DAN SUGARMAN (Ice Nine Kills) - Going ALL-IN On Yourself And Your Dreams - Headliner Mindset

Episode Transcript
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Dan Sugarman (00:00):
Like I remember I got my first guitar when I was
13 years old.
And I remember telling all of myuncles and aunts that like
pitched in to get it for me, Iwas like, one day I'll have my
own signature guitar.
And they thought I was fuckinginsane.
And now like about 20 yearslater, I have my signature
guitar, it's that type of likeslow burn manifestation that I'm
realizing is like one of thebiggest things in the music

(00:20):
world.
Maybe it's art in general, butlike, if you're not really
willing to eat shit for 10years, maybe look at having a
side gig,

Nik (00:41):
What's up, everybody.
Welcome to the Headliner Mindsetpodcast.
If you've been listening to theshow for a while, you know by
now that I am a huge metalhead.
And so this episode was sospecial and exciting for me
because I have the guitar playerfrom literally one of my top all
time favorite metal bands, IceNine Kills.

(01:01):
This guy has such an incrediblestory and truly demonstrates
what I call the headlinermindset.
You know, it's already hardenough to become a global
touring rock star, right?
The amount of time and energythat you have to put into making
that happen.
But he also beat cancer in theprocess of that.
And that's just, one example ofthe resilience and the mindset

(01:23):
that he has.
So I'm so excited to share thisinterview with you guys.
This is Dan Sugarman.
Dan, what's up brother.
Welcome to the show, man.
So stoked to have you.
Yeah,

Fuck yeah, dude.
This is, this is awesome, man.
I'm glad we're able to connectlike this.

Nik (01:37):
I'm so stoked, man.
And it's really cool how we gotconnected.
Uh, I'm such a big believer inmanifestation and I'm practicing
it all the time.
I think we're all practicing itall the time, whether we realize
it or not.
Right.
And I, I actually had yourmanager, the manager for ice
nine kills is on my hit list,for like.

(01:58):
People that I want to get on theshow because what y'all just
what you guys have done with thebrand in terms of like I Talk a
lot about branding and in theheavy metal world in the rock
world You guys have just fuckingcrack the code on how to develop
a really good brand and whatthat's done You know for the
band and for the business So Iwas already like man I got to
get the manager on and thenRandomly shout out to our boy

(02:19):
Sam my friend who's a fellowlife coach hits me up and he's
like hey like you're A metalheadright like have you ever heard
of this band ice nine pills?
And I literally just sent him Ascreenshot of my like Spotify,
wrapped and it's like top band.
I'm like, bro, this, these guysare like my favorite fucking
band.
So super cool.
To have manifested one of themembers of one of my favorite

(02:39):
bands onto the show.
I'm so fucking pumped

Dude, let's go, man.
Let's go.
Are you talking about Maori?
Mike Maori?

Nik (02:45):
yeah, mike maury.
Yes.

Yes.
Yes.
I'll put in a word, dude.

Nik (02:48):
Yes, I would

in a good

Nik (02:50):
that I want to I want to pick his brain.
It's been a really genius justyeah marketing and Business
strategy for what you guys havedone with the band.
So

Yeah.
And like full fuckingdisclosure, dude.
Like our vocalist, Spencer isjust the genius, evil mastermind
behind all of the stuff that yousee, and we've just managed to
put in the dopest people inplace.
Like, I don't, I'm sure who amI, of course, you know, about
the Andrew Carnegie mastermindteam, right?
It's the idea of like AndrewCarnegie didn't really know much

(03:19):
about steel.
He just found the people thatdidn't know about it and then
created everything that we knowof today.
Like every, every big buildingthat was built was because of
the steel that he was able toput together.
And.
Spencer is a fucking genius atputting the right people in the
right place and creating teamsand Maori and Spencer work hand

(03:40):
in hand on absolutelyeverything.
And it's really honestly justincredible to be a part of such
like a fast moving force.
You know what I mean?

Nik (03:48):
Yeah, and I think that's, it's so cool.
It's something that we've talkeda bit about on the podcast
where, especially for myaudience that are electronic
music producers, where it'slike, it's just you and a laptop
and everyone is doing everythingby themselves.
I can make all the music bymyself, but then I also, I'm
making all the content bymyself.
And it can be a very lonely,lone wolf kind of path.

(04:10):
Right.
But there's that saying that ifyou want to go, you know, Fast
go alone, if you want to go far,go together, and the more and
more I'm having conversationswith really, really successful
people in the game, it's like,yo, you, you gotta have a team,
you gotta surround yourself withother people that are good at
other things, and put that dreamteam together, so, not surprised
to hear that.

dude.
It's, it's a matter of likeknowing where your specialties
lie and then finding someoneelse that kind of like.
Fills those deficiencies you mayhave, you know, and I think, I
think it really, really ishelpful when you can get real
with yourself and look yourselfin the mirror and be like,
someone helping me schedulecontent would be fucking killer
or someone helping me filmthings would be killer, or I'm
going to outsource to editing orany of those things.

(04:51):
It just becomes so helpful tolike, get real with yourself on
that stuff.

Nik (04:54):
And I think the challenge for most people that was like a
lot of times that means hiringsomebody and a lot of people
just might not have the budgetor might not be willing to
invest.
I'm kind of in that place whereI'm at that point in my business
where I'm like, man, I know Ineed to be like hiring other
people, but there's that part ofme that either doesn't want to
delegate and let go of it orjust doesn't want to spend the
money straight up.
You know, it's like that littleresistance to, you know, you got

(05:17):
to spend money to make moneykind of thing.

Yeah, dude.
Yeah, you got it.
You got to circulate that shit.
It's hard.
It's hard when you want to holdon to it.
I feel like energetically thatcreates such like a blockage and
so many things, right?
Like the second you're willingto open up on one side, the
input comes in on the otherside.
Output and input are like hyperconnected.
I've always found there's alwayslike a reciprocal return when

(05:40):
you kind of like relinquish thatcontrol Or even if it's just
control on your funds, you knowwhat I mean?
Like.

Nik (05:46):
dude, it's, it's

It's a struggle.

Nik (05:48):
it's all, just to go a little deep real quick, you
know, it is all energy.
It's just all energetics,especially with money.
Money's, it's not real.
It's just fake digital ones andzeros floating through the
fucking universe, right?
And, and I just had, I've beenreally diving into the,
energetics of money recently.
And it a really profoundexperience where, um, I
basically helped somebody outcause they were struggling and

(06:10):
they couldn't pay rent and I waslike, you know what, like, I'm
gonna, I'm gonna send you athousand dollars right now and
it was just like, you know, Icould afford it.
I was like, cool, I can do thatand I even noticed a little bit
of the resistance of like, fuck,like, okay, you know, but I was
like, no, I'm gonna do the rightthing.
I'm going to help this personand the following week I've made
like eight grand back like thenext week and like new clients
and people signing up and I wasjust like, oh, There's something

(06:32):
there is like actually let itgo.
Be willing to invest inyourself, because otherwise
we're coming from scarcity.
We're living in that tightenergy of, uh, I'm holding on so
tightly, but when we, when weloosen it up, you'd be surprised
at how it comes back, right?

It's so true, dude.
I mean, like the current of ariver, the currency of a river
is bouncing off of the riverbanks, like it's currency and
banks constantly.
Right.
So like the second you damn thatshit up and stop it, the whole
natural flow, the ecosystem ofwhat's.
Naturally wanting to occur justkind of dies out.
I feel like the second you kindof like ride that shit, let go,

(07:07):
like you just said, it came backeight times.
That's insane.
Two times would be dope.

Nik (07:12):
yeah, yeah,

it's always like that, man.
Like I'm, I'm investing soheavily in my own stuff right
now that it's, you know, you're,you're looking at things going
out and you're like, that's alot of fucking zeros, dude.
Like,

Nik (07:23):
yeah, yeah.

and it's, it's kind of like, I've been saying
this since I was like 14.
Uh, but it's like, if I'm afraidto invest in myself.
Who the fuck else is going toinvest in me?

Nik (07:33):
Hmm.
Wow.

know what I mean?

Nik (07:35):
Yeah, man.
Well, look, I, I see why Samconnected us.
We're already in the deep end.
I

Yeah, right, right, right.
Big time, dude.

Nik (07:43):
and I would really love to hear a bit about your story.
And like, even just that mindsetat 14 years old, you were
already telling yourself if, youknow, I'm not willing to invest
in myself, who would be like,you know, like, where did that
mindset come from at such ayoung age?

That is a good question, dude.
Um, I'm a super fuckingcommitted person.
Like whenever I get intosomething, I throw myself at it
fully.
You know, at first it was likesurfing and skateboarding.
And then it was, uh, hockey.
Like I was deep into hockey.
And then I found music and Igave up the irony is when I was

(08:23):
super into skateboarding, I wasplaying Tony Hawk pro skater and
skateboarding.
And I was like, if I don'tactually go outside, I'm just
going to get ripped thumbs andnot be able to do fucking
anything.
So I had to make that choice oflike the real world.
And then I realized like, I'mnot going to be really willing
to risk my, my limbs act likeliteral limbs.
I didn't really want to like,injure myself constantly because

(08:45):
I saw my friends trying to getlike sponsorships and they were
just like busting their headsopen or breaking arms and shit.
And I, you know, maybe, maybe Iwas an adult in a child's body
by being able to like lookforward and realize that that
wasn't the best investment of mybody in time.

