PHASEONE – Building a Legacy in Bass Music - Headliner Mindset

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Graeme (00:00):
everyone's a dj, everyone's a producer now, it's

(00:01):
like, how do you actually standout?
I think you just need, reallyneed to like, find your sound
said than done.
Right.
But

Nik Cherwink (00:08):
Yeah.

Graeme (00:08):
that's kind of it, like, you know, like, how else will
you stand out?

What's up everybody?
Welcome to the Headliner MindsetPodcast.
This week's guest is a heavyhitter in the bass music scene
and one of the badass artiststhat has been bringing heavy
metal to electronic music.
In this episode, we talk aboutthe pressure of staying relevant
as an established artist.
The difference between droppingan album versus dropping
singles, essential DJ hacks forlife on the road, and much, much

(00:45):
more.
This is phase one.
What's up brother?
Welcome to the show, man.
So stoked to have you here.

Graeme (00:51):
Thanks for having me, sir.
It's good.
Glad to be here.

Yeah, and I was just saying, uh, congratulations
on the album.
By the time this comes out, thealbum will be out, but, but
right now it's coming out inabout a day or two.
So congratulations man.
Crossing the finish line.

Graeme (01:07):
Yeah, we we're finally here.
You know, it's, uh, it's beenyear in the making and, you
know, a bunch of months planningthe release and everything.

Yeah.

Graeme (01:17):
it feels, it feels very surreal that it's like, oh, it's
just, it comes out in like a dayor two.
It's like,

Yeah.

Graeme (01:23):
like,

So my, my.

Graeme (01:24):
crazy, but, um, yeah.

My question is, what are you gonna do to
celebrate?
I'm huge on celebration.
I think it's, I, I'm, I'malways, uh, I'm always
encouraging my clients tocelebrate everything that they
do.
So what are you doing tocelebrate a year's worth of
work?

Graeme (01:40):
I hadn't even got that far ahead, honestly.
Like I've just been so fofocused.
I literally haven't thought of

Yeah.

Graeme (01:46):
it is funny'cause like this, this, this is like, this
is like, I, I, I'm doing nothingthis weekend, like purposely.
'cause like, like the week aftertour starts, I'm kind of like
trying to enjoy like my

Yeah.
Yeah.

Graeme (01:57):
free man, you know?

Yeah.

Graeme (01:59):
but um, yeah, I, I hadn't even thought that far
ahead.
I've been so like, focused onlike the rollout and like,
everything like, but maybe, uh,yeah, it comes out Friday, so I
guess I'll, I don't know, have abeer or something at

Yeah.
See, okay, here's the thing.
I gotta point this out.
We all suck at celebrating.
Like we're so good at, you know,we're focused on our goals,
we're focused on working, what'sthe next thing, right?
But it's such an important partof the process that we also have
to like.
Acknowledge ourselves andcelebrate the wins along the
way.
Otherwise, it's like, okay,what's, what's next?
Right?
We're just back to work onMonday, chasing the next thing.

(02:33):
So yes, get that beer.
Do something fun.
Super important that youcelebrate.

Graeme (02:38):
Yeah.
I, I'll, I'll, I'll definitely,uh, yeah.
Thanks, thanks for planningthat.
'cause I, I wouldn't have doneanything

Yeah, it's wild.
No, you and you're not the onlyone man.
You're, it's wild.
Like, I, I do, you know, I, I ama life coach for artists and
DJs.
I help a lot of people out withthe music business side of it.
But like the mindset, lifecoaching side of it is so
important as well.
And this is like a pillar of myprocess is like we have to
celebrate every little milestonealong the way, otherwise we just

(03:05):
get fucking burned out.
And all we're doing is, youknow, working and grinding.
And that catches up with usafter a while.
So.
Yes.
Celebrate big time.

Graeme (03:13):
think, I think my mentality.
it was like, because tour startsnext week.
Like I, um, like I, I kind oftreat tours like my social
times, like

Hmm.

Graeme (03:23):
like I'm

Yeah.

Graeme (03:24):
like I'm meet, I'm meeting so many people, meeting
so many fans and like travelingand like, like I was kind of, of
treat that as like the, uh, thetime to like celebrate in a way
where it's like I get

Yeah.

Graeme (03:35):
like, like besides all the travel, like, you know, I, I
get to hang out with people andlike, you know.
Like it, it kind of feels like aparty, you know?

Yeah,

Graeme (03:44):
but like that does feel like,

I,

Graeme (03:46):
a bit of a thing.
So I was kind of like gonna usethat as

yeah.

Graeme (03:50):
celebratory part, but like, yeah.
It's a

Yeah.
I was,

Graeme (03:53):
isn't it?

I, I was, I was gonna ask, does tour feel like a
celebration when you go outthere?

Graeme (03:59):
Sometimes.
Sometimes it feels veryexhausting,

Yeah.

Graeme (04:02):
you know, as I'm sure like many of your clients will
tell you it's,

Yeah,

Graeme (04:06):
be a lot.

yeah, yeah.
Combination of both.

Graeme (04:09):
every weekend, like, like this, this tour I'm about
to start is like literally everyweekend until the end of the
year, like

Yeah.
So I imagine the beginning, likeyou're gonna get out, you're
kind of fresh, beginning a touralbum just dropped.
There's probably a lot of likeexcited celebratory energy in
the beginning, and then Iimagine there's a point where
you're like, shit, I've been onthe road for a while.
It's probably gotta be like.
Uh, like a dip in the excitementafter you've done so many shows

(04:35):
in a row?
Like what's, what's that like?
Is there a certain amount oftime that you, you know, when
you've been on the row thatyou're like, okay, now it, now
it's starting to feel like work.

Graeme (04:43):
Um, a little bit, but like, I've also basic been doing
this for so long that it, it, itall just kind of just like I'm,
I'm used to it.
I guess.

Yeah.

Graeme (04:50):
I think, I think, I think it's the weekends when you
have like shows, like the firstshow's grand, uh, second show's,
like feel, feel it.
If you have like three shows inone weekend, like the third
show, you're just like.

Yeah.

Graeme (05:04):
Like,

yeah,

Graeme (05:05):
Um, it's, especially with all, all the travel, like
always try and like get the likedirect flights to make the, um,
to make it easier on myself,easier on my body.
Like I'm just like, just, justget me there.

yeah.

Graeme (05:18):
I don't wanna, like, I don't wanna mess around with

Yeah.

Graeme (05:20):
and shit

Pay the extra a hundred bucks to avoid the
layover and, and catch up, youknow, get a little bit more
sleep.
What are some other tips thatyou have for, you know, maybe
there's some younger artists outthere that they're, they're just
starting to get their firstshows, they're just starting to
tour as a touring veteran atthis point.
What are some tips that you haveto help people survive life on
the road?

Graeme (05:41):
Um, I think like an important one if, if you are
like flying a lot, is to try andstick to like one airline.
'cause you wanna like up thosemiles and get, gain like a
status with an airline because.
Because when, when, when itcomes to time, when you're like
traveling a lot, it's like youwant that experience to be as,
as pleasant as possible.

(06:01):
Right?
So

Yeah.

Graeme (06:02):
like for me it's like I've, I'm like, like top two
with like, like, um, Delta andAmericans.
So it's like whenever I catchthose airlines, like pretty much
like nine times outta 10 flightsI'll get upgraded to first, you
know?

Oh, nice.

