January 9, 2025 • 41 mins
B Reeves takes us on a walk through his personal journey in recovery, revealing the raw yet rewarding path to sobriety. Growing up in Raleigh, North Carolina, B faced early exposure to substances, which set the stage for years of struggle. As B opens up about the "gift of desperation" leading to his pivotal moment of seeking help in 2018, listeners gain insight into the complex layers of addiction and the profound transformation that can occur when one commits to a life of sobriety.
In discussing the intersection of personal recovery and professional work, B addresses the critical importance of maintaining separate identities and heartfelt connections to personal recovery. He shares insights into the risks of complacency and the vital role of sustaining recovery practices like prayer, meditation, and community involvement. As we explore the journey of living recovery, B's story underscores the significance of embracing a lifestyle of awareness and continuous growth. Through his experiences, we are reminded of the profound impact of living one's recovery practice, fostering resilience, and nurturing a sense of well-being and faith.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hello folks and welcome back to Mental Health
Matters.
On WPBM 1037, the Voice ofAsheville independent
commercial-free radio, I'm ToddWeatherly, your host,
therapeutic consultant,behavioral health expert.
With me today I have acolleague and friend and fellow
golfer, mr B Reeves.
He is the Director of BusinessDevelopment at New Waters
(00:20):
Recovery, a detox and mentalhealth assessment center for
individuals seeking relief fromaddiction and mental health
disorders there in Raleigh,north Carolina.
He was born there in Raleigh,north Carolina Boy.
Once again, I'm not from faraway Greensboro, myself very
active in the local recoverycommunity.
A graduate of UNC Wilmingtonwith his degree in history, he
(00:41):
survived several lifetimes inhis recovery journey seeking
geographical cures I love thatterm in Charleston, london, new
York, before moving back toRaleigh in 2009 and getting
sober in 2018.
That's a long journey there.
Following pre-sobriety stintsas a gossip columnist, working
on film sets and software sales,bill B finally found his
(01:04):
calling in the treatment world.
Before coming to New Waters, heserved as National Clinical
Liaison for Pyramid Healthcareand that's when we met which has
programs around the country,but several right here in
Western North Carolina.
B welcome to the show, sir.
Speaker 2 (01:18):
Thank you, Todd.
Speaker 1 (01:20):
Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
Thank you, pleasure to be here.
Speaker 1 (01:23):
Yeah, yeah.
Well, you and I have known eachother a little bit.
Um, I, I I'm not going to talkabout our golf game.
Yours is better than mine, butI, you know, I'm glad to be your
muse for your best golf game.
I just want to.
Speaker 2 (01:38):
Yeah, you're definitely my.
Good luck, charm Right.
Speaker 1 (01:40):
Absolutely.
But you know I thought that youand I you and I we've trucked
in a lot of the same territory.
I might be a little older thanyou are, but you know, being in
recovery in in this communitylike being and being a person
who, who you know, struggledwith addiction and then found
(02:02):
his way through a recovery.
You know a pretty, uh, I'm sure, your story.
I mean nine years.
If you got back to the Raleigharea and it took nine years
before you truly became sober, Imean that's, that's a lot of
haunts, uh, in our area, and Iknow what the resources look
like in our area.
I know what the resources looklike in Greensboro and Chapel
(02:24):
Hill and Raleigh, durham and andand across the Piedmont, um,
and I can say that during thetime when you were getting sober
they were not that many youknow what I mean Like there
weren't places.
So I mean I I kind of love toknow if you're willing to share.
What is, what does that?
What did your recovery journeylook like in the Piedmont of
(02:46):
North Carolina when, when youknow, treatment just wasn't as
available as we see it today?
What is it?
What is it?
What was your journey look like?
What are the?
What are the secrets?
What?
How did you find your waythrough?
Speaker 2 (02:59):
Well, I'm happy to share that with you and again,
thank you for giving me theopportunity to and before, in
case I forget that last part ofyour question, the secret for me
was a gift of desperation, thegift of desperation, and so I
hope I never forget howdesperate and miserable I was
the day I walked into atreatment center in Greensboro
June 27th 2018.
(03:20):
But yeah, I mean, like mostpeople, it was a rocky road and
didn't get there on the wings ofvictory, but it started.
You know, I was born in Raleighand had a great life, had
everything I needed and prettymuch everything I ever wanted
and, you know, definitely had ahappy childhood and loving
parents.
And you know they got divorcedwhen I was eight and I look back
(03:43):
on it, not because it was someKramer versus Kramer thing, but
I, you know they did.
They got divorced when I waseight and I look back on it, not
because it was some Kramerversus Kramer thing.
But I, you know, startedmanipulating to get what I
wanted, whether that wasmaterial things or love and
attention and affection, andkind of carried that through
into my drinking and using.
And then, you know, when I'm notspiritually fit today it can
kind of creep into my life, butit's usually um tamped down
(04:04):
pretty quickly at this point.
But, but you know, it stillrears its ugly head, um.
But I, uh, you know, Iexperimented with drinking and
smoking weed when I was ineighth grade and then I went to
boarding school as a freshman inhigh school and started
drinking as much as I couldthere, which was not that often.
But that's where I first time Iremember having that sensation
(04:25):
of being warm and getting drunkand like the, when I really felt
like that freedom from when,you know, when I'm from drinking
Um.
But the really important partabout that year is I didn't do
well academically my my firstsemester, and this was 1991,
going into 1992, and doctorswere, you know, add, and ADHD
(04:46):
was a relatively new term andthey're like oh you must have
ADD or ADHD.
And I was prescribed Ritalin andI was very ashamed of you know,
because when I was a kid andgrowing up it was like if people
with the spastic kids tookRitalin and I was like, oh my
God, I got, I'm taking Ritalin.
And some seniors who live nextdoor to me I was a freshman
(05:07):
knocked on my door and said, hey, I heard you've got Ritalin.
And I was like, no, what do youmean?
And they said, we know you haveit, just bring it in here.
And they crushed it up andsnorted it and I was like, oh,
okay.
Speaker 1 (05:20):
I'm the cool guy.
Speaker 2 (05:21):
Yeah, exactly.
That never became my thing, butit was from that moment forward
.
The door was what's that?
The door opened, the dooropened and being prescribed a
Ritalin, and then that waseventually Adderall and my mood
and mine were kind of chemicallyaltered for 27 years, from 14
to 41, until I got sober.
You know that again, it wasn'tmy drug of choice, but it was
(05:44):
like I always had it, you know,and then eventually I would use
it to trade for other drugs andto sell it and abuse it.
I never took it really as asprescribed, but then I, you know
, I went to, I did well therebut then I kind of was, you know
, naughty and they told me Icouldn't come back and I went to
a different boarding school andI used the services of somebody
(06:05):
who I would say is probably oneof your predecessors, who was
an ed consultant here in Raleigh, who helped my family, my mom.
We went on like a last minutefind another boarding school
toward the summer of, I guess,1993.
And I went to another boardingschool in Connecticut, great
school, all boys, most beautifulcampus ever in Connecticut.
Great school, all boys, mostbeautiful campus ever.
(06:27):
But from that moment on, that'swhen I, when I look back,
that's when I knew that I wasnever satisfied with where I was
in life, I was always like Igot a case of the supposed to,
I'm supposed to be at this otherplace, I would be, I should be,
I would have, could have,should have.
And then you know, when I lookback, that's when I kind of
started drinking and using atand over things to kind of cover
up some, you know, perceivedinadequacy or something that you
(06:49):
know basically just yeah, andso that kind of.
I took that with me to collegeand then immediately failed out
of college because I never wentto class and the only way I knew
how to deal with it was todrink and denial.
And you know I wouldn't go toclass for two weeks, get a 0.0
because I was too lazy or, youknow, incompetent to go drop the
class.
So I'd spend the rest of thesemester knowing that my parents
(07:11):
were about to find out,pretending I was still in school
and the only way I knew how tohandle was to drink and do drugs
.
And so that was just sort ofcontinued when I was 22.
So I got two DUIs when I was 20, back to back about two months
apart.
I'd gotten drinking tickets andopen container and you know all
kinds of stuff, and I was stilljust.
(07:31):
You know I was verymanipulative back to that and
would still convince my parentsI would do better this semester.
And you know I went from a biguniversity to community college
in North Carolina State, alwayslike saying it'll be different
this time.
You know, kind of like ageographical cure.
You know, like I'm in a newschool, new place, it'll be fine
, um, and that never reallychanged.
(07:52):
And then I um this same ladywho helped me find the other
boarding school.
My mom came home one night whenI was either living at home or
just at home.
I was 22 and found like Xanax,bars and money everywhere and
she was like, oh, I was passedout under the pool table Right
Out and called this lady, youknow, and my dad.
My parents were, you know,co-parenting while they're both
(08:15):
divorced and remarried and justmy dad was like I don't think he
needs to go to rehab, let'sfigure something out.
So I went on this um walkaboutwith this Crow Indian guy in the
Bob Marshall National Forestand Glacier during October and
November and we just walked andtalked for three weeks.
And it wasn't really like a 12step thing to get me sober.
It just was like kind of jerkedme out of life.
