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September 17, 2023 27 mins

The Healthy Matters Podcast

S02_E20 - Mental Health Stressors...and Strategies!

Be it social media, the change of the seasons, the holidays, or just the everyday stresses of life; one thing is for certain - they all can take a toll on our mental health.  The good news is, these days we're talking about it more than ever.  And the more we talk about it, the more normal the conversation becomes and the more we can do to help ourselves and others. 

On Episode 20 we'll have a conversation with Hennepin Healthcare Psychiatrist Dr. Katie Thorsness, to give us a more detailed picture of the stressors that hinder, and strategies that can improve mental health.  This is a very important conversation that pertains to [literally] everyone.  Learn about tips for keeping our brains healthy and how to notice issues and support, not only yourself but others who may be going through a tough time.  It's an essential topic that needs all the attention we can give it these days.  Join us and let's show these brains some love!

Check out the NAMI website here!

If you or a loved one is having a mental health crisis, please dial 988, to get connected confidentially with a mental health professional.

Got a question for the doc?  Or an idea for a show?  Contact us!

Email - healthymatters@hcmed.org

Call - 612-873-TALK (8255)

Find out more at www.healthymatters.org

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Transcript

Episode Transcript

Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):


Speaker 2 (00:04):
Welcome to the Healthy Matters podcast with
Dr. David Hilden , primary carephysician and acute care
hospitalist at HennepinHealthcare in downtown
Minneapolis, where we cover thelatest in health, healthcare
and what matters to you. Andnow here's our host, Dr. David
Hilden .

Speaker 3 (00:21):
Hey, everybody, it's Dr. David Hilden, your host of
the Healthy Matters podcast.
Welcome to episode 20. As wehead towards winter and the
days get shorter, it can take atoll on people's mood and more
importantly, their mentalhealth and their wellbeing. On
today's episode, I am joined byHennepin Healthcare
psychiatrist, Dr. Katie Thorne, an expert on mental health,

(00:43):
and we are gonna discussstrategies for improving and
sustaining your own mentalhealth. Katie , welcome to the
podcast and thanks for joiningus.

Speaker 4 (00:50):
Thanks, David. It's good to be here. So let's just

Speaker 3 (00:52):
Start right out. How do you define good mental
health?

Speaker 4 (00:56):
It's a great question, and it's complex, I'm
sure, as you might haveguessed, it

Speaker 3 (01:00):
Can be , it's pretty open-ended ,

Speaker 4 (01:01):
It's pretty open-ended. So we also have to
think about how this can beinfluenced by social and
cultural factors, but thinkingof it as a dynamic state that
changes over time. I like theWorld Health Organization sort
of loosely definition of that,that it is more than just the
absence of disease. It's astate of mental wellbeing that
enables people to cope withstressors, be in a state of

(01:23):
able to learn, contribute tocommunities, maintain
nourishing relationships, andfeel that they have a life
worth living. So

Speaker 3 (01:30):
What are some of the most common causes, especially
in this state that you'reseeing of, of, of threats to
people's good mental health.
Mm-hmm. ,

Speaker 4 (01:38):
Also multifaceted.
Lots of different things thatcan contribute to that. I think
one of the biggest one that wesee is a lack of access to
basic needs, including housing,affordable housing, affordable
childcare , healthcare , foodsecurity. Also decreased
connection, you know,loneliness, we know , um, can
increase , uh, deterioratingmental health , um, as well as

(02:03):
toxic stress, trauma, substanceuse, sleep disruption, hormonal
changes, the list could go on.

Speaker 3 (02:09):
It's what that you're basically describing the
life experience of most of ourlisteners right now, they're
experiencing some of that.

Speaker 4 (02:17):
We all are. Yes.

Speaker 3 (02:19):
It , it , it brings to mind. Somebody told me the
other day, wow, you lookedreally happy at such and such
and such event. And I said,really? I felt really, really
stressed. And so it , it , itstrikes me as that your mental
health is this balance maybe ,um, between the stressors, the
things that are going on inyour life , um, and how you
cope with that. I, I think it'smore than depression, isn't it?

