ARTA MAJD (Music Attorney) - How To Negotiate Better Deals

Arta Majd is an entertainment attorney who has worked with labels, independent artists and industry professionals to protect their rights, negotiate better deals, and avoid the common pitfalls that ruin careers. In this episode, he breaks down the biggest mistakes artists make when signing contracts, why legal knowledge is just as important as branding and marketing, and when you should bring a lawyer onto your team.

We also dive into the realities of the music business—how deals are structured, the hidden clauses that can lock you in for years, and how to navigate negotiations like a pro. Whether you’re an up-and-coming artist or already deep in the industry, this episode is a must-listen if you want to protect your future and take full control of your career.

Follow and connect with Arta here:
https://www.artamajd.com
https://www.instagram.com/artamajdesq

Follow Nik Cherwink here:
https://www.instagram.com/nikcherwink

And visit my site to join the mailing list or book a free coaching call:
https://www.nikcherwink.com

Episode Transcript

Arta (00:00):
when people get way too stoked on a deal, they might get
all jazzed on all these, like,marketing campaigns and then the
deal gets sent and then there'snothing about it in there.
And then, you know, the labelmight be like, yeah, yeah, of
course we're going to market it.
It's in our best interest to,but then I'm like, well, if
you're actually promising this,then why don't we put this in
whether it's a minimum 2, 000spend or a minimum 250, 000
spend, whatever it may be.
I'm like, if you are committingat least this much, let's put it

(00:21):
in the deal then,

Nik (00:34):
What's up everybody.
Welcome to the headliner mindsetpodcast.
Today's guest is a musicbusiness attorney who used to be
the head of business.
business and legal affairs atSteve Aoki's record label,
Dimmock.
He now runs his own practice,helping both emerging and
established artists navigate thecomplicated world of negotiating
legal contracts, making sureeveryone knows what they are
signing and are getting a fairdeal.

(00:55):
This is Arta Maj.
My man, welcome to the show.
I'm so stoked to have youbecause you are our very first
lawyer that we've had on theheadliner mindset podcast.
So welcome.
Thank you for being here.

Arta (01:08):
I am honored.
Thank you for having me.
Honestly, this this means a lot.
Wow.
That's really cool.
Okay, that's great to know Yeah,no, i'm so happy to be here.
I appreciate the opportunity Um,i'm really excited.
So thank you.

Nik (01:19):
Yeah, you know, it's, it's about time.
Like I've talked to so manyartists, we've talked to labels,
we've talked to managers, butthe lawyer is a very, very
important player on the team.
And it's somebody that noteverybody has.
It's kind of like a, a part ofthe team that, um, a lot of
people don't really add until abit later, you know?

(01:41):
but we also hear all of thesehorror stories of like, Young
artists kind of getting fuckedover because they're signing
contracts that they don't reallyknow what they mean.
So I'm really excited to diveinto this episode with you where
we can, you know, unpack, somecontract stuff, get into some of
the nitty gritty of like themusic business and the lawyer
side of things.
but before we get there, I justwant to hear a little bit about

(02:01):
your background.
Tell me about your history inthe music industry and how you
ended up becoming a lawyer.

Arta (02:06):
So I was always into music like from a young age and as I
got older I feel like there wasa lot of like family pressure
right to do Something that isyou know, I guess professional
right like i'm persian.
There's like this running jokewhere they're like, if you're a
Persian kid of immigrantparents, you have three life
paths.

(02:26):
You can either be a doctor, alawyer, or the family failure,
right?
And so I always told myself froma young age.
I was like, man, that's sostupid.
Like I want to be in the arts.
I want to be doing creativestuff.
Like I don't want to be sittingin an office.
It's so dry and boring.
But like as I got older and Isaw like kind of the reality of
the music industry and it's abeautiful thing.
I love the music industry.
It's great.
But it really takes a toll onyou.

(02:46):
And it really takes a lot,whether it's the recording or
the touring, all the differentthings and all the different
people, the coming and going.
Um, and I was like, you know,I'm, I'm Bit of a homebody and I
really like reading and writingand so I was like what if I can
just help people Do what theywant to do but still get my
creative outlet because I I meanas you can see the stuff is not
just collecting dust I still getto have fun and make music and I

(03:09):
still get to Um be creative liketo me writing lyrics is like
writing a contract so when I wasThinking about all of this and I
was like, you know what I thinkI want to be a music lawyer Like
I didn't go into law school Notknowing what my path is going to
be from like before I evenapplied I was like, I want to be
a music lawyer And then I uh, Igot into it.
I wanted to sign up for all themusic related classes And then

(03:30):
my my second year I actuallywent and I interned at dimmock.
So steve aoki's label and it waskind of ridiculous because when
I showed up dude, there's likepeople they're dressed like, you
know We are they're like tshirts and hats and hanging out.
I went in in a suit like fullsuit a little briefcase and I
went in there and I was likethese guys there's no way

(03:51):
They're gonna hire me like thisis like what am I doing?
And then they hit me back andthey were like, hey, so can you
start and I was like, uh, yeah,of course You Um, and so, so,
yeah, so that ended up, youknow, being the beginning of,
like, actually getting into theindustry, not just saying I'm
going to be a music lawyer.
And then I was there for awhile.
I kind of like work my way upfrom like intern to legal
assistant to becoming a part oflike business and legal affairs

(04:13):
to actually heading up businessand legal affairs.
And then after my time there, Iended up just continuing, you
know, I ended up getting reallybusy and having a lot of
clients.
So now that I was like,established into the industry, I
was like, I'm going to go focusmore on my own firm.
Um, and so that's what I do now.
And I cover, um, Pretty mucheverything.
Like if it's, if you're a brandnew artist, you're starting out.
I want to talk to you.
If you're already like superestablished or top 10 DJ, I want

(04:35):
to talk to you.
So it's, it's a really fun thingand I feel like I still get to
be creative within the contract.
So, um, that's kind of the, the,the short version.
Yeah.

Nik (04:45):
I love that you came in with a suit and you still got
the job.
Even though, you know, theycould have made that decision.
Maybe this isn't a cultural fit.
Because that was the experiencethat I had.
I somehow, right out of college,got a fucking interview with
like, my dream label, which wewere talking about before the
show started, metal bladerecords, like

Arta (05:07):
Oh dude.
There we go.
Yes.

Nik (05:10):
legendary, record label that put out like every album
from every one of my favoritebands somehow managed to like
find on Craigslist they werehiring.
And I was like fresh out ofcollege where they teach you
like, wear a tie to yourinterview.
And so I go into the labelwearing, you know, button up in
a tie and everything.
And it was like, it was soawkward.

(05:30):
Cause I was like literally theperfect person for the job, but
then coming in there, similarly,everyone's just a bunch of
tatted metal heads.
And I'm like, Oh fuck.
Like, what am I doing?

Arta (05:39):
Like the career development office did not
prepare me for this.

