September 20, 2024 • 44 mins
Unlock the secrets to reclaiming your innate confidence with our special guest, Gwendi Klisa, a cognitive behavioral hypnotherapist from London. Discover how confidence is not an inherent trait but a skill that can be nurtured and rebuilt, especially when life's hurdles have knocked it down. Through Gwendy's holistic approach, we delve into actionable strategies that integrate cognitive processes and subconscious beliefs to overcome limiting thoughts and boost self-assurance.
Ever wondered how to confront and harness your darker traits for personal growth? Gwendi guides us through the transformative process of shadow work, emphasizing the importance of understanding and embracing every facet of ourselves—including the negative ones. Learn how to navigate strong emotions, use the brick wall metaphor to visualize barriers, and understand the pivotal role of a supportive companion in your journey toward self-improvement.
In our final discussion, we explore the profound influence of the subconscious on our emotions and behaviors, highlighting practical techniques to process and release buried negative emotions. From hypnotherapy to dynamic physical activities like swimming, Gwendi shares a variety of methods to anchor a new, more confident persona. We'll also offer tangible steps like environmental changes to reinforce your transformation, ensuring you leave this episode armed with the tools to build lasting confidence.
https://www.gwendiklisa.com/
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
Hi, this is Demetria Clark, the director of Heart of
Herbs Herbal School, and today,on the Heart of Herbs Herbal
School podcast, we are talkingto Gwendy Klise.
Now, gwendy is really coolbecause she's a cognitive
behavioral hypnotherapist,specializing in something that I
talk about a lot in ourclassroom, especially when
(00:26):
students are getting ready toembark on a new business or a
new offering or learning how totake the next step in their
herbal studies or theiraromatherapy studies, and that's
confidence, and you guys knowthat I really believe that
confidence is something that youcan create for yourself, that
(00:48):
you can have breakthroughs, andso Gwendy talks about this.
She helps people get out oftheir head and start believing
in themselves and theirabilities, and you guys know
that I love that kind of stuff.
I love the fact that she canhelp people bust down walls,
break barriers.
(01:09):
She's based in London and she'srun an online business for the
past 10 years about this, so I'mgoing to let her introduce
herself to you guys and explaina little bit about what she does
before we like dive in andstart asking all kinds of great
questions.
(01:29):
So, gwendy, please say hey toeveryone.
Hi, demetria.
Speaker 2 (01:34):
Hi everyone.
I am so happy that you invitedme today because I, firstly, I
love herbs.
To be honest, I'm a bit of agardener.
I haven't told you this, but Ido.
Actually, I believe in plantsfor sure, and what you say about
confidence is so cool and Ilove the way that you're so
positive about it and I canimagine you how you actually
(01:54):
cheer on your, your students andanybody listening to this.
Confidence is like Demetria saidit's something you create for
yourself and it's also somethingthat people have to build up.
Nobody, 99% of us are not bornwith a full or maybe we are born
with a full confidence, butthis is already going deep into
the topic.
Throughout our lives there willbe knocks, and sometimes these
(02:18):
knocks can lead to a little dentin the confidence, and this is
how we get onto that track oflowering the confidence a bit.
And today we are all aboutspeaking about what we can do to
bring that back up and reallystep into it and start believing
in ourselves, our abilities,our ability to study, to do
(02:40):
business or to do whatever Imean.
This applies, of course, to allareas of life.
So, yeah, that's.
That's just a thank you forhaving me and what I do.
I work really on the wholehuman in a way that I believe in
.
Yes, you have to change thethinking.
People have a problem and thefirst thing we, we tend to do
are, I think, people who areherbalists probably a a bit more
(03:03):
in tune, for sure, more in tunewith nature and the body, but
an ordinary people, they willstart just thinking, getting
into the spiraling thinking,ruminating, overthinking, and
that is good.
I mean.
The good thing is what is goodto calm that down and get that
thinking onto a level.
That's where the cognitive andheart comes in and a cognitive
(03:26):
behavioral hypnotherapist.
So get the thinking in trackand then, what I also like to do
, obviously, get into thesubconscious and access that.
I talk more about that later.
And then the next step toreally having that full
confidence is to change yourbehavior and challenge yourself.
The doing is part of theconfidence, obviously, because
(03:46):
you are setting yourself goals.
