May 26, 2025 • 34 mins
When David McNeese sought treatment for his own substance use in 2012, he had no idea it would lead him to pioneer an innovative recovery program that challenges traditional approaches. What began as a passion project with no financial backing—literally living in the basement of their first recovery house—has evolved into a sophisticated clinical program incorporating adventure therapy, martial arts, and holistic approaches alongside traditional therapeutic support.
David and his team blend Brazilian jiu-jitsu, hiking, rock climbing and other physical activities with clinical work, creating powerful metaphors for recovery. The conversation delves into how recovery programs must evolve to meet changing needs, offering multiple pathways beyond traditional 12-step approaches. David's philosophy embraces personalization and flexibility.
For anyone interested in innovative approaches to recovery, supporting young adults through life transformation, or understanding how experiential therapy creates lasting change, this episode offers authentic insights from someone who's built a program from the ground up.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hello folks, thanks again for joining us on Head
Inside Mental Health, featuringconversations about mental
health and substance usetreatment, with experts from
across the country sharing theirthoughts and insights on the
world of behavioral health care,broadcasting on WPBM 1037, the
voice of Asheville independentcommercial free radio.
I'm Todd Weatherly, your host,therapeutic consultant and
(00:21):
behavioral health expert metoday.
It took me a while to get him,but I am happy to have a
longtime friend, recoveryadvocate, recovery professional,
david McNeese.
David is the executive directorof Greenville Transitions, a
supported sober living programthat provides recovery and peer
support services includingindividual and family therapy,
(00:43):
case management, medicationmanagement, adventure therapy,
and also has a partialhospitalization program and an
intensive outpatient program foryoung adult men.
They serve there in Greenville,south Carolina.
David's been in recovery since2012.
Did I get that right, dave?
Yeah, when he first soughttreatment for himself as a young
(01:03):
adult, I met David a decade agonow.
Can you believe that?
Speaker 2 (01:09):
It's a while.
Speaker 1 (01:10):
It's a while Working as a house manager for the
recovery program we had at FourCircles.
The Four Circles was atreatment center and had a men's
recovery program or transitionprogram as well as a women's,
and David was the house managerthere for a little while.
He had to put up with me as hisboss for a minute, but since
(01:31):
then he has become a pioneer inthe recovery field as both
founder and executive director,ceo of his program there in
Greenville.
Now for eight years I've beenworking with Greensville
Transitions and growing thatteam there and building the
program.
I remember when you started outand you were, you know it was
just as you found this home inGreenville and you started what
(01:55):
was was kind of a basic soberhome and then and then there was
like well, you know, we wantsome clinical in for our guys.
So you started partnering withpeople and doing the IOP thing
and you're like you know what?
I think we can do this betterthan they can actually.
And you know, as the years wentby, you know an IOP turned into
a PHP, a partialhospitalization program.
(02:16):
So you know, for a guy whostarted off as a house manager
and more or less fresh out ofrecovery, turning it around into
one of the more clinicallysophisticated sober programs
that we have in the Southeast.
I think that's pretty cool.
Like you know, tell me aboutthat journey.
Man.
(02:37):
Like just you know, you and Ihave known each other a while.
I mean I think we've touched onit at times.
But I've met your staff andI've been able to hang out with
you guys and we've workedtogether with some clients and
everything else.
But like I've never gotten thepoint by point journey as you
saw it from your perspective.
Like I kind of know what causedyou to open the place.
(03:00):
But what's this journey beenlike for you?
Speaker 2 (03:03):
Yeah, yeah, and there's a lot to unpack there,
so I'll try to get a streamlinedversion, and first I just want
to thank you for having me on,and it's awesome to be here and
talking with you, someone that Irespect and know from the
community and I've worked within the past, so thanks again,
it's great to have you,absolutely Great to have you.
(03:24):
But, yeah, to go into GreenvilleTransitions.
How it got started, you knowhow it started was a guy
struggling with addiction andsubstance use disorder and
people helping him through that,and then me wanting to turn
around and give back and say,hey, you know what?
I think that I could be good atdoing this and helping others
(03:44):
through this hard part of lifeif they've entered it.
So I'd like to try my hand atit and I would like to bring in
the name of my business partner,lucas Coleman-Socia, who's our
COO.
A lot of this was a dual journeywhere he took his experience.
I took my experience fromgetting sober at a young age,
(04:05):
combining those and trying tobuild what we thought could be
the best program for a youngadult male entering into a
lifestyle of recovery.
Right, um, and and man, when westarted it was like the wild
west.
I mean, many, many people don'tknow the the very beginning.
Um, and I think when a lot ofprograms start, they have a lot
(04:27):
of money backing them or theyhave investors come in and help
them build out a program andbuild out the facilities,
whereas when lucas and I startedit was, you know, we were so
passionate, and still are tothis day, but so passionate
about helping others.
As far as, like the financialplan went, we didn't really have
(04:48):
one, so it was like, hey, let'sjust rent this house, we'll
fill it with furniture.
We'll fill it with, like, pooltable, ping pong table, make it
fun.
We'll actually live in thebasement of it and then we'll
have clients upstairs and we canhelp them out through their day
to day.
We'll have therapy on the side.
(05:09):
We'll try to contract withpeople in the community.
So that's I mean it startedvery, very bare bones and low
overhead because, yeah, well, Ithink I did.
Speaker 1 (05:21):
I'm pretty sure I came down and visited you at the
house before you opened, beforeyou had guys there.
You had like one guy orsomething like right right after
you bought it and I ran downthere and and took a look at the
place and everything else andand you guys were.
You know, I think that thereare lots of people out there
starting, you know, these kindsof endeavors.
(05:43):
You see sober homes all overthe country, of course, and I
think you know there are someguys who kind of do it and they
they want to manage from afar,um, and that doesn't always work
.
You know, unless you've got,like you say, the backers and
you can hire staff and you doall those things.
That's one version of this, butthe other version is a person
who's passionate about recoveryand passionate about helping
(06:05):
others and giving back, and they, you know, like we're just
going to make this our life.
You know we're going to livehere, we're going to invest our
lives into what this is and towatch something like that grow
that's.
I think that places, when theycome about, when they come about
, their origin story has a lotto do with how their character
(06:28):
is as they grow, as they age andget older and as they serve
other people.
Something that I know about theguys that you're working with
and the people that you've gotthem being served by is that
everybody's incrediblypassionate about what's going on
there.
There's not a single personthere that's not 100% down on
(06:48):
figuring out how this person canfind recovery for themselves,
and that's been just a reallygreat thing to see.
But I know that you hit thispoint where you're like okay, I
want to do more than just youknow.
Like you said, there's sometherapy there.
And then you're like well, waita minute, maybe we to do more
than just you know, you, likeyou said, there's some little
therapy there, and then you'relike well, wait a minute, maybe
we want to do more.
Like you're doing so much morethan just therapy now, like
(07:10):
we're tell me about the littlemarkers that cause you to to
notch up every time, like whathappened when you to get to the
place where you are now php, iopand all all the trimmings yeah,
um, honestly, I think one ofthe biggest pushers for it was
logistics.
Speaker 2 (07:28):
You know when you're contracting out groups intensive
outpatient groups andindividual therapy you know we
had to tend to those contractorsschedules and we're on their
time now and it can make it hardto do when now you have eight
guys in a house.
