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June 30, 2025 59 mins

In a music industry that never stops moving, how do you stay grounded, intentional, and actually enjoy the journey?

This week I’m joined by Dr. Sunni, a licensed psychologist and coach for DJs and creatives, whose work sits at the intersection of mental health and the electronic music industry. We dive into the deep end of artist mindset — from burnout and comparison to self-worth, imposter syndrome, and the hustle culture that keeps so many artists stuck.

We get into:

  • How to stay connected to your purpose when social media takes over
  • The trap of chasing external validation (and how to break free from it)
  • The common challenge of imposter syndrome 
  • Simple tools to rewire your brain and create lasting mindset shifts
  • Why mindfulness is the antidote to burnout — and how to actually practice it

Whether you’re trying to grow your brand, build momentum, or just keep your sanity intact, this one’s full of grounded wisdom and real talk.

🎧 Tune in, take notes, and share it with a friend who needs it.

Follow Dr. Sunni here:
https://www.instagram.com/shaping_success

Follow Nik Cherwink here:
https://www.instagram.com/nikcherwink

And visit my site to join the mailing list or book a free coaching call:
https://www.nikcherwink.com


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Transcript

Episode Transcript

Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Dr. Sunni (00:00):
You've gotta still be connected to the why of why you
started doing this in the firstplace.
'cause if you lose that, then,then what are you really doing?

riverside_nik_cherwink_r (00:17):
What's up everybody?
Welcome to the Headliner Mindsetpodcast.
This week's guest is a licensedpsychologist and mindset coach
that works specifically withelectronic music artists and
DJs.
And as someone who first andforemost still considers myself
a life coach, I was really,really excited to connect with
her because she's one of thevery few other people that I've

(00:39):
seen that's out there doing thesame kind of work that I do.
So in this episode, we get intothe mental game behind what it
takes to succeed in the musicindustry.
We talk about burnout andimposter syndrome, the pressure
to stay relevant and how to stayconnected to your purpose when
everything seems to startrevolving around social media
and chasing numbers.

(01:00):
So if you're feeling stuck,overwhelmed, or disconnected
from your why, you're gonna lovethis episode.
This is Dr.
Sonny La Paso.

Nik (01:09):
Sonny, welcome to the show.
I am so excited to be diving inwith you because you are one of
the very few other coaches thatI have met that is really
specifically in this zone of notonly helping, you know, DJs and
artists, but like really on themindset side of things.

(01:29):
You are a doctor, apsychologist.
Like I got so excited when Iconnected with you online.
I'm like, oh my God.
There's another one, there'sanother coach out there that is
helping with this very importantmindset piece of being an artist
and navigating the electronicmusic industry.
So, uh, welcome to the show.

(01:50):
I'm so excited to meet you andreally looking forward to diving
in with you.

Dr. Sunni (01:55):
Thanks for having me, Nick.
So excited to meet you too.
Um, we're.
So aligned in so many ways.
So really happy to be here andcan't wait for this
conversation.
And you know, also talking aboutwhat we might do together as
well.

Nik (02:08):
Yeah, totally.
So I would love to just startoff hearing your story.
How the heck did you end upbeing a coach for DJs?
'cause I asked myself that samequestion.
I'm like, how did this happen?
How did I end up here?
This was not something that Iwrote on my goals list someday.
I just was like following thebreadcrumbs of intuition and
just like the universe broughtme here.
So I'm so curious about yourstory and how you ended up doing

(02:32):
what you're doing today as wellas what is it specifically that
you are doing today?

Dr. Sunni (02:36):
Sure.
Yeah, I think that's a greatquestion and.
It's really interesting how Iended up here really merging my
passion and purpose together.
It was never on my bingo card,you know, wasn't on the game
plan.
Um, but here I am and I guess,you know, really my whole career
has been as a psychologist andeven prior to that, all of my

(03:00):
jobs have been, we're alwayshelping people, um Right.
Helping people in different waysand then becoming a
psychologist.
And interestingly like, sothings kind of shifted over
time.
So I became a clinicalpsychologist, and then, you
know, was thrown into aleadership position with no
training in leadership and thenthrown into starting my own

(03:21):
business with no idea how to dothat either.
And, you know, over theseexperiences started to learn a
lot from personal experienceabout.
Um, failure right about, uh,learning by doing right.
You have no idea what you'redoing, you're just trying
things, navigating that.
And then also, you know, dealingwith burnout myself.

(03:43):
Um, so, you know, after becominga psychologist, several years
in, I started my own privatepractice where I really worked
with two sorts of groups ofpeople.
And one of those groups waspeople struggling with issues
related to work.
Whether that was their boss,whether that was the work they

(04:03):
were doing that wasn'tfulfilling and they wanted to do
something else, whether theywere dealing with burnout, all
sorts of things, because ourwork life affects us personally.
Um, and then the other groupthat I was really working with
were creatives.
Whether they were actors,singers, or writers.
Those were the three main groupsand all of the struggles that
they dealt with with writers,block facing rejection,

(04:26):
performance.
All of those types of things.
And you know, after doingtherapy for several years, um,
somewhere along these lines, Igot into dance music.
My whole life has been music.
I'm initially from the Bronx andwas raised on hip hop.
Like I was the biggest hip hophead.
I, you have no idea.

(04:47):
And, um, you know, never reallywas that into dance music,
except when it was like mixedwith hip hop.
If it was, you know, jungleBrothers or, you know, de La
Soul, where they were sort ofbringing in some house elements,
um, until really ACI and, um,you know, totally loved levels
and started to get me to reallycross over.

Nik (05:08):
I knew I liked you because a vichi is my number one all
time favorite electronic musicproducer.
Always will be rest in peace.
But he's, he's my number one.
So the fact that you justbrought up aci, let's go.
We are kindred spirits.
Indeed.

Dr. Sunni (05:23):
We totally are.
And, you know, achy le level,you know, levels.
That was like the initial songand, you know, I had to use the
word level in the title of mybook, which I'll, you know, I'll
talk about a little bit later.
Anyway, so started while I'mdoing this private practice,
really getting into dance music.
And about 10 years or so ago,attended my first festival and

(05:46):
that was like, it, I, it wasEDC, Puerto Rico.
And, um, I probably, I knew likeone artist that was playing and
maybe like a few songs and I wasjust sort of completely blown
away by the community, the senseof community, um.
Just the whole vibe of it.

(06:07):
Like, again, I didn't know anyof the music.
I had no idea, but I had thebest time.
It was like a changingexperience for me.
Like again, having grown up onhip hop, um, going to Summer Jam
every year in New York or, youknow, and being very familiar
with the club scene and also,you know, knowing some people on
the hip hop side of theindustry.

