JUSTIN JAY - How To Get Away With Making Multiple Genres

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Justin Jay is a truly eclectic artist who is able to bounce around between different scenes and genres by following the most important rule of being an artist… HAVING FUN!

In this episode we talk about to silence the inner critic inside our head, the importance of having community and how having fun should be every artists’ North Star.

Follow Justin here:
https://www.instagram.com/justinjaymusic

Follow Nik Cherwink here:
https://www.instagram.com/nikcherwink

And visit my site to join the mailing list or book a free coaching call:
https://www.nikcherwink.com

Episode Transcript

Justin (00:00):
the most important thing to optimize for is very clear in

(00:03):
my mind.
It is to focus on having funwhile making music.
If you are not, Having funmaking music, you are not going
to make your best stuff.
If you're not having fun makingmusic, you're gonna want to stop
doing it.
Cause, if it's not fun, there'sreally no point.

Nik (00:32):
what's up, everybody?
Welcome to the Headliner MindsetPodcast.
Today's guest is a musicproducer and DJ who is truly
pushing the boundaries of genresand not letting anyone put him
in a box.
He's playing shows all over theworld, collaborating with all
different types of artists, andobviously having a ton of fun in
the process.
Not only that, he is also reallygiving back to the community by

(00:53):
mentoring other artists andhelping them navigate both the
creative and professional sidesof their journey.
This is Justin J.
Thank you, bro.
I, I pride myself on trying to,you know, put together a good
intro for somebody, you know, wegot to hype you up a little bit
before we start theseconversations.

Justin (01:15):
and also cause, Dude, I feel like, were you, were you
ever an MC?
Cause I feel like you would beamazing at

Nik (01:22):
Actually, you know what?
In high school, I did do acouple MCs of like the rally,
you know, like the pep rally,like the guy that went out and

Justin (01:29):
Oh really?

Nik (01:30):
Now that I think about that, like 20 years

Justin (01:32):
That's huge! Damn, for the resume, that's

Nik (01:36):
you're, you're like, you're like episode, I think 70 or
something.
So I've done this a couple oftimes.
We're getting, we're gettingbetter at it.
Yeah, but, But thank you.

Justin (01:44):
Crazy.
But Yeah, of course, dude.

Nik (01:48):
hell.
Yeah, man.
Well, I'm really happy to haveyou here.
I'm excited to dive in and, um,I would love to start off by
just really learning a littlebit about you and your journey
and your story.
Like, let's just start off withhow long have you been producing
and what got you intoproduction?
When did this journey begin foryou?

Justin (02:04):
So I started making music in high school.
You know, I grew up playingclassical piano.
Um, and when all of my friendswere starting to play in bands,
Like in middle school, I waslike, that looks so fun and so
cool, but no one neededclassical piano in their like,
you know, Red Hot Chili Pepperscover band.

(02:24):
And when I found out that youcould make music on the
computer, I was like, dude, thisis, this is crazy.
You can turn the keyboard intoany sound.
And, I had listened to Daft Punkand was, you know, a fan of
their music, but began justmessing around on Logic.
And towards the end of highschool, you know, I started

(02:48):
going to raves in L.
A.
and saw DJs and that was kind ofthe first time where I was able
to connect the dots and think,oh, so when I finish a song,
maybe that's what I would do.
I would DJ it and began DJing.
Uh, and I think a really pivotalmoment for me was, uh, I had a

(03:11):
friend, who was a year youngerthan me at my high school who
was also producing and hestarted sending his tracks out
to DJs and labels.
And he ended up getting a songsigned to a really cool label.
And so I thought, Oh, maybe Ishould do that too.
Put myself out there, send musicto DJs and stuff.

(03:33):
This is before Instagram.

Nik (03:35):
How long ago was this?
Like when was high school foryou?

Justin (03:39):
You know, I graduated in 2011 and, you know, Spring of my
senior year, I got on this grindof sending out my tracks to all
these, you know, labels, andnever heard back until my first
week of freshman year incollege.
And I heard back from myfavorite record label, my
favorite artist, Claude VonStroke.

(04:00):
And he wanted to sign a song Imade, and it was the most, like,
surreal moment of my entirelife, like getting a message
from him on SoundCloud.
While, you know, just likesomeone I've watched every
YouTube interview, like was justcompletely enamored by his art
and what he was doing.
Um, and to then hear back fromhim and get to join the ranks of

(04:25):
like my favorite artists, onthis label, Dirty Bird, which is
crazy.
And I feel like that was the,uh, that was the beginning of my
journey.
So

Nik (04:33):
Yeah.
And I think it's important forpeople to hear, you know, that
was, you said 2011, that's over13 years ago, right?
Like, I think a lot of peopleare like, Man, I've been doing
this for like two years.
When am I going to have my, whenam I going to blow up, you know,
it's like, you know, it takes alittle bit of time, you know, it

(04:54):
takes a little bit of time tolike learn this craft and really
build a career for yourself.
So I, I love hearing that.
And also, you know, Just theimportance to of, you know, you
started shooting your shot.
You're right.
Just like, Hey, let me send thisout.
Let me see who, might beinterested in this and, um, and
shoot your shot, which I see alot of people, man, I see so
many people just like sitting ongreat music and not actually

(05:16):
like sending it out, like sendthat shit out to your favorite
DJ, send that out to yourfavorite record label.
You got nothing to lose.
Right.
So, um, you createdopportunities for yourself.

Justin (05:28):
I feel like that shooting your shot component is,
it's so insanely important,cause, and I feel like it's the
hardest part for so many people,cause we can just get lost in
perfectionism, being overlycritical of ourselves, and, You

(05:48):
know, really, it's just youholding yourself back and, it's
crazy.
I feel like, you know, I thinkwe're in a time where there's so
many ways to shoot your shot nowwhere it's, you know, you can
just upload something toSoundCloud or post videos on
social media, um, or DM yourfavorite artists directly.

(06:09):
So I feel like it's easierlogistically and technically,
but I think for those reasonsthat it's, it's really the
personal challenge within thatcan be the most difficult.
And I feel that way even myself,uh, you know, around like this
album that I'm about to release,like these, these challenges

(06:30):
with like our self judgment,it's like going to the gym and
you start lifting.
Some weights and you getstronger and then you go to
heavier weights and then you'reback to being a beginner.
You know, I feel like it's alifelong journey grappling with
these things.
So I feel like wherever peopleare at, whether they're just
beginning or they're over 10years into their career, you're
going to find these momentswhere you might be questioning

(06:52):
what you're doing, questioningthe quality of your work or
your, sort of like self worth asan artist.
And I feel like you just to say,okay.
And just shoot your shot and putyourself out there and let go.
That's it.

Nik (07:06):
Where, do you see some of that self doubt show up for
yourself being, you know, over10 years into the game and, and,
and being established?
I love hearing you say that,like, this still happens even,
even when you're actually, youknow, out there and you're, you
know, you're touring and you'rehaving success.
Like what comes up for you?