Graeme (06:14):
like, like having that and like having access to like
the lounge, like,'cause likethat's kinda your time to like
get lunch and shit like that.
And it's like.
If you can save like money byhaving to not buy lunch and that
you just go to the airportlounge and get your food there,

Yeah.

Graeme (06:30):
that makes it, that, that, that, that, that makes a
big difference in like, youknow, when you add it all up.

Yeah.
Cool.

Graeme (06:37):
that's a huge one for me.
I think I

DJ hacks.

Graeme (06:41):
did

Yeah.

Graeme (06:41):
Yeah.

Yeah.
Love that man.
Well, I want to hear a bit aboutyour, we can call it your origin
story.
So anyone that's been listeningto the podcast for a while, you
guys know.
I'm a fucking metalhead and I'msitting here with a, a, a fellow
metalhead who has also broughtthat into the electronic world.
I think it's so cool to kind ofjust see how those worlds have,

(07:04):
have been joining forces moreand more.
Um, I'm curious about yourbackground as an artist, as a
musician.
Did you start off playing inbands?
I've seen that, that happen witha lot of artists.
So tell me a bit about how youstarted, in music.

Graeme (07:18):
Yeah, I feel like, a lot of dubstep producers used to
play in

Yeah.

Graeme (07:21):
metal

Yeah.
Almost all of'em, for sure.

Graeme (07:23):
a lot.
A lot.
Yeah.
Um, yeah, I mean, God, I, I, uh,I started playing guitar when I
was like a kid.
didn't really take it seriouslyuntil like, maybe I was a, a
teenager when, when I, you know,started getting into like
Metallica and shit like that,you know, when I was like

Yeah.
Yeah.

Graeme (07:39):
13, 13, 14 kind of thing.
And then, yeah, in high schoolwe started our, like high school
band.
We would just like, we would dolike covers of like Lamb of God
and

Hell yeah, dude.

Graeme (07:49):
Um, yeah.
And then that kind of like,yeah.
Then we like graduated and thenwe kind of kept that band for a
couple years.
Then we started just doing likelocal gigs just around like
Sydney, basically where I'mfrom.
And then I, then after that Ikind of started bouncing around
just between other bands.
'cause that at that point, like.
We, we knew everyone, like kindof in the, the local like metal
scene, um, like the underground,local metal scene, whatever.

(08:12):
And then at that point I waslike playing in like three
different bands at once, kind oflike, we would, we would always
kind of bounce around eachother's bands and stuff like
that.

Yeah.

Graeme (08:20):
Yeah, so that was kind like my introduction to like, I
don't say tour, it wasn't liketouring, but like, you know, we
would, we would be doing showsand stuff like that and, and
like we did a few like nationalruns in like a van, you know,
like down to like Melbourne orlike.
Brisbane or Canberra and stufflike that.
Like, it wasn't like touring,but like, it kind of was though.
'cause like it's like five dudeslike crammed in like this van

(08:42):
with like drum kits and likeamplifiers and gear.
Like, it was so uncomfortable.

a little different than going to the Delta Lounge,
by yourself, uh, as a DJ forlunch, right?

Graeme (08:52):
I'm saying, that's what I'm saying.
Like, it's a, it's a verydifferent experience.
But like, that was, that waskinda my first taste of like,
you know, doing shows andtouring and stuff like that.
Uh, this is like, this is beforeI even knew what like EDM was

Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah.

Graeme (09:05):
then, like this, this is like 2000 and like six, seven.
Like, you know, like EDM wasn'treally a thing.
I mean, it was, but like wasn'treally like, to me it was just
like,

It was, yeah, it was all techno music.

Graeme (09:16):
yeah, exactly.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And it, and it kind of was to anextent, like, you know, I, I
know, I know dubstep was onlyjust kind of being invented like
around then, like.
2006, 7, 8, 9, like superunderground, like, and just in
the uk like nowhere else evenknew what it was.

Yeah.
Yeah.
So when did you make thattransition into music
production?

Graeme (09:36):
yeah, I mean, like, I, I, I was always doing production
like, uh, like with my bands, Iwas always the producer, I was
the engineer.
I, I, I went to school for soundengineering.
so like, I was already, I, Ialready had like a, like a
producer that had on, so I waslike.
like the, predominantly like thesongwriter in the bands.
So I was like songwriting andengineering basically the songs.

(09:57):
And then it was, it was, it wasmore of like, it was almost like
a matter of me being liketeaching the band member how to
play the songs that, that Iwrote and recorded

Yeah.
Yeah.

Graeme (10:05):
And then, and then we, we could like record both and
stuff like that.
So I, I already had that, likeenough knowledge or like basic
knowledge on, you know, how to,you know, record and, you know,
do some basic engineering.
And then I went to school forit.
And then in 2010, me and mybuddies, I used to travel like
to Europe a lot, um, just forfun.

(10:27):
that's kind of where like, Ikind of like really started like
we would, like, would attendlike festivals and stuff like
that.
And that was kind of like, uh,my first introduction to, um,
like, I guess like the, what,like the new world of EDM and
stuff like that, you know,

Right.
Yeah.

Graeme (10:41):
it was, it was around that time where Riri was coming
up and stuff like that.
And Mouse was a big thing.
So that was like, kind ofinspiring to me.
And then like when dubstepreally kind of like took a, took
a turn.
And like, you know, 20 10, 2011.
just remember, I remembersitting at my computer,'cause I
remember being on Facebook andlike people would always like,

(11:01):
um, post like the UK F videos

Mm-hmm.

Graeme (11:04):
I, I'd always see the, the logo come up and

Yeah.
Yeah.

Graeme (11:07):
whatever.
What is this technical shit?
Whatever.
Kept, kept, keep scrolling pastwhatever.
And then I saw it, like I saw itpop up so many times.
I'm like, what is this?
So I clicked on it and like thatchanged my life.

Oh yeah.

Graeme (11:18):
day I clicked on that was like, it changed, changed
the trajectory of likeeverything.

Hmm.

Graeme (11:23):
like it was, it wasn't, it wasn't even like a heavy
dubstep song.
It was like a, um, it was like amelodic, like dubstep song, but
like the vocal, I'm just like, Idunno.
Something about it just likesent me into like this aura.

Yeah.

Graeme (11:37):
on a deep dive and found all like, the, the heavier stuff
and discovered like, you know,like SK did a fucking, um, like
a collab album with Korn andstuff like that.

Oh yeah.
Yeah.

Graeme (11:49):
like, you know, it's like.
And, and to me it was just like,like is just like electronic
metal.
It's like they're both justaggressive styles of music,

Totally.

Graeme (11:59):
you know what I mean?
So,

So, yeah.

Graeme (12:01):
that, that was kinda like the introduction, I guess.

Yeah.
So that was always there for youfrom the beginning though, was
the, the metal roots and kind ofbackground.
Were you playing guitar on your,on your early stuff?
Like were you actually bringingin like the metal sounds?

Graeme (12:15):
Not at that stage, like the ear, the early stuff, I was
just basically trying to makethe upset with

Okay.

Graeme (12:19):
without the idea of

Yeah,

Graeme (12:21):
Um, I,'cause at,'cause then I, I started doing that for
a bit, then I ended up quittingthe band I was in at the time to
just kind of focus on that.
'cause by then I, I was like,just like making shitty, like
remixes or like, um, uh, ideasand just putting'em on
SoundCloud.
And then off that people weretrying to book me and I was
like, fuck.
Like, I dunno how to

Mm

Graeme (12:41):
So I'm

mm.

Graeme (12:42):
I guess I should teach myself at a DJ if I wanted to
get booked or whatever.

