July 9, 2025 • 23 mins
In this breaking news episode, we dive into the just-signed energy bill that eliminates this significant financial incentive for homeowners after December 31, 2025. We unpack what this means for different types of solar customers. While those considering leases can breathe easy (that tax credit continues through 2027), cash buyers and those planning to finance their systems face a rapidly closing window of opportunity. Beyond consumer impacts, we examine how this transition will reshape the solar industry itself.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
The solar energy market has become increasingly
saturated, leading to widespreadmisinformation and a lack of
transparency.
Welcome to the HarmanSolarpodcast, offering a
straightforward, honestperspective on going solar.
Each episode dives into keytopics to help you better
understand the industry.
Our goal is to educate andempower you to make informed
(00:20):
decisions about solar energy.
While solar may not be theright fit for everyone, we
believe everyone should take thetime to explore it.
Our mission is to increase yourknowledge, not your bills.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
Welcome to another edition of the Harman Solar
Podcast.
I'm Ralph Romano, vp of Salesand Marketing at Harman Solar.
With me is my co-host, benWalschlager.
You guys know him as MrEverything.
Ben, mr Everything, how are youGood?
Speaker 3 (00:45):
Good, I'm seeing way too much of you lately and we're
going to have to stop.
I can tell because you'redressing like me now with a
black shirt and the blue jeans.
Last podcast you were liket-shirt and shorts guy.
Now you're.
Speaker 2 (00:53):
I do.
Speaker 3 (00:54):
I have a black color yeah, black polo shirt blue
jeans and the leg crossed likemine.
Speaker 2 (01:08):
Perfect, welcome to our show.
Okay, so this is going to be alittle different kind of podcast
.
We wanted to to do this quicklyand get this out there because,
uh, we're sitting here rightnow.
Speaker 3 (01:12):
Today is july what is july 8th right?
Speaker 2 (01:16):
and so, uh, the white house's big, beautiful bill
passed, uh, last week and wassigned into law on the fourth.
So we so we thought what's abetter time than to come out
right now and say, hey, here'swhat this means?
There's a lot of informationout there a lot of it's
misinformation always.
So we want to just set itstraight and say this is what
this means and this is how thisimpacts the industry and how it
(01:39):
impacts you if you want to gosolar.
Speaker 3 (01:40):
Yeah, it's not really a podcast, it's more of like a
breaking news.
You want to go solar?
Yeah, it's not really a podcast, it's more of like a breaking
news.
It's an info cast info cast.
Speaker 2 (01:47):
Yeah right, a breaking news info cast right,
yeah, we can't afford soundeffects so let's go back to what
happened.
So the federal government passedthis new energy bill um, it has
a lot of things in it, butwe're going to focus on the
green energy stuff, right.
So we could talk about real,real quick ev.
If you want to talk about evreal quick, what this means and
it has a lot of things in it,but we're going to focus on the
green energy stuff, right.
So we could talk about realquick EV.
If you want to talk about EVreal quick, what this means to
(02:09):
EV, since we know we havecustomers that are EV people.
The $7,500 tax credit for EV isgoing away on September 30th.
I believe that's the last dayof that.
So if you're looking to buy anEV and you want to take
advantage of that $7,500, youmight want to do it soon, before
September, before September30th.
Speaker 3 (02:26):
It's not a step down either, it's a gone.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
Gone and there are some places out there that you
can look and they do used EVs.
All they do is sell EVs and forcars that are under $25,000,
they can actually do a taxcredit for $4,000, which is kind
of cool because you'rebasically buying a car for 21
grand or 20 grand.
It makes it very affordable toget into EVs the first time.
(02:52):
I know that EVautocom is a guythat I really like online.
If you haven't seen his stuff,he's really into the EV side and
he's really fair.
He reminds me so much of HarmonSolar the way he runs his
business, but you can go checkhim.
He does all that stuff.
But as of September 30ththat'll be the cut.
So the EV industry will changeon October 1st.
Speaker 3 (03:08):
That's right.
I don't know how it'll change,but it will change.
It'll be more expensive.
Yeah, it'll be more expensive.
I'm sure you'll probably see.
I don't know if you'll see lessYou'll see more About the same,
I'm sure, again, every comes into play.
It's really a gut check forcompanies of who's going to last
and who isn't going to last,because policies make a change,
(03:28):
companies make a change and theymake a change and they just
keep going back and forth.
Speaker 2 (03:31):
So you know we'll see , we have both been doing this
for many years.
This is my 13th year.
This is your 11th or 12th yearand we have seen this industry
change many times and we haveheard the people come out and go
solar is dead.
It's going to die when thishappens.
And here we are.
It doesn't change.
Solar adopts and this will nowadopt.
(03:51):
So let's look at, on the solarside, what has changed, because
we're going to talk about what'schanged and what's the same,
and then we'll talk about theimpacts of that change and what
it means to you if you'relooking to go solar.
So what's changed?
There's something calledSection 25D in the bill.
It's customer-owned systems.
So if you're going to buy asystem cash, if you're going to
(04:12):
finance a system through afinance company, this applies to
you.
There will no longer be a 30%tax credit federal tax credit
after December 31st 2025.
So the end of this year, that30% tax credit that's been
around now for a while is goingaway at the end of this year,
yep.
Speaker 3 (04:31):
And we have a whole podcast on what the tax credits
are, who calls for them, how toget them and all that stuff.
So watch that episode if wewon't really get into that, but
there's no phase out of this.
Speaker 2 (04:41):
Like in the previous years, we've done phase downs
and stuff like that and thenthey came back.
This is a hard stop.
Technically, projects must befully installed and commissioned
before this date.
Again, gray area you talk toyour tax guy, you figure that
out.
That's how people areperceiving it.
Some people are saying it justhas to be installed.
Some people are saying installthe commission.
(05:03):
Commission means that theutility turned it on.
Some people are going to saywell installed and green tagged
by the jurisdiction.
It's you and your tax guy willfigure that out.
Speaker 3 (05:13):
I say play it safe.
Plan on system fully installed,turned on and ready to go,
already producing what it shouldbe producing by the end of the
year.
Speaker 2 (05:24):
Don't risk it, I'm not going to take my opinion.
Yeah, okay.