Speaker 4 (02:40):
It is, yeah. And I think what you're talking about
too is we all have stressors inour life, right? And there's a
normal amount and a healthyamount of stress. And sometimes
when it becomes too much fortoo long without healthy
connections and relationshipsto buffer that it can be toxic
and tipping over into thatdepression. And it's, it's not
always just depression. A lotof times what we see is, again,

(03:03):
all of the background piecesabout who , um, makes , um, up
individuals, their family, thesocial connection, but also
sometimes it's anxiety ,sometimes it's trauma,
sometimes it can be substanceuse, medical conditions that
can play into this grief loss.
It's rarely, rarely justdepression.

Speaker 3 (03:22):
So how does one know if the feelings you're having
are depression or I'm justfeeling blue, or this is just
normal anxiety or just this isnormal stressors. When does it
become something that some,that someone should seek help
for or be more, more concernedabout? Mm-hmm.

Speaker 4 (03:39):
such a good question. One thing I tell
people is never worry alone.
And there's a lot of people whowould love to help think about
that. So if anyone is thinkingabout, is this depression, is
it anxiety, is it normal? Justreach out and ask, ask a
therapist. Ask a trusted familymember or a friend, a
psychiatrist. And one way thatI help people think about it is

(04:00):
in either , um, bad weatherdays or bad climate. And so we
all have bad weather days,right? So here and there a day
that just isn't going our waythat we don't feel as well. But
when it really feels like theclimate is not, you know, not
going the way that we want, andthe climate is unhealthy,
sometimes that can be more ofthe depression versus kind of
the blues that we all feel.

Speaker 3 (04:21):
I love that metaphor. I have not heard that
before. The weather or versusclimate thing. A a few weeks
ago or a few months ago, we didan episode with another
psychiatrist here at Hennepin,Dr. Eduardo Colon , where we
talked about the lonelinessepidemic. And as the Surgeon
General had come out with , uh,some thoughts on that, you've
mentioned connectedness andisolation a couple times

(04:41):
already in this episode. Couldyou say more about that? How
does being isolated affect aperson and and what ought to do
about it if you're just kind ofin this rutt and, and don't
have a lot of connections?
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (04:54):
So we are all hardwired as human beings to
connect. Since we are bornbabies, we are all driven to
connect with our caregivers,with people in our lives. That
does not change as we becomeadults, as we become older
adults. And that has lookeddifferent since the pandemic,
since a lot of different thingsand how to reach out and how to

(05:14):
actually connect. And I , Iwould encourage listeners to
think about connection on evensmall levels. It doesn't have
to be you go out to thatneighborhood block party. If it
is, great, get out there and doit. That's

Speaker 3 (05:25):
So funny. You mentioned that we had a
neighborhood block party lastFriday, and my wife said, I'm
not going to that block party

Speaker 4 (05:30):
. Right?
Yeah. It's a spectrum, right?
I've missed a few block partiesmyself. Um, but thinking about,
maybe it's a text, right? Youstart small, it's a text to
someone you trust. It's , um,connecting around a song, you
know, maybe it's sometimestalking or sharing feelings can
feel too overwhelming forpeople to make that connection.
Maybe you are just sittingtogether with someone that you

(05:51):
trust doing something youenjoy, right? Or getting out.
Um, but you can really startsmall with connection.

Speaker 3 (05:57):
Do you think this has gotten worse since the
pandemic? You know, we talkabout before pandemic in the
before times and the aftertimes we're in the after times.
Now it, it strikes me that isthat this, this sense of
disconnectedness is higher. NowI blame virtual meetings and
all that because that's thebane of my existence. I just
absolutely hate them. I've eventold people in my department,

(06:18):
no more, I'm not doing 'emgood. I'm not doing zoom
meetings. No offense to thegood people at Zoom. I'm not
doing that. If we canabsolutely help it. But do you
think that, are we in a newkind of era of isolation? No ,
I think we

Speaker 4 (06:31):
Are. And I think we're in a new normal, as
people have been talking about.
And we do know that depressionhas risen dramatically since
covid in adults, right? We knowthat from statistics

Speaker 3 (06:42):
Diagnosed depression.

Speaker 4 (06:43):
Diagnosed depression, yeah. We're also
screening for it more, which Ithink is a good thing. And
Covid has helped with that, isto say, Hey, we've been missing
this, right? Or we are missingthis. And we also know that in
certain populations we miss itmore. And that includes , um,
uh, black Americans, indigenousAmericans, women are twice as

(07:03):
likely to experience depression, uh, than men as well. And so
we are doing a better job ofpicking it up

Speaker 3 (07:11):
Too. So I guess that's a, that's a mixed
blessing. It's good that we'repicking it up more, but it ,
it's a little dishearteningthat it's on the rise. Do we
know why certain groupsexperience mood problems, mood
disorders, like you just said,women, people of color, native
people. Do we know why that is?