Nik (05:42):
yeah.
Ended up not getting the job.
So moral of the story, firstlesson of the episode, if you
are applying for a job out therein the music industry, or really
anywhere, like, know what theculture is, right?
Maybe you don't need to go inwith a suit and tie, right?
We're kind of taught that, butthat's not always

Arta (05:57):
least ask someone right in this day.
I feel like there's there's noexcuse Like you can't just dm
somebody be like, hey, I saw youwork at demo.
That's so cool.
Like, you know What's it likethere?
What do you guys wear?
Like what you know, what'swhat's something like do some
don'ts like if someone asked methat They were applying for the
job.
I would love to share with them.
I'd be like, yeah, this is whatyou do Don't do what I did Still
worked somehow.

(06:17):
I don't know why but

Nik (06:18):
safe to say if it's a music industry job, 99 percent not
going to want to come in in afull fucking suit and tie.
So, uh, but uh, that's soawesome, man.
What a, what a cool journey.
Obviously, Dim Mock is such a, alegendary brand, a legendary
label.
Um, you must have worked withBrian Linares over there, good

Arta (06:38):
yeah, I saw yeah.

Nik (06:39):
Yeah, I did a, I did a, Yeah, I did an episode with
Brian.
He used to, used to really helprun Dimmock for a long time as
well.
Really cool episode.
You guys can go back and checkout Brian Linares from Dimmock.
But I'm curious right now as,cause I really want to get into
record contracts specificallywith you.
because there's so many artiststhat that's going to be one of
the first things that they'refaced with everybody,

(07:01):
especially, you know, as you'recoming up, you're probably
aiming to get signed.
On one of your favorite recordlabels and then that day is
gonna happen where maybe it'snot your favorite label But like
a label it wants to sign you andit's really fucking exciting
like hell Yeah, you know i'mgonna put out a track got my
first record contract let's likespend some time picking apart a
typical, you know, like singledeal and what are some of the

(07:24):
common terms that people shouldbe familiar with, like When
they're going through a contractand considering, you know, what
to sign.
Cause I think, I think theproblem is most young artists
are going to get the contract.
They're going to be so fuckingexcited about it that they're
going to be like, I can'tbelieve I got a contract and
they're, they're just going tosign whatever was given to them
and not even, not even try tonegotiate anything.

(07:47):
Right.
And so, Let's, let's helpeducate.
Like, what are some things thatyou could probably come back
and, and, you know, push back onand say, Hey, let's change X, Y,
and Z.
What are some of those thingsthat people want to look out
for?

Arta (07:59):
First thing I want to say is it can actually get to be a
pretty long list.
So I want to start with that.
And like, that's part of whyI've become more active on
social media, right?
I'm trying to put out.
I'm putting out more videos sothat people can kind of see
because there's a, it's kind ofa very long list, but, um,

Nik (08:15):
is so great.
I got to dig through yourInstagram and just like watch a
handful of your videos and youguys go follow Arda.
His shit is so, so good.
Really, really good advice onthere.
So definitely someone you wantto be following.

Arta (08:26):
Appreciate you.
Thank you.
But yeah, I'd say one of thebiggest things is when you're
talking about like exclusivity.
I mean, like, I mean, I'm justtrying to think about a contract
from the top down, right?
Like, one of the things thatthey talk about a lot of things
is like term and exclusivity,like, how long is the deal going
to go on for and how long areyou going to be exclusive for?
And a lot of times people justget so excited.
Like you said, it's so accurate.

(08:47):
People get so excited by thefact that it's just a record
deal that they don't care.
They'll just sign it and they'llbe in.
But I'm like, well, you know, Ifyou're delivering like 12 tracks
and it's like dragging out for areally long time You could be
missing other opportunities atother labels At that same time
because you might think it's agreat look for you to be like
having other singles here andthere other collabs The label
could shut it down if you'retied into like an exclusive

(09:09):
deal, right?
So one way to counteract that iswith step outs So let's say
you're exclusive to a label for12 months or 24 months or
whatever

Nik (09:16):
Is that, is that a common, is that a common thing that you
see is that labels are askingartists to be exclusive to them
for a certain amount of time?

Arta (09:24):
I feel like it's like loosened up as of like recent,
but from like, I mean, I've seensome of the like famous, uh,
music related lawsuits areexactly about that where you
have like an artist that has todeliver like five albums or
seven albums or whatever.
And until they make thesedeliveries, they can't go
anywhere else or do anythingelse.
And the label might want them tofit a certain sound or fit a

(09:46):
certain look.
And the artist is like, look,like, I'm tired of this.
Like, I want to try doing thisor I want to try releasing
elsewhere.
So like one of the ways to fightthat is like when you, when you
ask for the step outs and you'relike, Hey, like in that, let's
say I do have to give you, Fivetracks 12 tracks, whatever let's
say for example in a 12 monthperiod I want to have the
freedom to drop like two singleson outside labels or just

(10:06):
independent release during thattime So in that way you have a
little bit of flexibility, youknow because like one of the
scariest things in general withwith Record deals.
I feel like it's just gettingtied down for too much and for
too long that's a broadstatement But I feel like that's
something that some people don'trealize the implications of when
they actually sign up

Nik (10:25):
So exclusivity is really the word that we're looking out
for, right?
Exclusivity meaning that like,okay, you have to exclusively
release with us.
Right, now what I've seen incontracts is usually options.
Can you talk about, like, what'san option?
What does that mean?
Um, you know, I think a lot ofthe listeners are getting, hit
with probably, maybe let's justsay it's a single, you know,
they're signing a single to alabel.

(10:47):
But that single contract mightalso include options.
That's usually what I've seenbefore.
What does that mean?

Arta (10:54):
So an option just means that they it's it's like a deal
extension and most often the wayit's presented It's going to be
at the label's discretion Solet's say you sign let's say you
have a single deal with threeoptions You sign the single with
the label it comes out.
It's doing phenomenal The labelloves it people love it.
And then the label is like, allright We're going to exercise
option one for another single Sonow they're, they exercise that

(11:15):
right to just turn this one songcontract into like a two song
contract.
Let's say that song does reallywell.
They extend again.
They exercise the option.
And then let's say that that oneflops.
The other two have kind of like,you know, fallen off a little
bit.
They might be like, you knowwhat?
We're not going to exercise thefourth option.
We can let you out of your deal.
But like, generally speaking,like, it's like, if you're doing
well, they're probably going towant to keep you around more.

(11:37):
If it's not going well, or like,let's say the relationships
really like bumpy, they might atthat point just choose, but
yeah, we're not going toexercise the option.
Back to being free.

Nik (11:46):
Got it.
So how would it work if I had asingle deal and there was an
option clause on it, and then,let's say I presented the song
to them.
Hey, here's the next song I'mgoing to put out.
And they're like, yeah, we don'treally like that song.
Would I be able to go releasethat song on my own or be able
to go release that song with adifferent label?

Arta (12:05):
Great question and honestly, there's so many
different scenarios that canplay out from that.
Like they might ask you to getto revise that track.
We like actually, you know,let's just try tweaking some
things.
They might ask you to send in adifferent track.
But it doesn't necessarily meanthat you can just go real.
I mean, if it's something thatyou negotiate for in the deal,
like you could, there'ssomething called like first look

(12:27):
where they might say, you sendeverything to us first.
Once we pass, then that becomesa step out.
So now you can go release it ona third party label as long as
you're not like stepping on ourtoes and getting too close to
our release dates.
So it's something that can thatcan happen.
But again, a lot of the dealsmight just have that first part.
You have to send us everything,but not the second, like, Oh

(12:49):
yeah.
And then you can go release itelsewhere.
So again, these are things thatis worth asking for, you know,
negotiating it.
So you're not stuck.

