July 15, 2025 • 40 mins
Welcome to HeadHunters NW Podcast!
I'm Shaylene Keiner, founder, business owner, and highly sought after specialized consultant with the connections and influence you need in the highly regulated industries all focused on building America's future as the world leader.
As the secret weapon for my clients, I identify, recruit, and secure the most in-demand, unreachable talent they need to accomplish their goals.
I work for some of the most coveted companies in the industries I represent. There is a saying in my line of work, "you are either friend or food," there is no in between. You want the power of my connections working for you behind the scenes if you want to finish first!
Join me as I sit down with top executives and industry leaders to dive deep behind the veil of highly regulated industries and the people who accomplish the goals that make our industry great!
Together, we explore the latest trends, innovations, and the inspiring stories behind the people who drive this dynamic industry forward. Our conversations go beyond the surface to uncover the fascinating insights that shape these vital sectors focused on building America's future as the world leader, while breaking down misconceptions and highlighting the rewarding career paths available.
Industries We Cover • Defense Manufacturing & Technology • Munitions Industries • Aerospace & Space Sectors • Intelligence & Cybersecurity Solutions • Artificial Intelligence Applications • Hardware & Software Development
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With this episode HeadHunters NW Podcast launches its inaugural panel discussion, marking a significant milestone after more than a year of development. This first-of-its-kind episode brings together three distinguished Chief Marketing Officers to examine the transformative role of artificial intelligence in modern marketing practices and its implications for the future of the profession.
The panel features industry veterans Josh Froelich from F5 Productions, Jennifer Tuttle, Ravenspire Consultancy, and Kristin Marlow, CMO, most recently representing SAR USA and Staccto, who share their insights on how AI tools are reshaping marketing strategies, team dynamics, and operational efficiency. The discussion delves into both the opportunities and challenges that AI presents to marketing professionals, offering listeners practical perspectives from leaders who are actively navigating this technological evolution.
This debut panel discussion represents HeadHunters NW Podcast's commitment to providing valuable insights from industry experts on topics that matter most to marketing professionals. The episode offers listeners actionable takeaways on integrating AI tools into their marketing strategies while maintaining the human elements that drive authentic customer connections.
Connect with our guests:
Josh Froelich
Website: https://f5productions.com/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/joshfroelich/
Jennifer Tuttle
Website: https://www.ravenspireconsultancy.com/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jennifertuttle/
Kristin Marlow
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kristinmarlow/
FIND US:
On the web: https://www.headhuntersnw.com/
<Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Okay.
Welcome to HeadHunters NW Podcast.
If you are listening to this, this isand don't have the benefit of the video.
Today we have three guests.
This is my first panel podcastthat I've been planning and
wanting to do for well over a year.
So this is just, I have three Guinea pigsactually, I guess is what you would say.
(00:23):
So, um.
to know that is listening on iHeartRadioor Apple Podcast or Spotify that
we're gonna try really hard to let youknow who's answering the questions.
But this is what I wouldcall our CMO podcast.
So our chief marketing officers, each oneof these professionals are exceptional
(00:49):
in their own right, and this podcast isabout AI and how it affects marketing.
So we started this discussion off withthe thought of taking ai and I asked AI
to give me a list of questions and wegot a huge amount of questions from ai
(01:11):
and then we narrowed it down to the fewquestions we thought that the other humans
would want to know and discuss about ai.
So bear with us because we have thebenefit of, claude by Anthropic that
has helped us with our subject, butI'm thrilled we have humans with
real life experience to answer these.
(01:33):
So stay on the line if you wanna learnabout AI and what our chief marketing
officers in the outdoor industry andshooting sports think about this.
So I wanna introduce Jennifer Tuttle.
Jennifer is one of our panelists.
She has three decades of experiencein marketing with the past 10 plus
(01:55):
years in the firearms industry.
She holds an undergraduate degreein psychology and a master's
degree in marketing, focusing onthe relationship between consumer
behavior and brand strategy.
That's.
Pretty important colleaguesrecognize her ability to address
complex projects and her willingnessto be hands-on in her work.
(02:16):
I can attest to that.
I have seen Jennifer's work inresponse to the need for high level
project assistance in the industry.
She recently began offeringfractional marketing services
independently through her companycalled Raven Spire Consultancy.
And we will have, all of ourpanelists links so you can access
(02:39):
them and hire them and talk to themand tap them for their expertise.
That will all be available onour website and also on anywhere
you find this information posted.
My next guess is Josh.
Oh dear Josh, I forgot to ask youto help me pronounce your last name.
Can you do that?
Yeah.
It's Froelich (fray-lik).
(03:00):
Froelich.
Oh, yes.
I would've butchered that.
Thank you, Josh.
Josh is a business owner and aserial entrepreneur, and he has
a passion for growing businesses.
Josh focuses on growing his companiesand helping clients grow their
businesses through quality marketingstrategies and strategic sales efforts.
With a background in the tech industry,he is no stranger to all things tech
(03:24):
as it relates to running a business.
And you can find hiswork at f5productions.com.
And our third panelist is KristenMarlow, who I'm so pleased to introduce.
Really Kristen has helped me putthis together, and without her
encouragement, I probably couldn'thave gotten this panel together.
So thanks to Kristen.
She introduced me to Josh, so I'mjust thrilled to have her join us.
(03:48):
She's the chief marketing officerwith 25 years experience in strategic
brand and performance marketing.
Including specialized expertisein the firearms industry.
She notably served as CMO forstaccato, where she led the strategic
rebrand, rebrand from STI to andspearheaded the company's digital
(04:10):
transformation by launching theirdirect to consumer gun eCommerce.
Well, that was a whopper project.
Experience includes leadership positionsin global digital PR agencies And
working with brands like Visa, T. RowePrice and Anthem Blue Cross Blue Shield.
(04:32):
On a personal note, Kristen is a mom toa high schooler and an active member of
the Daughters of the American Revolution.
And you can find Kristen on LinkedIn.
We're gonna make sure weput her link in there.
She has amazing experienceand everyone in their right.
So thank you, all of you.
For being on this podcast.
(04:52):
So let's get started with ourfirst question, and I'd like for
you each to kind of chime in.
Where do you see the biggest gapbetween AI hype and actual practical
application and marketing today?
Who wants to be the Guinea pig?
To start, I'll jump
in.
This is this is Jennifer.
I think there are two misleadingconcerns from AI hype.
(05:16):
The first is that marketing departmentsor jobs can be replaced by ai.
The second is that AI is a functionyou can turn on and not have to manage.
But the reality is neither is really true.
AI and marketing must be amanaged collaboration that cannot
take out the human element.
(05:36):
It should be seen as an essentialdriver of marketing efficiency and brand
performance that will help increase theoutput of marketing teams, granting them
more time for creativity and innovation.
Those two things that wenever have enough time for.
Rather than seeing AI as a.Threat to your job based on its
abilities to replace human efforts.
(05:57):
Instead, we really must seeAI as a required skillset to
be competitive in your role.
According to studies performed last yearby ad age, 91% of marketers reporting
the use of AI in their rooms right now.
With 69% saying it will create morejob opportunities versus replace them.
So I think in summary to thisquestion, we need to do a better job
(06:20):
of educating ourselves on ai and thedirect benefits it has on marketing.
Yeah, good points, Jennifer.
And that's, it's a scary topic.
I mean, it's definitely a topic morethan, more than several times a week.
I see posts on saying, oh, AI is bad, orAI is this, or it's gonna eliminate jobs.
(06:41):
I'm glad to hear you say that.
I. Yeah.
Kristen, you were shaking your head yes.
In agreement.
What are your thoughts on this?
Yeah, I, I mean, well, you should justknow I'm a big head nodder you know,
agreeing what people say, so thank you.
You know, that doesn't mean I wanna becalled on, but I'll, I'll, no, no, no.
Happy.
Have you, happy to.
(07:01):
I mean, I think a big thingis that a lot of people.
Know it's 20, late 2022 chat,GPT, and you know, really 2023.
Everybody says, oh my.
It's, it's definitely this new form ofit with, you know, generative ai, ai
and this idea that, oh, it can create,do creative content and, and it can,
(07:23):
and there are so many possibilities.
But if we go back, I mean, AIhas been around, I. You know,
for, for quite some time.
And, and now I'll really date myselftoo, saying, you know, I used to work
in digital agencies, like kind of atthe beginning of the internet, and
so much of what we were doing wasdata-driven marketing and looking at how
do different campaigns work and perform.
(07:45):
And for that matter, using machinelearning to essentially help us have
better segmentation of customers, helpus better understand which content,
you know, which ads to be served.
Two different segments, and then lookingat the attribution models around those.
And so there's, there's just like one.