You have limited transportationor limited staff to take them
(07:48):
places and three differentcontractors to get them to.
Yeah, now they're getting jobson the side or this guy's
getting into school part-time,and so that big attributing
factor was just, logistically,how can we make this easier on
ourselves?
But then we started to thinkthrough again what is the best
(08:10):
thing for the guy?
And we've never been a programthat believes in sitting a young
guy down in a room for sixhours a day and saying, hey,
let's talk about your feelings.
They're pulling their hair outby the end of the session and,
quite frankly, all of ourtherapists are too right.
Um, that's a tough thing to do.
So we we also wanted toincorporate like, let's get
(08:33):
active during these sessions.
Let's like go over to the UFCgym and do a Brazilian jujitsu
class or a Muay Thai class.
Let's go on a hike in Parismountain.
Uh, let's go to the park andplay some pickleball and then
start to piece the therapyaround that so it breaks it up,
keeps their bodies moving, theirbrain moving, and we just had
(08:53):
way more success with that thanjust sitting in a like having
that classroom setting.
Speaker 1 (08:58):
Right.
So how does that inform?
How you do?
You know for and I've talkedabout this on the show but for
anybody who's listening you knowphp is a partial
hospitalization.
We we know that means more orless five days a week.
Everybody does their day alittle differently, but at least
three hours, sometimes it'sfive, sometimes it's all day,
depending on the program iop andphp.
(09:20):
There the difference is IOPdoes three days instead of five
and you know, if I was to kindof go poke at the kind of
run-of-the-mill PHP, IOP, youknow they're stacking a bunch of
people in a room probably morethan they should and cycling
(09:40):
through content that you know.
If you catch guys who are inkind of repeat recovery kinds of
cycles, you know they'verelapsed and they're going back
through it.
They go back through PHP andIOP and it's just all.
It's all the same thing, whichI know is not true for your
programming.
What is it that?
(10:00):
What is it you do to spice upthe, that clinical environment?
You need some hours.
Licensure says you have to havesome hours in a classroom with
somebody who's licensed, atherapist or somebody else that
is going to provide this content.
Like, how are you?
What is that clinicalenvironment and that that you
(10:21):
know therapeutic education piecelook like for you guys,
incorporating the stuff you know, adventure and body movement
and everything else.
Like, how are you mixing it updown there, putting those
together?
Speaker 2 (10:33):
yeah, um, just by doing like the therapists are
involved in some of thoseactivities, so it.
And then, as long as they comeback and process the activity
together and the therapist wasthere with them during it and
then processing it afterward, itcounts as PHP or IOP hours.
And you touched on a good pointis that there are regulations
(10:55):
and guidelines that we have tofollow in the state of South
Carolina, and I think it's evendifferent in North Carolina, but
South Carolina PHP is a minimumof six hours a day, five days a
week and, if I'm not mistaking,in North Carolina it's five
hours.
It's five hours.
Yeah, so it's six hours here.
And an argument I would say foranother day with you is like,
(11:17):
who's making these regulations?
It's even the best thing, likewe can make that argument now,
yeah, do we need to sit down andrun through, just like.
Yeah, do we need to sit downand run through just like
(11:43):
workbooks for six hours a day.
Like you know, is the young guyagain, I know, right, like this
dry material, and you'vealready, you know, have someone
in there who's maybe strugglingwith ADHD and like sitting still
is just not the thing to do inearly recovery.
Speaker 1 (11:48):
These guys have struggled in academic
environments already and you'reputting them back into this
scenario right, yeah, and it'slike setting them up for failure
in our eyes.
Speaker 2 (11:54):
So that's where we made a point to take this
holistic approach where we'renot only looking at just the
therapy but we're looking at thediet, we're looking at exercise
and how you're moving your body, we're looking at how you're
sleeping, and if you just adjustthose things, it's amazing how
much different someone canpresent if you change their diet
(12:16):
, their exercise and their sleepoh yeah yeah, I mean but then
to intertwine the, thetherapeutic component, with an
active component.
I I mean it's just made it somuch better for us and we get
better attention throughout theday and better conversations are
happening.
(12:36):
And I think another reasonwe're able to do that is because
we've continued to be a smallerprogram.
We're not a volume-basedprogram.
That's pumping, you know.
When you throw 40 people into agroup you kind of have to rush
through things and have a like agive everyone a worksheet and
everyone gets five minutes totouch on their worksheet and
(12:58):
then group is over and youdidn't really do a deep dive
into anything.
Speaker 1 (13:03):
But you spent your hour right.
Speaker 2 (13:04):
Yeah, but you took up those hour.
But you spent your hour right.
Yeah, but you took up thosehour two or three hours for the
group.
So that's another thing that'sjust really important to us is
like keeping it small enough towhere we can really dive deep on
what are the core issues thatwe need to work on.
Speaker 1 (13:20):
Yeah, making it personal for them.
Now tell me a little bit aboutwhat a day looks like, because
I'm curious about this.
As a programming geek, as youknow, I like to get into the
nitty-gritty of stuff.
But let's take PHP.
What does a six-hour day foryou guys look like?
(13:42):
Because some of the otherconversations around wilderness
programs and experientialtherapies and other kinds of
things like this, you knowthere's this big argument when
you're running into licensure,it's like, well, you know, we
don't pay for, we don't pay forwilderness therapy because it
doesn't place take place in alicensed facility, right?
Um, and you know there are alot of arguments that are out
(14:05):
there being made, including anattorney that I got to have on
the show, jordan Lewis, and hewon a case about equine therapy.
They were going to turn downequine therapy and coverage for
that.
It's like, hey, equine therapyis a viable therapy.
They did it on site.
It doesn't matter whether theyused horses or not.
A licensed therapist is using amedium that they're trained in
(14:27):
to provide a therapeutic hourand you need to pay for that.
And they won the case.
So like, kind of like notworrying about if we stop trying
to make a case for why it'sgood to do this therapy in this
location or in this environmentand the fact is like I've got a
licensed therapist.
They're providing therapy wherethey do it and how they do it
(14:49):
is up to them and theirprofession.
Like insurance companies, don'tget to say whether or not they
can use a horse or a bike or beoutside or any of those other
things Like.
So do you mix up the PHPenvironment?
Are they spending five hours ina classroom with a lunch break,
or whatever six hours with alunch break in the middle, or
(15:12):
are you chopping it upthroughout the day with stuff
that's active, with goingoutside and things like that.
Speaker 2 (15:14):
How does that work?
Yeah, so chopping it upthroughout the day, where
there's typically like some sortof activity in the morning
groups, where they chop it up,break it up, then come back to
the office and then there's somesort of activity after lunch.
Right, but to break it up alittle bit, whether that's
jujitsu, muay Thai,weightlifting, but something to
get their blood pumping, yeah,not to have the uh after lunch
(15:37):
doldrums.
Speaker 1 (15:40):
Now, of course, being you know a guy who's could also
nerd out on experiential umstuff.
What is the what is an?
What is an activity you'reincorporating into the day?
Who could also nerd out onexperiential stuff?
What is an activity you'reincorporating into the day that
turns into a processingopportunity when they get back
into a group environment or evenan individual therapy
(16:01):
environment?
