December 3, 2025 • 45 mins
Happy Planet Wednesday!
If you've ever drawn inspiration from nature, this is the podcast for you.
Our guest this week is Sidney Rostan, a Paris-based entrepreneur and biomimicry expert. If you remember from one of our first podcasts, biomimicry is the design and production of solutions that are modeled on biological entities and processes.
Sidney's engineering firm, BIOXEGY, proposes industrial engineering solutions that are uniquely designed to mimic nature. He says solutions modeled after nature have many advantages, including better sustainability, and the benefit of thousands of years of nature's fine-tuning.
To listen, tune into Happy Planet on Apple , Spotify, our website, or pretty much anywhere you listen to podcasts.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Abigail (00:05):
Welcome to the podcast where we celebrate innovation
for a happy planet.
I am your host, Abigail Carroll.
If you've ever drawn inspirationfrom nature, this is the podcast
for you.
We're gonna talk aboutbiomimicry, a method of
innovation that finds itssolutions in nature.
Our guest this week is SydneyRoston, a Paris based
(00:25):
entrepreneur and bi biomimicryexpert who has built his company
Biog by exclusively offeringinnovative industrial
engineering solutions that aredesigned to mimic nature.
He says, solutions modeled afternature have many advantages, but
let's hear it from Sydney.
(00:48):
Welcome to the podcast, Sydnee.
Sidney (00:50):
Yes.
Thanks Abigail for having me.
Abigail (00:53):
I am delighted to have you here.
Your interest in biomimicry isvery dear to my heart.
It's a subject that I just findfascinating.
So let's start at the beginning.
What is biomimicry?
Sidney (01:06):
Well, biomimicry is a research and development.
Approach.
It's kind of a methodology thatconsists in drawing inspiration
from nature's most ingeniousdesigns.
So when we talk about nature'singenious designs, you can have
intelligent materials, compositematerials, you can have chemical
processes.
We are talking about functions.
(01:26):
We are also talking sometimesabout behavioral aspects.
So it is all of biomimicryconsists of drawing.
Inspiration from all of this, Iwould say biological knowhow.
This, that has been around formillions of years in most cases.
And so the idea behindbiomimicry is of course, to use
(01:47):
as much as possible this kind ofintelligence and the fact that
it is optimized.
And then also use the fact that.
Nature most of the time is verysustainable.
I would say even all of thetime, sustainable, circular, low
footprint in terms of en energymaterials, et cetera.
So biomimicry is all of that.
(02:09):
At first it was kind of aphilosophy, I would say.
When you look at inventors, evenI would say hundreds of years
ago getting inspiration fromnature was kind of something
that was.
I would say kind of a habit whenit comes to geometry forms.
Sometimes also behavioralaspects that were easy to copy
(02:31):
and to mimic.
Think of course of firstairplane dis airplane designer
designers.
It was kind of obvious to go seeinspiration in birds and and fly
and fireflies.
Sex, et cetera.
That, that there is kind of, thelink is easy to make.
But over time, over the lastdecades, I would say for the
last 50 years, it hasprogressively become something
(02:55):
very specific.
We are talking about high hand rand d most of the time.
So it's sophisticated is also.
Indirect links.
So it's not just about forms andgeometries, it's about, yeah, as
I said, chemicals, materials,composite materials something
that is sometimes at the nanoscale or micro scale.
So biomimicry has evolved fromsomething that was a philosophy
(03:19):
and a mindset at the beginningto an r and d discipline and
expertise that is very specificnow.
Abigail (03:26):
Wow.
Very interesting.
So you use that in your companyby gy?
Sidney (03:32):
Yes Biji is one of the European experts in biomimicry.
Actually, biomimicry is so muchniche that we can, we could also
say that we are one of theinternational experts and our
role is to develop bio-inspiredtechnologies.
May it be for clients or forourselves?
So we actually I would say ourcore job is to work together
(03:56):
with industrial companies in theautomotive domain, chemical
domain.
It can be in the constructionindustry, it can be in the
luxury or consumer goodsindustry.
So industrial players that dohave challenges most of the time
we interact with r and ddepartments or innovation
depart.
They submit these challenges andour job, it, it may seem odd,
(04:17):
but that's what RY is all about,is looking into nature to see
how nature solve this specificchallenge.
And then being able to do kindof a biotic retro engineering
that consisting going from thebiological model that we have
investigated and identified.
To a bio-inspired technology.
(04:37):
So that's our job.
Of course, most of the time it'sB2B, so business to business and
sometimes it's also our own teamthat creates a technology and
that then patent a technology.
It, it really depends.
But our core job is B2B.
Abigail (04:52):
So it's so interesting to me that you know the
direction of the information.
You start with this problem, andthen you have the whole universe
to look into.
How do you, narrow that searchdown?
Sidney (05:06):
Yeah, it's actually, it's a struggle.
Yeah.
You know?
At first we had to investigate alot.
That means hours and hours, Iwould say even months and months
of work, investigative work youknow, going through huge amounts
of biological models.
That can put us biologicalpapers.
So you know, scientistseverywhere over the world in
(05:28):
Guatemala, in in Costa Rica, inEgypt, in in in Italy all over
the world.
So bio biologists that describenature.
And of course they publish bio,bio biological papers.
So scientifical papers thatdescribe.
Biological system you know,animals, plants, et cetera, et
(05:48):
cetera.
And our job is basically to beable to identify that.
We still do that today.
So there is a lot of work behindthat, but over the years, it has
become simpler for our teams.
Why?
Because we have gatheredexpertise.
We have gathered experience,which means that when we come
across a challenge that issubmitted by our partner.
(06:10):
Let's say for example, a, aclient that says, okay, I, I
want to be able to dissipateheat in a more efficient way for
my battery pack that has thetendency to overheat.
So how can I dissipate heat in amore efficient way?
Over time we've came across thechallenge so much, and so
frequently that we havegathered.
(06:33):
Enough experience not to avoidlooking into each biological
paper and, and doing month ofwork more.
Nowadays it's simpler for biog.
We know where and how naturedissipate dissipates seed.
So we, we do have kind of adatabase that is.
Easier for us to to go lookingin to, to make this kind of
(06:56):
investigative work.
Of course, this does not meanthat we do not have
investigative work anymore.
We, we still contact biologists.
We still go through loads ofscientific literature in order
to find the good biologicalmodels and good animals, good,
good plants, et cetera.
The right species that has theright.
System and the right property inorder to be able to, to address
(07:19):
the challenge.
But I would say it's easiernowadays, eight years on we've
gathered experience, so we haveefficient databases.
Abigail (07:27):
So when you find some, a solution in nature that looks
like it might work.
There's some translation alongthe way.
How do you look at somethingthat's happening either in an
animal or in a plant, and kindof translate that into, you
know, sort of engineering,mechanical engineering.
Sidney (07:46):
Exactly, that's what we, that's what we call retro
engineering.
So biometric, retro engineering,being able so it, it's not easy.
And most of the time that's, Iwould say one of the historical
limits of, of biomimicry isthat, there was kind of an
observation in nature one way wethought, wow, that's crazy.
(08:06):
Interesting.
Sophisticated.
It's really interesting.
Yes.
But the problem is it needs tocome, it, it needs to, you know
the, the output needs to betechnology that is fees.
There's this cost effective thatcan be applied to industrial
platform or industrialproduction process.
(08:26):
It needs to answer market needsand sometimes also, of course,
regulative needs and regulateregulations.
We, we need to respect them aswell.
So this means that I would saypart and, and the, the bigger,
the biggest part of being amatician.
That's why we, that's how wecall a bio-inspired engineer.
(08:47):
At Biog is being able not onlyto identify the biological
model, but be being able toreproduce and copy in a feasible
way.
So of course it's all a questionof material that are used of the
implication in terms offeasibility.
So feasibility, investigativework in order to understand
well, okay some molecules,proteins.
(09:10):
Some taxations some structuralarchitectures, optical layers,
coatings that you do observe innature are built in a certain
way by the growth of the plant,the growth of an animal or by
you know organical, organical,maintenance.
So molecules that indirecttogether then that, that can be
(09:32):
repaired, for example, overtime, et cetera.
So this happens in nature, butonce we observe that in nature,
we are not typically and, andsystematically able to reproduce
that with the same materials forindustrial purposes.
That that does not happen thisway.
So for example, if you seetaxation, let me give you one
example.
If you see.
(09:53):
Taxation in nature, for example,that avoid reflection on a
surface.
So it can be interesting for itcan be interesting for several
purposes in the, in theindustry.
It can be for the opticalindustry.
It can be interesting also forthe consumer goods industry.
