March 25, 2025 • 29 mins
Welcome to HeadHunters NW Podcast! I'm Shaylene Keiner, an executive recruiter with a passion for the global defense, small arms and shooting sectors. Join me as I sit down with top executives and industry leaders to dive deep into the world of global manufacturing, service companies, non-profits and more. Together, we explore the latest trends, innovations, and the inspiring stories behind the people who drive this dynamic industry forward. Whether you're a seasoned pro or just curious about what makes this world tick, you're in for engaging conversations that go beyond the surface. Let's uncover the fascinating stories and insights that shape the global defense, small arms and shooting sectors. Subscribe now and become a part of our community!
In this episode, Shaylene sits down with Roy Hill from Swanson Russell. The discussion covers Roy's unconventional journey into the gun industry, starting as a college English instructor and evolving into roles in professional journalism, copywriting, and marketing. They delve into his extensive career at Brownell, his transition to senior PR counsel at Swanson Russell, and his dedicated work with the Special Operations Wounded Warriors (SOWW) charity. Filled with anecdotes, insights on career navigation, and humor, this podcast is a must-listen for anyone interested in careers and personal growth in the outdoor and firearms industries.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Shaylene (00:01):
Okay.
Hi, everybody.
This is Shaylene Keinerwith HeadHunters NW.
And right before I hit record on thispodcast, we're sitting here laughing and
I'm thinking, Oh my gosh, I'm never goingto get through this podcast with Roy
without just Probably getting a Kleenexout and dabbing my eyes laughing because
Every time I see Roy, it makes me smile.
(00:23):
So Welcome Roy Hill to the podcast.
What a very specialtreat Really to have you.
Thank you
Roy (00:31):
And thank you so much for having me on.
And, and on the one hand, that'skind of performance pressure because
now I got to try to make you laughand maybe even cry a little bit.
But on the other hand, I hope, Ihope we can get through it without
too much agony and distress.
Shaylene (00:44):
Well, we will, we will for sure.
And I, so we talked about a few things.
I want to make sure that even though we'renot going to cover Swanson Russell right
at the beginning, I would like you to tellpeople a little, make sure you tell them
what you do there when we get to that.
And let's talk a little bit abouthow you got into the industry because
(01:06):
I do want to cover SOWW as well.
Roy (01:08):
Okay.
Okay, cool.
Yeah.
I've been in the gun industry or,or gun industry adjacent since 2012.
I have kind of a weird backstory.
In fact, the joke I tell a lot is,well, doesn't everybody get into the
gun industry by going and being acollege English instructor for 18.
Shaylene (01:25):
Yeah.
Roy (01:27):
So I
Shaylene (01:28):
usually the path I hear about
Roy (01:30):
usually and mine's not so much as a career path as it kind
of does this right because I'vebeen a professional journalist.
I've been a college faculty member.
I was a volunteer college rifle coachfor a while I've done some some some
weird non standard things, but I wasable to get into the gun industry by
(01:51):
Getting hired at Brownells in 2012.
And I was originally hiredto be a copywriter for their
famous big book catalog,
Shaylene (01:59):
but, oh my gosh,
Roy (02:00):
yes, yes.
So I know
Shaylene (02:01):
that,
Roy (02:02):
oh yes, I was originally, my original job at Brownells was I was
hired because of my writing background.
And of course that included teachingpeople how to write for about 18 years.
I thought it was okay at it.
And I have gotten paid to writeby various outlets in the past,
but if there is a constant thread.
of my career path.
(02:23):
It's I've always tried to understandwho I am and what I'm good at and then
try to find jobs or careers that somehowaligned with that and also also aligned
with with deep seated core values.
That I hold very, very dear in my heart.
I, I guess one of the things you couldsay is I've had a first amendment
(02:45):
career and now I'm in the midst ofmy second amendment career and maybe
in a couple of decades or so, whenI need a retirement job, I'll get,
you know, I'll get a third amendmentcareer and help people prevent soldiers
from being quartered in their houses.
So,
Shaylene (02:58):
well, I think that's a great goal to achieve too.
I do think what you said though, aboutthe way you've gone about your career.
I wish I could hear more people say that.
And I wish people would slow downand identify who they are, what makes
them happy at their core and whatthey're naturally good at, you know,
(03:20):
it's kind of like your beautiful hair.
Oh,
It's like a hairdresser says, stoptrying to make your hair do this.
Women do this all the time.
Thin hair.
And they say, Oh, I wantthis huge head of hair.
Like, you know, Farrah Fawcett backin the day, they can't make it happen.
And I think careers are the same way.
(03:42):
And you're the first person.
I'm, just sure of it.
You're the first person i'veever heard say that and Self
identify and be aware of that.
I think that's so important
Roy (03:53):
right, and I I tried to be aware of that at a fairly young age.
I had a the fortunate experienceof going to Way back when in the
in the misty time period aroundthe Pleistocene era, it feels like.
But I actually went to a summer thingin Arkansas for high school students
called Arkansas Governor's School.
And one of the things that we wereexposed to at the time was the
(04:14):
Myers Briggs personality assessment.
And now I know that there's beensome controversy in the last
several years about how accurateit is or if it's even valid.
And I've since taken others.
But that having that experienceof filling out a diagnostic
thing to find out Well, who am I?
What?
What?
What do I like?
What's my style?
That's really helped guide me.
(04:35):
Not necessarily what myMyers Briggs score was.
But for example, in when I was anundergraduate in college at the University
of Arkansas, I did maybe Five or sixmajor changes in my first year and a half.
And then I, I, I wound up traveling downthe dark twisted road to perdition called
(04:56):
majoring in English, because I realizedthat out of all the classes I took, I
enjoyed my English classes the best.
Shaylene (05:05):
I think it's great.
You weren't afraid tosay this isn't working.
Make a change.
Yeah.
Let's just stop being locked into things.
That's crazy.
Roy (05:13):
Right, right.
I mean, for example, I probably couldhave made a lot more money had I had
I say gone into engineering or becomean accountant major, but me and math.
I mean, I know better than that.
I mean, I like to joke in college.
I took math for poets and lovers.
I, I don't even know what calculus is.
I know it exists, but I have no idea.
(05:33):
So, and again, I'm not disparaginganybody who's who's an engineer
or an account or or, or, you know,Very hardcore science type person.
I just knew that.
For my personal style and the thingsI was interested in the way my mind
worked, those, I could, I could, I couldspeak those, but I was never going to be
really, really fluent and great at those.
Shaylene (05:56):
Well, you're a creative.
I mean, everything you've touched hasbeen creative, which is good because
you have to be true to who you areto be successful in your career.
You just can't, you can'tkeep trying to swim up water.
It doesn't, it is, it may work, butit's going to be painful as hell.
Roy (06:12):
Right, right.
And and then also, and like you said,some people get an image in their
mind of what they think they shouldbe or which direction they should go.
And they try so hard.
I mean, one of the things I'd always sayin my in my composition class is trying
to help students figure that out forthemselves and say, you know, I could have
had the dream of being an NBA point guard.
(06:35):
Yeah.
And I could have spent it.
Hundreds of thousands ofdollars on coaches and camps and
worked on my three point shot.
Now that doesn't mean my three pointshot or my ball handling would not
have gotten better, but I was nevergoing to be an NBA point guard, but
that didn't mean I couldn't get better.
You have the height
Shaylene (06:53):
for it.
You have the height for it.
