December 17, 2024 • 30 mins
Welcome to HeadHunters NW Podcast! I'm Shaylene Keiner, an executive recruiter with a passion for the global defense, small arms and shooting sectors. Join me as I sit down with top executives and industry leaders to dive deep into the world of global manufacturing, service companies, non-profits and more. Together, we explore the latest trends, innovations, and the inspiring stories behind the people who drive this dynamic industry forward. Whether you're a seasoned pro or just curious about what makes this world tick, you're in for engaging conversations that go beyond the surface. Let's uncover the fascinating stories and insights that shape the global defense, small arms and shooting sectors. Subscribe now and become a part of our community!
Join Shaylene as she interviews Ben Fleming, President of Primary Weapons Systems and Lone Wolf Arms. In this engaging episode, Ben shares his career journey, from his early days in university to leading prominent firearm manufacturers. He discusses the importance of connections in the industry, the evolution of Bergara Rifles, and the innovative spirit behind CBA and PWS. Learn about the industry's unique aspects and the exciting future of Lone Wolf Arms and Primary Weapons Systems. Perfect for anyone interested in the inner workings and personal stories within the firearms industry.
Websites: https://primaryweapons.com/ and https://lonewolfdist.com/
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Shaylene (00:00):
Hello everyone, this is Shaylene Keiner.
Welcome to another podcast episodewith HeadHunters NW podcast.
I have been wanting to do thispodcast for a long time and I didn't
tell Ben that when I asked him.
But I've known about Ben and seenBen and met Ben at trade shows,
but we've never really had time toconnect because Well, let's be honest.
(00:26):
Ben is such a hot hot hottalent in our industry.
He never needs a recruiter.
So I am super excited for youguys the listeners and if you're
watching this to meet ben flemingwho is the president of primary
weapons systems and lone wolf arms.
(00:46):
And prior to this, Ben was a big wigat BPI, and we'll go into that too.
But welcome, Ben.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
I, I didn't, you know, admitto that, but it is all true.
Ben (00:59):
I love it.
I'm so grateful to be here and thankyou for having me and thank you
for the kind introduction as well.
That means a lot.
Shaylene (01:07):
Well, it's a great industry and off camera we were just talking
about the people in our industryand I know I say this a lot on our
podcast, but I really believe it.
It is a really special industrybecause it's really supportive of
Families and people's careers andeven competitors helping each other.
And, you know, and you're really,you've been in the industry a long time.
(01:31):
And I would love for people to hearabout how you were not in the industry.
Originally, just like all of us,we go get our experience somewhere
and we land here and we go home,this is where I need to be.
Let's start with talking aboutyour career and talk about.
How did that begin?
(01:52):
And how did you end upgetting where you are today?
And let's kind of walk through thatbecause it's really interesting.
Ben (01:59):
I agree.
And, and I, I think you're spot onand, and how you described it there.
I, I got, I went to auniversity a long time ago.
It seems like at this point And andwhen I graduated I, you know, had
just a mix of, of different thingsthat, that I'd done along the way.
I'm one of those weird guysthat loves commission jobs.
(02:22):
And when I was a kid, I was a doorto door salesman and it just, I love
meeting new people and it, I think whatI didn't realize when I was younger.
It really comes from my drivefor relationship and connection.
And, and that's not justconnection that makes commission.
That's, that's any level of connection,connecting good people with other
(02:44):
good people and developing long termrelationships with folks that, that grow.
It just brings me so much joy.
And so.
When, when I, you know, I met agentleman based out of Nashville
where I live and he had a shop thathe ran here, a manufacturing business
that we, it's kind of based, we hadan Illinois distribution center.
(03:05):
And we source products fromAsia and places like that.
But we were mainly in that the kindof the sporting clays and, and steel
target business and things like that.
A really cool family that, thathad a rich background, just
kind of this mechanical mindset.
And they, you know, if they saw somethingthat, that was really cool, they
would build it and make it their own.
And so it was the innovation and,and kind of the entrepreneurial
(03:28):
spirit of, of this family.
It was just super cool.
And so he offered me a job and that wasmy first entrance into the, the industry.
And at first I, you know, like anythingas a 20 young, 20 something year old,
just like, what, this is amazing.
Like, you know, you get
Shaylene (03:45):
paid to do this.
Oh, yeah, I know youhear that all the time.
Ben (03:50):
That's the one, you know, people are like, well, what do you do for a living?
You know, I go work in the outdoorand show, how do you get to do that?
And
Shaylene (03:56):
yeah,
Ben (03:56):
it's, it's, and I'm look, I know we all have our good days and bad days too.
It's, it's it's like any industry,but what, what an incredible space.
And, and I certainly realizedthat right at first too, it was.
You know, really my first experiencesof going to shot show and working the
by group shows and getting to meet allof these people who I'm fortunate to
(04:17):
still call friends and, and a lot ofthem coworkers, and I just, I fell in
love with it and, and the thing thatI fell in love with most of all was.
Just that, that aspect of connecting withfolks and, and getting them, you know,
you go, you go to a retailer and youmeet a buyer and you have a connection
with this, you know, with the buyer.
And it's, it grows into this reallyprosperous relationship together.
(04:41):
And, and not just something that,you know, you're wishing each other
happy birthday and you're, you know,Checking on the kids and, you know,
you're there, you, you celebrate themwhen they, when they shoot a great
animal on a hunt and, you know, it'sjust, it's really genuine really loyal.
And it's a level of connection that, thatlike you and I were saying before this,
I don't think many industries share that,that same type of, of connection, but I
(05:03):
do think that's, that's really born from.
What we're in this industry for, whichis, you know, we love connection.
We love the outdoors.
We love conservation.
We love you know, people gettingtogether around the campfire
and telling great stories.
And it's, you know, it's no different.
I feel like than, than what it wasaside from the technology aspect aside
(05:25):
from what it was, you know, decadesand a century ago and I've just,
I've so enjoyed it and I, I love.
And so I worked in that that job for Iwas there for about six and a half years.
And I love You know this about me.
I when I get to a place, I'm notthe guy that likes to just fix a
(05:45):
few things and hop to another spot.
I really, you know, it's family to me.
And so I'm very loyal where I am.
And I love that thatfor that to be shared.
In a relationship that we grow becausewe love to see each other grow.
And so I had another opportunity comealong when, when BPI had approached
me, I remember we were at a Bidengroup show and they, Nate and Dudley
(06:10):
had come up to me and just said, Hey,you know, kind of, we're at the bar
afterwards, which, you know, is kind ofstatus quo for the end of a trade show.
And they came up to me and said, Hey,are you interested in coming over to BPI?
And I was like, what's BPI very naturally.
And so they told me a little bit about it.
And we, we talked you know, Iwent down there and saw them.
(06:31):
And at that time it was really just CBA.
Which is a great, you know, kind ofmuzzleloading company single shot rifles.
They do accessories and, andmuzzleloading bullets and stuff like that.
And so, I mean, very honestly, rightat first, I'm like, I don't know
the first thing about muzzleloading.
I've never shot a muzzleloader in my life.
(06:51):
Right.
Why are you interested in me?
And so I, you know, likeanything in this industry, I
guess, but that's how it starts.
And I went down there and we hung outfor a weekend and shot muzzleloader.
So I got to do that.
And I just fell in love with the peoplein the culture and it just was, it was
kind of one of those times where I lovedwhat I did before, but it was just a very
(07:13):
natural time to move on to the next thing.
