RIOT - Making The Jump From Support Act To Headliner - Headliner Mindset

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
RIOT (00:00):
one of the most important advice.

(00:02):
That we can give as wellespecially for like, you know,
beginner artists and up andcomer artists who haven't
launched yet.
Take your fucking time.
Yeah

Nik Cherwink (00:22):
what's up everybody?
Welcome to the Headliner Mindsetpodcast.
This week's guest is one of thehottest rising acts in bass
music.
They just released a full lengthalbum on slander and nightmares,
good vibration record label, andare about to embark on their
first ever national headliningtour playing shows all over the
country.
In this episode, we dive intothe pros and cons of being in a
duo.

(00:42):
Their creative process behindcreating a full length album
while also staying consistentwith releasing singles.
The pressure that comes withjumping from being a support DJ
to a headliner, and much, muchmore.
This is riot.
Tom

RIOT (00:57):
Daniel.

Riot.

RIOT (00:59):
Hello.
Hello.

the show,

RIOT (01:00):
Hi there.
Thank you for having us.

Yo, so stoked to see you again.
I had the pleasure of getting tohang out with both of you at
Lost Lands last year.

RIOT (01:09):
That was awesome.

shout out sippy.
She invited me to, to come outas a, as her coach and get to go
behind the scenes and backstageand meet all these incredible
people and artists.
And, um, yeah, you were two ofthe guys that I got to.
Hang out with and bro out with alittle bit out there.

RIOT (01:25):
Yeah.

I, I can vouch that we are talking to two of
the coolest fucking dudes in themusic industry right here.
'cause I

RIOT (01:32):
Thank you, man.
Thank you.

So.
Yeah, I had a blast with youguys out there.

RIOT (01:36):
Yeah.
Awesome.
No, it was a really good time.
We did too.
Yeah.

uh, I heard you

RIOT (01:41):
I heard you just

also

RIOT (01:42):
also played,

We were just

RIOT (01:43):
we were just talking about a second ago.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.

That's the one I've always wanted to go to.

RIOT (01:48):
Crazy.
Yeah.
Very different than, uh, otherfestivals.
We got to play in the, in the USright?
Yeah.
Yeah.
And, uh, even the ride through,like, just getting there was
kind of wild.
Oh, that was, that was such ahustle.
But it was worth every minute.
Let me tell you, man, we flewfrom.
From LA to Seattle, Leonard.
Seattle.

(02:08):
Two hours layover.
Flew to Spokane, spent the nightthere, had a pickup from the
festival.
Drove three and a half hours tolike into Canada, through the
border, and then to our hotel.
And then from there, it wasanother hour to get to the
festival.

Damn.

RIOT (02:24):
was like quite a, quite a trip.
But, um, first of all, all, allthose drive were were amazing.
Yeah.
It's like the scenery beautifulup there.
Like the, like how green it was.
It's the wild.
It's like literally in the wild.
I was hoping to catch like amoose or something.
He asked the driver.
Yeah.
Yeah.

Dude,

RIOT (02:41):
But it didn't happen.

how, how, you know, blessed are you guys to be
able to like, see the world, youknow,

RIOT (02:48):
Yeah.

your music, through your passion, through
your art, through yourcreativity.
I think that that is like somany people's dreams,

RIOT (02:55):
Mm-hmm.

to tour, to play these shows, but also just to
like see all these differentparts of the world that must be
so awesome.

RIOT (03:01):
It is, it is.
Sometimes it's like easy also toget like caught up in the hustle
and the work and the studio andthe shows, but moments like just
driving through Canada and likewatching the nature and like it
clicks for a sudden and you'relike, wow, I can't believe this
is my job.
Yeah.
And also like, you know, it's,it's a bit tricky because like

(03:21):
all this like travel on one endlike that, that's the goal, you
know, that's what we alwayswanted to do.
We wanted to do what we love,which is music.
Yeah.
And we wanted to be, um, like,you know, fortunate enough to be
able to share it with the restof the world and then see all
those places.
But reason why it's tricky isbecause.
Travel is probably like the mostexhausting parts of being a

(03:43):
touring artist.
Like, you know, all those likeairports and drives and lack
asleep in different time zones,which are, I think it's like
stuff that most of the peopledon't really see.
Yeah.
Um, and they're like, oh my God,that's amazing.
Get to travel the world.
And you just see the, the photoshighlights the set highlights,
you know?
Um, but it, it's definitely liketravel is definitely like a, a

(04:05):
big, a big part of like howexhausting it can also be and
how important it is to keep yourmind in the right states and you
know, also work internally to bebalanced.
Mm-hmm.

So how

RIOT (04:18):
So how do you do that?
I personally, like I, when Iknew that this album is coming
and this tour is coming, mepersonally, like I decided to,
like, you know, focus on mydiet, focus on exercising, uh,
meditation, I do recovery, uh,also a couple times a month,

(04:40):
like ice bats.
Also seeing a therapist, becausewhy not?
You can always keep working onyourself and get better.

a

RIOT (04:47):
Um, so this is like, you know, stuff that, that, that
I've been doing, creating somesort of routine.
So when those really extremelifestyle comes in, you're very
much like, you know, you aregrounded and, and like, you
know, it doesn't overwhelm youand it doesn't overtake you in
that sense.

(05:07):
Yeah.

Yeah.
I

RIOT (05:09):
Yeah.

about that.
You know, and it's something

RIOT (05:11):
Something that comes up all the time on this podcast
where it's like, you guys are

kind of like

RIOT (05:16):
kind of like professional athletes.
You know?
Like it's a

Big toll on your body and on your mind and you
know, that was something I usedto always.
know, tell Sippy when I wasworking with her, it was like,
you're, you're like

RIOT (05:28):
like

car, right?
You are

RIOT (05:30):
Yeah,

like,

RIOT (05:30):
like

track of touring and

RIOT (05:32):
your favorite team?

shows.
My favorite

RIOT (05:35):
Favorite one team.
Yeah.
I

I haven't

RIOT (05:37):
haven't been,

this last season, but I, I would

RIOT (05:40):
I would say

a, I'm a Red Bull fan.
I just

RIOT (05:42):
I just love Red Bull in general because

caffeine

RIOT (05:45):
caffeine addict.

love their, their whole brand of what

RIOT (05:48):
of what?
They do

all the

RIOT (05:49):
all

sports and, you know,

RIOT (05:51):
Oh yeah.

just

RIOT (05:52):
I'm just a big Red Bull fan in general.

so I

RIOT (05:54):
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.

for

RIOT (05:54):
That's valid.
That's valid.
Yeah.
Um,

but you know,

RIOT (05:58):
you know, it's just, it's cool to hear you guys talking
about that.

of, uh, yeah, just having those healthy practices
in place because like you said,I think it's something a lot of
people don't realize is, youknow, once you get there and you
realize like, oh shit, this isharder than I thought.

RIOT (06:11):
Yeah, it's really easy to, to a, get caught up in it.
And it's also very easy to getburned out without even noticing
that you're burnt out.
Mm-hmm.
Like, by the time that younotice it, like it's, it's, it's
almost too late.
And you need to like, you know,reroute yourself.
So instead of that also,especially after like, you know,

(06:33):
we started riding in 2012.
Yeah.
We have a little bit of like,you know, experience of, uh, of
touring under our belts.
So like, that's why I was like,this time around I was like,
let's do preemptive actions.
Because I already know what'scoming.
Yeah.
So I'm gonna prepare myself tothe best of my personal ability
to make sure that my mind is inthe right place.

(06:54):
That like, you know, I'm notgetting to be burnt out because
it's like, you know, it, it, itdid happen in the past and it
happens to artists all the time,whether they talk about it or
not.