Speaker 3 (05:27):
Because you know you're going to get those
salespeople who are like, oh,you just need to sign by
December 31st, Sign the deadlineon New Year's Eve and you'll be
fine.
You don't want to go down thatroad of am I getting the credit,
Am I not getting the credit?
So rather be safe than sorry.
I I would say, if you arelooking to do it, do it now, Do
it before it gets crazy.
Yeah, and we're going to talkabout why in a second.
Speaker 2 (05:46):
So that's the big change in the industry, right?
That's a huge change.
It's time for the industry tostand on its own two feet
without this tax credit.
And that will create a lot ofeffects.
We think and we'll talk aboutthat what's staying the same
technically.
So part of this bill wasSection 48E as well, which
basically covers leases inArizona and PPAs in other states
(06:07):
.
There's like four states thatdo leases, I think Arizona,
Florida I can't remember ifthere are two and then the rest
of the states I think 46 of themdo PPEs or PPAs, which is
basically like a lease Kind ofyou have a system on a roof that
you don't own and you just buythe power.
You're just buying the power ofwhatever it produces every
month.
Right, that's a PPA.
We don't do that in Arizona.
It's actually illegal in thestate.
We have leases in the state,but both of them are considered
(06:30):
on the commercial side.
Commercial leasing because athird-party operator owns that
system, Some big company ownsthat system and they take the
tax credit and all that stuffRight, that's the biggest
takeaway is who's owning.
So the lease PPA scenario onSection 48E it was determined
(06:53):
that that will stay in place, sothrough December 31st of 2027,.
There's some other rules aroundit with safe harboring
equipment and all this stuff wedon't need to get into, but it
just means for right now we knowit'll be available through the
end of 27 to have a lease.
So we will continue to sellresidential leases through
leasing companies, like we dotoday, through at least the end
(07:16):
of 27 and we'll see what happensthen.
So that's good news for theindustry because we didn't lose
the ability to provide leasing,and leasing is.
I have a lease on my house.
I love my lease.
Leasing is a great opportunityas well.
So you're not thinking about atax credit anymore.
So you know, it's you want to gosolar, probably one of the
cheapest ways to go will beleasing.
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (07:34):
And I know we've done podcasts before with purchasing
, leasing, and we hear thosesales companies like oh,
leasing's bad, leasing's bad.
Well, guess what?
They're all going to sayleasing's good, leasing's good,
leasing's good, Like no, youjust depends on you and your
situation and what's going onand your tax credits and
(07:55):
liability and things like that.
So again, it all depends on you.
Speaker 2 (07:59):
So if you're a leasing customer and that's what
you want to do you're in goodshape.
You have nothing to worry aboutfor at least the next couple of
years.
Business as usual, Okay For you.
You're a cash customer.
You're a finance customer?
This is where it gets different, Okay.
So I've talked to some of thefinance companies for those of
you that want to finance, andwith the word that I'm hearing
(08:21):
is that they're obviouslythey're not going out of
business.
I can see probably some of themstarting off releases that
don't.
I think that's going to happen.
Sure, We'll see down the road,but I am hearing that a lot of
them will stop offering aproduct that has the 30% tax
credit re-amortization functionof it.
That's probably going to goaway sooner than later.
That won't go away on the 31stof December.
(08:43):
I can see that going away inthe next 60 days.
That's my opinion.
From what I'm hearing, whichwould make sense by the end of
August-ish is when they'llprobably start pulling that
product because they've got tobe concerned that make sure that
the system gets installed bythe end of the year and
commissioned or whatever,depending on your opinion.
And what they don't want tohappen is they sell a system in
(09:05):
October, november, it doesn'tget installed and done and now
you walk away and they're leftholding the bag right.
They're not going to put thatkind of risk on them.
So we'll see those solar loans,as we call them, probably start
to disappear, I think aroundSeptember 1.
That's my guess.
Speaker 3 (09:22):
Which would make sense.
Speaker 2 (09:23):
That's not law, that's not solid.
You heard it here, folks, ralphRomano told you.
I'm giving you my guess.
It's just my guess from whatI've heard.
So you, I'm giving you my guess.
It's just my guess.
Yeah, from what I've heard.
So that is interesting.
Um, also, you have to assumethat there's going to be a
national rush for people thatwant to buy your finance to make
this happen.
(09:43):
Yeah, it's gonna be the goldrush.
We've already seen a tiny tickin a matter of two days, small
tick, but I expect that tick toget bigger.
With that said, there is now aline that you must stand in.
Yep, the utilities foreverything that happens.
Right, because once you gosolar and we get going, there's
an entire process that typicallytakes about 60 days.
Sometimes longer than that 75,90 days, typically, depending on
(10:09):
what jurisdiction you're in,what your system is involved
with, if we have to get an inputfrom a utility, there's all
these factors that can delay asystem.
So now you're in this line andthe line is going to grow every
day.
Speaker 3 (10:20):
Yeah, and that's a key takeaway.
You get all these other solarcompanies who say like, oh, we
do fast installs, we do that.
Well, yeah, so do we.
We can go install it tomorrowif we wanted to.
But we have a lot of red tapethat we have to go through, a
lot of jurisdictions.
There's a process that you haveto go through, right, so you're
just getting in line with thatprocess with all those outside
sources now, and that line, likeRalph said, is just going to
(10:41):
get longer and longer and longerbecause there's more and more
people.
We saw the same thing a fewyears ago when APS was doing
away with net metering.
Speaker 2 (10:49):
Yes, there was just a huge long line.
It took forever for systems toget commissioned because that
scare it was going away.
So that line got longer.
Here's a different thing that'shappening because of all this
into what you just said.
So, yeah, we've been throughthis a couple of times right.
In Arizona in APS, just in areasright, like when APS net
(11:09):
metering went away and thingslike that.
It was crazy.
Remember it was nuts, we weretaking orders, like when APS net
metering went away and thingslike that.
It was crazy.
Remember it was nuts, we weretaking orders.
This is national, yes.
So here's where my fear comesin for you as the consumer.
Supply Equipment.
This is not just Arizona, onesection going through this, this
is the country going throughthis, which means that a lot of
people have the same idea you do.
(11:29):
They want to go solar andthey're all going to move.
Yep Equipment is going to.
I think number one is going togo up in price because when
there's demand yep Supply anddemand right Supply and demand
theory.
