November 26, 2024 • 28 mins
Welcome to HeadHuntersNW Podcast! I'm Shaylene Keiner, an executive recruiter with a passion for the global defense, small arms and shooting sectors. Join me as I sit down with top executives and industry leaders to dive deep into the world of global manufacturing, service companies, non-profits and more. Together, we explore the latest trends, innovations, and the inspiring stories behind the people who drive this dynamic industry forward. Whether you're a seasoned pro or just curious about what makes this world tick, you're in for engaging conversations that go beyond the surface. Let's uncover the fascinating stories and insights that shape the global defense, small arms and shooting sectors. Subscribe now and become a part of our community!
Join Shaylene as she talks with Ela Tingelstad, a remarkable individual with a rich background in product management and marketing within the firearms industry. Ela shares her journey from Krakow, Poland to becoming a U.S. citizen and passionately contributing to the firearms community. Gain insights into her professional growth, her dedication to the Second Amendment, and how she has navigated various roles, including her experience at FN America. Discover how her diverse skills and experiences have made her a valuable asset in the industry. Don't miss this inspiring conversation filled with unique perspectives and professional wisdom!
Contact Shaylene@headhuntersnw.com if you’d like to connect with Ela.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Hello everyone.
Thank you for signing in foranother podcast with HeadHunters NW.
I have been really rethinking my podcastand I have in the past had special guests
on that I know are uniquely qualified inour industry that may be in between jobs,
but I had the real true pleasure of beingconnected with Ela, And I asked Ela if she
(00:29):
would be on my podcast, and this is notgoing to be a podcast you want to miss.
This is probably one of the few podcastsI thought maybe we should make it an hour
because Ela is single handedly one of themost interesting people I've ever met.
Ela, as it's pronounced,Tingelstad, is that right?
Yes, that's correct.
(00:52):
Welcome Ela.
I I want to take a few minutesand tell people about you, Ela.
And then we're going to, I'm going tohope you're going to sit and talk to us
because again, what, so Ela to me is the,the poster child for she's our buyer.
She's the person that youshould want on your team.
(01:13):
She's a product manager anda marketing professional.
And Ela is the real deal.
So just to give our audience a backgroundreal quick, and there's so much about
Ela that is just, I have a resume herebecause I didn't want to miss anything.
Ela you're from Krakow, Poland.
Is that right?
(01:34):
Okay.
And she has a degree inbusiness administration.
And she also has lots ofother education, photography.
She's an NRA instructor.
She has done a ton ofwork with gun owners.
She's an NRA instructor.
(01:55):
She's lots of things and we'll cover that.
But I want people to know that Ela hascome here to the United States, become
a United States citizen, the way thatis required by our government, and she
has worked her way up Industry becauseshe learned about her second amendment
(02:17):
gun rights, and I'm probably not goingto be able to cover as much as if you've
never met Ela, you, you need to gether contact information and you need
to connect with an hour on LinkedIn.
We're going to have the.
link connected to this podcast.
And if you need to reach Ela, causeyou're smart enough to know you want
to hire her, then you can reach out tome and I'll put you in touch with her.
(02:40):
But Ela is most recentlya product manager.
That was part of a big groupof people that were ended
up laid off from FN America.
Who's a great employer,great manufacturer.
And Ela, I.
I guess I, I don't evenknow where to start.
So could you maybe walk our audiencethrough why you decided after becoming
(03:05):
a U S citizen, that process, whatmade you decide to take this path?
Cause I thought that was a greatway to start when you and I talked.
So Shaylene, first of all, thankyou for having me on your podcast
and thank you for that opportunityto all be a part of that program.
So, As you mentioned I grew up in acountry that was under the communist
(03:30):
regime in a former Soviet bloc so Iknow quite well what it is to live in a
government owned and government regulatedeconomy with the censorship and with
You know, ever present bureaucracy.
I got to really grasp the meaning ofthe second amendment when I was studying
(03:51):
the civics to become a U S citizen youknow, from my life in the regime, we had
very mixed or rather negative emotionsabout the firearms because that wasn't
something for ordinary folks thesewere the tools of the regime enforcers.
So, of course, The connotationwas very, very negative.
(04:15):
But through my research andmy study of the civics and U.
S.
Constitution, it's, it's just dawnedon me how important Second Amendment is
in our system of checks and balances.
You know, it's such a cliche quotebut an unarmed man is a subject,
armed man is a citizen and it allGot me to really appreciate how
(04:41):
everything goes back to we, the people.
Yes.
I mean, well, and your perspectiveis so much, I don't know.
I mean, having lived here andgrown up in the United States,
I've never experienced that.
My background isn't that, and I'm humbled,truly humbled to meet you and to be able
(05:05):
to get to know you, even in a small way.
Because I think that we, even though we'rereminded constantly about the importance
of this, it is Very good to be reminded bysomeone who has firsthand knowledge, the
difference between a subject and a citizenand talk a little bit about how you
(05:27):
decided to, because your, your background,you were doing project management and
you've done customer service and lotsof other things, but how did you decide
to go to work for a firearms company?
