December 17, 2025 • 44 mins
Most people are told solar is “set it and forget it.” We pull back the curtain on why that myth costs owners money, risks safety, and jeopardizes warranties—and what smart O&M looks like when it’s done right. With guest Amanda Bybee, CEO of Amicus O&M Cooperative, we explore the full life of a solar asset from turn‑on to decommissioning, and the simple steps that keep arrays producing at their potential.
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Episode Transcript
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SPEAKER_00 (00:00):
The solar energy market has become increasingly
saturated, leading to widespreadmisinformation and a lack of
transparency.
Welcome to the Harmon SolarPodcast, offering a
straightforward, honestperspective on going solar.
Each episode dives into keytopics to help you better
understand the industry.
Our goal is to educate andempower you to make informed
(00:20):
decisions about solar energy.
While solar may not be the rightfit for everyone, we believe
everyone should take the time toexplore it.
Our mission is to increase yourknowledge, not your builds.
SPEAKER_04 (00:33):
Hi, welcome to another edition of the Harman
Solar Podcast.
I'm Rob Fromano, VP of Sales andMarketing at Harman Solar.
And with me, as always, mypartner, kind of my friend, it's
Ben Walshlager.
Ben?
SPEAKER_01 (00:44):
I'm always kind of your friend.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (00:47):
You're kind of our my friend.
SPEAKER_01 (00:48):
Yeah.
Yeah.
A little bit of a differentlayout here we have today.
You can still see our studio.
Yeah.
It's there.
I'm almost sitting in the chair.
You're floating above it.
It's floating above it.
Yes.
Well, tell us what's different.
Well, it's different because wehave a guest, and the guest is
not in Arizona, so we could notinvite her to the studio.
So we decided to do this via um,you know, streaming or Zoom or
(01:10):
whatever you want to call it.
Restream.
SPEAKER_03 (01:12):
Virtually.
SPEAKER_01 (01:13):
Virtually, that's the word I was looking for.
Thank you.
So welcome to the podcast,Amanda Bibee, who is the CEO of
Amicus OM Cooperative.
SPEAKER_05 (01:21):
Thanks so much for having me.
SPEAKER_01 (01:22):
Yeah.
And you're in Colorado.
SPEAKER_05 (01:24):
I am sunny Colorado.
SPEAKER_01 (01:26):
Sunny, warm Colorado right now.
And that is not sarcasm we heardearlier.
That is a true, true fact.
SPEAKER_05 (01:33):
Yes, it's a weird fall and winter so far.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (01:36):
It's a good solar day today, apparently.
SPEAKER_05 (01:38):
Great solar day, nice and cool and very bright
sun.
Although we can tell that angleof incidence goes down in the
wintertime.
Like it's such a dramatic shift.
And our days are so short, theyend at 4 30 is sunset.
Wow.
Yeah.
Because we're we're pretty closeto the solstice.
So we're nearing the the lowest,darkest of the year.
SPEAKER_01 (02:00):
That's right.
So Ben, first.
Yes, Ralph.
SPEAKER_04 (02:03):
What are we talking about?
SPEAKER_01 (02:04):
Let's let's get to know Amanda a little bit.
Okay.
Amanda, tell us who you are,what you do, how you became the
CEO of Amicus OM Cooperative,and all great things about you.
And end it with a fun fact.
SPEAKER_05 (02:15):
Oh, all right.
So I have been in solar 23 yearsin January.
Uh I got my start in Austin,Texas, working at a nonprofit
organization that was advocatingfor solar and uh renewable
energy friendly policies.
So that was my my start.
And then I worked at a solarcompany in Austin for a little
(02:37):
bit before I moved to Colorado.
And I moved here right after thestate had passed its statewide
renewable energy goals.
And we were in the rulemakingperiod before the utility
started offering solar rebates.
And I joined this little babystartup company called Namaste
Solar.
SPEAKER_03 (02:55):
Ah, okay.
SPEAKER_05 (02:56):
So I was like number five full-time employee on
payroll.
Um, and I was there for over 11years and got to help grow that
company.
And it's Namaste Solar is a verycool company.
It's employee-owned, certified BCorp, really very values forward
kind of company in the way thatthey conduct their business.
(03:17):
Um, so love Namaste Solar and itwas a great informative
experience.
It is, as I mentioned, anemployee-owned cooperative.
And when we started learningabout cooperatives and the
cooperative structures, we gotreally into it.
So not only did we convertNamaste Solar into an
employee-owned cooperative, butwe co-founded Amicus Solar,
(03:40):
which is the purchasingcooperative that Harmon is a
part of.
And then a few years after that,some a subset of the members of
Amicus Solar started the CleanEnergy Credit Union, which is a
financial cooperative.
And then right around the timethat we got the charter for the
Clean Energy Credit Union, wesubmitted a grant application to
(04:04):
the Department of Energy SunshotInitiative to start Amicus OM
Cooperative.
So I moved over to run Amicus OMCooperative full-time in 2017
and have been here now almostnine years.
unknown (04:18):
Wow.
SPEAKER_05 (04:18):
So that's my story.
And my fun fact is that I am awoodworker.
Oh I like to make rusticfurniture uh largely out of
Beetle Kill pine because we havea lot of that here in Colorado,
and it's very beautiful.
SPEAKER_04 (04:33):
So those doors behind you, you made those?
SPEAKER_05 (04:35):
I did not make these doors.
SPEAKER_03 (04:41):
Aren't they great?
SPEAKER_01 (04:42):
We'll edit that out.
Well, that's awesome.
It's good to good to have you onour show.
And hopefully our listeners willlearn everything and anything
about OMs.
So let's start off with what isan OM?
You know, what does the O andthe M stand for?
It's operation and maintenance,you know, um, with solar
systems.
A lot of people think that it'sjust kind of a uh a set it and
(05:03):
forget it.
You know, it's it's on theirhouse, it's on their business,
and it's just gonna do its thingforever.
To an extent, that that part ofthat is true, but every now and
then it does need maintenance.
We do need an inspection and acheckup, make sure things are
tight and things are you knowworking the way that they
should.
And so that's kind of what whatyou do, what we do.
So um, I don't know if you wantto expand on that a little bit
(05:25):
more, go a little bit more indepth with what an OM is.
SPEAKER_05 (05:28):
Yeah, I think that you know, historically in our
industry, we have tended to talkabout solar as set it and forget
it.
But as we've now been maturingas an industry, we know that
that's not entirely true.
And that it is just like anyother uh infrastructural part of
(05:49):
your home or business, they needsome maintenance periodically.
And so I like to say solar is alow maintenance technology, but
it is not a no maintenancetechnology.
And when we talk aboutoperations and maintenance, for
me, that includes everythingfrom once a system has been
(06:09):
turned on all the way to the endof its life cycle.
So, in in that time, you'regonna want to monitor your
system.
So that type of task usuallyfalls to your OM teams.
You're gonna want to dopreventative maintenance,
particularly on larger scale,like commercial and utility
scale systems.
(06:30):
And then you're gonna need tomake repairs from time to time.
And that will cover the the bulkof the lifetime of your system
is monitoring, preventative, andcorrective maintenance.
And then at the end, you maywant to decommission your
system.
And that's where we take itdown, recycle all the parts, and
(06:50):
um hopefully install the nextiteration of your solar system
on the same location.
SPEAKER_01 (06:55):
Yeah, and I think as technology continues to advance,
there's going to be thoseopportunities for more and more
um OMs.
You know, think of theautomotive industry.
You know, back then you just hadan engine and four wheels, and
the car would just, you know,ran.
You didn't really need a wholelot of you know work to it.
But I have a 2023 car, and thereare so many electronics things,
(07:17):
and there's so many differentthings that could go wrong, and
recalls and this and that.
Same thing with solar, you know,back in the old days with solar,
you just had your solar panelsand inverters.
Now you have monitoring and youhave this and you have all these
other different aspects to itthat just tells people, well,
that's just more points offailure.
That's more things that could gowrong.
That means more things that needto be updated and checked on,
(07:39):
things like that.
SPEAKER_05 (07:40):
That's true.
And I also think that we see assystems age, they tend to need
more maintenance.
So those early systems, youknow, optimally they didn't need
a lot when they were firstinstalled.
But over time, you know, whenyou have any piece of equipment
sitting outside, it is going tosuffer wear and tear because we
(08:02):
put our stuff out thereintentionally to collect the
sun, right?
And UV is one of the harshestenvironmental elements there is.
So between the UV, the wind, thefreeze-thaw cycles, you know,
there's just wear and tear.
And that's nobody's fault.
It's not a defect, it's justwhat happens to the best of us,
(08:24):
right?
Our our bodies are no different.
We need periodic maintenanceourselves, don't we?
SPEAKER_04 (08:29):
This is true.
SPEAKER_05 (08:30):
I think that there is, you know, what's interesting
when you think about operationsand maintenance as a part of the
life cycle of a solar PV system,we really cover the longest
stretch of time because modulesare warranted for 25 years.
So theoretically, our OM role isin effect for 25 years until a
(08:53):
system reaches the end of itslife.
And the more systems that getinstalled, the more of them need
maintenance.
And so I do think that as a partof our industry, we've
historically not gotten as muchattention as installation,
because installing new systemsis sexy.
But you know, maintaining theones that are already there may
(09:17):
not have the same sparklefactor, but I think it's every
bit as important, if notarguably more important, in that
we we're the ones that keep thesystems running, right?
We're the integrity departmentof our industry that makes sure
that our systems perform the waywe said they would.
And so I think of our OMtechnicians as really the heroes
(09:40):
of the industry that keepeverything going.
And when we think about theexpectation of what solar can
contribute to the grid, itdoesn't stop once it's
installed, right?
You have to count on it toproduce that electricity
ongoing.
And that is what we do in OM.
SPEAKER_04 (09:57):
Yeah.
And I think it's so much moreimportant now as we are sitting
here, was it 2020, almost 26,right?
So this industry residentiallyreally took off in 08, is when
it really started going.
So we're about we're hittingnumber close to 20 years now
that some of these systems havebeen on roofs.
And there's so many big players,as we've talked about, Ben, in
the in the last two years thathave just disappeared.
Oh, yeah.
(10:18):
Right.
So there's nobody to monitor andservice these systems.
And now these systems are inneed as they're starting to get
older and older.
So it is critical for thingslike what you're doing.
Now, even Harmon, who's justcurrently in the process of
creating the Harman ServiceClub, which has all these
different options for peoplethat are basically orphaned out
there.
You know, there's all theseorphan systems out there that
need help.
(10:38):
And so our next podcastobviously will be on the Harman
Service Club and the things thatwe're offering to help people in
Arizona.
But yeah, I think this is OM isjust a critical conversation to
start having in this industrybecause now we're old enough to
say, hey, we need help on thethese bodies are getting older,
right?
So these systems are gettingolder.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (10:55):
There's time for maintenance.