One part of the premise is that AI hasbeen around and a big part of marketing
(08:11):
for a long time, and now it's just evenmore so, it's just amped up in many other
ways and it's truly baked into things.
And in our industry where you can't usesome of those data-driven tools like
programmatic media, you can a littlebit, but but definitely so many of our,
people in our industry or companiesare really collecting first party data
(08:33):
and really building up their emaildatabases to really have this sustained.
Connection and relationshipand communication streams
with their customers.
And we see a lot of AI is already bakedinto the tools that allow us to do that.
So for instance, in Klaviyo andHubSpot there's a lot of AI already
in there, so I'll just say that.
(08:54):
I think that's just another.
Misconception is that AI equals generativeai and there's much more to it now that
creates a whole host of other pro otherissues and challenges for us as marketers.
But I think Justice Jennifer saidthat education to the public to say.
Or to the industry to say thatthere, there's a lot more to
(09:16):
it than just what the hype is.
The hype is real and it's amazing,but there's a long foundation of
marketing using these sorts of tools.
Good point.
What do you think, Josh?
I think that anytime there'ssomething new, everybody gets
all fired up and they think, wow,this is gonna wreck the industry.
(09:37):
Wow, this is gonna makethe industry better.
Wow.
Like the fact is we're allgonna need to use the new tools
because they're the new tools.
Like when computers were implementedover typewriters, guess what?
You had to become a computer user.
Like it's part of life and you just.
You use that, Jennifer, you usethe terminology increase output.
That's how we use AI today.
We increase output and sometimes we get alittle bit better quality because of it.
(10:00):
Because maybe you know, I'm thinkingjust like around content production very
specifically on this, but like when wewere doing everything manually, there
were times where it's like, there'sa good enough, there's a good enough.
You know, like that's pretty good.
That's, that's about right.
That's about what we wanted.
But when you can go with I AI withless time, you can tune a few things
and you can get a little bit moreout of it with a little less time.
(10:23):
And so the way we we're lookingat these tools is like, we're not
replacing anything with 'em, butwe're gonna increase our output.
And we're gonna expect a higherquality deliverable based on the
fact that we have better tools now.
And so that's just theway we're looking at it.
It's a tool.
And we're gonna use that toolbecause it applies to the business.
It applies to every business by the way.
(10:44):
Yeah.
And so it's, you know, it's not marketing.
It's every piece of the business is, isgoing to interact with some level of ai.
And so it's just another toolthat we have to get good at.
And so that's the way we're looking at it.
Increase output.
Expect a little higher qualityout of our final deliverables,
whatever those might be.
And, and that could even justbe tailored marketing approach.
(11:05):
Like, you know, like where you referencedKristen, like, I, I need to segment this
marketing effort toward that consumerpinpoint, like dialed to the fine detail.
Great, let's use ai.
Let's fine tune it.
Let's dig in.
Or maybe that would've taken ahundred hours before, now it's.
Now it's three.
And we can use real dataand dig through it faster.
(11:26):
So it's not magic.
I don't look at it as magic.
It's just another tool we get to use.
Yeah, think that's a good point.
Yeah.
Good point.
So how do you balance efficiency gains,which is kind of a little bit about.
The input from AI with the needto maintain human creativity
and strategic thinking.
(11:48):
I think you guys have touched on thata little bit, but do you guys have any
specific examples that, I don't know.
I, you, you probablyhave a better example.
I'm thinking press releases,social media posts, right?
You can't just put stuff into AIlike and then not check it because.
Sometimes it vomits out garbage.
(12:09):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yes.
If you don't mind, this is Kristen.
I'll jump in to that.
I mean, that's one thing that,that I think is so interesting.
I mean, there, there, it's amazingthe efficiency that you can, or the
possibilities as Josh said, you know,definitely refining content, you
know, possibly creating content and.
(12:29):
But there's something to be said thatjust because you can doesn't mean that
it's gonna be the, the best output.
And, and one of the things that I thinkis, you know, every brand should be
experimenting with creating their own GPT,you know, really in their brand voice,
because that truly can save so much timewhen it comes to, I mean, 'cause we're
(12:49):
in an industry that devours content.
They're like, we needmore, we need more content.
And so.
Check you know, using AI can trulyhelp us, you know, have a means to
produce more on-brand content, you know,whether it's like copy for social or
whether it's, you know, creating emails.
And it can also help us createcontent calendars, you know, and
(13:12):
really keep us all on track, but.
It then goes back to this idea of, okay,so we can have more and more efficiency,
but is it gonna be the right kind ofcontent or at the right timing that's
truly gonna resonate with our customers?
So just because we can and produce so muchmore, you know, volume doesn't necessarily
mean that it's gonna be the right quality.
(13:34):
And so like the role of the CMOreally needs to be, the fund?
Do we know the brand fundamentals?
Do we know how ourproduct is differentiated?
Do we know what our customers need?
We need, if we're gonna build our ownGPT, for instance, to help output,
you know, con copy, we need to beable to train it so that it has
(13:55):
the correct you know, guidelines.
We need to be able to cur,you know, train it and curate
then the output so that then.
The, the content coming out is actuallysomething that resonates with our end
customers or grows that relationship.
So you could end up with, justas you said, shaylee, like a
lot of garbage and garbage out.
(14:16):
You could end up with a, a sea ofcontent that's not differentiated and
doesn't resonate with, with somebody.
And that could be that, that, thatkeeps our jobs in place, you know,
so that keeps, that will keep us all
working and shepherding brands and,and bringing products to market.
Yeah.
(14:36):
Yeah.
I actually look at ai in this regardas like a new team member that's a
rockstar, but we need to steer 'em, right?
Yeah.
And so like, yeah, we got someone new.
They're super, super sharp.
Awesome.
But left alone, they don't know the brand.
They don't know our people,they don't know the customer.
They only know what they've beentaught and we are to teach it.
(14:57):
And so like when I, when I lookat the tools, I'm going, rockstar.
Got it.
Let's make sure we feed it theright stuff and let's make sure.
We're over the shoulder a little bit.
Not necessarily micromanage, but beforeI drop anything to the world that AI has
kicked out, like, let's, let's set someguardrails and let's set some review
(15:18):
time to make sure it does truly align.
Like do a gut check.
Does that feel like us?
Does that feel like the brand?
Like if it doesn't, then thatwe gotta get back to yeah.
Training the tools, making sure thatthey understand what we're trying to ask.
And some of that just becomes, I need to.
Send better prompts.
I need to, I need to be betterat using the tools, right?
(15:40):
Because that's a big part of it too.
The same tool.
If I ask it to, to do something acouple different ways, I'm gonna
get different results, right?
And so you know, it's a workingrelationship, just like a
rockstar team member would be.
And so just looking at it like that,it's, again, it's not something new.
It's like we've hiredgreat people before, right?
And they, we needed to steer thattalent in the direction that we wanted.
(16:02):
AI's pretty similar.
This is Jennifer just jumping in.
I, I, I feel like we could go down arabbit hole with this one specific topic,
but Shaylene and I were talking before wejumped on the podcast about our industry.
Specifically there are a lot ofbrands out there that really are
(16:22):
suffering from lack of quality andbrand consistency to begin with.
Yeah.
So
you add in this AI elementand it becomes a little scary.
So, you know, anybody that'sout there listening that
wanted to learn more about ai.
My suggestion is get your house inorder first before you introduce the ai.
These are all the thingsguys were just talking about.
You know, establish your foundation.
(16:42):
Develop a brand style guide.
Clearly define your brandessence, define your customers.
Know your archetype, know yourpersonality and voice, and stay
on course with your brand Compass.
I know you know Kristen, you probablyand Josh as well, you've probably talked
to brands out there and I have certainlywhere one of the first questions I ask
(17:05):
them is, do you know who your customer is?
And the answer is no.
Which is terrifying.
Yeah, terrifying.
So, you know, you have to have thesebuilding blocks in place before you
ai and usually, you know, Josh's word.
Then you have the guardrailsset up when introducing ai.
(17:29):
You know, AI doesn't have emotionor empathy or understand those
human behavioral traits, but thecomprehensive brand style guide
you're gonna be able to control andthose aspects that AI simply can't.
Just to, just to, you know, I don't meanto pile on so much, Jennifer, but I,
(17:49):
I mean, I couldn't, I I couldn't agreemore with everything you're saying.
I mean, I think it's so interestingbecause our industry is full of
people who are so passionate aboutour products, about our lifestyle,
about our communities, and it's, it'sinteresting, but there is sometimes
this disconnect of, you know.
(18:10):
For a business to know who is yourcustomer and or a business to know what
is our identity and how are we different?
How are we tapping into that, youknow, really passionate community.
