December 13, 2024 • 56 mins
What if you could harness the healing power of herbs while supporting your loved ones through life's toughest battles? Join us as we welcome Victoria Phoenix, a dedicated herbalist and Heart of Herbs Herbal School graduate, who embarked on her herbal journey while caring for her mother during cancer treatment. Victoria's story is a testament to the powerful blend of folk herbalism and scientific medicine, showing how these traditions can coexist and enhance each other. Working in Southern Louisiana, she specializes in the safe integration of herbs with pharmaceuticals, highlighting the critical importance of understanding contraindications, and shares how her ongoing nutritional studies have added a rich layer to her practice.
Our conversation illuminates the heart of herbalism, emphasizing the need to be both knowledgeable and compassionate. Victoria shares her experiences at local farmers markets and events, underscoring the value of community engagement and collaboration with experts in related fields such as mycology and Ayurveda. By forming relationships with small-scale farmers and growing protected plants, she shows us how we can nurture a sustainable and interconnected healing community. We explore the enriching diversity of perspectives in herbalism, likening it to varied recipes for making bread, each bringing unique value to the table.
Balancing professional passion with personal life can be a dance, and Victoria offers heartfelt insights into this balance. From self-care routines to the unexpected joys of writing and publishing, she paints a vivid picture of the challenges and rewards of her journey. Victoria’s anecdotes, from humorous tales of life in gator country to the profound joy of having a baby named after her, highlight the deep connections and community bonds that make her practice so fulfilling. This episode is a treasure trove of practical advice, personal stories, and genuine wisdom, perfect for anyone eager to deepen their understanding of herbalism and community-driven healing.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Hi, this is Demetra Clark, the director of Heart of
Herbs Herbal School, and today,on the Heart of Herbs Herbal
School podcast, we're speakingto Victoria Phoenix.
Victoria is a graduate of Heartof Herbs and she's also doing
all kinds of really coolconnection work out in the
(00:24):
herbal in the healing world, andso I want to welcome Victoria
to our podcast today.
Welcome.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
Victoria.
Thank you, Demetria.
I appreciate that I'm so happyto be here with you.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
Oh well, thank you, we appreciate it.
We love to hear from graduatesabout what they're doing, so I'm
going to ask you a fewquestions about like what
they're doing.
So I'm going to ask you a fewquestions about like you know
what got you to where you aretoday, so what originally drew
you to herbalism as a path?
Speaker 2 (00:52):
I was drawn to herbalism.
I walked the cancer path withmy mother in high school and I
saw how Western medicine works.
And although I do think thatWestern medicine certainly has
its place in the healing world,I felt that there could be more
to healing and perhaps morepreventative ways to keep our
(01:15):
body in alignment with healththroughout our life.
So when I found out aboutherbalism, I found your school,
and that's when I startedsigning up for certifications.
Speaker 1 (01:26):
Oh, that's cool.
Well, it's not cool how youoriginally got introduced to
herbalism.
It's cool that you decided tostudy with us, and I always
really appreciate that.
But walking the path withsomeone who has cancer I know
I've done this a few timesmyself with people that I love
it's really hard work, and youalmost have to learn a new
(01:48):
language.
So then bringing the herbalworld language into it also must
have been really challenging.
So I really applaud you fortaking that on and navigating
those two worlds with yourmother.
Thank, you.
Speaker 2 (02:05):
I appreciate that.
Speaker 1 (02:07):
So what is one of the major aspects of herbalism that
resonates with you the most orthat you feel like really
connects you with your work in away that you didn't expect?
Speaker 2 (02:25):
really connects you with your work in a way that you
didn't expect.
So even though I started off inreally folk herbalism, through
my education I became rooted inthe scientific aspect of it and
that was surprising to me.
To really learn how you knowthe chemical constituents of
herbs work with the chemistry ofthe human body and the learning
it was.
It's really like a puzzle, um,and just learning how everything
(02:49):
connected and um, yeah it.
I feel like I'm always astudent of that and you know
we'll always be learning aboutthat well, I agree with you.
Speaker 1 (03:00):
I always feel like there's something you.
I always learn stuff fromstudents as they're going
through or they help me adjustmy perspective.
So do you find that when you'reworking with clients, that you
enjoy the clients that umchallenge you and make you think
about herbalism in a differentway?
Or or are you just over that?
Speaker 2 (03:24):
So, honestly, I do what I specialize in with a lot
of people because I live here inthe South, in South Louisiana,
and most people are onpharmaceuticals.
So through my clinical masterherbalist certification that I
took through Heart of Herbs, Ilearned the importance of
finding like contraindicationsand drug and herbal interactions
(03:47):
.
So I feel like I find thatthat's a lot of the work that I
do to help people be safewhenever they're taking herbs,
which is probably one of themost challenging aspects of it,
because there's a lot ofresearch that's involved with
that.
Speaker 1 (04:02):
Oh yeah, definitely definitely.
Speaker 2 (04:04):
And it's.
Speaker 1 (04:04):
I mean Southern Louisiana.
There's, um, I mean, there's somany cool plants that you come
into contact with, but alsothere's so many cool ways that
you can include herbs and thingslike food and just the diet
there the spices in Louisianajust lends itself to like
(04:27):
creating the most healing foods.
Do you ever find that you arehelping people with herbs
through their diet and tweakingrecipes to give them, you know,
more nourishing?
Like I live in the South and so, like you know, I'm always
talking to people about like,yeah, when you do your greens,
like add more dandelion or addmore chickweed, or you know, I
(04:49):
like to bring the herbs intosome of our regional recipes Do
you find that you do that?
Speaker 2 (04:55):
Absolutely.
I chickweed and cleavers andthings like that Dandelion
things that we find commonlyoutside just growing in the wild
dandelion things that we findcommonly outside just growing in
the wild.
You know, I really encouragepeople to make broths and things
like that for their soup, soit's like they have a stock
ready that has medicinalbenefits in it.
(05:16):
Actually, I'm almost done witha nutrition degree from Sierra
College and so nutrition isdefinitely part of my studies
and you know, going to schoolfor nutrition and having to take
, you know, anatomy andphysiology really expanded my
understanding of how herbs workwith the body.
(05:39):
So I'm glad I'm doing thatbecause it helps fill in those
spaces that I wasn't reallyaware of.
You know every how everythingworked, so yeah, that's really
cool.
Speaker 1 (05:50):
I didn't know you were adding nutrition to your
your vast portfolio portfolio.
We'll talk about that a littlebit more.
But what is one of the?
I mean, are you having a lot offun working with nutritional
herbs now that you have, like adifferent perspective from your
nutritional program, and are youconstantly like thinking about
new ways?
That I know.
(06:10):
When I went and did some of mynutrition studies.
I was like oh my gosh, I cantotally tweak everything around
me now, Like I'm putting stuffin baby food for the kids and
like you know, all kinds of funstuff.
Speaker 2 (06:25):
Well, it's interesting because, going to
nutrition school, you haveaccess to the dietitian records
for, like, how they categorizefood and things like that.
And what I noticed is that I wasadding a lot to the library of
information because there is alot of information missing about
(06:46):
natural, like plants beingnutritious, growing in the area.
So that was kind of a funchallenge that I gave myself to
help add in things to kind ofnormalize the use, and so, if
you know, a nutritionist was onthe database and wanted to look
up a plant, you know if the morewe add, the more information
becomes common knowledge, youknow.
(07:08):
So, yeah, as far as includingnutrition and nutritious herbs,
I do help people a little bitwith their diets when I do
consults, but I mainly focus onmaking medicine through the form
of extracts and tinctures andalso skincare, and I'm also I
(07:29):
have I'm a mother of threechildren, so I've made my
children's medicine since theywere born and for the most part,
kept them out of the doctor'soffice because of that, and I
enjoy working with mothers whowant to know a more natural way
to help heal their children.
I really enjoy, you know,making extracts and talking to
(07:51):
people about how those work.
Speaker 1 (07:53):
Oh, wow, that's awesome.
So tell us about your businessand where people can find you
and the type of products thatyou sell, and maybe, like, just
tell us a little bit about someof your more popular products
too, if you don't mind.
Speaker 2 (08:08):
Oh sure, so I own Sunflower Alchemy.
I, like I said, I makeextractsures that I feel like is
really, um, a lot of people can, uh, benefit from.
It is cat's claw bark, which isa vine that is native to Peru.
(08:31):
They call it cat's claw barkbecause it has thorns that look
like cat's claws on there, but,um, it's a very powerful
antiviral.
Um, you know, the physician'sdesk referencebal Medicines is a
really great book, because wehave scientifically backed
studies in that book and one ofthe things that that book talks
about is how HIV patients havehad success with cat's claw bark
(08:56):
, how it stimulates thelymphatic system to produce
macrophages, which are the cellsthat eat cancer cells in the
body.
So it goes after things likelymphoma.
It's been proven to bebeneficial against breast cancer
and also tumors in the brain,and it's also a very powerful
antiviral as well.
(09:17):
So anyone who has like gout orarthritis or any inflammation in
the joints and things like that, it helps to lessen the
stiffness in the joints and kindof break down those crystals
that form in those joints sothat we can move more fluidly.
And yeah, I really that's oneof my favorite tinctures that I
(09:38):
work with.
Another tincture that I like tomake for children especially.
I call it my calm and focusblend.
It has chamomile and oats andlemon balm in it, and it's a
really great alternative forchildren who struggle with like
ADHD or ADD tendencies, calmthem and ground them while also
(10:06):
toning their digestive systemand also keeping them healthy
while they're in a schoolenvironment, because we have
antiviral properties andantimicrobial properties in that
as well, and I've heard a lotof good feedback from mothers on
how that tincture works.
Speaker 1 (10:18):
Yeah, those are great herbs for kids.
It's almost like I always whenI think about like working with
herbs with children, I alwaysthink of like filling in what's
missing, not that there'ssomething wrong with their body,
you know what I mean.
Like it's like kids are.
I always kind of view kids aslike being born perfect.
You're perfect just the way youare Right.
(10:39):
But sometimes environmentalfactors, lifestyle, you know,
some kids have, you know,deficiencies or they're
differently abled, and itdoesn't mean they're not perfect
, it just means there's thingsthat we can do to help them out.
And I love that.
How herbs kind of fill in thosegaps so well for little kids.
(11:09):
It's like, um, it I almost, likeI used to, almost like I would
almost say to my kids hey, youknow what, everyone's coming
down with a cold.
We're gonna do whatever tea orsomething.
And like their bodies wouldstart to respond to the threat
of the tea before they even hadto drink it.
You know like it would be like,oh, the tea's coming start, you
know, let's start our littleimmune systems.
Like mama's going to give usthis stuff.
And I had one kid who would wasokay with taking anything and
(11:31):
the other kid I'd have to belike just pound it, just pound
it, get it in your system, getit over with.
But it was almost like their,their bodies, when they're
exposed to herbs.
I almost feel like they.
They start to know how to adaptbefore the herb even comes in.
So it kind of opens up wherethe puzzle piece needs to go.
Speaker 2 (11:49):
Do you?
Speaker 1 (11:50):
feel that way sometimes with kids, Cause I
know you work a lot with withyoung families.
