January 8, 2024 • 53 mins
In this episode, I am joined by Dr. Patty Ford, who is a doctor of public health, an eating disorder registered dietician, and a Habit Finder coach. Together, we embark on an enlightening expedition, unravelling the knotted threads of food addiction and emotional connections to our dietary patterns, particularly in relation to those with chronic illness.
With each individual's dietary odyssey as unique as their fingerprint, we discuss the symphony of societal, environmental, and subconscious factors that orchestrate our every bite. We emphasize the importance of honoring our body's signals and embracing a holistic approach that marries mind, body, and spirit. Join us on this insightful voyage, and let Dr. Ford's wisdom guide you to greater healing, through a more mindful relationship with food and self.
Dr. Ford's website and contact info: https://www.drpatriciafordwellness.com/
Dr. Ford's Instagram: @dr.pattyannford
Website: www.kellybhaney.com
Email: info@kellybhaney.com
Instagram: @kellybhaney
Facebook: Kelly B Haney Wellness
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
Welcome to the Heal and Stay Healed podcast, where
we talk about healing and, moreimportantly, staying healed from
chronic disease and otherailments and issues.
We'll cover all the crazythings about health and life the
good, the bad, the ugly and thehilarious.
My name is Kelly and I am asurvivor and overcomer of severe
(00:31):
autoimmune disease, and I can'twait to share with you what
I've learned so that you canheal and stay healed too.
Thanks for listening and enjoythe show.
Hi friends, thank you forjoining me for this episode of
(00:54):
the Heal and Stay Healed withKelly B Haney podcast.
I am so excited for our guesttoday.
She is Dr Patty Ford, and DrFord comes to us as an expert on
a wide variety of topics.
She is a doctor of publichealth and preventive care, a
certified eating disorderregistered dietitian and a habit
(01:15):
finder coach.
Dr Ford completed her BS inkinesiology at University of
Maryland College Park.
She earned her Master's ofPublic Health and Registered
Dietitian License at Loma LindaUniversity, and she obtained her
doctoral degree in preventivecare in 2012.
Presently, she has her ownprivate coaching practice,
imagine Wellness, where shedisrupts patterns of thinking,
(01:39):
propelling her clients forwardto reach the life of their
dreams.
In our conversation today, wetackle the huge topic of food
addiction, particularlyaddiction to highly processed
foods, and how they can conflictwith truly moving into a
healing and health promotinglifestyle.
Besides the fact that thesefoods are designed to be
(02:00):
addictive, with their crunch andpoof sensations a term that we
will expand on we talk a wholelot about the mind-body
connection and the essentialrole that emotional healing
plays when it comes to ourrelationship with food, the
major role that things likegrief work and uncovering
childhood food experiences playin healing and, very
(02:22):
interestingly, dr Ford shareswith us the commonalities that
she sees the most in people withchronic illness.
We also touch on the importanceof listening to your body and
positioning yourself to hearwhat it has to say.
Dr Ford shares a lot with ustoday, and I'm certain that
you'll find a lot of interestingnuggets and takeaways that you
(02:43):
may find yourself thinking aboutwell after the episode ends.
So let's get going.
Here we are with Dr Petty Ford.
Welcome, dr Ford.
Thank you.
I'm happy to be here.
So I already introduced you tothe audience and I shared a
little bit about your bio, butlet's start off.
Can you just explain what is itthat you do in your day to day,
(03:07):
and why do you do what you do?
Speaker 1 (03:11):
So my elevator speech or short answer is I improve
and untangle people'srelationships with their food,
body weight and eating, and dayto day, I talk with people all
day long.
So I'm in conversation, whetherit be with clients who have
(03:34):
retained my services, versusnavigating new relationships,
cultivating those relationships.
So a lot of conversation, thenowning your own business behind
the scenes, doing admin work.
So it depends upon the day, buttoday was admin work and
conversation.
In the morning I have you and Ihave a client later this
(03:56):
evening.
Speaker 2 (03:57):
Nice.
And why is it that you do whatyou do?
What inspires you to do it?
Speaker 1 (04:02):
I think I feel I have been coaching and counseling
the word.
I have loved being in people'sspaces since I was really little
and I didn't really know that'swhat I loved doing until maybe
about three years ago.
I was like, oh, this is calledcoaching.
This is like a thing People canactually make a living out of
this.
I can make a business out ofthis.
(04:22):
So I love learning aboutpeople's stories and then using
my skills, how I can impacttheir story or influence their
story to better their health.
Ultimately, Awesome.
Speaker 2 (04:33):
What's your favorite part about working with your
clients?
Speaker 1 (04:38):
Such a good question.
This question always makes mefeel funny about answering it
because it sounds like I lovelistening to people's pain.
And I love listening topeople's pain, I love listening
to what makes them unique.
I think everyone has a story,everyone has what's happened to
(05:02):
them, and I think that's myfavorite part, because it makes
everyone so unique.
And that's where the story is.
I know there's a culture ohgosh, they have pottery and they
actually break the pottery andthen they fill the pottery, they
put it back together and thenthey fill the breaks with gold
(05:24):
and they say that is actuallyworth more than the original
pottery.
So they literally had to breaksomething and put it back
together and then it's worthmore.
And I just kind of love thatanalogy.
I love the.
Okay, let's tell me what youreally think.
Like that's a really niceanswer, but I really want to
know what you're actuallythinking.
Speaker 2 (05:42):
Now, that's beautiful and it sounds twisted to say I
like hearing people's pain, butI get it.
You like hearing it because youknow that that is a huge step
for them to tell you what theirpain is, because then you can
assist them in healing that pain.
So that's amazing.
Speaker 1 (05:59):
Yeah, and I think also having someone to witness
you without judgment.
I mean, if you can think aboutthe people in your life who can
you actually be yourself withwithout feeling judged or
evaluated, or they're not tryingto fix you Like I can think of
maybe one person for sure, andthen the rest would be like
maybe this person, maybe thatperson, so sometimes you don't
(06:22):
have that in their life and I'mable to step in and be that
person that they can feel reallysafe with.
Speaker 2 (06:27):
Well, I can already say thank you for doing what you
do, and I'm sure that's onbehalf of all of your clients.
But before we get down to moreserious business, let me ask you
a few more lightheartedquestions so we can get to know
the Dr Ford a little bit better.
What is your favorite superfood?
That's always my favoritequestion.
Speaker 1 (06:48):
Yeah, and so I'm going to throw a wrench into it,
where I love all food which issuch.
It's not a caveat, it's notlike let me get out of this
question.
I do truly believe that allfood can provide value in some
way, whether that be nutritive,physical, also emotional and
(07:09):
spiritual and social.
Food has so many components toit.
In terms of foods that havenutrients, this is a hard one, I
would probably.
I love the diversity of quinoa.
I think you can use quinoa inso many different capacities.
I personally have a lot ofindigestion with quinoa, but I
(07:30):
love how it can be so diversefrom breakfast to lunch to
dinner.
But I love when you're talkingwith people and they get to
explore it.
It's a really fun food.
Speaker 2 (07:43):
Yeah, it's a fun thing to introduce people to it
and they're like quinoa.
What is this?
That's what my husband calls it.
Speaker 1 (07:52):
He goes do not serve me that quinoa.
Speaker 2 (07:56):
Yes, dear.
Okay, is there a favorite quote, short poem or music lyric that
has positively influenced youthat you'd be willing to share
with us?
Speaker 1 (08:08):
So my initial response went to I love Albert
Einstein and he says yourimagination is your preview of
life's coming attraction.
And I think Albert Einstein wassuch a stud, Like he was such a
scientist but also had a lot ofsoul, where, I mean, he's
talking about something that youcan't really prove, like you
(08:29):
can't really prove someone'simagination, and humans are the
only ones that have, likespecies that have, the gift of
imagination.
Animals don't.
They're very present, but wecan actually like close our eyes
and like go somewhere else, andwe can do that to our dismay.
But we also can do it in a verycreative way where you can like
dream of something and make ithappen.
(08:51):
But I think a lot of timespeople get stuck, where you
dream of something and then youget stuck or you don't know how,
which I know is a big theme ofwhat we're going to talk about
today.
But yeah, so I like that quote.
Speaker 2 (09:02):
Nice, I like that too .
That's really good.
Do you have another healthpromoting book, documentary,
influencer or another podcast torecommend to us?
Speaker 1 (09:13):
I'm going to be selfish and promote my book,
which isn't even ready yet, butit's going to be coming out,
hopefully in 2024.
I'm co-authoring it withanother physician who spent his
career in addiction and rehab,and so it's called you and food
and it's a different take.
It's not going to be a what toeat, it's more of how to eat.
(09:34):
So I'm going to promote that.
And then I just discovered apodcast called maintenance phase
.
It's definitely a little can becrass, a little rough around
the edges, but it's two peopletalking about kind of culture
within the diet industry.
So I just discovered it and Ireally did, like my first
(09:54):
experience.
I've listened to one podcast.
So take that with a grain ofsalt.
Speaker 2 (09:59):
Awesome.
I love those recommendations.
I love checking out newpodcasts, but I also love that
you mentioned your book, becausewe're going to keep a close eye
on that, because it soundsawesome to me and you're going
to have to keep us posted onwhen that becomes fully
available.
Speaker 1 (10:15):
I think the whole world's going to know, don't
worry, but yes.
Speaker 2 (10:20):
Okay, dr Ford.
Well, let's get down to someserious business here.
We have a lot of good things totalk about today, and I think
you and I have a lot in commonin what we do in our belief
system.
As you know, I'm all abouthelping folks heal and stay
healed naturally, especiallythose who have chronic illness
or disease, and a big part ofthat is encouraging a healing
(10:45):
diet that focuses on eating real, whole, nourishing foods and,
by doing so, shunning non-realfoods that are not conducive to
healing, like highly processedor ultra-processed foods, foods
with added refined sugar,chemicals and preservatives, etc
.
But what I've heard many timesis that a big thing, or the
(11:08):
thing that gets in the way ofpeople who are trying to change
their diet into a healing diet,is addiction, food addictions,
sugar and highly processed foodaddictions, to be specific and
that really derails them overand over.
So in thinking about thisproblem that I keep coming
across with people, I'mrealizing more and more that
(11:31):
many of these foods areliterally designed to be
addictive, so it's no wonderthat people have a hard time not
eating them and giving them up.
I'm really curious to know whatare your thoughts on all of
this and what are yourrecommendations for people who
are in this situation, who areready and willing to do whatever
(11:52):
it takes to truly heal fromtheir chronic disease or illness
, but are just struggling withthese addictions?
Speaker 1 (12:00):
Oh yeah, so this is, I mean, what a loaded question,
or like where to start.
So I think if you kind of lookat the topic, you have different
layers.
You have the food itself, thephysical properties of the food
and you had mentioned.
