August 17, 2023 • 15 mins
Ready to unlock the power of compliance in behavioral health? We've got you covered! Join me and the insightful Maeve O'Neill from CIRCA Behavioral Health as we navigate the complex terrain of outcomes, compliance, and data standardization. We expose the harsh truths about the lack of standardization in behavioral health and reveal how compliance can serve as a solid armor to safeguard your organization while boosting your earnings. As we unravel the fine threads of documentation management, we highlight the critical need for cultural fit when hiring, and discuss creating an environment that breathes learning, fostering perpetual growth and improvement.
Is there a secret recipe for establishing trust and safety in an organization? Absolutely! We shed light on the magic ingredient: clear expectations. Listen in as we dive into the core of understanding expectations as a roadmap to accountability and a crystal ball for future scenarios. We also emphasize that clarity isn't just power, but also kindness, cultivating trust and ensuring safety within your team. Stay tuned and be a part of this riveting discussion, packed with invaluable insights on behavioral health, the indispensability of compliance, and the essence of setting clear expectations.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to Hatching Creativity.
This isn't just anotherbehavioral health podcast.
This is the place where thoughtleaders converge to talk about
real life challenges,breakthroughs and pivotal aha
moments.
Hey everybody, thanks fortuning in to Hatching Creativity
.
In today's interview, I speakwith Maeve O'Neill from Circa
(00:21):
Behavioral Health.
Maeve is a behavioral healthcare industry expert and one of
the most passionate advocatesfor ethics and compliance.
We speak about outcomes,compliance, data standardization
and what you could be lookingat to best serve your business.
And don't forget if you likewhat you hear, please like,
(00:41):
subscribe and tell all yourfriends about Hatching
Creativity.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
I'm here with Maeve today.
Maeve, would you like to do anintroduction of yourself?
Speaker 3 (00:49):
So I worked in behavioral health my whole life
35 years, about 10 as aclinician, 10 managing programs
and then 10 in leadershippositions.
And then, luckily, the lastseven or eight of that has
gotten in compliance, where Ifound my love of helping other
organizations become morecompliant with regulatory stuff
or in line with what thestandards are across the
(01:11):
industry and then helping tomake sure our staff are ready
for that.
You know, I think it's a matterof making sure that individuals
, teams and organizations allhave the same information and
are walking towards the samegoals.
Speaker 2 (01:23):
You know it's funny.
I talked about standardizationthe time and there's such a lack
of standardization in this area, right, Everybody does things
their own way and feels thatit's better, but without
standardization, there's no wayto compare outcomes or results
(01:43):
or what is good.
Right?
You don't even know that,because I'm thinking that's so
many things, yeah, so I thinkthat's really valid.
Speaker 3 (01:52):
I feel I was telling someone earlier, I think, that
we in my career I went throughsort of the evidence-based
practice movement.
Do we have the right researchbases and the right clinical
practices?
Then we have the managed carekind of movement.
That one we'll align with whatpayers want.
And I think the next movementis going to be compliance.
Do we have all the standards?
Do they kind of make sense?
Are they different in everystate?
(02:14):
Or maybe there's some morealignment?
And how can we helporganizations implement them on
a daily basis?
We add a lot of headaches sothat's a lot of problems and
just integrate into their dailywork.
I think it's so much easier.
Speaker 2 (02:27):
Well, it's also interesting because the way
people manage compliance it allmakes it really hard.
People feel like, because theyare able to keep their license
or their accreditation, thatthat means that they're doing
enough on compliance, and whatthey're really missing is that
compliance should be used as atool All we're heard to protect
(02:50):
to protect your organization andto protect your revenue, or
potentially to generate revenue,if you're using the right tools
and looking at the right day ofthe month.
Speaker 3 (03:00):
Oh yeah, sure, I think compliance and behavioral
health.
We're a very kind of a babyprogram, right.
We're just maturing to thepoint of what is compliance.
Do we have all the elements?
Do we have all the pieces?
