December 2, 2024 • 43 mins
Ready to unlock the current status of Arizona's solar market? Discover how the sun-drenched state stands out as a prime location for solar energy and why it's a hotspot for installations despite market fluctuations. We'll explore the distinctive factors that make Arizona irresistible for solar despite current day economic challenges. These challenges have left several large solar installation companies to disappear leaving countless customers without support. Fear not—Harmon Solar stands strong, offering stability and reliability for those affected. Our insights into the cyclical solar market reveal how factors like the economy and elections impact solar sales, with a notable business surge post-election. Also join our enlightening Q&A session as we tackle burning questions about solar installations and incentives. Stay with us as we continue to empower you with the knowledge to make informed solar energy decisions.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Welcome to another edition of the Harman Solar
Podcast.
I'm Rob Romano, VP of Sales andMarketing at Harman Solar.
With me is my partner, asalways, Ben Wolfschlager.
You guys know him as MrEverything and we did change his
title.
Underneath there you can see itsays Mr Everything because he
did complain about being calledMr Something.
Speaker 1 (00:41):
I didn't complain, I was just accepting it.
Well, I know in his personallife.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
It had some impact, so we went and changed it to mr
everything okay, all right youfeeling better now?
Speaker 1 (00:46):
yeah, I'm feeling better, mr.
Everything back at it again.
Let's do this, okay.
Season four of the podcastclick no.
Speaker 2 (00:53):
So today we're gonna.
We've been talking about doingthis and there's a lot of things
that are going on right nowwith elections and everything
else and, uh, some news aboutdifferent installers and other
things.
Um, so we would basicallythought we would do almost like
a current status in Arizona whenit comes to solar, kind of like
a State of the Union in a sense.
Yeah Right, so who better to dothat than me and you.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
Yeah, you should have changed your background a
little presidential seal.
I thought about it, that wouldhave been cool.
Speaker 2 (01:17):
That would have been cool.
The Arizona flag, yeah, yeah,no, thanks, okay, you know,
thanks, okay on that note, onthat note.
So that's what we're going todo today.
We're going to talk about, kindof what's going on in arizona.
We got some different thingsand different um things that are
contributing to the marketright now, and then at the end
we're going to go ahead and wehave some questions from
listeners and viewers and we'regoing to tackle some of those as
well yeah, I don't know if anyunder any other industries like
(01:40):
us we are constantly evolving
Speaker 1 (01:42):
every six months it's not something that you just oh,
this is how solar is and thisis how it will always be for the
20, 30, 40, 50 years.
Like I'm always learning, likeevery week, like, oh, guess what
?
Now this now.
This changed now this changed,so constantly adapting and as
homeowners, you need to knowwhat those changes are I mean,
we've been doing.
Speaker 2 (01:58):
I've been doing this for almost 12 years.
How long you've been doing this?
10 years, so in and 10 years, Ithink, things changed every six
or eight months.
There's something that changes,and they're not minor changes
either.
Right, so the core of solar isgoing to always be the same, but
then there's everything elsearound it that we constantly
have to change with and adopt to, and if we don't, then it's not
a good thing for us or ourbusiness.
So, yeah, so we bring thisknowledge to you.
(02:20):
We've been doing this a longtime.
You're welcome.
Yeah, we typically see thecycles of solar every year and
how they go as far as sales andeverything else, and this year
has been different.
Yeah, a little different, alittle different.
I think there's a lot offactors into that.
I think it's the economy, theelection and all these other
things, but We've had majorswings.
Speaker 1 (02:40):
Yeah, we've had.
Speaker 2 (02:40):
It's major Up and down, yeah, big time.
So we're going to kind of getinto what's causing that to
happen and what's going on inArizona with solar right now.
So let's talk about why Arizonais the place that people want
to come and sell solar, becausethere's a reason for that.
What's the reason, ben?
Speaker 1 (02:54):
Why do they come here ?
Everyone always thinks theobvious reason oh, there's sun
all the time.
Sure, yeah, all the time incalifornia, what new mexico?
And texas and louisiana, allthe southern states.
But you have to, you have torealize it's not just the sun
factor, because there's suneverywhere in hawaii, right,
yeah, I hope so.
How?
How is solar in hawaii, though?
Speaker 2 (03:16):
ralph bad yeah, see, very bad it's, it's not always
used to be the best.
Speaker 1 (03:21):
Now it's Exactly.
It's not always sunshine andrainbows pun intended, hawaii,
rainbow Warriors.
So Arizona is good because wehave kind of a good trifecta of
things, the sun obviously beingone, utility rates is favorable
for solar as well, and then justthe products that we have
available for us.
(03:42):
Yeah, all those combined makesArizona solar great, whereas you
have states like you know.
Let's take the Northeast, inMassachusetts, you know a lot of
people think like oh, you know,massachusetts is cloudy and
snowy, it's not good for solar.
Speaker 2 (03:58):
Wrong, it's a great place.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
It's actually a great place for solar because they
have other aspects thatinfluence.
You know their utility ratesand pricing and things like the
incentives.
Yes, that makes solarattractive there.
It's almost free there.
Yeah, it's because of theincentives.
It's crazy, it is crazy.
So, yeah, it's not necessarilythe state that you're in and how
much sun you get, it's all thefactors so you have to weigh
into right market factors andconditions apply.
(04:21):
Yeah, and I'm sure I knowthere's other states.
Um, I think north dakota isanother state where it's like
solar is not that great but it'sokay.
But again, you know, we peopleare thinking, oh, because they
don't have sun.
No, it's utility rates, it'swhat equipment they have.
Speaker 2 (04:35):
You know how are things handled, their incentives
, things like that oklahoma,which used to be okay for solar
then it got really good nowbecause the rates are going
through the roof by theutilities out there.
Yeah, they've finally decidedthat they want people to pay
more.
And, of course, oklahoma is agas oil state, right.
So you have the issues there ofpeople's mindset as, hey, we
like gas and oil, we don't likerenewables.
You're the devil, right.
(04:56):
So I mean you have there'schallenges there, but it's
getting more and more popularbecause of what they're doing
with the rates there.
So there's all these conditionsthat are always going to affect
every industry or every marketfor this industry.
So Arizona, like you just said,we use a ton of power because
it's God awful hot here, youknow, six, seven months a year.
We don't really have a fall.
We get a tiny winter and a tinyspring, and then it's hot again
(05:18):
.
Speaker 1 (05:18):
Yeah, our seasons are hot and not as hot, yeah.
Speaker 2 (05:27):
So our usage is through the roof.
Our rates are historically havebeen lower than most of the
country until the last few yearswhere they've really gone up,
which as a solar company, you'relike okay.
Well, that just makes ourproduct more viable for people
as the rates continue to go up.
So when the utilities continueto raise rates, you need to look
at ways to offset that, andthat's what solar is for.
So solar has been more, it'smore and more.
It's more beneficial for peopleas the rates continue to go up
in this state and they willcontinue to go up, as you hear.
Speaker 1 (05:49):
And who knows, you know, 50, 60 years from now,
arizona might not be a goodstate for solar, it's true,
because of incentives or otherfactors.
It might be.
It might be a clear winner.
I mean, there's a lot ofreasons.
It might turn into like a Hawaii, a hawaii situation where it
was good at one point but thennow it's not so great, right.
So you know arizona, we don'tknow, but you know for right now
and for the you know smallfuture ahead, I guess next few
(06:12):
years, it is a good spot forsolar point of reference for
hawaii.
Speaker 2 (06:14):
It was great until they basically overloaded the
grid.
Their grids completelyoverloaded and you can't put
solar on it yeah you have tohave a battery to unload your
your power, because the gridcan't take it.
So, yeah, Hawaii's a mess.
I remember five, six years ago,seven years ago, everybody used
to go out to Hawaii and sellsolar.
It was fantastic then, yeah, itwas crazy.
But now it's like people, it'slike stay away.
And California is becoming thesame thing now because of the
(06:36):
rules that they've changed whereit's not as great as it used to
be.
So again to Ben's point thisstuff changes all the time.
Arizona's been prettyconsistent for the last 12 years
.
For the most part this is thefirst time we've really seen,
I'd say in the last four yearsthe rates have really started to
climb.
So, that's what happens, though.
Right as time goes on,everything goes more expensive,
so that's why people come toArizona, right?
(06:57):
They know this is a solidmarket where you can come and
sell solar.
There's a lot of companies thatcome here.
Speaker 1 (07:02):
It's easy, right, just come here and sell solar.
It's so easy.
We've talked about this in thepodcast.
Speaker 2 (07:07):
I hate how companies come out here and just try to
sell solar like the placethey're from yeah, because we're
not the place they're from,right and then when you talk to
the people that are coming fromthe different states, they're
not giving you the accurateinformation because they don't
take how we do in Texas.
Speaker 1 (07:21):
Yeah, exactly, texas isn't Arizona, exactly.
Speaker 2 (07:23):
So you gotta be always careful of who you're
buying something from, um, andthen here's a big phenomenon.
So we all I think we've allfelt the impacts of the economy
the last four years I mean, thisisn't a political statement,
but it's a reality right thelast four years since the
pandemic inflation's high.
Inflation has gone up, we knowit Right and it impacts
everything Our interest rates.
Just to give you an example,our interest rates four or five
(07:45):
years ago were 0.49 on some ofthe loans.
Half a percent.
Right, think about that.
And now, now you know a loan isat 8%, you know 9%.
Yeah, you know cause, and weall talk about loans have fees
behind them, right, those feeshave ballooned as well.
Sure, so if you want to try toget down to like a 4% loan, the
(08:11):
balloon fees behind it justdon't make it work.
So the economy has definitelyimpacted this industry
nationwide for the last five,four years, four and a half
years.
I'm going to start at thepandemic and go forward right.
It's definitely impacted it andthere have been some monsters in
the industry, huge installersthat you know.
They're like 28, 29 States,they do a lot of business.
They're gone.
I mean, they were billiondollar companies two, three
(08:32):
years ago that don't existanymore.
That's crazy to think about,Right, I mean.
So think about that.
There's a lot of installers inArizona that we've known for
years and they don't.
They're not here anymore, Nope.
We've known for years and theydon't.
They're not here anymore, Nope.
So what's the impact of thatthere?
There is an impact to that.
Speaker 1 (08:51):
And why is Harmon still here?
Yeah, why is Harmon?
We pay our bills.
I guess we keep the lights on.
Speaker 2 (08:56):
Well, we'll get to that in a second.
So first of all, those thoseinstallers going away, we know
have impacted some of youbecause some of you have gone
solar in this state through someof those companies and they're
longer here.
So what does that mean?
Right?
What does that?
How does that?
How does that hurt them?
Speaker 1 (09:08):
So installers that have packed up and left.
So what you have to realize iswell, okay.
Well, what did I get from themspecifically?
Right?
What did I buy?
What's the warranty that I havewith them?
Do I have a workmanshipwarranty or roof warranty,
things that?
So I got that from them.
Now they're no longer here.
Is my warranty still valid?
Nope, nope, their workmanshipwarranty isn't.
(09:30):
But, like the equipment that youhave, the equipment you know if
it's a manufacturer you knowrec panels or hondwa panels or
you know whatever type of panelsthat's a manufacturer um right,
um warranty.
Same thing with your inverter.
You have n phase or sma ortesla or whatever.
Those companies are still inbusiness so you still have the
warranties with them, but theinstaller is no longer there, so
(09:52):
their workmanship warranty isgoing to be separate from your
manufacturer warranty.
Speaker 2 (09:55):
So it's so important.
We say there's all that, we'vebeen saying this since day one
know who's installing your solar.
Yes, yes, you, yes.
You have to know that it's soimportant because these things
can happen and those people, noware you in a bad place.
Well, you're not in a greatplace.
You still have solar, I'd say,which is good.
It's still producing, hopefully.
But when it stops producing,who do you call and you're
(10:17):
having issues at?
Who do you call Ghostbuster?
Who do you call you?
Who do you call?
You call Harmon solar, right?
Um, because thankfully we havea very big service department
and we've we've taken on so much, so many customers like this um
in the last six months becausetheir installers are gone.
Speaker 1 (10:32):
Yeah, I, I always relate it and I've, I know, I've
said it several times to yourcheck engine light or your car
you know, just cars in generalauto store.
It's you know small little mompop shop that just came up, and
joe's auto store, joe's autostore.
