November 25, 2025 • 50 mins
A lot of women in midlife are walking around feeling like they’re broken. You’ve done the labs, seen the specialists, tried the supplements… and you’re still exhausted, inflamed, and wondering if this is just your new normal. My guest today says absolutely not.
Dr. Karyn Shanks is a physician, author, and pioneer in whole-person healing whose work sits at the intersection of cutting-edge science, trauma-informed care, and what she calls “soulful personal agency.” For over three decades, she’s helped thousands of patients recover from chronic illness, burnout, and emotional disconnection—not by chasing symptoms, but by teaching them to listen to the intelligent messages their bodies are sending.
Her new book, Unbroken: Reclaim Your Wholeness, challenges the old medical model that fragments us (mind over here, body over there) and reframes illness as a call to reconnect with ourselves rather than proof that something is wrong with us.
In this conversation, we dig into what it really means to heal from the inside out—especially in midlife, when chronic stress, caregiving, perfectionism, and old narratives can keep us stuck in survival mode. Dr. Shanks breaks down the science of epigenetics and neuroplasticity in simple, hopeful language, shows how trauma and limiting stories shape our biology, and shares practical “micro-practices” anyone can use to begin moving toward wholeness today.
We cover:
- Why “you are not broken” is more than a comforting phrase—it’s biology
- How epigenetics and neuroplasticity give us real power to change our health story
- The hidden ways trauma and productivity culture keep midlife women sick and depleted
- Simple daily practices to check in with yourself, build intuition, and create safety in your own body
- How to start advocating for yourself when you’ve felt dismissed or unheard in the medical system
If you’ve ever felt unseen by your providers, stuck in a diagnosis, or disconnected from your own body, this episode will give you both a new lens—and a starting place—for true healing.
You can find Dr. Karyn Shanks at https://www.karynshanksmd.com/
Instagram https://www.instagram.com/karynshanksmd/
Her book, Unbroken: Reclaim Your Wholeness, is now available wherever books are sold.
_________________________________________
1:1 health and nutrition coaching or Faster Way - Reach me anytime at mailto:mfolanfasterway@gmail.com
If you’re doing “all the right things” and still feel stuck, it may be time to look deeper. I’ve partnered with EllieMD, a trusted telehealth platform offering modern solutions for women in midlife—including micro-dosed GLP-1 peptide therapy—to support metabolic health and longevity.
https://elliemd.com/michelefolan - Create a free account to view all products.
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🎤 In addition to coaching, I speak to women’s groups, moderate health panel discussions, and bring experts together for real, evidence-based conversations about midlife health.
Transcripts are created with AI and may not be perfectly accurate.
Disclaimer: This podcast is for general informational purposes only and does not constitute the practice of medicine, nursing, or other professional healthcare services. It is not a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Always seek the advice of your qualified healthcare provider with any questions regarding a medical condition.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Michele Folan (00:00):
The new year is coming, and with it that
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We're removing the taboo fromwhat really matters in midlife.
So many women in midlife feelstuck.
You've done the labs, you'veseen the specialists, you've
taken the supplements, and yetyou're still exhausted,
(01:46):
inflamed, and wondering if thisis your new normal.
My guest today, Dr.
Karyn Shanks, says you are notbroken.
She's a physician, author, andpioneer in whole person healing
whose work sits at theintersection of cutting-edge
science, trauma-informed care,and what she calls soulful
personal agency.
(02:06):
For over three decades, Dr.
Shanks has helped thousands ofpatients recover their lives
from chronic illness, burnout,and emotional disconnection, not
by chasing symptoms, but byteaching people to listen to the
intelligent messages theirbodies are sending.
Her new book, Unbroken, ReclaimYour Wholeness, challenges the
medical model that fragments us,separating the body from mind
(02:29):
and science from soul, andinvites us to reframe illness,
not as a flaw, but as a call toreconnect with ourselves.
In this conversation, we unpackwhat it really means to heal
from the inside out, from thebiology of safety and connection
to the power of neuroplasticityand epigenetics, to how
(02:50):
perfectionism and ourproductivity culture are
literally making us sick.
If you've ever felt dismissedby a doctor, frustrated by the
lack of answers, or justdisconnected from your own body,
this episode will give you hopeand maybe even a new lens for
what healing really looks like.
Dr.
Karyn Shanks, welcome to Askingfor a Friend.
Karyn Shanks, MD (03:13):
Thank you so much for having me.
And that was a beautifulintroduction.
Beautiful.
Michele Folan (03:17):
Thank you.
It's so funny.
I I've never written a book,but I do like to write, and I
try not to lean on Chat GPT toomuch.
So you know what I mean?
But yeah, so yes, and speakingof books, we will talk a little
bit about your book.
But you've you've been aphysician for over three
(03:39):
decades, so a long time.
And I like to first dig intocareer path and then what led
you to this integrative wholeperson approach?
Karyn Shanks, MD (03:51):
Right.
Wow.
I think that started longbefore I went to medical school
when I had a just a holisticorientation toward people,
friendships, uh, people I workedwith.
I had an early job through mylate teens and into my 20s
throughout college.
I was a home health nurse.
(04:11):
A lot of that was hospice work,and I was in people's homes and
I was getting to know them andI was supporting them in all the
ways.
I got to know their families.
And there was just thisbeautiful empathic connection
that occurred.
And when I got the idea to goto medical school, I thought
that's what I was getting intowas a whole person
(04:34):
connection-based process andrelationships.
And of course, that's not whatmodern Western medicine is fun
is all about.
Right.
Not to say there aren'tphysicians that are very
empathic and caring, but it'sjust not that was not a part of
my training.
Um, so that was my first, like,I was a setup for that mismatch
(04:57):
between how I saw foundationalrelationships with people and
how I experienced them, and thenhow I learned to become to be a
doctor, like all the thingsthat we learned in medical
school and medical training.
There was just an incrediblemismatch.
And then, but I I did it, I didall the training.
I became board certified as aninternist.
(05:18):
But the moment, like day one inthe clinic, as a new practicing
doctor, I realized that whatpeople were coming in with, I
really didn't have the trainingto help them with what they
really needed.
And that led me into more of anexploration into women's health
because especially women'sissues, that we don't learn
(05:41):
anything.
Menopause, PMS, you know, prouh sources of profound
suffering.
And I didn't have a clue whatto do.
So I had to, I had to go learnit.
And then one thing led toanother.
I'm looking at people, youknow, within the medical context
as whole people and pr andlearning to create a practice
(06:02):
model that allowed me to do thatbecause of, you know, you there
are great time constraints.
Oh, yeah.
And I somehow was able to rebeland get away with it in with it
inside the the first uhtraditional practice I was in.
And I eventually found JeffreyBland and the Institute for
Functional Medicine, which getsall goes deep, dives deeply into
(06:24):
uh systems biology and a wholeperson strategy for helping
people heal.
And yes, I I just completelyre-educated myself, but still
with a foot in that camp ofconventional Western medicine,
which I have found to be veryimportant to combining all those
things to help people.
Michele Folan (06:44):
Well, you know, this is something that I hear a
lot of doctors talk about isthat, you know, you work for a
hospital system or a grouppractice where you have 15
minutes to see a to see apatient, right?
And they may be coming in witha whole long list of things,
(07:06):
which is great.
But you in order to figure allthat out, you've got to dig
really deep.
And I think you were sayingthat that you just didn't have
the ability, the time to be ableto do that effectively.
Karyn Shanks, MD (07:20):
That's right.
But I didn't have the time andI didn't have a lot of the
knowledge.
Yeah.
I didn't, you know, I learned adisease model, you know, and a
way of interviewing people thatputs them in a disease box first
and foremost foremost, so thatwe can then apply the right
protocol, one size fits allprotocol, to help them with
(07:40):
their symptoms.
It was just missing a lot ofthe important attributes of who
people are, how they function,and how they heal.
Michele Folan (07:48):
You've personally walked the journey of chronic
illness.
How did your own experience ofbeing a patient reshape your
understanding of healing?
Karyn Shanks, MD (08:02):
I have had a lot of weird things happen to
me.
Michele Folan (08:05):
Oh no.
Karyn Shanks, MD (08:07):
And including a diagnosis that is so often
missed and poorly understood,that's called Erlos-Danlos
hypermobility syndrome, whichcomes with a lot of stretchy,
lax ligaments, low bloodpressure, a variety of issues
that are related to uniqueconnected tissue.
And for years and years andyears, I had one injury after
(08:30):
the other, you know, and the lowblood pressure that I didn't
know about, but caused bouts ofsevere fatigue, like drop-dead
fatigue.
And it was, I was treated likemany parts, many problems.
So I had a zillion diagnoses,you know, shoulder tendinitis,
uh, knee strain, whatever.
I mean, a zillion differentseparate diagnoses.
(08:53):
And at one point, and I writeabout this in the book, so I
won't go into it in detail, butat one point I really crashed
and burned and was sofrustrated.
And I knew I had to find adifferent way of looking at what
was going on with me.
And that's that led me totaking my blood pressure at home
on my own, and it was so low.
Oh my god.
So low.
(09:13):
I got on my it was like 80 over50 sitting and dropped to 70
over 30 standing.
And that is like unsustainableblood pressure.
Oh my God.
I I'm surprised you didn't passout.
I never got dizzy.
I was just so exhausted.
I had to sit down.
You know, I was how old wereyou then?
(09:34):
I when I made that discovery,oh my God, I was like 50.
I was in my early 50s all theway here.
And people were taking my bloodpressure.
Oh, it's low, that's great.
You know, it'd be 90 over 50 inthe office when I should have
white coat hypertension, right?
Exactly.
And they're saying, oh, it'slow, that's great.
But that was a real eurekamoment.
It's like, okay, there's apiece of the puzzle.
(09:56):
I had to figure out thediagnosis on my own.
And not everybody has thatability to do that.
I'm a doctor.
I I can, you know, explorethese things, but it just blew
my mind.
So I got so what I was able todo is get at a root cause.