And so then what ends up happening if youdon't have those fundamentals in place,
just as you're saying, I feel like, and.
You end up at the sea ofsame, you know everything.
(18:32):
A lot of things look the same.
A lot of times you even have the sameinfluencers working with different
companies, and that's okay becauseit's all part of a community.
But if we don't have those fundamentalsdefined, you end up with almost just.
It's just becomes noise in some ways.
And then you add this likesuper rockstar new team members.
(18:54):
Josh said, you know, AI, who'slike, I can make 50 of them.
You know, you're gonna end up, we'regonna end up with volumes of the same.
And and that's, yeah.
Then it just becomes even more noiseto try to, to cut through to, to
really connect with the community.
You know, I feel like it'sworth making One more point.
(19:15):
I, you know, if you guysknow me, Shaylee knows me.
I am a research nerd.
When I don't know enough about something,I will research the heck out of it.
And I found this really awesome statistic.
I think it was an ad age where the websiteor the business care.com did a study.
(19:36):
They employed AI withintheir marketing team.
They didn't, they didn't go into specificswhat they were using, but I, I assume
it was a lot of content creation.
Probably a lot of, ofdata analytic type stuff.
Their study resulted in a 25%time savings, not for one person.
The team, a quarter team'stime was saved because of ai
(20:02):
And isn't that so that you can do morestrategic work, you can do higher level
work, because think of the mundanecrapola that AI can help you with,
and the idea is to use it, use thetool, and like you guys have said,
which I would never have thought of,training it in your brand voice, right?
Mm-hmm.
That way you're, you guys cando the higher level strategic
(20:25):
stuff and so can your team.
Yeah, I mean, that's what we're here for.
That's the good stuff.
Yeah.
That's great.
Good discussion.
So how do you think the CMO role willevolve as AI becomes more sophisticated?
Because.
What do you think yourteams are gonna look like?
You know, I, I would really liketo kind of be as specific as we can
(20:48):
and no one expects you guys to knowthe future, but a lot of people
are really concerned about this.
And, you know, there have been seminarsand conferences I've gone to where
they've said, if you don't embracethis, you're gonna be out of a job.
So I'd, I'd love your, your thoughtsas the leader of your departments.
'cause you all are, whatare your thoughts on that?
(21:11):
Yeah, I'll go first.
So I believe, and I am already startingto see this, that with more and
more, you mentioned the word noise.
I heard that come up a couple times in thelast like 30 seconds, minute and a half.
And I do think there's gonna bemore and more noise that doesn't
have a personality or brand.
Hmm.
Feel behind it online.
(21:32):
And I already trust internet anddigital content a little less
than I did a year or two ago,just because not all of it's real.
Some of it's just generated by somethat, and they're making them, most of
them today are saying something silly,so you sort of get it like, this isn't
real, but like, they're really good.
(21:52):
And so like, I, I truly believe that inthe next five years, I'm, I bet all my.
I bet all my cards on it that we'regonna be moving into a phase of
more experiential marketing andpeople want people connections.
And so where AI is gonna be pumping 30videos a day onto social channels, for
(22:14):
some brands that may or may not hit themark, they're just counting on volume.
I think the strongest brands aregonna have very clear messaging.
They're gonna invite their targetmarket to experiences for hands-on
touch feel, meet people and we're gonnamove a ton of product and influence
people face-to-face just like theold days, because people are gonna
(22:37):
trust the digital stuff less and less.
And so that's what I'm investingheavily in event focused marketing.
Face to face.
People trust people.
People trust machines way less whenthey don't know there's actually a
person behind it or it's not real.
And so I, I just think the moresophisticated AI becomes one, yeah,
we can tailor it, we can get it todo our brand messaging and all that
(22:58):
stuff, but people will be lookingfor those authentic connections.
And I think being really, reallygood event teams that are.
Putting on events that move theneedle with whatever it is we're
trying to move the needle on withthat client, for that client.
If we're really, really good atthat, I think, I think that's
gonna be, that that's what we'reinvesting in at F five through
(23:22):
facilities and event hosting stuff.
Like all of it, like we, we'veinvested a ton of time and energy
because we believe that's the futureis people wanna en engage with people.
Yeah.
Yeah, I agree.
I'll jump in next.
Yeah, it's Jennifer again.
I think it's a wake up call for CMOs.
(23:43):
You know, we in lead in anyleadership position in marketing.
I think there's skillsthat need to be improved.
You need to demonstrate those.
You need to understand, you know,what the implications of, of AI is.
What are the tools, whatare the opportunities?
And be able to sell it within yourcompany, because some of these are
(24:04):
expensive, so, you know, you need tobe able to prove ROI on these things.
But the one thing that I kept comingacross and call me a nerd, but the
one, the one bit that I came acrossyou just specifically related to
CMOs, is awareness of the ethical andlegal barriers when it comes to ai.
(24:24):
I mean, especially because, you know, themore we collect consumer data, the more
we enter into that danger zone of privacy.
So there's, there's certainly a lotof awareness that, that we need to
possess and educate ourselves on.
Yeah.
And this is Kristen.
I'll just
also, just, just echoa little bit that it.
(24:44):
I feel like for the CMO, itreally does have to become this.
Well, I love Jennifer how you said that.
It, it's a wake up call and I feel likethat in, in many, particularly in this
industry, you know, we're in a, we'reliterally right now, we're in a very soft
market and we know that there are macrofactors that, that contribute to that.
(25:06):
And so it's actually.
In addition to ai, we're just ina, in a time where, where we say
have the way we've been goingto market is it sustainable in
all different kinds of markets?
And it, and in those kinds of wake upmoments it's important to go back to
those fundamentals and then leverage newtools and, and new kind of techniques.
(25:30):
In a good way to make sure that we'redoing what we're trying to do, which is to
connect, you know, with the right segmentsof people, you know, grow relationships,
which then grow, you know, lead to sales.
And so I'm meandering a little bit,but I definitely, everything you said,
Jennifer, I completely agree with.
And Josh, I think that thereis something to be said of.
(25:51):
Certainly that in-person, what betterway to connect with somebody and for
them understand what your brand isor how wonderful your product is.
By being, being in person.
But you can compliment that withthat's data capture and then how to
deploy that or, or content captureand data, and how do you deploy that
(26:12):
over the long run to really strengthenand grow those relationships.
But as Jennifer said too, to do thatin a way where we're respecting.
The privacy of this community that'sincredibly passionate, but also
doesn't want necessarily things, youknow, broadcast all along the way.
So those were my musings andtrying to think of, you know,
(26:34):
what Josh, Jennifer were saying.
I mean, but just it, it's avery interesting inflection
point for all of us.
Yeah, and I think, you know, if youguys are all on, you know, social media
channels for your personal use, andI'm finding, you know, there's so much
discussion on LinkedIn back and forthabout AI and how some people hate it.
(26:57):
And I, I have resisted mydesire to comment as Josh put
it where I've wanted to say.
Like, oh, you can hate it all youwant, but the computer's here to stay.
Right.
Because I think you do have tomake peace and figure out how
you're going to become valuable.
(27:17):
So I have two more questionsthat I wanted to cover.
One is our fourth question that we chose.
And then I have one last questionfor the group, and it's not a trick
question, but something that's come upin discussion the last couple weeks with
marketing professionals and recruiting.
Departments effects.
So this other question is, what advicewould you give to marketing professionals
(27:40):
who feel threatened by AI advancements?
And I know you guys have addressedsome of this, and if you feel like
we've covered it, we can move on.
But I think this is a real thing.
It is.
Go ahead, Kristen.
Yeah, I would just say, I mean, thereis a, there's a, a, a Harvard professor
who says that, your job won't be, orI, now I'm gonna butcher her quote.
(28:03):
But essentially it's that yourjob isn't gonna be replaced by ai.
Right.
However, it may be replaced by aperson who knows how to use ai.
So I think that, so again,sorry that that's not the Yeah.
Verbatim quote, but, but I thinkthat's something that, you know.
All of us as marketers need to constantlybe learning and geeking out, like
(28:26):
Jennifer researching things over and over.
And I like to do that too.
And and so it's just, it's somethingthat the more we can understand how
these tools work, the better we can like.
Shepherd them, you know, throughour organizations to, to drive
efficiency and, you know, havebetter output for smaller teams.
But then also it really then getsus closer to, okay, how can we, what
(28:52):
have we not thought of that's possiblewith, you know, with this technology?
And that's always where like the reallyexciting stuff happens because we don't
even know truly what we could be doing.
But that has to be done by.
Marketers and people in a business whounderstand the uses, but also understand
their business and how to apply it.
(29:13):
I'll jump in.
It's Jennifer again.
My advice is, is don't feel threatened.
Embrace it.
Educate yourself.
A quick story.