Speaker 2 (11:55):
I do for sure, and even you know, on that note,
like sometimes I'll do like alittle herb walk or something
like that, and you know you seethe children interact with
plants and you can, you can seean exchange right then you know,
um, how it kind of captivatesthem.
It's also almost like wheneverthe plant medicine or you know
gets in their aura, it's like avibrational shift occurs.
(12:18):
You know, which is really coolto watch.
Speaker 1 (12:22):
Yeah, I feel like there's definitely like an
energy exchange with children.
It's almost like I'm just goingto sound goofy but, it's almost
like the earth is likebreastfeeding kids.
They just kind of like justbeing in proximity to, like when
a baby is just in the proximityof their, their breastfeeding
(12:45):
parent, right, right, andthey're exposed to something the
milk is already starting toadapt.
And I kind of feel like plantsand the earth kind of have that
relationship with kids, to kindof that connection that as
adults we just lose unless wework really hard to maintain it
or make a focused, you know wefocus on how do we maintain this
(13:10):
, this cyclical relationshipbetween us and the planet?
And I just feel like kids arelike, you know, let us get dirty
, let us roll around in theplants and we're going to be
okay.
Speaker 2 (13:23):
I love that.
Yes, for sure.
I think that a lot of children,you know, they're much more
open.
We get programmed, you know,the more that we grow up and,
like you said, as an adult itwas, I had to kind of rediscover
myself and my connection withthe earth to be able to really,
you know, understand herbalism.
It wasn't just studying thescience of it or whatever.
(13:46):
It was really, you know, a full, a well-rounded, you know,
connection that had differentfacets of how I needed to change
the way I thought to be able tofully connect with plant
medicine.
Speaker 1 (14:00):
Yeah, no, I definitely, I definitely get
that.
Yeah, no, I definitely, Idefinitely get that.
So when you say that you, youknow you can feel the or see the
or sense the auric kind ofshift around kids when they're
with plants, I'm like I get it,I totally get it, I love it, I
love it.
So where can people find yourproducts?
Speaker 2 (14:18):
so, um, I have an Instagram it's called sunflower
underscore alchemy, and I'm alsoon Facebook as Victoria Phoenix
and um, I'm working on awebsite right now.
It's not quite done yet, but,um, I do have a menu that I
offer people once we connectthrough messenger and email and
things like that.
Speaker 1 (14:38):
So, oh, that's awesome.
And when?
So when you have your website,let us know so we can go back
and edit the show bio, so it'llbe in there for everyone who
listens to you later and they'llbe able to find you.
Speaker 2 (14:54):
Awesome, I will definitely do that.
Speaker 1 (14:55):
Thank you, yeah, so you've studied at a lot of
different places.
So where, where did you studyherbalism?
I mean, I know you studiedheart of herbs.
What drew you to a heart ofherbs initially?
Speaker 2 (15:10):
Well, I always say that Rosemary Gladstar is the
grandmother of modern dayherbalism, and so, of course,
that was my first book, which Ibelieve she was your, one of
your teachers, oh yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:23):
I adore her.
She's a great human being.
For me, being a good herbalistis important.
I also want you to be like adecent human being.
So she definitely takes both ofthose boxes, because I'm not a
very good fan girl, you knowlike.
I'm not someone who's like, oh,I'm just not like that, right,
(15:43):
I don't know what's wrong withme, I just missed that thing.
But she's definitely a personthat I can look at and say
decent human being, excellentherbalist, and those are two
things that are so important tome.
Speaker 2 (15:56):
Yeah, that's where I started was with one of her
books, and I can definitely saythat um of her books.
And I can definitely say thatreading books has made me rooted
in being an herbalist.
Like I just can't express howimportant it is and having all
those herbal books on yourbookshelf, because you might not
be able to remember everysingle thing that you read, but
(16:17):
you know where it is in thatbook.
So through years of going backto reference, you know your
brain starts to kind of memorizewhat you've read many times.
So then whenever you startworking with other people I work
with a few men, but I mostlywork with women it seems like
women are a lot more drawn toherbalism and that's kind of
(16:38):
just who comes through thefloodgates for me, for me, and
so when I work with them and I'mable to reference the
information from books that Iread, it really it helps me to
connect with them and it kind ofcomes out in a clear way
because it's published and Ifeel like, because books are
(16:59):
published, it's a much moredependable resource of
information for herbs versusjust Googling everything you
know.
So I highly recommend readingthose books and building up your
herbal library.
It's very important.
Speaker 1 (17:15):
Oh, I completely agree about you know.
I mean, my herbal bookshelf isnine or ten feet tall I'm
looking at it right now andabout five feet wide, like just,
and that's just the books Ihave in my office, and it's like
sometimes it's not even the actof necessarily reading them,
(17:36):
it's knowing that they're there,it's like a nice warm blanket,
you know, like, okay, they'rethere.
If I need them, they're there.
Or if I just sometimes I justwant to like open one and like
read what so-and-so says aboutthis issue, and even if it's not
the same perspective that Ihave or I would never use those
(17:59):
herbs, it's.
It's so good to see thedifferent types of herbalism and
the different paths thatherbalists take, because I think
sometimes we get so focused onno, it's this herb for this, and
it's only practice herbalismthis way and you can, only you
know, and it's like no, no, no.
It's like it would be likesaying there's only one way to
make a loaf of bread.
(18:20):
Right, you know, I, and so Ithink it's it's.
I think it's awesome that youhave books at your disposal and
that you really feel thatthey're an important part of
your educational and connectionprocess with clients, because
you do a lot of connection workin your community too, right,
(18:40):
yes, I do.
Speaker 2 (18:41):
I love working with my community.
And just a little tip of how totap into your community I would
recommend going to localmarkets and going to your local
farmers markets.
I have met so many people thatI have started business
relationships with who I met ata market.
(19:04):
You know I have a niceapothecary in my opinion but I
don't have the time to.
You know, extract mushroommedicine, or really, you know it
can become a very the dualextraction.
You know it can become a veryscientific process and I work
with myocentrics in Baton Rouge.
Her name is Jordan Gross.
(19:25):
She graduated from LSU, she isan agricultural and biological
engineer and her mushroommedicine is in my apothecary.
Because I know that it's toomuch for me to try to do
everything and I need to be outto my community to kind of fill
those holes that I can find inmy apothecary.
(19:48):
And not only have I gone tomarkets, I've also put on events
.
I just did an event in April ata place called the Nola Castle
that's in New Orleans, and I hadmy friend Dr Effie Br Branton,
who studied Ayurveda in India.
She came in and taught aworkshop to people about the
(20:09):
introduction to Ayurveda.
And then my friend Jordan ofMycocentrics, who I just
commented about.
She taught a mushroom class onforaging and how the medicinal
properties work.
So it can really become amultifaceted thing where not
only are people coming to aplace where they can find
(20:30):
natural remedies, and thingslike that, but we can also hold
space for people to learn andexpand their knowledge, which I
feel like is really important.
Speaker 1 (20:39):
Oh, definitely, I think that farmers are the
coolest like farmers, markets.
I love them, just love the vibe, the feeling of them.
Being married to a farmermyself, I definitely think that
connecting with farming isincredible.
And now, so when I say farmer,I should clarify that my husband
(21:02):
is a small scale farmer we'renot producing like anything
really big scale but theconnection with the community is
amazing and I do agree it's agreat place to make those really
necessary local threads thathold and bind us all together
(21:24):
and make us a community,especially when it comes to
healing, because farmers arealways looking for value added
crops, even small scale.
And so, as an herbalist, ifyou're like, hey, I'm really
looking for a farmer who wantsto do like a five year like
commitment with me on growingsome of these more protected
plants.
There's farmers out there whohave a few acres that can't be
(21:48):
used for traditional crops andthat they may be really
interested, especially ifthey're organic farmers or
permaculture.
They may really be interestedin helping farmers, helping
herbalists excuse me, you knowconnect with with growing some
of these more protected plantsin the United States.
So we protect the naturalenvironment and you know we can
(22:10):
still have a stock of them.
So I just love that you broughtup the connection with with
farmers and farmers markets andI would love to.
So where do people learn aboutyour retreats?
Speaker 2 (22:24):
So I work for a company called Cornerstone
Counseling.
They have a website.
It's Cornerstone Counseling,and I just did a retreat in
Louisiana.
I'll be traveling to Costa Ricain October with them and I'll
be doing an herbal workshop.
I also practice sound therapy.
I play the gong and bowls fromNepal, and so it's a very
(22:48):
multifaceted set of tools, thatis, that are being, you know,
made available for people tolearn about how to naturally
heal their bodies in manydifferent ways, you know.
Speaker 1 (23:03):
I love that, so it's cornerstonecounselingcom.
Speaker 2 (23:11):
Um, I can send you the link after.
Okay, that's great.
Speaker 1 (23:14):
That's great Because I would really love people to be
able to, you know, sign up foryour retreats if they want to.
So, where do you find that youget the most encouragement as an
herbalist?
Speaker 2 (23:29):
the most encouragement.
As an herbalist, I feel likewhenever, you know, when my
children were I have a six monthold, but whenever my so I'm
nursing, so I don't really haveto worry about giving her
glycerins or things like thatbecause my immune system takes
care of it.
But watching my childrenrespond to herbal glycerin and
(23:52):
watching it work and watchingyou know something that could
have been a much longer sicknessdisappear in a couple of days
was very encouraging to me.
I've helped quite a few womenwho were having fertility issues
have babies through, you know,herbs that balance the hormone
and also like vaginal steamingand things like that and changes
(24:15):
to the diet and working ontheir liver, you know, because
we have to balance our liverbefore, you know, our hormones
can really come into balance.
So watching these women whobefore were having a lot of
issues getting pregnant and thenwe got I got them on a regimen
and then they they got pregnantand then they had a healthy baby
, I mean that's that was prettyencouraging.
Speaker 1 (24:37):
I'd say yeah, I would say that too.
That's pretty awesome.
I love that.
I remember the first time Ifound out that someone I had
helped with some fertility stuffhad named their, their baby
after me, and I thought that wasso cool.
They didn't tell me.
Someone else told me like, oh,by the way, they said they named
(24:58):
their baby and I was just like,oh, my gosh, there's two of us
out there.
So I think it is really coolwhen we can help people, you
know, become families and yeah,that's really beautiful.
So, wow, you do a lot of stuff,you are a community resource.
(25:20):
Definitely Like, how cool isthat?
Speaker 2 (25:24):
And I wanted to mention also another way to tap
into you know your community is.
If you to tap into you knowyour community is if you, you
know, go to a shop and maybethey have like a nice amount of
herbs and um, and you're anherbalist or you're just
starting out in herbalism,connect with those shop owners,
you know, um, it's not us versusthem, it really takes everyone
(25:45):
connecting and no one's going tohave your edge.
And one of the things that Iwill always remember, when I
took my certification with you,one of the things you said in
one of your lectures was keepyour head in your own game.
And I have repeated that tomyself countless times.
You know it's not.
We don't have to get jealous.
(26:06):
You know, like, there's thesebeautiful women that work in an
apothecary called Soul Rootshere in Baton Rouge and I
connected with them and you knownow my medicine is available at
their store and we do ask anherbalist day and I'll be there
for five hours, or ask acertified aromatherapist day and
I'll go there and dopersonalized blends for people
(26:28):
and stuff like that.
