January 3, 2024 • 36 mins
🌟In this episode, delve into the world of therapy, personality tests, and couples work with Caitlin Harrison, a Marriage and Family Therapist.
Explore the impact of religious trauma on mental health, the intricacies of EMDR therapy, and the application of therapy models like Internal Family Systems and the Gottman method. Gain insights into navigating childhood wounds, anxiety, and trauma.
❤️🩹Join us for candid conversations about personal growth, healing, and the therapeutic journey.
Check out the rest of the Heal Your Roots Podcast episodes at our website.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Kira Yakubov Ploshansky (00:00):
Welcome back to Heal Your Roots Podcast.
(00:02):
On today's episode we haveCaitlin Harrison Marriage and
Family Therapist and newestmember of our team Kailyn shares
how she uses EMDR to help treattrauma, specifically religious
trauma, family wounds andupbringing and her work with
couples. You're not going towant to miss this episode.
Please remember to like, share,and subscribe. Welcome back to
(00:22):
Heal Your Roots Podcast. I'm soexcited for today's guest. She
is one of our newest therapistsat the practice. Caitlyn
Harrison Marriage and FamilyTherapist. Caitlin, thank you so
much for joining us today.
Caitlin Harrison (00:34):
I'm excited to be here excited to get started
with the practice to awesome.
Kira Yakubov Ploshansky (00:40):
So we always start these episodes with
really diving into the therapistbackground. So if you can kind
of share what made you become atherapist and kind of your
journey along that way.
Caitlin Harrison (00:50):
Yeah, so marriage and family in
particular, I sought that outfrom a master's program because,
for me, that's when I saw a lotof my just growth in life. And
that's when I was able to reallylike kind of discover who I am.
And what's important to me. Andso what I mean by that is when I
(01:12):
was able to learn more about myfamily of origin, learn more
about what I carried from how myparents raised me from how being
an oldest child affected me, andhow I might be even carrying
some of my own, my own anxietymay be carried from my family in
generations past, it kind of, itkind of blew my mind and kind of
(01:34):
took a lid off of me that I hadon for a long time. And so
that's what gave me my passionfor this field in the first
place. And that's what gave methe passion to seek it out. So
Kira Yakubov Ploshansky (01:45):
that's awesome. That's it's funny,
because I also had thatexperience when I was going in
for grad school with likecounseling. I was like, oh,
let's try marriage and familybecause I feel like it's pretty
broad enough. You can work withkids, couples, families. And
then as I was going throughthese classes, too, I'm like, Oh
my God, our family, and ourrelationships, and different
generations shapes so much ofkind of who we are and how we
(02:09):
see the world and everything. Soit definitely makes sense that
that kind of like solidified itfor you as well. Absolutely.
Yeah. What made you want to getinto therapy or psychology in
the first place if you don'tmind sharing?
Caitlin Harrison (02:24):
Yeah, so like I said, therapy and self
discovery and digging into like,Okay, I have this, this anxiety
or these feelings that areholding me back. And where is
this all coming from and justtalking about it over and over
again, with family and talkingabout it with friends wasn't
getting me enough past it. Andso therapy for me, it was one of
(02:48):
the most important likeinstrumental parts of moving me
forward in my mental healthjourney. Um, and aside from
that, I've just always been thekind of person that loves to
study how the human brain worksand human behavior and
understand why we do what we doand personalities, I was always
(03:09):
into, like Enneagram Myers,doing anything I could to learn
about, like, who am I and whoare you and so, I always kind of
had that bend anyway, so yeah,
Kira Yakubov Ploshansky (03:20):
that's awesome. I used to love those
personality tests. I madeeveryone take the Myers Briggs
Do you know what your, yourpersonality like? The combo?
combo is? Or if you feelcomfortable sharing? Yeah,
Caitlin Harrison (03:32):
yeah. So I'm very borderline, introvert
extrovert. So I always scorelike very fine. Like lying
between those two. I would saypersonally, I lean more towards
that extrovert. So that'd be theE and then S. So sensor. F for
feeling and then j so yeah,
Kira Yakubov Ploshansky (03:54):
ESF J.
I think one of my best friendsis that
Caitlin Harrison (03:57):
Yep, that's it. Yeah. It's it's supposed to
be like the nurturer. There'sall those different names for
it. Yeah, I was all into thatall growing up. And then the
Enneagram when that was big,which I think it still is, but
always into that stuff. Yeah, inmy family members, get into it,
too.
Kira Yakubov Ploshansky (04:15):
Yeah, I'm the INFJ. I remember when I
first met, my husband was like,Here, take this test. Give me
the results. I can readeverything about you. That's so
funny. And so now that you knowyou've graduated and everything,
who do you enjoy working with?
Like, what would you say is yourspecialty or area of expertise
that you want to continuegrowing in? Yeah,
Caitlin Harrison (04:37):
I love working with couples couples work is so
near and dear and important tome. So whatever that looks like,
you know, I think every couplecomes in with something a little
bit different. It could besexual issues that you're having
in your relationship, or itcould be we're mostly happy but
(04:58):
this argument always comes upand we want to finally get
through it, or it could be like,everything's, Everything's bad.
We've lost the spark, and wedon't know how to get it back.
But we want to fight for it.
Whatever couples are comingwith, I love working with
couples, and then individuals,and individuals who are working
(05:18):
through their own childhoodwounds, people who are
struggling with anxiety and howto cope with that, how to work
through it, how to find what'striggering you, and how to
manage that. And then alsopeople suffering from trauma. So
I have an EMDR training, thatreally helped me work with folks
(05:42):
who are struggling with PTSD,and even just trauma symptoms,
especially those with religioustrauma. I've done a lot of
research and trainings on peoplewho are struggling with very
strict upbringings, or however,religion had could have harmed
you, or faith transitions. Soyeah, those are that's, that's
(06:08):
the ideal client that I tend towork with.
Kira Yakubov Ploshansky (06:13):
There's like a nice wide range. But
there's also a lot of overlap Isee there, as well, especially
thinking about like thosechildhood wounds, or even like
that cultural religious aspect,how that might show up in a
relationship as well withourselves with a partner, other
family members. So it seems likewide spectrum, but also specific
pieces in between all of it aswell. Mm hmm. And so I, you
(06:38):
know, we don't have a lot ofguests who talk about religious
trauma, and I've never reallyworked with that specifically,
would you mind sharing a littlebit more about that? Because I
think that might be interestingfor audience members to hear as
well.
Caitlin Harrison (06:53):
Yeah, absolutely, it can come with all
shapes and sizes. Um, when itcomes to religious trauma, a lot
of folks a lot of us, wereraised with a certain set of
beliefs and expectations thatour parents passed down to us,
or just your culture passed downto you to write this expectation
(07:16):
of having a certain set ofvalues. And when you start to
question those, or you were oncevery solidly in that same camp,
and then you start to wonder,Oh, maybe that doesn't quite
align with me anymore. Maybe itused to, and it doesn't. Now, it
can really cause a lot of shiftsin your internal world. Issues
(07:38):
like self trust, come up a lot.
Learning how to trust yourselfis really hard when you shift
your belief system. And when youhave parents or a culture that's
telling you don't trustyourself, trust this being that
you don't believe in himanymore, or your your sexual
identity, like, maybe yourreligion and the belief system
(08:06):
that you grew up in, told youthat your sexuality wasn't
valid, or your gender wasn'tvalid, that can cause a lot of
pain and trauma up in throughadulthood. That is really
important to work through inorder to experience freedom. So
Kira Yakubov Ploshansky (08:23):
wow, yeah, that's really powerful.
