The Beauty of Dog Behavior

Join me for a conversation with Eileen Koval, a dog behavior specialist, as we discuss the beauty of the way dogs interact with the world around them through stories of her pups, Gilgamesh and Bones. We also discuss her philosophy of finding ways we can set our pups up to succeed, which I love!

Be sure to visit her site at https://www.confidentcaninesdogtraining.com!

Episode Transcript

Julie Jackson (00:00):
Hey, welcome to Happy Tales of Happy Tails, the

(00:05):
podcast where you'll hearstories of the way pups have
touched our hearts and ourlives. So for the next few
minutes, let everything else goand just listen and smile. I'm
your host, Julie Jackson.
Hey, friends. This week, we havea great conversation with Eileen

(00:27):
Koval, the owner of ConfidentCanines. She has such an
interesting business. Shespecializes in not only
Professional dog training andagility training, but
rattlesnake avoidance training.
And she's also a certified dogbehavior consultant. So it was
just really fascinating to hearher perspective and talk to her

(00:49):
about her sweet pups. And just anote, because I am behind and
editing some of these episodes,her sweet bones has passed since
we had this conversation. So I'mespecially grateful that we had
the opportunity to learn abouther and their journey together.
So I know that you will enjoythis conversation as much as I

(01:13):
did. Just sit back and listenand smile.

Eileen (01:20):
Hey, can you see me?

Julie Jackson (01:22):
I can.

Eileen (01:23):
Awesome.

Julie Jackson (01:24):
How are you?

Eileen (01:25):
I'm good. How are you?

Julie Jackson (01:27):
I'm good. Thank you so much for doing this.

Eileen (01:31):
Oh, thanks for inviting me. This is fun. I was looking
at those other episodes andstuff is very cool.

Julie Jackson (01:37):
Oh, thank you.
It's been really fun to do.
Like, it's just fun to talkabout dogs.

Unknown (01:42):
Well, yeah. Everybody's got stories. And yeah.

Julie Jackson (01:47):
Well, and you know, it's funny, because some
people are like, Oh, I don'treally have a story. But then
they start talking. And it maynot be like a story. But then
you just like hear, like howtheir whole life has been
changed by this dog. And it'slike, that's a story.

Unknown (02:02):
Right? Right. It doesn't have to be something
that's just kind of like overthe top or anything even, you
know, Korea. Yeah, I feel likeeach dog or, you know, each pet
just really has, you know, theway that they weave themselves
into our lives. It's them asindividuals to Yes,

Julie Jackson (02:21):
and how they have such unique personalities. And I
always feel kind of maybe sad,or maybe kind of glad when
people realize it. But peoplewho've always thought of dogs is
just like something that theykeep in their backyard or
something. And then they'rearound, and they go, Oh my gosh,
your dogs are so funny, orthey're so sweet or whatever. Or

(02:43):
they start spending more timewith their dogs. And then they
start realizing they're not justthis thing, right? You know, but
that oh my goodness, theyunderstand. Yeah.

Unknown (02:56):
Yeah, exactly. They all do. It's not like yours, or, you
know, the unique in that wayyour mind cuz I've heard the
same thing too. And I'm like,why? Sometimes, like, these have
to connect with that specificanimal. Or sometimes I feel like
people, they had another dog.
They're like, Oh, this new doghas no personality, or he's just
loud or whatever. And, you know,they're all different. And you
have to just find a way toconnect. And I mean, they

(03:17):
haven't found a dog that doesn'thave their own complex
personality and their own story.

Julie Jackson (03:26):
Yes. So one of the things I loved so much when
we heard you talk is how youkept talking about different
ways to set the dog up forsuccess. And I think that's a
big thing, too, is like we justrescued a new pup right before
that week. And yeah,fortunately, our daughter was
staying home. So she she wasstill in the same environment

(03:48):
with our daughter. So it wasdisruptive. It's funny, because
you know, when we got her, herfosters for like, she's really
shy. And you know, she's reallyfriendly, but she's really shy
and she is really adorable andfriendly. But we're laughing now
because we're like, Her nicknameis The sheriff. We're like,
She's not shy at all. She justcomfortable, you know? And now

(04:09):
she's bossing everyone elsearound. You.

Unknown (04:14):
Oh, that is so funny.
She just, you know, she had tobe in an environment where she
could really let her personalitycome out where she felt safe to
be herself. Yeah,

Julie Jackson (04:22):
I think so. They just need a little time to know
that okay, it's I'm safe hereand I'm not gonna nothing's
bad's gonna happen if I'm justmyself. Well, tell us about who
you're going to talk abouttoday. Oh,

Unknown (04:38):
well, um, I have a right now I have two dogs. I
have Bones who's 13 years oldand she's a Dutch
Kooikerhondjes. And we've hadher since she was a puppy. And
then I have Gilgamesh who is afour year old at the same breed
and gosh, like even though youknow they're the same and

(04:59):
everything they're so differentand it's just been really neat,
you know, watching them and howthey approach situations, you
know, from the time that we'vehad them and seeing how they
both approach things sodifferently, like, you know, we
just opened up our pool for thesummer. And because we're in Las
Vegas, it is just it's so hotanymore. And you know, like

(05:20):
Gilgamesh, like his breeder whenwe got him he was just, she did
such a nice job like trying tohelp him and all the other
puppies feel confident toexplore. And that's something
that I've always liked with mydogs to explore. And we bought
like a property for the dogsmore or less like our house and
everything. We didn't care aboutthe house, we're like, oh, this

(05:41):
is a nice property. They'll lovesniffing around every morning.
And we really liked that. Butnot all dogs, as you probably
know, really feel thatcomfortable exploring. Well,
this guy when we brought himhome, you know, she had some
kind of kiddie pool for him. Andand all the other puppies and he
went and saw our big pool, andwe got in the pool, and we
thought, Oh, we're gonna reallyhave to coax this puppy to come

(06:02):
in because our other two dogs,we also had another one named
Beowulf at the time, they didn'twant to go near that pool, even
though they'd had it for a year,like going into something new
like that. They're just moreweary, you know, totally
different personality andprobably shaped by some of the
early things I did or didn't do,maybe, you know, just part of
who they are. But Gilgamesh seesus and he just goes and jumps

(06:25):
right in. We're like, oh, mygosh, and, you know, he's, it
seemed like, it's kind ofsurprised them. He thought it
was like a kiddie pool, and thenrealize, like a cannibal. Yeah,
he's like, Okay, that wasn'twhat I expected. But it's just
really interesting. Yeah,because I just really enjoy
watching them explore theirenvironment. Like we'll go