I think it could go up.
We'll see Right as of right now.
That hasn't happened yet, butI'm hearing little rumors.
Speaker 3 (11:55):
So thement can get more expensive.
Speaker 2 (11:56):
Number one.
Number two the equipment canall of a sudden not be there,
it's not available because it'sall sold.
My point is the longer you waitand we don't ever do this, we
don't ever talk about you've gotto make a decision now, that's
not who we are Right, but thesituation dictates that you need
to make a decision kind ofquick, yeah, because if you
don't, you put yourself in aposition to purchase something
(12:16):
that you well, you think youpurchased.
Something that's not going toget installed in time and you're
going to lose the credit.
Speaker 3 (12:20):
Yeah, I didn't even think about equipment.
We saw kind of a scare withequipment not too long ago
During COVID the 400-amp servicepanels People had to wait a
year, year and a half to getthem just because supply.
Speaker 2 (12:31):
People had to wait a year, year and a half to get
them just because supply we had.
Covid supply issues.
I think everybody did in a lotof industries right.
Everyone did.
But I think we're going to seethat potentially happen in this
industry right now, in the nextfew months.
Speaker 3 (12:41):
Sure, everyone's going to want panels, everyone's
going to want inverters.
Speaker 2 (12:43):
Right.
So this is not pressure sales.
This is just factual sales.
If you want to do this, youneed to do it now.
You need to make a decisionhere in the next 30 days.
The longer you wait, the morejeopardy you put yourself into
getting this actually done.
That's all I'm trying to say,and I will say this.
We have a podcast coming out.
We're bumping this ahead of it.
We have a podcast coming outabout deceptive sales tactics
(13:04):
that I think you're going to.
It's phenomenal.
I love it.
Um, it just got finished.
Um, you're going to see, oncewe hit the last quarter of this
year, you're going to have somesales companies and you're going
to have some installers thatare going to sit there and say
we'll get it installed in time.
Yeah, and they're going to takeyour deposit and they're going
to and they're going to try topush you.
I'm telling you right now bereal careful, because it's not
(13:27):
going to be a quick process aswe get into Q4, because
everyone's going to be backed up.
Remember, that line is going toget bigger and bigger.
This is like going toDisneyland trying to get on the
Matterhorn it's a three hourwait right now.
It's going to be a four hourwait next week, a five hour wait
the week after that, and go andgo and go.
So there's going to becompanies out there trying to
tell you it's okay, we can dothis.
And I'm telling you right nowwe can Be weary of that.
(13:48):
No, you can't.
And we're going to talk moreabout that as the time passes,
because we're going to try toprotect you guys, right, but
that's a critical point.
I already know it.
I see it coming.
Yeah, guaranteed, all right.
So what's the bottom line here?
The bottom line is you betterdo something now if you want to
do this and you're going to paycash or you're going to finance,
(14:08):
and that 30% tax credit isimportant.
Speaker 3 (14:11):
I think the main takeaway, too, is it's time to
make a decision.
You do get those people who arekind of like I'm on the fence,
I don't know if I want to dothis.
I would say make that decision,whether you do it or don't.
If you're going to say no,don't do it well then don't do
it.
But if you're on the fence,don't be on the fence anymore,
right?
Because that's going to hurtyou.
Make your decision.
Speaker 2 (14:29):
If you're a cash customer or if you want somebody
that wants to finance, then Ithink, yes, this is what we're
talking about.
Right, you had a conversationwith a customer today that said
I've been waiting.
Now it happened.
I think I'm good bit longerlike oh if you're watching this
podcast, I don't know who youare.
September 1st, in my opinion,is too late that's my opinion I
(14:51):
don't you're gonna.
Speaker 3 (14:52):
Really.
I have no idea how long thatline's gonna be then, but yeah,
you're gonna be cutting itreally close.
Speaker 2 (14:56):
Yeah, that's all I'm gonna say.
Speaker 3 (14:58):
So be be wary of that um but as far as, like your
savings go.
So people are.
You know this big scare tacticit's gonna hurt the industry and
solar is going to go away,there's no more savings I tell.
I'm telling people that, yes,you know that that tax credit,
with it going away, does kind ofhurt your return on investment
or your savings, but it's stillthere.
Speaker 2 (15:18):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 3 (15:18):
You know we have a finance company where they show
you the loan payment kind ofreversed.
You know a lot of loancompanies will show you the
lowest payment and then when itre-amortizes it'll stay that way
.
But we have a finance partnerwhere it shows you the
worst-case scenario first, thisis your highest payment and even
then on those proposals, it'ssaving money.
It's not as great as if,obviously, the payment was lower
(15:39):
, but it's still saving money.
And then you also have to thinkabout, well, utility rates are
still going to increase.
Aps is trying to get a 14%increase as we speak.
Yeah, so you know, you gettinglocked in with your, with your
monthly payment, for, you know,25 years, if you're financing it
or you're, you know, doing yourlease is still good, because
utility rates are still going toincrease um over time.
(15:59):
Yes, so the savings is there,it's just not going to be as
great.
I always tell people I'm in theI told you so industry.
Yeah, you know, if you getsolar 10 years ago, those people
are sitting pretty and thenlike, oh, I want to wait a year.
Okay, well, come back and I'llsay I told you, so things have
changed.
Yeah, next year I'll tellpeople I told you, so things
have changed again.
Speaker 2 (16:15):
Yeah, so, and here's some things that are going to
change, so financing will change.
Um, I think financing you'llsee obviously is non-solar
financing.
I think you'll see differentlenders that aren't in solar
right now get into the business.
I've already heard about a fewlenders that are wanting to come
into this industry.
That never came in because theydidn't like the whole
re-amortization and the solarside the ITC side of it.
(16:37):
They're looking at traditionalloans right.
So you're going to see moretraditional loans.
You're going to see, right nowyou have these low interest,
high fee loans.
I think that's going to change.
I think the industry has toadjust right.
The industry lost a 30% taxcredit and I think what you'll
see when all the dust settles islower fees on loans.
(16:59):
You might then start seeingequipment pricing come down a
little bit.
There'll be gains in otherplaces.
Sure, I think one of thebiggest things that you'll see
will be dealers.
So we've talked about this inthe past with these sales and
marketing dealers that are outthere.
