May 16, 2025 • 61 mins
An inspiring conversation with two-time Dove Award–winning artist, author, and speaker Babbie Mason.
Discover how Babbie’s family roots and the rich emotional expression of the Black church shaped her relentless work ethic and passion for storytelling. From the timeless rhythms of jazz and gospel to the power of authentic mentorship, Babbie shares her journey of using music and words to bridge divides, empower women in faith, and build vibrant communities.
Learn practical strategies for finding stillness in a busy world, honoring your unique gifts, and persevering through adversity. Whether you’re an emerging artist, a faith leader, or anyone seeking encouragement, this episode will uplift your spirit and equip you to tell your own story with courage and grace.
Keywords:
Christian music, Dove Award winner, gospel storytelling, mentorship, empowering women, faith journey, Black church, music ministry, resilience, creative inspiration, stillness practice, authentic living.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:02):
Coming up and so you have to really make the great effort to
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we take the time, you know to invest.
(00:24):
Think it think of it as investing, you know, in
yourself. Think of it as investing in your
mental health and even your physical health to get outside,
you know, to breathe some fresh air, to put your phone down for,
you know, 5 or 10 minutes. This episode is sponsored by
Better Help. A couple years ago, I went
through one of the toughest health episodes of my life.
(00:46):
I found myself in a really really dark place and honestly
it felt like the world was caving in all around me.
I didn't know where to turn or what to do.
I knew I needed something but itjust seemed like nothing was
working. And therapy, Well, therapy
didn't work for me in the past. But then with the encouragement
of my wife, I decided to give today's sponsor Better Help a
try. Even though I was a little
(01:07):
skeptical at 1st. And let me say it was so
different. I connected with a therapist and
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(01:50):
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(02:19):
Auto sequence start 54321 and now I'm with the show.
Hi, I'm Bobby Mason and my happiness is singing a song all.
(02:40):
Right. Hello, Bobby Mason, thanks so
much for coming on the show. Thank you for having me today.
Absolutely. It's so good to see you.
You're a you're a two time Dove award-winning Christian artist,
best selling author, speaker, TVshow host.
You're busy. I'm a, I'm a busy girl, you
know, I'm not letting any monster up underneath my feet.
(03:02):
It's better than the alternative, right?
Being busy. You know, I just want to use all
my gifts for God, you know, and,and even explore some things
that I have been at. Even at this stage of life, I'm
still making new discoveries. And that's what I love about
life. This is what I love about
ministry. What I love about creativity is
that, you know, as long as the music keeps playing, I keep
(03:26):
writing. As long as the the ideas keep
flowing, man, I keep chasing them.
That's what we got to do, I think.
I think we owe God a disservice if we're not using our talents
right in an active way like that.
Yeah, I think it was Irma Bombeck, one of my favorite,
definitely one of my favorite comedians.
(03:47):
But she said this. I see if I can quote this right.
She said when I stand before Godat the end of my life, I would
hope that I would not have a single bit of talent left.
But I could say to God, I used everything you gave me.
I've kind of adapted that as my as my mantra, so to speak.
I love that. Well, you've had, let's see, how
(04:09):
many something like 26 music projects.
Is that right 20? 6 Recorded Projects I'm Working
on #27 Right now I'm working on a Christmas project and which is
a lot of fun because I'm including my youngest son Chaz,
who is also a singer, and my producer friend Cheryl Rogers.
The three of us are planning a Christmas tour right now and I'm
(04:31):
also working on a new worship project.
So I've been writing, recording,singing, traveling, touring and
and planning my next tour. Wow, that's yeah, that keeps
you, that keeps you busy for sure, keeps you going.
And it's like, how many books have you written?
9 books is there. Nine books.
My latest book is called Each One Reach One Everyday Ways You
(04:55):
Can Shine God's Light. And the book encourages every
believer to take whatever it is that you know, whatever gift or
talent that God has placed in their hands, and use that to
shine their light and to share their faith and to tell others
about the Lord. Wow.
Where? Where do you think you get your
creative energy or inspiration from it?
(05:17):
Does that go all the way back toyour childhood growing up?
Yeah, a lot of it was taught. You know, a lot of it was taught
by my parents. My father was a pastor and my
parents and my mom was a wonderful singer.
Both of them are deceased now, but they came up from the South
during that era when a lot of black people were moving up from
(05:38):
the South to the northern states, you know, looking for
for work. And so my parents had this
innovation, this work ethic thatwas just highly commendable.
My dad started a church in Michigan.
That's where I was born. You know, after they moved N
they established Lily MissionaryBaptist Church in Jackson, MI,
(06:02):
which is where I was born and raised.
And so my, my parents, you know,they were like, the Bible says
all things to all people that they might win some.
I mean, they wore a lot of hats.My dad was a pastor.
He was also a writer. He was in the radio.
He was a county commissioner. He was a college professor.
He was a prison chaplain. So they were, you know, they,
(06:24):
they loved using all of their gifts.
They love serving people. So it comes naturally for me.
So a lot of it was caught and a lot of it was taught.
You know, I had wonderful mentors and teachers and great
access to education. I'm, I'm a lover of education.
I taught middle high school music for a lot of years and I
(06:47):
love higher Ed. I just got my master's degree a
couple of years ago from TribecaUniversity in Nashville, TN.
My plan is to go back and get mydoctorate after I finished with
a couple of other projects. I just love life.
I love, you know, I'm a continuous student.
I love learning, I love teachingwhat I think I know.
And I think a lot of that came from just growing up in a
(07:08):
household where education and pursuing our dreams was really
important. Wow, that it's so good to hear.
I mean, you look around sometimes today and you, I don't
know, you kind of wonder about the family dynamic and, and
what's going on And how important do you think as kids
for us coming up to see our parents have that work ethic and
(07:30):
to be able to, I mean, I think kids learn a lot just by, by
seeing how our parents operate and the things they go through.
Don't you? I mean just in life in general.
I mean, absolutely. And I, I still think that we are
carrying on, you know, that thatmindset and that work ethic with
my family. My youngest son, Chaz is a
(07:53):
singer. Crazy, crazy.
I'm not saying that's just because I'm his mother, but he
is a very, very gifted young man.
His name is Chaz Mason and he and I work closely together, he
writes. We serve together at Eastside
Baptist Church in Marietta, GA, where we both lead worship.
I'm on the road, you know, a couple Sundays or weekends a
(08:14):
month, so I'm not there as oftenas Chaz is.
He's there pretty much every Sunday on stage leading worship.
And so we get to serve together,we get to write together, record
together, we're touring some together.
And so I, I'd like to think thatwhat I was taught, you know, by
mom, by my mom and dad, I'm passing it on to my kids.
(08:35):
And how special is that to be able to work with your son like
that in a close relationship andin the church?
That's you can't ask for much more than that.
To me, it's the best of all worlds, you know what I'm
saying? It is the best, you know, it's
as the old musical song says, it's nice work if you can get
it, but it's, but it's also a great privilege to be able to do
(08:56):
what I love and love what I do. You know, that's just, to me,
it's a dream come true. Absolutely.
I'm not saying that it's not work because it is a lot of
work, but it is. It's it's bearing a lot of fruit
that I, you know, that I planteda lot of seeds in.
I get to do it. You know, I dreamed of doing
even even more than that. I get to, you know, travel and,
(09:19):
and meet people, meet people like you, speak to people, share
my dream, share my heart, my visions, impact people with my
words and my music. I mean, really, that that's a
blessing? Wow.
Well, I'm, I am honored to be able to talk to you.
So I, I, I agree with this conversation.
I just, I'm so glad you're here going back to your childhood a
(09:41):
little bit. Do you, what do you remember
most about, about those days with your your mom and your dad
in the church, but your dad having such a a leadership role
as a pastor? Do you, did you look at it like
that or was he just dad to you as a kid?
It was just Dad. I remember when I was a little
kid, I started taking piano lessons real early, like first
(10:04):
grade and studying classical music, music, the classical
composers like Bach and Brahms and, and Chopin.
And then I remember when I was about 9 years of, of age, a
vacancy came up in the church where the church needed a piano
player. And my dad, you know, saw that I
had this musical talent. And the next thing I know I was,
I was just, I wouldn't say forced, but I'm told I was, as
(10:30):
we, as we call it in my neighborhood, I was violent old.
I, I wouldn't, I wasn't volunteered.
I was violent old. I would be the next piano
player. And, you know, it was a big
responsibility for a nine year old, you know, all the
rehearsals and Sunday morning worship services.
And sometimes our church visitedother churches during the, you
know, midweek when I was, you know, having to do my homework
(10:53):
in the backseat of the car. But but what it established was
#1 you know, a discipline it, it, it established in me
opportunity to use all my gifts.If some, some of it was like
learning how to, it was like sink or swim because I had to
learn how to play the piano by ear.
(11:14):
My, my church didn't use music. So everything was learned.
Everything was taught by rote orby ear.
But that just helped me to navigate, I think the gifts and
the talents that I'm using today.
So it was a great jumping off point, you know, Yeah.
There was a time when in my teenage years when I kind of
resented the responsibility whenmy other friends, you know, were
(11:36):
dating or playing out in the street or going out with their
boyfriends or whatever. I was, you know, at choir
rehearsal or I was at a church worship service.
And so there were some sacrifices early on.
But I thank the Lord that it it paid off and it has contributed
to, you know, who I am today. So I'm grateful for that.
(11:58):
What what a special moment that your your dad saw that in you
and, you know, wouldn't let you,you know, get away per SE from
from that responsibility of the piano, because I feel like, you
know, our parents see things in US and and encourage us to try
different things or to go forward with something.
And and, you know, that's that'sagain goes back to that tight
knit family That's so important.I totally agree.
(12:22):
I, I'm in the middle of five and, you know, I could say that
about all of my siblings, not just me.
My oldest brother is a retired pastor.
My older brother is a journalist.
You know, my, my sister is a, she's a middle school math
coach, but she's also an entrepreneur.
(12:43):
My youngest brother works for the state of Michigan.
But we all, you know, have, you know, gifts and talents that we
use in other, other businesses or other endeavors.
We work together on some projects, so you know, it's not
just me that caught this love for life and this
entrepreneurial spirit, but my other siblings as well.
(13:03):
Wow, that's great. That is awesome.
You know, I, I think with their dads, I think moms and dads are
both important, but I think withtheir dads, there's that
relationship where you, you get,you know, that fatherly advice
sometimes or the wisdom that they put out.
Do you, do you remember anythingthat that sticks with you today
that your dad, dad told you as you're coming up?
Oh, yeah, my dad was an avid reader and a wonderful.
(13:27):
I would kind of equate my dad tolike that preacher like Martin
Luther King or CL Franklin, Aretha Franklin's dad, you know,
that Mississippi preacher that had this, this delivery, like it
was almost like as if they were singing their sermons, you know,
(13:47):
and what, what what we would call in the black church, the a
hoop, you know, where they wouldbegin or preach like that, you
know, and the church, it was this rhythm that was, you know,
that was that was established when dad was preaching.
But along the line, my dad, my dad just loved great reading,
great quotes. And I remember my dad using kind
(14:09):
of as his, as his life, some words that he used for life.
He used to say, if God is your partner, make your plans larger.
And he had a radio broadcast andsomething funny about the radio
broadcast, about the radio broadcast.
It was on a local radio station on a Sunday morning from 9:00 to
(14:30):
9:30. And immediately after the
program was the, the, what was the name of the, it was the
program that immediately followed ours was the polka
hour. And so and so right out of my
dad's sermon, my dad would be right in the middle of preaching
the Gospel, you know, and he would be preaching about Jesus
(14:52):
on the cross and Jesus conquering death, hell, sin in
the grave. And the next thing you would
hear is roll out the barrel. We'll have a barrel of fun.