Because it's this, our entirekind of, it's like a paradigm
shift, right? When you kind ofgo away from everything you've
known or learned, and all thesebeliefs, everyone around you,
too, I imagine feeling almostlike a black sheep, or like,
being ostracized, if it's notthe same, or your family might
look at you differently. Yeah,
Caitlin Harrison (08:46):
if you were told your whole life that if you
love that person, you're gonnago to a fiery pit. What kinds of
things is that gonna trigger foryou into your adulthood, right,
if you hadn't internalized thatbelief ever since you were too
young, to be able to decide ifthat was true or not. And you
(09:07):
are going to accept that belief.
So it comes in all comes in allshapes and sizes, and it's it's
hard core identity stuff to workthrough. So I think it's really
important even to raiseawareness around that topic. A
lot of people when they find outreligious trauma is the thing,
that's what I'm experiencing.
And it's normal. Even that'sjust like a huge piece of the
(09:29):
work like other people have thistoo, you know, yeah. And
something
Kira Yakubov Ploshansky (09:35):
you said is teaching people to trust
themselves, because they've beentaught to trust something
external for so long. I can'timagine how much of like a
disconnect that must be.
Especially like in your body ofbeing able to like recognize,
like, what am I experiencing? Isthis valid? Is this real or my
listening to other people totell me this information?
Caitlin Harrison (09:57):
Yeah, like am I am I even supposed to connect
to my body my therapist istelling me I should connect to
my body and trust my gut andknow what my feelings are. And
that those are importantinformation. When the first
however many years of my life,or even into adulthood, you
could take on a religious beliefsystem into your adult in your
(10:19):
adulthood and then switch laterin adulthood. Right? When when
that belief system told me, Ishould deny all of that you're
faced with this cognitivedissonance, right? That's the
term that we use in therapy alot like, what am I true to what
do I think is true anymore. Andit's a very disorienting
(10:41):
feeling. And it helps so much tohave someone with training in
that, that can like guide youthrough those feelings that can
even just like validate thatexperience and explain a little
bit of it and give you languageto make sense of it. So
Kira Yakubov Ploshansky (10:59):
it's really powerful. What made you
like what pulled you intolearning more about that helping
people through this particulartype of trauma?
Caitlin Harrison (11:11):
I think when you ask a lot of therapists,
that is because you havepersonal experience, navigating
those kinds of issues. So I'mpretty open about that to myself
is that it's been a lot of mywork is just that deconstruction
process that we all go throughfrom childhood to adulthood, and
(11:32):
when it is those, like coreheart value issues that I used
to hold this value so deeply.
And now I'm questioning thisvalue. My whole support system
is telling me not to, butsomething in me won't let me not
question it. It's, it was a it'sa, it's a hard, honestly,
throughout the rest of yourlife. It's hard to navigate,
(11:54):
that kind of transition. But itmakes it so much easier when for
me when I had words to put to itwhen I had the mindfulness to
know this is what's happeninginside of me right now. I feel
so disoriented right now, Idon't know who I am right now.
Because my whole body's tellingme stay safe. Don't question
(12:16):
this. Don't wonder about this.
And so it's just been aprivilege for me to be able to
learn all of this informationabout religious trauma and about
how changing faiths or losing afaith as some communities, and
(12:39):
I'd say it affects youinternally. But it's also been a
privilege to work with clientsthrough that.
Kira Yakubov Ploshansky (12:47):
Thank you for sharing that. I
appreciate it. I know it'svulnerable work, right. It's
really deep and personal. So Ireally appreciate you sharing
that piece of yourself.
Caitlin Harrison (12:58):
Absolutely.
Kira Yakubov Ploshansky (13:00):
And so I know, that's definitely a big
part. Is that something that Iknow, you said you've had
training in EMDR that you usewith clients to religious
trauma? Or is that somethingthat you use for other types of
trauma? Or is it kind of like,regardless of the type of trauma
EMDR is going to be like areally great go to?
Caitlin Harrison (13:18):
Yeah, so I love EMDR. Because sometimes,
talking through things, and justgetting insight about like why
this affected you so much, isvery effective. Sometimes just
having one of those lightbulbmoments in therapy, like, Oh,
this is why I've been believingthis, my uncle said this to me
when I was younger, and now Ican let myself free of that. But
(13:41):
sometimes you can talk it todeath, and it doesn't go away
and you still have thenightmares, you still have the
panic attacks, whatever thatmight look like. And that
anxiety shows up for you ortrauma symptoms show up for you.
And EMDR actually kind of justbypasses the whole talk therapy,
(14:05):
we call it a bottom up approach.
So a top down approach is I talkabout it, I use my brain to make
sense of it. And then eventuallymy symptoms fall in line with
what my brain is thinking. Butif symptoms are so intense, and
talking about it's not helpingengaging my brain and like why
this is happening isn't workingEMDR works from the bottom up.
(14:26):
So it can actually access theparts of your brain that are
holding that trauma and causingyour body so much distress and
go from the bottom up and yourbrain can file and make sense of
the things that it hadn't beenable to file and make sense of
yet. Through EMDR and so it canbe the word trauma can be
(14:50):
confusing, because I think a lotof us are like oh I don't think
I've ever you know really beenthrough trauma. I don't have no
nightmares, I don't have youknow, but we've all been
traumatized at some point in ourlife, where something has
impacted us negatively our selfesteem or our just how we move
(15:11):
through relationships, like Idon't feel safe in this
relationship to advocate formyself, that would be in my
world considered a trauma, Idon't feel safe to be my
authentic self all of the time,that would indicate to me you
experience something that youweren't supposed to experience.
(15:31):
So MDR can help with all sortsof things like that, like I have
too much stress at work, I wantto process that EMDR can help
with relieve some of thatstress. So, yeah, EMDR works
with all types of trauma andreligious trauma or stress at
work, you name it's a reallypowerful modality. And
Kira Yakubov Ploshansky (15:56):
I know it's pretty intense, right?
Like, I know, it's evidencebased, like there's a lot of
scientific research behind it.
And it can be an intenseexperience for people. And I
think that's like, kind of like,not a scare something to scare
people away, but more of awarning, right? Like, they can
kind of recognize what theymight be getting into. But I'm
sure, right, if someone'sapproaching this, the therapist
is gonna go through the processof explaining it what to expect
(16:19):
when we ease into it, right, sothat the client is aware of what
they're signing up for. Yeah,
Caitlin Harrison (16:29):
every therapist is a little bit
different how they move throughthe steps of EMDR, I spent a lot
of time in those first twosteps, which are making sure
that the client has theresources that they need to be
able to walk through the nextseveral wherever reprocessing,
we're bringing up old memories,we are talking about the things
(16:51):
that are really difficult totalk about, I make sure I spend
a lot of time making sure thatmy clients have the skills and
the tools necessary to supportthemselves through those final
stages, so that they can besuccessful rather than re
traumatizing. Um, and I thinkthat EMDR also has this air
(17:15):
about it where people are like,this is kind of like woowoo
magic, or something like that.
And it's, it's really not that Ithink that that can be kind of
like I don't get what'shappening. And it's true, you
really don't because it is thatbottom up approach. We are going
down into your emotions downinto your body down into your
brain. And it's if you're a verycerebral person, like myself,
(17:38):
honestly, it can be kind of yourskeptical side can come out.
Like what kind of magic do youthink you're doing? But it's
really not anything. You're notbeing hypnotized? You're not
getting some kind of spiritualseance. It's just it's a
scientific evidence based modelthat works. And sure it has some
(18:00):
mystery to it. But it's it's notwoowoo I think is the best word
I've heard. To describe whatit's not even though it can seem
like that sometimes.