(06:46):
outside in the mornings. Andbecause while here, I'm sure
like they're to where you're at,it's just getting really hot
during Yeah, yeah. So we'll sitoutside with coffee or breakfast
in the shade in the morning,watch the birds. And, you know,
Gilgamesh will just stand theremotionless, but except for his
nose, going just as nose askeeps on going. And it's so

(07:09):
interesting watching how they'reexploring the world. You know,
they're exploring, like a wholedifferent world than we are. And
I just, I don't know, I'm adork. I love watching that kind
of stuff. And, you know, we'vebeen struggling a little bit
lately, because our older dogbones, she's 13. And she's
starting to show some of thatdementia stuff, you know, and

(07:30):
she has moments where she justalmost like a puppy, like she's
aged backwards in a way, youknow, we come home and she says,
zooming around, and she's soexcited and more energetic than,
you know, the four year oldGilgamesh. But the one thing
we've been so happy about isthat, you know, even though she
has moments where she getsfearful or nervous, or like, you

(07:52):
know, last night, there was onemoment where for a moment, she
didn't realize who I was acrossthe room. And once I came, that
was the first time that happenedwhen I came over, she's like,
Oh, what's your mommy, but herlove of exploring has not
stopped like right before I cameon the call with you, we went
outside, she's doing her littleperimeter checks of the property
just sniffing around seeingwhere the bunnies and a little

(08:14):
ground squirrels have gone. Andit just brings me such joy,
like, and so like to see animalsdoing that, like fulfilling
things for themselves, you know,just getting out there and just
having fun, and I happen upon aspot where she buried some
little two deinem and I'm like,you could have done a better
job. Like, you know,

Julie Jackson (08:37):
she was like, that was just for me. Yeah,

Unknown (08:40):
yeah, she's always on us. And she's a puppy and still
13 years old. Like, she'll goand bury stuff. And she's
allowed in certain spots, likebehind the shrug or something,
you know, where I don't reallymind that. But um, yeah, it's,
it's funny. It's funny to seeit's something I really like is
seeing animals explore whennobody's telling them what to
do. They're just kind of doingyou know, whatever, you know,

(09:04):
whatever drives they have, youknow, in that whole seeking
mode, like checking this outlearning about what's going on
around them. It's kind of cool.

Julie Jackson (09:11):
I know and there's lots of times that I
think those but when they dothat, too, it's like I wish I
knew what they were thinking yesI wish I knew what what what
drew them to that and thenwhat's keeping them there like
what's so fascinating and likewhen you talk about I love the
image of of his little nose justmoving but But you think about

(09:32):
how many more things that theysmell than we do anything that
that could be just overloadright there. In the end, it's
like, Oh, I wish I just knew

Unknown (09:42):
what oh, yeah, no, we've thought that too, because
sometimes you just really haveno idea no idea at all. And I'm
like, wow, he's like, getting atotally different experience out
the words right now than I am,like, totally taking in all this
other stuff than what I'venoticed. saying and a whole
different experience. Yes, it'sreally neat to see I love that

(10:05):
kind of stuff.

Julie Jackson (10:06):
We one night a few weeks ago, our daughter
also. So our new pup you mightsee her moving through here. She
is a little cowboy Corgi. Soshe's blue heeler Corgi mix. So
she has a corgi stature. She'svery funny, very cute. Her name
is Darcy. And then our daughterhas a little terrier mix. And so

(10:30):
they're they're both prettysmall. And we took them out for
a walk together just through theneighborhood. And there's kind
of some trails and a littleneighborhood park. And so you
know, we were just out strollingwith them. And it was the sun
was starting to go down. So itwas still light out, but dusk,
and we're walking. And ofcourse, they have to sniff
everything. And they're checkingeverything out. And they're, you

(10:52):
know, and which, like you said,it's so it's just fun to watch,
you know, the epitome of stopand smell the roses, or the rock
or the leaf for the you know,but it was funny, because as we
were heading, I mean, it's we'rea suburban neighborhood, and
we're heading back up to wherethis little trail goes to the
street. And there's houses allaround us, but there's probably

(11:14):
about 10 feet of grass areabetween the trail and the fence
to the backyard of the houses.
And all of a sudden Darcy justfreezes. And she's just locked
on to something and and we werekind of, you know, we're like,
Oh, something caught herattention. And I looked and I
saw a weed that was taller thanall the other grass. And I was

(11:36):
like, Oh, she's fascinated bythat weed. And we were kind of
laughing and I thought well,we'll let her look at it. And,
and, and then I was like, Ohyeah, it's kind of blowing in
the breeze. I guess that's whatgot her attention. And then all
of a sudden, I was like, wait aminute, there is no breeze. It
was a snake.

Unknown (11:55):
Oh, geez. Yes. And yeah,

Julie Jackson (11:59):
because of the lighting and everything. You
could really only almost seesilhouettes like, and we never
would have seen it. But it waslike up and doing this business.
And

Unknown (12:09):
oh, geez. Yeah. And we never had like too much.

Julie Jackson (12:14):
Bless her heart.
And you know, he was taller thanher and she was just like, she
was so serious. And, and shepicked up on it. I mean, she
picked up on it, you know, evenfeet before we got to that
point. And so of course then wehustled out of there, but I was
so mad. It's so amazing. And Iwas so thankful to because I was
like it could have continuedright along and we wouldn't have
ever known if she hadn't beenthere. Yeah,

Unknown (12:37):
she didn't go after it though. Or any? No, she I think
that

Julie Jackson (12:41):
I mean, of course she of course she was on leash
and I don't know, I think shewould have been, she would have
probably like she was not scaredat all. And I think if I would
have let her go check it out.
And I almost did because she waskind of like almost stalking.
You know, and yeah. And so Ialmost did because I was kind of
laughing about Oh, you want togo see the weed and then when I

(13:01):
realized I was like why is thatwe blowing in the wind that
there's no oh my gosh, then Icould see what it was. And I was
like what's going on here? Yeah.
But we were like you'redefinitely the hero of this
walk.

