October 7, 2025 • 50 mins
Reigniting Desire in Midlife with Dr. Diane Mueller: Stress, Hormones & Real-World Intimacy Fixes
Desire doesn’t vanish in midlife—it evolves. In this episode of Asking for a Friend, certified sexologist Dr. Diane Mueller joins host Michele Folan to unpack what really happens to libido, intimacy, and connection as hormones shift, stress piles up, and long-term relationships get comfortable.
We explore the science of midlife desire, from how oxytocin calms cortisol and improves sleep to how vibration therapy and pelvic floor health can ease pain and increase pleasure. You’ll learn the difference between “wanting to want” and true arousal, how testosterone fits into the libido puzzle, and why body image and tissue health deserve as much attention as hormones.
Dr. Mueller introduces her concept of “erotic repair”—a framework that moves intimacy beyond penetration and toward curiosity, communication, and play. Together, we tackle mismatched desire, dopamine boredom, and the single most important habit separating happy couples from disconnected ones: talking specifically about what feels good.
Expect evidence-based tools and real-world scripts you can try tonight—like the Yes/No/Maybe exercise that makes awkward conversations easier. Whether you’re navigating menopause, rebuilding intimacy after stress, or simply craving more connection, this episode delivers honest, science-backed guidance with zero fluff.
Dr. Dian Mueller's book: https://WantToWantIt.com
Free Libido Quiz to get to the root causes of low libido: https://LibidoQuiz.com
Free - Yes, No, Maybe Checklist to bring in novelty: https://MySexDoc.com
Recommended Lubes and products: https://MyLibidoDoc.com/Products
IG: https://instagram.com/myromancedoc
_________________________________________
💌 Have questions about 1:1 health and nutrition coaching or Faster Way? Reach me anytime at mfolanfasterway@gmail.com
✨ For more tips, science-backed strategies, and midlife health inspiration, sign up for my weekly newsletter:
👉 https://michelefolanfasterway.myflodesk.com/i6i44jw4fq
🎤 In addition to coaching, I speak to women’s groups, moderate health panel discussions, and bring experts together for real, evidence-based conversations about midlife health. If you’d like me at your next event, let’s connect!
OsteoCollective osteoporosis resources and community link: https://app.osteocollective.com/invitation?code=BE98G9
Transcripts are created with AI and may not be perfectly accurate.
Disclaimer: This podcast is for general informational purposes only and does not constitute the practice of medicine, nursing, or other professional healthcare services. It is not a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Always seek the advice of your qualified healthcare provider with any questions regarding a medical condition.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
MicheleFolan (00:00):
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We're removing the taboo fromwhat really matters in midlife.
I'm your host, Michele Folan,and this is Asking for a Friend.
Today's episode is about a partof midlife that may be a little
(01:11):
uncomfortable, but it impactsour health, our relationships,
and our sense of self more thanwe realize.
It's sexual wellness.
My guest, Dr.
Diane Mueller, is aboard-certified sexologist,
best-selling author, and thefounder of MyLibido Doc.
She holds dual doctorates,hosts the libido lounge podcast,
(01:32):
and has helped thousands ofpeople rekindle intimacy,
navigate mismatched desire, andreclaim pleasure during the
sometimes tricky midlife years.
Whether you've been feeling ashift in your own libido,
navigating a relationship withmismatched desire, or just
curious about how intimacychanges with age, this
conversation is about breakingdown shame, addressing the
(01:55):
physical and emotionalrealities, and giving you tools
to bring passion and connectionback into your life.
Dr.
Diane Mueller, welcome toAsking for a Friend.
Thank you, Michele.
I'm happy to be here.
So, Diane.
Yes.
I would love to hear a littlebit about your journey.
(02:16):
What drew you into becoming aboard-certified sexologist and
then finding my libido doc?
Dr.DianeMueller (02:24):
It's a multi-part answer, honestly,
Michele, because there werethings that initially drove me
to be interested in studyingsex.
And then there's differentthings that really drove me to
say, well, let me talk about myprivate life and my private
findings publicly.
So the initial thing actuallythat made me very, very
interested in this topic was inmy early 20s, I had I was
(02:48):
struggling with a lot of vulvarpain and went to the doctor,
went to many doctors, and nobodycould give me any insight as to
what was going on.
All the lab tests were normal,great, no diseases.
But then why am I, you know,lying awake every night in this
amazing, horrible pain?
So during this time, I had areally wonderful roommate who
(03:10):
was very open about talkingabout her self-pleasure
practice, which was like very,very shocking to me because I
had never experienced, I'd nevertaken part in self-pleasure.
I was raised where in a kind ofa framework where that was like
bad and wrong and those kind ofthings.
So it was like very shocking tome to hear her tell me about
this.
But one day, after hearing mecomplain about this pain over
(03:32):
and over, she hands me a book.
And this book was BettyDodson's Sex for One.
And just like the title, youknow, a title says it's a book
about self-pleasure and aself-pleasure practice.
And in her amazing research,one of the things Betty talked
about is how many people she wasfinding had pain of a wide
variety of types.
(03:54):
And the pain was going awaywith self-pleasure.
It's not the only thing by anymeans she talks about in that
book, but it was like, it wasone of those moments, right?
Where it's like we readsomething and we feel like it's
written directly for us.
Right.
So this very, very brave night.
I put my um guilt and my shameand my fear aside, you know,
(04:14):
just lying awake in this pain.
I was like, all right, I'mgonna, I'm gonna give this woman
Betty a try, herrecommendations.
And I masturbate it for thefirst time.
Pain went away.
I was like, well, that'sinteresting.
Interesting.
Next day, pain's back, lyingawake, yada yada.
Try it again, pain goes awayagain.
So this happened for, you know,it's like a series of events
(04:37):
several nights in a row.
And after several times, thepain just went away completely.
So this was one of thosemoments.
I feel like as humans, we havethese moments in life sometimes
that are kind of these ahamoments, these pivotal turning
point moments where they make usoftentimes disrupt and kind of
question some of our beliefs andsome of our thinking and some
(04:58):
of our, you know, ways thatmaybe we were raised or beliefs
that we held.
And so this was that type ofmoment for me, where it's like I
started asking myself differentquestions, such as, well, if I
am made in the image of God, Iwas raised very religious.
So I started asking myselfquestions like if I'm in the
image of God, how could I have apart then that is shameful or
bad?
(05:18):
So I really from there startedasking myself questions, started
breaking down the shame aroundand working through that part of
it.
And that really led me to thebelief that I have now that I
talk a lot about in my book,which is that pleasure is not
just about desire, but it'ssomething that we require.
So that was kind of the initialthing.
(05:40):
I didn't take that intobusiness right away.
I the business was almost 20years later when I opened my um
sex practice from that moment.
But that was the first initialevent that made me think, huh,
what is happening here?
I want to study sex more.
MicheleFolan (05:54):
Okay.
I gotta back up.
All right.
First of all, what is it aboutour religious upbringing that
brings on this shame about notjust sex, but the
self-pleasuring part.
Were you Catholic?
Were you raised Catholic?
I was okay, so was I.
(06:16):
Okay.
So I know there we heard a lotabout that in our, you know,
when we were younger and alwaysthought that was so weird.
But when you first said you hadvulvar pain, the first thing I
thought of was that, oh, you hadlichen sclerosis or something
else.
I had no clue that you couldhave vulgar pain that could be
(06:37):
relieved from self-pleasure.
Yeah.
Is that more common now?
Dr.DianeMueller (06:41):
Like people, more people know that.
I don't think a lot of peopleknow this, but this there's
studies now that are coming outon it.
It's like, for example, one ofthe huge reasons why I feel like
every women woman needs to owna vibrator is beyond even
pleasure and understanding herown body.
But now we're seeing studiesthat certain vibrators that are
used three times a week for 12weeks have a five times
(07:05):
reduction in pelvic pain.
So some of some of thesevibrator companies that I love
and that I support, one of thethings I love about some of the
companies I partner with isbecause they are actually doing
studies, not only on pleasure,not only on passion, not only on
relationships and orgasms andall the amazing things that can
come from it, but actuallyreally looking at, hey, how does
(07:26):
this activity actually changepain?
How does it improve pain?
How does it lessen pain?
So really the thing of it backthen, I think was more just like
uh more anecdotal.
But now we're actually seeing,you know, 20, 30 years later,
now we're seeing more and moreresearch that's saying, like,
yeah, this is what's happening.
And you know, I think there'sdifferent reasons for it.
(07:47):
Like anytime we are applyingvibration, simulation to these
areas, we're actually changing afew different things.
We're allowing the signal tothe brain, to the genitals from
a nervous system standpoint toactually be re like reconnected.
So sometimes there can benumbness, right?
Some there, sometimes there canbe pain due to lack of the
(08:10):
brain actually being able totruly sense into this area and
communicate correctly.
Sometimes it's due to pelvicfloor muscles that are holding
on too tight.
Um, sometimes it's due to lackof circulation and the
stimulation can actually help towork in all of these areas to
release muscular tension, tobring more nervous system
connection, to bring more bloodflow to the area.
(08:32):
So we're now we're seeing that,oh, science, mechanism is now,
we're now understanding thisversus before it was purely just
anecdotal.
MicheleFolan (08:40):
Well, I can see where there like vaginal
atrophy, there there would bethat would help, right?
I mean, I hate to say use it orlose it, but it there's a
reality to that.
Yeah, there might, yeah, theremight be.
You know, from yourperspective, how intertwined are
sexual wellness and overallhealth in women then?
Dr.DianeMueller (09:03):
I really feel like they are highly
intertwined.
And it's one of the things thatI'm doing a lot in my work.
Like now that we're there's somuch more effort in medicine on
like the longevity movement andthe anti-aging and biohacking,
all these areas.
And when we study these areason things like, you know,
biohacking, like, you know,finding ways to basically make
(09:24):
your body work optimally forlonger, longer periods.
You know, we look at anythingfrom how do we eat to how do we
sleep to how do we exercise topeptides and injections and all
these different types oftherapies, right?
But one of the things that Ifeel like is being left out of
the conversation so much is theconversation around sex and
(09:46):
pleasure.
And so, just as an example, wetalked so much, right?
This is gonna be very um, verycliche, what I'm about to say.
So, no surprise to everybody,stress impacts us, right?
That's like uh Dr.
Diane.
So, from that standpoint,though, we know that there's
cortisol, right?
That stress hormone that floodsour body.
(10:06):
People talk about it a lot withweight loss.
None of this is probably new.
But what is interesting is ourbrain's master regulator hormone
for cortisol is oxytocin.
Oxytocin is our hormone thatallows it, it lowers cortisol,
it helps to rebalance cortisol,it actually improves sleep.
(10:27):
Oxytocin causes our anxiety togo down, it causes depression to
lower, it even helps to buildbone.
So if you like listen to this,it's like, wow, these are a lot
of the symptoms we go throughwith perimenopause and menopause
for women, and even somewhatfor andropause, that hormone
change for men.
