FULL METAL JACKET | with guest Dean Imperial (Godfather of Harlem, Hammerhead, Imposters) - Happy Hour Flix | HHF

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
It's a movie where the most famous line is Me so
Horny, and yet it's not directedby Paul Verhoeven, it's Full
Metal Jacket.
Let's go on a sea movie.

(00:22):
It's 1987, we got HellraiserDirty, dancing Spaceballs,
planes, trains and Automobiles.
Good Morning Vietnam.
It's 0600, what's the O standfor?
Oh my god, it's early.
Lost Boys Raising Arizona,robocop Predator, the

(00:45):
Untouchables Princess Bride, asyou wish, and, honestly, of all
the great 80s Vietnam movieswe've got Born on the Fourth of
July, platoon, like I said, goodMorning Vietnam.
Killing Fields, first Blood,hamburger Hill, casualties of
War, but of course this day weare talking about 1987, Full

(01:05):
Metal Jacket and, as always herewith my host, steven Pierce,
how you doing bud.

Speaker 2 (01:11):
Matt Mundy.
It is great to be here, sir.
Thank you very much once againfor having me Absolutely.

Speaker 1 (01:15):
Thanks for being had.
So also want to introduce ourfantastic guest here to talk
about all things Full Metal andJacket.
And he's our dear friend,writer with work such as Adults
Only, impostors, Godfather ofHarlem Hammerhead, the man whose
talent is Tubuku, our friendDean Imperial.

(01:37):
What's up, dean?

Speaker 3 (01:38):
Really nice to be here nice setup in here.

Speaker 2 (01:41):
Yeah, man, absolutely .
We love your work long time.

Speaker 3 (01:45):
Somebody at some point was going to do that.
It had to, so really, let's getit out of the way now.

Speaker 1 (01:53):
And also to help us get in the mood, in the right
mood.
We do have a drink brought toyou today.
Our cocktail is, as always,brought to you by our friends at
Misguided Spirits, and today'sbeautiful concaction is mixed by
Chadwick Sutton, and you canfind him at Chadwick R, sutton
and Dean.
What do we got here?

Speaker 3 (02:14):
Okay.
So we got two ounces of Blancotequila, 25 ounces of lime juice
, 75 ounces of grenadine.
Checking this out here, mixingit right up here it says fancy,
palm grenadine.

Speaker 1 (02:27):
Oh, fancy.

Speaker 3 (02:28):
Well, this is the grenadine.

Speaker 2 (02:29):
I have in here.
It's nice and red color.
I think Chadwick did anotherdrink for us too, and it was
also like super red, wasn't?

Speaker 1 (02:34):
it.
Yeah, this guy's into horror,so.

Speaker 3 (02:37):
And four dashes of Angostura bitters.

Speaker 1 (02:41):
Oh, there we go.
I don't even know what that is.

Speaker 3 (02:43):
But.

Speaker 1 (02:44):
Oh, that's that stuff that settled your stomach
before they invented ginger.

Speaker 2 (02:48):
ale you gotta listen to the nice subtle sounds here.
There we go.

Speaker 1 (02:55):
Make sure you wash your hands after that,
absolutely.

Speaker 2 (02:58):
Nice and sticky Lime juice makes it all sticky.

Speaker 1 (03:01):
Alright, man, that looks fantastic.
Dean, do you remember the nameof this fantastic cocktail Chad
has for us?

Speaker 3 (03:09):
Oh yeah, the jelly donut, jelly donut.
That's why it's red.
Where do you follow Chad?

Speaker 2 (03:14):
Do we say that yeah, Chadwick or Sutton.

Speaker 1 (03:18):
Okay, sorry if we already said it, so we should
cheer.

Speaker 2 (03:22):
This is the first time we've had a guest on the
show.
Now we are early on here, butthis is the first time we've
ever had a guest that I've donethat.
So, dean, it's like you knowit's a really nice.
You know, we've always knownboth of us, we've known our
guests, so this is my first timemeeting you.
It's very nice to know you.
Oh a pleasure.
Oh, that's great.

Speaker 1 (03:38):
Yeah, this is fantastic.
You know well, it's just likeboot camp.
You gotta get to know eachother very well.
And we were like, well, there'sno better way than Excellent,
yeah, full fricking metal jacket.

Speaker 2 (03:49):
And you showed up and I mean in full, honestly, you
know, with wearing the shortskirt and hula skirt and floral
shirt.
You are wearing.
I would just quote the film andsay it looks like you can suck
a golf ball through a gargoyle.

Speaker 1 (04:04):
Yes the so, and feel free to give that right back,
because he cannot take it.

Speaker 2 (04:09):
I will cry and leave the bathroom is just down the
hall if I have to go.

Speaker 3 (04:14):
I've got two shoes firing away.
Just met him Tissues allsharing away.
No, you can play dirty, it'sfine.

Speaker 1 (04:21):
To go off script.
He's in the wrong movie.
He's Denangmé, Denangmé when Iget a rope and hang so.
So yeah, we're talking aboutone of our favorite movies.
Yeah, full metal jacket, jacket.

Speaker 2 (04:34):
So when did you guys see this movie the first time?

Speaker 3 (04:37):
Yeah, I did, I was.
I mean I would say I wasprobably it was on HBO or
Cinemax.

Speaker 1 (04:43):
Mm, hmm.

Speaker 3 (04:44):
And I guess I was 13 years old, I mean in 1987, 1987,
I was probably 10 or 10 or 11.
So yeah, I probably said 12, 13years old.

Speaker 1 (04:54):
So appropriate age.

Speaker 3 (04:56):
Yeah, no, I think I actually remember seeing it in
my grandmother's house.
She had HBO and I would stay upall night watching HBO, because
we didn't we didn't have it atthe time, right, and I remember
it was just the opening is justcompletely arresting.

Speaker 2 (05:09):
Oh my God, this movie is just.
This movie come out in 1987.
Yeah, yeah it's something like.
This was like Kubrick's lastmovie that came out while he was
alive, or he died shortlybefore it came out.

Speaker 3 (05:20):
Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no.
He did after this, he did.

Speaker 1 (05:24):
I did.

Speaker 3 (05:24):
I shot.
I shot 12 years later.

Speaker 2 (05:27):
Yeah, oh, really yeah .

Speaker 3 (05:28):
And he died right before.

Speaker 2 (05:29):
Right, so this is the last movie that came out while
he was.

Speaker 3 (05:34):
Exactly yes, yeah.

Speaker 1 (05:35):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (05:35):
And then they kept him frozen until 1998.
I mean 1980.
I mean this movie came out when1985 to 1987.

Speaker 3 (05:43):
So you saw, the year came out on HBO.
Yeah, not the year came out.
No, no, no, no, no, I saw itprobably 88, 89.

Speaker 2 (05:50):
Okay, so like short, so I was 12 or 13 at the time.

Speaker 3 (05:52):
Yeah, and I see it in the theater at that time even
though I you know there was atime when I started going to the
movies which your parents hadto take you and I wasn't really
tuned in to fill full metaljacket at that time, or movies
like that, right, you know.
But I mean I saw it and I likeI was not my parents Let me
watch anything anyway, you know,and most of the stuff at home
was on VHS, vhs or Betamax orwhatever.
But I watched as I stayed upall night and I just remember

(06:15):
relating to the Caprio characterto a Comer Pyle, hmm, because I
was a chubby kid then.
I'm a chubby kid now, but I waschubby kid then and you just,
you know, I found that there wassomething about the in the
moment when, at the beginning,you're watching this movie and

(06:36):
you can see a smirk on his face,which I think anybody would
have, a smirk.
When Sergeant Harman comes outand he starts that barrage, I
don't know how I would have kepta straight face.

Speaker 2 (06:44):
That's the.
That's the moment of that sceneis always so impactful because
he's grinning the way, I'mgrinning watching it and I would
be like I couldn't not do thatin real life and then it gets it
turns on its head so hard, like, and it's like wow, and not in
a way you expect it's sodemeaning.
That's the thing about chokeyourself.
It's like don't move my fuckinghand, but you know it's like.

(07:07):
It is so demeaning and that iswhat Arleigh Ernie is so
fantastic at in all that it'snot just like you're a piece of
shit, it's.
You are such a specific pieceof shit that you really don't
matter at all in the world.

Speaker 3 (07:22):
Exactly Right, you know.
And the tragedy of it's likethe first.
It's the first turn where yousee this guy's been funny and
now he literally did choke thehumor out of him.
He choked whatever, whateverinnocence and whatever.
He choked it out of him in thatmoment and I think I don't
remember, but they do this everyonce in a while they cut to

(07:44):
cowboy.

Speaker 2 (07:44):
Yes, arles Howard, observing this, it's almost like
he's clocking this and he's ouronly moment as the audience
member to kind of understand howwe should feel like that so
disturbing because I wanted tosay like so you saw that you
were 131415 somewhere on thereright and it started at 10, by
the way, I just want to sayusually like nine to 10, and
they came back and then we're 11to 12 and now we're 131415.

(08:07):
So the first time you saw ityou were 22.

Speaker 3 (08:08):
Yeah, I was doing the math wrong, so it came out in
87.
I was too young to see it, butI saw it in 8889 when I was then
.

Speaker 2 (08:16):
I'm just, you know, being a math perfectionist over
here.

Speaker 3 (08:19):
You know what I mean.

Speaker 2 (08:20):
Like we got it, we got to make sure all our
fractions are appropriate asmany takes as you want.
This is Stanley.

Speaker 3 (08:25):
Kubrick, that's right .
So that's the theme, and I willburn our outtakes.

Speaker 1 (08:34):
Yeah, I so, steve, do you remember when you first
watched this?

Speaker 2 (08:37):
Yeah, this for me was I think I love mid high school,
so, like I was, like you know,I was probably 16 years old when
I saw this, or the first halfof this movie.
This is like the whole thing ofthis movie, right?
Is there two movies?
This is two movies.
There's the first 40 minutesand then there's it's not even
halfway.
I checked this morning when Iwas watching it again, I just

(08:58):
watched this movie a month ago,so I watched this movie twice in
a month.
Then the last half is thelongest bit of the film, which
is you know, it's, it's, it's,that's the Vietnam film, right?