So how do you avoid reflections?
Well, what happens in nature istaxation.
(10:14):
Yeah.
And taxation.
Is, as I said, the growth ofthe, of the animal or, or
itself.
So it happens over time over,over, over months or over days.
But transpose it to somethingthat needs to be produced a
hundred fold thousands fold per,per minute or per day for the
consumer goods industry.
And you'll find that this textduration, it doesn't need, it
(10:36):
can't be grown.
It needs to be produced, forexample, with.
Laser taxation or specificmolding that have cost
implications that arecomfortable with the industry or
the, the sector we are workingwith.
So part of our job is tounderstand this transposition
being able to do this retroengineering.
And again, it's also a questionof experience.
(10:58):
Over time we've came tounderstand how we can transpose
specific systems to inindustrial use cases.
This question is complex becausethere are as many answers
possible as there are sectorsand use cases possible.
I would say that the good newsis that our success rate is
around 70% and being able totransform a biological model 70%
(11:24):
of the time into something thatis viable.
Industrially speaking is.
Is, is a good first step, and Iwould say is a successful is
successful enough and reassuringenough for clients to test
biomimicry and say, okay, thisis credible and I want to work
with BioCity.
But sometimes I won't lie aboutit.
(11:46):
Sometimes it's harsh, so.
It is also being able tocorrectly anticipate the topic
that you're addressing.
So actually this is kind of ahuge learning for biog and for
every engineer that works atbiog.
Is that before you know,launching our ourself.
Into a bio-inspired projectwhere we say, okay, biomimicry
(12:09):
is it's versatile.
It can dress every type ofsituation, et cetera.
Yes, on a theoretical point ofview, it could, but nowadays we.
Put a lot of efforts beforelaunching a project to discuss
the topics at hand with ourpartners.
And so what happens most of thetime is that we actually ask
them for a list of topics.
(12:31):
So topics where they think theyhave.
Problems, challenges.
So it can be pain points, can beincremental topics.
It can also be disruptivetopics, but we ask them for a
list.
And out of this list we, weselect the topics where we think
we have the best chances ofsuccess.
Not only because Bio Creek canactually bring an added value
(12:54):
compared to conventionalengineering, but also because
Byman McCree has good chancesof.
I mean, the technology can befeasible at the end.
So it's the experience that istalking there.
And I think that is somethingthat is really appreciated by
our prospects and by ourclients.
Abigail (13:11):
Can you just elaborate a little bit on that?
What are the advantages?
Like if a client has a problemto fix and that's on a, you
know, part of that list that youreally feel like you've got some
insight on, and it can relate tothis nature's functioning.
How might your solution differfrom a classical engineering
(14:02):
solution and how is that, how isthe client appreciative of that?
Sidney (14:07):
I would say that, first of all, when it comes to solving
pain points, imagine for examplein Europe, I, I'm not sure if
it's if it's the case in the us,but I would imagine it, it will
at some point also be a bigtopic is how do you prevent, for
example, eternal polls, you knowPFAS, it's called PFAS in
France.
I think it's the internationalword for that.
(14:29):
So, yeah, same in the states.
So PFAS, how do you avoid that?
So, most industrial data, it's,it's used in, in a lot of
different sectors.
Will have explored many ways to,solve a specific function thanks
to PFAS.
But once you come across a painpoint where you have tested many
coatings, many surface dation,many types of materials,
(14:52):
chemicals, polymers, et cetera,et cetera you are in such, you
know, in such difficulty that itis actually interesting to find
an alternative and say, okay,this specific function that I
have solved over decades agowith PFAS I want to understand
how nature solved this specificchallenge.
(15:13):
And that's where biomimicry inHandy is.
Okay.
Finding a similar function, butseeing how this similar function
is actually done or actuallyaddressed in nature.
That's the first added value Iwould say when it comes to
incremental innovation.
Let's say we have a partner thatwants to reduce the vibration in
(15:35):
a.
Electric car.
So electric cars is, are, arecreate new problems of
vibrations.
So noise, vibration, acousticchallenges.
So how can I reduce the parasparasitic noise that are created
by auto electric vehicles orelectric motors and platforms.
Doing incremental innovation interms of RY means that you want
(15:57):
to understand how, how hasnature optimized a specific
function?
For example, reducing noise withcomposite materials specific
foam structures, specificinterfaces, et cetera, et
cetera.
So you.
Benefit from the optimized wayBiomimicry has been, nature has
(16:19):
been evolving over years andyears and years.
So the added value, the wholepurpose of doing biomimicry is
getting the chance to look atsomething.
That has been around formillions of years, or for at
least thousands and thousands ofyears.
So basically what you benefitfrom is kind of the biological
selection process we are talkingabout you know trial and error
(16:43):
for, for years and years and
Abigail (16:45):
not the beta.
Sidney (16:47):
So, yeah.
Yeah.
Not the better, better version.
So this means that you actuallycan achieve performance, you can
achieve sustainability dependingon the topic that you have.
Sometimes it's lightweightdesign.
Sometimes it's.
Noise absorption.
Sometimes it can be.
Yeah, as I said, reducingreflectance.
When we talk about opticalsystem I talked also about
(17:10):
dissipating heat.
Exchanging heat isolation.
You have many, many differentuse cases.
So looking into nature meanslooking into optimized and
enhanced system.
And last, if you look atdisruptive innovation, it can,
so when you.
Basically try to completely overover ramp or overhaul.
(17:32):
I don't remember the, theEnglish word for that.
So completely rethink of atechnology.
A specific technology is done.
So when you want to do somethingvery disruptive, very new.
Doing bio Mac Creek can alsomean being very ideated.
It creates new ideas, createsnew new concepts.
It can be interesting.
Let me give you one example.
(17:52):
If you, if you want, forexample, to reshape and rethink
of the way you, you design, forexample, a lending gear.
For an, for an aircraft.
So lending gears are always thesame system dampeners braking
system of course the wheels, etcetera, et cetera.
You could do two, two thingswith biomimicry.
(18:12):
First thing, it's good doing.
Incremental innovation, as Isaid.
So for example, how do I reducethe weight by 10% or by 15%?
And you look into naturalstructures that are very
interesting when it comes tofinding the right ratio between
weight and resistance,resistance to compression
forces, distortion forces, etcetera.
(18:33):
So you could do incrementalinnovation with nature.
And you look into bone design,you look into specific
composites in tree structures,et cetera.
So you'll find a lot ofinteresting models when it comes
to lightweight design.
So that's for the incrementalpart.
But when it comes for thedisruptive part, you could also
perfectly ask the question if itis your intention.
(18:55):
Well, I don't just want toreduce the weight of the lending
gear by 10%.
My interest is what does thelending gear look like?
In 10 years or 15 years time, Iwant to completely revamp my, my
system.
I want to, to have somethingthat is completely new and
breakthrough, and then biomecrew useful because you can ask
(19:16):
the question, which is, which isideated, at least at first,
which is how does nature land?
How does nature jump?
How does nature stabilizeitself, itself, for example, in
wrecked terrain?
You know, you understand, and,and so you can do creative
things with nature.
So does this answer yourquestion, Abigail?
Abigail (19:36):
Yeah, it's, it's wonderful.
So, do you have a favoriteinspiration in nature?
Is there something in naturethat's just kind of blown your
mind?
Like a favorite, I dunno, plantor animal that does something
just really outrageous that youcould to share with us?
Sidney (19:52):
I mean, I could give an example of a project we had
because it's one of my favoriteones and I think it's a
beautiful project.
Abigail (20:00):
Yep.
Sidney (20:01):
A couple of years ago, it was actually two and a half
years ago there was one of ourclients in the construction
industry.
So we are not talking aboutaerospace, we're not talking
about automotive, et cetera,which are the fields where Ry
is, is used.
We're talking about constructionindustry.
They came and they asked us,okay we want to find an
(20:23):
alternative.
To quick lime.
Quick Lime is a chemical andhelps agglomerates soil
particles for constructionindustry.
So our client was using quicklime in order to stabilize.
The soil and the terrain wherethen they build.
Then there the construction, youhave to stabilize the field, the
(20:47):
soil, you have to have it verycompact, mechanically stable,
and also chemically stable.
You don't want to, you don'twant to, you field or your
terrain to erode.
If they are, for example, heavyrains and in order to do so they
use quick line.
And so quick line is perfect onthe paper.
(21:08):
It creates mechanical stability.
It creates chemical stability,is fast reaction.
It's a great chemical and it'sthe costs are reasonable.
But the problem with quick,quick line is, the quick line is
that quick line is ours isactually very carbon intensive.