And what's interesting aboutthis is with oxytocin, like, I
(10:48):
don't know, a decade or two ago,there was all of these
conversations around like the20-second hug.
And you give a 20-second hugand you get more oxytocin.
And that's true, but I thinksometimes people hear that and
they're like, well, I can justhave a good long hug and you
know, don't have to worry aboutit, right?
Here's the thing when ourcortisol is raging, when we are
in burnout, when we arestressed, when we're at this
(11:09):
midlife period of life,especially where people are
managing oftentimes not onlyjobs and children, you know, but
the transition of elderlyparents and caregiving on both
ends, it's just it gets sonutty.
Well, oxytocin with a 20-secondhug will raise in the blood by
about 20 to 50 percent.
Sounds pretty cool.
Until we realize that withorgasms, the amount of oxytocin
(11:32):
in our blood raises 200 to 500%,and more if we even learn how
to have multiple orgasms aswomen.
So that's one of the reasonsthat I really say that pleasure
is just not about desire.
It's something we require, isbecause it's a huge, like the
hormones that are released arehuge for regulation of these
(11:53):
things that we're running aroundspending so much time, money,
and effort trying to regulate.
And in many ways, the poweractually lies within.
But we have to learn how totake time in the busyness of all
of the overwhelm of all thethings I mentioned to actually
begin to cultivate our body'sability to produce that.
MicheleFolan (12:11):
All right, my husband will never go for the
20-second hug.
I can just tell you that rightnow.
Dr.DianeMueller (12:17):
And it's a long time, right?
I do this with my girlfriends,and sometimes we'll count.
And it's like usually aroundsecond seven, that's like
usually where that impulse islike, okay, that social impulse
to be like, we've been touchinglong enough, you know, and even
with my girlfriend.
So we'll actually sometimescount, like, okay, are we at
oxytocin levels yet?
Yeah, it's like, honey, I havea headache tonight, but I'll
give you a 20-second hug.
MicheleFolan (12:38):
Right.
Um, yeah, that's not gonnawork.
Exactly.
You've said midlife is apivotal moment for intimacy.
Why do you think it's oftenoverlooked or downplayed?
Dr.DianeMueller (12:51):
Well, I mean, I think there's a lot of things.
I think for a long time, womenunfortunately have been gaslit
and it's still happening.
Like the number of times I talkto somebody who I just can't
even believe this is stillhappening, who will tell their
doctor that, oh, they're goingthrough the change, maybe
they're having hot flashes,feeling a little spacey, you
know, these kind of things.
And their doctor will saysomething like, Well, you just
(13:13):
gotta suck it up, everybody goesthrough it.
Like it's it's I have too manystories to even count of this.
So I do think there's anelement where we still have this
old paradigm from the late 90s,early 2000s of hormones are
bad, and we're still recoveringfrom that poorly reported
research that really scared theheck out of a lot of people,
(13:35):
doctors and and patients alike.
So I think there's a lot ofrepatterning there.
I do think that there's just athis acceptance of like this is
just part of life.
And one of the things, and Ithink as we get into younger
generations, I think this willhopefully start to repair.
But there's this thing thatthat I hear a lot of um Gen Xers
(13:56):
like me, myself, and a lot ofum baby boomers say that we are
just getting older, right?
And that this is supposed tohappen just because we are
getting older.
So I do think there's anelement where we as a society we
oftentimes assume normal andcommon are the same thing.
And if something is likecommon, that aging is not going
(14:20):
well and that these transitionperiods are supposed to be hard.
If it's common, we just assumethat, okay, well, that means
it's normal and that we shouldjust grin and bear it.
And yes, things are supposedto, you know, change.
Like I'm on hormone replacementtherapy.
I know what a hot flash is likeif I um if I come off of it,
all of those things.
(14:41):
And that being said, there arethings that we can do to make
this a beautiful time of lifeand an empowering time of life
and not this hellish, you know,kind of life.
MicheleFolan (14:52):
We're gonna take a quick break.
And when we come back, I dowant to talk a little bit more
about some of those physical andemotional shifts in midlife.
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Okay, we are back.
We talk about hormones a lot,and particularly perimenopause,
menopause.
What are the biggestphysiologic changes that we have
(16:00):
in midlife that impact intimacybesides hormones?
Dr.DianeMueller (16:04):
So there's several.
So from a physical aspect, andit's not going to be only
physical, but from a physicalaspect, hormones, like you said,
stress and the stress hormones,circulation, neurological
problems, pelvic floor problems,those are the kind of the top
five.
But then we have to alsoinclude things like other
inflammatory causes, such aschronic hidden toxins, chronic
(16:27):
hidden infections.
I actually have a really goodresource for people.
So if people go tolibidoquiz.com, they can take my
free quiz and thelibidoquiz.com quiz will give
you a sense of all these mainroot causes, which ones are most
likely involved for you.
And then it will spit out withthat.
(16:47):
You'll get an email that says,hey, take this list of labs.
These are probably labs yourdoctor might not have considered
that are probably important toyou.
So it kind of teaches you thenabout labs you might need and
how to self-advocate.
So that's a really goodresource.
But I want to make sure I speakbeyond the physical.
Because yes, we can have all ofthese things that are happening
(17:10):
oftentimes at midlife, all ofthese imbalances, that sort of
thing.
But there's another realimportant thing, a couple more
real important things.
One is oftentimes when it comesto sex and intimacy, especially
when we've been with ourpartner for many, many years at
this point, we're bored.
You know, there's a real, real,real thing.
(17:31):
And maybe we're not boredintellectually, maybe we're not
bored emotionally, we're notbored mentally.
But it's very, very common thatwhen it comes to sex, that
we've done this exact samething.
It's like imagine your mostfavorite meal, you know, and you
eat the same meal or a slightversion of it for 20 years, it
can be the best meal.
(17:51):
And you can still like, you canstill like innately love this
meal, but you're probably gonnalike want something else, right?
You're probably gonna want adifferent flavor.
I love this analogy.
I'm sorry.
I'm just cracking up.
And we're not taught how totalk about this, right?
Food provides so many greatanalogies.
I'm clearly a foodie because Iuse it all the time in my um
(18:14):
analogy world.
But yeah, it's it's really, itreally makes a huge difference.
And what happens, right, islike we get stuck in these
sexual scripts.
And so the sexual scripts, whenwe've been together for
decades, look a lot, and even ifit's less than a decade, right?
This even happens after acouple of years, where it's like
we kiss in this way, we do thisposition, we maybe do this act,
(18:37):
that act, third act, grandfinale, and we're done.
And you know, usually it's likewhat differs from intimacy
experience to intimacyexperience, is like maybe part
two and part three have likeslightly two or three different
positions they rotate through.
But you know, that's like thedifference between have a ribeye
one day and a, you know, and asirloin the next or whatnot.
(18:57):
It's like these differences arestill so rhythmatic that we're
not creating that novelty, we'renot creating that newness.
And when that happens, ourbrain around desire, our brain
around um that motivationtowards something does not work
chemically.
Like basically, what strive,what creates that desire and
(19:19):
that motivation towardssomething is a level of newness.
And this is not, you know, Iwork, my specialty is in helping
long-term monogamous couplesbring passion back.
So when I say that, I'm nottalking about changing the
partner, but I'm talking abouthow can we change the passion?
How can we change thepositions?
How can we change the thingswe're doing?
(19:40):
How can we change theconversations?
How can we bring toys in?
How can we bring fantasy in?
All these different things sothat we're actually starting to
create different experiences,which allows the brain to crave
things in a different way.
It changes the way that ourbrain actually produces
dopamine, which drivesmotivation back towards the
intimate, you know, intimateexperience.
MicheleFolan (20:02):
All right.
There is one thing that I thinkgets in the way often.
Tell me.
All right.
The the big one is when youhave mismatched desire.
And I know women get blamed forthis most of the time in
relationships, but let's call itout for what it is.
There are many relationshipsout there where the woman has
(20:23):
the desire, wants that intimacy,wants that connection, and it's
the guy that's not being thewilling partner.
So I want to call that outfirst because I often think that
women get dogged with thatlabel, and it's not always the
female.
How do we first get everybodyon the same page?
Dr.DianeMueller (20:45):
Yeah, I have a whole course on this topic
because it's probably the mostcommon topic I um I have come
across to me with uh long-termmonogamous couples.
And you're right, like womenalso oftentimes gets the blame.
It really can go either way.
And one of the first thingsthat I have to say about this is
(21:05):
we have to begin to talk aboutsex.
And the second thing I have tosay about this is we have to
change what we mean when we saysex.
So there's a process that I gothat I take people through
called erotic repair, where welargely take sex off the table
and we just start connectingagain erotically.
One of the biggest things isthat when we are looking at
(21:31):
relationships, when we'relooking at this kind of
conversation, there's manydifferent reasons for low
desire.
So it could be one of thesephysical root causes I talked
about.
So again, to the libido quiz,maybe it's largely as simple as
one of those things.
Although, like we talkedoffline, I do tend to find that
99% of the time it's more thanone root cause.
But that could that could bepart of it, right?
(21:53):
Getting on testosterone, likewe talked about, getting your
hormones looked at, working onyour circulation.
So obviously we want to dothose basic foundational things.
But when it comes to then morethe intimacy, when I say we have
to change the definition ofsex, what I mean by that is, and
and anytime I speak to a liveaudience, one of the things I
(22:14):
often ask is when I say sex,what do you think of?
And everybody largely thinksintercourse or penetration.
Those are the you know wordsthat come popping through a chat
or get yelled at in a room.
So one of the things that canhelp too, because oftentimes if
there is a desire discrepancy,there can be these physical
reasons, but there can also belike for somebody, maybe if it's
(22:36):
a man, maybe he's stressed out,maybe his he's experiencing
some level of erectiledysfunction, maybe he's
embarrassed, he's ashamed, hefeels like he can't provide
pleasure to his partner.
And there's all these likeself-fulfilling prophecies going
on for him.
You know, for a woman, maybeshe's overwhelmed, maybe she has
vaginal dryness, maybe she'sbored, maybe she's not having
(22:57):
orgasms.
Like there's so many differentthings for her.
So if we can start to broadenwhat sex is beyond just
penetration for a time being,and actually broaden it to be
like anything intimate touch.
And we can start to take thepressure off.
And oftentimes when we'rethinking desire mismatch, many
times it's like, well, I'm justnot in the mood for intercourse
(23:18):
for any of these reasons.
But if we can start to say,okay, that's not the only way
we're defining it, yes, we wantto get back to that because that
has a lot of beauty.
But if we start to redefine itand say, like, okay, well, what
areas and start to haveconversations, say like what
areas from a standpoint of touchand sensual intimacy are you
actually available for you, forright, like for right now?
