December 10, 2024 • 47 mins
In this episode of Happy to Help, we dive into the essentials of building a thriving customer support team that’s both happy and productive! We sit down with special guest Suneet Bhatt, a leadership expert dedicated to helping people and organizations reach their full potential.
Suneet shares actionable insights from his “Happy, Proud, Not Yet Satisfied” workshop, offering powerful strategies for preventing burnout, encouraging personal growth, and empowering customer support teams to be their best. Learn why fostering empathy, promoting healthy work-life boundaries, and supporting personal well-being are crucial to long-term success for any support specialist.
Whether you’re a manager seeking ways to uplift your team or a customer support professional looking to create sustainable work habits, this episode will provide you with practical tips to build resilience, boost morale, and ensure your team feels truly supported.
We want to hear from you! Share your support stories and questions with us at happytohelp@buzzsprout.com!
To learn more about Buzzsprout visit Buzzsprout.com.
Thanks for listening!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Priscilla (00:00):
Welcome to Happy to Help, a podcast about customer
support from the people atBuzzsprout.
I'm your host, priscilla Brough.
It's time to focus on you All.
Remarkable customer supportcomes from a healthy and
supported customer support team.
So today we're discussing waysthat you can support your team
and look out for yourself whileserving your customers.
Thanks for joining us.
Let's get into it All right,jordan.
(00:23):
So today we have a very specialguest with us.
So Suneet Bhatt helps people andorganizations get unstuck, find
their purpose and reach theirpotential.
He works through his Find andInvolve your Purpose approach,
which he delivers throughworkshops, cohort-based work
groups and classes at RutgersUniversity and classes at
(00:46):
Rutgers University.
I first met Suneet about amonth ago a little over a month
ago at the Elevate CX conferencein Denver, where he did his
happy, proud, not yet satisfiedworkshop.
That's right, kate and I talkedabout it a little bit on one of
our episodes a couple episodesago.
Yeah, it was the one in October.
Yeah, yeah, it was such a greatworkshop, and so we really
wanted to have Suneet come on anepisode and talk about what it
(01:06):
means to support your supportteam and to support yourself as
a support specialist who isgoing to be offering support to
your customers, and so Suneethas had a varied career over the
years, but all of those rolesthat he's been through he's
focused on elevating thecustomer service team where he's
been, and so thanks for joiningus, Suneet, I'm really excited
(01:28):
to have you here.
Suneet (01:29):
Yeah, it is great to see you again.
That conference was great and Iloved your podcast and being a
fly on the wall during some ofthe recap of Happy, Proud, Not
Yet Satisfied.
It was very humbling to hear itand it's great to see you again
, yeah it's great to see youagain, yeah it's great to see
you.
Thanks for having me.
Priscilla (01:44):
So we kick off every episode with the question of who
has made your day recently?
We do this because, as supportprofessionals, we have the
ability to impact someone's dayfor the better every day when we
interact with customers, and soI always like to start off on a
positive note and to ask whohas made your day recently?
Suneet (02:03):
It is the easiest question to answer.
It is both of my kids.
Oh, I feel like we had, youknow, look school starting the
ups and downs of like then timechanges and everything that
happens.
Oh yeah, and they had last weekoff in Jersey.
It's like last week was Jerseyweek, where everyone, all the
(02:25):
schools, are off and the kids,you know, it's like election day
and service day and a varietyof things.
Priscilla (02:28):
Oh, that's great.
Suneet (02:29):
They just showed up and just crushed it.
The way they were taking careof people, the way they were
behaving, the way they weredoing their work, the way they
were taking care of, like, justus everything, their energy,
even when they would have atough moment, they were
resilient, recovering quick andlike they really just had a
moment.
(02:49):
And look, it's like all of us.
It's going to fall apart againwhen life happens.
And it's the ebbs and flows oflove with your kids, when you
see them take steps, blossom,take on new things, find new
(03:10):
ways forward.
It's just awesome and they'reamazing.
So when you sent me like sothat's the question I was like,
forget it.
Like this is, this is the one,and it's those two, anaya and
John, are the greatest.
Priscilla (03:23):
Oh, I love that.
Suneet (03:25):
That's.
Those two, anaya and John, arethe greatest.
Priscilla (03:26):
That's awesome.
I love that answer.
That's so sweet.
I don't have any kids, but itmakes me excited one day to have
kids, because that sounds sowonderful to just see them grow
and learn and accomplish things.
Jordan (03:34):
Yeah, when you get those like proud moments where you
see a reflection of all the workthat you've put into them and
you see a little sparkle, like alittle glimmer of all that hard
work paying off.
Oh man, it feels good, it does.
Suneet (03:45):
It's the best feeling.
It's the best feeling.
Priscilla (03:53):
Yeah, that's so much fun, so that kind of relates to
seeing your support teamaccomplish things and grow right
.
It's like they're kind of likeyou can see them as your kids
kind of in certain ways asyou're working with a team
that's growing and learning.
So typically with these episodeswe focus on a very tangible
like how to write a good emailor how to provide after-hours
support, something like that.
And so today we're taking alittle bit of a different
(04:13):
approach and we're going to stepback and focus on how to create
an environment for your teamwhere they feel supported and
encouraged and excited toprovide remarkable support to
your users.
I'm not a big flyer I don't flya lot but for the past couple of
months I've gone on a lot ofplanes.
I feel like I have flown more inthe last couple of months than
(04:34):
I have in years, and so I'veseen a lot of those like safety
you know demonstrations thatthey do and we've all heard the
put your own oxygen mask onbefore you put on the one for
your kids, because you will do abetter job of helping them once
you are in a place where you'regetting oxygen consistently.
And I think that that's such agood analogy for us as support
(04:57):
specialists, to be able to serveour users better when we are
able to be supported by thecompany we're in, by ourselves,
by our team members andcolleagues.
And so today we're going tohave Suneet talk with us about
ways that we can put that oxygenmask on ourselves before we
help our customers?
Yeah, but before we kind of getinto all of that Suneet, you
(05:19):
have a varied background which Ithink makes you uniquely
qualified to work with alldifferent types of people.
Can you share a little bitabout your experience over the
years, how you've interactedwith customer support in
different roles and just kind ofhow you landed where you are?
Suneet (05:35):
Yeah, I mean, look, I think my life is my great
experiment and that's how Istarted it right.
I started working at bigcompanies.
I did some amazing things atthe sort of dawn of the internet
and some really beautiful andpowerful things.
And then I saw the way bigcompanies work and how people at
some point are just a number.
Right, that's the way thesecompanies have to work.
And so I was like, all right,I'm never working at a big
(05:57):
company again, Went to businessschool, did social
entrepreneurship.
Then I was like, okay, I didsocial entrepreneurship.
Then I was like, okay, I reallywant to get into service.
So I did housing post Katrina,within subcontractor to the
government, did nonprofitmarketplaces and international
development, and I loved it.
But I also realized that Icouldn't empathize with the
(06:20):
amount of pain and challengethese human beings were dealing
with on the front lines in theUS A little bit easier to
understand than when I was doingmicrofinance work in India.
I was like the level of povertyI just can't empathize with.
And I think to do good work, youalways have to have empathy,
academic, sympathetic,empathetic.
You have to be empathetic to dogood work, otherwise it's just
(06:40):
work.
And so I was like, all right, Ineed some more credibility, I
need to find something local, Ineed more credibility.
So I did like private equitywork and venture capital work
and I learned a ton and, youknow, had some good events
happen in my life not, you know,life-changing, but
life-sustaining moments thatwere powerful and ultimately I
found my way back into aconvergence of all those things.
Where I was president boardchair at a BPO lost their
(07:04):
biggest customer, covid hit.
They asked me to come on aspresident and we were able to
take that business go from 2,200people.
Whoa.
Yeah, 2,200 people in about 20months.
What I love is we were able todo that by increasing employee
satisfaction and becoming theworld's largest B Corp certified
BPO that was amazing, becomingthe world's largest B Corp
(07:26):
certified BPO.
That was amazing.
And in that journey, a coupleof things were true all the way
across, which is I alwaysbelieved that the best work
happened when people opted intothe work.
And so people believed in thework, understood the work,
understood themselves and optedinto the work.
And more and more I feltcompanies getting clearer on
what the job description was andpeople getting less clear on
(07:47):
what their value and purpose was.
And so I found myself spendingmore time with my teams.
My last company 1,100 people,1,200 people, 1,100 people
reported to me and I think ifyou were to ask most of those
folks, they would tell you inworking in our team, they
learned a lot about themselvesand therefore what was best for
themselves and what they woulddo best.
And that's kind of the arc ofthe career of where I am now,
(08:09):
which is, you know, when thatcompany hit a crossroads, a
couple of the leadership teamleft and I said I just want to
throw myself into helping peoplein organizations, just do their
best work, like, get unstuck,find their purpose, reach their
potential.
I'm not a doctor, I'm not ateacher, I'm not a nurse, I'm
not a police officer, I'm not afireman, like I'm none of those
(08:30):
things.
The most important thing Imight do outside of my family is
create environments wherepeople spend time at work
professionally and feelfulfilled and that carries over
to the rest of their lives.
That's like the best thing Icould do.
Priscilla (08:43):
Yeah, yeah, and that's so powerful to do that
Like.
No, it's not a doctor or afirefighter, but it's so
powerful because it touches somany people and so much of our
lives are spent working.
Suneet (08:57):
And.
Priscilla (08:58):
I mean, I had a conversation with someone just a
couple days ago about how shewas just really disliking her
work.
And you know, every day she'sgoing to the office and she's
spending eight hours there andshe's coming home and she is
dreading it the next day andthat's just not a way to live
your hours.
So many of our hours are spentdoing work at our jobs, and so
(09:20):
if you're impacting people in away that's allowing them to
enjoy that part of their lifemore, that's such a huge,
powerful impact just on theworld, because it's so much of
our time.
Suneet (09:32):
Can I double click on that?
I think you just said somethingthat's really important and
that's part of the reframeexercise that I think all of us
need to go through.
So you just said, hey, you weretalking to somebody and they're
doing this work eight hours aday and they're not happy at the
work.
They don't like the work thatthey're doing.
What's amazing is the number ofpeople I talk to or spend time
with who start with that sameassumption.
(09:54):
And then when you ask them like, okay, talk to me about your
experience, what are you doingdaily, what matters to you?
And you zone out from themoment of work and you just step
back and say let's talk aboutall the stuff that matters to
you, that's really important toyou, that makes you feel good,
that makes you smile, fills yourchest with pride, let's talk
about all those things.
And when they put those glassesback on and they look through
(10:18):
the lens of the stuff thatmatters to them, the number of
times people realize there's alot about my work that I really
like it's amazing to me thatpeople get caught in this loop
and they tell themselves theworst possible story, hardwired
for negativity.
It's a lot of the research thatI share, but it's amazing that
we don't take the time to lockin the moments of progress and
(10:40):
happiness and, as a result ofthat, we just gloss over them
and ski right past them and thenwe feel like we're in these
really challenging places.
That's the first part, and thesecond part is we create single
points of failure.
So, like you asked me aquestion and maybe you were like
Suneet, you were supposed totalk about something in a
customer service environmentthat made your day, but in my
(11:03):
head I'm like I'm a supercomplex formula for my life and
right now the joy I'm getting isfrom my kids and I have to let
that find its way into the restof my life.