You know they're designed toincrease palatability
(12:22):
consumption.
You know the purchasing of them.
I mean, there's so much thatgoes into food marketing and
food politics so you couldreally live in that land or that
conversation for a really,really long time.
Marion Nestle is a fabulousauthor and she wrote a book a
while ago called Food Politics.
(12:43):
I'm guaranteed she has severalmore out there which really
opened my eyes in the businessof food and I never thought, I
mean, this was what year are wein?
This was 20 years ago where westill were in like a food
pyramid and not a plate, youknow.
So it's just so many differentthings in politics.
And then the nature of food,how it's designed, where you
(13:08):
know the Cheeto or things thathave like a back crunch and then
the poof where they kind ofdisappear.
Yeah, that's designed in such away where it's so pleasurable
and we continue to consume.
So it's a brilliant marketingscheme.
I mean, if you look at it.
Their goal is to make a profit.
They're doing a really, reallygood job.
Their goal is not necessarilyhealth.
(13:29):
So you kind of have to look atit's not necessarily like the
food isn't doing anything wrong,per say, it's making money, and
that's the whole point of whyit exists.
So I don't think we want tolive in that land.
I mean, you can talk about thedifferent qualities of food, but
(13:49):
one of my favorite is OK,humans.
They're the ones that have thebrains and they're the ones that
get to decide what to buy andhow to eat it.
And there's so many layers ofwhy and how people choose food.
So one is habit.
They've just done it for solong and they don't even think
(14:09):
about it.
Like, if you think about, youknow habits that I have in my
life.
One of the first things I do inthe morning is I really like to
brush my teeth.
If I don't brush my teeth, Ican tell and, but I don't think
about it.
I don't think, OK, in fiveminutes I'm going to brush my
teeth, I'm going to take thistoothbrush, I'm going to.
You know, I just I've beendoing it for so long.
(14:29):
It's a habit and so sometimesthat's food.
For some people, they haveeaten certain foods, certain
types of coffee, certain typesof creamer for so long they
don't think about it, they don'thave to measure it, it's just
autopilot.
So a lot of times you're upagainst habits, and habits are
very hard to break unlessthere's enough motivation and
(14:53):
that can be a topic in itself orthere's enough pain, or there's
enough inspiration, you knowkind of whatever.
When someone is ready to change,they're aware and they're they
are ready to change, Thenthere's OK, how am I going to do
that?
So who buys the food in thehouse?
Who prepares the food?
Do they have access to the food?
(15:16):
And then, when they're eatingthe food, how is their eating
environment?
Who is their support system?
What is their digestion like?
What is actually happening inthe body after they eat it?
And then, is all of thissustainable for long term?
We didn't even talk aboutfinances, we didn't even talk
(15:39):
about spirituality.
So there's so many differentfactors on what you eat and how
you eat it, and can you do itfor healing purposes.
It's so hard to say okay, well,why am I addicted to food?
What's the answer?
It's like oh gosh, it's sodifferent for everybody, right?
But I do think there are twodifferent directions.
(16:00):
We could go as we could talkabout the food or we could talk
about the person's experiencewith said food.
So that's a really long answerfor to start with.
Speaker 2 (16:12):
So you're telling us there's no simple and
straightforward Right?
No, that's what I'm gettingfrom that.
Yeah, okay.
Speaker 1 (16:21):
Yeah, I don't think there is a.
Okay, let me give you the moneyanswer, or else you know I
would be sitting on a jackpotfull of money because I had the
answer to food right.
Then there's pharmaceuticals,like what medications are you on
that's gonna affect the foodsthat you're having, are you
(16:41):
taking you know?
So there's oh gosh, I couldenter like five more factors in
here that would affect yourrelationship with food.
Speaker 2 (16:49):
So if we just searing in I love what you phrased as
the crunch and poof yeah, thecheeto like crunch and poof.
Yes, that's exactly what thatis, Because it's not, you know.
I mean you hear sugar addictionall the time, but it's also
salt and crunch addiction andjust like that thing that
processed food, highly processedfoods, give us that you don't
(17:12):
necessarily get in a banana or acarrot.
You know carrots crunch alittle bit but it's not the same
.
So if we're searing in on justthat, in terms of being addicted
to that crunch and poof or thatsweet flavor, I mean, what is a
good first step?
And this is assuming, let's justassume, for the sake of
(17:34):
argument, that we're talkingabout a person who has a support
system, who has financial means, has the desire.
They have their why, which issomething that I talk about a
lot so they have.
They're motivated either bypain, like you said, or by just
a strong desire to heal or toget off medications, or ideally,
(17:56):
both.
For that person who's juststruggling with the plain and
simple, I can't stop eatingthese foods because I'm craving
them.
Very generally, what is going,what is potentially going on
with that person and what canhelp them?
Speaker 1 (18:11):
So addiction is fascinating and I've learned a
lot with my co-author.
There's definitely a process inthe brain and this was his idea
.
It's in our book but it'scalled drives and decides.
There's the drive to eat.
There's this we actually havethe need to eat.
We are driven to eat by hunger,by different hormones there is,
(18:37):
you know, there's so manythings that go into I'm hungry,
I'm deciding to eat.
Now the decides is okay, whatam I gonna eat and how much?
And then you actually have toengage in the behavior.
It's very dualistic.
You either eat it or you don't,and so what goes into that
(18:57):
actual decides?
The food addiction part of mewould I got when you were.
I was like picturing this personin my head.
I was like I would wanna knowwhat is the experience like for
them as they're eating it.
What are they tasting?
What memories pop up?
What are they feeling?
If you look at the sense oftaste, we have five senses we
(19:19):
see, we hear, we touch, we smell, we taste.
It's such a powerful sense andeven when we went through the
pandemic it was fascinating.
When people lost their tastebuds, they lost their sense of
taste, they lost their smell,they didn't wanna eat anymore.
It was like the desire, thedrive to eat was gone, and it
was.
They lost the sense and I gotreally curious about it.
(19:44):
In all the research, if youlook at, the number one reason
people eat is for taste, and soit's this sense that sometimes
we lose our connection to.
So when I was thinking of allthe factors they're controlled
for okay, why would someone feellike they're addicted to food?
I would really wanna understandwhat's happening in your
(20:05):
experience when you have thecrunch and poof.
What is that like for you?
And there's always a connectionto in my experience, to a
childhood experience, or thissense of like bliss that they're
trying to avoid this pain.
There is something happeningand the brain does two things it
avoids pain or wants pleasure,and so it's just creating
(20:29):
awareness that this crunch andpoof is a pleasurable experience
.
Are they willing to delay thatpleasurable experience?
And you have to have apleasurable experience, similar.
You can't just take away thepleasure that is gonna be.
I mean, you can do it for alittle while, but then
eventually you're gonna say,okay, I just gotta have the
(20:51):
crunch and poof.
What else can you do that issimilar to this pleasure?
Can we teach you how to do it.
Can you withstand a little bitof this?
It's gonna feel painful to nothave it like this comforting.
Can we do something else?
My time with when I worked witha bariatric surgeon, there was a
(21:12):
lot of actually grief work withI'm grieving that I'm not gonna
be able to have this food aftersurgery and it was actually
really fascinating.
We had actually with one clientI'm giggling because it sounds
like funny in nature and wegrieved their relationship to
cake, we grieved theirrelationship to Cheetos,
(21:36):
whatever, where it was like I'msaying goodbye to this and I'm
letting it go.
And it was actually goingthrough the grief process
because they knew they loved itbut they wanted to let it go to
continue on their health journey.
When I'm working with chronicillness clients who are
suffering from chronic illness,there's sometimes this grief of
what has been.
Grief of I wanna be able toenjoy the foods that I used to.
(21:59):
Grief of.
I don't wanna accept that.
This is my reality right now.
So I'm just gonna keep goingand keep being in pain.
And so it's a lot of navigatinghow they're feeling about it,
which stems from thoughts, whichstems from belief, which is
where I like to live.
Speaker 2 (22:18):
So, even if you have a why sometimes well, not
sometimes you still needwillpower.
Willpower is still going to beinvolved.
You can have a why.
You can have every reason inthe world for why you need to
change the way you eat.
It may be literally to saveyour life, but that still
involves willpower, and what I'mhearing you say is for people
(22:39):
who are truly addicted to thefoods that they want to let go
of.
There's actually a griefprocess involved.
Speaker 1 (22:47):
Instead of willpower.
Like holding onto something sotightly because eventually you
get tired, think of it as moreof a surrender.
And I lost my father a year agoand this just naturally,
organically, came up.
Like if you're holding ontosomething for so long, it's
really hard to let go.
And so it's this surrender oflike, okay, I'm willing to let
(23:12):
it go, and that makes me sad andthat makes me, oh, I have to
feel that I'm so, not my father,but if you're going through
like chronic illness, I'm reallysad that I have this and that's
okay.
Like both can happen.
Like in therapy sometimesthey'll say like two truths can
happen at the same time.
Like I can be sad that this ismy reality and this is my
(23:38):
reality.
What can I do to move forward?
So it's like both and.
But sometimes people aren'twilling to let go of that food.
It means too much, it's toovaluable.
They think if they let go theycan't move on.
And so it's just findingperspective in that, where the
food will always be there butyou don't have to interact with
it if you don't want to.
Speaker 2 (24:00):
So I guess the term comfort food what I'm going to
say is it's real, oh yeah,that's more than just a term.
Like it really, like people,legitimately, you said, if you
connect it to childhood memoriesand when you say that is it
like, oh, my grandmother used tomake this, or my mom would make
it every Christmas, what doesit mean?
Speaker 1 (24:19):
Right, it's different for everybody.
I've heard stories where, youknow, I had one client who hated
a certain dish.
She hated it.
It was so disgusting.
So it was just kind of like,okay, well, what does that feel
like to you?
What does that taste like?
And actually what it was was anexperience, a reminder of an
experience, where she was forcedto sit at the table to eat this
(24:40):
dish.
I can't exactly remember whatthe dish was, but she would sit
there for hours.
She was a kid and she was madeto sit at this table for like
six to eight hours and shecouldn't leave the table until
she finished this food.
But I mean, this girl isstrong-willed.
She put her heels in the ground, she sat there for eight hours
and people were living theirlife and going on ignoring her
(25:02):
and you know, as a mom, youthink what that war child up and
that is a form of abuse, that'sa form of neglect, and so she
learned to hate this food.
Now, that's not comforting,that's more.
You know, distaste Sounds likediscomfort.
Her story, right, Her story inher mind was well, I don't like
any food because of thishorrible experience she had.
(25:24):
So comfort, it could be relatedto anything.
It could be related to.
You know, this is what my dadloved and I loved my dad.
This is what, you know, mybrother and I had when our
parents got into a big fight andthat made me feel good.