It was my dad was, he just rolled with the punches, you
know? Yeah, He was a big dreamer and
he loved the quote. If God is your partner, make
(15:13):
your plans larger. And so we've, we've just, you
know, done our best to carry outthat dream, you know?
That's so true. I mean if you've got God on your
side you there's nothing that's impossible in front of you,
that's for sure. I bet your dad loved that.
He got a kick out of that. Probably the the polka stuff.
Oh, listen, we have recordings of it.
We recorded, you know, some of those sermons and it's, it's
(15:33):
hilarious because, you know, he didn't have a nice clean cut
into the program. So he was right in the middle of
his sermon. They would, you know, end the
show and and roll right into thenext program.
So we just took it as it came, you know?
Yeah, yeah, sorry about my Co producers here.
The the puppies are are getting getting wild.
(15:54):
Sorry about I. Don't think you can hear that,
Sorry. We have.
Dogs too. I love that when you're a minute
ago talking about the the kind of almost singing with with the
sermon is that where does that style?
What are the roots of that? Because I'm very interested in
that. That style is that to, I don't
know, somehow help keep the congregation interested.
(16:15):
And there's like a rhythm to that, to that sermon style.
Well, I remember my daddy sayingoften he said that he wouldn't
serve a God that he couldn't feel.
And that kind of preaching is not only informative, it's not
only spiritual, but it's also emotional.
(16:37):
And, you know, the, the black church, the back, the black
community has come from a history of pain, A history of
heartache, a history of loss. And the black, the black
preacher, he has, he historically is all things to
(16:58):
all people. I mean, he, I remember my, my
dad as a little girl, my dad would get phone calls in the
middle of the night from, you know, because somebody died or
somebody was in jail or somebodywas in the hospital or somebody
was sick. Somebody needed legal advice.
And oftentimes they were hesitant to call a lawyer or
hesitant to call somebody in thecommunity because they didn't
(17:21):
trust that person. And so, but they trusted the
black preacher. And so the black preacher was
the liaison. He was that person in the middle
that assisted everybody in the community.
And my daddy was that person. And so I think that style of
preaching comes from this need to have not only a not only a
spiritual outlet, but an emotional outlet.
(17:43):
And that's why, you know, when we sing, we shout, we cry, we we
clap, we dance because we believe in making a joyful noise
to the Lord. But it is also this way of
expressing our worship physically.
You know, the Bible says, make ajoyful noise, clap your hand,
shout unto God. And that was our way.
(18:04):
And this still is our way of expressing our worship.
Wow. And I, you know, you don't think
about that sometimes with the role of a pastor, but yeah, it's
he takes on several jobs as kindof like, like you said, a
counselor, someone who's passed or someone who needs him.
That had to really pull on him, I guess is a dear and that has a
(18:26):
lot of emotional energy that that he had to spend.
Absolutely. But and I love it.
You know, I have this opportunity of growing up in the
black church and I went to school, I got my degree from a
free Methodist college and I gotmy master's degree from a
Nazarene college. I teach at a Church of God
(18:47):
university. So, you know, I think I'm kind
of taking on that same vision ofmy father of, you know, serving
all people, serving people, justkind of being this person who
loves the church, loves people regardless of their race or
denomination or their background.
I just want to be used of God toserve people and to bring them
(19:11):
closer to God, to help them fulfill their dreams and to be a
blessing to the body of Christ at large, you know?
Yeah, absolutely. Does it worry you at all when
you look around today that how divided we all seem?
Do you do you think that we're missing something that that
could bring us together? Or is it is it to blame of the
(19:31):
media and politics? And how do we how do we get to a
better place, I guess, with where we are?
Or are we just is it? I'll often think of it as you
know, division seems to be a bigbusiness.
And if we are divided, it seems,and we're fighting amongst each
other, it, it seems like the government can get away with
stuff or we're not really payingattention to the to the ball as
(19:52):
it were. You know what's going on?
Well, I think for the most part nothing has changed.
I think men, people will always be.
They'll always be this, this division between people because
everybody thinks they're right, you know?
Yeah. But I think the media oftentimes
(20:16):
contributes to the frenzy. And now that we're in the
information age, it's information overload, which
conjures up fear, which conjuresup division.
And all of those things that keeps people at odds with one
(20:37):
another. And that's why I love what I do,
because I get to write songs, sing songs, write books that I
hope will bring down, you know, a lot of that.
And if I can, you know, do that one person at a time, then I
think my mission is accomplished.
(20:58):
I and I think it is. I get a lot of mail, a lot of
emails, a lot of communication online from people who, you
know, are letting me know that my songs are a source of comfort
and hope to them. And so I think if we, you know,
here again, if we take whatever we have in our hand and use it
to bring one another, to bring the body of Christ or bring the
(21:20):
world together, then, you know, we can't.
Yeah, the government has its place and the media has its
place. But I think every one of us has
a responsibility to contribute whatever we have in our hand and
use love as a, as a, as a mediumto do it, Then we can do our
part to make the world a better place.
(21:41):
And that's just not something nice to say.
But it really can't happen because I'm seeing it happen in
my own world. I, I believe so too.
I, I believe that using our talents, being able to, like you
said, use love in that case and really listen to one another and
just realize that that we are all in this together.
(22:01):
I mean, there's, there's a lot of things that we could point
out to say that we're different from this way or that way, but
there's a lot more that that we find ourselves alike than we do
different. I think that's what we need to.
I mean, listen, I got a not longago, I got a picture.
I wrote a song called Trust His Heart.
And the lyrics say the chorus says God is too wise to be
(22:24):
mistaken. God is too good to be unkind
when you don't understand, when you don't see his plan, when you
can't trace his hand, trust his heart.
And recently I got a picture of a ladies of her mother's
headstone with those words carved in her mother's
(22:45):
headstone. And I mean, when you see that
and you realize that something that you say or something that
you wrote or something that you said in a podcast or something
that you put in a book or something that you said from a
platform impacted somebody's life to the degree that they
(23:05):
chiseled it in their mother's headstone.
I mean, that just brings it. That just brings life right down
to, you know, where the rubber meets the road.
And that is what I think keeps me, keeps me just humble.
And I got a matter of fact, I got a, a letter today in the
mail from a lady from North Carolina who is a member of a, a
(23:29):
quilting club. And she, the name of her group
is called the Sisterhood. And she wrote me to tell me that
one Sunday this month, they're going to celebrate their third
anniversary and they are going to March into the church using a
one of my songs called A Place Called Sisterhood as their theme
song. And so when you when you hear
(23:50):
those kind of stories, I mean, we're talking about real people,
real life, real stories, real impact.
And to me, that is the kind of difference that I want to make,
you know? Wow, absolutely.
Those are. And those are are like little
winks from God, aren't they? I mean, they kind of big, big
show. You're on the right track.
It just lets you know that, you know, you plant a seed and you
(24:10):
water that seed. Now the Bible says some plant
some water, but God gives the increase.
And if I can plant a seed or water a seed and watch it bear
fruit in the life of somebody who's encouraged by a song that
I sang or something that I wroteor, or, or said from the
platform, then that's, that's just a a little help from God
(24:31):
that I must be doing maybe a little something, right?
I love that. I love that story.
That's so it gives you hope to hear things like that because it
you realize that God is watchingand God does give you those
those graces to know that you'rewhat your work is, is righteous
when you're when you're putting it out there.
Not that it's, it's us, it's we're, we're being used by God,
but it's just kind of gives you that, that hope, I guess, in the
(24:55):
world. You're absolutely right.
You've got a lot of a lot of your songs now are are really
considered modern day church classics and that story is is an
example of that. Do you have a favorite or
favorite collaboration over the years?
You know, I kind of look at my songs kind of like my kids.
You know, they're conceived in love and they, a lot of them
(25:19):
will grow up and leave home. I have just as many, if not more
in the file cabinet, you know, that other people will never
see. But I love them just the same.
And so you, it's like pick a day.
I love different things on different days and love them for
different reasons. I do love trust his heart.
All Rise is probably one of the more popular songs.
(25:41):
It's one of the oldest songs that I've written.
I love standing in the gap. I love with all my heart.
I love God will open up the windows and pour you out a
blessing, which is a duet that Idid with my mother.
It's on YouTube. My mom is deceased, but the
(26:03):
YouTube video is into the well into the many thousands.
So my mom is a YouTube sensation.
Yeah, that's, that's really cool.
My mom and I recorded this song a few years, many years ago,
back in the back in the early 2000s.
And it's called God will Open upthe Window.
So I have a lot of songs that that I love and a lot of people
(26:27):
enjoy listening to. I wrote AI wrote a song.
I did a record called. What was the name of the record
called? Oh, what was that record called?
It was a jazz record. Anyway, there was a song on the
record called Play It Again and another song called simply I
(26:48):
Love You. And these songs are, are written
in kind of like a jazz style. And this shows off a lot of the
cool songwriting techniques. So I love those songs for the,
for the writing style and the singing style.
I, I'm a jazz I, I'm a jazz aficionado and love the style
(27:08):
of, of jazz and love singing jazz.
And so this record, play it again simply, I love you
Timeless. The name of the the name of the
record is called Timeless. Those songs are, I love that
style and I love those songs forthat reason.
So I have a lot of favorites andbut those are some.
(27:30):
Those are a few of the favorites.
I I love jazz too. I think the one thing I love
about jazz and the history of jazz is it's still very much
played today, but popular. I mean, it's that music is kind
of like they were the early, early days.
They were ahead of their time a little bit.
You know, it was just a, it's just such a really.
You know, the genre will never, it's kind of like, you know, R&B
(27:53):
and and gospel. It's a genre that is
foundational to our culture. And so it'll never grow, it'll
never grow old and it'll never die.
And there's a part of me that here again, it's that love of
the, of the genre and that stylethat helps me emotionally
express myself. And so that's why that's why I
love the style. Growing up in the, you know,
(28:15):
coming of age in the 70s and, and living outside of growing up
outside of Motown, being influenced by, you know, the
likes of Aretha and Roberta and Gladys and all of those Queens
of R&B, you know, that we call them by their first name.
I mean, they, their music changed my life.
And there was one lady who was aChristian singer.
(28:38):
She was one of Andre Crouch's disciples.
And I, I loved her music probably most of all because
she, she had that R&B kind of a style like Motown, but she sang
and wrote Christian music. And her name is Danny Belle
Hall. I don't know if you've heard of
her, but you need to check out Danielle Hall.
(28:58):
Her music. Yeah, she's, she's deceased now,
but her music was to me, the epitome of contemporary gospel
music because she incorporated all of that.
She was a singer. He was a songwriter.
He was a piano player. She was an amazing communicator
and performer. And yet she wrote music for God.
And so I consider her, besides my mother, I consider Danny Bell
(29:21):
Hall probably, you know, the ultimate mentor for me because
she incorporated all of those gifts and she dedicated her
gifts and talents to to gospel music.
And I love her. Her style she's still in is made
today. Wow.
And, and, and all those women that you mentioned and, and, and
yourself included there, you're such great storytellers because
(29:43):
I think in any art form, you have to be a great storyteller
and in order to get that messageout, don't you?
I mean, I think that's the core issue of that, because it's
emotion and it's telling a story.
Listen, that's what life is made-up of.
You know, every day is a different story.
And I've come to the find and learn the value of story.
