January 31, 2024 • 38 mins
This episode delves into the transformative power of mind-body approaches in therapy, emphasizing the significant role of meditation, mindfulness, and body awareness in healing and emotional management.
Starting with a focus on how couples can navigate grief together, returning guest, Lindsay Bauer, LMFT shares her expertise in integrating breath work, meditation, and mindfulness into therapy sessions. She explains the differences between meditation and mindfulness, particularly highlighting the benefits of practices like the "So Hum" meditation, body scans, and yoga nidra in releasing physical tension related to stress and emotions.
As the conversation progresses, Lindsay and host Kira Yakubov Ploshansky explore the impact of mindfulness and self-awareness in achieving inner peace and managing emotions. They touch on grounding techniques for improving decision-making and discuss the importance of embodied experiences in therapy.
A significant portion of the episode is dedicated to understanding grief and loss within couples therapy. Lindsay highlights the complexities of supporting a partner through grief, emphasizing the need for communication, validation, and acknowledging different healing styles.
🎧🎙️Tune in to understand the therapeutic potential of mindfulness practices and how they can be used to promote better self-awareness and emotion regulation. 🧘♀️🧘♂️
Check out the episode on our website at https://bit.ly/hyrp-holistic-healing
Check out the rest of the Heal Your Roots Podcast episodes at our website.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Kira Yakubov Ploshansky (00:00):
Welcome back to Heal Your Roots Podcast.
In today's episode, we haveLindsay Bower, sharing how she
uses the mind body connection inher therapy work, and
particularly how she helpscouples move through grief
together, you're going to wantto listen into today's episode.
Lindsay, thank you so much.
Welcome back for a secondepisode with you and really
excited to have you back ontoday.
Lindsay Bauer (00:22):
Thank you for having me, Kara.
Kira Yakubov Plosha (00:24):
Absolutely.
So I know in our first episode,you talked a little bit more
about your background, what madeyou want to become a therapist.
So just for today's episode, ifyou can kind of share a little
bit about what you do, where youwork at just so the listeners if
they didn't hear the firstepisode, get an idea of who you
are.
Lindsay Bauer (00:43):
I'm Lindsay Bauer, I am the owner of yoga
ology. It's a private practice,centered in Philadelphia, but I
do service Pennsylvania and NewJersey as I'm licensed in both.
I'm a marriage family therapist,and I specialize in infertility,
grief, trauma and anxiety. So Iprovide individual therapy and
(01:08):
couples therapy. And my practiceyoga, ology specializes in mind
body, that's kind of like ourniche. So within any kind of
situation or issue that youmight be bringing into therapy,
we're going to approach it witha mind body approach. There's a
(01:28):
holistic health in it at yogaallergy. And so that's something
that I pride myself on, and Imake sure that everybody knows
you're not leaving a therapysession without having some kind
of mind body approach to it. Sothat breathwork, meditation,
mindfulness, etc.
Kira Yakubov Ploshansky (01:46):
Because he does a lot of things, and I
know you do, like meditationclasses, or meditation coaching
as well. Yes,
Lindsay Bauer (01:54):
thank you. So that's actually like a big part
of the mind body work. So a lotof times people are, are like,
Well, how do you incorporateyoga or meditation or breath
work into sessions. And the yogapiece is a little tricky,
because those kind of have to bescheduled separately. But with
(02:17):
meditation, you know, someone'stalking about stress or anxiety
that they're having. A lot oftimes, I'll just say, you know,
let's, let's kind of go into ameditation right now. Whether
it's a guided meditation,whether it's a body scan,
whether it's more like amindfulness exercise, but yes, I
(02:42):
help people. And sometimespeople come just because they
want to work on their meditationpractice, and, and incorporate a
little bit more of that intotheir daily lives. So I think
people find they say, they finda hard time, finding the time
(03:02):
and how to implement it intotheir schedules. So if they
already have a therapy session,in their routine, then they just
add the meditation into it, andit works nicely for them. So
it's a nice little trick.
Kira Yakubov Ploshansky (03:17):
That's awesome. And so for people who
may not know the differencebetween let's say, like, a
guided meditation, a body scanmindfulness, could you share a
little bit about the differencesand like, what that might look
like? And how you kind ofpresent that in sessions with
clients too?
Lindsay Bauer (03:34):
Yeah, yeah.
Meditation, it is kind oftricky. Meditation is, has like
the focusing on your it's almostlike bringing awareness in to
it. So you're, you're focusingon one thing, so it could be a
mantra, which is a prayer or aan intention or an affirmation.
(03:58):
So for example, a common one isso hum or translated to I m. And
that would be kind of like yousay, so hum over and over and
over. So every time an intrusivethought comes in or every time a
a task that you need to get donefor the day pops in, you just
(04:19):
keep following so hums so hum.
And that is opening yourself toI am I am I am and I use this
with clients who tend to feelunworthy, or they have any kind
of identity issues this way. IfI don't know, like, it's kind of
(04:40):
like praying, where you're justkind of whether it's to a God or
the universe or whomever, you'reyou're kind of asking, Who am I
right? What's my purpose here?
And sometimes as you sit insilence, some answers could pop
up or visions can pop up.
Anyway, so that's Meditationyou're focusing on a mantra
(05:02):
you're focusing on maybe justyour breath. Maybe it is a
specific question that you havethat you've been pondering on.
And then mindfulness is slightlydifferent in that it's it is
more of like the guided piece.
So a body scan would beconsidered more of like a
mindfulness exercise. So it'sbringing the awareness to
(05:27):
different bodily sensations. Youknow, if I said, focus on any
parts of your body that arefeeling tingly, people might
then focus on their fingers,they might focus on their arms.
That's kind of the differencebetween those it's very gray in
(05:52):
the sense that they overlap eachother, obviously. But I would,
in short, I would say meditationalmost feels like you're kind of
on your own, in a sense, like,you know, and then mindfulness
text techniques feel a littlebit more guided.
Kira Yakubov Ploshansky (06:17):
It's, you know, it's interesting,
you're saying that because rightbefore I was getting ready for
this episode, we were doing likethese like voice stretches, and
like relaxations, like, um, andit was really relaxing. And
thinking about, like, thevibration of that in my throat
in my body, and like the soundof it all, like, kind of made me
think about all of those sensesand being more present. So I
(06:41):
actually never heard of the yousaid, so hum. is how it goes. So
hum. I really love that that'sreally cool. And it's really
deep thinking about like, yourpurpose or your answer or kind
of like who you're reaching outto, to ask for a message or
something. That's reallyawesome. Do you feel like
clients kind of resonate withthat? If it's like something new
(07:02):
that they've never tried before?
Lindsay Bauer (07:04):
I do think so. I think that like, it can invite
in a lot of scary answers toright. So a lot of times with
trauma, I do notice that this isa practice, this isn't something
like the first time they comeinto it, that they're like, oh,
(07:24):
wow, I feel completely healed. Ifeel like I have all the
answers. It can bring up somedifficulties it can bring up,
you know, because if you thinkof like, who am I memories tend
to come up. Right. And some ofthose memories might be
unpleasant, they might bepainful. So, a lot of times when
(07:45):
I do that one, it is in thetherapeutic practice in the
sense of what is coming up rightnow. So the goal necessarily
isn't to finish that meditation,it's the process through it,
it's figure out, why are youhaving blocks to who you are,
why is it difficult to sit withthe authentic part of you? Or
(08:09):
the the? Yeah, the authenticpart of you.
Kira Yakubov Ploshansky (08:15):
You know, it's interesting. So I've
had some of that mindfulness insession with clients, and I find
that clients who have hadtrauma, while they want to be
present, and the goal is to bemore connected with their body,
they notice that once they startto do some of these exercises,
or practices, they kind of getscared, like a rush of feelings,
(08:38):
or a rush of sensations, or thatthey won't be able to handle
what is going to come throughand they kind of get scared, or
that they may feel a lot ofthose shameful emotions or like
discomfort. So it's almost likethis internal struggle of like,
well, I want to be moreconnected to my body meet
present, but I'm actually reallyscared of how that's going to
(09:00):
feel.