What activities do you find tobe the merry best, becoming kind
of this grist for the millcontent?
What activity does the best jobof giving you stuff that the
guys process later on and seemto get the most value out of
Like what?
What activity or activities areyou finding really work?
Speaker 2 (16:24):
Um, I mean, my favorite stories come out of
Brazilian jujitsu.
Really, yeah Cause.
I I mean that can beintimidating, yeah, for a new
guy to even hear that like, oh,I'm gonna have to go into a ring
and they may.
You know, I think initially ourmind can go to a place of I'm
gonna get beat up.
You know I can get physicallyharmed in here, but it's.
(16:46):
You know, it's often bag workor working with coaches that
really know what they're doingand they're helping you through
it.
But another thing about jujitsuis this like constantly facing,
like you're having to, it'sconfrontation, up front
confrontation, you know.
(17:06):
And they say in jujitsu,instead of like trying to step
away from your, your opponent,where you can get hit, you step
into them where and don't letthem have space.
And that's where you start tograpple and um, and there's a
good book called transformingtrauma with jujitsu.
Speaker 1 (17:22):
Got it right back here on my shelf yeah.
Speaker 2 (17:26):
And it's an awesome book that that just kind of
teaches that skill and I'm goingto break it down to the
baseline here of just um, ifyou're, it's training that fight
or flight response of hey, it'sokay for me to have this
feeling and lean into it versusyou know, go use substances
because of it, right, andjujitsu is just like constantly
(17:50):
hitting on that, that fight orflight response and training you
to like, hey, embrace it, it'sokay.
Get into it, embrace it.
But we've had guys like likeour clinical director, rolling
with a guy and he you know theywere like locked up in a move
and he tapped the clinicaldirector like let me go, I'm
tapping out.
And the director was like comeon, man, I don't have you in any
(18:12):
kind of hold that would harmyou.
I'm not pressing your chestdown, Right, it's not painful,
it's not going to pass you outor anything, but try a little
harder.
And he rolled for two secondsand got mad and tapped again and
the director was like come on,man, you got this.
And eventually the guy tappedand pulled, just jerked out of
(18:35):
it.
He was really upset and theclinical director was like man,
what happened there?
There's a trend where we've beenquitting things our whole life.
We quit school, we quit on ourrelationships, we quit on mom
and dad's conversations.
Just as soon as it got hard,right, yeah, as soon as you
start to feel any like yeah,getting hard, you quit.
And this is what we need towork on.
(18:56):
And the guy just started cryingand, you know, broke into a
great process group.
Uh, for the other guys, it gavethem the opportunity to step in
and talk about theirexperiences with quitting.
So I'd say some of the cooleststories come out of the mixed
martial arts.
Speaker 1 (19:14):
That's pretty cool.
Yeah, you know, in martial artsmyself I've been off and on for
most of the years of my life,even as a young kid, and do kung
fu locally.
And you know, one of the thingsthat I've always noticed about
being in any studio wheremartial arts is being practiced
(19:34):
and taught is there's always afew guys there that if they
didn't have martial arts I don'tknow where they'd be.
You know what I mean.
If they didn't have this as arelease mechanism, as something
that kind of lived inside ofthem, they might not have the
resources necessary to deal withthe world, because they were.
They were always on edge, butit gave them a place of calm, it
(19:55):
played them a place that theyhad a practice you know what I
mean.
Like they had, they had thisthing, that was a practice of
theirs that they clearly appliedto other aspects of their life,
even if it wasn't fighting, youknow, applied to their job, or
they applied to theirrelationships, or they applied
to their relationships or theyapplied to anything else.
And I mean, I think that's aconcept that you run into when
you do martial arts.
It's like these concepts workacross support.
(20:17):
It's like you're going to facea challenge.
You're going to face somethingthat feels like resistance and
you have to kind of work alittle harder to break through
it.
It's like how are you going tomeet that?
What's in you to try and meetthat?
You'll confront yourself fairlyquickly.
Despite the fact that you mightbe fighting with an opponent,
(20:37):
the person that you'reconfronting is often yourself.
Speaker 2 (20:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:43):
That's really cool, man.
Well, are you finding that theguys, now that you've been doing
this a little while, are they?
Are they sticking with it?
Are they sticking withjiu-jitsu?
Are they picking it up topractice elsewhere?
Or?
Speaker 2 (20:53):
transitioning into the.
Speaker 1 (20:54):
You're seeing guys that are alumni coming back
around and taking classes.
How does that work?
Speaker 2 (20:58):
yeah, some do.
I mean I'm going to be honest,it might be 30 or 40 percent
that do um and who knows, maybemaybe later in life they'll pick
it back up.
But you know, maybe 30 or 40%in the last three to four years
have come back around to like,keep it as a hobby of theirs.
But you know, that's just oneof the activities we're
(21:20):
introducing them to.
We also do like rock climbingand pickleball, and some of
those guys just choose to go adifferent path, right?
Speaker 1 (21:27):
But that's available to them.
If they don't feel comfortablewith this expression, they can
move themselves over tosomething else.
They've got some variety Now.
The other thing I want to talkto you about, because you know
the something that we run intois you know, working with people
and finding programs for themto land in is is the orientation
(21:50):
with 12 step.
I'm not trying to say there'sanything wrong, but I know that
you guys are are prettyversatile in your messaging.
You know you've got you've gotreal capabilities of like let's
explore, let's see.
Okay, you know, maybe you'renot surrendering to a higher
power.
Let's explore this as a concept, though you know that there's
(22:11):
this conversation that can livewith a person who might not have
an immediate alignment.
12 step how is it that you like, do you are you, do you find
resistance out in the recoverycommunity for the way that you
do some of that?
Talk a little bit about yourmethod around it and talk about
what you see in comparison toothers that are more stringent
or more hard-nosed about it, orwhat have you?
(22:32):
What does that look like?
Speaker 2 (22:34):
Yeah, so for us we look at Greenville Transitions
as two separate entities.
There's Greenville Transitions,which is the sober living, and
then there's the GreenvilleTransitions Recovery Center,
which is like our clinical side,and on the clinical side I
think that our job there is tointroduce as many pathways as we
can to recovery, whether thatbe, you know, smart refuge.
(22:57):
There's all different pathwaysyou can take into recovery and
we want you to like see them all.
Take what works for you andleave behind what doesn't, with
there being a little directionin there, because we don't
always make the best choices onwhat's good for us in early
recovery and what's unhealthy.
Speaker 1 (23:17):
It's like you've got some alignment to this method
that we've introduced you to.
Now I need you to invest andcomplete.
You know what I mean?
Yeah, exactly, I need you tofinish complete.
Speaker 2 (23:30):
You know what I mean Like exactly Need you to finish
and so, and then on the housingside, we are a little more 12
step focused and you can get 12steps and different programs and
we don't care which program youchoose to get those.
My argument there is like Ithink working through the 12
steps can benefit anyone.
I think if my mom went throughthe 12 steps that she would get
something positive out of it.
(23:50):
And I don't care if it's onething, I don't care if you go
through a million things andonly pick out one that you think
is positive.
That's a win for me.
So that's kind of been my ouroutlook on that for the house,
like are you running into othermembers of the recovery
community?
Speaker 1 (24:06):
They're like I don't know about that, like, do you
find any resistance out there?
