#86: In Search of Balance - Embracing Our Humanity and the Divine Within (w/ Melissa Harris)

Have you ever pondered about the intriguing paradox of human existence; how we simultaneously encapsulate both the physicality of being human and the spirituality of divinity? Join me, along with  Melissa Harris, as we dive into this topic. We invite you to discover the rhythms of humanity - the collective earthly experience, our personal day-to-day trials and tribulations, and the emotional and cognitive phenomena that make us who we are. Equally, we'll delve into the essence of divinity and how our spiritual connectedness is woven into our being and echoes in the world around us.

We discuss the limitations of black-and-white thinking and the importance of embracing curiosity to find a deeper connection with the divine within ourselves. Melissa and I touch on the significance of balancing faith and openness, forgiveness, and the idea that all world religions share a common message of love and harmony.

In today's episode we'll cover:
1.  That we are a living paradox - one in which we can be fully human and fully divine at the same time, and how our awareness of this leads to wholeness.

2.  That everything in our experience is sacred and is part of our connection with {mystery, Universe, God}.

3.  That the more we can release our grasp on certainty of belief and surrender to something beyond the limits of our minds, the deeper we can connect with the {mystery, Universe, God}.

Grab the full show notes and resources for this episode at https://www.cairnyogawellness.com/podcast86. 
Subscribe wherever you catch your podcasts.

Resources:
Check out Melissa's Book Pre-sale Here - Use REGISTRATION code UNITY (all caps) for a discount on any package

Follow Melissa:
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Other Resources:
Join me for a weekly virtual breathwork session - all sessions recorded, and you have access to all previously recorded sessions - Breathe to Flow Breathwork Class.

With Fall being right around the corner, it's time to celebrate our rhythms again - Harvest Moon Celebration of Rhythms Yoga + Releasing Gathering.

Get back into a routine this Fall and start tracking your rhythms as you do so - Daily Rhythms Tracker

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More Episodes Like This One:
#28: Spiritual Connectedness with Melissa Harris
#57: Spiritual Does NOT Equal

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this paradox, one in which wecan be fully human and fully
divine at the same time, and ourawareness of this leads to our

(00:26):
wholeness.
Music, welcome to Help Harmonyand Happiness with Kathy.
I'm your host, kathy Stricker.
I'm a state patrol wife, mamato three lively kiddos, a yoga

(00:46):
teacher, certified NLP coach andan energetic rhythms expert.
As an energetic rhythms coach,I help action taking women use
their bodies' rhythms and themoons cycle to optimize
productivity and avoid burnout,without letting their desire to
remain in control alter theirfocus, and this podcast is all
about doing just that, andperhaps a bit more, so that you

(01:09):
can create your own path tohealth, harmony and happiness.
So come along with me, and maythis episode serve as a nudge to
discover tools that could helpyou on your path towards more
intentional living.
Enjoy the show, music.
Hey, friends, welcome toepisode 86.

(01:30):
Thank you so much for beinghere.
I am truly grateful that youare here listening to this show
and I hope that you're gettingstuff out of these episodes If
you haven't shared this podcastwith someone else.
This is your nudge to maybejust find your favorite episode.
It might be this one after you,listen to it today and share it

(01:53):
with someone else.
Let them know what you've beenlistening to and let them in on
the fun as well.
On with the show.
Today we are welcoming my goodfriend, melissa Harris.
As a young adult, melissastudied psychology in order to
understand humanity.
Eventually, this study turnedinto the world's religions, with

(02:15):
a recognition that in everyculture, religious tradition and
spiritual wisdom have shapedour evolution.
She found a home in themystical origins of the world's
teaching and a new way ofcomprehending what is sacred.
She sees our humanity and ourholiness as one and the same and
believes the way to live fullyis through an unwavering embrace

(02:39):
of both aspects of ourselves.
I interviewed Melissa back onepisode 28 of the podcast and we
talked about the spiritualconnectedness.
During that time, I believe,she was writing her thesis for
her masters and she was gettinga masters in divinity, and since
then she's taking that thesisand turning it into a book.

(03:02):
So she's going to talk to us alittle bit about that today and
we're also going to talk aboutthis paradox that we live in how
our humanity and our divinityare connected, and yet they are
the same.
Welcome, melissa.
I'm so glad that you're heretoday.
Thank you for taking time outof your day and let's chat about

(03:25):
divinity and humanity and allof it.

Speaker 2 (03:28):
All right.
Oh, thank you for having me,kathy.
I really, really appreciatethis.
I went back and listened to ourprevious podcast and remembered
how much I enjoyed it, and I'mreally glad to be back.