I, about a year and a half ago, maybealmost two years ago I have this.
Amazing friend who knows who heis that is a CMO in our industry.
And we were having a conversationon the phone as we always do, and
(29:36):
he's like, look, look out for ai.
It is, it's radicallygonna change the space.
Those that adapt will succeed, standout from the competition like we've
talked about, and it's gonna leave therest of us behind who aren't adopting.
So, you know, my journey was,it, it piqued my interest.
I had zero comment.
I was like, okay.
Mm-hmm.
(29:57):
Cool, cool.
So then I started looking into itand you know, my first exposure
was in grad school writing papers.
There's this little button.
You know, you're, it's 3:00 AMand you're trying to finish that
marketing plan that's due tomorrow.
There's this cute little buttonthat's right there for you to push.
And I, and I considered it plagiarismat the time, and I thought, you
(30:20):
know, oh my gosh, I can't do this.
I'm gonna be caught.
It's cheating.
I really wanna make sure I learn.
But over time I started to understandand appreciate, you know, when you, when
you have a brain fart and you know, you,you're stuck and you're, you're trying
to come up with this great creative copy.
It's, it's like, you know,the, the adage that I use of my
team, there are no stupid ideas.
(30:40):
I. Throw something at it and itcomes back with, you know, all of
these different cool ideas thatyou can pluck from and then morph.
So there's these reallycool opportunities.
Dig into it, learn it, educateyourself, you know, go do your
homework, do some research, getinspired, find other company examples.
I mean, that's where myjourney started to go.
(31:02):
And it's now, it's one of thosethings that I'm looking at.
I can't, I'm not gonna live without it.
I can't, can't wait.
The next time when I get toimplement, you know, an AI tool
and see where I can take a brand.
Good feedback, Josh
Yeah, I'm just, I'm sick ofbeing scared of anything.
You know, like when it comes down to newtools or like new process software, like,
(31:23):
you know, I mean, I. I, I remember, I'm,I'm not that old, but even in business,
when I first was working for other people,it was like we wrote stuff down on paper.
It is like, you know, like a lothas changed in the last 20 years.
A lot more is gonna change in the next 20.
It's not something worthputting a wall up about.
It's like, okay.
These are the tools we use now.
Like let's get good at 'em.
(31:44):
If we're struggling, like, hey, let'sgrab someone on our teams or hire
someone with a competency that canhelp us understand the tools that
people are using that loves this stuff.
You know, I've got my leadvideographer is in AI nerd.
He loves this stuff, loves going into it.
He's like, look at what this can do.
And I'm like, that's pretty neat actually.
You know, I didn't know we could do thatinside of the software tools we already
(32:07):
use, you know, and so like I just.
Keep 'em open mind to it.
The last thing you wannado is shut it down.
'cause we're gonna stop growing if we do.
And just learn the tools.
This is part of how business isgonna be done over the next 20
years, so let's get good at it.
I think that's great advice.
That's really good advice, Josh.
So my last question is basedon real life interactions I've
(32:30):
had in the last couple weeks.
So I've had a couple calls recently.
One I have come to mind.
That a manufacturer in our industrydecided that they're cutting their
marketing budget, which blows mymind because the industry's soft.
I think that's counterintuitive,but what do I know?
I'm only recruiter and.
(32:52):
They have decided to eliminatetheir VP of marketing role, so VP of
Marketing and product Development.
Again, I can't grasp it, andthey're gonna do with a director.
Now, you and I both know they're probablygonna wanna try or hire a director
for a director's pay, but still thatperson's gonna get this whole list
(33:14):
of crapola that needs to be done.
Yep.
In my experience over the last many ahundred years, it seems like sales is
important, but, and Jennifer, you andI have talked about this, but marketing
and branding is the shining star.
(33:36):
Yeah.
To everything in my humble, again, onlyrecruiter, but as a business owner,
I can tell you that the majority ofmy investment goes towards marketing.
Good or bad.
That's my, that's where I spendthe money, because if no one knows
about me, how will they hire me?
And I think this is true ofthe products that we make and
(33:58):
the services that we offer.
So my question to the panel is.
Since I cannot articulate as nicelyas you, I would love to know why
you think or don't think thatmarketing budgets should be cut
during a soft period in our industry.
(34:19):
To me, it seems counterintuitive.
If I'm wrong, please correct me,but I would like specifics as to
why that should or shouldn't happen.
Knock yourselves out.
Okay.
Sounds good.
Well, I, I'll tell you onethat I, I have used in the last
couple of weeks and it's real.
And you know, from running a business, Iknow that it, it's actually how it works.
(34:42):
And so like many in a softmarket, many many clients and.
Not our clients, hopefully but manyfolks will be cutting marketing budgets.
They just will.
And so if we don't and our clientsdon't, there are dollars being spent.
Yeah.
The market's a little softer,but we want as many of those
dollars spent with us as possible.
(35:03):
And so if half of the marketgoes quiet and we're out there
still repping the brand mm-hmm.
Still part of the community, stilldoing what we've always done.
Now all of a sudden we get market share.
You know what happens whenthe market gets strong again?
We've still got market share.
And so like the last thing weever wanna do is get quiet when
(35:24):
we're hurting a little bit.
Because when things are good,we're gonna be quiet then too.
Like people are, people aregonna be, oh, you're back, huh?
Like, people must be spending money.
Like you don't want that.
Like you just wanna be consistent.
And so I think maybe.
Maybe you don't need to double down rightnow, but maybe you just keep consistent.
Yes.
And you keep your messaging out there.
And when you do that,you gain market share.
(35:46):
'cause everybody else is quiet and it'sreally good for your long-term business.
And so that's the waythat we're looking at it.
That's the way I, I run itat our companies is just,
we run consistent marketing.
It's our job to be presentin the industries we serve.
And if we're not, we're failing.
That's the way I look.
What a good way to.
What a good way to express that,because in my experience, if I'm
(36:10):
not at those trade shows in personmeeting, people being in front of
people, it's real easy to be forgotten.
Same thing is true of great brands.
If you're not out there in frontof people, that there's so much
noise as you guys have pointed out.
What do you guys think about that?
Jennifer or Kristen?
I, I think it's just Jennifer again.
I think, you know.
Kristen talked about this earlier.
(36:32):
From a competitive standpoint,it's your opportunity to stand out.
Don't be a sheep, don't dowhat everybody else is doing.
They pull back in thesummertime when it's soft.
You know, here's youropportunity to gain market share.
Like Josh said, why wouldn'tyou want that opportunity?
But sadly, that's what happens.
But furthermore, when you thinkabout some of the applications that
we have running in marketing, itneeds that level of consistency.
(36:56):
You know, take SEO for example.
SEO takes time and it needs.
Consistency.
So if you're pulling back on stufflike that, you're just shooting
yourself in the foot, no pun intended.
I mean, that's my point of view isI have never really understood you.
We sit here and we watch it and it's,it just makes me wanna pull my hair out.
Don't do that.
(37:16):
and This is Kristen.
I mean, I, I think just a, another,another, you know, as Jennifer
said before, like a wake up moment.
Like, so maybe it's, I, I can understandthat need for, you know, this, this
perception that, okay, we've been spendingall this money and now we're in the soft
market and nothing's moving the needle.
(37:37):
So, but the other wayto, to turn that another.
Way to look at that and isto say, well, are we spending
the money on the right things?
So maybe the way that we've beengoing to market, you know, works
great when you're in a, in a, youknow, in a healthy vital market.
But maybe when thingsare soft, we need to.
(37:58):
Again, as we've said so many times on thispodcast, go back to the fundamentals and
say, okay, do we really know what we'resaying and how we're going to market?
And maybe we should reallocate someof that spending to, you know, for
instance, as Josh said, you know,in-person experiences so that then we're.
Capturing content in a more authenticway and serving that back to people.
(38:22):
You know, this might be the opporyou, you definitely never wanna go
dark, but there is something to besaid that maybe it's, it becomes
more of a strategic marketing mix.
Question as opposed to just a spendquestion and the spend, you know, it
also, it does, I mean, maybe it's abias of mine, but it does feel that so
(38:42):
much of our industry is just about push,push, push, push, and then reduce price.
Reduce price.
Reduce price that's gonna movethe needle and, and that's not,
so how do you go back and say.
Okay, how do we pull people to us?
And maybe that is more through in-personexperiences and yes, maybe compliment that
(39:03):
with some price reductions or promotions,but make the promotions have life and
have fun, and not just assume thateverybody is just buying based on price.
Right.
I I, I, I love that.
But I, I also, I think that, youknow, you were going down this
path of there's not as much noise.
(39:24):
When your competitors are pulling back,take that opportunity to test, you know?
Yeah.