So sometimes we're not awarethat that's what that is until
(25:45):
you have the space to explorethat a little bit.
And a lot of times it's justasking someone well, what does
that taste like to you?
What does that feel like to you?
It's the experience of theCheeto.
What is it about the Cheeto toyou that is so enjoyable and
it's different for everybody,which is the fun part for me.
Speaker 2 (26:06):
Yeah, I bet it's like an interesting investigation
every time.
Speaker 1 (26:10):
It is as a dietitian.
People always just want to betold what to do.
I don't know how many timespeople have said oh, I don't
really care, just tell me whatto do.
The problem is is you haven'tdone any of the underlying work,
so you'll do the what for alittle while, but then you're
going to go back to what youactually want to do, not what
(26:31):
the other person is telling youto do so if you really want to
make this a lifestyle change,you do have to look at what are
your beliefs, what are youthinking about it, how are you
feeling about it?
That will help the change to bea true change and not just like
a six week thing.
Speaker 2 (26:53):
It seems to all just come back to that.
What is your why?
What is that driving forcebehind why you want to do this
and why you are doing this?
Because these are going to beharder than others.
Speaker 1 (27:05):
Some meals are going to be harder than others, so
yeah, and so if you think about,like, when people have a life
scare, they like a heart attackor something that you know like
a near death experience.
That is so motivating becauseit's painful, it's scary, and so
that kick starts it.
And then you start to see, ifpeople don't actually look at
(27:26):
their, the why would be okay.
What do I believe about it?
What, how do I think about it?
What are my emotions about it?
Sounds like if you're able tonavigate that, then that scare
was the ignition to change.
Yeah, and I've seen peoplewho've come in here and said,
well, my doctor says I have tobe in here because I just had a
(27:46):
heart attack.
The why is they're here isbecause someone else is telling
them what to do.
They actually don't want to doit.
Yeah, yeah, a lot of timeswe're in session and I'll be
like do you actually want to behere?
And there's no judgment.
They'll think, no, I don't wantto do this.
And I'm like okay, awesome,like, how does that feel to say
and just to own that you don'thave any intrinsic desire to do?
(28:10):
this on your own, and I thinkyou're right.
It's like, okay, well thendon't do it.
Yeah, yeah, they want to do it,yeah.
Speaker 2 (28:19):
It sounds funny to say this, but I feel fortunate
now that my situation was direenough that I had my instant why
I wanted to survive and Ididn't want to get horribly sick
again and I was out of myhorrible flair that I was in for
a year.
I was in remission but I wasfaced with it was time to.
(28:40):
I needed to come off theimmunosuppressant drugs.
So that threat of, as soon as Icame off those drugs, getting
sick again was right there andthere was my why it was.
It was naturally presented tome as as a gift.
Yeah, because that beginning ofthe healing journey is is hard
(29:02):
and having a really solid why Ithink is absolutely essential if
you're going to be reallysuccessful.
Speaker 1 (29:10):
Well, and it's almost .
It sounds like you have so muchlike for lack of a better word,
I'm just going to say traumafrom that, like near death
experience.
You're like I'm not even goingto entertain not doing this, I'm
not even going to entertain notliving this way, right, it
wasn't going to think about it,yeah.
You feel like I don't even havethe choice, right when with
(29:34):
people are still navigating thatcrunch and poof, the choice is
still there.
It's like, well, I've gottenaway with it before, so I can
still do it.
And I like to call those typesof thinkers like diet rebels,
like they like to kind of playwith fire a little bit.
And so it's, it's a skill, it'sa, it's a superpower almost,
(29:54):
because they're willing to thinkoutside the box, they're
willing to be very creative, andso it's really trying to say,
okay, well, if you, you know,you don't like rules that don't
make sense, let's come up withyour own rules, you know, let's
come up with your own diet.
And they think, oh, okay, allright, well, I'll do it, I'll do
it.
Then they just don't want to betold what to do necessarily.
Speaker 2 (30:17):
Yeah, it's a lot harder when you don't have a
serious situation, but thatdoesn't mean you can't come up
with a really solid why that'sgonna motivate you and drive you
, even if it's not Life or deathliterally.
So it's.
It certainly can be done.
It's just a little bit of aharder path.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (30:34):
Well, even in entrepreneurship, they'll say no
.
You're why?
Because when, like, business ishard, you know, are you still
gonna show up to work orwhatever?
And I like thinking about likeyou know business or you know
diet can be the goal.
And then the dream is time withyour family.
I mean, like I don't think yourdream is to have the perfect
(30:55):
diet dream is to survive andhave time with your family, but
not survive, but thrive, right,you don't want to feel like crap
spending time with your family.
The diet is a goal, it's justthe vehicle to get you there.
And so sometimes I think, whenpeople put Dieting and health on
this pedestal as the dream,like I'm really thinking when
(31:16):
you're on your deathbed you'renot gonna be.
Like I'm so glad I ate quinoa,but the quinoa got you to 96
years old where you did have afull right.
Speaker 2 (31:30):
I'm glad we circled back around to quinoa.
Yeah, that was good, okay.
So Taking a step back andthinking about everything we've
talked about so far, it's justfurther evidence of the mind,
body, spirit connection.
It's just all connected.
We can't truly heal and stayhealed from chronic illness or
(31:53):
disease Without looking at theentire picture, even when it
comes to just stopping eatingCrunching poof, right.
Speaker 1 (32:02):
I have a client.
She has horrible IBS and shehas done everything by the book
and flares just keep happeningand keep happening.
And so she, we're workingtogether to just really explore
what's going on underneath her,her psyche, kind of what is she
believing about?
The food Comes, come, come ofit.
(32:23):
She was navigating a lot ofgrief with some loss, with some
infertility, and so she neededspace to release that.
She's at a space now where she'sstarting to realize, oh, dairy,
I thought maybe okay, maybethat was just me being really
restrictive, let me try it.
She's like oh no, dairy isdefinitely causing flares, like
(32:44):
so she's in this kind ofexploring phase, but it's coming
from a really intuitive place.
Versus, I've got to throw awayall my donuts, I've got to throw
all, all like away all theCheetos.
It's let me try it and let meactually figure out what is
working for me now and a lot oftimes what works today is going
(33:05):
to be different tomorrow, whenyou're in that exploring phase.
So it's really almost like AA.
You just take one day at a time, like the Serenity prayer, and
I, you know, just surrender tothis is what's my journey right
now, and take it one day at atime.
Speaker 2 (33:22):
Yeah, I think for me a lot of the times.
My goal is just to you, getpeople to start paying closer
attention and just being moremindful, because I think a big
part of the problem is we don'ttake the time to just Sit and
think about what we're eating.
And then how do we feel an hourlater or the next day?
(33:45):
And I think, our body I Believethat our body is constantly
trying to communicate with us,which is not Always open and
ready to hear what it has to say.
Speaker 1 (33:58):
Yeah, I love that.
So think like listening,listening, like if I'm listening
to you I can't do anything else.
I can't multitask.
I mean you can, but it meansthat I'm not really listening to
you, nor my present with ifsomeone was in this room and so
listening to your body, youcan't multitask, you can't do
(34:22):
both.
The brain isn't set up that way.
So in order to pay attention, isyou do have to be quiet and you
do have to have someintrospection and you do have to
sometimes ask yourself the hardquestions, which is so hard,
and our culture, where everybodyhas an opinion about nutrition
(34:43):
and Health and even, like youand I have navigated this for so
long, but everybody else has,like there's just so much
information and so I obviouslydon't know everything, you don't
know everything, but we havesomething to offer and do we
have something to offer for you?
If you're listening, where youknow, what can you take and then
(35:07):
apply that to your journey.
Whenever I've worked withhealth professionals and they
think they know everything andthey think they have the answer
for everybody, I'm always verycautious, because that's it's,
that's very arrogant and it'svery like wait a minute, how,
how, how can you possibly thinkthat one way of eating or one
(35:30):
Product or one potion works foreverybody, like that's.
That's crazy, yeah, and it'snot logical.
So I would be very cautiouswith those types of marketing.
Speaker 2 (35:43):
Yeah, bio individuality is.
Yeah, it's a big word with abig meaning and it's for me
personally.
There are some things that Ibelieve are gonna be beneficial
for everybody.
When it comes to the generalstuff, yes, but once you dig a
little deeper, yeah, everybody'sbody is different.
Everybody's gut flora isdifferent.
(36:04):
Everybody's past and emotionalissues and trauma, yeah,
different.
Everybody's spiritualexperience is different, and
it's just.
I 100% agree with you.
There is no, unfortunately,there is no one-size-fits-all
approach to this, which is why Ithink it's so important to be
(36:25):
listening to a lot of differentthoughts and opinions and, like
you said, taking away thosenuggets that Really sink in,
because the ones that hit youthe hardest are probably the
ones that you need to bethinking about the most.
Right, I know it works.
Speaker 1 (36:40):
Yeah, I was.
So I have my own kind of mentorand coach and he was telling me
something and I was like, oh, Idon't like that and it's like
dang it.
That means I probably be payingattention.
Yeah, and I think also therewas another position I loved
following.
I can't remember.
I have to his name will come upthat he is a specialist in
(37:04):
obesity management and he willsay Take a good look at the
culture that you're in.
And we literally can't like ifsomeone said, oh, change your
culture, I can't, I can't dothat overnight.
That's like changing where Ilive, who I hang out with, like
that's a.
I mean you could, I could getup and leave, but I'm not going
(37:24):
to because I anyway.
Your culture has a huge effecton the choices that you eat.
If everyone around you iseating fast food, it's so hard
not to eat it because everyonearound you is doing it, and so
if you're really really wantingto change, for healing, it's
gonna take a conversation or atleast a community for support.
(37:48):
Otherwise you're gonna gettired of being the only fish
swimming against the grain.
It will be just really You'refighting a big battle, going at
it alone and we really can't dothis life alone, so you're gonna
want to find some supportsystem if you're wanting this to
be long-lasting, for sure.
Speaker 2 (38:06):
Yeah.
I mean, I've heard that phraseso many different ways, like
yeah, I'm out with three smokersand you'll be the fourth.
Hang out with three drinkersand you'll be the fourth.
You know it's just.
Yeah, it's really really hardto fight and shout out to my
husband who, from day one, hasbeen just like completely and
totally supportive.
You know, from that first daywhen I said I got to change
(38:29):
everything.
I got to change everything andI'm ready to do it.
Yeah, right on board with me.
What?
What about those folks whoaren't in that situation?
When you, when you say, changeyour, change your culture,
change, change your network,what is that practically Look
like?
Or at least what are somepractical steps that?
Speaker 1 (38:49):
it can be if you're home, like your immediate home,
life is so different than what,what you had to live.