Do we have a framework, anapproach to it that makes sense,
or is everyone kind of justdoing the best they can?
It's what they have.
Is it a person?
Is it a good policy set?
Is it someone that's helpingthem to do it because they've
(03:22):
done it for so many years?
But I think we're going to seea lot more infusion to the field
of requirements fromaccreditation bodies, licensing
bodies.
You have to have a complianceplan and a program and a staff
and certifications, like we doin medical and clinical services
.
So it's coming.
It's going to be here soon, Ithink.
Speaker 2 (03:43):
You know.
What's interesting, though, isthat I think, as it meet,
there's tons of evolution needed.
But the other thing is, is theway people manage their
documentation, like they'replanning on the Joint Commission
or their state not coming outfor two and a half, three years,
right?
(04:04):
So what ends up happening is,if they're not coming out for
another two, three, whatever,people just do their own thing,
and then, as it gets closer,they're making up information.
We all see it right, and whatends up happening is the data is
useless.
I use examples all the time ofwhether it's client rounds.
(04:29):
People skip on client roundsall the time.
Oh, this is how you make sureyour clients don't die, you know
, or nobody's in a positionwhere they need a clinical help
and they can't get it.
There are all these standardsare here to help people, you
know, to help the clients, butdown the organizations and you
(04:50):
have to look in your data.
Perhaps let me actually dosomething very well.
Speaker 3 (04:54):
Yeah, a real good compliance plan and program that
looks at all those risk areasand the data behind it on a
regular basis to hopefully havea robust response in place,
right?
So you don't wait for JointCommission to come and say, oops
, you missed this, you'remanaging it.
You're managing it and then Ithink, you're learning from it,
and then you're developing aculture of learning, like you
(05:14):
always want to get better.
None of us has this perfect.
None of us has this fine tune.
It's an ongoing process andthen we can learn from each
other, I think, as we learnedthose last few months.
Speaker 2 (05:24):
You know it's funny, you talked about the culture.
So I had on Jordan Young onrecently and Jordan is a
recruiter in the space and wewere talking about hiring
processes, right, and one of thetopics that came up was don't
just hire somebody becausethey're a body and you need
(05:44):
somebody in there.
Then you really need to makesure that you're hiring somebody
who's a fit for your culture,because, one, it's very easy to
damage your reputation.
Two, it's very easy to poisonthe well with the rest of your
staff when you hire somebodythat's not a good cultural fit.
Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 3 (06:04):
So I think I've done an interview.
Question is how do you seecompliance?
What is the culture of safetylook like?
Here is our culture and how doyou see yourself fitting in?
Those are great ways tointerview and then, if someone
leaves the organization, maybeeven ask what didn't fit for you
, what in the organizationdidn't see right and are there
compliance concerns as you leave?
Those are great sort of touchpoints to integrate compliance
(06:28):
into those activities.
So you love it.
Speaker 2 (06:31):
I like that, you know .
I think that one of the thingsI've seen you present to a
thousand times by now and one ofthe things that always stands
out for me about yourpresentations as well as what
you talk about as well aspractice is staff taking care of
your people, understanding theburden and the workload on your
(06:54):
team so that they're not dealingwith them.
You want to talk about that,sure.
Speaker 3 (07:00):
I think it was probably seven years ago.
I wrote an article for theHealthcare Compliance
Association Magazine and thetitle was Compliance at the
Heart of the Organization and Ireally believe that compliance,
when done right, shouldn't be apunitive, scary place.
It really should be wherepeople come to feel heard, to
(07:21):
feel listened to, to feel safein the organization.
And when you do that and thenyou have, I think, better
outcomes for our clients, forour staff revenue.
Like you mentioned earlier, mynew mantra is happy and healthy
staff, our ethical and compliant, to provide quality and safe
care.
We can't do one without theother right.
We've got to do all this andthe compliance team person,
(07:44):
whatever should be part of thatprocess.