Because I think that we're kindof coming, we're, we're walking
into a world where we all ofour models, all of our
understanding about how recoveryworks and mental and mental
health is treated and so on andso forth they're expanding
because we get these newgenerations of people that are
(24:27):
going through recovery andthey're not.
You know, they're not what youwere as a young adult and
they're not what I was as ayoung adult.
You know their, theirexperience has been completely
different.
Heck, half of them have codedas part of their story.
You know that was traumatizingfor them.
Like, what do you, what are you?
What are you running into inthe rest of the community?
and and how are you, how are younavigating some of that?
(24:50):
Because that community can be alittle funny about those things
.
Speaker 2 (24:55):
Yeah, I mean we haven't been getting a whole lot
of pushback from, like, ourlocal community.
But of course you know whenit's someone coming in to start
groups or whether it's ourevening IOP or coming into our
housing and starting PHP, we'llget a person here and there that
gives a little pushback.
Speaker 1 (25:16):
And this is not the way I did it Right.
What's that?
This is not the way I did it,or this is not the way I think
it's supposed to be done?
Speaker 2 (25:24):
Yes, and my argument would be well, why not try it?
Why not give it a try and let'ssee if, like I said, that one
positive thing can come out ofit, even if it's one, and then
you have all of these others tochoose from and all of these
other avenues you can take.
But you're right that the gameis changing a lot and you know
(25:49):
it's our job as professionals totry to like stay on top of it
and try to offer the bestproduct that you can and what
you really think is going tohelp someone at the end of the
day.
That being said, I think it'salso nice to have different
options of different styles,like the Greenville transition
style isn't going to work foreveryone and I'm like I'm fine
with that.
You know there are a lot ofother programs out there that do
(26:10):
things differently, so it'sabout finding the program that
works best for your style.
Speaker 1 (26:16):
Yeah, there is no one size fits all.
Speaker 2 (26:18):
Basically, I mean I could agree with that more.
I want to touch on that, likewhen we built this program I
mean, lucas and I were heavilyinvolved, or we were the only
ones involved in the beginningas we're creating this program
and nothing else was in our mindas we're creating it other than
like, how can we create thebest program to support
(26:41):
essentially us like anotheryoung, early or late teens,
early twenties, um, mid twenties, late twenties guy who's trying
to change their life and starta lifestyle of recovery?
What would that look like?
And we didn't even factor inlike price and what what these
things would cost to have UFCgym memberships and rock
(27:01):
climbing gym memberships andlet's provide their groceries
instead of let them get theirgroceries and then fight over
groceries.
If we provide them, it takes.
So we thought through all ofthese things like in very great
detail to pick out, like basedon our personal experiences,
what we think is what reallyhelps someone.
But my personal experience, myrecovery experience, isn't going
(27:26):
to align perfectly with everyother person out there and I
have to be okay with that at theend of the day.
Speaker 1 (27:33):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely Well.
I mean, I think that there'ssome.
You know.
What you're touching on is thatthere need to be some core
basics and then philosophically,you can.
You might be able to move indirections that are
differentiating here or there,but guys are taken care of, the
house is run well, the potentialfor conflict is managed In a
(27:58):
supported living environment.
I don't think people thinkabout it, but it's one of the,
it's one of the greatestchallenges you face all the time
is like guys having conflictwith one another, and they will.
They will have conflicts overanything.
They'll mess with each other'sstuff.
They'll, you know, they'llborrow somebody's front seat,
(28:18):
right.
They'll borrow somebody else'sclothes and you know, they'll
steal somebody's special thingout of the refrigerator, like
the whole all of it, anythingthat can happen.
They'll find, um, and sometimesbecause they're just testing
the limits, right, but um, and Ithink the other pieces, many of
them are looking for a place to, to find it being validated
that they don't belong here.
See, I can't get along with anyof these guys or whatever, you
(28:39):
know they're fine.
They're looking for a place tofind it being validated that
they don't belong here.
See, I can't get along with anyof these guys, or whatever.
They're testing the limits andthere's, I think, the
self-consciousness piece, theself-efficacy piece that they
struggle with so much, even atthat stage of recovery.
(28:59):
They've been through treatment,they've been through a lot of
clinical.
They get to you and they'restill wanting in here.
It's like I don't belong in theworld and I don't get along
with anybody and I don't fit,and all these other messages
that they're saying tothemselves and they try to.
They try to validate thatmessage somewhere in their
environment, you know, andthey'll make you into dad and
they'll make the you know thefemale therapist into mom and
(29:25):
they'll make the you know thefemale therapist into mom and
they'll project till the cowscome home and everything else,
and it's really a like a.
It's really a.
It's a human psychologymanagement environment is what
it becomes.
Yeah, drama triangle, insertdrama triangle exactly.
And of course you know, if theydon't have that, if they don't
do that stuff, then then youknow you don't get to yank out,
(29:48):
pull out the mirror and makesure that they are, you know,
like, hey, here's this mirror, Iwonder if you'd be willing to
take a look at it.
I wonder if that's somethingthat we should work on and that
really becomes, you know, the.
The other experiential thingthat's going on is that living
environment.
Right, yeah, they're coming outand going.
Now these are my conflicts andthat's the same conflict I had
(30:10):
with the last guy and that's theconflict I had with my dad and
that's the conflict I had when Iwas at college and everything
else.
Like, they just find itreplicated in their life and
it'll keep giving themopportunities to face it.
It'll in their life and it'llkeep giving them opportunities
to face it.
It'll keep showing up if theydon't work with it and figure
out a way to get around it andput it in a good place in their
life.
But the other thing I wanted toask before we get done, david,
(30:32):
is with regard to your clinicalenvironment and your sober
living environment, is theclinical environment available
only to the sober living guys?
Are you also providing that nowto the Greenville community?
You have outside folks cominginto your, your, your PHP and
IOP.
Speaker 2 (30:51):
We do offer services to the community as well.
So all of our daytimeprogramming is for our housing
and the younger guys that are inthat population.
And then in the evenings wehave and it's like a standard
evening or professionals IOPit's Monday, tuesday, thursday
nights from six to 9 PM.
Speaker 1 (31:10):
That's more of our professionals group, where we
help just the local communityhere, local community that's in
recovery but staying home andneeds a place to to do their
work.
Speaker 2 (31:21):
Maybe they have a family, or maybe they don't have
the luxury of just taking a bigbreak in life and going
inpatient somewhere.
So they have a job that theyhave to, you know, keep earning
a check out, or a family thatthey need to tend to kids.
So that's been a good resourcehere.
Speaker 1 (31:38):
Well, that's awesome.
As you know, I'm a bigsupporter of your the work you
guys are doing down there and,um, I hope that we'll be working
again soon with one of ourfolks that'll come down your way
but and I hope to get to seeyou guys here pretty soon.
You're not that far away.
We're way down to Greenvilleand we'll do a little swamp
rabbit time, you know.
So, um, david, it's been greatto have you on the show.
(32:01):
This has been, uh, head insidemental health with todd
weatherly.
David bignese, ceo andexecutive director of greenville
transition, has been my guest.
Uh, we'll look forward to beingwith you folks next time.
Speaker 2 (32:12):
Take care, david.
Thanks for having me.
I found you in this way.
