Feeling to Heal: Emotional Mastery for Leaders w/ Jamie Butemeyer

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
Hello. My name is Skippy Mesereau. Coach, former
elected official, and lifetimepublic servant. Welcome to
Healing Our Politics. The showthat shows you, the heart
centered public servant andpolitical leader, how to heal
our politics by starting withthe human in the mirror.
It is my job to sit down orstand up with the best experts

(00:32):
public service experience,providing you actionable,
practical providing youactionable, practical, tactical
tools that you can test outtoday in your life and with your
teams. I will also talk toleaders across the globe with a
self care practice, getting toknow them at at a deeply human

(00:52):
and personal level so that youcan learn from their challenges
and journey. Warning. This is apost partisan space. Yes.
I have a bias. You have a bias.We all have a bias. Everybody
gets a bias. And I will bestripping out all of the
unconscious cues of bias fromthis space.
No politics, partisanship, orpolicy here because well-being

(01:17):
belongs to all of us. And wewill all be better served if
every human in leadership,regardless of party, ideology,
race, or geography are happier,healthier, and more connected.
This show is about resourcingyou, the human doing leadership
and trusting you to make up yourown damn mind about what to do

(01:38):
with it and what's best for yourcommunity. So as always, with
love, here we go. In thisepisode, I sit down with the
best human I know, my betterhalf, and my partner in life and

(01:59):
love, Jamie Boudemeyer.
We discussed the intersection ofauthenticity, leadership,
emotional intelligence, andsuccess. We delve deeply into
Jamie's background growing up inLawton, Oklahoma. The childhood
patterns, the unconsciousprogramming she picked up as a

(02:20):
little one that both empoweredand held her back later in life.
Jamie shares where herinsecurities and limiting
beliefs held her back frombecoming the Broadway star in
New York that she wanted to be,but ultimately planted the seeds
of her future success. Sheshares how embracing emotions,
owning her fear, and cultivatingemotional mastery skills freed

(02:43):
her to become the world classcoach and leader of leaders that
I get to see and experienceevery day, all essential skills
for leaders like you in highstakes environments.
We dive into practical practiceslike nonviolent communication,
somatic awareness, the power ofcommunity to foster healing and
connection. And she also offersinsights on what it's like to be

(03:08):
a partner of a public servant,me, and what that was like for
her as I served in office andother roles in the community,
what she learned that you canuse about how to show up as a
spouse and partner to contributeto a conscious relationship that
safeguards and supercharges boththe partnership and the role and

(03:31):
service. This episode is aheartfelt invitation for you to
step into your fullest potentialby integrating the human
experience into your practice ofleadership. Jamie has been right
here with me, helping me findthe courage, compassion, and
authenticity to be with you heretoday and with my clients every

(03:57):
day. And I know her wisdom willhelp you find more of these
things for yourself.
So without further ado, pleaseenjoy this beautiful, connective
and lovely conversation. We havea very, very, very special guest
with us today. Her name is JamieBoudemeyer. Jamie is not only a

(04:22):
remarkable professionaltransformational life coach, one
of the most sought after inAspen, Colorado

Speaker 2 (04:28):
Top it.

Speaker 1 (04:29):
The head coach for ELC. Her craft exists at the
intersection of artistry andentrepreneurship, something
unique and beautiful. Jamie'sclient roster includes
remarkable women CEOs,billionaires, and leaders of all
kinds working 1 to 1 and ingroups. Her signature program,

(04:51):
the leading lady, helps womenstep out of the background and
into the main stage of theirlives, and I have seen it work.
She is a number of things priorto that.
Her wins are many, the cocreator of the Body Alive
practice at Aspen Shakti here inAspen, which I have seen shift

(05:12):
and change bodies and lives allover this country. She is a
professional yoga practitioner.She spent time making her way in
the musical theater world. Wait.What do you say?
You say theater?

Speaker 2 (05:24):
Theater.

Speaker 1 (05:25):
Theater world. A graduate of the theater School
at at the University ofOklahoma, one of the best in the
country,

Speaker 2 (05:34):
a Boomer Center.

Speaker 1 (05:35):
A former miss teen Oklahoma, 3rd runner-up, miss
Oklahoma. And in this house, mypartner, my better half, my
love, we are going to just divein and see where it goes, and I
know that there will be so manybits of wisdom to come out for
the audience that they can usein their own lives. And I just

(05:56):
wanna thank for being here firstand foremost.

Speaker 2 (05:57):
You're welcome. Thank you for having me. And I also
just wanna say, I didn't know Iwas doing this podcast until,
like, 20 minutes ago. And todayis a day where I I'm usually not
on camera, so hence my cooldinosaur hair and hat. I'm a
very professional coach.
I like to spiffy up, but today,you're getting a little more of

(06:18):
casual, quirky Jamie.

Speaker 1 (06:20):
I think they're crinkle cut crinkle cut French
fries.

Speaker 2 (06:23):
This is the crinkle cut French fry hair look.

Speaker 1 (06:25):
I like them.

Speaker 2 (06:25):
Thanks.

Speaker 1 (06:26):
They're fun. So let's start at the beginning, and just
give people a sense of where youare from growing up in Lawton,
Oklahoma. Mhmm. To Brad andLinda, by way of Mimi and
others.

Speaker 2 (06:39):
Shout out.

Speaker 1 (06:40):
Shout out. But tell us a little bit about your
childhood, where you came from,and who you are.

Speaker 2 (06:47):
Okay. So like Skippy said, I was born in a small town
called Lawton, Oklahoma. It'sthe southwest corner of the
state of Oklahoma, about 45minutes from the Texas border,
and I grew up in a verytraditional, conservative Bible
Belt home. I would say there wasreligious connotations in the

(07:12):
house, but not a lot ofreligious direct implementation
in the house. Dogma.
Dogma. Correct. The culturewhere I grew up is that you
definitely go to church and youdefinitely only vote one way,
and that was just my normal. Iam a 5th generation Lawtonian.
I'm the 1st in 5 generations toleave, not just the state of

(07:35):
Oklahoma, but the town ofLawton.
And I grew up an only child. Myparents said it took them about
6 years to have me, and so I wasa blessing. I was a miracle
baby, and they adored me. Imean, I had a really beautiful
set of parents and upbringing. Iwas dancing in the studio

(07:57):
multiple times a week from theage of 4 to 18 until I left the
house for college.
I tried soccer once, and itdidn't go well.

Speaker 1 (08:05):
What's the story?

Speaker 2 (08:07):
I was a goalie in kindergarten, and the other team
didn't score. So I was standingthere the whole time, and I was
like, mom, take me back to thedance studio. This isn't
working.

Speaker 1 (08:17):
In the middle of the game. Right? Yeah.

Speaker 2 (08:19):
In the middle of the game. I was like, I just wanna
do dance. We can let this sportsthing go.

Speaker 1 (08:23):
Just good foreshadowing because you make
snap intuitive, but deepdecisions still.

Speaker 2 (08:28):
I do. Yes. I do.

Speaker 1 (08:30):
So your mom is also a beauty queen. She's also a
artist, a singer, a performer.How much of that is nature
versus nurture for you?

Speaker 2 (08:44):
Probably both. Yeah. My mom was miss Lawton. And so
every year, we'd go to the missLawton pageant, and she would
get to walk across the stage,and I would get to walk with
her. And after the show, I wouldalways go up on the stage with
my little brochure and get thesignatures of all the girls.
I thought they were just sobeautiful, so cool. So they were
really my first role models.Then when I turned 11, my mom

(09:08):
took me to miss Oklahoma, and Isaid, I wanna do that. That
looks really fun. And thepageant lane was my parents' way
of getting me on a stage withthe limited resources that they
did have being in such a smalllittle bubble down in Lawton.

(09:28):
So that was my first sense ofwanting to spend time in
studios, practicing my craft,singing, and dancing. And then
there then when I got into highschool, I had an incredible
theater teacher that said, youare really good at this, and you
can do this. And she wasamazing. I I had I didn't know

(09:50):
what I wanted to do for collegeuntil really the last part of my
junior year. I knew I wasperforming, but I think I had
this story in my mind that thatwasn't attainable, that wasn't
possible.

Speaker 1 (10:00):
What wasn't attainable or possible?

Speaker 2 (10:01):
A professional artist. This was high school.
And my theater teacher at lunchevery day for my whole senior
year, she would coach me on mymonologues and get me ready for
college auditions. Ignorance isbliss in this case for me
because I had no idea what typeof competitive environment that

(10:25):
really was. I was fortunateenough to get into the only 2
schools that I auditioned for,which were both state schools,
because that's all my parentscould afford.
And then when I got to collegeand I was one of 10 people in
the class that got accepted inthis program, everyone else was
from all over the country andtelling me their woes and trials
and tribulations of auditioningfor, you know, all the schools.

Speaker 1 (10:48):
If you are, like, looking back now, now that you
know how challenging it wasMhmm. And you put yourself in
the shoes of the collegeadmissions officer, what do you
think they saw in theapplication or in you that made
them accept you into theprogram?

Speaker 2 (11:04):
I don't know. You'd have to ask them, I guess, but I
think if I were to do a littleself reflection, at a young age,
felt just so in my body. Like,me and the music, I just knew. I
know music. I know how to workwith it.
I know how to move to it. I knowhow to really connect with it.

(11:24):
And you see this in me now. Ilove making playlists for all of
my classes and I love it. Itdoesn't matter what the song or
the performance is.
What matters is how you embodyit, how you show up to it, and I
think I really just go all in.When I want something in life,
even if I'm not the, quote,unquote, best or don't really

(11:46):
know what I'm doing, I'm gonnago all in.

Speaker 1 (11:49):
There are a number of people, myself included, who
might want to go up on a stage,sing a song, perform, be seen,
be funny, be respected, whateveryou the story is that comes with
it. Mhmm. And yet, as soon as Iget on this stage, there's so
much self there's so much fear.