I've got the height for it,
Roy (06:55):
but yeah, I've got, I don't have the knees for it.
And I've got the wrong body style.
I was, I was built more for,built more for like hunting
woolly mammoths on the steps.
Shaylene (07:06):
Well, I think that's great that you knew that.
So let's talk a little bit more aboutyour career before we move into SOWW.
So you went from, what didyou do at Brownells for them?
What are the, I bet you dida couple things for them.
Roy (07:20):
I wound up wearing a lot of different hats.
I was originally hired to be a copywriter.
For the the big book the catalog andthen that that that bled over into things
brownells used to put out a monthlynewsletter called the web bench I wound
up writing a lot of stuff for that Then Iwas also doing things like writing video
scripts I don't know if you You've beenin the industry probably long enough.
(07:42):
You've probably heard thename Larry Weeks before.
Oh,
Shaylene (07:44):
yes.
Roy (07:45):
Yeah.
Larry was was a longtimerock star at Brownells.
I think he'd had a 37 year careerthere and he was, he was Mr. PR, Mr.
Industry relations, Mr. Everythingof that nature at Brownells for.
decades, and it just worked out that theypicked me to be the replacement Larry
when it came time for Larry to retire.
So for the first few years at SHOT Show,people would ask, Well, who are you again?
(08:08):
And I would put myself intocontext and saying, Well, I'm
the taller, more hairy Larry.
Oh, I know exactly who you are.
Yeah,
Shaylene (08:17):
they knew what you were supposed to be doing.
Roy (08:19):
Right.
And then, and then that morphedinto my next official job title.
There was a PR and media specialist.
So I was, I was workinga lot with endemic.
Gun industry media.
I also was, was very involved whenBrownells aside, they wanted to work with
social media content creators startedoff mostly youtubers and then branched
(08:40):
out into instagrammers, tiktokers,anybody doing anything interesting
that was either focused on firearms orthat was gun adjacent and gun friendly.
And then my last title at Brownells, Iwas senior Brand communications manager,
and I was still doing many of the thingsI've been doing for years, but at a
much higher level with a little bitmore of a strategic component added it.
Shaylene (09:00):
Yeah, what a blast.
Well, you know,
Roy (09:03):
it was a heck of a ride.
Yes,
Shaylene (09:04):
but that's how people should be.
They shouldn't get so hung up on.
I was hired for this.
Really?
People need to stop taking themselves soseriously in my recruiting https: otter.
ai In my job, I do everything, right?
I don't get to say I'm the boss.
No, I still actually balancemy own books and do everything,
Roy (09:25):
right?
And that's
Shaylene (09:26):
what I chose.
But I think when people get hired atcompanies, They make the mistake of
thinking, this is what I got hired for.
This is what I'm going to do.
And I think it hurts their careerbecause look at what you've done.
You've learned something along the way.
Every time, even though you wereprofessional when you got there, now
(09:46):
you have more tools in your tool bag,
Roy (09:49):
right?
And that's, that's one of the thingsthat I really enjoy the most about.
Anywhere I'm at is I try to find newthings and try to learn new things
that the lessons aren't alwaysfun, but they're still lessons.
But yeah, one of the things you weretalking about right there for about
10 years, because I was, I was talkingabout my First Amendment advocacy.
(10:10):
I was always, since the ageof eight, I was, I was really.
really a big supporterof the Second Amendment.
So one of the consistent things I'vedone is try to find gun shooting
or hunting related jobs for myself.
And I was actually a concealed carryinstructor in Arkansas for 10 years.
So I was, I was the CEO, the instructor,the safety officer, the, the, the
advertiser, all of that stuff.
(10:32):
And I never, it was never big,you know, that's, that was, that
was my way of making my, I had abad ammo habit that I had to feed.
So that was my way of, of,Supplying my ammo habit.
But for about 10 years, I was, itwas called Possum Pistol Academy.
Shaylene (10:46):
Oh no, it was not.
Roy (10:49):
Oh yes, it was.
I want to make
Shaylene (10:50):
sure people heard that.
It was called Possum Pistol Academy.
Roy (10:54):
Yes.
Oh my
Shaylene (10:55):
gosh, that is priceless.
In Arkansas, no less.
Roy (10:58):
Well, I wanted, I knew I wanted an animal mascot and I was going to go
with Armadillo Pistol, but I just didn'tlike the way that rolled off the tongue.
Yeah.
And then I was just,I'm saying squirrel, no.
Raccoon.
No possum.
Shaylene (11:12):
Perfect.
Roy (11:13):
And it's, I mean, to this day, my, my Instagram handle is possum fatback.
Shaylene (11:17):
Oh my gosh.
Well, people you'll have to follow Roy.
So yes, definitely checkout his Instagram handle.
That's awesome.
When you first sent me youremail your personal email,
we talked about doing this.
I just about fell off my chairbecause It just is so appropriate
having sat across from you andhad lunch and had a few minutes.
(11:39):
It's always the least thing
Roy (11:41):
Coming out of
Shaylene (11:42):
your mouth and i'm like, oh my gosh, that's perfect.
Roy (11:44):
That's awesome.
Thank you Yeah, the short version ofthe story was I was going to do cowboy
action shooting And I wanted an art avery arkansas because of course when
you do cowboy action shooting you haveto have your handle Oh, I didn't know
Shaylene (11:56):
that.
Okay.
Yeah.
Roy (11:57):
We've, if you join single action shooting society, you have to have a
handle and there, everybody wants tobe like the Arkansas kid or the Fort
Smith kid or this kid or that kid.
And I wanted one that would communicatethe word Arkansas, but be unique.
And I was, so I was going to be a guydressed up in overalls and my handle
was going to be possum fat back.
I think
Shaylene (12:14):
that pretty much is representative of the
thought process people have.
It's not fair, but it is true.
Roy (12:21):
I never did cowboy action shooting and I knew I had to recycle that somehow.
So I did.
Shaylene (12:26):
That's great.
Well, I want to talk about SOWW beforewe get into You know, Swanson Russell,
because there's a lot that goes into that.
Tell us what that isthat I keep referring to.
Roy (12:36):
Right.
And tell us
Shaylene (12:37):
all, because I really have only seen your posts, but we
have never really talked about this.
Oh, sure,
Roy (12:43):
sure.
This is the job I do not get paid to do.
This is a heart project of mine.
SOWW is the acronym for SpecialOperations Wounded Warriors.
It's a 501c3 charity headquarteredout of Myrtle Beach, South Carolina.
We're about.
13 or 14 years old.
I think we're chartered to help woundedand injured members of the United
(13:05):
States Special Operations forces.
So we have three main missions.
We do what we call therapeuticoutdoor experiences are mostly
hunting and fishing trips.
We've done other things.
We've even got a women's retreat.
There are women who get assigned towork with special operations units.
So we've We've got a women'sretreat that so far has been out
on a working ranch in Montana.
(13:27):
We just finished up our signature outdoorexperience third week in February.
It's called Take and Bacon.
I've been going to Takeand Bacon since 2016.
It's a feral hog hunt on the borderof South Carolina and North Carolina.
So we do therapeutic outdoor experiences.
We do what is called Operator Resetwhen we bring a collection of operators
together in a residential setting andthey have for a week access to therapy.
(13:50):
therapists, clinicians and expertsto give them whatever help they need.
And then the thing that, that ourmost visible program is our canine
service dog donation program.
We work with a great company outof Canada called Baden canine.
