How to Find Your Chill in within Church and Culture, Celebrating 1000 Subscribers, and From Witchcraft to Christianity

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
bombcom.
All right, let me hit the music.
That's not the official music,but I liked it though.
Welcome everyone, hello, hello.

(00:37):
Welcome to the Happy and HolyPodcast.
We are your beloved hosts.
She is Jamie.

Speaker 2 (00:42):
And this is my best friend Wenny.

Speaker 1 (00:47):
Hello, hello everyone , welcome.
We are the helpers of your joyhere to bring you another
episode of the Happy and HolyPodcast.
What are we?
Well, we're kind of like a, youknow, social commentary,
journalistic tongue in cheekwitty.
What else do we do here?

Speaker 2 (01:08):
Like basically a guidebook to having joy in your
life in a way that makes sense,so that you are not just like oh
yeah, I'm happy, but that youcan actually be like I know why
I'm happy and I also know whyI'm not going to let other
people bring me down.

Speaker 1 (01:28):
We love that.
Yeah, we dissect the latesttrends with a little touch of
divine wisdom.
Dashy humor, some biblicalinsight, some truth slaying,
some of that stuff.
You know, I like that.
I like that what you said,though I have a reason to be
happy, and also here's a reasonfor you to not not make me happy

(01:50):
.
Stay away from me if you don'twant me to be happy and some of
these things that we talk aboutfrom the news.

Speaker 2 (01:57):
Their aim is to make people worried and unhappy, and
we're going to tell you why theyshould yeah, and the news is
kind of geared for like an usversus them mentality right.

Speaker 1 (02:12):
A lot of divisiveness in the news oh, yeah, yeah like
I want you to be the bad guy.
And here are the good guys.

Speaker 2 (02:20):
Pick a side, any side see the fact that we fell for
them painting the sides in thefirst place.
That was our first mistake.
We have let them make two sidesbecause that's how they feel in
their feelings yes, they takenotes.

Speaker 1 (02:38):
We are a social experiment for these people.
Um, we are a case study forthese people and they take notes
and they're like this is whatworks.
Oh, fear, fear is a greatmotivator.
Oh, hatred, hatreds are greatmotivator.
You know?

(02:59):
Oh, good news.
Let's forget about that.
I remember when the news usedto have to make a whole like
segment for just good news.

Speaker 2 (03:08):
Oh yeah.

Speaker 1 (03:11):
I don't know.
I highly, I highly doubt it.
I think there's like now,there's like podcasts that focus
on good news, there's websitesthat focus on good news.
How bad has it gotten in thisworld where they're like let's
dedicate a whole segment justfor good news?
Like, why can't we justsprinkle it into the show?
No, no, this is the allocatedsegment for good news.

(03:34):
Only during these 10 minutescan you share some good news.

Speaker 2 (03:39):
Wow, they really separated it.
I hate that.

Speaker 1 (03:49):
They segregated the good news from the bad.
They did that's terrible.
Well, you don't have to worryabout that here, because this is
good news.
All the time, at least, I wouldlike to think so there's always
a good news part of the story.
When people give you news andthey want to spin it bad,
there's always a way to findhope right and agree, like, even

(04:12):
if we have to bring you badnews, you know, like, for
example, if somebody's releasingan album, a certain someone, if
we have to bring you the badnews about that, we will paint
up, paint it up, dress it upwith some nice colors, maybe put
on a necklace, some makeup.

Speaker 2 (04:32):
I love that.
That took me a solid sevenseconds to remember who that was
God.
I live in a lovely bubble overhere.

Speaker 1 (04:39):
She who will not be named.

Speaker 2 (04:41):
I was like who?

Speaker 1 (04:41):
And then I was like oh, who would be releasing an
album at this time?

Speaker 2 (04:48):
At this, at a time like this.

Speaker 1 (04:53):
Well, before we carry on and not walk you through the
show, if you're new here, hello, welcome.
Welcome to the Happy and Holypodcast.
As we introduce ourselves, weare your host.
We are not limited to, but weare your host here, and I'm sure

(05:15):
you're wondering if you clickedand it wasn't our pretty faces
that brought you here.
If you're wondering where wegot the Happy and Holy name from
, well, allow us to enlightenyou.
Happy and holy is a phrase thatwas famously coined by the Duke
of Bulgaria himself, mrGeorgian Banoff, who is one half

(05:37):
of the co-founders of GlobalCelebration.
Yes, he had co-founded thisministry with his wife, winnie
Coco Banoff.
And Georgian Banoff has a lotof great sayings, he has a lot
of funny taglines, he has a lotof punchlines, but I will say
this one struck a chord.
And here's the thing the worldwants you happy but not holy,

(06:11):
and religion wants you holy butnot happy.

Speaker 2 (06:19):
But Jesus came to make you both, to make you both.

Speaker 1 (06:27):
To make you both.
To make you both Like peanutbutter and jelly.
It just goes together.
Happy and holy, yeah.
So why happy and holy?
Why do we care?
Well, many reasons too.
But, as we said, here we arethe minstrels of bliss, here to

(06:48):
be helpers of your joy.
Why would we mention you knowthis famously coined phrase?
Well, we're here to remind youthat we are not brand
ambassadors, subcontractors orrepresentatives of this ministry
.
This is our disclaimer.
We are not affiliates and we donot get royalties.
We are just the byproduct oftheir joy.

Speaker 2 (07:10):
We are lucky beneficiaries of their wisdom,
their ministry and, of course,their books.

Speaker 1 (07:19):
And, of course, their books.
And, yeah, the byproduct is forus to not lord over your faith
but to be helpers of your joy.
And so here we are, the happyand holy podcast, and especially
in this year, 2024, the year ofour lord, he has charged us

(07:41):
with a mandate.
Those, those are big likeChristianese words, right, big
like Pentecostal words.
Charged with a mandate, we havereceived the mantle, and the
Lord had encouraged us to giveyou guys something to be happy
about in the year.

(08:02):
In this year, the year of manythings happening and, as we were
saying, a lot of things vyingfor your attention, and as we
were just talking about JasonSilva, jason Silva was talking
about the enemy of your bliss,and the enemy of your bliss
being fear and anxiety, and alot of people would love to see
you unhappy.

(08:22):
A lot of people would love tosee you unhappy.

Speaker 2 (08:26):
Because if the joy of the Lord is your strength, what
are you when you're unhappy,weak and they?

Speaker 1 (08:38):
want you weak, because weak people are easy to
control.
You know what's crazy.
So the pastor, today I was atchurch, which is a good place to
be you know, on a Sunday.
On a Sunday, just you know.
So the pastor was talking aboutPaul and Silas in jail and how,
like, after they had beenbeaten and flogged and their

(08:58):
clothes ripped off and they weremocked and spat on all the
things and then thrown in jail.
So it wasn't enough for them togo through that.
But then things and then thrownin jail, so it wasn't, it
wasn't enough for them to gothrough that.
But then they also were thrownin jail and they said in the
word, in acts, that the timethat they spent in jail they

(09:19):
were praising the lord andsinging ready for action yeah,
paul and silas doing a thingacts of scene right.
So they're singing praises and alot of joy in that moment, not
a joyful experience, but a lotof joy in that moment.
And, um, I was like man, Iwonder what type of song they

(09:43):
would have been singing in jail.
You know, it definitelywouldn't have been maybe
anything from like Maverick City.
But I was just thinking that,like you know, like what song
would they have been singing?
It wouldn't have been likethese little cutesy, like little
songs that they've been comingout with lately.
Like you are more than able,they're not singing that.

(10:04):
You know what I mean.
I believe you just made melisten to one line of that song
triggered I'm so furious rightnow because, like they wouldn't
be singing about themselves, youknow, they would be exalting
the lord and I'm like man.
Those are the type of songsthat just like break strongholds
and those are the type of songsthat set people free.
And then we just try to be socute, like in our in our worship

(10:28):
nowadays, and we're singinglike these dopey songs like why
are we wasting like the 45minutes that we have allotted to
just worship?
And we sing these songs aboutourselves, over ourselves, and
we've gotten real narcissisticin our worship experience and
I'm like paul and silas wouldnot be singing Honestly, they
probably would be singing likeWaymaker, they would probably be
singing like Shout to the Lord.

Speaker 2 (10:49):
Yeah, those are total prison songs.
Maybe like I wish you were richenough to go to a church and
say I'll give you a milliondollars if you never play a
Maverick City song again.

Speaker 1 (11:01):
Oh my God, I would be like I would give a million
dollars to your admissionsdepartment if you would never
sing City song again.
Oh my God, I would give amillion dollars to your
admissions department if youwould never sing the song again.
And they'd be like, yes, whatother songs?
I mean?
Yeah, there's so many songs,dude.
I was leading worship overPassover weekend and you know
what song I pulled out of myrepertoire?

(11:23):
What Michael W Smith's you AreHoly.

Speaker 2 (11:28):
It's like super.

Speaker 1 (11:30):
It's like kind of hokey, you know, because it's
like you are holy.
You are holy, you are mighty,and then the crowd goes you are
mighty and it's so cheesy, butit's really.

Speaker 2 (11:40):
So 90s.

Speaker 1 (11:42):
Okay, so 90s.

Speaker 2 (11:43):
That wasn't hokey back then, it was just yeah it
wasn't.

Speaker 1 (11:48):
But then, like you kind of feel goofy singing the
verses until you got to thechorus and it was like.
The chorus was like and I willsing to and worship the king,
who is worthy, and I will bowdown before him, um, and I will
bow down before him.
But then it would end and belike you are my prince of peace

(12:11):
and I will live my life for you.
But then the alternate choruswas like I feel the Lord.
But the alternate chorus wasyou are the.
I'm going to have to read itbecause I don't want to sing it.
Sing it Did I read it?
So you're a fool.

Speaker 2 (12:30):
Help me sound good, okay.

Speaker 1 (12:32):
Screaming.
I don't want YouTube to be likehey, this isn't your song,
Don't sing it.

Speaker 2 (12:38):
Yeah, they would, they'd do that.

Speaker 1 (12:40):
They would do that.
They would be like that melody.
They would do that.
They would be like that melody.

Speaker 2 (12:44):
That's ours.

Speaker 1 (12:46):
Doesn't belong to you .
Okay, so the verse, the chorus.
I'm sorry it was like, so I willsing to and worship the king
who is worthy, and I will loveand adore him and I will bow
down before him.
So that's the first chorus.
Then the second chorus goes youare Lord of Lords, you're King

(13:06):
of Kings, you are mighty God,lord of everything.
You're Emmanuel.
You're the great I am.
You're the Prince of Peace, whois the Lamb.
You're my living God.
You're my saving grace.
You will reign forever.
You are ancient of days.
You're the Alpha, the Omega,the beginning and the end.
You're my savior, messiah,redeemer and friend.
And then you would think that'sthe end.
No, then he refrains and singsthat same part again and says

(13:30):
you are my prince of peace and Iwill live my life for you uh,
michael is a man who knows theword.
He knows his word michael wsmith knows his word, you know.
Know, who's also solid,theologically wise in his
songwriting is Chris Tomlin.
Chris Tomlin has beenconsistently solid throughout

(13:55):
the ages.

Speaker 2 (13:57):
Yeah, he's absolutely never gets off.
He's just solid in the word andthen he puts the word in the
song.
You know who does?
It's I.
I really I feel bad saying thisbecause I don't.
I don't have any hate for thisperson.
I actually think she's a greatsongwriter, but theologically I

(14:22):
think she's great I think I knowyou're gonna say it's Brooke.
You know it's Brooke.
I know I love her writing.
I think she's one of thegreatest um songwriters that we
have around right now, whichunfortunately isn't saying much
because we really just don'thave a lot of great writers in
the Christian world, not rightnow, right now, and that's not

(14:43):
her fault, that's not.
That's not her fault.
So, but that being said, um, Ithink her writing is really
theologically sound.
I think she's just she justdoes a really good job of doing
like solid Christian pop um,like worship poppy Christian,
just that current, whatever thetrend is now, like she's not
doing anything, like she's notchanging the game, but she's

(15:04):
doing a good job of keeping ittheologically sound and keeping
it catchy.
She's doing great when sheleads worship.
Do I wish Kim Walker Smith weresinging instead?
Yes, but the song.

Speaker 1 (15:18):
Raise your hand, if you agree.

Speaker 2 (15:19):
She wrote the song, so I give her credit.
Girl I love, bless God.

Speaker 1 (15:23):
That song is so good that song is is absolutely fire.
So brooke frazier also isconsistently.
I mean, like what was it?
Desert song before, desert songwas um, dude, there was.
There was this song.
I don't know why this song wasslept on because it's so fire,
but brooke frazier wrote thissong called soon and very soon

(15:47):
and I was like, oh, this song isso sweet and I used to like
lead it for like, like altarcalls ish moments, but it was
like, oh, you have to, you haveto find it.
It's like it's a, it's short,it's very sweet, very direct,
and it's like the chorus is likeand I will be with the one I
love, with unville face, I willsee him and then my soul will be

(16:09):
satisfied soon and very soon.
And it's so sweet, it's such asweet song and um brooke is,
yeah, she's a great writer.
I'll give her that like.
I want to say, like ourgeneration's, like great writer.
Even chris tomlin, ourgeneration michael w smith was a
couple generations before, butthen he's been consistent
throughout.
You know who's also Matt Redman.

Speaker 2 (16:33):
Matt Redman's solid.
I was about to bring him upactually.

Speaker 1 (16:35):
Great theology in his , in his music.

Speaker 2 (16:38):
Yeah, absolutely solid.
So I would, I would say MattRedman and Chris Tomlin are Gen
X right?
Really, I would say Matt Redmanand Chris Tomlin are Gen X
right?

Speaker 1 (16:46):
Really, I would say so because I think by the time
they already hit the scene waswhen we were in youth group or
youth group age.

Speaker 2 (16:55):
Yeah, my mom was jamming to him for a while, so
he's 50.
So, yeah, he's born in 74, MattRedman.

Speaker 1 (17:04):
But, everyone hasn't.
Just because they're that age,though, doesn't mean they've
always been in the scene, but Iknow that Michael W Smith has
been in the scene for like along time.
That's how I know, like he'sbeen generations before.
Who was with Michael W Smith?
Darlene from Hillsong?

Speaker 2 (17:22):
Yes, yeah, Darlene she she basically came up in the
nineties.
Was she really doing much?

Speaker 1 (17:28):
Maybe in the late eighties maybe late eighties,
didn't we watch like a musicvideo where she was wearing like
a blazer?

Speaker 2 (17:34):
Yes, bring back it, just like how we used to wear
office wear to the club.
Bring that back to church,because we used to wear office
wear to the club.
Bring that back to church,because we used to wear office
wear to the club and we thoughtwe looked great.
Right, I wasn't at the club.
I was too young to go to theclub at that time and I don't
think I've only been to a clubmaybe once or twice.

(17:56):
But we need to bring that backso that we can see it at the
church too screaming the thetwill pleated pants.

Speaker 1 (18:04):
Bring those back for women.
Those are cool yeah, I think.

Speaker 2 (18:10):
Yeah, darlene looks like she's gen x as well, I
think she's been around for aminute, dude.

Speaker 1 (18:16):
I think she has been yeah, she has been.

Speaker 2 (18:19):
Brooke is 40, so I think that I think she might be.
What year does millennial start?
She's born 83 well, I think theoldest millennial is like 47,
46, 47 that cannot be true yeah,it is like there's older
millennials 81 to 96 is the isthe age range of um the the

(18:40):
birth year, so she's amillennial, yeah yeah, so brooke
fraser.

Speaker 1 (18:44):
There was also some old jackie velasquez um.
There was somebody else whocame out around that time, dude,
remember stacy arrico I wasjust about to bring up stacy
arrico, you remember literallymy brain, just like the second
you said, jackie, I was like youknow who.
She reminds me of stacy aricathere is somebody else rebecca,
saint james oh, she was my firstconcert you went to see rebecca

(19:09):
, saint james and then I met herafterwards.

Speaker 2 (19:15):
I I will be so mad if I, if somebody threw out the
autograph I have from her.
I have like an autograph photoof her and I have like a picture
of her with me in this likeoversized.
I felt really ugly in the likethis oversized like camp t-shirt
and I was like oh my god, she'sgonna think I'm gross, real,

(19:36):
and she put that verse fromfirst timothy.
Like the do not like, like whatit was about.

Speaker 1 (19:43):
Don't let people like despise you because you're a
youth that's the one I swear.
I think she did that foreverybody who was like a child
probably I don't care, it wassweet I don't care, it was my
moment, it was my picture.

Speaker 2 (19:57):
I wonder what verse.
I don't think my mom got anautograph, but I wonder what
autograph my mom would havegotten from her.
Like what scripture um psalmyeah, probably something really
um, just cliche in general.
But yeah, she gave me thatverse, sign the picture and good

(20:19):
for her and I think also justwant to give her props because
she really, when she said wait,when she's like I'm a wait, she
did wait.
She waited.
Her and her husband Bando bothwaited for marriage and I think
he's isn't he in that band?
I need to look this up.
I think he was in the band.
I might be wrong.
That did pumped up kicks andI'm forgetting the name of oh,

(20:44):
tell me, yeah, when you tell me,when you okay.
So yes, rebecca St James, shemarried Jacob Fink and Jacob
Fink is the member of the pop,indie pop band Foster the People
.
That's a the band that did thesong Pumped Up Kicks, which is
about shooting um my gosh.
Yeah, so they.
They both waited for marriage.

(21:05):
They got married in 2011.

Speaker 1 (21:10):
They waited for each other wow, isn't um unsung hero
about her really I did not knowthis maybe it's not about her,
maybe she wrote a song for it.
I just remember seeing her namecome up recently for under the
unsung hero, which I have noidea what that's about isn't
that candace cameron?
Viret's production studio didthat possibly isn't she wearing

(21:33):
like a red-headed wig for that?
I saw candace with like a curlyred-headed wig and I was like
what's, what's going on here?

Speaker 2 (21:40):
um okay, so rebecca saint james plays a flight
attendant in it.
First of all, okay, let's see.
It celebrates the Smallbonefamily's inspiring journey and
their enduring legacy asinfluential figures in the world
of Christian music.

Speaker 1 (22:00):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (22:02):
But who is it based on?

Speaker 1 (22:04):
I know the Duke for King and Country are in it.
Maybe it's their story.
This is all speculation, guys.
I'm sorry.
We're kind of figuring this outas we.

Speaker 2 (22:16):
We're literally like just hit record.
We have things to discuss, Okay.

Speaker 1 (22:22):
We actually do, but we are not on track whatsoever,
but go on, we do.
Yeah, no, in our do, but we arelike not on track whatsoever,
but go on.

Speaker 2 (22:26):
We do yeah, no, in our defense, like we're prepared
.
We just weren't prepared forour.
This is like our phone calls.
We told you from the jump weused to have long phone calls.
We still have long phone calls,but now we're letting you in on
the phone call and when youhave a phone call, do you call
your friend and you're like, ohmy God, I have to tell you a
thing.
Yeah, you absolutely do.
But then you also go off on atangent and you're like, oh my
God, like this nail polish orwhatever.

(22:47):
And this is just that nailpolish that just came up to,
came to mind randomly.

Speaker 1 (22:51):
So we digress a lot.

Speaker 2 (22:55):
Realistic Okay Unsung Hero.
It is written and co-directedby Richard Ramsey and Joel
Smallbone.
Okay For King.
It is written and co-directedby Richard Ramsey and Joel
Smallbone.
Okay For King and Country.
So, released on April 26th.
Film follows Rebecca, so it isRebecca based on Rebecca as well
.
Rebecca, joel and LukeSmallbone for King and Country

(23:18):
and their life journey to becomeChristian recording artists.

Speaker 1 (23:23):
Wow, so they, oh, I guess they grew up knowing each
other.

Speaker 2 (23:26):
They must have, or is it Rebecca St James, or is it a
different Rebecca?
It has to be a differentRebecca, right?
Oh gosh, I'm so confused.

Speaker 1 (23:33):
But Rebecca St James is Australian.

Speaker 2 (23:35):
Yes, wait, so this makes sense.
In 91, a small bone familymoved from Australia to
Nashville.

Speaker 1 (23:48):
So maybe that's her stage name, um david, and is she
related to them?
Is this, what is this whatyou're trying to tell me, right?

Speaker 2 (23:51):
now, wow.
Okay, central to the narrativeare three of the small bone
siblings joel, luke and rebeccast james.
She's their sister and wedidn't know, hold on pause.

Speaker 1 (24:03):
I also would like to acknowledge that for King and
Country has written someterrible music and for them to
be of the same bloodline.
I'm confused, I feel bad, Ifeel so sorry guys, please keep
being successful I think theygot away with being attractive
and playing drums in a veryunique way, but some of the

(24:24):
music that they have written howpeople get away with everything
I know some of you, some of youccm christian radio people are
going to be upset but for kingand country has not written.
A lot of you know what theirbest albums were were the
christmas albums really yeahthey.
They put out some great, uh,christmas albums, but like

(24:45):
compilations, like they havere-composed, like some you know
basic, like drummer boy, likethey did great with drummer boy
and oh yeah, that's right.
They did do a really good coverof that yeah, their best stuff
was their christmas stuff, whichis not saying a lot, but they
were very unique and creativeand but freaking country, I

(25:09):
think wrote a lot of like yeah,some of their music was very
okay.
Well, they moved to nashville,made sense, like, hey, you guys
are real attractive, you have agreat smile, you're unique, you
got curly hair.
You don't like like, let's giveyou guys like abc one, two,
three, four chord progressionsongs and then, like the girls
are gonna love you, the moms aregonna love you, hey.

(25:30):
But I want to say Rebecca,rebecca, st James, put them on
the map, now that I knowactually catchy.

Speaker 2 (25:37):
After I was like get me an album, right man, that's
crazy.
So I wonder who the unsung herois in all that um.
I still won't see the movie,but um I kind of want to see it
just for candace for candace andrebecca san james, because you

(26:00):
have the autograph I do, and I'mgonna find that autograph next
time I dig around my childhoodbedroom.
I'm not just going to find theunofficial guide to baby spice.
I'm not just going to find aworn cop Well, many worn copies
of many different AgathaChristie novels.
I'm not just going to find theofficial guide to degrassi the

(26:24):
next generation you had that, ohyeah, um.

Speaker 1 (26:27):
So paul and silas um, so I was thinking about the
songs that paul and silas wouldbe singing in jail and I'm just
saying it's not going to be thiscute, like artsy, fartsy songs
that they have coming out now,where I really think that half
of the songs that are like topthe charts that people think
that they love like to worshipwith.

