February 14, 2024 • 45 mins
In this insightful episode of the Heal Your Roots Podcast, Kira Yakubov Ploshansky is joined by Gabrielle Larin, LMFT, to delve into the complex world of people-pleasing tendencies, their origins in childhood upbringing, and the cultural pressures that shape them. Gabrielle shares her expertise in working with clients who struggle with self-esteem issues and the compulsive need to prioritize others' needs, often at the expense of their own. Through a compassionate lens, they explore how these behaviors are rooted in early family dynamics, societal expectations placed on women, and the internalization of responsibility for others' emotions.
The conversation navigates the journey of personal growth, highlighting the importance of celebrating small successes, setting healthy boundaries, and practicing self-care. Kira and Gabrielle challenge listeners to distinguish between being "nice" and being genuinely kind, encouraging authenticity and vulnerability in relationships.
They provide practical advice on overcoming the discomfort associated with setting boundaries and communicating needs, ultimately advocating for a balanced approach to selflessness and self-preservation. This episode is a must-listen for anyone seeking to break free from the cycle of people-pleasing and embrace a more authentic, self-respecting way of living.
Check out the podcast page at https://bit.ly/hyrp-People-Pleasing-Origins
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Kira Yakubov Ploshansky (00:00):
Welcome back to Heal Your Roots Podcast.
(00:02):
Today's guest is Gabrielle LarinLicensed Marriage and Family
Therapist and a therapist atHeal Your Roots Wellness. She
shares her insights andapproaches to helping people
work through people pleasingtendencies, you're definitely
going to want to hear today'sepisode.
Welcome back to another episodeof Heal Your Roots Podcast. I'm
excited to have our guests she'sback with us Gabrielle Larin.
(00:25):
Gaby is a therapist at Heal YourRoots Wellness. Gaby, thank you
so much for joining us againtoday. Thank you for having me.
I'm excited to be here.
Absolutely. So even though wehad you on before, and you
shared a lot more about yourbackground, for first time
listeners, can you share alittle bit about yourself and
who you work with? Sure. So I ama licensed marriage and family
(00:46):
therapist and I work withindividuals.
Gabrielle Larin (01:15):
And right now I am specializing with depression,
anxiety, and I love working withself esteem.
Kira Yakubov Ploshansk (01:26):
Awesome.
I know you have especially rightnow, a lot of young adults,
struggling with self esteempeople pleasing tendencies. I,
for the first time listeners,you're also Hispanic. So you
have a lot of clients who alsocan relate to that as well if
they're coming from a similarculture and background. So Gabby
definitely has some limitedopenings. If anyone who hears
(01:47):
after this episode was like, Ihave to work with her, you can
reach out to us. But yeah, so Ithought maybe we can kind of
dive into the self esteem parks.
I know, once we you know, wetalk pretty frequently about you
know, client cases and whoyou're seeing, and there's been
a lot of themes coming up aroundpeople pleasing. So if you want
(02:08):
to share a little bit about howthat's been presenting, and how
you work with that.
Gabrielle Larin (02:13):
Sure. So in terms of people pleasing, I have
noticed that a lot of timespeople will let other people
their opinions or theiremotions, or they don't want to
upset other people ahead ofthemselves. So they are more
(02:33):
likely to think of pleasingsomeone else over themselves,
they will sacrifice their ownemotions over somebody else's.
Kira Yakubov Ploshansky (02:47):
Yeah.
And so for listeners out there,I am a recovering people
pleaser. Still working throughthis. So this definitely hits
home. But thinking about how youshare like people pleasing for
those who are listening isreally just prioritizing other
people and what they want, howthey feel what they're looking
for over our own needs, right.
(03:11):
And maybe we can talk a littlebit about how we think this
develops in people, right?
Because there's a lot of overlapbetween different personality
types are traits and how we grewup and the way our family kind
of raised us in the culturearound that to develop these
people pleasing tendencies. Haveyou noticed any themes with your
clients, or just people ingeneral that present this way
(03:32):
that have similarities from whenthey were growing up?
Gabrielle Larin (03:37):
Yeah, I've seen a lot of environmental, so a lot
of upbringing and how peoplewere raised in the family. So a
lot of times, it will be, youknow, wanting to be that golden
child, and wanting to make surethat they make the parents
(04:01):
proud. Or it could be makingsure that they're not failing
their parents, because those aretwo different things. You want
to make someone proud or youdon't want to fail. And I've
seen also a lot of siblingrivalry. That's a big one as
well. A lot of competition inthat, and I can definitely see a
(04:24):
lot of upbringing issues.
Kira Yakubov Ploshansky (04:28):
For sure. And I know, this wall this
presents across all genders,right? I do see this a little
bit more normalized, I think forgirls or females, kind of
thinking about like, thesocietal expectations,
especially when we're growing upis like, Be polite. Be nice.
(04:49):
Don't make anybody else aroundyou feel uncomfortable. Be
considerate, be agreeable,right? Like we hear these
messages enough. While we'regrowing up that it's like okay,
everyone else is free. feelingsare really important. I can
manage my own weight or they'renot as important or I can put
them last right? I have to makeeveryone else around me feel
comfortable, because otherwiseit's rude. Or it's
(05:11):
inconsiderate. So I find thatthat comes up a lot with with
women too.
Gabrielle Larin (05:16):
That's it's interesting that you say that
because it's almost like men aresupposed to be physically
strong. And women are supposedto be emotionally strong. So
they can handle things they candeal with difficult emotions. So
it's almost like there's there'sa saying in Spanish. You look
prettier with your mouth closed.
So yeah, so basically just don'tsay anything. And, you know,
(05:41):
just be pretty impolite. And youknow, just let whatever happened
and not fight back or not beassertive or dominate a
conversation.
Kira Yakubov Ploshansky (05:57):
Yeah.
Wow. How would you say that inSpanish? I'm just curious.
Gabrielle Larin (06:02):
I'm database my Juanita Comilla. Walk back at
ya.
Kira Yakubov Ploshansk (06:09):
prettier with your mouth shut. So messed
up. But I felt like that messagecomes across, right? Like, your
role should just be this looknice, look pretty be presentable
and agreeable, and don't stirthe pot don't create conflict.
Right? Like being angry showingthat aggression or assertiveness
is not a good look, or that'snot what you're supposed to do.
(06:31):
Right? Hmm. And so I know a lotwithin my culture as well,
Eastern European is that, youknow, you do put everybody first
and the woman is supposed to puttheir feelings last. And I'm
also thinking about when you'resaying like, with your parents,
right, like this golden child ornot wanting to fail, but also
(06:52):
thinking about how everyone elsepresented in the house, right?
Like, especially if you hadparents who were easily
emotionally triggered, or hadanger issues or a temper, right?
Like, you kind of like read thetemperature of the room? Or at
least I did growing up, right?
Like, you would read thetemperature of the room and you
(07:12):
would like based off of howeveryone else feels, would know
like, okay, maybe I shouldn'ttalk this time. Or maybe I
should be nice or maybe, right,like as a reaction versus just
being who you are and everyoneelse dealing with their own
stuff. So I think a lot ofpeople pleasers also develop
this ability to read otherpeople's emotions and then
(07:33):
respond to it.
Gabrielle Larin (07:37):
Yes, and I also have noticed speaking on that,
that children, I would say and,you know, our generation,
children have been more focusedon making sure that the parents
emotions are okay, kind of likechecking in, like, oh, like
(07:59):
Mommy doesn't like that you'remaking mommy sad. And then just
like oil, or make mommy sad. SoI have to regulate my own
emotions before hers, you know,like, I have to help her be
okay. So I have to make surethat I'm okay in order to help
her. And, you know, it shouldn'tbe the opposite, where the
parents are supposed to be theones regulating their own
(08:19):
emotions so that they can help achild.
Kira Yakubov Ploshansky (08:23):
Yeah, so while this is not to bash
parents, right, especially fromolder generations, you know,
everyone is just trying to dotheir best based off of what
they have been handed down andwhat they're capable of. Right.
They act that way because theirparents, but I think that now
that we're a lot more aware ofhow our behavior and emotions
(08:46):
impact each other, or I thinkour generation is a little bit
more self aware and understandsthis and is more willing to work
with emotions and acknowledgethat they exist. Right? Like, I
can't imagine how many timesI've told my parents, they may
have anxiety, like, that's not areal thing, like, okay, but
you're exhibiting all thesymptoms, but cool, okay. That
(09:07):
we, as kids, we take on theresponsibility of making sure
our parents and our siblingsfeel okay, I think that's like
the early, the early onset oflike learning these tendencies.
And now we go throughadolescence, and now we're
adults. And now we're inrelationships with people where
we sacrifice so much of what wewant. And we're just doing
(09:29):
things for other people thatdon't really align with who we
are or morals or our values. Andnow we're just like in really
unsatisfactory relationships.
Gabrielle Larin (09:39):
Right? And I think it's tough when it's kind
of like you're digging your ownhole. And then once you're in
it, you're like, oh, wait, Ihave to get out of this. Because
I'm realizing I'm not happy withwhere I'm at. I'm not happy with
my relationship. I'm not happywith putting myself on the
backburner. I want to put myselffirst and then because you've
been in this pattern for solong, so much. more difficult to
(10:01):
get yourself out of that patternand to build a new pattern of
putting yourself first. And it'sit's difficult to know not only
how to do that, but how to startand how to begin those steps in
building that positive pattern.
