June 5, 2025 • 37 mins
Episode 26: "Modern day Robin Hood"
Jason Wheeler, (A fresh) 47
San Bernardino, Ca
Green River, Ut
Denver, Co
It all started with a missed flight and a lost wallet that brought me to meet the the professional gambler Jason Wheeler.
On an unexpected cross-country bus journey. What began as small talk between strangers quickly revealed an extraordinary connection—both of us were traveling to visit sisters and to go with them to watch Kendrick Lamar & SZA perform. This chance meeting blossoms into a compelling two-part conversation spanning Utah to Denver, where Jason unveils his remarkable life story.
From his early days in Indianapolis' tough Haughville neighborhood, Jason reveals how he launched his first hustle in fourth grade. By seventh grade, he'd graduated to selling marijuana in Catholic school, leading to his first arrest.
Though basketball scholarships offered legitimate opportunities, Jason candidly admits, "I'm going to school for all the wrong reasons... I'm more about the hustle." While attending four different colleges and playing alongside future NBA stars, Jason continued building his drug enterprise.
After finding success as a mortgage broker until Obama-era regulations changed the industry, Jason entered what he calls the "scam game" operation that generated $10-15K daily.
At 40, Jason served his first prison sentence during COVID, where entrepreneurship continued with a lucrative K2 smuggling operation.
Now at 47, he's transformed his life with over 40 Airbnb properties and a powerful perspective: "I'm grateful for all the mishaps that I've had in my life. It kind of made me the person that I am."
The whole situation was an example of “everything happens for a reason.” Even if it was extremely stressful in the moments prior, I ended up making a friend and capturing a conversation with an authentic raw spirit of drive and opportunity. Can’t wait to finish up the part 3 of the podcast when I link with him in Fl or Atl. But either way, I’m glad to have met you Jason, thank you for your time and your generosity. And thanks for keeping it a buck. 💯 Shout out to Quality Control Music.
https://www.instagram.com/jason.wheeler.297?igsh=a3A4bjAzMmlmdHdj
H.w.h.p. , just bringing authentic conversations that reveal the extraordinary journeys of people walking among us everyday.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hello, welcome to the Hanging with Humans podcast.
This is your host, rj, andtoday I have a very special
guest.
Today I am with my new homie,jason Wheeler.
Jason, how you doing dog, howyou doing, how you doing RJizzle
?
Good, good bro, so man.
(00:23):
I wrote some things down becauseI feel like everything happens
for a reason, absolutely.
It's kind of one of themsituations that's going on right
now, you know, no doubt.
And so, with that being said,I'm going to introduce the
situation where Jason became ahomie overnight, it seems.
(00:45):
We, we jump on a bus togetherand now we're riding together.
So we over here in Utah, weover here, just posted up in
Utah and when I got on the busthis morning and I got on the
bus because I missed my flight,I missed my flight because I
lost my wallet.
But, to bring everything fullcircle, everything happens for a
(01:06):
reason.
So I struggled and I made itthrough and I got on that bus
and the first person I meet onthe bus, jason, jason Wheeler
right, yes, sir.
And we started talking aboutwhy we're in LA, what's going on
, and I was like hey, man, Icame down here to visit my
sister.
It's a tradition that we go seeKendrick Lamar together and he
(01:26):
was like stop playing, I'm herevisiting my sister, just like
that, just like that.
And it was crazy, like that wasthe first little introduction
to the whole thing, and I waslike you know cool people.
So we start talking aboutbusiness and entrepreneurship
and a little bit about theonline world and how you can
(01:48):
make money doing that.
And, jason, he's got a littlebit of a following on your
pretty big on Facebook, right,right, right.
So he's doing this thing onFacebook monetize.
If you want to go check outsome type of things, what type
of videos you be making on there, jason?
Speaker 3 (02:03):
You know I travel across the country so I got all
kind of shit making on there,jason.
Uh, you know I travel acrossthe country so I got all kind of
shit going on there.
All kind of shit uh, primarilyjust my daily life, yeah,
journeys and shit like that.
You know, and people tend togravitate towards the shit that
I put on facebook.
Nice like, I think I got like 26000 followers or some shit like
(02:24):
that posted a video, did 28million views about a couple
weeks ago damn of uh, my, mybest friend's grandfather in the
hospital getting that lap dancein his uh, in his bed, uh,
while uh getting treatmenttreated, and kind of took off
(02:46):
like wildfire.
I think it did like fucking amillion views in like four hours
and then just went crazy.
You set that up, yeah, yeah, Iwas the one recording.
You know what you're doing.
His grandfather was like man,we need some hoes in here.
Man.
He's like alright, we need somehoes in here, man.
(03:07):
He's like all right, say less.
My dude's grandfather is well,his father is a big name QC,
quality Control Music.
Shout out to QC.
Oh, that's who that was for?
Yeah, that was the president ofthe company's grandfather.
Speaker 1 (03:29):
Oh, dang, okay, okay.
Well, that was a nice thing foryou to put together.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely.
Well, jason, I'm really glad Igot to meet you.
We still got some mobbing to do.
Absolutely, we got to get downto Denver.
I got to get down to ColoradoSprings.
I'm headed to Indy.
That's where you're headed.
(03:50):
Yeah, we're going to try tomake this work on our trip where
we can finish a whole podcast,but it's going to be cool
because we're doing it in Utahand then we're going to be doing
it in Colorado.
I'm going to ask you a coupleof questions.
We'll kind of go and then we'llstop.
We got to jump back on the bus.
Cool, just pick up.
Cool, cool, cool.
Jason Wheeler, you're fortynine, bro, forty seven, forty
(04:13):
seven, forty seven, fresh fortyseven, and you're down visiting
your older sister.
Speaker 3 (04:19):
My younger sister.
Younger sister Two years young.
Speaker 1 (04:22):
Yeah, and you, you guys kind of shared a loss here
recently, right?
Speaker 3 (04:27):
Yeah, my mom passed away February 11th, so it's kind
of brought us a little closer.
You know I tend to probably seeher once a year.
Now I've seen her like fivetimes since.
Speaker 1 (04:38):
February yeah Dang, that's cool bro.
You got to keep that moving.
Speaker 3 (04:42):
Yeah, absolutely no doubt.
Speaker 1 (04:46):
Yeah, dang, that's cool bro, you gotta keep that
movie.
Yeah, absolutely love that.
Yeah, um.
So a couple things I wrote downoff top, where everything
happens for a reason um, mymissed flight, la las vegas,
denver, colorado.
Um, kendrick and sister andyou're the modern day robin hood
.
We'll get into that and howthat came to be, but we're going
(05:07):
to start with the early years.
You were born and raised where?
In Indianapolis, inIndianapolis.
Paint me a picture of what itlooks like growing up in
Indianapolis for you.
Speaker 3 (05:17):
I mean, you know Indianapolis.
I grew up in one of the tougherneighborhoods.
It's called Hallville Hallvillein the house Shout out.
So you know Indianapolis is adangerous place.
It's unfortunate to say that,but you know you have to be very
cognizant of your surroundingsand making sure you're hanging
with the right people, becauseyou know people don't really
(05:39):
understand that One bad decisionfrom hanging with the wrong
crowd can put you in apredicament that you don't want
to be in.
So I like to pride myself inhaving a good judge of character
, just like how I got a goodjudge of character with you, how
we met.
I was just always a coolmotherfucker.
(06:00):
You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1 (06:01):
For real.
Yeah, we got a thumbnail that'sgoing to be so lit.
That's a picture In SanBernardino.
In San Bernardino, baby, it'sclean.
So, yeah, you grew up in atough neighborhood.
Speaker 3 (06:16):
I grew up in a tough neighborhood but my mother was
able to provide.
It wasn't like I had a realstruggle.
You know what?
It wasn't like I had like areal struggle, yeah, but I
didn't live in the bestneighborhood but I always had
like the best shit, yeah, bestclothes, and all the moms keep
you far.
Moms kept kept me and my sister.
So that's what I had Threebrothers and sisters that passed
(06:40):
away prior to me being born.
Really, yeah, they passed awayin a house fire.
Oh man, three days beforeChristmas, wow, the guy that was
babysitting the kids went tosleep with a cigarette in his
mouth.
Somehow he makes it out Kidsdon't?
Whoa, yeah, that's crazy.
(07:00):
You know, things happen for areason, right, there could be a
possibility I wouldn't be hereif that didn't take place.