Whether you're using a platformlike Hatch or an EMR process or
whatever it is, team meetings,you wave it in and it just
becomes part of our dailyactivities.
That's the goal I like that.
Speaker 2 (07:58):
I think that makes a lot of sense.
If you could change somethingin the industry, what would that
be?
Speaker 3 (08:07):
Well, I guess I'd have to say about the staff.
I think I would change the factthat well, our challenge
programs, it is their staffcoming first, Because we all
want compliance to come first,or revenue or expenses, yeah
right.
But if it's really staff,you've got to say how do we
demonstrate that?
What does that look like on adaily basis?
(08:28):
Is it just going warm bodies?
Is it taking care of our staff?
Is it staff well-beingactivities I was just presenting
earlier about?
Do we have burnout initiativesin our programs?
What are we doing to preventburnout in our staff?
What are we doing to detectthat turnover on Maeve's team or
Mike's team?
And then what are you doingabout to collect it?
(08:48):
There's lots of things we cando, but if you don't know the
data, if you don't have theinformation, you can't really
address it.
Speaker 2 (08:55):
It's true.
It's true, I hear, because Italk to so many people about
things like this.
I always ask what are you doingto ensure that your staff is
happy?
So you talked a little bitabout staff appreciation and the
things that you do, and it'sfunny because so many
organizations I talked to youask them what are they doing for
staff appreciation and theyreally don't have any things.
(09:18):
Or maybe they do a pizza partyonce a quarter or something.
I was in California not thatlong ago and I was traveling
around visiting some of thetreatment centers that we work
with.
Then I sat with Michael, theCEO of Alter Health Group, in
Data Point, I believe, and hegoes hey, what are you doing
tonight?
I'm gonna say I haven't had anyplans.
(09:41):
What's going on?
I'm taking the whole staffroller skating tonight.
You want to cover?
And I was like what?
He goes yeah, they do teamroller skating.
And so the thing is is like,with these cool team events, if
you want to do something withthe team, do it outside the work
.
Don't necessarily they'respending enough time there,
(10:01):
right?
Yeah, do it outside and do itin a way where people can really
connect and become friends.
Yeah, find people look out foreach other that way and you're
dealing with not only avulnerable population your
clientele but a vulnerablepopulation as yours.
Speaker 3 (10:18):
Yeah, I love the creativity of it.
Right, like, whatever yourstaff, my staff, something else
that might be different.
So ask your staff what do theywant?
You might think they want apizza party, or maybe they want
to do something else.
You know what I mean.
So when you really, when youknow your staff, you know it's
okay to ask what right now do weneed?
Do we need a day off?
Do we need a party?
Speaker 2 (10:37):
What do we need?
Let's do it.
What the thing is iscommunication has to be often
and consistent, because if allof a sudden, you come out of the
blue and you go, hey, what doyou want to do?
Yeah, yeah, they're going to belike a deer on the headlights
and they're not going on likenot going to trust it, right?
So it has a lot to do with thatwhole culture, like, like you
(10:59):
had mentioned, you know, it's soimportant that your staff knows
and they're appreciated andrespected and you know and to.
Sometimes they may mess up, yeah, but you got to kind of look at
that mess up and wonder, youknow, and ask yourself is that a
mess up because of carelessness?
(11:20):
Is it a mess up because of,like, the personality?
Or maybe they go in throughsome stuff and maybe they just
need you to put your arm aroundthem and say, hey, you're going
to be all right and you're notat risk here.
Right, that goes all along theway.
Exactly, we've got people likethat.
You know where they fit off fora little while and you don't
(11:43):
know why they're off.
Yeah, but if you have thatcommunication with them along
the way, you can go out andstraight up.
Aspel, I'm noticing you're off,what's going on, and they'll
share that with you.
Speaker 3 (11:54):
I hope that connected you.
They trust you.
Yeah, totally.
Speaker 2 (11:57):
So if you, is there anything that you would say,
maybe for somebody who's lookingto get started building a
culture of compliance, whatwould you recommend?
