The NeverEnding Story | with guest James Allerdyce (HERD, Buke & Gase, Top Photographer) - Happy Hour Flix | HHF

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
A dead mom, a drowned horse and the existential dread
of non-existence.
You know a kid's movie from the80s the never-ending story.
It's 1984 and we've got somegreat movies here, including

(00:33):
Ghostbusters, temple of Doom,gremlins, karate Kid, police,
academy, but loose, beverlyHills Cop, star Trek 3, the Dead
and the Dead, the Terminator,amadeus, nightmare on Elm Street
, spinal Tap, starman, the LastStarfighter and Splash.
The never-ending story is outwith an incredible class of

(00:54):
movies this year.
I am with, as always, mywonderful co-host, steven Pierce
.
What's up, man?

Speaker 3 (01:00):
Are we just going to do 1984 movies for the rest of
the year?

Speaker 1 (01:04):
We probably should.

Speaker 3 (01:06):
It sort of feels like every movie is from 1984 that I
love.
This is another one.
Isn't this the third or fourthone we've done?

Speaker 1 (01:15):
from 84?
.
Gremlins, as of now recordingGremlins, and the Last
Starfighter, and we havedefinitely talked about all of
these.

Speaker 3 (01:22):
Yeah, all of these.
We've mentioned this list.
I think we could just rinse andrepeat this list every time.

Speaker 1 (01:26):
Yeah, it's amazing, and those were just some of the
top grocers, the beloved ones,like the Natural, you know, of
that year.
Jesus, what is up about?

Speaker 3 (01:35):
1984?
.
Yeah, well that's also like theGeorge Orwell novel title oh
yeah, it just occurs to me, thisis something about.

Speaker 2 (01:41):
And that was out this year too.

Speaker 3 (01:42):
There's something about this year that is just one
of those cinema years.

Speaker 1 (01:49):
Yeah, and honestly I don't know what the Can I use a
corporate term the synergy thatliterally brought all this
together, Because 1985 is good,1983 is good, but 84 is just
nasty good.

Speaker 3 (02:05):
Yeah, it's just unbelievably good.
And today picking up Speakingof nasty good Speaking of nasty
good.
We have our good, good friend,partner in crime here.
Co-writer for me with Heard,co-producer with you and fucking
everything underneath the sun,james Allardice.

Speaker 1 (02:22):
Yes, what's up, james ?
And also, not to mention afantasy literature aficionado,
yes.

Speaker 2 (02:27):
Also, 1984 was the year I was born, so Bam, there
we go.

Speaker 3 (02:31):
So it was for Again.
Great things come from 1984.

Speaker 2 (02:37):
Great to be here, guys, as a guest.
Hey, I know.

Speaker 3 (02:39):
Usually we bury you back by the board and say you
just shout shit at me, don't sayanything, so just so everybody
who's watching.

Speaker 1 (02:46):
We have just let you peek behind the curtain and that
is the wizard back there.
Yeah, there it is.
This is the wizard.

Speaker 3 (02:52):
Oh, my God Okay.

Speaker 1 (02:54):
So, speaking of before we get going, we do have
to mention that we have anamazing, never-ending story
style cocktail mixed up for ustoday?

Speaker 3 (03:04):
We do indeed.
It looks very fruity, I'm notgoing to lie.
Yeah, this one.
When I saw the ingredients list, I was a little hesitant about.

Speaker 1 (03:11):
Yeah, and I want our listeners to come at us because
we definitely fact-check thisand it's a huge.
This is a popular style mix.

Speaker 3 (03:20):
I've never heard of this.
It may, I'm eager to try itquestion mark?

Speaker 1 (03:26):
We have not even.
We have literally just mixed it.

Speaker 3 (03:29):
They just made it ready to try.
What are they called Matt?

Speaker 1 (03:32):
This is the Nothing Sunrise and of course, this is
from our good friends over atMisguided Spirits, and this
particular cocktail comes fromJake's Dilemma, which is on 430
Amsterdam Avenue, which is oneof the best.

Speaker 3 (03:49):
Upper West Side, manhattan yeah, one of your
faves.

Speaker 1 (03:51):
Yeah, let's give it away.
As you know, it is one of myfavorite spots.
If there is a day that endswith why, I might be there, and
this one is mixed courtesy of mybuddy and bartender, Paige
Corwin, who, by the way I haveto say, is a sick RB singer, and
she just dropped a new singlecalled Unlearn how to Love you.
Check it out a little bit.

(04:12):
I mean, guys.

Speaker 2 (04:21):
So should I read these ingredients off while we
listen to this?
Yeah, like on top of it.
Oh, this is track.

Speaker 1 (04:24):
Yeah, so of course, be sure to check her out on
Spotify.
We'll have the link to this inthe show notes.
All of her music is incredible,but this is Unlearn how to Love
you.
And, of course, on top of this,very wonderfully fantastic
themed.

Speaker 3 (04:39):
It's very yeah, it's very in the mood of the movie.

Speaker 2 (04:41):
So if you want to make this, there's an 80-cent
thing going on.

Speaker 3 (04:44):
If you want to make this controversial cocktail
again, let's get to trying ithere.
What is this?

Speaker 2 (04:48):
It's the Nothing Sunrise, courtesy of Paige
Corwin and made, of course, withmisguided spirits, right.

Speaker 3 (04:56):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (04:56):
So it's one part misguided spirits whiskey, one
part blood orange OJ, two partsregular OJ, half part grenadine
with an orange wheel.
So you build a highball glassof ice and you pour all that,
you do your orange juice, yourwhiskey, your OJ, and then you

(05:20):
float the grenadine on top and Iguess that's supposed to be
like.

Speaker 1 (05:24):
Yeah, so that Getting in the movie right.
Yeah, the opening.
As soon as you hear the openingsong.
Not too dissimilar from what wejust heard.
That was a great song, by theway.
Yeah, it's the clouds and allthe colors that are rolling in
the opening credits, and I justTwo types of OJ and whiskey.

Speaker 3 (05:40):
This is a thing that I guess the people do like
whiskey and OJ, Because weGoogled it and it is like a
thing I think I want to be onthe back of a ski boat right now
.

Speaker 2 (05:48):
I am surprised we don't have a raw egg in this.
Yeah, this definitely needs araw egg in it.

Speaker 3 (05:53):
I was like what the fuck is that about?
That is, You're just gonnadrink this raw egg.
Okay.

Speaker 2 (05:59):
I always remember this.
I remember watching that as akid.
So much of this movie is so, sodeep inside me.
I mean, I saw this as a reallyyoung kid and it's so in me.
But that is one of them.
That moment Dramatic andtraumatic things that happen in
the movie.
The opening where the dad poursorange juice into a blender,
cracks an egg and he does allthis like it's a very common

(06:21):
place?

Speaker 3 (06:21):
Yeah, as he's talking to his son about it.
Who is this actor?
I love this actor by the way,what's his name?
That's Major Dad.
What Major Dad?
Yeah, what's he Do?
We know the actor's name.
He's from other stuff, thoughhe's like a big part in West
Wing.

Speaker 2 (06:34):
Yeah, Gerald McRaney.
Yeah, he's a great actor.

Speaker 3 (06:37):
I think it's the guy I'm thinking about.

Speaker 1 (06:39):
He looks like him yeah yeah yeah, by the way, I'm
going to try this All right, sohere we go.
Okay.

Speaker 2 (06:48):
Actually, I mean I could use a raw egg, but you
know, I just like that.

Speaker 3 (06:52):
Wow, I mean this dad is not right in the head at all,
like I mean I love it, but Imean what the it's like?
I had another dream about dad,mom or mom, dad, I understand,
but we have to get on right, son.
I rewound it and I was likeJesus Christ, yeah, what was
that?
I mean this is like I know it's80s parenting, but holy shit

(07:13):
man.
And then this guy's eating araw egg and orange juice.

Speaker 1 (07:16):
I mean it's, yeah, as if he's got any ground to stand
on with what he's telling hisson to do with that kind of
Because I'm pretty sure it'sorange concentrate and a raw egg
I saw him pouring orangeconcentrate into a blender and I
was like, is he making asmoothie?

Speaker 3 (07:30):
but it's already liquid.
Like what is the blender therefor?

Speaker 2 (07:33):
So was this a thing Like?
Is this a thing in the 80s tolike drink a raw egg and a
orange juice drink?

Speaker 3 (07:38):
It's in every movie right, Like I don't know about
with orange juice, but it's likeeating raw eggs is like a thing
.

Speaker 1 (07:43):
Like from the 80s, this is an 80s guy.
No, that is true.
I guess that's true.

Speaker 2 (07:46):
This isn't rocky.

Speaker 3 (07:49):
No, he's just like a dad Literally his mustache is
the only thing working out onhis face.
I do it well.

Speaker 1 (07:56):
And did you notice?
It's like I mean, this entirescene is perfectly just the set
decoration on it.
I mean you've got the WonderBread and the government cheese
yes, like like a Ritz crackersand a Ziploc of that 80s brand
it is and everything's perfectlyplaced, just to kind of see
what it is.

Speaker 2 (08:14):
Yeah, it is.
It's super sad, though I meanwe'll get to this in the end,
but I mean, you know, with thismovie sandwiched by these scenes
, you know, because the dadtells him this ridiculous thing
and he says, you know, keep,keep your feet on the ground.

Speaker 3 (08:26):
Yeah, keep your head out of the clouds.
I will say the kid, the kidplaying Bastion, fantastic job.

Speaker 2 (08:33):
I mean just so good in this movie.

Speaker 3 (08:35):
He's great.
He's like I'm going to get upfor one line because his dad's
like get your head out of theclouds and stop daydreaming.
And he goes OK, it's like nochance that kid understood what
that line meant.

Speaker 2 (08:46):
I took that as intentional, though, because he
said do you understand?
And instead of saying yes, hesays OK.

Speaker 3 (08:52):
Yeah, no, no, no, no, no.
You know, yeah, I think thatcompletely makes sense.
That's in the writing there.

Speaker 1 (08:56):
Well, and apparently Wolfgang Peterson, the director,
like he said, he, that kidOliver, was a joy to work with.
He's really doing a lot of heavylifting, a lot of moments and
stuff without dialogue andthat's really impressive for,
especially for a kid oh thatopening moment where the, where
the camera's pulling back andhe's in bed when he sits up, you
know, and just actually the waythat they follow his movements

(09:18):
is so beautiful, you know.
But that, just that openingscene, and you're like, oh, I
know where I am, I know whatkind of movie this is like, with
the wood paneling on theheadboard and just a little bit
of the sunlight coming in, andyou're like, ok, this is a.
We're going to start small,it's going to be personal.
I just I love the way.

Speaker 2 (09:34):
I'll jump on that and say this is one of those movies
.
If you can pause it, like fiveminutes in, six minutes in or
something like that, it's likeyou have every, all the
information you need to know.
You know, you know who yourcharacter is, you know what he's
going through, you know thebackstory with his mom, what his
dad told him, and then he goesand gets bullied right away,
immediately.

Speaker 3 (09:52):
And you see all of it right in the first five minutes
the bullies look like sort of achopped up and remixed version
of Goonies.
Yeah, you know what I mean.
Like the kids from Goonies isthere's like the little they all
are just like look so familiarbut are like the weirdest
looking bullies have ever seenbullies and gang members in 80s
movies are just so soft.

(10:14):
I wrote down because this ishilarious that this came out the
same year as Grimlins, becauseI was like this is like this
film has more like the realworld opening to Grimlins.
Grimlins the dad is wanderingaround for some ungodknown
reason in the middle ofChristmas and he's like I need a
Christmas gift.
You know this one a kid isreading, bullied, rushes in and
hides in a store and thenmagically discovers this weird

(10:36):
piece of like magic artifactthat he's going to take away
with him.