Yeah, I've seen that place visitthem at joe's auto storecom.
(10:52):
No, and you buy a car from them.
Let's say you buy a fordexplorer, okay, and a couple
years down the road joe's autoshop packs up and they're no
longer in business joe's gone.
Does that mean that yourwarranty for your ford explorer
is gone?
no you know, your check enginelight comes on or something that
happens to your car, you cantake that to any other dealer.
You can take it to any otherservice provider and get it
(11:15):
fixed.
Because their car is a ford, ithas that manufacturer warranty.
Other service providers canhelp fix that car.
You know, just because yourdealership is gone doesn't mean
your warranty is gone.
So same thing with solar.
If the company that youpurchased it from is no longer
in business, yes, theirwarranties for their labor is no
longer going to be valid, butyour manufacturer warranties are
(11:37):
still there.
So you could take your solarsystem not literally, by the way
to any other service providerand get it serviced.
Unscrew it from your roof, packit up.
I've got my solar system here.
It's not working.
Don't know why I'm twitching,cause it's in your hands.
Speaker 2 (11:53):
So anyway, yeah, that's that's the reality of
what that means to the industry.
So those companies that havegone away, I mean you just again
reach out to us, we'll help you, we can us, we'll help you, we
can help you run the warranty uhjobs through the, through the
manufacturers, um, if they coverlabor on the warranty jobs and
you're in great shape.
If not, then we would have tokick in and, you know, charge
you for warranty.
Obviously we can't give youtheir workmanship or their stuff
.
You're not gonna.
That just goes away.
(12:13):
Your workmanship warranty isgone.
Speaker 1 (12:15):
Right, your roof warranty is gone right.
We can't warrant their othertheir workmanship warranty
because what if they did a badjob?
Speaker 2 (12:20):
exactly.
Speaker 1 (12:21):
We can't cover that, and they probably did.
They probably did.
That's why they're not here.
Speaker 2 (12:25):
So I mean that's been a big impact in this state.
In the last six months We'veseen a couple or more installers
go down.
So if you're in that situation,never fear Harmon's here.
Speaker 1 (12:38):
Oh my gosh, I did say that.
Oh, there he is, but it is true, we are here and we can help
you through it.
Speaker 2 (12:41):
Just give our service department a call if you're
having an issue, we'll help you.
Yeah, so at least you know yougot you got someone here that
can partner with you, um, butthat is the reality of what's
happening in this industry.
As they disappear.
Harman's not disappearing andhere's the reason why.
So we've been around since 75,so we've been here a long time.
We've seen a lot of ebbs andflows, a lot, and ebb is, yeah,
(13:03):
we've seen a lot.
But the difference is Harmondoesn't rely solely on
residential solar.
That's not our only business.
It's part of our business andit's not even the biggest part
of our business.
It's an important part of ourbusiness and it's a good size
part.
But we are big in other areas.
We do a lot of commercial solar.
We do commercial electrical.
You see a hotel going up.
We're doing the wiring a lot oftimes in those hotels.
(13:24):
You see these mass um buildingsgoing up commercially and stuff
.
We're doing a lot of the solarparking lots and the bill.
We do all that kind of stuffplus a couple other things.
Like I said, we have a hugeservice department.
We're very diversified as acompany with ev network.
Our ev network is big, yeah, sowe're not sitting around just
relying on one part of theindustry to either make or break
(13:44):
us.
That's just not smart business.
Speaker 1 (13:46):
Yeah, which is scary because if that residential
section does go down, then whatIf you have a company that
relies 100% on one revenuestream and that goes down?
Well then that's why you packup and leave.
Yep got to diversify yourbusiness and during this year.
Speaker 2 (14:02):
You we've seen a lot of the residential solar market
at the beginning of the yeartook a huge hit in Arizona and
nationally.
Because of the economy, becauseof the interest rates, because
of the dealer fee, I meaneverything.
It took a huge hit.
People didn't have money tospend.
The savings spread wasn't whatit used to be when you get a
proposal, so people were lessapt to want to go solar because
(14:23):
of that.
Speaker 1 (14:25):
But what happened with the commercial industry
during that time?
It blew up exactly.
It was just the opposite itquadrupled in size.
Speaker 2 (14:30):
Yeah, it was crazy, right.
And then our electricalbusiness again blew up.
Our service business was alwaysjust steady and good.
So did we feel the effect of it?
Yeah, a little bit we felt it,but not to the point of some of
these companies that said wecan't do this anymore.
We got to go right.
So that's why it's importantalways know who your installer
is, do some research on them,see what they're in business to
do.
(14:50):
Is it?
Are they just a residentialsolar company?
Speaker 1 (14:53):
that's a good question that's a little scary
if you're.
You know you're getting solarfor your home and you're sitting
at the table with the salesconsultant.
Obviously you're going to askthem questions about your home
and the proposal and all thatstuff.
Ask them about their company asa whole too.
What other revenue streams doyou guys have If they're like
none red flag.
Speaker 2 (15:11):
That's a red flag red flag.
I'm not going to say it, but Ialways think of the movie Tommy.
And when he talks about puttingthe warranty on the box, you
know, say the line.
I know I'm not going to say it.
We have a lot of companies outhere that tell you oh, I'm going
to give you this 40 yearwarranty, we're going to give
you this 35 billion year roofwarranty.
You know we'll do.
And I always laugh at that.
I'm like the warranty is onlyas good as the paper it's on
(15:33):
right.
I mean, it's garbage.
Look at the company.
How long have they been around?
What do they do?
Are they stable?
Because if they're not, theycan tell you whatever they want
to tell you.
And then what happened thisyear?
They're gone, yep.
Speaker 1 (15:45):
Now, what Got you to buy it?
Yep.
Speaker 2 (15:49):
Thanks for signing on the line.
This is a long to 30 yearcommit.
You got to look at it that way.
So know who you're gettinginstalled from.
Ask the right questions.
Yeah, ask the right questions.
So these are all the impactsthat are happening in the
industry for those people thatdidn't ask the right questions.
Right now they're feeling it sonot a good thing.
All right.
So solar companies as well.
So you have your installers,like us, and then you have your
(16:10):
companies out there We've talkedabout this on one of our
podcasts that are just solarsales companies.
Right Now.
We are a hybrid.
We do both.
So we have an internal salesteam.
We have an install, you know,installation crew.
We do all that stuff.
We also have partners that donothing but just sell solar.
They're.
We call them dealers, whateveryou want to call them.
They're independent salescompanies.
They're not bad, but I'm justsaying you should do your
(16:33):
research into them as well.
Who are they working with?
Who's the installer they'reworking with?
Speaker 1 (16:38):
Who are they?
Speaker 2 (16:39):
Where are they from?
Are they local?
Are they not local?
Do they have a local office?
If they don't, that would scareme a little bit.
Speaker 1 (16:45):
They come to us, you know, or you know companies like
us, because they have a goodreputation, they have a good
install record, they have, youknow, things like that.
So when you are sitting at thetable with that sales consultant
and like, hey, this is mycompany, this is who we sell for
, ask them who's going to beinstalling?
Yes, okay, now ask those samequestions about the install
(17:06):
company.
So if Harman's going to be yourinstall company, if some other
company sold you the system,okay, well, what's Harman's
revenue streams and things likethat.
How long has Harman been inbusiness?
Because that's ultimately who'sgoing to be installing my
system and I need to know aboutthem.
Speaker 2 (17:18):
Yeah, it's important we partner with some good
dealers.
We vet the dealers the bestthat we can Doesn't mean they're
perfect, but we do vet them thebest that we can.
There are certain things welook for, certain questions that
we ask, so we try to work withsome of the best.
Does it always work out?
Not always, but it works outmost of the time.
So you need to be, you need towatch these companies.
So right now we're in November,we're post-election and it's
(17:40):
door knocking season in Arizona.
This is when it's nice and cool.
It's going to be cool probablythrough about April, middle of
May, where it's not unbearable.
So it's door knocking season.
Your doors are going to startgetting knocked and I know
you've been here for any amountof years and I know you've been
here for any amount of years.
Speaker 1 (17:54):
This has been going on for a while.
I used to go out on Halloweendoor knock.
Speaker 2 (17:57):
Did you?
Speaker 1 (17:58):
Yeah, they're going to answer.
Yeah, we're going to.
We're going to have to meetwith Ben about that.
Speaker 2 (18:01):
Um, I'm just kidding I didn't, but yeah, so they're
going to answer trick or treat.
Speaker 1 (18:05):
Why am I solar?
That was my pitch to you.
It's the only kind of half Goodideas.
No, I wouldn't say that.
Speaker 2 (18:15):
But it's door-knocking season, so your
door's going to start gettingknocked.
You need to start.
You know when that happens.
Just make sure, if you get intoa conversation, ask the
questions we're telling you toask, because some companies and
not all of them, but there aresome companies out there that
will come in here and they'llfly in 20 guys and they'll go
and they'll sell for as high asthey can sell and then they get
out.
Speaker 1 (18:35):
They're called blitzes.
Speaker 2 (18:36):
Yeah, they do solar blitzes, so beware of solar
blitzes.
They're very popular in Arizona.
Um, they're like a bunch ofroaches that they.
They go out there and they goall over the neighborhoods and
they do everything that they canand then they leave.
Speaker 1 (18:46):
You see a big van pull up and 20 guys hop out.
You know you know what's goingto happen.
Speaker 2 (18:50):
See if the guys that you're working for are local I
think it's important and whothey're partnered with.
That's also important.
So you have two things toreally look at Very, very
important.
But watch out for that, becausethat's going to be happening
right now.
Just know who you're buyingfrom and know who's installing.
Those are the two.
If you haven't learned anythingat all on this podcast who are
you buying from?
Who's doing the installation?
Speaker 1 (19:11):
Yeah, Really, yeah, really look into those two
things?
Speaker 2 (19:20):
yeah, because a lot of people just look at the price
, like, oh, it's a good price.
Ah, yes, it is a good price,but yeah, you might have to pay
for it in the end.
What do they say?
The the pain of the low price.
I can't remember what.
There's a whole saying about it, but anyway, I'm not that's
your ear old, this old sayingwords of wisdom anyway.
Um, the other thing I reallykind of wanted to focus on is
the election does have an impact.
It's had an impact on thismarket.
We talked about the economy andwhat it's done to the industry
(19:41):
over the last couple of years.
Economy is key in this business.
I mean we need interest ratesto be down and we need fees to
be down in order to create thatgood spread for you to make good
money on your solar investment.
That spread was here.
You know it's done this.
It's starting to do this again.
So it's starting to be a reallygood time to start looking into
(20:01):
solar again and I think, withthe results of the election,
you're going to see if theeconomy changes the way people
think it will, the way theexperts think it will.
These next few years,especially for solar, could be
really good.
So watch the economy and how itmoves it really good, yeah.
So watch the economy and how itmoves.
It definitely impacts what youcan make and obviously it
impacts what you can spend,because we've seen it the day
(20:22):
after the election, our businesspicked up 200%, like that,
because now people are like theyfeel there are people and on
that whatever side feel that.
Hey, I think I'm going to havemoney going forward.
I feel good about the resultsand I want to spend.
Or some people probably justsaid I'm glad the dang
election's over.
I don't want to hear that noiseanymore.
Speaker 1 (20:37):
I just want to get back to life back to life.
Speaker 2 (20:41):
Whatever.
It doesn't matter what sideyou're on.
It's just a point of a countryright now has got a good vibe
and people are starting to spendmoney again, and we're seeing
it.
We had Mike Wiley here for thereal estate guy not too long ago
and he was saying the samething he houses that started
having showings and stuff thatweren't showing, yeah, so that's
all a great vibe going on, sotake advantage of the good vibe.
Speaker 1 (20:58):
I would say there you go, another Harmon Solar
tagline.
Speaker 2 (21:01):
You know.
And then another thing to thinkabout is the ITC, you know.
Speaker 1 (21:06):
That's big.
Speaker 2 (21:06):
You know what changes will happen with the ITC
because of the election.
What's the impact on the ITC?
That's a question we're hearinga lot too.
Itc that's a question we'rehearing a lot too.
Speaker 1 (21:15):
The answer is I don't know.
Yeah, the truth is we don'tknow a lot.
There's a lot of speculationsof where it's going to go and
how it's going to, you know,phase out, or if it'll phase out
things like that.
The truth is no one knows.