(06:27):
This was just a really differentexperience unlike anything ever
before.
So, um, I'm also a big foodieand traveler, so I was like, I
need to go to more festivals.
That's it.
So I started traveling aroundfestivals and going to festivals
in different countries, andreally sort of understanding the

(06:49):
fan side of it, right, from howit is in different countries,
how they respond to differentartists, how the crowd changes
based on the country you're in.
And again, was just doing this.
Out of my, like, love for it.
Like I got so into it.
Um, and started to get to knowdifferent DJs, you know, who
were working in the industry,who were coming up and here's

(07:10):
sort of their struggles.
So at the same time, in thisprivate practice, I kept
thinking to myself, with all thepeople that struggled with work
issues, it really sucks thatthings have to get so bad for
people to come to therapy.
Right?
Like, why, why aren't thingsmore proactive?
Like, I wanna be on the otherside of it because if work is

(07:32):
better, right?
If you're doing things that youenjoy that are aligned with your
purpose and values, like itdoesn't have to go there.
So, um, that sort of led me fiveyears ago to start a consulting
business and, you know, gettingtraining in executive coaching
and leadership development andreally doing work on the front
end to make workplaces better,to help business owners be

(07:56):
better leaders, right?
Because it all starts withleadership, the CEO, um, you
know, if they're doing better,if they have an idea of how
they're managing themselves andleading themselves and how to
lead people, things would be alot better.
So, at the same time as I'mworking with these CEOs, I'm
also, talking to different DJsbecause we're friends and I'm
hearing some of their strugglesand I'm like, this is not very

(08:20):
different from what CEOs gothrough, right?
You're, you're leading a team,you're building a business, most
times you have no idea how to doit.

Nik (08:29):
Well, and you are the CEO of your own business.
That's something I hammer homeoften is like when you are
crossing over from just being anartist that's making music to, I
want to be successful in themusic business.
You're not applying for a jobsomewhere to go be an employee.
You are starting your ownbusiness.
You are deciding that I'm goingto be a self-employed

(08:51):
entrepreneur, I'm gonna berunning my own company.
And that's a piece that reallyneeds to get through to people's
mind is like, you are runningyour own company.
You are the CEO, like you'remanager, you're agent, you're
team like, yeah, you gotta runthe team.
So totally dead on.
Like, I say that all the time aswell.
Like, yeah, you are a CEO.
There is no

Dr. Sunni (09:08):
Come completely and like, you know, like you said,
whether you're doing it allyourself or you get to the point
where you can build a team to dothat.
There are so many differentskills involved.
In, you know, in figuring outhow to do this and how to do it,
you know, the right way.
I mean, if there is a right way,but I mean with intentionally, I
mean, and so I'm like, there isso much overlap, right?

(09:29):
It's like the decision makingunder stress, the performance
piece, the leading a team, thebalancing everything, the, you
know, the burnout component.
So I'm like, why am I not doingthis right?
Like, I have an understanding, adeep understanding from the fan
side.
Um, you know, I'm starting toget to know and hear
similarities in differentstories of people I know who are

(09:52):
DJs.
Um, so that's sort of how itcame to be.
So really it was kind of ablending of like my work passion
with my personal passion.
And it's really been the mostrewarding work I've done
throughout my career.

Nik (10:07):
I love that.
That's so cool.
And, and then it's very similarfor me as well, just blending
the passions, right?
It's like, I loved, for me, Iloved music and then
specifically got into theelectronic music scene as well,
you know, went to my first rave,had my life changed, discovered
that world.
And uh, and then also I alwayshad a passion for personal
development too.

(10:27):
I was sitting there listening toTony Robbins CDs and like diving
into self-help books all thetime.
And it was like, wait a minute,these are the two things I love.
And, you know, very naturallyjust found a way to kind of
bring them all together.
So, uh, I, I love that.
I think, and I think that rightthere I think is so cool.
And just for, you know.
Artists to think about as wellwhen it comes to like, even like

(10:47):
building your brand, it's like,what's the stuff that you're
into, what's the stuff thatyou're passionate about?
Bring that into your world.
You know, like bring, like, ohcool, you're into skateboarding.
Like, great, bring theskateboarding into your brand.
Talk about it.
You know, I think just theability to combine passions.
Um, you know, for me, even justgetting into the music business
in general, it was like, I lovedmusic and then I went to college

(11:08):
and I had a business degree andI was like, oh, wait a minute.
What if I combine those thingsand I worked in the music
business, you know, there's somuch opportunity out there when
we, just think like, there'sthis cool, almost like middle of
the Venn diagram where, where doall your passions kind of
coexist and live, you know?
So I love that.

Dr. Sunni (11:25):
I I completely agree.
It's so funny, I have had thisexact conversation with three
different DJs this week already.
Right?
About how do you build yourbrand in an authentic way while,
you know, bringing in thingsthat you care about.
Because I know when I connectwith people, I wanna know what
they care about.
And that's, you know, whenpeople are connecting with a dj,
yes, they wanna like the music.

(11:47):
But there's something more thatkeeps them there, right?
Like, how do you bring in thethings you care about?
How do you also for yourselfhave other things that you care
about?
And then how does that help youbuild who you are and you know
what your brand is actually

Nik (12:01):
yeah.
So I'm very curious about whatdo you think are some of the
biggest mental challenges?
What are some of the biggest,like personal blocks and mindset
challenges that you see DJsstruggle with?
You know, obviously there's alot of the business challenges
and they're all connected.

(12:22):
Um, but you know, everyone'strying to figure out, how do I
build a brand?
How do I, you know, just buildsocial media?
And there's the business side ofit, but more on like the
personal side of it.
What do you see artists reallystruggle with?

Dr. Sunni (12:32):
right.
Well, you know, I think youbring up a great question
because all of the personal,like mental roadblocks, they
impact the business, right?
For sure.
So, I mean, I just think the,the hustle piece, right?
That feeling like you can't takea break, that you can't stop,
you'll be irrelevant.
Um, you need to keep going.
You need to grind 24 7.

(12:53):
I think that can get in the waya lot.
I mean, that's one big one.
I think this constantcomparison, sometimes it's
comparison of yourself as anartist to others, but sometimes
it's comparing yourself toyourself, right?
And like feeling like this nexttrack has to get the same
numbers and streams.

(13:14):
Um, and you know, that constantchase of trying to keep up.
And then of course, theself-doubt, imposter syndrome,
fear, those things I think theyget in the way and cause us to
start doing things that take usaway from the goals.

Nik (13:30):
Yeah.
So how do you help somebodybalance or work through this
constant grind?
Because there's also somethingto be said for it is a grind.
Like you do have to really workyour ass off, you know, like,
and so there's, there's like areality to that.
But also it can at some pointbecome almost like

(13:51):
self-destructive, right?
Like, burnout is very, very realand you're not gonna get very
far.
So how do you help somebodythat, uh, is struggling with
that?

Dr. Sunni (14:00):
Yeah, I think that's, you know, it's, it is a
struggle, right?
Because you do have to bededicated, you do have to be
consistent.
And like we were talking aboutin the beginning, you have to do
it all.
And then after that, when you'redoing not doing it all, you have
to manage the people doing itall and then still do everything
else you're doing.
So there is a lot, and you dohave to be on a lot.

