March 6, 2025 • 60 mins
Discover the profound impact of forgiveness in our latest episode, where we journey through the complex narratives of healing and personal growth. Join hosts Nina Ganguli and Lynn Herod-DeVerges as they unveil the transformative power of forgiveness, highlighting how it can shift our consciousness and reclaim our dignity in the face of life’s challenges.
In this thought-provoking discussion, we explore how forgiveness is not merely about letting go of past grievances but is instead a powerful act of self-liberation. Through heartfelt stories and reflective insights, we examine how forgiveness can lead to radical acceptance of ourselves and others and pave the way toward a more empowered and joyful existence.
Listeners will learn practical strategies to integrate forgiveness into their lives, recognizing the importance of emotional processing and the lessons that accompany painful experiences. The conversation encourages embracing vulnerability, compassion, and the remarkable growth that can stem from difficulties faced.
Join us as we invite you to reflect on your own experiences with forgiveness and how it shapes your healing. Whether you’re at the beginning of your journey or seeking deeper understanding, this episode offers rich insights and encouragement for all.
Don’t forget to subscribe and share your thoughts with us! Your feedback helps foster this community of healing and growth. Let this journey inspire you to reclaim your power and transform your life through the gift of forgiveness.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to Healers Talk Healing, the podcast where
we gather to explore the art andscience of holistic healing,
uncovering the secrets to ahappier, healthier you.
I'm your host, nina Ganguly,and together we will delve into
the intriguing world of holistichealing, delving into the
mind-body connection, ancientwisdom and natural remedies to
(00:27):
the mind-body connection,ancient wisdom and natural
remedies.
Get ready for enlighteningstories, thought-provoking
expert interviews and practicaltips that will empower you to
unlock your true potential andembrace a vibrant, balanced life
.
Whether you're an experiencedwellness enthusiast or simply
curious about the power ofhealing, join us on this
exhilarating journey as we sharethe wisdom and insights that
(00:47):
can truly transform your life.
It's time to embark on a voyagetowards a happier, healthier
you.
So, without further ado, let'sdive into the captivating world
of Healers Talk Healing.
Welcome to this episode ofHealers Talk Healing.
Join Lynn Harrod-Divergis and I, nina Ganguly, in a deep,
(01:10):
transformative conversationabout healing, growth and the
power of forgiveness.
In today's episode, we explorehow forgiveness is not just
about letting go, but it's aboutreclaiming our power, shifting
our consciousness and embracingpersonal growth.
Through personal stories,reflections and insights, we
(01:30):
uncover how radical acceptanceand forgiveness can free us from
past pain and open the door toa more peaceful, empowered life.
Whether you're on a healingjourney or just beginning to
explore the power ofself-awareness, this episode
would leave you with profoundinsights and practical wisdom.
Speaker 2 (01:49):
So take a deep breath , settle in and let's dive into
this powerful conversation onhealing, transformation and the
miracles that come withforgiveness full of miracles are
10 stories, as I said, that areexcerpts of different
(02:10):
experiences in my life, andthere's one that's called
(02:30):
Forgive, and I think Forgive isa very poignant aspect of what
we need to do in order to grow,Because without forgiveness
there is no growth, withoutforgiveness there is no learning
or becoming woke.
That's still a decent word or apopular word, but to forgive is
(02:52):
to shift consciousness from outthere to in here.
That's what forgiveness reallyis, and I believe that so many
people, because we have beentaught and because we are beings
(03:14):
who sometimes have a challengetaking responsibility for things
, looking at our own stuff andall of that and so what we do is
we want to put it on someoneelse, something else or what
(03:35):
have you.
Yes, there are circumstances inlife that do come up and happen
, but the reality is no one doesanything to us, nothing happens
to us, nothing happens to us inspecifically.
Yes, there are circumstances welive through, but, as human
(03:57):
beings who are here in thetimeframe that we are, our sole
focus purpose, whether we'reaware of it or not, is growth.
It's what we do automatically.
Speaker 1 (04:15):
I agree 100%.
And hey, welcome into ourconversation today on Healers
Talk Healing with the incredibleLynn Herod-Divergis and myself,
nina Ganguly, and it looks liketoday we're going to be talking
about forgiveness, which is oneof my favorite topics.
Actually, I have read a bookcalled Radical Forgiveness.
(04:38):
It's actually on my deskbecause I just my friend of mine
was asking well, book, shouldmy um book club read there into
growth and spiritual growth?
There she's a with a yoga group.
Let me think, let me think andI'm like radical forgiveness, I
think it's a, it's, it's reallyall about what you were saying.
(05:04):
It's kind of stepping back andlooking at okay.
So if I want a certain thing inlife, which is most people are
looking for happiness, joy,peace, however they come to it
at the end, you know, not at theend of the day, but throughout
their journey, however they theycome to that happiness or peace
(05:26):
, joy it.
I I do believe it starts withthat looking at your life and
looking where you can makechoices and have, have that um,
that saying okay, to me,forgiveness.
So I'm going all over the roadbecause there's so much in here
(05:47):
that wants to come out, but tome, literally, forgiveness is,
is aligned with radicalacceptance.
Okay, none of us can change thecircumstances that have passed
and yet we sit and ruminateabout.
Well, I had said this, I wishthis has happened.
(06:07):
I wish I had never met thisperson, had this conversation,
taken this job, bought this car,whatever it may be.
Speaker 2 (06:14):
That is sort of in in the way that you're ruminating
about, and I know I'm aruminator for sure well, I I
think everyone is, you know indifferent ways and to different
extents, but what's interestingabout what you're saying is that
, without all of those thingsthat you, that one wishes they
(06:38):
hadn't done or had donedifferently, or oh man, you know
, if only I had a and all ofthat, those are the things that
brought you to where you aretoday, and wouldn't you say that
today you are at your best self, more so than yesterday?
Speaker 1 (07:00):
Yes, and you know, just to get a little more into
that conversation, I had to do alot of accepting and forgiving
in order to see the lesson.
If I hadn't done the acceptingand the forgiving, I wouldn't
have been able to now look backand say, oh okay, oh okay, and
(07:26):
it's an individual thing.
Some people may look at it andsay there's no lesson there, and
some people will say, okay,there was a lesson.
But I'm looking at my you knowmy history and saying, okay, now
I understand why this happenedor why this, you know, fell into
place.
And yeah, it was not fun, itwas, it was actually horrible
and but I can take what it'smeant to teach me.
I can grow from there, I can do.
(07:47):
I am who I am because of all ofthe things that have happened
and what happened in my life,all of those dreams and wishes
you wanted to be fulfilled anddidn't get fulfilled.
We always talk about the thingsthat have happened, but there's
also a lot of things that wewanted that didn't happen, that
ended up being for our greatergood, and also forgiving those
(08:13):
things that didn't work outSorry, not that didn't work out,
but like didn't happen.
That you wanted to happen, yes,I so badly wanted to become a
project manager, so badly.
I took the lessons, you know.
I went to school, I did someextra courses and I applied many
times to be a project managerand it never happened.
Speaker 2 (08:38):
Which clearly was not meant to happen.
And yet I use those skills allthe time, of course.
And yet I use those skills allthe time Of course.
(08:59):
And I was just going to say yetyou're still a project manager
in what you do, whether it bethe feelings we have around it,
and ask ourselves is that reallythe essence of the way we want
(09:25):
to move forward?
Or should we just take theessence of what we've gained
from that situation to forgive?
Forgive ourselves, it's all.
Typically, it's always aboutforgiving yourself because, we
spoke before about what everyonethat you see interact with have
(09:45):
a relationship with experienceis you, so how can it be
something outside of you whenyou're the person that's always
in the story?
Speaker 1 (10:04):
So in our experience, in the story, this is true,
right?
So in our experience of life,we tend to forget that it's our
experience of life and it is.
It's like that's my movie.
I'm the director, I'm the, theactor, I'm the story writer, I'm
(10:27):
the I'm all of it, the producer, and so it is always an inside
job always, always, constantly.
Speaker 2 (10:39):
So I wrote this little book oh my gosh, what
year are we in?
So this must have been 27 yearsago and it's called Pocketful
of Miracles and it's 10 truestories of what I considered
(11:01):
miracles, but a lesson with eachmiracle.
And before our coming togetherthis morning, I was reading one
of the stories and I'm like oh,wow, and it was a story of
forgiveness.
And I was like, hmm, okay, sothat was the beginning.
(11:22):
That experience as parts of itwere wonderful and parts of it
didn't feel as wonderfulactually, on a whole was one of
the best experiences I couldhave had, because it was a
(11:42):
precursor that led me to where Iam today.
Without that experience, notonly would I not have really
delved deeper sooner aroundforgiveness, but I also would
have just continued to movealong in the same consciousness,
(12:07):
and I guarantee you I wouldprobably be an executive VP, you
know, at some bank, somewhere,or an attorney, instead of doing
what I'm doing now, which isthis is what I love.
This is my passion is to now,which is this is what I love
(12:27):
this is my passion is to assistpeople in their own journey and
their growth and personalprocess.
So that's, you know it, justspeaks to it.
It's a short story and I'vebeen debating whether I should
read it or not, now that I'veadmitted that it's.
Speaker 1 (12:47):
I think you need to read it now.
I think the listeners are goingto be like wait a minute, you
can't leave us hanging.
You've got to share that, thatmain story, the impetus to who
you are today all right, I'llread.
Speaker 2 (12:59):
I will read it.
Um, each chapter, each storystarts actually with a quote
from A Course in Miracles.
I know some of the listenersout there may not be familiar
with A Course in Miracles, butit's a powerfully written book
that you cannot just read withyour intellect, you have to read
(13:20):
it with your spirit, really,truly, and there are many people
around the globe who helpinterpret it.
But anyway, it starts with thisthis is the Course in Miracles.
Can you imagine how beautifulthose you forgive will look to
you?
Nothing that you remember, thatmade your heart sing with joy,
(13:43):
has ever brought you even alittle part of the happiness
this sight will bring you, foryou will see the Son of God.
I think it's just a beautifulquote, and that's how I feel,
also about forgiveness, becausewhen you see the Son of God,
you're seeing yourself again,reflected back, right, okay, so
(14:07):
here's the story.