I wanna, I wanna ask about that real quick.
Um, what's, because there was anera where you could just upload
a track on SoundCloud and dolike a cool remix and it would
get like 10 million plays, andthen you just start getting
calls from like, bookers andagents and stuff.
So I, I want, I want to hearabout like, when you started
getting success, were you goingas phase one at this point

(13:06):
already?
Was that your, your brand or didyou have a previous uh, brand?

Graeme (13:11):
yeah, yeah.
I, I pretty much just like, uh,like I had to, I had to make a
sound without account, so I waslike, just kind of picked a
random name, like to,

Yeah.

Graeme (13:19):
it was like.
Um, like phase one just comesfrom like, um, like fa like
phase is like, you know, in, inaudio, like

Yeah,

Graeme (13:26):
phasing in and out.

yeah.

Graeme (13:28):
that and slap slapped one on the end.
Like I, I, I basically just hadto think of a name to like make
the account.
So that

Okay.
and then you started seeingsuccess pretty quickly, just,
just from putting your music outthere.

Graeme (13:39):
uh, I would say success.
Like I got some rec recognition,I guess because like, I guess
like having previous, um, I.
Previous experience as amusician in general, kind of
like, you know, had the, the,you know, the, the building
blocks to, you know, make asongs like a

Yeah.

Graeme (13:57):
a new, um, you know, music theory and I could play
several instruments and all thissort of stuff.
So that definitely helps.
and then after, yeah, maybeafter like.
A year or something of uploadingsongs, like, and, and just also
kind of going out and getting toknow like local DJs and local
promoters and stuff like that.
Like I, yeah, I definitelystarted getting booked a few
times, just like locally,

Yeah.

Graeme (14:18):
um, just like opening like doors for like, whoever,
you know,

Yeah.

Graeme (14:24):
um,

And were, were you pretty set on becoming a DJ at,
at that point?
Like you made the transitionfrom like, I'm in a band.
What was that moment where you,like you, it sounds like you
probably closed the door on theband thing and started going for
the DJ thing.
Like what was that moment?

Graeme (14:39):
Um, yeah, I mean, like, I never thought it was gonna
take off.
Like, I never, like, that wasnever my intention.
Like, like if, if you had tosaid to me like 15 years ago,
like, oh, you're gonna be doingthis full time,

Hmm.

Graeme (14:51):
in a few years.
Like, I would just been like,no, this is, this is just for
funsies.
Like,

Okay.
Yeah.

Graeme (14:56):
I had, I had my day, I had my day job and all that.
And the s doing music just'causethat's, that's all I ever knew,
you know, like, it was just,it's just what I do, you know?

Yeah.

Graeme (15:03):
Yeah, so it was probably like, maybe like three, three
years into it, maybe like 2013,that I started missing doing the
medal stuff.
And that was when I was kind oflike, why not try and do both, I
guess.
Like, um, so, so like, yeah, Ikind of started just like doing

(15:26):
the metal stuff as well, butthen trying to incorporate like,

Yeah.

Graeme (15:29):
E-D-M-E-D-M into it.

Yeah.

Graeme (15:32):
And then little did I know that was about to spark my
like next 10 years of likejourney of like trying to master
that sound or

Totally.
And I, I wanna acknowledge youfor that, bro, because I've seen
and heard a lot of people tryand it, it, it, it's hard.
It seems like it's hard to makeit work.
I had a good chat with, um, withNitty about this on the podcast,
and I actually used to manageSullivan King early on in his
career.
So was was with him when hestarted picking up his guitar
and, and bringing it alltogether.

(16:02):
But it's like, it's a sonicallykind of hard thing to do and you
might hear a lot of like, maybelike a metal verse.
And then just into a dubstepdrop.
But to actually really bring itall together to sit on top of
each other, it, it's, it's, uh,there's only a few people out
there that I think are actuallyreally doing it well.
And so you've been, you, you'reone of them, man.
You've been doing a good job ofactually like bringing it

(16:22):
together.
Yeah, for sure.
For sure.
And, and, and the one point Iwant to, I want to highlight as
well of what you just said waslike you said you were doing it
like just for funsies, you know,like you were, you were just
following.
'cause right now, you know, Ithink so many people are.
Focusing on success of like,okay, what I want to be a
successful artist.
How do I become a successfulartist?
What do I need to make to becomea successful artist?

(16:43):
And I always love hearing,hearing these stories where it's
kind of like.
It's like I wasn't reallychasing it.
I wasn't really trying, I wasjust following like, I really
love making music and let'sfollow the stuff that's actually
fun and interesting.
And especially for you, youknow, like metal and electronic
music wasn't a thing, but thatwas what was inside of you.
That was something that youloved, something you were
interested in and passionateabout, and you followed that and

(17:05):
that's what ultimately led toyour success.

Graeme (17:08):
Totally.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Um, it's, it's definitely beenan interesting journey for sure,

Yeah.

Graeme (17:14):
the least.

What would you say have been some of the, the
biggest challenges on yourjourney so far?

Graeme (17:21):
Um, I think like in more recent days, like post COVID,
you know, like, I guess like,'cause I've been around, like,
I'm considered like an old headnow.
Being an older artist, it's likejust as hard to like stay on

Hmm.

Graeme (17:37):
as it is to like, come on these days I feel

Mm-hmm.

Graeme (17:39):
was like, I feel like with the way people consume
music, they're, they're,they're, they're spoiled for
choice, you know, like there'sall these new things coming out,
blah, blah, blah.
it's almost like, oh, shinydiamond, ooh, shiny thing over
here.
It's like, you know,

Yeah.

Graeme (17:51):
are so attracted to just new fancy things, whatever, but
it's like, you know, trying to,trying to stay, stay on.
It's like, uh, a an older artistis like, definitely a tough one.
Especially like, now it's like awhole, whole new, new
generation, you know?
So it's like.

Yeah.

Graeme (18:07):
Trying to stay, you know, connected to these fans
that are like, grew up in likethe two thousands, like with
their phones and stuff likethat.
And like the

Yeah.

Graeme (18:16):
generation.
Like that's my struggle istrying to like, you know.
Essentially shift my focus, notfocus, but like add the focus
of, um, being like a contentcreator on top of trying to do
like what I aimed to try and dooriginally.
You know,

Yeah.

Graeme (18:33):
it, it's almost like you're adding another job on top
of it basically,

Totally.
Yeah.
Back to back to what we weresaying before where it's like,
yeah, you kind of came up in theera where it was more about the
music.
It was like if you just madereally cool shit, there was just
less of it out there, so a lotmore people kind of would've
gravitated to it, and nowthere's so many more people
doing it.
And being an artist is about somuch more than just the music.
It's like, it's about the whole,the whole world that you're

(18:57):
creating now.
And social media is obviously abig part of that, so very
different.
are you?

Graeme (19:02):
a,

Yeah.

Graeme (19:02):
weird time to be alive,

Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
How do you feel about creatingcontent and kind of playing the,
the TikTok generation game, youknow?

Graeme (19:14):
I don't love it.
I don't love it.
Like I, uh, I'm definitely notgreat in front of a camera.
I, you know, I, uh, it'sdefinitely a downfall of mine.
Definitely, like, introvertednaturally, and,

Mm.

Graeme (19:27):
just like camera shy, like, it, it is very different,
like, on stage and it's justlike, it's someone's feeling
you, like DJ or whatever like

Yeah.

Graeme (19:34):
different.
But

Yeah.