Speaker 1 (03:40):
Awesome, me too.
It is such a good episode.
I haven't listened to thatepisode.
It's episode 28.
Check it out after you're donelistening to this episode and
let us know what you think weare talking today about.
Living in a world where maybethings aren't so black and white

(04:00):
, where, when we can find ourhumanity and our divinity and
see them as one instead ofseparate, we can live in harmony
, right, right?
So before we get started, let'sdo a little rundown of some
definitions, just so that we'reall clear.
We don't want this episode tobe something that you zone out,

(04:25):
that you check out, or that youthink that is really deep stuff,
too much way over my head.
We want to invite you into thisconversation so that you have a
better understanding and sothat you can maybe just shift
perspective or perception alittle bit in life and start to
connect these concepts and ideaswith not only yourself, but

(04:48):
also with the people that youinteract with and how you show
up in this world.
So, that being said, melissa,let's talk about humanity first,
because that's even a word that, yes, we are all humans.
We don't use the word humanitythat often in everyday language,
so tell us what your take on itis.

Speaker 2 (05:10):
Well we don't.
You're right, and I think it'ssomething that we maybe take for
granted.
So I think of humanity as twodifferent things.
I think humanity as thecollective of all of us and how
we're living and existing onthis earth as humans, the whole
of humanity Within ourselves.
I think of humanity as thething that I would say we take
for granted.
It's our body and our minds andour perceptions of how we exist

(05:35):
.
So our humanity is ourday-to-day living in this body.
It's the pains that we feel andthe thoughts that we think and
the emotions that we experience.
I think of all of those as ourindividual humanity.

Speaker 1 (05:51):
So it's how we live our lives, who we are, our
presence and how we're showingup in this world.

Speaker 2 (06:00):
Yeah, yeah, okay, and that's a little bit needs to be
paired with the divinity aspect, so if it's okay, I'll go to
that definition.

Speaker 1 (06:11):
Absolutely.

Speaker 2 (06:11):
Yep.
So I've studied a lot of theworld's religions, and so some
of them have us as humans, asseparate from what you might
call God.
Some people call God, somepeople call the universe.
We all have differentdefinitions.
Other teachings will tell usthat, let's say, we meditate

(06:32):
enough and make a connection tothat thing that is higher than
us or bigger than us, that weneed to transcend our humanity,
we need to get out of our bodies, we need to get away from our
minds and empty them and clearthem in order to be connected to
the divine.
To me, the divinity isn't thatseparate shing either.

(06:52):
It isn't an outside thing.
It is all within us, withinthis humanity.
It's not just ethereal oresoteric, it's in ourselves and
in our tissues and in our bloodand in our breath especially.
I think you and I have talkedabout that before.
Yeah, I feel like when I'mbreathing, I'm breathing God,

(07:16):
the Holy Spirit, divinity.

Speaker 1 (07:19):
Right, and I just picture this light within me.
I don't know when this thoughtfirst happened for me or this
belief, but I feel like for avery long time this is how I've
believed that God is within meand it's that light within me.
So when I'm teaching kidsespecially, this is where I feel

(07:41):
like it always comes up is thatit's easy for them to imagine
this light inside of them, right, that light inside of us is the
divinity.
So I love that, because this issomething that I feel like I've
struggled with for a long time,because often in the mystical

(08:03):
world or in the spiritual worldI guess, not just religious
world, but spiritual world, soany other spiritual disciplines
you are exactly right.
That is the thing that it seemspeople are seeking is how do
you get to this enlightenedplace?
How do we get to this otherplace where we are so blissful

(08:24):
and enlightened?
That that's where we are, butit kind of sounds like what
you're saying is it's all withinus already, right, like we have
to look inward, we have toacknowledge our human existence
here and also realize that thatdivinity, that spiritual
presence, is within us as well.

(08:45):
Exactly.

Speaker 2 (08:47):
Yeah, I think that's it.
There's no need to liketranscend or get outside of
ourselves to find our divinityor to find God or to find spirit
.
We almost can think in and findit just as easily, sometimes
more easily, that if you can seeor feel or sense that light

(09:10):
within you, that's your divinityRight there, like in this
existence, right there where weare, in this body that we're
moving or these thoughts thatwe're having or these emotions,
even when they're uncomfortable.

Speaker 1 (09:24):
Yeah, and that's flowing, that's being in flow.
You know, yeah, that is the,and sometimes it takes those
other spiritual practices.
It takes yoga, it takes breathwork, it takes meditation, it
takes journaling, it takes allthe other things in order to
find that stillness withinourselves so that we can connect

(09:46):
with that energy, that lightenergy within us, which is our
divinity.
And once we are connected, wow,like there's not much you can't
do, because when you're livingin that state of flow, when you
are going with the currentinstead of paddling against it,
life is so much easier.

