May 27, 2025 • 31 mins
Welcome to HeadHunters NW Podcast! I'm Shaylene Keiner, an executive recruiter with a passion for the global defense, small arms and shooting sectors. Join me as I sit down with top executives and industry leaders to dive deep into the world of global manufacturing, service companies, non-profits and more. Together, we explore the latest trends, innovations, and the inspiring stories behind the people who drive this dynamic industry forward. Whether you're a seasoned pro or just curious about what makes this world tick, you're in for engaging conversations that go beyond the surface. Let's uncover the fascinating stories and insights that shape the global defense, small arms and shooting sectors. Subscribe now and become a part of our community!
In this episode of the HeadHunters NW Podcast, we welcome Steve Reed to discuss his extensive career in the firearms and outdoor industry. Steve shares his valuable experiences working with companies like Accu Sport, Daniel Defense, and Bud's Gun Shop. Delving into the complexities of marketing across different sectors, Steve talks about the importance of honest feedback, the evolving landscape of e-commerce, and the significance of networking within the industry. Tune in to learn about effective marketing strategies, the impact of consumer behavior, and the unique challenges faced by manufacturers, distributors, and dealers.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Okay, welcome to anotherpodcast with HeadHunters NW.
I'm Shaylene Kiner.
I am thrilled to have SteveReed here, Steve Reed.
I have had the pleasure of knowing youfor some time and it's such an honor
and I have to say, we didn't talk aboutthis before we got on camera, but.
(00:21):
I want all recruiters to know thatif you do not do what Steve asks
you to do, he will hold you to task.
He has held me to task and I, I'mthrilled, honestly, because who doesn't
wanna work with someone who keeps youhonest and says, yeah, I screwed up.
I screwed that up, Steve.
I'll fix it.
And I gotta tell you, it'sone of the things I appreciate
(00:43):
about you most because.
None of us are perfect and we makemistakes, and I'm so honored you
would be on this podcast with meto share with our audience all
your experience in the industry.
Well, thank you so,honestly, thank you Steve,
and I'm, I'm thrilled to be here.
Thanks for having me.
And yeah, back to that, I remember weworked together on an assignment at
(01:04):
Daniel Defense and, you know, I reallyappreciated what you guys did in terms
of going out and screening candidates.
You sent some videos of them answeringpre-planned questions, you know,
and we had to go through a fewpeople to find the right person.
But the great news through allthat is Jacob Becker, who is now,
you know, driving a lot of the newproduct strategy at Daniel Defense.
He's really thriving there.
(01:24):
I saw him at Shot Showand he's happy as can be.
They relocated from, I think,Illinois to Savannah area, and
he's doing a great job for him.
So.
Thanks to you guys.
He's a good guy and best of luck to him.
Yes.
Well we get, sometimes we have togo through quite a few frogs and it
really is good to work with someonethat gives you honest feedback.
Even if, even if it might not seem like atthe time that it should be well received.
(01:51):
It is well received and.
It.
You need that direct feedback.
And I think that that's really unusualbecause if your hiring manager shouldn't
hesitate to hold that consultantaccountable because really that's
what you're paying them for and.
And that was a kind of a unique position.
It was kind of a newposition for Daniel Defense.
So we were also kind of, youknow, molding it ourselves and
(02:14):
figuring out what we wanted.
And I think through the interview processwith some of the other candidates, we
realized, okay, we need a little bitmore of this, a little less of that.
And we just had to relay that to you.
But all good in the end.
So, and I appreciate allyou're doing for the industry.
See you everywhere on socialmedia and all the shows.
I know you were justlike traveling last week.
You're always on the, on the plane.
And thank you for, for all of that.
(02:36):
Thank you.
I, I appreciate it.
It's because of people like you thathave inspired me and who doesn't
wanna work harder and do a great job.
Right.
Because that's when youreally feel good about it.
But let's talk about your experience,because I want people who are listening.
If you don't know Steve Reed,this is gonna be a really
interesting podcast because hehas worked in a lot of different.
(02:57):
Areas in our industry, not justone dimensional on manufacturing.
And I think your sales and marketingexperience is really valuable because.
You do have such a broad exposure to allof these things, so maybe you could, for
the audience that doesn't know you, maybeyou could kind of touch on how you started
(03:17):
in the industry and where you worked andwhat those industries were made up of.
Right.
Well, so prior to getting into the, thetwo a space, I kind of, after business
school had the traditional kind of.
Packaged goods marketing experience.
I worked for ConAgra Foods wentthrough brand management ranks.
I ultimately worked at apharmaceutical company, Eli Lilly.
So kind of learned classicallytrained marketing from a lot of
(03:39):
really smart people that workedat great companies one day.
And then I did a little did astint at an advertising agency.
Kind of went from the clientside to the agency side.
Kind of found out after two yearsthat wasn't quite for me, wanted
to get back to the client side.
I saw, I was living in central Ohio andjust kind of saw a posting, which is
typically how you don't get a job, right?
And you know that better than anybodyfor some company called Accu Sport.
(04:02):
And I wasn't even sure what theindustry was, but what they were trying
to do sounded really interesting.
So I kind of, you know, floated aresume in Lo and behold, went out and
met with some just really great people.
For those of you who don't know,ACU Sport was at the time one
of the leading shooting sportsdistributors of major wholesaler.
Had a vision of really, you know, focusingon independent brick and mortar retailers,
(04:25):
providing them a lot of value addedservices to help differentiate acus sport.
Was a technology driven,very smart folks at the helm.
Good people I. And I was there,let's see, from 2012 through 2018,
you know, had a great experience.
Led a team of some fabulous folks.
In some cases they were former retailers,dealers that are well known in the
(04:46):
industry, the Hank ics, Doug VanderWoos, Dan Compo, guys that are still
out there now that everybody knows.
And
yeah,
we created a whole suite of servicesto help dealers, everything from how
to market and advertise their store,how to manage their range, how to.
Trained their sales staff.
We got into merchandising,planogramming, you know, just auto
replenishment systems, very data-driven.
(05:07):
And, you know, everythingwas great doing really well.
I think our leadership decided though weneeded to really expand and invest in the
distribution center and put a lot of moneyinto it, right when the Trump slump came.
And lo and behold, we then startedto have, you know, cash flow
issues and unfortunately thecompany had to kind of put itself
up for sale and it is no longer.
But
(05:27):
yeah, it's weird everytime I say that to to
people, yeah.
They kind of say, how could thathave been such a great experience?
You guys didn't make it.
And yes, that's true on level, a greatcompany and everybody I talk to out
in the industry, I go to shop show andsee a bunch of former acus sport people
and we are like, ah, if we'd just beenable to hang in there a bit longer,
I think with the pandemic we would'vereally been really well positioned to,
i, I've done a lot of great things,but, but that was a great experience.
(05:50):
Like I said, got to meettons of dealers and kind of
understand their business model.
Multi-store dealers, small, independentall around the country, many of
whom I consider my friends today.
And so that was, that wasa really good experience.
So then from there I needed a job andI was fortunate enough to have met,
you know, the folks at Daniel Defense.
(06:11):
So Marty Daniel was lookingfor a VP of marketing.
And I was fortunate toget that role in 2018.
You know, and Daniel defense is justsuch an iconic brand and you gotta give
Marty and Cindy Daniel so much credit.
I mean, they've essentially createdthis premium segment of the AR world,
you know, and he did it out of theback of his garage door business.
And lo and behold, it'sturned into this behemoth and.
(06:34):
You know, I've worked on a lotof brands in my day, but there's
some fanatical fans of that brand.
It was just great to be there,really smart people that, you know,
I had the pleasure leading andacross a lot of different areas.
