GOSHFATHER - Lessons Learned From Making 52 Songs In 52 Weeks

After having some early music industry success in an artist duo, Goshfather got stuck in his career and creative process. He was caught up in the party scene, avoiding the studio and almost decided to quit. But he decided to do something crazy instead:

Make and release 52 songs in 52 weeks.

He knew that committing to the creative process was the answer to all his problems and blocks. And in this episode we dive deep into the powerful, transformational and incredibly important lessons he learned along the way.

Follow Goshfather here:
https://www.instagram.com/goshfather
https://www.threads.net/@goshfather

And visit my site to join the mailing list, book a free coaching call or get in touch:
https://www.nikcherwink.com

Episode Transcript

Track 1 (00:00):
I'm here to tell you that if you say that you're an

(00:02):
artist, be making art.
Because otherwise you're gonnago insane.
Here's the thing, bad artistsare good artists.
Because the bad artist, will badshit for a long time and get
bored of sucking ass.
that's just how it is.
Make, fucking garbage, dude?
make garbage, all day becausethat's how you become your

(00:25):
heroes.
That's how you surpass yourheroes.

Nik (00:41):
What's up everybody.
Welcome to the headliner mindsetpodcast.
Today's guest is a true musicproduction machine.
He is fresh off of a challengewhere he put out a song a week
for an entire year, all 52 weeksof 2023.
He's also been putting out aconstant stream of content that
is both super inspiring andincredibly hilarious.

(01:02):
This is gosh, father.

Track 1 (01:04):
What an intro good lord.
Thank you so much, man.
I appreciate You nick for havingme on here Uh, dude, i've been
i've been following.
I mean, dude, I I see all theclips from your stuff all the
time incredibly insightfulincredibly, uh Getting artists
out of their shell and a lot ofthem a lot of us Are in our
shells at all times, especiallywhen it comes to public facing

(01:25):
anything.
So You're doing something reallyspecial with this man.
So thank it really means a lotto be on here with you

Nik (01:31):
man.
You know, same thing, I've beenwatching you from a distance,
seeing what you've been doing,and I was just like, yo, I gotta
get you on, because you aredoing something that is
Incredibly, I think important,incredibly challenging,
incredibly inspiring.
And, I'm excited to, to dig intothat with you, you know, and
really, let's just go ahead andjump right into the deep end

(01:54):
because you just put out a tracka week for an entire fucking
year.
That's insane.
That's incredible.
So tell me about like, whatinspired you to do this in the
first place?

Track 1 (02:05):
Okay, let's, let's take, let's take it on back.
I'm going to try to, I'm goingto try to elucidate here as, as
briefly as possible.
for those of you that don't knowme, I used to be in a, uh, duo
called Goshfather and Jinko.
We had a lot of success.
We made a lot of trap music, alot of bass music.
We, uh, we're kind of, we kindof really, now that I think
about it, we kind of came up inthe hype machine era.
So if you're Gen Z, I'm, I'mliterally speaking a rare

(02:27):
dialect of Cantonese because noone knows what, they probably
don't know what a hype machineis, but basically hype machine
was a blog that Basically, ifyou charted on there, you had a
career, and if you didn't charton there, you were like a
invisible ghost travelingthrough time.
So we had a couple of remixesthat blew up over there, then we
got, you know, we blew up, wewere a duo, it was like a trap
remix of Dido, Thank You.
You know, Tears Gone Cold, I'mWondering Why, we had a big,

(02:49):
then we started touring, shitstarted getting crazy, we got
signed to an agency.
Uh, and then we broke up, youknow, we had, we just had
differences, we, uh, I kind ofwanted to make one kind of
sound, my partner, Jinko, wantedto make a different kind of
sound.
so that was around 2015 andthen, you know, I lived in LA
and I was just like goingaround.
I had a really, you know, thatwas 2015.
That was almost, that was likenine years ago.
So, you know, I feel like I wasa different human being back
then.
I was still a child, honestly.

(03:10):
I kind of still am, but I reallywas a child back then.
And, uh, you know, I was livingin LA, going to parties, doing
things.
And I really kind of had thatmindset back in the day of like,
you know, I accomplished allthese things, and played with
all these people, and played EDCMexico, and did all this stuff,
and I guess now looking back inmy head, I kind of was like, I
still have clout, I still haveclout, and that kind of like

(03:31):
mindset kind of really held meback, and the point is that I
was living in LA up until 2020really, I got very lucky and I
moved back to San Franciscowhere I'm born and raised, shout
out San Francisco,

Nik (03:42):
Yeah, Bay Area,

Track 1 (03:43):
Yeah.
right before the pandemic.
Holy crap.
I got very lucky.
and point is that like, dude, Ihad from 2018 to 2020, 2017,
2020, I put out like six songs.
In five years.
Why did I put out six songs orfive, six songs, whatever, in
five years?
Was it because I was takingcreative rest and going at my

(04:07):
own pace and protecting mymental health?
No, dude, I was a fu I was abitch.
I was incredibly insecure.
I had an ego, the size of forwhat though, you know what I
mean?
I had, when people, when peoplesay ego, they think it's because
someone's arrogant.
When I say ego, I mean, thisthing that crushes you into
complete inaction, this internalthing that says I did this, this

(04:30):
entitlement that just crushesyou into paralysis.
That's what I was walking aroundwith for years, but go, I was
definitely going to all theparties.
I was definitely saying, Yeah.
bro, got shit coming, shitcoming, bro.
She's come, got stuff on thehard drive, not doing shit,
fully scared, fully worriedabout judgment.
And honestly, when the pandemichappened, I had a moment where I

(04:50):
was like, okay, might as well,you know, I have all this time
now in lockdown.
Let's work on music.
First thing that happens inMarch, 2020, 2020, I plug in my
hard drive, eight years worth ofmusic studio sessions that some
of that I paid for, you know,paid to go with a singer to go
do.
I plugged one thing wrong andpressed one button, it

(05:13):
reformatted the hard drive, andeverything was gone.

Nik (05:17):
ha ha ha ha ha.

Track 1 (05:18):
Eight years of me, the Ding Dong, going to parties in
the Hollywood Hills, Yeah.
bro, I got some shit man, I gotsome bangers bro.
All that shit that I was tellingpeople that I was working on,
that I knew in my heart ofhearts I was never actually
gonna put out because I was soscared, all gone.
So, You want to talk aboutdivine intervention?

(05:39):
Goodbye.
And I literally was like, dude,I was ready to pay like
thousands of dollars to get thatdata back.
I went, I took it to a place,even in the pandemic, nothing
impossible to get it back gone.
Cause there was a shitty harddrive.
I'm an idiot.
Self sabotage.
Okay.
Whatever.
Gone.
So I basically was like, I waslike, it was such a traumatic
experience and I'm, I'm not thefirst and not the last music

(06:01):
producer for this to happen but,Then at one point I started like
during the pandemic startingactually Because like all the
kind of dj homies and stuffwhere You know We were into like
people were into like crypto andall these different kind of like
alternative different kind ofthings I I was like really good
at that stuff.
So I started becoming friendswith like Kind of producers and
people that really, but beforeit was just a different kind of
conversation.

(06:21):
I was Mr.
Get in the email and try to go,Hey, excuse me.
Can you listen to my song?
I started becoming friends withsome pretty big producers that I
am fortunate enough to still befriends with.
We had our group chats, ourgroup chats that survived the
pandemic and, you know, around2021 and the 20 to one 2022, I
started like kind of.
Producing music again.
Oh guys, what do you think ofthis guys?

(06:42):
What do you think of this?
You know, I'm in the group chatwith these producers.
We're all kind of comfortable.
Maybe it's time for me to start.
What do you think of this?
What do you think of this?
What do you think of this beingso tentative tentative?
Oh, check this out.
What do you, what do you guyshave any thoughts on this?
I was going to quit because Iwas just like kind of doing it
as like kind of a ruse.
I, I was still in my old mindsetof maybe if this producer guy.
Who I admire, says that it'sgood, that then maybe I can go

(07:03):
and finish it.
That kind of mindset.
Which, which was just anextension of how I was thinking
when I was in L.
A.
You know, same shit.
If only someone

Nik (07:13):
validation,

Track 1 (07:14):
Right.
Completely.

Nik (07:17):
Yeah.

Track 1 (07:17):
At one point, and I honestly was just doing it for
shits, I was just like, I'm justgonna quit, this is like
bullshit, this is like an emptypursuit, I suck at music,
everything sucks, I suck, Isuck, I suck.
At one point, a producer whoshall not be named, but he's a
person that kind of saved mylife, hit me in the side DMs,
and was like, yo, gosh, you keepsending us works in progress.
You keep trying to show usstuff.

(07:38):
Let me just If I were to tellyou that your song that you're
showing us is the worst frickinsong ever made, am I allowed to
curse?

