HAPPY HOUR FLIX is a podcast all about the movies you love and love to talk about. A nostalgic look at what we grew up watching and how they still impact us today.
Have you ever pondered over the deeper meanings and cultural impact of the 1975 classic movie, 'One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest'? Join hosts Steven Pierce and Matt Mundy as we dissect this cinematic tour de force, alongside our esteemed guest, renowned actor Timothy V Murphy. Timothy's breadth of experience and unique insights are a boon to our exploration of this film's many layers - from its memorable cast led by Jack Nicholson, to its poignant storytelling, and intriguing political themes.
Of course, we must toast with our friends over at Misguided Spirits and Nick Miller at The Wolfhound in Astoria, Queens who mixed up our especially wicked cocktail for us today.
today's cocktail:
Nurse Ratch’ed
1oz Misguided Gin
1oz Dolin Genepy
1oz Velvet Falernum
1oz Lime Juice
Shake and strain into cocktail rocks glass, serve on rocks with cherry garnish
...back in the episode, we delve into the complexities of Jack Nicholson's character, whose emotional arc leaves a profound impression. We marvel at the film's masterful storytelling, reminiscent of the golden age of screenwriting in the 50s. Under Timothy's keen eye, we also explore the film's often overlooked political themes that eerily mirror the totalitarian regimes of today. We grapple with the difficult choices faced by the characters, particularly those of Nurse Ratched, who personifies an enigmatic force of evil.
As we wrap up the episode, we reflect on the tragic ending of 'One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest' and its ties to the turbulent Irish history of the early 20th century. Timothy also shares captivating anecdotes about the power dynamics within a theater company, and his thoughts on the politicization of the Academy Awards. As we bid our guest adieu, we ruminate on the movie's enduring relevance and impact, as well as its influence on the craft of filmmaking. Tune in for an unforgettable journey into the heart of a cinematic classic.
A quick reminder, no matter where you are listening to us, if you could rate us and drop us a review on Apple Podcasts, we’d be so grateful - it really helps us spread the good vibes. Thank you!
HAPPY HOUR FLIX is produced by James Allerdyce and Lori Kay, and hosted by Steven Pierce and Matt Mundy.
Main Title is by Johnny Mineo.
Happy Hour Flix | Movies You Love
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
In a movie where the person you're supposed to root
for admits to statutory rape inthe first 10 minutes and then
never gets mentioned again.
It's one flew over the cuckoo'snest.
Let's go, let's see a movie.
The year it is 1975 and we havean eight-time Oscar-winning
(00:33):
film here, considered by many tobe one of the best films ever
made 1975, also coming out thisyear's Rocky Horror Picture Show
, the Passenger, barry Linden,nashville, dog Day Afternoon,
monty Python and the Holy Grailand, of course, jaws.
This is a one-flu over thecuckoo's nest.
I'm gonna admit I'd not seenthis movie in probably ten years
(00:56):
before last night, so it tookme a minute to kinda jump back
in.
But, man, it is a very goodmovie.
With me, as always, is co-hostMatt Mundy.
Matt, how are you doing?
Speaker 2 (01:05):
I'm great man, Even after just the ride that that
movie is.
I just re-watched it recentlytoo.
It is just so beautiful.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
It really is.
I mean it just kinda.
It says a whole lot and it is avery big political statement
that I don't think I really gotwhen I first watched this when I
was younger.
Speaker 2 (01:23):
Oh, there's so much I missed.
There's so much I missed earlyon.
It's just an amazing, perfectfilm for reviewing because
there's so many layers.
Speaker 1 (01:32):
Yeah, I mean really so many layers, Really a true
art film.
And, of course, we are joinedtoday by our very special guest.
You guys will know him from avery impressive acting resume
that includes scenes dealing,performances and hit shows like
Westworld, True Detective, youknow, blockbuster films like
National Treasure, Book ofSecrets and Lone Ranger and, of
(01:52):
course, Sons of Anarchy, wherehe won 2013 BuzzFocus Readers'
Choice Award for Best Villainour friend and amazing actor,
Timothy V Murphy Tim, great tohave you here, man.
Speaker 3 (02:05):
Same here, guys.
Love being with you.
Speaker 1 (02:08):
How are you doing today?
Everything starting off okay,having a good chill morning.
Speaker 3 (02:13):
I am, yeah.
Got the kids after their summercamp, got the wife off to work
and now I'm chilling with theboys.
Basically, yeah, yeah, there wego.
Speaker 1 (02:20):
Now that they're all out of here, it is also a great
time to go ahead and bring upour cocktail for this episode.
This cocktail was designed byour friend Nick over at
Wolfhound.
Wolfhound is in Astoria.
You can follow Nick as atNickSpaceMan.
He calls this one a nurseratcheted which you designed for
today.
Tim, do you want to?
(02:42):
Do you want to?
I know, first of all, tim, Ithink, a hot take here.
You're an Irishman, so we knowyou're into whiskey and, I
assume, guinness.
So we made sure we set you upfor success here and got you a
great gin drink.
I love it.
We went full-on English on you.
Just hope you know, just tomake sure you know we love you.
Speaker 3 (03:02):
Yeah, definitely.
I mean quin.
It wasn't a tonic, it wasquinine in the to go with the
gin and tonic that they used todrink in India during the
colonial period to keep themalaria away and the mosquitoes
away.
Speaker 1 (03:19):
Exactly, yeah, and if you ever drink tonic by itself,
it's not like seltzer water,which is downright awesome.
It is.
You know, tonic is a horrorshow of a drink if you drink it
by itself.
Speaker 2 (03:30):
I'm going to go off on a tangent here for a hot
second and before we get back tothe cocktail, I love tonic.
Really.
You like tonic, just straightup as is.
I do, and I'm just this is notsponsored, but I just want to
throw this out there.
In the summer I have a newfavorite drink.
It is cold brew over ice, withtonic and an orange peel.
Speaker 1 (03:51):
That sounds disgusting.
Where did you come?
Speaker 2 (03:53):
up with that.
I was lost and I lost a bet.
That is no, it is ridiculous.
I was seeing a friend's showout in Long Island and, anyway,
the only things out there weresuper fru-fru coffee drinks and
I was like, can I just get acold?
You know, just a cold brewcoffee.
And they're like, would youlike it with orange and tonic?
(04:15):
And I just said, sure, I liveon the edge.
And it was awesome.
I haven't turned back.
I actually was drinking itbefore I came in today.
Speaker 1 (04:24):
No way, dude.
That is crazy.
Tim, have you ever tried coldbrew with tonic?
Speaker 3 (04:28):
No, I'm from Kerry in Ireland.
We don't usually drink thatkind of stuff.
Speaker 2 (04:34):
Just very coffee.
I may have a last name, Mundy,but I think I just gave my Irish
card back.
Speaker 1 (04:42):
Tim, all right.
So what do we got If peoplewant to make this drink at home
and drink along with us, for thenurse ratcheted.
What are we doing here?
Speaker 3 (04:50):
Well, one ounce of misguided gin, one ounce of
doulin or doulin genetti.
Speaker 1 (04:59):
And this is a great time to interrupt be like I'm
having you do this because Ican't pronounce half the shit on
this list and neither can I.
Speaker 3 (05:05):
I mean, I don't even know if I'm pronouncing it right
One ounce of velvet Valernumand one ounce of lime juice.
Now you shake and strain intococktail rocks, glass, serve on
the rocks with cherry garnishincluded in bag.
And I think if you drink enoughof them, you might think you're
(05:25):
back in Ireland.
So, fucking, it might be a badway to call you.
Speaker 1 (05:30):
I love that we ended up with a gin drink for you,
because I feel like the onlything I want to do with you is
just get fucked up on whiskey,like I would just like to do,
like a bourbon night.
You know what I mean.
Speaker 3 (05:45):
Well, you could drink bourbon, being from Missouri
and I could drink whiskey, beingfrom County Kerry in Ireland.
Speaker 2 (05:50):
Great.
Now, there you go.
I'll just drink my frickingtonic in the corner.
Speaker 1 (05:53):
Yeah, you drink your cold brew and whatever tonic
concoction you're doing, feelingthe love.
So, Tim, I text you and this isa.
This is a movie that's near anddear to you.
I asked, like, what's a moviewhen it's on in the hotel that
you'll always turn on becauseyou travel, a lot working, so
why?
Why?
Cuckoo's Nest?
Speaker 3 (06:13):
I don't know, I've always.
I mean, I grew up, you know,1975.
I was 15.
In my teenage years we saw themost amazing movies.
You went to the theater.
You saw the I mean a horrormovie with Jaws that year, as
you said, you know, I mean BarryLyndon was not a great Kubrick
(06:34):
Movie, but it was shot inIreland and it looked beautiful
and it has its own beauty, youknow.
And and then, of course, onefloor of the Cuckoo's Nest.
I remember reading the book.
I think it was by Ken Keezy,one of the, the, the, the, the,
the beat kind of generationwriters, and I actually didn't
think much of the book, andusually the book is better than
(06:56):
the film.
And then I saw the film becauseI heard a lot about it.
It was about to come out andthey were saying it's going to
be good and all that.
And, oh my God, it was so muchbetter than the book.
I found the book boring and itwas like Jack Nicholson was just
, you know, so alive and so.
Speaker 1 (07:15):
I mean these movies in the 70s with Jack Nicholson.
Anything he is in is just, Imean just over the top fears
Like he's just crushingUnbelievable.
Speaker 3 (07:23):
Unbelievable, Like I mean I saw, you know I think,
got bad reviews that year.
Missouri Breaks yeah With, with, with, with Nicholson and
Brando.
You know Brando dressed up as awoman and killing people and
stuff and I mean the movies thatwere making were like fucking
and the actors were just.
I suppose those actors weregiven an opportunity to really
(07:45):
show, show themselves, which notmany actors are allowed to do
anymore.
Speaker 1 (07:51):
I mean, the cast is incredible.
But one thing I think Ken Caseyhated this movie, didn't he?
He didn't, he's never watchedit.
Speaker 3 (07:58):
Are you serious?
Speaker 1 (08:00):
Yeah, I'm pretty sure that's like urban legend that
he, like he's, he hated themovie, he hated the direction
Milo's was taking it, directedby, obviously, the amazing, oh
my.
Speaker 3 (08:10):
God, his last name, Milo Swarman.
I was like his last nameescaped me.
Speaker 1 (08:12):
Yeah, and he, but he, he was so Ken Casey.
He thought it was going in sucha bad direction.
He was did not agree with whatthey were doing, because the
movie was the book is from thechief's perspective, I believe.
Yeah, so I've not read the bookthat usually I've read.
I've read quite a few of theclassics, but I've not read this
one in this.
Speaker 3 (08:32):
It's not a classic.
When I was 15, I was by board,but then I was a 15 year old, so
fuck it, yeah, right.
Speaker 1 (08:43):
I don't think he's ever so.
The urban legend, or whatever,says he's only ever seen part of
it and he accidentally turnedit on at a hotel and watch part.
As soon as he realized what itwas, he turned it off.
Speaker 3 (08:53):
God.
And then again, kirk Douglaswas already pissed off that he
was in the league, because Ithink he played the lead on
Broadway.
Speaker 1 (09:00):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (09:01):
And his son produced it.
Speaker 2 (09:03):
Yeah, and his son didn't cast him.
Speaker 3 (09:05):
I didn't cast him.
He got the rights to the work.
Speaker 1 (09:08):
So he was.
He started it on Broadway,right yeah.
And who?
Who starred as Billy littleBilly on Broadway?
Gene Wilder, oh, that's right.
Oh my God who.
Speaker 3 (09:21):
I love yeah.
Speaker 1 (09:22):
It was incredible.
It was incredible the only careonly cast member that from
Broadway that made it into thefilm.
Speaker 2 (09:27):
Danny DeVito, danny DeVito, danny DeVito.
That's amazing.
He's the only one.
Speaker 1 (09:31):
Everyone else didn't make it and he anyway.
But yeah, he, michael Douglasplayed, or Kirk Douglas, sorry,
he played the very different.
Douglas played the McMurphy,right Played the Murphy on
Broadway yeah exactly and wantedto probably got the rights to
the book.
Wanted to do it was insistingwas his thing, it was going to
be his role and then just couldnever get it produced and aged
(09:54):
out and his son got the rightsto it.
Well and it's crazy too.
Speaker 2 (09:57):
So that is like in.
So that was like 61 when that,when they did it on Broadway and
it ran for like five, sixmonths and then they sent it to
Milo Shformin to look at thescreenplay, to try to
immediately do it because theycouldn't get anybody to, you
know, give him any money.
And then for 10 years there wasno back and forth between Milo
(10:20):
and the Douglass is.
And when they finally did talk,michael was like so why didn't
you call my dad back?
And he's like what are youtalking about?
And he figured he just after hesaid, hey, do you want to do
this?
And then he didn't send me thescreenplay.
Come to find out in that 10years when it, when he sent the
(10:40):
screenplay to Milo Shformin, itgot held up at the sensors at
customs and neither of them,yeah, and neither of them knew
that for 10 years.
So that's when Michael tookover and was like, sorry, dad, I
think you aged out.
Speaker 1 (10:53):
And I mean how heartbreaking, if you like, have
a role that you did at thattime also 1960s, 1950s, broadway
, like I mean that is, you'retalking height of popularity,
that's like competing oh yeah,you got to be competing with
Hollywood, like I mean, you area fucking star if you were on
this.
And then you just he was what?
In his fifties when they madethe film, I mean I don't know
(11:15):
actually his age, but he wasthey obviously thought he was
too old.
But could you imagine this role, even by a brilliant actor like
that?
But being 50 years old it justtotally changes the dynamic.
He needs to be young anddangerous and Jack Nicholson is
perfect for that.
Speaker 2 (11:30):
Yeah, Tim, did you see the last detail?
Speaker 3 (11:36):
I did, which I love this.
Well, that was the two sailors,wasn't it?
Yes, it was, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:44):
Well, I love because and you've seen five easy pieces
and easy writer right.
Speaker 3 (11:48):
I mean the scenes are that.
I mean some of those moviesthey're brilliant to watch, but
they wouldn't.
You know, they went on too longor whatever.
But there's certain scenes inthose movies that are like
fucking phenomenal, yeah.
Speaker 2 (12:03):
Yeah, well, and apparently it was.
And the reason I askedspecifically about the last
detail I didn't know this, butapparently Milo Schorman was
like I don't know about Jackhe's.
I've seen him do five easypieces, easy writer, but I am
not sure.
And then I think it was MichaelDouglas said watch the last
detail.
And then that's when herealized oh, he's huge, he can
(12:24):
do this.
Speaker 3 (12:25):
Yeah, yeah.
And you know, when I, when Ilooked at it, when I looked at
that movie way back then, Ithought it was quite a complex
movie and longer than that.
Then, when I watch it, when Iwatched it again later on, years
later, it's quite a simplelittle movie, you know the story
(12:45):
is simple, the scenes aresimple, his performance is
amazing, but it's like it wasnot.
It's not a long movie and itdefinitely didn't bore me or
anything like that, and it's.
It's very watchable still,which is great, because some of
them don't age well, you knowthose things, that's a great
point.
Speaker 2 (13:05):
I was going to say why do you think it was so?
Even being simple that it was,it's still so compelling yeah.
Speaker 3 (13:12):
Well, I think that simplicity now is lost in the
movies.
If you look at those terriblesuperhero movies with all their
flying around and all this kindof crap, I think that the
simpler you can keep something,the better it is.
Really.
You don't have to be breakingthe mold every time, I think.
(13:38):
And there were very goodwriters back then.
I mean, the screenwriters backthen were amazing.
They came from the writers ofthe 50s, which were amazing.
And yeah, they say the greatwriters are on television or
whatever.