One ton of quick line means oneton of CO2 that is used.
(21:31):
And so if, for example, our linewas using maybe remember for 50
or 60 thousands, tons of quickline each year, it means a huge
carbon footprint.
And in Europe it's a problem.
It's a real problem, but notonly is it a problem in terms of
carbon footprint, it wasbecoming a problem in terms of
(21:52):
economical balance problem thatis that quick lime because of
energy instability energy, costinstability in Europe was
beginning to be very, very, veryexpensive.
So they asked us to find analternative.
We went to look into nature in,insects that are very good in
(22:13):
building so.
I would say architecturalgeniuses.
And we ended up looking intotermites.
We perfectly know that termitesare good architects because they
create interesting structuresthat are already already used in
architecture for ventilationpurposes, et cetera, et cetera.
(22:33):
But actually what got into our,in our, what got our interest is
that termites creates.
Mounts.
So they create their homes,things to local soil, agile that
they're using, but alsobiopolymers that exist.
So fibers of plants, leaves, etcetera, that are found locally.
(22:56):
So they agglomerate all of.
In order to create the hugemounts, six meters high, maybe
15, 20 meters also underground.
So this whole thing ismechanically stable, but it's
also chemically stable.
You can have.
Rain heavy rains on the to moonsmounds, and it would, it, it
(23:16):
won't crumble.
So it's very, very compact andvery rigid and very mechanically
stable.
So we looked in decipher to,well, how does the tur do that?
What, what's, what's thechemical secret behind that?
And we actually.
Found out that termites wereusing their saliva to do so, and
(23:36):
more specifically, within theirsaliva.
There were parts of chemicalcompounds and thematic compounds
that are used in order to dothis kind of chemical reaction
and happens fast.
So their aglo, aglo theirchemical that agglomerates the
soil.
Is within their saliva.
(23:57):
By understanding the suffering,all of that, we were able to
understand that we couldactually reproduce that in this
in a synthetic way.
So actually, the goal is not tohave.
You know, forms of termiteswhere we actually, you know,
farm their saliva.
It's not the, it's not theobjective.
(24:18):
Our objective was to createsomething that was industrially
feasible.
And there you go again.
How do I make this happen on alarge scale?
And so we synthesized what wefound, the compounds that we
found in the sali in the term ofthe sali in the saliva term.
Sorry.
In the termite saliva, we wereable to do that and synthesize
(24:40):
that on a industrial scale.
We brought the cost down.
We completely reduced the, thewe, we hugely reduced the CO2
footprint.
I think it was by 70%.
We were then able also to usethat on the industrial scale.
So test it actually, not only inthe labs as a proof of concept,
(25:01):
but then as well on the field.
So this means that thistechnology, this bio-inspired
chemical that replaces quicklime, it's a agglomerating
chemical is actually used inFrance.
On the fields.
We have pilots testing fields,and it actually behaves the way
(25:22):
we wanted it to be.
So it wa it is a, a greatproject and that's one of my
most favorite ones because notonly does it prove that well of
course re is useful, but itproves as well that re is useful
in terms of chemicals.
And for the constructionindustry, which is a.
Cost conscious industry becauseit has low margins.
(25:45):
And of course the termites are,you know, very interesting
insects.
And it also shows that Biore isnot only useful for in terms of
economics, you know,performance.
So bringing the cost down butalso in terms of CO2 footprint.
And let me tell you that ourclients will win bidding
contests.
(26:06):
For construction sites becausethey have something that is less
expensive and that is less CO2emitting.
So they will have a hugecompetitive advantage within
their industry.
So I think that's one of myfavorite one.
And, and the termite also is a,is a nice favorite of of mine.
(26:26):
I do also like butterflies andand dragonflies.
Because I think that there arevery, well very efficient
predators.
They have a lot of equipment.
If you look at the dragonfly, adragonfly is, has a very
sophistic, a very sophisticatedvision system.
They can look all around theyhave fast for, fast vision
(26:48):
system so they can see in slowmotion.
They have an efficient visionsystem so they can.
Track their prey without usingtoo much energy for the, for
their vision system and for theyou know, the, the computing
system, which are, which isactually the brain.
So they're very efficient interms of image processing, which
could be interesting foralgorithms, for example,
(27:10):
autonomous algorithm.
They also obviously have veryefficient flying systems.
So we are talking about a veryadvanced aerodynamics.
They can fly backwards.
They can fly on, on, and theycan stay on the same place.
They can fly fast forward.
They can also have a lot ofacceleration, deceleration.
(27:30):
And of course after that it'salso interesting to note that
they have lightweight design ontheir rings.
Their wings are bothlightweight, very resistant, but
also transparent.
And their wings aresophisticated enough to be able
also to prevent bio fooling,which is the growth of bacteria
on the wings.
Because they live in very humidenvironments.
(27:51):
So dragonflies are very verywell known predators.
Their success rate is 98%.
So I think it's a fascinatinginsects.
And we've had at least half adozen project that where, where
we had use cases getting andtechnologies inspired by parts
of the, of the dragonfly.
So it's one of my favorites.
Abigail (28:13):
I love it.
Your passion is just so clear.
How did you get going in this?
What?
Where did you discover that thiswould be your calling?
Sidney (28:22):
Yes.
So I'm a, I'm a business schoolgraduate, so I'm actually, I'm
not an engineer and I'm not abiologist.
Whereas most of my team is butit's not my
Abigail (28:32):
Oh, good thing.
Sidney (28:33):
And so I hadn't heard of biomimicry before.
And I started my career in theautomotive industry in Germany
because I'm half German.
So I started working at Audi andat Porsche aga.
And, germans used to work onbiomimicry.
They called it bionics.
Mostly for mechatronic properpurposes, but also for
(28:56):
lightweight design.
And I heard of it, I heard ofbiomimicry and was a kind, oh,
this is, this is interesting.
And I was at this, at the stagewhere I thought I, I wanted.
To explore new ways ofinnovative innovation.
I wasn't sure if I wanted tobecome an entrepreneur but I
wanted to be free and envi very,very dynamic environments.
(29:20):
And of course I wanted my job tomake purpose, to have a purpose.
So I wanted something that couldcreate new technologies, but.
Technologies that, that weresustainable, that were circular
or at least that could make adifference somehow.
And so when I came across, so itwas.
Practically 10 years ago when Icome, came across biomimicry, I
(29:42):
immediately became passionatefor the reason that you can feel
is that it's, it's, it's somagical and it's kind of an
obvious idea to say, well,nature has had treatment eight
billions, years of evolution.
So it's, it's, it's it's aenhanced r and d laboratory and
the ideas.
Eent, it's sorry.
It's it's subtle.
(30:03):
I like the idea.
And of course juggling betweenbiology and engineering was also
very attractive.
So I became passionate aroundthat.
But fact is that, after a coupleof weeks of me, you know,
reading books around biomimicrylooking at TEDx conferences and,
(30:23):
and yeah, and, and, and everystuff that you could find
online.
The fact was that, okay, biomecrew is interesting, but how
come I don't hear so muchsuccess stories?
You can find some successstories, but it's always the
same.
And I thought, well, this iskind of odd.
(30:45):
How come that, how come that RYis not used on more?
Democratized way and our mo moremassive way.
You know, we hear aboutartificial intelligence, we hear
about quantum computing.
So we hear about new frontiersof innovation.
All of all of the day, but notthat much biomimicry, although
(31:05):
more so 10 years ago.
And so I quickly understood thatbiomimicry has been around for
some decades in hop uphillscience.
So for example, in the US we aretalking about Northrop Goman
Lockhead margin.
And so a company in theaerospace industry working with.
Uphill science.
(31:26):
So Harvard, MIT Stanford,Caltech, Virginia Tech, et
cetera.
So uphill science, aerospaceindustry and, and, and, and
projects that takes years toevolve.
So, of course you would findpatents and actually the
dynamics about bio-inspiredtechnology being pa patented is
growing.
(31:46):
So there is kind of a fastmoving dynamics here, but.
What I observed is that may itbe in the United States or in
Europe or in Asia.
It is difficult to find a lot ofsuccess stories and the
transmission between uphillscience and downhill corporate
(32:06):
research and development andthen products is difficult to
make.
For biomimicry.
And so I thought to myself,well, it could be interesting to
create a company that would bean expert in that.
I must say that of course it waskind of a moonshot.
But I was in my early twenties.
I had nothing to lose and so Ithought, well, maybe it's the
(32:30):
time for me to build a dreamcompany.
And so at, at first I was likealone on that.
And again, I'm not an engineer,so my objective was to create
kind of a consulting firm for atleast a year, and then after a
year being able to transform itinto an engineering company.