They just sell solar and theyhook up with somebody like us to
install it, and they have to dothat for a price.
(17:19):
Obviously, getting leads is aprice.
Knocking doors is a price.
Commission, they have to makecommission right.
And so I think what's happenedwith this outside of a lease is
their commission ability hasgone from here, will go down to
here, Right.
So I think a lot of thosepeople that are used to saying
hey, we talked about it in ournext episode about deceptive
tactics, Solar is this cash graband they can make a ton of
(17:41):
money in it.
Speaker 3 (17:41):
I made 20 grand this week.
Speaker 2 (17:43):
Guys that are making 60 grand a month.
Yeah, it kind of goes away,right it does.
So this kind of helps theindustry a little bit.
It kind of gets rid of some ofthese deceptive people that were
out there giving us all a badname.
So I'm not upset that thishappened, that's true.
I think it actually helps acompany like ours because it's
going to get some of thosepeople out of the industry.
(18:03):
Yeah, so it's not a bad thing,it's really not, and we're going
to be focused on finding thosesweet spots to offer you solar
as well, if you're going to cashor finance.
So we'll always have a goodoffer to you.
Always we have a good offer.
Today, we'll have a great offerto you after this is all said
and done, what you'll need to becareful is leasing right.
Leasing is a great tool.
I love leasing, but a lot ofthese dealers that will try to
(18:26):
survive, I mean, they're goingto go out there and all they're
going to have is leases and youknow, just watch escalators and
other things.
We'll probably have a leasepodcast where we'll break down
at least how it really works.
I know we've kind of done that,but I think we'll focus more on
that after that dust settlesfor this.
Speaker 3 (18:39):
Yeah, because as the industry will change, we're
going to be more about it and Ithink what is also going to
happen is you're going to havethose, um, those smaller
companies who aren't welldiversified.
Unfortunately, they might gounder, just because I think they
will.
That this is what they reliedon.
They only relied on residentialsolar sales, and right that you
know obviously the strong willsurvive, only the strong will
survive.
(18:59):
So then you have all thosecustomers who have solar on
their home and they go.
Where do they go?
Right, you know, we'll still behere.
We're very diversified.
We have a service department,so I think you see a lot of
those smaller companies goingaway and now you need homeowners
who have solar, who need a newhome to service their system.
Speaker 2 (19:17):
So again, we are not dependent on residential solar.
That's not our whole business.
A lot of companies that's theirwhole business.
That's why Harman's been aroundfor 50 years, Right?
So that's a big deal.
And still, residential solar isgoing to be a good piece of
business for us.
It's not going to change.
We're not upset that thishappened.
It's funny.
Speaker 3 (19:34):
You know you have people that are flipping out
about it.
Speaker 2 (19:35):
We're like I think it's a good thing.
Speaker 3 (19:37):
It's got its pros and cons to it.
Speaker 2 (19:40):
We'll be all right, though it's got its pros and and
.
If you're outside of Arizona, Imean.
So there's other states againwhere they have other incentives
.
They still have the SRECs, theystill have township incentives,
they have utility incentives.
So you need to look at thedifferent areas where you live
and see what's still going to bein play.
Yeah, you may have lost the ITC, but you still have other stuff
(20:01):
that makes it really doable.
So solar's not going anywhere.
Solar's still really viable.
I know there's programs inTexas alone that are fantastic
for solar and will be even afterthis all passes.
So no, there's some really goodprograms out there.
Speaker 3 (20:15):
Yeah, and, like I said earlier, it's going to be
kind of a gold rush.
But I think that's an importantquestion to ask your solar
company.
If you're going to quote Againwe've mentioned it many times we
don't really care if you gowith us or not.
We're going to be here, we'regoing to be just fine.
We would prefer that you gowith a legitimate company.
But if you are at the table andyou're talking to your sales
rep, ask them how long they'vebeen in business.
Yeah, because in the nextcouple of months it's going to
change dramatically.
(20:36):
Be more aware of that now thanever before.
Right, if they said, oh, hasn'tbeen around that long?
Speaker 2 (20:52):
it's like when we post our, we have two podcasts
right now sitting in queue toget out to you guys we're gonna
be coming out soon but when wepost one of them, where we talk
to neil our buddy neil and youguys will see what that's about.
He talked about that.
Yeah, you got to look and seehow long have these people been
around?
Yeah, have they been around as?
Long as the warranties arepromising.
Speaker 3 (21:07):
Yeah, If they haven't you better think twice.
Right, right, we have.
So, yeah, with the tax creditsgoing away, you know there's a
company might go under.
You have that 20, 25 year laborwarranty with that company.
Yep, and they have only beenaround for a couple of years.
Speaker 2 (21:23):
Yep and so, hey, that's really what we wanted to
talk about today.
There's not a lot more to talkabout for this episode.
Or it's important to you, thenyou would need to make a
decision quickly.
If it doesn't matter to you andthat doesn't do anything for
(21:51):
you, then you don't have toworry about it.
You can just keep going thepath you were going down,
because, again, leasing will beavailable, solar will be
available.
It's still a purchase if youneed it, so don't worry about
that.
If you want to discuss more,reach out to us on Comment below
, email us, call us, we're here,we'll talk about it, just like
we had one of our listeners, oneof our viewers, who called both
of us yesterday I think it wasyeah who wants to go solar, and
(22:14):
he trusts us and he watches ourpodcast and he knows that we're
going to give it to you guysstraight.
So we really appreciate that.
That's a big deal to us to hearin you.
To go solar that's, that's cool.
Speaker 1 (22:28):
We're here for that and we'll do it for you If you
go with somebody else.
Speaker 2 (22:30):
Like Ben said, we're here for you as well, to kind of
walk you through that if youhave questions.
So that's it for this episode.
I know this is a short one, butwe just wanted to get this out
there very quickly.
Thanks as always.
Thanks always for joining us.
We will come back soon with thenext episode, the next real big
episode we're seeing.
We've got a couple of thingsthat we're working on right now,
so we'll see you again soon.
That's it.
(22:51):
Talk to you soon.
Bye.
Speaker 1 (22:53):
You've been listening to the Harmon Solar Podcast,
with Ben and Ralph bringingclarity to the intersection of
solar power and smart homeownership.
If you found this episodehelpful, don't forget to like,
comment and subscribe, and alsoshare the show with others
navigating the solar journey.