Speaker 2 (21:25):
Nobody does and what they look at is when a
Republican is in control.
Typically they're gas and oilfocused and they don't really
like renewables a whole lot, butthey compromise sometimes Right
.
When Trump was in office in2016,.
It wasn't bad for solar, it wasgood for solar.
Yeah, you figure, when theDemocrats get in office, they're
very pro-renewable, so thingsget better as far as the
(21:46):
renewable industry.
So, yes, the policy got alittle better, the ITC got
extended and all that, but theeconomy did bad, so it actually
hurt the business.
So it was, you know,double-edged sword in a sense.
But we'll watch that and we'llalmost kind of see where that
goes.
I'm pretty optimistic about umagain going forward.
Speaker 1 (22:01):
We've been around since the seventies.
I think we've seen majorchanges.
Speaker 2 (22:05):
Yeah, it's called the solar coaster, right For a
reason.
Speaker 1 (22:07):
Yeah, we, we've been there, we've done that.
Whatever you know the economyor you know politics throws at
us, I think we'll be okay.
Speaker 2 (22:13):
Yeah, so the state of Arizona is hey, things are good
right now.
They're getting better.
Um, we're getting into theheavy season for for people that
are going to come in here andsell solar.
So you need to arm yourself andbe careful.
That's why we give you thesepodcasts.
These podcasts are yourammunition right.
Take these podcasts, listen tothem, understand them.
So when someone knocks on yourdoor, if you're interested in
solar, you can ask the rightquestions.
(22:34):
You can do the right things toprotect yourself and your family
.
If you want to go solar, invitethem in and then have them
watch the podcast.
Speaker 1 (22:41):
Come on, come on in, sit down.
Speaker 2 (22:42):
I'm going to show you something you have no idea the
amount of people that I've heardfrom in the last year We've
been doing this for over a yearnow.
It's been over a year thatwe've been doing podcasts and
the amount of people thatreference this podcast in those
sit downs.
I've heard about it from.
I'm not.
I'm not crying, you're crying.
Speaker 1 (23:01):
No.
Speaker 2 (23:02):
I've heard it from companies that are out there
selling.
I've heard it from people thathave bought solar.
I've heard it from ourcustomers that come to us
because of the podcast.
I think mission accomplished.
We set out to do something.
We set out to arm people.
Where's the applause button?
Yeah, we need applause rightnow, but we did.
We had our mission.
We set out to arm people withknowledge so that they can
protect themselves, and I thinkwe've done it and we're hearing
(23:24):
that feedback now more than ever.
Speaker 1 (23:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (23:26):
It took about a year, I think, really for it to
really kick in.
Sounds about right and it'sgood, so I'm glad we were able
to do that.
Speaker 1 (23:33):
so you know yeah, I'm not gonna.
I'm not gonna take all thecredit.
Ralph deserves some of it youdo, I do at least 20 of the
credit ralph.
Even hannah deserves some of it.
Speaker 2 (23:43):
Maybe let's not get crazy and we'll keep doing this
and we'll keep bringing you newthings.
Obviously, we've slowed down alittle bit because we've hit so
many things, yeah, but we reallythought it'd be important at
least give you a hey.
This is what's going on inArizona right now.
This is where we stand, um, andwe're looking to a really
bright future, and so I thinkthe next four years are going to
be phenomenal.
I'm looking forward to it.
Yeah, um, so that's the goodnews.
(24:04):
Now we also have do youanything else you want to hit on
that?
Nope, and Ben's gone.
So we do have some questionsfrom viewers and listeners, so
we're going to hit some of thosetoo.
Oh, q and A session.
We do have a Q and A session.
Let's do it.
So let's do a Q and A session,and it's funny, a lot of them
apply to what we're saying.
So here's the first one.
Speaker 1 (24:22):
I did not prep for this, by the way.
Speaker 2 (24:24):
Yeah, no, I just got these yeah what qualifies me,
disqualifies me, etc.
Speaker 1 (24:38):
There's a whole lot in that question, yeah.
So what incentives?
Are there it's still the sameas it was last month of the.
You know they still have yourfederal tax credit and state tax
credit.
That hasn't changed right.
Speaker 2 (24:44):
So and that means nothing, nothing new, but let me
say this.
So if you're sitting theregoing, it's november today.
Today it's mid-november, rightnow, um, I can buy this and get
it installed and I can use thetax credit by the end of the
year.
No, good luck, you're not goingto get it.
Speaker 1 (25:00):
It's not going to happen.
Speaker 2 (25:01):
The way this industry works with all the companies
and all the jurisdictions thatwe rely on to get things done.
If you buy solar right now,you're not going to have it
installed and ready to go by theend of the year.
Speaker 1 (25:11):
It's just not going to happen.
I've told people that manytimes.
You know, come to our warehouse, we have the crews, we have all
the equipment we have.
You know, we have things.
We can install your stufftomorrow if we wanted to, but
it's not up to us, right, wehave there's protocol, there's
other jurisdictions, there'sother things that we have to do
in order to get it installed.
(25:33):
There're at their mercy, yep.
Speaker 2 (25:34):
So incentives haven't changed.
They're what they were.
What qualifies you ordisqualifies you?
Well, we've talked about thattoo.
It could be your credit.
It could be your moneysituation, your home, your house
, your usage, your orientation.
Go back and watch the podcast.
Speaker 1 (25:50):
Watch Solar 101.
Yeah, that'll qualify you.
Speaker 2 (26:02):
That's what qualifies you and disqualifies you.
Speaker 1 (26:03):
Nothing's changed there.
Okay.
Next question can my hoaprohibit me from going solar?
Yes and no.
99.99% of the time the answeris going to be no, they can't.
They can't do anything about it.
But there are some times where,if it's in like a historical, um
, historical district, wherethey can say you know, you, you
can't have it on, you knowfacing here, or you can't have
it at all.
But again, those are smalloutliers in certain communities,
you know like what, downtownPhoenix, things like that.
(26:23):
But in majority of the time theHOA cannot say you know you
can't have your solar system,you know on your roof they can.
It's kind of a weird, weirdrule.
They can say things like likewe don't want your panels here,
(26:49):
but according to you know thefederal government, basically,
you know they can't make adecision, decision based off of
if it'll impact your production.
So as long as it doesn't impactproduction, they can make a
decision on it.
Which is weird, because if theHOA says we don't want your
modules here, we want it overhere, well, that's going to
impact production Moving it.
Speaker 2 (27:03):
AZ Senate Bill 1254.
Yeah, that's what I was goingto reference.
Go look it up.
It basically protects thestipulated.
This is from July 2007.
It stipulates that a homeownerassociation may not prohibit the
installation or use of solarenergy devices.
There you go.
So they cannot tell you no.
Legally Right, they could askyou to move panels, like Ben
just said, or set it updifferently, as long as it
(27:25):
doesn't create a cost for youover and above what you're
paying.
Right, they can do that If itcreates an over and above cost
to you no, yep.
According to the bill.
And again the other thing aboutthat.
There, there, I can think ofone hoa in the valley that says,
nope, you're not installingsolar should we put their name
on them?
no, and it becomes.
(27:48):
It comes down to do you want tohave that fight?
Yeah with that hoa, you'll win,but you may lose other things.
Speaker 1 (27:57):
If you know what I mean.
Sure, yeah, yeah.
So you know.
The the second, a blade ofgrass or a weed comes on your
lawn.
You're going to get that fine.
Speaker 2 (28:03):
And that HOA is an affluent area.
Hoa, so that's the best.
I'll say Okay.
So you have to decide if it'sworth it to you or not.
At that point Can we put theirphone number at least no, okay,
that's number, at least no, okay, that's all I'm gonna say.
I'm not saying where can yougive us a hint, not gonna say
that it's close to a hill, allright, anyway, so that I hope
that answers that question okay,is it?
true that solar panels do notdirectly power your home, but
(28:25):
power the grid instead, andthat's where the buyback comes
from the utility when youproduce more than you use.
Speaker 1 (28:33):
I'm figuring that again.
Well, I kind of understand.
Speaker 2 (28:35):
Okay, go ahead.
Speaker 1 (28:38):
So your system is on your roof.
It's going to produce power.
That power has to go somewhere.
It's going to go to your housefirst, and then anything extra
goes to the grid.
Yeah Done, that's the simplestway to put it.
Speaker 2 (28:50):
Is it true that solar panels do not directly power
your home?
No, that's not true.
Speaker 1 (28:53):
It goes to your home.
Speaker 2 (28:54):
They go to your home and then your home tells the, so
that your home tells theelectricity where to go, right,
whether it tells it to go intothe house because you need it.
Right, going to my batterybecause my battery needs to be
picked up, or I don't need anyof this, send it back to the
grid, exactly so you make thedecision and there's there's
times you know during house butyou still need extra, so you're
(29:14):
pulling from the grid.
Speaker 1 (29:15):
So at that moment in time during the day you could be
getting power from both.
Speaker 2 (29:19):
Yeah the solar system and the grid?
Speaker 1 (29:21):
yeah, especially in summer yeah, but now you know my
ac is not running, my heater'snot running, nothing's on,
nothing's running really in myhouse.
I'm not not even there, so youknow I'm not pulling a lot of
electricity.
So solar system in that casewould be pushing all that power
to the grid, basically becausethere's nothing running at my
house.
Speaker 2 (29:38):
Yeah, and that's where the buyback does come from
.
Yeah, so when you don't needthe power and you send it back,
that's the buyback.
So yeah, it's a good questionactually.
Next, is it illegal to be offgrid in Phoenix, arizona or any
surrounding areas?
Speaker 1 (29:50):
It's not illegal.
Not illegal, it's just, it's adecision, it's the utility's
decision.
Speaker 2 (29:54):
if they allow it, Most people will tell you that
they don't allow it.
I know we used to say that foryears, but we've talked to a few
of the utilities and they'llsay they allow it.
But then they give you a listof things that you have to do to
qualify the amount of moneythat you'll spend just to do the
things that they want you to do.
You might as well just buyanother house.
Speaker 1 (30:10):
Yeah, it's ridiculous .
Speaker 2 (30:11):
It's pretty crazy.
So it's definitely notDefinitely not worth going off
grid in Arizona.
Now, if you're in the outsideareas where there's really no
grid, well then of course you'reoff grid, right, so that's what
you do.
Speaker 1 (30:21):
That's what I tell people.
If you have your house andyou've already started off the
grid, well then you're off thegrid.
Speaker 2 (30:26):
You're off the grid.
Speaker 1 (30:31):
If you have your house and you're in a
metropolitan area like theneighborhood behind Ralph right
now, you are on the grid.
So you've already onestablished grid right now.
Yeah, you can go off.
You can go If you've got thatkind of money go for it?
Speaker 2 (30:42):
I don't, that would be insane.
So anyway, I hope that answersthat question, because that's
that's actually a commonquestion.
We get Um and no, it's notillegal.
Speaker 1 (30:50):
No.
Yeah, a lot of people say heybatteries, because I don't want
to build from my utility company, I want to be completely off
the grid.
Well, guess what?
You're still going to beconnected to that grid with just
your solar system and yourbattery.
Speaker 2 (31:02):
Yeah, I haven't.
You're connected.
I have an off-grid 2k system inmy backyard that powers a mini
split and things in my garage.
That's it.
That's off-grid.
That's off-grid, but it doesn'tpower my house, right?
So if it were to power my house, I'd have to play by the rules
and connect it and do.
There'd be a bunch of stuff.
That's not what it is more of avanity project, yeah, but yeah
(31:24):
it's.
If you live in the metro area,you can do it.
Just you're gonna pay for it,not worth it.
Um, I could just do.
I can just install dual panewindows and add more insulation
in the attic, right?
It'd be the same savings butless maintenance.
Speaker 1 (31:39):
Interesting.
Speaker 2 (31:41):
That's a good question.
Speaker 1 (31:42):
I say go ahead, Go for it.
Speaker 2 (31:44):
Go for it.
There's a misnomer in theindustry, so a lot of people are
into selling the windows andall that stuff and that's great,
whatever you can do to makeyour house more efficient,
depending on the age of yourhouse.
Sure, I know that there'speople in the industry that have
said, oh yeah, if I do that Iget a 30%.
You know efficiency savings andthis, and that I've looked into
(32:06):
that.
That's not true at all.
It's not even close.
It's more like 10% maybe,depending on what you do, and I
don't know if numbers you lookedat.
