October 8, 2021 • 35 mins
The news lately has been filled with headlines around housing values and housing affordability. In this episode of Heart and Hustle, we talk with three housing experts in who really tackle the question- Is housing affordable in Hamilton County, Oh?
Hamilton County Community Development's Interim Director Emily Carnahan, Liz Blum with the Community Building Institute at Xavier University, and Kristen Baker with Local Initiatives Support Corporation (LISC) get to the heart of the conversation on whether our neighbors can afford to stay in the communities where they live.
Join us in Part 1 of a 2 part conversation!
To learn more about Hamilton County, Ohio, our services and job openings, visit hamiltoncountyohio.gov.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:09):
Hello and welcome to heartenhustle in Hamilton County, a
podcast about the people placesand policies that form Hamilton
County government. I'm yourhost, Jeff Alito. I'm county
administrator with HamiltonCounty, and with me, as always
is our communications managerBridget Doherty. Hello,
everybody. And this is anepisode that I've been really
(00:29):
excited about for a long time.
Today we're going to talk aboutaffordable housing, Hamilton
County. in the very near future,we'll be receiving a report on
the findings of five housingaction plans. in the community.
There's a pilot program that weran out in Addison, Cheviot Deer
Park, Norwood and Silverton,those are the first
jurisdictions to participate.
(00:51):
But in addition to that, thenews has just been filled with
stories about housing prices,property values, you can't open
a national publication withoutseeing something about
affordable housing. It's a hugeissue nationally. And we are
really fortunate, Bridget tohave with us today, three
experts in this field here inHamilton County, we have Kristen
(01:13):
Baker with the local initiativesupport coalition or Liske, as
we know it, we have Liz Blumwith the community building
Institute. And we have EmilyCarnahan, who is the interim
director of our own HamiltonCounty Community Development. So
welcome to heart and hustle andHamilton County.
Thanks for having usknow, glad you all could be
here. And you know, we weretalking about this, I just want
(01:35):
to, to our listeners, make surethat people understand that this
is a huge issue. So we're goingto try to hit this in two parts.
This is part one today, wherewe're going to be setting the
stage for what the problem is,and what the just the lay of the
land about affordable housing.
And then we're going to start innumber issued or an episode
(01:55):
number two, to go into what arewe doing about it here in
Hamilton County. So as we getstarted with that, I would
imagine that there are a lot offolks out out there who are
wondering about theorganizations that we have with
us here today. So Kristen,starting with you, if you'd like
to just introduce yourself to toour listeners and talk a little
bit about what Liske does herein the community.
(02:18):
Thanks, Jeff. Happy to be withyou today. So Liske is a
national community developmentintermediary and financing
organization. So we were foundedto address the affordable
housing challenges that exist inour country over 40 years ago by
the Ford Foundation and othermajor philanthropic investors
who said, you know, we know weneed to provide different kinds
(02:41):
of resources to support quality,affordable housing, and make
sure that everyone has a placeto live that is safe and healthy
and, and appropriate for theirneeds. So we have been
addressing that throughprimarily through lending and
real estate transactions,supporting community development
organizations, and partners andnonprofit developers who provide
(03:04):
affordable housing options. Butover the years, we've also
realized that, you know, housingis maybe the centerpiece of
community life in many ways. Butthere are lots of other parts of
the community that need to besupported, particularly in
disinvested communities areplaces that have been
historically impacted byredlining or other sort of
policies that really have cutoff parts of the community and,
(03:28):
and kind of concentrated povertyand made things more difficult.
So that's really what we're hereto do is support those community
partners and really be aresource and a connection point
for partners to come togetheraround issues like housing,
affordability, and shine a lighton really kind of some of the
things that many of us who mightnot see that everyday in our
(03:48):
communities might not totallyunderstand. So that's really an
important part of our work aswell.
It's great, Kristen, thank you.
And Liske, as we know, has beeninstrumental in some recent
reports that have come out thathave really helped define the
affordable housing situationhere in Hamilton County. We're
gonna get to that a little bitlater. Liz with community
building Institute, Liz,welcome, and no stranger to
(04:08):
Hamilton County, certainly. Soif you could just tell us a
little bit about what thecommunity building Institute
does for Hamilton County.
Absolutely. Glad to be heretoday. Thanks, everybody, for
having us. So the communitybuilding Institute at Xavier
University, it's really a reallygreat place to be able to work.
We are sort of a planning andresearch organization that comes
(04:32):
alongside people like list,we've worked with county staff
on a number of projects. And Ialways say that we're a learning
organization, it's appropriateto be at a university. Because
when the community needs tothink about something a little
bit more deeply, with an assetbased lens, we get to do a lot
of that work. We do a lot oforiginal research. We do a lot
of demographic and marketresearch. And then think about
(04:55):
what does that mean tocommunities and what does that
mean to the kinds of programsand projects that need to move
forward so that communities getwhat they want out of the great
resources that are available. Sothat's a little bit about what
we do.
And I would be remiss if I didnot thank you for all the work
that you've done just recently,helping us with things like our
(05:16):
comprehensive economicdevelopment strategy, etc. So
thanks for your help with that,Liz. And thanks for being here
today.
We learn a lot every time wedelve into something it's really
fun.
Absolutely. And then, always,every one of these sessions we
do typically, we focus on peopledoing work in the county
organization as well. And wehave Emily Carnahan, with us
(05:37):
today, who is the InterimDirector of Community
Development. Emily, welcome, andtalk to us just a little bit
about the role of communitydevelopment and what community
development does for the countyorganization.
Yeah, thanks, Jeff. Glad to behere. So at its most basic
essence, community development,we run the county's HUD
entitlement grants, which areAcme Development Block Grant,
(06:00):
home and ESG. We also currentlyhave cares act dollars through
CDBG and ESG. And we alsorecently signed an agreement for
our home AARP American rescueplan dollar. So there's really a
lot of opportunity to be hadwith those dollars. Liske, and
CBI have been really greatpartners recently, you know,
(06:20):
helping us program a lot ofthose dollars and try to be as
impactful as possible for thecommunities and spending that
funding.
Excellent. Thanks, Emily. Sothis is a huge topic, right? So
let's just go ahead and get intoit. So we hear about the term
affordable housing a lot and youhear affordable housing, you
hear things like workforcehousing. And I think there's
(06:43):
some confusion out there amongstthe public about what is
affordable housing, and evenunfortunately, maybe it has
gotten to the point where somefolks think, how does this
relate to me? And in today'seconomy, when we've seen these
rising housing prices, we'veseen property values increasing?
And it seems that for this is aconversation that really impacts
(07:05):
everybody. So if you could,let's just start with the
question of what is affordablehousing? And why is it important
in a community?
It's a really importantquestion, Jeff, and something
that the more we talk about it,the more we realize that there
are definitely a lot ofmisconceptions. You know, at its
(07:25):
core, what we're really sayingabout affordability is that no
one should spend more than 30%of their monthly income on their
housing costs. So when you putthat in terms of real dollars,
when you think about, you know,the median income for county
residents is around 40 $45,000,let's say, you know, that's a
pretty, that's not that does notalign, let's say, with the
(07:48):
current prices in the housingmarket, particularly on the for
sale side or rental at marketrate. So that's tough. And I
think that that's really how weneed people to think about this.
It's not about capital, aaffordable housing that you
think of, and really has a lotof unfortunate negative
connotations. I think, for folksthat it's what is, you know,
(08:09):
typically publicly subsidized.
