February 28, 2024 • 52 mins
In this enlightening episode, Alex Mayrin delves into the profound impact of Ayahuasca healing on PTSD, trauma, and childhood wounds, illustrating the path from personal transformation to aiding others. He recounts his own growth through Ayahuasca ceremonies and his evolution into a yoga teacher and spiritual guide. The episode also covers the significance of integrating these experiences for sustained healing and the benefits of weekend retreats for deep inner work. Furthermore, Alex offers insights on incorporating therapy and self-care post-ceremony and shares gentle parenting techniques for a more compassionate approach to life's challenges.
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Episode Transcript
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Alex Mayrin (00:00):
After going through an Ayahuasca ceremony, what's
what's happened to your brain isactually created new neural
plasticity. And so to createchange in your life, and to add
things in or take things away,actually becomes easier. You
know, we're not in the stuckgrooves the way that we were
before.
Kira Yakubov Ploshansky (00:21):
Welcome back to Heal Your Roots Podcast.
On today's episode, we have AlexMiran, plant medicine
practitioner and guide. In thisepisode we explore how Iosco can
help heal and treat PTSD, traumaand childhood wounds. If this is
something you've been sufferingwith, and traditional therapy
has not helped, you'redefinitely going to want to
listen to today's episode.
Please remember to like,subscribe and share. Alex, thank
(00:41):
you so much for being on with ustoday.
Alex Mayrin (00:45):
Thank you for having me.
Kira Yakubov Plosha (00:48):
Absolutely.
So Alex, whatever you feelcomfortable sharing, but can you
tell us a little bit aboutyourself and how you got into
this space?
Alex Mayrin (00:56):
Yeah. So, you know, after, you know, in my early
20s, I was in the militarystruggled with depression, PTSD,
anger issues, you know, typicalkind of veteran issues. And
after years of trying differenttherapy, different therapists, a
(01:21):
group therapy, nothing seemed toquite act like touch, what my
issues were, and it wasn'tgetting to the root of my
issues. So I happen to bewatching a documentary. And in
(01:42):
this documentary, I mentionedayahuasca, I work with Ayahuasca
primarily. And it's somethingpains, my interests. They had
mentioned something along thelines of like veterans, PTSD,
Iowa, Casca. And that's all Itook away from the documentary.
(02:03):
It was shortly thereafter that afriend of mine had mentioned I
Alaska to her brother in law,and he was like, Oh, I know,
we're, you know, you can dothat. And so it was maybe three
weeks or so since I watched thedocumentary, and I found myself,
and then I lost the ceremony. Sothat's how, that's how it all
(02:27):
began, I was searching forsomething that could actually
help. And I was willing to dosomething completely out of the
ordinary. I didn't have anyfriends that had worked with
plant medicine. I really had noidea what I was getting into.
(02:47):
But I was hopeful that it wouldwork.
Kira Yakubov Ploshansky (02:50):
Yeah.
And it's tough, because I knowthat especially with PTSD,
right? It's, it's in yournervous system, it's your body,
you can't really talk your wayout of it. Right, because it's
like these instinctual feelingsand symptoms that you go
through. So I imagine aftertrying all of these things, and
really wanting to feel better,and increase your quality of
life, leaning into plantmedicine is, I guess, like the
(03:11):
next the next thing, and Ireally believe in plant
medicine, too. So it seems likeit really worked for you. So I'm
glad that's the path that youwere able to take. And now
you're here helping all theseother people with it, too.
Alex Mayrin (03:25):
Thank you. Yeah. It really changed my life. That
first weekend, it was like aweekend retreat, ended up
drinking Ayahuasca three timesover the course of a few days.
And the biggest thing thathappened that weekend was I
(03:46):
found hope. So it's not like amagic bullet. You know, it's not
it's not a quick fix. But thatfirst retreat really allowed me
to see myself in a way that Ihadn't in a very long time.
Kira Yakubov Ploshansky (04:09):
It sounds really powerful. Yeah, it
was
Alex Mayrin (04:11):
Yeah. And and just feeling into that now. It still
gets me a little choked up, youknow. It's life changing.
Kira Yakubov Ploshansky (04:25):
I appreciate you sharing that
because I know it's, it'spersonal and it's vulnerable. So
thank you for being open toshare that with me. So how did
what was kind of the journeybetween you doing it for
yourself to find it to find thathealing to then now helping
other people through thisprocess?
Alex Mayrin (04:43):
It was a long journey. Yeah, initially, I I
would just, I would go drinkAyahuasca I started
incorporating yoga andmeditation and breath work
outside of the ceremonies andAnd, you know, my life just
started to shift and change,I've gone out drink Ayahuasca,
(05:06):
then there'd be a period of timewhere I wouldn't, and so on and
so forth. And, and as it justcontinued to unfold, eventually
I started coming to ceremoniesand I would help out, you know,
I'd walk people to bathrooms,you know, change out buckets,
things of that nature. And overtime, like, I started working
(05:32):
with a lot of other veterans.
And eventually, that led me togo into Peru for the first time.
And, you know, I've beendrinking Ayahuasca sometimes I'd
be helping others, so on and soforth. But eventually, I found
my way to Peru. And I did what'scalled a master plant deatta,
(05:53):
which is a form of isolation anda little hot. With no
distractions, nothing to do, youcan, you can journal you can
sing, you can play music if youplay an instrument. But
basically, you're sitting in ahut with nothing to do a very
(06:16):
strict food diet. where thereisn't salts, oils, spices, very
bland food. And then every otherday you drink Ayahuasca, you
leave your your hot, it's calleda Tambo, and you go to a maloca.
And in, there's a ceremony, theAyahuasca ceremony, and you
(06:36):
know, go through the ceremony,the next morning, you go back to
your hut. And on the days whereyou're not drinking Ayahuasca,
you're actually drinking the teaof a different plants. And these
different plants work ondifferent, you know, different
things physically,energetically. And so one day is
I lost that one day as the otherplant. It was through this first
(07:01):
data, that you know, I gone tothe jungle, and I was a
carpenter. Yeah, builderdifferent things. And during the
course of this deatta It wasabsolutely the most terrifying,
(07:22):
difficult thing I've everexperienced in my life. But what
it was, is it was working onhumbling myself. And I was like,
it was so difficult. And, and itwas just humbling, it was the
most humbling experience with mylife is 10 day data. And at the
(07:43):
end of the data, I was going toan Ayahuasca ceremony. And I was
getting these visuals of, ofwhat, what to do when I left,
you know, in the ceremony, Ifelt completely humbled,
completely humbled heart, and Ifelt relief, like I couldn't. I
(08:08):
couldn't surrender my suffering,my suffering was still there. I
could accept my suffering, butit was still there. And so all
that was left was to let ithumble you. And it was after
this humbling experience in thisjourney. I started to get
visuals, like this actual visionof what to do. When I left
(08:33):
through, I saw myself teaching ayoga class, I'm a yoga teacher
at this point. I was like,alright, I'll teach the class.
And then it showed me teachingbreathwork I was like, alright,
teach breathwork. And then, andthen I saw myself actually
serving Iowa. And I was justlike, okay, like, I'll do it.
(08:54):
And, you know, I'll kind of fastforward. Upon returning home, I
reached out to all of my clientsthat I had construction projects
for, let them know that I wasgetting out of the business. And
I started working with anattorney to set up a church, I
(09:19):
figured out how to import theraw materials. And I just, I
just began, I started servingAyahuasca to people that I knew,
you know, small groups, oneperson here, two people there,
and it just started to grow.
(09:41):
Word of mouth spread, ended upmeeting more people and the
group started to just build, youknow, the group sizes. And I'm
coming up on two years of doingthat now, on my own, so it's
been a beautiful journey. I leftGot a lot of details to keep.
(10:03):
But yeah, that's that's thejourney that began with just
needing support, and then comingback and starting to support
people, and then eventuallystepping out fully on my own.
Kira Yakubov Ploshansky (10:20):
That's incredible. That's really proud,
powerful story. And I feel likethat happens a lot with healers,
or therapists, or any kind ofpractitioner that is in service
to help other people is thatwe're kind of looking for
something for ourselves in thebeginning. And we find something
that helps or transforms usalong the way. And then we want
to share that. And it soundslike you started to build a
(10:42):
community, like you met thiscommunity of people who were
doing the same thing. And thennow you built your own, which is
awesome. That's really powerful.
Alex Mayrin (10:51):
That's been an incredible ride. Very honored to
be able to be doing this work.
Kira Yakubov Ploshansky (10:59):
Yeah, it's deep work. It's, it sounds
very deep and transformation ona lot of people, I'm sure are
very vulnerable and raw and openaround you. So it takes a lot of
trust, I'm sure. In you in the,in the ceremony and the process
to you know, allow someone toopen themselves up like that.
Alex Mayrin (11:19):
Yeah, it's, you know, it all begins with a phone
call it also whether somebodyyou know, through word of mouth,
you know, hears about me orTikun, which is a center that I
helped open up with a couple ofpartners and my wife. And it
(11:40):
starts with a phone call. Andyou know, I'm not, I'm not on a
phone call to interview anybody,I really just touch base with
them and to make that firstconnection. And so I would say
usually, when people come toIosco, it's, it's at the point
in their life, where they'rewilling to step outside of what
(12:00):
we view as like traditionalmental health. So there's
something there, you know, soit's picking up the phone and
calling somebody that they'venever met, that can be very
intimidating and vulnerable. Sothat kind of vulnerability piece
begins at that first, that firstconnection. And, yeah, it's
(12:24):
really, really quite special.