We get those calls, you know,from residential and commercial
customers all the time.
Hey, my company went out ofbusiness.
I have no idea if my solarsystem is working.
You know, can you guys help usout?
When we're like, well, we haveno idea if it's working either.
So we we need to go out thereand you know do a full OM on
your system to see what it is,what it's supposed to do, how is
it working, and in andeverything.
(11:15):
So yeah, it's it's it's aninteresting part of the industry
right now.
SPEAKER_04 (11:18):
It's the next iteration of solar, right?
It's this part now.
This is the part I was thinkingabout 12 years ago, going we're
gonna get there eventually, buthere now we're there.
SPEAKER_01 (11:25):
Here we are.
Always the first one to say, Itold you so.
Yep, it's my job.
So Amanda, go into whattypically takes place within an
ONM.
No, not necessarily all the tinydetails, but just high-level.
What should a residential orcommercial um customer look for
when they're doing an OM?
SPEAKER_05 (11:46):
Yeah, so within the the scope of operations and
maintenance, right?
We when we think aboutoperations, a lot of times that
includes the desk job part, likemonitoring your system remotely
to see if it's on.
And when I think aboutoperations for residential
customers, that's really thebulk of it, is just making sure
(12:09):
that your system is functioningand producing the electricity we
expect it to be producing.
With larger scale systems,you're gonna more frequently
have an annual preventativemaintenance inspection.
And this is where a technicianwill come out and do a thorough
overview of the site following achecklist, you know, just like
the auto mechanics do ahundred-point checklist on your
(12:32):
car and you take it in for atune-up.
So they go, they take pictures,they document the state of
everything, they may do somebasic testing to make sure that
everything is functioningcorrectly, clean out filters and
the inverters, what have you.
So the preventative maintenancepiece is to stay ahead of any
potential issues that can turninto a safety hazard or a
(12:54):
performance impediment.
And really, safety andperformance are the top two
reasons that people are going toconduct operations and
maintenance inspections.
But the third reason is alsowarranty preservation, because a
lot of our inverters and keycomponents need to be inspected
routinely to forestall anyissues.
(13:15):
And you need documentation ofthat fact if you ever have to
make a warranty claim.
SPEAKER_01 (13:20):
No, yeah, I I agree.
Um it's it's not just kind of avisual inspection because a lot
of people just look, you know,they think that oh, there's go
out there and it's gonna makesure my panels aren't cracked.
Well, there's more to a solarsystem than just the panels.
You know, there's the wiring,there's the inverters, and you
know, everything inside theinverters, all the inner
workings.
So we need to inspect all thatto make sure it's working.
(13:40):
And then the the unique thingabout it is, you know, we have
these monitoring capabilities.
And so all these OMs that I, youknow, am personally kind of
monitoring on our on our end, Ican see the solar production
change after we've been outthere, you know.
So I'll reach out to a clientand say, hey, your system's only
been performing about you know75% is what it should be.
(14:03):
And like, oh well, my bills havebeen okay, but like, well, 75%
is not 100%.
So let's get out there and seewhat we can we can do.
And after we get out there, wefind issues, we fix this or
tighten that.
I go, hey, now your system isbumped up to 95%.
So that's kind of a cool thingto see after this OM, the
results.
SPEAKER_05 (14:22):
And that's often what we put into the bucket of
corrective maintenance, right?
So you do your preventative andmaintenance inspection, you come
up with a punch list of itemsthat need to be repaired, you do
the corrective maintenance work,and then get the system back up
to its optimal performance.
SPEAKER_01 (14:38):
Yeah, yeah.
And you you mentioned thewarranty thing.
That's another thing I think alot of people forget about.
You know, they just think theythink they have a warranty, so
therefore it's just I can againset it and forget it.
And if there's anything wrong,my warranty will, you know, take
care of it.
But yeah, Ralph, I'm sure you'vedealt with a lot of warranties
in your your industries before.
I'm sure a lot of those warrantycompanies will just say, you
(14:59):
know what?
No, we're not gonna honor thisbecause you fail to maintain it.
SPEAKER_04 (15:03):
Well, yeah, warranty's a tricky game, right?
But I was thinking when you weresaying that, you were talking
about how people think they wantto set it and forget it, which
is typically what they're toldby a salesperson, especially on
the residential side, right?
Sure.
And they'll tell them it hasmonitoring, but they don't
really know what that means.
Yeah.
What that means is that it'scapable of monitoring.
It doesn't mean somebody'sactively monitoring it, right?
SPEAKER_05 (15:22):
That's a really important distinction.
SPEAKER_04 (15:23):
Yeah, it's a really one, it's a big one because we
get those phone calls all thetime from people that say, hey,
my something's wrong.
And we find out their system'sbeen down for three months, four
months, right?
And they've lost out on thatopportunity from solar saving
them money.
Yeah.
No one's actively monitoring it.
The nice thing about what we dohere is we've started using
active monitoring now, and weare actively 24-7 monitoring
every system that we can thatjoins this club, this fleet.
(15:47):
Right.
And that's a big deal, is youhave to have some type of active
monitoring.
Otherwise, that's great.
You have a warranty and it'llreplace a part that was broken,
which typically happen, but thatcould be 90 days after the
problem started.
I was just thinking of thefriend that I had that um her
inverter was out for four monthsand she didn't even realize it.
Yeah.
It's like, uh oh.
SPEAKER_05 (16:06):
Average homeowners aren't checking their inverters
every day to see if the greenlights are on, right?
SPEAKER_04 (16:12):
Right, exactly.
Exactly.
SPEAKER_05 (16:14):
That's a really valuable service that our
companies offer is having aperson actually lay eyes on the
dashboard of your monitoringportal to make sure that it's
performing.
SPEAKER_01 (16:25):
Yeah, I've I've said it before on this podcast, and
I'll say it again.
It's it's like the it's like thecheck engine light of your car.
When the check engine light goeson, the dealership doesn't call
you and go, hey, guess what?
I noticed your check enginelight came on.
No, no, no, you call thedealership.
So it's the same thing withsolar.
When there's an alert or somesort of notification that your
solar system is down, youcontact the the solar company
(16:47):
that installed it or whoever'smaintaining it to say, Hey, I
got an alert, come fix this.
But like I was Ralph was saying,now it's you know a two-way
street.
Now we have the ability toactively monitor it, and
sometimes there will be caseswhere we reach out to you first
and say, We noticed it.
Um, something's wrong.
I'm gonna come out and fix it.
SPEAKER_04 (17:05):
So so as part of an OM, um, are there typical annual
like annual inspections thathappen?
SPEAKER_05 (17:11):
Is that you know, we typically see the regular annual
or sometimes even biannualinspections on larger scale
systems.
If a residential system isperforming as expected, you may
not need to go out there and dothat every year.
I think it's probably wise tohave your system inspected every
so many years, because, like wesaid, you know, they're exposed
(17:34):
to the elements, these start tobreak down.
But I don't even know thatthat's become common practice
just yet.
Um, I think that if forresidential systems, we're doing
good to get active monitoringbecause that's line of defense.
The larger scale systems,because the economics are just
bigger, they better absorb thecost of an annual visit and any
(17:57):
corrective work that may resultout of that.
So you do tend to see that as amore common practice on larger
scale systems.
SPEAKER_04 (18:04):
I know Ben on our commercial stuff, especially,
we've been doing a lot of annualinspections and stuff.
And what kind of stuff do we,I'm assuming you're working with
these guys, what are we seeingwhen we go on those inspections?
What do we find out?
SPEAKER_01 (18:14):
What things do we see that go, oh wow, we didn't a
lot of it is um paneldegradation because there's a
lot of older systems.
Sure.
Um, and you typically don'tnotice it on the residential
side, if you know maybe maybeone panel is is down.
It might make a small impact onyour bill, but on the commercial
side, if one panel is down ordegraded, you're not gonna
(18:37):
notice it at all.
It's gonna be like absolutely noimpact.
But you'll see it on largerscales, like wow, half of this
system.
Um, these these panels have justbeen you know beaten up and
they're just degrading.
So therefore, you know, it'sit's gonna make a huge, huge
financial impact on them.
So we need to, you know, uhreplace these panels.
Um, another issue that we see isthe kind of the same thing with
(18:58):
inverters, they're just old.
Yeah.
And um, I'm not gonna name anynames or anything like that, but
there are some that are like,well, that's inverters just not
around anymore.
This manufacturer is just nolonger in business.
So we need to figure out well,what we we need to exchange a
light for like so that they getthis whole system up and
running, right?
So that's typically what we seeon the commercial side.
SPEAKER_04 (19:18):
What I worry about in Phoenix is the microinverters
because they're up on our roofat 130 degrees in the summer,
and they have to sit there andand get through that heat.
And I mean, it's it's kind ofcrazy.
SPEAKER_05 (19:29):
It is crazy to think about that.
You know, the one other thing Iwould add to what you were just
saying, Ben, about what we see.
I think the other piece is wiremanagement.
SPEAKER_03 (19:37):
Oh, yeah.
Sure.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_05 (19:38):
You know, and when you think about utility scale
systems, some incrediblestatistic, like 95% of utility
scale systems are installed ontracking racking systems.
And you introduce movement, andthat creates all kinds of
problems because you've got nowyour your wires are rubbing in
(19:58):
weird places.
And that can cause a lot ofadditional issues.
And wire management seems likethe simplest thing.
And yet it's really not.
SPEAKER_03 (20:06):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_05 (20:07):
And it's highly impactful in terms of the issues
that we see that lead toinsurance claims and like the
high dollar impacts of failuresa lot of times come from wire or
connector related issues.
SPEAKER_04 (20:21):
Yeah.
That makes sense on a movingsystem.
I didn't even think about thetracking systems.
SPEAKER_05 (20:25):
Yeah.
I mean, an astonishingpercentage of the utility scale
systems are tracking.
SPEAKER_04 (20:31):
Did not know that.
SPEAKER_01 (20:32):
Yeah.
Some of the other things thatwe're seeing too, um, which is
kind of interesting, is a lot ofdamage.
Um, you know, trucks backing upinto canopies, or sometimes even
vandalisms, thing, you know,things like that, which you
don't see typically on aresidential home because no
one's gonna back into your roof.
Um, but yeah, those coveredparking, you know, you have the
(20:53):
the garbage trucks or otherlarge box trucks that come in,
you know, ding it, and that theydon't realize that that's a lot
of damage.
So it takes a lot of work.
So yeah, dealing with those aswell.
SPEAKER_05 (21:04):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (21:05):
But um, so that's kind of like the overview of
OM's, but let's talk a littlebit more about amicus, and it's
it's a cooperative.
What does that mean as you guysare cooperative?
SPEAKER_05 (21:15):
Yeah, so I know the answer.
SPEAKER_01 (21:17):
I'm just for our viewers, Ralph.
I can't you just get that look.
Like, you don't know that I doknow.
SPEAKER_05 (21:22):
Why are you here?