Speaker 1 (10:39):
Yes, yeah, which is?
I mean, it's such a simple Idon't know.
Yeah, it's a simpler setup, butI it does draw you in, as
opposed to like hit you, yeah,and be like, oh, now I'm in an
odd part of Chinatown.
It's like, nope, it's justsimple story and simple things.
It reminds me of like the itpart one, right, you know, and
just like the way that the kidis treated kind of shows his

(11:03):
lack of agency.
And then, like the plot doesn'tjust like tell you where he
needs to go.
It's the story unfolds and letsyou know.
Of course he would run into astore, not know where he is, and
you're like, oh, is that onpurpose?
You know who is this corianderguy.
And that exchange between thetwo of them is so cool.
It's kind of like if WilfordBrimley had not done diabetes

(11:24):
commercials.
That's who that guy reminds meVery.

Speaker 3 (11:27):
Wilford Brimley yeah that is a deep cut, bro.
It's what we're here for ohyeah, absolutely, it's an 80s
movie you got to get into this.

Speaker 1 (11:36):
I do just want to say in that opening scene I love
where this I don't know why, ifthis was a take, they kept, but
it did not sound like it wasmeant to be written this way.
The father says don't be latefor school again.
And he goes well, I wasn'tyesterday, right?
Yeah, it was almost like he wastrying to tell him wait, that's
not the line.

Speaker 2 (11:57):
Okay, back to the scene.
Okay, so again, 80s movie.
I mean, the time period of the80s is so well set up in this
movie because it could nevertake place.
No, all these things couldnever happen.
Yeah, also like this.
So the end of that scene wherethe dad is having breakfast,
then he stands up, he's likegood talk, son, and he says
don't be late for school andjust walks away.

Speaker 1 (12:17):
Yeah, exactly yes, yeah.

Speaker 2 (12:20):
This kid is getting to school on his own, on the way
he gets bullied.
He walks into a store, adepartment, a bookstore, but you
know he's just like you know,exploring around a bookstore,
you know.

Speaker 1 (12:31):
Yeah, steering a book .

Speaker 2 (12:32):
Yeah, then he shows up to school late and just kind
of walks around the halls.
Nobody is out Finds an attic ina school Right, obviously a
place he's been because he likeclimbs up and he's just hanging
out there all day into the night.
You know it doesn't come home.
Yeah, exactly, I never find outanything about that and you

(12:53):
know, but that's how that wasthe 80s.
Yeah, you know, I mean thatcould happen.
That could never happen.
Today, police would be checkingthe security cams on the school
.

Speaker 3 (13:01):
Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 2 (13:01):
To find out the attic that he wouldn't be in because
it wouldn't exist.

Speaker 3 (13:05):
Yeah, this would have been the never starting story,
I know and maybe this, I meanmaybe he doesn't never gets in
trouble because of his dad's inthe hospital with Salmanilla
from the raw egg stomach isabout to have.

Speaker 1 (13:16):
maybe.
That is no joke.
I like that.
I did love the fact that, like,yeah, he goes into the, into
the school, and there's no, likeno hall monitor, there's nobody
to check him.
I mean, it really does speak ofits time.
This is that all that stuff wasshot in Canada, I believe.
By the way, that is the impact,right.

Speaker 3 (13:36):
So most of this was shot in Germany right, right
yeah.

Speaker 1 (13:42):
And then the exteriors are shot in Canada.

Speaker 3 (13:43):
Vancouver, vancouver.
And then, and I think, didn't Iread somewhere that Steven
Spielberg actually did some ofthe reediting?

Speaker 1 (13:48):
Yeah, he did.
Yeah, he did.

Speaker 3 (13:50):
Took off like seven minutes of the movie, but it's
originally German, so like thisis one thing that I was
wondering.
So they did all the lip syncand dialogue in German, correct,
and then they synced it andlooped it in English English,
but their mouths are speakingEnglish, right.

Speaker 1 (14:09):
Most of the actors were, but if you look, I think
it's Nighthob is speaking German, and of course Rockbiter is too
, and you just chalk that up toRockbiter because he's in a
costume.

Speaker 2 (14:19):
Right, of course, but like he's speaking German.
He's a puppet, yeah, but he'sspeaking German and that's like
the kind of caveman looking guy.

Speaker 3 (14:27):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, but that's because he's a
weird character.
You don't really notice it thatmuch, but I'm so.
But like Atreus speakingEnglish, the Empress is speaking
English.
Right, Very interesting, yeah.
So what was in German Like?

Speaker 1 (14:42):
you know what I mean.
Like that's my question.

Speaker 3 (14:44):
They said they recorded it in German, but then
it's looped in English.
So what is every, every singleline in this movie is looped.
Is ADR?
Yeah, and there's a single syncline on here.

Speaker 1 (14:55):
No, and there is a guy I think his name is Alan
Oppenheimer and, of course, justremembered Oppenheimer because
we've all seen it recently is hedoes the voice for like all the
characters, and he is anAmerican actor.

Speaker 2 (15:08):
He's like New York City, you mean all the like he
does, he does the Falcor, theRockbiter and the narrator and
one other thing.

Speaker 1 (15:18):
Yeah, one of the one of the creatures.
Yeah, one of the.
Oh come on, come on, that's allthe same guy.
You know, and it's like he'sthis he's one of the most like
you can't say well known,because nobody knows him, but
he's, like one of the mostprolific.

Speaker 3 (15:34):
He's the Mel Blanc of this movie.

Speaker 1 (15:35):
Yes, and he's the Mel Blanc of that, like outside of
Mel Blanc.

Speaker 3 (15:41):
Whenever we got into the, the Neverending Sturro, the
Fantasia world, right, fantasia, fantasia, it's like I was like
this is a ton of Lewis CarrollLike this.
Just to me it just like wreakedof Lewis Carroll, like these
extreme kind of caricatures, butin like a darker sort of way.

Speaker 1 (15:57):
And I was thinking about him as well.
It had a lot of like originalWizard of Oz kind of feel.

Speaker 2 (16:03):
So this was a book, this was a novel, right, which I
never knew.

Speaker 3 (16:06):
I didn't know.
I never read it.
It was a German novel.
I just know, because I lookedit up.

Speaker 1 (16:11):
And he was famous in Germany, and Michael Ender, or
you know, ende.

Speaker 2 (16:15):
Yeah, and so he hated the movie.
Yeah, which?

Speaker 1 (16:17):
is wild and you know the we were talking about this
off air but he hated the bigbreasts.

Speaker 3 (16:25):
Yeah, that's one of the things that I read that he
hated specifically was, I meanGod, when that scene came up
with the Sphinxes and he walksup to them.
So I guess in the book it waslike you have to wager your life
.
It's like it's the classicSphinx, you know, and it's like
this is from mythology.
But you wager your life and ifyou get the question wrong you
die.
If you get it right, you pass,and it's some kind of riddle and

(16:47):
this one it is just walk up and, I guess, be confident to some
degree.
Well, not you have to know yourworth.
That's what it is.
Yeah, know your worth and beconfident, which is left out,
like the, the, the, the gnomescientist man did not give him,
given that he said you're just aman that knows his worth, that
feels like very diamond in therough, you know what I mean,

(17:08):
like only one may pass, kind ofthing.
But then they get up there andhe's like, oh, don't become not
confident.
I was like, well, shit, youshould have told him that before
he got down off the big rockhere, man.

Speaker 2 (17:17):
To be fair, he wasn't , he didn't plan on the kid he
wasn't done.

Speaker 3 (17:21):
That's the kid's point.
Okay, I'm going.

Speaker 2 (17:22):
Whoa, whoa, whoa whoa , what are you talking?

Speaker 3 (17:24):
about yeah, and he can obviously hear him Like it's
not like he gets so far awaythat he can't, that he can't
hear him.

Speaker 2 (17:31):
He can't hear him.
No, he's looking through atelescope to see him.
No, I'm saying like a trade.

Speaker 3 (17:35):
So he starts to leave and the scientist is like no,
don't leave.
I haven't told you about theother end.
It's like I'm just climbingdown the mountain here.

Speaker 1 (17:43):
Right, I'm going to go towards death and to that
point of like Michael and notreally like hating the movie.
He sued, like he sued and lostbecause he hated it so much.
Wow, yeah.

Speaker 3 (17:54):
Interesting, I mean.
Oh, but back to the back, tothe nipples on the Sphinx.
Sure, yeah, because they were.

Speaker 2 (18:00):
I mean, Jesus, you've gone to nipples, you started
with just brass, just brass.

Speaker 3 (18:03):
Well, you've regressed.
I don't know if you've been.
I don't know if you've beenthere in real life, but that's
generally how they end, so, likethe speakers, to come to a
point, if you will they, they,they, they, they, they bring it
all to a point.
The Sphinx just looks like.
It looks like something like acharacter from a Bert Reynolds
movie.
You know what I mean?

(18:23):
That they just like, yeah, andI'm like this is a kid's movie.
Those are like you didn't haveto have the nipples.

Speaker 1 (18:30):
I figure they probably paid for them so much
that, like they were like well,what's the Southern Oracle going
to be?
Oh, just make it the same thing, but blue.
Yeah, so we get to see thosebreasts twice.

Speaker 2 (18:39):
Well, it is a kid's movie because if you look at the
perspective that a tray you islooking up at the, you know this
is like a few years ago.

Speaker 3 (18:47):
I think these are the nipples that inspired Tim
Burton.
You know what I mean, for, likeBatman, where he's like, see,
you can do it.

Speaker 1 (18:53):
Yes, yes, you can wear armor and have nipples.
Exactly right.
I hadn't thought about that.
The witch, uh no hold on.

Speaker 2 (19:00):
Tim Burton did not had no part in bringing nipples
into that.

Speaker 1 (19:04):
Oh well, that day is true, that was George Clooney's
and that was Tim Burton was notin that one, all right.

Speaker 3 (19:08):
We were Jerry Brockheimer.
Oh, that's Jerry Brockheimer.
Yeah, all right, I apologize,tim, you and Sputman.

Speaker 2 (19:14):
Well, that meant Robin.

Speaker 1 (19:16):
But to that point Frank and Weenie remember the
original.
Frank and Weenie that he didthat little boy that we just
mentioned.
Barrett Oliver did the voicefor Frank and Weenie.
Oh interesting, yeah, it allcomes around man.
Yeah, I mean, he saw hisamazing performance and wanted
him as well.
I just, I don't know, I lovethat thing.
I was like oh exactly, do that.

Speaker 3 (19:36):
Can we go back a little bit to like when we first
see the rock biter for thefirst time?
Because, it's great, like it.
Well, I mean, he's pushing awheel.
We don't see him do that laterbecause you meet him later in
the film, but he doesn't havehis wheel anymore, right.

Speaker 1 (19:52):
I think it's supposed to be a motorcycle, like I
thought it was a bike.

Speaker 2 (19:56):
It's a bike.
Okay, it's like a bicycle, it'slike a unicycle.

Speaker 3 (20:00):
Not a unicycle, but a I thought he was pushing like a
lawnmower like a steamrollerLooks like it.

Speaker 1 (20:06):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (20:06):
Exactly Like I just a perspective, or everybody, and
then he comes in.
But he has one of the bestlines like these rocks are the
reason we've come here.
Delicious bouquet.
You know it's like, oh, this ishilarious.

Speaker 1 (20:17):
It was a great vintage.
Exactly it's like okay, Allright, let's describe this.
What translation was this?
You know what was it originallyin German?

Speaker 3 (20:26):
The rock biter for you, being the slow kind of
character, has the best cuttingone liners of anyone in the film
.

Speaker 1 (20:31):
Oh, it really does, and I don't want to get ahead of
ourselves like we just did withthe Sphinx, but we'll get there
.

Speaker 3 (20:36):
Oh no, we could jump wherever you guys want to go.