And root causes are not what wediscover in most encounter,
most Western medicineencounters.
(10:19):
We we look, it really stays ata superficial level and applies
symptomatic fixes.
So that was a real that was ahuge aha for me that I began to
apply to my chronic complexclients.
Michele Folan (10:36):
You know, you use this phrase, we are never truly
broken, which I love, you know,because I told you before we
started recording, you know, weoften say things like, you're
not broken, it's never too late.
Can you share how that beliefbecame the cornerstone of your
work?
Karyn Shanks, MD (10:53):
Because I I began rather than being discrete
parts, uh, bodies composed ofdiscrete parts, organisms
composed of discrete parts, youknow, we've got our body here,
our mind here, our soul way overhere.
And rather than our problemsfitting into this disease box
that is the suggestion that whensomething hurts, when something
(11:17):
makes us suffer, it's a brokenpart of us.
It is bad genes that aremanifesting themselves because
our book of life is unfolding,or something's uh coming to get
us from the outside, like a badvirus.
And it we just we have thisidea that when something hurts,
(11:39):
when we suffer, when we're sick,that something's terribly wrong
with us.
Rather than that all being abeautiful language of the body
that is all wise, that nevergives us incorrect information
about what our unmet needs are,right?
So I just gradually was puttingthat together and seeing that
(12:01):
big great big bird's eye view ofwhat it is to be a human and
what it is to suffer and whatthat all really means.
Michele Folan (12:08):
Yeah.
Karyn Shanks, MD (12:08):
Does that make sense?
Michele Folan (12:10):
It does, because what you're saying is these
symptoms, those things that wefeel are really messages.
Correct.
Karyn Shanks, MD (12:17):
They're messages.
It's wisdom of the body, is Iuh is what I like to say,
because it's that that gives ita reverent quality.
And we don't have reverence forour body in that way.
We don't even see ourselves asthat.
We see ourselves as here's athing that must be fixed, here's
a thing that I can't tolerate,I can't figure out on my own.
(12:37):
It needs to be fixed.
I'm going to give it to thisexpert over here who claims to
have the solution for me, whosees me in a very particular
way, who sees me as a body and abody as a machine composed of
parts.
Because that's the foundationof Western medicine when it
began to evolve it back in the1600, 1700s.
(12:58):
Yeah.
Michele Folan (12:59):
I I this is this is really resonating with me.
And it's all wrong.
It's a wrong way to look atlook at who we are and what we
are.
Karen, we're going to take aquick break and we come back.
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(13:22):
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All right, we're back.
(14:14):
With your work, Karyn, youbring together the fields of
epigenetics, neuroplasticity,and also trauma physiology.
And I want to back up becausewe've used these terms like
epigenetics and neuroplasticityon this show before.
And I don't think I've ever hadanyone explain what they truly
(14:38):
are and how they're connected inthe healing process.
Can you explain this a littlebit?
Sure.
And we can make it reallysimple.
Karyn Shanks, MD (14:46):
And I think it's some there are concepts
that anybody can grasp andprobably new on some level were
true.
Epigenetics is the idea thatour gene expression is not
fixed.
So we all most of us and mostof your listeners grew up during
an era of the gene hypothesis.
So when the genes were firstdiscovered back in the mid-part
(15:09):
of the 1900s, we began, webelieved that that the
information in those genes wasour book of life.
Like genetic destiny.
What happened to our parentswill happen to us.
And the only thing to do is sitback and wait for the thing to
happen, right?
And what we know now, so andthis happened around early
(15:32):
1990s, uh, the genome project,which many people have heard
about, we we discovered thatless than 1% of our genes were
actively coding for proteins,which make all of our structure
and function.
And the rest of them, more than99% of our genes, were
regulatory genes.
(15:52):
They were turning genes on andoff, depending on the
environment and all thecircumstances surrounding those
genes, which is every aspect ofour lives, every thought, every
feeling, every lifestyle habithas an effect on genetic
expression.
So what that says is we canchange our outcomes.
They're not set in stone.
(16:13):
That largely how our genesexpress themselves, thus, how we
operate as humans, is in ourhands.
It's modifiable.
So that's why I often callepigenetics part of this science
of directable human potential,because we have all this
untapped potential inside ourgenome because we can turn genes
(16:36):
on and off, but we can alsodirect the trajectory of that
process to improve our lives.
Michele Folan (16:43):
It makes me feel like oftentimes we blame our
genetics for our lot in life interms of our health many times.
And I so basically what you'resaying is through lifestyle and
other things, that we don't haveto be a slave to our genetics.
Correct.
(17:03):
Got it.
Karyn Shanks, MD (17:04):
We are largely in control of our genetic
destiny.
That's what we've learned.
That's the whole this wholefield of epigenetics.
But even though it's beenaround for like over 50 years,
really coming to the fore in thelast 20 years or so, it's not
there in clinical practice ofmedicine.
It's not in people's mindsetsyet.
(17:24):
It's so deeply like embedded inour being.
Yeah.
It's a powerful story.
The old story of geneticdeterminism is just really
tenacious.
Michele Folan (17:36):
Yeah, we let that be our narrative.
Yeah.
Karyn Shanks, MD (17:40):
Yes.
unknown (17:40):
Yeah.
Karyn Shanks, MD (17:41):
And part of it is that medicine still
propagates that understandingbecause I think and I think a
huge part of it is that it's oneof the foundations of Western
modern medicine.
And it's been hugelyprofitable.
And it's really hard to let goof.
Yeah.
But if we know it, you and meand your audience know it, we
(18:05):
can separate ourselves from thatdependency on the narratives of
Western medicine and begin topractice, uh, exercise those
practices that help us bust outof that narrative and that
limitation to being well.
Michele Folan (18:21):
How do we bust out of the narrative when
there's trauma involved?
Karyn Shanks, MD (18:28):
That is really hard because, first of all,
that's trauma itself.
You are limited by thisreality.
Your genes are your story,right?
That's traumatizing.
That is a traumatizing culturalnarrative.
You are composed of parts thatare separate: mind, body,
spirit.
That's traumatizing.
(18:49):
We disconnect from the truenature of who we are, who we
know we are.
We disconnect from ourfeelings.
We don't even pay attention toour feelings.
What was your originalquestion?
Michele Folan (18:59):
So yeah, how do we well?
Because yeah, trauma, trauma isgoing to is is going to tell us
a whole nother narrative.
Karyn Shanks, MD (19:09):
Yes, it is.
It's because with unresolvedtrauma, and maybe we should
define trauma real quicklybecause a lot of times
misunderstand a lot of peoplemisunderstand what is really
meant.
It's not just those big badevents that happen to you.
Trauma happens to some extentto us all.
So it is, it's things thathappened, and I think if we can
(19:30):
focus on childhood, things thathappened that were did not meet
our needs, our primary needsthat were not repaired, or it's
things that didn't happen thatshould have happened without
repair.
And in order for a young childto manage that kind of uh
(19:52):
situation, they disconnect fromthemselves.
Just quick example (19:56):
the two primary needs of humans are
connection and authenticity ofbeing who we are.
So, as small children,obviously our survival depends
on the connection to our primarycaregivers.
So, so often, and probably allof us have had to do this to
some extent, even if we had themost loving parents on the
(20:18):
planet, is we had to trade whowe actually were for that
connection, that vitalconnection that literally kept
us alive at that time.
So, like, you know, we becamequiet, we learned we couldn't
express certain feelings, wedimmed our light, we weren't as
loud and enthusiastic, we,whatever it was that we had to
(20:38):
give away in order to securethat connection.
So that's what I that's whatI'm talking about.
And so then those disconnectsand those beliefs that we
established very early on basedon those traumatic experiences,
those can operate unconsciouslyand direct our lives in ways we
don't want, limiting beliefs,you know, limiting ideas about
(21:01):
what's possible, that uhfeelings of unworthiness, all
that.
Michele Folan (21:07):
And can those feelings make us sick?
Karyn Shanks, MD (21:11):
Absolutely, because it drives there, those
are all drivers of survivalbiology, the autonomic nervous
system, uh, which is responsiblefor a lot of the things most of
us can identify as being a partof our, you know, and we might
call it high stress or overwhelmor or or whatever, whatever we
(21:32):
are we are calling it, but it'sa a lot of energy and resources
are put toward keeping us safe.
And when that is persistent,when it goes on too long, we can
blow through internal resourcesand no longer have the
resilience or robustness to feelreally good.
(21:53):
Our our biology prioritizessafety over everything else.
So when we're highly stressedor feeling overwhelmed or burned
out or scared, all of thoseresources are going to
prioritize keeping putting us ina place of safety, however that
(22:13):
needs to happen.
And then those those resourcesand energy aren't available for
anything else.
So not only can we become sickbecause we're not supported in
the way we need to be, but ourpotential as humans is limited
as well.
Michele Folan (22:30):
And I find, particularly with my audience,
our age group, you know, 50plus, 55 plus.
We've got adult kids, and Ialways say, bigger kids, bigger
problems.
We've right, Dr.
Shanks laughs, but you knowit's true.
(22:52):
You know, we're the sandwichgeneration, we're taking care of
our parents.
We may still be workingfull-time, we're maybe managing
grandchildren at this point.
Uh, there's maybe financialissues, but whatever it is,
there is this chronic stressthat that I think shows up in in
(23:14):
a lot of different ways.
How do we use, I guess,neuroplasticity or how do we
facilitate healing when we'vegot all this underlying stuff?
Yeah.
Karyn Shanks, MD (23:28):
Well, first is to know that you're operating
according to a limited narrativeor a limiting, limiting story.
Many people don't realize thatwhat they're thinking, what they
believe for sure, what they'vebeen taught, what they're, you
know, the the belief systems oftheir families and communities
(23:51):
and culture, that they're allstories, which means we made
them up.
We made them up.
And that's what the human braindoes.
So we can it's so it'simportant to understand that
that is true.
There, of course, are storiesthat are very supportive.