(30:04):
And when if you read my books, you'll see and hear, you know, a
lot of anecdotal illustrations, a lot about my life, a lot about
my parents life. Because listen, you're, you're
the one with your own story. And if you don't tell it, it
won't get told. And I, I found that when we tell
(30:26):
our story, three things happen. When we tell our story.
Number one, I get blessed by telling it, another person gets
blessed by hearing it, and then God gets the glory.
So you know, I just want to encourage you, congratulations
on your podcast and and I'm grateful that you're telling
your story and that you're giving other people the
(30:47):
opportunity to tell their stories on this platform.
So, you know, this is this is the era of storytelling.
And so I just want to encourage those that are watching this
podcast, you know, to get your story out there and particularly
your, your, your God story, you know, online or, or on in, in a
podcast or in an e-mail or in a text message, however you get it
(31:09):
out there, tell your story to make God look good.
Yeah, wow. So well said.
I mean, I think story is something that I think takes us
back and connects us from, from years and years ago.
I mean, from the first humans were telling stories and we see
that on markings on on cave walls.
And I mean, there's the storytelling has been around for
(31:31):
for eons. And I think, you know, like you
said, that's something that justit, it withstands time and the
legacy it just carries on through.
Wow, I know another thing I wanted to, to to ask you about.
I know women's issues and, and bringing women closer to Jesus
is is really important to you. Is is there a story behind that
(31:51):
particular ministry with women? Is this something close to your
heart? Listen, I have so, so many
stories. I could tell you the story of my
mother, as I told you a moment ago that my mother is a was a
phenomenal singer. As a matter of fact, I have a
couple of double awards right there.
(32:13):
And I won a double award for recorded Gospel song of the year
for Stop by the Church, which was a duet with my mother.
And we won that double award in 1996.
So that's a great story. But I'll tell you one something
that my mother said. We did an interview one day.
It was a Mother's Day weekend and my mom was in Michigan on
the phone and I was here in Georgia on the phone.
(32:35):
And the, the, the guy that was hosting the show asked my mother
for some closing words. And these words I will never
forget that my mother said, she said to the listening audience,
and I'll share this story. She said, I could tell you this
is what my mother said. She said, I could tell you to
hang in there. You know how a lot of people
will say that that will be theirresponse when you ask how
(32:56):
they're doing. They'll say, well, I'm hanging
in there. Or my mother said, I'm not going
to tell you to hang in there because when you're hanging in
there, you're exposed. When you're hanging in there,
you're at risk. You are dashed about by the
elements. So I'm not going to tell you to
hang in there, but instead I'm going to tell you to stand in
there. The book of Ephesians chapter 6
(33:16):
tell us, tells us, having done all, to stand, stand therefore
and put on the whole armor of God that you might be able to
withstand the fiery darts of thewicked one.
She says we don't have to hang in there.
We can stand in there because Jesus hung in there for us.
So I carry those words with me. You know, don't hang in there.
(33:37):
Stand in there. And my mother reminded me of
that many years ago. And so did this to this moment.
You know, I don't take this position of, you know, just a
lackadaisical stance or you knowthis, well, it'll work out.
No, I take this position that itwill work out because God is on
my side. That will work out because, you
(33:58):
know, I believe God's word that now unto him who was able to do
exceedingly abundantly above allthat I could ask or think
according to the power that works within me.
And so my mom, you know, was a great, she was a great woman.
She was a motivator and she justhad this, this consternation,
you know, this constitution thatwas just unbendable.
(34:23):
Her resolve was she had a resolve of steel.
And I carry her, you know, her, her determination and her love
with me. And I'd like to think that, you
know, it encourages me and is a part of the fuel that, you know,
keeps me going. You know, when you say the story
(34:44):
to hang in there, I get the image of, you know, if you're
hanging in there, I, I image of a storm, you're like, you're
exposed to the elements. You don't really know what's
going to happen. But if you're standing in there,
you're facing the storm and confidence and knowing that
you're going to get through it. So I, I like that.
I love that image. That is the message.
That is the message. That's the bottom line.
Yep, Jesus will. He never promised that we
(35:07):
wouldn't have storms, but he didpromise that he would be there
with us and, and give us a path through.
So I love that. Do you, you know, women, strong
women, they're the cornerstone of, of families.
And I think, you know, that's they're so important.
Do you, do you ever worry about that, about women?
And like, I don't know, just the, the society today, it seems
(35:31):
like in the past we took, I guess I don't know if we took a
better, gave it more importance,but it just seems like some of
the family unit just seems to befalling away.
And I think that takes a strong father and strong mother.
But these strong women like thatwe grew up with, I just feel
like they're, they're really special.
Yes, I am blessed to and this issomething that I do
(35:55):
intentionally and I think you have to be intentional.
I am a part of a community of women that we meet every Monday
online for an hour where we, we encourage one another, we pray
for one another. We, we have this bond where we
share in confidentiality, you know, what's going on in our
(36:17):
world. And there are other women in
ministry, other women in creative arts.
And we do this on a weekly basis.
And I think we need to, you know, to be very intentional
because these kind of things just don't happen.
You have to make them happen. And, and that's why I'm really
(36:39):
intentional about meeting with this group every week.
And I try not to miss unless there's something of an
emergent, you know, kind of a situation.
But I, I highly recommend that you become a part of a, a
family, obviously your family, but, but being a part of a
community where you can be strengthened and encouraged by
(37:02):
people of like mine and, and, and maybe even like giftedness,
because we're living in a day and age where there's so much
coming against us that can I call them the D words, you know,
that can discourage us, keep us despondent, distracted,
distorted, diseased. So yeah, I, I highly recommend
(37:27):
being a part of a community where you can be encouraged or
you can share your life, where you can maybe even share
projects or entrepreneurial endeavors.
You know these, It's so important to stay connected.
Absolutely. I think, you know, given the
chance, the devil works really hard to try to tear us down.
Especially I've found when we always think, OK, I'm on the
(37:51):
right track if I'm trying to be destroyed by Satan or he's
trying to put a wrench in that, you know, and stop it.
That's happened to me a couple times where we've tried to get
projects off the ground. And you know, I would either I
don't know, to get really exhausted, tired, just seem like
I was being worn out and worn out by the devil because you
just feel that that's he doesn'twant that to happen.
(38:11):
And it's like, you know, what you're trying to do is for God
and on the right path because hewouldn't come after you so hard
if if it wasn't. So community can really you can.
Know you're doing something right when you have opposition.
You know, from spiritual forces that try to keep you from
accomplishing your goals. So if you're, if you're getting
(38:34):
pushed back, you know from theseforces that that doesn't mean
that you throw in the towel and you quit, but it means that you
double your, your efforts and that you and you pray and you
work and you don't get tired. And if you do take a break but
don't quit, you know, don't throw in the towel, but you keep
going and, and you make headway,even if it's a little headway.
(38:58):
But if you keep doing it and youkeep working at it, and you know
that you're called and you know that this is something that God
wants you to do, then you keep going until the project is done.
Yeah, but my dad says a lot. He says make sure you're right
and then go forward, you know, make sure you're in a, in a, in
a point where it's forgot or it's you're doing something in
(39:19):
the in the right. I like it.
Don't let anything stop you. Yeah, I, I love this quote I
read on your website about getting closer to God in Christ
means being a good listener. I love that just because of what
we try to do with storytelling and and documentary work and
journalism. It's being good listeners.
It is very important. What does that mean to you?
(39:41):
Well, I have this opportunity tokind of do what you're doing.
I have a television show called Babbie's House and it's seen on
or we record the show at WATCTV 57 here in Atlanta.
But it's everywhere. It's it's online.
You can go. You can search for Babbie's
(40:02):
House. And something that I've
discovered, because sometimes I don't get the information, the
book or the the bio information until like the the author or the
singer is like walking on, you know?
Yeah, I don't have a whole lot of time sometimes to do a lot of
background information. But what I've learned is if you
are, if you're a good listener, and what that means is it means
(40:25):
being genuinely concerned. It means being genuinely
interested in that person that you're that you're talking with.
And if you lean in and listen and make it about them and, and
remembering to ask those five WSand an H who, what, when, where,
(40:48):
how and why and, and be genuinely interested in what
you're hearing. I sometimes I don't even look at
my notes. I just lean in and listen to
what they're saying. And the, the, the interview is,
is real easy. And so I, I, we are in the age
of telling our story, but I think we're also in an age of
(41:11):
being a good listener and practicing being a good
listener. Because if you look at a lot,
you know, what's going on out there in the world, not a whole
lot of, sometimes not a lot of listening is happening.
It's everybody's throwing, you know, darts and, and fireballs
and, and, and words and, and their cause and refuting what
(41:31):
somebody else is saying. And I think sometimes if we just
be quiet and listen to what the other person is saying, a lot of
that you'll find that what they're saying really has value,
you know, and it you might even learn something, you might even
be encouraged. And it might be something that
you can pass on to others and and find it real valuable.
(41:57):
So true. I, I worry about the younger
generation too with the, I thinkwe're all, we could probably be
guilty of our phones and and social media and stuff like
that. But I think the younger
generation that, that never grewup without a device, I, I worry
about their conversation skills and their ability to listen
because I don't know, it's a wayto kind of hide behind things
(42:18):
and you're in front of a screen all day.
It's just it's not good emotionally or mentally for for
kids. Yeah, I teach at a couple of
universities this semester and the devices in the classroom,
sometimes I'm just concerned that my students are not even
that they're not even listening to me because, you know, they're
(42:39):
distracted by that device that'sin their hand.
And so you have to really, as a,as a professor, you have to be
really creative to make sure that students are getting the
content and getting the information that you're trying
to communicate. So it, it can be a real
challenge to teach in the day ofelectronic devices in the
classroom. It's it is a challenge, but
(43:01):
hopefully we are, you know, we're making some impact with
students. I love teaching songwriting and
I love teaching what I think I know about writing books.
But it's a battle, you know, when you have to deal with
devices in the classroom. What can we do to to, I guess,
in order to be still? I think there's a lot of power
in that, lot of peace. And that helps us listen to God
(43:23):
too, to be still and just listento him and see what he's telling
us. Is it for these young people and
for everybody? Really?
What's do you think there are some keys there?
Or is it just a matter of putting the phone down and just
having some self-discipline to be still?
Well, I think that's a good place to start earlier today.
And I, I just, we live, we happen to live out here in the
(43:46):
country. And I'm a city girl by by birth
and a city girl by nature. I love my city, but there are
some benefits to living out herein the country.
And just today and you know, theweather is so beautiful and I, I
took a little ride down. We have a lake behind our house
(44:06):
and I took a moment to just ridedown to the lake and I put my
phone up and I just, you know, opened up my car door and took a
little stroll out by the lake. And I had some some fish food
and I fed the fish. And, you know, I could have and
often times I do. I'm in a hurry, you know, I
(44:29):
missed those opportunities. But today I was just drawn to to
go down to the lake and spend some time without my phone, with
just D briefing, you know, and, and you're right, you have to,
you have to be intentional. If not, those moments will be
stolen by busyness and anxiety and time thieves and you know,
(44:52):
the clock and e-mail and phone calls.
And so you have to really make the a great effort to take time
for yourself. You know, fear, anxiety,
depression are constant, you know, battlefields for us.
And but we can, we can come against it if we are more
(45:15):
intentional and if we take the time, you know, to invest.
Think it, think of it as investing, you know, in
yourself. Think of it as investing in your
mental health and even your physical health to get outside,
you know, to breathe some fresh air, to put your phone down for,
you know, 5 or 10 minutes and watch, you know, instead of
(45:36):
watching your screen man. I put the phone down and I watch
the birds, I watch the fish, I watch the sky, I watch the water
like stars on the water when theas the water was glistening in
the sunlight. And it was so good.