And I think is, it really isunfortunate, because we know
that public housing is acritical part of our community's
infrastructure, it protectsseniors, it provides housing for
people who are unable to workpotentially, because of their,
you know, health status, thingslike that. And for families,
it's important to so we have tomove away from I think, sort of
(08:31):
thinking about it as somebodyelse's problem. And this is
really an issue for all of us toconsider, and is also the
really, the core of it, again,is about how much you're
spending. And so when housingprices have escalated so
precipitously in the last fouror five years in our community,
we are not really keeping pacewith the wages that folks need
(08:53):
to make to be able to do supportthat and I'll also add, you
know, we talk about workforcehousing, that's something you
hear a lot about, that's reallyfocused on people who are
making, you know, which this iskind of wonky conversation,
right? So I try to not talkabout it with too many
percentages or letters orabbreviations, but people who
(09:13):
are at 80% of the area medianincome, so slightly under
$50,000, let's say, folks thatare working in jobs like
customer service, or they'reworking in hospital facilities,
not with a train certificationper se, but playing really
important roles right jobs thatkept us going through COVID.
Frankly, when we were not ableto be out and about in the world
(09:34):
the way we are used to thosefolks also have challenges
finding housing. But I also wantto point out that people who
make less than that are alsoworking so workforce housing
really I think is somethingthat's for everyone right when
we think about it, but when wetalk about it in our in the
vernacular, we usually mean it'sfor people that are earning just
under area median income.
(09:56):
Got it. So Liz, when you thinkabout Hamilton County and this
obviously this is a nationalproblem. The the dynamic that
Kristen just laid out, how howare we faring in Hamilton
County, compared to otherjurisdictions, either in Ohio or
just nationally?
It is absolutely a nationalproblem. I think that it's the
(10:18):
conversation around affordablehousing has been interesting in
Hamilton County, because webelieve ourselves to be a very
affordable metropolitan area.
We're not Boston, we're not SanFrancisco, we're not, you know,
nobody has to pay $4,000 a monthfor an apartment. And so I think
for a long time, it was hard forpeople locally to think about
the fact that there are peoplein Hamilton County who can't
(10:39):
find apartments or homes thatthey can afford at 30% of their
income. That seemed unusual topeople, because we saw lots of
housing in poor condition. Weknow that we're not Boston. And
so how can this be that reallywas in some ways the motivation
behind the original researchthat we did, it was like, right,
so how do we get down to thedetails and figure out whether
(11:01):
there really is an issue? Ithink the issue in Hamilton
County isn't so much that middleclass and middle income families
can't find affordable housing.
Although I think as market rateson home sales have appreciated,
that's becoming less true. But Ithink it is, for folks who are
in low wage jobs, it's reallyhard to find an apartment, it's
(11:21):
hard to find an apartment forunder $700 a month, which is
what you can afford if you'remaking $15 an hour. That's
decent. And that's the issue forus locally. For us locally. It's
about how do we how do we makesure that there's adequate
housing for people making $15 anhour and less, and four, and
(11:41):
increasingly, as you watch homevalues go up, and you said it at
the beginning of the discussion,home values are going up all
over the county. And so it'sbecoming increasingly harder. I
think, for first time homebuyerswho want to find a house for
less than $200,000. That used tonot be a big deal. It is a big
deal. Now,you know, that really resonates
(12:02):
with me, because, you know,we're seeing, you know, almost
daily in the newspapers, andsometimes in the national press,
Cincinnati and Hamilton Countyis killing it. As far as
affordability with rental, we'restarting to get on these, you
know, top 10 lists, which isreally a point of pride for a
lot of people. So, so thattotally makes sense to me,
what's the housing deficiencythat your groups are seeing in
(12:24):
Hamilton County?
So I think it is a good thing,and a lot of political
jurisdictions are happy whenthey see those appraising
property values. I know that'strue in Cheviot, it's true in
Norwood places that Jeffindicated we've just been
working in. But the downside ofthat is there are people who are
living in those communities whohave been living in those
communities for a long time, whosuddenly are being priced out of
(12:46):
their own communities. Andthat's the challenge. And I
think, you know, everybody has astory about I've got plenty of
20 somethings, and you want themto have affordable housing, you
don't want them, you tell your20 something, don't spend too
much money on rent, it's exactlywhat you're telling them is find
housing that you can afford, andstill have a sustainable budget
(13:07):
in your household. That's reallywhat this is about. And so I
think increasingly, people arehaving a hard time finding
housing in the neighborhoodsthey grew up in and the
communities they grew up, andbecause suddenly, a two bedroom
in Silverton is worth $250,000.
That's not a mortgage, my 20something can afford right now.
Right.
(13:30):
And I would add to that, youknow, we're seeing our
communities changing, right,folks who have historically
perhaps lived inside the city ofCincinnati, closer to the urban
core have been priced out, movedout moved along. And they're
joining communities that are arefurther away from the city
center, and wonderful first, youknow, first suburb
(13:52):
jurisdictions, places wherethere's lots of walkability and
amenities and, you know, moresingle family housing than we
see inside the city ofCincinnati, particularly near
downtown. But we also have to beprepared to support and welcome
and accommodate our newneighbors, right with the kinds
of services and with the kind ofresources that we need to have,
(14:13):
you know, communities mixedincome, mixed density, which,
you know, for people who don't,again, live in the housing
world, what we're saying is wewant single family houses, we
want some apartments, maybe wewant some townhomes, some
condominiums places where alsoour seniors can stay in the
communities where they want tobe right And oftentimes, we
(14:33):
communities are not alwaysexcited about changing some of
the zoning or other other, youknow, enabling tools that let us
create that kind of housingbecause it's just not what we've
seen in lots of parts of thecounty and it's new and it's
unfamiliar. And so we really, Ithink, have a lot of opportunity
to support that kind of housingaround the community and people
(14:53):
like being in you know, in thesecommunities, so how do we help
keep them there and help thembecome part of part of the
community aswell. Right? So Liz and Kristen,
you both just mentioned in thecourse of your conversation,
multiple different communitiesin the county. And for those who
may be listening from outside ofHamilton County, we have 48
political subdivisions inHamilton County, which by all
indications is a relativelylarge number of smaller
(15:18):
communities. And Emily, youmanage the Community Development
Block Grant Program, the house,the home grant program, the
emergency shelter solutionsgrant program, on behalf of
Hamilton County, we're going tobe talking a little bit more
about solutions and things thatwe're doing to help with this
issue in our next episode, buttalk a little bit about what you
(15:41):
are hearing from thesecommunities as you work with
them on grant projects, etc. Howis community development? Or
what is Community Developmenthearing about the affordable
housing situation in the courseof your work?
Yeah, it's it definitely comesup pretty frequently, especially
as we talked communities aboutthese housing plans. I think
(16:03):
that, you know, like youmentioned, we have a lot of what
we have very many smallerjurisdictions. And, frankly,
something that we see quiteoften is that there's just a
capacity issue. And that's whythese housing action plans have
been really helpful, at least sofar, and that they kind of do
some of that background legwork.
You know, like, here's the databehind, you know, what is
(16:26):
actually happening in yourcommunity, I think we've found
that Liske and CBI have foundthrough the course of their
research and interviews that thecommunity's look a little bit
different than the people inthem think they do the
perception. So, you know, givingthe, the smaller jurisdictions
sort of the data and the tools,recommendations, you know, and
(16:49):
then a big component of this is,you know, how can the county
help with some of these things.
So I think just trying to buildsome capacity, and actually
being able to implement some,some different projects and
programs to encourage, whetherthat's direct affordable
housing, or, you know, buildinginfrastructure to support
(17:10):
additional housing. I don't havelisten as a Christian Anything
to add on that. But that's,that's, that's really where we
come from and comprehend commutedevelopment.