(26:49):
I think people just like tohear themselves sing, like that
song that has popped off, thatum was an elevation that
released that praise song.
Like praise, um, that one.
I think people just like tohear themselves sing the run, oh
, yeah, it's not a hard run andit sounds good it's not a hard

(27:11):
run.
It sounds complicated, but also,as an ensemble, amazing.
You know, get some nice voicestogether.
It's incredible.
Um, however, not the song thatI would be singing in jail now.
Remember what came out aroundthat time.
Um, israel, hooten and lord,you are good oh, I forgot about

(27:35):
israel I wonder how he's doingwith his wife, cheetah girl yeah
, that's a whole mess.
For another subject uh, anothersubject in another day I will
say that there was protestsoutside of one of his uh
performance venues and they hadon their like pitchforks and

(27:58):
poster boards.
Um, they had a picture of hisdaughter's like instagram
account where she was likeposting all risque and they're
just like it's insane and I'mlike do you understand that you
people who are protesting in thename of whatever religion
you're following Cause it cannotbe Christianity the people who
are protesting do you understandthe time it took you to go on

(28:21):
the internet, took you to go onthe internet, go on Instagram,
save a photo, send it to yourcomputer, print it out, put it
on the poster board, and thiswhole time you're staring at
this picture and you're like youwitch, you Jezebel, and you're
like staring at this picture ofthis woman that you printed out.

Speaker 2 (28:40):
And then you printed it out for other people to see
it, on a sign.
You were like, don't make usstumble, look at it.

Speaker 1 (28:49):
Right, so we're going to duplicate this photo, but
don't make us stumble.

Speaker 2 (28:54):
Oh, my God.

Speaker 1 (28:59):
So that's how it's going in the Hooten world, but I
will say that there are somesongs.
Oh, nicole C Mullen Rememberwhen she came out with Call on
Jesus.
When I call on Jesus, allthings are possible.

Speaker 2 (29:15):
Oh yeah.
Why are we singing this inchurch anymore?
I get, I okay, I understand weneed to like sing new songs,
like it's so important to sing anew song unto the Lord because
that's so biblical.
But the problem is, like allthese new, like the new songs
are flopping and none of thesewriters are giving us anything
to work with.

Speaker 1 (29:36):
I don't think Jesus image is singing anything beyond
2015 and that's why I canlisten to their worship sets.
I love, uh, I get in there.
And what were they just singingthe other day, actually maybe
this this past weekend?
They were singing, actually,israel and they were singing

(29:57):
your presence is heaven and Iwas like, ah that song, your
presence is heaven to me.
I used, oh that song, yourpresence is heaven to me.
I used to love that song.
Hello, you see, michael, do youthink that any of those songs
are going to get past him?

Speaker 2 (30:15):
No, he remembers.
He'll have like core memoryunlocked and then he'll like
text, his worship leader.
He'll be like play this, I justhad a memory, texas worship
leader.

Speaker 1 (30:26):
I'd be like play this .
I just had a memory.
You know they should have beenlike tagging for decades, since
he has said it is.
One time I was in Dallas and hewas at Upper Room.
Upper Room, very wisely had notlike they, very wisely, have
not.

Speaker 2 (30:41):
They did not advertise that Koulianos is
coming oh, that would have madethe already miserable to get
into service the most miserable.
It would have been so bad rightit would have been that time
that you two tried to film amusic video on the roof of a
building in downtown la?

Speaker 1 (30:58):
it would have been that right, it would have been a
mess.
The amount of you know, 18 to25 year old men with mullets and
mustaches.
They would have been feral forKuliano.
So there's no way we would havehad space if they had
advertised.

Speaker 2 (31:19):
And the girlies are feral for him too.

Speaker 1 (31:22):
The girlies?
Yeah, they, they, they tendtend to be, they tend to be, and
then they see jess and thenthey back off.
But, um, guys, love kuleanos,which you know what?
He's?
A man's man right he is.
He's a man's man I love, I lovekuleanos, um, but uh, so he was
like coming, he came with likea word and again, this is all

(31:45):
speculation.
I cannot say and cannot confirmnor deny that this is actually
what happened, or whatever.
But he was like coming and hewas speaking and he was like I
was told to come bring a wordand I felt like the word was for
the worship team and we werejust all in a room and I was
okay with that.
We were just all in a room andI was okay with that.
But in that, in that verygentle, when Koulianos rebukes

(32:09):
you, it's kind of like a scalpelwhere, like he cuts you and you
don't know that you're bleeding, and then you're like oh, oh,
look at that.
And so he came and he's likebringing this word to them and
then he says the phrase, phrase,sing the songs that still have
oil.
And I was like, oh, I'm nevergonna forget, I'm never gonna

(32:31):
forget that, I'm never gonnaforget that.
And, um, I think that's theplace that they live.
I think that's just what jesusimage does, like they just hey,
this song's oldie, but goodie,we're gonna sing.
You know, give me all my lamp,keep me burning, burning,
burning.
They're gonna, they're gonnasing.
Turn your eyes on jesus,they're singing.

(32:51):
I just the other, the other set.
They were singing uh, keithgreen lord, you're beautiful and
I'm like paul and silas wouldhave been singing that in jail
oh yeah, that song slaps, youknow what I mean.
So, anyway, I just kind of like,uh, and you know this is like a
extra pro tip, and then we canmove on another like pro tip for
worship leaders when you'relike trying to compile a set and

(33:14):
you remember that we're notlike compiling sets to please
people, right, because we'rewe're serving the lord and we
want to honor the lord and we'rebringing him an offering.
We're not here to serve people.
And also, remember you havefull permission as a worship
leader to tell the pastor thatyou are under and you can say

(33:34):
this with grace.
Okay, colossians 4, 6 says tolet your words be seasoned with
grace.
You can say this with grace,but tell your pastor you are not
a karaoke machine you can saythis with grace.
But tell your pastor you are nota karaoke machine.
Okay, because sometimes thereare some songs that, like I will
draw a boundary.
I try to meet, I try to honorthe pastor's desire as much as I

(33:57):
can, because I am here to servethe body.
I'm here to serve the body, notplease them.
I'm here to serve them and so Iwill be like, oh okay, like,
okay, you like songs like thisand I'll do that.
But sometimes if there's like asong that I'm like I won't lead
that song.
I'm sorry, I love you so muchbut I will not lead that song.

(34:18):
And it's not because I can't,but I won't Because I.
This is me, this is myconviction.
I do not sing songs that I amnot convicted enough to believe.
And so there are songs that I'mlike I'm kind of wrestling with
that right now, theologically.
I won't lead it just becauseit's in, because I need to be

(34:38):
convincing to the Lord, I'mbringing a new song to Him, I'm
bringing a joyful offering toHim, I'm singing praises to him.
Okay, so that's one, and thentwo.
So one yeah, I don't sing songsthat I'm not convicted enough
to believe but also the second,or maybe third or fourth, I

(34:59):
don't know, maybe one episode, Iwill compile a concise list.
Another criteria I guess youcould say episode I will compile
a concise list.
Another criteria I guess youcould say that I go by when I'm
compiling a set list is inspectand encounter.
And if Jesus were to walk intothe room, which he very much
does, right, he enters in, herides in on the praises of his

(35:20):
people.
And if we are compiling setlists with the expectation of
the king to walk into the room,what songs do you want to be
caught leading when he's walkingin what song would I want to be
singing?
I certainly wouldn't want to besinging about myself, right?

Speaker 2 (35:37):
I wouldn't want to be calling him provider.
You are enough.
That'd be really embarrassing.

Speaker 1 (35:44):
You're just enough Wallet.

Speaker 2 (35:47):
You are enough.
That'd be really embarrassingWallet.

Speaker 1 (35:50):
You are enough Paycheck you are enough,
literally, you know, and so like, if he's standing in a room
like imagine, like just expectGod to come, and if Jesus were
to walk in and that's very muchhas happened in some worship

(36:11):
sets that I've been a part of,worship sets that I've led,
because, like, I have this likewalking expectation that the
King is is going to arrive, likehe's going to walk in, that the
King is coming.
Yeah, one time I was leading aworship set and I felt like it
was kind of dead, like I wasjust like kind of dull, and the
Lord had whispered to me likehow, how else would you behave

(36:31):
if a king walked into the room?
And I was like oh, wow and um,john Thurlow, is that John
Thurlow song?
Um, when you walk into, whenyou Walk Into the Room?
No, is it David Brimmer?

Speaker 2 (36:45):
Which one?

Speaker 1 (36:46):
When you Walk Into.

Speaker 2 (36:47):
The Room.

Speaker 1 (36:52):
I want to say it's David.

Speaker 2 (36:54):
Is it David?
But I might just be biased,because I like David.

Speaker 1 (36:59):
Really, I thought you were going to say I was going
to be biased, because I loveJohn.
I love when John leads it.
One of the most memorablerecordings of that song is John.
Like I hear John's voice.

Speaker 2 (37:13):
I do.
I mean, obviously I love John.
John is the only person Ilisten to, to be honest, like
95% of the time.
If you're in my car, it's John.

Speaker 1 (37:25):
It's John.
But I do love David but I justthink, I don't know why it
reminds me of David's writing.
Yes, yeah, I think it is DavidRight now I'm just seeing that
it's the Torralts and I don'tthink that's right, the Torralts
right, oh, it is the.
Torralts, they wrote it, though, or did they put?

Speaker 2 (37:48):
it on a map?
Um, let's find out.
Yeah, they wrote it.

Speaker 1 (37:50):
Oh, wow, they wrote it I thought it came from ihop
it's well, it's the tour waltz.

Speaker 2 (38:00):
What can I tell you?
As far far as I know, they'reunder Jesus culture.

Speaker 1 (38:05):
Yeah no, the Torvalds are solid.
We love them yeah solid.

Speaker 2 (38:09):
We're just shocked.

Speaker 1 (38:11):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (38:12):
Because it's giving David.
I stand corrected, it wasgiving David for me.

Speaker 1 (38:16):
Yeah, I feel like David Brimmer, but yeah.
I stand corrected.
My bad, but I want to giveBrian and Kate Torwalt their
flowers because that songabsolutely slaps.
I was leading and that song wasnext on the set list and the
Lord had asked me that, like howelse are you to behave when the

(38:39):
king walks into the room?
And I was like oh, oh, oh, mygosh.
And so I like turned up thevolume, I was picking up the
chords, like, and I didn't evenhave to say the phrase, but the
room responded to the revelationand then, like the, the room
popped off.
And so I'm just saying thatsometimes I'm just so deflated
by, like, the choice of songssometimes that I'm like really

(39:01):
like a jesus where to walk in.
Is this really what we want tobe singing about?
I want to sing about, is thisreally what we want to be
singing about?
I want to sing about our trauma.
Do I really want to be singingabout my trauma?

Speaker 2 (39:09):
right now the last thing, I want is to be
worshiping my trauma.
You know who's like, exaltingit as a lofty thing above god's
throne oh, oh, may it never belook some, some songs be doing
that, some churches be doingthat, some people I know be
doing that.

Speaker 1 (39:25):
They're like my trauma, so right right, it was
in the blood of jesus the onlypeople who sing about their exes
more than taylor swift is thechurch.

Speaker 2 (39:34):
Oh well we, don't we?
That was the greatest thing Ithink you've ever said oh, I'm
screaming you've said somebrilliant things.
I should start like a folder ofthings you've said that just
have hit me like a truck.

Speaker 1 (39:50):
Oh, my god, say it again um, yeah, the only people
who sing about their exes morethan taylor swift is the church.
We, we sing about fear, anxiety.
Why do we have to include it inour songs?
Sing about depression, singabout our brokenness, our

(40:12):
poverty.
We sing about that.
And, yeah, I just want to exalthim with high praise.
And a lot of people are goingto be like, well, you know, you
gotta, when you're in that lowplace, like not everybody, you
know not everyone could be inperpetual state of joy 24, seven
.
You probably can't, but that isavailable to you.

(40:35):
However, as I was tellingsomebody on Twitter I should
later I should talk about likemy, my mean tweets.
I was going back and forth witha lot of people who were mad
because I was just like okay, soit happened, get over it.
And somebody was like, well, Ihope you're not in leadership.
And I was like, actually, butsomebody was like, yeah, you

(40:57):
have to acknowledge people andtheir pain, and like pain is
real and deciding a thing.
Anyway, I was like, yeah,pain's really real, but so so is
the Lord, and I refuse to stayin a place where I've made my
bed in my trauma.
It's not gonna happen.
And in response to the peoplewho are under me in leadership,

(41:21):
because he was like you gotta beable to meet, meet people in
their their sadness and theirdepression and their pain.
I said amen to all of that.
Right, you mourn with those whomourn, weep with those who weep
.
Um, but the sorrow only lastsfor a night and there's not
enough leaders who take peopleto the sun.

(41:43):
There's not a lot of enoughleaders who say, oh, but joy
comes in the morning, or leaderswho will stay throughout the
night season till you see thatsun, till you see that joy.
People don't do that Like aheart that is deprived, a heart
that's disappointed, a heartthat is despaired Over and over.
We see what it does.
David said that he was sodepressed that his bones were

(42:06):
brittle, right, and so weunderstand what depression, the
effects of depression, and weexalt the effects of depression
Like, oh, those are very real.
So is joy, so is Jesus, so istruth, and at the end of my
tweet I was like, the only thingthat will set people free is
the truth, and truth is a person, and so we just don't give

(42:30):
Jesus enough credit about theLord stepping into someone's
pain and, yeah, now allowingpeople to just stay in their
trauma.

Speaker 2 (42:39):
Yeah, I think obviously, acknowledging pain is
real as a necessary part ofhealing, but the problem is that
most pastoral leadership enablepeople to stay in a place that
actually, majority of the time,the enemy did something to them

(43:05):
a loss, a trauma whatever andthey allow the enemy to win in
that person's life by enablingthem to continue in a suffering
state and not telling them hey,the good news of being in Christ
is there is healing and thereis joy and there is truth that

(43:34):
you have like already.
You have the mind of Christ, youdon't need people to be
constantly speaking over you,you don't need to go through and
and inner healing ministriescan be very helpful, as led by
the Lord.
I've been helped by them before.
But I think the problem ispeople feel like they need that
all the time.
They need to be healing all thetime and really codependent on

(44:01):
external sources and not on theHoly Spirit, and the Word says
that the Holy Spirit, theanointing in us, will teach us
all things.
We will not need anyone toinstruct us, and the pastors in
that are enabling immaturity andthey're enabling someone to
wallow in their sorrow.

Speaker 1 (44:21):
Right, right, yeah.
And I think that immature,immature inner healing
ministries not all of them areimmature, but I believe that
immature ones create enablementfor people's pain.
Um, enablement for people'spain, because if they can enable

(44:46):
someone in their trauma,they'll never lose a client.

Speaker 2 (44:53):
It's just like the medical industry.
It's like keep treating thesymptoms, but you can't give
them a cure.

Speaker 1 (45:03):
Hey, inner healing ministry is not supposed to be.
Take two and call me in themorning, but they expect the
phone call.
They expect, oh, you're goingto, I'm going to hear from you
soon.
What?
Why did I just spend a sessionwith you then?
Yeah, you know, walk me to walkme towards, towards my healer.
Like, walk me, walk me towardsthe healing, walk me towards my
breakthrough.
But they're just like, yeah,you, I took care of some of it,

(45:25):
but, um, we're gonnacompartmentalize your pain,
we're gonna compartmentalizeyour demons, we'll take care of
this and then, when you pay forthe next 90 minutes, then we'll
take care of the rest.
Well, I got you what?
And um, yeah, the good news foryou is that if you were under
some of those inner healingministries, like, the good news

(45:47):
is that the Lord himself, heheals the brokenhearted and he
binds up their wounds.
Okay, psalm 147.
He says he binds up theirwounds.
Psalm 34 says the Lord is closeto the brokenhearted and he
saves those who are crushed inspirit.

(46:10):
He saves those.
And so I just want to encourageyou, those who may have been in
the carousel of inner healingwhere it's like, well, I'm
coming on back, I'm coming back,I'm coming back.
This is the merry-go-round theLord himself.

(46:31):
The Lord himself can redeem you, he can heal you, he is mighty
to save, and sometimes we doneed people to help us along the
way to our healing.
Mark 5, the testimony of thefriends who ripped the roof.

(46:52):
Ripped the roof off so they canlower their friend into this
home where Jesus was ministering.
And like.
We need friends like that, yes,but also people can be a part
of our journey to healing.
But also, don't let people beyour stumbling block either.
Because later in Mark 5, at thepool of Bethesda, when Jesus

(47:20):
was talking to the man the issuewith his legs, he asked him if
he wanted to be healed, and thefirst thing he brought up was
other people.
First thing he brought up wassomeone else, and Jesus was
asking him do you want to behealed?
And I think that this is theinstance where the instance

(47:50):
where the conversation that Iactually was having with people
on Twitter and Twitter is aplace that you go on social
media.
When you don't want your pastorto see what you're saying, when
you don't want your pastor tosee how nasty you are, you go to
Twitter Because some of theseChristians, because some of
these Christians, some of theseChristians are wild.
But on Twitter the conversationactually was in light of the

(48:13):
whole situation at IHOP and Iwould love to transition to our
next segment.
But we have other things to inlight of all that, when IHOP was
going down, or things that IHOPperpetually are going down,

(48:35):
some of the conversations werelike, oh, this church hurt and
this church abuse and thisspiritual abuse and this church
pain and this thing, andeveryone's like I too, have been
transgressed and I'm like whenare we going to proclaim Jesus?
Like when are we going to?
He says, to proclaim me until Ireturn.
Do this in remembrance of meuntil I return.
And it's in his body, in hisbroken body, is our healing, in

(48:56):
his blood, is our redemption andthey're offered to him.
When he said to feast, you'regoing to feast on me, you're
going to eat my flesh, you'regoing to drink my blood, and
John six.
And he says this is true foodand true drink.
But instead we, like, allowedourselves to get fattened by our
trauma and feasted off of that,and then we almost find

(49:18):
pleasure in other people's pain.
It's so weird.
And so somebody came to me,someone was commenting to me
about you know, this is whatspiritual abuse is, and I forgot
what I said about spiritual.
I said it becomes cliche.
It's a bitter cliche spiritualabuse.
I've been spiritually abused.

(49:39):
Tell me why?
Oh, they never you know, theynever listened to my ideas.
I never got a chance at thepulpit, I didn't get to lead the
worship team.
But now that I've poured myselfout and I've served so many
hours at the church, now I justrealized that I've been
spiritually abused and I'm likethat's not how it works.
And so, anyway, all I have tosay is I was like we have a

(49:59):
healer, that's, that's the goodnews, you know.

Speaker 2 (50:03):
And do we believe him , that he will heal us and that
that works, that it actuallyworks and that, yes, you may
have a memory of your past?
Of course I hope you have amemory, you do not have amnesia,
but that memory does not affectwho you are right now.
It doesn't have to because thehealing can actually work.

(50:25):
I don't know.
King of Glory, god who createdeverything, god who created you,
you think he can also heal youfully.
Maybe Could you believe himRight.

Speaker 1 (50:39):
What if half these people in the chapter of healing
and all of Mark 5 and a littlebit mark six um, some
deliverance happened in mark sixand mark five, but in this fat
chapter, right, all of theseepisodes of healing, what if
somebody was like, yeah, maybejesus can do it?
You mean, they put all theirchips on the table.

(50:59):
The woman with the issue ofblood, like they put all of
their chips on the table.
You know what, if she reachedout to his, the hem of his
garment, and nothing happened,she would have been beaten,
probably to death.
She wasn't supposed to be in themidst of people.
She was considered unclean.
I'm air quoting for thepodcasters.
She was considered unclean andso, like you know that those

(51:22):
aren't the people who go, maybehe could heal.
You mean when, when Jairus wentto him because his daughter was
sick, he didn't leave his dyingdaughter with strangers so that
maybe Jesus could do it.
You understand like their hopewas in him and hope did not fail

(51:45):
, and so we just need enoughleaders.
There's so many people who arelike discipling us in our pain,
discipling us in our trauma, andthey want us to stay there.
Because, if we, if we move onfrom it, we won't need the phone
calls, we won't need the emails, we won't need to schedule the

(52:05):
one-on-ones.
Maybe you won't buy my master'sclass, if you actually do get
this healing but if there wereleaders who were pointing people
to the cross, to him and himcrucified, and show him, show
them his wounds, do you knowthat everything that happened to
you was paid for in his wounds?
The sexual misconduct in hiswounds was paid for in his

(52:32):
wounds.
The physical pain, theemotional pain.
Maybe you've been contendingfor like, hey, I don't want this
limp anymore.
Hey, maybe I don't want thisbum shoulder.
Hey, I got a cancer diagnosisand we don't like, there isn't a
cheap version of this hope,there isn't a cheap version of

(52:53):
his grace, there's no cheapversion of the gospel.
It's Christ and him crucified.
And when you behold the lamb,you behold your breakthrough,
behold your.
When you behold the lamb, youbehold your breakthrough.
We're looking, getting fixatedon the wrong thing, and so I

(53:30):
don't know how we got here.
But I was just talking about,like, where we've been in this
place, where we have, you knowwell, we've kind of alienated
the purity not just of thegospel of grace, but the gospel
of his healing, the gospel ofredemption, the gospel of
wholeness.
Right, first thessalonians fivelike for you to be whole, whole
, like holistically whole.
Okay, like that whole messagewas almost like holistically
spirit, soul and body.
Okay, he doesn't put it in theword if it wasn't attainable,

(53:54):
and so I think it's like 518 andthen 522 was like he, he is
faithful to do it, only the Lord, and so that's no poo-poo on
the people who do inner healing,even if that's your ministry.
There's no poo-poo on you, justtake him to the cross.

(54:14):
There's no poo-poo on you if youhave done inner healing, like
if you signed up for sessions,there's no problem with inner
healing, as long as they'retaking you to Jesus.
Don't take you to your past.
He's never like his past, likewhy are you going to a place
that Jesus doesn't even remember?
Like he's forgotten it, and so,like, the reason why we move

(54:36):
forward is because, like theLord has already, like this new
day that he's always in, likeJesus is always in the new day.
His new day, his mercies arenew every day.
He's not going to go back to2010.
He's not going to back to 1988.
He ain't going to go back to1976.
Like, the Lord is doing a newthing in your life, and so don't

(55:01):
go, don't dwell in the placethat the Lord isn't in,
especially if he ain't send you.

Speaker 2 (55:04):
Yeah, absolutely.
I definitely think that that'sa good reminder that the Lord
will not bring you to the pastunless he has something to say
about it.
And if he doesn't, then you'rejust digging there on your own
without the help and revelationof the Holy Spirit.
You're not going to get anyhealing, you're not going to get
anything done that way at all.