For no other reason than that.
What's that?
Shaylene (07:19):
What year was that?
Ben (07:21):
That was 2011.
Shaylene (07:22):
Okay.
Okay.
That's right.
Ben (07:24):
Yeah.
Spring of spring of 2011.
So I hired on with BPI.
And so we at that point we had,like I said, CBA and we had a
small little barrel company atthe time called Bergara Barrels.
That we were, you know, we were workingto do OEM business and we were working
with a lot of other great manufacturersin the industry, making barrels for them.
(07:44):
And the one thing we could do is makea really, really fantastic barrel.
And so we had something there and weworked on that and the CVA side and grew
that a bunch from 2011 to about 2013.
And then we started, wecame up with this concept.
We were like, what if we turn thisbarrel company into a rifle company?
And, and so we went out and we kind of,we pulled the thread on that a little bit.
(08:08):
We, we decided to, you know, lookand see what that would look like.
Well, could we do it?
And everything that we made was, well,not everything, but the majority of
it was made in, in Northern Spain, inthe Basque region of Spain from our,
our parrot company that's based there.
We got with them and they're like,what do you guys think about this?
And, you know, of course they, youknow, they see the opportunity and
(08:28):
where the industry was at the time.
And it was just perfectly timed.
I mean, like.
I kid you not, it was just provenance.
Like it, it was, you couldn'thave picked a better time to
Shaylene (08:39):
say you're so talented about helping drive this whole new brand.
You're not good at bragging at all.
It really did start with nothing.
Right.
The
Ben (08:52):
bear, the barrel side of it.
And so, yeah, we got together andwe said, let's make a rifle company.
And slowly, but surely,you know, come 2015.
We brought out Bergara rifles and,and that was, I gotta be honest.
That was the most fun I've hadand the scariest times I've
had in my professional career.
(09:14):
And, and I think I shared this withyou when we were talking on the phone,
but there is this aspect of, youknow, you're sitting at a trade show
and, and somebody says, you know, youknow, how many do you want me to buy?
And I'm like, please justbuy one, you know, one today.
And that's our goal.
many as we can.
But it was, you know, to be atzero and to just kind of grow
(09:37):
that with a great team around me.
I couldn't have done it.
There's no way I couldhave done it on my own.
You know that.
I mean, it's
Shaylene (09:43):
not a one.
That's the beauty of everything, right?
There's not a single businessI can think of, including mine.
That is done by one person.
I have people behind the sceneshelping me like with these podcasts
and all kinds of other resources.
And when you have a great team,you can really accomplish a lot.
I mean, when you, when you, when youleft and I don't want to jump that
(10:06):
far ahead yet because it was years.
What were the sales for Bergara?
Like, how exciting was thatto go from zero to what?
Ben (10:15):
Oh, when I left, we were doing a little north of 70 million.
Shaylene (10:19):
Wow.
Ben (10:21):
It's incredible.
I mean, I, I really can't believe it.
And to be a part of that, it's somethingthat I'll hold close to my heart forever.
I mean, what an incredible companyand our, our parent company in Spain.
And the folks in Lawrenceville, Georgia,100%, there's no other way for me to
say it, except like they're family.
(10:42):
And we, you know, we went throughall the good and the bad and the hard
and they're just incredible folks.
And, and at that point, like you saidearlier, I mean, everybody sticks together
and it takes each person, you know, kindof committing to, to what they're doing
and, and what, what the company's goal is.
To really drive that forward.
(11:02):
And I'm so proud of, of whatthat team has done there.
And, and it was, I think, veryunderstandably and naturally when I
made that decision to, to go ahead andleave, it was, gosh, it was like, you
know, moving away to college and sayinggoodbye, saying goodbye to your family.
When you
Shaylene (11:22):
worked there, when you worked there and you were, you
know, obviously closer towardsthe end of getting the leave.
Talk to me about the structure of thiscompany because you are working with a
lot of different parts of the company.
You're no doubt working veryclosely with marketing, right?
And you were, you know,did you guys have an in?
(11:42):
We didn't talk about this ahead oftime, so I don't even know the answers.
Did you have an inside salesteam or did you have reps or did
you have a combination of both?
I mean, how does thatlook in the industry?
Ben (11:53):
So we had, I had a national sales manager that worked with me inside.
We had an in house marketingteam who was great.
And our national salesmanager was awesome.
Just, just thought the world of them.
Now I'm going to be biasedhere because I love reps.
I love our I've worked with,with several rep groups.
One of them in particular, since I cameinto this industry in the early 2000s
(12:17):
and, and worked with them all along.
And so I'm going to be very biased.
I think they're incredible.
I think that they, they are, they goabove and beyond to, to help brands.
Really, I mean, if you think about it.
Really just on a commission basis too.
There's no ownership.
There's no equity.
They're, they're juggling a lot ofdifferent companies and, and, and telling
(12:40):
brand stories for a lot of differentfolks and doing it really, really well.
And so I'm a big, big fan of, ofindependent rep agencies in this industry.
And, and they are, they don't get enoughpraise, but they certainly deserve it.
And they will always get it from me.
Shaylene (12:55):
Yeah, and you know, for anyone who's listening that doesn't
really understand how that works.
There are rep groups in our industryand you probably, you know, most people
probably do know this, but I thinkof them as like tentacles, you know,
they're out there covering the ground,you know, and coming back in and, you
know, You know, circling the wagonsand you guys at the manufacturers are
(13:15):
teaching 'em about the new products.
Here's what our new ideas are, andit's a lot of give and take because
they're giving you feedback onwhat the dealers have to say and
what they need to be successful.
Ben (13:27):
Oh, absolutely.
Yeah.
And they, and, and they're, they maygo in and talk about Briga and CVA
one day, and they're talking about.
Five other brands at the same time.
And it, and that goes fromfishing to archery, to air guns,
to, you know, hunting rifles.
So it's, I mean, they've got a lot of,of information to be able to digest
and, and they're, you know, they're,they're pounding the pavement every day.
(13:49):
They're getting in the truck and they'redriving to all of those locations.
A lot of times on their own dime and andit is just like anybody I mean, that's
a lot of time away from family and andthey really do some incredible things
They they are such a large portion of whowe are as an industry That that really
don't get talked about a whole lot.
Shaylene (14:11):
Yeah, that's true I don't know that on any of my podcasts
we've sat and talked about that.
So you're right.
It isn't Brought up asmuch as it should be.
So that's a great thing to bring up.
Now, when you were at BPI, were youonly over sales or did you interact with
other departments or how did that look?
Ben (14:28):
So kind of CBA, I started as a national sales manager and then
grew into vice president of sales.
And then when Bergara started Imoved into VP of sales for Bergara.
And then we, we kind of shuffledsome folks over on the CBA side.
So I had a counterpart that wejust kind of worked together, but,
but working to grow each one ofthose brands independently and I
(14:49):
did work with sales and marketing.
We worked very hand in handwith a new product development.
I would go to Spain with our, with ournew product team and our engineers.
We'd go over there several times a year.
And it just, I'm the type of guy that, youknow, I love to throw stuff up against the
wall and go, Hey, we know what's going on.
We got a great pulse in the industry.
(15:11):
You know, what kind ofstuff should we chase here?
And so you throw it out there andno knowingly you're, you're going to
reject, you know, 98 percent of it.