Totally.
Yeah,

RIOT (07:05):
Yeah.

that's why I'm

RIOT (07:06):
That's why I'm glad that we're.

about it.
Something I talk to my clients alot as well, as far as the
clients that I work with, thatare not yet touring.
I'm always

RIOT (07:14):
I'm always encouraging them, like put those habits in
place now.
Even though you're, even thoughyou're not touring, it's like
start

know, exercising, getting that stuff dialed in,

RIOT (07:22):
having

foundation so that when your time comes and you get
that call

RIOT (07:26):
call,

and you're going to go on tour, you're not
starting from scratch.
It's like

RIOT (07:30):
right?
Yeah,

are just like healthy lifestyle habits that
everybody should be doinganyways, but it

RIOT (07:35):
absolutely.

it becomes like 10

RIOT (07:36):
10 times.

important when you start living that touring
lifestyle.

RIOT (07:40):
Yeah,

Yeah, so

RIOT (07:43):
So

just

RIOT (07:43):
you just said that you guys started

in 2012.
That's 13

RIOT (07:48):
years.
Yeah.
Yeah.

I'd

RIOT (07:49):
I'd love to hear

about your

RIOT (07:51):
about your story, you know,

how did

RIOT (07:52):
how did you guys meet?
How did you guys.

duo?
Give me a little bit ofbackground on how you guys
started this project in thefirst place.

RIOT (07:59):
Well, we both pursued music, in different capacities
before we met, but we were, uh,connected, uh, by my cousin,
which is Tom's like best friendfrom high school.
Yeah.
So he kind of made the link Iwas producing, Tom was already,
uh, an very established DJ inIsrael, so it kind of made sense

(08:22):
'cause I wanted to play shows.
He wanted to make originalmusic.
Yeah.
So we kind of like the combomade a lot of sense.
Also, we got along pretty well.
Yeah.
And that's like, you need thatchemistry.
Otherwise a duo I don't thinkwould, would work.
It's a full on marriage.
Yeah,

Yes.
Yeah, I wanted to

RIOT (08:39):
yeah,

that, you know, as far as like

RIOT (08:41):
yeah.
What are some of the.

the challenges

RIOT (08:44):
Challenges.

with being a duo?

RIOT (08:46):
Oh, it's like a marriage, like the, we, we, we've been
through like, like you said, 13years.
So that's a lot of ups and downsand Yeah.
You know, uh, bad times, goodtimes.

Yeah.

RIOT (08:59):
I'd say like today, the past two, three years, it's been
the, the best.
Really.
Yeah.
The, our relationship Also theproject itself, I think like
every relationship, even whenyou date someone, you know, so
you start dating someone, youget to know them and there's
like, you know, this honeymoonphase in the beginning and then
like, uh, oh, shit, I didn'tknow this and I didn't know
that.

(09:19):
And like, and then how youcommunicate and overcome.
Those hardships.
Yeah.
That's what make actually like,you know, like makes you
stronger and more solid andlike, you know, you overcome
hardships together.
Uh, which, you know, like, likeevery other up and comer artist,
like we had dozen, dozens ofthem.
There are benefits, like also tobeing two.

(09:41):
Um, you can rely on each otherand you go through shit
together.
So even like tough shit, likecanceling a show or, you know,
lose, losing a booking, whateveryou can, it's not just you
against the world in a sense.
Yeah.
You have a button, it's like youhave you, you have each other's
back, you know?
Yeah.

Yeah.

RIOT (09:59):
Uh, if, if, like, you know, so sometimes like, you
know, we, we have, you know,those roles, like, I, so you are
doing more of this and you'redoing more of that, but hey, if
you're lacking on the specificthing that you are doing, so I'm
gonna step in and I'm gonnacover for you, I'm gonna like,
you know mm-hmm.
Fix that situation, uh, to thebenefit of the both of us.
Yeah.
So it's essentially like.

(10:20):
Two individuals coming togetheras one.
Which yes.
Have a lot of PRAs and a lot ofcons in it as well.
You know, you need to, you also,also, the money splits it half.
Yeah.
So that sucks.
Um, yeah.
Um, so that's a sucky part, butyeah, you need to be to, to know
how to let go.
'cause sometimes the reasonwe're both doing this together
is because Tom's good at thingsthat I'm not and vice versa.

(10:44):
And vice versa.
Yeah.

Yeah.

RIOT (10:45):
So, yeah.

Yeah.

RIOT (10:46):
Yeah.
What are the

strengths and the roles, and how do you guys kind
of divide things up?
What does that look like betweenthe two of you?

RIOT (10:53):
I think I can say for sure that like the business side and
the social media, all of that.
And Tom is, that's his likething.
He's very good at that.
Yeah.
And uh, as much as I, I couldgive my input and what I think,
I know that he's very good at,uh, you know, yeah.
Doing that, end of the business.

(11:14):
Yeah, I'm also coming like my,my background, so in my bar
mitzvah actually in Israel, sothat's when like, you know, I
took the money and I boughtmyself my first like DJ
equipment, taught myself how tobe a DJ and essentially like,
you know, opened my firstbusiness when I was 13.
So I'm very much coming fromlike, you know, the performer.

(11:34):
side of things, like performerand businessmen side of things.
And then, um, coming like, youknow, when I was like back in,
uh, 2011, I was like already oneof like the biggest and most
established digit in Israel.
And I was like, okay, I want totake you to the next level.
So I learned Ableton and I wastalking to my best friend, uh,

(11:55):
shout out Jordan.
I was talking to him.
About that.
And he was like, dude, you gottameet my cousin.
Like all he does is likeliterally sit in his like
parents' basement and writingthe sickest beats.

Yeah.

RIOT (12:05):
then he sent me some stuff of his, and I was like, yo, we
gotta meet.
Because I have like so much tolearn.
Like, you know, producing musicis a completely different world
from like being like a, abusiness owner or a DJ
performer, right.
Since this day, like I, I havelearned a lot and I'm still
learning every single day, butthat's definitely like Daniel's

(12:26):
forte, like, you know, what,what he's doing and the way that
he's doing that.
And the fact that we bothacknowledge the strengths, uh,
and the weaknesses of oneanother and how it completes to
the whole, Is definitely likethe key for ideally and like,
you know, wishfully the successthat we're looking for.

Mm.
That's cool.
Yeah, it

RIOT (12:46):
Yeah, it reminds me of, uh,

uh, slander and when they both went to

RIOT (12:49):
Mm-hmm.
Right?

school where I used

RIOT (12:52):
I used to work.

Derek was always, he was more of the producer.
He was like producing just for alonger time.

RIOT (12:58):
Yeah.
Scott was a little bit

the business guy.
He was the people

RIOT (13:01):
person.

that, you

RIOT (13:02):
Yeah.

of.

RIOT (13:03):
Mm-hmm.

more the promoter.
And

RIOT (13:05):
And really how

up,

RIOT (13:06):
it,

were like, all

RIOT (13:08):
alright.

gonna

RIOT (13:09):
Gonna.

first, and then,

RIOT (13:11):
You

know, that's gonna

RIOT (13:12):
that's gonna help us get our music

level.
And then as we

RIOT (13:15):
and as we start playing shows,

use that money to send Scott to Icon.
So they basically had this dealwhere he would

RIOT (13:21):
I didn't know that.
That's cool.
I didn't know that.
They didn't go at the same time.
Yeah.
That's cool.
We, we know them pretty well.
We, we didn't know that.
Yeah,

basically like

RIOT (13:27):
like reinvested.
They're like, let's

money

RIOT (13:29):
the money We're gonna

um, and reinvest

RIOT (13:31):
t

to

RIOT (13:32):
That's really cool.

there so he could get his skills up.
So,

RIOT (13:35):
Yeah.
Also, by the way, we, we, welove them.
Yeah.
We obviously, like, we have twosongs with them.
They're being honestly one ofthe first like, you know, big
acts that supported our musicfrom the get go to really put
them their money where theirmouth is.
Yeah.
It's not just like, oh, play outyour music.
We're gonna hook you up withshows and, you know, stuff like
that.
And this album is also likecoming out on their label as

(13:56):
well.
Slander, nightmares, label, goodvibration.
We're very excited for it.