Speaker 2 (12:11):
Mhmm.

Speaker 1 (12:12):
Lack of self confidence, self questioning.
What am I doing here? Do I lookweird? Am I moving right? What
was my line?
And I just would get so in myhead that I wouldn't be able to
do the thing that I wanna do.Mhmm. Do do you have any of that
going on back then?

Speaker 2 (12:28):
Well, sure. For sure. For sure. And growing up, what
my teachers always used to saywas fake it till you make it.
And now as a coach in thepersonal development space, I
cringe at that saying because mywhole life's mission is to help
myself and other people becomeso authentically themselves and

(12:48):
operate from their mostauthentic, worthy, whole selves
all the times.
But back then in the day, again,ignorance, Elizabeth has I
didn't know better. So Iremember there were a couple of
local preliminary pageants toget to the state level when I
was a teenager that I justdidn't wanna do it. I was a
teenager, you know. On on theweekends, I wanted to be going
to the football games, not,like, performing and

(13:10):
entertaining. And, yeah, I wasgoing to compete in these
preliminary pageants to go andpursue, you know, the state
titles where I just didn't wantto do it.
And, thankfully, I had parentsthat kind of pushed me and
forced me. I don't know. I goback and forth between there's
times where I think parents haveto parent their kid, and there's

(13:30):
times where they are there tocoach their kid. And in this
moment, my I think my mom was alittle bit of both, and she was
like, you are going to do this.We committed to this.
I paid the the admission fee.We've, you know, done all this
time in getting you ready forthis, and now you don't want it.
And when I think about it, I wasscared. Like, there it's such an

(13:50):
interesting thing as aperformer. And as a human, I at
a core deep level, we all justwanna be seen and heard for
exactly who and what we are.
However, we all have developedthese different personas or
masks, AKA personalities, thatreally block us from creating
that authentic connection thatwe all deeply, deeply desire.
And as a performer, the beliefstructure that I started taking

(14:13):
on as a little kid was, oh, I amonly worthy and loved in the
world if I'm performing. Sothere was this ability to, like,
you know, quote, unquote, turnit on and, like, become the
persona of Jamie on stage, the

Speaker 1 (14:26):
amazing person. Affirmation for that behavior
and so that behavior built.

Speaker 2 (14:31):
Exactly. Exactly. And so there there's pros and cons
to that fake it till you make itthing. I think sometimes when we
have a goal in life, there'smoments where we don't wanna do
it. We just don't, and that'sokay.
We get fear. We get we getdoubt. We we start
procrastinating, and all of thatreally, in my belief, is an ego

(14:53):
mechanism. It's trying toprotect us from feeling
vulnerable or being rejected bythe said audience that you're
speaking to, maybe a sense offailure. Right?
It's like maybe when I was thosemoments where I didn't wanna
compete, there was really adeeper fear going on of, well,
what if I go out there and Igive it my all and I don't win?
Right? And at a young age, Ireally started correlating, and

(15:15):
a lot of people do. I thinkregardless if if they're
entertainers or performers orathletes or not, that they start
to create this misunderstandinginside their psyche that they
can only be loved and acceptedif they achieve, if they win, if
they perform a certain way.

Speaker 1 (15:31):
So what actually transpired when that happened?
Which is to say in this pursuit,in this pageant world, you had a
lot of wins. Tell us a littlebit about and how that felt, but
then, ultimately, at some point,there's a quote, unquote loss.
You don't end up miss America.Yeah.
You don't end up miss Oklahoma,or they're very close. Mhmm. So

(15:53):
what actually happens when thatmaybe worst fear is realized?

Speaker 2 (15:57):
Well, for me, personally, I had 1 year left in
the system because you can atthat time, after 24 years old,
you aged out. You could nolonger compete. I was 23, and I
had one more year to go. And Ithink it was a little bit of
both for me. I think deep down,I was I was ready to to retire.
There was a part of me that wasready to move on. However, I

(16:20):
also will be fully transparentand be really real and say that
there was also a part of me thatwas so afraid at the time to
face the fear of, like, oh mygod. I just gave 10 years of my
life to this organization, tothis dream of becoming miss
America, and it's not going tohappen. And that if not and at
the time, I didn't have thetools to really feel that fee

(16:44):
that feeling and really embracethe, quote, unquote, failure.

Speaker 1 (16:49):
I wanna understand what's going on in your head
better. And so I think I canrelate to this, but I wanna know
if the dynamic for you is thesame for me, which is when I was
roughly that age, a little bityounger, I was in collegiate
sports as a skier, and I wascompeting on the world tour in
big mountain skiing. Mhmm. And Ihad been getting incrementally
better. I was never, like, apodium finisher.

(17:10):
You know? I was a middlingathlete in the top area, but I
had a specific competition whereI skied what was for me a really
good run. Stuck all thelandings, came out fast, felt
good. My score was like a topten score, And I'm sitting at
the bottom feeling proud ofmyself. And this is at the
national championship branch.

(17:31):
It's like a big thing. And Iwatched the I think it was
Julian Carr, if memory serves,who goes on to be one of the,
you know, biggest athletes, filmstars, etcetera, comes in over
the line where I had linkedtogether all these different
airs and cliffs, and it's an icyday and throws this huge

(17:52):
backflip off, like, a 100 footcliff, stops it clean, and skis
out. Yeah. And I just rememberthinking at that time, I will
never do that. I don't have thatin me.
Like, whatever that guy's got, Iain't got it. And that was my
last competition.

Speaker 2 (18:07):
Mhmm.

Speaker 1 (18:07):
Because I felt like if I wasn't gonna win, I didn't
wanna do it. Same. Was it thesame?

Speaker 2 (18:12):
Exactly. And there's a part of at the time, I thought
I was really owning my story of,like, well, I'm

Speaker 1 (18:18):
gonna take control of this.

Speaker 2 (18:20):
Yeah. I'm gonna quit you before you can't reject me.
Right? Sure. I think on an egolevel, that is is the case, but
years to follow after that.
And even when I moved to NewYork and started pursuing
theater, I wasn't going toauditions. It was real for me. I
moved to New York to pursue thisperformance life, and I wasn't

(18:42):
auditioning because I was soterrified. I did not have the
resources to embrace failure, toaccept, quote, unquote, defeat
and rejection, and it's really,really painful. So I also you
know, to kinda loop back to yourquestion around people that
desire to be seen maybe in astage way, I think the the irony

(19:06):
in everything in what we do ascoaches is the things that we're
avoiding, rejection,disappointment, failure.
When you learn to embrace andaccept those parts of the human
experience, you get really free.I heard something amazing today.
I think it goes really well withthis. I was on a mastermind call
with my bestest coach friends inthe world. We call ourselves the

(19:29):
Wu Tang, even though none of usknow the Wu Tang.
Skippy does. And, Natalie, sheis an incredible coach that
coaches athletes. She wastelling us this amazing story on
a podcast that she heard aboutKobe Bryant that I feel like not
a lot of pop culture reallyknows about and is a big part of

(19:50):
Kobe Bryant's success. In thebackground, Kobe had parents at
the games on the sidelines thatwould say things to him. You
know, Kobe, whether you win orlose, we love you.
And I think my parents did saythat to me. I don't remember it.
Right? And I just wanna say myparents are lovely humans. They

(20:11):
weren't like these tigerparents.
They were like, if you lose,don't come home tonight. It was
not that at all. But to haveparents or teams or whoever it
is say to children and adults,like, win or lose, no matter how
you perform today, you are soloved and accepted. Right? And
then at that moment, like,Kobe's like, well, game on.

(20:32):
Like, I can just play and bepresent and enjoy the process.
I'm not having to play to proveor play to win or play to, you
know, not disappoint people. Ican play knowing that I have
this unconditional love andacceptance underneath me really
supporting me. I think that'sjust so incredible. And if more
people had that withinthemselves and surrounded
themselves with communitymembers and family and friends
that really said, embodying ourfullest potential in our human

(21:04):
experience, and especially asleaders.
I think for leaders, especiallyto learn how to, quote, unquote,
take the mask off and letthemselves be seen vulnerably
and authentically, which as weknow in the political space is
really, really challenging, Ithink we would we would we would
heal our politics.

Speaker 1 (21:21):
Being there through thick and thin, of having
assurance that those people haveyour back and you have theirs,
that you'll be held to accountinto a high standard, but that
you will also be supported whenyou fall short. And so I think
whether you are running adepartment in a city, or you're

(21:44):
part of a school board, oryou're a peace officer, the
recognition is that you don'thave to wait for someone else to
do that. That you can startdoing that behavior, and that
that behavior will be contagiousbecause others want to be seen
and held in that way, but youalso can't fake it. And in fact,

(22:07):
if you do, and you get caught,like you say, I'm here for
whatever, and then you don't dothat, you will cause more harm
than you're doing good becausenow everyone else on the team
will not trust you even further.So it has to be from a truly
authentic place for it to work.
Mhmm. But I wanna go back tothis being too afraid to

(22:27):
audition for fear of failure.Mhmm. Because I imagine that
there are a number of listenersout there who really want to
apply for, a new position.

Speaker 2 (22:39):
Or run for an elected

Speaker 1 (22:40):
office. In office or take the next step in their
career or publicly advocate fora new policy and are like you or
in my words, you tell me if thisis wrong, but we're sort of
paralyzed in action by fear.

Speaker 2 (22:59):
Totally.

Speaker 1 (23:00):
So could you share what that felt like for you at
the time and how it presented?Are you like doing the work and
sketching out your schedule? I'mgoing to hear to hear to hear
and then just ghosting them notshowing up. Are you not even
putting the application in?Like, what are you physically
doing?

Speaker 2 (23:18):
All of the above. All of the above. And this was
something I observed happeningunconsciously and unconsciously
with a lot of aspiringperformers and actors moving to
the city to make it. And sofirst off, you you know, coming
out of college, I had no money.So first things first, I gotta
get a job to pay the bills.

