October 29, 2025 • 42 mins
In this episode of the Heallist Podcast, Vickie Dickson, known as the Business Whisperer and host of the Bodygraph.com Podcast, delve into the transformative world of Human Design. Vickie shares her insights on how Human Design can empower individuals in their personal and professional lives, dispelling common misconceptions and emphasizing the importance of understanding one's unique design.
The conversation covers the basics of Human Design, the significance of profiles, the interplay between defined and undefined centers, and how this knowledge can lead to greater self-acceptance and healing. Vicki also discusses the relationship between Human Design and astrology, the impact of transits on personal transformation, and how to effectively integrate Human Design into business strategies. This concludes with practical advice on recognizing oneself and embracing one's unique gifts.
Key takeaways:
- Human Design combines elements of various modalities like astrology and the chakra system.
- Your Human Design is based on your birth information and does not change over time.
- Human Design provides a path of least resistance rather than dictating what you can or cannot do.
- Understanding your profile in Human Design can reveal your role in life and business.
- Defined and undefined centers in your chart indicate where you broadcast energy and where you absorb it from others.
- Human Design can be used to navigate personal transformations and healing journeys.
- It's important to find a Human Design reader who resonates with you for effective integration of the information.
- Human Design can help tailor business strategies to individual energy types and preferences.
- Recognition is crucial for Projectors, as it fuels their energy and purpose.
- Self-acceptance is a key aspect of healing, and Human Design can facilitate this process.
Visit www.vickiedickson.com to get your free personalized Human Design chart.
Visit Heallist.com - your portal to holistic healing, connecting seekers and thousands of practitioners across the globe.
Follow @heal_list on Instagram.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Yuli (00:00):
Welcome to the Heallist Podcast, where we unpack the
many layers of holistic health.
I'm Yuli, founder of Heallist,your portal to holistic healers
worldwide.
Now let's go deep.
Hello, dear friends, andwelcome to the Heallist Podcast.
Today we're unpacking humandesign with Vickie Dickson,
(00:21):
known as the Business Whisperer,with 30 years of
entrepreneurial experience.
She's built several businessesand now using human design to
help people understand thebasics and also improve their
businesses using some of thosehuman design techniques and
principles.
And I'm just super excited tohave you here with us today and
(00:42):
really unpack one of thosemysterious modalities that I'm
personally played with a littlebit, but I would love to learn
more.
And I'm sure some of ourlisteners could be curious as
well.
How can they utilize thisamazing tool for their life, for
their business, for theirhealth?
So welcome to the podcast.
And I'd like to set intentionfor each episode.
And for this one, I really wantto help empower people with
(01:05):
this amazing tool that I knowcan be life-changing.
So thank you, Vickie, for beinghere with us.
Thank you for having me.
It's the best life-changingtool on the planet, in my
opinion.
Amazing.
So I can't wait to dive intodetails.
But first of all, I'm curiousto start with some of the
misconceptions that you'reseeing around what human design
(01:28):
is, what it does, maybedifferent like limiting beliefs
that people have around it.
And maybe even define it,because some of our listeners
might not even be familiar withwhat it really means, or maybe
have a wrong idea about it.
Vickie (01:41):
My very favorite description of what human design
is is that if the chakrasystem, the I Ching, astrology,
and the Jewish Kabbalah had ababy, it would be human design.
Because it makes it accessibleto most of us who have had these
healing modalities in our livesfor some time.
It's based on your birthinformation.
So it's not, it's notsubjective.
(02:03):
It's something that's fact.
It's never going to change.
That's one of the questions Iget a lot.
Like, will my human designchange the more deconditioning
or healing work I do?
And no, your human design isalways your human design.
Some of the things that I get alittle frustrated with, I'm a
manifesting generator, sofrustration is something that
happens in my life.
And some of the things that Iget frustrated with are people
thinking that their human designdictates whether they can do
(02:26):
something or not.
Should I have a group coachingprogram because I'm a projector?
Should I have a, you know, allof these things.
Your human design doesn't tellyou what you can do.
It tells you how to do what youdo.
It gives you your path of leastresistance.
You can do anything you want todo.
We all have all of the design.
It's just which parts are yougoing to activate and use for
(02:48):
the particular work that you'redoing.
And then the other bigfrustration, I would say there's
really only two, but the otherone is using your human design
as a label or an excuse, whichis kind of the same thing.
I can't do that because I'm aprojector.
I can't do this because I'mthis.
I can't do that.
And on and on it goes.
And human design is so muchmore than your type.
(03:09):
One of the questions I askedyou when we started was what's
your profile?
Those two little numbers.
It means so much in yourdesign.
We want to look at all of theareas and see the nuances
together.
And I think that that's oftenmissed in this cookie cutter
chat GPT content saturationplace that we live in right now.
Yuli (03:27):
So let's talk about some of those um things that you
mentioned, just to again helpour listeners who might not be
familiar with some of the basicsof it, right?
So there's the profiles, thereare the general, there's
numbers.
If you can give us also alittle bit of a background, like
where did it come from?
Where is this?
How was this system created?
Vickie (03:47):
Sure.
So this system was a divinedownload, shall we say?
Uh, to a Canadian, actually.
I'm Canadian as well, about twoand a half hours from where I
live.
And Ra Uru Hu is what he hadchanged his name to once the
human design system wasdownloaded.
It's taken from your birthinformation.
So you're going to want to haveyour birthday and place and
(04:08):
time because we want to seewhere the planets were at the
time of your birth.
That's a lot about how humandesign works.
It highlights different gates,which are taken from the I
Ching.
So that's where you see thenumbers on your chart.
Human design has really weirdwords.
There's so many weird words toget a hold of.
I know when I was firstintroduced to it, probably it
(04:29):
came into my field for aboutfour years before finally I had
some horrific experiences happenthat led me to human design to
seriously study human design.
But before then, it was justthere was so much to get a hold
of.
The chart looks weird, thenumbers are weird, the words are
weird, all of the things.
So the basics are your type andstrategy.
So your type is going to be amanifesting generator, a
(04:52):
generator, a projector, amanifester, or a reflector.
And then there are 12 differentprofiles.
Your profile really tells youthe role that you play in the
movie of your life.
It is the easiest thing and thehardest thing to embody.
Well, no, we discovered youweren't.
So I am a two-four.
Second lines need time tohermit away.
(05:12):
So what do you think the thingwas that I was told was wrong
with me for my whole life?
You're too quiet.
You're snotty.
You need too much time alone.
Come be with the people.
So it's natural for me to fallinto this second line, we call
it, but it's also really hard.
So that's a big deconditioningarea for people.
Those two numbers that showyour profile, you're gonna find
a lot of healing work that youcan do there.
(05:34):
And then when you can reallystep into that, it changes
everything.
I think even if you only usedyour type and strategy in your
profile for the rest of yourlife, you would experience so
much more ease in your life.
Yuli (05:47):
Absolutely.
And I I couldn't agree morewith you.
Once I I know actually verylittle about human design, but
once I discovered, um, I thinkone of my strategies is waiting
for invitation.
And that was a good dangerbecause for someone who's built
businesses and was kind offorced to, you know, as a
business owner, you're alwaysthe seller, right?
You have to market, you have tosell.
(06:08):
And it was always reallychallenging for me.
And I thought, well, it'sbecause maybe I didn't go to
business school or I wasn'ttrained in sales and all those
things.
And I really worked hard.
And a lot of it was using likethe hustle culture, right?
Or using the power.
And once I realized like thisis actually something to do with
my type, and resonated so much,and it completely changed my
(06:31):
business strategy and how Iapproach things and really
reduced a lot of the frustrationwith myself, and maybe uh even
boosted my self-confidence, justknowing that there's a
different way, maybe to do salesthat is more suitable for my
type.
So it was really for me, I canattest.
(06:51):
It was um it was reallylife-changing, even just knowing
that.
Vickie (06:55):
Especially as a projector, I think I I have so
many projectors in my world, andI think, oh my gosh, to find
out that you're a projector mustbe so many pieces must click
for you when you hear that andyou understand what it means.
Yuli (07:07):
Right, right.
And then even looking at thepicture when I did my chart and
just seeing that I only have thefirst the top three centers lit
up and everything else isbasically wide open.
Um, it really it it clicked alot of things, like you said.
So, can I unpack that a littlebit with you?
Yes, would that be helpful?
(07:28):
Let's choose me as an example.
I love that.
Vickie (07:31):
Sure.
Or for even for any of yourlisteners, when you're looking
at the whiteness or the areas inyour chart that are not colored
in, you're looking at whatyou're breathing in from the
field.
So lots of times in humandesign circles, we will hear
that, or we will say that that'swhere it's your not-self, which
it is, it's your not-self.
It's not who it's who you'renot here to be, but it's who you
(07:52):
think you are.
And that where you can amplifythe energies of others.
And we always look at it as abad thing.
But those are actually whereyour lessons are held, in that
whiteness, in that openness.
So when we look at your design,Yuli, we see more openness than
definition.
The areas that are colored inare considered defined.
When you're where you'redefined, that's where you're
(08:12):
broadcasting out.
And where you're undefined,that's where you're breathing
in.
So those undefined areas arelike light switches that are
off.
And when you're in arelationship with someone in
aura with someone who has someof that definition, the light
switch goes on.
So you have this variableenergy there.
And for you, probably you canpush through when you're with
(08:32):
certain people and you can feellike, wow, I can just do all of
the things.
And then you get away from themand you're like, oh my gosh,
I'm exhausted.
What just happened to me?