Finding a support group,finding a community, whether
that be a therapist or coach orpractitioner we're so connected
now on Either social media or,you know, the internet finding a
safe community where they dosupport your goals, they do
(39:14):
support what you're trying to doand You're you are not the only
one going through this, I canguarantee.
So.
Finding other people that haveare living, have lived what
you've lived and can point youin a support group or direction.
And that might take, you know,some digging around.
It might take being vulnerableenough to share your story,
(39:35):
being, you know, vulnerableenough to own that.
This is something you arenavigating, because hiding it or
living in shame, that's likeyour ego being being very, very
loud and so which I've done,everybody's done.
So.
Finding a space where you notfeel like I think, the more and
(39:58):
more I've worked, when you havegroup support, the biggest
feedback is I didn't feel alone.
I didn't, I was finally feelinglike I'm not the only one going
through this, and that feelingalone is very motivating.
So if you're immediate familyor the immediate people that
you're with aren't supportive,go find a different room.
(40:21):
Go find and maybe that is not aquick fix, it might take some
time, but that is really reallyhard to change if your immediate
support system is not going tosupport you enough.
Speaker 2 (40:34):
I mean, I'm just dreaming of a perfect world
where, if you're in thatsituation and you still go out
and find your supportivecommunity and then your
immediate family is seeing howmuch healthier and happier you
are, you're going to convertthem over to healthier habits
themselves.
Speaker 1 (40:50):
Yeah, I mean, I think sometimes that happens just by
nature and sometimes it doesn't,where it depends upon, I guess,
the relationship, if it's achild growing up and then they
can move out, if it's spousal.
That's really really, really,really hard and sometimes having
those conversations of I don'tfeel supported.
This is what I need to besupported.
(41:12):
Are you willing to do that,having those conversations?
And sometimes people say no andyou are on your own.
So I commend you if you aredoing that.
It's very hard.
Speaker 2 (41:23):
Yeah definitely the harder path.
Yeah, all right.
So I want to just go back intalking about the mind-body
connection and when we talkedabout the idea of dealing with
food addictions and facing themhead on.
There's a lot of goingbackwards and being more
introspective about people'spast and people's trauma, and
(41:46):
you had mentioned grief.
Are there other emotions thattend to come up when people look
backwards in this way?
Speaker 1 (41:56):
Yeah, I think, of trauma.
So a lot of times when I workwith addiction or hard
relationships with food, theretends to be trauma, whether that
be sexual trauma, neglect,abusive trauma.
You know, just kind of traumacould be anything that the brain
(42:17):
didn't expect.
So it doesn't have to be wecall it like big T, it doesn't
have to be this textbook.
I was burned at the stake, itcould be a car accident, it
could be something where youjust didn't expect that coming.
A lot of times in my practicewith I work a lot with body
image and weight.
(42:37):
There was something happenedearly in their life where their
weight or the shape of theirbody size was how they determine
their worth as a person.
And so in chronic illness I seea lot of emotional suppression.
I see a lot of they weren'tallowed to feel, no one has seen
(42:59):
them before, and that's reallycommon now in today's society,
especially with kids who spend alot of time on screens or their
parents are busy on screens.
The validation of just being aperson is getting harder and
harder and harder.
One of the tools that I like touse in my office and this feels
(43:23):
kind of like tarot cards, butit's not tarot cards A lot of
times we'll spend time and I'llask someone, okay, how does that
food make you feel?
Or how does that something withfood, body weight or eating, how
does that make you feel?
And people will tell me a story, rather than an experience, and
I'll say, okay, great, thankyou for the story.
Tell me how it feels, what'sthe temperature of what you're
(43:46):
feeling, where are you feelingit?
And a lot of times, like peopledon't get it, like it's like,
wait what I'm asking you to?
Just tell me what you'refeeling in your body.
And when people get therethey'll say, oh, my gosh, I was
feeling anxious.
I was feeling anxiety is a bigone with food out of fear, fear
(44:08):
that the food is going to causeharm, especially with gut,
because the gut is changingconstantly, and they're afraid.
If I have this, I'm going to bein pain for the next six days.
And the hardest part about thatis anxiety decreases the
digestive process and it alsodecreases a hunger cue.
(44:30):
So here you are now, exposed tothis food in real time and in
like two seconds, your body andyour brain get this whole
message of fear.
So now I'm not hungry, now mydigestion sucks and I haven't
even eaten anything and it's a,it's a Cheeto, so the Cheeto
isn't going to really helpdigestion anyway.
(44:51):
So you see a lot of fear, angst, kind of nervousness, so you
think, a lot of emotions thatcause distress, a lot of
emotions that will disrupt, kindof the homeostasis.
When you're experiencingpositive emotions, we typically
feel more calm, typically notall the time.
(45:13):
There are some, like histrionic, where positive emotions cause
disruption too, but with chronicillness usually it's emotional
suppression or a lot of fear.
Speaker 2 (45:25):
Yeah, wow, that's really interesting.
I think it's safe to say thatanyone who has a chronic illness
, really it's really importantfor them to really look at their
emotional health and any traumafrom their past.
By the way, for all the readingand studying that I've done on
trauma, I don't think I've everheard it distilled down to the
(45:47):
way you, just to what you justsaid.
Trauma is anything that thebody didn't expect.
Yeah, you said yeah, so thinkwow.
Speaker 1 (45:56):
It could be.
Even I had.
I was in my office and I worksometimes alone.
Someone had come in I didn'texpect and it totally scared me
and I didn't feel safe and I waslike, oh my gosh, that affected
me for like the next four orfive hours now.
Did it disrupt the rest of myday?
It wasn't PTSD trauma, but itdefinitely.
(46:19):
I wasn't expecting that tohappen and I definitely showed
up differently in sessions withclients because it was okay.
Is that going to happen again?
Is that guy going to come back?
If you have experienced abuse orany of that kind of interaction
with someone where you didn'tfeel safe, or if that continued
(46:40):
on and no one validated that, ohmy gosh, you know that's going
to be navigating so much and sothis sounds really kind of, you
know, trite.
But Grey's Anatomy I can'tbelieve I'm bringing this up
brings up.
They do a lot of when theybring up, like when they bring
(47:02):
in like trauma therapists andthings.
When they have these insanethings happen.
It's really kind of fun howthey navigate it, or I always
love listening to theconversation because it's
allowing the person to explainwhat's happened to them and how
they react to it in a reallysafe way and we don't like I
mean, I'm not Ellen Pompeo, Idon't get that.
(47:24):
You know direct experience.
And so or you're in a societywhere they don't validate it
right.
They're like, oh just, you'refine, move on, pull up your
bootstraps, get over it.
You know there's be tougherhustle forward, move forward,
just kind of all of that type oflanguage and it's like well,
(47:44):
wait a minute let's just sitdown and like what happened to
you and I see that that happenedto you and I'm here with you.
One of my favorite movies haveyou seen Little Miss Sunshine?
No, I haven't, oh, okay, well,that's your homework, I won't
(48:04):
spoil it.
But there is a part of themovie where this character
really has some horrible newsand everyone's trying to make
him feel better and give him apep talk.
But what actually creates himto move forward is this little
girl.
I don't know how old she is,maybe eight or nine.
She just sits next to him andshe says nothing.
(48:24):
But she sits next to him andshe just puts her arm around him
and she goes.
You know she's nods and you cantell she like doesn't even know
what to say, but it's just likesilence.
It's just someone sitting withyou and then he says, okay, I'll
get up now, Like it was that hedidn't need anything, but just
someone to witness what he wasgoing through.
And I think when you'renavigating chronic illness, you
(48:47):
need someone to just say like,yeah, this, this really sucks
and I don't have a fix it, Idon't have anything, this just
really really sucks and I'll sithere with you till you're ready
.
Speaker 2 (48:59):
Which is awesome because you know, speaking from
experience, when you're goingthrough the worst of it with
chronic illness, you are focusedon the physical aspect of being
sick, obviously, and it's.
It may even feel like I don'thave the energy to do any
emotional introspection or workright now, but you probably
don't.
It sounds like you got to digdeep and find, find a little
(49:22):
energy to do that.
I mean.
Well, I think anatomy hastaught us anything, as you said.
Speaker 1 (49:29):
It was about to come out of my mouth, I was like am I
really going to say this?
I think it's when you're insurvival mode.
The body doesn't know thedifference between physical
exhaustion, emotional exhaustion.
It's just exhaustion.
So you might not have capacity.
When I was working at a higherlevel of care, when you had
(49:50):
people who were so as mostlyanorexia and bulimia, they were
medically not safe and they wereno energy.
They couldn't do any processing.
The brain didn't have anyenergy to do it.
So you had to wait until theywere a little bit more medically
stable and then you started torealize, okay, they have some
(50:11):
space to process now.
So I wouldn't say in thehospital is a time to be like,
okay, let's dig deep, yeah,Right, but eventually and it
doesn't have to be this bigemotional process it can be
simple and it can be light andeasy and gentle, but someone to
(50:32):
validate your experience is abig deal for sure.
Speaker 2 (50:36):
Well, you're amazing.
This has been fantastic, and Ican say with certainty that you
have provided a lot of reallygood takeaways for people today.
So I want to thank you for whatyou do and thank you for being
here.
Are you accepting new clientsat this time?
Speaker 1 (50:54):
Yeah, so well.
First, thank you so much forgiving me the space.
I think these are always.
It's really fun and I reallyenjoy talking with you and yes,
short answer accepting newclients, and it's really easy to
get in contact with me.
I'm pretty available on mywebsite and then you can
schedule a time with me yourselfor give me a ring.
(51:16):
My phone number is there.
Email.
I have a free like a debriefwhere you kind of take an
assessment that looks at yourpatterns of thinking, and then I
get a notification that you didand we talk about it for free,
so it's not anything you have topay upfront and then we just
navigate.
If I am best fit to serve you,then there would be an
investment, but not initially.
Speaker 2 (51:37):
Awesome and give us your website again.
Speaker 1 (51:39):
So wwwdoctordr and then patriciafordwellnesscom.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (51:46):
Okay, and we'll put it.
It'll be in the show notes aswell, so people can just find a
link there.
Yeah Well, will you come back,because I already I've just I've
taken so much of your time andthere's so much more that I want
to talk to you about, so we'llget back to you again, okay.
Speaker 1 (51:59):
So this is the cool part is you really have so much
like which way do we want to gotoday?
Okay, let's turn left.
Okay, let's turn left.
So, yeah, I would love to.
I'd be honored, awesome.
Speaker 2 (52:08):
Thank you so much, and we'll do it again soon.
Speaker 1 (52:11):
Yeah, thank you.
Speaker 2 (52:14):
Okay, friends, I hope you enjoyed this conversation
with Dr Ford as much as Ienjoyed having it with her.
I love the freedom that apodcast provides, where you
don't have to stay on script.