And
Kira Yakubov Ploshansky (10:20):
I find that I have a lot of clients
who, when they come in, likethey want to do that, right,
like, I want to be moreassertive, I want to do things
that I want to do, I want to beable to say no. And then as soon
as we start practicing, like,nevermind, I don't like it. I
thought I could do this withoutupsetting everybody. Like, oh,
that's kind of the point is thatyou're not going to be able to
continue pleasing everybody.
Because what you want is goingto be different than what
(10:43):
someone else wants. Becausethat's kind of just how it goes,
we're not all the same. We don'talways want the same things and
you're going to inconveniencesomebody or something might be
considered inconsiderate, butyou're really just putting
yourself first, right?
Gabrielle Larin (10:57):
And there's a difference between making
yourself feel uncomfortable fordoing what is right for
yourself. And I feel like, a lotof times people think that, Oh,
if it makes me feeluncomfortable, it must not be
right for me to do that. But youhave to step out of your comfort
zone, if you are so used todoing something that isn't right
(11:22):
for you for so it's almost likeyour body is comfortable there,
your body is comfortable doingthings that are not right for
you, it feels good. Because youknow the outcome, you know what
it's going to feel like, andunknown is so scary. So we don't
want to make those changes, evenif we know that it's going to
(11:44):
have a positive outcome for us.
So pretty scary to make thosechanges, even if we know that
they're good for us. Yeah.
Kira Yakubov Ploshansky (11:55):
And so how do you help people approach
that, like, what is kind of likeyour, I mean, obviously, it's
different for every person, butlike, what's kind of like your
general approach of likestarting that process for
people.
Gabrielle Larin (12:06):
Um, I will, I'm big on praising people. So I
will find those small successes,a lot of times people think in
order to feel good aboutyourself, you have to have this
extravagant event that sosuccessful. And it's like, you
know, you got this hugepromotion, or you know, you
bought a house, things likethat. And it doesn't have to be
(12:28):
this extravagant win or game. Itcan be something as small or as
simple as having a good day andnot having a negative self
thought. And that is a hugegain, that's a huge win. And we
have to celebrate those smallsuccesses to be able to feel
confident within ourselves thatif we did this one small thing,
(12:51):
we can continue to do those sothat they can eventually become
bigger gains
Kira Yakubov Ploshansky (12:57):
in the far future. So starting baby
steps is having them evenacknowledge that they're there
little victories along the way.
Gabrielle Larin (13:06):
Yes. And I will remind people of those small
successes along the way untilthey can remind themselves. So
I'm big in praising andreminding people that there is
good and every day there iswithin yourself. And you can see
those positive things withinyourself and those small and
those small successes withinyourself, I will remind you
(13:30):
until you can see it yourselfand then it becomes a little bit
more natural for you to see itwithout me having to remind you
Kira Yakubov Ploshansky (13:36):
Okay, awesome. So building that up
slowly but surely, because thatdefinitely takes time and like
compounding that that thoughtprocess as a normalized and
regular thing. Right?
Gabrielle Larin (13:47):
Take some time to build it, but I'm patient.
Kira Yakubov Ploshansky (13:53):
And, you know, part of that too. I
like when I'm working withpeople with people pleasing
tendencies is also what is thefear, right? Because I think
there's a lot of fear andwanting to avoid certain
emotions or certain things fromhappening, right. So like, like,
the most common that I hear isnot being liked. being seen as
(14:14):
rude. Or if you're a woman as abitch. I'm being left like
people are gonna abandon me ifI'm not like this anymore. And
the last one, I'm having thosethree of the big ones Oh, and
conflict, not wanting to feel orbeing engaged in conflict,
right, like avoiding conflict atall costs. All of those things
(14:37):
feel very, very uncomfortable inour bodies, and especially the
about being abandoned, right, soconflict and being abandoned
really, and how you'reperceived. So we like to
highlight that these are all thethings we're prioritizing over
our own happiness or self esteemor self respect, and having more
(14:58):
genuine relationships. I justwant to put it that way,
Gabrielle Larin (15:02):
head of yourself, because the exactly
exactly what you're saying allof those things are putting
other people ahead of yourself.
Kira Yakubov Ploshansky (15:10):
Mm hmm.
And so do you hear that too?
Like when you're when you start,like digging and processing?
Like, what is holding you backfrom doing these things and
putting yourself first,
Gabrielle Larin (15:20):
right? And a lot of times it's a burden, how
am I going to be a burden onother people? Am I it's almost
like seeing yourself as beingnegative, as you put yourself
first you are a negative, eitherthat conflict or abandoned,
something bad is going to happenif I am going to do this a lot
of what is. So a lot of times Iwill say okay, well, you're
(15:45):
thinking, what if something badcomes out of this? Help
yourself, change that thoughtprocess by asking yourself, What
if something good comes out ofthis, we can't control anything,
we can only control what we'redoing in that moment. And if we
can control ourselves, not otherpeople like to control what
we're doing for the positive andthe benefit of ourself, once we
(16:07):
have our cup filled, then we canhelp fill someone else's. But
until then, let's fill our cupfirst.
Kira Yakubov Ploshansky (16:16):
I love that you mentioned this aspect
of control. I think there's alot of need for control and
people pleasing, right? We thinkthat it's like, oh, it's about
other people. But really, a lotof what we're doing is to
control the perception of whatthey have of us how we think the
outcome is going to be how we'regoing to feel how they're going
to respond, right? Like, it isreally about control for because
(16:41):
we know if we act thisparticular way, we'll be able to
get this in return, this personwill like us, this person will
want to continue hanging outwith us. They may think
something positive me of me,right, they're not going to
leave. So there's all of thisextra work and thought and
overthinking going intocontrolling a situation. And I
(17:02):
think like the thought ofsomeone releasing that it sounds
horrifying, and it can behorrifying to
Gabrielle Larin (17:09):
Yeah, it is it is really scary. I also noticed
a lot of times people withpeople pleasing tendencies want
to stay in control, and Estaciolike they are out of control.
One thing that they can controlis their reactions are their
emotions based on somebody else.
So they can control themselvesaround others, they can, you
(17:33):
know, put others first and thenthey can control the outcome and
the feel of the relationship andthe communication and the
connection with another person.
And
Kira Yakubov Ploshansky (17:46):
I was listening to something earlier
and this is gonna be anunpopular opinion. But the more
I thought about on like, youknow, this is kind of true, is
that being nice? Right? Likepeople pleasing can kind of
overlap with being nice, notkind, right? I feel like
kindness and being nice ordifferent. Nice is being polite,
agreeable, just doing things.
It's more self centered thankindness, right? Kindness is
(18:09):
different because you are goingout of your way to do something
for somebody, regardless of howthey perceive you or what you
get from it. It is just a give.
Being nice is doing something sothat everyone else around you
feels comfortable and sees youin a particular way and likes
you and wants to come closer toyou.
Gabrielle Larin (18:31):
I 100% agree with that. Nice is more on the
outside. It's more surfacelevel, where kindness is
internal. It's who you are as aperson where you want to be a
genuine, genuinely kind person,because that's just how you are
as a person nice is more like,Oh, I am so happy to see you.
(18:57):
While on the inside. You're likeI can't wait to run away from
Irena. Notley different, Iactually saw I that's funny that
you said I saw something on theinternet the other day that was
like, nice is seeing somebodywith a flat tire and saying, Oh,
I'm so sorry that you have aflat tire. That's really
(19:18):
unfortunate. Where kind is youpull over you stop your car, and
you help them with their flattire.
Kira Yakubov Ploshansky (19:26):
And there's also so there's you
mentioned something, right?
Like, the way it presentsoutwardly versus what's going on
inside, that there's this lackof congruence. See, right like,
so you're actually not beingyourself or what other people
get to see of you is notactually who you are, or the
authentic version of you. So Ithink a lot of times people
(19:47):
pleasing, we want to be liked sobad, that we don't even give the
other person the opportunity toactually like us because we're
not doing things that weactually want to do. Right, so
we ended up saying yes to a lotof things, we end up doing a lot
of things acting a particularway. Because we think that's how
we're supposed to be to beliked. But then really inside,
(20:08):
we're feeling resentful, wemight be passive aggressive, we
might be really mad at somebody,but they'd have no clue that we
feel that way. And now we'reholding these grudges. And the
other person doesn't even know,right, so this relationship,
there's a gap of vulnerabilityand a real connection that we're
actually really craving, orwe're not even allowing,
Gabrielle Larin (20:32):
right, it's a mask, is you're putting on a
mask to have other people feel acertain type of way about you.
But meanwhile, as you said,you're not showing your
authentic self. And that happensa lot where people will put on
this mask thinking that someoneelse wants that mask, and then
the other doesn't even likethat. And they missed out on an
(20:56):
opportunity to show who theirauthentic and genuine self is.
And maybe that person would haveliked that better. But they put
on a mask thinking that that'swho they are supposed to be,
that's who they are going to beperceived as a better person.
Kira Yakubov Ploshansky (21:16):
And so how do you help people start the
process of embracing more of whothey are, and like allowing
other people to see that orsaying no, or giving answers
that are actually aligned withhow they feel?
Gabrielle Larin (21:29):
It's tough.
It's a, as we've been sayingbefore, it's a slow and steady
process, it's baby steps. Andjust like I was saying, Before,
you know, when you catchyourself thinking a certain way,
oh, maybe they think of me inthis way. And then asking
yourself, do I believe that tobe true about myself? You know,
somebody is thinking thatsomebody is thinking something
(21:53):
negatively about them? Pause,notice that you're thinking that
about the other person. And whatthey are perceiving and ask
yourself is, is that how Iperceive myself? Is that true?
Most of the time, it's not. Soit's just a gentle reminder, to
say, it's not true about myself.