Totally.
So

RIOT (14:01):
So yeah, shout out Scott and Derek.
We love you guys.

great

RIOT (14:05):
Great.

into the

RIOT (14:06):
an album.

is coming out on,

RIOT (14:08):
Yeah.

label.
So tell me

RIOT (14:10):
Right.
Tell about the album.
uh,

know the story and the

RIOT (14:13):
and the message?

'cause there's a really cool.
theme and story that's tied intoall of this.
So tell

RIOT (14:20):
Tell me about Well, the, it, it all comes, uh, off of the
first album, dogma Resistance,the one up here.

Mm-hmm.

RIOT (14:29):
Oh, this one, right?
Yeah.
Woo woo.
Um, that came out in 2019.
Yeah.
And basically the way we wentabout that album was a bit
different than this one.
We first had like four, Ibelieve, singles out already.
I think so, yeah.
That we then kind of made andcompiled into an album that we
added more tracks into and yeah,kind of tied the story together.

(14:50):
So the concept came after a fewsongs were all, yes.
I think it was like, uh,disorder, IWA Jam.
Fury, the Mob, and Overkill.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
Five songs.
So they were already out andthen we were like, there was
like something in common betweenthem, you know?
Yeah.
Like our music in general, Iwould say is like, like, like a
journey.
It's like very cinematic, like,it like, you know, like takes

(15:11):
you on your own journey, howeveryou would like to interpret
that.
Right?
So the first album, dugResistance came out.
The concept after, like, youknow, pretty much after the
album was already out.
Yeah, it was done and I think weadded like three songs or
something like that.
And some like an intro?
Yeah.
Like interludes, like a bonustrack and stuff like that.
It did very well.

(15:32):
We love that album and likepeople bring it up all the time,
but this time around we, wewanted to do it the way you're
pretty much supposed to is justto hunker down and write

Mm-hmm.

RIOT (15:42):
stuff from the get go.
Yeah.
Which, which was a process.

yeah.
So when you,

RIOT (15:48):
So when you

did

RIOT (15:48):
guys did the first album,

what

RIOT (15:50):
what made you decide to do an album rather than just

leaving those four songs as they

RIOT (15:54):
those as they were.

kind of inspired that idea in the first place?

RIOT (15:58):
I think for me it was always, I grew up listening to
albums.
something like, I like to hearfrom an artist, from a band or
whatever.
To me it was always, album islike the peak, form of
creativity as a musician, in myopinion, where you could bring a
theme, you tie songs together.
It's not just singles or even anEP where it could be like a

(16:18):
mishmash of a few songs.
With an album, you really, youcan.
Get out a message out there,like with a coherent sound and
stuff.
And uh, I know it's not verypopular in EDM, probably today,
even less with attention spanand all that,

Totally.

RIOT (16:35):
but we still decide to decided to do it anyway.
All in, yeah, all in,

it's, it's

RIOT (16:40):
it's really more of an artistic decision.
Yeah, for sure.

we're existing as DJs usually in a singles driven
business, right?
Put out a

RIOT (16:48):
Exactly right.

every month, every six weeks, focus

RIOT (16:51):
Yeah.

one thing.
And so to, I'm always curious

RIOT (16:53):
Curious what inspires to

put out an album these

RIOT (16:56):
these.

Right?
And so it, it seems like it wasmore of a, just like an artistic
decision that you guys

RIOT (17:02):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And it's also, it's somethingthat is very intimate and
personal I feel like, as well,you know?
Mm-hmm.
It's like more so in, in, inmost like situations, if at
least for us, it's like, it's,it's also a lot for ourselves
and not necessarily like forfans.
'cause as an artist, you know,you can play all those shows and
do all this like, you know,viral TikTok trends and stuff

(17:23):
like that, but like, which willgo well and you will play shows.
But I feel like that we almostforgot like the core.
Of art, where it's coming from,what is the meaning of it?
And we wanted to, present apiece of art that we feel.
A thousand percent confident andfulfilled, and I can tell you do

(17:44):
this.
This album that we're working onright now is also the absolute
opposite from dog.
More resistance in a sense.
Like we're working on years onthis album right now.
Mm-hmm.
2019 was Dog More Resistance.
And there are songs on thisalbum that is coming out that,
that are from back in 2020.
Yeah, so like it's during COVIDsome of these were written.
Yeah.
It's, it's been, it's been likevery much a journey, like, and

(18:07):
we decided like to pretty muchgo all in, like all of our life
savings are into this album.
Yeah.
I think we knew even back thenwith dogma that.
After the success of it, wewere, like, we always talked
about, oh, one day we're gonnacontinue the story.
Right.
And like, pick it up and doanother album.
So we just started stacking upsongs like, during COVID and

(18:28):
later.
But yeah, the, the bulk of thework was the last two years.
Two years.
Yeah.

Yeah.
Yeah.

RIOT (18:34):
The two years It was like, you know, like from having like,
you know, drafts and like whipsand stuff like that to actually
like, okay, let's sit down.
Let's crack the code here.
Yeah.
Like the concept, like what wewanna do, where we wanna go,
what do we need.
And during all of that hard workon the album, we also had to
make sure we have enough musicto release, to release that

(18:55):
time, that single every sixweeks.
Like you just said, Nick aswell.
So that was also like, uh, yeah.
Last year for us, we had like arelease pretty much every six
weeks.
How?

how do you decide what's going on the album versus
what you're putting out assingles?

RIOT (19:09):
So the album, um, I think at least half of the songs are
like vocal driven like songsongs.
Mm-hmm.
And.
So the, the goal with that wasvery, uh, you know, thought out.
We were like, we want thesesongs to also speak through the
music, but also to have lyricsto go with, which is something
we didn't do with the firstalbum.

(19:30):
Right.
And the others, like morebangers that we wrote during
that year, we were like, okay,this could work well as a
release or a remix or, yeah.
Or how we can tie it into thealbum with narration.
Stuff like that.
But I would say that thiscreative process in general with
this album, since we were like,you know, first of all, like we

(19:51):
grew both personally andartistically,, and also the
approach coming into this albumwas like, you know, was very,
very cohesive.
You know, so it was

Yeah.

RIOT (20:02):
like, I, I wouldn't say easy.
Nothing was easy about thisalbum, but it was like easier
and very much more flowing.
The process of like, oh, whatgoes on this album and what
doesn't go on this album?
Yeah.
We weren't chasing our tails.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
It was like very clear, like thevision was very sharp, very
clear.

I love this because it's getting me to see.

RIOT (20:24):
It's

it's not one or the other.
Sometimes I, I think about, andI talk

RIOT (20:30):
talk.

of the difference between being a DJ slash
producer versus being an artist,and those are kind

RIOT (20:35):
Yeah, those are kind of two different things

there

RIOT (20:37):
completely,

you know,

RIOT (20:38):
you know, no pun intended, but there is this machine.

you kind of have to feed of like, all right, we
gotta

RIOT (20:43):
Yeah,

music out, we gotta stay relevant.
There's kind of this.
Pressure to always

RIOT (20:49):
Always be putting something to be

out every

RIOT (20:52):
Mm-hmm.

be putting

RIOT (20:53):
Be putting tracks out.
And it's almost like if youdon't like that's kind of the

right?

RIOT (20:57):
Right, yeah.
Then you're not relevant.
Yeah.