(08:35):
You know, I remember one nightwe were sitting by a fire and it
was so cold and wet and we werewalking through rivers and
creeks and just the two of ustrailblazing, making camp,
cooking dinner and talking, andI didn't want to be there.
But I, you know, I wasparticipating.
And I remember one nightstanding by the fire and it was
shivering, and then, you know,the fire gets roaring and then
(08:57):
after a little while, you know,I was able to take a layer off,
take a hat off, take my glovesoff, and then there's a breeze,
put it back on.
He looked at me and he said youknow, it's a lot easier to stay
warm than to get warm.
And I was like okay, and I justsort of noted that and there was
some part of me that knew thatthat would come back and play
later in my life.
(09:17):
So anyway, that kind of jerkedme out of life, kind of rattled
my cage enough to get me to kindof get it together long enough,
went back to school, eventuallygraduated from UNCW, did really
well when I went back, you know, I could never really do both.
I couldn't have much of asocial life and an academic life
.
So I went back to school,graduated when I was 25.
(09:38):
Buckled down.
Speaker 1 (09:39):
What's that Buckled down?
Speaker 2 (09:45):
Yeah, buckled down and just you know, I didn't have
a lot of distractions becausemost of my friends had already
graduated and we're living inNew York and San Francisco and
DC or whatever, and Lana and Iwas just graduating, you know,
and I I did a year abroad, movedback to London, worked for this
newspaper as a gossip columnist.
So I was like, and then I start, like this friend of my dad's
somehow got me an interviewworking for the evening standard
there.
(10:05):
It was sort of like the pagesix of England and I went and
covered, like you know, society,parties and events and
interviewed Robert Downey Jr,john hurt, I mean all sorts of
people was crazy, but like itwas.
That's when this phase of mylife started.
It was like this is for you andyou and you and you, um,
(10:26):
because it looked like I wasdoing something and it looked
cool, but I was really just likekind of scared to really try
anything and just drinkingheavily and do it.
You know anything to change theway I felt, um, and then I uh,
lived in New York for a whileand worked in film and again it
was like it sounded like I wasdoing, like really doing all
this cool stuff.
I worked on the Sopranos forone day, but I have a credit for
(10:47):
working on the Sopranos and Lawand Order.
I mean, some stuff was biggerthan others, but in general I
was kind of miserable, you know,and I lived in New York with
all these people who wereinvestment bankers making all
this money and I was kind oflike had this facade of I work
(11:11):
in the film industry, which Idid, but I was afraid to really
try.
I dressed it up as afraid ofsuccess, a fear of success, but
it was really fear of everything, especially failure.
And then my brother was sickand I used his excuse to come.
His illness is an excuse tocome back to Raleigh.
But it was really like I justkind of failed out of New York,
the same way I failed out of theUniversity of Georgia and NC
State.
I was just sort of prettyUniversity of Georgia and NC
State.
I was just sort of pretty.
I was pretty helpless back then, you know, and I never wanted
any help, but I sure did wanthandouts.
(11:32):
So I was still calling myparents all the time like I need
money for this and that, andyou know I would make up some
story, some sob story.
I needed it for insurance orsomething that was an emergency,
but you know, it was reallyjust to support my lifestyle,
(11:52):
which was, you know, prettydebaucherous, um and get back to
.
Raleigh yeah, it's hell.
Yeah, it's expensive.
Yeah, yeah, living in New Yorkis, uh, you know, half employed,
addict, alcoholic is is anexpensive way to live, or try to
live.
It's not much of a life really.
I mean, I'm not one of thosepeople who had no fun out there.
Believe me, I had plenty of fun.
But the longer I'm sober, themore I realized that most of
that fun was really manufacturedfun.
Speaker 1 (12:14):
I had to have this just right and that just right,
and show up at this party and behere and drink that and stay up
late with these people and yesit's a you know better in
pictures kind of model of life,right?
Speaker 2 (12:28):
Absolutely, and it's funny you mentioned that part of
it because when I went, I wentto see fish in New York when I
was six months, sober, you know,and there's a whole story
behind that.
But I went and I had a greattime and one of my friends asked
me what was it like being soberat fish?
And my biggest takeaway was notthe you know, listen to the
music sober, or it was that Igot there before, into the seats
(12:51):
before the show started, hadfun, danced around, remembered
everything was.
You know, I was with my friendswho were not maniacs.
Speaker 1 (13:01):
You had your balloons on.
Speaker 2 (13:02):
I did.
I went to the yellow balloon.
You know during the day in NewYork and I went to the yellow
balloon, you know, right duringthe day in new york and I went
to the set break.
You know fellowship meetings,but what the real takeaway was,
kind of what you just said, is Ididn't have, I didn't feel
obligated to make sure that myfriend from raleigh was going to
meet my friend.
That I met, you know, when Iwas traveling in europe because
he's so cool and he'll love thisguy and just trying to control
(13:24):
everything, trying to make surethat the scene is just right and
it was just present with thepeople I was with.
I was going to hear the music,you know that's why I was there
Not to go, try to be like the MrParty Planner and control
everything.
You know and obviously like notbeing a mess and spending all
my money and being hung over andprobably you know the expense
of a relationship or a job orsomething.
(13:45):
You know.
That's those consequencesweren't there either.
Speaker 1 (13:48):
There's benefits, right, but you, the benefit you
got wasn't none.
You know, it wasn't the factthat there weren't consequences
on the end of it, it was apositive benefit to just bear
witness to.
Speaker 2 (14:00):
I got to be in this experience and I enjoyed myself
and I didn't need to do any ofthese things and I didn't need
to, you know, facade my life toothers exactly, exactly, and
there's a there's a line in thebig book that talks about how we
tried to be the director andthe lighting guy instead of just
being an actor and just doingour part.
(14:21):
You know, and I was alwaystrying to manipulate and control
and get everybody.
All you know, and just it wassuch a relief to not deal with
that.
So, back I moved back toRaleigh and I had some jobs.
I worked in advertising and Iwould like, you know, not show
up after a family friend got methis really coveted job at this
amazing ad agency and, just youknow, threw that away and then
(14:43):
the only way I could handle thatwas to drink and then sleep all
day and drink and do drugs andsleep all day.
Um, and that was a pattern forthe next eight years about of
like I then I'd managed to get,I was really good at getting
jobs, but doing the actual workand keeping it, that was another
matter altogether.
Um, my dad got diagnosed withcancer in 2017.
(15:06):
My brother, by the way, who'sdoing great now.
I mean, he had two forms ofcancer at the time when I used
his illness as an excuse to comeback to Raleigh.
But anyway, my dad wasdiagnosed with cancer.
I was very sad about that, butthe sort of overriding feeling
about it was nobody can questionme while I self-medicate, and
(15:26):
so I just thought that I had acarte blanche, airtight excuse
to just drink and do drugs andspent the next basically from
June to June, from 17 to 18,while my dad was sick and then
eventually died just takingboatloads of pills, and then my
drug of choice becamepainkillers and, uh, dad died at
(15:49):
the end of february of 2018.
Um, you know, and I was just.
You know, I was.
I loved my dad.
We had the same name.
We're very similar.
We're, you know, uncomfortablyclose at times, but I was also.
I was so sick with my diseasethat, like I was, it's really
all I could care about wasmyself at that time,
unfortunately, and and so I wasthings just didn't get any
(16:14):
better, and then my brother hadcome to town twice to go through
some of my dad's stuff, and Ijust lied to him one time and
another time.
I just completely missed it.
I went to bed on a Saturdaynight and woke up on Monday and
people knew I was struggling.
And then he came to town onemore, one other time.
We had dinner and I kind oftold him what was going on.
And then about two days laterthe shark started circling.
(16:36):
People started asking me for myinsurance information and you
know I always say I was probablyabout 12 hours away from an
intervention and my mom saidthere's a bed for you at place
in greensboro.
We both know I try not to nametreatment centers, but I had,
I'll name it because it'sawesome and I've been sober
since I went to fellowship hall.
It's amazing.
Speaker 1 (16:54):
Yeah, we, we both know fellowship hall and
celebrate their successes andgladly, there is a resource in
greensboro.
It's one of the few that youcan rely on, so exactly totally
cool about having them be you.
You know, show up in theinterview, but you had a good
experience at fellowship halland you came out of there in
2019.
Is that right?
Speaker 2 (17:11):
So I went there June 27th 2018.
And it wasn't my idea, but Iwent the night I got there, I
got on my knees and wept andsaid God, what have you done to
me?
And then for three days I waslike I'm leaving tomorrow, I'm
leaving tomorrow.
And then I was like I'm leavingtomorrow, I'm leaving tomorrow.
And then I was like, all right,I'm not gonna leave.
How can I make this go by fast?
And I thought about being a kidin church and when a hymn was
(17:33):
being sung, if I picked up thehymnal and sang along, it went
by fast and I could sit downagain.
But if I just stood there likethis, it would take forever.
So I just applied that to beingin treatment and I was like I
might even learn, even learnsomething.
It went by fast.
I did learn something, whichwas my way of doing things got
me there and, more importantly,I started feeling better
physically, spiritually,mentally, emotionally.
(17:53):
And I just came out of therelike completely on fire for
recovery and started going tomeetings right away.