So you can really want, if youconnect with people who maybe
are a little bit, you know,further along in the success of
their business.
You can help each other.
It doesn't have to be us versusthem, you know.
So I think that's important.
Speaker 1 (26:45):
Oh, I love that you brought that up.
That's always been.
That's always been aninteresting thing in relation to
business and and businessdevelopment.
And a lot of people come toherbalism saying they want a
business, but then they're like,oh, but I I don't know if I
want to be in business, you know.
(27:08):
And then they, and then they'llget worried and they're like
I'm checking their, theirwebsite, they added this product
and this product.
And I'm like whoa, slow down,like why do you care?
And they're like what?
You know, because we do.
We do have the ability toaccess so much of our quote
(27:29):
competitors information all thetime.
So it's really easy to spendfive hours worrying about what
someone else is doing instead ofbeing like, hey, what is it
that we're doing?
What are we bringing to thetable?
And I always think it's funnybecause people be like, well,
how does your course compare tosomeone else's?
And I'm like I have no idea andI feel bad.
(27:51):
I feel like I'm not doing my duediligence because I should know
, but I don like I have no ideaand I feel bad.
I feel like I'm not doing mydue diligence because I should
know, but I don't.
I don't because I think wespend so much time in our
culture worrying about whatother people are doing that we
just don't spend enough time onourselves.
And when we really want toconnect with people and we
really want to promote healingright, that is probably not
where we want to be focused ison other people.
We want to promote healingright.
(28:11):
That is probably not where wewant to be focused is on other
people.
We want to be focused on theperson who's in front of us and
the person who needs us.
So I'm really glad that youbrought that up.
Speaker 2 (28:20):
Yeah, I think you know everyone.
There's so many people outthere who are looking for
alternative forms of healing,you know, and we have just this
wealth of knowledge at ourfingertips with our phones and
things like that now.
So, being alternative in youknow your practices of medicine
and things like that, and whatyou take isn't so taboo these
(28:41):
days or you know so left fieldit's becoming.
You know you go to the store tobuy a bag of coffee and there's
mushroom coffee there.
You know which is.
You know in medicinal, hasmedicinal mushrooms in it,
although we know that extractsare, you know, really more of a
potent medicine than you knowyou're not sure the quality of.
You know the dried mushrooms inthe coffee or something like
(29:04):
that, but that's how much it'sout there.
You know.
Speaker 1 (29:07):
Yeah, you can.
You know, you can get.
You know, I guess I guess howto say it you can get your.
You can get your herbal stuffat Walmart if you want it.
You know what I mean.
Like it's like at every boxstore now.
There's brands, and's reallyexciting, but there are
potential quality issues.
I'm glad that you brought thatup.
(29:34):
I always try to source whereeverything came from, and so I
never trust someone who says tome everything that we have is
only here, and you know, we groweverything in Idaho.
And I'm like that's notpossible.
You don't have greenhouses.
There's no way that you'regrowing some South American herb
in Idaho or whatever.
And I'm like that's notpossible.
You don't have greenhouses.
There's no way that you'regrowing some South American herb
in Idaho, or whatever, and I'mjust saying Idaho, I'm just
(29:56):
throwing it out there, I'm nottalking about any specific
business.
So I think it's good that peoplelearn how to source where
things come from, and justbecause we have access doesn't
mean it's always the best, but Ithink it is inspiring because
maybe, if your budget orknowledge base wasn't going to
(30:19):
get you into herbs right away,being able to access these
things in other ways and newways.
I think, is where the seed isplanted for a lot of people.
So they're like they get the,they get the mushroom coffee,
and they're like, oh, this isgreat, I'm feeling some effect.
And then they're like, well, Iheard this brand's better, so
(30:40):
I'm going to try this brand.
And then, well wait, I waslooking it up and I found out
this kind of extract is, but youknow, and then it's like it
just starts this domino effect.
So I'm really happy you broughtthat up, because I think that's
such an important point.
Speaker 2 (30:56):
And you know, just to kind of continue on with that
conversation, but a little bitof a shift in aromatherapy.
You know, whenever I took myaromatherapy certification at
Heart of Herbs, I learned theimportance of, you know, buying
organic essential oils and thattherapeutic grade isn't really a
thing, you know.
(31:16):
They kind of made that up andyou know if someone's trying to
tell you to ingest theseessential oils, they're really
trying probably to make a saleversus actually help with
healing, because we know it'snot safe to ingest essential
oils internally.
So there's, you know there isthings that you have to watch
out for in marketing.
Even though it's great theinformation is getting out there
(31:39):
, it's we definitely research isessential, you know.
Speaker 1 (31:43):
Oh yeah, definitely, and I know I'm going to say this
and people make it annoying,but I've been saying this for
over 20 something years.
You know, mlms are not whereit's at.
It's a way that actually a lotof people, especially in
(32:06):
aromatherapy, come to us foreducation because they're
they're selling MLM products andthey're finding that they don't
have enough information or thatthey accidentally like burnt
somebody or, you know, likewhatever their their thing is
and, um, you know, just learninghow to source your own
ingredients or do the researchon how to find a safe and good
(32:26):
product that you can afford isso much better than getting
yourself involved in some kindof thing where you're making
everyone in your family run awayfrom you when they see you
coming because you want to sellthem something and I, you know
it.
It is really, it is reallyscary, but I'm probably going to
get all the MLM people mad atme, so I should shut up.
Speaker 2 (32:50):
Well, it's funny how you say.
You know, I feel like a lot inthe beginning of herbalism.
I made a lot of medicine forfree, you know, and I kind of
over offered like oh, someonemight say they have an ailment,
and I would kind of try to buttin and say this about herbs or,
you know like make themsomething without them really
asking, and I always was metwith some sort of like energetic
(33:10):
resistance.
You know, like it didn't reallyfeel like a natural flow.
And whenever I took a step backand I finally finished all of
my certifications and myschooling through Heart of Herbs
and I started to get booths atmarkets and things like that and
allowed the space for people tocome to me, I stopped feeling
resistance.
It felt like such a more youknow natural flow.
(33:34):
So it's like sometimes it canbe kind of scary to put yourself
out there and you know, rent abooth but usually they're like
25 or 30 bucks.
You know what do you have tolose?
And you'll actually be amazedat how eager people are to learn
about natural ways in whichthey can help their body.
Speaker 1 (33:53):
Oh, definitely, I think booths are.
Booths are, you know the costof, you know, a nice dinner out
with your partner or you knowfriends, it's like, okay, so
make that you can.
You can find a way to make thecommitment for, in a lot of
situations, to get a booth foran event, and you know, booth
(34:13):
setup doesn't have to beexpensive.
Get creative, do multi-levels,you know, have some fun, you
know, and give people anopportunity to come and sit and
talk with you.
And you're going to find that,even if those people don't
necessarily connect with you ina way where they become a client
(34:33):
or a customer, someone thatthey know will, because they're
going to talk about you andthey're going to talk about
their experience with you, onlyworking online and only being an
online presence.
That I think we're sooversaturated that people are
(34:54):
craving like real humanconnection, and the booth is
going to give you that more thananything else, right?
Speaker 2 (35:00):
for sure.
Yes, and also, you know, havingmy certifications framed on my
booth, people are like oh yeah,this is the lady right here.
I'm like what's up, let's dothis.
Oh, that's awesome.
Yeah, and I really think thatbuilding community in person is
important.
You know, and people do likeyou said.
(35:22):
They're craving that humanconnection and I feel like I
mean we all do, you know.
So I feel like that isimportant to be able to show up
in community and even though itmight make you a little nervous,
uh, before you do it, you'll bereally happy that you did
afterwards, you know.
Speaker 1 (35:41):
So yeah, no, I agree, I often, um, uh, you know I'll
I'll like totally psych myselfout.
I get so nervous.
I really really have horrible,horrible, like stage fright and
it's just funny.
But once I start I'm okay, likeonce the first person comes and
ask something and I have ananswer for it or I don't, and I
(36:02):
tell them where to go find theanswer then I'm like, oh, it's
okay.
So it's like you can get over,you know it's just like.
It's just, you know, like goingto you know an event the first
time and so do you participatein, like your local chamber of
commerce or anything like thator, you know, to help promote
your business.
You know being out in the world, or do you do you find that
(36:23):
other things work better for you?
Speaker 2 (36:25):
You know I'm not really a political individual.
I don't really try to getinvolved in groups so much.
I do work with some people whoare business owners, but I kind
of like to keep it on that level.
I feel like I know my limitsright now.
(36:46):
As a mother of three, I don'twant to put too much on my plate
.
Maybe one day I could expandthat and I'm open to doing that,
but for right now I'm prettycontent with the amount of
workload that I have.
Speaker 1 (37:00):
So fair enough, right ?
I mean, we all have our limits,and the thing is, is that if
we're, if it's so, if we'retelling people to take care of
themselves, right, and then wedon't ever stop, right?
You know that's not, that's nota good place to be.
Sometimes you just need to rolldown the hill, you know, and
(37:21):
have a good time, or go swimmingin the middle of the day, or,
you know, drive your car alittle bit too fast on a
mountain road you know, whateveryour jam is, you know,
sometimes you just need to do ityeah yeah, well, you probably
definitely aren't just likejumping in the water in the
middle of the day because youguys have gators.
Speaker 2 (37:40):
I heard you're running a zigzag and uh, throws
them off a little bit.
That's what they told me when Iwas a kid, anyway.
Speaker 1 (37:45):
So I, you know, when we lived in Florida we lived um
on an island and so that's therunning joke in the family was
you didn't have to outrun thegator, you just had to outrun
mom.
So the kids thought that onewas pretty funny.
But but I read to just run asfast as you can in a straight
(38:09):
line oh, did you?
Speaker 2 (38:10):
okay?
Speaker 1 (38:10):
yeah, so that's what I heard, because they they have
like a burst of like 30 mile anhour action and I know I'm gonna
run faster in a straight linethan this.
Speaker 2 (38:20):
I'll probably trip in my dance go clogs or something
you know but uh, yeah, okay no,no gators on that, because that
was some 90s wisdom right there,so we're gonna update that too
yeah, but I would definitelymaybe use the google because I
could be wrong.
Speaker 1 (38:39):
But uh, no, I mean, uh, where you live is just so
beautiful.
I'm definitely I love that partof the country.
I I just I love.
It's funny because I think Ilove every place that I see, but
there's very few places thatI'd want to stay for a long term
(38:59):
, and that's one of the placesin the country where, if my
family was nearby, I woulddefinitely put on my list.
I know my husband loves thatpart of the country and so you
definitely are surrounded bysome of the best beauty in the
nation.
So I will say I'm a littlejelly.
Speaker 2 (39:20):
The food.
You can't beat it anywhere.
You know I lived in Californiaand ate for eight years and
actually lived there when I tookyour programs and I lived in
Arizona and you know you justreally you can't beat the food
here.
It's delicious.
Speaker 1 (39:35):
No, you can't, you really can't.
And the music.
So I mean I love, I love Zydecoand bluegrass and Cajun music.