Speaker 1 (55:25):
If he brings you to the past is only to redeem it.
Yeah, he's not going to showyou like oh, remember, when you
like stole $5 out of your mom'spocketbook.
Like we need to talk about thatwhat?

Speaker 2 (55:38):
Yeah, usually, I think too, one of the ways that
Christians get trapped when theystart learning about the inner
healing process is they begin toblame themselves for everything
.
And if you talk to people about, like a spiritual issue that
you have and it's someone who'slike very from that inner
healing culture, they'll be like, well, what did you do?

(55:59):
What did you do wrong?
I'm sorry.
Did you forget that the enemycomes to steal, kill, destroy
and lie?
Right, right you really need toask these questions when it
comes to Christians dealing withcertain things, because a lot
of times, like majority of thetime, it's unwarranted and a lot
of times, if you get in thislike mindset of that inner

(56:21):
healing culture, you'll have amemory and you'll be like I'm
not over it and I'll screw youup for weeks, months on end.
You're trying to figure outwhat's the solution or you could
just reject it because maybethe enemy sent you a thought and
wanted to get you thinking thatyou were stuck and
unfortunately, like I said, alot of inner healing ministries
are great and I've gotten helpfrom them, but that culture can

(56:44):
be really damaging.

Speaker 1 (56:46):
Yes, yeah, the culture, you're right, and the
culture it keeps.

Speaker 2 (56:53):
Oh God, it's like it's really insufferable to
first and I think also the otherissue and this is more of an
annoyance than like so much ofthe deep problem that we've been
discussing but it's so annoyingthat every single time I talk
to somebody in a culture likethis and the only thing they
ever want to do is give you asozo, they just want to like you

(57:15):
tell them something and they'relike maybe even like a joke,
and it's like maybe a little bitself-deprecating, maybe it's
just like I don't know.
Just you say something and it'snot completely to them kosher,
and they'll be like well, wheredid that come from and why did
you start believing that?
And like they're trying to likepsychoanalyze themselves each

(57:36):
other and like there's no joy.
It's always work, work, workall the time.
Work, work, work on your soul.

Speaker 1 (57:45):
And is that why people, among other reasons, get
burned out?
Is that why, like, why so weary?
Oh, my soul, like, why downcast?
You know Jesus himself had said, of course, jesus said many
things, but come to me all whoare weary and burdened, and I

(58:07):
will give you rest.
That rest that he said, if youkeep reading the verse, is
actually the rest for our souls.
So I will give you rest foryour soul, and a lot of us get
tired in that area.
Right, our spirit isn't tired.
Our spirit is incorruptible.
We don't, we can't screw up ourspirit.
It was never ours to to tamperwith, but our soul, like he said

(58:29):
, our soul, so I mean our spirit, is redeemed by christ.
If you're in christ, those youknow um qualifications for your
spirit being incorruptible isonly because of christ.
But, um, yeah, like, that's whysome people are so tired.
They're so tired and becausethey're they're carrying burdens

(58:49):
that jesus longs to have.
He's like, give it to me, myyoke is easy, my yoke is easy
and my burden is light.
And so, um, because he knows,like having him being the great
high priest who can empathizewith every, every sorrow and woe
that we've been through, amongmany reasons why he walked on

(59:11):
this earth among us, so he's nottalking out of like this estate
.
Like you know, like Mordecaisaid to Esther, like you know,
don't think just because you'rein his palace that you're
untouchable.
You know, jesus came among hispeople so that he can empathize
with wow, this world is heavy.
But then he said, like, takeheart, because I've overcome the

(59:33):
world.
I can empathize with thetiredness, the heaviness.
Sometimes you wake up and thereare days where you feel like
why am I even depressed?
Like why do I feel, feel heavy?
This isn't even mine to haveand that's real.

Speaker 2 (59:47):
But you bring that all under the subjugation of
christ and and watch it, watchit work, watch it work honestly,
um as well, like what you said,like you, you find yourself
under, under heaviness and onceagain, like when I was coming
from a culture and a mindset of,like inner healing always goes

(01:00:12):
to blame the soul.
Honestly, put so much blame onthe soul when I realized that a
lot of things were actually justthe enemy taking advantage of
me, not knowing my identity inChrist and therefore my
authority in it.
Actually just the enemy takingadvantage of me not knowing my
identity in christ and thereforemy authority in it.
Oh, light switch on acompletely different.
I used to think that I was likemoodier, and it's not.

(01:00:34):
It's like the enemy just wantsto accuse your conscience.
Where's?
your conscience, it's your soul.
He just wants to bring thingsup.
So that's what he does.
Like that's the thing that theinner people, inner healing
people, need to understand is,if you keep getting hit with
past things, please be awarethat that is like the enemy's
main ammo, because if he'strying to accuse your conscience

(01:00:55):
, which is a part of your soul,then he's going to use things
that you are conscious of,things that have happened to you
.
He will bring up the past andso often he brings up things.
And it's just him bringingthings up and being a little
dick what he does.
And it's wild because I'll find, whether he does it in an

(01:01:20):
atmosphere, just by, you know,being around and being obsessed
with god as he is.
He's so obsessed with jesusit's actually very embarrassing,
um, because like, obviouslyit's not as cute as our
obsession, but he'll, like,he'll use other things.
He'll use other soulish things,whether it's like tv shows and

(01:01:40):
films and and music, to triggercertain emotions so that he can
get in your conscience Correct,and then you think I'm losing it
, I have to go get help, andit's actually like you can.
Just, it's like what Paul saidit's so simple, take your
thoughts captive.
And this is when he's talkingabout spiritual warfare.
In this part of the scripture.

(01:02:02):
He is talking about spiritualwarfare and what he says about
it is to take your thoughtscaptive.
It's so much simpler whenpeople are making it out to be.
It's like you can actually justcrumple thoughts up and put
them in the trash.
If you're having troublecrumpling them, you need help
from God.
Maybe you have to work throughsomething or maybe you just need

(01:02:23):
help to crumple it.
You ask you cross that bridgewhen you get to it.
But with spiritual warfare,paul said take your thoughts
captive, submit them to christright.

Speaker 1 (01:02:36):
Yeah, something that should be told to the christian
community is um, you are notyour thoughts.
And if Christians heard thatand the alphabet community heard
that more often, there'dprobably be a lot less
transitioning happening whenpeople realize that they are not

(01:02:59):
their thoughts.
You are not your thoughts.
I am not a murderer justbecause I sit in Dallas traffic
and I get mad at the person whocut me off.
I am not my thoughts, becausewe're not our thoughts.
We have the ability to takethat thought captive and cast it
First.

(01:03:19):
Peter 5 says cast your caresupon the Lord.
That cast word was cast wordwas like about like throwing,
like, throw it, like overhead,like just go like a dodgeball,
um, and so that's like how fastwe should rid of it.
And these are like I love.
I guess if I was more preparedto talk about this, I would show

(01:03:41):
you that when it comes tothings, the enemy of your soul,
or, as Jason Silva was saying,like the enemy of bliss, I think
he was saying.
I have highlighted in one of myBibles that when it comes to
those things, every instructionthe Lord gave were action words

(01:04:03):
Like take the thought captive,cast your cares upon him, cast
down.
You know what I mean and I waslike, wow, that is like an
active part we get to play in,like our stewardship of our soul
, and I love it.
Like even the come to me allwho are weary and burdened I'll
give you rest, rest, like thatis an action like.

(01:04:23):
Come to him, like, uh,proactively partner with the
lord in this, like, and he'slike I do the heavy lifting baby
, like I don't even worry aboutit, like my yoke is easy, like
let's do the exchange.
My yoke is easy, but most ofthe time is action, words and
all of it.
The best news ever I will giveyou guys all of it is by faith,

(01:04:47):
right, because you're just kindof thinking like, oh, so do I
have to?
Like, is this something Ishould work out?
Like all of it is by faith.
But when we take these thingsand put it under subjugation of
the Lord, like where he issovereign and he reigns, even
transform like, transform yourmind, like these are action

(01:05:07):
words and um, it's basicallyjust the good news that you do
not have an inactive faith,right, it is not like our gym
membership cards, like it is notjust there and inactive, like
he's a very active God who wantsto co-labor with you.

(01:05:27):
Right, but he does the heavylifting.
It's the best news, but anyway.

Speaker 2 (01:05:38):
Can I read that verse from 1 Thessalonians that you
brought up earlier?

Speaker 1 (01:05:42):
Yeah, yeah 1 Thessalonians 5.
5.
Earlier.
Yeah, yeah, first Thessaloniansfive Five 23.

Speaker 2 (01:05:48):
I'm going to read through 24.
May the God of Shalom make youcompletely holy.
May your entire spirit, souland body be kept blameless for
the coming of our Lord Yeshuathe Messiah.
The one calling you is faithfuland he will do it.
I think it's a good idea topoint out the word shalom there.

(01:06:12):
May the God of shalom shalombeing peace.
But peace in the Hebrew alsomeans wholeness, nothing missing
, nothing broken.
So may the God of wholenessmake you completely holy.
May your entire spirit, souland body be kept blameless for
the coming of our Lord Yeshuathe Messiah.

(01:06:32):
The one calling you is faithfuland he will do it.

Speaker 1 (01:06:38):
He will do it.
Were you reading the completeJewish that I was Okay.
The tree of life says.
Verse 24 says faithful is theone who calls you and he will
make it happen.
Oh, we love that yes, now thegod of show, now may the god of
shalom wow.

(01:07:00):
May the god of shalom himselfmake you completely holy and may
your whole spirit and soul andbody be kept blameless at the
coming of our Lord.
I have notes in my FirstThessalonians.

(01:07:22):
Oh, this was pro tip.
I don't always read my notes inmy Bible to the public, but I
wrote to myself.
I feel the Lord I'm not tryingto shake it off, but I'm trying
not to manifest off, but I'mtrying not to manifest.

(01:07:52):
Yeah, in 2024, verse 16, he toldme to take note of this this
year, verse 16 through 22,.
Actually he said all of theseare your instructions for 2024.
It says to rejoice always, topray constantly and in
everything, give thanks, forthis is God's will for you in
Messiah Yeshua.
But also do not quench thespirit, do not despise prophetic

(01:08:17):
messages, but test all thingsand hold fast to what is good
and keep away from every kind ofevil.
And hold fast to what is goodand keep away from every kind of
evil.
So, like those, I probablyshould have it on a like
whiteboard, but those,specifically those verses he
told me to take heed for thisyear, for the most part, um,

(01:08:40):
yeah, maybe even likesubconsciously, I've been doing
it more than I think because Imean I've been doing a lot of
testing, been testing a lot ofthings and not and trying not to
despise prophetic messages, butI've been testing things.
I don't be despising theseprophetic messages Doesn't mean
I don't have to despise hisprophets, but I do not despise

(01:09:04):
prophetic messages and alwaysalleged prophets alleged
prophets and always, and alsokeep away from every kind of
evil.
Praise god.
Yeah, let's, let's do a quicklittle.
Did you hear?
All right?

(01:09:25):
So, yeah, we're going to go toa couple of did you hear's?
Because some things havehappened since we've been here,
or since we haven't been around,I guess, and we're just going
to give our quick thoughtsbecause people are popping in

(01:09:45):
and out of the podcast.
Some people are like oh, thiswas recommended to me by a
friend.
Some people are like, hey, I'min and out.
What's happening, what's nothappening.
We try to chapter mark whatwe're talking about, because
sometimes people want to gostraight to Bible, sometimes
people want to do the popculture stuff.
Sometimes people are likewhat's the tea on this situation

(01:10:06):
?
Or like, what insight do youguys have?
And so we're here.
Thanks for checking out thepodcast.
Seriously, we are thankful thatthere's a number of you guys
that would subscribe, that youwould subscribe and care and
have the notifications and getto know us.
We'll, we'll get to.

(01:10:28):
Did you hear?
So much has happened and youknow, we're just going to give
you a little bit, a littlepopcorn.
Hey, this is what we think.
This is cool.
Well, maybe not.
Let me not, let me not.
Let me not say that, um, to thebest of our ability, to the
best of our knowledge, we'rehere to bring what's happening

(01:10:49):
modernly in the news, today'scurrent news, and bring it
through the lens of the gospel.
To the best of our ability,that's what we're going to try
to do, take it or leave it.
We're happy that you'd hang outhere, thanks for checking us
out, but that's really what weare in, happy and holy right, we
talk about a lot of biblicalthings, we talk a lot of Bible,

(01:11:10):
but we talk about today's news,today's culture, because through
the news is honestly how theyshape your culture.
I know a lot of people likeChris Valton I've heard Georgian
Banoff also say this that, like, the world should be peripheral
to the church.
But the church is peripheral tothe world and we should be

(01:11:31):
setting the pace as kingdompeople, as a church people.
But we don't Not right now.
Right, I don't think it's.
I don't know if it's ever notbeen this way, but I'm just
saying right now the church isreally reactive and not
proactive way.
But I'm just saying right nowthe church is really reactive
and not proactive.
And so we tend to look atthings.
Like you know, I'm not aclickbait person.
Maybe because I work in socialmedia, I was, like you know, I

(01:11:56):
have been immune to maybe theclickbait, but I'm not a
clickbait person.
I'm not like, oh my God, thisjust happened.
We need to report on it, weneed to give an opinion, because
good things are worth waitingfor and the truth is worth
waiting for.
And lately there's been a lotof things, jay, I had shared on

(01:12:17):
my Facebook, which you know of,but there had been a lot of
things that have been likeregurgitated news, right, like,
as soon as something happens, alot of people are reporting on
it and they immediately willcopy and paste what somebody
else has and they're just likeboom, boom, boom, without
checking the credentials,without checking the credibility
, without checking to see if,like, this is factual.

(01:12:38):
Somebody reported this.
I'm also reporting news and soI need to copy what this
person's saying and all shewrote.
And so that easily, it is thateasy to spread false news and to
project fear and anxiety.
Okay, so when Israel and Iran,they went back and forth and

(01:13:00):
there was a clap back and thisany other thing everybody was
like, oh World know, they wentback and forth and there was a
clap back and just any otherthing.
Everybody's like, oh, world WarThree.
And like everyone's caption wasthe same Israel strikes back.
World War Three is underway andwe know Jesus's promise in
Matthew was that there's goingto be wars and rumors of wars,
like we know that right over andover.
He has told us.

(01:13:21):
But it's crazy.
I mean not only Twitter,twitter, like I've kind of been
in the twitter world right now.

Speaker 2 (01:13:29):
Um, because, honestly , instagram's so boring.

Speaker 1 (01:13:31):
But like super boring is um israel instagram and
facebook and twitter, like theywere all people were all doing
the same thing.
It's like copy and pasting,downloading everybody else's
video, like it was crazy, sothat happened.
And then a week later it's likethe whole Mark Driscoll thing,
but it was the same thing.

(01:13:51):
Like everyone just copy andpasted each other's stories and
they were just like malestripper in church and I was
like something ain't adding uphere.
I may not know this church, Imay not know this pastor, right?
Like a lot of people are like,oh, I know this man.
He wouldn't do that, I didn'tknow any of it.
But I did know that it was alittle fishy for so many people

(01:14:13):
to have reported this headlinein church news as quickly as
they have without allowing thesmoke to settle, and there was
something wrong with that, andso I was just calling it out.
As far as my thoughts on socialmedia, it has been one of my

(01:14:37):
least popular posts Becausepeople are just like, yeah, but
he, they need to be called outbecause this was the wrong.
And so if you've been livingunder a rock, god bless you,
you're not missing much.
But we're referring to the storythat happened in James River

(01:14:57):
Church, right, and the story wasthat there was a male stripper
at a men's conference and theywere like yo, yo jezebel's gonna
jazzy, right, and they werelike the man's dancing on a
stage pro provocatively, right.
And then even somebody reportedthere was like a madonna screen
behind him and he wasseductively swallowing a sword

(01:15:20):
and I was like this doesn't?
This just doesn't sound right.
If it's right, that's crazy.
I mean, I've seen some churchesdo some crazy things.
But something's off about thisstory and I guess this goes back
to the Thessalonians 5, 18 to20 to 22 about hey, test

(01:15:45):
everything and, you know, try tostay away from some evil, run
from it, despise it, leave italone.
And, like I said, it's notsomething like I have not been
meditating on this scriptureevery day, but maybe
subconsciously I've just beenlike this is what I have to do
every day, but maybesubconsciously I've just been

(01:16:05):
like this is what I have to do.
And because we also as acommunity and as a church have
been duped, how many times now,how many times now we have been
duped?
I mean, these past four yearsalone, we have been duped
because of social media rightand fake news, false news,
misrepresentations of pictures,fake news, false news,

(01:16:25):
misrepresentations of picturesthe whole nine.
We have been duped and so anyway, whole thing happens.
Mark Driscoll I'm a fan of MarkDriscoll.
Let me just admit now, beforeanybody finds out later, that
I've been retweeting MarkDriscoll and they call me a
fraud.
I am a fan of Mark Driscoll.
I love Mark Driscoll.
I love Mark Driscoll.

(01:16:45):
I've been listening to MarkDriscoll since back in the Mars
Hill days and the only reason Ifell off from listening to him
was because he got, you know,kind of there was like a coup
back, you know, back in MarsHill, and they kicked him out of
his position and so there hewas.
Then he fell off as far as wasnowhere and I didn't listen to

(01:17:06):
him.
And then he popped back up acouple of years ago and I was
like, oh, this is why I lovethis guy.
Now, he wasn't for everybody.
He's kind of a screamer when hepreaches.
He has calmed down a lot.
I think.
A lot of things have humbledhim and he's older now, but even
Chris Valton was like.
I've kind of like in my olderyears there are things where I

(01:17:28):
have softened up.
He said so Mark Driscoll isjust like not really that same
guy.
However, he's still as creativeas ever.
He's still as clever as ever.
I think Mark Driscoll is thatverse to be wise as a servant,
but innocent as a dove.
He may not come off and lookinnocent, but I think that his

(01:17:50):
tactics are, and he's verycreative.
So, anyway, stuff happened andboth of the pastors took heat.
Mark Driscoll, who I think wasliving by his conviction, I
don't think he, I don't think heplayed up what happened for the
sake of his material to sell.
I think it was very convenienttiming, but I think he really

(01:18:11):
believed he saw what he saw,especially if you, if he wasn't
at the session, right?

Speaker 2 (01:18:17):
Yeah, I agree it looked like because he came in
cold when that happened, Like hewent from I just saw this to
I'm speaking.
I mean that happened same day,even if several hours passed
between the performance and himgetting to speak.
Like you're processing that forless than 24 hours before being

(01:18:38):
asked to speak, and I think hetakes his responsibility as a
leader, as a preacher, veryseriously, and so his idea of
what is the holiest responsecalling it out our recording

(01:19:07):
around our work-life balance.

Speaker 1 (01:19:08):
I was kind of like I would love to share some things
about what happened, but I don'tfeel like we need to rush to be
the first people to saysomething about it, because the
truth is worth waiting for.
I felt like there was more tothe story, and there always is,
and so I mean, jamie, you canenlighten us more on those
details.
But I'm just going to say that Ithink that Mark was somebody

(01:19:32):
who truly believes hisconviction, and even the way
that people were like demonizingMark because they're just like,
oh, he's a bad man.
He's always been his way,because I think there are some
people who are still offended byhim.
And then also for PastorLindell, who, very like he was
being very honest.
He's like, bro, like if you hadan issue, you should have told

(01:19:52):
me.
Like we were in a green roomand I don't know the reason for
why Mark didn't say it.
I know what it's like to havedifficult conversations.
You're kind of like, havedifficult conversations and
you're kind of like I need thewindow to say it.
Like is this the time?
And so, um, pastor Lindell wasright in that I will say before
you you share, jamie, one of myleast favorite things that

(01:20:14):
people were saying on socialmedia.
Um, my least favorite thing, Ithink one of my least favorite
things is when people make upBible verses and, and, um, I
hate that worse than when peopletake it out of context.
But this idea of, well, it waspublic sin and because it was
public sin, it deserved an openpublic rebuke.

Speaker 2 (01:20:40):
I don't know where people read that it's not in the
Bible.
If anyone was wondering oh, Ithink that's in Leviticus.
No, it's not.
It's not in the Bible.
The only layout we have forconfronting someone in sin is
privately.
Then with some leadership, help.
Witness balloons.

(01:21:02):
For those of you who are notwatching balloons, I don't know
why I keep triggering these Forsome reason.
Two fingers just really makesballoons pop up.

Speaker 1 (01:21:11):
Yeah, I can help you after.
It's a setting on our computer.
If you did an update, there's asetting on our computer.
You have to turn off.

Speaker 2 (01:21:20):
Thank you, I appreciate you.
Tech Genius yes, yes, thank you, I appreciate you.
Tech.

Speaker 1 (01:21:22):
Genius.

Speaker 2 (01:21:26):
Yes, so yes, after step two, step three send public
rebuke.
And I've actually seen leadersdo this well, where there was a
situation in a church in NewYork City where it was
confronted privately, it wasthen confronted with leadership
and the person was still notrepentant and the pastor had to
publicly say we are breakingties with this person who was in

(01:21:49):
our congregation.
And this is, and they said, thefullness of what happened.
I love that so much becausethere was no gossip, because he
was like here is everything thathappened.

Speaker 1 (01:21:58):
That's a good way to not gossip.

Speaker 2 (01:22:00):
Yeah, it was the best , I was so healthy.
He was like hey, after theSunday sermon he was like, if
you consider this church yourhome, you stay because we have
something very important to sayto you.
So all the guests left andeverybody who considered the
church home, he was like allright, here's everything that
happened, the grimy, dirtydetails.
Because you know what, we areadults and I am so sick of the

(01:22:21):
church treating and I am so sickof the church treating grown
adults like they are children.
It's so condescending and itwas so honoring as part of that
congregation to be brought intosomething that was messy and to
basically feel like, hey, you'reresponsible, like you're a
responsible, mature adult andyou can handle hearing this

(01:22:43):
information.

Speaker 1 (01:22:45):
Right.

Speaker 2 (01:22:46):
And again, no gossip.

Speaker 1 (01:22:49):
You know why?
Because nothing was left in thedark.

Speaker 2 (01:22:52):
Yep, which also makes no place for shame.

Speaker 1 (01:22:57):
Exactly.

Speaker 2 (01:22:58):
I would just like to call the leaders of the church
in the southeastern states ofAmerica to listen to me right
now there's no gossip becauseeverything's out in the open, so
there's no place for shame.
That will fix the bulk of theproblems in your church.
You are welcome.

