October 1, 2024 • 21 mins
Welcome to HeadHuntersNW Podcast! I'm Shaylene Keiner, an executive recruiter with a passion for the global defense, small arms and shooting sectors. Join me as I sit down with top executives and industry leaders to dive deep into the world of global manufacturing, service companies, non-profits and more. Together, we explore the latest trends, innovations, and the inspiring stories behind the people who drive this dynamic industry forward. Whether you're a seasoned pro or just curious about what makes this world tick, you're in for engaging conversations that go beyond the surface. Let's uncover the fascinating stories and insights that shape the global defense, small arms and shooting sectors. Subscribe now and become a part of our community!
This episode of HeadHunters NW Podcast features a repeat guest, Gary Ramey, CEO of Liberty Ammunition. We discuss the exciting changes and innovations at Liberty Ammunition since our last conversation in January 2023. Gary delves into the specifics of ammunition design, emphasizing the importance of energy transfer and bullet behavior. We also explore Liberty Ammunition's new products tailored for law enforcement and military use, with a focus on higher lethality and weight savings. Gary shares insights into the testing and development process, and the company’s commitment to supporting veterans and creating a positive workplace culture. Join us for our conversation about the latest advancements in ammunition technology.
Website: https://libertyammo.com/
Contact: info@libertyammo.com
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00:00 Welcome and Introduction
00:45 Liberty Ammunition's Unique Selling Points
02:43 Innovations and Military Contracts
05:46 Weight and Practical Benefits
08:52 Company Background and Development
14:46 Product Testing and Performance
17:58 Team and Company Culture
20:12 Conclusion and Final Thoughts
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Okay, welcome to this episodeof Headhunters NW Podcast.
I am excited to have, I think, myfirst repeat guest ever, Gary Ramey.
And I looked and we did apodcast in January of 23.
So, I mean, we're due.
And a lot has changedat Liberty Ammunition.
(00:21):
And Gary is the CEO of Liberty Ammunition.
A lot.
You've done a lot of work andthere's been a lot of change there.
Well, there has.
It's been a lot of fun.
But first of all, thank youvery much for having me.
And I can't believe it's been thatlong since we've gotten together for
a podcast, but I always enjoy it.
And I do watch podcasts.
So it's a great way to stayconnected in the industry.
(00:44):
Well, we're glad to have you.
And I personally carry Libertyammunition in my concealed carry.
I just think it's the best stuff ever.
You know there's a lot of greatammunition companies out there and a
lot of great products, but frankly,it's a bit of a commodity product.
Most of the people are the same.
It's a one 15 grain, one 24 grain, one47 grain and traveling at, you know,
(01:10):
950 feet per second or 1100 or 1200.
And they all.
Perform about the same in termsof energy transfer, which is the
one thing that everybody forgetsreally a bullet transfers energy.
So then it comes down to bullet behavior.
What happens when thebullet strikes the target?
And that's where you know, whenyou make the comparison, the
(01:31):
ball ammo is just ball ammo.
It just typically will go rightthrough and hollow points designed
to open up in front and create aslightly bigger wound channel, but
it's still a temporary wound channel.
And you know, that's where our productsmake the difference not only the way we're
designed, but the speeds that we achievebecause of the weight of the bullet.
(01:51):
And quite frankly, I knew very littleabout ammunition when I got here.
I was like everybody else.
Well, gosh, why don't Icarry a heavier bullet?
That's, that's going to be more effective.
And the reality is that's just not true.
Energy transfer is based on thevelocity of the bullet and kinetic
energy is half the mass or weight ofthe bullet times the squared velocity.
(02:17):
So if you can get your velocitysquared, that's a lot more
important than half of 115 or 124.
Very little difference inthose bullets, quite frankly.
Some people it's feel good forthem, but yeah, really, really
very little difference when you.
When you break it all down.
So but ours are designed to not onlybe faster, but behave differently
(02:39):
when they get inside the threat.
So that's where we have fun.
And you, you guys have actuallybeen designing some new products and
you're, you're actually able now.
I think last time we spoke, it wasa lot of things you were working
on, but this time, I think, don'tyou, aren't you headed towards the
law enforcement military contracts,and those are two different areas.
(03:00):
I kind of combined them, butI know they're different.
Yeah.
And for us, they're a bit of thesame because the new round that
we developed is so effective.
We elected that we just won'tsell it to the consumer.
We forced ourselves, I know, we forcedourselves to watch some video by some
(03:21):
body armor companies of the policethanking them for saving their lives.
And the last thing we want to dois provide that kind of lethality.
Yeah, consumer.
So the new one, we've gota patent pending on it now.
So that's that's the placethat we can talk about it.