(23:40):
And the job, I also have tomaneuver those hour. It has to
be a flexible enough job, so Iam making time to actually go to
the auditions to try to get workin the actual field and industry
that I wanna get work in. And Iwould go to the auditions, but I
wasn't really there. I would getso psyched out and people are

(24:02):
singing. People are putting ontheir makeup in the mirror.
People are, you know, doingthese crazy dance moves. And if
you are not confident in who youare and really okay with who you
are, I mean, for me personally,some people I think become a
tiger and they go into thatfight, like, I'm gonna prove you
energy or they shrink into,like, a turtle. And I definitely

(24:23):
shrunk into a turtle shell. Andfrom the time you got to the
venue to audition until youaudition, it could be anywhere
from an hour to 6 hours. Andthen they might get to the end
of the day, and the theproducers and directors are
tired, so they're like, comeback tomorrow.
You were in a room all dayfighting your psyche and your
emotions and your nervous systemfor hours and hours and hours.

(24:46):
You missed a whole day ofworking to pay your bills. It
was a tough, tough cycle, and Iwas just tired at that point. I
think after putting my my bodyand being in a similar type of
environment for years withpageants when it was actually
time for me to pursue theperformance thing. I was I was

(25:06):
really tired and broke.

Speaker 1 (25:08):
Yeah. And I wonder just knowing you and how you're
wired

Speaker 2 (25:12):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (25:12):
And how challenged you can be by densely packed,
highly human environments.

Speaker 2 (25:21):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (25:22):
I wonder how much of your aversion to the interview
process or rehearsal processAudition. Audition audition
process was not the audition inthe room itself was but was all
of the lead up and the room youhad to be in and the environment
you were subjugated to andrequired to be in energetically

(25:43):
just before you did theimportant act.

Speaker 2 (25:45):
Exactly. And that is such a metaphor for life.
Everything leading up to theactual moment that you were on
stage, everything happeningbehind the scenes, everything
that you were doing in your lifethat is not the actual, quote,
unquote, performance or theleadership position, all of that

(26:05):
really, really matters. I didn'thave the nervous system
regulation tools that I havenow. I did not have any sort of
mindset mental mastery, youknow, ways that I could really
keep myself present and in mybody in the in those spaces of
waiting for hours and hours andhours.
I would just would psych myselfout, And it really it really

(26:27):
hurts to know that you are agifted and talented performer or
that you are a gifted andtalented leader, but you just
can't get out of your own way.And at the time, I could not get
out of my own way.

Speaker 1 (26:38):
And I asked you to close your eyes for a second.

Speaker 2 (26:40):
Oh.

Speaker 1 (26:42):
And I want you to bring into your energetic space,
like, the most empowered, themost aligned, the most the most
knowledgeable version ofprofessional badass woman
warrior coach Jamie. And I wantyou to just feel her in your
presence. And then as you tapinto her, I want you to imagine

(27:05):
she's floating up above yourphysical form, looking down at
you sitting in this room, andthen she lifts her gaze, and out
in the distance, she sees 10 ishyears ago, Jamie, kind of small
in her turtle shell, justperseverating over if she's

(27:28):
going to go to an interview ornot. And you kinda fly over
there, because obviously thisversion of you can fly, and hop
down into that little studio orone bedroom in New York, and sit
down on the floor, crisscrossapplesauce in front of younger,
insecure, we'll call her Jamie,and you have a microphone to

(27:54):
share with her all the thingsthat she could do differently to
show up in the room the way shewants? What would you share with
her?

Speaker 2 (28:04):
I would just say, sweetheart, it's really okay
that you're feeling like aturtle right now. It is so okay
that you're scared. It is sookay that you're feeling
defeated, that you're feelinglike a failure, that you you
feel like you wasted years ofyour life, and now you're not
doing it. And I just it's reallyokay that in this moment, this

(28:26):
is where you're at. And I loveyou, and I'm here for you.
And regardless of whatever youchoose, I will always be here
for you.

Speaker 1 (28:34):
So you're offering her permission to accept her
reality?

Speaker 2 (28:39):
Mhmm.

Speaker 1 (28:40):
And then if she does that, if she just accepts her
reality and she says, okay. Iget that this is okay for me to
feel this way, is thatsufficient to set her up to now
be successful, or are thereadditional things that you would
have her do or different waysyou would have her show up or

(29:01):
prepare or decompress, all theabove?

Speaker 2 (29:05):
I would I would just put in her house. I'd just say,
you know, well, what do youwanna do? How what do you wanna
do right now? And I'll and I'llsupport you in whatever that is.
Probably at that time, she wasprobably like, I just don't
wanna do it right now.

Speaker 1 (29:18):
Mhmm.

Speaker 2 (29:20):
And I think, you know, in the healing that I've
done between then and now, a lotof the healing has been around
rewriting the story inside of mybody and being that I quit. And,
actually, you know, I did. I didquit. I quit that dream, but the
meaning that I made that momentmean, like, for years of, like,

(29:40):
I failed. I'm a quitter.
That wasn't helping. And socreating a new narrative around
what that meant and just beingat peace and accepting what
happened that okay. I did quit,but I don't have to make that
mean anything about me. Becausewhen we lay as we know now in
the coaching world, like, whatif we label ourselves a quitter,
a failure, it our our we gethooked in that story and

(30:04):
narrative, and then we won't gopursue other things because
we're afraid to repeat the sameexperience from the past.

Speaker 1 (30:11):
Yeah. Once you identify with the label, then
you will unconsciously projectthat outcome, which you claim to
not want into the future. Mhmm.And in doing so, you will have
repeatable evidence

Speaker 2 (30:26):
Mhmm.

Speaker 1 (30:26):
Of that, which will deepen the belief over time, and
it becomes a self fulfillingprophecy. And so what I'm
hearing you say is that thefirst step to shifting that
energy is acceptance. Mhmm.

Speaker 2 (30:40):
Well,

Speaker 1 (30:40):
I guess the first step is awareness. This is going
on for me. Mhmm. Then there'sacceptance of it.

Speaker 2 (30:46):
Mhmm.

Speaker 1 (30:47):
From that place, the energy is freed up to do
something differently with it.Mhmm. So then let's move to that
Mhmm. Which is let's assume youdidn't want to give up, but you
wanted to continue. You wantedto get a role on Broadway.
What what actions would you takedifferently knowing what you
know now? Well, I

Speaker 2 (31:05):
would have hired a coach if I could have afforded
it back then. Definitely. Ithink I really isolated myself
in that experience, and scienceis showing more and more and
more that so much healing andpersonal development happens
when we surround ourselves withlike minded people. I think I
would have found a supportsystem back in the day. And, you

(31:28):
know, knowing what I know aboutthe nervous system now, I would
I would have really learned tofeel the feeling I was avoiding
feeling.
Because a lot of the times,again, going to the the stage
metaphor, we don't quote unquoteput ourselves out there or get
on stage to, you know, be letourselves be seen or share a
message with a community orwhoever you're speaking with

(31:50):
because we're afraid to feelsomething. So we think if we
avoid it, we don't have to feelit, but that is not a long term
strategy to really living a biglife. The the people that I know
and see and, blessed to to beable to coach in this life, when

(32:10):
they become free of the feelingof the thing that they're
avoiding, they go do it becausethey've created safety inside
their body to feel that sense ofdisappointment. I was on a call
again with a friend today who isdoing amazing work in her
business, and she has somereally elite people in her

(32:31):
world. And she said she's like,I just I'm feeling like I gotta
show up.
I feel like I'm gonna let themdown, that I'm not gonna be able
to hold amazing space for themin the way that I want to. And
so she'd processed in her ownway. You know? Like, okay. Let
me just feel that part inside ofme right now that doesn't feel
good enough.
Let me feel that fear of, like,okay. What if I let these people

(32:52):
down? And it's counterintuitivebecause a lot of us weren't
taught to feel anything otherthan joy and ecstasy and
happiness and all these higheremotions on the emotional rating
scale. Right? But, ironically,when you embrace disappointment,
when you embrace not enoughness,when you embrace failure, when
you embrace rejection, that isthe ultimate freedom because

(33:16):
you're not manipulating life,like I like to say, to be
different than what it is.
So you don't feel a feeling.

Speaker 1 (33:22):
So I get curious. The Jamie that I met and got to know
early on impressed the hell outof me by her. Yes. Yes. But very
specifically in your confidenceand willingness to invest in
yourself, and take what I wouldhave personally considered very

(33:47):
outsized financial risks to doit.
For instance, when you werefirst taking your master
certification and coachingprogram, you invested, I think
in the 2nd year, somewhere,approximately 80% of your income
upfront. So 80% of what I willmake this year, mind you, this

(34:09):
isn't coming out of savings.Like there's nothing in that.
Yeah. I'm just throwing it on acredit card and that's going to
work.
And that, those were decisionsthat like, really, I was like,
wow, like that's amazing. And Iwouldn't have done. So how did
you shift from too scared to goto an audition to 80% of my

(34:34):
income on a credit card won't bean issue?

Speaker 2 (34:36):
Yeah. There's a lot in there, my love. There's a lot
of steps. I think probably afterthat chapter of my life closed
of closing down the I'm gonnapursue performing in Broadway
chapter and I was in the spaceof exploration of like, okay.
Well, then what what is next?

(34:56):
I think, oh, I think I know. Iknow I made a commitment to
myself at that time, and Ididn't know how or when, but I
just knew that I was never goingto take myself out of the game
of a big dream that I haveagain. Like because that felt
really terrible doing that thefirst time. And I didn't know

(35:16):
how I was going to not do thatagain, but I just I think I just
made an internal vow to myselfat that time of, like, I am not
going to let my mind really andmy lack of emotional
intelligence to take me out ofthe game of life. And I wasn't

(35:41):
looking for coaching.
It was it I was not looking forcoaching. I knew I had the
ability to perform in front ofpeople. I knew I had the ability
to hold space for people, and Iknew I loved the healing arts.
And so that's when I started theyoga journey. It's a skill that
I have that I can do in my sleepnow.
I've I just it's just so in me.I love it.