Nik (07:47):
Yeah, fuck yeah.

Track 1 (07:49):
The worst gosh darn

Nik (07:51):
Wait, I gotta, I gotta share a funny side note about
that.
I literally searched in my, inmy editing platform how many
times I said fuck on my last, onmy last episode and it was 43
times.
ha.
Ha,

Track 1 (08:04):
break that record today ladies and gentlemen

Nik (08:06):
ha.
Let's fucking go.

Track 1 (08:08):
Yeah, so basically it's like listen if I if I if you he
was telling me if you showed mea song And I said, this is the
worst fucking piece of shit I'veever heard in my life.
Quit making music.
Or if I said, this record isgoing to change music forever.
He said, it doesn't fuckingmatter because it doesn't matter
what I think.
It doesn't matter what all theseother producer fuckers think.

(08:30):
Everyone's busy in their ownworld, right?
Everybody has their own biases,their own, who knows what they
had were eight that day, upsetstomach.
What matters is what I talkingto me, what you as an artist
think, and what the fans thinkwhen you deliver the product to
them in whatever state you deem.
It necessary and completed to bedelivered that blew my mind.
That was in December, 2022 attowards the end of the, it was

(08:52):
right before new year's and Iwas like, you know what, dude,
I'm going to do somethingfucking crazy that I've never
done before.
Why?
Because I lacked the technicalability.
I was been a fucking producerfor almost a decade.
No, it's not because I liketechnical ability.
It's because I was fuckingscared of every little mouse
running around the holes of myown mind, thinking that I'm

(09:12):
getting judged, thinking thatI'm going to be, Oh, it's not
going to be good.
Oh, the snare drum.
This fucking bullshit that Iinflicted upon myself for such a
long time I said i'm not i'mgonna just i'm gonna be a
fucking psychopath.
I'm just gonna do a song a weekAnd that and I did it and I said
i'm gonna give this music shitone more try one more real

(09:32):
college try and uh Here I am,dude.
I didn't think I was gonna getpast week five

Nik (09:39):
dude,

Track 1 (09:39):
out 52 records had a collaboration with bingo players
come out that we were trying toput out for years and it finally
came out in april Of last year,bro.
I fucking did it and you know itit It changed my mind on a lot
of things.
So that was my incredibly long,but short story.
Hopefully it was short for thelisteners aren't weren't getting
too waterboarded from, from thatstory.
but yeah, that's, that's kind ofwhere I'm at right now.

(10:01):
And I did it and I'm reaping thebenefits of my own personal
delusions

Nik (10:05):
yeah, yeah.
I love it, man.
I really love it.
And to be honest, it is such acommon challenge.
We do have this ego part of ourbrain that's not just like, yo,
I think I'm the shit, but it'salso there to protect ourselves.
It's this part of our brain thatjust wants to ensure our
survival to make sure that wedon't get hurt, to make sure

(10:26):
that we don't experience anypain.
And this is such a commonchallenge.
Trap that artists get stuck inany creatives really is, you
know, what if I put this out andpeople don't like it?
What if I don't get accepted?
What if I get made fun of,right?
It's a scary thing.
And it's that whole, you know,paralysis by analysis.

(10:47):
We can just get stuck into notdoing anything.
So I want to, I want to hear alittle bit more about that
because, you know, I see peoplethat are still stuck in it all
the time, right?
That are second guessingthemselves that are needing that
external validation.
why do you think you got caughtup in that so much?

Track 1 (11:07):
because it is a, it, you know, I'm no, I'm no
psychologist or human behavior,behavioral analyst.
But I mean, I.
It's a, it's a combination ofextreme fear.
It's like, it's like a, it'slike a deadly, uh, chemical
reaction of extreme fear,extreme like analysis paralysis,

(11:27):
extreme rejection sensitivity,extreme anxiety.
And I know anxiety is a wordthat gets used in many, many
contexts, but in this case it'slike, it's just like a creative
anxiety, which is like kind of,Usually for a lot of human
beings, even if you're not likecreativity is not your main
thing, creativity usually shouldbe like a bastion for you to get
away from the actual problemsthat sometimes we have in our

(11:49):
lives, right?
You know, it always think aboutlike, you know, the CEO of a
fortune 500 company that goesand plays harmonica on the
weekends, you know, in a fuckingdive bar that, you know what I
mean?
That's the one moment when theguy doesn't look like he's, you
know, constipated and about toexplode.
Right.
For me, having that creativeanxiety, in addition to all
those other things, it w it w itwas just.
You can't, you can't create andyou can't do anything else.

(12:11):
Right.
And it, and

Nik (12:11):
difference is that you're as an artist who has claimed
that this is the thing that Iwant to do.
That's going to be my career.
I feel like that's what puts allthe pressure on like the CEO can
go play the harmonica because hedoesn't give a fuck about
playing the harmonica, right?
It's not what he really caresabout.
So there's no, there's nopressure

Track 1 (12:30):
there.
And you just nailed it, right?
It all comes down to identity.
It all comes down to identity.
I am a, this, I am a, this, theminute you start saying, I am a,
this, you are almost implyingthat, and this is, this is, this
is where I think the jump offwas for me that I am a, it's, I

(12:52):
am a, this because.
I am deemed this by an invisibletribunal of infinite peers that
are constantly judging my everymove, right?
It's not just, I am an artist.
I am an artist that is not asgood as Skrillex and all of my
other bros that are producersthink I am bad until I am good,
so I have to prove to them thatI am good.

(13:14):
That is bullshit, but that'swhat happens, and that is, and
that is The minute you have thecognitive dissonance of, I'm
dope, but then you go home andyou don't work on your craft,
then you go to a party and youget a little buzz on and you go,
Yeah, dude, I got a couplefucking tracks coming up with
Steve and Bob and Mike and Noyou don't.

(13:35):
But there's power in going andsaying, No you fucking don't.
And then leading.
The problem is when you look atyourself through the lens of
somebody else, you are alwaysgoing to be, you are always
going to find yourself in areally cognitive dissonance
position at all times, period.

Nik (13:54):
can't hide from

Track 1 (13:54):
you can't hide from yourself.
but You can be, get really goodat doing.
your, you know, Gettysburgaddress at parties in the
Hollywood Hills saying, Yeah.
brother, I got a couple ofthings cracking.
Yeah.
I got a couple of things goingon.
That is so.
The danger is when you become sogood at telling the fucking
story and become so bad atopening up Ableton or picking up
the paintbrush or sitting downat the fucking computer to write

(14:17):
or getting in the studio andpracticing your dance moves, the
minute, because your brain, Ibelieve, at least my brain, my
brain is a little fucked up, butthe truth is like, If your brain
knows when you, in secret, arenot following up with the thing
that you claim to be youridentity, the fundamentals of
your identity, I am an, let'stalk about in this case, right,

(14:40):
electronic music producer, DJ,whatever.
I'm a producer, but your brainknows that when you go home,
you're scrolling on Instagramgoing this fucking guy I came up
at the same time as him.
Why is, he playing EDC thisfucking girl?
Why is she getting so many likeson her on her on her fucking
name?
Oh my god.
She just knows somebody Oh, he'sjust friends with the owner if
that's what you're spending 99percent of the time doing which

(15:02):
I understand the trap that wefall into because of social
media Versus opening up fuckingAbleton and just throwing shit
at the wall Your brain remembersand your brain will it.
that is the darkest spiral asfar as I'm good I know we're
like going off the subject, butthat's a dark,

Nik (15:17):
is, this is

Track 1 (15:18):
but that's a dark spiral.
That is the darkest spiral ifyou're not stacking Undeniable
tangible proof that what you'redoing lines up with your
identity It's gonna and I'm Imean all jokes aside I mean,
This is like a serious thing.
it.
used to be something that Iwould be like, uh huh But this
is a serious thing.
This is where humongous YouMental health problems begin

(15:39):
because who you are and what youdo is two different things and
when that misalignment happensHow do we calm the shame?
How do we calm the guilt?
How do we calm that I should bedoing better because these
people will judge me but fuckthose people what do they know?
Anyway darkness darknessdarkness, you know,

Nik (15:59):
I get it, man.
I get it.
You know, as a coach, as a lifecoach, there's this whole thing.
I'm helping people get theirlife together.
I'm helping them be moredisciplined, be more organized,
achieve their goals, right?
And this is something a lot ofcoaches fall into is thinking
then that we have to be perfect,right?
And, and I've gotten caught upin that.
And, and I also have to behonest, a lot of times the stuff

(16:20):
I'm helping people with, likeI'm still working on it too.
You know, uh, there's this ideaof progress over perfection.
And I think that that's such a,a really big foundational piece
of, you know, just my process islike, okay, we're.
Let's get a little bit betterevery day.
Let's focus on making progress,but also know that we're never
going to be perfect.