Yeah, but, I've seen 10%.
Speaker 1 (32:17):
I haven't looked at the numbers, but I do tell
people, do all those energysaving tips.
You know Right, double pane,windows, insulation, all that
stuff.
It's just going to help reduceyour bill, yeah, but it's not
going to be as dramatic as whatsolar can do no way.
(32:41):
Because let's say, just don'tknow, three thousand dollars a
year.
Again, we look at itholistically a year.
So you're paying three thousanddollars a year for power and
then you get solar and you haveokay, you have some bills in,
you know, january, maybe earlyfebruary, but then march, april
and may you're in the negatives.
Um, I don't think you can get anegative bill when you have
double pane windows andinsulation.
So that's probably not going tohappen because during those
months you're pushing power tothe grid and they're buying it
(33:02):
from you.
So that's how you get thatnegative bill.
And then summer months, youknow, you might have, you know,
a couple hundred dollars hereand there and then it goes back
down to zero or negatives andaround this time, so
holistically, you have, you know, probably about a five, six
hundred dollar total billannually.
So you went from three thousanddollars to six hundred dollars.
Speaker 2 (33:19):
Yeah, in aps because of solar it's kind of like
putting a turbo on your carelaborate, go ahead.
I mean I get it, but for thepeople I mean it's kind of like
you have a high performing carand you want to make it go a
little faster.
You put something like a turbo,whatever else you can put on a
car to make it a little bit morefaster right, give it a little
bit more horsepower, or puttingone of those chips in your car
(33:39):
to make it a little quickerright, you can, you can help.
Yeah, solar, solar, solar isgoing to be the monster, solar
is the engine you can help thatengine with, by you know, maybe
doing windows or doing moreinsulation.
It all helps, like what you'resaying.
So, yeah, go ahead and do allof it.
We have a lot of solar partnersthat sell you solar.
They'll also put windows on it,they'll do doors, um, they'll
(34:01):
do insulation and all thesedifferent things.
So, yeah, it all works together.
It all works together.
Yeah, so, but they're partnerssolar is the engine, so solar is
the engine.
Everything else is the thingson the engine, around it and
stuff that help it go betteryeah, so see, that was good
analogy.
That was a good analogy, youjust gotta I wasn't sure where I
was going to specify the caryeah, first you know it's like
putting a turbo on a.
Speaker 1 (34:19):
Well, it's a 2000.
Speaker 2 (34:21):
No, it's a 2007 yugo?
Okay, all right.
Um, and we kind of talked aboutthis already, will the solar
industry be affected by theelection results, pro or con?
So we've, we'll see.
Yeah, we don't.
Speaker 1 (34:33):
We don't know we think so yeah, again it's, it's
not it's not, it's the economy,it's the.
Speaker 2 (34:38):
if the economy gets better, obviously that affects
everything.
Speaker 1 (34:41):
We've been through a lot of presidents so far at
Harmon.
We've seen a lot of financialcrises so far at Harmon and here
we are.
We're still there.
We had the housing crisis.
We're still here.
We had the COVID crash.
We're still here.
We had, you know we've hadeverything.
Speaker 2 (34:56):
We're still here, yeah.
So yeah, it's a wait and see,and the answer is we'll wait and
see.
We think it's going to bepositive.
I think it's going to bepositive, but that's my personal
opinion, so it's not a harmanopinion, it's my opinion ralph's
never wrong, so it's very rare.
You can ask my wife.
You know she says I am.
I'll tell her she's wrong.
Um, next question, please, doesthe does the solar company
(35:18):
receive the tax creditsavailable if the homeowner
leases the system?
And the homeowner does not?
Not the solar company, thatwould be us.
We're the installer.
If you get a lease, the leasecompany takes that credit and
they give you a better price forthe system as a result of
taking that credit.
Right, that's the point of alease.
Speaker 1 (35:36):
Yeah, your price should a result of taking that
credit.
Right, that's the point of alease.
Yeah, your price should beincluding of that tax credit.
Speaker 2 (35:41):
Right, they own the system.
They take the tax credits anddepreciation on that system.
They give you better pricingfor the power it produces.
Speaker 1 (35:48):
Yeah, it's a blanket statement.
Whoever owns the system gets atax credit Right.
So whether you purchase it oryou lease it, whoever owns it
gets a tax credit Right.
When you purchase it, you ownit, so you get the tax credit.
When you lease it, you don'town it Right, but somebody else
does Right.
So whoever owns it gets a taxcredit.
You buy the power, yeah.
Speaker 2 (36:06):
It's not your system.
The one on my roof is a lease.
It's not my system, but I buythe power and I buy.
If you're somebody that doesn'thave a tax liability and
doesn't pay the government everyyear, lease makes a lot of
sense.
It depends on you and yoursituation.
Talk to your tax accountant.
This is why you have that guyto tell you how this works.
But yes, that's a good question.
(36:26):
So is a home energy assessmentworth it with the utility
provider?
And can they tell me stuff?
A solar salesman can't, so Iknow that some utilities
actually do those assessments.
Is it worth it?
I don't know how much theycharge?
Speaker 1 (36:40):
I don't either.
I would have to know how muchthey charge to know if it's
worth it.
So that should probably tellyou the answer, because have I
ever done?
Speaker 2 (36:45):
one.
Speaker 1 (36:45):
No, no, because I mean, I'm in the industry, so I
know what to look for my ownhome.
You know, if I wanted my ownenergy assessment, I could just
do it myself free.
Speaker 2 (36:54):
yeah, I think third-party ones aren't.
Third-party ones are like $100.
Yeah, but I think the utilitywill do something like that for
free, because they come and theylook at light bulbs and they
look at all these differentthings.
Speaker 1 (37:04):
Well then, if it's free, the answer is always yes,
it's worth it.
Speaker 2 (37:06):
Yeah, I mean if it's not going to cost you anything,
go ahead, do it.
Listen, depends.
Yeah, I mean a solar salesmanshould know solar like the back
of their hand and understandwhat it can do for you.
They should understand thethings around it that contribute
to your energy as well.
It just depends on the salesguy.
Speaker 1 (37:26):
It depends on the sales guy.
It depends on the person you'retalking to with the utility,
because I've talked to people um, you know solar sales people
and I'm just like, wow, youdon't know anything about solar
and how long you've been doingthis, yeah.
Then I've talked to other solarsalespeople, like, wow, you do
know a lot.
Yeah, it just depends.
I've talked to people at theutility company and like, wow,
you don't know anything aboutsolar, do you?
But then I've also talked toother people at the utility
company and go, yeah, you doknow what you're talking about.
(37:47):
So it's going to depend.
Speaker 2 (37:50):
I agree.
I mean, I don't think it solar,especially if you're talking to
harman.
Um, I'm all about getting moreinformation, though yeah, I'm an
information guy too, so get itif, especially if it's free.
Why wouldn't you at leastlisten to what they have to say
and then match that to what asolar guy can tell you and see
how it all fits together?
yeah and if it still doesn'tmake sense, give us a call.
We'll kind of guide you throughit.
Yeah, it's a good question,though I knew that those things
(38:12):
are out there.
Um, am I better off not goingsolar than going solar with a
lease?
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (38:19):
I don't know your situation.
You know, is your house under aforest of trees, so no, you
shouldn't get solar if you haveshading issues.
Speaker 2 (38:27):
Right.
If you're in a house or you'rein a situation where solar makes
sense, then the answer isyou're better off going solar
Right If you're in, if you're ina situation where you're not
paying high bills and your houseis terrible for solar, then you
probably shouldn't go solarRight.
Speaker 1 (38:40):
I've told people don't get solar because of your
situation.
And then I've told their nextdoor neighbor you should get
solar because of your situation.
It's going to depend.
Speaker 2 (38:51):
How many times have we said it's specific to you?
Twice, this is not a cookiecutter situation Solar.
It is very customized to youand how you live in your home.
Speaker 1 (39:03):
And that doesn't matter.
If it's a purchase, a lease,cash doesn't matter.
Go watch Solar 101.
It's you and your situation,yeah.
Speaker 2 (39:09):
All of that is covered in Solar 101.
Go watch it.
But still, it's a commonquestion how much does it cost?
No, this is not that okay.
Will homeowners insurance coverthe panels?
No, but now this is a trickyquestion too.
Speaker 1 (39:24):
Yeah, you have a warranty for the panels, the the
manufacturer covers the panelsI think where you're.
Speaker 2 (39:32):
Yeah, homeowners insurance that doesn't have
anything to do with that.
I mean, I'm thinking in abusiness sense, it's just
totally different and not replyto this conversation.
So no, the manufacturer coversyour panels.
The homeowners warranties thatit covers your home.
So if there's damage thathappens as a result of something
with the solar hail, orbaseball or something like that.
Oh, I mean, if that stuffhappens, I mean that's I don't
(39:53):
the, the solar manufacturerwon't cover that.
Speaker 1 (39:54):
They don't cover that , but again.
I don't know what the questionis asking specifically if it's
what type of damage ormalfunctions.
So if it's malfunctions or thesystem is not producing as it
should, that's not thehomeowner's insurance, no,
that's the manufacturer.
But if there's damage to thesystem because of you know,
weather or baseball or somethinglike that, then Then we know
the manufacturer won't becausethey don't cover acts of God,
(40:17):
right, and that's when you wouldlook at, or whoever is that.
Speaker 2 (40:20):
That's when you'd look at your homeowner's
insurance to see if they wouldhelp you, right?
You know something like that, Iguess.
Okay, I'm not a homeownerinsurance expert.
You, really, you really shoulddo in that situation is talk to
your homeowner's insurance andsee what they do or do, because
a lot of those are verydifferent as well.
So that's, these are tough.
Quite that's a tough question.
Um, let's see here.
(40:42):
Well, I've heard leasing a ahuge.
I've heard leasing is a huge.
No, is lease to own any better?
lease to own okay, I don't knowof any.
They don't know least yellingcompanies.
But and you?
Speaker 1 (40:57):
probably heard, leasing was bad because of a
company that came to you thatdidn't provide a lease option
exactly so that they came to youhey, this is what we sell.
And uh, everything we don't sellis bad, like no, and that's not
how it works.
Gosh, that is so common.
It is common.
So in the same thing withleasing companies, they do it
too.
They go hey, leasing is greatand everything we don't sell is
(41:17):
bad, like no.
Just because you don't sell itdoesn't mean it's bad.
At Harman we do leases andpurchases, so it doesn't really
matter because we know the prosand cons to each.
So leasing isn't bad.
It might be bad for you in yoursituation, but it might be
fantastic for someone else intheir situation, like Ralph.
Ralph leases his system becauseit was great for his situation.
Speaker 2 (41:35):
Yeah, you know it depends on you.
You don't go to a Mercedesdealer and start saying, hey, I
want to go buy a BMW.
They're going to tell you whywould you do that?
Bmw suck.
Speaker 1 (41:43):
Mercedes are the way to go.
Speaker 2 (41:44):
Right, right, exactly .
That's the exact situationwe're talking about here.
So again, you know the key,some of the key things.
For at least, do you have a taxwrite-off, it makes a lot of
sense to buy it and take thosecredits.
Sure, you don't have thatliability.
Maybe you don't really havemuch of an income.
You're an older person andyou're on a fixed income and you
want a lease a fixed lease,because that's all you can deal
(42:05):
with and you can't takeadvantage of the credit that can
make sense for you.
It's just again, like Ben justsaid, customizable Solar 101
will answer all these questions.
I'm very disappointed in youguys that didn't watch Solar 101
and ask these questions, so Ineed you to go back and watch
that and then I need you toreport back to me and that's all
(42:25):
the questions we have.
Oh, okay, that's a lot ofquestions, not like the 30
something we had that one time.
Speaker 1 (42:30):
It's good questions and we get them a lot, though we
get the same questions over andover, but that's okay so I hope
that helps.
Speaker 2 (42:34):
So we've been able to provide you kind of an update
on what's going on in Arizona,answer some of your questions.
I hope you got a benefit tosome of the information we
shared.
Ben, is there anything elsethat you can think of that you
want to share right this moment?
Speaker 1 (42:46):
Not that I can think of.
Speaker 2 (42:47):
I bet you there is, you just don't want to talk
about it.
But anyway, we're going to comeback and we've got, we're
trying to put something together, something very, very special,
um, for a podcast that we'venever done before, that we've
talked about and danced aroundthe topic, um.
