May 11, 2025 • 43 mins
This episode introduces practical tools through Dialectical Behavioral Therapy, which balances acceptance with change. From mindfulness practices that help recognize emotional triggers to the surprisingly effective "cold immersion" technique for panic attacks, these strategies offer immediate help for listeners facing anxiety around food and body image. Dr. Anita Haque's simple pre-meal breathing practice and Therapist Mark Gibson's emphasis on breaking the secrecy around our struggles provide actionable steps toward healing.
Whether you're battling severe eating concerns, struggling with emotional eating, or simply looking to develop a healthier relationship with food, this episode offers both compassionate understanding and practical strategies from experts who've walked the path themselves. Listen, share, and take one small step toward food freedom today.
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Episode Transcript
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Intro/Close (00:01):
Welcome to Haque's Health Health Hacks podcast,
your trusted source for wellness, fitness and healthy lifestyle
insights.
We believe in empowering youwith knowledge to take control
of your health.
Join us as we explore thelatest in self-care, share
expert advice and guide you onyour journey to optimal
well-being.
Let's embark on this path to ahealthier you together.
Saima Haque (00:33):
Hello and welcome to Haque's Health Hacks, the
podcast where we dive deep intothe mind-body connection to help
you live your healthiest, mostvibrant life.
I'm your host Saima, Haque,and I'm thrilled to bring you
today's episode, which is extraspecial because it features my
sister, Dr.
Anita Haque, a chiropractorwho's not only a wellness expert
but someone who's walked thepath of overcoming personal
(00:53):
struggles with weight and eatingchallenges.
Her journey is one ofresilience, self-compassion and
holistic healing, and she's hereto share it with you.
Self-compassion and holistichealing, and she's here to share
it with you.
Joining us is Mark Gibson, atherapist with over 20 years of
experience specializing ineating disorders and dialectical
(01:15):
behavioral therapy.
He's a co-author of it WasNever About the Food, a master
at guiding people towardmeaningful change through trust
and practical strategies.
Together, they're tacklinganxiety and eating disorders,
topics that hit home for so manyof us, whether you're an
athlete chasing peak performance, someone navigating body image
(01:37):
challenges or just looking forways to manage stress and feel
your best.
From Anita's chiropracticinsights and personal story to
Mark's therapeutic expertise,this episode is packed with real
talk, actual hacks and a wholelot of hope.
So grab a drink, settle in andlet's get ready to hack our
health Haque's Health HealthHacks.
(01:58):
Here we go.
So, anita, you've openly sharedyour lifelong struggles with
weight and eating, issues whichmany listeners can relate to.
Dr. Anita Haque (02:09):
Can you share a little more about it and also a
pivotal moment in your journeythat helped you shift towards a
healthy relationship with foodand your body have to start off
by saying that this is probablythe most important thing in my
life the weight that set me onthis course of my healing
(02:36):
journey and bringing it toothers.
So I was seven years old when Iremember our mom, syma, sitting
me down alone and she, ascompassionately at the time I'm
sure as she could have said tome, she sat me down and said
Okay, you know, I think you'reputting on some weight.
We need to dial back.
You know, she said it a littledifferently, but basically we
(02:56):
need to dial back on your eatingso you can't get a second
serving.
You're going to have to cutback on some of the desserts and
the sweet treats that yoursisters get to eat.
So at first I was a bit shocked.
Like she's talking to me, likewhat Me?
I have a weight issue.
I don't even know if I wasaware and I did a lot of denial.
(03:16):
I remember saying repetitivelyI'm not overweight, I'm just big
boned, I'm just maybe chubby.
I'm not overweight, I'm justbig boned, I'm just maybe chubby
.
Maybe making it kind of cute atthe time for myself to cope and
to deal.
But at seven years old, how doyou really know how it affects
you until time moves forward andyou get to reflect.
(03:37):
So for me, I started anunhealthy relationship with food
at that time because I wasn'treally aware what she meant and
how she meant it, but I knew Igot to cut back.
So there was a lot ofstarvation and some of it
happened because of the way thatmy lunches were put.
So, for example, my lunch atthat time went from like a
(04:00):
sandwich and, you know, a juicebox and a piece of fruit to just
the juice box and the piece offruit.
And so I would, at lunch, beembarrassed because, you know,
everybody would pull out theirlunch from their brown bag and I
only have my juice box andmaybe an apple.
And a lot of my friends werelike where's your lunch, where's
your sandwich?
And I wasn't forthcoming about.
(04:21):
Well, I'm on a diet, I can'teat a sandwich, I'm cutting back
.
But what I did end up doing wasmaking an excuse that I wasn't
hungry, because I didn't wantanybody to know about it.
And when I came home and myparents our parents, simon were
at home because they were atwork I ate snacks, unhealthy
(04:41):
snacks, all the junk food thatwas like available because I was
starving and so I would eat andeat all these unhealthy things.
And then when mom and dad camehome for dinner, I would eat
dinner as well, even though Iwasn't necessarily hungry for it
, from all those junk food itemsthat I had consumed.
So it was just this perpetualcycle at my youth that I knew I
(05:06):
was aware of something thatwasn't right.
I didn't have the perfection,for my mom's eyes, of where I
needed to be, but it made memore aware of food, dieting, my
self-esteem, the body awareness,and it definitely led me into
(05:26):
this pathway of trying to bringit to other people, because I
too am a still a lifelongstudent.
So you asked me anotherquestion, which I think is
important for our listeners tohear, which is you know what was
a pivotal moment that may haveshifted my relationship, you
know, with food and my body?
I don't know if there wasactually one specific moment,
(05:49):
but it was later on in life,probably in my later 30s, that I
realized that all thesedifferent diets that I've tried
and I've tried every single onethat most people have heard of,
from the master cleanse you knowthe starvation from Dr Atkins
to you know, cutting out thecarbs we're talking paleo.
You know, there, starvationfrom Dr Atkins to, you know,
cutting out the carbs.
If we're talking paleo, youknow there's so many diets that
(06:09):
I've absolutely tried.
But you know, what was a pivotalthing for me was realizing that
I don't need to be get, I don'tneed to become skinny, I don't
need to get skinny, I just needto become healthier.
That was one of my pivotalmoments, for sure.
And understanding that my goalis not about the vanity, it was
more about the inside and how,my functioning of my body.
(06:32):
So that was one pivotal moment.
And the second pivotal momentwas I don't need to deprive
myself, because the more that Iwas in some sort of a box of a
diet, some sort of likeguideline, I ended up doing
worse.
I ended up maybe sabotagingmyself more because I felt
restricted and many of you whoare listening to this podcast
(06:54):
may agree or have had some senseof that restriction that makes
you want to rebel, you know, andeat more of the things that
you're not supposed to eat.
So that was another pivotalmoment for me was realizing that
I no longer need to practiceperfectionism with my diet,
because there's no such thing,but I only want to strive for
eating nourishing foods, atleast 70 to 80% of what I want
(07:17):
to eat on a day should besomething healthy and nourishing
for my body.
And then I got a little littleand not be in the box and
splurge, and maybe have thatchocolate or have that ice cream
bar or whatever my craving isfor that day.
So those were kind of mypivotal moments of the shift.
Saima Haque (07:34):
Well, that's amazing and you look amazing.
Poor mom, if she watches this,she's going to now know why her
diet never worked for you.
Dr. Anita Haque (07:44):
And it's not her fault.
So I want them to know she didthe best she could because she
had the best intention.
There's no blame or no hang upon that, of course.
Definitely.
Saima Haque (07:54):
Mark your book it Was Never About the Food
suggests eating disorders arerooted in deeper emotional or
psychological issues.
How do you help clients,including those with experiences
, like Dr Haque, with peoplestruggling with weight and
eating, and how do you uncoverand address any of these
underlying causes?
Mark Gibson (08:14):
Well, if we start with the beginning, if I talk
about the depth of eatingdisorders, I specialize.
More of my work has been donewith anorexia and bulimia,
meaning being underweight, or alot of people with bulimia
struggle with what they callcompensatory behaviors, which is
compensating for calories takenin, like purging,
(08:38):
overexercising, diet pills, dietpills.
So I've spent a lot of time athigher levels of care inpatient,
where people are oftentimesbedridden for a while.
So I wanted to just kind ofcapture that beginning part
first, because we have this onthe spectrum of where treatment
(08:58):
can be and when it's on that endof the spectrum it is a lot of
stabilization.
At the beginning I have peoplethat oftentimes come in and
their heart rates are extremelylow or they haven't had a
menstrual cycle for a year, andso it requires, I mean, if I
I've had some people that comein where I had to send them to
Stanford right away, and whenyou go to Stanford you go to a
(09:21):
bed until your vitals arestabilized and you do not move,
and so I have that end of thespectrum.
And then what a lot of times.
What we're talking about herehas to do with kind of
developing a healthyrelationship with food overall
kind of combating dietingconcepts and mentalities and
(09:43):
with them.