What do you do anyway?
SPEAKER_04 (21:25):
I've asked about a lot.
SPEAKER_05 (21:26):
So amicus O and M Cooperative, there there are
lots of different types ofcooperatives out there, and we
kind of describe ourselves as ashared services cooperative.
So a cooperative structure atits core is a a commercial
entity, a for in our case, weare a for-profit business entity
that has shareholders, in ourcase, the member companies that
(21:51):
own Amicus OM Cooperative.
So Harman Solar is a shareholderand owner of Amicus ONM
alongside the other 53 activemember companies.
So each of you own this company.
You are my bosses.
SPEAKER_04 (22:09):
You work for me.
SPEAKER_05 (22:10):
We are here to support you.
So Amicus OM Cooperative acts asa hub for all these member
companies to help perform OMservices more safely,
efficiently, and profitably.
And that's really our core, ourmission officially, is to
elevate the stewards ofsustainable energy systems.
(22:31):
That's you.
And so what we do for our membercompanies is kind of five parts.
We facilitate a lot of knowledgesharing through regular
meetings, in-person gatherings,an intranet, etc., where you can
work with your counterparts atother companies across the
country and compare notes on thechallenges that you face, the
(22:54):
vendor issues, the um, you know,and how to solve all of this so
that we keep our systems up andrunning.
Uh, we also provide a lot oftools and templates so that our
member companies are literallyworking from the same playbook.
And that allows for a greatersense of standardization across
the industry.
If we're all doing this andapproaching this work the same
(23:15):
way, customers get used toseeing a professional product.
Uh, the third big thing that wedo is training.
Amicus ONM Cooperative has beendeveloping a training program
for OM field technicians.
And this is another huge part oftrying to standardize the way
that we do this work and to keepit safe and efficient is for our
(23:36):
technicians to be really welltrained.
And so we got a grant from thefederal government a couple of
years ago to help support thiswork and to create more
standardization.
We actually worked with a wholebunch of stakeholders, drafted a
four-level technician frameworkthat lays out a whole
professional advancement pathwayfor them.
(23:57):
And we shared that with theindustry associations, with the
solar energy industryassociation and with American
Clean Power.
And SIA actually turned it intoa bona fide American national
standard.
So it was published earlier thissummer.
It's called the SIA 301 ANSIstandard.
And it's about how we traintechnicians to go out and do
(24:20):
this work in the field.
So Amicus ONM Cooperative hasbeen heavily engaged in this
type of work.
We're really passionate about itbecause I think that not only
does that benefit our companiesfrom having more profitable
work, but it benefits thetechnicians by giving them a way
to advance, a way to make moremoney, and a way to see
themselves in these roles formany years because OM work is
(24:43):
good work.
If you don't want to sit behinda desk, this is really like
thought-provoking, it's varied,but it's also really meaningful
work because you're helping keepour systems operational for a
lot longer.
Um, so that's what the trainingthing I could go on for a long
time about that.
But the other two bits that wedo is um we uh provide a lot of
(25:06):
business planning support forthe member companies.
And then we also do uh somebusiness development work, but I
really prefer to call itmatchmaking, because I like to
take a client when they call meand say, Hey, I need help in the
Phoenix area, and I say, Well,you're in luck.
I've got a great company there.
Let me make an introduction.
So I matchmake between clientsand members to help them, help
(25:30):
them grow.
SPEAKER_01 (25:31):
Nice.
Yeah, I like the thestandardization aspect of it
because even though you know thecompanies that are in the
cooperative, you know, on paper,we're all competitors really.
We're competitors on the salesand the install side.
But when it comes to like theOM, you know, I think as a a
homeowner or business owner, wethey know that we're not
competing in that aspect becauseuh the procedures that we follow
(25:54):
as far as the OM, it's it'sstandardized no matter who you
go through.
Um, we're all going to befollowing the same process of
doing that on.
unknown (26:02):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_05 (26:04):
Yeah.
And I I just generally thinkthis is part of the
professionalization andmaturation of our industry.
You know, when you look at HVACor automobiles or hot tubs, I
don't know.
There's there's a lot moreprocesses in place.
And, you know, the same is truefor apprenticeship programs or
(26:26):
for other like educational andprofessional development
pathways.
And so it's just time for us toget these ducks in order and
really deliver thatprofessionalism to our clients
and to our our own people,right?
So I'm really excited about thistoo.
I think it's a it's a big stepforward for the industry as a
(26:47):
whole.
And my first loyalty is to you,my member companies.
SPEAKER_04 (26:51):
What I like about the group, and so I've been more
involved on the other side of itwith Amacus, is even having all
these different different EPCs,just like us, different
installers, all get together andtalk about experiences that
things that they're seeing andtools that you're using that
maybe we had a call last weekwhere myself and our director of
operations was on a callproviding um feedback on a tool
(27:13):
that we use that another fourcompanies that are in the group
wanted to use.
And we gave them our honestfeedback about this is what
we've seen.
Stuff like that's reallyvaluable.
And the industry's been suchsilo, it's been so siloed for
years where everybody's justkind of you know, you worry
about yourself.
Well, you know, we don't want togive away the secrets.
Yeah, and this group is is it'ssharing everything, the
knowledge you just talked about.
(27:33):
I think that's that's invaluablebecause we've learned a lot from
it and we've been able to shareour experience of doing this,
you know, for how many yearswe've been doing it, and it it
really helps the whole groupjust be stronger.
I I enjoy being part of it.
SPEAKER_05 (27:43):
Truly, Ralph, I think that is one of the most
special parts of this community.
And you you were referring tothe Amicus Solar, our our sister
cooperative, they do thepurchasings for both of us, you
know, we we are separate legalentities, but we have a great
amount of overlap in ourownership groups.
And I think culturally we bothreally try to foster that
(28:06):
sharing.
And it's one of the most uniquethings I've seen.
There's you don't see this levelof sharing at a trade show or a
regional conference, right?
And there's a big element oftrust in that, that we trust in
each other, we trust in the factthat we care very deeply about
(28:26):
our customers and about thequality of our work.
We're not here to cut corners,we're not here to screw anybody
over, you know, and I think thatsets us apart from unfortunately
some of the actors that havecome into the marketplace in the
last few years.
SPEAKER_03 (28:39):
Yep.
SPEAKER_05 (28:40):
There is also a real um like a quality stamp that
comes with being a part ofeither Amicus Cooperative.
SPEAKER_04 (28:48):
Yep, I agree.
Really good point.
SPEAKER_01 (28:50):
Yeah.
So what what is the future ofAmicus ON OM Cooperative?
Um, we guys, what are you guyslooking to do?
Obviously, you probably want toget more and more members, but
um, is there a a bigger goalthat you're you guys are trying
to accomplish?
SPEAKER_05 (29:03):
You know, membership is not actually the number one
thing that we look at.
I I think that the vision forwhere we want to go is that we
we want to continue growing thecommunity with the right kinds
of companies that will add tothe collective and bring and be
good participants in thatcommunity.
(29:24):
And of course, they have touphold our commitment to quality
workmanship and to the valuesthat we espouse.
But I think beyond that, whatwe've really seen with this
training program is anopportunity to reach to serve
our member companies and alsoserve the industry writ large by
bringing a quality, four-leveltraining program to the
(29:47):
marketplace because there hasn'tbeen one to date.
And when we submitted that grantapplication to the Department of
Energy, that was really a bigpart of our message was this has
been an overlooked aspect of ourindustry.
We don't have a comprehensivetraining program that serves our
technicians.
We need to develop one.
(30:08):
This is a big part of thisprofessionalizing.
And so we are starting to offerour training program beyond the
membership to companies acrossthe industry.
And it's it's a way for us toexpand our reach without it
always necessarily being afunction of membership growth.
SPEAKER_01 (30:28):
I like that.
Yeah.
Ralph, you got anything?
SPEAKER_04 (30:34):
No.
SPEAKER_01 (30:36):
That sounds about right with Ralph.
SPEAKER_04 (30:38):
I'm trying to let no.
No, it's on you.
SPEAKER_01 (30:40):
No, uh obviously we've touched on that, you know,
having an OM is important.
And um, but what what happens tosay to you know, uh a commercial
client, um or even residentialclient, um, if they decide just
to opt out, I don't want to doon it, not important to me.
(31:01):
I don't see the need for it.
Um, I know we touched onwarranties and and everything,
but uh I see it's more of youknow, you're kind of rolling the
dice, it's a risk.
SPEAKER_05 (31:11):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (31:11):
Or people people say that they want to do it
themselves.
Oh, you laugh, but we havethose.
SPEAKER_05 (31:20):
There's that's a contingent of our clientele for
sure.
SPEAKER_04 (31:23):
I can see it on the residential side, people saying
that, but not on the commercialside.
Well, I guess they would.
SPEAKER_01 (31:27):
I mean, I guess I won't name any names, but I know
one person in particular in thecommercial department they want
to do it themselves.
So like I mean, more power toyou.
SPEAKER_04 (31:34):
On the amicus side, how many um I mean, do you have
do you know how many customersthere are on the entire network
that are that are that have sometype of OM with?
I mean, yeah, you your customer,I guess, is the dealer partners,
correct?
SPEAKER_05 (31:46):
Yeah, my customer is a member company, but the I I
mean, I guess the answer to yourquestion, Ben, is not to be
overly cliched, but an ounce ofprevention is worth a pound of
cure.
And there, you know, when Ithink about what that saying
(32:07):
really means, is that by doing alittle bit of preventative
maintenance to stay ahead ofsomething catastrophic, you're
gonna save money on what couldturn into a very costly repair.
And, you know, imagine if you dohave a wire that's been, you
know, it wasn't properly securedat the time of installation.
(32:28):
And every time the wind blows,it rubs against some metal.
Eventually that's gonna wear offthe jacketing of your wire, and
eventually that's gonna cause afault.
Or if that wire, you know,creates a spark, it could lead
to a fire.
The damage that you're gonnahave to repair from a fire is so
(32:48):
much greater than replacing awire or making sure it's tied
down correctly with a cable tie,right?
Like you think about that, thecost of that inspection and that
cable tie is a couple hundreddollars versus a warranty claim
or a you know, an insuranceclaim of thousands of dollars if
there's fire damage.
(33:09):
And and I just, you know, Ithink when you when you
contemplate that theseinspections are a form of
insurance.
We all pay for insurance that wehopefully never have to use.
But knowing that that policy isthere gives you some peace of
mind that in the event ofanything happening, you're
covered, right?
And I think that doing an activepreventative maintenance visit
(33:33):
is further insurance because itmeans that somebody is who it
with trained eyeballs is comingout to prevent those issues from
ever happening in the firstplace.
SPEAKER_04 (33:44):
Yeah, you know, and I would I would say this too.
We we talk about this in ourpodcast sometimes, but I mean,
as if your residential customer,you've got a power station on
top of your house, right?