And, like you know, they toldme to go to 90 meetings in 90
days.
I went to like 130 in 90 daysand got a sponsor and worked the
steps and started sponsoringguys and just have kept at it
ever since.
And then I you know it's funnyI've been to treatment and was
(18:18):
there for 28 days, saw thatthere were therapists and
doctors and nurses and recoveryadvocates and staff.
It never occurred to me thatthere needed to be people out
there talking about this placeand so I had an opportunity to
work for Pyramid about two yearsinto my sobriety and it's like
wait.
So the job is.
I like travel and go toconferences, get to play some
golf and talk about recovery.
(18:40):
Yeah, I think that'sinteresting.
I think I'll try that.
No-transcript.
Speaker 1 (19:17):
Say more about that.
Um, like I, you know it.
It sounds like you lived a lifeand and, whatever your work
environment was and and yourperiod of time being, you know,
using drugs and not being sober,they were enmeshed with one
(19:38):
another, Right, yeah, and nowthat a practice for you, it
sounds like, is to make surethat your work life, which is
still very much connected toyour value system.
Speaker 2 (19:52):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (19:54):
Absolutely, Because you and I have talked many times
, in some cases at length, aboutrecovery and how much you
believe in it, how much you wantto advocate for it.
Your, you know how much youbelieve in it, how much you want
to advocate for it, but to keepit separate from you know, this
kind of healthy life balance isalso a critical element for you
(20:15):
, for your recovery, and I,honestly, for all honestly, life
balance is really critical forall of us, whether we're in that
specific kind of recovery ornot, I believe.
But how did you make thatdetermination?
Where is the perspective fromthat caused you to kind of set
that boundary for yourself?
(20:37):
Where does that live in yourrecovery journey?
Speaker 2 (20:40):
That's a great question and I don't remember
exactly who said this to mefirst, but it was more than one
person.
But when I started working inthe field four and a half years
ago late summer 2020, somebodysaid to me do not let this be
your recovery.
When I started working in thisfield, and I just I got it.
I just I knew what he meant.
I didn't need any moreexplanation.
(21:00):
And so I just look at this thatI try to always say you know, I
treat my, my recovery and myjob Like I work at Sears, like I
have my job, and then I and Ihave and I have my recovery,
because if I, if I start, if mymeeting starts slacking, if I
stop calling people in, you know, I work in the field, it's fine
(21:21):
.
Speaker 1 (21:21):
If I miss this, don't do this.
Speaker 2 (21:28):
Exactly Cause that's my job, that is my.
I get paid to do that, you know.
And it's actually a reallyinteresting question because I
was at um.
This was during COVID, when Iwas interviewing for my first
job in the field and I was goingto this meeting at this guy's
house.
I actually saw him pick up 30years.
Uh, monday night his wife wouldcook us these meals and I was
right at two years sober, whenwe were reading this book called
(21:48):
Steps and Stories by thisfamous AA guy named Sandy Beach.
And there was a part in thereabout in the seventies when
treatment centers were becomingmore and more prevalent, about
what does the alcoholic do?
Is it okay for somebody to workin that field?
And I was like, oh my God, Ihadn't told these people I was
even interviewing yet.
And fortunately, you know, theysaid, yeah, as long as you know
(22:10):
it's called a two-hatter, yougot your hat, your recovery
12-step hat, and then your jobhat, you know, and so I just
have always made a reallyconcerted effort to keep them
separate.
But, like you said, the valuesare in the ash and that's fine.
But when I but if I say, hey,well, you know, I don't need to
go to this meeting tonightbecause I would pick somebody up
(22:31):
at the airport last night,that's.
That's when it gets slipperysticky sticky sticky.
Because, I mean, I'm alwaysmoving towards a drink or away
from one, you know, and sothat's just how it is.
And I mean, you know, I hopethat I never forget that and
like I'm glad you just asked meto explain it, because the more
(22:52):
I do talk about it, the lesschance there is that I'm going
to forget it, you know.
Speaker 1 (22:56):
Well, I'll tell you this and I've got a theory Um,
I'm not in recovery.
My friend myself, um, for thatis to say that I never went to
treatment.
I wouldn't necessarily putmyself in a normie category.
People who know my story.
I sold LSD to my Englishteacher and we all went to the
(23:20):
who concert when I was 17 yearsold.
So I'm not quite a normie.
I didn't have to go through atreatment experience in order to
find my way to what I wouldcall a sober and well-balanced
life.
Some days are better thanothers, right.
But the theory that I have,having worked with a lot of
individuals and been in thefield for a while, about, you
(23:41):
know folks who are in recovery.
I see this marker that happensand the marker is right around
three years.
You know the recovery.
You know we've got thesemarkers right.
Three months, six months a year.
Everybody, you know everybodysays like it's your 13 months.
More people relapse on theiryear anniversary than any other
(24:02):
time in recovery.
So you got to make it 13 months.
But then there are plenty ofpeople out there who go three
years, five years, even 10 years, and end up relapsing.
And I see three years a lot,but I've seen the others as well
, and what I notice is a lot ofthose people will pick up a role
(24:23):
that is recovery involved.
Maybe they're working in thefield, maybe they're doing a
group, maybe they become aspeaker for AA meeting, whatever
it is.
They're involving themselves inrecovery work, not just their
own personal recovery, and thenthey start to identify with it.
It's like, oh, I'm a person whodoes these things right, and
(24:52):
I'd love your insight about this, because what I think is being
a person with a master's ineducation from an education
standpoint, the best way tolearn anything is to teach it.
You want to really thoroughlylearn something, then teach it,
and so what these individualswill do is they'll get inside of
recovery work and they'll startto teach it and they'll start
(25:14):
to advocate or they'll be asponsor or they'll do any of the
number of things and they learnrecovery in 12 steps or
whatever model that they'reusing.
They'll learn their recoveryand their recovery model
incredibly well.
And then I think that they reachthe intellectual end of what
(25:35):
recovery is.
And unless you have a spiritualconnection, a connection that
lives in your heart to your ownpersonal recovery, this
intellectual connection and thisintellectual work that you've
done around it, learning what itis advocating for it, preaching
it, etc.
Will not live without thespiritual connection, without a
(25:59):
heart-based connection, and whatthey end up doing is they end
up relapsing, you know, and theyend up, or they fall off
somewhere and then they do someof the same things.
They seek geographical, youknow solutions to their recovery
, or they seek relationshipsolutions to their recovery oh,
it's my wife and I've gottendivorced and that was the reason
I needed to.
You know, whatever it is,solutions to their recovery.
Or they seek relationshipsolutions to the recovery oh,
it's, my wife and I've gottendivorced and that was the reason
(26:21):
I need to do whatever it is.
But I've seen this a lot and I'mI'm wondering for a person
who's far more steeped inrecovery and has what I would
say is an incredibly insightfulboundary that you've set for
your own recovery what do you?
Do you see that as well?
Do you have a theory about itthat's maybe nuanced from mine?
(26:45):
What would you say aboutindividuals who end up with
three, four, five, 10 years ofrecovery but relapse?
What do you think is going onthere for those individuals?
And then on the other side ofthat is what is the secret to
long term recovery.
Speaker 2 (27:01):
You just said it without saying it, what the
secret is for me.
So the start of it, we startedthis conversation, I said the
secret, in case I forget tobring to come back to it, is the
gift of desperation, that toget it going.
And so one thing I didn't tellyou about when I was at
Fellowship Hall, after I startedparticipating and started going
by fast, hearing what I neededto hear, feeling better in every
(27:24):
way physically, spiritually,mentally, emotionally I was
getting out of the shower oneday and I felt, didn't hear, but
I felt a voice tell me I wasgoing to be successful.
And I didn't take that to meanlike I'm going to be rich and
famous, I just was like overcomewith absolute, like I just felt
enveloped in in faith that Iwas going to be all right.
(27:48):
And I don't mean religiousfaith necessarily, I just mean
like I felt I was.
I just felt a voice, felt avoice telling me I was going to
be successful.
I don't know how else to say it.
That's what happened.
So then I would call that aspiritual experience.
So I had a spiritual experience.
Getting out of the shower thatday.
A few days later I did get onmy knees, the same God I'd said
(28:08):
what have you done to me?
When I got there crying, I said, god, thank you for saving me.
So then, so I had a spiritualexperience getting out of the
shower at fellowship hall,spiritual experience getting out
of the shower at fellowshiphall.
But since then I can, I've hadand continue to have a spiritual
awakening of the educationalvariety, meaning over time, by
continuing to do all the stuffI've been doing now every day.
(28:31):
For you know, I'm coming up onseven years where I pray in the
morning on my knees at night,meditate twice a day, go to
meetings, talk to people inrecovery, do readings, do
inventory, send gratitude lists,do service work.
I have a sponsor, a sponsorguys, and just trying to live a
principled life, you know, 24-7.
(28:51):
You know it doesn't alwayshappen, but I'm always trying to
, because it's pretty easy forme to behave myself for an hour
at a meeting or at work, to,because it's pretty easy for me
to behave myself for an hour ata meeting or at work, or but out
in the wild, you know, withrestaurants and flight
attendants and people who cantypically, historically, you
know, get me upset, try to stilllive a principled life.