(14:21):
But when I'm working withartists.
I think it, what's reallyimportant is staying connected
to values and purpose.
And then, when I work withpeople, and I talk about this a
lot in my book, I use aframework from a form of CBT,
which is cognitive behaviortherapy called act, um, which I

(14:42):
won't get too much into here,but really what that does is a
few things.
One helps you stay connected toyour purpose and values because
once you lose that, bad thingsare happening.
You know, self-destructivethings can be happening, things
that are not moving you towardyour business goals are
happening.
So like it's important to keepthose top of mind and stay

(15:05):
connected to those and assessand reassess your values and
purpose, which sometimes canchange or become more important,
less important, but also becomemore aware of those thoughts
that are getting in your way.
What are the thoughts that haveyou.
Doom scrolling or you know,avoiding doing tasks you need to

(15:25):
do.
Recognizing those unhelpfulthoughts, and feelings
associated with those.
And then from there, reallydeveloping techniques to, of
mindfulness to like allow thatstuff to be there while still
staying focused on the purpose,your values, and then moving in
that direction, like takingsteps toward that, with an

(15:46):
actual plan.
Um, but I think the key is likeunderstanding those thoughts are
gonna be there.
Like we have comparing thoughts,we have judgmental thoughts, we
hard on ourselves, we feel likewe can't do things.
All those thoughts can be there.
They probably will be there, butthey don't have to like, take
you away from moving towardsyour goal.

Nik (16:08):
Mm.
So what specific techniques cansomeone use to be aware of those
thoughts but not let them getthe best of them?
How do we actually really workthrough that?

Dr. Sunni (16:21):
Well, I think for different people, different
things work, but I thinkvisualization can be helpful.
A lot of clients find ithelpful.
I also find it helpful, toreally separate from those
thoughts by using avisualization.
One that I like is you aredriving, you're driving the
subway or the conductor and thethoughts.

(16:43):
All of these thoughts.
'cause sometimes they're comingso fast, right?
All these negative thoughts andself-defeating thoughts.
Um, they're passengers.
It may be rush hour, they're allgetting on and at some stops,
certain people get off.
Those thoughts get off.
Sometimes they linger.
But at the end of that shift.
They're all leaving.

(17:03):
Right?
You're done.
They're gone.
But I think that sort ofseparation, that visualization
of you are driving the subway,those thoughts are in the back.
Um, you know, sometimes there'smore, sometimes there's less,
but you're still driving.
Um, so that sort of helps to,you know, a, be more aware of
them and b, not allow them tosort of take over.

Nik (17:24):
Yeah.
I love that.
You know, I came up withsomething similar myself at one
point where, you know, every nowand then you just get
overwhelmed with just negativefeelings.
It's just the funk, I call itthe quicksand.
It's like you just wake up andyou're in a shitty mood for no
reason.
And you know, it is like thisenergy kind of makes its way
into, you know, not just yourthoughts, but your emotions and

(17:46):
your body, and you can feel thatheaviness.
And I remember one time I waslike, you know what?
Let me just.
Invite this in.
And it was like, I imagine, I'mlike, all right, dude, you got,
you wanna fucking say something?
You're, you're, you're showingup on my doorstep.
I'm gonna just open up the door.
I'm gonna invite you in, andwe're gonna sit down and we're
gonna have a cup of tea.
I'm gonna just be with you.
Right?
You want to complain about someshit?

(18:07):
You got some, you got, you got afeeling.
You need me to feel like, okay.
But I,'cause I noticed usuallywhere we're trying to make it go
away, I don't want to think thisthing, I don't wanna feel this
thing.
So let me, you know, forcemyself out of it rather than,
okay, let me just be with it.
Let me just accept it.
Right.
I like, okay, cool.
All right.
Do I need to just feel upset fora minute?
Do I need a wine for a minute?

(18:28):
I don't know what's there.
What, what do you want me tohear?
What do you want me to learn?
So I just imagine like, likejust having a, okay, come on in,
have a cup of tea.
Say your piece and then you canleave.

Dr. Sunni (18:38):
Exactly.
100%.
I think it's like you have to beable to accept, right?
Any of these thoughts that comeand any of these associated
feelings.
Right?
And I think that is a goodstrategy of allowing yourself to
feel it.
It's super helpful becauseagain, we can't get rid of it.
If we try to get rid of it, itgets worse.

Nik (18:57):
Yeah.
What's that?
What's that saying?
What you resist persists,

Dr. Sunni (19:00):
That's it.

Nik (19:01):
Yeah.
so we're talking about this issuch a real thing, the constant
grind, the constant struggle.
You know, on the one hand youhave declared and decided that
like, I'm going to, be anentrepreneur.
I'm going to really go for itand chase my dreams and

(19:21):
establish myself as an artistand build a career doing this.
And so., That does come with anextra level of just uncertainty
and stress and pressure and,just hours that need to be put
in.
Right?
Again, it's not a nine to five.
There's not like a, there's notlike an employee handbook that

(19:42):
you get that, you know, like hasit all laid out perfectly for
you.
So, with that does come thatfeeling of the constant grind,
the constant pressure, I thinkanyone that's listening right
now totally gets it right.
Um, and you mentioned somethingthat I think is really great
about getting reconnected toyour purpose, right?

(20:03):
Really getting reconnected toyour values and to your purpose
because I think that so manyartists that I see right now
are.
Often losing sight of thatbecause it feels like so much of
the game now is about how do Ibuild my audience, I gotta get
on social media.
It's becoming so much more aboutcreating content than it is
about creating music.

(20:23):
Right?
I think for a lot of people, Igot into this because I love
music and I'm passionate aboutthe art.
And then at some point when youreally start getting serious
about the music business andbuilding that business, then you
have to be good at marketing.
And so that means that mostlikely, you know, one of your
best marketing tools is going tobe on social media.

(20:44):
Now a lot of artists arespending more time on social
media than they are actuallycreating music.
And that seems to have created abig gap between their actual
purpose and their and the valuesthat they have.
Right?
So what do you have to sayaround that?
How do you help people likereally close that gap and
actually get reconnected totheir purpose and why they

(21:04):
started this whole thing in thefirst place?

Dr. Sunni (21:07):
Yeah, I think that's a really good question.
Something that comes up all thetime.
I'm sure you help artists withthis too.
Um, that gap of feeling like,you know, now it's the social
media grind.
I have to do this, I have to dothat.
And people don't wanna do it,right?
Like, I, I was one of thosepeople actually with my own
business.
I'm like, I don't wanna putmyself out there on social

(21:28):
media.
Like, no, this is not what I do.
I do this, I help people in thisway.
I don't wanna do a video ofmyself.
Right.
Um, but I think for me, and youknow, also for my clients, it's
about how do you connect yourpurpose to what you're doing on
social media?
Right.
Like, if you are feeling likeyou have to do this cringey post

(21:52):
about something you don't careabout, one, you're not gonna do
it.
Probably two, if you do it,you're gonna feel badly about
it.
So to those people, I say like,you should never do that.
Like, if you, if this is not inline with who you are and what
you're trying to do, don't doit.

Nik (22:10):
Yeah.
It's draining.