Nik (12:56):
So really, it really comes down to the wording.
This is where you have to belike really meticulous about
what's actually being said inthe contract.

Arta (13:02):
One of the craziest things that I've come across is for,
I've been doing this for years.
Most deals that I have seen donot have a release date or a
release window.
There's so many times people areso stoked to sign to label and
they're like, yeah, cool.
Let's do it Let's do it.
Even if it is 12 tracks or 24tracks or five options And then
they don't think about, I'mlike, dude, you got to put like

(13:23):
a six months from now.
They got it.
I'll be out or six months fromdelivery that I'd be out or 12
months.
Or if you're dead set on releasedates, like you've got your
whole year planned out.
You might be like, hey, it's gotto be December 12th or else.
Right.
most deals I've seen don't havethat.
I would say that's a huge thingto be aware of.
And if you don't have the setdates, at least ask for that
window.

Nik (13:42):
Yeah.
Great point.
Because when a label is the onegiving the contract, The first
draft template that they giveyou is always going to be in
their favor.
It's in their favor to not haveto have the pressure to have a
deadline on the release.
But this is something that I seeon the artist end all the time.
One of the big complaints is,okay, I made this song and then

(14:04):
It took me three months toactually get it signed or four
months to get it signed.
And then it took them anothersix months or another nine
months to put, to put it out.
By the time that song comes out,you wrote it a year and a half
ago.
You wrote it two years ago, thesong's coming out and you're
like, I don't even sound likethat anymore.
This that's not even the shitthat I'm making anymore.

(14:25):
And so a lot of artists comeinto that trap where they're
like, dude, I'm actually noteven excited about this song
because that whole process hastaken so long.
So I'm really glad that youbring that up.
That was something that I did asa manager.
We would always put like a 90day clause in there of like,
okay, cool.
From whenever we signed thiscontract, this song has to come
out within 90 days.
And, um, and that was alwayssomething that we negotiated.

(14:47):
I forget what we, what do youcall that?
I don't, I don't remember whatwe called it back then.

Arta (14:50):
I

Nik (14:51):
like a real, just like a

Arta (14:52):
just release date or release window.
I would say release window Like,you know, it has to be, you can
set it up, whatever works foryour, you know, for each
individual deal.
Um, but yeah, it's almost like asafety net, you know, if I was
going to call it not exactlywhat it's called, say, it's a
safety net.
Make sure you have some kind ofsafety net built in so that,
you're not stuck pushing it outand pushing it because there's

(15:12):
two scenarios that can happenthat are bad.
One is just that they keepdragging it out.
The song still comes out.
But two, I mean, I don't know ifthis happens as much anymore,
but I mean, like we I've heardhorror stories of this even
before I was a music attorneywhere labels would have like
competition.
So they would sign a competingartist and then they don't even
have an intention to really pushthe artist or get them big.

(15:34):
They just want to take thecompetition off the table.
So that every time they get amaster, they just be like, yeah,
we have more notes.
We have more notes and they justkeep dragging out so that their
superstar can blow up withoutsomebody else getting in the
way.

Nik (15:43):
Yeah, yeah.
It's like, technically, once yousign the song, they own, you
know, and I think it's good forpeople to understand, like, what
are you actually signing whenyou sign a record contract?
Right?
Like, what is it that you'resigning over, You're really
signing ownership of that masterrecording over to the label.
You don't own it anymore.
Right?
Really?
It's like they, they own themaster.

(16:05):
They own the master.
They own the record.
Once you sign it over, if youdon't have a release clause,
they can technically also noteven put the song out.
That song could actually nevercome out and they own it.
And there's nothing that you cando about it.
You can't put it out cause theyown it now.
All

Arta (16:17):
the thing.
Like they might pay you and thenyou've given them a song, right?
Contracts, general rule, likethere has to be something for
something, right?
But that, that, that's exactlylike the tricky part right
there.
It's like, well, yeah, we paidyou.
We wanted the song.
Where does it say that we haveto put it out?
Or where does it say we have toput it out while it's relevant?
So.

Nik (16:34):
let's talk about getting paid because I think that's
something that a lot of artistsdon't think about and I'd be
curious as somebody who's seeinga lot of record contracts come
across your desk.
On the kind of entry level,perhaps when people are signing
tracks, they're just excited toeven be signing it excited to
even be associated with thatlabel.

(16:54):
But at some point to the, youknow, for a lot of labels, one,
I don't think a lot of labelsare even worth signing if
they're, if they're kind ofsmaller, it's like if all
they're going to do is put it upon Spotify and not really.
Actually push it.
You can do that yourself, Thewhole point of signing with the
labels that they're going toactually give it some proper
marketing.

(17:14):
So I'm curious about like, whatkind of budgets are you seeing?
Like, are you seeing labelsactually pay and either give an
artist in advance or are theyguaranteeing a certain amount of
marketing budget in thesecontracts?
Like.
Are you seeing that that often?
And what might that look likefor, let's say, a DJ that's
signing a single to, to a label?
Are they actually getting moneyfrom labels is what I'm curious

(17:36):
about.

Arta (17:37):
Some definitely are.
There's a, there's definitely aphrase that a lot of lawyers
use.
They say it depends a lot.
And I don't want to want that tobe my first response, but the
truth is, it depends.
Because I mean, I've seen a goodchunk of deals to where there's
it's just royalty based, right?
Where like, you're not gettingany money up front.
but.
But to your point, these arethings to watch out for like
one, if you are gettingadvanced, sometimes an advanced

(17:59):
seems really amazing until yourealize that it says it's due
after everything's turned in.
So if you happen to pay, youknow, vocalists or producers or
for studio time or all thisstuff, and then they're not
going to pay you until it's likedone, dusted and turned in.
I mean, well, that might be kindof tough for someone who's not
on tour and they might need topay rent next month.
You know what I mean?
And the month after.

Nik (18:20):
you're paying for all of those costs out of your pocket
up front, and then basically thelabels paying you back later.

Arta (18:26):
Yeah.
and so and the other thing tooadvances are just more or less I
mean Fee if someone says we'regiving you a fee like i've seen
vocalists sometimes they'll belike I want this lump amount
It's not recoupable.
That's a fee you're getting paidthat you don't have to pay it
back but advances which are morecommon They are getting paid
back through royalties anywayit's almost like you're getting
like an interest free loan inthat sense.

(18:47):
Right?
but again, the setup can make abig difference.
So, 1, it's like, if you evenhave the advance in the 1st
place, and then 2, if you haveit, what's the payment schedule
like?
You know, like, is, is it goingto get paid at the end or can
you be like, Hey, I want half ofit now and I want half of it at
the end.
So I have something right now,whether it is studio time or
you're going, you know, payingrent or just life expenses and

(19:08):
then marketing funds too.
That's another thing I've seenthat sadly, like, when people
get way too stoked on a deal,the, they might get all jazzed
on all these, like, marketingcampaigns and then the deal gets
sent and then there's nothingabout it in there.
And then, you know, the labelmight be like, yeah, yeah, of
course we're going to market it.
It's in our best interest to,but then I'm like, well, if
you're actually promising this,then why don't we put this in
whether it's a minimum 2, 000spend or a minimum 250, 000

(19:31):
spend, whatever it may be.
I'm like, if you are committingat least this much, let's put it
in the deal then,

Nik (19:36):
Do you find, them willing to, to put their, literally put
their money where their mouthis?
Or do you get pushback on that?