Speaker 3 (09:08):
Well, it's almost like I watched it again last
night and it's actually almostcut in three.
Yeah, because before they go toand I'm going to destroy them
to bow, or before the battle ofwho are oh, yeah, yeah, yeah,
yeah, yeah, when they're right,there's a yes, yeah, right, and
there's kind of a middle area,the last battle or oh no, it's
its own chapter.

Speaker 2 (09:28):
I know you're talking about like the sniper comes out
of the sniper.

Speaker 3 (09:31):
That's its own film.
So, even though it doesn't feellike it's like, when I was
watching I said like oh, there'sanother beat, there's a beat
change here, because now they'rein this final battle which is
distilling the conflict for us.

Speaker 2 (09:44):
Oh sure, and so that's the way I saw it last
night.

Speaker 3 (09:48):
But, however you know , kubrick's own people refer to
it as half right, because that'swhat it feels like, that's
right.

Speaker 2 (09:55):
I mean, it is such a sejura, hey, hey, hey, hey.
So like, look at that, I meanMatt Mundy's doing this podcast.
I gotta have my game.
You know, I got my tosaurus out.

Speaker 3 (10:06):
Like I'm trying to keep this shit.

Speaker 2 (10:07):
Yeah, I'm trying to keep this shit legit, but it is
such a big difference betweenthe opening and the end.
I will honestly say the most Iwatched this morning.
It felt the most vignetti thatI've ever felt watching it
because it feels like there'sthe 40 minute movie and then
everything in kind of what youwere saying is like everything
once they get to Vietnam sort offeels like not not connected

(10:29):
scenes, like there's obviouslythe same characters.
They feel like time is sort ofsuspended Totally, you know when
they go from like the stars andstripes to he goes out into the
field.
To now we have the wholemeeting of the you know the
Baldwin and you know the allthat whole thing.
And then they all go to a firstconflict, at a thing which this

(10:51):
time of watching and I was like, oh, this is where the sniper
is.

Speaker 1 (10:53):
Oh no, there's a whole conflict before where
touchdown got taken out exactlywith the mine and you know, and
I was wrong, because it's it'sway, that's the way, because
Fubai is where we meet AnimalMother.

Speaker 2 (11:10):
Right, right yeah Animal Mother.

Speaker 3 (11:12):
No, no.
I was going to say, well, yeah,I know, and what's interesting
about it is the film, really,and this is the thing I didn't
realize until last night, and Iwas reading how dare you battle?
Am I saying who?

Speaker 1 (11:23):
a who, a yeah, sure, we're all saying it.
Sorry, sorry, sorry, I was inthe comments.

Speaker 2 (11:26):
I was going to use a writer, not a reader.

Speaker 3 (11:28):
No, no, or somebody comfortable with the English
language, frankly, because I'mnot one of those writers.

Speaker 2 (11:35):
Oh yeah, no, no, no, no, no.
Honestly, I lose a littlerespect for writers that can
spell.

Speaker 3 (11:41):
Thank you.

Speaker 2 (11:41):
Thank you.
People that like know grammarreally well, I'm like you know.
I mean, you're a real writer.

Speaker 3 (11:46):
No, no, no, I'm the king of typos and spelling
errors and just being completelyblind to them Like I will
purposely go through some days.
I'll just be, I have time.
I'm going through this one moretime for typos and then somehow
in the first three sentencesSomething's like I miss a two or
an and or like so it's one ofthose right that sneaks in,
there it's, then it's justdebilitating.

Speaker 2 (12:08):
Yeah, yeah, it's not really you know, and we're just
going to take a total aside here, but it's such a weird thing
writing like especiallyscreenplays, because you're not
writing, you're not writing anovel, right, this is the medium
, the ultimate medium, for thisis not print it is people
talking about.
There is this whole subcultureof writers engineer it for
reverse engineer and there's awhole subculture of writers that

(12:29):
will judge you and like if yourshit is not formatted exactly
the way they expect it and thepunctuation is not the right way
and it's not writtengrammatically correct, and like,
yeah, I mean, you know, noteverything needs to be.
You know, you know down home,like Kurt Vonnegut novel under
the names, like not everything.
Like trying to be likeaffecting the south, like
sometimes people just speak alittle bit different, is like

(12:52):
each more to be that subtle.

Speaker 1 (12:54):
Yeah, it's not a mistake, it's how I hear it in
my head.
It's one of my favorite thingsabout the opening of Henry five
is like the fact that they takeout so much of the beginning
because they see it Right.
You know you're right, we seeit and yeah, sure you know.
As a if I go, if I go see theplayer here, the play, I want to
hear it being described, but Ilove the fact that they cut out

(13:15):
most of the opening of it andyou talk about Henry five the
brand on.

Speaker 3 (13:19):
Yeah, it's excellent.
Yeah, it's one of the bestexcellent film so good and he
was 27.

Speaker 1 (13:23):
I think he's the youngest Henry at the RSC ever,
yeah and he goes nominated forbest actor.

Speaker 3 (13:29):
What is his?

Speaker 2 (13:30):
let's hear we are let's talk about.

Speaker 3 (13:33):
Welcome back to Kenneth Branagh podcast but I
mean, his Hamlet is by far thebest it is the one that you
watch.

Speaker 2 (13:40):
You watch his Hamlet.
It is seven and a half hourslong.
Conservatively.
I'm still watching it and Istarted it two years ago exactly
, but it does pay off when youget to the end.
I mean, but back to, you know,the back to the get back to get
a full metal jacket.
It is to.
The first 40 minutes of thisfilm is perfect.
Gene Wilder even said likethere's a famous gene Wilder
quote like that, if he's like,if this movie is stopped at 40

(14:03):
minutes, this is the best filmever made is a perfect and I
completely agree with thatbecause I do think that it loses
a little luster in the last 75%of the movie.

Speaker 3 (14:14):
Yes, I agree.
And the thing is it's like thisis what's great is the story
goes and this is where Kubrickshot himself in the foot, being
so brilliant and the showmankind of, because if you start
with that, how are you going tofollow that story?
And Sergeant Hartman, and whathappened was, you know, that
wasn't supposed to be, erniewasn't supposed to have the role

(14:36):
he was a technical advisor.
They given it to Tim Coleseri.
Yeah right, and he ended upplaying like the gunner.
He's excellent.

Speaker 2 (14:46):
How do you shoot?
How do you shoot women andchildren?

Speaker 3 (14:49):
He's just so much.
He's just don't lead him somuch.
Excellent, but but and it's asad story, but the thing is that
I'm sorry.
So he, he, you know, arleyErnie is a lot of people know
kind of like edged into it andtook it over, started wearing
the uniform and justoutperformed that guy.
And Kubrick, literally, was sotaken with Hartman and

(15:12):
appreciated like this is soentertaining that he said, you
know, rip out half of the firstpart of the script and let's
just put the camera on Ernie andhe so he found this incredible
nugget.
It was so entertaining and thatstory with also incredible
performance by Donofrio, but heshot himself in the foot because

(15:34):
he just got.
He became too sensational andit was because it's like you
can't, you can just watch.
It's like watching a like DonRickles.
It's like you're watching, it'sfunny, it's arresting.
You like him, right, you likehim.
And so when you cut back andnow we're in the second two
thirds of the film, there'snobody to carry that gravitas

(15:58):
after that, right, pull youreyes, you know animal.
Mother is the maybe.

Speaker 2 (16:03):
But he's totally different.
I mean, everyone's ripping offthis like God.
Sorry, go ahead, matt.

Speaker 1 (16:07):
Well, no, I was just going to say it's interesting.
But this is, this is more aboutproduction of it.
So because, remember thatthought is it's interesting
because they shot all of thatlast and, and and.
To me I'm wondering if therewas something you know it's like
well, I've already got it.
You know I've already shot allof the Huey stuff and all the

(16:27):
Fubai stuff and which they allshot in Britain.
I mean, yeah, it's calledKubris Kubris.

Speaker 2 (16:38):
Yeah, but no, no, like the like, I mean he I don't
think it was.
He did improv a lot of it, mostof it, but then he would improv
it and then right down andmaybe like that's the one, like
that's the bit and that's thebit, yes, and that's the.
And that is just you and youwatch him.
You do what you just said.
You like Arley Ernie and, yeah,you like him.

Speaker 1 (17:01):
He's fantastic.

Speaker 2 (17:03):
He's so likeable while he is screaming at someone
in the face, which is againlike that's, that's how casting
works.
So there is online.
You can go to YouTube and Ijust watched it.
His Kubrick's daughter filmed abunch of behind the scenes
stuff.

Speaker 3 (17:17):
Oh last night.

Speaker 2 (17:18):
It's great.
But you can see like rehearsalswhere Arley Ernie is like kind
of 50 percent, like he's notreally yelling, he's kind of
talking and it doesn't work atall.

Speaker 3 (17:28):
Well, you know what Kubrick did, because he,
kubrick's whole thing was thiswhen an actor is weak or they're
complaining about something,that's usually because they
don't know their lines.
And he, what he did with Erniewas he knew that he wasn't a
professional actor and he knewhe would have to be so confident
.
When the cameras on the lightsare on, you say action, it's so
easy for them to keep screwingup.
So he had to make sure thatErnie was so new, every line so

(17:49):
well that he would.
He had him and he would throworanges and tennis balls at him
as he was doing the lines.
And they apparently they didthat like 23 times an hour at a
time at him.
Just repeat the lines, repeatthe lines, repeat the lines.
That was Kubrick's idea.

Speaker 2 (18:04):
What a crazy motherfucker.

Speaker 3 (18:06):
I love it.
I'm not like.

Speaker 2 (18:08):
Can I honestly I ask you, Matt, I ask you as a
producer on films that I do.
Can I do that?
Can I throw?
Can we get a bucket of fruitthat I can throw at actors while
they're doing their lines?

Speaker 1 (18:20):
Sir, I respectfully would like to one know if the
fruit is expired.

Speaker 2 (18:26):
Yes, I mean it has to be fresh fruit expired fruit.

Speaker 1 (18:29):
It's a little soft.
Well, that's true, that's your.
It depends on if you'rethrowing it.
It's if you're throwing it, itcan't be green fruit.

Speaker 2 (18:34):
I can see that it can't be throwing it.

