What happens when a Special Operations soldier trades the battlefield for a meditation cushion? Rodolfo Young's extraordinary journey from military precision to mindful entrepreneurship offers a masterclass in masculine leadership that defies conventional stereotypes.
In this profound conversation, Rodolfo reveals the delicate balance he's cultivated—maintaining powerful masculine presence while rejecting aggression and intimidation in business leadership. "I can always tell a boy from a man by how they respond to criticism," he shares, offering a transformative perspective on mature masculinity that resonates deeply for entrepreneurs struggling with leadership identity.
Drawing from two seemingly opposite worlds—military discipline and two years in silent meditation—Rodolfo unpacks how building a successful business requires solid internal footing rather than external validation. His candid reflections on confronting PTSD reveal a startling insight: the deepest helplessness comes not from external circumstances but from being forced to act against our values. This recognition becomes a powerful framework for understanding the struggles many men face in business environments.
Through stories of corporate coaching and personal transformation, Rodolfo dismantles the myth of the self-made businessman. "The majority of successful businesses did not do it on their own from the beginning," he reveals, challenging listeners to embrace delegation and continuous learning as strengths rather than weaknesses. His approach to company culture—developing leaders rather than maintaining hierarchies—offers a refreshing alternative to toxic workplace dynamics.
The conversation culminates in a surprising yet profound piece of advice: play. Against intuition, especially when business challenges mount, Rodolfo advocates for stepping back and allowing creativity to flow naturally. "Like a river meeting a rock," he suggests, "don't try to force your way through—just flow around it."
Whether you're launching a startup or leading an established organization, this episode will transform how you view masculine strength in business leadership. Listen now to discover how aligning your values with your vision creates not just business success, but personal fulfillment.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:13):
Hi everyone.
Yvette Rose here and welcome toMen in Business Summit and guys
.
I am so excited to have RodolfoYoung here with me today.
Thank you so much for makingtime and being with us.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
My pleasure.
Speaker 1 (00:25):
So excited.
And, guys, for those of you whodon't know Rodolfo, he's a
former US Army Special Ops andhe's also now deeply practicing
the APE approach to live a moremindfulness life and also to
dive more deep into personaldevelopment.
And he was also two years insilent meditation.
And now, rodolfo, you'reworking with CEOs and
(00:47):
celebrities and also topinfluencers to help them to
improve their quality of lifeand also their strategies, and
you have almost 21 certificatesand you work with thousands of
people as well around the world.
And he's even also a writer atthe Ariana Huffington Drive
Globe and he also has shared thestage get this scared the stage
with Eckhart Tolle, with DeepakChopra, with Tony Robbins, also
(01:10):
with Marianne Williamson, andhe's now the founder of the
brilliant Center here in Ubud inBali, where we are right now.
Whoo right, did I catcheverything?
Speaker 2 (01:22):
got it.
Speaker 1 (01:23):
What an amazing life that you've had.
So, just from that introductionalready, it just already
grabbed me when I heard USmilitary.
And now you have this beautiful, heart-centered business and
it's like, wow, how did thateven happen for you, even
(01:47):
happened for you?
Where?
Where was the the pull for youfrom moving from a place of a
military background to going 360degrees or at least that's what
it feels like, that's what itlooks like for us to moving into
, diving into the heart, divinginto your emotions.
Speaker 2 (02:04):
I think I almost look at it like a seesaw, where you
know if you've got one end ofthe seesaw and you're way up
here and this is like thismilitary assertive, you know,
violent, sometimes very, veryyang, masculine, strong kind of
energy going in and eventuallygravity is going to get you and
you're just going to kind ofslide down to the other side.
(02:26):
So it's balance, I think for themost part, and actually I take
that back.
It doesn't just happennaturally.
When you stop actively doingwhatever it is that you're doing
at one extreme of the seesaw orthe spectrum or the pendulum,
then that stillness allows youto actually slide to the other
side.
And so I think that was what itwas From the military and
(02:47):
everything that was going onthere.
Even when I was there I stillhad some balance and was really
into personal development andthings.
But when I finally got myselfout of that, it was an immediate
stillness and stopping andpausing and from that I just
very naturally moved into thebalance of personal development
and holistics and spiritualityone thing that you said that
(03:10):
that also captured me here justfor a second.
Speaker 1 (03:12):
There was when you talked about the masculinity,
the, the abrasiveness, orperhaps as aggression, as most
of us would interpretmasculinity being, and something
that I find, quite, you know,admirable about you.
So if that's the perfect wordto use in English English is my
second language, bear with mebut if that's the word I can use
(03:33):
here for you, is that I findyou to be such a wonderful
expression of masculinity, avery strong, solid presence, but
not in that you know, boostingtype of pushy or, um, I wouldn't
say manipulative but aggressivetype of of approach.
You have a completely differentapproach, yet you still remain
(03:55):
very masculine, like I wouldn'tactually call you being feminine
, and this is something that alot, and this is something that
a lot of men, I think, struggleto find a balance when they are
in business, when they are beingentrepreneurs.
It's how do I show up, how do Ishow my power, how do I assert
respect, how do I create beingthe leader that I want to be?
(04:19):
Because sometimes, when we thinkabout leaderships, we think of
men who are very you know,sometimes even abusive,
sometimes very controlling,sometimes a little bit too
honest, which can come forwardas feeling very intimidating,
but I've seen you having such adifferent and unique approach,
especially as a business ownernow, and quite successfully, in
(04:41):
what you're doing at the momentand have been doing for quite a
while now.
How did you find that balance?
How did you create that spaceof being masculine but still
being in business and justnailing it down so, so perfectly
?
Speaker 2 (04:56):
I think there's a few different things that come to
my mind of how that happened.
The first one was I took mytime, you know, I think being
able to cultivate a foundationfirst and step on that, and it's
almost like you're building thesteps towards your success,
that you get solid footing ateach way.
When you have solid footing,you don't assert yourself in an
(05:18):
outward way because you don'tneed to.
You become a magnet or anexample of what it is that
you're doing.
I think a lot of times where,especially for the masculine, if
we're trying to prove or ifwe're trying to fulfill that
social role of the provider andprotector, but almost in the way
of keeping up with the Jonesesstyle, rather than actually
(05:40):
having the resources andactually having the stability
physically, emotionally,financially, all these things
then the consistency isn't there, but rather it's just this
gunshot approach of constantlytrying to no, look I did this,
oh, look I did this, or, if Igamble on this, maybe it'll
finally come.
When we do that, there'sactually no stability.
(06:01):
So of course you're going toget men that are huffing and
puffing but the slightest littleyou know flick and they're
gonna fall over because there'sno stability, right.
So for me, the biggest thingwas taking my time and creating
stability and and that means notbeing in any urgency of it, not
trying to run away from where Ifelt there was weakness this is
(06:22):
actually one of the biggest,biggest things I'll say on the
level of masculinity, not justin business but in life.
I can always tell a boy from aman, and the way I can tell is
how they respond to criticism,how they respond to criticism.
So if it's a boy, we'll justsay an immature or even an
unbalanced masculinity or toxicmasculinity.
(06:43):
If they're given criticism andthey get super defensive, then
they're still kind of getting tothat stability that I'm talking
about, if they actually answerwith oh interesting.
Thank you for that feedback.
Let me look at that, let me seeif any of that's true and own
it if it is, and see how I canimprove.
That's a man, that'smasculinity, that's the
(07:05):
stability that says okay, I canbe responsible.
Speaker 1 (07:10):
Wow, and that's powerful.
I'm still digesting what yousaid.
That is so incredibly and itfeels so true as well.
It feels right.
I fully agree with you.
And when you said, when theytake that place of
responsibility, do you feel thatmaybe the reason why a lot of
(07:30):
men you know push, push againstthat responsibility or do become
offensive or do revert to that,that inner child, almost like
that type of response?
Because because there was maybea point in time where there was
too much responsibility, andit's almost like there's now
what I would call like anallergic reaction to
responsibility?
(07:51):
Because and the reason why I'mbringing this up is when we look
at generational patterns of menalways having to be the
provider, being the financialbreadwinner, securing everything
, making sure the children'seducation is done, making sure
the wife has money that sheneeds to buy food for the house,
and it's like there's a lot ofresponsibility that comes with
that alone and not being able toshow your emotions as well.
(08:13):
How?
How do we bring?
Because every business, everybusiness that we start or have
at least things from our past,pours over into this business
every single time, and that'swhy I love the song, because
it's conscious men in business.
So it's all about beingconsciously aware of how wounds
(08:37):
can overflow into your business,and has this something that
maybe has happened with you andmaybe advice that you can give,
or ways to catch these momentswhere there is a moment where we
do need to take responsibility,but it's bringing up old stuff,
and so it's almost like nowyou're fighting with your
emotions and you're having todeal with having to be now an
(09:01):
adult and show up strong in thismoment at the same time and and
I've been in situations likethat and I've seen many men also
in business finding this to bequite a battle that they have to
face with on a regular basisyeah, I think it's funny because
when, when I started doing morecorporate coaching, I always
said it was an odd mix, becauseI come in there and I'll work
(09:24):
with an executive and oftenit'll be a male executive and if
I can get them to heal thewounds that they've succeeded so
well in their life, becausethey were trying to prove
otherwise to that wound, theywere trying to avoid that hurt
or avoid that overwhelm or somuch responsibility, and they
finally realized, oh, realize,oh, wow, I don't need to prove
(09:46):
that I'm worthy to my fatheranymore or I don't need to do
this or that.
Speaker 2 (09:48):
Or then you know, the motivation for their all the
success they have, sometimesshifts.
So it wasn't so good for repeatbusiness, but it's good for
people's lives.
So when I look at that, itshows me what the pattern often
is is that we start to do thingsin life not because of what we
(10:09):
want, but because of what isexpected of us, or what we think
we should be doing, or how weshould be showing up, or because
we're afraid of not being seenin those ways.
And anytime that's the case,again you're on shaky footing.
You don't have a stability,stability there which makes it
very hard actually to.
We'll call it um succeed calmlyright you know the the.
(10:31):
You look at some of the topexecs and or business owners,
entrepreneurs they're a wrecklike.
They're just so anxious all thetime and and on to the next
thing or this that you even seein just in marketing a lot.
You know, if, if you have aproduct and as soon as it's out
you've got to be working on yournext product just to try to
keep the interest of a market,then it's because there's
(10:53):
something going on in you, notbecause of the market.
You haven't taken the time tobelieve.
Oh wait, they would stickaround because of the
relationship I can develop withthem.
But no, they're just here forthe value I might give right now
and again.
Shotgun approach, yes.
So yeah, I think that's thebiggest advice that I can give
is learn to look at your ownpersonal development.