But who knows where the greatwriters are coming?
But I think great writing greatwriting is if you can make a
(14:01):
simple little story interesting.
Speaker 1 (14:04):
Simple is the hardest thing to do.
Yes, you can hide behindspectacle.
You can hide behind style.
Speaker 3 (14:11):
You cannot hide behind simplicity no, but I
think if you hire the rightactors and get a simple script
and the dialogue is good and thescenario, I mean it's hard now
to get actors like that, becausethey're not made like that very
much anymore.
Speaker 1 (14:33):
I mean we've got to talk about the cast.
The cast is incredible.
They're big, notable names thatare just known for chewing up
the scenery, and then somereally subtle actors in there
too.
But I mean you have DannyDeVito in here that is doing
amazing.
The guy's been incredible hisentire career.
And Chris Lloyd, I mean ChrisVerloyde, I mean these.
(14:54):
I could not.
If you named three bananaslevel actors from the 1980s,
it's probably going to be ChrisVerloyde, danny DeVito and Jack
Nicholson.
Speaker 2 (15:04):
You know like they're going to be on the list at
least, and then theunderappreciated Vincent
Scallari as well.
Speaker 1 (15:09):
Yeah, yeah, I mean, but they were just.
I've ever been across the boardis absolutely crushing on this
film.
One of the things that was.
Speaker 3 (15:20):
Like it's often said, there are no small parts, and
in that movie there actuallywere no small parts.
Speaker 1 (15:27):
You know, one of the you said simple and the initial,
when I was watching this movieand what I remembered from this
movie when I was younger becauseI think I saw this movie and I
was, very, like you know, in 10early teens, my early teens and
I didn't get it and I actuallydidn't think nurse ratchet was a
bad person when I first saw it.
It just emulated too much ofwhat I was used to in like
Catholic school and you know,things like that was just too
(15:49):
familiar.
Speaker 3 (15:49):
We all were like that , exactly it was too familiar.
Speaker 1 (15:51):
I was like, oh, that's just who that is.
I mean you can't fuck with her,she's going to, she's going to
snap back.
But when I wasn't reallycertain that Jack Nicholson had
an arc.
But then watching it this timeit is subtle.
But it is so specific and itcomes through in two specific
points in the film because hisarc for me is an emotional arc,
which again is why this movieworks, is because it's he starts
(16:14):
off as a guy trying to.
It's a bad guy, literallyarrested for a statutory rape
and assault and all these otherthings and terrible things that
he admits that he has no remorsewhatsoever.
He's just fucking the systemover to get into, you know, to
get out of work.
Detail.
That's how it all starts.
In the end he is here beforebefore the ultimate twist at the
end.
He's there to support and makethe lives better of these new
(16:36):
friends of his right.
He like he is sort of a part ofthis family and he has.
He cares for these charactersthat he's surrounded, like it,
and I think the two points.
That really solidifies that isboth times he could get away.
Now this might also be a thingthat I'm not super into with you
know the psychological, youknow disease he supposedly has,
(16:56):
but he escapes and doesn't runaway.
He steals a bus and takes allof them out on a fishing trip
and then second time he gets thekey open, he opens the window
but he can't leave.
I think these are intentionaldecisions to tell you that he is
a character that cares aboutthese other people and doesn't
know.
You know he, their satisfactionis the, the, the, the genesis,
and what makes him reallyimportant as a character.
(17:18):
So just, it's such anincredible arc for somebody that
starts off so cold and ends upbeing so warm and he tries to
kill Snir, nurse Ratchet, causewhat he did, what she did to
Billy.
Speaker 3 (17:30):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (17:32):
I was going to say, tim, what I was going to say.
Do those moments stand out foryou as like two of those big
moments the, the ability to getaway.
Speaker 3 (17:41):
They do, the ability to get away.
And you know, do you realize,the second time, if he doesn't
go, he's fucked.
Please go, please go.
Speaker 1 (17:47):
The whole time you're like why are you not just out
the damn window, man?
Speaker 3 (17:52):
Why did you all just get drunk, you know, and and not
the, and just yeah, becausehe's, he should have gone, but
yeah, those, and then you don'tsee.
You know what what I love?
You know what I?
What I love is I love JessicaChastain, but she did a movie
and I think she went and askedher for it about, about, uh, uh,
(18:14):
you know, catching Osama BinLaden or something.
Speaker 1 (18:17):
Is it the Zero Dark Thirty?
Speaker 3 (18:19):
Yeah so, but then the camera was waiting for her to
cry, basically, and you knowshe's great emotional actress.
I love her work actually, but Iknow it's the director's choice
or her choice or the movie orhow it was edited or whatever.
But it looked like they werejust waiting there for her to
give her moment of the tears orwhatever.
You know, there was a onemoment like that there.
(18:40):
I mean Jack, never I don'tthink he ever broke down.
He always kept the spirit going.
That's what I love about, aboutthat character and about Jack's
performance and about MickeyRourke's performance and the
wrestler.
They're really difficultcircumstances.
They they bring in humor.
It's a very Irish way ofdealing with Well it's the
(19:01):
defense mechanism, is thestruggle.
Speaker 1 (19:03):
I would argue that he does have one moment that he
shows you know what I call thecountermask like what he
presents the world versus whathe actually is.
And the countermask shows forme when he's laying on the cot
right before he gets the electroshock and he's making jokes and
stuff, but you can feel, oh no,you do.
There's a tangible sense thathe's lost it, he's panicking.
Speaker 3 (19:23):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:25):
That's it.
Speaker 3 (19:27):
And that that because of that, that, that moment that
really, I mean I even thinkingabout it makes me emotional here
.
I'm just okay, I'm, you knowyou freaking panic when you're.
I mean, I remember I sufferedfrom frigging, you know,
claustrophobia at one stage andall that right and how I got
(19:49):
over was I went down to thedeepest frigging cave in Ireland
to see if I could get over.
But before I went in there toface my demons and my fears, I
was joking and laughing andfucking talking a mile a minute.
I was as nervous as shit, but Iwas portraying this thing that
you know.
So yeah, yeah, that's.
Speaker 1 (20:10):
that's why I mean I have a similar thing.
I mean you just went fullBatman on that, like Nolan.
Batman, You're like I'm justgoing to go down into the bat
cave and be engulfed in bats.
Speaker 3 (20:19):
Fuck it.
Speaker 2 (20:19):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's totally what I was
thinking about, okay.
Speaker 3 (20:25):
And I cured myself.
Speaker 1 (20:26):
So fucking cured myself, so fucking.
I mean it's so many great andyou wanted the things you said
about the cast earlier I want tocome back to because I think
most of this film it was one ofthose approaches, sort of I
guess in the camp of Nashville,in that kind of like world,
where it's like improv and golike where they're really just
playing and the cameras are justrolling, which is really a
(20:48):
scary way to shoot.
But I think with this kind of Imean is Sydney Lassick actually
had a meltdown.
The guy that plays a oh my God,I forget the character's name
oh, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (20:58):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:59):
Yeah, he, literally, they were worried about him,
cheswick.
Speaker 1 (21:03):
They were worried about him on set.
Speaker 2 (21:04):
Yeah, yeah, but yeah, even Louise Fletcher said at
one point, the camera, she justassumed the cameras were always
rolling, which actually made herrelax.
She's like I couldn't figureout when they were going to be
rolling or not rolling, or whenthey were taking a rehearsal or
it was a take and she had.
She was so worked up about it.
And then finally she came overto the top and was like well, I
(21:26):
was just relaxed, assuming as Iwas on camera the whole time.
Speaker 3 (21:29):
God, she was amazing, I thought.
But like, if you look at Jackand you and you look at the you
know and the direct direction,the director and just the movie
itself was like you know, yeah,there there's, there's a guy
who's trying to, who's trying tocheat the system, basically you
know he's trying to, but it'sthe system, it's the big man,
(21:49):
it's the bad guy.
Really the system is bad.
So why shouldn't I, a bad guylike me, fuck with it?
You know?
And he thinks he thinks he canget away with that, you know.
And then he wants you know he'sfor his fellow men.
You know these are good men,these are kind, these are
sensitive, these are lovelypeople.
Fuck the machine, fuck the bigguys up there with the money and
(22:11):
the government and everybodytrying to control us.
You know we can be buddies, wecan defeat this system.
But the nicer you are, thesofter you are, the the more
sensitive you are.
You're going to get fucked.
Speaker 1 (22:24):
That's a great transition to be like do you get
?
What do you get?
What do you guys think the likeI mean not like the higher
metaphor, but this is ametaphoric movie Like this movie
is straight up like 1984.
For me, like George Orwell,this thing has something to say.
What do you guys think the kindof, the larger message and
metaphor of this is Tell me youwant to take that one yeah.
Speaker 3 (22:46):
Well, you know, if you look at this day and age,
right, you can't criticizeanything.
If you criticize something, ifyou criticize a government, a
totalitarian government, youknow, not just even within
America.
If you criticize Bush, numbertwo, about the Iraq or Afghan
(23:08):
war, back then, like the DixieChicks, like a, like Mara, that
comedian said, those guys werebrave, or those guys if you
criticize and if, if you wereoppressed, if you were in, if
you're a journalist andquestioned, questioned anything,
Rumsfeld would call you atraitor and dismiss you or
(23:29):
whatever.
Nowadays it's a way worse even.
I mean you can't like, youcan't criticize.
I went on.
I won't say why it's criticizedor anything, but you know I
love human rights and I'm alwaysfor the underdog and I believe
people should be kind to eachother and love each other.
I can't.
You know, Americans should bandtogether right now.
(23:51):
Americans should ban the peoplein America should band together
, not point fingers at eachother, because there's a lot of
totalitarian regimes around theworld banding together right now
.
And the democratic countriesshould band together because, as
bad as they might become,they're not half as bad as those
(24:12):
other places, especially forfreedom of speech or not being
afraid that, like you cancriticize.
You can criticize the fuck outof Biden or Trump, right, but
you probably won't get killed orbe put in jail for it, you know
.
But if you do that to someother countries around the world
, you're going to be in trouble.
Speaker 2 (24:32):
We'll never hear from you again.
Speaker 3 (24:35):
Yeah, exactly, even in this country, like it's you,
I can't.
I have to watch what I sayonline, because if I don't watch
what I say online, I might notget a job in one of the studios
or I might not get there orpeople might take me up as being
not not on their side, soyou're against them, so some
(24:57):
weird shit like that that youcan't even criticize or have an
argument or anything.
Really, you're best keepingyour fucking mouth shut.
But even if you keep your mouthshut, some people might say, oh
, he didn't speak up about that,so he's one of them.
Speaker 1 (25:14):
But I mean I mean, I think you know the discussion,
the days of discussion are nothere currently and I do miss, I
mean, in my lifetime I'm amillennial, you know, I was born
in the 80s, it's like so, youknow, like it is, it's felt like
a very brief window during myadult life where you could
actually have a conversationabout something and not be a win
(25:35):
or lose.
You know there's no like middleground of, I think, this well,
what do you think about this?
And kind of moderation is gone,and I will say that I mean you.
I think this film echoes it andI think that is what is trying
to say in many degrees, and Ithink what you're kind of
commenting on.
It reminds me a lot of likeMcCarthyism.
It reminds me a lot of, I mean,and that's what Milo said, or
(25:56):
Milo, I don't know how youpronounce it- but that's what
the director said he was like I.
people are saying don't do thisfilm because it's you know, the
book is too much of this andit's not gonna.
It's too fantastical, it's notgonna work.
And he's like what are youkidding?
I lived this.
He's like I lived through thecommunist regime.
I was with people that told youthis is how you think, this is
what you do.
And that is real to him.
(26:19):
And I think that that is sortof what this movie is saying.
Speaker 2 (26:23):
for me Interesting for both of you on the political
side, cause I that's, I totallyresonates and I thought my
reaction was more of all aroundthe fact that everybody in there
, except for a few, as we findout in that critical moment, are
in there voluntarily.
(26:44):
And I realized, you know, thisis not a prison, these guys
weren't forced to be here.
So to me, I saw it through alens of our inability to make
the right choice.
And we, you know, look at NurseRatchet, and this goes back to
what again?
(27:04):
To Echo Milosh, where he waslike I didn't see her as evil, I
saw her as the instrument ofevil.
And so here we are as people.
Speaker 1 (27:14):
This is a great quote .
By the way, that is a reallygreat quote for Nurse Ratchet.
That is dead on how I feelabout her, yeah.
Speaker 2 (27:21):
And she, like, I would like to hear it comes
across and I just you know.
Speaker 1 (27:23):
She feels like the kind of character.
I'm sorry to interrupt whereshe walks out of this hospital
and she is, you know, completelya powerless like sort of person
, like she's seeking her powerin this venue, where she
controls it, and outside of here.
Speaker 2 (27:40):
Yeah, when she comes in she's dressed in black.
Then she changes into heruniform and she's the exact same
color as the rest of the place,I didn't notice that.
Speaker 1 (27:47):
What a good decision.
Speaker 2 (27:49):
Yeah, every time she comes in, every time she leaves,
she's in the same outfit, butin black, even the pill hat.
And then, when she's in there,she changes to the white uniform
, which is the exact same coloras everything else.
She becomes part of it, justlike they are.
Speaker 1 (28:03):
There's a moment when she comes in after the party
and man, the party scene is sogreat Like the whole time you're
like they're fucked.
Like there's a moment just inmy life, you know and I think
most people that you know likeyou reach the point you're
watching them and you see themtip over the edge and you're
like, well, you can't clean thisup now.
You're fucked.
Oh yeah, you just crossed theline, you're getting caught now.
(28:27):
And for me it's like wheneverthey open up the door and their
shit on the walls.
Speaker 2 (28:29):
Oh, that's that.
That breaks the moment.
That breaks the moment wherethey send Turkle Scatman out and
you're like, oh, he might saveit.
He's like, oh, it's just me.
Speaker 1 (28:38):
And then, of course, you know, candy opens up and
it's like oh, okay, this is notit's that moment when you're
like in college, at least for meand you're like hanging out
within a place you're notsupposed to be with friends, and
you're like, yeah, if we justkeep it small and we all just
kind of drink and hang out here,we don't fuck anything up.
No, we really bother us.
And then somebody like smashessomething or like ruins the
scratchers and he's like son ofa bitch, we're gone, man.
Speaker 2 (29:02):
Yeah, totally yeah.
It's just that, and it's thoselittle things throughout the
movie that I things thatshouldn't have gotten out of
control every single time justgoes out of control, you know.
Speaker 3 (29:14):
Yeah, but yeah, I mean you might say too many
things, just don't go right.
You know One after the other,you know.
So yeah, yeah, like even.
Speaker 2 (29:25):
Yeah, go ahead, go ahead.
Speaker 3 (29:26):
Well, going back to North Ranch, I mean I love, I
love that situation where you'renothing outside your
organization and then you gointo your organization.
It's like some of the guys inthe Nazi party.
They might have been butchersor unemployed frigging laborers
or whatever, and then they'relike they're soldiers in the SS
(29:50):
with a beautiful you know HugoBoss uniform and stuff and what
they can do then.
But I was a member of a theatercompany one time and I remember
the artistic directors, ahusband and wife, outside that
little theater, and they used tohave theater classes as well.
Outside that little theaterthere were an oddity Like he,
(30:11):
dressed in black, with he lookedlike Count Dracula, with the
he'd long gray hair, handsomeman with a he'd never put his
hands in the sleeves of his coatand this is an LA now a coat, a
black coat, right, he'd neverput his hands, they'd just be
draped over his shoulders and hewas this oddity, right.