And based on how many donations wecan secure throughout the year, we
can give away a certain number ofhighly trained, amazing service dogs.
Shaylene (14:12):
Wow.
That's really special.
So you didn't mind when I hadGeorge laying down at our lunch.
Roy (14:18):
Absolutely not.
George is I don't know if George
Shaylene (14:21):
would measure up to those highly trained, right?
I tell him all the time whenwe see, you know, other service
dogs, don't even look at them.
They could kick your butt.
Roy (14:31):
Right.
Most That's really
Shaylene (14:32):
special that you do that.
That Do you have any idea of how many,how many service members you're able to
help in a calendar year for, for example?
Roy (14:42):
I didn't look.
It's a bunch.
I mean, it really varies year to year.
Of course, we have all the timepeople signing up for our activities.
And just as a plug, if you go tosowwcharity.com, if you're a veteran of
special operations or you know somebodywho is, you can nominate yourself or
you can nominate somebody, you know,just pick something on the website you
think they would like and nominate them.
(15:05):
That's
Shaylene (15:05):
great.
We'll put that link in withall of this marketing material.
On the podcast wherever wepost this podcast online.
We'll put the link.
Roy (15:14):
Awesome.
Thank you very much.
Shaylene (15:15):
Happy to do it.
That's really great How did youget involved with this group?
Roy (15:21):
Brownells is the biggest sponsor of SOWW and that's because
One of the founders his brotherworked for years at Brownells.
So in 2016 I was fortunate enough becauseof my work in marketing at Brownells to
get invited to go to Taken Bacon And Iwent there And I absolutely fell in love
with the organization and the mission.
And it's kind of weird, andagain, it kind of matches my
(15:44):
other, you know, career path.
I don't have any military experience.
I've never served.
And now I'm for year three on the boardof directors of Special Operations
Wounded Warriors, because I justkept showing up and kept showing up.
And they said, well, we bettergive this Joker something to do.
So they put me on theboard three years ago.
Shaylene (16:00):
That's wonderful.
I mean, it takes alltypes of people to help.
All of us.
And what a what a wonderful giftfor you to give back to people.
And the fact that you weren'ta part of the military, I think
really is even more of a commitment.
That's really special.
Thank you for doing that.
Roy (16:17):
Well, thank you for that.
And it's just, it's just myhonor and privilege to, to,
to give back to those folks.
Some of the people I've gotten to knowover the years, it's just amazing and
astounding their personal stories and thethings they've gone through and the things
they've experienced and taken bacon.
To this day, I just got back from my 10thone, 10th in a row, and it's just about
(16:38):
the best thing I get to do all year long.
Shaylene (16:41):
I am 100 percent sure if I was in a room filled with heroes
like that, I would need a box ofKleenex because I would just weep.
I have trouble controlling myself atSHOT Show because, you know, you're
amongst so many real life heroesthat it's so humbling, I don't even
know how to even verbalize thank you.
Roy (17:00):
Right, right.
It's remarkable.
I felt that many times and just, justsome of the, some of the folks I've met,
some of the things I've seen happen.
It was just, it's just, it'sjust absolutely humbling and
astounding and incredible.
But yeah, that's why Ikeep, I have to go back.
Yeah,
Shaylene (17:15):
that's really great.
Thank you for bringing that up.
And thank you for makingus all aware of that.
We'll definitely put the link in there.
I encourage people to contribute,look it up, see what you can do to
help out You know, there's a lot ofhands out and a lot of things, but
it's tough to say something's moreimportant than supporting our veterans.
It's tough.
(17:36):
Okay, let's talk about Swanson Russell.
I bet they'd like toknow that you work there.
Roy (17:42):
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.
I've been fortunate enough.
I'm in well into my second year there.
I'm with Swanson Russell, which isheadquartered in Lincoln, Nebraska,
and also has offices in Omaha.
What we like to say at Swanson Russellis we're the best agency in America
for brands that work and play outdoors.
So we're a full service marketing agency.
(18:03):
Anything you can imagine.
In the marketing side, Swanson Russellhas experts and experience in doing that.
We're not, we're not, we'renot an enormous company, but
neither are we a small company.
We were way bigger thanlike 20 or 30 people.
And we've got all sorts ofhighly talented individuals.
Very well versed and skilledin all areas of marketing.
(18:24):
I was attracted to there as, as a new jobbecause they've been around since 1962
and they have a deep, rich history ofworking very closely with the hunting,
shooting and fishing industries.
Shaylene (18:39):
Yes, that's right.
They're very well known.
So tell us what you do there.
Roy (18:44):
My, my official title at Swanson Russell is I'm a senior PR counsel.
One of the ways I like to explain thatis I do a lot of the stuff I used to do
at Brownells, and now I just do them fora, for a bunch of different companies.
So I'm heavily involved inany sort of PR activity.
Some of the clients that I'vepersonally worked with since I
started at Swanson Russell some names.
(19:05):
Folks have probably heard of Bushnell,Blackhawk with their tactical gear and
holsters, Gold Tip Arrows, Primos Hunting.
I was the main PR person for those.
I've done some assistant typehelp or fill in help with accounts
like Nosler or Badlands Camo.
When we had Badlands Camo.
And then at Swanson Russellit's called Outdoor Rec.
(19:27):
That's how we classify that internally.
Outdoor Recreation or Outdoor Rec.
A lot of, of Classic legacybrands have been Swanson Russell
clients in the past or currently.
I mean, it's some other names thatfor, for past clients include companies
like Sig, Kimber, Weatherby or Leupold.
(19:47):
We're over on the fishing space.
We do a lot of work with MinnKota, Hummingbird's client.
And then we've also companieslike G. Loomis Rods.
So any company that works orplays outdoors We've got folks
with, with expertise who canreally help with marketing.
Shaylene (20:05):
That's phenomenal.
So just being able to count on onefirm for everything is there's a
point where you really need that.
You know, maybe people think they,you know, they're going to save money
going a little bit here and there, but.
It comes a point where you have somuch activity that you really need
that messaging to remain consistent,and it would be hard to get consistent
(20:26):
messaging with too many fractured areas.
I would think
Roy (20:29):
I agree.
There's there's there's alot of validity to that.
I also know that several of our clients,they hire us for one thing and maybe
somebody else for something else.
So we see both ways.
Shaylene (20:39):
Yeah,
Roy (20:39):
but But yeah Swanson Russell is very, very capable and has
lots of highly talented folks.
For me personally, one of the areasthat I've been learning a lot in is
one of my, my non hunt shoot clients.
I do a lot of work with this site onelandscape supply, which is the country's
biggest supply house for equipmenttools and agronomics for professional
(21:01):
landscapers or other businessesoperating in the green industry space.
Shaylene (21:05):
Very cool.
Well, I, I think anything that you canlearn in a new area because you're, you're
going to take the same skills and you'reeither hungry to learn information and
thirsty for knowledge or you're not.
And it doesn't matter whatthe industry is in my opinion.
Roy (21:22):
Right.
Shaylene (21:23):
You can take that and apply it to anything.
Roy (21:26):
And, and there's, there's a lot of, a lot of overlap I've found, because
I've been working with SiteOne foralmost two years now, because a lot
of the folks in that industry, or whoare, are, are landscape professionals
themselves, on the weekend, they wantto go hunting, shooting, and fishing.
Yeah,
Shaylene (21:41):
that's probably true.
Roy (21:42):
There's, there's already a whole lot of overlap.
For example, I've been to two of them now.
