August 7, 2025 • 10 mins
In this episode of HDT Talks Trucking, Deborah Lockridge catches up with 2023 HDT Truck Fleet Innovator Brad Bayne of 4Gen Logistics for a progress report on zero-emission trucks during this time of deregulation.
▶️ Topics include:
- The current makeup of 4Gen’s zero-emission fleet
- The fallout from Nikola’s bankruptcy
- Customer expectations vs. cost realities
- California’s regulatory resolve and future strategy
👉 Don’t miss Part 2, where Lockridge and Bayne dive into the operational lessons learned from running electric trucks daily in 4Gen's port drayage operations.
🔗 RESOURCES & LINKS
4 Gen's Brad Bayne Full Steam Ahead on Electric Trucks
New EPA Proposal Could Erase GHG Emissions Standards for Trucks
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:05):
All right. So this is Deborah Lockridge,
and I'm talking to Brad Bain. He's Vice President of Strategic
Initiatives with Four Gen. Logistics.
And we're going to talk about the state of 0 emission truck
adoption. It's good to talk to you again.
Yeah, great to talk to. You.
So when we first spoke in 2023, and I can't believe it's only
(00:26):
been two years, you were lookingto have 64 battery electric
trucks in operation in Forgeance, California drage
operations. And your goal was to become the
first North American motor carrier to have an all 0
emission drage fleet by 2025. And here we are in 2025.
I know there were some delays with getting the trucks in the
(00:47):
infrastructure, but you've been getting past that.
But got to tell me where, where are you today?
Yeah. Absolutely we are.
We do have 64 battery electric trucks.
We have both of our charging infrastructure locations are
live as of last October. So we have charging at our home
base in Rialto and also at our yard in the Long Beach Port.
(01:10):
So we're excited for that. We're running 20 Kenworth
T680ES41, Volvo D and Rs, and westill have three of the BYD
trucks that we kind of started with back in the day.
Throughout that process, we alsobought 15 hydrogen fuel cell
trucks from Nikola. So we have a total of 79 zero
(01:30):
emission trucks right now. We're kind of in limbo with
Nikola filing bankruptcy and howthat's all going to play out.
So we're not using them much at all right now until we find out
if there's a way to support themand find a better price for
hydrogen after Nikola went under.
So that's still kind of in the works.
(01:51):
But other than that, we have I think 2 CNGS and two diesels
left in California that the planis still to have them out by the
end of 2025 and reach our goal of completely 0 emission in
California. That's great since you've made a
good deal of progress in the last couple of years.
Yes, it's as we've talked about before, it's been probably the
(02:14):
one of the the toughest, most challenging journeys that I've
ever been a part of, but also the most rewarding.
Now that we're we've kind of made it through and we're up and
running and adjusting to life with battery electric versus
diesels and the team is happy and excited.
(02:34):
And so that's all good, good news for me.
I. Wanted to ask you about this
regulatory shift we've seen thisyear with and we've seen
Congress revoking Clean Air Act waivers for California.
Now the EPA wants to stop regulating greenhouse gas
emissions all together. I'm sure you've been watching
(02:57):
all this closely. What are your thoughts?
Is it going to affect your your operations or plans in any way?
Oh, absolutely. Needless to say, you know, we
one of the major reasons we wentso aggressive so early was you
know, ACT and ACF and how that was going to affect us being a
drayage carrier, especially withyou know, not being able to
(03:20):
register anything but zero emission trucks, you know, the
ports of LA and Long Beach, We saw that as an opportunity to
get ahead of it. We went aggressive, but we also
knew there was risk. So for us, you know, definitely
not happy, but we under things understand things are a little
bit cyclical. So but the one thing I've always
(03:41):
been aggressive with is regardless of what the federal
government's doing or who's the president is, California's kind
of always beat to their own drummer anyway.
So Needless to say, the federal part of it was a little bit of a
set back for them. But catching up and talking to a
lot of people in the background there in California, and they're
(04:03):
very aggressively looking for ways to continue their drive
towards 0 emission in the state.So we always felt that was going
to be in play anyway. The Port of Long Beach has
invested so much in their zero emission strategy, reducing
their carbon footprint, that they're not changing gears.