For questions and topicsuggestions, call 800-281-3189
(23:15):
or visit harmandsolarcom.
You can also connect with theteam on social media.
See you next episode.
The solar energy market has become increasingly
saturated, leading to widespreadmisinformation and a lack of
transparency.
Welcome to the HarmanSolarpodcast, offering a
straightforward, honestperspective on going solar.
Each episode dives into keytopics to help you better
understand the industry.
Our goal is to educate andempower you to make informed
(00:20):
decisions about solar energy.
While solar may not be theright fit for everyone, we
believe everyone should take thetime to explore it.
Our mission is to increase yourknowledge, not your bills.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
Welcome to another edition of the Harman Solar
Podcast.
I'm Ralph Romano, vp of Salesand Marketing at Harman Solar.
With me is my co-host, benWalschlager.
You guys know him as MrEverything.
Ben, mr Everything, how are youGood?
Speaker 3 (00:45):
Good, I'm seeing way too much of you lately and we're
going to have to stop.
I can tell because you'redressing like me now with a
black shirt and the blue jeans.
Last podcast you were liket-shirt and shorts guy.
Now you're.
Speaker 2 (00:53):
I do.
Speaker 3 (00:54):
I have a black color yeah, black polo shirt blue
jeans and the leg crossed likemine.
Speaker 2 (01:08):
Perfect, welcome to our show.
Okay, so this is going to be alittle different kind of podcast
.
We wanted to to do this quicklyand get this out there because,
uh, we're sitting here rightnow.
Speaker 3 (01:12):
Today is july what is july 8th right?
Speaker 2 (01:16):
and so, uh, the white house's big, beautiful bill
passed, uh, last week and wassigned into law on the fourth.
So we so we thought what's abetter time than to come out
right now and say, hey, here'swhat this means?
There's a lot of informationout there a lot of it's
misinformation always.
So we want to just set itstraight and say this is what
this means and this is how thisimpacts the industry and how it
(01:39):
impacts you if you want to gosolar.
Speaker 3 (01:40):
Yeah, it's not really a podcast, it's more of like a
breaking news.
You want to go solar?
Yeah, it's not really a podcast, it's more of like a breaking
news.
It's an info cast info cast.
Speaker 2 (01:47):
Yeah right, a breaking news info cast right,
yeah, we can't afford soundeffects so let's go back to what
happened.
So the federal government passedthis new energy bill um, it has
a lot of things in it, butwe're going to focus on the
green energy stuff, right.
So we could talk about real,real quick ev.
If you want to talk about evreal quick, what this means and
it has a lot of things in it,but we're going to focus on the
green energy stuff, right.
So we could talk about realquick EV.
If you want to talk about EVreal quick, what this means to
(02:09):
EV, since we know we havecustomers that are EV people.
The $7,500 tax credit for EV isgoing away on September 30th.
I believe that's the last dayof that.
So if you're looking to buy anEV and you want to take
advantage of that $7,500, youmight want to do it soon, before
September, before September30th.
Speaker 3 (02:26):
It's not a step down either, it's a gone.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
Gone and there are some places out there that you
can look and they do used EVs.
All they do is sell EVs and forcars that are under $25,000,
they can actually do a taxcredit for $4,000, which is kind
of cool because you'rebasically buying a car for 21
grand or 20 grand.
It makes it very affordable toget into EVs the first time.
(02:52):
I know that EVautocom is a guythat I really like online.
If you haven't seen his stuff,he's really into the EV side and
he's really fair.
He reminds me so much of HarmonSolar the way he runs his
business, but you can go checkhim.
He does all that stuff.
But as of September 30ththat'll be the cut.
So the EV industry will changeon October 1st.
Speaker 3 (03:08):
That's right.
I don't know how it'll change,but it will change.
It'll be more expensive.
Yeah, it'll be more expensive.
I'm sure you'll probably see.
I don't know if you'll see lessYou'll see more About the same,
I'm sure, again, every comes into play.
It's really a gut check forcompanies of who's going to last
and who isn't going to last,because policies make a change,
(03:28):
companies make a change and theymake a change and they just
keep going back and forth.
Speaker 2 (03:31):
So you know we'll see , we have both been doing this
for many years.
This is my 13th year.
This is your 11th or 12th yearand we have seen this industry
change many times and we haveheard the people come out and go
solar is dead.
It's going to die when thishappens.
And here we are.
It doesn't change.
Solar adopts and this will nowadopt.
(03:51):
So let's look at, on the solarside, what has changed, because
we're going to talk about what'schanged and what's the same,
and then we'll talk about theimpacts of that change and what
it means to you if you'relooking to go solar.
So what's changed?
There's something calledSection 25D in the bill.
It's customer-owned systems.
So if you're going to buy asystem cash, if you're going to
(04:12):
finance a system through afinance company, this applies to
you.
There will no longer be a 30%tax credit federal tax credit
after December 31st 2025.
So the end of this year, that30% tax credit that's been
around now for a while is goingaway at the end of this year,
yep.
Speaker 3 (04:31):
And we have a whole podcast on what the tax credits
are, who calls for them, how toget them and all that stuff.
So watch that episode if wewon't really get into that, but
there's no phase out of this.
Speaker 2 (04:41):
Like in the previous years, we've done phase downs
and stuff like that and thenthey came back.
This is a hard stop.
Technically, projects must befully installed and commissioned
before this date.
Again, gray area you talk toyour tax guy, you figure that
out.
That's how people areperceiving it.
Some people are saying it justhas to be installed.
Some people are saying installthe commission.
(05:03):
Commission means that theutility turned it on.
Some people are going to saywell installed and green tagged
by the jurisdiction.
It's you and your tax guy willfigure that out.
Speaker 3 (05:13):
I say play it safe.
Plan on system fully installed,turned on and ready to go,
already producing what it shouldbe producing by the end of the
year.
Speaker 2 (05:24):
Don't risk it, I'm not going to take my opinion.
Yeah, okay.
Speaker 3 (05:27):
Because you know you're going to get those
salespeople who are like, oh,you just need to sign by
December 31st, Sign the deadlineon New Year's Eve and you'll be
fine.
You don't want to go down thatroad of am I getting the credit,
Am I not getting the credit?