And

RIOT (21:00):
And

not the

RIOT (21:01):
not the same as being an artist, which is where you

actually.
You know,

RIOT (21:05):
you know,

expressing that deeper level of creativity.
It's kind of like you're payingattention, not

RIOT (21:11):
not necessarily

in the scene, but you're paying attention to
yourself and your owninspiration and, and your

RIOT (21:16):
Right.

self-expression.
I feel like I've oftentimesseparated those as being, you
know, like while they are twodifferent things.
What's cool to hear is that youguys were able to actually do
both at the same time.
We are going to put tracks outand we're gonna, we're gonna
play the game.
We're gonna

RIOT (21:32):
Yeah, I will tell you that was nearly, nearly impossible.
Yeah.
Nearly impossible.
Hard to do.
Like I don't want people tothink that it's easy.

Yeah.
Maybe do, do you think havingtwo of you made that, made that
possible and

RIOT (21:44):
It

that

RIOT (21:44):
definitely helped.
It helps.
Definitely helped, yeah.
It helps

sure.

RIOT (21:48):
on the, on the planning of things.
Because like Tom is way more ofa think ahead kind of let's have
a plan for the way we work onsongs, the what needs to be done
when, so we hit deadlines andstuff.
And for me it's always like,let's say I need to finish this
song this week.
I go into the studio, I hear onesample off splice that throws me

(22:09):
in a different direction.
And I'm just chasing that now

Yeah.

RIOT (22:12):
I'm inspired.
So it's good to have like thebalance of, okay, I get it.
That.
We're creatives and we need the,like, you can't fight that urge
to work on something thatinspires you, but you also need
to kind of hit the deadlinesand, you know, make sure
everything's ready on time.
Right.

Yeah,

RIOT (22:31):
that's also, yeah, that's something we struggled in the
past.
Yeah, for sure.
Like with, uh, deadlines and'cause, you know.
People like you don't just likesubmit a track a day before it
comes out.
Yeah.
we're very lucky in the sense oflike, uh, we have a really good
reputation of like, you know, Ilike a, our production and, um.
And like, you know, and be ourstreams.

(22:53):
So we, we are very fortunate,like, um, to have like the
flexibility of some recordlabels that we work with.
Yeah.
But in most cases, you need tosubmit a song and wait six to 12
months for it to be out.

Mm.

RIOT (23:08):
know, and even when you have like really good, um,
relationships, like the onesthat we have, we still need to
submit it like six to four weeksout.
Yeah.
And sometimes they let usreplace like the file or
something.
Yeah.
Like two days before we lease.
Oh, can we, we did a mistake.
Can you replace the Buster?

Yeah.

RIOT (23:24):
Um, It's something that you need to learn how to master.
Like I don't think, like, youknow, no one is perfect,
obviously, and this is acreative outlet, but it's very
important to learn the balancebetween the artistic side of the
business and the business sideof the business.
Yeah.

Yeah.
Yeah, It really does seem likesuch a delicate balance to find
and I'm curious to go a littlebit deeper into that with you

RIOT (23:51):
yeah.

'cause I guess on, on the business side, what is
your thought process when itcomes to actually making music?
You know, like,'cause it to acertain

RIOT (24:01):
Certain extent.
It's not like,

it's just

RIOT (24:03):
just like you

just make whatever the fuck we want, right?
Like you're kind of like, youhave a

RIOT (24:07):
have a sound, you have a,

you

RIOT (24:09):
mm-hmm.
What is that difference?

when you're making music maybe a little bit

RIOT (24:13):
a little.

the business DJ producer side versus when you're
like really fully on the artistside?

RIOT (24:20):
I think we're not the greatest example of that because
I think that in most cases, weactually do do what we want.
Yeah.
And, and we are lucky enough,like lucky, it's like coming
from a lot of hard work,obviously, but we are lucky
enough to, to like, you know, tohave the belief and the support
of those record labels thatlike, you know, if, if Riot

(24:42):
sends something.
Also when it comes to ars.
Stuff like that.
Usually like, you know, as an upand comer artist, if you're
watching this, like you sendyour track and then there is an
a and r that's like obviouslylike yes or no, but also like,
hey, what do you think aboutdoing this?
And what do you think aboutdoing that?
Yeah.
We never have those kind ofthings like you, like we send a
track, like this is the track.

(25:03):
And it's pretty much like takeit or live it because that's
coming from within.
You know what I mean?

Yeah.

RIOT (25:08):
our attitude always.
That was a, yeah.
I

love

RIOT (25:12):
love that.
I fucking love that you guyssaid that.
That's just,

just

RIOT (25:14):
that's just my belief, you know?
Yeah, yeah.
There

there are a lot of

RIOT (25:17):
are a lot of artists that are,

they're

RIOT (25:18):
they're taking so much advice.
They're looking at, mm-hmm.
This is the sound that thislabel's putting out, or this is
what the popular DJs areplaying, so

that

RIOT (25:26):
Yes.
Yeah.

you know,

RIOT (25:27):
We were never like that.
That's a catch 22.
Like that mindset.
We, we were guilty of that aswell, because.
By the time you, you're chasinga track, Zomm boy put out or
whoever.
By the time you finish thetrack, that sounds like that one
he's already working on the nextthing.

Totally.

RIOT (25:45):
it's, and by the time it out, it's not relevant.
Yeah, yeah,

Yeah.
It's

RIOT (25:49):
yeah.

it really is a kind of a paradox

RIOT (25:52):
where you

think

RIOT (25:53):
think that, well, I, in order to be successful, and I
think this is what it boils downto, is everybody is in a rush to
succeed

as

RIOT (26:00):
as possible.

So, let

RIOT (26:01):
rush, don't rush.

me chase the

RIOT (26:04):
The trend

you know, the sound, but.
Thinking that that would be the

RIOT (26:08):
fastest

be

RIOT (26:09):
success.

but ultimately by the time you get there, like we
said, it's already outdated.

RIOT (26:14):
Exactly.

you know, maybe not the faster way, but the
real, more sustainable way.
Like, you know, you guys havebeen doing this shit for 13
years, right?

RIOT (26:21):
Mm-hmm.

to really be sustainable is follow your own
inspiration,

RIOT (26:25):
Yeah.

Authentic, you know,

RIOT (26:28):
Sounds, it sounds like a cliche, but it's really true.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
And

I think that's

RIOT (26:33):
I think that's the difference between being an
artist and being, you know,

a

RIOT (26:36):
a,

copycat dj, which

RIOT (26:38):
Yeah.

hate to

RIOT (26:39):
I hate to say it's a lot.
Mm-hmm.

and if

RIOT (26:41):
If you're listening to podcast,

and this isn't your first time hearing it.
By now, you should know.
That's just not the game thatwe're playing.
Right.
We

RIOT (26:48):
yeah.

we are trying to

RIOT (26:49):
Good.

here.
We don't need more regurgitatedcopycat shit, right?
There's a hundred thousand songsbeing uploaded to

RIOT (26:56):
Spotify every day.

we need more art, we need

RIOT (26:58):
We need more authenticity and originality.
So Exactly.
That's, that's the game.

I love that.

RIOT (27:03):
Yeah.

Hmm.
Well,

RIOT (27:05):
Well, uh, okay.

let's go

RIOT (27:07):
Let's go back to this album.
Tell me about the Machine, thisnew album.

is

RIOT (27:11):
is the,

I

RIOT (27:12):
I love, I just wanna say I love the branding.

fucking

RIOT (27:15):
you.
Branding.
You guys have a comic book.
It's all illustrated.
Mm-hmm.

I saw

RIOT (27:19):
I saw you guys have this

incredible merch

RIOT (27:22):
drop that.

it as well.
Like I'm so curious to just knowmore about the

RIOT (27:26):
The actual

and the

RIOT (27:27):
story.

and the message behind it.

RIOT (27:29):
Yeah, so with the first album, the story was, uh, dogma
Resistance, which is the name ofthe resistance group on earth.
That comes together, to fightthe invading force that is the
machine.
Right?
So with this album, we werelike, okay, would it be a sequel
or whatever we were, when wewere, uh, brainstorming about

(27:51):
the narrative of it.
And then we came up with theidea of it being like a prequel
instead, and telling the storyfrom the viewpoint of the
machine.
The creation of the machine

got it.

