August 17, 2023 • 15 mins
Ever wondered the secret behind successfully launching a behavioral health business or treatment center? Glenn Hadley and Jordan Young have the answers! As a Senior VP of Strategy at Dreamscape Marketing and CEO of Jordan Associates Consulting respectively, these two industry titans share pearls of wisdom garnered from their extensive experience.
From unpacking the quintessential elements of effective planning to pinpointing the importance of a well-defined business identity, Glenn Hadley elucidates the maze of starting up a venture. He underlines the necessity of not just abundant time and funding, but also a clear understanding of your business's unique identity. Continuing this enriching conversation, Jordan Young takes us through the intricacies of setting up a treatment center. He emphasizes the value of understanding your target market and examining potential partnerships, competition, and local payers. All this, laced with the importance of partnerships and an honest discussion about the challenges and rewards of starting a new venture in behavioral health. Tune in for a dose of insightful advice, practical tips, and some truly seminal business lessons.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to Hatching Creativity.
This isn't just anotherbehavioral health podcast.
This is the place where thoughtleaders converge to talk about
real life challenges,breakthroughs and pivotal aha
moments.
Thanks for tuning in.
Today I speak with Glenn Hadley, a senior VP of strategy at
Dreamscape Marketing, and JordanYoung from Jordan Associates
(00:22):
Consulting, and we talk aboutthe best pieces of business
advice they've ever received andhow they used it.
Don't forget if you like whatyou hear, please like, subscribe
and tell all your friends aboutHatching Creativity.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
So, glenn, would you mind doing a brief introduction
of yourself, Glenn Hadley.
Speaker 3 (00:39):
I'm the senior vice president of strategy at
Dreamscape Marketing and SBMGroup.
Dreamscape has been in thebusiness for about 17 years.
The SBM Group has been aroundwe're celebrating our 40th year
and so I've had the opportunityto put these, all this marketing
campaigns together for healthfair organizations, not just in
behavioral but also intraditional health care and
senior living, and so justreally excited to bring what we
(01:03):
do really well here inbehavioral health care to those
areas and vice-versa.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
Awesome.
I always look forward tocatching you at the conferences,
either as a running partner orwhatever you know.
So, right on, and interestingfact, we just found out that
Glenn doesn't need sugar, sothat's pretty awesome.
And Jordan, how about you?
Everyone want to do a briefintroduction of yourself, jordan
Young.
I'm CEO of Jordan andassociate's peace salting.
I worked in behavioral healthcare for 13 years.
(01:32):
For the last five years I havebeen on my own consulting.
The primary focus of mybusiness is I have treatment
centers and companies thatservice treatment center hire
each staff Awesome.
I have a ton of questions forboth of you guys, but I think
first question I want to ask isfor somebody who is new to the
(01:52):
industry, or maybe for somebodywho is just looking to see how
they can improve.
What is the best piece ofbusiness advice that you feel
you've ever given or that youwould like to give to somebody
in that position?
Speaker 3 (02:06):
I think, from doing this a number of times, both
from a marketing standpoint butalso as an operator like
standing up a treatment centeroperations is always give
yourself double the time anddouble the money that you think
you're going to need and juststarted like that's a big deal.
(02:26):
I can't tell you how manypeople have come to me and have
said, look, I have a.
You know, I've got this, thisfunding.
They've given me a milliondollars to get this thing
started off the ground and thenI listened to their ambitions
and what they want to do withthat.
Like you're going to need waymore.
Or, on the flip side of that,they come to me and they say,
all right, we got all thisfunding, we're good to go here,
(02:49):
we're looking to get licensedand offending and we should be
open in a couple months and weneed a website.
You're like that's not enoughtime.
Like you have to do so muchmore in that time leading out to
opening and so well, how wouldyou?
That is that is it Now.
If you have the time and youhave the money, the next thing
is really deciding like who areyou as a business?
(03:12):
Like you can get the time, thefunding and you have a clear
definition of who you want to beLike.
That's how you say yourself.
Speaker 2 (03:21):
That makes sense.
You know, one of the thingsthat we see often is people will
say I want to open up atreatment center, this is where
I want to go, this is what Iwant to do.
And you'll say we'll say, letme see your performance, I go,
what do you mean?
And you go.
Well, how are you planning thisout, Right?
How are you going to make thishappen?
How far is that money going totake you?
(03:44):
And another thing that we alwaysask is how did you come up with
the city and state and level ofcare you want to open?