Met a lot of people then and more onthe media side that I didn't get to
meet with Acus Sports, who got a lotto meet more of the influencers and
the media company and the writers.
(06:55):
And, you know, we got into some,launching some new products, so.
You know, again, great,great brand, great company.
You know, Marty eventually decidedto bring in a new CEO Rod reason.
Great guy.
They're doing wonderful things there.
And of course that sometimeshappens is the new CEO brings
in some of his team and Yep.
Myself and a few of the rest of us were,you know, it's, it was kind of time to go.
(07:15):
Yep.
And so that, again, great experience.
We love live down in Savannah,by the way, if anyone.
Wants to get down there.
It's a great place to live.
But then I was fortunate to hearabout this opportunity at Buds.
Yeah, the shop show 2024 got to meetJoe Murphy, who's the sole owner
of Buds and just a wonderful guy.
He's been involved with thebusiness for, I think since 2010.
(07:36):
He now solely owns it.
And you know, Buds is another iconicbrand that is doing a lot of great things
and has done a lot of great things.
So now I'm on that kindof dealer side learning.
Or how, at least for the last14 months have been experiencing
that side of the business.
Well, that's pretty interestingbecause going from a wholesaler
distributor to a manufacturer to nowrepresenting this great company that
(07:59):
helps dealers, talk to me a little bitabout marketing and how has that, how
does each of those industries change?
Because I know the manufacturing side.
They've got their own set ofmarketing rules and then, you
know, or needs, I should say.
And then the distribution, who,you know, who are you marketing to?
(08:19):
And each, each one isdifferent types of customers.
How does that affect what you're doing?
Well, you know, before answeringthat, I think at the end of the day,
marketing is storytelling, you know?
Yeah.
And, and a brand is really, I lookat it as a promise or relationship.
So whether it's B2B, like itreally was with Accu Sport, right?
Yeah.
That was not a consumer facing brand, butwe had to get that brand and even branding
(08:41):
our value added services, somethingwe call Customer Link, create a brand
around that so that the dealers, ourcustomers would, would create awareness
among them and differentiate ourselves.
So that was kind of more of a B2B play.
And more of probably one-to-one selling.
Not a lot of, you know,hardly any mass advertising.
Yeah, we didn't really need to have asocial media presence, but we had to
(09:03):
market those products by visiting people.
Kind of more direct selling, if you will.
Obviously you then transition tosomething like Daniel Defense.
You're now a manufacturer brand.
You're talking to all the constituents.
You're marketing yourself andthe brand to your dealer network,
your distributor network, andultimately the end user consumer.
And it's, you know, in that case,in, in our industry, really what
(09:24):
I've learned is the margin isreally with the manufacturers.
I mean, they take the significantrisks, they make all the capital
investment, and therefore, I thinkthey rightly get most of the margin.
If you look at, you know, the transactionsup and down our, our supply chain.
So there's money to invest,creating awareness, creating
differentiation, stickiness with people.
(09:44):
A lot more vehicles to use to talkto those various constituents.
Then when you kind of segue to thedealer side, you know, for most brick
and mortar dealers you're talkingto, you know, the, your local radius.
Right?
You know, a lot of folks don't realizethat with Buds, they think of Buds as
primarily an online player, and thatis the biggest part of our business.
But we have three brickand mortar locations.
(10:06):
You know, one here in Lexington, Kentucky.
One in Sevierville, Tennessee, kindof, which is the, you know pigeon
Forge area and then Gatlinburg area,and then one in Greenville, Kentucky,
the western side of the state that'sactually branded as Uncle Lee's.
It was an acquisition.
So, you know, as a brick and mortardealer in many cases without an online
presence, you're really marketingto that local audience through local
(10:29):
television, local radio, word of mouth.
You know, a lot of grassroots marketing,getting to know the folks in your
community, putting on community events.
So that's a fun part of this business.
But then we also have this major onlinepresence where we get to kind of market
to the masses all across the country.
So, yeah, I looked online.
It is really impressive and it's, I betthat is quite a lot to keep track of.
(10:52):
I mean.
E-commerce is changing all the time.
How do you, I mean, I can't evenimagine how you lasso that behemoth,
because there's gotta be constantchanges needed all the time and
there's, and monitoring of that.
There's a lot to, to, to monitor for sure.
And, you know, you gotta give BudWells was the original Bud and
back in, you know, he's, he'd hada business, I think he'd been,
(11:14):
they've been around for 50 years.
We've been around as brick and mortar.
But in early two thousands he hadthe foresight to say, you know,
I think we can sell guns online.
Which was really pretty unique.
And novel.
Wow.
Yeah.
And he figured out how to do that.
Hired some smart people and reallyhad that first mover advantage.
So a lot of people still today,when you think of online gun
sales, you think of Buds.
But it's on us, you know,kind of this newer regime.
(11:37):
We're trying to take the brand in newplaces to modernize it, to do new things.
We offer, I think, a loton our website today.
But you're right.
We, we have access to, youknow, a million products.
When you think about all distributorproduct we can get hold of, we've
gotta figure out, you know, what wehave do we have the right quantities?
(11:57):
Are we pricing it correctly?
Are we promoting it correctly?
So there's a lot of data.
We need to serve many masters, right?
All of those manufacturerbrands expect things from us.
Yeah.
But ultimately we serveour consumer, right?
That's the customer we have to serve.
So it it keeps us pretty busykeeping track of all that, for sure.
I.
Now if you're a consumer, then itdoesn't matter where you live, you can
(12:18):
order from Buds and then you can havethat shipped to the FFL that's local.
Correct.
As long, if it's a serializeditem, if it's a, you know,
we do a lot of accessories.
Those we can ship right to yourhome, right directly to you with
the, with the serialized item.
It's gotta go through the FFL, gottado the background checks, et cetera.
So, yeah, more and more folks, Ithink, you know, the data show are
(12:40):
getting comfortable ordering online.
Yeah.
But there's still many who, okay, there'sa little different and we get that.
So, you know, a lot of folks certainlyencourage, go to your local store,
know the sales staff there, try outguns, but there's also ways and things
we're working on to help make ita real seamless online experience.
But, you know, the bar'salways getting raised.
(13:01):
Yeah.
You know, Amazon sets the standarde-commerce and I think people
nowadays, you know, probablyfigure I order a gun on Saturday
night and I get it Sunday morning.
It's quite that way in our space.
Yeah.
But we're certainly working tomake it a really good experience.
How do you keep ahead of allof these changes in marketing?
I mean, we just talked a little bitoffline at the beginning, and I don't
(13:21):
even think you can say, look how muchmarketing's changed in five years.
To me, it's like every sixmonths or every couple months.
I mean, I can't hardly keep up withthe tools that I have available to me.
I. And I think, how can you lookfor that as a larger company?
There's so many choices.
How do you keep up?
What, what do you do with your staff?
(13:42):
How do they keep up?
Yeah, it's, it's a challenge.
I mean, obviously you know, groups likethe NSSF and I know I wasn't able to
attend the marketing summit this week,but I've been in the past and that's
always giving you great information.
You know, one example is social mediaand I, I, I think you may know Chuck
Rossi, who is now with Meta, is a, atwo A fan, and he's been great because
(14:04):
we've been, you know, as, as if youdon't know, we've typically had a lot
of restrictions in social media in termsof kind of directly selling a firearm.
Well, he's, I think, kind ofturning them a little bit in our
favor, and so it's great to havea resource like that that you can.
You know, kind of go to him and go,Hey, do you think this would be okay?
And he's, he's helping us, youknow, get you know, getting better.
(14:24):
That's good on doing social media.
And then things like, youknow, not long ago this whole
affiliate marketing was yes.
You know, a conceptnot too many years ago.
Like, what's that?
And who are those guys?