But I think we're just aboutthere and we're and we might get
this together for you.
So stay tuned, keep a watch outfor the next Harmon Solar
(43:10):
podcast.
I think it's going to beshockingly interesting oh, play
on words Shockingly interesting.
Hey, thanks for joining us andwe'll talk to you again soon.
Thank you, bye, bye.
Welcome to another edition of the Harman Solar
Podcast.
I'm Rob Romano, VP of Sales andMarketing at Harman Solar.
With me is my partner, asalways, Ben Wolfschlager.
You guys know him as MrEverything and we did change his
title.
Underneath there you can see itsays Mr Everything because he
did complain about being calledMr Something.
Speaker 1 (00:41):
I didn't complain, I was just accepting it.
Well, I know in his personallife.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
It had some impact, so we went and changed it to mr
everything okay, all right youfeeling better now?
Speaker 1 (00:46):
yeah, I'm feeling better, mr.
Everything back at it again.
Let's do this, okay.
Season four of the podcastclick no.
Speaker 2 (00:53):
So today we're gonna.
We've been talking about doingthis and there's a lot of things
that are going on right nowwith elections and everything
else and, uh, some news aboutdifferent installers and other
things.
Um, so we would basicallythought we would do almost like
a current status in Arizona whenit comes to solar, kind of like
a State of the Union in a sense.
Yeah Right, so who better to dothat than me and you.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
Yeah, you should have changed your background a
little presidential seal.
I thought about it, that wouldhave been cool.
Speaker 2 (01:17):
That would have been cool.
The Arizona flag, yeah, yeah,no, thanks, okay, you know,
thanks, okay on that note, onthat note.
So that's what we're going todo today.
We're going to talk about, kindof what's going on in arizona.
We got some different thingsand different um things that are
contributing to the marketright now, and then at the end
we're going to go ahead and wehave some questions from
listeners and viewers and we'regoing to tackle some of those as
well yeah, I don't know if anyunder any other industries like
(01:40):
us we are constantly evolving
Speaker 1 (01:42):
every six months it's not something that you just oh,
this is how solar is and thisis how it will always be for the
20, 30, 40, 50 years.
Like I'm always learning, likeevery week, like, oh, guess what
?
Now this now.
This changed now this changed,so constantly adapting and as
homeowners, you need to knowwhat those changes are I mean,
we've been doing.
Speaker 2 (01:58):
I've been doing this for almost 12 years.
How long you've been doing this?
10 years, so in and 10 years, Ithink, things changed every six
or eight months.
There's something that changes,and they're not minor changes
either.
Right, so the core of solar isgoing to always be the same, but
then there's everything elsearound it that we constantly
have to change with and adopt to, and if we don't, then it's not
a good thing for us or ourbusiness.
So, yeah, so we bring thisknowledge to you.
(02:20):
We've been doing this a longtime.
You're welcome.
Yeah, we typically see thecycles of solar every year and
how they go as far as sales andeverything else, and this year
has been different.
Yeah, a little different, alittle different.
I think there's a lot offactors into that.
I think it's the economy, theelection and all these other
things, but We've had majorswings.
Speaker 1 (02:40):
Yeah, we've had.
Speaker 2 (02:40):
It's major Up and down, yeah, big time.
So we're going to kind of getinto what's causing that to
happen and what's going on inArizona with solar right now.
So let's talk about why Arizonais the place that people want
to come and sell solar, becausethere's a reason for that.
What's the reason, ben?
Speaker 1 (02:54):
Why do they come here ?
Everyone always thinks theobvious reason oh, there's sun
all the time.
Sure, yeah, all the time incalifornia, what new mexico?
And texas and louisiana, allthe southern states.
But you have to, you have torealize it's not just the sun
factor, because there's suneverywhere in hawaii, right,
yeah, I hope so.
How?
How is solar in hawaii, though?
Speaker 2 (03:16):
ralph bad yeah, see, very bad it's, it's not always
used to be the best.
Speaker 1 (03:21):
Now it's Exactly.
It's not always sunshine andrainbows pun intended, hawaii,
rainbow Warriors.
So Arizona is good because wehave kind of a good trifecta of
things, the sun obviously beingone, utility rates is favorable
for solar as well, and then justthe products that we have
available for us.
(03:42):
Yeah, all those combined makesArizona solar great, whereas you
have states like you know.
Let's take the Northeast, inMassachusetts, you know a lot of
people think like oh, you know,massachusetts is cloudy and
snowy, it's not good for solar.
Speaker 2 (03:58):
Wrong, it's a great place.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
It's actually a great place for solar because they
have other aspects thatinfluence.
You know their utility ratesand pricing and things like the
incentives.
Yes, that makes solarattractive there.
It's almost free there.
Yeah, it's because of theincentives.
It's crazy, it is crazy.
So, yeah, it's not necessarilythe state that you're in and how
much sun you get, it's all thefactors so you have to weigh
into right market factors andconditions apply.
(04:21):
Yeah, and I'm sure I knowthere's other states.
Um, I think north dakota isanother state where it's like
solar is not that great but it'sokay.
But again, you know, we peopleare thinking, oh, because they
don't have sun.
No, it's utility rates, it'swhat equipment they have.
Speaker 2 (04:35):
You know how are things handled, their incentives
, things like that oklahoma,which used to be okay for solar
then it got really good nowbecause the rates are going
through the roof by theutilities out there.
Yeah, they've finally decidedthat they want people to pay
more.
And, of course, oklahoma is agas oil state, right.
So you have the issues there ofpeople's mindset as, hey, we
like gas and oil, we don't likerenewables.
You're the devil, right.
(04:56):
So I mean you have there'schallenges there, but it's
getting more and more popularbecause of what they're doing
with the rates there.
So there's all these conditionsthat are always going to affect
every industry or every marketfor this industry.
So Arizona, like you just said,we use a ton of power because
it's God awful hot here, youknow, six, seven months a year.
We don't really have a fall.
We get a tiny winter and a tinyspring, and then it's hot again
(05:18):
.
Speaker 1 (05:18):
Yeah, our seasons are hot and not as hot, yeah.
Speaker 2 (05:27):
So our usage is through the roof.
Our rates are historically havebeen lower than most of the
country until the last few yearswhere they've really gone up,
which as a solar company, you'relike okay.
Well, that just makes ourproduct more viable for people
as the rates continue to go up.
So when the utilities continueto raise rates, you need to look
at ways to offset that, andthat's what solar is for.
So solar has been more, it'smore and more.
It's more beneficial for peopleas the rates continue to go up
in this state and they willcontinue to go up, as you hear.
Speaker 1 (05:49):
And who knows, you know, 50, 60 years from now,
arizona might not be a goodstate for solar, it's true,
because of incentives or otherfactors.
It might be.
It might be a clear winner.
I mean, there's a lot ofreasons.
It might turn into like a Hawaii, a hawaii situation where it
was good at one point but thennow it's not so great, right.
So you know arizona, we don'tknow, but you know for right now
and for the you know smallfuture ahead, I guess next few
(06:12):
years, it is a good spot forsolar point of reference for
hawaii.
Speaker 2 (06:14):
It was great until they basically overloaded the
grid.
Their grids completelyoverloaded and you can't put
solar on it yeah you have tohave a battery to unload your
your power, because the gridcan't take it.
So, yeah, Hawaii's a mess.
I remember five, six years ago,seven years ago, everybody used
to go out to Hawaii and sellsolar.
It was fantastic then, yeah, itwas crazy.
But now it's like people, it'slike stay away.
And California is becoming thesame thing now because of the
(06:36):
rules that they've changed whereit's not as great as it used to
be.
So again to Ben's point thisstuff changes all the time.
Arizona's been prettyconsistent for the last 12 years
.
For the most part this is thefirst time we've really seen,
I'd say in the last four yearsthe rates have really started to
climb.
So, that's what happens, though.
Right as time goes on,everything goes more expensive,
so that's why people come toArizona, right?
(06:57):
They know this is a solidmarket where you can come and
sell solar.
There's a lot of companies thatcome here.
Speaker 1 (07:02):
It's easy, right, just come here and sell solar.
It's so easy.
We've talked about this in thepodcast.
Speaker 2 (07:07):
I hate how companies come out here and just try to
sell solar like the placethey're from yeah, because we're
not the place they're from,right and then when you talk to
the people that are coming fromthe different states, they're
not giving you the accurateinformation because they don't
take how we do in Texas.
Speaker 1 (07:21):
Yeah, exactly, texas isn't Arizona, exactly.
Speaker 2 (07:23):
So you gotta be always careful of who you're
buying something from, um, andthen here's a big phenomenon.
So we all I think we've allfelt the impacts of the economy
the last four years I mean, thisisn't a political statement,
but it's a reality right thelast four years since the
pandemic inflation's high.
Inflation has gone up, we knowit Right and it impacts
everything Our interest rates.
Just to give you an example,our interest rates four or five
(07:45):
years ago were 0.49 on some ofthe loans.
Half a percent.
Right, think about that.
And now, now you know a loan isat 8%, you know 9%.
Yeah, you know cause, and weall talk about loans have fees
behind them, right, those feeshave ballooned as well.
Sure, so if you want to try toget down to like a 4% loan, the
(08:11):
balloon fees behind it justdon't make it work.
So the economy has definitelyimpacted this industry
nationwide for the last five,four years, four and a half
years.
I'm going to start at thepandemic and go forward right.
It's definitely impacted it andthere have been some monsters in
the industry, huge installersthat you know.
They're like 28, 29 States,they do a lot of business.
They're gone.
I mean, they were billiondollar companies two, three
(08:32):
years ago that don't existanymore.
That's crazy to think about,Right, I mean.
So think about that.
There's a lot of installers inArizona that we've known for
years and they don't.
They're not here anymore, Nope.
We've known for years and theydon't.
They're not here anymore, Nope.
So what's the impact of thatthere?
There is an impact to that.
Speaker 1 (08:51):
And why is Harmon still here?
Yeah, why is Harmon?
We pay our bills.
I guess we keep the lights on.
Speaker 2 (08:56):
Well, we'll get to that in a second.
So first of all, those thoseinstallers going away, we know
have impacted some of youbecause some of you have gone
solar in this state through someof those companies and they're
longer here.
So what does that mean?
Right?
What does that?
How does that?
How does that hurt them?
Speaker 1 (09:08):
So installers that have packed up and left.
So what you have to realize iswell, okay.
Well, what did I get from themspecifically?
Right?
What did I buy?
What's the warranty that I havewith them?
Do I have a workmanshipwarranty or roof warranty,
things that?
So I got that from them.
Now they're no longer here.
Is my warranty still valid?
Nope, nope, their workmanshipwarranty isn't.
(09:30):
But, like the equipment that youhave, the equipment you know if
it's a manufacturer you knowrec panels or hondwa panels or
you know whatever type of panelsthat's a manufacturer um right,
um warranty.
Same thing with your inverter.
You have n phase or sma ortesla or whatever.
Those companies are still inbusiness so you still have the
warranties with them, but theinstaller is no longer there, so
(09:52):
their workmanship warranty isgoing to be separate from your
manufacturer warranty.
Speaker 2 (09:55):
So it's so important.
We say there's all that, we'vebeen saying this since day one
know who's installing your solar.
Yes, yes, you, yes.
You have to know that it's soimportant because these things
can happen and those people, noware you in a bad place.
Well, you're not in a greatplace.
You still have solar, I'd say,which is good.
It's still producing, hopefully.
But when it stops producing,who do you call and you're
(10:17):
having issues at?
Who do you call Ghostbuster?
Who do you call you?
Who do you call?
You call Harmon solar, right?
Um, because thankfully we havea very big service department
and we've we've taken on so much, so many customers like this um
in the last six months becausetheir installers are gone.
Speaker 1 (10:32):
Yeah, I, I always relate it and I've, I know, I've
said it several times to yourcheck engine light or your car
you know, just cars in generalauto store.
It's you know small little mompop shop that just came up, and
joe's auto store, joe's autostore.
Yeah, I've seen that place visitthem at joe's auto storecom.
(10:52):
No, and you buy a car from them.
Let's say you buy a fordexplorer, okay, and a couple
years down the road joe's autoshop packs up and they're no
longer in business joe's gone.
Does that mean that yourwarranty for your ford explorer
is gone?
no you know, your check enginelight comes on or something that
happens to your car, you cantake that to any other dealer.