And, and you find those littlekind of diamonds in the rough.
And so we'd spend a good bit of timewith marketing, with sales, with
engineering, with new product development,with brand managers, with CEOs and.
All kinds of people like that both,both in Spain and here and, and
(15:34):
try to find those ideas that, thatcould take us to the next level.
Shaylene (15:37):
That's great.
Well, it's a very successful brand.
And I know that the people you worked withat BPI where you were very close to, and
I of course, remember that you reportedto and worked with Nate tread away.
Yeah, I hope your ears are burningNate and Great guy just a great guy
(15:59):
and then nate had a great opportunityAnd jumped over to a manual u.
s manufacturing company here And I was notsurprised to see that at some juncture.
He said hey, I need help andWhat a great what a great.
Special thing to be Askedto follow The guy that you
(16:21):
reported to, to his new company.
That is quite a complimentof what it really
Ben (16:26):
is.
Yeah.
And, and, and a good fit too, I thinkfor both of us, you know, Nate and I,
we did, we did that together at Bergara.
We, we worked super closely at CBA.
When, when he was the president atCBA, I just kind of come on board
and really kind of filled some ofthose roles that That he and Dudley
had had left off in the past and
Shaylene (16:47):
mm-hmm
And,
Ben (16:48):
and I would just describe us as, I mean, the three of us together
were you, I mean, it's that oldsaying of our, our, our strengths
complimented each other and Yeah.
And where, where I may have been a littlebit weaker in one side, one of those guys.
Was super strong and, and wereally created such a strong
group of, of individuals and, andNate moved into that CEO role.
(17:10):
And, and like you said, I wasn't surprisedto see him jump on an opportunity.
Like he did to, to go, gooff and, and invest and buy
into, into PWS and lone wolf.
And it was, I think initially it wasa sad goodbye and, you know, let's
keep in touch and we'll be goodbuddies in the industry and, and.
(17:31):
Honestly, it came, maybe I'm a,I'm a little bit naive here, but it
came as a little bit of a surprisefor him to come ringing on my door.
Yeah.
And but I was grateful for it and yeah.
And it, I, it, it's been a, a good fit.
And, and what, what a great, greatcompany, set of companies really lone wolf
on its side and, and PWS on the other.
(17:51):
What an incredible company.
Shaylene (17:55):
Tell our listeners about what those two companies do, what products
they produce, and share with us.
Because I don't know that I couldaccurately share that well enough.
Ben (18:07):
Sure, and you know, I'm realizing a theme here as I'm talking about this.
I came into P.
A.
W.
S.
also saying, like, I don'tknow anything about this.
Like, you know, C.
B.
A.
with Muzzleloader?
So, obviously there'sa common theme there.
But but the real joy thatI've had and getting to know
who both of those brands are.
P.
W.
S.
Is I'll I'll go go out on a limb andsay there is no better quality, more
(18:35):
accurate rifle on the market in thatgenre of firearms than primary weapons.
I mean, just an unbelievable company.
And I would say that Nate even carriedover a lot of that ethos that we
believed in how we started Bergara.
Accuracy is key.
quality control telling of agenuine and authentic brand story.
(18:56):
I mean, there's nothing could bemore true of those two companies
than, than that in itself.
And I, I remember when we, when Iwent out there for some interviews
and shot some of those firearms,I was like, this is unbelievable.
I mean, they were, It, it was,it was one of those rare moments
where I actually kind of had a wow.
(19:17):
I was like, wow, this is these,like they perform more so than
anything I could have ever imagined.
And, and I think that added packagetogether with, you know, the history
that Nate and I had, plus the teamthat exists over at PWS in Long Wolf.
It was just a logical and, and, andreal understandable connection that
(19:39):
although in much of a differentside of the industry, right?
We went from archery to,to fishing, it feels like,
You know, you go, you go intofrom hunting kind of that hunting
and shooting world or that, youknow, MSR kind of kind of market.
And
Shaylene (19:54):
yeah.
Ben (19:55):
Even though, you know, the, the temperature of the industry
and the, the seasons of it,you, you lose a lot of that.
It's more of kind ofa year round business.
And as you know, and I'msure our listeners do.
When it's good there, there ain't nothingbetter in the industry than, than that.
And it's hot, you know, and so, butwhen it's cold, it, it, it's tough
(20:16):
and you gotta, you gotta reallyscrap for a lot of that stuff.
And it definitely has more of those kindof those spikes and that volatility than,
than I would say the hunting market does,or even, you know, the muzzleloading
market is, is, is very predictable.
Although growing in different ways, butyeah, it's been predictable historically.
Shaylene (20:34):
It is really interesting.
I think people who don't work in ourindustry very long or have just joined
us, they really underestimate how manyniches there are inside our niche.
Yeah, so it's not justthe sporting industry.
It's not modern sporting rifles.
It's not hunting.
(20:55):
It's it's it's all of it and thenthere's inside there's all these
niches and all of those have theirown cycle and their own season.
Ben (21:05):
Absolutely.
Now that's a that's a greatopportunity to say even within PWS.
I mean you look at that and ifyou if you put it out there and
I held it up and showed everybodythat go, well, that's an AR.
And, and looks like it see, youknow, everything points to yes.
And, and it is, but they're built inthe whole company's history is built
(21:26):
around a long stroke piston system,which the AK uses the same thing.
It's built around this very,very reliable, robust system
that makes that firearm operate.
So it's not.
Although it looks like a me too item.
There's actually a ton of, aton of technology put into that.
And a lot of engineering put intothat, that actually makes it a good bit
(21:47):
different now, to your point a secondago, that is even a subset within that
category of MSRs or ARs and most ofthe manufacturer that manufacturers out
there are doing direct impingement orDI guns and a lot of things like that.
Although that is a larger market.
You know, PWS has stayed very faithful.
(22:08):
To kind of in their lane, so to speakof being one of the best long stroke
piston companies on the market.
Shaylene (22:16):
Now for our listeners, what's the website?
Is that website?
It's primary weaponssystems dot com, isn't it?
Ben (22:23):
It's just primary weapons dot com.
Shaylene (22:25):
Primary weapons dot com.
Okay, thank you.
And then now it's lone wolf.
Are they just What are they doing?
What is that company do?
Ben (22:36):
So lone wolf historically was a major parts manufacturer.
Mainly in kind of, yep.
Mainly in, in kind of the Glockcomponents and, and Glock clone stuff.
Back when 80 percent werea big deal, they, they were
a fantastic source for 80%.
And they've done, if you geton the website and look at
(22:56):
it, it's, it's everything.
I mean, it is, it's you know,springs and triggers and all kinds,
I mean, everything that you couldimagine it, it's, it's there.
And I will say, When it comesto kind of a very quiet, strong
company Lone Wolf is one of them.
Not everybody in the world knowsabout them, but it's one of those
(23:18):
where you're like, Oh, yeah,yeah, check out this company.
And then you're like, Oh,I've seen them before.
You, you know yeah, they're very
Shaylene (23:23):
under the radar.
I mean, I don't know if you know this,but I lived 20 minutes from there.
Ben (23:28):
Oh really?
Shaylene (23:29):
Before I moved and I lived in North Idaho, just very close to Lone Wolf.
So
Ben (23:34):
what a pretty area.
Oh my God.
I love going out there.
It's so great.
Shaylene (23:38):
It's really, yeah.
