November 30, 2025 • 49 mins
First in a series of podcasts about Foreign Service Kids and Applying to College. We'll talk about what colleges are looking for, what kids should be looking for, finances, different types of schools, and more.
We welcome comments and questions!
#1 - What are colleges looking for in applications, and how parents can support their FS kids through the process?
A chat with Hannah Engel-Rebitzer, an independent Educational Consultant with Peak College Consulting, about the 6 main things that schools are looking for and how triumph with each one.
To reach Hannah:
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_01 (00:03):
Hi everyone.
Thank you so much for joining.
This is Susie Church Brown, andI am here with a very special
guest about a very uminteresting and important topic
for a number of you, especiallyif you have teenagers.
I am here today with HannahEngel Rabitzer.
(00:24):
Did I say that right?
Yeah.
Okay.
And she is an independenteducation consultant.
She works with a group calledPeak College Consulting, and
she'll tell you a little bitabout her background and her
portfolio.
And then we're going to diveinto a series about applying for
(00:47):
universities with ForeignService kids.
So Hannah, tell us aboutyourself.
SPEAKER_00 (00:50):
Yeah, hi.
My name's Hannah.
My background is as a secondarymath teacher.
And I've taught as a trailingspouse or EAFM.
I've taught in Kosovo and inMalawi.
And I have been slowlytransitioning in uh from the
world of secondary math teachingto the world of independent
(01:13):
education consulting.
I got my my interests in thisfield began from the lens of
like a college access lens andjust first working in DC public
schools and then with familiesliving abroad and just seeing
huge inequities in the amount ofinformation that families had
(01:35):
about colleges.
And so I started slowly takingclasses and trying to understand
a little bit more about thecollege application process.
And now I work with families totry to help their kids find
schools that are good academic,social, and financial fits for
the both the student and theirfamilies, and then guiding them
(01:58):
through the application process.
I think my major goal is to helpkids find their narrative,
alleviate the stress of theprocess, and then really
hopefully empower kids throughthe process.
SPEAKER_01 (02:14):
And so we've successfully we, I say, but I
can't take full credit for it.
We we have two kids inuniversity now.
And it was, I remember with theeldest, just feeling like I
don't even know what I don'tknow.
Like I don't even know what toask.
And so what we're hoping for umwith this series is that we help
(02:38):
um just help you start tounderstand and think about some
of the questions that you canstart to consider because full
just you need to understand noteverybody goes to Yale and not
everybody's gonna go to Harvard.
And that is 100% okay.
And your your child can have anamazing university experience at
(03:02):
a huge spectrum of differentschools.
So um Hannah and her um and herexpertise can help us start to
like peel back some of thelayers on this onion and figure
out what it is we want to findout.
SPEAKER_00 (03:17):
I think something I always tell families is there's
more than 4,000 universities andcolleges in the United States.
Then you have Ad Canada, you addEurope, you add Australia, um,
maybe some community colleges inthere.
And it's kind of an infinitenumber of institutions for uh
that are available for students.
And so we really don't want tobe limited by um, you know, the
(03:39):
top 10 schools we can all name.
SPEAKER_01 (03:42):
So we're gonna, as I said, this is a series.
And today what we're gonna betalking about is um what it is
that um colleges want to see ina student um applying and how
you as a parent um can supportyour kid in this.
Um, we will um obviously this issomething that kind of weaves
into all of the different topicsthat are that are a part of
(04:04):
applying for university.
So we'll um touch back on thistopic.
But what we're gonna look at isthe major chunks of things that
um college admissions officesare going to be looking at.
And um, other than my experiencewith uh the two applying, my my
two own kids applying, um, I do,I think I've gone to way too
(04:27):
many of these sorts of webinars.
And I did um recently listen toa college admissions trend um
webinar as well.
So um we have a lot ofinformation to throw at you.
So hopefully you grab um a cupof coffee and a pen and a
notebook, and we're gonna getstarted.
So let's talk about what areyou, what do you, Hannah, see as
(04:47):
the um main things that peopleum should be, students applying
should be looking at.
SPEAKER_00 (04:53):
Yeah, so admissions officer after admissions
officer, they all say the numberone thing is the rigor of the
coursework that a student ischoosing to take, and then the
grades in those um courses.
So the number one thing uh kidsshould be doing is selecting the
most rigorous courses thatthey're capable of taking that's
offered by their school.
(05:13):
And so I know that when you'reswitching high schools every two
years, this can be intimidating.
And um, the idea is whateverthat school offers, you should
try to take.
Um the school will send out to auniversity something called a
school profile.
So if you're at a school that itdoes not offer APs, that is
fine.
(05:34):
Universities will get the schoolprofile that tells exactly the
coursework that is offered.
Um, parents often ask me, like,well, my kids aren't going to
get straight A's if they takethe most rigorous coursework.
And um I have lots of thoughtson that as a former teacher.
Um, first of all, uh I thinkthat if you can get a beer
better in a course that is morerigorous, a student should try
(05:56):
to take that course.
Um, but then second, and this isvery personal to me, I think
that taking a college, I'm Itaught AP stats and AP Calic for
many years.
And I think that um taking acollege level course is a lot
more than the academics.
It's teaching a kid, uh showinga kid what a college level
course will look like, feellike, what that work level is
(06:16):
like, um, learning how to study,learning how to time manage.
Um, you want kids to make thosemistakes when they're in high
school rather than when they getto college.
And one of the things college islooking for that sometimes we
can forget as the parent parentsand students is they want to
make sure that this kid is gonnasurvive and thrive in their
institution.
(06:37):
And so it's not justdemonstrating that a kid's not
just demonstrating that they'rewilling to take on a challenge,
they're demonstrating that theyhave um that they can survive
the rigors um and that they'vedeveloped a skill set um to take
on an even further challengewhen they're in college.
SPEAKER_01 (06:56):
So just to um summarize on that, it's not just
GPA.
unknown (06:59):
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (07:00):
I mean GPA, GPA is obviously important, but they're
looking at the the rigor of theclasses, and especially at least
according to the webinar that umI was listening to, it's the
classes that apply.
If if a kid knows, I mean, ifyou're 18 and you don't know
what you want to be when yougrow up, that is 100% okay.
I just changed my mind and I'm52.
(07:22):
So um what it what they arelooking for is if that class
applies towards what it is theywant to study, that's also a
consideration.
Even if if it's so for example,um they they decide they want to
study um medicine and then theylook, obviously, bio is going to
be a rigorous class anyway, butthat would be something that
(07:45):
they would take an extra focuson to because it applies towards
what they will be studying atuniversity level.
SPEAKER_00 (07:52):
Yeah, I think it's like important to remember that
if your son or daughter wants topursue nursing, to your point,
like they want to see the higherlevels in the bio.
If your school offers an anatomyclass, they want to see that
anatomy class being taken.
Um, some kids, I've had kidsworry, like, oh, well, you know,
to the point about GPA, like,oh, well, I get this huge bump
(08:14):
if I take this class.
So I don't want to take anatomybecause it's not an honors
class.
Colleges, um, the GPA uh thatyou report on your common app,
which is actually optional toreport, it literally, you do not
have to report your GPA on thecommon app.
And that is because colleges aregonna go through on their own
their process of recalculatingthe GPA, and they're not gonna
(08:35):
wait what your high school foundimportant.
They're gonna wait what theirinstitution and their
institutional priorities findimportant.
And so that is why, like thefirst number one thing colleges
are looking for is that rigor ofthat coursework and whether it
aligns with your program, notnecessarily the GPA, or I should
say the GPA as the high schoolcalculates it.
SPEAKER_01 (08:55):
Okay, excellent.
What else are they looking for?
SPEAKER_00 (08:58):
Yeah, so you wanna so back to like class selection,
you want to make sure that yourkids, your um kids are taking
four years of math, English,history, and foreign language.
Um, a lot of schools and evenstates don't require, it's hard
to believe, but four years ofsome of these subjects,
especially foreign language.
Um, and so I just to make surethat you don't uh that you're
(09:22):
keeping your options open, Ialways ask kids to take four
years of each.
There's some exceptions.
Some schools only let kids takefive classes.
And let's say you then this isgetting into the nitty-gritty,
but you know you want to go tonursing, then maybe you're gonna
take two sciences and not Frenchyour last year of high school.
Um, but it's um that can all beexplained in a section called
(09:46):
your additional informationsection.
But if you have space, you wantto make sure you're taking those
four levels of foreign language.
The more selective universitiesare definitely gonna be looking
at that.
And then if your kid does knowwhat they want to do, so for
example, um if they if you know,if you're a California state
resident, you know you're gonnago to the California state
schools.
They have really weirdrequirements.
Like, for example, you have totake, and I want to get this
(10:08):
right, um, you have to take afull year of art or visual or
performing arts, which is notunusual, except that Cal State
schools want to see the same,they want to see the same class
um for that full year, or theywant to see two that are in the
same discipline.
So you can't take like theaterand then ceramics and count that
as your full year of art.
(10:29):
So these are the type ofnitty-gritty stuff you want to
make sure that if your kids havean idea of the system they want
to go to, like the state schoolsystem they're interested in
going to, or what they want tomajor in, like the big ones,
nursing, engineering, business,that you are in tune with what
those potential um requirementsare.
And education.
unknown (10:49):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (10:50):
Definitely.
SPEAKER_01 (10:50):
Teachers, think about this, future teachers.
SPEAKER_00 (10:53):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (10:53):
Okay, so what uh as a parent, how can we help our
how can we help our students umthrough this course selection
process?
Like, I mean, I guess we couldask for transcripts and stuff,
but how do we help the kids stayon track?
SPEAKER_00 (11:09):
Yeah, I think the best way is just encourage kids
to take the risk of takingharder coursework.
And sometimes this is fightingthe system.
Sometimes an English teacherwill say, you know, the kid's
not ready for this.
And if you think your kid isready, it's just helping that
kid learn to self-advocate.
Um I also think that like havingthe question, um asking
(11:31):
questions and helping um kids dothat self-reflection about what
they would potentially want todo.
Um, at Peak, we do we use aplatform called View Science to
do some of that uh careerexploration.
I think something to remind kidsbecause it's really stressful
when you're 17 and people areasking what you want to be when
you grow up, I get stressed outwhen people ask me that.
(11:51):
Um, so one thing I try to remindkids is, and I'm not gonna get
the percent right, but theamount of people who actually
work within the field that theymajored in is very, very low.