To be honest, in my career Ithink I've been horrible at that
treatment because people don'tstick with me long term because
my focus is about more intuitiveeating, which is kind of what
you're you're hinting at Anitais throughout your lifetime
(10:05):
having this diet, and then yourealize Anita is throughout your
lifetime having this diet andthen you realize, wow, I'm still
hungry.
So we still have that primitivepart of our brain that's saying
I need more food, and so we'rebattling that with messages of
body image judgment that comefrom society, and so it gets to
be extremely confusing.
(10:26):
But I'm trying to now teachthis intuitive eating process
and it's flies in the face, Ithink, a lot of what is norm in
our society, which is fastacting, quick weight loss, and
it just doesn't sustain.
And so I start talking aboutintuitive eating, which is
connected to mindfulness andhonoring hunger and fullness,
(10:51):
and most people are looking fora quick change and I end up kind
of struggling with them.
But, if I talk about the initialphase of stabilization, it's
amazing what starts to happen,which is I move to that next
phase, which I kind of callfiguring it out.
And when people get stabilizedand they're nourished and
(11:14):
they're feeling good and theystart to participate in life, is
when that underlying aspects ofwhat might be at the core of an
eating disorder starts to cometo the surface.
And that's where the long termwork is and that can be.
I mean, I've seen people theirentire, I mean, since I started
(11:36):
in this field.
There are some people that Istill see on a maintenance kind
of basis.
So, yeah, on a maintenance kindof basis, so, um, yeah, that's.
It's quite a wild ride and intothose spectrums that I was
talking about.
Saima Haque (11:51):
I'm sure it's great to have your support.
Dr, Ha, yes, definitely.
How did your personalexperiences with weight
influence your approach tohelping patients at Haute
Chiropractic with nutrition andwellness?
Dr. Anita Haque (12:06):
I think it's a huge, integral part of the way
that I practice, the way I speakto patients, not just because
of my own personal experience,but because I also now really
understand the value of how foodis medicine and or it could be
poison.
You know, on the other end ofthe spectrum.
(12:27):
But in the sense of even withtheir treatments and getting
repair with their chiropracticcare, you know their nutrition
and how much inflammatory foodsor what they're feeding
themselves is going to impactthe results that they're also
going to receive from not onlytheir adjustments but holding
their adjustments, seeing theimprovement, having the
inflammation come down.
There's so much in our dietthat impacts that.
(12:48):
So that is definitely somethingthat's at the forefront.
But beyond that, for me, mypersonal experience in terms of
some even Mark what you werebringing up you know you have
you know the anorexia and thebulimia.
I think I've had all of thosethings and so I feel comfortable
opening up to patients andsharing that with them, making
sure that they know it's a safeplace for them to know that.
(13:11):
You know there is noperfectionism here, that we're
all dealing with our emotionsand sometimes the way that we
deal with our emotions isfeeding our emotions with food
or a substance or something likein that realm and I'm, you know
, being aware of that allows meto kind of ask, maybe certain
questions so that patients canfeel more comfortable to share
(13:33):
that with me and open up thatconversation.
So that allows me to maybe givethem some more direction,
whether they need to speak tosomebody, maybe more severely
talking to Mark, maybe us justhaving a conversation about hey,
you know, when you're stressed,you went to doing you know this
activity which was, you know,eating that junk food.
I resonate, I did that samething.
Here's what else you can doinstead.
So, having that conversation,because I really feel that part
(13:56):
of the care that every singlepatient gets in my office is not
just the adjustment but it'sthe experience of uplifting
their health, maybe making thatlittle bit of a pivot, a change
besides the adjustment that canmaybe set them on a better
course for health.
Saima Haque (14:12):
It totally makes sense, Mark.
You've worked with eatingdisorders across inpatient and
outpatient settings for 20 years.
What's a common misconceptionabout eating disorders that
you'd like to debunk for ourlisteners?
What's?
Mark Gibson (14:25):
a common misconception about eating
disorders that you'd like todebunk for our listeners.
I know when I saw that questionearlier there's the initial
(14:47):
that I I mean if I just speakjust on observation, if I tell
people what I do, their initialresponse is I have an eating
disorder, do you think you canhelp me?
And they point at their belly.
And I say that because I meanjust at that point I just kind
of will smirk a little bit andsay like yeah, I mean I can very
much appreciate that side ofthe struggle that people have,
and then I will take thatopportunity oftentimes to
educate people that the otherend of this I mean I think in
(15:11):
the long term, in the long runyou're talking about obesity is
definitely not going to be ableto be sustainable for a healthy
lifestyle and lifespan.
But in terms of the anorexia andbulimia it's in the mental
health world is one of the mostdeadliest mental health diseases
that there is, and so I thinkthat's one of the things that
(15:36):
sometimes will catch people'sattention.
The other thing that I highlightthat oftentimes surprises
people and this is like workingwith, like family groups over my
career is struggling torecognize the function of an
eating disorder in people'slives.
So the idea that when somebodymight purge or restrict or
(15:57):
starve themselves to the pointthat they need to be in a
hospital, most people arethinking like at what point is
kind of the rational mind goingto kick in and you're just going
to eat, or how could peopleenjoy throwing up, and they
struggle to recognize that thereis a function to that.
(16:18):
So the idea with anorexiaoftentimes it reduces the
ability to recognize thingsgoing on in the world around
them.
So for anxiety, when you aremalnourished you don't have the
same level of anxiety.
It goes down With bulimia.
It's in that moment it verymuch is a numbing agent and if
(16:41):
there's intensity going onaround, that experience is very
soothing in the moment forpeople.
And that's that's been the oneart where people just look at me
and go like I just can't wrapmy head around it, and so that
probably to me is one of thebiggest misconceptions of it.
Saima Haque (17:03):
That's great.
I never, I never even thoughtabout that.
Oh, your malnutrition couldimpact your, your psyche, like
that yeah it makes sense.
Yeah, anita, you've describedbreaking free from negative,
negative cycles with the help ofyour husband, don, and adopting
self-love as part of yourhealth equation, and mark you
focus on behavioral changethrough therapy.
(17:25):
What are some key steps someonecan take to break from these
cycles of anxiety or disorderedeating, mark?
Maybe you could share first.
Mark Gibson (17:38):
Breaking from the cycles of disordered eating or
anxiety.
Well, let me start with theidea of the cycles, if we talk
about anxiety.
I let me start with the idea ofthe cycles.
If we talk about anxiety, Ithink it's really important.
Most of my education startsthere, which is understanding
the function of emotions, asopposed to breaking free of
anxiety.
The function of it is it keepsus alive, so we don't want to
(18:03):
break free from it.
Learning how to regulate it orthe other side to it, if we
think about the other part ofanxiety, is helping us to
prepare.
So if I am doing this podcast,guess what some of the anxiety
leading up to it did for me.
I started doing some research,looking through questions.
(18:25):
I've done a lot of movingaround lately, so I haven't
spent a lot of time doingpresentations, so I'm going to
go in and utilize some of thatanxiety to help me get prepared,
and so that's one of the thingsthat I that is a big focus of
mine is re-educating people tolearning to really embrace
emotions and utilize them forwhat they're for.
(18:45):
Um, so yeah, that's a that's abig part of this that makes
sense.
Saima Haque (18:53):
And anita and yourself like how did you um
break free from your negativecycles to adopt, like self-love,
part of your health, so journey?
Dr. Anita Haque (19:02):
kind of I.
I like what you said, mark,there about how it's not
necessarily breaking free.
You know, kind of lead to myanswer here too.
So just so the listeners knowmy equation that I've come up
with for health, or more optimalhealth is falling, so optimal
health is falling, so optimalhealth is equal to love to
(19:27):
yourself and others.
So that's a big one.
Love and being healthy leads tohappiness.
So that's kind of the equation.
Sorry, I'm reversed it, so letme go start off again.
So, basically, being loving toyourself, being loving to others
and being as healthy as you canbe through all the things right
(19:50):
your sleep, your eating, yourmovement, all those things,
thinking healthy, that's reallywhat leads to optimal, like joy
and happiness in my life.
And that's kind of the equationthat I put out, you know,
through the books I've writtenand things like that, or even
for patients.
So you know in terms of youknow breaking free, it's in the
equation.
And what's really in theequation in terms of even though
(20:11):
it's not necessarily breakingfree, but maybe breaking free
from that negative thing you'redoing to yourself, comes from
that part of the equation ofself-love.
I often have found that throughmy own self dialect.
I'm kinder to others than I amto myself in the past and I've
had to recognize why am I beingso mean to myself, like I would
(20:34):
never say this to any of you, Iwould never pick on you on
something like that.
Why am I doing this to myself?