(16:40):
We're never going to fuckingalways show up and just like
always get the work done.
You know, we're not machines.
We're human.
And part of being human isbeing, is being messy.
but I noticed some of thatcognitive dissonance as well,
where I'm like, damn, like I, Iwant to be this fucking well
oiled, You know, that I'm like,I wish all of my clients can
step into their power as well.

(17:02):
But there's this interesting,you know, dissonance too, of
like, we're actually neverreally going to be that we're
always going to be human and notperfect.
You

Track 1 (17:09):
And, and with that said, the jump off, I think some
people get it when they'reyoung, some people realize this
in some kind of crazy, you know,I always say the broken clock
is, You know?
right, right.
Two times a day, but some peoplefigure this out when they're
young.
They just go, listen, uh, I justneed to do, I need to, I need to
make, I'm looking around and I'mseeing, I'm not good.
you know, some people get itwhen they're young and that's

(17:30):
how you get legends.
That's how you get the PorterRobinson's of the world.
That's how you get theSkrillex's of the world because
they just go, well, I kind ofcome from these humble
backgrounds.
I don't fucking know anybody.
I'm just going to do shit.
I got to, I got to close thegap.
Some

Nik (17:43):
like, it's like hard work over talent,

Track 1 (17:46):
Oh man, don't

Nik (17:47):
kind of naturally talented and it seems like it all happens
super easily.
And then there's the ones thatare like, no, I put in my, my
10, 000 hours, 20, 000 hours,and

Track 1 (17:55):
maybe a hundred thousand hours

Nik (17:56):
workhorse.

Track 1 (17:57):
And that's what I'm saying.
so you know, it comes back andyou know, this is something that
I talk about.
Like I'm really, my bigplatform, believe it or not, is
Instagram threads.
It's bigger than my IG.
It's bigger than my fuckingSoundCloud.
I really.

Nik (18:07):
inspiring.
Everybody go follow.
I like, I like don't really goon threads, but I will go on
threads just to follow you andsee the inspirational stuff that
you're posting every day, likeeverything that you put out.
It's such good just tips andvery practical and like
everybody go follow him on

Track 1 (18:23):
Thank you so

Nik (18:24):
he's spitting fire

Track 1 (18:25):
Right.
So thank you.
I appreciate that so much.
And you know, the crazy thingabout threads is like, it's like
a reset algorithm.
Like, so like, you know,Instagram account, my Instagram
account is like 12 years old orsomething or whatever.
I don't know if I can.
So.
It's kind of like fucked up.
I, I'm still to this day, liketrying to crawl out of this like
hole by posting content, givingdata and explaining to the
algorithm that I'm a musician,I'm a musician.
But on Instagram threads, whenit came out you start from zero.

(18:46):
So I started going music, music,music, music, music.
Now all I get is independentartists following me.
That's amazing.
So I get to, I get this kind ofcrazy perspective where, cause
I'm fascinated with hearingeverybody's story because I hear
their story and I go, I was justthere.
I was just there.
I was just there mentally whereyou were.
and one thing that I, thatalways comes up and it comes
back to what we were saying isthat when you're not creating

(19:08):
stuff, when you're not, I'm anartist, I'm a singer, I'm a
dancer, I'm an entrepreneur.
I'm an, if you're not, if you'resaying that and people go, Hey,
that's Steve, the entrepreneurguy, but then Steve goes home
and like, these fucking peopleare making more money than me.
These fucking guys that don'tknow shit are making more
progress than me.
And not working on your thing?

Nik (19:28):
Yeah.

Track 1 (19:29):
Well, that's going to open the floodgates to thinking
that the world is a conspiracybuilt around fucking your life
up.
Because that, that's the onlything that can explain why this
magical force is stopping youfrom sitting and doing the thing
that you say you want to do.

Nik (19:47):
Ooh.

Track 1 (19:47):
So, what, what's the antidote?
And this is what I see onthreads all the time.
The people that are not, thatare lost a little bit, are not
doing.

Nik (19:59):
Yeah.

Track 1 (20:00):
So what do I tell people on threads all the time?
I say, go make fucking garbage.
Go make 100 pieces of shit.
X.
Paintings.
Digital arting.
Songs.
Go make shitty dance routines.
Go, uh, Go make shitty businessideas.
Go make anything.
Because if you're not makingsomething, the darkness creeps

(20:22):
in.
The whispers start.
It's like a fucking horrormovie.
Oh Yeah.
your friend fucked you over, whoused to fuck with your business.
He doesn't like any of yourstuff anymore.
He doesn't share any of yourshitty, low effort posters of
your stupid thing anymore.
He must hate you.
But, of course, because youdon't have any proof that you
are working towards something.

Nik (20:43):
Well, this is, this is the problem is that everybody wants
to make something great.
It's not just to make something.
It's no one's like, oh, I justwant to like make a song.
Everyone's like, I want to makea fucking great song.
I want to make a song that theworld is going to listen to and
all the DJs are going to play.
And it's going to get signed tomy favorite label.
That's what everybody reallydeep down wants.

(21:04):
But.
You can't make something greatuntil you make something good

Track 1 (21:10):
and you can't make something good ha ha!

Nik (21:13):
you make something bad.
So you have to, like, be in thatzone of make a lot of bad shit.
You don't get to skip levels.
You can't get to that level.
You got to make a lot of badstuff.
Nobody starts.
And I think that that's thecognitive dissonance is they're
like, well, I'm an artist.
I'm like, I want to be a fuckinggreat artist, but can you be
okay with being a bad artist?
Cause you have to be bad.

(21:33):
In order to be good, in order tobe great.
Like you don't get to fuckingskip it.
And that's the, that's thechallenge.
So I love that you bring thatup.
Like, yeah, go make a hundredpieces of garbage.
Like it's part of the fucking

Track 1 (21:44):
It's the best.
Because then, my dude, here'sthe thing.
You or me or anybody that willever listen to this.
Cause this is the thing that Ihave, Like this is my message,
dude.
Like, this is the core of mymessage when I, cause I do also,
I do like music coachings,that's like my kind of like side
business, I help people withproduction and stuff, especially
after the 52 songs I've gottenlike clients that, you know, and

(22:05):
people think that.
I'm going to go in there and go,okay, so I use this EQ and this
compressor.
No, dude, do you know how much,I'm sure you know, that's why
I'm preaching to the choir here,but dude, some of it, it's, it's
a therapy session.
It's not a fucking technicaldude.
You want to learn how to use acompressor, go on YouTube and
you won't be in your lifetime,be able to watch all the videos
about how a fucking compressorworks.
So I'm not here to tell youabout compressors.

(22:27):
I'm here to tell you that if yousay that you're an artist, be
making art.
Because otherwise you're gonnago insane.
Here's the thing, I had like a,I had like an epiphany just now
when you were saying that.
It's like, dude, bad artists aregood artists.
Because the bad artist, willget, do bad shit for a long time
and get bored of sucking ass.

(22:50):
you just, that's just how it is.
I'm so fucking bad compared toSkrillex.
Wait a second.
I'm getting a little, wait asecond.
Hold on.
What if on my next song I turnthe drums up?
Yo, my drums sound fucking good.
Okay, okay, okay.
Oh shit, actually my bass soundsreally bad.
Whoa, now my next song, my basssounds better and my fucking
drums are good.
That is not gonna happen ifyou're sitting there going,

(23:11):
Well, why does the algorithmmake, fucking garbage, dude?
make garbage, all day becausethat's how you become your
heroes.
That's how you surpass yourheroes.

Nik (23:24):
you won't make garbage forever.
It's eventually going to

Track 1 (23:26):
It's impossible.
It's gravity.
It's like a law of physics,dude.
The garbage can only be garbagefor so long.

Nik (23:33):
Yeah.
So do you remember 52 to Zoo?
Do you remember that campaign

Track 1 (23:38):
oh my God.
No, but

Nik (23:39):
Came around.
So this is, check this out, bro.
It's going to blow your mind.
Zoo did the same thing beforeanybody knew who zoo was.
And I use this as an example allthe time, just this whole idea
that like quantity is whatcreates quality.
So zoo was a student at USC.
He was like

Track 1 (23:59):
he's from San Francisco.
Shouts out, shouts out to theboys.

Nik (24:01):
Yeah.
And then, and then he was, youknow, down, down in LA and, uh,
playing local parties.
And then he did a campaigncalled 52 to Zoo.
He put out a track a week onSoundCloud every single week for
an entire year.
Now, what happened was, youknow, he, and I always say he
probably made 50 songs beforethat.
He probably made 50 songs afterthat, you know, he probably had
made 200 songs, right?

(24:22):
Then, then he

Track 1 (24:23):
probably thousands.
Honestly,

Nik (24:25):
yeah, right?
He got discovered by anincredible manager, Jake Udell.
They then wiped his wholeexistence clean and then
relaunched him, like making itseem like he came out of
nowhere.
I think the second song he putout was faded.
Faded was like a massive globalhit still gets played today.
And people are like, Holy shit.
This guy came out of nowhere.
And it's like, no motherfucker.
This dude made.