And it's because you amplifiedthose energies.
But your challenge is one ofyour challenges is to be really
wise about the use of energy andhow precious it is as a
projector.
Yuli (08:50):
Yeah.
Vickie (08:50):
So I think rather than looking at our openness as like
something we don't have, it'sactually really incredible
gifts, especially in yourbusiness, to use your openness.
Yuli (08:59):
I love that.
I love that perspective.
Yeah, it's definitely, I think,a big piece of human design,
right?
To figure out how you work withthe parts are defined versus
not defined, which I feel likeit's in general in our life.
Yes.
It's something, anyone on thehealing path, right?
It's always this kind of um,the things that I know I have.
(09:23):
This is part of my personality,DNA, however you want to call
it.
And those are the parts thatcan be transformed and that are
more fluid.
I find it really fascinatingthat actually helps you define
that.
Vickie (09:38):
And when you think about the things, the areas that are
defined in your human design, wetend to think that we are only
conditioned in our openness.
But we have different kinds ofconditioning.
So the areas where you are,like you have a lot of mental
definition, you have a lot ofwanting to speak your mind in
your particular design.
You have really weird insightsthat nobody else can understand.
(09:59):
And so much individuality.
And those are probably thethings that people told you were
just too much.
That's that's way too much.
Too weird.
We can't wrap our minds aroundthat.
No, keep that to yourself.
And where you're open, that'swhere you kind of internalize
that I'm not enough.
I don't have energy here.
I don't have like for you, youhave an undefined G center, the
(10:21):
diamond shape in the middle ofyour chart.
So oftentimes it can be reallywondering like, what direction
am I going?
Who am I really?
Like all these differentidentity shifts, geographical
sensitivity.
But oh my gosh, to help someoneelse with their direction in
life, you've got it in spades.
You can just coach them likenobody's business.
But now it's always harder forourselves.
Yuli (10:42):
Yeah, no, it makes so much sense.
And definitely, I think this iswhy it took me so many years to
come to this place that I speakmy mind and I have a podcast.
Yeah.
Because I feel like finally I'mcomfortable sharing some of
those weird woo ideas, whateveryou want to call them, right?
And it's just it feels likehome, but it took a lot of work
(11:04):
to be comfortable with thisweirdness.
And I'm sure a lot of healers,a lot of people on the healing
path who are listening to thatcan relate to that.
It's uh a big part of ourjourney is to accept those parts
that by society often definedand all kinds of labels.
So thank you for um definingthat very, very nicely.
(11:25):
So you mentioned birth chartand and planets, and I'm sure
it's a question that you getasked a lot.
How is it different fromastrology?
And I I actually studiedastrology, so I know a little
bit about it, a little bit aboutthe science of it, but I'm
curious, are those two related?
Um, and if so, what are some ofthe similarities or
(11:46):
differences?
Vickie (11:48):
Sure.
So I know just enough aboutastrology to make me dangerous,
and I am so drawn to it.
I want to learn it so much.
But it's it's I find it so muchmore complicated.
And human design is complicatedtoo when we first look at it.
And maybe it's because it's myfirst love that I'm like, okay,
I'm I'm in the role of this.
Astrology, I feel like has alot more moving parts.
I could be just making that up,but it that's what it feels
(12:08):
like to me.
The planets are the same.
No matter if you're looking atastrology or human design, those
planetary things are going tobe the same.
So Mercury is always going tobe the planet of communication.
Your conscious sun is gonna bein human design, it's about 70%
of who you are.
In astrology, I believe it'swho you are, I think.
Your sun planet, yeah.
Um, so so yeah, the planets aregonna be the same as astrology.
(12:31):
Those astrological placementsare gonna be really important in
your human design chart.
Yuli (12:36):
But one thing astrology has that you mentioned is that
complexity is um through themovement of the planets and the
transits and and um um, and thatadds a whole other layer,
right?
That also will then explainsome of the changes and the
transformations.
So you mentioned earlier onthat human design, like a lot of
(12:58):
people kind of ask for thisquestion what happens if a
person transforms or steps on ahealing path and changes?
So I wonder how does it work inhuman design?
Because I understand inastrology through transits, and
I'm curious how human designtackles those transformations.
Vickie (13:18):
So there are the planets are transiting the same as
they're transiting in astrology,they're transiting in human
design.
So we see them move throughdifferent pieces of your design.
Right now, for instance, thesun and earth that's transiting
is gates.
We look at them as gates, gates63 and 64 are transiting right
now.
It's a lot of mental pressure.
The founder of human designalways called this headache
(13:39):
weather.
I woke up yesterday, the firstday of the transit, with a
headache.
And I rarely get headaches.
Maybe three days a year I wouldget a headache.
But a lot of people areexperiencing this mental
pressure.
So we look at the planets thatare transiting the gate numbers
in human design.
We also look at the bigplanetary transits, like what
astrology does Saturn return,second Saturn return, third
(14:00):
Saturn return.
Chiron return is big for thewomen that I work with because I
work with women at midlife, andthat's our wounded healer.
So we have this massivetransformation.
We have the Uranus oppositionaround 40, 45, something like
that, where we've thought foryears these are midlife crisis,
but it's just that we're more onour healing path.
So through thesetransformations that we go
(14:22):
through, it doesn't change yourdesign.
Same as in astrology.
Your astrology is always goingto be your astrology, but you're
gonna experience these transitsthrough life.
You're gonna do your healingwork, hopefully, go through all
of these things that we gothrough, these lessons that we
have.
And each gate in human designhas potentially a thousand and
eighty ways it can be expressed.
There are 64 gates, and theyhave a thousand, each of them
(14:44):
has a thousand eighty ways itcould be expressed.
So there is going to be ahigher expression of the
energies in your chart, always,always, always.
There's always another level ofhealing for us to get to, no
matter what modality that we'relooking at.
Yuli (15:00):
So, how do you work with human design as part of your
healing journey?
With my clients?
Well, maybe, yeah, maybe itwill be a good time to give
people some examples, right?
When do people come usually?
Is it something that yourecommend people kind of do the
initial chart and then come backand revisit?
(15:21):
What do you see from your endwhen people come to human
design?
What are the typical points intheir lives that you feel like
it could really help and guidethem?
Vickie (15:30):
Okay, anytime for a baseline reading.
So, what I would what I wouldstrongly suggest is a baseline
reading for almost anyone who'sreally on a healing path and
finding, I feel like I'm missingsomething.
I feel like something is offhere and I can't quite grasp it.
Either my work isn't right, myrelationships aren't right,
something's off.
I don't feel really good aboutthis experience that I'm having.
(15:51):
And find a reader that you canreally relate to.
Find a reader that you're like,okay, I understand what the way
she speaks, the way he speaks.
I get the way that they presentthese concepts.
I feel like they can help meintegrate this information.
Because I had two human designreadings when I very first
started, and then I turned myback on it for four years
because it was just gobbledygookthat I couldn't understand.
(16:13):
And we really need someone whocan unpack all the pieces in a
way that you can take it awayand go, okay, well, this is how
you're going to use this in yourbusiness.
This is how you're going to usethis in your relationship with
your son.
This is why this is happeningat work.
So a baseline reading is reallya good idea.
And what you really want to do,what I would really invite you
to do is to understand your owndesign.
(16:34):
Have that basic reading fromsomeone that you trust, and then
get into really unpacking allthe pieces of your own design,
which is going to take years.
There's still things in mydesign that I will say to
someone else in the field, canyou give me your perspective on
this?
I loved what you shared aboutfinding out your projector in
your business because it's allabout your lived experience.
(16:55):
So you're going to have areading or some baseline to
start with, and then you'regoing to take that information,
hopefully, and you're going tolive it.
And then that might open upsome more questions for you.
And maybe you'll be ready foranother level of it.
But start with the basics.
And please don't think you haveto learn human design.
It's just living your owndesign.
Yuli (17:16):
And was there a commonality among the people
that come to you or somethingthat you really see like this is
one area that it's really likeno other tool or modality?
Vickie (17:28):
So when I first started with human design, using it as
part of my business, I was inholistic health.
I had a holistic healthpractice for about 10 years.
And I worked with women atmidlife, perimenopause and
menopause, that's my jam.
There was still somethingmissing.
Like it was never about theweight or the hormones or the
whatever.
There was something missing.
And I remember in nutritionschool, we had to do these
(17:50):
questionnaires of however manyhundreds of women and do this
survey.
And the number one need or theone number one driver for women
seeking help was unfulfilledexpectations.
And I think there's a realdrive for purpose at midlife.
I know there's a real drive forpurpose at midlife.
That's my story.
And human design just cutsthrough the noise.
(18:12):
It is so personalized that you,I can look in and share with
you, but you can look into yourhuman design and you can see who
you're here to be at yourhighest self.
So when I first started in mypractice, that's what I was
dealing with mostly was purposewith women at midlife mixing
with their health.
Fast forward, again,manifesting generator.
I'm not sticking to one thing.
(18:32):
Fast forward, I think fiveyears now, seven years now, and
I use it more for business.
I use it with womenspecifically around messaging.
And I was listening to some ofyour episodes today that were so
good.
One of them was the elevatorpitch one.
And in my head, I'm alwayslike, but what about their human
design?
Because I think that we missoftentimes the bigger piece of
the conversation.
(18:53):
Expecting women to show uponline in business, speaking
their truth, saying theirelevator pitch, making their
offers, all of these things.
And then we forget that they'vegot this noose around their
neck or this frog in theirthroat whenever they go to speak
their actual truth because it'sbeen so conditioned out of
(19:13):
them.