Lindsay Bauer (09:01):
Right.
Absolutely. I mean, even justhaving people close their eyes
can feel very unsafe or justuncomfortable, right? Yeah.
Yeah. So I do, I think that Ialways like to do gentle starts,
you know, there's very beginnerlevel meditation. And I, and
like, I I personally think thata body scan. So I'm asking you
(09:27):
to pay attention to your leftbig toe is way different than,
hey, let's sit in silence for 10minutes and observe these like
deep questions that you haveabout yourself, right? So I do
pitch it in that way. Like thisis very gentle. There's a safety
to this. And a lot of times withany type of therapy approach we
(09:52):
say like maybe there's a safeword when you want to get out of
this. Let's I can bring you backinto the present moment, we'll
open our eyes, etc. So I givepeople an out because that that
can really help with feelinglost or scared or, like, you
know, not really sure what'sgoing to come up.
Kira Yakubov Ploshansky (10:14):
Yeah, so definitely a gradual approach
to help clients like, babysteps. Yeah,
Lindsay Bauer (10:19):
absolutely. Yeah.
Yeah. And so
Kira Yakubov Ploshansky (10:23):
how else do you kind of incorporate
or like your approach of thismind body connection in therapy
sessions, when they're likebringing, whether it's like
heavy things into session, orthey're just like talking about
stress or anxiety, or evengrief?
Lindsay Bauer (10:38):
Yeah, um, so I, a lot of times, yoga nidra is one
approach. So it is a type ofmeditation. And then like, I've
keep mentioning body scans,because it's just such a go to,
it's so easy, but so powerful.
So for example, let's say,someone had come in and they
(11:01):
said, I'm feeling just extremelystressed at work. And they start
ranting and kind of going onabout this coworker and this
boss, and they're not gettingpaid enough. And they have to
have a tough conversation withtheir supervisor about getting a
raise, etc. And then I kind oflike pause them, and I'm like,
(11:22):
do you mind doing a mindfulnessexercise with me? I think that I
think we're doing a lot of likecontent and cognitive stuff. But
I'm really curious if we cannotice what's happening in your
body right now. So then I say,like, what's the biggest thing
that's bothering you at work?
And they'll say, I feelunappreciated? Or maybe I don't?
They don't say that quite atfirst. But I guess I guess I'm
(11:45):
there to say I feelunappreciated. Yeah. And then I
say, Well, where do you feelthat in your body, and maybe
they say, in my stomach, like, Ijust feel tons of knots in my
stomach, let's send our breathto those areas. And every in
breath that you take, it'sexpanding. And it's almost like
unraveling those knots, or it'sloosening them a little bit. And
(12:07):
then every outbreath, you'rejust getting rid of negativity,
you're getting rid of stress,you're getting rid of worry. And
through like five minutes ofthat they just feel lighter. And
sometimes when we come to, I'mlike, so tell me about your
coworker? And they're like, Idon't, I don't really think it's
bothering me that much anymore.
I feel better, I feel relaxed.
(12:29):
So that would be like, the, likea synopsis? Like the the summary
of how I incorporate it kind ofgoes is very similar in all
sessions. Yeah.
Kira Yakubov Ploshansky (12:44):
That's interesting. So it's almost like
instead of having clients feellike they have to, like fix it,
or walk through the whole thing,or like, find different
scenarios and ways to go aboutit. It's more like, in this
moment, let's just see how heavyit actually is. let's decrease
that. And then let's come backand reassess. Like, is this
still weighing on you? Is itstill important to you?
Lindsay Bauer (13:05):
Hmm. Right. I mean, that's what all of this
mind body work is, is awareness.
It's bringing non judgmental,non analytical awareness to it.
Right. So how, you know, becausewe can stay in our heads and
kind of complain about thingsand, but when we really feel it,
whether we put a feeling word toit, like I feel unappreciated,
(13:28):
it's bringing awareness, it's,and then therefore control,
right? Because a lot of us, wedon't want to feel like we're
out of control, with ourfeelings, with our thoughts with
our behaviors. So I think thatthat's one of the big pieces to
this is giving people thisempowerment and control over
(13:51):
their own feelings, which thenmakes you feel more in control
of your life. Yeah,
Kira Yakubov Ploshansky (13:59):
yeah.
And it's also something that youcan carry with you, right? Like,
it's not, yeah, this externalthing that you have to rely on
somebody else, or you have to door you have to find a place,
it's kind of like all very muchreliant on yourself. Like, if I
know how to bring myself back toawareness, or if I know how to
give myself a body scan,anywhere, I could be on a bus, I
can be in the middle of a store,wherever, as long as I have a
(14:22):
couple of seconds, I can do thisfor me. And I'm sure like that,
within itself is reallyempowering. Because you don't
feel like you have to rely onanybody else to help yourself
through an uncomfortable moment.
Lindsay Bauer (14:35):
Correct. Right.
It's a tool and that they get tokeep with them. And it's so it's
really powerful. I think. When Ifirst started learning about all
of this, I remember going to atraining and they said, We're
going to take three deep breathsand I feel like that's the
that's what we tend to hear alot like take three deep breaths
(14:58):
when You're angry, it takesthree deep breaths when you're
stressed. And, you know, I get alot of what are three deep
breaths? You really think thatthey're gonna solve my problem?
Right? Yeah. But it's not aboutsolving the problem, like you
said, it's about being able togive yourself a tool so that you
can have problems and still livea pretty peaceful life. And that
(15:20):
the problems aren't destroyingyou that they're not controlling
you and taking over you that youfeel like, I would like to think
of like a big mighty tree.
Right, so like, it can bestorming outside. But if this
tree is grounded and rooted, itsbase, it's maybe swaying and
(15:43):
going with the storm a littlebit, but it's not bending over,
it's not breaking. Right. Sotrying to make people bunch of
lightning trees.
Kira Yakubov Ploshansky (15:54):
I love that. And I, I have to do more
meditation, I used to meditate alot more. And I would love going
outside and like having my feetin the grass. And remember, the
guided ones were like you are atree planted, like feeling like
the earth and like the roots arecoming from your feet into the
earth and like going all the wayto the core. Like I know,
sometimes, some clients or evenjust some people might feel like
(16:17):
it's a little out there, or theycan't like conceptualize it. But
I think that kind of goes backto what you're saying. Like, it
doesn't have to be cognitivelyit doesn't have to be the
thoughts in your mind. It's likeembodying that experience, and
feeling those sensations and itfeels nice, it feels really
relaxing to go there.
Lindsay Bauer (16:37):
Exactly, yeah, I know. It's, it is powerful.
It's, it's something like, youcan't just talk about it, you
have to do it, and you have toexperience it, right? Like, you
can read about it, and you canlisten to somebody else talk
about it. But once and I'mtelling you, I'll do the three
(16:57):
breaths with clients. And again,it is not solving problem. But
they're immediately like, Okay,I just feel a little bit more
present. And when you'represent, you're just able to,
you just feel a little bit moreempowered, and a little bit more
clear. And in therapy sessionstend to go better when you when
(17:20):
you start,
Kira Yakubov Ploshansky (17:21):
it makes me think about when we are
in a heightened state, we're sodysregulated and we can't really
make an informed decision or dosomething that's really
representative of like ourmorals or values, or how we
really think it becomes moreimpulsive or something like
reactive, like, I just need thisto stop, I want this to stop. So
(17:41):
I'm just going to do whatever.