Which was kind of an awarenessfor me to break some of the
cycle of negativity that I wasdoing to my body or doing with
the purging, or doing with thestarving, you know, starting
becoming kinder to myself, whichreally is self-love, and that
(20:56):
led me into more of okay, myself-love is, you know, being
kinder to myself.
But also part of self-love isself-discipline and self-respect
.
So maybe my discipline, myself-discipline, isn't not
necessarily not eating, but it'sbeing disciplined to not purge,
to not starve to, to not be soharsh on myself.
So that's kind of one of theways that for myself, I feel
(21:19):
like it's my behaviors learn tochange and shift, so I wasn't
going back to those same badhabits that we often tend to do,
if that makes sense.
Mark Gibson (21:30):
Yeah, I was thinking about the second part
of it.
You mentioned disordered eatingaspect of it.
I talked about the emotionalside but the idea of patterns
that people fall into and youwere talking about finding that
balance with calories into, andyou were talking about, you know
, finding that balance withcalories of how they are viewed.
I remember early on in mycareer I think it very much was,
(21:52):
if we're talking aboutstabilization the belief a lot
of times that differenttreatment centers that I was a
part of was a calorie is just acalorie and that was the focus
on just re getting refed and wedidn't care how it happened and
that was oftentimes what peoplehave done about malnourishment,
(22:13):
with anorexia, and as I think Igrew in my career and started
talking to different or maybeit's just a natural part of
progression in life, when youlearn, learn more and you start
working with differentprofessionals is starting to
really appreciate the quality offood and how people are gaining
(22:34):
weight, because oftentimes youwould find that if the focus
early on in stabilization wasjust about getting weight put on
, people oftentimes when theywould leave, would struggle with
overeating, and so we startedto find more of that balance
where, well, a calorie is justnot a calorie.
(22:55):
And then, anita, you kind ofhighlighted where but a calorie
can also be celebratory,especially in the short run.
So, and oftentimes kind ofbreaking free from that, I run
into people I don't know if youguys have ever heard of
orthorexia, but it's really anobsession that people can
develop around healthy foods andwith them.
(23:18):
It's another process ofbreaking free from the idea of
like, hey, it's your child'sbirthday, this is part of the
celebration being present withyour child and being able to
have cake.
Or I run into professionalsthat can't go out to lunch with
(23:39):
other coworkers because theydon't know where they're going,
they don't know who's preparingtheir food, and so their world
gets very restrictive.
And then the idea of breakingfree of that cycle is exposure
therapy.
You got to turn over control tosomebody else, trusting that
there's going to be somethingthere that's going to fit within
(24:02):
a process that's going to serveyour body well.
And we still might have thosetimes where we have an inkling
for some dessert or something.
Even that is part of connectingTalk about celebration, but
just social connections.
Dr. Anita Haque (24:18):
You made such a good point.
Sorry, I just want to say thispart because you know, mark, I
had a patient, younger patient,she's 17.
And she often asks me about herdiet when she comes in for
adjustments and she trackseverything.
I know that there's a lot ofpeople who use these trackers
for everything they eat and theytrack, you know, all the
(24:39):
macronutrients, it's how muchprotein, how many calories, how
many carbs per meal.
She brings me her charts, DrHaque.
Look, this is what I puttogether and I remember saying
kind of what you just touched on, mark, is, you know, I'm glad
that you're making a foodjournal, you're being aware.
But this can also becomeunhealthy because you know the
calorie count from an applelet's say that's 80 calories for
(25:01):
a medium-sized apple is notgoing to be the same value of 80
calories from, let's say, acandy bar that you might consume
.
So you don't want to get soobsessed on the numbers.
As opposed to the wherewithal,the logic of knowing this is
nourishing.
For me to eat, this is a treatfor me to eat, this is joyful.
And then when you eat a treat,the hardest thing I know I've
(25:25):
had to overcome to in the pastis okay, if I'm going to have a
treat let's say I'm going to goout to dinner because you're
right, orthorexia could besomething that's prominent,
maybe even my life, where I amvery focused on healthy eating.
But if I'm going to eatsomething bad and then spend the
next three hours thinking about, oh my God, I just ate this
dessert, oh, shame on me.
(25:46):
You're kind of discipliningyourself internally that I
shouldn't have eaten thatchocolate cake.
I ate so well all day and thenI had that piece of chocolate
cake and I ruined my whole diet.
People have that hangup.
I know I've had that hangup asopposed to knowing, hey, I'm
enjoying this treat of achocolate cake.
I eat healthful foods all dayand now I'm not thinking about
(26:07):
it, I'm just going to enjoy it.
And doing that you're not evenraising your cortisol
necessarily as much on acellular level, which could hurt
you and make you put on moreweight from the stuff that
you're eating and feeling guiltyabout.
So there's so many complexitiesto how we eat and how we count
foods that sometimes I feel thatwhen I speak to the patient I
was mentioning toss it away,stop worrying about all the
(26:30):
details.
Let's focus on the granderpicture here.
You know you want to eat reallyhealthy things and kind of move
forward yeah.
Mark Gibson (26:36):
Well, that kind of speaks sometimes to the
intuitive.
Eating too Is, yeah, I think,when people are learning to eat.
Sometimes I've used the numberof calories from the standpoint
of hey, let's look at thescience now behind what you
think you're doing, to highlighthow the relationship to it is
(27:00):
so misinformed that when theyactually find out how much
they're eating and it's notanywhere near what their body
actually needs sometimes I findout they're not even getting
what their brain would consumein a normal day, and so it can
be utilized to help debunk some,some philosophies they might
have.
And then, on the other end, I'mlike, well, yeah, if you were a
(27:25):
olymp like Michael Phelps, it'simportant to know how many
calories are going to your bodybecause you're trying to perform
at this elite level.
But in general, what you kind offind is most people as I'm back
to having that discussion asmuch as I can when they get
stabilized of your body and yourmind, if you're connected to it
(27:45):
will let you know what it needs.
If you get really in tune withit, connected to it will let you
know what it needs.
If you get really in tune withit, it actually can start to let
you know what kinds of foodit's asking for.
So, like the idea of carbsyou're talking about, like the
Atkins diet, like well, that cutout really efficient or
necessary carbs that give ourbody energy, that when people do
(28:07):
that, they end up then at somepoint running out of energy and
then what do they do?
Saima Haque (28:13):
it's yeah, everybody's asking for energy.
Mark Gibson (28:16):
So what?
What are you gonna start tocrave and so?
But I'm just like I'd rathernot get to the point where your
body's without it before itkicks in, where we start to
connect to it on a day-to-daybasis that makes sense I just
wanted to move over into whatmark kind of specializes in
which is the dialecticalbehavioral therapy?
Saima Haque (28:37):
I want to understand how individuals like,
maybe, anxiety and eatingdisorder symptoms, like an
athlete um, how it can help themwith managing the pressure of
weight struggles or how tomanage their eating habits.
So what does dialecticalbehavioral therapy do?
Mark Gibson (29:02):
Well, if I break it down, a dialect, if I define
that for people, first is theidea that as human beings, we
have the capacity to experiencetwo opposing thoughts or
emotions at the same time.
Dialectical behavior therapystands on the relationship
(29:23):
between acceptance and change.
At their core, they're veryopposite, but there's a
paradoxical relationship betweenthe two of them, and that is if
you haven't accepted what'shappening or where you're at the
idea of doing change doesn'thappen.
So oftentimes people end upfighting against themselves that
(29:45):
anxiety has shown up or I havethis intensity going on and it
prevents them from actuallydoing something about it.
So it's just like DBT is suchthis bigger picture concept from
a behavioral standpoint, butit's broken down into four
modules, and there's twoacceptance-based modules and two
(30:09):
change-based modules, and theacceptance-based is mindfulness
and distress tolerance, and sothe change ones have to do with
emotion regulation andinterpersonal effectiveness, and
that's where you're working onimproving relationships.
I've talked about anxietyearlier, the idea of utilizing
(30:30):
anxiety.
Some people, the anxiety showsup and they're so frustrated
with themselves that, you know,somebody told me not to worry
anymore.
However, here I am worrying.
What do I now do?
And if I am stuck with the ideathat there's something wrong
with me that I'm worrying.
It's tough to go to theregulatory process, which is I
(30:53):
got to do something with this,is it justified or not?
And then I can start utilizingit.
Now in the sports world, ifwe're talking about not just
sports but performance ingeneral, I find myself utilizing
mindfulness as the foundationof people's work, and that is
(31:14):
really tuning in to the idea ofwhat is happening to me
internally with my thoughts,with my body and I don't know.
There there's a.
If you look at the, theresearch and the years in which
people spend practicingmindfulness.
(31:35):
Um, I've been, I've done.
In the stuff that I've read,they talked about the idea of 20
minutes a day of practicingmindfulness, and that is there
is like meditation, and thenthere's mindfulness.
We hear about meditation fromthis idea of this soothing,
calming kind of experience,mindfulness at its core.
(31:57):
I try and get people.