So, but there's still a lot of grant money available from the
(04:25):
state of California for different things.
So California is doing what theycan and I think they'll continue
to refine their regulation around the ultimate goals they
want to achieve. CARB is not going away and CARB
is not changing their stance on what they want to do so might
find. Different ways to get there.
Figured out, Yeah. I'm sure, you know, you talk to
(04:47):
other fleets and you've talked, you've talked to the truck
makers and you, you know, talking to regulators.
I'm sure you're pretty plugged into everything there.
You know, kind of anything else you're hearing from your
counterparts or truck, truck makers, anything there?
From a Volvo perspective, their worldwide goals have not changed
(05:09):
regardless of who president is. So they're still very focused on
reducing their carbon footprint.So they're still very aggressive
in the, in the Bev space, but you know, they're aggressive in
some other avenues where they might start looking at a
hydrogen fuel cell truck or hydrogen combustion engine, plus
(05:30):
what they're doing with their their diesel technology to
reduce emissions. So Volvo very committed.
I haven't spent a lot of time with Kenworth to kind of see
which direction they're going now, but I'll hopefully get some
more of that information. I do know they have a new
generation truck out that I had a chance to to see and I'll be
looking at it again up in Seattle on their test track.
(05:53):
And I'm very excited about theirnext generation.
It's a complete Kenworth build from the ground up.
So we'll get a better exposure to that next week and kind of
see if there's some options there.
They're offering different battery packs, which is
important to us as far as the range goes.
So excited to get up there, spend a couple days with them
and kind of see where where they're heading from.
(06:14):
Zero emission space. What about customer demand?
What are you hearing from customers as far as are you
know, are they looking for companies to work with that have
0 emission transportation and reduce their own the scope 3
emissions carbon footprint? Well, they're definitely very
(06:37):
excited for us to deliver with 0emission trucks.
They're definitely not excited to pay us more to deliver with
right now. As everybody knows, the freight
rates are, you know, down and they've been down for a
considerable time. We're hoping to see that kind of
come back in our favor here soon.
So yes, customers love it. We do have some customers that
(07:01):
are specific because of our zeroemission trucks, not that once
again they're willing to pay more for it.
We have some others that love itwhen we deliver because it's
helping them offset their where credits that they're dealing
with from a warehouse distribution center perspective.
But until kind of freights changes and the rates go back up
(07:22):
a little bit, right now, most companies, 95% of them probably
are not open to paying more justbecause you're, you've invested
all this money in 0 emission technology.
They love it when you deliver with it, but they're not really
willing to pay more for it. So Matt, I guess how do you deal
with that? I mean, costs have gone up for
everything. Fleets, I was talking to some
(07:46):
yesterday. We're talking about tires have
gone up significantly. You know, all the costs have
gone up significantly. Rates have not gone up.
How do in so you've got the extra costs of the 0 emissions
trucks and investment. How do you, how do you, how do
you deal with that? Well, luckily going into this,
(08:09):
we were positioned very well financially as a company.
So that definitely helps. As you've probably seen, there's
been some pretty significant closures of companies, small
land, mid size and even some large ones.
I would consider that haven't been able to make it through
this little suppression of rateswe've been seeing.
(08:30):
But for us it's we're all about expense control where we can.
Of course the good news is for us we're seeing at our cost of
fuel, which is now electricity is is probably luckily we're in
California. So we have $5 diesel prices.
So when you start doing a comparison of electricity versus
(08:51):
diesel, it makes it a little easier to to see that we are
saving some money on the fuel side from the electricity.
Although the rate's in California, especially this time
of year, I mean during peak timethey're $0.51 a kilowatt from
4:00 to 9:00 PM. So we definitely try to
eliminate our charging during that time.
So but for us it's we were positioned well.
(09:12):
We have a very solid customer base.
We're definitely not making the money that we were before or we
hope to be right now, but we're still very bullish on our
commitment that we've made. There's still a lot of
organizations out there that areextremely happy that we made
that move that are supporting us.