If I have a complex enoughformula, a variable enough
formula about who I am and whatI'm about, then if something
goes wrong in one place, it'sjust one light in the entire
(11:26):
strand of you know Christmaslights right, it's.
It doesn't the rest of the, therest of the lights you're still
on, it's just a bulb I have tochange.
And so, like I love theconversation with people, the
number of times we have thatreframe and they say, oh, my God
, you know what I am doing.
A lot of things I like.
It's this one thing I don'tlike, but what the job enables
(11:47):
me to do is all these otherthings I like and that reduces
the anxiety around the challengeand it makes it a mountain they
can climb.
It's like everything I standfor right now is right there,
what we just talked about.
Priscilla (12:00):
Yeah, I love that.
So when we were at Elevate, itwas clear to me when I met you
there that you have just apassion for people.
You care about people deeplyand you care about customer
support specialists deeply.
So I kind of wanted to ask youa little bit what is it about
customer support specifically,or people who work in customer
support, that you feel sostrongly about helping them be
(12:21):
unstuck?
Suneet (12:22):
I mean I did not come up with this.
The head of support when Iworked at Help Scout told me
this.
So when I was head of revenue,head of growth at Help Scout,
the individual that ran customersupport there she was great and
she said these words when Itook over the team because the
team was kind of like I think itwas like under product and
operations and I was like weneed to get this as like voice
of the customer.
It should be top of the funneland bottom, not just sort of
(12:44):
bottom and like triage and she'slike Smee.
If you want to understand whata company really stands for,
don't buy their product, don'tinvest in their stock.
Call their support team.
Wow.
And like you will know what theyreally value.
If those people are equipped toserve you and answer your
question and they have aplaybook and they get back to
(13:05):
you and they close Great.
If you have the best product butit goes into a general inbox
and you don't, there's no queuefor assignment and follow up,
like you know what the companyvalues and you know how healthy
they are and whether or notthey're going to survive Right,
and so I think that, from abusiness line standpoint, is
really important.
(13:25):
I think what I always lovedabout my customer service,
customer support teams and I'vedone success in sales, I think
everything customer facing butat the end of the day, these are
people who are hardwired totackle problems.
These are people who arehardwired to solve a problem.
These are people who are sointrinsically motivated to be
(13:46):
helpful.
I just love to say it's likejust be aggressively helpful and
I think these are the mostvaluable, the highest ROI
investment and change you canmake as an organization is to
elevate support, because it's sounderfunded, I think at this
point, it's so under-equipped, Ithink at this point.
But they are literally talkingto customers all the time.
(14:07):
And I think to move the needle.
Engaging with support was superimportant.
I love the people, the problemsolver.
There's a lot of differentpersonas when it comes to folks
in support.
It's not monolithic, but at theend of the day, they're all
intrinsically motivated to beproblem solvers and it's an
underserved population withinthe organization and I just at
the end of the day, believe like, why are you here?
(14:28):
Why is your product here?
It is for a customer.
The best and fastest way to getthat feedback is through the
lens of the people serving them.
Obsessed over that point ofinteraction, everything else
will make a ton of sense and Ithink that requires a commitment
to being wrong, to humility, togetting the truth, all of those
things that I value.
I don't think there's any teamthat stands more for what's the
(14:51):
truth is customer service.
Look, as a salesperson.
You're on the front line of thefunnel.
I've done sales like you have adifferent responsibility, right
?
You're setting an aspiration.
You know I don't buy into thesalespeople or, you know, like
all those myths about them, Ithink they're selling an
aspiration because they wantpeople to buy high, right, like,
aim high and raise themselvesto that expectations.
But customer service people arejust the truth, like.
(15:12):
At the end of the day, they'rejust dealing with the truth and
the reality and that there'ssomething so beautiful about the
truth.
Right, the truth is undefeated,like it wins all the time, and
nobody is, I guess, a bettershepherd for the truth than our
service teams.
Priscilla (15:26):
That's really great.
I also love aggressivelyhelpful.
I really like that too.
Will you walk us through yourhappy, proud, not yet satisfied
workshop?
Yeah, not the whole workshopnecessarily, but how you came up
with it and how it impacts thepeople that you work with?
Suneet (15:41):
I've been doing it for a long time and then during COVID
, I had to codify it because Ihad to really apply it at scale
to people I was meeting throughZoom, so I had to put it on
slides so they could followalong and do this exercise.
But I've been doing it with myteams for a long time in some
format and it always startedwith the fundamental premise is
when you do a review, when youset a New Year's resolution,
(16:03):
anytime you set out to create alist of things that you need to
do, we always start with theto-do list.
We just jump in and say this isall the stuff that I have to do
, and I'm a firm believer that.
Look, the research shows humanbeings are hardwired for
negativity.
Negativity bias is real, it's aprotection instinct.
But as we become fullyfunctioning human beings, it
(16:23):
actually is counterproductivebecause you start with the
negative and physiologically,like two to two and a half times
, your body overreacts to thenegative than to the positive.
And so how do you literallycombat that before you start
with the negative?
You don't want to build a listfrom a position of fear or
scarcity.
You want to build it from anabundance mindset and with
(16:44):
momentum of fear or scarcity.
You want to build it from anabundance mindset and with
momentum, and so how could Icreate momentum against that
list, that to-do list?
This is what our team wants todo next year.
This is what our company wantsto do next year.
This is what I want to do nextyear, whatever it is, I do it
with my kids every day.
We do, happy, proud andsatisfied every day.
You want to give people momentum, and so the fundamental premise
is therefore no-transcript bitmore complex, because you really
(17:31):
want people to go deep andspend time on it.
Only five minutes on each ofthese questions, though, and
then you, sarah, what are thethings that made you proud?
Which is like what are thethings on one end is, what are
the things where you felt yourconfidence grow?
You did something, and you feltyour confidence grow, so it's
still not about theaccomplishment.
I want to focus on the energy.
Like outcomes be damned.
(17:52):
We don't control outcomes.
We only control inputs right andso where did you feel your
confidence grow If you didn'tachieve it?
Where did you feel better aboutyourself?
And on the other side is whathappened around you, and you
were there and a part of it.
I want you to take credit forthings you're a part of.
We tend to exceed credit.
I want you to take credit soyou feel good about this.
Now imagine again putting thoseglasses on.
(18:12):
You have a lens of like theseare all the things that made me
happy.
These are all the things thatmade me proud.
It's on the tip of your tongue.
What kind of a to-do list doyou think you're going to build
now?
It is going to be a bigger list, a longer list, a richer list
and a more meaningful list,Because you're coming at it,
looking at the world, freshlyreminded of, like, what filled
(18:35):
your cup.
You know what filled yourconfidence, and now you have
this list and it's so muchbetter.
And then, when you finish thelist, have this list and it's so
much better.
And then, when you finish thelist, you feel like you have
energy and momentum to achieveit, as opposed to starting at
the base of the hill, having torun up a mountain with no
running.
Start Like it's about momentum,and then it just becomes if you
(18:57):
practice it, it becomes thistight little flywheel.
So, like I'll do it with mykids in the morning, I'll be
like what's the one thing thatmade you happy yesterday, it's
one thing that made you proudyesterday, and I don't say not
yet satisfied.
I say what's the one thing youwant to do today to make sure
you have a good day?
And my son's like he got introuble for talking in class
yesterday, so he's like I'mgoing to try and not talk in
class today.
I so like those are the kinds ofthings that happen, but it's
(19:19):
about momentum and I think itacknowledges the fact that.
Look, if you're in customerservice especially, all you hear
is what is broken and what iswrong.
If you ask that.
That's why, you know, when Iwould run product teams and I
(19:39):
would go to support, I wouldhave to help them reframe the
positive, because they wouldgive me all the stuff that was
broken, not all the stuff thatneeded to be fixed and not all
the stuff that needed to bedifferent.
And so I had to reframe themand then ask for their feedback
so they could pick their headsup and give me the best feedback
that we would ever get.
But if we didn't reframe, a lotof product managers used to say
(20:02):
, like, well, if you talk tosupporters, can you get all this
stuff that's broken?
I'm like that's because that'swhat they deal with every day
and you haven't given them anyspace to tell you anything
different.
Right, give them space.
And so I think that is thepremise of happy, proud, not yet
satisfied is to build apersonal flywheel, build some
personal momentum and avoidburnout.
If you're in a job, it's veryunlikely that you hate all of it
(20:26):
and it's very unlikely that youhate everything around it.
And so if you explode thatformula and look at it as a
bunch of different variables,you're going to find some things
that are happy.
You're going to find somethings that you're proud of.
Maybe it's 10%, but those arestill places to plant your feet,
those are still footholds toplant your feet, and we all have
(20:46):
those.
We just don't take the time todocument them.
And the last part, and so youmight remember this, but the
hardest one for people is proud,like proud is the hardest one.
Priscilla (20:55):
Yeah.
Suneet (20:56):
And so I used to do that , and then sometimes the
conversation would just getstuck.
So I added a slide, which issee yourself through the eyes of
someone who loves you.
Like, if you can't see yourselfas proud, look through your
kids, your parents, your bestfriend, whoever it might be, but
see yourself through the eyesof someone who loves you.
There's a lot to be proud of.
(21:16):
What would they say for you?
What would they want you to sayfor yourself?
It gives people a bit of anunlock and it's like and that's
it, it's 15 minutes right, it'snot a long and lengthy exercise,
but it's so good.
Priscilla (21:30):
Yeah, that's profound .
That last thing you just saidabout seeing yourself through
the eyes of someone who lovesyou, that was a huge moment, at
least for me, when we're, youknow, sitting in that room.
Yeah, I just got a little weepythere for a second.
It's hard.
It's hard sometimes when you'resitting there trying to kind of
especially for people who workin support, who are so often
used to helping other people andpointing out to other people
(21:52):
and not pointing towardthemselves to hear OK, what,
what are you proud of?
What make you proud?
A lot of times, when you'rethinking about the things about
your product that you're proudof, you're like oh well, the
developers created this reallycool tool, or there was this
really cool marketing initiative.
It's hard sometimes to think,oh, the support we offer is the
(22:15):
thing that makes me proud.
And so, thinking about it froman outsider, looking at you, who
loves you, and I think that's areally powerful tool that we
can just use every day whenwe're thinking about ourselves,
because we all have thesenegative self-talk in our head
and if you think about yourselfthrough the lens of someone who
loves you, I think that's really, really powerful.
Suneet (22:33):
There's some video and I'm too old for TikTok they
won't even let me on Right, butthere's a.
There's some video that I'veseen a couple of times and it's
some mom who's like eating pizzaand her kids are off to the
side.
She's like my kids are eatingpizza because I'm a terrible mom
.
And then she flashes over toher kids and her kids like no,
you're not, take it back yeahyou're say I'm a great mom,
(22:56):
you're a great mom.
And the mom's just like, oh mygod, like so she's telling
herself this story, yeah, of howshe stinks as a mom.
And and then her kids are like,don't you dare say that about
my mom?
Like those are the eyes youneed to find and look through
Like that's what you need tofind.