You sit with yourself and yourbrain, you remove other
distractions and you're learningto work and understand what is
happening inside of you, and forsome people that is very scary
and very uncomfortable and hencewhy I say go, do that work to
(32:22):
regulate emotions or perform ata really high level you got to
learn to be aware of what'shappening in the moment in order
to work with it.
Saima Haque (32:34):
Well, that's one of the next questions I was going
to ask you actually was did youcould share, like a specific you
know therapy skill?
So, listeners, could you knowpractice or resonate with
overwhelmed by anxiety or foodtriggers?
Mark Gibson (32:50):
Yeah, I kind of jumped ahead with it.
But yes, mindfulness, for sureis that, but it's one of those
things that I wouldn't call it aspecific skill as opposed to a
practice that helps to improveand shape your brain.
That helps to improve and shapeyour brain so you are ready for
(33:19):
things like difficult emotionsthat come your way, or pressure
that comes your way, intenseanxiety, or if I'm having, I'm
getting dressed in the morningand here I am looking myself in
the mirror and I can't seemyself leaving the house because
I'm so overwhelmed by my bodyimage.
Right now, I have found this isjust in the years that I've
(33:41):
been working in the field andteaching DBT.
There's a skill that they call.
It's kind of I mean, anita, youwould know about this like
working with cold therapy, butcold immersion, but just you
almost do it with just your headand just holding your breath
and putting your face into coldwater has an amazing ability of
(34:06):
like it drops your heart rate,which shocks your body.
Yeah, it's called like a divereflex and you have so when that
happens, oftentimes, if youhave this such as contrast of
this intensity going on, thenall of a sudden your body, heart
rate, blood pressure, all thatstuff kind of dumps real quick
(34:28):
and it provides sometimes thatspace for people to tune in a
little bit more, to more theirrational or wise mind, where if
I'm having this experiencesometimes people are like it's
almost like delusional.
What they think they're thinkin the mirror at times and if
the intensity is high that canreally help bring it down rather
(34:51):
quickly.
Especially with panic attacksor those kind of things.
It's a game changer.
Usually people will come backafter that and go, wow, that one
hits home quick, almost to thepoint where I tell people that
if they actually have lowerheart rates already, do it
sitting down, because it canhave that much of an impact,
(35:13):
because it can almost likecreate where people might pass
out.
Saima Haque (35:18):
Well, that's a quick fix.
Mark Gibson (35:19):
It is as quick as it gets.
Saima Haque (35:24):
I just wanted to end the podcast with a health
hack from both of you, ifpossible.
I just wanted to find out fromVivianita first that's somebody
who's overcome personalchallenges with weight and Mark
yourself as a therapist, who yousupport so many people in
recovery what's a health hackyou can offer to our listeners
who feel stuck in theirstruggles with anxiety, eating a
(35:47):
body image, and maybe V couldshare first?
Dr. Anita Haque (35:49):
that'd be great , yeah, you know, um, I had to
do a few things and this is thehack that I would like to share,
that I've lived and I still useat times.
One is I like to take a deepbreath before I eat.
It's just a quick hack, kind oflike resetting, sometimes for
(36:11):
anxiety purposes.
You're not breathing enough.
Number one, you're doing ashallow breathing situation, so
you're not even as logicalbecause of that.
So sometimes you know, justtaking a moment, full inhale,
full exhale, um, can help me tokind of get more rational, uh,
calm down my nerves and,especially before I eat, it
(36:36):
starts to focus me a little bitmore on let's enjoy this meal,
because one of the things I usedto do when I was anxious or I
was eating not because I wastrying to nourish my body, but I
was trying to feed an emotionor settle down a negative
emotion in my body is I wouldeat in a numb form, so meaning
(36:57):
eating without thinking about it, eating while I'm watching a
screen on a phone call, I'mdoing something else, so I'm not
focused on actually nourishingmyself.
I'm kind of, you know, doingthis in the past.
So that was a big thing for meto recognize that pattern and in
(37:17):
order for me to recognize thatpattern.
It helps me now is to take thatdeep breath before I eat to
make sure okay, let me make sureI'm calm here too.
What am I feeling right nowbefore I eat, asking myself that
question am I really hungry oram I just feeling scared, upset,
angry, anxious?
All of those feelings Do I needto recognize that first?
(37:38):
So sometimes taking that deepbreath allows me to ask that
question of you know, am Ireally hungry or am I just
feeding something else?
So that was another way that Iremember having to break myself,
maybe out of the pattern.
The other thing that led intoyou know kind of this hack is I
(38:00):
made mistakes all the time.
I still do, even with eating.
So I have to often remindmyself forgive you, forgive me,
like forgive myself for maybenot being perfect, forgive
myself for maybe doing what Isaid I wasn't going to do,
because I'm human, just like Iwould forgive someone else,
right?
You know I mentioned thatearlier about you know, treating
yourself like you would treatsomebody else.
(38:22):
So forgiveness is a big part ofthat hack for me, of knowing
that I'm not going to be perfectand I don't need to be perfect,
because there's no such thing.
But am I progressing?
Am I getting just a little bitbetter than I was?
And forgiveness is a part ofthat, forgiving myself for maybe
having something I said Iwouldn't eat or, you know, like
I said, having the extra treatbut enjoying it more.
(38:44):
So, with that forgiveness and Ialready mentioned this to you
both, you know, treatingyourself like a friend kind of
goes into that self-love.
So I think that those are mymain hacks is taking that deep
breath, taking a moment, askingyourself if you're really hungry
for this.
You know, sometimes you need tojust sort of take that numbness
out of what we always do as apattern.
Saima Haque (39:03):
You know I love that Taking the time to pause.
Mark Gibson (39:07):
Yeah.
Saima Haque (39:08):
And know yourself.
What about for you, mark?
Do you have a?
Yeah?
Mark Gibson (39:13):
another word that when I was reading the question,
the thing that jumped out wasthe word stuck, and I'm going to
take a little bit of adifferent angle.
I love what you said, anita,about some of the more
in-the-moment work.
I thought about it from theattaching it, from the angle of
(39:36):
I use the word transparency andin order to get unstuck.
I think a lot of times peopleover time get very stuck in
their lives because their secret, their struggles, are more
internal and inward and theyhide, and oftentimes because
they feel ashamed or feelembarrassed or guilty or just
(40:00):
anxious and stuck and the ideaof and it just those, what we
wrote, what we put down withanxiety, eating body image.
It thrives in secrecy Becauseoftentimes we end up feeling
like, but understandable thoughit's understandable how people
get there, because it'suncomfortable and I don't you
(40:21):
know, you end up you protect itmore when nobody else knows
about it.
And so the idea of gettingunstuck, just being transparent,
and that can be as simple asopening up to your chiropractor,
opening up to your primarydoctor, a family member Not
(40:42):
oftentimes do I get the initialcall from somebody that this is
their time to be transparent.
It's usually they are.
Somebody else has said to themyou need more help and we got to
get this ball rolling.
But usually it will happen,oftentimes with anorexia and
bulimia because of health issues, and they can't hide that
(41:02):
anymore.
So that becomes the obviousthing going on.
Can't hide that anymore, sothat becomes the obvious thing
going on.
But in general, if we can learnto be more transparent, we can
get proactive in some of thesechanges that go on.
So I kind of think of thatseems to be the one that jumped
out to me the most is just theidea of being transparent and
(41:24):
not hiding.
Saima Haque (41:26):
Yeah, that's amazing.
Yeah, just recognition foryourself too.
You guys both have sharedwonderful hacks with the
listeners, and I'm not sure if,anita, you wanted to end off
anything.
Definitely.
Dr. Anita Haque (41:41):
I just want to say you know, mark, you're such
a great resource.
We're so happy to have you ontoday on this podcast and we'll
show your information withlisteners if they want to get in
touch with you to maybe getsome more therapy, some
assistance, because I think that, like you mentioned, your hack
kind of being more transparent.
(42:01):
That's why we're having thisdiscussion.
I want all of us to be able tohave more of a normalcy around
this topic, because it is a lotin secret and it was a lot in
secret for me too until you canadmit it and know that, hey, I'm
not alone.
So many of us are dealing withthis on different levels, but
(42:23):
the more we share, the more wecan kind of say, okay, I'm not
alone in this, you're like me,I'm feeling the same way.
We can kind of be there foreach other and hopefully get on
a healthier pathway.
So thank you both so much fortoday and for sharing your
insights.
It means a lot.
Mark Gibson (42:38):
Well, I appreciate the invite.
Like I said, I have been in myrecent moves I've been staring
at the screen just doing myday-to-day grind of work.
So getting to spread out andconnect with other professionals
in a different way and doingpresenting and have that kind of
thing has been a nice littlechange to my getting more
(42:59):
settled into this new area.
Dr. Anita Haque (43:03):
So awesome.
Yeah, no, thank you.