You can go off script and touchon a variety of topics, which
we definitely did that in thisepisode.
So thank you for joining.
If you received value from thispodcast today, I would
(52:35):
appreciate it so much if youwould subscribe to the show and
also download the episode andshare it with anyone who you
think may find value in it aswell.
Much appreciated, and pleasereach out to Dr Ford If you're
interested in learning moreabout her services.
We'll include her website infoin the show notes.
Thanks again for listening andthanks again to Dr Ford for
(52:57):
joining us today as we heal andstay healed together.
Welcome to the Heal and Stay Healed podcast, where
we talk about healing and, moreimportantly, staying healed from
chronic disease and otherailments and issues.
We'll cover all the crazythings about health and life the
good, the bad, the ugly and thehilarious.
My name is Kelly and I am asurvivor and overcomer of severe
(00:31):
autoimmune disease, and I can'twait to share with you what
I've learned so that you canheal and stay healed too.
Thanks for listening and enjoythe show.
Hi friends, thank you forjoining me for this episode of
(00:54):
the Heal and Stay Healed withKelly B Haney podcast.
I am so excited for our guesttoday.
She is Dr Patty Ford, and DrFord comes to us as an expert on
a wide variety of topics.
She is a doctor of publichealth and preventive care, a
certified eating disorderregistered dietitian and a habit
(01:15):
finder coach.
Dr Ford completed her BS inkinesiology at University of
Maryland College Park.
She earned her Master's ofPublic Health and Registered
Dietitian License at Loma LindaUniversity, and she obtained her
doctoral degree in preventivecare in 2012.
Presently, she has her ownprivate coaching practice,
imagine Wellness, where shedisrupts patterns of thinking,
(01:39):
propelling her clients forwardto reach the life of their
dreams.
In our conversation today, wetackle the huge topic of food
addiction, particularlyaddiction to highly processed
foods, and how they can conflictwith truly moving into a
healing and health promotinglifestyle.
Besides the fact that thesefoods are designed to be
(02:00):
addictive, with their crunch andpoof sensations a term that we
will expand on we talk a wholelot about the mind-body
connection and the essentialrole that emotional healing
plays when it comes to ourrelationship with food, the
major role that things likegrief work and uncovering
childhood food experiences playin healing and, very
(02:22):
interestingly, dr Ford shareswith us the commonalities that
she sees the most in people withchronic illness.
We also touch on the importanceof listening to your body and
positioning yourself to hearwhat it has to say.
Dr Ford shares a lot with ustoday, and I'm certain that
you'll find a lot of interestingnuggets and takeaways that you
(02:43):
may find yourself thinking aboutwell after the episode ends.
So let's get going.
Here we are with Dr Petty Ford.
Welcome, dr Ford.
Thank you.
I'm happy to be here.
So I already introduced you tothe audience and I shared a
little bit about your bio, butlet's start off.
Can you just explain what is itthat you do in your day to day,
(03:07):
and why do you do what you do?
Speaker 1 (03:11):
So my elevator speech or short answer is I improve
and untangle people'srelationships with their food,
body weight and eating, and dayto day, I talk with people all
day long.
So I'm in conversation, whetherit be with clients who have
(03:34):
retained my services, versusnavigating new relationships,
cultivating those relationships.
So a lot of conversation, thenowning your own business behind
the scenes, doing admin work.
So it depends upon the day, buttoday was admin work and
conversation.
In the morning I have you and Ihave a client later this
(03:56):
evening.
Speaker 2 (03:57):
Nice.
And why is it that you do whatyou do?
What inspires you to do it?
Speaker 1 (04:02):
I think I feel I have been coaching and counseling
the word.
I have loved being in people'sspaces since I was really little
and I didn't really know that'swhat I loved doing until maybe
about three years ago.
I was like, oh, this is calledcoaching.
This is like a thing People canactually make a living out of
this.
I can make a business out ofthis.
(04:22):
So I love learning aboutpeople's stories and then using
my skills, how I can impacttheir story or influence their
story to better their health.
Ultimately, Awesome.
Speaker 2 (04:33):
What's your favorite part about working with your
clients?
Speaker 1 (04:38):
Such a good question.
This question always makes mefeel funny about answering it
because it sounds like I lovelistening to people's pain.
And I love listening topeople's pain, I love listening
to what makes them unique.
I think everyone has a story,everyone has what's happened to
(05:02):
them, and I think that's myfavorite part, because it makes
everyone so unique.
And that's where the story is.
I know there's a culture ohgosh, they have pottery and they
actually break the pottery andthen they fill the pottery, they
put it back together and thenthey fill the breaks with gold
(05:24):
and they say that is actuallyworth more than the original
pottery.
So they literally had to breaksomething and put it back
together and then it's worthmore.
And I just kind of love thatanalogy.
I love the.
Okay, let's tell me what youreally think.
Like that's a really niceanswer, but I really want to
know what you're actuallythinking.
Speaker 2 (05:42):
Now, that's beautiful and it sounds twisted to say I
like hearing people's pain, butI get it.
You like hearing it because youknow that that is a huge step
for them to tell you what theirpain is, because then you can
assist them in healing that pain.
So that's amazing.
Speaker 1 (05:59):
Yeah, and I think also having someone to witness
you without judgment.
I mean, if you can think aboutthe people in your life who can
you actually be yourself withwithout feeling judged or
evaluated, or they're not tryingto fix you Like I can think of
maybe one person for sure, andthen the rest would be like
maybe this person, maybe thatperson, so sometimes you don't
(06:22):
have that in their life and I'mable to step in and be that
person that they can feel reallysafe with.
Speaker 2 (06:27):
Well, I can already say thank you for doing what you
do, and I'm sure that's onbehalf of all of your clients.
But before we get down to moreserious business, let me ask you
a few more lightheartedquestions so we can get to know
the Dr Ford a little bit better.
What is your favorite superfood?
That's always my favoritequestion.
Speaker 1 (06:48):
Yeah, and so I'm going to throw a wrench into it,
where I love all food which issuch.
It's not a caveat, it's notlike let me get out of this
question.
I do truly believe that allfood can provide value in some
way, whether that be nutritive,physical, also emotional and
(07:09):
spiritual and social.
Food has so many components toit.
In terms of foods that havenutrients, this is a hard one, I
would probably.
I love the diversity of quinoa.
I think you can use quinoa inso many different capacities.
I personally have a lot ofindigestion with quinoa, but I
(07:30):
love how it can be so diversefrom breakfast to lunch to
dinner.
But I love when you're talkingwith people and they get to
explore it.
It's a really fun food.
Speaker 2 (07:43):
Yeah, it's a fun thing to introduce people to it
and they're like quinoa.
What is this?
That's what my husband calls it.
Speaker 1 (07:52):
He goes do not serve me that quinoa.
Speaker 2 (07:56):
Yes, dear.
Okay, is there a favorite quote, short poem or music lyric that
has positively influenced youthat you'd be willing to share
with us?
Speaker 1 (08:08):
So my initial response went to I love Albert
Einstein and he says yourimagination is your preview of
life's coming attraction.
And I think Albert Einstein wassuch a stud, Like he was such a
scientist but also had a lot ofsoul, where, I mean, he's
talking about something that youcan't really prove, like you
(08:29):
can't really prove someone'simagination, and humans are the
only ones that have, likespecies that have, the gift of
imagination.
Animals don't.
They're very present, but wecan actually like close our eyes
and like go somewhere else, andwe can do that to our dismay.
But we also can do it in a verycreative way where you can like
dream of something and make ithappen.
(08:51):
But I think a lot of timespeople get stuck, where you
dream of something and then youget stuck or you don't know how,
which I know is a big theme ofwhat we're going to talk about
today.
But yeah, so I like that quote.
Speaker 2 (09:02):
Nice, I like that too .
That's really good.
Do you have another healthpromoting book, documentary,
influencer or another podcast torecommend to us?
Speaker 1 (09:13):
I'm going to be selfish and promote my book,
which isn't even ready yet, butit's going to be coming out,
hopefully in 2024.
I'm co-authoring it withanother physician who spent his
career in addiction and rehab,and so it's called you and food
and it's a different take.
It's not going to be a what toeat, it's more of how to eat.
(09:34):
So I'm going to promote that.
And then I just discovered apodcast called maintenance phase
.
It's definitely a little can becrass, a little rough around
the edges, but it's two peopletalking about kind of culture
within the diet industry.
So I just discovered it and Ireally did, like my first
(09:54):
experience.
I've listened to one podcast.
So take that with a grain ofsalt.
Speaker 2 (09:59):
Awesome.
I love those recommendations.
I love checking out newpodcasts, but I also love that
you mentioned your book, becausewe're going to keep a close eye
on that, because it soundsawesome to me and you're going
to have to keep us posted onwhen that becomes fully
available.
Speaker 1 (10:15):
I think the whole world's going to know, don't
worry, but yes.
Speaker 2 (10:20):
Okay, dr Ford.
Well, let's get down to someserious business here.
We have a lot of good things totalk about today, and I think
you and I have a lot in commonin what we do in our belief
system.
As you know, I'm all abouthelping folks heal and stay
healed naturally, especiallythose who have chronic illness
or disease, and a big part ofthat is encouraging a healing
(10:45):
diet that focuses on eating real, whole, nourishing foods and,
by doing so, shunning non-realfoods that are not conducive to
healing, like highly processedor ultra-processed foods, foods
with added refined sugar,chemicals and preservatives, etc
.
But what I've heard many timesis that a big thing, or the
(11:08):
thing that gets in the way ofpeople who are trying to change
their diet into a healing diet,is addiction, food addictions,
sugar and highly processed foodaddictions, to be specific and
that really derails them overand over.
So in thinking about thisproblem that I keep coming
across with people, I'mrealizing more and more that
(11:31):
many of these foods areliterally designed to be
addictive, so it's no wonderthat people have a hard time not
eating them and giving them up.
I'm really curious to know whatare your thoughts on all of
this and what are yourrecommendations for people who
are in this situation, who areready and willing to do whatever
(11:52):
it takes to truly heal fromtheir chronic disease or illness
, but are just struggling withthese addictions?
Speaker 1 (12:00):
Oh yeah, so this is, I mean, what a loaded question,
or like where to start.
So I think if you kind of lookat the topic, you have different
layers.
You have the food itself, thephysical properties of the food
and you had mentioned.
You know they're designed toincrease palatability
(12:22):
consumption.
You know the purchasing of them.
I mean, there's so much thatgoes into food marketing and
food politics so you couldreally live in that land or that
conversation for a really,really long time.
Marion Nestle is a fabulousauthor and she wrote a book a
while ago called Food Politics.
(12:43):
I'm guaranteed she has severalmore out there which really
opened my eyes in the businessof food and I never thought, I
mean, this was what year are wein?