Speaker 4 (07:29):
I think we have a lot more to learn, of course in
that. And I would guess , uh,starting for women , uh, so I'm
a perinatal psychiatrist, so Ido a lot of perinatal work with
women. And so it's verycomplex. I think hormones can
play a, a part in that,especially postpartum and
parent during pregnancy. Um,also , um, I think we have a

(07:50):
lot more to learn aboutinflammation and how um,
different diagnoses areconnected to our mental health
and women are more common toget some of these , uh, other
diagnoses, autoimmune stuff.
Um, and then I think in ourculture we tend to place , um,
more of the mental load andfamily work. So during the
pandemic we know that womenwere in charge of , uh, more of

(08:14):
the mental load of the house.
So distance learning, some ofthose things. And um, and that
contributes to more stress,more depression, anxiety too.

Speaker 3 (08:23):
That makes sense. Do you, do most of your practice,
just as an aside with um, uh,new moms and new families? Is
that where most of your, yourpsychiatry work is?

Speaker 4 (08:31):
Yeah, that is where most of my work is. I also see
residents for their own mentalhealth here at Hennepin
Healthcare as well.

Speaker 3 (08:37):
So residents being doctors in training? Correct.
Yeah . Yeah, I'm aware of that.
And thank you for that by theway. Yeah . I'd like to shift
if we could a little bit, ifyou could address how could
somebody identify when there'ssort of an imbalance in their
own mental health?

Speaker 4 (08:52):
Yeah. I tell patients and families I work
with bottom line, trust yourgut. If you're feeling like
something isn't right, youmight not have the words for it
or what to describe, reach outand ask. That's what we're here
for. As psychiatrists, astherapists, as as healthcare
providers, as we will help.
'cause it's really complex andwe might not always know, but
trust your gut. And sometimeswe ourselves can be the last to

(09:15):
notice that we're depressed. Sonot only trust your gut, but
trust what loved ones andtrusted people in your life
might be pointing out to you.
Other things that we can alllook for is a sense of maybe
not enjoying things we onceenjoyed. That can be a shift.
Are there things coming up inrelationships that maybe
there's more relational strainsin your life? Are your sleep

(09:37):
and appetite affected? That'sanother thing between kind of
feeling blue and when it'scrossing over to depression, we
see our functioning beingimpacted, including sleep
appetite. And one big thingthat we see quite a bit is
irritability. Um, to , canactually show up as anxiety and
depression as well.

Speaker 3 (09:54):
You bring up , um, uh, um, mental health
professionals. It , it strikesme that , uh, there might be, I
dunno if it's generational, butyou see resident physicians,
physicians who are generally intheir twenties and thirties,
you, you help care for theirmental health. I don't
remember, I'm not in mytwenties or thirties or
forties, , . Idon't , I don't ever recall

(10:14):
once anyone asking the doctorsof my generation how you're
doing, or you certainlywouldn't have brought it up.
You wouldn't have said, I'mgonna go see a psychiatrist for
heaven's sakes like you and now, um, the , the younger doctors
or seem more willing to dothat. So my question is, do you
see any generationaldifferences in how people , um,
respond to their mental health, um, in , in particularly in

(10:36):
how they seek assistance?

Speaker 4 (10:38):
I do. I think that culture is shifting and I think
the stigma is being reduced andnot to bring , consistently
bring it back to the pandemic,but I think that actually has
been a big shift of thepandemic where we realized, oh,
it's not just someone else whosuffers from depression. Right?
It's like that other person hasanxiety, not me. And then when
we saw it become so pervasivewith the isolation and the

(11:00):
increased stressors in ourworld, it was all of us. And so
that actually was a collectiveunification for people to
connect on is that we're allsuffering and struggling and
it's okay.

Speaker 3 (11:12):
And it's okay. I think that's a really good
message. So you've mentionedsome, some changes in people's
lives or, or their, theirday-to-day experiences of
irritability and sleep problemsand all that. If someone feels
like they have some of those,what should they do next?