(23:41):
And we can start to say, okay,well, maybe it's intercourse is
hard to be on the table, but youknow, maybe co-masturbation or
maybe playing with vibrators ormay, maybe massages with happy
endings, right?
There's so many different waysthat we could be available for
this.
And with erotic with eroticrepair, we start to take that
pressure off and start to justput that intention back on the
(24:04):
connection.
And then another thing I haveto say about this is when we
look at couples and surveys oncouples of who has said to have
the happiest in theirrelationship with the best um
intimacy experience.
In these surveys, 92% of peoplethat have that state they have
(24:25):
a high, high, high level ofhappiness in their relationship
and in their intimate sexuallife.
92% of them talk about it.
So we have to begin to havethese conversations and we have
to begin to have theseconversations around, like, you
know, what feels good to youright now.
We have to understand ourbodies change, our needs change.
(24:46):
And so for the woman that isdisinterested, many times she
becomes disinterested for all ofthe, you know, physical root
causes we talked about, but alsobecause it's very frequent that
orgasm and her capacity toreach orgasm and the way she
reaches orgasm changesthroughout life.
Yeah.
And maybe what she was likereally, really like having as
(25:09):
like effective early on in therelationship, maybe, you know,
who knows?
Maybe she faked it, happens alot.
Or maybe, maybe it was workingback then and all of a sudden
it's just not working anymore.
And now she's in bed beinglike, well, he gets all the
pleasure, and I'm not reallylike getting any pleasure out of
this.
So why am I, you know, engaged?
So there's a whole nother realmof conversation is beginning to
(25:33):
repair the capacity for orgasm.
MicheleFolan (25:36):
You know, we didn't really talk about this,
but women at this stage of lifearen't always feeling really
confident about their bodies.
And yeah, I'm I'm a healthcoach.
I talk to women all the timeabout their body confidence and
what that means to them.
(25:56):
And I have to think that whenyou talk about root causes, this
is a big one.
How do we, Diane, get womenpast this?
Because uh let's call it outfor what it is.
The guys aren't, you know,looking like they did when they
were 19 either.
So exactly right, right?
(26:18):
But how do we get women to openup and start to embrace their
bodies in a healthier way whenit comes to intimacy?
Dr.DianeMueller (26:28):
I think there's it kind of goes back to the
question around how do weovercome shame.
And because there is a lot ofself-same that comes with this,
right?
And we can go down the soapboxof why that is and culture and
society and the media aroundlike what the perfect woman that
is completely unachievable issupposed to look like.
(26:52):
And there's actually studies onthis.
There's studies that haveconnected body image with, you
know, with sexual desire.
There's studies that haveconnected genital image and how
women in particular, but thishappens for men too, size, for
example, and how genital imagecan actually be connected with
desire.
So how we feel about theseareas about our body, about our
(27:16):
genitals, and if we areexperiencing shame will directly
impact our experience in thebedroom and desire.
And in my book that is comingout, Want to Want It, one of the
things that I talk about inhere is this concept of loving
your body at any size and alsowanting it to be healthy.
(27:38):
Because I do think we have likegone so far with like, you
know, positive body love that weforget that, hey, if something
is out of balance, if we'recarrying 20 extra pounds, there
could be there are signsassociated with that and higher
risk for things like diabetes,for example.
So we want to make sure that weare doing our part to take care
(28:01):
of our body.
But I think uh the way we'vegone wrong, it's like so many
times in life we do these likeeither or types of things around
like, you know, either I'mtotally healthy, you know, or I
have this other, you know, or Iand I totally healthy and I love
my body, or or or or or.
And it's more of an and aroundlike we want to make good
(28:21):
choices, we want to run thelabs, we want to do the things
to say, hey, are thereimbalances in my body that could
be supported to help make meless inflamed and healthier?
And at the same time, really,really work with that body love
at any size.
And one of the best ways I'veseen to work with any like
self-shaming around this or justlike not feeling in one's body
(28:46):
really is any type of slowembodiment practice.
So, like for me, I have foundthe best way to through this is
through dance.
And I've been many sizes in mylife.
I was 50 pounds heavier at onepoint, I was about 40, oh not 40
pounds, I was about 20 poundslighter than I am at one point.
So I've like seen my body inall these different shapes and
(29:07):
sizes and the um the set likeembodied dance of like slow
sensual music.
And for me, the way that I havefound to just find body love is
with myself in a pair oflingerie, with like the music on
and soft lighting, and justallow my body to feel, allow
(29:30):
like the rolls to be where theyare, my hands to run themselves
over my body, and to actuallypractice where the mind checks
out.
So if you're finding yourselflike, oh, this is a position or
this is a movement or this is amovement of your hand over your
body, and all of a sudden yourbrain is like doing the list,
you know, the grocery list, theto-do list, whatever, that's a
(29:53):
real big like sign that that'san area where you're not
embodied, where it does not feelsafe, where you Feel shame, you
feel something else.
And then we want to come backto that area with kindness and
just see how close we can be tothat area, maybe by touching it.
Maybe we're not like, let's saywe're like checking out because
(30:13):
we think our butt's too big,our hips are too big.
So, how close can we actuallymove our hand to that area while
staying in presence with itwhile not being checked out?
So if I move my hand and it'slike, oh, I move it over my hips
and like all of a sudden mybody and my brain is checked
out, moving it back a coupleinches and being like, okay, can
(30:33):
I breathe and stay present andshow love to my body in this
part?
And the more we can stay in ourbody, the more we can start to
say, okay, now I'm present withthe fullness of me versus
shaming.
That checking out is usually asign of self-shame.
But it's really thoseembodiment practice.
It doesn't have to be throughdance.
That's just been my avenue.
(30:54):
It can be through, you know,Pilates, it can be through yoga,
but something that is slowenough that is going to allow
you to like check into your bodyand see: am I judging?
Am I tuning out?
Am I checking out or am I fullypresent?
Here's one other thing.
MicheleFolan (31:10):
And I I've mentioned this on the podcast
before.
So my listeners are probablylike, yeah, yeah, yeah.
But foreplay begins in themorning, begins at breakfast.
It begins over a cup of coffee.
You know, I think we have toget out of our minds that
emotional intimacy starts in thebedroom where it doesn't.
(31:33):
I I feel like, at least in inmy house, that it's really how
we carry ourselves the wholeday.
And, you know, if you had aterse word in the morning with
each other, and then you'reexpecting intimacy in the
evening.
Well, you may not, because ifyou're not communicating and
(31:56):
clearing those things up, it'sgonna really hamper your ability
to get there in the mood.
Dr.DianeMueller (32:03):
Yeah.
I mean, I would even add on tothat and say, like, one of the
things I tell couples in myprogram is foreplay largely
starts the minute the grand actfinishes.
It's like basically everythingin between, right?
Yeah.
And like I just say that likefrom a standpoint of like, I
don't want people to hear thisand be like, well, I don't have
time for that.
Like, that's not what I'mtrying to create here.
(32:24):
But what I am trying to createis like, if we go back to like
that new relationship energy andwhat's happening is like most
people are like naturally inmore of like a flirtatious, you
know, mode with each other.
There is this naturalexcitement for the next time you
see each other.
And that really goes awaylargely when that dopamine
(32:47):
decreases, when we move intogether, when we share keys to
each other's places, when wecombine our lives in these
different ways.
And everything that happensbetween our, you know, our more
sensual intimate moments reallyis an opportunity for foreplay
because what we're doing iswe're actually finding ways to
begin to bring that flirt andthat desire back.
(33:09):
And so I do this a lot.
Like another gift I'll giveyour audience is my yes, no,
maybe checklist, which they canfind at mysdoc.com.
And on this yes, no maybechecklist, I give people ideas
on how to bring novelty back in.
There's over a hundred ideason, hey, have you tried this
thing and have you tried thatthing?
And what's fun about doingstuff like this is when it comes
(33:32):
to this idea around likeforeplay and flirting, when you
do a checklist like this andyou're like, oh yeah, okay,
we're both actually interestedin trying this thing, it
actually gives you material tobring in to that flirt, to that
foreplay of like, you know, wow,honey, like I've been thinking
about, you know, our this thingthat we're gonna do.
I'm really excited about here'swhat's like happening to my
(33:54):
body when I'm thinking about it.
Right.
So it's like it starts tocreate almost this foundation
that we can actually begin tohave foreplay in flirting
because, you know, I don't knowif you run into this with people
that you coach, but like one ofthe things I see when I talk to
people about this, whetherwe're saying, okay, in the
morning or after the you know,grand event, is it's very common
for people to be like, well, Idon't know how to flirt anymore.
(34:16):
I don't know how to do foreplaylike that anymore.
So this is one of the ways Ihave like given like a concrete
tool to people to actually say,okay, here's a resource you can
use.
And once people get, you know,back into the groove,
oftentimes, you know, they don'tneed these um, you know, these
um crutches anymore.
But initially it can be a veryhelp, helpful starting point to
(34:38):
get you kind of on the same teamwith like talking about this
and beginning to flirt again.
MicheleFolan (34:42):
You know, I mentioned to you before we
started recording that I knowcouples, I speak to women all
the time, where they're they'reboth kind of shut down.
So he falls asleep on the couchevery night after a couple
drinks, she goes into the room,her bedroom, she watches
(35:03):
Netflix, falls asleep, you know,they're not they're not
connecting.
I guess that works for somecouples.
Now, I would not enjoy that,but if one of them decides, hey,
this is this is kind of weird.
Like, why are why why is thisour life now?
(35:24):
Can we get them back into whatyou call hot monogamy?
Dr.DianeMueller (35:31):
We can.
I mean, the the thing that istruly essential though is both
people in the relationship needto be willing to take a step
towards that.
So it's just like, you know,it's like couples therapy,
right?
If one person is willing to goand the other person's like
checked out and showing up lateand not really participating,
it's probably not going to work.
(35:51):
So the first step with actuallyreturning to a hot intimate
life or getting a hot intimatelife to begin with and
practicing hot monogamy reallyis both, you know, couples
coming to the table and saying,like, hey, I would like this to
be different.
I would like this to be better.
I love you, I care about you, Icare about our life enough to
(36:12):
invest some time into this.
And we don't have to be on thesame place with how they're
feeling about, you know, theirintimate life, but they both
need to come to the table andsay, hey, I love this person
enough and I want there to bepassion again and I'm willing to
show up for it, just likeanything else.
So it's not really going towork if you have like that one
(36:33):
person you're constantlypulling.
You do to have to have bothpeople willing to say, I want to
invest in this.
MicheleFolan (36:40):
What's one small thing, though, that maybe they
could like take on tonight?
Like what?
So maybe they're not willing togo and in and get help, but
what could they do just tonightto begin to shift the energy?
Dr.DianeMueller (36:57):
One of my first favorite steps for people,
because this is the foundationof how we start talking about
it.
And like I said, like 92% ofpeople of couples that are
having amazing sex are talkingabout it.
So we really need to practicethat muscle.