I did it this way.
I found you in this way.
I did it this way.
I found you in this way.
I did it this way.
I found you in this way.
I found you in this way.
(32:32):
I did it this way.
I found you in this way.
I found you in this way.
I found you in this way.
Speaker 1 (33:51):
I did it this way.
I found you in this way, thankyou, I need to find my way home.
Bye, I need to find my way home.
I feel so lonely and lost inhere.
I need to find my way home.
Find my way home.
Hello folks, thanks again for joining us on Head
Inside Mental Health, featuringconversations about mental
health and substance usetreatment, with experts from
across the country sharing theirthoughts and insights on the
world of behavioral health care,broadcasting on WPBM 1037, the
voice of Asheville independentcommercial free radio.
I'm Todd Weatherly, your host,therapeutic consultant and
(00:21):
behavioral health expert metoday.
It took me a while to get him,but I am happy to have a
longtime friend, recoveryadvocate, recovery professional,
david McNeese.
David is the executive directorof Greenville Transitions, a
supported sober living programthat provides recovery and peer
support services includingindividual and family therapy,
(00:43):
case management, medicationmanagement, adventure therapy,
and also has a partialhospitalization program and an
intensive outpatient program foryoung adult men.
They serve there in Greenville,south Carolina.
David's been in recovery since2012.
Did I get that right, dave?
Yeah, when he first soughttreatment for himself as a young
(01:03):
adult, I met David a decade agonow.
Can you believe that?
Speaker 2 (01:09):
It's a while.
Speaker 1 (01:10):
It's a while Working as a house manager for the
recovery program we had at FourCircles.
The Four Circles was atreatment center and had a men's
recovery program or transitionprogram as well as a women's,
and David was the house managerthere for a little while.
He had to put up with me as hisboss for a minute, but since
(01:31):
then he has become a pioneer inthe recovery field as both
founder and executive director,ceo of his program there in
Greenville.
Now for eight years I've beenworking with Greensville
Transitions and growing thatteam there and building the
program.
I remember when you started outand you were, you know it was
just as you found this home inGreenville and you started what
(01:55):
was was kind of a basic soberhome and then and then there was
like well, you know, we wantsome clinical in for our guys.
So you started partnering withpeople and doing the IOP thing
and you're like you know what?
I think we can do this betterthan they can actually.
And you know, as the years wentby, you know an IOP turned into
a PHP, a partialhospitalization program.
(02:16):
So you know, for a guy whostarted off as a house manager
and more or less fresh out ofrecovery, turning it around into
one of the more clinicallysophisticated sober programs
that we have in the Southeast.
I think that's pretty cool.
Like you know, tell me aboutthat journey.
Man.
(02:37):
Like just you know, you and Ihave known each other a while.
I mean I think we've touched onit at times.
But I've met your staff andI've been able to hang out with
you guys and we've workedtogether with some clients and
everything else.
But like I've never gotten thepoint by point journey as you
saw it from your perspective.
Like I kind of know what causedyou to open the place.
(03:00):
But what's this journey beenlike for you?
Speaker 2 (03:03):
Yeah, yeah, and there's a lot to unpack there,
so I'll try to get a streamlinedversion, and first I just want
to thank you for having me on,and it's awesome to be here and
talking with you, someone that Irespect and know from the
community and I've worked within the past, so thanks again,
it's great to have you,absolutely Great to have you.
(03:24):
But, yeah, to go into GreenvilleTransitions.
How it got started, you knowhow it started was a guy
struggling with addiction andsubstance use disorder and
people helping him through that,and then me wanting to turn
around and give back and say,hey, you know what?
I think that I could be good atdoing this and helping others
(03:44):
through this hard part of lifeif they've entered it.
So I'd like to try my hand atit and I would like to bring in
the name of my business partner,lucas Coleman-Socia, who's our
COO.
A lot of this was a dual journeywhere he took his experience.
I took my experience fromgetting sober at a young age,
(04:05):
combining those and trying tobuild what we thought could be
the best program for a youngadult male entering into a
lifestyle of recovery.
Right, um, and and man, when westarted it was like the wild
west.
I mean, many, many people don'tknow the the very beginning.
Um, and I think when a lot ofprograms start, they have a lot
(04:27):
of money backing them or theyhave investors come in and help
them build out a program andbuild out the facilities,
whereas when lucas and I startedit was, you know, we were so
passionate, and still are tothis day, but so passionate
about helping others.
As far as, like the financialplan went, we didn't really have
(04:48):
one, so it was like, hey, let'sjust rent this house, we'll
fill it with furniture.
We'll fill it with, like, pooltable, ping pong table, make it
fun.
We'll actually live in thebasement of it and then we'll
have clients upstairs and we canhelp them out through their day
to day.
We'll have therapy on the side.
(05:09):
We'll try to contract withpeople in the community.
So that's I mean it startedvery, very bare bones and low
overhead because, yeah, well, Ithink I did.
Speaker 1 (05:21):
I'm pretty sure I came down and visited you at the
house before you opened, beforeyou had guys there.
You had like one guy orsomething like right right after
you bought it and I ran downthere and and took a look at the
place and everything else andand you guys were.
You know, I think that thereare lots of people out there
starting, you know, these kindsof endeavors.
(05:43):
You see sober homes all overthe country, of course, and I
think you know there are someguys who kind of do it and they
they want to manage from afar,um, and that doesn't always work
.
You know, unless you've got,like you say, the backers and
you can hire staff and you doall those things.
That's one version of this, butthe other version is a person
who's passionate about recoveryand passionate about helping
(06:05):
others and giving back, and they, you know, like we're just
going to make this our life.
You know we're going to livehere, we're going to invest our
lives into what this is and towatch something like that grow
that's.
I think that places, when theycome about, when they come about
, their origin story has a lotto do with how their character
(06:28):
is as they grow, as they age andget older and as they serve
other people.
Something that I know about theguys that you're working with
and the people that you've gotthem being served by is that
everybody's incrediblypassionate about what's going on
there.
There's not a single personthere that's not 100% down on
(06:48):
figuring out how this person canfind recovery for themselves,
and that's been just a reallygreat thing to see.
But I know that you hit thispoint where you're like okay, I
want to do more than just youknow.
Like you said, there's sometherapy there.
And then you're like well, waita minute, maybe we to do more
than just you know, you, likeyou said, there's some little
therapy there, and then you'relike well, wait a minute, maybe
we want to do more.
Like you're doing so much morethan just therapy now, like
(07:10):
we're tell me about the littlemarkers that cause you to to
notch up every time, like whathappened when you to get to the
place where you are now php, iopand all all the trimmings yeah,
um, honestly, I think one ofthe biggest pushers for it was
logistics.
Speaker 2 (07:28):
You know when you're contracting out groups intensive
outpatient groups andindividual therapy you know we
had to tend to those contractorsschedules and we're on their
time now and it can make it hardto do when now you have eight
guys in a house.
You have limited transportationor limited staff to take them
(07:48):
places and three differentcontractors to get them to.
Yeah, now they're getting jobson the side or this guy's
getting into school part-time,and so that big attributing
factor was just, logistically,how can we make this easier on
ourselves?
But then we started to thinkthrough again what is the best
(08:10):
thing for the guy?