It was so it was such a blessingto be able to spend a few
moments in peace and solitude. And, and we need it.
(46:00):
And you have to, as you say, we have to be intentional to get
it. Absolutely.
And there's, there's studies that are done that that, that we
as humans need to be near water.And I think they've done studies
where just by walking along water or looking at water for a
short time, that does something internally and it, it helps you
fight those, those battles of depression and anxiety and
(46:22):
stress. So yeah, there's definitely
something to that. And then also it connects you
with God. Yeah.
Yeah. Psalm 23 says, yeah, though I
walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no
evil. The Lord is my shepherd.
I shall not want. He maketh me lie down in green
pastures. He leads me besides still
waters, you know. So God invites us, you know, to
(46:45):
to talk with him. He invites us to find those
peaceful moments where we can clear our head and get rid of
anxiety. So yeah, it's it's good for us
and it's necessary for us. Did you ever go through times?
I'm, I'm sure you have, but likeearly on when you're, when
you're trying to carve out what you wanted to do for for God in
(47:06):
your art, Did you ever come through times where you just
felt like, Oh my gosh, Satan is working so hard against me.
Am I going to get through this? Am I going to be successful for
God? Not necessarily, you know,
taking it upon yourself, but didyou, how did you get through
those times when you just the battle is fierce.
You know, those times come to all of us and they certainly
came knocking on my door. I remember very vividly when I
(47:29):
was still trying to figure out, you know, who who I am or who I
was to be stylistically and musically.
Growing up near Detroit, MI, which is like a a Mecca for
gospel music. You got, you know, so many great
artists that came out of Detroitboth, you know, on the R&B side
and in the gospel side. And I tried to be, you know,
(47:52):
like a lot of those gospel artists as a female artist, you
know, there's a stereotypical thing that if you're a black,
black female artist, then you have to shout or, you know, or
scream or do all of these vocal licks.
And, and I tried to do those things, but like on a Sunday,
but then on Monday I would have laryngitis.
I tried screaming and shouting and doing all those licks, but
(48:14):
it just, it just wasn't my style.
And there was this part of me that felt like I was too black
for white people and I was too white for black people and I
didn't fit in and I felt like grey, you know, like I just was
a square peg in a round hole. And then as I began to, you
know, develop my music ministry and career, and I began to look
(48:36):
out in the audience and I began to see this beautiful cross
section of not just white peopleor black people, but this
beautiful mix of ages and races and cultures coming together in
in to worship. And I realized that God gave me
(48:57):
the gift that he gave me. It wasn't by mistake, but it was
on purpose. He gave me the kind of voice
that is neither black nor white.My I don't classify my music as
black music or white music. I just classify it as hopefully
good music, maybe even great music in in some senses.
(49:17):
I mean, that's my goal anyway, is to write music that, you
know, has lasting value. And so, and so that's the bottom
line. I just want to, you know, be a
person that God can use to encourage people regardless of
their race or their age or theirculture or their denomination.
And God uses this ministry, you know, to I think he's using my
(49:40):
ministry not to blend in, but tostand out.
And so one of the things that I'm learning and I'm still
learning is to, and I tell people this all the time, be
yourself. Everybody else has taken.
And that's what I'm learning is to, is to use my unique gifts
(50:02):
because there's only one of me. And I want to use the gifts that
God gave me and use them to the Max to make him look good.
And so that's, you know, that's the bottom line is if you're a
copy, if you're trying to copy somebody else, I heard somebody
say this years ago, that if you're a copy, then one of you
is unnecessary. You know, so do you.
(50:24):
Celebrate yourself, celebrate the gifts and talents that God
has given you and don't try to blend in, but try to stand out.
Be different and unique so that you can be a blessing and God
can use you to give Him glory. And, and the audience will come,
don't you think? I mean, the audience will find
you. And we don't have to necessarily
try to be like everybody else. Yeah, well, I've learned that
(50:48):
some days you have to let it happen and, you know, and watch
God move on your behalf. And then other days you have to
make it happen. You have to do your homework.
You have to show up. You've got to rehearse.
You got to have your act together.
You've got to memorize your music.
You've got to be a good songwriter or a good
communicator or a good author orwhatever it is that God has
(51:08):
called you to do. So there's this balancing act of
letting it happen and making it happen.
And when both of those things are in play, you know, you, you
do your part and leave the rest to God.
And that's what I'm, you know, trying to do.
And that's what I'm trying to teach, you know, my students is
do the best that you can study your craft.
(51:28):
You know, people ask me, well, you know, I don't really need to
study because the Internet will help me or I really don't need
to do my best because, you know,I can use artificial
intelligence. But I, I kind of take issue with
that because, you know, God requires our best and you know,
(51:51):
you can use auto tune and artificial intelligence and all
those kind of things to make beautiful music.
But when it comes time, you know, to stand on that stage,
you know, and deliver you, you got to be your best.
And that's what I'm, I'm trying to do and that's what I'm trying
to teach my students is to bringyour A game.
(52:11):
Every time you get up there, every time you put pen to paper
or every time you use a microphone or every time you
step up on a platform, bring your A game.
Because bottom line is you're doing it to the glory and the
honor of God and to, to encourage people.
And we will always want to bringour our best.
And he wants us to show up. You're right.
He wants us to do all the, the prep work that it takes to, to
(52:32):
do our best. So I think that's where we meet
with God. He'll, he'll move mountains,
open doors, all those things that we may not even know are
happening behind the scenes. But we have to be ready.
We have to be ready to shine when when those opportunities
come about. And after all, you know God gave
us his best, and so he he deserves nothing short of that,
right? That's absolutely right.
(52:54):
It's so interesting what you said a minute ago about you felt
like you were too black for white people and too white for
for black people. Do you feel like at that time
God was showing you that what you thought may be something
that was hurting you, it was actually your your greatest
strength because you were being unique and you were being you
and that He showed you that thatwas what He wanted you to be?
(53:16):
Absolutely. What I thought was a weakness
really was a strength. And I, and I'm glad you brought
that up because I, I want to encourage people who are
listening and watching today that the thing that you think is
the, is your weakest, is your weakness or a weak point is
really one of the things that God will use to, to launch you.
(53:40):
You know, the thing that you think is a set back is really a
set up to your to your greatness.
That's so true. I think about I think about Mary
like what I mean, if you think about what God did, it's she was
basically at the a teenage, a teenager who was pregnant and
you think about that, my gosh, you know, what kind of ridicule
(54:03):
would she have faced back in theday?
But that's what he chose. He chose her to bring Christ
into the world and chose a he could have had Jesus come down
on a huge throne and gold and but he didn't.
And I think that's that's a lesson there too, that you don't
have to be all these things thatare shiny and we just have to be
ourselves. And sometimes the most humble
(54:25):
people go on to do great things.You're absolutely right.
I I totally agree with that. And that's, that's my story.
You know, I'm just an ordinary girl from Jackson, MI.
And, you know, as a matter of fact, it's a small town, but
some great people have come out of Jackson.
I don't know if you're familiar with the name Tony Dungy.
(54:46):
Tony, Tony Dungy and I, I've graduated in the same class and
with the same high school together.
So, you know, you, you just never know who you're going to
impact and you never know how you're going to influence
someone. So, you know, be yourself.
Everybody else is taken. That's right, That's right.
(55:07):
I, I love him. I, I'd love to have him on the
show. He's he's such a sweet man.
Do you one thing I wanted to ask, we're almost time, but I
wanted to ask. We kind of talked about it with
the young people coming up. I know you have a special place
in your heart for people coming up and trying to showcase their
(55:27):
art and their talent. What would you say to somebody?
Because it can get so tough and the road can get rocky is
somebody who may doubt themselves or say, oh, this is
never going to happen for me. What kind of encouragement could
you give those young people coming up today?
Absolutely. First of all, I say it, and this
is coming from, from a teacher. OK, I, I've always been a
(55:49):
teacher. I taught middle high school
music for, for eight years and now I teach at the college
level, singers and songwriters. So number one, I say study your
craft and you can never look. I've been writing songs now for
40 years and I still, and I've and I've written some songs.
I think that, you know, a lot ofpeople sing and a lot of people
(56:12):
enjoy. But when it comes down when it
comes to the bottom line, I still think my Best Song is yet
to be written. I really believe that.
And my best book is yet to be written.
So I say study your craft, you know, know what it is you're
you're talking about. If you want to be a songwriter,
then be the best songwriter thatyou can be.
You know, not just depend on your natural talent, but study
(56:35):
how to write a great lyric, study how to write a beautiful
melody, collaborate, you know, depend on the strength and the
participation of others. That's the first thing I would
do. I would study and then I would
practice and you never can. Look, I've been on stage now 40
plus years and I still practice.I still rehearse.
(56:56):
I still sit at my piano just about every day, sing, write,
practice. So those those two things I
highly advise, learn your craft and then rehearse your craft and
then get on stage, get on stage whether it's and don't worry
about how big the stage is. Mainly, your stage is a Sunday
(57:17):
school class. Maybe your stage is your church,
you know, start at home. Maybe your stage is your
church's platform. Or maybe your stage is is your
school. Or maybe your stage is
volunteering at a Senior Center or a convalescent home.
It doesn't matter. Wherever there are people,
people need to be encouraged. Don't worry whether sometimes it
(57:39):
might cost you. You might have to pay for the
gas. You know, Don't worry about
getting paid. Just worry about not even worry,
but be more concerned about the impact that you're going to make
and not necessarily how much money you're going to make
because the, the, the impact is that you're making is eternal.
(57:59):
Money is temporary. And let me tell you, money will
come. So don't worry about the money.
Your needs will be met. So I say study your craft,
rehearse your craft, and then get on the stage and impact
people. Just get out there and do.
It. I think sometimes we we can, we
can paralyze ourselves sometimesby the what is it paralysis by
(58:22):
over analysis? Or, you know, we can, we can,
oh, I can't do this because of Xor that.
Or I think, like you said, you just got to you got to find some
place to be able to showcase it and get out there and just keep
doing it. One of my favorite prayers is a
10 finger prayer. I can do all things through
Christ who strengthens me. That's that's it.
(58:44):
That's it. Wow, baby.
Thank you so much you for spending time with me.
I can't tell you what a great time I had.
I hope you did too. It's always.
Always I enjoyed it. Thank you so very much for
inviting me. Of course, where can people find
your work or find you online? How can people get connected?
Yeah, I invite you to go to my official website, baby.com.
(59:07):
And by the way, at baby.com you'll see all kind of
resources, my books, my music. Of course, you know, my books
and music are all out there on, you know, all the platforms.
You can easily find them, but you can also find them at
baby.com. And also at baby.com, you'll see
a link to my Internet radio station.
And if you go to my website, you'll see a triangular button
(59:28):
that's turning around. Click that little button and
that will launch the radio station.
Press play and listen to beautiful music and encouraging
words 24 hours a day. The station is online.
You'll hear my music, you'll hear great worship music.
You'll hear great teaching. I play in the evening.
I play a block from like 6:30 to9:30.
Bible study programs. Charles Stanley, Tony Evans,
(59:51):
James Ford, Max Lucado, Kay Arthur, Priscilla Shire, all
these wonderful voices to encourage you and then a lot of
music and encouraging words 24 hours a day.
So check it out at baby.com and my links for social media are
there on the website. But it's it's, it's at Babbie
Mason. Whether that's Facebook or
(01:00:12):
Instagram or whatever, it's at Babbie Mason.