Unknown (13:19):
Oh my gosh, yeah, no, we've had stuff like that with
rattlesnakes on walks before andours are trained by scent to
like move away and avoid thembut it's only for like they only
know the scent of rattlers likebecause they each have like
their specific scent. BecauseI've seen with my dogs before
when we've hiked they reallyaren't too interested in snakes

(13:40):
and we've only encountered likelittle you know, harmless
things, but they'll be curious.
Well, when they've been onproperty before they've been
curious when we're off property,they just ignore them. But so I
was always concerned that youknow, if we were on our property
because we live in a semi ruraltype area so we have like, you
know, an acre or so. And youknow, that's entirely possible
there could be something and wewouldn't know because they just

(14:01):
kind of blend in or they hideunder stuff. But we've never had
them on property but I rememberwhen we lived in Florida before
because my husband was in themilitary and we moved around a
bit bones she was younger butshe would just make friends with
all these different animals hadcome on the property I remember
her just going up the turtlesand going up to different types

(14:23):
of snakes. She just makesfriends everywhere she goes and
like you don't need anyrattlesnake friends.

Julie Jackson (14:33):
Appreciate your heart but let's not be

Unknown (14:35):
friends. Yeah. Yeah, cuz I think she thought Well, I
gotta check this out. It's on myproperty. And then she'd be
like, Oh, you're okay, you canhang out here and I'm like, You
need to make any rattlerfriends. So yeah, we did that
once we moved to Vegas, you justyou know you never know what
they're taking in like theynotice things that are hitting
hidden under stop. You don'teven know they're there. Like

(14:57):
Gilgamesh he slid a little biton the floor. Whereas in our
house and, you know, because wehave like hard floors, like a
lot of people do, and it wasjust a little slide and I'm
always watching him like a hawk,and I noticed the slight lifts
slightest little irregularityand his gait. So I think He
strained his ilio. So it's alittle bit and so I was

(15:18):
arresting him. And you know, wehave bunnies stuff like that all
the property. So when I wastaking him out for like, a week
or so he's going on leash. Sothat whole exploring, you know,
I'm like, Well, you can explore,we're just not going to run into
it. You know, we're going to tryto be calm, which is a real
challenge for him. But I'd lethim kind of take me wherever he
wanted to go. Well, you know,they're shrubs. And normally,

(15:40):
there's nothing in there. All ofa sudden, he just started the
other day, because there's alittle bunny in there. Like, I
had no idea and he just he knewit.

Julie Jackson (15:51):
Yeah, they Yeah, way before we do, they're on it.

Unknown (15:55):
Yeah. Yeah. So that's yeah, that's been it's always
interesting seeing all that. Butnow they seem like they are
pretty good about, you know,springtime, because we always
get lots of little fledglings,lots of little babies of
different sorts. That's just sojoyful. Seeing all those come
out. And I'm just so happy areour dogs are good about that,
you know, but we also go in theyard and try to flush things out

(16:18):
like okay, go to your littlehomes before the dogs come out.
Yes, we get scared.

Julie Jackson (16:24):
Right? Yeah. All right. We, I wish we were on a
bigger place. But our yard ispretty small. And we're really
close to our neighborsfortunately have great neighbors
and they're all dog people. Butyes, yes, wonderful. But we we
had a little possum family, andI love possums too. I mean,

(16:44):
they're such great littleneighbors, you know, and I love
it. But we're the only ones thatreally have big established
trees. And I don't know if maybethat's what was appealing. But I
felt so bad because of all theyards, Mama possum moved into
our yard. And I know when I waslike we have the dogs. I mean,
lots of people have dogs thatare our big guys. We call them

(17:08):
the flutes and you might see atleast big fluffy tails going by.
That's them. And there are Huskywolf mixes. And

Unknown (17:17):
oh, yeah, I remember you telling me about them. Yeah.
Oh, cool. Yes. And they're

Julie Jackson (17:21):
sweet as can be.
But they're just kind of, youknow, big glutes, you know, and,
and they would get those awesomebabies and they didn't, they
would play rough with them andthey would kill them. And yeah,

Unknown (17:32):
one of them in the background member you wanted
pictures? Yeah, just sogorgeous. Thank

Julie Jackson (17:37):
you. Yeah, well, so Darcy, the new ones in the
chair right beside me. And thenEleanor is our 12 year old
healer and she's at my feet. Andthen chuck, one of the flips is
at my feet. And Barney isprobably he's probably like
dumping a recycle bin orsomething because he knows he's
the most mischievous cue.
Anytime this happens. He's like,Oh, good. I can go do I can go

(17:59):
to Yes.

Unknown (18:02):
She doesn't have eyes on me. I can do what I want.
Yeah,

Julie Jackson (18:05):
yeah. So I'll come out and find some kind of
shredded paper or something. I'mlike, okay, yeah. Cute.

Unknown (18:14):
Oh, yeah, we had possums. Not at this property.
But I remember we had him inwhen we lived in South Carolina
and had him in Florida. Andagain, Bones is like, oh, let's
be friends. And the possums arelike no,

Julie Jackson (18:28):
no. Yeah. No,

Unknown (18:31):
she just, you know, approaches everything with a
certain curiosity. And, youknow, like, some dogs aren't
like you were saying, like,aren't so curious. They're more
like predatory, you know,whereas other ones are guarding
their property with with her.
She just seemed curious. She'slike, just bumbling about, like,
you know, wanting to makefriends.

Julie Jackson (18:51):
See, and I think the boys thought they were I
think the boys really honestly,we're just trying to play with
them. Like it really playing.
Yeah, it wasn't. It wasn't likea it didn't seem like a
predatory thing. Oh, that'sgood. Yeah. Which it could have
been? I don't know. But but fromwhat we could tell, I think I
think it was more just they justdidn't recognize the disparity
in the size and that it was, youknow, and I think I could see

(19:15):
that. Yeah, yeah, we, we didhave one it was during COVID.
And my like, I guess it was2020. And my husband and I both
had COVID. And so we just feltmiserable. And we have we put a
storm door on our back door, andwe put a doggie door in the
storm door. So when we're home,we can open the back door but

(19:37):
the storm doors still shut andthey can come and go. But then
that way we can close it offwhen we don't know. Yeah. So. So
when we're home most of thetime, we just leave that back
door open in the storm door sothey can you know, come and go
as they please. And we'regetting ready to go to bed and
both of us felt miserable. Andwe were trying to get them to
come in and we could not get toUp to come in and my husband

(20:00):
went out in the yard to try tohit like he wanted to play and
so he was running. And all of asudden he came running high
speed through that dog door andjust as he hit the dog door, I
realized why he wouldn't come inand why he was running in so
fast and he had a live possum inhis mouth. Oh my god. I mean,
came flying into the live. Yeah,and you can fly in the house and

(20:24):
when he hit that dog Dori hit itjust right that it knocked the
positive out of his mouth. Thepoor possum spun across the
kitchen floor on its back.

