HHNW Ep. 032 - John Trull, VP Sales and Marketing, Triijicon

Welcome to HeadHuntersNW Podcast! I'm Shaylene Keiner, an executive recruiter with a passion for the global defense, small arms and shooting sectors.  Join me as I sit down with top executives and industry leaders to dive deep into the world of global manufacturing, service companies, non-profits and more. Together, we explore the latest trends, innovations, and the inspiring stories behind the people who drive this dynamic industry forward. Whether you're a seasoned pro or just curious about what makes this world tick, you're in for engaging conversations that go beyond the surface. Let's uncover the fascinating stories and insights that shape the global defense, small arms and shooting sectors. Subscribe now and become a part of our community!

In this episode, Shaylene interviews John Trull, VP of Sales and Marketing at Trijicon. The discussion delves into John's extensive career, starting from his roots in manufacturing to his pivotal roles at Remington and Hunter Specialties. John reflects on the challenges he faced and the lessons he learned, highlighting the importance of hard work, trusting instincts, and thoughtful risk-taking in leadership. He also shares insights on managing growth, building successful teams, and the recent strategic shift at Trijicon to an internal sales force. Throughout, John offers valuable advice for aspiring professionals seeking to enter the outdoor and firearms industry.

 

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Episode Transcript

(00:01):
Welcome to another episode ofHeadhunters Northwest podcast.
I am absolutely thrilled to have JohnTrull, the VP of sales and marketing
at Trijicon as my guest today.
I welcome John and I really thinkthat we really should go through a
little bit of your background becauseyou've done so many things and When

(00:23):
I met you, I remember every minute.
I was so nervous.
Do you remember when we met?
I think we actually met face to face.
Wasn't it at the, at the shot show?
Yes,
it was at ATA.
That's right.
Just taking that job.
And I was so nervous.
And you were so nice.
I was so shocked that when I left,I think I was shaking like a leaf.

(00:46):
Why isn't that funny?
Why were you nervous?
Well, because I didn't know what youlooked like and someone had to point you
out and I was, I hadn't met you and, and Ithought, oh, that was silly to be nervous.
And of course, it's been so fun to see youand get to know you more over the years.
Yeah, I'm so intimidating, right?
It
can be.
It can be.

(01:06):
You're not.
Thanks for having me on and youknow, really, I have, loved
getting to know you over the years.
That was, that seems like a long time ago.
It really wasn't all that long ago,but you know, 2015, 2016, so you know,
we're cruising close to a decade there.
So Yeah, it's hard to believe.
Right.
Yeah.
You know, I, I appreciate you havingme on and honored to, to, to be able

(01:27):
to spend a few minutes with you and,you know, it's, it's interesting.
A, I've got a, you know, it'san interesting background you
know, in terms of even just howI kind of got into this industry.
You know, I, I grew up, I was alifelong hunter, fisherman, outdoors
person, and you know, You know,just, just love the outdoors.
And I remember back in, gosh, it wasthe mid nineties, like 94, 95, when

(01:49):
Remington moved their headquartersto the North Carolina, and I was, you
know, working just out of college.
I was in the textileindustry and manufacturing.
That's kind of where I cut my teethin, in So it's funny, everybody thinks
of me as kind of product management,sales marketing you know, a lot of,
a lot of background there, but Iactually, you know, my origins as
far as my career is in manufacturing.
And so I think that that's been that's,that's been beneficial to me, but

(02:12):
just remember when they moved theirheadquarters there, I just blindly
reached out to their HR departmentand they're like, no, don't need,
don't need anybody like you, you know?
And so I was like, okay,well that door's closed.
But a few years later I had a friendwho was he was of all things, he's
like the Western regional sales managerfor AT& T in North Carolina and in
Remington was one of his accounts.
And he, and I shared a lot of thesame passions of the outdoors.

(02:34):
He's like, you really,you need to go work there.
And I was like, they, they already,you know, they hung up on me once.
So I, you know, this waslike, Summer of 2000, I think.
And I think probably their websitehad just gone live and they had a
careers page on there and they wererecruiting for a, for a product manager.
I read the job description.
I'm like,
ah, I can
probably.