(09:32):
And ultimately, we see this as just one of those freak
downturns. We just happen to be widely and
highly invested into 0 emission technology, but we're we're
excited to, it'll all turn in our favor and we're not turning
back. So we're not buying diesels in
California at least. We have no plans to do that.
So we're very committed to our initiative that we set forth
(09:53):
about four years ago.
All right. So this is Deborah Lockridge,
and I'm talking to Brad Bain. He's Vice President of Strategic
Initiatives with Four Gen. Logistics.
And we're going to talk about the state of 0 emission truck
adoption. It's good to talk to you again.
Yeah, great to talk to. You.
So when we first spoke in 2023, and I can't believe it's only
(00:26):
been two years, you were lookingto have 64 battery electric
trucks in operation in Forgeance, California drage
operations. And your goal was to become the
first North American motor carrier to have an all 0
emission drage fleet by 2025. And here we are in 2025.
I know there were some delays with getting the trucks in the
(00:47):
infrastructure, but you've been getting past that.
But got to tell me where, where are you today?
Yeah. Absolutely we are.
We do have 64 battery electric trucks.
We have both of our charging infrastructure locations are
live as of last October. So we have charging at our home
base in Rialto and also at our yard in the Long Beach Port.
(01:10):
So we're excited for that. We're running 20 Kenworth
T680ES41, Volvo D and Rs, and westill have three of the BYD
trucks that we kind of started with back in the day.
Throughout that process, we alsobought 15 hydrogen fuel cell
trucks from Nikola. So we have a total of 79 zero
(01:30):
emission trucks right now. We're kind of in limbo with
Nikola filing bankruptcy and howthat's all going to play out.
So we're not using them much at all right now until we find out
if there's a way to support themand find a better price for
hydrogen after Nikola went under.
So that's still kind of in the works.
(01:51):
But other than that, we have I think 2 CNGS and two diesels
left in California that the planis still to have them out by the
end of 2025 and reach our goal of completely 0 emission in
California. That's great since you've made a
good deal of progress in the last couple of years.
Yes, it's as we've talked about before, it's been probably the
(02:14):
one of the the toughest, most challenging journeys that I've
ever been a part of, but also the most rewarding.
Now that we're we've kind of made it through and we're up and
running and adjusting to life with battery electric versus
diesels and the team is happy and excited.
(02:34):
And so that's all good, good news for me.
I. Wanted to ask you about this
regulatory shift we've seen thisyear with and we've seen
Congress revoking Clean Air Act waivers for California.
Now the EPA wants to stop regulating greenhouse gas
emissions all together. I'm sure you've been watching
(02:57):
all this closely. What are your thoughts?
Is it going to affect your your operations or plans in any way?
Oh, absolutely. Needless to say, you know, we
one of the major reasons we wentso aggressive so early was you
know, ACT and ACF and how that was going to affect us being a
drayage carrier, especially withyou know, not being able to
(03:20):
register anything but zero emission trucks, you know, the
ports of LA and Long Beach, We saw that as an opportunity to
get ahead of it. We went aggressive, but we also
knew there was risk. So for us, you know, definitely
not happy, but we under things understand things are a little
bit cyclical. So but the one thing I've always
(03:41):
been aggressive with is regardless of what the federal
government's doing or who's the president is, California's kind
of always beat to their own drummer anyway.
So Needless to say, the federal part of it was a little bit of a
set back for them. But catching up and talking to a
lot of people in the background there in California, and they're
(04:03):
very aggressively looking for ways to continue their drive
towards 0 emission in the state.So we always felt that was going
to be in play anyway. The Port of Long Beach has
invested so much in their zero emission strategy, reducing
their carbon footprint, that they're not changing gears.
So, but there's still a lot of grant money available from the
(04:25):
state of California for different things.
So California is doing what theycan and I think they'll continue
to refine their regulation around the ultimate goals they
want to achieve. CARB is not going away and CARB
is not changing their stance on what they want to do so might
find. Different ways to get there.