Nik (09:01):
yeah,

And you have to be in like the 1 percent of the 1
percent to make a huge livingdoing that shit.
So then I went to hockey cause Ihad like an affinity for that
kind of shit.
My brother was a sports personand super committed.
He's Still holds records in ourhometown for like home runs and
fastest pitch and all that shit,like 20 years later.
I found music and I was all indude.
Like I remember I got my firstguitar for my bar mitzvah when I

(09:24):
was 13 years old.
And it was, it was a Gibson SG.
And I thought at the time Ithought it was Angus Young's
signature guitar.
Cause I just didn't know enoughabout it.
And I remember telling all of myuncles and aunts that like
pitched in to get it for me, Iwas like, one day I'll have my
own signature guitar.
And they thought I was fuckinginsane.
And now like about 20 yearslater, I have my signature

(09:46):
guitar, you know, and it's like,it's, it's that type of like
slow burn manifestation that I'mrealizing is like one of the
biggest things I realized in themusic world.
Maybe it's art in general, butlike, if you're not really
willing to eat shit for 10years,

Nik (10:00):
hmm,

maybe look at having a side gig, or maybe look
at having this be a hobby untilit has like Leap fully into a
thing.
But I, I was blessed enough tohave a really supportive mom and
dad.
my my dad probably is where likethat line came from.
If you're not willing to investin yourself, who else will?
He was a super hardworkingentrepreneur.

(10:23):
And when I was like 13, got thefirst guitar, when I was like
14, I started realizing how mucheffort it was going to take to
really make something happen.
And I was practicing, like, Iwould say I was playing eight
hours a day.
True practice, true focus.
Practice was probably like.
Two, three hours a day, which isstill insane.
School took a backseat.
You know, I, I I was, I wastelling my grandma who sadly

(10:45):
passed away two years ago, butwe had conversations before she
passed about how she rememberedshe and I getting in arguments
about me not wanting to go tocollege.
I was like, why would I have aplan B?
Like, I already know what planA1 through A1000 is and all of
them is going to have a guitarin my fucking hands.

Nik (11:00):
Hmm.

And I, just committed because like, You
know, Ron Swanson's got that.
If you're not going to whole asssomething, don't half ass it.

Nik (11:08):
You know, it's so cool because, just, for everyone
listening right now, we aretalking to a real life rockstar
here.
These motherfuckers were outthere literally touring with
Metallica this last year,alright?
It's pretty much as big as itfucking gets.
I remember being ten years old,being like, getting introduced
to Jimi Hendrix and being like,I wanna be a rockstar, I wanna
be like that, like that was mydream, right?

(11:29):
And I think there's likeThousands and probably millions
of kids out there that are like,have that same dream,

Hmm.

Nik (11:36):
but you actually went and did it.
And I'm just so curious aboutthat level of all in commitment
that you had, right?
As opposed to, I think there'sso many other people where it's
like, they just don't have that,you know?
Like, where do you think thatcomes from?

It's a really good question, dude.
I think there's some like innatething in me that probably made
me just be like, you know, somekind of fucking tism that made
me just be some kind of thingjust made me be like, I am doing
this forever.
No matter what, no matter theoutcome.
And there was times in mycareer, dude, were like.

(12:16):
Uh, we don't, we don't need toget too heavy on this shit, but
my mom got diagnosed with braincancer on the day that I joined
my first band.
Like the day I auditioned andgot in the band, I got a call
that she had a brain tumor andthis was like, I was probably
16, no, it was 15 at the time Iwas 15.
I was a sophomore in highschool.

(12:37):
You know, I was, it was brutal,dude, it was devastating.
I remember getting like thisgreat news and then immediately
like dropping to my knees andcrying and like within an hour
of each other.
Right.
Um, and I've spoken about thiswith Sam a lot, and this is
something that I'm working on.
Like the other foot doesn't needto drop, right.
You could always have goodthings happening without
something negative inverselyoccurring.
And that's kind of been like apattern throughout my entire

(12:59):
life.
Whenever there's some massive,like leap forward, there's
always like cock punch rightafter.
And I think that kind of liketaught me perseverance and
commitment and like sacrificereally, really early on.
By the time I was 16, I hadjoined a band, was I a fucking
freshman?
I might've been a freshman at15.

(13:20):
I think I was a freshman.
And the band was, uh, seniors atthe time.
And the next year in highschool, they were like, dude,
you're way more committed thanwe are to this.
We're all going to college, takethe band, take the band name,
find new band members, do whatyou want.
So I, that entire summer wrotean entire record, a full length
record between ages like 15 and16, found all new band members

(13:44):
that were like adults.
Right.
Like one of the dudes had a van,which was super essential to us
being able to go play out andstart that like weekend warrior
road dog shit that we really,really needed.

Nik (13:56):
and they had that, same level of commitment that you
did.

They had a van.

Nik (14:01):
Okay.
Okay.
Okay.
Yeah.

I, yeah, like.
It's a mastermind team, right?
I needed wheels.
No,

Nik (14:10):
Uh huh.

there's, there's a part of me that's kidding.
The part of me that isn't likeat this time, I found the
vocalist first, who was themerch guy of my soon to be
banned as blood runs black.
And he left, he quit being amerch guy to be the vocalist of
this band.
And he and I kind of like putthe band together and figured
stuff out together and went allin on investing in like, I think
it was like nine grand, eightgrand at the time to have

(14:32):
actual.
Full length record recorded withat the time, one of the best
producers in the game, his nameis Zach Oren up at castle
ultimate studios in Oakland, um,had done a bunch of legendary
records, including the band thatI was soon to join.
Uh, but at this point, dude, itwas like a matter of me just
finding people that would helpme live the dream.

(14:54):
It was like, I, I needed anotherguitar player.
This guy could play the stuff wewere doing.
He had a family, he had a kid.
We had a drummer at the time whowas unbelievable.
Had a kid, had a full time jobworking at LAX.
Like, you know, we would have tocancel shows the day of, cause
he couldn't get out of work typeshit.
Yeah,

Nik (15:13):
there was this huge movement, I want to say, at
least from what I saw, it waslike, I don't know, around 2010,
everybody started becoming DJs,you know, it was kind of like,
It's so hard to depend on fourother people, right?
But I can sit down by myself andcreate everything on the laptop.
And a lot of people started, youknow, kind of moving in that

(15:34):
direction.
And so it's, uh, yeah, it'sjust, it's, it's an interesting,
I don't know, dynamic to seewhere, like we were saying a
minute ago, you also still needto have the team and you still
need to have the people aroundyou.
But, um, But yeah, I can justsee how much harder it is to
find the right combination ofpeople to actually be in a band
and make that work,

Yeah, dude.
It's, it's so hard.
I mean, even at the time, like,even though I wasn't doing the
DJ thing, I was using, have youheard of guitar pro?

Nik (16:00):
Oh yeah, for sure.

So I used guitar pro to write a full length
record, right?
I wrote all the bass lines, allthe guitars, all the drums.
Luckily, our drummer spent likea few days before recording and
he like learned all of the songsand it's just a fucking machine
and nailed it.
But I had to record all theguitars, all the bass, I wrote
all the lyrics and all thepatterns and stuff like that and
produce the record.
And it was very much like that.

(16:23):
It was just being self reliantand learning to like take on a
load that would be overwhelmingand learning how to kind of like
take one bite at a time.
until my plate was clean, right?
Like that was, that was, reallywhat it was about.
And this kind of circles back towhat I was saying before about
just being super committed andbeing down to each shit no

(16:43):
matter what.
Right.
Cause, cause I was also obsessedwith like technical death metal,
dude.
Like who the fuck makes moneydoing that?

Nik (16:49):
Yeah, dude, you gotta love it, bro.
you gotta

gotta, you gotta really love it.
You gotta be down to play for abunch of like hairy old dudes
who are just judging your guitarplaying.
Right.
yeah.
And it's like, it's a world ofshit, but eventually, the
drummer of As Blood Runs Blackwanted to manage us.
And I was like, holy shit, thisis, this is fucking awesome.

(17:12):
This is the next step for us.
And I didn't really realize atthe time that he was kind of
like poaching me from my ownband.

Nik (17:19):
hmm,

So soon after that, soon after we had our
record completed, we were Slegelfrom Metal Blade Records?
He's the dude who found likeSlayer and shit.

Nik (17:29):
Bro, I almost, I almost worked for them right out of
college.
I was like, I literally had aninterview with them, and I, I, I
don't know.
I didn't get hired, but I was sointo them, for sure.
And still am, I mean they putout So many

So many dude.
They are one of the most iconicrecord labels in metal.
But I got a message from BrianSlagle on my space about wanting
to sign my band fallen figure.
Unbelievable opportunity lost myshit.
And then within that same liketimeframe, our drummer, or
sorry, our manager, the drummerof his blood runs black was
like, look, dude, like we need aguitar player.