Speaker 1 (18:36):
If you're throwing it at actors, it has to be rotten
fruit because it's soft, but ifit's stunt coordinators, then it
can be ripe, right, right, getthe hell out of it.

Speaker 2 (18:42):
I'll go ahead and give you pairs, no pairs.
We can't do pairs, they're justno one alone likes a pair.

Speaker 1 (18:47):
But to your point you're absolutely right.
It's insane and like it wouldbe, like just a gross
misappropriation and like justdelinquency of my own job as a
producer to allow any of thatkind of behavior.
And yet we know that that wasrampant and we know.
But and then it's so hardbecause you're watching and
you're enjoying.

Speaker 3 (19:07):
Yeah, go ahead.
I listened to Matthew Maudine'shis diary.

Speaker 2 (19:13):
Yeah, the audio.
Yeah, full metal director diaryor something like that.
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (19:17):
They were getting hit .
Hartman, when he slaps him,when he's hitting Joker and
Dinofrio, he's hitting them.
I mean they're getting hit.
Yeah, there's no, can't happenanymore.
Nope, that can't happen.
No, but that's back in the dayand like nobody, you can see it.

Speaker 2 (19:35):
You can see the Matthew Maudine face, because it
looks like a real slap becausehe didn't really expect it and
you can see is like jaw, likeyou can feel it looks like it
looks like a real slap.
It's on the way that a fakeslap is like the head turns and
like the body pitches.
He doesn't move at all.

Speaker 1 (19:50):
He's so shocked you can tell those moments in Rocky,
one in two, where you're like,oh, they connected, oh yeah.
Well, you know what though,when you?

Speaker 3 (19:57):
when you're in the middle of doing that stuff and
you know this is this stuff isbeing this, this stuff is, this
is history right here, and it'smy performance and his
performance.
Right, go ahead, hit me.
Well, I mean, but that's so.

Speaker 2 (20:10):
I will say this is one thing that we've talked
about a lot.
This is like, as a performer, Iwould.
I'm a person that would be likefuck yeah, hit me.
Like if I'm acting like, yeah,hit me, I don't care, it's like
it's okay, it is not the rightdecision.

Speaker 1 (20:22):
I will just straight up say like.

Speaker 3 (20:24):
I would.

Speaker 2 (20:24):
I would do it, but even I would be wrong.
And because it endangers theproduction, because if you
actually get hurt now, you don'tthink about that when you're
performing.
You think about.
I want to be a good performerand I want to give it everything
I can, but that is not theright way to think about it,
because, whatever you know, youknock a tooth loose and now it's
like oh, it's not fun anymore,now I'm missing my fucking tooth
.
You know, it turns very quick.

Speaker 3 (20:44):
Yeah, you know it's an interesting story quickly,
and I won't go up about gettinghit in the face and making it
look realistic, but not reallygetting hit and I don't know why
more people don't do this.
But in the chase, which is ayeah, arthur Penn, I believe
with Marlon Brando, he has ascene where he just gets beat to
hell and he said, instead of hesaid, like why are we faking

(21:05):
this?
He goes why don't we hit me inslow motion, like really hard
across my face, and then we'llspeed it up.
You know, and when you watchthat scene, like it's those,
right, it's connecting hard tohis face, but they just sped the
film up.
However, they hide it.
Yeah, yeah and it's actuallyreally effective and I'm like
God.

(21:25):
Why wouldn't people think to dothat?

Speaker 1 (21:28):
Like now, the closest I can, even it's.
This is so different and yet itstill comes to mind, is when
they sped up film for Gladiatorwith the Tigers.
Oh right, you know, to make itlook like I mean it's different.
I will argue that that.

Speaker 2 (21:41):
So I've not seen that and I don't know that film, but
I would argue the Tigers workbecause it's sort of a
heightened moment and it's alsothe way it is shot Right, it is.
It sort of works because it'scharacter point of view, so it
sort of works.
So when you feel it, I wouldargue that that doesn't work,
because now we're getting supertechnical.

Speaker 1 (21:59):
Here we go.

Speaker 2 (21:59):
Welcome back to a technical film making with.
Steve but it speeds up.
It's going to speed up a lot ofsharpness and a lot of the
noise like in a way that I thinkI will identify, and also your
body doesn't move that well, Istill that's a good point, it's
a hard.
I'd still do a stunt performerand just say be like just you,
do a still do it.
There's a reason why there'sonly a few Bill Irwin's in there

(22:22):
, and also actually I mean also,that's actually also somebody
getting slapped in the face, andwhen we know this from theater,
you can get slapped in the face.
There's ways to do it, you canbe taught to do it.
There are risks to it, butthere are ways to do it so you
can.
These are things that canhappen but again, they have to
be done.
But I'm just saying arguing, inthis scene they did not do that
and you can tell, and I'm notlook, I'm not hitting on the

(22:43):
film.
I think it's fucking awesome,dude, like I think the moment's
incredible.
But you know, like you said,matt, you can't really.
You know you can't really askfor that.
The same way now, cooper, couldI'm sure that some directors
could you know, because what didand what's his name in Joker,
walking Phoenix was like wantedto improv all the scene, the
fight scenes with the stuntperformers, which is fucking
insane.
I mean, come on like brilliantperformers.

(23:06):
That's come on.

Speaker 1 (23:06):
That's insane man Like you know, you know no part
of the reason, you know, aballet is beautiful is because
it's choreographed.
That's right, you know, andI'll never forget.
You know I was doing oh gosh,you know production of Romeo and
Juliet and the fightchoreographer said if I, you
know, and we all know this, thesame background as soon as I go

(23:28):
from worrying about thecharacter to worrying about the
actor, then you haven't doneyour job.
So whatever.

Speaker 2 (23:34):
Sure, yeah, and that's exactly right.
That's a good point.

Speaker 1 (23:37):
That's exactly right and I just love that, and I've
always kind of kept that in theback of my head, and so, anyway,
I break the suspension ofdisbelief, and sometimes you can
tell in films and that's anyway.

Speaker 2 (23:46):
That movie was so real though I will say that's
the argument for the full metaljacket, the the.
The thing that Arley Ernie doeswith his is his beratements are
so specific, right, and souniversally terrible that you
can tell they weren'tcomfortable.
No, right, I mean like no onewas performing this as like, oh,

(24:08):
here's a really the cleverestthing.
There's a lot of times when wedo it as a writer, as we come up
with the most clever version ofsomething yeah, what is the
smartest version of this?
What is the most insultingversion of this for this
character?
His is always like 85 percentright, you know what I mean, but
it's 25 percent wrong and itjust is.
So.
That's what makes it feel real.

Speaker 1 (24:29):
Well, so, so that does make me think.
So it's like they took.
You know, it was Vitaly who wassomeone who had worked with
Kubrick as an actor and thenbecame like an assistant for the
rest of his life.
Yes, you know, and so he was theone doing all those takes with
with him.
And so I want to ask Deanspecifically so as a writer and
looking for, looking for aperformer to give that specific

(24:52):
performance, are you more?
I guess my question is moreabout like I I've chosen these
words because I know they willwork in your mouth and I just
need you to get there, or I'vegiven you a suggestion and you
find where it lives in you.
Well, it depends on the scene.

Speaker 3 (25:11):
OK, depends on the scene.
Yeah, like I mean, for for mymoney, it's case sensitive
because an actor, I like actorsto feel completely free, right,
but at the same time, like youknow, it's like anything.
It's like if you wrote it acertain way, because now that's
the specific reason why I wroteit that way, then you've got to
try and get that and youcommunicate that, you know.

(25:32):
But I mean, I'm frankly, I'malways open to negotiate, like I
mean I've, of course, there's acouple of things that I, you
know, directed that I wrote.
I mean because I was thinkingmyself as a director who writes.
You know, I write, I write likea director and I always find
that like, yeah, I imagine it inmy head, the way I try and

(25:52):
write roles that are that anactor it's would love to perform
.
That's how I think.
However, that actor may show upand the reality of the scene
and the energy in the room andthings might change and they
might be like God.
This just feels awkward to saythis and like I trust that
actor's instinct.

Speaker 2 (26:10):
There's nothing more comforting than whenever you've,
like, created a whole thing andsomebody shows up prepared with
an idea.
That is the most comfortingthing in the entire world.
Well, because you're like hey,I can agree, I can disagree, but
you've brought something to thetable.
What happens nine times out of10 is people show up and barely
are holding on.
They're barely holding onto thething.

(26:32):
In my experience at least,people are like I mean, I just
don't.
I, you know, I don't like to beconfined by the text or I don't
like to rehearse.
In my mind.
Every time I hear is like well,you're not prepared.

Speaker 1 (26:42):
You're not prepared.
Yeah, you're not prepared, andthat's what you were talking
about earlier.

Speaker 2 (26:45):
Yeah, because if you're prepared people that show
up there like this word heredoesn't sit well on my mouth,
and every time I'm like let'sfucking change it.

Speaker 3 (26:52):
Exactly what would work for you, sure?

Speaker 2 (26:55):
Because that's.
That means you have enough ofan insight into what we're
trying to do here and you've putthe work in and you've earned
the opportunity to speak aboutit.
When people are like I just, Ijust, I can't rehearse again
because it's going to blow theauthenticity, in my experience,
that has never worked out well.
I've never had one goodexperience where somebody's told
me that as a performer andtheir performance has outweighed

(27:15):
what was on the page.
It usually is.

Speaker 1 (27:18):
they're unprepared and I've I mean, and then Well,
I think that makes your pointabout what we have been kind of
going around with with thissituation where he stole the
role, if you will, seduced hisway into playing hardman and it
was, he was.
His improvisations were so good, but then Vitaly said this is

(27:39):
what's in the script.
We've taken what you've saidand I have to make you to your
point, dean, so comfortable, andto your point, steve, that I
can get the performance I wantfrom you.
But I'm not going to roll untilI know you're comfortable,
because you think you're.
It's not.
I think you're a writer, youthink you're a fucking writer,
like every single time.
It's like that's what this is.
And he's.

Speaker 2 (27:58):
I mean some of the most iconic lines of all time.
I mean Jesus Christ.
The first 40 minutes are themost court.
It might be the most courtablefilm of all time.
Yeah, speaking of, I would saywhat's, what's, what's.