I mean, who knows?
That's really true, though.
Speaker 1 (07:09):
Very well could have been the case Like.
That's why I take everysituation that I'm in like
serious now Absolutely and Ireally look at like there's
going to be like at least twodifferent ways to look at it.
You know I'll ways to look atit To make the right decision
because, like you said, it's thewrong people.
The wrong decision can cost youyour life.
(07:29):
It can cost you more than thatOthers around you 100%.
I'm glad you said that, bro.
Speaker 3 (07:39):
You're a natural-born hustler.
Speaker 1 (07:40):
Natural-born hustler, it's in his blood.
Fourth grade grade bubble gum.
Three hundred dollar moment.
Get into that.
Speaker 3 (07:48):
This is the start of the hustle so, uh, I'm in the
fourth grade and I walk toschool every day.
So I walk past the Kroger's toget to school every day.
So every day I would go toKroger's and steal packs of
bubblegum.
So you know, I was the candyman.
Speaker 1 (08:07):
The candy man.
Speaker 3 (08:08):
Okay, and I'm making 30, 40 bucks a day, but I'm
spending all my money onbasketball cards and baseball
cards a day, but I'm spendingall my money on basketball cards
and baseball cards.
So one day I guess I was beinga little messy with it I had
like $300 in my room.
My mother was in my room, metone around.
Yeah, she discovered the $300and she was like what the hell
(08:33):
are you doing?
How do you get this money?
Yeah, so you know, I ended upkind of giving her the story.
There you have it.
I fell in love withentrepreneurship at a young age.
Speaker 1 (08:49):
Yeah, you listened on the bus to my podcast with my
boy Marco.
Yeah, that was dope, that wasdope.
Could you get like some of thesimilarities though?
Absolutely, yeah, yeah, yeah,absolutely.
That's why I can.
I can relate very much umseventh grade, um what happened
(09:10):
in seventh grade.
Speaker 3 (09:11):
So seventh grade is when I got caught up in the
lockers, yeah, yeah.
Yeah, seventh grade is when Istepped it up and said you know
what?
You know, I'll start sellingmarijuana.
So what I would do was buy myfirst little ounce of marijuana
and I wrote them all up injoints.
So I'm going to school everyday, I'm selling joints in a
(09:34):
Catholic school.
I'm going to school every day,I'm selling joints in that
Catholic school.
So you know, it kind of tookoff word of mouth Jason has all
the fucking weed, not all thebird.
So one day I go to school andthere's like five police
officers at my locker.
Speaker 2 (09:53):
I'm like what the hell, is this all about?
Speaker 3 (09:55):
So, needless to say, I was arrested in the seventh
grade, kicked out of schoolbecause I had a bunch of joints
in my locker.
Speaker 1 (10:04):
Got busted, so they kicked you out.
Yeah, I got kicked out of thatschool.
Speaker 3 (10:10):
There was a private school.
Yeah, yeah, my mother wasactually paying for me to go to
school in the seventh grade.
Speaker 1 (10:19):
So fast forward, you go, start playing, you get a
scholarship to basketball.
Speaker 3 (10:23):
When did you?
Speaker 1 (10:24):
start hooping, and what did that look like?
Speaker 3 (10:25):
I started hooping when I was six years old.
You know I was always prettygood.
Yeah, everybody liked the way Ihandled the ball, kind of like
some Kyrie type shit.
Yeah, I got the handle.
It was like the Kyrie beforeKyrie, nice.
So I got a scholarship to playout in Texas.
But unfortunately I'm going toschool for all the wrong reasons
.
Yep, at this point, like I'mmore about the hustle as opposed
(10:49):
to school, I don't think I wasjust going to school to satisfy,
to appease other people.
Yeah, yeah, yeah to school tosatisfy, to appease other people
, not for myself.
I ended up going to fourdifferent colleges and flunked
out of every one of them becauseat this point, like I said, I'm
selling big weed, kind ofgraduated from the one ounce of
(11:09):
joints to pounds and pounds andpounds.
Speaker 1 (11:13):
You even had the teachers trying to help you.
Absolutely.
They were giving me grades yeah, Pounds and pounds and pounds
and shit.
You even had like the teacherstrying to help you.
Speaker 3 (11:17):
Yeah, oh, absolutely.
Yeah, they were giving megrades classes that I didn't
even take.
Yeah, just so I could remain onthe team.
Yeah, after the next semester,same thing.
And then it's like, hey, jason,we can't have you back, I can't
keep putting my job on the linebecause you don't want to do
the right things in school.
So, yeah, uh.
So I I was in, uh, graysoncounty college, that's in
(11:40):
denison, denison sherman, texas,uh-huh.
Then I transferred to, uh, tovincennes university where, uh,
I played, and I had a guy, uh,you guys might be familiar with
his name, sean marion.
Oh, oh, yeah, the Matrix.
Yeah, he was on the team withme.
Yep, that's what's up.
Then, after that, I transferredto McNeese State University,
(12:08):
which is in Lake CharlesLouisiana, ended up playing with
a gentleman by the name of TRBrown.
He ended up starting backcourtwith Kobe Bryant.
Oh, damn, he was the D-LeagueMVP.
Nice, flunked out of there,went to Clark Atlanta University
in Atlanta, and I think when Iwent to Clark Atlanta, I went to
school.
(12:28):
I went to class the first day.
Yeah, the next two years that Iwas there, I was going to
school with weed in my book bag,as opposed to books.
Yeah, swap those out.
Speaker 1 (12:44):
I got a question, so you go Indiana, Louisiana, Texas
or what's the order.
Speaker 3 (12:52):
So it was Texas from Texas, back to Indiana, from
Indiana to Louisiana, then fromLouisiana to Atlanta.
Speaker 1 (13:03):
Okay, so I was just trying to see how you got to ATL
.
Okay, so it was school, school,right, school.
So how much different is it?
Was that your first time inAtlanta?
Yes, it was.
Yeah, so it had just recentlybeen my first.
I've been to Atlanta a coupleof times and I've seen my
partners.
I was telling you about, right,that was my first time, cause,
(13:25):
you hear, it's like blackHollywood, right?
Yeah absolutely, but I ain'tnever been there Right and I
went and I was like okay.
Speaker 2 (13:32):
Yeah, pretty much.
Speaker 1 (13:36):
You know?
Okay, yeah, pretty much youknow.
So what I'm saying is, sinceit's mostly black in atlanta,
was that like a?
Speaker 3 (13:40):
different shift for you because of that.
Uh, yeah, I mean yeah and insome ways, but the neighborhoods
that I hung out in indianapoliswere all black, so okay, it
wasn't, wasn't as big of aculture, more at home, like,
like, oh, absolutely no doubt,as opposed to being in, like
texas.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, that'swhat I was trying to do yeah,
yeah absolutely, yeah,absolutely for sure.
Oh, absolutely no doubt asopposed to being in, like Texas.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeahyeah.
Speaker 1 (13:59):
Yeah, absolutely yeah , for sure.
Um, so now we're in ATL.
Uh, you're done hoop, you'redone with school.
Yeah, I'm done with school anduh, when do you end up doing
mortgage broker?
Speaker 3 (14:17):
after I uh left atlanta, I became a mortgage
broker, uh, for a company calledrural united mortgage and chase
bank and, uh, you know, I waskind of like the king of that
shit.
Yeah, yeah, you have somehaters.
Yeah, they hate the fact thatyou know I was doing my thing
with it and I'm talking like, uh, a white guy on the phone and
people are like what the hell isgoing on with this dude.
(14:38):
I'd be on the phone like, heyBob, how are you?
This is Jason with Chase Bank.
Motherfuckers are like thismotherfucker is wild to the
point where the owners of thecompany, they, were like
everyone has to wear a suit towork, but Wheeler can wear
whatever the fuck he wants towear Because to work, but
Wheeler can wear whatever thefuck.
Speaker 1 (14:57):
He wants to wear Because you were him.
Speaker 2 (15:00):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:01):
So the special treatment came and then they
started hating yeah, yeah, yeah,it'd be like that.
Is there anything crucial inthe Atlanta years that you can
think of, because I know whereto go after mortgage, I mean.
Speaker 3 (15:14):
Atlanta years was like when I really took off that
you can think of because I knowwhere to go after mortgages,
but I mean atlanta, atlanta.
The atlanta years was like whenI really like took off with
like the marijuana.