Arta (19:44):
I've seen it go both ways.
Honestly, like, genuinely, I'veseen times where they're like,
we have no idea what thebudget's like, and then I've
seen other times where they'relike, oh, yeah, sure.
That was an oversight.
And I'm like, okay, cool.
And then we put it in.

Nik (19:54):
Yeah.
That's a good catch right thereis like, oh yeah, that's an
oversight.
Just ask, right?
And I think this is where a lotof young artists, a lot of young
artists are just again, kind ofscared.
Like I recently have had someoneask me, okay, is it okay?
Like, I don't want to see himannoying, you know, like, is it
okay?
I'm like, yo, welcome to themusic business.
First off, this is how it works.
You fucking negotiate, right?

(20:15):
You ask for stuff.
Hey, are you willing to do this?
Are you willing to do that?
We got to get over that, likepeople pleasing part.
And this is, this is reallywhere I come in as like a.
Like a mindset coach, you know,it's like, that actually has to
do with how do I see myself andmy worth?
Am I putting the label on apedestal and am I putting myself
below them?
Because then I seem like, oh,I'm, I'm being annoying by

(20:36):
asking.
And it's like, no, no, no.
That's, that's a thing inside ofyou that you got to conquer.
You got to get over, you got torecognize like, Hey, I am a, a
valuable person.
I'm a valuable artist we all geta seat at the table and we get
to negotiate about things.
So.
That work and things that don'twork and we get to ask.
And then the worst thing islike, no, actually we're not
willing to do that, but at leastyou fucking asked.

(20:57):
Right.
And so no playing small, nopeople pleasing, no bullshit.
Like, come on, we're, we're alladults and this is just part of
negotiation.
So you got to ask and you'd besurprised at how many times
people would be like, Oh yeah,sure.
Okay.
No problem.

Arta (21:10):
can't, I can't tell you how much I agree with you on
this.
Honestly, it's really thatsimple.
And I think, like, to add tothat, I think that what people
forget, like, sometimes I haveto break really bad news, like
being an attorney, like, it'spart of your job.
Like, you have to share the goodnews and the bad news.
It's not all just likebutterflies and rainbows.
Like, there's going to be timeswhere there's going to be parts

(21:30):
of a deal that might not bemade.
The Great, but you feel thatthat's like what you really
badly want to do.
So what do we do here?
I think how you ask makes a hugedifference.
And like, for me, that's, that'sa huge thing.
I try to be friendly until Ipretty much have to not be
friendly.
Right.
But like, generally speaking,I'm like, I don't look at it as
like, oh, we were all grabbing.
We're all like, we're allstarving.

(21:50):
We need to Steal this pie away.
I think that we can all be heretogether to grow together and to
make things better together So II i'm like i'm not looking at
them as like they're your enemy.
I'm like dude this is the teamthat's going to be pushing your
track helping you shape yourbrand Uh, you know who knows
where it's going to go in thefuture?
So we don't want to start off ona bad foot.
So even when I have to give badnews I'm, just like if you ask

(22:12):
just be respectful.
It's it's like really reallysimple You might be even if
you're asking for somethinginsane You She's like, Hey, I
feel like I want to do this.
It's important for me.
So like, you know, what do youguys think?
And I think is if you're notbeing like a dick about it, then
yeah, you can definitely makesome progress.
And, you know, like you said,worst case scenario, like they
can say no, but if you don'teven ask, then there, then
you're not, there's no chance.

(22:33):
You're going to get it.
If there was a 150 or 90 percentchance now, it's zero because
you didn't say anything.
Yes.

Nik (22:39):
that I talk to my clients about is really seeing
everything, really, aspartnership.
Just like, what's the energythat you're coming into a
relationship with?
The relationship with in thefirst place, it's almost like
dating.
If you're coming into therelationship, feeling like
insecure or feeling not enough,like that's going to be felt,
you know, what's the, what's theenergy that you're coming into

(23:00):
this with?
Is it that, Oh, we, we all gotto fight and, and, you know,
fight to get as much percentageas we can.
And you're coming in withaggressive energy, like, well,
that's going to set the tone,but a lot of artists are also
coming in with what I wasreferring to earlier as.
Kind of making themselves lesserthan the label.
Like, Oh my God, I'm so lucky tobe signed to this thing.
And also thinking that, well,I'm going to sign to this label

(23:23):
and they're going to take careof everything.
They're going to do all themarketing.
And it's like, no, this is yoursong.
This is your release.
And when you go out to shop fora label, what you're doing is
you're just, you're looking fora partner.
It's like, Hey, I'm putting thissong out.
This is my song.
I'm an artist.
This is my career.
I'm an artist.
I'm going to do everything Ifucking can to make this the
best release.
And when I go out to shoparound, I'm just looking for

(23:44):
like, Hey, who do I want topartner with?
Do you want to get on board withme?
Do we like we're on the sameteam, right?
And so coming at it with thatpartnership kind of attitude
that, you know, we're all on thesame team kind of attitude and
energy, like it should be fun.
It should be great.
Even when it comes to thenegotiations, like, Hey, yeah.
Let's come from an abundancemindset.
We're going to make a bunch offucking money together, right?
Like the songs didn't do greattogether.

(24:04):
Yes.
Like, hell yeah.
what what makes sense?
What feels good for both of us.
Right.
And, and it literally is, it's,it's a mindset and an energy and
an attitude that you get tobring to the whole process.
Yeah,

Arta (24:16):
agree more.
Like, that's, that's the whole,that's the thing.
I think, like, in the industryto, uh, I, I've said it before.
It can take it literally, like,1 person can ruin an
organization.
I've seen that play out.
And so that's the thing.
Like, you put yourself outthere, you're being genuine and
you look at it like, hey, let'sgo together.
And yeah, to an earlier pointthat you made, I think artists
have to remember that in thisday and age, you don't

(24:38):
necessarily need a label as bad.
You know what I mean?
Like, back in the day, like, youknow, decades ago, it might be
much harder to scrape togetherthe money to get, uh, you record
in a, in a studio and tounderstand how and where to
place ads.
But now, um, when people getsuper stoked about a deal and
then I read it over and it'sgarbage, I, I like to, again,

(24:59):
it's the message might be ahorrible message, but I try to
present it with, you know, likepositivity.
I'll be like, look, I just wantto let you know, like, we can
try to push back on all thesethings and, you know, but just
so you're aware, if they're notgoing to slide and you're going
to, this is the best that you'regoing to get close to this.
There's a lot you can do on yourown.
Or with your own team that youknow, you're not you're not

(25:20):
going to be stuck with this so,um

Nik (25:23):
I think one of the big advantages of signing with
labels, and there's only reallya handful of them out there that
have basically.
You know, more than just like,Hey, we can put a track up on
Spotify and put a couple hundredbucks into, into an ad, you
know, it's like, okay, anybodycan fucking do that.
But you do have the Demox outthere or the insomniac records,