But my point is, and to answeryour question is, I think, if
anything, I don't know so muchabout the three-year mark,
(29:14):
necessarily, or five or ten.
I know that there are all sortsof observations about people,
you know if they get five andthen, like you see, a lot of
people pick up five, but notmany six, seven, eight, nine, a
lot of 10, but I just think it'spretty simple People, people
stop doing what worked for themin those early years when they
were on fire for for recovery,and they just over time, they
(29:35):
complacent and rest on theirlaurels and then they think,
especially, the best way to, youknow, trick ourselves into
thinking we're okay is to workin a field where we talk about
this stuff all day anyway.
But this is the job, not ourpurpose, you know, right, that's
the difference, I think.
Speaker 1 (29:53):
Well, you got to live your practice.
Yeah, you know, like you know,it's true for people in mental
health recovery as well, even ifthey don't have substances
involved.
It's like you've got to liveyour recovery.
You've got a lifestyle practice.
Now you've got a condition tomanage and care for.
Um, you got to be cognizant ofit, you got to be educated about
it.
You got to take.
You know you have to have anengaged role in the life
(30:17):
practice that is your recoveryand your long-term health and
well-being.
I would say that statement'strue of anybody.
Speaker 2 (30:24):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (30:25):
The older we get, eventually we all end up with
some kind of condition we haveto manage.
The leading cause of death islife, and so somewhere in your
life you're going to deal withsomething to deal.
You're going to deal withsomething challenging and you're
going to deal with somethingthat requires you to adjust your
lifestyle and it's just, it'sjust a fact of life that comes
(30:45):
along.
I think that you knowindividuals such as yourself who
who end up in you know a a badway around substances and may do
that for a period of time.
Have that visit them unfairly.
It visits them earlier than youshould have it visit you.
(31:06):
You know you should get, youknow I I I'll say that I got my
my 20s to kind of be blueless,right and without too many hard
consequences, thank goodness,because there could have been
some but there weren't, and I'mgrateful for that.
And you know, for a person whohas to find recovery in their
early 20s, that is that's a hard, that's a hard nut to crack,
(31:33):
it's a hard card to pull and Ithink that it requires you to
gain insight about your life andyour practices and who you are
as a person.
I think it's very hard for themto to have to.
I mean, your early 20s is thistime when you're you're like
working on your identity and whoam I as a person and everything
else, and then you're likeslapped with something that
(31:55):
basically will compromise allthe work you're doing to try and
grow up and become mature anddo all those things and identify
who you are and throws you off,and if you successfully
navigate recovery in early life,like you're, a person who's
faced some lessons that mostpeople wait till they're in
their thirties or forties toface, um, so I I mean, you know
I'm I'm always impressed withthose guys, the trick that I
(32:18):
think there is to it and it kindof circles back to this theme
that we're talking about and yousee it in these guys and I
think it's something that youknow without saying it.
I've always respected andappreciated about you, but there
are a lot of forgive me forthis term, but there are a lot
of cliche recovery guys outthere.
Yeah, you know um, and you knowthere are two or three types Um
(32:43):
, some of them revolve aroundtoo many tattoos.
You know and, and, and you knowI.
I also and I'd love to I wantto hear your feedback about this
as well.
I see a lot of people inrecovery who will advertise
(33:04):
their number of years inrecovery.
You see it on Facebook.
It's been years, etc.
Etc.
And I get that.
That's an accomplishment.
I really do and I appreciate it.
I also feel like there's a,there's a.
There's a very subtle butslippery slope there in
(33:25):
identifying with a count andidentifying with a.
You know a status that revolvesaround whether it's the number
of years you've been in recoveryor or other piece of it.
Um, that if part of yourrecovery starts to live outside
of you as an evidentiary kind ofmodel, and you start to put
(33:49):
your recovery outside of you,you run the risk of losing this
personal connection to it.
And you know, I had a friend ofmine he called it metaphysical
ghosting, which I think is afascinating term, and he said
you know, you'll, you'll, you'lldo something that's personal
development wise, and you'll getto this place and your ego
(34:11):
slide right on in there and belike, hey, look at me, I'm the
greatest guy in the world, lookwhat I did.
And the moment you start to dothat, you start to lose the
connection to the real purposeof the thing that you did and
the journey that's ahead of you,because that journey never ends
right.
Your journey in recovery willbe for the rest of your life.
(34:32):
Your journey in personaldevelopment and growth,
hopefully, should you choose toaccept it, should be for the
rest of your life.
It's not something that youfinish.
What is your take on that?
What is your take on the kindof this evidentiary model of
recovery?
I've been this long.
I'm not saying that picking upchips is it, but like
advertising it to the world,what are your thoughts on that?
(34:56):
Maybe I'm off about this.
I'd love to hear somebody.
Speaker 2 (34:58):
I mean, it's a great question.
It's a you know, it's a topicthat gets talked about in the
recovery community for sure, andmy personal take on it is I
never do that.
I don't ever post anniversaries.
If I had to say why, I thinkyou know superstition would be
up there as part of the reason,but also also you know, well,
(35:21):
it's exactly.
And the reason there's thesecond a and all these programs
for anonymous is not just sopeople for personal anonymity,
so somebody you know can go bein recovery and secret.
That's kind of a, that's partof it.
But the real original reasonfor the anonymity piece is if I
go out there bragging onInstagram and Facebook that I've
got X amount of years ofsobriety and everybody sees it
(35:44):
and then I relapse, what doesthat say about recovery?
That's the original reason forthe anonymity, along with the
fact that they knew that thiswas going to be such a big deal
that they didn't have enoughpeople to actually help
everybody who needed help.
So that's why the anonymouspiece was there those two main
reasons and kind of took onanother form of that personal
anonymity later.
(36:04):
But the one positive side to itI would say is especially people
who do have solid recovery isthat we wouldn't have this
conversation about Facebookunless it existed.
And the thing is, since it doesexist, people who went to high
school with somebody and theyand this guy's struggling and he
(36:25):
sees it, he's somebody who wentto high school with.
It's been sober for 15 years.
He might be like, holy shit,that guy was a maniac.
Let me call him and see what hedid to get better.
You know that's the onepositive.
But my overall is I personallydon't do it.
I keep my anonymity sacredother than you know through work
.
I mean, look, everybody knowsI'm sober because of work, but I
don't personally postmilestones and things like that.
(36:47):
I do try to respect theconfidentiality or the, the
sacredness of the anonymity of,of the of being in recovery.
Speaker 1 (36:55):
Yeah, well, and I, you know it's kind of your, it's
your secret and in in those, inthose intimate secrets that
live with you and thank you foryou know I'm honored and I thank
you for sharing your story but,like these secrets that live
within you.
They're part of your power, andwhen you overshare them, it's
(37:15):
not that you shouldn't sharethem right, but when you
overshare them, or you, you oreven you market them right yeah,
well, it's an attention thingsometimes.
Let's be honest I mean somepeople, yeah, I mean like
totally yeah, yeah, but theylose their power exactly and and
I, I think that that's, that'sa power.
You shouldn't mess with you.
(37:36):
You know what I mean.
Um, well, you know, b, I tellyou, man, you're um, I hadn't
gotten a chance to hear, atleast to this level of the
recovery story that you have toshare, and I'm honored that you
would share it.
I think it's a, you know, onceagain, I I'm just impressed with
people's very beautiful storiesthat involve, you know,
(38:00):
struggle and tragedy and triumph, um, uh, and involve, you know,
struggle and tragedy andtriumph.
And but you know, I think thatthe people that, especially the
ones I've invited onto the show,the people that I choose to
spend time with when, wheneverwe're, you know, kind of
circling the same area If you'rein this area I'll try to find
you we try to spend some timetogether is that they live in
(38:20):
recovery with this humility.
There's a genuineness, there'sa humility to it, there's a.
You know it's my story.
I don't need it to be special,but it's mine kind of approach
to this.
I don't need it to be special,but it's mine kind of approach
to this, and I think that you'rewalking that walk, I sure, and
(38:42):
I I appreciate the fact that youdo that.
I also appreciate the verystrong work that you're doing in
the field.
And I want to thank you for yeah, I want to thank you for coming
on the show.
Speaker 2 (38:54):
Yeah Well, thank you, and I don't know if you'll put
info out there, but if anybodyever just needs help with
somebody in recovery, I'm alwaysavailable.
You can give them my cell phonenumber.
I don't know how you handlethat, but I'll link off the.
Speaker 1 (39:06):
You know New Waters, recovery and your profile and
everything else on the when Iposted on the interwebs, but
this has been WPVM 1037, thevoice of Asheville Mental Health
Matters.
I'm Todd Weatherly, your hosttoday here with Mr B Reeves B
thanks for being on the show.
Speaker 2 (39:24):
Todd, thank you so much.
Great to see you and thank youfor all that you do.
Speaker 1 (39:28):
Absolutely.
Talk to you soon.
(40:35):
Bye.
I found the elite.
I found the elite.
I found the elite.
I found the elite.
I found the elite.
I found the elite.
I found the elite.
I found the elite.
I found the elite.
I found the elite.
I found the elite.
I found the elite.
I found the elite.