You can take it to any otherservice provider and get it
(11:15):
fixed.
Because their car is a ford, ithas that manufacturer warranty.
Other service providers canhelp fix that car.
You know, just because yourdealership is gone doesn't mean
your warranty is gone.
So same thing with solar.
If the company that youpurchased it from is no longer
in business, yes, theirwarranties for their labor is no
longer going to be valid, butyour manufacturer warranties are
(11:37):
still there.
So you could take your solarsystem not literally, by the way
to any other service providerand get it serviced.
Unscrew it from your roof, packit up.
I've got my solar system here.
It's not working.
Don't know why I'm twitching,cause it's in your hands.
Speaker 2 (11:53):
So anyway, yeah, that's that's the reality of
what that means to the industry.
So those companies that havegone away, I mean you just again
reach out to us, we'll help you, we can us, we'll help you, we
can help you run the warranty uhjobs through the, through the
manufacturers, um, if they coverlabor on the warranty jobs and
you're in great shape.
If not, then we would have tokick in and, you know, charge
you for warranty.
Obviously we can't give youtheir workmanship or their stuff
.
You're not gonna.
That just goes away.
(12:13):
Your workmanship warranty isgone.
Speaker 1 (12:15):
Right, your roof warranty is gone right.
We can't warrant their othertheir workmanship warranty
because what if they did a badjob?
Speaker 2 (12:20):
exactly.
Speaker 1 (12:21):
We can't cover that, and they probably did.
They probably did.
That's why they're not here.
Speaker 2 (12:25):
So I mean that's been a big impact in this state.
In the last six months We'veseen a couple or more installers
go down.
So if you're in that situation,never fear Harmon's here.
Speaker 1 (12:38):
Oh my gosh, I did say that.
Oh, there he is, but it is true, we are here and we can help
you through it.
Speaker 2 (12:41):
Just give our service department a call if you're
having an issue, we'll help you.
Yeah, so at least you know yougot you got someone here that
can partner with you, um, butthat is the reality of what's
happening in this industry.
As they disappear.
Harman's not disappearing andhere's the reason why.
So we've been around since 75,so we've been here a long time.
We've seen a lot of ebbs andflows, a lot, and ebb is, yeah,
(13:03):
we've seen a lot.
But the difference is Harmondoesn't rely solely on
residential solar.
That's not our only business.
It's part of our business andit's not even the biggest part
of our business.
It's an important part of ourbusiness and it's a good size
part.
But we are big in other areas.
We do a lot of commercial solar.
We do commercial electrical.
You see a hotel going up.
We're doing the wiring a lot oftimes in those hotels.
(13:24):
You see these mass um buildingsgoing up commercially and stuff
.
We're doing a lot of the solarparking lots and the bill.
We do all that kind of stuffplus a couple other things.
Like I said, we have a hugeservice department.
We're very diversified as acompany with ev network.
Our ev network is big, yeah, sowe're not sitting around just
relying on one part of theindustry to either make or break
(13:44):
us.
That's just not smart business.
Speaker 1 (13:46):
Yeah, which is scary because if that residential
section does go down, then whatIf you have a company that
relies 100% on one revenuestream and that goes down?
Well then that's why you packup and leave.
Yep got to diversify yourbusiness and during this year.
Speaker 2 (14:02):
You we've seen a lot of the residential solar market
at the beginning of the yeartook a huge hit in Arizona and
nationally.
Because of the economy, becauseof the interest rates, because
of the dealer fee, I meaneverything.
It took a huge hit.
People didn't have money tospend.
The savings spread wasn't whatit used to be when you get a
proposal, so people were lessapt to want to go solar because
(14:23):
of that.
Speaker 1 (14:25):
But what happened with the commercial industry
during that time?
It blew up exactly.
It was just the opposite itquadrupled in size.
Speaker 2 (14:30):
Yeah, it was crazy, right.
And then our electricalbusiness again blew up.
Our service business was alwaysjust steady and good.
So did we feel the effect of it?
Yeah, a little bit we felt it,but not to the point of some of
these companies that said wecan't do this anymore.
We got to go right.
So that's why it's importantalways know who your installer
is, do some research on them,see what they're in business to
do.
(14:50):
Is it?
Are they just a residentialsolar company?
Speaker 1 (14:53):
that's a good question that's a little scary
if you're.
You know you're getting solarfor your home and you're sitting
at the table with the salesconsultant.
Obviously you're going to askthem questions about your home
and the proposal and all thatstuff.
Ask them about their company asa whole too.
What other revenue streams doyou guys have If they're like
none red flag.
Speaker 2 (15:11):
That's a red flag red flag.
I'm not going to say it, but Ialways think of the movie Tommy.
And when he talks about puttingthe warranty on the box, you
know, say the line.
I know I'm not going to say it.
We have a lot of companies outhere that tell you oh, I'm going
to give you this 40 yearwarranty, we're going to give
you this 35 billion year roofwarranty.
You know we'll do.
And I always laugh at that.
I'm like the warranty is onlyas good as the paper it's on
(15:33):
right.
I mean, it's garbage.
Look at the company.
How long have they been around?
What do they do?
Are they stable?
Because if they're not, theycan tell you whatever they want
to tell you.
And then what happened thisyear?
They're gone, yep.
Speaker 1 (15:45):
Now, what Got you to buy it?
Yep.
Speaker 2 (15:49):
Thanks for signing on the line.
This is a long to 30 yearcommit.
You got to look at it that way.
So know who you're gettinginstalled from.
Ask the right questions.
Yeah, ask the right questions.
So these are all the impactsthat are happening in the
industry for those people thatdidn't ask the right questions.
Right now they're feeling it sonot a good thing.
All right.
So solar companies as well.
So you have your installers,like us, and then you have your
(16:10):
companies out there We've talkedabout this on one of our
podcasts that are just solarsales companies.
Right Now.
We are a hybrid.
We do both.
So we have an internal salesteam.
We have an install, you know,installation crew.
We do all that stuff.
We also have partners that donothing but just sell solar.
They're.
We call them dealers, whateveryou want to call them.
They're independent salescompanies.
They're not bad, but I'm justsaying you should do your
(16:33):
research into them as well.
Who are they working with?
Who's the installer they'reworking with?
Speaker 1 (16:38):
Who are they?
Speaker 2 (16:39):
Where are they from?
Are they local?
Are they not local?
Do they have a local office?
If they don't, that would scareme a little bit.
Speaker 1 (16:45):
They come to us, you know, or you know companies like
us, because they have a goodreputation, they have a good
install record, they have, youknow, things like that.
So when you are sitting at thetable with that sales consultant
and like, hey, this is mycompany, this is who we sell for
, ask them who's going to beinstalling?
Yes, okay, now ask those samequestions about the install
(17:06):
company.
So if Harman's going to be yourinstall company, if some other
company sold you the system,okay, well, what's Harman's
revenue streams and things likethat.
How long has Harman been inbusiness?
Because that's ultimately who'sgoing to be installing my
system and I need to know aboutthem.
Speaker 2 (17:18):
Yeah, it's important we partner with some good
dealers.
We vet the dealers the bestthat we can Doesn't mean they're
perfect, but we do vet them thebest that we can.
There are certain things welook for, certain questions that
we ask, so we try to work withsome of the best.
Does it always work out?
Not always, but it works outmost of the time.
So you need to be, you need towatch these companies.
So right now we're in November,we're post-election and it's
(17:40):
door knocking season in Arizona.
This is when it's nice and cool.
It's going to be cool probablythrough about April, middle of
May, where it's not unbearable.
So it's door knocking season.
Your doors are going to startgetting knocked and I know
you've been here for any amountof years and I know you've been
here for any amount of years.
Speaker 1 (17:54):
This has been going on for a while.
I used to go out on Halloweendoor knock.
Speaker 2 (17:57):
Did you?
Speaker 1 (17:58):
Yeah, they're going to answer.
Yeah, we're going to.
We're going to have to meetwith Ben about that.
Speaker 2 (18:01):
Um, I'm just kidding I didn't, but yeah, so they're
going to answer trick or treat.
Speaker 1 (18:05):
Why am I solar?
That was my pitch to you.
It's the only kind of half Goodideas.
No, I wouldn't say that.
Speaker 2 (18:15):
But it's door-knocking season, so your
door's going to start gettingknocked.
You need to start.
You know when that happens.
Just make sure, if you get intoa conversation, ask the
questions we're telling you toask, because some companies and
not all of them, but there aresome companies out there that
will come in here and they'llfly in 20 guys and they'll go
and they'll sell for as high asthey can sell and then they get
out.
Speaker 1 (18:35):
They're called blitzes.
Speaker 2 (18:36):
Yeah, they do solar blitzes, so beware of solar
blitzes.
They're very popular in Arizona.
Um, they're like a bunch ofroaches that they.
They go out there and they goall over the neighborhoods and
they do everything that they canand then they leave.
Speaker 1 (18:46):
You see a big van pull up and 20 guys hop out.
You know you know what's goingto happen.
Speaker 2 (18:50):
See if the guys that you're working for are local I
think it's important and whothey're partnered with.
That's also important.
So you have two things toreally look at Very, very
important.
But watch out for that, becausethat's going to be happening
right now.
Just know who you're buyingfrom and know who's installing.
Those are the two.
If you haven't learned anythingat all on this podcast who are
you buying from?
Who's doing the installation?
Speaker 1 (19:11):
Yeah, Really, yeah, really look into those two
things?
Speaker 2 (19:20):
yeah, because a lot of people just look at the price
, like, oh, it's a good price.
Ah, yes, it is a good price,but yeah, you might have to pay
for it in the end.
What do they say?
The the pain of the low price.
I can't remember what.
There's a whole saying about it, but anyway, I'm not that's
your ear old, this old sayingwords of wisdom anyway.
Um, the other thing I reallykind of wanted to focus on is
the election does have an impact.
It's had an impact on thismarket.
We talked about the economy andwhat it's done to the industry
(19:41):
over the last couple of years.
Economy is key in this business.
I mean we need interest ratesto be down and we need fees to
be down in order to create thatgood spread for you to make good
money on your solar investment.
That spread was here.
You know it's done this.
It's starting to do this again.
So it's starting to be a reallygood time to start looking into
(20:01):
solar again and I think, withthe results of the election,
you're going to see if theeconomy changes the way people
think it will, the way theexperts think it will.
These next few years,especially for solar, could be
really good.
So watch the economy and how itmoves it really good, yeah.
So watch the economy and how itmoves.
It definitely impacts what youcan make and obviously it
impacts what you can spend,because we've seen it the day
(20:22):
after the election, our businesspicked up 200%, like that,
because now people are like theyfeel there are people and on
that whatever side feel that.
Hey, I think I'm going to havemoney going forward.
I feel good about the resultsand I want to spend.
Or some people probably justsaid I'm glad the dang
election's over.
I don't want to hear that noiseanymore.
Speaker 1 (20:37):
I just want to get back to life back to life.
Speaker 2 (20:41):
Whatever.
It doesn't matter what sideyou're on.
It's just a point of a countryright now has got a good vibe
and people are starting to spendmoney again, and we're seeing
it.
We had Mike Wiley here for thereal estate guy not too long ago
and he was saying the samething he houses that started
having showings and stuff thatweren't showing, yeah, so that's
all a great vibe going on, sotake advantage of the good vibe.
Speaker 1 (20:58):
I would say there you go, another Harmon Solar
tagline.
Speaker 2 (21:01):
You know.
And then another thing to thinkabout is the ITC, you know.
Speaker 1 (21:06):
That's big.
Speaker 2 (21:06):
You know what changes will happen with the ITC
because of the election.
What's the impact on the ITC?
That's a question we're hearinga lot too.
Itc that's a question we'rehearing a lot too.
Speaker 1 (21:15):
The answer is I don't know.
Yeah, the truth is we don'tknow a lot.
There's a lot of speculationsof where it's going to go and
how it's going to, you know,phase out, or if it'll phase out
things like that.
The truth is no one knows.
Speaker 2 (21:25):
Nobody does and what they look at is when a
Republican is in control.
Typically they're gas and oilfocused and they don't really
like renewables a whole lot, butthey compromise sometimes Right
.
When Trump was in office in2016,.
It wasn't bad for solar, it wasgood for solar.
Yeah, you figure, when theDemocrats get in office, they're
very pro-renewable, so thingsget better as far as the
(21:46):
renewable industry.