Yeah, yeah.
And hopefully Harman installedit.
And if they didn't, I'm notsaying that no one else knows
how to do it, but we've seen thehorror stories, right?
You just never know.
Commercial-wise, the same thing.
You're putting a power plant upon your roof, you just never
(34:05):
know, right?
And it it pays.
If you're gonna invest that typeof money into something like
that, why wouldn't you want toprotect it?
If I go out and buy an$80,000car, I mean, I'm gonna buy
whatever it takes to protectthat car while I'm driving it
because I want to make sure itcontinues to work.
Yeah, right.
This is probably 10 times moreimportant than that because of
the ramifications like you justmentioned.
(34:27):
If something was done wrong,number one, you could lose
savings and this and that, butalso you can lose the building
it's on.
Right.
Um, fires happen all the time.
We've seen fires happen.
I mean, it's it's a reality,right?
We're talking electricity, we'retalking a power plant, and as
technology is changing, and itis, we're seeing more and more
battery storage being installedin different places.
Uh, we're seeing more of themicroinverters being installed.
(34:48):
So now you have a panel with aninverter and you have you know
50, 100, 200 microinverters upon your roof.
One little thing goes wrong.
I mean, poof.
Yeah, so we've seen too much ofthat lately.
SPEAKER_05 (34:59):
We don't mean it need to make it sound like every
solar array is about to go upand no, not the point, but yeah,
but I think this is this isexactly why on is important, is
that it's insurance.
And because we encourage you todo regular visits and to avoid
(35:20):
issues, you know, somesalespeople will say to me,
Well, I don't want to talk aboutOM up front because it makes it
sound like we have this productthat's gonna break.
It's true, and I I completelydisagree with that.
As a consumer, I expect thatwhatever I buy has the potential
to break because things break.
(35:42):
And that doesn't mean that theywere fundamentally defective, it
doesn't mean that they weren'twell made in the beginning or
well installed, but wear andtear happens.
And I actually argue thattalking about operations and
maintenance up front should be apeace of mind for your customer.
It is a differentiation from thecompanies that have not invested
(36:04):
in building and training afull-fledged service and OM
department.
And for me as a consumer, I wantto know who do I call when
something breaks?
And that is absolutely a sellingpoint, not a detraction.
SPEAKER_04 (36:22):
This industry is changing.
Um, this industry is going from,and we've talked about this a
lot, an industry of I call themtrunk slammers, right?
Got guys that are out theretrying to make a quick buck and
just selling solar and gettingit done and making their money
and walking away.
They don't care about thelong-term investment of that
customer and how it's gonna workfor them.
They don't want to talk aboutthe things like this because
they just want to make the sale.
(36:42):
Yeah.
So it's a really good point towhen you're talking to somebody,
whether you're a business oryou're a residential, you want
to know what hopefully they'regonna talk about.
Hey, if something happens, thisis what we provide for you as a
company.
We're in this with you for thelong haul.
It's not a it's not just to getit installed.
That's one of the things right.
It's absolutely this is a 20, 30year relationship that we're
(37:04):
creating together, and that'sthe way to look at it.
And so when you're making thisinvestment, you want that
company or that group that'sgonna be there with you right
along the way to make sure thateverything's okay.
It's just like when you go tothe doctor every year to get
your health check, right?
You want to try to catchsomething early so it doesn't
turn into something major downthe road, right?
I'd rather catch it now.
SPEAKER_05 (37:24):
So yeah, and that's also that that commitment to the
long term and to thatpartnership is what sets amicus
companies apart from the Trumpslammers.
SPEAKER_03 (37:35):
Yep.
SPEAKER_05 (37:36):
We don't let those in because that is not the
values and that is not the waywe want to conduct business.
And so I think there's that'spart of that sort of uh the
vetting process for us is to saywe want companies who are
committed.
They're committed to thisindustry, to this technology, to
their customers, theiremployees.
(37:57):
Like it, it's the whole pictureof how a company behaves that
makes them a good candidate foramicus, either either amicus
solar, amicus ONM cooperative.
Because this is a long-termpartnership.
We believe it should be along-term partnership because we
stand behind our work, we standbehind this technology, and we
(38:18):
will make sure it's right.
SPEAKER_01 (38:21):
Yeah, love it, love it, yep.
So, how can we find you withwebsite, social media?
She's right there.
Yeah, um obviously right here infront of us.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_05 (38:29):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (38:30):
Um personally, how can we find you?
SPEAKER_05 (38:32):
Where do you at least my home address?
I am on LinkedIn.
You can certainly find me there.
Um, and then the amicus onwebsite is amicusom.com.
It looks kind of like Amicusalm.
SPEAKER_04 (38:49):
Okay.
Amicusam.
SPEAKER_05 (38:50):
Amicusalm.
Amicusm.
SPEAKER_04 (38:53):
And they can come to you to look for a local member
if in their area if they want togo solar.
I mean, that's one of the thingsyou'd offer them, right?
SPEAKER_05 (39:00):
I mean, yeah.
So we really focus on all thingsOM related.
Um so while many of ourcompanies are also EPCs, uh,
there are a handful of ourcompanies that strictly do OM
work.
So I think if you're looking foran installer in your area,
you're gonna want to go to theAmicus Solar website.
But Amicus OM, if you're in thatbucket of comp homeowners whose
(39:24):
original installers are now outof business, you can come look
at the Amicus ONM website.
And we have a whole page of ourmember companies where with an
interactive map, you can clickon your state and see who's
nearby.
SPEAKER_01 (39:37):
Yeah, because this is not just a Harman Solar
Arizona podcast.
We're national.
We are national.
We have listeners in otherstates.
So if they're out there lookingfor you know an OM company, I
would say check out the AmicusONM website first to find out
who is, you know, in your state.
SPEAKER_03 (39:52):
Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_01 (39:53):
And go start from there.
SPEAKER_04 (39:54):
Right.
But if you're in Arizona, youbetter look at ours.
Only ours.
Come on, man.
Awesome.
SPEAKER_01 (40:01):
Well, thank you for for coming on our show.
We uh we hope you enjoyed it.
I know Ralph did.
SPEAKER_04 (40:09):
I know Ralph did.
Is there any is there are wemissing anything?
Is there anything else youwanted to talk about or anything
I just want to say before we letyou go?
I mean, did we hit oneverything?
Did Ben do a good job or did hemiss something?
SPEAKER_05 (40:19):
Because I think he did a great job.
I mean, I think what's what'sfun to hear from your
perspective, you know, it was Ienjoy hearing what are the top
things that you see and how dowe get ahead of those?
But um just how do you talk tocustomers about this?
I mean, I obviously I'm superbiased and I I have uh a lot of
(40:40):
suggestions for how we shouldtalk about this, but what do you
find customers care about themost when it comes to the
long-term health of theirsystems?
SPEAKER_01 (40:49):
It's more just it's the financial aspect of it.
Um, we have a list of all of ourcommercial installation
installations that we've doneand um what I do kind of each
month, I take a look at you knowwhat they're producing, what
they should be producing.
And if they're underproducing, Ireach out to them and just say,
hey, your system'sunderproducing, you know, you
might need a an O and M.
And they're like, oh, well, whatwhat what would happen if I
(41:11):
spent X dollar X dollars on anOM?
How is that gonna be a return oninvestment on my bill?
So I kind of go over thataspect, like, well, your
system's only producing 25% ofwhat it should, so it's gonna be
a huge impact to you know, us toget out there and fix whatever's
wrong with it.
So a lot of a lot of clients, itis the financial aspect.
Um, not too many of them areworried about, you know, the
(41:32):
dangers and fire and all thatstuff.
They're more worried about likebottom line, the dollar aspect.
SPEAKER_04 (41:38):
So and on the residential side, I think it's
especially now at the impendinglaunch of the Harman Service
Club, it's it's more aboutcreating the partnership and
more talking about, hey, we wantto be in this with you together
for the next 30 years.
So it's really important thatyou're part of this.
You, you know, we become part ofthis club.
We're gonna be watching yourback, we're gonna be watching
your system.
And when they get that firstcall from us when they're not
(42:00):
expecting it to say, hey, we'venoticed something, we're gonna
come out.
That's that's valuable, right?
SPEAKER_01 (42:04):
Yeah, yeah.
I think on the residential side,it's not about money, you know,
the financial aspect or youknow, or fires or whatever.
They're more worried about, areyou guys gonna be around?
SPEAKER_04 (42:13):
We're gonna be there because they're seeing what's
going on the last couple ofyears, you know, and they're
like, Are you guys gonna bethere?
And hey, you've been there for50 years, so yeah, a good bet,
you know, going forward, you'reprobably gonna be there.
SPEAKER_01 (42:22):
Yeah, because a lot of them, their system is fine,
working, everything's great andeverything.
They're just more worried aboutlike if something happens down
the road, I need someone tocall.
SPEAKER_04 (42:30):
And I think for us, our big story is, and we've
talked about this all the time,is how diversified we are in our
business, right?
So we're not just a residentialsolar company, you know, it's
commercial solar, it's it'scommercial electrical, it's it's
service, it's all these otherpieces.
So, I mean, we're not relying onthat one thing like a lot of
these other companies are, whichis why they're no longer around,
right?
Yeah, we're that bigger, morediversified company that we're
(42:51):
we're not going anywhere, we'regonna be around here for you
because we understand that bigpart of our business going
forward is servicing thosesystems and making sure people
are getting what they paid forover the next 20, 30 years.
We wanna be a big part of that.
SPEAKER_05 (43:03):
Yeah, so I think it's just that I 100% love all
that.
I think it really is for manycustomers, it's a peace of mind.
So you know, absolutely becominga part of the club offers them
that peace of mind.
SPEAKER_04 (43:15):
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_05 (43:16):
I can't wait to hear all the details about the car.
SPEAKER_04 (43:19):
We might give you some couple on our next podcast.
I guarantee you, we're gonnaprobably hit about all that, and
we'll send you a couple serviceclub.
SPEAKER_03 (43:28):
Excellent, yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (43:29):
All right, well, um Amanda, it's a pleasure meeting
you.
Thank you so much for joining uson the podcast.
Um lot of great information.
Love the cowboy hats.
SPEAKER_02 (43:39):
Thank you.
SPEAKER_04 (43:39):
Maybe you should put one on.
Yeah, I'm not gonna do it.
We tried.
See, we tried.
All right, everybody.
Hey, thanks for thanks forwatching once again, and we will
see you soon.
We're gonna we are gonna do thatHarman Service Club podcast.
We got a couple other things inmind, and uh we will keep going
into 2026 with you.
We got a lot more to talk about.
So thanks for joining, and we'llsee you soon.
Thank you.
SPEAKER_00 (44:00):
Thank you.
You've been listening to theHarman Solar Podcast with Ben
and Ralph, bringing clarity tothe intersection of solar power
and smart home ownership.