And we've never been a programthat believes in sitting a young
guy down in a room for sixhours a day and saying, hey,
let's talk about your feelings.
They're pulling their hair outby the end of the session and,
quite frankly, all of ourtherapists are too right.
Um, that's a tough thing to do.
So we we also wanted toincorporate like, let's get
(08:33):
active during these sessions.
Let's like go over to the UFCgym and do a Brazilian jujitsu
class or a Muay Thai class.
Let's go on a hike in Parismountain.
Uh, let's go to the park andplay some pickleball and then
start to piece the therapyaround that so it breaks it up,
keeps their bodies moving, theirbrain moving, and we just had
(08:53):
way more success with that thanjust sitting in a like having
that classroom setting.
Speaker 1 (08:58):
Right.
So how does that inform?
How you do?
You know for and I've talkedabout this on the show but for
anybody who's listening you knowphp is a partial
hospitalization.
We we know that means more orless five days a week.
Everybody does their day alittle differently, but at least
three hours, sometimes it'sfive, sometimes it's all day,
depending on the program iop andphp.
(09:20):
There the difference is IOPdoes three days instead of five
and you know, if I was to kindof go poke at the kind of
run-of-the-mill PHP, IOP, youknow they're stacking a bunch of
people in a room probably morethan they should and cycling
(09:40):
through content that you know.
If you catch guys who are inkind of repeat recovery kinds of
cycles, you know they'verelapsed and they're going back
through it.
They go back through PHP andIOP and it's just all.
It's all the same thing, whichI know is not true for your
programming.
What is it that?
(10:00):
What is it you do to spice upthe, that clinical environment?
You need some hours.
Licensure says you have to havesome hours in a classroom with
somebody who's licensed, atherapist or somebody else that
is going to provide this content.
Like, how are you?
What is that clinicalenvironment and that that you
(10:21):
know therapeutic education piecelook like for you guys,
incorporating the stuff you know, adventure and body movement
and everything else.
Like, how are you mixing it updown there, putting those
together?
Speaker 2 (10:33):
yeah, um, just by doing like the therapists are
involved in some of thoseactivities, so it.
And then, as long as they comeback and process the activity
together and the therapist wasthere with them during it and
then processing it afterward, itcounts as PHP or IOP hours.
And you touched on a good pointis that there are regulations
(10:55):
and guidelines that we have tofollow in the state of South
Carolina, and I think it's evendifferent in North Carolina, but
South Carolina PHP is a minimumof six hours a day, five days a
week and, if I'm not mistaking,in North Carolina it's five
hours.
It's five hours.
Yeah, so it's six hours here.
And an argument I would say foranother day with you is like,
(11:17):
who's making these regulations?
It's even the best thing, likewe can make that argument now,
yeah, do we need to sit down andrun through, just like.
Yeah, do we need to sit downand run through just like
(11:43):
workbooks for six hours a day.
Like you know, is the young guyagain, I know, right, like this
dry material, and you'vealready, you know, have someone
in there who's maybe strugglingwith ADHD and like sitting still
is just not the thing to do inearly recovery.
Speaker 1 (11:48):
These guys have struggled in academic
environments already and you'reputting them back into this
scenario right, yeah, and it'slike setting them up for failure
in our eyes.
Speaker 2 (11:54):
So that's where we made a point to take this
holistic approach where we'renot only looking at just the
therapy but we're looking at thediet, we're looking at exercise
and how you're moving your body, we're looking at how you're
sleeping, and if you just adjustthose things, it's amazing how
much different someone canpresent if you change their diet
(12:16):
, their exercise and their sleepoh yeah yeah, I mean but then
to intertwine the, thetherapeutic component, with an
active component.
I I mean it's just made it somuch better for us and we get
better attention throughout theday and better conversations are
happening.
(12:36):
And I think another reasonwe're able to do that is because
we've continued to be a smallerprogram.
We're not a volume-basedprogram.
That's pumping, you know.
When you throw 40 people into agroup you kind of have to rush
through things and have a like agive everyone a worksheet and
everyone gets five minutes totouch on their worksheet and
(12:58):
then group is over and youdidn't really do a deep dive
into anything.
Speaker 1 (13:03):
But you spent your hour right.
Speaker 2 (13:04):
Yeah, but you took up those hour.
But you spent your hour right.
Yeah, but you took up thosehour two or three hours for the
group.
So that's another thing that'sjust really important to us is
like keeping it small enough towhere we can really dive deep on
what are the core issues thatwe need to work on.
Speaker 1 (13:20):
Yeah, making it personal for them.
Now tell me a little bit aboutwhat a day looks like, because
I'm curious about this.
As a programming geek, as youknow, I like to get into the
nitty-gritty of stuff.
But let's take PHP.
What does a six-hour day foryou guys look like?
(13:42):
Because some of the otherconversations around wilderness
programs and experientialtherapies and other kinds of
things like this, you knowthere's this big argument when
you're running into licensure,it's like, well, you know, we
don't pay for, we don't pay forwilderness therapy because it
doesn't place take place in alicensed facility, right?
Um, and you know there are alot of arguments that are out
(14:05):
there being made, including anattorney that I got to have on
the show, jordan Lewis, and hewon a case about equine therapy.
They were going to turn downequine therapy and coverage for
that.
It's like, hey, equine therapyis a viable therapy.
They did it on site.
It doesn't matter whether theyused horses or not.
A licensed therapist is using amedium that they're trained in
(14:27):
to provide a therapeutic hourand you need to pay for that.
And they won the case.
So like, kind of like notworrying about if we stop trying
to make a case for why it'sgood to do this therapy in this
location or in this environmentand the fact is like I've got a
licensed therapist.
They're providing therapy wherethey do it and how they do it
(14:49):
is up to them and theirprofession.
Like insurance companies, don'tget to say whether or not they
can use a horse or a bike or beoutside or any of those other
things Like.
So do you mix up the PHPenvironment?
Are they spending five hours ina classroom with a lunch break,
or whatever six hours with alunch break in the middle, or
(15:12):
are you chopping it upthroughout the day with stuff
that's active, with goingoutside and things like that.
Speaker 2 (15:14):
How does that work?
Yeah, so chopping it upthroughout the day, where
there's typically like some sortof activity in the morning
groups, where they chop it up,break it up, then come back to
the office and then there's somesort of activity after lunch.
Right, but to break it up alittle bit, whether that's
jujitsu, muay Thai,weightlifting, but something to
get their blood pumping, yeah,not to have the uh after lunch
(15:37):
doldrums.
Speaker 1 (15:40):
Now, of course, being you know a guy who's could also
nerd out on experiential umstuff.
What is the what is an?
What is an activity you'reincorporating into the day?
Who could also nerd out onexperiential stuff?
What is an activity you'reincorporating into the day that
turns into a processingopportunity when they get back
into a group environment or evenan individual therapy
(16:01):
environment?
What activities do you find tobe the merry best, becoming kind
of this grist for the millcontent?
What activity does the best jobof giving you stuff that the
guys process later on and seemto get the most value out of
Like what?
What activity or activities areyou finding really work?
Speaker 2 (16:24):
Um, I mean, my favorite stories come out of
Brazilian jujitsu.
Really, yeah Cause.
I I mean that can beintimidating, yeah, for a new
guy to even hear that like, oh,I'm gonna have to go into a ring
and they may.