Speaker 1 (28:10):
Well, that's a good point.
So that does make me thinklet's, because I do.
Maybe we want to look at thisin thirds or you know like we
can even talk about thelocations.
I know.
That's kind of the thing.
This shit was shot all within,like what, 30, 40 miles of
Kubrick's house.
Yeah, and he'd go back home atnight and be with his family.

(28:30):
An abandoned factory.

Speaker 2 (28:32):
Well, he's apparently didn't like flying, or was
afraid of flying or something,so he didn't want to travel
outside London.

Speaker 1 (28:37):
He's at that point in his career and he's just like I
want to do this and I want togo home at night.
You know what?

Speaker 2 (28:43):
Matthew Modi and what you said.
You read his journal earlier.
It's crazy to understand thetimeline of this film.
Because he started, MatthewModi got cast.
He also Kubrick wanted no names, no names.
No one in this film was a name,which I fucking love, yeah.
And they got.
He got cast, got engaged, gotmarried, got pregnant, had a kid
.
The kid turned one year oldbefore production was done.

(29:06):
We're not even talking beforethe film came out, before
production was done.

Speaker 1 (29:10):
Right To August.
That's insane.

Speaker 3 (29:11):
Yeah, no, it's true, you know, and Modi was saying he
was talking about the processto of casting, where they had
10,000 tapes and, like he'sresponsible for Vincent Donofrio
being in the film.

Speaker 1 (29:25):
Yeah, do you tell about that?
Yeah?
So Donofrio was the doorman orthe bouncer at the Hard Rock
Cafe at the time, wherever thatwas, I guess 57th Street I
remember coming to New York whenHard Rock, first of all, still
existed and, second of all, whatwas on 57th and when 57th dude
57th Street, like when I was akid, that was where you wanted

(29:46):
to go.
It was not Times Square.
Times Square was seedy, it wasstill like Urban Cowboy Street.

Speaker 3 (29:52):
Yeah, it was 57th Street, yeah so yeah, oh yeah,
so he was, and he was an actorand he had been in a play with
Maudine or something.
And they saw him outside thethe, the Hard Rock, and he said,
hey, you know what are youdoing?
He goes.
You know, I got this role inthis Kubrick film was a role
they just can't cast and they'rehaving a hard time and maybe
you want to take a look at itand you know, back then making a

(30:14):
tape was like a royal pain inthe ass.

Speaker 2 (30:18):
I mean, you know, this is back when, like a five,
six this is where camcorder islike a backpack.

Speaker 3 (30:23):
Like this is a pain in the assso anyway, he figured out how to
do it and he, of course he, youknow, gave his reading and he's
Vincent Afrio and he got, hegot the role.

Speaker 2 (30:32):
This is so I want to introduce.
I was introduced to VincentAfrio in full metal jacket.
That is the first thing Ibecame aware of him as an actor
and apparently it was for me tobeforehand.
Apparently he was sort of aheartthrob beauty.
Yes, he was an ingenue.
He gained something I don'tknow an insane amount of weight.

(30:55):
Like 70 pounds something crazyto do this film.
And now, now he's a heavier guyas he's acting and still, by
the way, an incredible actor.

Speaker 1 (31:03):
I love it.
It's a real, and you know.
And Matt and a smooth, like helooks good, yeah, he really does
Like he carries it.

Speaker 2 (31:10):
He carries it well.
Yeah, I don't think I'm justimpressed.
No, that's your hell out of methat I was like.
This guy was like not that hewasn't like cast for this, he
became this.

Speaker 3 (31:21):
Yeah, after he was cast and had to maintain it too,
yeah.

Speaker 2 (31:26):
And that motherfucker and Arleigh Ernie are in 40
minutes of a two hour somethingmovie.
Yeah, 40 minutes.
I don't like I can.
I mean I could talk in highdensity to act one of this film.

Speaker 1 (31:39):
Well, I do, and I do, I let's.
I know I'm skipping a lotbecause we can go back, but I
just want to get to the end ofthat 40 minutes and talk about
the night that they are allMarines, that they are about to
be shipped off and Modine is onthe payoff scene, yeah, and he's

(32:00):
on Night Watch.
The flip flop scene, yep, andand just that, all of it, all
three of them, and just the wayit was shot, the stillness of it
it's the drip for me.

Speaker 2 (32:17):
It's the drip the drip sound effect.
Yeah, that for me in the echothrough the tile.
That that's what sets a tone ofthat.

Speaker 3 (32:23):
Yeah, and also it's one of those bold choices.
And this is an interestingstory too, if you don't know it.
It's like that Kubrick wantedthat you know private pile to
have a look on his face thatlooked like it was out of a
horror film and he said I wantyou to watch some Launchini
tapes, whatever it is.
And do you know that Donofrio,on his own, had already had

(32:48):
Launchini movies sent to him?
He was on the same page asKubrick, they were already on
the same page, yeah exactly andlike, and that's another thing
about that scene which is reallyinteresting because it's it's
also part of the theory thatthat film is like a poem not to
sound you know, it's poetic andsparse because Hartman gets shot
in the heart, you know he alsocomes in and he says what is

(33:11):
this Mickey Mouse bullshit.
And what are they singing atthe end?

Speaker 2 (33:15):
You know, you know what I mean.

Speaker 3 (33:17):
There's there's these , there's these things in this
film that make you look at itdifferently, even though it's
almost impossible.
It's very hard to look past thefourth with the first 40
minutes.
But right, yeah, but it's a but.
That scene to drip, that waslike dude, it's so true to drip.

Speaker 1 (33:32):
I mean, and you're absolutely right, it is the poem
.
It's like Rupert Brooke Owen,those guys from World War One,
they're some of my favoritepoets ever and they're talking
about death and they're talkingabout this whole idea of what it
is to be quote immortalized,and yet I'm sitting by a pound
of rubble.
That is my brother, right, youknow and the, the dialectical

(33:57):
tension of that.

Speaker 3 (33:58):
Yeah, absolutely.
Well, you know it's funnybecause and it's funny how that
scene ends, because you knowthis film more than platoon and
platoon Charlie Sheen isarriving, he volunteered, right,
ok, and he's writing to hisgrandmother and you're just
there.
You're there and they're in thebugs and he's being treated
like shit and all that stuff.
Yeah, here I'm getting my headshaved, I'm drafted, I'm at

(34:23):
basic training and I'm thinkingto myself I'm, I would end up
like Vincent Zanoffrio.

Speaker 2 (34:32):
And, yeah, you can't help but put yourself into this
because I mean, look, this issomething in the awareness of
like, at least when I wasgrowing up and where I was
growing up in Missouri, like thedraft was something that was
ever present, you know, becausemy father went through that this
exact draft and was not drafted, like he was one of the numbers
, didn't get called up and like.
So I mean, as many of our youknow like and you think you just

(34:55):
it's a constant.
It was a constant awareness ofmy life and especially at the
time I was like 15, 16, I think,when I saw this, like you know,
you have to register.
At least you know I did.
You have to register for thedraft on your 18th birthday and
I remember doing it in highschool.
You had to fill out the cardand you have to, had to register
and I had to turn it into thecounselor and they put it in.

(35:16):
I don't know if that'sdifferent in every state, but I
did and that's like it's a thingyou're very you watch that and
you're like I mean, these menwere thrust upon thrust into
this and this, this story.
There are a lot, a lot, a lot ofVietnam films.
This one is the most about that.

(35:36):
It is most this is the mostabout the head fuck of the
system that you are put into,regardless of what you mean.
It comes down to the duality ofman or whatever that you know
Matthew Maudine has is like bornkiller or whatever.

Speaker 1 (35:52):
Yeah, I love it.

Speaker 2 (35:54):
Yeah, I think it's just like what the fuck is that
all is?
It's ridiculous for ajournalist to have that.
But that's what it's kind ofabout is because this does
inhabit this kind of duality atthe moment.

Speaker 3 (36:06):
Yeah, I mean you're getting dragged into something
and you're you're gettingdragged into becoming a killer,
you know, I mean that's reallywhat it is.
I mean you're getting draggedinto something and being made a
killer.
I mean I don't know if there'sanything.
I don't know that there's afilm that that takes that on
with the same kind ofspecificity, where it's like

(36:27):
other Vietnam films, you know, Imean I, you know you can go
back to.
I mean I'm I'm not as big a fanof the deer hunter as many
people are.
I like coming home and I don'treally think Apocalypse.
Now, I love the film is reallyabout Vietnam.

Speaker 1 (36:39):
No I really but, but, but hamburger hill is my, is my
, very good, just putting thatout there.

Speaker 3 (36:44):
It's a very good film , yeah, but this film I feel
like, especially when I watch,that when you watch the
beginning you get hypnotized andbrought into the experience
yourself, because it walks youin from the innocence and the
beginning, where you're likeyou're right.
You're ripped from how you'reripped from home.
You know you're ripped fromhome and I, you know you.

(37:05):
Purposely you don't knowanything about these people in
the past, because that's kind ofsentimentalizing it.

Speaker 1 (37:10):
Like, think about it Like there was a scene where
there was a monologue about yeah, here's my, you know my girl
back home, you know like theonly monologue is this movie
which, short of simpsons episode, where he's like this is my
girl and they're doing it's aparody of Apocalypse now, and
he's like, oh, it's a Valentinefor my girl.
And then he gets shot throughthe Valentine's card, which is a

(37:32):
heart, through his heart, youknow, and it's like, yeah,
that's the, that's thesentimentality of it.

Speaker 2 (37:38):
But yeah, I'm not saying.
I mean, I think that you knowthis is you know, honestly, it
is like it.
I totally lost my train ofthought, shit.

Speaker 3 (37:47):
But it gets Sunday.
I feel like the film gets undermy skin more than any other war
film that I've ever seen.
I mean, you can say which oneyou know saving private Ryan.
You want to talk about theopening battle scene?
It's powerful Graphic.
I didn't get walked in frombasic training though, yeah
Right, so I don't know what thehell.
It's a shock.