(10:06):
Right, you're right right.

Speaker 2 (10:08):
And those practices you know all of them give us
this experience.
During the practice, you know,sometimes it's frustrating if
you're meditating and you can'tsettle your mind.
It gets frustrating.
But sometimes you get that flow, you get that moment of which
does feel like and can be purebliss.
But the point of the practicesisn't for that moment, it's

(10:30):
great in that moment.
But the point of the practiceis that we're practicing so that
we can be present all the othertimes of the day, like it's not
practice.
So then, when I'm having astruggle with work or I'm having
an argument with someone, I canstill be present in that moment
and I don't kind of check outand go to a specific or an

(10:53):
extreme emotion.
I can stay there and breathe,which is something that usually
works for me, like take a breathand go okay, wait a minute,
what am I feeling here?
What's going on?
Why am I reacting this way?
You know, all of thosepractices help us be present,
and present is such a kind ofoverused word, in the spiritual

(11:15):
world especially.
But it's the truth, it's thething that keeps us yeah, keeps
us going, keeps us in that flow,I think.

Speaker 1 (11:24):
Yeah, yeah, and it's a practice.
That is the beautiful thing.
It is practice.
We're not gonna nail it everytime, we're not gonna be able to
find that space of calm andstillness every time we're
triggered, every time we havesomething that's agitating our
nervous system.
But we keep practicing becauseit is that connection and the

(11:48):
more we do it, the easier it isto access.

Speaker 2 (11:53):
Yes, yeah, exactly, I think that's you know.
The other thing that I noticeabout it is that it comes in
waves for me, like depending onwhat's going on in my life.
Sometimes I feel like, you know, it's all kind of flowing along
and it's all going pretty good,and then something might happen
.
It might be a loss, it might besomething that just sets us

(12:16):
what we feel like is sets usback, and then we're doing this
practice, but it's not lookingout in the real world like that
really easy breezy flow.
We have to just come back to thepractice, and we'll come back
to that, but it always goes inwaves.
I think you know we want to seethe full trajectory of moving

(12:40):
along the spiritual path, but tome, I remember reading once
that it's a dance, and sometimesit's a two steps forward, one
step back dance.
The steps backwards are just asimportant, and so that's when
the practice really comes intoplay is almost like steps
backwards.

Speaker 1 (12:56):
You got to it's part of the dance, but you got to
practice.
I like to think of it as thatupward spiral.
Right, we're going around themountain and, even though we may
revisit the same issue, we canlook down and see where we've
been with that issue.
We can look and see oh yeah,you know what.
I've done this before I canmake it through it and I'm going

(13:17):
to keep moving forward, eventhough it feels like I'm moving
backwards or even though I'vehit some more rocks or some
bumps in the trail.

Speaker 2 (13:24):
So yeah, progress never goes away, even when I
feel like you stepped backwards,it's not just gone from you,
it's just that your experienceis feeling a different place in
a different way right now, andbut you still have that
experience within you and tomove forward from.

Speaker 1 (13:41):
Yeah, yeah, and I think that's something that
sometimes people get in theirown way about if they've done
something, if they've tried andthen regressed, tried and then
regressed, tried and regressed,and they're at this point in
life where they are consideringtrying again, but they know that

(14:02):
they've regressed or I don'treally want to say failed,
because it's learning, right we?

Speaker 2 (14:07):
fail forward.

Speaker 1 (14:11):
But they've gone out of the habit of doing something.
To be able to start again meansexactly what you just said.
You're starting again with allthat other experience under your
belt, with all those othertimes of doing it, and but this
time you've also come farther onyour journey.
You know a little bit more.

(14:31):
You're ready to step forward ina different way.

Speaker 2 (14:37):
Yeah, and I think too I'm thinking about you and I.
We've known each other forabout 10 years now and we've
both evolved through ourpractices, Like and I'm sure
before we knew each other, wewere already evolving through
our practices.
There are things that workedfor us at certain seasons in our
lives and then maybe theystopped working for a little bit
and you try again.

(14:58):
Maybe it's time to move to adifferent practice, Like that
practice was a starting board, astarting place that got you to
a certain level, and now it'stime for a new practice.
And that doesn't mean thatpractice wasn't beneficial or
didn't give you exactly what itneeded.
Even if it doesn't work anymoretoday.
Right, the thing you needed toget you to whatever practice

(15:20):
you're evolving to today.

Speaker 1 (15:22):
Yeah, so beautiful, so beautiful.
Yes, we totally went off ofhumanity and divinity, but
that's okay.
That's okay, let's bring itback.