Company or a related product likethat company that was truly a
(05:49):
journey you know, coming to us.
I I learned what it meansto have a courage to dream.
And really, I learned to dream becauseyou know, under the communism You
really didn't feel like you have anyoptions or any say how your life is
going to be, that was all dependenton the generosity of the system and
(06:11):
the government, or you know, that wasdependent on your loyalty to the system
and here in us, it wasn't right away.
It was a process.
I learned to be a dreamer.
I learned to you know, decide.
This is, this is what evolved to bemy passion and that would be fantastic
(06:31):
to also turn it into career or inother words work in the industry
where, where my passion was obviouslyit wasn't passion from the start.
It was a journey and the evolution.
When I, when I first appreciatedthe meaning of the Second Amendment,
I also decided to, you know, gainsome practical skills and knowledge.
(06:57):
So I started to seek you know, at firstvery basic one-on-one shooting classes.
So Pistol one-on-one rifle one-on-one.
But I didn't stop just there.
I continued training defensive skillslong range shooting even trap shooting.
I got into hunting.
I had that I was, I was fortunate tolive at the time in a state of Minnesota,
(07:22):
which has really very nice public.
hunting lands and a lot of differentgame that that you can go after.
So I became a hunter as well.
So my interests and my involvementin a community was growing.
From students, I quicklybecame a volunteer and an
instructor in a local gun club.
You know, Starting from somethingbasic like supporting gun range
(07:46):
maintenance and facilities maintenancehelping with the firearm safety
and hunter education classes,helping as a range safety officer.
And then soon enough I actuallyestablished a defensive pistol and
carbine league at the gun range.
It was something, it was somethingI thought was lacking in the area.
(08:09):
A lot of people would meet toshoot trap or shoot competition.
That was more of the fast and fun.
Like thought like we were lackingplaces to practice more of the defensive
shooting where your course of fire is not.
choreographed, but it's more of theproblem that you have to figure out
(08:30):
how you can solve with the skills thatyou have at a time or the physical
ability that you have at a time.
So that was one thing.
I also got interested inhistorical collectible firearms.
I didn't know that.
That's cool.
Yeah, with actually with a fewfriends at the range who were
(08:53):
collectors as well we started ahistorical show and tell gatherings.
We would bring whatever we had in ourcollection, we would come up with a theme.
So let's say World War II gunsor German guns or Russian guns or
early American service firearms.
(09:13):
We would bring what we had.
We shared the stories.
We we would showcase the guns.
And normally we had some of that odd ammocalibers that you probably don't hear much
about or don't realize that they exist.
And You know, whoever was at therange got to fire an old crack
rifle . That is really neat.
(09:35):
Or, or an old Eddie Stone or youknow the whole family of maers
going from Spanish maer to youknow, the most popular K 90 eights.
You, you name it.
And.
Eventually, I also got to serve a term onthe board of directors at the gun club.
(09:56):
So I was involved in thecommunity quite a bit.
Also, I supported a secondamendment efforts in the state.
And whenever the local gun ownershad a lobby days at the state
capital, I eagerly traveled.
(10:17):
And here is where my naturalized citizenbackground came very handy because on
the blue side of the aisle, the lawmakerswere were quite more receptive to
talk to a new citizen and a woman andta da da da, surprise she's pro gun.
That's really special.
(10:38):
I mean, you've really contributedto, to our United States.
You've taken yourcitizenship quite seriously.
You know, it is very precious for me.
I have a very deep appreciationand the gratitude that I was given
that opportunity to pledge myallegiance to red, white, and blue.
(11:02):
And I don't take it for granted.
Thanks.
Yes, I see that.
Now, as you've gone through thisjourney, how did this journey
drive you to be this amazingproduct and marketing professional?
Because now you've, you've, I mean,to me, what you're describing, you're
really building a history of knowledge.
(11:26):
That would benefit in any productand marketing role, because how I'm
not sure how people could do thatrole without having the exposure
to all these firearms and all thedifferent parts of our industry.
There's lots of niches likehunting and, and shooting.
And, you know, there's alot of different niches.
(11:46):
How, how has that helped you?
So as far as getting to the pointwhere I had a career in firearms
industry, that's happened in parallel.
Obviously, like you pointed out beinginvolved in variety of shooting sports
(12:07):
and adjacent environments like outdoorsand hunting that gave me that foundation.
You know, to use the professionaljargon to understand the really, very
wide spectrum of customer personastheir pain points you know, their
motivation and really what was.
Prompting them to favorone brand over another.
(12:31):
So that helped me to connect with thecustomer needs and with the customer
demographics, how, how varied it was.
And in the parallel I wasbuilding my professional career.
'cause when I first movedto United States, I had to
start from the very bottom.
You know, my experience, myeducation was from far away.