Speaker 1 (01:23:20):
Yeah, and also teaching your congregation the
difference between shame andconviction.
Yeah, and also teaching yourcongregation, the difference
between shame and conviction.
Oh, yes, you know, and so, yeah, that's really good, jay.
So Matthew 18 is the principleon which everybody has been, you
know, trying to live and die by.
I guess, when it came to thesituation which I will say,

(01:23:42):
everyone would love toappropriate Matthew 18 until
it's them.
When it's them, then they'rejust like no, no, no, no, no,
slow down, pastor.
But so this like it's open sin,so it deserves an open rebuke.
That is regurgitated,hand-me-down nonsense that you

(01:24:03):
probably saw on social media andthen you reiterated it because
it sounded biblical.
But if you want to get biblicalabout sin, open sin, sin has
happened in the public.
Maybe there isn't a verse aboutit, but we can find an instance
in the Bible.
And what did Jesus do withsomeone who was caught publicly

(01:24:25):
sinning, who was caught in theact of adultery?
A group of protesters, to makeit relevant to today, a group of
protesters came to him bringingthis woman before him who was
caught in open sin.
Okay, because need us to remindyou that if she had been caught

(01:24:46):
in the act of adultery, whichmeans that she has been
adulterous with this man severaltimes, they had to follow her
pattern, which means that theyopenly knew what she was doing
with said man.
And in this act of adultery,they ripped the woman off of the
man and brought the womanbefore Jesus.

(01:25:06):
And so, as all of her accusersstood there and they said to
Jesus, the angry mob said to himwhat are we going to do Now?
If Matthew 18 was meant to beapplied and open sin deserves
open rebuke, wouldn't you thinkthat would be a great time for
Jesus to openly rebuke her?

Speaker 2 (01:25:26):
If that were the case , yes, Wouldn't you think?

Speaker 1 (01:25:32):
And so at that moment , he says to the angry mob, to
the protesters, to the rioters,he said to them he who is
without sin cast the first stone.
And that's what he did withopen sin.
Okay, so open sin got a dose ofopen grace, because the grace

(01:25:55):
that she was given before thismob was who stands to condemn
you?
The mob actually left becausethey were looking for someone to
shame, as you're talking about.
They were looking for someoneto shame makes them feel better
that they could shame somebody,and those are are.
You know, there are things wherepeople are like, well, the

(01:26:15):
Trinity is in the Bible, well,but instances of the Trinity is
in the Bible, therefore theTrinity is real.
And so when people are likeyou're looking for verses, but I
can point to you episodes likeyou're making up verses that
aren't there, but then when youneed a biblical example, I can
point you to it.
Okay, and so open sin deservesopen rebuke.

(01:26:36):
Stop it.
So let's just throw that outwith the dog water.
And so, other than that, thisidea of every leader, especially
our modern day prophets, leader, especially our modern day

(01:26:56):
prophets, needing to comment onit, like we need to know what
sin is, or we need to knowwhat's bad from good, what's
right and from what's from wrong.
Like listen, if people areunder profits and you don't know
what's right from wrong, thenyou need to go back and check
this profit that you're under.
Because, like produces like aprofit, should be telling you
there is no gray area with areal profit.

(01:27:19):
Okay, I'm not here to be likethat's a false profit, but I'm
saying that like someone who isa profit.
Okay, I'm not talking aboutsomeone who's prophetic.
I'm saying someone who is aprophet will help you to
distinguish what's right fromwrong, and so if this person

(01:27:40):
needs to constantly tell youwhat's right and what's wrong,
they are not raising you up inthe way of the spirit, and so we
didn't need to know the visualsin order to determine what was
wrong and the way.
Again, I think I told youbefore, jay, even like with the

(01:28:01):
stuff that's happening with IHOPand some of the things, like
the pictures and this, I'm likein this day and age, I don't
believe any media and you knowwhat helped me lose faith in
pictures, in uh pictures andvideos, not just ai law and
order, law and order.
Yes, I'm in the law and order um, and not just ai, but you know

(01:28:23):
what ruined it for me?
Britney spears's accountbritney spears's account, for
sure, but also amber heard andjohnny depp.

Speaker 2 (01:28:33):
Oh, now remember that was some bs.

Speaker 1 (01:28:37):
Yes, remember she altered and doctored a photo
where she said she got punchedin the face by him and she like
bruised herself in the face.
Then she put makeup on it andthen she slapped on some filters
and they stripped it down bythe metadata and they were like
oh, you altered this picture onthis date.
This is when the originalpicture was taken and this is

(01:29:00):
when you altered it.
And it was like crazy and I waslike, bro, you really can't even
trust pictures nowadays soanyway just because somebody had
a picture of a man has arms outlike this and like his body and
his shirt was off, and I don'tcare, I don't, I don't believe
you.
And so my last point about thisopen sin, open rebuke, um, and

(01:29:21):
then I'll I would love to hearyou share.
Is that the point about thatopen sin?
And the point about the like,not just prophets I don't want
to make fun of prophets but likeleaders in general, okay,
because some apostolic leadersand pastors everybody's
commenting on it, but I hatedthat everyone was starting their
like posts with like.
Some people have asked me tocomment, some people were

(01:29:44):
wondering my, my insight, likeMichael Brown, was saying that
like, oh, people have beenwaiting for me to chime in about
this.
Well, that is the opportunity.
That is the moment when theangry mob comes to you, when the
rioters and the protesters cometo you with their stones asking
you to comment on something.
That tells me two things aboutyou that you're somebody who's

(01:30:05):
always in somebody's doo-doo.
Like you're always in someone'sdrama.
You need to stop that.
Okay, you have a whole familyWorry about that.
All your children home.
Like, is everybody in school?
Like, what are you doing?
Like, worry about that.
Worry about your family, worryabout your congregation, worry
about the worry about the peoplewho are under you.
Don't be worrying aboutsomebody whose church you're not
even.
You weren't even invited tospeak at.

(01:30:27):
And so weird that people keptsaying that oh, people are
asking me to chime in, so theangry mom comes to you.
It is your responsibility as aleader to dismantle them.
So Jesus did right.
He dismantled and disarmed them.
That's your responsibility,because what does it say about
you as a leader that people feellike they have the permission
to come to you so that you cantalk crap on somebody else?

(01:30:50):
Ooh, yeah crap on somebody else.

Speaker 2 (01:30:52):
Ooh, yeah, and I think it's interesting too that
the leaders that said that samestatement.
People have been waiting for meto chime in.
They tend to be the leadersthat are always commenting on
things that have nothing to dowith them.

Speaker 1 (01:31:06):
Right, nothing to do with them.
Even if that was your spirit,even if that was your realm.
I loved a lot of people who hadchimed in on it, who were like
I was there.
Or like the one guy whose blogI think I sent you was like.
I've been under both leadersand I know them both well.
I love that guy's insight thatthat was like so and he like

(01:31:28):
didn't pull any punches right.
He was like we know that Mark'skind of theatrical and we know
that these guys are kind of overthe top with their men's
conferences, but he's like butlet's get down to the meat and
bones of the whole situation.
This is what I think happenedso wild.
So this idea of like oh, a lotof people have been asking me to
chime in turn.
Turn around to those people andyou remind them that he who's

(01:31:52):
without sin cast the first stone.
And of course this isproverbially speaking, because
if you're a Christian, youshould be living by the
revelation that you are dead tosin but alive to God.
But it's the whole idea thatworry about your own stuff,
worry about your own stuff.
You should be saying.
You know, a lot of people havebeen asking me to comment about

(01:32:16):
what's going on in ourcongregation, in our church.
These people don't developovernight.
Okay, the adulterers, thethieves, the slanderers, they
don't become this overnight.
They have been brewing andfestering and growing like mold
in your congregation.
So worry about your people,worry about your students, worry
your congregation.
So worry about your people,worry about your students, worry
about your region, worry aboutyour state, worry about your

(01:32:38):
governor, worry about your mayor, worry about your colleges,
worry about your pastor.
Before you comment on someoneelse on social media, I think.

Speaker 2 (01:32:47):
Also.
I just want to point out howmany of these alleged prophets
have commented on things andjumped to conclusions and have
said the things that were in theheadline.
When it's like you're propheticat least.
At least there's no need foryou to jump on the headline of

(01:33:07):
like a stripper was in a church.
Be so for real.
You know better.
You know better that thatwasn't happening.
Just be honest.
Don't do it for the clickbait,because now you look like a
false prophet.
If you did it for the clickbait, you look like a false prophet.
If you did it because youdidn't know better, now you just
look dumb and, at at worst, notprophetic at all, because raise

(01:33:29):
your team up.

Speaker 1 (01:33:30):
Raise your team up to do better.
Because even the one person I'mthinking I won't say her name
because she's friends with myboss, but the one person I'm
thinking of, like, she justtweets and she's like well, I
heard that.
So there is a stripper in achurch, what is the word?
What does the church come to?

Speaker 2 (01:33:44):
like, that's the most there's somebody like a grandma
who's so out of touch with likewhat's happening in the world,
kind of comment like that shewould post on facebook like if
you're like a, if you'reprophetic or a prophet, you're
like on the cutting edge, you'relike you're relevant.
But that sounded like thereason why millennials say the

(01:34:06):
thing okay, boomer.
And I don't partner with thatstatement because I find that
disrespectful and boomers arefar better than extras and far
better than Gen Z.
So I'm not going to ever saythat, but that is like one of
those comments that would makesomeone say, okay, boomer.

Speaker 1 (01:34:19):
I love boomers.
Yeah, I agree, and that was theimplication why my voice
sounded like that.
But yeah, I was just kind oflike, well, train your team to
be better.
Like you know, like, when Ilike my boss is like really big
on social media and I don't sendhim smut, like I don't, I don't
send him smut because I don'twant him like one, if it's
something that's not factual, Idon't want to send it to him.

(01:34:41):
And two, if it's something thatI'm like you don't want to see
these images anyway.
Like you mean like why would Isend you a picture of a man like
being man, like being I don'tknow?
Like I don't, I don't, I don'tfeel right sending that to you.
And so train your team to bebetter than you like train your
team to not send you that stuffor get better and maybe a little

(01:35:04):
bit more investigative.
Christians forget that you aresocial commenters and not
journalists.
You, you act like you'rejournalists because you try to
come to us with news, but reallyyou're a social comment
commentator and and that's okay,that's okay like I, I don't
care that you're a socialcommentator.
Like like um, sean bowles is agreat example.

(01:35:26):
Like I think he's a little bitmore journalistic than most, but
he's a social commentator and Ilove it because he's always
bringing like great insight orlike optimistic insight or he's
like, hey, this is what's goingon.
I love that about sean um.
But sometimes some of thesequote-unquote like well-known
prophets or leaders in ourchurch come and they're just

(01:35:48):
like you're like you're breakingnews, no, no, no.
Like you know when you'retelling me that war three is
under underway because theseyou're breaking news.
No, no, no.
Like you know when you'retelling me that World War III is
underway, because you're makingit sound like it's tomorrow and
so like, if you don't have thewhole truth, don't share the
truth at all.

Speaker 2 (01:36:01):
Yeah, amen, all right , so let's get into it.
We have some updates and wehave some clarifications.
For those of you who think astripper was at a church, that,
and you still think that afterthis past week of news, it's a
sword swallower who was hired asentertainment at a men's
conference, which entertainmentat a men's conference is a

(01:36:25):
separate conversation.
Men's and women's conferencesare both very embarrassing and
that is a separate conversationfor a separate day.
But, that being said, I'mtelling you right now we should
have never divided us, becausewhen we divide us, each goes off
their own separate embarrassingtrail monster trucks towards
wild wars and all sorts like bmxbikes, whatever the boys like,

(01:36:48):
and then they just give us thebook of ruth and the book of
esther over and over again andthey tell us you don't need a
man, but here's how to preparefor your husband.
Both of you are veryembarrassing.
Please stop, okay, okay.
So a lot of you know that afterMark publicly reb uh Lindell

(01:37:10):
and um John, or is it John?

Speaker 1 (01:37:16):
is John.

Speaker 2 (01:37:16):
It's John, thank you.
After Mark publicly rebukedJohn Lindell and James River
church, he and John went onstage.
They talked it out.
They seemed to reconcile,things seemed cool and moved on,
and since then John has madesome comments on a Sunday sermon

(01:37:45):
and he apologized for invitingboth Driscoll and Magala which
is the last name of theSwordswallow, his name is Alex
Magala to the Stronger Men'sConference which took place in
mid-April.
Okay, so this is his comment.
I want to apologize and let youknow I take full responsibility

(01:38:07):
for the decision that was madeto invite Mark Driscoll and Alex
Magala to the Stronger Men'sConference.
I am deeply saddened by thedivision that our invitation has
brought to the body of Christ.
It was never our intent andapparently, days prior, during a
Wednesday service, lindellrevealed Driscoll had accused
one of his sons, brandon Lindell, of a list of dark sins.

(01:38:28):
He went on to call Driscoll'sbehavior in recent days as
demonic and urged the Scottsdalebased preacher to repent for
his actions.
So Driscoll responded via hisTwitter account I'm not calling
it X, no and he said toleranceis demonic when the church gets

(01:38:49):
naughtier than the culture.
They an abomination which let's.
Let's not pretend that.
Anything that happened that weknow about.
I don't know what he accusedhis son of doing, but, um, right
, short short of a lot of thingsthat I just don't even want to
say out loud, I just don't thinkthat that's true, because word

(01:39:09):
swallowing a show definitelycannot be any naughtier than, um
, the absolute abomination thatis happening because of the
ligabatococ community, correct?
So, uh, uh, driscoll, of course, is capitalizing on the
attention via the social mediato promote his book, which

(01:39:32):
relevant new days, old demons,and he must've thought, like
when he, when he saw everything,like what a gift.
I can just like use all theresearch that I've been doing,
probably for this book, whichalso probably colored his
response.
If he's been doing a lot ofresearch about old demons and
then sees this, it's going tomess with his psyche.

Speaker 1 (01:39:55):
Really good point.

Speaker 2 (01:39:56):
That will be his lens that he looks through.
I think we actually do need tojust kind of back up a little
bit and realize that the churchhas authority on earth and the
church has righteousness,because the reason why it was so

(01:40:16):
dangerous for the Jewish peopleto get involved in anything,
even symbolically, part of thepagan culture around them was
because they had no way to getredemption.
So if they looked at a swordswallower and their conscience

(01:40:39):
was defiled because of it, theenemy would have access to their
lives and the lives of theirfamily through them, and there
was no redemption Correct.
There was no redemption CorrectIn the days of the church.

(01:41:00):
Can we stop acting like Jezebeland Bale and Molech have any
power or authority unless wegive it to them by giving this
kind of attention?
Or can we just be like?
If a demon is like, oh, I haveaccess to this church because
you worship me, because you sawa sword swallower, you could be
just like oh, I have access tothis church because you worship
me, because you saw a swordswallower.
You could be just like, oh no,that was a man who was
swallowing a sword and hadnothing to do with you.
If we could just continue totell the enemy that he has no

(01:41:23):
place here.
He can stop violating ourconsciences and getting access
to our thoughts, our minds, ourchurches, our culture.
We have to let him know he's aspowerless as he is right
everything that he has done tomaintain power in this age has
been a total illusion.
The only reason it's soeffective is because there are a
lot of idiots believing him.

(01:41:44):
Right, he has idiots who are onhis side, who are minions, who
believe him, and then there arethe most importantly.
There is the church, the onlyentity that has power on the
earth in this age, and theybelieve him.
They believe he has authority.
We are the problem.

Speaker 1 (01:42:00):
We are the problem, as Bill Johnson has famously
been known for saying, that whenyou believe the lie, you
empower the liar.

Speaker 2 (01:42:12):
Absolutely, absolutely, absolutely.
And I think that whether ifyou're a person who really
thinks that this is such ahorrific thing, because
obviously it was dumb it wasdumb to invite a sword swallower
.
It would be dumb if they hadmonster trucks Both are dumb.

Speaker 1 (01:42:30):
I'm screaming.
And he did say, right, like hewas, like we probably shouldn't
have um invited him.
Did he say that?
I think he did.

Speaker 2 (01:42:39):
I think he did say that and I think the the maybe
the reason why this is probablythe dumber than the other types
of entertainment they've had isbecause it violates weak
consciences.
There are people in the crowdwith a weak conscience.
It is a problem for them.

Speaker 1 (01:42:55):
Yes.

Speaker 2 (01:42:56):
Just like how Romans 14, Paul says hey, if you eat
meat sacrificed to an idol,ain't no thing, but if somebody
does believe that that has powerto give you demons or whatever,
don't eat it for their sake,because you're going to make
them feel like they've donesomething wrong or something

(01:43:17):
wrong.
So really, I think, when itcomes to to this, I personally
like I don't.
Well, I don't think the churchis a place for this.
But if a bunch of Christianswent to see a sports wall, or, I
don't think that's a problem,but I do think it could violate
a lot of people's consciencesand that is an issue, think
that's a problem, but I do thinkit could violate a lot of
people's consciences and that isan issue.

Speaker 1 (01:43:35):
It's like.
It's like having a potluck atthe church and then bringing a
bunch of hard ciders you knowour hard seltzers like,
obviously, like you know, well,we shouldn't have a problem with
alcoholism, but some people'sstory is that they've been
delivered from alcoholism.
Some people still struggle withalcohol.
So you'd be like well, this ischurch, you shouldn't be an
alcoholic, you shouldn't be adrunk.

(01:43:56):
Well, why is it at the potluck?
And it's because of otherpeople's consciences, and do you
just want to honor that?

Speaker 2 (01:44:04):
Yeah, absolutely so.
Well, lindell didn't explainexactly why he was apologizing
for inviting Magala, which Ithink was actually probably
smart, because Alex is prettyunaware of why this is causing

(01:44:24):
so much drama.
He's not part of this crazy.
This Pentecostal culture is alittle bit weird.
We're strange people and he'sjust not little bit.
It's a little bit weird, umwe're.
We're strange people and he'sjust not.
He just doesn't know what'sgoing on.
He didn't read the Bible likethat.
He don't know Right.
So, um, he did reportedly tellhis congregation last Wednesday

(01:44:47):
this is from this article beingwritten, which must've been this
past week that Magala'sperformance was appropriate for
a men's conference and that thesword swaller became a born
again Christian a decade ago andattends Mosaic Church in Los
Angeles.
So Alex made a video onInstagram to talk about the
things that Lindell said abouthim.

(01:45:07):
So he did clarify that he didnot become a Christian 10 years
ago because he was born in anOrthodox Christian family and as
such, he explained, he wentthrough the ceremony of becoming
a Christian as a baby.
Um, so he's, culturally he'snot familiar and, if you even
just listen to his accent, likehe's not familiar with the whole
America born again Christianthing.

(01:45:27):
And I think also we need tonote that being like baptized as
an adult probably wasn'twidespread, most likely until
the 70s.
I would say People do forgetthat, but the Jesus People
movement is actually whatnormalized getting baptized as

(01:45:48):
an adult.
Prior to that, most Americanswho are Christians were usually
baptized either as babies inOrthodox or Catholic ceremonies,
or you are dedicated to achurch in a Protestant place and
then you get baptized, maybe inyour older childhood or young
teen years, correct?

(01:46:09):
So this is just really notfamiliar to him outside, because
he's not an american right um.
He also added that driscoll'srebuke of him was completely
misguided.
He um was accused of by markripping his shirt off like a
stripper.
He removed his leather vest toprove that he was actually

(01:46:32):
swallowing a sword and said thatwearing the top was also
unnecessary weight that couldhave hindered the stunts he
performed on the pole.
And I think this makes totalsense, because if you're leaning
your head back and you'reswallowing a sword, you know,
you think it's hiding.
It's hiding somewhere in theshirt and it's an important part
of magic tricks to show people.
I mean, granted, he was reallyswallowing this word, but all

(01:46:54):
magic tricks they do this.
They're like see, I'm for realdoing this magic trick and
that's pretty normal within aperformance.
And he also noted that while hehas attended Mosaic Church in
the past.
He's not a regular attender.
He said he went because helikes Pastor Erwin McManus and
his preaching.
And he went because his likespastor erwin mcmanus and his

(01:47:14):
preaching.
And he went because his friendsgo and um, as somebody who has
been to mosaic church in laalthough this was in the 2010s
um, as a visitor who's in myneighborhood very convenient,
it's a.
It's a nice church.
Everyone's a good guy.
It's.
It's legitimate, it's.
It's a.
I would say you're likerun-of-the-mill los angeles
evangelical, non-denominationalkind of church.

(01:47:36):
Yes, and I don't have a problemwith it.
A lot of artists there and it'sa great place to go.
If you're in the industry andyou want to network with the
behind the scenes types ofpeople, yes, really good.
If you need to know likedirectors, writing guys, like
lighting guys those very helpful.
Yeah, shout out to our lachurches and if you want to meet
failed comedians and umup-and-coming actors, you go to

(01:48:00):
oasis.
So, oh, I like that church too,but but there are a lot of
failed comedians there oh yeah,I wonder why they all conjugate
there I don't know.

Speaker 1 (01:48:13):
Why particularly that one?
But yes, shout out to our LAchurches for holding it down out
there.
I will also add to the list ofrecommendations Evergreen.

Speaker 2 (01:48:22):
Oh yes.

Speaker 1 (01:48:23):
Love Pastor Tommy.
He's a good friend of mine, butI shout out to Evergreen Oasis
and Mosaic.

Speaker 2 (01:48:31):
And I have a friend who goes to Vintage Heard great
things.

Speaker 1 (01:48:34):
Vintage, oh my gosh.
Yeah, I haven't.
I haven't dabbled in vintageyet.
That's good to know.

Speaker 2 (01:48:39):
Yeah, actually, she just sent me an audio message
today saying that the sermon wasreally good and it's from
somebody who has high standardslike us.
Ooh Yep.
So Alex went on to say I knowmy way of expressing my faith is
different.
When I perform, I swallow asword and attempt attempting a
death defying stunt, climbing ontop of the pole and then going

(01:49:00):
upside down.
The moment when I dropped down,that to me is when I give my
life to God, and the moment whenI stopped one inch before
hitting the ground, that's themoment when I get saved by God.
It's a very artistic way oflooking.

Speaker 1 (01:49:12):
Oh so it's a very artistic way of looking.
Oh so it's like a human video.

Speaker 2 (01:49:21):
Yeah why didn't they just say that from the beginning
?
Um, all, all of the amount ofdrama the church has caused for
for what and for why, um, andthe other thing you know how you
would have just dispelled that.