RIOT (28:03):
and, and like the origins of the machine.
Yeah.
The origins of it.
So yeah, basically the, the, theway this comic book ends is the
opening note of the first album,right?

Oh,

RIOT (28:16):
Yeah.

Okay.
I

RIOT (28:18):
Mm-hmm.

that.

RIOT (28:19):
And then we.

can, can they be played seamlessly?
Then You could play like

RIOT (28:22):
Ah, don't go.
You're going too far here.
You're going too, too far here.
That's impossible to do.
Yeah.
But, um, but yeah, no, it's,it's really exciting.
We, we thought that it would bereally cool to actually go back
in time instead of going forwardto tell like, you know, the
origins of the machine.
So we, we went in that route.
You will hear, first of all,it's, uh, a significantly be

(28:44):
like, bigger album than ourfirst album.
First album was 10 songs.
This album is 15 songs.
No collaborations.
All original.
So it's, it's really, reallyexciting for the people.
Like, there are a lot of Eastereggs within this album that, you
know, like, uh, from the firstalbum for people that actually
like notice those kind ofthings.

(29:05):
There's a lot more.
Attention to detail with thisalbum and the way that it flows
from one song to another, to theinterludes that are in it, to
the multi genre that you have onthis album.
We honestly, like, we, wecouldn't be more excited about
this project.
Mm-hmm.
We'll send you the, we'll sendyou the link once we are done
here, so you can have like alisten to the album before it's

(29:27):
out.

Oh, please.
Yeah, please.
Um, what

RIOT (29:30):
What.

machine?
What is, is this a metaphor forsomething like what does the
actual machine

RIOT (29:35):
Represent.
I think the beauty of it,honestly, it's um, for, for per
listener, it will be anythingfrom your own life.

Hmm.

RIOT (29:45):
anybody could like, relate and find a thing that it.
His or hers like machine.

Yeah,

RIOT (29:52):
We like to keep it like open-ended.
I, I don't, I don't believeartists should like, feed you
the, you know, just translationof their art.

yeah,

RIOT (30:02):
But yeah, I think it's, uh, in general like, you know,
like both through dog resistanceand this one as well.
Like we, we obviously we lovefiction.
Yeah, like, you know, we lovemovies, we like, we like video
games, we love metal.
So it's more for us about likecreating.
A world that like, also like ifyou listen both to dogma
resistance and also this one,you have like two plus minutes

(30:26):
of like intro in which likewe're bringing you into the
world of this album

Yeah.

RIOT (30:32):
it takes you, it takes you.
Yeah.
You know what I mean?
So it like, and also.
At the end of the album, whichwe did also with the first
album, like there is a very kindof like a roll the credit kind
of song.
Yeah.
Its kind of song that is verymuch like not in dm, like it was
like in the first album.
It was like.
Eighties, like disco kind offunky vibe and sense wave kind

(30:53):
of.
And with this one is actuallylike a hip hop, hip hop track.
It's cool, cool track.
So it's like ease you out.
So we capturing you in, you arewith, you are with us for the
next 55 minutes

let's go.

RIOT (31:04):
like let it take you wherever it takes you and then
ease you back out Yeah.
To to reality.
Yeah.

love that.
I, I, I think

RIOT (31:12):
Think.

artists.
Have the vision and the desireto kind of create a world,
create a universe around either,you know, their brand and their
project or around, you know,doing an album.
I think a lot of

RIOT (31:25):
A lot of people have that idea.
Yeah.

but to

RIOT (31:27):
To actually execute.

seems pretty freaking hard.

RIOT (31:30):
It seems

beyond

RIOT (31:32):
beyond just making the music, obviously.

the.
Artwork, like you

RIOT (31:36):
Like you guys

must have

RIOT (31:37):
have

a

RIOT (31:38):
invested a lot.

the

RIOT (31:39):
Oh,

branding.

RIOT (31:40):
of dollars.
Yeah.

That's

RIOT (31:42):
Really.
I'm

about.

RIOT (31:42):
about what does it actually.

to, you know, actually

RIOT (31:45):
Actually fund

know,'cause you know, in the, on the

RIOT (31:47):
the old days,

a record

RIOT (31:48):
a record label, and you get a million dollar contract
and they're paying for mm-hmm.
Everything.
And then they, they make all themoney after that too.

yeah.
But

RIOT (31:57):
So for this one, for this one, it is actually like, it
will be a good opportunity toshout out Matt Meny.
He's been working with us, uh,he have been working with us,
um, for quite a while now.
He did the first album with usDogma Resistance.
The comic also came with thecomic book.
Yeah.
So he's a creative director, uh,together with us, uh, for this
album.

(32:18):
So we sat down there is a fullteam.
Of like, you know, writers that,that came on this project.
By the way, the, the, let mejust say this.
Yeah.
The writers, it means the comicbook, not the music.
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,

yeah.
You're like, we wrote that shitourselves.

RIOT (32:33):
yeah.
So that's, that, that, that's animportant note.
But yeah, there is anything fromlike, you know.
Team of writers to the story, tothe art, to the colors, to the
letters, to the cover art, tolike, it's, it's, it's like then
bring it to visuals for shows aswell.
Yeah.
We also did like a package ofvisuals.
Like,

Is this an agency that you guys hired that,

RIOT (32:54):
uh, it's an individual, um, he's like, his name is Matt
Meny.
But I think that he's brand.
Hero projects, that's his brand.
Um, that's like, you know, that,that, that's what, that's what I
do.
That's a bread and butteressentially.
So he actually works with like,uh, writers and uh, uh,
animation people.
He was a team.
Yeah.

(33:14):
He's like the, the, the, the,the chief, uh, like, you know,
he's the project manager.
And we're, we are incommunication with them, like
pretty much on a daily basis inmore than a year time now.
Like doing mood boards for everychapter and what is this chapter
talking about and like whichsongs are going to come out
before the album and what theyrepresent.
Yeah.
Yeah, honestly, huge, huge, hugeproject.

That's so

RIOT (33:37):
That's so cool.

again, I think so many people like, you know, have
that idea, maybe I have thevision, but then it's like, I
don't know, you're trying tomake

RIOT (33:43):
Make it yourself,

know,

RIOT (33:45):
know?
Mm-hmm.

you know, it's

RIOT (33:46):
It's like how do you actually make it come to life?
Like to make it

at

RIOT (33:50):
at that level.
It's like, yeah, you gotta, yougotta work with the team.

know, you really

RIOT (33:53):
Right.

you

RIOT (33:54):
Absolutely.

and you gotta hire other people.
And I think,

RIOT (33:56):
I think I

about that

RIOT (33:57):
about that a lot as being like headliner mindset.
I,

There is the

RIOT (34:01):
the bedroom producer mindset,

is,

RIOT (34:03):
is

everything

RIOT (34:04):
everything by myself.
Mm-hmm.

I do the mixing and mastering by

RIOT (34:08):
By myself

the artwork by myself.
I, I

RIOT (34:10):
by, do you know It's

that you can't scale that way.

RIOT (34:13):
right?
Yeah.

this other level of, when you really are becoming
a headliner, it's like, yo,we're talking about teams,
creative teams,

RIOT (34:21):
Yeah.

like management teams.
It's like running a

RIOT (34:25):
a

that

RIOT (34:26):
business.

is, uh, about.
Teamwork and partnership andinvestment and delegation.

RIOT (34:32):
Yeah, you can't do it all.
But also it's like every otherbusiness, Nick, you know like
when you have a business and thebusiness is growing, like you
need to invest more money intothe business in order to grow it
even more.
you know what we invested inthis album is probably five
times more than what we investedin Dog resistance.
Financially, I'm talking about,right?