This was 20 years ago where westill were in like a food
pyramid and not a plate, youknow.
So it's just so many differentthings in politics.
And then the nature of food,how it's designed, where you
(13:08):
know the Cheeto or things thathave like a back crunch and then
the poof where they kind ofdisappear.
Yeah, that's designed in such away where it's so pleasurable
and we continue to consume.
So it's a brilliant marketingscheme.
I mean, if you look at it.
Their goal is to make a profit.
They're doing a really, reallygood job.
Their goal is not necessarilyhealth.
(13:29):
So you kind of have to look atit's not necessarily like the
food isn't doing anything wrong,per say, it's making money, and
that's the whole point of whyit exists.
So I don't think we want tolive in that land.
I mean, you can talk about thedifferent qualities of food, but
(13:49):
one of my favorite is OK,humans.
They're the ones that have thebrains and they're the ones that
get to decide what to buy andhow to eat it.
And there's so many layers ofwhy and how people choose food.
So one is habit.
They've just done it for solong and they don't even think
(14:09):
about it.
Like, if you think about, youknow habits that I have in my
life.
One of the first things I do inthe morning is I really like to
brush my teeth.
If I don't brush my teeth, Ican tell and, but I don't think
about it.
I don't think, OK, in fiveminutes I'm going to brush my
teeth, I'm going to take thistoothbrush, I'm going to.
You know, I just I've beendoing it for so long.
(14:29):
It's a habit and so sometimesthat's food.
For some people, they haveeaten certain foods, certain
types of coffee, certain typesof creamer for so long they
don't think about it, they don'thave to measure it, it's just
autopilot.
So a lot of times you're upagainst habits, and habits are
very hard to break unlessthere's enough motivation and
(14:53):
that can be a topic in itself orthere's enough pain, or there's
enough inspiration, you knowkind of whatever.
When someone is ready to change,they're aware and they're they
are ready to change, Thenthere's OK, how am I going to do
that?
So who buys the food in thehouse?
Who prepares the food?
Do they have access to the food?
(15:16):
And then, when they're eatingthe food, how is their eating
environment?
Who is their support system?
What is their digestion like?
What is actually happening inthe body after they eat it?
And then, is all of thissustainable for long term?
We didn't even talk aboutfinances, we didn't even talk
(15:39):
about spirituality.
So there's so many differentfactors on what you eat and how
you eat it, and can you do itfor healing purposes.
It's so hard to say okay, well,why am I addicted to food?
What's the answer?
It's like oh gosh, it's sodifferent for everybody, right?
But I do think there are twodifferent directions.
(16:00):
We could go as we could talkabout the food or we could talk
about the person's experiencewith said food.
So that's a really long answerfor to start with.
Speaker 2 (16:12):
So you're telling us there's no simple and
straightforward Right?
No, that's what I'm gettingfrom that.
Yeah, okay.
Speaker 1 (16:21):
Yeah, I don't think there is a.
Okay, let me give you the moneyanswer, or else you know I
would be sitting on a jackpotfull of money because I had the
answer to food right.
Then there's pharmaceuticals,like what medications are you on
that's gonna affect the foodsthat you're having, are you
(16:41):
taking you know?
So there's oh gosh, I couldenter like five more factors in
here that would affect yourrelationship with food.
Speaker 2 (16:49):
So if we just searing in I love what you phrased as
the crunch and poof yeah, thecheeto like crunch and poof.
Yes, that's exactly what thatis, Because it's not, you know.
I mean you hear sugar addictionall the time, but it's also
salt and crunch addiction andjust like that thing that
processed food, highly processedfoods, give us that you don't
(17:12):
necessarily get in a banana or acarrot.
You know carrots crunch alittle bit but it's not the same
.
So if we're searing in on justthat, in terms of being addicted
to that crunch and poof or thatsweet flavor, I mean, what is a
good first step?
And this is assuming, let's justassume, for the sake of
(17:34):
argument, that we're talkingabout a person who has a support
system, who has financial means, has the desire.
They have their why, which issomething that I talk about a
lot so they have.
They're motivated either bypain, like you said, or by just
a strong desire to heal or toget off medications, or ideally,
(17:56):
both.
For that person who's juststruggling with the plain and
simple, I can't stop eatingthese foods because I'm craving
them.
Very generally, what is going,what is potentially going on
with that person and what canhelp them?
Speaker 1 (18:11):
So addiction is fascinating and I've learned a
lot with my co-author.
There's definitely a process inthe brain and this was his idea
.
It's in our book but it'scalled drives and decides.
There's the drive to eat.
There's this we actually havethe need to eat.
We are driven to eat by hunger,by different hormones there is,
(18:37):
you know, there's so manythings that go into I'm hungry,
I'm deciding to eat.
Now the decides is okay, whatam I gonna eat and how much?
And then you actually have toengage in the behavior.
It's very dualistic.
You either eat it or you don't,and so what goes into that
(18:57):
actual decides?
The food addiction part of mewould I got when you were.
I was like picturing this personin my head.
I was like I would wanna knowwhat is the experience like for
them as they're eating it.
What are they tasting?
What memories pop up?
What are they feeling?
If you look at the sense oftaste, we have five senses we
(19:19):
see, we hear, we touch, we smell, we taste.
It's such a powerful sense andeven when we went through the
pandemic it was fascinating.
When people lost their tastebuds, they lost their sense of
taste, they lost their smell,they didn't wanna eat anymore.
It was like the desire, thedrive to eat was gone, and it
was.
They lost the sense and I gotreally curious about it.
(19:44):
In all the research, if youlook at, the number one reason
people eat is for taste, and soit's this sense that sometimes
we lose our connection to.
So when I was thinking of allthe factors they're controlled
for okay, why would someone feellike they're addicted to food?
I would really wanna understandwhat's happening in your
(20:05):
experience when you have thecrunch and poof.
What is that like for you?
And there's always a connectionto in my experience, to a
childhood experience, or thissense of like bliss that they're
trying to avoid this pain.
There is something happeningand the brain does two things it
avoids pain or wants pleasure,and so it's just creating
(20:29):
awareness that this crunch andpoof is a pleasurable experience
.
Are they willing to delay thatpleasurable experience?
And you have to have apleasurable experience, similar.
You can't just take away thepleasure that is gonna be.
I mean, you can do it for alittle while, but then
eventually you're gonna say,okay, I just gotta have the
(20:51):
crunch and poof.
What else can you do that issimilar to this pleasure?
Can we teach you how to do it.
Can you withstand a little bitof this?
It's gonna feel painful to nothave it like this comforting.
Can we do something else?
My time with when I worked witha bariatric surgeon, there was a
(21:12):
lot of actually grief work withI'm grieving that I'm not gonna
be able to have this food aftersurgery and it was actually
really fascinating.
We had actually with one clientI'm giggling because it sounds
like funny in nature and wegrieved their relationship to
cake, we grieved theirrelationship to Cheetos,
(21:36):
whatever, where it was like I'msaying goodbye to this and I'm
letting it go.
And it was actually goingthrough the grief process
because they knew they loved itbut they wanted to let it go to
continue on their health journey.
When I'm working with chronicillness clients who are
suffering from chronic illness,there's sometimes this grief of
what has been.
Grief of I wanna be able toenjoy the foods that I used to.
(21:59):
Grief of.
I don't wanna accept that.
This is my reality right now.
So I'm just gonna keep goingand keep being in pain.
And so it's a lot of navigatinghow they're feeling about it,
which stems from thoughts, whichstems from belief, which is
where I like to live.
Speaker 2 (22:18):
So, even if you have a why sometimes well, not
sometimes you still needwillpower.
Willpower is still going to beinvolved.
You can have a why.
You can have every reason inthe world for why you need to
change the way you eat.
It may be literally to saveyour life, but that still
involves willpower, and what I'mhearing you say is for people
(22:39):
who are truly addicted to thefoods that they want to let go
of.
There's actually a griefprocess involved.
Speaker 1 (22:47):
Instead of willpower.
Like holding onto something sotightly because eventually you
get tired, think of it as moreof a surrender.
And I lost my father a year agoand this just naturally,
organically, came up.
Like if you're holding ontosomething for so long, it's
really hard to let go.
And so it's this surrender oflike, okay, I'm willing to let
(23:12):
it go, and that makes me sad andthat makes me, oh, I have to
feel that I'm so, not my father,but if you're going through
like chronic illness, I'm reallysad that I have this and that's
okay.
Like both can happen.
Like in therapy sometimesthey'll say like two truths can
happen at the same time.
Like I can be sad that this ismy reality and this is my
(23:38):
reality.
What can I do to move forward?
So it's like both and.
But sometimes people aren'twilling to let go of that food.
It means too much, it's toovaluable.
They think if they let go theycan't move on.
And so it's just findingperspective in that, where the
food will always be there butyou don't have to interact with
it if you don't want to.
Speaker 2 (24:00):
So I guess the term comfort food what I'm going to
say is it's real, oh yeah,that's more than just a term.
Like it really, like people,legitimately, you said, if you
connect it to childhood memoriesand when you say that is it
like, oh, my grandmother used tomake this, or my mom would make
it every Christmas, what doesit mean?
Speaker 1 (24:19):
Right, it's different for everybody.
I've heard stories where, youknow, I had one client who hated
a certain dish.
She hated it.
It was so disgusting.
So it was just kind of like,okay, well, what does that feel
like to you?
What does that taste like?
And actually what it was was anexperience, a reminder of an
experience, where she was forcedto sit at the table to eat this
(24:40):
dish.
I can't exactly remember whatthe dish was, but she would sit
there for hours.
She was a kid and she was madeto sit at this table for like
six to eight hours and shecouldn't leave the table until
she finished this food.
But I mean, this girl isstrong-willed.
She put her heels in the ground, she sat there for eight hours
and people were living theirlife and going on ignoring her
(25:02):
and you know, as a mom, youthink what that war child up and
that is a form of abuse, that'sa form of neglect, and so she
learned to hate this food.
Now, that's not comforting,that's more.
You know, distaste Sounds likediscomfort.
Her story, right, Her story inher mind was well, I don't like
any food because of thishorrible experience she had.
(25:24):
So comfort, it could be relatedto anything.
It could be related to.
You know, this is what my dadloved and I loved my dad.
This is what, you know, mybrother and I had when our
parents got into a big fight andthat made me feel good.
So sometimes we're not awarethat that's what that is until
(25:45):
you have the space to explorethat a little bit.
And a lot of times it's justasking someone well, what does
that taste like to you?
What does that feel like to you?
It's the experience of theCheeto.
What is it about the Cheeto toyou that is so enjoyable and
it's different for everybody,which is the fun part for me.
Speaker 2 (26:06):
Yeah, I bet it's like an interesting investigation
every time.
Speaker 1 (26:10):
It is as a dietitian.
People always just want to betold what to do.