Then Then I meet them for thefirst time as they show up for
like a weekend retreat. And, andbeing able to witness this, this
process of the moment, I talkedto them, the moment they show
up, you know, to the firstceremony the than the day after,
and there's yoga and there'sbreath work, and then another
(12:46):
ceremony. And by the time theyleave, it's it's like the lights
are back in their eyes, it'slike this haze, this kind of
gray haze has been cleared, andthey're bright, and their hearts
is full, and they're open andsharing and feeling deeply. And
it's really just a beautiful,beautiful experience, to be able
(13:12):
to witness that process andothers, and to be able to hold a
container for that type ofhealing to occur.
Kira Yakubov Ploshansky (13:25):
That is really beautiful. And so for a
lot of people who have eithernever heard of Ayahuasca or
maybe I've just heard of it, canyou kind of share what it is? So
they have an idea for listenerswe've been talking about, I
think they're kind of getting anidea. It's plant medicine, you
take it, all of this wild stuffhappens. But if you can share a
little bit more detail aboutwhat it is and kind of what a
(13:46):
ceremony looks like,
Alex Mayrin (13:48):
yeah, I can do that. So what it is it's a
psychedelic but it's not likeit's not like acid or mushrooms.
It can have similarities, butit's, it's brewed into a tea.
It's made from two plants, theAyahuasca vine and the leaves of
the chop Runa. Bush and isbrewed into a tea can take
(14:12):
anywhere from 26 to 30 hours tobrew a batch. So as it's dark
colors, it's kind of thick, youknow? It's very earthy flavored.
Anyway, you drink the tea at thebeginning of the ceremony, and,
(14:34):
you know, anywhere from like 30minutes to an hour can go by,
depending on somebody'ssensitivity level. They'll start
to feel sensations in theirbody. They might start to feel
tingling. They might start toget visuals. They might feel
nauseous emotions might you knowthe feeling tone of emotion
(14:57):
might start bubbling up in theirbody already, and, you know, the
ceremony was typically, youknow, around five hours. Now it
could be eight, it could bethree, every but everybody's
body is going to metabolizedifferently. And it also depends
on how many cups you drink, youknow, so if you just take the
(15:20):
first cup at the beginning, andyou're deep in it, and you don't
want any more, it's probablygoing to err on the side of four
hours, you know, if you take asecond cup, you know, partway
through or a third cup,obviously, can be extended. So
you know what happens? It'sdifferent for everybody. But
(15:45):
what typically happens is peoplewill move through emotions,
they'll move through fears,anxieties, they'll start to
process and gain clarity ontheir life. on a physical level,
a lot of people purge. That's avery common one purging in the
(16:08):
form of either vomiting orneeding to use a bathroom. But
the purge can also be crying,sweating, kind of shaking, like
almost vibrating. Yawn. This isjust like its energy leaving the
body. Now, I'm sure a lot of thelisteners have read or heard
(16:33):
about the book, The Body Keepsthe Score, right. And so like,
how does trauma affect the body?
And how is it stored? Well,Iosco can go in and start to
shake that energy up to to allowit to move. So that's the perch.
They may be going through amental process of something,
(16:54):
childhood, or something likethat, and then all sudden, they
might start to feel nauseous.
And so the mental process withthe nausea, it's allowing this
energy of this traumaticchildhood event actually, often
leaves the body as they'reprocessing it mentally. And
(17:18):
feeling it as processing.
Kira Yakubov Ploshansky (17:23):
Wow. So it's like literally dislodging
where it's stuck energeticallyand physically in your nervous
system. And I mean, with trauma,right? Like, everything is
disconnected. And it sounds likethis connects everything, shakes
it up, moves it and thenreleases in whatever way your
body sees that it needs to bereleased. It
Alex Mayrin (17:45):
can be that way.
Yes. It's not always as just,you know. But oftentimes, yes,
it's, it's showing up as a formof a purge or something like
that, for some people, they maynever actually vomit. Lucky
depends on how you view that,but sure. But either way, you'll
(18:07):
go through a mental emotionalprocess of, you know, whatever
is inside of you, whether it bein your subconscious mind, or
trauma that's stored in yourbody. Yeah, there's a, there's a
process that you go through,over the course of this, let's
(18:30):
just say four to six hours. And,you know, during the process,
it's not always painful, youknow, maybe towards the end,
you'll start to feel, you know,these emotions, like gratitude,
and love and compassion foryourself, and gentleness towards
(18:51):
yourself. And, you know, thosethose types of feelings are hard
to feel in our body when there'sso much other stuff happening.
And so, when you've gone throughthis process of like, moving
these things that are no longerneeded, or, or they're just
(19:14):
stored there, that allows you toactually feel more yourself than
before. So as we move throughlife, we're just kind of like
storing things in oursubconscious storing things in
our body. And this process oflike, kind of peeling all these
layers back, you can get back tothe like, the root of like, who
(19:37):
you are, like before the worldtold you who you are.
Kira Yakubov Ploshansky (19:46):
So imagine you walk in one way and
come out a very differentexperience. And I don't know if
it's person because you'resaying this is all of these
layers being placed and otherbeing taken off, but it sounds
like an actual weight lift Getoff of you like mentally,
emotionally, energetically,physically, right? Like, on all
these different layers is justreleased off of you. And I'm
(20:08):
sure there's this feeling oflightness is what it sounds
like,
Alex Mayrin (20:11):
yeah. So a person can be really physically
exhausted at the end of theweekend, or at the end of a
retreat. But there's the overallfeeling of like uplifted pneus,
and lightness and clarity. Now,the thing about it is like,
there's always going to be more,right. So after one weekend, you
(20:35):
might, you might have justscratched the surface, you know,
you may have just found hope,you know, you might have found
hope, or compassion orgratitude. But everyone has
their own journey. So, yes, youfeel incredibly light. But it's
not going it's not the cure. Allright, so then it comes
(20:58):
integration, and comes allowingthe pieces to settle and really
nourishing your nervous system,because it can be a lot, it can
be a lot to move through all ofthat in one weekend. And, and so
to find this place of likesteadiness after, it's really
(21:21):
like finding a new way of being.
And, and that takes time andintegration, you know, finding a
therapist, or a coach or aguide, or somebody that
understands trauma, trauma,sensitive trauma, mindfulness.
But working with somebody thatcan actually help you integrate,
(21:43):
what it was you just wentthrough, to make lasting
changes, because we can gothrough an experience like this,
but then we're going back home,we're going back home to the
same things that were there whenwe left, so you've changed, but
your life didn't changeovernight. And so it's, it's
(22:06):
taking maybe what we've learnedover the weekend, or retreat or
ceremony, whatever it is, andapplying small changes to our
life, you know, maybe adding indifferent practices, maybe if
you didn't have a meditationpractice, maybe trying that. If
you haven't spent time innature, maybe trying that, you
(22:28):
know, so integration can lookdifferent for everybody, you
know, somebody with a type Apersonality, if you give them a
list of things to do, aftertheir treat, you're like,
Alright, now do this, this,this, and this, they're taking
notes, and they're like,Alright, I'm gonna get it, I'm
gonna do you know, and so maybethat's actually the mechanisms
(22:52):
that they went there to work on.
And so if you give them thislist, now, it's like they're
back in this overcomer, likethis, I'm going to overcome
myself, by doing this thing,when really what maybe they
needed to learn was how to begentle with themselves. And so
it's like somebody like thatwith a type A personality.
(23:15):
That's a real go getter, likethat served them probably pretty
well in life, you know, as faras jobs and having their life
put together, but internally,like they're not okay. And so to
actually learn how to then begentle with yourself, is going
to be far more important thanlike, giving them a list of
(23:38):
things to like, go and do, youknow, to make it last. If that
makes sense how I worded that.
Absolutely.
Kira Yakubov Ploshansky (23:47):
Yeah.
So it just depends on everyperson, right? It's it's
customized, it's cater to theindividual makes sense for them.
Alex Mayrin (23:55):
It's different for everyone.
Kira Yakubov Ploshansky (23:58):
Yeah, I have a question. So you
mentioned when you went to Peru,there was this type of ceremony
where you were kind of isolatedand then in the ceremony with a
group over a course of time, andthen I'm hearing you say,
there's weekends, and there'sretreats, can you share or
elaborate a little bit about thedifference of if someone's just
doing it for one, like onesitting right, like the 48 hours
(24:19):
versus a couple of days in arow? Like how would someone make
that decision? Based on that?
Alex Mayrin (24:26):
I like to suggest people doing like a weekend
retreat, you know, because, youknow, in that context in that
container, they can actuallyhave support, you know, they can
maybe try yoga for the firsttime or meditation or breath
work. And so the whole containerlike a Friday to Sunday, you
(24:50):
know, is going to have twoceremonies the first one it can
be especially if you're a firsttimer. You know, you've never
worked with Ayahuasca before.
The first time to kind of belike what, like what's even
happening? You know, you'regetting to, you're kind of just
getting your bearings about it.