Figured out, Yeah. I'm sure, you know, you talk to
(04:47):
other fleets and you've talked, you've talked to the truck
makers and you, you know, talking to regulators.
I'm sure you're pretty plugged into everything there.
You know, kind of anything else you're hearing from your
counterparts or truck, truck makers, anything there?
From a Volvo perspective, their worldwide goals have not changed
(05:09):
regardless of who president is. So they're still very focused on
reducing their carbon footprint.So they're still very aggressive
in the, in the Bev space, but you know, they're aggressive in
some other avenues where they might start looking at a
hydrogen fuel cell truck or hydrogen combustion engine, plus
(05:30):
what they're doing with their their diesel technology to
reduce emissions. So Volvo very committed.
I haven't spent a lot of time with Kenworth to kind of see
which direction they're going now, but I'll hopefully get some
more of that information. I do know they have a new
generation truck out that I had a chance to to see and I'll be
looking at it again up in Seattle on their test track.
(05:53):
And I'm very excited about theirnext generation.
It's a complete Kenworth build from the ground up.
So we'll get a better exposure to that next week and kind of
see if there's some options there.
They're offering different battery packs, which is
important to us as far as the range goes.
So excited to get up there, spend a couple days with them
and kind of see where where they're heading from.
(06:14):
Zero emission space. What about customer demand?
What are you hearing from customers as far as are you
know, are they looking for companies to work with that have
0 emission transportation and reduce their own the scope 3
emissions carbon footprint? Well, they're definitely very
(06:37):
excited for us to deliver with 0emission trucks.
They're definitely not excited to pay us more to deliver with
right now. As everybody knows, the freight
rates are, you know, down and they've been down for a
considerable time. We're hoping to see that kind of
come back in our favor here soon.
So yes, customers love it. We do have some customers that
(07:01):
are specific because of our zeroemission trucks, not that once
again they're willing to pay more for it.
We have some others that love itwhen we deliver because it's
helping them offset their where credits that they're dealing
with from a warehouse distribution center perspective.
But until kind of freights changes and the rates go back up
(07:22):
a little bit, right now, most companies, 95% of them probably
are not open to paying more justbecause you're, you've invested
all this money in 0 emission technology.
They love it when you deliver with it, but they're not really
willing to pay more for it. So Matt, I guess how do you deal
with that? I mean, costs have gone up for
everything. Fleets, I was talking to some
(07:46):
yesterday. We're talking about tires have
gone up significantly. You know, all the costs have
gone up significantly. Rates have not gone up.
How do in so you've got the extra costs of the 0 emissions
trucks and investment. How do you, how do you, how do
you deal with that? Well, luckily going into this,
(08:09):
we were positioned very well financially as a company.
So that definitely helps. As you've probably seen, there's
been some pretty significant closures of companies, small
land, mid size and even some large ones.
I would consider that haven't been able to make it through
this little suppression of rateswe've been seeing.
(08:30):
But for us it's we're all about expense control where we can.
Of course the good news is for us we're seeing at our cost of
fuel, which is now electricity is is probably luckily we're in
California. So we have $5 diesel prices.
So when you start doing a comparison of electricity versus
(08:51):
diesel, it makes it a little easier to to see that we are
saving some money on the fuel side from the electricity.
Although the rate's in California, especially this time
of year, I mean during peak timethey're $0.51 a kilowatt from
4:00 to 9:00 PM. So we definitely try to
eliminate our charging during that time.
So but for us it's we were positioned well.
(09:12):
We have a very solid customer base.
We're definitely not making the money that we were before or we
hope to be right now, but we're still very bullish on our
commitment that we've made. There's still a lot of
organizations out there that areextremely happy that we made
that move that are supporting us.
(09:32):
And ultimately, we see this as just one of those freak
downturns. We just happen to be widely and
highly invested into 0 emission technology, but we're we're
excited to, it'll all turn in our favor and we're not turning
back. So we're not buying diesels in
California at least. We have no plans to do that.
So we're very committed to our initiative that we set forth
(09:53):
about four years ago.
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