Unknown (20:34):
Oh my gosh is in your house

Julie Jackson (20:38):
was yelling for my husband was a total chaos.
But fortunately, we got the dogsin and the poor possum back out
in the yard. So and the possumwas fine. Like we went out there
a little bit later, and he wasgone. But like

Unknown (20:50):
stuff you don't expect, like it's so crazy. Well, that's
how we ended up flushing theanimals away because I remember
little Beowulf and Gilgameshlike they picked up little
fledgling birds before thatcould fly. And they didn't do
anything to them, like and whenI said drop it, they actually
just dropped it right away. And,you know, and, you know, I was

(21:10):
horrified. Like, oh my gosh,these poor Mama's are probably
overhead watching and justseeing their little baby picked
up. Because I remember, one ofthe boys picked it up. I said,
drop it, and the other one wentand picked it up. And I was
like, No, drop it. And they didand I was able to get the dogs
in. But like these littlefledgling, they just would hop
around on the ground and youknow, didn't realize they were

(21:33):
out. So that's when in thespringtime, we started trying to
shoo them away a little bit orsee who's around because we
won't let them out like if thoselittle guys are on the ground.
But yeah, it is the same thingwhere I don't know what their
intentions were if they justthought, hey, this is another
toy or we're playing or what itwas, but thank God it didn't
hurt. Um, yes. Yes, I was. Ithink so upset NATO were like,

(21:56):
Mom, why are you upset aboutthis? Like, Isn't this so cool?
Yeah, they bring you gifts.
Yeah, yeah. Cuz I was like, kindof panicky. I see like the
bird's eye is like soaping.

Julie Jackson (22:13):
This look like somebody helped me please. Yes.
So, of course, I'm laughingbecause when you say drop it,
you know, your dogs obey. Yet,but a lot of that has to do with
the fact that you have such aninteresting job. So would you
share a little bit about whatyou

Unknown (22:32):
do? Um, yeah, so I do dog behavior, consulting. And
then also some training too. Butmostly, I do like behavior cases
for anxiety, stress, aggression,fear, phobias, that sort of
thing. And then sometimes I justget to work with wonderful
little puppies that just needgeneral training or older dogs

(22:55):
that want to learn more, butdoing a lot of behavior cases.
So that's so rewarding, though,because like I said, Every dog
should feel safe, and where theycan explore their environment,
they can just enjoy life. Butfor some of them, they just
don't for whatever reason, likethey're stressed, or they're not
able to currently understand howthey're supposed to interact in

(23:15):
their environment. So you havethese undesirable behaviors, and
people aren't allowing them indifferent situations, because
they don't trust that they'regoing to have certain behavior.
So it's really nice, being ableto be in the middle there to try
to help people understand why ismy dog doing this and figure out
why that why their dog is whatthey need, and then provide

(23:36):
solutions and training. So yeah,cuz I want every dog to you
know, have that sort ofrelationship with their owner
and, you know, mine do listenand everything, but it's not
because they're so much smarterthan anybody else's dogs, like I
worked with them from the momentwe got them. And I've been very
fortunate that, you know, thatI've been able to have those
skills because I think aboutyears ago, like, like bones, she

(23:58):
didn't get the same level oftraining and socialization and
all that when she was youngcompared to the other ones. Like
we took her places, butsometimes, you know, I think
about hey, maybe like I took herplaces too fast, like places
that were too busy or too noisy,or I should have trained this
earlier or whatever, you know,like you learn as you're going
along. And so it's nice, beingable to take like, you know, my

(24:20):
education, my experiencesworking with all the 1000s of
different dogs and like, offerthat to other people. Because,
you know, people sometimesthey're like, I wish I'd done
that. I wish I'd done this. I'mlike, Hey, me, too. Yeah, with
every dog you learn and you inyou grow.

Julie Jackson (24:37):
Yeah, in hindsight is always 2020. Oh,
yeah, totally. Like, oh, yeah,that would have been a great
idea. Yeah. So our one of ourneighbors, they recently rescued
a new guy, and he's a doodle.
And I found him in a shelter.
And I know and I don't know,they don't know what obviously

(24:59):
what his story was. They said hewas all matted and had big ears.
And you know, it did not comefrom like, he came from
something, but nobody knowswhat. And so anyway, he, when
our dogs are out in the yard,and he's out in the yard he gets
really upset, is like superaggressive through the fence.

(25:20):
And when they come and try tobring him in, you know, he, I
think they were afraid at firstthat we thought they were
beating him or something becausehe saw dramatic about it and
talking to him the other day.
And he said, Well, we found outnow they have another dog. And
he does fine with their dog. Buthe said, we found out he's dog
reactive. So he's fine withpeople. And who knows what

(25:41):
happened. But he's very dogreactive. And so they're working
on that. And he said, Yeah,we're just not sure, though,
because you know how to workwith him. And I said, Well, we
just met someone that you mightneed to talk to.

Unknown (25:56):
Yeah, do you like is being so I'd love to talk with
them or that find to help themfind somebody in their local
area to who could help because alot of times those things can be
addressed. I actually see like alot of reactivity and doodles
like it's not unusual. And wesee it to happen in certain
breeds. And sometimes we see itwith doodles. It's not always an
aggression thing, either.
There's so many reasons they canbe reacting to things. And it

(26:18):
sure sounds like heat that poordog, he's been through a lot and
who knows, like what kind ofdifferent experiences he's had.
So hopefully they can, you know,talk with well, either me or
somebody else and help figurethat out and get him set up for
success. Because he sounds likehe's really lucky to come to
their place, you know, orsomebody's trying to understand
him,

Julie Jackson (26:39):
either. Very, yeah, they're very sweet with.
They had another Doodle. Andthen he had a very sudden, like,
he very suddenly andunexpectedly passed. And he was
yeah, oh, yeah. And it was, ithasn't been that long ago. I
don't remember exactly how manymonths ago, but within the last,

(27:00):
not even year. And so then whenthey have a real heart for
doodles. And so then when theysaw this Doodle in the shelter,
they were like, Oh, my goodness,that you know, and that she felt
like that was that was meant tobe, but I'm so glad to know,
because I didn't know, sincewe're so far apart, and I told
him I go I don't know if shecould do anything virtually, or
if maybe just help you findsomeone. But I