I've changed the names toprotect the guilty.
Speaker 1 (14:15):
Love that.
Speaker 2 (14:17):
All right.
So Barbara, young and naive,was talked into a blind date by
her friend Shirley.
The arrangement was thatBarbara would be at Shirley's
house for a visit around thetime Henry was expected.
He was Shirley's tenant.
Shirley had really talked himup, describing Henry as a man
with a good sense of humor wholiked to have fun.
(14:40):
He was a fantastic musician and, of course, incredibly handsome
.
When Barbara arrived for hermeeting, shirley took it upon
herself to show Barbara some ofHenry's photo albums so she
could get a look at how gorgeousHenry was.
For Barbara, those photo albumsrevealed a lot more than just
(15:02):
Henry's looks.
He had pictures of girls fromall over the world with
descriptive captions of what heliked, detailing what he
remembered most about each one.
This was his collection ofwomen stretching from port to
port.
Barbara decided right then andthere she would only meet this
(15:26):
man, but nothing else.
She was curious to see whattype of character he was, to
have collected women the waychildren do toys.
When Henry walked into the house, barbara was engaged in
conversation with a few of hisfriends who had come by just
prior to his arriving.
She acted as if she did not seehim yet out of the corner of
(15:49):
her eyes she caught a glimpse ofhim.
She noticed how he was intentlywatching her.
Finally, they were officiallyintroduced.
When Barbara looked up to greethim, she tried not to show how
taken she was with his handsomeappearance, which was
overshadowed only by hischarming demeanor, and that's
(16:12):
all it took.
Barbara knew if she asked.
Barbara knew if he asked herout, she would not be strong.
She would not be strong enoughto resist.
So much for firm thoughtfulness.
Two nights later, henry andBarbara went out on their first
date.
They fell in love and quicklymoved in together.
(16:35):
Their relationship sizzled withall of the passion young love
brings.
For the first six months it wasthe most perfect relationship
Barbara had ever experienced.
In fact it was almost tooperfect.
It wasn't long, though, beforeBarbara found out Henry was
seeing another woman being inthe Navy.
(16:55):
Henry traveled frequently.
The woman he was seeing livedin another city several hundred
miles away.
This was the nightmare Barbaraknew she might face, but hoped
she would never have to.
How foolish she was to believeshe could change him.
Sound familiar ladies, thatliving with her would be enough
(17:17):
for him.
Once she found out about theother woman, she began to
realize that the other woman wasreally one out of several other
women.
Henry was a woman magnet.
He had offers from women, theway many celebrities do.
Yet Henry never left Barbara.
(17:38):
He continuously told her howmuch he loved her.
He promised he would change,straightening up his act as long
as she didn't leave him.
For periods of time he didappear to be more attentive,
more sincere and more loving,but it only lasted until the
next woman came along.
Barbara continued to stay withHenry for three long years, with
(18:01):
many disappointments, nights oftears, fits of anguish.
The final straw came, however,when Henry took Barbara's sports
car, telling her he was goingto the store and would be back
shortly.
Henry was gone for three days.
Barbara knew, had no idea wherehe was.
(18:23):
Henry was gone.
Oh I'm sorry.
Henry was gone for three days.
Barbara knew not where.
When he called to say the shipwas leaving that day for a month
and she could pick up her carat the pier, barbara was furious
I will use the word enraged.
She screamed enough is enough.
(18:46):
When Henry returned, all of histhings were packed, waiting
outside the house for him.
He left eagerly to live withthe woman whose house he had
visited for those three dayspreviously.
But it wasn't long, though,before she told him to leave her
house too.
Having nowhere to go, he toldBarbara he missed her, asking
(19:11):
her, even begging her to takehim back.
He seemed sincere.
Barbara said uh-uh, nope, noway.
No way can I take you back.
But if you need a place to stay, I will help you for two weeks
only, so you can find anotherhome.
During the time Henry lived atthe other woman's house, barbara
(19:32):
focused on moving on with herlife.
She was angry, bitter,resentful, hating Henry and
everything he represented.
But it was an intense processfor Barbara, as she acknowledged
the anger, first at him andthen, surprisingly, at herself.
After all, she knew what typeof man he was, and she let her
(19:56):
emotions steer her into ignoringthe evidence.
Her own arrogance and thinkingshe could change him prevailed,
but in the end, all she was leftwith was the truth that, indeed
, he never did it to her.
She did it to herself.
It was a hard lesson, butBarbara woke up to the
(20:18):
realization that her arroganceand pride created an illusion,
showing her what she wanted tobelieve about herself and the
situation, instead of facingreality.
The reality was that Henry, too, had a problem, a problem with
ego.
He clung to the belief that hewas powerful because women found
(20:41):
him attractive and wanted to bewith him.
This was a false sense of power, but he was the only one who
could change himself.
Barbara found it in her heart toforgive him.
She let go of the bitterness,the anger, the resentment, the
hatred she felt for him, only todiscover she remembered the
(21:01):
good times, the happy times.
She knew she would never wantto be together with him again.
Yet she knew that in forgivingHenry she had grown far beyond
this consciousness existence.
She knew she loved him, but nolonger from an obsessive,
self-destructive place.
(21:22):
Now she came from a place ofcompassion and wishing him well
on his life's journey.
Barbara knew in her forgivenessshe had given him a greater
love.
So I ended it with to forgive isfor giving love.
It's to give love to anotherperson.
(21:42):
You may not want to see or bearound that person again, but in
your heart you want that personto thrive and do well, and
that's really part of the key toforgiveness.
It's not forgetting whathappened, but it's acknowledging
and taking responsibility rightfor yourself and your
participation in whatever it is,and therefore it's being able
(22:08):
to love the other personunconditionally and want the
best for them too.
And so the miracle is, when youforgive another, you are
divinely loving yourself as well, divinely loving yourself as
(22:29):
well.
So that's that is.
That was a very poignant periodof my life, because it was.
It was a very deep love that Iexperienced at the time and,
yeah, it really it helped turnsome things around.
Sometimes, out of great paincomes the as we begin to heal.
(22:53):
Out of great pain comes the ahamoments, the realizations, the
desire so deeply to move throughthat pain, and so it's the pain
that helps us move and takesteps toward where we need to go
(23:15):
, that then we find ourselvesnot on this path that we had
been on, which may have beenself-destructive which was, in
my case, self-destructive butyou move on another path that
really opens your life in awhole different way.
So forgiveness is a powerful,powerful thing, and it's okay to
(23:39):
be angry and upset and shoutand scream and, in your mind,
blame and all of those things,but at some point, if you really
want to live the kind of lifeand experience the things that
you choose to experience, youcannot hold on to that energy.
You have to be able to forgiveand then you can really move on.
Speaker 1 (24:04):
Yeah, I think, inside of your story and inside of
other stories that I've heardabout forgiveness, or talking to
people who are not in thatspace, have not gotten there.
It's the word itself.
It's like for me that I havethis word, this feeling around
(24:25):
the word submission, even thoughit's a very powerful word and
it's, you know, it depends onwhat you're submitting to and
the context in which you see theword.
So you know, there are thosewho think forgiveness is like a
giving up or a giving in orletting you off the hook sort of
(24:48):
conversation in their mind.
And it's not.
No, it's not, but it's.
It's what you said about theprocess.
It's about saying, okay, thishurt me, it made me angry, and
I'm going to process thosefeelings and I think that's
really important to inside ofthe world of forgiveness.
No one is asking anyone to be amartyr here and be like, yeah,
(25:11):
no, it's, it's, it's okay, youdid me wrong, I'm all right.
No, no, no, no.
There is the screaming, theswearing, the, the down and ugly
and deep crying and not feelingvery forgiving as you're
processing.
But I will say, based on my ownexperience, that forgiveness is
(25:38):
like a gift you give yourself.
Yes, it is a gift you giveyourself.
It is, you know, coming from,and I don't think everyone I
have not really shared on inthis podcast that you know, I
grew, I experienced abuse formany years in my life and I have
really fully forgiven my abuser.
(25:59):
Now I will put throw in acaveat that happened after their
passing.
So I just I want to be real andauthentic that I'm not sure if
what that journey would havebeen like if that person was
still in my life or still alive,but what I did learn is through
forgiveness because it did takeme a long time was that it
(26:23):
didn't take up space anymore.
Yes, it's true, it didn't takeup space in my body.
It didn't take up space in mymind.
I didn't walk around, uh,feeling anymore that I was owed
something because I sure didwalk around like, hey, I went
through this, I am owedhappiness, I am owed a reprieve,
(26:44):
and life doesn't show up thatway just by the way.
You know what I mean and in myexperience, the letting go of
how it should have been, what itshould have been, how they
should have been and theyweren't, um, has been the most,
(27:04):
the deepest gift that I havegiven myself, and it still
doesn't always come easy.
You know, you practice.
It's like a muscle like thinkabout this, we want to avoid
pain.
That's the way we were.
We kind of were throughevolution right, that's about
survival through evolution.
(27:26):
Right, that's about survival.
Avoid pain, do what you need tosurvive, to get through things,
and the pain is there to helpyou grow.
It's like when you were talking, I was thinking about muscle
mass, like when you're workingout, when you go and do a
workout, in order for yourmuscles to get stronger, to do
what they can um, to opt, towork optimally, have to tear the
(27:46):
muscle tissue, do that and then, as it repairs, it doesn't feel
very nice you know, go to thegym and when it repairs it
creates a little scar tissue andso forth.
But that's also what bulks youup or, you know, makes it, makes
you look it gives the resultsthat you're looking for, for
(28:07):
strength I'm going to talk aboutand looks and whatever it is
you want, but for those of youwho are listening and and are
not maybe sitting in that placeof hurt, sitting in that place
of pain and thinking to yourselfwhy me?
You know we all have thosethoughts.
You know they fleet through.
One of the things that helpedme was why not me?
(28:30):
I'm not any more special thananybody else, and using that
analogy of oh oh, so this islike a workout I am going
through.
I'm just going to say this ismy forgiveness workout.
I'm going to practice thisthing.
I'm going to go through thisthing.
Yeah, it's easy to talk aboutonce you've been through it and
(28:50):
you're on the other end.
However, it is truly powerfuland I love what you said about
it being divine and allowingthat divinity inside of you to
come through.