I found the elite.
I found the elite.
I found the elite.
(40:56):
I found the elite.
I found the elite.
I found the elite.
I found the elite.
I found the elite.
I found the elite.
I found the elite.
I found the elite.
I found the elite.
I found.
Thank you, I'm so lonely andlost in here.
Bye.
I feel so lonely and lost inhere.
I need to find my way home.
(41:18):
I feel so lonely and lost inhere.
I need to find my way home.
Find my way home.
Hello folks and welcome back to Mental Health
Matters.
On WPBM 1037, the Voice ofAsheville independent
commercial-free radio, I'm ToddWeatherly, your host,
therapeutic consultant,behavioral health expert.
With me today I have acolleague and friend and fellow
golfer, mr B Reeves.
He is the Director of BusinessDevelopment at New Waters
(00:20):
Recovery, a detox and mentalhealth assessment center for
individuals seeking relief fromaddiction and mental health
disorders there in Raleigh,north Carolina.
He was born there in Raleigh,north Carolina Boy.
Once again, I'm not from faraway Greensboro, myself very
active in the local recoverycommunity.
A graduate of UNC Wilmingtonwith his degree in history, he
(00:41):
survived several lifetimes inhis recovery journey seeking
geographical cures I love thatterm in Charleston, london, new
York, before moving back toRaleigh in 2009 and getting
sober in 2018.
That's a long journey there.
Following pre-sobriety stintsas a gossip columnist, working
on film sets and software sales,bill B finally found his
(01:04):
calling in the treatment world.
Before coming to New Waters, heserved as National Clinical
Liaison for Pyramid Healthcareand that's when we met which has
programs around the country,but several right here in
Western North Carolina.
B welcome to the show, sir.
Speaker 2 (01:18):
Thank you, Todd.
Speaker 1 (01:20):
Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
Thank you, pleasure to be here.
Speaker 1 (01:23):
Yeah, yeah.
Well, you and I have known eachother a little bit.
Um, I, I I'm not going to talkabout our golf game.
Yours is better than mine, butI, you know, I'm glad to be your
muse for your best golf game.
I just want to.
Speaker 2 (01:38):
Yeah, you're definitely my.
Good luck, charm Right.
Speaker 1 (01:40):
Absolutely.
But you know I thought that youand I you and I we've trucked
in a lot of the same territory.
I might be a little older thanyou are, but you know, being in
recovery in in this communitylike being and being a person
who, who you know, struggledwith addiction and then found
(02:02):
his way through a recovery.
You know a pretty, uh, I'm sure, your story.
I mean nine years.
If you got back to the Raleigharea and it took nine years
before you truly became sober, Imean that's, that's a lot of
haunts, uh, in our area, and Iknow what the resources look
like in our area.
I know what the resources looklike in Greensboro and Chapel
(02:24):
Hill and Raleigh, durham and andand across the Piedmont, um,
and I can say that during thetime when you were getting sober
they were not that many youknow what I mean Like there
weren't places.
So I mean I I kind of love toknow if you're willing to share.
What is, what does that?
What did your recovery journeylook like in the Piedmont of
(02:46):
North Carolina when, when youknow, treatment just wasn't as
available as we see it today?
What is it?
What is it?
What was your journey look like?
What are the?
What are the secrets?
What?
How did you find your waythrough?
Speaker 2 (02:59):
Well, I'm happy to share that with you and again,
thank you for giving me theopportunity to and before, in
case I forget that last part ofyour question, the secret for me
was a gift of desperation, thegift of desperation, and so I
hope I never forget howdesperate and miserable I was
the day I walked into atreatment center in Greensboro
June 27th 2018.
(03:20):
But yeah, I mean, like mostpeople, it was a rocky road and
didn't get there on the wings ofvictory, but it started.
You know, I was born in Raleighand had a great life, had
everything I needed and prettymuch everything I ever wanted
and, you know, definitely had ahappy childhood and loving
parents.
And you know they got divorcedwhen I was eight and I look back
(03:43):
on it, not because it was someKramer versus Kramer thing, but
I, you know they did.
They got divorced when I waseight and I look back on it, not
because it was some Kramerversus Kramer thing.
But I, you know, startedmanipulating to get what I
wanted, whether that wasmaterial things or love and
attention and affection, andkind of carried that through
into my drinking and using.
And then, you know, when I'm notspiritually fit today it can
kind of creep into my life, butit's usually um tamped down
(04:04):
pretty quickly at this point.
But, but you know, it stillrears its ugly head, um.
But I, uh, you know, Iexperimented with drinking and
smoking weed when I was ineighth grade and then I went to
boarding school as a freshman inhigh school and started
drinking as much as I couldthere, which was not that often.
But that's where I first time Iremember having that sensation
(04:25):
of being warm and getting drunkand like the, when I really felt
like that freedom from when,you know, when I'm from drinking
Um.
But the really important partabout that year is I didn't do
well academically my my firstsemester, and this was 1991,
going into 1992, and doctorswere, you know, add, and ADHD
(04:46):
was a relatively new term andthey're like oh you must have
ADD or ADHD.
And I was prescribed Ritalin andI was very ashamed of you know,
because when I was a kid andgrowing up it was like if people
with the spastic kids tookRitalin and I was like, oh my
God, I got, I'm taking Ritalin.
And some seniors who live nextdoor to me I was a freshman
(05:07):
knocked on my door and said, hey, I heard you've got Ritalin.
And I was like, no, what do youmean?
And they said, we know you haveit, just bring it in here.
And they crushed it up andsnorted it and I was like, oh,
okay.
Speaker 1 (05:20):
I'm the cool guy.
Speaker 2 (05:21):
Yeah, exactly.
That never became my thing, butit was from that moment forward
.
The door was what's that?
The door opened, the dooropened and being prescribed a
Ritalin, and then that waseventually Adderall and my mood
and mine were kind of chemicallyaltered for 27 years, from 14
to 41, until I got sober.
You know that again, it wasn'tmy drug of choice, but it was
(05:44):
like I always had it, you know,and then eventually I would use
it to trade for other drugs andto sell it and abuse it.
I never took it really as asprescribed, but then I, you know
, I went to, I did well therebut then I kind of was, you know
, naughty and they told me Icouldn't come back and I went to
a different boarding school andI used the services of somebody
(06:05):
who I would say is probably oneof your predecessors, who was
an ed consultant here in Raleigh, who helped my family, my mom.
We went on like a last minutefind another boarding school
toward the summer of, I guess,1993.
And I went to another boardingschool in Connecticut, great
school, all boys, most beautifulcampus ever in Connecticut.
Great school, all boys, mostbeautiful campus ever.
(06:27):
But from that moment on, that'swhen I, when I look back,
that's when I knew that I wasnever satisfied with where I was
in life, I was always like Igot a case of the supposed to,
I'm supposed to be at this otherplace, I would be, I should be,
I would have, could have,should have.
And then you know, when I lookback, that's when I kind of
started drinking and using atand over things to kind of cover
up some, you know, perceivedinadequacy or something that you
(06:49):
know basically just yeah, andso that kind of.
I took that with me to collegeand then immediately failed out
of college because I never wentto class and the only way I knew
how to deal with it was todrink and denial.
And you know I wouldn't go toclass for two weeks, get a 0.0
because I was too lazy or, youknow, incompetent to go drop the
class.
So I'd spend the rest of thesemester knowing that my parents
(07:11):
were about to find out,pretending I was still in school
and the only way I knew how tohandle was to drink and do drugs
.
And so that was just sort ofcontinued when I was 22.
So I got two DUIs when I was 20, back to back about two months
apart.
I'd gotten drinking tickets andopen container and you know all
kinds of stuff, and I was stilljust.
(07:31):
You know I was verymanipulative back to that and
would still convince my parentsI would do better this semester.
And you know I went from a biguniversity to community college
in North Carolina State, alwayslike saying it'll be different
this time.
You know, kind of like ageographical cure.
You know, like I'm in a newschool, new place, it'll be fine
, um, and that never reallychanged.
(07:52):
And then I um this same ladywho helped me find the other
boarding school.
My mom came home one night whenI was either living at home or
just at home.
I was 22 and found like Xanax,bars and money everywhere and
she was like, oh, I was passedout under the pool table Right
Out and called this lady, youknow, and my dad.
My parents were, you know,co-parenting while they're both
(08:15):
divorced and remarried and justmy dad was like I don't think he
needs to go to rehab, let'sfigure something out.
So I went on this um walkaboutwith this Crow Indian guy in the
Bob Marshall National Forestand Glacier during October and
November and we just walked andtalked for three weeks.
And it wasn't really like a 12step thing to get me sober.
It just was like kind of jerkedme out of life.
(08:35):
You know, I remember one nightwe were sitting by a fire and it
was so cold and wet and we werewalking through rivers and
creeks and just the two of ustrailblazing, making camp,
cooking dinner and talking, andI didn't want to be there.
But I, you know, I wasparticipating.
And I remember one nightstanding by the fire and it was
shivering, and then, you know,the fire gets roaring and then
(08:57):
after a little while, you know,I was able to take a layer off,
take a hat off, take my glovesoff, and then there's a breeze,
put it back on.