It's called the Equip Expoin Louisville, Kentucky.
It's like the shot show of the landscape.
industry, but it's even actuallyquite a bit bigger than SHOT Show.
It's absolutely enormous.
Yeah.
Shaylene (21:58):
How much fun that's it's all things outdoors and,
and how can you go wrong there?
Roy (22:04):
Right, right.
Shaylene (22:05):
Now, if someone says, I really want to know what PR
people do, or they really wantto be in PR, because everything
you've done kind of surrounds that.
Right.
How would you, how would you tell someone,here's why this is a great career, and
here's what I would do to prepare forthat, or here's how I would network.
Roy (22:24):
Right, right.
At its heart, public relationsis, is the science and art.
And I would say in a lot of cases,a lot more art than science, but
certainly science involved of sendingmessages to key publics, and that's
why it's called public relations.
And there's whenever you're talkingabout an organization's publics
that could include customers,suppliers, vendors shareholders.
(22:48):
If you've got a publicly tradedcompany, it can include the employees.
It can include certain segmentsinside a company or organization.
You can even include like anorganization's or a company's
competitors, but any group of peoplethat you need to send messages to
for whatever various purposes, that'sgoing to be certainly involved in PR.
(23:08):
Some of the, some of the basicskills I would say to focus
on if you wanted to do that.
And again, I'm kind of like the,the, the, Accidental PR practitioner.
Shaylene (23:19):
Yes, but you have skill sets that you say that
help me get there, right?
Roy (23:23):
Right the ability to write Absolutely the ability to write I write all sorts
of different types of communicationspieces the ability to network and meet
different people and and be able tomeet different people wherever they are
in whatever circumstance they are andto be able to communicate effectively
and then the ability to to makeconnections with people because a whole
(23:44):
lot of PR is also making connectionswith folks whether that be thinking
in my case The various media writersor, or pod podcast host example here.
I'm really just a
Shaylene (23:56):
recruiter.
I'm just pretending.
There you
Roy (23:58):
go.
But hey,
Shaylene (24:00):
hey,
Roy (24:00):
claim that podcast host.
I forget
Shaylene (24:03):
about that sometimes.
Yeah.
Roy (24:05):
Yeah.
Or, or whoever it is making connections,networking, and being able to
communicate both written and spoken.
Shaylene (24:13):
And I think How do you feel like the How do people
learn good communication skills?
I'm sure that they can say, I mean,obviously people get degrees in
communication, but when you're outthere in the real public, what would
you say is maybe one or two of themost important things to remember when
you're trying to make connections?
Roy (24:34):
Right.
And this is something that Ialways brought up in my college
camp composition courses I taught.
You can have, The best idea in theworld for a message, but if you
don't package it in a way that itaffects your target audience in the
way you intend them to, you mightas well not have a message at all.
(24:54):
You can, you can have a greatmessage, but if you're not thinking
about audience and purpose.
You're not thinking in a waythat's going to be very effective.
On the other hand, and I'm not goingto necessarily point at any or make fun
of any real world examples, but you canthink of examples of anybody listening
to this podcast can think of examplesof a group or an organization or even
(25:14):
a person, politicians, oh, did I justsay that, who have absolutely nothing
to say But because of the effectivenesswith which they think about audience
and purpose and their ability to reachspecific audiences for specific purposes
are seen as great communicators oramazing orators or amazing writers.
(25:35):
And you can do both.
You can not have either one, or you cando both, and ideally you want to have
both, but I think the most important thingabsolutely develop your skills in writing
and speaking and read as much and studyas much and practice as much as possible,
but I think the real, the real artistry Ithink comes in is always keeping in mind
your audience, who you're trying to reachspecifically, and then your purpose, and
(26:00):
that's why you're trying to reach it.
Shaylene (26:02):
That's good advice.
I'm even going to try to remember that.
I don't know.
It's tough.
I can see where the science comesin because I can't even imagine
how PR people can even come upwith stuff to say some of the time.
Not you guys, but those otherpeople that start with the P. Yeah.
Has there ever been
Roy (26:23):
a
Shaylene (26:24):
time where you made a mistake in a PR role and went, oh, and you couldn't,
you couldn't reach in and take it back.
Roy (26:35):
Certainly those things have happened.
Throughout my career, but the way torecover from that is to understand what
happened figure out how to ameliorateor prevent it in the future, and then
just be authentic and transparent.
Shaylene (26:51):
So how do you you know, I've made some mistakes where I
accidentally didn't, I didn't catchsomeone's spelling name error.
Oh, yeah.
Roy (26:58):
Oh,
Shaylene (27:00):
thank goodness for you guys to tell me my Blessed friends in the
industry, sending me a quick text message.
Hey, Shailene, you spelledso and so's name wrong.
And I, and I wish they wouldhave just said, Hey, idiot,
because that's how I felt.
Right.
Right.
Roy (27:15):
Right.
When he kept saying
Shaylene (27:17):
the wire, you can't undo it.
You know, if it's in the outdoorwires and it's printed, you're done.
Roy (27:23):
It's out there.
But then you've got to belike, use the sports analogy.
You got to be like an NFL defensive backs.
You're going to get burnedfor an 80 yard touchdown.
You got to come back to the next play.
You got to forget that and come rightback or you're going to get burned.
Shaylene (27:36):
You got to just go out.
Roy (27:37):
You just got to keep going.
Shaylene (27:38):
That sucks.
I'm going to have to rememberto look more carefully at that.
Roy (27:41):
Yeah,
Shaylene (27:42):
I can't imagine.
That's a lot of pressure the job.
Oh, yeah.
Roy (27:45):
Oh, yeah.
Yeah, I would have beforeI send a press release
I I read it and then reread it andthen reread it reread it reread it
and then because I've read it so manytimes My brain thinks it knows what's
supposed to be in there So I will seewords that aren't in there or there'll
be a misspelling but my brain seemsso that's why I always If at all
(28:05):
possible, I have somebody else read it
Shaylene (28:07):
Yeah,
Roy (28:08):
because inevitably somebody catches something.
In fact, lots of times I I'm kind ofreluctant to hit send until I found
that one thing I know that's in there.
And then I go, okay, okay, I found it.
I found it.
Shaylene (28:20):
You would think after all these years there would be nothing,
but I, it's inevitable, I suppose.
Wow.
Roy (28:27):
Well, I Oh, you're pieced down.
Sorry about
Shaylene (28:32):
that.
Speaking
Roy (28:34):
of mistake.
You can't
Shaylene (28:37):
have any on this podcast.
We're just all about being real.
Roy (28:40):
Just keep going.
Yep.
Shaylene (28:42):
Well, I really appreciate you taking this time.
And honestly, I think wecould talk for an hour.
Oh,
Roy (28:47):
easy, easy,
Shaylene (28:48):
easily.
And I can't wait to see you again.
You're, you know, easy tonot miss in any environment.
I'm the short person andyou're the tall person.
Right,
Roy (28:58):
right.
I'm, I'm the cause of, of, of localoutbreaks of Sasquatch sighting.
Shaylene (29:03):
I, I just think you're such a gem for our industry.
And I think.
We all need to remember not to takeourselves too seriously and smile and
have fun and you're so approachable.
It's so easy to see why you'reso successful at what you do.
Roy (29:19):
Thank you very much.
You always have
Shaylene (29:20):
a story or a smile or You know anything and I think that's got
to be a very important part of beingsuccessful as a person in communications.