(02:55):
do that.
And I made kind of a deal with himthat if he could at least get me,
get me in the door and with theright person, I would buy him dinner.
And he did.
So I sent my resume in and youknow, kind of the rest is history.
I always joke with the A lot of the,the, the senior guys at the time at
Remington, Jay Bunning, Art Wheaton SeanDwyer, you know, those guys are just

(03:17):
legendary in terms of this industry.
They were all in Africawhen I came into interview.
So I always joke with them.
I'm like, the only reason I gotthe jobs cause you guys didn't know
anything about, about the business.
We're gone.
But you know, it was great for me toto, to get into get into Remington.
And I started out in productmanagement and just You know, I
just, you know, there weren't a lotof, weren't a lot of parameters in

(03:38):
terms of what I was supposed to do.
So I just, you know, just rolled mysleeves up and went to work and started
working on, you know, strategic plans,looking at you know, white space
opportunities for the, for the business.
And you know, it was reallyapparent once I got in there that.
You know, it was, this was August of2000 really hadn't been a whole lot new
from Remington in terms of, you know,meaningful new products in 20, 30 years.

(04:02):
You know, when you really looked atit and some line extensions and things
like that, but we were still tradingoff the legacy of the 1100 you know, in
our category, and of course the eight70 was, was, was still huge, but you
know, so for me, it was a, it was agreat opportunity to get in and, and
You know, just, just start working hard.
And, and you know, I, I really kind ofembedded myself with the manufacturing

(04:24):
team because I felt like really to dothat job well as a product manager,
I really needed to understand.
you know, how the products were madeto know everything about the process.
And in doing so I, you know, learneda ton of, you know, about firearms
manufacturing everything from shotguns,rifles, handguns, ultimately modern

(04:44):
sporting rifles, you know, the, the gamut.
So really understood those factoriesinside and out, understood the
processes and, you know, ultimately.
When I was I guess it was about 2012.
I moved into the SBP GM role forthe firearms business at Remington.
I was, I was pretty well versed,I think, then operationally, of
course, having the, the, the roots inmanufacturing really, really helped.

(05:07):
So, yeah, for me, it was great because youknow, I could sit in front of a customer.
And based on what they were describing,I could, I could really visualize and I
could give them an answer pretty much onthe spot, whether it's something we could
do or whether we couldn't do it in termsof, you know, whether it was a special
makeup product or something like that.
And so really understanding theconstraints of those factories
and you know, ultimately.

(05:28):
You know, really, really helped me in, interms of my careers as, as it evolved, so,
well.
Well, your career grew a lot in Remington.
I mean, you, you didclimb the ladder there.
It's funny, you know, I've heard thatbefore, climb the ladder, but what was.
It was really interesting.
If I kind of reflect back on it,for the most part, the doors that

(05:49):
opened for me at Remington reallywere doors that weren't there.
It were, it was doors thatwere built and created.
And you know, I, I tell peoplethat, you know, I, I get you know,
people within, you know, my team,you know, here or other places that
are like, well, how can I grow?
And I'm like, well, you grow as we grow.
And as we grow that creates otheropportunities and it creates

(06:11):
doors that didn't exist before.
And it creates new opportunitiesbecause when we, you know, when we
build things to a certain point, youknow, it takes, it takes more people.
It takes more help toto, to carry the torch.
And so, you know, a lot of thoseopportunities that opened up for me
at Remington were opportunities thatthat were created just by growth.
And you know, I think that's a veryimportant, you know, point for people

(06:34):
to, to, to, to understand you know,it just, we're, you know, in general,
this industry is relatively small.
I mean, we think of it, you know, in,in our lens, it's, it's, you know, it's
a, it's a big, it's a big world outthere, but, you know, when you look
at it globally, in terms of, of, youknow, large companies, really large
companies, there's some really largecompanies out there that probably have.