First, look at what's going onand again that distinction
(11:16):
between a boy to a man.
Be okay with the criticism, beokay with the failures, be okay
with the, the not fulfillingexpectations and things like
that.
But then look at why it didn'thappen and and find what's
balanced for you and and it'samazing what happens when we
actually come from a stableplace that's.
Speaker 1 (11:34):
That's so true.
What you said, and what I'malso hearing with this
explanation that you just gave,is is to overcome that fear of
failure.
Yes, huge fear of failure,because even when I was thinking
about what you were doing inthe military here, you were in a
position well at least from myperspective where you follow,
you have to take orders, youhave to take instructions.
(11:55):
It's not like you're left byyour own device to kind of like,
do what you please, as we cando in our business.
How did you make thattransition of being someone that
was in a position of taking,perhaps, instructions and now
you're in the position where youare the one giving instructions
?
Speaker 2 (12:13):
you are now in that place of leadership well, it's
an interesting hierarchy in themilitary and I'm going to
divulge a little bit of whathappens in the internal workings
of the military um you know,you have the enlisted, and then
you have officers and you haveleadership.
That's creating strategy.
And then you have those who areactually implementing the
strategy.
Most of the time, those who arecreating the strategy are not
(12:38):
really in tune with how it wouldbe implemented.
And so quite often and thisdoesn't go for every branch of
the military, um, or every unitor battalion, but at least in
mine, it was often the case thatthere'd be these great, lofty
goals and they'd come say, okay,I want this by this afternoon,
right, and?
And you shake your head, yes,sir, you know, and.
(12:59):
And they'd go.
And then you turn to the yourother, you know, uh, I'm not
colleagues, but the othersoldiers in your unit.
And you'd be like okay, so howare we going to do this?
What do we like?
And so there's actually anamazing amount of independence
and self-reliance.
That happens Because whenyou're given an order by
somebody, they don't give you aninstruction manual with it.
Speaker 1 (13:20):
You have to figure it out.
Speaker 2 (13:21):
Yeah, they just give you.
Here's the result that we want,okay, and we need it by this
time, and so then you actuallydo have to get very creative and
take a bit of a management ofyourself and definitely
responsibility to get it done.
Speaker 1 (13:33):
Right.
Speaker 2 (13:33):
I remember one very, very good example of this, when
I had just finished all mytraining and it was, I think,
like the first week that I wasassigned to the first unit that
I was in.
I think like the first weekthat I was assigned to the first
unit that I was in and thehigher cadres so like upper
majors and actually not ageneral but just below them had
come in and they were going tohave a huge meeting of all the
(13:56):
officers on a mission that wewere going to be doing and it
was in a certain country, andthey came to me like what do you
know about this country?
And I was like nothing.
And they came to me like whatdo you know about this country?
And I was like nothing.
And they dropped like a stackof papers of research about this
big on this one country, andthey said okay, in about two
hours we need a full PowerPointpresentation You're going to be
(14:16):
presenting to the higher cadre,which is like all the officers
on deployment strategies,culture, assessment, risks, this
and that, and left.
And I'm just sitting there goingokay, and I did it and I think
(14:37):
probably one of the biggestthings I actually learned out of
the military was again thisidea of capacity that we have.
When you realize that if youbelieve believe that you can
then you normally find theresources.
And when it comes to business,this is huge that if you simply
go okay, here's the goal andhere's what I want to do it and
I believe it's possible, right,and you don't have to look
around and see examples of otherpeople who have done it now
(15:00):
then you have to come back toyourself and be like do I want
to do it?
And that in in the military, Ididn't have the choice.
Right In business, you have thechoice and so you go.
Do I want to do this?
Because if you don't want to,you won't have the motivation to
actually carry it through.
Yeah, so you do have to bealigned in the tasks and the
projects you take on.
Speaker 1 (15:17):
That's true, that's so true.
And when we look at thisalignment also and this
alignment also starts because ofour drive, but not just the
drive, but also our values, ourvalues within a business.
Because, at the end of the day,if we don't know what our
values in business are, I'veactually seen that being one of
(15:40):
the main reasons why a lot ofbusinesses end up collapsing,
because people don't align thebusiness with their values.
Because, at the end of the day,your business is an extension
of you.
Your business values is thesame as yours.
Yeah Well, at least it needs tobe the same.
Then there needs to be a bit ofa coherence between these two.
I would love to hear what areyour values in business, which
(16:03):
also would mean your values.
Speaker 2 (16:06):
Integrity is one of my biggest, biggest ones, and so
, whether that's from making anagreement and then keeping the
agreement to my best ability, orat least communicating if I
can't failing fast, the reallybig one, yeah.
So being able to, as I wastalking about earlier, take
failure or take feedback orcriticism and see it as a growth
(16:28):
process, not as a criticism notas a judgment and probably
connection.
Connection is probably thebiggest thing, like I'm very
much a people person yeah, youare.
So if, if I can't haveconnection within my business.
It doesn't work for me.
So you know, even these lastcouple of years where everything
(16:49):
kind of went virtual, that wasa big hit to my business, not
because I couldn't get the jobs,but because it just didn't feel
right for me.
You know, I love to be inperson with people and to
interact.
To have to do it over a screenit didn't work.
And this is where we can makelittle adjustments right.
So recently I actually madethis adjustment.
One of my corporate clients.
(17:10):
They always, whenever they havea new gig for me, they send over
like a PowerPoint template forme to use to make my
presentations.
And I never really thought aboutthe fact that I actually had a
choice whether I could use thePowerPoint template or not, but
I kept using it and every timethat I would do it I would feel
disconnected from my audience.
Because they're looking at aslide, I might be in a tiny
little window, I don't see themanymore.
(17:31):
I'm not seeing the reaction,the response, the body language,
and so there was no connectionand I work a lot by response and
so if people have questions andthings like that, when you have
a PowerPoint up, especially ina virtual call where it's like
you know, on your Zoom call,you're not thinking to chat over
in the window or talk to theperson, because you're like, oh,
(17:51):
they're doing a presentation,they should be quiet, and so
there's no interaction, so noconnection, and it was killing
me.
And finally, on one of the lastgigs that they sent me, I went
on.
I went to do the presentationand I was about to launch the
PowerPoint, I was like you knowwhat?
No, this doesn't align to myvalue, this doesn't work.
For me good and I toss it out,one of the best calls, best
(18:13):
presentations I've ever given.
We had so much engagement.
The people got so much moreactually value out of it because
they could ask the questionsthat were pertinent to them.
So, yeah, yeah, to be be ableto know what your values are and
then align to them createsmassive success.
Speaker 1 (18:28):
I love that and you know you actually took that leap
of faith and, just, you know,throw out something that is at
least expected of you and youfollow the values that you felt
in alignment with, becausethat's your business values and
they hired you because of yourexpertise and what you do in
your business and that meansthat you bring your values into
(18:49):
that as well.
Yeah, that is, I love that.
Yeah, I love that.
I want to ask you because itwas just kind of triggering a
trail of thought for me when yousaid about the failure I want
to touch it on that one one forone minute the, because this is
something that I see in you.
You see things as an opportunity.
(19:09):
You don't necessarily see it as, oh my goodness, this is going
to fail, it's not going to work.
You've you have a mindset whereyou turn this into an
opportunity.
Can you break that and slowthat really down?
For me because this issomething that is very, very
important for all our viewers isto really start to understand
(19:31):
what does fear of failure mean?
What does it look like and howcan you completely turn this
around?
Because this is what is one ofprobably one of our probably
biggest sabotaging blocks are.
I mean, there's many, but thisis definitely one that I see
with a lot of men who's startingon businesses now, especially
after COVID, you know the waythat we look at business has
completely changed.
(19:51):
You know where there was.
You know shops, for example.
Now it's online shops.
Or you know where you haveworkshops, face-to-face.
Now, suddenly it's online andyou have to look at your
business from a completelydifferent perspective.
And who wouldn't have a fear offailure?
I had a complete breakdown whenI had to think, oh my god, I
have to now teach online.
What does that even look like?
Speaker 2 (20:11):
you know so, and that fear of failure is, it's
tremendous yeah, so the thefirst thing that I think of is,
you know, normally people whenthey're afraid of failure, they
try to plan as much as possible,they try to control every
element and variable and everystep along the way, and so the
(20:32):
first thing to be able toovercome the fear of failure is
start differently.
Don't start with a sense ofperfection, but start with a
sense of adaptability, and andthis makes it much, much easier
to actually have failure happenand go ah, thank you.
So not that way, this way andthis way, and you keep kind of
refining the trajectory thatyou're on.
(20:52):
To do that, though, you have toshift something.
That's, uh, I guess, a broaderscope here.
Most people, especially inbusiness or even in life in
general, they they'regoal-oriented, so they're going
towards a destination, like,okay, I'm here and I want to be
there, I have this much in thebank and I want to have a
million or whatever it is.
(21:12):
Or the company is doing this andI want to make this.
And so there's this goal setup,which is good because it gives
you some motivation and someplanning and structure, but then
you have to let go of the goaland just know that you've
pointed yourself towards it.
I always tell people you know,forget the destination, just
make sure you're in the rightdirection.
And when you do that, now again, it doesn't matter if you've
(21:36):
gotten there yet, as long asyou're still going in the
direction, and the coursecorrection that you're making is
just to be in the rightdirection, not to get there
right.
That you're making is just tobe in the right direction, not
to get there right.
But most of the time if you'rethinking, oh, I have to get
there, everything that isn'tthere yet is a failure yeah, and
so then that's very scary everystep you know, and often it's
like a rainbow.
You're trying to get closer andthen something happens and it's
(21:58):
a little further, and it goes alittle further and a little
further.
Well then, of course you're.
Speaker 1 (22:02):
It's exhausting and helpless that and that you just
hit the nail on the head.
Helplessness, mm-hmm.
Men hate feeling helpless yeahbecause you guys are
biologically designed to lead,to be competent, to know the
answers.
Like I know, when I talk to myhusband when I have a problem,
(22:23):
he's like going straight intoproblem solving.
I'm like can you just listen?
Like let me help.
I'm like I'm not asking foradvice, I need to listen.
So now, when I need to, now, Icall it nowing because that's me
just unpacking, especially whenI talk to him about my business
, because I love talking to himabout my business and strategies
, and I would say to him I amnot asking for advice, I just
(22:46):
need to be heard.
Or I will actually sit down andsay I need your advice, can you
please help me?
And then go straight intoproblem solving and to not have
an answer, to not have asolution, it creates almost a
sense of a deep, deep biologicalsense of panic.
It feels unsafe.