So I definitely Americana.
I love the music down there too.
So that's always fun.
But wow, you just uh, you justdo so much in your community and
(39:57):
so much connection work andoffering the retreats and having
a business.
What do you do to relax?
Speaker 2 (40:06):
You know, uh, I like to write.
I do write to relax.
I like to read like fiction torelax because I feel like I find
myself so often reading likescientific information that it's
like nice to unplug and bringmyself kind of to a different
space.
Speaker 1 (40:23):
I hear you.
I do that.
I'm so bad.
I'm like the cozy mystery queen.
I used to read like moreintense mysteries and then I got
to a certain age and I was like, just tell me that the cat did
it.
So I hear you about that.
Speaker 2 (40:40):
Yeah, I um speaking of writing, you know, whenever I
was um a student at your school, we are part of uh, finishing
the certifications.
There is writing studentarticles, and I remember I wrote
one called Mothering with Herbs, and Demetria published that on
the website and that was thefirst time that you know
(41:01):
anything I wrote had, you know,been on a public platform and I
was just so excited and thatbuilt confidence, that
encouraged me and then, you know, I started following um this
really wonderful organizationcalled herbalists without
borders and they love them.
Yes, they've recently started.
(41:22):
Um, I believe it's a quarterlymagazine and uh, so I saw their
requests for submissions and soI went through what the
different it wasn't.
It was a different article.
This one was about.
I did one for tapping into thediversity of starting, of seed
(41:45):
starting, but it was the herbalconnection to soil fertility.
That was the first article thatI submitted to them.
I did rewrite it quite a bitbecause it had been a few years
since I had written it and myknowledge had expanded.
So I did redo the article.
But I thought it was reallycool that Heart of Herbs kind of
(42:07):
gave me that footwork like hey,hey, you know you are capable
of writing an article and youshould believe in yourself and
really go for it, even thoughyou're not an English major or
didn't go to school for writingarticles.
You know it's like if you cankind of just carve out that
space for yourself and believein yourself, it's really
(42:28):
incredible the diversity of whatwe can accomplish, you know.
Speaker 1 (42:35):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
I think part of the thing, thereason why we have some of those
activities is I really stronglybelieve that herbalism is.
As an herbalist, you often aretaken out of your comfort zone
and a lot of people have majorblocks about communicating
through writing.
(42:55):
And I think that it's sopowerful when I see the student
articles, because just thebreadth of what students write
about, I mean like you knowyou're talking to.
You're talking talking aboutsoil, fertility and the
connection to herbalism andparenting.
I mean, those are like you knowherbs, for you know parents,
and they're two massivelydifferent places, but herbs is
(43:19):
what connects them all, andwriting about that and sharing
that information, I think it'sjust so vital and so important
because I think it's people needto understand that I mean and
that's one of the reasons why Ihave the podcast is that
herbalism is just like you.
You don't have to conform toherbalism.
(43:39):
Herbalism will fit into yourspace, your life, just the way
you are.
You don't have to changeanything.
You don't have to suddenly wearwool socks and Birkenstocks or
anything like that.
You can.
You can be whoever you want tobe and still be an herbalist,
and I love that.
You you shared that the writingwas was good for you that way
and I really appreciate that.
Speaker 2 (44:02):
Yeah, it's.
Um, it was definitely veryencouraging.
I mean I I know I said it a fewmoments ago, but when I saw
Mothering with Herbs publishedon the school website, I was
just like, girl, you betterstart believing in yourself.
You can do things, you know,and I feel like part of herbs
gives people an opportunity toreally discover the vastness of
(44:26):
what they're capable of.
And you know, like how diverseyour mind can really work.
And, um, you know you can turnworking in the garden and you
know you can be a gardenherbalist and do herb walks and
talk about how soil fertility isconnected to herbalism and what
herbs can be used as naturalfertilizers, you know, and then
(44:47):
you can go in your garden andpick some herbs and dry them out
and then make medicine with it.
It really is.
You know it could take up allof your time if you, if you let
it, you know.
It's just it's really great.
Speaker 1 (45:02):
Oh, thank you so much .
I'm totally over here likewiping my eyes and everything.
I love that.
I love that.
Well, I love that you sharedthat.
I really appreciate that.
Thank you, because I thinksometimes, when you've been
doing work for a long time, youforget that you know that
sometimes it isn't just work.
So I love that and I agree withyou, it's.
(45:29):
You know, we have students fromall different walks of life and
it doesn't just have to be whatyou think an herbalist is.
And I love when and I'm notsure if this was you, but we've
had students who are like,coming to the program, they're
like I want to learn aboutherbalism for this Right, I only
(45:49):
am interested in like thisaspect of herbalism.
And then they're like pivot,pivot, pivot, pivot, pivot.
And then they're like oh, thisis what I meant to do and I am.
You know, this is it.
I'm an herbal writer or I'monly in.
I'm like I want to be like theworld's best tincture maker.
And before they were like no,no, I only want to do teas.
And I think that's the greatthing, because, as you're on
(46:17):
your journey, it's totally coolto like pivot and change.
And so what are some ways thatyou've pivoted from your
original thoughts of what, whator how you wanted to be as an
herbalist, like how did thingschange for you as you went along
your road?
Speaker 2 (46:38):
so, um, you know, at the beginning of my herbal
journey, um, I, I am not a oneperson or one thing kind of
person.
I really am, aquarius.
I really, like you, know manydifferent paths, you know
leading and walking each one tosee where it's gonna go.
So I really started my herbaljourney with herbalism.
But I signed up for youraromatherapist certification
first because I didn't knowanything about it, you know, and
that interested me.
So it's almost that point oflike I don't even know anything,
(47:01):
so I want to learn.
You know, and um, and one waythat I've pivoted through being
an aromatherapist and anherbalist is kind of learning
when to share my information,you know, kind of manifesting
the situations where I'm needed,versus kind of trying to say
(47:26):
hello, family member, like Iheard you have this issue, I'm
going to tell you that you needthis, or I bought these herbs
for you.
You know, I that's that was abig shift for me was kind of not
trying to push what I waslearning on other people, but
just more like doing my studiesand continuing my education and
(47:48):
allowing situations to kind ofcome to me.
Allowing situations to kind ofcome to me, you know, by making
myself available, but not likein a forceful or you know, an
annoying sort of way, which Iwas.
I was younger, was in my early20s, and I was really excited
about the information.
I didn't mean to be pushybecause I was just like, wow,
(48:10):
there's such an alternative formof natural healing out there,
like I feel like people need toknow about this.
But I feel like the reality isis that people will come to you,
you know, once you get rootedin your aromatherapy or
herbalism or whatever you knownatural healing stance you like
to take.
Speaker 1 (48:31):
Yeah, isn't that true ?
Like the second you stance youlike to take?
Yeah, that isn't that true.
Like the second you, you let goand the door, the door starts
to open.
It's like people find you, evensometimes in the grocery store,
and they just like starttalking to you about their
whatever, and you're like thisis a full store.
Why me?
(48:52):
People like find you.
Or or you're out with yourfather-in-law and he's like why
do these old guys come up to youand just talk about their
prostate?
And I'm like I don't know, Igot that vibe, I guess you know,
like because that's happenedmore than once with him when
we've been out, and he's like Ijust I must have that face Right
.
But I think the thing is, isit's so true, Once you, once you
(49:17):
stop looking, you know, and youjust, okay, I'm going to buckle
down, I'm going to do my stuff.
The people find you and theyjust don't stop finding you.
And it's fabulous because youget to meet some of the most
interesting people in the world,but it definitely it's a big
(49:44):
one to just you know, becauseyou do want to share everything
that you learn with the peoplethat you love, because you want
to feel it too.
And then sometimes you know,sometimes the people that you
love are the slowest to comearound Right Ask, you know.
So I think it's cool that youbring that up because you know I
know there's got to be otherstudents out there who feel like
my family or are not excitedfor me, and you know and it's
like, ah, that's just family,it's just family.
Speaker 2 (50:03):
You know, don't worry about it, they'll get there you
know, I think one importantthing that I would like to share
as well is that you know, whenI was a student at Heart of
Herbs Herbal School, demetriaoffers extensions on finishing
your certification, and I askedfor extensions for both of my
certifications because I have afamily and we run a separate
(50:28):
business outside of herbalism,you know, and so sometimes I
feel like I might hit a wall andI need to put my books down for
a month or something like that,because I'm a little burnt out.
But I encourage everyone to justkeep going, because I think
that's why you offer extensions,because you understand that
life happens and it's reallyjust continuously putting one
(50:51):
foot in front of the other,cause there were certainly times
where I thought, you know,maybe I'm not cut out for this,
maybe I can't accomplish this,you know, and I just pushed
myself just a little bit.
Once I gave myself time to restand, you know, I did it and
it's, I feel, like that's acommon thing.
So I would just suggest to allthe students just keep going and
take breaks, you know?
Speaker 1 (51:13):
Yeah, I agree, I mean you can only get saturated with
so much information.
Even if you adore what you'relearning about or you're like
I've been waiting my whole lifeto learn about this, you can,
you know, just overwhelmyourself really easily.
I think, and this is probablytrue in your case too I think
students who are you know, andthis is probably true in your
(51:44):
case too I think students who,are you know, want to do really,
really well, will sometimestalk themselves out of like it.
You know, like well, I'm notgoing to turn this in if it's
not perfect.
And I'm not sure if you everfelt like that or or, and I'm
always like look, you know, turnit in even if it's not perfect.
It's not perfect, we can figureout where, where, what's
missing.
But I hate, I hate when umstudents psych themselves out
because we don't it at heart ofherbs.
We don't live in this system ofpass fail, like traditional
(52:05):
education.
And but I think, coming fromthe traditional education, a lot
of students were like I don'twant to turn it, it's not
perfect.
I want.
Speaker 2 (52:12):
You know, I want all a hundred percents.
I hear that all the time.
Speaker 1 (52:14):
I want all a hundred percent, so like you can go back
and retake it and get your ahundred percent.
But let's figure out what'sgoing on before you, or I'm just
going to give up because Ican't do it.
And and uh, I'm really glad thatyou brought that up because it
is a and that you can take yourtime and you can put your
children first and your familyfirst, or whatever is going on
(52:37):
at the time.
If you know, during COVID wehad a lot of students who were
like I need to take a break.
There's all this stuff going on, or my parent is sick, my, my
husband is sick, or whatever.
I'm like, take, like, take it.
You know, absolutely take it.
And I think that that's maybemissing from a lot of our world
(52:59):
is just being able to take thetime and the space for when we,
when we just need it.
Sometimes we all need a break,right, even if we love what
we're learning.
We just sometimes need a break.
So I'm glad that you broughtthat up.
Speaker 2 (53:13):
Definitely, and I feel like it's a really great
point that she made about, like,the saturation of information,
because it is so much.
Heart of herbs is so detailedin their curriculum and it is a
lot of information.
You know, you can go throughone section or like a half of a
section and it is just so muchinformation.
(53:34):
It takes a little bit of timeto digest and process that you
know.
So, yeah, just take breaks andkeep going when you can.
Speaker 1 (53:43):
Oh, I love that advice, so I think a lot of
other students would reallyappreciate that.