Speaker 2 (15:36):
Like, I think that's it, though I think that's all
part of it the practices that wedo bring our humanity and our
divinity together, a perceptionof our humanity and our divinity
together.
I think that's for those of usthat are spiritual seekers.
I think that's why we do it.
I don't know, I may be speakingfor other people there and I

(15:58):
shouldn't be, but I feel like Ithink you're right.

Speaker 1 (16:00):
I feel like.

Speaker 2 (16:00):
That's why we seek out those things that bring us
to presence and bring us to thatsense of the divine within us.

Speaker 1 (16:09):
Everybody wants ease in life right.
Everybody wants flow, everybodywants life to be easier.
The way to do that is toconnect with yourself, with the
divinity within yourself, rightTo know yourself and to know
that, even though we will haveproblems and we will have

(16:32):
struggles in this life becausethat's guaranteed.
We can still tap into thisbigger energy, but we don't have
to seek outside of us.
We can seek inside.
We can connect with that energyinside of us and also it's

(16:56):
outside of us and around us.

Speaker 2 (16:58):
Yeah, exactly, and I think sometimes in our humanity,
when it's painful, we want toescape pain and we think that
means escaping our humanity.
Our brains will do that becauseour brains have to separate this
pain from this bliss.
Well, divinity doesn't alwaysmean bliss.

(17:21):
We love it when it's there.
But divinity means thisconnection that's always there,
even when we might have somepain or some suffering or some
sadness or some grief orwhatever might be going on.
That doesn't mean the divinityisn't within us.
It means our brains are going.
Well, those can't match, so Imust be separated from it.

(17:41):
And our brains kind of trick usthat way because they like to
divide things into compartmentsand perceive things in certain
ways that make the most sense.

Speaker 1 (17:54):
Yeah, yeah, and I like to think of it, I like to
bring it back to that analogy ofbeing in flow.
There's going to be rapids,right yeah, where there's going
to be rocks that you have tonavigate around, but you are in
control.
You get to decide how you movethrough the rapids, how you move

(18:14):
through the rocks, how younavigate around them, because
you have that connection and Ithink, too, you can't like
separate yourself from it.
You have to go through it, yeah.

Speaker 2 (18:30):
I think the rocks and the rapids is a great analogy
because it also kind of talks toour lack of patience.
So some rocks you just can'tmove Like they're too big,
they're too heavy, they're goingto be an obstruction in your
way.
Well, what can move?
Rocks?
Water.
But it takes a long time it'slike for us to be like water to

(18:57):
have that flow.
You got to be patient and youjust got to keep doing it.
And, man, I have a pain in myback.
I wanted to go away today ortomorrow.
You know what?
I got to let that go.
I'm going to do everything Ican to take care of myself
physically, my humanity, but I'malso recognizing like this is a

(19:18):
season, this is something thatI have to let flow and
eventually wear away thatobstruction so that I'm flowing
more freely.

Speaker 1 (19:29):
Yeah, accept it, allow it, even though it might
be uncomfortable surrender to itExactly.
Exactly, yeah.
And all of those experiences,all of those struggles, all of
those challenges that we face inour human existence, with all

(19:52):
part of our connection with thisdivinity, right yeah, all
things are interconnected.

Speaker 2 (20:01):
All things are interconnected.
Yeah, that's the thing that Icame to a while back was I kept
trying to find something, ateaching, a practice, a faith, a
religion, something out therein order to, like, fully
understand myself.
And there are some incrediblepractices and teachings out

(20:24):
there and I've learned from abunch of them, but what I really
kind of the aha moment I hadwas, well, it all has to be in
here within me, like, no matterwhat tool I use to learn it,
it's coming back to this thingwithin me, this divinity within
me, that is absorbed in myhumanity, absorbed in this

(20:48):
physical experience, absorbed inthese thoughts and these
emotions.
This spirituality, thisconnection is in all of that.

Speaker 1 (20:58):
Yeah, it's in all of that and it's in all of us.
Each action we take triggerssomething else, and we've talked
about that before how anythingthat happens here happens now
essentially is influencingsomething somewhere else in this
world.
The fact that we are meetinghere today means that whatever

(21:19):
else is happening in the world,wherever else we are, energy is
pulled away from, or whomeverelse we are calling in to listen
to this podcast episode.
The energy is there.
We're just allowing it to comeforward, right, but we are all
created with this divinitywithin each of us, whether you

(21:42):
say we're all created aschildren of God, whether you say
we're all created as spiritualbeings, it's all an equal
playing field energetically,right, like we were all put here
, equal energetically, seen aschildren of God, children of the
universe, stewards of ourbodies, of being here on this

(22:08):
earth.
We were created out of the samestuff, right, and we have a
choice then as to how we use ourbody, how we use the body that
we were placed in.
But it's essentially all energyand connection, right.