Yeah, I noticed that and theremust have been moments also in
(23:10):
your life maybe where you feltthat as well, and especially in
your business.
Where do you remember the lastmoment when that was for you?
Speaker 2 (23:19):
uh, I'm trying to think in business.
I can think of it in in termsof my family and personal
relationships and things likethis and the way I look at
helplessness, because I dovereally deeply actually into the
sense of helplessness last yearactually I guess a couple of
years back when I realized thatI actually did have PTSD from my
(23:39):
military time.
I never thought I had, but whenI started looking closer at it
I realized that it was very muchthere.
Speaker 1 (23:46):
How did that show up for you?
Just to everyone else, becausethis is actually quite common.
I mean, I'm sure there's manypeople sitting here also that
has been in the military, thathas had traumatic experiences
and they don't know, they can'tsee how this is maybe showing up
in their relationships, howthis is showing up even in their
business.
This knee-jerk reaction of thepanic, the stress, that could
probably be correlated veryclosely to that as well.
Speaker 2 (24:08):
Well, it's funny because apparently my family
knew but I didn't.
And when I would go back tovisit there would just be these
moments where I would just loseit.
And it wasn't that I wasaggressive towards them, but I
would be very aggressive towardsmyself and hitting walls.
And I broke my wrist a coupleof times and for me it was
(24:30):
essentially coming back to thatsense of failure, actually of
thinking I'm failing myself, I'mfailing the ones that I care
for, and that was bigger to methan any kind of ego pride of
whether I'm successful inbusiness or things like that.
But when I started lookingcloser at it and I started going
into the Veterans Affairsoffice to have talks with
(24:51):
psychologists who were dealingwith PTSD things and after the
first visit because I didn'tthink I had PTSD, I just thought
I had some anger- issues orsomething Emotion.
Emotion.
I didn't know what it was.
Wow, and as I started toexplain to this psychologist the
first one that I visited I justburst into tears.
All this stuff came up.
I was like, wow, I didn'trealize that this sense of
(25:14):
helplessness had been there.
And when I was leaving the VAclinic my dad was driving me.
At the time I was back homevisiting and he said something
to me.
That was pretty much the biggestinsight that I've had around
what helplessness really is.
He looked and he goes.
You know, I can't fathom whatyou experienced there.
(25:35):
I don't know what kind of crazytrauma and sights and things
that you had to see or do, but Ican imagine probably the
hardest thing was knowing thatit was against your values.
So we come back to this senseof values and integrity and
things like this that it wasagainst your values.
So we come back to this senseof values and integrity and
things like this.
And it was completely againsteverything that I stand for to
to be harming any other form oflife, like.
(25:55):
I'm a very weak consciousnesskind of guy and to be in a
situation where I might getordered to to harm or kill
somebody was so against myvalues but then to feel helpless
, to say, no, that was thetrauma, right, and and so that
really showed me that ourhelplessness actually has so
(26:17):
much more to do with with are wein alignment with our values in
that moment?
And when we feel like we'rebeing pulled out of it, either
because of an expectation or aquest or a duty or an order,
whatever it is.
And let's say, in business, ifyou're there and you really want
to be of service and this andthat, but now the business is
going under because you need achange.
(26:37):
Maybe you're marketing and youkeep being told, no, just do a
little bit of the sneakymarketing Like it'll help, your
business will do.
Well, you think, okay, maybe Iwill.
There's this moment in thatthat you're feeling helpless
because you're going againstwhat is true for you, and when
that happens is when realfailure happens, right, and when
(26:58):
when you lose it, because it'snot that you were helpless in
your resources or in yourchoices, but it was that you
felt helpless in following whatwas true for you.
Speaker 1 (27:10):
That was very powerful, that was incredibly
insightful, even even for me,but I can absolutely see, from
just my perspective, how thisrings true for so many men that
is listening right now and whatI wanted to ask you, that that
striked me, that made me reallycurious about this feeling of
(27:31):
helplessness.
What do you think could be thepotential starting point of that
, like when there's somethingthat you've got but you feel
like I have to go againstsomething that is important to
me and now you feel that senseof helplessness.
Why do you feel thehelplessness is there,
especially for you?
If you have to take it for anexample for you, what was your
(27:54):
journey like?
Why do you feel thehelplessness was there?
Speaker 2 (27:57):
I think the biggest thing was because there was a
voice that said I'm not allowedto ask for help.
I've got to do this myself.
I've got to handle this myself.
I have to make sure I'm showingup strong.
I can't fall off my white horseLike that was probably the
(28:19):
biggest thing.
Is is, for instance, if I'mlooking at the, the family,
personal relations, where I wasfeeling helpless.
It was because maybe my partnerwanted one thing from me and my
family member wanted somethingelse, and even just something
simple like attention or timetogether, for something to feel
like I can't actually make achoice where somebody's not
going to get hurt or somebody'snot going to feel like I've not
(28:40):
shown up.
That makes me helpless.
And so that's where, for me, itreally is feeling like there's
no choice, that I can't ask forhelp or make a request as to
what I want.
That's actually probably theother big piece is knowing that
it's okay to ask for what anindividual wants instead of just
trying to please those outsideof them.
Speaker 1 (29:01):
And this is bringing this full circle back to having
your own business asking forhelp, this full circle back to
having your own business askingfor help, recognizing that you
are in a place, in a space whereit's not even asking for help
delegate, where you just need todelegate something to someone
because you've reached yourlimitation in your capacity.
But there's such a sense of Ihave to do it all on my own, I
(29:25):
have to carry the burden all onmy own when you are in business,
that it's almost unfathomableto even think of asking for help
, because asking for help meansthat you are now either weak,
you don't know what to do, orpeople will think that you're
being unresourced and anotherone on there.
Speaker 2 (29:41):
It means that at the end, when you reach the, the
goal, you can't claim it as yourown.
And if people are moving intotrying to succeed because
they're trying to provesomething, it never works and
that's why we have to come backand drop the proving.
And is it because you want todo this?
Is there something in you thatwants to give this as a service
or a business?
Speaker 1 (30:03):
you know, and that you just nailed it there again
when you said when it's inservice, because then everything
is not always necessarily aboutyou or how great you look.
But this is now something that'sin service of a greater good
and it opens up a space forpeople to come in to support
people with that service.
And when you look at anybusiness that any man here has
(30:33):
right now, there is a service ofhumanity or towards humanity,
at least within that business,if you just open yourself up to
that potential that alreadyexists yeah and wow, that was
really powerful what you said.
So what I'm also hearing is thatthere's an element.
There's an element of peopleoften, sometimes trying to find
their self-worth and theirindividuality, yeah, through
(30:55):
what they're doing.
But when we do that, isn't itthat our individuality and our
power is now outside of us,because we have to take an
action in order to feel it,rather than already just have it
?
Speaker 2 (31:09):
yeah, and if our efforts not recognized, all of a
sudden, everything we wereseeking is gone because we
weren't holding the power.
We've given it to the customer,the client, the, you know
results that are being soughtafter.
Speaker 1 (31:21):
Yeah and that can probably spiral or put a person,
you know, those five stepsforward and then 10 steps back,
but then you're back into thatspace of feeling helpless again,
of feeling that I can't ask forhelp.
Or how do I fix this?
In order to fix it, maybe Ineed to ask for expertise and
maybe need to ask for support,and people just don't know how
(31:42):
to do that.
How did you ask for help?
Or how did you learn to ask forhelp?
Because even just going to apsychologist that's asking for
help.
Speaker 2 (31:54):
And on the business level, it was learning how real
businesses work.
There's a difference betweenhaving a job and having a
business.
A job, that's you.
You're exchanging your time,your energy, for a paycheck,
whether that's for an employeror self-employed.
As an entrepreneur, it's you.
You're exchanging your time,your energy for a paycheck,
whether that's for an employeror self-employed.
As an entrepreneur, it's stilla job.
When you're running a business,now, you're creating a service
(32:17):
that's for a community, forothers, for the clients.
It's not really about you, andwhat I found when we're looking
at how do we ask for help inthat is, as I studied more and
more from successful businessowners and things like this, the
thing that struck me the most,the beginning of their journey,
was investment and the fact thatthe majority of really, really
(32:40):
successful businesses did not doit on their own even from the
beginning.
Own even from the beginning, itwas somebody else's influence
finance, uh, knowledge, or evenjust the labor.
Somebody else does it and youyou're coming in with an idea,
yeah, and from that idea thenyou can map out how you would
(33:01):
delegate the duties and theresources that are needed for
that and you come together, andso it was really a big
eye-opener to kind of go okay,so wait, all these like super
successful names that we hearout there, they're not the ones
who succeeded.
It was them and their entireteam, them and their entire
company, right.
Speaker 1 (33:21):
That is very powerful within that already just there
as well, and I love theawareness that you have.
You know you picked up also onthat investment.
You picked up on the pattern ofwhat is it that all these
successful people have in commonand how did you apply that to
your life?
Speaker 2 (33:39):
uh well, I continue to do so um as best I can where
it's that, I love that, so youcontinue to do so.
Speaker 1 (33:45):
It's not a one-off thing.
Speaker 2 (33:47):
No.
Speaker 1 (33:49):
And this is what people often fail to.
Sorry for interrupting, but itwas so important.
The moment you said that I'mlike it's not a one-off thing,
it's continuous practice,because a lot of people think,
oh well, now I did that, sowhat's?
Speaker 2 (33:59):
next yeah.
And it's like the top CEOs thetop executives will have a coach
, somebody who may not have anyidea about their industry, but
(34:20):
can help them become a biggerperformer, because they see the
blind spots that they're notseeing.
And so it's simply that, nomatter where you are on the rung
, it's to know that you can askfor help.
And so, as you're saying, it'snot a one-step thing where, okay
, you know, at the beginning Ineeded help, but now I'm off on
my own.
No, you're going to run out ofsteam eventually.
(34:43):
To be able to ask for helpmeans that you're doing two
things You're asking for helpabove you, from the people that
have succeeded already, havegone down that path, have a
proven track, whatever it is,and then you're also taking time
to help the people beneath you,to bring them up, and those are
going to be your employees,your teammates, the people
(35:04):
you're delegating to.
You want to be shaping theminto leaders of their own,
because then that just pushesyou forward and you're
continuing to learn.
But, yeah, if people are lookingagain, it comes back to this
idea of destination.
They're like I made it to theCEO level.
The company is doing this much.
Okay, I don't need to doanything anymore, I don't need
to learn anymore.
I proved what I wanted to prove.
Well, that only lasts for aslong as it's recognized and then
(35:38):
it's gone.
And if you stop doing, if youstop creating and, through
inspiration, giving into theworld, then you actually get
forgotten and that success andwhatever you tried to prove is
gone.