So rather be safe than sorry.
I I would say, if you arelooking to do it, do it now, Do
it before it gets crazy.
Yeah, and we're going to talkabout why in a second.
Speaker 2 (05:46):
So that's the big change in the industry, right?
That's a huge change.
It's time for the industry tostand on its own two feet
without this tax credit.
And that will create a lot ofeffects.
We think and we'll talk aboutthat what's staying the same
technically.
So part of this bill wasSection 48E as well, which
basically covers leases inArizona and PPAs in other states
(06:07):
.
There's like four states thatdo leases, I think Arizona,
Florida I can't remember ifthere are two and then the rest
of the states I think 46 of themdo PPEs or PPAs, which is
basically like a lease Kind ofyou have a system on a roof that
you don't own and you just buythe power.
You're just buying the power ofwhatever it produces every
month.
Right, that's a PPA.
We don't do that in Arizona.
It's actually illegal in thestate.
We have leases in the state,but both of them are considered
(06:30):
on the commercial side.
Commercial leasing because athird-party operator owns that
system, Some big company ownsthat system and they take the
tax credit and all that stuffRight, that's the biggest
takeaway is who's owning.
So the lease PPA scenario onSection 48E it was determined
(06:53):
that that will stay in place, sothrough December 31st of 2027,.
There's some other rules aroundit with safe harboring
equipment and all this stuff wedon't need to get into, but it
just means for right now we knowit'll be available through the
end of 27 to have a lease.
So we will continue to sellresidential leases through
leasing companies, like we dotoday, through at least the end
(07:16):
of 27 and we'll see what happensthen.
So that's good news for theindustry because we didn't lose
the ability to provide leasing,and leasing is.
I have a lease on my house.
I love my lease.
Leasing is a great opportunityas well.
So you're not thinking about atax credit anymore.
So you know, it's you want to gosolar, probably one of the
cheapest ways to go will beleasing.
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (07:34):
And I know we've done podcasts before with purchasing
, leasing, and we hear thosesales companies like oh,
leasing's bad, leasing's bad.
Well, guess what?
They're all going to sayleasing's good, leasing's good,
leasing's good, Like no, youjust depends on you and your
situation and what's going onand your tax credits and
(07:55):
liability and things like that.
So again, it all depends on you.
Speaker 2 (07:59):
So if you're a leasing customer and that's what
you want to do you're in goodshape.
You have nothing to worry aboutfor at least the next couple of
years.
Business as usual, Okay For you.
You're a cash customer.
You're a finance customer?
This is where it gets different, Okay.
So I've talked to some of thefinance companies for those of
you that want to finance, andwith the word that I'm hearing
(08:21):
is that they're obviouslythey're not going out of
business.
I can see probably some of themstarting off releases that
don't.
I think that's going to happen.
Sure, We'll see down the road,but I am hearing that a lot of
them will stop offering aproduct that has the 30% tax
credit re-amortization functionof it.
That's probably going to goaway sooner than later.
That won't go away on the 31stof December.
(08:43):
I can see that going away inthe next 60 days.
That's my opinion.
From what I'm hearing, whichwould make sense by the end of
August-ish is when they'llprobably start pulling that
product because they've got tobe concerned that make sure that
the system gets installed bythe end of the year and
commissioned or whatever,depending on your opinion.
And what they don't want tohappen is they sell a system in
(09:05):
October, november, it doesn'tget installed and done and now
you walk away and they're leftholding the bag right.
They're not going to put thatkind of risk on them.
So we'll see those solar loans,as we call them, probably start
to disappear, I think aroundSeptember 1.
That's my guess.
Speaker 3 (09:22):
Which would make sense.
Speaker 2 (09:23):
That's not law, that's not solid.
You heard it here, folks, ralphRomano told you.
I'm giving you my guess.
It's just my guess from whatI've heard.
So you, I'm giving you my guess.
It's just my guess.
Yeah, from what I've heard.
So that is interesting.
Um, also, you have to assumethat there's going to be a
national rush for people thatwant to buy your finance to make
this happen.
(09:43):
Yeah, it's gonna be the goldrush.
We've already seen a tiny tickin a matter of two days, small
tick, but I expect that tick toget bigger.
With that said, there is now aline that you must stand in.
Yep, the utilities foreverything that happens.
Right, because once you gosolar and we get going, there's
an entire process that typicallytakes about 60 days.
Sometimes longer than that 75,90 days, typically, depending on
(10:09):
what jurisdiction you're in,what your system is involved
with, if we have to get an inputfrom a utility, there's all
these factors that can delay asystem.
So now you're in this line andthe line is going to grow every
day.
Speaker 3 (10:20):
Yeah, and that's a key takeaway.
You get all these other solarcompanies who say like, oh, we
do fast installs, we do that.
Well, yeah, so do we.
We can go install it tomorrowif we wanted to.
But we have a lot of red tapethat we have to go through, a
lot of jurisdictions.
There's a process that you haveto go through, right, so you're
just getting in line with thatprocess with all those outside
sources now, and that line, likeRalph said, is just going to
(10:41):
get longer and longer and longerbecause there's more and more
people.
We saw the same thing a fewyears ago when APS was doing
away with net metering.
Speaker 2 (10:49):
Yes, there was just a huge long line.
It took forever for systems toget commissioned because that
scare it was going away.
So that line got longer.
Here's a different thing that'shappening because of all this
into what you just said.
So, yeah, we've been throughthis a couple of times right.
In Arizona in APS, just in areasright, like when APS net
(11:09):
metering went away and thingslike that.
It was crazy.
Remember it was nuts, we weretaking orders, like when APS net
metering went away and thingslike that.
It was crazy.
Remember it was nuts, we weretaking orders.
This is national, yes.
So here's where my fear comesin for you as the consumer.
Supply Equipment.
This is not just Arizona, onesection going through this, this
is the country going throughthis, which means that a lot of
people have the same idea you do.
(11:29):
They want to go solar andthey're all going to move.
Yep Equipment is going to.
I think number one is going togo up in price because when
there's demand yep Supply anddemand right Supply and demand
theory.
I think it could go up.
We'll see Right as of right now.
That hasn't happened yet, butI'm hearing little rumors.
Speaker 3 (11:55):
So thement can get more expensive.
Speaker 2 (11:56):
Number one.