Ben (23:39):
When I, when I hired on, I, I remember going to visit
and meeting the team and.
And honestly, my, one of my firstthoughts was this brand has the most
potential of, of any brand that I'vewalked into in the last little while.
I mean, PWS is great and it's ina different area, but lone wolf.
It is such an incredible brands whenit comes to components and barrels.
(24:02):
And now they're making complete pistols.
So, so we've got I mean, gosh, whenyou look up that the SKUs, I mean,
there's 10, 12, 15 different SKUsor more of, of complete pistols that
are on that kind of Glock 19, Glock17, Glock 19 X, that kind of stuff.
So.
Like anybody in this industry, you know,Glock's done an incredible job and they've
(24:23):
created, I mean, they're like the scotchtape of, of handguns, you know, I mean,
they're, they are the staple brand.
And, and we do what I loveabout what lone wolf has done.
Is they created something that is, itlooks like it, it feels like it, it
is kind of considered a Glock clone.
But on those models, we didactually did a 1911 grip angle.
(24:45):
So when you pick that, when youpick that complete pistol up and you
feel it I love a 1911 personally,I'm, I'm, I'm very biased on that.
It's one of my favorite firearms ever.
And so when I picked that up, I'm like,Oh, this is what we're talking about.
Like it is
Shaylene (24:59):
great.
Yeah, that's what I carry when I walkaround out here in the, you know,
we're out on the reservoir here.
There's plenty of grizzliesand all kinds of other things.
I mean, I probably should be like youguys can carry those big cannons, but
I think I just fall down on my butt.
If I tried to shoot one of those.
Yeah, nothing like a 1911 in your handbecause you know, you got something and
(25:21):
you know, it's not going anywhere else.
Ben (25:23):
Yeah, I
Shaylene (25:24):
you guys are making those now.
Where do you sell your lone wolf products?
Do you buy do can theybuy them from dealers?
Can people buy them online?
What's what are you guys doing with that?
Ben (25:35):
That would be a yes to both.
We do sell online And we've got a greatdealer network, too We've got by group
members all across the country thatthat stock it just at the dealer level
we actually just got set up and we'reselling into Bass Pro and Cabela's at
this point, they'll have frames and slidesand barrels and complete pistols and all
(25:56):
of that stuff here in the next you know,we're honestly this week we're, we're
shipping the, their first shipment out.
So I've, I've worked with thoseguys over there for a long time.
I think the world of them all theway back to the Cabela's days and
the, and the old Bass Pro teambefore they even got together.
And what a, what a great group of people.
And so when I, when I came over here,they, they were one of the first
(26:18):
people that I went and talked to.
And, and they've again, going backto those relationships, you know,
it's, it's some of those just loyalvery friendships, you know, I mean,
it's, it's just, at that point you'redealing with, with, with friends.
And the reality is people dobusiness with people that they
really like to do business with.
There's no truer, youknow, thing than that.
(26:39):
And in our industry.
It thrives on that.
And I've said all along, Imean, I've had reps who were,
were reps with me for a while.
And all of a sudden they're at a buyer at,you know, a major retailer distributor.
It's you just, you know, thoserelationships are meant to keep
going and, and things can get hard.
(27:00):
Competitors can get competitive at times.
And you know, I think at the end of theday though, it's one of those industries
where we can very, very peacefully allget together at a, you know, at a, in a,
in a ballroom, you know, at a party or.
You know a cocktail hour at atrade show in everybody's just
glad to see everyone else.
We're in it for the same reason
Shaylene (27:21):
Yeah, it is.
It is that great now.
Are there any relationships andpartnerships you guys are looking for
as far as Industry or or non industryand I didn't ask you this ahead of time.
I didn't think to do it, but As PWSand lone wolf keeps evolving because I
(27:41):
mean, you know, with you and Nate thereand the good people in North Idaho and
Southern Idaho, you know, this is just arelationship is key is an understatement.
So, you know, I want to work with you.
If I were one of these othermanufacturers, you know, looking for
a partner, OEM, I don't really know.
So I don't want to putwords in your mouth, but.
(28:03):
Are there some partnerships you're lookingto build here to strengthen those brands?
Ben (28:10):
I I would that's always a yes for me Even some that I don't even know about yet
Shaylene (28:16):
Yeah,
Ben (28:17):
but I you know in that specific segment of the business you know
components those are those are bigLego kits for a lot of adults, you know
So you're pulling something off andputting something else on and so it's
important for us to You know You know,holster compatibility you know, slings
and optic mounts and all kinds of stuff.
(28:37):
So we're, we're constantly trying toevolve with, with the industry and, and
where, you know, if, if Magpul bringssomething new out, we want to make
sure it's compatible with our stuff.
If a men too is bringing outsome of the great products, like
they're bringing out, we were.
Were you trying to utilize those?
Yeah, right.
There you go.
We're trying to utilize thoseand make sure they're compatible
(28:57):
with, with our products.
And so I would say that's, that's alwaysevolving and trying to, to, to grow.
We just had, we realizedwe had like a small cut.
These are some of the old, old modelson one of our lone wolf slides that
just had a little trouble lockingup in one specific holster at that.
And so we shifted how we did thaton future models in, in that,
(29:21):
that made all the difference.
And so it's just, it's justtrying to keep up with, with that
compatibility, but you, you know, aswell as I do, I mean, with the amount
of, new caliber introductions and
Shaylene (29:33):
all
Ben (29:33):
the innovation coming into our business.
And there's, it's a, it's a constantjuggling of, of meeting new people
and making sure that it works.
Shaylene (29:43):
Yeah, forget sleeping.
You have to keep up onwho's releasing what.
Ben (29:47):
Yeah.
Well, I really, and some exampleswould be, you know, eight, six blackout
hornet's bringing out that 3 38 arc.
I mean, it, it's like, oh my gosh,like we've gotta react to this.
And, and some of it at times canbe really hard to, to build around.
Yeah.
And, and, and it's, youknow, our engineers are.
Talking to their engineers and tryingto figure out how to, what do we
need to do with the barrel here?
(30:07):
And what do we need to do with,you know, it's just a mix of, of
all kinds of different things,but that, that's our job.
And even when I was with Bergara, I mean,same thing, centerfire hunting calibers
come out and you better be ready to do itbecause that's what they're going to want.
Shaylene (30:22):
Yeah, and that's, I mean, it's not a boring industry to be in.
People may step back and saynothing changes, but it does change.
And look at these newcalibers, for example.
There's all kinds of ways that allthese companies are trying to innovate.
And when you're supplying parts andyou're making products that are,
you know as reliable and excellentquality is what you guys are.
(30:44):
There's constantly tweaking andchanging and updating to keep up.
Ben (30:48):
It's
Shaylene (30:48):
a lot.
Ben (30:49):
Yeah, it, it's a, I feel bad for our engineering team and I, and I'm so
appreciative of them at the same time.
Like I said, about reps, they are the onesin the background who make it all happen.
And most of the time they're not evensitting there at all the buying group
shows and, you know, they aren't shachousually, but A lot of these shows people
are like great job and and those arethe the people that should get the pat
(31:12):
on the back You know, not not me theywere the ones who did all of the work.
Shaylene (31:17):
It takes a lot of people to make this stuff work Well, I really
appreciate you being on the podcast ben.
Thank you I do think you have a reallyinteresting background and now here you
are The president of these two companiesand I have no doubt your career will
continue to grow You But if you, youknow, if anyone's listening to this, you
should reach out to Ben will no doubtinclude his LinkedIn profile somewhere.