They're very they uh uh theyopen up our all of our healing
(24:13):
potential and the potential forbeing the best of who we can be.
But there are many stories thatare very limiting, and some of
them come from personal trauma,some of it's you know, cultural
trauma.
So the I think the first stepis to realize that that in fact
is true and that our storiesshould support us and ennoble us
and lead us toward healing.
(24:33):
If they don't, they there'ssomething very wrong.
And we have the authority, eachone of us, to look those
stories straight in the eye andinvite a new story to come in.
And I don't, I don't thinkpeople often, especially the
big, you know, tenaciousstories, this the big cultural
(24:54):
stories, some people don'trealize they get to do that.
We get to do that witheverything.
We can scrutinize every story.
And the more entrenched theyare, the more they really
deserve our our attention.
And then, you know, even that'sthat's hard to do.
So that that's all hard to do,and it's it's hard to um unravel
old stories and create and andcreate new ones.
(25:15):
But we can sort of jump pastthe hurdle of how limiting the
old stories can be because theyare, and the more uh scared we
are, the more traumatized andoverwhelmed and stressed we're
feeling, the harder it is to dothat work.
But we can invite in a newstory and practice it every day
without even believing it, andit can start to um permeate our
(25:40):
thinking.
Michele Folan (25:40):
Yeah.
So I I'm sitting here and I'mI'm nodding because I'm I'm
thinking we have to firstidentify that we know that that
is that old narrative, thatstory is what's holding us back,
making us feel sick, tired,like chronic stress.
And then it's almost likeyou're saying we're manifesting,
(26:03):
but you're it's almost as ifwe're manifesting a new story to
tell ourselves.
And can that be ourself-fulfilling prophecy?
Karyn Shanks, MD (26:14):
Sure.
If we let it stagnate, if welet it, because even a new story
that feels better, feelsrobust, feels like it's moving
us in a better direction, isprobably going to have its own
limitations, right?
So we have to constantly bechecking in with ourselves.
How do we feel?
How does this land?
Are our needs being met?
Do I need to shift this story?
(26:35):
Is there something new to addto it?
And that's daily check-ins.
That's being our witness.
That's why in the book, when Iget to the section on our
practices to call in all thisbeautiful uh potential we may
not know we have.
So um we'd have to constantlybe checking in on the validity
(27:01):
of our stories.
And the number one foundationalpractice that I recommend in my
book as part of our recovery islearning to be present to
ourselves, to present time towhat's going on around us.
Because without thatself-observation and checking
in, we won't even know how tomanage and direct our stories.
Michele Folan (27:26):
When you are with a patient and you're digging
in, you're you've got you've gotsome time and you're you're
having these conversations withpatients.
How do you get to the pointwhere you can pull this stuff
out of someone so that you canfigure out what it is that has
(27:47):
been holding them back?
Karyn Shanks, MD (27:50):
You know, I think the process starts with my
intake questionnaires, whichare, I mean, it must be 50
pages.
There's so much information.
There's a timeline from birthto present time.
And as people are doing that,even though it's such a tall
order and it can be a real painto do all this paperwork, in the
process of doing that, theystart to put together things in
(28:12):
their own mind, like, oh, oh mygosh, this happened to me at
that age.
How that might connect to someaspect of what's going on today.
You know, they just they startputting things together
themselves.
And then when I visit with themfor the first time, and I have
my practice structured so thatthere are no time constraints.
Literally, I have a block offour hours.
(28:34):
We don't always use all thattime, but they then have they're
invited to tell their wholestory no matter how long it
takes.
unknown (28:41):
Wow.
Karyn Shanks, MD (28:42):
And their stories are often very, very
long and very convoluted.
And many people have never hada chance to tell their whole
story before.
So I learn a lot during thattime, and they do too.
And then it's just a it's a aprocess of what I'll call
compassionate inquiry into, youknow, things they say that
(29:02):
suggest to me that there mightbe a a little, you know, a pain
point there, uh, a thepossibility of something
traumatic having happened.
There's uh they show me whatstories might be stuck and
circulating around.
Yeah.
So in in the process of that,that um storytelling, uh, there
(29:23):
are often a lot of signs thatthere are other things
operating.
There are stories operating,there are beliefs that are
holding them back.
And then I can gently sort ofbring it up and and then we go
where they're ready to go.
Michele Folan (29:36):
Okay.
And we have this fix itmentality.
Karyn Shanks, MD (29:40):
Yeah.
Michele Folan (29:40):
So some patients may be like, I just need you to
fix me.
Karyn Shanks, MD (29:44):
Right.
Michele Folan (29:45):
You're the doctor, fix me.
And so how much participationdo they have in this process
where they have to some of thatfixing has to come from their
internal drive?
Karyn Shanks, MD (29:56):
Most people, by the time they see me, they've
already slept.
Through the cracks.
They have some chronic complexissue going on.
They've slipped through thecracks.
They're already disillbeginning to know that they're
disillusioned with what peoplehave been able to do for them so
far.
So they're already shiftingtheir mindset a bit.
(30:17):
But I some I often do have toteach them about the
storytelling brain.
And we have, you know, likethat that's one of the education
pieces we have to start with,and the role of trauma in our
biology and gene expression, andhow that and all the stresses
and demands of life can shift usinto an equilibrium of illness,
(30:42):
suffering, pain, whatever itis, and that we are operating at
an equilibrium.
And you don't fix anequilibrium, it's just how
nature works.
That we organisms operate atthe very best of their ability
given present circumstances,resources, energy, knowledge.
Michele Folan (31:03):
What are three small but powerful steps
listeners can take right now tobegin moving toward wholeness?
Because I'm sure there arepeople listening right now that
feel like they have been totallydismissed by their health care
providers.
Karyn Shanks, MD (31:21):
Just because you've been dismissed by your
health care provider, whichwe've all had that experience,
I'm sure.
Yes.
You don't have to dismissyourself.
So what I want people to do andwhat I teach them to do as sort
of the initiation into a wholenew way of managing themselves
and their health is to becometheir witness, to forge a
(31:44):
relationship with themselves.
So they're not dismissingthemselves.
So they are paying attention towhat's going on inside them.
They're paying attention to thefeelings and the sensations and
the energy states and thesymptoms of their bodies.
And they're checking in in away that isn't asking them to be
(32:06):
fixed, but it's a way ofchecking in in a non-judgmental
way, in a curious way, so thatthey can begin to get to know
what is going on inside them.
Because so many people areliving such high-paced,
distracted lives of overwhelmand lack of rest.
(32:27):
People just aren't checking in.
And we aren't taught in ourculture to check in until we ask
for it as a suffering adult,you know?
Right.
And we're also, especially aswomen, we're taught to put
everyone else's needs before ourown.
And that our value is based onthe ability to do that
successfully.
It's really hard to learn to bea person who checks in with
(32:49):
themselves when all that isgoing on, right?
So it's important to start adaily practice of that.
And that can be really simple.
It can be really simple atfirst and powerful, and then
lead to more as you as you'reready for it and need it.
But one of my favorite simplepractices is first I understand
(33:10):
that there is a me here thatneeds my attention, needs my
attention a hundred percent.
And during the course of theday, I have a feel, let's say
fear is rising up for something.
I can just check in and I tryto check in in a way that's very
tangible because that's whatour primitive brain, our brain
(33:31):
that is designed to keep usalive and to help us survive and
bring us to safety.
That's what that part of ourbrain needs.
It needs tangible.
So I both put my hands firmlyover my heart and I say, I'm
right here.
I'm right here.
So though I already feel betterjust doing that.
You know, my dogs just went offand interrupted my my this
(33:53):
podcast and I got superstressed.
And I'm just right here.
I recognize how that made mefeel.
And then the next thing I liketo add that to that is what do
you need?
What do you need?
And you know, sometimesnobody's asked us that question
in a very long time.
But if we can get in the habitof asking that every day, like I
(34:14):
just right now, as I'm feelingwhat's going on inside, and I
ask that question, I just feelthis like this heart opening,
this like relaxation, like, oh,okay, my needs are important, my
needs are seen.
And we can do that forourselves.
And if you begin to do it everyday and practice every day,
it's like your body, your mind,your nervous system starts to
(34:38):
trust you and to trust thatyou're checking in and that you
are worthy of that kind of care.
That's huge.
Michele Folan (34:45):
Yeah.
If that's how you do that, youknow that's really hard for
women to do.
Karyn Shanks, MD (34:51):
It was hard for me.
It felt so awkward.
Like, ooh, ooh, but I just Ihad a therapist who taught that
to me, uh, a trauma therapistand who practiced a therapeutic
approach for trauma calledcompassionate inquiry.
And the first thing we do ischeck in and notice what's there
(35:12):
without judgment, not fixingbecause we want to understand
what's going on is the wisdom ofour bodies, whether it's a an
emotion or a symptom of somekind, pain, whatever.
We just want to we want to lookat it with curiosity and not
jump in and try to fix it.
That's the first step.
So we can understand what it'strying to tell us.
(35:32):
And then we ask, what do youneed?
And sometimes the answerdoesn't come.
So I always tell people, askwhat you ask the feeling,
sensation, whatever, what youneed, and then let it go.
Because very likely that answeris going to show up.
It's going to drop right inyour lap at some point during
the day while you're driving,while you're, you know,
showering, while you'reshopping, whatever.
(35:55):
There's going to be somethingthat drops in as an answer to
that question.
Michele Folan (35:59):
You know, what you're really asking people to
do, I guess I'm maybeparaphrasing, it's really about
being more intuitive aboutyourself.
It's like, you know, it's we wewe go, go, go, go, go, and we
do do do for other people, butwe don't take that time to
(36:19):
really check in with ourselves.
And I think this is sopowerful.
That's right.
Karyn Shanks, MD (36:24):
But it's a muscle.
That intuition is a muscle, andwe have to work it.
We have to get our reps in.
And if we start showing upevery day, even in that simple
little practice I just showedyou that I like to do, you're
gonna develop that intuition.