How somebody gets started?
It seems like such a dauntingtask.
Speaker 3 (12:15):
Well, I guess the first thing is to kind of
recognize, if you have data,information, what's our current
culture?
So what's our baseline now,what do you want to get to?
And then you know folks like usin circuit.
We can help you figure outwhat's the best culture of
compliance.
What's that going to look like?
It's a risk assessment, right?
Do you have a plan?
Do you have a program?
Are you reaching the sevenelements?
Do you have a policy proceduremanual?
(12:37):
Do you have the training aroundthat, all those pieces.
And then you kind of you can'tfix it all at once.
What you can do is this year,let's do this, we'll tackle this
problem and that problem.
And then you kind of, I think,get the input of the staff, get
the input of the outside peopleand the next thing, you know
you're making progress and yourealize the effort in the work
is worth it and it will keepgrowing from there?
Speaker 2 (12:58):
So are you saying that the best method is one foot
in front of the other, asopposed to like just going wild
and flipping all organization onits head.
Speaker 3 (13:08):
I think so.
I think it's clarity.
What is the?
Where are we now?
Where do you want to get to?
And then taking steps towardthat, and you're going to make
mistakes along the way.
That's okay too, but I thinkhaving an outside person like us
come in and help assess that'sreally helpful too.
We see here things that may beunbiased internal yeah, the
unbiased objective opinion.
(13:29):
External kind of evaluation isreally helpful.
Speaker 2 (13:32):
You know you mentioned something a minute ago
about being clear.
You know, and I'm a big fan ofBrené Brown, just like you, and
she always says clear is kind,Conclear is unkind.
And I interpret that as settingup clear expectation of what
you expect from other people andwhat other people should expect
(13:53):
from you.
And if you are clear about that, if you hold them accountable
for it, they know what they'rebeing held accountable for.
The worst is when it'samorphous and we're just
guessing.
Speaker 3 (14:06):
Yeah, we feel safe when we know what expectations
are Right.
What am I?
What might happen?
What's going to happen?
How am I going to feel when ithappens?
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (14:14):
Thanks for tuning in to Hatchin' Creativity.
We appreciate your support.
Please don't forget to like andsubscribe until all your
friends about the show andremember it's never just about
one thing.
Welcome to Hatching Creativity.
This isn't just anotherbehavioral health podcast.
This is the place where thoughtleaders converge to talk about
real life challenges,breakthroughs and pivotal aha
moments.
Hey everybody, thanks fortuning in to Hatching Creativity
.
In today's interview, I speakwith Maeve O'Neill from Circa
(00:21):
Behavioral Health.
Maeve is a behavioral healthcare industry expert and one of
the most passionate advocatesfor ethics and compliance.
We speak about outcomes,compliance, data standardization
and what you could be lookingat to best serve your business.
And don't forget if you likewhat you hear, please like,
(00:41):
subscribe and tell all yourfriends about Hatching
Creativity.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
I'm here with Maeve today.
Maeve, would you like to do anintroduction of yourself?
Speaker 3 (00:49):
So I worked in behavioral health my whole life
35 years, about 10 as aclinician, 10 managing programs
and then 10 in leadershippositions.
And then, luckily, the lastseven or eight of that has
gotten in compliance, where Ifound my love of helping other
organizations become morecompliant with regulatory stuff
or in line with what thestandards are across the
(01:11):
industry and then helping tomake sure our staff are ready
for that.
You know, I think it's a matterof making sure that individuals
, teams and organizations allhave the same information and
are walking towards the samegoals.
Speaker 2 (01:23):
You know it's funny.
I talked about standardizationthe time and there's such a lack
of standardization in this area, right, Everybody does things
their own way and feels thatit's better, but without
standardization, there's no wayto compare outcomes or results
(01:43):
or what is good.
Right?
You don't even know that,because I'm thinking that's so
many things, yeah, so I thinkthat's really valid.
