March 17, 2025 • 54 mins
Aren Goldberg is a tour manager for some of the biggest artists in the dance music industry including NGHTMRE, Peekaboo, Dimension and more. In this episode we dive into the realities of life on the road, the biggest mistakes artists make when booking their first tours, and how to actually make money while touring—without blowing your budget on things you don’t need.
If you’re an artist, DJ, or producer who wants to tour one day—or if you’re already playing shows and want to level up—this episode is packed with insights that will save you time, money, and stress.
Follow Aren here:
https://www.instagram.com/arengoldd
Follow Nik Cherwink here:
https://www.instagram.com/nikcherwink
And visit my site to join the mailing list or book a free coaching call:
https://www.nikcherwink.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Aren Goldberg (00:00):
it's my job leading up to the show to make
(00:02):
sure that everything that we'respending on the show, when it
comes to personnel, when itcomes to production, when it
comes to transportation,flights, hotels, everything
that's baked in, I have to makesure that those numbers.
Fall within a healthy range formy artists to be profitable.
If that's the goal, you know,not every time though, is a show
profitable or is it meant to be,
Nik (00:36):
What's up everybody?
Welcome to the Headliner MindsetPodcast.
I'm so excited to share thisweek's episode with you because
it is with not only one of thedopest tour managers.
In the electronic musicindustry, but just one of the
dopest people in the musicindustry in general.
This is hands down, one of myfavorite humans.
Now, he's the tour manager forhuge artists like Nightmare,
peekaboo Dimension.
(00:58):
He's been in the game for a longtime, working with a lot of
incredible artists, and youknow, we've all been to these
shows that just have these huge,insane productions.
It's probably why we fell inlove with electronic music in
the first place, but.
What does it actually take topull that off?
Who are the people that arebehind the scenes that are
actually making these showshappen?
(01:20):
That's what we really dig into.
It's gonna be an incredible lookbehind the curtain to see what
does it actually take to pullthese shows off.
So without further ado, pleaseenjoy this episode with my good
friend Aaron Goldberg.
Aaron, welcome to the show, bro.
I am so, so, so, so, so, sopumped to catch up with you
(01:41):
because you are literally one ofmy favorite people in the
fucking music industry.
You're just such a, a rock solidhuman.
And it's been a while sincewe've really caught up.
Uh, and you have just been.
Just doing such great things.
I mean, I've known you for likeprobably a fucking decade and to
just
Aren Goldberg (01:57):
I think so, man.
Nik (01:58):
and what you're doing now.
Like we got a lot to catch up onand a lot of cool stuff to share
with everybody.
So thank you so much for beinghere, bro.
Aren Goldberg (02:05):
Thank you so much for having me.
It's so good to properly catchup.
You know, I, I'm really stokedto be, be a part of this.
I've always really appreciatedour friendship and all the cool
things we've done over the, asyou said, the past decade.
It's wild to think that it'sbeen a full decade now.
Nik (02:17):
I mean, probably, it's probably been about that long.
I mean, we knew each other fromback in the day when I was
working at icon collective musicproduction school in LA, you
were working with the, the whiterabbit group crew that was
throwing parties in orangeCounty.
Aren Goldberg (02:32):
Yep.
Nik (02:33):
And now you're out like touring the world as a tour
manager with some of the biggestartists in the fucking world.
So, that's pretty rad.
I'd love to hear like just alittle bit about your story.
You know, you came from being apromoter working on like
throwing shows.
How did you end up actuallygoing out on the road with
artists and becoming a tourmanager?
How did that happen?
Aren Goldberg (02:52):
Man, it's crazy.
It's kind of two pronged.
So granted, you know, we didmeet through the ghost and white
rabbit group, you know, back inthe day I in tandem also was in
school, I was going to, I was, Iwent to Cal state Fullerton.
Uh, I had a full load ofclasses, but also on top of
that, it was, it was nuts.
I don't know how I did it.
And I guess that kind of, itkind of trickles down into what
(03:14):
I'm doing now.
It's like, I've always got myhands in so many things.
It never changed.
It's, it was always that way.
But on top of those two things.
I had a really incredible,internship slash, it, it, it
kind of evolved into a biggerrole, with this, record label
and clothing brand called Twonkthat I was a part of through,
um, with Brills, yeah, Brills,uh, who is now Ellis Dream, uh,
(03:36):
and is also an incredible,incredible project in that self,
but, uh, Thanks to Sammy Brillsand another incredible mentor
that I've had over many, manyyears named Oz, you know, us
three, we, built something veryspecial and I was very, very
thankful to be a part of it froma young age, pretty much right
out of high school.
I threw, threw myself out there.
I, I took a shot in the darkand.
(03:56):
Didn't really know what I wasasking for, so to speak, but
they kind of taught me the ropesof how the music business was
like really early on.
So I got my kind of kick with,with merchandise really, really
early on.
And that's actually how I gotconnected really close with
White Rabbit and the Yost justfrom my involvement through
that.
a lot of the artists they werebooking.
I actually happened to go toIcon and a lot of the people who
(04:19):
went to Icon ended up playing atthe Yoast through White Rabbit
Group.
And then it was just kind ofthis big web of connection and
sure enough the pieces connectedand eventually I wanted to
branch out from merch.
And I, I kind of just let, letthe wind take me to where I
needed to go.
I didn't really know what thejob tour manager was at first.
(04:40):
I'd say my first realopportunity came around 2014.
Uh, doing some local stuff.
I had a, really another, I hadanother amazing mentor named
Corey Enomy, who was, part ofthe TWONK group for quite some
time, but, Corey gave me some ofmy very first opportunities,
back then, and I, I can't thankhim enough for that, and the
floodgates opened from there.
(05:01):
So, it's been, it's been quite astint.
Nik (05:04):
Yeah, yeah.
I wanna pick one piece out ofthat story where you said you
just threw yourself out there interms of getting connected.
Because I'm, I'm a big fan ofshooting your shot, and
Aren Goldberg (05:14):
Me too.
Nik (05:15):
it sounds, it sounds like that was one of those moments of
just fucking shooting your shotand, and getting the
opportunity.
Tell me a little bit more about,like, about that moment, because
I think it's so important andsuch a big part of, like, most
people's stories that I talk to.
Um,
Aren Goldberg (05:37):
what I did.
It was complete accident.
Most of my life I was gearingtowards playing some sort of
semi professional ice hockey.
That was pretty much I didn't.
I had no shot of making it tothe NHL.
My chance was lost.
Well into my journey into theproject or, or into my, into my
process of wanting to playprofessionally.
But it's all right.
(05:57):
I, I wanted to still go off.
I, I, I was, uh, into the worldand try to play to some high
level or make my way into sportsto some degree.
but pretty much my senior yearof high school, I was in the
process of talking to some teamin Ontario, Canada, and playing
right after high school, but Iactually got injured in my.
In, in one of my games that Iwas playing and I lost my
(06:18):
opportunity to go to the scoutcombine for, for that team to
make the team.
So pretty much everything I hadbeen building myself up towards
was like lost.
At that point, I kind of feltlike a lost cause.
Didn't really know what else todo.
I went into kind of a depressionfor, for probably three or four
months, I would say.
And then I had to really think Ihad to look inward and really
(06:39):
think about it and just be like,all right, what else do I like
in life?
What else do I like doing?
Something I always have loveddoing is making mixtapes for
people.
Like, listening to music,finding new music, that's always
been a really big part of myidentity and who I am.
You know, someone called a lovelanguage, so to speak.
You know, if I really care aboutsomeone, I'm gonna make them a
mixtape, you know?
(07:00):
so I was like, okay, wait,music's kind of cool.
Let me think about this.
And, sure enough, what, uh,Brills was doing and, and when
Twonk kind of formulated intowhat it was, the mission
statement behind it reallyresonated with me.
Uh, so a lightbulb went off inmy head literally in the middle
of the night one night, and Iliterally just sent a message
and was like, Hey, I'm this kidfrom Cupertino, California.
(07:21):
Uh, I don't really know what I'mdoing, but I like what you're
doing.
Uh, if you ever need help withanything, I don't know what to
ask for, but let me know.
And sure enough, a couple weekslater, I heard back and,
literally two weeks after, afterhigh school, after I graduated,
I moved down to SouthernCalifornia.
And.
The rest is history.
I got really lucky.
Nik (07:40):
Dude, it's, it's, I just want to highlight that part of
the story, because it's sofucking important.
It's like, Just shooting yourshot, creating your own
opportunities, putting yourselfout there.
It's like you never know.
And I truly think that theuniverse rewards you when it
sees you being courageous.
You know, a lot of times we'rekind of like waiting for things
to happen and it's
Aren Goldberg (08:00):
Yep.
Nik (08:00):
you gotta, you gotta put yourself out there.
You got to put yourself, youknow, go out on a limb and take
those chances sometimes.
Because, you know, a big part ofmy story, I mean, literally like
how I got hired at CapitolRecords in the first place, but
how I got specifically into thelike EDM industry, was, you
know, when I was working atCapitol Records and I was
looking at what was happeningacross the street at Avalon and
(08:23):
the whole, like, Dance musicwave was just coming.
It's like 2009, 2010 before shitwas like what it was.
And I knew three managers ofDJs.
It was, I think, um, shit.
Who was it?
Uh, one of them, well, one ofthem was David Guetta's manager.
And I think it was Morgan Page'smanager and then this trance DJ,
(08:44):
uh, Christopher, what the fuck'shis last name?
Christopher something.
Um, but anyways, I, I was like,okay, I know three people in the
industry and I want to, I knew,I was like, I want to get into
this world.
This world is exciting.
Like I want to like, I want tobe a part of this like dance
music thing that's happening andI know three people.
So I just sent three emails andit was the same thing.
I was like, Hey, like, I just, Ijust want to get involved.
(09:06):
Like I just want to fucking getin, you know, and.
David Guetta's manager was theone that hit me back.
She's like, Hey, I think I mighthave something for you.
And that just opened up, youknow, the doors for me.
But you know, how many, how manytimes are we not sending that
fucking email?
Like that one message, that oneDM.
And I, and I, and I'm preachingthis to my clients all the time
where it's, you know, it's like,you just need that one artist to
(09:27):
start playing your fucking song.
a lot of you all are too scaredto send the fucking DM.
Aren Goldberg (09:32):
Oh man.
Nik (09:33):
if I, I don't want to seem annoying or like, you know, what
if they, you know, like, it'slike, there's all this, this
fear of what people are going tothink about you if you reach
out.
And it's like, if that fear,that fear might be holding you
back from the one life changingopportunity,
Aren Goldberg (09:49):
A hundred percent.
Nik (09:50):
launch your fucking career, dude.
Aren Goldberg (09:52):
A hundred percent.
Nik (09:53):
Yeah.
So just to, I'll get off mysoapbox, but like, if you're, if
you're waiting to see.
Whether that's like, talking tothe hot girl across the bar, or
that's sending a DM to yourfavorite, you know, that might
be your future wife.
Like,
Aren Goldberg (10:05):
Could be.
Yeah, it's crazy.
I mean, I have so many of myclosest friends and colleagues
who, are so afraid to take thosechances and those leaps, but And
admittedly for me too, I was abit timid, when I was younger, I
actually this was a huge stepoutside of my comfort zone doing
something like that.
I thought I was gonna getrejected.
I mean, I, you know, everyonefears, you shoot your shot like
(10:28):
that, like you don't do itbecause you're worried about the
negative, but You won't knowunless you try.
My favorite quote of all time,as cheesy as it is, but it's not
at all.
I live by it every day.
Wayne Gretzky, you miss ahundred percent of it.
You miss a hundred percent ofthe shots you don't take.
And I live by that verystrongly.
Ever since that happened, mylife has changed for the better
(10:49):
ever since I took that leap.
I mean, I met you because of it,you know, I met amazing people
like yourself.
Nik (10:54):
people.
Hundreds
Aren Goldberg (10:55):
of other people.
Yeah.
Literally, if I didn't make thatshot wouldn't have happened,
Nik (10:59):
It's crazy, man.
Aren Goldberg (11:00):
So
Nik (11:01):
love it.
So anyone, anyone that's sittingthere, anyone that's, that's
teetering, you know, like, just,just, just do it.
Just to, just to steal another,another famous quote, just do
it.
Aren Goldberg (11:10):
just do it.
Nik (11:11):
now, alright, I want to really get into tour, being a
tour manager.
What do you actually do?
Let's break that down.
This is an important member ofthe team that at some point
people are probably going towant to have, but like, let's
clarify what it, what is itexactly that you do as a tour
manager?
Aren Goldberg (11:29):
It depends on there.
There's a number of variables.
If we're talking, just in myconcentration within electronic
music, the term tour managerkind of stretches a bit, and
I'll get into that a bit furtherdown the line, but the general
sense of what a tour manager isin summary is.
This is the person who isresponsible for an artist's
(11:53):
shows, like performances,performances, appearances,
anywhere in the world.
They're in charge of alllogistics.
to the show and the team thatsurrounds that artist.
So let's say for example, I havea show at the Hollywood
Palladium in Los Angeles.
I am in charge of building theschedule for the show.
(12:14):
I'm in charge of coordinatingthe team that comes to execute
the show for the artist.
Like I have to manage a team offive different people, all the
different positions that run thelights, the video, the sound, If
there's any SFX managing thosetypes of people, this is on top
of managing the artists andmanaging all the extra people
that come alongside the artiststhat aren't necessarily part of
(12:36):
the core tour core touring crew.
So, you know, what could be fivepeople that are actually running
the show.