Graeme (19:35):
it's you and then Cameron talking and stuff like
that, that's where it's kind oflike, ugh.
Like, It just, it like.
I feel like it can very easilyfeel forced, you

Yeah.
Yeah.
I feel like this, this, thisreally is the million dollar
question for a lot of artists isthat it's like, okay, I, I.
Love making art.
I love making my music.
I'm, I'm happy to, you know,promote my songs and obviously
play shows and we can film, filmcool content around that.
But it kind of seems like, it'salmost like it's not enough now.
You know, like there is like ademand for people want more from

(20:06):
you in a way, right?
Like, I want more of the artist.
I want you to show me whatyou're having for lunch and talk
to me and, you know, tell mestories and stuff.
So if we look at it from thatperspective, I guess like.
What else do you, and could you,and are you talking to your fans
about?
Besides just like, Hey, I have anew song coming out and here's
me playing a show.

Graeme (20:27):
Um, I mean that, that's, that's a lot of it.
This is definitely a lot ofthat.

Yeah.

Graeme (20:31):
I mean, like, I, I, I mean, I post my dogs sometimes.
I got, I got two dogs.
Like, it's a bit of that, likeI, I don't know.
It's like I've always had thementality of like having my, my
private life, like separate tolike my profess professional
life, but those like lines aregetting blurred now.
So it's

Yeah.

Graeme (20:47):
to bring a little, trying to bring a little bit
more of that into it.
But like, I know like sometimesthey'll post like food or or
something like that, or.
Yeah, I don't know.

Yeah.

Graeme (20:58):
a weird one for

It's a hard, it's a hard question, man.
What would you say the phase onebrand is all about?

Graeme (21:07):
the, um, like the EDM metal stuff, um, I.
I feel like that's kind of the,that's kind of the main stick, I
guess.

Yeah.

Graeme (21:15):
um, but like, I dunno, like, um, I feel like, I feel
like there's like definitely anemphasis on like, like solid
engineering as well, like inthe, in the songs specifically.
That's like something I strivefor is like, like, um, making
like this cool composition, likecompositionally cool songs

Mm-hmm.

Graeme (21:35):
just like.
Just like a, a, a DJ friendlysong.
It's like, you know, uh, introor that's like build drop, build
drop kind of

Yeah.
Yeah.

Graeme (21:45):
if, if you hear the album, like there's like, it's
like actual songs, I guess.

Totally.

Graeme (21:50):
Like there's like verses choruses and like bridges and
like other sections that likearen't like traditionally like
in like an EDM structure, Iguess.

Well, let's talk, let's talk about the album Terra
Nova.
There seems to be a theme and astory around this.
Tell me about what's the albumabout?

Graeme (22:11):
Yeah, so Terranova, um, it essentially translates from
Latin, uh, it means new earth.
It took us a while to kind oflike figure out like the, uh,
the whole theme around thealbum.
Like,'cause at first when I waswriting, like when I first
started writing the album, itwas more just trying to think of
ideas and all that sort ofstuff.
Um, but then after we, after I'dwritten like enough content, me

(22:33):
and my manager kind of sat downand was like.
We need to figure out a name forthe album, first of all.
And also we wanna figure outsome like themes and stuff.
'cause like we want it to belike a full album project.
Like we don't want us to be,want it to be just a bunch of
tunes like slapped together, youknow?

Yeah.

Graeme (22:49):
so yeah, we came with the idea of Terra Nova, um, and
with like a lot of cool likeactivations around that.
So there's a lot of likeenvironmental, um.
Like themes, essentially, um,like if you've seen the
artworks, like, um, like there'sthree singles and like the main,
um, the main album artwork.

Yeah.

Graeme (23:10):
single is, the first single artwork is essentially,
um, like, uh, like, um, Genesis,it's like the earth brand new as
it was intended kind of thing.
Then you move on to single two,uh, which is basically that
bush, like that tree burning,

Mm

Graeme (23:26):
it, it basically symbolizes like, um, humanity's
like destruction on the planet

mm.

Graeme (23:31):
and like what, what we're doing to the, to the
planet.

Yeah.

Graeme (23:34):
single three, uh, it's like a, a desolate tree with no
leaves, like crows and stufflike that.
And it's kinda like, that's kindof like the aftermath of like,
uh, humanity's like reign ofterror on the planet.
And then it leads to the final,the final artwork, which is like
the, the Terranova, um, albumartwork.
And that's essentially the newEarth post-human, essentially.

(23:56):
Like, it's almost like mothernature will always prevail

Mm.

Graeme (23:59):
of thing.

Cool.
Cool.

Graeme (24:01):
that's that, that's, that's that.
And that we've done like a lotof, um, environmental themes
around it.
Like we're doing, uh, uh,actually this weekend we're
doing an album listening party.
so we basically, uh, selectedlike 2020 like, uh, like top
fans to come join us and we'regonna be like planting trees and

Yeah.

Graeme (24:19):
kind of thing.
So there is a lot of cool, like,um, like, uh, stories to tell,

This is so cool.
I, I, I saw your, I saw yourInstagram post about that.
That's in partnership with SpaceYacht, right?

Graeme (24:30):
space yacht and,

Yeah.

Graeme (24:31):
Trees.
Yeah,

Super cool.

Graeme (24:33):
LA like, um.
Environment group that they dolike a lot of cool stuff like
that.

Awesome.
And I have a really, a reallyfun and hilarious episode out
with the Space Yacht.
Guys, if you guys haven't heardthat episode, go check that one
out.
Rami and Henry are fuckinghilarious.
So shout out Space Yacht.
Um, but that's so cool.
So there's this theme of inenvironmentalism here.
Um, why is this important toyou?
Why did you choose this as the,as the theme for, for the album?

Graeme (25:02):
I think like it kind of just ties in with the whole
turnover thing and like the newearth and everything.
So it, it kind of like wastrying to make, make it relate.
You know, it's, it is definitelysomething I've, I've learned a
lot about in the last year aswell.
Um, uh, the, the, the guy thatused to own, uh, U-N-F-D-A
record label I used to releasewith in Australia, it's like a,

(25:24):
a metal label.
He has now started a com.
He, he's now a part of a companycalled, uh, green Australia.
And, um, they're, they're doinglike a lot of, um, activations
for like, um, it's essentiallyjust music, um, like touring
music and how to make itgreener, With like, um, like
carbon offsetting and stuff likethat.

(25:44):
And like, um.

Cool.

Graeme (25:45):
Just like, like materials that they use in, in
terms of like, like buildingstuff

Yeah.

Graeme (25:51):
so we had, we had, we had a really good, um, we had a
really good chat with him, um,uh, like maybe like a year ago
or something,

Yeah.

Graeme (25:58):
of once we, um, figured out like were trying to do with
the album.
so that was really inspiring.
Um, like I'm, I'm a hugeadvocate for like recycling in
general.

There we go.

Graeme (26:08):
Um, with, with the album, we're also gonna be
offsetting ev every single likeplane and stuff like that,
offsetting the carbon everysingle, like I do as

How do you do that?

Graeme (26:20):
Um, so you, you can basically just, you can
basically pay companies to likeplant trees for you and like,

Oh, okay.

Graeme (26:25):
um, o often you can do it through like the airlines.
So like, there's usually anoption for like carbon, carbon
offsetting

Oh, wow.

Graeme (26:33):
pay it and like, then they.
People, people with the groupplant trees and shit.

So however much carbon monoxide or whatever.
Is that what It's carbon.
Carbon monoxide, right?