Because sometimes people justdo it because they have a
building in that area or theylike that area.
But really, it's reallyimportant then this is one of
the things that we do on ourconsulting team is you evaluate
(04:06):
the payers in the area, whatMedicaid is paying in the area,
If you want to be in Medicaidfacility, what the competition
looks like.
Maybe you can partner withother facilities, right?
So really, I think what you'resaying is really getting so.
We are a picture understandingof everything before.
Speaker 3 (04:23):
Before you start, because here's the thing if you
have a 15-barried out-of-networkresidential or detox res, that
is a very, very different marketthan if you're in a 150-bed
Medicaid facility in New England.
So it's completely differentareas that you need to look at
(04:47):
it and you're going to have toapproach those in different ways
.
There's a differentaccreditation for that.
Different skill sets needed,different staff you're going to
have to hire for that.
There's so much that goes intothose two things.
If you're just like, oh, I havea building, let's do that.
Speaker 2 (05:03):
First you have to find out if the building is even
zoned appropriately for it too.
Speaker 3 (05:08):
There's so much to do more, too, and think about this
going back to the time thinglike give yourself much more
time.
How many horror stories haveyou heard about fire marshals
and sprinkler systems?
Speaker 2 (05:19):
Neighborhood neighborhoods, townships, things
like that.
Speaker 3 (05:23):
So you have to not only know who you are, who you
want to be, who you're going tobe, what markets you're going to
be and what air mix you'regoing to have, but then you're
all set to get down to thenitty-gritty of opening up
business.
Speaker 2 (05:34):
So that's always something.
That's fun, it's funny.
One of the things that makesthis industry really unique is
that you don't really need anyspecial skills to decide you
want to open a treatment center.
You have some money in the bank.
Usually it's a mission to helppeople.
We hope that's the reason we'rehere and that's it.
(05:56):
You don't get out of thesuccessful episode of a brain
surgery and go I'm going to openup a brain surgery clinic.
It doesn't happen that way.
So having a true professionalthat can guide you to best
practices in terms of everythingor can connect you with the
right people when somebody saysto me about marketing, that's
(06:19):
not my area, we send them to youguys.
Staffing-wise, we would send toyou.
So it's that kind of thingreally.
If you don't know, don't guess.
I think so that's also aproblem.
Speaker 3 (06:33):
You see that right.
How many times have you beenbrought into a project to staff
it and seeing like, oh wow,there's a lot more that needs to
happen.
I can bring I'm not freakingworkers here, but there's more
that needs to be done first.
Speaker 2 (06:49):
Yeah, yes, sure, and so until you take so much more
than their efforts, you'rescrambling then.
So, jordan, let me ask you thesame question what would you say
is the best business adviceyou've been given or the best
business advice that you cangive to somebody else?
Honestly, I'm going to doubledown on what Ben had to say in
(07:11):
knowing what you do and embraceyou what you do, because
oftentimes we see, withtreatment centers, they want to
be everything to everything.
And you know what is youraudience.
Audience is everything.
My audience is adolescence.
My audience is people withsubstance use disorders.
My audience is professionals atLGBTQ community Everumen, and
(07:36):
it's difficult and it's kind ofit's almost clutter.
You don't have right.
So you know we're establishedpartnerships.
It's hard to distinguish yourvoice, you know, from a
marketing perspective, whenyou're trying to capture all in
these different routes.
Yeah, from my personalperspective.
And consulting when I firststarted consulting, I wanted to
(07:59):
do everything.
What do you do?
Well, I do this and this andthis and this and this, and I
had to call people who I trust,some kind of mentors, a month
and say, okay, I know you and Iwould have a conversation with
you because I know you and Ilike you.
But I don't understand what youdo For a niche.
Is that I do and when I hold inthe focus that, okay, this is
(08:19):
what I claim I want to do, butreally what the market needs me
to do and what my skills aregoing to be best served doing is
helping people hire key staff,and I don't do all staff.
You know you need all thesedifferent staff.
You need your frontline tech.
That's not where I'm bestsuited.
I'm best suited in these cityareas, in this market.
(08:43):
I heard an expression oncewhich is if your pool is really
wide but not deep, you don'teven get your fee wet and it's
kind of like that where you go.
Yeah, there's only so much Ican do if I'm spread that fit.
So it's great to have a bitdeeper in any specific area.
Speaker 3 (09:07):
Something else here along the business advice right
now that I'm seeing that kind ofplays into both of our
wheelhouses here, what we do.