And it's pretty soon, boom,you're gonna you're you're
feeling something, boom, you'reright there listening.
Michele Folan (36:45):
It'd be really helpful if we would learn these
skills before we turn 61, like Iam.
Karyn Shanks, MD (36:53):
Imagine if we taught every child to check in.
Michele Folan (36:57):
Yeah, I know.
You know, it's to me, it'sself-care.
It's it's this is all just anextension of really good
self-care.
Karyn Shanks, MD (37:05):
Yeah.
Michele Folan (37:06):
And you've written multiple books on
healing.
And I I we're gonna talk aboutunbroken, but you also did a
book on the wisdom of COVID-19,and I have no idea what that's
about, but I have to ask.
Karyn Shanks, MD (37:22):
Oh my gosh.
That whole thing, the responseto COVID drove me absolutely out
of my mind.
Because, and it was more likethe way we chose to look at it,
which we which Western medicinelooked at it in a very
predictable way.
(37:43):
A bad, bad, bad virus came andgot us.
Okay.
It has a lot of that, it's avirus, it's very good at
survival.
But the truth about gettingsick from microorganisms is that
it's a relationship between thehost, the person who gets sick,
and that organism.
It's a relationship.
(38:04):
So, one thing we learned veryearly in the pandemic is that
the people who got the sickestwent to the hospital and died,
were people who were alreadyprofoundly vulnerable to the
effects of the virus because ofother chronic health conditions
that they already had.
And you know that that we havea pandemic of chronic
(38:26):
self-inflicted chronic illness.
Yep.
And that make that makes peopleso vulnerable.
So I was so upset that thefocus was all on the virus and
it wasn't on the you know, theobservation that human
vulnerability may have been themore important part of that
(38:47):
pandemic and the devastation ofit all.
So I had to write a book.
Michele Folan (38:50):
I just had to read as she pounds her desk.
You know what though?
You know what though, myhusband and I had talked about
this, and and we never took theopportunity to talk to people
during the pandemic about getoutside, exercise, prevention is
key.
(39:11):
You know, yeah, what's thelesson learned here about this
type of virus?
And you know, maybe it won't bethe last, but was there a
missed opportunity there to havesome clear messaging on don't
be this person that putsyourself at horrible risk?
(39:32):
I mean, if you're 92 years old,I get it.
But we we have a choice now atthe age of 55, 60, 65, to change
the narrative on how we wantour health outcomes, right?
Karyn Shanks, MD (39:47):
And change our bodies and literally change how
resilient and robust we can bein the face of any challenge.
Yes.
We can do that.
I don't care what's going onwith you or how you're
suffering, we can improve yourcircumstances and move you to an
equilibrium of resilience androbustness.
(40:07):
And we we know how to do it.
We can you you're the peopleyou work with, whether it's your
coach, your nutritionist, yourdoc, your whatever, we can show
you, show you that roadmap.
And then you can pick andchoose what you want to work on
today.
Michele Folan (40:21):
Love it.
I didn't think we were gonna gothis route, but I but I I it
was a detour, but when I waspreparing, I was like, oh, I
gotta ask her about this bookbecause I was really intrigued.
All right, back to Unbroken.
You you wrote this book.
What did you learn from thispersonally that surprised you
the most?
Karyn Shanks, MD (40:42):
I knew I saw the story arc of the, you know,
the why did this happen?
Why do we feel broken whenwe're sick?
Why do we slip through thecracks?
Why do we feel stuck?
And so I saw that whole startstory arc and then into what's
the truth?
What's the current science thatshows us we have all this
untapped potential?
(41:02):
And there is a roadmap that canhelp us shift our genetic
expression, shift our stories,shift all our life outcomes.
I saw that, but as I really gotinto it and did my research and
and put the details in, I wasreally amazed at how much trauma
is part of everything.
It's even part of, you know, wecan be re so ready.
(41:25):
We're ready to change, weunderstand epigenetics and
neuroplasticity, we understandour limiting stories, and we see
the the you know, the moresupporting, empowering stories,
and we're ready to go, and wechoose our things, and maybe
it's a little, we want to dodiet and movement or whatever.
And then we start to try tochange something, and we're
(41:48):
we're hit between the eyes bymaybe what that thing we're
giving up or we're trying tochange actually did for us.
Like food is really, and youyou would you know this very
well.
Uh, let's give up the cookiesand the sugar.
It's not till we drop them outthat many of us learn that we
were using that as a drug.
(42:09):
We were treating ourdepression, our, you know, our
wanting to feel more energeticand alive, our what, whatever,
whatever the thing is.
So just how much trauma playsinto both the genesis of
illness, but also is often aroadblock to our being being
able to change even the simplestthings.
(42:31):
Yeah.
So we always have to be whenwe're working with folks, we we
have to work with them in a veryindividualistic way, in a very
personalized way.
So we're meeting them wherewe're they're at, and we
understand all the players andwhy they are where they're they
are right now, which includestheir trauma, their limiting
(42:54):
stories that um are traumasignatures, um, and be prepared
to help them with that.
Michele Folan (43:00):
Yeah, I love this.
You know, would you be able toshare uh a story from one of
your patients that continues tostay with you today?
Karyn Shanks, MD (43:09):
Yeah, I I've had lots of fascinating clients
and yeah, it really coolstories, but one that comes to
mind because the strategy forher moving from a very
dysfunctional place to a veryexciting healed place all had
(43:30):
almost a hundred percent to dowith uh helping her find the
appropriate inroad for her.
She was uh early 30s, had aone-year-old baby, um, husband
was deployed overseas, full-timejob with toxic elements, total
overwhelm, fatigue, eatingcrappily because she didn't have
(43:54):
the energy to pull healthymeals together when she got
home.
Just not sleeping, you know,just this huge.
Now, could I have identified 10to 15 things that needed to be
fit, you know, needed to beshifted around and improved
upon?
Yes.
Could she have done any ofthem?
No.
So one thing that came outwhile I was talking to her is
(44:14):
that she loves to sew and shewas a master seamstress and had
a whole room in her housedevoted to sewing, all the
machines and all the things shecould sew in her sleep.
So her her only prescriptionfor that for after that first
encounter was to start to sew.
So, because what I wanted to dowas get her out of her head and
(44:34):
her suffering, I wanted to gether in her body because I knew
that wisdom was right insideher.
She'd know what to do.
And so she started coming homefrom work, feeding her baby,
putting baby to bed, and sewing.
And she got lost in it.
And it sort of put her back inher body.
She was able to get out of herhead, she was unwinding.
(44:56):
She, and I think we followed uptwo to three weeks later, and
we had, you know, labs to goover and stuff.
And she was like a completelynew person.
Like she, while sitting there,figured some things out on her
own.
And she had quit her job.
She was in the process ofapplying for jobs at that time.
She yeah, she saw the she sawthe where she needed to go.
(45:20):
And she was also feeling betterfor that.
She was sleeping better, herenergy was up.
She and that that was just anincredible example of how
important it is to meet peoplewhere they're at and not throw a
protocol at them becauseeverybody needs their own way.
And also they have the wisdomthey need.
(45:41):
I mean, they need help.
We all need we all need a team,right?
We all need someone to show ussome of the stuff we don't know.
But um, we all have the wisdomto know at least what direction
we need to go.
Michele Folan (45:52):
Oh, I love that.
Karyn Shanks, MD (45:54):
That was a great experience that taught me
a lot.
Michele Folan (45:57):
Yeah.
How's she doing now?
Karyn Shanks, MD (45:59):
I haven't talked to her in a few years
because she like, you know, shedid great and flew away.
I hope she's doing well.
I she was doing very well whenat the last last visit.
Great.
Michele Folan (46:11):
Now, in terms of you as a doctor and I think
slash therapist, because of allthe incredible work you do, what
is one of your own self-carenon-negotiables that keeps you
grounded and whole?
I know, I know.
I mean, you probably have awhole long list.
What's what's your main what'syour main one?
Karyn Shanks, MD (46:32):
Well, the first thing I do in the morning
every single day, before I donot look at my phone, I don't
look at email, I don't look atnews.
I I get up, I grab my cup ofcoffee, I do drink coffee, I
love coffee, and I think thereare health benefits to it.
I know I'm being defensive, I'mnot my coffee and I go to my
(46:54):
meditation chair, and I havethis beautiful spot uh with big
windows looking out over nature,and I do my meditation, which
is a mishmash of a bunch ofthings I've pulled together over
the years that make me feelsoothed and settled and
connected.
I do, I write, I have ajournal, so there's always a
little bit of writing that'sinvolved, but that's how I start
(47:17):
the day.
Sets the tone, it connects meto me and my like authentic self
so that I can bring that toeverything I do.
It's really important.
That's an important form uhsource of grounding for me.
So that's how I start my daybefore anything else.
I don't let anything get in theway of it.
Michele Folan (47:34):
You know, I think we all should listen to Dr.
Karyn Shanks here because yousaid something that I think is
some something that's reallytough for people to do, but it's
a good practice to start, isdon't get on the damn phone
first thing in the morningbecause it it it distracts you
from doing some of that innerwork, and then then you're off
(47:55):
to the races, right?
Then you can open your emailand you're then you're then
you've totally blown.
Karyn Shanks, MD (48:00):
That's how they're designed, right?
They're designed to like bringyou in and keep you sucked in.
Michele Folan (48:06):
I love that advice.
And I I just had to add thatlittle bit at the end.
Dr.
Karyn Shanks, where canlisteners find your new book and
connect with your work?
Karyn Shanks, MD (48:16):
Thank you.
So my new book, which is calledUnbroken, Reclaim Your
Wholeness, will be available atall book major booksellers on
111125.
So that's coming up.
And I'm really excited aboutthis book.
And yeah, it it will takeeverything we discussed today
and sort of flesh it out andmake it really accessible and
(48:40):
practical and easy for you.
Because if it's easy, we'll doit.
And if we do it, it leads to asuccess, which leads to another
success.