Versus like, you take thosethree, three deep breaths, or
you ground yourself and you calmdown. Like, okay, how can I
actually think through this? Howdo I want to present? How do I
want to express what I'm feelingin a way that will be received,
received? Well, especially forcouples therapy, right? Like, I
want my partner to hear me andtake what I'm saying, because
(18:05):
that's the point of this, then Ineed to like, calm down, I need
to regulate myself.
Lindsay Bauer (18:12):
Yep. Exactly.
It's, it's, it's really helpfulfor crises. So whether that's in
interpersonal, and you know, ina relationship, if it's any kind
of crisis, it's it's reallyhelpful. You know, because it
does, just to kind of speak tothat piece of, oh, this, this is
something you do in a yogaclass, or this is something that
(18:36):
hippies do, or, you know, what,it's really effective for mental
health, it's really effectivefor crises. You know, you had
mentioned grief, couples.
Trauma, I mean, traumas isreally big blow to our nervous
(18:58):
system and to our wholeperception of the world and how
we move through the world.
Anger, right, anger is big, thatcan feel extremely heavy, and it
and it can also feel like I'mjust an angry person, I'm never
going to change. That's nottrue. So, you know, I don't want
people to get the misconceptionthat meditation is kind of this
(19:18):
fluffy. It only works forcertain people who believe in
it, it literally can work foranyone who wants to try it.
Super accessible to
Kira Yakubov Ploshansky (19:32):
Yes, it's free. Anyone? Anyone can do
it. And so can you share alittle bit more about how grief
sits in our body or lands in ourbody and how you kind of help
people work through that?
Lindsay Bauer (19:45):
Yeah, so I do a lot with grief, especially with
the infertility element of mypractice. So with grief, I
noticed like first When youthink of when I think of grief,
I think of just like anemotional heaviness, sadness,
(20:09):
anger, resentment, fear, all ofthat kind of gives us this
tightening in our muscles. Andthen it also creates like
headaches, belly aches, thingsthat we don't really just, we
(20:29):
don't, we wouldn't associatenecessarily with grief, but it
does. So sometimes muscle aches,you know, like, if you're really
tense and you're in, you're kindof like sitting like this a lot
or your shoulders are up, you dotend to create tightness in the
muscles. So that would be onething. And then also with, with
(20:52):
grief, I think of bad sleep. Youknow, when you're really
stressed, when you're really sadabout something, either you're
not sleeping well, or gettingany sleep, or if you are
sleeping, sometimes our dreamscan be super vivid and
(21:12):
disrupted. And have you everwoken up from a very stressful
or scary dream? And you're justthrown off all day? Yeah, yes.
And then just not getting goodsleep can also affect your
health, physical and mentalhealth. So I really noticed a
lot of that too. And, and withsadness or depression, that
(21:38):
comes from grief, a lot of timespeople self care tends to go
down. So they're allintertwined, right? So our
physical bodies are nutritionalbodies, our cognitive,
everything is intertwined. Sothe thing about grief is it's
just really, really powerful.
And it affects it's not justlike, oh, it just made me a
(22:00):
little sad. It's affecting everylevel of our bodies of our
energies. Yeah, so it's, it'sintense, I think, sounds
Kira Yakubov Ploshansky (22:11):
all encompassing, right. And like,
you're saying, there is no like,disconnect. We can't just like,
put this one side over here andnot experience it. Because our
nervous systems all messed up,if we're not eating, if we're
not sleeping properly, thatimpacts how we think how we
feel, which continues like thisvicious cycle, and then
isolating or lashing out or, youknow, everybody kind of
(22:34):
experiences grief differently,and how it's expressed. And I'm
sure how we were, you know,raised or what we saw growing up
that was like culturally normal,or within our family of how to
show or process grief or notprocess it, I'm sure plays a
huge impact as well.
Lindsay Bauer (22:54):
Yes. Yeah. Right.
And I do I think that a lot oftimes with grief, like what
you're saying processing or notprocessing? I don't know that
we're taught that. Right, right.
I mean, if if you had a loss, amajor loss in your family
(23:16):
growing up, and your parentshelped you process that, then
great, you've learned it, but Ijust, I don't know, from my
personal experience, and also,my professional experience, it
just seems like it wasn't taughtvery well. A lot of people may
have lost someone. And then Isaid, Well, oh my goodness,
(23:37):
like, how did you process thatas a kid? And I was like, I
didn't like my parents didn'ttalk to me about it. And I'm
thinking, oh, you know, I thinkit's just such a scary, heavy
thing that we tend to be like,oh, let's push over there. You
know, so yeah, part of my workwith grief is to help clients
(23:59):
find comfortable as comfortableas possible ways of processing
it. And that a lot of the bestway to reach them is through the
mind body work that I do andkind of saying, like, Hey, we're
gonna bring awareness to whatwe're feeling. Well, even, you
know, labeling what we'refeeling I didn't realize that
(24:20):
this was anger, right? I justwas walking around thinking I
was a jerk. No, it's it's angerwith sadness underneath of it.
And then I like to add the nonjudgmental piece. I validate and
validate and validate you'reallowed to feel angry, right?
This is unfair. This this isvery unfair that this happened
(24:42):
to you. But is your anger givingyou a better quality of life? Or
is it kind of chaining you tothese really sad feelings?
Kira Yakubov Ploshansk (24:53):
Labeling a lot of bringing awareness and
not pushing it away and notcompartmentalizing it and not
Just like shoving it downsomewhere and trying to distract
ourselves.
Lindsay Bauer (25:04):
Right? Exactly right, owning it, understanding
it, because when you understandit adds some compassion and a
little bit of lightness to it.
And then it makes it a littlemore bearable, to live with. And
each day, every day that you domore work and more processing,
it gets a little bit lighter anda little bit easier to
Kira Yakubov Ploshansky (25:25):
do you see this come up in couples
therapy, where, let's say eitherboth partners are experiencing
the same loss, or only onepartner kind of experience the
loss, and they're grieving andtheir other partners trying to
be supportive. But like you'resaying, if you're angry or
irritable, it can be really hardto support someone who is
(25:47):
presenting that way, or likepushing people away, even though
they really want support andcompassion.
Lindsay Bauer (25:54):
Right? Well, you know, If a couple is
experiencing the same loss, thatactually tends to bring up more
issues, because I think you saidthis a little earlier, we all
grieve differently, right? Well,just in general, we all heal
differently, we all perceivedifferently. So sometimes with
(26:15):
my couples, the first part ofgetting them to accept that this
is going to be a different pathfor both of them. But how do we
stay on the same path as apartnership. And I say that's by
accepting each other's differentpaths, if that makes sense. So
it's, it's helping them tolisten and understand, Oh, we're
(26:37):
going through the same loss.
But, but your grief looks likethis or feels like this, and
mine looks and feels like this,how can I sit in yours yet also
protect mine. And vice versa.
And it's really, it'schallenging to do that. And a
lot of times with like, reallyintense grief, you know, couples
(26:58):
need a little bit of a break,they need to kind of heal and do
their own thing. Like I'mthinking like the loss of a
child, you know, that is so deepand so heavy. I don't, you know,
I don't expect I'm not likeyou're not getting a reward at
the end of this. If you're ifyour guys's marriage makes it
through the loss of a child. I'mnot saying definitely get
(27:22):
divorced or separate. But if youneed a little bit of separation
or space to heal on your own,you didn't fail, right. And
that's a really big thing thatthey need to know right away.
Because it's just very heavy anddifficult to sit and learn and
(27:43):
understand your own grief. Andthen to do that at the same time
with your partner, verypossible. It's just very, very
difficult. So what we work on iscommunication. I mean, that's a
big piece. So how can I be openand honest, even though it may
(28:05):
bring up sadness for my partner?