Speaker 1 (01:49:32):
He should have been playing Lifehouse.
Just play Lifehouse while hewas doing the trick, and people
would have core memory wouldhave been unlocked and like
you're all I want, you're all Ineed, boom human video.
Oh, this isn't seductiveseductive.

Speaker 2 (01:49:50):
Yeah no, that's a genius idea, because when that
song comes on the Christians arelike sleeper agents.

Speaker 1 (01:50:04):
We're like youth group youth group.
What do we do?
Awakened All of a sudden, welook down and we're in all black
.

Speaker 2 (01:50:14):
They should have just said that from the beginning.

Speaker 1 (01:50:16):
I would have understood it more if they just
said it was a human video.

Speaker 2 (01:50:24):
Okay, one one, one final thing to say about Alex
and his video Um, he was, as youknow, um.
He was, as you know, uh,accused of being like a new ager
, um right, and a um, awell-known prophet.

Speaker 1 (01:50:45):
Should I name him?
You know how I feel about him.

Speaker 2 (01:50:50):
I feel like if you're going to be foolish with your
news, you need to be known thatyou don't be doing your research
, okay, well, so I say the name,all right.
Well, alleged prophet, and Ilove this man.
Everybody knows I love this man.

(01:51:14):
On a personal prophetic note,he does give really good
personal prophetic words.
I really love this man.
He's got a beautiful heart, um,sweetheart baby I'm so sorry.
I love you, know, I love you.
Sorry, you just kind of jumpedto conclusions here.
Yes, I'm, I'm you know what.

(01:51:34):
Honestly, maybe he will stilldisagree with me um based, but I
I think that I'm I'm having adifferent understanding because
of the cultural um situationthat's happening here.
But jeremiah johnson did umpost some pictures from his
instagram which you know makessense, like.
He posted these pictures wherehe's um in a meditation pose and

(01:51:55):
next to all these, like Buddhastatues.
He posted a few other images,um, some of them may have been
work, images from his job, whichyou know it's.
It's a show and I feel like youcan't really hold his job
against him.
Um, we already know what hedoes, cause he did it and we all
saw the video, but theallegation was against his

(01:52:16):
spiritual life and that he wasdabbling in new age.
So he went on to say he was ona tour in I forget the country
that he mentioned, but he was ona tour in that country.
That was a picture he took.

Speaker 1 (01:52:30):
Bali.

Speaker 2 (01:52:31):
It wasn't Bali.
I think it was Bali, but ifpeople really care, you can
email us and I'll tell you, orleave a comment and I'll rewatch
the video, so that you don'thave to make the very easy move
of going on Alex Magala'sInstagram and watching the video
for yourself.
Or you can watch it and you canbe petty and then be like it

(01:52:53):
was actually this country.

Speaker 1 (01:52:55):
And they will.

Speaker 2 (01:52:56):
You can do either of those Any three, we're fine with
that.
So he's on a tour of thiscountry.
He takes a picture for, likethe vibes, I understood what he
was saying.
Like when in Rome it's you know.
He doesn't understand theimplication because, again,
pentecostal Christianity isweird.
A lot of Pentecostals wouldbelieve that if you go to a

(01:53:20):
place where there are Buddhastatues and you sit in a
meditation pose, that you willget demons.
I will say if that is yourconscience, then you will.
If that violates yourconscience, then do not go to
Buddha places and sit inmeditation poses.
That being said, when the earlychurch was early churching,
they lived in a place with likeidols everywhere and where they

(01:53:43):
went to spread the gospel wasidol central.
Like they went to, like theMetropolitan Museum of Art Greek
and Roman roman section.
They were around all thestatues of all the grecian butts
and they spread the gospelthere and they didn't get any
demons.
Granted, you might say, oh well, they were spreading the gospel

(01:54:04):
and that happened.
These people had to live andwork in these places too,
correct?
They had to post up anephesusesus known for its
witchcraft and they just had to.
When they weren't vibing withtheir church.
They were like I am ablacksmith, I am a messenger
service person.

(01:54:25):
I'm trying to think of ancientjobs and I just don't know them
very well.
I'm sorry, but you had to livein these places, you had to
sleep in these places, you hadto just be living your life with
the Grecian butts everywhere,and they were fine.
They didn't have a conscienceviolated because they didn't
have the theology that thechurch has now.
Oh, how that's been so great,don't you think?

(01:54:45):
It's been so great how we havegone into the future and we've
developed all these funtheologies that have oppressed
us.
Isn't that so fun when theearly church literally had to go
to places and actually rid themof the demonic presence, not by
causing a puke show, but byactually just displaying the
authority of Christ?
Notice, there are no puke showsin the Bible.

(01:55:08):
No spit takes.

Speaker 1 (01:55:09):
I'm just saying Hand me down, nonsense.

Speaker 2 (01:55:19):
Where did we get this ?
So, when it comes to a personwho's not familiar with our
American theology which again,was probably also an offshoot of
some hand-me-down stuff thatwas birthed after the Jesus
People Movement it's brought usa lot of good, but it's also
brought us a lot of nonsense aswell but he's not familiar with
the, the way that Pentecostalsbelieve that you're partnering
with certain things by sittingin a certain way.

Speaker 1 (01:55:42):
Right.

Speaker 2 (01:55:42):
There are people that actually believe it or not.
There are people that actuallyhave enough faith and trust in
God that they could sit in alittle pose next to whatever
statue they wanted.
Like they could sit next to aSatanist statue and sit in a
little pose and be like youcan't touch me because I belong
to Jesus Christ.

Speaker 1 (01:56:02):
Period.

Speaker 2 (01:56:04):
Now, some of y'all don't believe that, and if
that's the case, you need towork on that, because it's not
okay for you to walk aroundfeeling like if you do something
, if you sit a certain way, theenemy's got you okay, and that's
the faith that you're gonnareceive it can we like trust god
church she's like can we trustgod?

Speaker 1 (01:56:27):
that's what andrew womack said, that he's like I
don't get sick.
I.
He's like I don't get sickbecause that's not like.
My faith is not for me toreceive sickness, and so,
because that is the convictionhe lives by, he said you get a
head cold because you want ahead cold.
You just go oh, it's just theseason.

(01:56:47):
So I have a head cold, that'sthe season.
And he's like that's why youhave a head cold, you know.
And he's like that's why youhaven't had cold, you know.
And like somebody last night,where was?
Where was I?
Was I here?
Actually?
Oh yeah, like a small group.
I was leading a small group and, um, one of the girls has
allergies and we were like, ohyeah, you and me both and
whatever.
And then we were just talkingabout like yeah, jesus is gonna

(01:57:08):
heal our allergies because, likeallergies, we weren't meant to
be functioning with allergies,like this is not of God.
And so, like she even was, likewe were just like on the same
page.
She wasn't like wow, like shereally was, like no, amen.
And she's like I'm claimingthat healing for your allergies
too, like we should not behaving allergies.

Speaker 2 (01:57:26):
Oh, my God, that means you know what I'm going to
do.
I'm going to claim that for mylactose intolerance, and then
what I'm going to do is I'mgoing to keep ice cream at your
house and we're going to test itby me eating ice cream at your
house.
But I will come with butt wipes.

Speaker 1 (01:57:39):
Perfect.
Yeah, I just told that to myhusband this morning because he
was having some issues with milkand I was like this isn't your
inheritance, but I was like weneed to deal with this.

Speaker 2 (01:57:50):
Yep, we're going to pray, we're going to eat ice
cream and we're going to testthat this worked out, and we're
going to bring butt wipes justin case.
There, you go, but all right.
So back to Alex.
He was just posing on a tour tohim, an Orthodox Christian who

(01:58:10):
is not familiar with onePentecostal theology and two
American Christianity.
He's just posing because he'son a tour.
He's just doing that thing thatyou do with the Leaning Tower
of Pisa, where you're like, ah,I'm pushing it up.
That was what he was doing.
Okay, let's not make it morethan it is.
A lot of prophets are going totry to make it that, and a lot

(01:58:31):
of them are going to try to, butyou know what?
That, let me just tell you,that's your own conscience,
that's.
That's where your conscience gotviolated and I'm not going to
let that violate mine, becausethat sounds like a really low
level of faith.

Speaker 1 (01:58:41):
Honestly that poor man and I.
Now I see why people privatetheir accounts.

Speaker 2 (01:58:56):
Cause people are too to understand anything.
The other thing that Alex saidwas that he has a lot of friends
who are Buddhist monks and hesaw him like posing with them,
like oh, like friendship, andthen like arm wrestling oh,
that's cute.
Which, by the way, if you arefriends with anybody who is that
type of like mystic, catholicor an international kind of
Christian, you find that theylove to be friends with other

(01:59:18):
like mystics from otherreligions, and I don't know if
that's like for some people.
I think it probably mixes somethings in their spirituality.
That's bad, but I think forother people it's almost like an
interesting way to see howother people see the world, and

(01:59:39):
I think that's more his heart.
Is he confused?
Am I going to say Alex hasgreat theology?
You just don't know.
I'm not going to tell you thatAlex has great theology.
Alex probably doesn't eventhink too much about being
christian in the first place.
He's.
It's orthodox.
Christianity is a lot oftradition, but what I am saying
is that his, his heart is thathe's an artist, he's a performer

(02:00:02):
and, um, they often have a lotin common with the types of
people that become monks andmystics, and I can see why he's
friends with that type of personand I don't think that we
should condemn him for thateither.
If the Lord ever convicts himlike, hey, this person is

(02:00:24):
confusing you and your walk withme.
That's one thing.
But, alex, and I think there'sa reason why John did not
apologize more specifically withhim, because he's really not so
much at fault.
He's really just doing his job.

(02:00:44):
It's really simple.

Speaker 1 (02:00:46):
Yeah, I mean, he's unapologetic, like you know, I
don't know I feel bad.
I feel bad for just that wholesituation that he was roped in
and he's like what is with youAmerican Christians, what is
with you guys?
I was just doing a performanceand a drama, and then again

(02:01:07):
social media and division, and Ilove that Pastor John also was
like, if for the sole reasonthat this caused division, I
apologize, like I kind of lovethat he did that, because
obviously the whole point wasn'tto be divisive.
That's not why he, you know,had this man come and he wasn't
trying to be like.
So many churches, so manyworship leaders, so many worship

(02:01:30):
teams, so many Christiancontent creators want to be like
risque, like they want to be soedgy, like that.
They want to do something thatpushes the envelope, like and.
And then they end up like goingtoo far off the deep end Right,
and in some of them they theyjust jump off of a cliff and
that's not like for us, like Ipromise you, however, and that's

(02:01:51):
not like for us.
Like I promise you, however,you ended up here.
We pray that you stay as longas you would love to the door.
We have an open door policywith this podcast.
But I promise you we will neverlike we're not here to be edgy,
we're not here to be risque, wedon't say things, push
envelopes so that you could belike, oh snap, like we are just

(02:02:11):
being us, so that you could belike, oh snap, we are just being
us.
But for the sake of thosepeople I don't think Pastor John
was trying to be that guy.

Speaker 2 (02:02:27):
I think he genuinely was like first of all, this man
had to probably have been bookedyears in advance.
Yeah, and it was expensive.
Yeah and it was expensive.
So this was, this was somethingthat was, was thought through
in a way that, like there, therewas obviously, like, so much
innocence behind the booking.

Speaker 1 (02:02:45):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (02:02:46):
Like sports swallowing.
That's so bad-ass Right, wow,but the dudes will love that.
That's how men sound.
That's how you guys soundthat's how evangelical men sound
.
That's how they sound that's myimpression with it um, yeah, I
think they just thought it wascool and showy.

(02:03:07):
So, um, there is a little bitmore of an update, um, from john
because, um, mark, afteraccusing his other son, brandon
Lindell, who's also a pastor atJames River, of a list of dark
sins, and said something evilwas at work at James River
church, so, at this point, marky, that that that was.

Speaker 1 (02:03:30):
I don't know, I can't defend you there.

Speaker 2 (02:03:33):
I don't.
I don't know about that, mark.
If you saw something I don'tknow, I can't defend you there.
I don't know about that, mark.
If you saw something, I feelthe way you approached that was
just not it, sis.
Okay.
So Mark has a comment, becausehe's like threatening to cut
ties.
John is threatening to cut tieswith Mark at this point.
He says what Mark has done atthis point was so egregious

(02:03:55):
attempting to tear down theleader of the church, attempting
to create friction betweenbrothers, attempting to create
discord between father and a son.
It seems demonic to me andhonestly makes me very, very
concerned about mark linden.
Lindell said that he hasfollowed Matthew 18, 18, 15,
which sets those guidelines aswe discussed, and and he's using

(02:04:20):
that kind of in reference tothe way he is he's speaking to
Mark through the surface serviceright now and he he's this is
his quote If all, if that fails,seek mediation.
If that fails, to tell it tothe church.
And if they refuse to listen tothe church, treat them as you
would, a pagan or a taxcollector.
So he was directly quoting that, that verse within this service
.
Um, during the service, lindellsaid that he sought the

(02:04:43):
assistance of jimmy evans, apastor and co-founder of
marriage today and mediatingwith driscoll very responsible,
by the way I love that if hedoesn't listen to the rebuke of
tonight.
Any believer should not haveanything to do with Mark
Driscoll.
Lindell said I get absolutelyno joy or delight in doing this
to someone who I've called afriend.
Mark, if you're listening tothis message, we love you and
it's with a heavy heart we arecalling you to repent.

(02:05:04):
Lindell also said that thosewho spread the disinformation
that they reconciled shouldrepent and share the correct
information with their followersas well.
So these are the list of thingsthat John wants Mark to repent
for One, maligning Magala, whoLindell said was a born-again
Christian, though Magala hasclarified that he's Orthodox,

(02:05:25):
was baptized as a baby.
Two, attempting to sow disunityin James River Church.
Three, making false andslanderous accusations against
Brandon Lindell for trying tocreate division in the Lindell
family.
And five, trying to destroyJames River church by attacking
its leadership.
So that is the final newsupdate, as up to date as I know,

(02:05:48):
that is happening with thiswhole situation.
It sounds like, to my ear and tothe best of my knowledge, that
John is dealing with this veryresponsibly, and I think he also
repented about booking Alex tothe level of which he should,
which was his heart was not tobring confusion or violate

(02:06:13):
anyone's conscience.
Conscience was really just awhoa this word swallowing is
cool Sort of like we got to finda way to top the monster trucks
we had last year kind ofmentality.
And so I think I don't think,just given that he was ignorant
to how people would take it, Ithink he repented to the level
that was necessary, and you know, prophets are known for being a

(02:06:38):
bit dramatic, so just hopingthat one that if Mark said
something accusatory to John'sson, that it actually had some
merit, even if it was obviouslydone in a dishonoring way, and
that, if I think it too like itsounds, like the way he's

(02:07:06):
talking to the church and tothese people is like he is
coming to rebuke them, like anold Testament prophet, like if
this is not good, it needs to bedestroyed, which is like a very
old testament mentality, versussay, hey, like there are things
that are off and they need tobe realigned and fixed, because
I think, overall those types ofwords of like okay, like

(02:07:31):
something went wrong, tear itdown, destroy it, and so then
you build something new andthat's you know.
I kind of think that's basicallywhat's happening with the um,
ihop, kansas city, and now upperrooms.
Like now it's our turn becauseyour ihop has been canceled,
it's destroyed.
Rather than actually wait aminute, do we believe in

(02:07:51):
redemption?

Speaker 1 (02:07:52):
Wow, the thought.
What about?
Oh, I got an R wordReconciliation.

Speaker 2 (02:07:59):
Whoa.
Do we believe that people whohave made mistakes after
receiving Christ have hope toactually be made new and healed
and restored?

Speaker 1 (02:08:12):
Oh my gosh, I have a new word for you that you
wouldn't have to find in aStrong's Tell me.
It's called grace no, graceupon grace upon grace.

Speaker 2 (02:08:25):
Not Karis.

Speaker 1 (02:08:27):
The.

Speaker 2 (02:08:27):
Karis In the Greece, in the Greek, in the Greek.
Wow, what a revolutionarythought and idea.

Speaker 1 (02:08:35):
Here's a revelation for you Grace, and listen.
His grace makes it easy.
Grace is like the greasy rideupon.
People are like greasy grace,hyper grace.
If you think grace is too hyper, then you don't understand
grace it is.
By grace you wake up every day.

(02:08:56):
It is grace that you draw abreath.
It is grace that some of y'allstill have positions in ministry
.

Speaker 2 (02:09:07):
And I think as well, there's been a lot more harm
than good that comes fromscrapping something entirely
when maybe the lord actually didhave some hope and redemption
for it.
We can't let every lou angleword destroy every good ministry
that exists.
Sorry, papa lou screaming um,yes and amen.

Speaker 1 (02:09:32):
Look Sorry, papa Lou Screaming yes and amen.

Speaker 2 (02:09:37):
Look, if he never told Kansas City to stop doing
the one thing conference, Idon't think any of this would
have happened.
Because, okay, just my opinion.
Do we know?
If that was him, you know what?
Actually, I don't know if thatwas his word, I do.
I'm curious.
Was?

Speaker 1 (02:09:52):
it somebody else's word?
But if that was his word, I do.
I'm curious, was it somebody?

Speaker 2 (02:09:54):
else's word, but I'm going to burn the prophet anyway
.

Speaker 1 (02:09:57):
I'm screaming.

Speaker 2 (02:09:59):
But let me just say I personally think it might not
have been Lou.
I'm so sorry Lou.
I know of another.
You know what was was pinnedthat we'll deal with you later
when we talk about your.
I will say there was a wordthere was a profit next week, so
I'm going to give you a break.

Speaker 1 (02:10:15):
Right, all right, we got if you're following Lou.

Speaker 2 (02:10:18):
He is fasting next week.
That starts it that anotherweek of fasting every month for
Israel until the war is over.
So Amen, put away your forkthese spoons if you're following
him, because next week you arenot eating but screaming.
I think that when it comes toKansas City and them canceling

(02:10:38):
one thing, I personally thinkthat it's like what happened to
David when he was on the rooftopI in Bathsheba at the time when
kings were supposed to be atwar Correct, he was chilling
during the wartime.
He should have been out therewarring, but instead he he was
looking at Bathsheba Is thatwhat happened at Kansas city, I
mean.

(02:10:58):
I'm not saying the allegationsare true, because we we really
still don't know if theallegations are true.
But what I will say is, ify'all were at the one thing
conference, would you have timeto be making accusations or
getting people who are on yourteam who are problematic?
Would they have had time to sowall this discord?
Would there have been time andspace for anything wrong to

(02:11:22):
happen, whether it be peopleattacking mike or mike actually
doing something?
Because again, we don't know.
We don't know you should havebeen a war at the one thing
conference.
I.

Speaker 1 (02:11:32):
I mean Harvey Weinstein himself, has been let
off of his charges for now.
Obviously, there's going to bea retrial.
There's going to be a retrial.
However, he, his case, gotdismissed based off of bias,
like there was some evidencethat they used, that they were
just like we kind of looked atthis evidence very biasly.

(02:11:54):
There's a quote.
I've heard this quote a lotbecause you know I'm just
watching some Law and Order.
But justice is blind, whichmeans that there is neither Jew
nor Gentile, man or woman, youknow, slave nor free, black or
white when it comes to justice.
And so, with Harvey Weinstein,everybody's upset and we know

(02:12:17):
that he's a shady old man.
But what I'm saying is that youneed to let justice play out.
We don't know if all theseallegations I don't give a rip,
who gets interviewed on YouTube,I don't give a rip who the
Roy's report reports on, wedon't know.
I want to hear from this manhimself, which he doesn't owe

(02:12:40):
anybody anything.
And if I don't know whathappened in Kansas City, if I
don't get to know that on thisside of heaven, guess what, I'm
asleep good tonight.
Side of heaven, guess what,i'ma sleep good tonight i'ma

(02:13:03):
sleep really good and i'ma beokay.

Speaker 2 (02:13:04):
And guess what?

Speaker 1 (02:13:04):
you will too, oh man but you brought an excellent
point about david Bathshebabeing at the wrong place at the
wrong time, doing the wrongthing.
Okay, the wrong thing andcorrelating that to now.
We know David was a man afterhis own heart.

(02:13:25):
David was a man of goodintentions.
David was a mighty king, rightthat now his sin with Bathsheba
does not throw all of his worksout the window.
It's okay for y'all to be likeI want to be like David, right?
Like everyone wants to be likeDavid until, like, then the
hardship happens and then, likeyou know what I mean, now no one

(02:13:47):
wants to be King David, and soif you want to be David, commit,
commit to the role.
And so it's very strange howyou guys are all of a sudden
wanting to backpedal.
Hello, and the idea with thehouse of prayer, like, just
think about it for one second,okay, take your mind, like, tell

(02:14:11):
your brain to shut up.
My spiritual dad likes to saytell your mind to shut up for a
second In this year 2024, theyear of our Lord, when we have
the messiest election, okay themessiest election since the

(02:14:31):
beginning of this country hasbeen established.
The messiest, okay, and I meanthat was even before the
election.
There was like an electionaround the time where they like
didn't like Republicans andDemocrats literally beat the
crap out of each other untilthey died.
I have to find out.
There was like actually anelection where they like
literally murdered each other.

Speaker 2 (02:14:51):
Wow, what was that?

Speaker 1 (02:14:53):
actually an election where they like literally
murdered each other.
Wow, what was their hands?
Bare hands.
Okay, american history is crazy.
I think this election is evencrazier.
Um, I will, I'll bring areference next time you record,
but I'll tell you after ourrecording, jamie, um, okay, so
this is the craziest election.
Also, we are in the brink ofall of these countries popping
off, being like there can onlybe one, and that that that

(02:15:19):
whatever country is going to be,whether it's Russia, china,
whoever, have you right, thesecountries are like wanting to be
world domination invaders in.
Um, world domination invadersin.
Wouldn't that be a good time togo to the house of the Lord?

(02:15:40):
Wouldn't that be a good time toset up some houses of prayer?
But instead we're looking forthe houses of prayer to tear
down and y'all are letting ithappen.
So you threw the baby out withthe bath water because you're
like oh, there was one bad egg.
Now I have different opinions,but whatever, but from the one

(02:16:03):
bad egg, you're like everybody,everybody, let's just completely
dismantle kansas city.
Let's start a new thing, eventhough you're to have the same
bones.
Okay, I'm saying that you'regoing to have the same bones,
but you think you're doingsomething new.
Whatever have you, whateverhelps you sleep at night.
So, um, now you're like let'sdismantle kansas city.
So, boom, house of prayer gone.