Yeah, it could, it could bereally deep, really deep
(25:14):
experience. But then it's like,you've never done anything like
this before. And the nextmorning, you just up and leave,
there isn't a lot of time forthe experience to continue to
unfold. So then, you know, ifthat first ceremony is Friday
night, and you wake up Saturdaymorning, you're chatting with
(25:37):
all of these other people thathave their experiences, and
you're all opening up. And youfeel this deep sense of
connection with people, becauseyou all just went through this.
Yeah, and, you know, you mightopen the day with, like a
mindful yoga mat, or meditationor something like that, followed
(25:59):
by breakfast, and continuedsharing, and maybe a structured
sharing group, where each personactually gets the opportunity to
share as much or as little, youknow, as they feel comfortable
sharing. And so it's like, allof these layers just keep
getting peeled back, and liketapping into the vulnerability
(26:22):
of, of like connection andfeeling like this deep intimacy,
right with other people, and is,it continues to unfold, and all
the layers keep getting peeledback, and then maybe Saturday
afternoon, you do a breath work,which is going to keep peeling
(26:44):
back these layers, and maybesome downtime in the afternoon,
leading up to Saturday eveningceremony. So now you've, you've
just gone through, like 24 hoursof not just an Ayahuasca
ceremony, but deep connectionwith other people, you know,
you've, you've experienced yoga,you've, you've done breath work,
(27:07):
and now you're just like, old,you know, and that you're about
to drink Ayahuasca again. And sothe depth that you'll go is
going to be completely differentthan that first time
Unknown (27:19):
first.
Alex Mayrin (27:20):
So I do believe, for people looking for Iosco, or
looking into it, one ceremony isgonna be better than not, right.
So for some people, they can't,they can't commit to a full
weekend or a full retreat. Andso it's still better to come to
(27:42):
a ceremony, you know, have aconversation the next morning,
you know, give a little bit oftools and practices that they
can take home with themselves.
That's still gonna be betterthan not doing it at all. In my
open. Yeah, other people maychallenge me on that, and that's
fine. So, yes, sometimes we willdo just like a single night
(28:08):
ceremony or a single ceremonyduring the day. And, you know,
at the end of it, you know,people can go, but the multiple
days allows for this containerto stretch, which I think is
really important for people. Welive such busy lives, and you
(28:30):
talk to many people, and youstart to realize that like
everyone's walking around onfields, their nervous systems
are shot, you know, the stressto the max, we got bills, kids
are getting jobs we've got, youknow, so much going on, then we
(28:50):
never actually, like slowed downand see what's happening. We're
just piling it all on. And so ina weekend, it allows you to,
like, shed some of that, youknow, unplugged from your, your
day to day life, and reallyfocus on you. And I think that's
what a lot of people lack in oursociety is spending time on
(29:15):
themselves in the inner workarena. And so the weekend
retreat really allows for peopleto, like really open up and sat
down with their care.
Kira Yakubov Ploshansky (29:39):
So it sounds like stages, right? I
love that. So it's like, thefirst day is like, you don't
even know what the hell's gonnahappen. Right? Like, who knows
what's gonna come up for you?
And then everyone's in this openspace and you're primed. And
you're building off of that andcontinuing kind of optimizing on
this like energy and openness.
And then next night, it's likealright, let's go to the Next
(30:00):
level, like a little bit deeper,and you kind of know what to
expect at least a little bitlike what you might experience
or feel or see. And now you're,you know, you've connected with
some of these people around you.
So there's this little bit layerof feeling more comfortable and
safe. And then you go deeper,right, because I'm sure there's
some resistance at first, withanything, right? Even if we want
to try something to help,there's naturally going to be
(30:22):
resistance in the beginning.
Once you've cracked through thatfirst layer, it's like a little
bit more open, or you're evensaying like surrendering and
being more humble, to this nextstage of clarity or healing.
Sounds awesome.
Alex Mayrin (30:39):
It really, it's incredible. It's really
incredible. I will say thatpeople are typically more
nervous the second night,because they've, they've talked
to it's true, oh, this, we'reactually going somewhere deep
within ourselves. But they, butthey've been doing the work
(31:03):
throughout the day, and you kindof build this, we're all we're
all in this together, you know.
And so even though you may bemore nervous about the
experience itself, you do feelmore comfortable with the people
you're with, you know, you'vebuilt a little bit more trust
with the facilitators. And, andso even though you may be more
(31:25):
nervous about the experience,you ultimately feel more trust
in the process. So it's, youknow, as you're learning these
kind of learning how tosurrender learning the art of
surrender, what does that evenmean? You know, it's like, you
can go, I'm gonna surrender. Andit's like, that right there, you
(31:48):
don't like you don't goaccomplish surrender, like, you
can't foresee. Yeah, so like,really starting to learn what
surrender is. And then it allowsyou to accept some of the things
right, you start to accept it,he starts to become humbled by
life, he starts to feelgratitude for life, you know,
(32:10):
it's all of these stages. Trust,learning to trust yourself,
again, trusting other people,and there's so many layers to
this work, and it's allhappening. Like, in real time
for people. Wow.
Kira Yakubov Ploshansky (32:30):
Sounds very, very intense. I mean, this
is what's kind of what you know,people are signing up for right
is that if all these othertreatment methods haven't
worked, that take a lot of time.
And there's a lot of sufferingalong the way. And there's
incremental, I guess, progress.
This is like, all at once,right? It's whole body, whole
(32:53):
spirit, energy, mind everything.
And you're like really beingengulfed in this. Like, it
sounds terrifying. And also,very freeing and liberating. And
it's like, you know, the humancondition is always like this
contradictory experience. So itmakes sense why it would be like
kind of on both ends of thespectrum. Yeah.
Alex Mayrin (33:16):
It's, you know, I go back to like, my own personal
journey with it. Traditionaltherapy, you know, like, nothing
was actually getting to theroots of what it was, you know,
I thought my life was messed upbecause I was in the military.
Well, it turns out these thesebeliefs that I had about myself
(33:41):
that were stored in mysubconscious, those came into
play when I was a child, themilitary, and my life just made
those things bigger. And so wecan actually start to see
ourselves through who we reallyare, right. So, you know, it was
(34:02):
my experience with traditionaltherapy, you know, throughout my
20s. Like, most of theconversation was just trying to
figure out what the issues were,like, it took all of this like
digging to even like, find outwhat was happening. So you could
address it. Oh, Oska, it's goingto just bring you there. So now
(34:27):
and address it. Now you can feelwhat it is you need to feel you
can process the things that youweren't able to process. And
then when you couple that inwith therapy, you couple that in
with spending more time innature, meditation, prayer,
whatever your practices are. Thehealing and growth occurs at
(34:52):
such a deep level that your lifebegins to change rather
drastically. Ah, quickly. Soyeah.
Kira Yakubov Ploshansky (35:08):
There's like a part of me that really
wants to do it. The other partis like terrified
Alex Mayrin (35:15):
that, yeah, you're seeing yourself and, and that's
scary to people to see yourselfand feel, maybe we live our
lives like in resistance tofeeling pain or suffering, that
we tried to distract ourselvesand tell the suffering can
(35:37):
become so heavy, that maybepeople turn to whatever their
coping mechanism is drugs,alcohol, sex, you name it, like
food work, like all of that.
Eventually, if you get to thepoint where you can't outrun it
anymore, it's there. And now youactually have to feel through
(35:57):
it. And process what, what'scausing it, that doesn't mean
you're going to relive atraumatic event necessarily, but
the feelings of, you know, notbeing safe in your body or, you
know, whatever it is, you'regoing to move through the
(36:20):
feelings. And and it has scaryto people, like, my whole life
trying to this wife died isdealing adequately nom, it's
like. So yeah, let's peel backthe layers, see what's going on,
(36:42):
feel what needs to be felt, andcome back to your heart. You
know, huh.
Kira Yakubov Ploshansky (36:51):
Sounds really powerful. And so I know,
you mentioned a lot aboutintegrating afterwards, right?
Like this event is like, it getsyou right there. You're feeling
it, you're observing, you'rehealing, and then you return
back, right? And like, that'skind of even in therapy, right?
Like when you work on yourself,and you go back to the place
(37:13):
that either conditioned you tobelieve certain things, or
you're doing certain things thatare continuing to harm you. How
do you help people create someof those practices? Or integrate
that a little bit more? If youare the coach that they want to
continue seeing?
Alex Mayrin (37:31):
Integration is such a loaded question, you can ask
many different people, you know,what is integration? And you
know, what are integrationtools, and you'll hear many
different things, you know, andso depending on the individual
they get, it really depends,like, what they move through
(37:51):
what they're working on. But thequestion is, like, how to
support someone, my go to islike, start a daily practice,
whatever that is, whether that'smeditation, or yoga, or walking
(38:12):
in nature, like do somethingevery day, at least try, you
know, if it doesn't work outeveryday, at least try to
implement it a little bitthroughout the week, you know,
after after going through anAyahuasca ceremony, what's
what's happened to your brain isactually created new neural
plasticity. And so to createchange in your life, and to add
(38:37):
things in or take things away,actually becomes easier, you
know, we're not in the stockgrooves the way that we were
before. So it's the perfectopportunity to implement little
things, whether it's, you know,five minutes or 10 minute
meditation, or spending moretime in nature, or, or doing
(38:59):
something that like fills yourcup, you know, whatever that is,
I will go back to it and saythat, like, I believe,
personally, the best thing thatpeople can do is really to learn
how to be gentle withthemselves. Oftentimes, we grew
up and adults weren't gentlewith us, you know, we've all
(39:21):
heard stories, you know,children are to be seen, not
heard, you know, like, all ofthe stories. And, and so, you
know, we're being rushed around,you know, parents have
schedules, you know, and it'slike, a child isn't like, in
time, like adults are rightthere just in play time. And so
(39:44):
when you're rushing them around,it's like, they start to get
anxious, you know, whatever itis. So, parents, I'm a parent
myself, and I've caught myselfnot being gentle with my
children. Like, come on, hurryup. We gotta get going to
school. Right and And so like,when we can learn how to
reparent ourselves, and begentle with ourselves the way
(40:07):
that, you know, we would haveliked our parents to be, like, I
think that's one of the highestforms of love that you can have
is like, Just be gentle withyourself. Know people go, what
does that look like?