And who are all these influencersand how do you work with them
and how do you get 'em product?
And, you know, there's a whole worldof folks that they've, you know, these
influencers have done a great jobattracting the consumer eyeball and.
(14:46):
That's where consumers are looking forinformation and that's where brands and
dealers probably need to be in many cases.
So, yeah, you know, that's anotherexample of things constantly changing.
But you know, again, back to it's, yougotta have a brand, you gotta have a
point of difference, you've gotta becustomer centric, understand what you
do well, and you know, do your best tofigure out how you spread that message.
(15:08):
Now in your experience, you've had smallteams and large teams and all different
size teams, I know reporting to you indifferent areas like product development,
like we talked about at your other role,and I'm sure it changes all the time.
How do you find good marketing talent?
And I don't mean referring to me, Imean, what, what is it that you look for?
(15:30):
You know, what are the traits?
Because a lot of people areinterested in marketing and I. From
my perspective, I think marketing is.
The place to be becauseit's changing all the time.
Right.
And we're always gonna need marketing.
It seems like marketingmore so now than ever.
Yeah.
How do you find those people?
What, what skills do you look for?
(15:52):
You know, I, I think you, youneed to have a certain curiosity.
You know, I usually in the interviewprocess ask people to tell me
what are their favorite brands.
Even out, you know, outsideof the two-way space.
And within it, you know, hopefullythey like study brands then.
And then why do you like that?
What does it do that attracts you?
And see if they can articulate that back.
I mean, there's a real,it's art and science, right?
Marketing is, is capturingthe brain and the heart.
(16:14):
And so people that kindof understand that.
Sometimes folks think marketingis just advertising or it's just
creating pretty pictures and, youknow, it's, it, it's more than that.
That's just an aspect of it.
There's a whole data part of it.
And strategic parts.
I think you're looking for peoplewho are pretty, you know, quick on
the uptake and have a curiosity.
I think what's especially interestingin this space is it's, people
(16:35):
are so passionate about this.
You know, and I, I camein from the outside.
I didn't really grow up a gun guy.
You know, I had started to get, youknow, enjoy shotgun, you know, skeet
shooting and done a few things andall of a sudden got into this space.
And I realized, you know, we arepretty good as an industry of
talking specs and twist rates and.
(16:56):
Ballistic coefficient.
We got a lot of guys who can sitaround and get, and women who can
sit around a table and go way deepon stuff and, and it's wonderful.
But you know, there's a lot of folks,especially when you look at what happened
in Covid who are, who are just gettingin or recently got into this space,
they don't know what any of that means.
So yeah, I think the ability to takesome of that technical data, turn it into
(17:17):
simple features, advantage, benefits, totalk to that more novice audience is also.
Something to look for.
Can people kind of break thatdown and simplify things?
Is that interest?
I think that's very important.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Super
important.
Because even though you may go, ohyeah, I mean, like talking to me,
can I understand those numbers?
(17:37):
Some of 'em and some of 'em not.
And, you know, can I, I can figure itout and I know who to ask for help,
but if I didn't have all you guys.
To refer to it would beoverwhelming and intimidating.
And I think that's one of the thingsthat marketing has lent itself to
positively in our industry is I thinkmarketing in our industry is learning
(17:58):
that we need to be more welcoming.
And it's okay if you're a noviceand you should ask for help.
And I think we're seeing that a lot morethan we even did a couple years ago.
Right, right.
And even if you.
If you look at whathappened with Covid, right?
They, but again, SSF says thenumber may be as high as 20 million.
Maybe it's more first time shooters.
You know, I talked to a lot of dealersduring that period that said, you know,
(18:21):
people were just flooding my store andthey didn't even know what they were
buying as all long as it went, bang.
Some portion of those new consumers haveprobably gotten very into the sport and
they already onto their fifth, sixthgun and are at the range all the time.
Another percentage, probably the majority,that gun may never have come out of
the box and still sitting at home.
Yeah.
So.
You know, we need to understand thatand understand those various audiences.
(18:43):
And the other thing we learned doing someresearch that I'm aware of is that, you
know, a lot of the folks that came andbought were, you know, were more on the
right, the left of the political spectrum.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
You know, and they were in places.
They weren't our typical kindof who we're used to talking to.
You know, I remember seeing somedata that some of the new time
handgun owners were still pro AR ban.
(19:05):
So on one hand they'd gone outand bought a handgun 'cause
they felt like they needed it.
But they, the idea of a scaryblack ar I don't like those.
Or they were pro magazine capacity.
Again, I think that'sjust an education issue.
Like,
yeah,
you, I don't think they really,you know, we need to educate them.
But that's all great opportunity for us.
We need to be able to talk to all these,you know, let alone all the different.
(19:27):
You know, ethnic groups, females, youknow, we talked about here, there's
even an older segment of society, right?
Like ranges having, youknow, senior day, you know.
Yeah.
With disposable incomeand time on their hands.
So we need to talk and smaller guns,
so ways you age, you know, youdon't wanna hold that big, heavy 10
millimeter gun, I mean, you know,blow your shoulder off at that point.
(19:48):
Exactly.
Maybe you wanna go to pocket, youknow, maybe there can be some.
Some fun in that for them or youknow, that would be something
they're more comfortable with.
I think, as you know, at Buds,that's gotta be hard to say.
You've got all kinds of firearms,just as many firearms as there
are types of people and there areall these different categories.
(20:10):
How does marketing, how do you,how are you able to wrangle that
and say, oh my gosh, we've got.
You know, action cowboy action shootershere and you know, AR is here and you
know, then you've got the people thatare all about long range shooting and
that's, there's a lot of products.
There's, there's no end of learningopportunity in our industry,
(20:32):
I think, and I don't know howmarketing can manage all that.
Yeah.
You know, the vast majority of the volumethat I think the industry sells is, is.
You know, compact handguns, right?
Yeah.
It's, it's handgunsconcealed carry polymer.
That's the majority of the business.
But you're right, there's huge, youknow, you've seen the, the growth in
lever action over the last couple years.
(20:52):
It's still a pretty small niche, but yeah.
Got really popular and greatbrands like Smith that we out
with lever guns and selling those.
And so there's folks that love that.
The, the precision rifle was a bigdeal, especially a few years ago.
Daniel Defense, we came outwith the, the Delta five.
Great.
So I think for somebody like Buds,obviously in our, in our brick and
(21:13):
mortar stores, we've got some greatpeople that can kind of walk the
customer when they walk in and say,okay, you know, they're, they're
coming in 'cause they have a problem.
And it's up to our sales staffto figure out that problem
and offer the right solution.
Online it does become more challenging.
Right?
How do we, on the website, so we areone of the things we do, like, for
instance, we'll do a big email marketingcampaign and talk about, you know, our
(21:35):
favorite concealed carry guns for ladiesor our favorite home defense shotgun.
So we do try to position product forthe usage occasion, but we're also
working on some tools to come out soonwhere maybe through our website you
start to walk yourself through a path.
Where our experts kind of take youto, okay, if this are, these are
(21:56):
your needs and who you are, voila.
Here are the best options for you.
That's
great.
So we've got ideas like thatin the works and we, you know,
we're excited about that.
So hopefully that.
So thinking, kind of forward to this, ifyou are someone that wants to get into
marketing or just starting in marketing,what are the things that you've seen
(22:16):
work in the outdoor industry and thefirearms industry and really even at
Daniel Defense, the defense industry?
Mm-hmm.
So you've kind of seen a little bitof everything, the consumer, all kinds
of markets that you're selling toand, and you wanna be in marketing or
you're in marketing in this industry.
What have you seen work and not work?
I mean, what are thecommon misperceptions?
(22:38):
Because there, there's been a few.
Yeah.