Priscilla (23:12):
And we, as support leaders, have the ability to be
those eyes for the people on ourteam Right.
So when people on your team arefeeling that burnout or feeling
like, oh my goodness, I just gotanother bad rating from this
user.
We have the ability to be thoseeyes and say, hey, the bad
rating does not define the levelof your work there.
(23:34):
That is not the definition.
We need to go and look at thework and figure out where it
stands.
But that is not the definitionof what is good and what is bad.
That is not the definition ofwhat is good and what is bad,
and so I think it's importantthat we remember that when we're
trying to build these healthyenvironments for people to work
and thrive in, that we can bethat view that people don't see
when they're thinking aboutthemselves and that negative
(23:55):
talk is coming up Exactly.
Suneet (23:56):
Oh yeah.
Priscilla (23:57):
I think support specialists are unique because
we spend our days thinking aboutother people and actively
helping people all day, everyday.
That is the focus, and so it'srare that we think about
ourselves.
And I think it's natural thatyou end up with people on your
support team who are kind of thepeople pleasers, who are just
they're totally okay withstaying out of the limelight or
(24:21):
being in the shadows andpointing to other people, which
can be really heavy when you'redoing it every day, especially
when you're working withhundreds of people every day and
you're constantly thinkingabout how to make their day
better.
And so, as leaders, you knowit's our job to make sure that
we're creating theseenvironments where our support
teams feel supported and healthyso that they are able to go
(24:44):
with vigor and excitement tohelp people because they feel
that kind of support from us.
And I think it's easy to ignorethe impact that a healthy work
environment or an unhealthy workenvironment can have on your
customers.
So the environment that yourcustomer support team is working
in has a direct impact on howyour customers are having in
(25:04):
their interactions and theirexperiences.
So can you talk a little bitabout what you have seen about
how the health of the customersupport team directly correlates
with the customer's experience.
Suneet (25:15):
I don't think it's terribly complicated, right.
Priscilla (25:17):
I mean.
Suneet (25:18):
I think if your support team doesn't feel supported,
your customer is not going to besupported, and that's really it
.
And some companies will makethat the cost of doing business,
which is we're going to hiresomeone.
They're going to burn out in,you know, like 12 to 18 months,
and we will.
We're going to limit the amountof scope that these folks have
the authority to do.
We're going to make it highlytransactional, and those are the
(25:38):
places that you know youprobably don't want to work in
or you probably don't want tobuy from.
If it's a considered purchase,you probably don't want to buy
it, and so the health of everyemployee is just what matters.
And I think if you take care ofyour people, people take care
of your customers and everythingelse will take care of itself.
But you have to live it.
And I think it goes back tothat academic, sympathetic,
(26:00):
empathetic which is.
Some people may be willing tothrow more resources or more
money at customer service andsupport teams.
They'll be like, yeah, investin a better tool or we'll get
you an operations person, orwhatever it might be.
But the companies that reallyget it and the support teams
that really feel heard are theones where the company and the
(26:20):
leadership team spends time onthe front lines, and I think
that was something I always did.
I would always.
You know I've spent more thanmy fair share of time on
Valentine's Day and Mother's Daylike serving, you know, some
extraordinary specialtyretailers, you know, and being
in the weeds and, I think,having to do that stuff.
And then when you pick yourhead up, you realize that it's
(26:41):
about way more than justthrowing money and incentives at
these people.
How do you motivate themintrinsically?
You have to empathize with them.
And then the second thing ishow do you elevate their voice
and make faith for their voice?
So, feet at the table.
You know, one of the thingsthat I was most probably proud
of was, you know, at Help Scout.
(27:02):
In my 18 months there, we tookcustomer service from, sort of
you know, one level all the wayup to reporting to the CEO,
right, and I know that I drewthat straight line and stepped
it up, sort of, and made thecase along the way, and when I
left, the customer support teamwas represented at the executive
(27:22):
table, and so you got to kindof do it both ways.
You have to be willing to gospend time on the front lines
and you got to bring them backinto the boardroom and know that
they're heard all the waythrough.
But the best support is justempathy and understanding,
because then you're going tostart crafting leave plans.
So I took over the sort of thedelivery team at the BPO 1,100
(27:44):
people right and people were nottaking vacation.
I remember, because I took overjust before the Christmas
holiday, my direct reports andmy team and some of the and just
going like talking to everybodyand I remember people being
like I'm burned out heading intothe holiday.
I haven't been able to take anyvacation.
I don't know if I'm going to beable to do it again.
And I was like, okay, I heardyou over the course of the next
(28:07):
year.
My primary operating metric ofthe top three operating metrics
one of them for that team wasyou need to make sure that
nobody has gone more than 20days without taking a vacation.
So I want PTO as a managementKPI and if you're a manager and
your team is not taking PTO,then that's going to go against
(28:29):
your performance rating.
You create that performancerating.
It happened and I remember thething that, like the words that
still I loved hearing, were thenumber of people who came to me
before Christmas saying I'm like, how do you feel now?
And they were like I feel reallyrefreshed, I feel like I'm
going to enjoy my vacation.
And I was like, oh my God,because it wasn't just about the
(28:51):
KPI of like take the time, itwas, you have to make sure they
are covered and performancedoesn't slip.
And so the managers had to bedeliberate about planning PTO.
They had to make sure there wascoverage, and so when the
person stepped away, theyactually stepped away and like
that flywheel was beautiful.
And I remember thoseconversations for my team
(29:12):
because that was a survey I ranwhen I first took over the team
12 months later, and that wasone where everyone was like we
just feel better, I feel like Ican take vacation, yeah, and
that was like it.
And so that's like the supportthat you provide, your support
team right.
Priscilla (29:26):
Yeah, I remember at previous jobs where the feeling
was, yeah, you've got this PTO,but no one actually wants you to
take this time off, and sothere's always a little bit of
like this vibe of you know, youreally shouldn't take this time
off.
And when I started working withBuzzsprout, I think I had been
here a month and one of theco-founders sat down with me and
(29:47):
said hey, you know, you haven'tput any PTO on the calendar.
You really you should do that.
And I thought I've been here amonth, what do you mean?
And it was so refreshing tohave someone care about me
enough to say you need a breakand actually do it and not just
say, oh, we really want you totake your PTO, but actually sit
down and say hey, I need you togo put some PTO on the calendar.
I need you to figure out whatyou're going to do and when
(30:08):
you're going to take a break,because it is more important to
me that you are healthy and thatyou feel empowered and excited
about your work than that youburn out and are gone in a year
because you didn't ever takecare of yourself.
Yeah, yeah, and so hearing that, I think that's so.
It's such a tangible thing.
But it's so important toencourage the people on your
team to take PTO, and you saidit when you're managing a
(30:31):
support team, it's hard to pushpeople to take PTO, because what
that means is that someone elseis covering that work.
You know, if you're working ina different role, it might be
easier to kind of push the workoff and get to it when you come
back, but with support itdoesn't stop, and so someone
else is going to cover it whileyou're gone.
And so for those of us peoplepleasers who don't like to make
(30:54):
other people do anything for us,it can be really hard to take
ETO.
And so you, as the leader, haveto be intentional about pushing
people to do that, because it'smore important that people have
that balance and that they'reable to be healthy and have a
healthy work environment, ahealthy mindset to avoid burnout
.
But even just work where youfeel stressed all the time or
(31:15):
you're wishing you could go andyou see other people taking PTO,
but the support team nevertakes PTO.
So I think that's a really goodexample of a way that we as
leaders can support our team andI like that you built it into
the responsibility of themanager.
Suneet (31:29):
Oh yeah, and what's neat is, look, the managers would
say, well, what you did was youforced them to realize that
there was an answer to theproblem?
So the manager, you know, inmany cases they're like look,
there's uptime and downtime.
I can look at ticket volume, Ican look at call volume, I can
look at chat volume.
Like I know, there are timeswhere things are quiet and times
where things are heavy.
So let's analyze that and let'spick the time where things are
(31:51):
low.
That's one option.
If there's never a downtime,right, then there's just an
expectation management issue orprioritization issue which is,
hey, there's never downtime, sothree weeks from now we're going
to have this person off.
Give us your prioritization ofissues.
We're going to let customersknow that we have a service
outage or downtime for this day.
So you set expectations, youmanage the queue, you do
(32:13):
everything.
So there's always, outside of atrue disaster, which we've all
experienced, and exceptionalcircumstances, there's an answer
.
And what the best part is thatthese exceptional times, that's
when people tend to be at theirkindest anyway, right, so like
that's like you have to play tothe natural ebbs and flows of
the space that the world givesyou.
(32:34):
And space exists, Like it alwaysexists.
You just have to setexpectations.
You have to be clear, you haveto prioritize or you have to
wait for the downtime.
Priscilla (32:51):
But there's always space.
There's always space.
I love that.
One of the things that we cando as support leaders to help
have healthy environments forour teams is by giving them
strategies that we've found overthe years to help us do better
work and to protect ourselvesand our mindset and things like
that.
And one of the things you knowthat we have to do you've
mentioned, as supportspecialists is we are
empathizing with people.
That is such a big part of ourwork is that we are finding ways
(33:14):
to empathize with our customers, and you wrote a really
beautiful article that I readrecently about how empathy can
become a self-imposed burden.
Oh, wow, yeah, and I'm going toread just a little part of it.
So you wrote empathy has beenovercomplicated to the point of
feeling heavy.
If we get back to empathy beingabout the feeling that's
created between people, notabout the solutions that are
(33:37):
provided to people, people willfeel less anxious about being
empathetic.
I thought it was a really coolway to look at it that empathy
doesn't have to be this hugeburden that we're carrying,
because as support specialists.
It can feel like that sometimes.
And so I thought it would becool.
Will you share with us just alittle bit more about your
opinion on that and how we canuse that in support to help
(33:58):
lighten that load a little bit?
Suneet (34:00):
Yeah, wow, I don't write a lot.
I wrote that one and I use itin my class at Rutgers, so it
was like it serves a purpose andI think your tie to support is
really important.
And the origin of that articlewas I was doing a coaching
session with this executive of alarge agency and he was having
this challenge with an employee.
(34:21):
And so it's like how do Ireconcile this challenge with
this employee?
And so just kind of avoidingthe conversation and not wanting
to find the solution.
And we got to this place whereI was like when you go to
someone with a problem, what'syour expectation?
On the other side?
And he's like well, I justsometimes just want them to hear
(34:41):
me out.
I just got to talk it out, likethat's kind of what I would do.
I'm like so how come, whensomebody comes to you with a
problem, you think you'resupposed to give them an answer
and carry it around with you forthe rest of your life?
I was like what would you do ifyou knew that every time you
asked somebody for help, theyfelt like they had to solve it
and then they carried yourburden around with them for the
rest of their lives?
How would you feel?
And he's like I would neverexpect them to do that.
(35:02):
So why do you think they expectyou to do that?
And so that's the first part ofthe exchange.
And then the second thing islike, how do you channel?
And part of empathy is liketeaching people how to put
things down, like you can holdit for that whole conversation,
but it's not about you, right?
It's just not about you.
So put it down and like, emptyyour backpack and then get on
(35:23):
with the next thing, andsometimes you have to be
deliberate about that.