Justin (07:26):
It's so insane to like you're catching me at a moment
where I totally feel back in thebeginner's chair, you know, like
I feel like it's so cool to befeeling like, oh my God, this
thing is scary.
This thing is vulnerable becausethroughout my entire musical

(07:46):
journey, whenever something isscary or feels vulnerable, it's
always, there's always somethingreally rewarding and satisfying
on the other side of that.
Even just when you can feelscared or intimidated and you
don't allow those feelings tostop you, even just by doing the
damn thing, it doesn't evenmatter what happens.
I just feel like, I feel like inlife there's so many moments

(08:09):
where there's something we wantto try to do.
And we don't even try, becausethere's a voice in our head that
says it's not going to work out,like you're not good enough,
that sort of thing.
And when we can completely justmove past those voices and just
give something our best effortand go for it.
Um, it's really empowering evenwhether it's because maybe the

(08:32):
thing you wanted happens.
Maybe it doesn't.
Maybe there's some unintendedbeautiful thing that ends up
happening as a result.
So, in terms of what, you asked,you know, what I'm, what I'm,
where I'm at currently as ofright now, August 23rd, you
know, I am about to release thisalbum that.
Largely was written three years

Nik (08:54):
Mm.

Justin (08:55):
and it's kind of crazy cause this is, you know, I think
for me, albums in general are mylittle, they've been in my mind
sort of a corner of my artistrywhere I really try to Paint the
most, like, authentic picture ofmyself and put out my most

(09:19):
vulnerable music.
And, you know, I think the pasttwo albums I've done, I wrote
them and released them mostly ina year.
Maybe two years.
And this one, with it being abit longer, I feel like I'm
experiencing a little bit moreof a delay.

(09:41):
Almost like a mismatch betweenwhere I'm currently at versus
the snapshot that was taken whenthis album was made.
And I think whenever you makemusic, it's a snapshot of a
time, inescapably.
What you're feeling, what you'reinspired by, all these things
are almost like captured in themusic.

(10:03):
And I think this is somethingthat's really important.
Just tricky to navigate is likeas artists, we are always
evolving as people.
We're always evolving.
We're always growing up,experiencing new things,
changing perspectives, etcetera.
And I think with when it comesto music, when you have that old

(10:25):
snapshot and you've grown up,you can feel this, almost like a
dissonance between That pictureversus who you are right now.
And it's like, I feel like it'svery much like a photograph to
be like, that's not what I looklike though.
Like, I don't want people to seethat.
Cause that's not me right now.
That's me in the past.

(10:45):
And I think the reality is like,it's still you and you have to
just let go.
And I think with the photoanalogy, I feel like there's so
many times where, especiallylike growing up to being like
awkward and insecure about like,You know, just like appearances,
like, I remember, you know,there'd be times where like my
dad would take my photo and belike, dad, why are you doing

(11:08):
this?
Like stop.
And then like, you know, 10years later you look back and
you're like, oh, that's so cute.
Like, well, you know, likeawkward middle school photo or
whatever.
And I just think you got to justlet go, put yourself out there
and acknowledge that sometimesit can just feel a little weird
and that's okay.
You know?
Does that

Nik (11:26):
No, a hundred percent, because I hear this so often
from artists, where, especiallywhen you're dealing with labels,
where it's like, I wrote atrack, and then it took me like,
Three months or four months toNavigate, you know chatting with
labels and like, you know havingthose conversations and now the

(11:46):
track got signed But now itdoesn't come out for another six
months or another nine monthsand so a lot of times you're
putting out a song yeah that youwrote a year ago and then you're
like I'm not even making thesame music anymore.
And so I see a lot of peoplestruggle with that.
You're like, Oh, I kind of don'teven want to put this out.
It doesn't feel like a goodreflection of me and my sound
and where I'm at.
And so it's a very common, it'sa very common thing, but I, you

(12:10):
know, we are always going to bethe most judgmental towards
ourselves.
You know what I mean?
Like we're always going to bethe hardest on ourself where
it's like, yeah, maybe I don't.
Resonate with that song as muchanymore.
My creative, uh, impulse ispulling in a different
direction, but there areprobably millions of people out

(12:31):
there that are going to lovethis shit.
You know what I mean?
That has actually nothing to dowith me, I like, I like to see
music and art almost as, uh, Ialways say it's like, these are
like your, your children, theseare your creative babies that
you were called upon to givebirth to, you know, like you

(12:52):
are, you're the vessel and thiscreative energy just got to be
birthed through you.
And I, and I, and also like inthe moment, a lot of times just
even in one studio session.
You might make a song and thenbe like, Oh, that's like, that's
garbage.
You know, like that sucks.
Like I didn't, I didn't producesomething quote unquote good
today, but I always say like,yo, even if you have like an

(13:13):
ugly baby, you should still loveit.
You know what I mean?
No, one's going to be like, Ohmy God.
Like, Oh my, my baby is so ugly.
Like even, even Ugly babiesstill get loved by their
parents.
And I think every artist reallygets to just love whatever you
make, in whatever stage thatthat's in, you know, to still
like, give it some, you know,give it some real love.
Even if maybe I've outgrown thisand I'm in a, in a different

(13:33):
place, like, yeah, let me reallylike, be proud of this and love
this.
Yeah.

Justin (13:45):
but you know, I think the, I feel like what a lot of
people grapple with too is, it'slike having a kid and one,
you're writing a song and youwant it to be a huge banger.
And then it starts going acertain direction, and it's
turning out to be a more, like,emotional, beautiful song.
And it's kind of like, I thinkof the idea as, like, having a

(14:07):
kid and being like, You gottaplay football! And your kid is
like, I wanna do ballet! Andyou're, you really should just
let your kid, you know, findtheir own journey.
And I feel like with each song,you wanna let it be what it
wants to be.
Because, you know, it's likewith the ballet example, it's
like, maybe that kid would thenbe even better at football, you
know, like in some, uh,unexpected way, you know?

(14:28):
Um, I think the, songs, they allhave a life of their own, and I
feel like the more detached wecan be with just letting them be
what they want to be, thebetter.
And there's often justunexpected beauty that comes
from that process of justletting go.

Nik (14:49):
Yeah.

Justin (14:50):
It's crazy.

Nik (14:51):
I love that we're digging into this.
Kind of common challenge of, ofour relationship with our art.
You know, I think that that'salways going to be there.
As you said, we're always goingto be evolving and changing and
growing and unfolding, and it'sa, it's a beautiful process.
It's a complicated process.
What would you say right now, asyou know, you're, you're a full

(15:14):
time artist, you're playingshows, you're touring, you're
putting out albums.
What are some of the otherchallenges that you come up
against at this stage in yourcareer?

Justin (15:24):
I mean, I think where I am currently at, I'd really say
like this album has been One ofthe biggest challenges that I've
grappled with musically in along time, um, it's really
ironic because over the pastthree years I've put out
hundreds of songs.
Like, I think I put out over ahundred songs In 2021, maybe

(15:46):
like I was just releasing somuch music.
Some stuff was brand new.
Some stuff was several yearsold, but it was just very free
with it.
And it's so funny to go likeliterally from that mindset of
just like no perfectionism, justlike fuck it to then the most
perfectionism ever.
And a lot of songs in this albumare like on version, you know,

(16:08):
40 and that type of thing.
And many of the songs.
I've tried to like redo andcreate like a new version and
then being like, fuck, I guess Ijust have to let go and release
the original version.
give us some context, I feellike, you know, it's, there's
all this like interesting, uh,all these interesting parallels

(16:29):
between the process I'mexperiencing, finishing this
album and what the album isabout.
So it's all kind of on brand,but This album, it's called You
Are The One, and it's about whenyou're in love and love doesn't
work out the way you want it to,and grappling with the

(16:51):
turbulence emotionally andultimately trying to find the
positivity, the challenges.
And the You Are The One name ata glance, it It looks like it
could be, uh, an album dedicatedto someone that I'm in love
with.
But at the end of the journey,you realize, like, when it

(17:15):
doesn't work out, the thing thatyou need to still be grounded in
is that love for yourself andthat focus on yourself because
you can't change how someoneelse feels, but you can always
work on yourself often.
choose where you focus yourenergy.