Um, what we really want to, sowe want to be expansive in these
conversations.
Um, but if you do have a kid whowants to go to engineering
school, um, who you know dreamsof being pre-vet, these are
(12:13):
conversations where it's like,well, what is that gonna look
like starting at the high schoollevel?
What is that coursework gonnalook like?
SPEAKER_01 (12:22):
So I know we're gonna talk about this a little
bit later as well, but um one ofthe things that I kind of
connect to how a parent cansupport here as well is um, you
know, I mean, especially forsomeone going into sciences and
then they load up on the scienceclasses and not then able to
take French or or anotherforeign language or whatever, by
(12:43):
supporting the extracurricularactivities that also um kind of
expand on um the the learningrepertoire of the of the
student.
That's another way that parents,and we're gonna talk about
extracurricular.
SPEAKER_00 (12:57):
We can jump right to it.
SPEAKER_01 (12:58):
You wanna let's let's hop hop down there then.
SPEAKER_00 (13:00):
Yeah, so extracurriculars is huge.
Um the real the question thatyou know schools are looking at
is what do you want to, what areyou doing with your time when
you're not doing academics?
And this kind of falls into thenarrative, you know, what is the
student's narrative?
What is their story?
And then this is somethingthat's not always talked about,
but schools are really lookingfor like, do these kids' values
align with the values of ourinstitution?
(13:23):
Um and so if you know what youwant to do, another like great
way to um show that your valuesand your passions align with the
institution is through yourextracurriculars.
Again, this is especially truewith the big ones, right?
Computer science, engineering,these more selective programs.
Um, some of them won't even lookat an application where a kid
(13:44):
has not done an extracurricularthat aligns with that program.
Um, again, this comes back tothey don't want, so let's think
about nursing.
And I have talked to manyadmissions officers about this.
They're not just looking for thekid with the perfect GPA and the
perfect SAT scores who says theydream of being a nurse.
Because what happens when theystep into that nursing setting
(14:04):
for the first time?
And remember, these institutionsdon't want to just accept you,
they're invested in getting youthrough that uh four-year
degree.
And so they need to make surethat you've had experience.
What happens the first time tosee blood, right?
I mean, it sounds so silly, butthey want to see that
experience.
They want to see it if you're anengine going applying to
engineering school as well.
Um, and so that means gettingthose internships, um you know,
(14:27):
doing volunteer work, whateverit may be, to show true
experience in the um, show thatyou've truly been exposed to the
field, not just that youracademics are stellar.
Um, I think the valuesdiscussion is really important,
and that's something you canlook at on school's websites.
But like an example is umVillanova is like a very um
service-oriented university, andthey're really looking for kids
(14:50):
that can demonstrate um both intheir personal narratives, but
also in their extracurriculars,that they're committed to
serving their community.
SPEAKER_01 (14:58):
That's one of the things that um really stood out
to me in the in the webinar wasyou know, that the character and
the contributions to community.
What does this student bring toour school?
How will this student um bothintegrate and um provide
positive um impact on school'scommunity?
(15:19):
Um and the other thing that theyreally drew um underscored was
the um character attributes,which are another way that you
can really um emphasize those oruh display evidence of are
through the extracurricularactivities.
SPEAKER_00 (15:38):
Yeah.
I always tell kids um we shouldthink of extracurriculars as
three buckets.
So the first bucket is like softskills.
So those are your like timemanagement skills.
What happens when you're put ina challenging situation?
And you can demonstrate thesethrough sports, through work.
Totally underrated, but having asummer job, and I know that's
hard for a foreign foreignservice kid, but if you go home,
(16:00):
you know, like we we go home tomy in-law's home in Tennessee,
right?
Are my kids working at the localsupermarket and not just hanging
out at the pool?
Um, you can, there's lots ofdifferent ways you can
demonstrate those soft skills,but that's a really important
part of the extracurricular umnarrative.
The second thing is intellectualcuriosity, and that's like what
(16:21):
does your kid love to do?
And this is can be as like kookyas, you know, I don't know,
ancient Egypt, right?
But like what is this kidpassionate about or creative
writing, poetry, what reallylike gets them excited?
And then the final one is givingback, and that is um depending
on the school, that's ofdiffering levels of importance,
(16:43):
but most schools really want tosee some service um oriented
extracurricular on theirapplication.
It's also really good for kidsto give back to their
communities, right?
SPEAKER_01 (16:52):
It's especially um those of us that are overseas,
um with you know, an embassy orwhatever, and your kid is going
to an international school.
Many schools do require thatthat um the CAS, the community
service, um, which I love andappreciate and I think my boys
do every year, every semester,rather than just the one
(17:15):
semester um required, because Ithink it's a really valuable
life lesson for for kids toreally just own giving back.
We're all very, very fortunate.
And so helping those that aresomewhat or very much less so is
is important.
Um anything else onextracurriculars?
(17:38):
Should we talk about testing?
SPEAKER_00 (17:40):
Elephant in the corner.
Okay, so testing policies reallyvary.
Um COVID has changed a lot.
Um there's school, there's fourdifferent main buckets of
testing requirements schoolsfall into.
So first is test optional, whichmeans a kid can or cannot submit
(18:01):
their test scores, they candecide.
Um, test blind, meaning even ifa kid submits their scores,
they're not um they're not goingto look at them.
Test required are the schoolsthat are now requiring test
scores, and then testconditional.
So basically, um, like anexample is the North Carolina
state system.
If you have um less than a 2.8there of a weighted GPA, you're
(18:24):
required to submit a test score.
If you have higher, you don'tneed to.
Um, the strategizing behind testscores is challenging.
Um, I always tell students theif you when you have your test
score, send an email to youradmissions officer and just ask,
would you submit this testscore?
Um, it doesn't hurt to ask, andit schools have different
(18:45):
institutional priorities thatwe're not always aware of.
So there may be a test optionalschool that even though their
median test score is a 1400 andyou have a 1350, they want you
to submit that 1350 for reasonspotentially that aren't totally
open to us, and like prioritiesthey have as an institution.
Um, when we look at test scores,it can be really overwhelming
(19:06):
right now because every year themedian SAT scores are
increasing.
But what we're not seeing whenwe look at this data is that
less and less students aresubmitting their scores.
So only kids that are submittingwho do extremely well are
submitting the scores.
Um, and that can also beextremely discouraging for kids.
And I think our role as parentsis just to help kids um do their
(19:27):
research, reach out toadmissions officers, and then
just be really strategic aboutwhere you send your test scores.
Um and then also strategicabout, and this is something
I've noticed the Foreign Servicefamilies are less aware of, but
strategic about taking the orwhich test you're going to take
and then how much time you'regoing to spend studying.
(19:48):
Um, you can take so all schoolsexcept both the SAT and ACT.
Um, if you're from the South,you tend to be more familiar
with the ACT, ACT exam.
It seems like the schools I workwith abroad um tend to offer the
SAT test.
And kids do perform.
There are a group of kids thatperform better on the ACTs, and
(20:09):
some significantly better.
Um, if your kid tends to be ableto process and read a little
more quickly, the ACT is a morestraightforward test, but it's a
faster test.
The SAT, so from my perspective,the SAT questions can be a
little, I don't want to saytrickier, but a little more
complicated.
Um, and the ACT tends to favorkids who are very quick test
(20:33):
takers.
Um and so having thoseconversations with your kids,
like is this something we'regonna invest our time and
potentially money in studyingfor the SATs or studying for the
ACTs is really important forfamilies to do.
SPEAKER_01 (20:48):
Especially at the same time as the workload in
courses in your regular highschool classes are is ramping
up.
Totally.
It it can be because I think Ithink a lot of what is being
tested isn't necessarily thematerial that is being offered
in the grades at which you aresupposed to be taking the tests.
(21:08):
And so I think it's and fulldisclosure, um, neither of my
now college um students well,they did take the SAT because I
made them, um, but they theydidn't submit their scores.
And I also just our kids went toum IB schools, so I made them
(21:30):
take the the tests because theydon't know what a multiple
choice exam is, and that issomething that um is not
generally a form of testing atall, even approached in an IB
school, which I love.
But then when um they go touniversity and all of their
freshmen and sophomore classesgive exams that are multiple
(21:53):
choice, then they're at adisadvantage.
So that's why I made them.
I was not the favorite mom atthe moment.
SPEAKER_00 (22:01):
I think that the I testing is extremely
nerve-wracking for kids.
And um I love the word strategicaround it because the every kid
and every university should havea different strategy.
And we instead of framing it aslike, this is a measure of your
intelligence, which no parentwould ever do, but which is how
(22:22):
a kid feels.
Rather, it's like, let's justsee how you do and see what our
plan is.
Um, whether that means, youknow, you're gonna take the ACT
and I'm gonna set it up in thelibrary so you can study on
weekends, or it's like, you knowwhat, for the schools you want
to apply to, this isn't this isnot on our worry list.
Let's focus on um like our ID orAP coursework.
SPEAKER_01 (22:43):
So actually, um just an admin question.
Now SAT is available in personand online.
SPEAKER_00 (22:51):
But you have to be at a testing center.
SPEAKER_01 (22:53):
Online?
I thought it was like you coulddo it in your home.
But this is a detail that I'mnot 100% sure of.
But I don't know that ACT isoffered more than once a year
overseas.
But that is not that is notsomething I know for sure.
Do you know this?
SPEAKER_00 (23:13):
So you I'm pretty sure in Saudi Arabia it's
offered.
Oh, I'm sure here yeah.
And I know that when I was inKosovo, I had kids driving
across international borders totake the ACT.
So I don't want to speak.
I I I think this is where likeparents can really support um
their kids because it mayinvolve going to another
(23:36):
country.
SPEAKER_01 (23:37):
Yeah, and this is you you definitely have to do
your homework and front aheadfor these for these exams.
Um, and the other thing that isworth note uh noting is that
these um exams and these scoresare not necessarily at all
relevant for other countries'schools.
SPEAKER_00 (23:53):
100%.
This is a US standard.
Yeah, we probably should havesaid this from the get-go.
I think um later on I'll do uhsomething on European and
Canadian schools, but for thisis mostly from the perspective
of applying to American schools.
In fact, like if you're applyingto the UK, we're looking at a
very the schools are looking ata very different set um of
(24:15):
criteria.
SPEAKER_01 (24:18):
So let's move on to um another thing that they are
looking at um with the collegeapplication, and that is the um
letter, letters ofrecommendation.