Dr. Sunni (22:11):
What we, exactly what we talked about earlier, like
bringing in other things youcare about, showing people what
you care about.
That's easier, right?
Because these are things youactually care about.
Doing a post about, likesomebody once asked me if they
should do a post about, theysaid, a lot of their fans like,
were vegan and, you know, shouldthey be doing like, posts that

(22:33):
relate to that?
And I'm like, are you vegan?
They were like, no.
I'm okay.
So like never, like you willnever have a vegan post, please.
It's like, this has to bealigned with who you are.
And really like thinking aboutlike, the purpose of social
media is to bring people to yourmusic and to you,

Nik (22:52):
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Sunni (22:53):
right?
Like you've really gotta keepthat in mind every time you're
out there posting, when you'reresponding.
Like, you know, a lot of timesyou are there to, you're there
to connect with people, right?
So how are you connecting?
How are you showing up?
Like, how do you show up foryourself and then, you know, how
do you show up for social media?
I think that mindset shift isreally big.

(23:13):
It really helped me get overlike, oh, I don't wanna do a
post about this or that.
Where it's like, what is, whatis the value you are bringing to
your audience?
Like for me, that changes it.

Nik (23:25):
Yeah.
I think I've been leaning alittle bit.
I don't know if I've just beenbecoming more of a hardass these
days, but I'm more leaning into,I'm finding myself lately just
being like.
Shut the fuck up and get overit.
Like if you wanna build yourbusiness, you're gonna have to
do things that aren'tcomfortable.
Right?
It's almost like, oh, I wannajust do the fun stuff and just

(23:49):
be super successful and like,make a bunch of money and get to
live my dream.
Well, you know, I don't know ifit really works that way
anymore.
There used to be a time wheremaybe you just get lucky and you
post a song and it goes viraland everything comes to you.
Cool.
But, you know, realistically,it's 2025.
Like, it's the differentlandscape now and it's kind of

(24:10):
like.
How badly do you want it?
Like, are you willing to learnnew skills?
Are you learning to do thingsthat aren't comfortable?
Are you willing to like, roll upyour sleeves?
You know, it's, I think a lot ofpeople are like, oh, I want this
dream, but they're not willingto really do the work.
And right now, like part of thework, it realistically it is
that you gotta get out there andmarket yourself and, and you

(24:32):
know, like I would love to justcoach people all day.
I would love to be like, oh myGod, there's just a line of
clients at my door and I don'thave to do anything except the
part of this that I love.
But you know what, I gotta gomake fucking clips from a
podcast and like, put captionson it and, and you know what I
mean?
And send it out and, you know,or I also need to like hire a
team to do that as well and, andstart like really building it.

(24:54):
But, I think for my, I thinkit's because for myself, I
realized that as well, I somehowgot lucky and was able to coach
for years without reallymarketing.
But I'm like, no, if you want tohave a career, I don't care what
business you're in, you know,we're, we're gonna have to, you
know, do, do some marketing andthat might not be the fun part,
but it's kind of like, I thinkthe artists that are willing to
do the part that isn't fun, thatare the ones that are gonna

(25:16):
actually be able to build acareer for themselves, you know?

Dr. Sunni (25:19):
Definitely, one thing that really resonated with me
that you said was like, you haveto get out of your comfort zone.
And I completely agree withthat, right?
A lot of people don't, andartists or people in general
don't really wanna show stuff onsocial media.
But you have to sort of get overthat.
Like you said, marketing andsocial media is such a big

(25:40):
component.
It's a necessary component forsuccess.
I mean, you can't ignore it.
You have to do it.
You have to figure out how to doit.
And I think for some people,like you said, you've been
telling yourself or sayinglately, like, shut the fuck up
and just do it.
Like, I think for some peoplethat works like that, that say,
that phrase may work, but forother people, I think it helps

(26:01):
to say, okay, you have to dothis in order to be successful.
How are you gonna do it in a waythat matters?
Right?
And you gotta push yourself outof your comfort zone if it's in
line with your values and yourpurpose, right?
Like your goals of success.

Nik (26:15):
yeah.
And I, I think that's reallywhere the gap is, is I think a
lot of people are probably justlike showing up and like, oh, I
guess I need to like.
Dance to my song, you know, Iguess I need to like, you know,
do this trend or whatever.
And that's the part that's like,oh my God, this is so
inauthentic and this is socringey.
And it's like, yeah, if we'retrying to do it in a way that

(26:36):
isn't aligned with our valuesand it, and it's not connected
to like our purpose and it's,and it's inauthentic, then yeah,
that's always gonna really suck.
And so I think that really isthe piece of like, okay, let's
let you know, the softerapproach is like, look, this,
this is just, we gotta facethis.
This is something we gotta do.
Um, and yeah, how can we do itin a way that feels good and,

(26:57):
and explore that and, and playwith that.
But yeah, it's a, it's a big onefor sure.
You also mentioned comparison.
That's a big one as well.
I think a lot of people arelooking at what other people are
doing.
And I see this as well withbigger artists where, okay, now
you're touring and you're on thelineup, you're on the billing.
And even artists that are, thatare big, they're comparing

(27:19):
themselves to the.
Other artists that's gettingbilled above them.
You know, once you get an agent,this is what booking agents are
fighting for all the time, whosename is bigger on the flyer.
And, you know, part of myFrench, it's a little bit of
like a dick measuring contest,you know, like, okay, I got
billed more.
And, and, you know, also nowgetting paid more.
So that's a hard thing toliterally be sized up.

(27:40):
Like the industry is literallysizing you up with other
artists.
Um, but also of course as you'recoming up, you know, you're
looking at like, oh this personis popping off or they're doing
well and it's just so naturalfor us to compare.
So how do you help somebody workthrough comparison and, you
know, you mentioned impostersyndrome as well.
Like that's another very commonthing.

(28:01):
How do you, how do you helpsomeone work through that stuff?

Dr. Sunni (28:03):
Yeah.
Well, I think, you know, again,those are so common and I think
even when your name is in thebigger letters Right on that
bill, it's still happening,right?
Like again, it's like goes backto like, these thoughts are
gonna be there.
You're gonna have thesethoughts.
Right.
But you can either let them stopyou, right, and take you away
from what's important.

(28:24):
Or you can focus more on, thepositive piece, right?
Like, focus on comparingyourself to yourself, your own
growth, right?
Other people are doing whatthey're doing.
And you know what, that's fineif you're, if you're into what
they're doing, take inspirationfrom them.
Also, you know, like I think weget into this thing where social
media shows people that looklike they're an overnight

(28:45):
success, right?
Like, it's never an overnightsuccess.
Social media is like 99% of thetime showing you only the good
stuff.
Um, so like, that's not real.
Like, it's not a faircomparison.
You need to be tracking your ownprogress, measuring your own
growth, and keeping a record ofthat.

(29:06):
That's where you need to befocused.
Like, again, those thoughts aregonna come.
Of course, you're gonna compareyourself to.
Other things you see, otherpeople you see and what other
people are doing, and that'sokay.
It's like a normal thing foryour brain to do, but you know
it becomes a problem when itstarts keeping you from moving
towards your own goal.