(06:55):
you know, a market cap, thesize of our entire industry,
you know, so it's or more.
So, you know, from that standpoint,you know, those opportunities, it's
not like You know, this isn't youknow, it's not like General Electric
or something where, you know, there'sthese, you know, destined paths for
people to go down as they as theykind of learn and mature as managers.

(07:16):
And so a lot of our opportunitiesreally in this industry come from,
you know, really rolling yoursleeves up, going after it and
creating opportunities for growth.
So it's I don't, I tellpeople never underestimate.
You know how impactful, you know, youractions are in terms of not only your
your your Actions in terms of how theyrelate to the company and its growth,

(07:39):
but your personal growth as well It'sit's it's really it's really important.
You know for people
That's saying yes, though You know whenyou have when you're handed a challenge,
which I know you have been on many rolesyou've taken And there isn't a roadmap
And you say, yes, I'll figure it out.
I mean that it does take beingbrave and being resourceful,

(08:02):
brave, resourceful, and, andreally trusting your instincts.
You know, that that's something thatyou know, I tell people, you know, if it
doesn't feel right, it probably isn't,you know, I'm not saying, you know, go
off and just, you know, think about itlong and hard, you know, because it, you
know, sometimes things, if it doesn'tsmell right, it probably isn't right.
And so I tell people, you know, youhave to trust your instincts and, and,

(08:24):
and trust your, and trust your gut too.
Yeah.
Now, when you left Remington afterthat period of time, which was
a lot of change and growth, thenwhere, where did you go next?
So I left Remington I went towork for hunter specialties in
the hunting accessory category.

(08:44):
It was, that was a tough one.
And that's when I
met you.
Yeah.
You talk about challenges yeah.
And, and I'll go back to, you know, aboutwhat I said about trust in your gut.
You know, I, we had actually, I guessI can say this now 'cause it's so
long ago and, and, you know, companieshave, have, have gone away, but,

(09:04):
right.
You know, we
actually had looked at acquiring HunterSpecialties when I was at Remington.
They were.
They were owned by the bank at thattime, highly, highly distressed.
Just, you know, in, in really onthe ropes and, and probably, you
know, months, if not weeks away fromjust being completely insolvent.
And, you know, we looked atthem at the time and, and I kept
struggling with how do you grow it?

(09:26):
How, how do we, how dowe really grow this?
And you know, I, I late in 2014,I was introduced to the a PE
firm that had acquired them.
And they had put together a a really, youknow, I would call it aggressive plan.
Mm-Hmm, , because I kepttrying to do the math on you.
You know, how much of that businessused to rely solely on Walmart?

(09:48):
A lot of that business had gone away.
The retailers had moved, you know, alot of the, you know, tree stand hooks
and burlap and things like that, justcommodity items that anybody could
source themselves from, from wherever.
Yeah.
And many of them had done that.
And so, you know, for me to, to say,how do you take something that's, you
know, 24, 25 million with an averageselling price of about seven bucks.

(10:10):
You know, and, and meaningfully grow that,you know, I, I was, I had some concerns
but you know, these guys had put togethera pretty aggressive, you know, plan but,
you know, it just didn't come together.
And at the end of the day, youknow, it's no fault of their own.
I mean, it just, the marketwasn't great during that time.
Yep.
I remember.
Hunting accessory category.

(10:31):
Archery was tough, you know, and, andwe were not, you know, we were that
kind of middle of the road entry levelto mid level, you know, price point
in the hunting accessory category.
And, you know, a lot of the businessthat hunters had relied on for many,
many years was now being sourceddirect by a lot of these retailers.
And it was really, really tough to do.
A tough environment.
And so, you know, that was, you know,when I talk about, you know, trusting

(10:54):
your, your instincts and trusting yourgut you know, for me looking back on it
and, and I don't regret it because I thinkevery, every opportunity that you have,
you know, you win some and you lose some,and what's most important coming out of
those situations is what did you learn?
How can you improve and how doyou grow you know, based on that.