Speaker 4 (11:28):
Yeah, I think again, that message, don't worry alone
and find someone to connectwith and confide in. That
doesn't mean you have to tellthem every single thing you
might be thinking or feeling,but again, that message of
something just doesn't feelright and I need more support
or I'd like more support. Andthat could be someone in your
life that could be a mentalhealth professional, but find

(11:49):
someone and not worry alone.

Speaker 3 (11:51):
I really, really like that advice. Um, does it
have to be , uh, aprofessional?

Speaker 4 (11:56):
No, no. It can be anyone that you trust , um, and
that maybe understands you andthat you feel that you can
safely talk about things with.
And it also doesn't have to bea mental health professional.
Um, you can go to a primarycare doctor, internal medicine,
you know, anyone on yourhealthcare team, a physical
therapist , um, that you trust.

(12:17):
It can get you connected to therights care and support.

Speaker 3 (12:20):
So for the professional network of
support, I think our mentalhealth system, this is a little
opinion or editorializing,hasn't been well supported or
or developed in our country andit's fragmented as heck. And
here you are a psychiatrist whoworks in that system. What
advice would you give to peoplewho do need to access the

(12:41):
mental health system? How dothey do that? I think a lot of
people don't even know where tobegin. You're

Speaker 4 (12:46):
Right. And that leads to actually a lot of
people not getting treatment.
Mm-hmm . . And weknow that depression and
anxiety are so common, but alot of people actually never
receive the treatment theydeserve. And this is a big part
of it and this access. And so ,um, anyone, again, any
healthcare professional, youhave an appointment, ask them
about it, get connected. Uh ,that's one way in. Also, nami,

(13:07):
the National Alliance forMental Illness is a wonderful
organization that helps getpeople and families connected
to resources. And so whenyou're just not sure where to
start, right? You Googletherapist and a million people
come up and some people acceptinsurance. This person has
openings , this person doesn't.
It's too overwhelming. Mm-hmm.
. And so startingwith somewhere like NAMI can be

(13:28):
another really nice place tostart.

Speaker 3 (13:29):
So NAMI is a great resource. And for listeners, we
will put a link to the NAMIwebsite on the show notes.
Katie , what happens if someoneis really in a bad way? I mean
really acutely having a mentalhealth crisis, what should they
do then? Yeah,

Speaker 4 (13:45):
It can be really a scary situation for the
individual and the family. Andwe have a suicide prevention
lifeline that they or familymembers could dial 9, 8 8.

Speaker 3 (13:55):
And that's a nationwide number nationwide.
Good tip there. We're talkingto Dr. Katie Thorne about your
mental health. When we comeback, we're gonna talk about
some things you can do in yourdaily life and also how you can
help others who are in yourlife. Stay with us. We'll be
right back.

Speaker 2 (14:13):
You are listening to the Healthy Matters podcast
with Dr. David Hilden . Got aquestion or comment for the
doc, email us at Healthymatters@hcme.org or give us a
call at six one two eight seventhree talk. That's 6 1 2 8 7 3
8 2 5 5 . And now let's getback to more healthy

(14:33):
conversation.

Speaker 3 (14:36):
And we're back.
Katie. We've been talking a lotabout depression in the setting
of stressors in people's lives.
A lot of people experiencingsomething a little bit
different. They experienceanxiety or even panic attacks.
What tips might you have forthose folks?

Speaker 4 (14:50):
Yeah, I'm glad you asked. Anxiety is so common and
often really linked right todepression. It's pretty rare
that someone only hasdepression, right? Anxiety and
depression go hand in hand .
And anxiety is a state that istrying to protect ourselves,
right? Our body and our brainare trying to say danger.
There's something that we needto pay attention to. But when

(15:12):
it's anxiety, that alarm bellis going off when it shouldn't
be. And that's exhausting andnot sustainable for our bodies
and our mind. And so, one thingto know about anxiety is very
common, treatable. And thereare some skills that can be
really helpful and effective.
Like

Speaker 3 (15:27):
Day-to-day skills.

Speaker 4 (15:28):
Day-to-day skills.
There's something that Ilearned in residency and I
carry with me every day .
They're called tip skills.

Speaker 3 (15:34):
Okay, tell us about 'em . .