Kira Yakubov Ploshansky (40:22):
It's about to ask you if you can
share an example.
Alex Mayrin (40:26):
So this is where, you know, you're kind of
plugging in some of the skillsthat you've learned with
Ayahuasca, surrender,acceptance, you know, maybe if
you're really hurried, andyou're really anxious, like to
stop, and like, take some deepbreaths, like, and feel like,
(40:49):
you're allowed to feel, right.
So oftentimes, as a parent, Ican speak from my own
experience, right? Like, I layon the strict layer for time,
for whatever reason, I'm notgonna go, you know, but it
probably because I wasn'tchatting, being gentle as a
child when it was time to getsomewhere. So yeah, when I'm
getting close to the time, I'msupposed to get somewhere, like,
(41:12):
I started to get a littleanxious. Not so much now, but
like I'm talking about yearsago, like how I'd be anxious.
And I wouldn't even understandthat I was a anxious, you know,
my wife would be like, rushingme, it's like, I'm not it's
like, but your energy is, isbecause you're rushing yourself.
(41:33):
So if you're feeling rushed, howcan you be gentle with yourself,
by allowing yourself to feel theanxiety, but actually slow down,
like, nothing bad is going tohappen, you're still going to be
out the door, you're still goingto get to where you're going,
who cares? You might be a coupleminutes late or right on time,
(41:56):
but being gentle with yourselfand actually start to rewrite
the story. And soften thatanxiety around, oh, my gosh,
it's getting close to the time Ineed to be gone. And so you can
actually start to change thenarrative in in yourself. So
now, as you as you get ready togo somewhere, now you're not
(42:19):
feeling the anxiousness you usedto have, and it's through being
able to slow down, feel waspresent, take some deep breaths,
and relax yourself. Right? Soyou understand the nervous
system that anxiousness is likefight flight freeze? Well, how
can we actually be gentle withourselves was to shift over into
(42:42):
relaxation? How can we do thatthrough our breath, like
softening your body andbreathing
and just connect with that, youknow, may, you know, 30 seconds
(43:04):
like that 30 seconds is going tomake you late. So learning how
to be jet. And that's just oneexample. Learning how to employ
these little micro practices,like that deep breath in, soften
shoulders, soften your body,breathe. That's a little what I
(43:28):
call micro practices. 32ndlittle thing that can help shift
us from fight flight freeze, torelaxation, and rest. And so
that is, as the adult sittinghere. The anxiousness is my
belief, the inner child that'sanxious, like, you know, because
(43:52):
it was rushed. So as the adult,I can, I can sit down with
myself, which includes my innerchild, and I can breathe. So
it's like holding space formyself. Does that make sense? If
I worded that,
Kira Yakubov Ploshansky (44:06):
yeah, yeah, absolutely. And so that's
Alex Mayrin (44:09):
how you can learn how to be gentle with yourself.
Just one piece. There's manytools, many micro practices,
many examples but that's one.
Kira Yakubov Ploshansky (44:22):
As you were saying that it's really
funny. That was like my wholelife was just like being rushed.
And I can feel the anxietythinking about like, I'm
perpetually leaks of like timeblindness and thinking about
like, my dad and my mom rushingaround just the when you said
the energy right? Sometimesyou're not even saying like,
hey, we have to go, but theenergy is so felt like, just
(44:45):
frantic or scattered or justlike feeling like someone's
hovering over you. And justallowing yourself to be like,
nothing bad's gonna happen. Andshifting right. It's interesting
you say these micro practices,because it's not like this one.
huge thing that you have to doevery day, even though you said,
you know, some practices to doeach day. But shifting away from
(45:07):
constantly being stuck in thisfight or flight, or freeze mode,
right, because then that's whenour body starts to tense up. And
that's when things start to getstuck. So it's like constantly
releasing these little bits ofstress throughout the day allows
us to be more open and present.
Alex Mayrin (45:23):
Yeah, I, micro practices are game changes, you
know, like when you when youbecome aware that like, Oh, I'm
doing it again, I'm rushingmyself, I'm rushing my children,
I can scroll down, I canbreathe, I can, you know, employ
this little 30 seconds, or oneminute or two minute, whatever
(45:44):
it is. You know, if if you'restruggling with maybe social
anxiety, you know, when you showup somewhere, you maybe you're
feeling anxious, but how can youactually ground yourself in that
space? Well, you can sit there,you can take some deep breaths,
(46:05):
you can look around, you cantake in, you can tap into your
senses, your sight, smell,taste, touch, you know, you can,
you can tap into all of that,and feel your body sitting in
the chair, and allows you torelax into the space, which can
help with social anxiety. Sothere's, depending on what it is
(46:27):
you're working on, you canemploy these little micro
practices throughout your wholeday. And that's going to shift
you from flight, fight flightfreeze, through relaxation,
dysregulated nervous system toregulating regulating,
Kira Yakubov Ploshansky (46:47):
and then that's a lot of grounding
techniques
Alex Mayrin (46:49):
that creates spaciousness in so after an Iowa
Moscow weekend or ceremony, youknow, you've moved energy you
mentally process you've, you'vefelt emotions that maybe have
been suppressed, anotherspaciousness in you. Right. So,
(47:11):
meaning you feel lighter, youfeel clearer? Well, if you don't
make any changes, all the thingsthat went out are just gonna
come right back in. And sothat's where, well, micro
practices, you can continueregulating your nervous system,
really nourishing your nervoussystem, by giving it the rest
(47:31):
and relaxation it needs. Youknow, the meditation, you know,
meditation is like opening, the,I like to think of our
subconscious mind is kind oflike a junk drawer in your
kitchen. Or like you're movingthrough your whole day, and
you're just opening it up andyou're just throwing stuff in
(47:51):
there. You know, meditation, asyou're sitting down, you're
opening up the junk drawer,taking a little bit of things
out, you're organizing a littlebit, closing it, right. And so
if you can use micro practicesto really nourish your nervous
system, and regulate system, andthen you're doing something for
(48:12):
your subconscious mind throughlike meditation, like, to me,
those are like, the mostpowerful tools that a person can
walk away with. But that may notbe true to everyone. Yeah,
that's what worked for me. Andso obviously, if it works for
(48:33):
me, that's probably what I'mgoing to share with someone
else. Sure.
Kira Yakubov Ploshansky (48:38):
So that makes sense. I really appreciate
this. This has been suchinsightful information and
powerful and you sharing yourstory. Can you share with people
how they can get in touch withyou or with cocoon to work with
you? Or, you know, learn moreabout ceremonies or Ayahuasca?
Alex Mayrin (48:57):
Yeah, so you know, they can visit our website,
which is T cool, healingcenter.org. And then you can I
mean, if I tell people not to,like, try to like Google watch,
like all these, because it can,it can lead a person to maybe
(49:21):
freak themself out. Yeah, butthere, there is good information
out there. You just have to bewilling to read through some
things that might sound sketchy.
People share stories, and you'regonna hear a lot of projection.
So the projection being thisafter my first weekend of
(49:44):
drinking Ayahuasca years ago, Iwas sitting there like, Oh my
God, there is no way my wifecould do this. That'd be way too
intense, right? That'd be waytoo much. Well, Uh, each person
is different. Yes, she's notgoing to get the intensity that
I had, because we live two verydifferent lives. So one thing
(50:07):
that I would suggest to anylisteners right now would be,
understand that their storiesmay sound really, really
intense, and that might make youfriend. Your life is not their
life, you may not need that thismedicine is going to bring you
to your growing edge, it's notgoing to push you beyond your
(50:31):
capacity. And what I mean bylike that, what I mean by that
is, it's not going to be atraumatic event, whereas, you
know, you're actually coming toheal traumatic events or trauma,
or wounds, you know, whatever itis. You're not going to leave
traumatized by Ayahuasca. Butwhen you read these stories, you
(50:57):
might go, Yeah, I can't do that.
Just understand that as theirstory, not yours. But yes, they
can find my healing center,Tikun healing center.org.
Kira Yakubov Ploshansky (51:17):
Yeah, that was such a great tip. I'm
glad you mentioned that thedifferentiation that you're
gonna go there to heal, theexperience will not cause trauma
within itself and might beintense or a lot or scary. But
the point is that it's not goingto traumatize you for so for
listeners, it's okay to bescared, but also know that
(51:39):
everyone's journey andexperience will be different. So
that's good to know. Awesome.
Alex, thank you so much forbeing on today. I really
appreciate your time and yourinsight and knowledge. This has
been an awesome episode. I can'twait for this to air.