So, yes, the policy got alittle better, the ITC got
extended and all that, but theeconomy did bad, so it actually
hurt the business.
So it was, you know,double-edged sword in a sense.
But we'll watch that and we'llalmost kind of see where that
goes.
I'm pretty optimistic about umagain going forward.
Speaker 1 (22:01):
We've been around since the seventies.
I think we've seen majorchanges.
Speaker 2 (22:05):
Yeah, it's called the solar coaster, right For a
reason.
Speaker 1 (22:07):
Yeah, we, we've been there, we've done that.
Whatever you know the economyor you know politics throws at
us, I think we'll be okay.
Speaker 2 (22:13):
Yeah, so the state of Arizona is hey, things are good
right now.
They're getting better.
Um, we're getting into theheavy season for for people that
are going to come in here andsell solar.
So you need to arm yourself andbe careful.
That's why we give you thesepodcasts.
These podcasts are yourammunition right.
Take these podcasts, listen tothem, understand them.
So when someone knocks on yourdoor, if you're interested in
solar, you can ask the rightquestions.
(22:34):
You can do the right things toprotect yourself and your family
.
If you want to go solar, invitethem in and then have them
watch the podcast.
Speaker 1 (22:41):
Come on, come on in, sit down.
Speaker 2 (22:42):
I'm going to show you something you have no idea the
amount of people that I've heardfrom in the last year We've
been doing this for over a yearnow.
It's been over a year thatwe've been doing podcasts and
the amount of people thatreference this podcast in those
sit downs.
I've heard about it from.
I'm not.
I'm not crying, you're crying.
Speaker 1 (23:01):
No.
Speaker 2 (23:02):
I've heard it from companies that are out there
selling.
I've heard it from people thathave bought solar.
I've heard it from ourcustomers that come to us
because of the podcast.
I think mission accomplished.
We set out to do something.
We set out to arm people.
Where's the applause button?
Yeah, we need applause rightnow, but we did.
We had our mission.
We set out to arm people withknowledge so that they can
protect themselves, and I thinkwe've done it and we're hearing
(23:24):
that feedback now more than ever.
Speaker 1 (23:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (23:26):
It took about a year, I think, really for it to
really kick in.
Sounds about right and it'sgood, so I'm glad we were able
to do that.
Speaker 1 (23:33):
so you know yeah, I'm not gonna.
I'm not gonna take all thecredit.
Ralph deserves some of it youdo, I do at least 20 of the
credit ralph.
Even hannah deserves some of it.
Speaker 2 (23:43):
Maybe let's not get crazy and we'll keep doing this
and we'll keep bringing you newthings.
Obviously, we've slowed down alittle bit because we've hit so
many things, yeah, but we reallythought it'd be important at
least give you a hey.
This is what's going on inArizona right now.
This is where we stand, um, andwe're looking to a really
bright future, and so I thinkthe next four years are going to
be phenomenal.
I'm looking forward to it.
Yeah, um, so that's the goodnews.
(24:04):
Now we also have do youanything else you want to hit on
that?
Nope, and Ben's gone.
So we do have some questionsfrom viewers and listeners, so
we're going to hit some of thosetoo.
Oh, q and A session.
We do have a Q and A session.
Let's do it.
So let's do a Q and A session,and it's funny, a lot of them
apply to what we're saying.
So here's the first one.
Speaker 1 (24:22):
I did not prep for this, by the way.
Speaker 2 (24:24):
Yeah, no, I just got these yeah what qualifies me,
disqualifies me, etc.
Speaker 1 (24:38):
There's a whole lot in that question, yeah.
So what incentives?
Are there it's still the sameas it was last month of the.
You know they still have yourfederal tax credit and state tax
credit.
That hasn't changed right.
Speaker 2 (24:44):
So and that means nothing, nothing new, but let me
say this.
So if you're sitting theregoing, it's november today.
Today it's mid-november, rightnow, um, I can buy this and get
it installed and I can use thetax credit by the end of the
year.
No, good luck, you're not goingto get it.
Speaker 1 (25:00):
It's not going to happen.
Speaker 2 (25:01):
The way this industry works with all the companies
and all the jurisdictions thatwe rely on to get things done.
If you buy solar right now,you're not going to have it
installed and ready to go by theend of the year.
Speaker 1 (25:11):
It's just not going to happen.
I've told people that manytimes.
You know, come to our warehouse, we have the crews, we have all
the equipment we have.
You know, we have things.
We can install your stufftomorrow if we wanted to, but
it's not up to us, right, wehave there's protocol, there's
other jurisdictions, there'sother things that we have to do
in order to get it installed.
(25:33):
There're at their mercy, yep.
Speaker 2 (25:34):
So incentives haven't changed.
They're what they were.
What qualifies you ordisqualifies you?
Well, we've talked about thattoo.
It could be your credit.
It could be your moneysituation, your home, your house
, your usage, your orientation.
Go back and watch the podcast.
Speaker 1 (25:50):
Watch Solar 101.
Yeah, that'll qualify you.
Speaker 2 (26:02):
That's what qualifies you and disqualifies you.
Speaker 1 (26:03):
Nothing's changed there.
Okay.
Next question can my hoaprohibit me from going solar?
Yes and no.
99.99% of the time the answeris going to be no, they can't.
They can't do anything about it.
But there are some times where,if it's in like a historical, um
, historical district, wherethey can say you know, you, you
can't have it on, you knowfacing here, or you can't have
it at all.
But again, those are smalloutliers in certain communities,
you know like what, downtownPhoenix, things like that.
(26:23):
But in majority of the time theHOA cannot say you know you
can't have your solar system,you know on your roof they can.
It's kind of a weird, weirdrule.
They can say things like likewe don't want your panels here,
(26:49):
but according to you know thefederal government, basically,
you know they can't make adecision, decision based off of
if it'll impact your production.
So as long as it doesn't impactproduction, they can make a
decision on it.
Which is weird, because if theHOA says we don't want your
modules here, we want it overhere, well, that's going to
impact production Moving it.
Speaker 2 (27:03):
AZ Senate Bill 1254.
Yeah, that's what I was goingto reference.
Go look it up.
It basically protects thestipulated.
This is from July 2007.
It stipulates that a homeownerassociation may not prohibit the
installation or use of solarenergy devices.
There you go.
So they cannot tell you no.
Legally Right, they could askyou to move panels, like Ben
just said, or set it updifferently, as long as it
(27:25):
doesn't create a cost for youover and above what you're
paying.
Right, they can do that If itcreates an over and above cost
to you no, yep.
According to the bill.
And again the other thing aboutthat.
There, there, I can think ofone hoa in the valley that says,
nope, you're not installingsolar should we put their name
on them?
no, and it becomes.
(27:48):
It comes down to do you want tohave that fight?
Yeah with that hoa, you'll win,but you may lose other things.
Speaker 1 (27:57):
If you know what I mean.
Sure, yeah, yeah.
So you know.
The the second, a blade ofgrass or a weed comes on your
lawn.
You're going to get that fine.
Speaker 2 (28:03):
And that HOA is an affluent area.
Hoa, so that's the best.
I'll say Okay.
So you have to decide if it'sworth it to you or not.
At that point Can we put theirphone number at least no, okay,
that's number, at least no, okay, that's all I'm gonna say.
I'm not saying where can yougive us a hint, not gonna say
that it's close to a hill, allright, anyway, so that I hope
that answers that question okay,is it?
true that solar panels do notdirectly power your home, but
(28:25):
power the grid instead, andthat's where the buyback comes
from the utility when youproduce more than you use.
Speaker 1 (28:33):
I'm figuring that again.
Well, I kind of understand.
Speaker 2 (28:35):
Okay, go ahead.
Speaker 1 (28:38):
So your system is on your roof.
It's going to produce power.
That power has to go somewhere.
It's going to go to your housefirst, and then anything extra
goes to the grid.
Yeah Done, that's the simplestway to put it.
Speaker 2 (28:50):
Is it true that solar panels do not directly power
your home?
No, that's not true.
Speaker 1 (28:53):
It goes to your home.
Speaker 2 (28:54):
They go to your home and then your home tells the, so
that your home tells theelectricity where to go, right,
whether it tells it to go intothe house because you need it.
Right, going to my batterybecause my battery needs to be
picked up, or I don't need anyof this, send it back to the
grid, exactly so you make thedecision and there's there's
times you know during house butyou still need extra, so you're
(29:14):
pulling from the grid.
Speaker 1 (29:15):
So at that moment in time during the day you could be
getting power from both.
Speaker 2 (29:19):
Yeah the solar system and the grid?
Speaker 1 (29:21):
yeah, especially in summer yeah, but now you know my
ac is not running, my heater'snot running, nothing's on,
nothing's running really in myhouse.
I'm not not even there, so youknow I'm not pulling a lot of
electricity.
So solar system in that casewould be pushing all that power
to the grid, basically becausethere's nothing running at my
house.
Speaker 2 (29:38):
Yeah, and that's where the buyback does come from
.
Yeah, so when you don't needthe power and you send it back,
that's the buyback.
So yeah, it's a good questionactually.
Next, is it illegal to be offgrid in Phoenix, arizona or any
surrounding areas?
Speaker 1 (29:50):
It's not illegal.
Not illegal, it's just, it's adecision, it's the utility's
decision.
Speaker 2 (29:54):
if they allow it, Most people will tell you that
they don't allow it.
I know we used to say that foryears, but we've talked to a few
of the utilities and they'llsay they allow it.
But then they give you a listof things that you have to do to
qualify the amount of moneythat you'll spend just to do the
things that they want you to do.
You might as well just buyanother house.
Speaker 1 (30:10):
Yeah, it's ridiculous .
Speaker 2 (30:11):
It's pretty crazy.
So it's definitely notDefinitely not worth going off
grid in Arizona.
Now, if you're in the outsideareas where there's really no
grid, well then of course you'reoff grid, right, so that's what
you do.
Speaker 1 (30:21):
That's what I tell people.
If you have your house andyou've already started off the
grid, well then you're off thegrid.
Speaker 2 (30:26):
You're off the grid.
Speaker 1 (30:31):
If you have your house and you're in a
metropolitan area like theneighborhood behind Ralph right
now, you are on the grid.
So you've already onestablished grid right now.
Yeah, you can go off.
You can go If you've got thatkind of money go for it?
Speaker 2 (30:42):
I don't, that would be insane.
So anyway, I hope that answersthat question, because that's
that's actually a commonquestion.
We get Um and no, it's notillegal.
Speaker 1 (30:50):
No.
Yeah, a lot of people say heybatteries, because I don't want
to build from my utility company, I want to be completely off
the grid.
Well, guess what?
You're still going to beconnected to that grid with just
your solar system and yourbattery.
Speaker 2 (31:02):
Yeah, I haven't.
You're connected.
I have an off-grid 2k system inmy backyard that powers a mini
split and things in my garage.
That's it.
That's off-grid.
That's off-grid, but it doesn'tpower my house, right?
So if it were to power my house, I'd have to play by the rules
and connect it and do.
There'd be a bunch of stuff.
That's not what it is more of avanity project, yeah, but yeah
(31:24):
it's.
If you live in the metro area,you can do it.
Just you're gonna pay for it,not worth it.
Um, I could just do.
I can just install dual panewindows and add more insulation
in the attic, right?
It'd be the same savings butless maintenance.
Speaker 1 (31:39):
Interesting.
Speaker 2 (31:41):
That's a good question.
Speaker 1 (31:42):
I say go ahead, Go for it.
Speaker 2 (31:44):
Go for it.
There's a misnomer in theindustry, so a lot of people are
into selling the windows andall that stuff and that's great,
whatever you can do to makeyour house more efficient,
depending on the age of yourhouse.
Sure, I know that there'speople in the industry that have
said, oh yeah, if I do that Iget a 30%.
You know efficiency savings andthis, and that I've looked into
(32:06):
that.
That's not true at all.
It's not even close.
It's more like 10% maybe,depending on what you do, and I
don't know if numbers you lookedat.
Yeah, but, I've seen 10%.
Speaker 1 (32:17):
I haven't looked at the numbers, but I do tell
people, do all those energysaving tips.
You know Right, double pane,windows, insulation, all that
stuff.
It's just going to help reduceyour bill, yeah, but it's not
going to be as dramatic as whatsolar can do no way.