I think,
I think number one, what's so appealingabout it is they're just, I think,
great people in this industry.
That's what I've come to realize.
Right?
We obviously align around oursupport for the Second Amendment
but also fun, passionate people.
You know, we all compete with eachother to some degree, but boy, you go
to shop show or NRA and everybody's.
(22:59):
Kind of friends too.
I've got friends all across this industry.
I'm really blessed with that.
You can reach out to people and picktheir brain and, you know, I, I, I
really liked that a lot about it.
I think for somebody new coming in, youknow, depending on where they come from,
I. I think it's, it's, you know, I thinksometimes a bigger company with, you
know bigger budgets and staff is probablyfor a newer person, a good entry point.
(23:24):
I think you, yeah, there's probably a bitmore training, more people to learn from.
You might be in a more narrow position,you know, just focused on, you know, I do
trade show marketing, or I just do socialmedia, or I do email marketing, but you
need to kind of cut your teeth on that.
And it's an opportunity to now learnthe industry jargon, the product,
(23:45):
how the, you know, the distributionsystems work, what dealers are are.
So I think, you know, as a new youngerperson, I'd probably recommend that.
But then at the end of the day, it'sreally the people you work with.
You know, I've learned thatthroughout my career and I've.
Probably worked at too many places.
I've bounced around.
But it all comes back to the people.
Yeah.
And I think if you like, who you workwith and respect them and, and vice versa.
(24:07):
It's, you know, at the end of theday, that's what it's all about.
And aligning on the mission,you know, what does the mission,
does the company have a vision?
Does it have a why statement?
Is it something that motivatesyou to get to work each day?
'Cause I think we all wanna do morethan just sell a widget, right?
Yes.
There's, there's a higher purposethat gets us out bed in the
morning, and I think the more.
A, a company can articulate that.
(24:28):
I've found that to bethe better experience.
I think one thing you do really wellthan you've done for a long time,
and I remember when, you know, weinitially were first meeting, you
do a very good job of networking.
No matter where you're working,you're keeping in touch with people
and you're expanding your network.
Mm-hmm.
I think, and I'd love your input onthis, that some of the trade shows,
(24:53):
and you mentioned the NSSF conference.
Mm-hmm.
Which is our trade association,and you can, people can find
out information on that.
It's the National Shooting SportsFoundation and it's nss f.org
if anyone wants to look it up.
How do you, do youutilize those trade shows?
(25:13):
Are they valuable to go to because they'reexpensive and is that important to go to?
And if so, which ones whenyou're in marketing, what,
what makes those valuable?
Sure.
You know, I think I, let's talkabout the largest for folks.
Dunno, is the Shot show,which is January in Las Vegas.
That's put on by the NSSF.
I think this year therewas 60,000 plus attendees.
(25:35):
All the, you know, majormanufactured players come to this.
It's really the showcase for the industry.
Sometimes as a manufacturer, you know,it turns into a bit of an arms race.
You, you want to build a bigger boothand the next guy, you start bringing more
people, you do extra things and you canreally start to add up budget wise and
yeah,
in, in days past, probably even early.
(25:56):
Way back before I evengot in the industry.
I think more business was actuallywritten at a show like that.
More sales.
Mm-hmm.
Nowadays there's other forums andways with technology and other
kind of shows where you can getwith customers and sell things.
So you think you can sometimesquestion, gee, was the ROI there on
going to something like Shot Show?
I think the answer is yes.
In fact, I was talking to a friendof mine who's the CEO of a major gun
(26:19):
company about this a couple yearsago, and he said, you know what?
This is where we all get together.
This is really a great source of fundsfor our trade association, which goes
out and does so many things for us.
Yeah, they do.
And then Shot Show,it's, it's a, it's hard.
It's a long week, but a lot of fun.
And Yes, to answer your questiondirectly, the networking and bumping
into people picking people's brains,finding out what's happening at
(26:42):
different players is, I think invaluable.
NRA is also, you know, kind of,I think a very fun show to go
to because you know, typicallyyou're now dealing with consumers.
Yeah.
You know, who in many cases got car.
Well, you're getting productfeedback right there.
Right.
And, you know, and sometimes they maycome and wanna spend an hour telling you
about their grandpa's gun and you know,can get a little bit like, okay, but you
(27:03):
know, they're so excited to be there.
Yeah.
You can't help but get a kick,you know, a smile on your face.
There's other, you know, buygroup shows that are really
important distributor shows.
Then the, like you said, the conferencesthat, various conferences that are put
on, you know, I know some point of salecompanies put on conferences, NSSF,
other groups you know, I think, I thinkthey're all, they all have a place.
(27:25):
Yeah.
Sometimes you can't go to all of 'em,time and money won't allow you, but
yeah, I would, I anybody wanting toget involved in this industry, I think
trying to get, you know, get out to theShot show would be maybe a first step.
And, and there are a lot of marketingpeople at all different levels.
And if in your, in our industry, Ifeel like if you need help, you can
ask someone to give you their advice orgive you help or make an introduction.
(27:49):
And I think without exception,people are glad to do that.
So if you're in marketing in this lineof work, there's resources out there.
You're not on your own, even ifyou're a lone wolf at a company.
Exactly.
You know, like, I got to know MarkSmith, CEO, from Smith and Wesson, and
when he was leading manufacturing ofSmith and Wesson, I was at Accu Sport.
We would take dealers every December on aquail hunt and it was a great opportunity.
(28:13):
Got to become friends with himand he's just a wonderful person.
I mean everybody at Smith and Wessonadores him and he's doing great things.
You know, he's a CEO of Smith and Wessonand you know, he'll take his time to help.
Tom Taylor that, you know,was recently at Sig Sauer.
I think I just saw he is moving to cz.
Another wonderful guywith a great background.
You know, those are just twoexamples of folks that I know pe,
(28:35):
you know, they just have heart ofgold from my experience at least.
And there, and that's, there'scountless others I can't think of,
but, there's a lot of, and have
to make recommendations if you,you know, if, if they don't know
someone, they know someone who does.
If you need a resource,
right?
I know a guy like Leland Nichols at OrchidAdvisors, you know, every time he sees
a posting, he puts it out on LinkedIn,you know, he says for your reference.
(28:58):
So I think there's people that, you know,they realize that within our industry
it's very volatile, it's cyclical.
You know, we have good times andbad times, and sometimes companies
expand and sometimes they contract.
So.
You know, the, the way the worldis, it's not unusual to be in
a different seat at some point.
Yeah.
And it's nice to know.
I know when I was looking in this,for this last position, there are
(29:19):
a lot of folks I talked to thatgave, gave me help and advice.
I. And, you know, I'mtotally appreciative of that.
Yep.
No, it's a great industry andand I, I really appreciate
you being on the podcast.
Thank you for this, because youhave such a great, broad experience
about these different parts of ourindustry, and like I said, we could.
(29:41):
We could talk about different parts ofmarketing, I think for an hour easily,
because each one right, is so complex.
It's just like a race keeping up.
But there are resources out there withinthe industry and it's good to know.
And just been great to see howyou have impacted each of those
organizations because I've beenblessed to know you at each one, so.
(30:03):
Oh, well thank you so much and
likewise.
And it's been a lot of fun.
I appreciate the time.
Well, thanks for being on the podcast.
We're gonna wrap this up.
If you guys anyone listening wantsto get ahold of Steve Reed, you can
find him on LinkedIn and definitelycheck out Bud's Gun Stores.
I had a thought while we were talking.
The next time I'm in Kentucky, I'mgonna make that a side trip and
(30:23):
make it a field trip for myself.
Oh, please,
please do.
You know, go to too many.
Yeah.
Big horse racing here, bourbon and.