So I mean, yeah, it's reallyit's simple practices, micro
practices, is what I call them.
And then my website is my hub,www.caren shanksmd.com.
(49:01):
That'sk-ar-y-n-s-h-a-n-k-s-md.com.
And I do have a small presenceon social media.
I'm I post there.
I'm not, I don't want to evenopen the app.
It's a necessary evil, Karyn.
Sorry.
I know, I know.
(49:22):
But my website will lead you toall of my work.
Michele Folan (49:26):
All right.
I'm gonna put that in the shownotes.
And for anyone, and not evenjust for yourself, but maybe you
have a friend or a familymember that really could use
some of these tools to help themfeel more whole.
Um, I think this would be agreat gift.
We're getting into the holidayseason.
(49:48):
So I'd love suggesting booksbecause particularly self-help
books, because I think they'rereally given with love.
Karyn Shanks, MD (49:54):
Absolutely.
My this is this was writtenwith so much love.
Yeah.
Michele Folan (49:58):
Yes.
Dr.
Karyn Shanks, thank you forbeing a guest today on Asking
for a Friend.
Thank you so much.
Thank you for listening.
Please rate and review thepodcast where you listen.
And if you'd like to join theAsking for a Friend community,
click on the link in the shownotes to sign up for my weekly
newsletter where I share midlifewellness and fitness tips,
(50:20):
insights, my favorite finds, andrecipes.
The new year is coming, and with it that
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We're removing the taboo fromwhat really matters in midlife.
So many women in midlife feelstuck.
You've done the labs, you'veseen the specialists, you've
taken the supplements, and yetyou're still exhausted,
(01:46):
inflamed, and wondering if thisis your new normal.
My guest today, Dr.
Karyn Shanks, says you are notbroken.
She's a physician, author, andpioneer in whole person healing
whose work sits at theintersection of cutting-edge
science, trauma-informed care,and what she calls soulful
personal agency.
(02:06):
For over three decades, Dr.
Shanks has helped thousands ofpatients recover their lives
from chronic illness, burnout,and emotional disconnection, not
by chasing symptoms, but byteaching people to listen to the
intelligent messages theirbodies are sending.
Her new book, Unbroken, ReclaimYour Wholeness, challenges the
medical model that fragments us,separating the body from mind
(02:29):
and science from soul, andinvites us to reframe illness,
not as a flaw, but as a call toreconnect with ourselves.
In this conversation, we unpackwhat it really means to heal
from the inside out, from thebiology of safety and connection
to the power of neuroplasticityand epigenetics, to how
(02:50):
perfectionism and ourproductivity culture are
literally making us sick.
If you've ever felt dismissedby a doctor, frustrated by the
lack of answers, or justdisconnected from your own body,
this episode will give you hopeand maybe even a new lens for
what healing really looks like.
Dr.
Karyn Shanks, welcome to Askingfor a Friend.
Karyn Shanks, MD (03:13):
Thank you so much for having me.
And that was a beautifulintroduction.
Beautiful.
Michele Folan (03:17):
Thank you.
It's so funny.
I I've never written a book,but I do like to write, and I
try not to lean on Chat GPT toomuch.
So you know what I mean?
But yeah, so yes, and speakingof books, we will talk a little
bit about your book.
But you've you've been aphysician for over three
(03:39):
decades, so a long time.
And I like to first dig intocareer path and then what led
you to this integrative wholeperson approach?
Karyn Shanks, MD (03:51):
Right.
Wow.
I think that started longbefore I went to medical school
when I had a just a holisticorientation toward people,
friendships, uh, people I workedwith.
I had an early job through mylate teens and into my 20s
throughout college.
I was a home health nurse.
(04:11):
A lot of that was hospice work,and I was in people's homes and
I was getting to know them andI was supporting them in all the
ways.
I got to know their families.
And there was just thisbeautiful empathic connection
that occurred.
And when I got the idea to goto medical school, I thought
that's what I was getting intowas a whole person
(04:34):
connection-based process andrelationships.
And of course, that's not whatmodern Western medicine is fun
is all about.
Right.
Not to say there aren'tphysicians that are very
empathic and caring, but it'sjust not that was not a part of
my training.
Um, so that was my first, like,I was a setup for that mismatch
(04:57):
between how I saw foundationalrelationships with people and
how I experienced them, and thenhow I learned to become to be a
doctor, like all the thingsthat we learned in medical
school and medical training.
There was just an incrediblemismatch.
And then, but I I did it, I didall the training.
I became board certified as aninternist.
(05:18):
But the moment, like day one inthe clinic, as a new practicing
doctor, I realized that whatpeople were coming in with, I
really didn't have the trainingto help them with what they
really needed.
And that led me into more of anexploration into women's health
because especially women'sissues, that we don't learn
(05:41):
anything.
Menopause, PMS, you know, prouh sources of profound
suffering.
And I didn't have a clue whatto do.
So I had to, I had to go learnit.
And then one thing led toanother.
I'm looking at people, youknow, within the medical context
as whole people and pr andlearning to create a practice
(06:02):
model that allowed me to do thatbecause of, you know, you there
are great time constraints.
Oh, yeah.
And I somehow was able to rebeland get away with it in with it
inside the the first uhtraditional practice I was in.
And I eventually found JeffreyBland and the Institute for
Functional Medicine, which getsall goes deep, dives deeply into
(06:24):
uh systems biology and a wholeperson strategy for helping
people heal.
And yes, I I just completelyre-educated myself, but still
with a foot in that camp ofconventional Western medicine,
which I have found to be veryimportant to combining all those
things to help people.
Michele Folan (06:44):
Well, you know, this is something that I hear a
lot of doctors talk about isthat, you know, you work for a
hospital system or a grouppractice where you have 15
minutes to see a to see apatient, right?
And they may be coming in witha whole long list of things,
(07:06):
which is great.
But you in order to figure allthat out, you've got to dig
really deep.
And I think you were sayingthat that you just didn't have
the ability, the time to be ableto do that effectively.
Karyn Shanks, MD (07:20):
That's right.
But I didn't have the time andI didn't have a lot of the
knowledge.
Yeah.
I didn't, you know, I learned adisease model, you know, and a
way of interviewing people thatputs them in a disease box first
and foremost foremost, so thatwe can then apply the right
protocol, one size fits allprotocol, to help them with
(07:40):
their symptoms.
It was just missing a lot ofthe important attributes of who
people are, how they function,and how they heal.
Michele Folan (07:48):
You've personally walked the journey of chronic
illness.
How did your own experience ofbeing a patient reshape your
understanding of healing?
Karyn Shanks, MD (08:02):
I have had a lot of weird things happen to
me.
Michele Folan (08:05):
Oh no.
Karyn Shanks, MD (08:07):
And including a diagnosis that is so often
missed and poorly understood,that's called Erlos-Danlos
hypermobility syndrome, whichcomes with a lot of stretchy,
lax ligaments, low bloodpressure, a variety of issues
that are related to uniqueconnected tissue.
And for years and years andyears, I had one injury after
(08:30):
the other, you know, and the lowblood pressure that I didn't
know about, but caused bouts ofsevere fatigue, like drop-dead
fatigue.
And it was, I was treated likemany parts, many problems.
So I had a zillion diagnoses,you know, shoulder tendinitis,
uh, knee strain, whatever.
I mean, a zillion differentseparate diagnoses.
(08:53):
And at one point, and I writeabout this in the book, so I
won't go into it in detail, butat one point I really crashed
and burned and was sofrustrated.
And I knew I had to find adifferent way of looking at what
was going on with me.
And that's that led me totaking my blood pressure at home
on my own, and it was so low.
Oh my god.
So low.
(09:13):
I got on my it was like 80 over50 sitting and dropped to 70
over 30 standing.
And that is like unsustainableblood pressure.
Oh my God.
I I'm surprised you didn't passout.
I never got dizzy.
I was just so exhausted.
I had to sit down.
You know, I was how old wereyou then?
(09:34):
I when I made that discovery,oh my God, I was like 50.
I was in my early 50s all theway here.
And people were taking my bloodpressure.
Oh, it's low, that's great.
You know, it'd be 90 over 50 inthe office when I should have
white coat hypertension, right?
Exactly.
And they're saying, oh, it'slow, that's great.
But that was a real eurekamoment.
It's like, okay, there's apiece of the puzzle.
(09:56):
I had to figure out thediagnosis on my own.
And not everybody has thatability to do that.
I'm a doctor.
I I can, you know, explorethese things, but it just blew
my mind.
So I got so what I was able todo is get at a root cause.
And root causes are not what wediscover in most encounter,
most Western medicineencounters.
(10:19):
We we look, it really stays ata superficial level and applies
symptomatic fixes.
So that was a real that was ahuge aha for me that I began to
apply to my chronic complexclients.
Michele Folan (10:36):
You know, you use this phrase, we are never truly
broken, which I love, you know,because I told you before we
started recording, you know, weoften say things like, you're
not broken, it's never too late.
Can you share how that beliefbecame the cornerstone of your
work?
Karyn Shanks, MD (10:53):
Because I I began rather than being discrete
parts, uh, bodies composed ofdiscrete parts, organisms
composed of discrete parts, youknow, we've got our body here,
our mind here, our soul way overhere.
And rather than our problemsfitting into this disease box
that is the suggestion that whensomething hurts, when something
(11:17):
makes us suffer, it's a brokenpart of us.
It is bad genes that aremanifesting themselves because
our book of life is unfolding,or something's uh coming to get
us from the outside, like a badvirus.
And it we just we have thisidea that when something hurts,
(11:39):
when we suffer, when we're sick,that something's terribly wrong
with us.
Rather than that all being abeautiful language of the body
that is all wise, that nevergives us incorrect information
about what our unmet needs are,right?
So I just gradually was puttingthat together and seeing that
(12:01):
big great big bird's eye view ofwhat it is to be a human and
what it is to suffer and whatthat all really means.
Michele Folan (12:08):
Yeah.
Karyn Shanks, MD (12:08):
Does that make sense?