But will, it will, it will penetrateand create more kinetic energy.
(03:43):
and permanent wound channel thanany other nine round ever developed.
Wow.
That's going to be quite a product.
And when you're when you're ableto sell things like this to the
military, that is pretty exclusive.
I mean, that's pretty specialbecause our, The people who protect
us need better tools all the time.
(04:05):
So it's really quite somethingyou've been able to create this
and then have the patent pending.
That's a lot of work ina short amount of time.
Well, you know, it is.
And frankly, sometimes it's just a freshset of eyes that says, well, heck, if this
is the issue, why don't we do X, Y, or Z?
And we designed it and tested it.
(04:26):
And we were shocked and we've alreadybeen in front of two branches of military
and hope to get in front ofsome others, you know, and quite
frankly, the, the warfighters don'talways know ballistics either.
They know, they know what'sissued to them by big military.
But when you, you know, say,well, go ahead and shoot yours.
And, you know, they get all excitedand you say, okay, now shoot ours.
(04:49):
And wow.
The the grammar got, got quite colorful.
I couldn't believe it.
That's great.
Yeah.
They couldn't believe it.
So we were, we were veryhappy and it's an honor and a
privilege to support those folks.
So we're, we're excited about it.
We've just kicked off production andwe'll be sending more rounds for T
and E to the, to the, not only thosebranches, but hopefully a few more.
(05:12):
That's great.
And I know we have quite a significantdefense following and military following.
So those people, theycan get ahold of you.
If they're interested in learning aboutthis ammunition product, they can find
you on LinkedIn and certainly they canreach out to me and I'll be happy to
introduce you to them, but they canreach you at libertyammo.com yeah.
(05:35):
And very simply garyramey@libertyammo.Comor just info@libertyammo.com and,
and we, we respond to all thoseemails and going to laugh at this.
We initially sent some ammunitionoff to some retired veterans that
are still engaged with the military.
And they called me up and they said,wow, this amm was unbelievable.
(05:57):
I said, it's amazing how lethal it is.
And they said, no, theweight it's unbelievable.
And you know, and I said,yeah, but the lethality, they
said, yeah, no, the weight.
Yeah, so you know when you can achievehigher lethality at 40, 50% weight savings
it doesn't seem like much to a consumerbecause might have a single or something.
(06:19):
You're carrying several magazines andyou have a bullet designed or developed
for you for any environment from, youknow was it 20 below zero to 140 above.
At any humidity level, you know, we,we tweak them for specific missions.
It makes a significant differenceand the SWAT guys for law enforcement
(06:40):
love it too, because they're carrying,they're carrying a lot of weight.
Yeah, it's a much differenttask that they have.
They do a lot of running and chasingand getting into position and they've
got to move quickly, you know, withina typically an urban environment.
They've thanked us for lowering theirweight, you know, because they jump a
lot of fences and chase a lot of people.
(07:01):
No, unfortunately they do.
I'm too bad.
They have to, I do think theweight is a huge issue for me.
It is as a concealed carry.
And then when I'm traveling,you know, weight is a big deal.
I don't know.
You know, most people, if theyhaven't flown before, they don't
realize that you hit 50 poundsin your suitcase pretty quickly.
And if you're carrying witha firearm, like I do in many
(07:24):
States, that's that ammunition is.
The weight savings is a hugebenefit to me, the consumer.
It is, because you get tocarry on the airline, you can
check up to 11 pounds of ammo.
And we can supply a whole lot moreammo at 11 pounds than anybody else.
Well, I don't know if I'm carrying 11pounds of ammo, but I was going to ask
(07:46):
you if you are, where are you traveling?
No, it's the when you're travelingthough, and you have to have your,
your pistol locked in a case, right?
The case weighs something, right?
And I've been researching that and I havesome options for a lighter weight case,
but the case I have is a little bit heavy.
And then you can only have so many magsand you can, you know, obviously it
(08:06):
has, they have to be unloaded, but allof that still has to fit in your case.
And so for me, it's a big dealnot to mention, just think about
carrying it in your purse oron your person, which is safer.
It still is weight.
So yeah, I think it's an amazing product.
When I first saw this, cause youshowed it to me, I think, you know,
(08:27):
the, the fall prior to when we did thepodcast, I just couldn't believe it.
I just couldn't believe it.
And it's, it's just reallymakes a big difference when
you're at conceal carrying.
And certainly I can't even imagine thebenefit it would be if you're military
or law enforcement or government, youknow, secret service or anyone else.
(08:47):
They're all carrying, likeyou said, so much weight.
Yeah, it really is amazing.
And you know, it's, it's interesting tome because we've been around since 2005.
So we're not a Johnny comelately kind of a company.