You know, I just tell you on Buds,we've, I work with some guys here.
Our buyers, they work hard everyday to get product and we price it.
You know, we put out ourbest price every day, fast.
Free shipping on firearms.
I'm doing a Buds plug here.
(30:44):
We got every product you could imagine.
Great customer service team.
So Buds gun shop.com for thoseof you looking for, for product.
I love it.
And we will put that link also on allof our social media and our website and
anywhere that this podcast is postedvideo or audio so you can definitely
(31:05):
find that link for Bud's Gun Shop.
Alright, Steve, appreciate it thisis a wrap for HeadHunters NW Podcast.
Okay, welcome to anotherpodcast with HeadHunters NW.
I'm Shaylene Kiner.
I am thrilled to have SteveReed here, Steve Reed.
I have had the pleasure of knowing youfor some time and it's such an honor
and I have to say, we didn't talk aboutthis before we got on camera, but.
(00:21):
I want all recruiters to know thatif you do not do what Steve asks
you to do, he will hold you to task.
He has held me to task and I, I'mthrilled, honestly, because who doesn't
wanna work with someone who keeps youhonest and says, yeah, I screwed up.
I screwed that up, Steve.
I'll fix it.
And I gotta tell you, it'sone of the things I appreciate
(00:43):
about you most because.
None of us are perfect and we makemistakes, and I'm so honored you
would be on this podcast with meto share with our audience all
your experience in the industry.
Well, thank you so,honestly, thank you Steve,
and I'm, I'm thrilled to be here.
Thanks for having me.
And yeah, back to that, I remember weworked together on an assignment at
(01:04):
Daniel Defense and, you know, I reallyappreciated what you guys did in terms
of going out and screening candidates.
You sent some videos of them answeringpre-planned questions, you know,
and we had to go through a fewpeople to find the right person.
But the great news through allthat is Jacob Becker, who is now,
you know, driving a lot of the newproduct strategy at Daniel Defense.
He's really thriving there.
(01:24):
I saw him at Shot Showand he's happy as can be.
They relocated from, I think,Illinois to Savannah area, and
he's doing a great job for him.
So.
Thanks to you guys.
He's a good guy and best of luck to him.
Yes.
Well we get, sometimes we have togo through quite a few frogs and it
really is good to work with someonethat gives you honest feedback.
Even if, even if it might not seem like atthe time that it should be well received.
(01:51):
It is well received and.
It.
You need that direct feedback.
And I think that that's really unusualbecause if your hiring manager shouldn't
hesitate to hold that consultantaccountable because really that's
what you're paying them for and.
And that was a kind of a unique position.
It was kind of a newposition for Daniel Defense.
So we were also kind of, youknow, molding it ourselves and
(02:14):
figuring out what we wanted.
And I think through the interview processwith some of the other candidates, we
realized, okay, we need a little bitmore of this, a little less of that.
And we just had to relay that to you.
But all good in the end.
So, and I appreciate allyou're doing for the industry.
See you everywhere on socialmedia and all the shows.
I know you were justlike traveling last week.
You're always on the, on the plane.
And thank you for, for all of that.
(02:36):
Thank you.
I, I appreciate it.
It's because of people like you thathave inspired me and who doesn't
wanna work harder and do a great job.
Right.
Because that's when youreally feel good about it.
But let's talk about your experience,because I want people who are listening.
If you don't know Steve Reed,this is gonna be a really
interesting podcast because hehas worked in a lot of different.
(02:57):
Areas in our industry, not justone dimensional on manufacturing.
And I think your sales and marketingexperience is really valuable because.
You do have such a broad exposure to allof these things, so maybe you could, for
the audience that doesn't know you, maybeyou could kind of touch on how you started
(03:17):
in the industry and where you worked andwhat those industries were made up of.
Right.
Well, so prior to getting into the, thetwo a space, I kind of, after business
school had the traditional kind of.
Packaged goods marketing experience.
I worked for ConAgra Foods wentthrough brand management ranks.
I ultimately worked at apharmaceutical company, Eli Lilly.
So kind of learned classicallytrained marketing from a lot of
(03:39):
really smart people that workedat great companies one day.
And then I did a little did astint at an advertising agency.
Kind of went from the clientside to the agency side.
Kind of found out after two yearsthat wasn't quite for me, wanted
to get back to the client side.
I saw, I was living in central Ohio andjust kind of saw a posting, which is
typically how you don't get a job, right?
And you know that better than anybodyfor some company called Accu Sport.
(04:02):
And I wasn't even sure what theindustry was, but what they were trying
to do sounded really interesting.
So I kind of, you know, floated aresume in Lo and behold, went out and
met with some just really great people.
For those of you who don't know,ACU Sport was at the time one
of the leading shooting sportsdistributors of major wholesaler.
Had a vision of really, you know, focusingon independent brick and mortar retailers,
(04:25):
providing them a lot of value addedservices to help differentiate acus sport.
Was a technology driven,very smart folks at the helm.
Good people I. And I was there,let's see, from 2012 through 2018,
you know, had a great experience.
Led a team of some fabulous folks.
In some cases they were former retailers,dealers that are well known in the
(04:46):
industry, the Hank ics, Doug VanderWoos, Dan Compo, guys that are still
out there now that everybody knows.
And
yeah,
we created a whole suite of servicesto help dealers, everything from how
to market and advertise their store,how to manage their range, how to.
Trained their sales staff.
We got into merchandising,planogramming, you know, just auto
replenishment systems, very data-driven.
(05:07):
And, you know, everythingwas great doing really well.
I think our leadership decided though weneeded to really expand and invest in the
distribution center and put a lot of moneyinto it, right when the Trump slump came.
And lo and behold, we then startedto have, you know, cash flow
issues and unfortunately thecompany had to kind of put itself
up for sale and it is no longer.
But
(05:27):
yeah, it's weird everytime I say that to to
people, yeah.
They kind of say, how could thathave been such a great experience?
You guys didn't make it.
And yes, that's true on level, a greatcompany and everybody I talk to out
in the industry, I go to shop show andsee a bunch of former acus sport people
and we are like, ah, if we'd just beenable to hang in there a bit longer,
I think with the pandemic we would'vereally been really well positioned to,
i, I've done a lot of great things,but, but that was a great experience.
(05:50):
Like I said, got to meettons of dealers and kind of
understand their business model.
Multi-store dealers, small, independentall around the country, many of
whom I consider my friends today.
And so that was, that wasa really good experience.
So then from there I needed a job andI was fortunate enough to have met,
you know, the folks at Daniel Defense.
(06:11):
So Marty Daniel was lookingfor a VP of marketing.
And I was fortunate toget that role in 2018.
You know, and Daniel defense is justsuch an iconic brand and you gotta give
Marty and Cindy Daniel so much credit.
I mean, they've essentially createdthis premium segment of the AR world,
you know, and he did it out of theback of his garage door business.
And lo and behold, it'sturned into this behemoth and.
(06:34):
You know, I've worked on a lotof brands in my day, but there's
some fanatical fans of that brand.
It was just great to be there,really smart people that, you know,
I had the pleasure leading andacross a lot of different areas.
Met a lot of people then and more onthe media side that I didn't get to
meet with Acus Sports, who got a lotto meet more of the influencers and
the media company and the writers.
(06:55):
And, you know, we got into some,launching some new products, so.
You know, again, great,great brand, great company.
You know, Marty eventually decidedto bring in a new CEO Rod reason.
Great guy.
They're doing wonderful things there.
And of course that sometimeshappens is the new CEO brings
in some of his team and Yep.
Myself and a few of the rest of us were,you know, it's, it was kind of time to go.
(07:15):
Yep.
And so that, again, great experience.
We love live down in Savannah,by the way, if anyone.
Wants to get down there.