Speaker 2 (29:08):
To come through right exactly, and to see the divine
in everything else.
Know that it's also always areflection.
Here's something else, too,because we all come here for
purposes of growth and learning.
Before we enter this world asspiritual beings, even without
(29:31):
physical bodies, there arevarious things we want to learn,
and we all, whether weacknowledge it or not, which is
why I say this is an inside jobmake choices along the way how
we're going to learn thosethings.
(29:52):
I chose the relationship withhim, not consciously Well, yes,
consciously in that moment Ichose relationship with him, but
really, the bigger picture is,I chose the relationship so that
I could step into where Ineeded to be and a promise that
(30:14):
was made when I was 14 that Iwould do this work but was
trying to escape, and so, as aresult, I found my way
unconsciously to that point intime.
So, when you even look at itfrom a broader perspective, was
(30:37):
he to blame?
No, I made the choice to learnin a way that had to be so
viscerally, emotionally,mentally and even spiritually
painful that it was a okay, notdoing that again, not like that,
(30:59):
and I never have Nope, andsometimes that's what we choose,
but we have to takeresponsibility for the fact that
that's what we choose and sowhen we begin to understand
those just kind of fundamentalthings and practice so we can
(31:22):
intellectually understand it,but it may not be what I call
enriched in the, the, the soul,the spiritness of it.
Okay, cause there are a lot ofconcepts, a lot of things that
we say and other people speakabout, and all kinds of books
are written about and on and onand on.
Much of it is intellectual arewritten about and on and on and
(31:48):
on.
Much of it is intellectual.
But when you remove theintellect and you continue to
practice, you start off with the.
I have to share this realquickly.
There's a woman, well, there wasa couple who was married and
during their marriage I wish Icould remember their name you
all have to forgive me, I'm notso good at names and this has
(32:10):
been almost 40 years ago that Imet them and heard this story,
but anyway they married.
He had a teaching position in Ibelieve it was Japan or you
know one of the countriesoverseas, and she became
(32:31):
pregnant there and she was, youknow, doing whatever she did at
home.
She wasn't working, but heworked and he said you know what
, let's go to dinner latertonight.
And she said okay, and he saidso I'll be back home such and
such a time, be ready.
Well, she was ready and hedidn't come.
(32:54):
And no, I know what it was.
She went out, that's what.
She went out to the market andcame back.
And when she came back, she gotready.
He didn't come and he didn'tcome.
And then she realized shestarted checking around the
house.
He had been home while she wasgone, taking all his clothes and
(33:14):
left, left her in a foreigncountry with not knowing how to
really speak the language.
Well, uh, not having a job, hetook all the money out of the
bank account, so on and so forth.
Okay, nonetheless, she did findher way back to the States, and
(33:39):
of course she's pregnant.
So she's like, how am I goingto have this baby here?
And of course she's pregnant.
So she's like, how am I goingto have this baby here?
She was able to get back to theStates with the help of family
and friends and all she could dois think to herself I hate that
son of a so-and-so, that bleep,bleep to bleep, blam is just
(33:59):
I'm going to kick his blah, blah, blah.
But you know, on and on right.
That's all she could think.
But she out of that really verypainful experience.
(34:22):
What she recognized was okay,well, you know, I have this
beautiful child.
And so she was, as she wasthinking and seeing her child
and mothering her child, shewould think, well, at least he
left me with something decent.
But that son of a duck.
And anyway, long story short,she actually moved into the
ministry.
She actually moved into theministry and one of the things
(34:49):
that she knew she had to do wasforgive him, because that anger,
that bitterness, was alsoattracting experiences to her
that she didn't want.
You know how so many people sayI'm a good person.
Why did this happen to me?
Well, maybe you're holding onto something internally that is
so deep and still, when youthink about it or speak about it
has such a visceral reactionthat could be an energy that's
(35:12):
attracting some experiences youmay not want to have.
Just saying Possible.
And so, anyway, she changedno-transcript.
Intellectually, she knew she hadto forgive him, she knew that
(35:34):
she needed to move along adifferent road, but it was the
process that helped her moveinto forgiveness on a very
authentic level, because shestarted off with I forgive you,
you such and such and so.
And so I forgive you, you, yousuch and such and so, and so I
(35:57):
forgive you.
I'm not feeling it yet, but you, I forgive you.
And she did that consistentlyfor several times a day for
months until a point came whereshe went I forgive you.
(36:20):
So you know, whatever his namewas, I forgive you.
And then she's like okay, Iwasn't, I wasn't calling him the
MF word or the that, and thatthat's a little different.
And then so she continued, andthen she you know, she's kind of
checking in with herself, rightand then she said, oh, I truly
(36:43):
forgive you, oh, I forgive you.
And so she continued to theplace where she honestly and
earnestly forgave him andforgave him so much so.
And when that lifted and shewent into forgiveness, she
literally met her soulmate.
He met his soulmate.
(37:05):
What she came to understand isthat, because of how she was, he
could no longer stay with herfor his own survival, if you
will.
Although he never expressed it,she realized that she could not
have stayed with him, andprobably wouldn't have, if they
had moved back to the Statestogether and moved forward.
(37:27):
But at the place where it wasleft in the story, they both
married other people, they bothbecame great friends, and even
when he was having somechallenges with his current wife
at that time as a minister.
Now she was doing marriagecounseling with them, wow.
(37:49):
So it's a great story, but it'sa true story about forgiveness.
She was honest about it.
She didn't just go okay, I needto forgive, so I forgive you.
No, she was like I'm just, I'mgonna, I'm saying this out loud,
(38:10):
I'm writing it out, I'mexpressing it, but I don't.
I, my heart's not feelingforgiveness, but my mouth will
say it anyway.
And that was the process untilher, her words which they which,
(38:30):
by the way, sound reverberatesgoes out into the universe and
comes back to you because itrecognizes your voice within
seven seconds, which is why whatyou say and the words you use
are very powerful.
That's just a little side note.
We can talk about that anothertime.
Oh yeah, so as she can continueto say the words, it's coming
(38:56):
back to her and it's resonating,and so it just continues to
resonate and the vibration evenof the words I forgive you, it
has a higher resonance.
And so, as you continue to dothat, as she continued to do
that, she moved into actualforgiveness.
And up until that time, shewent to school to be a minister.
(39:21):
She was raising this child onher own.
It was a struggle.
She went through a lot ofchallenges and had no money, had
not a lot of anything, and shewas still going through her
process.
Not a lot of anything and shewas still going through her
process.
But once she really let it go,she met her soulmate.
Speaker 1 (39:41):
Once I was able to forgive and continue along my
journey, I connected with, sawme it's, it's very, very
powerful and you know it, I'm,I'm, I'm sometimes I'm at a loss
(40:04):
at words of how powerful thattool has been.
And you're so right when you'retaught.
When you were sharing the storyof the couple I was just
thinking about, I remember onetime being in a it's really
weird I was in a corporatetraining and that's when I
learned fake it till you, makeit.
And and what was interestingwas this it's not a story about
(40:27):
forgiveness, but I'm actually Ijust want to dive deep into that
quick like this practice, thispractice of like, okay, I'm
going to show up and and I'mgoing to try to be forgiving,
I'm going to take on what theI'm going to put that coat on.
So one of the things I rememberwas I was having a hard time
was after my father had passedaway.
I was having a hard time atwork and we had done this
(40:49):
training and one of the thingsshe said was you know, sometimes
in the corporate environmentyou may not feel like being in
there, but when you're in aleadership position, you have to
show up as a leader.
And there are days when youdon't want to or you literally
cannot, and you have to, likefake it till you make it.
And so I was.
You know, I was struggling atwork and therefore my
(41:10):
performance was struggling and Ilead a team, so their
performance was struggling.
And I remember hearing fake ittill you make it.
Like, okay, I'm going to fakeit, I'm going to walk in and I'm
going to be the top performingsupervisor, like that, I'm,
that's who I'm going to walk inas, even if I don't feel like it
.
So I'd walk in every day.
I had the top performing team.
(41:31):
Or we were at the bottom of thebucket.
I have the top performing team.
Oh, we were at the bottom ofthe bucket.
I have the top performing team.
I am the top performer.
I am going to inspire my teamevery day.
So I'd walk around and say helloto each one of them, even
though I was like, don't feellike saying hello to you.
You know, I had all the thingsgoing on your performances, like
you know.
I just wanted to blame them.
I wanted to blame my boss, Iwanted to blame everybody else
(41:52):
yes, my dad for dying.
You know, like everything, Ijust wanted to do the blame game
.
But every day I walked down theaisles, I said hello to my team
.
I said hello to my colleagues,I sat at my desk and I probably
work like this.
However, I put on the face andover time, you're, it just
(42:14):
magically happened.
I was not faking it anymore, Iwas walking in and so glad to be
there and saying hi to my teamand connecting with them.
Cause what that did?
It allowed me now to connectwith them in a way that I
probably wouldn't have connected.
So all of those circumstancesnot come to play had I not done
the practice of stepping intothat piece and when I'm talking
(42:38):
and we bring it back toforgiveness, even, you know,
trying to forgive my abuser.
It was a every day.
Okay, the memory comes up,process the memory, let go of
the memory.
For me, I had to be like, okay,I wouldn't be here this way and
the way that I am if all ofthose things hadn't led me to
(43:00):
this point.
And really, what I got out ofthe whole lesson, believe it or
not, was forgiveness Like atsuch a level that there are
people who are like I can'tbelieve that you were able to
forgive that person.
And I said it wasn't about theperson, I had to.
I had to let go of trying toforgive, even if the person was
(43:22):
still alive.
To forgive them alive or deadis irrelevant.
Right.
Speaker 2 (43:29):
It really was.
Speaker 1 (43:30):
I was so angry, like angry, and I got to the point
where I was.
I was like I was.
I couldn't even be with my ownself anymore.
Speaker 2 (43:42):
Like, okay, that's kind of tough when you can't be
with yourself.
Speaker 1 (43:46):
And so it's like, okay, well, we need to process
this and I need to forgive andit was a practice.
It actually took me years, itwasn't.
It took me years to forgive, atthe level that, if I heard a
name, had a memory, somethinghappened.