SPEAKER_00 (24:30):
Yeah.
So letters of recommendation,um, particularly smaller schools
are going to look very closelyat letters of recommendation.
Um, wearing my teacher hatrather than my college counselor
hat.
Um I was asked each year formore than 20 recommendations.
And even when I waswell-intentioned, they started
to blur together.
(24:51):
And so something I really,really recommend all my students
do is that they identify acouple characteristics that they
would like highlighted in theirletter of recommendation, and
then they identify times whenthey demonstrated that
characteristic.
And so lots of schools have kidsdo brag sheets, lots of schools
ask kids to send resumes.
The problem with that is ateacher, if a teacher
(25:12):
regurgitates the resume, theresume is already probably in
the application and it's notreally adding anything.
And I have been guilty of this.
What you really want is to addsomething, what as a what
students want is that theirteacher adds specifics that
won't be elsewhere in theapplication.
And so, for example, if your kidwants to highlight maybe such a
(25:36):
math, but like theirproblem-solving resilience,
right?
Their ability to persevere whenthere are challenging math
problems.
So, one way they could, if thatthey could say, this is what I
want highlighted in my lettersof rec.
And I recommend two or threecharacteristics.
I like you to um highlight how Ipersevered through challenging
problems and then give aspecific example.
(25:57):
Like, remember when I failed myunit two, unit four probability
test, and I came and did testcorrections every single day.
And even though you wouldn't letme retake it, I was determined
to understand the problems.
Um maybe it's their ability towork in groups.
So, you know, no matter, youknow, in a class with lots of
different abilities, whoever youplace me with, I was willing to
(26:20):
work with them.
So very, very specific examplesof the character traits you want
demonstrated.
Um always write a thank younote.
It's a ton of work to writeletters of rec.
And I think it goes a reallylong way.
The writing a thank you notedoesn't benefit your student,
but it benefits all the studentsthat come after and ask for a
letter of wreck.
(26:40):
Um, one thing is that manycolleges accept outside letters
of recommendation.
And um, when I take on kids lastminute, this is one of those um
big surprises because a lot ofhigh schools don't talk about
this.
Um, but you can even get aletter of rec from a neighbor,
um, you can get a letter of recfrom a coach, uh, a religious
(27:01):
group leader.
And these can really, really umgive colleges a totally
different um or just totallydifferent insights into who your
kids are.
And I think they make forreally, really strong
recommendations.
But you want to be asking forthose in advance and so start
talking with your kids, like whocould be an interesting
recommender that's notnecessarily your teacher that
could share something about you.
(27:23):
Um and then you want to makesure you're showing um the
institution different sides ofum the student is showing an
institution different sides oftheir personality.
So if you're passionate aboutforeign languages, like having
the French and the Italianteacher write your letter of
rec, I think those will bepretty redundant.
So I really encourage kids totry to do one rec from the
(27:44):
humanities, one from the mathand science.
Um, trying to focus on 11th and12th grade, what you were like
as a 14 or 15-year-old ninthgrader doesn't tell colleges a
whole lot.
And then also those higher levelcourses, I find that those often
have the most interestingletters of rec because it does
show like persevering through achallenge.
(28:06):
Um asking for letters of recearly is really important.
Some schools limit how manyteachers are allowed to write,
and some teachers just say noonce they get to a certain
number.
Um, and the quality definitelydiminishes the more as teachers
write more and more letters ofrec over the course of the year.
So this is something that Iwould definitely be having that
conversation for your kids in11th grade, having that
(28:26):
conversation now and starting toapproach teachers in April of
2026 for the 11th graders.
SPEAKER_01 (28:33):
Yeah, I mean, I think it's just a kind gesture
to the workload that teachersalready have to be able to help
them manage the um the the rightthe letter writing load as well.
Um and I also, according to umthe webinar that um I I heard,
there was um there's a lot ofemphasis placed on the letter of
(28:56):
recommendation from thecounselor as well.
And so and and and Hannah and Iwere talking and she said
rightly so, like this this woulddefinitely benefit the kids that
are at a smaller school becausethey will um get to know their
counselor in a much morepersonal way.
But also, um, you know, maybeencouraging your kids to
(29:18):
interact in a positive andeffective manner with a
counselor would be um a goodrecommendation because then that
recommendation letter from thatcounselor will be more
meaningful and actually includesome of the character attributes
that um schools are looking for.
Any last thoughts on letters ofrecommendation?
SPEAKER_00 (29:41):
No, other than that it's something easy to like save
to the end because it's a painand uh and also you don't have
to do much besides ask, but justI think it's a time to be really
thoughtful and it it especiallywith the smaller schools, some
of the larger schools they'reeither they're they've some
don't even require letters orbracket and they have four
minutes to.
Through the application, theymay not be looking so closely,
(30:02):
but we we know these smallerinstitutions really, really um
take into consideration theletters of recommendation.
SPEAKER_01 (30:10):
Okay, now um the number one tool in my mind for
how your kid is gonna helpreally stand out, and that is
the essay.
SPEAKER_00 (30:18):
Yes, okay, so this is for the American system.
The UK systems essay is atotally different um, yes, it's
very different.
Um, for the American system.
So the first thing I and throughP College Consulting, we have a
long, we have a workshop that wedo with kids to help them
(30:38):
develop their essay topic.
But if you're the parent workingwith your kids, I the first
question I would ask is what doyou want the school to know
about you that isn't already inyour application?
Um, and so if it's, you know,being an all-American athlete,
like the school knows that,right?
It's all over your application.
It's in the award section, it'sin the extracurricular, it's in
the activity section, and it'sprobably in your letters of rec.
(31:00):
Um, but what's something that'snot in there?
Um, I think a lot of kids getoverwhelmed because they think
like, my life is normal, nothingcrazy's happened, I don't have a
tragic story.
Every admissions officer I talkto say the most powerful essays
are not the ones that tell acrazy story, because a crazy or
a tragic story doesn't reallygive a lot of insights into the
(31:26):
actual applicant.
Um, and so you want to just keepremembering, and this is so
unnatural for kids to write thisway, but we are you're right,
the student is writing aboutthemselves.
And so that is just a veryunnatural way of writing and
very hard, particularly forteenagers, for that level of
reflection.
(31:47):
Um, I always say to kids, like,this is a style of writing that
you're never asked to do in highschool and you're never asked to
do in college.
And so the fact that they do itfor 650 words to determine
whether they get into universityis a little bit strange.
Um, and so if it feels weird andfunky and unnatural, it is.
It is, yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (32:08):
But also like it's it it's the the students'
opportunity to really justshine.
And it's not about bragging,it's not about um I mean when I
think about the the essays thatmy my boys wrote, neither one
were about like greataccomplishments or um anything
(32:31):
like well they were memorable,but it it's just the things that
kind of glued them together andhelped to feed their
personalities.
And it was just, you know, whenuh reading the essays I knew
different character aspects ofthese kids.
I mean, I knew them alreadybecause they were my own boys,
but nonetheless, like in if Iwere a stranger, a perfect
(32:53):
stranger reading that essay, Iwould be like, oh, okay, that's
really interesting about thisboy, and blah, blah, blah, blah,
blah.
Um, and I think it's, I mean,650 words, you can do a lot with
that.
SPEAKER_00 (33:04):
Yeah.
I think a lot of um atinternational schools, a lot of
guidance counselors say, don'tjust write about changing school
every two years, or don't justwrite about going to high school
abroad.
And I do think that that is goodadvice, but that can sometimes
scare kids.
It's not that you shouldn'twrite about that, it's that pick
a very, very, very specificthing.
(33:24):
Um, you know, I just was workingwith a girl who her intro to her
essay was that she had aPhilippine, you know, she was um
American, but had a Filipinoaccent until she went to
kindergarten, right?
Um, pick something very specificabout the experience that is
unique to you, that if you're atyour international school, the
(33:47):
person to your right and theperson to your left is not going
to have that same experience.
And that could be an a growthexperience.
Um, I mean, that's the best, isif you can show growth, but um
you know, a time when you'vebeen disappointed, um, having
the kid think about somethingthat's very, very personal.
(34:07):
And then um the biggest, thehardest things for kids to do
when they write their essay isthey want to tell a story.
And that's we want to show thestory.
We want to write a personalnarrative that is demonstrating
a character trait, not tellingthe story.
(34:29):
And so you want to actually,when they're the actual writing
style, and this is a little bithard to explain without actual
examples, but you want to putthem in the center of their
writing.
Um rather than telling aboutwhat happened, they can do this
by um using imagery or by usingnarrative, but really pushing
(34:51):
your kids just over and over andover.
How can you show that youpersevered, not say, I
persevered when my parents mademe go to four high schools in
four years?
That is very, very challengingto do.
SPEAKER_01 (35:07):
It's also not just one essay that they get to
write.
It's multiple opportunities toshare their voice.
Um, so what can you tell usabout all of these writing
opportunities kids are gonnahave?
SPEAKER_00 (35:25):
So the supplementals, by the time,
especially kids who are applyingto a lot of schools, get the
supplementals, they're like, ohno, they're always like, who's
gonna actually read this?
Time like, no, no, no.
Like if a school is asking for asupplemental, it's because they
are using it to help them make adecision.
They don't want to read 10,000.
Why are you majoring in thisessay?
And so actually, for manyschools, the supplementals may
(35:48):
be even more important than thepersonal narrative.
So now is not the time to slowdown, right?
When you get to thesupplementals, focus.
So the three most commonsupplementals, why this major,
why this college?
And then there's kind ofdifferent variations on the
diversity questions, like whatum, what about your experiences
will contribute to the diversityof our campus, um, or you know,
(36:12):
talk about a time you'veinteracted with someone who's
different than you.
Um unfortunately, these types ofquestions are less common right
now, but they're still, I wouldsay these are the diversity
questions less common.
Um, but all three of these arethe three most common.
And the good news you can tellyour kids is once you've written
the why this major essay, youcan use it for more than one
(36:33):
university if you tweak it alittle bit.
Um tweak it a little bit.
But then there's also some wackyum supplementals like USC asking
about your favorite snack orwhat TV show you'll binge next,
or Barnard that asks you towrite a longer essay say about a
conversation with a woman whoseviews were different than your
(36:53):
own.
Um, and so for some of theseschools, it's a it's a real
commitment um to complete thosesupplementals.