I don't know how many timespeople have said oh, I don't
really care, just tell me whatto do.
The problem is is you haven'tdone any of the underlying work,
so you'll do the what for alittle while, but then you're
going to go back to what youactually want to do, not what
(26:31):
the other person is telling youto do so if you really want to
make this a lifestyle change,you do have to look at what are
your beliefs, what are youthinking about it, how are you
feeling about it?
That will help the change to bea true change and not just like
a six week thing.
Speaker 2 (26:53):
It seems to all just come back to that.
What is your why?
What is that driving forcebehind why you want to do this
and why you are doing this?
Because these are going to beharder than others.
Speaker 1 (27:05):
Some meals are going to be harder than others, so
yeah, and so if you think about,like, when people have a life
scare, they like a heart attackor something that you know like
a near death experience.
That is so motivating becauseit's painful, it's scary, and so
that kick starts it.
And then you start to see, ifpeople don't actually look at
(27:26):
their, the why would be okay.
What do I believe about it?
What, how do I think about it?
What are my emotions about it?
Sounds like if you're able tonavigate that, then that scare
was the ignition to change.
Yeah, and I've seen peoplewho've come in here and said,
well, my doctor says I have tobe in here because I just had a
(27:46):
heart attack.
The why is they're here isbecause someone else is telling
them what to do.
They actually don't want to doit.
Yeah, yeah, a lot of timeswe're in session and I'll be
like do you actually want to behere?
And there's no judgment.
They'll think, no, I don't wantto do this.
And I'm like okay, awesome,like, how does that feel to say
and just to own that you don'thave any intrinsic desire to do?
(28:10):
this on your own, and I thinkyou're right.
It's like, okay, well thendon't do it.
Yeah, yeah, they want to do it,yeah.
Speaker 2 (28:19):
It sounds funny to say this, but I feel fortunate
now that my situation was direenough that I had my instant why
I wanted to survive and Ididn't want to get horribly sick
again and I was out of myhorrible flair that I was in for
a year.
I was in remission but I wasfaced with it was time to.
(28:40):
I needed to come off theimmunosuppressant drugs.
So that threat of, as soon as Icame off those drugs, getting
sick again was right there andthere was my why it was.
It was naturally presented tome as as a gift.
Yeah, because that beginning ofthe healing journey is is hard
(29:02):
and having a really solid why Ithink is absolutely essential if
you're going to be reallysuccessful.
Speaker 1 (29:10):
Well, and it's almost .
It sounds like you have so muchlike for lack of a better word,
I'm just going to say traumafrom that, like near death
experience.
You're like I'm not even goingto entertain not doing this, I'm
not even going to entertain notliving this way, right, it
wasn't going to think about it,yeah.
You feel like I don't even havethe choice, right when with
(29:34):
people are still navigating thatcrunch and poof, the choice is
still there.
It's like, well, I've gottenaway with it before, so I can
still do it.
And I like to call those typesof thinkers like diet rebels,
like they like to kind of playwith fire a little bit.
And so it's, it's a skill, it'sa, it's a superpower almost,
(29:54):
because they're willing to thinkoutside the box, they're
willing to be very creative, andso it's really trying to say,
okay, well, if you, you know,you don't like rules that don't
make sense, let's come up withyour own rules, you know, let's
come up with your own diet.
And they think, oh, okay, allright, well, I'll do it, I'll do
it.
Then they just don't want to betold what to do necessarily.
Speaker 2 (30:17):
Yeah, it's a lot harder when you don't have a
serious situation, but thatdoesn't mean you can't come up
with a really solid why that'sgonna motivate you and drive you
, even if it's not Life or deathliterally.
So it's.
It certainly can be done.
It's just a little bit of aharder path.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (30:34):
Well, even in entrepreneurship, they'll say no
.
You're why?
Because when, like, business ishard, you know, are you still
gonna show up to work orwhatever?
And I like thinking about likeyou know business or you know
diet can be the goal.
And then the dream is time withyour family.
I mean, like I don't think yourdream is to have the perfect
(30:55):
diet dream is to survive andhave time with your family, but
not survive, but thrive, right,you don't want to feel like crap
spending time with your family.
The diet is a goal, it's justthe vehicle to get you there.
And so sometimes I think, whenpeople put Dieting and health on
this pedestal as the dream,like I'm really thinking when
(31:16):
you're on your deathbed you'renot gonna be.
Like I'm so glad I ate quinoa,but the quinoa got you to 96
years old where you did have afull right.
Speaker 2 (31:30):
I'm glad we circled back around to quinoa.
Yeah, that was good, okay.
So Taking a step back andthinking about everything we've
talked about so far, it's justfurther evidence of the mind,
body, spirit connection.
It's just all connected.
We can't truly heal and stayhealed from chronic illness or
(31:53):
disease Without looking at theentire picture, even when it
comes to just stopping eatingCrunching poof, right.
Speaker 1 (32:02):
I have a client.
She has horrible IBS and shehas done everything by the book
and flares just keep happeningand keep happening.
And so she, we're workingtogether to just really explore
what's going on underneath her,her psyche, kind of what is she
believing about?
The food Comes, come, come ofit.
(32:23):
She was navigating a lot ofgrief with some loss, with some
infertility, and so she neededspace to release that.
She's at a space now where she'sstarting to realize, oh, dairy,
I thought maybe okay, maybethat was just me being really
restrictive, let me try it.
She's like oh no, dairy isdefinitely causing flares, like
(32:44):
so she's in this kind ofexploring phase, but it's coming
from a really intuitive place.
Versus, I've got to throw awayall my donuts, I've got to throw
all, all like away all theCheetos.
It's let me try it and let meactually figure out what is
working for me now and a lot oftimes what works today is going
(33:05):
to be different tomorrow, whenyou're in that exploring phase.
So it's really almost like AA.
You just take one day at a time, like the Serenity prayer, and
I, you know, just surrender tothis is what's my journey right
now, and take it one day at atime.
Speaker 2 (33:22):
Yeah, I think for me a lot of the times.
My goal is just to you, getpeople to start paying closer
attention and just being moremindful, because I think a big
part of the problem is we don'ttake the time to just Sit and
think about what we're eating.
And then how do we feel an hourlater or the next day?
(33:45):
And I think, our body I Believethat our body is constantly
trying to communicate with us,which is not Always open and
ready to hear what it has to say.
Speaker 1 (33:58):
Yeah, I love that.
So think like listening,listening, like if I'm listening
to you I can't do anything else.
I can't multitask.
I mean you can, but it meansthat I'm not really listening to
you, nor my present with ifsomeone was in this room and so
listening to your body, youcan't multitask, you can't do
(34:22):
both.
The brain isn't set up that way.
So in order to pay attention, isyou do have to be quiet and you
do have to have someintrospection and you do have to
sometimes ask yourself the hardquestions, which is so hard,
and our culture, where everybodyhas an opinion about nutrition
(34:43):
and Health and even, like youand I have navigated this for so
long, but everybody else has,like there's just so much
information and so I obviouslydon't know everything, you don't
know everything, but we havesomething to offer and do we
have something to offer for you?
If you're listening, where youknow, what can you take and then
(35:07):
apply that to your journey.
Whenever I've worked withhealth professionals and they
think they know everything andthey think they have the answer
for everybody, I'm always verycautious, because that's it's,
that's very arrogant and it'svery like wait a minute, how,
how, how can you possibly thinkthat one way of eating or one
(35:30):
Product or one potion works foreverybody, like that's.
That's crazy, yeah, and it'snot logical.
So I would be very cautiouswith those types of marketing.
Speaker 2 (35:43):
Yeah, bio individuality is.
Yeah, it's a big word with abig meaning and it's for me
personally.
There are some things that Ibelieve are gonna be beneficial
for everybody.
When it comes to the generalstuff, yes, but once you dig a
little deeper, yeah, everybody'sbody is different.
Everybody's gut flora isdifferent.
(36:04):
Everybody's past and emotionalissues and trauma, yeah,
different.
Everybody's spiritualexperience is different, and
it's just.
I 100% agree with you.
There is no, unfortunately,there is no one-size-fits-all
approach to this, which is why Ithink it's so important to be
(36:25):
listening to a lot of differentthoughts and opinions and, like
you said, taking away thosenuggets that Really sink in,
because the ones that hit youthe hardest are probably the
ones that you need to bethinking about the most.
Right, I know it works.
Speaker 1 (36:40):
Yeah, I was.
So I have my own kind of mentorand coach and he was telling me
something and I was like, oh, Idon't like that and it's like
dang it.
That means I probably be payingattention.
Yeah, and I think also therewas another position I loved
following.
I can't remember.
I have to his name will come upthat he is a specialist in
(37:04):
obesity management and he willsay Take a good look at the
culture that you're in.
And we literally can't like ifsomeone said, oh, change your
culture, I can't, I can't dothat overnight.
That's like changing where Ilive, who I hang out with, like
that's a.
I mean you could, I could getup and leave, but I'm not going
(37:24):
to because I anyway.
Your culture has a huge effecton the choices that you eat.
If everyone around you iseating fast food, it's so hard
not to eat it because everyonearound you is doing it, and so
if you're really really wantingto change, for healing, it's
gonna take a conversation or atleast a community for support.
(37:48):
Otherwise you're gonna gettired of being the only fish
swimming against the grain.
It will be just really You'refighting a big battle, going at
it alone and we really can't dothis life alone, so you're gonna
want to find some supportsystem if you're wanting this to
be long-lasting, for sure.
Speaker 2 (38:06):
Yeah.
I mean, I've heard that phraseso many different ways, like
yeah, I'm out with three smokersand you'll be the fourth.
Hang out with three drinkersand you'll be the fourth.
You know it's just.
Yeah, it's really really hardto fight and shout out to my
husband who, from day one, hasbeen just like completely and
totally supportive.
You know, from that first daywhen I said I got to change
(38:29):
everything.
I got to change everything andI'm ready to do it.
Yeah, right on board with me.
What?
What about those folks whoaren't in that situation?
When you, when you say, changeyour, change your culture,
change, change your network,what is that practically Look
like?
Or at least what are somepractical steps that?
Speaker 1 (38:49):
it can be if you're home, like your immediate home,
life is so different than what,what you had to live.
Finding a support group,finding a community, whether
that be a therapist or coach orpractitioner we're so connected
now on Either social media or,you know, the internet finding a
safe community where they dosupport your goals, they do
(39:14):
support what you're trying to doand You're you are not the only
one going through this, I canguarantee.
So.
Finding other people that haveare living, have lived what
you've lived and can point youin a support group or direction.
And that might take, you know,some digging around.
It might take being vulnerableenough to share your story,
(39:35):
being, you know, vulnerableenough to own that.
This is something you arenavigating, because hiding it or
living in shame, that's likeyour ego being being very, very
loud and so which I've done,everybody's done.