OK, Yeah, yeah, check, check baby out, go to her website and
and just follow all the. I mean, it's such a great
resource to have that on the. On the radio.
Station. That's awesome.
Wow, you're a very special lady,my friend.
Thank you so much for for comingon with me.
Thank you for having me, I enjoyed it.
(01:00:34):
Happiness Sold Separately is created and hosted by Jason
Hensley and is produced by Makash Films.
Narration by Lauren Gobis If youor someone you know is in crisis
and needs immediate help, call the National Mental Health
Hotline at 866-903-3787. We would be honored if you would
(01:00:58):
rate, share and subscribe. Bye.
That's a good one.
Coming up and so you have to really make the great effort to
take time for yourself. You know, fear, anxiety,
depression are constant, you know, battlefield for us and but
we can we can come against it ifwe are more intentional and if
we take the time, you know to invest.
(00:24):
Think it think of it as investing, you know, in
yourself. Think of it as investing in your
mental health and even your physical health to get outside,
you know, to breathe some fresh air, to put your phone down for,
you know, 5 or 10 minutes. This episode is sponsored by
Better Help. A couple years ago, I went
through one of the toughest health episodes of my life.
(00:46):
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(02:19):
Auto sequence start 54321 and now I'm with the show.
Hi, I'm Bobby Mason and my happiness is singing a song all.
(02:40):
Right. Hello, Bobby Mason, thanks so
much for coming on the show. Thank you for having me today.
Absolutely. It's so good to see you.
You're a you're a two time Dove award-winning Christian artist,
best selling author, speaker, TVshow host.
You're busy. I'm a, I'm a busy girl, you
know, I'm not letting any monster up underneath my feet.
(03:02):
It's better than the alternative, right?
Being busy. You know, I just want to use all
my gifts for God, you know, and,and even explore some things
that I have been at. Even at this stage of life, I'm
still making new discoveries. And that's what I love about
life. This is what I love about
ministry. What I love about creativity is
that, you know, as long as the music keeps playing, I keep
(03:26):
writing. As long as the the ideas keep
flowing, man, I keep chasing them.
That's what we got to do, I think.
I think we owe God a disservice if we're not using our talents
right in an active way like that.
Yeah, I think it was Irma Bombeck, one of my favorite,
definitely one of my favorite comedians.
(03:47):
But she said this. I see if I can quote this right.
She said when I stand before Godat the end of my life, I would
hope that I would not have a single bit of talent left.
But I could say to God, I used everything you gave me.
I've kind of adapted that as my as my mantra, so to speak.
I love that. Well, you've had, let's see, how
(04:09):
many something like 26 music projects.
Is that right 20? 6 Recorded Projects I'm Working
on #27 Right now I'm working on a Christmas project and which is
a lot of fun because I'm including my youngest son Chaz,
who is also a singer, and my producer friend Cheryl Rogers.
The three of us are planning a Christmas tour right now and I'm
(04:31):
also working on a new worship project.
So I've been writing, recording,singing, traveling, touring and
and planning my next tour. Wow, that's yeah, that keeps
you, that keeps you busy for sure, keeps you going.
And it's like, how many books have you written?
9 books is there. Nine books.
My latest book is called Each One Reach One Everyday Ways You
(04:55):
Can Shine God's Light. And the book encourages every
believer to take whatever it is that you know, whatever gift or
talent that God has placed in their hands, and use that to
shine their light and to share their faith and to tell others
about the Lord. Wow.
Where? Where do you think you get your
creative energy or inspiration from it?
(05:17):
Does that go all the way back toyour childhood growing up?
Yeah, a lot of it was taught. You know, a lot of it was taught
by my parents. My father was a pastor and my
parents and my mom was a wonderful singer.
Both of them are deceased now, but they came up from the South
during that era when a lot of black people were moving up from
(05:38):
the South to the northern states, you know, looking for
for work. And so my parents had this
innovation, this work ethic thatwas just highly commendable.
My dad started a church in Michigan.
That's where I was born. You know, after they moved N
they established Lily MissionaryBaptist Church in Jackson, MI,
(06:02):
which is where I was born and raised.
And so my, my parents, you know,they were like, the Bible says
all things to all people that they might win some.
I mean, they wore a lot of hats.My dad was a pastor.
He was also a writer. He was in the radio.
He was a county commissioner. He was a college professor.
He was a prison chaplain. So they were, you know, they,
(06:24):
they loved using all of their gifts.
They love serving people. So it comes naturally for me.
So a lot of it was caught and a lot of it was taught.
You know, I had wonderful mentors and teachers and great
access to education. I'm, I'm a lover of education.
I taught middle high school music for a lot of years and I
(06:47):
love higher Ed. I just got my master's degree a
couple of years ago from TribecaUniversity in Nashville, TN.
My plan is to go back and get mydoctorate after I finished with
a couple of other projects. I just love life.
I love, you know, I'm a continuous student.
I love learning, I love teachingwhat I think I know.
And I think a lot of that came from just growing up in a
(07:08):
household where education and pursuing our dreams was really
important. Wow, that it's so good to hear.
I mean, you look around sometimes today and you, I don't
know, you kind of wonder about the family dynamic and, and
what's going on And how important do you think as kids
for us coming up to see our parents have that work ethic and
(07:30):
to be able to, I mean, I think kids learn a lot just by, by
seeing how our parents operate and the things they go through.
Don't you? I mean just in life in general.
I mean, absolutely. And I, I still think that we are
carrying on, you know, that thatmindset and that work ethic with
my family. My youngest son, Chaz is a
(07:53):
singer. Crazy, crazy.
I'm not saying that's just because I'm his mother, but he
is a very, very gifted young man.
His name is Chaz Mason and he and I work closely together, he
writes. We serve together at Eastside
Baptist Church in Marietta, GA, where we both lead worship.
I'm on the road, you know, a couple Sundays or weekends a
(08:14):
month, so I'm not there as oftenas Chaz is.
He's there pretty much every Sunday on stage leading worship.
And so we get to serve together,we get to write together, record
together, we're touring some together.
And so I, I'd like to think thatwhat I was taught, you know, by
mom, by my mom and dad, I'm passing it on to my kids.
(08:35):
And how special is that to be able to work with your son like
that in a close relationship andin the church?
That's you can't ask for much more than that.
To me, it's the best of all worlds, you know what I'm
saying? It is the best, you know, it's
as the old musical song says, it's nice work if you can get
it, but it's, but it's also a great privilege to be able to do
(08:56):
what I love and love what I do. You know, that's just, to me,
it's a dream come true. Absolutely.
I'm not saying that it's not work because it is a lot of
work, but it is. It's it's bearing a lot of fruit
that I, you know, that I planteda lot of seeds in.
I get to do it. You know, I dreamed of doing
even even more than that. I get to, you know, travel and,
(09:19):
and meet people, meet people like you, speak to people, share
my dream, share my heart, my visions, impact people with my
words and my music. I mean, really, that that's a
blessing? Wow.
Well, I'm, I am honored to be able to talk to you.
So I, I, I agree with this conversation.
I just, I'm so glad you're here going back to your childhood a
(09:41):
little bit. Do you, what do you remember
most about, about those days with your your mom and your dad
in the church, but your dad having such a a leadership role
as a pastor? Do you, did you look at it like
that or was he just dad to you as a kid?
It was just Dad. I remember when I was a little
kid, I started taking piano lessons real early, like first
(10:04):
grade and studying classical music, music, the classical
composers like Bach and Brahms and, and Chopin.
And then I remember when I was about 9 years of, of age, a
vacancy came up in the church where the church needed a piano
player. And my dad, you know, saw that I
had this musical talent. And the next thing I know I was,
I was just, I wouldn't say forced, but I'm told I was, as
(10:30):
we, as we call it in my neighborhood, I was violent old.
I, I wouldn't, I wasn't volunteered.
I was violent old. I would be the next piano
player. And, you know, it was a big
responsibility for a nine year old, you know, all the
rehearsals and Sunday morning worship services.
And sometimes our church visitedother churches during the, you
know, midweek when I was, you know, having to do my homework
(10:53):
in the backseat of the car. But but what it established was
#1 you know, a discipline it, it, it established in me
opportunity to use all my gifts.If some, some of it was like
learning how to, it was like sink or swim because I had to
learn how to play the piano by ear.
(11:14):
My, my church didn't use music. So everything was learned.
Everything was taught by rote orby ear.
But that just helped me to navigate, I think the gifts and
the talents that I'm using today.
So it was a great jumping off point, you know, Yeah.
There was a time when in my teenage years when I kind of
resented the responsibility whenmy other friends, you know, were
(11:36):
dating or playing out in the street or going out with their
boyfriends or whatever. I was, you know, at choir
rehearsal or I was at a church worship service.
And so there were some sacrifices early on.
But I thank the Lord that it it paid off and it has contributed
to, you know, who I am today. So I'm grateful for that.
(11:58):
What what a special moment that your your dad saw that in you
and, you know, wouldn't let you,you know, get away per SE from
from that responsibility of the piano, because I feel like, you
know, our parents see things in US and and encourage us to try
different things or to go forward with something.
And and, you know, that's that'sagain goes back to that tight
knit family That's so important.I totally agree.
(12:22):
I, I'm in the middle of five and, you know, I could say that
about all of my siblings, not just me.
My oldest brother is a retired pastor.
My older brother is a journalist.
You know, my, my sister is a, she's a middle school math
coach, but she's also an entrepreneur.
(12:43):
My youngest brother works for the state of Michigan.
But we all, you know, have, you know, gifts and talents that we
use in other, other businesses or other endeavors.
We work together on some projects, so you know, it's not
just me that caught this love for life and this
entrepreneurial spirit, but my other siblings as well.
(13:03):
Wow, that's great. That is awesome.
You know, I, I think with their dads, I think moms and dads are
both important, but I think withtheir dads, there's that
relationship where you, you get,you know, that fatherly advice
sometimes or the wisdom that they put out.
Do you, do you remember anythingthat that sticks with you today
that your dad, dad told you as you're coming up?
Oh, yeah, my dad was an avid reader and a wonderful.
(13:27):
I would kind of equate my dad tolike that preacher like Martin
Luther King or CL Franklin, Aretha Franklin's dad, you know,
that Mississippi preacher that had this, this delivery, like it
was almost like as if they were singing their sermons, you know,
(13:47):
and what, what what we would call in the black church, the a
hoop, you know, where they wouldbegin or preach like that, you
know, and the church, it was this rhythm that was, you know,
that was that was established when dad was preaching.
But along the line, my dad, my dad just loved great reading,
great quotes. And I remember my dad using kind
(14:09):
of as his, as his life, some words that he used for life.
He used to say, if God is your partner, make your plans larger.
And he had a radio broadcast andsomething funny about the radio
broadcast, about the radio broadcast.
It was on a local radio station on a Sunday morning from 9:00 to
(14:30):
9:30. And immediately after the
program was the, the, what was the name of the, it was the
program that immediately followed ours was the polka
hour. And so and so right out of my
dad's sermon, my dad would be right in the middle of preaching
the Gospel, you know, and he would be preaching about Jesus
(14:52):
on the cross and Jesus conquering death, hell, sin in
the grave. And the next thing you would
hear is roll out the barrel. We'll have a barrel of fun.
It was my dad was, he just rolled with the punches, you
know? Yeah, He was a big dreamer and
he loved the quote. If God is your partner, make
(15:13):
your plans larger. And so we've, we've just, you
know, done our best to carry outthat dream, you know?
That's so true. I mean if you've got God on your
side you there's nothing that's impossible in front of you,
that's for sure. I bet your dad loved that.
He got a kick out of that. Probably the the polka stuff.