So it's about continuing togrow.
I guess that's really the wordis.
We get to continue to grow allthe time and have that growth
mindset about things.
Also, that then goes into whenyou have something like what's
happened in the last two yearsas a business, you may have done
really well, to haveaccomplished a lot and gotten to
(35:59):
a certain place, and theneverything changes.
If you're not willing to grow,to learn, to keep moving forward
and to ask for help from thosethat could help you do that,
then your business goes away.
Speaker 1 (36:10):
That is.
I mean, it takes teamwork tomake a dream work, and I
sometimes also say that ifpeople are working with others,
because some people are solo,some people work with teams I've
come to learn that yourbusiness can only be as good as
your relationship with yourselfif you're solo and if you have a
team, your business can only beas good as your relationship
with yourself if you're solo andif you have a team, your
business can only be as good asyour people, and it really takes
(36:33):
also a lot to invest in thesepeople and to look at what is
your relationship dynamics withthem.
And one of the biggestchallenges that I also see with
men in business is thatsometimes we have really great
people that are very sharp, butthey don't align with your
values, and I see that createssometimes conflict in businesses
(36:55):
, and sometimes people havedifferent agendas because they
don't agree with yours.
So now they're creating theirown because they think they're
saving the world, but goingagainst you as their leader.
And I'm sure we've a lot andI've seen that, especially
working with so many differentcultures and countries, and how
have you seen how culturalconflicts can come into a
business as well, because thisis something that you would be
(37:18):
like.
Speaker 2 (37:18):
this is like right up your alley yeah, when this
comes back to the idea of why,while you're growing and
learning from somebody that'sdone the things that you're
seeking to do, you're alsoteaching those beneath you to
become leaders themselves that'sit, because if if you're
helping the person that'sbeneath you, they're not going
to be trying to to, um, takeyour job, essentially take your
(37:39):
position, they're happy for it.
So I have a philosophy of givebefore it can be taken right.
And so, yeah, you essentiallycreate a company culture where
it's about developing leadership, it's about developing people,
rather than trying to keep ahierarchy of okay, I'm the top
dog and you know, you guys arehere to listen to me.
(37:59):
That just creates resentmentand bitterness and then people
overthrow you because they seethat also as sorry.
Speaker 1 (38:06):
It's like as an opposition.
Now, when there's the, what Isee with men is that the moment
there's resistance, it's fight.
There's no such thing.
Let's talk about it where we'llbe, like, well, let's sit down,
how do you feel about it?
And the men is just like brah,you know, and they bark, and so
what I'm curious is, when welook at it from that perspective
(38:27):
, when there is maybe resistance, when we look at it from that
perspective when there is mayberesistance, where there is maybe
a lack of seeing eye to eye,what can people do to address
this in a more calmer way andfor it not to escalate to a
place of having to betrayal orhaving to maybe have an anger
(38:48):
spat or having to raise voicesor threat, because I see a lot
of men who are in leadership.
This is where the power becomesnow abusive, where they would
threaten employees or they wouldget really aggressive or they
will give them ultimatums, andthat's the opposite of inspiring
your people, because now you'reinjecting toxicity into the,
(39:10):
the heart of your company yeah,yeah, and you don't want people
to be following you out of fear.
You want them to follow you outof respect.
Speaker 2 (39:18):
Yeah, yeah, that was a big thing I learned in the
military actually, wow.
Okay, it's an interestingquestion because you again so
much of this stuff is.
You almost want to startproperly, but most of the time
people haven't.
So they get to a certain placeand they're like, well, how do
we fix this mess?
the biggest piece there is thatthe leadership be humble right
(39:39):
because if, if your company hasgotten a culture that that isn't
working, that's not aligned,that there's conflict, that
there's these internal strugglesand things like that, it's
because the leadership itdoesn't mean individually as
whoever you are as a leader, butit simply means that the
leadership structure and how itwas set up wasn't done in a way
(40:01):
that would actually create aunified team towards a vision.
It was more okay, we're workingunder you and you're doing doing
this and you're getting allthat, but we're not getting much
, you know.
And so there's this idea of howdo we create a fair share where
people are being rewarded forthe effort and the inspiration
and motivation that they have,rather than am I putting people
(40:23):
against each other by saying,okay, well, if you do a better
job, I'll give you a promotion,if you don't and you know you
get less you don't get the, thefun job or the project, or this
creates competition.
Competition for creativity canbe great.
Competition for resources no,everybody should really be given
the same resources toaccomplish a task, to, you know,
(40:45):
take care of themselves andthings like that.
So, fair wages, fair profitsharing.
If that's a model thatsomebody's following, things
like this, it's where the team.
All benefits from the companydoing well.
Speaker 1 (40:59):
That's true and it comes back to exactly what you
were saying about when there's,for example, lack of equality,
how that can also triggerfeelings of helplessness,
because you know if, if, iftheir growth is based on a top
leader and there is abuse, ifthere's intimidation, if there's
fear, it creates a feeling ofhopelessness in terms of how am
(41:22):
I going to climb up if there'sfavorism or if yeah, exactly
these things happening as welland I'm sure you see that a lot
in the corporations when you docoaching with them as well.
Speaker 2 (41:33):
Yeah, there's certain levels within.
When you do a cultural audit, acorporate cultural audit of how
the trust level is, and eachlevel will dictate that.
The worst is when there'sabsolutely no trust of
leadership and people are justthere for the paycheck and then
you get kind of siloed thingswhere they're not trusting the
(41:54):
different departments and thenyou might have not trusting the
success that the company willachieve, the goals that they're
saying or the stakeholders.
And the top level of the bestkind of culture is where all
people involved within thevision of a company, which
obviously has to be defined verywell, and that's normally,
that's normally.
The crux is that the visionhasn't been defined, because the
(42:15):
vision often is that the personwho started it was trying to
prove something and so we comeback right, yeah, and.
but if you have a vision that'svery clear and people can buy
into it and be inspired by it,you don't really run into these
issues because you're on thesame team, you're after the same
goal.
Speaker 1 (42:35):
How can someone who is maybe listening right now and
they're going, oh my God,that's me.
That's me Like I don't want toadmit it, but that's me how can
they start to create that clearvision, that clear direction,
even if it's just small littlesteps?
How can they start to createthat clear vision, that clear
direction, even if it's justsmall little steps?
How can they start creatingthat?
Speaker 2 (42:54):
well, I come back to the word of being humble.
Humility, okay, because youhave to admit where you're at if
you want to improve, and itdoesn't mean that there's
anything wrong.
But if, if you're trying to belike, no, I've got this handled
and everything's fine and I'vebeen doing it well and I never
made a mistake, but it's justnot working and it must be
somebody else's fault, no, itwon't work.
Humility is taking ownershipand accountability for what the
(43:19):
results are.
Speaker 1 (43:19):
I want to frame that.
I love that.
That is so true.
It's so true.
And you know, I can even seethat for me.
You know in the past for me howthat would.
If I wish I had, you know, yousitting on my shoulder saying,
well, hey, yvette, let's just,let's just revise this a little
bit, because I think for a lotof people and they might be able
(43:41):
to relate is that we don't wantto feel that it can be our
fault, based on our actions orreactions, that we are where we
are right now.
We're always looking forsomething outside of us to blame
.
I call this the nanny state,where people tend to blame the
government for everything,certain experiences they have,
and validly so, but it's also,to a certain extent, where are
(44:04):
you going to step up to createthe experience that you choose
to have, instead of feeling thatyou're passively just following
all the time?
Yeah, yeah.
I love that.
Is there one word of advicethat you can say for any
business owner right now,whether it's a startup, whether
they're currently busy, butthey're just feeling just a
little bit challenged or stucknow?
But regardless of what thechallenge is because at the end
(44:25):
of the the day, it's the mindsetthat needs to shift yeah, um,
it's going to be a funny word touse but play, play.
Speaker 2 (44:36):
Like when you're too thick in it and and you're too
close to the canvas of themasterpiece that you're trying
to create, you need to step back, relax and and let the
creativity start to flow again,or at least take your mind off
of it for a moment and so play.
You know, I, I, I really lovethe balance between whether it's
(44:56):
play or rest, and productivity,because if you're just on the
go, go, go, go, go, there'snever time for innovation,
there's never time forimprovement, there's never time
for feedback and review, and soyou might be doing something
with so much motivation, so muchenergy and you're just going
down the wrong path right, yeah,I've done, we've all been there
(45:17):
I've done it too.
You want to make sure that you,you play, and especially when
you hit those points and andit's one of the hardest things
to do, because you're like Idon't have time to play like the
business is going under.
You have time because if youdon't, I'll bring it to a
different um perspective hereyeah so if you went to the gym
and you're just, you know, sevendays a week, three hours a day,
(45:40):
you're at the gym, you just goand go and go, you never take a
break, you're not actually goingto see very many results
because your body can't handlethe strain that you're causing
it and also grow at the sametime, and so it needs those
moments of rest, those momentsof play, of relaxation, to
actually then integrate theeffort you did, and then it
starts to build the muscle,builds these other things.
(46:02):
Same thing with your businessif you're on it too much, then
there's never that time tointegrate, to have something
land, land in, to realize, oh,maybe this structure we're doing
here isn't working and weshould do this instead and we
also have internal things goingon.
Speaker 1 (46:16):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (46:16):
We have inner children, right, and that inner
child wants to play.
And imagine if you'reconstantly telling that child,
no, no, after we reach our goal,after we reach our goal, then
we can play.
And eventually the child's likeyou're never taking a break,
you're never playing.
You keep saying that I don'ttrust you anymore, I'm taking
matters into my own hands.
Well, there we go, and thatinner child will sabotage the
(46:40):
things that you're doing.
And so, all of a sudden, thebusiness becomes worse.
You have more of a world, morestress, a document goes missing
because of whatever, andabsent-mindedness, all the stuff
.
It's actually the inner childplaying with you, so give it
what it needs so that thatdoesn't happen that is so true.
Speaker 1 (46:59):
I love that, and it's also about knowing that we can
grow through that place ofcuriosity, because that's what
children do when they play.
They play because they'recurious and that's where we grow
.
So remember to play andremember to stay in that playful
state of curiosity, becausethat's where Steve Jobs had
their breakthroughs, that'swhere scientists have
(47:21):
breakthroughs day after day.
Because they remain curious,they keep asking questions in a
playful way.
They don't get frustrated.
It's almost like you move likea river.
The moment there's a rock, youflow around.
Remain curious, they keepasking questions from a playful
way.
Speaker 2 (47:32):
They don't get frustrated they actually.
Speaker 1 (47:33):
It's almost like you know you move like a river.