(34:53):
Yeah.
So back then, but the five timesmore that we invested into this
album.
Was hard for us to do as much asit was hard for us to do, to
invest a fifth back in the dogmaresistance days.
Yeah.
You know, so it's like, yes,five times more than money, but
like how important it is toactually like, you know, pour
and invest into your a like art,like both financially, time, you

(35:18):
know, uh, sweat, blood tears,you name it.
Yeah.
Like, it's, it, it's, it's hard.
It's part of like, you know,being an artist and also being a
business owner.
Mm-hmm.

Yeah, yeah.
Because you know, right withthe, the investment, there's a
difference between an expenseand an investment.
An

RIOT (35:33):
Yeah.

is something that we're just spending is kind of
going out the window, but

RIOT (35:36):
Window.

is like, all

RIOT (35:38):
Like we're gonna put,

but we're

RIOT (35:39):
we're also gonna hopefully,

back.
Hopefully we're gonna make itback by 10.
Right.
You guys put in

RIOT (35:44):
yeah.

you

RIOT (35:46):
Hopefully, man, I, that I,

Yeah.

RIOT (35:48):
gotta happen.
Yeah.

you

RIOT (35:51):
But yeah.

are, you guys are also, um, doing a tour around
this as well

RIOT (35:55):
Right.
Yeah.
Yeah.

is a big reason as an artist in the electronic
music space, you know, as muchas it is a singles driven
business, and you can obviouslyjust be, you know, touring by
putting out singles when you putout an album, it gives you a
really great opportunity tolaunch a specific tour around
that album.
That is something that you guysare doing and, um, would love to
hear about that.
Is, has that started yet?

(36:17):
Or you guys are

RIOT (36:17):
You guys preparing.

the tour?
When's

RIOT (36:19):
Um, so our first headline, uh, date is actually like this
weekend, which is a day afterthe album release.
Um mm-hmm.
Which is very exciting.
Um, Dallas.
Uh, Dallas.
Yes.
So that's the, that's the,essentially that's the first
time that we're doing somethingoff this scale.
This also something thatstrategically was.
Through very, very well.

(36:40):
Like as of like two years ago,like we started to have
conversations about that.
That actually lead to a strategythat, for example, like there
are some cities that we decided,decided like we got offers.
And also something to talk aboutfor up and common artist.
Like, you know, when you get.
Like shows offer, like when youeven secure an agency to begin
with and then you get an offer,you get so excited and it's like

(37:02):
obviously like a yes, butthere's also an art that like is
the art of saying no.
Hmm.

Mm.

RIOT (37:09):
And B, also more strategically about that.
And I can tell you that in thepast, like year and a half, or
almost even two years, westrategically declined offers
because we were building forthis tour because we wanted to,
when people see us, to actuallylike a, get the full vision.
And get the maximum experiencethat we can provide to them as

(37:31):
fans that are supporting buyingtickets, buying merch, streaming
our music.
We wanted to give them somethingmore than just like, oh yeah, we
love your music, so just come tomy city and I'll watch you play.
We invested.
Tens of thousand dollars onthose visuals, tens of thousand
dollars like on this like comicbook and storyline behind this
album.

(37:52):
And honestly, like, I, I think Ican talk for both of us that
like we couldn't be more proudof this project and we couldn't
be more excited to share that inreal life with, with our fans.

Yeah, let's go you guys.
I'm fucking excited for you.
That's so cool.

RIOT (38:07):
Thank you man.
Thank you.
And I love.

lesson of like, yeah, like saying no really
building demand also like, and,

RIOT (38:13):
Yeah,

it from a place of like, Hey, we, we want, I wanna
give you the

RIOT (38:16):
the best.

it's

RIOT (38:17):
It's gonna take a little bit longer.

actually

RIOT (38:19):
It's the thing as an up and coming artist, also, it also
hurt, uh, a little bit for us tosay no to some festivals because
we were like, okay, in a yearfrom now, we're seeing ourselves
in a way better spot.
Like career wise.
Yeah.
And what we, what we're worth.
So we're gonna say no to thatfestival today,

Yeah.

RIOT (38:38):
uh, knowing that by a year from now Yeah.
We're gonna get a better offer.
Only we're be now only fewmonths ago.
We don't need to name names andstuff.
Yeah.
But only few months from now, wegot a, our first offer to play a
main stage at a big festival.
Big, big base festival.
Yeah.
So that, so that's the f like,you know, and as an artist, like
that's your dream, that's whatyou dream of, right?

(38:59):
Yeah.
To get like a main stage offer.
And that was the first time thatwe got that.
And that's the first time wealso said no to something of
that like magnitude, you knowwhat I mean?
Wasn't easy.
Uh, and that was like, we werelike, like we were looking at
each other like, are we insanefor doing this?
Yeah.
Like that's what we've beenwaiting for.
But at the same time, like yes,strategy and thinking like, you

(39:21):
know, ahead, like, you know.
Thinking about like 10, 10 stepsfrom now.
Not about like right here, rightnow, but actually building
something sustainable that isgonna be long lasting.
Because that's what's, that'swhat we wish for ourself, you
know?
And there is like, you know, areason like if you go in this
route, then yes, you can havesuccess, but your success is

(39:43):
going to be very short term.
Or you build a foundation andyou take your time and you
create your own sound and yourown voice, and it's definitely
gonna take longer.
Oh, absolutely.
Like 13 years as in a shortamount of time, you know?
Yeah.

I, I love

RIOT (39:58):
I love.

this so much though because you know.
I'm coaching artists, I'mtalking to artists every day.
Artists are reaching out,wanting to work with me, and,
and it's like

RIOT (40:06):
Like,

I see this common trend just back to that desire
for success and wanting it tohappen so quickly

RIOT (40:14):
Now,

now it's like, I wanna happen, I wanna happen
now.

RIOT (40:17):
now

started producing.

RIOT (40:19):
doesn't work like that.

eight months.

RIOT (40:20):
Months.

ago.
And I'm now, I'm putting out mymusic and I wanna blow up.
And I'm like,

RIOT (40:24):
Yeah.

you gotta, you know, everyone is focusing.
I feel like there's this race

RIOT (40:29):
race to the bottom

everybody is

RIOT (40:31):
is focusing so much on

content and building their audience and I
gotta post every day and it'sall this anxious energy and I'm
just kind of bringing it back tolike.
What are you

RIOT (40:41):
energy.

in the first place?
What are you

RIOT (40:43):
Right.

to the table?
I'm like, let's bring it back tothe music.
Just a lot of

RIOT (40:47):
Right.

is, is half baked because you're putting so much
pressure on yourself to be like,I gotta be putting something out
every single fucking month.
And

RIOT (40:55):
Mm-hmm.

you're not actually giving that the time
that it deserves to really

RIOT (41:00):
Especially

your.
craft, develop your artistry,develop your sound.
Actually really make somethingthat's gonna make a fucking
difference, because

RIOT (41:07):
that's crucial.

better

RIOT (41:08):
true.

is, the easier everything else becomes.

RIOT (41:12):
That's so crucial.

in the first place, it's like you gotta be
really good at marketing, but

RIOT (41:16):
Yeah.
Yeah.

shit is, it's like it makes the rest of it

RIOT (41:19):
Going back, going back to 2012 like now looking back, we,
we, we were exactly that.
Exactly that.
Yeah.
We were like, we, we are ready.
Let's go like tomorrow and mainstage like we're waiting on, on,
on the fucking phone call.
Right?
Yeah.
Like, like we, we are ready.
It's happening.
But actually it's so crucial thepoint that you brought up

(41:39):
because like, it doesn't workthat way.
If, and if there is like,honestly, like one of the most
important advice.
That we can give as well islike, especially for like, you
know, beginner artists and upand comer artists who haven't
launched yet.
Take your fucking time.
Yeah, take your time.
Like, don't have like fuckingfive songs that you think that

(42:01):
are going to change theindustry.
Have 25 of them before you eventhinking about launching your
project and because that way.
Um, like, you know, since wepretty much feel like since we
saw the project 13 years ago,like now we're not in that
place, but for a decade, prettymuch it felt like we're always
chasing our tail.