Graeme (26:44):
uh, C carbon.
Yeah.

Carbon

Graeme (26:45):
like

is what the Yeah, that's what the emissions that
these, yeah.
Planes are giving out.
So basically planting a tree tocompensate for however much is
going that, that's really cool.

Graeme (26:57):
yeah, I mean there's, there's, you know, there's not
whole that you can do.
Like, like it's it's bestefforts, you know?

Yeah.

Graeme (27:03):
every little bit counts.
Um, we're, we're, we're alsodoing like vinyls.
This is the first time I've everdone vinyl and we've, uh, we're
going through, um, this companyin Brisbane, Australia called,
um, what are they called?
Su Suitcase records.

Yeah.

Graeme (27:16):
And they're, they're one of two places in the world that
do, like recycled, uh.
Recycled, um, vinyl

Oh, wow.

Graeme (27:24):
it's just, they use it making like, like, like recycled
materials rather than, um, theother stuff, which is like super
poisonous.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Cool.

Graeme (27:32):
that's a, that's a really exciting thing to do.

Yeah.

Graeme (27:35):
it's also my first time doing vinyl, so that's

Yeah.

Graeme (27:38):
and ter and terrifying.

Well there's your content.
Right there is the, theenvironmentalism, planting
trees, like all of that, likethat's your outside of the music
stuff that I think is reallycool.
That will, will definitelyresonate with the audience.
I love that.
And, and just to get thatmessage out and, and even
letting, I didn't even know thatthat's possible, that you could
like offset.
Carbon emissions through planes,you know, so that's a really
cool, cool message to spread.

(28:01):
Now when it comes to dropping analbum, what inspired you to do
an album rather than just do asingle every month for a year?
You know, there's always thisargument of like, singles are,
singles are an album, right?
Like, why would, why wouldsomebody really go through
dropping an album?
'cause I've also heard from bigartists as well where they're
like, damn, album is a lot ofwork.
We kind of dropped all our musicat one time and it didn't

(28:23):
necessarily get as much likelove as they wanted.
So what was the, the mindsetbehind making that decision?

Graeme (28:31):
I think, uh, like my first album album came out six
years ago, so I think one, ithad been enough time where we're
like, you know.
We need to do another one.
I think like a bigger project,you know?
So like, when, when it actuallycomes to releasing it, like you
can put so many more resourcesinto it.
And like, like, it's almost likesingles, like there's, there's

(28:54):
almost like incentive to like bespending like big ad budgets and
stuff like that on,

Hmm.

Graeme (28:59):
when with the album project, there's like, like.
There's a huge team effort, likeour, our distributors like fully
involved in it, like

Yeah,

Graeme (29:07):
our whole team's like hands on deck.
and it's just like, you know,there's, just more to talk
about.
And because it's, it's, there's,it's more of a story

yeah,

Graeme (29:16):
here's a new song, here's a new song kind of

yeah, yeah.
There's no story behind thosereally.

Graeme (29:20):
yeah.
And, and the cool thing aboutdoing an album is you can do
singles as well,

Yeah.

Graeme (29:25):
know,

Yeah.
Do like the waterfall release.

Graeme (29:28):
Essentially, yeah.
So like, you know, like we, we,a 10 song album.
We've done like three singles,kind of like, like spaced apart
by like a month each.
And then, um, and then yeah, thefull album drops.
Um, so people are getting, youknow, seven new songs

Yeah.

Graeme (29:42):
essentially.
Um, and yeah, like the, there'ssome stuff on there that's, um,
people would've heard before,like, especially if, you know,
if you came to a, came to showsor whatever, like you would've

Yeah.

Graeme (29:52):
me play them.
Um,

I saw you got some, some familiar faces and
homies on the album.
Micah Martin I saw is on there.
My girl, Hades, Savannah's onthere.
Awesome, awesome people.
I haven't had Micah on yet, butI got a awesome episode with
Hades as well.
One of my first like.
Five episodes or something, andshe's a badass.
So definitely check that one outas well.
Um, now you said, you know, whenyou're putting out an album,

(30:14):
there's kind of justificationfor, spending a little bit more
money to actually like, promoteit.
Where and what do you actuallyspend money on when you're
promoting?
Are you, is this like runningFacebook ads?
Like where, where's, where doesthe budget actually go?

Graeme (30:30):
Yeah, a a lot of it is ads.
So like, Spotify has marquee sothat there's like Spotify ads
essentially.
then there's like, uh, TikTokand meta ads.
Um, there, there, there's,there's an argument to do Google
ads, but like, I feel likethey're

Yeah.

Graeme (30:46):
'cause

Yeah, yeah.

Graeme (30:47):
wanna target like more specific audiences.
Um, but then there's like, youknow, budget behind like, um,
uh.
Like, for this kind of project,it's like I have to pay, um,
like the, the, the featurevocalist, like, you know, tons
of money and stuff like that.
So it's like,

Yeah.

Graeme (31:03):
single, it's like, would you wanna spend like thousands,
thousands of dollars?
Like, on like making, like, likeon like a, on paying a vocalist,
you know?
It's

Yeah,

Graeme (31:13):
it's hard to justify, it's hard to, harder to justify
if it's just like a one offthing, like one off song.

for sure.

Graeme (31:18):
project, like, it, it, it all falls back into like the,
the pot, like the budget.
so there, this, it's more, it'smore incentive to, um, yeah.
Like go out there and get like,like pay for like the bigger
feature or whatever, you know

Yeah, totally.
And, and then, because that'salso gonna be like.
You might not tour off of asingle, you know, to just like
be promoting a single, but Iimagine dropping an album,
there's, you could kind of thenreally leverage that into doing
a whole tour, supporting thealbum as well, and really make
the money back there on thetouring.

Graeme (31:50):
E.
Exactly.
Yeah.
That's, that's kind of like, Iguess that's kind of like
arguably the biggest part, Iguess it's

Yeah.

Graeme (31:56):
the, the touring aspect because like, you know, that's
kinda how it works.
Like album tour, you know, it'skind of,

Yeah.

Graeme (32:01):
kind of like, that's kind of the model that we've, in
the music industry we've kind ofbeen doing for, you know,
decades, you

Yeah, for sure.

Graeme (32:07):
Yeah.
Yeah.

So you have a, you have a tour, that you're
launching, relatively soon aswell around this.

Graeme (32:13):
Yeah, so album comes out like this week, and then tour
starts next week,

Okay.
Boom.

Graeme (32:18):
Yeah.

go

Graeme (32:19):
straight in, straight into it and

diving straight in.
Great.

Graeme (32:22):
it.
Yeah.
I think we've announced like 35dates or something, but there's,
there's, there's

Awesome.

Graeme (32:28):
to be

Yeah, yeah, yeah.
What tips would you have forsomebody that's considering
writing an album?
It sounds like a, sounds like alot of work.

Graeme (32:38):
It is definitely daunting.
Definitely daunting.
Um, I don't know.
Like, I think,'cause like I, I,I've heard a lot of albums,
especially in like the EDM worldand, and like sometimes it does
just feel like just a bunch ofsongs that they've, they've had
sitting there for ages thatthey've just kind of slapped
together.

Yeah.

Graeme (32:55):
Uh, that's fine.
That's fine.
Whatever.
You know, there's, there's no,there's no rules.
There's no wrong or right.
But like for me, an album shouldfeel like cohesive and like, it
should have like a lot of like,it, it, it's your one time, it's
your one time to experiment andlike do

Mm-hmm.