I could end up looking after 15,you know, whether that extends
out to the photographers, thevideographers, the managers that
come alongside the partners, thefamily, I look after all those
people when it comes pertains tothis one show.
You know, um, If, if we'rebringing in a production
(12:58):
manager.
You know, to, to run the show.
Generally speaking, tourmanagers don't really oversee
the production side of things,all the non technical things
that the tour manager looksafter, like making sure the
dressing rooms are stocked withthe correct items, food, drinks,
miscellaneous items.
I look after that.
I'm also overseeing the budgetsfor the show.
(13:19):
When there are bigger tours, ifyou're going on a bigger tour,
sometimes you have what's calleda tour accountant and that
person will look over thenumbers, uh, and, and it kind
of, uh, shifts the duty a bitonto another person dedicated
specifically for that.
But on smaller tours where youdon't necessarily have an
accountant, that responsibilityfalls generally on the tour
manager to look over that kindof thing.
Nik (13:38):
What's that budget consist of?
Aren Goldberg (13:40):
When an artist gets booked, basically, they're
given a guaranteed amount ofmoney.
They're given a certain dollaramount, and maybe in the
contract, it's considered what'scalled a flat deal.
Like you don't get anyadditional provisions on the
show.
Like, and what I mean byadditional provisions, sometimes
when, when an artist is booked,a promoter can agree with the
(14:01):
artist agent, the booking agentthat books the show, they can
say, okay, we'll give you,throwing out a random number,
we'll give you 10, 000 to playthis show, but if you are able
to sell tickets worth 90 percentof the show's capacity, so like,
if you can sell 90 percent ofyour tickets, after that point,
we'll give you an additional 5,000, so if you can sell Almost
(14:25):
if you can get almost to asellout, we'll give you 5, 000
extra or sometimes they're like,Hey, if you sell the show, we're
going to give you double theamount of money or something
like that, you know?
So I have to then take that maxamount of number, calculate
that, versus the amount ofexpenses that the tour incurs
paying for the crew salaries,paying whatever the additional
production elements would comeinto the show.
(14:46):
Like if we want to bring in,like, let's say like, for
example, at the Palladium, theyhave a bunch of lights already
in house.
A lot of the times they'll alsohave a video wall that's already
in there.
But hey, let's say that my guywants to bring in 10 to 20 more
lights for whatever reason.
The promoter's not paying forthat.
It's going to come out of ourpocket.
Right.
Because we want to do somethingextra.
(15:06):
So whatever the cost of that is,I now have to put that into a
line and subtract that from thetotal amount.
And then that calculates howmuch we're earning for the show.
So I have to kind of see whatthe gross income looks like,
what the net income looks like.
And of course, managers, agents.
They all take a commission offof the show.
(15:27):
So there's, there's percentagesthat you have to calculate also.
So it's my job leading up to theshow to make sure that
everything that we're spendingon the show, when it comes to
personnel, when it comes toproduction, when it comes to
transportation, flights, hotels,everything that's baked in, I
have to make sure that thosenumbers.
Fall within a healthy range formy artists to be profitable.
(15:48):
If that's the goal, you know,not every time though, is a show
profitable or is it meant to be,
Nik (15:54):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Aren Goldberg (15:55):
but these, these are, these are things I have to
consider.
Nik (15:58):
I like that you just said, if it's meant to be, you know,
cause that was a really goodconversation I had with Ben
Hogan, really, honestly, it'sthe number one performing
podcast episode that I've putout so far.
Ben Hogan is a, is a bookingagent for UTA.
Has worked with some of thebiggest artists in the dance
music industry from Marshmellojaws Probably a lot of guys that
(16:20):
you've worked with i'm sureyou've tm'd for some, you know
Some good guys on on theirroster, but that's the point
that he made, specificallytalking about excision was one
of the examples or even suddendeath, but it's like They know
going into the tour that they'relike, yo, we're gonna, that 10,
000 or that 20, 000, we'rebasically going to spend the
whole thing on all this reallycool, extra shit.
(16:41):
Um, you know, slanders talk tome about this as well, where
it's like, yo, we're going tospend that on making the show so
fucking dope.
Right?
And maybe this year, we're We'renot really making money off of
that tour, but we're buildingsuch a massive fan base because
of how sick our shows are thatthe year after and the year
after that where we're reallystarting to make some real money
or we're now we're starting tomake a lot of money off of
(17:03):
merch.
We're starting to make money inthese other areas because we're
invest, we're investing so muchin our shows, whereas other
artists aren't necessarily doingthat.
They're trying to be like, Hey,how can we come away with the
most money from this tour?
And they're just not, they'renot bringing in those extra
lasers and all that extra shit.
Right.
Aren Goldberg (17:19):
Exactly.
So yeah, I mean, looking overthe financials is honestly such
a very critical, it's a verycritical part of my job.
Aside from that too, some othersmall things that kind of come
together.
Anytime there's a meet and greetinvolved or any sort of V.
A.
P.
program that comes along withthe show, I'm in charge of
coordinating that whole thing.
along with our promoters andmanagement team, but I help
oversee to make sure that fallswithin the proper schedule of
(17:40):
our show.
so yeah, in essence, anythingnon technical, anything non
production related to the show.
Generally falls under myshoulders, but I oversee in a
nutshell every aspect of a liveperformance for an artist and
that's from start to finish Imean i'm not i'm honestly not
done working on a show sometimeseven for a week past the show's
completion date all while stilldoing whatever show I'm actively
(18:03):
on.
So, it, it can, it, it can bepretty hefty.
Nik (18:07):
Yeah.
When you say you're not done,like, what do you find yourself
still working on?
The show's over, but you sayyou're still even working on
that show afterwards.
What are you working on exactly?
Aren Goldberg (18:17):
Most of the time it's settlement for the show.
And again, that kind of fallsback onto the financial side of
things.
Making sure that we're going toearn exactly the amount of money
that we're supposed to.
Cause, in, in essence, if, we'remaking less money for some
reason,, on the show than wewere estimating, then I need to
make an adjustment on, Sometimeseven who I can bring to a future
(18:38):
show or production elements thatI work on with a production
manager.
If I am working with one, if Ican even bring some of these
things into the fold for futureshows.
So
Nik (18:47):
Yeah.
Aren Goldberg (18:47):
generally speaking, it takes time to look
at all the pieces that wereinvested into a show.
And you could work on things allthe way up to a week after.
Nik (18:54):
I say, yeah.
So even in the middle of thetour, you might be looking at
like, Hey, we, maybe we didn'tmake as much money on that last
show.
We thought we were going to now,maybe we need to be cutting
something from this future showor maybe not bring in all the
lasers that we were going to.
I don't know why I'm just, I'mfeeling very infatuated with the
lasers right now.
I'm curious about if somebodywants to bring in extra
production.
are they.
(19:14):
Renting that like let's say youhave that ten thousand dollar
budget and you're like, hey, youknow what?
I want to bring in an extra, youknow Some extra production here
Would you source that from thecity that you're going to or
would that potentially besomething that you bring?
You like bring with you all onthe tour I guess that would
probably wouldn't make sense ifyou're doing fly ins that would
only make sense on like a bustour But like how does that work
(19:37):
with like bringing an extraproduction?
Aren Goldberg (19:38):
It's a great question.
Uh, there's multiple ways to goabout it.
You know, again, this kind ofjob does generally fall under a
production manager's purviewlook to source this kind of
thing, but not every tour inelectronic music anyway, is, uh,
you know, they're not, they'renot profiting enough, or
sometimes the shows don't makeit enough sense to bring on a
(19:59):
formal production manager.
So in a lot of the times, thereis a kind of a gray area where
the tour manager sometimes doeshave production manager
responsibilities.
Now, when it comes to bringingin the gear, a lot of the time
you want to find localproduction.
You want to find the gear that'sbased in that city.
Cause a lot of the time you haveto worry about trucking costs,
(20:19):
flying them in from other placesthat adds to the pile, what
could be, a 2, 000 rental thenbecomes 2, 900 because.
You had to ship them fromsomewhere else versus having
them delivered locally.
The promoters generally are notresponsible for providing them
unless it's written, unless it'sagreed upon and written in the
contract.
That's how that's, drafted wellin advance to you even getting
(20:42):
to the show.
So generally speaking, youshould know when you're
advancing the show, in thetimeframe that you should be.
to do that, you should alreadyknow at that point who's
responsible for bringing thosein if it's contracted to do so.
Nik (20:56):
yeah.
Aren Goldberg (20:57):
but generally speaking, if even if you're on a
fly day, it's totally normal tobring in lasers.
most major markets will havesome sort of vendor that has
inventory.
It just all really depends onthe time of the year.
It depends on how many you'retrying to get.
What there's so many things thatgo into it, you know,
Nik (21:14):
Mm.
Aren Goldberg (21:17):
come with them?
Do you just want the units?
Like, do you want them to be 10Watts versus 30 Watts?
Like there's so many differenttypes of things that go, go into
it.
Generally speaking though, laservendors, I try, at least for me,
my own personal opinion is I tryto stick with, the people that I
care about the most.
Relationships are everything tome in this business.
(21:39):
even if I'm in New York, forexample, I might still want to
work with my vendor that's basedin, based on the West coast,
because they'll always give me agood deal for what I'm looking
for.
sometimes prices are inflatedper city.
They're not going to always costthe same anywhere you go.
So you, there's so manydifferent factors that go into
it.
Uh, but.
(21:59):
You know, if you get, if you getthe lucky instance of having the
promoter cover it, fantastic.
You just show up, flash andsmash, you're out.
Otherwise, you kind of have todo a little bit of digging and
research to find the best, uh,best price for, for your
situation.
Nik (22:14):
Yeah, cool.
Yeah, it is such an elevatedlevel, I think, from a lot, what
a lot of Younger music producersand DJs think the game is about
is like, Oh, I'm just, I justhop on a flight and I fly to the
show and I show up and I plug myUSB in and I play and then I'm,
and I don't.
And at a certain level that istrue, like
Aren Goldberg (22:33):
Yeah.
Nik (22:33):
in the beginning, but like once you start getting to that,
that real next level, you know,real like headliner level, it's
like, okay, cool.
No, we're, we're throwingfucking shows
Aren Goldberg (22:41):
Yeah,
Nik (22:42):
right.
It's a
Aren Goldberg (22:43):
that's right.
Nik (22:44):
it's a different, it's just a different tier to reach.
Right.
Um,
Aren Goldberg (22:48):
Yes.
Nik (22:49):
are you?
Who are you dialoguing with on aregular basis?
Is it the manager and thebooking agent?
Is the artist pretty involved?
Like who are you actually likereally in a conversation with
on, on a daily basis to pull allof this off?
Aren Goldberg (23:05):
I'd say it's about the way that I am
structured.
Everyone's situation, again, isvery unique to their, to their
own situation.
But for me, the way that it's.
That it's done just to make sureI'm being a good partner across
everything.
Generally speaking, it's about,60 percent with the management
team, 40 percent with theartist, or I should say, sorry,
(23:26):
let me, let me rephrase 60percent with the management
team, 30 percent with theartist, 10 percent with the
agent.
Nik (23:32):
Okay.
Aren Goldberg (23:33):
That's about my spread of how I communicate.
I find myself.
On a daily basis, always intouch with the management team.
the artists, if I need somethingspecifically approved at the end
of the day, it's their decision.
It's their project.
They're the boss, you know,both, both the management
company and myself, even thoughI'm separate, I'm a separate
entity from the managementcompanies that work with those
(23:54):
artists, but we work together todeliver the same product.
Nik (23:57):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Aren Goldberg (23:58):
uh, generally speaking, I'm finding myself
talking to the management teammore because we're in the, we're
in the trenches getting a lot ofthe hard work and all the hard
pieces of the shows put togetherdaily.
And then the artists, you know,that we give them the space to
go create and, you know,continue evolving, the music,
the art direction, the, just thegeneral overall brand, you know,
(24:21):
they're, they're the onesideating a lot of that stuff.
So.
I don't want to always, bug themwith, you know, the minute
details of the shows, unlessthey want it.
Unless they want it, then I'llgive it to them.
Nik (24:32):
With the Excel spreadsheets of 30 watt lasers.
Aren Goldberg (24:36):
They don't need to see that all the time, you
know?
Yeah, exactly.
Nik (24:39):
who are you working with these days?
Aren Goldberg (24:42):
It's kind of, it's exciting.
I mean, I've had quite a widerange of clients over the past,
12 years.
It's pretty, pretty crazy tothink about now at this point.
But right now I have, I think Ihave six active right now is the
way, the way it's looking, whichis great.
I started my own little touringcollective a few years ago.
So it's me and I have, threeother fantastic partners, that
(25:05):
I've found and collaborated withover the years.
And now we have our own littlepocket of, of a little touring
community that we now, we were aone stop shop in service to Many
different artists all around theworld right now.
My main clients are Nightmarewho is you mentioned Ben Hogan?
He's a Ben Hogan client rightthere But nightmares my primary
(25:26):
client.
I've been with him now for threeyears, which is amazing I do
peekaboo and again that threeyears with him, which is
amazing, too North America only.
I am doing Dimension, Subfocus,and Wilkinson.
It's a new one as of recent.
But I'm only doing NorthAmerica, Logistics and Touring
for those three.
(25:47):
And then I am what's, I am thetour director for side piece
house music at project.
what that entails is I don'tnormally go out on the road with
them.
I have other people that go outfor him, but I handle all the
logistics overall.
So there is another tour managerthat goes out for me, but I
still oversee and handle all thelogistics and I make the
(26:08):
playbook.