Kira Yakubov Ploshansky (18:15):
That's really funny that you mentioned
it like that, because I there'slike different parts of me
right. And I think we'll talkabout that type of method later
as well. But a part of me thatis kind of more logical and
rational wants to see things forthe science and another
spiritual part. And thespiritual part never saw EMDR as
woowoo. But I can imagine howsome people might if it's if
(18:39):
they are a lot more cognitiveand want to think about like all
the steps and what's happeningand how does it work and how I'm
experiencing it. But you arebasically like there's right,
it's either you have thesebuzzers or something moving in
front of your face, right, likethere's this body connection to
the story that you're retelling,to kind of rewire that in your
body. Right? I'm getting that inyour nervous system.
Caitlin Harrison (19:03):
Yeah, yeah, I think things that are quote
unquote woowoo can be attractiveto some and not attractive.
Yeah. And so I think it'simportant for me to kind of put
that Asterix for those peoplethat are more skeptical and
wondering, like, What is shetrying to do when she's moving
her fingers? I always like toadd that that disclaimer,
(19:25):
because it does have this airabout it, or maybe it's
intimidating. And so I just liketo talk to that crowd that it's
not some magical thing where I'mlike, accessing some point, it's
just, it's just processing youcan trust yourself through it.
It's it works. You know, itreally, it really works. So some
(19:49):
people that could be reallyexciting and magical and
attractive. For some it could,it could be a little bit of a
Kira Yakubov Ploshansky (19:59):
a turn off I'm sure just depends how
it's packaged up right and howpeople view it.
Caitlin Harrison (20:04):
Exactly.
Kira Yakubov Ploshansk (20:06):
Speaking of parts, so I know that just
from when we spoke before thatyou also have had some training
or you like to work withinternal family systems. So I'm
sure the listeners probablydon't know what that is, unless
they're a therapist, if you canshare a little bit about what
that is and how you use thatapproach with clients, because I
love that approach. Yes.
Caitlin Harrison (20:29):
So internal family systems is very powerful
as well. So it helps you makesense of your internal world. So
how I see it, how internalfamilies would see the internal
experiences that were all madeup of parts of us. So you've
(20:49):
probably even said yourself,like a part of me really wants
to go to that picnic. Today, nopart of me just wants to stay at
home in my sweatpants. So there,you're naming two parts of you,
that want two very differentthings. And so EMDR would just
or ifs would help us kind ofname those parts and make sense
(21:12):
of those parts. So one part ofme really wants a promotion. One
part of me doesn't one part ofme really wants to have kids,
one part of me doesn't.
Sometimes I feel reallyconfident in sharing myself. And
other times, I can't put wordstogether to say what I want or
how I'm feeling. So ifs helps usget really curious about what
(21:33):
those feelings and thoughts are,what parts of ourselves come up
in certain settings, it helps usunderstand why they're coming up
to put ourselves back in chargeof all of these parts of us. So
we all have a true self that cansort of guide all of these parts
(21:55):
that developed through all ofour experiences and our
childhood. And it's it's reallypowerful language, it's really
powerful to be in touch with,Oh, my anxious part is coming
out. And I know exactly whatthat part of me needs. In order
to keep it at bay, I knowexactly what job to give it. So
(22:19):
that it's actually helping meBelieve it or not, my anxious
part can help me, instead ofhold me back from what I really
want.
Kira Yakubov Ploshansky (22:31):
Oh, that I like to wear. So I don't
know if this is necessarily anifs intervention or technique.
But I like to do this withclients who have a lot of
anxiety or a lot of worry andstress, like this internal
dialogue that just does not stopis kind of like are like, Let's
separate a little bit. Right?
How old do you think that thisvoice is? Giving that voice and
(22:53):
age and name and the function?
Right? Like, because all ofthese roles serve something to
help us? Right? They all loveus. They all want to do
something good. They're just maynot be great at it, or maybe
maladaptive, but their functionand purpose is to do something
helpful. So what do we think thepurpose is of that voice? And I
(23:17):
think the more people name itand give it an age, and they can
visualize it, it helps like,Alright, so let's say for
example, Stacy's 12. Andwhenever this comes up, Stacy
always starts getting reallyupset. Right? So what is she
looking for? She needsattention, right? Or she's
scared. So it's kind of likeworking with that other part of
(23:39):
us and leaning into instead oftrying to shut it down or being
upset or being even angry withourselves, or having that part
of us. Yeah.
Caitlin Harrison (23:48):
Like, how many times has your partner left a
dish in the sink, and your angeris triggered? You're like, they
don't care about me, you havethese whole stories in your head
about why they're the most evilperson and they don't care about
you anymore. And you'vecompletely lost the spark. And
(24:13):
they're not who they used to bebecause you saw a mulligan. And
it happens to all of us, right?
But I think that ifs can give usjust language like oh my my
angry my angry parts coming up.
I can get curious about myanger. Oh, yeah, my dad used to
yell at me when I left themagain this think and you know,
(24:35):
it always connects back tosomething and it's really helps
build self awareness and alsocan be so what you were saying
earlier, kind of separatingyourself from your anxiety or
your anger or whatever it mightbe for you. Gives you a lot of
relief as well. Like I am not myanger. I'm not my anxiety. That
(24:57):
is a part of me. That makes alot of sense why It's here. And
it's trying to help. And it justgives you a little bit more
space and a little bit morepower. Back to say, that's not
all of me. That's just a part ofme. Absolutely.
Kira Yakubov Ploshansky (25:12):
And I think it helps build my
compassion and empathy withyourself too. Totally. do you
how do you like to sprinkle thatin like is that for particular
clients with presenting issuesthat you like to use ifs or just
like, anytime it comes up whensomeone is like really deep into
their emotions or experiencingsomething over and over again?
(25:33):
Yeah,
Caitlin Harrison (25:34):
I think every client's a little bit different.
I'm always using it no matterwhat client I'm working with,
but it can look different basedon which client I'm working
with. Some people really like toname their parts, and they
really like to spend a lot oftime diving into like guided
imagery and the metaphors andsome clients are just they don't
(25:57):
want to spend too much time.
Flowering up the language andthey just like, okay, yeah, I
have an anxious part. How do Iregulate it? Yeah, I'm always
using it. But that looksdifferent, depending on the
client, always using thelanguage and the concepts
though.
Kira Yakubov Ploshansky (26:19):
So like we said, reframing and
repackaging it right, likecatering to how the client wants
to use this to make sure itmakes sense for them.
Caitlin Harrison (26:27):
Absolutely.
Kira Yakubov Ploshansky (26:29):
And so for a couples therapy, I know
you've gone through some Gottmantreatment or not treatment
training. Can you share a littlebit about because I know there's
like three different levels ofthe Gottman method. I love the
Gottman research I love to useuse this with my couples all the
time. How that shows up for youin sessions with couples. Yeah.