And we really began as a developmenthouse for the government.
Is that right?
Yeah, that's how we started.
And we had we've had over 25,we have 25 patents issued to us.
(09:10):
We're maintaining a good portion of those.
So we have environmental chambers.
We've got all the technology andequipment to develop what's needed.
And you know, again, we were talkingabout feet per second before.
Our bullets are traveling 1, 700up to 2, 040 feet per second.
Almost, almost twice the speed of sound.
(09:33):
And they're a lot lighter.
So you know, it's, it's faster tothe target hits harder, lighter
to carry in where most hollowpoints open up in front, ours are.
Well, I won't tell you howwe do it, but I will say this
pressure builds up at the bottom.
Ours ruptures at the bottom,so it creates a permanent wound
(09:54):
channel very early in the entry.
And then the base will traveldepending on which model you're, you
buy anywhere from 12 to 16, 17 inchesfor the, for the all important FBI
protocol, where they like penetration.
And we don't see the eye to eye on themor with them rather on on, on bullet
(10:16):
design, but you know, we've been upto visit with them and got some good
input and argued for about four hours.
And we did win them all.
Each branch and each division, you know,and they all have their own unique needs
and their own minimum requirements.
And I think it really says somethingthat you guys have been able to come
up with things that meet a lot of theseneeds and you're continuing to innovate.
(10:40):
You know, it's not a company that says,here's our, this is what we're doing.
This is it.
It's continual innovation.
Really all we think about is what,what makes a better bullet every day.
And we're very nimble.
We can have something designed.
Drawn manufactured in small quantity andtested within two weeks, three weeks.
(11:00):
Wow.
No kidding.
Yeah.
And sometimes, you know, it's youlearn things from trial and error,
you know, just the airflow overthe bullet makes a difference.
You know, where is thatthe midpoint of the weight?
There's a lot of thingsthat go into with it.
Frankly, I never knew you know, andthe nice thing about this category,
you learn something new every day.
(11:22):
You really do.
Who says ammunition doesn't change?
It changes a lot.
I thought it was going to be easy.
You know, coming from the gunrover, there's 50 components.
Yeah.
About four components.
How tough can four components be?
Yeah.
Oh my goodness.
You know, even, even primer type changesthe burn rate of your, of your powder.
(11:42):
So it's always different.
It's always changing.
We, we literally, as part of our QCprocess, we shoot the powder and the
primer we're going to use every morning.
and tweak it so that every bulletis just right when we make it.
And then every bullet is, ishand reviewed before we pack it.
(12:02):
I mean, it's literally somebodypicks it up, fondles it in their
fingers, make sure it's perfect.
We make sure the primer's flat.
There's no rockers.
We make sure the length is right.
The overall weight is right.
And only then does it get packed.
When you're carrying libertyammunition, it's right.
It's not a we don'thave the failure rates.
(12:23):
Other people do.
And it's made right here in America.
Yeah.
We're right down in Bradenton, Florida.
There are many worse places to beright outside of Sarasota, Florida.
So.
We've got a good crew.
We've got a great teamand a great product.
You know, frankly, our biggeststruggle has been getting the word out.
(12:45):
So I very much appreciate this podcast.
We've been, we focused on big militaryto the exclusion of other things.
And then during the COVID time period,consumer business took off and you know,
so we, we, we got back to the drawingboard of some new innovations and we're
bringing them out and, and you know,we just simply have a better product.
(13:07):
So.
If anyone would like some samples,we'd love to T and E with you now.
I, you and I talked about this priorto getting on here and I know I'm
going to get to see you at NASGW,which is a industry trade show.
And that's in Kansas city.
And so that's a distributor show.
It's not open to the public, butthere are a lot of distributors.
(13:28):
And actually it's surprisingly, I wasgoing over the list of exhibitors.
Surprisingly, a lot of companiesthat I didn't know existed.
So I do think we have a lotof new companies and a lot of
new people in our industry.
And some of those new companies, no doubtare looking for ammunition partners.
Yeah, I'm sure they are.
(13:48):
Yeah.
And there's, you know, there's over2000 ammunition FFLs in America.
No kidding.
I didn't know.
Yeah.
It's a very crowded market.
But not everybody has theengineering and the design and the
manufacturing capability that we have.
So you know, we, we'll letthem nibble at the market share
of all those other big guys.
And you know, we're going to stayin the leadership position in
(14:11):
terms of design and effectiveness.
No, it's a great product.
And I guess my only complaint is Ineed to buy more and I just talked
to Dwayne about it the other day.
I said, we need to add to some of ourstock and I don't have enough of that.
I would like to have more.
So it'll be another thing thatI have on my list here soon.