So now the work that I do, Imean, it's always all there.
There's always all the layersof purpose and all of that.
But the work that I do reallynow is around your voice and
your message so that you cansay, actually, the message that
you came here to share, so youcan change the world.
Yuli (19:30):
Oh my God, this is such an incredible work and resonates
so much because I think it'ssomething that definitely gets
overlooked with a lot of theadvice that is given, and it
creates this internal struggle,right?
You start feeling inadequate.
And for me, it was I was in avery similar place realizing
(19:51):
that as a you know founder, CEOof a company, there's this
pressure to be public, to beperfect presenter and speaker
and um do all those things thatwere not my nature.
So I had to train myself and Ihad to consciously work on um
opening the center many wayswith multiple modalities.
And this podcast is actuallythis is my healing tool.
(20:14):
Because really the easy, Imean, you can do any holistic
modality out there, but if youdon't practice, it doesn't
become part of your body.
It it just kind of lives thereas a dream in your mental body.
But I really wanted to embodythat.
So this podcast, as much asit's terrifying and it's such a
headache to produce sometimes.
And I get to this places thatyou just like you have days that
(20:38):
you have two guests scheduled,and you just wake up and like,
oh my god, I have to like findthe strength in me to get out
there, be on camera.
And now that we moved oncamera, this was my next for two
years we did it just audiobecause that's all I could take.
And only about a couple ofmonths ago we moved to video,
which was my next push formyself because I think um the
(21:03):
other part of it is beingvisible, being heard is one, but
then being seen and beingvisible, that's a whole other
challenge.
And I'm pushing myself throughit because I know this is part
of my healing work, is one, andtwo, this is what's gonna help
spread the important message I'mtrying to spread in this day
and age, but it takes work, ittakes a lot of internal work.
(21:26):
I think a lot of people makethis mistake thinking, well,
it's just easy for this person.
Yeah.
Because they're born with it.
Yes, yes, and all day long toattest, right?
That for many most of us arenot born with this natural
abilities to be podcasters andsocial media stars and all those
things, right?
But I think many of us arechoosing this form of healing
(21:53):
because really we feel that thisis part of our purpose.
So I'm glad that you you'rehelping other women especially
to open that center.
It's a really sacred work.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Can I ask you something?
Even though you're theinterviewer, you can always uh
switch up.
Yeah.
Vickie (22:14):
It'll help you if your listeners as well who are
projectors.
Do you recognize yourself?
Do you have a daily practice oftaking time to recognize
yourself as a projector?
Yuli (22:22):
Not specifically as a projector.
I mean, I have a dailymeditation practice, and but
yes.
Vickie (22:28):
It's and I hear this from my projector clients.
Actually, I'm gonna give kudosto the the projector who shared
this with me, and now we shareit with all of our projectors,
but Juliana Christine is worksin the human design field, the
relationship alchemy field.
And she has realized as aprojector how important
recognition is for you.
Ra, the founder of humandesign, always said recognition
starts with you.
(22:49):
So projectors so often don'tunderstand their gifts and how
special you are as a projector.
You're a lighthouse.
You're meant to be there.
Like the lighthouse doesn't goout to the ships, the ships come
to the lighthouse.
So when you have a practicedaily of recognizing yourself,
it could be something, Yuli,great job showing up for that
(23:09):
podcast when you didn't want toshow up.
Great job getting out of bed,great job doing the dish, like
whatever it is.
I recognize you, I see you.
And it may sound ridiculous.
I mean, we've probably on thispodcast, your listeners have all
been familiar with mirror work,but I think it really was
designed for projectors.
Because the way that it'sexplained to me by my
(23:29):
projectors, it's not my livedexperience, is that it almost
enlivens you.
It like juzges you up from theinside when you recognize
yourself.
And then it feels like you'vebeen invited.
You've invited yourself, but itfeels like that.
So for what it's worth on thosedays when it's like I've got to
face this calendar full ofthings and I want to crawl into
(23:50):
a hole.
Yuli (23:51):
I love this advice.
And it's interesting that yousaid that because I often feel
like I it I expect thatrecognition or I crave that
recognition from others, andit's not always there.
I mean, we don't live in thisperfect uh society and
surroundings that people just goaround and compliment us.
(24:11):
And I certainly didn't grow upin that culture at all.
I think it's also somethingvery American or you know
Canadian too.
Yeah.
Something maybe in in thisculture that's part of it, but
it wasn't part of my culture.
The the constant um, you know,positive reinforcement and
recognition and compliments.
So it took me a while to learnhow to do that for others.
(24:35):
But then also I do have thatexpectation which often comes
with disappointment andbitterness.
Vickie (24:41):
That's where the resentfulness, where you get
resentful because nobody'srecognizing you.
And then you might accept, notjust you, any projector, might
accept the wrong invitation justbecause you're so hungry for
that recognition.
And it's not a fault.
We tend to think in um in ourculture, we tend to think, well,
if you're looking forrecognition, there's something
wrong with you.
That's the mechanics.
That's what lights up yourdesign.
(25:02):
That's what actually makes youmove and get out of bed in the
morning.
And what a world it would be ifpeople did actually walk around
recognizing each other.
Like if every one of yourlisteners today went out and
recognized one person in theirlife.
Imagine what a day that wouldbe for the planet.
Yuli (25:17):
Absolutely.
I mean, it's such an importanttopic because it for me and it's
constant like can you continuedoing, being in the lighthouse
and do everything you do withouthaving that recognition too,
right?
And we often struggle and we goto this place when we labor
ourselves, or we try to kind ofshame ourselves for creating
(25:38):
that recognition, right?
That oh, it's an ego.
But it's just so comforting toknow that this is not coming
from an ego.
This is again part of mydesign.
So I I learned something todaythat I'm grateful for.
Yay.
And hopefully some of ourlisteners too.
And I think it's just a greatexample how some of those tools,
(26:01):
like you know, human designparticular, can give you that
comfort and self-acceptance,which I think is just such a big
part of any healing, right?
Anything we can take, anycondition, mental, physical, um,
a lot of it is rooted uh w inin this lack of self-acceptance
(26:23):
or um really internal struggleswith who we are.
Lives that it's wrong.
That we're wrong.
Yeah.
So I think any tool that leadsyou to that self-acceptance and
gives you tools to understandyourself and um not feel
inadequate is extremelyimportant on a healing journey.
(26:45):
I just want to take a pause andtake a deep breath because I
feel like you know, I always saysome of the episodes I record,
uh, some of them are forlisteners, but some of them are
also my own healing episodes,which I really selfishly love.
And this is really part of thereason I love this podcast, and
(27:07):
I go through all the thetechnical setups and all those
dreading thoughts becausethere's a lot of nuggets of uh
wisdom that come through, and alot of those episodes I do feel
like I get the healing just bybeing there and learning and um
(27:28):
unpacking things about myself aswell.
So thank you for that.
And um, I wanted to also learna little bit more about.
I know that you use now, youmentioned you use now human
design more for the businessside, which is another exciting
topic that I'm more I alwayslove to talk about because I
think anyone who brings this umdepth of um you know
(27:52):
spirituality and connection andconsciousness into the business
world is just um, I mean, youyour sacred work here.
This is what we need now in thebusiness world because we're
going through thistransformation that we're
unlearning a lot of the old waysthat you know we're were
installed in us, and we'rereally rewiring ourselves for
(28:15):
this new era of doing businessactually consciously.
So I'm curious how you bringhuman design into the business
world and how you work with yourclients on that piece.
Vickie (28:30):
Well, it's a thread that just goes through everything
that I do.
So I had the opportunity thisweek to interview five of the
grads of my signature programthat I run, Content by Design.
And much like a projector,sometimes you can't see
yourself.
You can see others so clearly,you can't see yourself.
I'm a two-four profile, secondline in human design.
I can't see myself.
(28:50):
And it was so interesting tohear these women talk about what
they got out of it.
And it seems to be that one ofthe things that I do is that I
weave human design soeffortlessly into I have built,
I know I'm I'm disjointedsentence here.
I'm sorry, but I've built fivedifferent multi-six-figure
businesses across fivecompletely different industries.
(29:10):
And I love, love, lovebusiness.
But what I didn't love was thatI burned myself out three times
in those businesses.
And I look around and I see asea of women who are completely
burned out in their businesses.
So my secret sauce really seemsto be helping you to see how
you can do your business yourway.
(29:32):
There is absolutely no reasonyou can't have whatever
business, whatever goal,whatever you want in your life.
But let's do it in a way thatyou don't burn down your life
every seven to 10 years to getit done.
Let's build it in a way whereyou can, like for me, my
grandkids had an impromptusleepover last night.
Or I can do whatever I wantduring the day as long as I get
(29:55):
the other work done when theenergy is there for it.
I'm a man.
Manifesting generator.
I need to be doing 16 things atonce.
You're a projector.
That's probably not going to beyour path.
But we all have beenconditioned to be generative.
Like my conditioning says youhave to stick to one thing, you
have to do it this way, and ithas to be one thing.
Whereas yours probably says,you better get more done in a
(30:18):
day.
You better get hustling.
I just take all of that out thewindow.
Look at your unique humandesign, looking at, like you
have human design circuitry aswell, which we didn't talk
about.
We could talk for days aboutall of this stuff.
But we can look into yourdesign and we can see, are you
bent more towards group work?
Are you bent more towardsone-on-one work?
(30:38):
Because there's this danger inthe online space where we tell
women that the only way they'regoing to scale their business is
to offer a group program and tosell it en masse.