And so that's exactly how itwent down in 2017.
(32:53):
I 2018, sorry.
So it, it will be eight yearsago in a couple of months I
created biog and I went lookfor, for first clients, telling
them, okay.
Guys, hello.
This is Biome Cree.
This is how Biomimicry could beuseful.
Let's do some workshops.
And so the first ones were like,okay, this guy is crazy.
(33:15):
But he's passionate, papassionate.
He, he, he is, selling the idea,well, why not test the workshop
for maybe a thousand euro or2000 euros, you know?
And so also I think day two hadnothing to lose in testing that.
And I think it went well.
The first workshops were the,my, my first client was in the
(33:37):
automotive domain.
And, and the first workshop wereconclusive enough so that they
you know, asked me to, to, topursue the projects and tell me,
okay.
The idea of Biore is, isinteresting.
We understand how Biore could beuseful for our use cases.
And I was expert enough to haveinvestigative work on my own,
(33:57):
even if, if I was not anengineer.
And then they asked me after theworkshop, so what now?
And this, what now was the prewhat was the, I think the kind
of the signal to, to say, okay.
This is great.
The idea that had to create aconsulting company that then
evolves to an engineeringcompany actually works because
(34:18):
then the need is there.
They say, okay, what now?
Now we want to develop theconcept.
Then we hand we want to have aproof of concept, and then we
(35:02):
have, we want to develop thetechnology and go through the,
all the, the, the technologymaturity levels.
And so.
At this stage I told them, okay,if you want it to happen you
have to pay me part of theproject.
When we start the project andwhen we sign the project.
And with this money, I was ableto recruit the first engineers
(35:23):
and then over time.
Gather and hire a, a, a a teamof engineers that have
experienced enough.
And so that's yeah, that's theentrepreneurial story.
That has been yeah, that hasbeen mine for the last eight
years.
Abigail (35:38):
So how many, how many folks do you have in your firm
today?
Sidney (35:41):
are 30 people strong.
So I would say it's not astartup anymore.
It's kind of a more of a scaleup company or mid-sized company.
And yeah, and and recruiting newgo, new ones.
Yeah, that's the, and, and overtime we've.
We've worked with Frenchcompanies.
So I went back to France tocreate my company because I
thought that the startupatmosphere, that startup mindset
(36:04):
in France was interesting andwas favorable.
I think it was the goodconditions.
You have a lot of subsidiariesyou have a lot of help from the
states, et cetera.
So it was kind of a goodecosystem to create a company,
to create a startup.
And I created the company.
We had the, our first Frenchclients.
(36:24):
Now we have clients in Germany,in Switzerland, in Belgium, in
Austria.
We even have clients in, inJapan.
We have our first clients alsoin the United States.
We have them in Italy.
So the growing, the company isgrowing international.
And that's, I think that's agood sign.
I, I'm, I'm very proud of that.
Abigail (36:45):
So did you ever have to raise money?
I mean, you've got this startup,it's doing well, it's growing.
It it, because you're in aconsulting firm, it was just
sort of slow growth and you ownyour own company.
That's
Sidney (36:55):
Exactly the, the consulting business means I ha I
could do kind of a bootstrap ororganic growth logic.
So I don't have investors.
But in the future we'll haveother business models.
So as I said we are alsocreating our new technologies,
which mean that one day or theother will have to have
(37:15):
investors in on onboard.
But maybe on a branch of Biogen,not the, the, not the job and
the and the general businessmodel that we've had over the
years.
Abigail (37:26):
And is that how you see the balance going?
Is it more interesting to build,build products?
Is that the idea?
Or do you really wanna stay inthe world of consulting?
Sidney (37:35):
No, I mean we'll keep our consulting business.
We team, we'll keep ourengineering office.
Consulting business because it'sthe core I would say backbone of
our company, which helps usunderstand the tendencies that,
that each sector faces.
This so it's, it's known in, inFrance.
(37:58):
So I, I had a lunch with aclient of ours in the perfume
industry.
Abigail (38:04):
Mm.
Sidney (38:04):
And it's interesting for us to gather the types of topics
challenges, pain points thathave, so we'll definitely keep
the engineering and consultingbusiness.
Abigail (38:14):
how you're learning.
Sidney (38:15):
Yeah.
That's how we learn.
But it is for us, interesting tocreate and develop, even if it's
more cash intensive, our owntechnologies over time, because
we have, we, we, we don't.
I, I mean, at at least we are alittle bit more autonomous,
which means that we don't haveto justify to a client his own
(38:40):
boss.
And the boss of the boss thatneeds to validate a budget.
The, you know, the soundprooftechnology that we want to
create, you know we think thatit's all the questions of being
able to try to dare and not tobe too hesitating about a a an
innovation or a technology.
(39:01):
And so most of the time in theconsulting business your own
ability to innovate and tocreate new technology really
depends.
The willingness and risk takingstrategy of your own client.
And so in order to be more free,in order to have the ability to
be audacious, to be you know, toto, to have great ideas and to
(39:25):
be a little bit more risky inour approach, we, we just need
to create our own technologies.
So barge can and already does,invest a little bit of money.
Some of these technologies thatwe then will resell in terms of
we will resell patents orlicensing rights to patents or
(39:45):
even create some of our ownproducts.
So we have already have projectsongoing on that.
But if we, for, for some ofthese technologies, there are so
much ambitious that we will needto to, to raise funds for that,
to raise money for that.
Abigail (40:00):
yep.
Okay.
Well, good to know.
So do you have advice for otherentrepreneurs that are, that are
environmentally thoughtful,looking at nature kind of
businesses.
Sidney (40:13):
Yes, I, I think that what creates a, a successful
business is being able to keepthings pragmatic in the nature
business, in the environmentalbusiness.
Most of the entrepreneurs,especially young ones that I,
sea or meat have huge ideas.
(40:36):
They are really ideologicallydriven, which is perfectly
understandable and which is finebecause you need I ideology and
you need passion and you needdreams in order to be an
entrepreneur and to be able tochange things because you will
have.
Front wind and not a tailwind,You will, you won't have always
(40:58):
tailwind.
You will have wind in that comein your face and that creates
obstacles.
So.
It is good to have ideology, butkeep in mind, and that would be
my advice, always keep in mindto have to be cool headed enough
and pragmatic enough tounderstand that what makes a
successful business is at theend.
(41:21):
Is there a return on investmentfor your client?
And the re return on investmentcould be monetary, of course, it
could be marketing, it could be.
Regulations.
You can have different types ofreturn on investment, but if the
return on investment is notthere, you won't convince
(41:41):
anybody.
So I would say, I would say myadvice and I lived through that,
is staying pragmatic.
Even if you're trying to sellsustainable technologies,
sustainable concepts, it will.
Function only if there is asolid business model, a solid
(42:02):
product, and a solid you know,money strategy behind that for
you and for your clients, andfor your partners and for your
investors.
Abigail (42:11):
Hmm.
Amen to that.
Sidney (42:13):
Yeah.
Abigail (42:15):
All right.
Well, I ask everybody this oneparting question.
Are you optimistic, I mean, wetalked to all these
entrepreneurs that are doingthings that have positive
impacts on the, on the planet.
Are you, feeling optimisticabout the planet and where we're
headed with today?
Sidney (42:34):
I am optimistic in a sense that I.
Over time, things will get inorder and will be in urgent
situation enough to findsolution and to implement these
solutions.
I'm optimistic enough for that.
(42:56):
So I'm optimistic in a, thathuman, I don't think that
humanity will destroy itself andthat one day are the o are the
other.
We will be in, in dire situationenough to create technologies
and to be able to react.
And most of the time that's howthe human species is has worked.
(43:19):
We are bad at anticipating,actually.
I think we are more I thinkfitted to react, which is kind
of a biological way of things.
It's you only react to somethingthat is palpable, near
understandable.
That can be felt.
It's difficult to anticipate.
On that part, I meant I'menthusiastic and optimistic
enough to think that we willfind solution at the end and we
(43:42):
will overcome all the challengesthat are around sustainable
around climates aroundpollution, et cetera, et cetera.
Where I'm a bit more pessimisticis that I don't think it will
happen without huge losses.
Abigail (43:57):
Hmm.
Sidney (43:58):
And I think that we will see dire times, difficult times
where they will be losses oflife, losses of continuous
losses of bio biodiversity warsand conflict.
And also yeah, maybe famine.
And yeah, I, I think there willbe di difficult situations and
(44:19):
I.
I think it's not beingpessimistic.
I think it's more beingrealistic.