I didn't have a visceralreaction to it.
Speaker 2 (44:06):
No, it absolutely makes sense.
And I had a situation where Iwas raped when I was very young.
I was only five and Icompletely forgot about it.
But going through my process,it wasn't until I was 33 that
(44:29):
the memory of it came up.
But it wasn't just the memory,it was, as you said, the visual.
I could smell his breath, Icould feel him on me, I could
feel him in me, I could see Iwas in the room again.
All of that and I process.
I process through it at thattime, through meditation.
(44:51):
This is why I also know I hadbeen meditating already for
about four years, but it broughtme to the point where I had to
call that up from deep within,even though I forgot about it.
I had to really call it up tolet go of it.
That was the reason for it,because I'm like, I'm a good
(45:14):
meditator.
Why is this coming up?
Why does it?
Why I'm like, oh my God, itwasn't, it was not just the
thought of it, I actuallyrelived it as if I was in the
moment.
That's how deep it was.
And when it started coming out,it took me three months, Like
(45:35):
well, I had always met.
I always meditate twice a day,but even meditating, like in
between, that to like I got toclear this stuff out, you know,
to fully release it.
But when I did, when I did andof course this person had long
since passed away because he waslike a great grand uncle and so
(45:58):
what I came to realize as I'mmeditating and so I clear it out
, I'm like, oh, my God, Thankyou so much for that experience.
I mean, I wasn't even thinkingit, it's what was inside of me,
(46:18):
it was the thank you, Thank youfor that experience.
Wait, what If that act at theage of five had not happened in
the way that it did, of five hadnot happened in the way that it
did, I truly would not be whereI am now.
(46:46):
And part of my journey, even inreference to men, was always
connected back to that situationthat I had no awareness of,
right, Right.
So when I read the story aboutmy, you know, wonderful beloved
teacher that's what I call himnow, my beloved teacher that was
kind of like the.
(47:06):
It's like the scab that's on awound, but the reality is the
wound never healed, because thatwound is so deep and so far
back that it looked like it hadhealed.
Because you know, here's thescab.
Yeah, but with the experience Iread earlier and you ripped
that scab off and I did go intoforgiveness and all of that
(47:31):
which was beautiful and all ofthat which was beautiful.
But it also let me know that youknow, because of the pain
there's some more things Ineeded to do which is how I got
started, and then it became timeto now, after you know, having
become ordained, after startingthis work for about four years
(47:54):
later, that's when I realized,oh, my consciousness is able to
remember and the wound to thecore so that it can be released
(48:14):
and, you know, so forth.
So even when I think of himtoday and I talk about him, I
have no more visceral reactionof anything on any level, and
the only thing I feel for myabuser is true divine love.
That's all I experience.
And the same thing with mybeloved teacher in the story.
(48:35):
When I think of him, all I feelis just, you know, a wonderful
kind of divine love, but there'sno more of that longing and
that heart and stuff and all ofthat's gone yeah, and and you
know time is is, take advantageof it when you, when you have
(48:57):
the time to, to, to do the, theprocessing, and I feel the same
way.
Speaker 1 (49:01):
I've said thank you as well, thank you for teaching
me, because there's this bookcalled Radical Forgiveness.
I think I talked about italready and I really love that
book.
But one of the things that Ireally got from reading that
particular book was about whatyou said.
When we come and we come tolearn lessons and he talks about
(49:26):
it's Colin tipping who wrotethe book.
He talks about the soulcontracts that we make, like we
literally have a tribe of peoplewe travel through with and this
might be a little hard for somepeople to understand, but it's
a belief that I have that youknow, if we are souls and we've
come here to learn some lessons,we actually and we forget what
those are, because otherwisethen you wouldn't learn lesson.
(49:46):
You have this conversation witha group of other souls and you
say, hey, here we are at a table, these are the lessons I want
to learn.
What are the lessons you wantto learn?
What do you want to learn?
What do you want to learn?
Speaker 2 (49:58):
And how are we going to serve each other?
Speaker 1 (50:00):
Yeah, how are we going to serve each other?
How is this all going to playout?
And then, and then you go andhave the play, you, you go play
a game and the game is somethingyou requested, you initiated,
initiated, and all the playersare doing exactly what you had
asked them to do.
When I got that for myself, oror that worked for me, it may
(50:20):
not work for everybody else, buthaving a lot of thoughts saying
, wait a minute, I asked forthis, like from the perspective
of I wanted to learn this lessonand this is the way it had to
play out for me to learn thelesson.
Oh well, thank you, you didyour job and you did it really
well.
That is where I was able tofinally like, like I told you,
it took years, it was bits andpieces of chipping away at, you
(50:44):
know, over, over, like 20 yearsof abuse.
It does like that forgivenessdidn't happen to happen for me
right away, but when Iunderstood that and I was able
to to see that, it was like, oh,okay, well, gosh, thank you.
And then, every time after that, I thought about you know, you
(51:04):
don't remember every singlething.
Every time you have a pain orsomething like that.
Right, so you're, I thought tomyself.
Every time it comes up, I'm like, oh well, this me resilient,
thank you, this true.
Well, this made me resilient.
Thank you, this taught me howto be compassionate.
Oh, thank you.
Oh, this is supposed to beteaching me about boundaries.
(51:25):
Huh, okay, thank you.
Now it doesn't happen just likethat.
It is a process, and for me,I'm a talker, so for me, I I've
just been very blessed to haveso many wonderful spiritual
leaders and guides in my lifethat I can go to and and kind of
(51:49):
just do my verbal diarrhea andget what I need to help me
process all of those things.
So, whatever it takes forsomeone to do that, whether it's
a counselor, whether it's acoach, whether it's a spiritual
teacher, whether it's a book youknow, or a podcast, or you know
a video, whatever it may be Ireally strongly urge those of
(52:13):
you who are grappling andstruggling and being challenged
with the weight of whatever youfeel has happened to you or what
actually has happened to younot feel what has happened to
you to take the time to givethis gift to yourself.
Speaker 2 (52:31):
Yes, and also to do the work.
One thing I want to say iseveryone's time for processing
and to process is different.
What took you several years,based on what took place with
you, for me took three monthswith that particular situation.
(52:53):
Of course, it was years laterand so, in my own way, I was
processing through it, justdidn't know it.
But even the length of timethat we process through things
is up to us, because it'simportant we do our share of the
(53:16):
work.
For example, you know if you'regoing to work out with a
fitness trainer once a week.
You're not going to only workout once a week and think you
know you'll have progress, butit's going to take you a lot
longer.
But you're the one that has toeither get up in the morning or
in the evening, or whenever youdesignated the time.
(53:38):
You know, either pick up thoseweights, do those exercises and
keep the momentum going.
Speaker 1 (53:45):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (53:46):
And that's how you actually get through it.
So I agree with you, nina,being able to a life coach, a
counselor, as you say, watchinga podcast, listening to podcasts
(54:07):
or music there are so manydifferent ways and there are
plethora of healing modalities,which is what we at Miracles
Resources are working to bringto the table.
So, even if you haven't heardof something, you're not
familiar with it, it mayresonate with you, someone may
(54:27):
resonate with you.
There's something you can gainfrom it and learn that you can
practice, even you know, on yourown, so that you can work
through these things much morequickly and hopefully, although
it feels very painful, it canstill be a little bit easier.
(54:49):
And yes, we do have soulcontracts, as, as you were
saying, when we all you know,certain spiritual beings come in
together, it's no differentthan the director and producer
of any movie or any play thatyou watch.
(55:11):
They create the cast that workwith each other, each playing
certain roles in order to createa dynamic story.
And even in watching film andtheater, you're going to learn
something, you're going to growfrom it.
It's a mirror of life as weexperience it, with all the
(55:37):
different characters andpersonalities and everything
else.
Well, that's also what happenswhen we come in, as you say you
know, with a group of souls thatwe will connect with.
And I wanted to say this finalthing when you move into
complete forgiveness, you knowhow you're.
There is when you're no longerexperiencing it in your body,
(56:00):
you're not obsessed with it inyour mind, it's not hurting your
heart and you can say whew,thank you, thank you for showing
up in my life.
The way that you did that wasphenomenal.
When you can genuinely say thatand experience it, you know you
(56:22):
have moved into completeforgiveness.
And even if you've not goneinto forgiveness yet, if you can
do what the other story of thiswoman I was sharing with you
can do, I am grateful thatso-and-so is in my life.
I am so happy I had thatexperience.
(56:44):
I am in appreciation of the partthat this person played or this
experience has had in my life,experiences had in my life.
I'm grateful for it.
You may not feel it at first,you may not believe it, you may
feel like you're beingdisingenuous, but you know what,
it doesn't matter.
You say it anyway, you think itanyway, you allow yourself to
(57:09):
feel it anyway.
And, as Nina was sharing inreference to her job, as I was
sharing in reference to thatstory.
Doing it that way, you'll moveinto a place where you will one
day say, oh, this is true, Ididn't think it was before, but
(57:32):
no, it is.
And I'm thankful, I'm reallythankful, you know that you've
moved into forgiveness, oh yeah.
Speaker 1 (57:40):
And you get that joy, like I mean, you do get to a
place where you're actuallyjoyful because now you don't
have all of that angst and angerand you're like, oh, thank
goodness, because I didn't likethat, I didn't like how that
felt and you know.
As a final, final thought,first of all, thank you.
Thank you for bringing up thisconversation.
(58:01):
So, just so that you know, lynnand I never know what we're
going to talk about.
We kind of start to now I'vestarted to press record, we kind
of ramble it out and figure itout and then we just go into a
conversation.
So thank you so much becausethis topic means the world to me
.
I mean, I have another podcastthat's kind of a little bit been
(58:21):
on hiatus.
It's called from victim tovictory.
It's all about stories offorgiveness and because I know
it is so powerful.
So, for those of you again whohave your own story to share, we
would love to have yourcomments, share your stories.
(58:41):
If you're looking for support,come to the site.
It is a miracles uwresourcescom.
Click on our directory.
You will find healers there tosupport you.
If you're not sure what to do,send us a message.
We are on all kinds of socialmedia.
(59:03):
We're on LinkedIn, we are onTikTok, we're on Instagram,
we're on Facebook.
So we're everywhere.