(12:54):
So everybody looked maybe not everybody,you know, I don't want to sound like a
whiner, but it's hard to translate that.
It's hard for people toget that translation.
The same thing happens with,with our military veterans.
They come out and they have allthis experience, but it's, This,
the civilian market, sometimesthe commercial market is, has a
(13:15):
really hard time translating that.
You know, without that firstgood solid American workforce
experience, it was just harder.
for me to convince a potentialemployer that I was a good
person for the, for the job.
Even when I, even when I ventured outto get an advice from a local workforce
(13:38):
center you know, very well meaningpeople there told me just start from
the very bottom, from the very entrylevel jobs because your education and
experiences from far, far, far away.
But what can you expect?
These were people from the governmentand were there to help, right?
(13:59):
Right.
Excellent point.
Yes.
But here you are, and you, youhave, you know, you're not a
person who, Needs to be humbled.
You're willing to get in thereand work hard and prove yourself.
I mean, I, I see your resume andI'm in awe because you've shown that
progression and the steps from whenyou became a citizen and came to the
(14:23):
United States, not in that order, cameto the United States, became a citizen.
The steps in your experience inyour resume, we're not half a
step here, half a step there.
They're five steps.
Five big steps and you've earnedyour way from what, you know,
and I see thousands of resumesand talk to thousands of people.
(14:43):
And I, I wanted to do this becauseit's just so it's so unique and it's
not that other people don't workhard, but you've, You've driven your
passion and your career like this.
And it's now, you know, all into one.
And I just think as a product manager,you probably have a really great
perspective on what, what will workand what will not, what will sell and
(15:08):
what will not, you know, one of thethings we just barely touched on when
we were off camera was a point youmade that I thought was brilliant.
I live in Cody, Wyoming.
And the demographicaround me looks like me.
They're like me.
They, you know, it's different.
The demographic in Minneapolis andMinnesota is much more diverse and a lot
(15:32):
of different types of cultures and people.
And I think as a product manager, that is.
Gold, you know, that's reallyimportant experience to have.
So I feel a little bit like going backto the question you asked a moment ago
which was how, how did my you know, how,how did I end up in the, in the firearms?
(15:57):
I started telling you thatit happened in parallel.
My professional careerbreakthrough At first happened
not in the firearms industry.
It actually happened in ahardware in kitchen component.
That's correct.
Area where I worked for a localfamily owned hardware distributor.
(16:18):
But You know, again, that was my Americandream from more of an entry level as a
purchasing assistant I got promoted to aproduct manager which was actually very
comprehensive role cause it encompassedeverything from forecasting and purchasing
through marketing, developing e commercechannels and marketplaces advertising
(16:42):
cops customer loyalty programs.
And in that setting, I happened to beespecially successful in scaling up e
commerce and bringing what you couldcall transformative growth in some areas.
marketplaces such as Amazon.
Once I had these accomplishmentsbehind my belt, that's opened the
(17:07):
door for me to join Revo Brands group.
I primarily work for Real Avid.
So really very great brand in the industryspecializing in gun cleaning and gun
maintenance and gun smithing tools.
So for me, that was heaven.
Yeah, that's really special.
(17:29):
Great brand, lots of exposure for you,and I'm sure you helped them tremendously.
Yes, I, I had a reallygreat time working there.
I joined the team in a capacityof the marketing business analyst.
But I, dedicated a lot of time and effort,uh, bringing growth to Amazon channel,
(17:50):
creating content basically directingthe creation of the marketing content
and search engine optimized contentfor e commerce and Pretty much doing,
doing the same thing again, bringingthat multiplying growth to Amazon
sales and other marketplaces as well.
(18:11):
That's fantastic.
Tell us about your rolewhen you were at FN.
Tell me the kind of, tell us aboutthe type of things you did and how
your experience, you know, with, with,Being exposed to the firearms industry
privately and all the things youlearned How did that affect your job
at fn and tell us a little bit aboutwhat does a product manager do at fn?
(18:36):
Tell us what that is.
A lot of people might not know what thatjob is yes, that's that's a good question.
Even my husband sometimesasks me what do you really do?
What is the job all day?
What is this job all about?
As you mentioned at FN America, Iwas back in the product manager role.
(18:59):
However, this time it was quitedifferent than for for the
hardware distribution company.
My focus was on pistol and also ontrade blazing special makes and custom
limited editions programs in the company.
That had to happen step by step orrather in a crawl walk run manner
(19:23):
because I need to develop a lot ofinternal processes suppliers, processes
with suppliers and Basically craft somesort of the foundation and the vision
and you know, basically basically setup the foundation why we want to make
special special makes and customs andwhat we want to achieve by having those
(19:47):
limited additions because it's not justabout Oh, well, let's paint a gun a
different color and see how it sells.
You know, I wanted to make sure thatit's aligned and that it supports company
vision, the brand promise, and that itbasically helps convey the Story and the
(20:08):
value and identity of the, of the brand.
So that's that was my focusof, of the work there.