(18:02):
We're having a comeback.
We want to write a record.
We think you're the dude.
And I got so fucking stressedabout making this decision of
leaving my own band, my ownbaby, this opportunity to have
my own thing or joining at thetime as Blood Runs Black was the
biggest band in metal.
Like there was, there was nobigger band.
Um, it was so stressful for methat I got shingles

Nik (18:23):
wow, yeah,

up dude.
It was, it was a big, it was abig decision.
Mm

Nik (18:28):
there's something in here about being the dude, being the
guy though, like you had acertain mindset, a certain
energy, a certain skill set aswell for them to be like, Hey,
we actually, we want you.
And I think there's a big lessonin there about like becoming
that person, right?

(18:48):
Becoming that person that peoplewant on their team, you know,
it's not just like making thehit, making the record that
people want, but it's likebecoming the person that people
want to work with, becoming theperson that people want to
support, you know what I mean?
Like there's something reallybig in that.
And I think that really says alot about just you and just that
relentless drive and work ethicthat you had.
It was like, Yeah.

(19:09):
We want this fucking guy in theband.

Yeah, it's an it's an interesting thing, dude.
Like I've realized more and moreover the years that it's like
about being the right person inthe right place at the right
time

Nik (19:18):
Yeah.

to be the right person takes a shitload of
preparedness and like working onyourself and I realize that it's
like being a good hang is almostmore important than being a
great musician, right?
I worked my ass off to be adecent musician, but I was a
good hang having a spine.
Having integrity and knowingwhen to say no or speak up for

(19:39):
yourself, like commands acertain amount of respect and
then being willing to step intoa backbone role for the band and
do like heavy lifting is also areally big part of it.
Right?
So I stepped into this new bandand immediately was tasked with
writing all of the leads, allthe solo stuff on this record,
because the record was alreadywritten.
Their guitar player that I wasreplacing had just stepped out

(20:00):
and the vocalist quit as well.
So I had to write all of thelyrics for this like huge
fucking record.
I was 17 years old, somethinglike that.
And then immediately juststarted touring the world, like
full time, like all thesefucking places.
We went to like Russia, Japan,China.
We were the first band to playin, Borneo, Malaysia.

(20:20):
There was like a chapter in abook about us going there, like
crazy, crazy shit.
And I just started like, Gettingan appetizer of the world's
parking lots.
Like, touring is not what peoplethink it is.
It's really just like, it'seating fast food and like,
getting from one place to theother and like, taking bird bath
showers.
It's a fucking grind.

(20:41):
Um, and you know, it'sinteresting, dude.
Like, I actually just wastalking about this recently with
a friend.
Um, when I was 14, this isaround the same time I just told
you about it.
No, actually I was, I was 15cause this is the first couple
of shows with fallen figure.
I was 15.
So I was a couple of years intoplaying guitar, super committed
and all this stuff.

(21:01):
But it was my first real showwith the band we were playing at
the alley in Fullerton.
I'm just, sorry, I'm having alittle flashback of the show.
Um, and it was like the firsttime that we had to sell
tickets.
We sold a good amount oftickets.
We had to like drive an hour anda half out there.
So it felt like actually beingin a fucking band.
tons of people were there and Istarted freaking out.

(21:22):
And I called my dad saying Ididn't want to play.
I told him I wanted to quit andI didn't want to do this anymore
because I was too afraid.
And he told me, he was like, ifyou don't do this, like, you
don't know if this is going tobe something you want to do.
And like, that's ironically oneof the few awesome things my dad
has done in my life, but it was,it stuck with me really, really
heavy, dude.
And I'm like, thankful forlearning in that moment that it

(21:45):
takes pushing yourself past yourcomfort zone to like reap the
benefits or be able to pickthose fruits.
Yeah.
Harvest the fucking goods.
Like it was, it was a lot offear and overcoming for me to
get to a point of just likefully committing.
And I think after that point, Iwas like, okay, this is, this is
for sure what I want to do.
This is for sure what I want todo.

Nik (22:06):
And so, at 17, you joined as Blood Runs Black, started
touring, and you were full timeartist then, at

Full time artist and, you know, going on five
month tours and coming home with200 bucks and being like, I made
it.
This is.

Nik (22:22):
I'm curious about that, you know, especially in a band, you
know, a lot of times you're youknow, you're fucking yeah You're
not making that much money in ametal band anyways, and you're
splitting it between five peopleand a manager or something Did
you have?
You know regular jobs along theway as well that you were doing
supporting yourself Like whathow did you support the hustle,
you know on the come up?

So kind of around the time where I was having that
argument with my grandma aboutlike, I don't have a plan B,
like, I don't, I don't fuck withthat idea.
I do plan a one, a two, a three.
I had one job.
I worked at a place called deliboys.
I was a expediter, which waslike a bus boy.
I would do some chopping.
I would like serve plates.
I would get cups of water forpeople.

(23:01):
Like basically I was the bitchfor anybody who needed my help
at this spot, at deli boys.
I did that for one summer to beable to pay for that van.
We had to pay payments everymonth on it as well as our
practice space.
And I immediately realized,like, I hate this.
Like, I'm not cut out for thisshit.
I'm not cut out for having aboss.
I'm not cut out for like jumpingto like help people who don't

(23:26):
have like the second, the secondyou're doing that kind of shit,
you get seen a little bitdifferently.
Like people don't really have.
Respect and it's really fuckedup.
Like for me to come and cleanyour plate and like, not be
thanked as just like, Hey dude,like fuck you, bro.
Like I, I don't, I don't want towipe your ass.
This is not fun.
So I started to realize thatthat wasn't the game.

(23:46):
and I started committing heavilyto guitar lessons

Nik (23:50):
Teaching.
Yeah, which is something I sawyou still do.
You're still teaching lessonsand stuff.
I'm going to have to hit you upafter this because I, I, I, I
might dabble a little bit.
I'm sure I could learn.
I would love to learn how toshred, but what do you offer
with that?
Are you doing one on one?
Do you have like programs andcourses and stuff?
And I'm very

Yeah, dude.
Yeah.
So it's over the years, it'sbecome a really awesome, uh,
Outlet for me.
It's become a really awesome wayto help people and kind of like
For lack of better word mold thenext generation and like help
them be prepared to be the rightperson in the right place at The
right time I've got a lot ofstudents who are got some killer
opportunities right now And it'sreally fucking cool to see that

(24:28):
but yeah, dude, it's it's killerto

Nik (24:30):
And how fulfilling is that too?
Right?
Like I I got into coachingbecause I was, I taught at a
music production school, so Itaught music business and taught
a creativity course.
And like, just like steppinginto the teacher role, I, I
don't know, to me is just like,it's why I coach now.
It's the most fucking fulfillingthing ever.
So I was really stoked to seethat you're doing that you're
teaching as well.
'cause I know.
You get that same feeling too,

Absolutely, man.
I would say that's my life and Iget to step on stage and do cool
shit.

Nik (24:56):
Mm

Like I feel like there's somepast life fucking thing where
I've just been a teacher all thetime.
It just feels it feels reallycomfortable and innate for me.
But yeah, dude, I do likeprivate one on ones.
I do band coaching.
I do mentorships forsongwriting.
I do group sessions and I'm justnow starting a new aspect of,

(25:21):
I've been working on this formany years.
I'm calling it slipstream.
The idea is to have massiveticketed group classes based on
very specific things.
And every teacher that I bringon is going to have their own
lesson lounge.
So the first thing I'm going todo is how to write a song like
ice nine kills.
It's going to be a weekendcourse where I take you through
from like a to Z one zero to 100on how we write a song.

(25:43):
And then.
Basically it's going to be like,if you have questions, you come
on screen and then you have thisawesome, like group think thing
where people are going to askquestions that you would never
ask and you hear things youdidn't know you needed to hear
answers to.
And then that becomes an awesomeevergreen piece of content that
I could have other people buyinto and get that same content.
And then once I have how towrite a song, I snag kills.

(26:03):
I'm going to hit up my otherdudes and bands.
How to write a song likeSlaughter to Prevail, how to
write a song like Bad Omens, sothen I'm going to be helping
them open up their own lessonlounges, doing their own thing,
and I'll be hosting it.
And then each one of those bandmembers is going to have their
own lesson lounge where they canbe like, Yo, every Saturday at
this time for two hours, I'mpopping in and I'm just

(26:23):
answering your questions andteaching a topic that we all get
to vote on.
So it's going to be like asubscription based thing where
you just kind of like tune inand catch something that's going
to be awesome.
And for me, it's about beingable to provide more income
streams for all the musicianswho are relying on touring.
I sort of like birthed this ideaduring COVID when everything

(26:44):
went to shit.
And I realized like all thesecolleges were scrambling to go
to online school and it feltlike crap, everything feels
disconnected, doesn't feel verylike personalized, and then
amidst that too, like I wasdoing a couple different pre
recorded courses with othercompanies where you sit in front
of like, Eight cameras with abunch of dudes staring at
monitors and you're trying todeliver like powerful lesson

(27:08):
content to nobody, right?
Knowing there's thousands ofpeople on the other side of the
camera.
it's just doesn't feel, doesn'tfeel good, dude.
And then you have these giantproduction costs.
I know I'm not giving my bestwork.
Anyone who watches it has aquestion.
They're fucked because it'sprerecorded.
And I started to realize thatlike lowering.