Speaker 4 (15:36):
Yeah. So TIP stands for , um, uh, T is for
temperature. I is for intenseexercise, P is for paced
breathing. And the last P isprogressive muscle relaxation,
which I could talk about. Butall of these tip skills are
evidence-based and they workthrough our vagal nerve, which
is the biggest nerve in ourbody that helps regulate our

(15:57):
stress response and our anxietyand help give us some room to
breathe and, and think. Couldwe

Speaker 3 (16:02):
Dig into that a little bit more? Yeah. Yeah .
Tell us about 'em. What'stemperature? That's the tea .

Speaker 4 (16:06):
Yeah. So temperature, we know that cold
temperature can help withanxiety. And so when at the
moment we start to feelanxious, overwhelmed, grab an
ice pack . If you can put 'em,you know, shut your eyes, put
the ice pack over your eyes,under your eyes. And that will
help shock kind of our body tosay, Hey, wait, we're okay.
We're safe.

Speaker 3 (16:25):
Okay. First of all, that's fascinating. From a ,
from a my doctor point of view,I get that. 'cause you
mentioned the vagus nerve,which is when it's sort of like
the break in the heart, itslows things down. Mm-hmm .
. So if you putice on it, it , it slows that
down. But that strikes me ascounterintuitive that I would
think heat and warmth anddanish huga and all that are ,
are the things that would bebetter for anxiety. You say put

(16:45):
in a cold pack on your face.
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (16:46):
Sometimes our nervous system needs a reset.
Right? And the tricky thingabout anxiety is it spiral,
spiral, spiral spirals andkeeps going. Right? And
sometimes our body and ournervous system just need, Hey
wait, we need a reset. And inMinnesota, walk outside. It
doesn't even have to be an icepack . It's cold. It's coming
up here in a couple months.
Just walk outside and, and beexposed to that cold

Speaker 3 (17:06):
Air . It's all good Minnesota. See, there's
something beneficial to have itbeing 10 below zero outside.
Okay, that's the tea . What'sthe I in tips? The

Speaker 4 (17:14):
I is intense exercise. Not always possible,
but we also know that that canalso do that reset right? When
we're feeling so anxious. Andso sometimes what I'll tell
people is do 10 jumping jacks.
You know, if you can or run upthe stairs. Especially the
resident doctors I work withhere. I say if anyone sees a
doctor running up the stairs,they're not gonna take twice it
.

Speaker 3 (17:32):
'cause you told them to. They'll run up the
stairwells. . Yes .

Speaker 4 (17:36):
Um, so some form of just, it doesn't have to be
going for a mile run oranything. Just move your body,
get outta your chair. Dosomething.

Speaker 3 (17:43):
Makes perfect sense.
P

Speaker 4 (17:45):
P first P paced breathing. There's a lot of
ways to breathe and a lot oftalk about how to breathe best
for anxiety mood. What I wantpeople to know is I want, I
want people to exhale for alittle longer than they're
inhaling. Because when weexhale things calm, our heart
rate can decrease a little bit.
So if we're spending more timein the breathing out the

(18:07):
exhalation, that can also be areset.

Speaker 3 (18:09):
I've been doing it for the last 30 seconds,

Speaker 4 (18:11):
. I did it before we started today .

Speaker 3 (18:12):
Okay. Perfect.
What's the last piece?

Speaker 4 (18:14):
The last piece is something called progressive
muscle relaxation. We know thatif we tense up our muscles
first and then relax them ,they actually relax more than
if I were to say, David, justrelax over there. Right? Relax.
Yeah. But if we can tighten ourwhole body up, and then if we
can think kind of from top downeven, I like to think of this
golden light kind of comingfrom the top of my body down

(18:36):
and just relaxing each musclegroup one, one little bit of a
time. So starting even withyour, with your head, your
ears, which sounds silly, butreally kind of drawing
attention to our body. Um, andworking all the way down to our
feet. That can be a really goodone for sleep. 'cause a lot of
times anxiety comes, is awakeat night. And if we're lying in
bed and we're feeling that, trythis.

Speaker 3 (18:57):
T I P P. Those are awesome. Yeah . Tips. By the
way , let's talk now about thepeople in our lives. So if,
how, how can you help identifymental health concerns in the
people in our lives? And whatmight we do about that? Not
about ourselves now abouthelping others?