Caitlin Harrison (26:51):
So John and Julie Gottman, I'm level one
trained in their, in theirmethod. And how it shows up a
lot of times is in thepsychoeducation piece. So that's
just like teaching clients aboutwhat works in relationships, and
what doesn't work inrelationships, how to say things
(27:11):
in order to get what you'reactually wanting and communicate
what you actually want to say,kind of highlight some of the
bad habits or cycles thatcouples have gotten into that
might not be getting them wherethey want to be getting in their
relationship. So Gottman hashelped put so much research in
language to phenomenons thathappen in intimate
(27:34):
relationships, and also actuallylike parent child relationships,
too. So he does a lot of like coparenting work. And so I put a
lot of that into when we'retalking about parenting styles
or parenting techniques withcouples. And then also sue
Johnson's work, EmotionallyFocused Therapy, she's really
(27:55):
influenced my work with couplesas well. A lot of times, our
issues are stemming fromemotional ruptures, like kind of
losing trust or experiencinghurt or pain, whether that's in
our past from our partner, andreconnecting emotionally, can
be, honestly a lot of times allthat you need in order to move
(28:16):
through a lot of the issues thatyou're facing as a couple,
whether it be sex,communication, parenting,
understanding each other andyourself is so powerful and to
really gives a lot of structureand techniques for helping
couples do that.
Kira Yakubov Ploshansky (28:33):
I love Sue Johnson. I saw her in her
conference before I was like,Oh, this is so cool.
Caitlin Harrison (28:37):
Oh, that's awesome. Yeah, it should be so
small but mighty. Yes.
Kira Yakubov Ploshansky (28:41):
And all this she was showing her cases
of like working through it withcouples and like, she does a lot
of like, in the moment, right? Ithink there's different
therapies where we talk about,like, gaining insight and, you
know, rehashing or reenactingthings with her, it's like very
right now. Like, what is comingup for you as their, you know,
your partner is saying this andlike, where are you feeling
this? And how is this you know,showing up? So I think it's
(29:03):
awesome to kind of think aboutthe different stages of
processing and working throughthings with couples, is there's
going to be you know,understanding their past and
history and their, you know,their love story, teaching them
like you were saying with theGottman method of like things
that have not worked. And thenlike right now, right here,
what's going on between the twoof you? Yeah,
Caitlin Harrison (29:25):
she has a way and I think this is a sign of
like the best therapist, she hasa way of calling you out while
making you feel like so held inlove. And I mean, I've never
experienced her as a therapy feethat I'm watching Yeah, with
her. I think that's, that is sopowerful when your therapists
(29:45):
can know you see you make youfeel so cared for and
understood, but also they're notgonna let you get away with that
thing. You know, they're gonnaown what's yours, right? Yeah,
Kira Yakubov Ploshansky (29:58):
she definitely has a way of do And
that's, that's a tough balance,especially when you have
different personalities in theroom. And it's really hard for
couples but anybody right to beheld accountable in a moment,
like woof that? I don't know, Idon't like the way that feels
like what part of you, right? Ifwe're talking I have a part of
us coming up to want to bedefensive, or to not acknowledge
(30:21):
this right. But I think I saw usin a different kind of think it
was Terry real. He talked aboutholding this like loving
sternness. Right. Foraccountability, it's like, you
have to know that you're not abad person, but what you're
doing is not helpful, or it'snot healthy. So you have to be
(30:41):
able to hold both of thosethings in order to change and
take accountability. Yep,
Caitlin Harrison (30:47):
I think that's something that all all of the
models that we've talked abouttoday share in common that you
can look at what you might call,like bad behaviors or bad
symptoms. With so much love andcompassion and understanding for
yourself, while still holdingyourself accountable for
(31:09):
materials you want and who youreally want to be and making
sure that you're someone that'scongruent with who you're what
your values are as a person.
Kira Yakubov Plosha (31:17):
Absolutely.
And it's tough to hold both ofthose wrecks, I think a lot of
times our emotions arecontradictory. What we
experienced the majority of thetime is a contradictory
experience. But that's okay.
Like, that's normal, right? Youdon't have to pick one or the
other like, doesn't make you abad person if you do X, Y, and
Z, but you have to own up to X,Y, and Z and have compassion for
(31:38):
yourself, and be able to hearyour partner say how it impacts
them. All of that is a lot ofwork, but totally worth it to
feel that connection and lovewith your partner and with
yourself.
Caitlin Harrison (31:51):
Yeah, absolutely.
Kira Yakubov Ploshansky (31:55):
Is there any other like presenting
issue or population that wemight not have covered that you
really enjoy working with?
Caitlin Harrison (32:03):
I think that exploring so a lot of a lot of
the things we have touched onthis quite a bit, but exploring
your childhood wounds is a bigpassion of mine. So something
else that all of these modelsshare in common is this idea
that the past sins in thepresent. So when you are
(32:27):
experiencing anxiety, some kindof distress in your body, I use
the word anxiety a lot justbecause I use that as like a
umbrella term for for discomfortin your body, things are going
in the way that you want it tobe going I don't mean like
clinical diagnosis anxiety. And,and it's typically something
(32:48):
that we can look back and seehow the past is living in your
present. So exploring childhoodwounding in general, maybe that
is religious trauma, maybe thatis mental health in your family,
maybe addiction in your family.
That's a big passion of mine.
And so just kind of making senseof that is a is something I
(33:13):
think we can all benefit from,
Kira Yakubov Ploshansky (33:15):
for sure. I love looking back at
people's families. I think Italked about this in a different
episode somebody else but Ialways start with a genogram
with clients. Because I love tojust see like the whole family
who was in your life growing uplike, relatives, right? Like,
what kind of relationship didyou have with them? Especially
if there's other siblings in thehome? Like, what role do you
(33:36):
feel like you played or eachsibling played, because everyone
kind of fell into a little bitof a box sometimes, especially,
you know, our parents are tryingto do the best that they can.
And we pick up things as kidspretty quickly without realizing
it that if I do X, Y and Z, Iwill get this result. So I'm
going to be conditioned to havethis personality trait or show
(33:57):
up this particular way. And thenlater in life, I might want to
separate myself from that, butit feels like it's stuck on me
like it's my identity now.
Caitlin Harrison (34:06):
Yeah, it's a confusing, confusing process to
think, oh, wow, I was alwaysreally into sports. Because that
person in my life really likesports. And now sports was my
whole identity. And I don't knowif I care about it. But I think
I do you know what I was reallyjust making sense of where that
came from where it came fromthat it's okay that it came from
(34:28):
somebody you know, yeah, justmaking sense of it all, I think
is so important. And gives youso much power in your daily life
and in your relationships. Yeah.
Kira Yakubov Ploshansky (34:41):
And I love like, what I'm getting from
you is that you help people kindof choose, is this something
that I want to keep with me?
Right? A lot of it is likeprocessing bring awareness
insight. And then it's like nowyou have this information. What
do you want to do with this? Isthis feel authentic to you? Do
you want to continue in thisway? Does this still match up to
how you You see the world andwant to be in the world. So I
(35:01):
love that I'm hearing like youalso like, kind of help them
have that choice and decide whatfeels right for them too. Yeah,
that's right. That's awesome. SoI really appreciate you joining,
you have a wealth of knowledgeand you just graduated. But you
would think that you've been atherapist for over a decade. So
I think that a lot of yourclients and future clients are
(35:24):
going to have a great experiencewith you really being seen and
having all of this insight andtraining that you've gone
through to help people throughthis journey. So is there
anything you want to share withthe listeners before we end or
anything new that's coming upfor you?
Caitlin Harrison (35:42):
Yeah, I am just really excited. I'm new to
Pennsylvania. So I'm so excitedto be here. I already have
fallen in love with I'm inPittsburgh, I'm already falling
in love with the city ofbridges, and just the culture
and the people here. So I'mexcited to work with you all.
And I'm excited to be here atheal your roots and already feel
(36:07):
so much support and opennessfrom the team here.
Kira Yakubov Ploshansky (36:11):
It's wonderful to hear. Thank you.
I'm excited to have you join ourteam. If anyone is interested in
working with Caitlin, you canhead over to our website, heal
your roots wellness.com schedulea consultation, and we'll see if
it's a good fit. Galen, thankyou so much for being on today
and sharing all your informationand insight with us.