I just want to add, one of thethings that I think was really
surprising to to even to us whoare fairly close to this issue
is the way the market ischanging. So in a lot of our
(17:32):
communities, we're seeing a bigincrease of investment
purchasing of single familyhomes, in particular by private
companies buy real estateinvestment trust, or wreaths, as
we call them, which ratespurchase properties in
communities where there'sopportunity for them to make
money. And so then they rentthese properties back out,
(17:52):
right, not, that's not all ofthese things are terrible, but
many of them often are out oftown, they're not particularly
close to the properties. And youknow, the other challenge in the
county is that much of ourhousing stock is aging inside
the city of Cincinnati, thehousing stock is different
because it was built pre WorldWar Two. And so a lot of
historic which has its ownchallenges, of course, but the
(18:15):
quality is different things thatwere built post World War Two
weren't built to last 100 years,right they were built to meet a
need of folks returning backfrom the war so we we had a was
different and that's what we seein a lot of our first ring
communities as well. So theyrequire some maintenance and
investment that these companiessometimes are not going to do
right because they're going tokeep it able to rent and you
(18:40):
know, make their profit, butthey're not doing the
maintenance that then eventuallywhen that does come perhaps
comes out of their hands andgoes back into private ownership
by a homeowner they have a lotmore on their plate. So these
are the kind of trends that Ithink it's really important for
us to understand and what rolethese kinds of investors play in
our housing market. We know thatin one community and Cheviot,
homeownership rate went downlike 10% in the last five to 10
(19:03):
years, because just because ofthese kinds of investors coming
in and purchasing the singlefamily housing stock, so these
are all things we really need tounderstand and then talk more
about how do we respond.
So in just playing off on theChristian, so you mentioned a
decline in one community and weknow that recently we got some
census results that by allaccounts were positive, right,
(19:25):
Hamilton County, grew inpopulation. How do we put that
into the context of housingoptions here locally for us in
Hamilton County.
Hamilton County did grow whichis a very good thing. Cheviot
grew Norwood grew, Addison grew.
All of that is good. I think thequestion I often want to talk to
communities about as far as yournext generation of homebuyer
who's the next generation offolks who are living in your
(19:47):
communities, again, back to thissort of narrative of what
Hamilton County and Cincinnatiare all about, you know,
family's great place to raiseyour family, the fastest growing
kind of household in HamiltonCounty. You are single people,
and lots of the communities thatare trying to figure out what to
do next. Now, there are moremillennials, there are more Gen
(20:08):
Z years. And so the questionbecomes if that's the next
generation of folks in yourcommunities, what kind of
housing do they want? And whatkind of housing do they need?
And how do we make sure thatseniors have the kind of housing
they need? So it's, it's I thinkit's this question about who
lives in your community? Andwhat do we need to do to serve
them well, and to serve them inways that are affordable for
(20:28):
them? So what that means i thinkis, so I'm going to silver to
now ag 47 is a new housingproject, not that new anymore.
It's a multifamily project inSilverton that's pretty new for
them. And it really served aneed, there are now millennials
in that building and, and GenXers, whoever the next youngest
(20:49):
group of people is. So I mean, Ithink it's about communities
thinking about what are thekinds of housing types that
young people are looking for,because young people are going
to be your neighbors, and theyare right now. And so I think
that saying there's moresingles, there's more seniors,
there's more people who wantdifferent kinds of housing means
you got to think aboutmodernizing your housing stock.
(21:11):
And I think that's a reallyimportant part of the
conversation too. And that maybemeans multifamily housing along
your business districts. I mean,I think one of the ways that I
connected the Said's, in thehousing study that we did
recently, is every community inHamilton County wants a healthy
business district, they want acoffee shop, they want to
restaurant, we all wantbreweries, to do that you got to
have people shopping in thoseplaces and being in those
(21:34):
places. And that probably meansmore rooftops on your commercial
corridors. And that's probably agood thing. And the other nice
thing about that is there someobsolete retail spaces, some
obsolete commercial spaces, somechurches and schools that are no
longer occupied, all of thosereal estate projects are
opportunities, there areopportunities to do new kinds of
(21:55):
housing in your communities,without disrupting the single
family, neighborhoods and blocksthat exist.
Christian,I just want to note that the the
population is changing aroundthe country, right? We will we
are moving towards. And I don'tlove this phrase, but it's the
(22:16):
way we talk about it majorityminority, right, we're going to
see more many more bipoc peopleof color, black folks, you know,
Latina acts, all of ourneighbors are going to in the
next 30 years, things are goingto change. And so we also have
to make sure that we areattending to those needs through
housing as well. And that we arebeing communities that are
inclusive and supportive ofneighbors moving in that might
(22:40):
not necessarily look look likethey did 30 years ago, right in
these communities. But these arestill places that are, I think,
leaning in to understanding howthey need to as Liz is saying,
you know, with supporting peoplewho are single, a single, you
know, single folks, a singleHead of Household families,
right, that we make sure thatwe're not just building one
bedroom apartments, right, thatwe're not just building studios,
(23:02):
which is a lot of what we see innew development these days. But
we are thinking about familyunits, different cot, you know,
different generations livingtogether, there's lots of
different opportunities, Ithink, for us to support and be
the kind of community that weknow, we know we're all going to
be at a certain point in time.
And let's get let's get on that,I think be really intentional
(23:25):
now.
And just as we continue to thinkabout the the problem, one of
the the reasons I was so excitedto have all of you here today,
and in particular Liske and CBIwas, I think the the con, the
local conversation on housingreally started to I mean, it was
(23:46):
going on before that, obviouslyyou you all were heavily
involved with it. But the studythat was done just a few years
ago and Kristen, you can correctme maybe it's longer than that
now I can't remember 2017 2017Okay, so we're going on four
years now on the gap inaffordable housing in Hamilton
(24:07):
County, really started toaccelerate the conversation and
you started to hear moreconversation in local
communities, with our friendsover at the city of Cincinnati,
and then Hamilton County aswell. So I didn't want to leave
today's session before we tookthe opportunity to take a step
back. And had you guys talk alittle bit about what did that
study? What was the purpose ofthat study? And what did it wind
(24:27):
up showing was the the housingclimate in Hamilton County.
All talk big picture and thenlet let's dig in on the
specifics because that is herspecialty. So as I think was
talked about a few minutes ago,you know, we know that we as a
region, I think we're reallyparticularly focused after the
recession on repopulating.
Again, the city of Cincinnati inparticular bringing folks back
(24:50):
into the urban core increasingthe taxpayer base we know that
is really important to having ahealthy robust region and the
city is the center of that. SoWe were really focused on market
rate and inside the city ofCincinnati luxury as well as
housing options. And and I thinkbecause we feel that we are a
place that is affordablerelative to other markets that
(25:11):
it takes care of itself, right?