Speaker 2 (20:38):
I think we should go through the entire movie, you
know one adventure at a time,yeah.

Speaker 1 (20:42):
I mean that's well, that's what this is.
I mean this literally is twoyears before the, the legend of
Zelda, you know, and I thinkthat there's so much in common
here Just because it is.
I mean, you have Zelda theEmpress, you've got Link who
goes on a quest to save her.
There's like a instead of like.
You know, you have theseprotective things like the RN

(21:04):
and things that will, you know,we'll get, I don't know.
There's just so much there.
So, yeah, when you said theword quest, we'll go on, there
are these little, each one, it'slike every kind of scene is so
like really well encapsulated inits own thing, like that scene
where they go meet thesecharacters that are just
introduced, just so you knowthat there's other characters in
this world.

Speaker 3 (21:23):
Right.

Speaker 2 (21:24):
You know, and so we we brought up.

Speaker 3 (21:26):
Carol already you know Lewis Carol, but you know.

Speaker 2 (21:29):
This part, I think, is also very JRR Tolkien, where
you have the, the different, thedifferent species of the world
coming together because they'reall being pushed right, this
threatening darkness that'sthat's looming, and these people
would never have been togetherotherwise.
You know, they're like the.
You know the caveman guy.
What was he called?

(21:49):
The rockbiter?

Speaker 3 (21:49):
Oh, no, no, no no.

Speaker 2 (21:51):
Oh, the Nighthob, Nighthob, the Nighthob you know,
had obviously never seen arockbiter, before, because the
other guy, the teeny weenie,who's?

Speaker 3 (21:58):
that's what that's what his character is called.

Speaker 2 (22:01):
He rides a snail which makes me realize like oh
was he small.
I didn't realize that he waslike the size of a snail.

Speaker 3 (22:07):
Yeah, I didn't either .
Some of the perspective in thismovie is there's there's some
walking shit.

Speaker 2 (22:10):
But but these characters all came together and
you know he's like oh, he's arockbiter, oh, he's a rockbiter,
right right.

Speaker 1 (22:17):
When he starts, you know biting rocks.

Speaker 2 (22:19):
They had never seen each other before.
They're all being pushedtogether, which is, I think,
like very JRR told.

Speaker 3 (22:24):
Yeah, definitely.

Speaker 2 (22:25):
Species that would never have anything to do with
one another, but they're like.
You know damn what's going on.

Speaker 3 (22:29):
So the teeny weenie that's a guy in the top hat he
straight up is the mad hatter,right?

Speaker 1 (22:33):
I mean that is, I mean just is, and he's very
Willy Wonka.

Speaker 2 (22:38):
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3 (22:40):
And he's ADR'd like whoa.
Most of the ADR is like so good, but that guy's ADR is insane,
Like it's nowhere near what hismouth is doing, which is funny,
I think as a kid I just thoughtI was like oh, this is what
movies look like.

Speaker 2 (22:52):
I was just looking at the snail and again the
rockbiter has the best cuttinglines, like he really is a
racing snail, which is what asilly line here's what I got to
get into about this movie,though, and rewatching it, it's
like this movie understands kids, and it understands like a
kid's perspective and I knowthat because of how much this

(23:14):
movie meant to me as a kid andhow much I loved it and how much
it influenced me.
And then watching it as an adult, where it's like you know, you
start to see the imperfectionsand sure sure sure story
elements that come together inweird ways and strange pacing
issues and stuff, none of whichmeant and I did not see any of
that.
I did not even, you know.
And watching it last night Iwas like I feel like I'm

(23:37):
watching a, an edited version ofthis movie.
I remember all these scenesbeing three times as long.

Speaker 3 (23:43):
Yes, epic, twice as dramatic twice as epic.

Speaker 2 (23:46):
But I think it just speaks to like this movie
understood a child's perspectiveand you know when the rockbiter
said that when I saw it as akid I was like that's what I was
thinking.

Speaker 3 (23:56):
I thought look at how fast that snail's moving.

Speaker 2 (23:59):
It's just like it understands the magic and
obviously like the movies aboutthat, about you know, not losing
your imagination, and that typeof stuff.

Speaker 3 (24:07):
Yeah, I said that this was like kind of like it's
like young kids Star Wars, it'slike big fantastical creatures,
fantastical magical world thatyou're kind of moving through.
But they're all, it's not.
It does have a lot, a lot ofshortcomings in the storytelling
.
That again, I haven't seen thismovie.
Now, I guess that's a fairthing.
I haven't seen this movie inshit 20 years.

Speaker 2 (24:26):
Like you know, I've like.

Speaker 3 (24:27):
I've seen like a scene or something from it.
I'd be like, oh yeah, never inthe story, but it's been a long
time.
For me it was likewise.

Speaker 1 (24:34):
It's the same and I think I, when I on my rewatch,
one thing that stuck out andwe've already talked about the
scene was the bookstore and I,as soon as he like, walked in
and he's kind of discoveredbehind the stack of the books I
was.
I just asked myself thequestion.
I was like wait, is this why Ilike, really like dusty?

Speaker 3 (24:52):
old books.

Speaker 1 (24:52):
Yeah, I was like this might have been the genesis of
my like love affair of walkinginto rare bookstores and just
any bookstore, but anything thatI see that's got tomes in it, I
just I'm, I'm suckered in.

Speaker 2 (25:04):
It's so deep.
So much of this movie is.
So I remember it being so deep,yeah, you know, and even that
moment in the bookstore and youknow it is.
So watching this movie now, Idid see a lot of the
shortcomings that I never eventhat in the eye at as a kid.
But what I did see positivelywatching at this time was that
was exactly the same as it wasbefore, which was the score and

(25:28):
how sure how good that score was, so can I play this?

Speaker 3 (25:31):
Yeah, yeah, play a little score.

Speaker 2 (25:32):
This is so.
First moment you hear this, Ibelieve, is in the bookstore,
when he sees the book yes, andthis comes in and I go oh, how
drawing it draws you in.

Speaker 3 (25:45):
It's mysterious.

Speaker 2 (25:46):
It has fantasy, but it's a little bit scary, I mean,
I just think it's amazing, Ithink the whole score does so
much.

Speaker 3 (25:53):
No, it's great.
I think some of the score likereads super dated to me now when
I was listening to it this time, like some of it is like
straight up just like a discotrack, yeah, and like the
opening.
I was like I wrote downsomething like this is like you
know, I once heard an Abba song,you know what I mean.

Speaker 2 (26:07):
Like and this is like the track we wrote.
Hold on, hold on, wait a minute.
We talking about the song, thetitular song.
Yeah, play the titular song.
You're going to knock this song?

Speaker 3 (26:14):
Yeah, play that song Come on, the one that, like you
haven't seen the banger, youhaven't seen the movie in 20
years and I guarantee you stillknow this song.

Speaker 2 (26:22):
Dude, and it comes out of the gate.
That was the first thingrewatching.
I was like dude.
This movie starts in theopening credits.

Speaker 1 (26:30):
Yeah, I mean who's not transporting?
Leave it in the credits.

Speaker 3 (26:39):
You can't see this, but James is on the table
dancing.

Speaker 1 (26:43):
Oh man, yeah, please be careful.

Speaker 3 (26:44):
Be careful, take off.
Where did these platform shoescome from?
Are those very?
That's not like it sounds like.
It's like we've heard an Abbasong once and this is kind of
like our version of it.
Like nothing wrong with that,it is just it is very much of
the time.

Speaker 1 (27:00):
And apparently the, the synth and the techno pop was
only added for the, the USversion, like initially when
this was in Germany or whatever,and I think it's.
I will butcher his name or hername, but so I won't say it.
But now I'm curious yeah, Idon't want more order, more, it

(27:22):
looks like more.
I'm like more door looks likemore door Georgia, more door.
Who did the theme song whichpeaked at number four in the UK
and number six in the US?

Speaker 2 (27:31):
He did the theme song , he did a score to the movie.

Speaker 1 (27:34):
I think so.
Yeah, and then it was Klaus,yes, klaus doldinger.
I started the score and then hewas in the band passport at the
time and then more door came inand like did the score and then
wrote that song, and then theyadded the techno pop.

Speaker 3 (27:54):
So the techno like that opening title song is on
the US version only.

Speaker 1 (27:58):
Well, I have it.
I can't verify that because Ihaven't seen the German version
yeah.
But that's, and which I do wantto see, you know, because I'm
like, is that?
Because I can't imagine thescore without that?

Speaker 2 (28:08):
Sure.

Speaker 1 (28:09):
You know, and it just it's so emblematic to the you
know and of course that's I.
Can you not, can you not hearthe song still in your head
right now?

Speaker 3 (28:17):
Sure yeah, it lingers .
I'll give you that, I'll giveyou that.

Speaker 1 (28:20):
And the oh shoot.
I totally lost where I wasgoing to go with that, but so
it's not important.

Speaker 2 (28:27):
That's amazing.
I mean, he did the score too,and you know he did the score
for, like Scarface.

Speaker 1 (28:31):
Right, that's what I was saying, and Flash.

Speaker 2 (28:33):
Dance.
So there we go Scarface andFlash Flash Dance.
Put those two things together,weird.

Speaker 3 (28:40):
I think you get this combination of career Guys.
I almost, when I was a kid Iremember like this movie would
always be on and I early on Iwas like I would turn this movie
off because you get in and thefun, Maybe I fucked this movie.
Our tax just died in the swampand was like and I almost quit
again, Like this time through Iwas like I don't know.

Speaker 1 (29:00):
I don't know, man fucked this like I don't want to
do it.
Heavy it's so, so heavy.
It's so good to know, though,that that was a rumor that that
horse died.

Speaker 2 (29:10):
Yeah, okay so we all heard this.

Speaker 1 (29:12):
Yeah, yeah, it's a kid.

Speaker 2 (29:13):
Yeah, by the time we were in.
I didn't hear back.
Then I heard it like when we'remiddle school, high school, oh
yeah, oh yeah.
You know that scene.
You know why that scene sopowerful?
Because that horse, because thehorse actually died.

Speaker 1 (29:22):
Yeah, no, no, I believe it.
I did too long time like a nokidding.
It may have kept me fromrewatching the movie, because
I'm like I don't know but andrewatching at this time knowing
that that horse lived muchbetter.

Speaker 2 (29:35):
Still again.
I do remember that scene beingthree times as long.

Speaker 3 (29:38):
Yeah, no, it's intense, yeah, I same same.

Speaker 2 (29:41):
Even so it is.
It is so heavy and it is way,way dark for a kid to watch.
Oh my god, you know we'rewatching this at it.
I mean, I don't know what age Iwas watching this at, probably
very young.
I know I went to this.
I went to see the sequel intheaters and I looked at the
date on that and that puts me atsix or seven years old seeing
the sequel in theaters.

(30:02):
So I had to be watching thismovie.
I'm watching that.
You know the horse.
You know a kid pleading withhis horse, drowning at five,
which I mean that's so yeah,that's why it feels so intense.

Speaker 1 (30:15):
No, Hathaway is amazing in that.

Speaker 3 (30:17):
He is.

Speaker 1 (30:17):
I really is his anguish is real.
Now I think like unfortunatelyhe did get hurt like a multiple
times.

Speaker 3 (30:25):
He got messed up in that.
I don't know if it was thatscene or not, but when he was
riding the horse, that horselike he fell off and got stepped
on all kinds of stuff and thenthe, the god, I forgot the wolf
at the end.
Oh, come on oh yeah, the morelike something malfunctioned
about it.
It almost took his eye out,kind of thing.

Speaker 2 (30:42):
Yeah, which I, so I did clock.
As a kid I always thought thatfight with good mark was super
quick.
Yeah, yeah, he jumped out hejumps up and then all of a
sudden he was dead and I wasalways like a little.
I always thought that was weird.