And then outside of the theater,right, and his wife was this
(30:36):
kind of, you know, like another,like she didn't fit in in the
outside world, but inside, inthat little box of a theater,
they were like the king andqueen and every little actor in
there treated them like the kingand queen and they'd always
talk about you know, I don'twant to mention names, though,
(30:57):
that's why I'm careful andthey'd always talk about his
great performance, you know, ofHanlid or something Many, many
years that he's referring tothat, and all the young ladies
in the theater.
They loved it all.
He's handsome and he's theirteacher and it was.
But it's just like that wastheir little kingdom, like that
(31:18):
was Nars Ratchett's littlekingdom.
Outside they'd be lining up inthe DMV shopping for groceries,
people pushing him out of theway, treating them with like as
if they're just normal people,but inside, in that little box,
they were fucking gods, you know.
So it, yeah, just like NarsRatchett, you know.
Speaker 2 (31:40):
That's a great, great point, you know.
Speaker 1 (31:45):
They, and how did that not know?
You did like theater too, Tim.
I thought you were only a TVand film guy.
Speaker 3 (31:50):
Oh, I've done it all, and I'd even before I was an
actor.
I've done a million otherthings, yeah.
Speaker 1 (31:56):
You know your whole like description of that is
totally done on.
But it reminds me of like,cause I went to a conservatory
theater program.
And it reminds me of like yourmovement teacher.
Like, because you teach a lotof these.
You know schools teach movement, so you do all kinds of
different.
Speaker 3 (32:11):
Oh my God, it's basically like rolling around on
the floor my first year.
Speaker 1 (32:14):
we used to I mean, I got a few buddies and we just
like play, like basically it waslike playing, which is what it
is, that's what it's supposed tobe.
We like play like Spider-Manand throw fireballs at each
other and we're just fuckingnerds.
It was just dumb as hell.
But it's like if you meet yourmovement teacher who, like wears
all crushed velvet and, likeyou know, odd colors and has all
the different mood rings on inthe room, that's like their
(32:36):
domain.
But you meet them at like youknow fucking Walmart, you know
they're.
It's like what's this crazylady doing here with all these
candles?
Speaker 3 (32:42):
Who's that?
Fucking okay, exact, exact.
Who's that homeless odd person.
You know what do you?
Speaker 1 (32:49):
think I mean that's a lot of candles just for a
normal person Like.
I don't think you should havethat many, too many flames.
Speaker 2 (32:54):
I will turn that music down and I will watch the
World Series.
It's the same, I mean similarexperience with me.
I mean I think we all havethose stories and it's just like
, yeah, I had an artisticdirector who just I was did a
program with under him and oh,when he walked into the room, I
(33:15):
mean his shit did not stink, andit was.
I am the most powerful humanand you are wrong for everything
.
And then to your point, Steve,then seeing him some years later
, you know, in an Irish pub, andI was like, oh, what's up how
you doing, and then justcontinued on with my
conversation.
Speaker 1 (33:38):
All right, hey, quiz time here.
Academy Awards this one eightAcademy Awards.
You guys wanna guess on whatwhich one's it won?
Speaker 3 (33:47):
Eight Definitely best actor, obviously.
Yep, that's one Best film, Ithink.
Speaker 1 (33:53):
He won Best Picture, yeah.
Speaker 3 (33:55):
Yeah, best Director yes, and Screenplay yeah, yep.
Ok, we're not Everyone innearly half way.
Speaker 1 (34:09):
That's for, that's for.
Oh, it actually won one.
It won one nine, nine.
Speaker 3 (34:15):
I have those for the days where you did not win the
best film without winning bestdirector and best actor as well,
whereas now they see it's sopolitical, or we give that to
them and that you know it'sridiculous now.
Speaker 2 (34:29):
But yeah, and to your point.
It's just like are you kiddingme?
Like Louise Fletcher and JackNicholson, they absolutely like
give it to him, you know, andI'll support supporting actor.
And Brad Brad Dorough Is alittle.
He won for best supporting thatyear.
Speaker 1 (34:48):
I'm checking this out because I said yeah, it said
eight and I have nine on my list, so I just want to figure out
what's right.
Interesting, why you do, yeah,well why you do that Something.
Speaker 2 (34:57):
You said because they did win an Oscar for
screenwriting.
And Tim, you were talkingearlier just about the level of
screenwriting.
Yeah, and there was a momentthat I totally so it's one of my
favorite moments in the movie,where he offers him the gum and
Chief talks for the first time.
(35:18):
You remember that, yeah.
And then, yeah, yeah, and yousee it on McMurphy's face trying
to register it.
So he's like what do I do?
I guess I'll, I'll nudge himagain and I'll offer him another
piece, and yeah.
So there was, you know, and Isaw a brief little piece about
this where everybody came toJack and said, oh my gosh, that
(35:40):
was a brilliant choice to make,to just hit him again and nudge
him and give him another and seeif you could get him to talk by
asking him another piece.
And he's like you freaking,kidding me, that was in the
script.
And, sure enough, you know, theamazing screenwriter who then
appropriately won was a BoGoldman and he he, it was
(36:05):
written in the script Nudges himon the elbow twice, offers him
a second and just waits for himto speak.
And it's like, oh my God, itwas in there.
Speaker 1 (36:19):
OK, news news update.
I have an update here.
Ok, according to the deeplyvetted and always correct
Wikipedia, I I was incorrectthis is one, one, two, three,
four, five Oscars.
It had a few more nominations,but you were all correct here,
tim.
It did one best picture, onebest director, one best actor,
(36:42):
best actress for Jack Nicholsonand Louise Fletcher, and it also
won best screenplay.
It was also nominated for bestsupporting actor for Brad Dorf,
also nominated for.
Nominated for bestcinematography let's come back
to that in one second Best filmediting and best original score,
but it did not win for any ofthose.
This movie had threecinematographers, one of which a
(37:04):
former Oscar winner, that gotfired like early on.
Yeah, I don't know if you guys,but he the reason was because
he and Milo's were not gettingalong.
Again, they wanted a veryimprov movie.
They were very much working for.
Like seemed like a world whereit was like three hundred and
sixty degree coverage, whereyou're like or as much as
(37:24):
possible, where the actors couldplay and improv and the camera
was not dictating the what wasdone.
I actually really appreciatethis.
It's not, you know, always thebest style of filmmaking, but in
this film, where it's like ayou know.
You know it's a psychiatricward, a hospital.
Basically it's a contained area.
Yeah, I mean, the cinematicversion of these scenes, of
(37:46):
these group scenes, is by farthe least important part, and
I'm sure a cinematographer woulddisagree with me.
But the most important part isseeing the actors work together
in the moments, play and feelreal and out of control or in
control.
That's what's important.
The lighting needs to be asgood as possible, but it should
definitely take a backseat tothe scene, the setting, the
performance and the staging, andthat is the last thing a
(38:08):
cinematographer wants to hear.
Speaker 3 (38:10):
Yeah, it wasn't a spaghetti Western night.
Speaker 1 (38:13):
No, yeah.
Well, it's not like whereyou're trying to make it look
beautiful and dynamic andcontrolled.
Speaker 3 (38:17):
And it's not about the image, it's about what's
happening in the lens and thatis the inner and the energy I
think, and yeah, definitely thatdogma style that came on later
on, the Danish kind of stylewhere the camera is like an
emotion.
In some ways it's like anemotional thing and there's a
certain feel of that to some ofthose scenes.
Speaker 1 (38:41):
And some scenes need that you know like for instance
you've got the scene at the endwhere he comes in and he's been
lobotomized.
Here's the spoiler, which isthe true tragedy of the movie
you don't really see coming.
You know what I mean.
Like you think, oh, they'renever going to.
It really is sort ofheartbreaking the way it's
revealed.
Speaker 2 (38:59):
I was going to say do you remember?
Because I want you to continuethat point.
But I do want to ask do eitherof you remember the end?
Did it really catch you offguard that much?
Speaker 3 (39:15):
I think, I really think it was so sad really.
I mean you basically, yeah, youwant, you know, I suppose in
the 70s, because of the VietnamWar and because of the Second
World War before that, somegreat movies came out and
because of the movement withcivil rights and everything
going on, you know, there wasgreat creativity coming out, and
(39:39):
there was great creativity waslike no, the good guy doesn't
always win.
In fact, usually the good guyloses when he fights the system,
you know, which is really thehonest way.
But before that you'd have, youknow, in the 60s you'd have
true grit, where John Wayne wonan Academy Award who never,
would never, lose anything inhis life, you know.
(39:59):
But to see the movies in the70s, the good guy usually got
fucked, you know, in very oftenanyway, that's a great, great
point.
Speaker 2 (40:09):
That's why I wanted to ask Sorry, yeah, the first
time.
Speaker 1 (40:12):
I usually write any screenplay, like if anything
that I really care about,usually the ending is usually
pretty dark, like it's a very1970s sort of ending and that's
what I always really love.
I've always.
But audiences right now don'treally.
And there is something to this.
Like you know, if you're goingto create some art, don't you
want to somewhat beinspirational, like parables are
(40:34):
, you know, great, like theyexist in the Bible, but they
also create a sort of paralympicparallel.
Oh my God.
They create sort of a dichotomyof emotion where some people
take them too seriously anddon't take the point and take
the tone over the point.
So you know, overall, like Ifeel it is, I remember when I
(40:54):
saw it this time like the firsttime, I was like holy shit, and
that was the thing that Iremembered from it is that it
got lobotomized and I didn'treally remember the context or
why or what it stood for.
But this definitely for me thistime stands for that overall
suppression of revolutionary.
You know.
That is that you know, when wecan no longer win with reason,
(41:16):
rhyme or, you know, or guile, orguile, we win with power and
that is always the weakest.
It's the rule.
By fear, not with you know, notwith inspiration kind of tactic
.
And that, to me, stood out verystrongly this time, and you
know even the titles.
One flew over the cuckoo's nestthe whole time.
(41:37):
You expect it's going to beJack Nicholson, it's going to be
his time here and what he takesaway from it and then the fact
that it in the end ends up beingthe chief is sort of a really.
I mean, it's a deep, deep cutemotionally and you feel they
let it linger on that shot ofhim running away into the
darkness for so long andChristopher Lloyd is just losing
his mind, like they're cuttingback between the two of them,
(42:00):
like with elation, like it does.
You know, it's that kind ofopportunity of hope.
I think, without getting tooacademic and bullshitty about
all of this, that's kind of whatI think.
You know it does have thatfeeling of like, no, when you
can, you must do.
You know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (42:15):
You can't just sit on your haunches because they will
just crush you right andbecause I want to actually go in
that direction, but I want tomake sure that you finish your
other thought, unless youwrapped it up in that which, if
you, let me keep talking, matt,I'm going to talk for a whole
damn time.
Speaker 1 (42:30):
This is also true.
I'll never shut up, do you want?
Speaker 2 (42:33):
me to keep going.
I'll keep going, no, no.
Speaker 1 (42:34):
I want to.
No, no, no, no, hold on, I'llkeep going.
Speaker 2 (42:37):
No, it's fine.
Well, I just want to make sure,because what you said really
resonated with that moment wherethe so after chief and I, matt,
realized that they're allies,they're friends, and he and Matt
comes over to, and what then ismirrored by the sadness that we
were just talking about.
When, in the first scene, mattcomes over to chief's bed and
(43:01):
then, of course, at the end,it's chief going over to Matt's
bed, but in this moment he talksabout his dad and he goes like
my papa was, you know, reallybig and he did as he pleased.
And that's what he did.
He was really big and he did ashe pleased.
And that's why they're working,you know, that's why they
worked on him, and the way theyworked on him is the way they're
(43:23):
working on you, and it's likethat's what you remember.
That moment he's like you'rebigger than me and Jack or Matt
is like what are you talkingabout?
And he said, no, I remember mydad.
And so, to your point, one flewover the cuckoo's nest.
It's a beautiful setup thatthey all did in the redoing it
with the screenplay rather thanthe book's point of view, and
(43:45):
then also with just the wholedirection of it, saying, oh,
this is that moment where Mattlearns his lesson and learns.
Oh, I better be careful, orthey're going to keep working on
me.
And then the true tragedy iswhat it is.
Speaker 1 (43:59):
It's true late, I mean, when he recognizes it.
It's in that other scene wherehe comes out and he's like you
guys knew the whole time thatthey controlled.
When I got the hell out of here.
It's like, and it's veryheartbreaking.
Speaker 3 (44:10):
It was yeah, and then he gets pissed off with them.
Speaker 1 (44:13):
They didn't even tell him, and it's like watching the
teacher get pissed at thestudents.
You know what I mean.
You know that it's not right,it doesn't feel good, it doesn't
feel.
You can tell they're in a badspot and they shouldn't be doing
what they're doing, but at thesame time you can empathize with
how they got there.
Speaker 3 (44:31):
But like it was a good ending in a way.
I mean that the chief did killhim, you know, and suffocate him
.
Because during our fight forindependence, a bunch of you
know there were into the Irishhistory.
There were teachers, thereweren't soldiers, there were
revolutionaries.
Is there any such thing anymore, you'd wonder?
(44:54):
Because most revolutionarieswere not soldiers at all, they
actually fought against thesoldiers and whatever.
But in 1916, you know, a bunchyou know took up arms against
the British Brown in Ireland,you know, and all the leaders
were executed.
They were all shot.
(45:14):
And if they had not shot thoserevolutionaries it probably
would have.
If they sent them off to a longtime in prison or whatever, you
know, it would have dissipatedany kind of revolution, any
other thinking of the Irishpeople rising up to revolt.
But when they killed all thoserevolutionaries, when they shot
(45:39):
them, it made the Irish, whowere not the majority of the
people there did not support the1916 rising.
But and their letters wereamazing to their sisters and
their brothers and their parentsbefore they were executed, like
they were brave men Before theywere being executed it was like
, hopefully my blood now will me, you know, giving my blood will
(46:06):
gain independence for Ireland.
They went to their deck withhonour.
Most people like the lettersare just amazing to me.
But what the connection to youknow to die for Ireland like was
not nowadays, when, if you saidthat to a young person die for
(46:28):
Ireland it was like, no, are youfucking kidding me?
Or whatever you know and eat,eat I mean Bobby Sands later on.
But just that way of thinking.
But when, when the chief killedhim and he looked like he had
escaped the thing, everybody wascheering.
(46:49):
Or if they had killed him, Ithink everybody would be
cheering.
But if they had seen him as alobotomy victim, there was no
hope basically, and in a waythere was no hope for humanity
type of thing that the machineor the more powerful one always
wins, but in that moment they'dbeat the machine in some ways,
(47:12):
or he beat the machine or exceptthe chief digits.
What I love about that moment,that's a great, great point.
Speaker 1 (47:17):
Yeah, what I love about that moment, at least for
me, is I don't know at leasteven I don't know what that I
don't know what the intentionwas for the moment of killing
him.
Really I don't know what Itruly think.
The metaphor quote unquote iswater matters.
I feel right about it, like Ifeel good about it, like I'm
feeling good that he killed himout of like mercy or something.
(47:40):
You know.
It's like Lenny in of mice andmen.
You know what I mean.
Like it's got that kind of likeparallel, but I can't define
why or what and that is reallywhy that's a true complex moment
in human emotions, reallyimpactful.
That's why it's very powerful.
It's more powerful than himrunning away.
It just by being followed byhim running away.
(48:02):
The running away is what Icarry through the action, but it
starts.
If he just left him and ranaway, I wouldn't remember.
Speaker 3 (48:08):
Yeah or definitely.
Speaker 2 (48:10):
I mean, he hugs him.
He hugs him and then has thatlast line let's go.
And so it's that thing.
To your point earlier about hadeverybody else seen him
lobotomized?
But he's like no, I'm going toleave.
I'm actually going to do whatwe talked about, which is get
out of here, and the only way totake you with me is in spirit.