I, I,
Nik (26:11):
you have minions now that you just send out to do your
work for you while you get tokick back at the office and,
have a nice little, you know,not a little night in.
I see.
Aren Goldberg (26:20):
I, I, I would never want to call them minions,
you know, they're, they're, but,but, um, they, no, no,
Nik (26:27):
badass fucking road warriors.
Aren Goldberg (26:29):
they're, they're incredible road warriors
themselves too, but I'm verythankful to have them in the
mix.
but yeah, that, that's thespread right now it's incredible
and surprisingly enough.
Uh, it does sound like a lot.
It is a lot, but I still have alife.
I still find a way to make itall work.
Nik (26:44):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, let's, let's talk aboutthat because, just before we
were getting on, were talkingabout how you just came off of,
a run of shows and are justcatching up energetically, from
life on the road and from, fromthe physical demands of that.
and I think that's a very, uh,Just a very real thing.
You know, we've talked aboutthat a lot on the shows,
(27:04):
especially with like the heaviertouring artists.
How, how do you maintain yourphysical health and energy when
you're, you know, on this likewild touring schedule?
Aren Goldberg (27:16):
I will tell you it's very difficult.
I mean, everyone's different.
Again, I keep saying that, but,you know, that, that is the
reality of it.
It is a work in progress for me,and I'm, I'll be the first to
admit that I'm trying very hardto find a balance.
It's been one of my biggestthings that I've been working
towards over the past year.
as of right now, you know, I'mjust trying to prioritize
getting rest at home.
(27:37):
When you're home during theweek, You know, that's the time
where you're not having to leavea show at two or three in the
morning and then have to get tothe airport by like 6 30 to
catch an 8 a.
m.
flight.
You know, I'm, I'm not, this isthe time where I'm not running
myself absolutely just to the,to the bone.
(27:58):
I'm not running myself dry here,you know, and I'm, this, this is
time where I actually canregulate my bedtime and I can
regulate what I'm eating.
It's very hard to eat on theroad because a lot of times
you're in, you're in transit,you don't have time to think
about it.
you could have situations pop upleft and right, you know, but
the second you have a moment tobreathe, something else pops up,
you gotta go run away, and thenyou blink, and it's two hours
(28:19):
later, and you've missed yourwindow to eat, you know, I think
the biggest thing for myselfduring, during, uh, this time
is, Monday through Thursday, Ihave to stick to a routine.
And if I don't, I'm going toburn out and I've done it.
I've run into situations overthe past five years where,
especially after COVID happened,you have to the pandemic, the
landscape changed of like, justreally taking care of yourself.
(28:42):
You know, if you don't, if youdon't take the time to, really
like, strengthen your immunesystem and your physical health,
then you're not doing thingsthat just.
Generally promote a healthylifestyle and a healthy regimen
ahead of time.
You're just not going to bestrong enough to go out on the
road.
You know, if you get sick on theroad and you can't go do these
shows you're not getting moneyYou can't get paid if you don't
(29:04):
get paid.
You can't live, you know, yougotta you gotta give yourself
that insurance During the weekand you just have to stick to
the schedule.
It's pretty much black and whiteat this point.
You know, if you're not doingwhat you need to do during the
week to take care of yourself,you're just in for a bad time.
Nik (29:21):
Yeah.
Yeah.
That was a big thing that Iworked with Sippy on.
She was the first, client that Ihad that was like mid headlining
tour and had me in her corner,you know, just specifically as a
life coach mindset coach.
And that was the big thing thatI remember telling her in the
beginning.
I was like, yo, like you're,you're fucking F one car, right?
(29:44):
Or like you get to decide whatkind of car you are.
Like you're, you're in the race,right?
Right.
Do you want to be a Honda Civicand do you want to treat
yourself like that?
Are you going to like get nosleep and just be putting
fucking junk in your body andnot only physical energy, but
like your mental energy,emotional energy, spiritual
energy.
You know, we are, we have totake care of the vessel and it's
(30:04):
like, Treat yourself like an F1car.
That was the theme that wereally ran with.
And it was like, all right, howdo I keep my, my mindset really
fucking sharp?
She's coming back and doing, youknow, red light therapy and
hitting the gym and being like,okay, cool.
We're, we're going to take careof the body really good.
Because we're back on the roadon Thursday and we're going to
be out till four in the morning,every night.
And, and when I come back, Ialso have to be creative, right?
(30:26):
I also got to come back and nowI got, now I'd still need to
make music Monday throughWednesday and have some fucking
energy for that.
So like so much of our work wasjust like, get fucking dialed in
because that lifestyle is fastand you're running a fucking F1
race, you know?
Aren Goldberg (30:43):
Yeah, no kidding
Nik (30:44):
you want to, not only, not only if you want to survive, but
if you want a fucking podium andyou want to win, you got to
treat yourself like that.
All right.
Aren Goldberg (30:51):
100%.
I mean, it's it is just at thispoint as you get older doesn't
get easier either.
You know, I'm 30 right now.
I'm turning 31 this year.
I'm very, very fortunate to havethe position that I do at this
age.
I have colleagues that are tourmanagers, you know, younger than
me, older than me, but a lot ofthe people I learned from are
older than me, you know, andthey've all told me the same
(31:15):
thing.
It's pretty much just take careof yourself.
The older you get, the harder itis to recover, you know, but if
you're in good shape and youcan, and you can really do what
you can to mitigate those longnights, during the week, you
know, and not have to feel likeyou're playing catch up for two
to three days.
It's all the work you do rightnow,
Nik (31:33):
Yeah.
Aren Goldberg (31:34):
you know,
Nik (31:34):
Yeah.
And I share that same sentimentfor artists that aren't even
touring yet.
It's like, don't wait till youstart touring to put the habit,
the healthy habits in place.
Get those healthy habits dialedin now, right?
start really taking care of yourvessel, right?
Your mind, your body, and yourspirit.
Start like really priming thatnow so that when you do go on
(31:56):
the road, like you're ready forit.
Right.
Aren Goldberg (31:58):
a hundred percent,
Nik (31:59):
if you're, you're about to blow the fuck up and be the
biggest internationally touringDJ in the, in the world.
Right.
Aren Goldberg (32:05):
a hundred percent.
Nik (32:06):
and, and when that time comes, you're going to be ready
for it because we do see itsometimes too, where it's like,
people aren't ready for it.
and it's a real bitch slap tothe face with like, Oh, wow.
Like this is actually hard.
And, you know, we see it all thetime with artists.
That's like, yeah, you can.
Kind of party your way throughit for a little while and be
like, all right, let's just,let's just kind of, you know,
(32:27):
use that social lubricant andall of that, but it's going to
catch up with you.
It doesn't last very long foranybody.
Aren Goldberg (32:33):
No, it does not.
It does not.
The other best way to mitigate,you know, even when you're on
the road on the weekends, itdoesn't have to just stop during
the week on the weekends.
You know, if you get to a pointwhere you're able to ask for a
hospitality writer, that'ssubstantial, you know, opting
out of, sweets or, unhealthyfood and, and adding in like a
veggie tray or a fruit tray, orcold press juice, you know, like
(32:56):
thankfully I'm working withpeople now that care About their
well being so it doesn't have tojust end during the week, you
know Like I said, it's so hardto eat when you're on the road
So if you can request healthysnacks or meals when you're at
the venues absolutely takeadvantage of that.
Nik (33:13):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Now I can, I'm trying to putmyself in your shoes of.
Managing so much stuff.
It sounds honestly stressful asfuck.
I don't think I would be cut outfor it.
I am not the most like organizedlogistical person.
You have to have the energeticcapacity to hold a lot, not only
with all the, you know, thelogistics and the spreadsheets
(33:35):
and the finances, but also allof the people and the
relationships.
And you know, I've, I've been onthe road.
I was a manager.
I did a little, you know, alittle, we'd go out with the
artists every now and then alittle bit of tour managing.
Yeah, there's a lot ofpersonality.
There can be a lot of ego.
There can be a lot of unforeseenthings that just pop up fires to
put out.
Right.
it can be fucking stressful.
(33:56):
How do you handle the stress?
Aren Goldberg (34:01):
It's a great question I think the best way To
do it The stress is always havea plan always have a backup plan
always think about Like, and,and something, I don't think
everyone's built the same waywhen it comes with knowing how
to manage expectations ormanaging personalities or
figuring that out, because atthe end of the day to another
(34:23):
unwritten job title that doescome up with tour managers is
you're kind of almost in asense, you're kind of like an
adult babysitter in some way, atleast with least, at least in
electronic music, I can say thatother genres, not so much, you
know, it's pretty black andwhite with, with responsibility.
And there's less tolerance for alot of this stuff, but at least
in our industry.
How it's evolved over time, youknow, like within the electronic
(34:44):
space, I find myself having tomanage, uh, people's, you know,
feelings a lot of the time too,because ultimately someone
doesn't feel good, they're justgoing to quit and then I have to
go find someone else and inthese days too, it's hard to
find good people to do a lot ofthese jobs.
There is a, there are a lot ofvery qualified operators and
technicians all across the U Sall across the world.
(35:06):
But.
To get someone so specific foryour specific artist and team,
you know, you gotta really belucky to find that one person.
I'm very fortunate to find thosepeople.
But what comes with it though,um, you know, for me, managing
stress specifically, I just havevery specific timelines for
(35:28):
managing my own expectation.
Like, I can only withstandsomething for so long before I
have to keep moving.
On a certain thing.
And I have to, I I'm alwaysfaced with split second
decisions.
it is very situational, but alot of the time, if something's
not moving quick enough, I haveto know how to pivot or make the
(35:48):
best decision.
Even if it's not a good one, Ihave to know how to make the
best decision to minimize theimpact to the artist
Nik (35:55):
Yeah.
Aren Goldberg (35:55):
team as a whole, or in general, at the end, like
for, for me.
when I need to just like to havean escape from all the shit
that's happening, I usuallybring a second monitor with me.
most venues will have this too.
Uh, they'll have like aproduction office or a touring
or, or tour office that'sseparate from the green room.
I'll usually set myself up inone of these quiet rooms.
(36:18):
So if I need a place to justescape from the madness, I have
a place to go and I'll set up mysecond monitor and I'll watch
some hockey and that's what Ido, you know, and, and even if I
can't sit and watch it for toolong, I'll sit down, I'll take
10, 15 minutes, open up mylaptop, I'll have my work on my
main computer and then off tothe side on my other monitor, I
have a hockey game and it justbrings me down and that's how I
(36:40):
manage mine and once I get likea little bit of a, an escape
from, from what I'm dealingwith.
Cause it's such high intensity,sensory overload at a lot of
these events.
You know, I need something thatis familiar and calming to me.
So that is what I do in thoseinstances, especially again,
when it comes to dealing with,let's say the crew's tired and
everyone's, everyone's tired andfeeling beat up and you know,
(37:04):
tensions are high.
It doesn't happen all the time.
Thankfully with the teams I'mon, I work with some pretty
incredible people.
I'm very fortunate.
But, you know, if you need alittle escape, it's good to have
a backup plan or a place you cango retreat to for a few just to
reset.
But I try really hard to not letmyself get too reactive to a
situation.
(37:25):
I like to take a, take a moment,take a deep breath, take a step
back, look at everything fromthe top down and make a decision
from there.
But it took a long time for meto get to that point.
I've trudged through the mud.
I've been in situations early onin my career where I can't
necessarily do that right thenand there, but, I'm very
fortunate that I, I learned somepretty good stress management
(37:46):
techniques from a very youngage, and I just applied it to
where I'm at now.
Nik (37:50):
Yeah, you've put, you've put some miles in, you've put
some miles in.
It definitely sounds likesomething that, that comes with
just time and experience, butyeah, I love that suggestion of
having kind of a safe space thatyou can turn to just to get, get
out of the madness.
I mean, that's actuallysomething I even worked with
Sipion as well, where as anartist.
You're in the green room andeverybody's in there and it's a
(38:12):
big party, but sometimes that'snot the best headspace for an
artist to be in.
Aren Goldberg (38:16):
Oh,
Nik (38:16):
that was something that like I had her start doing, it's
like, Hey, step outside andlike, you know, like go out and
find a little corner to justlike get calm and get
Aren Goldberg (38:25):
exactly.
Nik (38:26):
so that when you go on stage, you're not just going
from like one second, you know,having a conversation with
somebody who's like, have alittle, a little five minute
window to like, Prepare yourselffor delivering the best set
possible.
so, you know, we, we startedcreating that for her as well.
which, you know, was really,really effective for sure.
Aren Goldberg (38:44):
I think having that breathing room is so
critical, you know, taking 5 to10 minutes for yourself.
It's not going to change theshow.
If you're not there for 5 to 10minutes, you know.
Yeah,
Nik (38:56):
You know, we were just talking about this before we
started recording, but there isthat very, very true reality
about the heightened dopamineserotonin release, the wild
show, you know, the, theexplosion of energy that you
experience playing the show, andthen for a lot of people, it's
(39:20):
like, okay, well now you'reeither back at, The hotel by
yourself that night and you justwent from playing in front of
thousands of people to now beingcompletely alone or the
weekend's over and now, youknow, one minute you're the
fucking king of the world onstage or the queen of the world
on stage and everybody ischanting your name.
And now you're back in yourapartment on Tuesday, taking out
(39:40):
the fucking trash by yourself.
And it can be a bit of a headfuck right that that roller
coaster.
What's that experience like foryou, and how do you find
yourself, navigating the highsand the lows of being on the
road and, and being off?
Yeah,
Aren Goldberg (39:58):
know, I mean you said it perfectly you could be
in this incredible environmentcome off an amazing show.