Michele Folan (12:10):
It does, because what you're saying is these
symptoms, those things that wefeel are really messages.
Correct.
Karyn Shanks, MD (12:17):
They're messages.
It's wisdom of the body, is Iuh is what I like to say,
because it's that that gives ita reverent quality.
And we don't have reverence forour body in that way.
We don't even see ourselves asthat.
We see ourselves as here's athing that must be fixed, here's
a thing that I can't tolerate,I can't figure out on my own.
(12:37):
It needs to be fixed.
I'm going to give it to thisexpert over here who claims to
have the solution for me, whosees me in a very particular
way, who sees me as a body and abody as a machine composed of
parts.
Because that's the foundationof Western medicine when it
began to evolve it back in the1600, 1700s.
(12:58):
Yeah.
Michele Folan (12:59):
I I this is this is really resonating with me.
And it's all wrong.
It's a wrong way to look atlook at who we are and what we
are.
Karen, we're going to take aquick break and we come back.
I want to talk about thescience of healing.
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They're short chains of aminoacids your body already makes,
(13:22):
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But here's the key (13:33):
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(13:54):
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All right, we're back.
(14:14):
With your work, Karyn, youbring together the fields of
epigenetics, neuroplasticity,and also trauma physiology.
And I want to back up becausewe've used these terms like
epigenetics and neuroplasticityon this show before.
And I don't think I've ever hadanyone explain what they truly
(14:38):
are and how they're connected inthe healing process.
Can you explain this a littlebit?
Sure.
And we can make it reallysimple.
Karyn Shanks, MD (14:46):
And I think it's some there are concepts
that anybody can grasp andprobably new on some level were
true.
Epigenetics is the idea thatour gene expression is not
fixed.
So we all most of us and mostof your listeners grew up during
an era of the gene hypothesis.
So when the genes were firstdiscovered back in the mid-part
(15:09):
of the 1900s, we began, webelieved that that the
information in those genes wasour book of life.
Like genetic destiny.
What happened to our parentswill happen to us.
And the only thing to do is sitback and wait for the thing to
happen, right?
And what we know now, so andthis happened around early
(15:32):
1990s, uh, the genome project,which many people have heard
about, we we discovered thatless than 1% of our genes were
actively coding for proteins,which make all of our structure
and function.
And the rest of them, more than99% of our genes, were
regulatory genes.
(15:52):
They were turning genes on andoff, depending on the
environment and all thecircumstances surrounding those
genes, which is every aspect ofour lives, every thought, every
feeling, every lifestyle habithas an effect on genetic
expression.
So what that says is we canchange our outcomes.
They're not set in stone.
(16:13):
That largely how our genesexpress themselves, thus, how we
operate as humans, is in ourhands.
It's modifiable.
So that's why I often callepigenetics part of this science
of directable human potential,because we have all this
untapped potential inside ourgenome because we can turn genes
(16:36):
on and off, but we can alsodirect the trajectory of that
process to improve our lives.
Michele Folan (16:43):
It makes me feel like oftentimes we blame our
genetics for our lot in life interms of our health many times.
And I so basically what you'resaying is through lifestyle and
other things, that we don't haveto be a slave to our genetics.
Correct.
(17:03):
Got it.
Karyn Shanks, MD (17:04):
We are largely in control of our genetic
destiny.
That's what we've learned.
That's the whole this wholefield of epigenetics.
But even though it's beenaround for like over 50 years,
really coming to the fore in thelast 20 years or so, it's not
there in clinical practice ofmedicine.
It's not in people's mindsetsyet.
(17:24):
It's so deeply like embedded inour being.
Yeah.
It's a powerful story.
The old story of geneticdeterminism is just really
tenacious.
Michele Folan (17:36):
Yeah, we let that be our narrative.
Yeah.
Karyn Shanks, MD (17:40):
Yes.
unknown (17:40):
Yeah.
Karyn Shanks, MD (17:41):
And part of it is that medicine still
propagates that understandingbecause I think and I think a
huge part of it is that it's oneof the foundations of Western
modern medicine.
And it's been hugelyprofitable.
And it's really hard to let goof.
Yeah.
But if we know it, you and meand your audience know it, we
(18:05):
can separate ourselves from thatdependency on the narratives of
Western medicine and begin topractice, uh, exercise those
practices that help us bust outof that narrative and that
limitation to being well.
Michele Folan (18:21):
How do we bust out of the narrative when
there's trauma involved?
Karyn Shanks, MD (18:28):
That is really hard because, first of all,
that's trauma itself.
You are limited by thisreality.
Your genes are your story,right?
That's traumatizing.
That is a traumatizing culturalnarrative.
You are composed of parts thatare separate: mind, body,
spirit.
That's traumatizing.
(18:49):
We disconnect from the truenature of who we are, who we
know we are.
We disconnect from ourfeelings.
We don't even pay attention toour feelings.
What was your originalquestion?
Michele Folan (18:59):
So yeah, how do we well?
Because yeah, trauma, trauma isgoing to is is going to tell us
a whole nother narrative.
Karyn Shanks, MD (19:09):
Yes, it is.
It's because with unresolvedtrauma, and maybe we should
define trauma real quicklybecause a lot of times
misunderstand a lot of peoplemisunderstand what is really
meant.
It's not just those big badevents that happen to you.
Trauma happens to some extentto us all.
So it is, it's things thathappened, and I think if we can
(19:30):
focus on childhood, things thathappened that were did not meet
our needs, our primary needsthat were not repaired, or it's
things that didn't happen thatshould have happened without
repair.
And in order for a young childto manage that kind of uh
(19:52):
situation, they disconnect fromthemselves.
Just quick example (19:56):
the two primary needs of humans are
connection and authenticity ofbeing who we are.
So, as small children,obviously our survival depends
on the connection to our primarycaregivers.
So, so often, and probably allof us have had to do this to
some extent, even if we had themost loving parents on the
(20:18):
planet, is we had to trade whowe actually were for that
connection, that vitalconnection that literally kept
us alive at that time.
So, like, you know, we becamequiet, we learned we couldn't
express certain feelings, wedimmed our light, we weren't as
loud and enthusiastic, we,whatever it was that we had to
(20:38):
give away in order to securethat connection.
So that's what I that's whatI'm talking about.
And so then those disconnectsand those beliefs that we
established very early on basedon those traumatic experiences,
those can operate unconsciouslyand direct our lives in ways we
don't want, limiting beliefs,you know, limiting ideas about
(21:01):
what's possible, that uhfeelings of unworthiness, all
that.
Michele Folan (21:07):
And can those feelings make us sick?
Karyn Shanks, MD (21:11):
Absolutely, because it drives there, those
are all drivers of survivalbiology, the autonomic nervous
system, uh, which is responsiblefor a lot of the things most of
us can identify as being a partof our, you know, and we might
call it high stress or overwhelmor or or whatever, whatever we
(21:32):
are we are calling it, but it'sa a lot of energy and resources
are put toward keeping us safe.
And when that is persistent,when it goes on too long, we can
blow through internal resourcesand no longer have the
resilience or robustness to feelreally good.
(21:53):
Our our biology prioritizessafety over everything else.
So when we're highly stressedor feeling overwhelmed or burned
out or scared, all of thoseresources are going to
prioritize keeping putting us ina place of safety, however that
(22:13):
needs to happen.
And then those those resourcesand energy aren't available for
anything else.
So not only can we become sickbecause we're not supported in
the way we need to be, but ourpotential as humans is limited
as well.
Michele Folan (22:30):
And I find, particularly with my audience,
our age group, you know, 50plus, 55 plus.
We've got adult kids, and Ialways say, bigger kids, bigger
problems.
We've right, Dr.
Shanks laughs, but you knowit's true.
(22:52):
You know, we're the sandwichgeneration, we're taking care of
our parents.
We may still be workingfull-time, we're maybe managing
grandchildren at this point.
Uh, there's maybe financialissues, but whatever it is,
there is this chronic stressthat that I think shows up in in
(23:14):
a lot of different ways.
How do we use, I guess,neuroplasticity or how do we
facilitate healing when we'vegot all this underlying stuff?
Yeah.
Karyn Shanks, MD (23:28):
Well, first is to know that you're operating
according to a limited narrativeor a limiting, limiting story.
Many people don't realize thatwhat they're thinking, what they
believe for sure, what they'vebeen taught, what they're, you
know, the the belief systems oftheir families and communities
(23:51):
and culture, that they're allstories, which means we made
them up.
We made them up.
And that's what the human braindoes.
So we can it's so it'simportant to understand that
that is true.
There, of course, are storiesthat are very supportive.
They're very they uh uh theyopen up our all of our healing
(24:13):
potential and the potential forbeing the best of who we can be.
But there are many stories thatare very limiting, and some of
them come from personal trauma,some of it's you know, cultural
trauma.
So the I think the first stepis to realize that that in fact
is true and that our storiesshould support us and ennoble us
and lead us toward healing.
(24:33):
If they don't, they there'ssomething very wrong.
And we have the authority, eachone of us, to look those
stories straight in the eye andinvite a new story to come in.
And I don't, I don't thinkpeople often, especially the
big, you know, tenaciousstories, this the big cultural
(24:54):
stories, some people don'trealize they get to do that.
We get to do that witheverything.
We can scrutinize every story.
And the more entrenched theyare, the more they really
deserve our our attention.
And then, you know, even that'sthat's hard to do.
So that that's all hard to do,and it's it's hard to um unravel
old stories and create and andcreate new ones.
(25:15):
But we can sort of jump pastthe hurdle of how limiting the
old stories can be because theyare, and the more uh scared we
are, the more traumatized andoverwhelmed and stressed we're
feeling, the harder it is to dothat work.
But we can invite in a newstory and practice it every day
without even believing it, andit can start to um permeate our
(25:40):
thinking.
Michele Folan (25:40):
Yeah.