The moment there's a rock, youflow around it.
You don't try to go over it orthrough it, you just well, it
goes around, it's okay and it'seffortless, it's flawless when.
Have fun with life again.
Yes, I love that.
Wonderful Rolfo.
Thank you so much for your time, your energy, your wisdom and
everything that you've beensharing here with everyone here
(47:54):
today as well.
It was absolutely invaluable,and even for me as well.
I feel like I'm kind of likesneaking into the main summit
here and learning so much, andI'm really thankful for it
because it was very, veryinsightful and the hard moments
that I absolutely had that I'mgoing to be taking away here as
well.
So I'm telling my husband towatch the summit as well.
It was very good, that's great.
So a very big thank you to youfor being here thank you so much
(48:17):
and guys, thank you also somuch for being here with me and
until next time, be the lightthat you are.
Bye everyone.
Hi everyone.
Yvette Rose here and welcome toMen in Business Summit and guys
.
I am so excited to have RodolfoYoung here with me today.
Thank you so much for makingtime and being with us.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
My pleasure.
Speaker 1 (00:25):
So excited.
And, guys, for those of you whodon't know Rodolfo, he's a
former US Army Special Ops andhe's also now deeply practicing
the APE approach to live a moremindfulness life and also to
dive more deep into personaldevelopment.
And he was also two years insilent meditation.
And now, rodolfo, you'reworking with CEOs and
(00:47):
celebrities and also topinfluencers to help them to
improve their quality of lifeand also their strategies, and
you have almost 21 certificatesand you work with thousands of
people as well around the world.
And he's even also a writer atthe Ariana Huffington Drive
Globe and he also has shared thestage get this scared the stage
with Eckhart Tolle, with DeepakChopra, with Tony Robbins, also
(01:10):
with Marianne Williamson, andhe's now the founder of the
brilliant Center here in Ubud inBali, where we are right now.
Whoo right, did I catcheverything?
Speaker 2 (01:22):
got it.
Speaker 1 (01:23):
What an amazing life that you've had.
So, just from that introductionalready, it just already
grabbed me when I heard USmilitary.
And now you have this beautiful, heart-centered business and
it's like, wow, how did thateven happen for you, even
(01:47):
happened for you?
Where?
Where was the the pull for youfrom moving from a place of a
military background to going 360degrees or at least that's what
it feels like, that's what itlooks like for us to moving into
, diving into the heart, divinginto your emotions.
Speaker 2 (02:04):
I think I almost look at it like a seesaw, where you
know if you've got one end ofthe seesaw and you're way up
here and this is like thismilitary assertive, you know,
violent, sometimes very, veryyang, masculine, strong kind of
energy going in and eventuallygravity is going to get you and
you're just going to kind ofslide down to the other side.
(02:26):
So it's balance, I think for themost part, and actually I take
that back.
It doesn't just happennaturally.
When you stop actively doingwhatever it is that you're doing
at one extreme of the seesaw orthe spectrum or the pendulum,
then that stillness allows youto actually slide to the other
side.
And so I think that was what itwas From the military and
(02:47):
everything that was going onthere.
Even when I was there I stillhad some balance and was really
into personal development andthings.
But when I finally got myselfout of that, it was an immediate
stillness and stopping andpausing and from that I just
very naturally moved into thebalance of personal development
and holistics and spiritualityone thing that you said that
(03:10):
that also captured me here justfor a second.
Speaker 1 (03:12):
There was when you talked about the masculinity,
the, the abrasiveness, orperhaps as aggression, as most
of us would interpretmasculinity being, and something
that I find, quite, you know,admirable about you.
So if that's the perfect wordto use in English English is my
second language, bear with mebut if that's the word I can use
(03:33):
here for you, is that I findyou to be such a wonderful
expression of masculinity, avery strong, solid presence, but
not in that you know, boostingtype of pushy or, um, I wouldn't
say manipulative but aggressivetype of of approach.
You have a completely differentapproach, yet you still remain
(03:55):
very masculine, like I wouldn'tactually call you being feminine
, and this is something that alot, and this is something that
a lot of men, I think, struggleto find a balance when they are
in business, when they are beingentrepreneurs.
It's how do I show up, how do Ishow my power, how do I assert
respect, how do I create beingthe leader that I want to be?
(04:19):
Because sometimes, when we thinkabout leaderships, we think of
men who are very you know,sometimes even abusive,
sometimes very controlling,sometimes a little bit too
honest, which can come forwardas feeling very intimidating,
but I've seen you having such adifferent and unique approach,
especially as a business ownernow, and quite successfully, in
(04:41):
what you're doing at the momentand have been doing for quite a
while now.
How did you find that balance?
How did you create that spaceof being masculine but still
being in business and justnailing it down so, so perfectly
?
Speaker 2 (04:56):
I think there's a few different things that come to
my mind of how that happened.
The first one was I took mytime, you know, I think being
able to cultivate a foundationfirst and step on that, and it's
almost like you're building thesteps towards your success,
that you get solid footing ateach way.
When you have solid footing,you don't assert yourself in an
(05:18):
outward way because you don'tneed to.
You become a magnet or anexample of what it is that
you're doing.
I think a lot of times where,especially for the masculine, if
we're trying to prove or ifwe're trying to fulfill that
social role of the provider andprotector, but almost in the way
of keeping up with the Jonesesstyle, rather than actually
(05:40):
having the resources andactually having the stability
physically, emotionally,financially, all these things
then the consistency isn't there, but rather it's just this
gunshot approach of constantlytrying to no, look I did this,
oh, look I did this, or, if Igamble on this, maybe it'll
finally come.
When we do that, there'sactually no stability.
(06:01):
So of course you're going toget men that are huffing and
puffing but the slightest littleyou know flick and they're
gonna fall over because there'sno stability, right.
So for me, the biggest thingwas taking my time and creating
stability and and that means notbeing in any urgency of it, not
trying to run away from where Ifelt there was weakness this is
(06:22):
actually one of the biggest,biggest things I'll say on the
level of masculinity, not justin business but in life.
I can always tell a boy from aman, and the way I can tell is
how they respond to criticism,how they respond to criticism.
So if it's a boy, we'll justsay an immature or even an
unbalanced masculinity or toxicmasculinity.
(06:43):
If they're given criticism andthey get super defensive, then
they're still kind of getting tothat stability that I'm talking
about, if they actually answerwith oh interesting.
Thank you for that feedback.
Let me look at that, let me seeif any of that's true and own
it if it is, and see how I canimprove.
That's a man, that'smasculinity, that's the
(07:05):
stability that says okay, I canbe responsible.
Speaker 1 (07:10):
Wow, and that's powerful.
I'm still digesting what yousaid.
That is so incredibly and itfeels so true as well.
It feels right.
I fully agree with you.
And when you said, when theytake that place of
responsibility, do you feel thatmaybe the reason why a lot of
(07:30):
men you know push, push againstthat responsibility or do become
offensive or do revert to that,that inner child, almost like
that type of response?
Because because there was maybea point in time where there was
too much responsibility, andit's almost like there's now
what I would call like anallergic reaction to
responsibility?
(07:51):
Because and the reason why I'mbringing this up is when we look
at generational patterns of menalways having to be the
provider, being the financialbreadwinner, securing everything
, making sure the children'seducation is done, making sure
the wife has money that sheneeds to buy food for the house,
and it's like there's a lot ofresponsibility that comes with
that alone and not being able toshow your emotions as well.
(08:13):
How?
How do we bring?
Because every business, everybusiness that we start or have
at least things from our past,pours over into this business
every single time, and that'swhy I love the song, because
it's conscious men in business.
So it's all about beingconsciously aware of how wounds
(08:37):
can overflow into your business,and has this something that
maybe has happened with you andmaybe advice that you can give,
or ways to catch these momentswhere there is a moment where we
do need to take responsibility,but it's bringing up old stuff,
and so it's almost like nowyou're fighting with your
emotions and you're having todeal with having to be now an
(09:01):
adult and show up strong in thismoment at the same time and and
I've been in situations likethat and I've seen many men also
in business finding this to bequite a battle that they have to
face with on a regular basisyeah, I think it's funny because
when, when I started doing morecorporate coaching, I always
said it was an odd mix, becauseI come in there and I'll work
(09:24):
with an executive and oftenit'll be a male executive and if
I can get them to heal thewounds that they've succeeded so
well in their life, becausethey were trying to prove
otherwise to that wound, theywere trying to avoid that hurt
or avoid that overwhelm or somuch responsibility, and they
finally realized, oh, realize,oh, wow, I don't need to prove
(09:46):
that I'm worthy to my fatheranymore or I don't need to do
this or that.
Speaker 2 (09:48):
Or then you know, the motivation for their all the
success they have, sometimesshifts.
So it wasn't so good for repeatbusiness, but it's good for
people's lives.
So when I look at that, itshows me what the pattern often
is is that we start to do thingsin life not because of what we
(10:09):
want, but because of what isexpected of us, or what we think
we should be doing, or how weshould be showing up, or because
we're afraid of not being seenin those ways.
And anytime that's the case,again you're on shaky footing.
You don't have a stability,stability there which makes it
very hard actually to.
We'll call it um succeed calmlyright you know the the.
(10:31):
You look at some of the topexecs and or business owners,
entrepreneurs they're a wrecklike.
They're just so anxious all thetime and and on to the next
thing or this that you even seein just in marketing a lot.
You know, if, if you have aproduct and as soon as it's out
you've got to be working on yournext product just to try to
keep the interest of a market,then it's because there's
(10:53):
something going on in you, notbecause of the market.
You haven't taken the time tobelieve.
Oh wait, they would stickaround because of the
relationship I can develop withthem.
But no, they're just here forthe value I might give right now
and again.
Shotgun approach, yes.
So yeah, I think that's thebiggest advice that I can give
is learn to look at your ownpersonal development.
First, look at what's going onand again that distinction
(11:16):
between a boy to a man.
Be okay with the criticism, beokay with the failures, be okay
with the, the not fulfillingexpectations and things like
that.
But then look at why it didn'thappen and and find what's
balanced for you and and it'samazing what happens when we
actually come from a stableplace that's.
Speaker 1 (11:34):
That's so true.
What you said, and what I'malso hearing with this
explanation that you just gave,is is to overcome that fear of
failure.
Yes, huge fear of failure,because even when I was thinking
about what you were doing inthe military here, you were in a
position well at least from myperspective where you follow,
you have to take orders, youhave to take instructions.
(11:55):
It's not like you're left byyour own device to kind of like,
do what you please, as we cando in our business.
How did you make thattransition of being someone that
was in a position of taking,perhaps, instructions and now
you're in the position where youare the one giving instructions
?