Graeme (33:11):
you know?
cause like you wouldn't normallydo, like, experiment with a
different genre and release itif you were just doing like,
like one offs, one-off

Hmm.

Graeme (33:19):
Right.

Why wouldn't you do that?

Graeme (33:21):
and.
Well, I'm not, I'm not sayingyou couldn't, but like I feel
like, um, we don't see it.
I

Yeah.

Graeme (33:29):
see it.
I feel like people kind of stickto like what sells and what's
gonna get them the next bookingkind of thing,

Yeah.
Yeah.

Graeme (33:35):
but

how do you feel about that actually, because
that's a, that's a common thingI, I hear a lot of people asking
is like, you know, should I justfind my sound and make the same
sound so that there's someconsistency and I'm kind of
hitting the same market?
Versus, a lot of people arekinda like, well, I like making
kind, maybe a couple differentsounds.
Maybe I like.
Dubstep.
And I also like drum and bassand I also even maybe like house

(33:57):
music.
I don't know, what are, whatare, what are your thoughts on
that as an artist?
'cause I, I can see how from abusiness perspective it makes
sense to be consistent, but alsoas an artist you kinda wanna
have freedom too.
So what's your perspective onthat?

Graeme (34:10):
Yeah.
I mean, for me, for mepersonally, I just get bored
really quickly.
Like,

Yeah,

Graeme (34:14):
I, I need variation.

yeah.

Graeme (34:16):
would, like, if I was just making the same old thing
over and over again, I wouldjust be like, this,

Yeah.

Graeme (34:21):
Like,

Sounds boring.

Graeme (34:22):
that's my perspective.
I can totally see why people doit and why it works.
I totally get that.
um, yeah, I, I just needvariation, like constantly,

Yeah.

Graeme (34:32):
like, yeah.
And, um, yeah, I, I also justlove experimenting with other,
oth other genres and stuff likethat.

Yeah.
How much are you payingattention to?
The industry and the musicbusiness, when it comes to
actually like creating music.

Graeme (34:49):
like a lot because like I also run a record label.
So I need to kind of keep on topof what's cool as well.
So it, it, it's almost like butlike, like research for like,
for self knowledge and for thelabel, but also for like my
project as well.
So like, like I feel like mekeeping on top of what's
relevant and cool helps me knowwhat not to do when I'm writing

(35:14):
my songs, you know?

Mm.

Graeme (35:16):
or, or, or what to do.

Mm-hmm.

Graeme (35:18):
So that definitely is like a, a huge factor.
Um, but also just like, youknow, like touring and stuff
like that.
You, you hear what people play.
You hear what's, what's, what'scool.
Like you hear what everyone's,you know about.

Yeah.

Graeme (35:31):
Um, that's, that's definitely a huge part of it, I
think.

Yeah.
Yeah.
Cool.
And so with this album, you, youfeel like you had a little more
room to kind of expand or just,uh, experiment and explore?
Um, yeah.
What, what was inspiring youwith the creation of this album,
and what directions were youkind of exploring here?

Graeme (35:51):
Um, I definitely tried a few different other genres that
I hadn't done before.
Like, I made a, I made a braketune, I'd never done before.
Um, and it turned out really,really cool.
Um.
Yeah, we couldn't expect it.
Like I, I had no idea what I wasdoing, but like, um, essentially
just going off like, like I,I'm, I'm huge fans of like, um,
like, uh, night Punk and Imaniand stuff like that.

Mm-hmm.

Graeme (36:13):
And like, I essentially kind of wanted to like, make,
uh, an track inspired by them,but like, but also make it
metal.

Yeah.
Yeah.

Graeme (36:21):
I don't know.
It it, yeah, it was a weird one.
And, and it turned out supergood.
Like

Yeah.

Graeme (36:25):
like a, it got the vocalist of, um, uh, banks
arcade from New Zealand

Yeah.

Graeme (36:29):
on it.

And, and you feel like if you had just dropped
like a brake tune as a singleoutta nowhere, like it'd be kind
of a weird, it'd be kind of aweird move to make'cause people
wouldn't really be expectingthat.

Graeme (36:43):
Yeah, I mean, like there'd be, there'd be nothing
wrong with it.
I just don't think it would've,I just don't think it would get
as much traction as if it waslike part of something greater,
you know?

Yeah, yeah.

Graeme (36:53):
Um, yeah.
And like there, there's like,there's other songs down there,
like there's a drawing bass onthere, like.
Like I am known to make drumbass occasionally.
I kind of do it like, maybe likeevery blue moon, but like, um,
but, but being, being fromAustralia as well, like, we have
such a huge, like, drum bass,like, um, like the, the fandom

(37:14):
there is crazy.
Like Australian, Australian NewZealand is like for drum bass
as, as well as Europe.
But like New Zealand, dude, it'slike drum bass mecca.

Yeah, yeah,

Graeme (37:24):
Like

yeah,

Graeme (37:25):
they play it on the ra, they, they play it on the radio.
Like, it's like, like, it's likepop music.

for sure.

Graeme (37:29):
Um, yeah, so it's like I, I, I feel like they've got a
good ear for drum bass.
'cause like a lot of people,like a lot of, uh, people hate
when dubstep producers make drumbass'cause like, they don't
know, like, it, it, it alwayssounds like it was made by a
dubstep producer, you

Yeah.
Yeah.

Graeme (37:44):
it's got like, it's got dubstep drums in it and like
dubstep bass noise.
It's like, no, this

Yeah, but that's, but that's the stuff that
actually I, I had a good, goodchat with Joe Wiseman, who's the
head of, uh, insomniac Recordsand I was asking him like,
what's, what's the shit that'slike really coming up?
You know, like, what's the nextwave?
And he was really advocatingabout drum and bass.
And it's funny'cause I've, I've.
I have recently, well, not sorecently, maybe the last two

(38:09):
years, like really got into,into drum and bass, but it is
the more dub steppy productionsounding drum and bass because
as Americans we're a little bitmore familiar with that sound,
you know?
And so it's like, it's likehitting over here in a different
way, which is yeah, reallyinteresting, but makes sense.

Graeme (38:25):
Yeah, I mean, drone base had a great, great like lot the
last like, like, know, year anda half has been really strong

Yeah,

Graeme (38:33):
for drone

huge.

Graeme (38:33):
is, which is great to see, you know, it's like, and
like, like literally like sinceI moved here like eight years
ago, everyone, it's always beenlike next year's, the year for
drum bass, next year's,

Yeah.

Graeme (38:44):
And we've always, we've said it year in year in year
again.
But then like, it's kind offinally happened a little bit

Yeah, yeah, totally.
This, this is, this is the yearmaybe, or maybe next year will
be even bigger.

Graeme (38:54):
maybe.
Hopefully,

yeah.
As an Australian, uh, I'veworked with a lot of Australians
before.
Were you anxious to leaveAustralia to, to move out?
To the states to be kind of ina, a bigger playing field.

Graeme (39:11):
Yeah.
I kind of like outgrew Australia'cause like, you know, I, I, I
love my country, but like,there's only so much you can do
there.
There's only, you know, there'slike five cities you can really
play

Yeah.

Graeme (39:23):
you can, you can only do those like once or twice a year,
you know, so it's like.
There's just not much there.
So I, I definitely like reachedthe ceiling of that,

Yeah.

Graeme (39:30):
pretty quickly,

When,

Graeme (39:32):
Zealand as well, and,

When were you able to make that move?