So.
Finding a space where you notfeel like I think, the more and
(39:58):
more I've worked, when you havegroup support, the biggest
feedback is I didn't feel alone.
I didn't, I was finally feelinglike I'm not the only one going
through this, and that feelingalone is very motivating.
So if you're immediate familyor the immediate people that
you're with aren't supportive,go find a different room.
(40:21):
Go find and maybe that is not aquick fix, it might take some
time, but that is really reallyhard to change if your immediate
support system is not going tosupport you enough.
Speaker 2 (40:34):
I mean, I'm just dreaming of a perfect world
where, if you're in thatsituation and you still go out
and find your supportivecommunity and then your
immediate family is seeing howmuch healthier and happier you
are, you're going to convertthem over to healthier habits
themselves.
Speaker 1 (40:50):
Yeah, I mean, I think sometimes that happens just by
nature and sometimes it doesn't,where it depends upon, I guess,
the relationship, if it's achild growing up and then they
can move out, if it's spousal.
That's really really, really,really hard and sometimes having
those conversations of I don'tfeel supported.
This is what I need to besupported.
(41:12):
Are you willing to do that,having those conversations?
And sometimes people say no andyou are on your own.
So I commend you if you aredoing that.
It's very hard.
Speaker 2 (41:23):
Yeah definitely the harder path.
Yeah, all right.
So I want to just go back intalking about the mind-body
connection and when we talkedabout the idea of dealing with
food addictions and facing themhead on.
There's a lot of goingbackwards and being more
introspective about people'spast and people's trauma, and
(41:46):
you had mentioned grief.
Are there other emotions thattend to come up when people look
backwards in this way?
Speaker 1 (41:56):
Yeah, I think, of trauma.
So a lot of times when I workwith addiction or hard
relationships with food, theretends to be trauma, whether that
be sexual trauma, neglect,abusive trauma.
You know, just kind of traumacould be anything that the brain
(42:17):
didn't expect.
So it doesn't have to be wecall it like big T, it doesn't
have to be this textbook.
I was burned at the stake, itcould be a car accident, it
could be something where youjust didn't expect that coming.
A lot of times in my practicewith I work a lot with body
image and weight.
(42:37):
There was something happenedearly in their life where their
weight or the shape of theirbody size was how they determine
their worth as a person.
And so in chronic illness I seea lot of emotional suppression.
I see a lot of they weren'tallowed to feel, no one has seen
(42:59):
them before, and that's reallycommon now in today's society,
especially with kids who spend alot of time on screens or their
parents are busy on screens.
The validation of just being aperson is getting harder and
harder and harder.
One of the tools that I like touse in my office and this feels
(43:23):
kind of like tarot cards, butit's not tarot cards A lot of
times we'll spend time and I'llask someone, okay, how does that
food make you feel?
Or how does that something withfood, body weight or eating, how
does that make you feel?
And people will tell me a story, rather than an experience, and
I'll say, okay, great, thankyou for the story.
Tell me how it feels, what'sthe temperature of what you're
(43:46):
feeling, where are you feelingit?
And a lot of times, like peopledon't get it, like it's like,
wait what I'm asking you to?
Just tell me what you'refeeling in your body.
And when people get therethey'll say, oh, my gosh, I was
feeling anxious.
I was feeling anxiety is a bigone with food out of fear, fear
(44:08):
that the food is going to causeharm, especially with gut,
because the gut is changingconstantly, and they're afraid.
If I have this, I'm going to bein pain for the next six days.
And the hardest part about thatis anxiety decreases the
digestive process and it alsodecreases a hunger cue.
(44:30):
So here you are now, exposed tothis food in real time and in
like two seconds, your body andyour brain get this whole
message of fear.
So now I'm not hungry, now mydigestion sucks and I haven't
even eaten anything and it's a,it's a Cheeto, so the Cheeto
isn't going to really helpdigestion anyway.
(44:51):
So you see a lot of fear, angst, kind of nervousness, so you
think, a lot of emotions thatcause distress, a lot of
emotions that will disrupt, kindof the homeostasis.
When you're experiencingpositive emotions, we typically
feel more calm, typically notall the time.
(45:13):
There are some, like histrionic, where positive emotions cause
disruption too, but with chronicillness usually it's emotional
suppression or a lot of fear.
Speaker 2 (45:25):
Yeah, wow, that's really interesting.
I think it's safe to say thatanyone who has a chronic illness
, really it's really importantfor them to really look at their
emotional health and any traumafrom their past.
By the way, for all the readingand studying that I've done on
trauma, I don't think I've everheard it distilled down to the
(45:47):
way you, just to what you justsaid.
Trauma is anything that thebody didn't expect.
Yeah, you said yeah, so thinkwow.
Speaker 1 (45:56):
It could be.
Even I had.
I was in my office and I worksometimes alone.
Someone had come in I didn'texpect and it totally scared me
and I didn't feel safe and I waslike, oh my gosh, that affected
me for like the next four orfive hours now.
Did it disrupt the rest of myday?
It wasn't PTSD trauma, but itdefinitely.
(46:19):
I wasn't expecting that tohappen and I definitely showed
up differently in sessions withclients because it was okay.
Is that going to happen again?
Is that guy going to come back?
If you have experienced abuse orany of that kind of interaction
with someone where you didn'tfeel safe, or if that continued
(46:40):
on and no one validated that, ohmy gosh, you know that's going
to be navigating so much and sothis sounds really kind of, you
know, trite.
But Grey's Anatomy I can'tbelieve I'm bringing this up
brings up.
They do a lot of when theybring up, like when they bring
(47:02):
in like trauma therapists andthings.
When they have these insanethings happen.
It's really kind of fun howthey navigate it, or I always
love listening to theconversation because it's
allowing the person to explainwhat's happened to them and how
they react to it in a reallysafe way and we don't like I
mean, I'm not Ellen Pompeo, Idon't get that.
(47:24):
You know direct experience.
And so or you're in a societywhere they don't validate it
right.
They're like, oh just, you'refine, move on, pull up your
bootstraps, get over it.
You know there's be tougherhustle forward, move forward,
just kind of all of that type oflanguage and it's like well,
(47:44):
wait a minute let's just sitdown and like what happened to
you and I see that that happenedto you and I'm here with you.
One of my favorite movies haveyou seen Little Miss Sunshine?
No, I haven't, oh, okay, well,that's your homework, I won't
(48:04):
spoil it.
But there is a part of themovie where this character
really has some horrible newsand everyone's trying to make
him feel better and give him apep talk.
But what actually creates himto move forward is this little
girl.
I don't know how old she is,maybe eight or nine.
She just sits next to him andshe says nothing.
(48:24):
But she sits next to him andshe just puts her arm around him
and she goes.
You know she's nods and you cantell she like doesn't even know
what to say, but it's just likesilence.
It's just someone sitting withyou and then he says, okay, I'll
get up now, Like it was that hedidn't need anything, but just
someone to witness what he wasgoing through.
And I think when you'renavigating chronic illness, you
(48:47):
need someone to just say like,yeah, this, this really sucks
and I don't have a fix it, Idon't have anything, this just
really really sucks and I'll sithere with you till you're ready
.
Speaker 2 (48:59):
Which is awesome because you know, speaking from
experience, when you're goingthrough the worst of it with
chronic illness, you are focusedon the physical aspect of being
sick, obviously, and it's.
It may even feel like I don'thave the energy to do any
emotional introspection or workright now, but you probably
don't.
It sounds like you got to digdeep and find, find a little
(49:22):
energy to do that.
I mean.
Well, I think anatomy hastaught us anything, as you said.
Speaker 1 (49:29):
It was about to come out of my mouth, I was like am I
really going to say this?
I think it's when you're insurvival mode.
The body doesn't know thedifference between physical
exhaustion, emotional exhaustion.
It's just exhaustion.
So you might not have capacity.
When I was working at a higherlevel of care, when you had
(49:50):
people who were so as mostlyanorexia and bulimia, they were
medically not safe and they wereno energy.
They couldn't do any processing.
The brain didn't have anyenergy to do it.
So you had to wait until theywere a little bit more medically
stable and then you started torealize, okay, they have some
(50:11):
space to process now.
So I wouldn't say in thehospital is a time to be like,
okay, let's dig deep, yeah,Right, but eventually and it
doesn't have to be this bigemotional process it can be
simple and it can be light andeasy and gentle, but someone to
(50:32):
validate your experience is abig deal for sure.
Speaker 2 (50:36):
Well, you're amazing.
This has been fantastic, and Ican say with certainty that you
have provided a lot of reallygood takeaways for people today.
So I want to thank you for whatyou do and thank you for being
here.
Are you accepting new clientsat this time?
Speaker 1 (50:54):
Yeah, so well.
First, thank you so much forgiving me the space.
I think these are always.
It's really fun and I reallyenjoy talking with you and yes,
short answer accepting newclients, and it's really easy to
get in contact with me.
I'm pretty available on mywebsite and then you can
schedule a time with me yourselfor give me a ring.
(51:16):
My phone number is there.
Email.
I have a free like a debriefwhere you kind of take an
assessment that looks at yourpatterns of thinking, and then I
get a notification that you didand we talk about it for free,
so it's not anything you have topay upfront and then we just
navigate.
If I am best fit to serve you,then there would be an
investment, but not initially.
Speaker 2 (51:37):
Awesome and give us your website again.
Speaker 1 (51:39):
So wwwdoctordr and then patriciafordwellnesscom.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (51:46):
Okay, and we'll put it.
It'll be in the show notes aswell, so people can just find a
link there.
Yeah Well, will you come back,because I already I've just I've
taken so much of your time andthere's so much more that I want
to talk to you about, so we'llget back to you again, okay.
Speaker 1 (51:59):
So this is the cool part is you really have so much
like which way do we want to gotoday?
Okay, let's turn left.
Okay, let's turn left.
So, yeah, I would love to.
I'd be honored, awesome.
Speaker 2 (52:08):
Thank you so much, and we'll do it again soon.
Speaker 1 (52:11):
Yeah, thank you.
Speaker 2 (52:14):
Okay, friends, I hope you enjoyed this conversation
with Dr Ford as much as Ienjoyed having it with her.
I love the freedom that apodcast provides, where you
don't have to stay on script.
You can go off script and touchon a variety of topics, which
we definitely did that in thisepisode.
So thank you for joining.
If you received value from thispodcast today, I would
(52:35):
appreciate it so much if youwould subscribe to the show and
also download the episode andshare it with anyone who you
think may find value in it aswell.
Much appreciated, and pleasereach out to Dr Ford If you're
interested in learning moreabout her services.
We'll include her website infoin the show notes.
Thanks again for listening andthanks again to Dr Ford for
(52:57):
joining us today as we heal andstay healed together.
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