So we've kept you for almost anhour now, so I should probably
let you go and get back to yourlife.
But I wanted to just say thankyou so much for joining us and
for sharing and giving suchgreat advice about connecting
(54:05):
with community, especially forother herbalists out there.
So just thank you for sharingthat experience.
I think that's really importantand I think a lot of people are
going to be inspired by that.
So thank you.
Speaker 2 (54:19):
You're very welcome and thank you so much for having
me.
It's been a delight to talk toyou today.
Speaker 1 (54:25):
Oh thanks.
Oh, one thing real quick whenyou get that website up and
running, let's reconnect and youcan give us an update and tell
us how things are going.
Speaker 2 (54:34):
Oh, I would love to do that.
Thank you, I will Thank you somuch.
Speaker 1 (54:38):
You have a great day.
All right, you too, thanks.
Hi, this is Demetra Clark, the director of Heart of
Herbs Herbal School, and today,on the Heart of Herbs Herbal
School podcast, we're speakingto Victoria Phoenix.
Victoria is a graduate of Heartof Herbs and she's also doing
all kinds of really coolconnection work out in the
(00:24):
herbal in the healing world, andso I want to welcome Victoria
to our podcast today.
Welcome.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
Victoria.
Thank you, Demetria.
I appreciate that I'm so happyto be here with you.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
Oh well, thank you, we appreciate it.
We love to hear from graduatesabout what they're doing, so I'm
going to ask you a fewquestions about like what
they're doing.
So I'm going to ask you a fewquestions about like you know
what got you to where you aretoday, so what originally drew
you to herbalism as a path?
Speaker 2 (00:52):
I was drawn to herbalism.
I walked the cancer path withmy mother in high school and I
saw how Western medicine works.
And although I do think thatWestern medicine certainly has
its place in the healing world,I felt that there could be more
to healing and perhaps morepreventative ways to keep our
(01:15):
body in alignment with healththroughout our life.
So when I found out aboutherbalism, I found your school,
and that's when I startedsigning up for certifications.
Speaker 1 (01:26):
Oh, that's cool.
Well, it's not cool how youoriginally got introduced to
herbalism.
It's cool that you decided tostudy with us, and I always
really appreciate that.
But walking the path withsomeone who has cancer I know
I've done this a few timesmyself with people that I love
it's really hard work, and youalmost have to learn a new
(01:48):
language.
So then bringing the herbalworld language into it also must
have been really challenging.
So I really applaud you fortaking that on and navigating
those two worlds with yourmother.
Thank, you.
Speaker 2 (02:05):
I appreciate that.
Speaker 1 (02:07):
So what is one of the major aspects of herbalism that
resonates with you the most orthat you feel like really
connects you with your work in away that you didn't expect?
Speaker 2 (02:25):
really connects you with your work in a way that you
didn't expect.
So even though I started off inreally folk herbalism, through
my education I became rooted inthe scientific aspect of it and
that was surprising to me.
To really learn how you knowthe chemical constituents of
herbs work with the chemistry ofthe human body and the learning
it was.
It's really like a puzzle, um,and just learning how everything
(02:49):
connected and um, yeah it.
I feel like I'm always astudent of that and you know
we'll always be learning aboutthat well, I agree with you.
Speaker 1 (03:00):
I always feel like there's something you.
I always learn stuff fromstudents as they're going
through or they help me adjustmy perspective.
So do you find that when you'reworking with clients, that you
enjoy the clients that umchallenge you and make you think
about herbalism in a differentway?
Or or are you just over that?
Speaker 2 (03:24):
So, honestly, I do what I specialize in with a lot
of people because I live here inthe South, in South Louisiana,
and most people are onpharmaceuticals.
So through my clinical masterherbalist certification that I
took through Heart of Herbs, Ilearned the importance of
finding like contraindicationsand drug and herbal interactions
(03:47):
.
So I feel like I find thatthat's a lot of the work that I
do to help people be safewhenever they're taking herbs,
which is probably one of themost challenging aspects of it,
because there's a lot ofresearch that's involved with
that.
Speaker 1 (04:02):
Oh yeah, definitely definitely.
Speaker 2 (04:04):
And it's.
Speaker 1 (04:04):
I mean Southern Louisiana.
There's, um, I mean, there's somany cool plants that you come
into contact with, but alsothere's so many cool ways that
you can include herbs and thingslike food and just the diet
there the spices in Louisianajust lends itself to like
(04:27):
creating the most healing foods.
Do you ever find that you arehelping people with herbs
through their diet and tweakingrecipes to give them, you know,
more nourishing?
Like I live in the South and so, like you know, I'm always
talking to people about like,yeah, when you do your greens,
like add more dandelion or addmore chickweed, or you know, I
(04:49):
like to bring the herbs intosome of our regional recipes Do
you find that you do that?
Speaker 2 (04:55):
Absolutely.
I chickweed and cleavers andthings like that Dandelion
things that we find commonlyoutside just growing in the wild
dandelion things that we findcommonly outside just growing in
the wild.
You know, I really encouragepeople to make broths and things
like that for their soup, soit's like they have a stock
ready that has medicinalbenefits in it.
(05:16):
Actually, I'm almost done witha nutrition degree from Sierra
College and so nutrition isdefinitely part of my studies
and you know, going to schoolfor nutrition and having to take
, you know, anatomy andphysiology really expanded my
understanding of how herbs workwith the body.
(05:39):
So I'm glad I'm doing thatbecause it helps fill in those
spaces that I wasn't reallyaware of.
You know every how everythingworked, so yeah, that's really
cool.
Speaker 1 (05:50):
I didn't know you were adding nutrition to your
your vast portfolio portfolio.
We'll talk about that a littlebit more.
But what is one of the?
I mean, are you having a lot offun working with nutritional
herbs now that you have, like adifferent perspective from your
nutritional program, and are youconstantly like thinking about
new ways?
That I know.
(06:10):
When I went and did some of mynutrition studies.
I was like oh my gosh, I cantotally tweak everything around
me now, Like I'm putting stuffin baby food for the kids and
like you know, all kinds of funstuff.
Speaker 2 (06:25):
Well, it's interesting because, going to
nutrition school, you haveaccess to the dietitian records
for, like, how they categorizefood and things like that.
And what I noticed is that I wasadding a lot to the library of
information because there is alot of information missing about
(06:46):
natural, like plants beingnutritious, growing in the area.
So that was kind of a funchallenge that I gave myself to
help add in things to kind ofnormalize the use, and so, if
you know, a nutritionist was onthe database and wanted to look
up a plant, you know if the morewe add, the more information
becomes common knowledge, youknow.
(07:08):
So, yeah, as far as includingnutrition and nutritious herbs,
I do help people a little bitwith their diets when I do
consults, but I mainly focus onmaking medicine through the form
of extracts and tinctures andalso skincare, and I'm also I
(07:29):
have I'm a mother of threechildren, so I've made my
children's medicine since theywere born and for the most part,
kept them out of the doctor'soffice because of that, and I
enjoy working with mothers whowant to know a more natural way
to help heal their children.
I really enjoy, you know,making extracts and talking to
(07:51):
people about how those work.
Speaker 1 (07:53):
Oh, wow, that's awesome.
So tell us about your businessand where people can find you
and the type of products thatyou sell, and maybe, like, just
tell us a little bit about someof your more popular products
too, if you don't mind.
Speaker 2 (08:08):
Oh sure, so I own Sunflower Alchemy.
I, like I said, I makeextractsures that I feel like is
really, um, a lot of people can, uh, benefit from.
It is cat's claw bark, which isa vine that is native to Peru.
(08:31):
They call it cat's claw barkbecause it has thorns that look
like cat's claws on there, but,um, it's a very powerful
antiviral.
Um, you know, the physician'sdesk referencebal Medicines is a
really great book, because wehave scientifically backed
studies in that book and one ofthe things that that book talks
about is how HIV patients havehad success with cat's claw bark
(08:56):
, how it stimulates thelymphatic system to produce
macrophages, which are the cellsthat eat cancer cells in the
body.
So it goes after things likelymphoma.
It's been proven to bebeneficial against breast cancer
and also tumors in the brain,and it's also a very powerful
antiviral as well.
(09:17):
So anyone who has like gout orarthritis or any inflammation in
the joints and things like that, it helps to lessen the
stiffness in the joints and kindof break down those crystals
that form in those joints sothat we can move more fluidly.
And yeah, I really that's oneof my favorite tinctures that I
(09:38):
work with.
Another tincture that I like tomake for children especially.
I call it my calm and focusblend.
It has chamomile and oats andlemon balm in it, and it's a
really great alternative forchildren who struggle with like
ADHD or ADD tendencies, calmthem and ground them while also
(10:06):
toning their digestive systemand also keeping them healthy
while they're in a schoolenvironment, because we have
antiviral properties andantimicrobial properties in that
as well, and I've heard a lotof good feedback from mothers on
how that tincture works.
Speaker 1 (10:18):
Yeah, those are great herbs for kids.
It's almost like I always whenI think about like working with
herbs with children, I alwaysthink of like filling in what's
missing, not that there'ssomething wrong with their body,
you know what I mean.
Like it's like kids are.
I always kind of view kids aslike being born perfect.
You're perfect just the way youare Right.
(10:39):
But sometimes environmentalfactors, lifestyle, you know,
some kids have, you know,deficiencies or they're
differently abled, and itdoesn't mean they're not perfect
, it just means there's thingsthat we can do to help them out.
And I love that.
How herbs kind of fill in thosegaps so well for little kids.
(11:09):
It's like, um, it I almost, likeI used to, almost like I would
almost say to my kids hey, youknow what, everyone's coming
down with a cold.
We're gonna do whatever tea orsomething.
And like their bodies wouldstart to respond to the threat
of the tea before they even hadto drink it.
You know like it would be like,oh, the tea's coming start, you
know, let's start our littleimmune systems.
Like mama's going to give usthis stuff.
And I had one kid who would wasokay with taking anything and
(11:31):
the other kid I'd have to belike just pound it, just pound
it, get it in your system, getit over with.
But it was almost like their,their bodies, when they're
exposed to herbs.
I almost feel like they.
They start to know how to adaptbefore the herb even comes in.
So it kind of opens up wherethe puzzle piece needs to go.
Speaker 2 (11:49):
Do you?
Speaker 1 (11:50):
feel that way sometimes with kids, Cause I
know you work a lot with withyoung families.
Speaker 2 (11:55):
I do for sure, and even you know, on that note,
like sometimes I'll do like alittle herb walk or something
like that, and you know you seethe children interact with
plants and you can, you can seean exchange right then you know,
um, how it kind of captivatesthem.
It's also almost like wheneverthe plant medicine or you know
gets in their aura, it's like avibrational shift occurs.
(12:18):
You know, which is really coolto watch.
Speaker 1 (12:22):
Yeah, I feel like there's definitely like an
energy exchange with children.
It's almost like I'm just goingto sound goofy but, it's almost
like the earth is likebreastfeeding kids.
They just kind of like justbeing in proximity to, like when
a baby is just in the proximityof their, their breastfeeding
(12:45):
parent, right, right, andthey're exposed to something the
milk is already starting toadapt.