Alex Mayrin (51:54):
Thank you for having me. It's been fun.
Kira Yakubov Ploshansky (51:59):
So if you've enjoyed this episode,
please like, share andsubscribe, so we can send the
message out there. Thank you somuch. Thank you. Yay. That was
awesome. I'm like, All right. Ithink I might do it one day.
After going through an Ayahuasca ceremony, what's
what's happened to your brain isactually created new neural
plasticity. And so to createchange in your life, and to add
things in or take things away,actually becomes easier. You
know, we're not in the stuckgrooves the way that we were
before.
Kira Yakubov Ploshansky (00:21):
Welcome back to Heal Your Roots Podcast.
On today's episode, we have AlexMiran, plant medicine
practitioner and guide. In thisepisode we explore how Iosco can
help heal and treat PTSD, traumaand childhood wounds. If this is
something you've been sufferingwith, and traditional therapy
has not helped, you'redefinitely going to want to
listen to today's episode.
Please remember to like,subscribe and share. Alex, thank
(00:41):
you so much for being on with ustoday.
Alex Mayrin (00:45):
Thank you for having me.
Kira Yakubov Plosha (00:48):
Absolutely.
So Alex, whatever you feelcomfortable sharing, but can you
tell us a little bit aboutyourself and how you got into
this space?
Alex Mayrin (00:56):
Yeah. So, you know, after, you know, in my early
20s, I was in the militarystruggled with depression, PTSD,
anger issues, you know, typicalkind of veteran issues. And
after years of trying differenttherapy, different therapists, a
(01:21):
group therapy, nothing seemed toquite act like touch, what my
issues were, and it wasn'tgetting to the root of my
issues. So I happen to bewatching a documentary. And in
(01:42):
this documentary, I mentionedayahuasca, I work with Ayahuasca
primarily. And it's somethingpains, my interests. They had
mentioned something along thelines of like veterans, PTSD,
Iowa, Casca. And that's all Itook away from the documentary.
(02:03):
It was shortly thereafter that afriend of mine had mentioned I
Alaska to her brother in law,and he was like, Oh, I know,
we're, you know, you can dothat. And so it was maybe three
weeks or so since I watched thedocumentary, and I found myself,
and then I lost the ceremony. Sothat's how, that's how it all
(02:27):
began, I was searching forsomething that could actually
help. And I was willing to dosomething completely out of the
ordinary. I didn't have anyfriends that had worked with
plant medicine. I really had noidea what I was getting into.
(02:47):
But I was hopeful that it wouldwork.
Kira Yakubov Ploshansky (02:50):
Yeah.
And it's tough, because I knowthat especially with PTSD,
right? It's, it's in yournervous system, it's your body,
you can't really talk your wayout of it. Right, because it's
like these instinctual feelingsand symptoms that you go
through. So I imagine aftertrying all of these things, and
really wanting to feel better,and increase your quality of
life, leaning into plantmedicine is, I guess, like the
(03:11):
next the next thing, and Ireally believe in plant
medicine, too. So it seems likeit really worked for you. So I'm
glad that's the path that youwere able to take. And now
you're here helping all theseother people with it, too.
Alex Mayrin (03:25):
Thank you. Yeah. It really changed my life. That
first weekend, it was like aweekend retreat, ended up
drinking Ayahuasca three timesover the course of a few days.
And the biggest thing thathappened that weekend was I
(03:46):
found hope. So it's not like amagic bullet. You know, it's not
it's not a quick fix. But thatfirst retreat really allowed me
to see myself in a way that Ihadn't in a very long time.
Kira Yakubov Ploshansky (04:09):
It sounds really powerful. Yeah, it
was
Alex Mayrin (04:11):
Yeah. And and just feeling into that now. It still
gets me a little choked up, youknow. It's life changing.
Kira Yakubov Ploshansky (04:25):
I appreciate you sharing that
because I know it's, it'spersonal and it's vulnerable. So
thank you for being open toshare that with me. So how did
what was kind of the journeybetween you doing it for
yourself to find it to find thathealing to then now helping
other people through thisprocess?
Alex Mayrin (04:43):
It was a long journey. Yeah, initially, I I
would just, I would go drinkAyahuasca I started
incorporating yoga andmeditation and breath work
outside of the ceremonies andAnd, you know, my life just
started to shift and change,I've gone out drink Ayahuasca,
(05:06):
then there'd be a period of timewhere I wouldn't, and so on and
so forth. And, and as it justcontinued to unfold, eventually
I started coming to ceremoniesand I would help out, you know,
I'd walk people to bathrooms,you know, change out buckets,
things of that nature. And overtime, like, I started working
(05:32):
with a lot of other veterans.
And eventually, that led me togo into Peru for the first time.
And, you know, I've beendrinking Ayahuasca sometimes I'd
be helping others, so on and soforth. But eventually, I found
my way to Peru. And I did what'scalled a master plant deatta,
(05:53):
which is a form of isolation anda little hot. With no
distractions, nothing to do, youcan, you can journal you can
sing, you can play music if youplay an instrument. But
basically, you're sitting in ahut with nothing to do a very
(06:16):
strict food diet. where thereisn't salts, oils, spices, very
bland food. And then every otherday you drink Ayahuasca, you
leave your your hot, it's calleda Tambo, and you go to a maloca.
And in, there's a ceremony, theAyahuasca ceremony, and you
(06:36):
know, go through the ceremony,the next morning, you go back to
your hut. And on the days whereyou're not drinking Ayahuasca,
you're actually drinking the teaof a different plants. And these
different plants work ondifferent, you know, different
things physically,energetically. And so one day is
I lost that one day as the otherplant. It was through this first
(07:01):
data, that you know, I gone tothe jungle, and I was a
carpenter. Yeah, builderdifferent things. And during the
course of this deatta It wasabsolutely the most terrifying,
(07:22):
difficult thing I've everexperienced in my life. But what
it was, is it was working onhumbling myself. And I was like,
it was so difficult. And, and itwas just humbling, it was the
most humbling experience with mylife is 10 day data. And at the
(07:43):
end of the data, I was going toan Ayahuasca ceremony. And I was
getting these visuals of, ofwhat, what to do when I left,
you know, in the ceremony, Ifelt completely humbled,
completely humbled heart, and Ifelt relief, like I couldn't. I
(08:08):
couldn't surrender my suffering,my suffering was still there. I
could accept my suffering, butit was still there. And so all
that was left was to let ithumble you. And it was after
this humbling experience in thisjourney. I started to get
visuals, like this actual visionof what to do. When I left
(08:33):
through, I saw myself teaching ayoga class, I'm a yoga teacher
at this point. I was like,alright, I'll teach the class.
And then it showed me teachingbreathwork I was like, alright,
teach breathwork. And then, andthen I saw myself actually
serving Iowa. And I was justlike, okay, like, I'll do it.
(08:54):
And, you know, I'll kind of fastforward. Upon returning home, I
reached out to all of my clientsthat I had construction projects
for, let them know that I wasgetting out of the business. And
I started working with anattorney to set up a church, I
(09:19):
figured out how to import theraw materials. And I just, I
just began, I started servingAyahuasca to people that I knew,
you know, small groups, oneperson here, two people there,
and it just started to grow.
(09:41):
Word of mouth spread, ended upmeeting more people and the
group started to just build, youknow, the group sizes. And I'm
coming up on two years of doingthat now, on my own, so it's
been a beautiful journey. I leftGot a lot of details to keep.
(10:03):
But yeah, that's that's thejourney that began with just
needing support, and then comingback and starting to support
people, and then eventuallystepping out fully on my own.
Kira Yakubov Ploshansky (10:20):
That's incredible. That's really proud,
powerful story. And I feel likethat happens a lot with healers,
or therapists, or any kind ofpractitioner that is in service
to help other people is thatwe're kind of looking for
something for ourselves in thebeginning. And we find something
that helps or transforms usalong the way. And then we want
to share that. And it soundslike you started to build a
(10:42):
community, like you met thiscommunity of people who were
doing the same thing. And thennow you built your own, which is
awesome. That's really powerful.
Alex Mayrin (10:51):
That's been an incredible ride. Very honored to
be able to be doing this work.
Kira Yakubov Ploshansky (10:59):
Yeah, it's deep work. It's, it sounds
very deep and transformation ona lot of people, I'm sure are
very vulnerable and raw and openaround you. So it takes a lot of
trust, I'm sure. In you in the,in the ceremony and the process
to you know, allow someone toopen themselves up like that.
Alex Mayrin (11:19):
Yeah, it's, you know, it all begins with a phone
call it also whether somebodyyou know, through word of mouth,
you know, hears about me orTikun, which is a center that I
helped open up with a couple ofpartners and my wife. And it
(11:40):
starts with a phone call. Andyou know, I'm not, I'm not on a
phone call to interview anybody,I really just touch base with
them and to make that firstconnection. And so I would say
usually, when people come toIosco, it's, it's at the point
in their life, where they'rewilling to step outside of what
(12:00):
we view as like traditionalmental health. So there's
something there, you know, soit's picking up the phone and
calling somebody that they'venever met, that can be very
intimidating and vulnerable. Sothat kind of vulnerability piece
begins at that first, that firstconnection. And, yeah, it's
(12:24):
really, really quite special.