If you look at the studies, ifyou look at the trajectories, if
you look at any types of youknow, experts experts papers
they all describe the same.
Hard times to come.
So it's, it's it's not beingpessimistic to think that this
(44:42):
will happen.
It's just being realistic, beingoptimistic is saying, okay, even
this, if this happens, even the,the, all the hardships will
create solutions.
That's the way I see the future.
Welcome to the podcast where we celebrate innovation
for a happy planet.
I am your host, Abigail Carroll.
If you've ever drawn inspirationfrom nature, this is the podcast
for you.
We're gonna talk aboutbiomimicry, a method of
innovation that finds itssolutions in nature.
Our guest this week is SydneyRoston, a Paris based
(00:25):
entrepreneur and bi biomimicryexpert who has built his company
Biog by exclusively offeringinnovative industrial
engineering solutions that aredesigned to mimic nature.
He says, solutions modeled afternature have many advantages, but
let's hear it from Sydney.
(00:48):
Welcome to the podcast, Sydnee.
Sidney (00:50):
Yes.
Thanks Abigail for having me.
Abigail (00:53):
I am delighted to have you here.
Your interest in biomimicry isvery dear to my heart.
It's a subject that I just findfascinating.
So let's start at the beginning.
What is biomimicry?
Sidney (01:06):
Well, biomimicry is a research and development.
Approach.
It's kind of a methodology thatconsists in drawing inspiration
from nature's most ingeniousdesigns.
So when we talk about nature'singenious designs, you can have
intelligent materials, compositematerials, you can have chemical
processes.
We are talking about functions.
(01:26):
We are also talking sometimesabout behavioral aspects.
So it is all of biomimicryconsists of drawing.
Inspiration from all of this, Iwould say biological knowhow.
This, that has been around formillions of years in most cases.
And so the idea behindbiomimicry is of course, to use
(01:47):
as much as possible this kind ofintelligence and the fact that
it is optimized.
And then also use the fact that.
Nature most of the time is verysustainable.
I would say even all of thetime, sustainable, circular, low
footprint in terms of en energymaterials, et cetera.
So biomimicry is all of that.
(02:09):
At first it was kind of aphilosophy, I would say.
When you look at inventors, evenI would say hundreds of years
ago getting inspiration fromnature was kind of something
that was.
I would say kind of a habit whenit comes to geometry forms.
Sometimes also behavioralaspects that were easy to copy
(02:31):
and to mimic.
Think of course of firstairplane dis airplane designer
designers.
It was kind of obvious to go seeinspiration in birds and and fly
and fireflies.
Sex, et cetera.
That, that there is kind of, thelink is easy to make.
But over time, over the lastdecades, I would say for the
last 50 years, it hasprogressively become something
(02:55):
very specific.
We are talking about high hand rand d most of the time.
So it's sophisticated is also.
Indirect links.
So it's not just about forms andgeometries, it's about, yeah, as
I said, chemicals, materials,composite materials something
that is sometimes at the nanoscale or micro scale.
So biomimicry has evolved fromsomething that was a philosophy
(03:19):
and a mindset at the beginningto an r and d discipline and
expertise that is very specificnow.
Abigail (03:26):
Wow.
Very interesting.
So you use that in your companyby gy?
Sidney (03:32):
Yes Biji is one of the European experts in biomimicry.
Actually, biomimicry is so muchniche that we can, we could also
say that we are one of theinternational experts and our
role is to develop bio-inspiredtechnologies.
May it be for clients or forourselves?
So we actually I would say ourcore job is to work together
(03:56):
with industrial companies in theautomotive domain, chemical
domain.
It can be in the constructionindustry, it can be in the
luxury or consumer goodsindustry.
So industrial players that dohave challenges most of the time
we interact with r and ddepartments or innovation
depart.
They submit these challenges andour job, it, it may seem odd,
(04:17):
but that's what RY is all about,is looking into nature to see
how nature solve this specificchallenge.
And then being able to do kindof a biotic retro engineering
that consisting going from thebiological model that we have
investigated and identified.
To a bio-inspired technology.
(04:37):
So that's our job.
Of course, most of the time it'sB2B, so business to business and
sometimes it's also our own teamthat creates a technology and
that then patent a technology.
It, it really depends.
But our core job is B2B.
Abigail (04:52):
So it's so interesting to me that you know the
direction of the information.
You start with this problem, andthen you have the whole universe
to look into.
How do you, narrow that searchdown?
Sidney (05:06):
Yeah, it's actually, it's a struggle.
Yeah.
You know?
At first we had to investigate alot.
That means hours and hours, Iwould say even months and months
of work, investigative work youknow, going through huge amounts
of biological models.
That can put us biologicalpapers.
So you know, scientistseverywhere over the world in
(05:28):
Guatemala, in in Costa Rica, inEgypt, in in in Italy all over
the world.
So bio biologists that describenature.
And of course they publish bio,bio biological papers.
So scientifical papers thatdescribe.
Biological system you know,animals, plants, et cetera, et
(05:48):
cetera.
And our job is basically to beable to identify that.
We still do that today.
So there is a lot of work behindthat, but over the years, it has
become simpler for our teams.
Why?
Because we have gatheredexpertise.
We have gathered experience,which means that when we come
across a challenge that issubmitted by our partner.
(06:10):
Let's say for example, a, aclient that says, okay, I, I
want to be able to dissipateheat in a more efficient way for
my battery pack that has thetendency to overheat.
So how can I dissipate heat in amore efficient way?
Over time we've came across thechallenge so much, and so
frequently that we havegathered.
(06:33):
Enough experience not to avoidlooking into each biological
paper and, and doing month ofwork more.
Nowadays it's simpler for biog.
We know where and how naturedissipate dissipates seed.
So we, we do have kind of adatabase that is.
Easier for us to to go lookingin to, to make this kind of
(06:56):
investigative work.
Of course, this does not meanthat we do not have
investigative work anymore.
We, we still contact biologists.
We still go through loads ofscientific literature in order
to find the good biologicalmodels and good animals, good,
good plants, et cetera.
The right species that has theright.
System and the right property inorder to be able to, to address
(07:19):
the challenge.
But I would say it's easiernowadays, eight years on we've
gathered experience, so we haveefficient databases.
Abigail (07:27):
So when you find some, a solution in nature that looks
like it might work.
There's some translation alongthe way.
How do you look at somethingthat's happening either in an
animal or in a plant, and kindof translate that into, you
know, sort of engineering,mechanical engineering.
Sidney (07:46):
Exactly, that's what we, that's what we call retro
engineering.
So biometric, retro engineering,being able so it, it's not easy.
And most of the time that's, Iwould say one of the historical
limits of, of biomimicry isthat, there was kind of an
observation in nature one way wethought, wow, that's crazy.
(08:06):
Interesting.
Sophisticated.
It's really interesting.
Yes.
But the problem is it needs tocome, it, it needs to, you know
the, the output needs to betechnology that is fees.
There's this cost effective thatcan be applied to industrial
platform or industrialproduction process.
(08:26):
It needs to answer market needsand sometimes also, of course,
regulative needs and regulateregulations.
We, we need to respect them aswell.
So this means that I would saypart and, and the, the bigger,
the biggest part of being amatician.
That's why we, that's how wecall a bio-inspired engineer.
(08:47):
At Biog is being able not onlyto identify the biological
model, but be being able toreproduce and copy in a feasible
way.
So of course it's all a questionof material that are used of the
implication in terms offeasibility.
So feasibility, investigativework in order to understand
well, okay some molecules,proteins.
(09:10):
Some taxations some structuralarchitectures, optical layers,
coatings that you do observe innature are built in a certain
way by the growth of the plant,the growth of an animal or by
you know organical, organical,maintenance.
So molecules that indirecttogether then that, that can be
(09:32):
repaired, for example, overtime, et cetera.
So this happens in nature, butonce we observe that in nature,
we are not typically and, andsystematically able to reproduce
that with the same materials forindustrial purposes.
That that does not happen thisway.
So for example, if you seetaxation, let me give you one
example.
If you see.
(09:53):
Taxation in nature, for example,that avoid reflection on a
surface.
So it can be interesting for itcan be interesting for several
purposes in the, in theindustry.
It can be for the opticalindustry.
It can be interesting also forthe consumer goods industry.
So how do you avoid reflections?
Well, what happens in nature istaxation.
(10:14):
Yeah.
And taxation.
Is, as I said, the growth ofthe, of the animal or, or
itself.
So it happens over time over,over, over months or over days.
But transpose it to somethingthat needs to be produced a
hundred fold thousands fold per,per minute or per day for the
consumer goods industry.