Oh, listen, we have recordings of it.
We recorded, you know, some of those sermons and it's, it's
(15:33):
hilarious because, you know, he didn't have a nice clean cut
into the program. So he was right in the middle of
his sermon. They would, you know, end the
show and and roll right into thenext program.
So we just took it as it came, you know?
Yeah, yeah, sorry about my Co producers here.
The the puppies are are getting getting wild.
(15:54):
Sorry about I. Don't think you can hear that,
Sorry. We have.
Dogs too. I love that when you're a minute
ago talking about the the kind of almost singing with with the
sermon is that where does that style?
What are the roots of that? Because I'm very interested in
that. That style is that to, I don't
know, somehow help keep the congregation interested.
(16:15):
And there's like a rhythm to that, to that sermon style.
Well, I remember my daddy sayingoften he said that he wouldn't
serve a God that he couldn't feel.
And that kind of preaching is not only informative, it's not
only spiritual, but it's also emotional.
(16:37):
And, you know, the, the black church, the back, the black
community has come from a history of pain, A history of
heartache, a history of loss. And the black, the black
preacher, he has, he historically is all things to
(16:58):
all people. I mean, he, I remember my, my
dad as a little girl, my dad would get phone calls in the
middle of the night from, you know, because somebody died or
somebody was in jail or somebodywas in the hospital or somebody
was sick. Somebody needed legal advice.
And oftentimes they were hesitant to call a lawyer or
hesitant to call somebody in thecommunity because they didn't
(17:21):
trust that person. And so, but they trusted the
black preacher. And so the black preacher was
the liaison. He was that person in the middle
that assisted everybody in the community.
And my daddy was that person. And so I think that style of
preaching comes from this need to have not only a not only a
spiritual outlet, but an emotional outlet.
(17:43):
And that's why, you know, when we sing, we shout, we cry, we we
clap, we dance because we believe in making a joyful noise
to the Lord. But it is also this way of
expressing our worship physically.
You know, the Bible says, make ajoyful noise, clap your hand,
shout unto God. And that was our way.
(18:04):
And this still is our way of expressing our worship.
Wow. And I, you know, you don't think
about that sometimes with the role of a pastor, but yeah, it's
he takes on several jobs as kindof like, like you said, a
counselor, someone who's passed or someone who needs him.
That had to really pull on him, I guess is a dear and that has a
(18:26):
lot of emotional energy that that he had to spend.
Absolutely. But and I love it.
You know, I have this opportunity of growing up in the
black church and I went to school, I got my degree from a
free Methodist college and I gotmy master's degree from a
Nazarene college. I teach at a Church of God
(18:47):
university. So, you know, I think I'm kind
of taking on that same vision ofmy father of, you know, serving
all people, serving people, justkind of being this person who
loves the church, loves people regardless of their race or
denomination or their background.
I just want to be used of God toserve people and to bring them
(19:11):
closer to God, to help them fulfill their dreams and to be a
blessing to the body of Christ at large, you know?
Yeah, absolutely. Does it worry you at all when
you look around today that how divided we all seem?
Do you do you think that we're missing something that that
could bring us together? Or is it is it to blame of the
(19:31):
media and politics? And how do we how do we get to a
better place, I guess, with where we are?
Or are we just is it? I'll often think of it as you
know, division seems to be a bigbusiness.
And if we are divided, it seems,and we're fighting amongst each
other, it, it seems like the government can get away with
stuff or we're not really payingattention to the to the ball as
(19:52):
it were. You know what's going on?
Well, I think for the most part nothing has changed.
I think men, people will always be.
They'll always be this, this division between people because
everybody thinks they're right, you know?
Yeah. But I think the media oftentimes
(20:16):
contributes to the frenzy. And now that we're in the
information age, it's information overload, which
conjures up fear, which conjuresup division.
And all of those things that keeps people at odds with one
(20:37):
another. And that's why I love what I do,
because I get to write songs, sing songs, write books that I
hope will bring down, you know, a lot of that.
And if I can, you know, do that one person at a time, then I
think my mission is accomplished.
(20:58):
I and I think it is. I get a lot of mail, a lot of
emails, a lot of communication online from people who, you
know, are letting me know that my songs are a source of comfort
and hope to them. And so I think if we, you know,
here again, if we take whatever we have in our hand and use it
to bring one another, to bring the body of Christ or bring the
(21:20):
world together, then, you know, we can't.
Yeah, the government has its place and the media has its
place. But I think every one of us has
a responsibility to contribute whatever we have in our hand and
use love as a, as a, as a mediumto do it, Then we can do our
part to make the world a better place.
(21:41):
And that's just not something nice to say.
But it really can't happen because I'm seeing it happen in
my own world. I, I believe so too.
I, I believe that using our talents, being able to, like you
said, use love in that case and really listen to one another and
just realize that that we are all in this together.
(22:01):
I mean, there's, there's a lot of things that we could point
out to say that we're different from this way or that way, but
there's a lot more that that we find ourselves alike than we do
different. I think that's what we need to.
I mean, listen, I got a not longago, I got a picture.
I wrote a song called Trust His Heart.
And the lyrics say the chorus says God is too wise to be
(22:24):
mistaken. God is too good to be unkind
when you don't understand, when you don't see his plan, when you
can't trace his hand, trust his heart.
And recently I got a picture of a ladies of her mother's
headstone with those words carved in her mother's
(22:45):
headstone. And I mean, when you see that
and you realize that something that you say or something that
you wrote or something that you said in a podcast or something
that you put in a book or something that you said from a
platform impacted somebody's life to the degree that they
(23:05):
chiseled it in their mother's headstone.
I mean, that just brings it. That just brings life right down
to, you know, where the rubber meets the road.
And that is what I think keeps me, keeps me just humble.
And I got a matter of fact, I got a, a letter today in the
mail from a lady from North Carolina who is a member of a, a
(23:29):
quilting club. And she, the name of her group
is called the Sisterhood. And she wrote me to tell me that
one Sunday this month, they're going to celebrate their third
anniversary and they are going to March into the church using a
one of my songs called A Place Called Sisterhood as their theme
song. And so when you when you hear
(23:50):
those kind of stories, I mean, we're talking about real people,
real life, real stories, real impact.
And to me, that is the kind of difference that I want to make,
you know? Wow, absolutely.
Those are. And those are are like little
winks from God, aren't they? I mean, they kind of big, big
show. You're on the right track.
It just lets you know that, you know, you plant a seed and you
(24:10):
water that seed. Now the Bible says some plant
some water, but God gives the increase.
And if I can plant a seed or water a seed and watch it bear
fruit in the life of somebody who's encouraged by a song that
I sang or something that I wroteor, or, or said from the
platform, then that's, that's just a a little help from God
(24:31):
that I must be doing maybe a little something, right?
I love that. I love that story.
That's so it gives you hope to hear things like that because it
you realize that God is watchingand God does give you those
those graces to know that you'rewhat your work is, is righteous
when you're when you're putting it out there.
Not that it's, it's us, it's we're, we're being used by God,
but it's just kind of gives you that, that hope, I guess, in the
(24:55):
world. You're absolutely right.
You've got a lot of a lot of your songs now are are really
considered modern day church classics and that story is is an
example of that. Do you have a favorite or
favorite collaboration over the years?
You know, I kind of look at my songs kind of like my kids.
You know, they're conceived in love and they, a lot of them
(25:19):
will grow up and leave home. I have just as many, if not more
in the file cabinet, you know, that other people will never
see. But I love them just the same.
And so you, it's like pick a day.
I love different things on different days and love them for
different reasons. I do love trust his heart.
All Rise is probably one of the more popular songs.
(25:41):
It's one of the oldest songs that I've written.
I love standing in the gap. I love with all my heart.
I love God will open up the windows and pour you out a
blessing, which is a duet that Idid with my mother.
It's on YouTube. My mom is deceased, but the
(26:03):
YouTube video is into the well into the many thousands.
So my mom is a YouTube sensation.
Yeah, that's, that's really cool.
My mom and I recorded this song a few years, many years ago,
back in the back in the early 2000s.
And it's called God will Open upthe Window.
So I have a lot of songs that that I love and a lot of people
(26:27):
enjoy listening to. I wrote AI wrote a song.
I did a record called. What was the name of the record
called? Oh, what was that record called?
It was a jazz record. Anyway, there was a song on the
record called Play It Again and another song called simply I
(26:48):
Love You. And these songs are, are written
in kind of like a jazz style. And this shows off a lot of the
cool songwriting techniques. So I love those songs for the,
for the writing style and the singing style.
I, I'm a jazz I, I'm a jazz aficionado and love the style
(27:08):
of, of jazz and love singing jazz.
And so this record, play it again simply, I love you
Timeless. The name of the the name of the
record is called Timeless. Those songs are, I love that
style and I love those songs forthat reason.
So I have a lot of favorites andbut those are some.
(27:30):
Those are a few of the favorites.
I I love jazz too. I think the one thing I love
about jazz and the history of jazz is it's still very much
played today, but popular. I mean, it's that music is kind
of like they were the early, early days.
They were ahead of their time a little bit.
You know, it was just a, it's just such a really.
You know, the genre will never, it's kind of like, you know, R&B
(27:53):
and and gospel. It's a genre that is
foundational to our culture. And so it'll never grow, it'll
never grow old and it'll never die.
And there's a part of me that here again, it's that love of
the, of the genre and that stylethat helps me emotionally
express myself. And so that's why that's why I
love the style. Growing up in the, you know,
(28:15):
coming of age in the 70s and, and living outside of growing up
outside of Motown, being influenced by, you know, the
likes of Aretha and Roberta and Gladys and all of those Queens
of R&B, you know, that we call them by their first name.
I mean, they, their music changed my life.
And there was one lady who was aChristian singer.
(28:38):
She was one of Andre Crouch's disciples.
And I, I loved her music probably most of all because
she, she had that R&B kind of a style like Motown, but she sang
and wrote Christian music. And her name is Danny Belle
Hall. I don't know if you've heard of
her, but you need to check out Danielle Hall.
(28:58):
Her music. Yeah, she's, she's deceased now,
but her music was to me, the epitome of contemporary gospel
music because she incorporated all of that.
She was a singer. He was a songwriter.
He was a piano player. She was an amazing communicator
and performer. And yet she wrote music for God.
And so I consider her, besides my mother, I consider Danny Bell
(29:21):
Hall probably, you know, the ultimate mentor for me because
she incorporated all of those gifts and she dedicated her
gifts and talents to to gospel music.
And I love her. Her style she's still in is made
today. Wow.
And, and, and all those women that you mentioned and, and, and
yourself included there, you're such great storytellers because
(29:43):
I think in any art form, you have to be a great storyteller
and in order to get that messageout, don't you?
I mean, I think that's the core issue of that, because it's
emotion and it's telling a story.
Listen, that's what life is made-up of.
You know, every day is a different story.
And I've come to the find and learn the value of story.
(30:04):
And when if you read my books, you'll see and hear, you know, a
lot of anecdotal illustrations, a lot about my life, a lot about
my parents life. Because listen, you're, you're
the one with your own story. And if you don't tell it, it
won't get told. And I, I found that when we tell
(30:26):
our story, three things happen. When we tell our story.
Number one, I get blessed by telling it, another person gets
blessed by hearing it, and then God gets the glory.
So you know, I just want to encourage you, congratulations
on your podcast and and I'm grateful that you're telling
your story and that you're giving other people the
(30:47):
opportunity to tell their stories on this platform.
So, you know, this is this is the era of storytelling.