I still need to be open andhonest. Because think about
like, if you and your husbandhave Have you ever tried to play
the guessing game? Have you evertried to, you know, I'm assuming
that he feels this way, and it'snever really quite works out. So
it in grief it or any kind ofheavy emotion, it's really not
(28:31):
helpful to try and guess and tryand figure out so being as clear
and open about what your feelingis, is just, that's kind of like
the starting point. So open andhonest, communication. And then
that understanding andvalidation. So I can see why you
(28:51):
would feel like your whole worldis flipped upside down. Or I can
see why life doesn't make senseanymore for you. I can see why
you're not happy in the things,you know, because sometimes we
take that personal if ourpartner says I'm not happy, it's
like, oh, you're not happy withme. Okay, I don't make your life
(29:13):
happy. But I think what they'rereally communicating is, this
grief is so hard and anddifficult. And right now I feel
like life isn't satisfying. Doesthat make sense? Yeah,
Kira Yakubov Ploshansky (29:31):
it totally makes sense. Yeah. And I
think yes, it's a difficult anddelicate dance is what it sounds
like, because both people arehearing this heaviness. And
they're experiencing itdifferently. And it sounds like
you have to take care ofyourself first. But then you
also have a partner that youcare about and that your partner
(29:52):
wants to be taken care of too.
And it's like how much capacityDo you have? Right? I think
that's what it sounds like. Noteverybody has the capacity to
who grieve just for themselves,let alone be there for their
partner and help them grieve,especially when it looks and
presents so differently. And sojust not allowing that to drift
or to pull them apart so farthat now they're just on
(30:16):
separate paths, and they're nolonger able to do this together.
Lindsay Bauer (30:22):
Yeah, exactly.
Kira Yakubov Ploshansky (30:24):
That's tough.
Lindsay Bauer (30:25):
That sounds really tough. Yeah. Yeah, it is.
And that's, again, justvalidating that this is going to
be a really tough journey. Andyou guys are allowed to take it,
how you how it unfolds, right?
Like, we're gonna let thisunfold. But I do, I just, I
think letting them know thatyou're allowed to be on
(30:47):
different paths and still loveeach other, you're allowed to be
on different paths and stillhave a successful relationship,
you know, two different pathsdoesn't mean that you guys are
failing it just like, that's howwe survive when it comes to such
heavy visual
Kira Yakubov Ploshansky (31:06):
of being on the highway, of just
like, there's an express lane,and there's another lane and
you're both going in the samedirection, but you're on a
different level, and you can'teven see each other, but you
have to trust that it's stillgoing towards the same end goal,
or the same destination, justpopped up for me thinking about
that, because it's different,but you're trying to get to the
(31:26):
same place together.
Lindsay Bauer (31:28):
Yeah, yeah. And I don't know why that makes me
think of, you know, take griefout of it. Like, when you meet
somebody, you don't know whatthe rest of your lives are going
to look like, you know, you finda partner, and you love these
qualities about them. And you'recompatible. And maybe you've
(31:50):
gone through a couple of thingsbefore you, you know, you get
married or totally committed toeach other. But then life might
throw you some of the darkestheaviest things, and you didn't
know how your partner wouldrespond, you didn't know how
you're going to respond in thosesituations. So I always bring
that up, too. I'm kind of like,look like you're learning each
(32:11):
other over again, in this grief,and open yourselves up to that,
you know, kind of create acuriousness about your partner
and yourself during this time.
And that can kind of like anopen mind. And that can that can
bring some lightness and somesoftness, which is really
important during that
Kira Yakubov Ploshansky (32:30):
I think that's such a, it's such a good
point. Such a powerful way tothink about that. Because
sometimes we might think like,oh, I don't even know who you
are, or I don't know who I amanymore, or, you know, you don't
recognize each other. Likesomehow you were duped. But no,
we don't know how we're going tobe in a situation we might, you
know, hypothesize, we mightassume based on our past
(32:53):
experiences. But we really,truly don't know until we're
there. Right. So I like that. Ilike that you bring that up to
point out to people too. Yeah.
Yeah. So seems like there is.
And I've heard this a lot withsome of my clients that there's
almost like this struggle of,you know, when I'm grieving or
(33:13):
when I'm sad, or something badhappens. I don't feel like I'm
allowed to also feel joy, or tobe happy or to experience these
good things. Because this sadthing has happened, like, is
that fair? Or is that okay?
Relic? Is there space for all ofthis, especially in couples
therapy, when maybe one personis a little further down the
(33:35):
line in their grieving process,or just at that point where
they're open to having more joy?
Kind of, if you've been able tokind of help couples, like
reframe that or allow them tolike have more of these intimate
moments where the connection ismore light and not as serious,
(33:55):
huh?
Lindsay Bauer (33:57):
Yeah. So when you were saying that I was kind of
going personally back to when mypartner and I, we were going
through our infertilitystruggles, which had a lot of
grief associated with it. He soyou are kind of saying like, one
might be further along like thatexpress lane. But it's not, you
(34:19):
know, not just like in terms ofwhere we are in our healing
process, but how we heal. So hegot his healing as an extrovert,
very socially, and like goingout and being around people. Me
I got my healing from wanting tostay in. I'm very introverted
and kind of like, like reservingreflecting, going inward and,
(34:44):
and there were times that I waslike, Whoa, by you going out.
You're kind of abandoning me.
And he said, I'm not abandoningyou. I need to also go take care
of myself. And so that open lineof communication, you know, I
feel I, I feel abandoned whenyou go out and are socializing.
But the moment he said, Yeah,but socializing is helping me
(35:07):
heal, it did allow me to kind ofstep back and say, Oh, he
deserves to heal, too and hisway, not just my way. So that's
a big component is helpingcouples individually understand
what works for them. Becauselike we were saying, this is a
new world, right? This is a newprocess that we need to take on.
(35:29):
And then how do we accept theway our partner is going to go
through it? So a little bit ofbalance in there, my partner has
to heal. But we also have tofind a way to heal together, and
what will that look like?
Kira Yakubov Ploshansky (35:44):
I appreciate you sharing that.
Thank you. I know that's not aneasy part of our lives to
vulnerability to bring through.
So thank you for sharing thatpersonal experience. Yeah. So
Lindsay, I know that we couldprobably talk about this for
much longer, so maybe we'll haveyou back again for another
episode for something more indepth. But is there anything new
coming up in your practiceprofessionally in your life that
(36:08):
you want to share with thelisteners?
Lindsay Bauer (36:11):
Um, you know, I wish that I could say that, that
I was hosting like a retreat. Imean, all of that is coming.
It's just there's no set date. Ihave a lot of ideas. I did just
work on my website. So mywebsite is now new and polished.
It's beautiful. I love it. Andactually, it's funny, we were
(36:33):
talking about grief in couples,I actually have a blog up about
that. So if you head to mywebsite, and you go to the blog
section, you can find that so ifyou wanted a little bit more
detail, or sometimes being ableto read that can be helpful. But
yeah, I know in March, I will bedoing a short yoga segment with
(36:57):
retreat. It's for new moms postpostpartum moms. So it's kind of
like a retreat for new moms togo to. And there are two
psychologists, I believe, whoare hosting more details in the
future. It's very new. But yeah,that's kind of what yoga ologies
(37:19):
got coming up.
Kira Yakubov Ploshansky (37:20):
That's awesome. Is this a virtual
retreat or in person? No, it'sin person in Conshohocken. Oh,
nice. Wonderful.
Lindsay Bauer (37:27):
Yes. Excited.
Yeah. Yeah.
Kira Yakubov Ploshansky (37:29):
And so your website is your yoga
ology.com It
Lindsay Bauer (37:33):
is not. I want it to be yoga ology comm working on
it. But right now, the domain isLindsay Bauer, M F t.com.
Kira Yakubov Ploshansk (37:42):
Awesome, okay. And we'll put that in the
show notes for everybody to goto. And that's how they can
reach out to you if they want towork with you. Whether it's for
individual couples therapy, orany kind of yoga or any of these
retreats coming up in thefuture.