(22:16):
And even if somebody else isthinking that way, I don't
believe that about myself. Andthey probably don't also, it's
just in my head that somebody isplaying this little game in my
head that's making me think thatway, but it's not true.
Kira Yakubov Ploshansky (22:34):
I think a big part of that also is like
breaking this habit ofassumptions. Right? We're like
constantly assuming that if wedo this, the other person is
going to think and act this way.
So allowing yourself like you'resaying is having a different,
like a moment of clarity, amoment of okay, what's another
option? Like, maybe they willthink that way, right? We don't
(22:56):
actually know. But maybe theywon't, maybe they'll be totally
fine with it, maybe they won'teven care, maybe they'll still
love you just the way you are,even if you have a differing
opinion, or want to do somethingelse. And like leaning into that
and allowing yourself to seewhat happens. And sitting in
that discomfort of the unknown.
Gabrielle Larin (23:19):
And that's the tough part sitting in that
discomfort of the unknown,because as the unknown is the
most ultimate fear. So that's,that's really difficult,
especially with people pleasing,because you're so terrified of
the unknown of what if I don't,because I've never done this
before. So it's feeling thatcomfort? feeling comfortable in
(23:42):
the uncomfortable.
Kira Yakubov Ploshansky (23:45):
Yeah, and that takes time, right? Like
that's like, building thetolerance for the discomfort and
like starting super, supersmall, like you were saying
before, and like seeing whathappens, right? Like, what if
you just say no? or what haveyou start right? Like, let me
think about it. Sometimes. It'sreally tough for people to go
from I'll do whatever to No, youhave, give yourself the option,
(24:06):
right? Like, let me think aboutit. Let me get back to you. I'm
not sure yet. Give yourself theoption, see how that feels in
your body, how that lands andsee how the other person reacts,
right? Like, as like a measureto see for yourself. If you can
keep going.
Gabrielle Larin (24:21):
Yeah, take a step back and even just start by
acknowledging that you're doingit. Because first is you can't
change anything withoutunderstanding it. So you have to
understand that that is whatyou're doing. You have to
acknowledge what you're doinghave to realize what you're
doing so that you can notice itto see how you can change it
(24:45):
because as we were sayingbefore, everybody's different
things work for differentpeople. So people have to notice
what they are thinking what'sgoing on in their head. What am
I feeling right now while thisis happening? What is my body
feeling? so that once theyacknowledge and notice it within
themselves, then they can startmaking changes towards progress.
Kira Yakubov Ploshansky (25:10):
Yeah, that makes me think about like,
just having that bring thatawareness to know like, Okay,
I'm saying this thing, but howdo I actually feel the exam? Am
I doing this again? Am Ithinking one thing and wanting
something and doing somethingdifferent? Like how many times
can you catch yourself? thinkingand acting? Not incongruency,
(25:30):
like incongruent, right? If youcan even just start with that,
right? Like, you might realizehow many times you're doing
this, and almost be shocked thatlike, Wow, all my decisions are
a lot of my decisions are notactually what I want to be
doing. Right.
Gabrielle Larin (25:45):
And it's, I love that you said that, because
it's also I'll tell people toask themselves questions while
things are happening. It'simportant to acknowledge your
emotions. That's kind of likethe first step. Once you
acknowledge the emotions, thenask yourself questions about
what's happening. Am I happywith the choices that I made
today? Am I happy with where I'mat today? Am I happy with how
(26:11):
I've been feeling today? WhatI've been the decisions that
have created my tomorrow. Soasking yourself questions about
yourself can help with yourprogress and your future. So
Kira Yakubov Ploshansky (26:27):
taking inventory, right, like not even
just in the moment are reacting,but like pausing later and
reflecting like a lot morereflection to I know, a big part
of this is setting boundaries. Iknow that's like the other
buzzword, right? settingboundaries is like almost gone
too far at this point.
Gabrielle Larin (26:49):
I don't even know what it means really, at
this point. That was like, No,
Kira Yakubov Ploshansky (26:52):
you can't do this. And that's it my
therapist that I'm not know.
What would be kind of yourapproach for setting healthy
boundaries while taking intoconsideration, right? Like we
are social beings inrelationships. And like, we
don't always need to set superrigid boundaries. But starting
with something that feelscomfortable,
Gabrielle Larin (27:16):
right. And I would even say how we were
saying before, don't fill froman empty cup, make sure that
your that your cup is fullbefore you feel someone else's.
Because of course, as you'resaying, We can't be so rigid and
just saying no, no, no, becausethen you're going to lean
towards the opposite side ofbeing more selfish. So we have
(27:39):
to find that balance. And a lotof times people will actually
struggle with finding thatbalance. Because if you're on
one end of the spectrum of beingcompletely selfless, and you are
starting to inch towards themiddle, you're going to think
you're completely selfish,because it's such a drastic
change of where you were before.
So again, feeling comfortablewithin that, and how we can
(27:59):
notice where that balance is,is. Don't, if you're going to
say yes to someone else, makesure that you're not saying no
to yourself. So you have toacknowledge that if you are
okay, if you are mentally stableand comfortable with where you
(28:21):
are, you're not just droppingeverything for somebody else,
you are able to say yes tosomebody else, then say yes to
that. But if you are going tosay no to yourself first and
your needs, then it's okay tosay no to somebody else.
Kira Yakubov Ploshansky (28:41):
I like that distinction, right? If
we're gonna say yes, make sureit's not you're saying no to
yourself. Yeah. And I think withtime and practice, right, there
can be exceptions. And we can bemandible, right? Like, because
there's going to be times where,you know, we made a promise to
somebody or we have acommitment, and we're no longer
in the right headspace or itdoesn't make sense anymore for
(29:03):
us. So sometimes we're going towant to say no, right? Other
times, we're going to want tosit okay, like, is this regular
for this relationship? Like, isthis normal for me to constantly
be doing things and saying yes,or the other person is expecting
me to drop everything for them?
Or are they generally veryrespectful of my time,
considerate of me, and I've madea commitment and I need to show
(29:26):
up because I have to followthrough what I say. I think that
can be really tough, sometimesthose gray areas, and I think
that that comes later down theline, to feel more comfortable
making those decisions, but likein the beginning, kind of
focusing on the ones that are alittle bit more clear. And make
more sense in the beginning oflike, clearly I'm not in the
(29:48):
right headspace. If I don't goon this coffee date with my
friend, nothing bad's gonnahappen. I haven't canceled
before I really don't feel well.
I'm just gonna let them know Ican't make it, right?
Gabrielle Larin (30:01):
It's all about balance. And in order to get
that balance sometimes in thebeginning, as you're saying, we
have to be more selfish tounderstand that it's okay to put
ourselves first, once we arecomfortable with putting
ourselves first, then we canfind that balance of
understanding that sometimes wewon't be 100%. But we still can
(30:22):
say yes to somebody else. Soit's about finding that balance.
Kira Yakubov Ploshansky (30:28):
And I think another big part is, when
you were mentioning earlier,you're like, Oh, I feel like a
burden. Or I feel like a badperson, right? If I do this,
like to ask people like, well,if someone did that to you,
would you be upset with them?
No, I would never, I wouldtotally understand, it'd be
totally fine. I'm like, really?
So why does the rule change foryou? Why are you the only one
(30:53):
that this is a burden, or you'rea bad friend, or this is
horrible? But you get to beconsiderate of everybody else's
feeling? Why can't anybody elsebe considerate of you?
Gabrielle Larin (31:04):
Yep. I will tell somebody to ask themselves
in those situations, you know,pretend that you are asking a
friend instead of yourself. Anda lot of times the answers will
change somebody else then No,no, it's okay. Everything would
be fine. If they did that, youknow, I wouldn't care. Okay,
well, maybe treat yourself asthat friend.
Kira Yakubov Ploshansky (31:29):
And to kind of go along with the this
the self reflection that youmentioned earlier to like some
tips for people with somepractical things they can do. I
remember when I was like,starting out with this,
especially when I was going totherapy for myself and like,
working through this process iskind of reflecting like, when I
am thinking about someonecalling me, right when like
(31:52):
checking in with myself in mybody, right? Like, if I get a
phone call from somebody, and ifI see this particular name, how
do I feel? Do I feel like theyfeel drained? Do I feel like I
don't want to pick it up? Do Ifeel like oh, I have to get
ready for this call, right?
Versus like, Oh, I'm excited topick up this phone call where
I'm excited to see this person,right, like, what comes up for
you in your body before, duringand after spending time or
(32:13):
communicating with a particularperson. If it is perpetually
feeling like it's an obligation,like you don't feel great about
it, you're left feeling kind oficky afterwards, thinking about
what kind of boundary do I needto set then. And sometimes you
don't always have to verbalizethat boundary. Right? It could
just be an internal one of, I'mnot going to pick up the phone
(32:36):
they call and that that you'reallowed to do that. Right? Like,
or I'm going to text them back,or I'll call them back at my
leisure when I have more time.
Or I'm not going to make planswith them as frequently. Right?
Like really, when you're sayingtaking inventory is like
checking in with yourself, like,how do you feel around
(32:56):
particular people? before,during and after? And is there
something different you can door show up in a different way to
maintain that relationship, ifyou want to maintain it? Or
maybe part of this process, yourealize, like, this relationship
is really made out ofobligation. And we don't
necessarily want relationshipslike that. I mean, sometimes we
(33:19):
will write if they're familymembers or, you know, work, like
coworkers where like, there'sgoing to be certain situations
where like, yes, they're goingto be in our life. But we can
limit the amount of time wespend with them talking to them
about what and how much theyimpact us.