If you found this episodehelpful, don't forget to like,
comment, and subscribe, and alsoshare the show with others
navigating the solar journey.
For questions and topicsuggestions, call 800 281 3189
(44:23):
or visit harmonsolar.com.
You can also connect with theteam on social media.
See you next episode.
The solar energy market has become increasingly
saturated, leading to widespreadmisinformation and a lack of
transparency.
Welcome to the Harmon SolarPodcast, offering a
straightforward, honestperspective on going solar.
Each episode dives into keytopics to help you better
understand the industry.
Our goal is to educate andempower you to make informed
(00:20):
decisions about solar energy.
While solar may not be the rightfit for everyone, we believe
everyone should take the time toexplore it.
Our mission is to increase yourknowledge, not your builds.
SPEAKER_04 (00:33):
Hi, welcome to another edition of the Harman
Solar Podcast.
I'm Rob Fromano, VP of Sales andMarketing at Harman Solar.
And with me, as always, mypartner, kind of my friend, it's
Ben Walshlager.
Ben?
SPEAKER_01 (00:44):
I'm always kind of your friend.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (00:47):
You're kind of our my friend.
SPEAKER_01 (00:48):
Yeah.
Yeah.
A little bit of a differentlayout here we have today.
You can still see our studio.
Yeah.
It's there.
I'm almost sitting in the chair.
You're floating above it.
It's floating above it.
Yes.
Well, tell us what's different.
Well, it's different because wehave a guest, and the guest is
not in Arizona, so we could notinvite her to the studio.
So we decided to do this via um,you know, streaming or Zoom or
(01:10):
whatever you want to call it.
Restream.
SPEAKER_03 (01:12):
Virtually.
SPEAKER_01 (01:13):
Virtually, that's the word I was looking for.
Thank you.
So welcome to the podcast,Amanda Bibee, who is the CEO of
Amicus OM Cooperative.
SPEAKER_05 (01:21):
Thanks so much for having me.
SPEAKER_01 (01:22):
Yeah.
And you're in Colorado.
SPEAKER_05 (01:24):
I am sunny Colorado.
SPEAKER_01 (01:26):
Sunny, warm Colorado right now.
And that is not sarcasm we heardearlier.
That is a true, true fact.
SPEAKER_05 (01:33):
Yes, it's a weird fall and winter so far.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (01:36):
It's a good solar day today, apparently.
SPEAKER_05 (01:38):
Great solar day, nice and cool and very bright
sun.
Although we can tell that angleof incidence goes down in the
wintertime.
Like it's such a dramatic shift.
And our days are so short, theyend at 4 30 is sunset.
Wow.
Yeah.
Because we're we're pretty closeto the solstice.
So we're nearing the the lowest,darkest of the year.
SPEAKER_01 (02:00):
That's right.
So Ben, first.
Yes, Ralph.
SPEAKER_04 (02:03):
What are we talking about?
SPEAKER_01 (02:04):
Let's let's get to know Amanda a little bit.
Okay.
Amanda, tell us who you are,what you do, how you became the
CEO of Amicus OM Cooperative,and all great things about you.
And end it with a fun fact.
SPEAKER_05 (02:15):
Oh, all right.
So I have been in solar 23 yearsin January.
Uh I got my start in Austin,Texas, working at a nonprofit
organization that was advocatingfor solar and uh renewable
energy friendly policies.
So that was my my start.
And then I worked at a solarcompany in Austin for a little
(02:37):
bit before I moved to Colorado.
And I moved here right after thestate had passed its statewide
renewable energy goals.
And we were in the rulemakingperiod before the utility
started offering solar rebates.
And I joined this little babystartup company called Namaste
Solar.
SPEAKER_03 (02:55):
Ah, okay.
SPEAKER_05 (02:56):
So I was like number five full-time employee on
payroll.
Um, and I was there for over 11years and got to help grow that
company.
And it's Namaste Solar is a verycool company.
It's employee-owned, certified BCorp, really very values forward
kind of company in the way thatthey conduct their business.
(03:17):
Um, so love Namaste Solar and itwas a great informative
experience.
It is, as I mentioned, anemployee-owned cooperative.
And when we started learningabout cooperatives and the
cooperative structures, we gotreally into it.
So not only did we convertNamaste Solar into an
employee-owned cooperative, butwe co-founded Amicus Solar,
(03:40):
which is the purchasingcooperative that Harmon is a
part of.
And then a few years after that,some a subset of the members of
Amicus Solar started the CleanEnergy Credit Union, which is a
financial cooperative.
And then right around the timethat we got the charter for the
Clean Energy Credit Union, wesubmitted a grant application to
(04:04):
the Department of Energy SunshotInitiative to start Amicus OM
Cooperative.
So I moved over to run Amicus OMCooperative full-time in 2017
and have been here now almostnine years.
unknown (04:18):
Wow.
SPEAKER_05 (04:18):
So that's my story.
And my fun fact is that I am awoodworker.
Oh I like to make rusticfurniture uh largely out of
Beetle Kill pine because we havea lot of that here in Colorado,
and it's very beautiful.
SPEAKER_04 (04:33):
So those doors behind you, you made those?
SPEAKER_05 (04:35):
I did not make these doors.
SPEAKER_03 (04:41):
Aren't they great?
SPEAKER_01 (04:42):
We'll edit that out.
Well, that's awesome.
It's good to good to have you onour show.
And hopefully our listeners willlearn everything and anything
about OMs.
So let's start off with what isan OM?
You know, what does the O andthe M stand for?
It's operation and maintenance,you know, um, with solar
systems.
A lot of people think that it'sjust kind of a uh a set it and
(05:03):
forget it.
You know, it's it's on theirhouse, it's on their business,
and it's just gonna do its thingforever.
To an extent, that that part ofthat is true, but every now and
then it does need maintenance.
We do need an inspection and acheckup, make sure things are
tight and things are you knowworking the way that they
should.
And so that's kind of what whatyou do, what we do.
So um, I don't know if you wantto expand on that a little bit
(05:25):
more, go a little bit more indepth with what an OM is.
SPEAKER_05 (05:28):
Yeah, I think that you know, historically in our
industry, we have tended to talkabout solar as set it and forget
it.
But as we've now been maturingas an industry, we know that
that's not entirely true.
And that it is just like anyother uh infrastructural part of
(05:49):
your home or business, they needsome maintenance periodically.
And so I like to say solar is alow maintenance technology, but
it is not a no maintenancetechnology.
And when we talk aboutoperations and maintenance, for
me, that includes everythingfrom once a system has been
(06:09):
turned on all the way to the endof its life cycle.
So, in in that time, you'regonna want to monitor your
system.
So that type of task usuallyfalls to your OM teams.
You're gonna want to dopreventative maintenance,
particularly on larger scale,like commercial and utility
scale systems.
(06:30):
And then you're gonna need tomake repairs from time to time.
And that will cover the the bulkof the lifetime of your system
is monitoring, preventative, andcorrective maintenance.
And then at the end, you maywant to decommission your
system.
And that's where we take itdown, recycle all the parts, and
(06:50):
um hopefully install the nextiteration of your solar system
on the same location.
SPEAKER_01 (06:55):
Yeah, and I think as technology continues to advance,
there's going to be thoseopportunities for more and more
um OMs.
You know, think of theautomotive industry.
You know, back then you just hadan engine and four wheels, and
the car would just, you know,ran.
You didn't really need a wholelot of you know work to it.
But I have a 2023 car, and thereare so many electronics things,
(07:17):
and there's so many differentthings that could go wrong, and
recalls and this and that.
Same thing with solar, you know,back in the old days with solar,
you just had your solar panelsand inverters.
Now you have monitoring and youhave this and you have all these
other different aspects to itthat just tells people, well,
that's just more points offailure.
That's more things that could gowrong.
That means more things that needto be updated and checked on,
(07:39):
things like that.
SPEAKER_05 (07:40):
That's true.
And I also think that we see assystems age, they tend to need
more maintenance.
So those early systems, youknow, optimally they didn't need
a lot when they were firstinstalled.
But over time, you know, whenyou have any piece of equipment
sitting outside, it is going tosuffer wear and tear because we
(08:02):
put our stuff out thereintentionally to collect the
sun, right?
And UV is one of the harshestenvironmental elements there is.
So between the UV, the wind, thefreeze-thaw cycles, you know,
there's just wear and tear.
And that's nobody's fault.
It's not a defect, it's justwhat happens to the best of us,
(08:24):
right?
Our our bodies are no different.
We need periodic maintenanceourselves, don't we?
SPEAKER_04 (08:29):
This is true.
SPEAKER_05 (08:30):
I think that there is, you know, what's interesting
when you think about operationsand maintenance as a part of the
life cycle of a solar PV system,we really cover the longest
stretch of time because modulesare warranted for 25 years.
So theoretically, our OM role isin effect for 25 years until a
(08:53):
system reaches the end of itslife.
And the more systems that getinstalled, the more of them need
maintenance.
And so I do think that as a partof our industry, we've
historically not gotten as muchattention as installation,
because installing new systemsis sexy.
But you know, maintaining theones that are already there may
(09:17):
not have the same sparklefactor, but I think it's every
bit as important, if notarguably more important, in that
we we're the ones that keep thesystems running, right?
We're the integrity departmentof our industry that makes sure
that our systems perform the waywe said they would.
And so I think of our OMtechnicians as really the heroes
(09:40):
of the industry that keepeverything going.
And when we think about theexpectation of what solar can
contribute to the grid, itdoesn't stop once it's
installed, right?
You have to count on it toproduce that electricity
ongoing.
And that is what we do in OM.
SPEAKER_04 (09:57):
Yeah.
And I think it's so much moreimportant now as we are sitting
here, was it 2020, almost 26,right?
So this industry residentiallyreally took off in 08, is when
it really started going.
So we're about we're hittingnumber close to 20 years now
that some of these systems havebeen on roofs.
And there's so many big players,as we've talked about, Ben, in
the in the last two years thathave just disappeared.
Oh, yeah.
(10:18):
Right.
So there's nobody to monitor andservice these systems.
And now these systems are inneed as they're starting to get
older and older.
So it is critical for thingslike what you're doing.
Now, even Harmon, who's justcurrently in the process of
creating the Harman ServiceClub, which has all these
different options for peoplethat are basically orphaned out
there.
You know, there's all theseorphan systems out there that
need help.
(10:38):
And so our next podcastobviously will be on the Harman
Service Club and the things thatwe're offering to help people in
Arizona.
But yeah, I think this is OM isjust a critical conversation to
start having in this industrybecause now we're old enough to
say, hey, we need help on thethese bodies are getting older,
right?
So these systems are gettingolder.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (10:55):
There's time for maintenance.
We get those calls, you know,from residential and commercial
customers all the time.
Hey, my company went out ofbusiness.
I have no idea if my solarsystem is working.
You know, can you guys help usout?
When we're like, well, we haveno idea if it's working either.