(27:28):
The standard of what is requiredis going to make it an easier
entry point for everybody.
Like, I don't know a singlestudent who's going to be like,
this isn't in four K.
Like, I'm not going to watchthis.
Like, where's the lighting?
Where's the color correction?
Like, it's not what anyone caresabout.
And to that degree, like just ushaving this conversation right
now, if you sent me thisquestion in an interview, I

(27:49):
would have answered in aparagraph.
Right.
But now that we're talking,there's all this, like Rapport
and all this like backgroundthat we can dive into.
Like that's what a live grouplesson is really going to
provide

Nik (27:59):
Yeah.

avenues for it to go.
Yeah, dude.
So that's, that's the next,that's the next thing that I'm
getting into

Nik (28:05):
I love it and I hope it's getting people to start to think
about what are differentbusiness models that I can play
with what are different incomestreams that I can use to
supplement, maybe the, thelittle bit of touring that I'm
starting to get, you know,there's a lot of different, you
know, phases of an artist careerwhere it's like, Yeah.
you start touring, but it'slike, There's a phase where it's

(28:26):
not yet really even enough to,for, for everything to like
fully, fully live off of.
And I even know artists thatare, touring relatively well and
regularly, but it's like, okay,we got to still find some other
ways to supplement things.
And so it's stepping into thatteaching and mentoring space, I
think, is so rad because, youknow, there are a lot of people
out there that they're lookingfor support.
They're looking for help.

(28:46):
You've you've put your 10, 000hours in and I was literally
talking to a client yesterdayand I was like, because he was
having a lot of resistance toKind of like charging for his
services.
He's doing the same thing,mentoring and stuff.
I was like, bro, how long youbeen doing this?
How long you been writing songs?
You know, he's like, oh, like 20years.
I'm like, dude, you've beendoing it 20 years.
You know, like, Yeah.
you there, there's a lot ofvalue and wisdom and you

(29:08):
basically have a gift.
To bring to the world and you'realmost like denying your,
you're, you're, you're not,you're letting your ego get in
the way and not allowingyourself to actually really
serve and deliver that gift, youknow, and, and not everybody is
supposed to be a teacher, youknow, and a mentor, but I think
for a lot of people, you kind ofhave that tap on your shoulder

(29:29):
and I'm sure there are somepeople out there that are
listening right now that mightkind of have that idea in the
back of their head or, or, orfeel the, the call to it.
And.
I say answer the calling, youknow, and again, not, just
because you can make money fromit, but like literally being
able to help people, And addvalue and literally like change
the course of people's lives.
Sometimes it's like, it's apretty powerful thing.

(29:50):
Like, and the return.
Of you offering that value ofadding value is that yeah, you
also can make money from it andthat can help you, actually
really support yourself as you,get to that next level in your
career.
So something to consider.

Yeah, I've, I've always thought that like
success, whether it be likefiscal or attention or like fame
or any of that stuff, those arejust byproducts of helping more
people and connecting with morepeople.

Nik (30:19):
Thousand percent.

And the second that I made that like shift and
realizing that that's whenthings started happening in a
bigger way.
And like, I've always thoughtabout this too, dude.
It's like, what's the differencebetween like.
Like a McDonald's burger andlike a steakhouse burger, like
they're both burgers, right?
It's the location.
It's the way it's served to you.
It's the quality of the fuckingstuff.

(30:41):
But at the end of the day, it'sstill just a burger.
And I imagine if McDonald's didsome like fucking prank thing
where they just like we'reserving McDonald's burgers out
of a fancy restaurant on like awhite porcelain plate, like
you'd spend 25 for that,

Nik (30:55):
yeah, yeah, yeah.
I've seen I've seen that kind ofstuff before for

Dude, it's, it's just, it's just a matter of
like, how do you create valueand how do you provide value?
And if you can successfullyprove that you're helping
people, like you said, why wouldyou starve people from that?
Why would you disservice yourown gift?

Nik (31:14):
Yeah.
So it seems also That you have alot going on.
You're teaching, you're runningyour courses, you're in a huge
fucking band that's playingshows, writing, music.
You have your own kind of soloprojects.
I think you have some other justprojects that are not

A couple.
Yeah.

Nik (31:32):
Yeah.
A couple different projects.
How do you do it all?
How do you have the capacity todo so much?
Cause you got your hands in alot of different things.

Yeah.
I mean, I was about to grab mycoffee and be like, well, but in
reality, dude, like.
And this is, you know, this isworking with Sam has been
helping me a lot.
It's a matter of like developingmore bandwidth for stuff and
like leaning into, I need helpwith this.
I need help with this becausethat frees up more capacity for

(32:03):
me to do other things.
in reality, like I've been, likeyou said, the guy that does the
thing and then people will belike, Hey, he would be a good to
bring in.
It's really, really important,for me at this point in my life,
as I'm stepping into all theseother things that I need to be
able to delegate, I need to letgo of control.
I need to practice trust.
I need to practice faith in whatI'm doing.

(32:25):
Like right now for my nextrecord that I'm about to
release, I just got one of thebest mix master engineers in
metal to do it.
Cost me an arm and a leg.
I'm about to have a wholeanimated movie that goes along
with it.
That's going to cost me.
The other two arms and legs andalso a third, a third appendage.
Um, and the two that come withit, uh, it's, it's, it's insane,

(32:49):
dude.
And it's, it's scary.
It's terrifying.
But I'm realizing that it's likewhat you just said, like, if
you're willing to help a friendout with that thousand bucks, it
comes back to eightfold.
If I'm willing to show peoplethat I have faith in what I'm
doing and I want to provide youan experience, not just like,
here's some cool songs, like Iwant to provide an experience.
Um, It takes a lot, man.

(33:09):
And this is one of the thingsthat I learned in working with
Spencer and ice nine kills islike creating something
grandiose, creating somethingbigger, creating something
larger than life, creating somelore and story for people to
kind of like really commit to,because, you know, I've already,
I've already chosen to call myshit, Dan Sugarman, which was a
huge mistake, right?

(33:30):
Cause now when I sell shirts,they're wearing my fucking name
tag on their chest.

Nik (33:34):
brand, dude.
Yeah, back, back, back to thebranding.
And this is something that wetalk about here all the time
because it is so important.
And, you know, for the,Electronic music artists,
listeners, y'all are familiarwith Slander.
I'm really good friends withDerek from Slander.
You know, one of the biggest DJduos in the fuckin scene.
They're headlining, you know,the biggest festivals all over

(33:54):
the world.
And, we had a really Good longconversation not too long ago
and a big part of thatconversation that he was talking
about was he was like Basically,the reason we are at this level
at like the huge level thatwe're at is we have been taking
huge leaps of faith By believingin ourselves so much that we're

(34:15):
willing to invest and we'rewilling to take those risky
moves with the intention ofknowing, like, we are here to
create an experience thateverybody's going to remember.
We can't just be like everybodyelse.
If we just kind of do the basicshit, then we're going to be a
basic artist.
We're not going to stand out atall.
So he's like, we, triple down onlike what we're spending like we

(34:36):
spend a fuck ton of money andexcision is another great
example of that in the in thedubstep world.
He's literally has his ownfestival now, but he spent, you
know, 10 years reinvesting everyfucking penny he made into the
brand and into the brand andjust taking these big leaps of
faith and, you know, it's a it'sa conversation I hear, more and
more.
And again, just thinking aboutice nine kills again, seeing the

(34:57):
brand, it's like, Almost everysong you guys put out, there's a
whole, not just a music video,but like a short film that comes
out with it that has like, it'sfucking cool, you know?
And, and, and when you guys goon stage, I gotta share this
story.
I saw you guys play here inAustin.
I dunno, last summer, twosummers ago.
And, uh, you guys are coming outwith different outfits and

(35:18):
costumes and there's like atheatrical performance going

It's a

Nik (35:21):
so, it, it's a Broadway show.
It's like, if this is not just anormal fucking metal band, sleep
tokens a great example too.
You know, they created theallure, the, the mystery.
It's like, whoa.
Like you gotta go see thoseguys.
Cause they're not just fivedudes in fucking jeans and a t
shirt up there, Right.
So, in, in, thinking outside thebox, investing in the brand, the
story I want to share with youreal quick, which is actually

(35:41):
really funny, is, uh, I remembergoing, I went to the Einstein
Kill Show, Actually, um, yeah,shout out Mike's dead is my
homie.
He was actually opening up, foryou guys on that, on that, on
that tour.
He went to the school that Iused to teach at, but anyways, I
basically went there by myself.
Like I was seeing Mike and theguys from the band beforehand,
but I was like, all right, I'mgoing to just, um, I got to see

(36:02):
this band.
I'm obsessed with this band.
And I started off, you know,probably like two thirds of the
way back, you know, I'm justlike, all right, I'm going to
just like, Stand in the back andkind of enjoy the show and and
then you know first song comeson I'm like, all right, and I'm
like feeling it.
I'm like, you know what likethere's not enough energy right
here I'm gonna get up a littlecloser I want to I want to get a
little bit more, you know wherepeople are moving a little bit

(36:22):
And I get up another 10 15 feetby the third song I was in the
pit with my shirt off fuckingpushing people like it literally
I had no choice.
It consumed me I was like, I'myou know, I'm almost 40 years
old.
I'm like, I'm just gonna fuckingchill I'm the old dude in the
back Bro, I didn't even make it,10 minutes into the set.
I was in the fucking pit goingcrazy, like, you guys, it was

(36:44):
such a good show.
But, you guys are doingsomething, you know, not only is
the music amazing, but you guysare doing something different up
there as well, which is, um,there's something to be said for
that, man.
There's a reason why, the bandis at, where it's at.