(14:33):
Cause I, I do believe in it.
It's a great product.
And there's lots of goodammunition, like you said, but it's.
It is really unique.
It's really special.
It is.
And, and, and people are shocked.
In fact I was at a certain militarybase in the mid Atlantic area this
past month with the head instructorand some special forces instructors.
(14:55):
And I said, I'm going to saysome things today that you guys
just are not going to agree with.
And that's why I'm notgoing to shoot any ammo.
You're going to shoot it all.
And they were, They were shocked.
I mean, even right downto the frangible ammo.
You know, I the guy was shooting some,some steel plates from about 25 feet away.
(15:15):
I said, well, why don't you move closer?
He said, well, I'm worried about ricochet.
I said, it's frangible ammo.
Go ahead.
So he got about 10 yards away.
So finally I said, hold on one minute.
And I walked up next to the steelplate and I said, okay, fire now.
He said, sir, I can't do that.
And I said, I understand youcan't, but I'm okay with it.
Go ahead.
He said, sir.
(15:36):
Please step back.
And I refused.
I said, no, no, you come up here.
So he walked up and I said, put that, putthat pistol about, you know, three, four
inches from that steel plate and fire.
And you know, he did the usual.
I'd have been scared to death.
Yeah.
And I stood there right by the plateand he fired and he was shocked.
(15:58):
And then once they realized,you know, that our projectiles
are compressed copper dust.
with a tin binder and youcan train on steel plate.
You can move, you can advance, you can getup, you know, point blank range and fire.
And the reduced ricochet properties ofour projectiles they just, they perform
(16:20):
and it's just to guide those products.
We, we try to cover the training aspectall the way up to the high lethality
across all the pistol calibers, aswell as two to three and 300 black.
We actually, we've got a new two to three.
that we're working on.
It was at the request of a specialforces group that we're also starting
(16:42):
to seed out there a little bit too.
And we're, we're pretty darn excitedbecause there's some great ammo in 223.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And there's one that really sticksout above all the rest for accuracy.
So we set that as our bar.
Good.
We are right there with them.
We are right there with them.
Is that 223?
(17:04):
Is it also lightweight?
No, no, it'll be 77 grain.
Okay, I'm gonna have to look into that.
Yeah, most of them are alittle bit lighter and that
one we will sell commercially.
Oh, yeah.
Oh, okay.
Yeah, I was thinking, of course,there's some I can't buy.
Right, and then there's a andwe've got another caliber that I
can't mention that we've developedfor Special Forces and we're very
(17:27):
excited about that one too, because.
We all perform the competition.
Wow.
That's really exciting, Gary.
Yeah.
Thank you.
We've got, we've got somany good things going on.
Yeah.
As you know, the category has been very,very tough the last two, three years.
It's been soft with a big COVID run up.
So, you know, we've all beenjust, you know, hanging on
(17:48):
and doing the best we can.
And we've done that and, you know, yeah.
While you're waiting, innovatingand servicing your customers.
Yeah.
Well, We've got a great team, bythe way, I've got to give credit.
We've got a great teamof folks at the office.
I don't know how many manufacturingfacilities have the folks who are
(18:10):
hourly show up 30 minutes earlyjust to talk, catch up and make
sure they're ready to have all theequipment running, you know, at top
speed at seven o'clock in the morning.
That's great.
Yeah.
It's just a great culture.
Great folks.
Great team.
When you guys look to hire peoplefor your plant floor people, how
do you, do you, what are the thingsthat they like about working there?
(18:34):
Well, I think, you know let meturn that around a little bit.
Let me say first, we alwayshire veterans whenever possible.
That is number one for us.
We will always support veterans orex L.E That's very important to us.
I think most of the time thefolks like the fact that we,
we have good work environment.
We pay a very good wage andagain, the culture, I mean,
(18:57):
everybody is everybody's great.
I've got to keep the army guys awayfrom the Marines every once in a
while, but you know, I've got to playreferee between those guys, but they're
always having fun with each other.
So we have you know, again, great team.
Great.
That's great.
And if someone, you know, if you'relistening to this podcast or watching
it on YouTube or a video, you can go toLiberty ammo and also send, if you want
(19:21):
to work there, want to know more aboutworking there, you could use the info box.
And always reach out to Gary, butI'm sure that you're always looking
for good people just in case.
And like you said, I'm just oneof the things that I've always
appreciated about you, Gary.
Even when you were running and founded andmanaged honor defense, it was all about,
(19:43):
all about American pride and all abouthiring veterans and supporting veterans.
It's a, it's a really big deal.
And I know that's true to your core.
It is.
Yeah, we believe in it.
Others pay lip service to it.
Yeah.