So we we need to go out thereand you know do a full OM on
your system to see what it is,what it's supposed to do, how is
it working, and in andeverything.
(11:15):
So yeah, it's it's it's aninteresting part of the industry
right now.
SPEAKER_04 (11:18):
It's the next iteration of solar, right?
It's this part now.
This is the part I was thinkingabout 12 years ago, going we're
gonna get there eventually, buthere now we're there.
SPEAKER_01 (11:25):
Here we are.
Always the first one to say, Itold you so.
Yep, it's my job.
So Amanda, go into whattypically takes place within an
ONM.
No, not necessarily all the tinydetails, but just high-level.
What should a residential orcommercial um customer look for
when they're doing an OM?
SPEAKER_05 (11:46):
Yeah, so within the the scope of operations and
maintenance, right?
We when we think aboutoperations, a lot of times that
includes the desk job part, likemonitoring your system remotely
to see if it's on.
And when I think aboutoperations for residential
customers, that's really thebulk of it, is just making sure
(12:09):
that your system is functioningand producing the electricity we
expect it to be producing.
With larger scale systems,you're gonna more frequently
have an annual preventativemaintenance inspection.
And this is where a technicianwill come out and do a thorough
overview of the site following achecklist, you know, just like
the auto mechanics do ahundred-point checklist on your
(12:32):
car and you take it in for atune-up.
So they go, they take pictures,they document the state of
everything, they may do somebasic testing to make sure that
everything is functioningcorrectly, clean out filters and
the inverters, what have you.
So the preventative maintenancepiece is to stay ahead of any
potential issues that can turninto a safety hazard or a
(12:54):
performance impediment.
And really, safety andperformance are the top two
reasons that people are going toconduct operations and
maintenance inspections.
But the third reason is alsowarranty preservation, because a
lot of our inverters and keycomponents need to be inspected
routinely to forestall anyissues.
(13:15):
And you need documentation ofthat fact if you ever have to
make a warranty claim.
SPEAKER_01 (13:20):
No, yeah, I I agree.
Um it's it's not just kind of avisual inspection because a lot
of people just look, you know,they think that oh, there's go
out there and it's gonna makesure my panels aren't cracked.
Well, there's more to a solarsystem than just the panels.
You know, there's the wiring,there's the inverters, and you
know, everything inside theinverters, all the inner
workings.
So we need to inspect all thatto make sure it's working.
(13:40):
And then the the unique thingabout it is, you know, we have
these monitoring capabilities.
And so all these OMs that I, youknow, am personally kind of
monitoring on our on our end, Ican see the solar production
change after we've been outthere, you know.
So I'll reach out to a clientand say, hey, your system's only
been performing about you know75% is what it should be.
(14:03):
And like, oh well, my bills havebeen okay, but like, well, 75%
is not 100%.
So let's get out there and seewhat we can we can do.
And after we get out there, wefind issues, we fix this or
tighten that.
I go, hey, now your system isbumped up to 95%.
So that's kind of a cool thingto see after this OM, the
results.
SPEAKER_05 (14:22):
And that's often what we put into the bucket of
corrective maintenance, right?
So you do your preventative andmaintenance inspection, you come
up with a punch list of itemsthat need to be repaired, you do
the corrective maintenance work,and then get the system back up
to its optimal performance.
SPEAKER_01 (14:38):
Yeah, yeah.
And you you mentioned thewarranty thing.
That's another thing I think alot of people forget about.
You know, they just think theythink they have a warranty, so
therefore it's just I can againset it and forget it.
And if there's anything wrong,my warranty will, you know, take
care of it.
But yeah, Ralph, I'm sure you'vedealt with a lot of warranties
in your your industries before.
I'm sure a lot of those warrantycompanies will just say, you
(14:59):
know what?
No, we're not gonna honor thisbecause you fail to maintain it.
SPEAKER_04 (15:03):
Well, yeah, warranty's a tricky game, right?
But I was thinking when you weresaying that, you were talking
about how people think they wantto set it and forget it, which
is typically what they're toldby a salesperson, especially on
the residential side, right?
Sure.
And they'll tell them it hasmonitoring, but they don't
really know what that means.
Yeah.
What that means is that it'scapable of monitoring.
It doesn't mean somebody'sactively monitoring it, right?
SPEAKER_05 (15:22):
That's a really important distinction.
SPEAKER_04 (15:23):
Yeah, it's a really one, it's a big one because we
get those phone calls all thetime from people that say, hey,
my something's wrong.
And we find out their system'sbeen down for three months, four
months, right?
And they've lost out on thatopportunity from solar saving
them money.
Yeah.
No one's actively monitoring it.
The nice thing about what we dohere is we've started using
active monitoring now, and weare actively 24-7 monitoring
every system that we can thatjoins this club, this fleet.
(15:47):
Right.
And that's a big deal, is youhave to have some type of active
monitoring.
Otherwise, that's great.
You have a warranty and it'llreplace a part that was broken,
which typically happen, but thatcould be 90 days after the
problem started.
I was just thinking of thefriend that I had that um her
inverter was out for four monthsand she didn't even realize it.
Yeah.
It's like, uh oh.
SPEAKER_05 (16:06):
Average homeowners aren't checking their inverters
every day to see if the greenlights are on, right?
SPEAKER_04 (16:12):
Right, exactly.
Exactly.
SPEAKER_05 (16:14):
That's a really valuable service that our
companies offer is having aperson actually lay eyes on the
dashboard of your monitoringportal to make sure that it's
performing.
SPEAKER_01 (16:25):
Yeah, I've I've said it before on this podcast, and
I'll say it again.
It's it's like the it's like thecheck engine light of your car.
When the check engine light goeson, the dealership doesn't call
you and go, hey, guess what?
I noticed your check enginelight came on.
No, no, no, you call thedealership.
So it's the same thing withsolar.
When there's an alert or somesort of notification that your
solar system is down, youcontact the the solar company
(16:47):
that installed it or whoever'smaintaining it to say, Hey, I
got an alert, come fix this.
But like I was Ralph was saying,now it's you know a two-way
street.
Now we have the ability toactively monitor it, and
sometimes there will be caseswhere we reach out to you first
and say, We noticed it.
Um, something's wrong.
I'm gonna come out and fix it.
SPEAKER_04 (17:05):
So so as part of an OM, um, are there typical annual
like annual inspections thathappen?
SPEAKER_05 (17:11):
Is that you know, we typically see the regular annual
or sometimes even biannualinspections on larger scale
systems.
If a residential system isperforming as expected, you may
not need to go out there and dothat every year.
I think it's probably wise tohave your system inspected every
so many years, because, like wesaid, you know, they're exposed
(17:34):
to the elements, these start tobreak down.
But I don't even know thatthat's become common practice
just yet.
Um, I think that if forresidential systems, we're doing
good to get active monitoringbecause that's line of defense.
The larger scale systems,because the economics are just
bigger, they better absorb thecost of an annual visit and any
(17:57):
corrective work that may resultout of that.
So you do tend to see that as amore common practice on larger
scale systems.
SPEAKER_04 (18:04):
I know Ben on our commercial stuff, especially,
we've been doing a lot of annualinspections and stuff.
And what kind of stuff do we,I'm assuming you're working with
these guys, what are we seeingwhen we go on those inspections?
What do we find out?
SPEAKER_01 (18:14):
What things do we see that go, oh wow, we didn't a
lot of it is um paneldegradation because there's a
lot of older systems.
Sure.
Um, and you typically don'tnotice it on the residential
side, if you know maybe maybeone panel is is down.
It might make a small impact onyour bill, but on the commercial
side, if one panel is down ordegraded, you're not gonna
(18:37):
notice it at all.
It's gonna be like absolutely noimpact.
But you'll see it on largerscales, like wow, half of this
system.
Um, these these panels have justbeen you know beaten up and
they're just degrading.
So therefore, you know, it'sit's gonna make a huge, huge
financial impact on them.
So we need to, you know, uhreplace these panels.
Um, another issue that we see isthe kind of the same thing with
(18:58):
inverters, they're just old.
Yeah.
And um, I'm not gonna name anynames or anything like that, but
there are some that are like,well, that's inverters just not
around anymore.
This manufacturer is just nolonger in business.
So we need to figure out well,what we we need to exchange a
light for like so that they getthis whole system up and
running, right?
So that's typically what we seeon the commercial side.
SPEAKER_04 (19:18):
What I worry about in Phoenix is the microinverters
because they're up on our roofat 130 degrees in the summer,
and they have to sit there andand get through that heat.
And I mean, it's it's kind ofcrazy.
SPEAKER_05 (19:29):
It is crazy to think about that.
You know, the one other thing Iwould add to what you were just
saying, Ben, about what we see.
I think the other piece is wiremanagement.
SPEAKER_03 (19:37):
Oh, yeah.
Sure.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_05 (19:38):
You know, and when you think about utility scale
systems, some incrediblestatistic, like 95% of utility
scale systems are installed ontracking racking systems.
And you introduce movement, andthat creates all kinds of
problems because you've got nowyour your wires are rubbing in
(19:58):
weird places.
And that can cause a lot ofadditional issues.
And wire management seems likethe simplest thing.
And yet it's really not.
SPEAKER_03 (20:06):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_05 (20:07):
And it's highly impactful in terms of the issues
that we see that lead toinsurance claims and like the
high dollar impacts of failuresa lot of times come from wire or
connector related issues.
SPEAKER_04 (20:21):
Yeah.
That makes sense on a movingsystem.
I didn't even think about thetracking systems.
SPEAKER_05 (20:25):
Yeah.
I mean, an astonishingpercentage of the utility scale
systems are tracking.
SPEAKER_04 (20:31):
Did not know that.
SPEAKER_01 (20:32):
Yeah.
Some of the other things thatwe're seeing too, um, which is
kind of interesting, is a lot ofdamage.
Um, you know, trucks backing upinto canopies, or sometimes even
vandalisms, thing, you know,things like that, which you
don't see typically on aresidential home because no
one's gonna back into your roof.
Um, but yeah, those coveredparking, you know, you have the
(20:53):
the garbage trucks or otherlarge box trucks that come in,
you know, ding it, and that theydon't realize that that's a lot
of damage.
So it takes a lot of work.
So yeah, dealing with those aswell.
SPEAKER_05 (21:04):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (21:05):
But um, so that's kind of like the overview of
OM's, but let's talk a littlebit more about amicus, and it's
it's a cooperative.
What does that mean as you guysare cooperative?
SPEAKER_05 (21:15):
Yeah, so I know the answer.
SPEAKER_01 (21:17):
I'm just for our viewers, Ralph.
I can't you just get that look.
Like, you don't know that I doknow.
SPEAKER_05 (21:22):
Why are you here?
What do you do anyway?
SPEAKER_04 (21:25):
I've asked about a lot.
SPEAKER_05 (21:26):
So amicus O and M Cooperative, there there are
lots of different types ofcooperatives out there, and we
kind of describe ourselves as ashared services cooperative.