You have to make a decision,and a choice, which is I just
get a lot of things said to me.
This is my process for emptyingmy backpack.
It's not about me, this is mymantra, this is what I'm going
to say, but I think that's thebig challenge and I think
overall and this is what I talkabout in my class one of the
(35:48):
reasons that anxiety is so highis because, generation by
generation, we're pushingempathy, but we're not teaching
people what to do.
Once they've been empathetic,and so everyone is more
empathetic.
This generation in collegeright now is more empathetic
than we are.
They're smarter than we are.
They're more diverse.
They are amazing.
There are all these amazingthings, but nobody.
They're more anxious becausenobody's taught them.
We've taught people to beempathetic, but not how to
(36:10):
channel that empathy, and that'swhy I got this push.
There's a lot of research ofshifting from empathy to
compassion, which is empathyplus action, and the action can
be anything from solve theproblem to put the problem back
down to whatever it is.
But when you do empathy, if youdon't add an action on the end
of it, then it's just a burden.
It just becomes a burden, right.
Priscilla (36:30):
Yeah, and then by the end of the day you're just
completely drained becauseyou're carrying all of these
questions that you've beenhelping people with throughout
the day and you have to find away to put that down and move on
, because if you don't, you'regoing to burn out very quickly.
If you can't, yeah.
So what strategies would yourecommend to someone who maybe
(36:50):
they're leading a support team?
Maybe they're leading a companyand they have a support team
that works for them and they'retrying to find ways to set up
that environment better to servethe support team, so that
support team is healthier andbetter equipped to serve the
support team, so that supportteam is healthier and better
equipped to serve the customers.
What advice would you give them?
Suneet (37:06):
Look, I think the thing that, as a leader, helps me the
most and I am a big fan of whatI'm about to share it's a
one-on-one framework, which ishow do you engage with all your
direct reports?
And the premise is reallysimple and it works in.
Like any environment and anycontext and any dynamic, it
feels hokey, so there'sresistance to it.
(37:29):
When people embrace it, it'sreally powerful and I think
you'll see why at the end.
It's a 25 minute agenda.
There's 10 minutes.
10 minutes and five minutes.
It's three questions.
You can guess by now that I lovethe rule of three, right?
And the first question isbasically you have clients
internal, external.
What do they need to be happy,healthy or successful?
And just write that down.
(37:50):
So what are your clients?
What do they need to be happy,healthy and successful?
Awesome, great.
You have team members on yourteam, vendors, partners.
You have a team, you have adefinition of a team.
What do they need to be happy,healthy and successful?
And it's very important.
Happy is a backdrop, healthy islike I feel good, and
successful is thriving, right.
(38:10):
So they can be at differentstages.
Some clients can be unhealthy.
I can't worry about themsucceeding.
I just got to get them healthy?
Like how do you sort of migratepeople through that workflow?
And I think this is reallyimportant for so many people.
As you saw with the Happy ProudNight and Satisfied exercise,
people are not ready to talkabout themselves.
Yeah.
So if they come to a one-on-oneand they're coming with all
(38:33):
these responsibilities I gotthis stuff to do for my team, I
got these clients to work with,I got these partners, I got
these people internally they'retelling them all that and you
say, hey, how are you doing?
They're not going to answer thequestion, they're not going to
answer it thoughtfully.
But if you let them empty alltheir burdens about the people
(38:53):
they serve clients, internal orexternal right If you let them
empty all the burdens of thepeople they work with this
person needs this, I need thisto work with this person, et
cetera and then they're like not, like all right, cool, you good
.
Everything, anything else youwant to talk about, and they're
like nope.
And you're like all right, good, Now tell me about you.
What do you need to be happy,healthy and successful?
And what's amazing is, if youdo that in 25 minutes, you will
(39:17):
have the richest understandingand shared common ground with
that, with that team member.
And they will have given youtheir to-do list that you need
to pick up, and you will have aclear understanding of how
they're actually doing and wherethey need your help.
You do this in 25 minutes.
It's the most effectiveone-on-one agenda you can ever
have and, if you do it right,they fill it out before you look
(39:39):
at it and you can actuallyspend the full 25 minutes just
on them, and so I thinkeverything we do is in.
You know, there used to be thisbook called the worst case
scenario handbook.
It was this thing they used togive out, like 25 years ago,
what to do if you get attackedby a shark.
Like all these things, the onethat like stuck out to me was
what do you do if you're in anavalanche?
Right, and right now we are allin an avalanche.
(40:03):
Right and right now we are allin an avalanche, yeah, and the
first thing they told you to dowas put your hands by your face
and push out and create a pocketof air and some space to
breathe so you can think aboutwhat to do next.
We are all in an avalancheright now at work, socially,
doesn't matter, and so the bestthing we can do for people is
(40:23):
guide them to put their hands attheir face, push out and create
space to breathe, and thenthink about what really needs to
get done.
And so that's what, like aone-on-one structure will do.
Is it just like, if you followit thoughtfully, you're just
continue to create space, butnot empty space where they feel
anxiety.
You create space with astructure and expectation within
it so they can just show up andbe themselves.
(40:46):
If you're like, hey, I'm goingto give you 25 minutes to talk
about you, people are going tofeel anxious.
But if you say, hey, I want toknow what makes you happy or
healthy, how can I make yousuccessful?
These are your three pumps.
You've got five minutes, likego for it.
And then you do this every week, every two weeks.
The rhythm is there.
They just come in ready to talk.
It just becomes an easierformat and structure for them to
operate against.
So, like that's something Ireally, really I believe in
(41:09):
almost as much as like happy,proud and satisfied is like
important and that approach to aone-on-one.
There are a lot of people whosay I'm going to let the
employee define the one-on-oneframework.
You can't see the label fromthe inside of the jar, like I
don't think that's the rightmove.
Sure, sometimes there's stuffyou want to talk about, bring it
to the table, like all thatstuff is great, I get it.
(41:30):
But I think putting that kindof pressure on the employee,
you've just outsourced anotherburden.
You just like.
That's not what you're therefor.
You're there to removeobstacles and make their life
easier, give them structurewithin through which to see
their work, help them pick theirheads up and think about their
work differently, and you're notgoing to do that by putting
another thing on their plate.
Priscilla (41:50):
Yeah, what you just said is so powerful that you're
there to make it easier for them.
That's your role.
You're there to removeroadblocks and to make it easier
for them, especially in acustomer support world and that
system.
You are there to make it so forthem, especially in a customer
support world and that system.
You are there to make it sothat they can serve your
customers, your users, better,and so thank you for coming and
talking through this with us.
(42:10):
It was really great to have youhere and to talk about it, and
I hope that anyone listening whois working in customer support
whether you're a specialist orwhether you're running a team it
is important to take care ofyourself and the customers get
the benefit right, but reallyit's for you you are.
The most important thing in thissituation is that you have a
healthy work environment andthat enables you to offer better
(42:32):
service.
But the reality is you need tomake sure that you're in a
healthy spot, and so if that'scommunicating with your manager
what it is that you need, thenthat's great, and if it's as the
manager looking out for andbeing intentional about how your
specialists are working and howtheir work environment is, then
that's what needs to happen.
Or if you're the CEO and you'relooking at your support team
(42:54):
and you're encouraging them totake PTO because you see that
they're not doing that.
All of these things are reallyimportant to foster this
environment of just healthyservice for your support team.
So thank you for coming on andtalking through that with us,
Suneet.
So, before we jump into ourSupport in Real Life segment,
can you tell our listeners alittle bit about where they can
(43:15):
find you and how they can learnmore about the work that you do?
Suneet (43:18):
Yeah, I would say the best place is either LinkedIn so
Suneet got on LinkedIn or mywebsite, which is called my
Authentic Story.
Those are the two places tofind me and to get a hold of me.
Priscilla (43:31):
Awesome, and we'll link all of that in the show
notes for this episode.
Now it's time for Support inReal Life, our segment where we
discuss real life supportexperiences and questions.
I actually have a question forSuneet today.
Ooh, so I was on your websiteand I saw a review of your work
that I'm going to read.
So it said the way Suneeteffortlessly combines wisdom and
(43:54):
empathy has not only inspiredme, but also ignited a burning
desire to pay it forward andshare this remarkable gift with
others.
So ignited a burning desire topay it forward and share this
remarkable gift with others.
Danit's innate ability toconnect with people from all
walks of life is unparalleled,making every interaction an
enriching and transformativeexperience.
First of all, that's just likean amazing quote to have on your
(44:14):
website, but the thing thatreally stuck out to me was that
it is such a necessary tool tohave in our toolbox as support
specialists the ability toconnect with people of all
different varieties, becauseyou're working with people that
you don't know their wholebackgrounds, and so it's clear
that you do it really well.
Can you share a little bit withus about how you connect with
(44:37):
people, like what strategiespeople can use to help connect
with all different types ofpeople through customer support.
Suneet (44:43):
That's a great question.
I think the thing that I lovedoing and therefore spend a lot
of time doing and doing well isI just love listening to people
talk, tell their story, and thenI love when people feel really
heard.
So I love playing it back tothem.
I've always done it and I loveplaying it back to them in a way
(45:05):
where they feel it sounds evenmore positive and flattering
like for them.
So I tell people when we have aconversation, I want you to
feel like you were in one ofthose old school 80s like house
of crazy mirrors and I want youto feel like you're looking in
the best and most flatteringmirror you've ever looked in.
When we talk, so like that'swhat I love to do for people,
(45:28):
right Is?
I just want to do that and Ithink in customer service, I
think the most important thingfor you to do is be really
honest about your strengths andyour values.
What are you really good at?
How do you thrive?
And then show up that wayauthentically and verbalize it,
which is, if you're a problemsolver, say, hey look, I get
energy from solving problems, soif you're going to bring me a
(45:48):
problem, my instinct is going tobe to start solving this.
If I'm not listening to youcorrectly, just let me know.
Know I'm doing that because I'mexcited to help you Like
verbalize it, tell people, sodon't mask it, don't hide it,
don't run from it, own it, knowit and own it and then
communicate it so that way youcan set expectations in the
context of that conversation.
So nothing is there.
So I think, just like, listen,listen, listen, listen.
(46:11):
Like really well, with no bias,try and play back what you've
heard as a baseline, reallyauthentically and ideally frame
it in a way that they feel goodfor having articulated it.
Do you think anybody feels goodcalling support and complaining
?
Like nobody wants to do that.
And so if they call and you sayI heard you and oh, my goodness
(46:33):
, what a smart perspective, whata great point of view, if you
make them feel good for sharing,that's the first.
Hear them, make them feel goodfor sharing, and's the first.
Hear them, make them feel goodfor sharing.
And then the third part is talkto them about how you are going
to approach the solution, howit works for you and gives you
energy, so they feel it'sauthentically.
You Like those are three waysto do, I think support service
(46:56):
conversation like really reallywell.
Jordan (47:00):
Thank you for answering that those are great tips Really
is I'm thinking about usingsome of those on my family too.
I'm excited.
Suneet (47:08):
Yeah, it's.
It's so good to be able to tellpeople what you're like, what
your natural instinct is, andfor you'd be like you know what?
I just want to solve thisproblem.
Is that what you want right now?
And they'll say nope, andyou're like, great, I'm going to
be quiet.