Speaker 3 (01:52):
I feel I was telling someone earlier, I think, that
we in my career I went throughsort of the evidence-based
practice movement.
Do we have the right researchbases and the right clinical
practices?
Then we have the managed carekind of movement.
That one we'll align with whatpayers want.
And I think the next movementis going to be compliance.
Do we have all the standards?
Do they kind of make sense?
Are they different in everystate?
(02:14):
Or maybe there's some morealignment?
And how can we helporganizations implement them on
a daily basis?
We add a lot of headaches sothat's a lot of problems and
just integrate into their dailywork.
I think it's so much easier.
Speaker 2 (02:27):
Well, it's also interesting because the way
people manage compliance it allmakes it really hard.
People feel like, because theyare able to keep their license
or their accreditation, thatthat means that they're doing
enough on compliance, and whatthey're really missing is that
compliance should be used as atool All we're heard to protect
(02:50):
to protect your organization andto protect your revenue, or
potentially to generate revenue,if you're using the right tools
and looking at the right day ofthe month.
Speaker 3 (03:00):
Oh yeah, sure, I think compliance and behavioral
health.
We're a very kind of a babyprogram, right.
We're just maturing to thepoint of what is compliance.
Do we have all the elements?
Do we have all the pieces?
Do we have a framework, anapproach to it that makes sense,
or is everyone kind of justdoing the best they can?
It's what they have.
Is it a person?
Is it a good policy set?
Is it someone that's helpingthem to do it because they've
(03:22):
done it for so many years?
But I think we're going to seea lot more infusion to the field
of requirements fromaccreditation bodies, licensing
bodies.
You have to have a complianceplan and a program and a staff
and certifications, like we doin medical and clinical services
.
So it's coming.
It's going to be here soon, Ithink.
Speaker 2 (03:43):
You know.
What's interesting, though, isthat I think, as it meet,
there's tons of evolution needed.
But the other thing is, is theway people manage their
documentation, like they'replanning on the Joint Commission
or their state not coming outfor two and a half, three years,
right?
(04:04):
So what ends up happening is,if they're not coming out for
another two, three, whatever,people just do their own thing,
and then, as it gets closer,they're making up information.
We all see it right, and whatends up happening is the data is
useless.
I use examples all the time ofwhether it's client rounds.
(04:29):
People skip on client roundsall the time.
Oh, this is how you make sureyour clients don't die, you know
, or nobody's in a positionwhere they need a clinical help
and they can't get it.
There are all these standardsare here to help people, you
know, to help the clients, butdown the organizations and you
(04:50):
have to look in your data.
Perhaps let me actually dosomething very well.
Speaker 3 (04:54):
Yeah, a real good compliance plan and program that
looks at all those risk areasand the data behind it on a
regular basis to hopefully havea robust response in place,
right?
So you don't wait for JointCommission to come and say, oops
, you missed this, you'remanaging it.
You're managing it and then Ithink, you're learning from it,
and then you're developing aculture of learning, like you
(05:14):
always want to get better.
None of us has this perfect.
None of us has this fine tune.
It's an ongoing process andthen we can learn from each
other, I think, as we learnedthose last few months.
Speaker 2 (05:24):
You know it's funny, you talked about the culture.
So I had on Jordan Young onrecently and Jordan is a
recruiter in the space and wewere talking about hiring
processes, right, and one of thetopics that came up was don't
just hire somebody becausethey're a body and you need
(05:44):
somebody in there.
Then you really need to makesure that you're hiring somebody
who's a fit for your culture,because, one, it's very easy to
damage your reputation.
Two, it's very easy to poisonthe well with the rest of your
staff when you hire somebodythat's not a good cultural fit.
Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 3 (06:04):
So I think I've done an interview.
Question is how do you seecompliance?
What is the culture of safetylook like?
Here is our culture and how doyou see yourself fitting in?
Those are great ways tointerview and then, if someone
leaves the organization, maybeeven ask what didn't fit for you
, what in the organizationdidn't see right and are there
compliance concerns as you leave?