So I like to, my approach isreally holistic, in that way
that I go into the thinking,into the feeling, into the
physical sensations of theconfidence and into the actions.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
Oh, wow, I love that.
So I also run Birth ArtsInternational, which is a doula
training organization, and so Italk a lot about how I think and
I talk about this with ourstudents too in reference to,
like confidence.
It's like you're born okay,right, and the world decides
they're gonna pull all thesebricks out of your wall, right.
(04:24):
It sounds to me like your workis just rebuilding those those
walls of of confidence where youknow, you know, when a child
first says I want to sing a song, it doesn't occur to them that
the song isn't going to soundgood or that it isn't worth
singing, or that their lyricsare going to be whatever they,
(04:46):
they're confident and they wantto do it.
And then it's the world thatsays you don't sound good enough
, or your song doesn't rhyme, orwhatever.
And it sounds to me like thework that you do is really
helping people put those thosewalls back up and overcoming
their limiting beliefs.
So can you start by explainingyour theory of overcoming
(05:07):
limiting beliefs and its keyprinciples?
Speaker 2 (05:10):
Yeah, yeah, sure.
So I think the way we aresaying limiting beliefs, because
we know that's a concept, butin real life people will just
encounter a situation thatbothers them, where they maybe
wish I could act differently.
Why am I doing this?
Something is holding me back.
For example, somebody wants tobe able to present to a bigger
(05:31):
group, really in a good way andin a confident way and in a way
that everybody learns and that,and.
But they are holding a limitingbelief in some way that makes
them hold back and not be ableto present.
And I'm just, I'm just going togive this.
So this is how people suddenlynotice oh, I've got a belief.
(05:51):
I can't present to a group, I'mbad at public speaking, I'm
that kind of thing.
Or you just realize you have agoal and you can't reach it.
This is what I've seen a lot inthe business field.
They're setting themselves the10k goal and whatever goal, and
it's not, it's so elusive.
And these people I've workedwith them too, I've been there
(06:13):
myself, of course we work hard,we do everything and then we
can't reach it because there'salways something missing.
And and that is the other way,where we say, oh, I can't make
10k.
I can't do it consistentlybecause I'm something you know
and these are there.
We know there's some sabotagegoing on, basically.
So that's, that's the I guess,the starting point for this.
Speaker 1 (06:36):
Oh yeah, I love that.
So what inspired you to developthis theory and to specifically
go into this work?
Was there a personal experienceor insight that led you to
develop this theory and tospecifically go into this work?
Was there a personal experienceor insight that led you to
explore this more and develop astructured approach to
overcoming limiting beliefs?
Or was it like just abrainstorm one day and you were
like, oh my gosh, this is how Ican help, this is how I can make
(07:00):
a difference in the world?
So what was your inspiration?
Speaker 2 (07:04):
Yeah, it was.
It was two things really.
It was firstly that I think,also believe again, I believe
that I've really strong emotionsand that it's hard for me
sometimes to get a handle onthem.
So I've been held.
I feel I've been held backquite a lot in life by having
being overly whatever and thisand that, and instead of just
(07:25):
getting on with this orprocessing through it in a
healthy way and doing the thingthat I actually wanted to do,
instead of going into any kindof spiral.
So that is one thing that forme, it's really necessary to
work through, this as a person,and I've so that that's the, I
guess the, the basis.
And then I've there's that wassomething else somebody in
(07:47):
lockdown.
We were chatting and she said,oh, I've been doing lots of
shadow work and I was like, ohmy god, I'm sitting here in this
flat with three kids and all ofthat and some people are doing
shadow work.
So I said, listen, you can doshadow work as well, nobody's
stopping you.
So I started exactly exactly,so I started going into that.
I read a really good bookcalled I've got it actually here
(08:10):
the dark side of the lightchasers by Debbie Ford.
It's a nice book about shadowwork, in case somebody's
interested.
And anyway, I went in there andjust delved into my shadow and
I uncovered quite a few things.
And obviously only do that ifyou, if you have somebody to
work with you through it, so Iwouldn't just say anybody should
(08:30):
just do it.
So you need to be able to have,have, have a companion with
that if you go there.
Speaker 1 (08:37):
Basically, oh, that's great.
Will you explain what you meanby shadow work for people who do
not know what that means?
Speaker 2 (08:45):
Yeah, I mean the concept.