Yeah, that's, that's a lifelesson there.
Priscilla (47:23):
That's so good.
So if you have a question or asupport situation that you would
like us to discuss, you canemail us at happy to help at
buzzsproutcom, or text the showusing the link in our episode
show notes.
You may hear your questiondiscussed on a future episode.
Thanks a lot, Suneet, for beinghere.
It was great to see you againand I hope to talk again in the
future.
Thanks everyone for listening.
(47:44):
Now go and make someone's day.
Welcome to Happy to Help, a podcast about customer
support from the people atBuzzsprout.
I'm your host, priscilla Brough.
It's time to focus on you All.
Remarkable customer supportcomes from a healthy and
supported customer support team.
So today we're discussing waysthat you can support your team
and look out for yourself whileserving your customers.
Thanks for joining us.
Let's get into it All right,jordan.
(00:23):
So today we have a very specialguest with us.
So Suneet Bhatt helps people andorganizations get unstuck, find
their purpose and reach theirpotential.
He works through his Find andInvolve your Purpose approach,
which he delivers throughworkshops, cohort-based work
groups and classes at RutgersUniversity and classes at
(00:46):
Rutgers University.
I first met Suneet about amonth ago a little over a month
ago at the Elevate CX conferencein Denver, where he did his
happy, proud, not yet satisfiedworkshop.
That's right, kate and I talkedabout it a little bit on one of
our episodes a couple episodesago.
Yeah, it was the one in October.
Yeah, yeah, it was such a greatworkshop, and so we really
wanted to have Suneet come on anepisode and talk about what it
(01:06):
means to support your supportteam and to support yourself as
a support specialist who isgoing to be offering support to
your customers, and so Suneethas had a varied career over the
years, but all of those rolesthat he's been through he's
focused on elevating thecustomer service team where he's
been, and so thanks for joiningus, Suneet, I'm really excited
(01:28):
to have you here.
Suneet (01:29):
Yeah, it is great to see you again.
That conference was great and Iloved your podcast and being a
fly on the wall during some ofthe recap of Happy, Proud, Not
Yet Satisfied.
It was very humbling to hear itand it's great to see you again
, yeah it's great to see youagain, yeah it's great to see
you.
Thanks for having me.
Priscilla (01:44):
So we kick off every episode with the question of who
has made your day recently?
We do this because, as supportprofessionals, we have the
ability to impact someone's dayfor the better every day when we
interact with customers, and soI always like to start off on a
positive note and to ask whohas made your day recently?
Suneet (02:03):
It is the easiest question to answer.
It is both of my kids.
Oh, I feel like we had, youknow, look school starting the
ups and downs of like then timechanges and everything that
happens.
Oh yeah, and they had last weekoff in Jersey.
It's like last week was Jerseyweek, where everyone, all the
(02:25):
schools, are off and the kids,you know, it's like election day
and service day and a varietyof things.
Priscilla (02:28):
Oh, that's great.
Suneet (02:29):
They just showed up and just crushed it.
The way they were taking careof people, the way they were
behaving, the way they weredoing their work, the way they
were taking care of, like, justus everything, their energy,
even when they would have atough moment, they were
resilient, recovering quick andlike they really just had a
moment.
(02:49):
And look, it's like all of us.
It's going to fall apart againwhen life happens.
And it's the ebbs and flows oflove with your kids, when you
see them take steps, blossom,take on new things, find new
(03:10):
ways forward.
It's just awesome and they'reamazing.
So when you sent me like sothat's the question I was like,
forget it.
Like this is, this is the one,and it's those two, anaya and
John, are the greatest.
Priscilla (03:23):
Oh, I love that.
Suneet (03:25):
That's.
Those two, anaya and John, arethe greatest.
Priscilla (03:26):
That's awesome.
I love that answer.
That's so sweet.
I don't have any kids, but itmakes me excited one day to have
kids, because that sounds sowonderful to just see them grow
and learn and accomplish things.
Jordan (03:34):
Yeah, when you get those like proud moments where you
see a reflection of all the workthat you've put into them and
you see a little sparkle, like alittle glimmer of all that hard
work paying off.
Oh man, it feels good, it does.
Suneet (03:45):
It's the best feeling.
It's the best feeling.
Priscilla (03:53):
Yeah, that's so much fun, so that kind of relates to
seeing your support teamaccomplish things and grow right
.
It's like they're kind of likeyou can see them as your kids
kind of in certain ways asyou're working with a team
that's growing and learning.
So typically with these episodeswe focus on a very tangible
like how to write a good emailor how to provide after-hours
support, something like that.
And so today we're taking alittle bit of a different
(04:13):
approach and we're going to stepback and focus on how to create
an environment for your teamwhere they feel supported and
encouraged and excited toprovide remarkable support to
your users.
I'm not a big flyer I don't flya lot but for the past couple of
months I've gone on a lot ofplanes.
I feel like I have flown more inthe last couple of months than
(04:34):
I have in years, and so I'veseen a lot of those like safety
you know demonstrations thatthey do and we've all heard the
put your own oxygen mask onbefore you put on the one for
your kids, because you will do abetter job of helping them once
you are in a place where you'regetting oxygen consistently.
And I think that that's such agood analogy for us as support
(04:57):
specialists, to be able to serveour users better when we are
able to be supported by thecompany we're in, by ourselves,
by our team members andcolleagues.
And so today we're going tohave Suneet talk with us about
ways that we can put that oxygenmask on ourselves before we
help our customers?
Yeah, but before we kind of getinto all of that Suneet, you
(05:19):
have a varied background which Ithink makes you uniquely
qualified to work with alldifferent types of people.
Can you share a little bitabout your experience over the
years, how you've interactedwith customer support in
different roles and just kind ofhow you landed where you are?
Suneet (05:35):
Yeah, I mean, look, I think my life is my great
experiment and that's how Istarted it right.
I started working at bigcompanies.
I did some amazing things atthe sort of dawn of the internet
and some really beautiful andpowerful things.
And then I saw the way bigcompanies work and how people at
some point are just a number.
Right, that's the way thesecompanies have to work.
And so I was like, all right,I'm never working at a big
(05:57):
company again, Went to businessschool, did social
entrepreneurship.
Then I was like, okay, I didsocial entrepreneurship.
Then I was like, okay, I reallywant to get into service.
So I did housing post Katrina,within subcontractor to the
government, did nonprofitmarketplaces and international
development, and I loved it.
But I also realized that Icouldn't empathize with the
(06:20):
amount of pain and challengethese human beings were dealing
with on the front lines in theUS A little bit easier to
understand than when I was doingmicrofinance work in India.
I was like the level of povertyI just can't empathize with.
And I think to do good work, youalways have to have empathy,
academic, sympathetic,empathetic.
You have to be empathetic to dogood work, otherwise it's just
(06:40):
work.
And so I was like, all right, Ineed some more credibility, I
need to find something local, Ineed more credibility.
So I did like private equitywork and venture capital work
and I learned a ton and, youknow, had some good events
happen in my life not, you know,life-changing, but
life-sustaining moments thatwere powerful and ultimately I
found my way back into aconvergence of all those things.
Where I was president boardchair at a BPO lost their
(07:04):
biggest customer, covid hit.
They asked me to come on aspresident and we were able to
take that business go from 2,200people.
Whoa.
Yeah, 2,200 people in about 20months.
What I love is we were able todo that by increasing employee
satisfaction and becoming theworld's largest B Corp certified
BPO that was amazing, becomingthe world's largest B Corp
(07:26):
certified BPO.
That was amazing.
And in that journey, a coupleof things were true all the way
across, which is I alwaysbelieved that the best work
happened when people opted intothe work.
And so people believed in thework, understood the work,
understood themselves and optedinto the work.
And more and more I feltcompanies getting clearer on
what the job description was andpeople getting less clear on
(07:47):
what their value and purpose was.
And so I found myself spendingmore time with my teams.
My last company 1,100 people,1,200 people, 1,100 people
reported to me and I think ifyou were to ask most of those
folks, they would tell you inworking in our team, they
learned a lot about themselvesand therefore what was best for
themselves and what they woulddo best.
And that's kind of the arc ofthe career of where I am now,
(08:09):
which is, you know, when thatcompany hit a crossroads, a
couple of the leadership teamleft and I said I just want to
throw myself into helping peoplein organizations, just do their
best work, like, get unstuck,find their purpose, reach their
potential.
I'm not a doctor, I'm not ateacher, I'm not a nurse, I'm
not a police officer, I'm not afireman, like I'm none of those
(08:30):
things.
The most important thing Imight do outside of my family is
create environments wherepeople spend time at work
professionally and feelfulfilled and that carries over
to the rest of their lives.
That's like the best thing Icould do.
Priscilla (08:43):
Yeah, yeah, and that's so powerful to do that
Like.
No, it's not a doctor or afirefighter, but it's so
powerful because it touches somany people and so much of our
lives are spent working.
Suneet (08:57):
And.
Priscilla (08:58):
I mean, I had a conversation with someone just a
couple days ago about how shewas just really disliking her
work.
And you know, every day she'sgoing to the office and she's
spending eight hours there andshe's coming home and she is
dreading it the next day andthat's just not a way to live
your hours.
So many of our hours are spentdoing work at our jobs, and so
(09:20):
if you're impacting people in away that's allowing them to
enjoy that part of their lifemore, that's such a huge,
powerful impact just on theworld, because it's so much of
our time.
Suneet (09:32):
Can I double click on that?
I think you just said somethingthat's really important and
that's part of the reframeexercise that I think all of us
need to go through.
So you just said, hey, you weretalking to somebody and they're
doing this work eight hours aday and they're not happy at the
work.
They don't like the work thatthey're doing.
What's amazing is the number ofpeople I talk to or spend time
with who start with that sameassumption.
(09:54):
And then when you ask them like, okay, talk to me about your
experience, what are you doingdaily, what matters to you?
And you zone out from themoment of work and you just step
back and say let's talk aboutall the stuff that matters to
you, that's really important toyou, that makes you feel good,
that makes you smile, fills yourchest with pride, let's talk
about all those things.
And when they put those glassesback on and they look through
(10:18):
the lens of the stuff thatmatters to them, the number of
times people realize there's alot about my work that I really
like it's amazing to me thatpeople get caught in this loop
and they tell themselves theworst possible story, hardwired
for negativity.
It's a lot of the research thatI share, but it's amazing that
we don't take the time to lockin the moments of progress and
(10:40):
happiness and, as a result ofthat, we just gloss over them
and ski right past them and thenwe feel like we're in these
really challenging places.
That's the first part, and thesecond part is we create single
points of failure.
So, like you asked me aquestion and maybe you were like
Suneet, you were supposed totalk about something in a
customer service environmentthat made your day, but in my
(11:03):
head I'm like I'm a supercomplex formula for my life and
right now the joy I'm getting isfrom my kids and I have to let
that find its way into the restof my life.
If I have a complex enoughformula, a variable enough
formula about who I am and whatI'm about, then if something
goes wrong in one place, it'sjust one light in the entire
(11:26):
strand of you know Christmaslights right, it's.
It doesn't the rest of the, therest of the lights you're still
on, it's just a bulb I have tochange.