(25:47):
you know, where it's like, Hey,if you affiliate with us and we
develop a partnership togetherand we put out some music
together, we got, some showsgoing on.
We can put you on those shows.
Yeah.
You know, uh, a dirty bird or adim mock or, you know, uh, and
June a beat.
So a lot of these labels, theyalso have really established
brands that are throwing partiesand throwing events.
Do you ever see show terms,like, uh, agreements for a

(26:12):
certain amount of shows gettingwritten into contracts?
Or is that more of like ahandshake deal behind the scenes
for some of those bigger

Arta (26:20):
You know, it's funny because I've seen it kind of
play out both ways, but I'veseen I've seen shows built into
deals before.
Sometimes you have to be alittle bit like lighter with the
language.
Like for example, if you'regoing to be like dead set super
fixed on like the release date,like That it is what it is, but
with the shows, you might belike, you know, you're, we're,
you know, we're going to make,you know, let's say, like,
reasonable efforts or bestefforts to get you on like a

(26:44):
label branded show within thenext, you know, 12 months or
within the next 6 months orlike, you know, 3 shows in the
next 18 months or whatever thecombination ends up actually
being, I feel like sometimes thetricky part with that is nailing
it down with like specificitybecause someone might be like,
Oh, well, I want to like openfor this act.
And it's like, well, what ifthey just ended a tour cycle?
Or like, what if they've alreadylike agreed who's going to be

(27:06):
opening for them?
You know what I mean?
So sometimes you have to do it alittle bit more loosey goosey,
but I've definitely seen it likeput in deals before.
And in some situations, itreally makes sense.
And yeah.
In some situations, it'sactually beneficial for
everybody because I mean, thelabel signing their up and comer
and they have their other actthat's going out on the road.
It can definitely be beneficialto have them like, out there,
like, cross promoting

Nik (27:25):
Totally.
Totally.
Let's go back to, you know,signing record contracts.
What are some other things thatpeople should keep an eye out
for?
Yeah.
Yeah.

Arta (27:36):
rights.
And this is a broad statement,but and this can apply to a lot
of different things, but there'stimes you might sign your track.
And the marketing materials areup to the label and the music
video is up to the label and allthis stuff is up to the label.
Well, what if you have certainpolitical beliefs or certain
religious beliefs or just you,you don't want, you know, you're

(27:56):
very conservative in one area oranother and you don't want your,
music to be used in the mostlike sexual or violent scene in
like a major network TV show,you know what I mean?
But then you, you don't have theapproval, right?
So the label might look at itlike, oh, we're going to make so
much money from this license.
And you're like, well.
This actually bothers mepersonally or like tarnishes my
brand.

(28:16):
That's one of so many examples.
Another thing might be like themusic itself or the art.
You might just like sign itover.
It says it's theirs.
It says that they tell you whatto do.
And then you're like, yeah, thisis, this is not the sound that
I, I wanted.
Like this is, this isn't evenmeaningful to me anymore.
So like approvals, likegenerally speaking, I feel like
when I, when I'm on an artistside negotiation, one of the

(28:39):
like.
Broad things that I'll throw outthere is just kind of like
approvals all over the place andjust kind of see what we can,
you know, push for, and worstcase scenario.
If like, the labels beingresistant, you can at the very
least be like, all right, well,how about this?
Like, this is some of theimportant stuff.
Like, I at least want creativecontrol on my masters.
I at least want creative controlover like, third party licenses
and stuff.
But if you guys want a littlebit more flexibility on

(28:59):
marketing, so be it.
Cause you know, in that sense,they probably won't even want to
tarnish their own brand.
So it's not like they're goingto be putting like disgusting
stuff out for marketing.
We can hope, but again, get itin writing.
That's what I say.
I'm like, try to just get it allin writing.
So

Nik (29:13):
Good point.
All right.
What else should people look outfor?
Yeah.

Arta (29:17):
Oh, man, there's just like, there's so many, um,
there's, uh, tricky accounting,creative accounting, as I like
to call it, uh, where, you know,we're talking about recouping
those advances, right?
They're not just throwing youmoney.
They're giving you money nowbased on money.
They're going to generate laterfrom sales and streams.
So I've seen a lot of timeswhere like recoupment might be
set up where as a label is likegenerating money, you know, they

(29:40):
might be like, okay, well, we'regonna recoup this against the
money that you would have made.
But we're gonna keep makingmoney over here And i've also
seen times where like theremight be a scenario where like
recruitment can like push dealsout Um, so I I would say like
the financial terms if you seewords in there that you don't
understand If you don't have thebudget or the time or the care

(30:02):
to hire an attorney, please forthe love of god, just google it
At least google it at least talkto your homie That's also making
music and be like yo, what doesthis mean?
Um to like figure out becauselike at the end of the day like
there's a lot of love andpositivity and relationships
that go into this industry, butMoney is an important component
on this planet And so if you'regoing to be needing to pay for

(30:22):
your expenses You got to makesure that you understand how
you're getting paid Especiallyif you owe a lot of masters or
if you're going to be with alabel for a long time,

Nik (30:31):
Hmm.
One of the things that Iremember seeing back when I was
a manager was, I think, I thinkit was called like, there's like
reserves and then somethingabout like packaging.
I forget the actual term, butthere was, there was, A certain
amount of like money would beheld back.

(30:51):
Just in case, while this islike, they're referring to
physical product, like if thiswas when there were like CDs or
records are being shipped to therecord store from the actual,
you know, physical distributionplant that the CDs might break.
Right.
And so they would reserve acertain amount of money for

(31:13):
like, what would ultimately belike.
Broken CDs and records that justgot fucked up along the process
and that was years ago We'retalking about just purely
digital just redistribution nowBut those terms would still be
in a lot of these contracts

Arta (31:27):
I think the, the, the kind of the foundation to that is
like, having the money toaccount for the breakage, having
to have the money to account forthe loss.
It's like, it's almost like aninsurance policy, like a reserve
against loss.
You know what I mean?
So and and like you said, it'snot really relevant

Nik (31:48):
Right.
It that, yeah.
It doesn't really make senseanymore,

Arta (31:51):
And then that that reminds me to another, um, another term
that's outdated that stays in.
I've seen labels actually getbetter about this, but not 100%.
Is mechanical royalties.
So for a long time, the labelswere like, Hey, we're paying you
advances and royalties and allthis money on the record side.
The mechanicals go to like thewriter publisher.
and so like the artist oftenhaving a stake on the publishing

(32:13):
side, uh, we accept that they'dbe like, okay, pay the
mechanicals at 75%.
We don't care.
well, again, now that it's alllike, you know, it's, it's a
tougher industry nowadays,right?
It's shifted a lot.
And, uh, the justification isjust, it's, it's not really real
anymore.
So sometimes just because it'sbeen happening for a long time.
It'll just say, you know, 75percent of the minimum statutory

(32:33):
rate and it's like, well, whydon't you just ask for 100
percent of the statutory rate?
And again, worst case scenario,they just say no.
But that's 1 of those, like,leftover, like, kind of fossils
from, like, the old, the olddeal that keeps making its
rounds.