Number two the equipment canall of a sudden not be there,
it's not available because it'sall sold.
My point is the longer you waitand we don't ever do this, we
don't ever talk about you've gotto make a decision now, that's
not who we are Right, but thesituation dictates that you need
to make a decision kind ofquick, yeah, because if you
don't, you put yourself in aposition to purchase something
(12:16):
that you well, you think youpurchased.
Something that's not going toget installed in time and you're
going to lose the credit.
Speaker 3 (12:20):
Yeah, I didn't even think about equipment.
We saw kind of a scare withequipment not too long ago
During COVID the 400-amp servicepanels People had to wait a
year, year and a half to getthem just because supply.
Speaker 2 (12:31):
People had to wait a year, year and a half to get
them just because supply we had.
Covid supply issues.
I think everybody did in a lotof industries right.
Everyone did.
But I think we're going to seethat potentially happen in this
industry right now, in the nextfew months.
Speaker 3 (12:41):
Sure, everyone's going to want panels, everyone's
going to want inverters.
Speaker 2 (12:43):
Right.
So this is not pressure sales.
This is just factual sales.
If you want to do this, youneed to do it now.
You need to make a decisionhere in the next 30 days.
The longer you wait, the morejeopardy you put yourself into
getting this actually done.
That's all I'm trying to say,and I will say this.
We have a podcast coming out.
We're bumping this ahead of it.
We have a podcast coming outabout deceptive sales tactics
(13:04):
that I think you're going to.
It's phenomenal.
I love it.
Um, it just got finished.
Um, you're going to see, oncewe hit the last quarter of this
year, you're going to have somesales companies and you're going
to have some installers thatare going to sit there and say
we'll get it installed in time.
Yeah, and they're going to takeyour deposit and they're going
to and they're going to try topush you.
I'm telling you right now bereal careful, because it's not
(13:27):
going to be a quick process aswe get into Q4, because
everyone's going to be backed up.
Remember, that line is going toget bigger and bigger.
This is like going toDisneyland trying to get on the
Matterhorn it's a three hourwait right now.
It's going to be a four hourwait next week, a five hour wait
the week after that, and go andgo and go.
So there's going to becompanies out there trying to
tell you it's okay, we can dothis.
And I'm telling you right nowwe can Be weary of that.
(13:48):
No, you can't.
And we're going to talk moreabout that as the time passes,
because we're going to try toprotect you guys, right, but
that's a critical point.
I already know it.
I see it coming.
Yeah, guaranteed, all right.
So what's the bottom line here?
The bottom line is you betterdo something now if you want to
do this and you're going to paycash or you're going to finance,
(14:08):
and that 30% tax credit isimportant.
Speaker 3 (14:11):
I think the main takeaway, too, is it's time to
make a decision.
You do get those people who arekind of like I'm on the fence,
I don't know if I want to dothis.
I would say make that decision,whether you do it or don't.
If you're going to say no,don't do it well then don't do
it.
But if you're on the fence,don't be on the fence anymore,
right?
Because that's going to hurtyou.
Make your decision.
Speaker 2 (14:29):
If you're a cash customer or if you want somebody
that wants to finance, then Ithink, yes, this is what we're
talking about.
Right, you had a conversationwith a customer today that said
I've been waiting.
Now it happened.
I think I'm good bit longerlike oh if you're watching this
podcast, I don't know who youare.
September 1st, in my opinion,is too late that's my opinion I
(14:51):
don't you're gonna.
Speaker 3 (14:52):
Really.
I have no idea how long thatline's gonna be then, but yeah,
you're gonna be cutting itreally close.
Speaker 2 (14:56):
Yeah, that's all I'm gonna say.
Speaker 3 (14:58):
So be be wary of that um but as far as, like your
savings go.
So people are.
You know this big scare tacticit's gonna hurt the industry and
solar is going to go away,there's no more savings I tell.
I'm telling people that, yes,you know that that tax credit,
with it going away, does kind ofhurt your return on investment
or your savings, but it's stillthere.
Speaker 2 (15:18):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 3 (15:18):
You know we have a finance company where they show
you the loan payment kind ofreversed.
You know a lot of loancompanies will show you the
lowest payment and then when itre-amortizes it'll stay that way
.
But we have a finance partnerwhere it shows you the
worst-case scenario first, thisis your highest payment and even
then on those proposals, it'ssaving money.
It's not as great as if,obviously, the payment was lower
(15:39):
, but it's still saving money.
And then you also have to thinkabout, well, utility rates are
still going to increase.
Aps is trying to get a 14%increase as we speak.
Yeah, so you know, you gettinglocked in with your, with your
monthly payment, for, you know,25 years, if you're financing it
or you're, you know, doing yourlease is still good, because
utility rates are still going toincrease um over time.
(15:59):
Yes, so the savings is there,it's just not going to be as
great.
I always tell people I'm in theI told you so industry.
Yeah, you know, if you getsolar 10 years ago, those people
are sitting pretty and thenlike, oh, I want to wait a year.
Okay, well, come back and I'llsay I told you, so things have
changed.
Yeah, next year I'll tellpeople I told you, so things
have changed again.
Speaker 2 (16:15):
Yeah, so, and here's some things that are going to
change, so financing will change.
Um, I think financing you'llsee obviously is non-solar
financing.
I think you'll see differentlenders that aren't in solar
right now get into the business.
I've already heard about a fewlenders that are wanting to come
into this industry.
That never came in because theydidn't like the whole
re-amortization and the solarside the ITC side of it.
(16:37):
They're looking at traditionalloans right.
So you're going to see moretraditional loans.
You're going to see, right nowyou have these low interest,
high fee loans.
I think that's going to change.
I think the industry has toadjust right.
The industry lost a 30% taxcredit and I think what you'll
see when all the dust settles islower fees on loans.
(16:59):
You might then start seeingequipment pricing come down a
little bit.
There'll be gains in otherplaces.
Sure, I think one of thebiggest things that you'll see
will be dealers.
So we've talked about this inthe past with these sales and
marketing dealers that are outthere.
They just sell solar and theyhook up with somebody like us to
install it, and they have to dothat for a price.
(17:19):
Obviously, getting leads is aprice.
Knocking doors is a price.
Commission, they have to makecommission right.