And so, like I love theconversation with people, the
number of times we have thatreframe and they say, oh, my God
, you know what I am doing.
A lot of things I like.
It's this one thing I don'tlike, but what the job enables
(11:47):
me to do is all these otherthings I like and that reduces
the anxiety around the challengeand it makes it a mountain they
can climb.
It's like everything I standfor right now is right there,
what we just talked about.
Priscilla (12:00):
Yeah, I love that.
So when we were at Elevate, itwas clear to me when I met you
there that you have just apassion for people.
You care about people deeplyand you care about customer
support specialists deeply.
So I kind of wanted to ask youa little bit what is it about
customer support specifically,or people who work in customer
support, that you feel sostrongly about helping them be
(12:21):
unstuck?
Suneet (12:22):
I mean I did not come up with this.
The head of support when Iworked at Help Scout told me
this.
So when I was head of revenue,head of growth at Help Scout,
the individual that ran customersupport there she was great and
she said these words when Itook over the team because the
team was kind of like I think itwas like under product and
operations and I was like weneed to get this as like voice
of the customer.
It should be top of the funneland bottom, not just sort of
(12:44):
bottom and like triage and she'slike Smee.
If you want to understand whata company really stands for,
don't buy their product, don'tinvest in their stock.
Call their support team.
Wow.
And like you will know what theyreally value.
If those people are equipped toserve you and answer your
question and they have aplaybook and they get back to
(13:05):
you and they close Great.
If you have the best product butit goes into a general inbox
and you don't, there's no queuefor assignment and follow up,
like you know what the companyvalues and you know how healthy
they are and whether or notthey're going to survive Right,
and so I think that, from abusiness line standpoint, is
really important.
(13:25):
I think what I always lovedabout my customer service,
customer support teams and I'vedone success in sales, I think
everything customer facing butat the end of the day, these are
people who are hardwired totackle problems.
These are people who arehardwired to solve a problem.
These are people who are sointrinsically motivated to be
(13:46):
helpful.
I just love to say it's likejust be aggressively helpful and
I think these are the mostvaluable, the highest ROI
investment and change you canmake as an organization is to
elevate support, because it's sounderfunded, I think at this
point, it's so under-equipped, Ithink at this point.
But they are literally talkingto customers all the time.
(14:07):
And I think to move the needle.
Engaging with support was superimportant.
I love the people, the problemsolver.
There's a lot of differentpersonas when it comes to folks
in support.
It's not monolithic, but at theend of the day, they're all
intrinsically motivated to beproblem solvers and it's an
underserved population withinthe organization and I just at
the end of the day, believe like, why are you here?
(14:28):
Why is your product here?
It is for a customer.
The best and fastest way to getthat feedback is through the
lens of the people serving them.
Obsessed over that point ofinteraction, everything else
will make a ton of sense and Ithink that requires a commitment
to being wrong, to humility, togetting the truth, all of those
things that I value.
I don't think there's any teamthat stands more for what's the
(14:51):
truth is customer service.
Look, as a salesperson.
You're on the front line of thefunnel.
I've done sales like you have adifferent responsibility, right
?
You're setting an aspiration.
You know I don't buy into thesalespeople or, you know, like
all those myths about them, Ithink they're selling an
aspiration because they wantpeople to buy high, right, like,
aim high and raise themselvesto that expectations.
But customer service people arejust the truth, like.
(15:12):
At the end of the day, they'rejust dealing with the truth and
the reality and that there'ssomething so beautiful about the
truth.
Right, the truth is undefeated,like it wins all the time, and
nobody is, I guess, a bettershepherd for the truth than our
service teams.
Priscilla (15:26):
That's really great.
I also love aggressivelyhelpful.
I really like that too.
Will you walk us through yourhappy, proud, not yet satisfied
workshop?
Yeah, not the whole workshopnecessarily, but how you came up
with it and how it impacts thepeople that you work with?
Suneet (15:41):
I've been doing it for a long time and then during COVID
, I had to codify it because Ihad to really apply it at scale
to people I was meeting throughZoom, so I had to put it on
slides so they could followalong and do this exercise.
But I've been doing it with myteams for a long time in some
format and it always startedwith the fundamental premise is
when you do a review, when youset a New Year's resolution,
(16:03):
anytime you set out to create alist of things that you need to
do, we always start with theto-do list.
We just jump in and say this isall the stuff that I have to do
, and I'm a firm believer that.
Look, the research shows humanbeings are hardwired for
negativity.
Negativity bias is real, it's aprotection instinct.
But as we become fullyfunctioning human beings, it
(16:23):
actually is counterproductivebecause you start with the
negative and physiologically,like two to two and a half times
, your body overreacts to thenegative than to the positive.
And so how do you literallycombat that before you start
with the negative?
You don't want to build a listfrom a position of fear or
scarcity.
You want to build it from anabundance mindset and with
(16:44):
momentum of fear or scarcity.
You want to build it from anabundance mindset and with
momentum, and so how could Icreate momentum against that
list, that to-do list?
This is what our team wants todo next year.
This is what our company wantsto do next year.
This is what I want to do nextyear, whatever it is, I do it
with my kids every day.
We do, happy, proud andsatisfied every day.
You want to give people momentum, and so the fundamental premise
is therefore no-transcript bitmore complex, because you really
(17:31):
want people to go deep andspend time on it.
Only five minutes on each ofthese questions, though, and
then you, sarah, what are thethings that made you proud?
Which is like what are thethings on one end is, what are
the things where you felt yourconfidence grow?
You did something, and you feltyour confidence grow, so it's
still not about theaccomplishment.
I want to focus on the energy.
Like outcomes be damned.
(17:52):
We don't control outcomes.
We only control inputs right andso where did you feel your
confidence grow If you didn'tachieve it?
Where did you feel better aboutyourself?
And on the other side is whathappened around you, and you
were there and a part of it.
I want you to take credit forthings you're a part of.
We tend to exceed credit.
I want you to take credit soyou feel good about this.
Now imagine again putting thoseglasses on.
(18:12):
You have a lens of like theseare all the things that made me
happy.
These are all the things thatmade me proud.
It's on the tip of your tongue.
What kind of a to-do list doyou think you're going to build
now?
It is going to be a bigger list, a longer list, a richer list
and a more meaningful list,Because you're coming at it,
looking at the world, freshlyreminded of, like, what filled
(18:35):
your cup.
You know what filled yourconfidence, and now you have
this list and it's so muchbetter.
And then, when you finish thelist, have this list and it's so
much better.
And then, when you finish thelist, you feel like you have
energy and momentum to achieveit, as opposed to starting at
the base of the hill, having torun up a mountain with no
running.
Start Like it's about momentum,and then it just becomes if you
(18:57):
practice it, it becomes thistight little flywheel.
So, like I'll do it with mykids in the morning, I'll be
like what's the one thing thatmade you happy yesterday, it's
one thing that made you proudyesterday, and I don't say not
yet satisfied.
I say what's the one thing youwant to do today to make sure
you have a good day?
And my son's like he got introuble for talking in class
yesterday, so he's like I'mgoing to try and not talk in
class today.
I so like those are the kinds ofthings that happen, but it's
(19:19):
about momentum and I think itacknowledges the fact that.
Look, if you're in customerservice especially, all you hear
is what is broken and what iswrong.
If you ask that.
That's why, you know, when Iwould run product teams and I
(19:39):
would go to support, I wouldhave to help them reframe the
positive, because they wouldgive me all the stuff that was
broken, not all the stuff thatneeded to be fixed and not all
the stuff that needed to bedifferent.
And so I had to reframe themand then ask for their feedback
so they could pick their headsup and give me the best feedback
that we would ever get.
But if we didn't reframe, a lotof product managers used to say
(20:02):
, like, well, if you talk tosupporters, can you get all this
stuff that's broken?
I'm like that's because that'swhat they deal with every day
and you haven't given them anyspace to tell you anything
different.
Right, give them space.
And so I think that is thepremise of happy, proud, not yet
satisfied is to build apersonal flywheel, build some
personal momentum and avoidburnout.
If you're in a job, it's veryunlikely that you hate all of it
(20:26):
and it's very unlikely that youhate everything around it.
And so if you explode thatformula and look at it as a
bunch of different variables,you're going to find some things
that are happy.
You're going to find somethings that you're proud of.
Maybe it's 10%, but those arestill places to plant your feet,
those are still footholds toplant your feet, and we all have
(20:46):
those.
We just don't take the time todocument them.
And the last part, and so youmight remember this, but the
hardest one for people is proud,like proud is the hardest one.
Priscilla (20:55):
Yeah.
Suneet (20:56):
And so I used to do that , and then sometimes the
conversation would just getstuck.
So I added a slide, which issee yourself through the eyes of
someone who loves you.
Like, if you can't see yourselfas proud, look through your
kids, your parents, your bestfriend, whoever it might be, but
see yourself through the eyesof someone who loves you.
There's a lot to be proud of.
(21:16):
What would they say for you?
What would they want you to sayfor yourself?
It gives people a bit of anunlock and it's like and that's
it, it's 15 minutes right, it'snot a long and lengthy exercise,
but it's so good.
Priscilla (21:30):
Yeah, that's profound .
That last thing you just saidabout seeing yourself through
the eyes of someone who lovesyou, that was a huge moment, at
least for me, when we're, youknow, sitting in that room.
Yeah, I just got a little weepythere for a second.
It's hard.
It's hard sometimes when you'resitting there trying to kind of
especially for people who workin support, who are so often
used to helping other people andpointing out to other people
(21:52):
and not pointing towardthemselves to hear OK, what,
what are you proud of?
What make you proud?
A lot of times, when you'rethinking about the things about
your product that you're proudof, you're like oh well, the
developers created this reallycool tool, or there was this
really cool marketing initiative.
It's hard sometimes to think,oh, the support we offer is the
(22:15):
thing that makes me proud.
And so, thinking about it froman outsider, looking at you, who
loves you, and I think that's areally powerful tool that we
can just use every day whenwe're thinking about ourselves,
because we all have thesenegative self-talk in our head
and if you think about yourselfthrough the lens of someone who
loves you, I think that's really, really powerful.
Suneet (22:33):
There's some video and I'm too old for TikTok they
won't even let me on Right, butthere's a.
There's some video that I'veseen a couple of times and it's
some mom who's like eating pizzaand her kids are off to the
side.
She's like my kids are eatingpizza because I'm a terrible mom
.
And then she flashes over toher kids and her kids like no,
you're not, take it back yeahyou're say I'm a great mom,
(22:56):
you're a great mom.
And the mom's just like, oh mygod, like so she's telling
herself this story, yeah, of howshe stinks as a mom.
And and then her kids are like,don't you dare say that about
my mom?
Like those are the eyes youneed to find and look through
Like that's what you need tofind.
Priscilla (23:12):
And we, as support leaders, have the ability to be
those eyes for the people on ourteam Right.
So when people on your team arefeeling that burnout or feeling
like, oh my goodness, I just gotanother bad rating from this
user.
We have the ability to be thoseeyes and say, hey, the bad
rating does not define the levelof your work there.
(23:34):
That is not the definition.
We need to go and look at thework and figure out where it
stands.
But that is not the definitionof what is good and what is bad.