Speaker 1 (36:03):
And Did you when you first started, did you have any
of that same performanceanxiety? Do you can you recall?

Speaker 2 (36:08):
I don't think I did because it was I, you know, I
moved to Aspen. I moved toAspen, Colorado. I didn't know a
soul. And I had this just I havenothing to lose mentality. I
don't know anybody.
I'm the new girl in town. I'mgonna get my yoga certification,
and I'm gonna start teachingclasses. And my skills and gifts
of performing really translatedthere. However, in a more

(36:31):
intimate, you know, environment,like a yoga class versus, you
know, a big stage with lights,people really see you. So I
couldn't come into I mean, Icould have, but it would have
been inauthentic to come into asmall intimate yoga studio and
ask for the Colorado and belike, here I am.
Welcome to class. Right? It'sjust super gimmicking. Like, I I
really had to the and that's thebeauty of the healing arts and

(36:53):
and yoga and spiritualpsychology and all of these, you
know, modalities of reallylearning to understand who the f
you are. You're really requiredto to die.
You're really required to shed alot of skins because people can
feel that in a room. And I stillsay that to this day. No matter
what, I don't care if you're themost if you have, like, the

(37:15):
craziest sequence of a yogaclass or if you have the most
accolades, you know, if I'm,like, going to some sort of
event and there's speakers thereand the speakers have all the
accolades, like, all that reallydoesn't matter. What matters is
the energy that you bring into aroom and how you hold a room.

(37:35):
And that is a skill that thepolitical space could really
benefit from.
There's a lot of words in thepolitical space. There's a lot
of talking, talking, talking,and there's not a lot of
embodiment. Mhmm. That really isthe way of consciousness
expanding in today's world isreally how do you how do you

(37:58):
make people feel when you walkinto a room? Before you open
your mouth, how do you feel?
So, yeah, when I when I wentfrom, you know, big stage energy
to a small yoga room, itrequired a different part of me
to show up in the space. Mhmm.And it was a part that I really
liked and a part that I didn'tknow existed because up until my

(38:19):
yoga journey for years, youknow, remember, I was this
little girl who was buying intothe misunderstanding that she
had to perform a certain way inorder to be loved. And then I
was in these yoga rooms withstudents. They just want Jamie.
They didn't want me to perform.

Speaker 1 (38:36):
Although it doesn't hurt when you sing in Shavasana.

Speaker 2 (38:39):
Yes. I still am asked to sing in Shavasana a lot. I
love it. Yeah. Thanks, honey.
And I love that. I love that nowI'm in this place where all of
me in in coaching has done thatfor me. It's really allowed all
parts of me to be seen, and Iget and I love that I have the
ability to kinda titrate betweenthe different archetypes of

(38:59):
Jamie. You know, when I'mholding a client in a 1 on 1
intimate space versus when I'mleading a retreat and, yeah, the
performer comes on, and I lovethat that's still there. I know
with all this personaldevelopment work and healing
journey I've been on, now theperformer, she's she's real.
She's she's not faking it tillshe makes it anymore. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (39:20):
So now you're here and you're a coach

Speaker 2 (39:23):
Mhmm.

Speaker 1 (39:24):
What does it mean to you to be a coach? Mhmm.

Speaker 2 (39:27):
My job as a coach is to embody the presence of
unconditional love.

Speaker 1 (39:36):
Mhmm. A

Speaker 2 (39:37):
lot of us, if not all of us, didn't really get that
presence of unconditional love.So I'm not there to be my
client's parents, but in a way,I really am. Even before my
mouth opens in a call, I I closemy eyes. I say a prayer, and I
just say, let me be the presenceof love for this person, however
that shows up. So in a way, Ikinda am, like, being the parent

(40:00):
that they didn't get.
I'm not, you know, treating themlike a child, but I'm really
trying to embody the presence ofunconditional love. That is my
job as a coach. Just being inthe presence of love, whether
someone realizes it or not orwhether they're they have this
language that you and I arespeaking right now or not, it's
felt. Mhmm. And when you feellove, unconditional love, you

(40:21):
feel safe.

Speaker 1 (40:22):
Mhmm.

Speaker 2 (40:22):
And when you feel safe, your nervous system relax,
your parasympathetic goes on,and you start to receive better
guidance and insights from yourown inner wisdom.

Speaker 1 (40:34):
Mhmm.

Speaker 2 (40:35):
So to wrap that up, my job as a coach is to be the
presence of unconditional loveso my clients can have access to
their own innate, unique,individual wisdom.

Speaker 1 (40:45):
So I'm hearing that you are creating an energetic
container that allows the clientto release from the fight or
flight place that they inhabitmore than they want, which
presents as anxiety, stress,overwhelm, fear, indecision, and

(41:09):
allows them to tap into a morebase essence, unpatterned
version of themselves. And thenfrom within that container, you
are leading them through varioustools, awarenesses, practices,
conversations.

Speaker 2 (41:29):
So they can do that for themselves without me there.

Speaker 1 (41:32):
What would some of those things that you would do
in a container look like?

Speaker 2 (41:36):
Mhmm. So many things. So a lot of us get lost in our
stories. You know? There was acoach once that said I can't
remember his name right now, soI can't give credit where credit
is due, but he would coachpeople live in front of big
audiences.
And the person he was coachingwould just go on and on and on

(41:57):
and on and on about the problemthat they're having. And he
would so massively, like,interrupt them and say, I don't
need your context right now. Ijust need your content. So one
of the ways that helps, I think,all of us really heal and
uplevel is having somebodylovingly call us out when we are

(42:19):
stuck in our patterns that areholding us back. And a pattern
that a lot of us have is weloop.
We loop, we loop, we loop onproblems Yeah. Versus being able
to stop ourselves in our trackand really go to the root of
where that looping is comingfrom.

Speaker 1 (42:36):
Mhmm.

Speaker 2 (42:37):
So I think one way of really supporting someone is, a,
helping them identify whatcurrent pattern or belief system
or way of being do they perceiveas holding them back from
getting the thing that theywant. And then that pattern gets
projected into the space in acoaching container all the time.

(42:57):
And so to be the coach thatsays, hey. You're doing it
again. You see?
Mhmm. You're doing that thing.That doubt, there it is again.
And not to make that wrong, butjust to help someone call it out
and be like, oh, there there'smy thing again. That's where I'm
getting hooked in my own storyand my own suffering again.
That's really, really powerfulfor people. Another big area of

(43:18):
coaching that I really thrive inand feel really, really is
helpful, and I feel confident inserving people is emotional
mastery in, as we like to say,expanding their capacity to hold
for all the feelings. Like I wassaying earlier, there's there's
you know, our emotions have afrequency. Every single emotion
has a different frequency. And alot of the times, we only wanna

(43:41):
feel the higher vibrationalfrequency emotions because they
feel good, and they're awesome.
Gratitude, love, joy, ecstasy,happiness, all of that is great.
However, there's a a beautifullibrary of so many other
emotions, and a lot of humansare afraid to feel maybe some of
those, quote, unquote, loweremotions because they're afraid

(44:04):
they're gonna get sucked in itor it's not gonna feel good. And
really what I'm learning aboutemotions as a coach is that they
are wisdom. They have so muchamazing wisdom that they're
trying to get us as the human tosee. Yeah.
And so when we learn how to bewith an emotion, not indulge in

(44:25):
it and also not avoid it, butreally hold that emotion inside
of ourselves in a beautiful way,we can hold it. We can accept
it, and we can extract thelessons from it and move on more
masterfully.

Speaker 1 (44:36):
Mhmm. I can relate to the suppression of emotions. I
was one of those people that gottrained that happiness was the
only acceptable emotion. Yeah.Received affirmation for
embodying happiness

Speaker 2 (44:50):
Mhmm.

Speaker 1 (44:51):
And received consequence for not. Mhmm. And
so I learned, I think, as othersmay be listening too. And I I
didn't know this consciously atthe time, but alcohol was a
really great emotionalsuppressant.

Speaker 2 (45:04):
Mhmm.

Speaker 1 (45:04):
It is a reliable way to not feel feelings. Yeah. And
it can feel in the moment, like,what a relief. I had such a
stressful day. I'm all over theplace, and let me just have a
couple bourbons, and all of asudden, like, my head isn't
going a 100 miles an hour.
Mhmm. And It's

Speaker 2 (45:20):
very effective.

Speaker 1 (45:21):
Well

Speaker 2 (45:22):
Until it's not?

Speaker 1 (45:23):
Yes and no. Right? It it is effective in shutting down
the hamster wheel that'sspinning too fast in my head.
I'll use myself in this.However, it is not effective at
all in changing the condition ofthe hamster, or the wheel, or
the thoughts.
And so the next morning, it'sright back on. Nothing's been

(45:44):
resolved. And when I you don'tresolve something over time, the
core condition compounds.

Speaker 2 (45:50):
Yeah. I say a lot in my practice, if avoiding
feelings worked, I would totallyteach you and coach you how to
do that, but it doesn't.

Speaker 1 (46:00):
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and starting today. So what aresome of the other behaviors that
you commonly see in yourpractice of people avoiding
behaviors, such that if anyone'slistening and they're like, oh,

(48:32):
I do that.
I do that. Maybe it's just alittle, like, I wonder if I'm
avoiding something even if it'snot conscious, or what would it
be like to try cessation of thatbehavior for a week just to see
if anything else comes up or Inotice? Just to add to their
emotional portfolio potentially.