It's absolutely, it's a great opportunitywhen there's not as much noise going on.
So, you know, utilize your,and, and, and test to make sure
that everything is working.
If something's not working, here'syour opportunity to, to, to test
it out, to see something else.
So I think, you know, it's, it's,it's an see it as an opportunity.
(39:46):
Not necessarily, I mean, it is afrustration for us because it, it
happens to all of us, but take theopportunity to really kind of focus.
Yeah.
Great input you guys.
Thank you.
Well, I can't thank you enough.
You guys are amazing and I, I hopeeveryone who's listening or watching
this video gets in touch with each ofthese professionals because each of
(40:08):
them offers a different strength andobviously they care very much about
the industry and their businesses, so Iwould encourage you to reach out to them.
And if.
For any reason you cannot find thelinks on our website or you need to
reach 'em, you can always call meand I'll put you in touch with them.
But thank you everyone for being onthis first panel, the CMO discussion.
(40:30):
I, this is a big check the box for me.
I've been wanting to support theorganization this way, or the
industry this way, so thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
That
was awesome.
Thank so much.
That's this that's gonna wrapup this issue of the Head
Hunters Northwest Podcast.
We look forward to having allof our listeners participate
(40:51):
and listen in the next one.
Thank you.
Okay.
Welcome to HeadHunters NW Podcast.
If you are listening to this, this isand don't have the benefit of the video.
Today we have three guests.
This is my first panel podcastthat I've been planning and
wanting to do for well over a year.
So this is just, I have three Guinea pigsactually, I guess is what you would say.
(00:23):
So, um.
to know that is listening on iHeartRadioor Apple Podcast or Spotify that
we're gonna try really hard to let youknow who's answering the questions.
But this is what I wouldcall our CMO podcast.
So our chief marketing officers, each oneof these professionals are exceptional
(00:49):
in their own right, and this podcast isabout AI and how it affects marketing.
So we started this discussion off withthe thought of taking ai and I asked AI
to give me a list of questions and wegot a huge amount of questions from ai
(01:11):
and then we narrowed it down to the fewquestions we thought that the other humans
would want to know and discuss about ai.
So bear with us because we have thebenefit of, claude by Anthropic that
has helped us with our subject, butI'm thrilled we have humans with
real life experience to answer these.
(01:33):
So stay on the line if you wanna learnabout AI and what our chief marketing
officers in the outdoor industry andshooting sports think about this.
So I wanna introduce Jennifer Tuttle.
Jennifer is one of our panelists.
She has three decades of experiencein marketing with the past 10 plus
(01:55):
years in the firearms industry.
She holds an undergraduate degreein psychology and a master's
degree in marketing, focusing onthe relationship between consumer
behavior and brand strategy.
That's.
Pretty important colleaguesrecognize her ability to address
complex projects and her willingnessto be hands-on in her work.
(02:16):
I can attest to that.
I have seen Jennifer's work inresponse to the need for high level
project assistance in the industry.
She recently began offeringfractional marketing services
independently through her companycalled Raven Spire Consultancy.
And we will have, all of ourpanelists links so you can access
(02:39):
them and hire them and talk to themand tap them for their expertise.
That will all be available onour website and also on anywhere
you find this information posted.
My next guess is Josh.
Oh dear Josh, I forgot to ask youto help me pronounce your last name.
Can you do that?
Yeah.
It's Froelich (fray-lik).
(03:00):
Froelich.
Oh, yes.
I would've butchered that.
Thank you, Josh.
Josh is a business owner and aserial entrepreneur, and he has
a passion for growing businesses.
Josh focuses on growing his companiesand helping clients grow their
businesses through quality marketingstrategies and strategic sales efforts.
With a background in the tech industry,he is no stranger to all things tech
(03:24):
as it relates to running a business.
And you can find hiswork at f5productions.com.
And our third panelist is KristenMarlow, who I'm so pleased to introduce.
Really Kristen has helped me putthis together, and without her
encouragement, I probably couldn'thave gotten this panel together.
So thanks to Kristen.
She introduced me to Josh, so I'mjust thrilled to have her join us.
(03:48):
She's the chief marketing officerwith 25 years experience in strategic
brand and performance marketing.
Including specialized expertisein the firearms industry.
She notably served as CMO forstaccato, where she led the strategic
rebrand, rebrand from STI to andspearheaded the company's digital
(04:10):
transformation by launching theirdirect to consumer gun eCommerce.
Well, that was a whopper project.
Experience includes leadership positionsin global digital PR agencies And
working with brands like Visa, T. RowePrice and Anthem Blue Cross Blue Shield.
(04:32):
On a personal note, Kristen is a mom toa high schooler and an active member of
the Daughters of the American Revolution.
And you can find Kristen on LinkedIn.
We're gonna make sure weput her link in there.
She has amazing experienceand everyone in their right.
So thank you, all of you.
For being on this podcast.
(04:52):
So let's get started with ourfirst question, and I'd like for
you each to kind of chime in.
Where do you see the biggest gapbetween AI hype and actual practical
application and marketing today?
Who wants to be the Guinea pig?
To start, I'll jump
in.
This is this is Jennifer.
I think there are two misleadingconcerns from AI hype.
(05:16):
The first is that marketing departmentsor jobs can be replaced by ai.
The second is that AI is a functionyou can turn on and not have to manage.
But the reality is neither is really true.
AI and marketing must be amanaged collaboration that cannot
take out the human element.
(05:36):
It should be seen as an essentialdriver of marketing efficiency and brand
performance that will help increase theoutput of marketing teams, granting them
more time for creativity and innovation.
Those two things that wenever have enough time for.
Rather than seeing AI as a.Threat to your job based on its
abilities to replace human efforts.
(05:57):
Instead, we really must seeAI as a required skillset to
be competitive in your role.
According to studies performed last yearby ad age, 91% of marketers reporting
the use of AI in their rooms right now.
With 69% saying it will create morejob opportunities versus replace them.
So I think in summary to thisquestion, we need to do a better job
(06:20):
of educating ourselves on ai and thedirect benefits it has on marketing.
Yeah, good points, Jennifer.
And that's, it's a scary topic.
I mean, it's definitely a topic morethan, more than several times a week.
I see posts on saying, oh, AI is bad, orAI is this, or it's gonna eliminate jobs.
(06:41):
I'm glad to hear you say that.
I. Yeah.
Kristen, you were shaking your head yes.
In agreement.
What are your thoughts on this?
Yeah, I, I mean, well, you should justknow I'm a big head nodder you know,
agreeing what people say, so thank you.
You know, that doesn't mean I wanna becalled on, but I'll, I'll, no, no, no.
Happy.
Have you, happy to.
(07:01):
I mean, I think a big thingis that a lot of people.
Know it's 20, late 2022 chat,GPT, and you know, really 2023.
Everybody says, oh my.
It's, it's definitely this new form ofit with, you know, generative ai, ai
and this idea that, oh, it can create,do creative content and, and it can,
(07:23):
and there are so many possibilities.
But if we go back, I mean, AIhas been around, I. You know,
for, for quite some time.
And, and now I'll really date myselftoo, saying, you know, I used to work
in digital agencies, like kind of atthe beginning of the internet, and
so much of what we were doing wasdata-driven marketing and looking at how
do different campaigns work and perform.
(07:45):
And for that matter, using machinelearning to essentially help us have
better segmentation of customers, helpus better understand which content,
you know, which ads to be served.
Two different segments, and then lookingat the attribution models around those.
And so there's, there's just like one.
One part of the premise is that AI hasbeen around and a big part of marketing
(08:11):
for a long time, and now it's just evenmore so, it's just amped up in many other
ways and it's truly baked into things.
And in our industry where you can't usesome of those data-driven tools like
programmatic media, you can a littlebit, but but definitely so many of our,
people in our industry or companiesare really collecting first party data
(08:33):
and really building up their emaildatabases to really have this sustained.
Connection and relationshipand communication streams
with their customers.
And we see a lot of AI is already bakedinto the tools that allow us to do that.
So for instance, in Klaviyo andHubSpot there's a lot of AI already
in there, so I'll just say that.
(08:54):
I think that's just another.
Misconception is that AI equals generativeai and there's much more to it now that
creates a whole host of other pro otherissues and challenges for us as marketers.
But I think Justice Jennifer saidthat education to the public to say.
Or to the industry to say thatthere, there's a lot more to
(09:16):
it than just what the hype is.
The hype is real and it's amazing,but there's a long foundation of
marketing using these sorts of tools.
Good point.
What do you think, Josh?
I think that anytime there'ssomething new, everybody gets
all fired up and they think, wow,this is gonna wreck the industry.
(09:37):
Wow, this is gonna makethe industry better.
Wow.