(32:41):
Because let's say, just don'tknow, three thousand dollars a
year.
Again, we look at itholistically a year.
So you're paying three thousanddollars a year for power and
then you get solar and you haveokay, you have some bills in,
you know, january, maybe earlyfebruary, but then march, april
and may you're in the negatives.
Um, I don't think you can get anegative bill when you have
double pane windows andinsulation.
So that's probably not going tohappen because during those
months you're pushing power tothe grid and they're buying it
(33:02):
from you.
So that's how you get thatnegative bill.
And then summer months, youknow, you might have, you know,
a couple hundred dollars hereand there and then it goes back
down to zero or negatives andaround this time, so
holistically, you have, you know, probably about a five, six
hundred dollar total billannually.
So you went from three thousanddollars to six hundred dollars.
Speaker 2 (33:19):
Yeah, in aps because of solar it's kind of like
putting a turbo on your carelaborate, go ahead.
I mean I get it, but for thepeople I mean it's kind of like
you have a high performing carand you want to make it go a
little faster.
You put something like a turbo,whatever else you can put on a
car to make it a little bit morefaster right, give it a little
bit more horsepower, or puttingone of those chips in your car
(33:39):
to make it a little quickerright, you can, you can help.
Yeah, solar, solar, solar isgoing to be the monster, solar
is the engine you can help thatengine with, by you know, maybe
doing windows or doing moreinsulation.
It all helps, like what you'resaying.
So, yeah, go ahead and do allof it.
We have a lot of solar partnersthat sell you solar.
They'll also put windows on it,they'll do doors, um, they'll
(34:01):
do insulation and all thesedifferent things.
So, yeah, it all works together.
It all works together.
Yeah, so, but they're partnerssolar is the engine, so solar is
the engine.
Everything else is the thingson the engine, around it and
stuff that help it go betteryeah, so see, that was good
analogy.
That was a good analogy, youjust gotta I wasn't sure where I
was going to specify the caryeah, first you know it's like
putting a turbo on a.
Speaker 1 (34:19):
Well, it's a 2000.
Speaker 2 (34:21):
No, it's a 2007 yugo?
Okay, all right.
Um, and we kind of talked aboutthis already, will the solar
industry be affected by theelection results, pro or con?
So we've, we'll see.
Yeah, we don't.
Speaker 1 (34:33):
We don't know we think so yeah, again it's, it's
not it's not, it's the economy,it's the.
Speaker 2 (34:38):
if the economy gets better, obviously that affects
everything.
Speaker 1 (34:41):
We've been through a lot of presidents so far at
Harmon.
We've seen a lot of financialcrises so far at Harmon and here
we are.
We're still there.
We had the housing crisis.
We're still here.
We had the COVID crash.
We're still here.
We had, you know we've hadeverything.
Speaker 2 (34:56):
We're still here, yeah.
So yeah, it's a wait and see,and the answer is we'll wait and
see.
We think it's going to bepositive.
I think it's going to bepositive, but that's my personal
opinion, so it's not a harmanopinion, it's my opinion ralph's
never wrong, so it's very rare.
You can ask my wife.
You know she says I am.
I'll tell her she's wrong.
Um, next question, please, doesthe does the solar company
(35:18):
receive the tax creditsavailable if the homeowner
leases the system?
And the homeowner does not?
Not the solar company, thatwould be us.
We're the installer.
If you get a lease, the leasecompany takes that credit and
they give you a better price forthe system as a result of
taking that credit.
Right, that's the point of alease.
Speaker 1 (35:36):
Yeah, your price should a result of taking that
credit.
Right, that's the point of alease.
Yeah, your price should beincluding of that tax credit.
Speaker 2 (35:41):
Right, they own the system.
They take the tax credits anddepreciation on that system.
They give you better pricingfor the power it produces.
Speaker 1 (35:48):
Yeah, it's a blanket statement.
Whoever owns the system gets atax credit Right.
So whether you purchase it oryou lease it, whoever owns it
gets a tax credit Right.
When you purchase it, you ownit, so you get the tax credit.
When you lease it, you don'town it Right, but somebody else
does Right.
So whoever owns it gets a taxcredit.
You buy the power, yeah.
Speaker 2 (36:06):
It's not your system.
The one on my roof is a lease.
It's not my system, but I buythe power and I buy.
If you're somebody that doesn'thave a tax liability and
doesn't pay the government everyyear, lease makes a lot of
sense.
It depends on you and yoursituation.
Talk to your tax accountant.
This is why you have that guyto tell you how this works.
But yes, that's a good question.
(36:26):
So is a home energy assessmentworth it with the utility
provider?
And can they tell me stuff?
A solar salesman can't, so Iknow that some utilities
actually do those assessments.
Is it worth it?
I don't know how much theycharge?
Speaker 1 (36:40):
I don't either.
I would have to know how muchthey charge to know if it's
worth it.
So that should probably tellyou the answer, because have I
ever done?
Speaker 2 (36:45):
one.
Speaker 1 (36:45):
No, no, because I mean, I'm in the industry, so I
know what to look for my ownhome.
You know, if I wanted my ownenergy assessment, I could just
do it myself free.
Speaker 2 (36:54):
yeah, I think third-party ones aren't.
Third-party ones are like $100.
Yeah, but I think the utilitywill do something like that for
free, because they come and theylook at light bulbs and they
look at all these differentthings.
Speaker 1 (37:04):
Well then, if it's free, the answer is always yes,
it's worth it.
Speaker 2 (37:06):
Yeah, I mean if it's not going to cost you anything,
go ahead, do it.
Listen, depends.
Yeah, I mean a solar salesmanshould know solar like the back
of their hand and understandwhat it can do for you.
They should understand thethings around it that contribute
to your energy as well.
It just depends on the salesguy.
Speaker 1 (37:26):
It depends on the sales guy.
It depends on the person you'retalking to with the utility,
because I've talked to people um, you know solar sales people
and I'm just like, wow, youdon't know anything about solar
and how long you've been doingthis, yeah.
Then I've talked to other solarsalespeople, like, wow, you do
know a lot.
Yeah, it just depends.
I've talked to people at theutility company and like, wow,
you don't know anything aboutsolar, do you?
But then I've also talked toother people at the utility
company and go, yeah, you doknow what you're talking about.
(37:47):
So it's going to depend.
Speaker 2 (37:50):
I agree.
I mean, I don't think it solar,especially if you're talking to
harman.
Um, I'm all about getting moreinformation, though yeah, I'm an
information guy too, so get itif, especially if it's free.
Why wouldn't you at leastlisten to what they have to say
and then match that to what asolar guy can tell you and see
how it all fits together?
yeah and if it still doesn'tmake sense, give us a call.
We'll kind of guide you throughit.
Yeah, it's a good question,though I knew that those things
(38:12):
are out there.
Um, am I better off not goingsolar than going solar with a
lease?
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (38:19):
I don't know your situation.
You know, is your house under aforest of trees, so no, you
shouldn't get solar if you haveshading issues.
Speaker 2 (38:27):
Right.
If you're in a house or you'rein a situation where solar makes
sense, then the answer isyou're better off going solar
Right If you're in, if you're ina situation where you're not
paying high bills and your houseis terrible for solar, then you
probably shouldn't go solarRight.
Speaker 1 (38:40):
I've told people don't get solar because of your
situation.
And then I've told their nextdoor neighbor you should get
solar because of your situation.
It's going to depend.
Speaker 2 (38:51):
How many times have we said it's specific to you?
Twice, this is not a cookiecutter situation Solar.
It is very customized to youand how you live in your home.
Speaker 1 (39:03):
And that doesn't matter.
If it's a purchase, a lease,cash doesn't matter.
Go watch Solar 101.
It's you and your situation,yeah.
Speaker 2 (39:09):
All of that is covered in Solar 101.
Go watch it.
But still, it's a commonquestion how much does it cost?
No, this is not that okay.
Will homeowners insurance coverthe panels?
No, but now this is a trickyquestion too.
Speaker 1 (39:24):
Yeah, you have a warranty for the panels, the the
manufacturer covers the panelsI think where you're.
Speaker 2 (39:32):
Yeah, homeowners insurance that doesn't have
anything to do with that.
I mean, I'm thinking in abusiness sense, it's just
totally different and not replyto this conversation.
So no, the manufacturer coversyour panels.
The homeowners warranties thatit covers your home.
So if there's damage thathappens as a result of something
with the solar hail, orbaseball or something like that.
Oh, I mean, if that stuffhappens, I mean that's I don't
(39:53):
the, the solar manufacturerwon't cover that.
Speaker 1 (39:54):
They don't cover that , but again.
I don't know what the questionis asking specifically if it's
what type of damage ormalfunctions.
So if it's malfunctions or thesystem is not producing as it
should, that's not thehomeowner's insurance, no,
that's the manufacturer.
But if there's damage to thesystem because of you know,
weather or baseball or somethinglike that, then Then we know
the manufacturer won't becausethey don't cover acts of God,
(40:17):
right, and that's when you wouldlook at, or whoever is that.
Speaker 2 (40:20):
That's when you'd look at your homeowner's
insurance to see if they wouldhelp you, right?
You know something like that, Iguess.
Okay, I'm not a homeownerinsurance expert.
You, really, you really shoulddo in that situation is talk to
your homeowner's insurance andsee what they do or do, because
a lot of those are verydifferent as well.
So that's, these are tough.
Quite that's a tough question.
Um, let's see here.
(40:42):
Well, I've heard leasing a ahuge.
I've heard leasing is a huge.
No, is lease to own any better?
lease to own okay, I don't knowof any.
They don't know least yellingcompanies.
But and you?
Speaker 1 (40:57):
probably heard, leasing was bad because of a
company that came to you thatdidn't provide a lease option
exactly so that they came to youhey, this is what we sell.
And uh, everything we don't sellis bad, like no, and that's not
how it works.
Gosh, that is so common.
It is common.
So in the same thing withleasing companies, they do it
too.
They go hey, leasing is greatand everything we don't sell is
(41:17):
bad, like no.
Just because you don't sell itdoesn't mean it's bad.
At Harman we do leases andpurchases, so it doesn't really
matter because we know the prosand cons to each.
So leasing isn't bad.
It might be bad for you in yoursituation, but it might be
fantastic for someone else intheir situation, like Ralph.
Ralph leases his system becauseit was great for his situation.
Speaker 2 (41:35):
Yeah, you know it depends on you.
You don't go to a Mercedesdealer and start saying, hey, I
want to go buy a BMW.
They're going to tell you whywould you do that?
Bmw suck.
Speaker 1 (41:43):
Mercedes are the way to go.
Speaker 2 (41:44):
Right, right, exactly .
That's the exact situationwe're talking about here.
So again, you know the key,some of the key things.
For at least, do you have a taxwrite-off, it makes a lot of
sense to buy it and take thosecredits.
Sure, you don't have thatliability.
Maybe you don't really havemuch of an income.
You're an older person andyou're on a fixed income and you
want a lease a fixed lease,because that's all you can deal
(42:05):
with and you can't takeadvantage of the credit that can
make sense for you.
It's just again, like Ben justsaid, customizable Solar 101
will answer all these questions.
I'm very disappointed in youguys that didn't watch Solar 101
and ask these questions, so Ineed you to go back and watch
that and then I need you toreport back to me and that's all
(42:25):
the questions we have.
Oh, okay, that's a lot ofquestions, not like the 30
something we had that one time.
Speaker 1 (42:30):
It's good questions and we get them a lot, though we
get the same questions over andover, but that's okay so I hope
that helps.
Speaker 2 (42:34):
So we've been able to provide you kind of an update
on what's going on in Arizona,answer some of your questions.
I hope you got a benefit tosome of the information we
shared.
Ben, is there anything elsethat you can think of that you
want to share right this moment?
Speaker 1 (42:46):
Not that I can think of.
Speaker 2 (42:47):
I bet you there is, you just don't want to talk
about it.
But anyway, we're going to comeback and we've got, we're
trying to put something together, something very, very special,
um, for a podcast that we'venever done before, that we've
talked about and danced aroundthe topic, um.
But I think we're just aboutthere and we're and we might get
this together for you.
So stay tuned, keep a watch outfor the next Harmon Solar
(43:10):
podcast.
I think it's going to beshockingly interesting oh, play
on words Shockingly interesting.
Hey, thanks for joining us andwe'll talk to you again soon.
Thank you, bye, bye.
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