Well awesome, we're happy tohave you yeah no, thank you.
Intro/Close (43:10):
Thank you for tuning in to Haque's Health
Health Hacks podcast.
We hope today's discussion hasprovided valuable insights into
achieving and maintaining yourhealth.
Remember your well-being is ourpriority.
Visit us at haquechiropractic.
com or call 925-960-1960 tolearn more or schedule an
(43:32):
appointment.
Welcome to Haque's Health Health Hacks podcast,
your trusted source for wellness, fitness and healthy lifestyle
insights.
We believe in empowering youwith knowledge to take control
of your health.
Join us as we explore thelatest in self-care, share
expert advice and guide you onyour journey to optimal
well-being.
Let's embark on this path to ahealthier you together.
Saima Haque (00:33):
Hello and welcome to Haque's Health Hacks, the
podcast where we dive deep intothe mind-body connection to help
you live your healthiest, mostvibrant life.
I'm your host Saima, Haque,and I'm thrilled to bring you
today's episode, which is extraspecial because it features my
sister, Dr.
Anita Haque, a chiropractorwho's not only a wellness expert
but someone who's walked thepath of overcoming personal
(00:53):
struggles with weight and eatingchallenges.
Her journey is one ofresilience, self-compassion and
holistic healing, and she's hereto share it with you.
Self-compassion and holistichealing, and she's here to share
it with you.
Joining us is Mark Gibson, atherapist with over 20 years of
experience specializing ineating disorders and dialectical
(01:15):
behavioral therapy.
He's a co-author of it WasNever About the Food, a master
at guiding people towardmeaningful change through trust
and practical strategies.
Together, they're tacklinganxiety and eating disorders,
topics that hit home for so manyof us, whether you're an
athlete chasing peak performance, someone navigating body image
(01:37):
challenges or just looking forways to manage stress and feel
your best.
From Anita's chiropracticinsights and personal story to
Mark's therapeutic expertise,this episode is packed with real
talk, actual hacks and a wholelot of hope.
So grab a drink, settle in andlet's get ready to hack our
health Haque's Health HealthHacks.
(01:58):
Here we go.
So, anita, you've openly sharedyour lifelong struggles with
weight and eating, issues whichmany listeners can relate to.
Dr. Anita Haque (02:09):
Can you share a little more about it and also a
pivotal moment in your journeythat helped you shift towards a
healthy relationship with foodand your body have to start off
by saying that this is probablythe most important thing in my
life the weight that set me onthis course of my healing
(02:36):
journey and bringing it toothers.
So I was seven years old when Iremember our mom, syma, sitting
me down alone and she, ascompassionately at the time I'm
sure as she could have said tome, she sat me down and said
Okay, you know, I think you'reputting on some weight.
We need to dial back.
You know, she said it a littledifferently, but basically we
(02:56):
need to dial back on your eatingso you can't get a second
serving.
You're going to have to cutback on some of the desserts and
the sweet treats that yoursisters get to eat.
So at first I was a bit shocked.
Like she's talking to me, likewhat Me?
I have a weight issue.
I don't even know if I wasaware and I did a lot of denial.
(03:16):
I remember saying repetitivelyI'm not overweight, I'm just big
boned, I'm just maybe chubby.
I'm not overweight, I'm justbig boned, I'm just maybe chubby
.
Maybe making it kind of cute atthe time for myself to cope and
to deal.
But at seven years old, how doyou really know how it affects
you until time moves forward andyou get to reflect.
(03:37):
So for me, I started anunhealthy relationship with food
at that time because I wasn'treally aware what she meant and
how she meant it, but I knew Igot to cut back.
So there was a lot ofstarvation and some of it
happened because of the way thatmy lunches were put.
So, for example, my lunch atthat time went from like a
(04:00):
sandwich and, you know, a juicebox and a piece of fruit to just
the juice box and the piece offruit.
And so I would, at lunch, beembarrassed because, you know,
everybody would pull out theirlunch from their brown bag and I
only have my juice box andmaybe an apple.
And a lot of my friends werelike where's your lunch, where's
your sandwich?
And I wasn't forthcoming about.
(04:21):
Well, I'm on a diet, I can'teat a sandwich, I'm cutting back
.
But what I did end up doing wasmaking an excuse that I wasn't
hungry, because I didn't wantanybody to know about it.
And when I came home and myparents our parents, simon were
at home because they were atwork I ate snacks, unhealthy
(04:41):
snacks, all the junk food thatwas like available because I was
starving and so I would eat andeat all these unhealthy things.
And then when mom and dad camehome for dinner, I would eat
dinner as well, even though Iwasn't necessarily hungry for it
, from all those junk food itemsthat I had consumed.
So it was just this perpetualcycle at my youth that I knew I
(05:06):
was aware of something thatwasn't right.
I didn't have the perfection,for my mom's eyes, of where I
needed to be, but it made memore aware of food, dieting, my
self-esteem, the body awareness,and it definitely led me into
(05:26):
this pathway of trying to bringit to other people, because I
too am a still a lifelongstudent.
So you asked me anotherquestion, which I think is
important for our listeners tohear, which is you know what was
a pivotal moment that may haveshifted my relationship, you
know, with food and my body?
I don't know if there wasactually one specific moment,
(05:49):
but it was later on in life,probably in my later 30s, that I
realized that all thesedifferent diets that I've tried
and I've tried every single onethat most people have heard of,
from the master cleanse you knowthe starvation from Dr Atkins
to you know, cutting out thecarbs we're talking paleo.
You know, there, starvationfrom Dr Atkins to, you know,
cutting out the carbs.
If we're talking paleo, youknow there's so many diets that
(06:09):
I've absolutely tried.
But you know, what was a pivotalthing for me was realizing that
I don't need to be get, I don'tneed to become skinny, I don't
need to get skinny, I just needto become healthier.
That was one of my pivotalmoments, for sure.
And understanding that my goalis not about the vanity, it was
more about the inside and how,my functioning of my body.
(06:32):
So that was one pivotal moment.
And the second pivotal momentwas I don't need to deprive
myself, because the more that Iwas in some sort of a box of a
diet, some sort of likeguideline, I ended up doing
worse.
I ended up maybe sabotagingmyself more because I felt
restricted and many of you whoare listening to this podcast
(06:54):
may agree or have had some senseof that restriction that makes
you want to rebel, you know, andeat more of the things that
you're not supposed to eat.
So that was another pivotalmoment for me was realizing that
I no longer need to practiceperfectionism with my diet,
because there's no such thing,but I only want to strive for
eating nourishing foods, atleast 70 to 80% of what I want
(07:17):
to eat on a day should besomething healthy and nourishing
for my body.
And then I got a little littleand not be in the box and
splurge, and maybe have thatchocolate or have that ice cream
bar or whatever my craving isfor that day.
So those were kind of mypivotal moments of the shift.
Saima Haque (07:34):
Well, that's amazing and you look amazing.
Poor mom, if she watches this,she's going to now know why her
diet never worked for you.
Dr. Anita Haque (07:44):
And it's not her fault.
So I want them to know she didthe best she could because she
had the best intention.
There's no blame or no hang upon that, of course.
Definitely.
Saima Haque (07:54):
Mark your book it Was Never About the Food
suggests eating disorders arerooted in deeper emotional or
psychological issues.
How do you help clients,including those with experiences
, like Dr Haque, with peoplestruggling with weight and
eating, and how do you uncoverand address any of these
underlying causes?
Mark Gibson (08:14):
Well, if we start with the beginning, if I talk
about the depth of eatingdisorders, I specialize.
More of my work has been donewith anorexia and bulimia,
meaning being underweight, or alot of people with bulimia
struggle with what they callcompensatory behaviors, which is
compensating for calories takenin, like purging,
(08:38):
overexercising, diet pills, dietpills.
So I've spent a lot of time athigher levels of care inpatient,
where people are oftentimesbedridden for a while.
So I wanted to just kind ofcapture that beginning part
first, because we have this onthe spectrum of where treatment
(08:58):
can be and when it's on that endof the spectrum it is a lot of
stabilization.
At the beginning I have peoplethat oftentimes come in and
their heart rates are extremelylow or they haven't had a
menstrual cycle for a year, andso it requires, I mean, if I
I've had some people that comein where I had to send them to
Stanford right away, and whenyou go to Stanford you go to a
(09:21):
bed until your vitals arestabilized and you do not move,
and so I have that end of thespectrum.
And then what a lot of times.
What we're talking about herehas to do with kind of
developing a healthyrelationship with food overall
kind of combating dietingconcepts and mentalities and
(09:43):
with them.
To be honest, in my career Ithink I've been horrible at that
treatment because people don'tstick with me long term because
my focus is about more intuitiveeating, which is kind of what
you're you're hinting at Anitais throughout your lifetime
(10:05):
having this diet, and then yourealize Anita is throughout your
lifetime having this diet andthen you realize, wow, I'm still
hungry.