Speaker 1 (48:34):
You know, the rest of you is gone and it's just oh,
heartbreaking you guys wannaknow a couple of facts that I
got pulled up here about thefilm.
Give me some Kind of here in theend here.
So Jack Nicholson, thecharacter in the book, is
described completely differently.
He showed up with a beardactually in the beginning,
thinking that's how he thoughtthe character would look and
(48:55):
Milo's was like absolutely nothad him shave it off.
And in fact at the end of thefilm Milo's and Jack Nicholson
weren't even talking to eachother.
They were going through the DPfor notes Like they really had a
big.
They had a big difference ofopinion on how the mode and it
all came down to the motivationsof Jack Nicholson's character.
(49:16):
Oh, yeah, yeah and yeah, mcmill, yeah and McMurphy, and he
couldn't.
Yeah, and they also.
I don't know if you noticedthis, but Nurse Ratchet never
calls him McMurphy.
She always fucks his name upevery single time.
She calls him a different name.
Speaker 3 (49:30):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (49:30):
So I think it's McMurray or something like that.
I tried clocked that this watchfirst and I was like, oh,
that's a smart choice, becausemost people won't probably catch
that, and to your point, hecalls her by her first name once
.
Well, the book doesn't have afirst name for her, the actor
Chol.
She has it.
Louise made it up.
Right, yeah, she made it upwhat she made.
Speaker 2 (49:51):
What was it, do you know?
Oh, before I say it, do youremember?
Speaker 1 (49:54):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I don't know, I don't know, I
ruined it.
I ruined it, oh man.
Speaker 3 (49:57):
I ruined it.
It's fine.
Speaker 2 (49:58):
it's fine, I'm sorry, don't watch Sixth Sense next to
Steve.
Oh, that guy's dead.
Oh, hey, no idea.
Speaker 3 (50:08):
It looks like.
What amazes me is her careerafter that wasn't great.
I mean, she should have beeneverything after that.
You know, yeah, but no, it'samazing.
Speaker 1 (50:18):
Yeah, it really is.
Did you know that Dr Spivey wasactual doctor and he was the
guy that ran?
I think they filmed this, andwas it?
It was in Oregon somewhere,portland.
Speaker 2 (50:27):
McMurray it was in Oregon.
Speaker 1 (50:28):
Yeah, in Oregon yeah, and he ran that hospital and
they were having trouble findinga hospital because Milos only
wanted to shoot on location.
He did not want to shoot onstage because he believed in
location shooting.
And they couldn't find ahospital because they
lobotomized patients, theyshocked these patients.
It's not a good look on ahospital, so no hospital to
(50:48):
support them.
This doctor said yes, dr DeanBrooks, he plays the doctor in
the film.
He's great.
He's great.
It's it improved.
Apparently it was only twotakes the scene he did with in
the beginning, with JackNicholson.
He didn't know what the hell hewas doing.
He's just a normal person, he'sa doctor.
And he did two takes of it andthat was it and it worked out.
Speaker 2 (51:08):
Amazing, yeah, two takes and only one take when.
Speaker 1 (51:13):
And it wasn't and sorry, sorry, sorry, before we
go to the end, it wasn't thatthey gave it out of.
Initially I was like, oh well,he's gonna give it out of some
kind of hubris Like he wants tobe in the movie.
He actually wanted to do itbecause he wanted to use it as a
diagonal or like some kind ofexample for his patients of what
bad is Like.
So he wasn't like some kind ofand maybe there were some hubris
in there that wasn't purelyhubris.
Speaker 2 (51:35):
Wow, yeah, oh no, all I was gonna say was that that's
which is amazing, that it's twotakes and it was only one take
and kind of get it.
It's when Chief runs into themain hallway with the entire
like waterworks in his hands,they had like they had like five
cameras rolling and they'relike we gotta get it.
(51:56):
And that was just one take andthen they got it.
I did wanna point out this isnot a fact, so, but this is just
me how I process the movie.
Is that in the beginning of themovie, the opening shot right,
you remember?
It's over, there's this justcar from a distance, and it's
(52:17):
golden hour, it's either, or atleast it feels like it, so it's
either sunrise or sunset, butit's just like very cold and in
the distance is a huge mountainand then it's planes in the
foreground and then there's acar.
You see the headlights movingtowards the camera, and then at
the end, what is it?
(52:37):
It's rolling hills away andyou've got a man running away
from the camera and the hillsare just low enough behind in
the background that you canfinally see the sky, and it's
like the first time they reallykind of focus on that.
The rest of it, the.
Anytime you would look up, itwas either surrounded by fence
(52:57):
or you had the I mean, you hadthe moment in the boat, but
they're still surrounded bywater.
You can't get away fromanything and there it is.
At the end, they take thatbeginning image they have and
transpose it, whereas instead ofa mountain blocking it, you can
see the full horizon.
Just, I don't know.
That's just kind of hit me thatI didn't.
I missed the first time, butemotionally must have gotten.
Speaker 1 (53:19):
Another fact a lot of methodactic going on in this
movie and there one of thethings in here Danny this is not
necessarily method acting, butDanny DeVito was kept away from
his girlfriend at the time.
Rio Perman Ultimately ends upmarrying him from Cheers, rio
Perman.
Speaker 3 (53:37):
Plays a.
Speaker 1 (53:38):
I forget her character name, but she's a big,
prominent character in Cheersand apparently he developed
himself an imaginary friend as acoping mechanism, to the point
where people were reallyconcerned about him because he
was talking to his imaginaryfriend all the time.
Speaker 2 (53:55):
That, yep, I believe it.
I mean, he was like Cheswick.
I see you, I'm going to, I'mgonna raise you one.
Speaker 1 (54:02):
And again he was like Dr Brooks guy, that's the
doctor and the thing.
He went to the doctor and saidlike hey, this is a problem.
And the doctor said, as long asyou can recognize that this is
not a real person, that's not aproblem.
So, but the doctor actually didmore work on this too.
I can't I'm trying to find theactor's name, but the guy who
played the super intellectualguy they opened up the opening
(54:25):
scene and he's like my wife ischeating on me and you're
perfect.
Oh, the character Harman.
Yeah, renfeld, I think, is veryI'm sorry I'm just gonna
butcher this, but his, I thinkhis last name is Renfeld.
Does that remember it from,like the Dracula book?
Anyway, he died.
The reason there were a lot inthe book.
Apparently he's a lot moreprominent character.
Do you remember that Tim himbeing?
(54:45):
Do you remember him from thebook?
Is he a lot more prominent?
Speaker 3 (54:48):
I forget the book now .
I mean, I barely got throughthat book, you know.
Speaker 1 (54:53):
Well, I'm sorry, you're our resident expert, so
whatever you say has to go.
Speaker 3 (54:57):
I do not have fond memories of reading that book in
a mobile home in Pallibon inthe North Kerry.
It wasn't a dad of an enjoyableread, I must say.
Speaker 2 (55:11):
Yes, that's right.
You're right, it's likeRedfield.
That's the actor.
Redfield.
He played Hardy and you had alittle.
Did you want to continue withthe fact on that Well?
Speaker 1 (55:20):
so he usually.
There were a lot more sceneswith him.
He was a lot more prominentcharacter, very strong character
, came out early but apparentlythe man was dying of leukemia so
he could not actually be in thefilm after they were already
started.
So and how that was discoveredis Dr Brooks again noticed him
doing something or whatever andsaid, hey, I think you have a
problem.
And look at this, it turns outhe had very, a very bad course
(55:43):
of leukemia and was yeah, and heended up dying shortly after
the film.
So very, very tragic, verytragic sort of thing.
Speaker 2 (55:50):
Well, in the middle of that tragedy, the, I want to
point out one of my favoritemoments with him is on the boat.
They're about to take thefishing boat out and Jack's
caught, or Mack is caught and helooks at the harbour master and
he goes oh well, we're from theinstitution, this is Dr
Cheswick, this is Dr, and hegoes and he names everybody Dr,
(56:13):
dr, dr.
He gets to Harding and he goes.
Speaker 1 (56:16):
Mr yes, Dr, dr, dr.
He does is fabulous, it's sogood, it is such a fabulous
detail.
I was like you're such a dick.
Back to the method.
Acting I think is my last fact.
They called for McMurphy toleap on a guard and kiss him and
during the filming Milo'sdecided the guard's reaction
wasn't strong, wasn't goodenough, and so he told him to
(56:38):
jump on the other guard.
And then he did and in thecamera it was a total like out
of the spur of the moment sortof thing, and you can see,
before they cut away, thatthey're like.
The other actor starts punchingJack Nicholson.
Ha ha, ha, ha ha ha.
So he starts fighting back onhim.
Speaker 2 (56:55):
That's amazing.
And one last thing for me on animpression and because I do, I
want to get final impressionsfrom you guys as well the one
thing that hit me that I think Ididn't notice and then forgot
it was the same year.
So do you remember the moment?
It's right after he kisses himand this is at the top of the
(57:16):
movie Mac looks up and he's inthe foyer and he looks up or
four years, sorry, and uh,that's okay, you can be, you can
be.
I'm the weak condo sender, nojudgment here and as I drink my
coffee in tonic and he looks upfrom the lobby and then it's
like this huge staircase thatgoes around and around and
(57:37):
there's people that look over,kind of judging from the top,
and I don't know if you remember, it happens very briefly in
their sunglasses or whatever andthey just look over at him from
this spiral staircase.
I immediately went oh my God,that's the same scene from when
Frank and Ferdinand is about tointroduce Eddie in no way.
(57:57):
Yeah, in Rocky Horror, and youlook up and it's just like
everybody in their beautifuloutfits and their sunglasses
looking down.
Speaker 1 (58:02):
You think it's the?
Speaker 2 (58:03):
same set.
It's not the same set at all,but it's that same moment of
looking up and the reaction tothe camera's reaction, how it
frames it, and I was like it's.
I haven't gone back to watch it, but emotionally I had the
exact same reaction.
Speaker 1 (58:16):
So you're positing that Rocky Horror Picture Show
stole that from One Fleur of theCoons?
Speaker 2 (58:21):
No, no because they came out the same year.
The same year, yeah, so I justthink there's something in the
vocabulary at the time that wasshared and then was being
expressed simultaneously in thatmoment.
Holy crap, man.
So that's just something thatstuck out for me as we go
through.
Are there some final thoughtsor something that stuck out with
you, timothy?
Speaker 3 (58:44):
Just how entertaining Jack Nicholson is and what a
presence on the screen.
Everything he does is great.
There's always a great sense ofhumor there.
It doesn't matter what he'ssaying or what he's doing.
There's an enjoyment towatching him and he's sensitive
with his sense of humor, whichis great.
(59:06):
He's always playing very well.
Very often he's playing theunderdog or whatever the
misunderstood type of rebel guy.
He's never part of the systemusually or part of normal people
.
As a person himself and as anactor, he's not a normal person.
His characters are not normalpeople.
(59:28):
They say things that normalpeople want to say but aren't
brave enough to say, or whatever.
Speaker 1 (59:36):
Here's the real question Does this movie hold up
?
I just watched it again for thefirst time.
Matt, I'll start with you.
Does this movie hold up for you?
More than ever, more than ever,more powerful than ever, tim,
does this movie hold up for you?
Speaker 3 (59:50):
I think it does.
It looks a lot simpler thanwhat I remembered when I watched
it originally.
I think movies then weresimpler and I think that's a
testimony to the writing in thatthere was a certain formula
where you have a start,beginning and an end.
You have a high point or a lowpoint, and that's a problem, and
(01:00:16):
that's resolved.
Then it comes to the big climaxand that's resolved and then it
goes up.
There was a formula to writingmovies in those days and it
really worked in this case.
Nowadays you'd be very lucky tosee a movie that works from
beginning to end.
Usually movies nowadays haveone good act or two good acts or
(01:00:39):
three good acts, but rarely dothey have four good acts or
whatever.
It was simple, but it was soeffective and it still stands up
for me.
Speaker 1 (01:00:52):
Absolutely.
I'll jump in and I'll say againI think this movie definitely
holds up.
I will say it definitelylaunches in my mind a vertical
of films that come across thenext bit of time.
I think without this, filmslike Awakenings don't happen.
(01:01:13):
Films like Rain man, beautifulMind, patch Adams and other
Robin and the Wings movies Ithink they all pull from the
well of this film of One FlewOver the Cuckoo's Nest.
If you don't have the successof this, and films that are able
to tell this complex, dramatic,hospital-oriented story that
(01:01:37):
these other films don't evenexist.
I think, even if this film isnot for you, there's something
to appreciate about it becauseit did open doors beyond it.
Speaker 2 (01:01:47):
That's a great point.
Lastly, to continue on what yousaid with, why I said, it more
than ever is because of thesimplicity, tim, that you
mentioned, and, Steve, the filmsthat I've seen, the films I
probably saw first and thendidn't realize they came from
this.
Speaker 1 (01:02:06):
I think they are full-on, like derivative.
Not derivative, no, butinspired and just informed.
Speaker 2 (01:02:12):
And also it's the whole point and, tim, you
touched on this earlier it'slike this is real.
This is like when Milo saw itand he's like this is real.
This is what I want to do.
I'm not going to put a spin onthis and then that reality just
comes through with every singleperformance and the way it was
shot and the script.
So that's why.
Speaker 1 (01:02:31):
So, Tim, where should people follow you to know more
about you?
Speaker 3 (01:02:40):
I suppose I have an Instagram account.
I don't have a YouTube channelor anything like that.
Well, since I'm frigginunemployed now as an actor,
maybe I will, you know, you'regoing to get some tutorials
going.
Speaker 1 (01:02:55):
You're going to get some tutorials going.
Speaker 3 (01:02:58):
No, I could talk about fucking life and my
opinion and life and my opinionon that.
Speaker 1 (01:03:04):
I'm saying we need to start like Tim Murphy Trims
Chrysanthemums.
Like I want that series.
Speaker 3 (01:03:14):
I love it.
Yeah, I would like you know.
But I would love to do like adocumentary because I love
history.
A documentary I write amotorcycle through the Navajo
Reservation and ride horses withthe Navajo and Monument Valley
and stuff and then go on to theLakota Res.
(01:03:35):
You know, have a motorcycletrip up along the west going
from reservation to reservationand hearing about what their
views on life and land andeverything is.
Speaker 1 (01:03:45):
Oh, that would be beautiful.
That would be beautiful man.
Speaker 3 (01:03:49):
But I'm looking forward to our movie coming out.
It was such a pleasure workingwith you guys.
It's a fried fest, is that whatit's on?
Speaker 1 (01:04:00):
Yep, it's fried fest, it's fall, that'll be coming
out.
Speaker 3 (01:04:03):
It's London, and then I have a bunch of movies coming
out I mean what I love in thelast number of years, and I
think what's going to happen now, with all this striking and
everything, is Independentmovies are on the way back,
which is great.
It's just a matter of gettingthe finance without ruining the
movie by hiring some star thatisn't suitable in a type of
(01:04:23):
thing.
You did a masterful job inhiring a bunch of you know, just
a bunch of actors and not somebig, friggin' star or something
in it.
I have a movie coming out withJohn Travolta I think I'm going
to a screening in a couple ofweeks of that one and there's a
couple of other about three moreindependence I did which will
(01:04:44):
be coming out, I suppose, in thenext year or something.
Speaker 1 (01:04:47):
Well, Tim, you're always working on stuff and
you're a great guy and we loveworking with you.
Speaker 2 (01:04:53):
Getting to hang out with you is always awesome.
Hanging out with you at familytime yeah, exactly this is great
.
Speaker 3 (01:04:59):
I know it's great and hopefully we do Western in
Missouri, you know.
Speaker 1 (01:05:03):
I know we just got to figure out what that's going to
be A spaghetti Western.