(42:22):
Yeah.
Always chasing our tail.
Finish one single.
Right.
Before.
Before and, and if, and if we,and if we were more patient
Yeah.
Back in the day, like it, likewe wouldn't, we would've like,
you know, like we could havebeen in a completely different
place right now.
Mm-hmm.
And have a completely differentconversation, you know?
Yeah.
Just

can't be a great artist without

RIOT (42:42):
Without giving it the time that it actually takes to be
Absolutely.
Exactly, absolutely right.

Right.
And, and not

RIOT (42:48):
And not to say like,

shouldn't

RIOT (42:49):
shouldn't put your music out.
You know, like, yeah.
But

is just

RIOT (42:52):
it's just like everybody is focusing 80% on like

and content and building their audience and 20%
on the music, and it's like,it's gotta be the other way
around.
Like

RIOT (43:01):
Right.

90% of your time on the music, at least in the

RIOT (43:03):
I,

until

RIOT (43:04):
also.

the point that it's actually really going to be
able to do

RIOT (43:08):
To do something.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I also feel for, uh, like up andcomers, uh, today it's, it's
harder with, with likeabsolutely.
The market, being oversaturatedwith artists that are doing the
same kind of quarter note rhythmor whatever.
We feel that as well.
It's hard.
Yeah.
As an up and comer, like, as, asan like, I don't know, call,
call us an established up andcome Right.

(43:30):
We, we, we still, we feel thosethings.
Yeah.
We still are, we still feel likeup and come is Yeah.
In our, in our own way too.

Mm-hmm.
you

RIOT (43:36):
do you guys feel,

you know, as much as you are up and comers, you

RIOT (43:40):
you are, are successful and at a certain level.

you know, you're, you're, doing a

RIOT (43:45):
Mm-hmm.

tour, you know,

RIOT (43:47):
So

would, I would

RIOT (43:48):
I would know,

still, you know.

RIOT (43:49):
you know,

level to get to, but you're definitely not up and

RIOT (43:52):
sure.

but, but

RIOT (43:54):
But at the level that at now

do you guys

RIOT (43:56):
you guys, uh,

like,

RIOT (43:58):
like,

I guess what

RIOT (43:59):
I guess what kind of pressure.

do you feel at

RIOT (44:02):
At that stage,

like,

RIOT (44:03):
like this is your livelihood.

are, a

RIOT (44:06):
at a certain stage of success,

kind

RIOT (44:08):
kind of

challenges and pressure do you notice come with
that?

RIOT (44:13):
Well, definitely selling tickets in a headlight tour.
I think, yeah, I think that thestage that we are right now is,
um like, you know, you can'tavoid that, but it is also like.
The most stressful time in yourartistic career, and I'll
explain why.
Because you know, when you're anup and comer or like a beginner

(44:34):
like artist and you're playingshows, you mainly play like, you
know, support shows for biggerartists and you're playing like,
you know, you have festivalslots, but you're playing very
early, usually open the, thestage and stuff like that.
But when you kind of likebecome.
An established artist, likethere's such a big jump that you

(44:54):
need to go over in order toestablish yourself as an
established artist, and thatjump is jumping from support and
opening slots into a headliner.
And this is like the craziestjump that you'll probably do in
your career.
Yeah.
And the scariest one as well,because it changes everything

(45:15):
now.
Like when you play a supportit's the craziest fun you can
have.
Yeah.
Because you have zeroresponsibility.
Yeah.
And in most cases you're playingto like such big crowds because
of the headliners.
And you've taken your check, soit's like it's a win-win
situation for you.
Yeah.
If the show doesn't do well,it's not on you.
It's not on you.
And like becoming a headliner.

(45:37):
Which is a crucial moment inyour career.
It's also the scariest onebecause this is all the
responsibilities on you.

Mm-hmm.

RIOT (45:46):
now it's the first time we're doing like, you know, a
headline tour like we're doingright now.
We have 14 support acts on thistour to even bring more value.
Yeah, we did, like, we spent somuch on like, you know, bringing
like this comic book and visualsto life in order for people to
like, you know, actually get themusic, but also.
Like get the full story on thescreens as well.

(46:08):
But at the end of the day, likeif we did all of that and we
cannot sell tickets, because atthe end of the day, it's a
business, like every otherbusiness.
Yeah.
And it's like, you know, it'ssupply and demand.
Uh, as easy as that.
So the pressure of sellingtickets and, and how much is
important to support like thoseup and come artists and on their

(46:29):
headline tours is becausethere's so much that it's
actually behind the scenes thatpeople are not aware of.
Right?
Like we announced it to wherelike 30 plus headline dates tour
all across North America, and westill have people be like, why
do you hate us?
Why are you not coming here?
And I'm like, I, I want to.
I, I really want to come there.

(46:50):
You know, I really want, there'snothing more than we would love,
than travel the world and playour music to people that loves
our music, and we're a part oftheir day-to-day life, you know?
But at the same time, like the,the, the, the general public
needs to understand that it's abusiness and their is supply and
demand.
Do you want to see your artistat your hometown?

(47:12):
Then interact with their socialmedia, comment, share, tell your
friends, tag your localpromoters, and raise the demands
in order for that to be enoughfor them to reach out to our
agency and book a show.
Yeah.
And also like when you seefestivals, for example, um, I
don't think people know that,but like the time slot that you

(47:33):
have in the festival, more than90% of it is directly impacted
by the amount of tickets thatyou sold on your headline tour.
In that club in a, in, in theregion that this club or
festival.
Festival is at festival.
So if we're playing Seattle, forexample, so that's have directly
affected TacomaDome to BaseCanyon, you know, like if you're

(47:57):
playing like around Ohio forexample, then that's direct
effect to Los Lanes if playing,um, like Miami or Florida in
general.
So that's direct effect toultra.
So that's, that's what they lookat.
Yeah.
That, that's, that's how those.

ticket

RIOT (48:12):
Mm-hmm.

shows

RIOT (48:14):
Exactly.
Yeah, exactly.
You know, and also like people,like, I've also mad like, why
are you playing so early?
I wa I wasn't even able to gothrough the doors.
Yeah.
And I'm like, I, I'm, trust me,I wanna play prime time.
But are you willing to put thework as well in order to help us
get there?
Or you just want to complain?
Mm-hmm.

What can headlining artists do to help
increase the

RIOT (48:39):
Increase

and sell tickets to their

RIOT (48:41):
the shows.
I, in a perfect world, I wannatell you to speak through their
music, but like, unfortunately,like, you know, we're in a day
and age that social media, likepretty much took cover the world
in every way, shape, or form.
And it's a constant battle forus, even on a daily basis.
You know, like I can tell youthat we can't really relate with

(49:02):
everything that is going on withsocial media.
We're also not young.
Both of us are 35, you know, soit's very unnatural for us, but
we're still trying to find away, to be relevant on those
platforms.
We, in the past year, like, youknow, we grew from 70,000
followers on Instagram to almost150.
We grew from a thousandfollowers on TikTok to 77,000

(49:25):
followers on TikTok based onmusic post and based on music,
which is the hardest thing todo.
Yeah.
Without doing all those, like,you know, cringy TikTok trends,
TikTok dances, comments like,you know.

huge.

RIOT (49:36):
So that's,

I, I really love though that you pointed that
out.
'cause that's where a lot of

RIOT (49:40):
yeah.

with social media is they're like, I don't

RIOT (49:42):
Yeah.

on here and fucking do some cheesy shit.
So

RIOT (49:45):
Mm-hmm.

able to do that really when you, you said

RIOT (49:48):
said

through music posts.
So can you elaborate on

RIOT (49:51):
on that.