Caitlin Harrison (36:29):
Thank you.
Kira Yakubov Ploshansky (36:31):
If you've enjoyed this episode,
please like, share andsubscribe. Otherwise it's a wrap
Welcome back to Heal Your Roots Podcast.
(00:02):
On today's episode we haveCaitlin Harrison Marriage and
Family Therapist and newestmember of our team Kailyn shares
how she uses EMDR to help treattrauma, specifically religious
trauma, family wounds andupbringing and her work with
couples. You're not going towant to miss this episode.
Please remember to like, share,and subscribe. Welcome back to
(00:22):
Heal Your Roots Podcast. I'm soexcited for today's guest. She
is one of our newest therapistsat the practice. Caitlyn
Harrison Marriage and FamilyTherapist. Caitlin, thank you so
much for joining us today.
Caitlin Harrison (00:34):
I'm excited to be here excited to get started
with the practice to awesome.
Kira Yakubov Ploshansky (00:40):
So we always start these episodes with
really diving into the therapistbackground. So if you can kind
of share what made you become atherapist and kind of your
journey along that way.
Caitlin Harrison (00:50):
Yeah, so marriage and family in
particular, I sought that outfrom a master's program because,
for me, that's when I saw a lotof my just growth in life. And
that's when I was able to reallylike kind of discover who I am.
And what's important to me. Andso what I mean by that is when I
(01:12):
was able to learn more about myfamily of origin, learn more
about what I carried from how myparents raised me from how being
an oldest child affected me, andhow I might be even carrying
some of my own, my own anxietymay be carried from my family in
generations past, it kind of, itkind of blew my mind and kind of
(01:34):
took a lid off of me that I hadon for a long time. And so
that's what gave me my passionfor this field in the first
place. And that's what gave methe passion to seek it out. So
Kira Yakubov Ploshansky (01:45):
that's awesome. That's it's funny,
because I also had thatexperience when I was going in
for grad school with likecounseling. I was like, oh,
let's try marriage and familybecause I feel like it's pretty
broad enough. You can work withkids, couples, families. And
then as I was going throughthese classes, too, I'm like, Oh
my God, our family, and ourrelationships, and different
generations shapes so much ofkind of who we are and how we
(02:09):
see the world and everything. Soit definitely makes sense that
that kind of like solidified itfor you as well. Absolutely.
Yeah. What made you want to getinto therapy or psychology in
the first place if you don'tmind sharing?
Caitlin Harrison (02:24):
Yeah, so like I said, therapy and self
discovery and digging into like,Okay, I have this, this anxiety
or these feelings that areholding me back. And where is
this all coming from and justtalking about it over and over
again, with family and talkingabout it with friends wasn't
getting me enough past it. Andso therapy for me, it was one of
(02:48):
the most important likeinstrumental parts of moving me
forward in my mental healthjourney. Um, and aside from
that, I've just always been thekind of person that loves to
study how the human brain worksand human behavior and
understand why we do what we doand personalities, I was always
(03:09):
into, like Enneagram Myers,doing anything I could to learn
about, like, who am I and whoare you and so, I always kind of
had that bend anyway, so yeah,
Kira Yakubov Ploshansky (03:20):
that's awesome. I used to love those
personality tests. I madeeveryone take the Myers Briggs
Do you know what your, yourpersonality like? The combo?
combo is? Or if you feelcomfortable sharing? Yeah,
Caitlin Harrison (03:32):
yeah. So I'm very borderline, introvert
extrovert. So I always scorelike very fine. Like lying
between those two. I would saypersonally, I lean more towards
that extrovert. So that'd be theE and then S. So sensor. F for
feeling and then j so yeah,
Kira Yakubov Ploshansky (03:54):
ESF J.
I think one of my best friendsis that
Caitlin Harrison (03:57):
Yep, that's it. Yeah. It's it's supposed to
be like the nurturer. There'sall those different names for
it. Yeah, I was all into thatall growing up. And then the
Enneagram when that was big,which I think it still is, but
always into that stuff. Yeah, inmy family members, get into it,
too.
Kira Yakubov Ploshansky (04:15):
Yeah, I'm the INFJ. I remember when I
first met, my husband was like,Here, take this test. Give me
the results. I can readeverything about you. That's so
funny. And so now that you knowyou've graduated and everything,
who do you enjoy working with?
Like, what would you say is yourspecialty or area of expertise
that you want to continuegrowing in? Yeah,
Caitlin Harrison (04:37):
I love working with couples couples work is so
near and dear and important tome. So whatever that looks like,
you know, I think every couplecomes in with something a little
bit different. It could besexual issues that you're having
in your relationship, or itcould be we're mostly happy but
(04:58):
this argument always comes upand we want to finally get
through it, or it could be like,everything's, Everything's bad.
We've lost the spark, and wedon't know how to get it back.
But we want to fight for it.
Whatever couples are comingwith, I love working with
couples, and then individuals,and individuals who are working
(05:18):
through their own childhoodwounds, people who are
struggling with anxiety and howto cope with that, how to work
through it, how to find what'striggering you, and how to
manage that. And then alsopeople suffering from trauma. So
I have an EMDR training, thatreally helped me work with folks
(05:42):
who are struggling with PTSD,and even just trauma symptoms,
especially those with religioustrauma. I've done a lot of
research and trainings on peoplewho are struggling with very
strict upbringings, or however,religion had could have harmed
you, or faith transitions. Soyeah, those are that's, that's
(06:08):
the ideal client that I tend towork with.
Kira Yakubov Ploshansky (06:13):
There's like a nice wide range. But
there's also a lot of overlap Isee there, as well, especially
thinking about like thosechildhood wounds, or even like
that cultural religious aspect,how that might show up in a
relationship as well withourselves with a partner, other
family members. So it seems likewide spectrum, but also specific
pieces in between all of it aswell. Mm hmm. And so I, you
(06:38):
know, we don't have a lot ofguests who talk about religious
trauma, and I've never reallyworked with that specifically,
would you mind sharing a littlebit more about that? Because I
think that might be interestingfor audience members to hear as
well.
Caitlin Harrison (06:53):
Yeah, absolutely, it can come with all
shapes and sizes. Um, when itcomes to religious trauma, a lot
of folks a lot of us, wereraised with a certain set of
beliefs and expectations thatour parents passed down to us,
or just your culture passed downto you to write this expectation
(07:16):
of having a certain set ofvalues. And when you start to
question those, or you were oncevery solidly in that same camp,
and then you start to wonder,Oh, maybe that doesn't quite
align with me anymore. Maybe itused to, and it doesn't. Now, it
can really cause a lot of shiftsin your internal world. Issues
(07:38):
like self trust, come up a lot.
Learning how to trust yourselfis really hard when you shift
your belief system. And when youhave parents or a culture that's
telling you don't trustyourself, trust this being that
you don't believe in himanymore, or your your sexual
identity, like, maybe yourreligion and the belief system
(08:06):
that you grew up in, told youthat your sexuality wasn't
valid, or your gender wasn'tvalid, that can cause a lot of
pain and trauma up in throughadulthood. That is really
important to work through inorder to experience freedom. So
Kira Yakubov Ploshansky (08:23):
wow, yeah, that's really powerful.