Speaker 2 (38:06):
And that was my thought actually a minute ago.
Just came back around.
It's like it is, it is moreabout a jerk anymore, yeah, do,
you were never a jerk.
I mean, it's more of this, it'sthis childlike sort of
perception of war where it'slike I mean, and then I think
that it even comes to part acttwo, well, act two and three,
but like when do they go inthere?
And they're like, these areliteral children, like these are

(38:29):
18, 19 year olds, like withguns.

Speaker 3 (38:32):

Speaker 2 (38:33):
Like and they're like .
You know, he's like taking apicture with the dead guy he
just killed.

Speaker 3 (38:37):
I was like and they're like, and then they're
like going in and it feels soimpotent.

Speaker 2 (38:43):
Whenever they like, have the sniper at them.
You know like they're, theseguys that pushed so much
machismo and so much power ofyou and power of Marines down to
my favorite line, I think, ofthe film is you know, marines
are not allowed to die.
You know what I mean Withoutapproval of, like, whatever.

Speaker 3 (39:01):
It's like I can't even say what permission without
permission.

Speaker 2 (39:05):
So you just get shoved down your throat and then
they go to you know the actualwar portion of it and they're
like fucking around with, likeoh you know, to boo coo no, not
to boo coo, like oh no.
And they have two scenes ofthat.

Speaker 1 (39:20):
Yeah, fifteen dollars and they have the.
You know all that.

Speaker 2 (39:23):
My like Joker says earlier, there are two scenes of
negotiating with whores and youknow, or and like you know, no,
but you're right.

Speaker 1 (39:32):
Like of all the things that they were training
for and that gets us to theother.
Like that I mean the, if wewant to go talk about the end of
it.

Speaker 2 (39:40):
I mean, here we have the kids that these.
Oh, and that's what I mean islike the.
I mean I legitimately thinkit's more impotence, even
because when the sniper isshooting in, they're all
watching eight ball get shot.
And then go out and try and gethim is like, and they're like,
they're all terrified, so am Iwatching it.

Speaker 3 (39:57):
Animal mother runs out to go get them, but he
doesn't impotence, right he?
Runs past them and realizeswhere the sniper is, and they
just keep getting shot, and Imean, you know we can't leave
them out there, but impotent,like you said.

Speaker 1 (40:08):
Well and the best thing that he had going for them
.
And this is kind of a weirdthought I'm having.
But it's like you know, afterafter one thing happens, it's an
anomaly.
After a second thing happens,you have an idea, and after a
third thing happens you have apattern.
So you just had the anomaly andthe thing and then it's like
all of a sudden the third guy,who happens to be animal mother,
is the pattern.
That's the only reason I thinkhe lives is because you've

(40:31):
gotten two guys shot.
So he kind of has an idea, butthen the impotence comes across
because he can't do anythingabout it.

Speaker 2 (40:36):
Well, and then again what Dean mentioned earlier,
they end with you know the wholeMickey.

Speaker 1 (40:42):
Mouse song.
Well, I am children and it's a12 year old child.

Speaker 2 (40:46):
that kills them the most, the wealthiest and raptor
man nation in the world is theone that, man after man, is the
one that ends up shooting.
And that's intent.
All of that is intentional.
I was just going to talk aboutraftor man.
You're right.

Speaker 3 (40:59):
And that's so important because remember, at
the beginning, when he's over atthe paper and the editor says
almost as like, kind of like aslider or whatever it is it's a
total thing, Well, he did.
He goes like all right, andyou're, you want to go, and to
the ship he goes, then you'regoing to take raftor man with
you and you're responsible forhim, right, right, and who ends
up saving?

Speaker 2 (41:18):
Yeah, he's like the little brother, but then you
watch him be actuallyenthusiastic about it, where
nobody else is like.
You watch even animal motherwho you are supposed to be the
most like dastardly fighter here.
Stop, and he's not, is like,and then now you see this kid
like oh fuck, I did it, you know, like and it's like kind of
it's, it takes the the wind outof you, you know for a second.

Speaker 3 (41:40):
Yeah, like damn, because he goes like this
earlier, because you're like hedoes the, it's classic, he does
the thing where he was like yeah, you know, this is not I'm
behind the camera, but like, ifI have to put it down and I got
to pick up the rifle, I got topick up the rifle.

Speaker 2 (41:52):
So in your head is the audience You're going.

Speaker 3 (41:54):
Oh he's getting killed.

Speaker 1 (41:54):
Yeah, oh he's getting shot the way that when he did
those, those interviews wereback and forth and you get to
know these, you know theseactors.
There are these characters.
You get to know them a littlebetter.
And then the fact that theyjust had it like the only one
who had a gun, just likestraight up strapped to his
interview, was fricking Rafterman, and you're like you're the

(42:16):
only one who hasn't had any ofthis training.
That's right, it is oh and yeah.
And you're like, oh, your assis going to get handed to you.
But he.

Speaker 3 (42:24):
He ended up saving Joker and he goes oh my God, I
killed, I saved you.

Speaker 2 (42:28):
He said he's like I think the thing that's not
exciting about that are notexciting.
The thing that is sad andaffecting about that is not that
he did it, it's his reaction towhat he's yes, you know that
and that's that's sort of youknow it is.
I will again say, as far asVietnam films go, I like how

(42:48):
clumsy the second half is and Ihave to imagine that was the
intention, because Kubrick was agenius and I think that this is
what he wanted it to be.
But the first half of the filmis a different movie.
It is just so much it's amazing.
Like you said, it walks you inthrough the innocence.
But the second half Platoon, Iwill say, I think does it better

(43:12):
.
I think it does the same thingbut deeper with a deeper
heartfelt hit.
Like I'm not really criticizingthe movie because it's not a
game.

Speaker 1 (43:24):
No, exactly it is different things.

Speaker 2 (43:27):
This is Kubrick's Vietnam movie and unfortunately
that is something we have tolike.
Vietnam movies are a thing.
It's like you know every.
It's like every boomer that hashad got money is going to make
a movie about World War Two.
You know, that is just a thing,that is like what they grew up
with.
Or they're going to make aVietnam movie Like that just
kind of is what it is.
Or Star Wars, yeah Well, orboth.

Speaker 1 (43:48):
Most of them both.

Speaker 2 (43:50):
But, you know, like it just kind of, and so when I
look at the last half of this, Isee something that I find very
interesting for its clumsiness,because I don't think the film
making is clumsy, I think thecharacters are clumsy and I
think the story is really clumsyand I think that's intentional,
but it doesn't affect you asmuch as Act One does.

Speaker 3 (44:09):
Yeah, interesting.
You know, reading the MatthewMaudine book he says that one of
the running things as part ofthe production was Kubrick
constantly asking him has hethought about he goes?
I don't know how I want to endthis.
He didn't know how he won.

Speaker 1 (44:27):
Right.

Speaker 3 (44:28):
Right, because in the book the short timers, which is
based on by Gustav Hasford,joker gets killed and he didn't
want to end it that way.
He didn't think, yeah, they gotlike a huge fight about it.
They got into a fight about it,and then he had the other guys
in the trailer like yeah, hebrought in the other and and

(44:49):
Arles Howard had a couple ofthem in there and he was like,
yeah, we're talking about theending.
I don't know if you thoughtabout it at all.
You know he says to him and hesaid I don't and I haven't, I
didn't get to the part wherethey, where they figured it out.
You know, right, figured it out.
But you know it's intentional.
But I also wonder, you know, itis possible for somebody to get
lost in the weeds.

(45:09):
You know, even a greatfilmmaker.
You know, I mean, because itdoes feel it's like he, it's
like he's such a fine craftsmanthat he could take a scenario
and he would craft it toperfection, I'm like he would
find the way to make it.
He would mine it and shoot ituntil he found the way to make
it interesting, affecting,fascinating.

(45:30):
And that's because he was agreat craftsman, like when I was
watching it last night, becauseI you know to speak of platoon,
because I have to say platoon,which I also had, just by chance
, had watched recently, wow, youknow, you know the story.
I mean it came out before, kindof like when platoon came out
on, when they were yeah, theyhad to have a serious when they
knew platoon was coming out.
There was a serious meeting onthe set where people were like

(45:50):
real, of full metal jacket.
They had like a huddle, becausethey were really concerned
because like this is going torip the the energy out of this,
so we have to.
They had to wait till thesummer of 87, right to get the
thing out.
So it was a summer movie and itended up making what?

Speaker 2 (46:03):
$120 million and made 138.
So it did well comparable.

Speaker 3 (46:09):
Platoon, I do think I mean what what that does is
it's kind of more of thecelebration of the soldier.

Speaker 2 (46:16):
Yes, yes, right, and it brings you into the right.

Speaker 3 (46:20):
It brings you into the, into the thick.
You feel the bugs, and it'smade by a man who was there.

Speaker 2 (46:25):
Yeah, absolutely, and you get that and that and you
feel that.
That's my real argument.

Speaker 1 (46:30):
Full metal jacket is as cold as the shinier like
metal jacket isn't like you, youknow it's because there's not a
palm tree.
That's real.
All those palm trees werebought and brought in Right.
Like there is a picture asversion of this and to me, so
like I'll go off on a tangenthere for a second because there
is an.
We always talk about theuncanny valley about humanity.

(46:54):
When I see something that isn'treal about a person, I'm like
there's an uncanny valley.
There is an uncanny valleyabout the environment in this
movie, like in all of it, howbeautifully perfect the first
half is and how messy and weakthe second part is.
It is uncanny because it's notrealism, it's naturalism, and so

(47:16):
you're looking at it from apoint of they should feel real,
but it's not quite real, it'snot, but everybody's natural and
so it's.
I'm simultaneously having thisexperience of how heartbreaking
it is and yet it's.
It's keeping me at a certaindistance with its pinky.

Speaker 2 (47:33):
You know, and it's saying you know what I mean.
I think they're too different.
I mean, I do think that both,where it's platoon says screw it
yeah, yeah, yeah.
Both have value.
Exactly what I'm saying aboutall of your stones platoon,
right, it feels like the personon the ground, because full
metal jacket feels like sort ofan assessment of what happened.

(47:54):
It was children we sent in toplay, you know, and it to fight
and it's like but their chesspieces and it's brutal when they
die, but it's not.
The scope of it is different.
Like I take out of full metaljacket the terror of the draft
and being thrust into a war.