Nik (29:27):
Yeah, yeah, totally.
And you know, you, it's funny,it's like it's so interesting
because there is a natural partof our brain, I call it the ego.
I don't know what we technicallycall it.
Maybe in the world of, you know,psychology.
I call it just the ego.
Your ego is always judging andanalyzing and it's looking out

(29:48):
for danger.
It's trying to protect itself.
And you know, there's just thispart of our brain that's wired
to be, yeah.
Looking at others and judgingthem and judging ourselves.
Uh, and so.
It's just, yeah.
One, I think just to kind ofnormalize it and, and, and I
think also it's like catchingyourself in that moment when you

(30:08):
do and you, you know, you fallinto the comparison.
There's like a moment where youcan choose which direction you
want to go.
Right.
It's like even when I see Dr.
Sonny, there's another artistmindset coach out there, like my
lower sort of ego self could belike, oh my God, there's like
competition out there now.

(30:30):
Right.
And, and see it that way asopposed to seeing it like.
Whoa, how cool that there'ssomebody else out there for me
to connect with.
You know, that now we can becomefriends, we can collaborate.
Like this is, this can be agreat thing.
Right.
So when you're looking at often,I mean, you're, you're comparing
yourself to your peers, right?
And so do you see your peers ascompetition or do you see your

(30:51):
peers as people that you cancollaborate and build with?
You know, we're creating apodcast now.
We're creating content together.
We're inspiring people now withour words.
But that was a decision that,you know, there's a fork in the
road of, oh, is this persongoing to be, competition?
Is this person gonna be acollaborator?
So there's just like a little,there's like a moment there
where you can catch yourself.
And for me, what I,'cause thisis so, so, so common, but for

(31:14):
me, what I have my clients do isI have them celebrate.
Everybody, like I have themcelebrate, especially the people
maybe they don't wanna celebrateof like, oh, that person got a
bigger billing than you.
Or that person got that gig thatyou wanted.
When you fall into what I wouldjust call like the low
vibrational frequency of likejealousy and resentment, well
now you're the one operatingfrom jealousy and resentment,

(31:37):
and you are not gonna create anykind of good results from that
energy, right?
So it's like paying attention toyour energy.
First off, your, your, yourmindset comes first of what are
you choosing to believe?
Which fork in the road are youchoosing to, you know, to look
at and to go down.
And then that's going to, um,that's going to influence the
kind of energy that you feel youwe're really good at making

(31:58):
ourselves feel like shit.
And a lot of that's'cause ofjust the perspective and the
mindset that we have aroundthings.
So when you see somebody that,uh, maybe yeah, you notice
yourself, your ego flare up, younotice yourself, compare
yourself to like.
Cool.
Celebrate that person, choose tocelebrate that person.
It literally can be a choice.
And it's easier said than done,maybe, but there's that

(32:18):
automatic reaction that you haveto start to override of like,
hell yeah, cool.
That person is winning.
That means that I can win too.
That means that I believe inabundance.
That means that's opportunityout there.
And then how do you actuallyfeel energetically, when I'm
celebrating somebody, I feelgood.
I'm living in the energy ofcelebration.
Now I'm operating from thatenergy and I'm creating way

(32:39):
different results for myself.
So I've seen some, likemiraculous shit happen with my
clients where I've put them onthis like, celebration, uh,
protocol.
You know, it really can changethe game.

Dr. Sunni (32:50):
Celebration is important.
Like you said, if you're lookingat people as competition, it's
hurting you.
Like before you've even doneanything or not done anything.
Like that's really harmful.
It's not helping you grow,right?
Like, but if you are celebratingpeople, and I always encourage
artists to celebrate otherartists, support other artists

(33:11):
too.
Um, I'm always out theresupporting artists at every
level.
You can find me at showseverywhere all the time because
that's something that's reallyimportant to me, right?
Like, I wanna discover new musicand new artists and see what
people are doing.
But it's also so important to beout there cheering people on.
And you know what?
There are things to learn frompeople that are doing cool

(33:32):
things.
There's so much that can belearned.
And having that mindset can helpyou grow.
You know?
And like you said, it leads toso many unexpected things.
Like positive, all positivethings, right?
Like when you move away fromthat competition mindset,
because I think that also getsin the way of artists networking
and building relationships, andeven doing collabs.

(33:55):
Right.
Like that mindset will just keepyou in a box and also keep you
lonely.

Nik (34:00):
Yeah.

Dr. Sunni (34:01):
Um, so like really being able to, celebrate others
and be there to support them andsay, Hey, I love what this
person's doing, what can I learnfrom them?
Like that open mindset, is thepath that's going to lead you in
the direction you wanna begoing.

Nik (34:18):
Yeah, totally.
I saw you make a post aboutwriting down your wins, which I
thought was really cool.
'cause I was like, okay, this,for me, again, I always tell my
clients like, celebration is apillar of my process.
I'm just like, we're celebratingeach other.
I'm having them celebratethemselves.
I'm having them celebrate otherpeople.
Uh, it's like, whatever youfocus on is going to grow.

(34:39):
Right.
So I loved seeing that you had,uh, you were suggesting people
basically to write down theirwins every day.
Tell me a little bit about that,that exercise and, and how that
plays a role in your process.

Dr. Sunni (34:49):
Sure.
So I think that is such a gamechanger.
So it comes from positivepsychology.
The research for Martin Seligmanwhere he really developed this
exercise and researched it.
And what he did was for twoweeks he had people do, was
record, write down three thingsthat went well every day.
Didn't matter what they were,how big, how small.

(35:13):
He would say, force yourself tothink about your day at the end
of every day and write downthree things that went well
because again, our minds, likeyou were saying, are wired for
the threat.
They're wired for the negative.
But doing this exercise for justtwo weeks every day changed
people's mindset.

(35:34):
It changed their brain.
Whereas then now they were goingthrough the day looking for the
positive.
Noticing the positive thingswhen they happened and then
having an easier time of writingthem down.
And not only that, at the end ofthis two weeks, looking back,
you had a list of all of thesepositive things.
Because normally somethinghappens, you know, something

(35:56):
positive happens.
Um, we have a great laugh with afriend.
Um, you know, we did something,a fun activity, whatever it is,
and then it's gone.

Nik (36:06):
Yeah.

Dr. Sunni (36:07):
like having this in writing, like it makes it
concrete and it sort of retrainsand starts to rewire your brain
for the positive.
So it's really a game changer.

Nik (36:18):
Yeah.
I love that.
I really love that you bring upthis part around rewiring your
brain, right?
This is a big thing that I.
Frame with my clients as well.
In the same way that you wouldwant to go to the gym and train
your body.
Like, the only way I can bestrong is I gotta go and I gotta

(36:40):
like lift weights and I gottaput in reps.
I gotta, I gotta exercise.
I need to condition my body tobe strong and to be healthy.
And your brain is the same way.
It's like my body is naturallygoing to deteriorate.
My body is like not naturallystrong.
Right?
If we're not using it, if we'renot training it, I'm like
naturally just going to getreally fat and outta shape.