Well, since it is a low cost ofliving community, this region is
affordable. But it's not whenyou actually unpack that in
communities. So theneighborhoods where Liske and
CBI have worked inside the cityof Cincinnati for the last 15
years, we knew that folks werestruggling to find housing in
community, right, that folkscould not find housing that was
(25:33):
meeting their needs. So we saidwe need to quantify this. And so
that's really where CBI spent agood bit of time digging into
the census data, which we'revery excited to have more
opportunity to manipulate thatand update those figures, you
know, once more of the data isreleased, and next year. So we
know it's a little dated, butit's the best we have. So we
have we have to sort of lean inon that. And we also have to
(25:55):
recognize the anecdotally wehear this from folks and
communities too, right. So evenif you don't like the numbers,
we know that our neighbors arestruggling to find housing. So
we found in that report thatthere are of about 40,000
households in Hamilton County asa whole that are in the very
lowest income range in ouragain, going back to the wonky
(26:17):
area median income, but folksthat are making, let's say, less
than $10,000 a year, which canyou imagine making less than
$10,000 a year, I mean, let'slet's really dig in, we need to
have some empathy here andunderstand how difficult that
must be. Those there were 40,000households that could not find
housing, that would allow themto spend that 30% of their
income on housing, they wereseverely cost burdened. So that
(26:40):
means they were paying upwardsof 80%. If you're paying 80% of
your monthly income on yourhousing costs, what do you do
when you get a flat tire or youyour child needs school supplies
or there's a you know, an urgentmedical need that you need to
take care of wheat people areliving on the edge. And that's
what we really came to realizethat we need to help people
understand this issue moredeeply to be able to I think
(27:03):
then figure out how do we get tothose solutions together. But if
we don't really explore that,that folks are doing a lot with
a little and they're reallychallenged to find housing. And
as housing costs increase, theirwages are not increasing, right,
wages are staying flat. And thatdoes not work either. So So I
will veer off slightly just tosay that this is not just a
(27:24):
housing supply issue, right.
This is also a workforce issue.
This is how do we have jobs thatare of a quality that are paying
a wage that allows households tohave some ability to build
wealth and to support theirfamilies in meaningful ways.
So I really love that the countyis having this kind of
conversation, because at acounty level, you know, part of
my job is trying to explain whatthe county does. And we affect
(27:48):
and our partners and so manyaspects of what you just talked
about, you know, workforce, youknow, with with our work on the
web, right now, commissionersare very interested in keeping
this topic front and center anda lot of their priorities. I you
know, either with the generalfund budget or you know,
definitely with the Americanrescue plan dollars that we're
(28:09):
trying to figure out right now.
So I won't get into the gorydetails of the the demographics,
but I will say that the way thatwe approach the question was to
say, who lives in HamiltonCounty? And how much do they
make? And then how many housingunits are in Hamilton County?
(28:30):
And what do they cost eitherowner or renter units? And we
stack those two things uptogether? And we said, Does
everybody in the county, everyperson who lives here have a
place they can find that theycan pay 30% of their income for?
And the answer was no. And wewere surprised by that. And so
that was really the impetus forthis study, it really is just
that simple. It is to say, andso this is really about
(28:54):
providing, I think we used tothink that if everybody had a
job, they would be fine. As longas households had a job, they
would be good to go. And I thinkwhat we're understanding now is
that housing is every bit asimportant as a job, to have a
safe, stable place to live ispart of what helps you be a
contributing citizen. And so thejob is important. And the
(29:16):
housing unit is important. Andall of that to say that I'm back
to my 20 somethings, and theyhate it when I talk about them.
You want how you want yourhousehold to be financially
stable, and a job and a housethat you can afford, I think are
critical elements of that. Sothat's really what this is all
about.
(29:37):
When that gets right into theheart of recognizing that, you
know, all the different subjectswe talked about on this podcast
are that the county and the cityand local governments are
involved in. It's not just abouthousing programs. It's not just
about workforce developmentprograms, about how all these
things fit together, right it ithits as much as our our site
(29:59):
readiness program. I mean thatwe have a we're trying to work
with through different economicdevelopment agencies to bring in
new manufacturers and make surethat we're creating an
environment where there are wellgood paying jobs in Hamilton
County so that people can, asyou, as you said, make a living
at the same time that they areaffording a good place a good
safe place to live and doing allthe other things they need to do
(30:21):
put their kids through school,etc.
I mean, it's about it's aboutmaking sure that residents of
Hamilton County have what theyneed, right. And when you buy,
buy or rent a house, it's notjust the bricks and sticks, it's
your neighbors, it's the stores,you have options to shop out
into the schools that you haveoptions to shop at. It's whether
you're close to a bus line sothat you can get around or
(30:43):
whether you're close to job. SoI mean, when you buy that
address you there's a whole bigthing that comes with that. And
I think that from a publicsector standpoint, the objective
is does everybody who lives herehave what they need. And I think
that understanding the housingpiece of that has become a
really important part of theequation.
Question for you, as we start towrap up here, but it would be
(31:08):
remiss if I did not ask, how hasCOVID impacted this? Is this is
the impact of COVID on thisquestion, is a blip on the
radar, or is this a longsustained impact on the housing
situation?
So COVID has put to say COVIDput a you know, a big roadblock
(31:30):
up in front of this issue is anunderstatement. I think we still
do not know the impact, I thinklong term of how COVID will will
will harm householdsparticularly again, folks that
have our you know, incomeinsecure and are housing
insecure. Because now you know,we had the eviction moratorium
that was in place, we had allsorts of wonderful resources
(31:53):
from the cares act and otherfederal tools at our disposal
that we still need to keepworking on leveraging and
getting those dollars out thedoor to help households. But
with the we know that this wasalso a way that that
particularly unscrupulouslandlords were able to take
advantage of old vulnerablehouseholds. And even with a
(32:15):
moratorium in place, we stillknow folks were being pulled out
of their homes. And that alsoimpacts credit that impacts your
ability to secure housing in thefuture, right like this. It all
feeds in and you know, whatwe've heard from our partners at
Community Action Agency is thathuge percentage of folks that
were coming in for assistance,particularly around rental or,
you know, mortgage support, ifthey were approaching
(32:38):
foreclosure, these are folksthat have never requested
support or required that in thepast. So this is, you know, I
think if people want to, youknow, some sometimes we vilify
poor folks especially right. AndI think that to say that this is
also something that impactedpeople who are not participating
(32:58):
in public support tools in thepast is really important thing
for us to recognize that thereare a lot of folks that are
struggling, it's invisible, wedon't always know it. You don't
see it. As as but I think thatyou, in fact, we heard, you
know, last week or at a meetingthat you know, homelessness
actually went down in the countylast year. But we're going to
(33:20):
start to see an increase infamily homelessness, we're going
to start to see more people thatare really struggling because
the the, the impacts are longlasting, and and we hear a lot
about people going back to work,or not taking jobs going back to
work. We have a lot of vacantjobs right now, especially in
service sector industries. And Ithink that also plays a role in
housing, of course, but it'salso recognizing, again, are
(33:43):
these jobs paying what folksneed? And are we are they
receiving the benefits or thesupports that they need? You
can't hire someone to work 15hours a week, you know, people
really need, you know, we needto hold our employers to the
standard of, of making sure thatour jobs are quality so that
folks can maintain theirhousing. So yes, COVID has been
a disaster, frankly. And I thinkthat we still will feel this for
(34:06):
the next five to 10 years.
So I think, Christine, that's agreat cap to put on this in
terms of just understanding thatthis problem is so incredibly
wide ranging. It impactseverybody in this community from
a corporate CEO who's looking tomake sure that he's got the
workforce he needs, in thecommunity, to families, to
(34:26):
single parents to people who arestruggling with with
homelessness. Everybody in thiscommunity has an interest in
this conversation. And we Ithink did a great job today of
talking about how wide rangingthis issue is, how important it
is. And I'm thrilled because Iget to have the three of you
back next time to talk aboutsome of the things that your
(34:47):
organizations are doing and whatHamilton County is doing to
respond to the challenge. SoKristin, Liz, Emily, thanks so
much for being with us today.