Like the fact is we're allgonna need to use the new tools
because they're the new tools.
Like when computers were implementedover typewriters, guess what?
You had to become a computer user.
Like it's part of life and you just.
You use that, Jennifer, you usethe terminology increase output.
That's how we use AI today.
We increase output and sometimes we get alittle bit better quality because of it.
(10:00):
Because maybe you know, I'm thinkingjust like around content production very
specifically on this, but like when wewere doing everything manually, there
were times where it's like, there'sa good enough, there's a good enough.
You know, like that's pretty good.
That's, that's about right.
That's about what we wanted.
But when you can go with I AI withless time, you can tune a few things
and you can get a little bit moreout of it with a little less time.
(10:23):
And so the way we we're lookingat these tools is like, we're not
replacing anything with 'em, butwe're gonna increase our output.
And we're gonna expect a higherquality deliverable based on the
fact that we have better tools now.
And so that's just theway we're looking at it.
It's a tool.
And we're gonna use that toolbecause it applies to the business.
It applies to every business by the way.
(10:44):
Yeah.
And so it's, you know, it's not marketing.
It's every piece of the business is, isgoing to interact with some level of ai.
And so it's just another toolthat we have to get good at.
And so that's the way we're looking at it.
Increase output.
Expect a little higher qualityout of our final deliverables,
whatever those might be.
And, and that could even justbe tailored marketing approach.
(11:05):
Like, you know, like where you referencedKristen, like, I, I need to segment this
marketing effort toward that consumerpinpoint, like dialed to the fine detail.
Great, let's use ai.
Let's fine tune it.
Let's dig in.
Or maybe that would've taken ahundred hours before, now it's.
Now it's three.
And we can use real dataand dig through it faster.
(11:26):
So it's not magic.
I don't look at it as magic.
It's just another tool we get to use.
Yeah, think that's a good point.
Yeah.
Good point.
So how do you balance efficiency gains,which is kind of a little bit about.
The input from AI with the needto maintain human creativity
and strategic thinking.
(11:48):
I think you guys have touched on thata little bit, but do you guys have any
specific examples that, I don't know.
I, you, you probablyhave a better example.
I'm thinking press releases,social media posts, right?
You can't just put stuff into AIlike and then not check it because.
Sometimes it vomits out garbage.
(12:09):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yes.
If you don't mind, this is Kristen.
I'll jump in to that.
I mean, that's one thing that,that I think is so interesting.
I mean, there, there, it's amazingthe efficiency that you can, or the
possibilities as Josh said, you know,definitely refining content, you
know, possibly creating content and.
(12:29):
But there's something to be said thatjust because you can doesn't mean that
it's gonna be the, the best output.
And, and one of the things that I thinkis, you know, every brand should be
experimenting with creating their own GPT,you know, really in their brand voice,
because that truly can save so much timewhen it comes to, I mean, 'cause we're
(12:49):
in an industry that devours content.
They're like, we needmore, we need more content.
And so.
Check you know, using AI can trulyhelp us, you know, have a means to
produce more on-brand content, you know,whether it's like copy for social or
whether it's, you know, creating emails.
And it can also help us createcontent calendars, you know, and
(13:12):
really keep us all on track, but.
It then goes back to this idea of, okay,so we can have more and more efficiency,
but is it gonna be the right kind ofcontent or at the right timing that's
truly gonna resonate with our customers?
So just because we can and produce so muchmore, you know, volume doesn't necessarily
mean that it's gonna be the right quality.
(13:34):
And so like the role of the CMOreally needs to be, the fund?
Do we know the brand fundamentals?
Do we know how ourproduct is differentiated?
Do we know what our customers need?
We need, if we're gonna build our ownGPT, for instance, to help output,
you know, con copy, we need to beable to train it so that it has
(13:55):
the correct you know, guidelines.
We need to be able to cur,you know, train it and curate
then the output so that then.
The, the content coming out is actuallysomething that resonates with our end
customers or grows that relationship.
So you could end up with, justas you said, shaylee, like a
lot of garbage and garbage out.
(14:16):
You could end up with a, a sea ofcontent that's not differentiated and
doesn't resonate with, with somebody.
And that could be that, that, thatkeeps our jobs in place, you know,
so that keeps, that will keep us all
working and shepherding brands and,and bringing products to market.
Yeah.
(14:36):
Yeah.
I actually look at ai in this regardas like a new team member that's a
rockstar, but we need to steer 'em, right?
Yeah.
And so like, yeah, we got someone new.
They're super, super sharp.
Awesome.
But left alone, they don't know the brand.
They don't know our people,they don't know the customer.
They only know what they've beentaught and we are to teach it.
(14:57):
And so like when I, when I lookat the tools, I'm going, rockstar.
Got it.
Let's make sure we feed it theright stuff and let's make sure.
We're over the shoulder a little bit.
Not necessarily micromanage, but beforeI drop anything to the world that AI has
kicked out, like, let's, let's set someguardrails and let's set some review
(15:18):
time to make sure it does truly align.
Like do a gut check.
Does that feel like us?
Does that feel like the brand?
Like if it doesn't, then thatwe gotta get back to yeah.
Training the tools, making sure thatthey understand what we're trying to ask.
And some of that just becomes, I need to.
Send better prompts.
I need to, I need to be betterat using the tools, right?
(15:40):
Because that's a big part of it too.
The same tool.
If I ask it to, to do something acouple different ways, I'm gonna
get different results, right?
And so you know, it's a workingrelationship, just like a
rockstar team member would be.
And so just looking at it like that,it's, again, it's not something new.
It's like we've hiredgreat people before, right?
And they, we needed to steer thattalent in the direction that we wanted.
(16:02):
AI's pretty similar.
This is Jennifer just jumping in.
I, I, I feel like we could go down arabbit hole with this one specific topic,
but Shaylene and I were talking before wejumped on the podcast about our industry.
Specifically there are a lot ofbrands out there that really are
(16:22):
suffering from lack of quality andbrand consistency to begin with.
Yeah.
So
you add in this AI elementand it becomes a little scary.
So, you know, anybody that'sout there listening that
wanted to learn more about ai.
My suggestion is get your house inorder first before you introduce the ai.
These are all the thingsguys were just talking about.
You know, establish your foundation.
(16:42):
Develop a brand style guide.
Clearly define your brandessence, define your customers.
Know your archetype, know yourpersonality and voice, and stay
on course with your brand Compass.
I know you know Kristen, you probablyand Josh as well, you've probably talked
to brands out there and I have certainlywhere one of the first questions I ask
(17:05):
them is, do you know who your customer is?
And the answer is no.
Which is terrifying.
Yeah, terrifying.
So, you know, you have to have thesebuilding blocks in place before you
ai and usually, you know, Josh's word.
Then you have the guardrailsset up when introducing ai.
(17:29):
You know, AI doesn't have emotionor empathy or understand those
human behavioral traits, but thecomprehensive brand style guide
you're gonna be able to control andthose aspects that AI simply can't.
Just to, just to, you know, I don't meanto pile on so much, Jennifer, but I,
(17:49):
I mean, I couldn't, I I couldn't agreemore with everything you're saying.
I mean, I think it's so interestingbecause our industry is full of
people who are so passionate aboutour products, about our lifestyle,
about our communities, and it's, it'sinteresting, but there is sometimes
this disconnect of, you know.
(18:10):
For a business to know who is yourcustomer and or a business to know what
is our identity and how are we different?
How are we tapping into that, youknow, really passionate community.
And so then what ends up happening if youdon't have those fundamentals in place,
just as you're saying, I feel like, and.
You end up at the sea ofsame, you know everything.
(18:32):
A lot of things look the same.
A lot of times you even have the sameinfluencers working with different
companies, and that's okay becauseit's all part of a community.
But if we don't have those fundamentalsdefined, you end up with almost just.
It's just becomes noise in some ways.
And then you add this likesuper rockstar new team members.
(18:54):
Josh said, you know, AI, who'slike, I can make 50 of them.
You know, you're gonna end up, we'regonna end up with volumes of the same.
And and that's, yeah.
Then it just becomes even more noiseto try to, to cut through to, to
really connect with the community.
You know, I feel like it'sworth making One more point.
(19:15):
I, you know, if you guysknow me, Shaylee knows me.
I am a research nerd.
When I don't know enough about something,I will research the heck out of it.
And I found this really awesome statistic.
I think it was an ad age where the websiteor the business care.com did a study.
(19:36):
They employed AI withintheir marketing team.
They didn't, they didn't go into specificswhat they were using, but I, I assume
it was a lot of content creation.
Probably a lot of, ofdata analytic type stuff.
Their study resulted in a 25%time savings, not for one person.