(24:46):
Hundreds of songs to get to theone song that actually really
changed his career.
He dedicated himself to theprocess.
And that's what I love aboutwhat you're doing is like you
are focusing on the processrather than the result.
The result will come.
The result will be, I'm going toget the shows.
I'll get the manager.
I'll have the big hit.
I'll have, I'll get signed to myfavorite label.
That's all everyone's focusingon the result.

(25:06):
I want this thing, but.
You got to put 99 percent ofyour energy into the process.
What's the process that'sactually going to get you there?
The process is sit down and workand hustle and grind and put in
the hours.
You know, I always use theexample of like an NFL team
that's trying to win theSuperbowl at the beginning of
the season.
They know we want to win thefucking Superbowl.
I know what the target is, butwe're not thinking about the

(25:27):
Superbowl every day.
We're thinking about what is.
The game that we're playing thisweekend.
That's

Track 1 (25:32):
Yeah, exactly.

Nik (25:34):
then we're focused on in the game We're like, okay, what
quarter of the game are we in?
Like we got to win the firstquarter and in order to win the
first quarter.
We just got to win this one playWhat's the one play i'm
executing right now, right?
And so the same thing's like yo,what's the one thing you need to
do today?
Let's sit down and work on yourfucking

Track 1 (25:49):
So, so, so with that said, it's so, it's so perfect
what you're saying.
I completely agree.
So, and I'm on threads whereI've seen it all, by the way, I
want to make it clear in thebeginning of threads, I was
like, Oh, because on me, mepersonally, when I talk to
artists and stuff, like just ingeneral, especially post the 52
songs, and even during dude, Iwas always like talking people's
ears off about like how amazingof experience this is, like how

(26:10):
important it is to just dostuff.
So for me to have an outlet onInstagram threads, to be able to
just like, Put that out andpeople get like some help out of
it, like strangers and stuff.
It's amazing.
I was attacked like crazy.
Everybody thought that I waslike a fucking like a hustle
culture, guru, fucking likeAndrew Tate, fucking of like
EDM.
No, straight up, dude.
People would say nasty things tome.
And I was like, you know what,dude, that means that I'm doing

(26:31):
something, right?
I go, I was so excited whenpeople were saying, fuck you,
man.
What's next?
Let's buy your course.
Great.
Amazing.
That made me so happy because Iwas like, dude.
So, and one of the things is.
That example that you just saidabout the NFL team, I get it.
I personally understand exactlyhow we can equate that to
creativity.
Dude, people would attack mewhenever I would compare shit to

(26:51):
athletics.
It's all about, this is aboutour emotional Yes, it is.
Our creativity is emotional.
So, to compare, combine it,compare it with what you just
said about we gotta win thequarter, then we gotta win the
season, then we gotta win thewhole thing.
How I translate that in terms offor creatives is you need to
violently focus on falling inlove with your process.

(27:12):
You need to create a little cozyfucking in, but I don't care how
cliche it sounds because I'velived it.
And now I get it.
You need to make your workenvironment clean or dirty.
If you love dirty, I don't know,whatever the hell light the
fucking candles, get the fuckingmood lighting, right?
Get the monitor looking the way,get everything you need to be.
As you need to get serious withthe environment and you need to

(27:33):
get serious with the process.
Whatever you got to do, lie,steal and cheat to be able to
get ideas off the ground.
You got to do everything you canto make the process like
creating fucking toast in thetoaster.
You need to do it like that isthe same thing as like figuring
out how we're going to win thisquarter, how we're going to get
touchdowns.
That to me is that equivalentfor artists.
Like you have to just putblinders on and go, I look like

(27:56):
a fucking dork.
I'm silly.
Nobody does X thing that I'mtrying to do to be creative this
way.
I'm still going to do it.
Cause it means something to me.
And as you do that going, thisis who I am and accepting it
because it's an organic thingthat you did.
It's, it's everything.
And I think maybe it's sports.
I'm not much of an athlete, ifyou can imagine, but for me,
it's like, How many ways can wefigure out to not second guess

(28:20):
ourselves in the entire processstarting from I'm dragging in
one Fucking snare sample in orI'm choosing what I'm gonna wear
when I announce my Las Vegasresidency Okay, everything needs
to be you and I just this islike a Skrillex just now one of
the Grammys I literally haveSkrillex Uh, Grammy acceptance

(28:41):
speech as my, uh, phonebackground.
You know, just so people cansee, you know, success is
something that success issomething that you attract.
He said also in like a redcarpet thing, he was like, some
guy asked him at the red carpet.
It was like, you know, on my,the interviewer said, my, uh, my
brother is like, Oh, up andcoming producer.
What would you have to say to upand coming producers that are
like yourselves trying to makeit happen from their bedrooms?

(29:02):
He said something, he saidsomething along the lines of you
have to be so in You have to beinto what you're creating.
You have to be into what you'redoing, because if you're not,
dude, you can't put a gun tosomebody's head and have them
understand number one.
And number two, love with theirwhole heart, what it is you're
adding to the world creatively.
And once you realize that iswhen people you create, that is

(29:25):
when you open up yourself to beable to actually create
something that people can love.
Every artist that everybodyadmires sat down and said, fuck.
this.
Everyone's doing something.
I can't fucking copy themanymore.
I'm done.
I'm too good at copying I'mgonna be a dumbass and i'm gonna

(29:45):
try this kind of vocal and thiskind of sound that isn't popular
and then you win

Nik (29:50):
yeah, man.

Track 1 (29:51):
Multiply that times time and you win.
That's it.

Nik (29:54):
We've both seen it with a lot of our mutual friends, you
know, a lot of, a lot of theguys from icon that like went on
to go really, really blow up andreally like get out there.
Every single one of them wasdoing something different, you
know, and I credit a lot of thatto just the philosophy of like
the art of flow class that wetaught there, which was

Track 1 (30:12):
Heard a lot about that.
Yeah.

Nik (30:14):
Like tap into like get out of your mind.
Your mind is going to copy whatother people are doing because
that's the safe route.
There's guaranteed success.

Track 1 (30:22):
Well, Well, there isn't.

Nik (30:24):
get that's what we think

Track 1 (30:25):
That's the, yeah, exactly.
Yeah.

Nik (30:26):
That's the way the mind fucks with.
He's like, Oh, well, that'swhat's working.
So that's what I should do to besuccessful.
So we start copying, you know,what's already out there.
And the whole idea is like, no,you know, Go really tap into
what feels good to you and trustthat.
And, and even if it guides yousomewhere, that's really weird
and really different.
And it was like, okay, all of asudden Keizo starting to fuck
with hardstyle and hardstylewasn't cool.

(30:48):
He's putting hardstyle kick

Track 1 (30:49):
Put it on the map, put it on the

Nik (30:50):
creates his own lane.
Keaton picks up his fuckingguitar and he's like, yo,
Sullivan King, I'm going tostart just playing guitar on my
fucking tracks and like, boom,what do you know?
Creates his own lane, jaws withfill the volume, fucking
slander, bringing in like trancesounds into, into trap.
You know, it was just like all,all these guys are just like,
you know what, fuck it.
We're going to make some shitthat we think is dope and just

(31:11):
trust that.
And it's like, cool.
You know, and again, also notto.
Not to be chasing the successthough, because it's also like,
there's like a paradox theretoo.
If you're like, Oh, I'm going todo this because this is what's
going to make me successful.
You can also still, it's like,as long as you're still chasing
it rather than tuning into yourown heart and soul.
Also your own heart and soulmight want to make the same shit

(31:32):
that everybody's making becauseyou fucking love it.
And if you love it,

Track 1 (31:34):
For, for sure.
For sure.
I these days like really try to,I'm trying as Much as I can, I
threa And me interacting withpeople on threads has helped a
lot.
But dude, trying to look atthings not from the industry,
like, Ind people jaded, like us,like, industry people kind of
point of view.
Look at look at the from theperspective of the fans, dude.
Fans know the differencebetween, like, this fake, well

(31:55):
manicured, like, fuckin dubstepguy, who, like, looks like, you
know, oh my god, I, you know.
Or a guy that, like, is fuckinpassionate.
Like, a great example of theseguys levity.
Have you, have you heard aboutthat?
Anyway, these guys just, dude,they make dope, they have, they
have some pretty dope music.
They're like, they're, uh, butdude, they're pure energy.
You can't fake them.
Their content, they're in lovewith it, Are they making, are

(32:17):
they, are they changing Dubstepthe way that Skrillex did when
he came out?
I don't know, but dude, theseguys are getting a rabid fanbase
because they are not fuckingjoking about how much they're
loving it.
So guess what?
Okay, and I wanted to I want toactually cover a thing that you
were saying here Anotherphenomenon that I realized that
I went through and I'm seeing itnow all over the place and

(32:37):
recognizing what it was Is youalso get to the point as an
artist especially in theproduction world music
production whatever when you getreally good at copying something
and your shit actually startssounding really like good like
good good because you put in theHours and you're you know that
you're Jesus a parent on serumand you can do all this stuff
and you're like amazing You Thena new thing happens that a lot

(32:58):
of people I'm noticing a hugeamount of people are stuck at
what you're from zero, you're inthe bedroom, you don't even know
how to drag in a drum loop.
Then you become hella good.
You become hella good at makinglike, you know, excision songs,
but you're, you know, you knowhow to make use all the sounds,
you know how to make it.
But then what happens is you hita ceiling, not of skill, but of
entitlement.