Speaker 2 (48:50):
Yeah. Avoiding can be really sneaky. It can be really
obvious sometimes, but it canalso be really, really subtle. A
few of my clients that maybeavoid having a challenging
conversation with a partner,because as children, they were
taught to not rock the boat atall. There's avoiding
conversations not to feel acertain emotion comes up a lot

(49:10):
for people.
You know, speaking to theleaders as well. Sometimes, I
think people in leadership putthemselves in leadership
positions as a safety mechanism,I can relate to that in some
ways. I think I am a naturalborn leader. I think it's my
path to be a leader, and I'vealso been noticing lately some
of the shadow sides of being aleader where sometimes you, you

(49:33):
know, put yourself so separatefrom the audience because you
really don't want them to see,you know, a crunchier, more,
quote, unquote, vulnerable partof your human experience. Right?
It's like the leader can alsowear a mask as well of, like,
let me be here so I can keep mydistance.

Speaker 1 (49:51):
Mhmm. I have an excuse to not share because if I
do, I'm gonna disrupt the team.

Speaker 2 (49:55):
Yeah. Exactly. That can show up a lot. Avoidance
also shows up as you've madethis incredible plan for the a
new product or launch in somepart of your business. You know,
you're about to execute onsomething, but you, you know,
procrastinate.
You shut down the computer, andyou don't really, really go for

(50:17):
it. You don't fully commit.There's, yeah, tons of ways that
we subtly and not so subtlyavoid feeling something.

Speaker 1 (50:26):
Got it. So a few things. I'm just recapping that
people may be doing to avoidfeeling emotions Mhmm. Alcohol
or other drugs, not having hardconversations, creating
separation through role orposition, simply the act of just
not feeling. Like, if you justnotice, hey.
I really don't feel that much.

Speaker 2 (50:46):
Or a lot of the time, I'll help clients in the
beginning. Like, you and I, wetalk we do a lot of 90 day goal
setting for our clients, reallybreaking down goals into bite
sized tangible 90 day plans. AndI'll have a client. They're so
excited. They're making movestowards their 90 day goal, but
then they get almost lost intaking action, but they're

(51:06):
taking action not on the thingsthat they need to be doing.
They're like it's like busywork. Busy work can also show up
as avoidance. Like, you'restaying busy, but are the are
the things that you're actuallydoing moving the needle towards
the goal?

Speaker 1 (51:19):
Busy work and then procrastination. Yeah. Okay. So
that if you're experiencing anyof those things

Speaker 2 (51:25):
Uh-huh.

Speaker 1 (51:25):
You're, like, noticing, oh, I do that. Then
maybe it means something, maybeit doesn't. But the opportunity
is to go explore and see what itwould look like to do something
different for a week. See whatcomes up. Be observationally
aware and acute and open to whatyou learn.
Now that's one side of theemotional bell curve.

Speaker 2 (51:46):
Mhmm.

Speaker 1 (51:46):
The other side, this is kinda more my domain, the
avoidant side. Yeah. The otherside is the indulgent side Yeah.
Which is more your domain.

Speaker 2 (51:53):
Correct.

Speaker 1 (51:53):
So can you describe what emotional indulgence is,
what it might look like, and whyyou would want to pull yourself
out of it, and then how?

Speaker 2 (52:04):
I have to be careful to not get consumed or
overindulgent in the emotion. Ithink indulgers of the world,
I'll just speak for myself, islike, if I just let myself,
like, feel this feeling sodeeply, so indulgently, if I
really just let myself go there,then maybe a, I'll, like, get a

(52:25):
release on the other side of it,or, b, I'll, like, take myself
such a down such a, you know,deep, dark place that I have an
excuse to, like, hide a littlebit. It's like, you know, an
excuse to not to not show up tomy life in the way that I want
to because I'm I'm not feelinggood.

Speaker 1 (52:47):
It could become an all encompassing reality rather
than feeling about reality thatcan inhibit normal flow of life.
So the example that I wasthinking about, we like to
travel together.

Speaker 2 (52:58):
Mhmm.

Speaker 1 (52:59):
And so say we are somewhere brand new that we've
never been, and we are in achallenged area of the city
that's very densely packed,doesn't have law enforcement,
etc.

Speaker 2 (53:10):
A lot

Speaker 1 (53:11):
of crime. And the reality is there is crime. The
reality is we want to see thiscommunity. We want to get to
know people. We want to movethrough it.
We also want to be safe. So bothof us show up. We take a look at
this village. Both of us have ahit of fear. Right?
That's the emotion. It's theearly warning system. It's doing
what it's supposed to do. Theoverly avoidant person, me in

(53:32):
this case, are like, it's fine.It's just a feeling.
It's stupid. We've done this a100 times. It's fine. Let's just
go. No planning.
Walk. And you end up gettingrobbed. The potential downside
in this real world example isyou get robbed because you
didn't take the you didn't takethe information from the thing
seriously. Now on theoverindulgent side, you feel

(53:52):
that fear and you just this isit. This is a 100% gonna happen.
The world is super dangerous. Weshouldn't be here and you never
even go in and you miss theconversation. You miss the
opportunity to explore itsafely. You miss connecting with
people. You go back to theHoliday Inn.
Right? But there's a healthymiddle. Yeah. Where you honor
the fear, where you learn thelesson, take responsible action.

(54:17):
You are on your p's and q's, butyou're not so fearful that you
are projecting that onto people,and you have deep, real
authentic conversations.
You get to know the place andyou stay safe.

Speaker 2 (54:28):
Exactly. So to break that down in that moment, if
that were happening, to be ableto be present to life in that
moment and also honor and acceptthe reality of what you're
feeling and not gaslighting thefear Mhmm. Or or overindulging
in the fear. Mhmm. It wouldprobably look like us taking a
moment to, like, feel the fearfor a second and just name it.

(54:51):
Like, okay. There's some fearhere, and that's okay. This is a
new environment. Things look orfeel a little sketchy. Like,
it's really okay that there'ssome fear here.
Like, we would just embrace andaccept the fear. If that, like
and a lot of the time, fear, itshows up somatically in the body
as, like, a tightening in yourthroat, a pit in your stomach,
like, a constriction around yourheart. For me, a lot when I

(55:13):
fear, it it always comes to theheart. It doesn't really come to
the belly much for me. And so itwould just be around, like,
really just taking a beat, maybeeven closing the eyes,
breathing, feeling the sensationof fear for, you know, a good
window of, like, 30 to 90seconds.
And after we, like, givepresence to that fear, it starts

(55:34):
to subside because all of ouremotions, whatever it is, fear
or anything else, it's justwanting to be met by us. So when
we meet it, like a little kidasking for help, the cortisol
goes down, the fight or flightstarts to to go away, and we can
move into a place of rest andrelaxation. We're coregulating
with ourselves, and we'recoregulating with each other

(55:55):
because we're telling each otheras a couple or, you know, as a
team if this shows up in theprofessional space, like, hey.
What you're feeling is okay.You're safe.
I'm here with you. It's allgood.

Speaker 1 (56:04):
And then when you're out of that immediate autonomic
response and you have a workablehigher cognition brain back,
then you can ask the questionof, like, okay. Well, what
actions can I take

Speaker 2 (56:15):
Not from the fear, but from a grounded place?

Speaker 1 (56:18):
That's right. Yeah. To improve my chances of both
seeing this place that I wannasee And

Speaker 2 (56:24):
being safe.

Speaker 1 (56:25):
And being safe. And so that would look like, like I
always say, you know, a handfulof small things can reduce your
chance of crime in this scenarioby 99%. Yeah. Right? First thing
is

Speaker 2 (56:36):
Walk with confidence. Walk

Speaker 1 (56:37):
with purpose.

Speaker 2 (56:38):
We always talk about.

Speaker 1 (56:39):
And a smile. Because you want people to know you're
friendly, but you don't wanna bea mark. You don't wanna be
clear, and you want it to beobvious you have somewhere to
go. You know what you're doingand where you are.

Speaker 2 (56:49):
And nervous system regulation hack, making eye
contact with people, you startto coregulate. It's just a
signal of safety of, like, hey.I see you.

Speaker 1 (56:57):
Yep. I'm here. I'm doing something. I'm friendly.

Speaker 2 (56:59):
So make eye contact my leaders with your, you know,
constituents and with the theyelling citizen at you.

Speaker 1 (57:06):
And you wanna know where you're going so that you
don't get lost in a in a Eddiewhere you now are backed in and
you don't have any place to go.Yep. You would want to walk with
or have access to a local sothat you have the ability to
communicate if you don't speakthe language.

Speaker 2 (57:21):
Mhmm.

Speaker 1 (57:22):
And you probably would want to have something
both for defense and as a gift.Mhmm. Right? So that you can
extend to someone. So with somevery small examples in this
situation, you can mitigate yourdownside risk by a huge amount
and proceed into the world.
Right?

Speaker 2 (57:40):
Yes. And to make this even more practical for for
people and I'm just eventhinking, like, knowing what I
know now, if and when I was inthat audition room and fear was
coming up, the fear of not beinggood enough, the fear of being
rejected, whatever it is, inthat moment, I would embrace it.
I would be like, okay. Like,there's a chance, honey, that
you're not gonna get this role.

Speaker 1 (58:00):
Mhmm.

Speaker 2 (58:01):
There's a chance that they're not gonna like you, and
that is okay because I'm herewith you now. You're safe with
me. And at the end of the day,of course, on the ego level, we
want other people to see us. Wewant people to see our magic,
see our gifts, but if we can'tsee it for ourselves, we're not
gonna be able to really letpeople see it as well. So same
with leaders.

(58:21):
Like, before going into acouncil meeting or before really
speaking, you know, your truthin a within a com in a in a
crucial conversation with acoworker, like, taking that
moment and whatever however thatfear is presenting for you, if
it is fear, maybe it's anger,maybe it's sadness, maybe it's
disappointment. You know, like,just taking a moment to be like,

(58:41):
okay. I'm I'm feeling this. I'mgonna let myself feel this. And
you'll feel it in your body passafter a while.
Like, there will be kind of a alightning that happens. And once
that does, then, like Skippy issaying, you can then ask the
question, like, okay. Now thatthe fear is gone, how can I what
is the most aligned choice forme to make from this place? Not

(59:02):
from my fear, but from a senseof centeredness.