Speaker 2 (22:24):
Right and I think one of the things we don't think we
forget, but we just don't payattention to part of this
presence thing again, is thatour energy and this connection
is all interactive with everyoneelse's.
So when we talk about thisenergetic playing field, this

(22:45):
level playing field, we have it.
However, in our world, in ourculture and in our society,
those things shift for differentpeople, so it doesn't mean that
everybody's on an equal playingfield in our society and means
energetically we're on thatequal playing field.
And so definitely I'm glad youpicked up on it.
I lost my train of thought.

Speaker 1 (23:08):
But you're exactly right.
Like we're all given differentcircumstances, we all have the
capability, though, to tap intothis divine power within us.

Speaker 2 (23:24):
I do use the word mystery a lot just because it's
the thing that can't beexplained.
Like we tried our brains againtry to put definitions on things
.
To me, I love what science isdoing now.
When you look at quantumphysics and things like that,
it's starting to define and it'sstarting to measure things we

(23:48):
never thought could be measuredby science or looked at by
science, and it's really coolthat I'm air quoting, proving
some things that faith pathshave thought all along.
However, I also have thislittle like tug in my heart that
I love the mystery.
Like I love that there'ssomething that's bigger than us

(24:10):
and beyond our comprehension.
It's not beyond us, but it'sbeyond what our brains can
comprehend.
It's this thing where ourconnection has to be something
different than thinking, Whetherthat's within our hearts,
whatever that's you want to callit a soul, your spirit Like
there's something so incredible.

(24:32):
Our human brains, which aremagnificent, still can't grasp
it.
To me, that mystery is great.

Speaker 1 (24:40):
And I don't think that we're ever supposed to
grasp, do you?

Speaker 2 (24:44):
That's what I think.
Yeah, I think that as a human,we have this experience for a
reason and that when we comeinto it, many of us want to
learn and know and understand asmuch as we can, but there's a
point where it's bigger than usbecause of the way our thinking

(25:10):
is and our.
You know, a lot of people talkabout ego and it's such a big,
broad concept to get into, butour ego is the thing that
identifies us as separate fromsomeone else and it gets labeled
as evil in some ways.
But it's necessary and it'sactually really cool if you

(25:31):
don't let it like wrap you upand control you in it.
You know, it's why you and Ican have this conversation right
now.
It's why we can share thesethoughts and line them up or
misalign them, or you know inany way about it.
It's the thing that we get toexperience.
It's the thing that lets usexperience our humanity really.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (25:52):
It's the thing that propels us forward.
If we didn't have the ego, wewould be like blobs of not doing
anything right.
Like only receiving all thetime.

Speaker 2 (26:03):
We don't want that.

Speaker 1 (26:04):
We want to be able to have the balance between the
taking action and the receiving,and being in that harmony of
the give and take, yeah, yeah.
That's that balance.
So the more that we can releaseour grasp on this certainty of
belief and surrender tosomething beyond the limits of
our minds, the deeper we canconnect with this mystery right,

(26:29):
this spiritual being yeah,that's how I think of it,
because I think I get myselfinto thinking black and white,
especially when I'm stressed.

Speaker 2 (26:42):
I'll go straight to oh my God, this is exactly how
this is going to go, and it'sgoing to be so much trouble or
so much hassle or whatever mymind does with that.
If I can stop and take a breathand think okay, now is that
really true?
Or am I just reaching to thissolid thought in order to grasp

(27:05):
something that I feel like I canhold on to?
What if I release that a littlebit, let go of that a little
bit and let myself come tocenter, as if it's on a
continuum, because we can go tothose grasping black and white
thoughts on either the black orwhite end, but if we can release

(27:26):
those and let go of them alittle bit and come to the
center, things don't feel so tome anyway.
Cut off and divided and harsh.
They feel like, oh, there'smore available in the universe,
there's more potential for theway this circumstance or
situation could go than I canimagine, because what I'm

(27:48):
imagining is just one eitherhorrible, awful thing or one
perfect thing that maybe isn'teven attainable.
I think, if we can release someof that.
Actually, this could get into aconversation that would go way
too far, but I think that'swhat's happening in our culture

(28:08):
and our society today is there'ssome kind of security in
holding on to a sure, certainthought, even if that means
we're disconnecting from part ofourselves or other people or an
entirely other part of humanity.

Speaker 1 (28:33):
I think if we can release some of that a little
bit, Just add a drop ofcompassion, a drop of like an
intuition at it through adifferent lens.

Speaker 2 (28:45):
Yeah, yeah, looking at it through a different lens,
I think, yeah, the black andwhite thinking is easy to hold
on to, but really doesn't serveus.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (28:58):
So how do you help someone see that?
How do you?
You know, like what is the?
That's the hard thing, becauseyou're right, I think like
that's in our society right nowis a very strong thing that's
happening.