(11:16):
And so I, I joke with people sometimes.
I've been in some pretty highlydistressed situations at Remington twice.
The second time was really tough and youknow, Hunter Specialties was another one.
And, and, you know, the, the mostvaluable thing I think I've learned
about being in those really highlydistressed environments is just
making sure you don't get there.
Because it's, it's just, it's.

(11:40):
Companies oftentimes fall into,and we see this in our industry,
we have peak times and we have, andit's not a surprise, you know, when
the business softens up, you know,people act, act like they're shocked.
None of us are really shocked.
We know it's going to happen.
You know, it's just, you know, we're a,we're an event driven industry sometimes.
And you know, it's, it's, it's somewhatcyclical and generally speaking, you
know, when you have those lulls, You know,if you were to just kind of graph that,

(12:04):
take the, the, the peaks and valleys outof it, it's a pretty nice, steady, you
know, compound annual growth rate, youknow, for, for our industry and, and, and
for the, the subsequent companies there.
And so, you know, just it's easyfor companies to fall into a trap.
I think sometimes of, you know, thingsare so great, what goes up stays
up and they overextend themselves.

(12:24):
You know, they, they start adding alot of fixed costs to the business.
They bring in more people.
You know, they start expanding capacitythat if you step back and look at that
and say, can we maintain that capacity andin an average market in a typical market?
And so, you know, companiesjust get themselves.
In a whole cash wise you know, from aworking capital standpoint, they just

(12:46):
tie up all their cash and you know, bringon a, bring on more operating expense
and, you know, it's, it's really, youknow, having some fiscal discipline in
terms of managing, you know, the businessthrough what we know are going to be
peaks and valleys in this industry.
And yeah, so for me, that was a.
That was a, a really, you know,a, a valuable, valuable lesson.

(13:07):
You know, for me, yeah,it was a great experience.
It just, it's one of those ones thatjust, that one just didn't work out and
you know, it, it just, it isn't becauseof any one person or any one thing.
It was just, you know, a series of
Yeah.
But it helps you
fine tune your skills for now, youknow, look at how far you've come
in your career compared to, thenyou make decisions differently

(13:28):
now because of that experience.
Yeah, absolutely.
I mean, you really, you really take along pause and you look at, you know,
things that maybe once upon a timedidn't really concern you so much in
terms of looking at, at, at inventoryor, you know, operating expense.
I'm a firm believer in, you know, Iwould rather, I would rather us stretch
ourselves in terms of, you know,human capital than to bring someone

(13:52):
in or people, you know, a group ofpeople in only to, you know, be in a
period 18 to 24 months later where.
You've got to make some tough decisionsand you know, you're messing with
people's lives when you do that.
And, and, you know, if we, if wetake that for granted it's just,
just not the right thing to do.
And so I would rather stretch ourselves.

(14:12):
you know, and, and to the point wherewe're about to, we're about to bust
at the seams in terms of being able tobefore and really make sure that if we
need to add headcount, that we know,you know, why we're adding it and is
it going to be sustainable longterm?
Yeah.
I think the people part of our industry,there are some very recognizable brands.

(14:33):
That are, they have the reputationof caring for their people and maybe
they're not as racy and maybe they'renot as quick to market with new
things, but they've proven they're nota flash in the pan and their tenure
for their employees is long term.
sometimes to a fault and sometimesthat's okay because you really don't

(14:56):
lose all of that knowledge base.
When we have, when we have companiesthat are quick to make decisions
and a flash in the pan, then youlose all of that knowledge base and
you have to start over every time.
And it's very expensive and it'svery hard on any sort of product
development or any sort of consistency.

(15:18):
Yeah, consistency and steady and, and,you know, being very meticulous and
calculated in terms of how you make,make decisions is really important.
And you're right.
You know, when you look back at.
Yeah, some of the brands in our industrythat have continued to do well and
thrive, you know, they may not be theflashiest, but they're just steady.
They're steady and they're consistent.