Speaker 1 (59:05):
So I'd like to jump to the next topic, which is very
interrelated because most of thethings that not all, but most of
the things that raise our fearquotient in leadership actually
have to do with conflict. Mhmm.

Speaker 2 (59:19):
I

Speaker 1 (59:19):
don't wanna share something because I'm gonna get,
you know, screamed at by acolleague. I don't wanna share
something because I'm gonna lookstupid in public when it doesn't
succeed. I don't wanna sharesomething because I'm gonna get
threats from citizens or I'mgoing to get flamed on the
Internet. And so the reactioncan either be to scream and

(59:41):
shout and fight, which almostnever gets you the result you're
looking for.

Speaker 2 (59:45):
Tiger.

Speaker 1 (59:46):
Or to just not say, I mean, cut down question why
you're there. Are you spendingyour time as you should? Are you
effective? Are you any good atthis? Yeah.
And so you talk a lot aboutnonviolent communication,
conscious communication, the theidea of a carefrontation rather
than a confrontation. I want youto talk a bit about how somebody

(01:00:08):
can prepare intentionally for aconfrontation or carefrontation.
What are some of the the stepsof preparation, and what are
some of the best practices thatthey can use to have a better
than not shot of improving thediscourse and coming to a
workable conversation andoutcome?

Speaker 2 (01:00:31):
I think first and foremost, becoming aware of what
your unconscious patterning is.Like, what is your unconscious
response that you go to whenconflict arise? Do you go into
that fight kinda tiger mode? Doyou go more into freeze, deer in
the headlights? Do you go intofawning where you will over
pacify and placate to the otherperson's needs, or do you just

(01:00:52):
flee the the scenarioaltogether?
I think

Speaker 1 (01:00:54):
Many people will use more than 1 in different
scenarios.

Speaker 2 (01:00:57):
Right? But, usually, we have out of those are the 4
f's of the nervous system,fight, flight, freeze, or fawn.
We usually have one that we goto, and they are all strategies
that our biology uses to try tokeep us safe. If I fight with
this person, I can get on top ofthem before they get on top of
me. If I flee the situation, Idon't have to face the conflict.

(01:01:17):
I'll be safe. If I freeze, if Idon't move, if they don't see
me, I'll be safe. If I fawn tothem, if I placate and over
people, please, or overlycompliment them, then I'll be
safe. Right? So I think knowingwhich one is your kinda go to
one is is first and foremostwhere to go, and then heal it at
the root.
We think the external needs tobe different before we get our

(01:01:40):
needs met. It's really, reallyinnocent, and we all do it. It's
called outsourcing. But when youreally learn to go to the root
and ask yourself, Where do wherein my life did I potentially
pick up this nervous systemresponse? Who taught me that
this is the way to get safety?
Did I have parents that modeledlike, did they fight a lot? And

(01:02:01):
so I just naturally do itbecause that's all I was shown.
Or maybe you were a child thatyou had parents fight a lot and
so you would go hide and yourthing is to flee. That's your
nervous system response. Right?
Whatever your colleagues orwhoever this person that you're
conflict in, whatever they'rebringing up inside of you, that
is an invitation for you to getthe healing and transformation

(01:02:23):
that you need. It's not aboutthem. It really is not about
them, and we always think it is.And that is why, in my opinion,
politics is in such a, pardon myFrench, shit show that it's in
because people are just you,you, you, you, you, you. Blame,
blame, blame, blame, blame.
But we need to take this fingerthat we're pointing at other
people and, like, point itinside and be like, okay.

(01:02:43):
Interesting. This is bringing upsomething inside of me. Let me
heal this at the root, figureout what's going on, and then I
can approach this situation withthis person from a conscious
place and not from myunconscious conditioned wounded
child self. There's a lot ofkids running the show right now.

Speaker 1 (01:03:00):
In a talk that I do at conferences, I will quote the
great poet laureate Macklemorefrom one of his songs, City Down
Sleep, which I think the lyricis, if you wanna see change, put
your ones as in your finger,your ones in the air, and turn
your ones around because changestarts right there.

Speaker 2 (01:03:17):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:03:18):
And it's a recognition that taking radical
personal responsibility foreverything is the most empowered
thing.

Speaker 2 (01:03:26):
Not the sexiest thing, but, damn, it you get
your your power back the minuteyou take responsibility of how
you are participating in thedynamic with someone. Even if
someone is coming at you and youdid nothing, you still are
participating in some way,shape, or form. You attracted
this person in, not to punishyourself, but this person is

(01:03:47):
coming into your world. If youwanna take the conscious route
like we're taking here, theyhave come here, and whatever
they are eliciting inside ofyou, whatever they are
triggering inside of you, thatis an invitation for you to heal
the trigger at the root.

Speaker 1 (01:04:01):
Right. And when you say you've attracted them in for
that, the way I hear that withmaybe a little bit more of a
clinical mind is Mhmm. I have achoice.

Speaker 2 (01:04:10):
Mhmm.

Speaker 1 (01:04:10):
I have a choice how I respond to you in this
interview. I have a choice how Ifeel about this piece of art
behind us. I have a choice how Irespond to an angry public
comment, or to a colleague thatI don't like. I have a choice.
And I can either choose to be avictim to that, and make it
about them to blame them, and gohome.

(01:04:30):
And how that's gonna show up forme is I'm gonna ruminate, I'm
gonna be pissed off, I'm gonnabe turning over my head, it's
gonna affect my sleep, it'sgonna make me short with you.
It's going to harm me. Or I canchoose to take the empowered
position, which is to say, man,I might not like this. I don't
agree with this. I don't thinkthis should even happen, but

(01:04:52):
what can I learn from it?
What can this show me of what Ican shift or change, how I can
level or how I can evolve? Andeven if I don't get the outcome
that I want the next time, Iwill know I've done my level
best, and I will sleep better, Iwill love better, and I will
lead better.

Speaker 2 (01:05:08):
That's right. And I just wanna name here that there
are people that are victims toterrible things that happen in
the world. The word victim rightnow in our culture, it's held
with a lot of negativeconnotation. And what we're
talking about here is not beinga victim to the situation at

(01:05:28):
hand. We have power in thatchoice.
And the minute we choose toconsciously participate in our
evolution and use everythingthat's happening in service for
our growth and really notlooking at life as this is
happening to me versus this ishappening for me. I mean, you
can just feel it even justsaying that. When you're wearing

(01:05:50):
the lens, like, this ishappening to me right now. You
it's, like, so defeating. Butwhen you put on the glasses
okay.
This kinda sucks right now. Thisis uncomfortable. But, man, this
is happening for me right now.What might that be?

Speaker 1 (01:06:03):
I recorded another podcast recently with Ashley
Gremel, which may or may nothave been out yet, but she
talked about how she's beenraped twice. There's no part of
that experience that was herfault, or her doing or her
choice or that should have everhappened, she said, like, from

(01:06:25):
the moment that I could say,this is what happened, this is
where we are, and share thatwith others, it was so
empowering to herself and othersYeah. That it normalized it. And
she said, you know, while shewould never wish it on anyone or
even on herself, she's learned alot, and she's grown and become
a better person because of that.

Speaker 2 (01:06:46):
Yeah. Not everyone's gonna be ready for that
perspective, and that's reallyokay. Everyone's at a different
place in their journey.

Speaker 1 (01:06:52):
But my point is that to accept something is not to
agree with it. Yeah. To acceptsomething is not to think that
it should have happened. It'sjust to recognize that the only
thing you have to work with iswhat is. And so when we say the
word victim, victim is not,like, the act.

(01:07:12):
It's your orientation to it.

Speaker 2 (01:07:13):
Mhmm. Mhmm. Yeah. And I'm a big student of Caroline
Miss, who is an incredible she'sbeen in the personal development
game before personal developmentwas a thing. And she talks about
that there's 4 primaryarchetypes or characteristics
inside every single human nomatter what their experience is.
And one of those core archetypesis that there is a victim.

(01:07:37):
There's a there's an innervictim inside all of us.

Speaker 1 (01:07:39):
Yeah. That part that's in all of us. Okay. So
you've kind of cleared whateveris going on inside. You've
recognized what the source ofyour trigger is.

Speaker 2 (01:07:49):
Mhmm.

Speaker 1 (01:07:50):
And so now you are energetically ready to have a
carefrontation.

Speaker 2 (01:07:53):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:07:54):
What are some of the best practices? Like, what do I
say? How do I prepare?

Speaker 2 (01:07:59):
Nonviolent Communication is an incredible
resource. They have a free PDFon their website if you wanna
check them out, and theframework essentially is coming
into a conversation with someonethat you're in conflict with.
You're always using ownershiplanguage. Because the minute you
go, you made me feel this way,you did this, you didn't do
that, the other person is gonnaput their guard up and go into

(01:08:23):
defense mode automatically. Butwhen you say, hey.
I felt this way when this wentdown. This is how this made me
feel. When you really just shareyour authentic experience and
you share, you know, I've I feltreally frustrated by what you
said. I feel really sad thatthis is how our dynamic is right
now. Whatever the feeling is,really expressing it through

(01:08:44):
ownership language is really,really important and really,
really powerful because thenyou're modeling to other people
for them to do the same as well.

Speaker 1 (01:08:53):
The

Speaker 2 (01:08:53):
it's it's so unconscious in our culture.
Like, you made me feel this way.Nobody can make you feel a
certain way. They can elicit anemotion that's inside of you,
but that's you. You they can'tmake you feel any way without
your consent.
So really taking ownershiplanguage and then making a
loving request, you know, nexttime when this happens and

(01:09:15):
asking permission. Would you bewilling to do this next time
this happens? And that way, youstart enrolling the other person
in coming up with a solution sothey feel a part of it versus
you are coming at them demandingsomething of them because nobody
likes to be told what to do.