Roy (29:31):
Thank you and I'm very fortunate to get to do what I do.
Shaylene (29:34):
Well, good.
Well, the industry is lucky to haveyou and the landscape industry too.
All right.
So if you want to reach out to Roy Hill,you can find him on LinkedIn for sure.
And at Swanson Russell also, I wouldencourage you to talk to him about
any ideas you have about marketing.
Cause he would be my go to for sure.
(29:55):
We'll put the link in the So you canalso find more information out there.
I really appreciate it, Roy.
Thank you for being on theHeadHunters NW podcast.
And we will talk to youlisteners again soon.
very
Roy (30:08):
much.
Okay.
Hi, everybody.
This is Shaylene Keinerwith HeadHunters NW.
And right before I hit record on thispodcast, we're sitting here laughing and
I'm thinking, Oh my gosh, I'm never goingto get through this podcast with Roy
without just Probably getting a Kleenexout and dabbing my eyes laughing because
Every time I see Roy, it makes me smile.
(00:23):
So Welcome Roy Hill to the podcast.
What a very specialtreat Really to have you.
Thank you
Roy (00:31):
And thank you so much for having me on.
And, and on the one hand, that'skind of performance pressure because
now I got to try to make you laughand maybe even cry a little bit.
But on the other hand, I hope, Ihope we can get through it without
too much agony and distress.
Shaylene (00:44):
Well, we will, we will for sure.
And I, so we talked about a few things.
I want to make sure that even though we'renot going to cover Swanson Russell right
at the beginning, I would like you to tellpeople a little, make sure you tell them
what you do there when we get to that.
And let's talk a little bit abouthow you got into the industry because
(01:06):
I do want to cover SOWW as well.
Roy (01:08):
Okay.
Okay, cool.
Yeah.
I've been in the gun industry or,or gun industry adjacent since 2012.
I have kind of a weird backstory.
In fact, the joke I tell a lot is,well, doesn't everybody get into the
gun industry by going and being acollege English instructor for 18.
Shaylene (01:25):
Yeah.
Roy (01:27):
So I
Shaylene (01:28):
usually the path I hear about
Roy (01:30):
usually and mine's not so much as a career path as it kind
of does this right because I'vebeen a professional journalist.
I've been a college faculty member.
I was a volunteer college rifle coachfor a while I've done some some some
weird non standard things, but I wasable to get into the gun industry by
(01:51):
Getting hired at Brownells in 2012.
And I was originally hiredto be a copywriter for their
famous big book catalog,
Shaylene (01:59):
but, oh my gosh,
Roy (02:00):
yes, yes.
So I know
Shaylene (02:01):
that,
Roy (02:02):
oh yes, I was originally, my original job at Brownells was I was
hired because of my writing background.
And of course that included teachingpeople how to write for about 18 years.
I thought it was okay at it.
And I have gotten paid to writeby various outlets in the past,
but if there is a constant thread.
of my career path.
(02:23):
It's I've always tried to understandwho I am and what I'm good at and then
try to find jobs or careers that somehowaligned with that and also also aligned
with with deep seated core values.
That I hold very, very dear in my heart.
I, I guess one of the things you couldsay is I've had a first amendment
(02:45):
career and now I'm in the midst ofmy second amendment career and maybe
in a couple of decades or so, whenI need a retirement job, I'll get,
you know, I'll get a third amendmentcareer and help people prevent soldiers
from being quartered in their houses.
So,
Shaylene (02:58):
well, I think that's a great goal to achieve too.
I do think what you said though, aboutthe way you've gone about your career.
I wish I could hear more people say that.
And I wish people would slow downand identify who they are, what makes
them happy at their core and whatthey're naturally good at, you know,
(03:20):
it's kind of like your beautiful hair.
Oh,
It's like a hairdresser says, stoptrying to make your hair do this.
Women do this all the time.
Thin hair.
And they say, Oh, I wantthis huge head of hair.
Like, you know, Farrah Fawcett backin the day, they can't make it happen.
And I think careers are the same way.
(03:42):
And you're the first person.
I'm, just sure of it.
You're the first person i'veever heard say that and Self
identify and be aware of that.
I think that's so important
Roy (03:53):
right, and I I tried to be aware of that at a fairly young age.
I had a the fortunate experienceof going to Way back when in the
in the misty time period aroundthe Pleistocene era, it feels like.
But I actually went to a summer thingin Arkansas for high school students
called Arkansas Governor's School.
And one of the things that we wereexposed to at the time was the
(04:14):
Myers Briggs personality assessment.
And now I know that there's beensome controversy in the last
several years about how accurateit is or if it's even valid.
And I've since taken others.
But that having that experienceof filling out a diagnostic
thing to find out Well, who am I?
What?
What?
What do I like?
What's my style?
That's really helped guide me.
(04:35):
Not necessarily what myMyers Briggs score was.
But for example, in when I was anundergraduate in college at the University
of Arkansas, I did maybe Five or sixmajor changes in my first year and a half.
And then I, I, I wound up traveling downthe dark twisted road to perdition called
(04:56):
majoring in English, because I realizedthat out of all the classes I took, I
enjoyed my English classes the best.
Shaylene (05:05):
I think it's great.
You weren't afraid tosay this isn't working.
Make a change.
Yeah.
Let's just stop being locked into things.
That's crazy.
Roy (05:13):
Right, right.
I mean, for example, I probably couldhave made a lot more money had I had
I say gone into engineering or becomean accountant major, but me and math.
I mean, I know better than that.
I mean, I like to joke in college.
I took math for poets and lovers.
I, I don't even know what calculus is.
I know it exists, but I have no idea.
(05:33):
So, and again, I'm not disparaginganybody who's who's an engineer
or an account or or, or, you know,Very hardcore science type person.
I just knew that.
For my personal style and the thingsI was interested in the way my mind
worked, those, I could, I could, I couldspeak those, but I was never going to be
really, really fluent and great at those.
Shaylene (05:56):
Well, you're a creative.
I mean, everything you've touched hasbeen creative, which is good because
you have to be true to who you areto be successful in your career.
You just can't, you can'tkeep trying to swim up water.
It doesn't, it is, it may work, butit's going to be painful as hell.
Roy (06:12):
Right, right.
And and then also, and like you said,some people get an image in their
mind of what they think they shouldbe or which direction they should go.
And they try so hard.
I mean, one of the things I'd always sayin my in my composition class is trying
to help students figure that out forthemselves and say, you know, I could have
had the dream of being an NBA point guard.
(06:35):
Yeah.
And I could have spent it.
Hundreds of thousands ofdollars on coaches and camps and
worked on my three point shot.
Now that doesn't mean my three pointshot or my ball handling would not
have gotten better, but I was nevergoing to be an NBA point guard, but
that didn't mean I couldn't get better.
You have the height
Shaylene (06:53):
for it.
You have the height for it.
I've got the height for it,
Roy (06:55):
but yeah, I've got, I don't have the knees for it.
And I've got the wrong body style.
I was, I was built more for,built more for like hunting
woolly mammoths on the steps.
Shaylene (07:06):
Well, I think that's great that you knew that.
So let's talk a little bit more aboutyour career before we move into SOWW.
So you went from, what didyou do at Brownells for them?
What are the, I bet you dida couple things for them.
Roy (07:20):
I wound up wearing a lot of different hats.
I was originally hired to be a copywriter.