But if you don't have anycircuitry for a group program,
good luck holding that grouptogether or not falling apart
yourself.
And then I have these beautifulwomen who make excellent
(30:59):
one-on-one coaches.
And they get so discouragedbecause they think they're never
going to be able to scalebecause somebody somewhere told
them that's not the way to run abusiness one-on-one, you're
going to kill yourself.
But if that's their gift andthat's their genius, then let's
find a way that they canactually scale that one-on-one
work so that they're lit upevery day of their life and they
don't burn themselves out andthey do good work on the planet.
(31:20):
So there's there's all these, Iuse every area of your human
design to say, how can we getyou where you want to go with
your path of least resistance?
To me, that's what your humandesign is for.
It's the map of how you'regoing to do this thing that you
came here to do without breakingyour life.
Yuli (31:40):
I love that.
And yeah, I wish I knew more ofthose tools when I was an
entrepreneur who's burning outand trying again to hustle and
push myself constantly withouteven realizing that, you know,
this limited amount of energy isnot something that I can solve
with supplements.
Yeah, so good.
(32:01):
Which is another thing peopletend to like I think you
mentioned earlier, people firstthing they go to like hormones
or um supplements.
And when you realize this iswho you are and just learn to
accept that very lovingly, yeah,I do still take supplements.
Okay, of course, it can hurt,but I also have certain
(32:24):
expectations about what I canaccomplish and how I do that
without burning myself out.
That's I think a very importantmessage.
Vickie (32:33):
And I don't think it's about so many times.
Here's another thing I getfrustrated with in human design,
it turns out, but so many timeswe talk about projectors like
you should be tired all thetime.
It's like you're not called tobe tired, you're called to be
rested.
So, like treasuring thatenergy, really treasuring the
energy that you have and being agood steward of it.
Whereas for me, I'm theopposite end of the spectrum.
(32:56):
I have so much energy thatthere are days that I have to
actually move my body to get ridof energy.
And so instead of me trying tosit at a desk or trying to just
have one project on the go andtake it from start to finish,
that's never gonna happen in mylife.
And now the women that are inmy world, that are in my
containers, they love it when Igo all many gen on them.
(33:17):
I will always be like, okay,I'm sorry, you guys, I have to
bring this up as well and I haveto talk about this.
And they're like, nope, bringit on.
That's what we're here for.
That's why we're here.
Because we chose you because ofthat energy.
And your people are gonnachoose you, and someone else's
people are gonna choose themwhen we actually embrace who we
are.
Don't just accept it.
Freaking love it.
Yuli (33:36):
Another thing you mentioned that um some of the
work you do is around messaging,um, human design messaging.
Can you talk a little bit aboutthat?
Vickie (33:47):
I could talk all day about that.
Um yes.
So I think that's an oftenoverlooked place where human
design could be used more thanit is in true manifesting
generator fashion.
One of my other careers, I'malso a copywriter.
So I I love words, I lovelinguistics.
Everything about writing iswhat I love.
(34:08):
And we've got so muchconditioning around who we are.
And then we try to show uponline, and I will say it's like
trying to show up at your30-year high school reunion
naked and expect you won't bejudged or be afraid of people
judging you.
That's what it feels like to bein the online business
(34:28):
sometimes.
And people are buying all thesetemplates and these formulas
and now ChatGPT prompts and GPTsand all of these things, but
there's deeper work to be done.
There's so much conditioningaround the voice.
You think of all of the timesthat you were told in your life,
especially you with the 4323channel, don't say it like that.
(34:49):
That's too weird.
I don't understand what you'retalking about.
Or maybe you tried to get ananswer in school and you went
about it a completely differentway than anyone else, and you
still got the right answer, butit was wrong somehow because of
the way that you did it withthat particular channel.
I work with a lot of fifth lineprofiles.
Fifth line profiles, I think,have the biggest witch wound of
(35:10):
all of us because they are theheretics.
They are the ones who are hereto tell it like it is at all
costs, let the chips fall wherethey may.
Doesn't mean they're mean,doesn't mean they're witches.
Just means they just have thisgift for seeing it, for seeing
what needs to be fixed andcalling it out.
Well, you picture athree-year-old little girl or a
five-year-old little girl.
My granddaughter is afifth-line profile.
(35:33):
And the number of times thatshe says something, she's also
here to be shocking, and thenumber of times that something
comes out of her mouth.
And I think, because when I wasa kid, it would have been like,
don't you dare talk like that.
But she's actually designed totalk like that.
So when we go back with thework that I do in the messaging,
it's it's not about, I helpso-and-so to do so-and-so
(35:55):
without so-and-so.
It's it's not that statement.
It's not like, yes, we need allof that stuff.
But if we haven't done thedeeper work on actually what are
all those things that we'vebeen told about ourselves,
sometimes, not sometimes, mostof the time, the women that I
work with, they pour out theirhearts on their keyboards and
(36:15):
they're ready to do the post.
And that delete button is theirbest friend in life.
They have got so much inside ofthem that is unsaid.
And so instead of saying whatthey really need to say, what
they really mean to say, theydelete it all and they put up
something inspirational oreducational, because educational
content, if I just keepeducating people and telling
(36:37):
them how to do this or tellingthem this about human design or
this about Reiki or whatever itis, then surely they'll think
I'm smart enough and they'llhire me.
Meanwhile, it's like stuck inyour throat what you really need
to say, what's actually goingto bring your soul fit client to
you, is when you say that.
So that's that's the work thatI do with my people.
Yuli (36:57):
Yes.
I know I'm a lot.
You're all sitting there.
And yeah, it sounds uhincredible.
And I love that youincorporating with human design
is just um I look forward todigging more into your work.
And uh, I know we're runningout of time and have so many
questions because you feel likea wealth of information on the
topic and a lot of importanttopics that I think our
(37:20):
listeners will appreciate aswell.
But I wanted to thank you forbeing here.
And if there's anything elsethat you wish to say is kind of
parting words of wisdom forpeople who are looking to
utilize human design or maybeeven learn themselves.
Vickie (37:36):
I think the biggest thing that I would say is don't
get caught in the trap ofthinking that you have to learn
human design.
Focus on your own design andlive the bits that you learn,
and it'll change your life.
And then if you want to learn,I'm not saying don't ever learn,
but it can be so overwhelmingif you try to learn everything.
(37:57):
But if you just focus on you toget started, that'll give you
enough that you can work with.
Yuli (38:04):
Absolutely.
And we didn't touch one topic,but I think a lot of our
listeners might be curious howthis can be used also in more
like uh physical conditions orphysical challenges, whether
it's chronic disease orinjuries, or maybe you mentioned
women and perimenopause.
(38:24):
So I'm just curious how does itwork with the physical body?
Vickie (38:27):
So there definitely are correlations with the gates to
the physical body, but I'm gonnakeep it like really top level
here, high level, because it'ssomething that everybody can
use.
So generators and manifestinggenerators, let's talk about
sleep because most people don'thave the best sleep in the
world.
So generators and manifestinggenerators have loads of sacral
energy.
Every day they get a new loadof energy.
(38:49):
And this starts very young.
What we do with all people, butgenerators and manifesting
generators, we sit them down ata desk for eight hours and we
don't have them moving theirbodies.
You need to physically moveyour body daily.
If you're a generator ormanifesting generator, you
absolutely have to move thatenergy through your body.
When you don't, you willexperience ADD, ADHD, kind of
(39:11):
unscattered thought patterns.
You could have thyroid issuesbecause the energy doesn't have
anywhere to go.
Because all energy in humandesign, this is really weird,
but all energy in human designis trying to get to the throat
so it can have effects on yourthyroid.
And then you can't sleepbecause you're buzzing.
So I have four grandchildren.
Three of them are generatortypes, and at bedtime, they run
(39:32):
around their open concept house.
Like if you go to their houseat bedtime, it's like you want
to go outside because it iscrazy in there.
And, you know, we sat our kidsdown and had them read books and
all of these things, but that'sthe last thing that generators,
types, manifesting generatorsand generators need.
They need to get their energyout.
And they will say to us, wejust got to get our energy out
before bedtime, Amy.
Perfect that we're teachingthem that because we didn't
(39:55):
learn that.
And then we have this epidemicof people who can't sleep, and
80% of people who are diagnosedwith thyroid conditions are
women and all of the things.
So that's one thing.
A projectors, manifestors,reflectors, completely the
opposite.
You have amplified, taken on,sucked up so much sacral energy
that isn't yours throughout theday that what you want to do is
(40:16):
have about 30 minutes where youcan be in a prone position
before bedtime by yourself andlet all of that sacral energy
dissipate.
This should not be watchingscary movies or having
conversations about money or anyof those things.
It's, you know, maybe reading anice book, maybe having a bath,
laying down in the tub, but youreally need to let that go so
(40:38):
that then you can relax intosleep.
It's also really a benefit forwe call them non-sacral beings,
people who do not have a definedsacral, so projectors,
manifestors, reflectors, tosleep alone so that you're not
being conditioned while yousleep, because then you wake up
and you don't feel like yourselfwhen you're sleeping with
somebody else that'sconditioning you while you
sleep.
So that's just one of thethings.
(40:59):
One more thing that I will sayis if there are any channels, so
a channel is the full linebetween two numbers.
If there are any channelsbetween your spleen center and
your root center, you need liketo sweat daily.
You have to work out daily toget rid of that energy.
There are so many other thingsI could say, but we would be
(41:19):
here all day.
So that's like just tip of theiceberg.