And how, how do you think that yourexperience over the last couple of years?
How has that helped you becomea very, How does it help you
(20:28):
contribute to be a valuableproduct and marketing professional?
What are the things that you'veexperienced that you think have
been helpful and added to that job?
Well, so first of all, I don'tthink you can truly do this job
without the passion for the product.
(20:51):
It's you need to have interestTo you know be hands on with
the technical aspects of it.
You need to have that heart and thecapacity to be involved with the customers
to have the empathy with the customersand their problems and not be dismissive
You know, we talked about it a littlebit off the camera how the industry is
(21:16):
changing, how it's learning to addressdifferent needs of the shooters.
So we have different demographics,different experiences.
We have exponentially growing segment ofwomen shooters new shooters You know, or
even if we think about those gun ownerswho have had guns for generations our
(21:39):
society is becoming older and older.
We're aging.
So maybe we have a good history.
And maybe 20 years ago, theshooter was, capable of handling
45 or 50 cal or, you know, magnumcalibers without any problems.
But 20 years later with thearthritis maybe even a nine
(22:00):
millimeter is becoming challenging.
So Making, making a slide likebutter is a big deal in my world.
My hand strength isn't as strongas my husband's, for example.
And you know, when my daughterwent to go purchase a concealed
carry she was going to purchase.
(22:23):
X brand.
And I said, well, I don't thinkthat's going to work because you,
the slide is very hard to pull.
And if you can't do that, there'sno good to you or anybody else.
And it's just dangerous.
So let's go test them.
So we went to luckily a greatdealer and we're able to try
different firearms and it is, it'sa different need than it used to be.
(22:46):
You know, we're a different buyerand she ended up buying a gun that,
you know, was comfortable for her.
But as we get older andour population ages, we're.
Our choices are different.
And I would think a product manageris a very important part of deciding
what the company is going to buildand what they're going to sell.
(23:07):
And I would think that your diverseexposure to these different cultures and
different people, as you described to mein some of the women's groups and some of
the other groups that you've been in, Ithink is very valuable and women are not
the only buyers, but they certainly are.
I think we're making a lot ofheadway and being thinking about
(23:31):
products that women want to buy.
And they certainly in myworld do not need to be pink.
They need to be firearms that work,but at least our manufacturers, right?
You gave me an example.
Our marketing is getting better, right?
Our.
Don't you see some of the productsbeing marketed in a better way?
(23:55):
Marketed.
And I would also say you know, developedwith that different mindset we were
talking about it earlier, just you and me,a few years ago, you had that dogma in the
self defense training that, you know, Ninemillimeter is the one and only caliber.
(24:16):
And you know, if you can't managethe recoil, if you can't manage
the gun, too bad, go to the gym.
That was, that was the solution to theyou know, recoil management problem.
A few years down the road we hadmanufacturers that had Courage to come up
with that to, you know, really tune in tothose pain points of the weaker shooters.
(24:40):
You know, we had a very very successfulproduct on the market, easy shield.
You can criticize the gun.
You don't have to like the gun,but you definitely need to have
appreciation for how the requirementsdeveloped and how right on point
a lot of features in this gun was.
(25:00):
Easy to rack, easy to shoot.
So, you know, a caliber that is moremanageable for weaker shooters, for maybe
elderly shooters you know, all the littlegizmos that allow it to load it easier.
You know, that's, that'sthe answer to the problem.
That's not dismissing the problem.
(25:21):
And also, you know, from my experiencewith the inner workings of a lot of
big companies it takes a lot of courageand a lot of guts to Push and pursue
and launch this type of product.
Well, it's a big investment.
And what if it doesn't work out, youknow, and I do think you're right.
(25:42):
We are, we really havemade massive headway.
And I think people, me included,tend to focus unfairly so
that we're not making headway.
And if you really look back, wereally are making massive headway
in technology and improvements.
You take ammunition, forexample, yesterday I ordered.
(26:05):
Some 45 ammunition from Liberty ammunitionbecause I carry a 45 when I'm out and that
makes not only is it great ammunition, butit, it's, it's a fraction of the weight of
the other ammunition that I used to carry.
So my 45, it mightweigh more than my nine.
(26:28):
But when I put, you know, Libertyammunition in it, it weighs even less.
And, you know, can I carry a heavier gun?
Sure.
But am I really going to do that if I'mjust going to take a walk with my dogs?
I just think all of this combined,we really are making great headway.
But it takes, in my opinion, People likeyou to be able to say we could do this.
(26:55):
You know, it takes really brilliantproduct marketing people to be able to
say, Hey, have we thought about this?
Here's a demographic thatwould really respond.
Well, if we designed a pistol likethis, you know, and I think it's really
brave companies that are innovative,innovative that drive our industry.
(27:16):
And I'm, I'm ever so gratefulthat we were connected.
And I, I just think that youare the future of our industry.
I would love to say it's me,but I can't design anything.
I could be a buyer though.
So thank you Ela forbeing on this podcast.