So I I'm sitting here and I'mI'm nodding because I'm I'm
thinking we have to firstidentify that we know that that
is that old narrative, thatstory is what's holding us back,
making us feel sick, tired,like chronic stress.
And then it's almost likeyou're saying we're manifesting,
(26:03):
but you're it's almost as ifwe're manifesting a new story to
tell ourselves.
And can that be ourself-fulfilling prophecy?
Karyn Shanks, MD (26:14):
Sure.
If we let it stagnate, if welet it, because even a new story
that feels better, feelsrobust, feels like it's moving
us in a better direction, isprobably going to have its own
limitations, right?
So we have to constantly bechecking in with ourselves.
How do we feel?
How does this land?
Are our needs being met?
Do I need to shift this story?
(26:35):
Is there something new to addto it?
And that's daily check-ins.
That's being our witness.
That's why in the book, when Iget to the section on our
practices to call in all thisbeautiful uh potential we may
not know we have.
So um we'd have to constantlybe checking in on the validity
(27:01):
of our stories.
And the number one foundationalpractice that I recommend in my
book as part of our recovery islearning to be present to
ourselves, to present time towhat's going on around us.
Because without thatself-observation and checking
in, we won't even know how tomanage and direct our stories.
Michele Folan (27:26):
When you are with a patient and you're digging
in, you're you've got you've gotsome time and you're you're
having these conversations withpatients.
How do you get to the pointwhere you can pull this stuff
out of someone so that you canfigure out what it is that has
(27:47):
been holding them back?
Karyn Shanks, MD (27:50):
You know, I think the process starts with my
intake questionnaires, whichare, I mean, it must be 50
pages.
There's so much information.
There's a timeline from birthto present time.
And as people are doing that,even though it's such a tall
order and it can be a real painto do all this paperwork, in the
process of doing that, theystart to put together things in
(28:12):
their own mind, like, oh, oh mygosh, this happened to me at
that age.
How that might connect to someaspect of what's going on today.
You know, they just they startputting things together
themselves.
And then when I visit with themfor the first time, and I have
my practice structured so thatthere are no time constraints.
Literally, I have a block offour hours.
(28:34):
We don't always use all thattime, but they then have they're
invited to tell their wholestory no matter how long it
takes.
unknown (28:41):
Wow.
Karyn Shanks, MD (28:42):
And their stories are often very, very
long and very convoluted.
And many people have never hada chance to tell their whole
story before.
So I learn a lot during thattime, and they do too.
And then it's just a it's a aprocess of what I'll call
compassionate inquiry into, youknow, things they say that
(29:02):
suggest to me that there mightbe a a little, you know, a pain
point there, uh, a thepossibility of something
traumatic having happened.
There's uh they show me whatstories might be stuck and
circulating around.
Yeah.
So in in the process of that,that um storytelling, uh, there
(29:23):
are often a lot of signs thatthere are other things
operating.
There are stories operating,there are beliefs that are
holding them back.
And then I can gently sort ofbring it up and and then we go
where they're ready to go.
Michele Folan (29:36):
Okay.
And we have this fix itmentality.
Karyn Shanks, MD (29:40):
Yeah.
Michele Folan (29:40):
So some patients may be like, I just need you to
fix me.
Karyn Shanks, MD (29:44):
Right.
Michele Folan (29:45):
You're the doctor, fix me.
And so how much participationdo they have in this process
where they have to some of thatfixing has to come from their
internal drive?
Karyn Shanks, MD (29:56):
Most people, by the time they see me, they've
already slept.
Through the cracks.
They have some chronic complexissue going on.
They've slipped through thecracks.
They're already disillbeginning to know that they're
disillusioned with what peoplehave been able to do for them so
far.
So they're already shiftingtheir mindset a bit.
(30:17):
But I some I often do have toteach them about the
storytelling brain.
And we have, you know, likethat that's one of the education
pieces we have to start with,and the role of trauma in our
biology and gene expression, andhow that and all the stresses
and demands of life can shift usinto an equilibrium of illness,
(30:42):
suffering, pain, whatever itis, and that we are operating at
an equilibrium.
And you don't fix anequilibrium, it's just how
nature works.
That we organisms operate atthe very best of their ability
given present circumstances,resources, energy, knowledge.
Michele Folan (31:03):
What are three small but powerful steps
listeners can take right now tobegin moving toward wholeness?
Because I'm sure there arepeople listening right now that
feel like they have been totallydismissed by their health care
providers.
Karyn Shanks, MD (31:21):
Just because you've been dismissed by your
health care provider, whichwe've all had that experience,
I'm sure.
Yes.
You don't have to dismissyourself.
So what I want people to do andwhat I teach them to do as sort
of the initiation into a wholenew way of managing themselves
and their health is to becometheir witness, to forge a
(31:44):
relationship with themselves.
So they're not dismissingthemselves.
So they are paying attention towhat's going on inside them.
They're paying attention to thefeelings and the sensations and
the energy states and thesymptoms of their bodies.
And they're checking in in away that isn't asking them to be
(32:06):
fixed, but it's a way ofchecking in in a non-judgmental
way, in a curious way, so thatthey can begin to get to know
what is going on inside them.
Because so many people areliving such high-paced,
distracted lives of overwhelmand lack of rest.
(32:27):
People just aren't checking in.
And we aren't taught in ourculture to check in until we ask
for it as a suffering adult,you know?
Right.
And we're also, especially aswomen, we're taught to put
everyone else's needs before ourown.
And that our value is based onthe ability to do that
successfully.
It's really hard to learn to bea person who checks in with
(32:49):
themselves when all that isgoing on, right?
So it's important to start adaily practice of that.
And that can be really simple.
It can be really simple atfirst and powerful, and then
lead to more as you as you'reready for it and need it.
But one of my favorite simplepractices is first I understand
(33:10):
that there is a me here thatneeds my attention, needs my
attention a hundred percent.
And during the course of theday, I have a feel, let's say
fear is rising up for something.
I can just check in and I tryto check in in a way that's very
tangible because that's whatour primitive brain, our brain
(33:31):
that is designed to keep usalive and to help us survive and
bring us to safety.
That's what that part of ourbrain needs.
It needs tangible.
So I both put my hands firmlyover my heart and I say, I'm
right here.
I'm right here.
So though I already feel betterjust doing that.
You know, my dogs just went offand interrupted my my this
(33:53):
podcast and I got superstressed.
And I'm just right here.
I recognize how that made mefeel.
And then the next thing I liketo add that to that is what do
you need?
What do you need?
And you know, sometimesnobody's asked us that question
in a very long time.
But if we can get in the habitof asking that every day, like I
(34:14):
just right now, as I'm feelingwhat's going on inside, and I
ask that question, I just feelthis like this heart opening,
this like relaxation, like, oh,okay, my needs are important, my
needs are seen.
And we can do that forourselves.
And if you begin to do it everyday and practice every day,
it's like your body, your mind,your nervous system starts to
(34:38):
trust you and to trust thatyou're checking in and that you
are worthy of that kind of care.
That's huge.
Michele Folan (34:45):
Yeah.
If that's how you do that, youknow that's really hard for
women to do.
Karyn Shanks, MD (34:51):
It was hard for me.
It felt so awkward.
Like, ooh, ooh, but I just Ihad a therapist who taught that
to me, uh, a trauma therapistand who practiced a therapeutic
approach for trauma calledcompassionate inquiry.
And the first thing we do ischeck in and notice what's there
(35:12):
without judgment, not fixingbecause we want to understand
what's going on is the wisdom ofour bodies, whether it's a an
emotion or a symptom of somekind, pain, whatever.
We just want to we want to lookat it with curiosity and not
jump in and try to fix it.
That's the first step.
So we can understand what it'strying to tell us.
(35:32):
And then we ask, what do youneed?
And sometimes the answerdoesn't come.
So I always tell people, askwhat you ask the feeling,
sensation, whatever, what youneed, and then let it go.
Because very likely that answeris going to show up.
It's going to drop right inyour lap at some point during
the day while you're driving,while you're, you know,
showering, while you'reshopping, whatever.
(35:55):
There's going to be somethingthat drops in as an answer to
that question.
Michele Folan (35:59):
You know, what you're really asking people to
do, I guess I'm maybeparaphrasing, it's really about
being more intuitive aboutyourself.
It's like, you know, it's we wewe go, go, go, go, go, and we
do do do for other people, butwe don't take that time to
(36:19):
really check in with ourselves.
And I think this is sopowerful.
That's right.
Karyn Shanks, MD (36:24):
But it's a muscle.
That intuition is a muscle, andwe have to work it.
We have to get our reps in.
And if we start showing upevery day, even in that simple
little practice I just showedyou that I like to do, you're
gonna develop that intuition.
And it's pretty soon, boom,you're gonna you're you're
feeling something, boom, you'reright there listening.
Michele Folan (36:45):
It'd be really helpful if we would learn these
skills before we turn 61, like Iam.
Karyn Shanks, MD (36:53):
Imagine if we taught every child to check in.
Michele Folan (36:57):
Yeah, I know.
You know, it's to me, it'sself-care.
It's it's this is all just anextension of really good
self-care.
Karyn Shanks, MD (37:05):
Yeah.
Michele Folan (37:06):
And you've written multiple books on
healing.
And I I we're gonna talk aboutunbroken, but you also did a
book on the wisdom of COVID-19,and I have no idea what that's
about, but I have to ask.
Karyn Shanks, MD (37:22):
Oh my gosh.
That whole thing, the responseto COVID drove me absolutely out
of my mind.
Because, and it was more likethe way we chose to look at it,
which we which Western medicinelooked at it in a very
predictable way.
(37:43):
A bad, bad, bad virus came andgot us.
Okay.
It has a lot of that, it's avirus, it's very good at
survival.
But the truth about gettingsick from microorganisms is that
it's a relationship between thehost, the person who gets sick,
and that organism.
It's a relationship.
(38:04):
So, one thing we learned veryearly in the pandemic is that
the people who got the sickestwent to the hospital and died,
were people who were alreadyprofoundly vulnerable to the
effects of the virus because ofother chronic health conditions
that they already had.