Speaker 1 (30:54):
I always noticed that and that's the only take they
got.
Yeah, that's the one watching.
Is him getting now I see, yeah.

Speaker 2 (30:59):
There was an injury and you know, that's, that's all
they could get, or something.

Speaker 3 (31:01):
That's it.
You know, day was over.

Speaker 1 (31:03):
I mean, you damn near lost tonight, oh Not do that
again and speaking of Tolkien,that moment made me think of
Turin and Glaurung.
Like you know, this, you knowyou're going deep into the, the
children of her, yeah, yeah someMarillian and like this
overpowered, but like really andjust bad shit keeps happening

(31:25):
to this character.
Yeah and then is faced with thelike the scariest of all
villains, who is Actually teachyou like telling this character
the truth, which is like whatGal Glaurung kind of like would
put a spell on you by speakingall these truths to you.
And that's like Gamork doesthat and then jumps and spoiler

(31:47):
alert, because it was written inlike 1917 I think it's the
first draft of Turin, is he justliterally stabs him in the gut.
And that's how he ends thishuge, massive dragon, you know
what?

Speaker 2 (31:59):
so that's how this ends.
Yeah, and it's just like wolfand I.

Speaker 1 (32:03):
That happened and I just like, oh shit, this is
Turin, turin Park anyway.

Speaker 3 (32:07):
So I don't that was a deep cut again.
I mean putting you guys in herebringing up the simerillians a
little bit dangerous, because wemight just lose the rest of the
podcast entirely.
The.

Speaker 2 (32:16):
I was worried where I was rewatch, rewatching this
movie last night with my wifeand I'm, you know, forcing her
to watch a fellowship of thering for the home the umpteenth
time.
Yeah, we're watching in hissections you know, I was worried
like oh man, there's gonna belike a mash-up, you know we do
this thing.
We're watching so many thingsand it's like oh, mash up and
you start combining things inyour head.

Speaker 3 (32:35):
We did okay you know, I, uh, I had a whole.
I laughed out loud Wheneverthey got to the snail, the snail
like, or the turtle.
So the sorry, the turtle theturtle sneezes.
Yes, sneezes, Steases him offthe tree.
It literally happened the firsttime and I was standing in the
kitchen making dinner and Iliterally go.
You're welcome.

(32:56):
Oh yeah, God bless you.

Speaker 2 (32:59):
That has to be an influence.
I mean known or not known, Imean it's the same scene it is
yeah, I don't like uh, you knowI guess one triples down on it
though.

Speaker 1 (33:07):
Oh yeah, oh it's so gross, but with the you know so
more or less made me think ofall these like creatures that we
see right and like we're goingback to where he he's reading
and we're introduced to, to aTrey you and we're introduced to
the Empress and the.
The guy comes out to talk abouther and it feels very like

(33:29):
Wizard of Oz, like you're allhere to be saved and you can't
see the one behind the curtain.

Speaker 3 (33:35):
But you have to go on a quest for them.

Speaker 1 (33:37):
Yeah, and you know it's like got all these like
overlapping heroes journey style.
You know the themes going on.
And now, okay, did you tracksome of the characters that are
in the background?

Speaker 2 (33:51):
I?
I didn't, but I saw online.

Speaker 1 (33:53):
What what is this?

Speaker 3 (33:54):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (33:55):
Okay, all right, you're ready for this, steve.

Speaker 3 (33:57):
I'm ready.
What?

Speaker 1 (33:58):
I so when they're around, when they're around the
Empress's ivory tower.

Speaker 3 (34:02):
Okay, oh look, okay, we got images here.

Speaker 2 (34:06):
Yeah, so no yeah.

Speaker 1 (34:08):
Steve is looking at.
No, that's the ivory tower.

Speaker 2 (34:13):
I haven't been able to figure out.
I'm like is Steven Spielberg aproducer on this or he wasn't?
I don't know.
He's just like a friend of thedirectors.

Speaker 1 (34:20):
Yeah, well, and they, they needed Lucas films.
You know, help force likefilling out things?
Yeah, they were just so like.

Speaker 3 (34:26):
here We've got Gumby, yoda, chewbacca, mickey Mouse,
although that one I I don't knowthat you can completely confirm
that one from this image theEwoks ET and C3PO, et is like an
absolute yes, yeah, so C3PO,c3po is yeah, pretty.

Speaker 1 (34:42):
Ewoks are true to yeah.

Speaker 2 (34:44):
So at that point you, they got you got it.

Speaker 3 (34:46):
That's insane.
Yeah, what a crazy cameo.

Speaker 2 (34:50):
Just to clarify there .
There's a wide shot, you know,at the, at the.
Ivory tower every tower and youknow there's all the different
people from the different landsand among them in that Wide shot
is they filled it out with allthese different weird-looking
characters.

Speaker 3 (35:04):
I think you can also.
I think you're being prettygenerous with filled it out.
That looks like a day where youhad like half the background
actors show up.
You know what I mean.
Like that shot.

Speaker 1 (35:15):
Yeah, no, and and can I just talk about the fact that
, like, since we since we'vealready gotten to Moorla and
we're going back, it's okay.
So Fantasia needs to be saved,so they need the Empress, but
the Empress needs to send a hero.
The hero needs to go see Moorla, moorla needs to send him to
the Oracle.
The Oracle says, oh, you got arename it like it's just this

(35:36):
poor kid.

Speaker 3 (35:37):
Yeah, oh, it's sort of an odd Fever dream of a
narrative yeah, everything's aside quest.
Yeah, yeah everything's acomplete side quest and then we
get to the all the way, all theway.
I just want to say justice forour track, our tax, because he
dies and Immediately, that'sright.
He was on to the next thing andwe've just like completely
forgotten about.

Speaker 1 (35:56):
It's good to have a friend, I said and then here
comes Falcor, and we're like ohyeah.

Speaker 3 (36:02):
Upgraded and, although unfalcor is be honest,
does look like a little bit likea hair hair to the Siamese cat.
Okay, and since I was a kid, Iwas like what is this thing?

Speaker 1 (36:10):
Okay.
Yes, I want to ask like did youhave or do you remember having
emotional responses to Falcor?
I love Falcor, okay.

Speaker 2 (36:18):
Yeah, I love Falcor and he's.
He is so weird and so odd andyou never saw anything that
looked like that.
And the scales, the fact thathe had scales, I remember being
that so Almost weirded out by it.
But then, but yet you liked himand so it was like yeah,
exactly, it was just he's like aweiner dog with the skin.

Speaker 3 (36:37):
It was complex.
You know so much as movie I'm.

Speaker 2 (36:40):
It's so deep and complex for a kid.

Speaker 3 (36:42):
Yeah for a kid, yeah for sure story, wise elements
and stuff.

Speaker 2 (36:45):
Like we're talking about watch as an adult and
you're like okay, but again,like I Don't know the experience
of watching this movie as a kid, I would call it genius.
Yeah it knows what kids becauseit, because I know what that
experience was and it's theattention to this day and I'm
watching it now, and so much ofwhat I'm going through is based

(37:05):
in you know, obviously, thenostalgia of seeing it as a kid.

Speaker 1 (37:09):
Yeah, of course, yeah , I can't disassociate and the
powerful and the storytellingbeing like, you know, can't
divorce it from the fact thatit's German and we have, you
know, a lot of us grew up onGerman fairy tales.
It is dark fairy, dark fairytales and it's just like they.
You know grimm's fairy taleslike that is this Bavarian, you
know, and Central Western Europe.

(37:31):
Like this, these dark fairytales, and here's one on screen.

Speaker 2 (37:35):
Yeah, of course you know.
Falkor is amazing, though,because he's a.
You know, we don't see here inthe West a lot of good dragons
right.
Yeah, and he's a like a luckdrag a luck dragon, which goes
back to, like the Chinese, yeah,dragon mythology.

Speaker 1 (37:50):
I think where they were, you know and they were
long forces and they longer.
Yeah, and I did.
That was the first time I thinkI definitely would have ever
seen one, and didn't know for along time.
Oh, that's the.
Oh a luck dragon is actually athing From mythology as well.
Okay, hot take, though.
I Know we all love Falkor, butI think that's when I realized I
had trypophobia.
You guys know what trypophobiais no, I don't.

Speaker 3 (38:13):
What is?

Speaker 1 (38:13):
the fear of the concentric circles like all
tightly together.
When you see like somethingLike it's hard to explain, but
like when you see a bunch ofcircles near each other it's
supposed to like look likeinfection and some people get,
so it's a the people that haveit, or like me and I'm
describing it and it's kind ofpainful.
Okay, but it's like circlecheese, like looking at Swiss

(38:34):
cheese with a bunch of holes init.
It's kind of it's just gross,and there's apparently something
you know supposedly in Like theevolutionary science that it
meant decay, so stay away fromit.
Interesting, and so it's like adefense mechanism and I
remember as a kid Probably fiveor six as well watching this for
the first time and I foundFalkor's back gross.

Speaker 3 (38:55):
Oh, yeah, I mean the which is up there, yeah, and his
spine sort of weird, and thewhich is just injecting him with
a huge needle.

Speaker 1 (39:03):
What is this?

Speaker 3 (39:04):
he needs his vitamins , yeah like and he even goes
like bro.
It's like he doesn't like that.

Speaker 2 (39:10):
That was visceral, so is this movie so visceral?
That's a great term, I'mtelling you he just cut.

Speaker 3 (39:15):
But our tray you we've not given enough heat to
this a tray you cold drops ourtax.
He's like he meets Falkor andhe's like it's good to have a
friend again, like you mentionedit again, I was like Jesus
Christ Well yeah, okay.

Speaker 2 (39:28):
So there is a scene where we see him stumbling
through the mud afterwards,feeling complete despair and, to
be fair, the despair he feelsafter our text dies is so great
that he begins sinking as well,and he's sure he's in the mud
and about to die from despair.

Speaker 3 (39:44):
When Falkor luck finds him, yeah, but like dragon
finds me and I'll give you asecond.

Speaker 2 (39:50):
At the end of this thing where, like at the end of
the movie, he's with the Empress, she's like telling him what's
up and he brings it back.
He's like are you?
She's like oh, this whole thingwas for you to connect to a
human child and I like this isactually an adult moment right
here, because he's like my horsedied.
I have been to you all thiscrap and you're telling me I was

(40:13):
just supposed to connect with ahuman child like come on, man.
I even get one but he does bringit back.

Speaker 3 (40:20):
He's like my horse died lady right, yeah, he does,
and then back in the end, but Imean it's just like this huge
blank spot in the middle.
So do you think that?
Yeah that?
Do you think that Billy Crystaljust wasn't available to play
the?

Speaker 1 (40:33):
old side of that too, I was like cuz Princess Bride
is only a few years later.

Speaker 3 (40:38):
I mean, this is what I mean and this is the same the
same care, yeah oh, that istotal I when it.

Speaker 1 (40:44):
When they came up angle gook and Earl, I was like
oh my gosh, it's mad, mad Max,it's miracle max.

Speaker 3 (40:53):
He has the best.
I mean, one of the best linesof this movie is like when he's
going to his telescope and he'slike the to the witch wench.
Yeah, he's like she cranks himup to the top.
It's just fantastic.

Speaker 1 (41:06):
I'm not a winch, I'm your wife, but don't you said
I'm not sure I want to be thatanymore.

Speaker 3 (41:10):
It is Billy Crystal.

Speaker 1 (41:11):
I mean it just is yeah, and I think that Maybe I'm
wrong, but I think he'sspeaking in German as well.

Speaker 3 (41:16):
Yeah, that would make sense.
That's why he's so funny.

Speaker 2 (41:19):
I'm just gonna keep going broken record and talking
about how much, like as a kid,certain little scenes meant to
me.
Which are you know, after atray you get through.
You know, makes it through thelasers the lasers miss me makes
it through Southern Oracle andthen you know the the doctor
guy's so happy Down there andeverything.
I mean the joy that I rememberfeeling was just just level 10,

(41:44):
you know.