Then Then I meet them for thefirst time as they show up for
like a weekend retreat. And, andbeing able to witness this, this
process of the moment, I talkedto them, the moment they show
up, you know, to the firstceremony the than the day after,
and there's yoga and there'sbreath work, and then another
(12:46):
ceremony. And by the time theyleave, it's it's like the lights
are back in their eyes, it'slike this haze, this kind of
gray haze has been cleared, andthey're bright, and their hearts
is full, and they're open andsharing and feeling deeply. And
it's really just a beautiful,beautiful experience, to be able
(13:12):
to witness that process andothers, and to be able to hold a
container for that type ofhealing to occur.
Kira Yakubov Ploshansky (13:25):
That is really beautiful. And so for a
lot of people who have eithernever heard of Ayahuasca or
maybe I've just heard of it, canyou kind of share what it is? So
they have an idea for listenerswe've been talking about, I
think they're kind of getting anidea. It's plant medicine, you
take it, all of this wild stuffhappens. But if you can share a
little bit more detail aboutwhat it is and kind of what a
(13:46):
ceremony looks like,
Alex Mayrin (13:48):
yeah, I can do that. So what it is it's a
psychedelic but it's not likeit's not like acid or mushrooms.
It can have similarities, butit's, it's brewed into a tea.
It's made from two plants, theAyahuasca vine and the leaves of
the chop Runa. Bush and isbrewed into a tea can take
(14:12):
anywhere from 26 to 30 hours tobrew a batch. So as it's dark
colors, it's kind of thick, youknow? It's very earthy flavored.
Anyway, you drink the tea at thebeginning of the ceremony, and,
(14:34):
you know, anywhere from like 30minutes to an hour can go by,
depending on somebody'ssensitivity level. They'll start
to feel sensations in theirbody. They might start to feel
tingling. They might start toget visuals. They might feel
nauseous emotions might you knowthe feeling tone of emotion
(14:57):
might start bubbling up in theirbody already, and, you know, the
ceremony was typically, youknow, around five hours. Now it
could be eight, it could bethree, every but everybody's
body is going to metabolizedifferently. And it also depends
on how many cups you drink, youknow, so if you just take the
(15:20):
first cup at the beginning, andyou're deep in it, and you don't
want any more, it's probablygoing to err on the side of four
hours, you know, if you take asecond cup, you know, partway
through or a third cup,obviously, can be extended. So
you know what happens? It'sdifferent for everybody. But
(15:45):
what typically happens is peoplewill move through emotions,
they'll move through fears,anxieties, they'll start to
process and gain clarity ontheir life. on a physical level,
a lot of people purge. That's avery common one purging in the
(16:08):
form of either vomiting orneeding to use a bathroom. But
the purge can also be crying,sweating, kind of shaking, like
almost vibrating. Yawn. This isjust like its energy leaving the
body. Now, I'm sure a lot of thelisteners have read or heard
(16:33):
about the book, The Body Keepsthe Score, right. And so like,
how does trauma affect the body?
And how is it stored? Well,Iosco can go in and start to
shake that energy up to to allowit to move. So that's the perch.
They may be going through amental process of something,
(16:54):
childhood, or something likethat, and then all sudden, they
might start to feel nauseous.
And so the mental process withthe nausea, it's allowing this
energy of this traumaticchildhood event actually, often
leaves the body as they'reprocessing it mentally. And
(17:18):
feeling it as processing.
Kira Yakubov Ploshansky (17:23):
Wow. So it's like literally dislodging
where it's stuck energeticallyand physically in your nervous
system. And I mean, with trauma,right? Like, everything is
disconnected. And it sounds likethis connects everything, shakes
it up, moves it and thenreleases in whatever way your
body sees that it needs to bereleased. It
Alex Mayrin (17:45):
can be that way.
Yes. It's not always as just,you know. But oftentimes, yes,
it's, it's showing up as a formof a purge or something like
that, for some people, they maynever actually vomit. Lucky
depends on how you view that,but sure. But either way, you'll
(18:07):
go through a mental emotionalprocess of, you know, whatever
is inside of you, whether it bein your subconscious mind, or
trauma that's stored in yourbody. Yeah, there's a, there's a
process that you go through,over the course of this, let's
(18:30):
just say four to six hours. And,you know, during the process,
it's not always painful, youknow, maybe towards the end,
you'll start to feel, you know,these emotions, like gratitude,
and love and compassion foryourself, and gentleness towards
(18:51):
yourself. And, you know, thosethose types of feelings are hard
to feel in our body when there'sso much other stuff happening.
And so, when you've gone throughthis process of like, moving
these things that are no longerneeded, or, or they're just
(19:14):
stored there, that allows you toactually feel more yourself than
before. So as we move throughlife, we're just kind of like
storing things in oursubconscious storing things in
our body. And this process oflike, kind of peeling all these
layers back, you can get back tothe like, the root of like, who
(19:37):
you are, like before the worldtold you who you are.
Kira Yakubov Ploshansky (19:46):
So imagine you walk in one way and
come out a very differentexperience. And I don't know if
it's person because you'resaying this is all of these
layers being placed and otherbeing taken off, but it sounds
like an actual weight lift Getoff of you like mentally,
emotionally, energetically,physically, right? Like, on all
these different layers is justreleased off of you. And I'm
(20:08):
sure there's this feeling oflightness is what it sounds
like,
Alex Mayrin (20:11):
yeah. So a person can be really physically
exhausted at the end of theweekend, or at the end of a
retreat. But there's the overallfeeling of like uplifted pneus,
and lightness and clarity. Now,the thing about it is like,
there's always going to be more,right. So after one weekend, you
(20:35):
might, you might have justscratched the surface, you know,
you may have just found hope,you know, you might have found
hope, or compassion orgratitude. But everyone has
their own journey. So, yes, youfeel incredibly light. But it's
not going it's not the cure. Allright, so then it comes
(20:58):
integration, and comes allowingthe pieces to settle and really
nourishing your nervous system,because it can be a lot, it can
be a lot to move through all ofthat in one weekend. And, and so
to find this place of likesteadiness after, it's really
(21:21):
like finding a new way of being.
And, and that takes time andintegration, you know, finding a
therapist, or a coach or aguide, or somebody that
understands trauma, trauma,sensitive trauma, mindfulness.
But working with somebody thatcan actually help you integrate,
(21:43):
what it was you just wentthrough, to make lasting
changes, because we can gothrough an experience like this,
but then we're going back home,we're going back home to the
same things that were there whenwe left, so you've changed, but
your life didn't changeovernight. And so it's, it's
(22:06):
taking maybe what we've learnedover the weekend, or retreat or
ceremony, whatever it is, andapplying small changes to our
life, you know, maybe adding indifferent practices, maybe if
you didn't have a meditationpractice, maybe trying that. If
you haven't spent time innature, maybe trying that, you
(22:28):
know, so integration can lookdifferent for everybody, you
know, somebody with a type Apersonality, if you give them a
list of things to do, aftertheir treat, you're like,
Alright, now do this, this,this, and this, they're taking
notes, and they're like,Alright, I'm gonna get it, I'm
gonna do you know, and so maybethat's actually the mechanisms
(22:52):
that they went there to work on.
And so if you give them thislist, now, it's like they're
back in this overcomer, likethis, I'm going to overcome
myself, by doing this thing,when really what maybe they
needed to learn was how to begentle with themselves. And so
it's like somebody like thatwith a type A personality.
(23:15):
That's a real go getter, likethat served them probably pretty
well in life, you know, as faras jobs and having their life
put together, but internally,like they're not okay. And so to
actually learn how to then begentle with yourself, is going
to be far more important thanlike, giving them a list of
(23:38):
things to like, go and do, youknow, to make it last. If that
makes sense how I worded that.
Absolutely.
Kira Yakubov Ploshansky (23:47):
Yeah.
So it just depends on everyperson, right? It's it's
customized, it's cater to theindividual makes sense for them.
Alex Mayrin (23:55):
It's different for everyone.
Kira Yakubov Ploshansky (23:58):
Yeah, I have a question. So you
mentioned when you went to Peru,there was this type of ceremony
where you were kind of isolatedand then in the ceremony with a
group over a course of time, andthen I'm hearing you say,
there's weekends, and there'sretreats, can you share or
elaborate a little bit about thedifference of if someone's just
doing it for one, like onesitting right, like the 48 hours
(24:19):
versus a couple of days in arow? Like how would someone make
that decision? Based on that?
Alex Mayrin (24:26):
I like to suggest people doing like a weekend
retreat, you know, because, youknow, in that context in that
container, they can actuallyhave support, you know, they can
maybe try yoga for the firsttime or meditation or breath
work. And so the whole containerlike a Friday to Sunday, you
(24:50):
know, is going to have twoceremonies the first one it can
be especially if you're a firsttimer. You know, you've never
worked with Ayahuasca before.
The first time to kind of belike what, like what's even
happening? You know, you'regetting to, you're kind of just
getting your bearings about it.
Yeah, it could, it could bereally deep, really deep
(25:14):
experience. But then it's like,you've never done anything like
this before. And the nextmorning, you just up and leave,
there isn't a lot of time forthe experience to continue to
unfold. So then, you know, ifthat first ceremony is Friday
night, and you wake up Saturdaymorning, you're chatting with
(25:37):
all of these other people thathave their experiences, and
you're all opening up. And youfeel this deep sense of
connection with people, becauseyou all just went through this.