You just worked 18 to 20 hoursputting this spectacle together.
Energy's high, artists arehappy, everyone's cheering,
screaming, the sound of thecrowd, the team coming together
at the end of the show, be like,that was amazing, I can't wait
(40:18):
for it, like, just the, just thethrill of traveling, you know,
and all the pieces that cometogether with that, it brings
you to such a heightened senseof, self, you know, when you're,
when you're doing that.
And so to come back after beingin such a high energy
environment to just a baseline,It's just quiet and there's
nothing happening around you andit's just you and you can just
(40:41):
hear the wind or whatnot.
Going from 100 to 0 is veryjarring sometimes, thankfully
for me from such a young age,you know, I've been able to
adapt to any environment justfrom what I'm used to.
But for me, I usually takeMonday to be by myself to come
down from everything.
Tuesday I'll go out and try tosee someone or like go out to
dinner with somebody to let alittle bit out of my, of my
(41:03):
energy level again from what I,what I've had written over from
the weekend.
And then Wednesday and ThursdayI'll usually lock back into the
work and prep for the weekendagain.
But having something to lookforward to and like some sort of
hobby.
You know, this is such ageneral, recommendation that I'm
sure a lot of people have, like,you know, having something at
home to look forward to kind ofjust helps you keep the momentum
(41:23):
of the energy that you'reexperiencing.
And it helps you just place itinto something a little bit more
tangible and easy to digest.
Because I think constantly beingon the road and constantly
touring can definitely mess withyou.
But coming off such a highenergy activity and then
bringing it into a differentvertical or whole different
activity, I think is extremelyhealthy, I think that that's
(41:45):
what keeps you from, you know,getting too depressed or feeling
like you're missing out on a bigdopamine hit.
You know, you can take thatenergy and put into something
else.
That's also exciting in yourlife.
Nik (41:55):
totally.
Yeah.
It sounds like you kind of haveyour weekends on Monday and
Tuesday.
So still having a little bit ofa weekend for yourself, right?
Like you're working, you're infull work mode during the kind
of normal person's weekend.
So you get to have a little bitof space, a little bit of
recovery for you, like mostpeople do.
And, and I think that piece ofhaving, some real life, Hobby or
(42:20):
just something to, put your timeand your energy into that.
I'd say for artists also, isn'tmusic production, isn't just
getting back in the DAW andworking on music.
And, you know, maybe some peopleare just obsessed with it and
addicted to it.
And, and that's great if that'swhat they want to do.
But I really, really advocatethat for people as well, you
know, artists specifically.
(42:41):
It's like, yeah, I got to, youknow, go play fucking pickleball
or go skateboarding and just dosomething that's going to
actually get you, you know, justto go be a normal person for
even one day out of the week.
Cause you're
Aren Goldberg (42:51):
Exactly.
Nik (42:52):
the other fucking six days, you know, you're not
Aren Goldberg (42:54):
No,
Nik (42:54):
life,
Aren Goldberg (42:55):
no.
Nik (42:56):
bit of like normalcy in there, I think can go a long
way.
Aren Goldberg (42:59):
I think so too.
I mean, literally sense ofcommunity and friends or
everything.
I mean, for me, like, I'm just anaturally extroverted person.
You know, I think over time I'vedigressed a bit on that just
because I'm always around peopleconstantly.
I do value my alone time, but Ialso do, I kind of teeter, I
teeter the line these days, somepeople might just want to be
(43:20):
alone for a whole week beforegoing back out and that's fine
for me, paying mind to yourfriendships and, and your
family.
Or loved ones, finding time tobalance that and having those
things to look forward to willonly, help strengthen your mind
to be sharper when you're goingout on a show, when those things
are also intact.
Because it's very, very easywhen the further you get down to
(43:40):
the space and the more you do,progress in your career in music
or entertainment as a whole,it's really easy for your
personal life to kind of takethe back burner.
Speaking from experience, I'velost many friends,
relationships.
I've tarnished relationshipswith my own family, just from
doing this job and, you know,making sure that you, pay
(44:02):
attention to the, to thosethings as well.
And you're, you're putting asmuch energy.
Into that side of your life ontop of your professional life is
extremely important andsomething honestly I wish I did
more of as I was growing in thisspace, but, uh, I don't regret
anything.
I, I'm very happy with where I'mat now.
It took a long time to get, Towhere I'm at now, but I think
(44:23):
more than ever, the balance isjust so, so important now that I
feel like I'm at a place where,I'm sustaining a living because
of it, you know,
Nik (44:32):
Yeah.
Yeah.
I was literally just talking tomy girlfriend about this earlier
today where like, you can't pourfrom an empty cup and you really
have to make sure that your owncup is full.
You really have to make surethat you're good, especially
when you are the artist, you arethe entire business.
You're the one that's creatingthe music.
You're the one that's getting onthe plane and flying.
(44:53):
It's like you really have toprioritize your own fulfillment,
your own happiness, your ownhealth.
If you're pouring so much out atsome point, you're going to
become tapped and it is thosethings like having a healthy
relationship with your family,having a good relationship with
your friends, taking care ofyour body, having some
activities that just bring youjoy that aren't just work.
(45:14):
That's the stuff that fills ourcup.
and it's so easy to lose sightof that though.
It's so easy to, you know, justbe so focused on the goal.
but yeah, at some point, youknow, at some point the, the
well is going to run dry andthere's not going to be a lot
to, to really pull from, youknow?
So yeah, really, really, reallygood advice.
Aren Goldberg (45:33):
Again, it kind of plays back into the whole thing
of like, as you keep gettingolder too, it's harder to
maintain.
Everyone in your personal lifegets busy, you know, making
friends can also sometimes be aharder thing for some people,
you know, as you get older,especially if you travel so
much, you know, people aren'tgoing to know when you're
available or free, so you kindof have to go take the extra
step to really go foster thoserelationships when you're back
(45:54):
home in the short amount of timeyou have, you know, and I know
sometimes a lot of people arereally tired after they've just
traveled for two to three days,you know, you're coming back
from an international trip oryou're coming back from two days
of no sleep and all you want todo is just relax and you know,
it's good to, it's important todo that, but you know, Also make
sure, again, that plays into thepart of, if you take care of
yourself during the week, thoserecovery times, you know, are
(46:17):
going to be minimized so you cango back out and, uh, really
nurture and, foster thoserelationships that are important
to you as well.
Nik (46:23):
yeah, for sure.
You know, so you, you've been inthe industry for a long time.
I've been in the industry for along time.
I'll speak for myself.
I definitely, I think aftergoing to so many shows and being
at so many festivals and it'slike for sure in the beginning
of the, of my career, it waslike, Oh my God, this is so rad.
Like getting to go to backstageat all these shows and all of
(46:45):
it.
at some point for me, it wasalso kind of like, damn, like,
all right, I've kind of seenthis and I've done this for a
minute and it doesn't definitelylike lost the allure and became
work, you know, like the, the,the dream and the thing that was
like the fucking passion.
It does, it does become workafter a while.
I think certain, you know, Ithink artists run into this too.
It's like, that's the dream isthe tour.
(47:06):
And at some point it's like thatit's kind of the day job, you
know, do you feel like you'vehit those phases as well, where
it's like, all right, this is.
more work than, play, I guess.
What's your experience been withthat?
Aren Goldberg (47:21):
Yes, the short answer is yes, it has for me,
but there's a way for me to keepmy spark.
I honestly think that, At theend of the day, everyone loves
this, Loves what they're doing.
You know, if they do to somedegree and if they don't admit
it to you, they're lying to you.
Because if they don't want, ifthey don't like what they're
doing, they wouldn't be here andthey'd think they'd go pursue
something else at this point.
You know?
Nik (47:41):
Mm
Aren Goldberg (47:44):
The veils lifted per se at some point, what was
once a very exciting opportunityto be backstage or see
everything from the front,looking out, at one point that
was super exciting and literallyfilled my cup more than anything
else could, you know, and now itis, it is a job to me.
It is that, however, withelectronic music specifically,
I.
(48:05):
I love it.
Flat out.
I mean, I've been involved inthis community from a very young
age.
I was pirating music when I wasin elementary school.
I was sneaking into raves when Iwas in middle school and high
school.
I mean, it has been such anintegral part of my life.
I've honestly, I feel like thesoundtrack to my life, I could
(48:27):
pick any electronic music songand I'd have something for every
instance.
For me, it takes a very specifickind of artist or show for me to
get excited these days,admittedly.
However, I seek those out.
In my spare time, there's veryspecific shows that I will go
to.
(48:47):
And I'll go in the crowd and Iwill have just as much of a fun
time as I did as if I was 16,17, 18 years old again, you
know, I mean, it just, there'svery specific kinds of shows
that will make me feel excitedagain.
And I think those get meinvigorated.
And that in turn allows me tonot feel jaded doing my job.
Nik (49:07):
yeah, dude.
That, that right there, that waswhen I had my first moment of,
you know, I guess kind ofgetting over it, you know?
Where I was like, damn, like,I've been to, you know, Control
so many fucking times, you know,it's like
Aren Goldberg (49:18):
Yeah,
Nik (49:19):
been to the club so many times or the shows but What I
realized that was exactly, itwas like, Oh, I need to get back
in the fucking crowd.
It was like, that's why I fellin love with this in the first
place.
It was like, okay, I'm going tohave a night out where like, I'm
going to literally leave myphone in the car and I'm going
to get on the dance floor.
I'm going to shake my goddamnass.
Like nobody's watching and justlose myself and have fun and
(49:39):
really go see an artist that Ireally, really love.
You know, like we have Ericprids coming to town in a couple
of weeks.
I'm like, I'm going to fuckingprids and I'm, I'm going ham.
You know what I mean?
Like I'm going to be just GAlike.
getting down, having fun, and weneed those.
I think artists need those aswell.
I think every artist had thatexperience of being at a
festival and having their mindblown and you know, like, yeah,
(50:00):
you got to remember why youstarted this shit in the first
place.
And as you said, like reallykeep that, keep that spark
alive.
Yeah,
Aren Goldberg (50:09):
wasn't doing that, I think it'd be much
harder for me to find a job.
Enjoyment, I think at thispoint, I mean, but everyone, you
know, everyone has a differentgoal.
Like some people are in thisjust because it is just a job to
them and that's fine.
You know, those people can existtoo.
But for me, I can speak formyself.
Like, I mean, I, I think it'sincredible that, we have the
(50:32):
opportunity to even be in thisspace, it's a very grueling,
demanding space to work inentertainment as a whole,
specifically electronic music.
It's such a niche.
Field, you know, to, to land it,to land a, an exciting career
in, in this environment.
But I think for what it's worth,you know, the fact that I can
even have time to go find thesekinds of shows in between the
(50:58):
madness of what I have, like,I'm very fortunate and blessed
to be able to do it.
And sometimes even, you know,what I'll do to maintain my
level of excitement as well as.
You know, a lot of the clientsthat I'm on or that I work with
now, thankfully, you know, wetour all over the world
collectively.
Uh, and you know, when I get achance to go to a festival, I
(51:19):
always, my first thing is toalways look at the lineup of
who's playing and I will try, ifI have the ability to, I will
always try to go early and Iwill always try to go into the
crowd and watch at least oneset.
And even if I'm just standingthere, just enjoying it, even if
I'm just standing there, justtaking it in, if I move, it's
(51:39):
not like my favorite thing inthe world.
It does give me energy, youknow, I just like seeing what's
going on.
I like seeing people innovate.
I like seeing what other peopleare doing because it also gives
me inspiration to keep findingnew, unique ways to elevate my
own career and my own clientscareers.
So
Nik (51:58):
yeah.
Aren Goldberg (51:58):
I, I like getting myself out in the field and I
like walking around.
I like getting the energy.
I like feeling the energy of allthe patrons.
I like seeing all theactivations at the shows.
It just, I like learning.
I like, I'm, I'm always learningwhile doing this job and I feel
like being able to travel andexperience these kinds of shows
and go into all these thingsjust keeps me excited and always
(52:19):
learning to reapply into whatI'm doing now.
Nik (52:22):
Yeah, yeah, well that's the thing that I've always loved
about you is that you have aspark and You have an infectious
personality.
That's really really nice to bearound, you know yeah, I think
that That is such a hugesuperpower and, you know, I'm
(52:44):
sure it's played a huge role inhelping you get as far into this
industry as you have.
There really is something to besaid for that.
And, um, yeah, man, it's likekeeping your own sparklet, you
know, just like being a positiveperson that is excited about
what they're doing and, and isgrounded also in gratitude, you
know, recognizing how lucky weare to be able to do this, to
(53:06):
have had careers in thisindustry.
Like I said in the beginning ofthe call, like you're one of my
favorite people in the musicindustry.
You know, there are a lot ofpeople out there that, have
really big egos and it's notnecessarily the funnest people
to be around.
Aren Goldberg (53:21):
No.
Nik (53:21):
you're one of those people that are just like, dude, this
guy's fucking rock solid, total.
Amazing badass and, just superhonored, honestly, that, you
were down to come on the podcasttoday and, and share some, some
wisdom with
Aren Goldberg (53:35):
Oh, the feeling is mutual, man.
I mean, I really appreciate thewords.
I, I mean, I've always valued,you know, the insight and like
excitement that you also havefor the space too.
I mean, you've been a part ofthis community for like, I mean,
you told me just now you've beena part of it longer than I've
even been around doing it.
Before I even knew that I wantedto be a part of it, you were
already involved with it, youknow, and the fact that you've
(53:56):
met so many people across thetime doing this and, and have
watched people come and go inthis business.