So reach out to us, look for us, put in the comments if you
need something.
We're here to help you.
Thank you so much for takingyour valuable time to listen
into our conversation.
We hope that it's made adifference.
(59:25):
Thank you for joining us todayon Healers Talk Healing.
We hope you've been inspiredand empowered on your holistic
healing journey.
If you've enjoyed today'sepisode and want to continue
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Your feedback and support meanthe world to us.
(59:45):
Remember, healing is a lifelongjourney and you have the power
to transform your life inprofound ways.
Stay curious, keep exploringand never stop believing in your
own capacity for healing.
Welcome to Healers Talk Healing, the podcast where
we gather to explore the art andscience of holistic healing,
uncovering the secrets to ahappier, healthier you.
I'm your host, nina Ganguly,and together we will delve into
the intriguing world of holistichealing, delving into the
mind-body connection, ancientwisdom and natural remedies to
(00:27):
the mind-body connection,ancient wisdom and natural
remedies.
Get ready for enlighteningstories, thought-provoking
expert interviews and practicaltips that will empower you to
unlock your true potential andembrace a vibrant, balanced life
.
Whether you're an experiencedwellness enthusiast or simply
curious about the power ofhealing, join us on this
exhilarating journey as we sharethe wisdom and insights that
(00:47):
can truly transform your life.
It's time to embark on a voyagetowards a happier, healthier
you.
So, without further ado, let'sdive into the captivating world
of Healers Talk Healing.
Welcome to this episode ofHealers Talk Healing.
Join Lynn Harrod-Divergis and I, nina Ganguly, in a deep,
(01:10):
transformative conversationabout healing, growth and the
power of forgiveness.
In today's episode, we explorehow forgiveness is not just
about letting go, but it's aboutreclaiming our power, shifting
our consciousness and embracingpersonal growth.
Through personal stories,reflections and insights, we
(01:30):
uncover how radical acceptanceand forgiveness can free us from
past pain and open the door toa more peaceful, empowered life.
Whether you're on a healingjourney or just beginning to
explore the power ofself-awareness, this episode
would leave you with profoundinsights and practical wisdom.
Speaker 2 (01:49):
So take a deep breath , settle in and let's dive into
this powerful conversation onhealing, transformation and the
miracles that come withforgiveness full of miracles are
10 stories, as I said, that areexcerpts of different
(02:10):
experiences in my life, andthere's one that's called
(02:30):
Forgive, and I think Forgive isa very poignant aspect of what
we need to do in order to grow,Because without forgiveness
there is no growth, withoutforgiveness there is no learning
or becoming woke.
That's still a decent word or apopular word, but to forgive is
(02:52):
to shift consciousness from outthere to in here.
That's what forgiveness reallyis, and I believe that so many
people, because we have beentaught and because we are beings
(03:14):
who sometimes have a challengetaking responsibility for things
, looking at our own stuff andall of that and so what we do is
we want to put it on someoneelse, something else or what
(03:35):
have you.
Yes, there are circumstances inlife that do come up and happen
, but the reality is no one doesanything to us, nothing happens
to us, nothing happens to us inspecifically.
Yes, there are circumstances welive through, but, as human
(03:57):
beings who are here in thetimeframe that we are, our sole
focus purpose, whether we'reaware of it or not, is growth.
It's what we do automatically.
Speaker 1 (04:15):
I agree 100%.
And hey, welcome into ourconversation today on Healers
Talk Healing with the incredibleLynn Herod-Divergis and myself,
nina Ganguly, and it looks liketoday we're going to be talking
about forgiveness, which is oneof my favorite topics.
Actually, I have read a bookcalled Radical Forgiveness.
(04:38):
It's actually on my deskbecause I just my friend of mine
was asking well, book, shouldmy um book club read there into
growth and spiritual growth?
There she's a with a yoga group.
Let me think, let me think andI'm like radical forgiveness, I
think it's a, it's, it's reallyall about what you were saying.
(05:04):
It's kind of stepping back andlooking at okay.
So if I want a certain thing inlife, which is most people are
looking for happiness, joy,peace, however they come to it
at the end, you know, not at theend of the day, but throughout
their journey, however they theycome to that happiness or peace
(05:26):
, joy it.
I I do believe it starts withthat looking at your life and
looking where you can makechoices and have, have that um,
that saying okay, to me,forgiveness.
So I'm going all over the roadbecause there's so much in here
(05:47):
that wants to come out, but tome, literally, forgiveness is,
is aligned with radicalacceptance.
Okay, none of us can change thecircumstances that have passed
and yet we sit and ruminateabout.
Well, I had said this, I wishthis has happened.
(06:07):
I wish I had never met thisperson, had this conversation,
taken this job, bought this car,whatever it may be.
Speaker 2 (06:14):
That is sort of in in the way that you're ruminating
about, and I know I'm aruminator for sure well, I I
think everyone is, you know indifferent ways and to different
extents, but what's interestingabout what you're saying is that
, without all of those thingsthat you, that one wishes they
(06:38):
hadn't done or had donedifferently, or oh man, you know
, if only I had a and all ofthat, those are the things that
brought you to where you aretoday, and wouldn't you say that
today you are at your best self, more so than yesterday?
Speaker 1 (07:00):
Yes, and you know, just to get a little more into
that conversation, I had to do alot of accepting and forgiving
in order to see the lesson.
If I hadn't done the acceptingand the forgiving, I wouldn't
have been able to now look backand say, oh okay, oh okay, and
(07:26):
it's an individual thing.
Some people may look at it andsay there's no lesson there, and
some people will say, okay,there was a lesson.
But I'm looking at my you knowmy history and saying, okay, now
I understand why this happenedor why this, you know, fell into
place.
And yeah, it was not fun, itwas, it was actually horrible
and but I can take what it'smeant to teach me.
I can grow from there, I can do.
(07:47):
I am who I am because of all ofthe things that have happened
and what happened in my life,all of those dreams and wishes
you wanted to be fulfilled anddidn't get fulfilled.
We always talk about the thingsthat have happened, but there's
also a lot of things that wewanted that didn't happen, that
ended up being for our greatergood, and also forgiving those
(08:13):
things that didn't work outSorry, not that didn't work out,
but like didn't happen.
That you wanted to happen, yes,I so badly wanted to become a
project manager, so badly.
I took the lessons, you know.
I went to school, I did someextra courses and I applied many
times to be a project managerand it never happened.
Speaker 2 (08:38):
Which clearly was not meant to happen.
And yet I use those skills allthe time, of course.
And yet I use those skills allthe time Of course.
(08:59):
And I was just going to say yetyou're still a project manager
in what you do, whether it bethe feelings we have around it,
and ask ourselves is that reallythe essence of the way we want
(09:25):
to move forward?
Or should we just take theessence of what we've gained
from that situation to forgive?
Forgive ourselves, it's all.
Typically, it's always aboutforgiving yourself because, we
spoke before about what everyonethat you see interact with have
(09:45):
a relationship with experienceis you, so how can it be
something outside of you whenyou're the person that's always
in the story?
Speaker 1 (10:04):
So in our experience, in the story, this is true,
right?
So in our experience of life,we tend to forget that it's our
experience of life and it is.
It's like that's my movie.
I'm the director, I'm the, theactor, I'm the story writer, I'm
(10:27):
the I'm all of it, the producer, and so it is always an inside
job always, always, constantly.
Speaker 2 (10:39):
So I wrote this little book oh my gosh, what
year are we in?
So this must have been 27 yearsago and it's called Pocketful
of Miracles and it's 10 truestories of what I considered
(11:01):
miracles, but a lesson with eachmiracle.
And before our coming togetherthis morning, I was reading one
of the stories and I'm like oh,wow, and it was a story of
forgiveness.
And I was like, hmm, okay, sothat was the beginning.
(11:22):
That experience as parts of itwere wonderful and parts of it
didn't feel as wonderfulactually, on a whole was one of
the best experiences I couldhave had, because it was a
(11:42):
precursor that led me to where Iam today.
Without that experience, notonly would I not have really
delved deeper sooner aroundforgiveness, but I also would
have just continued to movealong in the same consciousness,
(12:07):
and I guarantee you I wouldprobably be an executive VP, you
know, at some bank, somewhere,or an attorney, instead of doing
what I'm doing now, which isthis is what I love.
This is my passion is to now,which is this is what I love
(12:27):
this is my passion is to assistpeople in their own journey and
their growth and personalprocess.
So that's, you know it, justspeaks to it.
It's a short story and I'vebeen debating whether I should
read it or not, now that I'veadmitted that it's.
Speaker 1 (12:47):
I think you need to read it now.
I think the listeners are goingto be like wait a minute, you
can't leave us hanging.
You've got to share that, thatmain story, the impetus to who
you are today all right, I'llread.
Speaker 2 (12:59):
I will read it.
Um, each chapter, each storystarts actually with a quote
from A Course in Miracles.
I know some of the listenersout there may not be familiar
with A Course in Miracles, butit's a powerfully written book
that you cannot just read withyour intellect, you have to read
(13:20):
it with your spirit, really,truly, and there are many people
around the globe who helpinterpret it.
But anyway, it starts with thisthis is the Course in Miracles.
Can you imagine how beautifulthose you forgive will look to
you?
Nothing that you remember, thatmade your heart sing with joy,
(13:43):
has ever brought you even alittle part of the happiness
this sight will bring you, foryou will see the Son of God.
I think it's just a beautifulquote, and that's how I feel,
also about forgiveness, becausewhen you see the Son of God,
you're seeing yourself again,reflected back, right, okay, so
(14:07):
here's the story.
I've changed the names toprotect the guilty.
Speaker 1 (14:15):
Love that.
Speaker 2 (14:17):
All right.
So Barbara, young and naive,was talked into a blind date by
her friend Shirley.
The arrangement was thatBarbara would be at Shirley's
house for a visit around thetime Henry was expected.
He was Shirley's tenant.
Shirley had really talked himup, describing Henry as a man
with a good sense of humor wholiked to have fun.
(14:40):
He was a fantastic musician and, of course, incredibly handsome
.
When Barbara arrived for hermeeting, shirley took it upon
herself to show Barbara some ofHenry's photo albums so she
could get a look at how gorgeousHenry was.