And the first step with that isactually beginning to talk
(37:18):
about what you love.
Like we need to remember thatanytime that we have a
conversation about sex, thatwhat we see in studies is that
the biggest threat uh to therelationship is the threat to
each individual.
So that means if I'm gonna talkto sex about with my boyfriend,
I'm gonna innatelysubconsciously have a huge
(37:41):
driver to protect myself.
He's gonna have a huge drive toprotect himself.
And so that puts everybody onthe defensive.
And so the way to startbuilding the conversations
around them, this and making itsafe is to start talking about
all the things that you love.
And this can be super, it mightbe awkward the first time you
(38:06):
do this, right?
And the more specific you canbe, the better.
And if you're not having sex,maybe you start with like
something that is, you know,happening in the sensual world.
Maybe it's like the way theyhug you in the morning.
Maybe it's a sweet little sweetsqueeze they give your hand
under the dinner table whenyou're sitting with the kids.
Like any just be very, very,very specific.
(38:28):
And what you're starting to dois you're starting to build this
foundation of like, oh, talkingabout sex and intimacy is safe.
And when I leave talking aboutsex and intimacy, not only am I
not guarding myself, I'mactually feeling awesome because
here I'm hearing about thisamazing way that I'm providing
(38:49):
something to my partner thatfeels so valuable.
So that's one of the firstthings to practice.
Of course, we do want toeventually get to the point
where we're talking to ourpartner and saying, like, hey,
that thing that you do, maybeyou bite my ear in that way.
I used to love it back in 1993,but it's out now, right?
We do want to essentially havethose kind of conversations, but
(39:09):
we need to start with this isthe foundation.
These are the things that areworking really, really well.
So we build that safety and westart to um be able to build
from there.
Well, I can see where theycould get very defensive.
MicheleFolan (39:25):
Yeah.
So if you're like, well, thereason I don't want to have sex
with you is because you do this,this, and this, it it then it's
not that's not going to beproductive.
So we gotta it, I get whatyou're saying.
They also say that when youwhen you do manifesting, that
you you you manifest about thethings that are going right.
Correct.
(39:46):
Not I need this because this isbad, right?
So and and just like that.
Dr.DianeMueller (39:52):
Yeah, no, but I think there's there's a lot of
similarities there.
There is, yeah.
Because the point I was gonnaadd on to that is like just like
with manifesting, it's likesuch a good point you're
bringing up.
Because just like that, whereit's like, oh, you kind of feel
into the abundance, you feelinto the peace, you feel into
whatever you're trying tomanifest, and you feel the
feeling of what you're trying toget, not what you don't want.
(40:13):
Same thing with this.
It's like so often the timewhen we're focused on these
things that are awesome, and ourpartner hears this, you start
to get more of those things.
And the things that are likenot as awesome, sometimes you
don't even have to bring themup.
Like sometimes you still doneed to, like I said, we do need
to talk about those thingseventually.
But sometimes as we are focusedso much on what we love, our
(40:36):
partner starts to do more ofthose things.
And there's just like not eventhinking anymore about that
thing that they were doingthat's maybe not as pleasurable
because you've now retrainedthem so much of, hey, this is
the vibe, this is the state,this is the feeling.
So it's a very, it's a reallygood analogy.
MicheleFolan (40:52):
We talked a little bit about testosterone, and I
think we need to address thisbecause I I think there's some
oh misconceptions about whattestosterone therapy can and
can't do.
Now, from my own experience, Iwill say before I had my
hysterectomy, and I've I'veagain I've shared this with my
listeners and they're probablylike, uh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Uh, but um, I had been onLupron, which totally took my
(41:18):
testosterone and everything elsewith it down to the basement.
And so when they first put meon testosterone therapy, she
just said, So, how are youfeeling?
This was like six weeks after Istarted.
And I said, I feel pretty good.
I said, I actually think myhusband is cute.
I said, That's a good firststep, right?
(41:38):
She said, Yes, it's a good stepthat we're we're making
progress.
But I don't want women to thinkthat going on, you know,
testosterone is gonna solve alltheir problems.
Can you talk a little bit aboutthat?
Dr.DianeMueller (41:51):
Yeah, I think testosterone is incredibly
important.
And there's so many people thatI know when they get on
testosterone, both men and womenalike, that all of a sudden
they get a boost in a lot ofthings, their libido, their
energy, their brain function.
Like, you know, it's prettycool.
The moment I started ontestosterone myself, it was like
(42:13):
automatically able to do apull-up at the gym.
I was like, wow, this ispretty, really cool.
So there's a lot of benefitsfrom it.
But it's also not uncommon,right?
That oftentimes that peoplewill feel an initial impulse or
initial increase in things likelibido.
And then three or four weekslater, all of a sudden it's
like, dang, like that was reallygood.
(42:35):
And now it's gone away.
So anytime we're talking aboutsex drive, libido, anything in
the medical, you know, space, wehave to remember that when
we're truly talking about theroot causes of why something is,
say, an imbalance in the bodyand a change in sex drive, a
change in libido, I wouldclassify as imbalance in the
(42:57):
body, just like any othersymptom.
And so anytime there's animbalance in the body and we're
saying, why?
What are the root causes?
We have to understand thatthere it's really root causes
plural and not root causesingular.
In fact, in the 15 years I'vebeen practicing medicine, I've
never had a single patient withany sort of chronic issue where
(43:18):
there's only been one rootcause.
Never happens.
Like, not saying it couldn't,but it never has.
So, you know, we can say inlike acute medicine, like, oh,
there's one root cause.
For example, you get strepthroat, you know, that's
oftentimes a root cause.
But then we could even say, oh,well, why did I get strep
throat?
Maybe my immune system's down,maybe my microbiome's down,
(43:38):
maybe I'm not eating healthy,maybe I'm not sleeping enough.
So even in that acute realm, wecan say, hey, oftentimes
there's more than one rootcause.
So if we're looking at rootcauses like a piece of a pie,
and when we're talking about lowlibido, and we're saying, okay,
well, one piece of that pie ofroot cause is testosterone.
(44:00):
What's really important tounderstand, and where people
kind of get misdirected, isoftentimes when something like
testosterone works and then allof a sudden it like stops
working, they think, oh, I don'tneed testosterone.
And that's generally not true.
Like we do want to take in, youknow, this is obviously like
talk to your doctor, like yougot to get full medical advice
(44:20):
here.
But think about iftestosterone, if there's six
pieces of your root cause pie,and there's gonna be different
numbers of pie slices foreverybody's scenario.
But if there's six pieces ofpie, each representing one root
cause, and testosterone is oneof them, if you don't address
that piece of the pie, you'renot gonna be functioning
holistically, wholly.
So if you leave it out, it'snot gonna, your body's not gonna
(44:42):
be working fully.
But if you only address that,you're also not gonna be working
fully.
So if you start takingtestosterone and you notice,
like, wow, you feel somethinggreat and you're getting a
change, great.
Now you know that is one pieceof the pie and it's an important
piece.
It doesn't mean you should takethat piece out.
It just means that, hey, ifyou're like, hey, my libido
(45:04):
hasn't turned back on fully, youneed to figure out what these
other pieces are.
And they could be some of theseother things that we talked
about at my libido quiz atlibidoquiz.com.
Could be the novelty, could bethe change of orgasm, could be
the change of feeling, could belike you mentioned earlier, that
emotional thing that happenedduring early in the day and it
was never resolved, and it'sfestering and this happens a
(45:27):
lot, and we're just feeling allthese micro traumas continually.
There are so many differentpieces of the pie, but that's
how we need to look at it islike many pieces of the libido
pie, and testosterone is animportant piece, but not the
whole story.
MicheleFolan (45:40):
Yeah.
And I appreciate you reallydigging into that.
That was that was really good.
Um, just because I don't wantpeople to think that that's
gonna solve all your becausethere's the physical and then
there's the emotional, and thenuh it's complicated, it's messy.
So yeah, Diane, you should talkabout your podcast.
Dr.DianeMueller (46:01):
Oh, I'd love to.
Yeah, you guys can all find meon any podcast platform.
My podcast is called LibidoLounge, and really we explore
mental, emotional, physical,inter-relational communication
techniques, novelty, boredom,orgasms, and more.
And I spend on that show, Iinterview sex spirit and
(46:23):
therapists and all sorts ofdifferent experts in the
hormone, in the wellness, in thehealth space, all over the
world.
That's exciting.
That's really good stuff.
Yeah, great.
And then your book.
My book is called Want to WantIt.
So right now, I'm not sure whenthis episode is coming out, but
right now, as of today, whenwe're filming this, this is on
(46:44):
um pre-release.
So you can order it now.
It comes, the book comes outofficially on November 3rd.
And so I'm giving all sorts ofbonuses by for the pre-release.
I'm getting also giving allsorts of bonuses for people that
buy it right around the time ofrelease and leave me a review.
So lots of ways to get freeaccess to a lot of my courses
(47:05):
and material.
I have tons of partners, um, Ithink close to eight different
partners who have given me freecontent from there that are
sexologists as well, that havegiven me content to also gift
people as well.
So it's a really great way ofgetting additional bonuses on
how to heal from desiremismatch, on how to help your
hormones, and so much more.
MicheleFolan (47:26):
You know what else we should do is for the show
notes, if so, I'll put all thatin the show notes, but I want to
make sure too that if there'sany sex toys or little aids that
would be helpful that you lovethat are, you know, tried true
and tested, that maybe we couldput some links to those also in
(47:48):
the show notes.
Dr.DianeMueller (47:49):
I'll give you my product link page because for
anything that I recommend, um,I always like to do two things.
One, test it myself.
And then two, as much aspossible, get discount codes for
everybody.
So I can give you a page whereI have like discount codes and
everything.
Cause like you have likethere's a lot of um, there's a
lot of products out there thatare like toxic for the vagina or
(48:11):
lubes that are like reallysticky and gross.
So I do like to um test it aswell as give um coupon codes.
So I can give you the linkwhere people can find great
coupon codes and that sort ofthing too.
MicheleFolan (48:22):
You know, you brought up lube.
And I I won't get on my soapboxabout women using vaginal
estrogen, but you're not evengiving yourself a chance if you
don't get yourself some vaginalestrogen.
It's very, very helpful.
And some good lube because uhyou gotta have a good
environment there.
And it's just yeah.
Dr.DianeMueller (48:43):
And even testosterone applied to the
vulva, a lot of people are notdoing vulva vir application of
testosterone creams, but eventestosterone cream can also
really help with lubrication.
I also really encourage the,you know, the vaginal estrogen
as well.
But it's good for women to knowthat testosterone can be
helpful too, and that can be agreat place to apply it as well,
(49:03):
is on the vulva.
MicheleFolan (49:04):
Yep, I've heard that too.
Yep.
So what is one of your ownself-care non-negotiables that
keeps you grounded and connectedbecause you're a very busy
person?
Dr.DianeMueller (49:18):
Um, as far as self-care, a few different
things.