And I kind of feel like plantsand the earth kind of have that
relationship with kids, to kindof that connection that as
adults we just lose unless wework really hard to maintain it
or make a focused, you know wefocus on how do we maintain this
(13:10):
, this cyclical relationshipbetween us and the planet?
And I just feel like kids arelike, you know, let us get dirty
, let us roll around in theplants and we're going to be
okay.
Speaker 2 (13:23):
I love that.
Yes, for sure.
I think that a lot of children,you know, they're much more
open.
We get programmed, you know,the more that we grow up and,
like you said, as an adult itwas, I had to kind of rediscover
myself and my connection withthe earth to be able to really,
you know, understand herbalism.
It wasn't just studying thescience of it or whatever.
(13:46):
It was really, you know, a full, a well-rounded, you know,
connection that had differentfacets of how I needed to change
the way I thought to be able tofully connect with plant
medicine.
Speaker 1 (14:00):
Yeah, no, I definitely, I definitely get
that.
Yeah, no, I definitely, Idefinitely get that.
So when you say that you, youknow you can feel the or see the
or sense the auric kind ofshift around kids when they're
with plants, I'm like I get it,I totally get it, I love it, I
love it.
So where can people find yourproducts?
Speaker 2 (14:18):
so, um, I have an Instagram it's called sunflower
underscore alchemy, and I'm alsoon Facebook as Victoria Phoenix
and um, I'm working on awebsite right now.
It's not quite done yet, but,um, I do have a menu that I
offer people once we connectthrough messenger and email and
things like that.
Speaker 1 (14:38):
So, oh, that's awesome.
And when?
So when you have your website,let us know so we can go back
and edit the show bio, so it'llbe in there for everyone who
listens to you later and they'llbe able to find you.
Speaker 2 (14:54):
Awesome, I will definitely do that.
Speaker 1 (14:55):
Thank you, yeah, so you've studied at a lot of
different places.
So where, where did you studyherbalism?
I mean, I know you studiedheart of herbs.
What drew you to a heart ofherbs initially?
Speaker 2 (15:10):
Well, I always say that Rosemary Gladstar is the
grandmother of modern dayherbalism, and so, of course,
that was my first book, which Ibelieve she was your, one of
your teachers, oh yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:23):
I adore her.
She's a great human being.
For me, being a good herbalistis important.
I also want you to be like adecent human being.
So she definitely takes both ofthose boxes, because I'm not a
very good fan girl, you knowlike.
I'm not someone who's like, oh,I'm just not like that, right,
(15:43):
I don't know what's wrong withme, I just missed that thing.
But she's definitely a personthat I can look at and say
decent human being, excellentherbalist, and those are two
things that are so important tome.
Speaker 2 (15:56):
Yeah, that's where I started was with one of her
books, and I can definitely saythat um of her books.
And I can definitely say thatreading books has made me rooted
in being an herbalist.
Like I just can't express howimportant it is and having all
those herbal books on yourbookshelf, because you might not
be able to remember everysingle thing that you read, but
(16:17):
you know where it is in thatbook.
So through years of going backto reference, you know your
brain starts to kind of memorizewhat you've read many times.
So then whenever you startworking with other people I work
with a few men, but I mostlywork with women it seems like
women are a lot more drawn toherbalism and that's kind of
(16:38):
just who comes through thefloodgates for me, for me, and
so when I work with them and I'mable to reference the
information from books that Iread, it really it helps me to
connect with them and it kind ofcomes out in a clear way
because it's published and Ifeel like, because books are
(16:59):
published, it's a much moredependable resource of
information for herbs versusjust Googling everything you
know.
So I highly recommend readingthose books and building up your
herbal library.
It's very important.
Speaker 1 (17:15):
Oh, I completely agree about you know.
I mean, my herbal bookshelf isnine or ten feet tall I'm
looking at it right now andabout five feet wide, like just,
and that's just the books Ihave in my office, and it's like
sometimes it's not even the actof necessarily reading them,
(17:36):
it's knowing that they're there,it's like a nice warm blanket,
you know, like, okay, they'rethere.
If I need them, they're there.
Or if I just sometimes I justwant to like open one and like
read what so-and-so says aboutthis issue, and even if it's not
the same perspective that Ihave or I would never use those
(17:59):
herbs, it's.
It's so good to see thedifferent types of herbalism and
the different paths thatherbalists take, because I think
sometimes we get so focused onno, it's this herb for this, and
it's only practice herbalismthis way and you can, only you
know, and it's like no, no, no.
It's like it would be likesaying there's only one way to
make a loaf of bread.
(18:20):
Right, you know, I, and so Ithink it's it's.
I think it's awesome that youhave books at your disposal and
that you really feel thatthey're an important part of
your educational and connectionprocess with clients, because
you do a lot of connection workin your community too, right,
(18:40):
yes, I do.
Speaker 2 (18:41):
I love working with my community.
And just a little tip of how totap into your community I would
recommend going to localmarkets and going to your local
farmers markets.
I have met so many people thatI have started business
relationships with who I met ata market.
(19:04):
You know I have a niceapothecary in my opinion but I
don't have the time to.
You know, extract mushroommedicine, or really, you know it
can become a very the dualextraction.
You know it can become a veryscientific process and I work
with myocentrics in Baton Rouge.
Her name is Jordan Gross.
(19:25):
She graduated from LSU, she isan agricultural and biological
engineer and her mushroommedicine is in my apothecary.
Because I know that it's toomuch for me to try to do
everything and I need to be outto my community to kind of fill
those holes that I can find inmy apothecary.
(19:48):
And not only have I gone tomarkets, I've also put on events
.
I just did an event in April ata place called the Nola Castle
that's in New Orleans, and I hadmy friend Dr Effie Br Branton,
who studied Ayurveda in India.
She came in and taught aworkshop to people about the
(20:09):
introduction to Ayurveda.
And then my friend Jordan ofMycocentrics, who I just
commented about.
She taught a mushroom class onforaging and how the medicinal
properties work.
So it can really become amultifaceted thing where not
only are people coming to aplace where they can find
(20:30):
natural remedies, and thingslike that, but we can also hold
space for people to learn andexpand their knowledge, which I
feel like is really important.
Speaker 1 (20:39):
Oh, definitely, I think that farmers are the
coolest like farmers, markets.
I love them, just love the vibe, the feeling of them.
Being married to a farmermyself, I definitely think that
connecting with farming isincredible.
And now, so when I say farmer,I should clarify that my husband
(21:02):
is a small scale farmer we'renot producing like anything
really big scale but theconnection with the community is
amazing and I do agree it's agreat place to make those really
necessary local threads thathold and bind us all together
(21:24):
and make us a community,especially when it comes to
healing, because farmers arealways looking for value added
crops, even small scale.
And so, as an herbalist, ifyou're like, hey, I'm really
looking for a farmer who wantsto do like a five year like
commitment with me on growingsome of these more protected
plants.
There's farmers out there whohave a few acres that can't be
(21:48):
used for traditional crops andthat they may be really
interested, especially ifthey're organic farmers or
permaculture.
They may really be interestedin helping farmers, helping
herbalists excuse me, you knowconnect with with growing some
of these more protected plantsin the United States.
So we protect the naturalenvironment and you know we can
(22:10):
still have a stock of them.
So I just love that you broughtup the connection with with
farmers and farmers markets andI would love to.
So where do people learn aboutyour retreats?
Speaker 2 (22:24):
So I work for a company called Cornerstone
Counseling.
They have a website.
It's Cornerstone Counseling,and I just did a retreat in
Louisiana.
I'll be traveling to Costa Ricain October with them and I'll
be doing an herbal workshop.
I also practice sound therapy.
I play the gong and bowls fromNepal, and so it's a very
(22:48):
multifaceted set of tools, thatis, that are being, you know,
made available for people tolearn about how to naturally
heal their bodies in manydifferent ways, you know.
Speaker 1 (23:03):
I love that, so it's cornerstonecounselingcom.
Speaker 2 (23:11):
Um, I can send you the link after.
Okay, that's great.
Speaker 1 (23:14):
That's great Because I would really love people to be
able to, you know, sign up foryour retreats if they want to.
So, where do you find that youget the most encouragement as an
herbalist?
Speaker 2 (23:29):
the most encouragement.
As an herbalist, I feel likewhenever, you know, when my
children were I have a six monthold, but whenever my so I'm
nursing, so I don't really haveto worry about giving her
glycerins or things like thatbecause my immune system takes
care of it.
But watching my childrenrespond to herbal glycerin and
(23:52):
watching it work and watchingyou know something that could
have been a much longer sicknessdisappear in a couple of days
was very encouraging to me.
I've helped quite a few womenwho were having fertility issues
have babies through, you know,herbs that balance the hormone
and also like vaginal steamingand things like that and changes
(24:15):
to the diet and working ontheir liver, you know, because
we have to balance our liverbefore, you know, our hormones
can really come into balance.
So watching these women whobefore were having a lot of
issues getting pregnant and thenwe got I got them on a regimen
and then they they got pregnantand then they had a healthy baby
, I mean that's that was prettyencouraging.
Speaker 1 (24:37):
I'd say yeah, I would say that too.
That's pretty awesome.
I love that.
I remember the first time Ifound out that someone I had
helped with some fertility stuffhad named their, their baby
after me, and I thought that wasso cool.
They didn't tell me.
Someone else told me like, oh,by the way, they said they named
(24:58):
their baby and I was just like,oh, my gosh, there's two of us
out there.
So I think it is really coolwhen we can help people, you
know, become families and yeah,that's really beautiful.
So, wow, you do a lot of stuff,you are a community resource.
(25:20):
Definitely Like, how cool isthat?
Speaker 2 (25:24):
And I wanted to mention also another way to tap
into you know your community is.
If you to tap into you knowyour community is if you, you
know, go to a shop and maybethey have like a nice amount of
herbs and um, and you're anherbalist or you're just
starting out in herbalism,connect with those shop owners,
you know, um, it's not us versusthem, it really takes everyone
(25:45):
connecting and no one's going tohave your edge.
And one of the things that Iwill always remember, when I
took my certification with you,one of the things you said in
one of your lectures was keepyour head in your own game.
And I have repeated that tomyself countless times.
You know it's not.
We don't have to get jealous.
(26:06):
You know, like, there's thesebeautiful women that work in an
apothecary called Soul Rootshere in Baton Rouge and I
connected with them and you knownow my medicine is available at
their store and we do ask anherbalist day and I'll be there
for five hours, or ask acertified aromatherapist day and
I'll go there and dopersonalized blends for people
(26:28):
and stuff like that.
So you can really want, if youconnect with people who maybe
are a little bit, you know,further along in the success of
their business.
You can help each other.
It doesn't have to be us versusthem, you know.
So I think that's important.
Speaker 1 (26:45):
Oh, I love that you brought that up.
That's always been.
That's always been aninteresting thing in relation to
business and and businessdevelopment.
And a lot of people come toherbalism saying they want a
business, but then they're like,oh, but I I don't know if I
want to be in business, you know.
(27:08):
And then they, and then they'llget worried and they're like
I'm checking their, theirwebsite, they added this product
and this product.
And I'm like whoa, slow down,like why do you care?
And they're like what?
You know, because we do.