That is not the definition ofwhat is good and what is bad,
and so I think it's importantthat we remember that when we're
trying to build these healthyenvironments for people to work
and thrive in, that we can bethat view that people don't see
when they're thinking aboutthemselves and that negative
(23:55):
talk is coming up Exactly.
Suneet (23:56):
Oh yeah.
Priscilla (23:57):
I think support specialists are unique because
we spend our days thinking aboutother people and actively
helping people all day, everyday.
That is the focus, and so it'srare that we think about
ourselves.
And I think it's natural thatyou end up with people on your
support team who are kind of thepeople pleasers, who are just
they're totally okay withstaying out of the limelight or
(24:21):
being in the shadows andpointing to other people, which
can be really heavy when you'redoing it every day, especially
when you're working withhundreds of people every day and
you're constantly thinkingabout how to make their day
better.
And so, as leaders, you knowit's our job to make sure that
we're creating theseenvironments where our support
teams feel supported and healthyso that they are able to go
(24:44):
with vigor and excitement tohelp people because they feel
that kind of support from us.
And I think it's easy to ignorethe impact that a healthy work
environment or an unhealthy workenvironment can have on your
customers.
So the environment that yourcustomer support team is working
in has a direct impact on howyour customers are having in
(25:04):
their interactions and theirexperiences.
So can you talk a little bitabout what you have seen about
how the health of the customersupport team directly correlates
with the customer's experience.
Suneet (25:15):
I don't think it's terribly complicated, right.
Priscilla (25:17):
I mean.
Suneet (25:18):
I think if your support team doesn't feel supported,
your customer is not going to besupported, and that's really it
.
And some companies will makethat the cost of doing business,
which is we're going to hiresomeone.
They're going to burn out in,you know, like 12 to 18 months,
and we will.
We're going to limit the amountof scope that these folks have
the authority to do.
We're going to make it highlytransactional, and those are the
(25:38):
places that you know youprobably don't want to work in
or you probably don't want tobuy from.
If it's a considered purchase,you probably don't want to buy
it, and so the health of everyemployee is just what matters.
And I think if you take care ofyour people, people take care
of your customers and everythingelse will take care of itself.
But you have to live it.
And I think it goes back tothat academic, sympathetic,
(26:00):
empathetic which is.
Some people may be willing tothrow more resources or more
money at customer service andsupport teams.
They'll be like, yeah, investin a better tool or we'll get
you an operations person, orwhatever it might be.
But the companies that reallyget it and the support teams
that really feel heard are theones where the company and the
(26:20):
leadership team spends time onthe front lines, and I think
that was something I always did.
I would always.
You know I've spent more thanmy fair share of time on
Valentine's Day and Mother's Daylike serving, you know, some
extraordinary specialtyretailers, you know, and being
in the weeds and, I think,having to do that stuff.
And then when you pick yourhead up, you realize that it's
(26:41):
about way more than justthrowing money and incentives at
these people.
How do you motivate themintrinsically?
You have to empathize with them.
And then the second thing ishow do you elevate their voice
and make faith for their voice?
So, feet at the table.
You know, one of the thingsthat I was most probably proud
of was, you know, at Help Scout.
(27:02):
In my 18 months there, we tookcustomer service from, sort of
you know, one level all the wayup to reporting to the CEO,
right, and I know that I drewthat straight line and stepped
it up, sort of, and made thecase along the way, and when I
left, the customer support teamwas represented at the executive
(27:22):
table, and so you got to kindof do it both ways.
You have to be willing to gospend time on the front lines
and you got to bring them backinto the boardroom and know that
they're heard all the waythrough.
But the best support is justempathy and understanding,
because then you're going tostart crafting leave plans.
So I took over the sort of thedelivery team at the BPO 1,100
(27:44):
people right and people were nottaking vacation.
I remember, because I took overjust before the Christmas
holiday, my direct reports andmy team and some of the and just
going like talking to everybodyand I remember people being
like I'm burned out heading intothe holiday.
I haven't been able to take anyvacation.
I don't know if I'm going to beable to do it again.
And I was like, okay, I heardyou over the course of the next
(28:07):
year.
My primary operating metric ofthe top three operating metrics
one of them for that team wasyou need to make sure that
nobody has gone more than 20days without taking a vacation.
So I want PTO as a managementKPI and if you're a manager and
your team is not taking PTO,then that's going to go against
(28:29):
your performance rating.
You create that performancerating.
It happened and I remember thething that, like the words that
still I loved hearing, were thenumber of people who came to me
before Christmas saying I'm like, how do you feel now?
And they were like I feel reallyrefreshed, I feel like I'm
going to enjoy my vacation.
And I was like, oh my God,because it wasn't just about the
(28:51):
KPI of like take the time, itwas, you have to make sure they
are covered and performancedoesn't slip.
And so the managers had to bedeliberate about planning PTO.
They had to make sure there wascoverage, and so when the
person stepped away, theyactually stepped away and like
that flywheel was beautiful.
And I remember thoseconversations for my team
(29:12):
because that was a survey I ranwhen I first took over the team
12 months later, and that wasone where everyone was like we
just feel better, I feel like Ican take vacation, yeah, and
that was like it.
And so that's like the supportthat you provide, your support
team right.
Priscilla (29:26):
Yeah, I remember at previous jobs where the feeling
was, yeah, you've got this PTO,but no one actually wants you to
take this time off, and sothere's always a little bit of
like this vibe of you know, youreally shouldn't take this time
off.
And when I started working withBuzzsprout, I think I had been
here a month and one of theco-founders sat down with me and
(29:47):
said hey, you know, you haven'tput any PTO on the calendar.
You really you should do that.
And I thought I've been here amonth, what do you mean?
And it was so refreshing tohave someone care about me
enough to say you need a breakand actually do it and not just
say, oh, we really want you totake your PTO, but actually sit
down and say hey, I need you togo put some PTO on the calendar.
I need you to figure out whatyou're going to do and when
(30:08):
you're going to take a break,because it is more important to
me that you are healthy and thatyou feel empowered and excited
about your work than that youburn out and are gone in a year
because you didn't ever takecare of yourself.
Yeah, yeah, and so hearing that, I think that's so.
It's such a tangible thing.
But it's so important toencourage the people on your
team to take PTO, and you saidit when you're managing a
(30:31):
support team, it's hard to pushpeople to take PTO, because what
that means is that someone elseis covering that work.
You know, if you're working ina different role, it might be
easier to kind of push the workoff and get to it when you come
back, but with support itdoesn't stop, and so someone
else is going to cover it whileyou're gone.
And so for those of us peoplepleasers who don't like to make
(30:54):
other people do anything for us,it can be really hard to take
ETO.
And so you, as the leader, haveto be intentional about pushing
people to do that, because it'smore important that people have
that balance and that they'reable to be healthy and have a
healthy work environment, ahealthy mindset to avoid burnout
.
But even just work where youfeel stressed all the time or
(31:15):
you're wishing you could go andyou see other people taking PTO,
but the support team nevertakes PTO.
So I think that's a really goodexample of a way that we as
leaders can support our team andI like that you built it into
the responsibility of themanager.
Suneet (31:29):
Oh yeah, and what's neat is, look, the managers would
say, well, what you did was youforced them to realize that
there was an answer to theproblem?
So the manager, you know, inmany cases they're like look,
there's uptime and downtime.
I can look at ticket volume, Ican look at call volume, I can
look at chat volume.
Like I know, there are timeswhere things are quiet and times
where things are heavy.
So let's analyze that and let'spick the time where things are
(31:51):
low.
That's one option.
If there's never a downtime,right, then there's just an
expectation management issue orprioritization issue which is,
hey, there's never downtime, sothree weeks from now we're going
to have this person off.
Give us your prioritization ofissues.
We're going to let customersknow that we have a service
outage or downtime for this day.
So you set expectations, youmanage the queue, you do
(32:13):
everything.
So there's always, outside of atrue disaster, which we've all
experienced, and exceptionalcircumstances, there's an answer
.
And what the best part is thatthese exceptional times, that's
when people tend to be at theirkindest anyway, right, so like
that's like you have to play tothe natural ebbs and flows of
the space that the world givesyou.
(32:34):
And space exists, Like it alwaysexists.
You just have to setexpectations.
You have to be clear, you haveto prioritize or you have to
wait for the downtime.
Priscilla (32:51):
But there's always space.
There's always space.
I love that.
One of the things that we cando as support leaders to help
have healthy environments forour teams is by giving them
strategies that we've found overthe years to help us do better
work and to protect ourselvesand our mindset and things like
that.
And one of the things you knowthat we have to do you've
mentioned, as supportspecialists is we are
empathizing with people.
That is such a big part of ourwork is that we are finding ways
(33:14):
to empathize with our customers, and you wrote a really
beautiful article that I readrecently about how empathy can
become a self-imposed burden.
Oh, wow, yeah, and I'm going toread just a little part of it.
So you wrote empathy has beenovercomplicated to the point of
feeling heavy.
If we get back to empathy beingabout the feeling that's
created between people, notabout the solutions that are
(33:37):
provided to people, people willfeel less anxious about being
empathetic.
I thought it was a really coolway to look at it that empathy
doesn't have to be this hugeburden that we're carrying,
because as support specialists.
It can feel like that sometimes.
And so I thought it would becool.
Will you share with us just alittle bit more about your
opinion on that and how we canuse that in support to help
(33:58):
lighten that load a little bit?
Suneet (34:00):
Yeah, wow, I don't write a lot.
I wrote that one and I use itin my class at Rutgers, so it
was like it serves a purpose andI think your tie to support is
really important.
And the origin of that articlewas I was doing a coaching
session with this executive of alarge agency and he was having
this challenge with an employee.
(34:21):
And so it's like how do Ireconcile this challenge with
this employee?
And so just kind of avoidingthe conversation and not wanting
to find the solution.
And we got to this place whereI was like when you go to
someone with a problem, what'syour expectation?
On the other side?
And he's like well, I justsometimes just want them to hear
(34:41):
me out.
I just got to talk it out, likethat's kind of what I would do.
I'm like so how come, whensomebody comes to you with a
problem, you think you'resupposed to give them an answer
and carry it around with you forthe rest of your life?
I was like what would you do ifyou knew that every time you
asked somebody for help, theyfelt like they had to solve it
and then they carried yourburden around with them for the
rest of their lives?
How would you feel?
And he's like I would neverexpect them to do that.
(35:02):
So why do you think they expectyou to do that?
And so that's the first part ofthe exchange.
And then the second thing islike, how do you channel?
And part of empathy is liketeaching people how to put
things down, like you can holdit for that whole conversation,
but it's not about you, right?
It's just not about you.
So put it down and like, emptyyour backpack and then get on
(35:23):
with the next thing, andsometimes you have to be
deliberate about that.
You have to make a decision,and a choice, which is I just
get a lot of things said to me.
This is my process for emptyingmy backpack.
It's not about me, this is mymantra, this is what I'm going
to say, but I think that's thebig challenge and I think
overall and this is what I talkabout in my class one of the
(35:48):
reasons that anxiety is so highis because, generation by
generation, we're pushingempathy, but we're not teaching
people what to do.
Once they've been empathetic,and so everyone is more
empathetic.
This generation in collegeright now is more empathetic
than we are.
They're smarter than we are.