Yeah, and, you know, you mightopen the day with, like a
mindful yoga mat, or meditationor something like that, followed
(25:59):
by breakfast, and continuedsharing, and maybe a structured
sharing group, where each personactually gets the opportunity to
share as much or as little, youknow, as they feel comfortable
sharing. And so it's like, allof these layers just keep
getting peeled back, and liketapping into the vulnerability
(26:22):
of, of like connection andfeeling like this deep intimacy,
right with other people, and is,it continues to unfold, and all
the layers keep getting peeledback, and then maybe Saturday
afternoon, you do a breath work,which is going to keep peeling
(26:44):
back these layers, and maybesome downtime in the afternoon,
leading up to Saturday eveningceremony. So now you've, you've
just gone through, like 24 hoursof not just an Ayahuasca
ceremony, but deep connectionwith other people, you know,
you've, you've experienced yoga,you've, you've done breath work,
(27:07):
and now you're just like, old,you know, and that you're about
to drink Ayahuasca again. And sothe depth that you'll go is
going to be completely differentthan that first time
Unknown (27:19):
first.
Alex Mayrin (27:20):
So I do believe, for people looking for Iosco, or
looking into it, one ceremony isgonna be better than not, right.
So for some people, they can't,they can't commit to a full
weekend or a full retreat. Andso it's still better to come to
(27:42):
a ceremony, you know, have aconversation the next morning,
you know, give a little bit oftools and practices that they
can take home with themselves.
That's still gonna be betterthan not doing it at all. In my
open. Yeah, other people maychallenge me on that, and that's
fine. So, yes, sometimes we willdo just like a single night
(28:08):
ceremony or a single ceremonyduring the day. And, you know,
at the end of it, you know,people can go, but the multiple
days allows for this containerto stretch, which I think is
really important for people. Welive such busy lives, and you
(28:30):
talk to many people, and youstart to realize that like
everyone's walking around onfields, their nervous systems
are shot, you know, the stressto the max, we got bills, kids
are getting jobs we've got, youknow, so much going on, then we
(28:50):
never actually, like slowed downand see what's happening. We're
just piling it all on. And so ina weekend, it allows you to,
like, shed some of that, youknow, unplugged from your, your
day to day life, and reallyfocus on you. And I think that's
what a lot of people lack in oursociety is spending time on
(29:15):
themselves in the inner workarena. And so the weekend
retreat really allows for peopleto, like really open up and sat
down with their care.
Kira Yakubov Ploshansky (29:39):
So it sounds like stages, right? I
love that. So it's like, thefirst day is like, you don't
even know what the hell's gonnahappen. Right? Like, who knows
what's gonna come up for you?
And then everyone's in this openspace and you're primed. And
you're building off of that andcontinuing kind of optimizing on
this like energy and openness.
And then next night, it's likealright, let's go to the Next
(30:00):
level, like a little bit deeper,and you kind of know what to
expect at least a little bitlike what you might experience
or feel or see. And now you're,you know, you've connected with
some of these people around you.
So there's this little bit layerof feeling more comfortable and
safe. And then you go deeper,right, because I'm sure there's
some resistance at first, withanything, right? Even if we want
to try something to help,there's naturally going to be
(30:22):
resistance in the beginning.
Once you've cracked through thatfirst layer, it's like a little
bit more open, or you're evensaying like surrendering and
being more humble, to this nextstage of clarity or healing.
Sounds awesome.
Alex Mayrin (30:39):
It really, it's incredible. It's really
incredible. I will say thatpeople are typically more
nervous the second night,because they've, they've talked
to it's true, oh, this, we'reactually going somewhere deep
within ourselves. But they, butthey've been doing the work
(31:03):
throughout the day, and you kindof build this, we're all we're
all in this together, you know.
And so even though you may bemore nervous about the
experience itself, you do feelmore comfortable with the people
you're with, you know, you'vebuilt a little bit more trust
with the facilitators. And, andso even though you may be more
(31:25):
nervous about the experience,you ultimately feel more trust
in the process. So it's, youknow, as you're learning these
kind of learning how tosurrender learning the art of
surrender, what does that evenmean? You know, it's like, you
can go, I'm gonna surrender. Andit's like, that right there, you
(31:48):
don't like you don't goaccomplish surrender, like, you
can't foresee. Yeah, so like,really starting to learn what
surrender is. And then it allowsyou to accept some of the things
right, you start to accept it,he starts to become humbled by
life, he starts to feelgratitude for life, you know,
(32:10):
it's all of these stages. Trust,learning to trust yourself,
again, trusting other people,and there's so many layers to
this work, and it's allhappening. Like, in real time
for people. Wow.
Kira Yakubov Ploshansky (32:30):
Sounds very, very intense. I mean, this
is what's kind of what you know,people are signing up for right
is that if all these othertreatment methods haven't
worked, that take a lot of time.
And there's a lot of sufferingalong the way. And there's
incremental, I guess, progress.
This is like, all at once,right? It's whole body, whole
(32:53):
spirit, energy, mind everything.
And you're like really beingengulfed in this. Like, it
sounds terrifying. And also,very freeing and liberating. And
it's like, you know, the humancondition is always like this
contradictory experience. So itmakes sense why it would be like
kind of on both ends of thespectrum. Yeah.
Alex Mayrin (33:16):
It's, you know, I go back to like, my own personal
journey with it. Traditionaltherapy, you know, like, nothing
was actually getting to theroots of what it was, you know,
I thought my life was messed upbecause I was in the military.
Well, it turns out these thesebeliefs that I had about myself
(33:41):
that were stored in mysubconscious, those came into
play when I was a child, themilitary, and my life just made
those things bigger. And so wecan actually start to see
ourselves through who we reallyare, right. So, you know, it was
(34:02):
my experience with traditionaltherapy, you know, throughout my
20s. Like, most of theconversation was just trying to
figure out what the issues were,like, it took all of this like
digging to even like, find outwhat was happening. So you could
address it. Oh, Oska, it's goingto just bring you there. So now
(34:27):
and address it. Now you can feelwhat it is you need to feel you
can process the things that youweren't able to process. And
then when you couple that inwith therapy, you couple that in
with spending more time innature, meditation, prayer,
whatever your practices are. Thehealing and growth occurs at
(34:52):
such a deep level that your lifebegins to change rather
drastically. Ah, quickly. Soyeah.
Kira Yakubov Ploshansky (35:08):
There's like a part of me that really
wants to do it. The other partis like terrified
Alex Mayrin (35:15):
that, yeah, you're seeing yourself and, and that's
scary to people to see yourselfand feel, maybe we live our
lives like in resistance tofeeling pain or suffering, that
we tried to distract ourselvesand tell the suffering can
(35:37):
become so heavy, that maybepeople turn to whatever their
coping mechanism is drugs,alcohol, sex, you name it, like
food work, like all of that.
Eventually, if you get to thepoint where you can't outrun it
anymore, it's there. And now youactually have to feel through
(35:57):
it. And process what, what'scausing it, that doesn't mean
you're going to relive atraumatic event necessarily, but
the feelings of, you know, notbeing safe in your body or, you
know, whatever it is, you'regoing to move through the
(36:20):
feelings. And and it has scaryto people, like, my whole life
trying to this wife died isdealing adequately nom, it's
like. So yeah, let's peel backthe layers, see what's going on,
(36:42):
feel what needs to be felt, andcome back to your heart. You
know, huh.
Kira Yakubov Ploshansky (36:51):
Sounds really powerful. And so I know,
you mentioned a lot aboutintegrating afterwards, right?
Like this event is like, it getsyou right there. You're feeling
it, you're observing, you'rehealing, and then you return
back, right? And like, that'skind of even in therapy, right?
Like when you work on yourself,and you go back to the place
(37:13):
that either conditioned you tobelieve certain things, or
you're doing certain things thatare continuing to harm you. How
do you help people create someof those practices? Or integrate
that a little bit more? If youare the coach that they want to
continue seeing?
Alex Mayrin (37:31):
Integration is such a loaded question, you can ask
many different people, you know,what is integration? And you
know, what are integrationtools, and you'll hear many
different things, you know, andso depending on the individual
they get, it really depends,like, what they move through
(37:51):
what they're working on. But thequestion is, like, how to
support someone, my go to islike, start a daily practice,
whatever that is, whether that'smeditation, or yoga, or walking
(38:12):
in nature, like do somethingevery day, at least try, you
know, if it doesn't work outeveryday, at least try to
implement it a little bitthroughout the week, you know,
after after going through anAyahuasca ceremony, what's
what's happened to your brain isactually created new neural
plasticity. And so to createchange in your life, and to add
(38:37):
things in or take things away,actually becomes easier, you
know, we're not in the stockgrooves the way that we were
before. So it's the perfectopportunity to implement little
things, whether it's, you know,five minutes or 10 minute
meditation, or spending moretime in nature, or, or doing
(38:59):
something that like fills yourcup, you know, whatever that is,
I will go back to it and saythat, like, I believe,
personally, the best thing thatpeople can do is really to learn
how to be gentle withthemselves. Oftentimes, we grew
up and adults weren't gentlewith us, you know, we've all
(39:21):
heard stories, you know,children are to be seen, not
heard, you know, like, all ofthe stories. And, and so, you
know, we're being rushed around,you know, parents have
schedules, you know, and it'slike, a child isn't like, in
time, like adults are rightthere just in play time. And so
(39:44):
when you're rushing them around,it's like, they start to get
anxious, you know, whatever itis. So, parents, I'm a parent
myself, and I've caught myselfnot being gentle with my
children. Like, come on, hurryup. We gotta get going to
school. Right and And so like,when we can learn how to
reparent ourselves, and begentle with ourselves the way
(40:07):
that, you know, we would haveliked our parents to be, like, I
think that's one of the highestforms of love that you can have
is like, Just be gentle withyourself. Know people go, what
does that look like?