Speaker 4 (19:17):
I think the, one of the biggest messages I can say
is ask, A lot of times peopleare afraid to ask. Right? What
if I ask if they're depressedand they're not? Or what if I'm
missing it? Don't be afraid toask people feel connected when
we know that other people areworried or caring about us. And
so something to phrase you ,you could say, I care for you

(19:38):
and I'm worried what's goingon. They might say, I'm fine.
And but they will alwaysremember that you noticed and
that you were on their minds.
It's

Speaker 3 (19:46):
So simple and it , we don't maybe think about that
so much. Mm-hmm. ,is that, is that for all
people? Is that for youngpeople, old people? Is it just
the people close to us, or, Imean, should, like at work, are
we supposed to go around askingpeople how you're doing? We do
say, how are ya ? Ithink that that's not what
you're talking about. Yeah.

Speaker 4 (20:02):
I , uh, as a psychiatrist I would say ask
everybody. Right? And I knowthat's not always possible, but
as part of that stigma andculture changing and, and
making sure we are not alone,right? Because I guarantee even
in this room in the hospital,there are people who are
suffering, right? And , uh, soyes, I would say ask in a way

(20:22):
that feels okay and safe ifyou're worried about someone.

Speaker 3 (20:25):
So how can you help others? Uh , particularly if
you did ask and they said,well, now that you mention it,
I'm not doing so great. Mm-hmm.
, how can youhelp?

Speaker 4 (20:34):
So you let them know that you're there. So if if
they say, I'm not doing well,they need to know they have
supports and help. And , um,whether that's you, yourself
and other supports, you say,I'm here, we're gonna figure
this out. And again, you cancall any medical professional,
you can come in for anappointment. Um, you can reach
out to nami and maybe you dothat together because it's hard

(20:56):
for someone who's feelingdepressed and anxious to even
make that call and

Speaker 3 (21:00):
Connect . Right. To even just do something about
It's hard. Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 4 (21:02):
Yeah. What

Speaker 3 (21:03):
About the tendency to try to fix things? I think I
might fall, fall , fall prey tothis. I'm reminded of, of some
old video that was on years agowhere a woman had a big nail
sticking out of her foreheadand, and her partner kept
saying, but there's a nail inthe forehead. Why don't we pull
this thing? And she keptsaying, quit trying to fix me
. Uh , um, but um , butthere's a tendency to say, why

(21:23):
don't you do this? Why don'tyou do this? Oh, I'd had that
happen to me. Why ? This iswhat I did. Is there a tendency
for us to try to fix things forothers as opposed to maybe just
being present?

Speaker 4 (21:33):
Absolutely. And I think especially in medical
training as a psychiatristmyself, I think we're, we're
taught to fix things right? Andbe the fixers in the problems.
And so I think we allexperience that. And to your
point, the best thing we can doin that moment is to let
someone know that we are thereand to validate their feelings.
They are not alone. And to bearwitness with them, right?
Sometimes we just need someoneto see us. Our pain needs to be

(21:56):
visible. And if you're not surewhat to do next or how to
connect someone, you just sendthe message and say, I'm here
with you. You might not knowwhat to say.

Speaker 3 (22:05):
So as we go into the winter, Katie and as family
gatherings come up atThanksgiving and, and into the
winter holidays, and this is atime for many of, of gatherings
and connectedness, and for manypeople it's actually not. And
it could be a harder time.
We're swamped with social mediaand we're swamped with the fast
pace of life. Given all thatcontext, what tips would you

(22:28):
leave people with?

Speaker 4 (22:30):
Holidays certainly can be joyous, and both painful
and both can be true at thesame time. And I like to lead
with hope. And I think it wasJane Goodall who said something
that hope, hope is an action,something to that point, right
? Mm-hmm. . And soany action that we can take for
ourselves can be hope. And sosometimes that's as simple as

(22:50):
self-care, having a glass ofwater , um, doing something
that you enjoy. Um, reducingthat isolation can be part of
that hope and that action. So

Speaker 3 (23:00):
It's very proactive.
It sounds like, you know, hopeisn't just like sitting on
your, with your thoughts andhope something changes you.
You're using it as more do somesimple things that yeah. For

Speaker 4 (23:09):
Yourself and identify other supports.
Sometimes it's not our , um,you know, our family of origin
or our family's there, it'sother people in our lives or
other pets or things in ourlives. And not only identifying
those supports, but leaninginto them. Sometimes that's the
hard part, at least for me ,right? I can say, oh, I have
all these people in my life whowould love to help me and then
I don't ask. So

Speaker 3 (23:28):
I like that about taking things to , um, um, that
are hopeful and hope as anaction verb actually. What
other things can people do?