Speaker 3 (41:45):
Yeah, of course that's it, just brings it back
11.

Speaker 2 (41:47):
This is 1984, some years spinal.

Speaker 3 (41:51):
So how the hell did he lose Falcor?

Speaker 2 (41:56):
It's very blown over.
Yeah, it's like very much.

Speaker 3 (41:59):
Oh, he's like they're learning.
He's they're looking for eachother.
I'm like, wait a second, wait asecond, hold on.

Speaker 2 (42:03):
How does this happen?

Speaker 3 (42:04):
Yeah, the best part of this is flying on Falcor the
whole best part of the movie.
Every time it happens, that'sthe best part.
And then the next thing is likeall of a sudden they're not
together and I was like what I?

Speaker 1 (42:13):
kind of want to see this.
I bet there's got to be amashup or remix of that, of the
exact same scenes of him on theback of Falcor, but it's Lois
Lane and Superman, sure?
I Just want to see Is they'rejust flying over it, you know,
I'm like so they're looking forthe edge of, or they're looking,

(42:33):
I'm trying to remember theboundary of fantasy?
Yeah, the boundary of Fantasia.
But they're just like man, theyare good Fly cookin, yeah,
cooking, yeah, well, you know.

Speaker 2 (42:43):
and then, well, here's the other thing, though.
Hmm, steve, that's true, but hewas a luck dragon, I think he,
you know, he is luck, you know,personified.
So I think you know, he saves atray you, because a tray, you
got lucky, and you, out ofeveryone, knows how fast your
luck can run out, don't you?
I'm really?
It's a singer, I didn't.

(43:07):
I was like what is it?
I?

Speaker 3 (43:08):
was like kind of them thinking through my life.
I was like what has happened?
I really just meant we all knowhow, how fast you're lucky sure
, sure, sure, yeah, you're luckyand just turn just like your
luck and turn you, you lose yourthing.
You know, I can't tell you howmany times and he doesn't get it
.

Speaker 1 (43:22):
I can't tell you how many times.

Speaker 3 (43:23):
I've been flying on my air reindeer or my dog
reindeer, you know what I meanand all of a sudden my the luck
just turns.
I end up in the lake, beinglike where are you Every?

Speaker 1 (43:33):
and it's like I'll be right there.
I got to go find the RN first.
Yeah, exactly, find themedallion.

Speaker 3 (43:39):
Yeah and again.
Look, he's much more upsetabout losing Falkor than he was
our tax.

Speaker 2 (43:43):
Like he was more time .

Speaker 3 (43:44):
It was like when fell news is Falkor, it's like the
worst thing that's ever happened.
Our tax was like sort of a badTuesday.

Speaker 1 (43:51):
Right, oh, you got something to the swamp.

Speaker 3 (43:53):
Oh, you're out of the happy, or okay?
Well, you know.

Speaker 1 (43:56):
I, yeah, and what's wild too is so we keep talking
about what things that remind usof other, like we've mentioned
Lewis, carol and Tolkien and anda few others, and there's the
moment where the the, the, theOracle, the southern Oracle says
you know, you have to name a.
Well, that's actually a kind ofan interesting script thing.

(44:17):
But they say an earthling later.
Later they do say human child.
So I was like huh, can I get ascripty on this?
You started with earthlingchild and you went with a human
child.
But the.
And then two things immediatelycame to mind, which was Narnia.
And you know, because they youknow all these creatures who
belong to the earth know they'relike or belong here in Narnia,

(44:39):
they're like wait, you're a sonof Adam, you're a daughter of
Eve.
Like you're, you don't belonghere.
And so this whole idea of a, ofan earthling child, yeah, it
doesn't belong here.
And and then also the namingthing, which is very much a
creation story thing, like whenman is made in God's image, his
job is get, he gets to nameThings.

(45:00):
That's where the power comesfrom, is like you get to name
things, you use your, and soit's like wow, like in two
seconds it was like oh, there'screation mythology, you know,
there's that.
You get, you get a Genesis andyou get CS Lewis.
I was a happy boy at thatmoment.

Speaker 3 (45:18):
Yeah, you have to mention CS Lewis and connection
to this, because it just it does.
It's like Star Wars, cs Lewis.

Speaker 2 (45:24):
Oh, it's what it sort of feels like but then it also
has this like and you touch onit here the whole have, you know
, him having to name somethingand they need, they need him to
be involved.
That's the extra element that'snot in these other stories,
that is in this trip where youstart to get that.
He's writing the story as he'sreading it right, he's involved.
You know, like it's.

(45:44):
He's not passive, he is aplayer in this world and he's
creating the world and they theystart baking that in so slowly
and so well.
I think oh they really do, andthose scenes are great yeah.

Speaker 3 (45:58):
Yeah, yeah, that's with.

Speaker 2 (45:59):
Bastion when he's reading and he'll look up and
say and the lines are ridiculous, you know, he looks up and says
it can't be true.
Yeah, and yet the proof it'slike you're totally with him,
you're like, oh man, I'm withyou, I feel this, you know, and
it's like in that moment.

Speaker 1 (46:12):
Oh, it's one of my favorite little cute Barrett
Oliver Bastion moments when heeats the sandwich and he takes a
bite.
Oh my god can we talk aboutthat?
Oh, and he's like no, that'senough for now.
It's a long journey, you knowsound effect when Bastion eats
the sandwich the sandwich.

Speaker 3 (46:29):
Oh my god, I rewatched it five times.
Not not even joking, it is.
Go look it up.
It is the best sound.
The city, it is like squishy,like he.
The line is like he goes theEmpress and it's like a slurp as
he eats a sandwich.
It's like and it's so loud,it's hilarious, I'm not even

(46:51):
joking.
I rewound it five times andlaughed my ass off.

Speaker 2 (46:54):
After the first one, they were like OK, that's why
he's just going to take one bite.

Speaker 3 (46:58):
Yeah, we're good, we're good.
It's like it feels likesomething you know, this whole
film, like those scenes I wouldbelieve weren't a yard Like I
believe those are actual naturalaudio and it feels like one of
those things is like I mean, god, I don't know how that kid is
making that sound.
Can we get it?
Can we get a line clean withoutthat?
Because it's like it's bread,but somehow it's like well.

Speaker 1 (47:17):
I sound.
Have you ever seen a childslurp a sandwich?

Speaker 3 (47:20):
I'm just going to slurp down this egg and cheese
really quick.

Speaker 1 (47:22):
Oh, I learned it from my dad.
Exactly, julius, yeah, exactly.

Speaker 2 (47:27):
I don't like the method anyway that he's eating
the sandwich, you know, like thebite in the middle, you know, I
don't know.

Speaker 1 (47:32):
I do have a gripe.

Speaker 2 (47:33):
You can't just do one bite in the middle and then not
take off the sides with the twonext.

Speaker 3 (47:38):
Can I go super dark?
Yeah, of course, I mean always.

Speaker 1 (47:41):
Well, you know his mom's dead because the sandwich
is not cut.
Oh my God.

Speaker 2 (47:45):
Yeah, dun dun, dun, dun, dun dun dun.
Oh, my God, yeah.

Speaker 3 (47:50):
You can't, you can't take one bite out of the middle
and not take out the sides,because your cheek gets covered.
Your cheeks get covered inwhatever you're eating.
It's yeah.

Speaker 2 (47:56):
But again I mean there may and I don't think that
was in this moment, but thereis something to all.
I mean, obviously him havinglost the mom is a huge part of
the movie and everything.

Speaker 1 (48:07):
Well, he said, like, why didn't they ask me?
My mom had a beautiful name.

Speaker 2 (48:11):
Like so we're going to get to the name, yeah.

Speaker 1 (48:13):
Do we want to go there?
I'm fine.
Yes, go to the name.

Speaker 2 (48:16):
It's got the name, I mean we have to come back to it.
Yeah, so it's revealed theEmpress.

Speaker 3 (48:20):
I mean I also just got to touch one or more thing
with Bastion, like in this scene, because like the Empress like
says, you know, saying like, andhe's here and he just doesn't
know Bastion has the best lineof the films he goes what.
Oh yeah.

Speaker 2 (48:33):
Bastion's line oh man , he's just I mean okay.

Speaker 1 (48:39):
Crushed it.

Speaker 3 (48:40):
That is, it's like an adult level performance out of
this little kid.
It's just so good.

Speaker 2 (48:46):
What.
Look at me talking about me.

Speaker 3 (48:51):
Oh, it's so good, it's so dramatic.
And.

Speaker 2 (48:53):
I was just, you're just completely with him.
Also that little girl who playsthe Empress Tami.
I always found her performance.

Speaker 1 (49:01):
She's so good.

Speaker 3 (49:03):
She's so good.

Speaker 2 (49:04):
It's intriguing.
She's spiking the camera andcrying into it and she has a.
I mean, it's like that's likethe kid who plays Elliot and ET
level.
Yeah, you know where you're,just like whoa, yeah, like she's
very engaging.

Speaker 3 (49:17):
So she was 11 when she did this.
I remember when I wrote downthe note and then I deleted it
because I was like I don't wantto, I wouldn't want to comment
on this, but her teeth look soweird.
Oh, when I was watching it, Iwas like, and I was just doing a
little looking, and she hadlost her two front teeth and
they put in fake teeth and I waslike, well, now I could talk
about it because she had fakeshe was growing up.

(49:39):
She was growing up but she hadlike weird, they were very, very
square and sort of an odd colorand I was like, oh, this poor
girl, she's a good thing, she'sa good actress, maybe she gets
some dental work.

Speaker 1 (49:47):
So, yeah, exactly, she's like hey does.
Can I use George Washington'sdentures for this?
Exactly, yeah.

Speaker 3 (49:53):
If it looked like wooden teeth.

Speaker 1 (49:55):
Yeah, and there was.
I mean, I don't know if it wasabout the teeth or what it did
to her bite, but like herperformance was as ethereal as
her.

Speaker 3 (50:01):
Yeah, very much so.

Speaker 1 (50:02):
You know, she's the young emperor.
She doesn't look, she doesn'tfeel young, she feels like just
ethereal and like you ever.

Speaker 2 (50:10):
Old and young at once .

Speaker 1 (50:11):
Yes, wise, but young.

Speaker 3 (50:14):
Yeah so.

Speaker 1 (50:14):
I guess the makeup was sick.

Speaker 3 (50:16):
Yeah, the audition, like 3000 people for that role
or something I read and that theshe the first time she read for
them.
They're like I mean she's good,but she looks total weird
because she was like, came inall like dumpy and kind of like
was wearing face paint fromanother show she was in or
something like a theater play.
It's just a theater.

Speaker 2 (50:32):
Yeah, I read that she she wasn't interested in
getting into film and she shewanted to do theater.
And when she, apparently whenshe auditioned for this, she
thought she said she thought itwas a theater role.

Speaker 3 (50:42):
Oh, I didn't know that.

Speaker 1 (50:42):
Oh, that's interesting, Just an audience of
one right into the camera.

Speaker 2 (50:46):
Yeah, so anyway she's .
So they were like yeah.

Speaker 3 (50:49):
And then, well then, I guess she like dressed up or
whatever, and then came back andthey're like, oh yeah, no,
she's super good.

Speaker 1 (50:55):
I mean 3000 kids to yeah that's a lot.
Not a single self tape, exactly, but bridging the points right.

Speaker 2 (51:01):
Like you know, we we get throughout the movie that
he's involved Right.
The first time, or one of thefirst times, is in the mirror,
when, when a tray walks up tothe mirror.

Speaker 3 (51:12):
Right, yes.