(15:40):
They, they have a plan thatthey're, that they're operating
to and they stick with the plan.
And, you know, if an opportunityarises they have the ability to
capitalize on it because they'vegot the dry powder to do that.
Right.
You know, they have the, they have thecash to be able to, to take advantage of
a, of an opportunity without leveragingthemselves with a bunch of debt to
be able to to, to acquire somethingor you know, make a strategic move.

(16:02):
And so I think that that levelof discipline you know, we see
that in a lot, in, in a fewcompanies in our industry and, and.
You know, they may not be, you know, the,the, the, the flashy whiz bang thing of
the day, but they do very, very well.
And you know, and it's, that's important,you know, when it comes to your
stakeholders, your shareholders and,and and the employees of your company,

(16:25):
it's really, it's really a big deal.
So your leadership, I'm, I wasn't surehow I wanted to talk about this, but I,
a lot of people who listen to this aregoing to know you from our industry.
And you have a tremendous following andI have been around you enough and the
people who've worked for you who wouldhappily work for you again any day of the

(16:48):
week your leadership is and it's just Ithink it's whatever it is you're doing.
People love to work for you,and they love to be around you.
You have a great sense of humorand you support their growth, but
I think also hold them to task.
I know there have been times whereI've called you for reference based
on someone that I'm working with,and you're very good about saying,

(17:11):
Well, I think these are areas towatch or areas they're working on.
I don't know how far they've gotten,but and they're very point on point.
So how would you describe?
Your leadership style
player coach is probably the wayI would, I would categorize it.
You know, I, I, but to the pointof, you know, and this was something

(17:33):
that I struggled with early on in mycareer is giving people enough leeway.
And
it's hard to do when, you know, when youlook at something and you know how you
would you would do it yourself and youjust go, I can get this done much quicker.
And I think a lot of us fall into thattrap, but, you know, you find yourself,

(17:57):
you know, you do that and all of asudden, you know, everybody's coming to
you with everything and it's not helpingyou and it's not helping the company
and it's certainly not helping them.
So, you know, I, I try to.
I'm not, I'm never going toask people to do something that
I'm not willing to do myself.
So, you know, I will gladly roll mysleeves up and, and, you know, get to

(18:18):
work right alongside you if you need,if you need help, guidance, perspective
you know, that's something that I'm, I'malways going to be there as a resource to,
to offer because, you know, ultimately.
I think we as managers become betterand better at our jobs because if we

(18:38):
have a great team around us and if wecan, if we can build those, those teams
up and empower those people with theconfidence and the skills that they
need to be successful, then ultimatelyit frees us up to focus on other things
and let the people do their jobs.
And that, that's hard for alot of people to do is to let

(18:59):
people do their jobs because.
You know, well, they might mess it up.
Yep.
They're going to, something'sgoing to get messed up.
And those are great opportunities because,you know, I, I believe in being I think
that, you know, as leaders that we need tobe compassionate as well, because people,
you know, when you, when you scream andyell at people all the time, when they

(19:19):
make a mistake, everybody makes mistakes.
I've made mistakes.
You know, the people that the guythat's yelling at me has made mistakes.
You know, we've all done that.
And you know, when you do that to peopleyou get less out of them, I think,
in terms of what they're capable of,because they become more focused on
not screwing up than being successful.

(19:39):
And you know, look in, in being, youknow, being compassionate doesn't
necessarily mean not holding peopleaccountable, but I've really found that.
You know, if you, if you, if youuse those opportunities as teaching
moments and, you know, you point outin a, in a professional and, and, and
meaningful way, okay, let's talk aboutwhat you did and why it didn't work.

(20:01):
What I've found is you start to seea lot more self accounting because,
because that person's not so much worriedabout getting their butt chewed out.
And they know that that you know, that,that it's an opportunity for them to kind
of self evaluate, look at what they didand a lot of times, you know, I'll have
folks come to me and say, hey, look.
We did this.