Lindsay Bauer (37:54):
Absolutely. Yes.
On the website, there are plentyof ways to contact me phone
email, I even have a book a freeconsultation, which is very,
very nice. Like sometimes peoplelike let me just jump to that
piece. I don't want to do allthe emailing. I want my 15
minute consultation right now.
Yeah.
Kira Yakubov Ploshansk (38:14):
Perfect.
onesie. Thank you so much forbeing on with us. This was
awesome to talk with you andlearn more about some of your
insights and expertise.
Lindsay Bauer (38:22):
Thanks, Kara. I appreciate it.
Welcome back to Heal Your Roots Podcast.
In today's episode, we haveLindsay Bower, sharing how she
uses the mind body connection inher therapy work, and
particularly how she helpscouples move through grief
together, you're going to wantto listen into today's episode.
Lindsay, thank you so much.
Welcome back for a secondepisode with you and really
excited to have you back ontoday.
Lindsay Bauer (00:22):
Thank you for having me, Kara.
Kira Yakubov Plosha (00:24):
Absolutely.
So I know in our first episode,you talked a little bit more
about your background, what madeyou want to become a therapist.
So just for today's episode, ifyou can kind of share a little
bit about what you do, where youwork at just so the listeners if
they didn't hear the firstepisode, get an idea of who you
are.
Lindsay Bauer (00:43):
I'm Lindsay Bauer, I am the owner of yoga
ology. It's a private practice,centered in Philadelphia, but I
do service Pennsylvania and NewJersey as I'm licensed in both.
I'm a marriage family therapist,and I specialize in infertility,
grief, trauma and anxiety. So Iprovide individual therapy and
(01:08):
couples therapy. And my practiceyoga, ology specializes in mind
body, that's kind of like ourniche. So within any kind of
situation or issue that youmight be bringing into therapy,
we're going to approach it witha mind body approach. There's a
(01:28):
holistic health in it at yogaallergy. And so that's something
that I pride myself on, and Imake sure that everybody knows
you're not leaving a therapysession without having some kind
of mind body approach to it. Sothat breathwork, meditation,
mindfulness, etc.
Kira Yakubov Ploshansky (01:46):
Because he does a lot of things, and I
know you do, like meditationclasses, or meditation coaching
as well. Yes,
Lindsay Bauer (01:54):
thank you. So that's actually like a big part
of the mind body work. So a lotof times people are, are like,
Well, how do you incorporateyoga or meditation or breath
work into sessions. And the yogapiece is a little tricky,
because those kind of have to bescheduled separately. But with
(02:17):
meditation, you know, someone'stalking about stress or anxiety
that they're having. A lot oftimes, I'll just say, you know,
let's, let's kind of go into ameditation right now. Whether
it's a guided meditation,whether it's a body scan,
whether it's more like amindfulness exercise, but yes, I
(02:42):
help people. And sometimespeople come just because they
want to work on their meditationpractice, and, and incorporate a
little bit more of that intotheir daily lives. So I think
people find they say, they finda hard time, finding the time
(03:02):
and how to implement it intotheir schedules. So if they
already have a therapy session,in their routine, then they just
add the meditation into it, andit works nicely for them. So
it's a nice little trick.
Kira Yakubov Ploshansky (03:17):
That's awesome. And so for people who
may not know the differencebetween let's say, like, a
guided meditation, a body scanmindfulness, could you share a
little bit about the differencesand like, what that might look
like? And how you kind ofpresent that in sessions with
clients too?
Lindsay Bauer (03:34):
Yeah, yeah.
Meditation, it is kind oftricky. Meditation is, has like
the focusing on your it's almostlike bringing awareness in to
it. So you're, you're focusingon one thing, so it could be a
mantra, which is a prayer or aan intention or an affirmation.
(03:58):
So for example, a common one isso hum or translated to I m. And
that would be kind of like yousay, so hum over and over and
over. So every time an intrusivethought comes in or every time a
a task that you need to get donefor the day pops in, you just
(04:19):
keep following so hums so hum.
And that is opening yourself toI am I am I am and I use this
with clients who tend to feelunworthy, or they have any kind
of identity issues this way. IfI don't know, like, it's kind of
(04:40):
like praying, where you're justkind of whether it's to a God or
the universe or whomever, you'reyou're kind of asking, Who am I
right? What's my purpose here?
And sometimes as you sit insilence, some answers could pop
up or visions can pop up.
Anyway, so that's Meditationyou're focusing on a mantra
(05:02):
you're focusing on maybe justyour breath. Maybe it is a
specific question that you havethat you've been pondering on.
And then mindfulness is slightlydifferent in that it's it is
more of like the guided piece.
So a body scan would beconsidered more of like a
mindfulness exercise. So it'sbringing the awareness to
(05:27):
different bodily sensations. Youknow, if I said, focus on any
parts of your body that arefeeling tingly, people might
then focus on their fingers,they might focus on their arms.
That's kind of the differencebetween those it's very gray in
(05:52):
the sense that they overlap eachother, obviously. But I would,
in short, I would say meditationalmost feels like you're kind of
on your own, in a sense, like,you know, and then mindfulness
text techniques feel a littlebit more guided.
Kira Yakubov Ploshansky (06:17):
It's, you know, it's interesting,
you're saying that because rightbefore I was getting ready for
this episode, we were doing likethese like voice stretches, and
like relaxations, like, um, andit was really relaxing. And
thinking about, like, thevibration of that in my throat
in my body, and like the soundof it all, like, kind of made me
think about all of those sensesand being more present. So I
(06:41):
actually never heard of the yousaid, so hum. is how it goes. So
hum. I really love that that'sreally cool. And it's really
deep thinking about like, yourpurpose or your answer or kind
of like who you're reaching outto, to ask for a message or
something. That's reallyawesome. Do you feel like
clients kind of resonate withthat? If it's like something new
(07:02):
that they've never tried before?
Lindsay Bauer (07:04):
I do think so. I think that like, it can invite
in a lot of scary answers toright. So a lot of times with
trauma, I do notice that this isa practice, this isn't something
like the first time they comeinto it, that they're like, oh,
(07:24):
wow, I feel completely healed. Ifeel like I have all the
answers. It can bring up somedifficulties it can bring up,
you know, because if you thinkof like, who am I memories tend
to come up. Right. And some ofthose memories might be
unpleasant, they might bepainful. So, a lot of times when
(07:45):
I do that one, it is in thetherapeutic practice in the
sense of what is coming up rightnow. So the goal necessarily
isn't to finish that meditation,it's the process through it,
it's figure out, why are youhaving blocks to who you are,
why is it difficult to sit withthe authentic part of you? Or
(08:09):
the the? Yeah, the authenticpart of you.
Kira Yakubov Ploshansky (08:15):
You know, it's interesting. So I've
had some of that mindfulness insession with clients, and I find
that clients who have hadtrauma, while they want to be
present, and the goal is to bemore connected with their body,
they notice that once they startto do some of these exercises,
or practices, they kind of getscared, like a rush of feelings,
(08:38):
or a rush of sensations, or thatthey won't be able to handle
what is going to come throughand they kind of get scared, or
that they may feel a lot ofthose shameful emotions or like
discomfort. So it's almost likethis internal struggle of like,
well, I want to be moreconnected to my body meet
present, but I'm actually reallyscared of how that's going to
(09:00):
feel.
Lindsay Bauer (09:01):
Right.
Absolutely. I mean, even justhaving people close their eyes
can feel very unsafe or justuncomfortable, right? Yeah.