Those are great sort of touchpoints to integrate compliance
(06:28):
into those activities.
So you love it.
Speaker 2 (06:31):
I like that, you know .
I think that one of the thingsI've seen you present to a
thousand times by now and one ofthe things that always stands
out for me about yourpresentations as well as what
you talk about as well aspractice is staff taking care of
your people, understanding theburden and the workload on your
(06:54):
team so that they're not dealingwith them.
You want to talk about that,sure.
Speaker 3 (07:00):
I think it was probably seven years ago.
I wrote an article for theHealthcare Compliance
Association Magazine and thetitle was Compliance at the
Heart of the Organization and Ireally believe that compliance,
when done right, shouldn't be apunitive, scary place.
It really should be wherepeople come to feel heard, to
(07:21):
feel listened to, to feel safein the organization.
And when you do that and thenyou have, I think, better
outcomes for our clients, forour staff revenue.
Like you mentioned earlier, mynew mantra is happy and healthy
staff, our ethical and compliant, to provide quality and safe
care.
We can't do one without theother right.
We've got to do all this andthe compliance team person,
(07:44):
whatever should be part of thatprocess.
Whether you're using a platformlike Hatch or an EMR process or
whatever it is, team meetings,you wave it in and it just
becomes part of our dailyactivities.
That's the goal I like that.
Speaker 2 (07:58):
I think that makes a lot of sense.
If you could change somethingin the industry, what would that
be?
Speaker 3 (08:07):
Well, I guess I'd have to say about the staff.
I think I would change the factthat well, our challenge
programs, it is their staffcoming first, Because we all
want compliance to come first,or revenue or expenses, yeah
right.
But if it's really staff,you've got to say how do we
demonstrate that?
What does that look like on adaily basis?
(08:28):
Is it just going warm bodies?
Is it taking care of our staff?
Is it staff well-beingactivities I was just presenting
earlier about?
Do we have burnout initiativesin our programs?
What are we doing to preventburnout in our staff?
What are we doing to detectthat turnover on Maeve's team or
Mike's team?
And then what are you doingabout to collect it?
(08:48):
There's lots of things we cando, but if you don't know the
data, if you don't have theinformation, you can't really
address it.
Speaker 2 (08:55):
It's true.
It's true, I hear, because Italk to so many people about
things like this.
I always ask what are you doingto ensure that your staff is
happy?
So you talked a little bitabout staff appreciation and the
things that you do, and it'sfunny because so many
organizations I talked to youask them what are they doing for
staff appreciation and theyreally don't have any things.
(09:18):
Or maybe they do a pizza partyonce a quarter or something.
I was in California not thatlong ago and I was traveling
around visiting some of thetreatment centers that we work
with.
Then I sat with Michael, theCEO of Alter Health Group, in
Data Point, I believe, and hegoes hey, what are you doing
tonight?
I'm gonna say I haven't had anyplans.
(09:41):
What's going on?
I'm taking the whole staffroller skating tonight.
You want to cover?
And I was like what?
He goes yeah, they do teamroller skating.
And so the thing is is like,with these cool team events, if
you want to do something withthe team, do it outside the work
.
Don't necessarily they'respending enough time there,
(10:01):
right?
Yeah, do it outside and do itin a way where people can really
connect and become friends.
Yeah, find people look out foreach other that way and you're
dealing with not only avulnerable population your
clientele but a vulnerablepopulation as yours.
Speaker 3 (10:18):
Yeah, I love the creativity of it.
Right, like, whatever yourstaff, my staff, something else
that might be different.
So ask your staff what do theywant?
You might think they want apizza party, or maybe they want
to do something else.
You know what I mean.
So when you really, when youknow your staff, you know it's
okay to ask what right now do weneed?
Do we need a day off?
Do we need a party?
Speaker 2 (10:37):
What do we need?
Let's do it.
What the thing is iscommunication has to be often
and consistent, because if allof a sudden, you come out of the
blue and you go, hey, what doyou want to do?