(02:16:25):
Um, now more than ever we needpeople of prayer.
Now more than ever we needpeople of prayer.
Now more than ever we needintercession.
And now we're all distracted.
Do you think these haphazard,lukewarm Christians care about
that?
No, they don't.
They just care about, like well, I don't feel validated because

(02:16:46):
something happened between meand my dad when I was six, and
now I want somebody else to payfor it.
That's why you're so caught upin this business.
It has nothing to do with you.
It should have stayed in thehouse, it should have been dealt
with in the house and it shouldhave been judged by the house.
Also, the Corey Russells of theworld I don't care, I'm not.
I don't feel bad saying hisname.

(02:17:06):
The Allen Hoods I don't feelbad saying your name.
You guys who all think you'regetting away unscathed because
you distanced yourself from thehouse of prayer as far as Kansas
City I know a lot of you guysare still serving the church
Just because you weren't therewhen Bickle got accused, when

(02:17:30):
the allegations started sticking, does not mean you're coming
off without the smell of smokeon you because, as I said with
carl lentz when the things ofcarl lentz came out, carl lentz
did not become carl lentzovernight.
So whether or not you were awareof Bickle and that could be one

(02:17:53):
the reason you left you'restill held accountable because
you could have been dealing withit.
Then you could have called itout before you left.
You could have dealt with it sothat you can leave, or you
could have left it in the handsof somebody who will deal with
it.
But you left right.
So, from a distance, y'all arelike I knew this was going to
happen.
Why didn't you say anything?

(02:18:15):
Why didn't you shepherd?
Why didn't you shepherd yourflock?
Why didn't you protect thesheep?
Allen Hood's the same way.
Now I do have a friend who's apastor in Florida who said he
was at an event with Allen Hoodand on the stage he was like I
also repent for my involvementwith Kansas City because I was
also there when Mike was doingthe shady stuff.

(02:18:36):
Now I said that to you, jamie,months ago when Alan Hood did
his little tour, kind of likeBen Shapiro after Candace left,
and Alan Hood did his littletour and was on everybody's
little podcast and YouTubechannel.
He was like, oh yeah, mike, hejust was uncontrollable, he was
out of hand.
So you were doing all thatstuff.
But I was like, but you wereMike Bickle's right hand man.

(02:18:58):
I know because I was listeningto the house of prayer circa
2005, 2008.
I was, I was on the house ofprayer.
You could ask my collegeroommate I used to have the
house of prayer streams on mylaptop nonstop.
I would leave, house of Prayerwas on, I would come back to my
room.
House of Prayer was on mylaptop and I know Alan Hood
because I remember turning offmy computer whenever he spoke.

(02:19:20):
I was just not interested inAlan Hood, so I know he was
there.
So you were around when some ofthis craziness was happening.
Where were you, man of God, tospeak up and to say anything?
Instead, you're like at leastit wasn't me.
So all of you dog water, okay.
So now we're in this positionwhere you guys are like, oh good

(02:19:44):
, at least it won't be calledKansas City anymore.
Who cares what it's called?
Who cares?
It's going to have the sameinfrastructure, the same bones's
gonna have the sameinfrastructure, the same bones,
some of the same staff.
You just won't know and the wayyou guys are tearing each other
down.
I told you earlier, uh, lastweek, jamie, that they're even
after jeremy riddle becausethey're just like that noah kid

(02:20:04):
is like resurfacing in the newsand they're after jeremy riddle
and some of jeremy riddle's likeappearances have been canceled
because this, this kid ispainting a hum up in a bad light
and this was my issue with theme too.
I guarantee you there will be alot less me too allegations.
If, when the allegations didn'tstick, there would be a counter

(02:20:25):
suit.
If, if the women who cried wolfstarted getting sued for crying
wolf, there will be a lot lesswomen who cried wolf started
getting sued for crying wolf.
There will be a lot less womenwho can come forward.
Am I saying that women shouldnever say anything?
Obviously, that's not what I'msaying.
It will be intellectually lazyfor you to assume what I'm
saying.

(02:20:45):
Listen to what I'm saying Forthe women who were crying wolf,
because they are out there.
Some of them have even beenproven, even the Trevor Bauer, I
think I did.
I sent you that video about thebaseball player who the two
women who slept with him bothtry to say that he was abusive,
beat him One thought.
One said she was pregnant.
Yeah, so this MLB player, theytwo separate women, they weren't

(02:21:09):
friends.
At least I don't think theyslept with this MLB player who
they alleged had like reallyrough sex.
Beat the crap out of him, beatthe crap out of them.
And, um, you know, this girl waslike I got a black eye, decided
anything.
The other girl was like I gotpregnant but then I had an
abortion because he made me allthis stuff.
They tried to extort him formoney and he was like hell, no.

(02:21:31):
So they went public and waslike this is what Trevor Bauer
did to me.
He got fired from an MLB.
He got fired from his team,could not get rehired, and
because they were like we got tobelieve all women.
And now the women are gettingcountersued.
Now the one woman, her day incourt has not happened yet, but
the other one got served herpapers and they're public and so

(02:21:54):
, like the girls who are cryingwolf are starting to get counter
sued.
And what's that?
finally finally, you know whatI'm saying, I love it.
So like, if it happens in thechurch, I guarantee you a lot
less people like y'all want tostart playing the spiritual
abuse game.
Like, oh my God, like he didn'tpick me and I was spiritually

(02:22:15):
abusive.
And so like, if you startplaying that game I'm not saying
like, take even Jeremy Riddleout of the equation.
Let's say it was Lester Young.
I don't even know where thatname came from, but Lester Young
, I'm making up a name.
Let's say somebody comes andsays like hey, you know a public

(02:22:35):
defamation, right, you're goingaround and you know the body of
the Christ is stupid and they,they repost anything.
And so like Lester Young's like, hey, this is what happened to
me, I was under this leader andhe did all these things.
The church starts spreadingthis, this fake news, defamation
happens, guy loses hisfollowing, loses his church,
loses his ministry, all thatstuff.

(02:22:57):
What's to happen to that guythat Lester Young falsely
accused?
Y'all need to start gettingsued.
You need to start.
I don't care, if you don't wantto play by the rules of the
Bible, then you don't have towin by the Bible.
You know what I mean Becauseyou're like oh, you can't bring
me to court.
Why?
Why can't I bring you to court?
Actually, technically, we canbring you to court, um,

(02:23:20):
according to the word.
So.
But I'm saying is, like you,people think that you're
untouched because you want toput out a bad tweet.
I see a day where that's nolonger going to stick, um, and
people are going to stop doingit.
And so with Mike Bickle?
Am I saying that's whathappened with Mike Bickle?
No, what I'm saying is, if wedon't know the whole truth, it
is not worth spreading half thetruth.

(02:23:42):
That Roy's report, julie Roy's,whatever.
I'm telling you, if I had halfthe time that she had to spread
the smut that she does, god, tospread the smut that she does, I
would have a Pulitzer.
I would have a Pulitzer Becausethis woman is, she is quite a

(02:24:03):
piece of work and she is at theroot of every Christian tabloid.
Like she, you know, she evenprides herself in being the
first one who reported on theMark Driscoll thing.
She was like I broke that storyfirst.
Of course you did.
That's why the truth wasn'ttrue.

(02:24:23):
That's why it was bad newsbecause you reported it first.
But anyway, all I have to say isthat I'm seeing it from the
outside looking in, that, um,it's like I'm seeing it from the
outside looking in and y'allhave people who just run their
mouths and who just want to beheard and people are starting to
pay for it.
Ie, somebody like jeremy riddleto where, like the these people

(02:24:45):
like jeremy riddle's not gonnalike turn on his camera maybe, I
mean, he could shock me, butlike he's not ever, ever gonna
just turn on his camera, likenoah did, and just record and be
like hello, I'm Jeremy Riddleand I'm going to tell you what
really happened.
You know, like Mike Bickle'snot going to do that.
Like these people, you arelucky, you're playing with
demons and you're getting burnedbecause it's costing you your

(02:25:08):
soul.
It is costing you your soul.
You may think that you'regetting retribution because
you're on the face of peoplelike YouTube's, like one of the
girls who was like an allegedvictim, like her video blew up
on YouTube because she'd beeninterviewed by some couple who
hates Kansas City, and we see it.
All that stuff's out there andit's crazy because the Internet

(02:25:29):
is forever.
The internet is forever, sojust remember that, because
that's also a lesson that Amberheard learned during her lawsuit
.
And my last point, which is areally quick point you mentioned
, like the houses of prayer andwhat happened with Kansas City
and then, like, after KansasCity happened, like Upper Room's
, like put me in, coach, this islike a opportunity for houses

(02:25:50):
of prayer, like upper room notlimited to, but like upper room
to start taking, doing a surveyof their people and being like,
hey, are we okay?
Like, are we good?
Do you need a break?
Do you have anything to confess?
Like, tell us now, because wedon't need this mess, because

(02:26:12):
the ultimate goal is todismantle the body of Christ.
It's a demand dismantle thehouse of prayer.
What are we if we don't have ahouse of prayer?
What are we if we're notpraying people right?
So you guys want to like, tellus, like, oh, the solution to
this election is like, you know,don't focus on who's in the
white house, but who's on thethrone.
Y'all did that.

(02:26:33):
It didn't work for you.

Speaker 2 (02:26:37):
It really did not.
It's not working for the worldeither.
There are people who aresuffering because of our
administration.
They cannot afford things.
They are losing their jobs.
Do you not care about them?

Speaker 1 (02:26:49):
You would have to, and I think it's also you know
it's.
It's theologically manipulativeto be like, oh, you guys care
more about what's in the who'sin the White House than who's on
the throne.
That's not true, but we do knowthat we have a God given
responsibility to not only voteVoting is limited to, but the

(02:27:09):
awareness to be aware to, todisciple our kids, to raise them
, raise them up in a way thatthey should go to have
conversations, to shepherd theamount of people who did not
shepherd in 2020.
You know how you shepherded?
By succumbing to the worstvirus that was ever known to man
, that was here long before 2020, but it was the man-pleasing

(02:27:33):
spirit that told you thatputting up a black screen on
your social media would pacify acommunity.
It would pacify a community.
That's how you shepherded,right?
That's how you cared more aboutwho was on the throne than who
was in the White House byputting up a black square.
And so it has not worked foryou and it's manipulative for

(02:27:55):
you, for us to, for us to, to,to disciple a generation by
telling them um, our God givenresponsibility is, is, is not to
know who's in the white house.
We should know who's in thewhite house.
We should know their policies,we should know the party, we
should know the person.
Okay, all of that matters.
God is on the throne.

(02:28:16):
He's always going to be on thethrone.
He cannot be dethroned.
Okay, it's two plus two isalways going to equal four.
No matter what they teach youat college, it's like it's
always going to equal four.
God is on the throne and we getto co-labor as co-heirs with
Christ seated in heavenly places.
And it's for something, it'sunto something.

(02:28:39):
And so have the conversations,shepherd your people, lead,
disciple, encourage, exhort allthe things, but don't be
ignorant.
Ignorance has not served youwell.
Anyway, yeah, I don't know if Ifinished my thought about upper
room, but a lot of the housesof prayer.
You just you need to surveyyour people.

(02:29:01):
Houses of prayer, not limitedto houses of prayer, but other
churches, like I know, jesusImage has that beautiful.
Was it Bethany?
House of Bethany?
Oh, yes, yeah, they have their,have their beautiful community
and, like you, don't want what'shappening in Kansas City to
take you by surprise like, ohcrap.
Like you know, even if it'speople who have had something

(02:29:23):
like, confess, confess in yourcommunity, where it's safe,
within your own people, whereit's safe and it's possible, it
it is possible, and thebeautiful thing about grace is
that we have the ability to useit and that it's available to us
.
He's rich in mercy, it says inEphesians 2.
God, who loves us so lavishlythat he's rich in mercy.

(02:29:45):
Right, but don't allow anotherhouse to judge yours.
And that's where we've beenrunning into this mistake and
that's why this has been somessy.
We've been allowing otherhouses to judge ours.
Who has the right to judge thepeople of God, these
uncircumcised Philistines?
Who?

(02:30:06):
Who has the right to judge thehouse of God?
We are his body, he's the headof us.
We don't belong, we're notconnected to anyone else, and so
y'all need to figure it out,you messy, messy.
Y'all need to figure it out.
But, these churches.

(02:30:27):
Get ahead of it.
Get ahead of it.
Apply that John 21 to peoplewho like, let them make their
mistake, but restore them backinto their dignity, into their
role.
If Jesus himself can go toPeter, jesus himself, who was
denied by one of his like youeven say like best friends, one
of his good friends, someone hewas under, one of his people

(02:30:48):
denied, denied, knowing he woulddeny him, knowing that even
Peter even gave up, gave up whathe was doing.
He told Peter I'm going tobuild my church upon this rock
being Peter.
And Peter knows he had thecharge.
And he still went back tofishing and Jesus met him where
he was and restored him backinto ministry.

(02:31:09):
Where would Peter be if henever had that conversation with
Jesus?
Where would he be, you guys?

Speaker 2 (02:31:19):
called him the unlikely disciple.
We didn't.
That's not in the bible, and Ithink as well.
People give peter a lot of crapfor this, but they will give
him so much crap for drowning inthe in the sea, when he walked
on water, and a lot of pastorslike to.
They'll bring this up andthey'll be like, well, peter was

(02:31:40):
the only one who walked onwater.
The other thing I want to sayis we actually don't know how
long he walked until he startedto drown, because, keep in mind,
jesus was far away enough fromthe boat that they did not
recognize him.
They were like that's a ghost,and so there's some distance.

(02:32:02):
Okay, this may not have been acouple of steps.
The other thing is that,because the sea of galilee is in
a valley, the way the windwhips with all the mountains
around, those waves can get aslike really high, like they can
be taller than you, okay, solet's just have some perspective
.
This is not like your oceanstorms that you've seen.

(02:32:24):
This is human height and higherwaves, and he's walking and
he's walking through them.
And again, we don't know howmany steps he took.
I think he took more steps thanwe think he did.
Did he get halfway there, did heget three quarters of the way
to Jesus?
He may have gotten threequarters of the way, maybe even,

(02:32:46):
maybe more, but he had enoughfaith to start the journey and
to maintain it for a little bit.
And so he is.
He's got a lot of boldness thata lot of the other disciples
they either didn't have ordidn't display, and like

(02:33:07):
boldness will, like when you putyourself out there, your
mistakes will be seen.
Like when you put yourself outthere, your mistakes will be
seen when you are.
When there are people that,like they, seemingly don't make
mistakes, usually it's becausethey're not taking the risks.
So people people who, who justkind of chill in the backseat
like nobody's going to be, likeoh, did you see that mistake?

(02:33:28):
Of course you didn't see thatmistake.
Either they didn't take therisk or they made a mistake.
But nobody saw it.

Speaker 1 (02:33:34):
Right Ooh.

Speaker 2 (02:33:36):
There are a lot of shy people out there making a
lot of mistakes, and they'redoing it behind the scenes, in
secret, courageous, and he putshimself out there in a really
risky way, and so he also putshimself in a place where his

(02:33:58):
mistakes can be viewed.
I bet that there are just asmany mistakes that John made,
that James made, thatBartholomew made, that Thaddeus
made, that Philip made, but theydidn't get the screen time
because they didn't make theboldest moves.
And you know what y'all?

(02:34:18):
y'all will give peter bs over alot of things, but keep in mind,
we know next to nothing about alot of these disciples
bartholomew, philip play thesame like I don't know a thing
about them because they andagain, they might have had just
as many mistakes, if not more,than peter, but they also didn't

(02:34:40):
have as many cool stories thatwere worth writing down.
Putting the bible in the firstplace, right, peter got screen
time they only had so much room,right, that's what john said.
John was like kenny there's notenough books in the world to
contain all the things thathappened, like miracles upon
miracles exactly and, and Ithink too like, as far as
stories involving John, Iactually feel like I can't think

(02:35:02):
of many stories involving Johnunless he wrote them himself.
He's like.
Fyi, I was faster when we, whenwe got to the grave, it was me
who got there first.
Um, just so you know jesusloved me.
I was the one he loved and weknow that because john wrote it
but, like other people wroteabout peter, peter, peter.

(02:35:24):
Obviously his secretary markwas writing down.
So yeah, you know he had a book, that but but he was kind of
low-key embarrassed about someof his stuff.
He's like one of the disciplesdid this and the others were and
John was like it was Peter.

Speaker 1 (02:35:36):
It was Peter.

Speaker 2 (02:35:37):
Peter did it.
But let me tell you, you didn'thave a story to write unless
Peter did some stuff.
And all of the disciples, theywrote about what Peter did
because he did some stuff.

Speaker 1 (02:35:49):
Because they were like he gonna be messy.
But he did some stuff.
Because they were like he gonnabe messy, but he was messy for
the lord and ironically enough Imean this is a crazy sentence
to put together, but ironicallyenough he was messy for his
glory yes he was messy for thelord's glory.
And so, um, peter got re, youknow, reinitiated into ministry,

(02:36:12):
re-initiated to be a ministerof the gospel, to be a servant
of the gospel.
Jesus was like, hey, get backup again.
But I will say that that's whatJesus did as the good shepherd.
The good shepherd everybody'slike.
Well, he'll leave the one forthe 99.
Not only that, but he'll nursethe one until it's able.

(02:36:33):
Well, he'll leave the one forthe 99.
Not only that, but he'll nursethe one until it's able to enter
back into the flock.
It's not about like, just, I'mgonna leave the one for the 99.
There's a purpose, but also thehealth of that one mattered.
And so, to jesus, it was about,like, pursuing peter so that he
knew that's what shepherds do.

(02:36:55):
And that's why I'm like, in atime I understand, I'm not even
saying shepherds need to haveall the answer, but you have to
gather your flock, your flockneeds to be protected, your
flock needs to be fed, fed, youneed to feed your flock.
Jesus said to Petereter feed mysheep, feed them and feed them,

(02:37:15):
not beat them.
A lot of people are beatingsheep.
That's why they're making crazynoises yapping, yapping upon
yapping, because some of y'allbeat your sheep too much and so,
like you need to protect, youneed to serve, you need to love,
you need to cultivate, you needto direct shepherds, direct the
rod and the staff.

(02:37:35):
They comfort me, right, andthese shepherds, like you're
just, you're leaving, like um,when did jesus said that you,
y'all, were acting like a, aflock with no shepherd?
I'd have to look for that verse, but he was was like you guys
are crazy, You're acting like aflock with no shepherd.

(02:37:57):
And that's where we were, wewere, we were well, some of us,
not all of us, but that's wherethe church was.
Like people were acting likeyou had no shepherd and some of
you didn't.
In terms of a pastor who wassupposed to speak up, it was
like the avatar.
When the world needed him most,he just disappeared.
And so, like, I understand thecomplication, but this is your

(02:38:20):
chance to have at it again.
Go and get yourself into acommunity where you can be
shepherded, shepherded and lovedand fed, nourished Maybe
somebody who even does your hairand fed, nourished Maybe
somebody who even does your hair, you know, like a good shepherd
to give you a good haircut, butall that to say is that you
know there's actually, there'ssupposed to be joy in the house

(02:38:41):
of prayer.
Also, by the way, that's inIsaiah.
When I pray for houses of prayer, I usually pray that they
receive joy.
I'll bring that verse up later,like I'll bring it up at
another time, the reference,because I know some of y'all
fact check me.
It's okay, I love it, bring theheat.
But sometimes, when I sometimesI'll go.
I don't want to say thatbecause then people will be

(02:39:02):
looking for me, but I'm justsaying sometimes I'll be going
to a certain meeting where theylet people release certain words
at a certain house of prayerand that what I would be.
I always read it from the word.
Sometimes I bring a differenttranslation, but let's let joy
be in the house of prayer.
And maybe some of y'all weren'tprotected because you didn't

(02:39:23):
have that oil.
You needed the oil of joy, thatoil of gladness.
And then, like you started offthe whole podcast.
It is our strength, don't becaught slipping, don't be caught
weak.
It is your strength.
And so some of you guys start,start doing a little, start

(02:39:45):
taking a little inventory, takean inventory of your people.
Hey, are we okay?
Anybody need to talk about it.
It, danny Silk was the best attalking about reestablishing
leaders back into ministry.
It's like when a leader falls,you don't take them out back and
put them out of their miserylike a wounded sheep.
I believe that's in a cultureof love.

(02:40:05):
He talks about this story abouttwo leaders who made a mistake
and he was like what are wegoing to do?
But their goal was always tonurse the sheep back into the
sheepfold and a lot of you guysjust want to put the sheeps out
of their misery.
I mean, we need to talk alittle bit quickly, quickly,
maybe we'll do quickly the nextsegment about witches.

(02:40:30):
That's amazing.
Um, oh, we're gonna talk aboutwhich is jamie Amazing Ooh we're

(02:40:54):
going to talk about witches,jamie.

Speaker 2 (02:40:55):
Enlighten us Well, since they are so insecure that
they need constant attention andvalidation.
Yes, ah, of our listeners areaware that she, who shall not be
named, has recently come outwith an album and the lyrics are

(02:41:17):
pretty explicit that she isactually practicing witchcraft.
Some people who are delulu aregoing to make this out to be art
, but I'm telling you right nowthat girl is not creative enough
to make something out ofnothing art.
But I'm telling you right nowthat girl is not creative enough
to make something out ofnothing, because if that were
the case, she would not havebeen writing about her exes all

(02:41:40):
this time and we would not havebeen able to track all of those
to each ex.
So obviously she's not thatshe's not making stuff up when
she writes.
She's not one of those writersthat's really poetic and makes
up a wild story.
Maybe the best example I canthink of right now is Sunny Came
Home, which is a song based ona painting of a woman with a

(02:42:08):
burning house behind her, andit's literally the story that
the artist made based on uh, herinferring what happened with
this woman and the burning housebehind her.
Taylor is not this artist.
Taylor is not tracy chapmanriding fast car.
Okay, she is writing directlyabout her experiences.

(02:42:31):
From the day she started, shewas like drew, you're the reason
for the teardrops on my guitar.
Okay, she told us his name.
It wasn't very creative.
We found out who Drew was.
I think it was even literallyhis name.
Every single song to a T hasbeen.

Speaker 1 (02:42:46):
That's wild.

Speaker 2 (02:42:48):
This is about this X.
This is exactly what happened.
We can tell, we know who Kingof my heart is about.
We know whose style is about.
We know who all these songs isabout you you don't even have to
know.
You can literally just read theheadlines from us weekly, not
even read the articles and heara taylor swift song once and
know which x it's about so whois uh, dear john, about?