Because it's this, our entirekind of, it's like a paradigm
shift, right? When you kind ofgo away from everything you've
known or learned, and all thesebeliefs, everyone around you,
too, I imagine feeling almostlike a black sheep, or like,
being ostracized, if it's notthe same, or your family might
look at you differently. Yeah,
Caitlin Harrison (08:46):
if you were told your whole life that if you
love that person, you're gonnago to a fiery pit. What kinds of
things is that gonna trigger foryou into your adulthood, right,
if you hadn't internalized thatbelief ever since you were too
young, to be able to decide ifthat was true or not. And you
(09:07):
are going to accept that belief.
So it comes in all comes in allshapes and sizes, and it's it's
hard core identity stuff to workthrough. So I think it's really
important even to raiseawareness around that topic. A
lot of people when they find outreligious trauma is the thing,
that's what I'm experiencing.
And it's normal. Even that'sjust like a huge piece of the
(09:29):
work like other people have thistoo, you know, yeah. And
something
Kira Yakubov Ploshansky (09:35):
you said is teaching people to trust
themselves, because they've beentaught to trust something
external for so long. I can'timagine how much of like a
disconnect that must be.
Especially like in your body ofbeing able to like recognize,
like, what am I experiencing? Isthis valid? Is this real or my
listening to other people totell me this information?
Caitlin Harrison (09:57):
Yeah, like am I am I even supposed to connect
to my body my therapist istelling me I should connect to
my body and trust my gut andknow what my feelings are. And
that those are importantinformation. When the first
however many years of my life,or even into adulthood, you
could take on a religious beliefsystem into your adult in your
(10:19):
adulthood and then switch laterin adulthood. Right? When when
that belief system told me, Ishould deny all of that you're
faced with this cognitivedissonance, right? That's the
term that we use in therapy alot like, what am I true to what
do I think is true anymore. Andit's a very disorienting
(10:41):
feeling. And it helps so much tohave someone with training in
that, that can like guide youthrough those feelings that can
even just like validate thatexperience and explain a little
bit of it and give you languageto make sense of it. So
Kira Yakubov Ploshansky (10:59):
it's really powerful. What made you
like what pulled you intolearning more about that helping
people through this particulartype of trauma?
Caitlin Harrison (11:11):
I think when you ask a lot of therapists,
that is because you havepersonal experience, navigating
those kinds of issues. So I'mpretty open about that to myself
is that it's been a lot of mywork is just that deconstruction
process that we all go throughfrom childhood to adulthood, and
(11:32):
when it is those, like coreheart value issues that I used
to hold this value so deeply.
And now I'm questioning thisvalue. My whole support system
is telling me not to, butsomething in me won't let me not
question it. It's, it was a it'sa, it's a hard, honestly,
throughout the rest of yourlife. It's hard to navigate,
(11:54):
that kind of transition. But itmakes it so much easier when for
me when I had words to put to itwhen I had the mindfulness to
know this is what's happeninginside of me right now. I feel
so disoriented right now, Idon't know who I am right now.
Because my whole body's tellingme stay safe. Don't question
(12:16):
this. Don't wonder about this.
And so it's just been aprivilege for me to be able to
learn all of this informationabout religious trauma and about
how changing faiths or losing afaith as some communities, and
(12:39):
I'd say it affects youinternally. But it's also been a
privilege to work with clientsthrough that.
Kira Yakubov Ploshansky (12:47):
Thank you for sharing that. I
appreciate it. I know it'svulnerable work, right. It's
really deep and personal. So Ireally appreciate you sharing
that piece of yourself.
Caitlin Harrison (12:58):
Absolutely.
Kira Yakubov Ploshansky (13:00):
And so I know, that's definitely a big
part. Is that something that Iknow, you said you've had
training in EMDR that you usewith clients to religious
trauma? Or is that somethingthat you use for other types of
trauma? Or is it kind of like,regardless of the type of trauma
EMDR is going to be like areally great go to?
Caitlin Harrison (13:18):
Yeah, so I love EMDR. Because sometimes,
talking through things, and justgetting insight about like why
this affected you so much, isvery effective. Sometimes just
having one of those lightbulbmoments in therapy, like, Oh,
this is why I've been believingthis, my uncle said this to me
when I was younger, and now Ican let myself free of that. But
(13:41):
sometimes you can talk it todeath, and it doesn't go away
and you still have thenightmares, you still have the
panic attacks, whatever thatmight look like. And that
anxiety shows up for you ortrauma symptoms show up for you.
And EMDR actually kind of justbypasses the whole talk therapy,
(14:05):
we call it a bottom up approach.
So a top down approach is I talkabout it, I use my brain to make
sense of it. And then eventuallymy symptoms fall in line with
what my brain is thinking. Butif symptoms are so intense, and
talking about it's not helpingengaging my brain and like why
this is happening isn't workingEMDR works from the bottom up.
(14:26):
So it can actually access theparts of your brain that are
holding that trauma and causingyour body so much distress and
go from the bottom up and yourbrain can file and make sense of
the things that it hadn't beenable to file and make sense of
yet. Through EMDR and so it canbe the word trauma can be
(14:50):
confusing, because I think a lotof us are like oh I don't think
I've ever you know really beenthrough trauma. I don't have no
nightmares, I don't have youknow, but we've all been
traumatized at some point in ourlife, where something has
impacted us negatively our selfesteem or our just how we move
(15:11):
through relationships, like Idon't feel safe in this
relationship to advocate formyself, that would be in my
world considered a trauma, Idon't feel safe to be my
authentic self all of the time,that would indicate to me you
experience something that youweren't supposed to experience.
(15:31):
So MDR can help with all sortsof things like that, like I have
too much stress at work, I wantto process that EMDR can help
with relieve some of thatstress. So, yeah, EMDR works
with all types of trauma andreligious trauma or stress at
work, you name it's a reallypowerful modality. And
Kira Yakubov Ploshansky (15:56):
I know it's pretty intense, right?
Like, I know, it's evidencebased, like there's a lot of
scientific research behind it.
And it can be an intenseexperience for people. And I
think that's like, kind of like,not a scare something to scare
people away, but more of awarning, right? Like, they can
kind of recognize what theymight be getting into. But I'm
sure, right, if someone'sapproaching this, the therapist
is gonna go through the processof explaining it what to expect
(16:19):
when we ease into it, right, sothat the client is aware of what
they're signing up for. Yeah,
Caitlin Harrison (16:29):
every therapist is a little bit
different how they move throughthe steps of EMDR, I spent a lot
of time in those first twosteps, which are making sure
that the client has theresources that they need to be
able to walk through the nextseveral wherever reprocessing,
we're bringing up old memories,we are talking about the things
(16:51):
that are really difficult totalk about, I make sure I spend
a lot of time making sure thatmy clients have the skills and
the tools necessary to supportthemselves through those final
stages, so that they can besuccessful rather than re
traumatizing. Um, and I thinkthat EMDR also has this air
(17:15):
about it where people are like,this is kind of like woowoo
magic, or something like that.
And it's, it's really not that Ithink that that can be kind of
like I don't get what'shappening. And it's true, you
really don't because it is thatbottom up approach. We are going
down into your emotions downinto your body down into your
brain. And it's if you're a verycerebral person, like myself,
(17:38):
honestly, it can be kind of yourskeptical side can come out.
Like what kind of magic do youthink you're doing? But it's
really not anything. You're notbeing hypnotized? You're not
getting some kind of spiritualseance. It's just it's a
scientific evidence based modelthat works. And sure it has some
(18:00):
mystery to it. But it's it's notwoowoo I think is the best word
I've heard. To describe whatit's not even though it can seem
like that sometimes.