One, one of the biggest thingsis I wake up and I don't
immediately go on my phone.
I wake up and I do meditation,visualization.
There's, I don't have like aperfect morning routine.
I don't really believepersonally that there has to be
this perfect morning routine.
But what I do believe is that,you know, just like you're
(49:40):
talking about manifestation,that my day is created out of
the state that I'm in.
And the more I can get myselfinto the um, into the internal
state where I'm going to enjoymy days and that I'm creating
internally versus letting theworld and the outside world
dictate how I feel, that isprobably one of the most
(50:02):
profound self-care things that Ihave done in my life.
Oh, that's perfect.
MicheleFolan (50:07):
This is a great way to wrap it up.
Dr.
Diane Mueller, thank you somuch for being here today.
Thank you, Michele.
Thank you for listening.
Please rate and review thepodcast where you listen.
And if you'd like to join theAsking for a Friend community,
click on the link in the shownotes to sign up for my weekly
newsletter where I share midlifewellness and fitness tips,
(50:28):
insights, my favorite finds, andrecipes.
Are you tired of quick fixes that never last?
I've got something new for you.
It's called the 21-daymetabolism reset, and it's
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(00:23):
harder, so you can see resultsthat actually last.
And here's the best part it'sonly $99 to join.
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So if you've been waiting forthe right time, this is it.
Click the link in the shownotes.
And if you prefer one-on-onecoaching, I have options for you
(00:45):
too.
Health, wellness, fitness, andeverything in between.
We're removing the taboo fromwhat really matters in midlife.
I'm your host, Michele Folan,and this is Asking for a Friend.
Today's episode is about a partof midlife that may be a little
(01:11):
uncomfortable, but it impactsour health, our relationships,
and our sense of self more thanwe realize.
It's sexual wellness.
My guest, Dr.
Diane Mueller, is aboard-certified sexologist,
best-selling author, and thefounder of MyLibido Doc.
She holds dual doctorates,hosts the libido lounge podcast,
(01:32):
and has helped thousands ofpeople rekindle intimacy,
navigate mismatched desire, andreclaim pleasure during the
sometimes tricky midlife years.
Whether you've been feeling ashift in your own libido,
navigating a relationship withmismatched desire, or just
curious about how intimacychanges with age, this
conversation is about breakingdown shame, addressing the
(01:55):
physical and emotionalrealities, and giving you tools
to bring passion and connectionback into your life.
Dr.
Diane Mueller, welcome toAsking for a Friend.
Thank you, Michele.
I'm happy to be here.
So, Diane.
Yes.
I would love to hear a littlebit about your journey.
(02:16):
What drew you into becoming aboard-certified sexologist and
then finding my libido doc?
Dr.DianeMueller (02:24):
It's a multi-part answer, honestly,
Michele, because there werethings that initially drove me
to be interested in studyingsex.
And then there's differentthings that really drove me to
say, well, let me talk about myprivate life and my private
findings publicly.
So the initial thing actuallythat made me very, very
interested in this topic was inmy early 20s, I had I was
(02:48):
struggling with a lot of vulvarpain and went to the doctor,
went to many doctors, and nobodycould give me any insight as to
what was going on.
All the lab tests were normal,great, no diseases.
But then why am I, you know,lying awake every night in this
amazing, horrible pain?
So during this time, I had areally wonderful roommate who
(03:10):
was very open about talkingabout her self-pleasure
practice, which was like very,very shocking to me because I
had never experienced, I'd nevertaken part in self-pleasure.
I was raised where in a kind ofa framework where that was like
bad and wrong and those kind ofthings.
So it was like very shocking tome to hear her tell me about
this.
But one day, after hearing mecomplain about this pain over
(03:32):
and over, she hands me a book.
And this book was BettyDodson's Sex for One.
And just like the title, youknow, a title says it's a book
about self-pleasure and aself-pleasure practice.
And in her amazing research,one of the things Betty talked
about is how many people she wasfinding had pain of a wide
variety of types.
(03:54):
And the pain was going awaywith self-pleasure.
It's not the only thing by anymeans she talks about in that
book, but it was like, it wasone of those moments, right?
Where it's like we readsomething and we feel like it's
written directly for us.
Right.
So this very, very brave night.
I put my um guilt and my shameand my fear aside, you know,
(04:14):
just lying awake in this pain.
I was like, all right, I'mgonna, I'm gonna give this woman
Betty a try, herrecommendations.
And I masturbate it for thefirst time.
Pain went away.
I was like, well, that'sinteresting.
Interesting.
Next day, pain's back, lyingawake, yada yada.
Try it again, pain goes awayagain.
So this happened for, you know,it's like a series of events
(04:37):
several nights in a row.
And after several times, thepain just went away completely.
So this was one of thosemoments.
I feel like as humans, we havethese moments in life sometimes
that are kind of these ahamoments, these pivotal turning
point moments where they make usoftentimes disrupt and kind of
question some of our beliefs andsome of our thinking and some
(04:58):
of our, you know, ways thatmaybe we were raised or beliefs
that we held.
And so this was that type ofmoment for me, where it's like I
started asking myself differentquestions, such as, well, if I
am made in the image of God, Iwas raised very religious.
So I started asking myselfquestions like if I'm in the
image of God, how could I have apart then that is shameful or
bad?
(05:18):
So I really from there startedasking myself questions, started
breaking down the shame aroundand working through that part of
it.
And that really led me to thebelief that I have now that I
talk a lot about in my book,which is that pleasure is not
just about desire, but it'ssomething that we require.
So that was kind of the initialthing.
(05:40):
I didn't take that intobusiness right away.
I the business was almost 20years later when I opened my um
sex practice from that moment.
But that was the first initialevent that made me think, huh,
what is happening here?
I want to study sex more.
MicheleFolan (05:54):
Okay.
I gotta back up.
All right.
First of all, what is it aboutour religious upbringing that
brings on this shame about notjust sex, but the
self-pleasuring part.
Were you Catholic?
Were you raised Catholic?
I was okay, so was I.
(06:16):
Okay.
So I know there we heard a lotabout that in our, you know,
when we were younger and alwaysthought that was so weird.
But when you first said you hadvulvar pain, the first thing I
thought of was that, oh, you hadlichen sclerosis or something
else.
I had no clue that you couldhave vulgar pain that could be
(06:37):
relieved from self-pleasure.
Yeah.
Is that more common now?
Dr.DianeMueller (06:41):
Like people, more people know that.
I don't think a lot of peopleknow this, but this there's
studies now that are coming outon it.
It's like, for example, one ofthe huge reasons why I feel like
every women woman needs to owna vibrator is beyond even
pleasure and understanding herown body.
But now we're seeing studiesthat certain vibrators that are
used three times a week for 12weeks have a five times
(07:05):
reduction in pelvic pain.
So some of some of thesevibrator companies that I love
and that I support, one of thethings I love about some of the
companies I partner with isbecause they are actually doing
studies, not only on pleasure,not only on passion, not only on
relationships and orgasms andall the amazing things that can
come from it, but actuallyreally looking at, hey, how does
(07:26):
this activity actually changepain?
How does it improve pain?
How does it lessen pain?
So really the thing of it backthen, I think was more just like
uh more anecdotal.
But now we're actually seeing,you know, 20, 30 years later,
now we're seeing more and moreresearch that's saying, like,
yeah, this is what's happening.
And you know, I think there'sdifferent reasons for it.
(07:47):
Like anytime we are applyingvibration, simulation to these
areas, we're actually changing afew different things.
We're allowing the signal tothe brain, to the genitals from
a nervous system standpoint toactually be re like reconnected.
So sometimes there can benumbness, right?
Some there, sometimes there canbe pain due to lack of the
(08:10):
brain actually being able totruly sense into this area and
communicate correctly.
Sometimes it's due to pelvicfloor muscles that are holding
on too tight.
Um, sometimes it's due to lackof circulation and the
stimulation can actually help towork in all of these areas to
release muscular tension, tobring more nervous system
connection, to bring more bloodflow to the area.
(08:32):
So we're now we're seeing that,oh, science, mechanism is now,
we're now understanding thisversus before it was purely just
anecdotal.
MicheleFolan (08:40):
Well, I can see where there like vaginal
atrophy, there there would bethat would help, right?
I mean, I hate to say use it orlose it, but it there's a
reality to that.
Yeah, there might, yeah, theremight be.
You know, from yourperspective, how intertwined are
sexual wellness and overallhealth in women then?
Dr.DianeMueller (09:03):
I really feel like they are highly
intertwined.
And it's one of the things thatI'm doing a lot in my work.
Like now that we're there's somuch more effort in medicine on
like the longevity movement andthe anti-aging and biohacking,
all these areas.
And when we study these areason things like, you know,
biohacking, like, you know,finding ways to basically make
(09:24):
your body work optimally forlonger, longer periods.
You know, we look at anythingfrom how do we eat to how do we
sleep to how do we exercise topeptides and injections and all
these different types oftherapies, right?
But one of the things that Ifeel like is being left out of
the conversation so much is theconversation around sex and
(09:46):
pleasure.
And so, just as an example, wetalked so much, right?
This is gonna be very um, verycliche, what I'm about to say.
So, no surprise to everybody,stress impacts us, right?
That's like uh Dr.
Diane.
So, from that standpoint,though, we know that there's
cortisol, right?
That stress hormone that floodsour body.
(10:06):
People talk about it a lot withweight loss.
None of this is probably new.
But what is interesting is ourbrain's master regulator hormone
for cortisol is oxytocin.
Oxytocin is our hormone thatallows it, it lowers cortisol,
it helps to rebalance cortisol,it actually improves sleep.
(10:27):
Oxytocin causes our anxiety togo down, it causes depression to
lower, it even helps to buildbone.
So if you like listen to this,it's like, wow, these are a lot
of the symptoms we go throughwith perimenopause and menopause
for women, and even somewhatfor andropause, that hormone
change for men.
And what's interesting aboutthis is with oxytocin, like, I
(10:48):
don't know, a decade or two ago,there was all of these
conversations around like the20-second hug.
And you give a 20-second hugand you get more oxytocin.
And that's true, but I thinksometimes people hear that and
they're like, well, I can justhave a good long hug and you
know, don't have to worry aboutit, right?
Here's the thing when ourcortisol is raging, when we are
in burnout, when we arestressed, when we're at this
(11:09):
midlife period of life,especially where people are
managing oftentimes not onlyjobs and children, you know, but
the transition of elderlyparents and caregiving on both
ends, it's just it gets sonutty.
Well, oxytocin with a 20-secondhug will raise in the blood by
about 20 to 50 percent.
Sounds pretty cool.
Until we realize that withorgasms, the amount of oxytocin
(11:32):
in our blood raises 200 to 500%,and more if we even learn how
to have multiple orgasms aswomen.
So that's one of the reasonsthat I really say that pleasure
is just not about desire.