Like I told you, I never wantedto uh sell like hardcore drugs
that harm people.
Yep, you know, I sold a lot ofcocaine, a lot of marijuana,
never anything like heroin ormeth, because I always wanted to
(15:35):
, you know, make people happy.
I sold shit to make peopleparty.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:40):
No, I didn't want that on my conscience.
Yeah, good on you.
That's why I said you're likethe robin hood, you'll find out,
he's the modern a lot ofdifferent ways.
Uh, so your 20s were like, theywere lit and like you said.
You said you get arrested 70times yeah, I've been arrested
probably 70 times.
Speaker 3 (15:57):
Does that start in your 20s?
uh, it starts from seventh grade, so a little bit in and out,
whatever, yeah but most of thethings I was getting locked up
consistently for driving onsuspended yeah, driving on
suspended, driving on suspended,driving on suspended, which
eventually, eventually, theydeemed me what they call a
habitual traffic offender, whichis a big deal in Indiana.
(16:20):
So you know, if you get to that, I guess to that level, I ran
out of tickets.
No more tickets.
Anytime I get arrested it'sprison time.
Now to this day, if I ever getstopped or pulled over for
driving in Indiana, it's anautomatic six years in prison.
How often do you go to Indiana?
(16:41):
I probably make it there onceevery two months or so.
My kids still live there.
They just move back there.
Okay, twin daughters and a sonit's 27.
Older son he was in LA.
Yeah, he was living in L,living in la with my sister for
like five years.
Speaker 1 (16:57):
Nice, yeah, um, you become the most ball and
mortgage broker.
Yeah, uh, then they starthating.
How does that end and where doyou go from?
How did you get in a scam gameall?
Speaker 3 (17:09):
right scam game, heavy, heavy, so, uh, so, um,
when I was uh doing my thingwith the mortgages, obama got an
office and he implemented allthis new shit.
Uh, it kind of weeded out a lotof good loan officers like
myself like, yeah, things as uh,you had to have a uh like a 650
(17:35):
credit score to be a broker.
I don't think at that time Iwas nowhere near a 650 credit
score Before or after Obama camein.
This is when Obama came in.
He implemented I think it wassomething like the CARE Act or
something.
So any score, well, youcouldn't be a law.
Their thought process on thiswas how can you help somebody
(17:55):
with their credit and you don'teven have the credit?
Yeah, I guess.
I mean, I guess that was theirthought process.
And then they also implementedlike a bunch of testing that,
prior to Obama coming in, Icould make you can take one
uniform test, yeah, to domortgages in all 50 states.
But then when he came in, heimplemented you have to be
(18:16):
licensed in every state, youhave to take a test in every
state.
Kind of weeded me out, becauseI was never like good with books
, but I was good with talking topeople.
I could add with when it cameto like, studying and shit.
That was just never my thing,obviously.
Speaker 1 (18:33):
See how flunked out every college I feel like just
everybody studying and shit,that was just never my thing,
obviously see how flunked outevery college yeah, I see that I
feel like just everybody isbetter in one lane than others.
Absolutely, Once you learn yourlearning style.
I had to realize because Ididn't have the good, really
great grades in high school, butmy teachers thought I was smart
(18:55):
but I could not pay attention.
I have bad adhd that was a partof it, but it's like I feel
like my creative side of mybrain wasn't getting anything at
all right so it like it's likekind of like fuck this shit why
are you doing this?
Speaker 3 (19:09):
you know you're not right right, right right
absolutely.
History is and, like sports, ispretty much all right right,
yeah, you know I don't knockanybody that you know wants to
further education.
Go to school, yeah, and ofcourse that's what all of our
parents want us to do.
You know, do everything thetraditional way, but sometimes,
uh, and like you said, doesn'twork for anybody exactly.
Speaker 1 (19:30):
School didn't really work for me, but other things
did yeah, there's the trades,there's the games, there's all
sorts of different shit.
You become a pro at this scamgame yeah, so.
Speaker 2 (19:44):
I'm in.
Speaker 3 (19:46):
So I'm in jail, oh yes, one of the many times that
I went to jail.
I was in jail and this Africanguy was like, hey man, he's
telling me about this scam andshit, and it's going in one ear
and out the other because I'mstill selling drugs.
That shit is all new to me.
I'm like, uh, whatever.
So I run into him at the mall,maybe like three months later,
(20:10):
and he was like, hey man,remember that shit I was telling
you about, about the creditcards?
And I'm like, yeah, what's upwith it?
And I'm like down at this point.
So not down, but you know I'mnot doing like my normal shit.
So, uh, he's like, hey man,take these four credit cards
inside Foot Locker.
And uh, go get you some shoes,he said.
(20:30):
He said get me three pair ofshoes and you get me one.
You get yourself one pair ofshoes.
And I'm like, all, all right,fucking.
So I go inside Foot Locker, Ihand him the first card, long
ass line.
The fucking card declines and Iwas like man, this stupid ass
shit.
Man, I don't even know why.
I'm even listening to this dude.
So I'm on my way getting outthe line.
I was like, fuck, it didn'treally want to show me all the
(21:01):
game, because he wanted me touse me as a peon, like he would
say hey, man, go in there andget, uh, 20 cartons of
cigarettes.
You can keep 10 or 5 or someshit like that.
I mean, you were still comingup, oh yeah.
Yeah, I was still getting stillfree shit for me, so you didn't
know how to do it.
Speaker 1 (21:18):
Yeah, yeah.
So how long did it take for youto soak up that game?
Speaker 3 (21:22):
I mean, I soaked it up immediately but he would
never show me, like I guess, thedifferent websites that you use
to obtain the information andshit like that, dark webpages,
yeah, yeah, yeah.
So you know, eventually we kindof split ways, but I still, I
still, I still appreciate himfor the for the knowledge he
gave, for sure, yeah, you got,you got to grow.
Speaker 1 (21:45):
Yeah yeah, so Growing individuals, and sometimes
you're going to get informationand shit and examples examples
Absolutely.
If you watch people I think wewere talking about that but just
watching people you can see howpeople act.
If you've seen it before, youkind of see it coming Right.
Speaker 3 (22:06):
So a lot of people were talking about doing this
shit.
But I was doing this shit forreal, scamming shit for real on
a heavy scale, to the pointwhere I'm getting lowe's orders
for fifty, sixty thousanddollars on depot and shit and
charger motherfuckers.
Speaker 1 (22:21):
So are you like word of mouth thing?
You're this own little businessthing that you went into
yourself to others when you'rejust out and about, or how did
these customers come to you for?
Speaker 3 (22:33):
that shit.
Well, a lot of people startedcoming to me because I was
filling up semis, so it kind ofspread like I'm literally making
$10,000, $15,000 Every day.
I walk outside Filling up 18wheelers.
At that time gas was.
Speaker 1 (22:50):
All right, we're going to pause this, we're going
to jump back on our bus andwe'll be back for Chapter 2 of
this exciting adventure, forsure With me and Jason.
Hello and welcome to Hangingwith Humans podcast part two.
I am, I'm back with Jason.
(23:17):
We are on our journey.
Hell of a journey.
Hell of a journey.
Speaker 3 (23:22):
Utah.
We made it through.
Speaker 1 (23:24):
Utah, and now we're here in Denver.
We are on our journey.
Hell of a journey, hell of ajourney.
Utah, we made it through Utahand now we're here in Denver and
your next stop is Indiana.
Speaker 2 (23:31):
right, that's, my ultimate stop is Indiana.
I've got another 22 hours.
Great to be there for all that.
Speaker 1 (23:40):
Man.
Speaker 2 (23:50):
So where we left off was mortgage broker and then
scam game breakdown.
So, yeah, I think we kind ofalready touched on the mortgage
broker stuff.
I think we kind of left offwith why I first started
scamming and this guy was tryingto make me work for him, that's
right.
When he soaked up my money yeah, I soaked up the money, I just
went out and got it on my ownand so when I first started
(24:10):
being out, I was getting tons ofcartons of cigarettes and I had
a warehouse of like 5,000cartons of cigarettes and I had
a couple of A-Rand guys comingto New York and give me $100 for
the party.
So after that, you know, itkind of fizzled out because I
(24:30):
burned it up.
I could go like to Sam's Cluband do 250 parties at a time.
So I'd go across the countryand probably do a Costco at
Sam's Club and do 250.
But it took me like a team ofpeople.
I could do it all by myself.