Really enjoyed our time togetherand I want to thank all of you
for listening to Episode 11 ofheart and hustle in Hamilton
County. Just a reminder tosubscribe on Apple podcast,
Spotify and other providers. Youcan also find the podcast on our
(35:10):
website, Hamilton Countyohio.gov on the county
administrator's page. So onbehalf of my co host Bridget
Doherty, I will see you nexttime on heart and hustle in
Hamilton County.
Hello and welcome to heartenhustle in Hamilton County, a
podcast about the people placesand policies that form Hamilton
County government. I'm yourhost, Jeff Alito. I'm county
administrator with HamiltonCounty, and with me, as always
is our communications managerBridget Doherty. Hello,
everybody. And this is anepisode that I've been really
(00:29):
excited about for a long time.
Today we're going to talk aboutaffordable housing, Hamilton
County. in the very near future,we'll be receiving a report on
the findings of five housingaction plans. in the community.
There's a pilot program that weran out in Addison, Cheviot Deer
Park, Norwood and Silverton,those are the first
jurisdictions to participate.
(00:51):
But in addition to that, thenews has just been filled with
stories about housing prices,property values, you can't open
a national publication withoutseeing something about
affordable housing. It's a hugeissue nationally. And we are
really fortunate, Bridget tohave with us today, three
experts in this field here inHamilton County, we have Kristen
(01:13):
Baker with the local initiativesupport coalition or Liske, as
we know it, we have Liz Blumwith the community building
Institute. And we have EmilyCarnahan, who is the interim
director of our own HamiltonCounty Community Development. So
welcome to heart and hustle andHamilton County.
Thanks for having usknow, glad you all could be
here. And you know, we weretalking about this, I just want
(01:35):
to, to our listeners, make surethat people understand that this
is a huge issue. So we're goingto try to hit this in two parts.
This is part one today, wherewe're going to be setting the
stage for what the problem is,and what the just the lay of the
land about affordable housing.
And then we're going to start innumber issued or an episode
(01:55):
number two, to go into what arewe doing about it here in
Hamilton County. So as we getstarted with that, I would
imagine that there are a lot offolks out out there who are
wondering about theorganizations that we have with
us here today. So Kristen,starting with you, if you'd like
to just introduce yourself to toour listeners and talk a little
bit about what Liske does herein the community.
(02:18):
Thanks, Jeff. Happy to be withyou today. So Liske is a
national community developmentintermediary and financing
organization. So we were foundedto address the affordable
housing challenges that exist inour country over 40 years ago by
the Ford Foundation and othermajor philanthropic investors
who said, you know, we know weneed to provide different kinds
(02:41):
of resources to support quality,affordable housing, and make
sure that everyone has a placeto live that is safe and healthy
and, and appropriate for theirneeds. So we have been
addressing that throughprimarily through lending and
real estate transactions,supporting community development
organizations, and partners andnonprofit developers who provide
(03:04):
affordable housing options. Butover the years, we've also
realized that, you know, housingis maybe the centerpiece of
community life in many ways. Butthere are lots of other parts of
the community that need to besupported, particularly in
disinvested communities areplaces that have been
historically impacted byredlining or other sort of
policies that really have cutoff parts of the community and,
(03:28):
and kind of concentrated povertyand made things more difficult.
So that's really what we're hereto do is support those community
partners and really be aresource and a connection point
for partners to come togetheraround issues like housing,
affordability, and shine a lighton really kind of some of the
things that many of us who mightnot see that everyday in our
(03:48):
communities might not totallyunderstand. So that's really an
important part of our work aswell.
It's great, Kristen, thank you.
And Liske, as we know, has beeninstrumental in some recent
reports that have come out thathave really helped define the
affordable housing situationhere in Hamilton County. We're
gonna get to that a little bitlater. Liz with community
building Institute, Liz,welcome, and no stranger to
(04:08):
Hamilton County, certainly. Soif you could just tell us a
little bit about what thecommunity building Institute
does for Hamilton County.
Absolutely. Glad to be heretoday. Thanks, everybody, for
having us. So the communitybuilding Institute at Xavier
University, it's really a reallygreat place to be able to work.
We are sort of a planning andresearch organization that comes
(04:32):
alongside people like list,we've worked with county staff
on a number of projects. And Ialways say that we're a learning
organization, it's appropriateto be at a university. Because
when the community needs tothink about something a little
bit more deeply, with an assetbased lens, we get to do a lot
of that work. We do a lot oforiginal research. We do a lot
of demographic and marketresearch. And then think about
(04:55):
what does that mean tocommunities and what does that
mean to the kinds of programsand projects that need to move
forward so that communities getwhat they want out of the great
resources that are available. Sothat's a little bit about what
we do.
And I would be remiss if I didnot thank you for all the work
that you've done just recently,helping us with things like our
(05:16):
comprehensive economicdevelopment strategy, etc. So
thanks for your help with that,Liz. And thanks for being here
today.
We learn a lot every time wedelve into something it's really
fun.
Absolutely. And then, always,every one of these sessions we
do typically, we focus on peopledoing work in the county
organization as well. And wehave Emily Carnahan, with us
(05:37):
today, who is the InterimDirector of Community
Development. Emily, welcome, andtalk to us just a little bit
about the role of communitydevelopment and what community
development does for the countyorganization.
Yeah, thanks, Jeff. Glad to behere. So at its most basic
essence, community development,we run the county's HUD
entitlement grants, which areAcme Development Block Grant,
(06:00):
home and ESG. We also currentlyhave cares act dollars through
CDBG and ESG. And we alsorecently signed an agreement for
our home AARP American rescueplan dollar. So there's really a
lot of opportunity to be hadwith those dollars. Liske, and
CBI have been really greatpartners recently, you know,
(06:20):
helping us program a lot ofthose dollars and try to be as
impactful as possible for thecommunities and spending that
funding.
Excellent. Thanks, Emily. Sothis is a huge topic, right? So
let's just go ahead and get intoit. So we hear about the term
affordable housing a lot and youhear affordable housing, you
hear things like workforcehousing. And I think there's
(06:43):
some confusion out there amongstthe public about what is
affordable housing, and evenunfortunately, maybe it has
gotten to the point where somefolks think, how does this
relate to me? And in today'seconomy, when we've seen these
rising housing prices, we'veseen property values increasing?
And it seems that for this is aconversation that really impacts
(07:05):
everybody. So if you could,let's just start with the
question of what is affordablehousing? And why is it important
in a community?
It's a really importantquestion, Jeff, and something
that the more we talk about it,the more we realize that there
are definitely a lot ofmisconceptions. You know, at its
(07:25):
core, what we're really sayingabout affordability is that no
one should spend more than 30%of their monthly income on their
housing costs. So when you putthat in terms of real dollars,
when you think about, you know,the median income for county
residents is around 40 $45,000,let's say, you know, that's a
pretty, that's not that does notalign, let's say, with the
(07:48):
current prices in the housingmarket, particularly on the for
sale side or rental at marketrate. So that's tough. And I
think that that's really how weneed people to think about this.
It's not about capital, aaffordable housing that you
think of, and really has a lotof unfortunate negative
connotations. I think, for folksthat it's what is, you know,
(08:09):
typically publicly subsidized.