(31:42):
So you can reach him that way and checkout PWS and lone wolf and their products.
And thank you again, Ben, verymuch for taking the time to share
with us about all of the thingsyou've done in this great industry.
It's a, it's a blessing to know you.
And thank you for being on the podcast.
Ben (31:58):
Thank you, Shaylene.
I feel the same.
I'm so grateful for the opportunity.
Thanks for having me.
Shaylene (32:04):
And that's it for this episode of the HeadHunters NW podcast.
We'll be talking to you again next week.
Thanks.
Hello everyone, this is Shaylene Keiner.
Welcome to another podcast episodewith HeadHunters NW podcast.
I have been wanting to do thispodcast for a long time and I didn't
tell Ben that when I asked him.
But I've known about Ben and seenBen and met Ben at trade shows,
but we've never really had time toconnect because Well, let's be honest.
(00:26):
Ben is such a hot hot hottalent in our industry.
He never needs a recruiter.
So I am super excited for youguys the listeners and if you're
watching this to meet ben flemingwho is the president of primary
weapons systems and lone wolf arms.
(00:46):
And prior to this, Ben was a big wigat BPI, and we'll go into that too.
But welcome, Ben.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
I, I didn't, you know, admitto that, but it is all true.
Ben (00:59):
I love it.
I'm so grateful to be here and thankyou for having me and thank you
for the kind introduction as well.
That means a lot.
Shaylene (01:07):
Well, it's a great industry and off camera we were just talking
about the people in our industryand I know I say this a lot on our
podcast, but I really believe it.
It is a really special industrybecause it's really supportive of
Families and people's careers andeven competitors helping each other.
And, you know, and you're really,you've been in the industry a long time.
(01:31):
And I would love for people to hearabout how you were not in the industry.
Originally, just like all of us,we go get our experience somewhere
and we land here and we go home,this is where I need to be.
Let's start with talking aboutyour career and talk about.
How did that begin?
(01:52):
And how did you end upgetting where you are today?
And let's kind of walk through thatbecause it's really interesting.
Ben (01:59):
I agree.
And, and I, I think you're spot onand, and how you described it there.
I, I got, I went to auniversity a long time ago.
It seems like at this point And andwhen I graduated I, you know, had
just a mix of, of different thingsthat, that I'd done along the way.
I'm one of those weird guysthat loves commission jobs.
(02:22):
And when I was a kid, I was a doorto door salesman and it just, I love
meeting new people and it, I think whatI didn't realize when I was younger.
It really comes from my drivefor relationship and connection.
And, and that's not justconnection that makes commission.
That's, that's any level of connection,connecting good people with other
(02:44):
good people and developing long termrelationships with folks that, that grow.
It just brings me so much joy.
And so.
When, when I, you know, I met agentleman based out of Nashville
where I live and he had a shop thathe ran here, a manufacturing business
that we, it's kind of based, we hadan Illinois distribution center.
(03:05):
And we source products fromAsia and places like that.
But we were mainly in that the kindof the sporting clays and, and steel
target business and things like that.
A really cool family that, thathad a rich background, just
kind of this mechanical mindset.
And they, you know, if they saw somethingthat, that was really cool, they
would build it and make it their own.
And so it was the innovation and,and kind of the entrepreneurial
(03:28):
spirit of, of this family.
It was just super cool.
And so he offered me a job and that wasmy first entrance into the, the industry.
And at first I, you know, like anythingas a 20 young, 20 something year old,
just like, what, this is amazing.
Like, you know, you get
Shaylene (03:45):
paid to do this.
Oh, yeah, I know youhear that all the time.
Ben (03:50):
That's the one, you know, people are like, well, what do you do for a living?
You know, I go work in the outdoorand show, how do you get to do that?
And
Shaylene (03:56):
yeah,
Ben (03:56):
it's, it's, and I'm look, I know we all have our good days and bad days too.
It's, it's it's like any industry,but what, what an incredible space.
And, and I certainly realizedthat right at first too, it was.
You know, really my first experiencesof going to shot show and working the
by group shows and getting to meet allof these people who I'm fortunate to
(04:17):
still call friends and, and a lot ofthem coworkers, and I just, I fell in
love with it and, and the thing thatI fell in love with most of all was.
Just that, that aspect of connecting withfolks and, and getting them, you know,
you go, you go to a retailer and youmeet a buyer and you have a connection
with this, you know, with the buyer.
And it's, it grows into this reallyprosperous relationship together.
(04:41):
And, and not just something that,you know, you're wishing each other
happy birthday and you're, you know,Checking on the kids and, you know,
you're there, you, you celebrate themwhen they, when they shoot a great
animal on a hunt and, you know, it'sjust, it's really genuine really loyal.
And it's a level of connection that, thatlike you and I were saying before this,
I don't think many industries share that,that same type of, of connection, but I
(05:03):
do think that's, that's really born from.
What we're in this industry for, whichis, you know, we love connection.
We love the outdoors.
We love conservation.
We love you know, people gettingtogether around the campfire
and telling great stories.
And it's, you know, it's no different.
I feel like than, than what it wasaside from the technology aspect aside
(05:25):
from what it was, you know, decadesand a century ago and I've just,
I've so enjoyed it and I, I love.
And so I worked in that that job for Iwas there for about six and a half years.
And I love You know this about me.
I when I get to a place, I'm notthe guy that likes to just fix a
(05:45):
few things and hop to another spot.
I really, you know, it's family to me.
And so I'm very loyal where I am.
And I love that thatfor that to be shared.
In a relationship that we grow becausewe love to see each other grow.
And so I had another opportunity comealong when, when BPI had approached
me, I remember we were at a Bidengroup show and they, Nate and Dudley
(06:10):
had come up to me and just said, Hey,you know, kind of, we're at the bar
afterwards, which, you know, is kind ofstatus quo for the end of a trade show.
And they came up to me and said, Hey,are you interested in coming over to BPI?
And I was like, what's BPI very naturally.
And so they told me a little bit about it.
And we, we talked you know, Iwent down there and saw them.
(06:31):
And at that time it was really just CBA.
Which is a great, you know, kind ofmuzzleloading company single shot rifles.
They do accessories and, andmuzzleloading bullets and stuff like that.
And so, I mean, very honestly, rightat first, I'm like, I don't know
the first thing about muzzleloading.
I've never shot a muzzleloader in my life.
(06:51):
Right.
Why are you interested in me?
And so I, you know, likeanything in this industry, I
guess, but that's how it starts.
And I went down there and we hung outfor a weekend and shot muzzleloader.
So I got to do that.
And I just fell in love with the peoplein the culture and it just was, it was
kind of one of those times where I lovedwhat I did before, but it was just a very
(07:13):
natural time to move on to the next thing.
For no other reason than that.
What's that?
Shaylene (07:19):
What year was that?
Ben (07:21):
That was 2011.
Shaylene (07:22):
Okay.
Okay.
That's right.
Ben (07:24):
Yeah.
Spring of spring of 2011.
So I hired on with BPI.
And so we at that point we had,like I said, CBA and we had a
small little barrel company atthe time called Bergara Barrels.
That we were, you know, we were workingto do OEM business and we were working
with a lot of other great manufacturersin the industry, making barrels for them.
(07:44):
And the one thing we could do is makea really, really fantastic barrel.