I had about 650 people growingit in, Okay, okay.
So after that kind of fizzledout.
(24:52):
You know, with that CMC man shechanged the state.
Just as many people that areout here doing it.
There are ten times as manypeople out there trying to
combat it.
Right, yeah, the's thetechnology.
Yeah, it's the technology.
I will tell you a secret,though the same people that are
trying to combat it are the samepeople that are leaking out
information for it to continueto go.
(25:14):
It's job security.
You know, you work in cyber,cyber, cyber police, whatever
you want to call it.
And you come to work and theysay, oh, we figured it out,
there's no more fraud.
Then you don't have a job.
So of course I was.
You know I'm not.
You got to be up in the ranksto get that type of job.
You know it still gets trickleddown to the smaller guys.
(25:37):
So after that, like I told you,I was still in those semis.
I was doing like 100 semis aday.
It was 15,000, 20,000 every day.
I woke up, but I was a gambler.
So I'm pissing it away becauseit's just as easy as it is for
me to make it.
I could lose it just as fast asI hear it.
(25:59):
I mean, tomorrow is going to bethe second day Until one day,
tomorrow, Until it's done.
Yeah, If you're still living inCanada, oh, I'm sorry.
Professional Professional no,no, no, I'm just working.
People are always going to wantto be here.
People are always going to wantto be here.
I don't know what's your mostfavorite place?
(26:21):
I don't know I'm not saying thatbecause I'm from Indiana.
I'm not even a Pacers fan.
I'm a Lakers fan.
I hate the Pacers, but they'recohesive, they have a good team.
They have a good team.
Solid, yeah, solid, that'sreally the trick to win a
championship.
It's not about one or two superstars, it's about a team that's
cohesive.
They have a lot of good players, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (26:45):
They're just a.
You have to start a team that'scalled Eastern.
Speaker 2 (26:48):
They have a lot of first-round pitchers?
Ah, absolutely, they just haveto hand out a team.
So you know, a big thing onthis podcast is mental health
ratings and the rest of us areable to learn, and I've talked
to a couple people on thepodcast about moving on to this
Right, and so you have.
You know, you said you've beenin the L a lot of times 40 years
goes by.
Yeah, Can you kind of tell mehow that kind of starts?
And then we're going to go intothe future and then the most
(27:10):
amazing story ever Okay, so youknow I go to prison 40 years old
first time in prison.
I did the jail time.
I did every sentence in prison.
I've been in jail some time.
It ever sentenced in prisontime and so I get there.
You know I went to prison witha bunch of money.
Perfect, because I'm making abunch of money in the streets.
(27:32):
So people understand, in prison, man, it's about the person
that has the money that can makethings happen, that can put
people people in places to makethis well with this chili oil.
You know what I'm saying.
So you know, I got in kinda gotmy feet wet.
Proper thing there was K2 spice,but as opposed to being on
(27:55):
leaves, it's on paper.
They sprayed it.
They sprayed it with paper andwe were getting it in books
Martin Noble's Martin Noble'sare very close.
They sprayed the paper and wewere getting it in books.
Yeah, books, barnes Noble.
Barnes Noble was very close.
I had a book sent to me andthen also had it sent to me in
my legal work.
Legal work was a good thing.
One sheet was five grand.
(28:16):
One sheet, five grand.
But was this already going downbefore you got it?
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,yeah, yeah.
Like I said, I told you earlierI had a friend who was leaving.
Yeah, that kind of gave me theroute, so to speak.
Yeah, you know, I tookadvantage of that, but go ahead,
(28:36):
and the rates were a big partof that.
Oh, absolutely Absolutely.
You were dealing with, I'mdealing with Arians, I'm dealing
with SKs, I'm dealing with allkinds of different affiliations,
but they don't care about thatshit when it comes to money.
When it comes to money, allthat race shit don't matter.
You know what I'm saying.
(28:56):
They still have their beliefs.
I'm still not going to besitting there having dinner with
them, but we're going topolitic this Absolutely.
So you know, I don't want tosay that my coach is a team kid,
but I'm just kind of like, thebiggest dude in my career is
this man Peyton.
So also, suboxone is reallygood Suboxone.
(29:17):
I saw a video out there.
Yeah, it's like a strip thatyou can get.
It gets $600 a strip for a box.
So the thing is, though, youknow, in prison, when you become
that guy, there's a lot of shitthat comes with that, because
when people get in debt with youso much, they just want to rat
(29:39):
you out so that you're no longeraround.
So you know, I was in the holeman for six months, and that's a
total of six months.
Yeah, but I've been a fuckingworld no bigger than this right
here, no bigger.
This is probably the exact sameplace no books, no phone, no
(30:05):
communication with the outsideworld.
You don't come outside and takea shower 30 minutes per day,
all you have to do is take it.
And you talked about Mitchell,though You're that industry.
This is during COVID.
This is during COVID, the homeCOVID.
I never witnessed the world onthe outside.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
(30:27):
So, yeah, it's tough.
You know what I'm saying.
But what does it give you?
Makes you stronger.
You know what I'm saying, so Iwould definitely attest to that
and I'm just as crazy as thismay sound, I'm kind of grateful
for that.
You know, I'm grateful for allthe mishaps that I've had in my
(30:50):
life.
It kind of made me the personthat I am.
You know what I'm saying Now.
I have 40-some-odd Airbnbs thatI'm dealing with.
You know that's pretty cool.
Yeah, you know that's prettycool.
Yeah, I had a friend when I wasin prison.
He was kind of like telling meabout this, but it's going to be
one area after another becauseI'm like I'm going to do this.
(31:11):
I don't know how to do it.
So when I got out of the UnitedStates, I told myself, yeah,
I'm too old to go back to prison.
This is a young man's school.
Prison's a young man's school.
That's for kids.
That's no place for a47-year-old.
That's a perfect school.
(31:32):
It's a good school and I canshow you a lot of your name.
That's my goal.
I'll say by the end of 2026,that's when goal.
I would say 2026, that's what Iwould do.
And you have one here, threeright here in the center, three
right here in the center.
Yep, all of these, so 37 ofthem are at the same center, but
(32:02):
they're all connected.
I'm sorry, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, the drum mission, I got it,
okay.
So eventually there came a timewhere the books and shit got cut
(32:23):
off because of COVID.
They weren't letting us getlegal, they were copying our
legal bail.
They were also uh, they calledthem whatever.
Yeah, well, they're callingthem.
And then I guess Barnes Noblewasn't doing it.
Well, if you didn't use theircode, I don't even know if they
sealed the operation, butwhatever it was came up with the
(32:44):
idea let's give the shootingsdrones.
So I got about four or fivegood ones with the drone.
They were coming like literallyright on the books.
I had a hole in my window thatI could seal back up.
Nobody knew what was going onand I reached in the air and I
ran the shit out of the drone,what I was doing.
I reached out to my friend andshe got me a job.
(33:06):
I worked about four or fivetimes and then I got an holiday
man and they put up some newtechnology.
They detected the drones inthat space and they were trying
to set it back in the day.
I was like, man, this is cool.
This is going to happen forever.
Absolutely, absolutely.
I'm a student of art at all.
(33:27):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's kind ofwhat I've been seeing.
Do you talk to people about theimportance of health and other
resources?
Absolutely, absolutely.
I never had a bad conscienceabout scanning, first of all,
people information.
But I'm not just using this formyself.
(33:50):
I'm using this to help.
I'm feeding people, I'm housingpeople.
I'm doing more stuff for otherpeople than myself, even when
I'm filling up a semi.
This is giving people half offgas.
All this shit.
It's like robbing PeterCrickoff.
I'm filling up the semi's andshit.
This is giving people half offthe fucking gas.
All this shit.
It's like robbing Peter Crickoff of your head.
I never frowned upon it becauseI knew that, ultimately, the
(34:16):
bank is on personal rules andI'm here for fucking under the
bank.
I mean, it's a real thing,right?
Yeah, yeah, I don't Sorry.
Oh, okay, sorry about that.
So the important thing is superimportant.
I that's why I want to do this.
(34:37):
Yeah, yeah, I think that'ssuper important.
I think we're going to shift alittle bit, because we were
talking about it, it was online.
We were looking at the double-Asub 2010.
Big Sean yeah, always, still,I'm telling you, dear friend,
(34:58):
dear friend.
So he was a real big guy man.
He had some heart and soul.
First time I met him, he wasjust being a giving person.