The team, a quarter team'stime was saved because of ai
(20:02):
And isn't that so that you can do morestrategic work, you can do higher level
work, because think of the mundanecrapola that AI can help you with,
and the idea is to use it, use thetool, and like you guys have said,
which I would never have thought of,training it in your brand voice, right?
Mm-hmm.
That way you're, you guys cando the higher level strategic
(20:25):
stuff and so can your team.
Yeah, I mean, that's what we're here for.
That's the good stuff.
Yeah.
That's great.
Good discussion.
So how do you think the CMO role willevolve as AI becomes more sophisticated?
Because.
What do you think yourteams are gonna look like?
You know, I, I would really liketo kind of be as specific as we can
(20:48):
and no one expects you guys to knowthe future, but a lot of people
are really concerned about this.
And, you know, there have been seminarsand conferences I've gone to where
they've said, if you don't embracethis, you're gonna be out of a job.
So I'd, I'd love your, your thoughtsas the leader of your departments.
'cause you all are, whatare your thoughts on that?
(21:11):
Yeah, I'll go first.
So I believe, and I am already startingto see this, that with more and
more, you mentioned the word noise.
I heard that come up a couple times in thelast like 30 seconds, minute and a half.
And I do think there's gonna bemore and more noise that doesn't
have a personality or brand.
Hmm.
Feel behind it online.
(21:32):
And I already trust internet anddigital content a little less
than I did a year or two ago,just because not all of it's real.
Some of it's just generated by somethat, and they're making them, most of
them today are saying something silly,so you sort of get it like, this isn't
real, but like, they're really good.
(21:52):
And so like, I, I truly believe that inthe next five years, I'm, I bet all my.
I bet all my cards on it that we'regonna be moving into a phase of
more experiential marketing andpeople want people connections.
And so where AI is gonna be pumping 30videos a day onto social channels, for
(22:14):
some brands that may or may not hit themark, they're just counting on volume.
I think the strongest brands aregonna have very clear messaging.
They're gonna invite their targetmarket to experiences for hands-on
touch feel, meet people and we're gonnamove a ton of product and influence
people face-to-face just like theold days, because people are gonna
(22:37):
trust the digital stuff less and less.
And so that's what I'm investingheavily in event focused marketing.
Face to face.
People trust people.
People trust machines way less whenthey don't know there's actually a
person behind it or it's not real.
And so I, I just think the moresophisticated AI becomes one, yeah,
we can tailor it, we can get it todo our brand messaging and all that
(22:58):
stuff, but people will be lookingfor those authentic connections.
And I think being really, reallygood event teams that are.
Putting on events that move theneedle with whatever it is we're
trying to move the needle on withthat client, for that client.
If we're really, really good atthat, I think, I think that's
gonna be, that that's what we'reinvesting in at F five through
(23:22):
facilities and event hosting stuff.
Like all of it, like we, we'veinvested a ton of time and energy
because we believe that's the futureis people wanna en engage with people.
Yeah.
Yeah, I agree.
I'll jump in next.
Yeah, it's Jennifer again.
I think it's a wake up call for CMOs.
(23:43):
You know, we in lead in anyleadership position in marketing.
I think there's skillsthat need to be improved.
You need to demonstrate those.
You need to understand, you know,what the implications of, of AI is.
What are the tools, whatare the opportunities?
And be able to sell it within yourcompany, because some of these are
(24:04):
expensive, so, you know, you need tobe able to prove ROI on these things.
But the one thing that I kept comingacross and call me a nerd, but the
one, the one bit that I came acrossyou just specifically related to
CMOs, is awareness of the ethical andlegal barriers when it comes to ai.
(24:24):
I mean, especially because, you know, themore we collect consumer data, the more
we enter into that danger zone of privacy.
So there's, there's certainly a lotof awareness that, that we need to
possess and educate ourselves on.
Yeah.
And this is Kristen.
I'll just
also, just, just echoa little bit that it.
(24:44):
I feel like for the CMO, itreally does have to become this.
Well, I love Jennifer how you said that.
It, it's a wake up call and I feel likethat in, in many, particularly in this
industry, you know, we're in a, we'reliterally right now, we're in a very soft
market and we know that there are macrofactors that, that contribute to that.
(25:06):
And so it's actually.
In addition to ai, we're just ina, in a time where, where we say
have the way we've been goingto market is it sustainable in
all different kinds of markets?
And it, and in those kinds of wake upmoments it's important to go back to
those fundamentals and then leverage newtools and, and new kind of techniques.
(25:30):
In a good way to make sure that we'redoing what we're trying to do, which is to
connect, you know, with the right segmentsof people, you know, grow relationships,
which then grow, you know, lead to sales.
And so I'm meandering a little bit,but I definitely, everything you said,
Jennifer, I completely agree with.
And Josh, I think that thereis something to be said of.
(25:51):
Certainly that in-person, what betterway to connect with somebody and for
them understand what your brand isor how wonderful your product is.
By being, being in person.
But you can compliment that withthat's data capture and then how to
deploy that or, or content captureand data, and how do you deploy that
(26:12):
over the long run to really strengthenand grow those relationships.
But as Jennifer said too, to do thatin a way where we're respecting.
The privacy of this community that'sincredibly passionate, but also
doesn't want necessarily things, youknow, broadcast all along the way.
So those were my musings andtrying to think of, you know,
(26:34):
what Josh, Jennifer were saying.
I mean, but just it, it's avery interesting inflection
point for all of us.
Yeah, and I think, you know, if youguys are all on, you know, social media
channels for your personal use, andI'm finding, you know, there's so much
discussion on LinkedIn back and forthabout AI and how some people hate it.
(26:57):
And I, I have resisted mydesire to comment as Josh put
it where I've wanted to say.
Like, oh, you can hate it all youwant, but the computer's here to stay.
Right.
Because I think you do have tomake peace and figure out how
you're going to become valuable.
(27:17):
So I have two more questionsthat I wanted to cover.
One is our fourth question that we chose.
And then I have one last questionfor the group, and it's not a trick
question, but something that's come upin discussion the last couple weeks with
marketing professionals and recruiting.
Departments effects.
So this other question is, what advicewould you give to marketing professionals
(27:40):
who feel threatened by AI advancements?
And I know you guys have addressedsome of this, and if you feel like
we've covered it, we can move on.
But I think this is a real thing.
It is.
Go ahead, Kristen.
Yeah, I would just say, I mean, thereis a, there's a, a, a Harvard professor
who says that, your job won't be, orI, now I'm gonna butcher her quote.
(28:03):
But essentially it's that yourjob isn't gonna be replaced by ai.
Right.
However, it may be replaced by aperson who knows how to use ai.
So I think that, so again,sorry that that's not the Yeah.
Verbatim quote, but, but I thinkthat's something that, you know.
All of us as marketers need to constantlybe learning and geeking out, like
(28:26):
Jennifer researching things over and over.
And I like to do that too.
And and so it's just, it's somethingthat the more we can understand how
these tools work, the better we can like.
Shepherd them, you know, throughour organizations to, to drive
efficiency and, you know, havebetter output for smaller teams.
But then also it really then getsus closer to, okay, how can we, what
(28:52):
have we not thought of that's possiblewith, you know, with this technology?
And that's always where like the reallyexciting stuff happens because we don't
even know truly what we could be doing.
But that has to be done by.
Marketers and people in a business whounderstand the uses, but also understand
their business and how to apply it.
(29:13):
I'll jump in.
It's Jennifer again.
My advice is, is don't feel threatened.
Embrace it.
Educate yourself.
A quick story.
I, about a year and a half ago, maybealmost two years ago I have this.
Amazing friend who knows who heis that is a CMO in our industry.
And we were having a conversationon the phone as we always do, and
(29:36):
he's like, look, look out for ai.
It is, it's radicallygonna change the space.
Those that adapt will succeed, standout from the competition like we've
talked about, and it's gonna leave therest of us behind who aren't adopting.
So, you know, my journey was,it, it piqued my interest.
I had zero comment.
I was like, okay.
Mm-hmm.
(29:57):
Cool, cool.
So then I started looking into itand you know, my first exposure
was in grad school writing papers.
There's this little button.
You know, you're, it's 3:00 AMand you're trying to finish that
marketing plan that's due tomorrow.
There's this cute little buttonthat's right there for you to push.
And I, and I considered it plagiarismat the time, and I thought, you
(30:20):
know, oh my gosh, I can't do this.
I'm gonna be caught.
It's cheating.
I really wanna make sure I learn.
But over time I started to understandand appreciate, you know, when you, when
you have a brain fart and you know, you,you're stuck and you're, you're trying
to come up with this great creative copy.
It's, it's like, you know,the, the adage that I use of my
team, there are no stupid ideas.