For the the big book the catalog andthen that that that bled over into things
brownells used to put out a monthlynewsletter called the web bench I wound
up writing a lot of stuff for that Then Iwas also doing things like writing video
scripts I don't know if you You've beenin the industry probably long enough.
(07:42):
You've probably heard thename Larry Weeks before.
Oh,
Shaylene (07:44):
yes.
Roy (07:45):
Yeah.
Larry was was a longtimerock star at Brownells.
I think he'd had a 37 year careerthere and he was, he was Mr. PR, Mr.
Industry relations, Mr. Everythingof that nature at Brownells for.
decades, and it just worked out that theypicked me to be the replacement Larry
when it came time for Larry to retire.
So for the first few years at SHOT Show,people would ask, Well, who are you again?
(08:08):
And I would put myself intocontext and saying, Well, I'm
the taller, more hairy Larry.
Oh, I know exactly who you are.
Yeah,
Shaylene (08:17):
they knew what you were supposed to be doing.
Roy (08:19):
Right.
And then, and then that morphedinto my next official job title.
There was a PR and media specialist.
So I was, I was workinga lot with endemic.
Gun industry media.
I also was, was very involved whenBrownells aside, they wanted to work with
social media content creators startedoff mostly youtubers and then branched
(08:40):
out into instagrammers, tiktokers,anybody doing anything interesting
that was either focused on firearms orthat was gun adjacent and gun friendly.
And then my last title at Brownells, Iwas senior Brand communications manager,
and I was still doing many of the thingsI've been doing for years, but at a
much higher level with a little bitmore of a strategic component added it.
Shaylene (09:00):
Yeah, what a blast.
Well, you know,
Roy (09:03):
it was a heck of a ride.
Yes,
Shaylene (09:04):
but that's how people should be.
They shouldn't get so hung up on.
I was hired for this.
Really?
People need to stop taking themselves soseriously in my recruiting https: otter.
ai In my job, I do everything, right?
I don't get to say I'm the boss.
No, I still actually balancemy own books and do everything,
Roy (09:25):
right?
And that's
Shaylene (09:26):
what I chose.
But I think when people get hired atcompanies, They make the mistake of
thinking, this is what I got hired for.
This is what I'm going to do.
And I think it hurts their careerbecause look at what you've done.
You've learned something along the way.
Every time, even though you wereprofessional when you got there, now
(09:46):
you have more tools in your tool bag,
Roy (09:49):
right?
And that's, that's one of the thingsthat I really enjoy the most about.
Anywhere I'm at is I try to find newthings and try to learn new things
that the lessons aren't alwaysfun, but they're still lessons.
But yeah, one of the things you weretalking about right there for about
10 years, because I was, I was talkingabout my First Amendment advocacy.
(10:10):
I was always, since the ageof eight, I was, I was really.
really a big supporterof the Second Amendment.
So one of the consistent things I'vedone is try to find gun shooting
or hunting related jobs for myself.
And I was actually a concealed carryinstructor in Arkansas for 10 years.
So I was, I was the CEO, the instructor,the safety officer, the, the, the
advertiser, all of that stuff.
(10:32):
And I never, it was never big,you know, that's, that was, that
was my way of making my, I had abad ammo habit that I had to feed.
So that was my way of, of,Supplying my ammo habit.
But for about 10 years, I was, itwas called Possum Pistol Academy.
Shaylene (10:46):
Oh no, it was not.
Roy (10:49):
Oh yes, it was.
I want to make
Shaylene (10:50):
sure people heard that.
It was called Possum Pistol Academy.
Roy (10:54):
Yes.
Oh my
Shaylene (10:55):
gosh, that is priceless.
In Arkansas, no less.
Roy (10:58):
Well, I wanted, I knew I wanted an animal mascot and I was going to go
with Armadillo Pistol, but I just didn'tlike the way that rolled off the tongue.
Yeah.
And then I was just,I'm saying squirrel, no.
Raccoon.
No possum.
Shaylene (11:12):
Perfect.
Roy (11:13):
And it's, I mean, to this day, my, my Instagram handle is possum fatback.
Shaylene (11:17):
Oh my gosh.
Well, people you'll have to follow Roy.
So yes, definitely checkout his Instagram handle.
That's awesome.
When you first sent me youremail your personal email,
we talked about doing this.
I just about fell off my chairbecause It just is so appropriate
having sat across from you andhad lunch and had a few minutes.
(11:39):
It's always the least thing
Roy (11:41):
Coming out of
Shaylene (11:42):
your mouth and i'm like, oh my gosh, that's perfect.
Roy (11:44):
That's awesome.
Thank you Yeah, the short version ofthe story was I was going to do cowboy
action shooting And I wanted an art avery arkansas because of course when
you do cowboy action shooting you haveto have your handle Oh, I didn't know
Shaylene (11:56):
that.
Okay.
Yeah.
Roy (11:57):
We've, if you join single action shooting society, you have to have a
handle and there, everybody wants tobe like the Arkansas kid or the Fort
Smith kid or this kid or that kid.
And I wanted one that would communicatethe word Arkansas, but be unique.
And I was, so I was going to be a guydressed up in overalls and my handle
was going to be possum fat back.
I think
Shaylene (12:14):
that pretty much is representative of the
thought process people have.
It's not fair, but it is true.
Roy (12:21):
I never did cowboy action shooting and I knew I had to recycle that somehow.
So I did.
Shaylene (12:26):
That's great.
Well, I want to talk about SOWW beforewe get into You know, Swanson Russell,
because there's a lot that goes into that.
Tell us what that isthat I keep referring to.
Roy (12:36):
Right.
And tell us
Shaylene (12:37):
all, because I really have only seen your posts, but we
have never really talked about this.
Oh, sure,
Roy (12:43):
sure.
This is the job I do not get paid to do.
This is a heart project of mine.
SOWW is the acronym for SpecialOperations Wounded Warriors.
It's a 501c3 charity headquarteredout of Myrtle Beach, South Carolina.
We're about.
13 or 14 years old.
I think we're chartered to help woundedand injured members of the United
(13:05):
States Special Operations forces.
So we have three main missions.
We do what we call therapeuticoutdoor experiences are mostly
hunting and fishing trips.
We've done other things.
We've even got a women's retreat.
There are women who get assigned towork with special operations units.
So we've We've got a women'sretreat that so far has been out
on a working ranch in Montana.
(13:27):
We just finished up our signature outdoorexperience third week in February.
It's called Take and Bacon.
I've been going to Takeand Bacon since 2016.
It's a feral hog hunt on the borderof South Carolina and North Carolina.
So we do therapeutic outdoor experiences.
We do what is called Operator Resetwhen we bring a collection of operators
together in a residential setting andthey have for a week access to therapy.
(13:50):
therapists, clinicians and expertsto give them whatever help they need.
And then the thing that, that ourmost visible program is our canine
service dog donation program.
We work with a great company outof Canada called Baden canine.
And based on how many donations wecan secure throughout the year, we
can give away a certain number ofhighly trained, amazing service dogs.
Shaylene (14:12):
Wow.
That's really special.
So you didn't mind when I hadGeorge laying down at our lunch.
Roy (14:18):
Absolutely not.
George is I don't know if George
Shaylene (14:21):
would measure up to those highly trained, right?
I tell him all the time whenwe see, you know, other service
dogs, don't even look at them.
They could kick your butt.
Roy (14:31):
Right.
Most That's really
Shaylene (14:32):
special that you do that.
That Do you have any idea of how many,how many service members you're able to
help in a calendar year for, for example?