(48:14):
I take out of platoon thehorror of a terrible jungle war.

Speaker 3 (48:20):
Right.

Speaker 2 (48:21):
Yes, they're similar but slightly different.

Speaker 1 (48:24):
And that's, and it's in that Right, having that point
of view, those different pointof views, are so important,
right?
Because, like you, if you copyone person, you're a copyist,
you copy two people, you're adisciple.

Speaker 2 (48:35):
Well, and I will say that neither three people or
more.

Speaker 1 (48:38):
You're an artist.

Speaker 2 (48:38):
Yeah Well, and neither of them are.
Are gore born Right?
They don't want to have thedefinitive view.

Speaker 1 (48:45):
They're not saying this, but they're both correct,
they're both real, they're bothbeautiful, right, but to your
point, they're coming at it fromdifferent points.
Well, when I think about andlook, we got a little tune at
some point.

Speaker 2 (48:55):
But when I think about full tune, I think about
the loss of people you careabout, right, individual,
individual relationships.
When I think about full metaljacket, I think about drill
sergeant demeaning and I thinkabout the impotence.
I don't know.
I've come up with that wordtoday, so we're going with it,
we're going with it.
We're going to be behind thatwall as the snipers.
There are none of them knowingwhat to do.

Speaker 3 (49:16):
And that.

Speaker 2 (49:16):
I also empathize with of being like what the fuck
would I?
Do I can't do anything I don'tknow what to do is like, if I
need a decision, I make you knowit's going to get them, my
friends killed Like it just did.
Like that's what it sympathizewith.
Those are very, very different,you know, like the fear of
versus the loss of, I guess tosome degree, but without being
able to find it better.

Speaker 3 (49:37):
Yeah, I mean it's funny, as you say that I mean I
always remember.
One of the things that reallystuck with me watching it again
was when private cowboy has tobecome the squad leader and you
can feel like he's like ah, Idon't know yeah.

Speaker 2 (49:52):
And he's struggling.
He's struggling.
He's talking to Murphy, whichis Kubrick, by the way.
Murphy's on the other.
I love that.
No way, I didn't know that.

Speaker 3 (50:00):
Yeah, yeah, trying to get you a tax, whatever he says
.
Yeah, I'll do the best we canwith the tax.

Speaker 1 (50:05):
No success on the tax , no success on the tax.

Speaker 3 (50:07):
But I'm looking there , I'm like that was happening
constantly.
People were getting put incharge.
They had no idea what directionto go in, where the hell to go,
and now they had lives.
They had these guys' lives intheir hands and he keeps calling
for backup because he doesn'tknow what the hell to do.
He doesn't have an answer andI'm like that, right there when
I felt that I was like, oh myGod, can you imagine?

(50:29):
You don't know where to go,where to turn you don't know
what the hell is going on, youknow.

Speaker 1 (50:34):
Yeah, and there's no the fact that he's prepared, but
he's never been of that rank,and so this is your first moment
.

Speaker 3 (50:45):
And he was right.
He said you don't go in there,he goes to Sniper.
I've seen these situations amillion times.
I've been trained.
I've been trained you don't goin there.
They're drawing us in to knockus off, one at a time.

Speaker 1 (50:54):
And he was right, yeah.

Speaker 3 (50:57):
But he gets pulled in .
Because what's this?
Because an animal, mother goesand he runs and then he
identifies where the Sniper is.

Speaker 2 (51:05):
I'm not sure I believe him, though, when he
says the phrase like.
I've seen this a million times.
I don't think he has.
I think he's justifying it, butyes, he is right ultimately.

Speaker 3 (51:14):
But that is, but that's a good point Because,
you're right, it doesn't reallyring of like.
I've seen this a million times.
Yeah, you're right.

Speaker 1 (51:20):
It doesn't really ring true.
No, because you still see hisinnocence and you know, and just
to kind of overshare here, he,you know is.

Speaker 2 (51:28):
I've hit the mic a third time.
James the producer.
James the producer is cringingright now and I'm going to hear
about this later.

Speaker 1 (51:41):
But the so to overshare is looking at these
decisions and just knowing whatwe've kind of all been talking
about and this kind of speaks towhat you mentioned earlier with
your dad.
And you know this was somethingI grew up.
I did not see this movie untillater, but I grew up in a house

(52:01):
where we didn't that the war wasnot talked about, and my dad I
didn't know much about hisservice until maybe 10 years ago
and I've slowly learned more.
But there was the brief thingto tie this into.
What happens to Cowboy is.
My dad was on a base in FortWachuka, arizona, and he I don't

(52:26):
remember what his rank was, buthe ends up in the I want to say
, the captain's quarters with mymom at the time and my mom at
the time.
I was not born with the womanthat would become my mom.
I don't know how to phrase that.

Speaker 2 (52:39):
That's sounds great when you say it like that.
You know the my mom at the time.

Speaker 1 (52:42):
That's yes, my mom at the time and who is?

Speaker 3 (52:45):
the woman who would be my mom?

Speaker 2 (52:46):
Yes, both of those sound really good.
We should just click those onand send them to your mom.
Yes, perfect.

Speaker 1 (52:52):
She's a happy mother's day.
So is is the fact that you knowmy, my mom and dad were newly
married, whatever right, andthey were.
My dad was of a certain rank,but he ends up staying on the
captain's quarters or at thehigh ranking quarters, not
because he was promoted butbecause they all ran out like

(53:14):
they were getting drafted andkilled at such a rate that my
dad was moving up into quartersthat fast to make room for
people coming through.
On the draft.
And yeah, and so like and how doyou, how do you digest that,
how do you respond to that?
And it's just like you just do,and I realize that's why you

(53:37):
know I don't, I wouldn't talkabout this film with my dad.
I think as a younger, moreaggressive son I probably would.
But in this way I'm like, letme just take the experience of
something like platoon, which ispersonal, and full metal jacket
, which is what I think we'vealready kind of said, more of
operatic or poetic, and use thatlanguage as an, as a way to

(53:59):
open up if he wants to talkabout it, because I will never
forget and this circles back towhat you said about the opening
of what is it 1994 or was it 94?
No, that was Forrest Gump.
What's the one I'm thinking ofwith?

Speaker 3 (54:15):
Spielberg and 98?
That's saving private, savingprivate.

Speaker 1 (54:21):
Thank you.
And I remember one summer I waspreparing or repairing an
engine on a boat with an old,surly dude and I had just seen
it and I thought I was like,yeah.
I know everything about the warand I mentioned it to him and he
just shut me down so hard.
He was like I mean, I don'tremember what he said, but it

(54:43):
was maybe six words, but what Iheard was you stupid kid, you
have no idea, you never will.
Don't talk about it.
I'm glad you saw what you saw.
That was for you, not for me.
Shut up and get back to work.
And I did.
But I took that and this wasall before I then was able to

(55:06):
understand that my dad had gonethrough some stuff.
And so, watching this movieagain recently, I take just a
little bit that I know of, likethat Fort Wachuka example that I
gave you, and recognize thecowboy moment of how fast things
were happening.
And they're happening muchfaster than the human you know

(55:29):
like we can evolve.
There's a reason why evolutiontakes so long.

Speaker 3 (55:32):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (55:33):
You know, intelligence is intelligence,
but wisdom takes forever.
And there there is no wisdom,in that moment of I can't go in.
And then that's why cowboy issimultaneously, simultaneously
correct with animal mother.
Right, animal mother is notwrong.
You're also like yeah, go.
And he's like because he's in,he's going to save his friends.
He's not wrong, no, but neitheris cowboy, sorry.

Speaker 3 (55:57):
I just know that's a really good point, yeah.

Speaker 2 (56:00):
Can we talk about some technical Kubrick stuff?
Yeah, because you know, likethe technical Kubrick is like
the thing I love, this movie Ithink embodies and again, we're
really talking about the first40 minutes because I think it.
I think the first 40 minutes ofthis is the most Kubrick style
film, except maybe 2001.

Speaker 3 (56:20):
Sure, oh yeah, the most symmetry.

Speaker 2 (56:23):
No, no, no, this is the military form.

Speaker 3 (56:25):
It's kind of perfect, everything's in order.
So you've got all these greatopportunities to have for
symmetry and for tracking shotsthat go down this, right down
the line, right down the center,you know, and you've got this
great weird like mechanicalperformance by Arlie Ermey,
where he's my.
You know everything about it islike a perfect kind of, like
you said, it is kind of thequintessential Kubrick style

(56:49):
film, the first 40 minutes.

Speaker 2 (56:50):
Yeah, right, yeah, and then it totally debauches
from that.
But I mean he has a backgroundin a documentary, that's how you
got started.
So that feels like again twosort of different dichotomies of
film.
I do think that you know I loveStanley Kubrick.

Speaker 1 (57:06):
I really do.
I do too, I think we all do.

Speaker 2 (57:08):
I'm a big fan.
Oh yeah, Big fan.
I think this one always holds aspecial place for me because it
has both of them.
It does feel like the twoKubrick's.
It feels like the first 40minutes are perfect.
They just are.
I just don't know.
I mean, if you just stop thereand it's just a short movie, I

(57:28):
think it's the best movie ever.

Speaker 1 (57:30):
You get the mathematics of Mozart and then
the passion of Beethoven.

Speaker 2 (57:32):
It is, it is Mozart, it is that short punchy, perfect
it is.
I don't think you could changea thing about it, like I really
don't think you could have anynotes on it, like they're just,
it just is perfect.
The second half is moreBeethoven, which, again, like to
quote you is like, but it is inmy mind Many people would agree

(57:55):
is perfect.
I would say it's a little bitlong and a little bit.
You know, yeah, it has a pointof view, but it isn't.
It isn't crystallized fully, itis mostly crystallized.

Speaker 1 (58:05):
I would say, is there a moment outside of the big
shock moments like we know withthe?
You know obviously in thebathroom, and I will say, just
the moment that he comes in withhis short sleeves and it's the
first time we've seen him withshort sleeves.

Speaker 2 (58:21):
Yeah, it means him so much.

Speaker 1 (58:23):
It's so weak.

Speaker 2 (58:24):
I was like oh, that's back in your bunks and you're
like you have no authority inthis moment.

Speaker 3 (58:29):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (58:30):
No, I just wanted to say is there.