(17:35):
And, you know, I think it's,there's a song in this album
that I actually released.
Yeah.
Like three years ago calledwhere's the plur and the, it
really is the thesis of thewhole album.
And it's how am I supposed tolove you if you don't even love
you?
Um, and it's kind of like, ifyou really don't love yourself,
then how, how can you expect tofind the right person, you know?

(17:59):
So I think, and I think thatidea of self love is also,
there's there's something,something to it, because it's
not just about like, it's notlike a narcissistic, arrogant
sort of energy, but rather like,you know, we can be so hard on
ourselves, so critical ofourselves, and to, you know,
forgive ourselves for the areasthat we fell short.
And I think also to, you know,accountability for the areas

(18:22):
that we can improve upon.
And I feel like those are a lotof the themes that the songs in
the album speak to.
It's just interesting because Ifeel like when it comes to
making music, it's so much ofthe same energy, like being self
critical about things.
Also, maybe clinging to thingsthat you don't need to cling to,

(18:43):
you know, I think sometimes wedon't want to learn, we don't
wanna step outside of ourperspectives.
And I feel like that's somethingI've experienced with this album
too, where there was a pointwhere this album had like 30
different genres and, you know,I went to some very close
friends and was like, gimme somehonest feedback.
'cause I feel like I've lostsubjectivity.
And they were like, this album'sall over the place.

(19:06):
You have like 80%.
club music that's insanelyeclectic.
But then you have 20 percentlike indie, like alternative
rock songs and that are like 100BPM.
And it just like, it's soconfusing and they were like,
what do you want this to be?
And I was like, you know, tryingto figure it out.

(19:27):
And the advice that weultimately landed on was to
focus on it.
Just being, about dance musicand we'll save the indie stuff
for, for the next album.
but this idea of like, you know,having to, you know, maybe
there's things that I wasclinging to that weren't in
service of like the thesis ofthis album and having to be

(19:49):
like, you know what, I gotta beopen to some change.
And sometimes it takes someexternal guidance to then like
help you regain that objectivityand Ultimately, it's all about,
as an artist, it's ultimatelyabout how you feel.
And I'm so, so grateful for.
You know, my friends like DannyGoliger, Benny Bridges, who are

(20:09):
longtime collaborators whohelped me with a lot of the
songs in this album, but thenalso my girlfriend, Emily, who,
has really good taste andintuition.
And so yeah, I feel like allthese things, whether it's like
self help, like trying to getthrough life and like romantic
life or trying to grapple withlike, The vulnerability of
making music and sharing it withothers, they're so similar in my

(20:33):
opinion.

Nik (20:34):
you said that you put out a hundred songs in 2021.
That's first off, hats off toyou.
That's impressive.
That's wild.
seems to be.
carefree attitude around that oflike, just fucking put it out,
which I think is socounterintuitive to the way that

(20:54):
a lot of people are releasingmusic where they're like, I've
got the song, and I've got tobuild the perfect marketing
campaign around it.
And I've got to give it thishuge, huge push.
So I'm really curious about, onthe one hand, you're just kind
of doing whatever the fuck youwant, putting out music, uh, a
hundred songs a year.
What made you decide to thenwant to put out an album rather

(21:15):
than just like keep throwing outtracks like you were?

Justin (21:19):
Yeah, well, it's funny, because I've been sitting on
this album for a while.
Like, a lot of, like, theskeleton of it was written, like
I said, three years ago.
Um, but I feel like I just havea split in my artistic identity,
When it comes to dance music andclub music, songs for DJing, I

(21:40):
just really don't feel that muchcreative stress around what I
do.
Like, I just feel like it's justdance music.
It's just music for DJing anddancing.
Like who cares?
Like who cares what BPM it is,this or that.
There's obviously like, therecan be more strategy, but I
think especially in 2021, 2020,2022.

(22:05):
Through COVID and the timeafter, I feel like there was so
much time spent not on the dancefloor that I just felt like the
scene overall felt like in avery free place to just like, do
whatever you want.
Interestingly enough, I feellike there's actually, I'm
really excited about a lot ofthe developments in the various
dance music scenes that I'minspired by now.

(22:26):
But.
When it comes to my album music,where I'm singing, I'm writing
lyrics.
Uh, there's, it's like, it's analbum.
There's like just this greaterartistic pressure.
It's really just like how muchpressure you put on yourself.
Like, that's the onlydifference.
Like, it's so funny.

(22:46):
Nothing changes except what'sgoing on internally.
And those internal conversationscan make everything so not fun
and so annoying when you'relike, this isn't good enough.
This isn't me enough.
This isn't where I want toposition myself you know, in
terms of like marketing andbranding and associations.

(23:08):
And it's all those thoughts Ifeel like are so unproductive
for good art and an enjoyablecreative process.
So I just feel like it's soimportant to catch yourself when
those thoughts are coming up andtry your best to.
You know, Just move past themand not allow them to get your
head all jumbled.
Does that make

Nik (23:28):
a thousand percent.
I mean, this is the headlinermindset podcast.
And I think the foundation of,you know, not only success, but
fulfillment and happiness in, inlife, not just being an artist,
but just the, We have this voicegoing on in our head all the
time and uh, sometimes it can bereally powerful and affirming.

(23:49):
Most of the time it's notthough, most of the time it's
kind of shitting all overourselves.
Right?
So, as a coach, my backgroundis, is, uh, I'm a professionally
certified life coach.
I've been life coaching peopleforever.
It just so happened pretty mucheverybody I know are artists and
so that's who I specialize inworking with.
And, and that.
mindset, that narrative, thatinner dialogue is, um, you know,

(24:13):
it can be really brutal intaking this path, you know, it
comes with its own sort of setof, um, yeah, just beliefs and
narratives that are unique inparticular to the artist's path.
So, you know, I hundred percent.
Understand that it's the largemajority of the conversations
that I'm having every day withpeople is like really looking at

(24:34):
what is that voice saying?
And is it serving you?
How can we improve it?
How can we catch it and evennotice it in the first place?
For you, what, what kind of,what kind of tips and advice do
you have for somebody who hasthat loud inner critic going on?
Because as we know, it can bethe biggest, the biggest,

(24:55):
blocker to creativity and reallysuccess in any way.
So how does one get through thatmean little sabotaging voice
that can be so loud sometimes?
Yeah,

Justin (25:11):
for me, I'm gonna flip it back on you after I answer
because I'm curious what youradvice is, but Ultimately, you
just need to say fuck it and doit.
And I think creating as muchexternal accountability can
sometimes be really helpful whenyou are really struggling
yourself.
Cause like, sometimes you canjust like, force yourself, but

(25:31):
sometimes you need that date onthe calendar.
Sometimes you need that otherperson to help keep you you
know, staying positive when youare questioning everything.
Sometimes, you know, I thinkcommunity is really big.
Finding people, you know, whocan, help you get through it, I
think for me is that is theultimate, you know, thing to