Unknown (27:22):
said, Yeah, I do stop over zoom. And I'm also happy to
help them find somebody local toeither way, because, yeah, a lot
of times that can be helped. Andit sounds like, you know, he's,
he's come from a roughsituation. But a lot of dogs are
reactive when we actually seenmore that during COVID. Because
people's lifestyles havechanged. Sometimes they weren't
getting out as much with puppiesas they could have, you know,

(27:46):
before and just, you know, wedon't always have people to our
homes as much as we previouslydid. I know for my dogs, like
they changed socially as well,because we had nobody to our
house for two years, you know.
And then also, too, they weren'tmeeting up with other people's
dogs, because I used to havegroup classes, but then I
stopped those because like, weweren't allowed to have group
classes. And I think that wasreally good for my dogs getting

(28:07):
to be around these other dogsand around other people. Because
with Quakers, their breed likethey're usually not super social
with other dogs, but I like tokeep them around other dogs. So
they know how to navigate thosesituations, you know, like they
can breed and say, Hello, befriends not feel like there,
something's going to happen tothem, you know. But then when

(28:27):
they weren't around other dogsfor that time, like they started
getting a little weary. And soafter COVID, I started to see
like some mild reactivity aswell. And I saw that with a lot
of my clients too. We also sawsome separation anxiety. Once I
started actually going back outto client appointments. I
remember Gilgamesh he startedworking in the house. Once I

(28:50):
started leaving, I was like, Ohmy God. Yeah, and like he was
start, you know, crying, and sowere the other two as well, but
his like, he would urine mark,and it was distress, it was a
stress of it. And so we had ourown little challenges to work
through just like everybodyelse, you know, they're complex,

(29:11):
you know, little creatures, likethey're just like people in some
ways where they're not simple.
They each have like theseemotions going on and have to
figure out why they're doingthese behaviors. A lot of times
people are like, well, I want tostop this, or I want to stop
this. And I'm like, Well, whyare they doing it? You know,
because for them, they were justvery anxious after COVID they

(29:34):
didn't know how to handle beingalone. Because even though I
tried to go out and just walkaround on my own or drive around
the block, we were home theother 22 hours of the day, you
know, they weren't used to beingon their own, or once we started
getting out in these socialsituations are like, well, these
aren't so familiar. How do Ihandle these and it was just
like with us. We also had someof our own little social

(29:57):
anxieties about how we handlethese things because We're not
used to being at parties orbeing, you know, events where
there's lots of other peoplearound. And so who knows, like,
with that, that doodle, I havejust seen a lot of that anymore.
And I always like to share withpeople, Hey, you're not alone, I
think there isn't a dog whohasn't been affected in some

(30:17):
way. You know, by all the socialchanges and upheaval that have
gone on the last few years,because I used to see
reactivity, some see a whole lotmore of it. Now.

Julie Jackson (30:27):
That's interesting. And it you know,
that brings up such a goodpoint, because it's true, even
for us, and I had not thoughtabout this until you said that,
but probably for the dogs too,you know, things that we go out
after COVID and things that usedto be socially acceptable. Now
the sudden you're kind of like,oh, I don't know, is that, like,
do we shake hands? You know, youmeet someone, and you're kind of

(30:48):
like I, you know, and, and alot, there's probably a lot of
things to the dogs are kind oflike, I don't know, is this
okay? Am I allowed to do right?
You know? No,

Unknown (30:58):
that's so true. Because before people would stop and
talk to you on the street more,and during COVID, you know,
nobody was stopping to talk toanybody. So then when somebody
does approach the owner and say,hey, that's such a cute dog,
well, you know, what's his nameor something? Now, sometimes
you're seeing where they want toguard the owner, or the dog
thinks that this is unusual,because they haven't seen that

(31:18):
happen before. And so thingsthat used to be more common and
every day to the dog, that'ssomething abnormal. Yeah. Oh,
yeah. Yeah, it's not the dog'sfault. It's not behavior we
want. But it's like, well, whenyou think about it's like, okay,
to them, this is abnormalsituation, and they're not sure
what to do about it, or howthey're supposed to feel or how

(31:40):
they're supposed to behave. Sowell. And

Julie Jackson (31:42):
yeah, to to them to yours to them. That might,
you know, two years of doingthings a certain way, and then
going back to a different way.
Two years might be like,practically a lifetime. In their
perspective. Absolutely.

Unknown (31:56):
Yeah. And honestly, to me, too, it feels like a long
time. Like I it feels like it'sa you know, just when you think
of you know how things werebefore and how they are now it
feels like it's been a longtime. So to know, it's, I think
there's nobody that's not thathasn't been affected by it. So I
always like to tell people,though, just because they're

(32:17):
doing this now, or they feelthis way. Now, that's not always
how it has to be. So it's hardto find the right help or go to
the right places, though. Soyeah, but I always tell people,
like find somebody who's tryingto look at the emotions behind
it. You know why? You're notjust trying to stop this stop
back kind of thing?

Julie Jackson (32:35):
Yes, I are neighbors. I know. They've
really been working with him.
And oh, yeah, yes, yeah. And Iknow when they when he goes out
in the yard, now they have himon a long lead, and kind of go
out there with him. And insteadof just because I know that we
and we always try to if werealize they were out there,
we'd always try to bring oursin, because ours have the doggie

(32:57):
door, they can go in and outwhenever so if we pull them in,
they're not missing out on anyprivileges. You know, they try
other opportunities. And so wedon't want his time to be
ruined, because they're outthere. But they have dogs all
around them, too. So I thinkthey said, you know, we're kind
of working with him on the leadto kind of keep him from getting
up against the fence and gettingupset by the other.