And again, we want to thinkabout the same, um, think about
supplementals the same way.
We think about personalnarrative.
This is a time to show somethingabout yourself that may not be
in other parts of theapplication.
Um, this is a time to show, nottell.
(37:15):
I'm really brave.
No, show me how you are brave.
Um, and then lastly, it's also atime to show that you've done
your research.
Um, with the common app, kidscan just apply to a lot of
different schools.
And the supplementals are a timewhen they really schools really
want to see.
It's the only time you'rewriting directly to that school
because a personal narrative isgoing to every school.
(37:36):
You're writing directly to thatschool.
You've read that vision andmission of the school, and
you're showing how you align umwith that uh with the values of
the school.
And so it's a really valuabletime um to demonstrate that
you're really serious aboutattending that institution.
SPEAKER_01 (37:55):
And a lot of um universities will publish their
um possible supplemental essaytopics or questions, um, like
usually spring, right?
SPEAKER_00 (38:06):
Like later in the spring.
They're formalized when thecommon app comes out.
But yeah, and you can see past,you can get a good sense online
to see past supplementals.
SPEAKER_01 (38:15):
That helps your kid um maybe start preparing their
thoughts, kind of organizingwhat they might want to write
about as they start thinkingabout where they want to apply.
SPEAKER_00 (38:26):
Yeah.
Okay, so the last section is theadditional information section,
um, which is an additionalsection where you can basically
write about anything you missedin the applications.
Kids tend to skip over um thissection.
If you're working with me,nothing is optional.
And so you will be writingsomething there.
Um, for foreign service kids,this is extremely important.
You want to talk about exactlythe moves that you've made if
(38:49):
they're unusual grading systems,if you have unusual coursework,
right?
I attended school in thiscountry.
They required I take this class,thus, I couldn't continue with
my German studies or um, youknow, switching between
different IV programs, differentcoursework may be offered.
Um, you want to talk aboutextenuating situations with the
family, right?
(39:09):
Dad was on a tour in Iraq, andso I was, you know, in Virginia
with my parents and or you know,with one uh parent, and these
were the stresses that were onmy family.
All of that, it's a really goodtime to explain um situations.
You can explain a bad grade,right?
You can explain uh moving, um,you know, moving between
(39:36):
education systems and strugglesyou may have had with math
that's taught differently.
Um, I think it's a really,really crucial uh section for
every kid to fill out and toexplain anything that they
haven't been able to explain.
That's really important becausethat blank can probably just
feel like a free pass,otherwise.
And I don't know, I assume I'llget my contact info, but I have
(39:59):
like 10 questions I ask kidsthat I can send to anybody who's
interested.
That um it's just 10 questionsthat ever I've never I've never
had a kid who didn't have atleast one thing on there, like,
oh, that's a good point.
I forgot about health classfreshman year and that grade,
right?
You just want to help it helpsbrainstorm things that they um
they may want to explain ontheir app application.
SPEAKER_01 (40:21):
We will definitely include her her contact info.
SPEAKER_00 (40:24):
I think, like, sorry, I'm just thinking of all
these different additionalinformation things, but like
extracurriculars can be reallyhard when you're international.
Families only have one car, youcan't be going across town for
sporting practices in the sameway.
You can't get internships in thesame way, you can't be employed
on the local market in SaudiArabia, right?
And so we're located in SaudiArabia.
So I think that that's anotherum another thing that's really
(40:46):
important to explain anadditional information section.
SPEAKER_01 (40:49):
Well, that's a really good point.
And the other thing that um caninhibit um kids really being
mobile, especially overseas, isa lot of foreign service kids
don't have driver's licenses.
And so they can't get to andfrom whatever it is.
I mean, there's there's oftenother um transportation options,
but just it would definitelyimpact um how they can um
(41:13):
contribute to insert activityhere.
So yeah, okay, let's talk aboutum, I think another very
challenging part for um theapplication process, and
especially for foreign servicekids who are overseas, yeah,
that's demonstrated interest.
SPEAKER_00 (41:32):
Yeah, so students should demonstrate interest at
all the schools they'reinterested in applying to.
And this has been a change.
Um, but schools are reallyinterested in something called
yield.
They want to make sure that akid that they accept is actually
gonna attend.
And one way they've um that theytry to predict whether a kid
will actually attend theuniversity is whether that
(41:55):
school is or that student hasdemonstrated interest in
attending.
So I always tell kids, even if aschool doesn't says, because
they have to self-report ifthey're um, or most schools
self-report if they takedemonstrated interest as a
consideration in the applicationprocess.
But even if a school says theydon't, I do think it makes a
difference on the margin.
So the best way to demonstrateinterest is to tour the school,
(42:19):
go to an info session, all ofthat.
But even if you're in Boston,Massachusetts, there are
basically no families that cango afford to or have the time to
send their kids on eight to 12different college tours across
the United States.
Just not realistic, and schoolsknow that.
Um, and so there's a lot ofother ways you can demonstrate
interest, particularlypost-COVID.
There's been a lot more virtualoptions.
(42:40):
Um, I do a lot of virtual toursin my free time.
They're super high qualitypost-COVID.
Um, there's virtual tours,there's virtual info sessions.
Syracuse has CUs Connections, 15minutes with an admissions
officer.
Um, you can follow them onsocial media.
You should sign up for mailinglists.
Many of them track whether youopen emails.
(43:01):
And so one of my best practicesfor kids is have them do a
college email account and thenjust open all the emails and
delete them.
Um, if you're lucky and theyyou're um the school your kids
at hosts college fairs, thoseare excellent to attend.
Introduce yourself to theadmissions rep, send them an
email after saying how great itwas to meet them.
(43:22):
This is all really important.
Um, and then the last thing Itell all my kids to do who are
living internationally is youshould reach out directly to the
rep.
Um, the rep that's listed onlinewill be the person reading your
application and just explain,like in our case, we're in Saudi
Arabia.
I won't get to UMass Boston.
I mean, you know, I won't begoing to the United States until
I go for college.
(43:42):
And so I've done the virtualfair, I've done this, I mean,
I've done the virtual tour, I'vedone the info session, and then
ask a really specific questionthat isn't easily available
online.
Don't ask, do you offer biology101?
Um, but a really specificquestion that's pertinent to you
to show that university that youare actually um serious about
(44:04):
attending and seriouslyinterested.
And just like from an ethicsperspective, at this point it is
so easy for kids to apply totons and tons of colleges.
And I work, I work with my kidsa lot on thinking about you
know, is this a college that Iact that the students actually
interested in attending?
And if you are interested inattending, then demonstrating
(44:27):
interest should come verynaturally.
Because if you're interested inattending, you're gonna have
questions.
You're gonna want to do thevirtual tour.
And if you're not, let's takethat off the list because you
know, we're all part of theproblem of these really low
acceptance rates.
And so um I think it's really,really important that we
encourage our kids to do theirresearch.
And again, this is like thisprocess can be really fun for
(44:49):
kids if if framed in a way thatis empowering and exciting for
them rather than just a sourceof stress.
SPEAKER_01 (44:56):
So actually, on that, um you were talking, you
just briefly mentioned theacceptance rates, which um I
think is like spurring thenumber of applications that
people submit.
So the increased applicationssubmitted is is basically like,
oh, well, but they're notaccepting any anybody.
But again, according to thiswebinar I saw, um acceptance
(45:20):
rates for state universities is73%.
That's that's not low.
So I think absolutely the moreprivate and more prestigious
universities are going to have amuch, much, much more selective
um admissions process, butthey're also getting a lot more
applications.
(45:40):
And so I feel like um it's notnecessarily necessary to um
submit, you know, 20 or 30applications because each, well,
I mean, financially speaking,that's a lot of essays and a lot
of money for application fees,but also um depending on where
(46:05):
those applications are landing,the acceptance rates aren't
necessarily that low.
So I think this is one of thoseum what is the word I'm looking
for?
The the popular myths that uhjust keeps growing and growing.
SPEAKER_00 (46:22):
I think what's um there's a very, very, very small
percent of the 4,000 schoolsthat are highly selective.
SPEAKER_01 (46:33):
Yes.
SPEAKER_00 (46:33):
Um, and and most schools are not.
And so um again, yes, that is athat is a myth.
Um and I think we'll we will atour the next podcast when we
talk about what students shouldlook for in schools, the dance
of like, you know, colleges,it's kind of like dating, right?
Like the colleges are lookingfor schools for kids that would
(46:54):
be a good fit, and kids arelooking for schools that would
be a good fit.
Um, but we'll talk a little bitmore about like the rankings and
selectivity and all of that,because some of that there is
some artificial, just because auh a kid a school becomes quote
unquote more selective, um, liketheir their admissions rates
(47:15):
drop dramatically, the qualityof candidates may not have
changed at all.
Um, the quality of kids who getaccepted may not have changed at
all.
Um, and so there's it's kind ofit's it's tough to read behind
the data.
Um and there's lots of nuance toit.
Um, but a low acceptance rate,first of all, doesn't
(47:36):
necessarily say anything aboutthe quality of the academics,
but it also doesn't necessarilymean that the uh the SAT score,
higher SAT scores and higherGPAs are needed to be admitted.
SPEAKER_01 (47:49):
All valid, valid points.
Um, so this time we talked aboutum what it is uh colleges are
looking for in their applicantin their applicants and how
parents can support their theirkiddos through this process.
Um we talked about rigor andgrades, we talked about um
(48:11):
extracurricular activities, wetalked about the beast that is
standardized testing, we talkedabout letters of recommendation,
essays, and demonstratedinterests.
Um, so tune in for our nextpodcast where we talk a little a
bit more, we look a little a bitmore from the flip side on what
(48:31):
um kids should be looking for,could be looking for in schools,
and how parents can supportthem.
Any last thoughts, Hannah?
SPEAKER_00 (48:39):
Yeah, I think that so I work with parents, families
pay me to work with kids throughtheir um college application
process.
Um, but I do have resources thatI can share with parents if they
if you have specific questions,for example, like coming up with
an essay topic or um even asthings as like, what questions
(49:00):
can I ask that show that I'minterested, but that aren't
dumb, right?
Like I have a long list ofthose.
So if there's a you shouldn'tuse the word dumb, but aren't
silly questions.
Um, so if there's any way, we'rein this together in this foreign
service family world.
So if there's any ways I can behelpful um with specific
questions about specificuniversities or on the
(49:21):
application process, how's mycontact show?