Gabrielle Larin (33:37):
Right? I love that. Because you are
acknowledging your feelingsbased off of the person and
seeing the pattern, I'm very bigon patterns. And if you know,
one day you just don't feel liketalking to them, that's fine.
But it continuously becomes apattern, then that's telling you
something about how you'refeeling based off of the other
(34:01):
person's feelings towards you.
So it's, it's about arelationship, you know, it goes
back and forth. It's not just aone way. So I love that.
Kira Yakubov Ploshansky (34:12):
Yeah, I think a big part of this too, is
knowing that through thisprocess, you may lose some
relationships. And that's okay.
And that's okay. Right. Like, Ithink it feels a lot scarier in
the beginning. Because then wethink, Well, I'm gonna lose all
my friendships. I mean, it wasall my relationships. But no,
that's not true, right? Like ittakes time to set these
(34:33):
boundaries, feel outrelationships, see if they make
sense for you. But I think asyou do this work, you recognize
that like, some of theserelationships, like even though
they've already not beensatisfying, you become less and
less engaged in them because youstart recognizing like, I'm not
actually getting anything out ofthis friendship or this
relationship, right? If I don'tput in all the work, if I'm not
(34:56):
the only one reaching out outwere like bending over
backwards. Doesn't reallynothing's going on, like
nothing's happening. I'm notgaining anything from this
right? And like, like you said,if it's a one sided
relationship, you have to reallythink about like, Is that worth
my time and energy? When afterI've been reflecting, have these
other people in my life, thatit's very reciprocal. I feel
(35:17):
great afterwards. So like,shifting away a little bit is a
natural part of this, too.
Gabrielle Larin (35:27):
Yeah. And I think that that's important to
acknowledge as well, it'sshifting away a little bit.
Whereas a lot of times, peoplewill think they just have to
fully cut them off. And that'sit, where you can still have
that person in your life. Youcan you want them in your life,
keep them in your life, as longas you are helping yourself
through that making sure thatyou're okay through that you can
(35:50):
distance them, you can putyourself at a distance, put them
at a distance, and continue therelationship based off as your
comfortability, where are youcomfortable with that
relationship? If it's, you know,over here, that's great. If it's
closer, that's great. It'scutting them off completely.
That's great. It it's about thatbalance. It's about finding
(36:12):
what's right for you, not whatis necessarily Constable,
because you've been used to itfor so long.
Kira Yakubov Plosha (36:20):
Absolutely.
Yeah. I think a big part ofthese two is also recognizing
when you're internally likereally mad at somebody, but they
don't know. Right? Like, are youperpetually angry at somebody or
annoyed with somebody or feelingpassive aggressive towards
somebody, right? Because I thinka lot of times, we might be mad
at someone because they didn'tshow up a particular way.
(36:42):
Because we were expecting themto because we always do. Like,
well, I'm always there for you,I always do this, I'm always
willing to, you know, yaddayadda yadda. But this other
person isn't a people pleaser.
And they're not going toprioritize your feelings over
theirs. And that's notnecessarily a bad thing. But if
(37:04):
your expectation is that and youdon't share that with them, or
you're angry with them, and theydon't know, I think it's also
checking in with yourself, like,are these realistic
expectations? Like, am I justover giving? Or are they being
rude? Right, there's adifference.
Gabrielle Larin (37:20):
That's a very important distinction. A lot of
times people will say, You knowwhat, if I'm doing that, then I
should expect somebody else todo that in return. Everybody's
different. Everybody reactsdifferently. Everybody loves
differently, everybody connectsdifferently, we're all
different. And we want to giveoff in different ways than other
(37:43):
people want to give off and takein different ways. So I've seen
like, communicating that is soimportant, and being open with
people in your life. Because ifyou do love this person, and the
person loves you, then youshould feel comfortable in terms
of communicating what you want,and how you want to be
(38:05):
supported. Because then you candevelop a stronger bond with
that person. Mm hmm.
Kira Yakubov Ploshansky (38:14):
And that's a big part, right? That
we, I think we've been dancingaround, but not necessarily like
identifying is communicating isa lot of this means you're going
to have to communicate what youactually feel and want and
expect. Or if you're upset bysomething, expressing that too.
Gabrielle Larin (38:35):
Right. And that's the tough part is
vulnerability, being okay withbeing vulnerable. And a lot of
times people don't want to feelvulnerable, because that
vulnerability makes them feellike they can get hurt. And what
we were saying before, you know,that people pleasing is the same
(38:56):
fears of, or similar fears offeeling vulnerable, they don't
want to feel like they shouldget abandoned, or they don't
want to feel like there is goingto be conflict within that
vulnerability. So it's difficultto communicate your needs, and
feel that vulnerability at thesame time.
Kira Yakubov Ploshansky (39:19):
Yeah, so communicating vulnerability,
all these fun things thateveryone comes to us for. It's
all right, but it's alsoreminding people like these are
baby steps. Like, no one'strying to rip the band aid off.
This is a process like, no, andyou're not gonna stick with it,
(39:43):
right? If we just rip off a bandaid and like, Go tell your best
friend, you're sick of theirshit. And you're right, like,
no, we want to easy. I mean,eventually, yeah, you want to
tell them but in a differentway, you know, follow
Gabrielle Larin (39:58):
the baby steps first. That's it.
Kira Yakubov Ploshansky (40:02):
Yeah.
And I think a couple things thatreally helped me through this
process that I've kind ofrelayed to clients too is, it's
hard to trust somebody, whenthey're constantly people
pleasing is also an unpopularopinion, right is, if you're not
genuine with how you feel, and Iknow that you are scared to tell
me how you feel, or to tellother people generally, if
(40:25):
you're upset by something, I'mgoing to have a harder time
trusting you when you tell me,oh, everything's fine. Because I
don't believe you. Because Iknow that you're not likely to
share if something's upsettingyou. And I know that because
that's how I used to be right,like, Oh, it's fine, it's fine.
And like, you can't really builda lot of trust off of that when
later you realize, no, it wasn'tfine. And I wanted to know if I
(40:46):
hurt you, and I gave you theopportunity, but you still
didn't tell me for people tolike recognize not to make them
feel bad. But to realize, like,you know, it doesn't make you
come off as trustworthy. Ifyou're never upset by something
when clearly you are, or clearlysomeone in this position would
be. And
Gabrielle Larin (41:09):
that would be a perfect example of a baby step,
if somebody is giving you thatopportunity to share that, take
them up on that. And, you know,you don't have to just unload
everything, but share a littlebit at a time so that you can
release some of that pressure,you can release some of that
within yourself. And it's goingto feel very uncomfortable. But
(41:31):
as we were saying before, you'regoing to feel uncomfortable, but
it's right for you in the longrun, you're going to have this
release, and it's going to feellike a stronger connection with
that person, once you're done.
And you're going to feel betterabout yourself, because that
confidence is slowly creepingup.
Kira Yakubov Ploshansky (41:50):
Yeah, right. You can be like who I did
the scary thing. It's not aboutthe outcome or the result
necessarily, because we can'tcontrol how someone's gonna
react to it, we just cannot wehave to release that. But I can
be proud that I did a scarything. It was uncomfortable, and
I leaned into it. And that's abig deal. Exactly.
Gabrielle Larin (42:09):
And that is so important. A lot of times people
will focus on the outcome. Butit's so important to acknowledge
that even if you're going toupset somebody else, you are
making yourself better.
Kira Yakubov Ploshansky (42:23):
And kind of like a final. A final
note of this is to not takethings so personally. Which I
mean, was it much easier saidthan done, right. But I think
when we recognize that, likeeveryone is kind of just trying
to do their best based on like,their level of awareness and
(42:43):
healing and understanding andyou know, relational skills,
everyone is in a different spotand have other things going on
in their life that we really maynot know about. So if someone
acts a particular way, insteadof immediately personalizing and
saying, Oh, they must be mad atme, they must hate me, I must
(43:04):
have done something wrong. Now,maybe there's just something
else going on. And you know,maybe if they are upset with me,
because I needed to do thisthing for myself, like, okay,
like releasing that control orreleasing that need to be
perceived a particular way.
Like, I'm not going to take thispersonally, they're allowed to
be upset with this behavior. Itdoes not make me a bad person.
Gabrielle Larin (43:29):
And that's, that's very important. And also,
it's not going to last forever.
And if it does last forever,maybe that relationship isn't
right for you.
Kira Yakubov Ploshansky (43:37):
There you go. Feelings are temporary
everybody.
Gabrielle Larin (43:42):
And they're a roller coaster, they will go up
and down. And sometimes thoseyou know negative emotions will
come back and then once weprocess them, we'll learn how to
deal with it again.
Kira Yakubov Ploshansky (43:56):
So Gabby, is there any final final
tips or notes for the listenersaround this topic or anything
you'd want to share with them?
Gabrielle Larin (44:05):
If you are struggling with people pleasing,
and you want to start somewheredon't know if I'm like allowed
to say this, but fuck everybodyelse.
Kira Yakubov Ploshansky (44:17):
You want to say whatever you want.
There's not a censored podcast.
Gabrielle Larin (44:24):
The first step is tell yourself like everybody
else and put yourself first onceyou start feeling a little bit
more comfortable with that, thenyou can start to get that
balance and understanding. Okay,now I am more comfortable with
that. And I can start tounderstand how to keep the
balance of putting others firstand putting myself first but
(44:45):
first fuck everybody else.
Kira Yakubov Ploshansky (44:47):
And then later, it's like okay,
well, I can give a fuck aboutyou and maybe you not so much
over there.