I didn't even know that they'ddo one Bought me a bottle of
wine and all that kind of shit.
I'm like damn.
So he was reluctant of tellingme who he was.
(35:18):
So somehow we got down to it,showed me his story and showing
me him on the cover of XXL withmaybe the greatest rap class
ever, with Rick Ross.
Yeah, unfortunately, we all tooka turn down the wrong road.
We all went in the wrongdirection.
(35:59):
I'm anxious to see how hisstory ends.
Is he a smart enough guy toreally get the story in the way
he wants it to?
I feel like everything else isgoing to be in that absolute
opinion.
It's just how bad you want itto be.
It is, it is.
And then put yourself in theiradvisors.
Absolutely, that's veryimportant.
You are a part of your advisor,like if you want to stay in the
(36:21):
ghetto all day.
Just go to the ghetto shop.
You know what I'm saying.
If you want to find your life,come out here to Denver and see
some new shit.
It's simple, you'll get that.
This is what you get.
I don't know.
We're probably getting close.
Let me just say this real quickwe are out.
Hello, welcome to the Hanging with Humans podcast.
This is your host, rj, andtoday I have a very special
guest.
Today I am with my new homie,jason Wheeler.
Jason, how you doing dog, howyou doing, how you doing RJizzle
?
Good, good bro, so man.
(00:23):
I wrote some things down becauseI feel like everything happens
for a reason, absolutely.
It's kind of one of themsituations that's going on right
now, you know, no doubt.
And so, with that being said,I'm going to introduce the
situation where Jason became ahomie overnight, it seems.
(00:45):
We, we jump on a bus togetherand now we're riding together.
So we over here in Utah, weover here, just posted up in
Utah and when I got on the busthis morning and I got on the
bus because I missed my flight,I missed my flight because I
lost my wallet.
But, to bring everything fullcircle, everything happens for a
(01:06):
reason.
So I struggled and I made itthrough and I got on that bus
and the first person I meet onthe bus, jason, jason Wheeler
right, yes, sir.
And we started talking aboutwhy we're in LA, what's going on
, and I was like hey, man, Icame down here to visit my
sister.
It's a tradition that we go seeKendrick Lamar together and he
(01:26):
was like stop playing, I'm herevisiting my sister, just like
that, just like that.
And it was crazy, like that wasthe first little introduction
to the whole thing, and I waslike you know cool people.
So we start talking aboutbusiness and entrepreneurship
and a little bit about theonline world and how you can
(01:48):
make money doing that.
And, jason, he's got a littlebit of a following on your
pretty big on Facebook, right,right, right.
So he's doing this thing onFacebook monetize.
If you want to go check outsome type of things, what type
of videos you be making on there, jason?
Speaker 3 (02:03):
You know I travel across the country so I got all
kind of shit making on there,jason.
Uh, you know I travel acrossthe country so I got all kind of
shit going on there.
All kind of shit uh, primarilyjust my daily life, yeah,
journeys and shit like that.
You know, and people tend togravitate towards the shit that
I put on facebook.
Nice like, I think I got like 26000 followers or some shit like
(02:24):
that posted a video, did 28million views about a couple
weeks ago damn of uh, my, mybest friend's grandfather in the
hospital getting that lap dancein his uh, in his bed, uh,
while uh getting treatmenttreated, and kind of took off
(02:46):
like wildfire.
I think it did like fucking amillion views in like four hours
and then just went crazy.
You set that up, yeah, yeah, Iwas the one recording.
You know what you're doing.
His grandfather was like man,we need some hoes in here.
Man.
He's like alright, we need somehoes in here, man.
(03:07):
He's like all right, say less.
My dude's grandfather is well,his father is a big name QC,
quality Control Music.
Shout out to QC.
Oh, that's who that was for?
Yeah, that was the president ofthe company's grandfather.
Speaker 1 (03:29):
Oh, dang, okay, okay.
Well, that was a nice thing foryou to put together.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely.
Well, jason, I'm really glad Igot to meet you.
We still got some mobbing to do.
Absolutely, we got to get downto Denver.
I got to get down to ColoradoSprings.
I'm headed to Indy.
That's where you're headed.
(03:50):
Yeah, we're going to try tomake this work on our trip where
we can finish a whole podcast,but it's going to be cool
because we're doing it in Utahand then we're going to be doing
it in Colorado.
I'm going to ask you a coupleof questions.
We'll kind of go and then we'llstop.
We got to jump back on the bus.
Cool, just pick up.
Cool, cool, cool.
Jason Wheeler, you're fortynine, bro, forty seven, forty
(04:13):
seven, forty seven, fresh fortyseven, and you're down visiting
your older sister.
Speaker 3 (04:19):
My younger sister.
Younger sister Two years young.
Speaker 1 (04:22):
Yeah, and you, you guys kind of shared a loss here
recently, right?
Speaker 3 (04:27):
Yeah, my mom passed away February 11th, so it's kind
of brought us a little closer.
You know I tend to probably seeher once a year.
Now I've seen her like fivetimes since.
Speaker 1 (04:38):
February yeah Dang, that's cool bro.
You got to keep that moving.
Speaker 3 (04:42):
Yeah, absolutely no doubt.
Speaker 1 (04:46):
Yeah, dang, that's cool bro, you gotta keep that
movie.
Yeah, absolutely love that.
Yeah, um.
So a couple things I wrote downoff top, where everything
happens for a reason um, mymissed flight, la las vegas,
denver, colorado.
Um, kendrick and sister andyou're the modern day robin hood
.
We'll get into that and howthat came to be, but we're going
(05:07):
to start with the early years.
You were born and raised where?
In Indianapolis, inIndianapolis.
Paint me a picture of what itlooks like growing up in
Indianapolis for you.
Speaker 3 (05:17):
I mean, you know Indianapolis.
I grew up in one of the tougherneighborhoods.
It's called Hallville Hallvillein the house Shout out.
So you know Indianapolis is adangerous place.
It's unfortunate to say that,but you know you have to be very
cognizant of your surroundingsand making sure you're hanging
with the right people, becauseyou know people don't really
(05:39):
understand that One bad decisionfrom hanging with the wrong
crowd can put you in apredicament that you don't want
to be in.
So I like to pride myself inhaving a good judge of character
, just like how I got a goodjudge of character with you, how
we met.
I was just always a coolmotherfucker.
(06:00):
You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1 (06:01):
For real.
Yeah, we got a thumbnail that'sgoing to be so lit.
That's a picture In SanBernardino.
In San Bernardino, baby, it'sclean.
So, yeah, you grew up in atough neighborhood.
Speaker 3 (06:16):
I grew up in a tough neighborhood but my mother was
able to provide.
It wasn't like I had a realstruggle.
You know what?
It wasn't like I had like areal struggle, yeah, but I
didn't live in the bestneighborhood but I always had
like the best shit, yeah, bestclothes, and all the moms keep
you far.
Moms kept kept me and my sister.
So that's what I had Threebrothers and sisters that passed
(06:40):
away prior to me being born.
Really, yeah, they passed awayin a house fire.
Oh man, three days beforeChristmas, wow, the guy that was
babysitting the kids went tosleep with a cigarette in his
mouth.
Somehow he makes it out Kidsdon't?
Whoa, yeah, that's crazy.
(07:00):
You know, things happen for areason, right, there could be a
possibility I wouldn't be hereif that didn't take place.
I mean, who knows?
That's really true, though.
Speaker 1 (07:09):
Very well could have been the case Like.
That's why I take everysituation that I'm in like
serious now Absolutely and Ireally look at like there's
going to be like at least twodifferent ways to look at it.
You know I'll ways to look atit To make the right decision
because, like you said, it's thewrong people.
The wrong decision can cost youyour life.
(07:29):
It can cost you more than thatOthers around you 100%.
I'm glad you said that, bro.
Speaker 3 (07:39):
You're a natural-born hustler.
Speaker 1 (07:40):
Natural-born hustler, it's in his blood.
Fourth grade grade bubble gum.
Three hundred dollar moment.
Get into that.
Speaker 3 (07:48):
This is the start of the hustle so, uh, I'm in the
fourth grade and I walk toschool every day.
So I walk past the Kroger's toget to school every day.
So every day I would go toKroger's and steal packs of
bubblegum.
So you know, I was the candyman.
Speaker 1 (08:07):
The candy man.