So we still have that primitivepart of our brain that's saying
I need more food, and so we'rebattling that with messages of
body image judgment that comefrom society, and so it gets to
be extremely confusing.
(10:26):
But I'm trying to now teachthis intuitive eating process
and it's flies in the face, Ithink, a lot of what is norm in
our society, which is fastacting, quick weight loss, and
it just doesn't sustain.
And so I start talking aboutintuitive eating, which is
connected to mindfulness andhonoring hunger and fullness,
(10:51):
and most people are looking fora quick change and I end up kind
of struggling with them.
But, if I talk about the initialphase of stabilization, it's
amazing what starts to happen,which is I move to that next
phase, which I kind of callfiguring it out.
And when people get stabilizedand they're nourished and
(11:14):
they're feeling good and theystart to participate in life, is
when that underlying aspects ofwhat might be at the core of an
eating disorder starts to cometo the surface.
And that's where the long termwork is and that can be.
I mean, I've seen people theirentire, I mean, since I started
(11:36):
in this field.
There are some people that Istill see on a maintenance kind
of basis.
So, yeah, on a maintenance kindof basis, so, um, yeah, that's.
It's quite a wild ride and intothose spectrums that I was
talking about.
Saima Haque (11:51):
I'm sure it's great to have your support.
Dr, Ha, yes, definitely.
How did your personalexperiences with weight
influence your approach tohelping patients at Haute
Chiropractic with nutrition andwellness?
Dr. Anita Haque (12:06):
I think it's a huge, integral part of the way
that I practice, the way I speakto patients, not just because
of my own personal experience,but because I also now really
understand the value of how foodis medicine and or it could be
poison.
You know, on the other end ofthe spectrum.
(12:27):
But in the sense of even withtheir treatments and getting
repair with their chiropracticcare, you know their nutrition
and how much inflammatory foodsor what they're feeding
themselves is going to impactthe results that they're also
going to receive from not onlytheir adjustments but holding
their adjustments, seeing theimprovement, having the
inflammation come down.
There's so much in our dietthat impacts that.
(12:48):
So that is definitely somethingthat's at the forefront.
But beyond that, for me, mypersonal experience in terms of
some even Mark what you werebringing up you know you have
you know the anorexia and thebulimia.
I think I've had all of thosethings and so I feel comfortable
opening up to patients andsharing that with them, making
sure that they know it's a safeplace for them to know that.
(13:11):
You know there is noperfectionism here, that we're
all dealing with our emotionsand sometimes the way that we
deal with our emotions isfeeding our emotions with food
or a substance or something likein that realm and I'm, you know
, being aware of that allows meto kind of ask, maybe certain
questions so that patients canfeel more comfortable to share
(13:33):
that with me and open up thatconversation.
So that allows me to maybe givethem some more direction,
whether they need to speak tosomebody, maybe more severely
talking to Mark, maybe us justhaving a conversation about hey,
you know, when you're stressed,you went to doing you know this
activity which was, you know,eating that junk food.
I resonate, I did that samething.
Here's what else you can doinstead.
So, having that conversation,because I really feel that part
(13:56):
of the care that every singlepatient gets in my office is not
just the adjustment but it'sthe experience of uplifting
their health, maybe making thatlittle bit of a pivot, a change
besides the adjustment that canmaybe set them on a better
course for health.
Saima Haque (14:12):
It totally makes sense, Mark.
You've worked with eatingdisorders across inpatient and
outpatient settings for 20 years.
What's a common misconceptionabout eating disorders that
you'd like to debunk for ourlisteners?
What's?
Mark Gibson (14:25):
a common misconception about eating
disorders that you'd like todebunk for our listeners.
I know when I saw that questionearlier there's the initial
(14:47):
that I I mean if I just speakjust on observation, if I tell
people what I do, their initialresponse is I have an eating
disorder, do you think you canhelp me?
And they point at their belly.
And I say that because I meanjust at that point I just kind
of will smirk a little bit andsay like yeah, I mean I can very
much appreciate that side ofthe struggle that people have,
and then I will take thatopportunity oftentimes to
educate people that the otherend of this I mean I think in
(15:11):
the long term, in the long runyou're talking about obesity is
definitely not going to be ableto be sustainable for a healthy
lifestyle and lifespan.
But in terms of the anorexia andbulimia it's in the mental
health world is one of the mostdeadliest mental health diseases
that there is, and so I thinkthat's one of the things that
(15:36):
sometimes will catch people'sattention.
The other thing that I highlightthat oftentimes surprises
people and this is like workingwith, like family groups over my
career is struggling torecognize the function of an
eating disorder in people'slives.
So the idea that when somebodymight purge or restrict or
(15:57):
starve themselves to the pointthat they need to be in a
hospital, most people arethinking like at what point is
kind of the rational mind goingto kick in and you're just going
to eat, or how could peopleenjoy throwing up, and they
struggle to recognize that thereis a function to that.
(16:18):
So the idea with anorexiaoftentimes it reduces the
ability to recognize thingsgoing on in the world around
them.
So for anxiety, when you aremalnourished you don't have the
same level of anxiety.
It goes down With bulimia.
It's in that moment it verymuch is a numbing agent and if
(16:41):
there's intensity going onaround, that experience is very
soothing in the moment forpeople.
And that's that's been the oneart where people just look at me
and go like I just can't wrapmy head around it, and so that
probably to me is one of thebiggest misconceptions of it.
Saima Haque (17:03):
That's great.
I never, I never even thoughtabout that.
Oh, your malnutrition couldimpact your, your psyche, like
that yeah it makes sense.
Yeah, anita, you've describedbreaking free from negative,
negative cycles with the help ofyour husband, don, and adopting
self-love as part of yourhealth equation, and mark you
focus on behavioral changethrough therapy.
(17:25):
What are some key steps someonecan take to break from these
cycles of anxiety or disorderedeating, mark?
Maybe you could share first.
Mark Gibson (17:38):
Breaking from the cycles of disordered eating or
anxiety.
Well, let me start with theidea of the cycles, if we talk
about anxiety.
I let me start with the idea ofthe cycles.
If we talk about anxiety, Ithink it's really important.
Most of my education startsthere, which is understanding
the function of emotions, asopposed to breaking free of
anxiety.
The function of it is it keepsus alive, so we don't want to
(18:03):
break free from it.
Learning how to regulate it orthe other side to it, if we
think about the other part ofanxiety, is helping us to
prepare.
So if I am doing this podcast,guess what some of the anxiety
leading up to it did for me.
I started doing some research,looking through questions.
(18:25):
I've done a lot of movingaround lately, so I haven't
spent a lot of time doingpresentations, so I'm going to
go in and utilize some of thatanxiety to help me get prepared,
and so that's one of the thingsthat I that is a big focus of
mine is re-educating people tolearning to really embrace
emotions and utilize them forwhat they're for.
(18:45):
Um, so yeah, that's a that's abig part of this that makes
sense.
Saima Haque (18:53):
And anita and yourself like how did you um
break free from your negativecycles to adopt, like self-love,
part of your health, so journey?
Dr. Anita Haque (19:02):
kind of I.
I like what you said, mark,there about how it's not
necessarily breaking free.
You know, kind of lead to myanswer here too.
So just so the listeners knowmy equation that I've come up
with for health, or more optimalhealth is falling, so optimal
health is falling, so optimalhealth is equal to love to
(19:27):
yourself and others.
So that's a big one.
Love and being healthy leads tohappiness.
So that's kind of the equation.
Sorry, I'm reversed it, so letme go start off again.
So, basically, being loving toyourself, being loving to others
and being as healthy as you canbe through all the things right
(19:50):
your sleep, your eating, yourmovement, all those things,
thinking healthy, that's reallywhat leads to optimal, like joy
and happiness in my life.
And that's kind of the equationthat I put out, you know,
through the books I've writtenand things like that, or even
for patients.
So you know in terms of youknow breaking free, it's in the
equation.
And what's really in theequation in terms of even though
(20:11):
it's not necessarily breakingfree, but maybe breaking free
from that negative thing you'redoing to yourself, comes from
that part of the equation ofself-love.
I often have found that throughmy own self dialect.
I'm kinder to others than I amto myself in the past and I've
had to recognize why am I beingso mean to myself, like I would
(20:34):
never say this to any of you, Iwould never pick on you on
something like that.
Why am I doing this to myself?
Which was kind of an awarenessfor me to break some of the
cycle of negativity that I wasdoing to my body or doing with
the purging, or doing with thestarving, you know, starting
becoming kinder to myself, whichreally is self-love, and that
(20:56):
led me into more of okay, myself-love is, you know, being
kinder to myself.
But also part of self-love isself-discipline and self-respect
.
So maybe my discipline, myself-discipline, isn't not
necessarily not eating, but it'sbeing disciplined to not purge,
to not starve to, to not be soharsh on myself.