Starting July 1st, google willswitching to.
They're switching off GoogleAnalytics as their analytics
platform.
They're going to do GoogleAnalytics 4.
And so to be able to use thatplatform to analyze your data
(09:29):
and your marketing channels theoriginal Google Analytics
setting off you're not going tobe able to use that.
You'll have to go to GA4.
But GA4 is not HIPAA compliantbecause Google will allow a side
of BAA business associationagreement with anyone with an
operator, and HIPAA, as Kamauansaid, will not be compliant.
(09:50):
And so I see a number ofoperators right now having to
make that shift.
We're doing it a lot for allour customers right now, making
that shift over not only fromGoogle Analytics to Google
Analytics 4, but then also usingother tools to make it HIPAA
compliant, because you have toget another vendor who will side
(10:11):
of BAA with you to do that soit can become HIPAA compliant.
And you see that starts.
Speaker 2 (10:16):
July 1st.
So look, if you guys are in aposition where you're not aware
of these things, reach out toGlenn.
I'll have his contactinformation in the description
somewhere.
Or look up Dreamscape Marketing.
That is really important to beaware of.
Speaker 3 (10:34):
And for all of us that are in the Kamauan area,
this is a big deal.
This is something that everyoneacross all of healthcare is
having to look at, and we'reseeing it so much in traditional
healthcare because they have alot of private information right
.
They get moved around and sothey're scrambling over there.
(10:56):
I'm seeing in this area ofbehavioral that many operators
that are aware of it right aremaking this shift.
There are some that are awareof it that are they're rolling
the dice.
Speaker 2 (11:10):
There's probably some big fines.
I mean the last I saw was about$1,000 a day.
Her occurrence.
I mean that is huge.
Speaker 3 (11:21):
It's a big deal.
The ones that I really want toreach are the people that don't
know about it at all, right,that are like unaware.
They didn't get the ball.
It's in his face.
Hipaa sent an email about it,right, and that's what he told
people Google Analytics was.
Yeah, that was a bigannouncement, but sure, these
implications are pretty seriousfor us.
(11:41):
So I just hope that the wordgets out about that and that
your customers and our customersare on board and making that
shift.
Speaker 2 (11:49):
That makes sense.
That makes a lot of sense.
You can't claim you didn't knowwhen it comes to a HIPAA
violation.
It doesn't work that way.
Hey, don't just slap you on thewrist, you'll end up with some
big issues.
I think that's some really goodadvice.
Speaker 1 (12:05):
Thanks for tuning in to Hatchin' Creativity.
We appreciate your support.
Please don't forget to like andsubscribe and tell all your
friends about the show.
No-transcript you.
Welcome to Hatching Creativity.
This isn't just anotherbehavioral health podcast.
This is the place where thoughtleaders converge to talk about
real life challenges,breakthroughs and pivotal aha
moments.
Thanks for tuning in.
Today I speak with Glenn Hadley, a senior VP of strategy at
Dreamscape Marketing, and JordanYoung from Jordan Associates
(00:22):
Consulting, and we talk aboutthe best pieces of business
advice they've ever received andhow they used it.
Don't forget if you like whatyou hear, please like, subscribe
and tell all your friends aboutHatching Creativity.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
So, glenn, would you mind doing a brief introduction
of yourself, Glenn Hadley.
Speaker 3 (00:39):
I'm the senior vice president of strategy at
Dreamscape Marketing and SBMGroup.
Dreamscape has been in thebusiness for about 17 years.
The SBM Group has been aroundwe're celebrating our 40th year
and so I've had the opportunityto put these, all this marketing
campaigns together for healthfair organizations, not just in
behavioral but also intraditional health care and
senior living, and so justreally excited to bring what we
(01:03):
do really well here inbehavioral health care to those
areas and vice-versa.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
Awesome.
I always look forward tocatching you at the conferences,
either as a running partner orwhatever you know.
So, right on, and interestingfact, we just found out that
Glenn doesn't need sugar, sothat's pretty awesome.
And Jordan, how about you?
Everyone want to do a briefintroduction of yourself, jordan
Young.
I'm CEO of Jordan andassociate's peace salting.
I worked in behavioral healthcare for 13 years.
(01:32):
For the last five years I havebeen on my own consulting.
The primary focus of mybusiness is I have treatment
centers and companies thatservice treatment center hire
each staff Awesome.