(25:56):
fall back on when you, whennothing else is working for
yourself.
Um, and when it comes to art, Imean, So much great music is not
made in isolation by yourself.
And, you know, I think for me,it's like, you know, I would do,
I had a bunch of, you know,mixing sessions with my friend,

(26:16):
Danny, who's a great engineerand half the time we would just
be talking about music and justbe, you know, like, just like,
getting inspired.
And, a quarter of the time wouldbe like.
him tweaking stuff.
And then the other quarter ofthe time it'd be like me just
tweaking stuff, but he's theremaking sure I'm doing it the

(26:37):
way, you know, making sure I'mjust doing it like almost like a
study buddies.
Sometimes I feel like when it'sreally, when things are really
hard, I just feel like you don'tneed to experience things by
yourself.
And that's my advice really.
Like, and then, and then I thinkalso, Playing tricks within your
own head to lower the pressure,like, if I'm starting a song

(26:59):
from scratch and I'm feeling alot of judgment or writer's
block, I'll intentionally justgo out to like, make the
stupidest song, or make theworst song, and then just not
give a fuck.
Um, I don't know, like, justthinking about how little all of
this actually matters,cosmically, like, none of this
shit matters, so like, let'sjust You know, like, like, even

(27:20):
the idea of like, Ugh, I'm so boI'm so bored of this album.
I wanna make the next one.
To do that, I have to just like,put this one out, or else I'm
never gonna be able to move on.
So I'd rather just put it out sothat I can move on to the next
thing.
Like, all those little internalthings I, think can help.
How about you?
What's your advice for

Nik (27:36):
I like, I like that last part.
And you said something earlierabout like, it's just fucking
dance music, you know, like wemake stuff up in our mind to be
so big.
Like this song coming out islike, it's so big and it's so
important and, and not to like,minimize your art, but it makes
me think about where, where Istarted my career was working at

(27:58):
Capitol Records and I was theassistant for one of the big
executives there.
And we were doing, you know,we're putting out big fucking
albums with a lot of money onthe line and, and doing some
really big stuff.
And it was a, it could be a verystressful environment.
And I remember that was onething that, you know, my, my
boss would, would have to remindthe team.
She'd be like, look, you guys,like, we're not saving lives

(28:19):
here.
We're just putting out records,right?
We're not like brain surgeonsthat have, has like a life on
the line.
We're literally putting out afucking album right now.
Like, it's not, it's not.
It's not life or death and itwas like, Oh, cause you know, it
just, our brain can get so crazyand it can get so out of
control, you know?
And so, you know, for, for me, Ithink there's two things and one

(28:43):
you really nailed, which is it'sGetting support and connecting
with other people.
There's like the work to do withother people and there's the
work to do with yourself.
This is why I'm a coach isbecause I love being able to be
that voice for other people.
When we all have our own innercritic, our own voice of self
doubt, it's like the littledevil on your shoulder.

(29:04):
I call it the Gremlin.
The Gremlin is just fuckingchirping away sometimes.
And so to have another voice inyour corner can be really,
really helpful.
That's why I love coaching.
I get to be that kind ofcheerleader, that powerful
voice.
And, and to, you know, it's likewhatever you feed is going to
grow.
And so if you keep feeding thatvoice, if you keep giving it
attention, that voice is goingto get louder and we can really

(29:25):
spiral out, but there's also apositive voice there.
We also have our own innerhigher self, you know, that's
there.
And, and it's this kind ofinternal battle back and forth.
So, Feeding that, havingexternal support, having
community.
I mean, that's one of thecoolest things of this year is,
is I started doing groupcoaching, so I have a group
coaching program.
I have a community.

(29:45):
I've got 50 people in a discordthat every day they're popping
in.
We've got a wins channel.
We've got a support channel.
We've got a feedback on mytracks channel and just seeing
everybody support each other.
Oh my God, it's been the bestthing ever.
If you're not in a community ofsome kind, like go get fucking
plugged in because especially asan artist, I think the reason

(30:06):
why I do a lot of what I do isbecause I also, I grew up as an
artist, but then I also reallygot into sports.
And so.
And I had, I had teammates and Ihad people that were there next
to me that we were workingtogether and, you know, helping
each other.
A lot of artists don't havethat.
Especially like you said, you'renot in a band, right?
You don't have three other,dudes that you're making music
with most of the time.
You're like, a lot of people areby themselves in their bedroom

(30:28):
being a fucking hermit locked inon the computer.
And it's like, yeah.
That's kind of the most mentallyunhealthy thing you actually can
do is to isolate yourself sowhether it's, a coach,
obviously, you know, therapy,just having somebody to talk to
if you're having, you know,real, mental health challenges
and issues, talking to people,talking to friends, having
community, that part of it is sobig.
The other part of it is like,Really training that voice and,

(30:52):
and understanding that the way Idescribe it is, you know,
that's, that's, it's your egoand look at it like a puppy dog
is like.
If you don't train the puppy,it's going to piss and shit all
over your house and tear up yourcouch.
You know what I mean?
Like it's gonna, it's gonna,it's gonna cause some damage,
but we can train it.

(31:13):
Just recognizing it like thatvoice.
It's just a part of you.
It's a part of you.
Just like.
Your it serves a purpose.
Your heart is there to pumpblood through your body.
Your stomach is there to digestfood.
The ego, that part of your brainis there.
It's there to protect you.
It's there to just like, watchout to make sure you don't
experience any psychological,emotional or physical pain.
It's just like I'm looking outfor danger.

(31:34):
If I put this track out, I mightget rejected.
People might make fun of me.
So don't do it.
Right.
So making friends with thelearning, Why it's they're
starting to develop arelationship with it and like
for me, like I'm, I'm a gym guyand so I'm looking at like,
okay, if, if I go to the gym anhour a day and I put in this
work, I get the results thatthere's a physical result of

(31:55):
that the same way.
If you put that work in onyourself of like every day I sit
down and I practice gratitude, Ipractice visualization, I
practice affirmations.
I do journal writing, I domeditation.
Like there's so many tools.
That are there that you canliterally like train the brain
to actually be speaking in amore positive way.
Like you got to train it.

(32:16):
If you just leave it up tochance, most likely what we're
doing is, you know, we're justgetting on social media.
We're seeing everybody elsekilling it.
There's shit in the news that'stelling us it's doom and gloom.
You know, there's so muchexternal forces.
That are pulling us in, in, in adifferent direction.
So we have to take control andliterally like condition and
train that internal mentalprogramming to like, be nice to

(32:40):
ourselves rather than be mean toourselves, you know?
All right, you guys, if you arelooking to get support on your
artist journey and want to getplugged into an amazing
community, I'm getting ready tolaunch the next round of the
Headliner Mindset group coachingprogram on Monday, October 7th.
This includes eight weeks ofvideo lessons, exercises, and
not one, but two group coachingcalls every week to really help

(33:02):
you level up your mindset.
Your energy, your timemanagement, breakthrough
creative blocks, figure out yourbrand, and ultimately get around
a bunch of other hungry, badassartists that are getting after
their goals.
The best part is once you finishthose first eight weeks, you are
still part of the community.
This really is a family thatwe've built here.
So you still get lifetime accessto one of those weekly calls

(33:23):
plus monthly guest Q and A'sthat I do with my artists and
industry homies.
And we also have a privatediscord that is popping every
day.
I'm telling you guys, thisprogram is stacked.
Now I only take on 10 people ata time for this because I like
to keep the groups intimate andmake sure that everyone gets
attention and support.
So it will fill up.
Now, if you want to grab one ofthose spots or just want to get

(33:44):
more info, send me a DM onInstagram and you can also check
out the link in the show notes,which is nickcherwink.
com slash headliner mindset.
And that has all the informationthere.
Now, whether it's the headlinermindset community or someone
else's, please make sure thatyou find some dope people to
support you on your artistjourney.
This is such an important pieceof the puzzle.
And I truly want you to not onlysucceed, but to also enjoy the

(34:07):
ride and be happy and fulfilledalong the way.
That's what it's all about.