We do have the ability toaccess so much of our quote
(27:29):
competitors information all thetime.
So it's really easy to spendfive hours worrying about what
someone else is doing instead ofbeing like, hey, what is it
that we're doing?
What are we bringing to thetable?
And I always think it's funnybecause people be like, well,
how does your course compare tosomeone else's?
And I'm like I have no idea andI feel bad.
(27:51):
I feel like I'm not doing my duediligence because I should know
, but I don like I have no ideaand I feel bad.
I feel like I'm not doing mydue diligence because I should
know, but I don't.
I don't because I think wespend so much time in our
culture worrying about whatother people are doing that we
just don't spend enough time onourselves.
And when we really want toconnect with people and we
really want to promote healingright, that is probably not
where we want to be focused ison other people.
We want to promote healingright.
(28:11):
That is probably not where wewant to be focused is on other
people.
We want to be focused on theperson who's in front of us and
the person who needs us.
So I'm really glad that youbrought that up.
Speaker 2 (28:20):
Yeah, I think you know everyone.
There's so many people outthere who are looking for
alternative forms of healing,you know, and we have just this
wealth of knowledge at ourfingertips with our phones and
things like that now.
So, being alternative in youknow your practices of medicine
and things like that, and whatyou take isn't so taboo these
(28:41):
days or you know so left fieldit's becoming.
You know you go to the store tobuy a bag of coffee and there's
mushroom coffee there.
You know which is.
You know in medicinal, hasmedicinal mushrooms in it,
although we know that extractsare, you know, really more of a
potent medicine than you knowyou're not sure the quality of.
You know the dried mushrooms inthe coffee or something like
(29:04):
that, but that's how much it'sout there.
You know.
Speaker 1 (29:07):
Yeah, you can.
You know, you can get.
You know, I guess I guess howto say it you can get your.
You can get your herbal stuffat Walmart if you want it.
You know what I mean.
Like it's like at every boxstore now.
There's brands, and's reallyexciting, but there are
potential quality issues.
I'm glad that you brought thatup.
(29:34):
I always try to source whereeverything came from, and so I
never trust someone who says tome everything that we have is
only here, and you know, we groweverything in Idaho.
And I'm like that's notpossible.
You don't have greenhouses.
There's no way that you'regrowing some South American herb
in Idaho or whatever.
And I'm like that's notpossible.
You don't have greenhouses.
There's no way that you'regrowing some South American herb
in Idaho, or whatever, and I'mjust saying Idaho, I'm just
(29:56):
throwing it out there, I'm nottalking about any specific
business.
So I think it's good that peoplelearn how to source where
things come from, and justbecause we have access doesn't
mean it's always the best, but Ithink it is inspiring because
maybe, if your budget orknowledge base wasn't going to
(30:19):
get you into herbs right away,being able to access these
things in other ways and newways.
I think, is where the seed isplanted for a lot of people.
So they're like they get the,they get the mushroom coffee,
and they're like, oh, this isgreat, I'm feeling some effect.
And then they're like, well, Iheard this brand's better, so
(30:40):
I'm going to try this brand.
And then, well wait, I waslooking it up and I found out
this kind of extract is, but youknow, and then it's like it
just starts this domino effect.
So I'm really happy you broughtthat up, because I think that's
such an important point.
Speaker 2 (30:56):
And you know, just to kind of continue on with that
conversation, but a little bitof a shift in aromatherapy.
You know, whenever I took myaromatherapy certification at
Heart of Herbs, I learned theimportance of, you know, buying
organic essential oils and thattherapeutic grade isn't really a
thing, you know.
(31:16):
They kind of made that up andyou know if someone's trying to
tell you to ingest theseessential oils, they're really
trying probably to make a saleversus actually help with
healing, because we know it'snot safe to ingest essential
oils internally.
So there's, you know there isthings that you have to watch
out for in marketing.
Even though it's great theinformation is getting out there
(31:39):
, it's we definitely research isessential, you know.
Speaker 1 (31:43):
Oh yeah, definitely, and I know I'm going to say this
and people make it annoying,but I've been saying this for
over 20 something years.
You know, mlms are not whereit's at.
It's a way that actually a lotof people, especially in
(32:06):
aromatherapy, come to us foreducation because they're
they're selling MLM products andthey're finding that they don't
have enough information or thatthey accidentally like burnt
somebody or, you know, likewhatever their their thing is
and, um, you know, just learninghow to source your own
ingredients or do the researchon how to find a safe and good
(32:26):
product that you can afford isso much better than getting
yourself involved in some kindof thing where you're making
everyone in your family run awayfrom you when they see you
coming because you want to sellthem something and I, you know
it.
It is really, it is reallyscary, but I'm probably going to
get all the MLM people mad atme, so I should shut up.
Speaker 2 (32:50):
Well, it's funny how you say.
You know, I feel like a lot inthe beginning of herbalism.
I made a lot of medicine forfree, you know, and I kind of
over offered like oh, someonemight say they have an ailment,
and I would kind of try to buttin and say this about herbs or,
you know like make themsomething without them really
asking, and I always was metwith some sort of like energetic
(33:10):
resistance.
You know, like it didn't reallyfeel like a natural flow.
And whenever I took a step backand I finally finished all of
my certifications and myschooling through Heart of Herbs
and I started to get booths atmarkets and things like that and
allowed the space for people tocome to me, I stopped feeling
resistance.
It felt like such a more youknow natural flow.
(33:34):
So it's like sometimes it canbe kind of scary to put yourself
out there and you know, rent abooth but usually they're like
25 or 30 bucks.
You know what do you have tolose?
And you'll actually be amazedat how eager people are to learn
about natural ways in whichthey can help their body.
Speaker 1 (33:53):
Oh, definitely, I think booths are.
Booths are, you know the costof, you know, a nice dinner out
with your partner or you knowfriends, it's like, okay, so
make that you can.
You can find a way to make thecommitment for, in a lot of
situations, to get a booth foran event, and you know, booth
(34:13):
setup doesn't have to beexpensive.
Get creative, do multi-levels,you know, have some fun, you
know, and give people anopportunity to come and sit and
talk with you.
And you're going to find that,even if those people don't
necessarily connect with you ina way where they become a client
(34:33):
or a customer, someone thatthey know will, because they're
going to talk about you andthey're going to talk about
their experience with you, onlyworking online and only being an
online presence.
That I think we're sooversaturated that people are
(34:54):
craving like real humanconnection, and the booth is
going to give you that more thananything else, right?
Speaker 2 (35:00):
for sure.
Yes, and also, you know, havingmy certifications framed on my
booth, people are like oh yeah,this is the lady right here.
I'm like what's up, let's dothis.
Oh, that's awesome.
Yeah, and I really think thatbuilding community in person is
important.
You know, and people do likeyou said.
(35:22):
They're craving that humanconnection and I feel like I
mean we all do, you know.
So I feel like that isimportant to be able to show up
in community and even though itmight make you a little nervous,
uh, before you do it, you'll bereally happy that you did
afterwards, you know.
Speaker 1 (35:41):
So yeah, no, I agree, I often, um, uh, you know I'll
I'll like totally psych myselfout.
I get so nervous.
I really really have horrible,horrible, like stage fright and
it's just funny.
But once I start I'm okay, likeonce the first person comes and
ask something and I have ananswer for it or I don't, and I
(36:02):
tell them where to go find theanswer then I'm like, oh, it's
okay.
So it's like you can get over,you know it's just like.
It's just, you know, like goingto you know an event the first
time and so do you participatein, like your local chamber of
commerce or anything like thator, you know, to help promote
your business.
You know being out in the world, or do you do you find that
(36:23):
other things work better for you?
Speaker 2 (36:25):
You know I'm not really a political individual.
I don't really try to getinvolved in groups so much.
I do work with some people whoare business owners, but I kind
of like to keep it on that level.
I feel like I know my limitsright now.
(36:46):
As a mother of three, I don'twant to put too much on my plate
.
Maybe one day I could expandthat and I'm open to doing that,
but for right now I'm prettycontent with the amount of
workload that I have.
Speaker 1 (37:00):
So fair enough, right ?
I mean, we all have our limits,and the thing is, is that if
we're, if it's so, if we'retelling people to take care of
themselves, right, and then wedon't ever stop, right?
You know that's not, that's nota good place to be.
Sometimes you just need to rolldown the hill, you know, and
(37:21):
have a good time, or go swimmingin the middle of the day, or,
you know, drive your car alittle bit too fast on a
mountain road you know, whateveryour jam is, you know,
sometimes you just need to do ityeah yeah, well, you probably
definitely aren't just likejumping in the water in the
middle of the day because youguys have gators.
Speaker 2 (37:40):
I heard you're running a zigzag and uh, throws
them off a little bit.
That's what they told me when Iwas a kid, anyway.
Speaker 1 (37:45):
So I, you know, when we lived in Florida we lived um
on an island and so that's therunning joke in the family was
you didn't have to outrun thegator, you just had to outrun
mom.
So the kids thought that onewas pretty funny.
But but I read to just run asfast as you can in a straight
(38:09):
line oh, did you?
Speaker 2 (38:10):
okay?
Speaker 1 (38:10):
yeah, so that's what I heard, because they they have
like a burst of like 30 mile anhour action and I know I'm gonna
run faster in a straight linethan this.
Speaker 2 (38:20):
I'll probably trip in my dance go clogs or something
you know but uh, yeah, okay no,no gators on that, because that
was some 90s wisdom right there,so we're gonna update that too
yeah, but I would definitelymaybe use the google because I
could be wrong.
Speaker 1 (38:39):
But uh, no, I mean, uh, where you live is just so
beautiful.
I'm definitely I love that partof the country.
I I just I love.
It's funny because I think Ilove every place that I see, but
there's very few places thatI'd want to stay for a long term
(38:59):
, and that's one of the placesin the country where, if my
family was nearby, I woulddefinitely put on my list.
I know my husband loves thatpart of the country and so you
definitely are surrounded bysome of the best beauty in the
nation.
So I will say I'm a littlejelly.
Speaker 2 (39:20):
The food.
You can't beat it anywhere.
You know I lived in Californiaand ate for eight years and
actually lived there when I tookyour programs and I lived in
Arizona and you know you justreally you can't beat the food
here.
It's delicious.
Speaker 1 (39:35):
No, you can't, you really can't.
And the music.
So I mean I love, I love Zydecoand bluegrass and Cajun music.
So I definitely Americana.
I love the music down there too.
So that's always fun.
But wow, you just uh, you justdo so much in your community and
(39:57):
so much connection work andoffering the retreats and having
a business.
What do you do to relax?
Speaker 2 (40:06):
You know, uh, I like to write.
I do write to relax.
I like to read like fiction torelax because I feel like I find
myself so often reading likescientific information that it's
like nice to unplug and bringmyself kind of to a different
space.
Speaker 1 (40:23):
I hear you.
I do that.
I'm so bad.
I'm like the cozy mystery queen.
I used to read like moreintense mysteries and then I got
to a certain age and I was like, just tell me that the cat did
it.
So I hear you about that.
Speaker 2 (40:40):
Yeah, I um speaking of writing, you know, whenever I
was um a student at your school, we are part of uh, finishing
the certifications.