And I think is, it really isunfortunate, because we know
that public housing is acritical part of our community's
infrastructure, it protectsseniors, it provides housing for
people who are unable to workpotentially, because of their,
you know, health status, thingslike that. And for families,
it's important to so we have tomove away from I think, sort of
(08:31):
thinking about it as somebodyelse's problem. And this is
really an issue for all of us toconsider, and is also the
really, the core of it, again,is about how much you're
spending. And so when housingprices have escalated so
precipitously in the last fouror five years in our community,
we are not really keeping pacewith the wages that folks need
(08:53):
to make to be able to do supportthat and I'll also add, you
know, we talk about workforcehousing, that's something you
hear a lot about, that's reallyfocused on people who are
making, you know, which this iskind of wonky conversation,
right? So I try to not talkabout it with too many
percentages or letters orabbreviations, but people who
(09:13):
are at 80% of the area medianincome, so slightly under
$50,000, let's say, folks thatare working in jobs like
customer service, or they'reworking in hospital facilities,
not with a train certificationper se, but playing really
important roles right jobs thatkept us going through COVID.
Frankly, when we were not ableto be out and about in the world
(09:34):
the way we are used to thosefolks also have challenges
finding housing. But I also wantto point out that people who
make less than that are alsoworking so workforce housing
really I think is somethingthat's for everyone right when
we think about it, but when wetalk about it in our in the
vernacular, we usually mean it'sfor people that are earning just
under area median income.
(09:56):
Got it. So Liz, when you thinkabout Hamilton County and this
obviously this is a nationalproblem. The the dynamic that
Kristen just laid out, how howare we faring in Hamilton
County, compared to otherjurisdictions, either in Ohio or
just nationally?
It is absolutely a nationalproblem. I think that it's the
(10:18):
conversation around affordablehousing has been interesting in
Hamilton County, because webelieve ourselves to be a very
affordable metropolitan area.
We're not Boston, we're not SanFrancisco, we're not, you know,
nobody has to pay $4,000 a monthfor an apartment. And so I think
for a long time, it was hard forpeople locally to think about
the fact that there are peoplein Hamilton County who can't
(10:39):
find apartments or homes thatthey can afford at 30% of their
income. That seemed unusual topeople, because we saw lots of
housing in poor condition. Weknow that we're not Boston. And
so how can this be that reallywas in some ways the motivation
behind the original researchthat we did, it was like, right,
so how do we get down to thedetails and figure out whether
(11:01):
there really is an issue? Ithink the issue in Hamilton
County isn't so much that middleclass and middle income families
can't find affordable housing.
Although I think as market rateson home sales have appreciated,
that's becoming less true. But Ithink it is, for folks who are
in low wage jobs, it's reallyhard to find an apartment, it's
(11:21):
hard to find an apartment forunder $700 a month, which is
what you can afford if you'remaking $15 an hour. That's
decent. And that's the issue forus locally. For us locally. It's
about how do we how do we makesure that there's adequate
housing for people making $15 anhour and less, and four, and
(11:41):
increasingly, as you watch homevalues go up, and you said it at
the beginning of the discussion,home values are going up all
over the county. And so it'sbecoming increasingly harder. I
think, for first time homebuyerswho want to find a house for
less than $200,000. That used tonot be a big deal. It is a big
deal. Now,you know, that really resonates
(12:02):
with me, because, you know,we're seeing, you know, almost
daily in the newspapers, andsometimes in the national press,
Cincinnati and Hamilton Countyis killing it. As far as
affordability with rental, we'restarting to get on these, you
know, top 10 lists, which isreally a point of pride for a
lot of people. So, so thattotally makes sense to me,
what's the housing deficiencythat your groups are seeing in
(12:24):
Hamilton County?
So I think it is a good thing,and a lot of political
jurisdictions are happy whenthey see those appraising
property values. I know that'strue in Cheviot, it's true in
Norwood places that Jeffindicated we've just been
working in. But the downside ofthat is there are people who are
living in those communities whohave been living in those
communities for a long time, whosuddenly are being priced out of
(12:46):
their own communities. Andthat's the challenge. And I
think, you know, everybody has astory about I've got plenty of
20 somethings, and you want themto have affordable housing, you
don't want them, you tell your20 something, don't spend too
much money on rent, it's exactlywhat you're telling them is find
housing that you can afford, andstill have a sustainable budget
(13:07):
in your household. That's reallywhat this is about. And so I
think increasingly, people arehaving a hard time finding
housing in the neighborhoodsthey grew up in and the
communities they grew up, andbecause suddenly, a two bedroom
in Silverton is worth $250,000.
That's not a mortgage, my 20something can afford right now.
Right.
(13:30):
And I would add to that, youknow, we're seeing our
communities changing, right,folks who have historically
perhaps lived inside the city ofCincinnati, closer to the urban
core have been priced out, movedout moved along. And they're
joining communities that are arefurther away from the city
center, and wonderful first, youknow, first suburb
(13:52):
jurisdictions, places wherethere's lots of walkability and
amenities and, you know, moresingle family housing than we
see inside the city ofCincinnati, particularly near
downtown. But we also have to beprepared to support and welcome
and accommodate our newneighbors, right with the kinds
of services and with the kind ofresources that we need to have,
(14:13):
you know, communities mixedincome, mixed density, which,
you know, for people who don't,again, live in the housing
world, what we're saying is wewant single family houses, we
want some apartments, maybe wewant some townhomes, some
condominiums places where alsoour seniors can stay in the
communities where they want tobe right And oftentimes, we
(14:33):
communities are not alwaysexcited about changing some of
the zoning or other other, youknow, enabling tools that let us
create that kind of housingbecause it's just not what we've
seen in lots of parts of thecounty and it's new and it's
unfamiliar. And so we really, Ithink, have a lot of opportunity
to support that kind of housingaround the community and people
(14:53):
like being in you know, in thesecommunities, so how do we help
keep them there and help thembecome part of part of the
community aswell. Right? So Liz and Kristen,
you both just mentioned in thecourse of your conversation,
multiple different communitiesin the county. And for those who
may be listening from outside ofHamilton County, we have 48
political subdivisions inHamilton County, which by all
indications is a relativelylarge number of smaller
(15:18):
communities. And Emily, youmanage the Community Development
Block Grant Program, the house,the home grant program, the
emergency shelter solutionsgrant program, on behalf of
Hamilton County, we're going tobe talking a little bit more
about solutions and things thatwe're doing to help with this
issue in our next episode, buttalk a little bit about what you
(15:41):
are hearing from thesecommunities as you work with
them on grant projects, etc. Howis community development? Or
what is Community Developmenthearing about the affordable
housing situation in the courseof your work?
Yeah, it's it definitely comesup pretty frequently, especially
as we talked communities aboutthese housing plans. I think
(16:03):
that, you know, like youmentioned, we have a lot of what
we have very many smallerjurisdictions. And, frankly,
something that we see quiteoften is that there's just a
capacity issue. And that's whythese housing action plans have
been really helpful, at least sofar, and that they kind of do
some of that background legwork.
You know, like, here's the databehind, you know, what is
(16:26):
actually happening in yourcommunity, I think we've found
that Liske and CBI have foundthrough the course of their
research and interviews that thecommunity's look a little bit
different than the people inthem think they do the
perception. So, you know, givingthe, the smaller jurisdictions
sort of the data and the tools,recommendations, you know, and
(16:49):
then a big component of this is,you know, how can the county
help with some of these things.
So I think just trying to buildsome capacity, and actually
being able to implement some,some different projects and
programs to encourage, whetherthat's direct affordable
housing, or, you know, buildinginfrastructure to support
(17:10):
additional housing. I don't havelisten as a Christian Anything
to add on that. But that's,that's, that's really where we
come from and comprehend commutedevelopment.