Nik (32:47):
And remind me what mechanical royalties are again.

Arta (32:51):
Let's say back in the 90s, you're, like, pressing CDs,
there's going to be, like, afixed rate.
That's set statutorily by the,like, the federal law that's
going to say, like, okay, everytime you print a CD, you have to
give, like, X amount of sense tothe publishers, like the writer,
because that's another thing,too, in the industry.
I was, I have to remind peoplethere's there's 2 sets of rights
in every track.
You have what you hear.

(33:12):
So, like, the master, therecording, then you have what
you see, like, the lyrics andthe notes.
So, like, the master side, thepublishing side, the recording
side, the composition side.
And so, like, the mechanicalroyalties are meant when the
record side.
Is being distributed there'salways going to be an underlying
side that you can't see everysong is either going to have
notes Or beats or lyrics, right?

(33:33):
And so whoever's in control ofthat side from the record side
is going to get their littlelike tidbit like it was cd sales

Nik (33:40):
per, yeah, it's like 7.
65 cents or something per CD,right?

Arta (33:45):
And then now I, I honestly, I don't remember what
it was.
I remember 9.
1.
9.
1 is definitely a relevantnumber for a certain time.
But nowadays that's the thing.
The CDs, it's like these daysnow it's just a minuscule
number, um, a decimal, for likestreaming.
So they still pay it It's justbeen

Nik (34:03):
applies to streaming.
They still get, it's, it is thepublishing owners, the people
that own the composition side,Getting a percentage of the
streaming sales or the, sorry,the, the, the streaming
royalties on the master side.

Arta (34:19):
Yeah, it's like it's basically like it's like because
you're reproducing the owner ofthat compositions like work in a
recorded form, like you'repaying them to be able to do
that.

Nik (34:31):
Yeah.
So if this is going above yourhead and you're literally like,
what the fuck are these guystalking about?
Well, one, I think that thatshows where.
Your and no offense, but thisshows where your level of music
business education is.
And the truth is, is like, thisis some complicated shit.
I used to teach, I taught themusic business class at icon

(34:51):
collective.
This was always the class thateveryone was just like, what?
Like it's, it's, it's hard stuffto understand.
But it's good to understand.
It's good to understand likethis is your business.
You are a business owner.
It's important to understand allof the ins and outs of how your
business and how your industryworks.
Right.
So, uh, I would highly recommendto go maybe on YouTube and, you

(35:14):
know, like research, like whatare mechanical royalties?
What is the difference between amaster and a composition, How
does publishing work?
Like do a little bit ofeducation, do a little bit of a,
deep dive into this just so youcan wrap your head around, you
know, what do all these numbersmean?
when you're getting your royaltystatements from a record label

(35:35):
or when you're getting yourroyalty statements from Spotify,
right?
Just so that you have a basicunderstanding of it.
Do you have any suggestions forresources of like good music
business resources that breakdown some of these really
complicated subjects in like adigestible way?

Arta (35:51):
It's so funny because my, my music law class in school and
my did my internship, they likehappened at the same time and
both of them.
told me to get the same book.
And so I was like, this isperfect.
Two birds, one stone.
So the classic Donald Passman,uh, all you need to know about
the music business.
That was like the first thingthat was recommended to me from
both of those

Nik (36:09):
Is that, still relevant though?
I remember that was

Arta (36:11):
well, they're still, they're still updating

Nik (36:13):
page, like thick ass book.
I remember like, I remember likereading some of it.
I'm just like, it's, it's kindof dense.
There's gotta be a, uh, youknow, I'm talking about like a
YouTube infographic, like musicbusiness for dummies that breaks
shit down, you know, is there,is there anything out there like
that, that, you know?

Arta (36:31):
I don't know if we will ever reach a point in human
civilization, especially when itcomes to like the music
publishing and like, as if it'salready not enough.
I mean, it's like you have therecord and then the publishing
side and then you have like thewriter share and the publisher
share these little likebreakdowns.
I'm like, will we ever have apoint in history where it's
going to be clear?

Nik (36:51):
Were it simple?
Yeah,

Arta (36:52):
yeah.

Nik (36:53):
yeah.
Fair

Arta (36:54):
Um, but I mean, like, I mean, that book, they keep
updating it.
So I will say for what it'sworth though, like, yeah, I, I
don't know if I would, um, justembark on just busting through
every last page of that.
I think that there's moreshorter, uh, digestible kind of
tidbits.
There's definitely like on, um,YouTube, YouTube is a great
resource.
I feel like for a lot ofdifferent people in the music
industry, from whether you'retrying to figure out how to do
something in Ableton to whetheryou're trying to figure out what

(37:15):
a legal term is.
Um, and that's, that's again,also, you know,

Nik (37:19):
YouTube University.
baby.
That's where it's at.
For sure.

Arta (37:22):
So, I mean, like, and I'm, I'm hoping to be one of those
resources.
Like, that's why I'm putting outmore tidbits and, and sharing
stuff with people where I'mlike, I want to give overviews
and explanations and, and kindof familiarize people with this
stuff.
But then that's the other thing,too.
I love talking to people.
So, if someone's like, Hey, Iwatched your video, but like,
this, I still don't know whatthe hell this means.
That's why I'm like, just talkto me.
Like, I love talking to people.
And even when people like, Ifeel like people feel like kind

(37:45):
of pressure.
They're like, well, if you'retalking to someone, like, does
that mean they're offended if Idon't hire them?
I'm like, no, I'm like, We're inthis community together.
Like I don't just sit in hereall day and like shut all the
doors and just read contracts.
Like I go to shows, I hang outwith people.
I actually, I have a rentalbusiness that I do on the side.
Like I have short term rentalsthat I offer and like my
businesses tie into each other.

(38:05):
And that when like people are intown for a tour, I'm not just
like, I only talk to you onemail and phone.
I'm like, come here.
You have a place to stay.
We can go to the show together.
We can get dinner together.
I want to get to know you.
I want to talk to you.
I want to know why the hell areyou even making music?
You know what I mean?
Or like, what's next for you?
And so, um, I want to remindpeople that like, to like, reach

(38:25):
out and talk to people to it.
Because if you're research onyour own through like books or
YouTube or whatever, you're,you're like, still not getting
it.
Talk to people.
I think it's a beautifulindustry to connect and the
relationships I think mean so,so, so much.

Nik (38:40):
Yeah.
100 percent man.
I think that's a good segue intowhen should somebody hire a
lawyer?
Like, when do you think thatthat's like important to do in
what situations, what types ofcontracts do you feel like it
would be advisable to reallyreach out to a professional and

(39:00):
have them handle it?
Yeah,

Arta (39:06):
is as soon as possible, as soon as you can, because you
might enter into a record dealthat you don't understand and
you're like just your careerjust starting to blossom and you
don't realize how constrainedgoing to be.
Not every deal is like that.
I mean, you know, sometimesthat's one of the, I guess,
frustrating parts of my jobwhere it sounds like all doom
and gloom and scary, like labelstrying to steal everything.