(33:19):
This is something that's veryinteresting that I'm noticing
all the time.
Kids that are getting, that arehella good, that know they're
hella good, that know they havethe sauce, immediately go I
demand stuff.
Why is it that I'm so fuckinggood, and they are?
From a technical perspective ormaybe even a musical and
interesting idea perspective.
Now you've hit a new plateauwhere it's no longer a skill
ceiling.
It's an entitlement ceiling,where if you think just because

(33:39):
you're fucking good at music,that you think that you deserve
stuff, you're done just becauseyou did a thing and you think
you deserve a reaction fromsomebody else.
You're done for And this is thething that I see all the time,
because you have these kids thatnow start going.
Oh, so, so, okay.
How does it.
manifest itself?
Why we, we need more, uh,undiscovered artists on lineups.

(34:01):
Bro, your social media contentis you complaining about
lineups.
Your social media content iscomplaining that we have to make
short form content to promoteour music in a world where.
99 percent of, like, I alwayssay this, You know, uh, to be a
little morbid, people get intocar accidents because they're
watching TikToks.
So if people's lives are lessimportant than watching some

(34:22):
fucking person doing a dance,that's where the attention is
at.
So it's like that, when people'scontent becomes sick, like,
fucking logo and sick brandingand duh duh duh, and then like
some sick, like, show thing, andthey're amazing, they have
amazing, like, music, and thenthey're just complaining all
day, you're screwed!

Nik (34:38):
Yeah.

Track 1 (34:38):
going to go, Oh my God, this guy is such an amazing
producer.
And the way he fucking complainsand cries all day on Twitter.
Oh, I cannot wait to buy aticket, but dude, this is what
happens.
And it, it requires it's it's sowhat, I always say on threads is
like self awareness is yournuclear weapon in your arsenal.
As an artist, self awareness isyour secret weapon.
If you can't realize that you'vehit a plateau, whether it's

(35:02):
ideologically or creatively.
If you can't take a step backand go, Ooh, here are several
worldviews or things that Ibelieve about the industry or
creativity that are fuckingholding me back.
You're in big trouble because ifyou're surrounded, if you, if
you're in an echo chamber,everyone's like, dude, you're so
fucking sick.
You deserve to be at EDC dog.
And you don't have a moment tolike question that it's like,

(35:24):
Hmm, maybe I'm a dick or maybethere's like something about me
that I'm just not emphasizing.
that's not getting me into thoseconversations that could get me
there.
You're going to be in bigtrouble, no matter how I hate
this word.
This is going to be a wholenother conversation, but I
despise the word talent.
I hate the word talented.
I'm not just saying that.
Right.

Nik (35:44):
here's, here's, here's the thing.
They're not actually good andthey're not actually talented at
being an artist, at least rightnow, because there's a bigger
picture of what it actuallytakes to be an artist.
Like, and I say that there'sfive things.
And you could be really, reallygood at music.
And I think that's who we'retalking about.
These guys that are

Track 1 (36:03):
like, geniuses.
Geniuses.

Nik (36:05):
fucking good at making music.
And it's like, cool.
There's also more stuff that youhave to be good at, right?
You have to have for, and firstfor me, the foundation is the
mindset and the mindset is all,that's like the energy.
Like, are you having fun?
Do you have good energy?
Do you have a good mindset?
Do you have, you know, do youhave a growth mindset?
Are you, are you positive?
Right?
Like, do you believe inyourself?
You have to be good at themindset side.

(36:26):
You have to be good at music,but you also have to be good at,
At branding, you have to be goodat marketing.
You have to be good atnetworking.
So just because you're good atthat one thing, that's only 20
percent of it, right?
Are you actually good at all theother stuff?
Because somebody that's actuallyreally good at marketing and
networking and not as good asmusic, it will fucking bypass

(36:46):
you, you know, very, veryquickly if you are not good at
those things

Track 1 (36:50):
That happens daily.
On a daily

Nik (36:51):
And, and and back to the, the mindset part of it is if you
want to fight that and resistand resist that and be like,
well, it shouldn't be that way.
You know, I should just be ableto be good at music and rah,
rah, rah.
You know, like that's the sortof victim mindset and the
entitlement where it's like, allright, well, yeah.
And that's where like, okay,this, that's the piece that you
really got to work on then isthe mindset part.
Because until you get out of thefucking victim hood, you're

(37:13):
never, you're never going toreally get the results that,
that you want to

Track 1 (37:16):
Correct.
And people aren't told that, andI think that's, that's a big
pity.
I think people don't realize it,and they don't have somebody in
their life, maybe until it's,like, too late, like, you know,
maybe it gets to the point,well, too late meaning, they go
and they have, like, a bigopportunity, meeting with a
manager, da da da and theysquander it because of their
entitlement.
I mean, dude, we, these are theunspoken, you know?
this is probably happening on aday by day basis, and, Like,

(37:39):
there's certain people that Icome in contact with, like, I
mean, on Instagram threads, Ikeep coming back to it because
I'm meeting all walks of life onthere.
I'm meeting people that are justbusking and love it, and like,
they sing on guitar at the trainstation.
Some people that are, you know,up and coming dubstep producers.
I have people that are up andcoming, you know, people that
are booking their first, like,Beyond Wonderland, uh, after
years of grinding.
I have people that all, and I'mfascinated with all their

(37:59):
stories.
Because, number one, I lovetheir stories.
Helping them.
I love learning the stories, butalso of course, and it's kind of
a selfish way, it also validatesa God of things that I'm
starting to learn about.
Right now as an artist, you knowwhat I mean?
So it's very, it's very, verytrue.
yeah, sometimes if like you're adick or I guess this thing,
what, like you, you were talkingabout jaws, you're talking about
like a lot of these differentpeople that you mentioned, the

(38:21):
one very interesting thing thata lot of these people,
especially the icon gang, youknow, you're talking about
solving King case.
Well, again, these are all myhomies.
I have songs.
I have a, I have a song withSullivan King.
I have an old remix with cases.
These are, we go back.
I

Nik (38:31):
was, I was, I was managing him at

Track 1 (38:32):
right, right, right.
Dude, he's, they're brilliant.
But here's the thing dude, allthose people that you mentioned,
and honestly everybody, fuck it,literally anybody that is out
there really doing it big.
It really is an incredible, theyhave the ability to turn on the
professional, the networker,the, but also know not how to
not get walked all over, havetheir own taste, and that meets

(38:56):
in the middle with all of themusic that meets in the middle
with all the creative, creative,visionary stuff.
And that's what I noticed, like,Jaws, Jaws, Jaws is a homie of
mine.
Dude, what's incredible abouthim, I'll never forget I did a
studio session with him onetime.
And he had a, he, we were justfucking around, making music,
whatever, we were, you know,roasting each other, whatever,
had that kind of relationship.
Then, like, somebody called,like, You know, whatever, not,
without going into details,like, a very big DJ called.