So a cooperative structure atits core is a a commercial
entity, a for in our case, weare a for-profit business entity
that has shareholders, in ourcase, the member companies that
(21:51):
own Amicus OM Cooperative.
So Harman Solar is a shareholderand owner of Amicus ONM
alongside the other 53 activemember companies.
So each of you own this company.
You are my bosses.
SPEAKER_04 (22:09):
You work for me.
SPEAKER_05 (22:10):
We are here to support you.
So Amicus OM Cooperative acts asa hub for all these member
companies to help perform OMservices more safely,
efficiently, and profitably.
And that's really our core, ourmission officially, is to
elevate the stewards ofsustainable energy systems.
(22:31):
That's you.
And so what we do for our membercompanies is kind of five parts.
We facilitate a lot of knowledgesharing through regular
meetings, in-person gatherings,an intranet, etc., where you can
work with your counterparts atother companies across the
country and compare notes on thechallenges that you face, the
(22:54):
vendor issues, the um, you know,and how to solve all of this so
that we keep our systems up andrunning.
Uh, we also provide a lot oftools and templates so that our
member companies are literallyworking from the same playbook.
And that allows for a greatersense of standardization across
the industry.
If we're all doing this andapproaching this work the same
(23:15):
way, customers get used toseeing a professional product.
Uh, the third big thing that wedo is training.
Amicus ONM Cooperative has beendeveloping a training program
for OM field technicians.
And this is another huge part oftrying to standardize the way
that we do this work and to keepit safe and efficient is for our
(23:36):
technicians to be really welltrained.
And so we got a grant from thefederal government a couple of
years ago to help support thiswork and to create more
standardization.
We actually worked with a wholebunch of stakeholders, drafted a
four-level technician frameworkthat lays out a whole
professional advancement pathwayfor them.
(23:57):
And we shared that with theindustry associations, with the
solar energy industryassociation and with American
Clean Power.
And SIA actually turned it intoa bona fide American national
standard.
So it was published earlier thissummer.
It's called the SIA 301 ANSIstandard.
And it's about how we traintechnicians to go out and do
(24:20):
this work in the field.
So Amicus ONM Cooperative hasbeen heavily engaged in this
type of work.
We're really passionate about itbecause I think that not only
does that benefit our companiesfrom having more profitable
work, but it benefits thetechnicians by giving them a way
to advance, a way to make moremoney, and a way to see
themselves in these roles formany years because OM work is
(24:43):
good work.
If you don't want to sit behinda desk, this is really like
thought-provoking, it's varied,but it's also really meaningful
work because you're helping keepour systems operational for a
lot longer.
Um, so that's what the trainingthing I could go on for a long
time about that.
But the other two bits that wedo is um we uh provide a lot of
(25:06):
business planning support forthe member companies.
And then we also do uh somebusiness development work, but I
really prefer to call itmatchmaking, because I like to
take a client when they call meand say, Hey, I need help in the
Phoenix area, and I say, Well,you're in luck.
I've got a great company there.
Let me make an introduction.
So I matchmake between clientsand members to help them, help
(25:30):
them grow.
SPEAKER_01 (25:31):
Nice.
Yeah, I like the thestandardization aspect of it
because even though you know thecompanies that are in the
cooperative, you know, on paper,we're all competitors really.
We're competitors on the salesand the install side.
But when it comes to like theOM, you know, I think as a a
homeowner or business owner, wethey know that we're not
competing in that aspect becauseuh the procedures that we follow
(25:54):
as far as the OM, it's it'sstandardized no matter who you
go through.
Um, we're all going to befollowing the same process of
doing that on.
unknown (26:02):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_05 (26:04):
Yeah.
And I I just generally thinkthis is part of the
professionalization andmaturation of our industry.
You know, when you look at HVACor automobiles or hot tubs, I
don't know.
There's there's a lot moreprocesses in place.
And, you know, the same is truefor apprenticeship programs or
(26:26):
for other like educational andprofessional development
pathways.
And so it's just time for us toget these ducks in order and
really deliver thatprofessionalism to our clients
and to our our own people,right?
So I'm really excited about thistoo.
I think it's a it's a big stepforward for the industry as a
(26:47):
whole.
And my first loyalty is to you,my member companies.
SPEAKER_04 (26:51):
What I like about the group, and so I've been more
involved on the other side of itwith Amacus, is even having all
these different different EPCs,just like us, different
installers, all get together andtalk about experiences that
things that they're seeing andtools that you're using that
maybe we had a call last weekwhere myself and our director of
operations was on a callproviding um feedback on a tool
(27:13):
that we use that another fourcompanies that are in the group
wanted to use.
And we gave them our honestfeedback about this is what
we've seen.
Stuff like that's reallyvaluable.
And the industry's been suchsilo, it's been so siloed for
years where everybody's justkind of you know, you worry
about yourself.
Well, you know, we don't want togive away the secrets.
Yeah, and this group is is it'ssharing everything, the
knowledge you just talked about.
(27:33):
I think that's that's invaluablebecause we've learned a lot from
it and we've been able to shareour experience of doing this,
you know, for how many yearswe've been doing it, and it it
really helps the whole groupjust be stronger.
I I enjoy being part of it.
SPEAKER_05 (27:43):
Truly, Ralph, I think that is one of the most
special parts of this community.
And you you were referring tothe Amicus Solar, our our sister
cooperative, they do thepurchasings for both of us, you
know, we we are separate legalentities, but we have a great
amount of overlap in ourownership groups.
And I think culturally we bothreally try to foster that
(28:06):
sharing.
And it's one of the most uniquethings I've seen.
There's you don't see this levelof sharing at a trade show or a
regional conference, right?
And there's a big element oftrust in that, that we trust in
each other, we trust in the factthat we care very deeply about
(28:26):
our customers and about thequality of our work.
We're not here to cut corners,we're not here to screw anybody
over, you know, and I think thatsets us apart from unfortunately
some of the actors that havecome into the marketplace in the
last few years.
SPEAKER_03 (28:39):
Yep.
SPEAKER_05 (28:40):
There is also a real um like a quality stamp that
comes with being a part ofeither Amicus Cooperative.
SPEAKER_04 (28:48):
Yep, I agree.
Really good point.
SPEAKER_01 (28:50):
Yeah.
So what what is the future ofAmicus ON OM Cooperative?
Um, we guys, what are you guyslooking to do?
Obviously, you probably want toget more and more members, but
um, is there a a bigger goalthat you're you guys are trying
to accomplish?
SPEAKER_05 (29:03):
You know, membership is not actually the number one
thing that we look at.
I I think that the vision forwhere we want to go is that we
we want to continue growing thecommunity with the right kinds
of companies that will add tothe collective and bring and be
good participants in thatcommunity.
(29:24):
And of course, they have touphold our commitment to quality
workmanship and to the valuesthat we espouse.
But I think beyond that, whatwe've really seen with this
training program is anopportunity to reach to serve
our member companies and alsoserve the industry writ large by
bringing a quality, four-leveltraining program to the
(29:47):
marketplace because there hasn'tbeen one to date.
And when we submitted that grantapplication to the Department of
Energy, that was really a bigpart of our message was this has
been an overlooked aspect of ourindustry.
We don't have a comprehensivetraining program that serves our
technicians.
We need to develop one.
(30:08):
This is a big part of thisprofessionalizing.
And so we are starting to offerour training program beyond the
membership to companies acrossthe industry.
And it's it's a way for us toexpand our reach without it
always necessarily being afunction of membership growth.
SPEAKER_01 (30:28):
I like that.
Yeah.
Ralph, you got anything?
SPEAKER_04 (30:34):
No.
SPEAKER_01 (30:36):
That sounds about right with Ralph.
SPEAKER_04 (30:38):
I'm trying to let no.
No, it's on you.
SPEAKER_01 (30:40):
No, uh obviously we've touched on that, you know,
having an OM is important.
And um, but what what happens tosay to you know, uh a commercial
client, um or even residentialclient, um, if they decide just
to opt out, I don't want to doon it, not important to me.
(31:01):
I don't see the need for it.
Um, I know we touched onwarranties and and everything,
but uh I see it's more of youknow, you're kind of rolling the
dice, it's a risk.
SPEAKER_05 (31:11):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (31:11):
Or people people say that they want to do it
themselves.
Oh, you laugh, but we havethose.
SPEAKER_05 (31:20):
There's that's a contingent of our clientele for
sure.
SPEAKER_04 (31:23):
I can see it on the residential side, people saying
that, but not on the commercialside.
Well, I guess they would.
SPEAKER_01 (31:27):
I mean, I guess I won't name any names, but I know
one person in particular in thecommercial department they want
to do it themselves.
So like I mean, more power toyou.
SPEAKER_04 (31:34):
On the amicus side, how many um I mean, do you have
do you know how many customersthere are on the entire network
that are that are that have sometype of OM with?
I mean, yeah, you your customer,I guess, is the dealer partners,
correct?
SPEAKER_05 (31:46):
Yeah, my customer is a member company, but the I I
mean, I guess the answer to yourquestion, Ben, is not to be
overly cliched, but an ounce ofprevention is worth a pound of
cure.
And there, you know, when Ithink about what that saying
(32:07):
really means, is that by doing alittle bit of preventative
maintenance to stay ahead ofsomething catastrophic, you're
gonna save money on what couldturn into a very costly repair.
And, you know, imagine if you dohave a wire that's been, you
know, it wasn't properly securedat the time of installation.
(32:28):
And every time the wind blows,it rubs against some metal.
Eventually that's gonna wear offthe jacketing of your wire, and
eventually that's gonna cause afault.
Or if that wire, you know,creates a spark, it could lead
to a fire.
The damage that you're gonnahave to repair from a fire is so
(32:48):
much greater than replacing awire or making sure it's tied
down correctly with a cable tie,right?
Like you think about that, thecost of that inspection and that
cable tie is a couple hundreddollars versus a warranty claim
or a you know, an insuranceclaim of thousands of dollars if
there's fire damage.
(33:09):
And and I just, you know, Ithink when you when you
contemplate that theseinspections are a form of
insurance.
We all pay for insurance that wehopefully never have to use.
But knowing that that policy isthere gives you some peace of
mind that in the event ofanything happening, you're
covered, right?
And I think that doing an activepreventative maintenance visit
(33:33):
is further insurance because itmeans that somebody is who it
with trained eyeballs is comingout to prevent those issues from
ever happening in the firstplace.
SPEAKER_04 (33:44):
Yeah, you know, and I would I would say this too.
We we talk about this in ourpodcast sometimes, but I mean,
as if your residential customer,you've got a power station on
top of your house, right?
Yeah, yeah.
And hopefully Harman installedit.
And if they didn't, I'm notsaying that no one else knows
how to do it, but we've seen thehorror stories, right?
You just never know.
Commercial-wise, the same thing.