And you can still say that forme, that means a lot.
So I really appreciate that.
Nik (54:07):
Hell yeah, man.
well, dude, thanks again fortaking the time to hop on
really, really excited to sharethis with everybody.
And, I'm sure I will catch yousoon as you are traveling
around.
Aren Goldberg (54:18):
Oh, I can't wait.
I can't wait for that moment,man.
Thank you so much for having me.
it's my job leading up to the show to make
(00:02):
sure that everything that we'respending on the show, when it
comes to personnel, when itcomes to production, when it
comes to transportation,flights, hotels, everything
that's baked in, I have to makesure that those numbers.
Fall within a healthy range formy artists to be profitable.
If that's the goal, you know,not every time though, is a show
profitable or is it meant to be,
Nik (00:36):
What's up everybody?
Welcome to the Headliner MindsetPodcast.
I'm so excited to share thisweek's episode with you because
it is with not only one of thedopest tour managers.
In the electronic musicindustry, but just one of the
dopest people in the musicindustry in general.
This is hands down, one of myfavorite humans.
Now, he's the tour manager forhuge artists like Nightmare,
peekaboo Dimension.
(00:58):
He's been in the game for a longtime, working with a lot of
incredible artists, and youknow, we've all been to these
shows that just have these huge,insane productions.
It's probably why we fell inlove with electronic music in
the first place, but.
What does it actually take topull that off?
Who are the people that arebehind the scenes that are
actually making these showshappen?
(01:20):
That's what we really dig into.
It's gonna be an incredible lookbehind the curtain to see what
does it actually take to pullthese shows off.
So without further ado, pleaseenjoy this episode with my good
friend Aaron Goldberg.
Aaron, welcome to the show, bro.
I am so, so, so, so, so, sopumped to catch up with you
(01:41):
because you are literally one ofmy favorite people in the
fucking music industry.
You're just such a, a rock solidhuman.
And it's been a while sincewe've really caught up.
Uh, and you have just been.
Just doing such great things.
I mean, I've known you for likeprobably a fucking decade and to
just
Aren Goldberg (01:57):
I think so, man.
Nik (01:58):
and what you're doing now.
Like we got a lot to catch up onand a lot of cool stuff to share
with everybody.
So thank you so much for beinghere, bro.
Aren Goldberg (02:05):
Thank you so much for having me.
It's so good to properly catchup.
You know, I, I'm really stokedto be, be a part of this.
I've always really appreciatedour friendship and all the cool
things we've done over the, asyou said, the past decade.
It's wild to think that it'sbeen a full decade now.
Nik (02:17):
I mean, probably, it's probably been about that long.
I mean, we knew each other fromback in the day when I was
working at icon collective musicproduction school in LA, you
were working with the, the whiterabbit group crew that was
throwing parties in orangeCounty.
Aren Goldberg (02:32):
Yep.
Nik (02:33):
And now you're out like touring the world as a tour
manager with some of the biggestartists in the fucking world.
So, that's pretty rad.
I'd love to hear like just alittle bit about your story.
You know, you came from being apromoter working on like
throwing shows.
How did you end up actuallygoing out on the road with
artists and becoming a tourmanager?
How did that happen?
Aren Goldberg (02:52):
Man, it's crazy.
It's kind of two pronged.
So granted, you know, we didmeet through the ghost and white
rabbit group, you know, back inthe day I in tandem also was in
school, I was going to, I was, Iwent to Cal state Fullerton.
Uh, I had a full load ofclasses, but also on top of
that, it was, it was nuts.
I don't know how I did it.
And I guess that kind of, itkind of trickles down into what
(03:14):
I'm doing now.
It's like, I've always got myhands in so many things.
It never changed.
It's, it was always that way.
But on top of those two things.
I had a really incredible,internship slash, it, it, it
kind of evolved into a biggerrole, with this, record label
and clothing brand called Twonkthat I was a part of through,
um, with Brills, yeah, Brills,uh, who is now Ellis Dream, uh,
(03:36):
and is also an incredible,incredible project in that self,
but, uh, Thanks to Sammy Brillsand another incredible mentor
that I've had over many, manyyears named Oz, you know, us
three, we, built something veryspecial and I was very, very
thankful to be a part of it froma young age, pretty much right
out of high school.
I threw, threw myself out there.
I, I took a shot in the darkand.
(03:56):
Didn't really know what I wasasking for, so to speak, but
they kind of taught me the ropesof how the music business was
like really early on.
So I got my kind of kick with,with merchandise really, really
early on.
And that's actually how I gotconnected really close with
White Rabbit and the Yost justfrom my involvement through
that.
a lot of the artists they werebooking.
I actually happened to go toIcon and a lot of the people who
(04:19):
went to Icon ended up playing atthe Yoast through White Rabbit
Group.
And then it was just kind ofthis big web of connection and
sure enough the pieces connectedand eventually I wanted to
branch out from merch.
And I, I kind of just let, letthe wind take me to where I
needed to go.
I didn't really know what thejob tour manager was at first.
(04:40):
I'd say my first realopportunity came around 2014.
Uh, doing some local stuff.
I had a, really another, I hadanother amazing mentor named
Corey Enomy, who was, part ofthe TWONK group for quite some
time, but, Corey gave me some ofmy very first opportunities,
back then, and I, I can't thankhim enough for that, and the
floodgates opened from there.
(05:01):
So, it's been, it's been quite astint.
Nik (05:04):
Yeah, yeah.
I wanna pick one piece out ofthat story where you said you
just threw yourself out there interms of getting connected.
Because I'm, I'm a big fan ofshooting your shot, and
Aren Goldberg (05:14):
Me too.
Nik (05:15):
it sounds, it sounds like that was one of those moments of
just fucking shooting your shotand, and getting the
opportunity.
Tell me a little bit more about,like, about that moment, because
I think it's so important andsuch a big part of, like, most
people's stories that I talk to.
Um,
Aren Goldberg (05:37):
what I did.
It was complete accident.
Most of my life I was gearingtowards playing some sort of
semi professional ice hockey.
That was pretty much I didn't.
I had no shot of making it tothe NHL.
My chance was lost.
Well into my journey into theproject or, or into my, into my
process of wanting to playprofessionally.
But it's all right.
(05:57):
I, I wanted to still go off.
I, I, I was, uh, into the worldand try to play to some high
level or make my way into sportsto some degree.
but pretty much my senior yearof high school, I was in the
process of talking to some teamin Ontario, Canada, and playing
right after high school, but Iactually got injured in my.
In, in one of my games that Iwas playing and I lost my
(06:18):
opportunity to go to the scoutcombine for, for that team to
make the team.
So pretty much everything I hadbeen building myself up towards
was like lost.
At that point, I kind of feltlike a lost cause.
Didn't really know what else todo.
I went into kind of a depressionfor, for probably three or four
months, I would say.
And then I had to really think Ihad to look inward and really
(06:39):
think about it and just be like,all right, what else do I like
in life?
What else do I like doing?
Something I always have loveddoing is making mixtapes for
people.
Like, listening to music,finding new music, that's always
been a really big part of myidentity and who I am.
You know, someone called a lovelanguage, so to speak.
You know, if I really care aboutsomeone, I'm gonna make them a
mixtape, you know?
(07:00):
so I was like, okay, wait,music's kind of cool.
Let me think about this.
And, sure enough, what, uh,Brills was doing and, and when
Twonk kind of formulated intowhat it was, the mission
statement behind it reallyresonated with me.
Uh, so a lightbulb went off inmy head literally in the middle
of the night one night, and Iliterally just sent a message
and was like, Hey, I'm this kidfrom Cupertino, California.
(07:21):
Uh, I don't really know what I'mdoing, but I like what you're
doing.
Uh, if you ever need help withanything, I don't know what to
ask for, but let me know.
And sure enough, a couple weekslater, I heard back and,
literally two weeks after, afterhigh school, after I graduated,
I moved down to SouthernCalifornia.
And.
The rest is history.
I got really lucky.
Nik (07:40):
Dude, it's, it's, I just want to highlight that part of
the story, because it's sofucking important.
It's like, Just shooting yourshot, creating your own
opportunities, putting yourselfout there.
It's like you never know.
And I truly think that theuniverse rewards you when it
sees you being courageous.
You know, a lot of times we'rekind of like waiting for things
to happen and it's
Aren Goldberg (08:00):
Yep.
Nik (08:00):
you gotta, you gotta put yourself out there.
You got to put yourself, youknow, go out on a limb and take
those chances sometimes.
Because, you know, a big part ofmy story, I mean, literally like
how I got hired at CapitolRecords in the first place, but
how I got specifically into thelike EDM industry, was, you
know, when I was working atCapitol Records and I was
looking at what was happeningacross the street at Avalon and
(08:23):
the whole, like, Dance musicwave was just coming.
It's like 2009, 2010 before shitwas like what it was.
And I knew three managers ofDJs.
It was, I think, um, shit.
Who was it?
Uh, one of them, well, one ofthem was David Guetta's manager.
And I think it was Morgan Page'smanager and then this trance DJ,
(08:44):
uh, Christopher, what the fuck'shis last name?
Christopher something.
Um, but anyways, I, I was like,okay, I know three people in the
industry and I want to, I knew,I was like, I want to get into
this world.
This world is exciting.
Like I want to like, I want tobe a part of this like dance
music thing that's happening andI know three people.
So I just sent three emails andit was the same thing.
I was like, Hey, like, I just, Ijust want to get involved.
(09:06):
Like I just want to fucking getin, you know, and.
David Guetta's manager was theone that hit me back.
She's like, Hey, I think I mighthave something for you.
And that just opened up, youknow, the doors for me.
But you know, how many, how manytimes are we not sending that
fucking email?
Like that one message, that oneDM.
And I, and I, and I'm preachingthis to my clients all the time
where it's, you know, it's like,you just need that one artist to
(09:27):
start playing your fucking song.
a lot of you all are too scaredto send the fucking DM.
Aren Goldberg (09:32):
Oh man.
Nik (09:33):
if I, I don't want to seem annoying or like, you know, what
if they, you know, like, it'slike, there's all this, this
fear of what people are going tothink about you if you reach
out.
And it's like, if that fear,that fear might be holding you
back from the one life changingopportunity,
Aren Goldberg (09:49):
A hundred percent.
Nik (09:50):
launch your fucking career, dude.
Aren Goldberg (09:52):
A hundred percent.
Nik (09:53):
Yeah.
So just to, I'll get off mysoapbox, but like, if you're, if
you're waiting to see.
Whether that's like, talking tothe hot girl across the bar, or
that's sending a DM to yourfavorite, you know, that might
be your future wife.
Like,
Aren Goldberg (10:05):
Could be.
Yeah, it's crazy.
I mean, I have so many of myclosest friends and colleagues
who, are so afraid to take thosechances and those leaps, but And
admittedly for me too, I was abit timid, when I was younger, I
actually this was a huge stepoutside of my comfort zone doing
something like that.
I thought I was gonna getrejected.
I mean, I, you know, everyonefears, you shoot your shot like
(10:28):
that, like you don't do itbecause you're worried about the
negative, but You won't knowunless you try.
My favorite quote of all time,as cheesy as it is, but it's not
at all.
I live by it every day.
Wayne Gretzky, you miss ahundred percent of it.
You miss a hundred percent ofthe shots you don't take.
And I live by that verystrongly.
Ever since that happened, mylife has changed for the better
(10:49):
ever since I took that leap.
I mean, I met you because of it,you know, I met amazing people
like yourself.
Nik (10:54):
people.
Hundreds
Aren Goldberg (10:55):
of other people.
Yeah.
Literally, if I didn't make thatshot wouldn't have happened,
Nik (10:59):
It's crazy, man.
Aren Goldberg (11:00):
So
Nik (11:01):
love it.
So anyone, anyone that's sittingthere, anyone that's, that's
teetering, you know, like, just,just, just do it.
Just to, just to steal another,another famous quote, just do
it.
Aren Goldberg (11:10):
just do it.
Nik (11:11):
now, alright, I want to really get into tour, being a
tour manager.
What do you actually do?
Let's break that down.
This is an important member ofthe team that at some point
people are probably going towant to have, but like, let's
clarify what it, what is itexactly that you do as a tour
manager?
Aren Goldberg (11:29):
It depends on there.
There's a number of variables.
If we're talking, just in myconcentration within electronic
music, the term tour managerkind of stretches a bit, and
I'll get into that a bit furtherdown the line, but the general
sense of what a tour manager isin summary is.
This is the person who isresponsible for an artist's
(11:53):
shows, like performances,performances, appearances,
anywhere in the world.
They're in charge of alllogistics.
to the show and the team thatsurrounds that artist.
So let's say for example, I havea show at the Hollywood
Palladium in Los Angeles.
I am in charge of building theschedule for the show.
(12:14):
I'm in charge of coordinatingthe team that comes to execute
the show for the artist.
Like I have to manage a team offive different people, all the
different positions that run thelights, the video, the sound, If
there's any SFX managing thosetypes of people, this is on top
of managing the artists andmanaging all the extra people
that come alongside the artiststhat aren't necessarily part of
(12:36):
the core tour core touring crew.
So, you know, what could be fivepeople that are actually running
the show.
I could end up looking after 15,you know, whether that extends
out to the photographers, thevideographers, the managers that
come alongside the partners, thefamily, I look after all those
people when it comes pertains tothis one show.
You know, um, If, if we'rebringing in a production
(12:58):
manager.
You know, to, to run the show.
Generally speaking, tourmanagers don't really oversee
the production side of things,all the non technical things
that the tour manager looksafter, like making sure the
dressing rooms are stocked withthe correct items, food, drinks,
miscellaneous items.