I have a ton of questions forboth of you guys, but I think
first question I want to ask isfor somebody who is new to the
(01:52):
industry, or maybe for somebodywho is just looking to see how
they can improve.
What is the best piece ofbusiness advice that you feel
you've ever given or that youwould like to give to somebody
in that position?
Speaker 3 (02:06):
I think, from doing this a number of times, both
from a marketing standpoint butalso as an operator like
standing up a treatment centeroperations is always give
yourself double the time anddouble the money that you think
you're going to need and juststarted like that's a big deal.
(02:26):
I can't tell you how manypeople have come to me and have
said, look, I have a.
You know, I've got this, thisfunding.
They've given me a milliondollars to get this thing
started off the ground and thenI listened to their ambitions
and what they want to do withthat.
Like you're going to need waymore.
Or, on the flip side of that,they come to me and they say,
all right, we got all thisfunding, we're good to go here,
(02:49):
we're looking to get licensedand offending and we should be
open in a couple months and weneed a website.
You're like that's not enoughtime.
Like you have to do so muchmore in that time leading out to
opening and so well, how wouldyou?
That is that is it Now.
If you have the time and youhave the money, the next thing
is really deciding like who areyou as a business?
(03:12):
Like you can get the time, thefunding and you have a clear
definition of who you want to beLike.
That's how you say yourself.
Speaker 2 (03:21):
That makes sense.
You know, one of the thingsthat we see often is people will
say I want to open up atreatment center, this is where
I want to go, this is what Iwant to do.
And you'll say we'll say, letme see your performance, I go,
what do you mean?
And you go.
Well, how are you planning thisout, Right?
How are you going to make thishappen?
How far is that money going totake you?
(03:44):
And another thing that we alwaysask is how did you come up with
the city and state and level ofcare you want to open?
Because sometimes people justdo it because they have a
building in that area or theylike that area.
But really, it's reallyimportant then this is one of
the things that we do on ourconsulting team is you evaluate
(04:06):
the payers in the area, whatMedicaid is paying in the area,
If you want to be in Medicaidfacility, what the competition
looks like.
Maybe you can partner withother facilities, right?
So really, I think what you'resaying is really getting so.
We are a picture understandingof everything before.
Speaker 3 (04:23):
Before you start, because here's the thing if you
have a 15-barried out-of-networkresidential or detox res, that
is a very, very different marketthan if you're in a 150-bed
Medicaid facility in New England.
So it's completely differentareas that you need to look at
(04:47):
it and you're going to have toapproach those in different ways
.
There's a differentaccreditation for that.
Different skill sets needed,different staff you're going to
have to hire for that.
There's so much that goes intothose two things.
If you're just like, oh, I havea building, let's do that.
Speaker 2 (05:03):
First you have to find out if the building is even
zoned appropriately for it too.
Speaker 3 (05:08):
There's so much to do more, too, and think about this
going back to the time thinglike give yourself much more
time.
How many horror stories haveyou heard about fire marshals
and sprinkler systems?
Speaker 2 (05:19):
Neighborhood neighborhoods, townships, things
like that.
Speaker 3 (05:23):
So you have to not only know who you are, who you
want to be, who you're going tobe, what markets you're going to
be and what air mix you'regoing to have, but then you're
all set to get down to thenitty-gritty of opening up
business.
Speaker 2 (05:34):
So that's always something.
That's fun, it's funny.
One of the things that makesthis industry really unique is
that you don't really need anyspecial skills to decide you
want to open a treatment center.
You have some money in the bank.
Usually it's a mission to helppeople.
We hope that's the reason we'rehere and that's it.
(05:56):
You don't get out of thesuccessful episode of a brain
surgery and go I'm going to openup a brain surgery clinic.
It doesn't happen that way.
So having a true professionalthat can guide you to best
practices in terms of everythingor can connect you with the
right people when somebody saysto me about marketing, that's
(06:19):
not my area, we send them to youguys.
Staffing-wise, we would send toyou.
So it's that kind of thingreally.
If you don't know, don't guess.
I think so that's also aproblem.
Speaker 3 (06:33):
You see that right.
How many times have you beenbrought into a project to staff
it and seeing like, oh wow,there's a lot more that needs to
happen.
I can bring I'm not freakingworkers here, but there's more
that needs to be done first.
Speaker 2 (06:49):
Yeah, yes, sure, and so until you take so much more
than their efforts, you'rescrambling then.