But you know, I think we'regrowing, we're heading in the right
direction and we love our veterans.
So, yeah.
And by the way, even if wedon't have a position, more
(20:05):
than happy to help you network.
Yeah, that's great.
No, you've been good about that too.
And I'm glad you mentioned that.
Well, I really appreciate youjoining me on this podcast, Gary.
Thank you.
It's just, well, I haveto get on liberty ammo.
com to make some orders, butgood stuff and good, good to see
you again because you've doneamazing things at Liberty ammo.
(20:28):
And I know, I know that they know that.
So it's just a wonderful turnaroundand a wonderful success story.
Well, thanks.
It's a great foundation,great team and great.
So I'm, I'm blessed, honored to be here.
All right.
And we'll wrap that up for this episodeof Headhunters NW podcast until next time.
(20:49):
Thank you, Shailene.
Okay, welcome to this episodeof Headhunters NW Podcast.
I am excited to have, I think, myfirst repeat guest ever, Gary Ramey.
And I looked and we did apodcast in January of 23.
So, I mean, we're due.
And a lot has changedat Liberty Ammunition.
(00:21):
And Gary is the CEO of Liberty Ammunition.
A lot.
You've done a lot of work andthere's been a lot of change there.
Well, there has.
It's been a lot of fun.
But first of all, thank youvery much for having me.
And I can't believe it's been thatlong since we've gotten together for
a podcast, but I always enjoy it.
And I do watch podcasts.
So it's a great way to stayconnected in the industry.
(00:44):
Well, we're glad to have you.
And I personally carry Libertyammunition in my concealed carry.
I just think it's the best stuff ever.
You know there's a lot of greatammunition companies out there and a
lot of great products, but frankly,it's a bit of a commodity product.
Most of the people are the same.
It's a one 15 grain, one 24 grain, one47 grain and traveling at, you know,
(01:10):
950 feet per second or 1100 or 1200.
And they all.
Perform about the same in termsof energy transfer, which is the
one thing that everybody forgetsreally a bullet transfers energy.
So then it comes down to bullet behavior.
What happens when thebullet strikes the target?
And that's where you know, whenyou make the comparison, the
(01:31):
ball ammo is just ball ammo.
It just typically will go rightthrough and hollow points designed
to open up in front and create aslightly bigger wound channel, but
it's still a temporary wound channel.
And you know, that's where our productsmake the difference not only the way we're
designed, but the speeds that we achievebecause of the weight of the bullet.
(01:51):
And quite frankly, I knew very littleabout ammunition when I got here.
I was like everybody else.
Well, gosh, why don't Icarry a heavier bullet?
That's, that's going to be more effective.
And the reality is that's just not true.
Energy transfer is based on thevelocity of the bullet and kinetic
energy is half the mass or weight ofthe bullet times the squared velocity.
(02:17):
So if you can get your velocitysquared, that's a lot more
important than half of 115 or 124.
Very little difference inthose bullets, quite frankly.
Some people it's feel good forthem, but yeah, really, really
very little difference when you.
When you break it all down.
So but ours are designed to not onlybe faster, but behave differently
(02:39):
when they get inside the threat.
So that's where we have fun.
And you, you guys have actuallybeen designing some new products and
you're, you're actually able now.
I think last time we spoke, it wasa lot of things you were working
on, but this time, I think, don'tyou, aren't you headed towards the
law enforcement military contracts,and those are two different areas.
(03:00):
I kind of combined them, butI know they're different.
Yeah.
And for us, they're a bit of thesame because the new round that
we developed is so effective.
We elected that we just won'tsell it to the consumer.
We forced ourselves, I know, we forcedourselves to watch some video by some
(03:21):
body armor companies of the policethanking them for saving their lives.
And the last thing we want to dois provide that kind of lethality.
Yeah, consumer.
So the new one, we've gota patent pending on it now.
So that's that's the placethat we can talk about it.
But will, it will, it will penetrateand create more kinetic energy.
(03:43):
and permanent wound channel thanany other nine round ever developed.
Wow.
That's going to be quite a product.
And when you're when you're ableto sell things like this to the
military, that is pretty exclusive.
I mean, that's pretty specialbecause our, The people who protect
us need better tools all the time.
(04:05):
So it's really quite somethingyou've been able to create this
and then have the patent pending.
That's a lot of work ina short amount of time.
Well, you know, it is.
And frankly, sometimes it's just a freshset of eyes that says, well, heck, if this
is the issue, why don't we do X, Y, or Z?
And we designed it and tested it.
(04:26):
And we were shocked and we've alreadybeen in front of two branches of military
and hope to get in front ofsome others, you know, and quite
frankly, the, the warfighters don'talways know ballistics either.