They're more diverse.
They are amazing.
There are all these amazingthings, but nobody.
They're more anxious becausenobody's taught them.
We've taught people to beempathetic, but not how to
(36:10):
channel that empathy, and that'swhy I got this push.
There's a lot of research ofshifting from empathy to
compassion, which is empathyplus action, and the action can
be anything from solve theproblem to put the problem back
down to whatever it is.
But when you do empathy, if youdon't add an action on the end
of it, then it's just a burden.
It just becomes a burden, right.
Priscilla (36:30):
Yeah, and then by the end of the day you're just
completely drained becauseyou're carrying all of these
questions that you've beenhelping people with throughout
the day and you have to find away to put that down and move on
, because if you don't, you'regoing to burn out very quickly.
If you can't, yeah.
So what strategies would yourecommend to someone who maybe
(36:50):
they're leading a support team?
Maybe they're leading a companyand they have a support team
that works for them and they'retrying to find ways to set up
that environment better to servethe support team, so that
support team is healthier andbetter equipped to serve the
support team, so that supportteam is healthier and better
equipped to serve the customers.
What advice would you give them?
Suneet (37:06):
Look, I think the thing that, as a leader, helps me the
most and I am a big fan of whatI'm about to share it's a
one-on-one framework, which ishow do you engage with all your
direct reports?
And the premise is reallysimple and it works in.
Like any environment and anycontext and any dynamic, it
feels hokey, so there'sresistance to it.
(37:29):
When people embrace it, it'sreally powerful and I think
you'll see why at the end.
It's a 25 minute agenda.
There's 10 minutes.
10 minutes and five minutes.
It's three questions.
You can guess by now that I lovethe rule of three, right?
And the first question isbasically you have clients
internal, external.
What do they need to be happy,healthy or successful?
And just write that down.
(37:50):
So what are your clients?
What do they need to be happy,healthy and successful?
Awesome, great.
You have team members on yourteam, vendors, partners.
You have a team, you have adefinition of a team.
What do they need to be happy,healthy and successful?
And it's very important.
Happy is a backdrop, healthy islike I feel good, and
successful is thriving, right.
(38:10):
So they can be at differentstages.
Some clients can be unhealthy.
I can't worry about themsucceeding.
I just got to get them healthy?
Like how do you sort of migratepeople through that workflow?
And I think this is reallyimportant for so many people.
As you saw with the Happy ProudNight and Satisfied exercise,
people are not ready to talkabout themselves.
Yeah.
So if they come to a one-on-oneand they're coming with all
(38:33):
these responsibilities I gotthis stuff to do for my team, I
got these clients to work with,I got these partners, I got
these people internally they'retelling them all that and you
say, hey, how are you doing?
They're not going to answer thequestion, they're not going to
answer it thoughtfully.
But if you let them empty alltheir burdens about the people
(38:53):
they serve clients, internal orexternal right If you let them
empty all the burdens of thepeople they work with this
person needs this, I need thisto work with this person, et
cetera and then they're like not, like all right, cool, you good
.
Everything, anything else youwant to talk about, and they're
like nope.
And you're like all right, good, Now tell me about you.
What do you need to be happy,healthy and successful?
And what's amazing is, if youdo that in 25 minutes, you will
(39:17):
have the richest understandingand shared common ground with
that, with that team member.
And they will have given youtheir to-do list that you need
to pick up, and you will have aclear understanding of how
they're actually doing and wherethey need your help.
You do this in 25 minutes.
It's the most effectiveone-on-one agenda you can ever
have and, if you do it right,they fill it out before you look
(39:39):
at it and you can actuallyspend the full 25 minutes just
on them, and so I thinkeverything we do is in.
You know, there used to be thisbook called the worst case
scenario handbook.
It was this thing they used togive out, like 25 years ago,
what to do if you get attackedby a shark.
Like all these things, the onethat like stuck out to me was
what do you do if you're in anavalanche?
Right, and right now we are allin an avalanche.
(40:03):
Right and right now we are allin an avalanche, yeah, and the
first thing they told you to dowas put your hands by your face
and push out and create a pocketof air and some space to
breathe so you can think aboutwhat to do next.
We are all in an avalancheright now at work, socially,
doesn't matter, and so the bestthing we can do for people is
(40:23):
guide them to put their hands attheir face, push out and create
space to breathe, and thenthink about what really needs to
get done.
And so that's what, like aone-on-one structure will do.
Is it just like, if you followit thoughtfully, you're just
continue to create space, butnot empty space where they feel
anxiety.
You create space with astructure and expectation within
it so they can just show up andbe themselves.
(40:46):
If you're like, hey, I'm goingto give you 25 minutes to talk
about you, people are going tofeel anxious.
But if you say, hey, I want toknow what makes you happy or
healthy, how can I make yousuccessful?
These are your three pumps.
You've got five minutes, likego for it.
And then you do this every week, every two weeks.
The rhythm is there.
They just come in ready to talk.
It just becomes an easierformat and structure for them to
operate against.
So, like that's something Ireally, really I believe in
(41:09):
almost as much as like happy,proud and satisfied is like
important and that approach to aone-on-one.
There are a lot of people whosay I'm going to let the
employee define the one-on-oneframework.
You can't see the label fromthe inside of the jar, like I
don't think that's the rightmove.
Sure, sometimes there's stuffyou want to talk about, bring it
to the table, like all thatstuff is great, I get it.
(41:30):
But I think putting that kindof pressure on the employee,
you've just outsourced anotherburden.
You just like.
That's not what you're therefor.
You're there to removeobstacles and make their life
easier, give them structurewithin through which to see
their work, help them pick theirheads up and think about their
work differently, and you're notgoing to do that by putting
another thing on their plate.
Priscilla (41:50):
Yeah, what you just said is so powerful that you're
there to make it easier for them.
That's your role.
You're there to removeroadblocks and to make it easier
for them, especially in acustomer support world and that
system.
You are there to make it so forthem, especially in a customer
support world and that system.
You are there to make it sothat they can serve your
customers, your users, better,and so thank you for coming and
talking through this with us.
(42:10):
It was really great to have youhere and to talk about it, and
I hope that anyone listening whois working in customer support
whether you're a specialist orwhether you're running a team it
is important to take care ofyourself and the customers get
the benefit right, but reallyit's for you you are.
The most important thing in thissituation is that you have a
healthy work environment andthat enables you to offer better
(42:32):
service.
But the reality is you need tomake sure that you're in a
healthy spot, and so if that'scommunicating with your manager
what it is that you need, thenthat's great, and if it's as the
manager looking out for andbeing intentional about how your
specialists are working and howtheir work environment is, then
that's what needs to happen.
Or if you're the CEO and you'relooking at your support team
(42:54):
and you're encouraging them totake PTO because you see that
they're not doing that.
All of these things are reallyimportant to foster this
environment of just healthyservice for your support team.
So thank you for coming on andtalking through that with us,
Suneet.
So, before we jump into ourSupport in Real Life segment,
can you tell our listeners alittle bit about where they can
(43:15):
find you and how they can learnmore about the work that you do?
Suneet (43:18):
Yeah, I would say the best place is either LinkedIn so
Suneet got on LinkedIn or mywebsite, which is called my
Authentic Story.
Those are the two places tofind me and to get a hold of me.
Priscilla (43:31):
Awesome, and we'll link all of that in the show
notes for this episode.
Now it's time for Support inReal Life, our segment where we
discuss real life supportexperiences and questions.
I actually have a question forSuneet today.
Ooh, so I was on your websiteand I saw a review of your work
that I'm going to read.
So it said the way Suneeteffortlessly combines wisdom and
(43:54):
empathy has not only inspiredme, but also ignited a burning
desire to pay it forward andshare this remarkable gift with
others.
So ignited a burning desire topay it forward and share this
remarkable gift with others.
Danit's innate ability toconnect with people from all
walks of life is unparalleled,making every interaction an
enriching and transformativeexperience.
First of all, that's just likean amazing quote to have on your
(44:14):
website, but the thing thatreally stuck out to me was that
it is such a necessary tool tohave in our toolbox as support
specialists the ability toconnect with people of all
different varieties, becauseyou're working with people that
you don't know their wholebackgrounds, and so it's clear
that you do it really well.
Can you share a little bit withus about how you connect with
(44:37):
people, like what strategiespeople can use to help connect
with all different types ofpeople through customer support.
Suneet (44:43):
That's a great question.
I think the thing that I lovedoing and therefore spend a lot
of time doing and doing well isI just love listening to people
talk, tell their story, and thenI love when people feel really
heard.
So I love playing it back tothem.
I've always done it and I loveplaying it back to them in a way
(45:05):
where they feel it sounds evenmore positive and flattering
like for them.
So I tell people when we have aconversation, I want you to
feel like you were in one ofthose old school 80s like house
of crazy mirrors and I want youto feel like you're looking in
the best and most flatteringmirror you've ever looked in.
When we talk, so like that'swhat I love to do for people,
(45:28):
right Is?
I just want to do that and Ithink in customer service, I
think the most important thingfor you to do is be really
honest about your strengths andyour values.
What are you really good at?
How do you thrive?
And then show up that wayauthentically and verbalize it,
which is, if you're a problemsolver, say, hey look, I get
energy from solving problems, soif you're going to bring me a
(45:48):
problem, my instinct is going tobe to start solving this.
If I'm not listening to youcorrectly, just let me know.
Know I'm doing that because I'mexcited to help you Like
verbalize it, tell people, sodon't mask it, don't hide it,
don't run from it, own it, knowit and own it and then
communicate it so that way youcan set expectations in the
context of that conversation.
So nothing is there.
So I think, just like, listen,listen, listen, listen.
(46:11):
Like really well, with no bias,try and play back what you've
heard as a baseline, reallyauthentically and ideally frame
it in a way that they feel goodfor having articulated it.
Do you think anybody feels goodcalling support and complaining
?
Like nobody wants to do that.
And so if they call and you sayI heard you and oh, my goodness
(46:33):
, what a smart perspective, whata great point of view, if you
make them feel good for sharing,that's the first.
Hear them, make them feel goodfor sharing, and's the first.
Hear them, make them feel goodfor sharing.
And then the third part is talkto them about how you are going
to approach the solution, howit works for you and gives you
energy, so they feel it'sauthentically.
You Like those are three waysto do, I think support service
(46:56):
conversation like really reallywell.
Jordan (47:00):
Thank you for answering that those are great tips Really
is I'm thinking about usingsome of those on my family too.
I'm excited.
Suneet (47:08):
Yeah, it's.
It's so good to be able to tellpeople what you're like, what
your natural instinct is, andfor you'd be like you know what?
I just want to solve thisproblem.
Is that what you want right now?
And they'll say nope, andyou're like, great, I'm going to
be quiet.
Yeah, that's, that's a lifelesson there.
Priscilla (47:23):
That's so good.
So if you have a question or asupport situation that you would
like us to discuss, you canemail us at happy to help at
buzzsproutcom, or text the showusing the link in our episode
show notes.
You may hear your questiondiscussed on a future episode.
Thanks a lot, Suneet, for beinghere.
It was great to see you againand I hope to talk again in the
future.
Thanks everyone for listening.
(47:44):
Now go and make someone's day.
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