Kira Yakubov Ploshansky (18:15):
That's really funny that you mentioned
it like that, because I there'slike different parts of me
right. And I think we'll talkabout that type of method later
as well. But a part of me thatis kind of more logical and
rational wants to see things forthe science and another
spiritual part. And thespiritual part never saw EMDR as
woowoo. But I can imagine howsome people might if it's if
(18:39):
they are a lot more cognitiveand want to think about like all
the steps and what's happeningand how does it work and how I'm
experiencing it. But you arebasically like there's right,
it's either you have thesebuzzers or something moving in
front of your face, right, likethere's this body connection to
the story that you're retelling,to kind of rewire that in your
body. Right? I'm getting that inyour nervous system.
Caitlin Harrison (19:03):
Yeah, yeah, I think things that are quote
unquote woowoo can be attractiveto some and not attractive.
Yeah. And so I think it'simportant for me to kind of put
that Asterix for those peoplethat are more skeptical and
wondering, like, What is shetrying to do when she's moving
her fingers? I always like toadd that that disclaimer,
(19:25):
because it does have this airabout it, or maybe it's
intimidating. And so I just liketo talk to that crowd that it's
not some magical thing where I'mlike, accessing some point, it's
just, it's just processing youcan trust yourself through it.
It's it works. You know, itreally, it really works. So some
(19:49):
people that could be reallyexciting and magical and
attractive. For some it could,it could be a little bit of a
Kira Yakubov Ploshansky (19:59):
a turn off I'm sure just depends how
it's packaged up right and howpeople view it.
Caitlin Harrison (20:04):
Exactly.
Kira Yakubov Ploshansk (20:06):
Speaking of parts, so I know that just
from when we spoke before thatyou also have had some training
or you like to work withinternal family systems. So I'm
sure the listeners probablydon't know what that is, unless
they're a therapist, if you canshare a little bit about what
that is and how you use thatapproach with clients, because I
love that approach. Yes.
Caitlin Harrison (20:29):
So internal family systems is very powerful
as well. So it helps you makesense of your internal world. So
how I see it, how internalfamilies would see the internal
experiences that were all madeup of parts of us. So you've
(20:49):
probably even said yourself,like a part of me really wants
to go to that picnic. Today, nopart of me just wants to stay at
home in my sweatpants. So there,you're naming two parts of you,
that want two very differentthings. And so EMDR would just
or ifs would help us kind ofname those parts and make sense
(21:12):
of those parts. So one part ofme really wants a promotion. One
part of me doesn't one part ofme really wants to have kids,
one part of me doesn't.
Sometimes I feel reallyconfident in sharing myself. And
other times, I can't put wordstogether to say what I want or
how I'm feeling. So ifs helps usget really curious about what
(21:33):
those feelings and thoughts are,what parts of ourselves come up
in certain settings, it helps usunderstand why they're coming up
to put ourselves back in chargeof all of these parts of us. So
we all have a true self that cansort of guide all of these parts
(21:55):
that developed through all ofour experiences and our
childhood. And it's it's reallypowerful language, it's really
powerful to be in touch with,Oh, my anxious part is coming
out. And I know exactly whatthat part of me needs. In order
to keep it at bay, I knowexactly what job to give it. So
(22:19):
that it's actually helping meBelieve it or not, my anxious
part can help me, instead ofhold me back from what I really
want.
Kira Yakubov Ploshansky (22:31):
Oh, that I like to wear. So I don't
know if this is necessarily anifs intervention or technique.
But I like to do this withclients who have a lot of
anxiety or a lot of worry andstress, like this internal
dialogue that just does not stopis kind of like are like, Let's
separate a little bit. Right?
How old do you think that thisvoice is? Giving that voice and
(22:53):
age and name and the function?
Right? Like, because all ofthese roles serve something to
help us? Right? They all loveus. They all want to do
something good. They're just maynot be great at it, or maybe
maladaptive, but their functionand purpose is to do something
helpful. So what do we think thepurpose is of that voice? And I
(23:17):
think the more people name itand give it an age, and they can
visualize it, it helps like,Alright, so let's say for
example, Stacy's 12. Andwhenever this comes up, Stacy
always starts getting reallyupset. Right? So what is she
looking for? She needsattention, right? Or she's
scared. So it's kind of likeworking with that other part of
(23:39):
us and leaning into instead oftrying to shut it down or being
upset or being even angry withourselves, or having that part
of us. Yeah.
Caitlin Harrison (23:48):
Like, how many times has your partner left a
dish in the sink, and your angeris triggered? You're like, they
don't care about me, you havethese whole stories in your head
about why they're the most evilperson and they don't care about
you anymore. And you'vecompletely lost the spark. And
(24:13):
they're not who they used to bebecause you saw a mulligan. And
it happens to all of us, right?
But I think that ifs can give usjust language like oh my my
angry my angry parts coming up.
I can get curious about myanger. Oh, yeah, my dad used to
yell at me when I left themagain this think and you know,
(24:35):
it always connects back tosomething and it's really helps
build self awareness and alsocan be so what you were saying
earlier, kind of separatingyourself from your anxiety or
your anger or whatever it mightbe for you. Gives you a lot of
relief as well. Like I am not myanger. I'm not my anxiety. That
(24:57):
is a part of me. That makes alot of sense why It's here. And
it's trying to help. And it justgives you a little bit more
space and a little bit morepower. Back to say, that's not
all of me. That's just a part ofme. Absolutely.
Kira Yakubov Ploshansky (25:12):
And I think it helps build my
compassion and empathy withyourself too. Totally. do you
how do you like to sprinkle thatin like is that for particular
clients with presenting issuesthat you like to use ifs or just
like, anytime it comes up whensomeone is like really deep into
their emotions or experiencingsomething over and over again?
(25:33):
Yeah,
Caitlin Harrison (25:34):
I think every client's a little bit different.
I'm always using it no matterwhat client I'm working with,
but it can look different basedon which client I'm working
with. Some people really like toname their parts, and they
really like to spend a lot oftime diving into like guided
imagery and the metaphors andsome clients are just they don't
(25:57):
want to spend too much time.
Flowering up the language andthey just like, okay, yeah, I
have an anxious part. How do Iregulate it? Yeah, I'm always
using it. But that looksdifferent, depending on the
client, always using thelanguage and the concepts
though.
Kira Yakubov Ploshansky (26:19):
So like we said, reframing and
repackaging it right, likecatering to how the client wants
to use this to make sure itmakes sense for them.
Caitlin Harrison (26:27):
Absolutely.
Kira Yakubov Ploshansky (26:29):
And so for a couples therapy, I know
you've gone through some Gottmantreatment or not treatment
training. Can you share a littlebit about because I know there's
like three different levels ofthe Gottman method. I love the
Gottman research I love to useuse this with my couples all the
time. How that shows up for youin sessions with couples. Yeah.
Caitlin Harrison (26:51):
So John and Julie Gottman, I'm level one
trained in their, in theirmethod. And how it shows up a
lot of times is in thepsychoeducation piece. So that's
just like teaching clients aboutwhat works in relationships, and
what doesn't work inrelationships, how to say things
(27:11):
in order to get what you'reactually wanting and communicate
what you actually want to say,kind of highlight some of the
bad habits or cycles thatcouples have gotten into that
might not be getting them wherethey want to be getting in their
relationship. So Gottman hashelped put so much research in
language to phenomenons thathappen in intimate
(27:34):
relationships, and also actuallylike parent child relationships,
too. So he does a lot of like coparenting work. And so I put a
lot of that into when we'retalking about parenting styles
or parenting techniques withcouples. And then also sue
Johnson's work, EmotionallyFocused Therapy, she's really
(27:55):
influenced my work with couplesas well. A lot of times, our
issues are stemming fromemotional ruptures, like kind of
losing trust or experiencinghurt or pain, whether that's in
our past from our partner, andreconnecting emotionally, can
be, honestly a lot of times allthat you need in order to move
(28:16):
through a lot of the issues thatyou're facing as a couple,
whether it be sex,communication, parenting,
understanding each other andyourself is so powerful and to
really gives a lot of structureand techniques for helping
couples do that.