Yuli (41:22):
Well, thank you.
I know we're trying to wrap up,but I just had to ask this
question.
And thank you.
It's an amazing advice.
And I can totally relate towhat you're saying and actually
have like a 30-minute windingdown routine every night that
totally contributes to my sleepscore, skyrocketing.
So confirmed.
Good, good.
Yeah.
(41:43):
Amazing.
Well, thank you for being thisuh wealth of information,
wisdom.
I do hope we inspired some ofour listeners to dig deeper into
human design, at least gettheir own chart, right?
It's easily available online, Ibelieve for free.
And I know on your website Iwas able to just go and and get
one pretty quickly.
So we're gonna put that in theshow notes.
(42:04):
Thank you again.
And we're gonna let people knowagain in the show notes where
to find you and your incredibleservices.
Thank you.
It was fun to be here.
Thank you, Vickie.
Welcome to the Heallist Podcast, where we unpack the
many layers of holistic health.
I'm Yuli, founder of Heallist,your portal to holistic healers
worldwide.
Now let's go deep.
Hello, dear friends, andwelcome to the Heallist Podcast.
Today we're unpacking humandesign with Vickie Dickson,
(00:21):
known as the Business Whisperer,with 30 years of
entrepreneurial experience.
She's built several businessesand now using human design to
help people understand thebasics and also improve their
businesses using some of thosehuman design techniques and
principles.
And I'm just super excited tohave you here with us today and
(00:42):
really unpack one of thosemysterious modalities that I'm
personally played with a littlebit, but I would love to learn
more.
And I'm sure some of ourlisteners could be curious as
well.
How can they utilize thisamazing tool for their life, for
their business, for theirhealth?
So welcome to the podcast.
And I'd like to set intentionfor each episode.
And for this one, I really wantto help empower people with
(01:05):
this amazing tool that I knowcan be life-changing.
So thank you, Vickie, for beinghere with us.
Thank you for having me.
It's the best life-changingtool on the planet, in my
opinion.
Amazing.
So I can't wait to dive intodetails.
But first of all, I'm curiousto start with some of the
misconceptions that you'reseeing around what human design
(01:28):
is, what it does, maybedifferent like limiting beliefs
that people have around it.
And maybe even define it,because some of our listeners
might not even be familiar withwhat it really means, or maybe
have a wrong idea about it.
Vickie (01:41):
My very favorite description of what human design
is is that if the chakrasystem, the I Ching, astrology,
and the Jewish Kabbalah had ababy, it would be human design.
Because it makes it accessibleto most of us who have had these
healing modalities in our livesfor some time.
It's based on your birthinformation.
So it's not, it's notsubjective.
(02:03):
It's something that's fact.
It's never going to change.
That's one of the questions Iget a lot.
Like, will my human designchange the more deconditioning
or healing work I do?
And no, your human design isalways your human design.
Some of the things that I get alittle frustrated with, I'm a
manifesting generator, sofrustration is something that
happens in my life.
And some of the things that Iget frustrated with are people
thinking that their human designdictates whether they can do
(02:26):
something or not.
Should I have a group coachingprogram because I'm a projector?
Should I have a, you know, allof these things.
Your human design doesn't tellyou what you can do.
It tells you how to do what youdo.
It gives you your path of leastresistance.
You can do anything you want todo.
We all have all of the design.
It's just which parts are yougoing to activate and use for
(02:48):
the particular work that you'redoing.
And then the other bigfrustration, I would say there's
really only two, but the otherone is using your human design
as a label or an excuse, whichis kind of the same thing.
I can't do that because I'm aprojector.
I can't do this because I'mthis.
I can't do that.
And on and on it goes.
And human design is so muchmore than your type.
(03:09):
One of the questions I askedyou when we started was what's
your profile?
Those two little numbers.
It means so much in yourdesign.
We want to look at all of theareas and see the nuances
together.
And I think that that's oftenmissed in this cookie cutter
chat GPT content saturationplace that we live in right now.
Yuli (03:27):
So let's talk about some of those um things that you
mentioned, just to again helpour listeners who might not be
familiar with some of the basicsof it, right?
So there's the profiles, thereare the general, there's
numbers.
If you can give us also alittle bit of a background, like
where did it come from?
Where is this?
How was this system created?
Vickie (03:47):
Sure.
So this system was a divinedownload, shall we say?
Uh, to a Canadian, actually.
I'm Canadian as well, about twoand a half hours from where I
live.
And Ra Uru Hu is what he hadchanged his name to once the
human design system wasdownloaded.
It's taken from your birthinformation.
So you're going to want to haveyour birthday and place and
(04:08):
time because we want to seewhere the planets were at the
time of your birth.
That's a lot about how humandesign works.
It highlights different gates,which are taken from the I
Ching.
So that's where you see thenumbers on your chart.
Human design has really weirdwords.
There's so many weird words toget a hold of.
I know when I was firstintroduced to it, probably it
(04:29):
came into my field for aboutfour years before finally I had
some horrific experiences happenthat led me to human design to
seriously study human design.
But before then, it was justthere was so much to get a hold
of.
The chart looks weird, thenumbers are weird, the words are
weird, all of the things.
So the basics are your type andstrategy.
So your type is going to be amanifesting generator, a
(04:52):
generator, a projector, amanifester, or a reflector.
And then there are 12 differentprofiles.
Your profile really tells youthe role that you play in the
movie of your life.
It is the easiest thing and thehardest thing to embody.
Well, no, we discovered youweren't.
So I am a two-four.
Second lines need time tohermit away.
(05:12):
So what do you think the thingwas that I was told was wrong
with me for my whole life?
You're too quiet.
You're snotty.
You need too much time alone.
Come be with the people.
So it's natural for me to fallinto this second line, we call
it, but it's also really hard.
So that's a big deconditioningarea for people.
Those two numbers that showyour profile, you're gonna find
a lot of healing work that youcan do there.
(05:34):
And then when you can reallystep into that, it changes
everything.
I think even if you only usedyour type and strategy in your
profile for the rest of yourlife, you would experience so
much more ease in your life.
Yuli (05:47):
Absolutely.
And I I couldn't agree morewith you.
Once I I know actually verylittle about human design, but
once I discovered, um, I thinkone of my strategies is waiting
for invitation.
And that was a good dangerbecause for someone who's built
businesses and was kind offorced to, you know, as a
business owner, you're alwaysthe seller, right?
You have to market, you have tosell.
(06:08):
And it was always reallychallenging for me.
And I thought, well, it'sbecause maybe I didn't go to
business school or I wasn'ttrained in sales and all those
things.
And I really worked hard.
And a lot of it was using likethe hustle culture, right?
Or using the power.
And once I realized like thisis actually something to do with
my type, and resonated so much,and it completely changed my
(06:31):
business strategy and how Iapproach things and really
reduced a lot of the frustrationwith myself, and maybe uh even
boosted my self-confidence, justknowing that there's a
different way, maybe to do salesthat is more suitable for my
type.
So it was really for me, I canattest.
(06:51):
It was um it was reallylife-changing, even just knowing
that.
Vickie (06:55):
Especially as a projector, I think I I have so
many projectors in my world, andI think, oh my gosh, to find
out that you're a projector mustbe so many pieces must click
for you when you hear that andyou understand what it means.
Yuli (07:07):
Right, right.
And then even looking at thepicture when I did my chart and
just seeing that I only have thefirst the top three centers lit
up and everything else isbasically wide open.
Um, it really it it clicked alot of things, like you said.
So, can I unpack that a littlebit with you?
Yes, would that be helpful?
(07:28):
Let's choose me as an example.
I love that.
Vickie (07:31):
Sure.
Or for even for any of yourlisteners, when you're looking
at the whiteness or the areas inyour chart that are not colored
in, you're looking at whatyou're breathing in from the
field.
So lots of times in humandesign circles, we will hear
that, or we will say that that'swhere it's your not-self, which
it is, it's your not-self.
It's not who it's who you'renot here to be, but it's who you
(07:52):
think you are.
And that where you can amplifythe energies of others.
And we always look at it as abad thing.
But those are actually whereyour lessons are held, in that
whiteness, in that openness.
So when we look at your design,Yuli, we see more openness than
definition.
The areas that are colored inare considered defined.
When you're where you'redefined, that's where you're
(08:12):
broadcasting out.
And where you're undefined,that's where you're breathing
in.
So those undefined areas arelike light switches that are
off.
And when you're in arelationship with someone in
aura with someone who has someof that definition, the light
switch goes on.
So you have this variableenergy there.
And for you, probably you canpush through when you're with
(08:32):
certain people and you can feellike, wow, I can just do all of
the things.
And then you get away from themand you're like, oh my gosh,
I'm exhausted.
What just happened to me?
And it's because you amplifiedthose energies.
But your challenge is one ofyour challenges is to be really
wise about the use of energy andhow precious it is as a
projector.
Yuli (08:50):
Yeah.
Vickie (08:50):
So I think rather than looking at our openness as like
something we don't have, it'sactually really incredible
gifts, especially in yourbusiness, to use your openness.
Yuli (08:59):
I love that.
I love that perspective.
Yeah, it's definitely, I think,a big piece of human design,
right?
To figure out how you work withthe parts are defined versus
not defined, which I feel likeit's in general in our life.
Yes.
It's something, anyone on thehealing path, right?
It's always this kind of um,the things that I know I have.
(09:23):
This is part of my personality,DNA, however you want to call
it.
And those are the parts thatcan be transformed and that are
more fluid.
I find it really fascinatingthat actually helps you define
that.