(20:21):
I did this.
It didn't quite work out.
Here's why it didn't work out.
Here's what we're going to doto make sure it's not going
to happen again in the future.
You know, it just, it, they grow andyou get, you know, you get a, you get a
better work product at the end of the dayfrom, from the organization standpoint.
So.
You know, I just, you know,I, I try to be a mentor.
You know, look, sometimes, you know,sometimes you have to make some of

(20:45):
those tough calls, but you know, Iwould say majority of the time, majority
of people want to do a good job.
They want to do the right thing.
People.
I mean, in my experience, becausetwo of them that I know of that
I've worked with, you know, one iseffectively a CEO is the general manager.
And the other one is achief revenue officer.
And these people.

(21:06):
are very different personalities,but yet somehow you're able
to, you're able to do that.
I just think you should quit whatyou're doing and become a recruiter.
Better at it than me.
No, but let, but your team now.
So right now you're working withTrijicon, as we mentioned, and your
leadership has come into play again,because you guys have just gone to

(21:31):
a model where you're, you've hiredan entire Salesforce internally,
and that's, that's a big decision.
And it's a, it's a tough decision.
You've just createdmore work for yourself.
Yeah, I mean, you know, at the end ofthe day, it is a, it is a tough decision
and it's one of those that, you know,it's really easy to sit back and go, you

(21:54):
know, what happens if it doesn't work?
Right?
You know, everybody's going to ask thatquestion, you know, because there's
this, there's this little, you know,kind of security blanket that you
know, you've got, you know, and look,by the way, I, Our, our rep group that
that we were working with, I can't sayenough good things about those guys.
They, they represented Trijiconwell for, for many, many years.

(22:15):
And it's a tough, it's a tough job.
Yeah.
You know, working in that space.
We're very fortunate to havesome very, very talented and very
good rep groups in our industry.
And they're made up of incredible people.
But this is not uncommon and they knowthis where companies evolve and change
and they move on and they grow thenext company and they bring exposure

(22:37):
to companies that could never evenbegin to have an internal sales force.
That's very, I mean, very true.
I mean, for companies thatare, that have a great product.
Maybe they just don't have the, youknow, the, the, the capital to bring
on, you know, a big direct sales team.
You know, the, the, the rep groups,the agencies are, are great for that.

(22:59):
And, and these guys did a really goodjob for Trijicon for many, many years,
but I think we had kind of grown.
to the point where you know, ourline was much broader than it
was, you know, 10, 15 years ago.
And so you know, it really, reallyrequired that kind of that full time,
you know, person to be focused juston, on our product and our brands and,

(23:22):
yeah
customers.
And so it's always a tough,it's a tough decision.
But, you know, it's, it's, if you have, ifyou prepare and I, and I don't think you
can over prepare for something like this.
And so it all goes into how muchplanning and preparation you put into it.
And our, our team didjust a phenomenal job.

(23:42):
Gary Sweet, he's our seniordirector of sales, did a, did a
you know, phenomenal job with histeam of mapping out territories.
Our human resource team was top notchin terms of, you know, Getting the right
people to go out and fill, you know, 15,16 positions relatively quickly that have
specific geographic needs and specificskill sets is not an easy thing to do.

(24:05):
And our team just did a phenomenal job.
And then you know, the other, the otheraspect of that is really taking the time
to train these folks and give them thetools and their toolkit to be successful.
And you know, our, our, our sales teamdid a really fantastic job of putting
together a training program for our team.
You know, the first half of guysthat we've hired have already
been through that training.

(24:26):
We're about to, to take on the secondhalf of and bring those, those folks in
and put them through an intensive, youknow, sales one on one training, and
then spend several days with the productmanagers, really getting them up to
speed with, You know, the features andbenefits of our products, how to sell our
products against our competitors products.
And they, they did a really, reallynice job and, and you know what, when

(24:50):
we, you know, everybody gets nervouswe haven't missed a beat, you know,
we, if anything we're, we're, we're,we're in a better position, you know,
this year than we were last year.
We're really fortunate.
And we, you know, the, we always,you know, we, we identified, yeah,
here's some risk, you but, you know,the, the, the upside on that far

(25:10):
exceeded any of that, any of that risk.
And so we, we Yeah, I don't want tosay that we were fortunate because
I think we plan to be successful.
And you know, the plans working
well and growth doesn't oftencome without some sort of risk.
And if you mitigate your risk withyour planning and training like you've
described, I think that's very hard forcompanies to do because you're stretched

(25:33):
so thin and everybody's demanding andcustomers internally and externally.
And I think it's great forTrijicon and I'm thrilled.
I, I certainly own a couple ofTrijicon's optics and they're,
they're wonderful product.
And I, I just think it's great whenyou can bring more people in and
do a better job of explaining yourproduct to those you're selling to.