I look after that.
I'm also overseeing the budgetsfor the show.
(13:19):
When there are bigger tours, ifyou're going on a bigger tour,
sometimes you have what's calleda tour accountant and that
person will look over thenumbers, uh, and, and it kind
of, uh, shifts the duty a bitonto another person dedicated
specifically for that.
But on smaller tours where youdon't necessarily have an
accountant, that responsibilityfalls generally on the tour
manager to look over that kindof thing.
Nik (13:38):
What's that budget consist of?
Aren Goldberg (13:40):
When an artist gets booked, basically, they're
given a guaranteed amount ofmoney.
They're given a certain dollaramount, and maybe in the
contract, it's considered what'scalled a flat deal.
Like you don't get anyadditional provisions on the
show.
Like, and what I mean byadditional provisions, sometimes
when, when an artist is booked,a promoter can agree with the
(14:01):
artist agent, the booking agentthat books the show, they can
say, okay, we'll give you,throwing out a random number,
we'll give you 10, 000 to playthis show, but if you are able
to sell tickets worth 90 percentof the show's capacity, so like,
if you can sell 90 percent ofyour tickets, after that point,
we'll give you an additional 5,000, so if you can sell Almost
(14:25):
if you can get almost to asellout, we'll give you 5, 000
extra or sometimes they're like,Hey, if you sell the show, we're
going to give you double theamount of money or something
like that, you know?
So I have to then take that maxamount of number, calculate
that, versus the amount ofexpenses that the tour incurs
paying for the crew salaries,paying whatever the additional
production elements would comeinto the show.
(14:46):
Like if we want to bring in,like, let's say like, for
example, at the Palladium, theyhave a bunch of lights already
in house.
A lot of the times they'll alsohave a video wall that's already
in there.
But hey, let's say that my guywants to bring in 10 to 20 more
lights for whatever reason.
The promoter's not paying forthat.
It's going to come out of ourpocket.
Right.
Because we want to do somethingextra.
(15:06):
So whatever the cost of that is,I now have to put that into a
line and subtract that from thetotal amount.
And then that calculates howmuch we're earning for the show.
So I have to kind of see whatthe gross income looks like,
what the net income looks like.
And of course, managers, agents.
They all take a commission offof the show.
(15:27):
So there's, there's percentagesthat you have to calculate also.
So it's my job leading up to theshow to make sure that
everything that we're spendingon the show, when it comes to
personnel, when it comes toproduction, when it comes to
transportation, flights, hotels,everything that's baked in, I
have to make sure that thosenumbers.
Fall within a healthy range formy artists to be profitable.
(15:48):
If that's the goal, you know,not every time though, is a show
profitable or is it meant to be,
Nik (15:54):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Aren Goldberg (15:55):
but these, these are, these are things I have to
consider.
Nik (15:58):
I like that you just said, if it's meant to be, you know,
cause that was a really goodconversation I had with Ben
Hogan, really, honestly, it'sthe number one performing
podcast episode that I've putout so far.
Ben Hogan is a, is a bookingagent for UTA.
Has worked with some of thebiggest artists in the dance
music industry from Marshmellojaws Probably a lot of guys that
(16:20):
you've worked with i'm sureyou've tm'd for some, you know
Some good guys on on theirroster, but that's the point
that he made, specificallytalking about excision was one
of the examples or even suddendeath, but it's like They know
going into the tour that they'relike, yo, we're gonna, that 10,
000 or that 20, 000, we'rebasically going to spend the
whole thing on all this reallycool, extra shit.
(16:41):
Um, you know, slanders talk tome about this as well, where
it's like, yo, we're going tospend that on making the show so
fucking dope.
Right?
And maybe this year, we're We'renot really making money off of
that tour, but we're buildingsuch a massive fan base because
of how sick our shows are thatthe year after and the year
after that where we're reallystarting to make some real money
or we're now we're starting tomake a lot of money off of
(17:03):
merch.
We're starting to make money inthese other areas because we're
invest, we're investing so muchin our shows, whereas other
artists aren't necessarily doingthat.
They're trying to be like, Hey,how can we come away with the
most money from this tour?
And they're just not, they'renot bringing in those extra
lasers and all that extra shit.
Right.
Aren Goldberg (17:19):
Exactly.
So yeah, I mean, looking overthe financials is honestly such
a very critical, it's a verycritical part of my job.
Aside from that too, some othersmall things that kind of come
together.
Anytime there's a meet and greetinvolved or any sort of V.
A.
P.
program that comes along withthe show, I'm in charge of
coordinating that whole thing.
along with our promoters andmanagement team, but I help
oversee to make sure that fallswithin the proper schedule of
(17:40):
our show.
so yeah, in essence, anythingnon technical, anything non
production related to the show.
Generally falls under myshoulders, but I oversee in a
nutshell every aspect of a liveperformance for an artist and
that's from start to finish Imean i'm not i'm honestly not
done working on a show sometimeseven for a week past the show's
completion date all while stilldoing whatever show I'm actively
(18:03):
on.
So, it, it can, it, it can bepretty hefty.
Nik (18:07):
Yeah.
When you say you're not done,like, what do you find yourself
still working on?
The show's over, but you sayyou're still even working on
that show afterwards.
What are you working on exactly?
Aren Goldberg (18:17):
Most of the time it's settlement for the show.
And again, that kind of fallsback onto the financial side of
things.
Making sure that we're going toearn exactly the amount of money
that we're supposed to.
Cause, in, in essence, if, we'remaking less money for some
reason,, on the show than wewere estimating, then I need to
make an adjustment on, Sometimeseven who I can bring to a future
(18:38):
show or production elements thatI work on with a production
manager.
If I am working with one, if Ican even bring some of these
things into the fold for futureshows.
So
Nik (18:47):
Yeah.
Aren Goldberg (18:47):
generally speaking, it takes time to look
at all the pieces that wereinvested into a show.
And you could work on things allthe way up to a week after.
Nik (18:54):
I say, yeah.
So even in the middle of thetour, you might be looking at
like, Hey, we, maybe we didn'tmake as much money on that last
show.
We thought we were going to now,maybe we need to be cutting
something from this future showor maybe not bring in all the
lasers that we were going to.
I don't know why I'm just, I'mfeeling very infatuated with the
lasers right now.
I'm curious about if somebodywants to bring in extra
production.
are they.
(19:14):
Renting that like let's say youhave that ten thousand dollar
budget and you're like, hey, youknow what?
I want to bring in an extra, youknow Some extra production here
Would you source that from thecity that you're going to or
would that potentially besomething that you bring?
You like bring with you all onthe tour I guess that would
probably wouldn't make sense ifyou're doing fly ins that would
only make sense on like a bustour But like how does that work
(19:37):
with like bringing an extraproduction?
Aren Goldberg (19:38):
It's a great question.
Uh, there's multiple ways to goabout it.
You know, again, this kind ofjob does generally fall under a
production manager's purviewlook to source this kind of
thing, but not every tour inelectronic music anyway, is, uh,
you know, they're not, they'renot profiting enough, or
sometimes the shows don't makeit enough sense to bring on a
(19:59):
formal production manager.
So in a lot of the times, thereis a kind of a gray area where
the tour manager sometimes doeshave production manager
responsibilities.
Now, when it comes to bringingin the gear, a lot of the time
you want to find localproduction.
You want to find the gear that'sbased in that city.
Cause a lot of the time you haveto worry about trucking costs,
(20:19):
flying them in from other placesthat adds to the pile, what
could be, a 2, 000 rental thenbecomes 2, 900 because.
You had to ship them fromsomewhere else versus having
them delivered locally.
The promoters generally are notresponsible for providing them
unless it's written, unless it'sagreed upon and written in the
contract.
That's how that's, drafted wellin advance to you even getting
(20:42):
to the show.
So generally speaking, youshould know when you're
advancing the show, in thetimeframe that you should be.
to do that, you should alreadyknow at that point who's
responsible for bringing thosein if it's contracted to do so.
Nik (20:56):
yeah.
Aren Goldberg (20:57):
but generally speaking, if even if you're on a
fly day, it's totally normal tobring in lasers.
most major markets will havesome sort of vendor that has
inventory.
It just all really depends onthe time of the year.
It depends on how many you'retrying to get.
What there's so many things thatgo into it, you know,
Nik (21:14):
Mm.
Aren Goldberg (21:17):
come with them?
Do you just want the units?
Like, do you want them to be 10Watts versus 30 Watts?
Like there's so many differenttypes of things that go, go into
it.
Generally speaking though, laservendors, I try, at least for me,
my own personal opinion is I tryto stick with, the people that I
care about the most.
Relationships are everything tome in this business.
(21:39):
even if I'm in New York, forexample, I might still want to
work with my vendor that's basedin, based on the West coast,
because they'll always give me agood deal for what I'm looking
for.
sometimes prices are inflatedper city.
They're not going to always costthe same anywhere you go.
So you, there's so manydifferent factors that go into
it.
Uh, but.
(21:59):
You know, if you get, if you getthe lucky instance of having the
promoter cover it, fantastic.
You just show up, flash andsmash, you're out.
Otherwise, you kind of have todo a little bit of digging and
research to find the best, uh,best price for, for your
situation.
Nik (22:14):
Yeah, cool.
Yeah, it is such an elevatedlevel, I think, from a lot, what
a lot of Younger music producersand DJs think the game is about
is like, Oh, I'm just, I justhop on a flight and I fly to the
show and I show up and I plug myUSB in and I play and then I'm,
and I don't.
And at a certain level that istrue, like
Aren Goldberg (22:33):
Yeah.
Nik (22:33):
in the beginning, but like once you start getting to that,
that real next level, you know,real like headliner level, it's
like, okay, cool.
No, we're, we're throwingfucking shows
Aren Goldberg (22:41):
Yeah,
Nik (22:42):
right.
It's a
Aren Goldberg (22:43):
that's right.
Nik (22:44):
it's a different, it's just a different tier to reach.
Right.
Um,
Aren Goldberg (22:48):
Yes.
Nik (22:49):
are you?
Who are you dialoguing with on aregular basis?
Is it the manager and thebooking agent?
Is the artist pretty involved?
Like who are you actually likereally in a conversation with
on, on a daily basis to pull allof this off?
Aren Goldberg (23:05):
I'd say it's about the way that I am
structured.
Everyone's situation, again, isvery unique to their, to their
own situation.
But for me, the way that it's.
That it's done just to make sureI'm being a good partner across
everything.
Generally speaking, it's about,60 percent with the management
team, 40 percent with theartist, or I should say, sorry,
(23:26):
let me, let me rephrase 60percent with the management
team, 30 percent with theartist, 10 percent with the
agent.
Nik (23:32):
Okay.
Aren Goldberg (23:33):
That's about my spread of how I communicate.
I find myself.
On a daily basis, always intouch with the management team.
the artists, if I need somethingspecifically approved at the end
of the day, it's their decision.
It's their project.
They're the boss, you know,both, both the management
company and myself, even thoughI'm separate, I'm a separate
entity from the managementcompanies that work with those
(23:54):
artists, but we work together todeliver the same product.
Nik (23:57):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Aren Goldberg (23:58):
uh, generally speaking, I'm finding myself
talking to the management teammore because we're in the, we're
in the trenches getting a lot ofthe hard work and all the hard
pieces of the shows put togetherdaily.
And then the artists, you know,that we give them the space to
go create and, you know,continue evolving, the music,
the art direction, the, just thegeneral overall brand, you know,
(24:21):
they're, they're the onesideating a lot of that stuff.
So.
I don't want to always, bug themwith, you know, the minute
details of the shows, unlessthey want it.
Unless they want it, then I'llgive it to them.
Nik (24:32):
With the Excel spreadsheets of 30 watt lasers.
Aren Goldberg (24:36):
They don't need to see that all the time, you
know?
Yeah, exactly.
Nik (24:39):
who are you working with these days?
Aren Goldberg (24:42):
It's kind of, it's exciting.
I mean, I've had quite a widerange of clients over the past,
12 years.
It's pretty, pretty crazy tothink about now at this point.
But right now I have, I think Ihave six active right now is the
way, the way it's looking, whichis great.
I started my own little touringcollective a few years ago.
So it's me and I have, threeother fantastic partners, that
(25:05):
I've found and collaborated withover the years.
And now we have our own littlepocket of, of a little touring
community that we now, we were aone stop shop in service to Many
different artists all around theworld right now.
My main clients are Nightmarewho is you mentioned Ben Hogan?
He's a Ben Hogan client rightthere But nightmares my primary
(25:26):
client.
I've been with him now for threeyears, which is amazing I do
peekaboo and again that threeyears with him, which is
amazing, too North America only.
I am doing Dimension, Subfocus,and Wilkinson.
It's a new one as of recent.
But I'm only doing NorthAmerica, Logistics and Touring
for those three.
(25:47):
And then I am what's, I am thetour director for side piece
house music at project.
what that entails is I don'tnormally go out on the road with
them.
I have other people that go outfor him, but I handle all the
logistics overall.
So there is another tour managerthat goes out for me, but I
still oversee and handle all thelogistics and I make the
(26:08):
playbook.
I, I,
Nik (26:11):
you have minions now that you just send out to do your
work for you while you get tokick back at the office and,
have a nice little, you know,not a little night in.
I see.
Aren Goldberg (26:20):
I, I, I would never want to call them minions,
you know, they're, they're, but,but, um, they, no, no,
Nik (26:27):
badass fucking road warriors.