He looked at me and he said youknow, it's a lot easier to stay
warm than to get warm.
And I was like okay, and I justsort of noted that and there was
some part of me that knew thatthat would come back and play
later in my life.
(09:17):
So anyway, that kind of jerkedme out of life, kind of rattled
my cage enough to get me to kindof get it together long enough,
went back to school, eventuallygraduated from UNCW, did really
well when I went back, you know, I could never really do both.
I couldn't have much of asocial life and an academic life
.
So I went back to school,graduated when I was 25.
(09:38):
Buckled down.
Speaker 1 (09:39):
What's that Buckled down?
Speaker 2 (09:45):
Yeah, buckled down and just you know, I didn't have
a lot of distractions becausemost of my friends had already
graduated and we're living inNew York and San Francisco and
DC or whatever, and Lana and Iwas just graduating, you know,
and I I did a year abroad, movedback to London, worked for this
newspaper as a gossip columnist.
So I was like, and then I start, like this friend of my dad's
somehow got me an interviewworking for the evening standard
there.
(10:05):
It was sort of like the pagesix of England and I went and
covered, like you know, society,parties and events and
interviewed Robert Downey Jr,john hurt, I mean all sorts of
people was crazy, but like itwas.
That's when this phase of mylife started.
It was like this is for you andyou and you and you, um,
(10:26):
because it looked like I wasdoing something and it looked
cool, but I was really just likekind of scared to really try
anything and just drinkingheavily and do it.
You know anything to change theway I felt, um, and then I uh,
lived in New York for a whileand worked in film and again it
was like it sounded like I wasdoing, like really doing all
this cool stuff.
I worked on the Sopranos forone day, but I have a credit for
(10:47):
working on the Sopranos and Lawand Order.
I mean, some stuff was biggerthan others, but in general I
was kind of miserable, you know,and I lived in New York with
all these people who wereinvestment bankers making all
this money and I was kind oflike had this facade of I work
(11:11):
in the film industry, which Idid, but I was afraid to really
try.
I dressed it up as afraid ofsuccess, a fear of success, but
it was really fear of everything, especially failure.
And then my brother was sickand I used his excuse to come.
His illness is an excuse tocome back to Raleigh.
But it was really like I justkind of failed out of New York,
the same way I failed out of theUniversity of Georgia and NC
State.
I was just sort of prettyUniversity of Georgia and NC
State.
I was just sort of pretty.
I was pretty helpless back then, you know, and I never wanted
any help, but I sure did wanthandouts.
(11:32):
So I was still calling myparents all the time like I need
money for this and that, andyou know I would make up some
story, some sob story.
I needed it for insurance orsomething that was an emergency,
but you know, it was reallyjust to support my lifestyle,
(11:52):
which was, you know, prettydebaucherous, um and get back to
.
Raleigh yeah, it's hell.
Yeah, it's expensive.
Yeah, yeah, living in New Yorkis, uh, you know, half employed,
addict, alcoholic is is anexpensive way to live, or try to
live.
It's not much of a life really.
I mean, I'm not one of thosepeople who had no fun out there.
Believe me, I had plenty of fun.
But the longer I'm sober, themore I realized that most of
that fun was really manufacturedfun.
Speaker 1 (12:14):
I had to have this just right and that just right,
and show up at this party and behere and drink that and stay up
late with these people and yesit's a you know better in
pictures kind of model of life,right?
Speaker 2 (12:28):
Absolutely, and it's funny you mentioned that part of
it because when I went, I wentto see fish in New York when I
was six months, sober, you know,and there's a whole story
behind that.
But I went and I had a greattime and one of my friends asked
me what was it like being soberat fish?
And my biggest takeaway was notthe you know, listen to the
music sober, or it was that Igot there before, into the seats
(12:51):
before the show started, hadfun, danced around, remembered
everything was.
You know, I was with my friendswho were not maniacs.
Speaker 1 (13:01):
You had your balloons on.
Speaker 2 (13:02):
I did.
I went to the yellow balloon.
You know during the day in NewYork and I went to the yellow
balloon, you know, right duringthe day in new york and I went
to the set break.
You know fellowship meetings,but what the real takeaway was,
kind of what you just said, is Ididn't have, I didn't feel
obligated to make sure that myfriend from raleigh was going to
meet my friend.
That I met, you know, when Iwas traveling in europe because
he's so cool and he'll love thisguy and just trying to control
(13:24):
everything, trying to make surethat the scene is just right and
it was just present with thepeople I was with.
I was going to hear the music,you know that's why I was there
Not to go, try to be like the MrParty Planner and control
everything.
You know and obviously like notbeing a mess and spending all
my money and being hung over andprobably you know the expense
of a relationship or a job orsomething.
(13:45):
You know.
That's those consequencesweren't there either.
Speaker 1 (13:48):
There's benefits, right, but you, the benefit you
got wasn't none.
You know, it wasn't the factthat there weren't consequences
on the end of it, it was apositive benefit to just bear
witness to.
Speaker 2 (14:00):
I got to be in this experience and I enjoyed myself
and I didn't need to do any ofthese things and I didn't need
to, you know, facade my life toothers exactly, exactly, and
there's a there's a line in thebig book that talks about how we
tried to be the director andthe lighting guy instead of just
being an actor and just doingour part.
(14:21):
You know, and I was alwaystrying to manipulate and control
and get everybody.
All you know, and just it wassuch a relief to not deal with
that.
So, back I moved back toRaleigh and I had some jobs.
I worked in advertising and Iwould like, you know, not show
up after a family friend got methis really coveted job at this
amazing ad agency and, just youknow, threw that away and then
(14:43):
the only way I could handle thatwas to drink and then sleep all
day and drink and do drugs andsleep all day.
Um, and that was a pattern forthe next eight years about of
like I then I'd managed to get,I was really good at getting
jobs, but doing the actual workand keeping it, that was another
matter altogether.
Um, my dad got diagnosed withcancer in 2017.
(15:06):
My brother, by the way, who'sdoing great now.
I mean, he had two forms ofcancer at the time when I used
his illness as an excuse to comeback to Raleigh.
But anyway, my dad wasdiagnosed with cancer.
I was very sad about that, butthe sort of overriding feeling
about it was nobody can questionme while I self-medicate, and
(15:26):
so I just thought that I had acarte blanche, airtight excuse
to just drink and do drugs andspent the next basically from
June to June, from 17 to 18,while my dad was sick and then
eventually died just takingboatloads of pills, and then my
drug of choice becamepainkillers and, uh, dad died at
(15:49):
the end of february of 2018.
Um, you know, and I was just.
You know, I was.
I loved my dad.
We had the same name.
We're very similar.
We're, you know, uncomfortablyclose at times, but I was also.
I was so sick with my diseasethat, like I was, it's really
all I could care about wasmyself at that time,
unfortunately, and and so I wasthings just didn't get any
(16:14):
better, and then my brother hadcome to town twice to go through
some of my dad's stuff, and Ijust lied to him one time and
another time.
I just completely missed it.
I went to bed on a Saturdaynight and woke up on Monday and
people knew I was struggling.
And then he came to town onemore, one other time.
We had dinner and I kind oftold him what was going on.
And then about two days laterthe shark started circling.
(16:36):
People started asking me for myinsurance information and you
know I always say I was probablyabout 12 hours away from an
intervention and my mom saidthere's a bed for you at place
in greensboro.
We both know I try not to nametreatment centers, but I had,
I'll name it because it'sawesome and I've been sober
since I went to fellowship hall.
It's amazing.
Speaker 1 (16:54):
Yeah, we, we both know fellowship hall and
celebrate their successes andgladly, there is a resource in
greensboro.
It's one of the few that youcan rely on, so exactly totally
cool about having them be you.
You know, show up in theinterview, but you had a good
experience at fellowship halland you came out of there in
2019.
Is that right?
Speaker 2 (17:11):
So I went there June 27th 2018.
And it wasn't my idea, but Iwent the night I got there, I
got on my knees and wept andsaid God, what have you done to
me?
And then for three days I waslike I'm leaving tomorrow, I'm
leaving tomorrow.
And then I was like I'm leavingtomorrow, I'm leaving tomorrow.
And then I was like, all right,I'm not gonna leave.
How can I make this go by fast?
And I thought about being a kidin church and when a hymn was
(17:33):
being sung, if I picked up thehymnal and sang along, it went
by fast and I could sit downagain.
But if I just stood there likethis, it would take forever.
So I just applied that to beingin treatment and I was like I
might even learn, even learnsomething.
It went by fast.
I did learn something, whichwas my way of doing things got
me there and, more importantly,I started feeling better
physically, spiritually,mentally, emotionally.
(17:53):
And I just came out of therelike completely on fire for
recovery and started going tomeetings right away.
And, like you know, they toldme to go to 90 meetings in 90
days.
I went to like 130 in 90 daysand got a sponsor and worked the
steps and started sponsoringguys and just have kept at it
ever since.
And then I you know it's funnyI've been to treatment and was
(18:18):
there for 28 days, saw thatthere were therapists and
doctors and nurses and recoveryadvocates and staff.
It never occurred to me thatthere needed to be people out
there talking about this placeand so I had an opportunity to
work for Pyramid about two yearsinto my sobriety and it's like
wait.