Justin (34:13):
I feel like we have a lot in common.
I, you know, what you're doingwith your community, fully
relate.
like so beautiful and Yeah, likewith my teaching, I do like the
group, the group classes too.
And it's just insane becausefirst off, I mean, I've I become
friends with the people that Iget to meet and be on this
adventure with together.

(34:33):
And it's just

Nik (34:34):
best.

Justin (34:35):
it's so crazy.
I mean, many of my biggest songsthe past couple of years have
been songs that I made with likefriends that I made who were
students and then we're like,you know, ended up making music
together.
Um, So fun.
but to see like, you know,people in that community become
friends with each other, startlabels with each other, start

(34:57):
throwing events together, makemusic together, songs that get
signed, you know, um, dude, andit's so weird because dude, like
I feel like I started doingthese classes maybe like four
years ago.
And this is like the craziestpart.
Like, I have students who arenow getting booked at festivals
and beginning a tour.

(35:18):
I, I played a festival, it wasactually my first time playing a
festival in Europe, in Croatia.
And the next week, one of myformer students played a sick
festival at the same location.
And dude, I have an, I haveanother student who played, Um,
I played outside lands last yearand she played outside lands

(35:38):
this summer and she just gotpicked up by my agent.
So we have the same bookingagent and it's just funny
because like all theseincredible things are happening
to so many of my, formerstudents, shout out dusty Dan
and Jackie Hollander, who I wasjust speaking of, but so many
others too.
It's, it's crazy and to seetheir success.
And then right now.
I'm actually taking a littlebreak from teaching to finish up

(36:01):
my album and do all these thingsand it's just so, it's so like,
interesting how you can learn somuch and grow so much as an
artist, but then be back in thebeginner's, you know, like,
chair, I guess, for, you know,for lack of a better word, and
being like, fuck, now can I walkthe walk?
Can I, can I, you know, do whatI'm preaching?

(36:23):
You know, it's,

Nik (36:24):
exactly like you said earlier, it's just you're at a
different level.
It's the same kind of beginners,questioning of like self doubt,
what the fuck is going on?
But it's because I'm at playinga different level of the video
game now, right?
I already, I, I, I beat the lastcouple and that's the thing I
think it's important for us torealize is like, yeah.
Fear is never gonna go away.

(36:45):
Self doubt is never gonna goaway.
Because, if we are Committed toour growth.
We're going to keep puttingourselves in challenging
situations.
We're going to keep leveling upWe're going to keep trying new
things and so with that comesUncertainty imposter syndrome is
great.
That means you're stepping intoa room that you've never fucking
been in before hell Yeah, it'seither that or you play safe and

(37:08):
you play small and you stay inthe rooms that you've already
been in So Changing ourrelationship with fear and self
doubt and you know, these thingsthat we think are so bad and
actually seeing is like, no,this is good.
Oh, this is scary.
This is uncomfortable.
You feel like you're, you know,you're getting stretched right
now.
Hell yeah, you're going in theright direction.
Get excited about that.

(37:28):
You know, it's the same thingfor me too.
I have these moments where I'mlike, Oh my God, I've been
Invested in my personaldevelopment for 15 years and I
am sitting here like Spiralingout of control like I have no
fuck.
You know what I mean?
Like I've never done that butI'm like, wait a minute Oh, I'm
like, 700 yards ahead of like,you know where I used to be and
I'm just I'm just playing adifferent game Now it's it's

(37:49):
it's bigger and it's differentand it's also still Just the
beginning, you know, so likewelcoming the the uncertainty of
you know of the whole journey

Justin (37:59):
100%.
100%.
And I think like, when youdiscover the limits of your
comfort zone, like where you'reactually beginning to feel
uncomfortable, I feel likethat's the best place to, that's
where you real, comfortable.
Learning happens where realgrowing happens.
And I feel like I mean that bothinternally, as well as

(38:24):
externally, you know, where, youdo something that seems really
scary and then you do it andthen you realize, wait, I can
keep on doing this thing.
And I've always wanted to dothis.
Like I felt the same way five,uh, no, maybe longer, maybe like
closer to eight years ago when Istarted singing at my shows and
recording my voice, that was sofricking scary.

(38:47):
And like, I would have like, youknow, panic attacks around,
performing and being like.
This is so vulnerable.
And then I did it and then itbecame the single most
gratifying aspect of my artistrywas like writing songs and
saying, and yeah, I mean, Ithink also like one other thing,

(39:08):
I feel like the gym analogy isso useful too, because, for me,
I think these will be, this islike my first time releasing
music with me singing on itsince my last album, which was
2019.
So that's like five years.
And.
You know, I think with that,it's like if you don't go to the
gym, you can get

Nik (39:26):
yeah,

Justin (39:27):
In regards to music, it doesn't mean you're starting
from scratch, but I just feellike you need to like give
yourself that permission forthings to feel differently or
feel a little rusty.
And it's not, it's not a badthing.
You know, you just got to let goand do

Nik (39:44):
brush the cobwebs off a little bit, you know?
Um, but, but yeah, you're not,you're not starting from, from
ground zero for sure.
I know that you're taking alittle break from teaching, but
I'd love to hear more about, theprogram that you run.
What is it that you help peoplewith when you're teaching and
doing your classes?

Justin (40:01):
Yeah, it's so much fun.
Um, I do pretty much a monthlong, boot camp where I teach
people how to make music.
And the funny thing about it isI, Allow both beginners and
advanced producers into the sameclass.
Because I just have this likebeginner's mindset approach and

(40:21):
there's times where people whoare brand new absolutely
destroy.
And sometimes people who aremore experienced it can be more
of a challenge for them becausethere's like maybe things that
need to be unlearned and.
More things that when you'reexperienced, you might cling to
things that you might not needto.

(40:44):
cling on to.

Nik (40:45):
Mm.

Justin (40:47):
basis of the class.
Just let's make some music.
But the irony is so much of thetime spent is really grappling
with internal issues.
Issues like self judgment,perfectionism, because that's,
you know, like making music on atechnical level is so easy.
But grappling with the selfjudgment and all these other

(41:08):
things can be really, reallydifficult.
And I think it can be difficultto tackle those things.
watching a YouTube video on howto use a compressor.
So, um, but yeah, everythingthat I do is group classes.
Cause I feel like it's all aboutthe community.
It's all about, groupaccountability, and supporting
each other, inspiring eachother.