Speaker 2 (29:18):
I think, well, I don't have the answer to that.

Speaker 1 (29:21):
Let me say that first , right, right, I don't know if
any of us do, but right, right.

Speaker 2 (29:25):
Because I don't even.
You know it's a hard thing forme within myself.
You know I can see myself whenI get pulled one way or another.
I think the key is probablycuriosity.
Curiosity and certainty have tobe on opposite ends of the
spectrum, like you can't becertain and be curious, and if

(29:49):
you're curious you're allowingfor something else to be valid
or true or possible.
And so I have a friend who saysto me sometimes well, I just
had a curiosity, what would youthink of this?
Especially when I'm kind ofwound around something.
She'll ask me that question andit's like it's that pause moment

(30:11):
that I need.
That's like, oh, okay, I'mdoing the black and white thing
here right now.
It doesn't always work, youknow, it depends on how
entrenched I am in that thought,but I think curiosity is the
thing that brings us to thatcenter place where we go.
Okay, if I'm fully certain ofsomething, I'm not open, I'm not

(30:36):
open to a flow for certain, forcertain, for sure.
I'm not open to a flow.
I've decided something and I'mrigidly holding it there.
And if I'm doing that, likeI've disconnected something,
I've disconnected some potentialor alternatives and probably
disconnected other people withthat.

Speaker 1 (30:59):
Right, and it's when we are holding like that and
when we are stuck in that blackand white, we are acting out of
fear instead of trust andinstead of love and curiosity.
I lump those two together.
I have a worksheet that I do,that I created to use with some
clients and like one of thequestions is am I acting out of

(31:19):
fear, doubt and control, or am Iacting out of trust, love and
curiosity?
And like that's the question toask yourself when you start to
get wound up about something,really, because it's one that
will honestly set you back andsay, okay, oh, I am acting out

(31:40):
of fear, mistrust and doubtinstead of love, compassion,
trust, curiosity and, seeing itwith those eyes, curiosity is
definitely key to growth.
I mean, yeah, it has to be, butwhen we get stuck in that place

(32:02):
of like, oh, I can't do that,I've never done that before we
are not giving yourself a chanceto even consider anything else.
So just adding that little bitof curiosity can change your
world completely, and it's thesame thing with looking at how
we interpret our humanity anddivinity.

(32:25):
So, just because we're havingthis conversation, somebody out
there might be thinking no way,no, how it is.

Speaker 2 (32:31):
God is up here, I am down here.

Speaker 1 (32:34):
This is how it is yeah, and maybe if you could
invite just a little bit ofcuriosity and see that this
conversation could be a littlebit different, that you could
interpret our conversation alittle bit differently, that
perhaps we are one in the same,who knows where the world will

(32:56):
go right.

Speaker 2 (32:58):
Yeah, that's the fascinating part to me, that I
don't think for a long, longtime I wouldn't say never but I
don't think humanitycollectively, all of us together
, have really allowed ourselvesto be that curious.
I feel like for centuries andI'm talking centuries before

(33:22):
Christianity then was created, Ithink for centuries there has
been this movement towards asolid, certain thing which
sounds like a really securething.
However, it kind of haseliminated this whole potential

(33:42):
of what we could be.
That might be going a littlebit.
What do you mean by that?
I think that if we stand in asolid, certain faith, it's kind
of like the same thing you weresaying earlier that you're a
Christian and that is the faiththat you walk in.
But you also understand thatthere are also all these other

(34:06):
ways of seeing our spirituality,of seeing what God is, of
seeing what the universe is.
To me, whenever we have aconversation, I see you as I
kind of see that light shiningin you because you've opened up
to those things.
That's a perception, becauseyou have your faith and you're

(34:29):
strong in it, and there's noquestion about that.
However, you also are open andcurious about these other ways
of learning, ways of knowing.
I spoke at a funeral last weekand one of the things I said was
that this woman had thisbeautiful expansive mind.

(34:49):
Like she has this incredibleheart as well.
But she has this beautifulexpansive mind in that she
stands in her faith and shewants to know God in a million
different ways.
Like she had that curiositywhere she would learn any kind
of teaching.
Because how can that doanything but grow you forward in
your divinity, in yourconnection?

(35:10):
That's within you?