They know, they know what'sissued to them by big military.
But when you, you know, say,well, go ahead and shoot yours.
And, you know, they get all excitedand you say, okay, now shoot ours.
(04:49):
And wow.
The the grammar got, got quite colorful.
I couldn't believe it.
That's great.
Yeah.
They couldn't believe it.
So we were, we were veryhappy and it's an honor and a
privilege to support those folks.
So we're, we're excited about it.
We've just kicked off production andwe'll be sending more rounds for T
and E to the, to the, not only thosebranches, but hopefully a few more.
(05:12):
That's great.
And I know we have quite a significantdefense following and military following.
So those people, theycan get ahold of you.
If they're interested in learning aboutthis ammunition product, they can find
you on LinkedIn and certainly they canreach out to me and I'll be happy to
introduce you to them, but they canreach you at libertyammo.com yeah.
(05:35):
And very simply garyramey@libertyammo.Comor just info@libertyammo.com and,
and we, we respond to all thoseemails and going to laugh at this.
We initially sent some ammunitionoff to some retired veterans that
are still engaged with the military.
And they called me up and they said,wow, this amm was unbelievable.
(05:57):
I said, it's amazing how lethal it is.
And they said, no, theweight it's unbelievable.
And you know, and I said,yeah, but the lethality, they
said, yeah, no, the weight.
Yeah, so you know when you can achievehigher lethality at 40, 50% weight savings
it doesn't seem like much to a consumerbecause might have a single or something.
(06:19):
You're carrying several magazines andyou have a bullet designed or developed
for you for any environment from, youknow was it 20 below zero to 140 above.
At any humidity level, you know, we,we tweak them for specific missions.
It makes a significant differenceand the SWAT guys for law enforcement
(06:40):
love it too, because they're carrying,they're carrying a lot of weight.
Yeah, it's a much differenttask that they have.
They do a lot of running and chasingand getting into position and they've
got to move quickly, you know, withina typically an urban environment.
They've thanked us for lowering theirweight, you know, because they jump a
lot of fences and chase a lot of people.
(07:01):
No, unfortunately they do.
I'm too bad.
They have to, I do think theweight is a huge issue for me.
It is as a concealed carry.
And then when I'm traveling,you know, weight is a big deal.
I don't know.
You know, most people, if theyhaven't flown before, they don't
realize that you hit 50 poundsin your suitcase pretty quickly.
And if you're carrying witha firearm, like I do in many
(07:24):
States, that's that ammunition is.
The weight savings is a hugebenefit to me, the consumer.
It is, because you get tocarry on the airline, you can
check up to 11 pounds of ammo.
And we can supply a whole lot moreammo at 11 pounds than anybody else.
Well, I don't know if I'm carrying 11pounds of ammo, but I was going to ask
(07:46):
you if you are, where are you traveling?
No, it's the when you're travelingthough, and you have to have your,
your pistol locked in a case, right?
The case weighs something, right?
And I've been researching that and I havesome options for a lighter weight case,
but the case I have is a little bit heavy.
And then you can only have so many magsand you can, you know, obviously it
(08:06):
has, they have to be unloaded, but allof that still has to fit in your case.
And so for me, it's a big dealnot to mention, just think about
carrying it in your purse oron your person, which is safer.
It still is weight.
So yeah, I think it's an amazing product.
When I first saw this, cause youshowed it to me, I think, you know,
(08:27):
the, the fall prior to when we did thepodcast, I just couldn't believe it.
I just couldn't believe it.
And it's, it's just reallymakes a big difference when
you're at conceal carrying.
And certainly I can't even imagine thebenefit it would be if you're military
or law enforcement or government, youknow, secret service or anyone else.
(08:47):
They're all carrying, likeyou said, so much weight.
Yeah, it really is amazing.
And you know, it's, it's interesting tome because we've been around since 2005.
So we're not a Johnny comelately kind of a company.
And we really began as a developmenthouse for the government.
Is that right?
Yeah, that's how we started.
And we had we've had over 25,we have 25 patents issued to us.
(09:10):
We're maintaining a good portion of those.
So we have environmental chambers.
We've got all the technology andequipment to develop what's needed.
And you know, again, we were talkingabout feet per second before.
Our bullets are traveling 1, 700up to 2, 040 feet per second.
Almost, almost twice the speed of sound.
(09:33):
And they're a lot lighter.
So you know, it's, it's faster tothe target hits harder, lighter
to carry in where most hollowpoints open up in front, ours are.
Well, I won't tell you howwe do it, but I will say this
pressure builds up at the bottom.
Ours ruptures at the bottom,so it creates a permanent wound
(09:54):
channel very early in the entry.