Speaker 3 (08:08):
Okay, and I'm making 30, 40 bucks a day, but I'm
spending all my money onbasketball cards and baseball
cards a day, but I'm spendingall my money on basketball cards
and baseball cards.
So one day I guess I was beinga little messy with it I had
like $300 in my room.
My mother was in my room, metone around.
Yeah, she discovered the $300and she was like what the hell
(08:33):
are you doing?
How do you get this money?
Yeah, so you know, I ended upkind of giving her the story.
There you have it.
I fell in love withentrepreneurship at a young age.
Speaker 1 (08:49):
Yeah, you listened on the bus to my podcast with my
boy Marco.
Yeah, that was dope, that wasdope.
Could you get like some of thesimilarities though?
Absolutely, yeah, yeah, yeah,absolutely.
That's why I can.
I can relate very much umseventh grade, um what happened
(09:10):
in seventh grade.
Speaker 3 (09:11):
So seventh grade is when I got caught up in the
lockers, yeah, yeah.
Yeah, seventh grade is when Istepped it up and said you know
what?
You know, I'll start sellingmarijuana.
So what I would do was buy myfirst little ounce of marijuana
and I wrote them all up injoints.
So I'm going to school everyday, I'm selling joints in a
(09:34):
Catholic school.
I'm going to school every day,I'm selling joints in that
Catholic school.
So you know, it kind of tookoff word of mouth Jason has all
the fucking weed, not all thebird.
So one day I go to school andthere's like five police
officers at my locker.
Speaker 2 (09:53):
I'm like what the hell, is this all about?
Speaker 3 (09:55):
So, needless to say, I was arrested in the seventh
grade, kicked out of schoolbecause I had a bunch of joints
in my locker.
Speaker 1 (10:04):
Got busted, so they kicked you out.
Yeah, I got kicked out of thatschool.
Speaker 3 (10:10):
There was a private school.
Yeah, yeah, my mother wasactually paying for me to go to
school in the seventh grade.
Speaker 1 (10:19):
So fast forward, you go, start playing, you get a
scholarship to basketball.
Speaker 3 (10:23):
When did you?
Speaker 1 (10:24):
start hooping, and what did that look like?
Speaker 3 (10:25):
I started hooping when I was six years old.
You know I was always prettygood.
Yeah, everybody liked the way Ihandled the ball, kind of like
some Kyrie type shit.
Yeah, I got the handle.
It was like the Kyrie beforeKyrie, nice.
So I got a scholarship to playout in Texas.
But unfortunately I'm going toschool for all the wrong reasons
.
Yep, at this point, like I'mmore about the hustle as opposed
(10:49):
to school, I don't think I wasjust going to school to satisfy,
to appease other people.
Yeah, yeah, yeah to school tosatisfy, to appease other people
, not for myself.
I ended up going to fourdifferent colleges and flunked
out of every one of them becauseat this point, like I said, I'm
selling big weed, kind ofgraduated from the one ounce of
(11:09):
joints to pounds and pounds andpounds.
Speaker 1 (11:13):
You even had the teachers trying to help you.
Absolutely.
They were giving me grades yeah, Pounds and pounds and pounds
and shit.
You even had like the teacherstrying to help you.
Speaker 3 (11:17):
Yeah, oh, absolutely.
Yeah, they were giving megrades classes that I didn't
even take.
Yeah, just so I could remain onthe team.
Yeah, after the next semester,same thing.
And then it's like, hey, jason,we can't have you back, I can't
keep putting my job on the linebecause you don't want to do
the right things in school.
So, yeah, uh.
So I I was in, uh, graysoncounty college, that's in
(11:40):
denison, denison sherman, texas,uh-huh.
Then I transferred to, uh, tovincennes university where, uh,
I played, and I had a guy, uh,you guys might be familiar with
his name, sean marion.
Oh, oh, yeah, the Matrix.
Yeah, he was on the team withme.
Yep, that's what's up.
Then, after that, I transferredto McNeese State University,
(12:08):
which is in Lake CharlesLouisiana, ended up playing with
a gentleman by the name of TRBrown.
He ended up starting backcourtwith Kobe Bryant.
Oh, damn, he was the D-LeagueMVP.
Nice, flunked out of there,went to Clark Atlanta University
in Atlanta, and I think when Iwent to Clark Atlanta, I went to
school.
(12:28):
I went to class the first day.
Yeah, the next two years that Iwas there, I was going to
school with weed in my book bag,as opposed to books.
Yeah, swap those out.
Speaker 1 (12:44):
I got a question, so you go Indiana, Louisiana, Texas
or what's the order.
Speaker 3 (12:52):
So it was Texas from Texas, back to Indiana, from
Indiana to Louisiana, then fromLouisiana to Atlanta.
Speaker 1 (13:03):
Okay, so I was just trying to see how you got to ATL
.
Okay, so it was school, school,right, school.
So how much different is it?
Was that your first time inAtlanta?
Yes, it was.
Yeah, so it had just recentlybeen my first.
I've been to Atlanta a coupleof times and I've seen my
partners.
I was telling you about, right,that was my first time, cause,
(13:25):
you hear, it's like blackHollywood, right?
Yeah absolutely, but I ain'tnever been there Right and I
went and I was like okay.
Speaker 2 (13:32):
Yeah, pretty much.
Speaker 1 (13:36):
You know?
Okay, yeah, pretty much youknow.
So what I'm saying is, sinceit's mostly black in atlanta,
was that like a?
Speaker 3 (13:40):
different shift for you because of that.
Uh, yeah, I mean yeah and insome ways, but the neighborhoods
that I hung out in indianapoliswere all black, so okay, it
wasn't, wasn't as big of aculture, more at home, like,
like, oh, absolutely no doubt,as opposed to being in, like
texas.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, that'swhat I was trying to do yeah,
yeah absolutely, yeah,absolutely for sure.
Oh, absolutely no doubt asopposed to being in, like Texas.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeahyeah.
Speaker 1 (13:59):
Yeah, absolutely yeah , for sure.
Um, so now we're in ATL.
Uh, you're done hoop, you'redone with school.
Yeah, I'm done with school anduh, when do you end up doing
mortgage broker?
Speaker 3 (14:17):
after I uh left atlanta, I became a mortgage
broker, uh, for a company calledrural united mortgage and chase
bank and, uh, you know, I waskind of like the king of that
shit.
Yeah, yeah, you have somehaters.
Yeah, they hate the fact thatyou know I was doing my thing
with it and I'm talking like, uh, a white guy on the phone and
people are like what the hell isgoing on with this dude.
(14:38):
I'd be on the phone like, heyBob, how are you?
This is Jason with Chase Bank.
Motherfuckers are like thismotherfucker is wild to the
point where the owners of thecompany, they, were like
everyone has to wear a suit towork, but Wheeler can wear
whatever the fuck he wants towear Because to work, but
Wheeler can wear whatever thefuck.
Speaker 1 (14:57):
He wants to wear Because you were him.
Speaker 2 (15:00):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:01):
So the special treatment came and then they
started hating yeah, yeah, yeah,it'd be like that.
Is there anything crucial inthe Atlanta years that you can
think of, because I know whereto go after mortgage, I mean.
Speaker 3 (15:14):
Atlanta years was like when I really took off that
you can think of because I knowwhere to go after mortgages,
but I mean atlanta, atlanta.
The atlanta years was like whenI really like took off with
like the marijuana.
Like I told you, I never wantedto uh sell like hardcore drugs
that harm people.
Yep, you know, I sold a lot ofcocaine, a lot of marijuana,
never anything like heroin ormeth, because I always wanted to
(15:35):
, you know, make people happy.
I sold shit to make peopleparty.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:40):
No, I didn't want that on my conscience.
Yeah, good on you.
That's why I said you're likethe robin hood, you'll find out,
he's the modern a lot ofdifferent ways.
Uh, so your 20s were like, theywere lit and like you said.
You said you get arrested 70times yeah, I've been arrested
probably 70 times.
Speaker 3 (15:57):
Does that start in your 20s?
uh, it starts from seventh grade, so a little bit in and out,
whatever, yeah but most of thethings I was getting locked up
consistently for driving onsuspended yeah, driving on
suspended, driving on suspended,driving on suspended, which
eventually, eventually, theydeemed me what they call a
habitual traffic offender, whichis a big deal in Indiana.
(16:20):
So you know, if you get to that, I guess to that level, I ran
out of tickets.
No more tickets.