(39:28):
It's not always that way.
Sometimes like labels are alsorealizing the landscape and
some, some will pre adjust.
Well, they'll send you stuffthat right off the bat is
already more balanced outbecause they want to be known
for, like, fostering thatcommunity mindset.
But for the situations thatthat's not happening, I always
advise.
Yeah.
Sooner rather than later.
And sometimes again, even ifyou're very early on in your

(39:48):
career, you can just talk toattorneys and just, just ask
them for their opinion.
Like, they, they might look overa deal and like, Hey, I'm going
to charge you this much toactually go in depth, but I can
tell you, like, you know, juston an initial glance, like, you
know, this isn't the worst thingI've ever seen or whatever.
Um, it's just attorneys alwayshave to be careful too.
Like, I even have to say thisnow.
I feel like I always have to, Ihave this pressure.

(40:08):
I feel like always kind of,that's, it's saying like, you
know, You have to tell peoplelike, hey, what I'm saying is
not legal advice because we areso heavily kind of like
regulated and monitored.
I guess I'm monitored, but justregulated.
Right?
And so, like, on the end of allmy videos, I'm putting like,
this is not legal advice

Nik (40:24):
so we'll just jump in right now and say, everybody that's
listening, this is not officiallegal advice.
This is just a podcast of twodudes talking about the music
business, okay?
Legal disclaimer, we're throwingthat in

Arta-1 (40:36):
Always putting that, always putting that in my
videos.
This is not legal advice, we'reheavily regulated, so I just
don't want to mess anything up.
Somebody sees the video, they gosign a deal, and then they come
and they're like, hey man, Irelied on this that you posted
on the video, and now my wholemusic industry career has

Nik (40:50):
You, you ruined my life.

Arta-1 (40:54):
It's all over why

Nik (40:55):
Um, so, okay, look, let's, let's talk about, I wanna share
a little story.
This was my very first day whenI actually, uh, I worked for the
manager of the black eyed piecefor a little while.
A little fun music, businesshistory for me and, and my
journey and my career.
Um.
I started my career at CapitolRecords and I got very close

(41:17):
with David Guetta's camp duringthat time we had David Guetta,
that was awesome, David Guettaproduced and worked with the
Black Eyed Peas, he produced IGot a Feeling, he produced a
bunch of stuff with, you know,with them and Will.
i.
am and so I got introduced tothe Black Eyed Peas camp and I
got hired by the manager overthere and that was awesome, that
was like, the cool thing is thatalso he was partnering with the,

(41:38):
with Pasquale from Insomniac.
And they had this idea oflaunching the discovery project.
So I got to be a part ofliterally what's still running
now, um, which kind of also wenton to become Insomniac records.
So really, really coolopportunity back then.
Now I remember my very first dayon the job.
My very first day in the office,I got thrown into a situation

(41:59):
where one of the guys on ourroster, he was a producer and he
had, you know, they would justpop in the studio and they would
make music with other producers.
There was another producer thathe collaborated with, and I
think like Fergie was on it, wason the track or something.
And, you know, a handful ofproducers and singers,
songwriters, everybody wasinvolved in making the song.
Nobody.

(42:19):
Signed anything or agreed toanything about the song.
All of a sudden the song getsplaced in a makeup commercial
and there was like a hundredthousand dollars there was a
sync deal now we're in asituation where.
The producers, managers are allfighting over who's getting
what.
And that was, that was a veryfun first day on the job.

(42:41):
what do you recommend for, youknow, when you're going into the
studio, a lot of people don'twant to.
They don't want to mess up thecreative energy, the vibe.
It's like, I just want to comeand create.
So like, let's, let's not talkabout splits and stuff like
that.
Yet sometimes when you don'ttalk about splits, all of a

(43:02):
sudden there's a bunch of moneyon the table and managers and
lawyers are all fighting overit.
Right.
So how do you recommend artistsgo about, um, finding that
balance of, you know, being.
You know, being in the studioand being creative, but also
like, having these necessarymusic business discussions,
especially over splits.

Arta-1 (43:22):
Well, I think that again kind of like with the hiring an
attorney sooner rather thanlater I think that the sooner in
the process that you can jumpinto that the better and and
again, too.
I one thing I will show they'reout there I I tell people a lot
of the time i'm like this is acreative fun industry so if you
need a bad guy to blame, like,I'm like, just blame me, man.
Just say our lawyer is the onethat's saying like, oh, we got

(43:43):
to go change this term.
And we got to do this.
Um, because I'm like, I'm like,you're supposed to be out there,
like creating, right?
And like bouncing, like, you'renot supposed to be sitting there
squabbling over 15 versus 25%.
Um, but yeah, generallyspeaking, I think it can help
everybody to get the contractsin place sooner rather than
later.
If, if going into the studiowith the like preset splits is
too stressful, then at leastTalk about it as soon as you can

(44:05):
after because like I have toplay a lot of cleanup My job is
a lot of cleanup where somebodylike Situations like what you
just said are are actually toocommon unfortunately where like
people might like they theyrelease a track they have a Good
vibe with the label or the otherartist that has a good vibe with
the label and then The songcomes out.

(44:26):
It does really well.
And this, this guy that mighthave taken a thousand dollar
advance or a 5, 000 advance.
If you talked about this sixmonths ago, now they see that
there was a makeup brand or amovie studio or whatever that
wants it.
Or now you see the streams arejust blowing up.
I mean, going from six figures,seven figures, eight figures.
Now, what would have been like a5, 000 advance budget is now

(44:46):
going to be a 50, 000 advance or100, 000 advance.
So as a label or as a likehiring artist because you could
be an independent artist thathires a vocalist that this
happens to right?
Um, I think it's for for thatsituation.
It's beneficial to have it inplace sooner but honestly, it
can be beneficial for the otherside as well for like the the
The person who gets brought onor hired, to do that or like the

(45:10):
vocalist or producer thatcontributes to the label or the
main artist project.
Cause if you don't have thecontract in place, there might
be squabbles over splits later.
They might not pay you.
They might be like, well, younever signed a contract.
So how are we supposed to knowwhat your accounting statements
are supposed to look like?
Um, so it can, I think that thatthat's a use.
It can be useful for all theparties to figure it out sooner
rather than later and not haveto fight over cleanup after the

(45:32):
track is already out or alreadylicensed.

Nik (45:34):
Yeah.
I just, I just Googled this realquick.
Cause I just remembered, there'san app that create music group
made called splits.
It's basically, An app that in avery simple way, you can just
have everybody log into and justput in, put in the percentage of

(45:55):
splits right there.
And it's like, everybody signsit electronically and it's like,
it's all done in like twoseconds rather than having to,
you know, draft up a bigcontract or anything.
So check out the splits app.
By create music group, I'm goingto hit up their owner.
Actually.
I'm calling, I'm manifestingthis right now, speaking it out
loud.
I used to know, uh, Alex, it'sbeen a long time, but they're
incredible.
They, they do huge, like YouTubemonetization and have a few big

(46:18):
studios.
Um, anyways, check out thesplits app that, that can help.
And like, yeah, it's, it's justimportant.
You got to have thatconversation at some point.
So yeah, have it.
Do it before there's a bunch ofmoney on the table.
Uh, that will usually help.
And save managers and lawyers alot of stress.
Because I remember that being avery stressful first day on the
job.
That was not fun.