Gabrielle Larin (44:53):
Find that balance afterwards.
Kira Yakubov Ploshansky (44:55):
That's awesome. Gabby, thank you so
much for being on with us today.
I think this has been reallyhelpful and insightful. I hope
listeners really get a lot ofinformation from this. If anyone
wants to work with Gabby she hasa limited availability you can
definitely reach out to healyour roots wellness.com To
schedule a consultation and workwith her but Gabby thanks so
much.
Gabrielle Larin (45:16):
Thank you I had a great time.
Kira Yakubov Ploshansky (45:18):
If you enjoyed this episode, please
remember to like subscribe andshare so the message can you get
out
Welcome back to Heal Your Roots Podcast.
(00:02):
Today's guest is Gabrielle LarinLicensed Marriage and Family
Therapist and a therapist atHeal Your Roots Wellness. She
shares her insights andapproaches to helping people
work through people pleasingtendencies, you're definitely
going to want to hear today'sepisode.
Welcome back to another episodeof Heal Your Roots Podcast. I'm
excited to have our guests she'sback with us Gabrielle Larin.
(00:25):
Gaby is a therapist at Heal YourRoots Wellness. Gaby, thank you
so much for joining us againtoday. Thank you for having me.
I'm excited to be here.
Absolutely. So even though wehad you on before, and you
shared a lot more about yourbackground, for first time
listeners, can you share alittle bit about yourself and
who you work with? Sure. So I ama licensed marriage and family
(00:46):
therapist and I work withindividuals.
Gabrielle Larin (01:15):
And right now I am specializing with depression,
anxiety, and I love working withself esteem.
Kira Yakubov Ploshansk (01:26):
Awesome.
I know you have especially rightnow, a lot of young adults,
struggling with self esteempeople pleasing tendencies. I,
for the first time listeners,you're also Hispanic. So you
have a lot of clients who alsocan relate to that as well if
they're coming from a similarculture and background. So Gabby
definitely has some limitedopenings. If anyone who hears
(01:47):
after this episode was like, Ihave to work with her, you can
reach out to us. But yeah, so Ithought maybe we can kind of
dive into the self esteem parks.
I know, once we you know, wetalk pretty frequently about you
know, client cases and whoyou're seeing, and there's been
a lot of themes coming up aroundpeople pleasing. So if you want
(02:08):
to share a little bit about howthat's been presenting, and how
you work with that.
Gabrielle Larin (02:13):
Sure. So in terms of people pleasing, I have
noticed that a lot of timespeople will let other people
their opinions or theiremotions, or they don't want to
upset other people ahead ofthemselves. So they are more
(02:33):
likely to think of pleasingsomeone else over themselves,
they will sacrifice their ownemotions over somebody else's.
Kira Yakubov Ploshansky (02:47):
Yeah.
And so for listeners out there,I am a recovering people
pleaser. Still working throughthis. So this definitely hits
home. But thinking about how youshare like people pleasing for
those who are listening isreally just prioritizing other
people and what they want, howthey feel what they're looking
for over our own needs, right.
(03:11):
And maybe we can talk a littlebit about how we think this
develops in people, right?
Because there's a lot of overlapbetween different personality
types are traits and how we grewup and the way our family kind
of raised us in the culturearound that to develop these
people pleasing tendencies. Haveyou noticed any themes with your
clients, or just people ingeneral that present this way
(03:32):
that have similarities from whenthey were growing up?
Gabrielle Larin (03:37):
Yeah, I've seen a lot of environmental, so a lot
of upbringing and how peoplewere raised in the family. So a
lot of times, it will be, youknow, wanting to be that golden
child, and wanting to make surethat they make the parents
(04:01):
proud. Or it could be makingsure that they're not failing
their parents, because those aretwo different things. You want
to make someone proud or youdon't want to fail. And I've
seen also a lot of siblingrivalry. That's a big one as
well. A lot of competition inthat, and I can definitely see a
(04:24):
lot of upbringing issues.
Kira Yakubov Ploshansky (04:28):
For sure. And I know, this wall this
presents across all genders,right? I do see this a little
bit more normalized, I think forgirls or females, kind of
thinking about like, thesocietal expectations,
especially when we're growing upis like, Be polite. Be nice.
(04:49):
Don't make anybody else aroundyou feel uncomfortable. Be
considerate, be agreeable,right? Like we hear these
messages enough. While we'regrowing up that it's like okay,
everyone else is free. feelingsare really important. I can
manage my own weight or they'renot as important or I can put
them last right? I have to makeeveryone else around me feel
comfortable, because otherwiseit's rude. Or it's
(05:11):
inconsiderate. So I find thatthat comes up a lot with with
women too.
Gabrielle Larin (05:16):
That's it's interesting that you say that
because it's almost like men aresupposed to be physically
strong. And women are supposedto be emotionally strong. So
they can handle things they candeal with difficult emotions. So
it's almost like there's there'sa saying in Spanish. You look
prettier with your mouth closed.
So yeah, so basically just don'tsay anything. And, you know,
(05:41):
just be pretty impolite. And youknow, just let whatever happened
and not fight back or not beassertive or dominate a
conversation.
Kira Yakubov Ploshansky (05:57):
Yeah.
Wow. How would you say that inSpanish? I'm just curious.
Gabrielle Larin (06:02):
I'm database my Juanita Comilla. Walk back at
ya.
Kira Yakubov Ploshansk (06:09):
prettier with your mouth shut. So messed
up. But I felt like that messagecomes across, right? Like, your
role should just be this looknice, look pretty be presentable
and agreeable, and don't stirthe pot don't create conflict.
Right? Like being angry showingthat aggression or assertiveness
is not a good look, or that'snot what you're supposed to do.
(06:31):
Right? Hmm. And so I know a lotwithin my culture as well,
Eastern European is that, youknow, you do put everybody first
and the woman is supposed to puttheir feelings last. And I'm
also thinking about when you'resaying like, with your parents,
right, like this golden child ornot wanting to fail, but also
(06:52):
thinking about how everyone elsepresented in the house, right?
Like, especially if you hadparents who were easily
emotionally triggered, or hadanger issues or a temper, right?
Like, you kind of like read thetemperature of the room? Or at
least I did growing up, right?
Like, you would read thetemperature of the room and you
(07:12):
would like based off of howeveryone else feels, would know
like, okay, maybe I shouldn'ttalk this time. Or maybe I
should be nice or maybe, right,like as a reaction versus just
being who you are and everyoneelse dealing with their own
stuff. So I think a lot ofpeople pleasers also develop
this ability to read otherpeople's emotions and then
(07:33):
respond to it.
Gabrielle Larin (07:37):
Yes, and I also have noticed speaking on that,
that children, I would say and,you know, our generation,
children have been more focusedon making sure that the parents
emotions are okay, kind of likechecking in, like, oh, like
(07:59):
Mommy doesn't like that you'remaking mommy sad. And then just
like oil, or make mommy sad. SoI have to regulate my own
emotions before hers, you know,like, I have to help her be
okay. So I have to make surethat I'm okay in order to help
her. And, you know, it shouldn'tbe the opposite, where the
parents are supposed to be theones regulating their own
(08:19):
emotions so that they can help achild.
Kira Yakubov Ploshansky (08:23):
Yeah, so while this is not to bash
parents, right, especially fromolder generations, you know,
everyone is just trying to dotheir best based off of what
they have been handed down andwhat they're capable of. Right.
They act that way because theirparents, but I think that now
that we're a lot more aware ofhow our behavior and emotions
(08:46):
impact each other, or I thinkour generation is a little bit
more self aware and understandsthis and is more willing to work
with emotions and acknowledgethat they exist. Right? Like, I
can't imagine how many timesI've told my parents, they may
have anxiety, like, that's not areal thing, like, okay, but
you're exhibiting all thesymptoms, but cool, okay. That
(09:07):
we, as kids, we take on theresponsibility of making sure
our parents and our siblingsfeel okay, I think that's like
the early, the early onset oflike learning these tendencies.
And now we go throughadolescence, and now we're
adults. And now we're inrelationships with people where
we sacrifice so much of what wewant. And we're just doing
(09:29):
things for other people thatdon't really align with who we
are or morals or our values. Andnow we're just like in really
unsatisfactory relationships.
Gabrielle Larin (09:39):
Right? And I think it's tough when it's kind
of like you're digging your ownhole. And then once you're in
it, you're like, oh, wait, Ihave to get out of this. Because
I'm realizing I'm not happy withwhere I'm at. I'm not happy with
my relationship. I'm not happywith putting myself on the
backburner. I want to put myselffirst and then because you've
been in this pattern for solong, so much. more difficult to
(10:01):
get yourself out of that patternand to build a new pattern of
putting yourself first. And it'sit's difficult to know not only
how to do that, but how to startand how to begin those steps in
building that positive pattern.
And
Kira Yakubov Ploshansky (10:20):
I find that I have a lot of clients
who, when they come in, likethey want to do that, right,
like, I want to be moreassertive, I want to do things
that I want to do, I want to beable to say no. And then as soon
as we start practicing, like,nevermind, I don't like it. I
thought I could do this withoutupsetting everybody. Like, oh,
that's kind of the point is thatyou're not going to be able to
continue pleasing everybody.
Because what you want is goingto be different than what
(10:43):
someone else wants. Becausethat's kind of just how it goes,
we're not all the same. We don'talways want the same things and
you're going to inconveniencesomebody or something might be
considered inconsiderate, butyou're really just putting
yourself first, right?