For Barbara, those photo albumsrevealed a lot more than just
(15:02):
Henry's looks.
He had pictures of girls fromall over the world with
descriptive captions of what heliked, detailing what he
remembered most about each one.
This was his collection ofwomen stretching from port to
port.
Barbara decided right then andthere she would only meet this
(15:26):
man, but nothing else.
She was curious to see whattype of character he was, to
have collected women the waychildren do toys.
When Henry walked into the house, barbara was engaged in
conversation with a few of hisfriends who had come by just
prior to his arriving.
She acted as if she did not seehim yet out of the corner of
(15:49):
her eyes she caught a glimpse ofhim.
She noticed how he was intentlywatching her.
Finally, they were officiallyintroduced.
When Barbara looked up to greethim, she tried not to show how
taken she was with his handsomeappearance, which was
overshadowed only by hischarming demeanor, and that's
(16:12):
all it took.
Barbara knew if she asked.
Barbara knew if he asked herout, she would not be strong.
She would not be strong enoughto resist.
So much for firm thoughtfulness.
Two nights later, henry andBarbara went out on their first
date.
They fell in love and quicklymoved in together.
(16:35):
Their relationship sizzled withall of the passion young love
brings.
For the first six months it wasthe most perfect relationship
Barbara had ever experienced.
In fact it was almost tooperfect.
It wasn't long, though, beforeBarbara found out Henry was
seeing another woman being inthe Navy.
(16:55):
Henry traveled frequently.
The woman he was seeing livedin another city several hundred
miles away.
This was the nightmare Barbaraknew she might face, but hoped
she would never have to.
How foolish she was to believeshe could change him.
Sound familiar ladies, thatliving with her would be enough
(17:17):
for him.
Once she found out about theother woman, she began to
realize that the other woman wasreally one out of several other
women.
Henry was a woman magnet.
He had offers from women, theway many celebrities do.
Yet Henry never left Barbara.
(17:38):
He continuously told her howmuch he loved her.
He promised he would change,straightening up his act as long
as she didn't leave him.
For periods of time he didappear to be more attentive,
more sincere and more loving,but it only lasted until the
next woman came along.
Barbara continued to stay withHenry for three long years, with
(18:01):
many disappointments, nights oftears, fits of anguish.
The final straw came, however,when Henry took Barbara's sports
car, telling her he was goingto the store and would be back
shortly.
Henry was gone for three days.
Barbara knew, had no idea wherehe was.
(18:23):
Henry was gone.
Oh I'm sorry.
Henry was gone for three days.
Barbara knew not where.
When he called to say the shipwas leaving that day for a month
and she could pick up her carat the pier, barbara was furious
I will use the word enraged.
She screamed enough is enough.
(18:46):
When Henry returned, all of histhings were packed, waiting
outside the house for him.
He left eagerly to live withthe woman whose house he had
visited for those three dayspreviously.
But it wasn't long, though,before she told him to leave her
house too.
Having nowhere to go, he toldBarbara he missed her, asking
(19:11):
her, even begging her to takehim back.
He seemed sincere.
Barbara said uh-uh, nope, noway.
No way can I take you back.
But if you need a place to stay, I will help you for two weeks
only, so you can find anotherhome.
During the time Henry lived atthe other woman's house, barbara
(19:32):
focused on moving on with herlife.
She was angry, bitter,resentful, hating Henry and
everything he represented.
But it was an intense processfor Barbara, as she acknowledged
the anger, first at him andthen, surprisingly, at herself.
After all, she knew what typeof man he was, and she let her
(19:56):
emotions steer her into ignoringthe evidence.
Her own arrogance and thinkingshe could change him prevailed,
but in the end, all she was leftwith was the truth that, indeed
, he never did it to her.
She did it to herself.
It was a hard lesson, butBarbara woke up to the
(20:18):
realization that her arroganceand pride created an illusion,
showing her what she wanted tobelieve about herself and the
situation, instead of facingreality.
The reality was that Henry, too, had a problem, a problem with
ego.
He clung to the belief that hewas powerful because women found
(20:41):
him attractive and wanted to bewith him.
This was a false sense of power, but he was the only one who
could change himself.
Barbara found it in her heart toforgive him.
She let go of the bitterness,the anger, the resentment, the
hatred she felt for him, only todiscover she remembered the
(21:01):
good times, the happy times.
She knew she would never wantto be together with him again.
Yet she knew that in forgivingHenry she had grown far beyond
this consciousness existence.
She knew she loved him, but nolonger from an obsessive,
self-destructive place.
(21:22):
Now she came from a place ofcompassion and wishing him well
on his life's journey.
Barbara knew in her forgivenessshe had given him a greater
love.
So I ended it with to forgive isfor giving love.
It's to give love to anotherperson.
(21:42):
You may not want to see or bearound that person again, but in
your heart you want that personto thrive and do well, and
that's really part of the key toforgiveness.
It's not forgetting whathappened, but it's acknowledging
and taking responsibility rightfor yourself and your
participation in whatever it is,and therefore it's being able
(22:08):
to love the other personunconditionally and want the
best for them too.
And so the miracle is, when youforgive another, you are
divinely loving yourself as well, divinely loving yourself as
(22:29):
well.
So that's that is.
That was a very poignant periodof my life, because it was.
It was a very deep love that Iexperienced at the time and,
yeah, it really it helped turnsome things around.
Sometimes, out of great paincomes the as we begin to heal.
(22:53):
Out of great pain comes the ahamoments, the realizations, the
desire so deeply to move throughthat pain, and so it's the pain
that helps us move and takesteps toward where we need to go
(23:15):
, that then we find ourselvesnot on this path that we had
been on, which may have beenself-destructive which was, in
my case, self-destructive butyou move on another path that
really opens your life in awhole different way.
So forgiveness is a powerful,powerful thing, and it's okay to
(23:39):
be angry and upset and shoutand scream and, in your mind,
blame and all of those things,but at some point, if you really
want to live the kind of lifeand experience the things that
you choose to experience, youcannot hold on to that energy.
You have to be able to forgiveand then you can really move on.
Speaker 1 (24:04):
Yeah, I think, inside of your story and inside of
other stories that I've heardabout forgiveness, or talking to
people who are not in thatspace, have not gotten there.
It's the word itself.
It's like for me that I havethis word, this feeling around
(24:25):
the word submission, even thoughit's a very powerful word and
it's, you know, it depends onwhat you're submitting to and
the context in which you see theword.
So you know, there are thosewho think forgiveness is like a
giving up or a giving in orletting you off the hook sort of
(24:48):
conversation in their mind.
And it's not.
No, it's not, but it's.
It's what you said about theprocess.
It's about saying, okay, thishurt me, it made me angry, and
I'm going to process thosefeelings and I think that's
really important to inside ofthe world of forgiveness.
No one is asking anyone to be amartyr here and be like, yeah,
(25:11):
no, it's, it's, it's okay, youdid me wrong, I'm all right.
No, no, no, no.
There is the screaming, theswearing, the, the down and ugly
and deep crying and not feelingvery forgiving as you're
processing.
But I will say, based on my ownexperience, that forgiveness is
(25:38):
like a gift you give yourself.
Yes, it is a gift you giveyourself.
It is, you know, coming from,and I don't think everyone I
have not really shared on inthis podcast that you know, I
grew, I experienced abuse formany years in my life and I have
really fully forgiven my abuser.
(25:59):
Now I will put throw in acaveat that happened after their
passing.
So I just I want to be real andauthentic that I'm not sure if
what that journey would havebeen like if that person was
still in my life or still alive,but what I did learn is through
forgiveness because it did takeme a long time was that it
(26:23):
didn't take up space anymore.
Yes, it's true, it didn't takeup space in my body.
It didn't take up space in mymind.
I didn't walk around, uh,feeling anymore that I was owed
something because I sure didwalk around like, hey, I went
through this, I am owedhappiness, I am owed a reprieve,
(26:44):
and life doesn't show up thatway just by the way.
You know what I mean and in myexperience, the letting go of
how it should have been, what itshould have been, how they
should have been and theyweren't, um, has been the most,
(27:04):
the deepest gift that I havegiven myself, and it still
doesn't always come easy.
You know, you practice.
It's like a muscle like thinkabout this, we want to avoid
pain.
That's the way we were.
We kind of were throughevolution right, that's about
survival through evolution.
(27:26):
Right, that's about survival.
Avoid pain, do what you need tosurvive, to get through things,
and the pain is there to helpyou grow.
It's like when you were talking, I was thinking about muscle
mass, like when you're workingout, when you go and do a
workout, in order for yourmuscles to get stronger, to do
what they can um, to opt, towork optimally, have to tear the
(27:46):
muscle tissue, do that and then, as it repairs, it doesn't feel
very nice you know, go to thegym and when it repairs it
creates a little scar tissue andso forth.
But that's also what bulks youup or, you know, makes it, makes
you look it gives the resultsthat you're looking for, for
(28:07):
strength I'm going to talk aboutand looks and whatever it is
you want, but for those of youwho are listening and and are
not maybe sitting in that placeof hurt, sitting in that place
of pain and thinking to yourselfwhy me?
You know we all have thosethoughts.
You know they fleet through.
One of the things that helpedme was why not me?
(28:30):
I'm not any more special thananybody else, and using that
analogy of oh oh, so this islike a workout I am going
through.
I'm just going to say this ismy forgiveness workout.
I'm going to practice thisthing.
I'm going to go through thisthing.
Yeah, it's easy to talk aboutonce you've been through it and
(28:50):
you're on the other end.
However, it is truly powerfuland I love what you said about
it being divine and allowingthat divinity inside of you to
come through.
Speaker 2 (29:08):
To come through right exactly, and to see the divine
in everything else.
Know that it's also always areflection.
Here's something else, too,because we all come here for
purposes of growth and learning.
Before we enter this world asspiritual beings, even without
(29:31):
physical bodies, there arevarious things we want to learn,
and we all, whether weacknowledge it or not, which is
why I say this is an inside jobmake choices along the way how
we're going to learn thosethings.
(29:52):
I chose the relationship withhim, not consciously Well, yes,
consciously in that moment Ichose relationship with him, but
really, the bigger picture is,I chose the relationship so that
I could step into where Ineeded to be and a promise that
(30:14):
was made when I was 14 that Iwould do this work but was
trying to escape, and so, as aresult, I found my way
unconsciously to that point intime.