(25:57):
Yeah.
And you know, I think the riskthing, you know, the calculated risk
is you know, that's a big point.
You know, I, I usually tell you, and someof the, some of the folks that you know,
that have worked with me in the past.
Probably heard this before, but, youknow, if, if what we're doing doesn't
make us a little bit uncomfortable,we're probably not doing enough.
Because it's so easy to justkind of fall back into that.

(26:18):
Well, it's just easier to let thingsjust kind of be as they've always been.
And so I think we, you know, we don'tgrow unless we, we push ourselves
outside of our comfort zone sometimes.
That doesn't mean
it's a good reminder.
I forget that sometimes I really do.
I'll try to remember that.
Cause it is hard.
You get to the point where you'relike, I can't do one more thing.
Yeah, right.

(26:39):
Well, now as we wrap this up Ikind of wanted to see if you had
any advice for your younger self.
You know, a lot of people want to getinto our industry and you didn't give up,
you know, you applied and then you foundanother way that somebody knew somebody.
So, you know, how could we give adviceto people who want to be fortunate

(27:01):
enough to get to work in this industry?
Because I just think it's a huge blessing.
The people are incredible.
I agree.
I mean, it's a, it's such a great,I mean, even, even the, the folks
that we compete with fiercely youknow, you, you, you've seen it
before we, you know, we're, we're so.
It's such a tight knit group of people.
And you know, even our competitors,we, you know, we can, we can be we can

(27:22):
be friendly with, with those folks.
And, and it's, and I don'tthink you see that everywhere.
But you know, I would say you know,some advice for folks that are looking
to get into the industry is, you know,really understand, you know, what you
want to do, why you want to do it.
I would say, prepare yourself,put yourself into a position to
where you know, you're, you're,you're an attractive candidate.

(27:44):
So, you know, take the time to researchthe different companies that you're
interested in to, to learn about themand then find out, you know, whether
it's through LinkedIn or, or otherplaces, you know, network and, and you
know It's sometimes, you know, those,we open up some of those doors and,
and just, just through, just throughnetworks and contacts and you know,
it, and I would say, you know, bepatient you know, the, the jobs don't

(28:08):
always, you know, they're, they're not.
You know, sometimes they don't come upas frequently as we'd like to, but you
know, go to, you know, those, thosecompanies, websites you know, we've
got a you know, has a careers pagethat you know, I encourage folks to
visit and because, you know, if we havea job, it's going to be posted there
you know, typically, so to, to go tothose, you know, those, those companies
websites and, and, and look at what'sout there and you know, I would, you

(28:33):
know, just, you know, Go in with a plan.
You know, if you, if you do get aninterview you know, prepare yourself
to, to be successful, go in with a plan.
You know, speak to that plan and youknow, don't be afraid to sell yourself.
You know, don't, don't, don't oversellyourself, you know, don't, don't put
yourself out there and, you know, fromthe standpoint of that, you know, at all.

(28:53):
Cause you don't.
particularly as a new personstarting out in a career.
But I've also found it to be reallyimpactful to, you know, just share your
passion and why it's important to youand how you, you know, how this is, is
something that you've really wanted to do.
I think, you know, for me,that's a big selling point.
When I talk to people, it's like,do they really want to be here?

(29:14):
Are they really interested in this job?
Or are they, you know, interested in, youknow, a bigger title you know, potentially
a bigger paycheck or just trying to getout of the job that they're in currently.
So, you know, really
for solving that problem and if theycan get in there and prove themselves
and help you solve that problem, then asthe company grows, the doors will open.