It's a great place to live.
But then I was fortunate to hearabout this opportunity at Buds.
Yeah, the shop show 2024 got to meetJoe Murphy, who's the sole owner
of Buds and just a wonderful guy.
He's been involved with thebusiness for, I think since 2010.
(07:36):
He now solely owns it.
And you know, Buds is another iconicbrand that is doing a lot of great things
and has done a lot of great things.
So now I'm on that kindof dealer side learning.
Or how, at least for the last14 months have been experiencing
that side of the business.
Well, that's pretty interestingbecause going from a wholesaler
distributor to a manufacturer to nowrepresenting this great company that
(07:59):
helps dealers, talk to me a little bitabout marketing and how has that, how
does each of those industries change?
Because I know the manufacturing side.
They've got their own set ofmarketing rules and then, you
know, or needs, I should say.
And then the distribution, who,you know, who are you marketing to?
(08:19):
And each, each one isdifferent types of customers.
How does that affect what you're doing?
Well, you know, before answeringthat, I think at the end of the day,
marketing is storytelling, you know?
Yeah.
And, and a brand is really, I lookat it as a promise or relationship.
So whether it's B2B, like itreally was with Accu Sport, right?
Yeah.
That was not a consumer facing brand, butwe had to get that brand and even branding
(08:41):
our value added services, somethingwe call Customer Link, create a brand
around that so that the dealers, ourcustomers would, would create awareness
among them and differentiate ourselves.
So that was kind of more of a B2B play.
And more of probably one-to-one selling.
Not a lot of, you know,hardly any mass advertising.
Yeah, we didn't really need to have asocial media presence, but we had to
(09:03):
market those products by visiting people.
Kind of more direct selling, if you will.
Obviously you then transition tosomething like Daniel Defense.
You're now a manufacturer brand.
You're talking to all the constituents.
You're marketing yourself andthe brand to your dealer network,
your distributor network, andultimately the end user consumer.
And it's, you know, in that case,in, in our industry, really what
(09:24):
I've learned is the margin isreally with the manufacturers.
I mean, they take the significantrisks, they make all the capital
investment, and therefore, I thinkthey rightly get most of the margin.
If you look at, you know, the transactionsup and down our, our supply chain.
So there's money to invest,creating awareness, creating
differentiation, stickiness with people.
(09:44):
A lot more vehicles to use to talkto those various constituents.
Then when you kind of segue to thedealer side, you know, for most brick
and mortar dealers you're talkingto, you know, the, your local radius.
Right?
You know, a lot of folks don't realizethat with Buds, they think of Buds as
primarily an online player, and thatis the biggest part of our business.
But we have three brickand mortar locations.
(10:06):
You know, one here in Lexington, Kentucky.
One in Sevierville, Tennessee, kindof, which is the, you know pigeon
Forge area and then Gatlinburg area,and then one in Greenville, Kentucky,
the western side of the state that'sactually branded as Uncle Lee's.
It was an acquisition.
So, you know, as a brick and mortardealer in many cases without an online
presence, you're really marketingto that local audience through local
(10:29):
television, local radio, word of mouth.
You know, a lot of grassroots marketing,getting to know the folks in your
community, putting on community events.
So that's a fun part of this business.
But then we also have this major onlinepresence where we get to kind of market
to the masses all across the country.
So, yeah, I looked online.
It is really impressive and it's, I betthat is quite a lot to keep track of.
(10:52):
I mean.
E-commerce is changing all the time.
How do you, I mean, I can't evenimagine how you lasso that behemoth,
because there's gotta be constantchanges needed all the time and
there's, and monitoring of that.
There's a lot to, to, to monitor for sure.
And, you know, you gotta give BudWells was the original Bud and
back in, you know, he's, he'd hada business, I think he'd been,
(11:14):
they've been around for 50 years.
We've been around as brick and mortar.
But in early two thousands he hadthe foresight to say, you know,
I think we can sell guns online.
Which was really pretty unique.
And novel.
Wow.
Yeah.
And he figured out how to do that.
Hired some smart people and reallyhad that first mover advantage.
So a lot of people still today,when you think of online gun
sales, you think of Buds.
But it's on us, you know,kind of this newer regime.
(11:37):
We're trying to take the brand in newplaces to modernize it, to do new things.
We offer, I think, a loton our website today.
But you're right.
We, we have access to, youknow, a million products.
When you think about all distributorproduct we can get hold of, we've
gotta figure out, you know, what wehave do we have the right quantities?
(11:57):
Are we pricing it correctly?
Are we promoting it correctly?
So there's a lot of data.
We need to serve many masters, right?
All of those manufacturerbrands expect things from us.
Yeah.
But ultimately we serveour consumer, right?
That's the customer we have to serve.
So it it keeps us pretty busykeeping track of all that, for sure.
I.
Now if you're a consumer, then itdoesn't matter where you live, you can
(12:18):
order from Buds and then you can havethat shipped to the FFL that's local.
Correct.
As long, if it's a serializeditem, if it's a, you know,
we do a lot of accessories.
Those we can ship right to yourhome, right directly to you with
the, with the serialized item.
It's gotta go through the FFL, gottado the background checks, et cetera.
So, yeah, more and more folks, Ithink, you know, the data show are
(12:40):
getting comfortable ordering online.
Yeah.
But there's still many who, okay, there'sa little different and we get that.
So, you know, a lot of folks certainlyencourage, go to your local store,
know the sales staff there, try outguns, but there's also ways and things
we're working on to help make ita real seamless online experience.
But, you know, the bar'salways getting raised.
(13:01):
Yeah.
You know, Amazon sets the standarde-commerce and I think people
nowadays, you know, probablyfigure I order a gun on Saturday
night and I get it Sunday morning.
It's quite that way in our space.
Yeah.
But we're certainly working tomake it a really good experience.
How do you keep ahead of allof these changes in marketing?
I mean, we just talked a little bitoffline at the beginning, and I don't
(13:21):
even think you can say, look how muchmarketing's changed in five years.
To me, it's like every sixmonths or every couple months.
I mean, I can't hardly keep up withthe tools that I have available to me.
I. And I think, how can you lookfor that as a larger company?
There's so many choices.
How do you keep up?
What, what do you do with your staff?
(13:42):
How do they keep up?
Yeah, it's, it's a challenge.
I mean, obviously you know, groups likethe NSSF and I know I wasn't able to
attend the marketing summit this week,but I've been in the past and that's
always giving you great information.
You know, one example is social mediaand I, I, I think you may know Chuck
Rossi, who is now with Meta, is a, atwo A fan, and he's been great because
(14:04):
we've been, you know, as, as if youdon't know, we've typically had a lot
of restrictions in social media in termsof kind of directly selling a firearm.
Well, he's, I think, kind ofturning them a little bit in our
favor, and so it's great to havea resource like that that you can.
You know, kind of go to him and go,Hey, do you think this would be okay?
And he's, he's helping us, youknow, get you know, getting better.
(14:24):
That's good on doing social media.
And then things like, youknow, not long ago this whole
affiliate marketing was yes.
You know, a conceptnot too many years ago.
Like, what's that?
And who are those guys?
And who are all these influencersand how do you work with them
and how do you get 'em product?
And, you know, there's a whole worldof folks that they've, you know, these
influencers have done a great jobattracting the consumer eyeball and.
(14:46):
That's where consumers are looking forinformation and that's where brands and
dealers probably need to be in many cases.
So, yeah, you know, that's anotherexample of things constantly changing.
But you know, again, back to it's, yougotta have a brand, you gotta have a
point of difference, you've gotta becustomer centric, understand what you
do well, and you know, do your best tofigure out how you spread that message.