(39:16):
And, like, his demeanor kind ofshifted to, like, this kind of
professional person, becausethey had, like, a collab, uh,
collab or something, I forgetwhat the context was.
But, like, you saw Why this guyis why he is because he's able
to do this.
And he's able to do this.
He has his own ducks in order,whether he didn't have a
management or like a team aroundhim.
The way that gravity works ispeople like that will find their

(39:37):
people because they simply havethe house in order.
So what happens is it's like,you know, people that think I'm
good at music.
Love me, manage me, agent, gigs.
You're big trouble,

Nik (39:51):
Yeah, Yeah, you're good at music, but your attitude sucks
and you're not professional.
And yeah, like you said, you gotto have your own, your own house
in order.
I mean, to be honest, man,that's, that's exactly why I've
gotten into this path of whatI'm doing when I really just got
into straight up like lifecoaching and, uh, really
focusing on the other stuff is.
I've saw thousands of peoplecome and go and it's like out of

(40:14):
those thousands of people whoare the ones that really have
gone on to like establish acareer for themselves and have
it, uh, you know, it's like themajority of people really
haven't, you know, and that wasthe question that I always just
kept asking.
What's the difference?
Like, yeah, obviously it's, youknow, You know, the great music
and marketing and branding andall of that, but underneath it,

(40:35):
like below the tip of theiceberg, it's the actual
character and the mindset andthe attitude and the energy, you
know, and, and that's, that's,that's why it's like that
conversation has to be had.
Everybody's just looking atlike, well, how do I get more
followers?
How do I, you know, How do Ilike build my social media?
How I do this?
And I'm like, yeah, that's, uh,that's a part of it.
But this other piece underneathit, that is the, that's the

(40:57):
parking break.
That's like, you're trying toaccelerate through your fucking
life and your career and justwondering like, damn, why is
this so hard?
Why am I not accelerating thelevel of that?
I want to, that's the invisibleparking break.
When you can get that shitdialed in and cleaned up and
work on

Track 1 (41:11):
You, and you know what, and you know what creates
acceleration?
I believe now that, I mean, I'munderstanding this.
And I'm saying now because, youknow, looking back at how I was
after I broke up with the, withmy old, uh, DJ production
partner.
Dude, it was just years ofentitlement and fucking pain
that I was inflicting uponmyself, okay?
Period.
Dude, nobody was telling me tofucking doom scroll and not work
on my songs and fucking go toparties and get fucked up and

(41:31):
tell people that I'm working onshit.
Nobody told me to do that.
Okay.
But what I realized was, dude,the entitlement and that thing
that it's like it's, I need to,I want more followers.
I want that.
I, I, I, I, I'm so good.
Why?
Everyone sleeping on me.
Oh, it must be that TikTok didthis to me.
Oh my.
The promoters are fucked up.
Oh, lineups are this and that.
The secret is, dude, when yougive.

(41:52):
You get when you give you getwhen you give you get and this
is the thing it took me a longtime to understand this Uh, I I
almost I hate to say it but itwasn't until pretty much like
last year when like You knowduring the 52 when I I mean this
was such a humbling experiencefor me to put out music Because
I didn't have a chance to likebreathe and it's good because I
didn't have a chance to Secondguess and worry about shit that

(42:14):
didn't fucking matter shit thatI held so dearly.
Oh my god What is this?
Here's the thing like I Whatended up happening was people
started approaching me andgoing, Hey dude, I really like
what you're doing, can you showme how to do this?
And then I started realizing,dude, like, this is like some
purpose shit.
Like if I can actually go andinspire somebody with my actions
or with my words, and even likesmall conversations, I mean,
there's people that have, thatare now doing, I'm not trying to

(42:36):
say that I'm genius for doingthis, but it's like, there's
people that I've hadconversations with that.
I was like, you know, I don't, Idon't think creativity is a
fucking numbers game.
You shouldn't do this if youdon't want to, but there's
people that are now on thispath, putting out a song a week
because I did it and.
Like, to me, it's like, I wannafuckin nurture those people.
I wanna take care of thosepeople.
Those are my people now.
Those are fellow survivors ofwhat they're about to do to

(42:56):
themselves.

Nik (42:57):
yeah,

Track 1 (42:58):
like, I feel like I'm only now, dude, for the, I've
been saying, I say this all thetime.
This is like my fifth musiccareer.
I've had the up and the down andthe up and the down and the up
and the down.
And now it's like, you know,people always think like, Oh,
what if I went back to highschool with the knowledge that I
have now, or go to college withlike the brains that I have now,
I feel like that's what I'mdoing with music.
I'm starting from zero.
Okay.
I'm starting from nothing.
I really felt that way.
And the thing that I'm doingthis time.

(43:21):
I'm now seeing that a lot ofartists that are coming up or
not doing is focusing on yourpeople.
It's about them.
It's not about you cool DJ.
It's not about you cool producertalented.
It's about the minute somebodyfucking fucks with you.
You, you show that gratitude tothem.
You make them feel like thatthey're enlisted in an army of
yours and you feed them withwhatever it may be.

(43:43):
Support, you know, making themfeel seen.
I will never go back to the waythat I was.
I had my music signed tospinning records multiple times.
Okay.
For a lot of people out there,that is a fucking, they would do
unspeakable, horrible acts toeven get the demo listened to.
And I.
Mr.
Fuckin I did it, ha ha ha.
Guess what happens, dude?

(44:03):
All this new influx of peoplecame liking my music.
I didn't give a fuck.
Not that I didn't give a fuck.
I just didn't have the tools to,like, cater to humans.
Because I was like, I'm theshit, bitch.
I did, I'm, I'm the phoenixrising from the ashes.
Never again will I ever takeregular humans, listeners,
people for granted.
And I'm gonna give to them asmuch as I can.
That's, that's my pledge rightnow.

Nik (44:25):
So good, bro.
So good, man.
It's, it's beautiful to hearthat.
Like it truly is.
I feel like that's part of myvision and just mission as well
is to Help people wake up tothat truth, right?
Because we also see so manyartists that, and just people
like anybody that's just chasingsuccess.
It's like, we see it all thetime.
Like you can get all the successand then still not be happy and

(44:47):
still not be miserable.
And this is like back to.
Like this deeper conversation ofjust being human, right?
If your whole life is around,what can I get?
You are going to live a verymiserable life.
You are not going to find thejoy and the fulfillment.
You will get the cars and thehouses and the partner and like

(45:08):
all of those things, but we seeit all the time.
A lot of people are fuckingunhappy, but what actually makes
us happy, right?
And usually it's about, it'saround more.
More around having goodrelationships, right?
Bringing joy, feeling likeyou're in your purpose, like
giving your gift.
You know, there's somethingspecial about that.
It's like when we go to showslike most of us probably fell in

(45:30):
love with music because we weregoing to going to parties, going
to shows because we wereconnecting with people.
There was energy there, right?
It really is about that energy.
And I think you're hitting onthe secret sauce, which is
shifting from, you know,Operating from your ego and it
being about what can I get into?
What can I give?
There's a different energy thatcomes with that.
The whole process is way morefun.

(45:51):
It feels so much better.
You know, I, I, I reallyresonate, you know, like I'm, I
resonate with the 52.
Uh, because I've been puttingout the podcast every week,
every Monday since I started andwe're getting close.
Yeah, we're getting close to 50,like we're coming up to a year
pretty soon.
And I'm like, it's such thiscool milestone.

(46:13):
It wasn't really even meant tobe in the first place, but it
was just a natural consequenceof, uh, once I started seeing
that there was.
You know, a community, uh,evolving around this, I got
really, I got really dedicatedto be like, yo, I'm like, I am
going to show up every fuckingweek and make sure that I
deliver.
And the consequence of that hasbeen building beautiful

(46:34):
relationships.
It has been connecting with somany people.
And now there's like thepersonal satisfaction of like,
yo, like I, if I can, I'm goingto hit a year.
Like, that's a really, that's areally

Track 1 (46:43):
It's beautiful, dude.
It's

Nik (46:45):
It's something about like the, about consistency and about
giving, right?
Just giving consistently.
If you can just show up in thatspace and in that energy, like
really cool shit's going tohappen and you, and you might
not know what it is, but like,just, just trust that whatever
energy you put out is the energyyou're going to get

Track 1 (47:00):
Trust, see, and that, so here we go, and that's
another huge thing, what youjust said, is about trust.
This shit is all about trust.
And what people don't realize isthat it begins with trusting
yourself.
How the fuck are people gonnatrust you, or anyone, as an
artist, a manager, a fuckinpromoter, you know, we're
talking in the context of like,you know, dance music, whatever.

(47:20):
How's a collaborator gonna trustyou to come through if you
can't?
And what I'm realizing more andmore, dude, I think that's what
I was trying to say with theJaws example in the case or
whatever example is like, theyjust, they trust themselves and
via them trusting themselveswith their vision at the very
minimum, they becometrustworthy.
And I mean, I don't have to saythat all these artists that we

(47:40):
mentioned, they don't, they'renot playing, put, put your
fucking hands up fucking, youknow, small rooms.
They're playing fucking arenasin order.
And for, to play an arena, it'slike.
Tens of maybe hundreds of peoplesometimes are involved in the,
they have to, we have to trusteach other.
And how can you achievesomething like that?

(48:01):
If you can't even begin to trustyourself and I'm not trying to
see.
So, you know what I mean?
So it's exactly, and how, whatis the mathematical equation for
self trust?
If you're a creative person tobe able to keep a promise to
yourself and go, I'm going tofucking put my head down and
create stuff and focus on myvision.
It just starts with that.

Nik (48:21):
Yeah.