Vickie (09:38):
And when you think about the things, the areas that are
defined in your human design, wetend to think that we are only
conditioned in our openness.
But we have different kinds ofconditioning.
So the areas where you are,like you have a lot of mental
definition, you have a lot ofwanting to speak your mind in
your particular design.
You have really weird insightsthat nobody else can understand.
(09:59):
And so much individuality.
And those are probably thethings that people told you were
just too much.
That's that's way too much.
Too weird.
We can't wrap our minds aroundthat.
No, keep that to yourself.
And where you're open, that'swhere you kind of internalize
that I'm not enough.
I don't have energy here.
I don't have like for you, youhave an undefined G center, the
(10:21):
diamond shape in the middle ofyour chart.
So oftentimes it can be reallywondering like, what direction
am I going?
Who am I really?
Like all these differentidentity shifts, geographical
sensitivity.
But oh my gosh, to help someoneelse with their direction in
life, you've got it in spades.
You can just coach them likenobody's business.
But now it's always harder forourselves.
Yuli (10:42):
Yeah, no, it makes so much sense.
And definitely, I think this iswhy it took me so many years to
come to this place that I speakmy mind and I have a podcast.
Yeah.
Because I feel like finally I'mcomfortable sharing some of
those weird woo ideas, whateveryou want to call them, right?
And it's just it feels likehome, but it took a lot of work
(11:04):
to be comfortable with thisweirdness.
And I'm sure a lot of healers,a lot of people on the healing
path who are listening to thatcan relate to that.
It's uh a big part of ourjourney is to accept those parts
that by society often definedand all kinds of labels.
So thank you for um definingthat very, very nicely.
(11:25):
So you mentioned birth chartand and planets, and I'm sure
it's a question that you getasked a lot.
How is it different fromastrology?
And I I actually studiedastrology, so I know a little
bit about it, a little bit aboutthe science of it, but I'm
curious, are those two related?
Um, and if so, what are some ofthe similarities or
(11:46):
differences?
Vickie (11:48):
Sure.
So I know just enough aboutastrology to make me dangerous,
and I am so drawn to it.
I want to learn it so much.
But it's it's I find it so muchmore complicated.
And human design is complicatedtoo when we first look at it.
And maybe it's because it's myfirst love that I'm like, okay,
I'm I'm in the role of this.
Astrology, I feel like has alot more moving parts.
I could be just making that up,but it that's what it feels
(12:08):
like to me.
The planets are the same.
No matter if you're looking atastrology or human design, those
planetary things are going tobe the same.
So Mercury is always going tobe the planet of communication.
Your conscious sun is gonna bein human design, it's about 70%
of who you are.
In astrology, I believe it'swho you are, I think.
Your sun planet, yeah.
Um, so so yeah, the planets aregonna be the same as astrology.
(12:31):
Those astrological placementsare gonna be really important in
your human design chart.
Yuli (12:36):
But one thing astrology has that you mentioned is that
complexity is um through themovement of the planets and the
transits and and um um, and thatadds a whole other layer,
right?
That also will then explainsome of the changes and the
transformations.
So you mentioned earlier onthat human design, like a lot of
(12:58):
people kind of ask for thisquestion what happens if a
person transforms or steps on ahealing path and changes?
So I wonder how does it work inhuman design?
Because I understand inastrology through transits, and
I'm curious how human designtackles those transformations.
Vickie (13:18):
So there are the planets are transiting the same as
they're transiting in astrology,they're transiting in human
design.
So we see them move throughdifferent pieces of your design.
Right now, for instance, thesun and earth that's transiting
is gates.
We look at them as gates, gates63 and 64 are transiting right
now.
It's a lot of mental pressure.
The founder of human designalways called this headache
(13:39):
weather.
I woke up yesterday, the firstday of the transit, with a
headache.
And I rarely get headaches.
Maybe three days a year I wouldget a headache.
But a lot of people areexperiencing this mental
pressure.
So we look at the planets thatare transiting the gate numbers
in human design.
We also look at the bigplanetary transits, like what
astrology does Saturn return,second Saturn return, third
(14:00):
Saturn return.
Chiron return is big for thewomen that I work with because I
work with women at midlife, andthat's our wounded healer.
So we have this massivetransformation.
We have the Uranus oppositionaround 40, 45, something like
that, where we've thought foryears these are midlife crisis,
but it's just that we're more onour healing path.
So through thesetransformations that we go
(14:22):
through, it doesn't change yourdesign.
Same as in astrology.
Your astrology is always goingto be your astrology, but you're
gonna experience these transitsthrough life.
You're gonna do your healingwork, hopefully, go through all
of these things that we gothrough, these lessons that we
have.
And each gate in human designhas potentially a thousand and
eighty ways it can be expressed.
There are 64 gates, and theyhave a thousand, each of them
(14:44):
has a thousand eighty ways itcould be expressed.
So there is going to be ahigher expression of the
energies in your chart, always,always, always.
There's always another level ofhealing for us to get to, no
matter what modality that we'relooking at.
Yuli (15:00):
So, how do you work with human design as part of your
healing journey?
With my clients?
Well, maybe, yeah, maybe itwill be a good time to give
people some examples, right?
When do people come usually?
Is it something that yourecommend people kind of do the
initial chart and then come backand revisit?
(15:21):
What do you see from your endwhen people come to human
design?
What are the typical points intheir lives that you feel like
it could really help and guidethem?
Vickie (15:30):
Okay, anytime for a baseline reading.
So, what I would what I wouldstrongly suggest is a baseline
reading for almost anyone who'sreally on a healing path and
finding, I feel like I'm missingsomething.
I feel like something is offhere and I can't quite grasp it.
Either my work isn't right, myrelationships aren't right,
something's off.
I don't feel really good aboutthis experience that I'm having.
(15:51):
And find a reader that you canreally relate to.
Find a reader that you're like,okay, I understand what the way
she speaks, the way he speaks.
I get the way that they presentthese concepts.
I feel like they can help meintegrate this information.
Because I had two human designreadings when I very first
started, and then I turned myback on it for four years
because it was just gobbledygookthat I couldn't understand.
(16:13):
And we really need someone whocan unpack all the pieces in a
way that you can take it awayand go, okay, well, this is how
you're going to use this in yourbusiness.
This is how you're going to usethis in your relationship with
your son.
This is why this is happeningat work.
So a baseline reading is reallya good idea.
And what you really want to do,what I would really invite you
to do is to understand your owndesign.
(16:34):
Have that basic reading fromsomeone that you trust, and then
get into really unpacking allthe pieces of your own design,
which is going to take years.
There's still things in mydesign that I will say to
someone else in the field, canyou give me your perspective on
this?
I loved what you shared aboutfinding out your projector in
your business because it's allabout your lived experience.
(16:55):
So you're going to have areading or some baseline to
start with, and then you'regoing to take that information,
hopefully, and you're going tolive it.
And then that might open upsome more questions for you.
And maybe you'll be ready foranother level of it.
But start with the basics.
And please don't think you haveto learn human design.
It's just living your owndesign.
Yuli (17:16):
And was there a commonality among the people
that come to you or somethingthat you really see like this is
one area that it's really likeno other tool or modality?
Vickie (17:28):
So when I first started with human design, using it as
part of my business, I was inholistic health.
I had a holistic healthpractice for about 10 years.
And I worked with women atmidlife, perimenopause and
menopause, that's my jam.
There was still somethingmissing.
Like it was never about theweight or the hormones or the
whatever.
There was something missing.
And I remember in nutritionschool, we had to do these
(17:50):
questionnaires of however manyhundreds of women and do this
survey.
And the number one need or theone number one driver for women
seeking help was unfulfilledexpectations.
And I think there's a realdrive for purpose at midlife.
I know there's a real drive forpurpose at midlife.
That's my story.
And human design just cutsthrough the noise.
(18:12):
It is so personalized that you,I can look in and share with
you, but you can look into yourhuman design and you can see who
you're here to be at yourhighest self.
So when I first started in mypractice, that's what I was
dealing with mostly was purposewith women at midlife mixing
with their health.
Fast forward, again,manifesting generator.
I'm not sticking to one thing.
(18:32):
Fast forward, I think fiveyears now, seven years now, and
I use it more for business.
I use it with womenspecifically around messaging.
And I was listening to some ofyour episodes today that were so
good.
One of them was the elevatorpitch one.
And in my head, I'm alwayslike, but what about their human
design?
Because I think that we missoftentimes the bigger piece of
the conversation.
(18:53):
Expecting women to show uponline in business, speaking
their truth, saying theirelevator pitch, making their
offers, all of these things.
And then we forget that they'vegot this noose around their
neck or this frog in theirthroat whenever they go to speak
their actual truth because it'sbeen so conditioned out of
(19:13):
them.
So now the work that I do, Imean, it's always all there.
There's always all the layersof purpose and all of that.
But the work that I do reallynow is around your voice and
your message so that you cansay, actually, the message that
you came here to share, so youcan change the world.
Yuli (19:30):
Oh my God, this is such an incredible work and resonates
so much because I think it'ssomething that definitely gets
overlooked with a lot of theadvice that is given, and it
creates this internal struggle,right?
You start feeling inadequate.
And for me, it was I was in avery similar place realizing
(19:51):
that as a you know founder, CEOof a company, there's this
pressure to be public, to beperfect presenter and speaker
and um do all those things thatwere not my nature.
So I had to train myself and Ihad to consciously work on um
opening the center many wayswith multiple modalities.
And this podcast is actuallythis is my healing tool.