It's something we require, isbecause it's a huge, like the
hormones that are released arehuge for regulation of these
(11:53):
things that we're running aroundspending so much time, money,
and effort trying to regulate.
And in many ways, the poweractually lies within.
But we have to learn how totake time in the busyness of all
of the overwhelm of all thethings I mentioned to actually
begin to cultivate our body'sability to produce that.
MicheleFolan (12:11):
All right, my husband will never go for the
20-second hug.
I can just tell you that rightnow.
Dr.DianeMueller (12:17):
And it's a long time, right?
I do this with my girlfriends,and sometimes we'll count.
And it's like usually aroundsecond seven, that's like
usually where that impulse islike, okay, that social impulse
to be like, we've been touchinglong enough, you know, and even
with my girlfriend.
So we'll actually sometimescount, like, okay, are we at
oxytocin levels yet?
Yeah, it's like, honey, I havea headache tonight, but I'll
give you a 20-second hug.
MicheleFolan (12:38):
Right.
Um, yeah, that's not gonnawork.
Exactly.
You've said midlife is apivotal moment for intimacy.
Why do you think it's oftenoverlooked or downplayed?
Dr.DianeMueller (12:51):
Well, I mean, I think there's a lot of things.
I think for a long time, womenunfortunately have been gaslit
and it's still happening.
Like the number of times I talkto somebody who I just can't
even believe this is stillhappening, who will tell their
doctor that, oh, they're goingthrough the change, maybe
they're having hot flashes,feeling a little spacey, you
know, these kind of things.
And their doctor will saysomething like, Well, you just
(13:13):
gotta suck it up, everybody goesthrough it.
Like it's it's I have too manystories to even count of this.
So I do think there's anelement where we still have this
old paradigm from the late 90s,early 2000s of hormones are
bad, and we're still recoveringfrom that poorly reported
research that really scared theheck out of a lot of people,
(13:35):
doctors and and patients alike.
So I think there's a lot ofrepatterning there.
I do think that there's just athis acceptance of like this is
just part of life.
And one of the things, and Ithink as we get into younger
generations, I think this willhopefully start to repair.
But there's this thing thatthat I hear a lot of um Gen Xers
(13:56):
like me, myself, and a lot ofum baby boomers say that we are
just getting older, right?
And that this is supposed tohappen just because we are
getting older.
So I do think there's anelement where we as a society we
oftentimes assume normal andcommon are the same thing.
And if something is likecommon, that aging is not going
(14:20):
well and that these transitionperiods are supposed to be hard.
If it's common, we just assumethat, okay, well, that means
it's normal and that we shouldjust grin and bear it.
And yes, things are supposedto, you know, change.
Like I'm on hormone replacementtherapy.
I know what a hot flash is likeif I um if I come off of it,
all of those things.
(14:41):
And that being said, there arethings that we can do to make
this a beautiful time of lifeand an empowering time of life
and not this hellish, you know,kind of life.
MicheleFolan (14:52):
We're gonna take a quick break.
And when we come back, I dowant to talk a little bit more
about some of those physical andemotional shifts in midlife.
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Okay, we are back.
We talk about hormones a lot,and particularly perimenopause,
menopause.
What are the biggestphysiologic changes that we have
(16:00):
in midlife that impact intimacybesides hormones?
Dr.DianeMueller (16:04):
So there's several.
So from a physical aspect, andit's not going to be only
physical, but from a physicalaspect, hormones, like you said,
stress and the stress hormones,circulation, neurological
problems, pelvic floor problems,those are the kind of the top
five.
But then we have to alsoinclude things like other
inflammatory causes, such aschronic hidden toxins, chronic
(16:27):
hidden infections.
I actually have a really goodresource for people.
So if people go tolibidoquiz.com, they can take my
free quiz and thelibidoquiz.com quiz will give
you a sense of all these mainroot causes, which ones are most
likely involved for you.
And then it will spit out withthat.
(16:47):
You'll get an email that says,hey, take this list of labs.
These are probably labs yourdoctor might not have considered
that are probably important toyou.
So it kind of teaches you thenabout labs you might need and
how to self-advocate.
So that's a really goodresource.
But I want to make sure I speakbeyond the physical.
Because yes, we can have all ofthese things that are happening
(17:10):
oftentimes at midlife, all ofthese imbalances, that sort of
thing.
But there's another realimportant thing, a couple more
real important things.
One is oftentimes when it comesto sex and intimacy, especially
when we've been with ourpartner for many, many years at
this point, we're bored.
You know, there's a real, real,real thing.
(17:31):
And maybe we're not boredintellectually, maybe we're not
bored emotionally, we're notbored mentally.
But it's very, very common thatwhen it comes to sex, that
we've done this exact samething.
It's like imagine your mostfavorite meal, you know, and you
eat the same meal or a slightversion of it for 20 years, it
can be the best meal.
(17:51):
And you can still like, you canstill like innately love this
meal, but you're probably gonnalike want something else, right?
You're probably gonna want adifferent flavor.
I love this analogy.
I'm sorry.
I'm just cracking up.
And we're not taught how totalk about this, right?
Food provides so many greatanalogies.
I'm clearly a foodie because Iuse it all the time in my um
(18:14):
analogy world.
But yeah, it's it's really, itreally makes a huge difference.
And what happens, right, islike we get stuck in these
sexual scripts.
And so the sexual scripts, whenwe've been together for
decades, look a lot, and even ifit's less than a decade, right?
This even happens after acouple of years, where it's like
we kiss in this way, we do thisposition, we maybe do this act,
(18:37):
that act, third act, grandfinale, and we're done.
And you know, usually it's likewhat differs from intimacy
experience to intimacyexperience, is like maybe part
two and part three have likeslightly two or three different
positions they rotate through.
But you know, that's like thedifference between have a ribeye
one day and a, you know, and asirloin the next or whatnot.
(18:57):
It's like these differences arestill so rhythmatic that we're
not creating that novelty, we'renot creating that newness.
And when that happens, ourbrain around desire, our brain
around um that motivationtowards something does not work
chemically.
Like basically, what strive,what creates that desire and
(19:19):
that motivation towardssomething is a level of newness.
And this is not, you know, Iwork, my specialty is in helping
long-term monogamous couplesbring passion back.
So when I say that, I'm nottalking about changing the
partner, but I'm talking abouthow can we change the passion?
How can we change thepositions?
How can we change the thingswe're doing?
(19:40):
How can we change theconversations?
How can we bring toys in?
How can we bring fantasy in?
All these different things sothat we're actually starting to
create different experiences,which allows the brain to crave
things in a different way.
It changes the way that ourbrain actually produces
dopamine, which drivesmotivation back towards the
intimate, you know, intimateexperience.
MicheleFolan (20:02):
All right.
There is one thing that I thinkgets in the way often.
Tell me.
All right.
The the big one is when youhave mismatched desire.
And I know women get blamed forthis most of the time in
relationships, but let's call itout for what it is.
There are many relationshipsout there where the woman has
(20:23):
the desire, wants that intimacy,wants that connection, and it's
the guy that's not being thewilling partner.
So I want to call that outfirst because I often think that
women get dogged with thatlabel, and it's not always the
female.
How do we first get everybodyon the same page?
Dr.DianeMueller (20:45):
Yeah, I have a whole course on this topic
because it's probably the mostcommon topic I um I have come
across to me with uh long-termmonogamous couples.
And you're right, like womenalso oftentimes gets the blame.
It really can go either way.
And one of the first thingsthat I have to say about this is
(21:05):
we have to begin to talk aboutsex.
And the second thing I have tosay about this is we have to
change what we mean when we saysex.
So there's a process that I gothat I take people through
called erotic repair, where welargely take sex off the table
and we just start connectingagain erotically.
One of the biggest things isthat when we are looking at
(21:31):
relationships, when we'relooking at this kind of
conversation, there's manydifferent reasons for low
desire.
So it could be one of thesephysical root causes I talked
about.
So again, to the libido quiz,maybe it's largely as simple as
one of those things.
Although, like we talkedoffline, I do tend to find that
99% of the time it's more thanone root cause.
But that could that could bepart of it, right?
(21:53):
Getting on testosterone, likewe talked about, getting your
hormones looked at, working onyour circulation.
So obviously we want to dothose basic foundational things.
But when it comes to then morethe intimacy, when I say we have
to change the definition ofsex, what I mean by that is, and
and anytime I speak to a liveaudience, one of the things I
(22:14):
often ask is when I say sex,what do you think of?
And everybody largely thinksintercourse or penetration.
Those are the you know wordsthat come popping through a chat
or get yelled at in a room.
So one of the things that canhelp too, because oftentimes if
there is a desire discrepancy,there can be these physical
reasons, but there can also belike for somebody, maybe if it's
(22:36):
a man, maybe he's stressed out,maybe his he's experiencing
some level of erectiledysfunction, maybe he's
embarrassed, he's ashamed, hefeels like he can't provide
pleasure to his partner.
And there's all these likeself-fulfilling prophecies going
on for him.
You know, for a woman, maybeshe's overwhelmed, maybe she has
vaginal dryness, maybe she'sbored, maybe she's not having
(22:57):
orgasms.
Like there's so many differentthings for her.
So if we can start to broadenwhat sex is beyond just
penetration for a time being,and actually broaden it to be
like anything intimate touch.
And we can start to take thepressure off.
And oftentimes when we'rethinking desire mismatch, many
times it's like, well, I'm justnot in the mood for intercourse
(23:18):
for any of these reasons.
But if we can start to say,okay, that's not the only way
we're defining it, yes, we wantto get back to that because that
has a lot of beauty.
But if we start to redefine itand say, like, okay, well, what
areas and start to haveconversations, say like what
areas from a standpoint of touchand sensual intimacy are you
actually available for you, forright, like for right now?
(23:41):
And we can start to say, okay,well, maybe it's intercourse is
hard to be on the table, but youknow, maybe co-masturbation or
maybe playing with vibrators ormay, maybe massages with happy
endings, right?
There's so many different waysthat we could be available for
this.
And with erotic with eroticrepair, we start to take that
pressure off and start to justput that intention back on the
(24:04):
connection.
And then another thing I haveto say about this is when we
look at couples and surveys oncouples of who has said to have
the happiest in theirrelationship with the best um
intimacy experience.
In these surveys, 92% of peoplethat have that state they have
(24:25):
a high, high, high level ofhappiness in their relationship
and in their intimate sexuallife.
92% of them talk about it.
So we have to begin to havethese conversations and we have
to begin to have theseconversations around, like, you
know, what feels good to youright now.
We have to understand ourbodies change, our needs change.
(24:46):
And so for the woman that isdisinterested, many times she
becomes disinterested for all ofthe, you know, physical root
causes we talked about, but alsobecause it's very frequent that
orgasm and her capacity toreach orgasm and the way she
reaches orgasm changesthroughout life.
Yeah.