Gabrielle Larin (10:57):
And there's a difference between making
yourself feel uncomfortable fordoing what is right for
yourself. And I feel like, a lotof times people think that, Oh,
if it makes me feeluncomfortable, it must not be
right for me to do that. But youhave to step out of your comfort
zone, if you are so used todoing something that isn't right
(11:22):
for you for so it's almost likeyour body is comfortable there,
your body is comfortable doingthings that are not right for
you, it feels good. Because youknow the outcome, you know what
it's going to feel like, andunknown is so scary. So we don't
want to make those changes, evenif we know that it's going to
(11:44):
have a positive outcome for us.
So pretty scary to make thosechanges, even if we know that
they're good for us. Yeah.
Kira Yakubov Ploshansky (11:55):
And so how do you help people approach
that, like, what is kind of likeyour, I mean, obviously, it's
different for every person, butlike, what's kind of like your
general approach of likestarting that process for
people.
Gabrielle Larin (12:06):
Um, I will, I'm big on praising people. So I
will find those small successes,a lot of times people think in
order to feel good aboutyourself, you have to have this
extravagant event that sosuccessful. And it's like, you
know, you got this hugepromotion, or you know, you
bought a house, things likethat. And it doesn't have to be
(12:28):
this extravagant win or game. Itcan be something as small or as
simple as having a good day andnot having a negative self
thought. And that is a hugegain, that's a huge win. And we
have to celebrate those smallsuccesses to be able to feel
confident within ourselves thatif we did this one small thing,
(12:51):
we can continue to do those sothat they can eventually become
bigger gains
Kira Yakubov Ploshansky (12:57):
in the far future. So starting baby
steps is having them evenacknowledge that they're there
little victories along the way.
Gabrielle Larin (13:06):
Yes. And I will remind people of those small
successes along the way untilthey can remind themselves. So
I'm big in praising andreminding people that there is
good and every day there iswithin yourself. And you can see
those positive things withinyourself and those small and
those small successes withinyourself, I will remind you
(13:30):
until you can see it yourselfand then it becomes a little bit
more natural for you to see itwithout me having to remind you
Kira Yakubov Ploshansky (13:36):
Okay, awesome. So building that up
slowly but surely, because thatdefinitely takes time and like
compounding that that thoughtprocess as a normalized and
regular thing. Right?
Gabrielle Larin (13:47):
Take some time to build it, but I'm patient.
Kira Yakubov Ploshansky (13:53):
And, you know, part of that too. I
like when I'm working withpeople with people pleasing
tendencies is also what is thefear, right? Because I think
there's a lot of fear andwanting to avoid certain
emotions or certain things fromhappening, right. So like, like,
the most common that I hear isnot being liked. being seen as
(14:14):
rude. Or if you're a woman as abitch. I'm being left like
people are gonna abandon me ifI'm not like this anymore. And
the last one, I'm having thosethree of the big ones Oh, and
conflict, not wanting to feel orbeing engaged in conflict,
right, like avoiding conflict atall costs. All of those things
(14:37):
feel very, very uncomfortable inour bodies, and especially the
about being abandoned, right, soconflict and being abandoned
really, and how you'reperceived. So we like to
highlight that these are all thethings we're prioritizing over
our own happiness or self esteemor self respect, and having more
(14:58):
genuine relationships. I justwant to put it that way,
Gabrielle Larin (15:02):
head of yourself, because the exactly
exactly what you're saying allof those things are putting
other people ahead of yourself.
Kira Yakubov Ploshansky (15:10):
Mm hmm.
And so do you hear that too?
Like when you're when you start,like digging and processing?
Like, what is holding you backfrom doing these things and
putting yourself first,
Gabrielle Larin (15:20):
right? And a lot of times it's a burden, how
am I going to be a burden onother people? Am I it's almost
like seeing yourself as beingnegative, as you put yourself
first you are a negative, eitherthat conflict or abandoned,
something bad is going to happenif I am going to do this a lot
of what is. So a lot of times Iwill say okay, well, you're
(15:45):
thinking, what if something badcomes out of this? Help
yourself, change that thoughtprocess by asking yourself, What
if something good comes out ofthis, we can't control anything,
we can only control what we'redoing in that moment. And if we
can control ourselves, not otherpeople like to control what
we're doing for the positive andthe benefit of ourself, once we
(16:07):
have our cup filled, then we canhelp fill someone else's. But
until then, let's fill our cupfirst.
Kira Yakubov Ploshansky (16:16):
I love that you mentioned this aspect
of control. I think there's alot of need for control and
people pleasing, right? We thinkthat it's like, oh, it's about
other people. But really, a lotof what we're doing is to
control the perception of whatthey have of us how we think the
outcome is going to be how we'regoing to feel how they're going
to respond, right? Like, it isreally about control for because
(16:41):
we know if we act thisparticular way, we'll be able to
get this in return, this personwill like us, this person will
want to continue hanging outwith us. They may think
something positive me of me,right, they're not going to
leave. So there's all of thisextra work and thought and
overthinking going intocontrolling a situation. And I
(17:02):
think like the thought ofsomeone releasing that it sounds
horrifying, and it can behorrifying to
Gabrielle Larin (17:09):
Yeah, it is it is really scary. I also noticed
a lot of times people withpeople pleasing tendencies want
to stay in control, and Estaciolike they are out of control.
One thing that they can controlis their reactions are their
emotions based on somebody else.
So they can control themselvesaround others, they can, you
(17:33):
know, put others first and thenthey can control the outcome and
the feel of the relationship andthe communication and the
connection with another person.
And
Kira Yakubov Ploshansky (17:46):
I was listening to something earlier
and this is gonna be anunpopular opinion. But the more
I thought about on like, youknow, this is kind of true, is
that being nice? Right? Likepeople pleasing can kind of
overlap with being nice, notkind, right? I feel like
kindness and being nice ordifferent. Nice is being polite,
agreeable, just doing things.
It's more self centered thankindness, right? Kindness is
(18:09):
different because you are goingout of your way to do something
for somebody, regardless of howthey perceive you or what you
get from it. It is just a give.
Being nice is doing something sothat everyone else around you
feels comfortable and sees youin a particular way and likes
you and wants to come closer toyou.
Gabrielle Larin (18:31):
I 100% agree with that. Nice is more on the
outside. It's more surfacelevel, where kindness is
internal. It's who you are as aperson where you want to be a
genuine, genuinely kind person,because that's just how you are
as a person nice is more like,Oh, I am so happy to see you.
(18:57):
While on the inside. You're likeI can't wait to run away from
Irena. Notley different, Iactually saw I that's funny that
you said I saw something on theinternet the other day that was
like, nice is seeing somebodywith a flat tire and saying, Oh,
I'm so sorry that you have aflat tire. That's really
(19:18):
unfortunate. Where kind is youpull over you stop your car, and
you help them with their flattire.
Kira Yakubov Ploshansky (19:26):
And there's also so there's you
mentioned something, right?
Like, the way it presentsoutwardly versus what's going on
inside, that there's this lackof congruence. See, right like,
so you're actually not beingyourself or what other people
get to see of you is notactually who you are, or the
authentic version of you. So Ithink a lot of times people
(19:47):
pleasing, we want to be liked sobad, that we don't even give the
other person the opportunity toactually like us because we're
not doing things that weactually want to do. Right, so
we ended up saying yes to a lotof things, we end up doing a lot
of things acting a particularway. Because we think that's how
we're supposed to be to beliked. But then really inside,
(20:08):
we're feeling resentful, wemight be passive aggressive, we
might be really mad at somebody,but they'd have no clue that we
feel that way. And now we'reholding these grudges. And the
other person doesn't even know,right, so this relationship,
there's a gap of vulnerabilityand a real connection that we're
actually really craving, orwe're not even allowing,
Gabrielle Larin (20:32):
right, it's a mask, is you're putting on a
mask to have other people feel acertain type of way about you.
But meanwhile, as you said,you're not showing your
authentic self. And that happensa lot where people will put on
this mask thinking that someoneelse wants that mask, and then
the other doesn't even likethat. And they missed out on an
(20:56):
opportunity to show who theirauthentic and genuine self is.
And maybe that person would haveliked that better. But they put
on a mask thinking that that'swho they are supposed to be,
that's who they are going to beperceived as a better person.
Kira Yakubov Ploshansky (21:16):
And so how do you help people start the
process of embracing more of whothey are, and like allowing
other people to see that orsaying no, or giving answers
that are actually aligned withhow they feel?
Gabrielle Larin (21:29):
It's tough.
It's a, as we've been sayingbefore, it's a slow and steady
process, it's baby steps. Andjust like I was saying, Before,
you know, when you catchyourself thinking a certain way,
oh, maybe they think of me inthis way. And then asking
yourself, do I believe that tobe true about myself? You know,
somebody is thinking thatsomebody is thinking something
(21:53):
negatively about them? Pause,notice that you're thinking that
about the other person. And whatthey are perceiving and ask
yourself is, is that how Iperceive myself? Is that true?
Most of the time, it's not. Soit's just a gentle reminder, to
say, it's not true about myself.
(22:16):
And even if somebody else isthinking that way, I don't
believe that about myself. Andthey probably don't also, it's
just in my head that somebody isplaying this little game in my
head that's making me think thatway, but it's not true.
Kira Yakubov Ploshansky (22:34):
I think a big part of that also is like
breaking this habit ofassumptions. Right? We're like
constantly assuming that if wedo this, the other person is
going to think and act this way.
So allowing yourself like you'resaying is having a different,
like a moment of clarity, amoment of okay, what's another
option? Like, maybe they willthink that way, right? We don't
(22:56):
actually know. But maybe theywon't, maybe they'll be totally
fine with it, maybe they won'teven care, maybe they'll still
love you just the way you are,even if you have a differing
opinion, or want to do somethingelse. And like leaning into that
and allowing yourself to seewhat happens. And sitting in
that discomfort of the unknown.