You're putting a power plant upon your roof, you just never
(34:05):
know, right?
And it it pays.
If you're gonna invest that typeof money into something like
that, why wouldn't you want toprotect it?
If I go out and buy an$80,000car, I mean, I'm gonna buy
whatever it takes to protectthat car while I'm driving it
because I want to make sure itcontinues to work.
Yeah, right.
This is probably 10 times moreimportant than that because of
the ramifications like you justmentioned.
(34:27):
If something was done wrong,number one, you could lose
savings and this and that, butalso you can lose the building
it's on.
Right.
Um, fires happen all the time.
We've seen fires happen.
I mean, it's it's a reality,right?
We're talking electricity, we'retalking a power plant, and as
technology is changing, and itis, we're seeing more and more
battery storage being installedin different places.
Uh, we're seeing more of themicroinverters being installed.
(34:48):
So now you have a panel with aninverter and you have you know
50, 100, 200 microinverters upon your roof.
One little thing goes wrong.
I mean, poof.
Yeah, so we've seen too much ofthat lately.
SPEAKER_05 (34:59):
We don't mean it need to make it sound like every
solar array is about to go upand no, not the point, but yeah,
but I think this is this isexactly why on is important, is
that it's insurance.
And because we encourage you todo regular visits and to avoid
(35:20):
issues, you know, somesalespeople will say to me,
Well, I don't want to talk aboutOM up front because it makes it
sound like we have this productthat's gonna break.
It's true, and I I completelydisagree with that.
As a consumer, I expect thatwhatever I buy has the potential
to break because things break.
(35:42):
And that doesn't mean that theywere fundamentally defective, it
doesn't mean that they weren'twell made in the beginning or
well installed, but wear andtear happens.
And I actually argue thattalking about operations and
maintenance up front should be apeace of mind for your customer.
It is a differentiation from thecompanies that have not invested
(36:04):
in building and training afull-fledged service and OM
department.
And for me as a consumer, I wantto know who do I call when
something breaks?
And that is absolutely a sellingpoint, not a detraction.
SPEAKER_04 (36:22):
This industry is changing.
Um, this industry is going from,and we've talked about this a
lot, an industry of I call themtrunk slammers, right?
Got guys that are out theretrying to make a quick buck and
just selling solar and gettingit done and making their money
and walking away.
They don't care about thelong-term investment of that
customer and how it's gonna workfor them.
They don't want to talk aboutthe things like this because
they just want to make the sale.
(36:42):
Yeah.
So it's a really good point towhen you're talking to somebody,
whether you're a business oryou're a residential, you want
to know what hopefully they'regonna talk about.
Hey, if something happens, thisis what we provide for you as a
company.
We're in this with you for thelong haul.
It's not a it's not just to getit installed.
That's one of the things right.
It's absolutely this is a 20, 30year relationship that we're
(37:04):
creating together, and that'sthe way to look at it.
And so when you're making thisinvestment, you want that
company or that group that'sgonna be there with you right
along the way to make sure thateverything's okay.
It's just like when you go tothe doctor every year to get
your health check, right?
You want to try to catchsomething early so it doesn't
turn into something major downthe road, right?
I'd rather catch it now.
SPEAKER_05 (37:24):
So yeah, and that's also that that commitment to the
long term and to thatpartnership is what sets amicus
companies apart from the Trumpslammers.
SPEAKER_03 (37:35):
Yep.
SPEAKER_05 (37:36):
We don't let those in because that is not the
values and that is not the waywe want to conduct business.
And so I think there's that'spart of that sort of uh the
vetting process for us is to saywe want companies who are
committed.
They're committed to thisindustry, to this technology, to
their customers, theiremployees.
(37:57):
Like it, it's the whole pictureof how a company behaves that
makes them a good candidate foramicus, either either amicus
solar, amicus ONM cooperative.
Because this is a long-termpartnership.
We believe it should be along-term partnership because we
stand behind our work, we standbehind this technology, and we
(38:18):
will make sure it's right.
SPEAKER_01 (38:21):
Yeah, love it, love it, yep.
So, how can we find you withwebsite, social media?
She's right there.
Yeah, um obviously right here infront of us.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_05 (38:29):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (38:30):
Um personally, how can we find you?
SPEAKER_05 (38:32):
Where do you at least my home address?
I am on LinkedIn.
You can certainly find me there.
Um, and then the amicus onwebsite is amicusom.com.
It looks kind of like Amicusalm.
SPEAKER_04 (38:49):
Okay.
Amicusam.
SPEAKER_05 (38:50):
Amicusalm.
Amicusm.
SPEAKER_04 (38:53):
And they can come to you to look for a local member
if in their area if they want togo solar.
I mean, that's one of the thingsyou'd offer them, right?
SPEAKER_05 (39:00):
I mean, yeah.
So we really focus on all thingsOM related.
Um so while many of ourcompanies are also EPCs, uh,
there are a handful of ourcompanies that strictly do OM
work.
So I think if you're looking foran installer in your area,
you're gonna want to go to theAmicus Solar website.
But Amicus OM, if you're in thatbucket of comp homeowners whose
(39:24):
original installers are now outof business, you can come look
at the Amicus ONM website.
And we have a whole page of ourmember companies where with an
interactive map, you can clickon your state and see who's
nearby.
SPEAKER_01 (39:37):
Yeah, because this is not just a Harman Solar
Arizona podcast.
We're national.
We are national.
We have listeners in otherstates.
So if they're out there lookingfor you know an OM company, I
would say check out the AmicusONM website first to find out
who is, you know, in your state.
SPEAKER_03 (39:52):
Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_01 (39:53):
And go start from there.
SPEAKER_04 (39:54):
Right.
But if you're in Arizona, youbetter look at ours.
Only ours.
Come on, man.
Awesome.
SPEAKER_01 (40:01):
Well, thank you for for coming on our show.
We uh we hope you enjoyed it.
I know Ralph did.
SPEAKER_04 (40:09):
I know Ralph did.
Is there any is there are wemissing anything?
Is there anything else youwanted to talk about or anything
I just want to say before we letyou go?
I mean, did we hit oneverything?
Did Ben do a good job or did hemiss something?
SPEAKER_05 (40:19):
Because I think he did a great job.
I mean, I think what's what'sfun to hear from your
perspective, you know, it was Ienjoy hearing what are the top
things that you see and how dowe get ahead of those?
But um just how do you talk tocustomers about this?
I mean, I obviously I'm superbiased and I I have uh a lot of
(40:40):
suggestions for how we shouldtalk about this, but what do you
find customers care about themost when it comes to the
long-term health of theirsystems?
SPEAKER_01 (40:49):
It's more just it's the financial aspect of it.
Um, we have a list of all of ourcommercial installation
installations that we've doneand um what I do kind of each
month, I take a look at you knowwhat they're producing, what
they should be producing.
And if they're underproducing, Ireach out to them and just say,
hey, your system'sunderproducing, you know, you
might need a an O and M.
And they're like, oh, well, whatwhat what would happen if I
(41:11):
spent X dollar X dollars on anOM?
How is that gonna be a return oninvestment on my bill?
So I kind of go over thataspect, like, well, your
system's only producing 25% ofwhat it should, so it's gonna be
a huge impact to you know, us toget out there and fix whatever's
wrong with it.
So a lot of a lot of clients, itis the financial aspect.
Um, not too many of them areworried about, you know, the
(41:32):
dangers and fire and all thatstuff.
They're more worried about likebottom line, the dollar aspect.
SPEAKER_04 (41:38):
So and on the residential side, I think it's
especially now at the impendinglaunch of the Harman Service
Club, it's it's more aboutcreating the partnership and
more talking about, hey, we wantto be in this with you together
for the next 30 years.
So it's really important thatyou're part of this.
You, you know, we become part ofthis club.
We're gonna be watching yourback, we're gonna be watching
your system.
And when they get that firstcall from us when they're not
(42:00):
expecting it to say, hey, we'venoticed something, we're gonna
come out.
That's that's valuable, right?
SPEAKER_01 (42:04):
Yeah, yeah.
I think on the residential side,it's not about money, you know,
the financial aspect or youknow, or fires or whatever.
They're more worried about, areyou guys gonna be around?
SPEAKER_04 (42:13):
We're gonna be there because they're seeing what's
going on the last couple ofyears, you know, and they're
like, Are you guys gonna bethere?
And hey, you've been there for50 years, so yeah, a good bet,
you know, going forward, you'reprobably gonna be there.
SPEAKER_01 (42:22):
Yeah, because a lot of them, their system is fine,
working, everything's great andeverything.
They're just more worried aboutlike if something happens down
the road, I need someone tocall.
SPEAKER_04 (42:30):
And I think for us, our big story is, and we've
talked about this all the time,is how diversified we are in our
business, right?
So we're not just a residentialsolar company, you know, it's
commercial solar, it's it'scommercial electrical, it's it's
service, it's all these otherpieces.
So, I mean, we're not relying onthat one thing like a lot of
these other companies are, whichis why they're no longer around,
right?
Yeah, we're that bigger, morediversified company that we're
(42:51):
we're not going anywhere, we'regonna be around here for you
because we understand that bigpart of our business going
forward is servicing thosesystems and making sure people
are getting what they paid forover the next 20, 30 years.
We wanna be a big part of that.
SPEAKER_05 (43:03):
Yeah, so I think it's just that I 100% love all
that.
I think it really is for manycustomers, it's a peace of mind.
So you know, absolutely becominga part of the club offers them
that peace of mind.
SPEAKER_04 (43:15):
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_05 (43:16):
I can't wait to hear all the details about the car.
SPEAKER_04 (43:19):
We might give you some couple on our next podcast.
I guarantee you, we're gonnaprobably hit about all that, and
we'll send you a couple serviceclub.
SPEAKER_03 (43:28):
Excellent, yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (43:29):
All right, well, um Amanda, it's a pleasure meeting
you.
Thank you so much for joining uson the podcast.
Um lot of great information.
Love the cowboy hats.
SPEAKER_02 (43:39):
Thank you.
SPEAKER_04 (43:39):
Maybe you should put one on.
Yeah, I'm not gonna do it.
We tried.
See, we tried.
All right, everybody.
Hey, thanks for thanks forwatching once again, and we will
see you soon.
We're gonna we are gonna do thatHarman Service Club podcast.
We got a couple other things inmind, and uh we will keep going
into 2026 with you.
We got a lot more to talk about.
So thanks for joining, and we'llsee you soon.
Thank you.
SPEAKER_00 (44:00):
Thank you.
You've been listening to theHarman Solar Podcast with Ben
and Ralph, bringing clarity tothe intersection of solar power
and smart home ownership.
If you found this episodehelpful, don't forget to like,
comment, and subscribe, and alsoshare the show with others
navigating the solar journey.
For questions and topicsuggestions, call 800 281 3189
(44:23):
or visit harmonsolar.com.
You can also connect with theteam on social media.
See you next episode.
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