Yeah, dude.
We, uh, we definitely likeinviting people into the splash
zone.
For

Nik (36:59):
Ha ha, yeah,

It's, it's, it's, it's, a big part, the spatter
zone.
You're going to get bloodspatter on you for sure.
There's, there's a lot aboutthis man.
Like I'm a huge, student of,just entrepreneurship of
marketing of all this stuff.
And I've been preaching this forages to my students, the purple
cow, you know, about that ideaof the Seth

Nik (37:17):
yeah, Seth Godin, yeah,

Yeah, dude.
Like if you can do something tostand out, to be remembered,
it's going to go the distance.
Like there's so many people whoare blending in.
Like just saying the word metalbands, like doesn't really mean
much, but like we're a horrorBroadway metal band.
And all of a sudden you're like,what the fuck are those three

Nik (37:37):
yeah, yeah, yeah yeah yeah

And right off the bat, it stands out.

Nik (37:42):
Yeah, and just that concept of the purple cow for the
listeners that aren't familiarwith it I believe the idea is
basically like if you're drivingdown the street and you saw a
purple cow in a Field likeyou're gonna stop the fucking
car and get out and go look atthe purple cow,

And tell everybody about it.

Nik (37:56):
Yeah, you create something that's gonna turn heads, you
know, and that's where thethat's where the branding really
comes in for artists, I think,is, you know, what are you doing
that's different?
you can do it with the music,you know, but that's like, I
think it's harder.
It's harder to do it.
I think with the music, it's yougot to really be that next level
innovator, but The brand, Idon't want to say it's easier.
It's still the million dollarquestion.

(38:17):
how do you separate yourself andcreate something unique and
different, but I think a lot ofit really boils down to courage,
just like being courageousenough to do something different
and, and stand out, you knowwhat I mean?
Like, yeah, it takes some risks,right?
A lot of people are just scaredand kind of naturally, I think
we just sort of play it safe.

I think, a lot of people tend to ride coattails of
success and they try to like geta foot in the door on what
somebody else has done.
And I think it, it works.
It does work sometimes, but it'svery safe.
And I feel like the people withstaying power are willing to
like risk it all.
And like, like I've always saidthis to, uh, this is a fucking
Jeff Bezos quote.

(38:54):
I call him Jeff pesos cause he'sjust the fucking money man.
but it's brand is what peoplesay about you when you're not in
the room.

Nik (39:01):
hmm.
Yeah.

And it's the idea of like, like, yeah, your music
is going to make people feelsomething at absolutely will.
Right.
And you can affect what theyfeel with the imagery, with the
colors that you use, with theway that your lyrics happen, the
merge, the music videos, likeall of this stuff, just go to
support what the music issaying.
And I think there's somethingreally important to be said
about like finding a way to getpeople to talk about you so that

(39:24):
they have something to say whenyou're not in the room.
Being a conversation point islike really what I'm, what I'm
getting at.

Nik (39:30):
Totally, and there's a way of also doing it authentically.
It's not like being differentjust for the sake of being
different because you're tryingto sell yourself, but it's like,
I have a feeling, like, Spencerfrom Einstein Kills really
actually fucks with horrormovies.
And he's like, I love this shit!Like, he's into it, right?
So It's very authentic.
It's authentic.
It's real.
It's like, and so finding thatthing, like what's that thing

(39:52):
about you that you fucking loveso much that you're passionate
about?
Not like, Oh, how can I changemyself to be different?
But you are one out of 8 billionpeople in the fucking world.
There is something about you andyour taste and your style and
where you come from.
That's like, that makes you,you.
And so rather than lookingoutside of yourself at, well,
what's everybody else doing?
Look inside of yourself of like,what do I want to do?

(40:13):
What lights me up?
What would be cool?
How can we make it fucking cooland show that, you know, that's.
That's the

Yes.
Yeah, dude.
That authenticity of like, if Iwas on the other side of the
barricade, what would I want tohear?
What would I want to see?
Like fuck the expectations ofwhat you think people want.
Like feed your younger self withwhat you're making with the art
you create.
And I think that always goesfurther.
And it also feels good at theend of the day.
Cause that goes back to like theintegrity and spine thing.

(40:39):
Like, I feel like so many peoplecan sense inauthenticity.
So many people can sense that,like, try hard energy, you

Nik (40:46):
Totally.
Yeah, dude, you can feel it amillion miles away.

easy.

Nik (40:50):
Now we've talked about our mutual friend, Sam, a little
bit, and I really would love tohear a bit about.
What had you hire him as acoach?
Being a coach myself.
I so wholeheartedly believe inthe power of coaching and
there's a lot of different waysthat that can look.
But what had you hire Sam as acoach and what's the kind of

(41:12):
stuff that you guys work ontogether?

Yeah, dude.
So I saw a video of Sam onInstagram at the exact right
time.
Um, I had just gone throughhaving thyroid cancer.
It was really fucking gnarly.
Like you say, like, it's, it'sso hard, dude.
Like when someone's like, Heydude, it was so cool seeing you
at this ice nine show.

(41:35):
And I'm just like, thanks man.
In the back of my head, I'mlike, I'm not going to ruin your
stoke because I wasn't there.

Nik (41:41):
Hmm.

I've been sitting out for three years, dude.

Nik (41:43):
Oh, oh shit.
Okay.

been in all the music videos, I've been making
all the fucking music, um,

Nik (41:49):
So you haven't been touring, though?

Yep, I haven't been touring for three years.

Nik (41:53):
Oh, damn.
Because of thyroid cancer.

Because of thyroid

Nik (41:56):
Fuck, bro.

but I'm, I'm 1, 000 percent in the clear.
Uh, this is, this is like, Yeah.
Other foot dropping.
I mentioned this before, right?
Here's all these fucking awesomethings.
And then I'm going to get kickedin the nuts 10 times harder.
And then hopefully the, so I washaving the contract come through
for that year to this, this ishow Iceline operates.
We signed a contract, thetouring contract every year.

(42:18):
And I had mine come through forthe next year of touring with
Metallica.
And I had been dealing with someweird thyroid stuff.
Like my girlfriend is, she's afucking clairvoyant, which she
like feels.
Every she's like predicting whatpeople are going to like name
their kids, like when theirbirthday is going to be like
crazy shit like this.
She was having like weeks ofjust like touching her neck and

(42:41):
being freaked out and was havingme like palpate her thyroid to
make sure she was okay.
And then one day she was like,could I touch yours?
And it was fucking huge.
The next day I was basically atthe doctor and they were like,
buddy, you need a fuckingbiopsy.

Nik (42:54):
Wow.
And you weren't feeling any, youknow,

I was I was I was having a hard time breathing,
but my girlfriend was bringingher dog that I'm very allergic
over at the house all the time.
And I was just like, Oh yeah,I'm definitely just feeling
allergies.
You're like, this is normal.
It wasn't allergies.
It was thyroid cancer.
Um, yeah.
So I, I, you know, pushedthrough like my trachea was
being collapsed by a tumor on myneck.

(43:19):
It was, it was fucking gnarly.
Yeah.
it was, it was, it was veryheavy.
Um, So as I'm like, I just gotthe biopsy and the contract
comes through, and as I'mgetting ready to sign it, I get
the call from my doctor.
He's like, bro, you have, youhave thyroid cancer.
We need to get this handledimmediately.
So I called the whole team, letthem know that I couldn't do it,
uh, brought some of my goodfriends in to fill in for me.

(43:42):
That's probably who you saw.
but it's been It's been afucking blessing in disguise,
man.
I'm not even going to pretendlike it's not been the best
thing ever.
Like I've been able to focus onall these other things in my
life.
I've been able to focus on myhealth.
I've been able to focus on mywellness, fitness, my
businesses, all these things,circling back though, Sam.

(44:03):
So at this time, like rightafter I had my surgery and was
coming out of it, I then foundout my house that I was living
at had insane black mold,

Nik (44:12):
shit.

like insane levels of black mold.
And I immediately had to moveout.
And I was like, again, justgetting hit with more shit.
I had to move out real quick.
I was in like a three monthbattle with my landlord.
I was staying at an Airbnb,which was like supposed to be
covered by my landlord and hebacked out after a week.
So I was paying out the ass fora place to live for months.
And that's when I startedworking with Sam.

(44:34):
Cause I saw he had a video of.
How he basically healed himselfof throat cancer.
No, he had tongue cancer.
How he healed himself of tonguecancer with some plant medicine.

Nik (44:46):
Mm

And I just reached out to him.
I was like, Hey dude, like I'min this place right now in my
life where I truly feel like Iknow there's more to what's
going on.
I feel like there's somethingabout, you know, my throat being
my throat chakra, which is yourplace of expression.
I felt like there's so manythings that happened.
You know, during COVID thatlike, you're not supposed to

(45:07):
say, you're not supposed to talkabout amidst, having a really
gnarly breakup during COVID.
And then I found my newgirlfriend who's been fucking
incredible.
There's just so much like pentup stuff in there that I felt
like was toxic.
And I felt like I needed to finda place to express that safely
as well with, with someone thatwas going to be able to help me
through all those, like deeper.