Anytime I get arrested it'sprison time.
Now to this day, if I ever getstopped or pulled over for
driving in Indiana, it's anautomatic six years in prison.
How often do you go to Indiana?
(16:41):
I probably make it there onceevery two months or so.
My kids still live there.
They just move back there.
Okay, twin daughters and a sonit's 27.
Older son he was in LA.
Yeah, he was living in L,living in la with my sister for
like five years.
Speaker 1 (16:57):
Nice, yeah, um, you become the most ball and
mortgage broker.
Yeah, uh, then they starthating.
How does that end and where doyou go from?
How did you get in a scam gameall?
Speaker 3 (17:09):
right scam game, heavy, heavy, so, uh, so, um,
when I was uh doing my thingwith the mortgages, obama got an
office and he implemented allthis new shit.
Uh, it kind of weeded out a lotof good loan officers like
myself like, yeah, things as uh,you had to have a uh like a 650
(17:35):
credit score to be a broker.
I don't think at that time Iwas nowhere near a 650 credit
score Before or after Obama camein.
This is when Obama came in.
He implemented I think it wassomething like the CARE Act or
something.
So any score, well, youcouldn't be a law.
Their thought process on thiswas how can you help somebody
(17:55):
with their credit and you don'teven have the credit?
Yeah, I guess.
I mean, I guess that was theirthought process.
And then they also implementedlike a bunch of testing that,
prior to Obama coming in, Icould make you can take one
uniform test, yeah, to domortgages in all 50 states.
But then when he came in, heimplemented you have to be
(18:16):
licensed in every state, youhave to take a test in every
state.
Kind of weeded me out, becauseI was never like good with books
, but I was good with talking topeople.
I could add with when it cameto like, studying and shit.
That was just never my thing,obviously.
Speaker 1 (18:33):
See how flunked out every college I feel like just
everybody studying and shit,that was just never my thing,
obviously see how flunked outevery college yeah, I see that I
feel like just everybody isbetter in one lane than others.
Absolutely, Once you learn yourlearning style.
I had to realize because Ididn't have the good, really
great grades in high school, butmy teachers thought I was smart
(18:55):
but I could not pay attention.
I have bad adhd that was a partof it, but it's like I feel
like my creative side of mybrain wasn't getting anything at
all right so it like it's likekind of like fuck this shit why
are you doing this?
Speaker 3 (19:09):
you know you're not right right, right right
absolutely.
History is and, like sports, ispretty much all right right,
yeah, you know I don't knockanybody that you know wants to
further education.
Go to school, yeah, and ofcourse that's what all of our
parents want us to do.
You know, do everything thetraditional way, but sometimes,
uh, and like you said, doesn'twork for anybody exactly.
Speaker 1 (19:30):
School didn't really work for me, but other things
did yeah, there's the trades,there's the games, there's all
sorts of different shit.
You become a pro at this scamgame yeah, so.
Speaker 2 (19:44):
I'm in.
Speaker 3 (19:46):
So I'm in jail, oh yes, one of the many times that
I went to jail.
I was in jail and this Africanguy was like, hey man, he's
telling me about this scam andshit, and it's going in one ear
and out the other because I'mstill selling drugs.
That shit is all new to me.
I'm like, uh, whatever.
So I run into him at the mall,maybe like three months later,
(20:10):
and he was like, hey man,remember that shit I was telling
you about, about the creditcards?
And I'm like, yeah, what's upwith it?
And I'm like down at this point.
So not down, but you know I'mnot doing like my normal shit.
So, uh, he's like, hey man,take these four credit cards
inside Foot Locker.
And uh, go get you some shoes,he said.
(20:30):
He said get me three pair ofshoes and you get me one.
You get yourself one pair ofshoes.
And I'm like, all, all right,fucking.
So I go inside Foot Locker, Ihand him the first card, long
ass line.
The fucking card declines and Iwas like man, this stupid ass
shit.
Man, I don't even know why.
I'm even listening to this dude.
So I'm on my way getting outthe line.
I was like, fuck, it didn'treally want to show me all the
(21:01):
game, because he wanted me touse me as a peon, like he would
say hey, man, go in there andget, uh, 20 cartons of
cigarettes.
You can keep 10 or 5 or someshit like that.
I mean, you were still comingup, oh yeah.
Yeah, I was still getting stillfree shit for me, so you didn't
know how to do it.
Speaker 1 (21:18):
Yeah, yeah.
So how long did it take for youto soak up that game?
Speaker 3 (21:22):
I mean, I soaked it up immediately but he would
never show me, like I guess, thedifferent websites that you use
to obtain the information andshit like that, dark webpages,
yeah, yeah, yeah.
So you know, eventually we kindof split ways, but I still, I
still, I still appreciate himfor the for the knowledge he
gave, for sure, yeah, you got,you got to grow.
Speaker 1 (21:45):
Yeah yeah, so Growing individuals, and sometimes
you're going to get informationand shit and examples examples
Absolutely.
If you watch people I think wewere talking about that but just
watching people you can see howpeople act.
If you've seen it before, youkind of see it coming Right.
Speaker 3 (22:06):
So a lot of people were talking about doing this
shit.
But I was doing this shit forreal, scamming shit for real on
a heavy scale, to the pointwhere I'm getting lowe's orders
for fifty, sixty thousanddollars on depot and shit and
charger motherfuckers.
Speaker 1 (22:21):
So are you like word of mouth thing?
You're this own little businessthing that you went into
yourself to others when you'rejust out and about, or how did
these customers come to you for?
Speaker 3 (22:33):
that shit.
Well, a lot of people startedcoming to me because I was
filling up semis, so it kind ofspread like I'm literally making
$10,000, $15,000 Every day.
I walk outside Filling up 18wheelers.
At that time gas was.
Speaker 1 (22:50):
All right, we're going to pause this, we're going
to jump back on our bus andwe'll be back for Chapter 2 of
this exciting adventure, forsure With me and Jason.
Hello and welcome to Hangingwith Humans podcast part two.
I am, I'm back with Jason.
(23:17):
We are on our journey.
Hell of a journey.
Hell of a journey.
Speaker 3 (23:22):
Utah.
We made it through.
Speaker 1 (23:24):
Utah, and now we're here in Denver.
We are on our journey.
Hell of a journey, hell of ajourney.
Utah, we made it through Utahand now we're here in Denver and
your next stop is Indiana.
Speaker 2 (23:31):
right, that's, my ultimate stop is Indiana.
I've got another 22 hours.
Great to be there for all that.
Speaker 1 (23:40):
Man.
Speaker 2 (23:50):
So where we left off was mortgage broker and then
scam game breakdown.
So, yeah, I think we kind ofalready touched on the mortgage
broker stuff.
I think we kind of left offwith why I first started
scamming and this guy was tryingto make me work for him, that's
right.
When he soaked up my money yeah, I soaked up the money, I just
went out and got it on my ownand so when I first started
(24:10):
being out, I was getting tons ofcartons of cigarettes and I had
a warehouse of like 5,000cartons of cigarettes and I had
a couple of A-Rand guys comingto New York and give me $100 for
the party.
So after that, you know, itkind of fizzled out because I
(24:30):
burned it up.
I could go like to Sam's Cluband do 250 parties at a time.
So I'd go across the countryand probably do a Costco at
Sam's Club and do 250.
But it took me like a team ofpeople.
I could do it all by myself.
I had about 650 people growingit in, Okay, okay.
So after that kind of fizzledout.
(24:52):
You know, with that CMC man shechanged the state.
Just as many people that areout here doing it.
There are ten times as manypeople out there trying to
combat it.
Right, yeah, the's thetechnology.
Yeah, it's the technology.
I will tell you a secret,though the same people that are
trying to combat it are the samepeople that are leaking out
information for it to continueto go.
(25:14):
It's job security.
You know, you work in cyber,cyber, cyber police, whatever
you want to call it.
And you come to work and theysay, oh, we figured it out,
there's no more fraud.
Then you don't have a job.
So of course I was.
You know I'm not.
You got to be up in the ranksto get that type of job.
You know it still gets trickleddown to the smaller guys.
(25:37):
So after that, like I told you,I was still in those semis.
I was doing like 100 semis aday.
It was 15,000, 20,000 every day.
I woke up, but I was a gambler.
So I'm pissing it away becauseit's just as easy as it is for
me to make it.
I could lose it just as fast asI hear it.