Gabrielle Larin (23:19):
And that's the tough part sitting in that
discomfort of the unknown,because as the unknown is the
most ultimate fear. So that's,that's really difficult,
especially with people pleasing,because you're so terrified of
the unknown of what if I don't,because I've never done this
before. So it's feeling thatcomfort? feeling comfortable in
(23:42):
the uncomfortable.
Kira Yakubov Ploshansky (23:45):
Yeah, and that takes time, right? Like
that's like, building thetolerance for the discomfort and
like starting super, supersmall, like you were saying
before, and like seeing whathappens, right? Like, what if
you just say no? or what haveyou start right? Like, let me
think about it. Sometimes. It'sreally tough for people to go
from I'll do whatever to No, youhave, give yourself the option,
(24:06):
right? Like, let me think aboutit. Let me get back to you. I'm
not sure yet. Give yourself theoption, see how that feels in
your body, how that lands andsee how the other person reacts,
right? Like, as like a measureto see for yourself. If you can
keep going.
Gabrielle Larin (24:21):
Yeah, take a step back and even just start by
acknowledging that you're doingit. Because first is you can't
change anything withoutunderstanding it. So you have to
understand that that is whatyou're doing. You have to
acknowledge what you're doinghave to realize what you're
doing so that you can notice itto see how you can change it
(24:45):
because as we were sayingbefore, everybody's different
things work for differentpeople. So people have to notice
what they are thinking what'sgoing on in their head. What am
I feeling right now while thisis happening? What is my body
feeling? so that once theyacknowledge and notice it within
themselves, then they can startmaking changes towards progress.
Kira Yakubov Ploshansky (25:10):
Yeah, that makes me think about like,
just having that bring thatawareness to know like, Okay,
I'm saying this thing, but howdo I actually feel the exam? Am
I doing this again? Am Ithinking one thing and wanting
something and doing somethingdifferent? Like how many times
can you catch yourself? thinkingand acting? Not incongruency,
(25:30):
like incongruent, right? If youcan even just start with that,
right? Like, you might realizehow many times you're doing
this, and almost be shocked thatlike, Wow, all my decisions are
a lot of my decisions are notactually what I want to be
doing. Right.
Gabrielle Larin (25:45):
And it's, I love that you said that, because
it's also I'll tell people toask themselves questions while
things are happening. It'simportant to acknowledge your
emotions. That's kind of likethe first step. Once you
acknowledge the emotions, thenask yourself questions about
what's happening. Am I happywith the choices that I made
today? Am I happy with where I'mat today? Am I happy with how
(26:11):
I've been feeling today? WhatI've been the decisions that
have created my tomorrow. Soasking yourself questions about
yourself can help with yourprogress and your future. So
Kira Yakubov Ploshansky (26:27):
taking inventory, right, like not even
just in the moment are reacting,but like pausing later and
reflecting like a lot morereflection to I know, a big part
of this is setting boundaries. Iknow that's like the other
buzzword, right? settingboundaries is like almost gone
too far at this point.
Gabrielle Larin (26:49):
I don't even know what it means really, at
this point. That was like, No,
Kira Yakubov Ploshansky (26:52):
you can't do this. And that's it my
therapist that I'm not know.
What would be kind of yourapproach for setting healthy
boundaries while taking intoconsideration, right? Like we
are social beings inrelationships. And like, we
don't always need to set superrigid boundaries. But starting
with something that feelscomfortable,
Gabrielle Larin (27:16):
right. And I would even say how we were
saying before, don't fill froman empty cup, make sure that
your that your cup is fullbefore you feel someone else's.
Because of course, as you'resaying, We can't be so rigid and
just saying no, no, no, becausethen you're going to lean
towards the opposite side ofbeing more selfish. So we have
(27:39):
to find that balance. And a lotof times people will actually
struggle with finding thatbalance. Because if you're on
one end of the spectrum of beingcompletely selfless, and you are
starting to inch towards themiddle, you're going to think
you're completely selfish,because it's such a drastic
change of where you were before.
So again, feeling comfortablewithin that, and how we can
(27:59):
notice where that balance is,is. Don't, if you're going to
say yes to someone else, makesure that you're not saying no
to yourself. So you have toacknowledge that if you are
okay, if you are mentally stableand comfortable with where you
(28:21):
are, you're not just droppingeverything for somebody else,
you are able to say yes tosomebody else, then say yes to
that. But if you are going tosay no to yourself first and
your needs, then it's okay tosay no to somebody else.
Kira Yakubov Ploshansky (28:41):
I like that distinction, right? If
we're gonna say yes, make sureit's not you're saying no to
yourself. Yeah. And I think withtime and practice, right, there
can be exceptions. And we can bemandible, right? Like, because
there's going to be times where,you know, we made a promise to
somebody or we have acommitment, and we're no longer
in the right headspace or itdoesn't make sense anymore for
(29:03):
us. So sometimes we're going towant to say no, right? Other
times, we're going to want tosit okay, like, is this regular
for this relationship? Like, isthis normal for me to constantly
be doing things and saying yes,or the other person is expecting
me to drop everything for them?
Or are they generally veryrespectful of my time,
considerate of me, and I've madea commitment and I need to show
(29:26):
up because I have to followthrough what I say. I think that
can be really tough, sometimesthose gray areas, and I think
that that comes later down theline, to feel more comfortable
making those decisions, but likein the beginning, kind of
focusing on the ones that are alittle bit more clear. And make
more sense in the beginning oflike, clearly I'm not in the
(29:48):
right headspace. If I don't goon this coffee date with my
friend, nothing bad's gonnahappen. I haven't canceled
before I really don't feel well.
I'm just gonna let them know Ican't make it, right?
Gabrielle Larin (30:01):
It's all about balance. And in order to get
that balance sometimes in thebeginning, as you're saying, we
have to be more selfish tounderstand that it's okay to put
ourselves first, once we arecomfortable with putting
ourselves first, then we canfind that balance of
understanding that sometimes wewon't be 100%. But we still can
(30:22):
say yes to somebody else. Soit's about finding that balance.
Kira Yakubov Ploshansky (30:28):
And I think another big part is, when
you were mentioning earlier,you're like, Oh, I feel like a
burden. Or I feel like a badperson, right? If I do this,
like to ask people like, well,if someone did that to you,
would you be upset with them?
No, I would never, I wouldtotally understand, it'd be
totally fine. I'm like, really?
So why does the rule change foryou? Why are you the only one
(30:53):
that this is a burden, or you'rea bad friend, or this is
horrible? But you get to beconsiderate of everybody else's
feeling? Why can't anybody elsebe considerate of you?
Gabrielle Larin (31:04):
Yep. I will tell somebody to ask themselves
in those situations, you know,pretend that you are asking a
friend instead of yourself. Anda lot of times the answers will
change somebody else then No,no, it's okay. Everything would
be fine. If they did that, youknow, I wouldn't care. Okay,
well, maybe treat yourself asthat friend.
Kira Yakubov Ploshansky (31:29):
And to kind of go along with the this
the self reflection that youmentioned earlier to like some
tips for people with somepractical things they can do. I
remember when I was like,starting out with this,
especially when I was going totherapy for myself and like,
working through this process iskind of reflecting like, when I
am thinking about someonecalling me, right when like
(31:52):
checking in with myself in mybody, right? Like, if I get a
phone call from somebody, and ifI see this particular name, how
do I feel? Do I feel like theyfeel drained? Do I feel like I
don't want to pick it up? Do Ifeel like oh, I have to get
ready for this call, right?
Versus like, Oh, I'm excited topick up this phone call where
I'm excited to see this person,right, like, what comes up for
you in your body before, duringand after spending time or
(32:13):
communicating with a particularperson. If it is perpetually
feeling like it's an obligation,like you don't feel great about
it, you're left feeling kind oficky afterwards, thinking about
what kind of boundary do I needto set then. And sometimes you
don't always have to verbalizethat boundary. Right? It could
just be an internal one of, I'mnot going to pick up the phone
(32:36):
they call and that that you'reallowed to do that. Right? Like,
or I'm going to text them back,or I'll call them back at my
leisure when I have more time.
Or I'm not going to make planswith them as frequently. Right?
Like really, when you're sayingtaking inventory is like
checking in with yourself, like,how do you feel around
(32:56):
particular people? before,during and after? And is there
something different you can door show up in a different way to
maintain that relationship, ifyou want to maintain it? Or
maybe part of this process, yourealize, like, this relationship
is really made out ofobligation. And we don't
necessarily want relationshipslike that. I mean, sometimes we
(33:19):
will write if they're familymembers or, you know, work, like
coworkers where like, there'sgoing to be certain situations
where like, yes, they're goingto be in our life. But we can
limit the amount of time wespend with them talking to them
about what and how much theyimpact us.
Gabrielle Larin (33:37):
Right? I love that. Because you are
acknowledging your feelingsbased off of the person and
seeing the pattern, I'm very bigon patterns. And if you know,
one day you just don't feel liketalking to them, that's fine.
But it continuously becomes apattern, then that's telling you
something about how you'refeeling based off of the other
(34:01):
person's feelings towards you.
So it's, it's about arelationship, you know, it goes
back and forth. It's not just aone way. So I love that.
Kira Yakubov Ploshansky (34:12):
Yeah, I think a big part of this too, is
knowing that through thisprocess, you may lose some
relationships. And that's okay.