(30:40):
I. Throw something at it and itcomes back with, you know, all of
these different cool ideas thatyou can pluck from and then morph.
So there's these reallycool opportunities.
Dig into it, learn it, educateyourself, you know, go do your
homework, do some research, getinspired, find other company examples.
I mean, that's where myjourney started to go.
(31:02):
And it's now, it's one of thosethings that I'm looking at.
I can't, I'm not gonna live without it.
I can't, can't wait.
The next time when I get toimplement, you know, an AI tool
and see where I can take a brand.
Good feedback, Josh
Yeah, I'm just, I'm sick ofbeing scared of anything.
You know, like when it comes down to newtools or like new process software, like,
(31:23):
you know, I mean, I. I, I remember, I'm,I'm not that old, but even in business,
when I first was working for other people,it was like we wrote stuff down on paper.
It is like, you know, like a lothas changed in the last 20 years.
A lot more is gonna change in the next 20.
It's not something worthputting a wall up about.
It's like, okay.
These are the tools we use now.
Like let's get good at 'em.
(31:44):
If we're struggling, like, hey, let'sgrab someone on our teams or hire
someone with a competency that canhelp us understand the tools that
people are using that loves this stuff.
You know, I've got my leadvideographer is in AI nerd.
He loves this stuff, loves going into it.
He's like, look at what this can do.
And I'm like, that's pretty neat actually.
You know, I didn't know we could do thatinside of the software tools we already
(32:07):
use, you know, and so like I just.
Keep 'em open mind to it.
The last thing you wannado is shut it down.
'cause we're gonna stop growing if we do.
And just learn the tools.
This is part of how business isgonna be done over the next 20
years, so let's get good at it.
I think that's great advice.
That's really good advice, Josh.
So my last question is basedon real life interactions I've
(32:30):
had in the last couple weeks.
So I've had a couple calls recently.
One I have come to mind.
That a manufacturer in our industrydecided that they're cutting their
marketing budget, which blows mymind because the industry's soft.
I think that's counterintuitive,but what do I know?
I'm only recruiter and.
(32:52):
They have decided to eliminatetheir VP of marketing role, so VP of
Marketing and product Development.
Again, I can't grasp it, andthey're gonna do with a director.
Now, you and I both know they're probablygonna wanna try or hire a director
for a director's pay, but still thatperson's gonna get this whole list
(33:14):
of crapola that needs to be done.
Yep.
In my experience over the last many ahundred years, it seems like sales is
important, but, and Jennifer, you andI have talked about this, but marketing
and branding is the shining star.
(33:36):
Yeah.
To everything in my humble, again, onlyrecruiter, but as a business owner,
I can tell you that the majority ofmy investment goes towards marketing.
Good or bad.
That's my, that's where I spendthe money, because if no one knows
about me, how will they hire me?
And I think this is true ofthe products that we make and
(33:58):
the services that we offer.
So my question to the panel is.
Since I cannot articulate as nicelyas you, I would love to know why
you think or don't think thatmarketing budgets should be cut
during a soft period in our industry.
(34:19):
To me, it seems counterintuitive.
If I'm wrong, please correct me,but I would like specifics as to
why that should or shouldn't happen.
Knock yourselves out.
Okay.
Sounds good.
Well, I, I'll tell you onethat I, I have used in the last
couple of weeks and it's real.
And you know, from running a business, Iknow that it, it's actually how it works.
(34:42):
And so like many in a softmarket, many many clients and.
Not our clients, hopefully but manyfolks will be cutting marketing budgets.
They just will.
And so if we don't and our clientsdon't, there are dollars being spent.
Yeah.
The market's a little softer,but we want as many of those
dollars spent with us as possible.
(35:03):
And so if half of the marketgoes quiet and we're out there
still repping the brand mm-hmm.
Still part of the community, stilldoing what we've always done.
Now all of a sudden we get market share.
You know what happens whenthe market gets strong again?
We've still got market share.
And so like the last thing weever wanna do is get quiet when
(35:24):
we're hurting a little bit.
Because when things are good,we're gonna be quiet then too.
Like people are, people aregonna be, oh, you're back, huh?
Like, people must be spending money.
Like you don't want that.
Like you just wanna be consistent.
And so I think maybe.
Maybe you don't need to double down rightnow, but maybe you just keep consistent.
Yes.
And you keep your messaging out there.
And when you do that,you gain market share.
(35:46):
'cause everybody else is quiet and it'sreally good for your long-term business.
And so that's the waythat we're looking at it.
That's the way I, I run itat our companies is just,
we run consistent marketing.
It's our job to be presentin the industries we serve.
And if we're not, we're failing.
That's the way I look.
What a good way to.
What a good way to express that,because in my experience, if I'm
(36:10):
not at those trade shows in personmeeting, people being in front of
people, it's real easy to be forgotten.
Same thing is true of great brands.
If you're not out there in frontof people, that there's so much
noise as you guys have pointed out.
What do you guys think about that?
Jennifer or Kristen?
I, I think it's just Jennifer again.
I think, you know.
Kristen talked about this earlier.
(36:32):
From a competitive standpoint,it's your opportunity to stand out.
Don't be a sheep, don't dowhat everybody else is doing.
They pull back in thesummertime when it's soft.
You know, here's youropportunity to gain market share.
Like Josh said, why wouldn'tyou want that opportunity?
But sadly, that's what happens.
But furthermore, when you thinkabout some of the applications that
we have running in marketing, itneeds that level of consistency.
(36:56):
You know, take SEO for example.
SEO takes time and it needs.
Consistency.
So if you're pulling back on stufflike that, you're just shooting
yourself in the foot, no pun intended.
I mean, that's my point of view isI have never really understood you.
We sit here and we watch it and it's,it just makes me wanna pull my hair out.
Don't do that.
(37:16):
and This is Kristen.
I mean, I, I think just a, another,another, you know, as Jennifer
said before, like a wake up moment.
Like, so maybe it's, I, I can understandthat need for, you know, this, this
perception that, okay, we've been spendingall this money and now we're in the soft
market and nothing's moving the needle.
(37:37):
So, but the other wayto, to turn that another.
Way to look at that and isto say, well, are we spending
the money on the right things?
So maybe the way that we've beengoing to market, you know, works
great when you're in a, in a, youknow, in a healthy vital market.
But maybe when thingsare soft, we need to.
(37:58):
Again, as we've said so many times on thispodcast, go back to the fundamentals and
say, okay, do we really know what we'resaying and how we're going to market?
And maybe we should reallocate someof that spending to, you know, for
instance, as Josh said, you know,in-person experiences so that then we're.
Capturing content in a more authenticway and serving that back to people.
(38:22):
You know, this might be the opporyou, you definitely never wanna go
dark, but there is something to besaid that maybe it's, it becomes
more of a strategic marketing mix.
Question as opposed to just a spendquestion and the spend, you know, it
also, it does, I mean, maybe it's abias of mine, but it does feel that so
(38:42):
much of our industry is just about push,push, push, push, and then reduce price.
Reduce price.
Reduce price that's gonna movethe needle and, and that's not,
so how do you go back and say.
Okay, how do we pull people to us?
And maybe that is more through in-personexperiences and yes, maybe compliment that
(39:03):
with some price reductions or promotions,but make the promotions have life and
have fun, and not just assume thateverybody is just buying based on price.
Right.
I I, I, I love that.
But I, I also, I think that, youknow, you were going down this
path of there's not as much noise.
(39:24):
When your competitors are pulling back,take that opportunity to test, you know?
Yeah.
It's absolutely, it's a great opportunitywhen there's not as much noise going on.
So, you know, utilize your,and, and, and test to make sure
that everything is working.
If something's not working, here'syour opportunity to, to, to test
it out, to see something else.
So I think, you know, it's, it's,it's an see it as an opportunity.
(39:46):
Not necessarily, I mean, it is afrustration for us because it, it
happens to all of us, but take theopportunity to really kind of focus.
Yeah.
Great input you guys.
Thank you.
Well, I can't thank you enough.
You guys are amazing and I, I hopeeveryone who's listening or watching
this video gets in touch with each ofthese professionals because each of
(40:08):
them offers a different strength andobviously they care very much about
the industry and their businesses, so Iwould encourage you to reach out to them.
And if.
For any reason you cannot find thelinks on our website or you need to
reach 'em, you can always call meand I'll put you in touch with them.
But thank you everyone for being onthis first panel, the CMO discussion.
(40:30):
I, this is a big check the box for me.
I've been wanting to support theorganization this way, or the
industry this way, so thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
That
was awesome.
Thank so much.
That's this that's gonna wrapup this issue of the Head
Hunters Northwest Podcast.
We look forward to having allof our listeners participate
(40:51):
and listen in the next one.
Thank you.
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