It's a spaghetti Western wherea cowboy eats only spaghetti.
It is his only diet.
Speaker 3 (01:05:12):
I love it.
Speaker 1 (01:05:13):
He's an Italian.
Speaker 3 (01:05:15):
I was talking to a friggin' friend of mine from the
Canary Islands and apparentlyif you can get $500,000, they'll
give you the other $500,000.
So they'll finance it 50% orsomething.
Speaker 2 (01:05:29):
Yeah, there you go.
Speaker 1 (01:05:32):
Well, Tim, it is absolutely fabulous hanging out
with you.
Man, I really appreciate youcoming in and hanging out with
us.
Thanks for having us watch OneFloor of the Cuckoo's Nest.
It was great to revisit it, man.
Speaker 3 (01:05:44):
I'm glad you did, guys.
It's great and great chat withyou guys.
It was so easy to conversation,which is always good.
Speaker 1 (01:05:50):
Hell yeah, man.
Yeah, you got it.
Until next time, bro.
Thanks Tim.
Speaker 3 (01:06:09):
Take care boys, Good luck.
In a movie where the person you're supposed to root
for admits to statutory rape inthe first 10 minutes and then
never gets mentioned again.
It's one flew over the cuckoo'snest.
Let's go, let's see a movie.
The year it is 1975 and we havean eight-time Oscar-winning
(00:33):
film here, considered by many tobe one of the best films ever
made 1975, also coming out thisyear's Rocky Horror Picture Show
, the Passenger, barry Linden,nashville, dog Day Afternoon,
monty Python and the Holy Grailand, of course, jaws.
This is a one-flu over thecuckoo's nest.
I'm gonna admit I'd not seenthis movie in probably ten years
(00:56):
before last night, so it tookme a minute to kinda jump back
in.
But, man, it is a very goodmovie.
With me, as always, is co-hostMatt Mundy.
Matt, how are you doing?
Speaker 2 (01:05):
I'm great man, Even after just the ride that that
movie is.
I just re-watched it recentlytoo.
It is just so beautiful.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
It really is.
I mean it just kinda.
It says a whole lot and it is avery big political statement
that I don't think I really gotwhen I first watched this when I
was younger.
Speaker 2 (01:23):
Oh, there's so much I missed.
There's so much I missed earlyon.
It's just an amazing, perfectfilm for reviewing because
there's so many layers.
Speaker 1 (01:32):
Yeah, I mean really so many layers, Really a true
art film.
And, of course, we are joinedtoday by our very special guest.
You guys will know him from avery impressive acting resume
that includes scenes dealing,performances and hit shows like
Westworld, True Detective, youknow, blockbuster films like
National Treasure, Book ofSecrets and Lone Ranger and, of
(01:52):
course, Sons of Anarchy, wherehe won 2013 BuzzFocus Readers'
Choice Award for Best Villainour friend and amazing actor,
Timothy V Murphy Tim, great tohave you here, man.
Speaker 3 (02:05):
Same here, guys.
Love being with you.
Speaker 1 (02:08):
How are you doing today?
Everything starting off okay,having a good chill morning.
Speaker 3 (02:13):
I am, yeah.
Got the kids after their summercamp, got the wife off to work
and now I'm chilling with theboys.
Basically, yeah, yeah, there wego.
Speaker 1 (02:20):
Now that they're all out of here, it is also a great
time to go ahead and bring upour cocktail for this episode.
This cocktail was designed byour friend Nick over at
Wolfhound.
Wolfhound is in Astoria.
You can follow Nick as atNickSpaceMan.
He calls this one a nurseratcheted which you designed for
today.
Tim, do you want to?
(02:42):
Do you want to?
I know, first of all, tim, Ithink, a hot take here.
You're an Irishman, so we knowyou're into whiskey and, I
assume, guinness.
So we made sure we set you upfor success here and got you a
great gin drink.
I love it.
We went full-on English on you.
Just hope you know, just tomake sure you know we love you.
Speaker 3 (03:02):
Yeah, definitely.
I mean quin.
It wasn't a tonic, it wasquinine in the to go with the
gin and tonic that they used todrink in India during the
colonial period to keep themalaria away and the mosquitoes
away.
Speaker 1 (03:19):
Exactly, yeah, and if you ever drink tonic by itself,
it's not like seltzer water,which is downright awesome.
It is.
You know, tonic is a horrorshow of a drink if you drink it
by itself.
Speaker 2 (03:30):
I'm going to go off on a tangent here for a hot
second and before we get back tothe cocktail, I love tonic.
Really.
You like tonic, just straightup as is.
I do, and I'm just this is notsponsored, but I just want to
throw this out there.
In the summer I have a newfavorite drink.
It is cold brew over ice, withtonic and an orange peel.
Speaker 1 (03:51):
That sounds disgusting.
Where did you come?
Speaker 2 (03:53):
up with that.
I was lost and I lost a bet.
That is no, it is ridiculous.
I was seeing a friend's showout in Long Island and, anyway,
the only things out there weresuper fru-fru coffee drinks and
I was like, can I just get acold?
You know, just a cold brewcoffee.
And they're like, would youlike it with orange and tonic?
(04:15):
And I just said, sure, I liveon the edge.
And it was awesome.
I haven't turned back.
I actually was drinking itbefore I came in today.
Speaker 1 (04:24):
No way, dude.
That is crazy.
Tim, have you ever tried coldbrew with tonic?
Speaker 3 (04:28):
No, I'm from Kerry in Ireland.
We don't usually drink thatkind of stuff.
Speaker 2 (04:34):
Just very coffee.
I may have a last name, Mundy,but I think I just gave my Irish
card back.
Speaker 1 (04:42):
Tim, all right.
So what do we got If peoplewant to make this drink at home
and drink along with us, for thenurse ratcheted.
What are we doing here?
Speaker 3 (04:50):
Well, one ounce of misguided gin, one ounce of
doulin or doulin genetti.
Speaker 1 (04:59):
And this is a great time to interrupt be like I'm
having you do this because Ican't pronounce half the shit on
this list and neither can I.
Speaker 3 (05:05):
I mean, I don't even know if I'm pronouncing it right
One ounce of velvet Valernumand one ounce of lime juice.
Now you shake and strain intococktail rocks, glass, serve on
the rocks with cherry garnishincluded in bag.
And I think if you drink enoughof them, you might think you're
(05:25):
back in Ireland.
So, fucking, it might be a badway to call you.
Speaker 1 (05:30):
I love that we ended up with a gin drink for you,
because I feel like the onlything I want to do with you is
just get fucked up on whiskey,like I would just like to do,
like a bourbon night.
You know what I mean.
Speaker 3 (05:45):
Well, you could drink bourbon, being from Missouri
and I could drink whiskey, beingfrom County Kerry in Ireland.
Speaker 2 (05:50):
Great.
Now, there you go.
I'll just drink my frickingtonic in the corner.
Speaker 1 (05:53):
Yeah, you drink your cold brew and whatever tonic
concoction you're doing, feelingthe love.
So, Tim, I text you and this isa.
This is a movie that's near anddear to you.
I asked, like, what's a moviewhen it's on in the hotel that
you'll always turn on becauseyou travel, a lot working, so
why?
Why?
Cuckoo's Nest?
Speaker 3 (06:13):
I don't know, I've always.
I mean, I grew up, you know,1975.
I was 15.
In my teenage years we saw themost amazing movies.
You went to the theater.
You saw the I mean a horrormovie with Jaws that year, as
you said, you know, I mean BarryLyndon was not a great Kubrick
(06:34):
Movie, but it was shot inIreland and it looked beautiful
and it has its own beauty, youknow.
And and then, of course, onefloor of the Cuckoo's Nest.
I remember reading the book.
I think it was by Ken Keezy,one of the, the, the, the, the,
the beat kind of generationwriters, and I actually didn't
think much of the book, andusually the book is better than
(06:56):
the film.
And then I saw the film becauseI heard a lot about it.
It was about to come out andthey were saying it's going to
be good and all that.
And, oh my God, it was so muchbetter than the book.
I found the book boring and itwas like Jack Nicholson was just
, you know, so alive and so.
Speaker 1 (07:15):
I mean these movies in the 70s with Jack Nicholson.
Anything he is in is just, Imean just over the top fears
Like he's just crushingUnbelievable.
Speaker 3 (07:23):
Unbelievable, Like I mean I saw, you know I think,
got bad reviews that year.
Missouri Breaks yeah With, with, with, with Nicholson and
Brando.
You know Brando dressed up as awoman and killing people and
stuff and I mean the movies thatwere making were like fucking
and the actors were just.
I suppose those actors weregiven an opportunity to really
(07:45):
show, show themselves, which notmany actors are allowed to do
anymore.
Speaker 1 (07:51):
I mean, the cast is incredible.
But one thing I think Ken Caseyhated this movie, didn't he?
He didn't, he's never watchedit.
Speaker 3 (07:58):
Are you serious?
Speaker 1 (08:00):
Yeah, I'm pretty sure that's like urban legend that
he, like he's, he hated themovie, he hated the direction
Milo's was taking it, directedby, obviously, the amazing, oh
my.
Speaker 3 (08:10):
God, his last name, Milo Swarman.
I was like his last nameescaped me.
Speaker 1 (08:12):
Yeah, and he, but he, he was so Ken Casey.
He thought it was going in sucha bad direction.
He was did not agree with whatthey were doing, because the
movie was the book is from thechief's perspective, I believe.
Yeah, so I've not read the bookthat usually I've read.
I've read quite a few of theclassics, but I've not read this
one in this.
Speaker 3 (08:32):
It's not a classic.
When I was 15, I was by board,but then I was a 15 year old, so
fuck it, yeah, right.
Speaker 1 (08:43):
I don't think he's ever so.
The urban legend, or whatever,says he's only ever seen part of
it and he accidentally turnedit on at a hotel and watch part.
As soon as he realized what itwas, he turned it off.
Speaker 3 (08:53):
God.
And then again, kirk Douglaswas already pissed off that he
was in the league, because Ithink he played the lead on
Broadway.
Speaker 1 (09:00):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (09:01):
And his son produced it.
Speaker 2 (09:03):
Yeah, and his son didn't cast him.
Speaker 3 (09:05):
I didn't cast him.
He got the rights to the work.
Speaker 1 (09:08):
So he was.
He started it on Broadway,right yeah.
And who?
Who starred as Billy littleBilly on Broadway?
Gene Wilder, oh, that's right.
Oh my God who.
Speaker 3 (09:21):
I love yeah.
Speaker 1 (09:22):
It was incredible.
It was incredible the only careonly cast member that from
Broadway that made it into thefilm.
Speaker 2 (09:27):
Danny DeVito, danny DeVito, danny DeVito.
That's amazing.
He's the only one.
Speaker 1 (09:31):
Everyone else didn't make it and he anyway.
But yeah, he, michael Douglasplayed, or Kirk Douglas, sorry,
he played the very different.
Douglas played the McMurphy,right Played the Murphy on
Broadway yeah exactly and wantedto probably got the rights to
the book.
Wanted to do it was insistingwas his thing, it was going to
be his role and then just couldnever get it produced and aged
(09:54):
out and his son got the rightsto it.
Well and it's crazy too.
Speaker 2 (09:57):
So that is like in.
So that was like 61 when that,when they did it on Broadway and
it ran for like five, sixmonths and then they sent it to
Milo Shformin to look at thescreenplay, to try to
immediately do it because theycouldn't get anybody to, you
know, give him any money.
And then for 10 years there wasno back and forth between Milo
(10:20):
and the Douglass is.
And when they finally did talk,michael was like so why didn't
you call my dad back?
And he's like what are youtalking about?
And he figured he just after hesaid, hey, do you want to do
this?
And then he didn't send me thescreenplay.
Come to find out in that 10years when it, when he sent the
(10:40):
screenplay to Milo Shformin, itgot held up at the sensors at
customs and neither of them,yeah, and neither of them knew
that for 10 years.
So that's when Michael tookover and was like, sorry, dad, I
think you aged out.
Speaker 1 (10:53):
And I mean how heartbreaking, if you like, have
a role that you did at thattime also 1960s, 1950s, broadway
, like I mean that is, you'retalking height of popularity,
that's like competing oh yeah,you got to be competing with
Hollywood, like I mean, you area fucking star if you were on
this.
And then you just he was what?
In his fifties when they madethe film, I mean I don't know
(11:15):
actually his age, but he wasthey obviously thought he was
too old.
But could you imagine this role, even by a brilliant actor like
that?
But being 50 years old it justtotally changes the dynamic.
He needs to be young anddangerous and Jack Nicholson is
perfect for that.
Speaker 2 (11:30):
Yeah, Tim, did you see the last detail?
Speaker 3 (11:36):
I did, which I love this.
Well, that was the two sailors,wasn't it?
Yes, it was, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:44):
Well, I love because and you've seen five easy pieces
and easy writer right.
Speaker 3 (11:48):
I mean the scenes are that.
I mean some of those moviesthey're brilliant to watch, but
they wouldn't.
You know, they went on too longor whatever.
But there's certain scenes inthose movies that are like
fucking phenomenal, yeah.
Speaker 2 (12:03):
Yeah, well, and apparently it was.
And the reason I askedspecifically about the last
detail I didn't know this, butapparently Milo Schorman was
like I don't know about Jackhe's.
I've seen him do five easypieces, easy writer, but I am
not sure.
And then I think it was MichaelDouglas said watch the last
detail.
And then that's when herealized oh, he's huge, he can
(12:24):
do this.
Speaker 3 (12:25):
Yeah, yeah.
And you know, when I, when Ilooked at it, when I looked at
that movie way back then, Ithought it was quite a complex
movie and longer than that.
Then, when I watch it, when Iwatched it again later on, years
later, it's quite a simplelittle movie, you know the story
(12:45):
is simple, the scenes aresimple, his performance is
amazing, but it's like it wasnot.
It's not a long movie and itdefinitely didn't bore me or
anything like that, and it's.
It's very watchable still,which is great, because some of
them don't age well, you knowthose things, that's a great
point.
Speaker 2 (13:05):
I was going to say why do you think it was so?
Even being simple that it was,it's still so compelling yeah.
Speaker 3 (13:12):
Well, I think that simplicity now is lost in the
movies.
If you look at those terriblesuperhero movies with all their
flying around and all this kindof crap, I think that the
simpler you can keep something,the better it is.
Really.
You don't have to be breakingthe mold every time, I think.
(13:38):
And there were very goodwriters back then.
I mean, the screenwriters backthen were amazing.
They came from the writers ofthe 50s, which were amazing.
And yeah, they say the greatwriters are on television or
whatever.
But who knows where the greatwriters are coming?
But I think great writing greatwriting is if you can make a
(14:01):
simple little story interesting.
Speaker 1 (14:04):
Simple is the hardest thing to do.
Yes, you can hide behindspectacle.
You can hide behind style.
Speaker 3 (14:11):
You cannot hide behind simplicity no, but I
think if you hire the rightactors and get a simple script
and the dialogue is good and thescenario, I mean it's hard now
to get actors like that, becausethey're not made like that very
much anymore.
Speaker 1 (14:33):
I mean we've got to talk about the cast.
The cast is incredible.
They're big, notable names thatare just known for chewing up
the scenery, and then somereally subtle actors in there
too.
But I mean you have DannyDeVito in here that is doing
amazing.
The guy's been incredible hisentire career.
And Chris Lloyd, I mean ChrisVerloyde, I mean these.
(14:54):
I could not.
If you named three bananaslevel actors from the 1980s,
it's probably going to be ChrisVerloyde, danny DeVito and Jack
Nicholson.
Speaker 2 (15:04):
You know like they're going to be on the list at
least, and then theunderappreciated Vincent
Scallari as well.