(37:01):
Right.
That's where, that's where likethe gravitational pull of life
is going to take me.
So in the same way that we'regonna train our body in the gym,
we gotta be training our mindin, in the gym as well.
Right?
And so I have, you know,exercises that I put my clients
on where it's like, look, we.
We gotta rewire the way that wethink because we're very

(37:22):
naturally conditioned to bewired for fear, to be wired, for
comparison, to be wired forworst case scenarios.
Right.
And, I love what you bring up islike with even just in two weeks
doing some of these kind ofbasic exercises, like, yeah,
let's start to focusintentionally and again, it's
like I'm not naturally gonna gothere.
I have to take control andintentionally start to rewire

(37:45):
the brain to start to focus onthe wind, to start to focus on
what I'm proud of, to start tofocus on what's possible and
doing that every day by writingit down and training yourself.
What is cool is that like, waita minute.
I'm kind of going there, thatbecomes more of my default
state, whereas maybe my defaultstate before was to always get

(38:05):
upset or to be, falling into thefear, falling into a victim
mindset.
It's all reprogrammable, but yougotta put in the work, you gotta
put in the reps, right?
Well, I'm not gonna get itwithout showing up and going to
the gym.
So going to that, to the gym ofthe mind and, and really
exercising it.
But it's really cool to see.
It's like, I, naturally go togratitude.
Like my default state is thateverything's gonna work out and

(38:28):
I'm super blessed, you know, Ifall out of that sometimes, but
it's not a hard place for me toget back to.
'cause I'm like, I trained thatshit.
Like I've trained my mind overyears and, and not just my mind,
but like my emotional state, mynervous system as well.
Uh, so yeah, I really love thejust the, the rewiring aspect of
it.
What are some other exercisesthat you have your clients do?

(38:50):
I'd be very curious.

Dr. Sunni (38:52):
Um, well, you know, I think it really varies.
I go into like a variety ofexercises in my book, to like,
help you again with thismindfulness piece, right?
Because I think for mindfulness,you know, we don't have to call
it that because I think thatword even starts to get a
negative connotation for people.
People are like, oh,mindfulness, I don't wanna do

(39:12):
that.
Um, or I can't do that, right?
Because a lot of people try itand it doesn't work.
But I think really again, likebeing more aware of.
What you're doing, right?
Like the mindfulness aspects ofwhat you're doing.
I don't think everybody shouldmeditate, right?
It's not for everyone.
You know, some people reallylove it.
They get into it.

(39:33):
Some people just can't do it andthey never will do it and that's
fine.
But you know what, you can stilldo activities that are mindful.
Like you can mindfully brushyour teeth, right?
Like you can, you brush yourteeth every day, twice a day.
And you can pay attention to allof the senses when you're doing

(39:54):
it.
'cause a lot of times you'rebrushing your teeth and your
mind's out here, right?
Like thinking of what you haveto do during the day.
Or maybe that post, you don'twant to do that video editing,
you're avoiding whatever it is.
Like our mind's in a millionplaces'cause we're doing a
routine activity.
But if you're actually focusingin on.
What does the toothpaste looklike?

(40:14):
How does it smell?
What does it taste like?
How does a toothbrush feel onyour teeth?
Like, you're, you're engagingall of the senses so your mind's
not two hours down the road orin last week, right?
Like, it brings you to here andnow.
And exercises like that aresuper important.
Um, also learning new things,right?

(40:36):
I think it's really importantfor artists to have things
outside of music, even ifthey're not necessarily passions
to try new things, right?
Like when we're learningsomething new.
Like it or not, you're mindful,right?
Like you have to be fullyengaged in learning that new
thing because you've never doneit before.
So like, I think things likethat, again, helping bring our

(40:56):
brain to the here and now,right?
Because so many times we'reahead or we're in the past, or
we're somewhere that's not here.
So I think that's a big pieceand these types of exercises can
really help.

Nik (41:10):
Yeah.
So I hear that mindfulness isreally a big piece, as you said,
it's, it's obviously veryimportant.
Why is mindfulness so importantfor artists specifically?

Dr. Sunni (41:21):
Well, I think it helps with a lot of things,
right?
It helps with performance, ithelps with creativity for sure.
But it also, like mindfulnesshelps you with awareness, right?
And I know we like, are on thesame page about the importance
of self-awareness.
I need to be aware of me, how mythoughts and feelings or

(41:42):
impacting my behavior, right?
Because if I'm not aware, Icould be, again, if, let's just
say I have anxiety before ashow.
If I'm not aware of what mypurpose is, what are my goals
here, right?
Like I can do something that'sgonna get in my way to try to
manage that.
I think it's really important tobe more in the here and now,

(42:02):
right?
Like that's super importantduring performance.

Nik (42:05):
Yeah.
It makes me think about what wewere talking about earlier with
just the feeling, the need toconstantly be just grinding and
moving.
Uh, I think a lot of people feellike you're just on a hamster
wheel, right?
All right, I'm gonna just likegrind and go, go, go, go, go.
And it's kinda like, yeah, we'reall just on this hamster wheel,
but mindfulness gets you off ofit.

(42:27):
It's like, okay, no, I'm, myfeet are firmly planted on the
ground, and I'm solid and I knowwhy I am here.
I know who I am, I know what mypurpose is.
And, and I can do everything abit more intentionally from that
grounded, mindful place thanwhen I'm just like, okay, we're
just going and we're just makingmusic, and we're making content,
and we gotta make this thinghappen.
You know?

(42:47):
Because I'm about to turn 30 andOh my God, I'm getting old.
I need to do, it's like that,that's the, that's the mind
right there.
Like, it's, it's almost like oneof those, uh, one of those like,
auctioneers, you know, and we'regoing like, that's our, that's
our brain, right?
And so, okay, let's get off thehamster wheel.
Be mindful, start practicing,but like training the mind to be
mindful.
Right.
And I think, yeah, when

Dr. Sunni (43:08):
Right.
And like getting those breaks,that gives you a break, right?
If you're constantly on thehamster wheel of 10,000 thoughts
per minute, um, you know, it'sexhausting.
And again, you know, you're atrisk for burnout.
So like the whole idea is thatmindfulness gives you a break
from all that.
And we, we need it

Nik (43:27):
yeah, yeah.
Because I, you know, whetheryou're an artist or a coach, an
entrepreneur, part of that isthat there's always going to be
a million things to do.
There's no end, you know, towhat can be done.
There's always going to be more.
And so you can run as fast asyou want on the hamster wheel,

(43:48):
but it's like you're not gonnaget it.
There's no destination.
Right.
You can be flying, but there's,yeah, there's nowhere to, to
reach.
So we have to be really like,aware of that.
Right.

Dr. Sunni (43:59):
I agree with what you're saying.
Like I think if you're notmindful and not in the here and
now, you're just in that go, go,go.
That's where people like losethemselves, right?
That's where the burnouthappens, right?
Like, you're not here, you'renot enjoying anything, right?
You're just going and you'rejust doing, and you feel like
it's never done.
And you know, I think so that'swhy it is, it's like important

(44:22):
for you all around, right?
Like professionally, personally,to be able to stop and slow
down.
I mean, think about, you know,how many artists don't, don't
even take breaks.