And you'll find that this textduration, it doesn't need, it
(10:36):
can't be grown.
It needs to be produced, forexample, with.
Laser taxation or specificmolding that have cost
implications that arecomfortable with the industry or
the, the sector we are workingwith.
So part of our job is tounderstand this transposition
being able to do this retroengineering.
And again, it's also a questionof experience.
(10:58):
Over time we've came tounderstand how we can transpose
specific systems to inindustrial use cases.
This question is complex becausethere are as many answers
possible as there are sectorsand use cases possible.
I would say that the good newsis that our success rate is
around 70% and being able totransform a biological model 70%
(11:24):
of the time into something thatis viable.
Industrially speaking is.
Is, is a good first step, and Iwould say is a successful is
successful enough and reassuringenough for clients to test
biomimicry and say, okay, thisis credible and I want to work
with BioCity.
But sometimes I won't lie aboutit.
(11:46):
Sometimes it's harsh, so.
It is also being able tocorrectly anticipate the topic
that you're addressing.
So actually this is kind of ahuge learning for biog and for
every engineer that works atbiog.
Is that before you know,launching our ourself.
Into a bio-inspired projectwhere we say, okay, biomimicry
(12:09):
is it's versatile.
It can dress every type ofsituation, et cetera.
Yes, on a theoretical point ofview, it could, but nowadays we.
Put a lot of efforts beforelaunching a project to discuss
the topics at hand with ourpartners.
And so what happens most of thetime is that we actually ask
them for a list of topics.
(12:31):
So topics where they think theyhave.
Problems, challenges.
So it can be pain points, can beincremental topics.
It can also be disruptivetopics, but we ask them for a
list.
And out of this list we, weselect the topics where we think
we have the best chances ofsuccess.
Not only because Bio Creek canactually bring an added value
(12:54):
compared to conventionalengineering, but also because
Byman McCree has good chancesof.
I mean, the technology can befeasible at the end.
So it's the experience that istalking there.
And I think that is somethingthat is really appreciated by
our prospects and by ourclients.
Abigail (13:11):
Can you just elaborate a little bit on that?
What are the advantages?
Like if a client has a problemto fix and that's on a, you
know, part of that list that youreally feel like you've got some
insight on, and it can relate tothis nature's functioning.
How might your solution differfrom a classical engineering
(14:02):
solution and how is that, how isthe client appreciative of that?
Sidney (14:07):
I would say that, first of all, when it comes to solving
pain points, imagine for examplein Europe, I, I'm not sure if
it's if it's the case in the us,but I would imagine it, it will
at some point also be a bigtopic is how do you prevent, for
example, eternal polls, you knowPFAS, it's called PFAS in
France.
I think it's the internationalword for that.
(14:29):
So, yeah, same in the states.
So PFAS, how do you avoid that?
So, most industrial data, it's,it's used in, in a lot of
different sectors.
Will have explored many ways to,solve a specific function thanks
to PFAS.
But once you come across a painpoint where you have tested many
coatings, many surface dation,many types of materials,
(14:52):
chemicals, polymers, et cetera,et cetera you are in such, you
know, in such difficulty that itis actually interesting to find
an alternative and say, okay,this specific function that I
have solved over decades agowith PFAS I want to understand
how nature solved this specificchallenge.
(15:13):
And that's where biomimicry inHandy is.
Okay.
Finding a similar function, butseeing how this similar function
is actually done or actuallyaddressed in nature.
That's the first added value Iwould say when it comes to
incremental innovation.
Let's say we have a partner thatwants to reduce the vibration in
(15:35):
a.
Electric car.
So electric cars is, are, arecreate new problems of
vibrations.
So noise, vibration, acousticchallenges.
So how can I reduce the parasparasitic noise that are created
by auto electric vehicles orelectric motors and platforms.
Doing incremental innovation interms of RY means that you want
(15:57):
to understand how, how hasnature optimized a specific
function?
For example, reducing noise withcomposite materials specific
foam structures, specificinterfaces, et cetera, et
cetera.
So you.
Benefit from the optimized wayBiomimicry has been, nature has
(16:19):
been evolving over years andyears and years.
So the added value, the wholepurpose of doing biomimicry is
getting the chance to look atsomething.
That has been around formillions of years, or for at
least thousands and thousands ofyears.
So basically what you benefitfrom is kind of the biological
selection process we are talkingabout you know trial and error
(16:43):
for, for years and years and
Abigail (16:45):
not the beta.
Sidney (16:47):
So, yeah.
Yeah.
Not the better, better version.
So this means that you actuallycan achieve performance, you can
achieve sustainability dependingon the topic that you have.
Sometimes it's lightweightdesign.
Sometimes it's.
Noise absorption.
Sometimes it can be.
Yeah, as I said, reducingreflectance.
When we talk about opticalsystem I talked also about
(17:10):
dissipating heat.
Exchanging heat isolation.
You have many, many differentuse cases.
So looking into nature meanslooking into optimized and
enhanced system.
And last, if you look atdisruptive innovation, it can,
so when you.
Basically try to completely overover ramp or overhaul.
(17:32):
I don't remember the, theEnglish word for that.
So completely rethink of atechnology.
A specific technology is done.
So when you want to do somethingvery disruptive, very new.
Doing bio Mac Creek can alsomean being very ideated.
It creates new ideas, createsnew new concepts.
It can be interesting.
Let me give you one example.
(17:52):
If you, if you want, forexample, to reshape and rethink
of the way you, you design, forexample, a lending gear.
For an, for an aircraft.
So lending gears are always thesame system dampeners braking
system of course the wheels, etcetera, et cetera.
You could do two, two thingswith biomimicry.
(18:12):
First thing, it's good doing.
Incremental innovation, as Isaid.
So for example, how do I reducethe weight by 10% or by 15%?
And you look into naturalstructures that are very
interesting when it comes tofinding the right ratio between
weight and resistance,resistance to compression
forces, distortion forces, etcetera.
(18:33):
So you could do incrementalinnovation with nature.
And you look into bone design,you look into specific
composites in tree structures,et cetera.
So you'll find a lot ofinteresting models when it comes
to lightweight design.
So that's for the incrementalpart.
But when it comes for thedisruptive part, you could also
perfectly ask the question if itis your intention.
(18:55):
Well, I don't just want toreduce the weight of the lending
gear by 10%.
My interest is what does thelending gear look like?
In 10 years or 15 years time, Iwant to completely revamp my, my
system.
I want to, to have somethingthat is completely new and
breakthrough, and then biomecrew useful because you can ask
(19:16):
the question, which is, which isideated, at least at first,
which is how does nature land?
How does nature jump?
How does nature stabilizeitself, itself, for example, in
wrecked terrain?
You know, you understand, and,and so you can do creative
things with nature.
So does this answer yourquestion, Abigail?
Abigail (19:36):
Yeah, it's, it's wonderful.
So, do you have a favoriteinspiration in nature?
Is there something in naturethat's just kind of blown your
mind?
Like a favorite, I dunno, plantor animal that does something
just really outrageous that youcould to share with us?
Sidney (19:52):
I mean, I could give an example of a project we had
because it's one of my favoriteones and I think it's a
beautiful project.
Abigail (20:00):
Yep.
Sidney (20:01):
A couple of years ago, it was actually two and a half
years ago there was one of ourclients in the construction
industry.
So we are not talking aboutaerospace, we're not talking
about automotive, et cetera,which are the fields where Ry
is, is used.
We're talking about constructionindustry.
They came and they asked us,okay we want to find an
(20:23):
alternative.
To quick lime.
Quick Lime is a chemical andhelps agglomerates soil
particles for constructionindustry.
So our client was using quicklime in order to stabilize.
The soil and the terrain wherethen they build.
Then there the construction, youhave to stabilize the field, the
(20:47):
soil, you have to have it verycompact, mechanically stable,
and also chemically stable.
You don't want to, you don'twant to, you field or your
terrain to erode.
If they are, for example, heavyrains and in order to do so they
use quick line.
And so quick line is perfect onthe paper.
(21:08):
It creates mechanical stability.
It creates chemical stability,is fast reaction.
It's a great chemical and it'sthe costs are reasonable.
But the problem with quick,quick line is, the quick line is
that quick line is ours isactually very carbon intensive.
One ton of quick line means oneton of CO2 that is used.
(21:31):
And so if, for example, our linewas using maybe remember for 50
or 60 thousands, tons of quickline each year, it means a huge
carbon footprint.
And in Europe it's a problem.