And so I think what's happenedwith this outside of a lease is
their commission ability hasgone from here, will go down to
here, Right.
So I think a lot of thosepeople that are used to saying
hey, we talked about it in ournext episode about deceptive
tactics, Solar is this cash graband they can make a ton of
(17:41):
money in it.
Speaker 3 (17:41):
I made 20 grand this week.
Speaker 2 (17:43):
Guys that are making 60 grand a month.
Yeah, it kind of goes away,right it does.
So this kind of helps theindustry a little bit.
It kind of gets rid of some ofthese deceptive people that were
out there giving us all a badname.
So I'm not upset that thishappened, that's true.
I think it actually helps acompany like ours because it's
going to get some of thosepeople out of the industry.
(18:03):
Yeah, so it's not a bad thing,it's really not, and we're going
to be focused on finding thosesweet spots to offer you solar
as well, if you're going to cashor finance.
So we'll always have a goodoffer to you.
Always we have a good offer.
Today, we'll have a great offerto you after this is all said
and done, what you'll need to becareful is leasing right.
Leasing is a great tool.
I love leasing, but a lot ofthese dealers that will try to
(18:26):
survive, I mean, they're goingto go out there and all they're
going to have is leases and youknow, just watch escalators and
other things.
We'll probably have a leasepodcast where we'll break down
at least how it really works.
I know we've kind of done that,but I think we'll focus more on
that after that dust settlesfor this.
Speaker 3 (18:39):
Yeah, because as the industry will change, we're
going to be more about it and Ithink what is also going to
happen is you're going to havethose, um, those smaller
companies who aren't welldiversified.
Unfortunately, they might gounder, just because I think they
will.
That this is what they reliedon.
They only relied on residentialsolar sales, and right that you
know obviously the strong willsurvive, only the strong will
survive.
(18:59):
So then you have all thosecustomers who have solar on
their home and they go.
Where do they go?
Right, you know, we'll still behere.
We're very diversified.
We have a service department,so I think you see a lot of
those smaller companies goingaway and now you need homeowners
who have solar, who need a newhome to service their system.
Speaker 2 (19:17):
So again, we are not dependent on residential solar.
That's not our whole business.
A lot of companies that's theirwhole business.
That's why Harman's been aroundfor 50 years, Right?
So that's a big deal.
And still, residential solar isgoing to be a good piece of
business for us.
It's not going to change.
We're not upset that thishappened.
It's funny.
Speaker 3 (19:34):
You know you have people that are flipping out
about it.
Speaker 2 (19:35):
We're like I think it's a good thing.
Speaker 3 (19:37):
It's got its pros and cons to it.
Speaker 2 (19:40):
We'll be all right, though it's got its pros and and
.
If you're outside of Arizona, Imean.
So there's other states againwhere they have other incentives
.
They still have the SRECs, theystill have township incentives,
they have utility incentives.
So you need to look at thedifferent areas where you live
and see what's still going to bein play.
Yeah, you may have lost the ITC, but you still have other stuff
(20:01):
that makes it really doable.
So solar's not going anywhere.
Solar's still really viable.
I know there's programs inTexas alone that are fantastic
for solar and will be even afterthis all passes.
So no, there's some really goodprograms out there.
Speaker 3 (20:15):
Yeah, and, like I said earlier, it's going to be
kind of a gold rush.
But I think that's an importantquestion to ask your solar
company.
If you're going to quote Againwe've mentioned it many times we
don't really care if you gowith us or not.
We're going to be here, we'regoing to be just fine.
We would prefer that you gowith a legitimate company.
But if you are at the table andyou're talking to your sales
rep, ask them how long they'vebeen in business.
Yeah, because in the nextcouple of months it's going to
change dramatically.
(20:36):
Be more aware of that now thanever before.
Right, if they said, oh, hasn'tbeen around that long?
Speaker 2 (20:52):
it's like when we post our, we have two podcasts
right now sitting in queue toget out to you guys we're gonna
be coming out soon but when wepost one of them, where we talk
to neil our buddy neil and youguys will see what that's about.
He talked about that.
Yeah, you got to look and seehow long have these people been
around?
Yeah, have they been around as?
Long as the warranties arepromising.
Speaker 3 (21:07):
Yeah, If they haven't you better think twice.
Right, right, we have.
So, yeah, with the tax creditsgoing away, you know there's a
company might go under.
You have that 20, 25 year laborwarranty with that company.
Yep, and they have only beenaround for a couple of years.
Speaker 2 (21:23):
Yep and so, hey, that's really what we wanted to
talk about today.
There's not a lot more to talkabout for this episode.
Or it's important to you, thenyou would need to make a
decision quickly.
If it doesn't matter to you andthat doesn't do anything for
(21:51):
you, then you don't have toworry about it.
You can just keep going thepath you were going down,
because, again, leasing will beavailable, solar will be
available.
It's still a purchase if youneed it, so don't worry about
that.
If you want to discuss more,reach out to us on Comment below
, email us, call us, we're here,we'll talk about it, just like
we had one of our listeners, oneof our viewers, who called both
of us yesterday I think it wasyeah who wants to go solar, and
(22:14):
he trusts us and he watches ourpodcast and he knows that we're
going to give it to you guysstraight.
So we really appreciate that.
That's a big deal to us to hearin you.
To go solar that's, that's cool.
Speaker 1 (22:28):
We're here for that and we'll do it for you If you
go with somebody else.
Speaker 2 (22:30):
Like Ben said, we're here for you as well, to kind of
walk you through that if youhave questions.
So that's it for this episode.
I know this is a short one, butwe just wanted to get this out
there very quickly.
Thanks as always.
Thanks always for joining us.
We will come back soon with thenext episode, the next real big
episode we're seeing.
We've got a couple of thingsthat we're working on right now,
so we'll see you again soon.
That's it.
(22:51):
Talk to you soon.
Bye.
Speaker 1 (22:53):
You've been listening to the Harmon Solar Podcast,
with Ben and Ralph bringingclarity to the intersection of
solar power and smart homeownership.
If you found this episodehelpful, don't forget to like,
comment and subscribe, and alsoshare the show with others
navigating the solar journey.
For questions and topicsuggestions, call 800-281-3189
(23:15):
or visit harmandsolarcom.
You can also connect with theteam on social media.
See you next episode.
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