Nik (44:33):
yeah.
Yeah.
Well, I like what you said aboutnot even enjoying any of it.
Right.
And that's because we have putour enjoyment off into some
distant place in the future oflike, I'll enjoy this once I get
that show, or I'll start toenjoy this once I am doing it
full time.
I'll start to enjoy it once I'mat some future place.

(44:54):
And.
I can't tell you how manyartists I've met that have all
of the goals that you mightwant, that someone else might
want, and they're still notenjoying it'cause they haven't
gotten off the hamster wheel Tolike actually be present and
recognize that there is nodestination.
Right?
The journey is the destination.
This is it.
If you don't learn how to enjoythe journey now, you're probably

(45:17):
not gonna learn, you're probablynot gonna be enjoying it later.
There's a lot of really big,miserable artists, right, that
still are chasing the nextthing.
And so, but, but, and, and notjust artists.
All of us, you know, we see itall the time.
There's so many people, it'slike, cool, you have all the
things right, but, but you'restill, you're not happy and
you're not enjoying any of it.
It's like enjoying the journeyis a, it's like a skill that we

(45:39):
have to learn and, and Ihonestly think it's getting
harder and harder to do,especially when we are.
Living in the world of socialmedia, it's like part of our
business is to be on the phone alot and to be, you know, using,
you know, developing the fanbase, developing the audience,
making the content.
And so we are predisposed to beon the phone a lot more, which

(46:03):
really further perpetuates that,okay, there's this, yeah,
there's this next step that Ineed to get to.
As, you know, the, the lack ofmindfulness of like, wait a
minute, like, life is happeninghere right now.
It's not happening on the phone,it's not happening.
It's in some future place orsome future achievement.
Right?
So I think it's a, yeah, I'm,I'm, thank you for sharing that.

(46:24):
'cause I'm really seeing, I'mlike, oh yeah, mindfulness is
like, so, so important.

Dr. Sunni (46:29):
Yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, I agree.
Social media makes it harderthan ever.
I mean, you're not mindful ifyou're doing a post, if you're
scrolling, if you're engaging,whatever you're doing, you're
like glued to that phone oreven, you know how artists are
like checking their streams orchecking where they are on the
charts.
You're, you're constantly awayfrom where you are now and

(46:49):
enjoying the now and like, youknow, again, celebrating those
wins, celebrating your progress,and enjoying enjoying what
you're doing.
And again, that ties into thepurpose.
You've gotta still be connectedto the why of why you started
doing this in the first place.
'cause if you lose that, thenwhat are you really doing?

Nik (47:07):
Yeah.
Let's go a little bit deeper ifyou're open to it.
Uh,'cause I think if we reallypeel back the layers for not all
artists, but for some artists,and again, not just artists as
well.
I mean, I work with just a lotof men.
I do a lot of like men'scoaching and in men's groups as
well.
And it's like for a lot of us,we are trying to.

(47:28):
Get to this certain level ofachievement so that we can prove
ourselves in some way.
That like, well, once I become asuccessful artist, that will
mean I'm enough.
That will mean I am worthy.
That will mean I'm special if Ican get to this certain place.
And on a deep level, it's likethat will mean I, I can be

(47:49):
loved.
Right?
Loved and adored, uh, respected.
Right?
Like what's the, like the actualdeeper thing that a lot of
people are chasing, usuallyunconsciously.
But we think that, okay, if Ican achieve this goal of being,
you know, this headlining worldtouring artist.

(48:11):
Right.
Um, a lot of times if weactually really peel back the
layers, it's like there's somesort of like validation I think,
that people are chasing, whichit's like, that's kind of like a
hole in ourselves that we haveto work on filling, you know?
'cause again, we've seencountless celebrities that are,
you know, multimillionairecelebrities and famous and then

(48:34):
they kill themselves, right?
It's like there's still a holethere, there's still a void
there that the success and theachievement will never
accomplish.
So I think to, like, I.
Really get clear and really justseek that out, you know?
And I have to also, like, whatpart of myself still feels that
once I make more money or I buya house or I can, you know,
provide for my family in acertain way or have a certain

(48:55):
lifestyle, like, then I'll beenough as a man.
Right.
That's even just very deeplyrooted in, in, in men as well.
We're very socially programmedto base our worth off of how
much, how successful we can beor how much we can provide, you
know?
So just to go like one layerdeeper, I think it's a great
space to look at within all ofus of like, where are we?

(49:16):
Where do we feel that like oursuccess and accomplishments will
fill some sort of void inside ofus.

Dr. Sunni (49:23):
Right.
Right.
And I think with a lot of thosethoughts, like you said, like if
I achieve this, I think, likeyou said, we have to go deeper
than that.
Like if I achieve this thanthat, um, you really have to go
deeper than that.
Like why, what is that gettingat for you?
Like you said, sometimes it'slike in the end, even though a
person may not realize it, it isthat they wanna be loved or be

(49:45):
accepted, and then from there,okay, well let's take a look at
that and how does that tie inwith your value?
Right, because that's probablydeeply rooted in a value, right?
The value is not to make amillion dollars, like what is
behind that?
Why?
And a lot of times, like yousaid, it may be like feeling

(50:06):
loved or accepted and thenlooking at, okay, so where are
you getting that?
This doesn't necessarily have tocome from this goal.
Where do you have that Now, likeyou said, in terms of the
gratitude, where do you havethat now?
How can you focus more in onthat?
More?
I think a lot of times artistswant to connect, right?
Like they're really looking forthat connection to be seen and

(50:27):
okay, if that is what it's aboutfor you, how are you connecting?
Like how are you engaging withyour audience?
How are you connecting withother artists doing the same
thing?
How are you working togetherwith them?
Like how are you filling that inother ways?
A lot of times, I think that's abig piece too.

Nik (50:44):
Yeah.
And a lot of it is like, how arewe looking to fill those needs
outside of ourself, right?
Like, I want to, I, I, I,there's this need for
connection, this need for beingseen, or maybe there's this need
for love, right?
Well, okay, how much are youloving yourself?
How much am I connecting withmyself?
Am I taking time to really bewith myself, to connect with

(51:05):
myself?
Am I taking time to see myself,right?
Because I can also give myselfthose things, right?
If I'm, you know, hoping to beworthy or validated, right?
It's like, okay, can I validatemyself?
Can I find that worthinesswithin myself?
Um, you know, I think thatthat's a, that's a lot of like
the real deep, like personalself-worth of knowing that,
like, or just self-work, youknow, of just knowing that like,

(51:27):
all right, whatever.
I'm.
You know, I'm oftentimes chasingthings outside of myself to, you
know, fill some void.
Right.
Or to get something.
And a lot of times it's like,oh, I can, I mean, a lot of it,
like, we do need to be loved byother people.
We do need to connect with otherpeople.
We can't, you know, unless youwanna be a monk and sit in a,
ASAM all day or whatever, andjust, you know, be, become
enlightened or something.
But there's, you know, we canalso still be loved by so many

(51:51):
people, but not actually loveourselves.
We can be seen by so manypeople, but not actually be seen
by ourselves or be connectedwith ourself, which is another
piece of it to really be awareof and work on.