(25:59):
I mean, tomorrow is going to bethe second day Until one day,
tomorrow, Until it's done.
Yeah, If you're still living inCanada, oh, I'm sorry.
Professional Professional no,no, no, I'm just working.
People are always going to wantto be here.
People are always going to wantto be here.
I don't know what's your mostfavorite place?
(26:21):
I don't know I'm not saying thatbecause I'm from Indiana.
I'm not even a Pacers fan.
I'm a Lakers fan.
I hate the Pacers, but they'recohesive, they have a good team.
They have a good team.
Solid, yeah, solid, that'sreally the trick to win a
championship.
It's not about one or two superstars, it's about a team that's
cohesive.
They have a lot of good players, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (26:45):
They're just a.
You have to start a team that'scalled Eastern.
Speaker 2 (26:48):
They have a lot of first-round pitchers?
Ah, absolutely, they just haveto hand out a team.
So you know, a big thing onthis podcast is mental health
ratings and the rest of us areable to learn, and I've talked
to a couple people on thepodcast about moving on to this
Right, and so you have.
You know, you said you've beenin the L a lot of times 40 years
goes by.
Yeah, Can you kind of tell mehow that kind of starts?
And then we're going to go intothe future and then the most
(27:10):
amazing story ever Okay, so youknow I go to prison 40 years old
first time in prison.
I did the jail time.
I did every sentence in prison.
I've been in jail some time.
It ever sentenced in prisontime and so I get there.
You know I went to prison witha bunch of money.
Perfect, because I'm making abunch of money in the streets.
(27:32):
So people understand, in prison, man, it's about the person
that has the money that can makethings happen, that can put
people people in places to makethis well with this chili oil.
You know what I'm saying.
So you know, I got in kinda gotmy feet wet.
Proper thing there was K2 spice,but as opposed to being on
(27:55):
leaves, it's on paper.
They sprayed it.
They sprayed it with paper andwe were getting it in books
Martin Noble's Martin Noble'sare very close.
They sprayed the paper and wewere getting it in books.
Yeah, books, barnes Noble.
Barnes Noble was very close.
I had a book sent to me andthen also had it sent to me in
my legal work.
Legal work was a good thing.
One sheet was five grand.
(28:16):
One sheet, five grand.
But was this already going downbefore you got it?
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,yeah, yeah.
Like I said, I told you earlierI had a friend who was leaving.
Yeah, that kind of gave me theroute, so to speak.
Yeah, you know, I tookadvantage of that, but go ahead,
(28:36):
and the rates were a big partof that.
Oh, absolutely Absolutely.
You were dealing with, I'mdealing with Arians, I'm dealing
with SKs, I'm dealing with allkinds of different affiliations,
but they don't care about thatshit when it comes to money.
When it comes to money, allthat race shit don't matter.
You know what I'm saying.
(28:56):
They still have their beliefs.
I'm still not going to besitting there having dinner with
them, but we're going topolitic this Absolutely.
So you know, I don't want tosay that my coach is a team kid,
but I'm just kind of like, thebiggest dude in my career is
this man Peyton.
So also, suboxone is reallygood Suboxone.
(29:17):
I saw a video out there.
Yeah, it's like a strip thatyou can get.
It gets $600 a strip for a box.
So the thing is, though, youknow, in prison, when you become
that guy, there's a lot of shitthat comes with that, because
when people get in debt with youso much, they just want to rat
(29:39):
you out so that you're no longeraround.
So you know, I was in the holeman for six months, and that's a
total of six months.
Yeah, but I've been a fuckingworld no bigger than this right
here, no bigger.
This is probably the exact sameplace no books, no phone, no
(30:05):
communication with the outsideworld.
You don't come outside and takea shower 30 minutes per day,
all you have to do is take it.
And you talked about Mitchell,though You're that industry.
This is during COVID.
This is during COVID, the homeCOVID.
I never witnessed the world onthe outside.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
(30:27):
So, yeah, it's tough.
You know what I'm saying.
But what does it give you?
Makes you stronger.
You know what I'm saying, so Iwould definitely attest to that
and I'm just as crazy as thismay sound, I'm kind of grateful
for that.
You know, I'm grateful for allthe mishaps that I've had in my
(30:50):
life.
It kind of made me the personthat I am.
You know what I'm saying Now.
I have 40-some-odd Airbnbs thatI'm dealing with.
You know that's pretty cool.
Yeah, you know that's prettycool.
Yeah, I had a friend when I wasin prison.
He was kind of like telling meabout this, but it's going to be
one area after another becauseI'm like I'm going to do this.
(31:11):
I don't know how to do it.
So when I got out of the UnitedStates, I told myself, yeah,
I'm too old to go back to prison.
This is a young man's school.
Prison's a young man's school.
That's for kids.
That's no place for a47-year-old.
That's a perfect school.
(31:32):
It's a good school and I canshow you a lot of your name.
That's my goal.
I'll say by the end of 2026,that's when goal.
I would say 2026, that's what Iwould do.
And you have one here, threeright here in the center, three
right here in the center.
Yep, all of these, so 37 ofthem are at the same center, but
(32:02):
they're all connected.
I'm sorry, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, the drum mission, I got it,
okay.
So eventually there came a timewhere the books and shit got cut
(32:23):
off because of COVID.
They weren't letting us getlegal, they were copying our
legal bail.
They were also uh, they calledthem whatever.
Yeah, well, they're callingthem.
And then I guess Barnes Noblewasn't doing it.
Well, if you didn't use theircode, I don't even know if they
sealed the operation, butwhatever it was came up with the
(32:44):
idea let's give the shootingsdrones.
So I got about four or fivegood ones with the drone.
They were coming like literallyright on the books.
I had a hole in my window thatI could seal back up.
Nobody knew what was going onand I reached in the air and I
ran the shit out of the drone,what I was doing.
I reached out to my friend andshe got me a job.
(33:06):
I worked about four or fivetimes and then I got an holiday
man and they put up some newtechnology.
They detected the drones inthat space and they were trying
to set it back in the day.
I was like, man, this is cool.
This is going to happen forever.
Absolutely, absolutely.
I'm a student of art at all.
(33:27):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's kind ofwhat I've been seeing.
Do you talk to people about theimportance of health and other
resources?
Absolutely, absolutely.
I never had a bad conscienceabout scanning, first of all,
people information.
But I'm not just using this formyself.
(33:50):
I'm using this to help.
I'm feeding people, I'm housingpeople.
I'm doing more stuff for otherpeople than myself, even when
I'm filling up a semi.
This is giving people half offgas.
All this shit.
It's like robbing PeterCrickoff.
I'm filling up the semi's andshit.
This is giving people half offthe fucking gas.
All this shit.
It's like robbing Peter Crickoff of your head.
I never frowned upon it becauseI knew that, ultimately, the
(34:16):
bank is on personal rules andI'm here for fucking under the
bank.
I mean, it's a real thing,right?
Yeah, yeah, I don't Sorry.
Oh, okay, sorry about that.
So the important thing is superimportant.
I that's why I want to do this.
(34:37):
Yeah, yeah, I think that'ssuper important.
I think we're going to shift alittle bit, because we were
talking about it, it was online.
We were looking at the double-Asub 2010.
Big Sean yeah, always, still,I'm telling you, dear friend,
(34:58):
dear friend.
So he was a real big guy man.
He had some heart and soul.
First time I met him, he wasjust being a giving person.
I didn't even know that they'ddo one Bought me a bottle of
wine and all that kind of shit.
I'm like damn.
So he was reluctant of tellingme who he was.
(35:18):
So somehow we got down to it,showed me his story and showing
me him on the cover of XXL withmaybe the greatest rap class
ever, with Rick Ross.
Yeah, unfortunately, we all tooka turn down the wrong road.
We all went in the wrongdirection.
(35:59):
I'm anxious to see how hisstory ends.
Is he a smart enough guy toreally get the story in the way
he wants it to?
I feel like everything else isgoing to be in that absolute
opinion.
It's just how bad you want itto be.
It is, it is.
And then put yourself in theiradvisors.
Absolutely, that's veryimportant.
You are a part of your advisor,like if you want to stay in the
(36:21):
ghetto all day.
Just go to the ghetto shop.
You know what I'm saying.
If you want to find your life,come out here to Denver and see
some new shit.
It's simple, you'll get that.
This is what you get.
I don't know.
We're probably getting close.
Let me just say this real quickwe are out.
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