And that's okay. Right. Like, Ithink it feels a lot scarier in
the beginning. Because then wethink, Well, I'm gonna lose all
my friendships. I mean, it wasall my relationships. But no,
that's not true, right? Like ittakes time to set these
(34:33):
boundaries, feel outrelationships, see if they make
sense for you. But I think asyou do this work, you recognize
that like, some of theserelationships, like even though
they've already not beensatisfying, you become less and
less engaged in them because youstart recognizing like, I'm not
actually getting anything out ofthis friendship or this
relationship, right? If I don'tput in all the work, if I'm not
(34:56):
the only one reaching out outwere like bending over
backwards. Doesn't reallynothing's going on, like
nothing's happening. I'm notgaining anything from this
right? And like, like you said,if it's a one sided
relationship, you have to reallythink about like, Is that worth
my time and energy? When afterI've been reflecting, have these
other people in my life, thatit's very reciprocal. I feel
(35:17):
great afterwards. So like,shifting away a little bit is a
natural part of this, too.
Gabrielle Larin (35:27):
Yeah. And I think that that's important to
acknowledge as well, it'sshifting away a little bit.
Whereas a lot of times, peoplewill think they just have to
fully cut them off. And that'sit, where you can still have
that person in your life. Youcan you want them in your life,
keep them in your life, as longas you are helping yourself
through that making sure thatyou're okay through that you can
(35:50):
distance them, you can putyourself at a distance, put them
at a distance, and continue therelationship based off as your
comfortability, where are youcomfortable with that
relationship? If it's, you know,over here, that's great. If it's
closer, that's great. It'scutting them off completely.
That's great. It it's about thatbalance. It's about finding
(36:12):
what's right for you, not whatis necessarily Constable,
because you've been used to itfor so long.
Kira Yakubov Plosha (36:20):
Absolutely.
Yeah. I think a big part ofthese two is also recognizing
when you're internally likereally mad at somebody, but they
don't know. Right? Like, are youperpetually angry at somebody or
annoyed with somebody or feelingpassive aggressive towards
somebody, right? Because I thinka lot of times, we might be mad
at someone because they didn'tshow up a particular way.
(36:42):
Because we were expecting themto because we always do. Like,
well, I'm always there for you,I always do this, I'm always
willing to, you know, yaddayadda yadda. But this other
person isn't a people pleaser.
And they're not going toprioritize your feelings over
theirs. And that's notnecessarily a bad thing. But if
(37:04):
your expectation is that and youdon't share that with them, or
you're angry with them, and theydon't know, I think it's also
checking in with yourself, like,are these realistic
expectations? Like, am I justover giving? Or are they being
rude? Right, there's adifference.
Gabrielle Larin (37:20):
That's a very important distinction. A lot of
times people will say, You knowwhat, if I'm doing that, then I
should expect somebody else todo that in return. Everybody's
different. Everybody reactsdifferently. Everybody loves
differently, everybody connectsdifferently, we're all
different. And we want to giveoff in different ways than other
(37:43):
people want to give off and takein different ways. So I've seen
like, communicating that is soimportant, and being open with
people in your life. Because ifyou do love this person, and the
person loves you, then youshould feel comfortable in terms
of communicating what you want,and how you want to be
(38:05):
supported. Because then you candevelop a stronger bond with
that person. Mm hmm.
Kira Yakubov Ploshansky (38:14):
And that's a big part, right? That
we, I think we've been dancingaround, but not necessarily like
identifying is communicating isa lot of this means you're going
to have to communicate what youactually feel and want and
expect. Or if you're upset bysomething, expressing that too.
Gabrielle Larin (38:35):
Right. And that's the tough part is
vulnerability, being okay withbeing vulnerable. And a lot of
times people don't want to feelvulnerable, because that
vulnerability makes them feellike they can get hurt. And what
we were saying before, you know,that people pleasing is the same
(38:56):
fears of, or similar fears offeeling vulnerable, they don't
want to feel like they shouldget abandoned, or they don't
want to feel like there is goingto be conflict within that
vulnerability. So it's difficultto communicate your needs, and
feel that vulnerability at thesame time.
Kira Yakubov Ploshansky (39:19):
Yeah, so communicating vulnerability,
all these fun things thateveryone comes to us for. It's
all right, but it's alsoreminding people like these are
baby steps. Like, no one'strying to rip the band aid off.
This is a process like, no, andyou're not gonna stick with it,
(39:43):
right? If we just rip off a bandaid and like, Go tell your best
friend, you're sick of theirshit. And you're right, like,
no, we want to easy. I mean,eventually, yeah, you want to
tell them but in a differentway, you know, follow
Gabrielle Larin (39:58):
the baby steps first. That's it.
Kira Yakubov Ploshansky (40:02):
Yeah.
And I think a couple things thatreally helped me through this
process that I've kind ofrelayed to clients too is, it's
hard to trust somebody, whenthey're constantly people
pleasing is also an unpopularopinion, right is, if you're not
genuine with how you feel, and Iknow that you are scared to tell
me how you feel, or to tellother people generally, if
(40:25):
you're upset by something, I'mgoing to have a harder time
trusting you when you tell me,oh, everything's fine. Because I
don't believe you. Because Iknow that you're not likely to
share if something's upsettingyou. And I know that because
that's how I used to be right,like, Oh, it's fine, it's fine.
And like, you can't really builda lot of trust off of that when
later you realize, no, it wasn'tfine. And I wanted to know if I
(40:46):
hurt you, and I gave you theopportunity, but you still
didn't tell me for people tolike recognize not to make them
feel bad. But to realize, like,you know, it doesn't make you
come off as trustworthy. Ifyou're never upset by something
when clearly you are, or clearlysomeone in this position would
be. And
Gabrielle Larin (41:09):
that would be a perfect example of a baby step,
if somebody is giving you thatopportunity to share that, take
them up on that. And, you know,you don't have to just unload
everything, but share a littlebit at a time so that you can
release some of that pressure,you can release some of that
within yourself. And it's goingto feel very uncomfortable. But
(41:31):
as we were saying before, you'regoing to feel uncomfortable, but
it's right for you in the longrun, you're going to have this
release, and it's going to feellike a stronger connection with
that person, once you're done.
And you're going to feel betterabout yourself, because that
confidence is slowly creepingup.
Kira Yakubov Ploshansky (41:50):
Yeah, right. You can be like who I did
the scary thing. It's not aboutthe outcome or the result
necessarily, because we can'tcontrol how someone's gonna
react to it, we just cannot wehave to release that. But I can
be proud that I did a scarything. It was uncomfortable, and
I leaned into it. And that's abig deal. Exactly.
Gabrielle Larin (42:09):
And that is so important. A lot of times people
will focus on the outcome. Butit's so important to acknowledge
that even if you're going toupset somebody else, you are
making yourself better.
Kira Yakubov Ploshansky (42:23):
And kind of like a final. A final
note of this is to not takethings so personally. Which I
mean, was it much easier saidthan done, right. But I think
when we recognize that, likeeveryone is kind of just trying
to do their best based on like,their level of awareness and
(42:43):
healing and understanding andyou know, relational skills,
everyone is in a different spotand have other things going on
in their life that we really maynot know about. So if someone
acts a particular way, insteadof immediately personalizing and
saying, Oh, they must be mad atme, they must hate me, I must
(43:04):
have done something wrong. Now,maybe there's just something
else going on. And you know,maybe if they are upset with me,
because I needed to do thisthing for myself, like, okay,
like releasing that control orreleasing that need to be
perceived a particular way.
Like, I'm not going to take thispersonally, they're allowed to
be upset with this behavior. Itdoes not make me a bad person.
Gabrielle Larin (43:29):
And that's, that's very important. And also,
it's not going to last forever.
And if it does last forever,maybe that relationship isn't
right for you.
Kira Yakubov Ploshansky (43:37):
There you go. Feelings are temporary
everybody.
Gabrielle Larin (43:42):
And they're a roller coaster, they will go up
and down. And sometimes thoseyou know negative emotions will
come back and then once weprocess them, we'll learn how to
deal with it again.
Kira Yakubov Ploshansky (43:56):
So Gabby, is there any final final
tips or notes for the listenersaround this topic or anything
you'd want to share with them?
Gabrielle Larin (44:05):
If you are struggling with people pleasing,
and you want to start somewheredon't know if I'm like allowed
to say this, but fuck everybodyelse.
Kira Yakubov Ploshansky (44:17):
You want to say whatever you want.
There's not a censored podcast.
Gabrielle Larin (44:24):
The first step is tell yourself like everybody
else and put yourself first onceyou start feeling a little bit
more comfortable with that, thenyou can start to get that
balance and understanding. Okay,now I am more comfortable with
that. And I can start tounderstand how to keep the
balance of putting others firstand putting myself first but
(44:45):
first fuck everybody else.
Kira Yakubov Ploshansky (44:47):
And then later, it's like okay,
well, I can give a fuck aboutyou and maybe you not so much
over there.
Gabrielle Larin (44:53):
Find that balance afterwards.
Kira Yakubov Ploshansky (44:55):
That's awesome. Gabby, thank you so
much for being on with us today.
I think this has been reallyhelpful and insightful. I hope
listeners really get a lot ofinformation from this. If anyone
wants to work with Gabby she hasa limited availability you can
definitely reach out to healyour roots wellness.com To
schedule a consultation and workwith her but Gabby thanks so
much.
Gabrielle Larin (45:16):
Thank you I had a great time.
Kira Yakubov Ploshansky (45:18):
If you enjoyed this episode, please
remember to like subscribe andshare so the message can you get
out
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