(15:08):
Now in your experience, you've had smallteams and large teams and all different
size teams, I know reporting to you indifferent areas like product development,
like we talked about at your other role,and I'm sure it changes all the time.
How do you find good marketing talent?
And I don't mean referring to me, Imean, what, what is it that you look for?
(15:30):
You know, what are the traits?
Because a lot of people areinterested in marketing and I. From
my perspective, I think marketing is.
The place to be becauseit's changing all the time.
Right.
And we're always gonna need marketing.
It seems like marketingmore so now than ever.
Yeah.
How do you find those people?
What, what skills do you look for?
(15:52):
You know, I, I think you, youneed to have a certain curiosity.
You know, I usually in the interviewprocess ask people to tell me
what are their favorite brands.
Even out, you know, outsideof the two-way space.
And within it, you know, hopefullythey like study brands then.
And then why do you like that?
What does it do that attracts you?
And see if they can articulate that back.
I mean, there's a real,it's art and science, right?
Marketing is, is capturingthe brain and the heart.
(16:14):
And so people that kindof understand that.
Sometimes folks think marketingis just advertising or it's just
creating pretty pictures and, youknow, it's, it, it's more than that.
That's just an aspect of it.
There's a whole data part of it.
And strategic parts.
I think you're looking for peoplewho are pretty, you know, quick on
the uptake and have a curiosity.
I think what's especially interestingin this space is it's, people
(16:35):
are so passionate about this.
You know, and I, I camein from the outside.
I didn't really grow up a gun guy.
You know, I had started to get, youknow, enjoy shotgun, you know, skeet
shooting and done a few things andall of a sudden got into this space.
And I realized, you know, we arepretty good as an industry of
talking specs and twist rates and.
(16:56):
Ballistic coefficient.
We got a lot of guys who can sitaround and get, and women who can
sit around a table and go way deepon stuff and, and it's wonderful.
But you know, there's a lot of folks,especially when you look at what happened
in Covid who are, who are just gettingin or recently got into this space,
they don't know what any of that means.
So yeah, I think the ability to takesome of that technical data, turn it into
(17:17):
simple features, advantage, benefits, totalk to that more novice audience is also.
Something to look for.
Can people kind of break thatdown and simplify things?
Is that interest?
I think that's very important.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Super
important.
Because even though you may go, ohyeah, I mean, like talking to me,
can I understand those numbers?
(17:37):
Some of 'em and some of 'em not.
And, you know, can I, I can figure itout and I know who to ask for help,
but if I didn't have all you guys.
To refer to it would beoverwhelming and intimidating.
And I think that's one of the thingsthat marketing has lent itself to
positively in our industry is I thinkmarketing in our industry is learning
(17:58):
that we need to be more welcoming.
And it's okay if you're a noviceand you should ask for help.
And I think we're seeing that a lot morethan we even did a couple years ago.
Right, right.
And even if you.
If you look at whathappened with Covid, right?
They, but again, SSF says thenumber may be as high as 20 million.
Maybe it's more first time shooters.
You know, I talked to a lot of dealersduring that period that said, you know,
(18:21):
people were just flooding my store andthey didn't even know what they were
buying as all long as it went, bang.
Some portion of those new consumers haveprobably gotten very into the sport and
they already onto their fifth, sixthgun and are at the range all the time.
Another percentage, probably the majority,that gun may never have come out of
the box and still sitting at home.
Yeah.
So.
You know, we need to understand thatand understand those various audiences.
(18:43):
And the other thing we learned doing someresearch that I'm aware of is that, you
know, a lot of the folks that came andbought were, you know, were more on the
right, the left of the political spectrum.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
You know, and they were in places.
They weren't our typical kindof who we're used to talking to.
You know, I remember seeing somedata that some of the new time
handgun owners were still pro AR ban.
(19:05):
So on one hand they'd gone outand bought a handgun 'cause
they felt like they needed it.
But they, the idea of a scaryblack ar I don't like those.
Or they were pro magazine capacity.
Again, I think that'sjust an education issue.
Like,
yeah,
you, I don't think they really,you know, we need to educate them.
But that's all great opportunity for us.
We need to be able to talk to all these,you know, let alone all the different.
(19:27):
You know, ethnic groups, females, youknow, we talked about here, there's
even an older segment of society, right?
Like ranges having, youknow, senior day, you know.
Yeah.
With disposable incomeand time on their hands.
So we need to talk and smaller guns,
so ways you age, you know, youdon't wanna hold that big, heavy 10
millimeter gun, I mean, you know,blow your shoulder off at that point.
(19:48):
Exactly.
Maybe you wanna go to pocket, youknow, maybe there can be some.
Some fun in that for them or youknow, that would be something
they're more comfortable with.
I think, as you know, at Buds,that's gotta be hard to say.
You've got all kinds of firearms,just as many firearms as there
are types of people and there areall these different categories.
(20:10):
How does marketing, how do you,how are you able to wrangle that
and say, oh my gosh, we've got.
You know, action cowboy action shootershere and you know, AR is here and you
know, then you've got the people thatare all about long range shooting and
that's, there's a lot of products.
There's, there's no end of learningopportunity in our industry,
(20:32):
I think, and I don't know howmarketing can manage all that.
Yeah.
You know, the vast majority of the volumethat I think the industry sells is, is.
You know, compact handguns, right?
Yeah.
It's, it's handgunsconcealed carry polymer.
That's the majority of the business.
But you're right, there's huge, youknow, you've seen the, the growth in
lever action over the last couple years.
(20:52):
It's still a pretty small niche, but yeah.
Got really popular and greatbrands like Smith that we out
with lever guns and selling those.
And so there's folks that love that.
The, the precision rifle was a bigdeal, especially a few years ago.
Daniel Defense, we came outwith the, the Delta five.
Great.
So I think for somebody like Buds,obviously in our, in our brick and
(21:13):
mortar stores, we've got some greatpeople that can kind of walk the
customer when they walk in and say,okay, you know, they're, they're
coming in 'cause they have a problem.
And it's up to our sales staffto figure out that problem
and offer the right solution.
Online it does become more challenging.
Right?
How do we, on the website, so we areone of the things we do, like, for
instance, we'll do a big email marketingcampaign and talk about, you know, our
(21:35):
favorite concealed carry guns for ladiesor our favorite home defense shotgun.
So we do try to position product forthe usage occasion, but we're also
working on some tools to come out soonwhere maybe through our website you
start to walk yourself through a path.
Where our experts kind of take youto, okay, if this are, these are
(21:56):
your needs and who you are, voila.
Here are the best options for you.
That's
great.
So we've got ideas like thatin the works and we, you know,
we're excited about that.
So hopefully that.
So thinking, kind of forward to this, ifyou are someone that wants to get into
marketing or just starting in marketing,what are the things that you've seen
(22:16):
work in the outdoor industry and thefirearms industry and really even at
Daniel Defense, the defense industry?
Mm-hmm.
So you've kind of seen a little bitof everything, the consumer, all kinds
of markets that you're selling toand, and you wanna be in marketing or
you're in marketing in this industry.
What have you seen work and not work?
I mean, what are thecommon misperceptions?
(22:38):
Because there, there's been a few.
Yeah.
I think,
I think number one, what's so appealingabout it is they're just, I think,
great people in this industry.
That's what I've come to realize.
Right?
We obviously align around oursupport for the Second Amendment
but also fun, passionate people.
You know, we all compete with eachother to some degree, but boy, you go
to shop show or NRA and everybody's.
(22:59):
Kind of friends too.
I've got friends all across this industry.
I'm really blessed with that.
You can reach out to people and picktheir brain and, you know, I, I, I
really liked that a lot about it.
I think for somebody new coming in, youknow, depending on where they come from,
I. I think it's, it's, you know, I thinksometimes a bigger company with, you
know bigger budgets and staff is probablyfor a newer person, a good entry point.