(20:14):
Because really the easy, Imean, you can do any holistic
modality out there, but if youdon't practice, it doesn't
become part of your body.
It it just kind of lives thereas a dream in your mental body.
But I really wanted to embodythat.
So this podcast, as much asit's terrifying and it's such a
headache to produce sometimes.
And I get to this places thatyou just like you have days that
(20:38):
you have two guests scheduled,and you just wake up and like,
oh my god, I have to like findthe strength in me to get out
there, be on camera.
And now that we moved oncamera, this was my next for two
years we did it just audiobecause that's all I could take.
And only about a couple ofmonths ago we moved to video,
which was my next push formyself because I think um the
(21:03):
other part of it is beingvisible, being heard is one, but
then being seen and beingvisible, that's a whole other
challenge.
And I'm pushing myself throughit because I know this is part
of my healing work, is one, andtwo, this is what's gonna help
spread the important message I'mtrying to spread in this day
and age, but it takes work, ittakes a lot of internal work.
(21:26):
I think a lot of people makethis mistake thinking, well,
it's just easy for this person.
Yeah.
Because they're born with it.
Yes, yes, and all day long toattest, right?
That for many most of us arenot born with this natural
abilities to be podcasters andsocial media stars and all those
things, right?
But I think many of us arechoosing this form of healing
(21:53):
because really we feel that thisis part of our purpose.
So I'm glad that you you'rehelping other women especially
to open that center.
It's a really sacred work.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Can I ask you something?
Even though you're theinterviewer, you can always uh
switch up.
Yeah.
Vickie (22:14):
It'll help you if your listeners as well who are
projectors.
Do you recognize yourself?
Do you have a daily practice oftaking time to recognize
yourself as a projector?
Yuli (22:22):
Not specifically as a projector.
I mean, I have a dailymeditation practice, and but
yes.
Vickie (22:28):
It's and I hear this from my projector clients.
Actually, I'm gonna give kudosto the the projector who shared
this with me, and now we shareit with all of our projectors,
but Juliana Christine is worksin the human design field, the
relationship alchemy field.
And she has realized as aprojector how important
recognition is for you.
Ra, the founder of humandesign, always said recognition
starts with you.
(22:49):
So projectors so often don'tunderstand their gifts and how
special you are as a projector.
You're a lighthouse.
You're meant to be there.
Like the lighthouse doesn't goout to the ships, the ships come
to the lighthouse.
So when you have a practicedaily of recognizing yourself,
it could be something, Yuli,great job showing up for that
(23:09):
podcast when you didn't want toshow up.
Great job getting out of bed,great job doing the dish, like
whatever it is.
I recognize you, I see you.
And it may sound ridiculous.
I mean, we've probably on thispodcast, your listeners have all
been familiar with mirror work,but I think it really was
designed for projectors.
Because the way that it'sexplained to me by my
(23:29):
projectors, it's not my livedexperience, is that it almost
enlivens you.
It like juzges you up from theinside when you recognize
yourself.
And then it feels like you'vebeen invited.
You've invited yourself, but itfeels like that.
So for what it's worth on thosedays when it's like I've got to
face this calendar full ofthings and I want to crawl into
(23:50):
a hole.
Yuli (23:51):
I love this advice.
And it's interesting that yousaid that because I often feel
like I it I expect thatrecognition or I crave that
recognition from others, andit's not always there.
I mean, we don't live in thisperfect uh society and
surroundings that people just goaround and compliment us.
(24:11):
And I certainly didn't grow upin that culture at all.
I think it's also somethingvery American or you know
Canadian too.
Yeah.
Something maybe in in thisculture that's part of it, but
it wasn't part of my culture.
The the constant um, you know,positive reinforcement and
recognition and compliments.
So it took me a while to learnhow to do that for others.
(24:35):
But then also I do have thatexpectation which often comes
with disappointment andbitterness.
Vickie (24:41):
That's where the resentfulness, where you get
resentful because nobody'srecognizing you.
And then you might accept, notjust you, any projector, might
accept the wrong invitation justbecause you're so hungry for
that recognition.
And it's not a fault.
We tend to think in um in ourculture, we tend to think, well,
if you're looking forrecognition, there's something
wrong with you.
That's the mechanics.
That's what lights up yourdesign.
(25:02):
That's what actually makes youmove and get out of bed in the
morning.
And what a world it would be ifpeople did actually walk around
recognizing each other.
Like if every one of yourlisteners today went out and
recognized one person in theirlife.
Imagine what a day that wouldbe for the planet.
Yuli (25:17):
Absolutely.
I mean, it's such an importanttopic because it for me and it's
constant like can you continuedoing, being in the lighthouse
and do everything you do withouthaving that recognition too,
right?
And we often struggle and we goto this place when we labor
ourselves, or we try to kind ofshame ourselves for creating
(25:38):
that recognition, right?
That oh, it's an ego.
But it's just so comforting toknow that this is not coming
from an ego.
This is again part of mydesign.
So I I learned something todaythat I'm grateful for.
Yay.
And hopefully some of ourlisteners too.
And I think it's just a greatexample how some of those tools,
(26:01):
like you know, human designparticular, can give you that
comfort and self-acceptance,which I think is just such a big
part of any healing, right?
Anything we can take, anycondition, mental, physical, um,
a lot of it is rooted uh w inin this lack of self-acceptance
(26:23):
or um really internal struggleswith who we are.
Lives that it's wrong.
That we're wrong.
Yeah.
So I think any tool that leadsyou to that self-acceptance and
gives you tools to understandyourself and um not feel
inadequate is extremelyimportant on a healing journey.
(26:45):
I just want to take a pause andtake a deep breath because I
feel like you know, I always saysome of the episodes I record,
uh, some of them are forlisteners, but some of them are
also my own healing episodes,which I really selfishly love.
And this is really part of thereason I love this podcast, and
(27:07):
I go through all the thetechnical setups and all those
dreading thoughts becausethere's a lot of nuggets of uh
wisdom that come through, and alot of those episodes I do feel
like I get the healing just bybeing there and learning and um
(27:28):
unpacking things about myself aswell.
So thank you for that.
And um, I wanted to also learna little bit more about.
I know that you use now, youmentioned you use now human
design more for the businessside, which is another exciting
topic that I'm more I alwayslove to talk about because I
think anyone who brings this umdepth of um you know
(27:52):
spirituality and connection andconsciousness into the business
world is just um, I mean, youyour sacred work here.
This is what we need now in thebusiness world because we're
going through thistransformation that we're
unlearning a lot of the old waysthat you know we're were
installed in us, and we'rereally rewiring ourselves for
(28:15):
this new era of doing businessactually consciously.
So I'm curious how you bringhuman design into the business
world and how you work with yourclients on that piece.
Vickie (28:30):
Well, it's a thread that just goes through everything
that I do.
So I had the opportunity thisweek to interview five of the
grads of my signature programthat I run, Content by Design.
And much like a projector,sometimes you can't see
yourself.
You can see others so clearly,you can't see yourself.
I'm a two-four profile, secondline in human design.
I can't see myself.
(28:50):
And it was so interesting tohear these women talk about what
they got out of it.
And it seems to be that one ofthe things that I do is that I
weave human design soeffortlessly into I have built,
I know I'm I'm disjointedsentence here.
I'm sorry, but I've built fivedifferent multi-six-figure
businesses across fivecompletely different industries.
(29:10):
And I love, love, lovebusiness.
But what I didn't love was thatI burned myself out three times
in those businesses.
And I look around and I see asea of women who are completely
burned out in their businesses.
So my secret sauce really seemsto be helping you to see how
you can do your business yourway.
(29:32):
There is absolutely no reasonyou can't have whatever
business, whatever goal,whatever you want in your life.
But let's do it in a way thatyou don't burn down your life
every seven to 10 years to getit done.
Let's build it in a way whereyou can, like for me, my
grandkids had an impromptusleepover last night.
Or I can do whatever I wantduring the day as long as I get
(29:55):
the other work done when theenergy is there for it.
I'm a man.
Manifesting generator.
I need to be doing 16 things atonce.
You're a projector.
That's probably not going to beyour path.
But we all have beenconditioned to be generative.
Like my conditioning says youhave to stick to one thing, you
have to do it this way, and ithas to be one thing.
Whereas yours probably says,you better get more done in a
(30:18):
day.
You better get hustling.
I just take all of that out thewindow.
Look at your unique humandesign, looking at, like you
have human design circuitry aswell, which we didn't talk
about.
We could talk for days aboutall of this stuff.
But we can look into yourdesign and we can see, are you
bent more towards group work?
Are you bent more towardsone-on-one work?
(30:38):
Because there's this danger inthe online space where we tell
women that the only way they'regoing to scale their business is
to offer a group program and tosell it en masse.
But if you don't have anycircuitry for a group program,
good luck holding that grouptogether or not falling apart
yourself.
And then I have these beautifulwomen who make excellent
(30:59):
one-on-one coaches.
And they get so discouragedbecause they think they're never
going to be able to scalebecause somebody somewhere told
them that's not the way to run abusiness one-on-one, you're
going to kill yourself.
But if that's their gift andthat's their genius, then let's
find a way that they canactually scale that one-on-one
work so that they're lit upevery day of their life and they
don't burn themselves out andthey do good work on the planet.
(31:20):
So there's there's all these, Iuse every area of your human
design to say, how can we getyou where you want to go with
your path of least resistance?
To me, that's what your humandesign is for.
It's the map of how you'regoing to do this thing that you
came here to do without breakingyour life.
Yuli (31:40):
I love that.