Speaker 1 (15:09):
Yeah, yeah, I mean, but they were just.
I've ever been across the boardis absolutely crushing on this
film.
One of the things that was.
Speaker 3 (15:20):
Like it's often said, there are no small parts, and
in that movie there actuallywere no small parts.
Speaker 1 (15:27):
You know, one of the you said simple and the initial,
when I was watching this movieand what I remembered from this
movie when I was younger becauseI think I saw this movie and I
was, very, like you know, in 10early teens, my early teens and
I didn't get it and I actuallydidn't think nurse ratchet was a
bad person when I first saw it.
It just emulated too much ofwhat I was used to in like
Catholic school and you know,things like that was just too
(15:49):
familiar.
Speaker 3 (15:49):
We all were like that , exactly it was too familiar.
Speaker 1 (15:51):
I was like, oh, that's just who that is.
I mean you can't fuck with her,she's going to, she's going to
snap back.
But when I wasn't reallycertain that Jack Nicholson had
an arc.
But then watching it this timeit is subtle.
But it is so specific and itcomes through in two specific
points in the film because hisarc for me is an emotional arc,
which again is why this movieworks, is because it's he starts
(16:14):
off as a guy trying to.
It's a bad guy, literallyarrested for a statutory rape
and assault and all these otherthings and terrible things that
he admits that he has no remorsewhatsoever.
He's just fucking the systemover to get into, you know, to
get out of work.
Detail.
That's how it all starts.
In the end he is here beforebefore the ultimate twist at the
end.
He's there to support and makethe lives better of these new
(16:36):
friends of his right.
He like he is sort of a part ofthis family and he has.
He cares for these charactersthat he's surrounded, like it,
and I think the two points.
That really solidifies that isboth times he could get away.
Now this might also be a thingthat I'm not super into with you
know the psychological, youknow disease he supposedly has,
(16:56):
but he escapes and doesn't runaway.
He steals a bus and takes allof them out on a fishing trip
and then second time he gets thekey open, he opens the window
but he can't leave.
I think these are intentionaldecisions to tell you that he is
a character that cares aboutthese other people and doesn't
know.
You know he, their satisfactionis the, the, the, the genesis,
and what makes him reallyimportant as a character.
(17:18):
So just, it's such anincredible arc for somebody that
starts off so cold and ends upbeing so warm and he tries to
kill Snir, nurse Ratchet, causewhat he did, what she did to
Billy.
Speaker 3 (17:30):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (17:32):
I was going to say, tim, what I was going to say.
Do those moments stand out foryou as like two of those big
moments the, the ability to getaway.
Speaker 3 (17:41):
They do, the ability to get away.
And you know, do you realize,the second time, if he doesn't
go, he's fucked.
Please go, please go.
Speaker 1 (17:47):
The whole time you're like why are you not just out
the damn window, man?
Speaker 3 (17:52):
Why did you all just get drunk, you know, and and not
the, and just yeah, becausehe's, he should have gone, but
yeah, those, and then you don'tsee.
You know what what I love?
You know what I?
What I love is I love JessicaChastain, but she did a movie
and I think she went and askedher for it about, about, uh, uh,
(18:14):
you know, catching Osama BinLaden or something.
Speaker 1 (18:17):
Is it the Zero Dark Thirty?
Speaker 3 (18:19):
Yeah so, but then the camera was waiting for her to
cry, basically, and you knowshe's great emotional actress.
I love her work actually, but Iknow it's the director's choice
or her choice or the movie orhow it was edited or whatever.
But it looked like they werejust waiting there for her to
give her moment of the tears orwhatever.
You know, there was a onemoment like that there.
(18:40):
I mean Jack, never I don'tthink he ever broke down.
He always kept the spirit going.
That's what I love about, aboutthat character and about Jack's
performance and about MickeyRourke's performance and the
wrestler.
They're really difficultcircumstances.
They they bring in humor.
It's a very Irish way ofdealing with Well it's the
(19:01):
defense mechanism, is thestruggle.
Speaker 1 (19:03):
I would argue that he does have one moment that he
shows you know what I call thecountermask like what he
presents the world versus whathe actually is.
And the countermask shows forme when he's laying on the cot
right before he gets the electroshock and he's making jokes and
stuff, but you can feel, oh no,you do.
There's a tangible sense thathe's lost it, he's panicking.
Speaker 3 (19:23):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:25):
That's it.
Speaker 3 (19:27):
And that that because of that, that, that moment that
really, I mean I even thinkingabout it makes me emotional here
.
I'm just okay, I'm, you knowyou freaking panic when you're.
I mean, I remember I sufferedfrom frigging, you know,
claustrophobia at one stage andall that right and how I got
(19:49):
over was I went down to thedeepest frigging cave in Ireland
to see if I could get over.
But before I went in there toface my demons and my fears, I
was joking and laughing andfucking talking a mile a minute.
I was as nervous as shit, but Iwas portraying this thing that
you know.
So yeah, yeah, that's.
Speaker 1 (20:10):
that's why I mean I have a similar thing.
I mean you just went fullBatman on that, like Nolan.
Batman, You're like I'm justgoing to go down into the bat
cave and be engulfed in bats.
Speaker 3 (20:19):
Fuck it.
Speaker 2 (20:19):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's totally what I was
thinking about, okay.
Speaker 3 (20:25):
And I cured myself.
Speaker 1 (20:26):
So fucking cured myself, so fucking.
I mean it's so many great andyou wanted the things you said
about the cast earlier I want tocome back to because I think
most of this film it was one ofthose approaches, sort of I
guess in the camp of Nashville,in that kind of like world,
where it's like improv and golike where they're really just
playing and the cameras are justrolling, which is really a
(20:48):
scary way to shoot.
But I think with this kind of Imean is Sydney Lassick actually
had a meltdown.
The guy that plays a oh my God,I forget the character's name
oh, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (20:58):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:59):
Yeah, he, literally, they were worried about him,
cheswick.
Speaker 1 (21:03):
They were worried about him on set.
Speaker 2 (21:04):
Yeah, yeah, but yeah, even Louise Fletcher said at
one point, the camera, she justassumed the cameras were always
rolling, which actually made herrelax.
She's like I couldn't figureout when they were going to be
rolling or not rolling, or whenthey were taking a rehearsal or
it was a take and she had.
She was so worked up about it.
And then finally she came overto the top and was like well, I
(21:26):
was just relaxed, assuming as Iwas on camera the whole time.
Speaker 3 (21:29):
God, she was amazing, I thought.
But like, if you look at Jackand you and you look at the you
know and the direct direction,the director and just the movie
itself was like you know, yeah,there there's, there's a guy
who's trying to, who's trying tocheat the system, basically you
know he's trying to, but it'sthe system, it's the big man,
(21:49):
it's the bad guy.
Really the system is bad.
So why shouldn't I, a bad guylike me, fuck with it?
You know?
And he thinks he thinks he canget away with that, you know.
And then he wants you know he'sfor his fellow men.
You know these are good men,these are kind, these are
sensitive, these are lovelypeople.
Fuck the machine, fuck the bigguys up there with the money and
(22:11):
the government and everybodytrying to control us.
You know we can be buddies, wecan defeat this system.
But the nicer you are, thesofter you are, the the more
sensitive you are.
You're going to get fucked.
Speaker 1 (22:24):
That's a great transition to be like do you get
?
What do you get?
What do you guys think the likeI mean not like the higher
metaphor, but this is ametaphoric movie Like this movie
is straight up like 1984.
For me, like George Orwell,this thing has something to say.
What do you guys think the kindof, the larger message and
metaphor of this is Tell me youwant to take that one yeah.
Speaker 3 (22:46):
Well, you know, if you look at this day and age,
right, you can't criticizeanything.
If you criticize something, ifyou criticize a government, a
totalitarian government, youknow, not just even within
America.
If you criticize Bush, numbertwo, about the Iraq or Afghan
(23:08):
war, back then, like the DixieChicks, like a, like Mara, that
comedian said, those guys werebrave, or those guys if you
criticize and if, if you wereoppressed, if you were in, if
you're a journalist andquestioned, questioned anything,
Rumsfeld would call you atraitor and dismiss you or
(23:29):
whatever.
Nowadays it's a way worse even.
I mean you can't like, youcan't criticize.
I went on.
I won't say why it's criticizedor anything, but you know I
love human rights and I'm alwaysfor the underdog and I believe
people should be kind to eachother and love each other.
I can't.
You know, Americans should bandtogether right now.
(23:51):
Americans should ban the peoplein America should band together
, not point fingers at eachother, because there's a lot of
totalitarian regimes around theworld banding together right now
.
And the democratic countriesshould band together because, as
bad as they might become,they're not half as bad as those
(24:12):
other places, especially forfreedom of speech or not being
afraid that, like you cancriticize.
You can criticize the fuck outof Biden or Trump, right, but
you probably won't get killed orbe put in jail for it, you know
.
But if you do that to someother countries around the world
, you're going to be in trouble.
Speaker 2 (24:32):
We'll never hear from you again.
Speaker 3 (24:35):
Yeah, exactly, even in this country, like it's you,
I can't.
I have to watch what I sayonline, because if I don't watch
what I say online, I might notget a job in one of the studios
or I might not get there orpeople might take me up as being
not not on their side, soyou're against them, so some
(24:57):
weird shit like that that youcan't even criticize or have an
argument or anything.
Really, you're best keepingyour fucking mouth shut.
But even if you keep your mouthshut, some people might say, oh
, he didn't speak up about that,so he's one of them.
Speaker 1 (25:14):
But I mean I mean, I think you know the discussion,
the days of discussion are nothere currently and I do miss, I
mean, in my lifetime I'm amillennial, you know, I was born
in the 80s, it's like so, youknow, like it is, it's felt like
a very brief window during myadult life where you could
actually have a conversationabout something and not be a win
(25:35):
or lose.
You know there's no like middleground of, I think, this well,
what do you think about this?
And kind of moderation is gone,and I will say that I mean you.
I think this film echoes it andI think that is what is trying
to say in many degrees, and Ithink what you're kind of
commenting on.
It reminds me a lot of likeMcCarthyism.
It reminds me a lot of, I mean,and that's what Milo said, or
(25:56):
Milo, I don't know how youpronounce it- but that's what
the director said he was like I.
people are saying don't do thisfilm because it's you know, the
book is too much of this andit's not gonna.
It's too fantastical, it's notgonna work.
And he's like what are youkidding?
I lived this.
He's like I lived through thecommunist regime.
I was with people that told youthis is how you think, this is
what you do.
And that is real to him.
(26:19):
And I think that that is sortof what this movie is saying.
Speaker 2 (26:23):
for me Interesting for both of you on the political
side, cause I that's, I totallyresonates and I thought my
reaction was more of all aroundthe fact that everybody in there
, except for a few, as we findout in that critical moment, are
in there voluntarily.
(26:44):
And I realized, you know, thisis not a prison, these guys
weren't forced to be here.
So to me, I saw it through alens of our inability to make
the right choice.
And we, you know, look at NurseRatchet, and this goes back to
what again?
(27:04):
To Echo Milosh, where he waslike I didn't see her as evil, I
saw her as the instrument ofevil.
And so here we are as people.
Speaker 1 (27:14):
This is a great quote .
By the way, that is a reallygreat quote for Nurse Ratchet.
That is dead on how I feelabout her, yeah.
Speaker 2 (27:21):
And she, like, I would like to hear it comes
across and I just you know.
Speaker 1 (27:23):
She feels like the kind of character.
I'm sorry to interrupt whereshe walks out of this hospital
and she is, you know, completelya powerless like sort of person
, like she's seeking her powerin this venue, where she
controls it, and outside of here.
Speaker 2 (27:40):
Yeah, when she comes in she's dressed in black.
Then she changes into heruniform and she's the exact same
color as the rest of the place,I didn't notice that.
Speaker 1 (27:47):
What a good decision.
Speaker 2 (27:49):
Yeah, every time she comes in, every time she leaves,
she's in the same outfit, butin black, even the pill hat.
And then, when she's in there,she changes to the white uniform
, which is the exact same coloras everything else.
She becomes part of it, justlike they are.
Speaker 1 (28:03):
There's a moment when she comes in after the party
and man, the party scene is sogreat Like the whole time you're
like they're fucked.
Like there's a moment just inmy life, you know and I think
most people that you know likeyou reach the point you're
watching them and you see themtip over the edge and you're
like, well, you can't clean thisup now.
You're fucked.
Oh yeah, you just crossed theline, you're getting caught now.
(28:27):
And for me it's like wheneverthey open up the door and their
shit on the walls.
Speaker 2 (28:29):
Oh, that's that.
That breaks the moment.
That breaks the moment wherethey send Turkle Scatman out and
you're like, oh, he might saveit.
He's like, oh, it's just me.
Speaker 1 (28:38):
And then, of course, you know, candy opens up and
it's like oh, okay, this is notit's that moment when you're
like in college, at least for meand you're like hanging out
within a place you're notsupposed to be with friends, and
you're like, yeah, if we justkeep it small and we all just
kind of drink and hang out here,we don't fuck anything up.
No, we really bother us.
And then somebody like smashessomething or like ruins the
scratchers and he's like son ofa bitch, we're gone, man.
Speaker 2 (29:02):
Yeah, totally yeah.
It's just that, and it's thoselittle things throughout the
movie that I things thatshouldn't have gotten out of
control every single time justgoes out of control, you know.
Speaker 3 (29:14):
Yeah, but yeah, I mean you might say too many
things, just don't go right.
You know One after the other,you know.
So yeah, yeah, like even.
Speaker 2 (29:25):
Yeah, go ahead, go ahead.
Speaker 3 (29:26):
Well, going back to North Ranch, I mean I love, I
love that situation where you'renothing outside your
organization and then you gointo your organization.
It's like some of the guys inthe Nazi party.
They might have been butchersor unemployed frigging laborers
or whatever, and then they'relike they're soldiers in the SS
(29:50):
with a beautiful you know HugoBoss uniform and stuff and what
they can do then.
But I was a member of a theatercompany one time and I remember
the artistic directors, ahusband and wife, outside that
little theater, and they used tohave theater classes as well.
Outside that little theaterthere were an oddity Like he,
(30:11):
dressed in black, with he lookedlike Count Dracula, with the
he'd long gray hair, handsomeman with a he'd never put his
hands in the sleeves of his coatand this is an LA now a coat, a
black coat, right, he'd neverput his hands, they'd just be
draped over his shoulders and hewas this oddity, right.
And then outside of the theater,right, and his wife was this
(30:36):
kind of, you know, like another,like she didn't fit in in the
outside world, but inside, inthat little box of a theater,
they were like the king andqueen and every little actor in
there treated them like the kingand queen and they'd always
talk about you know, I don'twant to mention names, though,
(30:57):
that's why I'm careful andthey'd always talk about his
great performance, you know, ofHanlid or something Many, many
years that he's referring tothat, and all the young ladies
in the theater.
They loved it all.
He's handsome and he's theirteacher and it was.
But it's just like that wastheir little kingdom, like that
(31:18):
was Nars Ratchett's littlekingdom.
Outside they'd be lining up inthe DMV shopping for groceries,
people pushing him out of theway, treating them with like as
if they're just normal people,but inside, in that little box,
they were fucking gods, you know.
So it, yeah, just like NarsRatchett, you know.
Speaker 2 (31:40):
That's a great, great point, you know.
Speaker 1 (31:45):
They, and how did that not know?
You did like theater too, Tim.
I thought you were only a TVand film guy.
Speaker 3 (31:50):
Oh, I've done it all, and I'd even before I was an
actor.
I've done a million otherthings, yeah.
Speaker 1 (31:56):
You know your whole like description of that is
totally done on.