(02:43:12):
oh, let me tell you, it is thedelulu idea that taylor swift
had that her and john were evera thing.
Her and john, they were never athing.

Speaker 1 (02:43:24):
I've had fights about this more than I care to
mention, but, um, I will saythat there was actually one time
I was playing a game withfriends and it was teams against
each other and one of thecategories was list uh, taylor's
exes and we, like this teamversus this team, and I was on

(02:43:48):
the other team and we lost byone point.
And you want to know what theone x they mentioned that the
team won by it was john mayer.
And I was like, wait a minute,that he, he wasn't an x.
And they're like, yeah, he wasan x, like that at all.
Like, oh, we won, we won.
And I was like, but he, he, hewasn't an x.
Like, actually was like that'snot factual, so anyway, it's.

(02:44:13):
It was kind of crazy, like, andthen, like you know, the team
drowned me up because they'rejust like well, we won anyway.
And I'm like well, we lost byone game, which we lost by one
point, by a lie, but anyway, wow, I'm so sorry that you didn't
get your justice there.

Speaker 2 (02:44:27):
I'm gonna call those people to repentance right now
because john and taylor neverwere a thing, never dated.
Uh, they wrote together andthat's really hard and he never
did as far as it went, so um.
But of course, taylor has tomake a mountain out of a

(02:44:48):
molehill in every situation,because she is an endless victim
, and if there's an opportunityfor her to be a victim, she is
going to paint that storyscreaming.
So, that being said, like Isaid, her lyrics are not,
they're not metaphorical.
They're not, they're not poetryand art.

(02:45:09):
They are just simply what herlife is, um.
So when it comes to taylortalking about, um, any kind of
witchcraft that she ispracticing or has been done to
her via her lyrics, I am of theinclination to believe that it
is 100 true, right, um?

(02:45:30):
But that's because that's hertrack record, correct.
That's just based on, that'sjust based on you boo, so um.
And of course, we also havethis week the pop pop star,
ariana grande, uh, who does havea very beautiful voice, and
that's kind of as far as acompliment I'm going to give her

(02:45:53):
.

Speaker 1 (02:45:54):
But she is a couple of frequencies away from me, not
being able to tolerate hervoice though.

Speaker 2 (02:46:00):
I will say that that's fair.
That's fair.
She's very talented.
She's to me, she's almost likeChristina Aguilera, where it's
like Christina Aguilera is avery talented vocalist who has
great control of her voice.
That being said, I don't enjoylistening to her, but I will
give her props because she'stechnically very proficient.

(02:46:22):
But what's in his technicalproficiency.
If you don't want to listen tothe person, agreed so that's
kind of the the realm thatAriana falls in for me, although
I will say I I actually doprefer her voice to Christina's
but I will say technicallyproficient.
And you're going to get a lotof accolades from singers and

(02:46:42):
people who know how difficult itis to control a voice.
But at the end of the day, I'mgoing to be listening to people
that maybe aren't considered tohave great voices or great
control of their voices, simplybecause I enjoy the tone of
their voice, um, and maybe theyalso don't release darkness when
they sing.
Maybe that's that's part of itas well.

(02:47:06):
So ariana uh, publicly statedthat she is a witch, that she
does tarot readings for people.
She does all sorts.
I think it wasn't just tarotreadings that she does for
people.
They come to her on set,allegedly.
So, I think, more so than allthese people fessing up to being

(02:47:34):
witches, which those of us inthis world I feel like our
listeners are the type whoalready knew.
We knew We'd done been knowing.
But what I think is interestingis that for the past 10 years,
we've really seen a shift in whothe good guy and the bad guy is
in the story.
First of all, there has beenpainted a good guy bad guy in

(02:47:55):
the first place.
And the good guy went frombeing Christian because Taylor
Swift claimed to be a Christianup until, I would say, at least
her 1989 album, her documentary,where she was like I'm a
Christian, we don't stand forthis Um talking about I think it

(02:48:16):
was some Trump stuff, but she,yes, she said that during her
documentary and that wasreleased after 1989.
And I think was filmed during89.
Tour, if I remember correctly,I only saw clips of it.
As my roommate who was obsessedwith her was watching it, I
walked into the room and I sawthe clip and I walked back into

(02:48:37):
my room and heard it through thedoor, because the walls of New
York city apartments are madeout of crackers.
Yes, but that is um, so that'spretty recent Um in my opinion,
the 2010s weren't that long ago.
Please don't make me feel old inthe comments.
Okay, I was cool in New York inthe 2010s and we're just going

(02:48:59):
to hold on to that no.
But yeah, up until recent years, that's something that Taylor
claimed to be, it's somethingthat a lot of celebrities claim
to be, and it made their liveseasier to act one way and then
say another and and be like yeah, I act like this and maybe you
misinterpreted me, but I'm achristian.

(02:49:19):
I'm a christian like I'minnocent.

Speaker 1 (02:49:21):
I'm a christian saying that she was a christian
honestly was just a sedative forthe christian community.
It was enough to say.
It was enough for Christiangirlies to be like, oh she's
safe.
And then some Christian mommieswere like, oh she's safe.

Speaker 2 (02:49:39):
Exactly, it was really just to get her fans, who
were mostly young girls, to gettheir parents to allow them to
listen to her, because really,when you look at her demographic
, it's a lot of girls who wereraised in Christian homes, youth
group girlies, and she reallygot a hold of a generation and

(02:50:00):
made them really bitter witchywomen, bitter and juvenile,
absolutely Not allowing anybodyto grow up.
Yeah, or let anyone actually getover anything in their lives,
or forgive or move on.
Just hold on to it.
Oh, it's like that tweet.

(02:50:26):
Taylor swift's music is forpeople who have never gotten
over anything in their life ever.
I.

Speaker 1 (02:50:32):
I mean, where's the lie?
And I understand.
So people are like, oh my gosh,please understand that if you
like this artist, then like him.
You could pack it up.
You don't have to be here.
Thanks for playing.
But like, just know, this isour opinion and when we share
our opinion it does not have toequate us damning anybody to

(02:50:55):
hell.
You can be just an artist whohas bad theology or an artist
who makes poor life decisions,but sure, if you like their
music, you like their music.
That's your prerogative.
If you like their music, youlike their music.

Speaker 2 (02:51:29):
That's your prerogative, so we are privy to
believe this way.
However, there is a majorityand there is a minority.
You might want to check withwho you're with.
Yeah, yeah, um, so now that, uh, now the taylors fans have aged
to the point where they are oldenough that their parents are
not regulating the music theylisten to, um, they are in
control of their own phones andiPods and et cetera.

(02:51:53):
Nobody has an iPod anymore.
Oh my God, that's crazy.
I'm a young person.
Ipods were just really iconic,okay, but now that her fans are
old enough to control theirmusic listening and what they
intake, now she's totally okay,because in the past 10 years or

(02:52:16):
so, media, musicians, televisionfilms have all shifted the
cultural opinion of witchcraftand of christianity to the point
where people like taylor andariana can comfortably come out
and say I'm a witch and peoplewon't think they're evil.
Yes, and they did that.

(02:52:37):
Firstly, they started this backwhen they started to really
hammer in gay rights and theywere like hey, saying gay is not
okay is an insult.
That's where it started,correct, don't kid yourselves.

(02:52:57):
That's where it started.
Correct, don't kid yourselves.
That's where it started.
And so it went from the pointof oh, like, let's accept gay
people to then, if you don'taccept gay people, that you're
evil and that you're um, you'rewrong and that you are a
horrible person.
And of course, the people thatstuck to their guns were people
who had scripture and God andactual values that had an anchor

(02:53:22):
, versus people who have moralsand values that are anchored to
nothing.
So the people that stuck totheir guns were actual
Christians who really believethe Bible, and so they made a
villain out of Christians.
So now people are of themindset of the bad guy is the
Christian and the good guy isthe witch, and the culture got

(02:53:45):
duped.
And now they're looking atGlinda the good witch like she's
the hero of the movie, when youknow, at the end of the day,
you killed someone.
Right, you killed the WickedWitch of the East.
At least the Wicked Witch ofthe East was like hey, I'm
wicked, don't come down here,glenda.

(02:54:09):
And being like in a bubble,like oh, yay, you killed her.
Where were you when themunchkins were scared?

Speaker 1 (02:54:17):
Where were you when they?

Speaker 2 (02:54:19):
were being bullied.
You were in your little bubblein the kingdom of the north or
the south I forget which one,because it was the east and the
west that were wicked and thenorth and the south that were
good, allegedly.
Where were you in your bubblewhen the munchkins were abused?
When the monkeys had to dolabor for the Wicked Witch of

(02:54:41):
the West.
Where were you, Glenda?
You know why you weren't there?
Because you're a mean girl,Glenda.
You're a f***.

Speaker 1 (02:54:52):
Now, did you know Ariana is playing a witch?
You know she's in wicked which,which?

Speaker 2 (02:55:01):
which is she playing?
I actually don't know she'sprobably playing edina menzel's
role, the green witch right Idon't know.

Speaker 1 (02:55:10):
No, she's playing galinda, I think, because the
actual the green witch is blackshe's playing galinda?

Speaker 2 (02:55:17):
I think so, and I made this reference that's what
I was saying.

Speaker 1 (02:55:20):
I was like did you know that?
Did you know this was a thing?

Speaker 2 (02:55:23):
that was god, that was the lord, because I forgot I
didn't.
I think I vaguely knew that shewas in the film, but I didn't
know who she was playing, as youcan see, because I was like, oh
, she'd probably want to be adina menzel's character, because
then she could do defyinggravity of course, yeah, nope,
arianda's literally going to beGlinda.
That makes sense, actually,because she did do a version of
Popular with Mika or Micah.

(02:55:44):
It's Mika, Mika he's actually.
I miss Mika.

Speaker 1 (02:55:50):
That's right.

Speaker 2 (02:55:51):
He was great back in the late 2000s.
I'm young.

Speaker 1 (02:55:56):
There was a trailer in February.
I didn't realize it was.
I knew it was a thing, but Ididn't know.
I was like, oh, this is reallya thing.

Speaker 2 (02:56:05):
Yeah, wow, okay, yeah , okay.
I stand by what I said.
That was the Lord.

Speaker 1 (02:56:10):
You see, you didn't even know Because I was like I
don't think she knows.
But now I'm actually realizingthat the interview in which she
said that interview in which shesaid that, did she say that,
was that an interview for wicked?
And I'm like, are you just dumband trolling and think that
you're like?

Speaker 2 (02:56:29):
oh yeah, I'm a witch, ha ha ha.
Um, I personally would wouldthink like and I worked in the
entertainment industry so I canjudge everybody.
Yeah, but most people in theentertainment industry are very
spiritual.
People like artists are veryspiritual.
You won't really find anyartists that don't have some
kind of spirituality yes evenwhen they're like confused and

(02:56:52):
general about it.
They're at least like they'rekind of like aware of a little
bit of what they believe andwhat they're doing, but none of
them are, are like, not like.
There's nobody who just likelooks at the world like duh, the
physical world is all there iswithin that industry, which is,
I think, the a big mistake thechurch makes.

(02:57:14):
I think the church makes thismistake like oh, they're just
caught up in the world, in like,the like parties and the like,
the sex and the drugs and allthat Like it's just all there's
in the world Like.
No, these people are not in theworld in the physical sense
that you guys think that theyare.
No they're certainly not in theworld the way that the

(02:57:34):
Southeastern church believes,because they go to church on
Sunday, but then they do sleepwith their boyfriend and
girlfriends and they do go outto parties every once in a while
and they feel super guilty forit.
That's your sin, vice, yourphysical world's advice, that's
yours.
Don't paint that on artists,musicians, people in the
entertainment industry, becausethey are not like you For real.
They are artistic.

(02:57:54):
They're the people that did notfit in in school or in anything
.
They are not the normies thatyou guys are, where you were
trying to fit in in school andtrying to fit in with your
friends, trying to be popular.
These people did not fit in.
They were either bullied orthey thought they were better
than everyone else because theywere different.

(02:58:15):
Yes, yes One or the other andeither way, they come into this
industry and they have somethingto prove.
These people are notsidetracked by relationships in
the way that you are.
They're not sidetracked byparties.
They're not sidetracked byshopping.
These people, while they doenjoy all of those superficial
things, for the most part theyare all extremely spiritual and

(02:58:37):
they seek spiritual things andthey seek God and they seek
spiritual things and they seekGod.
And usually their experiencewith Christianity has been this

(02:58:57):
is a three-dimensional,four-dimensional religion where,
outside of what you arephysically seeing an emotional
response to something, there isno response from the church
about what do you do with that?
They're just like get back inthe box right, that's been there
so they're done with the box.
They perceive that as the box,so they've left the box and
they're fully diving into anyother spirituality that they can

(02:59:20):
find, and usually that'seastern it's.
It's either buddhism um orwitchcraft, it's usually those
are the top two.
I would say I hardly ever belike someone's.
Like I'm exploring spiritualityso I'm become, I've become
hindu or I've become um muslim.
Like I don't see that.
No, these are likeartsy-fartsies.

(02:59:42):
Yes, yes, so if, anythingthey're going to do.
Maybe they'll like worship someAfrican gods, maybe even like
dabble in some other, likemythological gods, but for the
most part they're going to goBuddhist or witchcraft.
And so when it comes to Arianabeing like I'm a witch, I don't
think she's being like ha ha, ha, no.
And so when it comes to Arianabeing like I'm a witch, I don't

(03:00:02):
think she's being like ha ha, ha, no, I think she's serious.
I think she's been diving intothis for a while and I think she
got deeper and deeper anddeeper, to the point where she
was testing out her spiritualabilities.
And, of course, humans havespiritual abilities, because
humans are not just a physicalbeing.
Right, everybody knows that.

Speaker 1 (03:00:16):
Yeah, and.

Speaker 2 (03:00:17):
Christians know that your spirit, soul and body, so
you actually do innately havespirit, spiritual skills that
God gave you because he actuallyintended you to use them and,
of course, if you use them apartfrom Christ, he says that
anyone who enters through anyother way other than me, through
the door they are.
They're a thief and a robber.

(03:00:39):
So, you're entering the spiritrealm illegally when you do it
without Christ.

Speaker 1 (03:00:44):
Which is dangerous.

Speaker 2 (03:00:52):
You absolutely do have spiritual abilities that
were prepared for you to use asa member of the body of Christ,
because every person waspredestined to be adopted into
the body of Christ and to usethose giftings for the kingdom.
So, even though I obviouslydespise Taylor Swift and that's
my own issue like God doesn'tdespise you, taylor If Taylor
ever listens to this like mybeef with you is not God's beef
with you, the church's beef withyou is not God's beef with you

(03:01:14):
he has a lot of patience.
I hate you, but that's just meand you.
We're not going to be friends,okay, we're never going to be
friends, don't even try.
But Jesus loves you and hasredemption for you.
Ariana, I don't have thepatience to be friends with you.
You sound really dumb, butthat's just me, because I'm a
sometimes Okay.

(03:01:35):
But Jesus loves you and Jesushas redemption for you and he
wants you to use your spiritualgifts fully and not half blinded
mostly more than halfwayblinded through the realm of the
dark spiritual forces that youare working with that you're not
aware that you're working with.
I'm sorry about that, but I'mjust saying she's, she's.

(03:01:59):
That's the progression.
You, you start to dive into itand then you notice, you have
abilities, you begin to use them.
That's what happened.

Speaker 1 (03:02:08):
That's straight up what happened.
Yeah, that dissertation wasthat was, that was good.

Speaker 2 (03:02:20):
I got heated.

Speaker 1 (03:02:23):
I'm so sorry sorry, because, as they say, you play
stupid games, you win stupidprizes, right?
And people who want illegalaccess to the spiritual realm,
like you're kind of asking forit.

Speaker 2 (03:02:44):
So let's talk about some Christians.

Speaker 1 (03:02:47):
Yeah, well, you forgot to talk about Gaga.

Speaker 2 (03:02:50):
Oh, I always forget about Gaga.
I forget about her all the time.
Gaga, Lady Gaga for those ofyou who didn't pick that up from
just the Gaga has alongstanding relationship with a
very evil witch, MarinaAbramovic, and this is well

(03:03:13):
known.
Just go on, TikTok Lord, pleaseprotect our TikTok.
Gosh please talk.
And um, and she is, uh,definitely, um, she's been
upfront about being trained byher and, of course, her music um
very evident of her opinion ofchristianity, particularly

(03:03:36):
within the song judas, where shebasically claims to be in love
with judas.
And anybody who's seen thatmusic video?
Oh my god, that music video iscrazy.
I can't believe we allowed thatto happen the like.
How so wicked it the like,actual, like like anabolic
sexual movements weird, it'sjust nasty.

(03:04:00):
It's like yeah, but I did see avideo on our blessed TikTok.
Lord, Protect Our TikTok fromall evil, hurt, harm and danger,
including Joe Biden, aspuppeteered by Obama, and she
was performing Judas, and was itwhat felt?

(03:04:23):
Was it a plank, like some kindof beam?

Speaker 1 (03:04:25):
it was like.
It was like a beam, it was itwas wood it was.

Speaker 2 (03:04:30):
A hearty piece of wood fell on her head
mid-performance and she had tocancel the show she had.
She got a concussion.
Look you, you left yourselfopen to that.
You, I'm just.
I laughed.
I'm sorry, that was funny.
Um, I just want you to knowthat god could have done far

(03:04:52):
worse.
So obviously he still has mercyfor you.
So I don't want you to get, Idon't want you to get twisted.
Let me talk to god.
I like she would talk, listento me.
But I'm just saying heobviously has a lot of mercy.
It was just a concussion.

Speaker 1 (03:05:04):
It was just remember he, he is rich in mercy um
definition, the definition ofyou play stupid games and you
win stupid prizes absolutely,and it's like how many times has
she performed this song?

Speaker 2 (03:05:26):
She put out this music video, the whole music
video shot.
He allowed that to happen.
He allowed all this stuff tohappen and then you know, I
think there must have beensomething about the, the
ignorance that she started withwhen she wrote the song, when
she filmed the video, when sheperformed it.
In the past there was, I think,a lot of ignorance, but I think
that now obviously she knowsand understands a lot more of

(03:05:48):
what she's doing and knows thatit's bad, opens you up to get a
little smack on the head, and Ilove to see it.

Speaker 1 (03:05:56):
She went too long with being unscathed.

Speaker 2 (03:06:00):
And I also just want to say to all you Christians who
like to vote with your dollarswe're not buying If you watch
the Happy and Holy podcast we'renot buying House Labs, lady
Gaga's makeup line we're justnot doing it.
We're also not buying ArianaGrande's REM Beauty or her
fragrances.
We're just not doing it beautyor her fragrances.

(03:06:24):
We're just not doing that.
So then, if you feel liketaking up a personal beef with
someone um, I was personallyvictimized by pat mcgrath's team
, so if you want to also stopbuying her makeup, I'd
appreciate that if you'relooking for a cause, that would
be, you know, help her boycottPat McGrath.

Speaker 1 (03:06:41):
So we're, we're.
We're not trying to be like, oh, gasp, sorry, I didn't want to
trigger my dog, I didn't.
We're not looking to be alllike, flabbergasted by the world
, acting like the world.
Okay, I know you guys are like,oh, my God, the lady guy goes.
Lady guy, we're not surprisedby that.
However, however, some of youmay be easily duped in the name

(03:07:05):
of um emotional manipulation perse.
Sometimes people are like, oh,but you like she's a soul, yes,
she's a soul, she's a soul, shehas a body and she needs the
spirit of good and um, but whenyou're openly mocking, right,

(03:07:28):
openly mocking, you guys arealways like oh, but Paul, you
know, he turned around overnight.
Paul was persecuting Christiansright, christians never
persecuted God, because hethought he was doing this in the
name of God.
So a big difference be.
You know, fighting battles youcan't win.
Um, when she got clunked in thehead.

(03:07:49):
First of all, I need to findthat video and redo that video
and add like looney toons,sounds to it.
Um, maybe I'll do that forhappy and Holy's Instagram.
I couldn't help but think aboutDagon the false god and how he
was humiliated.
Well, he couldn't be humiliatedbecause he's not real, but how

(03:08:11):
the deity and the Philistinesgot humiliated in 1 Samuel
Because they were just like, oh,this is our statue.
And then God's like reallyBeheaded him, you know, cut off
his hands he had no hands and hewas like falling over butt in
the air and then anybody whomessed with him got hemorrhoids.
So like I kind of see thecorrelation there with Lady Gaga

(03:08:35):
.
It's just silly.
It's a battle you're not goingto win.
The enemy stands defeated.
We know how the story ends.
Over and over I will say this.
And then the whole thing aboutthe spirituality that I quickly
will touch on is that the worldwill give an answer for

(03:08:58):
spirituality where the churchdoesn't.
And so what happens is thesecelebrities who go like, oh, I'm
having experiences, I'm havingdreams, I'm having visions, I'm
hearing an audible voice, I'mgetting impressions, I have
intuition, like all of thesethings, and they don't have

(03:09:18):
words for it.
And if they go to the church,especially a cessationist, if
they go to the church and thechurch is like what did Eli tell
Samuel?
Oh, you're just hearing things.
Go back to bed.
How many times were they toldto go back to bed, you know,
until somebody who was spiritualcame to them and was like, oh,

(03:09:40):
let me show you the ways ofspirituality.
So it's the shortcoming of thechurch.
I know you guys may think thatI'm just like a church bully.
I love the church, I serve thechurch, I work in the church.
But some of y'all are crazy,some of y'all are lazy and some
of y'all need help, and so I'monly saying this for the good of

(03:10:00):
your people, so that we canlike buck up.
We need to buck up, and so ifyou're wondering like well, how
do these people fall off and howthis happened?
And like you know, oh, like youknow, how can they be saved?
We need to take ownership inthe church.
And I will never forget I havethis opinion because I will

(03:10:22):
never forget one of my goodfriends from Philly told me he
was having like these crazydreams, crazy prophetic dreams
and these visions.
He was like a heavy seer, andthis was even before I had a
grid for it.
But I remember he said he wentto his pastor and his pastor
kind of shooed him away in asense of like yeah, you know, oh
, what'd you eat last night?

(03:10:42):
You know pizza and pepperoni,like you know, all of a sudden
started like oh, what's the wordthat the young kids say,
gaslighting him, and was like oh, yeah, yeah, no, that was
nothing and he was just like Iwas just looking for answers,
and so he gravitated towards ourcommunity and so he gravitated
towards our community.