So, when you even look at itfrom a broader perspective, was
(30:37):
he to blame?
No, I made the choice to learnin a way that had to be so
viscerally, emotionally,mentally and even spiritually
painful that it was a okay, notdoing that again, not like that,
(30:59):
and I never have Nope, andsometimes that's what we choose,
but we have to takeresponsibility for the fact that
that's what we choose and sowhen we begin to understand
those just kind of fundamentalthings and practice so we can
(31:22):
intellectually understand it,but it may not be what I call
enriched in the, the, the soul,the spiritness of it.
Okay, cause there are a lot ofconcepts, a lot of things that
we say and other people speakabout, and all kinds of books
are written about and on and onand on.
Much of it is intellectual arewritten about and on and on and
(31:48):
on.
Much of it is intellectual.
But when you remove theintellect and you continue to
practice, you start off with the.
I have to share this realquickly.
There's a woman, well, there wasa couple who was married and
during their marriage I wish Icould remember their name you
all have to forgive me, I'm notso good at names and this has
(32:10):
been almost 40 years ago that Imet them and heard this story,
but anyway they married.
He had a teaching position in Ibelieve it was Japan or you
know one of the countriesoverseas, and she became
(32:31):
pregnant there and she was, youknow, doing whatever she did at
home.
She wasn't working, but heworked and he said you know what
, let's go to dinner latertonight.
And she said okay, and he saidso I'll be back home such and
such a time, be ready.
Well, she was ready and hedidn't come.
(32:54):
And no, I know what it was.
She went out, that's what.
She went out to the market andcame back.
And when she came back, she gotready.
He didn't come and he didn'tcome.
And then she realized shestarted checking around the
house.
He had been home while she wasgone, taking all his clothes and
(33:14):
left, left her in a foreigncountry with not knowing how to
really speak the language.
Well, uh, not having a job, hetook all the money out of the
bank account, so on and so forth.
Okay, nonetheless, she did findher way back to the States, and
(33:39):
of course she's pregnant.
So she's like, how am I goingto have this baby here?
And of course she's pregnant.
So she's like, how am I goingto have this baby here?
She was able to get back to theStates with the help of family
and friends and all she could dois think to herself I hate that
son of a so-and-so, that bleep,bleep to bleep, blam is just
(33:59):
I'm going to kick his blah, blah, blah.
But you know, on and on right.
That's all she could think.
But she out of that really verypainful experience.
(34:22):
What she recognized was okay,well, you know, I have this
beautiful child.
And so she was, as she wasthinking and seeing her child
and mothering her child, shewould think, well, at least he
left me with something decent.
But that son of a duck.
And anyway, long story short,she actually moved into the
ministry.
She actually moved into theministry and one of the things
(34:49):
that she knew she had to do wasforgive him, because that anger,
that bitterness, was alsoattracting experiences to her
that she didn't want.
You know how so many people sayI'm a good person.
Why did this happen to me?
Well, maybe you're holding onto something internally that is
so deep and still, when youthink about it or speak about it
has such a visceral reactionthat could be an energy that's
(35:12):
attracting some experiences youmay not want to have.
Just saying Possible.
And so, anyway, she changedno-transcript.
Intellectually, she knew she hadto forgive him, she knew that
(35:34):
she needed to move along adifferent road, but it was the
process that helped her moveinto forgiveness on a very
authentic level, because shestarted off with I forgive you,
you such and such and so.
And so I forgive you, you, yousuch and such and so, and so I
(35:57):
forgive you.
I'm not feeling it yet, but you, I forgive you.
And she did that consistentlyfor several times a day for
months until a point came whereshe went I forgive you.
(36:20):
So you know, whatever his namewas, I forgive you.
And then she's like okay, Iwasn't, I wasn't calling him the
MF word or the that, and thatthat's a little different.
And then so she continued, andthen she you know, she's kind of
checking in with herself, rightand then she said, oh, I truly
(36:43):
forgive you, oh, I forgive you.
And so she continued to theplace where she honestly and
earnestly forgave him andforgave him so much so.
And when that lifted and shewent into forgiveness, she
literally met her soulmate.
He met his soulmate.
(37:05):
What she came to understand isthat, because of how she was, he
could no longer stay with herfor his own survival, if you
will.
Although he never expressed it,she realized that she could not
have stayed with him, andprobably wouldn't have, if they
had moved back to the Statestogether and moved forward.
(37:27):
But at the place where it wasleft in the story, they both
married other people, they bothbecame great friends, and even
when he was having somechallenges with his current wife
at that time as a minister.
Now she was doing marriagecounseling with them, wow.
(37:49):
So it's a great story, but it'sa true story about forgiveness.
She was honest about it.
She didn't just go okay, I needto forgive, so I forgive you.
No, she was like I'm just, I'mgonna, I'm saying this out loud,
(38:10):
I'm writing it out, I'mexpressing it, but I don't.
I, my heart's not feelingforgiveness, but my mouth will
say it anyway.
And that was the process untilher, her words which they which,
(38:30):
by the way, sound reverberatesgoes out into the universe and
comes back to you because itrecognizes your voice within
seven seconds, which is why whatyou say and the words you use
are very powerful.
That's just a little side note.
We can talk about that anothertime.
Oh yeah, so as she can continueto say the words, it's coming
(38:56):
back to her and it's resonating,and so it just continues to
resonate and the vibration evenof the words I forgive you, it
has a higher resonance.
And so, as you continue to dothat, as she continued to do
that, she moved into actualforgiveness.
And up until that time, shewent to school to be a minister.
(39:21):
She was raising this child onher own.
It was a struggle.
She went through a lot ofchallenges and had no money, had
not a lot of anything, and shewas still going through her
process.
Not a lot of anything and shewas still going through her
process.
But once she really let it go,she met her soulmate.
Speaker 1 (39:41):
Once I was able to forgive and continue along my
journey, I connected with, sawme it's, it's very, very
powerful and you know it, I'm,I'm, I'm sometimes I'm at a loss
(40:04):
at words of how powerful thattool has been.
And you're so right when you'retaught.
When you were sharing the storyof the couple I was just
thinking about, I remember onetime being in a it's really
weird I was in a corporatetraining and that's when I
learned fake it till you, makeit.
And and what was interestingwas this it's not a story about
(40:27):
forgiveness, but I'm actually Ijust want to dive deep into that
quick like this practice, thispractice of like, okay, I'm
going to show up and and I'mgoing to try to be forgiving,
I'm going to take on what theI'm going to put that coat on.
So one of the things I rememberwas I was having a hard time
was after my father had passedaway.
I was having a hard time atwork and we had done this
(40:49):
training and one of the thingsshe said was you know, sometimes
in the corporate environmentyou may not feel like being in
there, but when you're in aleadership position, you have to
show up as a leader.
And there are days when youdon't want to or you literally
cannot, and you have to, likefake it till you make it.
And so I was.
You know, I was struggling atwork and therefore my
(41:10):
performance was struggling and Ilead a team, so their
performance was struggling.
And I remember hearing fake ittill you make it.
Like, okay, I'm going to fakeit, I'm going to walk in and I'm
going to be the top performingsupervisor, like that, I'm,
that's who I'm going to walk inas, even if I don't feel like it
.
So I'd walk in every day.
I had the top performing team.
(41:31):
Or we were at the bottom of thebucket.
I have the top performing team.
Oh, we were at the bottom ofthe bucket.
I have the top performing team.
I am the top performer.
I am going to inspire my teamevery day.
So I'd walk around and say helloto each one of them, even
though I was like, don't feellike saying hello to you.
You know, I had all the thingsgoing on your performances, like
you know.
I just wanted to blame them.
I wanted to blame my boss, Iwanted to blame everybody else
(41:52):
yes, my dad for dying.
You know, like everything, Ijust wanted to do the blame game
.
But every day I walked down theaisles, I said hello to my team
.
I said hello to my colleagues,I sat at my desk and I probably
work like this.
However, I put on the face andover time, you're, it just
(42:14):
magically happened.
I was not faking it anymore, Iwas walking in and so glad to be
there and saying hi to my teamand connecting with them.
Cause what that did?
It allowed me now to connectwith them in a way that I
probably wouldn't have connected.
So all of those circumstancesnot come to play had I not done
the practice of stepping intothat piece and when I'm talking
(42:38):
and we bring it back toforgiveness, even, you know,
trying to forgive my abuser.
It was a every day.
Okay, the memory comes up,process the memory, let go of
the memory.
For me, I had to be like, okay,I wouldn't be here this way and
the way that I am if all ofthose things hadn't led me to
(43:00):
this point.
And really, what I got out ofthe whole lesson, believe it or
not, was forgiveness Like atsuch a level that there are
people who are like I can'tbelieve that you were able to
forgive that person.
And I said it wasn't about theperson, I had to.
I had to let go of trying toforgive, even if the person was
(43:22):
still alive.
To forgive them alive or deadis irrelevant.
Right.
Speaker 2 (43:29):
It really was.
Speaker 1 (43:30):
I was so angry, like angry, and I got to the point
where I was.
I was like I was.
I couldn't even be with my ownself anymore.
Speaker 2 (43:42):
Like, okay, that's kind of tough when you can't be
with yourself.
Speaker 1 (43:46):
And so it's like, okay, well, we need to process
this and I need to forgive andit was a practice.
It actually took me years, itwasn't.
It took me years to forgive, atthe level that, if I heard a
name, had a memory, somethinghappened.
I didn't have a visceralreaction to it.
Speaker 2 (44:06):
No, it absolutely makes sense.
And I had a situation where Iwas raped when I was very young.
I was only five and Icompletely forgot about it.
But going through my process,it wasn't until I was 33 that
(44:29):
the memory of it came up.
But it wasn't just the memory,it was, as you said, the visual.
I could smell his breath, Icould feel him on me, I could
feel him in me, I could see Iwas in the room again.
All of that and I process.
I process through it at thattime, through meditation.
(44:51):
This is why I also know I hadbeen meditating already for
about four years, but it broughtme to the point where I had to
call that up from deep within,even though I forgot about it.
I had to really call it up tolet go of it.