And then the base will traveldepending on which model you're, you
buy anywhere from 12 to 16, 17 inchesfor the, for the all important FBI
protocol, where they like penetration.
And we don't see the eye to eye on themor with them rather on on, on bullet
(10:16):
design, but you know, we've been upto visit with them and got some good
input and argued for about four hours.
And we did win them all.
Each branch and each division, you know,and they all have their own unique needs
and their own minimum requirements.
And I think it really says somethingthat you guys have been able to come
up with things that meet a lot of theseneeds and you're continuing to innovate.
(10:40):
You know, it's not a company that says,here's our, this is what we're doing.
This is it.
It's continual innovation.
Really all we think about is what,what makes a better bullet every day.
And we're very nimble.
We can have something designed.
Drawn manufactured in small quantity andtested within two weeks, three weeks.
(11:00):
Wow.
No kidding.
Yeah.
And sometimes, you know, it's youlearn things from trial and error,
you know, just the airflow overthe bullet makes a difference.
You know, where is thatthe midpoint of the weight?
There's a lot of thingsthat go into with it.
Frankly, I never knew you know, andthe nice thing about this category,
you learn something new every day.
(11:22):
You really do.
Who says ammunition doesn't change?
It changes a lot.
I thought it was going to be easy.
You know, coming from the gunrover, there's 50 components.
Yeah.
About four components.
How tough can four components be?
Yeah.
Oh my goodness.
You know, even, even primer type changesthe burn rate of your, of your powder.
(11:42):
So it's always different.
It's always changing.
We, we literally, as part of our QCprocess, we shoot the powder and the
primer we're going to use every morning.
and tweak it so that every bulletis just right when we make it.
And then every bullet is, ishand reviewed before we pack it.
(12:02):
I mean, it's literally somebodypicks it up, fondles it in their
fingers, make sure it's perfect.
We make sure the primer's flat.
There's no rockers.
We make sure the length is right.
The overall weight is right.
And only then does it get packed.
When you're carrying libertyammunition, it's right.
It's not a we don'thave the failure rates.
(12:23):
Other people do.
And it's made right here in America.
Yeah.
We're right down in Bradenton, Florida.
There are many worse places to beright outside of Sarasota, Florida.
So.
We've got a good crew.
We've got a great teamand a great product.
You know, frankly, our biggeststruggle has been getting the word out.
(12:45):
So I very much appreciate this podcast.
We've been, we focused on big militaryto the exclusion of other things.
And then during the COVID time period,consumer business took off and you know,
so we, we, we got back to the drawingboard of some new innovations and we're
bringing them out and, and you know,we just simply have a better product.
(13:07):
So.
If anyone would like some samples,we'd love to T and E with you now.
I, you and I talked about this priorto getting on here and I know I'm
going to get to see you at NASGW,which is a industry trade show.
And that's in Kansas city.
And so that's a distributor show.
It's not open to the public, butthere are a lot of distributors.
(13:28):
And actually it's surprisingly, I wasgoing over the list of exhibitors.
Surprisingly, a lot of companiesthat I didn't know existed.
So I do think we have a lotof new companies and a lot of
new people in our industry.
And some of those new companies, no doubtare looking for ammunition partners.
Yeah, I'm sure they are.
(13:48):
Yeah.
And there's, you know, there's over2000 ammunition FFLs in America.
No kidding.
I didn't know.
Yeah.
It's a very crowded market.
But not everybody has theengineering and the design and the
manufacturing capability that we have.
So you know, we, we'll letthem nibble at the market share
of all those other big guys.
And you know, we're going to stayin the leadership position in
(14:11):
terms of design and effectiveness.
No, it's a great product.
And I guess my only complaint is Ineed to buy more and I just talked
to Dwayne about it the other day.
I said, we need to add to some of ourstock and I don't have enough of that.
I would like to have more.
So it'll be another thing thatI have on my list here soon.
(14:33):
Cause I, I do believe in it.
It's a great product.
And there's lots of goodammunition, like you said, but it's.
It is really unique.
It's really special.
It is.
And, and, and people are shocked.
In fact I was at a certain militarybase in the mid Atlantic area this
past month with the head instructorand some special forces instructors.
(14:55):
And I said, I'm going to saysome things today that you guys
just are not going to agree with.
And that's why I'm notgoing to shoot any ammo.
You're going to shoot it all.
And they were, They were shocked.
I mean, even right downto the frangible ammo.
You know, I the guy was shooting some,some steel plates from about 25 feet away.
(15:15):
I said, well, why don't you move closer?
He said, well, I'm worried about ricochet.
I said, it's frangible ammo.
Go ahead.
So he got about 10 yards away.
So finally I said, hold on one minute.