(41:29):
And, um, then the past few yearsI've done, a six month, you
know, sort of artistsdevelopment.
Experience with people who dothe boot camp and just kind of
an opportunity for me to go evendeeper.
people who are really committedto grinding on their art and,

(41:51):
while having the most fun.
You know, I feel like for meit's all just about having fun
at the end of the day, but youknow, wanting to be with people
who are like, I love doing thisso much.
I don't want to stop.
I want to keep doing it.
But this year, there's been somereally interesting, um,
Developments within the sceneand I've been taking those in,
um, I've ended up going toEurope three times in the past

(42:12):
four months and going back againin October, potentially again,
even before the end of the year.
I've been learning so much thisyear, and I feel like I have a
lot, I have a lot to sort oftalk about.
And just a real quick bulletpoint, I spent the first half of
the year making a lot of musicwith dubstep producers and

(42:32):
artists.
And then the second half of theyear, being a lot more sort of
collaborating and spending a lotmore time with, like, European
techno, hard groove, Eurodance,trance, kind of artists and
that's been really inspiring.
And you know, just to sort offrame all of this COVID I think

(42:55):
was a time of like, Like, yo,let's explore everything and
let's fuck shit up.
And I feel like my album hasthat energy of just like, from
drum and bass to like, you know,deep house to gnarly techno to
trance, etc.
To UKG, I feel like we're comingfrom this period of time where

(43:16):
it was like, let's exploreeverything and chaos and like,
no rules, fuck rules.
To now being like, Refocusingand, yeah, like a different, a
different sort of energy.
And I feel like that's, I'vebeen on that journey, that self
discovery journey myselfthroughout this year.
And I feel like I'm finallyfiguring it out.

Nik (43:36):
think it's really cool to hear that you allow yourself To
go off and play and explore andalmost like kind of do some
research and development.
Let me, let me dabble over hereand play with some dubstep
producers.
Let me go to gear up.
Let me, you know, really expandyourself, which is one thing I
think a lot of artists actuallydon't give themselves permission

(43:58):
to do.
I think a lot of people are veryfocused on like, I got to find
my sound and, yeah, maybe to acertain extent.
And, and I'd love to kind of askyou about that.
But just to point out that maybebefore you find your sound,
there is a necessary stage ofplay and experimentation and

(44:18):
fuck around and find out and doa little bit of everything that
I just think a lot of artistsdon't actually allow themselves
to do.
And I'd love to get yourperspective because I really
like to emphasize this.
For anybody that is listening tomy podcast that has ever
listened to anything that hasever been said on here, please
understand there is no one rightway to do anything, at all.

(44:38):
Everybody that is doing this hasdone it in a different way.
And a lot of people have, youknow, climbed the mountaintop
from a different fucking trail,right?
So let's just, let's just startthere.
But I'm curious about yourperspective and especially
because you are coachingartists, let's say in that sort
of six month, artist developmentprogram.
Some people would recommendlike, Hey, find your lane.

(45:00):
When it comes to putting outtracks, like have some
consistency with the style ofwhat you're putting out so that
people can kind of get familiarwith what your lane is and what
your brand is.
And then there's another trainof thought, which is like, fuck
genres, do whatever you want.
You know what I mean?
I, I'm curious about like whereyou stand on that.

Justin (45:18):
This is a really, really great question.
Um, that I feel like all artistsgrapple with.
I feel like the most importantthing to optimize for is very
clear in my mind.
It is to focus on having funwhile making music.
If you are not, Having funmaking music, you are not going

(45:40):
to make your best stuff.
If you're not having fun makingmusic, you're gonna want to stop
doing it.
Cause, if it's not fun, there'sreally no point.
You know, if you're not enjoyingthe process, like, there's many
other things you could be doingwith your time that are also not
super enjoyable, that are moreproductive.

(46:01):
Like going to the gym.
I feel like if you're not havingfun making music, I'd rather you
like get in better shape or gooutside.
I feel like I could take that

Nik (46:10):
Even, on that point though, you know, it's like people might
look at me, you know, like, OhNick, like how do you stay so,
um, motivated to go to the gymor whatever.
And it's just like, I love goingto the gym.
Like I don't go to the gymbecause I have to, I don't go to
the gym because I'm trying toget this, this, this.
Ultimate physique or be in thebest shape of my life.
I'm just I fucking love goinglike it's one of my favorite
parts of the day.

(46:31):
It's enjoyable.
brings me joy, you know So Ithink that that makes a big
difference.
I wouldn't go all the time if Ididn't love it Yeah,

Justin (46:40):
percent.
But yeah, when it comes tomaking music, optimizing the
process that you have fun, Ithink the ways you optimize the
fun is by first off letting goof yourself.
Quality, not caring how good ornot good something is.
The second thing I feel like isjust giving yourself total
freedom to do whatever the fuckyou want to do.
If you are in a very chill mode,and you don't want to make club

(47:05):
music at all and you want tojust make some like hip hop beat
or like an ambient song, like doit, like lean into those things.
That might be a song on yourfirst album or your next album
that like.
Dude, like the most, one of themost streamed songs I have on my
Spotify, which has like reallyhelped like fund my label in

(47:25):
different moments, um, is atrack that's the intro of my
first album that doesn't havedrums.
I think it's my most streamedsong ever.
It's like amazing and I getmessages from people who really
love it.
I've gone to like yoga classeswhere like the instructor
doesn't know I'm there and playsit and I'm like no way That's so
cool.
It doesn't matter that it's nota house record and it doesn't,

(47:46):
no one Was offended by it.
It's like it doesn't matter.
You know, I never had one personbe like, how dare you?
As a house or dance producer,put a song in your album with no
drums.
Like no one cares, You know, soyou got to give yourself that
complete freedom to makewhatever you want in the moment.
Because if you don't, you'rejust not going to have fun and

(48:08):
you might miss out on a reallycool idea.
Even if it's an idea that like,is it's maybe it's not clear
what the context is for buildingyour career.
So let's shift to like thesecond part, which is like, what
do you do with your musicrelease wise and like the
strategy after you've optimizedhaving fun and now you maybe are
sitting on maybe an eclecticarray of different styles of

(48:28):
songs, I feel like early on inyour career, I feel like there's
always going to be two differentapproaches for what to do with
your music.
You can either self release yourmusic or send your music to
labels to, have other peoplerelease your music.
Let's start with that, sendingmusic out to people provides its
own filter mechanism.

(48:49):
So let's say you're an artistwho's like, just starting and
you make everything just forfun.
Like you're exploring drum andbass, you're exploring techno.
If you start sending all yourdemos out.
To various people.
There will be a process of like,Oh, these techno DJs are really
liking my techno songs.
Or like, whoa, I just got a drumand bass song signed.

(49:09):
Sometimes you could even get adrum and bass song signed to a
house label because theysecretly have been wanting to
put out some drum and bass.
Like, shit like that, I'veliterally experienced that with,
you know, I have like this onefriend, uh, former student who
got really into UKG and he endedup signing Beautiful bicep
inspired UKG songs that arereally emotive and lush to dirty

(49:33):
bird, which is like known aslike a booty shaken tech house
label.
But if you follow your heart,doors might open that you would
never even have imagined.
And I think what can then happenis when you put yourself out
there, shoot your shots, justkeep on following your heart.
But.
do it is making you happy in thestudio and then just being

(49:54):
curious.
They're like, Oh, I don't knowwhat's going to happen.
You can then see whatopportunities present themselves
and see where the wind carriesyou and you can decide, Oh, I
don't want to be carried in thatdirection at all.
Here's an example that I'veexperienced a little bit, over
the past couple of years.
So with one of my students, Imade a dubstep song just for

(50:15):
fun.
Cause I was like.
That'd be kind of funny.
It ended up getting signed to myfavorite record label at the
time, called Lobster Theremin,which has since got shut down.
But it was like the elite,techno, underground, like
experimental, Dance music labelin the UK.
They started the careers ofeveryone from like Ross from

(50:37):
Friends, DJ Seinfeld, then topeople like DJ Heartstring, D
Dan, Narcissus, like crazy liketrance techno artists.
They did X Club, like all theseamazing Super cool artists, who
do not do dubstep.
And yet, here's this label thatwants to sign a dubstep song.