Yeah. So I do, I think that Ialways like to do gentle starts,
you know, there's very beginnerlevel meditation. And I, and
like, I I personally think thata body scan. So I'm asking you
(09:27):
to pay attention to your leftbig toe is way different than,
hey, let's sit in silence for 10minutes and observe these like
deep questions that you haveabout yourself, right? So I do
pitch it in that way. Like thisis very gentle. There's a safety
to this. And a lot of times withany type of therapy approach we
(09:52):
say like maybe there's a safeword when you want to get out of
this. Let's I can bring you backinto the present moment, we'll
open our eyes, etc. So I givepeople an out because that that
can really help with feelinglost or scared or, like, you
know, not really sure what'sgoing to come up.
Kira Yakubov Ploshansky (10:14):
Yeah, so definitely a gradual approach
to help clients like, babysteps. Yeah,
Lindsay Bauer (10:19):
absolutely. Yeah.
Yeah. And so
Kira Yakubov Ploshansky (10:23):
how else do you kind of incorporate
or like your approach of thismind body connection in therapy
sessions, when they're likebringing, whether it's like
heavy things into session, orthey're just like talking about
stress or anxiety, or evengrief?
Lindsay Bauer (10:38):
Yeah, um, so I, a lot of times, yoga nidra is one
approach. So it is a type ofmeditation. And then like, I've
keep mentioning body scans,because it's just such a go to,
it's so easy, but so powerful.
So for example, let's say,someone had come in and they
(11:01):
said, I'm feeling just extremelystressed at work. And they start
ranting and kind of going onabout this coworker and this
boss, and they're not gettingpaid enough. And they have to
have a tough conversation withtheir supervisor about getting a
raise, etc. And then I kind oflike pause them, and I'm like,
(11:22):
do you mind doing a mindfulnessexercise with me? I think that I
think we're doing a lot of likecontent and cognitive stuff. But
I'm really curious if we cannotice what's happening in your
body right now. So then I say,like, what's the biggest thing
that's bothering you at work?
And they'll say, I feelunappreciated? Or maybe I don't?
They don't say that quite atfirst. But I guess I guess I'm
(11:45):
there to say I feelunappreciated. Yeah. And then I
say, Well, where do you feelthat in your body, and maybe
they say, in my stomach, like, Ijust feel tons of knots in my
stomach, let's send our breathto those areas. And every in
breath that you take, it'sexpanding. And it's almost like
unraveling those knots, or it'sloosening them a little bit. And
(12:07):
then every outbreath, you'rejust getting rid of negativity,
you're getting rid of stress,you're getting rid of worry. And
through like five minutes ofthat they just feel lighter. And
sometimes when we come to, I'mlike, so tell me about your
coworker? And they're like, Idon't, I don't really think it's
bothering me that much anymore.
I feel better, I feel relaxed.
(12:29):
So that would be like, the, likea synopsis? Like the the summary
of how I incorporate it kind ofgoes is very similar in all
sessions. Yeah.
Kira Yakubov Ploshansky (12:44):
That's interesting. So it's almost like
instead of having clients feellike they have to, like fix it,
or walk through the whole thing,or like, find different
scenarios and ways to go aboutit. It's more like, in this
moment, let's just see how heavyit actually is. let's decrease
that. And then let's come backand reassess. Like, is this
still weighing on you? Is itstill important to you?
Lindsay Bauer (13:05):
Hmm. Right. I mean, that's what all of this
mind body work is, is awareness.
It's bringing non judgmental,non analytical awareness to it.
Right. So how, you know, becausewe can stay in our heads and
kind of complain about thingsand, but when we really feel it,
whether we put a feeling word toit, like I feel unappreciated,
(13:28):
it's bringing awareness, it's,and then therefore control,
right? Because a lot of us, wedon't want to feel like we're
out of control, with ourfeelings, with our thoughts with
our behaviors. So I think thatthat's one of the big pieces to
this is giving people thisempowerment and control over
(13:51):
their own feelings, which thenmakes you feel more in control
of your life. Yeah,
Kira Yakubov Ploshansky (13:59):
yeah.
And it's also something that youcan carry with you, right? Like,
it's not, yeah, this externalthing that you have to rely on
somebody else, or you have to door you have to find a place,
it's kind of like all very muchreliant on yourself. Like, if I
know how to bring myself back toawareness, or if I know how to
give myself a body scan,anywhere, I could be on a bus, I
can be in the middle of a store,wherever, as long as I have a
(14:22):
couple of seconds, I can do thisfor me. And I'm sure like that,
within itself is reallyempowering. Because you don't
feel like you have to rely onanybody else to help yourself
through an uncomfortable moment.
Lindsay Bauer (14:35):
Correct. Right.
It's a tool and that they get tokeep with them. And it's so it's
really powerful. I think. When Ifirst started learning about all
of this, I remember going to atraining and they said, We're
going to take three deep breathsand I feel like that's the
that's what we tend to hear alot like take three deep breaths
(14:58):
when You're angry, it takesthree deep breaths when you're
stressed. And, you know, I get alot of what are three deep
breaths? You really think thatthey're gonna solve my problem?
Right? Yeah. But it's not aboutsolving the problem, like you
said, it's about being able togive yourself a tool so that you
can have problems and still livea pretty peaceful life. And that
(15:20):
the problems aren't destroyingyou that they're not controlling
you and taking over you that youfeel like, I would like to think
of like a big mighty tree.
Right, so like, it can bestorming outside. But if this
tree is grounded and rooted, itsbase, it's maybe swaying and
(15:43):
going with the storm a littlebit, but it's not bending over,
it's not breaking. Right. Sotrying to make people bunch of
lightning trees.
Kira Yakubov Ploshansky (15:54):
I love that. And I, I have to do more
meditation, I used to meditate alot more. And I would love going
outside and like having my feetin the grass. And remember, the
guided ones were like you are atree planted, like feeling like
the earth and like the roots arecoming from your feet into the
earth and like going all the wayto the core. Like I know,
sometimes, some clients or evenjust some people might feel like
(16:17):
it's a little out there, or theycan't like conceptualize it. But
I think that kind of goes backto what you're saying. Like, it
doesn't have to be cognitivelyit doesn't have to be the
thoughts in your mind. It's likeembodying that experience, and
feeling those sensations and itfeels nice, it feels really
relaxing to go there.
Lindsay Bauer (16:37):
Exactly, yeah, I know. It's, it is powerful.
It's, it's something like, youcan't just talk about it, you
have to do it, and you have toexperience it, right? Like, you
can read about it, and you canlisten to somebody else talk
about it. But once and I'mtelling you, I'll do the three
(16:57):
breaths with clients. And again,it is not solving problem. But
they're immediately like, Okay,I just feel a little bit more
present. And when you'represent, you're just able to,
you just feel a little bit moreempowered, and a little bit more
clear. And in therapy sessionstend to go better when you when
(17:20):
you start,
Kira Yakubov Ploshansky (17:21):
it makes me think about when we are
in a heightened state, we're sodysregulated and we can't really
make an informed decision or dosomething that's really
representative of like ourmorals or values, or how we
really think it becomes moreimpulsive or something like
reactive, like, I just need thisto stop, I want this to stop. So
(17:41):
I'm just going to do whatever.
Versus like, you take thosethree, three deep breaths, or
you ground yourself and you calmdown. Like, okay, how can I
actually think through this? Howdo I want to present? How do I
want to express what I'm feelingin a way that will be received,
received? Well, especially forcouples therapy, right? Like, I
want my partner to hear me andtake what I'm saying, because
(18:05):
that's the point of this, then Ineed to like, calm down, I need
to regulate myself.
Lindsay Bauer (18:12):
Yep. Exactly.
It's, it's, it's really helpfulfor crises. So whether that's in
interpersonal, and you know, ina relationship, if it's any kind
of crisis, it's it's reallyhelpful. You know, because it
does, just to kind of speak tothat piece of, oh, this, this is
something you do in a yogaclass, or this is something that
(18:36):
hippies do, or, you know, what,it's really effective for mental
health, it's really effectivefor crises. You know, you had
mentioned grief, couples.