Speaker 2 (12:13):
you are now in that place of leadership well, it's
an interesting hierarchy in themilitary and I'm going to
divulge a little bit of whathappens in the internal workings
of the military um you know,you have the enlisted, and then
you have officers and you haveleadership.
That's creating strategy.
And then you have those who areactually implementing the
strategy.
Most of the time, those who arecreating the strategy are not
(12:38):
really in tune with how it wouldbe implemented.
And so quite often and thisdoesn't go for every branch of
the military, um, or every unitor battalion, but at least in
mine, it was often the case thatthere'd be these great, lofty
goals and they'd come say, okay,I want this by this afternoon,
right, and?
And you shake your head, yes,sir, you know, and.
(12:59):
And they'd go.
And then you turn to the yourother, you know, uh, I'm not
colleagues, but the othersoldiers in your unit.
And you'd be like okay, so howare we going to do this?
What do we like?
And so there's actually anamazing amount of independence
and self-reliance.
That happens Because whenyou're given an order by
somebody, they don't give you aninstruction manual with it.
Speaker 1 (13:20):
You have to figure it out.
Speaker 2 (13:21):
Yeah, they just give you.
Here's the result that we want,okay, and we need it by this
time, and so then you actuallydo have to get very creative and
take a bit of a management ofyourself and definitely
responsibility to get it done.
Speaker 1 (13:33):
Right.
Speaker 2 (13:33):
I remember one very, very good example of this, when
I had just finished all mytraining and it was, I think,
like the first week that I wasassigned to the first unit that
I was in.
I think like the first weekthat I was assigned to the first
unit that I was in and thehigher cadres so like upper
majors and actually not ageneral but just below them had
come in and they were going tohave a huge meeting of all the
(13:56):
officers on a mission that wewere going to be doing and it
was in a certain country, andthey came to me like what do you
know about this country?
And I was like nothing.
And they came to me like whatdo you know about this country?
And I was like nothing.
And they dropped like a stackof papers of research about this
big on this one country, andthey said okay, in about two
hours we need a full PowerPointpresentation You're going to be
(14:16):
presenting to the higher cadre,which is like all the officers
on deployment strategies,culture, assessment, risks, this
and that, and left.
And I'm just sitting there goingokay, and I did it and I think
(14:37):
probably one of the biggestthings I actually learned out of
the military was again thisidea of capacity that we have.
When you realize that if youbelieve believe that you can
then you normally find theresources.
And when it comes to business,this is huge that if you simply
go okay, here's the goal andhere's what I want to do it and
I believe it's possible, right,and you don't have to look
around and see examples of otherpeople who have done it now
(15:00):
then you have to come back toyourself and be like do I want
to do it?
And that in in the military, Ididn't have the choice.
Right In business, you have thechoice and so you go.
Do I want to do this?
Because if you don't want to,you won't have the motivation to
actually carry it through.
Yeah, so you do have to bealigned in the tasks and the
projects you take on.
Speaker 1 (15:17):
That's true, that's so true.
And when we look at thisalignment also and this
alignment also starts because ofour drive, but not just the
drive, but also our values, ourvalues within a business.
Because, at the end of the day,if we don't know what our
values in business are, I'veactually seen that being one of
(15:40):
the main reasons why a lot ofbusinesses end up collapsing,
because people don't align thebusiness with their values.
Because, at the end of the day,your business is an extension
of you.
Your business values is thesame as yours.
Yeah Well, at least it needs tobe the same.
Then there needs to be a bit ofa coherence between these two.
I would love to hear what areyour values in business, which
(16:03):
also would mean your values.
Speaker 2 (16:06):
Integrity is one of my biggest, biggest ones, and so
, whether that's from making anagreement and then keeping the
agreement to my best ability, orat least communicating if I
can't failing fast, the reallybig one, yeah.
So being able to, as I wastalking about earlier, take
failure or take feedback orcriticism and see it as a growth
(16:28):
process, not as a criticism notas a judgment and probably
connection.
Connection is probably thebiggest thing, like I'm very
much a people person yeah, youare.
So if, if I can't haveconnection within my business.
It doesn't work for me.
So you know, even these lastcouple of years where everything
(16:49):
kind of went virtual, that wasa big hit to my business, not
because I couldn't get the jobs,but because it just didn't feel
right for me.
You know, I love to be inperson with people and to
interact.
To have to do it over a screenit didn't work.
And this is where we can makelittle adjustments right.
So recently I actually madethis adjustment.
One of my corporate clients.
(17:10):
They always, whenever they havea new gig for me, they send over
like a PowerPoint template forme to use to make my
presentations.
And I never really thought aboutthe fact that I actually had a
choice whether I could use thePowerPoint template or not, but
I kept using it and every timethat I would do it I would feel
disconnected from my audience.
Because they're looking at aslide, I might be in a tiny
little window, I don't see themanymore.
(17:31):
I'm not seeing the reaction,the response, the body language,
and so there was no connectionand I work a lot by response and
so if people have questions andthings like that, when you have
a PowerPoint up, especially ina virtual call where it's like
you know, on your Zoom call,you're not thinking to chat over
in the window or talk to theperson, because you're like, oh,
(17:51):
they're doing a presentation,they should be quiet, and so
there's no interaction, so noconnection, and it was killing
me.
And finally, on one of the lastgigs that they sent me, I went
on.
I went to do the presentationand I was about to launch the
PowerPoint, I was like you knowwhat?
No, this doesn't align to myvalue, this doesn't work.
For me good and I toss it out,one of the best calls, best
(18:13):
presentations I've ever given.
We had so much engagement.
The people got so much moreactually value out of it because
they could ask the questionsthat were pertinent to them.
So, yeah, yeah, to be be ableto know what your values are and
then align to them createsmassive success.
Speaker 1 (18:28):
I love that and you know you actually took that leap
of faith and, just, you know,throw out something that is at
least expected of you and youfollow the values that you felt
in alignment with, becausethat's your business values and
they hired you because of yourexpertise and what you do in
your business and that meansthat you bring your values into
(18:49):
that as well.
Yeah, that is, I love that.
Yeah, I love that.
I want to ask you because itwas just kind of triggering a
trail of thought for me when yousaid about the failure I want
to touch it on that one one forone minute the, because this is
something that I see in you.
You see things as an opportunity.
(19:09):
You don't necessarily see it as, oh my goodness, this is going
to fail, it's not going to work.
You've you have a mindset whereyou turn this into an
opportunity.
Can you break that and slowthat really down?
For me because this issomething that is very, very
important for all our viewers isto really start to understand
(19:31):
what does fear of failure mean?
What does it look like and howcan you completely turn this
around?
Because this is what is one ofprobably one of our probably
biggest sabotaging blocks are.
I mean, there's many, but thisis definitely one that I see
with a lot of men who's startingon businesses now, especially
after COVID, you know the waythat we look at business has
completely changed.
(19:51):
You know where there was.
You know shops, for example.
Now it's online shops.
Or you know where you haveworkshops, face-to-face.
Now, suddenly it's online andyou have to look at your
business from a completelydifferent perspective.
And who wouldn't have a fear offailure?
I had a complete breakdown whenI had to think, oh my god, I
have to now teach online.
What does that even look like?
Speaker 2 (20:11):
you know so, and that fear of failure is, it's
tremendous yeah, so the thefirst thing that I think of is,
you know, normally people whenthey're afraid of failure, they
try to plan as much as possible,they try to control every
element and variable and everystep along the way, and so the
(20:32):
first thing to be able toovercome the fear of failure is
start differently.
Don't start with a sense ofperfection, but start with a
sense of adaptability, and andthis makes it much, much easier
to actually have failure happenand go ah, thank you.
So not that way, this way andthis way, and you keep kind of
refining the trajectory thatyou're on.
(20:52):
To do that, though, you have toshift something.
That's, uh, I guess, a broaderscope here.
Most people, especially inbusiness or even in life in
general, they they'regoal-oriented, so they're going
towards a destination, like,okay, I'm here and I want to be
there, I have this much in thebank and I want to have a
million or whatever it is.
(21:12):
Or the company is doing this andI want to make this.
And so there's this goal setup,which is good because it gives
you some motivation and someplanning and structure, but then
you have to let go of the goaland just know that you've
pointed yourself towards it.
I always tell people you know,forget the destination, just
make sure you're in the rightdirection.
And when you do that, now again, it doesn't matter if you've
(21:36):
gotten there yet, as long asyou're still going in the
direction, and the coursecorrection that you're making is
just to be in the rightdirection, not to get there
right.
That you're making is just tobe in the right direction, not
to get there right.
But most of the time if you'rethinking, oh, I have to get
there, everything that isn'tthere yet is a failure yeah, and
so then that's very scary everystep you know, and often it's
like a rainbow.
You're trying to get closer andthen something happens and it's
(21:58):
a little further, and it goes alittle further and a little
further.
Well then, of course you're.
Speaker 1 (22:02):
It's exhausting and helpless that and that you just
hit the nail on the head.
Helplessness, mm-hmm.
Men hate feeling helpless yeahbecause you guys are
biologically designed to lead,to be competent, to know the
answers.
Like I know, when I talk to myhusband when I have a problem,
(22:23):
he's like going straight intoproblem solving.
I'm like can you just listen?
Like let me help.
I'm like I'm not asking foradvice, I need to listen.
So now, when I need to, now, Icall it nowing because that's me
just unpacking, especially whenI talk to him about my business
, because I love talking to himabout my business and strategies
, and I would say to him I amnot asking for advice, I just
(22:46):
need to be heard.
Or I will actually sit down andsay I need your advice, can you
please help me?
And then go straight intoproblem solving and to not have
an answer, to not have asolution, it creates almost a
sense of a deep, deep biologicalsense of panic.
It feels unsafe.
Yeah, I noticed that and theremust have been moments also in
(23:10):
your life maybe where you feltthat as well, and especially in
your business.
Where do you remember the lastmoment when that was for you?
Speaker 2 (23:19):
uh, I'm trying to think in business.
I can think of it in in termsof my family and personal
relationships and things likethis and the way I look at
helplessness, because I dovereally deeply actually into the
sense of helplessness last yearactually I guess a couple of
years back when I realized thatI actually did have PTSD from my
(23:39):
military time.
I never thought I had, but whenI started looking closer at it
I realized that it was very muchthere.
Speaker 1 (23:46):
How did that show up for you?
Just to everyone else, becausethis is actually quite common.
I mean, I'm sure there's manypeople sitting here also that
has been in the military, thathas had traumatic experiences
and they don't know, they can'tsee how this is maybe showing up
in their relationships, howthis is showing up even in their
business.