And so I just want to encourage those that are watching this
podcast, you know, to get your story out there and particularly
your, your, your God story, you know, online or, or on in, in a
podcast or in an e-mail or in a text message, however you get it
(31:09):
out there, tell your story to make God look good.
Yeah, wow. So well said.
I mean, I think story is something that I think takes us
back and connects us from, from years and years ago.
I mean, from the first humans were telling stories and we see
that on markings on on cave walls.
And I mean, there's the storytelling has been around for
(31:31):
for eons. And I think, you know, like you
said, that's something that justit, it withstands time and the
legacy it just carries on through.
Wow, I know another thing I wanted to, to to ask you about.
I know women's issues and, and bringing women closer to Jesus
is is really important to you. Is is there a story behind that
(31:51):
particular ministry with women? Is this something close to your
heart? Listen, I have so, so many
stories. I could tell you the story of my
mother, as I told you a moment ago that my mother is a was a
phenomenal singer. As a matter of fact, I have a
couple of double awards right there.
(32:13):
And I won a double award for recorded Gospel song of the year
for Stop by the Church, which was a duet with my mother.
And we won that double award in 1996.
So that's a great story. But I'll tell you one something
that my mother said. We did an interview one day.
It was a Mother's Day weekend and my mom was in Michigan on
the phone and I was here in Georgia on the phone.
(32:35):
And the, the, the guy that was hosting the show asked my mother
for some closing words. And these words I will never
forget that my mother said, she said to the listening audience,
and I'll share this story. She said, I could tell you this
is what my mother said. She said, I could tell you to
hang in there. You know how a lot of people
will say that that will be theirresponse when you ask how
(32:56):
they're doing. They'll say, well, I'm hanging
in there. Or my mother said, I'm not going
to tell you to hang in there because when you're hanging in
there, you're exposed. When you're hanging in there,
you're at risk. You are dashed about by the
elements. So I'm not going to tell you to
hang in there, but instead I'm going to tell you to stand in
there. The book of Ephesians chapter 6
(33:16):
tell us, tells us, having done all, to stand, stand therefore
and put on the whole armor of God that you might be able to
withstand the fiery darts of thewicked one.
She says we don't have to hang in there.
We can stand in there because Jesus hung in there for us.
So I carry those words with me. You know, don't hang in there.
(33:37):
Stand in there. And my mother reminded me of
that many years ago. And so did this to this moment.
You know, I don't take this position of, you know, just a
lackadaisical stance or you knowthis, well, it'll work out.
No, I take this position that itwill work out because God is on
my side. That will work out because, you
(33:58):
know, I believe God's word that now unto him who was able to do
exceedingly abundantly above allthat I could ask or think
according to the power that works within me.
And so my mom, you know, was a great, she was a great woman.
She was a motivator and she justhad this, this consternation,
you know, this constitution thatwas just unbendable.
(34:23):
Her resolve was she had a resolve of steel.
And I carry her, you know, her, her determination and her love
with me. And I'd like to think that, you
know, it encourages me and is a part of the fuel that, you know,
keeps me going. You know, when you say the story
(34:44):
to hang in there, I get the image of, you know, if you're
hanging in there, I, I image of a storm, you're like, you're
exposed to the elements. You don't really know what's
going to happen. But if you're standing in there,
you're facing the storm and confidence and knowing that
you're going to get through it. So I, I like that.
I love that image. That is the message.
That is the message. That's the bottom line.
Yep, Jesus will. He never promised that we
(35:07):
wouldn't have storms, but he didpromise that he would be there
with us and, and give us a path through.
So I love that. Do you, you know, women, strong
women, they're the cornerstone of, of families.
And I think, you know, that's they're so important.
Do you, do you ever worry about that, about women?
And like, I don't know, just the, the society today, it seems
(35:31):
like in the past we took, I guess I don't know if we took a
better, gave it more importance,but it just seems like some of
the family unit just seems to befalling away.
And I think that takes a strong father and strong mother.
But these strong women like thatwe grew up with, I just feel
like they're, they're really special.
Yes, I am blessed to and this issomething that I do
(35:55):
intentionally and I think you have to be intentional.
I am a part of a community of women that we meet every Monday
online for an hour where we, we encourage one another, we pray
for one another. We, we have this bond where we
share in confidentiality, you know, what's going on in our
(36:17):
world. And there are other women in
ministry, other women in creative arts.
And we do this on a weekly basis.
And I think we need to, you know, to be very intentional
because these kind of things just don't happen.
You have to make them happen. And, and that's why I'm really
(36:39):
intentional about meeting with this group every week.
And I try not to miss unless there's something of an
emergent, you know, kind of a situation.
But I, I highly recommend that you become a part of a, a
family, obviously your family, but, but being a part of a
community where you can be strengthened and encouraged by
(37:02):
people of like mine and, and, and maybe even like giftedness,
because we're living in a day and age where there's so much
coming against us that can I call them the D words, you know,
that can discourage us, keep us despondent, distracted,
distorted, diseased. So yeah, I, I highly recommend
(37:27):
being a part of a community where you can be encouraged or
you can share your life, where you can maybe even share
projects or entrepreneurial endeavors.
You know these, It's so important to stay connected.
Absolutely. I think, you know, given the
chance, the devil works really hard to try to tear us down.
Especially I've found when we always think, OK, I'm on the
(37:51):
right track if I'm trying to be destroyed by Satan or he's
trying to put a wrench in that, you know, and stop it.
That's happened to me a couple times where we've tried to get
projects off the ground. And you know, I would either I
don't know, to get really exhausted, tired, just seem like
I was being worn out and worn out by the devil because you
just feel that that's he doesn'twant that to happen.
(38:11):
And it's like, you know, what you're trying to do is for God
and on the right path because hewouldn't come after you so hard
if if it wasn't. So community can really you can.
Know you're doing something right when you have opposition.
You know, from spiritual forces that try to keep you from
accomplishing your goals. So if you're, if you're getting
(38:34):
pushed back, you know from theseforces that that doesn't mean
that you throw in the towel and you quit, but it means that you
double your, your efforts and that you and you pray and you
work and you don't get tired. And if you do take a break but
don't quit, you know, don't throw in the towel, but you keep
going and, and you make headway,even if it's a little headway.
(38:58):
But if you keep doing it and youkeep working at it, and you know
that you're called and you know that this is something that God
wants you to do, then you keep going until the project is done.
Yeah, but my dad says a lot. He says make sure you're right
and then go forward, you know, make sure you're in a, in a, in
a point where it's forgot or it's you're doing something in
(39:19):
the in the right. I like it.
Don't let anything stop you. Yeah, I, I love this quote I
read on your website about getting closer to God in Christ
means being a good listener. I love that just because of what
we try to do with storytelling and and documentary work and
journalism. It's being good listeners.
It is very important. What does that mean to you?
(39:41):
Well, I have this opportunity tokind of do what you're doing.
I have a television show called Babbie's House and it's seen on
or we record the show at WATCTV 57 here in Atlanta.
But it's everywhere. It's it's online.
You can go. You can search for Babbie's
(40:02):
House. And something that I've
discovered, because sometimes I don't get the information, the
book or the the bio information until like the the author or the
singer is like walking on, you know?
Yeah, I don't have a whole lot of time sometimes to do a lot of
background information. But what I've learned is if you
are, if you're a good listener, and what that means is it means
(40:25):
being genuinely concerned. It means being genuinely
interested in that person that you're that you're talking with.
And if you lean in and listen and make it about them and, and
remembering to ask those five WSand an H who, what, when, where,
(40:48):
how and why and, and be genuinely interested in what
you're hearing. I sometimes I don't even look at
my notes. I just lean in and listen to
what they're saying. And the, the, the interview is,
is real easy. And so I, I, we are in the age
of telling our story, but I think we're also in an age of
(41:11):
being a good listener and practicing being a good
listener. Because if you look at a lot,
you know, what's going on out there in the world, not a whole
lot of, sometimes not a lot of listening is happening.
It's everybody's throwing, you know, darts and, and fireballs
and, and, and words and, and their cause and refuting what
(41:31):
somebody else is saying. And I think sometimes if we just
be quiet and listen to what the other person is saying, a lot of
that you'll find that what they're saying really has value,
you know, and it you might even learn something, you might even
be encouraged. And it might be something that
you can pass on to others and and find it real valuable.
(41:57):
So true. I, I worry about the younger
generation too with the, I thinkwe're all, we could probably be
guilty of our phones and and social media and stuff like
that. But I think the younger
generation that, that never grewup without a device, I, I worry
about their conversation skills and their ability to listen
because I don't know, it's a wayto kind of hide behind things
(42:18):
and you're in front of a screen all day.
It's just it's not good emotionally or mentally for for
kids. Yeah, I teach at a couple of
universities this semester and the devices in the classroom,
sometimes I'm just concerned that my students are not even
that they're not even listening to me because, you know, they're
(42:39):
distracted by that device that'sin their hand.
And so you have to really, as a,as a professor, you have to be
really creative to make sure that students are getting the
content and getting the information that you're trying
to communicate. So it, it can be a real
challenge to teach in the day ofelectronic devices in the
classroom. It's it is a challenge, but
(43:01):
hopefully we are, you know, we're making some impact with
students. I love teaching songwriting and
I love teaching what I think I know about writing books.
But it's a battle, you know, when you have to deal with
devices in the classroom. What can we do to to, I guess,
in order to be still? I think there's a lot of power
in that, lot of peace. And that helps us listen to God
(43:23):
too, to be still and just listento him and see what he's telling
us. Is it for these young people and
for everybody? Really?
What's do you think there are some keys there?
Or is it just a matter of putting the phone down and just
having some self-discipline to be still?
Well, I think that's a good place to start earlier today.
And I, I just, we live, we happen to live out here in the
(43:46):
country. And I'm a city girl by by birth
and a city girl by nature. I love my city, but there are
some benefits to living out herein the country.
And just today and you know, theweather is so beautiful and I, I
took a little ride down. We have a lake behind our house
(44:06):
and I took a moment to just ridedown to the lake and I put my
phone up and I just, you know, opened up my car door and took a
little stroll out by the lake. And I had some some fish food
and I fed the fish. And, you know, I could have and
often times I do. I'm in a hurry, you know, I
(44:29):
missed those opportunities. But today I was just drawn to to
go down to the lake and spend some time without my phone, with
just D briefing, you know, and, and you're right, you have to,
you have to be intentional. If not, those moments will be
stolen by busyness and anxiety and time thieves and you know,
(44:52):
the clock and e-mail and phone calls.
And so you have to really make the a great effort to take time
for yourself. You know, fear, anxiety,
depression are constant, you know, battlefields for us.
And but we can, we can come against it if we are more
(45:15):
intentional and if we take the time, you know, to invest.
Think it, think of it as investing, you know, in
yourself. Think of it as investing in your
mental health and even your physical health to get outside,
you know, to breathe some fresh air, to put your phone down for,
you know, 5 or 10 minutes and watch, you know, instead of
(45:36):
watching your screen man. I put the phone down and I watch
the birds, I watch the fish, I watch the sky, I watch the water
like stars on the water when theas the water was glistening in
the sunlight. And it was so good.
It was so it was such a blessingto be able to spend a few
moments in peace and solitude. And, and we need it.
(46:00):
And you have to, as you say, we have to be intentional to get
it. Absolutely.
And there's, there's studies that are done that that, that we
as humans need to be near water.And I think they've done studies
where just by walking along water or looking at water for a
short time, that does something internally and it, it helps you
fight those, those battles of depression and anxiety and
(46:22):
stress. So yeah, there's definitely
something to that. And then also it connects you
with God. Yeah.