Speaker 2 (51:13):
And I remember being so freaked out by that, you know
, when I was a kid and just likehe sees himself, he sees
bastion in his reflection, andthe two of them.
It's not just one way.
The fact is that it's two ways,two way you can see that they
both see the other.
Right, there's no dialogue aboutthat, you just see it in their
performances, right, that theyboth they're they're aware of

(51:34):
one another.
Right, that that part, you know, is great and anyway.
So we discover that that heneeds to give the Empress a name
.

Speaker 1 (51:44):
A name, yeah, a name, and they had talked about that
earlier and like I mean, here'sthe because, the whole thing I
tracked, at least in this movie,that I obviously didn't track
as a kid.
So I was like, oh, we'redealing with grief of losing
your mom and 100 percent.
And because it set up soperfectly, keep your feet on the
ground, like you were sayingearlier Exactly.
And then this entire story isabout not being on the ground.

Speaker 3 (52:07):
Oh, finding the you know, finding the ability to be
a kid again within the trauma oflike loss of your parents.

Speaker 1 (52:12):
And the fact that you know like it even opens with
that we talked about it up top,like I had another dream about
mom and and then you know he'smaking dreams about unicorns.
But then it's like, OK, he'sdealing with grief, he's talking
about his mom, and then he evensays at one point, my mom had
such a beautiful name.

Speaker 2 (52:30):
Yeah, I wish they would ask me what you know I
could give her a name.

Speaker 3 (52:33):
That's I mean that's the real masterstroke of this
film.
I will say, like everything upto there is pretty.
You know, I wouldn't say it'sdone, but it exists, like it's.
It's sort of a mashup of itsown version of different things
that have existed before it.
Right, that was themasterstroke is like whenever
you realize that the kid isgoing to be the turn, and then
in the end, when it says, oh,she just needs a new name, and

(52:54):
it says mom, then it's like atall.
that's where it really syncs upand you're like that's, that's
what makes this unique.

Speaker 2 (52:59):
Oh yeah, that scene is so dramatic you know it's a
Trey, you and the Empress, andthey're talking about him, about
him, and he's reading it, buthe can't believe it.

Speaker 1 (53:08):
And they're like please do it, you know yeah.

Speaker 2 (53:12):
Oh man, incredible scene.
Okay, so he goes out.
He finally says I'm going toshout, I'm going to all do it.
Okay, I'll do it and I'll giveyou a name.
And he opens up the window andit shouts the name, but it's,
it's storming outside and youcan't hear it.
He says again I mean, I rememberthis my whole life.

(53:32):
I did.
I was like and I would take itback, we would rewind it.
Oh yeah, we would sit there andlook at it and try to figure it
out.
We could never figure out whathe said, which I think is very
intentional, right.

Speaker 3 (53:43):
Oh yeah, it's again very smart.
That's again what makes thatwork for me.
If you get up and you're likeEloise, it's just.
You know what I mean.

Speaker 1 (53:55):
Like it's going to be .
Aside from that, the part thatthat would be a great name, yeah
.

Speaker 2 (54:01):
I mean, we know it was his mom's name, right?

Speaker 3 (54:03):
Yeah, betsy Lou who.

Speaker 2 (54:08):
But it's done so well too because it's not like
Wayne's World where, like, theplane flies over and you just
can't hear.
No, yeah, no, no, no, you canhear him and you can see him it
feels like you should be able todo it, it's just like you know
it's just one thing I like tipyour tongue style or you're like
yeah, exactly.

Speaker 3 (54:26):
Almost Is it this, but it's not.

Speaker 2 (54:28):
And you can never figure it out, so I watched it
with subtitles this time.

Speaker 3 (54:32):
Yeah, oh, no, yeah.
What does he say?
What are they doing with thesubtitles?

Speaker 1 (54:36):
Oh, you watched it with subtitles because you
watched it with Mallory, and Iwatched subtitles as well
Because I think Mallon, oh yeah,me and my wife always watch
subtitles, right, and I do too.

Speaker 2 (54:45):
Stuff, she got me into that, yeah, I love, I love.

Speaker 1 (54:47):
Oh yeah, it's great, but I didn't for this one and I
was not tracking, as that momentwas coming, that it was going
to be in front, because I, youknow, I just had him there and
it and then.
So, when he ran to the window,I just stared at where the name
was going to be yeah, I juststared at it, like it was even
slow motion for me as Moon childcomes up.

Speaker 2 (55:11):
So it says moon child .

Speaker 1 (55:12):
I stopped, I had to go back, so I'm like okay.

Speaker 2 (55:17):
Okay, that's worse.
I don't buy that for one secondso I go online and they're like
, yeah, in the that in the bookI think it's moon child.

Speaker 1 (55:28):
Yeah, it's.

Speaker 2 (55:30):
Um gosh, and I still don't buy it.

Speaker 3 (55:33):
I that's worse, that's really disappointing, I
wish they just said he screamsintelligibly.

Speaker 1 (55:39):
Yeah, something like that.
Well, in German it's mood andkin.

Speaker 2 (55:43):
So, maybe that's the answer, maybe the mom's name,
maybe that's a name in German orsomething, because to me it
makes no sense, because we knowthat it's his mom's name.

Speaker 3 (55:53):
Yes, of course yes.
So, oh, it's not his mom's namechild.
Yeah, it's not his mom's name.
Everything that is good aboutthat is completely erased.
Yeah, it's just a lot.
We know it was.

Speaker 2 (56:04):
Yeah, it's so it's so in the movie at least now now
in the book it's mood and kind,so maybe maybe that makes sense
in German.

Speaker 1 (56:13):
I don't know, but yeah, or maybe they just changed
enough child of the moon, Ithink is technically what that
would be, but like if you wereto vent, because then that would
be Kin.
Does you know?
Mulder?
You know, but like so, but, ifyou're gonna be Mulder kind, it
would be a name like, yeah, youknow welcome to Matt fumbles
through German.
Yeah, you're welcome.

(56:33):
Happy or flicks now in.
German.
Yeah, you know I just ifthey're gonna do that whole
movie in German and then dub itin English, we're gonna do this
whole thing German.
Take all the synth out.

Speaker 2 (56:52):
I'm not satisfied with that answer if I don't know
if we have listeners who'd makecomments or anything.
But I would love to hearanyone's perspective, because if
you go online, they saybasically say oh yeah, that's
true, it is moonchild in thebook.
I'm gonna say that they change.
I also know that they changed alot in making the movie right
enough to make the.

Speaker 3 (57:11):
Author hate it yeah.

Speaker 2 (57:13):
And also, the movie only covers half the book and
then apparently the ending iscompletely different.
The movie is completelydifferent than the book.
So, I'm gonna go ahead andthink that I think this whole
stuff with his mom, you know,and her name was probably for
the movie.

Speaker 3 (57:26):
Sure yeah, of course.

Speaker 2 (57:27):
Yeah, things don't line up, but you know.

Speaker 3 (57:33):
You're required to do subtitles and captions and
things for like deliveries offilms for, obviously for very
good reasons, but there aremoments like this that once a
while arrives where it's it, youcan't.
You can't take the secondaryDeliverable you hope that I mean
.
Oftentimes those are done by.
I guarantee you, the directordidn't subtitle this movie.
No, you know what I mean.
Like this was subtitled by, youknow, and it's a company in

(57:55):
Italy.
Yeah, third, intern from theleft at a contracting company,
you know, I mean, and theypulled something.
I'm probably 15 years after themovie.
Yeah, exactly, it's like thisis not see.
You can't let things like thatkill, because it obviously is
the mom's name and Obviouslythat should have been handled.
And if you're, that's reallywhat there's such a bummer about
this is.
I bet there are a bunch, is awhole generation of, like you
know, hearing impaired peoplewho've been watching this movie

(58:18):
and being like, oh yeah, this issuper cool.
Then they get to that momentthey're like yeah, fuck this
movie.

Speaker 2 (58:22):
Like what does the hell's moon child I mean?
That's the thing that brings itall together.
That, yeah, I mean.
So that's not a lot for it.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (58:30):
I mean, it's like the song says say my name, say my
name, you know when.

Speaker 3 (58:34):
No, one is around.

Speaker 1 (58:36):
You say baby, I love.

Speaker 3 (58:37):
you Say my name, say my name no, you skipped a little
bit.
No what?
Did I skip if you ain't runninggame.
Yeah, there you go I justwanted to hear how long you
could go.

Speaker 1 (58:46):
It was not very far.

Speaker 3 (58:48):
Now do it in German.

Speaker 1 (58:49):
Yeah, oh, there have been the noise he should hike a
product.
I'm it, I'll see it.

Speaker 3 (58:55):
I'll stop okay, well, you're welcome.
Hey, so did you guys seeanybody who's left listening.
Did you see this scene likewhen they're running down the a
falcours, like chasing the, the,the bullies in the alleyway?
Okay, again, the end of thismovie here is so Okay, so great,
so great.

Speaker 2 (59:15):
After all of the fantasia is destroyed and they
have the little seed again,which is a very meaningful scene
and and so impactful when I sawit as a kid.
And there it's, one grain ofsand is all that's left of
Fantasia, you know, and they'rejust standing there in the dark,
but it's Bastion.

Speaker 3 (59:33):
It's right, right I trade you.

Speaker 2 (59:34):
It's Bastion right, and that's the big difference
here is now he's fully, he'scome into the book and it's him.
It's, he's not, he's not livingthrough the character, it's him
.
And then he makes his firstwish and he's instantly ride.
It's him riding on Falcour, andso, seeing that, that again
I'll use the word genius on thisfor a kid's perspective,
because watching that is likethe transference of that is now

(59:58):
you get to ride, you got to seethe hero do it, but now it's you
.
You know the kid, the real kidthat, the kid that you identify
with.

Speaker 3 (01:00:07):
This is like.
This is why Star Wars worldexists in the, in Disney land.

Speaker 1 (01:00:11):
Yeah and there's always like a distance, and that
is like to like this is I'll bethe third one to say this word
about this movie the genius moveit makes you know, and that is
allowing the one who was readingit to be in it, and because
it's not just, oh, I'm gonnawrite you in.
No, you are it, you are centralto this story happening.
And then also like and I don'tremember catching this, but as

(01:00:36):
the Empress says to Bastion, youwatched us like they are
watching you right, yes, yeah,and I was like that's where it
gets fun.

Speaker 2 (01:00:44):
Yeah, I was like I'm in the story For this.
That's what's great about.
That's what we're kind ofsaying here's like this
Different about this movie isthat's where it really strikes
its own unique cord.
Yes, these other things don'tdo that.

Speaker 3 (01:01:02):
Yeah, I.
So I was talking about thattracking shot from like a
technical aspect, because Idon't know if it's a long follow
shot and like a wide in analleyway with things over at
point yeah.
I was like how did theyaccomplish this?
Because you couldn't have doneit with a helicopter, because
there's too many things there'slike bridges and stuff right
over the top.
They had to have done some kindof crazy cable rig or something
.

Speaker 1 (01:01:20):
Cable Rig cable rig and this is at the beginning of
green screening, like this isyeah, it was a shot on the
largest blue screen at the time.

Speaker 2 (01:01:26):
So obviously Bastion and Falcor are different element
of it.

Speaker 3 (01:01:31):
Yeah, what?

Speaker 2 (01:01:32):
they're seeing, but yeah, the shot itself flying
through there I like.

Speaker 3 (01:01:36):
The perspective of the camera is pretty obviously
is before drones.

Speaker 2 (01:01:38):
Yeah, so it's a long-ass cable.

Speaker 1 (01:01:41):
I did the same thing.
I was like how did they, howdid they?
Yeah, put those two, threeshots together right.