Unknown (33:22):
Yeah. Oh, no, that's really hard, especially with
property boundaries, too,because sometimes they're fine
outside the home when they seedog but then if they see him on
the other side of that property,too, they want to guard it. I
know when we moved to ourcurrent property like four years
ago, you know, well, Bones she'snever really had too much of
guarding tendencies, not nothingtoo bad. Which is not unusual

(33:46):
for Quaker hundreds of bark youknow, when they see somebody or
something but they a wolf, therewas nothing more in this world
he enjoyed than guardingsomething you know, and he would
never guard things from us oranything like that you can take
a bully stick or take food henever guard things like that. He
likes to alert mark you knowthat he sees something out here
see something out there, hethinks he's done a it was a job

(34:08):
well done. So we had to teachnew behaviors, but it was so
hard because we went from a homeand a normal neighborhood with a
very small yard, typical LasVegas, the yards, like mostly
rock to and then we came to thisproperty that has like a horse
arena. And it's got like, allthis space, it's more perimeter
to guard. And so then we ourneighbors have like, you know,

(34:31):
horses, she chickens, dogs, youknow, and then on the other
side, like the road where likepeople will walk and stuff. So,
you know, he's always willing todo these perimeter checks. And
it almost got to be stressful.
It was like too much, you know,too much territory and too much
for him to keep track of. So wehad to do similar stuff where we
would go outside with him everysingle time. And we would teach

(34:52):
him like hey, yes, you noticethat and I'll turn and look at
mom and it's a predictor of atree, you know, because he was
seeing Horses heads looking overthe walls, and he would feel
threatened because they'relooking at him. Or if they have
a fly mask on, and he didn'tcare about horses, it's like
he's on his property. And hesees them looking at him, that
kind of changed things, or, youknow, when he would see like a

(35:15):
dog or person's head over thewall. And so we spent several
weeks working on that with him.
Every time he would seesomething or like, oh, good boy,
yes, you noticed it, you know,now you have to check it with
mom. So instead of noticing it,and charging at it and go on
crazy trying to tell it to goaway, we changed how he felt

(35:35):
about it, and then taught like anew behavior, like, Okay, check
in with mom let her know, like,hey, yeah, I noticed this, and
then go on about your business.
And it worked really well. Andfor me, it wasn't just getting
rid of the barking behavior.
Because you know, you don't wantto be the bad neighbor where
your dog is going crazy andwhatnot, I saw what
physiological toll it was takingon him, where he just constantly

(35:56):
wanted to go outside, becausehe's like, I gotta do this, you
know, like, there's, there'sthings going on, and I'm not on
top of it. And it was stressinghim out so much. You know,
because he felt like every timeto that he was outside, of
course, he would always noticesomething. And he just couldn't
let go of it and just be a dogexploring, like the other ones,
you know, just sniffing aroundor digging a hole or something

(36:19):
or, you know, running around.
Yeah, exactly. And so we got towhere he could, but we had to go
out every single time with alittle Ziploc baggie with some
kibbles are treats in it and,and work with them, but it
didn't take as long as you wouldthink, you know, it just was the
consistency of it just to changethat feeling because he felt

(36:39):
like this fear and stress. Youknow, it wasn't just he guarded
for purpose, but I think he alsowas dressed by these things are,
you know, teaching the newbehaviors. So eventually, he was
just like, Yeah, whatever. Youknow, he wasn't bothered by
something unless it was at ourfront door. So Right. Yeah.

Julie Jackson (36:58):
Well, I know it was Blue Heelers, one of the
things that they always kind ofwarn, especially new Blue Heeler
people is that they, most ofthem need a job. And oh, yeah,
if you don't give them a job,they will find a job and and
sometimes that job is takingyour couch apart or you don't
necessarily a job wasn't good.
And we kind of laughed becauseour Blue Heeler, Lil sorry, Lily

(37:23):
and Eleanor, they were sisters.
We lost Lily on Easter. So wehave so it's Eleanor, but
Eleanor has always been veryserious. And during COVID, I had
the opportunity to work fromhome more, and she would sit at
my desk with me every day. Andif I was on a call, and the

(37:44):
other dogs started getting loud,she would shut them down. And so
we started joking, even my boss,we all refer to her as the
office manager. And so still nowpeople refer to her as the OM.
It's like, what's the OM doing?
You know, but do feel a certainsense of responsibility. And I
could see how if he had this bigperimeter and all these sensory

(38:04):
things, he's like, You need tohire more staff. I can't do all
this by myself.

Unknown (38:11):
That's what that's exactly what it seemed like they
find these natural roles likethat when we move to the
property because he did not dothat at the previous one. But
um, yeah, it was just gotoverwhelming. That's so cute
about her.

Julie Jackson (38:24):
Yeah, she she would just be like, That's it.
We've had enough. But years ago,I lived on a larger piece of
land. And so we fenced in a yardfor the dogs that were so we
were on four acres. And so thedog yard part was just right off
the house. And it was smaller.
But the fence was kind ofchicken wire. So you could see
through it. It wasn't like aprivacy fence. And in our
neighbor that it was it had beenfarmland. And so the houses were

(38:49):
just kind of haphazardly. Theywere all like older houses that
were just kind of built whereverbefore there were any kind of
rules. And so our neighbor wouldalways come over and visit and
he would walk past the backfence area and walk around to
the front of our house. And wehad the sweetest little border
collie mix named Murphy. And Idon't know what had happened to

(39:11):
Murphy but but Murphy had, Idon't think been treated very
kindly before before he rescuedme. And but he was so sweet. And
our neighbor would get sotickled because if Murphy was
out in the yard whenever ourneighbor walked past the fence
the entire time, Murphy wasrunning barking at him just
vicious, you know, just guardingguarding. Yeah. And then our

(39:34):
neighbor would come in the frontdoor, we would let Murphy in the
back door and Murphy wouldimmediately run up to our
neighbor and set his like puthis chin on his leg and sit
there with his head in his lapthe whole time. Yeah, as
friends. And then when he wouldleave out the front door Murphy
would run out the back door andthe whole way across the fence.
He would snarl and bark and he'slike, Yeah, you know, and it's

(39:56):
so funny because he's like, Whatare you doing? We just spent the
whole evening together hangingout to work. This is my job. So
yes,

Unknown (40:08):
no, it's funny how like they they think about things
like that they have very clear,you know, ideas that their roles
and like where their property isand what they're supposed to do
about it. It's so cute. They'reso serious. They're very some of
them are very serious abouttheir work. Yeah. Especially
like a border collie. AndMurphy. Yeah.

Julie Jackson (40:29):
Yeah, he Yeah, he was so sweet. We always laughed
because we had him when ourdaughter was born. And it took
me a while to kind of figure itout. But, and I think I've told
the story before, but he did notshow a lot of interest in her.
He didn't like one way or theother. He almost seemed kind of
indifferent. He wasn't supercurious about her, you know, and

(40:50):
he wasn't, you know, like,aggressive towards or anything.
It was just kind of indifferent.
But then all of a sudden, oneday, I realized that every time
I go to look for him if Icouldn't find him, he was always
outside the door of whateverroom she was in.