But it reminds me of like,cause I went to a conservatory
theater program.
And it reminds me of like yourmovement teacher.
Like, because you teach a lotof these.
You know schools teach movement, so you do all kinds of
different.
Speaker 3 (32:11):
Oh my God, it's basically like rolling around on
the floor my first year.
Speaker 1 (32:14):
we used to I mean, I got a few buddies and we just
like play, like basically it waslike playing, which is what it
is, that's what it's supposed tobe.
We like play like Spider-Manand throw fireballs at each
other and we're just fuckingnerds.
It was just dumb as hell.
But it's like if you meet yourmovement teacher who, like wears
all crushed velvet and, likeyou know, odd colors and has all
the different mood rings on inthe room, that's like their
(32:36):
domain.
But you meet them at like youknow fucking Walmart, you know
they're.
It's like what's this crazylady doing here with all these
candles?
Speaker 3 (32:42):
Who's that?
Fucking okay, exact, exact.
Who's that homeless odd person.
You know what do you?
Speaker 1 (32:49):
think I mean that's a lot of candles just for a
normal person Like.
I don't think you should havethat many, too many flames.
Speaker 2 (32:54):
I will turn that music down and I will watch the
World Series.
It's the same, I mean similarexperience with me.
I mean I think we all havethose stories and it's just like
, yeah, I had an artisticdirector who just I was did a
program with under him and oh,when he walked into the room, I
(33:15):
mean his shit did not stink, andit was.
I am the most powerful humanand you are wrong for everything
.
And then to your point, Steve,then seeing him some years later
, you know, in an Irish pub, andI was like, oh, what's up how
you doing, and then justcontinued on with my
conversation.
Speaker 1 (33:38):
All right, hey, quiz time here.
Academy Awards this one eightAcademy Awards.
You guys wanna guess on whatwhich one's it won?
Speaker 3 (33:47):
Eight Definitely best actor, obviously.
Yep, that's one Best film, Ithink.
Speaker 1 (33:53):
He won Best Picture, yeah.
Speaker 3 (33:55):
Yeah, best Director yes, and Screenplay yeah, yep.
Ok, we're not Everyone innearly half way.
Speaker 1 (34:09):
That's for, that's for.
Oh, it actually won one.
It won one nine, nine.
Speaker 3 (34:15):
I have those for the days where you did not win the
best film without winning bestdirector and best actor as well,
whereas now they see it's sopolitical, or we give that to
them and that you know it'sridiculous now.
Speaker 2 (34:29):
But yeah, and to your point.
It's just like are you kiddingme?
Like Louise Fletcher and JackNicholson, they absolutely like
give it to him, you know, andI'll support supporting actor.
And Brad Brad Dorough Is alittle.
He won for best supporting thatyear.
Speaker 1 (34:48):
I'm checking this out because I said yeah, it said
eight and I have nine on my list, so I just want to figure out
what's right.
Interesting, why you do, yeah,well why you do that Something.
Speaker 2 (34:57):
You said because they did win an Oscar for
screenwriting.
And Tim, you were talkingearlier just about the level of
screenwriting.
Yeah, and there was a momentthat I totally so it's one of my
favorite moments in the movie,where he offers him the gum and
Chief talks for the first time.
(35:18):
You remember that, yeah.
And then, yeah, yeah, and yousee it on McMurphy's face trying
to register it.
So he's like what do I do?
I guess I'll, I'll nudge himagain and I'll offer him another
piece, and yeah.
So there was, you know, and Isaw a brief little piece about
this where everybody came toJack and said, oh my gosh, that
(35:40):
was a brilliant choice to make,to just hit him again and nudge
him and give him another and seeif you could get him to talk by
asking him another piece.
And he's like you freaking,kidding me, that was in the
script.
And, sure enough, you know, theamazing screenwriter who then
appropriately won was a BoGoldman and he he, it was
(36:05):
written in the script Nudges himon the elbow twice, offers him
a second and just waits for himto speak.
And it's like, oh my God, itwas in there.
Speaker 1 (36:19):
OK, news news update.
I have an update here.
Ok, according to the deeplyvetted and always correct
Wikipedia, I I was incorrectthis is one, one, two, three,
four, five Oscars.
It had a few more nominations,but you were all correct here,
tim.
It did one best picture, onebest director, one best actor,
(36:42):
best actress for Jack Nicholsonand Louise Fletcher, and it also
won best screenplay.
It was also nominated for bestsupporting actor for Brad Dorf,
also nominated for.
Nominated for bestcinematography let's come back
to that in one second Best filmediting and best original score,
but it did not win for any ofthose.
This movie had threecinematographers, one of which a
(37:04):
former Oscar winner, that gotfired like early on.
Yeah, I don't know if you guys,but he the reason was because
he and Milo's were not gettingalong.
Again, they wanted a veryimprov movie.
They were very much working for.
Like seemed like a world whereit was like three hundred and
sixty degree coverage, whereyou're like or as much as
(37:24):
possible, where the actors couldplay and improv and the camera
was not dictating the what wasdone.
I actually really appreciatethis.
It's not, you know, always thebest style of filmmaking, but in
this film, where it's like ayou know.
You know it's a psychiatricward, a hospital.
Basically it's a contained area.
Yeah, I mean, the cinematicversion of these scenes, of
(37:46):
these group scenes, is by farthe least important part, and
I'm sure a cinematographer woulddisagree with me.
But the most important part isseeing the actors work together
in the moments, play and feelreal and out of control or in
control.
That's what's important.
The lighting needs to be asgood as possible, but it should
definitely take a backseat tothe scene, the setting, the
performance and the staging, andthat is the last thing a
(38:08):
cinematographer wants to hear.
Speaker 3 (38:10):
Yeah, it wasn't a spaghetti Western night.
Speaker 1 (38:13):
No, yeah.
Well, it's not like whereyou're trying to make it look
beautiful and dynamic andcontrolled.
Speaker 3 (38:17):
And it's not about the image, it's about what's
happening in the lens and thatis the inner and the energy I
think, and yeah, definitely thatdogma style that came on later
on, the Danish kind of stylewhere the camera is like an
emotion.
In some ways it's like anemotional thing and there's a
certain feel of that to some ofthose scenes.
Speaker 1 (38:41):
And some scenes need that you know like for instance
you've got the scene at the endwhere he comes in and he's been
lobotomized.
Here's the spoiler, which isthe true tragedy of the movie
you don't really see coming.
You know what I mean.
Like you think, oh, they'renever going to.
It really is sort ofheartbreaking the way it's
revealed.
Speaker 2 (38:59):
I was going to say do you remember?
Because I want you to continuethat point.
But I do want to ask do eitherof you remember the end?
Did it really catch you offguard that much?
Speaker 3 (39:15):
I think, I really think it was so sad really.
I mean you basically, yeah, youwant, you know, I suppose in
the 70s, because of the VietnamWar and because of the Second
World War before that, somegreat movies came out and
because of the movement withcivil rights and everything
going on, you know, there wasgreat creativity coming out, and
(39:39):
there was great creativity waslike no, the good guy doesn't
always win.
In fact, usually the good guyloses when he fights the system,
you know, which is really thehonest way.
But before that you'd have, youknow, in the 60s you'd have
true grit, where John Wayne wonan Academy Award who never,
would never, lose anything inhis life, you know.
(39:59):
But to see the movies in the70s, the good guy usually got
fucked, you know, in very oftenanyway, that's a great, great
point.
Speaker 2 (40:09):
That's why I wanted to ask Sorry, yeah, the first
time.
Speaker 1 (40:12):
I usually write any screenplay, like if anything
that I really care about,usually the ending is usually
pretty dark, like it's a very1970s sort of ending and that's
what I always really love.
I've always.
But audiences right now don'treally.
And there is something to this.
Like you know, if you're goingto create some art, don't you
want to somewhat beinspirational, like parables are
(40:34):
, you know, great, like theyexist in the Bible, but they
also create a sort of paralympicparallel.
Oh my God.
They create sort of a dichotomyof emotion where some people
take them too seriously anddon't take the point and take
the tone over the point.
So you know, overall, like Ifeel it is, I remember when I
(40:54):
saw it this time like the firsttime, I was like holy shit, and
that was the thing that Iremembered from it is that it
got lobotomized and I didn'treally remember the context or
why or what it stood for.
But this definitely for me thistime stands for that overall
suppression of revolutionary.
You know.
That is that you know, when wecan no longer win with reason,
(41:16):
rhyme or, you know, or guile, orguile, we win with power and
that is always the weakest.
It's the rule.
By fear, not with you know, notwith inspiration kind of tactic
.
And that, to me, stood out verystrongly this time, and you
know even the titles.
One flew over the cuckoo's nestthe whole time.
(41:37):
You expect it's going to beJack Nicholson, it's going to be
his time here and what he takesaway from it and then the fact
that it in the end ends up beingthe chief is sort of a really.
I mean, it's a deep, deep cutemotionally and you feel they
let it linger on that shot ofhim running away into the
darkness for so long andChristopher Lloyd is just losing
his mind, like they're cuttingback between the two of them,
(42:00):
like with elation, like it does.
You know, it's that kind ofopportunity of hope.
I think, without getting tooacademic and bullshitty about
all of this, that's kind of whatI think.
You know it does have thatfeeling of like, no, when you
can, you must do.
You know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (42:15):
You can't just sit on your haunches because they will
just crush you right andbecause I want to actually go in
that direction, but I want tomake sure that you finish your
other thought, unless youwrapped it up in that which, if
you, let me keep talking, matt,I'm going to talk for a whole
damn time.
Speaker 1 (42:30):
This is also true.
I'll never shut up, do you want?
Speaker 2 (42:33):
me to keep going.
I'll keep going, no, no.
Speaker 1 (42:34):
I want to.
No, no, no, no, hold on, I'llkeep going.
Speaker 2 (42:37):
No, it's fine.
Well, I just want to make sure,because what you said really
resonated with that moment wherethe so after chief and I, matt,
realized that they're allies,they're friends, and he and Matt
comes over to, and what then ismirrored by the sadness that we
were just talking about.
When, in the first scene, mattcomes over to chief's bed and
(43:01):
then, of course, at the end,it's chief going over to Matt's
bed, but in this moment he talksabout his dad and he goes like
my papa was, you know, reallybig and he did as he pleased.
And that's what he did.
He was really big and he did ashe pleased.
And that's why they're working,you know, that's why they
worked on him, and the way theyworked on him is the way they're
(43:23):
working on you, and it's likethat's what you remember.
That moment he's like you'rebigger than me and Jack or Matt
is like what are you talkingabout?
And he said, no, I remember mydad.
And so, to your point, one flewover the cuckoo's nest.
It's a beautiful setup thatthey all did in the redoing it
with the screenplay rather thanthe book's point of view, and
(43:45):
then also with just the wholedirection of it, saying, oh,
this is that moment where Mattlearns his lesson and learns.
Oh, I better be careful, orthey're going to keep working on
me.
And then the true tragedy iswhat it is.
Speaker 1 (43:59):
It's true late, I mean, when he recognizes it.
It's in that other scene wherehe comes out and he's like you
guys knew the whole time thatthey controlled.
When I got the hell out of here.
It's like, and it's veryheartbreaking.
Speaker 3 (44:10):
It was yeah, and then he gets pissed off with them.
Speaker 1 (44:13):
They didn't even tell him, and it's like watching the
teacher get pissed at thestudents.
You know what I mean.
You know that it's not right,it doesn't feel good, it doesn't
feel.
You can tell they're in a badspot and they shouldn't be doing
what they're doing, but at thesame time you can empathize with
how they got there.
Speaker 3 (44:31):
But like it was a good ending in a way.
I mean that the chief did killhim, you know, and suffocate him
.
Because during our fight forindependence, a bunch of you
know there were into the Irishhistory.
There were teachers, thereweren't soldiers, there were
revolutionaries.
Is there any such thing anymore, you'd wonder?
(44:54):
Because most revolutionarieswere not soldiers at all, they
actually fought against thesoldiers and whatever.
But in 1916, you know, a bunchyou know took up arms against
the British Brown in Ireland,you know, and all the leaders
were executed.
They were all shot.
(45:14):
And if they had not shot thoserevolutionaries it probably
would have.
If they sent them off to a longtime in prison or whatever, you
know, it would have dissipatedany kind of revolution, any
other thinking of the Irishpeople rising up to revolt.
But when they killed all thoserevolutionaries, when they shot
(45:39):
them, it made the Irish, whowere not the majority of the
people there did not support the1916 rising.
But and their letters wereamazing to their sisters and
their brothers and their parentsbefore they were executed, like
they were brave men Before theywere being executed it was like
, hopefully my blood now will me, you know, giving my blood will
(46:06):
gain independence for Ireland.
They went to their deck withhonour.
Most people like the lettersare just amazing to me.
But what the connection to youknow to die for Ireland like was
not nowadays, when, if you saidthat to a young person die for
(46:28):
Ireland it was like, no, are youfucking kidding me?
Or whatever you know and eat,eat I mean Bobby Sands later on.
But just that way of thinking.
But when, when the chief killedhim and he looked like he had
escaped the thing, everybody wascheering.
(46:49):
Or if they had killed him, Ithink everybody would be
cheering.
But if they had seen him as alobotomy victim, there was no
hope basically, and in a waythere was no hope for humanity
type of thing that the machineor the more powerful one always
wins, but in that moment they'dbeat the machine in some ways,
(47:12):
or he beat the machine or exceptthe chief digits.
What I love about that moment,that's a great, great point.
Speaker 1 (47:17):
Yeah, what I love about that moment, at least for
me, is I don't know at leasteven I don't know what that I
don't know what the intentionwas for the moment of killing
him.
Really I don't know what Itruly think.
The metaphor quote unquote iswater matters.
I feel right about it, like Ifeel good about it, like I'm
feeling good that he killed himout of like mercy or something.
(47:40):
You know.
It's like Lenny in of mice andmen.
You know what I mean.
Like it's got that kind of likeparallel, but I can't define
why or what and that is reallywhy that's a true complex moment
in human emotions, reallyimpactful.
That's why it's very powerful.
It's more powerful than himrunning away.
It just by being followed byhim running away.
(48:02):
The running away is what Icarry through the action, but it
starts.
If he just left him and ranaway, I wouldn't remember.
Speaker 3 (48:08):
Yeah or definitely.
Speaker 2 (48:10):
I mean, he hugs him.
He hugs him and then has thatlast line let's go.
And so it's that thing.
To your point earlier about hadeverybody else seen him
lobotomized?
But he's like no, I'm going toleave.
I'm actually going to do whatwe talked about, which is get
out of here, and the only way totake you with me is in spirit.
Speaker 1 (48:34):
You know, the rest of you is gone and it's just oh,
heartbreaking you guys wannaknow a couple of facts that I
got pulled up here about thefilm.
Give me some Kind of here in theend here.
So Jack Nicholson, thecharacter in the book, is
described completely differently.
He showed up with a beardactually in the beginning,
thinking that's how he thoughtthe character would look and
(48:55):
Milo's was like absolutely nothad him shave it off.
And in fact at the end of thefilm Milo's and Jack Nicholson
weren't even talking to eachother.
They were going through the DPfor notes Like they really had a
big.
They had a big difference ofopinion on how the mode and it
all came down to the motivationsof Jack Nicholson's character.
(49:16):
Oh, yeah, yeah and yeah, mcmill, yeah and McMurphy, and he
couldn't.
Yeah, and they also.
I don't know if you noticedthis, but Nurse Ratchet never
calls him McMurphy.
She always fucks his name upevery single time.
She calls him a different name.
Speaker 3 (49:30):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (49:30):
So I think it's McMurray or something like that.