Graeme (39:36):
I got my first US Visa in 2016 and then did a tour
then.
And that was my firstintroduction to Amer America in
general.
Like I'd never been before.
Never really had much interestin going actually as

Yeah.

Graeme (39:51):
So I, I did that and then I was like, holy shit.
Like, um, like I could, uh, youknow, sustain myself just doing
this and like quit my day job orwhatever, you know.

Yeah.

Graeme (40:03):
So yeah, it, it was pretty, it was pretty daunting
at first.
'cause then like six monthslater I did that.
I, I moved.
so it was, it was definitelyscary going from being like, I
guess, you know, being like abig fish in a small sea in
Australia to then going toAmerica and being like a small
fish again.

Yeah.

Graeme (40:19):
was kind, that was, that was kinda like a weird like, um,
a weird mentality thing to gothrough.

Also just like fit in and like, you know, like, um,
find my place and like, youknow.
Yeah.

Graeme (40:31):
just, just go, go through all the motions of
moving to another country.
You know, like getting a socialsecurity, getting a, like
redoing my driver's license in,in America, like doing all the,
you know, stuff

yeah, yeah, because I, I think, I think
there's a lot of people, there'slike Canadian people that I know
as well, Australians, you know,people that are.
Wanting to, to move here, butthat's, it's a hard thing to do
when it comes to visas, justalso just the reality of picking
all your stuff up and moving tothe other side of the world.
But for you, you, you alreadyhad a tour going on.

(41:03):
You were already starting to getbooked and play shows, and
that's when you knew basicallythat there was demand for you to
be able to make that move.

Graeme (41:12):
That's kind of how you get the visa.
Like you basically need to showthe government that there's a
demand for you.

Mm-hmm.

Graeme (41:17):
like you essentially need to.
got a booking agent that areessentially booking you, like
shows They need to write a wholelist of the shows that you've
got coming up and you need tosend that to the government and
be like, this is what's goingon.
Like, he's, he's needed here.
And they'd

yeah,

Graeme (41:31):
then

yeah, yeah, yeah.

Graeme (41:32):
the fee and all that.
Um, but like, yeah, it's, it'sgetting harder and harder to,
um, get the visa these days.
Like

Really?

Graeme (41:39):
did it was, yeah, it's already, it's already more than
doubled in price since, since,since I'd got my first one.

Hmm.

Graeme (41:45):
And like, you know, with the, with the new, um, um,
president and all that, it's Gotit, it's all these new laws.
Like

Yeah,

Graeme (41:51):
they just, I think they

they're just more strict.

Graeme (41:54):
I think they just blocked like 40 plus countries
from even being able to apply,

Wow.

Graeme (41:59):
know?

Crazy.

Graeme (42:00):
Crazy.
Um, so the one, the expense islike, you know, it's, it's,
it's, it's becoming.
Almost not even worth it'causeof the expense.

Yeah.

Graeme (42:08):
And then like, just comes down to like, who, like
what office do you get the dayof like this selection?
Like they might, you might justget someone that's having a bad
day and it's like, no, no, no.
You know, even, even thoughyou're like, even though you're
fully like, you know,credentialed up,

Yeah.
Oh wow.

Graeme (42:24):
but

Damn.

Graeme (42:24):
like.
Luckily for me, I, I got mygreen card last year, so like I
don't have to worry about thatvisa stuff anymore.
But like I've, I've been throughit and I, and I feel for
everyone that's going throughit, like

It.
Yeah.

Graeme (42:35):
rough one.

Yeah.
Now, coming from Australiaspecifically, do you suffer from
what they call tall poppysyndrome?
Have you noticed that intransitioning from Australia to
to America?

Graeme (42:53):
I've heard the expression, can, can you remind
me what it means again?

So, so basically what they say is like, tall
poppy syndrome is something thatAustralians have where you
basically don't let each otherbe too proud.
It's like, like you kind of getcocky, you know, like, don't be
like a, a tall poppy in thefield.
Like, you need to basicallyreally be humble.
And so a lot of Australians kindof struggle with, with.
Dare I say, maybe celebratingthemselves.

(43:17):
Or like, like allowingthemselves to be like really
proud of themselves where theylike actually have to kind of
tone it down.
Whereas a lot of Americans arelike too cocky.
They think they're the shit, youknow?

Graeme (43:26):
Sure.
Yeah.

Yeah.

Graeme (43:28):
Yeah.
I, I, yeah, I guess so.
Like, I can, I, I can kind ofsee it like I don I definitely
see some Aussies that like getego and all that, but it's like,
it kind of, you know, it's, it'sinevitable in this industry,
like, you know, whatever.
Like, if, if you wanna be proudof yourself, that's fine, but I
feel like.
I feel like when, when ego stepsinto it, it's kinda like you're

(43:50):
just overcompensating forsomething there.
I

Yeah.
Yeah.
But it's, it's, it's aninteresting balance though too.
'cause it can kind of go theother way or it can, the
pendulum can swing the other waytoo, where it's like, obviously
if you're, if you're beingcocky, your ego's too big.
You know, then you think you'rebetter than other people.
Right?

Graeme (44:06):
totally,

at the same time, sometimes we don't allow
ourselves.
To actually own how great wetruly are.
Right?
Like, like, I wanna own the factthat like, no, I'm, I'm awesome.
I'm a badass.
Like I'm great.
Normally we have the other voicein our head saying like, no, you
suck.
You're a piece of shit.
Everybody's better than you.
Right?
So it can kind of go the otherway where there's a, there's,

(44:28):
it's, it's also, I think, goodto own and own our greatness,
and to be proud and to celebrateourselves as well.

Graeme (44:35):
I feel like I should, I should definitely do that more.
'cause I, I, I always just feellike I'm not doing enough,

Uh, mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
No, and that's, that's just sucha real, it's such a real thing I
think for a lot of us, anyonethat is, you know, ambitious and
chasing dreams and goals, andespecially in.
In an industry or just owningyour own business in general.
There's always a million morethings to do.
Like there's never, it is neverenough.
There's always the next level.
There's always 500 tasks Ihaven't completed yet, right?

(45:02):
So when does it actually everend?
And when are we ever actuallythere?
You know, like when, what, whatis the destination where you can
finally be happy and be proud ofyourself?
Right?
There's, it's always, there'salways another level.
There's always like the horsechasing a carrot on the stick.
So if we don't learn how to be.
Happy and proud now.
And feel successful now.
There's the, the, thedestination is imaginary.

(45:24):
We're never gonna get there.

Graeme (45:25):
Well, I mean, like what, what is a destination?
You know?
Like just keep, keep, keepmaking cool art.

Yeah.
I dunno.
What is, what is it,

Graeme (45:33):
really like.

is it for you?
Yeah.
Just make, just keep making coolart.

Graeme (45:38):
Yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, like, I guess so like,as, as long as I can sustain
myself, just make an art.
Like that's, I, I guess that'salready the goal, you

Yeah.
You've, you've already arrived,man.
You're there.

Graeme (45:48):
but like, I don't know.
It's like, like, what else isthere two

Yeah.

Graeme (45:53):
know?

Yeah.
But do you, do you feel likeyou've, you're there, do you
feel like you've arrived or doyou feel like there's still

Graeme (45:58):
feel like I'm there.

Yeah, exactly.
I.

Graeme (46:01):
But like e even, even though like, you know.
I should, I should be verycontent where I'm at, but like,
I'm not, like, you know, it'sweird.