Speaker 1 (01:09:32):
So and to that end, how do you initiate the
conversation?

Speaker 2 (01:09:35):
I usually when I have to have a hard conversation with
you or with a friend, I feelreally uncomfortable and
vulnerable, and I just namethat. And you see that good
public speakers, if they'refeeling nervous, they just name
it. They're like, oh, I'mfeeling some nerves right now.
And I'll say that. I'll say, Idon't have a very eloquent way
of saying this right now, and Ifeel really uncomfortable, and I

(01:09:56):
feel really cringey around thisright now, but I know it's
important for me to talk to youabout this for the sake of our
relationship.
And so I'll just open with thata lot of the time.

Speaker 1 (01:10:07):
But you'll also ask me if I'm available.

Speaker 2 (01:10:09):
Yeah. Because if you're not available, there's it
doesn't matter what howamazingly I talk to you. If
you're shut down or if you'renot in a space to really hear
it, it's not gonna work.

Speaker 1 (01:10:19):
So I just wanna just highlight that, which is if you
wanna have a conversation withsomeone, the first step is to
open and ask for theconversation, but be willing to
hear a no. Yeah. As if yousimply if you use ownership
language, but you accostsomebody in the hallway and
start telling them yourownership language

Speaker 2 (01:10:37):
I feel this way. They're gonna be like, I don't
care who you feel.

Speaker 1 (01:10:40):
I mean, this person's crazy. I'm not here for this.
And

Speaker 2 (01:10:43):
overall So set the scene. Like, set the
environment. Make it a make it adate. Like, be conscious about
it. Like, hey.
I got something I wanna run byyou. It'll take 20 minutes, or
it's it's like this might be alonger conversation. Do you have
some time later today ortomorrow or whenever?

Speaker 1 (01:10:58):
Yeah. So opening, asking permission

Speaker 2 (01:11:02):
Mhmm.

Speaker 1 (01:11:02):
Preparing so you know what you want to say and you
know going in, how you've beenfeeling.

Speaker 2 (01:11:08):
That's where you and I are different. I'm really a on
the on the fly kinda girl. Yes.Prepare, but also, like, speak
from your heart. Just bevulnerable.
Be in your heart when you'retalking to someone. And I wanna
I wanna differentiate that a lotof the time when I say be in
your loving or be in your heartwith someone, a lot of people
think that that means be ooeygooey, be mushy, be soft, but

(01:11:29):
also love can come really directand fiery. Sometimes if someone
crosses a boundary with me thatdoes not feel good and they've
crossed it multiple times, like,I'm gonna be loving, but I'm
gonna be direct. I'll be like,hey. I asked this, and you
didn't do it again.

Speaker 1 (01:11:46):
When you say in the heart, you mean authentic, true,
clear. Yeah. Yes. The reason I'mI'm saying preparation is
because if you're even having ifyou're even listening to this,
you're in some form of fearMhmm. About the conversation.
And the first thing that goes isour memory. And so we have spent

(01:12:07):
all this time thinking about it,but if we don't do preparation
for many, not for all, you'regonna consciously ask for this
conversation. You're gonna sitdown, and you're gonna go blank.

Speaker 2 (01:12:19):
And don't be afraid to use your notes. Like, be an
authentic person in that moment.Be like, you know what? Like,
this is this is important to me.This our relationship matters.
I've written down some thoughts,and it might look silly and but
I don't care. What's moreimportant to me is that I really
speak what

Speaker 1 (01:12:34):
You can own

Speaker 2 (01:12:34):
it. What I want. Own it. Yeah. Don't hide and be
like, I have to be perfectlyrehearsed and blah blah blah.

Speaker 1 (01:12:40):
Whether that system for you is, like, my brain is
just great at this, like Jamie,or you have more need for aids
like me, you are wanting tothink about ahead of time and
prepare to be able to accuratelyfrom the heart correctly share
how you've been feeling, thebehaviors that you've noticed

(01:13:01):
that have led for that, and whatyour desired changes are. And
and I'm reflecting what I heardfrom you. You're also open and
willing to truly listen, tochange your perspective, and to
hear those things from the otherperson, and to seek some form of
mutual resolution through theopen exchange of those ideas.

Speaker 2 (01:13:23):
It's the best you can do. It's really the best you can
do.

Speaker 1 (01:13:26):
And, also, to detach from the outcome. Like, be
really invested in in theconversation, but recognize that
you alone cannot solve this.Mhmm. And it may or may not go
as you planned or well at all,and that's okay. All you can do
is show up the best you can.

Speaker 2 (01:13:42):
Let's talk about that for a second. We we say it a lot
in our work, being highlyinvolved in whatever it is that
you're involved in, but lowlyattached to the outcome. It's
really an incredible way tolive, highly engaged with
whatever's coming, but lowlyattached to the results. And I
really think you can actuallyauthentically be unattached if

(01:14:03):
you are holding a presence ofunconditional love and safety
inside yourself. Because if youdon't lose you, then you're
good.
You're free. Like, I'm gonnalove myself. I'm gonna be okay
regardless of what goes down inthis conversation. That allows
that just gives your whole beingpermission to be really highly

(01:14:23):
involved and unattached to whathappens.

Speaker 1 (01:14:26):
Okay. So I want to shift into the experience of
being a partner of a publicservant. We When we started
dating, I was on city council, Iwas in elected office, and
you've been along with me inthis journey into coaching and

(01:14:46):
supporting others in the publicspace, but also still being
involved through state boards,commissions, non profit boards,
and I think it would bebeneficial for the listener to
start to have some sense of whatthis might actually be like for
their spouse, significant other,boyfriend, girlfriend, or
otherwise. Mhmm. Can you speak alittle bit to what it's like to

(01:15:08):
be the partner of a publicservant?

Speaker 2 (01:15:11):
Well, I don't have a ton of experience in it since
we've had 2 years together inthat space. I think that's
enough to have some insight.

Speaker 1 (01:15:20):
You lived through a campaign.

Speaker 2 (01:15:23):
Yeah. I did. And I get really invested. You know? I
would tune in to watch thestream of the council meetings
to watch you and also to, like,see where you guys were on the
agenda to know if you'd be homein time for dinner or not.

Speaker 1 (01:15:37):
Generally not.

Speaker 2 (01:15:38):
Generally not. And I think I think for any couples,
if either of you are in placesof leadership or just one of you
are, I think it's reallyimportant to simultaneously
learn how to be there for yourpartner, really support them

(01:16:01):
while also maintaining yourautonomy. I think learning the
skill of holding both of thoseroles, like I am my own
autonomous individual, but I'malso here for you, I think is
really healthy. Because I thinkif you're too much on one side
or the other, if you're liketotally separate from the
process, it feels justinauthentic. It feels like

(01:16:23):
there's a side of you that I'mnot, like, really embracing.
And then if I'm too much in thecampaign or too much in what
you're doing, I think and thisis this kinda happens all
unfortunately, a lot for women.They lose their own sense of
identity. And enmesh. Theyenmesh. And we ain't here to
enmesh.
We're here to be 2 individual,autonomous, whole individual

(01:16:46):
beings that when we engage inour individual mission or our
shared mission, it's thisexperience of both of us
supporting one another and andraising the bar together. So I
shared with you before, I thinkif you do run again, that I'll
probably be a little moreinvolved in the campaign because

(01:17:08):
I think how you do anything ishow you do everything. And then
I think it's really empoweringand important and to be really
transparent with people thatyou're asking for a vote for
them to see who you really arebehind the the leadership role.
And I think who you do lifewith, because I think that's the

(01:17:29):
the most telling thing

Speaker 1 (01:17:30):
about you. Best indicator of your decision
making?

Speaker 2 (01:17:33):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:17:34):
But what was it like? What was it like to have people
come up and ask about me orMhmm. To have somebody complain
about a policy to you or to reada nasty op ed in the paper or to
have me, you know, not come homefrom meetings until 11 at night,

(01:17:57):
multiple days a week.

Speaker 2 (01:17:59):
At first, I think I got into a lot of inner, like,
inside defense where I felt likeI had to defend you. And I also
think you are who you spend themost time with. So naturally
people would put me and you asif our belief structures are
identical, and we have a lot ofcommon and same beliefs and

(01:18:21):
values. That's why we're inpartnership together. But I
think if people don't like you,they they start to not like me
too.
That's kind of a hard pill toswallow because I am a people
pleaser. I'm a recovering one.And but there but then there
becomes a point where it's like,you're my man. Like, I got you.
I'm gonna support you.
And I and regardless if ifyou're my man or not, I really

(01:18:44):
believe in your heart and yourintegrity, and I I would vote
for you even if you weren't mypartner. Right? So, yeah, it can
be challenging to know what'smine, what's yours, what's not,
any of those things.

Speaker 1 (01:18:57):
If we were to do it again, if we were gonna run
again

Speaker 2 (01:19:00):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:19:00):
What would you do to support yourself Mhmm. To better
support your autonomy, but alsoto better support your emotional
self to deal with the brunt ofthose incoming attacks?

Speaker 2 (01:19:15):
Mhmm. I think you have a pretty healthy approach
to the haters and the attacks,which is to not really give it
much energy. We listen to it. Weacknowledge it. People have
something to say.
But at the end of the day, weall trigger each other. We're
all triggering each other allthe time. It's what you do with
it that, really is supportive.So I probably, honestly, I would

(01:19:39):
probably use it as a vehicle forme to just even go deeper into
my own inner work. And everytime I get triggered and just,
like, really practice what Ipreach a lot, like, really,
really do my own inner workaround it.
And, also, there comes a part inthe personal development journey
when telling someone to justkinda f off is, like, really
appropriate. Like, that's great.I I hear you. You're allowed to

(01:20:03):
have an opinion, but you're notallowed to

Speaker 1 (01:20:06):
You can draw a boundary.

Speaker 2 (01:20:07):
Yeah. You're not allowed to be mean to me. Yeah.
GTFO.