(45:29):
caverns of what the fuck isgoing on and how to like work
through that.
And Sam was monumental and thatlike, we, we immediately got to
work on that stuff.
Um, and ironically, what's thetime?
Is it about hours from now in aweek?
I will be doing my secondayahuasca ceremony, which is
going to be massive.

(45:50):
Super, super stoked about that,

Nik (45:52):
dude.
Powerful stuff.

So powerful.
So powerful.
I did it on November 1st.
About two months ago now, and itwas just like, I knew exactly
what I've been doing wrong.
I knew exactly what I needed todo.

Nik (46:04):
Tell me about, tell me about that, man.
I've done Ayahuasca once.
It's been, I think, four or fiveyears ago.
I have felt, for a while now,I've really felt called to come
back.
I'd love to do it once a year,you know what I mean?
Like, I'm so curious about whatthat experience was like for you
and what came up through it.
I know it's hard to describe.
I know it's hard to put intowords, but in a nutshell, yeah.

about, like, the 3D aspects.
Obviously, there's this whole,like, 5D, you know, like,
seeing, like, fractals andpeople morphing into, like,
creatures and the odd, like, allthe, all the

Nik (46:37):
shot, I shot to the center of the earth like a fucking
cannon, you know, and then wentand saw my, my chest open up and
got to see my third chakrapulsating and, you know, there's
that side of it.

Yeah.
Yeah.
But the, as far as like the, theimmediate takeaways, um, you
know, it was, it was, it wassuper, super fucking powerful,
man.
Like, uh, this group that I doit with, they're fucking
incredible.
Very in depth knowledge, very,very connected.
Everything is super clean andpure and high quality.

(47:10):
It was the first night.
And I was invited to go onto thehealing mat.
Like there's like a couple ofthe facilitators do like Reiki
energy work, craniosacral, andI'm sitting there absolutely
like blasted off, you know whatI mean?
Just in another dimension beyondanother dimension.
and I sit down and the shamanstarts just like, I didn't

(47:31):
really tell any of them mytraumas, my griefs, my issues.
Right.
And immediately the shamanstarts just like, because he's
an incredible musician, hestarts improvising a song about
like forgiving your father.
And that's like, that's like oneof my biggest fucking things,
right?
And he's just channeling exactlywhat I needed to hear.

(47:52):
And then this other lady starteddoing Reiki on me and she starts
saying like, we miss her, welove her.
She's with us now.
My mom passed away eight yearsago and she's channeling my mom
while my dad's being channeledhere.
And my body wanted to cry, but Istarted laughing hysterically.

Nik (48:11):
Huh.

Like hysterical, like loud as fuck laughing,
right?
And it continued for the next,like, seven hours where I was
just like non stop laughing.
And afterwards, when you finishup the ceremony around like 3 a.
m.
And you like go and you're like,everyone's having like soup and
just like trying to come back tolife.
I'm talking to one of thefacilitators who is incredible

(48:32):
at craniosacral, incrediblecoach and healer.
And I asked him about that.
I was like, dude, like I feltlike I was supposed to cry, but
I started laughing and he looksat me and goes, that means you
get the joke.

Nik (48:43):
Hmm.

a kid doesn't understand what's going on,
they'll cry, but when they getthe joke, they'll laugh.

Nik (48:51):
Wow.

And it just dawned on me in that moment that like,
I had like moved past.
All of my hangups.
I moved past all of my hurdlesand I was on the other side of
like understanding the humorthat is this universe.

Nik (49:05):
Wow.

And it was just so fucking profound, dude.
It was so fucking profound.

Nik (49:10):
Yeah.
Yeah,

Bunch of other stuff too, but that was that was
like massive.

Nik (49:15):
I love that, man.
I really love hearing that.
It's funny cause, uh, I just raninto somebody the other day, a
very, very, like, High level,powerful person in the personal
transformation space.
They run like this map, youknow, some massive community.
And, it was my first timemeeting them and I was just
asking them.
I'm like, man, I, at your level,like they're at this like top

(49:37):
dog level.
I'm like, what kind of trainingdo you do?
You know, it's like, I'll go tothe weekend workshop, but this
guy runs the weekend workshop.
I'm like, what do you do?
And he's like, he's like, yeah,man, to be honest, he's like, we
do ayahuasca.
plant medicine has been like thehuge part in the continuation of
the growth.
And, um, it just hit me.
I was like, man, I'm like, yeah,that.

(49:58):
Gets to be a part of my journeyagain, you know, you can read so
many books, you can do thepodcast, you can take the
courses or whatever, but it'slike, there's that, that
spiritual growth that, it's justa different level and it can
completely like reorganizesevery, you know, cell in your
body and, um, hearing you, youknow, that was literally like,
Oh, two weeks ago, less than twoweeks ago.

(50:20):
And so hearing you bring this upright now, for me, that's always
how it works is it's like, oh,it just starts popping up and
it's, it's, you know, mama Gaiatalking to you saying, Hey,
it's, it's, it's your time, it'syour time.
So I'm, I'm receiving thatcalling and, um, Yeah, for me, I
had a big breakthrough aroundmy, it was a lot of stuff around
my dad as well in my ceremonyand that introduced me to the

(50:43):
whole world of men's work, whichis actually, I think, probably
how I know Sam as well.
Just that whole really, reallydeep and powerful path of,
exploring the, yeah, just the,the masculine journey.
And especially when we have, youknow, uh, yeah, maybe not the
best relationship with ourfather is it's a, it's, there's
a lot of really powerful healingto be done around that.
And I definitely can thank likeIowaska for starting that

(51:03):
journey for me.
It's been hugely, hugelytransformational.
So Yeah, man, we get, we get togo back.
You said, you said you alreadyhave, another ceremony, um,

as Yeah.
like literally next week today.

Nik (51:17):
Good for you, bro.
Good

Yeah, dude, it's, it's, it's fucking incredible,
man.
I'm super, super, lucky.
Uh, where I was living, theplace that had mold, uh, this
British dude moved next door tome and like immediately we hit
it off and we were hanging outlike every day and he's one of
the facilitators at thisayahuasca ceremony and for two
and a half years was just likeslowly chipping away at my

(51:39):
concerns and my worries.
And he helped me through.
My cancer stuff.
He was driving me to likedoctor's appointments and just
like pointing at like littlethings about what I would say in
my beliefs, one of my bestfucking friends, dude.
And he's sadly moving back tothe UK at the end of this month.
And this opportunity to go dothe ceremony and Joshua tree
came up and I'm like, dude,that's my favorite place in the

(51:59):
world.
I've been trying to get me andmy girlfriend to go on a
vacation there.
I guess I'm going to go, I'mgoing to go, to the moon and
Joshua tree.
Um,

Nik (52:08):
Joshua Tree is incredibly spiritual.
There's really, really powerfulenergy out there.
It's like, yeah, yeah.

something something about like being in
the desert where like time is sodifferent like you'll have a
three inch cactus That's beenalive for like 40 years.
It's just like like you learn somuch from that shit and just
like ayahuasca in my humbleBeginning understanding like for
me.
It really just like helps youmove past stuff because of like

(52:38):
it it's An inner knowing, right?
Like I, I question everything.
Like Sam all the time.
I'll say some shit.
I'm like, yeah, yeah.
But like, why, how, what, when.
Right.
And there's this aspect of like,I have a feeling that a lot of
artists are very, um, they needto make the choice.
Like if you're told to dosomething, you might do it.
But if you make the choice to doit, you're going to fucking do

(52:59):
it.
Right.
I feel like ayahuasca kind ofremoves those barriers and it
just allows you to just likemove past things.
At blazing speed at light speedand it like clears the debris.
It clears the path and it helpsyou see yourself through a
mirror that you didn't reallyknow existed.
And like, there's so much likediscussion about the integration
work that comes afterwards.

Nik (53:20):
Yeah.

And personally, dude, I felt like I just walked
out a different person and justwas able to find new things to
add to how I view the world,right?
Like there's this fucking firegoing on, right?
Right now in LA, um, the otherday I was meditating.
I went to the beach, wasmeditating for about 30 minutes,
and then I looked to my rightand Malibu's on fire.

(53:41):
It wasn't on fire 30 minutesprior.
And I'm sitting there and I'mgoing, holy shit.
And then I look in front of meand there's a pod of like 50
dolphins playing with seals,right?
And I'm going, holy shit, thisis the universe giving me like
two options of what to focus onright now.
I could focus on like play andbeauty and like.
nutrients because they're forsure feasting on some fish or I

(54:03):
could focus on destruction anddevastation.
And then in the next day I wentdown to the beach to meditate
and it came to me that like fireis an incredible force of
destruction, but it's also abringer of life, right?
Like it will burn out a wholegrass field to create a serious
amount of nutrients for the nextgeneration and dormant seeds in

(54:27):
the earth will bloom because ofthat.
And then on top of that, like,all these, all these hills are
filled with fucking sage, dude.
Like, you're literally sagingCalifornia right now.
And I'm not gonna sit here andlike, toxic positivity

Nik (54:41):
Yeah.

out of something.
Like, this is devastating, but

Nik (54:43):
Yeah,

I feel like there's something beautiful
inside of this.
And I don't know what's to come,but I feel good about all of
this.
And it's like, to me, these arethings that are coming from my
time.
You With ayahuasca.
It's like this new perspectivethat I have where it's like,
yeah, I could choose to seethings like that.
But like, also, how quick can Icome back to neutral?