Speaker 1 (35:14):
Yeah, yeah, exactly, and kind of like what I said
also earlier, is that thesepositive things and when things
are used to deepen your whetherit's your knowledge or your
connection with God or spirit oruniverse, or however you define
it and it's being used for goodand being used to propel you

(35:38):
forward in this world for thepurpose of love and connection
and doing unto others as youwould want done to you, how can
it not be divinely led ordivinely driven yeah Right or

(35:59):
fully connected?
So many of the world's religionshave this same message, right,
it's the harmony message, it'slove, and it is treating others
how you want to be treated.
And so when we do that, it'sjust demonstrating that, yeah,

(36:20):
this is really, this is, this ismind-bending.
But when we do that, it'sdemonstrating that you're also
treating yourself that way.
When you treat someone elsewith that love and compassion,
that kindness, in a sense,you're treating yourself that
way too, because it's all energyand we are all that same energy
that was placed here on thisearth.
So we are a mirror foreverybody else, and how we treat

(36:46):
someone else, in a sense, weare also treating ourselves that
same way.

Speaker 2 (36:52):
Yeah, I think about that, when I think about
forgiveness.
And I haven't been a person whocould hold grudges.
And you know, when you get tothat place where you figure out
if I'm not having a conversationwith that person that I'm angry
with or have been hurt by orwhatever, and I'm sitting here

(37:12):
sleeping, I'm the one who's inpain, like that lack of
forgiveness on my part.
And we hear this all the timeforgiveness is for you, not for
the other person.
But it's really true, like thatconnection, that way that I
have cut off and held on thatperson and held on to this anger
is me cutting off the flow,it's me hurting me, you know.

(37:40):
And so I think the more we do,the more practices we do that
allow us to let that flowthrough us.
I think that's the thing thatgives us more freedom.

Speaker 1 (37:56):
I agree, I agree, and it heals the energy that is
harmed, even if you don't knowthat you hurt someone.
So I did this practice thismorning with the kids in yoga
that like they had to think ofsomeone who they maybe needed to
forgive or that they thoughtneeded to forgive them.

(38:19):
But we first kind of stayed onthat someone that they thought
they needed to forgive and justI just asked them to take the
first person that comes to mindand if they questioned why they
needed to forgive that person,if they kind of thought, yeah,
but why did that person come tomind?
I don't have any reason toforgive them.
I kind of encourage them thatlike there's probably something
there that you do need toforgive them for but you've

(38:41):
forgotten about.
Allow yourself the space tojust forgive and to heal that
energy, because we don't evenknow sometimes that we need to
forgive someone, because littlethings happen and we just hold
them in different ways and weforget about them.
But really our unconscious andthat energy inside of us knows
that there's a rupture in theenergy and so by forgiving, by

(39:06):
allowing and extending thathealing of that energy field, I
think it can be pretty powerful,you know what, and I just
thought of this too.

Speaker 2 (39:14):
This might be an out there thing to think about that.
But I also wonder if maybe thatperson they thought of you need
to be forgiven from that person.
Maybe you harmed someone anddidn't know that you did, and so
it's actually there, theforgiveness of something you did

(39:37):
that you're not remembering.
And so why wouldn't it workboth ways?
Exactly?
No, even if you're not Exactly.

Speaker 1 (39:47):
Exactly.
Ok, we're going to start towrap this up.
So, ok, we have a couple lastquestions that I generally ask
guests, and first question beingtell us how all of this that we
have talked about cultivates agreater health, harmony and
happiness in your life.

Speaker 2 (40:05):
OK.
So when I think of, when Ithink of all we talked about
today and health, harmony andhappiness, to me it all revolves
around the harmony piece.
I think that being in tune,being in harmony, being letting
those energies flow, I thinkthat's the thing that keeps us

(40:27):
physically healthy, keeps usmentally healthy, keeps us
emotionally healthy andspiritually connected and
healthy.
And I don't know of a way to behappy unless I'm in harmony, If
I'm out of sync, happiness isnot going to be there.
It doesn't matter whatcircumstances are happening in
my life.
So to me it all revolves aroundthat harmony piece.

(40:49):
Yeah, I love it.

Speaker 1 (40:51):
That's beautiful, that's beautiful.
Thank you for sharing that.
And then, what's one thingyou're doing right now to invite
more intention into your life?

Speaker 2 (40:59):
So there are two.
One of them has been a practiceI've used for years, and it's
just a pause and a breath.
So, whatever is going right now, I feel like I'm going a
million different directions atonce, I'm multitasking all over
the place and sometimes my headfeels like it's spinning.
So when I'm getting wrapped upin that, I just have to stop and

(41:23):
take a breath and go.
What one thing can I do next?
And it's just that pause thatsets my intention to not float
all over the place and toactually do one thing at a time.
The other thing I've been doinghas just been in the last
handful of days.
I experienced a loss recentlyand I keep wanting to hear and

(41:49):
listen for that person in mylife, and so I've been looking
at the sky.
I'm not saying I'm looking atheaven, I'm not saying I'm
looking anywhere, but at the skyand seeing the clouds and
trying to just set my intentionto know that I am connected to
everything and that means I amstill.