SPEAKER_01 (49:25):
We're we'll um link um Hannah's um contact info in
the show notes, and so you'll beable to find um an easy way to
get in touch with her there.
And uh we look forward to ournext recording soon, and we'll
share it here.
Thank you so much for listening.
Hi everyone.
Thank you so much for joining.
This is Susie Church Brown, andI am here with a very special
guest about a very uminteresting and important topic
for a number of you, especiallyif you have teenagers.
I am here today with HannahEngel Rabitzer.
(00:24):
Did I say that right?
Yeah.
Okay.
And she is an independenteducation consultant.
She works with a group calledPeak College Consulting, and
she'll tell you a little bitabout her background and her
portfolio.
And then we're going to diveinto a series about applying for
(00:47):
universities with ForeignService kids.
So Hannah, tell us aboutyourself.
SPEAKER_00 (00:50):
Yeah, hi.
My name's Hannah.
My background is as a secondarymath teacher.
And I've taught as a trailingspouse or EAFM.
I've taught in Kosovo and inMalawi.
And I have been slowlytransitioning in uh from the
world of secondary math teachingto the world of independent
(01:13):
education consulting.
I got my my interests in thisfield began from the lens of
like a college access lens andjust first working in DC public
schools and then with familiesliving abroad and just seeing
huge inequities in the amount ofinformation that families had
(01:35):
about colleges.
And so I started slowly takingclasses and trying to understand
a little bit more about thecollege application process.
And now I work with families totry to help their kids find
schools that are good academic,social, and financial fits for
the both the student and theirfamilies, and then guiding them
(01:58):
through the application process.
I think my major goal is to helpkids find their narrative,
alleviate the stress of theprocess, and then really
hopefully empower kids throughthe process.
SPEAKER_01 (02:14):
And so we've successfully we, I say, but I
can't take full credit for it.
We we have two kids inuniversity now.
And it was, I remember with theeldest, just feeling like I
don't even know what I don'tknow.
Like I don't even know what toask.
And so what we're hoping for umwith this series is that we help
(02:38):
um just help you start tounderstand and think about some
of the questions that you canstart to consider because full
just you need to understand noteverybody goes to Yale and not
everybody's gonna go to Harvard.
And that is 100% okay.
And your your child can have anamazing university experience at
(03:02):
a huge spectrum of differentschools.
So um Hannah and her um and herexpertise can help us start to
like peel back some of thelayers on this onion and figure
out what it is we want to findout.
SPEAKER_00 (03:17):
I think something I always tell families is there's
more than 4,000 universities andcolleges in the United States.
Then you have Ad Canada, you addEurope, you add Australia, um,
maybe some community colleges inthere.
And it's kind of an infinitenumber of institutions for uh
that are available for students.
And so we really don't want tobe limited by um, you know, the
(03:39):
top 10 schools we can all name.
SPEAKER_01 (03:42):
So we're gonna, as I said, this is a series.
And today what we're gonna betalking about is um what it is
that um colleges want to see ina student um applying and how
you as a parent um can supportyour kid in this.
Um, we will um obviously this issomething that kind of weaves
into all of the different topicsthat are that are a part of
(04:04):
applying for university.
So we'll um touch back on thistopic.
But what we're gonna look at isthe major chunks of things that
um college admissions officesare going to be looking at.
And um, other than my experiencewith uh the two applying, my my
two own kids applying, um, I do,I think I've gone to way too
(04:27):
many of these sorts of webinars.
And I did um recently listen toa college admissions trend um
webinar as well.
So um we have a lot ofinformation to throw at you.
So hopefully you grab um a cupof coffee and a pen and a
notebook, and we're gonna getstarted.
So let's talk about what areyou, what do you, Hannah, see as
(04:47):
the um main things that peopleum should be, students applying
should be looking at.
SPEAKER_00 (04:53):
Yeah, so admissions officer after admissions
officer, they all say the numberone thing is the rigor of the
coursework that a student ischoosing to take, and then the
grades in those um courses.
So the number one thing uh kidsshould be doing is selecting the
most rigorous courses thatthey're capable of taking that's
offered by their school.
(05:13):
And so I know that when you'reswitching high schools every two
years, this can be intimidating.
And um, the idea is whateverthat school offers, you should
try to take.
Um the school will send out to auniversity something called a
school profile.
So if you're at a school that itdoes not offer APs, that is
fine.
(05:34):
Universities will get the schoolprofile that tells exactly the
coursework that is offered.
Um, parents often ask me, like,well, my kids aren't going to
get straight A's if they takethe most rigorous coursework.
And um I have lots of thoughtson that as a former teacher.
Um, first of all, uh I thinkthat if you can get a beer
better in a course that is morerigorous, a student should try
(05:56):
to take that course.
Um, but then second, and this isvery personal to me, I think
that taking a college, I'm Itaught AP stats and AP Calic for
many years.
And I think that um taking acollege level course is a lot
more than the academics.
It's teaching a kid, uh showinga kid what a college level
course will look like, feellike, what that work level is
(06:16):
like, um, learning how to study,learning how to time manage.
Um, you want kids to make thosemistakes when they're in high
school rather than when they getto college.
And one of the things college islooking for that sometimes we
can forget as the parent parentsand students is they want to
make sure that this kid is gonnasurvive and thrive in their
institution.
(06:37):
And so it's not justdemonstrating that a kid's not
just demonstrating that they'rewilling to take on a challenge,
they're demonstrating that theyhave um that they can survive
the rigors um and that they'vedeveloped a skill set um to take
on an even further challengewhen they're in college.
SPEAKER_01 (06:56):
So just to um summarize on that, it's not just
GPA.
unknown (06:59):
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (07:00):
I mean GPA, GPA is obviously important, but they're
looking at the the rigor of theclasses, and especially at least
according to the webinar that umI was listening to, it's the
classes that apply.
If if a kid knows, I mean, ifyou're 18 and you don't know
what you want to be when yougrow up, that is 100% okay.
I just changed my mind and I'm52.
(07:22):
So um what it what they arelooking for is if that class
applies towards what it is theywant to study, that's also a
consideration.
Even if if it's so for example,um they they decide they want to
study um medicine and then theylook, obviously, bio is going to
be a rigorous class anyway, butthat would be something that
(07:45):
they would take an extra focuson to because it applies towards
what they will be studying atuniversity level.
SPEAKER_00 (07:52):
Yeah, I think it's like important to remember that
if your son or daughter wants topursue nursing, to your point,
like they want to see the higherlevels in the bio.
If your school offers an anatomyclass, they want to see that
anatomy class being taken.
Um, some kids, I've had kidsworry, like, oh, well, you know,
to the point about GPA, like,oh, well, I get this huge bump
(08:14):
if I take this class.
So I don't want to take anatomybecause it's not an honors
class.
Colleges, um, the GPA uh thatyou report on your common app,
which is actually optional toreport, it literally, you do not
have to report your GPA on thecommon app.
And that is because colleges aregonna go through on their own
their process of recalculatingthe GPA, and they're not gonna
(08:35):
wait what your high school foundimportant.
They're gonna wait what theirinstitution and their
institutional priorities findimportant.
And so that is why, like thefirst number one thing colleges
are looking for is that rigor ofthat coursework and whether it
aligns with your program, notnecessarily the GPA, or I should
say the GPA as the high schoolcalculates it.
SPEAKER_01 (08:55):
Okay, excellent.
What else are they looking for?
SPEAKER_00 (08:58):
Yeah, so you wanna so back to like class selection,
you want to make sure that yourkids, your um kids are taking
four years of math, English,history, and foreign language.
Um, a lot of schools and evenstates don't require, it's hard
to believe, but four years ofsome of these subjects,
especially foreign language.
Um, and so I just to make surethat you don't uh that you're
(09:22):
keeping your options open, Ialways ask kids to take four
years of each.
There's some exceptions.
Some schools only let kids takefive classes.
And let's say you then this isgetting into the nitty-gritty,
but you know you want to go tonursing, then maybe you're gonna
take two sciences and not Frenchyour last year of high school.
Um, but it's um that can all beexplained in a section called
(09:46):
your additional informationsection.
But if you have space, you wantto make sure you're taking those
four levels of foreign language.
The more selective universitiesare definitely gonna be looking
at that.
And then if your kid does knowwhat they want to do, so for
example, um if they if you know,if you're a California state
resident, you know you're gonnago to the California state
schools.
They have really weirdrequirements.
Like, for example, you have totake, and I want to get this
(10:08):
right, um, you have to take afull year of art or visual or
performing arts, which is notunusual, except that Cal State
schools want to see the same,they want to see the same class
um for that full year, or theywant to see two that are in the
same discipline.
So you can't take like theaterand then ceramics and count that
as your full year of art.
(10:29):
So these are the type ofnitty-gritty stuff you want to
make sure that if your kids havean idea of the system they want
to go to, like the state schoolsystem they're interested in
going to, or what they want tomajor in, like the big ones,
nursing, engineering, business,that you are in tune with what
those potential um requirementsare.
And education.
unknown (10:49):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (10:50):
Definitely.
SPEAKER_01 (10:50):
Teachers, think about this, future teachers.
SPEAKER_00 (10:53):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (10:53):
Okay, so what uh as a parent, how can we help our
how can we help our students umthrough this course selection
process?
Like, I mean, I guess we couldask for transcripts and stuff,
but how do we help the kids stayon track?
SPEAKER_00 (11:09):
Yeah, I think the best way is just encourage kids
to take the risk of takingharder coursework.
And sometimes this is fightingthe system.
Sometimes an English teacherwill say, you know, the kid's
not ready for this.
And if you think your kid isready, it's just helping that
kid learn to self-advocate.
Um I also think that like havingthe question, um asking
(11:31):
questions and helping um kids dothat self-reflection about what
they would potentially want todo.
Um, at Peak, we do we use aplatform called View Science to
do some of that uh careerexploration.
I think something to remind kidsbecause it's really stressful
when you're 17 and people areasking what you want to be when
you grow up, I get stressed outwhen people ask me that.
(11:51):
Um, so one thing I try to remindkids is, and I'm not gonna get
the percent right, but theamount of people who actually
work within the field that theymajored in is very, very low.
Um, what we really want to, sowe want to be expansive in these
conversations.
Um, but if you do have a kid whowants to go to engineering
school, um, who you know dreamsof being pre-vet, these are
(12:13):
conversations where it's like,well, what is that gonna look
like starting at the high schoollevel?