(23:24):
I think you, yeah, there's probably a bitmore training, more people to learn from.
You might be in a more narrow position,you know, just focused on, you know, I do
trade show marketing, or I just do socialmedia, or I do email marketing, but you
need to kind of cut your teeth on that.
And it's an opportunity to now learnthe industry jargon, the product,
(23:45):
how the, you know, the distributionsystems work, what dealers are are.
So I think, you know, as a new youngerperson, I'd probably recommend that.
But then at the end of the day, it'sreally the people you work with.
You know, I've learned thatthroughout my career and I've.
Probably worked at too many places.
I've bounced around.
But it all comes back to the people.
Yeah.
And I think if you like, who you workwith and respect them and, and vice versa.
(24:07):
It's, you know, at the end of theday, that's what it's all about.
And aligning on the mission,you know, what does the mission,
does the company have a vision?
Does it have a why statement?
Is it something that motivatesyou to get to work each day?
'Cause I think we all wanna do morethan just sell a widget, right?
Yes.
There's, there's a higher purposethat gets us out bed in the
morning, and I think the more.
A, a company can articulate that.
(24:28):
I've found that to bethe better experience.
I think one thing you do really wellthan you've done for a long time,
and I remember when, you know, weinitially were first meeting, you
do a very good job of networking.
No matter where you're working,you're keeping in touch with people
and you're expanding your network.
Mm-hmm.
I think, and I'd love your input onthis, that some of the trade shows,
(24:53):
and you mentioned the NSSF conference.
Mm-hmm.
Which is our trade association,and you can, people can find
out information on that.
It's the National Shooting SportsFoundation and it's nss f.org
if anyone wants to look it up.
How do you, do youutilize those trade shows?
(25:13):
Are they valuable to go to because they'reexpensive and is that important to go to?
And if so, which ones whenyou're in marketing, what,
what makes those valuable?
Sure.
You know, I think I, let's talkabout the largest for folks.
Dunno, is the Shot show,which is January in Las Vegas.
That's put on by the NSSF.
I think this year therewas 60,000 plus attendees.
(25:35):
All the, you know, majormanufactured players come to this.
It's really the showcase for the industry.
Sometimes as a manufacturer, you know,it turns into a bit of an arms race.
You, you want to build a bigger boothand the next guy, you start bringing more
people, you do extra things and you canreally start to add up budget wise and
yeah,
in, in days past, probably even early.
(25:56):
Way back before I evengot in the industry.
I think more business was actuallywritten at a show like that.
More sales.
Mm-hmm.
Nowadays there's other forums andways with technology and other
kind of shows where you can getwith customers and sell things.
So you think you can sometimesquestion, gee, was the ROI there on
going to something like Shot Show?
I think the answer is yes.
In fact, I was talking to a friendof mine who's the CEO of a major gun
(26:19):
company about this a couple yearsago, and he said, you know what?
This is where we all get together.
This is really a great source of fundsfor our trade association, which goes
out and does so many things for us.
Yeah, they do.
And then Shot Show,it's, it's a, it's hard.
It's a long week, but a lot of fun.
And Yes, to answer your questiondirectly, the networking and bumping
into people picking people's brains,finding out what's happening at
(26:42):
different players is, I think invaluable.
NRA is also, you know, kind of,I think a very fun show to go
to because you know, typicallyyou're now dealing with consumers.
Yeah.
You know, who in many cases got car.
Well, you're getting productfeedback right there.
Right.
And, you know, and sometimes they maycome and wanna spend an hour telling you
about their grandpa's gun and you know,can get a little bit like, okay, but you
(27:03):
know, they're so excited to be there.
Yeah.
You can't help but get a kick,you know, a smile on your face.
There's other, you know, buygroup shows that are really
important distributor shows.
Then the, like you said, the conferencesthat, various conferences that are put
on, you know, I know some point of salecompanies put on conferences, NSSF,
other groups you know, I think, I thinkthey're all, they all have a place.
(27:25):
Yeah.
Sometimes you can't go to all of 'em,time and money won't allow you, but
yeah, I would, I anybody wanting toget involved in this industry, I think
trying to get, you know, get out to theShot show would be maybe a first step.
And, and there are a lot of marketingpeople at all different levels.
And if in your, in our industry, Ifeel like if you need help, you can
ask someone to give you their advice orgive you help or make an introduction.
(27:49):
And I think without exception,people are glad to do that.
So if you're in marketing in this lineof work, there's resources out there.
You're not on your own, even ifyou're a lone wolf at a company.
Exactly.
You know, like, I got to know MarkSmith, CEO, from Smith and Wesson, and
when he was leading manufacturing ofSmith and Wesson, I was at Accu Sport.
We would take dealers every December on aquail hunt and it was a great opportunity.
(28:13):
Got to become friends with himand he's just a wonderful person.
I mean everybody at Smith and Wessonadores him and he's doing great things.
You know, he's a CEO of Smith and Wessonand you know, he'll take his time to help.
Tom Taylor that, you know,was recently at Sig Sauer.
I think I just saw he is moving to cz.
Another wonderful guywith a great background.
You know, those are just twoexamples of folks that I know pe,
(28:35):
you know, they just have heart ofgold from my experience at least.
And there, and that's, there'scountless others I can't think of,
but, there's a lot of, and have
to make recommendations if you,you know, if, if they don't know
someone, they know someone who does.
If you need a resource,
right?
I know a guy like Leland Nichols at OrchidAdvisors, you know, every time he sees
a posting, he puts it out on LinkedIn,you know, he says for your reference.
(28:58):
So I think there's people that, you know,they realize that within our industry
it's very volatile, it's cyclical.
You know, we have good times andbad times, and sometimes companies
expand and sometimes they contract.
So.
You know, the, the way the worldis, it's not unusual to be in
a different seat at some point.
Yeah.
And it's nice to know.
I know when I was looking in this,for this last position, there are
(29:19):
a lot of folks I talked to thatgave, gave me help and advice.
I. And, you know, I'mtotally appreciative of that.
Yep.
No, it's a great industry andand I, I really appreciate
you being on the podcast.
Thank you for this, because youhave such a great, broad experience
about these different parts of ourindustry, and like I said, we could.
(29:41):
We could talk about different parts ofmarketing, I think for an hour easily,
because each one right, is so complex.
It's just like a race keeping up.
But there are resources out there withinthe industry and it's good to know.
And just been great to see howyou have impacted each of those
organizations because I've beenblessed to know you at each one, so.
(30:03):
Oh, well thank you so much and
likewise.
And it's been a lot of fun.
I appreciate the time.
Well, thanks for being on the podcast.
We're gonna wrap this up.
If you guys anyone listening wantsto get ahold of Steve Reed, you can
find him on LinkedIn and definitelycheck out Bud's Gun Stores.
I had a thought while we were talking.
The next time I'm in Kentucky, I'mgonna make that a side trip and
(30:23):
make it a field trip for myself.
Oh, please,
please do.
You know, go to too many.
Yeah.
Big horse racing here, bourbon and.
You know, I just tell you on Buds,we've, I work with some guys here.
Our buyers, they work hard everyday to get product and we price it.
You know, we put out ourbest price every day, fast.
Free shipping on firearms.
I'm doing a Buds plug here.
(30:44):
We got every product you could imagine.
Great customer service team.
So Buds gun shop.com for thoseof you looking for, for product.
I love it.
And we will put that link also on allof our social media and our website and
anywhere that this podcast is postedvideo or audio so you can definitely
(31:05):
find that link for Bud's Gun Shop.
Alright, Steve, appreciate it thisis a wrap for HeadHunters NW Podcast.
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