Speaker 3 (01:01:48):
Yeah, I was really sort of impressed by that.
For sure, there are like a justa couple things that I like
noticed that I want to bring upin this film.
For sure, like I wrote down anote Shooting a trail on our tax
, because then whenever they'reflying on Falcor and he's like I
was like that had to been acrazy day.
Only in the 80s could he donethis.
And only later Did I find outthat he fell off the horse and,

(01:02:10):
like God, stepped on and I waslike it's 100% on this shot yeah
like hey, here, 10 year old,jump on this horse and just ride
it off into the fuckingwilderness Full Gallop.
There's no one.

Speaker 2 (01:02:23):
There's no safety people within a thousand feet at
least exactly yeah, hit themost man.

Speaker 1 (01:02:29):
I mean yeah, cuz that's why that shot was so wide
.

Speaker 2 (01:02:31):
It was huge while we're still on this moment.

Speaker 1 (01:02:33):
Can I?

Speaker 2 (01:02:34):
really expect to the score again, Sure yeah sure
again, the score are hearingagain the childhood wonder of
getting to ride Falcor yourself.
Yes and then they bring it inwith this.
You know, this is like.

Speaker 3 (01:02:46):
I can love design.

Speaker 1 (01:02:48):
I can look like this is high.

Speaker 2 (01:02:50):
Take a look, okay, and then bashing go in it yet.
With the fist in the air.

Speaker 1 (01:03:01):
With the dynasty strings underneath it.
Oh yeah tonight on dynasty I.

Speaker 3 (01:03:11):
Just the score.

Speaker 2 (01:03:13):
That was really my big takeaway on this.
Viewing as an adult was likethe score was unchanged.
It was, as good as I rememberit, 100 yeah yeah, the score.

Speaker 1 (01:03:24):
It was just so transformative and I and the
fact that it opened with, I meanit just brings you in
immediately.
It opens with one of the bestsongs in Cinematic history with
the Abba D side.

Speaker 3 (01:03:39):
Yeah with the.

Speaker 2 (01:03:40):
Abba D side that was better than any of the A sides,
so it took 25.

Speaker 3 (01:03:46):
Team of 25 people.
I read to puppeteer Falcor 25people, but only one for a rock
binder.
It's just a person, rock binder, it's just one person.
Inside for the rock and takepuppet seat.

Speaker 1 (01:03:57):
Yeah, I love that, I love that puppet.

Speaker 3 (01:04:00):
Yeah, and apparently they were like doing all that to
like to recorded vocal tracks.
So they were like and I readthe thing on there like they
took them forever to perfect,like getting to know.

Speaker 2 (01:04:10):
I was like maybe some perfect my little.

Speaker 3 (01:04:16):
I mean, you get to get it close enough, I guess so
this is Jim Henson's CreatureWorkshop right.

Speaker 1 (01:04:22):
Well, is it?
No, cuz I don't think so, and Iwas having trouble finding that
because he does, jim Hensondoes a never-ending story, part
three.

Speaker 3 (01:04:31):
So there's players in this story and our buddy, jason
, james Right, yes.

Speaker 2 (01:04:36):
There's players in this movie.
I can't figure out theirrelationships.
Steven Spielberg is one of them.
Yes, it's like he's not.
I don't think he's listed as aproducer.

Speaker 1 (01:04:43):
And yeah, he's uncredited, right uncredited,
and if you look, but he's heldout in the movie and you know it
says editor Spielberguncredited, but that's it.

Speaker 2 (01:04:53):
That's the only credit he gets, and I think
there's Jim Henson Involvementthere has to well, but I just
can't figure out what it is.

Speaker 3 (01:05:00):
I would be surprised by that, because I don't think
these animatronics really holdup.

Speaker 1 (01:05:03):
Yeah, they don't you know, you know it's two years
later and think about how good.
Yeah, exactly, jim.

Speaker 3 (01:05:07):
Henson stuff is usually just so over the top
good even down to the imprecise,and while this is a lot of
Interesting things happening, Iwould not call it precise.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:05:18):
No, it's a good point .
The Okay, who was that?
I'm trying to think, because Ido want to talk about Gamork.
Um, I also.

Speaker 2 (01:05:25):
I want to take it back to more left.

Speaker 1 (01:05:26):
We can yes, oh yeah, yoda the, but oh, who is it?
Yeah, his name is Ui Dorico.
He was the conceptual artist,the creature and Scenic designer
, and now is no.
That's how he's credited in themovie, but now is count, ui
Dorico.

Speaker 3 (01:05:46):
Oh wow, he's a count.

Speaker 1 (01:05:48):
So he was the conceptual artist creature and
the scenic designer.
He had worked on flash Gordonin 1980, I believe, and then
never ending story to like oneof the only other people to come
back for never ending story to.

Speaker 2 (01:06:02):
The guy in the bookstore yes, the guy coriander
.
Yes, yes, wilford brimley light.
Okay, so more love.
The big turtle yes, more love.
Blew my mind as a kid the factthat he starts off as a hill
that and then when he comes upand it's a turtle, like, yeah, I
Remember seeing that and mymind was literally opened up

(01:06:25):
like I did not know Somethinglike that could happen.
You know, like that that was a.
I didn't understand, that thatwas a possibility, that was a
thing.
Yeah, even in a fantasy elementlike that, that.
You know, a change like thatcould happen in a movie.
That's a great really blew mymind.

Speaker 1 (01:06:39):
I think, I think that's, yeah, let that not be
lost, because I remember thattoo, because I I remember Him
gut, and I'm like, oh, where'sthe entrance to more lives,
layer where you know, or?
Right, I was on the hill thatyou know he's on the hill, so
there's got to be a hole orentrance, and then it starts to
move and it, yeah, and then wetalked about the sneezing

(01:07:01):
already, but again, thedesperation of that scene is so
good and a tray.

Speaker 2 (01:07:06):
He's just getting dirtier and dirtier and covered
in mud and climbing back up thattree right away every time so
effective.
And then I also love thecharacter of Moorla.
How apathetic he is.

Speaker 3 (01:07:19):
Oh yeah, I'm allergic to you, exactly like.
How real is that?

Speaker 2 (01:07:24):
Yeah, like he says I don't care, or you know, he
speaks in the third right, so hesays we don't care, and then he
says we don't even care, thatwe don't care right.
Complete apathy, which is whatthey're talking about with, like
the nothing, right yeah?

Speaker 1 (01:07:42):
Well, that was another thing I tracked that
like, had felt to me like abiblical thing.
There's the book ofEcclesiastes, which is about
nothing matters, that all, allis dust in the wind.
That's actually where thatcomes from.
Oh, yeah, and it is yeah, and so, like all, we do all of this
under the Sun, and yet it is alldust and will fade away.
That is the book ofEcclesiastes.

(01:08:03):
It's a beautiful, and when I'mhearing her take say this, or
him say this, or whatever theyou know more or less say this,
and I just immediately wrote, oh, none of that matters, that's
what more or less says, none ofthat matters.
I was like, oh my gosh, that islook legit, lifted right.

Speaker 2 (01:08:22):
And I didn't get this as a kid, but watching it now
that was like the thing that wasthe most profound to me is like
the perspective of that and andthe you know the relation to
that of like depression and youknow, just getting down and not
being feeling like you can't gofurther or feeling like you've
lost everything or you Aren'tdoing well or whatever it is.

(01:08:42):
It's that perspective right.
It's like the nothing is coming.
And you know the apathy ofMorla, you know, or he's just
like he doesn't care.

Speaker 3 (01:08:52):
He didn't want to try years.

Speaker 2 (01:08:53):
You know he's like you'll never get there anyway,
don't right and you know, and atray you sitting there saying
that nothing's gonna come andget you too he has yeah whatever
you know, I don't care I didtake, nothing matters.

Speaker 3 (01:09:05):
He's a nihilist, he cares about not.

Speaker 2 (01:09:09):
Sounds exhausting.

Speaker 1 (01:09:12):
Well, and that made me think of immediately I Took a
note about the themes andthinking about being children
watching this, but also as anadult, like Reliving that
perspective and I was like, oh,there's definitely themes of
children not being takenseriously here.
I'm for sure, I'm allergic tochildren you know, except you
know, bastion, you need to buckup the Like, the scoffing at a

(01:09:35):
tray you and a tray who sayswell, I'm a tray you, yeah, you
know to go on this, and he'slike but you're just a child and
I'm like, good lord, could wego like, beat up this.

Speaker 2 (01:09:43):
You know, by the way, from a people whose Empress is
a child.

Speaker 1 (01:09:47):
Yeah, yeah, maybe that's why she's sick, you know.

Speaker 2 (01:09:51):
But again the store, like again, like watching it as
a doll.
You know, there's so many storyelements that are just kind of
like yeah, okay, they didn'tmatter.

Speaker 3 (01:10:01):
They did not matter to me and that's the thing about
kids, children's I mean, andthat's really what, oh.
So one other thing here on theabout that.
I got one more thing.
The special effects director,brian Johnson, said the 12 year
old star Noah Hathaway was a bitof a pain apparently.
Frankly, is very difficult forhim to get anything out of him,
and Bastion delivered all thetime.

(01:10:22):
He was just brilliant,absolutely brilliant.

Speaker 2 (01:10:23):
Okay, well, this is a guy talking about a kid who got
injured three times.

Speaker 3 (01:10:27):
Yes, yes, it is the effects director, effects
director, so I'm not sure howthis is colored here, right?

Speaker 2 (01:10:36):
Speaking of colored, by the way, there he was
supposed to be green.

Speaker 1 (01:10:40):
Yes, cut green.

Speaker 2 (01:10:41):
He was of the dream you was supposed to be of the
green people, but I guess theytried it and it just looked like
crap or something.

Speaker 1 (01:10:47):
I saw something that might have been test footage of
it and apparently, yeah, theywas like this doesn't work and
of course, if this they're doingthe big blue screen and green
screen stuff it's sure and wheredid it try you go?

Speaker 3 (01:10:58):
Oh, we got an entire scene of a Falcor kick.

Speaker 1 (01:11:02):
Can we just talk about, okay, g'mork.
I do want to like circle andtalk about G'mork.
So we have this in this storyof like you go here and you
learn this and we need you to dothis and go.
You know, and I keep we weretalking about earlier skyside,
side quest, side quest, sidequest and then you get to G'mork
at the end and it's chilling,chilling of this, just this face

(01:11:24):
in the door of the dark lookingyeah and then basically just
tells him the truth, tells himeverything that none of the
other adults were telling himlike, and he's yes, he's using
it for nefarious reasons.
He's not actually doing itbecause truth and love is the

(01:11:44):
only way truth exists and theonly way love exists.
If you Separate them to, youcan beat people up with one and
you become a hallmark card withthe other, but together you get
like that's, that's actual truth, that's actual love.
And he's only doing one of themright.
He's beating him up with thetruth, with the facts of what
Fantasia is.
And I'm going, the only onewho's speaking any sense in this

(01:12:06):
whole damn movie is the villainand he's about to destroy him,
or you know, literally yeah,yeah again.

Speaker 2 (01:12:13):
I got to bring that back to.
It's like to me watching atthis time.
It's like G'mork, is that voicein your head?
You know, yeah, who.
A lot of the stuff that thevoice in your head tells you is
based in truth.
You know, right, you did fuckthose things up.
You know you are.
These are your weak points,yeah, but you know that it's
being used.
You know it's a blood to a placeto, to bring you down and just

(01:12:34):
to put you into apathy and toput you in a, you know, a
depressed state.

Speaker 1 (01:12:37):
So I mean, that's the magic, if you will, going back
to what Tolkien talks about withdragons, like being able to
speak and I mean they even dothat in Game of Thrones as well.
Part of the magic of the dragonis like it puts you under a
spell.
There's all these truths thatcome out about yourself that
make you just feel awful, andGamork does this to you, know,

(01:12:57):
atreyu, and it's just it's-.