Speaker 1 (01:20:12):
Yeah. Yeah. Or just to call them out into the
awareness of that behavior. I'veexperienced several times where
people were acting in that waythat was hurting, say, a member
of my campaign staff.

Speaker 2 (01:20:21):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:20:21):
And I reached out to let them know and came to find
out that they had no idea that'show that were impacting and that
they were apologetic and sharedtheir story. And so sometimes
it's about just lovingly holdingup a mirror Mhmm. To somebody so
they can do that.

Speaker 2 (01:20:36):
I'd probably do that a little bit more. I think my
tendency is to shrink and tohide from conflict. I don't
wanna go to the counter of thatand fight with conflict, but I
think finding a happy medium ofof of being in the game with it
and not not being afraid ofbeing, an active participant in
a campaign.

Speaker 1 (01:20:56):
So the last piece that I wanna touch on here is
you are an incredibly masterfulpartner in supporting me Nice.
When I'm having a tough dayYeah. When I'm bringing
something home from the office,so to speak. Mhmm. And I wonder
if you could share some of thethings that you do to show up in
that way.

Speaker 2 (01:21:14):
Mhmm. Read the room. Read the room. If if you a lot
of the time, I have, you know, alist of things that I need from
you or I need to run by you or Ineed your help with after being
away from each other for aworkday. And I gotta check-in
again, like, is this personavailable to hear what I'm

(01:21:35):
saying right now?
And if you're not, I'm not goingto start something that's going
to end in you being hangry.Right. Most of the time we're
most of the time we're justhangry. Most of the time you and
I just need food and all of ourproblems get solved. So reading
the room, waiting for the momentto to, engage.

(01:21:59):
But if it's pressing, like, Idon't wanna just fawn and be
like, oh, he's in a bad mood.I'll just, you know, not do
this. I'll be like, I'llacknowledge. I'll just be like,
hey. I'm noticing you're, like,tired right now.
I'm noticing you're frustrated.I'm noticing you're you got some
energy going on, and I'm herefor you, and I love you. And I
still need you to show up to ourlife right now as well. There's

(01:22:21):
some time pressing issues that Igotta get handled right here and
now. It's important for allpartnerships, whether one is in
a leadership position or not, isto to call each other forward.
And, it's all an art, my love.It's all an art of, like, being
able to feel where you're at,gauge what I think you can or

(01:22:45):
cannot handle, and also honor myneeds and honor what I need and
what our partnership needs. Andand treating our partnership
like a third entity, I think, isreally powerful too. It's like
there's you, there's me, butthen there's our relationship.
It's like, what does therelationship need right now?
And we will, need right now?

Speaker 1 (01:23:00):
And we will we will get into those moments. I mean,
when we were, say, traveling inIndonesia, and I was having the
time of my life, and werealized, oh, shit. Jamie

Speaker 2 (01:23:09):
is not.

Speaker 1 (01:23:10):
She's completely overwhelmed by this and shutting
down in a panic state.Completely overwhelmed by this
and shutting down in a panicstate. There's a moment of, in
my head, wanting to be selfish,wanting my trip, wanting to go
where I wanna go. There's thepart of me that wants to be
generous and benevolent that's,like, we'll give Jamie what she
wants, and then there's the 3rdpart of me that realizes, oh,
you're having an argument in acompetition between 2 people for

(01:23:31):
who gets their needs met.Actually, this isn't about
either of those.
There's no winner or loser. Thisis about family first.

Speaker 2 (01:23:38):
Family first.

Speaker 1 (01:23:39):
What's best for the unit? Let's do that. And I think
in high stress situations,coming back to that is really
beautiful, and ultimately it iswhat happens within the home
that I think is the greatestgrounding and anchor for any
potentiality of any publicservant, and getting what's
right between the walls of thehouse first, is arguably the

(01:24:02):
best thing you can do to setyourself up for success.

Speaker 2 (01:24:05):
Yeah. And a lot of challenges we hear of where
people's leadership journeyisn't going well. It's because
of the toll that it's taking onthe family, and they and family
takes a back seat.

Speaker 1 (01:24:17):
Yes. It goes in both directions.

Speaker 2 (01:24:19):
Right. So what would what would happen if you really
did put family first and gave asmuch weight to that as much as
your leadership position andvice versa, they really start to
feed and serve one anotherversus going into this black or
white thinking of like, I canonly if I do leadership, then
that's gonna mean my family lifecomes at a cost. Or if I put my

(01:24:40):
family first, I can't show up inmy leadership position. There is
a world where both can coexistbeautifully and they can start
to feed each other, which isreally where you want a cohesive
life. You know, this whole worklife balance thing, I really
don't like it.
I really like the idea of worklife harmony where all of them
are weaving and workingtogether. I think that's a

(01:25:00):
really powerful reframe becausewe want leaders to feel
resourced at home, and we wantthe family to feel resourced
too. It's all it's all workingtogether.

Speaker 1 (01:25:11):
Yeah. It reminds me that while time is our most
valuable nonrenewable resource,it is a scarce resource. The way
we spend it is not scarce. Wecan choose to use our time in
ways that amplify the experienceand the agency of each moment or
subtract from that. And so wedon't have to choose family or

(01:25:35):
work.
We can act in ways where we'regetting more out of each moment
with each of those and thatthey're reinforcing and
amplifying each other, and eachare better for the opposing one.

Speaker 2 (01:25:46):
That's part of our secret sauce as well that I'm
sure we'll coach and trainpeople with in the future. I
think we have a shared mission,and being partners that are
choosing to do life personallyand professionally together. It
could be really easy to not wantto do professional things

(01:26:10):
because it might hurt therelationship. But I think you
and I are working and finding areally beautiful way of having
them feed each other.

Speaker 1 (01:26:19):
Yeah. Mhmm. I think that's as beautiful as anywhere
to start to wrap up. I am sograteful for you. My life would
be immeasurably different andworse without you.
This podcast wouldn't existwithout you and not just the one
that you're on, but having youas a support system in my life
really makes all of thispossible. And I'm just so

(01:26:42):
grateful to you for that.

Speaker 2 (01:26:43):
I love you. Thank you. I love

Speaker 1 (01:26:45):
you. Thank you for hanging in there.

Speaker 2 (01:26:46):
The Josh Groban song just came on. You raise me up so
I can stand on mountains.

Speaker 1 (01:26:53):
He's gonna go clean herby for us on the mission.

Speaker 2 (01:26:56):
Raise me

Speaker 1 (01:26:59):
up. So before we go, the last question that I always
ask each guest, which is ourlisteners are not passive
observers. They are the peoplein the arena. They're the ones
that are making the change.

Speaker 2 (01:27:10):
Bless you.

Speaker 1 (01:27:11):
And if you could leave them with just one thing,
one quote, one saying, oneperspective, one practice, one
thing and one thing alone thatthey could apply to be the
greatest vector to heal ourpolitics starting now, what
would you leave them with?

Speaker 2 (01:27:27):
Expanding your emotional range and feeling your
feelings is not a luxury. Itreally is a necessity for you to
integrate and embody and reallylead from your most whole
authentic worthy self.

Speaker 1 (01:27:40):
Mhmm. And where can people find you if they need a
coach, if they need a leadinglady container to get into, if
they just wanna follow you onthe socials, anything you wanna
share?

Speaker 2 (01:27:51):
Jamie Butemeyer is my Instagram handle and website,
jamiebutemeyer.com.Jamiebutemeyer.com. Jamie, b as
in boy, u t e, m as in Mary, e ye r. And I have a 6 month
signature program. It's calledthe Leading Lady, and I have an

(01:28:11):
incredible just community ofheart centered mission driven
folks in my world.
And community really is amissing ingredient in a lot of
people's success journeys. Andso finding groups, finding
communities that you feel deeplyheld and seen by, it is a game
changer.

Speaker 1 (01:28:29):
Well, thank you so much, my love. I hope you have a
beautiful evening. I think wehave a dinner ahead of us. Bye
for now. Thank you so much forjoining us today.
If you wanna put what you'veheard here today into practice,
sign up for our newsletter, theleader's handbook, where each
month you'll receive just oneemail with a curated selection

(01:28:53):
of the most useful tools andpractices discussed on this
podcast today and over thecourse of the last month,
delivered in simple how toworksheets, videos, and audio
guides. So you and your teamscan try and test these out in
your own life and see what bestserves you. And lastly, if you
wanna be a vector for healingour politics, if you wanna do

(01:29:15):
your part, take out your phoneright now and share this podcast
with 5 colleagues you careabout. Send a simple text, drop
a line, and leave the ball intheir court because the truth is
the more those around you dotheir work, the better it will
show up in your life, in yourcommunity, and in your world.

(01:29:37):
Have a beautiful day.
The Healing Our Politics podcastis brought to you by the Elected
Leaders Collective, the firstleading and most highly
recognized name in mentalhealth, well-being, and
performance coaching for electedleaders and public servants

(01:29:59):
designed specifically for you.Now don't be fooled by the name.
The Elected Leaders Collectiveis not just for elected leaders,
It is for all public servants,staffers, volunteers,
government, nonprofit, wholeorganizations. This is for you.
If you are filled with passionfor improving your community and

(01:30:21):
world but are tired as I am ofthe anger stress and vitriol, if
you find yourself banging yourhead against that same wall,
struggling with the incomingcriticism and threats, arguing
with colleagues who are supposedto be on your team and
questioning if it's even worthit anymore than the elected
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(01:30:44):
With the elected leaderscollective, you will learn to
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and kindness necessary torespond to threats, improve

(01:31:06):
challenging relationships,deescalate conflict, and bring
people in your communitytogether to solve real problems
and get shit done. You'll reducestress, anxiety, and overwhelm
and become a more effectiveleader while having time for
your family, yourself, yourhealth, and your wealth,

(01:31:27):
sleeping well at night, andshowing others they can too. Now
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