And maybe what she was likereally, really like having as
(25:09):
like effective early on in therelationship, maybe, you know,
who knows?
Maybe she faked it, happens alot.
Or maybe, maybe it was workingback then and all of a sudden
it's just not working anymore.
And now she's in bed beinglike, well, he gets all the
pleasure, and I'm not reallylike getting any pleasure out of
this.
So why am I, you know, engaged?
So there's a whole nother realmof conversation is beginning to
(25:33):
repair the capacity for orgasm.
MicheleFolan (25:36):
You know, we didn't really talk about this,
but women at this stage of lifearen't always feeling really
confident about their bodies.
And yeah, I'm I'm a healthcoach.
I talk to women all the timeabout their body confidence and
what that means to them.
(25:56):
And I have to think that whenyou talk about root causes, this
is a big one.
How do we, Diane, get womenpast this?
Because uh let's call it outfor what it is.
The guys aren't, you know,looking like they did when they
were 19 either.
So exactly right, right?
(26:18):
But how do we get women to openup and start to embrace their
bodies in a healthier way whenit comes to intimacy?
Dr.DianeMueller (26:28):
I think there's it kind of goes back to the
question around how do weovercome shame.
And because there is a lot ofself-same that comes with this,
right?
And we can go down the soapboxof why that is and culture and
society and the media aroundlike what the perfect woman that
is completely unachievable issupposed to look like.
(26:52):
And there's actually studies onthis.
There's studies that haveconnected body image with, you
know, with sexual desire.
There's studies that haveconnected genital image and how
women in particular, but thishappens for men too, size, for
example, and how genital imagecan actually be connected with
desire.
So how we feel about theseareas about our body, about our
(27:16):
genitals, and if we areexperiencing shame will directly
impact our experience in thebedroom and desire.
And in my book that is comingout, Want to Want It, one of the
things that I talk about inhere is this concept of loving
your body at any size and alsowanting it to be healthy.
(27:38):
Because I do think we have likegone so far with like, you
know, positive body love that weforget that, hey, if something
is out of balance, if we'recarrying 20 extra pounds, there
could be there are signsassociated with that and higher
risk for things like diabetes,for example.
So we want to make sure that weare doing our part to take care
(28:01):
of our body.
But I think uh the way we'vegone wrong, it's like so many
times in life we do these likeeither or types of things around
like, you know, either I'mtotally healthy, you know, or I
have this other, you know, or Iand I totally healthy and I love
my body, or or or or or.
And it's more of an and aroundlike we want to make good
(28:21):
choices, we want to run thelabs, we want to do the things
to say, hey, are thereimbalances in my body that could
be supported to help make meless inflamed and healthier?
And at the same time, really,really work with that body love
at any size.
And one of the best ways I'veseen to work with any like
self-shaming around this or justlike not feeling in one's body
(28:46):
really is any type of slowembodiment practice.
So, like for me, I have foundthe best way to through this is
through dance.
And I've been many sizes in mylife.
I was 50 pounds heavier at onepoint, I was about 40, oh not 40
pounds, I was about 20 poundslighter than I am at one point.
So I've like seen my body inall these different shapes and
(29:07):
sizes and the um the set likeembodied dance of like slow
sensual music.
And for me, the way that I havefound to just find body love is
with myself in a pair oflingerie, with like the music on
and soft lighting, and justallow my body to feel, allow
(29:30):
like the rolls to be where theyare, my hands to run themselves
over my body, and to actuallypractice where the mind checks
out.
So if you're finding yourselflike, oh, this is a position or
this is a movement or this is amovement of your hand over your
body, and all of a sudden yourbrain is like doing the list,
you know, the grocery list, theto-do list, whatever, that's a
(29:53):
real big like sign that that'san area where you're not
embodied, where it does not feelsafe, where you Feel shame, you
feel something else.
And then we want to come backto that area with kindness and
just see how close we can be tothat area, maybe by touching it.
Maybe we're not like, let's saywe're like checking out because
(30:13):
we think our butt's too big,our hips are too big.
So, how close can we actuallymove our hand to that area while
staying in presence with itwhile not being checked out?
So if I move my hand and it'slike, oh, I move it over my hips
and like all of a sudden mybody and my brain is checked
out, moving it back a coupleinches and being like, okay, can
(30:33):
I breathe and stay present andshow love to my body in this
part?
And the more we can stay in ourbody, the more we can start to
say, okay, now I'm present withthe fullness of me versus
shaming.
That checking out is usually asign of self-shame.
But it's really thoseembodiment practice.
It doesn't have to be throughdance.
That's just been my avenue.
(30:54):
It can be through, you know,Pilates, it can be through yoga,
but something that is slowenough that is going to allow
you to like check into your bodyand see: am I judging?
Am I tuning out?
Am I checking out or am I fullypresent?
Here's one other thing.
MicheleFolan (31:10):
And I I've mentioned this on the podcast
before.
So my listeners are probablylike, yeah, yeah, yeah.
But foreplay begins in themorning, begins at breakfast.
It begins over a cup of coffee.
You know, I think we have toget out of our minds that
emotional intimacy starts in thebedroom where it doesn't.
(31:33):
I I feel like, at least in inmy house, that it's really how
we carry ourselves the wholeday.
And, you know, if you had aterse word in the morning with
each other, and then you'reexpecting intimacy in the
evening.
Well, you may not, because ifyou're not communicating and
(31:56):
clearing those things up, it'sgonna really hamper your ability
to get there in the mood.
Dr.DianeMueller (32:03):
Yeah.
I mean, I would even add on tothat and say, like, one of the
things I tell couples in myprogram is foreplay largely
starts the minute the grand actfinishes.
It's like basically everythingin between, right?
Yeah.
And like I just say that likefrom a standpoint of like, I
don't want people to hear thisand be like, well, I don't have
time for that.
Like, that's not what I'mtrying to create here.
(32:24):
But what I am trying to createis like, if we go back to like
that new relationship energy andwhat's happening is like most
people are like naturally inmore of like a flirtatious, you
know, mode with each other.
There is this naturalexcitement for the next time you
see each other.
And that really goes awaylargely when that dopamine
(32:47):
decreases, when we move intogether, when we share keys to
each other's places, when wecombine our lives in these
different ways.
And everything that happensbetween our, you know, our more
sensual intimate moments reallyis an opportunity for foreplay
because what we're doing iswe're actually finding ways to
begin to bring that flirt andthat desire back.
(33:09):
And so I do this a lot.
Like another gift I'll giveyour audience is my yes, no,
maybe checklist, which they canfind at mysdoc.com.
And on this yes, no maybechecklist, I give people ideas
on how to bring novelty back in.
There's over a hundred ideason, hey, have you tried this
thing and have you tried thatthing?
And what's fun about doingstuff like this is when it comes
(33:32):
to this idea around likeforeplay and flirting, when you
do a checklist like this andyou're like, oh yeah, okay,
we're both actually interestedin trying this thing, it
actually gives you material tobring in to that flirt, to that
foreplay of like, you know, wow,honey, like I've been thinking
about, you know, our this thingthat we're gonna do.
I'm really excited about here'swhat's like happening to my
(33:54):
body when I'm thinking about it.
Right.
So it's like it starts tocreate almost this foundation
that we can actually begin tohave foreplay in flirting
because, you know, I don't knowif you run into this with people
that you coach, but like one ofthe things I see when I talk to
people about this, whetherwe're saying, okay, in the
morning or after the you know,grand event, is it's very common
for people to be like, well, Idon't know how to flirt anymore.
(34:16):
I don't know how to do foreplaylike that anymore.
So this is one of the ways Ihave like given like a concrete
tool to people to actually say,okay, here's a resource you can
use.
And once people get, you know,back into the groove,
oftentimes, you know, they don'tneed these um, you know, these
um crutches anymore.
But initially it can be a veryhelp, helpful starting point to
(34:38):
get you kind of on the same teamwith like talking about this
and beginning to flirt again.
MicheleFolan (34:42):
You know, I mentioned to you before we
started recording that I knowcouples, I speak to women all
the time, where they're they'reboth kind of shut down.
So he falls asleep on the couchevery night after a couple
drinks, she goes into the room,her bedroom, she watches
(35:03):
Netflix, falls asleep, you know,they're not they're not
connecting.
I guess that works for somecouples.
Now, I would not enjoy that,but if one of them decides, hey,
this is this is kind of weird.
Like, why are why why is thisour life now?
(35:24):
Can we get them back into whatyou call hot monogamy?
Dr.DianeMueller (35:31):
We can.
I mean, the the thing that istruly essential though is both
people in the relationship needto be willing to take a step
towards that.
So it's just like, you know,it's like couples therapy,
right?
If one person is willing to goand the other person's like
checked out and showing up lateand not really participating,
it's probably not going to work.
(35:51):
So the first step with actuallyreturning to a hot intimate
life or getting a hot intimatelife to begin with and
practicing hot monogamy reallyis both, you know, couples
coming to the table and saying,like, hey, I would like this to
be different.
I would like this to be better.
I love you, I care about you, Icare about our life enough to
(36:12):
invest some time into this.
And we don't have to be on thesame place with how they're
feeling about, you know, theirintimate life, but they both
need to come to the table andsay, hey, I love this person
enough and I want there to bepassion again and I'm willing to
show up for it, just likeanything else.
So it's not really going towork if you have like that one
(36:33):
person you're constantlypulling.
You do to have to have bothpeople willing to say, I want to
invest in this.
MicheleFolan (36:40):
What's one small thing, though, that maybe they
could like take on tonight?
Like what?
So maybe they're not willing togo and in and get help, but
what could they do just tonightto begin to shift the energy?
Dr.DianeMueller (36:57):
One of my first favorite steps for people,
because this is the foundationof how we start talking about
it.
And like I said, like 92% ofpeople of couples that are
having amazing sex are talkingabout it.
So we really need to practicethat muscle.
And the first step with that isactually beginning to talk
(37:18):
about what you love.
Like we need to remember thatanytime that we have a
conversation about sex, thatwhat we see in studies is that
the biggest threat uh to therelationship is the threat to
each individual.
So that means if I'm gonna talkto sex about with my boyfriend,
I'm gonna innatelysubconsciously have a huge
(37:41):
driver to protect myself.
He's gonna have a huge drive toprotect himself.
And so that puts everybody onthe defensive.
And so the way to startbuilding the conversations
around them, this and making itsafe is to start talking about
all the things that you love.
And this can be super, it mightbe awkward the first time you
(38:06):
do this, right?
And the more specific you canbe, the better.
And if you're not having sex,maybe you start with like
something that is, you know,happening in the sensual world.
Maybe it's like the way theyhug you in the morning.
Maybe it's a sweet little sweetsqueeze they give your hand
under the dinner table whenyou're sitting with the kids.
Like any just be very, very,very specific.
(38:28):
And what you're starting to dois you're starting to build this
foundation of like, oh, talkingabout sex and intimacy is safe.