Speaker 1 (58:31):
Is there a moment that you're like you have no
authority in this moment?
Is there a subtle moment that,especially on these re-viewings,
that especially any of ourlisteners who obviously have
seen it and maybe we're like gosee it again is something that
you have missed until this?
Recent re-watching that waseither huge, small or just
something that's kind of stuckwith you, since that maybe
didn't hit you earlier.

(58:52):
You know, I don't know.
Dean is there?

Speaker 3 (58:54):
I'm trying to think.
I think it was Well.
I think the thing that that Ituned into was the fact that the
film much like how Kubrick doesbecause he's a stylist like
it's just the same way.
Eyes Wide Shut is kind of alsoa dream.
The streets are too wide, thenothing is accurate, right,

(59:19):
everything is kind of seems offand it's like you were saying,
the second half it feels off orit feels weird or it feels
artificial.
But I'm like I do see aconsistency from the first 40
minutes through the end, whereit is part of that.
It is this poem, this craftedkind of poem that takes you,

(59:46):
that lands you at the rightplace.
Now, whether or not, again, thequestion could be was that
intentional?
Was he inspired by thatdecision?
I don't know, but I don't think, because, think about it, we
really only see one sniper.
He distills it down to a sniper, a female, and it's kind of

(01:00:07):
like it's so simple.
He distills it down to a child,to a child right, exactly.
And I feel like that, rightthere, tells me that there was a
simplicity that he was goingfor there.
And that's what I noticed.
I was like, oh wait, a minute,this is a very specific take on

(01:00:28):
the Vietnam story that is unlikeanything we've seen.
Again, it's from a guy whowasn't there and it's from an
observer's point of view, eventhough, watching it, I mean,
like anybody, you get pulledinto it.
But I think that's what Inoticed when I was like.
I was like, oh wait, a minute,there's a cleanliness to this, a

(01:00:49):
singularity through this thatis simpler than and that's what
he was going for and whetherit's actually effective or as
effective as platoon it's.
The thing is it's like applesand oranges, but I think that's
the thing that I noticed.

Speaker 1 (01:01:04):
Oh, that's cool that's great, yeah, and that
sinew that connects it.

Speaker 3 (01:01:08):
Yeah, it boils down to a child and they start, and
it starts as children.

Speaker 1 (01:01:12):
It starts with children and it ends with one
child.

Speaker 3 (01:01:15):
Yeah, it's the tragedy of it all, or the
children, I mean, that's reallywhat it is, yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:01:21):
Oof, wow, on that happy note, steve, I would say
on this reviewing what wassomething for you that felt more
poignant or stood out to you,or something you had never
noticed.

Speaker 2 (01:01:37):
You know, there's one line that always stands out to
me, and it stood out again onthis, watching and says, like I
will teach you, it feels likethe one of everything that the
drill sergeant is doing.
I forget the drill sergeant'sname.

Speaker 3 (01:01:52):
Hartman, sergeant Hartman, yeah, sergeant.

Speaker 2 (01:01:54):
Hartman.
But everything he's doing islike that's the one time he's
like you will learn, I willteach you.
And it's in that weirdKubrickian super low angle kind
of POV thing and that's the onethat always stands out because
it is the one crack of humanitythat I find in that whole thing,

(01:02:17):
you know it's the one that's agood point.
Yeah, it's the one line thatalways stood out to me.
I will teach you.

Speaker 3 (01:02:25):
I will teach you.
You know my Tessa, mygirlfriend there's also a writer
and she said wait a minute.
She said he's doing his job.
Right, Hartman's doing his job.
They're about.
Because I said, how much moreaggressive can you get than
somebody hiding behind in it?
Because this is urban warfare.

(01:02:47):
It's not the same as that, butas hiding behind a bunch of
bricks trying to kill you, he'sgiving you everything up until
that point to break you downcompletely.
And she said, like that's thetragedy of this, is that like he
has to do that, because whatthey're about to walk into is a
thousand times worse.
Right, yeah?

Speaker 2 (01:03:06):
absolutely, but that's a good point.
I will teach you.
I will teach you, yeah, forsure.

Speaker 1 (01:03:10):
And also it's that you know, and just the big
theater school thing here it'slike we all know that the good
teacher will break you down, butonly a great teacher can break
you down and build you back up.
That's right.

Speaker 2 (01:03:23):
I only have one thing here we have covered in my
notes, oh shit, and that is theyhad many production issues.
Obviously, the production wenton for a super long time.
Sure, but the one that I foundthe most interesting apparently,
in one of the Vietnam battlesequences, an entire family of
rabbits was killed by anexplosion.
What?

(01:03:43):
I did not know that, andKubrick was a big animal lover,
so he shunt down productionafter that.
Is it really Really?
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (01:03:52):
Oh, no, well, and then they went back and you know
that was they re-filmed it andcalled it Watership Down.

Speaker 2 (01:04:01):
Oh, don't do that, you're welcome.
Yes, don't do that, that'sright.
Happy hour flicks everybody, ohman.

Speaker 1 (01:04:08):
This is why we pour the cocktail.

Speaker 3 (01:04:10):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:04:11):
I guess, or Peter Cottondale.

Speaker 2 (01:04:13):
This cocktail was very good.
I really appreciate it.
This was great.

Speaker 1 (01:04:16):
Jelly donut the jelly donut, jelly donut Dude this
and I said this to Steve earlier, but we were off air.
But that jelly donut cheers, bythe way.

Speaker 3 (01:04:24):
Cheers, cheers, cheers, cheers.

Speaker 1 (01:04:27):
That jelly donut like ASMR listening to someone drink
on.

Speaker 2 (01:04:33):
I was about to say you have to drink because you're
superstitious.

Speaker 1 (01:04:35):
Yes, it's, I am totally.
It's Matilda.
And it's the chocolate cakescene in Matilda where they just
plow them with the chocolatecake and it's so disturbing.
But in that moment it's allabout the grotesqueness of the
chocolate being piled on thechild, Whereas this is one

(01:04:56):
little jelly donut.

Speaker 3 (01:04:58):
Oh yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:04:59):
And that jelly donut leads to the pain and the piling
on gomer pile of everybody else.

Speaker 2 (01:05:05):
Anyway, they're paying for it.

Speaker 3 (01:05:07):
You eat it, you eat it, yeah, and he's got to sit
there and eat the donut, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:05:12):
I mean how humiliating.
I mean, look, I've playedsports in like competitive
environment and that is what?
Because that is how it is run.
Yep, that resonated to mebecause that is the kind of shit
that happens.

Speaker 1 (01:05:24):
What's the same thing that happens early on with the
terrible but beautiful butterrible John Wayne impression
that continues on.

Speaker 3 (01:05:32):
Oh yes, who said that ?

Speaker 1 (01:05:34):
You know, and it's just like oh well, everybody's
about to suffer because of youGo ahead.

Speaker 3 (01:05:39):
No no no, no, it's interesting that he does that.
I was like I was thinking aboutthat.
Like that Joker does that Right, like the balls to do that,
what is?

Speaker 2 (01:05:46):
that quote from I don't.

Speaker 3 (01:05:48):
I've never looked it up, but it's like I don't know.

Speaker 2 (01:05:51):
Is that you?
Is it me?
Is that a real?

Speaker 1 (01:05:54):
I think it's.
I think it's from, is it?
Oh gosh, he does it twice.

Speaker 2 (01:05:58):
Yes, he does it twice in the film Right.
Is that you, John Wayne?
Is that me?
It can be real.

Speaker 3 (01:06:05):
Well, I guess that's you.
Oh well, what it is is, I guessit's some kind of yeah, I mean
it's obviously I don't know whatit's from, but it's a mockery
of the machismo, and I guesslike, but I mean, god the balls
to say that.
I mean it says a lot about thatcharacter, you know.
I mean, like, think about that.
You're like, wow, the bobbing.

(01:06:25):
Yeah, is it smart to say, wasit?

Speaker 1 (01:06:27):
you know it's not, but he's also the one to live to
tell the story.
Yeah, you know, so is that?
Yeah, is it the idiocy, thenaivete, the balls, the whatever
you know, or just the?
Well, I can't help myself.
I don't have a paradigm tounderstand how, what, the
appropriate response is yeah, Imean it's not too dissimilar to
Pyle's reaction when he'ssmirking the whole time.

(01:06:53):
Yes, that's right.

Speaker 3 (01:06:54):
Because it's like.

Speaker 1 (01:06:55):
I can't help myself, I don't know, and it just I mean
the difference between Pylegetting piled on because I am
not calling him his real nameand, or, you know, Joker.
Same thing, not getting piledon but giving given
responsibility.
Yeah, and then how do werespond to the responsibility
we're given?
Or how do we respond to thewaiver's shadow?

(01:07:15):
I didn't know, they stackedshit back, right yeah.
But I want to say for me one ofthe things and this is more
technical than it is beautifullyphilosophical that you guys
went into, that I did not oh, Ihate to say this, Did not track,
was how the in this veryconfined barracks they used that

(01:07:40):
the tracking was just constant,constant and slow, methodical.
And then when you get into thefield it's not dissimilar, the
what you're looking at isdissimilar, but there are so
many very similar slow,methodical, low, angled, right
on the floor tracking shots, andthen it's, and then they bring
it up at the end where you watchthem walk from left to right

(01:08:05):
singing Mickey Mouse, and thenimmediately at the end they're
walking right to left.
And that's a whole other thingwhere, you know, in a Western
society you read left to rightand so in a film you can look at
the celluloid of it andunderstand that most movies, if
you're in this drop.

Speaker 2 (01:08:19):
Look at the celluloid .
I just need to make sure I'mfiling this away appropriately
for archives.
I'm just.

Speaker 1 (01:08:28):
I'm just trying to do you.
Do you write when you said whenyou're on a podcast with Matt?

Speaker 2 (01:08:33):
No, I just want to make sure you're like out there
like looking at the celluloid.

Speaker 1 (01:08:36):
Oh yeah, yeah, Personally, like straight up,
like I got it.
Yeah, with one eye, I'm rightup on it.

Speaker 2 (01:08:43):
Matt.
He's rigged himself a littlewheel in front of an X-ray
screen and he's just like alittle tiny magnifying glass in
his apartment cranking a wheel,that's right, yes, yes, I have
no room for that in a stool,that is.