That was the reason for it,because I'm like, I'm a good
(45:14):
meditator.
Why is this coming up?
Why does it?
Why I'm like, oh my God, itwasn't, it was not just the
thought of it, I actuallyrelived it as if I was in the
moment.
That's how deep it was.
And when it started coming out,it took me three months, Like
(45:35):
well, I had always met.
I always meditate twice a day,but even meditating, like in
between, that to like I got toclear this stuff out, you know,
to fully release it.
But when I did, when I did andof course this person had long
since passed away because he waslike a great grand uncle and so
(45:58):
what I came to realize as I'mmeditating and so I clear it out
, I'm like, oh, my God, Thankyou so much for that experience.
I mean, I wasn't even thinkingit, it's what was inside of me,
(46:18):
it was the thank you, Thank youfor that experience.
Wait, what If that act at theage of five had not happened in
the way that it did, of five hadnot happened in the way that it
did, I truly would not be whereI am now.
(46:46):
And part of my journey, even inreference to men, was always
connected back to that situationthat I had no awareness of,
right, Right.
So when I read the story aboutmy, you know, wonderful beloved
teacher that's what I call himnow, my beloved teacher that was
kind of like the.
(47:06):
It's like the scab that's on awound, but the reality is the
wound never healed, because thatwound is so deep and so far
back that it looked like it hadhealed.
Because you know, here's thescab.
Yeah, but with the experience Iread earlier and you ripped
that scab off and I did go intoforgiveness and all of that
(47:31):
which was beautiful and all ofthat which was beautiful.
But it also let me know that youknow, because of the pain
there's some more things Ineeded to do which is how I got
started, and then it became timeto now, after you know, having
become ordained, after startingthis work for about four years
(47:54):
later, that's when I realized,oh, my consciousness is able to
remember and the wound to thecore so that it can be released
(48:14):
and, you know, so forth.
So even when I think of himtoday and I talk about him, I
have no more visceral reactionof anything on any level, and
the only thing I feel for myabuser is true divine love.
That's all I experience.
And the same thing with mybeloved teacher in the story.
(48:35):
When I think of him, all I feelis just, you know, a wonderful
kind of divine love, but there'sno more of that longing and
that heart and stuff and all ofthat's gone yeah, and and you
know time is is, take advantageof it when you, when you have
(48:57):
the time to, to, to do the, theprocessing, and I feel the same
way.
Speaker 1 (49:01):
I've said thank you as well, thank you for teaching
me, because there's this bookcalled Radical Forgiveness.
I think I talked about italready and I really love that
book.
But one of the things that Ireally got from reading that
particular book was about whatyou said.
When we come and we come tolearn lessons and he talks about
(49:26):
it's Colin tipping who wrotethe book.
He talks about the soulcontracts that we make, like we
literally have a tribe of peoplewe travel through with and this
might be a little hard for somepeople to understand, but it's
a belief that I have that youknow, if we are souls and we've
come here to learn some lessons,we actually and we forget what
those are, because otherwisethen you wouldn't learn lesson.
(49:46):
You have this conversation witha group of other souls and you
say, hey, here we are at a table, these are the lessons I want
to learn.
What are the lessons you wantto learn?
What do you want to learn?
What do you want to learn?
Speaker 2 (49:58):
And how are we going to serve each other?
Speaker 1 (50:00):
Yeah, how are we going to serve each other?
How is this all going to playout?
And then, and then you go andhave the play, you, you go play
a game and the game is somethingyou requested, you initiated,
initiated, and all the playersare doing exactly what you had
asked them to do.
When I got that for myself, oror that worked for me, it may
(50:20):
not work for everybody else, buthaving a lot of thoughts saying
, wait a minute, I asked forthis, like from the perspective
of I wanted to learn this lessonand this is the way it had to
play out for me to learn thelesson.
Oh well, thank you, you didyour job and you did it really
well.
That is where I was able tofinally like, like I told you,
it took years, it was bits andpieces of chipping away at, you
(50:44):
know, over, over, like 20 yearsof abuse.
It does like that forgivenessdidn't happen to happen for me
right away, but when Iunderstood that and I was able
to to see that, it was like, oh,okay, well, gosh, thank you.
And then, every time after that, I thought about you know, you
(51:04):
don't remember every singlething.
Every time you have a pain orsomething like that.
Right, so you're, I thought tomyself.
Every time it comes up, I'm like, oh well, this me resilient,
thank you, this true.
Well, this made me resilient.
Thank you, this taught me howto be compassionate.
Oh, thank you.
Oh, this is supposed to beteaching me about boundaries.
(51:25):
Huh, okay, thank you.
Now it doesn't happen just likethat.
It is a process, and for me,I'm a talker, so for me, I I've
just been very blessed to haveso many wonderful spiritual
leaders and guides in my lifethat I can go to and and kind of
(51:49):
just do my verbal diarrhea andget what I need to help me
process all of those things.
So, whatever it takes forsomeone to do that, whether it's
a counselor, whether it's acoach, whether it's a spiritual
teacher, whether it's a book youknow, or a podcast, or you know
a video, whatever it may be Ireally strongly urge those of
(52:13):
you who are grappling andstruggling and being challenged
with the weight of whatever youfeel has happened to you or what
actually has happened to younot feel what has happened to
you to take the time to givethis gift to yourself.
Speaker 2 (52:31):
Yes, and also to do the work.
One thing I want to say iseveryone's time for processing
and to process is different.
What took you several years,based on what took place with
you, for me took three monthswith that particular situation.
(52:53):
Of course, it was years laterand so, in my own way, I was
processing through it, justdidn't know it.
But even the length of timethat we process through things
is up to us, because it'simportant we do our share of the
(53:16):
work.
For example, you know if you'regoing to work out with a
fitness trainer once a week.
You're not going to only workout once a week and think you
know you'll have progress, butit's going to take you a lot
longer.
But you're the one that has toeither get up in the morning or
in the evening, or whenever youdesignated the time.
(53:38):
You know, either pick up thoseweights, do those exercises and
keep the momentum going.
Speaker 1 (53:45):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (53:46):
And that's how you actually get through it.
So I agree with you, nina,being able to a life coach, a
counselor, as you say, watchinga podcast, listening to podcasts
(54:07):
or music there are so manydifferent ways and there are
plethora of healing modalities,which is what we at Miracles
Resources are working to bringto the table.
So, even if you haven't heardof something, you're not
familiar with it, it mayresonate with you, someone may
(54:27):
resonate with you.
There's something you can gainfrom it and learn that you can
practice, even you know, on yourown, so that you can work
through these things much morequickly and hopefully, although
it feels very painful, it canstill be a little bit easier.
(54:49):
And yes, we do have soulcontracts, as, as you were
saying, when we all you know,certain spiritual beings come in
together, it's no differentthan the director and producer
of any movie or any play thatyou watch.
(55:11):
They create the cast that workwith each other, each playing
certain roles in order to createa dynamic story.
And even in watching film andtheater, you're going to learn
something, you're going to growfrom it.
It's a mirror of life as weexperience it, with all the
(55:37):
different characters andpersonalities and everything
else.
Well, that's also what happenswhen we come in, as you say you
know, with a group of souls thatwe will connect with.
And I wanted to say this finalthing when you move into
complete forgiveness, you knowhow you're.
There is when you're no longerexperiencing it in your body,
(56:00):
you're not obsessed with it inyour mind, it's not hurting your
heart and you can say whew,thank you, thank you for showing
up in my life.
The way that you did that wasphenomenal.
When you can genuinely say thatand experience it, you know you
(56:22):
have moved into completeforgiveness.
And even if you've not goneinto forgiveness yet, if you can
do what the other story of thiswoman I was sharing with you
can do, I am grateful thatso-and-so is in my life.
I am so happy I had thatexperience.
(56:44):
I am in appreciation of the partthat this person played or this
experience has had in my life,experiences had in my life.
I'm grateful for it.
You may not feel it at first,you may not believe it, you may
feel like you're beingdisingenuous, but you know what,
it doesn't matter.
You say it anyway, you think itanyway, you allow yourself to
(57:09):
feel it anyway.
And, as Nina was sharing inreference to her job, as I was
sharing in reference to thatstory.
Doing it that way, you'll moveinto a place where you will one
day say, oh, this is true, Ididn't think it was before, but
(57:32):
no, it is.
And I'm thankful, I'm reallythankful, you know that you've
moved into forgiveness, oh yeah.
Speaker 1 (57:40):
And you get that joy, like I mean, you do get to a
place where you're actuallyjoyful because now you don't
have all of that angst and angerand you're like, oh, thank
goodness, because I didn't likethat, I didn't like how that
felt and you know.
As a final, final thought,first of all, thank you.
Thank you for bringing up thisconversation.
(58:01):
So, just so that you know, lynnand I never know what we're
going to talk about.
We kind of start to now I'vestarted to press record, we kind
of ramble it out and figure itout and then we just go into a
conversation.
So thank you so much becausethis topic means the world to me
.
I mean, I have another podcastthat's kind of a little bit been
(58:21):
on hiatus.
It's called from victim tovictory.
It's all about stories offorgiveness and because I know
it is so powerful.
So, for those of you again whohave your own story to share, we
would love to have yourcomments, share your stories.
(58:41):
If you're looking for support,come to the site.
It is a miracles uwresourcescom.
Click on our directory.
You will find healers there tosupport you.
If you're not sure what to do,send us a message.
We are on all kinds of socialmedia.
(59:03):
We're on LinkedIn, we are onTikTok, we're on Instagram,
we're on Facebook.
So we're everywhere.
So reach out to us, look for us, put in the comments if you
need something.
We're here to help you.
Thank you so much for takingyour valuable time to listen
into our conversation.
We hope that it's made adifference.
(59:25):
Thank you for joining us todayon Healers Talk Healing.
We hope you've been inspiredand empowered on your holistic
healing journey.
If you've enjoyed today'sepisode and want to continue
learning and growing with us,don't forget to subscribe,
follow, rate and review ourpodcast.
Your feedback and support meanthe world to us.
(59:45):
Remember, healing is a lifelongjourney and you have the power
to transform your life inprofound ways.
Stay curious, keep exploringand never stop believing in your
own capacity for healing.
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