Yeah, yeah, they're going to belike a deer on the headlights
and they're not going on likenot going to trust it, right?
So it has a lot to do with thatwhole culture, like, like you
(10:59):
had mentioned, you know, it's soimportant that your staff knows
and they're appreciated andrespected and you know and to.
Sometimes they may mess up, yeah, but you got to kind of look at
that mess up and wonder, youknow, and ask yourself is that a
mess up because of carelessness?
(11:20):
Is it a mess up because of,like, the personality?
Or maybe they go in throughsome stuff and maybe they just
need you to put your arm aroundthem and say, hey, you're going
to be all right and you're notat risk here.
Right, that goes all along theway.
Exactly, we've got people likethat.
You know where they fit off fora little while and you don't
(11:43):
know why they're off.
Yeah, but if you have thatcommunication with them along
the way, you can go out andstraight up.
Aspel, I'm noticing you're off,what's going on, and they'll
share that with you.
Speaker 3 (11:54):
I hope that connected you.
They trust you.
Yeah, totally.
Speaker 2 (11:57):
So if you, is there anything that you would say,
maybe for somebody who's lookingto get started building a
culture of compliance, whatwould you recommend?
How somebody gets started?
It seems like such a dauntingtask.
Speaker 3 (12:15):
Well, I guess the first thing is to kind of
recognize, if you have data,information, what's our current
culture?
So what's our baseline now,what do you want to get to?
And then you know folks like usin circuit.
We can help you figure outwhat's the best culture of
compliance.
What's that going to look like?
It's a risk assessment, right?
Do you have a plan?
Do you have a program?
Are you reaching the sevenelements?
Do you have a policy proceduremanual?
(12:37):
Do you have the training aroundthat, all those pieces.
And then you kind of you can'tfix it all at once.
What you can do is this year,let's do this, we'll tackle this
problem and that problem.
And then you kind of, I think,get the input of the staff, get
the input of the outside peopleand the next thing, you know
you're making progress and yourealize the effort in the work
is worth it and it will keepgrowing from there?
Speaker 2 (12:58):
So are you saying that the best method is one foot
in front of the other, asopposed to like just going wild
and flipping all organization onits head.
Speaker 3 (13:08):
I think so.
I think it's clarity.
What is the?
Where are we now?
Where do you want to get to?
And then taking steps towardthat, and you're going to make
mistakes along the way.
That's okay too, but I thinkhaving an outside person like us
come in and help assess that'sreally helpful too.
We see here things that may beunbiased internal yeah, the
unbiased objective opinion.
(13:29):
External kind of evaluation isreally helpful.
Speaker 2 (13:32):
You know you mentioned something a minute ago
about being clear.
You know, and I'm a big fan ofBrené Brown, just like you, and
she always says clear is kind,Conclear is unkind.
And I interpret that as settingup clear expectation of what
you expect from other people andwhat other people should expect
(13:53):
from you.
And if you are clear about that, if you hold them accountable
for it, they know what they'rebeing held accountable for.
The worst is when it'samorphous and we're just
guessing.
Speaker 3 (14:06):
Yeah, we feel safe when we know what expectations
are Right.
What am I?
What might happen?
What's going to happen?
How am I going to feel when ithappens?
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (14:14):
Thanks for tuning in to Hatchin' Creativity.
We appreciate your support.
Please don't forget to like andsubscribe until all your
friends about the show andremember it's never just about
one thing.
Popular Podcasts
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
Cold Case Files: Miami
Joyce Sapp, 76; Bryan Herrera, 16; and Laurance Webb, 32—three Miami residents whose lives were stolen in brutal, unsolved homicides.  Cold Case Files: Miami follows award‑winning radio host and City of Miami Police reserve officer  Enrique Santos as he partners with the department’s Cold Case Homicide Unit, determined family members, and the advocates who spend their lives fighting for justice for the victims who can no longer fight for themselves.