Speaker 4 (23:36):
So again, back to kind of self-care and basic
needs, moving your body. Wetalk a lot about exercise and
mental health and exercise canmean a lot of different things.
I think it can, can beoverwhelming for people to say,
Ugh , I'm feeling depressed andnow you're telling me I have to
go run a mile outside,

Speaker 3 (23:50):
Right? I wanna open the Ben and Jerry's and watch
Netflix.

Speaker 4 (23:52):
Yeah, well, what I'm talking about is just moving
your body, you know, being,sitting on the ground on a yoga
mat, getting out of that chair,moving scenery in your house.
It can be small and meaningfulmoments in moving your body.
Also diet, right? And aroundthe holidays, that's, that can
be tough. But thinking ofthings like one thing a day
that can be nourishing to yourbody. Small changes in, in, in

(24:15):
that,

Speaker 3 (24:15):
Something that everybody can actually do.
Could I ask you a little bit ofthe, the converse of that
question, what things aren'thelpful?

Speaker 4 (24:23):
There can be a lot of different coping skills that
we all develop, whether growingup we learn things from that
are modeled in our family orthat we do to survive. And then
sometimes in adulthood theydon't work as well, or we pick
up new things in adulthood tocope when we're feeling so
overwhelmed. And one of thosethings that we've seen , uh,
can be substances. And so somepeople might feel a pull to

(24:44):
drink or to use othersubstances when they're feeling
depressed or anxious. And thatwe know tends to make things a
lot worse. Also, when we feeldepressed or anxious, we have
this desire, a lot todisconnect, right? To isolate.
And what I will say is if wecan just push past that, it'll
be uncomfortable. But try asmuch as you can to push past

(25:06):
that isolation. But we knowagain, this topic keeps coming
up that makes things worse.

Speaker 3 (25:11):
Before I let you go, what final tip would you leave
people with?

Speaker 4 (25:15):
I want people to know these three things that I
tell everybody and myself and Imean them. That if you are
suffering with any stress,depression, anxiety, you are
not alone. This is not yourfault. And with help, you will
feel better.

Speaker 3 (25:31):
We've been talking with Dr. Katie Thorne about
your mental health . Katie ,thank you so much for being on
the episode with me today.

Speaker 4 (25:37):
Yeah, thanks for having me, David. It's been a
pleasure. We've

Speaker 3 (25:39):
Had a lot of good tips about your mental health
listeners. I do want to remindyou that if you are having an
acute crisis or you just needto talk to a mental health
professional, please pick upthe phone and dial nine, eight
eight. That is the nationwidenumber for , uh, to connect you
with a mental healthprofessional, 9 8 8. Also, we
will put the NAMI link in ourshow notes. I would encourage

(26:00):
you to, to learn more aboutthis topic from a little
slightly different angle withanother psychiatrist, Dr.
Eduardo Colon. He was onepisode 13 of the podcast. So
go into archives and you cancheck that out. So that's all
for today. I hope you havepicked up some good tips, as
have I, and I hope you'll joinus for the next episode. And in
the meantime, be healthy and bewell.

Speaker 2 (26:22):
Thanks for listening to the Healthy Matters podcast
with Dr. David Hilden . To findout more about the Healthy
Matters podcast or browse thearchive, visit healthy
matters.org. You got a questionor a comment for the show?
Email us at Healthymatters@hcme.org or call 6 1 2
8 7 3 talk. There's also a linkin the show notes. And finally,

(26:45):
if you enjoy the show, pleaseleave us a review and share the
show with others. The HealthyMatters Podcast is made
possible by Hennepin Healthcarein Minneapolis, Minnesota, and
engineered and produced by JohnLucas At Highball Executive
Producers are Jonathan, CTO andChristine Hill . Please
remember, we can only givegeneral medical advice during
this program, and every case isunique. We urge you to consult

(27:07):
with your physician if you havea more serious or pressing
health concern. Until nexttime, be healthy and be well.
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