It's a real problem, but notonly is it a problem in terms of
carbon footprint, it wasbecoming a problem in terms of
(21:52):
economical balance problem thatis that quick lime because of
energy instability energy, costinstability in Europe was
beginning to be very, very, veryexpensive.
So they asked us to find analternative.
We went to look into nature in,insects that are very good in
(22:13):
building so.
I would say architecturalgeniuses.
And we ended up looking intotermites.
We perfectly know that termitesare good architects because they
create interesting structuresthat are already already used in
architecture for ventilationpurposes, et cetera, et cetera.
(22:33):
But actually what got into our,in our, what got our interest is
that termites creates.
Mounts.
So they create their homes,things to local soil, agile that
they're using, but alsobiopolymers that exist.
So fibers of plants, leaves, etcetera, that are found locally.
(22:56):
So they agglomerate all of.
In order to create the hugemounts, six meters high, maybe
15, 20 meters also underground.
So this whole thing ismechanically stable, but it's
also chemically stable.
You can have.
Rain heavy rains on the to moonsmounds, and it would, it, it
(23:16):
won't crumble.
So it's very, very compact andvery rigid and very mechanically
stable.
So we looked in decipher to,well, how does the tur do that?
What, what's, what's thechemical secret behind that?
And we actually.
Found out that termites wereusing their saliva to do so, and
(23:36):
more specifically, within theirsaliva.
There were parts of chemicalcompounds and thematic compounds
that are used in order to dothis kind of chemical reaction
and happens fast.
So their aglo, aglo theirchemical that agglomerates the
soil.
Is within their saliva.
(23:57):
By understanding the suffering,all of that, we were able to
understand that we couldactually reproduce that in this
in a synthetic way.
So actually, the goal is not tohave.
You know, forms of termiteswhere we actually, you know,
farm their saliva.
It's not the, it's not theobjective.
(24:18):
Our objective was to createsomething that was industrially
feasible.
And there you go again.
How do I make this happen on alarge scale?
And so we synthesized what wefound, the compounds that we
found in the sali in the term ofthe sali in the saliva term.
Sorry.
In the termite saliva, we wereable to do that and synthesize
(24:40):
that on a industrial scale.
We brought the cost down.
We completely reduced the, thewe, we hugely reduced the CO2
footprint.
I think it was by 70%.
We were then able also to usethat on the industrial scale.
So test it actually, not only inthe labs as a proof of concept,
(25:01):
but then as well on the field.
So this means that thistechnology, this bio-inspired
chemical that replaces quicklime, it's a agglomerating
chemical is actually used inFrance.
On the fields.
We have pilots testing fields,and it actually behaves the way
(25:22):
we wanted it to be.
So it wa it is a, a greatproject and that's one of my
most favorite ones because notonly does it prove that well of
course re is useful, but itproves as well that re is useful
in terms of chemicals.
And for the constructionindustry, which is a.
Cost conscious industry becauseit has low margins.
(25:45):
And of course the termites are,you know, very interesting
insects.
And it also shows that Biore isnot only useful for in terms of
economics, you know,performance.
So bringing the cost down butalso in terms of CO2 footprint.
And let me tell you that ourclients will win bidding
contests.
(26:06):
For construction sites becausethey have something that is less
expensive and that is less CO2emitting.
So they will have a hugecompetitive advantage within
their industry.
So I think that's one of myfavorite one.
And, and the termite also is a,is a nice favorite of of mine.
(26:26):
I do also like butterflies andand dragonflies.
Because I think that there arevery, well very efficient
predators.
They have a lot of equipment.
If you look at the dragonfly, adragonfly is, has a very
sophistic, a very sophisticatedvision system.
They can look all around theyhave fast for, fast vision
(26:48):
system so they can see in slowmotion.
They have an efficient visionsystem so they can.
Track their prey without usingtoo much energy for the, for
their vision system and for theyou know, the, the computing
system, which are, which isactually the brain.
So they're very efficient interms of image processing, which
could be interesting foralgorithms, for example,
(27:10):
autonomous algorithm.
They also obviously have veryefficient flying systems.
So we are talking about a veryadvanced aerodynamics.
They can fly backwards.
They can fly on, on, and theycan stay on the same place.
They can fly fast forward.
They can also have a lot ofacceleration, deceleration.
(27:30):
And of course after that it'salso interesting to note that
they have lightweight design ontheir rings.
Their wings are bothlightweight, very resistant, but
also transparent.
And their wings aresophisticated enough to be able
also to prevent bio fooling,which is the growth of bacteria
on the wings.
Because they live in very humidenvironments.
(27:51):
So dragonflies are very verywell known predators.
Their success rate is 98%.
So I think it's a fascinatinginsects.
And we've had at least half adozen project that where, where
we had use cases getting andtechnologies inspired by parts
of the, of the dragonfly.
So it's one of my favorites.
Abigail (28:13):
I love it.
Your passion is just so clear.
How did you get going in this?
What?
Where did you discover that thiswould be your calling?
Sidney (28:22):
Yes.
So I'm a, I'm a business schoolgraduate, so I'm actually, I'm
not an engineer and I'm not abiologist.
Whereas most of my team is butit's not my
Abigail (28:32):
Oh, good thing.
Sidney (28:33):
And so I hadn't heard of biomimicry before.
And I started my career in theautomotive industry in Germany
because I'm half German.
So I started working at Audi andat Porsche aga.
And, germans used to work onbiomimicry.
They called it bionics.
Mostly for mechatronic properpurposes, but also for
(28:56):
lightweight design.
And I heard of it, I heard ofbiomimicry and was a kind, oh,
this is, this is interesting.
And I was at this, at the stagewhere I thought I, I wanted.
To explore new ways ofinnovative innovation.
I wasn't sure if I wanted tobecome an entrepreneur but I
wanted to be free and envi very,very dynamic environments.
(29:20):
And of course I wanted my job tomake purpose, to have a purpose.
So I wanted something that couldcreate new technologies, but.
Technologies that, that weresustainable, that were circular
or at least that could make adifference somehow.
And so when I came across, so itwas.
Practically 10 years ago when Icome, came across biomimicry, I
(29:42):
immediately became passionatefor the reason that you can feel
is that it's, it's, it's somagical and it's kind of an
obvious idea to say, well,nature has had treatment eight
billions, years of evolution.
So it's, it's, it's it's aenhanced r and d laboratory and
the ideas.
Eent, it's sorry.
It's it's subtle.
(30:03):
I like the idea.
And of course juggling betweenbiology and engineering was also
very attractive.
So I became passionate aroundthat.
But fact is that, after a coupleof weeks of me, you know,
reading books around biomimicrylooking at TEDx conferences and,
(30:23):
and yeah, and, and, and everystuff that you could find
online.
The fact was that, okay, biomecrew is interesting, but how
come I don't hear so muchsuccess stories?
You can find some successstories, but it's always the
same.
And I thought, well, this iskind of odd.
(30:45):
How come that, how come that RYis not used on more?
Democratized way and our mo moremassive way.
You know, we hear aboutartificial intelligence, we hear
about quantum computing.
So we hear about new frontiersof innovation.
All of all of the day, but notthat much biomimicry, although
(31:05):
more so 10 years ago.
And so I quickly understood thatbiomimicry has been around for
some decades in hop uphillscience.
So for example, in the US we aretalking about Northrop Goman
Lockhead margin.
And so a company in theaerospace industry working with.
Uphill science.
(31:26):
So Harvard, MIT Stanford,Caltech, Virginia Tech, et
cetera.
So uphill science, aerospaceindustry and, and, and, and
projects that takes years toevolve.
So, of course you would findpatents and actually the
dynamics about bio-inspiredtechnology being pa patented is
growing.
(31:46):
So there is kind of a fastmoving dynamics here, but.
What I observed is that may itbe in the United States or in
Europe or in Asia.
It is difficult to find a lot ofsuccess stories and the
transmission between uphillscience and downhill corporate
(32:06):
research and development andthen products is difficult to
make.
For biomimicry.
And so I thought to myself,well, it could be interesting to
create a company that would bean expert in that.
I must say that of course it waskind of a moonshot.
But I was in my early twenties.
I had nothing to lose and so Ithought, well, maybe it's the
(32:30):
time for me to build a dreamcompany.
And so at, at first I was likealone on that.
And again, I'm not an engineer,so my objective was to create
kind of a consulting firm for atleast a year, and then after a
year being able to transform itinto an engineering company.
And so that's exactly how itwent down in 2017.
(32:53):
I 2018, sorry.
So it, it will be eight yearsago in a couple of months I
created biog and I went lookfor, for first clients, telling
them, okay.
Guys, hello.
This is Biome Cree.
This is how Biomimicry could beuseful.