And I want to remind our listeners thatyou know, I would connect with Ela if
(27:40):
you could, under any circumstances,because she's a fine example of
what the future of our industry is.
And I look forward to many years.
of being connected and seeing theproducts that you share with our
industry and the products that you'reable to market and the future is bright.
(28:01):
So thank you.
Thank you, Ela, for being on the podcast.
Well, thank you again,Shaylene, for having me.
That was my honor, my pleasure as well.
All right.
Well, this is a, another episodeof HeadHunters NW podcast.
And thank you so much for listeningand being a part of our world.
(28:21):
And I look forward to the next podcast.
Hello everyone.
Thank you for signing in foranother podcast with HeadHunters NW.
I have been really rethinking my podcastand I have in the past had special guests
on that I know are uniquely qualified inour industry that may be in between jobs,
but I had the real true pleasure of beingconnected with Ela, And I asked Ela if she
(00:29):
would be on my podcast, and this is notgoing to be a podcast you want to miss.
This is probably one of the few podcastsI thought maybe we should make it an hour
because Ela is single handedly one of themost interesting people I've ever met.
Ela, as it's pronounced,Tingelstad, is that right?
Yes, that's correct.
(00:52):
Welcome Ela.
I I want to take a few minutesand tell people about you, Ela.
And then we're going to, I'm going tohope you're going to sit and talk to us
because again, what, so Ela to me is the,the poster child for she's our buyer.
She's the person that youshould want on your team.
(01:13):
She's a product manager anda marketing professional.
And Ela is the real deal.
So just to give our audience a backgroundreal quick, and there's so much about
Ela that is just, I have a resume herebecause I didn't want to miss anything.
Ela you're from Krakow, Poland.
Is that right?
(01:34):
Okay.
And she has a degree inbusiness administration.
And she also has lots ofother education, photography.
She's an NRA instructor.
She has done a ton ofwork with gun owners.
She's an NRA instructor.
(01:55):
She's lots of things and we'll cover that.
But I want people to know that Ela hascome here to the United States, become
a United States citizen, the way thatis required by our government, and she
has worked her way up Industry becauseshe learned about her second amendment
(02:17):
gun rights, and I'm probably not goingto be able to cover as much as if you've
never met Ela, you, you need to gether contact information and you need
to connect with an hour on LinkedIn.
We're going to have the.
link connected to this podcast.
And if you need to reach Ela, causeyou're smart enough to know you want
to hire her, then you can reach out tome and I'll put you in touch with her.
(02:40):
But Ela is most recentlya product manager.
That was part of a big groupof people that were ended
up laid off from FN America.
Who's a great employer,great manufacturer.
And Ela, I.
I guess I, I don't evenknow where to start.
So could you maybe walk our audiencethrough why you decided after becoming
(03:05):
a U S citizen, that process, whatmade you decide to take this path?
Cause I thought that was a greatway to start when you and I talked.
So Shaylene, first of all, thankyou for having me on your podcast
and thank you for that opportunityto all be a part of that program.
So, As you mentioned I grew up in acountry that was under the communist
(03:30):
regime in a former Soviet bloc so Iknow quite well what it is to live in a
government owned and government regulatedeconomy with the censorship and with
You know, ever present bureaucracy.
I got to really grasp the meaning ofthe second amendment when I was studying
(03:51):
the civics to become a U S citizen youknow, from my life in the regime, we had
very mixed or rather negative emotionsabout the firearms because that wasn't
something for ordinary folks thesewere the tools of the regime enforcers.
So, of course, The connotationwas very, very negative.
(04:15):
But through my research andmy study of the civics and U.
S.
Constitution, it's, it's just dawnedon me how important Second Amendment is
in our system of checks and balances.
You know, it's such a cliche quotebut an unarmed man is a subject,
armed man is a citizen and it allGot me to really appreciate how
(04:41):
everything goes back to we, the people.
Yes.
I mean, well, and your perspectiveis so much, I don't know.
I mean, having lived here andgrown up in the United States,
I've never experienced that.
My background isn't that, and I'm humbled,truly humbled to meet you and to be able
(05:05):
to get to know you, even in a small way.
Because I think that we, even though we'rereminded constantly about the importance
of this, it is Very good to be reminded bysomeone who has firsthand knowledge, the
difference between a subject and a citizenand talk a little bit about how you
(05:27):
decided to, because your, your background,you were doing project management and
you've done customer service and lotsof other things, but how did you decide
to go to work for a firearms company?
Company or a related product likethat company that was truly a
(05:49):
journey you know, coming to us.
I I learned what it meansto have a courage to dream.
And really, I learned to dream becauseyou know, under the communism You
really didn't feel like you have anyoptions or any say how your life is
going to be, that was all dependenton the generosity of the system and
(06:11):
the government, or you know, that wasdependent on your loyalty to the system
and here in us, it wasn't right away.
It was a process.
I learned to be a dreamer.
I learned to you know, decide.