Aren Goldberg (26:29):
they're, they're incredible road warriors
themselves too, but I'm verythankful to have them in the
mix.
but yeah, that, that's thespread right now it's incredible
and surprisingly enough.
Uh, it does sound like a lot.
It is a lot, but I still have alife.
I still find a way to make itall work.
Nik (26:44):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, let's, let's talk aboutthat because, just before we
were getting on, were talkingabout how you just came off of,
a run of shows and are justcatching up energetically, from
life on the road and from, fromthe physical demands of that.
and I think that's a very, uh,Just a very real thing.
You know, we've talked aboutthat a lot on the shows,
(27:04):
especially with like the heaviertouring artists.
How, how do you maintain yourphysical health and energy when
you're, you know, on this likewild touring schedule?
Aren Goldberg (27:16):
I will tell you it's very difficult.
I mean, everyone's different.
Again, I keep saying that, but,you know, that, that is the
reality of it.
It is a work in progress for me,and I'm, I'll be the first to
admit that I'm trying very hardto find a balance.
It's been one of my biggestthings that I've been working
towards over the past year.
as of right now, you know, I'mjust trying to prioritize
getting rest at home.
(27:37):
When you're home during theweek, You know, that's the time
where you're not having to leavea show at two or three in the
morning and then have to get tothe airport by like 6 30 to
catch an 8 a.
m.
flight.
You know, I'm, I'm not, this isthe time where I'm not running
myself absolutely just to the,to the bone.
(27:58):
I'm not running myself dry here,you know, and I'm, this, this is
time where I actually canregulate my bedtime and I can
regulate what I'm eating.
It's very hard to eat on theroad because a lot of times
you're in, you're in transit,you don't have time to think
about it.
you could have situations pop upleft and right, you know, but
the second you have a moment tobreathe, something else pops up,
you gotta go run away, and thenyou blink, and it's two hours
(28:19):
later, and you've missed yourwindow to eat, you know, I think
the biggest thing for myselfduring, during, uh, this time
is, Monday through Thursday, Ihave to stick to a routine.
And if I don't, I'm going toburn out and I've done it.
I've run into situations overthe past five years where,
especially after COVID happened,you have to the pandemic, the
landscape changed of like, justreally taking care of yourself.
(28:42):
You know, if you don't, if youdon't take the time to, really
like, strengthen your immunesystem and your physical health,
then you're not doing thingsthat just.
Generally promote a healthylifestyle and a healthy regimen
ahead of time.
You're just not going to bestrong enough to go out on the
road.
You know, if you get sick on theroad and you can't go do these
shows you're not getting moneyYou can't get paid if you don't
(29:04):
get paid.
You can't live, you know, yougotta you gotta give yourself
that insurance During the weekand you just have to stick to
the schedule.
It's pretty much black and whiteat this point.
You know, if you're not doingwhat you need to do during the
week to take care of yourself,you're just in for a bad time.
Nik (29:21):
Yeah.
Yeah.
That was a big thing that Iworked with Sippy on.
She was the first, client that Ihad that was like mid headlining
tour and had me in her corner,you know, just specifically as a
life coach mindset coach.
And that was the big thing thatI remember telling her in the
beginning.
I was like, yo, like you're,you're fucking F one car, right?
(29:44):
Or like you get to decide whatkind of car you are.
Like you're, you're in the race,right?
Right.
Do you want to be a Honda Civicand do you want to treat
yourself like that?
Are you going to like get nosleep and just be putting
fucking junk in your body andnot only physical energy, but
like your mental energy,emotional energy, spiritual
energy.
You know, we are, we have totake care of the vessel and it's
(30:04):
like, Treat yourself like an F1car.
That was the theme that wereally ran with.
And it was like, all right, howdo I keep my, my mindset really
fucking sharp?
She's coming back and doing, youknow, red light therapy and
hitting the gym and being like,okay, cool.
We're, we're going to take careof the body really good.
Because we're back on the roadon Thursday and we're going to
be out till four in the morning,every night.
And, and when I come back, Ialso have to be creative, right?
(30:26):
I also got to come back and nowI got, now I'd still need to
make music Monday throughWednesday and have some fucking
energy for that.
So like so much of our work wasjust like, get fucking dialed in
because that lifestyle is fastand you're running a fucking F1
race, you know?
Aren Goldberg (30:43):
Yeah, no kidding
Nik (30:44):
you want to, not only, not only if you want to survive, but
if you want a fucking podium andyou want to win, you got to
treat yourself like that.
All right.
Aren Goldberg (30:51):
100%.
I mean, it's it is just at thispoint as you get older doesn't
get easier either.
You know, I'm 30 right now.
I'm turning 31 this year.
I'm very, very fortunate to havethe position that I do at this
age.
I have colleagues that are tourmanagers, you know, younger than
me, older than me, but a lot ofthe people I learned from are
older than me, you know, andthey've all told me the same
(31:15):
thing.
It's pretty much just take careof yourself.
The older you get, the harder itis to recover, you know, but if
you're in good shape and youcan, and you can really do what
you can to mitigate those longnights, during the week, you
know, and not have to feel likeyou're playing catch up for two
to three days.
It's all the work you do rightnow,
Nik (31:33):
Yeah.
Aren Goldberg (31:34):
you know,
Nik (31:34):
Yeah.
And I share that same sentimentfor artists that aren't even
touring yet.
It's like, don't wait till youstart touring to put the habit,
the healthy habits in place.
Get those healthy habits dialedin now, right?
start really taking care of yourvessel, right?
Your mind, your body, and yourspirit.
Start like really priming thatnow so that when you do go on
(31:56):
the road, like you're ready forit.
Right.
Aren Goldberg (31:58):
a hundred percent,
Nik (31:59):
if you're, you're about to blow the fuck up and be the
biggest internationally touringDJ in the, in the world.
Right.
Aren Goldberg (32:05):
a hundred percent.
Nik (32:06):
and, and when that time comes, you're going to be ready
for it because we do see itsometimes too, where it's like,
people aren't ready for it.
and it's a real bitch slap tothe face with like, Oh, wow.
Like this is actually hard.
And, you know, we see it all thetime with artists.
That's like, yeah, you can.
Kind of party your way throughit for a little while and be
like, all right, let's just,let's just kind of, you know,
(32:27):
use that social lubricant andall of that, but it's going to
catch up with you.
It doesn't last very long foranybody.
Aren Goldberg (32:33):
No, it does not.
It does not.
The other best way to mitigate,you know, even when you're on
the road on the weekends, itdoesn't have to just stop during
the week on the weekends.
You know, if you get to a pointwhere you're able to ask for a
hospitality writer, that'ssubstantial, you know, opting
out of, sweets or, unhealthyfood and, and adding in like a
veggie tray or a fruit tray, orcold press juice, you know, like
(32:56):
thankfully I'm working withpeople now that care About their
well being so it doesn't have tojust end during the week, you
know Like I said, it's so hardto eat when you're on the road
So if you can request healthysnacks or meals when you're at
the venues absolutely takeadvantage of that.
Nik (33:13):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Now I can, I'm trying to putmyself in your shoes of.
Managing so much stuff.
It sounds honestly stressful asfuck.
I don't think I would be cut outfor it.
I am not the most like organizedlogistical person.
You have to have the energeticcapacity to hold a lot, not only
with all the, you know, thelogistics and the spreadsheets
(33:35):
and the finances, but also allof the people and the
relationships.
And you know, I've, I've been onthe road.
I was a manager.
I did a little, you know, alittle, we'd go out with the
artists every now and then alittle bit of tour managing.
Yeah, there's a lot ofpersonality.
There can be a lot of ego.
There can be a lot of unforeseenthings that just pop up fires to
put out.
Right.
it can be fucking stressful.
(33:56):
How do you handle the stress?
Aren Goldberg (34:01):
It's a great question I think the best way To
do it The stress is always havea plan always have a backup plan
always think about Like, and,and something, I don't think
everyone's built the same waywhen it comes with knowing how
to manage expectations ormanaging personalities or
figuring that out, because atthe end of the day to another
(34:23):
unwritten job title that doescome up with tour managers is
you're kind of almost in asense, you're kind of like an
adult babysitter in some way, atleast with least, at least in
electronic music, I can say thatother genres, not so much, you
know, it's pretty black andwhite with, with responsibility.
And there's less tolerance for alot of this stuff, but at least
in our industry.
How it's evolved over time, youknow, like within the electronic
(34:44):
space, I find myself having tomanage, uh, people's, you know,
feelings a lot of the time too,because ultimately someone
doesn't feel good, they're justgoing to quit and then I have to
go find someone else and inthese days too, it's hard to
find good people to do a lot ofthese jobs.
There is a, there are a lot ofvery qualified operators and
technicians all across the U Sall across the world.
(35:06):
But.
To get someone so specific foryour specific artist and team,
you know, you gotta really belucky to find that one person.
I'm very fortunate to find thosepeople.
But what comes with it though,um, you know, for me, managing
stress specifically, I just havevery specific timelines for
(35:28):
managing my own expectation.
Like, I can only withstandsomething for so long before I
have to keep moving.
On a certain thing.
And I have to, I I'm alwaysfaced with split second
decisions.
it is very situational, but alot of the time, if something's
not moving quick enough, I haveto know how to pivot or make the
(35:48):
best decision.
Even if it's not a good one, Ihave to know how to make the
best decision to minimize theimpact to the artist
Nik (35:55):
Yeah.
Aren Goldberg (35:55):
team as a whole, or in general, at the end, like
for, for me.
when I need to just like to havean escape from all the shit
that's happening, I usuallybring a second monitor with me.
most venues will have this too.
Uh, they'll have like aproduction office or a touring
or, or tour office that'sseparate from the green room.
I'll usually set myself up inone of these quiet rooms.
(36:18):
So if I need a place to justescape from the madness, I have
a place to go and I'll set up mysecond monitor and I'll watch
some hockey and that's what Ido, you know, and, and even if I
can't sit and watch it for toolong, I'll sit down, I'll take
10, 15 minutes, open up mylaptop, I'll have my work on my
main computer and then off tothe side on my other monitor, I
have a hockey game and it justbrings me down and that's how I
(36:40):
manage mine and once I get likea little bit of a, an escape
from, from what I'm dealingwith.
Cause it's such high intensity,sensory overload at a lot of
these events.
You know, I need something thatis familiar and calming to me.
So that is what I do in thoseinstances, especially again,
when it comes to dealing with,let's say the crew's tired and
everyone's, everyone's tired andfeeling beat up and you know,
(37:04):
tensions are high.
It doesn't happen all the time.
Thankfully with the teams I'mon, I work with some pretty
incredible people.
I'm very fortunate.
But, you know, if you need alittle escape, it's good to have
a backup plan or a place you cango retreat to for a few just to
reset.
But I try really hard to not letmyself get too reactive to a
situation.
(37:25):
I like to take a, take a moment,take a deep breath, take a step
back, look at everything fromthe top down and make a decision
from there.
But it took a long time for meto get to that point.
I've trudged through the mud.
I've been in situations early onin my career where I can't
necessarily do that right thenand there, but, I'm very
fortunate that I, I learned somepretty good stress management
(37:46):
techniques from a very youngage, and I just applied it to
where I'm at now.
Nik (37:50):
Yeah, you've put, you've put some miles in, you've put
some miles in.
It definitely sounds likesomething that, that comes with
just time and experience, butyeah, I love that suggestion of
having kind of a safe space thatyou can turn to just to get, get
out of the madness.
I mean, that's actuallysomething I even worked with
Sipion as well, where as anartist.
You're in the green room andeverybody's in there and it's a
(38:12):
big party, but sometimes that'snot the best headspace for an
artist to be in.
Aren Goldberg (38:16):
Oh,
Nik (38:16):
that was something that like I had her start doing, it's
like, Hey, step outside andlike, you know, like go out and
find a little corner to justlike get calm and get
Aren Goldberg (38:25):
exactly.
Nik (38:26):
so that when you go on stage, you're not just going
from like one second, you know,having a conversation with
somebody who's like, have alittle, a little five minute
window to like, Prepare yourselffor delivering the best set
possible.
so, you know, we, we startedcreating that for her as well.
which, you know, was really,really effective for sure.
Aren Goldberg (38:44):
I think having that breathing room is so
critical, you know, taking 5 to10 minutes for yourself.
It's not going to change theshow.
If you're not there for 5 to 10minutes, you know.
Yeah,
Nik (38:56):
You know, we were just talking about this before we
started recording, but there isthat very, very true reality
about the heightened dopamineserotonin release, the wild
show, you know, the, theexplosion of energy that you
experience playing the show, andthen for a lot of people, it's
(39:20):
like, okay, well now you'reeither back at, The hotel by
yourself that night and you justwent from playing in front of
thousands of people to now beingcompletely alone or the
weekend's over and now, youknow, one minute you're the
fucking king of the world onstage or the queen of the world
on stage and everybody ischanting your name.
And now you're back in yourapartment on Tuesday, taking out
(39:40):
the fucking trash by yourself.
And it can be a bit of a headfuck right that that roller
coaster.
What's that experience like foryou, and how do you find
yourself, navigating the highsand the lows of being on the
road and, and being off?
Yeah,
Aren Goldberg (39:58):
know, I mean you said it perfectly you could be
in this incredible environmentcome off an amazing show.
You just worked 18 to 20 hoursputting this spectacle together.
Energy's high, artists arehappy, everyone's cheering,
screaming, the sound of thecrowd, the team coming together
at the end of the show, be like,that was amazing, I can't wait
(40:18):
for it, like, just the, just thethrill of traveling, you know,
and all the pieces that cometogether with that, it brings
you to such a heightened senseof, self, you know, when you're,
when you're doing that.