Arta-1 (46:39):
I bet.
Well, yeah, I mean like that ithappens and then it just sucks
because If you talked about itbeforehand, like, right, there
might be a little bit of, youknow, like buyer's remorse,
like, ah, maybe we should haveasked for more or whatever, but
it pales in comparison to likethe nasty, uh, conversations
that you kind of see come intoplay, like after the fact,

Nik (46:59):
And something I used to advise a lot as well was that,
you know, a lot of times we'redoing these handshake deals or
you might have a conversationand like, let's say you
negotiate something inconversation.
It's, it's, uh, I'm going to,you know, pay you X amount of
money to do this, or we're goingto split the something, you
know, split the royalties 50,50, and it might be a verbal
conversation that you have.

(47:20):
I would usually advise to then.
Follow up with an email and putit in email and say, Hey, like,
you know, based off what wetalked today, like, this is what
we said and email it to them andthen like have them email it
back just so that there wasbasically a paper trail.
Is that legally binding at all?
Or does it actually like ifthere's like an email that I,
you know, you had sent and like,Hey, look, you emailed me back.

(47:42):
We've got it right here.
If you were to go to court perse, like does that, is that
email legit and legally bindingor does it have to like really
be on a contract written out andsigned with a pen?

Arta-1 (47:57):
Let me throw two things out back at you.
One, it depends, but two,generally speaking, something is
better than nothing.
And it's so funny because yourprocess.
That is exactly what I do or askpeople to do, even if we're not
talking about like bindingnegotiation, like contract terms
for something as simple as like,you know, somebody might give me

(48:18):
a call and have like a consult,or I'm talking to a long
standing client.
They have a new project orwhatever.
That advice I think isphenomenal.
To just get it in writingbecause there's certain
situations that certain thingscan become binding or at least
serve as, as evidence to, to beused.
but like the, the shortestversion of it is get it in
writing and, and exactly likeyou just laid out.

(48:40):
I love to do that as well.
And, uh, I, I usually tellpeople too, because sometimes it
can be a little awkward, youknow what I mean?
Like asking for that.
So I don't even like it to reachthe awkward phase.
Like if I'm getting to the endof a consult, I'll just tell
someone like, Hey, by the way,it was great to talk to you.
I'm going to shoot over my ratesand, uh, you know, like what
kind of the estimates that Ihave in mind.
so I'm going to send that to anemail.
So just so you have it.
And then you get back to me, youknow, review at your leisure.

(49:01):
And if you have questions orwhatever, let me know.
So get rid of the awkwardness.
And then.
You're actually like puttingyour money where your mouth is.
You're you're actually backingup your word.
You're not just saying somethingand then you do a project for
them.
And then later you're like theysaid you send the bill and
they're like, what the fuck isthis?

Nik (49:15):
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's funny.
I'm just realizing how much ofthis is it's music business
knowledge, like just knowing thenuts and bolts of the math,
right?
And how things work and whatindustry standards are.
There's that side of it.
And then there really is thiswhole other side of it, which is
just about personalcommunication.

(49:36):
Right.
Being able to have theseconversations, being able to
negotiate, being able to havepeople like you so that they
want to work with you and theywant to, they, they want to find
a fair deal.
There's like just the, thepersonal side of it is so
important as well.
Uh, and I think that that'swhere, having a good lawyer on

(49:56):
your team can really, can reallymake sense.
You know, I think one, you mightnot want to have those
conversations yourself, or Imight not want to be the one.
Negotiating all of all of thesethings, I want to be the artist.
I just want to fucking create, Ijust want to make music.
I don't want to have to worryabout that.
Like talk to my, like, here's mylawyer.
And also, you know, the lawyeris probably going to be way more

(50:17):
trained and versed in havingthose conversations, you know,
being able to negotiate, havinggood relationships with people.
It, it.
It is making more and more senseto me, like why an artist would
want to, you know, really justbe like, Hey, like you handle
this.
This is your wheelhouse.
This is your zone of genius.
Let me focus on mine.
If somebody was interested inworking with you, I'm sure a lot

(50:38):
of people are listening to thisright now and being like, Damn,
yeah, I actually do need alawyer.
I should have somebody lookingover my stuff.
Um, how can people contact youand reach out?

Arta-1 (50:46):
So I have my website.
It's just my first and last nameand I have a very frustrating
name sometimes on this spell itout.
It's a RTA.
M A J D Dot com.
It's my first name last name.
Um, I also like my instagram andyoutube like all it's all pretty
consistently branded It's justmy first name last name.
I'm pretty easy to find and youknow, I just tell people i'm
like Connect with me if you havea question, or if you want to

(51:09):
just follow me, just to see whatI'm talking about.
Maybe in 6 months or a year, youor a friend might have
something.
But I don't want people to bescared or worried about reaching
out.
I'd be like, oh, God, this guy'sgoing to try to sell me
something like immediately.
I don't operate that way.
I've seen lawyers, especially inlike, more.
I want to say.
Kind of like high stakes areas.
Let's say like criminal lawwhere like I've heard of like,

(51:30):
you know what people will likecall a lawyer and they're like
Oh my god if you don't hire ifyou don't send me this retainer
right now and if you don't getme on your case like You're
gonna have your you're gonna goto jail and your record's gonna
be ruined and your whole life isover And i'm like, dude, like
what kind of a sick way?
Is that like I sleep really wellat night because I like to be
straightforward with people andI just tell them i'm like These
are my thoughts This is myestimate.

(51:50):
As far as costs, you know,there's no one size fits all
scenario.
So I just tell people, I'm like,talk to me.
I'm not going to pressure youinto it.
I'll give you my assessment andtry to help you out.
And if I can't help you outagain, I might end up, we might
end up becoming friends or, orcolleagues, or we might just end
up connecting down the road whenyou or somebody else might need
the help.

Nik (52:06):
Yeah, you might be staying at the at the the rental
property at some point grillingup steaks and drinking a beer
together One of these nights whoknows?

Arta-1 (52:14):
Oh man, it gets so hot here.
I'm in Arizona, licensedCalifornia, Arizona, but then
when it's summertime, the girlgets hot, those steaks, you get
that sizzle on there.
Love

Nik (52:24):
So good, man.
Well, I'll be sure to put yourInstagram and your website in
the show notes.
If anybody's looking for a goodlawyer, you know where to go.
Hit up Arda.
He'll take care of you.
Thank you so much for coming onthe show.
I know we could have, we coulddo fucking four more of these
because there's so much deepstuff to go into.
There's so much, we haven'ttalked about management
contracts for someone that's,being faced with a management

(52:45):
contract.
There's so many other clausesand things to go in there.
So, one, everybody go, you know,learn as much as you can,
educate yourself, go to YouTubeuniversity.
Um, but also, yeah, tap intohitting up some professionals
and having, you know, peoplereally like walk you through
that process.
You never know what you'resigning, you know, unless you're
like really, really well versedin this stuff.
So, go hit up Arda.

(53:05):
He'll take care of you.
Thanks so

Arta-1 (53:07):
Appreciate you.
Thank you so much for having meon.
This is the time flew by.
I, yeah, I would, I would talkfor hours, but I appreciate the
opportunity and I appreciatebeing here.
And yeah, like I said, like, Iappreciate you and anyone else
out there that I can help and bea resource to, I would love to
do that.