So, jordan, let me ask you thesame question what would you say
is the best business adviceyou've been given or the best
business advice that you cangive to somebody else?
Honestly, I'm going to doubledown on what Ben had to say in
(07:11):
knowing what you do and embraceyou what you do, because
oftentimes we see, withtreatment centers, they want to
be everything to everything.
And you know what is youraudience.
Audience is everything.
My audience is adolescence.
My audience is people withsubstance use disorders.
My audience is professionals atLGBTQ community Everumen, and
(07:36):
it's difficult and it's kind ofit's almost clutter.
You don't have right.
So you know we're establishedpartnerships.
It's hard to distinguish yourvoice, you know, from a
marketing perspective, whenyou're trying to capture all in
these different routes.
Yeah, from my personalperspective.
And consulting when I firststarted consulting, I wanted to
(07:59):
do everything.
What do you do?
Well, I do this and this andthis and this and this, and I
had to call people who I trust,some kind of mentors, a month
and say, okay, I know you and Iwould have a conversation with
you because I know you and Ilike you.
But I don't understand what youdo For a niche.
Is that I do and when I hold inthe focus that, okay, this is
(08:19):
what I claim I want to do, butreally what the market needs me
to do and what my skills aregoing to be best served doing is
helping people hire key staff,and I don't do all staff.
You know you need all thesedifferent staff.
You need your frontline tech.
That's not where I'm bestsuited.
I'm best suited in these cityareas, in this market.
(08:43):
I heard an expression oncewhich is if your pool is really
wide but not deep, you don'teven get your fee wet and it's
kind of like that where you go.
Yeah, there's only so much Ican do if I'm spread that fit.
So it's great to have a bitdeeper in any specific area.
Speaker 3 (09:07):
Something else here along the business advice right
now that I'm seeing that kind ofplays into both of our
wheelhouses here, what we do.
Starting July 1st, google willswitching to.
They're switching off GoogleAnalytics as their analytics
platform.
They're going to do GoogleAnalytics 4.
And so to be able to use thatplatform to analyze your data
(09:29):
and your marketing channels theoriginal Google Analytics
setting off you're not going tobe able to use that.
You'll have to go to GA4.
But GA4 is not HIPAA compliantbecause Google will allow a side
of BAA business associationagreement with anyone with an
operator, and HIPAA, as Kamauansaid, will not be compliant.
(09:50):
And so I see a number ofoperators right now having to
make that shift.
We're doing it a lot for allour customers right now, making
that shift over not only fromGoogle Analytics to Google
Analytics 4, but then also usingother tools to make it HIPAA
compliant, because you have toget another vendor who will side
(10:11):
of BAA with you to do that soit can become HIPAA compliant.
And you see that starts.
Speaker 2 (10:16):
July 1st.
So look, if you guys are in aposition where you're not aware
of these things, reach out toGlenn.
I'll have his contactinformation in the description
somewhere.
Or look up Dreamscape Marketing.
That is really important to beaware of.
Speaker 3 (10:34):
And for all of us that are in the Kamauan area,
this is a big deal.
This is something that everyoneacross all of healthcare is
having to look at, and we'reseeing it so much in traditional
healthcare because they have alot of private information right
.
They get moved around and sothey're scrambling over there.
(10:56):
I'm seeing in this area ofbehavioral that many operators
that are aware of it right aremaking this shift.
There are some that are awareof it that are they're rolling
the dice.
Speaker 2 (11:10):
There's probably some big fines.
I mean the last I saw was about$1,000 a day.
Her occurrence.
I mean that is huge.
Speaker 3 (11:21):
It's a big deal.
The ones that I really want toreach are the people that don't
know about it at all, right,that are like unaware.
They didn't get the ball.
It's in his face.
Hipaa sent an email about it,right, and that's what he told
people Google Analytics was.
Yeah, that was a bigannouncement, but sure, these
implications are pretty seriousfor us.
(11:41):
So I just hope that the wordgets out about that and that
your customers and our customersare on board and making that
shift.
Speaker 2 (11:49):
That makes sense.
That makes a lot of sense.
You can't claim you didn't knowwhen it comes to a HIPAA
violation.
It doesn't work that way.
Hey, don't just slap you on thewrist, you'll end up with some
big issues.
I think that's some really goodadvice.
Speaker 1 (12:05):
Thanks for tuning in to Hatchin' Creativity.
We appreciate your support.
Please don't forget to like andsubscribe and tell all your
friends about the show.
No-transcript you.
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