Dr. Sunni (52:01):
Completely.
And I think that really ties inwith a values exercise that I
do, because I think a lot oftimes people are not necessarily
connected to their values on adaily basis in looking at how
they line up with the thingsthat you're doing.
And people will say to me allthe time, like, you know, well,
I don't know off the top of myhead what my values are.
Like, you know, do you have alist?

(52:23):
Right?
And yeah, there are lists ofvalues that you can Google, but
like, the better way to saylike, what are your values is
who and what is important toyou, right?
And so many times when clientsare giving me that list, when I
have artists giving me thatlist, or other, you know, CEOs
giving me that list, they willlist off what is important,
right?
They have a whole list of thingsthat who is important, right?

(52:46):
You know, maybe their family,their friends, their partner,
their children, or whatever.
And so many times.
People forget to include in thislist themselves.

Nik (52:55):
Mm.
Wow.
Yeah.
That's big.
That's so big.
Wow.
Mm.
Let that land for a minute.
Everybody put yourself on thelist,

Dr. Sunni (53:08):
Exactly.
Self-awareness, self-care, likewhat are you doing for yourself
on a daily basis?
Checking in with yourself,seeing how you're feeling.
Right.
You,

Nik (53:18):
Yeah,

Dr. Sunni (53:19):
of times we don't have time to do that.

Nik (53:21):
yeah, yeah.
And that's where.
You know, we're oftentimes, I, Ialways say like, you know, we're
trying to fill up our cup,right?
Uh, or, or maybe we're comingfrom an empty cup.
I'm hoping that if I get thesuccess or the achievement or
the love from somebody else orwhatever, then my cup will be
full and.
You're coming from an empty cupas opposed to, okay, let me fill

(53:44):
my own cup up first.
Let me do the self-care.
Let me, let me make sure thatlike, I'm good first, let me put
myself on the list first.
Let me prioritize myself andwhatever I need to do.
If I, you know, if I can comefrom a full cup, I'm
overflowing.
You know, especially when itcomes to like relationships, I'm
like, I'm not coming to arelationship'cause I need to
take something from you.

(54:05):
I'm coming to a relationship.
'cause I wanna, I, I havesomething to give.
I have something to offer.
Right.
And the same way, I think as a,yeah, even approaching your
entire artist career is like,oh, you're, you're here to give,
you're here to offer something.
Not to, not to take.
That will be a byproduct ofwhatever you show up and you
give.
Um, but just to be in that andyou can only give really, like

(54:25):
when you fill your own tank upfirst, you know, fill your own
cup up first.
Yeah.
So you've mentioned this book.
Tell me about the book, levelUp, your Influence.

Dr. Sunni (54:37):
Yes.
Yes.
That's what it's called.
So, the book is reallyinteresting how it came about
because I don't think I everconsidered myself as someone who
would write a book.
Um, in order to get mydoctorate, I did have to write a
dissertation, and that was likemore than enough writing for me
because I don't consider myselfto be a writer.
Um, however, like over theyears, I found that, you know,

(55:00):
people were inspired by mystory, sort of by my leadership
lessons that I've learned alongthe way with starting, also with
starting two differentbusinesses and the challenges
that came with that.
And as I was really building myconsulting practice and
networking with tons of people,there were several different
leaders that inspired me alongthe way.
Um, and I wanted to share withmore people, right, than just

(55:23):
the people that I network with.
Um, these stories, whether it'smy own story, stories of people
that have inspired me along withthe framework that I use for
working with people and helpingpeople stay aligned with their
values and purpose and, um, youknow, developing goals based on
those.
And then also figuring out howto become more aware and mindful

(55:46):
of the thoughts and feelingsthat get in the way and really
changing their relationship withthem.
So that's really what the bookis about.
And um, you know, so it's mystory and then it's leaders in
all of these differentindustries.
One who's a dj, and I, I do haveto shout him out here because
I'm so excited.
Um, number 20 on Billboard dancetoday.

(56:08):
GTO Feis.
So he is featured in the book.
Um, and, you know, these leadersare really sharing their stories
of things that they've struggledwith and as well as things that
have helped them overcome thechallenges or, get through these
hard pieces.
Um, so, the book was really likea labor of love.
Again, I'm not a writer.
Um, and currently now I'm likein the process of a book tour.

(56:31):
So that's been fun.
Um, doing lots of, doing severalcities and about to go
international and, I wanted todo something different that, you
know, a lot of people do booksignings, uh, you know, where
you sit there, you sign thebook, and then you maybe read
from the book or talk about thebook.
But I don't know, for me, that'sboring.
Um, so I've done a few of those,but what's been important for me

(56:53):
in the different cities that I'mgoing to is I'm making these
more of parties, right?
I'm bringing in different DJsfrom the cities where I'm having
the events, um, helping them,helping them get, you know,
promoting them and supportingthem.
And then also having it benetworking, right?
Because I think we all need morenetworking in this industry.

(57:14):
So these events are combinationsof, you know, DJs playing
industry, networking.
And then, yeah, I'll sign a bookif you want.
Happy to talk with you about thebook.
I, but I'm making them more funevents and, um, I'm actually
planning a different one for thenext one, which is even a little
bit more exciting.
It's gonna be a popup rave inMyorca book party.

(57:36):
So these like level up partiesare going around.
I was in DC two weeks ago.
Um, so this has been like anexciting journey.

Nik (57:44):
That is so, so awesome.
I love the fun twist that youare bringing to the, uh, the
book world.
It's, it's super cool and justcongratulations, congratulations
on writing a book.
You're the second guest I've hadrecently that's written a book
and both have, uh, very muchinspired me to follow in your
footsteps.
So there's some, uh, early ideasfor the headline or mindset book

(58:07):
starting to be downloaded fromthe universe.
So, uh, when that time comes,I'm gonna hit you up for some,
for some tips.
Uh, but congratulations on, onyeah.
Diving in and, and really doingthat.
I know that's a, that's a, it'slike an artist putting out an
album, you know, it's a lot ofwork to do and so
congratulations on that.
And yeah, thank you so much fortaking the time to hop on today.
Like what a really cool rabbithole to go down.

(58:31):
And I know we could have.
Gone on for a few more hours.
There's so many layers toeverything that we talked about
today, but, yeah, for everybodylistening, I hope that you guys
enjoyed this conversation.
Make sure to follow Dr.
Sonny.
Make sure to follow the podcast.
If you guys aren't subscribed,uh, please make sure that you've
subscribed as well as go andgive it a rating that really
helps to, expose it to morepeople.
So, uh, thank you all for thesupport.

(58:53):
And Sunny, thank you so much forjoining us on the Headline
Mindset podcast.

Dr. Sunni (58:57):
Thanks for having me, Nick.
It's been a great conversationand you're right, we could keep
going

Nik (59:02):
Yeah, we'll do round two at some point for sure.

Dr. Sunni (59:05):
Sounds good.
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