Trauma, I mean, traumas isreally big blow to our nervous
(18:58):
system and to our wholeperception of the world and how
we move through the world.
Anger, right, anger is big, thatcan feel extremely heavy, and it
and it can also feel like I'mjust an angry person, I'm never
going to change. That's nottrue. So, you know, I don't want
people to get the misconceptionthat meditation is kind of this
(19:18):
fluffy. It only works forcertain people who believe in
it, it literally can work foranyone who wants to try it.
Super accessible to
Kira Yakubov Ploshansky (19:32):
Yes, it's free. Anyone? Anyone can do
it. And so can you share alittle bit more about how grief
sits in our body or lands in ourbody and how you kind of help
people work through that?
Lindsay Bauer (19:45):
Yeah, so I do a lot with grief, especially with
the infertility element of mypractice. So with grief, I
noticed like first When youthink of when I think of grief,
I think of just like anemotional heaviness, sadness,
(20:09):
anger, resentment, fear, all ofthat kind of gives us this
tightening in our muscles. Andthen it also creates like
headaches, belly aches, thingsthat we don't really just, we
(20:29):
don't, we wouldn't associatenecessarily with grief, but it
does. So sometimes muscle aches,you know, like, if you're really
tense and you're in, you're kindof like sitting like this a lot
or your shoulders are up, you dotend to create tightness in the
muscles. So that would be onething. And then also with, with
(20:52):
grief, I think of bad sleep. Youknow, when you're really
stressed, when you're really sadabout something, either you're
not sleeping well, or gettingany sleep, or if you are
sleeping, sometimes our dreamscan be super vivid and
(21:12):
disrupted. And have you everwoken up from a very stressful
or scary dream? And you're justthrown off all day? Yeah, yes.
And then just not getting goodsleep can also affect your
health, physical and mentalhealth. So I really noticed a
lot of that too. And, and withsadness or depression, that
(21:38):
comes from grief, a lot of timespeople self care tends to go
down. So they're allintertwined, right? So our
physical bodies are nutritionalbodies, our cognitive,
everything is intertwined. Sothe thing about grief is it's
just really, really powerful.
And it affects it's not justlike, oh, it just made me a
(22:00):
little sad. It's affecting everylevel of our bodies of our
energies. Yeah, so it's, it'sintense, I think, sounds
Kira Yakubov Ploshansky (22:11):
all encompassing, right. And like,
you're saying, there is no like,disconnect. We can't just like,
put this one side over here andnot experience it. Because our
nervous systems all messed up,if we're not eating, if we're
not sleeping properly, thatimpacts how we think how we
feel, which continues like thisvicious cycle, and then
isolating or lashing out or, youknow, everybody kind of
(22:34):
experiences grief differently,and how it's expressed. And I'm
sure how we were, you know,raised or what we saw growing up
that was like culturally normal,or within our family of how to
show or process grief or notprocess it, I'm sure plays a
huge impact as well.
Lindsay Bauer (22:54):
Yes. Yeah. Right.
And I do I think that a lot oftimes with grief, like what
you're saying processing or notprocessing? I don't know that
we're taught that. Right, right.
I mean, if if you had a loss, amajor loss in your family
(23:16):
growing up, and your parentshelped you process that, then
great, you've learned it, but Ijust, I don't know, from my
personal experience, and also,my professional experience, it
just seems like it wasn't taughtvery well. A lot of people may
have lost someone. And then Isaid, Well, oh my goodness,
(23:37):
like, how did you process thatas a kid? And I was like, I
didn't like my parents didn'ttalk to me about it. And I'm
thinking, oh, you know, I thinkit's just such a scary, heavy
thing that we tend to be like,oh, let's push over there. You
know, so yeah, part of my workwith grief is to help clients
(23:59):
find comfortable as comfortableas possible ways of processing
it. And that a lot of the bestway to reach them is through the
mind body work that I do andkind of saying, like, Hey, we're
gonna bring awareness to whatwe're feeling. Well, even, you
know, labeling what we'refeeling I didn't realize that
(24:20):
this was anger, right? I justwas walking around thinking I
was a jerk. No, it's it's angerwith sadness underneath of it.
And then I like to add the nonjudgmental piece. I validate and
validate and validate you'reallowed to feel angry, right?
This is unfair. This this isvery unfair that this happened
(24:42):
to you. But is your anger givingyou a better quality of life? Or
is it kind of chaining you tothese really sad feelings?
Kira Yakubov Ploshansk (24:53):
Labeling a lot of bringing awareness and
not pushing it away and notcompartmentalizing it and not
Just like shoving it downsomewhere and trying to distract
ourselves.
Lindsay Bauer (25:04):
Right? Exactly right, owning it, understanding
it, because when you understandit adds some compassion and a
little bit of lightness to it.
And then it makes it a littlemore bearable, to live with. And
each day, every day that you domore work and more processing,
it gets a little bit lighter anda little bit easier to
Kira Yakubov Ploshansky (25:25):
do you see this come up in couples
therapy, where, let's say eitherboth partners are experiencing
the same loss, or only onepartner kind of experience the
loss, and they're grieving andtheir other partners trying to
be supportive. But like you'resaying, if you're angry or
irritable, it can be really hardto support someone who is
(25:47):
presenting that way, or likepushing people away, even though
they really want support andcompassion.
Lindsay Bauer (25:54):
Right? Well, you know, If a couple is
experiencing the same loss, thatactually tends to bring up more
issues, because I think you saidthis a little earlier, we all
grieve differently, right? Well,just in general, we all heal
differently, we all perceivedifferently. So sometimes with
(26:15):
my couples, the first part ofgetting them to accept that this
is going to be a different pathfor both of them. But how do we
stay on the same path as apartnership. And I say that's by
accepting each other's differentpaths, if that makes sense. So
it's, it's helping them tolisten and understand, Oh, we're
(26:37):
going through the same loss.
But, but your grief looks likethis or feels like this, and
mine looks and feels like this,how can I sit in yours yet also
protect mine. And vice versa.
And it's really, it'schallenging to do that. And a
lot of times with like, reallyintense grief, you know, couples
(26:58):
need a little bit of a break,they need to kind of heal and do
their own thing. Like I'mthinking like the loss of a
child, you know, that is so deepand so heavy. I don't, you know,
I don't expect I'm not likeyou're not getting a reward at
the end of this. If you're ifyour guys's marriage makes it
through the loss of a child. I'mnot saying definitely get
(27:22):
divorced or separate. But if youneed a little bit of separation
or space to heal on your own,you didn't fail, right. And
that's a really big thing thatthey need to know right away.
Because it's just very heavy anddifficult to sit and learn and
(27:43):
understand your own grief. Andthen to do that at the same time
with your partner, verypossible. It's just very, very
difficult. So what we work on iscommunication. I mean, that's a
big piece. So how can I be openand honest, even though it may
(28:05):
bring up sadness for my partner?
I still need to be open andhonest. Because think about
like, if you and your husbandhave Have you ever tried to play
the guessing game? Have you evertried to, you know, I'm assuming
that he feels this way, and it'snever really quite works out. So
it in grief it or any kind ofheavy emotion, it's really not
(28:31):
helpful to try and guess and tryand figure out so being as clear
and open about what your feelingis, is just, that's kind of like
the starting point. So open andhonest, communication. And then
that understanding andvalidation. So I can see why you
(28:51):
would feel like your whole worldis flipped upside down. Or I can
see why life doesn't make senseanymore for you. I can see why
you're not happy in the things,you know, because sometimes we
take that personal if ourpartner says I'm not happy, it's
like, oh, you're not happy withme. Okay, I don't make your life
(29:13):
happy. But I think what they'rereally communicating is, this
grief is so hard and anddifficult. And right now I feel
like life isn't satisfying. Doesthat make sense? Yeah,
Kira Yakubov Ploshansky (29:31):
it totally makes sense. Yeah. And I
think yes, it's a difficult anddelicate dance is what it sounds
like, because both people arehearing this heaviness. And
they're experiencing itdifferently. And it sounds like
you have to take care ofyourself first. But then you
also have a partner that youcare about and that your partner
(29:52):
wants to be taken care of too.