There is writing studentarticles, and I remember I wrote
one called Mothering with Herbs, and Demetria published that on
the website and that was thefirst time that you know
(41:01):
anything I wrote had, you know,been on a public platform and I
was just so excited and thatbuilt confidence, that
encouraged me and then, you know, I started following um this
really wonderful organizationcalled herbalists without
borders and they love them.
Yes, they've recently started.
(41:22):
Um, I believe it's a quarterlymagazine and uh, so I saw their
requests for submissions and soI went through what the
different it wasn't.
It was a different article.
This one was about.
I did one for tapping into thediversity of starting, of seed
(41:45):
starting, but it was the herbalconnection to soil fertility.
That was the first article thatI submitted to them.
I did rewrite it quite a bitbecause it had been a few years
since I had written it and myknowledge had expanded.
So I did redo the article.
But I thought it was reallycool that Heart of Herbs kind of
(42:07):
gave me that footwork like hey,hey, you know you are capable
of writing an article and youshould believe in yourself and
really go for it, even thoughyou're not an English major or
didn't go to school for writingarticles.
You know it's like if you cankind of just carve out that
space for yourself and believein yourself, it's really
(42:28):
incredible the diversity of whatwe can accomplish, you know.
Speaker 1 (42:35):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
I think part of the thing, thereason why we have some of those
activities is I really stronglybelieve that herbalism is.
As an herbalist, you often aretaken out of your comfort zone
and a lot of people have majorblocks about communicating
through writing.
(42:55):
And I think that it's sopowerful when I see the student
articles, because just thebreadth of what students write
about, I mean like you knowyou're talking to.
You're talking talking aboutsoil, fertility and the
connection to herbalism andparenting.
I mean, those are like you knowherbs, for you know parents,
and they're two massivelydifferent places, but herbs is
(43:19):
what connects them all, andwriting about that and sharing
that information, I think it'sjust so vital and so important
because I think it's people needto understand that I mean and
that's one of the reasons why Ihave the podcast is that
herbalism is just like you.
You don't have to conform toherbalism.
(43:39):
Herbalism will fit into yourspace, your life, just the way
you are.
You don't have to changeanything.
You don't have to suddenly wearwool socks and Birkenstocks or
anything like that.
You can.
You can be whoever you want tobe and still be an herbalist,
and I love that.
You you shared that the writingwas was good for you that way
and I really appreciate that.
Speaker 2 (44:02):
Yeah, it's.
Um, it was definitely veryencouraging.
I mean I I know I said it a fewmoments ago, but when I saw
Mothering with Herbs publishedon the school website, I was
just like, girl, you betterstart believing in yourself.
You can do things, you know,and I feel like part of herbs
gives people an opportunity toreally discover the vastness of
(44:26):
what they're capable of.
And you know, like how diverseyour mind can really work.
And, um, you know you can turnworking in the garden and you
know you can be a gardenherbalist and do herb walks and
talk about how soil fertility isconnected to herbalism and what
herbs can be used as naturalfertilizers, you know, and then
(44:47):
you can go in your garden andpick some herbs and dry them out
and then make medicine with it.
It really is.
You know it could take up allof your time if you, if you let
it, you know.
It's just it's really great.
Speaker 1 (45:02):
Oh, thank you so much .
I'm totally over here likewiping my eyes and everything.
I love that.
I love that.
Well, I love that you sharedthat.
I really appreciate that.
Thank you, because I thinksometimes, when you've been
doing work for a long time, youforget that you know that
sometimes it isn't just work.
So I love that and I agree withyou, it's.
(45:29):
You know, we have students fromall different walks of life and
it doesn't just have to be whatyou think an herbalist is.
And I love when and I'm notsure if this was you, but we've
had students who are like,coming to the program, they're
like I want to learn aboutherbalism for this Right, I only
(45:49):
am interested in like thisaspect of herbalism.
And then they're like pivot,pivot, pivot, pivot, pivot.
And then they're like oh, thisis what I meant to do and I am.
You know, this is it.
I'm an herbal writer or I'monly in.
I'm like I want to be like theworld's best tincture maker.
And before they were like no,no, I only want to do teas.
And I think that's the greatthing, because, as you're on
(46:17):
your journey, it's totally coolto like pivot and change.
And so what are some ways thatyou've pivoted from your
original thoughts of what, whator how you wanted to be as an
herbalist, like how did thingschange for you as you went along
your road?
Speaker 2 (46:38):
so, um, you know, at the beginning of my herbal
journey, um, I, I am not a oneperson or one thing kind of
person.
I really am, aquarius.
I really, like you, know manydifferent paths, you know
leading and walking each one tosee where it's gonna go.
So I really started my herbaljourney with herbalism.
But I signed up for youraromatherapist certification
first because I didn't knowanything about it, you know, and
that interested me.
So it's almost that point oflike I don't even know anything,
(47:01):
so I want to learn.
You know, and um, and one waythat I've pivoted through being
an aromatherapist and anherbalist is kind of learning
when to share my information,you know, kind of manifesting
the situations where I'm needed,versus kind of trying to say
(47:26):
hello, family member, like Iheard you have this issue, I'm
going to tell you that you needthis, or I bought these herbs
for you.
You know, I that's that was abig shift for me was kind of not
trying to push what I waslearning on other people, but
just more like doing my studiesand continuing my education and
(47:48):
allowing situations to kind ofcome to me.
Allowing situations to kind ofcome to me, you know, by making
myself available, but not likein a forceful or you know, an
annoying sort of way, which Iwas.
I was younger, was in my early20s, and I was really excited
about the information.
I didn't mean to be pushybecause I was just like, wow,
(48:10):
there's such an alternative formof natural healing out there,
like I feel like people need toknow about this.
But I feel like the reality isis that people will come to you,
you know, once you get rootedin your aromatherapy or
herbalism or whatever you knownatural healing stance you like
to take.
Speaker 1 (48:31):
Yeah, isn't that true ?
Like the second you stance youlike to take?
Yeah, that isn't that true.
Like the second you, you let goand the door, the door starts
to open.
It's like people find you, evensometimes in the grocery store,
and they just like starttalking to you about their
whatever, and you're like thisis a full store.
Why me?
(48:52):
People like find you.
Or or you're out with yourfather-in-law and he's like why
do these old guys come up to youand just talk about their
prostate?
And I'm like I don't know, Igot that vibe, I guess you know,
like because that's happenedmore than once with him when
we've been out, and he's like Ijust I must have that face Right
.
But I think the thing is, isit's so true, Once you, once you
(49:17):
stop looking, you know, and youjust, okay, I'm going to buckle
down, I'm going to do my stuff.
The people find you and theyjust don't stop finding you.
And it's fabulous because youget to meet some of the most
interesting people in the world,but it definitely it's a big
(49:44):
one to just you know, becauseyou do want to share everything
that you learn with the peoplethat you love, because you want
to feel it too.
And then sometimes you know,sometimes the people that you
love are the slowest to comearound Right Ask, you know.
So I think it's cool that youbring that up because you know I
know there's got to be otherstudents out there who feel like
my family or are not excitedfor me, and you know and it's
like, ah, that's just family,it's just family.
Speaker 2 (50:03):
You know, don't worry about it, they'll get there you
know, I think one importantthing that I would like to share
as well is that you know, whenI was a student at Heart of
Herbs Herbal School, demetriaoffers extensions on finishing
your certification, and I askedfor extensions for both of my
certifications because I have afamily and we run a separate
(50:28):
business outside of herbalism,you know, and so sometimes I
feel like I might hit a wall andI need to put my books down for
a month or something like that,because I'm a little burnt out.
But I encourage everyone to justkeep going, because I think
that's why you offer extensions,because you understand that
life happens and it's reallyjust continuously putting one
(50:51):
foot in front of the other,cause there were certainly times
where I thought, you know,maybe I'm not cut out for this,
maybe I can't accomplish this,you know, and I just pushed
myself just a little bit.
Once I gave myself time to restand, you know, I did it and
it's, I feel, like that's acommon thing.
So I would just suggest to allthe students just keep going and
take breaks, you know?
Speaker 1 (51:13):
Yeah, I agree, I mean you can only get saturated with
so much information.
Even if you adore what you'relearning about or you're like
I've been waiting my whole lifeto learn about this, you can,
you know, just overwhelmyourself really easily.
I think, and this is probablytrue in your case too I think
students who are you know, andthis is probably true in your
(51:44):
case too I think students who,are you know, want to do really,
really well, will sometimestalk themselves out of like it.
You know, like well, I'm notgoing to turn this in if it's
not perfect.
And I'm not sure if you everfelt like that or or, and I'm
always like look, you know, turnit in even if it's not perfect.
It's not perfect, we can figureout where, where, what's
missing.
But I hate, I hate when umstudents psych themselves out
because we don't it at heart ofherbs.
We don't live in this system ofpass fail, like traditional
(52:05):
education.
And but I think, coming fromthe traditional education, a lot
of students were like I don'twant to turn it, it's not
perfect.
I want.
Speaker 2 (52:12):
You know, I want all a hundred percents.
I hear that all the time.
Speaker 1 (52:14):
I want all a hundred percent, so like you can go back
and retake it and get your ahundred percent.
But let's figure out what'sgoing on before you, or I'm just
going to give up because Ican't do it.
And and uh, I'm really glad thatyou brought that up because it
is a and that you can take yourtime and you can put your
children first and your familyfirst, or whatever is going on
(52:37):
at the time.
If you know, during COVID wehad a lot of students who were
like I need to take a break.
There's all this stuff going on, or my parent is sick, my, my
husband is sick, or whatever.
I'm like, take, like, take it.
You know, absolutely take it.
And I think that that's maybemissing from a lot of our world
(52:59):
is just being able to take thetime and the space for when we,
when we just need it.
Sometimes we all need a break,right, even if we love what
we're learning.
We just sometimes need a break.
So I'm glad that you broughtthat up.
Speaker 2 (53:13):
Definitely, and I feel like it's a really great
point that she made about, like,the saturation of information,
because it is so much.
Heart of herbs is so detailedin their curriculum and it is a
lot of information.
You know, you can go throughone section or like a half of a
section and it is just so muchinformation.
(53:34):
It takes a little bit of timeto digest and process that you
know.
So, yeah, just take breaks andkeep going when you can.
Speaker 1 (53:43):
Oh, I love that advice, so I think a lot of
other students would reallyappreciate that.
So we've kept you for almost anhour now, so I should probably
let you go and get back to yourlife.
But I wanted to just say thankyou so much for joining us and
for sharing and giving suchgreat advice about connecting
(54:05):
with community, especially forother herbalists out there.
So just thank you for sharingthat experience.
I think that's really importantand I think a lot of people are
going to be inspired by that.
So thank you.
Speaker 2 (54:19):
You're very welcome and thank you so much for having
me.
It's been a delight to talk toyou today.
Speaker 1 (54:25):
Oh thanks.
Oh, one thing real quick whenyou get that website up and
running, let's reconnect and youcan give us an update and tell
us how things are going.
Speaker 2 (54:34):
Oh, I would love to do that.
Thank you, I will Thank you somuch.
Speaker 1 (54:38):
You have a great day.
All right, you too, thanks.
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