(50:58):
My very first dubstep song thatI'd ever made, a song I made
with a student, a homie of mine.
The project is called Bayer andWaits.
The label ended up getting shutdown, but it was like a huge
dream come true for both me andmy friend, um, who I made this
with.
Like, Lobster Theramin, we wereobsessed with them, and it was
almost like, who would haveimagined?
A year later, John Summit, wasdown for me to send him some

(51:22):
tracks.
I sent him like a 20 songplaylist of very eclectic tracks
from drum and bass to techno tothat dubstep song.
And out of all the songs, thedubstep song is the one he
started playing.
Uh, he played it at EDC back toback with some tronics.
This record label, LobsterTheremin, had been shut down,
and I ended up getting in touchwith Dead Beats, um, Zedd's

(51:44):
Dead's label, and they ended upsigning the song and re
releasing it, and, dude, I gotto play a bunch of dubstep
shows, I got to meet a bunch ofdubstep artists, I started
experimenting, trying to makemore dubstep, and what I learned
by doing this and experiencingthese opportunities, I feel like
I learned that I really do lovedubstep, But it's not my, it

(52:09):
doesn't feel like my home.
It feels like, my friend'shouse.
It feels like a place that Ilove to visit and that I would
love to have a sleepover at, butit doesn't feel like the place
that I, feel comfortable wakingup every morning and eating
three meals a day at.
I'd be like, house music and wasalways my first love.

(52:31):
And there, I, I feel likewhether it's house and techno,
like you just get locked inthese hypnotic grooves that I
feel like I just love them somuch that I feel like I just
feel so at home in that world.
And, um, I think the way thatI've navigated this phenomenon
of being blown by the wind, it'slike, I feel like sometimes you

(52:54):
just got to experience it.
Like I think I had a definingmoment when I, I DJ'd, I threw a
little party at Miami music weekand I went back to back with
levity and John Casey.
And it's kind of funny causelike, I was playing back to back
with these amazing artists, andI just was feeling like Huh, I

(53:15):
want to be playing more technoright now and I've played the
dubstep songs that I liked andbut I was like, huh?
I just had this feeling of like,oh and then since then I went to
Europe a few times And just likehustled some stuff and didn't
really have many like real gigs,but just like was hanging out
with artists that I'd met onlineand scrapped together some kind

(53:38):
of like renegade shows.
And when I was there, I waslike, Oh, I want to sneak in
some dubstep.
And I did, and that felt good.
And the balance, it just feltright.
And I felt like sometimes youjust got to like, put some stuff
out there, see where the windtakes you.
But then also, You know, justexperience it and see how it
feels and check in with yourselfand be like, Ooh, this feels

(54:00):
really inspiring.
Ooh, this um, this feels like myheart is craving something else.
And that, those things canalways change, but that's where
I'm at in this moment.
Does

Nik (54:08):
yes, I and I hope that I hope that's not just where
you're at in this moment.
I hope that that's where youstay and I hope that everybody
that's listening to this goesback and listen to the last 10
minutes again, because I thinkyou just knocked it out of the
park.
You're talking about feelingfollowing the feeling, which is.

(54:30):
The I'm not gonna say theopposite, but a different place
than where we're often wherewe're getting stuck.
We're getting stuck in our head.
We're getting stuck with theself doubt and that little
gremlin voice.
That lives in the mind.
Right?
And what I hear so much in yourstory is.
You let go of being right orwrong, right?

(54:52):
Which just that lives in themind that it's that, that
internal egoic judgment of thisis what I should be doing.
This is the right way to dothings.
Right.
And getting out of that andreally tuning in and tapping
into like.
What feels good?
What feels fun, right?
You said, you know, follow thefun.
See where that goes.

(55:12):
There's a level of openness.
There's a level of nonattachment that comes with that.
And it might be a little scaryto step into that.
But I just think you are such agreat example of someone that's
that's following that.
Like you said, Oh, like, yeah, Ijust feel like making some
techno right now.
I feel like doing this.
You also don't have to beattached to it.
That's the beautiful thing,right?
Like we're saying, we're, we'realways evolving and shedding

(55:34):
layers and it's like, just,okay, I'm going to just go sleep
over at my friend's house.
I don't have to live there.
You know, I love that.
I love that.
That metaphor, man.
But, um, props to you for havingone.
I think the courage to do that.
But it also it's, it's, it'sdeveloping that relationship
with yourself of actually beingable to tune in and tap in and
be like, Oh, what, what feelsgood?

(55:55):
Let me get out of my head.
Let me get into my body, into myheart, into my soul, into my
gut.
What feels fun?
What feels juicy?
Like.
Being able to actually identifywhere that lives inside of you
and how to, you know, I thinkyou really have to get out of
your head to get into that otherplace.
And then just like, yeah, have,have the courage to trust it,
have the courage to follow itand the courage to, to play an

(56:16):
experiment.
And as I say, fuck around andfind out and, um, and just
trust, have faith that it willlead you to some cool places,
you know?

Justin (56:25):
100 percent dude, love the way that you were able to
like distill all the, the, thejumble that I threw at you.
Cause I feel like that wasreally impressive and, uh, just
perfectly put.
And, and just to, to piggybackoff of that, you know, I would
say one of the most inspiringquotes that I ever heard was
from Joseph Campbell, who's justlike an incredible, academic and

(56:48):
historian almost, um, you know,someone who just studied all
this mythology and culture andhe gleaned so much wisdom from
all of it and you know, afterstudying all of this, like,
wisdom from across time andculture and location, his
biggest, advice for life was, isto follow your bliss.
And when you follow that feelingof what energizes you, what

(57:11):
makes you happy, what, gives youthat feeling that life is worth
living.
When you follow that feeling,you will always be rewarded
because whatever opportunitiespresent themselves.
Thank you.
are going to be aligned withthat feeling.
And you might not be able tounderstand why it's happening
and what's happening, butthere's just so much wisdom
there.

(57:31):
And I think, you know, toconnect this all back to the
music stuff, you know, I thinkone of the funniest things is I,
I still love dubstep and I stillhave so much fascination and
curiosity about that world andthat community and that genre.
Here's like something reallyfunny.
I made a bunch of songs withLevity this year.