This is, this is what evolved to bemy passion and that would be fantastic
(06:31):
to also turn it into career or inother words work in the industry
where, where my passion was obviouslyit wasn't passion from the start.
It was a journey and the evolution.
When I, when I first appreciatedthe meaning of the Second Amendment,
I also decided to, you know, gainsome practical skills and knowledge.
(06:57):
So I started to seek you know, at firstvery basic one-on-one shooting classes.
So Pistol one-on-one rifle one-on-one.
But I didn't stop just there.
I continued training defensive skillslong range shooting even trap shooting.
I got into hunting.
I had that I was, I was fortunate tolive at the time in a state of Minnesota,
(07:22):
which has really very nice public.
hunting lands and a lot of differentgame that that you can go after.
So I became a hunter as well.
So my interests and my involvementin a community was growing.
From students, I quicklybecame a volunteer and an
instructor in a local gun club.
You know, Starting from somethingbasic like supporting gun range
(07:46):
maintenance and facilities maintenancehelping with the firearm safety
and hunter education classes,helping as a range safety officer.
And then soon enough I actuallyestablished a defensive pistol and
carbine league at the gun range.
It was something, it was somethingI thought was lacking in the area.
(08:09):
A lot of people would meet toshoot trap or shoot competition.
That was more of the fast and fun.
Like thought like we were lackingplaces to practice more of the defensive
shooting where your course of fire is not.
choreographed, but it's more of theproblem that you have to figure out
(08:30):
how you can solve with the skills thatyou have at a time or the physical
ability that you have at a time.
So that was one thing.
I also got interested inhistorical collectible firearms.
I didn't know that.
That's cool.
Yeah, with actually with a fewfriends at the range who were
(08:53):
collectors as well we started ahistorical show and tell gatherings.
We would bring whatever we had in ourcollection, we would come up with a theme.
So let's say World War II gunsor German guns or Russian guns or
early American service firearms.
(09:13):
We would bring what we had.
We shared the stories.
We we would showcase the guns.
And normally we had some of that odd ammocalibers that you probably don't hear much
about or don't realize that they exist.
And You know, whoever was at therange got to fire an old crack
rifle . That is really neat.
(09:35):
Or, or an old Eddie Stone or youknow the whole family of maers
going from Spanish maer to youknow, the most popular K 90 eights.
You, you name it.
And.
Eventually, I also got to serve a term onthe board of directors at the gun club.
(09:56):
So I was involved in thecommunity quite a bit.
Also, I supported a secondamendment efforts in the state.
And whenever the local gun ownershad a lobby days at the state
capital, I eagerly traveled.
(10:17):
And here is where my naturalized citizenbackground came very handy because on
the blue side of the aisle, the lawmakerswere were quite more receptive to
talk to a new citizen and a woman andta da da da, surprise she's pro gun.
That's really special.
(10:38):
I mean, you've really contributedto, to our United States.
You've taken yourcitizenship quite seriously.
You know, it is very precious for me.
I have a very deep appreciationand the gratitude that I was given
that opportunity to pledge myallegiance to red, white, and blue.
(11:02):
And I don't take it for granted.
Thanks.
Yes, I see that.
Now, as you've gone through thisjourney, how did this journey
drive you to be this amazingproduct and marketing professional?
Because now you've, you've, I mean,to me, what you're describing, you're
really building a history of knowledge.
(11:26):
That would benefit in any productand marketing role, because how I'm
not sure how people could do thatrole without having the exposure
to all these firearms and all thedifferent parts of our industry.
There's lots of niches likehunting and, and shooting.
And, you know, there's alot of different niches.
(11:46):
How, how has that helped you?
So as far as getting to the pointwhere I had a career in firearms
industry, that's happened in parallel.
Obviously, like you pointed out beinginvolved in variety of shooting sports
(12:07):
and adjacent environments like outdoorsand hunting that gave me that foundation.
You know, to use the professionaljargon to understand the really, very
wide spectrum of customer personastheir pain points you know, their
motivation and really what was.
Prompting them to favorone brand over another.
(12:31):
So that helped me to connect with thecustomer needs and with the customer
demographics, how, how varied it was.
And in the parallel I wasbuilding my professional career.
'cause when I first movedto United States, I had to
start from the very bottom.
You know, my experience, myeducation was from far away.
(12:54):
So everybody looked maybe not everybody,you know, I don't want to sound like a
whiner, but it's hard to translate that.
It's hard for people toget that translation.
The same thing happens with,with our military veterans.
They come out and they have allthis experience, but it's, This,
the civilian market, sometimesthe commercial market is, has a
(13:15):
really hard time translating that.
You know, without that firstgood solid American workforce
experience, it was just harder.
for me to convince a potentialemployer that I was a good
person for the, for the job.
Even when I, even when I ventured outto get an advice from a local workforce
(13:38):
center you know, very well meaningpeople there told me just start from
the very bottom, from the very entrylevel jobs because your education and
experiences from far, far, far away.