And so we had something there and weworked on that and the CVA side and grew
that a bunch from 2011 to about 2013.
And then we started, wecame up with this concept.
We were like, what if we turn thisbarrel company into a rifle company?
And, and so we went out and we kind of,we pulled the thread on that a little bit.
(08:08):
We, we decided to, you know, lookand see what that would look like.
Well, could we do it?
And everything that we made was, well,not everything, but the majority of
it was made in, in Northern Spain, inthe Basque region of Spain from our,
our parrot company that's based there.
We got with them and they're like,what do you guys think about this?
And, you know, of course they, youknow, they see the opportunity and
(08:28):
where the industry was at the time.
And it was just perfectly timed.
I mean, like.
I kid you not, it was just provenance.
Like it, it was, you couldn'thave picked a better time to
Shaylene (08:39):
say you're so talented about helping drive this whole new brand.
You're not good at bragging at all.
It really did start with nothing.
Right.
The
Ben (08:52):
bear, the barrel side of it.
And so, yeah, we got together andwe said, let's make a rifle company.
And slowly, but surely,you know, come 2015.
We brought out Bergara rifles and,and that was, I gotta be honest.
That was the most fun I've hadand the scariest times I've
had in my professional career.
(09:14):
And, and I think I shared this withyou when we were talking on the phone,
but there is this aspect of, youknow, you're sitting at a trade show
and, and somebody says, you know, youknow, how many do you want me to buy?
And I'm like, please justbuy one, you know, one today.
And that's our goal.
many as we can.
But it was, you know, to be atzero and to just kind of grow
(09:37):
that with a great team around me.
I couldn't have done it.
There's no way I couldhave done it on my own.
You know that.
I mean, it's
Shaylene (09:43):
not a one.
That's the beauty of everything, right?
There's not a single businessI can think of, including mine.
That is done by one person.
I have people behind the sceneshelping me like with these podcasts
and all kinds of other resources.
And when you have a great team,you can really accomplish a lot.
I mean, when you, when you, when youleft and I don't want to jump that
(10:06):
far ahead yet because it was years.
What were the sales for Bergara?
Like, how exciting was thatto go from zero to what?
Ben (10:15):
Oh, when I left, we were doing a little north of 70 million.
Shaylene (10:19):
Wow.
Ben (10:21):
It's incredible.
I mean, I, I really can't believe it.
And to be a part of that, it's somethingthat I'll hold close to my heart forever.
I mean, what an incredible companyand our, our parent company in Spain.
And the folks in Lawrenceville, Georgia,100%, there's no other way for me to
say it, except like they're family.
(10:42):
And we, you know, we went throughall the good and the bad and the hard
and they're just incredible folks.
And, and at that point, like you saidearlier, I mean, everybody sticks together
and it takes each person, you know, kindof committing to, to what they're doing
and, and what, what the company's goal is.
To really drive that forward.
(11:02):
And I'm so proud of, of whatthat team has done there.
And, and it was, I think, veryunderstandably and naturally when I
made that decision to, to go ahead andleave, it was, gosh, it was like, you
know, moving away to college and sayinggoodbye, saying goodbye to your family.
When you
Shaylene (11:22):
worked there, when you worked there and you were, you
know, obviously closer towardsthe end of getting the leave.
Talk to me about the structure of thiscompany because you are working with a
lot of different parts of the company.
You're no doubt working veryclosely with marketing, right?
And you were, you know,did you guys have an in?
(11:42):
We didn't talk about this ahead oftime, so I don't even know the answers.
Did you have an inside salesteam or did you have reps or did
you have a combination of both?
I mean, how does thatlook in the industry?
Ben (11:53):
So we had, I had a national sales manager that worked with me inside.
We had an in house marketingteam who was great.
And our national salesmanager was awesome.
Just, just thought the world of them.
Now I'm going to be biasedhere because I love reps.
I love our I've worked with,with several rep groups.
One of them in particular, since I cameinto this industry in the early 2000s
(12:17):
and, and worked with them all along.
And so I'm going to be very biased.
I think they're incredible.
I think that they, they are, they goabove and beyond to, to help brands.
Really, I mean, if you think about it.
Really just on a commission basis too.
There's no ownership.
There's no equity.
They're, they're juggling a lot ofdifferent companies and, and, and telling
(12:40):
brand stories for a lot of differentfolks and doing it really, really well.
And so I'm a big, big fan of, ofindependent rep agencies in this industry.
And, and they are, they don't get enoughpraise, but they certainly deserve it.
And they will always get it from me.
Shaylene (12:55):
Yeah, and you know, for anyone who's listening that doesn't
really understand how that works.
There are rep groups in our industryand you probably, you know, most people
probably do know this, but I thinkof them as like tentacles, you know,
they're out there covering the ground,you know, and coming back in and, you
know, You know, circling the wagonsand you guys at the manufacturers are
(13:15):
teaching 'em about the new products.
Here's what our new ideas are, andit's a lot of give and take because
they're giving you feedback onwhat the dealers have to say and
what they need to be successful.
Ben (13:27):
Oh, absolutely.
Yeah.
And they, and, and they're, they maygo in and talk about Briga and CVA
one day, and they're talking about.
Five other brands at the same time.
And it, and that goes fromfishing to archery, to air guns,
to, you know, hunting rifles.
So it's, I mean, they've got a lot of,of information to be able to digest
and, and they're, you know, they're,they're pounding the pavement every day.
(13:49):
They're getting in the truck and they'redriving to all of those locations.
A lot of times on their own dime and andit is just like anybody I mean, that's
a lot of time away from family and andthey really do some incredible things
They they are such a large portion of whowe are as an industry That that really
don't get talked about a whole lot.
Shaylene (14:11):
Yeah, that's true I don't know that on any of my podcasts
we've sat and talked about that.
So you're right.
It isn't Brought up asmuch as it should be.
So that's a great thing to bring up.
Now, when you were at BPI, were youonly over sales or did you interact with
other departments or how did that look?
Ben (14:28):
So kind of CBA, I started as a national sales manager and then
grew into vice president of sales.
And then when Bergara started Imoved into VP of sales for Bergara.
And then we, we kind of shuffledsome folks over on the CBA side.
So I had a counterpart that wejust kind of worked together, but,
but working to grow each one ofthose brands independently and I
(14:49):
did work with sales and marketing.
We worked very hand in handwith a new product development.
I would go to Spain with our, with ournew product team and our engineers.
We'd go over there several times a year.
And it just, I'm the type of guy that, youknow, I love to throw stuff up against the
wall and go, Hey, we know what's going on.
We got a great pulse in the industry.
(15:11):
You know, what kind ofstuff should we chase here?
And so you throw it out there andno knowingly you're, you're going to
reject, you know, 98 percent of it.
And, and you find those littlekind of diamonds in the rough.
And so we'd spend a good bit of timewith marketing, with sales, with
engineering, with new product development,with brand managers, with CEOs and.
All kinds of people like that both,both in Spain and here and, and
(15:34):
try to find those ideas that, thatcould take us to the next level.
Shaylene (15:37):
That's great.
Well, it's a very successful brand.
And I know that the people you worked withat BPI where you were very close to, and
I of course, remember that you reportedto and worked with Nate tread away.
Yeah, I hope your ears are burningNate and Great guy just a great guy
(15:59):
and then nate had a great opportunityAnd jumped over to a manual u.
s manufacturing company here And I was notsurprised to see that at some juncture.