And you know that that we havea pandemic of chronic
(38:26):
self-inflicted chronic illness.
Yep.
And that make that makes peopleso vulnerable.
So I was so upset that thefocus was all on the virus and
it wasn't on the you know, theobservation that human
vulnerability may have been themore important part of that
(38:47):
pandemic and the devastation ofit all.
So I had to write a book.
Michele Folan (38:50):
I just had to read as she pounds her desk.
You know what though?
You know what though, myhusband and I had talked about
this, and and we never took theopportunity to talk to people
during the pandemic about getoutside, exercise, prevention is
key.
(39:11):
You know, yeah, what's thelesson learned here about this
type of virus?
And you know, maybe it won't bethe last, but was there a
missed opportunity there to havesome clear messaging on don't
be this person that putsyourself at horrible risk?
(39:32):
I mean, if you're 92 years old,I get it.
But we we have a choice now atthe age of 55, 60, 65, to change
the narrative on how we wantour health outcomes, right?
Karyn Shanks, MD (39:47):
And change our bodies and literally change how
resilient and robust we can bein the face of any challenge.
Yes.
We can do that.
I don't care what's going onwith you or how you're
suffering, we can improve yourcircumstances and move you to an
equilibrium of resilience androbustness.
(40:07):
And we we know how to do it.
We can you you're the peopleyou work with, whether it's your
coach, your nutritionist, yourdoc, your whatever, we can show
you, show you that roadmap.
And then you can pick andchoose what you want to work on
today.
Michele Folan (40:21):
Love it.
I didn't think we were gonna gothis route, but I but I I it
was a detour, but when I waspreparing, I was like, oh, I
gotta ask her about this bookbecause I was really intrigued.
All right, back to Unbroken.
You you wrote this book.
What did you learn from thispersonally that surprised you
the most?
Karyn Shanks, MD (40:42):
I knew I saw the story arc of the, you know,
the why did this happen?
Why do we feel broken whenwe're sick?
Why do we slip through thecracks?
Why do we feel stuck?
And so I saw that whole startstory arc and then into what's
the truth?
What's the current science thatshows us we have all this
untapped potential?
(41:02):
And there is a roadmap that canhelp us shift our genetic
expression, shift our stories,shift all our life outcomes.
I saw that, but as I really gotinto it and did my research and
and put the details in, I wasreally amazed at how much trauma
is part of everything.
It's even part of, you know, wecan be re so ready.
(41:25):
We're ready to change, weunderstand epigenetics and
neuroplasticity, we understandour limiting stories, and we see
the the you know, the moresupporting, empowering stories,
and we're ready to go, and wechoose our things, and maybe
it's a little, we want to dodiet and movement or whatever.
And then we start to try tochange something, and we're
(41:48):
we're hit between the eyes bymaybe what that thing we're
giving up or we're trying tochange actually did for us.
Like food is really, and youyou would you know this very
well.
Uh, let's give up the cookiesand the sugar.
It's not till we drop them outthat many of us learn that we
were using that as a drug.
(42:09):
We were treating ourdepression, our, you know, our
wanting to feel more energeticand alive, our what, whatever,
whatever the thing is.
So just how much trauma playsinto both the genesis of
illness, but also is often aroadblock to our being being
able to change even the simplestthings.
(42:31):
Yeah.
So we always have to be whenwe're working with folks, we we
have to work with them in a veryindividualistic way, in a very
personalized way.
So we're meeting them wherewe're they're at, and we
understand all the players andwhy they are where they're they
are right now, which includestheir trauma, their limiting
(42:54):
stories that um are traumasignatures, um, and be prepared
to help them with that.
Michele Folan (43:00):
Yeah, I love this.
You know, would you be able toshare uh a story from one of
your patients that continues tostay with you today?
Karyn Shanks, MD (43:09):
Yeah, I I've had lots of fascinating clients
and yeah, it really coolstories, but one that comes to
mind because the strategy forher moving from a very
dysfunctional place to a veryexciting healed place all had
(43:30):
almost a hundred percent to dowith uh helping her find the
appropriate inroad for her.
She was uh early 30s, had aone-year-old baby, um, husband
was deployed overseas, full-timejob with toxic elements, total
overwhelm, fatigue, eatingcrappily because she didn't have
(43:54):
the energy to pull healthymeals together when she got
home.
Just not sleeping, you know,just this huge.
Now, could I have identified 10to 15 things that needed to be
fit, you know, needed to beshifted around and improved
upon?
Yes.
Could she have done any ofthem?
No.
So one thing that came outwhile I was talking to her is
(44:14):
that she loves to sew and shewas a master seamstress and had
a whole room in her housedevoted to sewing, all the
machines and all the things shecould sew in her sleep.
So her her only prescriptionfor that for after that first
encounter was to start to sew.
So, because what I wanted to dowas get her out of her head and
(44:34):
her suffering, I wanted to gether in her body because I knew
that wisdom was right insideher.
She'd know what to do.
And so she started coming homefrom work, feeding her baby,
putting baby to bed, and sewing.
And she got lost in it.
And it sort of put her back inher body.
She was able to get out of herhead, she was unwinding.
(44:56):
She, and I think we followed uptwo to three weeks later, and
we had, you know, labs to goover and stuff.
And she was like a completelynew person.
Like she, while sitting there,figured some things out on her
own.
And she had quit her job.
She was in the process ofapplying for jobs at that time.
She yeah, she saw the she sawthe where she needed to go.
(45:20):
And she was also feeling betterfor that.
She was sleeping better, herenergy was up.
She and that that was just anincredible example of how
important it is to meet peoplewhere they're at and not throw a
protocol at them becauseeverybody needs their own way.
And also they have the wisdomthey need.
(45:41):
I mean, they need help.
We all need we all need a team,right?
We all need someone to show ussome of the stuff we don't know.
But um, we all have the wisdomto know at least what direction
we need to go.
Michele Folan (45:52):
Oh, I love that.
Karyn Shanks, MD (45:54):
That was a great experience that taught me
a lot.
Michele Folan (45:57):
Yeah.
How's she doing now?
Karyn Shanks, MD (45:59):
I haven't talked to her in a few years
because she like, you know, shedid great and flew away.
I hope she's doing well.
I she was doing very well whenat the last last visit.
Great.
Michele Folan (46:11):
Now, in terms of you as a doctor and I think
slash therapist, because of allthe incredible work you do, what
is one of your own self-carenon-negotiables that keeps you
grounded and whole?
I know, I know.
I mean, you probably have awhole long list.
What's what's your main what'syour main one?
Karyn Shanks, MD (46:32):
Well, the first thing I do in the morning
every single day, before I donot look at my phone, I don't
look at email, I don't look atnews.
I I get up, I grab my cup ofcoffee, I do drink coffee, I
love coffee, and I think thereare health benefits to it.
I know I'm being defensive, I'mnot my coffee and I go to my
(46:54):
meditation chair, and I havethis beautiful spot uh with big
windows looking out over nature,and I do my meditation, which
is a mishmash of a bunch ofthings I've pulled together over
the years that make me feelsoothed and settled and
connected.
I do, I write, I have ajournal, so there's always a
little bit of writing that'sinvolved, but that's how I start
(47:17):
the day.
Sets the tone, it connects meto me and my like authentic self
so that I can bring that toeverything I do.
It's really important.
That's an important form uhsource of grounding for me.
So that's how I start my daybefore anything else.
I don't let anything get in theway of it.
Michele Folan (47:34):
You know, I think we all should listen to Dr.
Karyn Shanks here because yousaid something that I think is
some something that's reallytough for people to do, but it's
a good practice to start, isdon't get on the damn phone
first thing in the morningbecause it it it distracts you
from doing some of that innerwork, and then then you're off
(47:55):
to the races, right?
Then you can open your emailand you're then you're then
you've totally blown.
Karyn Shanks, MD (48:00):
That's how they're designed, right?
They're designed to like bringyou in and keep you sucked in.
Michele Folan (48:06):
I love that advice.
And I I just had to add thatlittle bit at the end.
Dr.
Karyn Shanks, where canlisteners find your new book and
connect with your work?
Karyn Shanks, MD (48:16):
Thank you.
So my new book, which is calledUnbroken, Reclaim Your
Wholeness, will be available atall book major booksellers on
111125.
So that's coming up.
And I'm really excited aboutthis book.
And yeah, it it will takeeverything we discussed today
and sort of flesh it out andmake it really accessible and
(48:40):
practical and easy for you.
Because if it's easy, we'll doit.
And if we do it, it leads to asuccess, which leads to another
success.
So I mean, yeah, it's reallyit's simple practices, micro
practices, is what I call them.
And then my website is my hub,www.caren shanksmd.com.
(49:01):
That'sk-ar-y-n-s-h-a-n-k-s-md.com.
And I do have a small presenceon social media.
I'm I post there.
I'm not, I don't want to evenopen the app.
It's a necessary evil, Karyn.
Sorry.
I know, I know.
(49:22):
But my website will lead you toall of my work.
Michele Folan (49:26):
All right.
I'm gonna put that in the shownotes.
And for anyone, and not evenjust for yourself, but maybe you
have a friend or a familymember that really could use
some of these tools to help themfeel more whole.
Um, I think this would be agreat gift.
We're getting into the holidayseason.
(49:48):
So I'd love suggesting booksbecause particularly self-help
books, because I think they'rereally given with love.
Karyn Shanks, MD (49:54):
Absolutely.
My this is this was writtenwith so much love.
Yeah.
Michele Folan (49:58):
Yes.
Dr.
Karyn Shanks, thank you forbeing a guest today on Asking
for a Friend.
Thank you so much.
Thank you for listening.
Please rate and review thepodcast where you listen.
And if you'd like to join theAsking for a Friend community,
click on the link in the shownotes to sign up for my weekly
newsletter where I share midlifewellness and fitness tips,
(50:20):
insights, my favorite finds, andrecipes.
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