I just want to add, one of thethings that I think was really
surprising to to even to us whoare fairly close to this issue
is the way the market ischanging. So in a lot of our
(17:32):
communities, we're seeing a bigincrease of investment
purchasing of single familyhomes, in particular by private
companies buy real estateinvestment trust, or wreaths, as
we call them, which ratespurchase properties in
communities where there'sopportunity for them to make
money. And so then they rentthese properties back out,
(17:52):
right, not, that's not all ofthese things are terrible, but
many of them often are out oftown, they're not particularly
close to the properties. And youknow, the other challenge in the
county is that much of ourhousing stock is aging inside
the city of Cincinnati, thehousing stock is different
because it was built pre WorldWar Two. And so a lot of
historic which has its ownchallenges, of course, but the
(18:15):
quality is different things thatwere built post World War Two
weren't built to last 100 years,right they were built to meet a
need of folks returning backfrom the war so we we had a was
different and that's what we seein a lot of our first ring
communities as well. So theyrequire some maintenance and
investment that these companiessometimes are not going to do
right because they're going tokeep it able to rent and you
(18:40):
know, make their profit, butthey're not doing the
maintenance that then eventuallywhen that does come perhaps
comes out of their hands andgoes back into private ownership
by a homeowner they have a lotmore on their plate. So these
are the kind of trends that Ithink it's really important for
us to understand and what rolethese kinds of investors play in
our housing market. We know thatin one community and Cheviot,
homeownership rate went downlike 10% in the last five to 10
(19:03):
years, because just because ofthese kinds of investors coming
in and purchasing the singlefamily housing stock, so these
are all things we really need tounderstand and then talk more
about how do we respond.
So in just playing off on theChristian, so you mentioned a
decline in one community and weknow that recently we got some
census results that by allaccounts were positive, right,
(19:25):
Hamilton County, grew inpopulation. How do we put that
into the context of housingoptions here locally for us in
Hamilton County.
Hamilton County did grow whichis a very good thing. Cheviot
grew Norwood grew, Addison grew.
All of that is good. I think thequestion I often want to talk to
communities about as far as yournext generation of homebuyer
who's the next generation offolks who are living in your
(19:47):
communities, again, back to thissort of narrative of what
Hamilton County and Cincinnatiare all about, you know,
family's great place to raiseyour family, the fastest growing
kind of household in HamiltonCounty. You are single people,
and lots of the communities thatare trying to figure out what to
do next. Now, there are moremillennials, there are more Gen
(20:08):
Z years. And so the questionbecomes if that's the next
generation of folks in yourcommunities, what kind of
housing do they want? And whatkind of housing do they need?
And how do we make sure thatseniors have the kind of housing
they need? So it's, it's I thinkit's this question about who
lives in your community? Andwhat do we need to do to serve
them well, and to serve them inways that are affordable for
(20:28):
them? So what that means i thinkis, so I'm going to silver to
now ag 47 is a new housingproject, not that new anymore.
It's a multifamily project inSilverton that's pretty new for
them. And it really served aneed, there are now millennials
in that building and, and GenXers, whoever the next youngest
(20:49):
group of people is. So I mean, Ithink it's about communities
thinking about what are thekinds of housing types that
young people are looking for,because young people are going
to be your neighbors, and theyare right now. And so I think
that saying there's moresingles, there's more seniors,
there's more people who wantdifferent kinds of housing means
you got to think aboutmodernizing your housing stock.
(21:11):
And I think that's a reallyimportant part of the
conversation too. And that maybemeans multifamily housing along
your business districts. I mean,I think one of the ways that I
connected the Said's, in thehousing study that we did
recently, is every community inHamilton County wants a healthy
business district, they want acoffee shop, they want to
restaurant, we all wantbreweries, to do that you got to
have people shopping in thoseplaces and being in those
(21:34):
places. And that probably meansmore rooftops on your commercial
corridors. And that's probably agood thing. And the other nice
thing about that is there someobsolete retail spaces, some
obsolete commercial spaces, somechurches and schools that are no
longer occupied, all of thosereal estate projects are
opportunities, there areopportunities to do new kinds of
(21:55):
housing in your communities,without disrupting the single
family, neighborhoods and blocksthat exist.
Christian,I just want to note that the the
population is changing aroundthe country, right? We will we
are moving towards. And I don'tlove this phrase, but it's the
(22:16):
way we talk about it majorityminority, right, we're going to
see more many more bipoc peopleof color, black folks, you know,
Latina acts, all of ourneighbors are going to in the
next 30 years, things are goingto change. And so we also have
to make sure that we areattending to those needs through
housing as well. And that we arebeing communities that are
inclusive and supportive ofneighbors moving in that might
(22:40):
not necessarily look look likethey did 30 years ago, right in
these communities. But these arestill places that are, I think,
leaning in to understanding howthey need to as Liz is saying,
you know, with supporting peoplewho are single, a single, you
know, single folks, a singleHead of Household families,
right, that we make sure thatwe're not just building one
bedroom apartments, right, thatwe're not just building studios,
(23:02):
which is a lot of what we see innew development these days. But
we are thinking about familyunits, different cot, you know,
different generations livingtogether, there's lots of
different opportunities, Ithink, for us to support and be
the kind of community that weknow, we know we're all going to
be at a certain point in time.
And let's get let's get on that,I think be really intentional
(23:25):
now.
And just as we continue to thinkabout the the problem, one of
the the reasons I was so excitedto have all of you here today,
and in particular Liske and CBIwas, I think the the con, the
local conversation on housingreally started to I mean, it was
(23:46):
going on before that, obviouslyyou you all were heavily
involved with it. But the studythat was done just a few years
ago and Kristen, you can correctme maybe it's longer than that
now I can't remember 2017 2017Okay, so we're going on four
years now on the gap inaffordable housing in Hamilton
(24:07):
County, really started toaccelerate the conversation and
you started to hear moreconversation in local
communities, with our friendsover at the city of Cincinnati,
and then Hamilton County aswell. So I didn't want to leave
today's session before we tookthe opportunity to take a step
back. And had you guys talk alittle bit about what did that
study? What was the purpose ofthat study? And what did it wind
(24:27):
up showing was the the housingclimate in Hamilton County.
All talk big picture and thenlet let's dig in on the
specifics because that is herspecialty. So as I think was
talked about a few minutes ago,you know, we know that we as a
region, I think we're reallyparticularly focused after the
recession on repopulating.
Again, the city of Cincinnati inparticular bringing folks back
(24:50):
into the urban core increasingthe taxpayer base we know that
is really important to having ahealthy robust region and the
city is the center of that. SoWe were really focused on market
rate and inside the city ofCincinnati luxury as well as
housing options. And and I thinkbecause we feel that we are a
place that is affordablerelative to other markets that
(25:11):
it takes care of itself, right?
Well, since it is a low cost ofliving community, this region is
affordable. But it's not whenyou actually unpack that in
communities. So theneighborhoods where Liske and
CBI have worked inside the cityof Cincinnati for the last 15
years, we knew that folks werestruggling to find housing in
community, right, that folkscould not find housing that was
(25:33):
meeting their needs. So we saidwe need to quantify this. And so
that's really where CBI spent agood bit of time digging into
the census data, which we'revery excited to have more
opportunity to manipulate thatand update those figures, you
know, once more of the data isreleased, and next year. So we
know it's a little dated, butit's the best we have. So we
have we have to sort of lean inon that. And we also have to
(25:55):
recognize the anecdotally wehear this from folks and
communities too, right. So evenif you don't like the numbers,
we know that our neighbors arestruggling to find housing. So
we found in that report thatthere are of about 40,000
households in Hamilton County asa whole that are in the very
lowest income range in ouragain, going back to the wonky
(26:17):
area median income, but folksthat are making, let's say, less
than $10,000 a year, which canyou imagine making less than
$10,000 a year, I mean, let'slet's really dig in, we need to
have some empathy here andunderstand how difficult that
must be. Those there were 40,000households that could not find
housing, that would allow themto spend that 30% of their
income on housing, they wereseverely cost burdened. So that
(26:40):
means they were paying upwardsof 80%. If you're paying 80% of
your monthly income on yourhousing costs, what do you do
when you get a flat tire or youyour child needs school supplies
or there's a you know, an urgentmedical need that you need to
take care of wheat people areliving on the edge. And that's
what we really came to realizethat we need to help people
understand this issue moredeeply to be able to I think
(27:03):
then figure out how do we get tothose solutions together. But if
we don't really explore that,that folks are doing a lot with
a little and they're reallychallenged to find housing. And
as housing costs increase, theirwages are not increasing, right,
wages are staying flat. And thatdoes not work either. So So I
will veer off slightly just tosay that this is not just a
(27:24):
housing supply issue, right.