He said hey, I need help andWhat a great what a great.
Special thing to be Askedto follow The guy that you
(16:21):
reported to, to his new company.
That is quite a complimentof what it really
Ben (16:26):
is.
Yeah.
And, and, and a good fit too, I thinkfor both of us, you know, Nate and I,
we did, we did that together at Bergara.
We, we worked super closely at CBA.
When, when he was the president atCBA, I just kind of come on board
and really kind of filled some ofthose roles that That he and Dudley
had had left off in the past and
Shaylene (16:47):
mm-hmm
And,
Ben (16:48):
and I would just describe us as, I mean, the three of us together
were you, I mean, it's that oldsaying of our, our, our strengths
complimented each other and Yeah.
And where, where I may have been a littlebit weaker in one side, one of those guys.
Was super strong and, and wereally created such a strong
group of, of individuals and, andNate moved into that CEO role.
(17:10):
And, and like you said, I wasn't surprisedto see him jump on an opportunity.
Like he did to, to go, gooff and, and invest and buy
into, into PWS and lone wolf.
And it was, I think initially it wasa sad goodbye and, you know, let's
keep in touch and we'll be goodbuddies in the industry and, and.
(17:31):
Honestly, it came, maybe I'm a,I'm a little bit naive here, but it
came as a little bit of a surprisefor him to come ringing on my door.
Yeah.
And but I was grateful for it and yeah.
And it, I, it, it's been a, a good fit.
And, and what, what a great, greatcompany, set of companies really lone wolf
on its side and, and PWS on the other.
(17:51):
What an incredible company.
Shaylene (17:55):
Tell our listeners about what those two companies do, what products
they produce, and share with us.
Because I don't know that I couldaccurately share that well enough.
Ben (18:07):
Sure, and you know, I'm realizing a theme here as I'm talking about this.
I came into P.
A.
W.
S.
also saying, like, I don'tknow anything about this.
Like, you know, C.
B.
A.
with Muzzleloader?
So, obviously there'sa common theme there.
But but the real joy thatI've had and getting to know
who both of those brands are.
P.
W.
S.
Is I'll I'll go go out on a limb andsay there is no better quality, more
(18:35):
accurate rifle on the market in thatgenre of firearms than primary weapons.
I mean, just an unbelievable company.
And I would say that Nate even carriedover a lot of that ethos that we
believed in how we started Bergara.
Accuracy is key.
quality control telling of agenuine and authentic brand story.
(18:56):
I mean, there's nothing could bemore true of those two companies
than, than that in itself.
And I, I remember when we, when Iwent out there for some interviews
and shot some of those firearms,I was like, this is unbelievable.
I mean, they were, It, it was,it was one of those rare moments
where I actually kind of had a wow.
(19:17):
I was like, wow, this is these,like they perform more so than
anything I could have ever imagined.
And, and I think that added packagetogether with, you know, the history
that Nate and I had, plus the teamthat exists over at PWS in Long Wolf.
It was just a logical and, and, andreal understandable connection that
(19:39):
although in much of a differentside of the industry, right?
We went from archery to,to fishing, it feels like,
You know, you go, you go intofrom hunting kind of that hunting
and shooting world or that, youknow, MSR kind of kind of market.
And
Shaylene (19:54):
yeah.
Ben (19:55):
Even though, you know, the, the temperature of the industry
and the, the seasons of it,you, you lose a lot of that.
It's more of kind ofa year round business.
And as you know, and I'msure our listeners do.
When it's good there, there ain't nothingbetter in the industry than, than that.
And it's hot, you know, and so, butwhen it's cold, it, it, it's tough
(20:16):
and you gotta, you gotta reallyscrap for a lot of that stuff.
And it definitely has more of those kindof those spikes and that volatility than,
than I would say the hunting market does,or even, you know, the muzzleloading
market is, is, is very predictable.
Although growing in different ways, butyeah, it's been predictable historically.
Shaylene (20:34):
It is really interesting.
I think people who don't work in ourindustry very long or have just joined
us, they really underestimate how manyniches there are inside our niche.
Yeah, so it's not justthe sporting industry.
It's not modern sporting rifles.
It's not hunting.
(20:55):
It's it's it's all of it and thenthere's inside there's all these
niches and all of those have theirown cycle and their own season.
Ben (21:05):
Absolutely.
Now that's a that's a greatopportunity to say even within PWS.
I mean you look at that and ifyou if you put it out there and
I held it up and showed everybodythat go, well, that's an AR.
And, and looks like it see, youknow, everything points to yes.
And, and it is, but they're built inthe whole company's history is built
(21:26):
around a long stroke piston system,which the AK uses the same thing.
It's built around this very,very reliable, robust system
that makes that firearm operate.
So it's not.
Although it looks like a me too item.
There's actually a ton of, aton of technology put into that.
And a lot of engineering put intothat, that actually makes it a good bit
(21:47):
different now, to your point a secondago, that is even a subset within that
category of MSRs or ARs and most ofthe manufacturer that manufacturers out
there are doing direct impingement orDI guns and a lot of things like that.
Although that is a larger market.
You know, PWS has stayed very faithful.
(22:08):
To kind of in their lane, so to speakof being one of the best long stroke
piston companies on the market.
Shaylene (22:16):
Now for our listeners, what's the website?
Is that website?
It's primary weaponssystems dot com, isn't it?
Ben (22:23):
It's just primary weapons dot com.
Shaylene (22:25):
Primary weapons dot com.
Okay, thank you.
And then now it's lone wolf.
Are they just What are they doing?
What is that company do?
Ben (22:36):
So lone wolf historically was a major parts manufacturer.
Mainly in kind of, yep.
Mainly in, in kind of the Glockcomponents and, and Glock clone stuff.
Back when 80 percent werea big deal, they, they were
a fantastic source for 80%.
And they've done, if you geton the website and look at
(22:56):
it, it's, it's everything.
I mean, it is, it's you know,springs and triggers and all kinds,
I mean, everything that you couldimagine it, it's, it's there.
And I will say, When it comesto kind of a very quiet, strong
company Lone Wolf is one of them.
Not everybody in the world knowsabout them, but it's one of those
(23:18):
where you're like, Oh, yeah,yeah, check out this company.
And then you're like, Oh,I've seen them before.
You, you know yeah, they're very
Shaylene (23:23):
under the radar.
I mean, I don't know if you know this,but I lived 20 minutes from there.
Ben (23:28):
Oh really?
Shaylene (23:29):
Before I moved and I lived in North Idaho, just very close to Lone Wolf.
So
Ben (23:34):
what a pretty area.
Oh my God.
I love going out there.
It's so great.
Shaylene (23:38):
It's really, yeah.
Ben (23:39):
When I, when I hired on, I, I remember going to visit
and meeting the team and.
And honestly, my, one of my firstthoughts was this brand has the most
potential of, of any brand that I'vewalked into in the last little while.
I mean, PWS is great and it's ina different area, but lone wolf.
It is such an incredible brands whenit comes to components and barrels.
(24:02):
And now they're making complete pistols.
So, so we've got I mean, gosh, whenyou look up that the SKUs, I mean,
there's 10, 12, 15 different SKUsor more of, of complete pistols that
are on that kind of Glock 19, Glock17, Glock 19 X, that kind of stuff.
So.