And yeah, I wish I knew more ofthose tools when I was an
entrepreneur who's burning outand trying again to hustle and
push myself constantly withouteven realizing that, you know,
this limited amount of energy isnot something that I can solve
with supplements.
Yeah, so good.
(32:01):
Which is another thing peopletend to like I think you
mentioned earlier, people firstthing they go to like hormones
or um supplements.
And when you realize this iswho you are and just learn to
accept that very lovingly, yeah,I do still take supplements.
Okay, of course, it can hurt,but I also have certain
(32:24):
expectations about what I canaccomplish and how I do that
without burning myself out.
That's I think a very importantmessage.
Vickie (32:33):
And I don't think it's about so many times.
Here's another thing I getfrustrated with in human design,
it turns out, but so many timeswe talk about projectors like
you should be tired all thetime.
It's like you're not called tobe tired, you're called to be
rested.
So, like treasuring thatenergy, really treasuring the
energy that you have and being agood steward of it.
Whereas for me, I'm theopposite end of the spectrum.
(32:56):
I have so much energy thatthere are days that I have to
actually move my body to get ridof energy.
And so instead of me trying tosit at a desk or trying to just
have one project on the go andtake it from start to finish,
that's never gonna happen in mylife.
And now the women that are inmy world, that are in my
containers, they love it when Igo all many gen on them.
(33:17):
I will always be like, okay,I'm sorry, you guys, I have to
bring this up as well and I haveto talk about this.
And they're like, nope, bringit on.
That's what we're here for.
That's why we're here.
Because we chose you because ofthat energy.
And your people are gonnachoose you, and someone else's
people are gonna choose themwhen we actually embrace who we
are.
Don't just accept it.
Freaking love it.
Yuli (33:36):
Another thing you mentioned that um some of the
work you do is around messaging,um, human design messaging.
Can you talk a little bit aboutthat?
Vickie (33:47):
I could talk all day about that.
Um yes.
So I think that's an oftenoverlooked place where human
design could be used more thanit is in true manifesting
generator fashion.
One of my other careers, I'malso a copywriter.
So I I love words, I lovelinguistics.
Everything about writing iswhat I love.
(34:08):
And we've got so muchconditioning around who we are.
And then we try to show uponline, and I will say it's like
trying to show up at your30-year high school reunion
naked and expect you won't bejudged or be afraid of people
judging you.
That's what it feels like to bein the online business
(34:28):
sometimes.
And people are buying all thesetemplates and these formulas
and now ChatGPT prompts and GPTsand all of these things, but
there's deeper work to be done.
There's so much conditioningaround the voice.
You think of all of the timesthat you were told in your life,
especially you with the 4323channel, don't say it like that.
(34:49):
That's too weird.
I don't understand what you'retalking about.
Or maybe you tried to get ananswer in school and you went
about it a completely differentway than anyone else, and you
still got the right answer, butit was wrong somehow because of
the way that you did it withthat particular channel.
I work with a lot of fifth lineprofiles.
Fifth line profiles, I think,have the biggest witch wound of
(35:10):
all of us because they are theheretics.
They are the ones who are hereto tell it like it is at all
costs, let the chips fall wherethey may.
Doesn't mean they're mean,doesn't mean they're witches.
Just means they just have thisgift for seeing it, for seeing
what needs to be fixed andcalling it out.
Well, you picture athree-year-old little girl or a
five-year-old little girl.
My granddaughter is afifth-line profile.
(35:33):
And the number of times thatshe says something, she's also
here to be shocking, and thenumber of times that something
comes out of her mouth.
And I think, because when I wasa kid, it would have been like,
don't you dare talk like that.
But she's actually designed totalk like that.
So when we go back with thework that I do in the messaging,
it's it's not about, I helpso-and-so to do so-and-so
(35:55):
without so-and-so.
It's it's not that statement.
It's not like, yes, we need allof that stuff.
But if we haven't done thedeeper work on actually what are
all those things that we'vebeen told about ourselves,
sometimes, not sometimes, mostof the time, the women that I
work with, they pour out theirhearts on their keyboards and
(36:15):
they're ready to do the post.
And that delete button is theirbest friend in life.
They have got so much inside ofthem that is unsaid.
And so instead of saying whatthey really need to say, what
they really mean to say, theydelete it all and they put up
something inspirational oreducational, because educational
content, if I just keepeducating people and telling
(36:37):
them how to do this or tellingthem this about human design or
this about Reiki or whatever itis, then surely they'll think
I'm smart enough and they'llhire me.
Meanwhile, it's like stuck inyour throat what you really need
to say, what's actually goingto bring your soul fit client to
you, is when you say that.
So that's that's the work thatI do with my people.
Yuli (36:57):
Yes.
I know I'm a lot.
You're all sitting there.
And yeah, it sounds uhincredible.
And I love that youincorporating with human design
is just um I look forward todigging more into your work.
And uh, I know we're runningout of time and have so many
questions because you feel likea wealth of information on the
topic and a lot of importanttopics that I think our
(37:20):
listeners will appreciate aswell.
But I wanted to thank you forbeing here.
And if there's anything elsethat you wish to say is kind of
parting words of wisdom forpeople who are looking to
utilize human design or maybeeven learn themselves.
Vickie (37:36):
I think the biggest thing that I would say is don't
get caught in the trap ofthinking that you have to learn
human design.
Focus on your own design andlive the bits that you learn,
and it'll change your life.
And then if you want to learn,I'm not saying don't ever learn,
but it can be so overwhelmingif you try to learn everything.
(37:57):
But if you just focus on you toget started, that'll give you
enough that you can work with.
Yuli (38:04):
Absolutely.
And we didn't touch one topic,but I think a lot of our
listeners might be curious howthis can be used also in more
like uh physical conditions orphysical challenges, whether
it's chronic disease orinjuries, or maybe you mentioned
women and perimenopause.
(38:24):
So I'm just curious how does itwork with the physical body?
Vickie (38:27):
So there definitely are correlations with the gates to
the physical body, but I'm gonnakeep it like really top level
here, high level, because it'ssomething that everybody can
use.
So generators and manifestinggenerators, let's talk about
sleep because most people don'thave the best sleep in the
world.
So generators and manifestinggenerators have loads of sacral
energy.
Every day they get a new loadof energy.
(38:49):
And this starts very young.
What we do with all people, butgenerators and manifesting
generators, we sit them down ata desk for eight hours and we
don't have them moving theirbodies.
You need to physically moveyour body daily.
If you're a generator ormanifesting generator, you
absolutely have to move thatenergy through your body.
When you don't, you willexperience ADD, ADHD, kind of
(39:11):
unscattered thought patterns.
You could have thyroid issuesbecause the energy doesn't have
anywhere to go.
Because all energy in humandesign, this is really weird,
but all energy in human designis trying to get to the throat
so it can have effects on yourthyroid.
And then you can't sleepbecause you're buzzing.
So I have four grandchildren.
Three of them are generatortypes, and at bedtime, they run
(39:32):
around their open concept house.
Like if you go to their houseat bedtime, it's like you want
to go outside because it iscrazy in there.
And, you know, we sat our kidsdown and had them read books and
all of these things, but that'sthe last thing that generators,
types, manifesting generatorsand generators need.
They need to get their energyout.
And they will say to us, wejust got to get our energy out
before bedtime, Amy.
Perfect that we're teachingthem that because we didn't
(39:55):
learn that.
And then we have this epidemicof people who can't sleep, and
80% of people who are diagnosedwith thyroid conditions are
women and all of the things.
So that's one thing.
A projectors, manifestors,reflectors, completely the
opposite.
You have amplified, taken on,sucked up so much sacral energy
that isn't yours throughout theday that what you want to do is
(40:16):
have about 30 minutes where youcan be in a prone position
before bedtime by yourself andlet all of that sacral energy
dissipate.
This should not be watchingscary movies or having
conversations about money or anyof those things.
It's, you know, maybe reading anice book, maybe having a bath,
laying down in the tub, but youreally need to let that go so
(40:38):
that then you can relax intosleep.
It's also really a benefit forwe call them non-sacral beings,
people who do not have a definedsacral, so projectors,
manifestors, reflectors, tosleep alone so that you're not
being conditioned while yousleep, because then you wake up
and you don't feel like yourselfwhen you're sleeping with
somebody else that'sconditioning you while you
sleep.
So that's just one of thethings.
(40:59):
One more thing that I will sayis if there are any channels, so
a channel is the full linebetween two numbers.
If there are any channelsbetween your spleen center and
your root center, you need liketo sweat daily.
You have to work out daily toget rid of that energy.
There are so many other thingsI could say, but we would be
(41:19):
here all day.
So that's like just tip of theiceberg.
Yuli (41:22):
Well, thank you.
I know we're trying to wrap up,but I just had to ask this
question.
And thank you.
It's an amazing advice.
And I can totally relate towhat you're saying and actually
have like a 30-minute windingdown routine every night that
totally contributes to my sleepscore, skyrocketing.
So confirmed.
Good, good.
Yeah.
(41:43):
Amazing.
Well, thank you for being thisuh wealth of information,
wisdom.
I do hope we inspired some ofour listeners to dig deeper into
human design, at least gettheir own chart, right?
It's easily available online, Ibelieve for free.
And I know on your website Iwas able to just go and and get
one pretty quickly.
So we're gonna put that in theshow notes.
(42:04):
Thank you again.
And we're gonna let people knowagain in the show notes where
to find you and your incredibleservices.
Thank you.
It was fun to be here.
Thank you, Vickie.
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