Kira Yakubov Ploshansky (40:22):
It's about to ask you if you can
share an example.
Alex Mayrin (40:26):
So this is where, you know, you're kind of
plugging in some of the skillsthat you've learned with
Ayahuasca, surrender,acceptance, you know, maybe if
you're really hurried, andyou're really anxious, like to
stop, and like, take some deepbreaths, like, and feel like,
(40:49):
you're allowed to feel, right.
So oftentimes, as a parent, Ican speak from my own
experience, right? Like, I layon the strict layer for time,
for whatever reason, I'm notgonna go, you know, but it
probably because I wasn'tchatting, being gentle as a
child when it was time to getsomewhere. So yeah, when I'm
getting close to the time, I'msupposed to get somewhere, like,
(41:12):
I started to get a littleanxious. Not so much now, but
like I'm talking about yearsago, like how I'd be anxious.
And I wouldn't even understandthat I was a anxious, you know,
my wife would be like, rushingme, it's like, I'm not it's
like, but your energy is, isbecause you're rushing yourself.
(41:33):
So if you're feeling rushed, howcan you be gentle with yourself,
by allowing yourself to feel theanxiety, but actually slow down,
like, nothing bad is going tohappen, you're still going to be
out the door, you're still goingto get to where you're going,
who cares? You might be a coupleminutes late or right on time,
(41:56):
but being gentle with yourselfand actually start to rewrite
the story. And soften thatanxiety around, oh, my gosh,
it's getting close to the time Ineed to be gone. And so you can
actually start to change thenarrative in in yourself. So
now, as you as you get ready togo somewhere, now you're not
(42:19):
feeling the anxiousness you usedto have, and it's through being
able to slow down, feel waspresent, take some deep breaths,
and relax yourself. Right? Soyou understand the nervous
system that anxiousness is likefight flight freeze? Well, how
can we actually be gentle withourselves was to shift over into
(42:42):
relaxation? How can we do thatthrough our breath, like
softening your body andbreathing
and just connect with that, youknow, may, you know, 30 seconds
(43:04):
like that 30 seconds is going tomake you late. So learning how
to be jet. And that's just oneexample. Learning how to employ
these little micro practices,like that deep breath in, soften
shoulders, soften your body,breathe. That's a little what I
(43:28):
call micro practices. 32ndlittle thing that can help shift
us from fight flight freeze, torelaxation, and rest. And so
that is, as the adult sittinghere. The anxiousness is my
belief, the inner child that'sanxious, like, you know, because
(43:52):
it was rushed. So as the adult,I can, I can sit down with
myself, which includes my innerchild, and I can breathe. So
it's like holding space formyself. Does that make sense? If
I worded that,
Kira Yakubov Ploshansky (44:06):
yeah, yeah, absolutely. And so that's
Alex Mayrin (44:09):
how you can learn how to be gentle with yourself.
Just one piece. There's manytools, many micro practices,
many examples but that's one.
Kira Yakubov Ploshansky (44:22):
As you were saying that it's really
funny. That was like my wholelife was just like being rushed.
And I can feel the anxietythinking about like, I'm
perpetually leaks of like timeblindness and thinking about
like, my dad and my mom rushingaround just the when you said
the energy right? Sometimesyou're not even saying like,
hey, we have to go, but theenergy is so felt like, just
(44:45):
frantic or scattered or justlike feeling like someone's
hovering over you. And justallowing yourself to be like,
nothing bad's gonna happen. Andshifting right. It's interesting
you say these micro practices,because it's not like this one.
huge thing that you have to doevery day, even though you said,
you know, some practices to doeach day. But shifting away from
(45:07):
constantly being stuck in thisfight or flight, or freeze mode,
right, because then that's whenour body starts to tense up. And
that's when things start to getstuck. So it's like constantly
releasing these little bits ofstress throughout the day allows
us to be more open and present.
Alex Mayrin (45:23):
Yeah, I, micro practices are game changes, you
know, like when you when youbecome aware that like, Oh, I'm
doing it again, I'm rushingmyself, I'm rushing my children,
I can scroll down, I canbreathe, I can, you know, employ
this little 30 seconds, or oneminute or two minute, whatever
(45:44):
it is. You know, if if you'restruggling with maybe social
anxiety, you know, when you showup somewhere, you maybe you're
feeling anxious, but how can youactually ground yourself in that
space? Well, you can sit there,you can take some deep breaths,
(46:05):
you can look around, you cantake in, you can tap into your
senses, your sight, smell,taste, touch, you know, you can,
you can tap into all of that,and feel your body sitting in
the chair, and allows you torelax into the space, which can
help with social anxiety. Sothere's, depending on what it is
(46:27):
you're working on, you canemploy these little micro
practices throughout your wholeday. And that's going to shift
you from flight, fight flightfreeze, through relaxation,
dysregulated nervous system toregulating regulating,
Kira Yakubov Ploshansky (46:47):
and then that's a lot of grounding
techniques
Alex Mayrin (46:49):
that creates spaciousness in so after an Iowa
Moscow weekend or ceremony, youknow, you've moved energy you
mentally process you've, you'vefelt emotions that maybe have
been suppressed, anotherspaciousness in you. Right. So,
(47:11):
meaning you feel lighter, youfeel clearer? Well, if you don't
make any changes, all the thingsthat went out are just gonna
come right back in. And sothat's where, well, micro
practices, you can continueregulating your nervous system,
really nourishing your nervoussystem, by giving it the rest
(47:31):
and relaxation it needs. Youknow, the meditation, you know,
meditation is like opening, the,I like to think of our
subconscious mind is kind oflike a junk drawer in your
kitchen. Or like you're movingthrough your whole day, and
you're just opening it up andyou're just throwing stuff in
(47:51):
there. You know, meditation, asyou're sitting down, you're
opening up the junk drawer,taking a little bit of things
out, you're organizing a littlebit, closing it, right. And so
if you can use micro practicesto really nourish your nervous
system, and regulate system, andthen you're doing something for
(48:12):
your subconscious mind throughlike meditation, like, to me,
those are like, the mostpowerful tools that a person can
walk away with. But that may notbe true to everyone. Yeah,
that's what worked for me. Andso obviously, if it works for
(48:33):
me, that's probably what I'mgoing to share with someone
else. Sure.
Kira Yakubov Ploshansky (48:38):
So that makes sense. I really appreciate
this. This has been suchinsightful information and
powerful and you sharing yourstory. Can you share with people
how they can get in touch withyou or with cocoon to work with
you? Or, you know, learn moreabout ceremonies or Ayahuasca?
Alex Mayrin (48:57):
Yeah, so you know, they can visit our website,
which is T cool, healingcenter.org. And then you can I
mean, if I tell people not to,like, try to like Google watch,
like all these, because it can,it can lead a person to maybe
(49:21):
freak themself out. Yeah, butthere, there is good information
out there. You just have to bewilling to read through some
things that might sound sketchy.
People share stories, and you'regonna hear a lot of projection.
So the projection being thisafter my first weekend of
(49:44):
drinking Ayahuasca years ago, Iwas sitting there like, Oh my
God, there is no way my wifecould do this. That'd be way too
intense, right? That'd be waytoo much. Well, Uh, each person
is different. Yes, she's notgoing to get the intensity that
I had, because we live two verydifferent lives. So one thing
(50:07):
that I would suggest to anylisteners right now would be,
understand that their storiesmay sound really, really
intense, and that might make youfriend. Your life is not their
life, you may not need that thismedicine is going to bring you
to your growing edge, it's notgoing to push you beyond your
(50:31):
capacity. And what I mean bylike that, what I mean by that
is, it's not going to be atraumatic event, whereas, you
know, you're actually coming toheal traumatic events or trauma,
or wounds, you know, whatever itis. You're not going to leave
traumatized by Ayahuasca. Butwhen you read these stories, you
(50:57):
might go, Yeah, I can't do that.
Just understand that as theirstory, not yours. But yes, they
can find my healing center,Tikun healing center.org.
Kira Yakubov Ploshansky (51:17):
Yeah, that was such a great tip. I'm
glad you mentioned that thedifferentiation that you're
gonna go there to heal, theexperience will not cause trauma
within itself and might beintense or a lot or scary. But
the point is that it's not goingto traumatize you for so for
listeners, it's okay to bescared, but also know that
(51:39):
everyone's journey andexperience will be different. So
that's good to know. Awesome.
Alex, thank you so much forbeing on today. I really
appreciate your time and yourinsight and knowledge. This has
been an awesome episode. I can'twait for this to air.
Alex Mayrin (51:54):
Thank you for having me. It's been fun.
Kira Yakubov Ploshansky (51:59):
So if you've enjoyed this episode,
please like, share andsubscribe, so we can send the
message out there. Thank you somuch. Thank you. Yay. That was
awesome. I'm like, All right. Ithink I might do it one day.
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