This knee-jerk reaction of thepanic, the stress, that could
probably be correlated veryclosely to that as well.
Speaker 2 (24:08):
Well, it's funny because apparently my family
knew but I didn't.
And when I would go back tovisit there would just be these
moments where I would just loseit.
And it wasn't that I wasaggressive towards them, but I
would be very aggressive towardsmyself and hitting walls.
And I broke my wrist a coupleof times and for me it was
(24:30):
essentially coming back to thatsense of failure, actually of
thinking I'm failing myself, I'mfailing the ones that I care
for, and that was bigger to methan any kind of ego pride of
whether I'm successful inbusiness or things like that.
But when I started lookingcloser at it and I started going
into the Veterans Affairsoffice to have talks with
(24:51):
psychologists who were dealingwith PTSD things and after the
first visit because I didn'tthink I had PTSD, I just thought
I had some anger- issues orsomething Emotion.
Emotion.
I didn't know what it was.
Wow, and as I started toexplain to this psychologist the
first one that I visited I justburst into tears.
All this stuff came up.
I was like, wow, I didn'trealize that this sense of
(25:14):
helplessness had been there.
And when I was leaving the VAclinic my dad was driving me.
At the time I was back homevisiting and he said something
to me.
That was pretty much the biggestinsight that I've had around
what helplessness really is.
He looked and he goes.
You know, I can't fathom whatyou experienced there.
(25:35):
I don't know what kind of crazytrauma and sights and things
that you had to see or do, but Ican imagine probably the
hardest thing was knowing thatit was against your values.
So we come back to this senseof values and integrity and
things like this that it wasagainst your values.
So we come back to this senseof values and integrity and
things like this.
And it was completely againsteverything that I stand for to
to be harming any other form oflife, like.
(25:55):
I'm a very weak consciousnesskind of guy and to be in a
situation where I might getordered to to harm or kill
somebody was so against myvalues but then to feel helpless
, to say, no, that was thetrauma, right, and and so that
really showed me that ourhelplessness actually has so
(26:17):
much more to do with with are wein alignment with our values in
that moment?
And when we feel like we'rebeing pulled out of it, either
because of an expectation or aquest or a duty or an order,
whatever it is.
And let's say, in business, ifyou're there and you really want
to be of service and this andthat, but now the business is
going under because you need achange.
(26:37):
Maybe you're marketing and youkeep being told, no, just do a
little bit of the sneakymarketing Like it'll help, your
business will do.
Well, you think, okay, maybe Iwill.
There's this moment in thatthat you're feeling helpless
because you're going againstwhat is true for you, and when
that happens is when realfailure happens, right, and when
(26:58):
when you lose it, because it'snot that you were helpless in
your resources or in yourchoices, but it was that you
felt helpless in following whatwas true for you.
Speaker 1 (27:10):
That was very powerful, that was incredibly
insightful, even even for me,but I can absolutely see, from
just my perspective, how thisrings true for so many men that
is listening right now and whatI wanted to ask you, that that
striked me, that made me reallycurious about this feeling of
(27:31):
helplessness.
What do you think could be thepotential starting point of that
, like when there's somethingthat you've got but you feel
like I have to go againstsomething that is important to
me and now you feel that senseof helplessness.
Why do you feel thehelplessness is there,
especially for you?
If you have to take it for anexample for you, what was your
(27:54):
journey like?
Why do you feel thehelplessness was there?
Speaker 2 (27:57):
I think the biggest thing was because there was a
voice that said I'm not allowedto ask for help.
I've got to do this myself.
I've got to handle this myself.
I have to make sure I'm showingup strong.
I can't fall off my white horseLike that was probably the
(28:19):
biggest thing.
Is is, for instance, if I'mlooking at the, the family,
personal relations, where I wasfeeling helpless.
It was because maybe my partnerwanted one thing from me and my
family member wanted somethingelse, and even just something
simple like attention or timetogether, for something to feel
like I can't actually make achoice where somebody's not
going to get hurt or somebody'snot going to feel like I've not
(28:40):
shown up.
That makes me helpless.
And so that's where, for me, itreally is feeling like there's
no choice, that I can't ask forhelp or make a request as to
what I want.
That's actually probably theother big piece is knowing that
it's okay to ask for what anindividual wants instead of just
trying to please those outsideof them.
Speaker 1 (29:01):
And this is bringing this full circle back to having
your own business asking forhelp, this full circle back to
having your own business askingfor help, recognizing that you
are in a place, in a space whereit's not even asking for help
delegate, where you just need todelegate something to someone
because you've reached yourlimitation in your capacity.
But there's such a sense of Ihave to do it all on my own, I
(29:25):
have to carry the burden all onmy own when you are in business,
that it's almost unfathomableto even think of asking for help
, because asking for help meansthat you are now either weak,
you don't know what to do, orpeople will think that you're
being unresourced and anotherone on there.
Speaker 2 (29:41):
It means that at the end, when you reach the, the
goal, you can't claim it as yourown.
And if people are moving intotrying to succeed because
they're trying to provesomething, it never works and
that's why we have to come backand drop the proving.
And is it because you want todo this?
Is there something in you thatwants to give this as a service
or a business?
Speaker 1 (30:03):
you know, and that you just nailed it there again
when you said when it's inservice, because then everything
is not always necessarily aboutyou or how great you look.
But this is now something that'sin service of a greater good
and it opens up a space forpeople to come in to support
people with that service.
And when you look at anybusiness that any man here has
(30:33):
right now, there is a service ofhumanity or towards humanity,
at least within that business,if you just open yourself up to
that potential that alreadyexists yeah and wow, that was
really powerful what you said.
So what I'm also hearing is thatthere's an element.
There's an element of peopleoften, sometimes trying to find
their self-worth and theirindividuality, yeah, through
(30:55):
what they're doing.
But when we do that, isn't itthat our individuality and our
power is now outside of us,because we have to take an
action in order to feel it,rather than already just have it
?
Speaker 2 (31:09):
yeah, and if our efforts not recognized, all of a
sudden, everything we wereseeking is gone because we
weren't holding the power.
We've given it to the customer,the client, the, you know
results that are being soughtafter.
Speaker 1 (31:21):
Yeah and that can probably spiral or put a person,
you know, those five stepsforward and then 10 steps back,
but then you're back into thatspace of feeling helpless again,
of feeling that I can't ask forhelp.
Or how do I fix this?
In order to fix it, maybe Ineed to ask for expertise and
maybe need to ask for support,and people just don't know how
(31:42):
to do that.
How did you ask for help?
Or how did you learn to ask forhelp?
Because even just going to apsychologist that's asking for
help.
Speaker 2 (31:54):
And on the business level, it was learning how real
businesses work.
There's a difference betweenhaving a job and having a
business.
A job, that's you.
You're exchanging your time,your energy, for a paycheck,
whether that's for an employeror self-employed.
As an entrepreneur, it's you.
You're exchanging your time,your energy for a paycheck,
whether that's for an employeror self-employed.
As an entrepreneur, it's stilla job.
When you're running a business,now, you're creating a service
(32:17):
that's for a community, forothers, for the clients.
It's not really about you, andwhat I found when we're looking
at how do we ask for help inthat is, as I studied more and
more from successful businessowners and things like this, the
thing that struck me the most,the beginning of their journey,
was investment and the fact thatthe majority of really, really
(32:40):
successful businesses did not doit on their own even from the
beginning.
Own even from the beginning, itwas somebody else's influence
finance, uh, knowledge, or evenjust the labor.
Somebody else does it and youyou're coming in with an idea,
yeah, and from that idea thenyou can map out how you would
(33:01):
delegate the duties and theresources that are needed for
that and you come together, andso it was really a big
eye-opener to kind of go okay,so wait, all these like super
successful names that we hearout there, they're not the ones
who succeeded.
It was them and their entireteam, them and their entire
company, right.
Speaker 1 (33:21):
That is very powerful within that already just there
as well, and I love theawareness that you have.
You know you picked up also onthat investment.
You picked up on the pattern ofwhat is it that all these
successful people have in commonand how did you apply that to
your life?
Speaker 2 (33:39):
uh well, I continue to do so um as best I can where
it's that, I love that, so youcontinue to do so.
Speaker 1 (33:45):
It's not a one-off thing.
Speaker 2 (33:47):
No.
Speaker 1 (33:49):
And this is what people often fail to.
Sorry for interrupting, but itwas so important.
The moment you said that I'mlike it's not a one-off thing,
it's continuous practice,because a lot of people think,
oh well, now I did that, sowhat's?
Speaker 2 (33:59):
next yeah.
And it's like the top CEOs thetop executives will have a coach
, somebody who may not have anyidea about their industry, but
(34:20):
can help them become a biggerperformer, because they see the
blind spots that they're notseeing.
And so it's simply that, nomatter where you are on the rung
, it's to know that you can askfor help.
And so, as you're saying, it'snot a one-step thing where, okay
, you know, at the beginning Ineeded help, but now I'm off on
my own.
No, you're going to run out ofsteam eventually.
(34:43):
To be able to ask for helpmeans that you're doing two
things You're asking for helpabove you, from the people that
have succeeded already, havegone down that path, have a
proven track, whatever it is,and then you're also taking time
to help the people beneath you,to bring them up, and those are
going to be your employees,your teammates, the people
(35:04):
you're delegating to.
You want to be shaping theminto leaders of their own,
because then that just pushesyou forward and you're
continuing to learn.
But, yeah, if people are lookingagain, it comes back to this
idea of destination.
They're like I made it to theCEO level.
The company is doing this much.
Okay, I don't need to doanything anymore, I don't need
to learn anymore.
I proved what I wanted to prove.
Well, that only lasts for aslong as it's recognized and then
(35:38):
it's gone.
And if you stop doing, if youstop creating and, through
inspiration, giving into theworld, then you actually get
forgotten and that success andwhatever you tried to prove is
gone.
So it's about continuing togrow.
I guess that's really the wordis.
We get to continue to grow allthe time and have that growth
mindset about things.
Also, that then goes into whenyou have something like what's
happened in the last two yearsas a business, you may have done
really well, to haveaccomplished a lot and gotten to
(35:59):
a certain place, and theneverything changes.
If you're not willing to grow,to learn, to keep moving forward
and to ask for help from thosethat could help you do that,
then your business goes away.
Speaker 1 (36:10):
That is.
I mean, it takes teamwork tomake a dream work, and I
sometimes also say that ifpeople are working with others,
because some people are solo,some people work with teams I've
come to learn that yourbusiness can only be as good as
your relationship with yourselfif you're solo and if you have a
team, your business can only beas good as your relationship
with yourself if you're solo andif you have a team, your
business can only be as good asyour people, and it really takes
(36:33):
also a lot to invest in thesepeople and to look at what is
your relationship dynamics withthem.