So that's kind of one of theways that for myself, I feel
(21:19):
like it's my behaviors learn tochange and shift, so I wasn't
going back to those same badhabits that we often tend to do,
if that makes sense.
Mark Gibson (21:30):
Yeah, I was thinking about the second part
of it.
You mentioned disordered eatingaspect of it.
I talked about the emotionalside but the idea of patterns
that people fall into and youwere talking about finding that
balance with calories into, andyou were talking about, you know
, finding that balance withcalories of how they are viewed.
I remember early on in mycareer I think it very much was,
(21:52):
if we're talking aboutstabilization the belief a lot
of times that differenttreatment centers that I was a
part of was a calorie is just acalorie and that was the focus
on just re getting refed and wedidn't care how it happened and
that was oftentimes what peoplehave done about malnourishment,
(22:13):
with anorexia, and as I think Igrew in my career and started
talking to different or maybeit's just a natural part of
progression in life, when youlearn, learn more and you start
working with differentprofessionals is starting to
really appreciate the quality offood and how people are gaining
(22:34):
weight, because oftentimes youwould find that if the focus
early on in stabilization wasjust about getting weight put on
, people oftentimes when theywould leave, would struggle with
overeating, and so we startedto find more of that balance
where, well, a calorie is justnot a calorie.
(22:55):
And then, anita, you kind ofhighlighted where but a calorie
can also be celebratory,especially in the short run.
So, and oftentimes kind ofbreaking free from that, I run
into people I don't know if youguys have ever heard of
orthorexia, but it's really anobsession that people can
develop around healthy foods andwith them.
(23:18):
It's another process ofbreaking free from the idea of
like, hey, it's your child'sbirthday, this is part of the
celebration being present withyour child and being able to
have cake.
Or I run into professionalsthat can't go out to lunch with
(23:39):
other coworkers because theydon't know where they're going,
they don't know who's preparingtheir food, and so their world
gets very restrictive.
And then the idea of breakingfree of that cycle is exposure
therapy.
You got to turn over control tosomebody else, trusting that
there's going to be somethingthere that's going to fit within
(24:02):
a process that's going to serveyour body well.
And we still might have thosetimes where we have an inkling
for some dessert or something.
Even that is part of connectingTalk about celebration, but
just social connections.
Dr. Anita Haque (24:18):
You made such a good point.
Sorry, I just want to say thispart because you know, mark, I
had a patient, younger patient,she's 17.
And she often asks me about herdiet when she comes in for
adjustments and she trackseverything.
I know that there's a lot ofpeople who use these trackers
for everything they eat and theytrack, you know, all the
(24:39):
macronutrients, it's how muchprotein, how many calories, how
many carbs per meal.
She brings me her charts, DrHaque.
Look, this is what I puttogether and I remember saying
kind of what you just touched on, mark, is, you know, I'm glad
that you're making a foodjournal, you're being aware.
But this can also becomeunhealthy because you know the
calorie count from an applelet's say that's 80 calories for
(25:01):
a medium-sized apple is notgoing to be the same value of 80
calories from, let's say, acandy bar that you might consume
.
So you don't want to get soobsessed on the numbers.
As opposed to the wherewithal,the logic of knowing this is
nourishing.
For me to eat, this is a treatfor me to eat, this is joyful.
And then when you eat a treat,the hardest thing I know I've
(25:25):
had to overcome to in the pastis okay, if I'm going to have a
treat let's say I'm going to goout to dinner because you're
right, orthorexia could besomething that's prominent,
maybe even my life, where I amvery focused on healthy eating.
But if I'm going to eatsomething bad and then spend the
next three hours thinking about, oh my God, I just ate this
dessert, oh, shame on me.
(25:46):
You're kind of discipliningyourself internally that I
shouldn't have eaten thatchocolate cake.
I ate so well all day and thenI had that piece of chocolate
cake and I ruined my whole diet.
People have that hangup.
I know I've had that hangup asopposed to knowing, hey, I'm
enjoying this treat of achocolate cake.
I eat healthful foods all dayand now I'm not thinking about
(26:07):
it, I'm just going to enjoy it.
And doing that you're not evenraising your cortisol
necessarily as much on acellular level, which could hurt
you and make you put on moreweight from the stuff that
you're eating and feeling guiltyabout.
So there's so many complexitiesto how we eat and how we count
foods that sometimes I feel thatwhen I speak to the patient I
was mentioning toss it away,stop worrying about all the
(26:30):
details.
Let's focus on the granderpicture here.
You know you want to eat reallyhealthy things and kind of move
forward yeah.
Mark Gibson (26:36):
Well, that kind of speaks sometimes to the
intuitive.
Eating too Is, yeah, I think,when people are learning to eat.
Sometimes I've used the numberof calories from the standpoint
of hey, let's look at thescience now behind what you
think you're doing, to highlighthow the relationship to it is
(27:00):
so misinformed that when theyactually find out how much
they're eating and it's notanywhere near what their body
actually needs sometimes I findout they're not even getting
what their brain would consumein a normal day, and so it can
be utilized to help debunk some,some philosophies they might
have.
And then, on the other end, I'mlike, well, yeah, if you were a
(27:25):
olymp like Michael Phelps, it'simportant to know how many
calories are going to your bodybecause you're trying to perform
at this elite level.
But in general, what you kind offind is most people as I'm back
to having that discussion asmuch as I can when they get
stabilized of your body and yourmind, if you're connected to it
(27:45):
will let you know what it needs.
If you get really in tune withit, connected to it will let you
know what it needs.
If you get really in tune withit, it actually can start to let
you know what kinds of foodit's asking for.
So, like the idea of carbsyou're talking about, like the
Atkins diet, like well, that cutout really efficient or
necessary carbs that give ourbody energy, that when people do
(28:07):
that, they end up then at somepoint running out of energy and
then what do they do?
Saima Haque (28:13):
it's yeah, everybody's asking for energy.
Mark Gibson (28:16):
So what?
What are you gonna start tocrave and so?
But I'm just like I'd rathernot get to the point where your
body's without it before itkicks in, where we start to
connect to it on a day-to-daybasis that makes sense I just
wanted to move over into whatmark kind of specializes in
which is the dialecticalbehavioral therapy?
Saima Haque (28:37):
I want to understand how individuals like,
maybe, anxiety and eatingdisorder symptoms, like an
athlete um, how it can help themwith managing the pressure of
weight struggles or how tomanage their eating habits.
So what does dialecticalbehavioral therapy do?
Mark Gibson (29:02):
Well, if I break it down, a dialect, if I define
that for people, first is theidea that as human beings, we
have the capacity to experiencetwo opposing thoughts or
emotions at the same time.
Dialectical behavior therapystands on the relationship
(29:23):
between acceptance and change.
At their core, they're veryopposite, but there's a
paradoxical relationship betweenthe two of them, and that is if
you haven't accepted what'shappening or where you're at the
idea of doing change doesn'thappen.
So oftentimes people end upfighting against themselves that
(29:45):
anxiety has shown up or I havethis intensity going on and it
prevents them from actuallydoing something about it.
So it's just like DBT is suchthis bigger picture concept from
a behavioral standpoint, butit's broken down into four
modules, and there's twoacceptance-based modules and two
(30:09):
change-based modules, and theacceptance-based is mindfulness
and distress tolerance, and sothe change ones have to do with
emotion regulation andinterpersonal effectiveness, and
that's where you're working onimproving relationships.
I've talked about anxietyearlier, the idea of utilizing
(30:30):
anxiety.
Some people, the anxiety showsup and they're so frustrated
with themselves that, you know,somebody told me not to worry
anymore.
However, here I am worrying.
What do I now do?
And if I am stuck with the ideathat there's something wrong
with me that I'm worrying.
It's tough to go to theregulatory process, which is I
(30:53):
got to do something with this,is it justified or not?
And then I can start utilizingit.
Now in the sports world, ifwe're talking about not just
sports but performance ingeneral, I find myself utilizing
mindfulness as the foundationof people's work, and that is
(31:14):
really tuning in to the idea ofwhat is happening to me
internally with my thoughts,with my body and I don't know.
There there's a.
If you look at the, theresearch and the years in which
people spend practicingmindfulness.
(31:35):
Um, I've been, I've done.
In the stuff that I've read,they talked about the idea of 20
minutes a day of practicingmindfulness, and that is there
is like meditation, and thenthere's mindfulness.
We hear about meditation fromthis idea of this soothing,
calming kind of experience,mindfulness at its core.
(31:57):
I try and get people.
You sit with yourself and yourbrain, you remove other
distractions and you're learningto work and understand what is
happening inside of you, and forsome people that is very scary
and very uncomfortable and hencewhy I say go, do that work to
(32:22):
regulate emotions or perform ata really high level you got to
learn to be aware of what'shappening in the moment in order
to work with it.
Saima Haque (32:34):
Well, that's one of the next questions I was going
to ask you actually was did youcould share, like a specific you
know therapy skill?