Like anybody in this industry, you know,Glock's done an incredible job and they've
(24:23):
created, I mean, they're like the scotchtape of, of handguns, you know, I mean,
they're, they are the staple brand.
And, and we do what I loveabout what lone wolf has done.
Is they created something that is, itlooks like it, it feels like it, it
is kind of considered a Glock clone.
But on those models, we didactually did a 1911 grip angle.
(24:45):
So when you pick that, when youpick that complete pistol up and you
feel it I love a 1911 personally,I'm, I'm, I'm very biased on that.
It's one of my favorite firearms ever.
And so when I picked that up, I'm like,Oh, this is what we're talking about.
Like it is
Shaylene (24:59):
great.
Yeah, that's what I carry when I walkaround out here in the, you know,
we're out on the reservoir here.
There's plenty of grizzliesand all kinds of other things.
I mean, I probably should be like youguys can carry those big cannons, but
I think I just fall down on my butt.
If I tried to shoot one of those.
Yeah, nothing like a 1911 in your handbecause you know, you got something and
(25:21):
you know, it's not going anywhere else.
Ben (25:23):
Yeah, I
Shaylene (25:24):
you guys are making those now.
Where do you sell your lone wolf products?
Do you buy do can theybuy them from dealers?
Can people buy them online?
What's what are you guys doing with that?
Ben (25:35):
That would be a yes to both.
We do sell online And we've got a greatdealer network, too We've got by group
members all across the country thatthat stock it just at the dealer level
we actually just got set up and we'reselling into Bass Pro and Cabela's at
this point, they'll have frames and slidesand barrels and complete pistols and all
(25:56):
of that stuff here in the next you know,we're honestly this week we're, we're
shipping the, their first shipment out.
So I've, I've worked with thoseguys over there for a long time.
I think the world of them all theway back to the Cabela's days and
the, and the old Bass Pro teambefore they even got together.
And what a, what a great group of people.
And so when I, when I came over here,they, they were one of the first
(26:18):
people that I went and talked to.
And, and they've again, going backto those relationships, you know,
it's, it's some of those just loyalvery friendships, you know, I mean,
it's, it's just, at that point you'redealing with, with, with friends.
And the reality is people dobusiness with people that they
really like to do business with.
There's no truer, youknow, thing than that.
(26:39):
And in our industry.
It thrives on that.
And I've said all along, Imean, I've had reps who were,
were reps with me for a while.
And all of a sudden they're at a buyer at,you know, a major retailer distributor.
It's you just, you know, thoserelationships are meant to keep
going and, and things can get hard.
(27:00):
Competitors can get competitive at times.
And you know, I think at the end of theday though, it's one of those industries
where we can very, very peacefully allget together at a, you know, at a, in a,
in a ballroom, you know, at a party or.
You know a cocktail hour at atrade show in everybody's just
glad to see everyone else.
We're in it for the same reason
Shaylene (27:21):
Yeah, it is.
It is that great now.
Are there any relationships andpartnerships you guys are looking for
as far as Industry or or non industryand I didn't ask you this ahead of time.
I didn't think to do it, but As PWSand lone wolf keeps evolving because I
(27:41):
mean, you know, with you and Nate thereand the good people in North Idaho and
Southern Idaho, you know, this is just arelationship is key is an understatement.
So, you know, I want to work with you.
If I were one of these othermanufacturers, you know, looking for
a partner, OEM, I don't really know.
So I don't want to putwords in your mouth, but.
(28:03):
Are there some partnerships you're lookingto build here to strengthen those brands?
Ben (28:10):
I I would that's always a yes for me Even some that I don't even know about yet
Shaylene (28:16):
Yeah,
Ben (28:17):
but I you know in that specific segment of the business you know
components those are those are bigLego kits for a lot of adults, you know
So you're pulling something off andputting something else on and so it's
important for us to You know You know,holster compatibility you know, slings
and optic mounts and all kinds of stuff.
(28:37):
So we're, we're constantly trying toevolve with, with the industry and, and
where, you know, if, if Magpul bringssomething new out, we want to make
sure it's compatible with our stuff.
If a men too is bringing outsome of the great products, like
they're bringing out, we were.
Were you trying to utilize those?
Yeah, right.
There you go.
We're trying to utilize thoseand make sure they're compatible
(28:57):
with, with our products.
And so I would say that's, that's alwaysevolving and trying to, to, to grow.
We just had, we realizedwe had like a small cut.
These are some of the old, old modelson one of our lone wolf slides that
just had a little trouble lockingup in one specific holster at that.
And so we shifted how we did thaton future models in, in that,
(29:21):
that made all the difference.
And so it's just, it's justtrying to keep up with, with that
compatibility, but you, you know, aswell as I do, I mean, with the amount
of, new caliber introductions and
Shaylene (29:33):
all
Ben (29:33):
the innovation coming into our business.
And there's, it's a, it's a constantjuggling of, of meeting new people
and making sure that it works.
Shaylene (29:43):
Yeah, forget sleeping.
You have to keep up onwho's releasing what.
Ben (29:47):
Yeah.
Well, I really, and some exampleswould be, you know, eight, six blackout
hornet's bringing out that 3 38 arc.
I mean, it, it's like, oh my gosh,like we've gotta react to this.
And, and some of it at times canbe really hard to, to build around.
Yeah.
And, and, and it's, youknow, our engineers are.
Talking to their engineers and tryingto figure out how to, what do we
need to do with the barrel here?
(30:07):
And what do we need to do with,you know, it's just a mix of, of
all kinds of different things,but that, that's our job.
And even when I was with Bergara, I mean,same thing, centerfire hunting calibers
come out and you better be ready to do itbecause that's what they're going to want.
Shaylene (30:22):
Yeah, and that's, I mean, it's not a boring industry to be in.
People may step back and saynothing changes, but it does change.
And look at these newcalibers, for example.
There's all kinds of ways that allthese companies are trying to innovate.
And when you're supplying parts andyou're making products that are,
you know as reliable and excellentquality is what you guys are.
(30:44):
There's constantly tweaking andchanging and updating to keep up.
Ben (30:48):
It's
Shaylene (30:48):
a lot.
Ben (30:49):
Yeah, it, it's a, I feel bad for our engineering team and I, and I'm so
appreciative of them at the same time.
Like I said, about reps, they are the onesin the background who make it all happen.
And most of the time they're not evensitting there at all the buying group
shows and, you know, they aren't shachousually, but A lot of these shows people
are like great job and and those arethe the people that should get the pat
(31:12):
on the back You know, not not me theywere the ones who did all of the work.
Shaylene (31:17):
It takes a lot of people to make this stuff work Well, I really
appreciate you being on the podcast ben.
Thank you I do think you have a reallyinteresting background and now here you
are The president of these two companiesand I have no doubt your career will
continue to grow You But if you, youknow, if anyone's listening to this, you
should reach out to Ben will no doubtinclude his LinkedIn profile somewhere.
(31:42):
So you can reach him that way and checkout PWS and lone wolf and their products.
And thank you again, Ben, verymuch for taking the time to share
with us about all of the thingsyou've done in this great industry.
It's a, it's a blessing to know you.
And thank you for being on the podcast.
Ben (31:58):
Thank you, Shaylene.
I feel the same.
I'm so grateful for the opportunity.
Thanks for having me.
Shaylene (32:04):
And that's it for this episode of the HeadHunters NW podcast.
We'll be talking to you again next week.
Thanks.
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