(55:06):
How quick can I come out of anegative and back to neutral and
then choose a positive outcomeand then just like lean into
that?
And it's been massive, dude.

Nik (55:13):
Beautiful, bro.
Beautiful.
Yeah.
I, I talk a lot about dualityand it's kind of the foundation
of my entire really coachingpractice, you know, is we're
living in an experience ofduality.
Like Yeah.
Yeah.
The duality of life and deathlike we're alive and part of
being alive is that there's alsodeath they go together right

(55:33):
there is destruction and there'screation they both totally exist
and we might feel pulled to onlylike the good stuff but we don't
get the good stuff without thebad and there's a little bit of
this, you know, just acceptancewhere yeah, there's a lot of
beauty when we see the wholething.
The whole big picture right andand and you know so true as well

(55:55):
of like yeah What are wechoosing to focus on what's
fucked up in this world isalways going to be available
It's always going to beavailable and what's incredibly
beautiful is always going to beavailable to and you know I
think it is part of our aspeople that are on a conscious
path to start becoming moreaware and more conscious of
like, where is our focus going?
Where is our energy going?

(56:16):
Because whatever you feed isgoing to grow.
And a lot of people are onlyfocusing on all the fucked up
shit.
And it's like, well, that'sgoing to create a very different
experience of life for you.
You know?

Yeah, yeah, dude.
It's like on the small timeline.
It's really, really easy to getconsumed in negative stuff.
But like, how pissed were thedinosaurs to die?
You know, but like, holy shit,if they didn't, like, would we
be here at all?
Right?
Like when you zoom out, like youdon't know anything.
And I think constantly existingin that, like, maybe state,

(56:45):
like, maybe it's good.
Maybe it's bad.
It helps you kind of like createroom and bandwidth and capacity
for like more beautiful shit tocome through.
And I feel like that's been oneof the biggest aspects of just
circling this back of like mycareer of finding a way to, you
know, we, we, we bypassed abunch of shit.
Um, I left as blood runs blackto after touring with them for

(57:07):
seven years and writing tworecords with them.
I left that band to be my mom'scaregiver for the last, she was
supposed to die about fourmonths after I left the band.
And I found this.
It was called Rick Simpson oil.
It's like a cannabis distillate.
And I started giving that to mymom and her tumor shrunk 45
percent

Nik (57:23):
wow,

she lived another two and a half years.
And it was, it was incredible,dude.
It was fucking incredible.
Had that not happened, nothingwould be what it is.
Right.
And then I moved to tech.
I moved to Austin, Texas.
I lived where you're living.
I was living there for threeyears in round rock.

Nik (57:39):
oh cool,

started a music education company that I went
all in with, with a dude whowound up effectively being a
scam artist.
we were working on it reallyheavily, but I was doing most of
the heavy lifting, most of thefunding.
We worked on it really, reallyheavy.
And then I went on a familyvacation and came back and the
house was emptied.
All the gear that we hadpurchased together, he stole and

(58:00):
moved out.

Nik (58:01):
no way,

It was absolutely insane.
And I was left with fucking jackshit.
I was left with nothing, dude.
And like not to get.
Really fucking deep here, butthis is another one of those,
like, if you want to hit a plusten in life, you need to hit a
negative ten first so you canget that momentum.
was at the point where I'd likethat was money that I inherited
from my mom passing away and Iinvested in all this stuff and

(58:23):
all of it was gone for for what?
Right.
And I was at this point of likelooking for how to end it.
I was googling how to end it allright.
And in that search, I stumbledon Wim Hof breathing

Nik (58:35):
mm,

and the next day I committed to trying it.
And then a day after that Ipulled myself out of out of that
loop.
Like it was done.
There was there was like sixmonths of I couldn't leave my
house without blacking outbecause I had so much anxiety
and so much depression and allof a sudden it was just like
lifted and within a few weeks ofthat got contacted to join ice

(58:56):
nine kills through an accidentalmanifestation practice that I
did.
I was visualizing like points inmy life where I felt the most
powerful, the most comfortable,the most me, the most at peace.
And it was always me on stage indifferent places, right?
And then all of a sudden whatcomes through is an opportunity
to be in a metal band again.
And it was, they were, they werein a place where their career

(59:17):
was just fucking blooming,right?
Like they had just released oneof the, what was to be one of
their first big records, thesilver scream.
And that was like, that took meto here minus like, you know,
the, the cancer shit, all thatstuff.
Um, but it's just that, likethat pendulum shit, right?
Like I, you got to slingshotbackwards to slingshot forwards.

Nik (59:36):
this is something that A concept I was introduced to
relatively recently from mymentor and my coach, who's also
Sam's coach and mentor, Preston.
If you know Preston Smiles, um,for anyone listening right now,
if you haven't listened to theepisode I did with Preston, go
watch that on YouTube.
Really, really incredible.
If you're, resonating with anyof the stuff that me and Dan are

(59:57):
talking about right now, it'sreally, really good.
But he, Was talking about range,this idea of range that, you
know, our ability to feel.
Whereas most of us are operatingon a, on a, out of a scale of
one to 10, a lot of us are atmaybe like a four or a five, and
I think I'm one of them.
I'm like, oh, you know, I, don'treally allow myself to get.

(01:00:19):
Too upset.
I don't really like allow myselfto really feel really heavy
negative feelings But then Ialso don't really allow myself
to feel Incredibly blissful, youknow, and so There's something
about having range right of likeno, I actually can go And into
the deepest darkest nastiestcorners of the human experience

(01:00:39):
and I can allow myself to gothere I can actually fucking
feel all of that And then whatthat does also is it allows me
to have more range to feel theamazing beauty and the bliss and
the joy and everything thatcomes with that.
But a lot of us are kind ofliving in this sort of lukewarm
middle area where it's like,yeah, we don't, it's, we don't
feel that bad, but we also don'tfeel that great.

(01:00:59):
And so I know that's part of myjourney right now is like
learning how to feel more like Iwant to feel, let me actually
fucking feel things.
You know, I live in my head alot, you know, I'm very mental
and a lot of, a lot of us dolike we're living in our head.
But how much do we actually livein our feelings and in our body?
And it is through our lifeexperiences as well.
Like having those, you know,kind of horrible, shitty life

(01:01:20):
experiences, but also getting tohave the fucking amazing life
experiences as well.

Dan Sugarman (01:01:25):
Absolutely, dude.
It's that, that one plus oneequals three shit.
Like your head plus your heartcreates an entirely new life,
right?
And I, I've had this like visioncome to me more and more and
more, and I'm starting tounderstand how to apply it.
But it's like an atom is aproton.
An electron and a neutron,right?
We have the positive, thenegative, and the neutron is the

(01:01:46):
neutral.
The thing that holds space forthe other two things to exist.
God really.
Right.
And I'm recognizing that like byallowing ourselves to exist as a
positive or a negative, it's notlike, don't feel bad things,
don't feel good things for toolong.
It's how soon can you swing backto neutral to create space for
both things to exist again?

Nik (01:02:07):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, which means we actually have to feel
whatever's there.
You know, we try to resist.
I don't want to feel bad.
And so the resistance, you know,what you resist persists, right?
We do whatever we can to numb ordistract or to not actually
really feel it, but like, yeah,actually allowing yourself to,
you know, the metaphor a lot ofpeople use a lot or the, I don't
know, the example people use islike when, uh, antelope is

(01:02:30):
getting chased by a cheetah andit's like it the cheetah like
almost gets it and grabs it bythe neck But then somehow it
slips and it gets away andthere's that moment where it's
like it just went through crazytrauma But then it allows itself
to just like shakes it

Shakes it off.

Nik (01:02:46):
it's just like, okay It's like I actually am allowing
myself to to feel everything tomove and to shake and to be
embodied in that But then I letit go and a lot of us are like
we're staying, you know We'rejust resisting actually feeling
everything that it stays in ourlittle kids and animals, they do
it so much better than, thanadults, you know.
A little kid will allowthemselves to actually just have

(01:03:06):
the fucking tantrum.
You know, there's a lot we canlearn from those and, uh, yeah.
But, anyways, a big rabbit holewe can go down around all of
that, man.

Easy.

Nik (01:03:16):
One more question I want to ask is How do you think your
experience doing ayahuasca hasinfluenced you as an artist?

It's interesting, dude.
Um, it's only been two monthssince I last did it.
Right.
So I'm gonna like, even intalking with Sam, like this
opportunity came up, he waslike, bro, you're ready.
Like go hit it again.
Like you're, you're ready forthe accelerator.
You know?
Um, I've only worked on, it'snot true because I'm producing a

(01:03:49):
few bands.
I only worked on one of my ownsongs since Ayahuasca.
I've worked on countless songswith other bands.
I feel like what's happening isI'm more on instinct.
I would say working from theheart a bit more than the head.
Right?
Like I'm able to just likeimmediately Suss out where, uh,

(01:04:10):
a deficit is in the song andthen I'm able to immediately
express the way that it needs tobe expressed, how to fill that
void.
And it's been an incredibleapplication, honestly, so far.
Like I feel, I feel more in mybody might be the best way to
say it.
Yeah.