And one of the biggestchallenges that I also see with
men in business is thatsometimes we have really great
people that are very sharp, butthey don't align with your
values, and I see that createssometimes conflict in businesses
(36:55):
, and sometimes people havedifferent agendas because they
don't agree with yours.
So now they're creating theirown because they think they're
saving the world, but goingagainst you as their leader.
And I'm sure we've a lot andI've seen that, especially
working with so many differentcultures and countries, and how
have you seen how culturalconflicts can come into a
business as well, because thisis something that you would be
(37:18):
like.
Speaker 2 (37:18):
this is like right up your alley yeah, when this
comes back to the idea of why,while you're growing and
learning from somebody that'sdone the things that you're
seeking to do, you're alsoteaching those beneath you to
become leaders themselves that'sit, because if if you're
helping the person that'sbeneath you, they're not going
to be trying to to, um, takeyour job, essentially take your
(37:39):
position, they're happy for it.
So I have a philosophy of givebefore it can be taken right.
And so, yeah, you essentiallycreate a company culture where
it's about developing leadership, it's about developing people,
rather than trying to keep ahierarchy of okay, I'm the top
dog and you know, you guys arehere to listen to me.
(37:59):
That just creates resentmentand bitterness and then people
overthrow you because they seethat also as sorry.
Speaker 1 (38:06):
It's like as an opposition.
Now, when there's the, what Isee with men is that the moment
there's resistance, it's fight.
There's no such thing.
Let's talk about it where we'llbe, like, well, let's sit down,
how do you feel about it?
And the men is just like brah,you know, and they bark, and so
what I'm curious is, when welook at it from that perspective
(38:27):
, when there is maybe resistance, when we look at it from that
perspective when there is mayberesistance, where there is maybe
a lack of seeing eye to eye,what can people do to address
this in a more calmer way andfor it not to escalate to a
place of having to betrayal orhaving to maybe have an anger
(38:48):
spat or having to raise voicesor threat, because I see a lot
of men who are in leadership.
This is where the power becomesnow abusive, where they would
threaten employees or they wouldget really aggressive or they
will give them ultimatums, andthat's the opposite of inspiring
your people, because now you'reinjecting toxicity into the,
(39:10):
the heart of your company yeah,yeah, and you don't want people
to be following you out of fear.
You want them to follow you outof respect.
Speaker 2 (39:18):
Yeah, yeah, that was a big thing I learned in the
military actually, wow.
Okay, it's an interestingquestion because you again so
much of this stuff is.
You almost want to startproperly, but most of the time
people haven't.
So they get to a certain placeand they're like, well, how do
we fix this mess?
the biggest piece there is thatthe leadership be humble right
(39:39):
because if, if your company hasgotten a culture that that isn't
working, that's not aligned,that there's conflict, that
there's these internal strugglesand things like that, it's
because the leadership itdoesn't mean individually as
whoever you are as a leader, butit simply means that the
leadership structure and how itwas set up wasn't done in a way
(40:01):
that would actually create aunified team towards a vision.
It was more okay, we're workingunder you and you're doing doing
this and you're getting allthat, but we're not getting much
, you know.
And so there's this idea of howdo we create a fair share where
people are being rewarded forthe effort and the inspiration
and motivation that they have,rather than am I putting people
(40:23):
against each other by saying,okay, well, if you do a better
job, I'll give you a promotion,if you don't and you know you
get less you don't get the, thefun job or the project, or this
creates competition.
Competition for creativity canbe great.
Competition for resources no,everybody should really be given
the same resources toaccomplish a task, to, you know,
(40:45):
take care of themselves andthings like that.
So, fair wages, fair profitsharing.
If that's a model thatsomebody's following, things
like this, it's where the team.
All benefits from the companydoing well.
Speaker 1 (40:59):
That's true and it comes back to exactly what you
were saying about when there's,for example, lack of equality,
how that can also triggerfeelings of helplessness,
because you know if, if, iftheir growth is based on a top
leader and there is abuse, ifthere's intimidation, if there's
fear, it creates a feeling ofhopelessness in terms of how am
(41:22):
I going to climb up if there'sfavorism or if yeah, exactly
these things happening as welland I'm sure you see that a lot
in the corporations when you docoaching with them as well.
Speaker 2 (41:33):
Yeah, there's certain levels within.
When you do a cultural audit, acorporate cultural audit of how
the trust level is, and eachlevel will dictate that.
The worst is when there'sabsolutely no trust of
leadership and people are justthere for the paycheck and then
you get kind of siloed thingswhere they're not trusting the
(41:54):
different departments and thenyou might have not trusting the
success that the company willachieve, the goals that they're
saying or the stakeholders.
And the top level of the bestkind of culture is where all
people involved within thevision of a company, which
obviously has to be defined verywell, and that's normally,
that's normally.
The crux is that the visionhasn't been defined, because the
(42:15):
vision often is that the personwho started it was trying to
prove something and so we comeback right, yeah, and.
but if you have a vision that'svery clear and people can buy
into it and be inspired by it,you don't really run into these
issues because you're on thesame team, you're after the same
goal.
Speaker 1 (42:35):
How can someone who is maybe listening right now and
they're going, oh my God,that's me.
That's me Like I don't want toadmit it, but that's me how can
they start to create that clearvision, that clear direction,
even if it's just small littlesteps?
How can they start to createthat clear vision, that clear
direction, even if it's justsmall little steps?
How can they start creatingthat?
Speaker 2 (42:54):
well, I come back to the word of being humble.
Humility, okay, because youhave to admit where you're at if
you want to improve, and itdoesn't mean that there's
anything wrong.
But if, if you're trying to belike, no, I've got this handled
and everything's fine and I'vebeen doing it well and I never
made a mistake, but it's justnot working and it must be
somebody else's fault, no, itwon't work.
Humility is taking ownershipand accountability for what the
(43:19):
results are.
Speaker 1 (43:19):
I want to frame that.
I love that.
That is so true.
It's so true.
And you know, I can even seethat for me.
You know in the past for me howthat would.
If I wish I had, you know, yousitting on my shoulder saying,
well, hey, yvette, let's just,let's just revise this a little
bit, because I think for a lotof people and they might be able
(43:41):
to relate is that we don't wantto feel that it can be our
fault, based on our actions orreactions, that we are where we
are right now.
We're always looking forsomething outside of us to blame
.
I call this the nanny state,where people tend to blame the
government for everything,certain experiences they have,
and validly so, but it's also,to a certain extent, where are
(44:04):
you going to step up to createthe experience that you choose
to have, instead of feeling thatyou're passively just following
all the time?
Yeah, yeah.
I love that.
Is there one word of advicethat you can say for any
business owner right now,whether it's a startup, whether
they're currently busy, butthey're just feeling just a
little bit challenged or stucknow?
But regardless of what thechallenge is because at the end
(44:25):
of the the day, it's the mindsetthat needs to shift yeah, um,
it's going to be a funny word touse but play, play.
Speaker 2 (44:36):
Like when you're too thick in it and and you're too
close to the canvas of themasterpiece that you're trying
to create, you need to step back, relax and and let the
creativity start to flow again,or at least take your mind off
of it for a moment and so play.
You know, I, I, I really lovethe balance between whether it's
(44:56):
play or rest, and productivity,because if you're just on the
go, go, go, go, go, there'snever time for innovation,
there's never time forimprovement, there's never time
for feedback and review, and soyou might be doing something
with so much motivation, so muchenergy and you're just going
down the wrong path right, yeah,I've done, we've all been there
(45:17):
I've done it too.
You want to make sure that you,you play, and especially when
you hit those points and andit's one of the hardest things
to do, because you're like Idon't have time to play like the
business is going under.
You have time because if youdon't, I'll bring it to a
different um perspective hereyeah so if you went to the gym
and you're just, you know, sevendays a week, three hours a day,
(45:40):
you're at the gym, you just goand go and go, you never take a
break, you're not actually goingto see very many results
because your body can't handlethe strain that you're causing
it and also grow at the sametime, and so it needs those
moments of rest, those momentsof play, of relaxation, to
actually then integrate theeffort you did, and then it
starts to build the muscle,builds these other things.
(46:02):
Same thing with your businessif you're on it too much, then
there's never that time tointegrate, to have something
land, land in, to realize, oh,maybe this structure we're doing
here isn't working and weshould do this instead and we
also have internal things goingon.
Speaker 1 (46:16):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (46:16):
We have inner children, right, and that inner
child wants to play.
And imagine if you'reconstantly telling that child,
no, no, after we reach our goal,after we reach our goal, then
we can play.
And eventually the child's likeyou're never taking a break,
you're never playing.
You keep saying that I don'ttrust you anymore, I'm taking
matters into my own hands.
Well, there we go, and thatinner child will sabotage the
(46:40):
things that you're doing.
And so, all of a sudden, thebusiness becomes worse.
You have more of a world, morestress, a document goes missing
because of whatever, andabsent-mindedness, all the stuff
.
It's actually the inner childplaying with you, so give it
what it needs so that thatdoesn't happen that is so true.
Speaker 1 (46:59):
I love that, and it's also about knowing that we can
grow through that place ofcuriosity, because that's what
children do when they play.
They play because they'recurious and that's where we grow
.
So remember to play andremember to stay in that playful
state of curiosity, becausethat's where Steve Jobs had
their breakthroughs, that'swhere scientists have
(47:21):
breakthroughs day after day.
Because they remain curious,they keep asking questions in a
playful way.
They don't get frustrated.
It's almost like you move likea river.
The moment there's a rock, youflow around.
Remain curious, they keepasking questions from a playful
way.
Speaker 2 (47:32):
They don't get frustrated they actually.
Speaker 1 (47:33):
It's almost like you know you move like a river.
The moment there's a rock, youflow around it.
You don't try to go over it orthrough it, you just well, it
goes around, it's okay and it'seffortless, it's flawless when.
Have fun with life again.
Yes, I love that.
Wonderful Rolfo.
Thank you so much for your time, your energy, your wisdom and
everything that you've beensharing here with everyone here
(47:54):
today as well.
It was absolutely invaluable,and even for me as well.
I feel like I'm kind of likesneaking into the main summit
here and learning so much, andI'm really thankful for it
because it was very, veryinsightful and the hard moments
that I absolutely had that I'mgoing to be taking away here as
well.
So I'm telling my husband towatch the summit as well.
It was very good, that's great.
So a very big thank you to youfor being here thank you so much
(48:17):
and guys, thank you also somuch for being here with me and
until next time, be the lightthat you are.
Bye everyone.
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