I tried clocked that this watchfirst and I was like, oh,
that's a smart choice, becausemost people won't probably catch
that, and to your point, hecalls her by her first name once
.
Well, the book doesn't have afirst name for her, the actor
Chol.
She has it.
Louise made it up.
Right, yeah, she made it upwhat she made.
Speaker 2 (49:51):
What was it, do you know?
Oh, before I say it, do youremember?
Speaker 1 (49:54):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I don't know, I don't know, I
ruined it.
I ruined it, oh man.
Speaker 3 (49:57):
I ruined it.
It's fine.
Speaker 2 (49:58):
it's fine, I'm sorry, don't watch Sixth Sense next to
Steve.
Oh, that guy's dead.
Oh, hey, no idea.
Speaker 3 (50:08):
It looks like.
What amazes me is her careerafter that wasn't great.
I mean, she should have beeneverything after that.
You know, yeah, but no, it'samazing.
Speaker 1 (50:18):
Yeah, it really is.
Did you know that Dr Spivey wasactual doctor and he was the
guy that ran?
I think they filmed this, andwas it?
It was in Oregon somewhere,portland.
Speaker 2 (50:27):
McMurray it was in Oregon.
Speaker 1 (50:28):
Yeah, in Oregon yeah, and he ran that hospital and
they were having trouble findinga hospital because Milos only
wanted to shoot on location.
He did not want to shoot onstage because he believed in
location shooting.
And they couldn't find ahospital because they
lobotomized patients, theyshocked these patients.
It's not a good look on ahospital, so no hospital to
(50:48):
support them.
This doctor said yes, dr DeanBrooks, he plays the doctor in
the film.
He's great.
He's great.
It's it improved.
Apparently it was only twotakes the scene he did with in
the beginning, with JackNicholson.
He didn't know what the hell hewas doing.
He's just a normal person, he'sa doctor.
And he did two takes of it andthat was it and it worked out.
Speaker 2 (51:08):
Amazing, yeah, two takes and only one take when.
Speaker 1 (51:13):
And it wasn't and sorry, sorry, sorry, before we
go to the end, it wasn't thatthey gave it out of.
Initially I was like, oh well,he's gonna give it out of some
kind of hubris Like he wants tobe in the movie.
He actually wanted to do itbecause he wanted to use it as a
diagonal or like some kind ofexample for his patients of what
bad is Like.
So he wasn't like some kind ofand maybe there were some hubris
in there that wasn't purelyhubris.
Speaker 2 (51:35):
Wow, yeah, oh no, all I was gonna say was that that's
which is amazing, that it's twotakes and it was only one take
and kind of get it.
It's when Chief runs into themain hallway with the entire
like waterworks in his hands,they had like they had like five
cameras rolling and they'relike we gotta get it.
(51:56):
And that was just one take andthen they got it.
I did wanna point out this isnot a fact, so, but this is just
me how I process the movie.
Is that in the beginning of themovie, the opening shot right,
you remember?
It's over, there's this justcar from a distance, and it's
(52:17):
golden hour, it's either, or atleast it feels like it, so it's
either sunrise or sunset, butit's just like very cold and in
the distance is a huge mountainand then it's planes in the
foreground and then there's acar.
You see the headlights movingtowards the camera, and then at
the end, what is it?
(52:37):
It's rolling hills away andyou've got a man running away
from the camera and the hillsare just low enough behind in
the background that you canfinally see the sky, and it's
like the first time they reallykind of focus on that.
The rest of it, the.
Anytime you would look up, itwas either surrounded by fence
(52:57):
or you had the I mean, you hadthe moment in the boat, but
they're still surrounded bywater.
You can't get away fromanything and there it is.
At the end, they take thatbeginning image they have and
transpose it, whereas instead ofa mountain blocking it, you can
see the full horizon.
Just, I don't know.
That's just kind of hit me thatI didn't.
I missed the first time, butemotionally must have gotten.
Speaker 1 (53:19):
Another fact a lot of methodactic going on in this
movie and there one of thethings in here Danny this is not
necessarily method acting, butDanny DeVito was kept away from
his girlfriend at the time.
Rio Perman Ultimately ends upmarrying him from Cheers, rio
Perman.
Speaker 3 (53:37):
Plays a.
Speaker 1 (53:38):
I forget her character name, but she's a big,
prominent character in Cheersand apparently he developed
himself an imaginary friend as acoping mechanism, to the point
where people were reallyconcerned about him because he
was talking to his imaginaryfriend all the time.
Speaker 2 (53:55):
That, yep, I believe it.
I mean, he was like Cheswick.
I see you, I'm going to, I'mgonna raise you one.
Speaker 1 (54:02):
And again he was like Dr Brooks guy, that's the
doctor and the thing.
He went to the doctor and saidlike hey, this is a problem.
And the doctor said, as long asyou can recognize that this is
not a real person, that's not aproblem.
So, but the doctor actually didmore work on this too.
I can't I'm trying to find theactor's name, but the guy who
played the super intellectualguy they opened up the opening
(54:25):
scene and he's like my wife ischeating on me and you're
perfect.
Oh, the character Harman.
Yeah, renfeld, I think, is veryI'm sorry I'm just gonna
butcher this, but his, I thinkhis last name is Renfeld.
Does that remember it from,like the Dracula book?
Anyway, he died.
The reason there were a lot inthe book.
Apparently he's a lot moreprominent character.
Do you remember that Tim himbeing?
(54:45):
Do you remember him from thebook?
Is he a lot more prominent?
Speaker 3 (54:48):
I forget the book now .
I mean, I barely got throughthat book, you know.
Speaker 1 (54:53):
Well, I'm sorry, you're our resident expert, so
whatever you say has to go.
Speaker 3 (54:57):
I do not have fond memories of reading that book in
a mobile home in Pallibon inthe North Kerry.
It wasn't a dad of an enjoyableread, I must say.
Speaker 2 (55:11):
Yes, that's right.
You're right, it's likeRedfield.
That's the actor.
Redfield.
He played Hardy and you had alittle.
Did you want to continue withthe fact on that Well?
Speaker 1 (55:20):
so he usually.
There were a lot more sceneswith him.
He was a lot more prominentcharacter, very strong character
, came out early but apparentlythe man was dying of leukemia so
he could not actually be in thefilm after they were already
started.
So and how that was discoveredis Dr Brooks again noticed him
doing something or whatever andsaid, hey, I think you have a
problem.
And look at this, it turns outhe had very, a very bad course
(55:43):
of leukemia and was yeah, and heended up dying shortly after
the film.
So very, very tragic, verytragic sort of thing.
Speaker 2 (55:50):
Well, in the middle of that tragedy, the, I want to
point out one of my favoritemoments with him is on the boat.
They're about to take thefishing boat out and Jack's
caught, or Mack is caught and helooks at the harbour master and
he goes oh well, we're from theinstitution, this is Dr
Cheswick, this is Dr, and hegoes and he names everybody Dr,
(56:13):
dr, dr.
He gets to Harding and he goes.
Speaker 1 (56:16):
Mr yes, Dr, dr, dr.
He does is fabulous, it's sogood, it is such a fabulous
detail.
I was like you're such a dick.
Back to the method.
Acting I think is my last fact.
They called for McMurphy toleap on a guard and kiss him and
during the filming Milo'sdecided the guard's reaction
wasn't strong, wasn't goodenough, and so he told him to
(56:38):
jump on the other guard.
And then he did and in thecamera it was a total like out
of the spur of the moment sortof thing, and you can see,
before they cut away, thatthey're like.
The other actor starts punchingJack Nicholson.
Ha ha, ha, ha ha ha.
So he starts fighting back onhim.
Speaker 2 (56:55):
That's amazing.
And one last thing for me on animpression and because I do, I
want to get final impressionsfrom you guys as well the one
thing that hit me that I think Ididn't notice and then forgot
it was the same year.
So do you remember the moment?
It's right after he kisses himand this is at the top of the
(57:16):
movie Mac looks up and he's inthe foyer and he looks up or
four years, sorry, and uh,that's okay, you can be, you can
be.
I'm the weak condo sender, nojudgment here and as I drink my
coffee in tonic and he looks upfrom the lobby and then it's
like this huge staircase thatgoes around and around and
(57:37):
there's people that look over,kind of judging from the top,
and I don't know if you remember, it happens very briefly in
their sunglasses or whatever andthey just look over at him from
this spiral staircase.
I immediately went oh my God,that's the same scene from when
Frank and Ferdinand is about tointroduce Eddie in no way.
(57:57):
Yeah, in Rocky Horror, and youlook up and it's just like
everybody in their beautifuloutfits and their sunglasses
looking down.
Speaker 1 (58:02):
You think it's the?
Speaker 2 (58:03):
same set.
It's not the same set at all,but it's that same moment of
looking up and the reaction tothe camera's reaction, how it
frames it, and I was like it's.
I haven't gone back to watch it, but emotionally I had the
exact same reaction.
Speaker 1 (58:16):
So you're positing that Rocky Horror Picture Show
stole that from One Fleur of theCoons?
Speaker 2 (58:21):
No, no because they came out the same year.
The same year, yeah, so I justthink there's something in the
vocabulary at the time that wasshared and then was being
expressed simultaneously in thatmoment.
Holy crap, man.
So that's just something thatstuck out for me as we go
through.
Are there some final thoughtsor something that stuck out with
you, timothy?
Speaker 3 (58:44):
Just how entertaining Jack Nicholson is and what a
presence on the screen.
Everything he does is great.
There's always a great sense ofhumor there.
It doesn't matter what he'ssaying or what he's doing.
There's an enjoyment towatching him and he's sensitive
with his sense of humor, whichis great.
(59:06):
He's always playing very well.
Very often he's playing theunderdog or whatever the
misunderstood type of rebel guy.
He's never part of the systemusually or part of normal people
.
As a person himself and as anactor, he's not a normal person.
His characters are not normalpeople.
(59:28):
They say things that normalpeople want to say but aren't
brave enough to say, or whatever.
Speaker 1 (59:36):
Here's the real question Does this movie hold up
?
I just watched it again for thefirst time.
Matt, I'll start with you.
Does this movie hold up for you?
More than ever, more than ever,more powerful than ever, tim,
does this movie hold up for you?
Speaker 3 (59:50):
I think it does.
It looks a lot simpler thanwhat I remembered when I watched
it originally.
I think movies then weresimpler and I think that's a
testimony to the writing in thatthere was a certain formula
where you have a start,beginning and an end.
You have a high point or a lowpoint, and that's a problem, and
(01:00:16):
that's resolved.
Then it comes to the big climaxand that's resolved and then it
goes up.
There was a formula to writingmovies in those days and it
really worked in this case.
Nowadays you'd be very lucky tosee a movie that works from
beginning to end.
Usually movies nowadays haveone good act or two good acts or
(01:00:39):
three good acts, but rarely dothey have four good acts or
whatever.
It was simple, but it was soeffective and it still stands up
for me.
Speaker 1 (01:00:52):
Absolutely.
I'll jump in and I'll say againI think this movie definitely
holds up.
I will say it definitelylaunches in my mind a vertical
of films that come across thenext bit of time.
I think without this, filmslike Awakenings don't happen.
(01:01:13):
Films like Rain man, beautifulMind, patch Adams and other
Robin and the Wings movies Ithink they all pull from the
well of this film of One FlewOver the Cuckoo's Nest.
If you don't have the successof this, and films that are able
to tell this complex, dramatic,hospital-oriented story that
(01:01:37):
these other films don't evenexist.
I think, even if this film isnot for you, there's something
to appreciate about it becauseit did open doors beyond it.
Speaker 2 (01:01:47):
That's a great point.
Lastly, to continue on what yousaid with, why I said, it more
than ever is because of thesimplicity, tim, that you
mentioned, and, Steve, the filmsthat I've seen, the films I
probably saw first and thendidn't realize they came from
this.
Speaker 1 (01:02:06):
I think they are full-on, like derivative.
Not derivative, no, butinspired and just informed.
Speaker 2 (01:02:12):
And also it's the whole point and, tim, you
touched on this earlier it'slike this is real.
This is like when Milo saw itand he's like this is real.
This is what I want to do.
I'm not going to put a spin onthis and then that reality just
comes through with every singleperformance and the way it was
shot and the script.
So that's why.
Speaker 1 (01:02:31):
So, Tim, where should people follow you to know more
about you?
Speaker 3 (01:02:40):
I suppose I have an Instagram account.
I don't have a YouTube channelor anything like that.
Well, since I'm frigginunemployed now as an actor,
maybe I will, you know, you'regoing to get some tutorials
going.
Speaker 1 (01:02:55):
You're going to get some tutorials going.
Speaker 3 (01:02:58):
No, I could talk about fucking life and my
opinion and life and my opinionon that.
Speaker 1 (01:03:04):
I'm saying we need to start like Tim Murphy Trims
Chrysanthemums.
Like I want that series.
Speaker 3 (01:03:14):
I love it.
Yeah, I would like you know.
But I would love to do like adocumentary because I love
history.
A documentary I write amotorcycle through the Navajo
Reservation and ride horses withthe Navajo and Monument Valley
and stuff and then go on to theLakota Res.
(01:03:35):
You know, have a motorcycletrip up along the west going
from reservation to reservationand hearing about what their
views on life and land andeverything is.
Speaker 1 (01:03:45):
Oh, that would be beautiful.
That would be beautiful man.
Speaker 3 (01:03:49):
But I'm looking forward to our movie coming out.
It was such a pleasure workingwith you guys.
It's a fried fest, is that whatit's on?
Speaker 1 (01:04:00):
Yep, it's fried fest, it's fall, that'll be coming
out.
Speaker 3 (01:04:03):
It's London, and then I have a bunch of movies coming
out I mean what I love in thelast number of years, and I
think what's going to happen now, with all this striking and
everything, is Independentmovies are on the way back,
which is great.
It's just a matter of gettingthe finance without ruining the
movie by hiring some star thatisn't suitable in a type of
(01:04:23):
thing.
You did a masterful job inhiring a bunch of you know, just
a bunch of actors and not somebig, friggin' star or something
in it.
I have a movie coming out withJohn Travolta I think I'm going
to a screening in a couple ofweeks of that one and there's a
couple of other about three moreindependence I did which will
(01:04:44):
be coming out, I suppose, in thenext year or something.
Speaker 1 (01:04:47):
Well, Tim, you're always working on stuff and
you're a great guy and we loveworking with you.
Speaker 2 (01:04:53):
Getting to hang out with you is always awesome.
Hanging out with you at familytime yeah, exactly this is great
.
Speaker 3 (01:04:59):
I know it's great and hopefully we do Western in
Missouri, you know.
Speaker 1 (01:05:03):
I know we just got to figure out what that's going to
be A spaghetti Western.
It's a spaghetti Western wherea cowboy eats only spaghetti.
It is his only diet.
Speaker 3 (01:05:12):
I love it.
Speaker 1 (01:05:13):
He's an Italian.
Speaker 3 (01:05:15):
I was talking to a friggin' friend of mine from the
Canary Islands and apparentlyif you can get $500,000, they'll
give you the other $500,000.
So they'll finance it 50% orsomething.
Speaker 2 (01:05:29):
Yeah, there you go.
Speaker 1 (01:05:32):
Well, Tim, it is absolutely fabulous hanging out
with you.
Man, I really appreciate youcoming in and hanging out with
us.
Thanks for having us watch OneFloor of the Cuckoo's Nest.
It was great to revisit it, man.
Speaker 3 (01:05:44):
I'm glad you did, guys.
It's great and great chat withyou guys.
It was so easy to conversation,which is always good.
Speaker 1 (01:05:50):
Hell yeah, man.
Yeah, you got it.
Until next time, bro.
Thanks Tim.
Speaker 3 (01:06:09):
Take care boys, Good luck.
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