Track 1 (48:22):
That's it.
Like that's a basic and peopleskip that, you know, so

Nik (48:26):
Yeah, having integrity saying, you know, and I like to
I like to get a little woo wooin that

Track 1 (48:32):
all right I'm with i'm

Nik (48:33):
the self, the self trust, right?
I've like, okay, I made apromise that I'm going to show
up to the studio every day, orI'm going to deliver a track
every week.
If I've made the decision thatI'm going to show up and do the
work, I'd show up and I do thework.
And every time I do that, I havemore self trust because I'm
keeping that promise withmyself.
I also like to think about it.
I don't know if you ever readthe book, the war of art,

Track 1 (48:54):
I have it.
I have a copy of it.
Shout out to my my friend.
Uh, yeah Yeah, yeah, I have Ihave

Nik (48:58):
It's, it's, it's cool that you haven't read it because
you've actually been living it.
You've been doing exactly whathe talks about, which is Being a
professional versus being anamateur and amateur only shows
up when they feel inspired aprofessional shows up every day
No matter what I said, I'm gonnashow up even if I don't

Track 1 (49:16):
we're garbage men dude, we're garbage men crack it

Nik (49:19):
the resistance Yeah, even if the resistance is there I
still show up and I put in thework and I do the hours, right?
So there's that sense of selftrust and also I like to think
that there is this Magicalspiritual essence out there
that, that, that we can call themuse, you know, in Greek
mythology, we call it we call itthe muse, the goddesses of
inspiration that come down andgive you those, those beautiful

(49:41):
ideas.
When you're in the studio, itliterally, literally is where
the word music comes from.
It comes from the muse.
And so if you aren't showing upconsistently, I like to think
about it like, You have arelationship.
This is like your mistress, youknow what I mean?
This is like being in arelationship with the muse.
If you don't show upconsistently, like that's not
going to be a very good

Track 1 (50:00):
She's not, she's gonna leave you.
She's gonna, She's gonna stopshowing up.
She or he, she or he will stopshowing up, dude.
Listen, it, and

Nik (50:07):
you show up every day, if you show up and I'm curious,
like, did you experience this asyou showed up more and more?
Did the inspiration, was theinspiration like more

Track 1 (50:14):
oh my god, oh

Nik (50:17):
The muse was, the muse was in the

Track 1 (50:19):
Oh my god, dude, I mean

Nik (50:22):
You're gonna love this

Track 1 (50:23):
No, i'm down.
I'm super.
No.
Well to answer your question andI also want to pose the same
question to you after this, butI got it There what Let me I
want to I want to explain how myprocess what my process turned
into after like 10 weeks It gotto the point where I was just
like I just knew I would beworking on something and
literally the the mindset islike, you know It's sunday night

(50:43):
or saturday night.
I gotta put a song out onmonday.
It's gotta happen rain or shineI'm already here.
I'm in too deep I got to thepoint where my brain got, my
brain got on my team for once inmy life.
It's still not on my team onlike a lot of other aspects of
my life that I wish I could likefucking, you know, uh, whip it
into shape.
But like it got on my team whereI was like, I would be trying,
trying, trying.
Oh, I'm shit.
I'm crap.
I'm an imposter.

(51:03):
I suck.
I suck.
I suck.
I suck.
I suck.
Boom.
Something happens.
I put the right combination ofdrums and melodies and baseline,
whatever.
And dude, I got up.
I'm on a standing desk rightnow, but I would get up out of
my seat when I had something andI would just like.
And by the way, I produced allmy music on gamer headphones.
So as you can see, like I've, Ilive in San Francisco.
It's a very thin walls, kind ofresidential area.
I don't use studio monitors.

(51:24):
So, so these are my, I producedall 52 records.
Uh, well, minus, minus the bingoplayer ones.
Cause we were kind of doing thatfrom before, but, I produced it
all on gamer call of dutyheadphones.
and dude, I what was great is.
No excuses, But the point isthat I, you know, they're
wireless.
Like get up and pace around,pace around the room.
And I would literally, my litmustest for if I'm, I'm good, I'm

(51:45):
onto something is when I would,my body would physically react.
So that's what I'm trying tosay.
At one point, my body, I waslistening to my body, having
that mind, body muse, creativityconnection.
And I would literally just waituntil I got that feeling and
then go, okay, you're in andthat momentum from that
excitement of me, like findingsomething.
Would lead me to finish thatsong sometimes just in that

(52:06):
session.
So yes, the answer is you giveyourself clues, but you cannot
understand the creative cluesunless you're in it.
Like you can't be doom scrollingon social media thinking that
the local promoters fuckingdon't book you because of your
haircut and, and get inspired togo and make.

(52:27):
Some beautiful music.
It's not going to happen.
You have to be in the trenches.
We keep talking about like, thisis the thing, also the language
that we use about like grindingand in the trenches, bro, this
is your escape.
This is your ticket into likeinfinity.
This is your ticket into like alegacy as an artist.
If that's what you care about,this should be a sacred

(52:47):
experience.
It should be an exciting, fun.
Shut the world off experience.
The more resistance we have toit, the less results happen
towards our dreams.
Right.
Or the less mind body create aconnection is happening for you
to be able to sustain it andmaybe one day do make something

(53:08):
that makes you into CalvinHarris or the next Skrillex or
whoever your hero is.

Nik (53:12):
and I think it's important to also normalize the resistance
though as well where it's likethe resistance is normal.
The resistance shows up, right?
Because it is, you know,

Track 1 (53:21):
it's still here for me.
I'm in fog.

Nik (53:23):
right.
And so.
Not running away from it,really, though.
Where it's like, oh, like,=itdoesn't feel good right now.
And like, oh, I'm not inspired.
Or like, oh, I really just wantto go doom scroll or watch
Netflix instead.
Like, the resistance is natural.
Like, like, this is what StevenPressfield talks about in his
book.
Is like, anytime, anytime thereis a big creative calling on

(53:44):
your heart.
It's like, it's something thatis good for you.
It's good for your soul.
It needs to be brought to theworld.
It's natural that there's goingto be resistance to it.
And it's like the bigger thecalling is, the bigger the
resistance is.
And our game is to kind ofbefriend the resistance.
Usually though, what we're doingis we're just running away from
it all the time.
Can you still sit down and bewith it?
And then eventually it's like,there will be less resistance,

(54:04):
but a lot of people don't makeit past that initial stage of
like, Oh, all this resistance ishere.
And you know, that's where wejust end up like fucking off and
all our vices, you know, all our

Track 1 (54:12):
yes, all of our shortcomings shortcomings come
to the

Nik (54:15):
just, Yeah.

Track 1 (54:17):
how so I want to ask you because I'd be like, You
know we're philosophizing here alot But like with that said like
do you what do you feel?
Because again, my other thingthat I'm always thinking about
is like dude I know I'm talkingto musicians a lot, but I feel
like these these principlesapply to anybody dude I don't
care if you're starting to makea fucking app on the cell phone
or you're a ballerina or alawyer It's the same shit, dude.
So I'm gonna ask for you likeWhat did you have?

(54:37):
How about this?
Did you have like a specificinterview or like a specific
moment in this kind of journeythat you're doing with this
amazing podcast that you'redoing, these amazing
conversations you're havingwhere you were like, holy shit,
this is, this is, we're we'recooking now.
Was there a moment, was there aconversation?
I'd love to hear what that was,for you.

Nik (54:53):
You know what it was was really just getting the feedback
from people, because when Istarted, I didn't really have a
big plan for this.
I was just like, I have this

Track 1 (55:02):
that's the fucking

Nik (55:03):
have this little voice in the back of my head.
That's like, I, I think I shoulddo a podcast and, and I know
myself where I'm like, I can siton an idea for like years and
not take action.
So I was like, you know what?
I was like, I'm going to justput, I'm going to go on Amazon
and just like put the likemicrophone and like the whatever
equipment I need.
I'm going to just put it in thecart.
It was like, it was, you know,it was like a, whatever, a

(55:24):
couple hundred bucks orsomething.
And then the next day I waslike, I just have to buy it.
I was like, I just got to clickthe fucking button.
If I click the button, I'm goingto do it.
I didn't know really where itwas going.
Just started hitting up somefriends.
Uh, you know, you guys want tohop on my podcast.
And.
Really what it was was, youknow, I think within a, you
know, however many episodes itwas seeing just like the DMS
come through and people beingreally like, yo, like, this is

(55:46):
really, really, really useful.
Thank you so much for whatyou're doing for the community.
I've been looking for somethinglike this.
And I was like, Oh shit, likethis is actually really adding
value.
And so then it, then it reallybecame about like, wow, how can
I, how can I add value?
How can I, you know, Contributeto the community.
How can I help people?
How can I really be in service?
You know, and so it took a lifeof its own after after a while,

(56:10):
but definitely, I think, youknow, receiving, um, yeah,
receiving the feedback andknowing that that was that that
was working, which, you know, Iwas fortunate to get that.
And I could see how Maybe as anartist though sometimes like you
might not get that feedback fora while and so we also can't be
attached to the feedback andjust to still like to still keep
going with it and just trusting,you know, I was also having fun
with it.
Like I've loved this shit.