Nik (01:04:29):
I'm gathering is, uh, for anyone out there that might be a
little blocked, that might bestruggling.
Go do some breath work, do someWim Hof, do some ayahuasca, do
some plant medicine, visualize,right, visualize the future that
you want.
Honestly, all that shit reallyworks, man, and it's cool to,
it's cool to meet somebody thatis, uh, that's doing that, you
know.
It's funny, it's like, that'swhy I came to Austin, was to,

(01:04:52):
you know, Really go deep intothe coaching community.
And so those are kind of thethose are the people I hang with
out here It's like the ones thatare really in that
Transformational space and Ileft behind the the real LA
music industry kind ofnightclub, Seen that I was a
part of but I think that'sthere's a really cool space
where it all I think gets toenter Intersect and I'm just
excited to see more and moreartists that are like realizing

(01:05:15):
that like, Hey, I'm going tohave more success in my career.
I'm going to make better music.
I'm going to have less energeticblocks when I do some of this
transformational work, you know,when I do some of the spiritual
work, when I allow myself to, toyeah, get a little curious and
like, see what's out there.
There's so many tools and somany modalities and it's just,
um, it's cool to see that you'redoing that, man.

Oh, dude, it's, it's fucking huge, dude.
Like even just the word spiritcomes from the Latin word speed,
a, which means breathe, right?
Conspire means to breathetogether.
Inspire means to breathe in.
All of this stuff to me is likesomething that we are born to
do.
And as artists and creatives, Ifeel like it's important for us

(01:05:58):
to tap into, like I saidearlier, like the most authentic
version of what you can do,because that is like, You were
brought to this place to singyour fucking note and to the
choir of the universe so that wecould all make some fucking
harmony, you know what I mean?

Nik (01:06:12):
Let's

And it's, it's so fucking easy to get consumed and
like, you know, if someone'ssinging next to you and they're
kind of off, like you mightmodulate yourself to sound good
with them, but then you'refucking up your own thing.
Right?
So like going based off of yourown internal compass and finding
what makes the most sense to youand leaning into you more double
down, triple down.

(01:06:33):
That stuff is going to make yougo so much further than
following any handbook thatwould be handed to you from
anybody else.
but even to that degree, causeas I'm saying this, we're both
coaches, we're both mentorsreach out, ask for help when you
need it.
There's always going to besomeone who's one step ahead of
you that wants to point pitfallsto you.
He wants to point out thingsthat you could do to elevate it,

(01:06:54):
but always just know that like,it's you who did the work and
it's you, who's going to bringyou to the next level.

Nik (01:06:59):
Yeah.
Beautiful, bro.
Beautiful.
That is such a mic drop moment.
Like, tune into your ownauthentic frequency.
I always say it's like we allhave our own tuning, like a
radio tuner.
There's a certain, certain,like, frequency that you gotta
find what yours is.
And once you lock in, like, youcan really do it.
Your station, but like if you'retuned, if you're like, Oh, I'm

(01:07:20):
trying to listen to thisstation.
Cause that's what everyone elseis listening to.
It's like, no, that's not you.
Tune yourself in and you know,easier said than done.
It's a process and it's ajourney and it's a lot of, you
know, yeah.
Inward reflection and work, butit is work that's worth doing
for sure.

Yeah, dude.
Yeah, absolutely.
the Focus of like, what are youconsuming, which creates the
output that you have?
Like it's all, it's all really,really important stuff.
And I feel like this journeythat we're all on is such a
fucking gift.
Right.
And, and anything that we coulddo to make this journey more fun
for ourselves or for others islike what we're here to do, like

(01:07:58):
that's the humor, that's thehumor of the universe.

Nik (01:07:59):
yeah, yeah, the cosmic joke right there.
Yeah, bro.
We take shit so seriously Like Ithink that's something I get to
play with play with more is it'slike oh like will we get up?
We get so fucking serious.
It's like what if none of thisis serious What if like all of
this is just a game and likewe're we're supposed to just
play?
Play and there's actually we'reactually really inherently
invincible, you know what Imean?

(01:08:20):
Like what what if you know, likewhat if we're like when we die,
we just wake up and we're like,whoa That was yeah, like we're
just like with our little alienbuddies on some other planet.
We're like that was fuckingcrazy

Right.
We take off our VR goggles.
We take them off.
We're like,

Nik (01:08:31):
Yeah, yeah, dude like what if man like let's let's let's
approach life like that like weall get so fucking serious and
It's not healthy, you know, itliterally causes you just stress
and anxiety and I would like tocall that in for myself more

yeah, dude.
Innocent, innocent play.
Yeah, dude.
That's where it's all at, dude.
Like when I'm, when I'm coachingpeople in the songwriting shit,
that's what it's all about.
It's like, remember when you gotyour first like toy truck,
remember how fucking cool thatwas every day?
Remember?
Like you would just like findsomething new to do with it no
matter what, right?
Why do we look at stuff that we?
No, as something that we'velike, like, I look at my guitar

(01:09:08):
every time I pick it up, likeI've never seen it before.
And anytime a note comes out ofit, I'm like, what the fuck was
that?
And that like excited, innocentplay is what leads to something
incredible.
And I think like, that's thechannel.
When you tune into that, likemore stuff wants to come through
you.
And the more you can clean yourchannel, the more you could like
tap into that frequency you weretalking about, the more you

(01:09:30):
become an FM station that otherpeople want to tune into.

Nik (01:09:33):
Dude, cleaning your channel.
That's, that's it right there.
What are you consuming?
You know, what are, what are youeating?
Are you treating your physicalenergy the right way?
Like this is a big thing I talkabout in my program is back to
what you were saying, we're alljust atoms and frequency.
And so when you can raiseyourself to the highest
frequency by cleaning out yourchannel, it's just like, all
right, treat your body well,like put good food and, you

(01:09:55):
know, Get good sleep and like,you know, like don't treat your
body like shit, but your mind aswell.
Like, what are you consuming?
What are you watching every day?
You know, there's so muchgarbage out there.

Mm hmm.

Nik (01:10:04):
with?
All right there is such a way toalmost like purify ourselves
like we know what's good for usand we know what's not and it's
like the more we Can raise thatvibrational frequency.
It's like you just have accessman Like you just start getting
those fucking downloads everyday man manifesting cool shit
every day Like it really worksand That's where the work is to

(01:10:25):
do.
That's the work I really lovehelping people with.
It's like, yo, let's get thatvessel clean, you

Yeah, straight up, man.
Like I have this, this visualall the time that I'm seeing is
just like, if the universe, ifGod, if source, if whatever it
is, is light.
We are We're like a mirror forstuff to like move through.
If that shit is dirty, we'regoing to be refracting.
Mm hmm.
We're going to be dissipating.

(01:10:50):
We're going to be dimming thatlight.
But if you clean that glass, ifyou clean that mirror, that
light will shine through youexactly as it was delivered to
you.
And I feel like that is kind oflike each of our individual
purposes.
That's what I feel like is mypurpose as like a teacher and a
mentor and a coach, so much ofwhat I do with my students is
like talking about that kind ofshit, like getting them to tap

(01:11:10):
into their heart and get out oftheir hands and get out of their
head.
Like You were just saying, likeall the stuff you're consuming,
What about the thoughts that arebanging around up in there, like
like cleaning that shit up,cleaning out the inner voice,
training the inner voice, likeit's, it's no different than a
bicep, you know?

Nik (01:11:25):
dude, one of my favorite books and practices is doing
morning pages coming from theartist's way.
I don't know if

Yep, yep, absolutely.

Nik (01:11:34):
daily, like every day, just write down or night or at any
time.
But just like write three pagesof thoughts, you know,

Mm hmm.

Nik (01:11:40):
it morning pages, just getting that brain dump.
There's so much clutter.
There's so much like.
clunky, you know, thoughts thatdon't really serve us and just
get them out.
One of the best ways to get themout is to just write them down.
And like, that's like a constantdaily purging and purification
that all of a sudden you'relike, Oh my God, literally like
my thoughts are just betterbecause I'm getting all the bad
ones out every day.

Absolutely, dude.
I love that stuff, man.
I love that shit.
Dude, I literally, we could talkforever,

Nik (01:12:06):
yeah.

sense both of us trying to wrap up and then we're
like, Wait, there's one morelittle rabbit hole.
Fuck

Nik (01:12:14):
we'll do we'll do another one man next

Yeah, let's do

Nik (01:12:17):
you make it out to austin We'll do an in person one and
we'll pick up where we left offBut we're gonna just we're gonna
leave you guys there.
Thank you all for tuning in thisweek dan Thank you so much for
hopping on brother like I said,man, it's this is so rad to not
only just be a huge fan of youand, and the band and the music
that you're making with ice ninekills, but to like, just see

(01:12:37):
where you're at on your journey,just spiritually, mentally, like
you are such a, a true authenticartist.
And those are my favorite kind.
So it's great to connect withyou, bro.

it's been a fucking honor, dude.
Thank you so much for having me.
And I can't wait for round two.

Nik (01:12:50):
Hell yeah.

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DAN SUGARMAN (Ice Nine Kills) - Going ALL-IN On Yourself And Your Dreams

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}DAN SUGARMAN (Ice Nine Kills) - Going ALL-IN On Yourself And Your Dreams