Roy (14:42):
I didn't look.
It's a bunch.
I mean, it really varies year to year.
Of course, we have all the timepeople signing up for our activities.
And just as a plug, if you go tosowwcharity.com, if you're a veteran of
special operations or you know somebodywho is, you can nominate yourself or
you can nominate somebody, you know,just pick something on the website you
think they would like and nominate them.
(15:05):
That's
Shaylene (15:05):
great.
We'll put that link in withall of this marketing material.
On the podcast wherever wepost this podcast online.
We'll put the link.
Roy (15:14):
Awesome.
Thank you very much.
Shaylene (15:15):
Happy to do it.
That's really great How did youget involved with this group?
Roy (15:21):
Brownells is the biggest sponsor of SOWW and that's because
One of the founders his brotherworked for years at Brownells.
So in 2016 I was fortunate enough becauseof my work in marketing at Brownells to
get invited to go to Taken Bacon And Iwent there And I absolutely fell in love
with the organization and the mission.
And it's kind of weird, andagain, it kind of matches my
(15:44):
other, you know, career path.
I don't have any military experience.
I've never served.
And now I'm for year three on the boardof directors of Special Operations
Wounded Warriors, because I justkept showing up and kept showing up.
And they said, well, we bettergive this Joker something to do.
So they put me on theboard three years ago.
Shaylene (16:00):
That's wonderful.
I mean, it takes alltypes of people to help.
All of us.
And what a what a wonderful giftfor you to give back to people.
And the fact that you weren'ta part of the military, I think
really is even more of a commitment.
That's really special.
Thank you for doing that.
Roy (16:17):
Well, thank you for that.
And it's just, it's just myhonor and privilege to, to,
to give back to those folks.
Some of the people I've gotten to knowover the years, it's just amazing and
astounding their personal stories and thethings they've gone through and the things
they've experienced and taken bacon.
To this day, I just got back from my 10thone, 10th in a row, and it's just about
(16:38):
the best thing I get to do all year long.
Shaylene (16:41):
I am 100 percent sure if I was in a room filled with heroes
like that, I would need a box ofKleenex because I would just weep.
I have trouble controlling myself atSHOT Show because, you know, you're
amongst so many real life heroesthat it's so humbling, I don't even
know how to even verbalize thank you.
Roy (17:00):
Right, right.
It's remarkable.
I felt that many times and just, justsome of the, some of the folks I've met,
some of the things I've seen happen.
It was just, it's just, it'sjust absolutely humbling and
astounding and incredible.
But yeah, that's why Ikeep, I have to go back.
Yeah,
Shaylene (17:15):
that's really great.
Thank you for bringing that up.
And thank you for makingus all aware of that.
We'll definitely put the link in there.
I encourage people to contribute,look it up, see what you can do to
help out You know, there's a lot ofhands out and a lot of things, but
it's tough to say something's moreimportant than supporting our veterans.
It's tough.
(17:36):
Okay, let's talk about Swanson Russell.
I bet they'd like toknow that you work there.
Roy (17:42):
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.
I've been fortunate enough.
I'm in well into my second year there.
I'm with Swanson Russell, which isheadquartered in Lincoln, Nebraska,
and also has offices in Omaha.
What we like to say at Swanson Russellis we're the best agency in America
for brands that work and play outdoors.
So we're a full service marketing agency.
(18:03):
Anything you can imagine.
In the marketing side, Swanson Russellhas experts and experience in doing that.
We're not, we're not, we'renot an enormous company, but
neither are we a small company.
We were way bigger thanlike 20 or 30 people.
And we've got all sorts ofhighly talented individuals.
Very well versed and skilledin all areas of marketing.
(18:24):
I was attracted to there as, as a new jobbecause they've been around since 1962
and they have a deep, rich history ofworking very closely with the hunting,
shooting and fishing industries.
Shaylene (18:39):
Yes, that's right.
They're very well known.
So tell us what you do there.
Roy (18:44):
My, my official title at Swanson Russell is I'm a senior PR counsel.
One of the ways I like to explain thatis I do a lot of the stuff I used to do
at Brownells, and now I just do them fora, for a bunch of different companies.
So I'm heavily involved inany sort of PR activity.
Some of the clients that I'vepersonally worked with since I
started at Swanson Russell some names.
(19:05):
Folks have probably heard of Bushnell,Blackhawk with their tactical gear and
holsters, Gold Tip Arrows, Primos Hunting.
I was the main PR person for those.
I've done some assistant typehelp or fill in help with accounts
like Nosler or Badlands Camo.
When we had Badlands Camo.
And then at Swanson Russellit's called Outdoor Rec.
(19:27):
That's how we classify that internally.
Outdoor Recreation or Outdoor Rec.
A lot of, of Classic legacybrands have been Swanson Russell
clients in the past or currently.
I mean, it's some other names thatfor, for past clients include companies
like Sig, Kimber, Weatherby or Leupold.
(19:47):
We're over on the fishing space.
We do a lot of work with MinnKota, Hummingbird's client.
And then we've also companieslike G. Loomis Rods.
So any company that works orplays outdoors We've got folks
with, with expertise who canreally help with marketing.
Shaylene (20:05):
That's phenomenal.
So just being able to count on onefirm for everything is there's a
point where you really need that.
You know, maybe people think they,you know, they're going to save money
going a little bit here and there, but.
It comes a point where you have somuch activity that you really need
that messaging to remain consistent,and it would be hard to get consistent
(20:26):
messaging with too many fractured areas.
I would think
Roy (20:29):
I agree.
There's there's there's alot of validity to that.
I also know that several of our clients,they hire us for one thing and maybe
somebody else for something else.
So we see both ways.
Shaylene (20:39):
Yeah,
Roy (20:39):
but But yeah Swanson Russell is very, very capable and has
lots of highly talented folks.
For me personally, one of the areasthat I've been learning a lot in is
one of my, my non hunt shoot clients.
I do a lot of work with this site onelandscape supply, which is the country's
biggest supply house for equipmenttools and agronomics for professional
(21:01):
landscapers or other businessesoperating in the green industry space.
Shaylene (21:05):
Very cool.
Well, I, I think anything that you canlearn in a new area because you're, you're
going to take the same skills and you'reeither hungry to learn information and
thirsty for knowledge or you're not.
And it doesn't matter whatthe industry is in my opinion.
Roy (21:22):
Right.
Shaylene (21:23):
You can take that and apply it to anything.
Roy (21:26):
And, and there's, there's a lot of, a lot of overlap I've found, because
I've been working with SiteOne foralmost two years now, because a lot
of the folks in that industry, or whoare, are, are landscape professionals
themselves, on the weekend, they wantto go hunting, shooting, and fishing.
Yeah,
Shaylene (21:41):
that's probably true.
Roy (21:42):
There's, there's already a whole lot of overlap.
For example, I've been to two of them now.
It's called the Equip Expoin Louisville, Kentucky.
It's like the shot show of the landscape.
industry, but it's even actuallyquite a bit bigger than SHOT Show.
It's absolutely enormous.
Yeah.
Shaylene (21:58):
How much fun that's it's all things outdoors and,
and how can you go wrong there?
Roy (22:04):
Right, right.
Shaylene (22:05):
Now, if someone says, I really want to know what PR
people do, or they really wantto be in PR, because everything
you've done kind of surrounds that.
Right.
How would you, how would you tell someone,here's why this is a great career, and
here's what I would do to prepare forthat, or here's how I would network.