(42:11):
She is still connected to me,she is still with me, and I
think it has helped me not onlywith the grief that I'm going
through.
It has helped me remember thatconnection that's always there
because we give in times thatare hard and you forget it.
So that has helped me recently.

(42:31):
Just remember and beintentional about staying in
that connection.

Speaker 1 (42:37):
Yeah, and it's just another way of inviting that
pause in and yeah, being open tothe receiving being open to
listening for connection.

Speaker 2 (42:53):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (42:55):
That's beautiful.
Okay, Melissa, you've got abook coming out and tell us a
little bit about that.

Speaker 2 (43:04):
So the title of the book is when Our Humanity Meets
Our Divinity, which is why wetalked about those concepts
today, and it really came fromthe idea of a paradox.
So a paradox is two things thatare seemingly fit together, and
I think a lot of times that'show we look at humanity and
divinity, our humanists and ourholiness.

(43:25):
To me, they are two things thatshould perfectly together, but
you have to be willing to notlook at the black and white, you
have to be willing to speak,those things being true at the
same time that we are whollyhuman and we're wholly divine,
and so this book is kind ofabout being able to walk a path
with that kind of awareness andthat kind of presence.

Speaker 1 (43:50):
I love it.
I love it.
I'm interviewing someone latertoday about manifestation and
yeah, like I'm just curiousabout it and that's the thing
you know.
And I feel like I do it.
But I'm curious about how allthat intertwines with our being

(44:14):
divine beings as well, rightLike we are human and divine,
and that's kind of a very coolconnection.
So this book, your book we kindof started talking about in the
previous episode that we did.

Speaker 2 (44:31):
It's just another idea at that time.

Speaker 1 (44:33):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So here it is going to be abook that you are birthing and
that's beautiful.
So when does the book come out?
The book will come out inspring of 2024.
So right now, just around thecorner, it's going to come, so
fast.

Speaker 2 (44:50):
I know I know there's so many things to do between
now and then, but I will startmy third round of edits in just
a couple of weeks, so that willbe the one that really firms it
up and makes it hopefully aseasy to read as possible.
But I have my presale going onright now and so I think you
have the link.

(45:10):
If people want to go, take alook at some packages that I
have, I'm inviting you into kindof the author community where
you get some previews and maybehaving some people.
I'm hoping to have people helpme like design the cover and do
stuff like that.
Awesome.
And then just get littletidbits and drawings and fun,

(45:32):
more fun things going on in themonths Awesome.

Speaker 1 (45:35):
So I will drop the link to the book to the presale
in the show notes, and you alsohave a code that I will put in
the show notes where you can geta discount on any of the
packages that you have.
Now Melissa outlined some ofthe purchase packages or the
purchase options the other dayon Instagram and she's got some
really cool stuff going on withthem, like a buy one, donate one

(45:57):
.
So there's some pretty cooloptions, so I want to encourage
you to check that out.
Where can people find you onsocial media?

Speaker 2 (46:05):
So the places I most active are Instagram and my
handle.
There is just.
It's Kaliqi Harris, I thinkyou'll have that.
It's K-A-L-I-K-I-H-A-R-R-I-S.
You'll see a lot on that.
And then the other places on myauthor page on Facebook and
it's Melissa Rose Harris, author, and you'll have the link to
that as well.
That's where I'm posting anyvideos, any posts, any updates

(46:29):
on what's going on.
Those two pages are the easiestplaces to find me and see keep
the most up to date information.

Speaker 1 (46:37):
Awesome.
Is there anything else you wantto share with listeners before
we sign off?

Speaker 2 (46:41):
No, I just, I hope you'll stay curious.
I hope this conversation hasmade you want to step away from
the black and white a little bitand really open your mind.
I love it.
Thank you, Kaliqi.

Speaker 1 (46:53):
Thank you so much, yeah, thanks for being here,
melissa.

Speaker 2 (46:57):
This has been so fun.

Speaker 1 (47:02):
Be sure that you check out the description of
this podcast episode and take alook at the show notes to get
all of Melissa's contactinformation and to start
following her on social media.
She is a brilliant writer andhas so much love and passion in
all that she does and inbringing forth this idea of our

(47:22):
divinity and humanity and how wecan be so much more intentional
in life.
I do hope that you will checkher out and support her.
We hopefully have a coupleother conversations coming with
her, because she and I have somegreat ideas for the podcast and
things to talk about.
Look forward to that.

(47:43):
In the meantime, I'm KathyStricker and you've been
listening to Health, harmony andHappiness.
With Kathy Cheers tocultivating your own version of
health, harmony and happiness inyour life.