And so to come back after beingin such a high energy
environment to just a baseline,It's just quiet and there's
nothing happening around you andit's just you and you can just
(40:41):
hear the wind or whatnot.
Going from 100 to 0 is veryjarring sometimes, thankfully
for me from such a young age,you know, I've been able to
adapt to any environment justfrom what I'm used to.
But for me, I usually takeMonday to be by myself to come
down from everything.
Tuesday I'll go out and try tosee someone or like go out to
dinner with somebody to let alittle bit out of my, of my
(41:03):
energy level again from what I,what I've had written over from
the weekend.
And then Wednesday and ThursdayI'll usually lock back into the
work and prep for the weekendagain.
But having something to lookforward to and like some sort of
hobby.
You know, this is such ageneral, recommendation that I'm
sure a lot of people have, like,you know, having something at
home to look forward to kind ofjust helps you keep the momentum
(41:23):
of the energy that you'reexperiencing.
And it helps you just place itinto something a little bit more
tangible and easy to digest.
Because I think constantly beingon the road and constantly
touring can definitely mess withyou.
But coming off such a highenergy activity and then
bringing it into a differentvertical or whole different
activity, I think is extremelyhealthy, I think that that's
(41:45):
what keeps you from, you know,getting too depressed or feeling
like you're missing out on a bigdopamine hit.
You know, you can take thatenergy and put into something
else.
That's also exciting in yourlife.
Nik (41:55):
totally.
Yeah.
It sounds like you kind of haveyour weekends on Monday and
Tuesday.
So still having a little bit ofa weekend for yourself, right?
Like you're working, you're infull work mode during the kind
of normal person's weekend.
So you get to have a little bitof space, a little bit of
recovery for you, like mostpeople do.
And, and I think that piece ofhaving, some real life, Hobby or
(42:20):
just something to, put your timeand your energy into that.
I'd say for artists also, isn'tmusic production, isn't just
getting back in the DAW andworking on music.
And, you know, maybe some peopleare just obsessed with it and
addicted to it.
And, and that's great if that'swhat they want to do.
But I really, really advocatethat for people as well, you
know, artists specifically.
(42:41):
It's like, yeah, I got to, youknow, go play fucking pickleball
or go skateboarding and just dosomething that's going to
actually get you, you know, justto go be a normal person for
even one day out of the week.
Cause you're
Aren Goldberg (42:51):
Exactly.
Nik (42:52):
the other fucking six days, you know, you're not
Aren Goldberg (42:54):
No,
Nik (42:54):
life,
Aren Goldberg (42:55):
no.
Nik (42:56):
bit of like normalcy in there, I think can go a long
way.
Aren Goldberg (42:59):
I think so too.
I mean, literally sense ofcommunity and friends or
everything.
I mean, for me, like, I'm just anaturally extroverted person.
You know, I think over time I'vedigressed a bit on that just
because I'm always around peopleconstantly.
I do value my alone time, but Ialso do, I kind of teeter, I
teeter the line these days, somepeople might just want to be
(43:20):
alone for a whole week beforegoing back out and that's fine
for me, paying mind to yourfriendships and, and your
family.
Or loved ones, finding time tobalance that and having those
things to look forward to willonly, help strengthen your mind
to be sharper when you're goingout on a show, when those things
are also intact.
Because it's very, very easywhen the further you get down to
(43:40):
the space and the more you do,progress in your career in music
or entertainment as a whole,it's really easy for your
personal life to kind of takethe back burner.
Speaking from experience, I'velost many friends,
relationships.
I've tarnished relationshipswith my own family, just from
doing this job and, you know,making sure that you, pay
(44:02):
attention to the, to thosethings as well.
And you're, you're putting asmuch energy.
Into that side of your life ontop of your professional life is
extremely important andsomething honestly I wish I did
more of as I was growing in thisspace, but, uh, I don't regret
anything.
I, I'm very happy with where I'mat now.
It took a long time to get, Towhere I'm at now, but I think
(44:23):
more than ever, the balance isjust so, so important now that I
feel like I'm at a place where,I'm sustaining a living because
of it, you know,
Nik (44:32):
Yeah.
Yeah.
I was literally just talking tomy girlfriend about this earlier
today where like, you can't pourfrom an empty cup and you really
have to make sure that your owncup is full.
You really have to make surethat you're good, especially
when you are the artist, you arethe entire business.
You're the one that's creatingthe music.
You're the one that's getting onthe plane and flying.
(44:53):
It's like you really have toprioritize your own fulfillment,
your own happiness, your ownhealth.
If you're pouring so much out atsome point, you're going to
become tapped and it is thosethings like having a healthy
relationship with your family,having a good relationship with
your friends, taking care ofyour body, having some
activities that just bring youjoy that aren't just work.
(45:14):
That's the stuff that fills ourcup.
and it's so easy to lose sightof that though.
It's so easy to, you know, justbe so focused on the goal.
but yeah, at some point, youknow, at some point the, the
well is going to run dry andthere's not going to be a lot
to, to really pull from, youknow?
So yeah, really, really, reallygood advice.
Aren Goldberg (45:33):
Again, it kind of plays back into the whole thing
of like, as you keep gettingolder too, it's harder to
maintain.
Everyone in your personal lifegets busy, you know, making
friends can also sometimes be aharder thing for some people,
you know, as you get older,especially if you travel so
much, you know, people aren'tgoing to know when you're
available or free, so you kindof have to go take the extra
step to really go foster thoserelationships when you're back
(45:54):
home in the short amount of timeyou have, you know, and I know
sometimes a lot of people arereally tired after they've just
traveled for two to three days,you know, you're coming back
from an international trip oryou're coming back from two days
of no sleep and all you want todo is just relax and you know,
it's good to, it's important todo that, but you know, Also make
sure, again, that plays into thepart of, if you take care of
yourself during the week, thoserecovery times, you know, are
(46:17):
going to be minimized so you cango back out and, uh, really
nurture and, foster thoserelationships that are important
to you as well.
Nik (46:23):
yeah, for sure.
You know, so you, you've been inthe industry for a long time.
I've been in the industry for along time.
I'll speak for myself.
I definitely, I think aftergoing to so many shows and being
at so many festivals and it'slike for sure in the beginning
of the, of my career, it waslike, Oh my God, this is so rad.
Like getting to go to backstageat all these shows and all of
(46:45):
it.
at some point for me, it wasalso kind of like, damn, like,
all right, I've kind of seenthis and I've done this for a
minute and it doesn't definitelylike lost the allure and became
work, you know, like the, the,the dream and the thing that was
like the fucking passion.
It does, it does become workafter a while.
I think certain, you know, Ithink artists run into this too.
It's like, that's the dream isthe tour.
(47:06):
And at some point it's like thatit's kind of the day job, you
know, do you feel like you'vehit those phases as well, where
it's like, all right, this is.
more work than, play, I guess.
What's your experience been withthat?
Aren Goldberg (47:21):
Yes, the short answer is yes, it has for me,
but there's a way for me to keepmy spark.
I honestly think that, At theend of the day, everyone loves
this, Loves what they're doing.
You know, if they do to somedegree and if they don't admit
it to you, they're lying to you.
Because if they don't want, ifthey don't like what they're
doing, they wouldn't be here andthey'd think they'd go pursue
something else at this point.
You know?
Nik (47:41):
Mm
Aren Goldberg (47:44):
The veils lifted per se at some point, what was
once a very exciting opportunityto be backstage or see
everything from the front,looking out, at one point that
was super exciting and literallyfilled my cup more than anything
else could, you know, and now itis, it is a job to me.
It is that, however, withelectronic music specifically,
I.
(48:05):
I love it.
Flat out.
I mean, I've been involved inthis community from a very young
age.
I was pirating music when I wasin elementary school.
I was sneaking into raves when Iwas in middle school and high
school.
I mean, it has been such anintegral part of my life.
I've honestly, I feel like thesoundtrack to my life, I could
(48:27):
pick any electronic music songand I'd have something for every
instance.
For me, it takes a very specifickind of artist or show for me to
get excited these days,admittedly.
However, I seek those out.
In my spare time, there's veryspecific shows that I will go
to.
(48:47):
And I'll go in the crowd and Iwill have just as much of a fun
time as I did as if I was 16,17, 18 years old again, you
know, I mean, it just, there'svery specific kinds of shows
that will make me feel excitedagain.
And I think those get meinvigorated.
And that in turn allows me tonot feel jaded doing my job.
Nik (49:07):
yeah, dude.
That, that right there, that waswhen I had my first moment of,
you know, I guess kind ofgetting over it, you know?
Where I was like, damn, like,I've been to, you know, Control
so many fucking times, you know,it's like
Aren Goldberg (49:18):
Yeah,
Nik (49:19):
been to the club so many times or the shows but What I
realized that was exactly, itwas like, Oh, I need to get back
in the fucking crowd.
It was like, that's why I fellin love with this in the first
place.
It was like, okay, I'm going tohave a night out where like, I'm
going to literally leave myphone in the car and I'm going
to get on the dance floor.
I'm going to shake my goddamnass.
Like nobody's watching and justlose myself and have fun and
(49:39):
really go see an artist that Ireally, really love.
You know, like we have Ericprids coming to town in a couple
of weeks.
I'm like, I'm going to fuckingprids and I'm, I'm going ham.
You know what I mean?
Like I'm going to be just GAlike.
getting down, having fun, and weneed those.
I think artists need those aswell.
I think every artist had thatexperience of being at a
festival and having their mindblown and you know, like, yeah,
(50:00):
you got to remember why youstarted this shit in the first
place.
And as you said, like reallykeep that, keep that spark
alive.
Yeah,
Aren Goldberg (50:09):
wasn't doing that, I think it'd be much
harder for me to find a job.
Enjoyment, I think at thispoint, I mean, but everyone, you
know, everyone has a differentgoal.
Like some people are in thisjust because it is just a job to
them and that's fine.
You know, those people can existtoo.
But for me, I can speak formyself.
Like, I mean, I, I think it'sincredible that, we have the
(50:32):
opportunity to even be in thisspace, it's a very grueling,
demanding space to work inentertainment as a whole,
specifically electronic music.
It's such a niche.
Field, you know, to, to land it,to land a, an exciting career
in, in this environment.
But I think for what it's worth,you know, the fact that I can
even have time to go find thesekinds of shows in between the
(50:58):
madness of what I have, like,I'm very fortunate and blessed
to be able to do it.
And sometimes even, you know,what I'll do to maintain my
level of excitement as well as.
You know, a lot of the clientsthat I'm on or that I work with
now, thankfully, you know, wetour all over the world
collectively.
Uh, and you know, when I get achance to go to a festival, I
(51:19):
always, my first thing is toalways look at the lineup of
who's playing and I will try, ifI have the ability to, I will
always try to go early and Iwill always try to go into the
crowd and watch at least oneset.
And even if I'm just standingthere, just enjoying it, even if
I'm just standing there, justtaking it in, if I move, it's
(51:39):
not like my favorite thing inthe world.
It does give me energy, youknow, I just like seeing what's
going on.
I like seeing people innovate.
I like seeing what other peopleare doing because it also gives
me inspiration to keep findingnew, unique ways to elevate my
own career and my own clientscareers.
So
Nik (51:58):
yeah.
Aren Goldberg (51:58):
I, I like getting myself out in the field and I
like walking around.
I like getting the energy.
I like feeling the energy of allthe patrons.
I like seeing all theactivations at the shows.
It just, I like learning.
I like, I'm, I'm always learningwhile doing this job and I feel
like being able to travel andexperience these kinds of shows
and go into all these thingsjust keeps me excited and always
(52:19):
learning to reapply into whatI'm doing now.
Nik (52:22):
Yeah, yeah, well that's the thing that I've always loved
about you is that you have aspark and You have an infectious
personality.
That's really really nice to bearound, you know yeah, I think
that That is such a hugesuperpower and, you know, I'm
(52:44):
sure it's played a huge role inhelping you get as far into this
industry as you have.
There really is something to besaid for that.
And, um, yeah, man, it's likekeeping your own sparklet, you
know, just like being a positiveperson that is excited about
what they're doing and, and isgrounded also in gratitude, you
know, recognizing how lucky weare to be able to do this, to
(53:06):
have had careers in thisindustry.
Like I said in the beginning ofthe call, like you're one of my
favorite people in the musicindustry.
You know, there are a lot ofpeople out there that, have
really big egos and it's notnecessarily the funnest people
to be around.
Aren Goldberg (53:21):
No.
Nik (53:21):
you're one of those people that are just like, dude, this
guy's fucking rock solid, total.
Amazing badass and, just superhonored, honestly, that, you
were down to come on the podcasttoday and, and share some, some
wisdom with
Aren Goldberg (53:35):
Oh, the feeling is mutual, man.
I mean, I really appreciate thewords.
I, I mean, I've always valued,you know, the insight and like
excitement that you also havefor the space too.
I mean, you've been a part ofthis community for like, I mean,
you told me just now you've beena part of it longer than I've
even been around doing it.
Before I even knew that I wantedto be a part of it, you were
already involved with it, youknow, and the fact that you've
(53:56):
met so many people across thetime doing this and, and have
watched people come and go inthis business.
And you can still say that forme, that means a lot.
So I really appreciate that.
Nik (54:07):
Hell yeah, man.
well, dude, thanks again fortaking the time to hop on
really, really excited to sharethis with everybody.
And, I'm sure I will catch yousoon as you are traveling
around.
Aren Goldberg (54:18):
Oh, I can't wait.
I can't wait for that moment,man.
Thank you so much for having me.
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