What is that coursework gonnalook like?
SPEAKER_01 (12:22):
So I know we're gonna talk about this a little
bit later as well, but um one ofthe things that I kind of
connect to how a parent cansupport here as well is um, you
know, I mean, especially forsomeone going into sciences and
then they load up on the scienceclasses and not then able to
take French or or anotherforeign language or whatever, by
(12:43):
supporting the extracurricularactivities that also um kind of
expand on um the the learningrepertoire of the of the
student.
That's another way that parents,and we're gonna talk about
extracurricular.
SPEAKER_00 (12:57):
We can jump right to it.
SPEAKER_01 (12:58):
You wanna let's let's hop hop down there then.
SPEAKER_00 (13:00):
Yeah, so extracurriculars is huge.
Um the real the question thatyou know schools are looking at
is what do you want to, what areyou doing with your time when
you're not doing academics?
And this kind of falls into thenarrative, you know, what is the
student's narrative?
What is their story?
And then this is somethingthat's not always talked about,
but schools are really lookingfor like, do these kids' values
align with the values of ourinstitution?
(13:23):
Um and so if you know what youwant to do, another like great
way to um show that your valuesand your passions align with the
institution is through yourextracurriculars.
Again, this is especially truewith the big ones, right?
Computer science, engineering,these more selective programs.
Um, some of them won't even lookat an application where a kid
(13:44):
has not done an extracurricularthat aligns with that program.
Um, again, this comes back tothey don't want, so let's think
about nursing.
And I have talked to manyadmissions officers about this.
They're not just looking for thekid with the perfect GPA and the
perfect SAT scores who says theydream of being a nurse.
Because what happens when theystep into that nursing setting
(14:04):
for the first time?
And remember, these institutionsdon't want to just accept you,
they're invested in getting youthrough that uh four-year
degree.
And so they need to make surethat you've had experience.
What happens the first time tosee blood, right?
I mean, it sounds so silly, butthey want to see that
experience.
They want to see it if you're anengine going applying to
engineering school as well.
Um, and so that means gettingthose internships, um you know,
(14:27):
doing volunteer work, whateverit may be, to show true
experience in the um, show thatyou've truly been exposed to the
field, not just that youracademics are stellar.
Um, I think the valuesdiscussion is really important,
and that's something you canlook at on school's websites.
But like an example is umVillanova is like a very um
service-oriented university, andthey're really looking for kids
(14:50):
that can demonstrate um both intheir personal narratives, but
also in their extracurriculars,that they're committed to
serving their community.
SPEAKER_01 (14:58):
That's one of the things that um really stood out
to me in the in the webinar wasyou know, that the character and
the contributions to community.
What does this student bring toour school?
How will this student um bothintegrate and um provide
positive um impact on school'scommunity?
(15:19):
Um and the other thing that theyreally drew um underscored was
the um character attributes,which are another way that you
can really um emphasize those oruh display evidence of are
through the extracurricularactivities.
SPEAKER_00 (15:38):
Yeah.
I always tell kids um we shouldthink of extracurriculars as
three buckets.
So the first bucket is like softskills.
So those are your like timemanagement skills.
What happens when you're put ina challenging situation?
And you can demonstrate thesethrough sports, through work.
Totally underrated, but having asummer job, and I know that's
hard for a foreign foreignservice kid, but if you go home,
(16:00):
you know, like we we go home tomy in-law's home in Tennessee,
right?
Are my kids working at the localsupermarket and not just hanging
out at the pool?
Um, you can, there's lots ofdifferent ways you can
demonstrate those soft skills,but that's a really important
part of the extracurricular umnarrative.
The second thing is intellectualcuriosity, and that's like what
(16:21):
does your kid love to do?
And this is can be as like kookyas, you know, I don't know,
ancient Egypt, right?
But like what is this kidpassionate about or creative
writing, poetry, what reallylike gets them excited?
And then the final one is givingback, and that is um depending
on the school, that's ofdiffering levels of importance,
(16:43):
but most schools really want tosee some service um oriented
extracurricular on theirapplication.
It's also really good for kidsto give back to their
communities, right?
SPEAKER_01 (16:52):
It's especially um those of us that are overseas,
um with you know, an embassy orwhatever, and your kid is going
to an international school.
Many schools do require thatthat um the CAS, the community
service, um, which I love andappreciate and I think my boys
do every year, every semester,rather than just the one
(17:15):
semester um required, because Ithink it's a really valuable
life lesson for for kids toreally just own giving back.
We're all very, very fortunate.
And so helping those that aresomewhat or very much less so is
is important.
Um anything else onextracurriculars?
(17:38):
Should we talk about testing?
SPEAKER_00 (17:40):
Elephant in the corner.
Okay, so testing policies reallyvary.
Um COVID has changed a lot.
Um there's school, there's fourdifferent main buckets of
testing requirements schoolsfall into.
So first is test optional, whichmeans a kid can or cannot submit
(18:01):
their test scores, they candecide.
Um, test blind, meaning even ifa kid submits their scores,
they're not um they're not goingto look at them.
Test required are the schoolsthat are now requiring test
scores, and then testconditional.
So basically, um, like anexample is the North Carolina
state system.
If you have um less than a 2.8there of a weighted GPA, you're
(18:24):
required to submit a test score.
If you have higher, you don'tneed to.
Um, the strategizing behind testscores is challenging.
Um, I always tell students theif you when you have your test
score, send an email to youradmissions officer and just ask,
would you submit this testscore?
Um, it doesn't hurt to ask, andit schools have different
(18:45):
institutional priorities thatwe're not always aware of.
So there may be a test optionalschool that even though their
median test score is a 1400 andyou have a 1350, they want you
to submit that 1350 for reasonspotentially that aren't totally
open to us, and like prioritiesthey have as an institution.
Um, when we look at test scores,it can be really overwhelming
(19:06):
right now because every year themedian SAT scores are
increasing.
But what we're not seeing whenwe look at this data is that
less and less students aresubmitting their scores.
So only kids that are submittingwho do extremely well are
submitting the scores.
Um, and that can also beextremely discouraging for kids.
And I think our role as parentsis just to help kids um do their
(19:27):
research, reach out toadmissions officers, and then
just be really strategic aboutwhere you send your test scores.
Um and then also strategicabout, and this is something
I've noticed the Foreign Servicefamilies are less aware of, but
strategic about taking the orwhich test you're going to take
and then how much time you'regoing to spend studying.
(19:48):
Um, you can take so all schoolsexcept both the SAT and ACT.
Um, if you're from the South,you tend to be more familiar
with the ACT, ACT exam.
It seems like the schools I workwith abroad um tend to offer the
SAT test.
And kids do perform.
There are a group of kids thatperform better on the ACTs, and
(20:09):
some significantly better.
Um, if your kid tends to be ableto process and read a little
more quickly, the ACT is a morestraightforward test, but it's a
faster test.
The SAT, so from my perspective,the SAT questions can be a
little, I don't want to saytrickier, but a little more
complicated.
Um, and the ACT tends to favorkids who are very quick test
(20:33):
takers.
Um and so having thoseconversations with your kids,
like is this something we'regonna invest our time and
potentially money in studyingfor the SATs or studying for the
ACTs is really important forfamilies to do.
SPEAKER_01 (20:48):
Especially at the same time as the workload in
courses in your regular highschool classes are is ramping
up.
Totally.
It it can be because I think Ithink a lot of what is being
tested isn't necessarily thematerial that is being offered
in the grades at which you aresupposed to be taking the tests.
(21:08):
And so I think it's and fulldisclosure, um, neither of my
now college um students well,they did take the SAT because I
made them, um, but they theydidn't submit their scores.
And I also just our kids went toum IB schools, so I made them
(21:30):
take the the tests because theydon't know what a multiple
choice exam is, and that issomething that um is not
generally a form of testing atall, even approached in an IB
school, which I love.
But then when um they go touniversity and all of their
freshmen and sophomore classesgive exams that are multiple
(21:53):
choice, then they're at adisadvantage.
So that's why I made them.
I was not the favorite mom atthe moment.
SPEAKER_00 (22:01):
I think that the I testing is extremely
nerve-wracking for kids.
And um I love the word strategicaround it because the every kid
and every university should havea different strategy.
And we instead of framing it aslike, this is a measure of your
intelligence, which no parentwould ever do, but which is how
(22:22):
a kid feels.
Rather, it's like, let's justsee how you do and see what our
plan is.
Um, whether that means, youknow, you're gonna take the ACT
and I'm gonna set it up in thelibrary so you can study on
weekends, or it's like, you knowwhat, for the schools you want
to apply to, this isn't this isnot on our worry list.
Let's focus on um like our ID orAP coursework.
SPEAKER_01 (22:43):
So actually, um just an admin question.
Now SAT is available in personand online.
SPEAKER_00 (22:51):
But you have to be at a testing center.
SPEAKER_01 (22:53):
Online?
I thought it was like you coulddo it in your home.
But this is a detail that I'mnot 100% sure of.
But I don't know that ACT isoffered more than once a year
overseas.
But that is not that is notsomething I know for sure.
Do you know this?
SPEAKER_00 (23:13):
So you I'm pretty sure in Saudi Arabia it's
offered.
Oh, I'm sure here yeah.
And I know that when I was inKosovo, I had kids driving
across international borders totake the ACT.
So I don't want to speak.
I I I think this is where likeparents can really support um
their kids because it mayinvolve going to another
(23:36):
country.
SPEAKER_01 (23:37):
Yeah, and this is you you definitely have to do
your homework and front aheadfor these for these exams.
Um, and the other thing that isworth note uh noting is that
these um exams and these scoresare not necessarily at all
relevant for other countries'schools.
SPEAKER_00 (23:53):
100%.
This is a US standard.
Yeah, we probably should havesaid this from the get-go.
I think um later on I'll do uhsomething on European and
Canadian schools, but for thisis mostly from the perspective
of applying to American schools.
In fact, like if you're applyingto the UK, we're looking at a
very the schools are looking ata very different set um of
(24:15):
criteria.
SPEAKER_01 (24:18):
So let's move on to um another thing that they are
looking at um with the collegeapplication, and that is the um
letter, letters ofrecommendation.
SPEAKER_00 (24:30):
Yeah.
So letters of recommendation,um, particularly smaller schools
are going to look very closelyat letters of recommendation.
Um, wearing my teacher hatrather than my college counselor
hat.