Unknown (41:05):
Oh, yeah. So they didn't. He wasn't fawning over
her. He was doing a job.

Julie Jackson (41:13):
Yeah, yeah. And it's No, he wasn't like, it
wasn't an upset with her thingor like a What is she up to
thing. But if the door was open,he'd be in the threshold of that
room. But like if she was takingher nap, and I'd look around, I
couldn't find Murphy. I'd golook and he'd be laying outside.
You know, where no one, no onewas gonna get to her without

(41:34):
having without him knowingwithout getting past him for

Unknown (41:37):
his little clock. Yeah, all that is very precious. I
know. I've seen cases like thatbefore to where they're like,
Well, I just need to make sure Igot eyes on things, you know,
with this new little one. Yeah,they just kind

Julie Jackson (41:52):
of watch and I, I have often said, I'm not a good
dog trainer. But my dogs alwaysseem to be very effective.
People trainers sign reallyquickly. So those were things
that they weren't taught, youknow, they just kind of adopt
them. Once? No,

Unknown (42:12):
I always feel like there's a bit on each end. Like
we ended up changing our ways tolike, you know, mesh with them.
And then they ended up changingif the mesh with ours, you know,
just like any relationship, youknow, with people, there's
always compromise and give andtake.

Julie Jackson (42:26):
Yes, yeah. Yeah.
And hopefully we all come out ofit better for the

Unknown (42:31):
That's exactly right.
Yeah. Cuz I feel like, you know,no relationship with people is
like a one way street or a onealways is doing all the giving,
and all the compromise and gottabe a bit of both ways and can
clear communication andunderstanding. And I think it's
no different with animals. Youknow, I think there's been a lot
of this mentality before abouthow it's got to be militaristic

(42:52):
and very strict, and all thisobedience and stuff. And, you
know, that's not, that's no fun.
Nobody likes being treated likethat. And it's, it gets past the
idea of like, where they'resentient feeding beings that we
need to meet their needs, andthey do have all these different
needs. And each animal is sodifferent. And like, we're going

(43:12):
through that right now withbones, like, where her needs
have changed over time. Youknow, with her getting older.
And, you know, it's like youwant to if they really are a
family member, like that's thevery first thing you have to do
is figure out what what are whatare this dog's needs? And I
know, talking with you, you'vegone through that a lot with
your different dogs, and youhave such very different dogs,

(43:34):
each one of them, you know, eventhe two wolf mixes, like they're
very different. And

Julie Jackson (43:39):
yes, chuck in bar. Yeah, yes. Yeah. Yeah. And
like

Unknown (43:43):
my, they've all been like the same breed and stuff,
but they're very, verydifferent. And, you know, you
just have to treat them asindividuals, and then you know,
all the other stuff, like, wejust change things around, like,
you know, usually they'll sleepin bed with me, for example,
but, you know, sometimes Inoticed, hey, they don't really
want to be in there. So here'sanother spot that you can go and
you know, rest or, you know,during my appointments, like I

(44:05):
do some things over zoom, andthey like to be near me, but I
don't want them jumping on mychair or doing stuff like that
saying, hello. And so I havelittle spots, and I've kind of
trained them to be there. Andthey're it's close enough that
they feel happy. They feel likethey're part of the action, you
know, so it's compromise there.
They wouldn't be happy if theyweren't with me, but we found a
spot where everybody's happy.

(44:27):
You know? I feel like there's alot of that I'm like, you know,
it doesn't have to be my way orthe highway that's why I often
tell people and you're not goingto be as happy trying to make
that happen. I feel like there'sgot to be given take with stuff.
Yes,

Julie Jackson (44:43):
yeah, that's probably wise just in general
for everything. Yes.

Unknown (44:48):
makes things a lot easier. You know, like right now
Gilgamesh is just napping on abed here next to me bones is
over here napping and well saysthere to do in some We're time
in Las Vegas, so

Julie Jackson (45:02):
I know that's still pretty it's still a pretty
perfect thing even even when theweather's perfect to have them
all right, they're napping isnot a bad deal.

Unknown (45:09):
Oh yeah. I love it. I love having them near and they
like being close and so yeah,you know how it is guys seeing
your guys walking by too I loveYes

Julie Jackson (45:19):
I am. Okay, I'm going to turn and show you see
if we can get the seat you cansee the new one there. Can you
see oh my

Unknown (45:27):
oh I see but yours.
Yeah. Oh. Oh, so cute. She

Eileen (45:30):
sound asleep right now.
Hey, Darcy Darcy. Hi. Can yousay hi?

Unknown (45:36):
Adorable? Yeah, one of my friends got a dog from the
rescue group here a few yearsago. That's a healer Corgi mix.
And I've never seen one of thosebefore but she looks just like a
healer except she's got thoseshorty little legs. Yes. So you
Yeah, her name is Tito and sheis just bundles a fun and yeah,

(45:57):
what year a little Dorothy looksa lot like that.

Julie Jackson (46:00):
Yeah, they know and I don't know if they call
him this everywhere. But inTexas, there's breeders. I mean,
they're not recognized by butthey call them cowboy corgis?

Unknown (46:08):
Oh, did they breed them for like a specific job or
something? Like I use on theranches? I don't

Julie Jackson (46:14):
know, to tell you the truth. I don't know if it's
if it's more of a novelty thing.
Or if it is, I mean, they'resmart as a whip. And of course I
think Yeah. And, and very, Imean, she could work cattle, you
know?

Unknown (46:28):
Oh, I believe it. I think this girl Tayto my
friend's dog could work cattle.
And she definitely likes to knitpet stuff, you know, at your
ankles or things. You know,she's got derived or yes, yeah,
Darcy like that too.