Speaker 2 (01:12:59):
But devastating it was.
I remember it being completelyterrifying that scene, starting
with just the art design of thatscene.
Yeah, that's how atreyu goesthrough there and he starts
seeing all the girls and they'reold but they're of him, all the
stuff that he's done, andthey've obviously been painted
long ago, but they're all thethings that he did.
Again that's like a level ofdeepness that, like my little

(01:13:19):
kid mind was just like wait whatLike.

Speaker 1 (01:13:23):
I was.
I was blunt, my mind was blown.

Speaker 2 (01:13:25):
How could that be?
You know how is that possible?
You know like they're dealingwith levels of things.
Again, talking about like.
That brings it back to likeBastion being involved in
writing the own story.
As it's going, it's like theseare concepts that as a kid, were
you know, I had not thought ofbefore.
It's like the first time I wasseeing these things.
You know, that's so scary.

(01:13:46):
And then the last.
Oh, then he gets to the lastportrait, and it's of Gamork.

Speaker 1 (01:13:51):
Right.
And then he turns around andit's Gamork.
Gamork is right there, andthat's a pretty junky puppet.

Speaker 3 (01:13:58):
I think we'll all say , like it's a junky puppet.

Speaker 2 (01:14:00):
But they did a good job at keeping him silhouetted
in the darkness.

Speaker 3 (01:14:05):
They did the best they could with what they had.

Speaker 2 (01:14:07):
I think Right, and then the Hymston there and
talking like that too, yeah,like that was very effective,
like the way they did that, yeah, and I guess that brings me to
a question Like if we want to goesoteric on this for a minute.
Cause.
Why not?
We haven't done that.
Oh sorry, Okay.

Speaker 1 (01:14:24):
Sorry Is.
So I wrote this note.
You know it's like, of coursewe know this movie is about
grief, right, and among otherthings.
And I just you know I was like,okay, so Fantasia is humanity's
imagination, right, so it has,technically, should have no
boundaries.
That's why you can't pass it.

(01:14:45):
And that's brilliantly writtenand like the nothing is, you
know, the loss of the dreams andhopes that are manifested.
And then Gork, gamork isn't somuch evil as and so I'm
wrestling with this, so isGamork not so much evil as it is
?
Gamork is pain and suffering,that, and then decides to be

(01:15:09):
evil.
And what I mean by that is,like in the experiencing cause.
We know this from our life,just because we, you know it's
like it is sometimes in thatexperiencing of pain and
suffering and loss that we dounderstand what is actually true
.
And then you know, otherwisewe'll give over to the quote
opiate of our imagination, allthe good fluffy stuff, and be

(01:15:32):
lost in there forever and notdeal with the real things that
hurt.
But you know, and we'll be lostin a fantastic world of riddles
and in good intentions.
And then there's Gork andyou're like, what do I do with
this?
Like, is it evil, or is it justtaking the things that are real
to us pain and suffering anddoing evil things with it?

Speaker 2 (01:15:53):
Is that?
You know what I mean?
Yeah, I think there's a lot'sunpacked there, but I will say I
think of Mark as evil becausehe says he admits during his
monologue I'm here to that.
He's here to help the nothing.
I'm a servant.
I'm a servant of the nothingand I want to help it because I
want people to lose their youknow, lose their ambitions,
because they're easy to control.

(01:16:15):
So I think, there's many and,like you know, we can talk about
good and evil all day everyonecan.
But my thing when I think aboutevil is what I think is evil is
people who do shitty things fora profit.

Speaker 1 (01:16:26):
Yeah sure, and the profit in this case would be
power.
Yeah, and he says it.

Speaker 2 (01:16:31):
He says I want to help them because I want to be
able to control people who'velost their ambition.
So I think that's straight upevil, yeah all right, that was
my question.

Speaker 1 (01:16:40):
Is he an instrument of evil or is he evil?
And if that makes sense, well,these both.

Speaker 3 (01:16:44):
I think he's both.
Okay all right?

Speaker 1 (01:16:46):
Well, it's like cause on another episode for our
listeners.
If you want to listen to acuckoo's nest, we kind of we'd
talk about that briefly, aboutNurse Ratchet, the episode with
Tim.

Speaker 2 (01:16:56):
Murphy, tim Murphy.

Speaker 1 (01:16:58):
Yeah, yeah, so if you , haven't listened to that,
definitely go.
It's a really deep.
It's a dark episode cause it'scuckoo's nest, but also like who
she is, and but anyway, so Iwhat do you guys think this, or
maybe this is too big of aquestion?
What is this movie about?

Speaker 3 (01:17:21):
No, it's not too big of a question at all.
This, I think, this movie forme, is about, you know,
recognizing that feet on theground doesn't have to mean not
head in the sky.
You know what I mean that youcan be pragmatic while still
having imagination.
Imagination is the pathway tohealthy, happy, you know.
Yes, thank you.

Speaker 2 (01:17:40):
It's like you know, message to parents.
It's like okay, the kid's notdoing well in math.
Like, okay, like help him withhis math, but like he can also
draw unicorns.

Speaker 3 (01:17:48):
It's okay to draw unicorns, Right yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:17:50):
You know, he doesn't have to do one or the other, you
know.
He needs to pass his math test,but don't tell him not to draw
unicorns man.

Speaker 3 (01:17:56):
Right, exactly, yeah, what's?

Speaker 2 (01:17:58):
he's into what's he's into?
He's into drawing unicorns,that's it.

Speaker 1 (01:18:01):
Well, and I guess that kind of like floats along
with what I was thinking,because it is and I mentioned
it's a story of grief.
How do you process grief?
How do we process loss?
Because there's obvious, westart with loss at the beginning
of the movie and I think thatis the honoring of where we are,
or where someone is, especiallya child, in how they deal with
it.
So the father might be rightyes, you have to go to school,

(01:18:24):
that is important.
But yes, so are these unicorns.
They're just as important, youknow, and so are your dreams.
Oh, you had a dream about mom.
Let me stop making my orange,julius, and come sit down and be
with you for a minute.
That egg is gonna be, just asraw as it was when.

Speaker 2 (01:18:40):
I started Full circle .
We've come full circle, Fullcircle here.

Speaker 1 (01:18:45):
Yeah, so I don't know .
That just made me think aboutthat and I guess also too, do
you wanna ask what the questionyou?

Speaker 3 (01:18:52):
like to ask.
Yeah, we always get asked thequestions.
So I guess, for you guys, doesthe film hold up?
For you guys?

Speaker 2 (01:18:58):
So you know, I think it's a hard answer for me on
this one, because I think it'san incredibly impactful movie,
but you know what's yourdefinition of is?

Speaker 3 (01:19:13):
You know like.

Speaker 2 (01:19:13):
I always say, like, I like to think, a barometer of
like does it hold up?
Means to me, Like, if you showit to someone who doesn't have
nostalgia for it, you know, willit still be good.
And I think that's probably ano on this one.
Like you know, I don't know.
I would like to see, I wouldlove to hear, if a kid saw this
today, if they would becompletely in love with it.
I don't know if an adult whosees it today is who doesn't

(01:19:36):
know it, you know is going to bein love with it, like I am.
And it's gonna be thatmeaningful.
It's hard for me to say because, like I said throughout this
show, it's like so much of thismovie, even now when I'm
watching it.
The reason it's impactful isbecause I'm remembering how
impactful it was for me when Iwas a kid.
So I'm watching a lot of and I'mseeing a lot of the faults now,

(01:19:59):
as an adult, in it.
So does it hold up for me?
Absolutely 100%.
I watched it as a kid, I lovedit, and I watched it as a young
adult and again it blew my mind.
And I watch it now and it stillblew my mind in a lot of ways.
They're tied to nostalgia.
So it holds up for me.
I'm not sure if it really holdsup, you know.

Speaker 3 (01:20:20):
As a piece.
What about you?

Speaker 1 (01:20:22):
Matt.
Oh man, that was a lot to thinkabout and it's because it is
hard to like pull it away.
That's the whole point of whywe talk about the movies that we
love is the nostalgia.
The nostalgia holds up 100%.
I absolutely loved rewatchingthis.
It felt great, Every scene.
Like we said, I wanted it to bethree times as long.

(01:20:43):
The movie was over too soon.
I absolutely loved it.
So, on that end, yes, it holdsup.
Do the special effects hold up?
Most of them don't.
Is the puppetry great?
No, Is you know?
Are the characters?
real well fleshed out?
No, can I see all theinfluences of other authors and

(01:21:04):
storylines?
Yes, it's right on the surface.
Am I grossed out by Falcoursback?
Yes, that does not hold up, butI think as a whole for what it
means to be a nostalgic movie.

Speaker 3 (01:21:17):
Yes, I think you know I thought I was gonna have a
real hot take on this one.
But yeah, I mean it depends onwhen you watch this movie.
If you watch this movie whenyou're kid, it holds up for you
if you like it Me on this watchI don't think this movie really
holds up.
I think the other movies dosimilar things or they do the
same thing better.
The big, big, big win of thismovie is that end sequence, and

(01:21:38):
that does make it have redeemingvalue.
I just think there are moremagical journeys to go on
that'll give you a similar sortof experience.
So, for the first time ever,I'm gonna say like I think this
movie is good if you loved it,but I don't think it's one that
I will consider.
Well, you know, I don't thinkI'll consider it holding up for
me in the future.

Speaker 1 (01:21:58):
Yeah, I would love for if somebody knows of a movie
like it.
But I would love for someone togo back and actually kind of
redo this because of the end ofwhat you're saying, 100% there
is a great, great, great, greatmovie in here.
Yes.

Speaker 3 (01:22:14):
It's just.
I don't think this is thedefinitive version of it.

Speaker 2 (01:22:16):
I will say you know.
Part of this movie's charm andmagic, though is kind of how
it's imperfect.

Speaker 1 (01:22:23):
That you see the seams.

Speaker 2 (01:22:24):
And that it's brave in a way that it tried a bunch
of stuff.

Speaker 1 (01:22:26):
No, no, no, no, no, completely.
And it was the most expensivemovie in Germany's history.

Speaker 2 (01:22:31):
It was but you know what I mean.
It's not cookie cutter, it'sbold, it's inventive, it's
creative, it's imaginative.
It fucking swung for the fenceat all sorts of stuff.
Yes, and I think that's whereit lands in that in our
imaginations as kids you knowwhat I mean it was completely
successful.
But yeah, I mean it was weird,it was out there, and when you

(01:22:52):
get out there, it's like you'revery close to being either
genius or bad, and to that pointI would be hard pressed to say
I think otherwise.

Speaker 1 (01:23:02):
But I think every actor in this movie is in the
same movie.
Yeah, that's true, Like theyare in the same movie, and it's
amazing too, like especially.

Speaker 2 (01:23:10):
Crazy enough, since it's Fantasia.

Speaker 1 (01:23:12):
they're all different people from different worlds,
but somehow there is a cohesionin all of them that really holds
, and a Trey U, I mean a Trey Uand Bastion Bastion.

Speaker 2 (01:23:22):
Their performances.

Speaker 1 (01:23:24):
And the Empress.
I mean all their performances,those three specifically, of
course, just they are.

Speaker 2 (01:23:30):
I think those are the only three people in the movie.

Speaker 1 (01:23:31):
Yeah, but yeah, so I just love it.
I can't wait for.
I can't wait for someone tofind it and do it again, but if
it can be done, I thought youwere gonna say you can't wait
for part two or three.
I can't wait for part three.
Let's go to part three,everybody.

Speaker 3 (01:23:50):
Oh, man, james, always great to have you man.
Yeah, man, thank you guys verymuch for being here.

Speaker 1 (01:23:55):
Yeah, I love it.
Let's go on a sea movie.
Let's go on a sea movie, let'sgo on a sea movie.

Speaker 3 (01:24:05):

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The NeverEnding Story | with guest James Allerdyce (HERD, Buke & Gase, Top Photographer)

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}The NeverEnding Story | with guest James Allerdyce (HERD, Buke & Gase, Top Photographer)