Roy (22:24):
Right, right.
At its heart, public relationsis, is the science and art.
And I would say in a lot of cases,a lot more art than science, but
certainly science involved of sendingmessages to key publics, and that's
why it's called public relations.
And there's whenever you're talkingabout an organization's publics
that could include customers,suppliers, vendors shareholders.
(22:48):
If you've got a publicly tradedcompany, it can include the employees.
It can include certain segmentsinside a company or organization.
You can even include like anorganization's or a company's
competitors, but any group of peoplethat you need to send messages to
for whatever various purposes, that'sgoing to be certainly involved in PR.
(23:08):
Some of the, some of the basicskills I would say to focus
on if you wanted to do that.
And again, I'm kind of like the,the, the, Accidental PR practitioner.
Shaylene (23:19):
Yes, but you have skill sets that you say that
help me get there, right?
Roy (23:23):
Right the ability to write Absolutely the ability to write I write all sorts
of different types of communicationspieces the ability to network and meet
different people and and be able tomeet different people wherever they are
in whatever circumstance they are andto be able to communicate effectively
and then the ability to to makeconnections with people because a whole
(23:44):
lot of PR is also making connectionswith folks whether that be thinking
in my case The various media writersor, or pod podcast host example here.
I'm really just a
Shaylene (23:56):
recruiter.
I'm just pretending.
There you
Roy (23:58):
go.
But hey,
Shaylene (24:00):
hey,
Roy (24:00):
claim that podcast host.
I forget
Shaylene (24:03):
about that sometimes.
Yeah.
Roy (24:05):
Yeah.
Or, or whoever it is making connections,networking, and being able to
communicate both written and spoken.
Shaylene (24:13):
And I think How do you feel like the How do people
learn good communication skills?
I'm sure that they can say, I mean,obviously people get degrees in
communication, but when you're outthere in the real public, what would
you say is maybe one or two of themost important things to remember when
you're trying to make connections?
Roy (24:34):
Right.
And this is something that Ialways brought up in my college
camp composition courses I taught.
You can have, The best idea in theworld for a message, but if you
don't package it in a way that itaffects your target audience in the
way you intend them to, you mightas well not have a message at all.
(24:54):
You can, you can have a greatmessage, but if you're not thinking
about audience and purpose.
You're not thinking in a waythat's going to be very effective.
On the other hand, and I'm not goingto necessarily point at any or make fun
of any real world examples, but you canthink of examples of anybody listening
to this podcast can think of examplesof a group or an organization or even
(25:14):
a person, politicians, oh, did I justsay that, who have absolutely nothing
to say But because of the effectivenesswith which they think about audience
and purpose and their ability to reachspecific audiences for specific purposes
are seen as great communicators oramazing orators or amazing writers.
(25:35):
And you can do both.
You can not have either one, or you cando both, and ideally you want to have
both, but I think the most important thingabsolutely develop your skills in writing
and speaking and read as much and studyas much and practice as much as possible,
but I think the real, the real artistry Ithink comes in is always keeping in mind
your audience, who you're trying to reachspecifically, and then your purpose, and
(26:00):
that's why you're trying to reach it.
Shaylene (26:02):
That's good advice.
I'm even going to try to remember that.
I don't know.
It's tough.
I can see where the science comesin because I can't even imagine
how PR people can even come upwith stuff to say some of the time.
Not you guys, but those otherpeople that start with the P. Yeah.
Has there ever been
Roy (26:23):
a
Shaylene (26:24):
time where you made a mistake in a PR role and went, oh, and you couldn't,
you couldn't reach in and take it back.
Roy (26:35):
Certainly those things have happened.
Throughout my career, but the way torecover from that is to understand what
happened figure out how to ameliorateor prevent it in the future, and then
just be authentic and transparent.
Shaylene (26:51):
So how do you you know, I've made some mistakes where I
accidentally didn't, I didn't catchsomeone's spelling name error.
Oh, yeah.
Roy (26:58):
Oh,
Shaylene (27:00):
thank goodness for you guys to tell me my Blessed friends in the
industry, sending me a quick text message.
Hey, Shailene, you spelledso and so's name wrong.
And I, and I wish they wouldhave just said, Hey, idiot,
because that's how I felt.
Right.
Right.
Roy (27:15):
Right.
When he kept saying
Shaylene (27:17):
the wire, you can't undo it.
You know, if it's in the outdoorwires and it's printed, you're done.
Roy (27:23):
It's out there.
But then you've got to belike, use the sports analogy.
You got to be like an NFL defensive backs.
You're going to get burnedfor an 80 yard touchdown.
You got to come back to the next play.
You got to forget that and come rightback or you're going to get burned.
Shaylene (27:36):
You got to just go out.
Roy (27:37):
You just got to keep going.
Shaylene (27:38):
That sucks.
I'm going to have to rememberto look more carefully at that.
Roy (27:41):
Yeah,
Shaylene (27:42):
I can't imagine.
That's a lot of pressure the job.
Oh, yeah.
Roy (27:45):
Oh, yeah.
Yeah, I would have beforeI send a press release
I I read it and then reread it andthen reread it reread it reread it
and then because I've read it so manytimes My brain thinks it knows what's
supposed to be in there So I will seewords that aren't in there or there'll
be a misspelling but my brain seemsso that's why I always If at all
(28:05):
possible, I have somebody else read it
Shaylene (28:07):
Yeah,
Roy (28:08):
because inevitably somebody catches something.
In fact, lots of times I I'm kind ofreluctant to hit send until I found
that one thing I know that's in there.
And then I go, okay, okay, I found it.
I found it.
Shaylene (28:20):
You would think after all these years there would be nothing,
but I, it's inevitable, I suppose.
Wow.
Roy (28:27):
Well, I Oh, you're pieced down.
Sorry about
Shaylene (28:32):
that.
Speaking
Roy (28:34):
of mistake.
You can't
Shaylene (28:37):
have any on this podcast.
We're just all about being real.
Roy (28:40):
Just keep going.
Yep.
Shaylene (28:42):
Well, I really appreciate you taking this time.
And honestly, I think wecould talk for an hour.
Oh,
Roy (28:47):
easy, easy,
Shaylene (28:48):
easily.
And I can't wait to see you again.
You're, you know, easy tonot miss in any environment.
I'm the short person andyou're the tall person.
Right,
Roy (28:58):
right.
I'm, I'm the cause of, of, of localoutbreaks of Sasquatch sighting.
Shaylene (29:03):
I, I just think you're such a gem for our industry.
And I think.
We all need to remember not to takeourselves too seriously and smile and
have fun and you're so approachable.
It's so easy to see why you'reso successful at what you do.
Roy (29:19):
Thank you very much.
You always have
Shaylene (29:20):
a story or a smile or You know anything and I think that's got
to be a very important part of beingsuccessful as a person in communications.
Roy (29:31):
Thank you and I'm very fortunate to get to do what I do.
Shaylene (29:34):
Well, good.
Well, the industry is lucky to haveyou and the landscape industry too.
All right.
So if you want to reach out to Roy Hill,you can find him on LinkedIn for sure.
And at Swanson Russell also, I wouldencourage you to talk to him about
any ideas you have about marketing.
Cause he would be my go to for sure.
(29:55):
We'll put the link in the So you canalso find more information out there.
I really appreciate it, Roy.
Thank you for being on theHeadHunters NW podcast.
And we will talk to youlisteners again soon.
very
Roy (30:08):
much.
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