So the job is.
I like travel and go toconferences, get to play some
golf and talk about recovery.
(18:40):
Yeah, I think that'sinteresting.
I think I'll try that.
No-transcript.
Speaker 1 (19:17):
Say more about that.
Um, like I, you know it.
It sounds like you lived a lifeand and, whatever your work
environment was and and yourperiod of time being, you know,
using drugs and not being sober,they were enmeshed with one
(19:38):
another, Right, yeah, and nowthat a practice for you, it
sounds like, is to make surethat your work life, which is
still very much connected toyour value system.
Speaker 2 (19:52):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (19:54):
Absolutely, Because you and I have talked many times
, in some cases at length, aboutrecovery and how much you
believe in it, how much you wantto advocate for it.
Your, you know how much youbelieve in it, how much you want
to advocate for it, but to keepit separate from you know, this
kind of healthy life balance isalso a critical element for you
(20:15):
, for your recovery, and I,honestly, for all honestly, life
balance is really critical forall of us, whether we're in that
specific kind of recovery ornot, I believe.
But how did you make thatdetermination?
Where is the perspective fromthat caused you to kind of set
that boundary for yourself?
(20:37):
Where does that live in yourrecovery journey?
Speaker 2 (20:40):
That's a great question and I don't remember
exactly who said this to mefirst, but it was more than one
person.
But when I started working inthe field four and a half years
ago late summer 2020, somebodysaid to me do not let this be
your recovery.
When I started working in thisfield, and I just I got it.
I just I knew what he meant.
I didn't need any moreexplanation.
(21:00):
And so I just look at this thatI try to always say you know, I
treat my, my recovery and myjob Like I work at Sears, like I
have my job, and then I and Ihave and I have my recovery,
because if I, if I start, if mymeeting starts slacking, if I
stop calling people in, you know, I work in the field, it's fine
(21:21):
.
Speaker 1 (21:21):
If I miss this, don't do this.
Speaker 2 (21:28):
Exactly Cause that's my job, that is my.
I get paid to do that, you know.
And it's actually a reallyinteresting question because I
was at um.
This was during COVID, when Iwas interviewing for my first
job in the field and I was goingto this meeting at this guy's
house.
I actually saw him pick up 30years.
Uh, monday night his wife wouldcook us these meals and I was
right at two years sober, whenwe were reading this book called
(21:48):
Steps and Stories by thisfamous AA guy named Sandy Beach.
And there was a part in thereabout in the seventies when
treatment centers were becomingmore and more prevalent, about
what does the alcoholic do?
Is it okay for somebody to workin that field?
And I was like, oh my God, Ihadn't told these people I was
even interviewing yet.
And fortunately, you know, theysaid, yeah, as long as you know
(22:10):
it's called a two-hatter, yougot your hat, your recovery
12-step hat, and then your jobhat, you know, and so I just
have always made a reallyconcerted effort to keep them
separate.
But, like you said, the valuesare in the ash and that's fine.
But when I but if I say, hey,well, you know, I don't need to
go to this meeting tonightbecause I would pick somebody up
(22:31):
at the airport last night,that's.
That's when it gets slipperysticky sticky sticky.
Because, I mean, I'm alwaysmoving towards a drink or away
from one, you know, and sothat's just how it is.
And I mean, you know, I hopethat I never forget that and
like I'm glad you just asked meto explain it, because the more
(22:52):
I do talk about it, the lesschance there is that I'm going
to forget it, you know.
Speaker 1 (22:56):
Well, I'll tell you this and I've got a theory Um,
I'm not in recovery.
My friend myself, um, for thatis to say that I never went to
treatment.
I wouldn't necessarily putmyself in a normie category.
People who know my story.
I sold LSD to my Englishteacher and we all went to the
(23:20):
who concert when I was 17 yearsold.
So I'm not quite a normie.
I didn't have to go through atreatment experience in order to
find my way to what I wouldcall a sober and well-balanced
life.
Some days are better thanothers, right.
But the theory that I have,having worked with a lot of
individuals and been in thefield for a while, about, you
(23:41):
know folks who are in recovery.
I see this marker that happensand the marker is right around
three years.
You know the recovery.
You know we've got thesemarkers right.
Three months, six months a year.
Everybody, you know everybodysays like it's your 13 months.
More people relapse on theiryear anniversary than any other
(24:02):
time in recovery.
So you got to make it 13 months.
But then there are plenty ofpeople out there who go three
years, five years, even 10 years, and end up relapsing.
And I see three years a lot,but I've seen the others as well
, and what I notice is a lot ofthose people will pick up a role
(24:23):
that is recovery involved.
Maybe they're working in thefield, maybe they're doing a
group, maybe they become aspeaker for AA meeting, whatever
it is.
They're involving themselves inrecovery work, not just their
own personal recovery, and thenthey start to identify with it.
It's like, oh, I'm a person whodoes these things right, and
(24:52):
I'd love your insight about this, because what I think is being
a person with a master's ineducation from an education
standpoint, the best way tolearn anything is to teach it.
You want to really thoroughlylearn something, then teach it,
and so what these individualswill do is they'll get inside of
recovery work and they'll startto teach it and they'll start
(25:14):
to advocate or they'll be asponsor or they'll do any of the
number of things and they learnrecovery in 12 steps or
whatever model that they'reusing.
They'll learn their recoveryand their recovery model
incredibly well.
And then I think that they reachthe intellectual end of what
(25:35):
recovery is.
And unless you have a spiritualconnection, a connection that
lives in your heart to your ownpersonal recovery, this
intellectual connection and thisintellectual work that you've
done around it, learning what itis advocating for it, preaching
it, etc.
Will not live without thespiritual connection, without a
(25:59):
heart-based connection, and whatthey end up doing is they end
up relapsing, you know, and theyend up, or they fall off
somewhere and then they do someof the same things.
They seek geographical, youknow solutions to their recovery
, or they seek relationshipsolutions to their recovery oh,
it's my wife and I've gottendivorced and that was the reason
I needed to.
You know, whatever it is,solutions to their recovery.
Or they seek relationshipsolutions to the recovery oh,
it's, my wife and I've gottendivorced and that was the reason
(26:21):
I need to do whatever it is.
But I've seen this a lot and I'mI'm wondering for a person
who's far more steeped inrecovery and has what I would
say is an incredibly insightfulboundary that you've set for
your own recovery what do you?
Do you see that as well?
Do you have a theory about itthat's maybe nuanced from mine?
(26:45):
What would you say aboutindividuals who end up with
three, four, five, 10 years ofrecovery but relapse?
What do you think is going onthere for those individuals?
And then on the other side ofthat is what is the secret to
long term recovery.
Speaker 2 (27:01):
You just said it without saying it, what the
secret is for me.
So the start of it, we startedthis conversation, I said the
secret, in case I forget tobring to come back to it, is the
gift of desperation, that toget it going.
And so one thing I didn't tellyou about when I was at
Fellowship Hall, after I startedparticipating and started going
by fast, hearing what I neededto hear, feeling better in every
(27:24):
way physically, spiritually,mentally, emotionally I was
getting out of the shower oneday and I felt, didn't hear, but
I felt a voice tell me I wasgoing to be successful.
And I didn't take that to meanlike I'm going to be rich and
famous, I just was like overcomewith absolute, like I just felt
enveloped in in faith that Iwas going to be all right.
(27:48):
And I don't mean religiousfaith necessarily, I just mean
like I felt I was.
I just felt a voice, felt avoice telling me I was going to
be successful.
I don't know how else to say it.
That's what happened.
So then I would call that aspiritual experience.
So I had a spiritual experience.
Getting out of the shower thatday.
A few days later I did get onmy knees, the same God I'd said
(28:08):
what have you done to me?
When I got there crying, I said, god, thank you for saving me.
So then, so I had a spiritualexperience getting out of the
shower at fellowship hall,spiritual experience getting out
of the shower at fellowshiphall.
But since then I can, I've hadand continue to have a spiritual
awakening of the educationalvariety, meaning over time, by
continuing to do all the stuffI've been doing now every day.
(28:31):
For you know, I'm coming up onseven years where I pray in the
morning on my knees at night,meditate twice a day, go to
meetings, talk to people inrecovery, do readings, do
inventory, send gratitude lists,do service work.
I have a sponsor, a sponsorguys, and just trying to live a
principled life, you know, 24-7.
(28:51):
You know it doesn't alwayshappen, but I'm always trying to
, because it's pretty easy forme to behave myself for an hour
at a meeting or at work, to,because it's pretty easy for me
to behave myself for an hour ata meeting or at work, or but out
in the wild, you know, withrestaurants and flight
attendants and people who cantypically, historically, you
know, get me upset, try to stilllive a principled life.
But my point is, and to answeryour question is, I think, if
anything, I don't know so muchabout the three-year mark,
(29:14):
necessarily, or five or ten.
I know that there are all sortsof observations about people,
you know if they get five andthen, like you see, a lot of
people pick up five, but notmany six, seven, eight, nine, a
lot of 10, but I just think it'spretty simple People, people
stop doing what worked for themin those early years when they
were on fire for for recovery,and they just over time, they
(29:35):
complacent and rest on theirlaurels and then they think,
especially, the best way to, youknow, trick ourselves into
thinking we're okay is to workin a field where we talk about
this stuff all day anyway.