This is also a workforce issue.
This is how do we have jobs thatare of a quality that are paying
a wage that allows households tohave some ability to build
wealth and to support theirfamilies in meaningful ways.
So I really love that the countyis having this kind of
conversation, because at acounty level, you know, part of
my job is trying to explain whatthe county does. And we affect
(27:48):
and our partners and so manyaspects of what you just talked
about, you know, workforce, youknow, with with our work on the
web, right now, commissionersare very interested in keeping
this topic front and center anda lot of their priorities. I you
know, either with the generalfund budget or you know,
definitely with the Americanrescue plan dollars that we're
(28:09):
trying to figure out right now.
So I won't get into the gorydetails of the the demographics,
but I will say that the way thatwe approach the question was to
say, who lives in HamiltonCounty? And how much do they
make? And then how many housingunits are in Hamilton County?
(28:30):
And what do they cost eitherowner or renter units? And we
stack those two things uptogether? And we said, Does
everybody in the county, everyperson who lives here have a
place they can find that theycan pay 30% of their income for?
And the answer was no. And wewere surprised by that. And so
that was really the impetus forthis study, it really is just
that simple. It is to say, andso this is really about
(28:54):
providing, I think we used tothink that if everybody had a
job, they would be fine. As longas households had a job, they
would be good to go. And I thinkwhat we're understanding now is
that housing is every bit asimportant as a job, to have a
safe, stable place to live ispart of what helps you be a
contributing citizen. And so thejob is important. And the
(29:16):
housing unit is important. Andall of that to say that I'm back
to my 20 somethings, and theyhate it when I talk about them.
You want how you want yourhousehold to be financially
stable, and a job and a housethat you can afford, I think are
critical elements of that. Sothat's really what this is all
about.
(29:37):
When that gets right into theheart of recognizing that, you
know, all the different subjectswe talked about on this podcast
are that the county and the cityand local governments are
involved in. It's not just abouthousing programs. It's not just
about workforce developmentprograms, about how all these
things fit together, right it ithits as much as our our site
(29:59):
readiness program. I mean thatwe have a we're trying to work
with through different economicdevelopment agencies to bring in
new manufacturers and make surethat we're creating an
environment where there are wellgood paying jobs in Hamilton
County so that people can, asyou, as you said, make a living
at the same time that they areaffording a good place a good
safe place to live and doing allthe other things they need to do
(30:21):
put their kids through school,etc.
I mean, it's about it's aboutmaking sure that residents of
Hamilton County have what theyneed, right. And when you buy,
buy or rent a house, it's notjust the bricks and sticks, it's
your neighbors, it's the stores,you have options to shop out
into the schools that you haveoptions to shop at. It's whether
you're close to a bus line sothat you can get around or
(30:43):
whether you're close to job. SoI mean, when you buy that
address you there's a whole bigthing that comes with that. And
I think that from a publicsector standpoint, the objective
is does everybody who lives herehave what they need. And I think
that understanding the housingpiece of that has become a
really important part of theequation.
Question for you, as we start towrap up here, but it would be
(31:08):
remiss if I did not ask, how hasCOVID impacted this? Is this is
the impact of COVID on thisquestion, is a blip on the
radar, or is this a longsustained impact on the housing
situation?
So COVID has put to say COVIDput a you know, a big roadblock
(31:30):
up in front of this issue is anunderstatement. I think we still
do not know the impact, I thinklong term of how COVID will will
will harm householdsparticularly again, folks that
have our you know, incomeinsecure and are housing
insecure. Because now you know,we had the eviction moratorium
that was in place, we had allsorts of wonderful resources
(31:53):
from the cares act and otherfederal tools at our disposal
that we still need to keepworking on leveraging and
getting those dollars out thedoor to help households. But
with the we know that this wasalso a way that that
particularly unscrupulouslandlords were able to take
advantage of old vulnerablehouseholds. And even with a
(32:15):
moratorium in place, we stillknow folks were being pulled out
of their homes. And that alsoimpacts credit that impacts your
ability to secure housing in thefuture, right like this. It all
feeds in and you know, whatwe've heard from our partners at
Community Action Agency is thathuge percentage of folks that
were coming in for assistance,particularly around rental or,
you know, mortgage support, ifthey were approaching
(32:38):
foreclosure, these are folksthat have never requested
support or required that in thepast. So this is, you know, I
think if people want to, youknow, some sometimes we vilify
poor folks especially right. AndI think that to say that this is
also something that impactedpeople who are not participating
(32:58):
in public support tools in thepast is really important thing
for us to recognize that thereare a lot of folks that are
struggling, it's invisible, wedon't always know it. You don't
see it. As as but I think thatyou, in fact, we heard, you
know, last week or at a meetingthat you know, homelessness
actually went down in the countylast year. But we're going to
(33:20):
start to see an increase infamily homelessness, we're going
to start to see more people thatare really struggling because
the the, the impacts are longlasting, and and we hear a lot
about people going back to work,or not taking jobs going back to
work. We have a lot of vacantjobs right now, especially in
service sector industries. And Ithink that also plays a role in
housing, of course, but it'salso recognizing, again, are
(33:43):
these jobs paying what folksneed? And are we are they
receiving the benefits or thesupports that they need? You
can't hire someone to work 15hours a week, you know, people
really need, you know, we needto hold our employers to the
standard of, of making sure thatour jobs are quality so that
folks can maintain theirhousing. So yes, COVID has been
a disaster, frankly. And I thinkthat we still will feel this for
(34:06):
the next five to 10 years.
So I think, Christine, that's agreat cap to put on this in
terms of just understanding thatthis problem is so incredibly
wide ranging. It impactseverybody in this community from
a corporate CEO who's looking tomake sure that he's got the
workforce he needs, in thecommunity, to families, to
(34:26):
single parents to people who arestruggling with with
homelessness. Everybody in thiscommunity has an interest in
this conversation. And we Ithink did a great job today of
talking about how wide rangingthis issue is, how important it
is. And I'm thrilled because Iget to have the three of you
back next time to talk aboutsome of the things that your
(34:47):
organizations are doing and whatHamilton County is doing to
respond to the challenge. SoKristin, Liz, Emily, thanks so
much for being with us today.
Really enjoyed our time togetherand I want to thank all of you
for listening to Episode 11 ofheart and hustle in Hamilton
County. Just a reminder tosubscribe on Apple podcast,
Spotify and other providers. Youcan also find the podcast on our
(35:10):
website, Hamilton Countyohio.gov on the county
administrator's page. So onbehalf of my co host Bridget
Doherty, I will see you nexttime on heart and hustle in
Hamilton County.
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