So, listeners, could you knowpractice or resonate with
overwhelmed by anxiety or foodtriggers?
Mark Gibson (32:50):
Yeah, I kind of jumped ahead with it.
But yes, mindfulness, for sureis that, but it's one of those
things that I wouldn't call it aspecific skill as opposed to a
practice that helps to improveand shape your brain.
That helps to improve and shapeyour brain so you are ready for
(33:19):
things like difficult emotionsthat come your way, or pressure
that comes your way, intenseanxiety, or if I'm having, I'm
getting dressed in the morningand here I am looking myself in
the mirror and I can't seemyself leaving the house because
I'm so overwhelmed by my bodyimage.
Right now, I have found this isjust in the years that I've
(33:41):
been working in the field andteaching DBT.
There's a skill that they call.
It's kind of I mean, anita, youwould know about this like
working with cold therapy, butcold immersion, but just you
almost do it with just your headand just holding your breath
and putting your face into coldwater has an amazing ability of
(34:06):
like it drops your heart rate,which shocks your body.
Yeah, it's called like a divereflex and you have so when that
happens, oftentimes, if youhave this such as contrast of
this intensity going on, thenall of a sudden your body, heart
rate, blood pressure, all thatstuff kind of dumps real quick
(34:28):
and it provides sometimes thatspace for people to tune in a
little bit more, to more theirrational or wise mind, where if
I'm having this experiencesometimes people are like it's
almost like delusional.
What they think they're thinkin the mirror at times and if
the intensity is high that canreally help bring it down rather
(34:51):
quickly.
Especially with panic attacksor those kind of things.
It's a game changer.
Usually people will come backafter that and go, wow, that one
hits home quick, almost to thepoint where I tell people that
if they actually have lowerheart rates already, do it
sitting down, because it canhave that much of an impact,
(35:13):
because it can almost likecreate where people might pass
out.
Saima Haque (35:18):
Well, that's a quick fix.
Mark Gibson (35:19):
It is as quick as it gets.
Saima Haque (35:24):
I just wanted to end the podcast with a health
hack from both of you, ifpossible.
I just wanted to find out fromVivianita first that's somebody
who's overcome personalchallenges with weight and Mark
yourself as a therapist, who yousupport so many people in
recovery what's a health hackyou can offer to our listeners
who feel stuck in theirstruggles with anxiety, eating a
(35:47):
body image, and maybe V couldshare first?
Dr. Anita Haque (35:49):
that'd be great , yeah, you know, um, I had to
do a few things and this is thehack that I would like to share,
that I've lived and I still useat times.
One is I like to take a deepbreath before I eat.
It's just a quick hack, kind oflike resetting, sometimes for
(36:11):
anxiety purposes.
You're not breathing enough.
Number one, you're doing ashallow breathing situation, so
you're not even as logicalbecause of that.
So sometimes you know, justtaking a moment, full inhale,
full exhale, um, can help me tokind of get more rational, uh,
calm down my nerves and,especially before I eat, it
(36:36):
starts to focus me a little bitmore on let's enjoy this meal,
because one of the things I usedto do when I was anxious or I
was eating not because I wastrying to nourish my body, but I
was trying to feed an emotionor settle down a negative
emotion in my body is I wouldeat in a numb form, so meaning
(36:57):
eating without thinking about it, eating while I'm watching a
screen on a phone call, I'mdoing something else, so I'm not
focused on actually nourishingmyself.
I'm kind of, you know, doingthis in the past.
So that was a big thing for meto recognize that pattern and in
(37:17):
order for me to recognize thatpattern.
It helps me now is to take thatdeep breath before I eat to
make sure okay, let me make sureI'm calm here too.
What am I feeling right nowbefore I eat, asking myself that
question am I really hungry oram I just feeling scared, upset,
angry, anxious?
All of those feelings Do I needto recognize that first?
(37:38):
So sometimes taking that deepbreath allows me to ask that
question of you know, am Ireally hungry or am I just
feeding something else?
So that was another way that Iremember having to break myself,
maybe out of the pattern.
The other thing that led intoyou know kind of this hack is I
(38:00):
made mistakes all the time.
I still do, even with eating.
So I have to often remindmyself forgive you, forgive me,
like forgive myself for maybenot being perfect, forgive
myself for maybe doing what Isaid I wasn't going to do,
because I'm human, just like Iwould forgive someone else,
right?
You know I mentioned thatearlier about you know, treating
yourself like you would treatsomebody else.
(38:22):
So forgiveness is a big part ofthat hack for me, of knowing
that I'm not going to be perfectand I don't need to be perfect,
because there's no such thing.
But am I progressing?
Am I getting just a little bitbetter than I was?
And forgiveness is a part ofthat, forgiving myself for maybe
having something I said Iwouldn't eat or, you know, like
I said, having the extra treatbut enjoying it more.
(38:44):
So, with that forgiveness and Ialready mentioned this to you
both, you know, treatingyourself like a friend kind of
goes into that self-love.
So I think that those are mymain hacks is taking that deep
breath, taking a moment, askingyourself if you're really hungry
for this.
You know, sometimes you need tojust sort of take that numbness
out of what we always do as apattern.
Saima Haque (39:03):
You know I love that Taking the time to pause.
Mark Gibson (39:07):
Yeah.
Saima Haque (39:08):
And know yourself.
What about for you, mark?
Do you have a?
Yeah?
Mark Gibson (39:13):
another word that when I was reading the question,
the thing that jumped out wasthe word stuck, and I'm going to
take a little bit of adifferent angle.
I love what you said, anita,about some of the more
in-the-moment work.
I thought about it from theattaching it, from the angle of
(39:36):
I use the word transparency andin order to get unstuck.
I think a lot of times peopleover time get very stuck in
their lives because their secret, their struggles, are more
internal and inward and theyhide, and oftentimes because
they feel ashamed or feelembarrassed or guilty or just
(40:00):
anxious and stuck and the ideaof and it just those, what we
wrote, what we put down withanxiety, eating body image.
It thrives in secrecy Becauseoftentimes we end up feeling
like, but understandable thoughit's understandable how people
get there, because it'suncomfortable and I don't you
(40:21):
know, you end up you protect itmore when nobody else knows
about it.
And so the idea of gettingunstuck, just being transparent,
and that can be as simple asopening up to your chiropractor,
opening up to your primarydoctor, a family member Not
(40:42):
oftentimes do I get the initialcall from somebody that this is
their time to be transparent.
It's usually they are.
Somebody else has said to themyou need more help and we got to
get this ball rolling.
But usually it will happen,oftentimes with anorexia and
bulimia because of health issues, and they can't hide that
(41:02):
anymore.
So that becomes the obviousthing going on.
Can't hide that anymore, sothat becomes the obvious thing
going on.
But in general, if we can learnto be more transparent, we can
get proactive in some of thesechanges that go on.
So I kind of think of thatseems to be the one that jumped
out to me the most is just theidea of being transparent and
(41:24):
not hiding.
Saima Haque (41:26):
Yeah, that's amazing.
Yeah, just recognition foryourself too.
You guys both have sharedwonderful hacks with the
listeners, and I'm not sure if,anita, you wanted to end off
anything.
Definitely.
Dr. Anita Haque (41:41):
I just want to say you know, mark, you're such
a great resource.
We're so happy to have you ontoday on this podcast and we'll
show your information withlisteners if they want to get in
touch with you to maybe getsome more therapy, some
assistance, because I think that, like you mentioned, your hack
kind of being more transparent.
(42:01):
That's why we're having thisdiscussion.
I want all of us to be able tohave more of a normalcy around
this topic, because it is a lotin secret and it was a lot in
secret for me too until you canadmit it and know that, hey, I'm
not alone.
So many of us are dealing withthis on different levels, but
(42:23):
the more we share, the more wecan kind of say, okay, I'm not
alone in this, you're like me,I'm feeling the same way.
We can kind of be there foreach other and hopefully get on
a healthier pathway.
So thank you both so much fortoday and for sharing your
insights.
It means a lot.
Mark Gibson (42:38):
Well, I appreciate the invite.
Like I said, I have been in myrecent moves I've been staring
at the screen just doing myday-to-day grind of work.
So getting to spread out andconnect with other professionals
in a different way and doingpresenting and have that kind of
thing has been a nice littlechange to my getting more
(42:59):
settled into this new area.
Dr. Anita Haque (43:03):
So awesome.
Yeah, no, thank you.
Well awesome, we're happy tohave you yeah no, thank you.
Intro/Close (43:10):
Thank you for tuning in to Haque's Health
Health Hacks podcast.
We hope today's discussion hasprovided valuable insights into
achieving and maintaining yourhealth.
Remember your well-being is ourpriority.
Visit us at haquechiropractic.
com or call 925-960-1960 tolearn more or schedule an
(43:32):
appointment.
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