(56:31):
Like, you know what I mean?
Like I, I love.
It's been such a good excuse tojust like hit up old friends.
You know, we haven't talked in along time getting to catch up
with people.
Like I get, I get pumped up, youknow, as I get fucking energized
by these.
So I love doing it, you know?
yeah, so

Track 1 (56:46):
Dude, that's amazing.
Let me ask you this.
Now, now it's now it's theGoshfather podcast.
Now I'm interviewing you, dude.

Nik (56:51):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Flip it.

Track 1 (56:52):
Can I, uh, what, what was, uh, I know you have it at
the tip of your tongue.
Give me a moment from aninterview that really, like,
blew your mind.
Give me, give me, I wanna, Iwanna, I wanna be able to have
it on this interview, too.
Like, what was one where youwere like, Damn, that's, that's
some shit that I didn't evenconsider.
Something just profound or,something that somebody said
that you didn't even, just blewyour mind.
Or affected you in some way.

Nik (57:13):
Yeah.
let me, let me uh, let me thinkon that for a second.
Cause there's been, there's beenso many, there's been so many
good

Track 1 (57:19):
something that surprised you maybe.
He's going through the, he'sgoing through the clips.

Nik (57:25):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
No, actually.
Okay.
I'm gonna I'll throw I'll throwit.
I'll throw a good one.
I'll throw a good one out there.
I'm not I'm not going to namethe artist.
I it's actually pretty prettyprobably one of the biggest
artists that I've had and we uh,This was, this was very early on
in like the first coupleepisodes and we had the most

(57:46):
incredible conversation and likeliterally like, you know, got
really deep and reallyvulnerable.
very, very, like very, very realand like even had like some
tears come up, you know, and Ithink that was when I realized
I'm like, Oh, like we're, we'regoing deep, you know, and this.
Podcasts and these conversationshave the potential, you know,
depending on how willing thethe, you know, the topic, but

(58:09):
also how willing the guest is tobe vulnerable or it's like this.
This is a really beautiful humanto human experience and moment.
And then of course I also hadlike not checked the audio
settings properly because I wasjust learning how to use the
program and like the audio wasall fucked up and like we
couldn't we we I tried to editit like we

Track 1 (58:30):
didn't work.
Oh

Nik (58:32):
there's a secret there's a secret unreleased episode where
we're literally fucking goingdeep as

Track 1 (58:37):
Oh no.

Nik (58:39):
and uh and it will never be it will

Track 1 (58:41):
Damn.
Well, there's some kind ofcosmic, cosmic cancer for that.
so, so you, you just touched onsomething is, um, my thing is
like, you know, to, to talkabout vulnerability, talk about
authenticity.
that's something that honestly,like Instagram threads and this
whole entire process to dosongs.
It's something that I realized.
is another huge aspect of likemy public persona that I was

(59:03):
missing and it's something thatI'm starting to kind of like
come out and say and like I'mand talk about openly and like
it's it's wild because I, whatI'm realizing is that this whole
pursuit that I'm doing,everything that I'm doing is
trying to be creative.
It's almost me really trying toprove to myself that I'm not a

(59:24):
loser.
And I, how, and the way that Iexplain that is I'm trying to do
it in like a healthy way where,again, before I was trying to do
it in an unhealthy way.
People need to like me so I canthen get the data to then
realize that I'm worth Existingand, you know, having friends
and receiving love and all thosethings.
And what I realized through thiskind of process is that I needed

(59:50):
a tune up on my own self love.
Right.
And that's what this is reallyall about.
Ultimately, it comes back towhat we're saying about trust.
And it's like this whole processof putting this music out was
very fun, but it was also veryscary for me because it was like
the The voices of you're notworth it.

(01:00:10):
You're a piece of shit.
All the times you ever fucked upin your life, those were real.
And those were valid.
And everybody thinks that aboutyou forever and nothing you can
ever, I mean, dude, like two,those were the voices that I was
up against when I was fuckingdragging in splice samples,
like, dude, it's fucking crazy,violent, what we inflict upon

(01:00:34):
ourselves in our own, Story wetell ourselves and our inner
dialogue about ourselves and theway we talk about ourselves in
our minds.
And especially if we're creativepeople, right?
Because there's something aboutbeing creative that we're
attempting to fill some kind oflack of love gap via doing
something to then barter for ourlove from others.

(01:00:57):
And that was something that Irealized I had a huge issue
with.
And that's why.
Through all this and having thatconversation with myself and
trying to defeat that and tryingto really because you'll never
defeat it But trying to get ahold get a grip of that like
relationship with myselfStarting to talk about that
publicly and say hey, I've beendown to the depths I've hit rock
bottom of hating myself ofpartying of making an ass out of

(01:01:18):
myself when I was drunk allthose things came alongside with
the desire for me to proveBasically, when the negativity
takes over, you prove to theworld that those negative things
you feel about yourself arereal.
Right?
That's where the self sabotagecomes in.
I'm a piece of shit.
No one likes me.
I'm not worth it.

(01:01:38):
I'm an imposter.
You go get drunk and you blackout and you say something
terrible.
And you do something fuckingannoying.
You just become awful.
That is how those thingsmanifest itself.
And it's like that, for me,talking about that on Instagram
threads, And going, yo, I was apiece of shit.
Uh, I fucking hated myself.
I fucking hate, I think I wasnever going to make it, but if I
can be able to do it, despiteall of these barriers that I've

(01:02:00):
set up for myself, then somebodyelse that's maybe younger, more
capable, more excited, you guyscan do it too.
You

Nik (01:02:07):
Yeah.
I love, I love to hear thatbecause there is a bit of a
healing process available toyou, right?
We're just shining the light onhealing.
There is some darkness here.
There is a lack of self love.
There are some things that I'vedone and a lot of us bury that
down rather than just say, Hey,let's shine a big spotlight on
it and let's bring it to thesurface.
Because you know, what, what youresist persists when you start

(01:02:29):
to actually look at it, right.
And, and talk about it.
You know, that's why therapy isso effective.
I have, I have a quick coaching

Track 1 (01:02:37):
Sure.
Please do.
Please

Nik (01:02:39):
it.
Because you did say that I heardwhat you don't want to be you
said, you know, I don't want tobe a loser What is it that you
do want to be?

Track 1 (01:02:48):
It's almost like I'm trying, I'm trying to heal an
old version of me that I see ina lot of other people, I want to
be able to be a person that caninspire people.
I, I, I, now I feel like I've,I've kind of made peace with who
I currently am.
It's this extremely imperfect.
it's this imperfect person thatis, um, going to have to.

(01:03:09):
Accept in a positive way.
my past, what I am now and whatI potentially could be.
I just want to be able toinspire people.
I want to be able to inspirepeople with my story.
I want to be able to inspirepeople with my action.
And if that's the onlyinteraction that I have with
somebody, especially likewhether it's people I'm
coaching, Instagram threads andstuff.
I want them to not go, wow, thisguy is fucking so cool.

(01:03:29):
I want them to walk away, begoing, going, I.
Now have been given the license.
I hope I know I'm rambling hereBut if that was a bit of a cop
out feel free to feel free todrag me over the coals here
Because I because I'm I am downto go into that but you know But
that's kind of that's how I wantto be remembered I want to be
remembered as a guy said wowthat fucking guy can do it I can
fucking do it then I won missionaccomplished dude.

Nik (01:03:50):
Yeah, and I just want to remind you and reflect back that
you already are Doing that andyou already

Track 1 (01:03:57):
you.
I

Nik (01:03:58):
you're inspiring people with your threads with your
content with your music I'm youknow, you are the kind of person
that when you walk in the roomyou you change the energy of the
room and I know that you'reinspiring a lot of people by
hopping on this podcast todayand sharing your story.
That was so fucking fire I'm soSo excited to share this with
everybody, but, um, I appreciateyou so much for, for hopping on

(01:04:21):
man.
And like, you really, truly,truly are an inspiration.
There's a reason that I reachedout to you specifically because
I see you, I saw what you'redoing.
I was like, yes, this is exactlythe kind of energy, the kind of
mindset, the kind of person thatI want to have on this podcast
because people need to hear thatstory and they need to, you
know, be able to, to really, uh,experience just this energy that
you're bringing, man.
So thank you so much for hoppingon today.

(01:04:43):
You're the

Track 1 (01:04:43):
I'm so grateful to have done this bro.
Thank you so much And if there'sone thing that I could say to
people that are listening, it'slike dude Go make garbage, go
make, the minute You're donelistening to this, go make meme,
meme joke level fucking crap,because there's going to be
somebody else that is moretalented than you, knows more
people in the industry than you,that is not doing shit out of

(01:05:07):
fear.
How do you go and compete withthose people?
You make garbage until itbecomes a treasure.
That's it.
So I hope everybody listening tothat can take that to heart and
crack Ableton open and let'sfucking go today.
Let's go.

Nik (01:05:21):
Let's fucking go.