But this is the job, not ourpurpose, you know, right, that's
the difference, I think.
Speaker 1 (29:53):
Well, you got to live your practice.
Yeah, you know, like you know,it's true for people in mental
health recovery as well, even ifthey don't have substances
involved.
It's like you've got to liveyour recovery.
You've got a lifestyle practice.
Now you've got a condition tomanage and care for.
Um, you got to be cognizant ofit, you got to be educated about
it.
You got to take.
You know you have to have anengaged role in the life
(30:17):
practice that is your recoveryand your long-term health and
well-being.
I would say that statement'strue of anybody.
Speaker 2 (30:24):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (30:25):
The older we get, eventually we all end up with
some kind of condition we haveto manage.
The leading cause of death islife, and so somewhere in your
life you're going to deal withsomething to deal.
You're going to deal withsomething challenging and you're
going to deal with somethingthat requires you to adjust your
lifestyle and it's just, it'sjust a fact of life that comes
(30:45):
along.
I think that you knowindividuals such as yourself who
who end up in you know a a badway around substances and may do
that for a period of time.
Have that visit them unfairly.
It visits them earlier than youshould have it visit you.
(31:06):
You know you should get, youknow I I I'll say that I got my
my 20s to kind of be blueless,right and without too many hard
consequences, thank goodness,because there could have been
some but there weren't, and I'mgrateful for that.
And you know, for a person whohas to find recovery in their
early 20s, that is that's a hard, that's a hard nut to crack,
(31:33):
it's a hard card to pull and Ithink that it requires you to
gain insight about your life andyour practices and who you are
as a person.
I think it's very hard for themto to have to.
I mean, your early 20s is thistime when you're you're like
working on your identity and whoam I as a person and everything
else, and then you're likeslapped with something that
(31:55):
basically will compromise allthe work you're doing to try and
grow up and become mature anddo all those things and identify
who you are and throws you off,and if you successfully
navigate recovery in early life,like you're, a person who's
faced some lessons that mostpeople wait till they're in
their thirties or forties toface, um, so I I mean, you know
I'm I'm always impressed withthose guys, the trick that I
(32:18):
think there is to it and it kindof circles back to this theme
that we're talking about and yousee it in these guys and I
think it's something that youknow without saying it.
I've always respected andappreciated about you, but there
are a lot of forgive me forthis term, but there are a lot
of cliche recovery guys outthere.
Yeah, you know um, and you knowthere are two or three types Um
(32:43):
, some of them revolve aroundtoo many tattoos.
You know and, and, and you knowI.
I also and I'd love to I wantto hear your feedback about this
as well.
I see a lot of people inrecovery who will advertise
(33:04):
their number of years inrecovery.
You see it on Facebook.
It's been years, etc.
Etc.
And I get that.
That's an accomplishment.
I really do and I appreciate it.
I also feel like there's a,there's a.
There's a very subtle butslippery slope there in
(33:25):
identifying with a count andidentifying with a.
You know a status that revolvesaround whether it's the number
of years you've been in recoveryor or other piece of it.
Um, that if part of yourrecovery starts to live outside
of you as an evidentiary kind ofmodel, and you start to put
(33:49):
your recovery outside of you,you run the risk of losing this
personal connection to it.
And you know, I had a friend ofmine he called it metaphysical
ghosting, which I think is afascinating term, and he said
you know, you'll, you'll, you'lldo something that's personal
development wise, and you'll getto this place and your ego
(34:11):
slide right on in there and belike, hey, look at me, I'm the
greatest guy in the world, lookwhat I did.
And the moment you start to dothat, you start to lose the
connection to the real purposeof the thing that you did and
the journey that's ahead of you,because that journey never ends
right.
Your journey in recovery willbe for the rest of your life.
(34:32):
Your journey in personaldevelopment and growth,
hopefully, should you choose toaccept it, should be for the
rest of your life.
It's not something that youfinish.
What is your take on that?
What is your take on the kindof this evidentiary model of
recovery?
I've been this long.
I'm not saying that picking upchips is it, but like
advertising it to the world,what are your thoughts on that?
(34:56):
Maybe I'm off about this.
I'd love to hear somebody.
Speaker 2 (34:58):
I mean, it's a great question.
It's a you know, it's a topicthat gets talked about in the
recovery community for sure, andmy personal take on it is I
never do that.
I don't ever post anniversaries.
If I had to say why, I thinkyou know superstition would be
up there as part of the reason,but also also you know, well,
(35:21):
it's exactly.
And the reason there's thesecond a and all these programs
for anonymous is not just sopeople for personal anonymity,
so somebody you know can go bein recovery and secret.
That's kind of a, that's partof it.
But the real original reasonfor the anonymity piece is if I
go out there bragging onInstagram and Facebook that I've
got X amount of years ofsobriety and everybody sees it
(35:44):
and then I relapse, what doesthat say about recovery?
That's the original reason forthe anonymity, along with the
fact that they knew that thiswas going to be such a big deal
that they didn't have enoughpeople to actually help
everybody who needed help.
So that's why the anonymouspiece was there those two main
reasons and kind of took onanother form of that personal
anonymity later.
(36:04):
But the one positive side to itI would say is especially people
who do have solid recovery isthat we wouldn't have this
conversation about Facebookunless it existed.
And the thing is, since it doesexist, people who went to high
school with somebody and theyand this guy's struggling and he
(36:25):
sees it, he's somebody who wentto high school with.
It's been sober for 15 years.
He might be like, holy shit,that guy was a maniac.
Let me call him and see what hedid to get better.
You know that's the onepositive.
But my overall is I personallydon't do it.
I keep my anonymity sacredother than you know through work
.
I mean, look, everybody knowsI'm sober because of work, but I
don't personally postmilestones and things like that.
(36:47):
I do try to respect theconfidentiality or the, the
sacredness of the anonymity of,of the of being in recovery.
Speaker 1 (36:55):
Yeah, well, and I, you know it's kind of your, it's
your secret and in in those, inthose intimate secrets that
live with you and thank you foryou know I'm honored and I thank
you for sharing your story but,like these secrets that live
within you.
They're part of your power, andwhen you overshare them, it's
(37:15):
not that you shouldn't sharethem right, but when you
overshare them, or you, you oreven you market them right yeah,
well, it's an attention thingsometimes.
Let's be honest I mean somepeople, yeah, I mean like
totally yeah, yeah, but theylose their power exactly and and
I, I think that that's, that'sa power.
You shouldn't mess with you.
(37:36):
You know what I mean.
Um, well, you know, b, I tellyou, man, you're um, I hadn't
gotten a chance to hear, atleast to this level of the
recovery story that you have toshare, and I'm honored that you
would share it.
I think it's a, you know, onceagain, I I'm just impressed with
people's very beautiful storiesthat involve, you know,
(38:00):
struggle and tragedy and triumph, um, uh, and involve, you know,
struggle and tragedy andtriumph.
And but you know, I think thatthe people that, especially the
ones I've invited onto the show,the people that I choose to
spend time with when, wheneverwe're, you know, kind of
circling the same area If you'rein this area I'll try to find
you we try to spend some timetogether is that they live in
(38:20):
recovery with this humility.
There's a genuineness, there'sa humility to it, there's a.
You know it's my story.
I don't need it to be special,but it's mine kind of approach
to this.
I don't need it to be special,but it's mine kind of approach
to this, and I think that you'rewalking that walk, I sure, and
(38:42):
I I appreciate the fact that youdo that.
I also appreciate the verystrong work that you're doing in
the field.
And I want to thank you for yeah, I want to thank you for coming
on the show.
Speaker 2 (38:54):
Yeah Well, thank you, and I don't know if you'll put
info out there, but if anybodyever just needs help with
somebody in recovery, I'm alwaysavailable.
You can give them my cell phonenumber.
I don't know how you handlethat, but I'll link off the.
Speaker 1 (39:06):
You know New Waters, recovery and your profile and
everything else on the when Iposted on the interwebs, but
this has been WPVM 1037, thevoice of Asheville Mental Health
Matters.
I'm Todd Weatherly, your hosttoday here with Mr B Reeves B
thanks for being on the show.
Speaker 2 (39:24):
Todd, thank you so much.
Great to see you and thank youfor all that you do.
Speaker 1 (39:28):
Absolutely.
Talk to you soon.
(40:35):
Bye.
I found the elite.
I found the elite.
I found the elite.
I found the elite.
I found the elite.
I found the elite.
I found the elite.
I found the elite.
I found the elite.
I found the elite.
I found the elite.
I found the elite.
I found the elite.
I found the elite.
I found the elite.
I found the elite.
(40:56):
I found the elite.
I found the elite.
I found the elite.
I found the elite.
I found the elite.
I found the elite.
I found the elite.
I found the elite.
I found the elite.
I found.
Thank you, I'm so lonely andlost in here.
Bye.
I feel so lonely and lost inhere.
I need to find my way home.
(41:18):
I feel so lonely and lost inhere.
I need to find my way home.
Find my way home.
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