Kira Yakubov Ploshansky (28:33):
I love Sue Johnson. I saw her in her
conference before I was like,Oh, this is so cool.
Caitlin Harrison (28:37):
Oh, that's awesome. Yeah, it should be so
small but mighty. Yes.
Kira Yakubov Ploshansky (28:41):
And all this she was showing her cases
of like working through it withcouples and like, she does a lot
of like, in the moment, right? Ithink there's different
therapies where we talk about,like, gaining insight and, you
know, rehashing or reenactingthings with her, it's like very
right now. Like, what is comingup for you as their, you know,
your partner is saying this andlike, where are you feeling
this? And how is this you know,showing up? So I think it's
(29:03):
awesome to kind of think aboutthe different stages of
processing and working throughthings with couples, is there's
going to be you know,understanding their past and
history and their, you know,their love story, teaching them
like you were saying with theGottman method of like things
that have not worked. And thenlike right now, right here,
what's going on between the twoof you? Yeah,
Caitlin Harrison (29:25):
she has a way and I think this is a sign of
like the best therapist, she hasa way of calling you out while
making you feel like so held inlove. And I mean, I've never
experienced her as a therapy feethat I'm watching Yeah, with
her. I think that's, that is sopowerful when your therapists
(29:45):
can know you see you make youfeel so cared for and
understood, but also they're notgonna let you get away with that
thing. You know, they're gonnaown what's yours, right? Yeah,
Kira Yakubov Ploshansky (29:58):
she definitely has a way of do And
that's, that's a tough balance,especially when you have
different personalities in theroom. And it's really hard for
couples but anybody right to beheld accountable in a moment,
like woof that? I don't know, Idon't like the way that feels
like what part of you, right? Ifwe're talking I have a part of
us coming up to want to bedefensive, or to not acknowledge
(30:21):
this right. But I think I saw usin a different kind of think it
was Terry real. He talked aboutholding this like loving
sternness. Right. Foraccountability, it's like, you
have to know that you're not abad person, but what you're
doing is not helpful, or it'snot healthy. So you have to be
(30:41):
able to hold both of thosethings in order to change and
take accountability. Yep,
Caitlin Harrison (30:47):
I think that's something that all all of the
models that we've talked abouttoday share in common that you
can look at what you might call,like bad behaviors or bad
symptoms. With so much love andcompassion and understanding for
yourself, while still holdingyourself accountable for
(31:09):
materials you want and who youreally want to be and making
sure that you're someone that'scongruent with who you're what
your values are as a person.
Kira Yakubov Plosha (31:17):
Absolutely.
And it's tough to hold both ofthose wrecks, I think a lot of
times our emotions arecontradictory. What we
experienced the majority of thetime is a contradictory
experience. But that's okay.
Like, that's normal, right? Youdon't have to pick one or the
other like, doesn't make you abad person if you do X, Y, and
Z, but you have to own up to X,Y, and Z and have compassion for
(31:38):
yourself, and be able to hearyour partner say how it impacts
them. All of that is a lot ofwork, but totally worth it to
feel that connection and lovewith your partner and with
yourself.
Caitlin Harrison (31:51):
Yeah, absolutely.
Kira Yakubov Ploshansky (31:55):
Is there any other like presenting
issue or population that wemight not have covered that you
really enjoy working with?
Caitlin Harrison (32:03):
I think that exploring so a lot of a lot of
the things we have touched onthis quite a bit, but exploring
your childhood wounds is a bigpassion of mine. So something
else that all of these modelsshare in common is this idea
that the past sins in thepresent. So when you are
(32:27):
experiencing anxiety, some kindof distress in your body, I use
the word anxiety a lot justbecause I use that as like a
umbrella term for for discomfortin your body, things are going
in the way that you want it tobe going I don't mean like
clinical diagnosis anxiety. And,and it's typically something
(32:48):
that we can look back and seehow the past is living in your
present. So exploring childhoodwounding in general, maybe that
is religious trauma, maybe thatis mental health in your family,
maybe addiction in your family.
That's a big passion of mine.
And so just kind of making senseof that is a is something I
(33:13):
think we can all benefit from,
Kira Yakubov Ploshansky (33:15):
for sure. I love looking back at
people's families. I think Italked about this in a different
episode somebody else but Ialways start with a genogram
with clients. Because I love tojust see like the whole family
who was in your life growing uplike, relatives, right? Like,
what kind of relationship didyou have with them? Especially
if there's other siblings in thehome? Like, what role do you
(33:36):
feel like you played or eachsibling played, because everyone
kind of fell into a little bitof a box sometimes, especially,
you know, our parents are tryingto do the best that they can.
And we pick up things as kidspretty quickly without realizing
it that if I do X, Y and Z, Iwill get this result. So I'm
going to be conditioned to havethis personality trait or show
(33:57):
up this particular way. And thenlater in life, I might want to
separate myself from that, butit feels like it's stuck on me
like it's my identity now.
Caitlin Harrison (34:06):
Yeah, it's a confusing, confusing process to
think, oh, wow, I was alwaysreally into sports. Because that
person in my life really likesports. And now sports was my
whole identity. And I don't knowif I care about it. But I think
I do you know what I was reallyjust making sense of where that
came from where it came fromthat it's okay that it came from
(34:28):
somebody you know, yeah, justmaking sense of it all, I think
is so important. And gives youso much power in your daily life
and in your relationships. Yeah.
Kira Yakubov Ploshansky (34:41):
And I love like, what I'm getting from
you is that you help people kindof choose, is this something
that I want to keep with me?
Right? A lot of it is likeprocessing bring awareness
insight. And then it's like nowyou have this information. What
do you want to do with this? Isthis feel authentic to you? Do
you want to continue in thisway? Does this still match up to
how you You see the world andwant to be in the world. So I
(35:01):
love that I'm hearing like youalso like, kind of help them
have that choice and decide whatfeels right for them too. Yeah,
that's right. That's awesome. SoI really appreciate you joining,
you have a wealth of knowledgeand you just graduated. But you
would think that you've been atherapist for over a decade. So
I think that a lot of yourclients and future clients are
(35:24):
going to have a great experiencewith you really being seen and
having all of this insight andtraining that you've gone
through to help people throughthis journey. So is there
anything you want to share withthe listeners before we end or
anything new that's coming upfor you?
Caitlin Harrison (35:42):
Yeah, I am just really excited. I'm new to
Pennsylvania. So I'm so excitedto be here. I already have
fallen in love with I'm inPittsburgh, I'm already falling
in love with the city ofbridges, and just the culture
and the people here. So I'mexcited to work with you all.
And I'm excited to be here atheal your roots and already feel
(36:07):
so much support and opennessfrom the team here.
Kira Yakubov Ploshansky (36:11):
It's wonderful to hear. Thank you.
I'm excited to have you join ourteam. If anyone is interested in
working with Caitlin, you canhead over to our website, heal
your roots wellness.com schedulea consultation, and we'll see if
it's a good fit. Galen, thankyou so much for being on today
and sharing all your informationand insight with us.
Caitlin Harrison (36:29):
Thank you.
Kira Yakubov Ploshansky (36:31):
If you've enjoyed this episode,
please like, share andsubscribe. Otherwise it's a wrap
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