But what can you expect?
These were people from the governmentand were there to help, right?
(13:59):
Right.
Excellent point.
Yes.
But here you are, and you, youhave, you know, you're not a
person who, Needs to be humbled.
You're willing to get in thereand work hard and prove yourself.
I mean, I, I see your resume andI'm in awe because you've shown that
progression and the steps from whenyou became a citizen and came to the
(14:23):
United States, not in that order, cameto the United States, became a citizen.
The steps in your experience inyour resume, we're not half a
step here, half a step there.
They're five steps.
Five big steps and you've earnedyour way from what, you know,
and I see thousands of resumesand talk to thousands of people.
(14:43):
And I, I wanted to do this becauseit's just so it's so unique and it's
not that other people don't workhard, but you've, You've driven your
passion and your career like this.
And it's now, you know, all into one.
And I just think as a product manager,you probably have a really great
perspective on what, what will workand what will not, what will sell and
(15:08):
what will not, you know, one of thethings we just barely touched on when
we were off camera was a point youmade that I thought was brilliant.
I live in Cody, Wyoming.
And the demographicaround me looks like me.
They're like me.
They, you know, it's different.
The demographic in Minneapolis andMinnesota is much more diverse and a lot
(15:32):
of different types of cultures and people.
And I think as a product manager, that is.
Gold, you know, that's reallyimportant experience to have.
So I feel a little bit like going backto the question you asked a moment ago
which was how, how did my you know, how,how did I end up in the, in the firearms?
(15:57):
I started telling you thatit happened in parallel.
My professional careerbreakthrough At first happened
not in the firearms industry.
It actually happened in ahardware in kitchen component.
That's correct.
Area where I worked for a localfamily owned hardware distributor.
(16:18):
But You know, again, that was my Americandream from more of an entry level as a
purchasing assistant I got promoted to aproduct manager which was actually very
comprehensive role cause it encompassedeverything from forecasting and purchasing
through marketing, developing e commercechannels and marketplaces advertising
(16:42):
cops customer loyalty programs.
And in that setting, I happened to beespecially successful in scaling up e
commerce and bringing what you couldcall transformative growth in some areas.
marketplaces such as Amazon.
Once I had these accomplishmentsbehind my belt, that's opened the
(17:07):
door for me to join Revo Brands group.
I primarily work for Real Avid.
So really very great brand in the industryspecializing in gun cleaning and gun
maintenance and gun smithing tools.
So for me, that was heaven.
Yeah, that's really special.
(17:29):
Great brand, lots of exposure for you,and I'm sure you helped them tremendously.
Yes, I, I had a reallygreat time working there.
I joined the team in a capacityof the marketing business analyst.
But I, dedicated a lot of time and effort,uh, bringing growth to Amazon channel,
(17:50):
creating content basically directingthe creation of the marketing content
and search engine optimized contentfor e commerce and Pretty much doing,
doing the same thing again, bringingthat multiplying growth to Amazon
sales and other marketplaces as well.
(18:11):
That's fantastic.
Tell us about your rolewhen you were at FN.
Tell me the kind of, tell us aboutthe type of things you did and how
your experience, you know, with, with,Being exposed to the firearms industry
privately and all the things youlearned How did that affect your job
at fn and tell us a little bit aboutwhat does a product manager do at fn?
(18:36):
Tell us what that is.
A lot of people might not know what thatjob is yes, that's that's a good question.
Even my husband sometimesasks me what do you really do?
What is the job all day?
What is this job all about?
As you mentioned at FN America, Iwas back in the product manager role.
(18:59):
However, this time it was quitedifferent than for for the
hardware distribution company.
My focus was on pistol and also ontrade blazing special makes and custom
limited editions programs in the company.
That had to happen step by step orrather in a crawl walk run manner
(19:23):
because I need to develop a lot ofinternal processes suppliers, processes
with suppliers and Basically craft somesort of the foundation and the vision
and you know, basically basically setup the foundation why we want to make
special special makes and customs andwhat we want to achieve by having those
(19:47):
limited additions because it's not justabout Oh, well, let's paint a gun a
different color and see how it sells.
You know, I wanted to make sure thatit's aligned and that it supports company
vision, the brand promise, and that itbasically helps convey the Story and the
(20:08):
value and identity of the, of the brand.
So that's that was my focusof, of the work there.
And how, how do you think that yourexperience over the last couple of years?
How has that helped you becomea very, How does it help you
(20:28):
contribute to be a valuableproduct and marketing professional?
What are the things that you'veexperienced that you think have
been helpful and added to that job?
Well, so first of all, I don'tthink you can truly do this job
without the passion for the product.
(20:51):
It's you need to have interestTo you know be hands on with
the technical aspects of it.
You need to have that heart and thecapacity to be involved with the customers
to have the empathy with the customersand their problems and not be dismissive
You know, we talked about it a littlebit off the camera how the industry is
(21:16):
changing, how it's learning to addressdifferent needs of the shooters.