Yeah. Psalm 23 says, yeah, though I
walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no
evil. The Lord is my shepherd.
I shall not want. He maketh me lie down in green
pastures. He leads me besides still
waters, you know. So God invites us, you know, to
(46:45):
to talk with him. He invites us to find those
peaceful moments where we can clear our head and get rid of
anxiety. So yeah, it's it's good for us
and it's necessary for us. Did you ever go through times?
I'm, I'm sure you have, but likeearly on when you're, when
you're trying to carve out what you wanted to do for for God in
(47:06):
your art, Did you ever come through times where you just
felt like, Oh my gosh, Satan is working so hard against me.
Am I going to get through this? Am I going to be successful for
God? Not necessarily, you know,
taking it upon yourself, but didyou, how did you get through
those times when you just the battle is fierce.
You know, those times come to all of us and they certainly
came knocking on my door. I remember very vividly when I
(47:29):
was still trying to figure out, you know, who who I am or who I
was to be stylistically and musically.
Growing up near Detroit, MI, which is like a a Mecca for
gospel music. You got, you know, so many great
artists that came out of Detroitboth, you know, on the R&B side
and in the gospel side. And I tried to be, you know,
(47:52):
like a lot of those gospel artists as a female artist, you
know, there's a stereotypical thing that if you're a black,
black female artist, then you have to shout or, you know, or
scream or do all of these vocal licks.
And, and I tried to do those things, but like on a Sunday,
but then on Monday I would have laryngitis.
I tried screaming and shouting and doing all those licks, but
(48:14):
it just, it just wasn't my style.
And there was this part of me that felt like I was too black
for white people and I was too white for black people and I
didn't fit in and I felt like grey, you know, like I just was
a square peg in a round hole. And then as I began to, you
know, develop my music ministry and career, and I began to look
(48:36):
out in the audience and I began to see this beautiful cross
section of not just white peopleor black people, but this
beautiful mix of ages and races and cultures coming together in
in to worship. And I realized that God gave me
(48:57):
the gift that he gave me. It wasn't by mistake, but it was
on purpose. He gave me the kind of voice
that is neither black nor white.My I don't classify my music as
black music or white music. I just classify it as hopefully
good music, maybe even great music in in some senses.
(49:17):
I mean, that's my goal anyway, is to write music that, you
know, has lasting value. And so, and so that's the bottom
line. I just want to, you know, be a
person that God can use to encourage people regardless of
their race or their age or theirculture or their denomination.
And God uses this ministry, you know, to I think he's using my
(49:40):
ministry not to blend in, but tostand out.
And so one of the things that I'm learning and I'm still
learning is to, and I tell people this all the time, be
yourself. Everybody else has taken.
And that's what I'm learning is to, is to use my unique gifts
(50:02):
because there's only one of me. And I want to use the gifts that
God gave me and use them to the Max to make him look good.
And so that's, you know, that's the bottom line is if you're a
copy, if you're trying to copy somebody else, I heard somebody
say this years ago, that if you're a copy, then one of you
is unnecessary. You know, so do you.
(50:24):
Celebrate yourself, celebrate the gifts and talents that God
has given you and don't try to blend in, but try to stand out.
Be different and unique so that you can be a blessing and God
can use you to give Him glory. And, and the audience will come,
don't you think? I mean, the audience will find
you. And we don't have to necessarily
try to be like everybody else. Yeah, well, I've learned that
(50:48):
some days you have to let it happen and, you know, and watch
God move on your behalf. And then other days you have to
make it happen. You have to do your homework.
You have to show up. You've got to rehearse.
You got to have your act together.
You've got to memorize your music.
You've got to be a good songwriter or a good
communicator or a good author orwhatever it is that God has
(51:08):
called you to do. So there's this balancing act of
letting it happen and making it happen.
And when both of those things are in play, you know, you, you
do your part and leave the rest to God.
And that's what I'm, you know, trying to do.
And that's what I'm trying to teach, you know, my students is
do the best that you can study your craft.
(51:28):
You know, people ask me, well, you know, I don't really need to
study because the Internet will help me or I really don't need
to do my best because, you know,I can use artificial
intelligence. But I, I kind of take issue with
that because, you know, God requires our best and you know,
(51:51):
you can use auto tune and artificial intelligence and all
those kind of things to make beautiful music.
But when it comes time, you know, to stand on that stage,
you know, and deliver you, you got to be your best.
And that's what I'm, I'm trying to do and that's what I'm trying
to teach my students is to bringyour A game.
(52:11):
Every time you get up there, every time you put pen to paper
or every time you use a microphone or every time you
step up on a platform, bring your A game.
Because bottom line is you're doing it to the glory and the
honor of God and to, to encourage people.
And we will always want to bringour our best.
And he wants us to show up. You're right.
He wants us to do all the, the prep work that it takes to, to
(52:32):
do our best. So I think that's where we meet
with God. He'll, he'll move mountains,
open doors, all those things that we may not even know are
happening behind the scenes. But we have to be ready.
We have to be ready to shine when when those opportunities
come about. And after all, you know God gave
us his best, and so he he deserves nothing short of that,
right? That's absolutely right.
(52:54):
It's so interesting what you said a minute ago about you felt
like you were too black for white people and too white for
for black people. Do you feel like at that time
God was showing you that what you thought may be something
that was hurting you, it was actually your your greatest
strength because you were being unique and you were being you
and that He showed you that thatwas what He wanted you to be?
(53:16):
Absolutely. What I thought was a weakness
really was a strength. And I, and I'm glad you brought
that up because I, I want to encourage people who are
listening and watching today that the thing that you think is
the, is your weakest, is your weakness or a weak point is
really one of the things that God will use to, to launch you.
(53:40):
You know, the thing that you think is a set back is really a
set up to your to your greatness.
That's so true. I think about I think about Mary
like what I mean, if you think about what God did, it's she was
basically at the a teenage, a teenager who was pregnant and
you think about that, my gosh, you know, what kind of ridicule
(54:03):
would she have faced back in theday?
But that's what he chose. He chose her to bring Christ
into the world and chose a he could have had Jesus come down
on a huge throne and gold and but he didn't.
And I think that's that's a lesson there too, that you don't
have to be all these things thatare shiny and we just have to be
ourselves. And sometimes the most humble
(54:25):
people go on to do great things.You're absolutely right.
I I totally agree with that. And that's, that's my story.
You know, I'm just an ordinary girl from Jackson, MI.
And, you know, as a matter of fact, it's a small town, but
some great people have come out of Jackson.
I don't know if you're familiar with the name Tony Dungy.
(54:46):
Tony, Tony Dungy and I, I've graduated in the same class and
with the same high school together.
So, you know, you, you just never know who you're going to
impact and you never know how you're going to influence
someone. So, you know, be yourself.
Everybody else is taken. That's right, That's right.
(55:07):
I, I love him. I, I'd love to have him on the
show. He's he's such a sweet man.
Do you one thing I wanted to ask, we're almost time, but I
wanted to ask. We kind of talked about it with
the young people coming up. I know you have a special place
in your heart for people coming up and trying to showcase their
(55:27):
art and their talent. What would you say to somebody?
Because it can get so tough and the road can get rocky is
somebody who may doubt themselves or say, oh, this is
never going to happen for me. What kind of encouragement could
you give those young people coming up today?
Absolutely. First of all, I say it, and this
is coming from, from a teacher. OK, I, I've always been a
(55:49):
teacher. I taught middle high school
music for, for eight years and now I teach at the college
level, singers and songwriters. So number one, I say study your
craft and you can never look. I've been writing songs now for
40 years and I still, and I've and I've written some songs.
I think that, you know, a lot ofpeople sing and a lot of people
(56:12):
enjoy. But when it comes down when it
comes to the bottom line, I still think my Best Song is yet
to be written. I really believe that.
And my best book is yet to be written.
So I say study your craft, you know, know what it is you're
you're talking about. If you want to be a songwriter,
then be the best songwriter thatyou can be.
You know, not just depend on your natural talent, but study
(56:35):
how to write a great lyric, study how to write a beautiful
melody, collaborate, you know, depend on the strength and the
participation of others. That's the first thing I would
do. I would study and then I would
practice and you never can. Look, I've been on stage now 40
plus years and I still practice.I still rehearse.
(56:56):
I still sit at my piano just about every day, sing, write,
practice. So those those two things I
highly advise, learn your craft and then rehearse your craft and
then get on stage, get on stage whether it's and don't worry
about how big the stage is. Mainly, your stage is a Sunday
(57:17):
school class. Maybe your stage is your church,
you know, start at home. Maybe your stage is your
church's platform. Or maybe your stage is is your
school. Or maybe your stage is
volunteering at a Senior Center or a convalescent home.
It doesn't matter. Wherever there are people,
people need to be encouraged. Don't worry whether sometimes it
(57:39):
might cost you. You might have to pay for the
gas. You know, Don't worry about
getting paid. Just worry about not even worry,
but be more concerned about the impact that you're going to make
and not necessarily how much money you're going to make
because the, the, the impact is that you're making is eternal.
(57:59):
Money is temporary. And let me tell you, money will
come. So don't worry about the money.
Your needs will be met. So I say study your craft,
rehearse your craft, and then get on the stage and impact
people. Just get out there and do.
It. I think sometimes we we can, we
can paralyze ourselves sometimesby the what is it paralysis by
(58:22):
over analysis? Or, you know, we can, we can,
oh, I can't do this because of Xor that.
Or I think, like you said, you just got to you got to find some
place to be able to showcase it and get out there and just keep
doing it. One of my favorite prayers is a
10 finger prayer. I can do all things through
Christ who strengthens me. That's that's it.
(58:44):
That's it. Wow, baby.
Thank you so much you for spending time with me.
I can't tell you what a great time I had.
I hope you did too. It's always.
Always I enjoyed it. Thank you so very much for
inviting me. Of course, where can people find
your work or find you online? How can people get connected?
Yeah, I invite you to go to my official website, baby.com.
(59:07):
And by the way, at baby.com you'll see all kind of
resources, my books, my music. Of course, you know, my books
and music are all out there on, you know, all the platforms.
You can easily find them, but you can also find them at
baby.com. And also at baby.com, you'll see
a link to my Internet radio station.
And if you go to my website, you'll see a triangular button
(59:28):
that's turning around. Click that little button and
that will launch the radio station.
Press play and listen to beautiful music and encouraging
words 24 hours a day. The station is online.
You'll hear my music, you'll hear great worship music.
You'll hear great teaching. I play in the evening.
I play a block from like 6:30 to9:30.
Bible study programs. Charles Stanley, Tony Evans,
(59:51):
James Ford, Max Lucado, Kay Arthur, Priscilla Shire, all
these wonderful voices to encourage you and then a lot of
music and encouraging words 24 hours a day.
So check it out at baby.com and my links for social media are
there on the website. But it's it's, it's at Babbie
Mason. Whether that's Facebook or
(01:00:12):
Instagram or whatever, it's at Babbie Mason.
OK, Yeah, yeah, check, check baby out, go to her website and
and just follow all the. I mean, it's such a great
resource to have that on the. On the radio.
Station. That's awesome.
Wow, you're a very special lady,my friend.
Thank you so much for for comingon with me.
Thank you for having me, I enjoyed it.
(01:00:34):
Happiness Sold Separately is created and hosted by Jason
Hensley and is produced by Makash Films.
Narration by Lauren Gobis If youor someone you know is in crisis
and needs immediate help, call the National Mental Health
Hotline at 866-903-3787. We would be honored if you would
(01:00:58):
rate, share and subscribe. Bye.
That's a good one.
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