And I walked up next to the steelplate and I said, okay, fire now.
He said, sir, I can't do that.
And I said, I understand youcan't, but I'm okay with it.
Go ahead.
He said, sir.
(15:36):
Please step back.
And I refused.
I said, no, no, you come up here.
So he walked up and I said, put that, putthat pistol about, you know, three, four
inches from that steel plate and fire.
And you know, he did the usual.
I'd have been scared to death.
Yeah.
And I stood there right by the plateand he fired and he was shocked.
(15:58):
And then once they realized,you know, that our projectiles
are compressed copper dust.
with a tin binder and youcan train on steel plate.
You can move, you can advance, you can getup, you know, point blank range and fire.
And the reduced ricochet properties ofour projectiles they just, they perform
(16:20):
and it's just to guide those products.
We, we try to cover the training aspectall the way up to the high lethality
across all the pistol calibers, aswell as two to three and 300 black.
We actually, we've got a new two to three.
that we're working on.
It was at the request of a specialforces group that we're also starting
(16:42):
to seed out there a little bit too.
And we're, we're pretty darn excitedbecause there's some great ammo in 223.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And there's one that really sticksout above all the rest for accuracy.
So we set that as our bar.
Good.
We are right there with them.
We are right there with them.
Is that 223?
(17:04):
Is it also lightweight?
No, no, it'll be 77 grain.
Okay, I'm gonna have to look into that.
Yeah, most of them are alittle bit lighter and that
one we will sell commercially.
Oh, yeah.
Oh, okay.
Yeah, I was thinking, of course,there's some I can't buy.
Right, and then there's a andwe've got another caliber that I
can't mention that we've developedfor Special Forces and we're very
(17:27):
excited about that one too, because.
We all perform the competition.
Wow.
That's really exciting, Gary.
Yeah.
Thank you.
We've got, we've got somany good things going on.
Yeah.
As you know, the category has been very,very tough the last two, three years.
It's been soft with a big COVID run up.
So, you know, we've all beenjust, you know, hanging on
(17:48):
and doing the best we can.
And we've done that and, you know, yeah.
While you're waiting, innovatingand servicing your customers.
Yeah.
Well, We've got a great team, bythe way, I've got to give credit.
We've got a great teamof folks at the office.
I don't know how many manufacturingfacilities have the folks who are
(18:10):
hourly show up 30 minutes earlyjust to talk, catch up and make
sure they're ready to have all theequipment running, you know, at top
speed at seven o'clock in the morning.
That's great.
Yeah.
It's just a great culture.
Great folks.
Great team.
When you guys look to hire peoplefor your plant floor people, how
do you, do you, what are the thingsthat they like about working there?
(18:34):
Well, I think, you know let meturn that around a little bit.
Let me say first, we alwayshire veterans whenever possible.
That is number one for us.
We will always support veterans orex L.E That's very important to us.
I think most of the time thefolks like the fact that we,
we have good work environment.
We pay a very good wage andagain, the culture, I mean,
(18:57):
everybody is everybody's great.
I've got to keep the army guys awayfrom the Marines every once in a
while, but you know, I've got to playreferee between those guys, but they're
always having fun with each other.
So we have you know, again, great team.
Great.
That's great.
And if someone, you know, if you'relistening to this podcast or watching
it on YouTube or a video, you can go toLiberty ammo and also send, if you want
(19:21):
to work there, want to know more aboutworking there, you could use the info box.
And always reach out to Gary, butI'm sure that you're always looking
for good people just in case.
And like you said, I'm just oneof the things that I've always
appreciated about you, Gary.
Even when you were running and founded andmanaged honor defense, it was all about,
(19:43):
all about American pride and all abouthiring veterans and supporting veterans.
It's a, it's a really big deal.
And I know that's true to your core.
It is.
Yeah, we believe in it.
Others pay lip service to it.
Yeah.
But you know, I think we'regrowing, we're heading in the right
direction and we love our veterans.
So, yeah.
And by the way, even if wedon't have a position, more
(20:05):
than happy to help you network.
Yeah, that's great.
No, you've been good about that too.
And I'm glad you mentioned that.
Well, I really appreciate youjoining me on this podcast, Gary.
Thank you.
It's just, well, I haveto get on liberty ammo.
com to make some orders, butgood stuff and good, good to see
you again because you've doneamazing things at Liberty ammo.
(20:28):
And I know, I know that they know that.
So it's just a wonderful turnaroundand a wonderful success story.
Well, thanks.
It's a great foundation,great team and great.
So I'm, I'm blessed, honored to be here.
All right.
And we'll wrap that up for this episodeof Headhunters NW podcast until next time.
(20:49):
Thank you, Shailene.
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