(29:38):
Yeah, that's
right.
That's right.
And, you know, I tell people, youknow, don't, don't force an answer.
You know, when, when someone asks youa question in an interview, If you need
more, if you need clarification, you know,ask some clarifying, you know, questions.
Don't just necessarily try to wing it.
Take the time to, to, to,to, to, to, to absorb it.
And if you don't know, say, youdon't know, you know, don't make

(30:00):
something up because you know, chancesare the person that's asking the
question already knows the answer.
And you know, you're not gonna, you'renot gonna get that past them, but.
Yeah.
So that's, you know, some advice that Iwould give for people that are looking
in to getting into the industry.
And I would say.
For folks that are, you know, kindof just starting out their careers
in general you know, just don'tunderestimate the value of, of hard work.

(30:27):
I mean, you know, nothing.
We all hear the, you know, the, thethe overnight success stories and
those are always told by someone.
who wasn't there.
The ones that were successful spentmany nights on those success stories.
So you know, it, it just, those thingstypically don't just, they don't
just you know, fall out of a tree.

(30:48):
You don't all
start out in the job we dream of.
Right.
That's right.
You don't, you know, even being selfemployed, I, I didn't start out at
working on the jobs I dreamt of.
You have to work hard and sometimes youhave to, to put in the experience and
maybe it's not your dream job or thatparticular project isn't your favorite,

(31:09):
but you will learn something from it.
Even the hard ones, even the thingsabout what not to do, you'll learn.
And that's valuable for whereyou are in your career now.
And, and it certainly is what.
Brings experience.
Yeah, it, yeah, I tell mykids that all the time.
I'm like, you know, your dreamjob is probably not your first

(31:30):
job, you know, but one of thoseexperiences is a building block.
It's, it's you know, just,it, it strengthens your mind.
You you, you learn different thingsand you know, it just helps you
grow as a, as a, as a leader and youknow, take none of those things for
granted and take everything as anopportunity to learn something from it.
That's, that's it.
Absolutely.
You know, great advice.

(31:50):
You know, we just, youknow, that is how we grow.
You ever,
you remember what your first jobwas like, you know, for mine was,
of course I was babysitting when Iwas a kid, but I, my first job that
I really remember, oh, and I justhated it was putting alfalfa sprouts.
In little plastic containersfor the store, right?

(32:11):
The other day I bought somealfalfa sprouts and it just
brought it right back to me
And you know,
it's such a weird job But I was cold allthe time and I just hated that because
it was in a refrigerator But I learneda lot because you had to go to work
every day and you had to do it Anyway,
yeah, I you know, I I started working.
I guess my first job was I was 16you know in high school and and part

(32:33):
time and I was working as a as acashier at Bradley's Department Store.
Yeah, so.
Well, you learn about a lotabout people, don't you?
Actually, it was a bag boy at Kroger.
That was my very first, yeah,that was my very first job, so.
Well, you learned how to baggroceries the right way, then.
That's when they taught youhow to bag groceries, probably.

(32:55):
Oh, yeah, yeah, that's right.
That's right.
So a
lot of times I don't mind myself checkout because I already I'm already trained
Exactly.
I'm going to remember that Well, thankyou very much john and we will include
the careers page link for trigicon onthis podcast, wherever it's posted in the
comments or wherever it's appropriate,but we would we really, I really thank you

(33:18):
for coming and thank you for doing this.
I know you're so, so busy, but it'ssuch a pleasure and I'm really honored.
And it's just always fun to see you.
You're such a really outstandingpeople, person, and an amazing leader.
So I look forward to many yearsof seeing you at trade shows.
They'll
be coming up again soon, but Ireally do appreciate the time.

(33:41):
And it's been, it's been greatbeing on this podcast with you
and you know, look forward to,look forward to seeing you soon.
Well, we really appreciate it.
That's it for another episode ofHeadhunters Northwest podcast.
Thank you for listening.