So we have different demographics,different experiences.
We have exponentially growing segment ofwomen shooters new shooters You know, or
even if we think about those gun ownerswho have had guns for generations our
(21:39):
society is becoming older and older.
We're aging.
So maybe we have a good history.
And maybe 20 years ago, theshooter was, capable of handling
45 or 50 cal or, you know, magnumcalibers without any problems.
But 20 years later with thearthritis maybe even a nine
(22:00):
millimeter is becoming challenging.
So Making, making a slide likebutter is a big deal in my world.
My hand strength isn't as strongas my husband's, for example.
And you know, when my daughterwent to go purchase a concealed
carry she was going to purchase.
(22:23):
X brand.
And I said, well, I don't thinkthat's going to work because you,
the slide is very hard to pull.
And if you can't do that, there'sno good to you or anybody else.
And it's just dangerous.
So let's go test them.
So we went to luckily a greatdealer and we're able to try
different firearms and it is, it'sa different need than it used to be.
(22:46):
You know, we're a different buyerand she ended up buying a gun that,
you know, was comfortable for her.
But as we get older andour population ages, we're.
Our choices are different.
And I would think a product manageris a very important part of deciding
what the company is going to buildand what they're going to sell.
(23:07):
And I would think that your diverseexposure to these different cultures and
different people, as you described to mein some of the women's groups and some of
the other groups that you've been in, Ithink is very valuable and women are not
the only buyers, but they certainly are.
I think we're making a lot ofheadway and being thinking about
(23:31):
products that women want to buy.
And they certainly in myworld do not need to be pink.
They need to be firearms that work,but at least our manufacturers, right?
You gave me an example.
Our marketing is getting better, right?
Our.
Don't you see some of the productsbeing marketed in a better way?
(23:55):
Marketed.
And I would also say you know, developedwith that different mindset we were
talking about it earlier, just you and me,a few years ago, you had that dogma in the
self defense training that, you know, Ninemillimeter is the one and only caliber.
(24:16):
And you know, if you can't managethe recoil, if you can't manage
the gun, too bad, go to the gym.
That was, that was the solution to theyou know, recoil management problem.
A few years down the road we hadmanufacturers that had Courage to come up
with that to, you know, really tune in tothose pain points of the weaker shooters.
(24:40):
You know, we had a very very successfulproduct on the market, easy shield.
You can criticize the gun.
You don't have to like the gun,but you definitely need to have
appreciation for how the requirementsdeveloped and how right on point
a lot of features in this gun was.
(25:00):
Easy to rack, easy to shoot.
So, you know, a caliber that is moremanageable for weaker shooters, for maybe
elderly shooters you know, all the littlegizmos that allow it to load it easier.
You know, that's, that'sthe answer to the problem.
That's not dismissing the problem.
(25:21):
And also, you know, from my experiencewith the inner workings of a lot of
big companies it takes a lot of courageand a lot of guts to Push and pursue
and launch this type of product.
Well, it's a big investment.
And what if it doesn't work out, youknow, and I do think you're right.
(25:42):
We are, we really havemade massive headway.
And I think people, me included,tend to focus unfairly so
that we're not making headway.
And if you really look back, wereally are making massive headway
in technology and improvements.
You take ammunition, forexample, yesterday I ordered.
(26:05):
Some 45 ammunition from Liberty ammunitionbecause I carry a 45 when I'm out and that
makes not only is it great ammunition, butit, it's, it's a fraction of the weight of
the other ammunition that I used to carry.
So my 45, it mightweigh more than my nine.
(26:28):
But when I put, you know, Libertyammunition in it, it weighs even less.
And, you know, can I carry a heavier gun?
Sure.
But am I really going to do that if I'mjust going to take a walk with my dogs?
I just think all of this combined,we really are making great headway.
But it takes, in my opinion, People likeyou to be able to say we could do this.
(26:55):
You know, it takes really brilliantproduct marketing people to be able to
say, Hey, have we thought about this?
Here's a demographic thatwould really respond.
Well, if we designed a pistol likethis, you know, and I think it's really
brave companies that are innovative,innovative that drive our industry.
(27:16):
And I'm, I'm ever so gratefulthat we were connected.
And I, I just think that youare the future of our industry.
I would love to say it's me,but I can't design anything.
I could be a buyer though.
So thank you Ela forbeing on this podcast.
And I want to remind our listeners thatyou know, I would connect with Ela if
(27:40):
you could, under any circumstances,because she's a fine example of
what the future of our industry is.
And I look forward to many years.
of being connected and seeing theproducts that you share with our
industry and the products that you'reable to market and the future is bright.
(28:01):
So thank you.
Thank you, Ela, for being on the podcast.
Well, thank you again,Shaylene, for having me.
That was my honor, my pleasure as well.
All right.
Well, this is a, another episodeof HeadHunters NW podcast.
And thank you so much for listeningand being a part of our world.
(28:21):
And I look forward to the next podcast.
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