You know, I think initially ourmind can go to a place of I'm
gonna get beat up.
You know I can get physicallyharmed in here, but it's.
(16:46):
You know, it's often bag workor working with coaches that
really know what they're doingand they're helping you through
it.
But another thing about jujitsuis this like constantly facing,
like you're having to, it'sconfrontation, up front
confrontation, you know.
(17:06):
And they say in jujitsu,instead of like trying to step
away from your, your opponent,where you can get hit, you step
into them where and don't letthem have space.
And that's where you start tograpple and um, and there's a
good book called transformingtrauma with jujitsu.
Speaker 1 (17:22):
Got it right back here on my shelf yeah.
Speaker 2 (17:26):
And it's an awesome book that that just kind of
teaches that skill and I'm goingto break it down to the
baseline here of just um, ifyou're, it's training that fight
or flight response of hey, it'sokay for me to have this
feeling and lean into it versusyou know, go use substances
because of it, right, andjujitsu is just like constantly
(17:50):
hitting on that, that fight orflight response and training you
to like, hey, embrace it, it'sokay.
Get into it, embrace it.
But we've had guys like likeour clinical director, rolling
with a guy and he you know theywere like locked up in a move
and he tapped the clinicaldirector like let me go, I'm
tapping out.
And the director was like comeon, man, I don't have you in any
(18:12):
kind of hold that would harmyou.
I'm not pressing your chestdown, Right, it's not painful,
it's not going to pass you outor anything, but try a little
harder.
And he rolled for two secondsand got mad and tapped again and
the director was like come on,man, you got this.
And eventually the guy tappedand pulled, just jerked out of
(18:35):
it.
He was really upset and theclinical director was like man,
what happened there?
There's a trend where we've beenquitting things our whole life.
We quit school, we quit on ourrelationships, we quit on mom
and dad's conversations.
Just as soon as it got hard,right, yeah, as soon as you
start to feel any like yeah,getting hard, you quit.
And this is what we need towork on.
(18:56):
And the guy just started cryingand, you know, broke into a
great process group.
Uh, for the other guys, it gavethem the opportunity to step in
and talk about theirexperiences with quitting.
So I'd say some of the cooleststories come out of the mixed
martial arts.
Speaker 1 (19:14):
That's pretty cool.
Yeah, you know, in martial artsmyself I've been off and on for
most of the years of my life,even as a young kid, and do kung
fu locally.
And you know, one of the thingsthat I've always noticed about
being in any studio wheremartial arts is being practiced
(19:34):
and taught is there's always afew guys there that if they
didn't have martial arts I don'tknow where they'd be.
You know what I mean.
If they didn't have this as arelease mechanism, as something
that kind of lived inside ofthem, they might not have the
resources necessary to deal withthe world, because they were.
They were always on edge, butit gave them a place of calm, it
(19:55):
played them a place that theyhad a practice you know what I
mean.
Like they had, they had thisthing, that was a practice of
theirs that they clearly appliedto other aspects of their life,
even if it wasn't fighting, youknow, applied to their job, or
they applied to theirrelationships, or they applied
to their relationships or theyapplied to anything else.
And I mean, I think that's aconcept that you run into when
you do martial arts.
It's like these concepts workacross support.
(20:17):
It's like you're going to facea challenge.
You're going to face somethingthat feels like resistance and
you have to kind of work alittle harder to break through
it.
It's like how are you going tomeet that?
What's in you to try and meetthat?
You'll confront yourself fairlyquickly.
Despite the fact that you mightbe fighting with an opponent,
(20:37):
the person that you'reconfronting is often yourself.
Speaker 2 (20:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:43):
That's really cool, man.
Well, are you finding that theguys, now that you've been doing
this a little while, are they?
Are they sticking with it?
Are they sticking withjiu-jitsu?
Are they picking it up topractice elsewhere?
Or?
Speaker 2 (20:53):
transitioning into the.
Speaker 1 (20:54):
You're seeing guys that are alumni coming back
around and taking classes.
How does that work?
Speaker 2 (20:58):
yeah, some do.
I mean I'm going to be honest,it might be 30 or 40 percent
that do um and who knows, maybemaybe later in life they'll pick
it back up.
But you know, maybe 30 or 40%in the last three to four years
have come back around to like,keep it as a hobby of theirs.
But you know, that's just oneof the activities we're
(21:20):
introducing them to.
We also do like rock climbingand pickleball, and some of
those guys just choose to go adifferent path, right?
Speaker 1 (21:27):
But that's available to them.
If they don't feel comfortablewith this expression, they can
move themselves over tosomething else.
They've got some variety Now.
The other thing I want to talkto you about, because you know
the something that we run intois you know, working with people
and finding programs for themto land in is is the orientation
(21:50):
with 12 step.
I'm not trying to say there'sanything wrong, but I know that
you guys are are prettyversatile in your messaging.
You know you've got you've gotreal capabilities of like let's
explore, let's see.
Okay, you know, maybe you'renot surrendering to a higher
power.
Let's explore this as a concept, though you know that there's
(22:11):
this conversation that can livewith a person who might not have
an immediate alignment.
12 step how is it that you like, do you are you, do you find
resistance out in the recoverycommunity for the way that you
do some of that?
Talk a little bit about yourmethod around it and talk about
what you see in comparison toothers that are more stringent
or more hard-nosed about it, orwhat have you?
(22:32):
What does that look like?
Speaker 2 (22:34):
Yeah, so for us we look at Greenville Transitions
as two separate entities.
There's Greenville Transitions,which is the sober living, and
then there's the GreenvilleTransitions Recovery Center,
which is like our clinical side,and on the clinical side I
think that our job there is tointroduce as many pathways as we
can to recovery, whether thatbe, you know, smart refuge.
(22:57):
There's all different pathwaysyou can take into recovery and
we want you to like see them all.
Take what works for you andleave behind what doesn't, with
there being a little directionin there, because we don't
always make the best choices onwhat's good for us in early
recovery and what's unhealthy.
Speaker 1 (23:17):
It's like you've got some alignment to this method
that we've introduced you to.
Now I need you to invest andcomplete.
You know what I mean?
Yeah, exactly, I need you tofinish complete.
Speaker 2 (23:30):
You know what I mean Like exactly Need you to finish
and so, and then on the housingside, we are a little more 12
step focused and you can get 12steps and different programs and
we don't care which program youchoose to get those.
My argument there is like Ithink working through the 12
steps can benefit anyone.
I think if my mom went throughthe 12 steps that she would get
something positive out of it.
(23:50):
And I don't care if it's onething, I don't care if you go
through a million things andonly pick out one that you think
is positive.
That's a win for me.
So that's kind of been my ouroutlook on that for the house,
like are you running into othermembers of the recovery
community?
Speaker 1 (24:06):
They're like I don't know about that, like, do you
find any resistance out there?
Because I think that we're kindof coming, we're, we're walking
into a world where we all ofour models, all of our
understanding about how recoveryworks and mental and mental
health is treated and so on andso forth they're expanding
because we get these newgenerations of people that are
(24:27):
going through recovery andthey're not.
You know, they're not what youwere as a young adult and
they're not what I was as ayoung adult.
You know their, theirexperience has been completely
different.
Heck, half of them have codedas part of their story.