And it's like how much capacityDo you have? Right? I think
that's what it sounds like. Noteverybody has the capacity to
who grieve just for themselves,let alone be there for their
partner and help them grieve,especially when it looks and
presents so differently. And sojust not allowing that to drift
or to pull them apart so farthat now they're just on
(30:16):
separate paths, and they're nolonger able to do this together.
Lindsay Bauer (30:22):
Yeah, exactly.
Kira Yakubov Ploshansky (30:24):
That's tough.
Lindsay Bauer (30:25):
That sounds really tough. Yeah. Yeah, it is.
And that's, again, justvalidating that this is going to
be a really tough journey. Andyou guys are allowed to take it,
how you how it unfolds, right?
Like, we're gonna let thisunfold. But I do, I just, I
think letting them know thatyou're allowed to be on
(30:47):
different paths and still loveeach other, you're allowed to be
on different paths and stillhave a successful relationship,
you know, two different pathsdoesn't mean that you guys are
failing it just like, that's howwe survive when it comes to such
heavy visual
Kira Yakubov Ploshansky (31:06):
of being on the highway, of just
like, there's an express lane,and there's another lane and
you're both going in the samedirection, but you're on a
different level, and you can'teven see each other, but you
have to trust that it's stillgoing towards the same end goal,
or the same destination, justpopped up for me thinking about
that, because it's different,but you're trying to get to the
(31:26):
same place together.
Lindsay Bauer (31:28):
Yeah, yeah. And I don't know why that makes me
think of, you know, take griefout of it. Like, when you meet
somebody, you don't know whatthe rest of your lives are going
to look like, you know, you finda partner, and you love these
qualities about them. And you'recompatible. And maybe you've
(31:50):
gone through a couple of thingsbefore you, you know, you get
married or totally committed toeach other. But then life might
throw you some of the darkestheaviest things, and you didn't
know how your partner wouldrespond, you didn't know how
you're going to respond in thosesituations. So I always bring
that up, too. I'm kind of like,look like you're learning each
(32:11):
other over again, in this grief,and open yourselves up to that,
you know, kind of create acuriousness about your partner
and yourself during this time.
And that can kind of like anopen mind. And that can that can
bring some lightness and somesoftness, which is really
important during that
Kira Yakubov Ploshansky (32:30):
I think that's such a, it's such a good
point. Such a powerful way tothink about that. Because
sometimes we might think like,oh, I don't even know who you
are, or I don't know who I amanymore, or, you know, you don't
recognize each other. Likesomehow you were duped. But no,
we don't know how we're going tobe in a situation we might, you
know, hypothesize, we mightassume based on our past
(32:53):
experiences. But we really,truly don't know until we're
there. Right. So I like that. Ilike that you bring that up to
point out to people too. Yeah.
Yeah. So seems like there is.
And I've heard this a lot withsome of my clients that there's
almost like this struggle of,you know, when I'm grieving or
(33:13):
when I'm sad, or something badhappens. I don't feel like I'm
allowed to also feel joy, or tobe happy or to experience these
good things. Because this sadthing has happened, like, is
that fair? Or is that okay?
Relic? Is there space for all ofthis, especially in couples
therapy, when maybe one personis a little further down the
(33:35):
line in their grieving process,or just at that point where
they're open to having more joy?
Kind of, if you've been able tokind of help couples, like
reframe that or allow them tolike have more of these intimate
moments where the connection ismore light and not as serious,
(33:55):
huh?
Lindsay Bauer (33:57):
Yeah. So when you were saying that I was kind of
going personally back to when mypartner and I, we were going
through our infertilitystruggles, which had a lot of
grief associated with it. He soyou are kind of saying like, one
might be further along like thatexpress lane. But it's not, you
(34:19):
know, not just like in terms ofwhere we are in our healing
process, but how we heal. So hegot his healing as an extrovert,
very socially, and like goingout and being around people. Me
I got my healing from wanting tostay in. I'm very introverted
and kind of like, like reservingreflecting, going inward and,
(34:44):
and there were times that I waslike, Whoa, by you going out.
You're kind of abandoning me.
And he said, I'm not abandoningyou. I need to also go take care
of myself. And so that open lineof communication, you know, I
feel I, I feel abandoned whenyou go out and are socializing.
But the moment he said, Yeah,but socializing is helping me
(35:07):
heal, it did allow me to kind ofstep back and say, Oh, he
deserves to heal, too and hisway, not just my way. So that's
a big component is helpingcouples individually understand
what works for them. Becauselike we were saying, this is a
new world, right? This is a newprocess that we need to take on.
(35:29):
And then how do we accept theway our partner is going to go
through it? So a little bit ofbalance in there, my partner has
to heal. But we also have tofind a way to heal together, and
what will that look like?
Kira Yakubov Ploshansky (35:44):
I appreciate you sharing that.
Thank you. I know that's not aneasy part of our lives to
vulnerability to bring through.
So thank you for sharing thatpersonal experience. Yeah. So
Lindsay, I know that we couldprobably talk about this for
much longer, so maybe we'll haveyou back again for another
episode for something more indepth. But is there anything new
coming up in your practiceprofessionally in your life that
(36:08):
you want to share with thelisteners?
Lindsay Bauer (36:11):
Um, you know, I wish that I could say that, that
I was hosting like a retreat. Imean, all of that is coming.
It's just there's no set date. Ihave a lot of ideas. I did just
work on my website. So mywebsite is now new and polished.
It's beautiful. I love it. Andactually, it's funny, we were
(36:33):
talking about grief in couples,I actually have a blog up about
that. So if you head to mywebsite, and you go to the blog
section, you can find that so ifyou wanted a little bit more
detail, or sometimes being ableto read that can be helpful. But
yeah, I know in March, I will bedoing a short yoga segment with
(36:57):
retreat. It's for new moms postpostpartum moms. So it's kind of
like a retreat for new moms togo to. And there are two
psychologists, I believe, whoare hosting more details in the
future. It's very new. But yeah,that's kind of what yoga ologies
(37:19):
got coming up.
Kira Yakubov Ploshansky (37:20):
That's awesome. Is this a virtual
retreat or in person? No, it'sin person in Conshohocken. Oh,
nice. Wonderful.
Lindsay Bauer (37:27):
Yes. Excited.
Yeah. Yeah.
Kira Yakubov Ploshansky (37:29):
And so your website is your yoga
ology.com It
Lindsay Bauer (37:33):
is not. I want it to be yoga ology comm working on
it. But right now, the domain isLindsay Bauer, M F t.com.
Kira Yakubov Ploshansk (37:42):
Awesome, okay. And we'll put that in the
show notes for everybody to goto. And that's how they can
reach out to you if they want towork with you. Whether it's for
individual couples therapy, orany kind of yoga or any of these
retreats coming up in thefuture.
Lindsay Bauer (37:54):
Absolutely. Yes.
On the website, there are plentyof ways to contact me phone
email, I even have a book a freeconsultation, which is very,
very nice. Like sometimes peoplelike let me just jump to that
piece. I don't want to do allthe emailing. I want my 15
minute consultation right now.
Yeah.
Kira Yakubov Ploshansk (38:14):
Perfect.
onesie. Thank you so much forbeing on with us. This was
awesome to talk with you andlearn more about some of your
insights and expertise.
Lindsay Bauer (38:22):
Thanks, Kara. I appreciate it.
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