Um I was asked each year formore than 20 recommendations.
And even when I waswell-intentioned, they started
to blur together.
(24:51):
And so something I really,really recommend all my students
do is that they identify acouple characteristics that they
would like highlighted in theirletter of recommendation, and
then they identify times whenthey demonstrated that
characteristic.
And so lots of schools have kidsdo brag sheets, lots of schools
ask kids to send resumes.
The problem with that is ateacher, if a teacher
(25:12):
regurgitates the resume, theresume is already probably in
the application and it's notreally adding anything.
And I have been guilty of this.
What you really want is to addsomething, what as a what
students want is that theirteacher adds specifics that
won't be elsewhere in theapplication.
And so, for example, if your kidwants to highlight maybe such a
(25:36):
math, but like theirproblem-solving resilience,
right?
Their ability to persevere whenthere are challenging math
problems.
So, one way they could, if thatthey could say, this is what I
want highlighted in my lettersof rec.
And I recommend two or threecharacteristics.
I like you to um highlight how Ipersevered through challenging
problems and then give aspecific example.
(25:57):
Like, remember when I failed myunit two, unit four probability
test, and I came and did testcorrections every single day.
And even though you wouldn't letme retake it, I was determined
to understand the problems.
Um maybe it's their ability towork in groups.
So, you know, no matter, youknow, in a class with lots of
different abilities, whoever youplace me with, I was willing to
(26:20):
work with them.
So very, very specific examplesof the character traits you want
demonstrated.
Um always write a thank younote.
It's a ton of work to writeletters of rec.
And I think it goes a reallylong way.
The writing a thank you notedoesn't benefit your student,
but it benefits all the studentsthat come after and ask for a
letter of wreck.
(26:40):
Um, one thing is that manycolleges accept outside letters
of recommendation.
And um, when I take on kids lastminute, this is one of those um
big surprises because a lot ofhigh schools don't talk about
this.
Um, but you can even get aletter of rec from a neighbor,
um, you can get a letter of recfrom a coach, uh, a religious
(27:01):
group leader.
And these can really, really umgive colleges a totally
different um or just totallydifferent insights into who your
kids are.
And I think they make forreally, really strong
recommendations.
But you want to be asking forthose in advance and so start
talking with your kids, like whocould be an interesting
recommender that's notnecessarily your teacher that
could share something about you.
(27:23):
Um and then you want to makesure you're showing um the
institution different sides ofum the student is showing an
institution different sides oftheir personality.
So if you're passionate aboutforeign languages, like having
the French and the Italianteacher write your letter of
rec, I think those will bepretty redundant.
So I really encourage kids totry to do one rec from the
(27:44):
humanities, one from the mathand science.
Um, trying to focus on 11th and12th grade, what you were like
as a 14 or 15-year-old ninthgrader doesn't tell colleges a
whole lot.
And then also those higher levelcourses, I find that those often
have the most interestingletters of rec because it does
show like persevering through achallenge.
(28:06):
Um asking for letters of recearly is really important.
Some schools limit how manyteachers are allowed to write,
and some teachers just say noonce they get to a certain
number.
Um, and the quality definitelydiminishes the more as teachers
write more and more letters ofrec over the course of the year.
So this is something that Iwould definitely be having that
conversation for your kids in11th grade, having that
(28:26):
conversation now and starting toapproach teachers in April of
2026 for the 11th graders.
SPEAKER_01 (28:33):
Yeah, I mean, I think it's just a kind gesture
to the workload that teachersalready have to be able to help
them manage the um the the rightthe letter writing load as well.
Um and I also, according to umthe webinar that um I I heard,
there was um there's a lot ofemphasis placed on the letter of
(28:56):
recommendation from thecounselor as well.
And so and and and Hannah and Iwere talking and she said
rightly so, like this this woulddefinitely benefit the kids that
are at a smaller school becausethey will um get to know their
counselor in a much morepersonal way.
But also, um, you know, maybeencouraging your kids to
(29:18):
interact in a positive andeffective manner with a
counselor would be um a goodrecommendation because then that
recommendation letter from thatcounselor will be more
meaningful and actually includesome of the character attributes
that um schools are looking for.
Any last thoughts on letters ofrecommendation?
SPEAKER_00 (29:41):
No, other than that it's something easy to like save
to the end because it's a painand uh and also you don't have
to do much besides ask, but justI think it's a time to be really
thoughtful and it it especiallywith the smaller schools, some
of the larger schools they'reeither they're they've some
don't even require letters orbracket and they have four
minutes to.
Through the application, theymay not be looking so closely,
(30:02):
but we we know these smallerinstitutions really, really um
take into consideration theletters of recommendation.
SPEAKER_01 (30:10):
Okay, now um the number one tool in my mind for
how your kid is gonna helpreally stand out, and that is
the essay.
SPEAKER_00 (30:18):
Yes, okay, so this is for the American system.
The UK systems essay is atotally different um, yes, it's
very different.
Um, for the American system.
So the first thing I and throughP College Consulting, we have a
long, we have a workshop that wedo with kids to help them
(30:38):
develop their essay topic.
But if you're the parent workingwith your kids, I the first
question I would ask is what doyou want the school to know
about you that isn't already inyour application?
Um, and so if it's, you know,being an all-American athlete,
like the school knows that,right?
It's all over your application.
It's in the award section, it'sin the extracurricular, it's in
the activity section, and it'sprobably in your letters of rec.
(31:00):
Um, but what's something that'snot in there?
Um, I think a lot of kids getoverwhelmed because they think
like, my life is normal, nothingcrazy's happened, I don't have a
tragic story.
Every admissions officer I talkto say the most powerful essays
are not the ones that tell acrazy story, because a crazy or
a tragic story doesn't reallygive a lot of insights into the
(31:26):
actual applicant.
Um, and so you want to just keepremembering, and this is so
unnatural for kids to write thisway, but we are you're right,
the student is writing aboutthemselves.
And so that is just a veryunnatural way of writing and
very hard, particularly forteenagers, for that level of
reflection.
(31:47):
Um, I always say to kids, like,this is a style of writing that
you're never asked to do in highschool and you're never asked to
do in college.
And so the fact that they do itfor 650 words to determine
whether they get into universityis a little bit strange.
Um, and so if it feels weird andfunky and unnatural, it is.
It is, yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (32:08):
But also like it's it it's the the students'
opportunity to really justshine.
And it's not about bragging,it's not about um I mean when I
think about the the essays thatmy my boys wrote, neither one
were about like greataccomplishments or um anything
(32:31):
like well they were memorable,but it it's just the things that
kind of glued them together andhelped to feed their
personalities.
And it was just, you know, whenuh reading the essays I knew
different character aspects ofthese kids.
I mean, I knew them alreadybecause they were my own boys,
but nonetheless, like in if Iwere a stranger, a perfect
(32:53):
stranger reading that essay, Iwould be like, oh, okay, that's
really interesting about thisboy, and blah, blah, blah, blah,
blah.
Um, and I think it's, I mean,650 words, you can do a lot with
that.
SPEAKER_00 (33:04):
Yeah.
I think a lot of um atinternational schools, a lot of
guidance counselors say, don'tjust write about changing school
every two years, or don't justwrite about going to high school
abroad.
And I do think that that is goodadvice, but that can sometimes
scare kids.
It's not that you shouldn'twrite about that, it's that pick
a very, very, very specificthing.
(33:24):
Um, you know, I just was workingwith a girl who her intro to her
essay was that she had aPhilippine, you know, she was um
American, but had a Filipinoaccent until she went to
kindergarten, right?
Um, pick something very specificabout the experience that is
unique to you, that if you're atyour international school, the
(33:47):
person to your right and theperson to your left is not going
to have that same experience.
And that could be an a growthexperience.
Um, I mean, that's the best, isif you can show growth, but um
you know, a time when you'vebeen disappointed, um, having
the kid think about somethingthat's very, very personal.
(34:07):
And then um the biggest, thehardest things for kids to do
when they write their essay isthey want to tell a story.
And that's we want to show thestory.
We want to write a personalnarrative that is demonstrating
a character trait, not tellingthe story.
(34:29):
And so you want to actually,when they're the actual writing
style, and this is a little bithard to explain without actual
examples, but you want to putthem in the center of their
writing.
Um rather than telling aboutwhat happened, they can do this
by um using imagery or by usingnarrative, but really pushing
(34:51):
your kids just over and over andover.
How can you show that youpersevered, not say, I
persevered when my parents mademe go to four high schools in
four years?
That is very, very challengingto do.
SPEAKER_01 (35:07):
It's also not just one essay that they get to
write.
It's multiple opportunities toshare their voice.
Um, so what can you tell usabout all of these writing
opportunities kids are gonnahave?
SPEAKER_00 (35:25):
So the supplementals, by the time,
especially kids who are applyingto a lot of schools, get the
supplementals, they're like, ohno, they're always like, who's
gonna actually read this?
Time like, no, no, no.
Like if a school is asking for asupplemental, it's because they
are using it to help them make adecision.
They don't want to read 10,000.
Why are you majoring in thisessay?
And so actually, for manyschools, the supplementals may
(35:48):
be even more important than thepersonal narrative.
So now is not the time to slowdown, right?
When you get to thesupplementals, focus.
So the three most commonsupplementals, why this major,
why this college?
And then there's kind ofdifferent variations on the
diversity questions, like whatum, what about your experiences
will contribute to the diversityof our campus, um, or you know,
(36:12):
talk about a time you'veinteracted with someone who's
different than you.
Um unfortunately, these types ofquestions are less common right
now, but they're still, I wouldsay these are the diversity
questions less common.
Um, but all three of these arethe three most common.
And the good news you can tellyour kids is once you've written
the why this major essay, youcan use it for more than one
(36:33):
university if you tweak it alittle bit.
Um tweak it a little bit.
But then there's also some wackyum supplementals like USC asking
about your favorite snack orwhat TV show you'll binge next,
or Barnard that asks you towrite a longer essay say about a
conversation with a woman whoseviews were different than your
(36:53):
own.
Um, and so for some of theseschools, it's a it's a real
commitment um to complete thosesupplementals.
And again, we want to thinkabout the same, um, think about
supplementals the same way.
We think about personalnarrative.
This is a time to show somethingabout yourself that may not be
in other parts of theapplication.
Um, this is a time to show, nottell.
(37:15):
I'm really brave.
No, show me how you are brave.