Julie Jackson (46:42):
But she has not.
She will go after the boys likewhen the boys are wrestling. She
will she will go after and getin the big mix of it. But now
when Lily and Eleanor arehealers when they were little
they would heard and it wasfunny because Lily would nip and
Eleanor would push. So I if Iwas being herded. I didn't even

(47:02):
have to look. I knew who washurting me based on what they
did. Darcy hasn't tried to hurtpeople yet, but she got in there
and the flutes are a lot biggerthan her. But so I'm not sure if
if they breed them for that orif it's just if some people just
started doing it because therewas a demand. But

Unknown (47:24):
I was always really curious because up here like we
have a lot of people withranches so we see a lot of
healer Border Collie mixes.
Yeah, I think because like thehealers are a little sturdier
and hardier of dogs for the, youknow, some of the work that they
do. And they're, you know, thatcombination, like we see so much
of them and they just have suchdrive. But my friend's dog Tayto
she's just so smart. And I didsome agility with her and she

(47:48):
just, you know, was amazing atit and just so smart and driven
because we see a lot of healersand agility to Yeah, and but
she's got that working drive.
And so that makes sense. Iwonder if people do that for the
work or just because they lookreally neat or what it is.
Because yeah, they're, they'revery smart dogs. Well,

Julie Jackson (48:07):
and I have always thought they were just adorable.
I've loved both those breeds.
And so I was like, oh mygoodness, that's just perfect,
but I'm not ever going to I willrescue because I don't have a
need for a specific breed, youknow, environment where we need
the them to actually do a job.
So she showed up in one of theshelters and was pulled by a

(48:29):
rescue group and they weretrying to find an immediate they
found an immediate foster for areally fast and then we got her
a few weeks later, but she has alittle like her right paw is I
say before it's a deformity herpaw points in a 90 degree angle
out to the side instead ofstraight. So it's actually

(48:52):
pretty adorable though becauseit looks like she's in third
position ballet or kind of likeshe has her hand on her hip. You
know? They think that she mighthave been a breeder surrender or
dump because they couldn'tbecause I was really shocked to
see one in a shelter becausepeople usually buy them and so I

(49:15):
you know, I kind of wonder ifit's maybe that the breeder was
like well, we can't sell herbecause of this

Unknown (49:20):
little that's terrible.
It is I wouldn't even besurprised this is awful. Yeah, I
wish we had such regulations onthat kind of stuff. Because here
in the US it's just awful. Likemy youngest well well I got
bones actually from somebody whohad an oops litter and like they
just were getting rid of puppiesbest $20 I ever spent. Like when
we were milling, you knowmilitary couple, but Gilgamesh

(49:42):
you know, like I wanted specifictemperament and all this stuff,
but like where I got him andactually in France, they're only
allowed to have like up to twolitters per year. And to
register them they have to passall the He's socialization tests
and all these like restrictionsand they're actually very much

(50:04):
enforced to. So like over there,you don't have like the shelters
overrun, like they are here andlike because, well here in Las
Vegas, it's just crazy. Like,you know, you see all this
backyard breeding and there arerescue groups who go and follow
up on all these Craiglist adsand go and take pictures like
because they say hey, I'minterested in a puppy even
though they just want to go andtake pictures of the operations.

(50:25):
Yeah, but like we were notstaffed enough here locally that
the animal control officersactually follow up on all that
and shut these places down. Thiswas terrible because you see
stuff like that where you knowthese animals are just dumped
because they can't make moneysometimes dumping them in the
desert or puppies that are bredbut you know in these terrible

(50:46):
conditions these poor mothersit's just awful Yeah, yeah, but
the you know, then there's allthese people lined up ready to
pay for that and I'm like, don'tget don't support those people
don't support someone who's youknow, go to the show. Go to the
shelter. Yeah, I'm like oh ashelter if you're gonna spend
money on a puppy get one fromsomebody who's doing things
right and like you know, gettingall the health testing done you

(51:09):
know, having them in wonderfulconditions and doing all this go
and do one of those don't paysomebody who's like abusing the
mother and doing all that stufflike and you know, people are
like oh, well I can't afford youknow from a really good breeder
then go to the shelter. There'slike a lot of wonderful cops,
you know, some of them even tosometimes with the rescues, even
see your purebred if you likepurebred, I love like mixes

(51:32):
purebred all of them. You know,because even in dog sports, we
see a lot of these, like youwere saying those those mixes
like the certain designer onesthat are better than like the
purebred some of the sports likewe see these happy on border
collie mixes, you see, you know,the healer Border Collies, you
see all these deal with it mixesand, you know, if I just say,

(51:54):
you know, get the right dog foryour home, but to support people
who treat dogs, right?

Julie Jackson (52:00):
Yes, yes. And that's true. There are a lot of
rescues that are breed specific.
So you can go out there and likeon pet finder, you can put in a
breed. And they'll come youknow, 200 labs or golden
retrievers, or Yes, love healersor so. Yeah, yeah. Can even
still rescue a specific breed.

(52:20):
Yeah, absolutely.

Unknown (52:22):
I'm just like, please, please, please don't go on
Craigslist. Oh, yeah, no,because then people end up like
I say, when you do stuff likethat, you need to set aside the
money you would have spent, youknow, either going to a good
breeder or whatever, like onveterinary behavior spills or
health costs, because, you know,and no animal deserves to be

(52:42):
unhealthy or mentally, like,psychologically unwell. And, you
know, that's like, you don'toften see it when they're really
young, but you're going to seeit when they grow up. And so if
you're going to spend money onthat, like spend it on a pup
who, like you've gotten from arescue who needs some help?
Like, support that person? Youknow, who's doing that to those

(53:05):
animals? So, you know, I see itall the time. And it's so sad.
And I know you do too. Yeah, youjust want to help them all.

Julie Jackson (53:15):
I know, I wish we could. But hey, I mean, what do
you do that helps that helps somany of them and gives them such
a great quality of life. So Ijust I love that. Thank you so
much for sharing, I appreciate.
Is

Unknown (53:28):
that such a pleasure?
And yeah, thank you for all thatyou do to know. I just feel
like, the more like we can bringawareness, all these different
things, and that there is a lotof hope for this stuff. And that
you know, the way things arealways what they have to be.
Yes, yes. Will you have awonderful

Julie Jackson (53:47):
weekend and please come back? Oh, I would
love to Okay, let's do. That wasgreat. Thank you. Bye. Thank you
so much for joining me today. Iknow that you are busy, and I
really appreciate that you choseto spend some of your time with
me. So let's do a little bit ofbookkeeping before we head out.

(54:11):
If you enjoy this and you wouldlike to receive the episodes
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Please go visit the website.
It's really cute. It's got puppypictures. Also, I've got a free

(54:32):
gift for you over there if youwill go check it out. And if you
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(54:55):
all of them. That's where you'llsee pictures. Have the pups that
we talk about each week. Alsojust other fun pup things. I'm
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times, it's just us talking, butevery now and then there are
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(55:18):
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(55:39):
their stories and writing. Somepeople have gotten on the phone
and done a chat with me so wecan do whatever you are most
comfortable with. Finally, donot forget that you are as great
as your dog thinks you are andgo smoochy beach. Thanks, y'all.