Speaker 1 (01:08:58):
That is a New York apartment, but but from that
idea it's like you walk left toright and things feel resolved
Right.
When you walk right to left,it's it.
Things are unresolved.
When you go from away fromcamera to towards camera,
there's aggression.
When we talked about this onanother, I don't want to.
Well, maybe we did, who knows,but it's like in some.

(01:09:18):
And then if you walk away fromcamera or walk away from the
foreground of the background,it's a resolution.

Speaker 2 (01:09:26):
All those are Peter Brooke.
Yeah, it is, and that's mypoint.

Speaker 1 (01:09:30):
It's Peter Brooke, you nailed it.
That's exactly where I wantedto go.
So we're looking at the emptyspace here and I want to say
that there is a language that heintroduced that I think Kubrick
just kind of allows himself toplay in, because he's moving
from the upper left hand side tothe lower right hand side and
doing back and forth, and so hehe does that for this entire

(01:09:51):
tracking shot of you know MickeyMouse, at the very, very end,
where he's just tracking one wayand he slowly tracks back the
other, but he's messing withwhat is resolution and what's
confusion.
And it's very, peter Brooke,that's exactly what he's doing.
And and here I am getting, youknow, called out for celluloid.

Speaker 2 (01:10:10):
I would argue that a human is more.
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (01:10:14):
But all I wanted to say was the one thing that I
didn't, and I that this, thismost recent time, really stood
out to me was the echoing of thesame movements in the barracks
as in the field.
And then we actually see itthat one time we see the
documentarians, and what arethey doing?
They're at a low angle, justmoving right to left, watching

(01:10:37):
these guys, which would, youknow, be left to right, and I
just, I don't know, there wassomething about it that felt.
Well, that goes back to whatyou were saying, dean, unifying
the two, whereas one felt likethe Mozart versus Beethoven, as
I said earlier.
And then here it is, there'sthat unifying thing in it.
I, that's, that's all I wantedto say.

(01:10:58):
That's not, I'm not trying toget it.
I love it when Steve gives methat smirk because he's just
digging into me.
He doesn't have to say a thingfor those of you can't see him.
It is a beautiful smile.
It is like Jack Nicholson, afantastic Joker smile.
But instead of being Batman, Iam totally in Dick Tracy right
now, so I am in the wrong comic.

Speaker 2 (01:11:18):
So this is the thing If we don't say anything, dean,
you'll just he's going, you'rejust going now we're in Dick
Tracy.
Let's go after this oh yes.

Speaker 3 (01:11:28):
But where are we going after that?
And so, archie, come on now.

Speaker 1 (01:11:32):
Yeah.
So I mean Archie Connix is agreat way to go, because then
we're going to be right intoWorld War 2 or two.

Speaker 2 (01:11:37):
We don't have any longer for this podcast.
No, no, no.

Speaker 1 (01:11:40):
So we're going under here and so, which actually
makes me think of the very, veryend, and we've already kind of
mentioned her, but and we'vealso talking about the fact that
Rafter man kills her, you know,or you know, it says I saved
you Down Right it gets her down.
I saved you, but then Joker hasto do the thing.
In the original script it wasAnimal Mother and he and he is

(01:12:01):
supposed to take her head off,and I just wanted to say, like
at the, this was the last thingthat really caught me was when
she was, when they're like oh,she's praying and she's, and
then later at the end, she justsays kill me, kill me, kill me.
I don't remember that affectingme the way it did this time,
where I was like I don't knowwhat, just just just shoot her

(01:12:21):
to shoot her.
I don't want to hear it anymore.
Um, I don't know, that was justsomething that.

Speaker 3 (01:12:28):
I'll tell you, I was in that moment last night and I
don't want to now like retcon it, but I did.
I did think why wouldn't AnimalMother just shoot her?
Like what the hell?
Like they're standing therelooking at her.
Why, why wouldn't they?
Just?
They would do it anyway.
Like, like.

Speaker 2 (01:12:46):
I don't.
I think the implication is theyall talk a big game and they
all possess a machismo, but theyultimately don't have the
follow.

Speaker 3 (01:12:54):
That's it Given.
That's the step.

Speaker 2 (01:12:56):
Given the moment to think you can't give them the
edit against the end, where it'sthe Mickey Mouse Club.

Speaker 1 (01:13:01):
I think that's.

Speaker 2 (01:13:02):
I think that is the message.

Speaker 3 (01:13:03):
At least that's what I take.
Well, when you're staring, whenyou're looking into the face of
somebody and can you pick upthe gun and put them out, Well,
and it's again like you know ananimal mother from the first
time you meet.

Speaker 2 (01:13:15):
him is very much in everyone's face and like right
right up in and presentinghimself as being the toughest,
and everyone like thinks he'sthe toughest.
I think that just is like youknow.

Speaker 1 (01:13:25):
I think that's that is my first memory of Adam
Baldwin too.
Like was his introduction ofanimal as Animal Mother.
I did see the bodyguard, whichis beautiful, but it is that
there's an aggression to him.
When you first meet him, youthink he's going to be the next
guy.
You realize now he's justanother.
Yeah, totally yeah another oneof the boys who's just I don't

(01:13:48):
know what's happening out here,right, you know, but anyway.
So I guess, steve, to wrap thisup, I think we know the answer,
but I want to ask each of us,you know, start with you does
this movie hold up?

Speaker 3 (01:14:02):
Yes, there we go.
I believe it does.
Yeah, yeah, because of thisconversation makes me want to
watch it again.

Speaker 2 (01:14:10):
Same, exactly Same.
I like I just watched it thismorning and, yeah, I would watch
it again right now Like, it'sthe Kubrick superpower.

Speaker 3 (01:14:17):
See the sweet platoon , outstanding film.
And you can argue one or theother.
I don't really feel likewatching it again.

Speaker 2 (01:14:24):
It's got that distance it does.
It has the distance where youcan be an observer and don't
have to dig in too deep.

Speaker 1 (01:14:30):
I can go as deep as.

Speaker 2 (01:14:31):
I want yeah, yeah, yeah, you can kind of choose,
that's it.

Speaker 1 (01:14:34):
Right.

Speaker 3 (01:14:34):
Right, I guess.

Speaker 1 (01:14:35):
Right, that's a great point.
Yeah, I mean, I'll answer yesand I think I think it's exactly
what we're kind of talkingabout is the distance allows me
to be an observer, be aparticipant?
you know and we can, you know,talk about other Kubrick films
on this as well, but thisparticular one, such a personal
war and such a justreverberations throughout

(01:14:58):
culture.
And then he presents it in sucha way that is both about the
dehumanization and also theimpersonalization, where we can
go in and empathize with youknow cowboy or you know animal
mother or, of course, pile and,and then also just look at the,

(01:15:21):
just look at it.
We can go be in it or we can golook at it, we can go watch it
or just look at it, right.

Speaker 2 (01:15:26):
One quick question I have for you guys, and this is
literally got to be the lastthing Is it In today's Hollywood
, is this classified as a comedy?

Speaker 1 (01:15:37):
There's a reason why Ben Stiller made a sequel,
because I think made a sequel,sir.
Oh well, not necessarily asequel, but Tropic Thunder.
He goes in and does, and thenwhat's the tagline?
For Thunder gets some.

Speaker 3 (01:15:51):
Oh, ok, right, Straight from the gun.
I mean, I'm just, saying but no, but no to everything anymore
is like, at least in this comedytelevision world is like, but
everything is like.

Speaker 2 (01:16:00):
Every dramedy is now a comedy If it has one joke in
that episode is not comedy Like.
So I'm like, is this a comedythat goes?
No, I think this is very funny,it is funny.

Speaker 1 (01:16:11):
And I think this is more honest because Because what
, what happens in our darkestmoments?
We usually try to find somelevity because we'll be
swallowed up by it.
And this thing is so dark, solike just can be, especially in
that first half before JacksonPollock, against the back of the
wall is so pristine that it canfeel cold and just overwhelmed

(01:16:35):
by it.
So we have to find the comedy.
So I think it's 100 percent asdramatic as you get.
And that's where I get to theuncanny valley that I mentioned,
uncanny Valley that I mentionedearlier.

Speaker 3 (01:16:45):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:16:45):
I agree.

Speaker 3 (01:16:46):
I would say.
I mean, I think it would beclassified as a drama for sure.

Speaker 1 (01:16:49):
Yeah, Steve, are you?
Are you kind of walking?

Speaker 2 (01:16:52):
No, I was just being a smartass, oh, ok.

Speaker 1 (01:16:58):
It's a Ted Lasso with guns.
That's funny.

Speaker 3 (01:17:03):
No, it's great.

Speaker 1 (01:17:05):
Well, Dean, thank you so much.

Speaker 3 (01:17:06):
Oh, this was such a pleasure hanging out.
Well, I mean, this is you know,this was great.
I mean, there's a great time.

Speaker 1 (01:17:13):
There's a reason why movies like this just kind of
resonate right.

Speaker 3 (01:17:15):
We're so much more oh absolutely yeah, and at any
time.
Kubrick, I mean it's likeScorsese, as he said.
He said.
He said, you know, one Kubrickfilm is worth ten of anybody
else's.
I mean he's like the master ofimperfection.
You know what I mean it's like,and then you can talk about it
forever.
So anyway, that's a big part ofit, but anyway, this was
fantastic.

Speaker 1 (01:17:34):
Well, that's a great way to end.
So cheers gentlemen, lovely tomeet you.

Speaker 3 (01:17:38):
Lovely to meet you.
Hey, till next time, man.
You're really nice to see you.
I can't wait.
I'd love to come back.

Speaker 1 (01:17:43):
Yeah so, and thank you all for joining us on Happy
Hour Flicks.

Speaker 2 (01:17:48):
Happy Hour Flicks is produced by Framework
Productions.
See more at DFPTV, and you cancheck out our cocktail for
today's episode there as well.
The song you're listening to isby Johnny Minio.
Check him out on Instagram atHello Modelo.
Thanks for listening.

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}FULL METAL JACKET | with guest Dean Imperial (Godfather of Harlem, Hammerhead, Imposters)