You know that was traumatizingfor them.
Like, what do you, what are you?
What are you running into inthe rest of the community?
and and how are you, how are younavigating some of that?
(24:50):
Because that community can be alittle funny about those things
.
Speaker 2 (24:55):
Yeah, I mean we haven't been getting a whole lot
of pushback from, like, ourlocal community.
But of course you know whenit's someone coming in to start
groups or whether it's ourevening IOP or coming into our
housing and starting PHP, we'llget a person here and there that
gives a little pushback.
Speaker 1 (25:16):
And this is not the way I did it Right.
What's that?
This is not the way I did it,or this is not the way I think
it's supposed to be done?
Speaker 2 (25:24):
Yes, and my argument would be well, why not try it?
Why not give it a try and let'ssee if, like I said, that one
positive thing can come out ofit, even if it's one, and then
you have all of these others tochoose from and all of these
other avenues you can take.
But you're right that the gameis changing a lot and you know
(25:49):
it's our job as professionals totry to like stay on top of it
and try to offer the bestproduct that you can and what
you really think is going tohelp someone at the end of the
day.
That being said, I think it'salso nice to have different
options of different styles,like the Greenville transition
style isn't going to work foreveryone and I'm like I'm fine
with that.
You know there are a lot ofother programs out there that do
(26:10):
things differently, so it'sabout finding the program that
works best for your style.
Speaker 1 (26:16):
Yeah, there is no one size fits all.
Speaker 2 (26:18):
Basically, I mean I could agree with that more.
I want to touch on that, likewhen we built this program I
mean, lucas and I were heavilyinvolved, or we were the only
ones involved in the beginningas we're creating this program
and nothing else was in our mindas we're creating it other than
like, how can we create thebest program to support
(26:41):
essentially us like anotheryoung, early or late teens,
early twenties, um, mid twenties, late twenties guy who's trying
to change their life and starta lifestyle of recovery?
What would that look like?
And we didn't even factor inlike price and what what these
things would cost to have UFCgym memberships and rock
(27:01):
climbing gym memberships andlet's provide their groceries
instead of let them get theirgroceries and then fight over
groceries.
If we provide them, it takes.
So we thought through all ofthese things like in very great
detail to pick out, like basedon our personal experiences,
what we think is what reallyhelps someone.
But my personal experience, myrecovery experience, isn't going
(27:26):
to align perfectly with everyother person out there and I
have to be okay with that at theend of the day.
Speaker 1 (27:33):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely Well.
I mean, I think that there'ssome.
You know.
What you're touching on is thatthere need to be some core
basics and then philosophically,you can.
You might be able to move indirections that are
differentiating here or there,but guys are taken care of, the
house is run well, the potentialfor conflict is managed In a
(27:58):
supported living environment.
I don't think people thinkabout it, but it's one of the,
it's one of the greatestchallenges you face all the time
is like guys having conflictwith one another, and they will.
They will have conflicts overanything.
They'll mess with each other'sstuff.
They'll, you know, they'llborrow somebody's front seat,
(28:18):
right.
They'll borrow somebody else'sclothes and you know, they'll
steal somebody's special thingout of the refrigerator, like
the whole all of it, anythingthat can happen.
They'll find, um, and sometimesbecause they're just testing
the limits, right, but um, and Ithink the other pieces, many of
them are looking for a place to, to find it being validated
that they don't belong here.
See, I can't get along with anyof these guys or whatever, you
(28:39):
know they're fine.
They're looking for a place tofind it being validated that
they don't belong here.
See, I can't get along with anyof these guys, or whatever.
They're testing the limits andthere's, I think, the
self-consciousness piece, theself-efficacy piece that they
struggle with so much, even atthat stage of recovery.
(28:59):
They've been through treatment,they've been through a lot of
clinical.
They get to you and they'restill wanting in here.
It's like I don't belong in theworld and I don't get along
with anybody and I don't fit,and all these other messages
that they're saying tothemselves and they try to.
They try to validate thatmessage somewhere in their
environment, you know, andthey'll make you into dad and
they'll make the you know thefemale therapist into mom and
(29:25):
they'll make the you know thefemale therapist into mom and
they'll project till the cowscome home and everything else,
and it's really a like a.
It's really a.
It's a human psychologymanagement environment is what
it becomes.
Yeah, drama triangle, insertdrama triangle exactly.
And of course you know, if theydon't have that, if they don't
do that stuff, then then youknow you don't get to yank out,
(29:48):
pull out the mirror and makesure that they are, you know,
like, hey, here's this mirror, Iwonder if you'd be willing to
take a look at it.
I wonder if that's somethingthat we should work on and that
really becomes, you know, the.
The other experiential thingthat's going on is that living
environment.
Right, yeah, they're coming outand going.
Now these are my conflicts andthat's the same conflict I had
(30:10):
with the last guy and that's theconflict I had with my dad and
that's the conflict I had when Iwas at college and everything
else.
Like, they just find itreplicated in their life and
it'll keep giving themopportunities to face it.
It'll in their life and it'llkeep giving them opportunities
to face it.
It'll keep showing up if theydon't work with it and figure
out a way to get around it andput it in a good place in their
life.
But the other thing I wanted toask before we get done, david,
(30:32):
is with regard to your clinicalenvironment and your sober
living environment, is theclinical environment available
only to the sober living guys?
Are you also providing that nowto the Greenville community?
You have outside folks cominginto your, your, your PHP and
IOP.
Speaker 2 (30:51):
We do offer services to the community as well.
So all of our daytimeprogramming is for our housing
and the younger guys that are inthat population.
And then in the evenings wehave and it's like a standard
evening or professionals IOPit's Monday, tuesday, thursday
nights from six to 9 PM.
Speaker 1 (31:10):
That's more of our professionals group, where we
help just the local communityhere, local community that's in
recovery but staying home andneeds a place to to do their
work.
Speaker 2 (31:21):
Maybe they have a family, or maybe they don't have
the luxury of just taking a bigbreak in life and going
inpatient somewhere.
So they have a job that theyhave to, you know, keep earning
a check out, or a family thatthey need to tend to kids.
So that's been a good resourcehere.
Speaker 1 (31:38):
Well, that's awesome.
As you know, I'm a bigsupporter of your the work you
guys are doing down there and,um, I hope that we'll be working
again soon with one of ourfolks that'll come down your way
but and I hope to get to seeyou guys here pretty soon.
You're not that far away.
We're way down to Greenvilleand we'll do a little swamp
rabbit time, you know.
So, um, david, it's been greatto have you on the show.
(32:01):
This has been, uh, head insidemental health with todd
weatherly.
David bignese, ceo andexecutive director of greenville
transition, has been my guest.
Uh, we'll look forward to beingwith you folks next time.
Speaker 2 (32:12):
Take care, david.
Thanks for having me.
I found you in this way.
I did it this way.
I found you in this way.
I did it this way.
I found you in this way.
I did it this way.
I found you in this way.
I found you in this way.
(32:32):
I did it this way.
I found you in this way.
I found you in this way.
I found you in this way.
Speaker 1 (33:51):
I did it this way.
I found you in this way, thankyou, I need to find my way home.
Bye, I need to find my way home.
I feel so lonely and lost inhere.
I need to find my way home.
Find my way home.
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