What helped you grow and, and also stay
authentic to just really makingit about the music?

RIOT (49:57):
I think for us it's uh, a lot of, uh, clips from shows or
from the studios.
Even the ones where you werefilming, like behind my back.
Yeah.
Stuff like that.
For example, one of thosevideos, I think it was
Redemption, it blew up.
Yeah.
But we filmed like six of five,five other different songs and
none of them did as well.
So you can never really, oh myGod.

(50:17):
Pinpoint the formula.
The guts of the algorithm arework in mysterious ways, but
this is also the thing.

that's the thing though too,

RIOT (50:24):
Yeah.

not just the gods of the algorithm, but you made
fucking six videos.
You

RIOT (50:29):
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah.

a

RIOT (50:31):
Of people

are maybe

RIOT (50:31):
are maybe,

one video and then wondering like, oh, it didn't
work.
Fuck the

RIOT (50:35):
and also the,

no, go do 10 more, you

RIOT (50:37):
it's a numbers game.
The con, the constant war, theconstant internal word that you
have with yourself every time.
Like, you know, I can tell youthat most of the clips that went
viral for us, because like wehave.
We have almost 300 millionstreams, uh, like on across
like, you know, uh, musicplatforms and also like on
social media, we have tens oflike millions.

(50:58):
Um, but I can tell you that inmost cases, the stuff that we
didn't think that will work blewthe fuck up.
Yeah.
And stuff that we were certainthat will go viral, completely
flopped.
Yeah.
So like I, the best advice thatI can give, it's like it's send
and forgets.
Try to not like, it's, it's easyto say and hard to do, but don't

(51:19):
overanalyze and don't let itbring you down.
Mm-hmm.
Just like send and forget.
Next, next, next.
Always look at the biggerpicture instead of right here,
right now.
Because at the end of the day,all those.
Songs or tracks, or pieces ofsocial media content or one
piece of the puzzle.
Look at the entire puzzlebecause it's like, it's a

(51:40):
hundred thousand pieces puzzle.
Yeah.
Not just like a 10 piece puzzle,you know what I mean?

Yeah.

RIOT (51:45):
Um, so yeah, don't overstress and like, try as much
as possible.
Don't overthink, don't compareyourself to other people because
that's, that's not evenrelevant.
Yeah.
Like, you know, we are allartists and we create our own
music.
There is no way that someonewill do what I have inside my
brain.
What Daniel?
Side his brain.
So there is place for everybody.
I don't look at it ascompetition.

(52:07):
It's, if anything, it's, it'slike I love to seeing people
succeed, especially people thatI know personally.
And I root for them.
Like there is genuinely placefor like, it's not that someone
come on my expense on, I come onsomeone else's expense.
Yeah.
You know,

I love that.
I love that

RIOT (52:25):
I love that you that last part up because you know.

as an artist coach, and whether I'm working
with someone who's

RIOT (52:31):
Who's

up or

RIOT (52:31):
up

I'm working with a, a touring headliner like

RIOT (52:34):
tour like yourself?

is one of the

RIOT (52:36):
One of the most common

things that

RIOT (52:37):
things that I see.

with is comparison.
Right?

RIOT (52:39):
Yeah, right.
Why is this person

up, or why is this person they got booked, you
know, higher than we did?
You

RIOT (52:44):
good for them?
Fuck yeah.
Exactly.

that's always what I bring it back to is celebrate
them, man.

RIOT (52:49):
Yeah.

enough room to go around, there's a space for
everyone.
So that, that shift in that

RIOT (52:52):
Mindset is always one of the biggest one I'm offering,
which is

to

RIOT (52:56):
to celebrate,

When you

RIOT (52:57):
When you're living in the energy of.

like you're

RIOT (53:00):
You're very different life and creating

results and when, when you're living in the

RIOT (53:03):
the energy of

me, I'm a victim, why are they

RIOT (53:06):
Yeah.

like

RIOT (53:07):
And and also let it inspire you.
Yeah.
Let it inspire you to, to get tothat place.
You, it should make

totally.

RIOT (53:13):
harder, basically.
Work harder and becomeundeniable in your art.
Like, that's the way I alwayslooked at it when it comes to
like, the music side of it islike, I'm just gonna get.
To be the best at it.
At, at what I do, try to, to bethe best.
And at some point it becomesundeniable.
And I think that's true forbusiness, sports, whatever

(53:34):
analogy you wanna fill in theblank.
Yeah, yeah.
You work hard, you put in yourmoney, your time, and you get
very good at what you do at yourcraft, which is and don't give
up, which is also a very, very,very important advice that I can
give because there's obviouslylike there's.
Like, I dunno, millions of likevery, very talented young

(53:57):
producers out there that like,you know, like you said, Nick,
like they want it, like theywant it and they want it now.

Yeah.

RIOT (54:05):
it doesn't work that, that like, that way.
And the, the, and the thingthat's, I think the frit between
people that actually make it tothe people that not is the
self-belief that you have withyourself.
Like take, be patient and createyour own voice and sound.
But also don't give up.
Yeah, don't give up.
Keep at it.

(54:26):
Keep at it.
Keep at it.
Like, look at us like we're 13years, like on this project
alone.
And I think like that's, that's,um, that's a point where people,
most people will be like, fuck,it doesn't work.
Like I quit.
Yeah.
Even earlier.
Yeah, for sure.
For

sure.
Well, and I

RIOT (54:42):
I think

Part of

RIOT (54:44):
part of this also has to be, and correct me if I'm wrong,
but

it's like, you gotta

RIOT (54:48):
you gotta love this shit.

too.

RIOT (54:49):
Yeah.

You real, it's like that's the only thing
that's

RIOT (54:51):
That's really gonna keep you in is, it's like

I, I'm

RIOT (54:54):
I'm hearing obviously it's like,

consistent, Keep.
Working

RIOT (54:58):
working at it.
Don't give up.
Also like,

really love that you said it's just

RIOT (55:02):
just like become

un undeniable.

RIOT (55:04):
Mm-hmm.
There's

Stop looking for the quick fix.
Focus on becoming the best youcan possibly be, and that talent
is gonna be undeniable.
That

RIOT (55:12):
mm-hmm.
Consistency,

be what gets you there.
But

RIOT (55:15):
but also I think, you know,

gotta

RIOT (55:17):
gotta love this shit.

It's like

RIOT (55:18):
Yeah.
Right.

if you

RIOT (55:19):
Don't love it.

just, you're in the

RIOT (55:20):
You're in the wrong game.
If you lose the love for it,you're never gonna succeed.

You're not,

RIOT (55:25):
yeah.

You're not gonna stick

RIOT (55:26):
Yeah,

Well, I will

RIOT (55:28):
Well, I'll say

guys

RIOT (55:29):
guys are absolutely

unfucking deniable.
I'm

RIOT (55:32):
Thank you.

for the new album that's dropping.

RIOT (55:35):
So excited.

tour.

RIOT (55:36):
You guys are listening.
Go

check

RIOT (55:39):
check out the dates and you.

a bass music fan and you want to go get fucking
crazy and you want to go ridethe rail, or whatever you young
kids are doing these days, uh.
Raya is a group you are notgonna want to miss.
So go check out their tour datesand make sure that you catch
them.
Make sure that you're engaging,you know, in social media.
And, uh, just super excited

RIOT (55:58):
Excited for you

you

RIOT (55:58):
guys.
Thank you.
Taking the time to come on and Ihope I get to see you again
soon, so I know you're notcoming to Austin, but

gonna, we're gonna see each other again at some
point.

RIOT (56:07):
for sure.
Thank you for having us, Nick.
Always awesome.

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RIOT - Making The Jump From Support Act To Headliner

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}RIOT - Making The Jump From Support Act To Headliner