Um, and then lastly, it's also atime to show that you've done
your research.
Um, with the common app, kidscan just apply to a lot of
different schools.
And the supplementals are a timewhen they really schools really
want to see.
It's the only time you'rewriting directly to that school
because a personal narrative isgoing to every school.
(37:36):
You're writing directly to thatschool.
You've read that vision andmission of the school, and
you're showing how you align umwith that uh with the values of
the school.
And so it's a really valuabletime um to demonstrate that
you're really serious aboutattending that institution.
SPEAKER_01 (37:55):
And a lot of um universities will publish their
um possible supplemental essaytopics or questions, um, like
usually spring, right?
SPEAKER_00 (38:06):
Like later in the spring.
They're formalized when thecommon app comes out.
But yeah, and you can see past,you can get a good sense online
to see past supplementals.
SPEAKER_01 (38:15):
That helps your kid um maybe start preparing their
thoughts, kind of organizingwhat they might want to write
about as they start thinkingabout where they want to apply.
SPEAKER_00 (38:26):
Yeah.
Okay, so the last section is theadditional information section,
um, which is an additionalsection where you can basically
write about anything you missedin the applications.
Kids tend to skip over um thissection.
If you're working with me,nothing is optional.
And so you will be writingsomething there.
Um, for foreign service kids,this is extremely important.
You want to talk about exactlythe moves that you've made if
(38:49):
they're unusual grading systems,if you have unusual coursework,
right?
I attended school in thiscountry.
They required I take this class,thus, I couldn't continue with
my German studies or um, youknow, switching between
different IV programs, differentcoursework may be offered.
Um, you want to talk aboutextenuating situations with the
family, right?
(39:09):
Dad was on a tour in Iraq, andso I was, you know, in Virginia
with my parents and or you know,with one uh parent, and these
were the stresses that were onmy family.
All of that, it's a really goodtime to explain um situations.
You can explain a bad grade,right?
You can explain uh moving, um,you know, moving between
(39:36):
education systems and strugglesyou may have had with math
that's taught differently.
Um, I think it's a really,really crucial uh section for
every kid to fill out and toexplain anything that they
haven't been able to explain.
That's really important becausethat blank can probably just
feel like a free pass,otherwise.
And I don't know, I assume I'llget my contact info, but I have
(39:59):
like 10 questions I ask kidsthat I can send to anybody who's
interested.
That um it's just 10 questionsthat ever I've never I've never
had a kid who didn't have atleast one thing on there, like,
oh, that's a good point.
I forgot about health classfreshman year and that grade,
right?
You just want to help it helpsbrainstorm things that they um
they may want to explain ontheir app application.
SPEAKER_01 (40:21):
We will definitely include her her contact info.
SPEAKER_00 (40:24):
I think, like, sorry, I'm just thinking of all
these different additionalinformation things, but like
extracurriculars can be reallyhard when you're international.
Families only have one car, youcan't be going across town for
sporting practices in the sameway.
You can't get internships in thesame way, you can't be employed
on the local market in SaudiArabia, right?
And so we're located in SaudiArabia.
So I think that that's anotherum another thing that's really
(40:46):
important to explain anadditional information section.
SPEAKER_01 (40:49):
Well, that's a really good point.
And the other thing that um caninhibit um kids really being
mobile, especially overseas, isa lot of foreign service kids
don't have driver's licenses.
And so they can't get to andfrom whatever it is.
I mean, there's there's oftenother um transportation options,
but just it would definitelyimpact um how they can um
(41:13):
contribute to insert activityhere.
So yeah, okay, let's talk aboutum, I think another very
challenging part for um theapplication process, and
especially for foreign servicekids who are overseas, yeah,
that's demonstrated interest.
SPEAKER_00 (41:32):
Yeah, so students should demonstrate interest at
all the schools they'reinterested in applying to.
And this has been a change.
Um, but schools are reallyinterested in something called
yield.
They want to make sure that akid that they accept is actually
gonna attend.
And one way they've um that theytry to predict whether a kid
will actually attend theuniversity is whether that
(41:55):
school is or that student hasdemonstrated interest in
attending.
So I always tell kids, even if aschool doesn't says, because
they have to self-report ifthey're um, or most schools
self-report if they takedemonstrated interest as a
consideration in the applicationprocess.
But even if a school says theydon't, I do think it makes a
difference on the margin.
So the best way to demonstrateinterest is to tour the school,
(42:19):
go to an info session, all ofthat.
But even if you're in Boston,Massachusetts, there are
basically no families that cango afford to or have the time to
send their kids on eight to 12different college tours across
the United States.
Just not realistic, and schoolsknow that.
Um, and so there's a lot ofother ways you can demonstrate
interest, particularlypost-COVID.
There's been a lot more virtualoptions.
(42:40):
Um, I do a lot of virtual toursin my free time.
They're super high qualitypost-COVID.
Um, there's virtual tours,there's virtual info sessions.
Syracuse has CUs Connections, 15minutes with an admissions
officer.
Um, you can follow them onsocial media.
You should sign up for mailinglists.
Many of them track whether youopen emails.
(43:01):
And so one of my best practicesfor kids is have them do a
college email account and thenjust open all the emails and
delete them.
Um, if you're lucky and theyyou're um the school your kids
at hosts college fairs, thoseare excellent to attend.
Introduce yourself to theadmissions rep, send them an
email after saying how great itwas to meet them.
(43:22):
This is all really important.
Um, and then the last thing Itell all my kids to do who are
living internationally is youshould reach out directly to the
rep.
Um, the rep that's listed onlinewill be the person reading your
application and just explain,like in our case, we're in Saudi
Arabia.
I won't get to UMass Boston.
I mean, you know, I won't begoing to the United States until
I go for college.
(43:42):
And so I've done the virtualfair, I've done this, I mean,
I've done the virtual tour, I'vedone the info session, and then
ask a really specific questionthat isn't easily available
online.
Don't ask, do you offer biology101?
Um, but a really specificquestion that's pertinent to you
to show that university that youare actually um serious about
(44:04):
attending and seriouslyinterested.
And just like from an ethicsperspective, at this point it is
so easy for kids to apply totons and tons of colleges.
And I work, I work with my kidsa lot on thinking about you
know, is this a college that Iact that the students actually
interested in attending?
And if you are interested inattending, then demonstrating
(44:27):
interest should come verynaturally.
Because if you're interested inattending, you're gonna have
questions.
You're gonna want to do thevirtual tour.
And if you're not, let's takethat off the list because you
know, we're all part of theproblem of these really low
acceptance rates.
And so um I think it's really,really important that we
encourage our kids to do theirresearch.
And again, this is like thisprocess can be really fun for
(44:49):
kids if if framed in a way thatis empowering and exciting for
them rather than just a sourceof stress.
SPEAKER_01 (44:56):
So actually, on that, um you were talking, you
just briefly mentioned theacceptance rates, which um I
think is like spurring thenumber of applications that
people submit.
So the increased applicationssubmitted is is basically like,
oh, well, but they're notaccepting any anybody.
But again, according to thiswebinar I saw, um acceptance
(45:20):
rates for state universities is73%.
That's that's not low.
So I think absolutely the moreprivate and more prestigious
universities are going to have amuch, much, much more selective
um admissions process, butthey're also getting a lot more
applications.
(45:40):
And so I feel like um it's notnecessarily necessary to um
submit, you know, 20 or 30applications because each, well,
I mean, financially speaking,that's a lot of essays and a lot
of money for application fees,but also um depending on where
(46:05):
those applications are landing,the acceptance rates aren't
necessarily that low.
So I think this is one of thoseum what is the word I'm looking
for?
The the popular myths that uhjust keeps growing and growing.
SPEAKER_00 (46:22):
I think what's um there's a very, very, very small
percent of the 4,000 schoolsthat are highly selective.
SPEAKER_01 (46:33):
Yes.
SPEAKER_00 (46:33):
Um, and and most schools are not.
And so um again, yes, that is athat is a myth.
Um and I think we'll we will atour the next podcast when we
talk about what students shouldlook for in schools, the dance
of like, you know, colleges,it's kind of like dating, right?
Like the colleges are lookingfor schools for kids that would
(46:54):
be a good fit, and kids arelooking for schools that would
be a good fit.
Um, but we'll talk a little bitmore about like the rankings and
selectivity and all of that,because some of that there is
some artificial, just because auh a kid a school becomes quote
unquote more selective, um, liketheir their admissions rates
(47:15):
drop dramatically, the qualityof candidates may not have
changed at all.
Um, the quality of kids who getaccepted may not have changed at
all.
Um, and so there's it's kind ofit's it's tough to read behind
the data.
Um and there's lots of nuance toit.
Um, but a low acceptance rate,first of all, doesn't
(47:36):
necessarily say anything aboutthe quality of the academics,
but it also doesn't necessarilymean that the uh the SAT score,
higher SAT scores and higherGPAs are needed to be admitted.
SPEAKER_01 (47:49):
All valid, valid points.
Um, so this time we talked aboutum what it is uh colleges are
looking for in their applicantin their applicants and how
parents can support their theirkiddos through this process.
Um we talked about rigor andgrades, we talked about um
(48:11):
extracurricular activities, wetalked about the beast that is
standardized testing, we talkedabout letters of recommendation,
essays, and demonstratedinterests.
Um, so tune in for our nextpodcast where we talk a little a
bit more, we look a little a bitmore from the flip side on what
(48:31):
um kids should be looking for,could be looking for in schools,
and how parents can supportthem.
Any last thoughts, Hannah?
SPEAKER_00 (48:39):
Yeah, I think that so I work with parents, families
pay me to work with kids throughtheir um college application
process.
Um, but I do have resources thatI can share with parents if they
if you have specific questions,for example, like coming up with
an essay topic or um even asthings as like, what questions
(49:00):
can I ask that show that I'minterested, but that aren't
dumb, right?
Like I have a long list ofthose.
So if there's a you shouldn'tuse the word dumb, but aren't
silly questions.
Um, so if there's any way, we'rein this together in this foreign
service family world.
So if there's any ways I can behelpful um with specific
questions about specificuniversities or on the
(49:21):
application process, how's mycontact show?
SPEAKER_01 (49:25):
We're we'll um link um Hannah's um contact info in
the show notes, and so you'll beable to find um an easy way to
get in touch with her there.
And uh we look forward to ournext recording soon, and we'll
share it here.
Thank you so much for listening.
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