And when I leave talking aboutsex and intimacy, not only am I
not guarding myself, I'mactually feeling awesome because
here I'm hearing about thisamazing way that I'm providing
(38:49):
something to my partner thatfeels so valuable.
So that's one of the firstthings to practice.
Of course, we do want toeventually get to the point
where we're talking to ourpartner and saying, like, hey,
that thing that you do, maybeyou bite my ear in that way.
I used to love it back in 1993,but it's out now, right?
We do want to essentially havethose kind of conversations, but
(39:09):
we need to start with this isthe foundation.
These are the things that areworking really, really well.
So we build that safety and westart to um be able to build
from there.
Well, I can see where theycould get very defensive.
MicheleFolan (39:25):
Yeah.
So if you're like, well, thereason I don't want to have sex
with you is because you do this,this, and this, it it then it's
not that's not going to beproductive.
So we gotta it, I get whatyou're saying.
They also say that when youwhen you do manifesting, that
you you you manifest about thethings that are going right.
Correct.
(39:46):
Not I need this because this isbad, right?
So and and just like that.
Dr.DianeMueller (39:52):
Yeah, no, but I think there's there's a lot of
similarities there.
There is, yeah.
Because the point I was gonnaadd on to that is like just like
with manifesting, it's likesuch a good point you're
bringing up.
Because just like that, whereit's like, oh, you kind of feel
into the abundance, you feelinto the peace, you feel into
whatever you're trying tomanifest, and you feel the
feeling of what you're trying toget, not what you don't want.
(40:13):
Same thing with this.
It's like so often the timewhen we're focused on these
things that are awesome, and ourpartner hears this, you start
to get more of those things.
And the things that are likenot as awesome, sometimes you
don't even have to bring themup.
Like sometimes you still doneed to, like I said, we do need
to talk about those thingseventually.
But sometimes as we are focusedso much on what we love, our
(40:36):
partner starts to do more ofthose things.
And there's just like not eventhinking anymore about that
thing that they were doingthat's maybe not as pleasurable
because you've now retrainedthem so much of, hey, this is
the vibe, this is the state,this is the feeling.
So it's a very, it's a reallygood analogy.
MicheleFolan (40:52):
We talked a little bit about testosterone, and I
think we need to address thisbecause I I think there's some
oh misconceptions about whattestosterone therapy can and
can't do.
Now, from my own experience, Iwill say before I had my
hysterectomy, and I've I'veagain I've shared this with my
listeners and they're probablylike, uh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Uh, but um, I had been onLupron, which totally took my
(41:18):
testosterone and everything elsewith it down to the basement.
And so when they first put meon testosterone therapy, she
just said, So, how are youfeeling?
This was like six weeks after Istarted.
And I said, I feel pretty good.
I said, I actually think myhusband is cute.
I said, That's a good firststep, right?
(41:38):
She said, Yes, it's a good stepthat we're we're making
progress.
But I don't want women to thinkthat going on, you know,
testosterone is gonna solve alltheir problems.
Can you talk a little bit aboutthat?
Dr.DianeMueller (41:51):
Yeah, I think testosterone is incredibly
important.
And there's so many people thatI know when they get on
testosterone, both men and womenalike, that all of a sudden
they get a boost in a lot ofthings, their libido, their
energy, their brain function.
Like, you know, it's prettycool.
The moment I started ontestosterone myself, it was like
(42:13):
automatically able to do apull-up at the gym.
I was like, wow, this ispretty, really cool.
So there's a lot of benefitsfrom it.
But it's also not uncommon,right?
That oftentimes that peoplewill feel an initial impulse or
initial increase in things likelibido.
And then three or four weekslater, all of a sudden it's
like, dang, like that was reallygood.
(42:35):
And now it's gone away.
So anytime we're talking aboutsex drive, libido, anything in
the medical, you know, space, wehave to remember that when
we're truly talking about theroot causes of why something is,
say, an imbalance in the bodyand a change in sex drive, a
change in libido, I wouldclassify as imbalance in the
(42:57):
body, just like any othersymptom.
And so anytime there's animbalance in the body and we're
saying, why?
What are the root causes?
We have to understand thatthere it's really root causes
plural and not root causesingular.
In fact, in the 15 years I'vebeen practicing medicine, I've
never had a single patient withany sort of chronic issue where
(43:18):
there's only been one rootcause.
Never happens.
Like, not saying it couldn't,but it never has.
So, you know, we can say inlike acute medicine, like, oh,
there's one root cause.
For example, you get strepthroat, you know, that's
oftentimes a root cause.
But then we could even say, oh,well, why did I get strep
throat?
Maybe my immune system's down,maybe my microbiome's down,
(43:38):
maybe I'm not eating healthy,maybe I'm not sleeping enough.
So even in that acute realm, wecan say, hey, oftentimes
there's more than one rootcause.
So if we're looking at rootcauses like a piece of a pie,
and when we're talking about lowlibido, and we're saying, okay,
well, one piece of that pie ofroot cause is testosterone.
(44:00):
What's really important tounderstand, and where people
kind of get misdirected, isoftentimes when something like
testosterone works and then allof a sudden it like stops
working, they think, oh, I don'tneed testosterone.
And that's generally not true.
Like we do want to take in, youknow, this is obviously like
talk to your doctor, like yougot to get full medical advice
(44:20):
here.
But think about iftestosterone, if there's six
pieces of your root cause pie,and there's gonna be different
numbers of pie slices foreverybody's scenario.
But if there's six pieces ofpie, each representing one root
cause, and testosterone is oneof them, if you don't address
that piece of the pie, you'renot gonna be functioning
holistically, wholly.
So if you leave it out, it'snot gonna, your body's not gonna
(44:42):
be working fully.
But if you only address that,you're also not gonna be working
fully.
So if you start takingtestosterone and you notice,
like, wow, you feel somethinggreat and you're getting a
change, great.
Now you know that is one pieceof the pie and it's an important
piece.
It doesn't mean you should takethat piece out.
It just means that, hey, ifyou're like, hey, my libido
(45:04):
hasn't turned back on fully, youneed to figure out what these
other pieces are.
And they could be some of theseother things that we talked
about at my libido quiz atlibidoquiz.com.
Could be the novelty, could bethe change of orgasm, could be
the change of feeling, could belike you mentioned earlier, that
emotional thing that happenedduring early in the day and it
was never resolved, and it'sfestering and this happens a
(45:27):
lot, and we're just feeling allthese micro traumas continually.
There are so many differentpieces of the pie, but that's
how we need to look at it islike many pieces of the libido
pie, and testosterone is animportant piece, but not the
whole story.
MicheleFolan (45:40):
Yeah.
And I appreciate you reallydigging into that.
That was that was really good.
Um, just because I don't wantpeople to think that that's
gonna solve all your becausethere's the physical and then
there's the emotional, and thenuh it's complicated, it's messy.
So yeah, Diane, you should talkabout your podcast.
Dr.DianeMueller (46:01):
Oh, I'd love to.
Yeah, you guys can all find meon any podcast platform.
My podcast is called LibidoLounge, and really we explore
mental, emotional, physical,inter-relational communication
techniques, novelty, boredom,orgasms, and more.
And I spend on that show, Iinterview sex spirit and
(46:23):
therapists and all sorts ofdifferent experts in the
hormone, in the wellness, in thehealth space, all over the
world.
That's exciting.
That's really good stuff.
Yeah, great.
And then your book.
My book is called Want to WantIt.
So right now, I'm not sure whenthis episode is coming out, but
right now, as of today, whenwe're filming this, this is on
(46:44):
um pre-release.
So you can order it now.
It comes, the book comes outofficially on November 3rd.
And so I'm giving all sorts ofbonuses by for the pre-release.
I'm getting also giving allsorts of bonuses for people that
buy it right around the time ofrelease and leave me a review.
So lots of ways to get freeaccess to a lot of my courses
(47:05):
and material.
I have tons of partners, um, Ithink close to eight different
partners who have given me freecontent from there that are
sexologists as well, that havegiven me content to also gift
people as well.
So it's a really great way ofgetting additional bonuses on
how to heal from desiremismatch, on how to help your
hormones, and so much more.
MicheleFolan (47:26):
You know what else we should do is for the show
notes, if so, I'll put all thatin the show notes, but I want to
make sure too that if there'sany sex toys or little aids that
would be helpful that you lovethat are, you know, tried true
and tested, that maybe we couldput some links to those also in
(47:48):
the show notes.
Dr.DianeMueller (47:49):
I'll give you my product link page because for
anything that I recommend, um,I always like to do two things.
One, test it myself.
And then two, as much aspossible, get discount codes for
everybody.
So I can give you a page whereI have like discount codes and
everything.
Cause like you have likethere's a lot of um, there's a
lot of products out there thatare like toxic for the vagina or
(48:11):
lubes that are like reallysticky and gross.
So I do like to um test it aswell as give um coupon codes.
So I can give you the linkwhere people can find great
coupon codes and that sort ofthing too.
MicheleFolan (48:22):
You know, you brought up lube.
And I I won't get on my soapboxabout women using vaginal
estrogen, but you're not evengiving yourself a chance if you
don't get yourself some vaginalestrogen.
It's very, very helpful.
And some good lube because uhyou gotta have a good
environment there.
And it's just yeah.
Dr.DianeMueller (48:43):
And even testosterone applied to the
vulva, a lot of people are notdoing vulva vir application of
testosterone creams, but eventestosterone cream can also
really help with lubrication.
I also really encourage the,you know, the vaginal estrogen
as well.
But it's good for women to knowthat testosterone can be
helpful too, and that can be agreat place to apply it as well,
(49:03):
is on the vulva.
MicheleFolan (49:04):
Yep, I've heard that too.
Yep.
So what is one of your ownself-care non-negotiables that
keeps you grounded and connectedbecause you're a very busy
person?
Dr.DianeMueller (49:18):
Um, as far as self-care, a few different
things.
One, one of the biggest thingsis I wake up and I don't
immediately go on my phone.
I wake up and I do meditation,visualization.
There's, I don't have like aperfect morning routine.
I don't really believepersonally that there has to be
this perfect morning routine.
But what I do believe is that,you know, just like you're
(49:40):
talking about manifestation,that my day is created out of
the state that I'm in.
And the more I can get myselfinto the um, into the internal
state where I'm going to enjoymy days and that I'm creating
internally versus letting theworld and the outside world
dictate how I feel, that isprobably one of the most
(50:02):
profound self-care things that Ihave done in my life.
Oh, that's perfect.
MicheleFolan (50:07):
This is a great way to wrap it up.
Dr.
Diane Mueller, thank you somuch for being here today.
Thank you, Michele.
Thank you for listening.
Please rate and review thepodcast where you listen.
And if you'd like to join theAsking for a Friend community,
click on the link in the shownotes to sign up for my weekly
newsletter where I share midlifewellness and fitness tips,
(50:28):
insights, my favorite finds, andrecipes.
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