(03:11:05):
I went to ministry school when Iwas younger and he gravitated
towards our community because wewere giving him answers in
areas where he had questionsthat no one wanted to touch.
And so, like we're grateful nowthat he like understands his
God-given dreams and not thedreams have a purpose.
But he tried to go to hischurch and instead of his pastor
just being like you know, Idon't think I really know a lot
in this area, so let me pointyou in this direction.

(03:11:26):
Or like, I might beill-informed or may have been
ignorant, which is a thing inthis area, but let me point you
in a direction that would havebeen a lot better than hey,
you're just must've been the youknow the cheesesteak you ate
last night.

Speaker 2 (03:11:43):
You know, like.

Speaker 1 (03:11:44):
That's not fair.
So we, we have to do better asa church.
So, as we like, talk aboutAriana and, of course, we talk
about the Gaga and she, who willnot be named, who we have named
Taylor Swift.
We have named Taylor Swift.

(03:12:08):
We thought that we wouldcelebrate the celebrities who
have been professing Jesus andnot witchcraft, because it would
be very much playing into theirhands if all we did was freak
out about the amount ofcelebrities who are openly
practicing witchcraft, and tothat I say we just we need to

(03:12:31):
bring shame.
We need to bring shame back.
Yeah, you need to be ashamedthat you're practicing
witchcraft, but like we're alllike it's their truth and let
them be them and like anyway.
Um, that's why people are like,oh, but like we're all like
it's their truth and let them bethem and like anyway.
Um, that's why people are like,oh, but like they feel
comfortable.
You need to know that peoplefeel comfortable and that's why
they're like, really likethey're laughing at being
witches, whether they are theyaren't, whether they just think

(03:12:54):
they're taking, whether theythink they're taking, like,
ownership.
What was the girl who got like,who got rebuked by paul for the
divination?

Speaker 2 (03:13:02):
oh, um yeah, the girl who was like these are the like
men, who men are serving themost high god or whatever, and
he rebuked her and the spiritcame out yeah, it was like act
16, and it says that paul gotannoyed, which praise god.

Speaker 1 (03:13:18):
Um, so he got annoyed , and so these people feel like
comfortable.
They feel comfortable aroundthe people that they are.
I can't imagine that they'renot encountering any Christians,
but these people are feelingcomfortable and people are being
duped, especially youngerpeople Not that I'm old, not
that we're old but especiallyyounger people who are like oh

(03:13:40):
so you can kind of get the samething that Christians get, but
we're practicing witchcraft.
Oh, okay, it's like the samething, it's all under one
umbrella and it's like no, no,it's not.
So we're not here to be likepanic mode.
Everybody's professing to be awitch.
We're just kind of like, hmm,how's it feel like to be on the
losing team, but?

(03:14:00):
But instead we want tocelebrate the Christians who are
professing Jesus, and so Iwould love to bring in some
clips at some point, some pointI don't know when, but at some
point I'd love to bring you, ormaybe we'll post it on Instagram
.
Check in on our Instagram andI'll post like some cool clips

(03:14:22):
of people who have beenprofessing Jesus.
I heard a really cool clip fromRyan Garcia earlier, who just
won an amazing fight.
He was on Patrick David,patrick Bet David's podcast and
Patrick Bet David was like yo,so tell me about your like
routine and tell me about yourstrategy.
And he was like oh, yeah, Ijust asked the Holy Spirit and

(03:14:44):
this guy, this guy's like offthe walls.
You need to listen to his likehis interviews.
He's like, he's wild.
He's very abstract.
I love the way he talks.
You can't, you don't see wherehe's.
He's kind of like he talks likehow he boxes, you don't know,
like if he's pulling the left orright, like he keeps you on
your toes.
Wow, he was like yeah, I askedthe holy spirit for a strategy
and part of his strategy was hepulled the king david and he

(03:15:05):
pretended to be crazy and he lethe let a lot of people be like
um, like oh, this guy's gonnalose this fight.
He bet, like I think, 12million dollars on himself, even
like, and he won because he leteverybody think he was crazy.
So, ryan garcia that's so epicmy dude, but you gotta hear the
clip, like y'all, I don't wanty'all thinking I'm making it up.

(03:15:26):
He like, literally, was likeholy spirit gave me a strategy.
So, ryan garcia, another peep,another peepity peep that we
want to shout outs to blackchina.
Black china had professed jesuslike two years ago.
She's still going strong.
We love her, adore that.

(03:15:47):
Um shia labeouf, like hey, he'ssomebody that like he's.
Every so often I'm hearing aclip of his and I'm like this
guy still got it.
He's got it, he's got the juice.
I think he's kind of leaning alittle bit more towards eastern
orthodox, which is do it, we'reall listen, same spirit.
So, um shia, we want to applaudyou.

(03:16:12):
Um mark walberg right, markwalberg, I think, is on hollow.
Is he doing hollow or is he onthe other one?

Speaker 2 (03:16:19):
okay, he's.
He's on Halo.
I'm pretty sure he's soconsistent.

Speaker 1 (03:16:23):
So consistent, like he's doing the Catholic jazz.
We love it.

Speaker 2 (03:16:28):
Boston Catholics I will say they are loyal people.
I love me some Boston Catholics.

Speaker 1 (03:16:34):
Yeah, they may be tied to the mafia, but they, you
know Boston Catholics, don't besupposed to be my family.
right now they you know bostoncatholics don't be my family
right now.
Um, candace owens had recentlygot baptized in london in the
catholic church.
So she went from being, I think, protestant to just to catholic
.
So some people are just like,how could you do it?

(03:16:55):
It's the lesser gospel, listen,who cares?
Um, I'm not surprised becauseher husband is catholic, so
she's just doing.
This is what the family's gonnado and, yeah, we just pray that
she um receives the gospel inits entirety.
For all that, it is her and herentire family.

(03:17:16):
Um, what's the point of beingupset like?
She loves jesus.
That's one thing I do know, andso we applaud you.
Who would I say?
I said Chaya, I said Mark, Isaid Candice.
Let's give it up for them.
Earlier we talked about DaddyYankee.

(03:17:40):
Daddy Yankee and, uh, kat von d.
So shout outs to kat von d,daddy yankee.
And, of course, alan richardson,who is a um, who is the star,
the forerunner of a show calledreacher that is on amazon.
He um recently was getting someflack because his, his show is

(03:18:02):
gory.
Okay, um, even there areepisodes of like law and order,
and I'm late in the game withlaw and order.
I'm still very sensitive tosome episodes, some things on on
screen, like I have a weakstomach and I have a very
imaginative mind, so there aresome things I can't watch.
And so reacher has a greatstoryline, but it's very gory,

(03:18:25):
very gory and, um, I don't evenwant to say very vulgar, because
it's more gory than it isvulgar, and so people are just
like, dude, how could you takethat role?
It's just like notrepresentative of you, jesus
christ.
So, um, he was given somepushback there and, um, I was
giving advice not too long ago.

(03:18:49):
No, it would have been a yearago.
A year ago I was talking to anactor, um, she was getting into
the game, she's been in someroles and stuff like that, and
she said she was struggling with, um, this one role that she was
supposed to play, like anaddict, and she was like I just
don't know, I don't want tocorrupt my witness by playing
this addict and I don't want toget too lost into it.

(03:19:10):
And I was like, well, you kindof have to have to disassociate
your spirit from your soul.
You're playing this role and,um, your spirit covers you,
right, and in your souls, whatyou're engaging with, even maybe
your body, because you kind ofhave to do all these things and

(03:19:31):
do the role and whatever.
And I was just like you'recovered by the blood and you
have to let your spirit governyour soul, which protects your
body.
But sometimes we we try to like, um, yeah, compartmentalize
everything as a christian, whereit's just like one box, one box
, one box.
And then we think that we putthem on different hats, like now

(03:19:55):
it's time for my soul hat, nowit's time for my spirit hat.
And I was like so when you arein these roles, you have to let
your spirit govern and that'show you don't get corrupted.
Again, we talked about it beingan incorruptible seed, but
that's how you don't allowyourself to be corrupted in any
industry that you're in.

(03:20:15):
That's why there are someChristians who can be, can be,
in the music industry.
There are some Christians whocan be in the music industry.
There are some Christians whocan be in the film industry,
acting, playing some crazy roles, but not being succumbed to it,
not being a slave of that role.
Allow your spirit to governyour soul and it leads your body
.
And so, alan Richardson notsure if he has had that piece of

(03:20:36):
advice, if you listen to thisand this piece of advice, that's
what I would say to you, as Isaid to my friend who's an actor
.
But till then, daddy Yankee,kat Von D and Alan Richardson,
we applaud you.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
And, of course, last butcertainly not least, the reason

(03:20:59):
why he's not least is becauseour dear now brother in the lord
russell brand who's just beenbaptized baptism thing
congratulations, russell.
Welcome to the fam I mean socute russell, what a crazy

(03:21:26):
redemptive story.
Because he was like a sexaddict, drug addict.
I mean he was the lowest of thelow he was in, he was acting,
he was married to katie perry.
I mean, look at him now.
Does he not deliver?

Speaker 2 (03:21:41):
and it's so sincere.
Like watching his videos, hejust seems like a kid who's just
like asking questions and fullof wonders.

Speaker 1 (03:21:48):
And open, like so open.
He's like how did it happenwhen you got baptized?
What books are you reading?
That's so good, it's so good,it's super good.
I think what separates peoplefrom the Russells and the
Connie's of the world is that,at some point, these celebrities
, who are no different from usas people, right, except for now

(03:22:10):
, they're in the limelight.
That's what makes them quote,unquote a celebrity Doesn't make
them greater of a Christian,doesn't make them lesser of a
Christian.
They'reian, um, but some, atsome point, they get cut off
from community and this is not atopic for tonight, um, as we
don't want to hold you guys fivehours but, um, these, these

(03:22:34):
people who disconnect themselvesfrom community, but they, they
want to run like a rogue mission, solo, be a lone sheep instead
of a lone wolf, but a lone sheep.
You don't last long in that,and so that's why I talk about,
like TikTok ministry, like a lotof people, if you follow the

(03:22:57):
flow chart and you're like, oh,and are you connected to a
church?
And it stops there, like theygot the following slash fans,
they got the, the money comingin, they have the public praise,
but then you're like, oh, andwhat house are you under?
crickets these celebrities likemaybe where some of them get it
wrong, because I know thatpeople are saying, like kanye's
off the deep rails and it's like, well, where were all?

(03:23:19):
Were all the people who werewith him when he became
Christian?
Where were all those people?
Did he kick them all out of hislife?
Did they leave after thepaparazzi left?
Same thing with Justin BieberNot saying that there's anything
wrong with Justin Bieber's walk, but all those people who
wanted to publicly be there whenJustin Bieber was professing
Christ and then now it's likehe's struggling and crickets.

(03:23:41):
Publicly be there when JustinBieber was professing Christ and
then now it's like he'sstruggling and crickets.
So Russell Brand's kind ofgoing with a different approach.
I'm sure behind the scenes healso has like some like real
people connecting him, but Ilove that he's so engaged with
the community where he's like,oh, what did it feel like for
you and what books are youreading and what community and
do you pray the rosary and allthese things, and so it's really

(03:24:01):
beautiful to see.
But I would love to see, yeah,just the sustainability of
people who are in the limelight,who already have the weight and
the pressure and the anxiety ofhaving to perform and be all
the time, and them to just comeinto a community that just
receives them for them.

(03:24:23):
But till then, we justcelebrate, we celebrate.

Speaker 2 (03:24:31):
Wait, what was it?
That's a great word tocelebrate celebrities.
Celebrate, celebrate, celebratefor celebrities only Only
Tillate.
Celebrate For celebrities only.

Speaker 1 (03:24:42):
Only so then we celebrate.
We celebrate these people whoprofess Jesus, who proclaim
Jesus.
That's what we're going tocelebrate.
I think I have a sound forpeople who who profess

(03:25:02):
witchcraft.
I just I had it in the chamber.
I just I might as well use it.

Speaker 2 (03:25:11):
I actually did want to point out, when it comes to
celebrities, that that eitherpractice witchcraft or in any
kind of like new age, and thatincludes like Buddhist and like
those meditative lifestylesversus Christians, kind of like
new age, and that includes likebuddhist and like those
meditative lifestyles versuschristians.
What you will see is, whensomeone enters into witchcraft,
buddhism, new agey types ofreligions is, you'll see a
progression.
It happens like bit by bit,like they kind of toe their way

(03:25:33):
in.
Um, maybe they start byallowing someone to do a tarot
reading, maybe they start withhoroscopes and then it goes into
birth charts and then it justescalates.
It just escalates more and more.
It sneaks up on them untilthey're casting their first
spell and then it's like nowit's a lifestyle, now they do

(03:25:54):
readings on set for people andthey just kind of get, yeah,
they just tow their way in untilit's just quicksand, whereas
when celebrities becomeChristians, it's a dramatic
overnight shift to a lightness,a joy, a total change of their
ways and of their heart andconviction of things.

(03:26:16):
All of a sudden, they'regetting rid of things in their
life.
It is suddenly, and so I justwant to point that out.
There's no other religion thatdoes a suddenly shift.
When it comes to convictingpeople of wrong behavior, even
like, say, I feel to bring upAndrew Tate, where he, like he,
went from being Christian tobeing Muslim.
That didn't dramatically shifthis behavior.

(03:26:38):
He was already living this samelifestyle and then he just
shifted the team he played forhe didn't have a lightness or a
joy, because I think maybe somepeople bring that up like, oh
well, he suddenly switched toIslam.
He did not suddenly changeanything about himself, he just
kind of switched the label.
He's pretty much living thesame, as far as I know.

(03:27:01):
So when it comes to peopleswitching to an Abrahamic
religion, sometimes theysuddenly change as far as
suddenly I'm labeled this way,but there's not a sudden change
of their lifestyle, of theirmood, of their character.
Christianity is the only onewhere people have a sudden shift
and I think next time somebodybrings this crap up you might

(03:27:24):
want to bring up that point.
So you're welcome, you can useit.
You could credit me, that wouldbe nice, but you don't have to,
just as long as you win theargument.

Speaker 1 (03:27:32):
If you don't credit me, you better win the argument,
okay, at least at least atleast please, yeah, at least at
least please, and yeah, yes andamen.
I just got a recent, like aflashback to you.
Were talking about thespirituality and also the
progressive how it kind of thelittle bit of leaven that just
comes in right, just leaven,leaven, leaven, boom, ruins the

(03:27:56):
whole, the whole dough.
And I'm a total.
I'm a total housewife, exceptfor the fact that I work.
But so I watched the housewivesof fill in the blank, some
better than others, some of themI don't care for, but the
Beverly Hills one it was that itwas like the coffee readings
and like this other thing youknow.
But I've always noticed inthose scenes, when it's like

(03:28:19):
that, that the christians thatare involved in that have like a
strong conviction like theydon't go like well, I'm
christian, but you can do mine.
They're like no, and it's likea huge dramatic scene, like one
will storm out and they'll belike what's wrong with you?
It's just a coffee read, andthey're like absolutely not.
And um, they have a show likethat for the wwe divas and

(03:28:42):
there's this one diva, her nameis trinity.
She's like I grew up in achristian household, I am
christian, and they went throughlike new orleans.
And the girl was like, um, thisgirl who had an injury was like
, oh, maybe a witch doctor canlike heal me.
I want to go to this witchdoctor and voodoo shop.
And, like trinity threw atantrum.
She's like I'm not going withyou guys, come on, let's go as a

(03:29:03):
group.
And she was just like, no,because of her conviction.
And it was really interestingto see.
And you don't find out thatthey're a Christian until
something like that happens.
Well, they're not open abouttheir Christianity.
Not saying it like condemningthem, but I'm saying it's just

(03:29:28):
like when that line in the sandwas drawn, they were like, oh no
, because they're like you'renot about to catch me slipping.
So I do appreciate that in thisrealm of um celebrityism.
So that's cool.
Uh, well, guys, we're gonnashift over to our, our next
segment.
Guys, we have our Word of theDay segment coming fresh back

(03:29:49):
into our show.
Jamie's got a little hotbiscuit for you guys.
She's our resident theologianhere and as we study the word,
please take out your notebooks,your pens and especially your
Bibles and enjoy Word of the Daywith.

Speaker 2 (03:30:10):
Jay.
Hi guys, I would love if youwould turn with me to Matthew 5.
You may recognize this veryiconic scripture as the Sermon
on the Mount.
Let's start in verse 3.
How blessed are the poor inspirit, for the kingdom of

(03:30:32):
heaven is theirs.
How blessed are those who mourn, for they will be comforted.
How blessed are the meek, forthey will inherit the land.
How blessed are those whohunger and thirst for
righteousness, for they will befilled.
How blessed are those who showmercy, for they will be shown
mercy.
How blessed are the pure inheart, for they will see God.

(03:30:54):
How blessed are those who makepeace, for they will be called
sons of God.
How blessed are those who arepersecuted because they pursue
righteousness, for the kingdomof heaven is theirs.
The word that I would like tozero in on today is blessed.
All right, so we're going towe're going to do the Greek and

(03:31:18):
the Hebrew in this word, but the, the Greek and the Hebrew in
this word, but the Greek is inmy screenshots.
The Greek of this word ismarkarios, and this is to mean

(03:31:39):
blessed, as stated and happy.
It is usually used to sayblessed in the Bible, but it's
used as happy and happier aswell.
So blessed is also to be happy.

(03:32:01):
This was not enoughinvestigation for me.
I had to know what this wordwas in the Hebrew, and so the
corresponding word is is Oshare,meaning happiness?
It shows up once in thescripture and it is in Genesis

(03:32:26):
30.
So I'm going to have you go toGenesis, I'm going to have you
flip to Genesis, chapter 30, andin verse 13, you can see here
this is the Leah is justoutshining Rachel in her
childbearing abilities, becauseGod saw that she was not loved.

(03:32:49):
So she had a lot of sons.
So we just say thank you, lord,for seeing those who are
unloved.
So in the verse 13, it saysLeah said I am happy that the
woman call me happy, so shenamed him Asher.
So there's a few kind ofvariations of Osher in this

(03:33:16):
scripture, but this exactcorresponding word and we know
that corresponding word.
For those of you who don't know,why is there a Hebrew
corresponding word for the GreekNew Testament?
That is because of theSeptuagint, which was written
about approximately 300 yearsbefore Jesus's birth, and it is

(03:33:37):
a Greek translation of the OldTestament which was used for the
Jews who were living in Greekterritories, the Hellenistic
Jews as they were often calledby historians, and this
Septuagint was also the Bible ofthe early church.

(03:33:57):
Because, well, the Bible waseither being written or, and for
parts of it, not written at allyet.
So the reason why there is acorresponding word for the Greek
is because in the Septuagint,the word osher in this verse was
markarios Happy.
Am I?
Osher meaning happiness, oshermeaning happiness.

(03:34:20):
And you could also say that Leahis blessed because she has a
child.
That made her happy, asher Aw,and the blessing of her son
brought her happiness.
So there's a great correlationbetween blessing and happiness

(03:34:40):
and an assurance that comes withblessing.
Blessing comes from God andblessing that comes from God
makes you feel the love of Godin a tangible way which makes
you happy.
How many times do we get a newjob and we're like, thank you,
god, get a new car, we get araise.
We get all these things, theseblessings.

(03:35:01):
We recognize them as comingfrom God and they make us happy,
and that is the way weexperience the goodness of God
in the land of the living.
Can we experience the good ofGod through hard times and
through suffering?
Absolutely yes, but God showshis goodness often through
blessing, shows his goodnessoften through blessing.
And when God saw that Leah wasunloved and unhappy and I'm

(03:35:33):
going to blame her father morefor that one really did her
dirty there.
But he saw her unhappiness, hewanted her to be happy, so he
blessed her and he gave her ason.
So I just want to point outthis great connection between
happiness and blessing, that wedo well to receive the blessings
of God, we take them gratefullyand we experience the full
happiness God wants us toexperience, the full happiness

(03:35:55):
that comes along with hisblessings.
So be blessed and be happy.

Speaker 1 (03:36:09):
I was going to say and be very and be happy.
I was gonna say and be very,very happy.
That is good news.
A couple um episodes ago, wewere talking about the
beatitudes and I was seeing thetwo translations in which
blessed is interchanged withhappy, and so in the young's
literal translation, like it'llsay normally, blessed are the
poor, um, it just says happy.
Happy the poor in spirit.

(03:36:31):
Um, happy the morning, happythe meek, happy those who hunger
and thirst for righteousness.
That verse alone, that versealone I think it's like verse
six blessed are the poor and itsays happy are those who hunger
and thirst for righteousness.

(03:36:52):
That's a powerful verse.

Speaker 2 (03:36:57):
And that must be because I think his name is
Robert Young who translated it.
I think it must be because helikely used, in addition to the
Hebrew manuscripts in the OldTestament, he also probably
looked at the Septuagint, whichis probably how he knew the
connection connection right,praise god, um, because it's

(03:37:21):
beautiful, like written that way, blessed, and it's very cool,
right, right, we, we adoreblessed, but happy.

Speaker 1 (03:37:29):
Happy the clean and heart for the.
Happy are the clean and heart,happy are the kind, um, happy
are the peacemakers.
Happy peacemakers, hello, we'rethe happy peacemakers on social
media.
Anyway, I am just, I adore it,and so thank you for that.

(03:37:50):
That yummy, yummy word, thatyummy word study.
I hope you guys were blessedand very happy, sweet.
Well, guys, thanks for hangingout with us, thanks for being
here.
We loved having you.
Thanks for staying a while, andwe mean a while.

(03:38:12):
This is the Happy and HolyPodcast.
We're here to just be helpersof your joy, and we're listed
where all podcasts are meant tobe found.
That is Apple Podcasts, that isGoogle Podcasts.
We're even on a YouTube RSSfeed, whatever that means, and
so our podcasts are also onYouTube.

(03:38:33):
But, of course, we're even onSpotify, the same platform where
Joe Rogan, who has episodeslonger than us, is listed, and
so we love having you hit us upon all the socials.
We got instagram, we gotfacebook, we got tiktok, all the
things, all the above.
We flashed the email somewherehalfway through the uh, through

(03:38:55):
the episode, but our email ishappy and holy co.
At gmailcom.
Please list all your questions,comments, concerns and
complaints, because we have atrash can for that, and, uh,
send them to our email.
And, of course, we have ourwebsite happy and holy cocom.
Please check it out.
We got the merch there.

(03:39:16):
Um, by the time this episodehas been edited, we will have
already announced a winner forour merch on the website, and so
shout out to our winners.
Guys, let us know in thecomments that you are watching,
let us know where you arewatching from.
We love having you.
Thanks for joining us.

(03:39:37):
Remember to be happy.

Speaker 2 (03:39:39):
And stay holy, so you .

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