Yeah, it's wild, man.
It's a weird, it's a weird,weird paradox, right?
It's like, if, if success ismaking music every day, being
able to live off of it, right?
Oh, you're there.
You're already doing it.
Yeah, there's still a part, youknow, I think for all of us to,
to a certain degree, there'salso still a part of us that
feels like, well, we're notthere.
There's somewhere else we'resupposed to be.

(46:29):
I think that's the trap.
you know, It's what I callplaying the inside out game
rather than the outside in game.
The outside in game is, well,let me, I.
Drop the album and do the tourand, you know, get to that next
level.
And then I will feel like I'mthere, but we're chasing it
forever versus the inside outgame is like learning how to be
like, wait a minute, no.
Like, I'm, I've already arrived.

(46:50):
I can, whatever feeling I'mchasing the feeling of joy, the
feeling of fulfillment, thefeeling of, of contentment.
It's like, that's actuallyavailable to me now.
I gotta learn how to like,

Graeme (47:00):
Hmm.

be in that energy and in that feeling now and, and
come from that place.

Graeme (47:04):
It's kinda going back to what you said at the beginning
with like celebrating the, likethe wins or whatever, you know.

Yeah.

Graeme (47:09):
Um, but also I, I feel like a huge part of that kind of
plays into like, comparison.
Like you, like you're alwaysgonna like look at your peers.
Who are, you know, doing, doingthis and that, and you're like,
oh, like God.
Like, maybe that's the level Icould strive to, kind of thing.
So like, is that their next goalkind of thing?
Or you know, is that their nextdestination?
It's hard not to compare, youknow?

Yeah.
It's a big one.
You know, I had a big.
A big perspective shift around,around comparison.
Um, and if we, if we get alittle woowoo, a little like law
of attraction woowoo real quick.
It's like when we compareourselves to somebody else and
if we feel.
Any kind of jealousy orresentment around it, like,

(47:50):
damn, they're, they're killingit.
They have this thing, and, and Idon't.
And well then we bring ourselvesinto the energetic vibration and
frequency of jealousy andresentment and basically like
lower level.
Vibration.
And so basically I'm seeingsuccess and I'm having like a,
a, a low vibration reaction toit.

(48:12):
So the universe is like, allright, well you obviously don't
like what you see happening overhere, so I'm not gonna give any
of it to you, as opposed to whenI see somebody, somebody, I
compare myself to somebody and Isee somebody killing it, and
then I celebrate them.
What that does is that brings mein the energy of celebration,
and now I'm at a highvibrational frequency, and now
the universe is like, oh, okay,you're like an energetic match

(48:34):
to what's happening over here.
Let's give you some of thatalso, and I know it sounds a
little bit woo woo, but I alwaysjust say like, fucking play with
try it out for 30 days, man.
Like when you see anyone, you,anyone, you catch yourself
comparing yourself to just likecelebrate the fuck outta them.
Be like hell yeah.
'cause if they can have it, socan I.
Right?
But, but it's, it's, it's such areal thing, man.
Especially.
Yeah.
You're, you're getting billed ona certain.

(48:55):
Layer of the lineup and thisguy's getting billed there and
why, you know, it's, it's awhole, it's a whole head game,
but when you are come playingthe inside out game, it's like,
yo, I'm, I've already there.
I'm already arrived, I'm alreadycelebrating everything and
everyone.
And that ultimately has a resultthat opens up so many more
doors.
And I know it sounds a littlewoowoo man, but try it out.

Graeme (49:16):
I like it.
I, I like it.
Yeah.
I, I feel like I probablydefinitely need more of that in
my life, like

Yeah.
Yeah.
It's huge.
I, I, um.
I worked with, uh, with Sippyfor a little while, and that was
her actually, we're stilltechnically working together,
but speaking of, uh, fellowAustralians, she was one that
we, we worked through the, thetall poppy syndrome.
I was like, sippy, you gotta,you can fucking be proud of
yourself.
All right.

Graeme (49:37):
Yeah, yeah, yeah,

Uh, but that was a big one.
You know, when she came in itwas just like getting caught up
in comparison.
But like, once I introduced herto that, I was like, yo, you
just start celebratingeverybody.
And it was like.
She would hit me up and be like,you'll never guess what
happened.
I just got like the highestoffer I've ever had before, and
we just got booked.
All these more shows and like,all this shit started changing
in her life simply from her,just changing her energy and her

(49:59):
mindset.
So it's powerful stuff.

Graeme (50:02):
I like it.
I like it.

Yeah.
All right, let's wrap it up withthis man.
You know, there's a lot ofartists listening right now that
are, that are coming up in thegame, that are chasing their
goals, chasing their dreams.
Open-ended question.
What advice would you have forany artists out there that are,
coming up and, and pursuing thispath right now?

Graeme (50:24):
There's two sides to it.
I think like, um, same, samekind of answer I've always kinda
given forever Is that, is like,like be present in your local
scene.
Whatever that, I think thatthat's, that's very important.
Make friends with all thelocals, get to know the
promoters.
Like that's, that's a huge onethat's kind of always mattered.
but these days with the, um,with the saturation of like,

(50:46):
everyone's a dj, everyone's aproducer now, it's like, how do
you actually stand out?
I think you just need, reallyneed to like, find your sound
and like find something thatjust hasn't been done or like
slightly different.
Just like you just, or just havelike a unique sound design like.
With all the tools accessiblethese days, like, it's so easy
to become Like just download awhole

Yeah,

Graeme (51:11):
of that someone else has made and be like, learn from
that kind

yeah.
Or get on AI now and have itmake a song for you.
Right.
It's getting crazy.

Graeme (51:18):
like never, we never had any of that when we were like
starting, like we, we, we werejust guessing, you know?
But these, but these days, likeall, like all the groundwork's
done, like you can downloadanything and make it sound good,
like super easy.
so like how do you stand out ifeveryone's good and doing that,
you know?
so it's, yeah, like obviouslytime and, you know, skill and

(51:40):
all that like.
gonna come huge into it, butlike, just finding something
that someone hasn't done is likesaid than done.
Right.
But

Yeah.

Graeme (51:49):
that's kind of it, like, you know, like, how else will
you stand out?
Like

Yeah.

Graeme (51:53):
really?

Just, yeah, make a lot of really cool TikTok videos
and be shitty at music.
That's the other path.

Graeme (52:01):
Well, yeah.
There's also that.
There's also that.
Yeah.

No.
Yeah, man.
No, I love that.
I think that is really soimportant.
It all does really, at leastfrom my perspective.
There's an argument maybeagainst, you know, the
importance of content, whichthat's the marketing vehicle,
but like, you gotta have goodmusic in the first place.
You gotta be bringing somethingunique and interesting and, and
something that's gonna land.

(52:24):
So always stay focused on that.

Graeme (52:26):
that is the reason why most of us got into this in the
first place is like, purely,purely for the music, you know?
So it's like.
If the lines get blurred betweenthat, it's like, uh, like where
do we stand?
You know?

yeah, yeah.
What's the point?
Right.
Well, speaking of music,congratulations on dropping your
album Terra Nova.
Everybody go out there andlisten to it.
It is out and um, and it isfire.
So excited to hear the rest ofit.
I've only heard the first fewsongs that are, that are
released right now, but I'll bechecking it out this weekend and

(52:59):
I hope the rest of you guys doas well.
And, uh, Graham, thank you somuch for jumping on today, man.

Graeme (53:05):
Thanks for having me, man.

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}PHASEONE – Building a Legacy in Bass Music