(57:51):
I love those guys so much.
They're incredible people.
They're so talented.
I'm a huge fan of their music.
We did some projects togetherand I used, a sound that, we
used on a song on a remix of,Ass?
Uh, ass, ass, ass, like, theLevity guys, they, um, had this,
like, synth bass, like, wubsound, that they, pulled up for

(58:16):
that song, and then I, like,ended up taking that preset and
messed with it a little bit, andthen made, like this UKG meets
hard groove track with thedubstep preset.
And, um, that song just gotsigned to one of my favorite
light record labels of thismoment, which is, uh, Club
Heartbroken, which is like oneof the coolest labels in Europe

(58:40):
right now.
And it's, it's run by MarlonHofstadt and, uh, Malugi or
Maluji.
I love that dude.
I still am not 100 percent surewhat the pronunciation of his
artist name is.
It's ironic because we actuallymade a song together and I still
don't know.
His real name is Mateo, which I,I do have confidence in the
pronunciation.
But anyways, to go from like,like, this is the shit you can't

(59:01):
predict, but the amazing thingsthat can happen when you just
like have fun and follow yourheart.
It's like, yeah, I made songswith some dubstep homies and
then took something that Ilearned that I loved and ended
up.
Using it to get, to, for thisamazing song, this amazing,
like, moment where now that songis getting signed to, like, an

(59:23):
amazing European Eurodance,house techno label.
Like, it's just crazy how thingscan work

Nik (59:30):
And there's no way that your your mind or your intellect
or your ego or that calculatingpart of our brain.
Could have created that orpredicted that like that's
purely just following your blissI want to wrap it up with a
really cool full circle momentJoseph Campbell and the hero's
journey is Actually a big partof how I got into what I'm doing

(59:56):
now I used to work at iconcollective music production
school and we taught A classcalled the art of flow, which is
all about how to follow yourflow, follow your heart, follow
your intuition.
I think it was like the lastclass of that series was a class
on the hero's journey.
And, um, I, I used to be themusic business guy there.

(01:00:16):
I was all about like, I was thebusiness dude, I was the
industry dude.
And then when I started teachingthat class, it started just
opening me up way more to thespiritual side of things, the
mindset side of things.
Like I started to let go a lotmore of the business and, became
like the, hippie Rick, RickRubin guy, you know, instead of
like the music business guy.

(01:00:36):
And, um, that was just followingthe breadcrumbs following, like,
where was my passion?
Where was my inspiration?
Where was that going?
Uh, is what led me to startcoaching and ultimately is what
led me to start this podcast andis literally the reason like why
we're here right now is, hasbeen from following my bliss and
just following thosebreadcrumbs.

(01:00:57):
So I really love that you bringup that quote because it was,
um, yeah, actually like a verykind of pivotal, piece of my
story and one of the chaptersthere.
So,

Justin (01:01:06):
That's so beautiful.
Damn, that's crazy.
Also, journey.
It's so inspiring following yourbliss and doing what makes you
happy.
I think is so important.
I think there's one other huge,huge piece for anyone who like
really wants to build a careerin making music.

(01:01:27):
I feel like you need to.
Do two things.
You need to follow your blissand your intuition.
And I think also it's reallyimportant to not stay isolated
in your own bubble either.
I think finding community Ithink is really, really
important and that can be onlineif you're physically removed.

(01:01:49):
But I think wherever it existsphysically in person I think is
also incredibly useful, even ifit's small, even if it's just
like one or two other peoplethat you feel really connected
with.
But I think, that's one of thebig things that I've experienced
over the past year.
You know, I've split my timelargely between Boulder,
Colorado, where like dubstep,it's like Denver is like the

(01:02:10):
bass music capital of the world.
And I feel like I've learned somuch by just being immersed in
that community.
And then the same thing withinEurope, you know, I've been a
fan of what's happening there.
Since I started my career, it'sactually my first time in my
entire career of just like goingthere with kind of like an open

(01:02:31):
minded approach or just liketrying to hang out with people,
learn and, just take in theinspiration just for the fun and
the love of it.
And, you know, I think somethinghappens when you like go to a
place where you can be on thedance floor or see, like, if you
want to be a DJ, like, and youhaven't been on a dance floor in
like 10 years, I think that'sgoing to be really, really

(01:02:55):
tough.
Or at least I hope if you're inthat situation, like watching
YouTube videos of what partiesare like and trying to like
almost feel that sense ofcommunity remotely, which can be
done.
I feel like dance music is socommunity driven and the more
you can.
Understand where communityexists and where you feel at

(01:03:15):
home.
And sometimes that can take timeand trial and error.
And you might need to just likeexplore a bunch and try a bunch
of things.
But I think that, is really,really valuable.
Because, you know, at the end ofthe day, like it's dance music,
people dance together.
You know, and there's so muchthat goes into community, like

(01:03:36):
culturally, like taste wise,things like the way that things
evolve, the way that like youknow, influences come and go.
Um, I think if you are doing, ifyou're both taking in that,
those, that inspiration from.
community where you feel athome, where the people you're
making friends and people whoyou feel like, oh, this person
is great.
And it feels like we understandeach other when you're taking in

(01:03:59):
that inspiration, but then alsodoing your own thing.
You know, bliss following whereyou're being yourself, having
taken in that inspiration.
It's now in your DNA and thenletting go and just having fun
again.
I think that that duality is soimportant.
And if you just have one, itmight be an incomplete picture.
If you're just in your ownbubble, you might be missing out

(01:04:21):
on some great sort of feedback.
And.
Inspiration from the communitiesthat are out there.
And on the flip side, if you'reoverly fixated on just
community, you might loseyourself in your own identity
and that might not be idealeither.
and at the end of the day, usingthat intuition of following your
bliss, am I having fun?
Am I enjoying this, as theultimate compass and I feel like

(01:04:43):
that's, uh,

Nik (01:04:44):
a thousand percent, man.
You nailed it.
with, with duality.
Duality is the foundation of, ofthe work that I do.
It's about that balance.
It's about, yeah, being in yourmasculine energy and grinding
and, and putting in the, in thehours and having structure and
discipline and understanding thebusiness.
You, you know, you, you arerunning a business here and it's

(01:05:05):
about being in your feminineenergy.
The flow, the dance, the play,right?
It's about being, super deep inyour laptop, by yourself and,
being, you know, that, thatgremlin producer sometimes.
And it's about being superplugged into the culture and
being on the dance floor andremembering why you started this
shit in the first place.
And, and going out and, and, youknow, networking and meeting
people.

(01:05:25):
And, I think it's reallyimportant to understand where is
the pendulum.
Usually tipping, you know,because sometimes it's like, Oh,
I noticed it for myself.
I'm like, Oh, I'm kind ofisolating right now.
I actually need to go play more.
I'm working a little bit toohard.
I actually need to go out.
And then sometimes I'm like, Oh,I'm having a little bit too much
fun.
Maybe I need to like get back towork over here.
So it's, it's a, it's a dance.
Yeah.
And, um, it's a beautiful danceto be dancing.

(01:05:47):
So man, I am.
So, so inspired, just by you andwhat you're doing and your
philosophy and your worldviewand your message and your art,
man.
You're just, you're a fuckingrad dude, Justin.
And, uh, I really appreciate youhopping on here, man.

Justin (01:06:02):
Right back at you, Nick.
This is such a pleasure, dude.
And just like awesome to bespeaking with someone who, is,
you know, I feel like youobviously have such a gift for
understanding the mindset and,you know, being able to.
you know, Help people move pasttheir own self judgment as a
coach.
I feel like that's dude, justsuch a beautiful thing.

(01:06:24):
And I I feel like I got to takesome of that energy in with me.
Um, which, you know, you can'tget enough of at any stage of
the game, you know?
So dude, really appreciate you,dude.
And, yeah, man, this is awesome.
I'm glad we

Nik (01:06:36):
Likewise, brother.
Yeah, man.
Stay connected and, uh, thanksagain.