Let's do some workshops.
And so the first ones were like,okay, this guy is crazy.
(33:15):
But he's passionate, papassionate.
He, he, he is, selling the idea,well, why not test the workshop
for maybe a thousand euro or2000 euros, you know?
And so also I think day two hadnothing to lose in testing that.
And I think it went well.
The first workshops were the,my, my first client was in the
(33:37):
automotive domain.
And, and the first workshop wereconclusive enough so that they
you know, asked me to, to, topursue the projects and tell me,
okay.
The idea of Biore is, isinteresting.
We understand how Biore could beuseful for our use cases.
And I was expert enough to haveinvestigative work on my own,
(33:57):
even if, if I was not anengineer.
And then they asked me after theworkshop, so what now?
And this, what now was the prewhat was the, I think the kind
of the signal to, to say, okay.
This is great.
The idea that had to create aconsulting company that then
evolves to an engineeringcompany actually works because
(34:18):
then the need is there.
They say, okay, what now?
Now we want to develop theconcept.
Then we hand we want to have aproof of concept, and then we
(35:02):
have, we want to develop thetechnology and go through the,
all the, the, the technologymaturity levels.
And so.
At this stage I told them, okay,if you want it to happen you
have to pay me part of theproject.
When we start the project andwhen we sign the project.
And with this money, I was ableto recruit the first engineers
(35:23):
and then over time.
Gather and hire a, a, a a teamof engineers that have
experienced enough.
And so that's yeah, that's theentrepreneurial story.
That has been yeah, that hasbeen mine for the last eight
years.
Abigail (35:38):
So how many, how many folks do you have in your firm
today?
Sidney (35:41):
are 30 people strong.
So I would say it's not astartup anymore.
It's kind of a more of a scaleup company or mid-sized company.
And yeah, and and recruiting newgo, new ones.
Yeah, that's the, and, and overtime we've.
We've worked with Frenchcompanies.
So I went back to France tocreate my company because I
thought that the startupatmosphere, that startup mindset
(36:04):
in France was interesting andwas favorable.
I think it was the goodconditions.
You have a lot of subsidiariesyou have a lot of help from the
states, et cetera.
So it was kind of a goodecosystem to create a company,
to create a startup.
And I created the company.
We had the, our first Frenchclients.
(36:24):
Now we have clients in Germany,in Switzerland, in Belgium, in
Austria.
We even have clients in, inJapan.
We have our first clients alsoin the United States.
We have them in Italy.
So the growing, the company isgrowing international.
And that's, I think that's agood sign.
I, I'm, I'm very proud of that.
Abigail (36:45):
So did you ever have to raise money?
I mean, you've got this startup,it's doing well, it's growing.
It it, because you're in aconsulting firm, it was just
sort of slow growth and you ownyour own company.
That's
Sidney (36:55):
Exactly the, the consulting business means I ha I
could do kind of a bootstrap ororganic growth logic.
So I don't have investors.
But in the future we'll haveother business models.
So as I said we are alsocreating our new technologies,
which mean that one day or theother will have to have
(37:15):
investors in on onboard.
But maybe on a branch of Biogen,not the, the, not the job and
the and the general businessmodel that we've had over the
years.
Abigail (37:26):
And is that how you see the balance going?
Is it more interesting to build,build products?
Is that the idea?
Or do you really wanna stay inthe world of consulting?
Sidney (37:35):
No, I mean we'll keep our consulting business.
We team, we'll keep ourengineering office.
Consulting business because it'sthe core I would say backbone of
our company, which helps usunderstand the tendencies that,
that each sector faces.
This so it's, it's known in, inFrance.
(37:58):
So I, I had a lunch with aclient of ours in the perfume
industry.
Abigail (38:04):
Mm.
Sidney (38:04):
And it's interesting for us to gather the types of topics
challenges, pain points thathave, so we'll definitely keep
the engineering and consultingbusiness.
Abigail (38:14):
how you're learning.
Sidney (38:15):
Yeah.
That's how we learn.
But it is for us, interesting tocreate and develop, even if it's
more cash intensive, our owntechnologies over time, because
we have, we, we, we don't.
I, I mean, at at least we are alittle bit more autonomous,
which means that we don't haveto justify to a client his own
(38:40):
boss.
And the boss of the boss thatneeds to validate a budget.
The, you know, the soundprooftechnology that we want to
create, you know we think thatit's all the questions of being
able to try to dare and not tobe too hesitating about a a an
innovation or a technology.
(39:01):
And so most of the time in theconsulting business your own
ability to innovate and tocreate new technology really
depends.
The willingness and risk takingstrategy of your own client.
And so in order to be more free,in order to have the ability to
be audacious, to be you know, toto, to have great ideas and to
(39:25):
be a little bit more risky inour approach, we, we just need
to create our own technologies.
So barge can and already does,invest a little bit of money.
Some of these technologies thatwe then will resell in terms of
we will resell patents orlicensing rights to patents or
(39:45):
even create some of our ownproducts.
So we have already have projectsongoing on that.
But if we, for, for some ofthese technologies, there are so
much ambitious that we will needto to, to raise funds for that,
to raise money for that.
Abigail (40:00):
yep.
Okay.
Well, good to know.
So do you have advice for otherentrepreneurs that are, that are
environmentally thoughtful,looking at nature kind of
businesses.
Sidney (40:13):
Yes, I, I think that what creates a, a successful
business is being able to keepthings pragmatic in the nature
business, in the environmentalbusiness.
Most of the entrepreneurs,especially young ones that I,
sea or meat have huge ideas.
(40:36):
They are really ideologicallydriven, which is perfectly
understandable and which is finebecause you need I ideology and
you need passion and you needdreams in order to be an
entrepreneur and to be able tochange things because you will
have.
Front wind and not a tailwind,You will, you won't have always
(40:58):
tailwind.
You will have wind in that comein your face and that creates
obstacles.
So.
It is good to have ideology, butkeep in mind, and that would be
my advice, always keep in mindto have to be cool headed enough
and pragmatic enough tounderstand that what makes a
successful business is at theend.
(41:21):
Is there a return on investmentfor your client?
And the re return on investmentcould be monetary, of course, it
could be marketing, it could be.
Regulations.
You can have different types ofreturn on investment, but if the
return on investment is notthere, you won't convince
(41:41):
anybody.
So I would say, I would say myadvice and I lived through that,
is staying pragmatic.
Even if you're trying to sellsustainable technologies,
sustainable concepts, it will.
Function only if there is asolid business model, a solid
(42:02):
product, and a solid you know,money strategy behind that for
you and for your clients, andfor your partners and for your
investors.
Abigail (42:11):
Hmm.
Amen to that.
Sidney (42:13):
Yeah.
Abigail (42:15):
All right.
Well, I ask everybody this oneparting question.
Are you optimistic, I mean, wetalked to all these
entrepreneurs that are doingthings that have positive
impacts on the, on the planet.
Are you, feeling optimisticabout the planet and where we're
headed with today?
Sidney (42:34):
I am optimistic in a sense that I.
Over time, things will get inorder and will be in urgent
situation enough to findsolution and to implement these
solutions.
I'm optimistic enough for that.
(42:56):
So I'm optimistic in a, thathuman, I don't think that
humanity will destroy itself andthat one day are the o are the
other.
We will be in, in dire situationenough to create technologies
and to be able to react.
And most of the time that's howthe human species is has worked.
(43:19):
We are bad at anticipating,actually.
I think we are more I thinkfitted to react, which is kind
of a biological way of things.
It's you only react to somethingthat is palpable, near
understandable.
That can be felt.
It's difficult to anticipate.
On that part, I meant I'menthusiastic and optimistic
enough to think that we willfind solution at the end and we
(43:42):
will overcome all the challengesthat are around sustainable
around climates aroundpollution, et cetera, et cetera.
Where I'm a bit more pessimisticis that I don't think it will
happen without huge losses.
Abigail (43:57):
Hmm.
Sidney (43:58):
And I think that we will see dire times, difficult times
where they will be losses oflife, losses of continuous
losses of bio biodiversity warsand conflict.
And also yeah, maybe famine.
And yeah, I, I think there willbe di difficult situations and
(44:19):
I.
I think it's not beingpessimistic.
I think it's more beingrealistic.
If you look at the studies, ifyou look at the trajectories, if
you look at any types of youknow, experts experts papers
they all describe the same.
Hard times to come.
So it's, it's it's not beingpessimistic to think that this
(44:42):
will happen.
It's just being realistic, beingoptimistic is saying, okay, even
this, if this happens, even the,the, all the hardships will
create solutions.
That's the way I see the future.
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