I mean it could mean a lot ofthings, but the way I mean it is
because you're asking this,it's just to get into your soul
or into your unconscious,subconscious and get to know all
the parts.
And this is really pertinentalso to what we're going to
speak about today.
Yes, of course I know I'm, Ican speak to people, I love
(09:07):
speaking to people and that'smaybe my gregarious part or my
my friendly part, and I knowthat part well and I like that
part.
But then, of course, I alsohave a part in me that's so
easily demotivated and it's likewhen somebody achieves
something and it's not me, Icould go into a sulk.
I'm better now and I'veovercome it.
(09:28):
That is, for example, that sulkypart is something that I would
call a shadow, because it'ssomething we hide.
Of course, nobody's proud ofthat and we don't want to.
We don't put that forward.
But all these parts need tobecome too light.
We can I mean, we can keep themunder lock and people function.
Thousands of people function.
(09:49):
They just lock them away and dodo life right.
So that's an option for us.
But for somebody who wants todiscover that or feels there's a
need because there's so muchpressure building up in them.
It's good to get to know theseother shadow parts of themselves
, or the part I'm going to speaklater for example, the part of
shame, or all these emotions wesay I don't feel shame, no, no,
(10:12):
no, no, no.
And then maybe, when you, youcan think, maybe there is some
element of myself that I'veburied so deep, that maybe has
some shame, and bringing thatout will transform you basically
especially yeah, okay, I'mgoing to speak later public
speaking examples, I'm soexcited about this whole topic.
Yeah, so that's shadow work.
Speaker 1 (10:33):
Yeah, I love that, like I always.
You know students will so forme, like personally, in
reference to what you weretalking about right.
I am so boring online I am justlike great job, you know I'm not
, I'm not very gregarious or allthis stuff, and so I've been
trying to, in the past year,like get out of my skin and not
(10:55):
be so like um, I don't know,afraid to live in this space,
you know, and and I've beendoing this for for, oh gosh, 30
years now, so it's like I reallyshould be over it by now, right
?
So I've been trying to, like,you know, really touch on the
things that hold me back and Ialways talk to our students
(11:16):
about that too, and that I thinksometimes you have to, you know
, arm wrestle with the darkparts of yourself, the parts
that, no matter what is going on, you know, like you're in this
little cloud.
We have to like not bring ourcloud with us everywhere, and I
think it's really important thatyou're doing work like this,
(11:38):
because I think sometimes peoplethink, if they address the
parts of themselves that theydon't like or that they want to
work on, or they're missing outon opportunities for one,
self-growth but also motivation,like some of the things that I
don't necessarily always likeabout myself have also given me
the strength to do other thingstoo, so it's important to also
(12:01):
embrace and understand those.
So I think it's really coolthat you work in that realm and
that you talk to people aboutthat.
Now you have something calledthe brick wall metaphor.
Can you explain that to that,explain that to us and then
illustrate, you know, the waysthat it can work against us or
(12:24):
help us?
Or how does this metaphor helpindividuals visualize and
understand their own barriers topersonal growth and success?
Speaker 2 (12:31):
Yeah, yeah, okay.
So I wanted to just say whatyou said about getting the
darker parts up.
Yes, and I think you mentionedyou transformed one of them into
a helper, into a support, isthat right?
Speaker 1 (12:43):
Oh, yeah, yeah, no, I did I absolutely.
Speaker 2 (12:45):
That is exactly the thing.
Maybe some people areruminating too much, and that is
a part, but that can be apensive part.
Just bring them to light, letthem express and give them their
job.
That basically just wanted tosay that.
Speaker 1 (12:58):
I love that.
Give them their job.
I love that because that's whatI do.
I do like I'm not always verygood with um people and then
when people meet me they're like, oh my gosh, you're so funny
and you're so kind, but like Istick to myself until I feel
comfortable and safe.
And that doesn't always workwhen you do public speaking and
stuff like that.
So I always seem to be a littlestandoffish and I'm really been
(13:21):
trying to work on that.
But on the other hand, thatpart of me that's like that
allowed me to write likesomething like 20,000 pages of
student course material over theyears.
So you can, you can use those.
You use those things as toolsif you, if you look and
understand that they're there.
So I love that you encouragepeople to, you know, embrace the
(13:47):
different parts of themselvesthat maybe in some context, we
feel aren't the greatest partsof ourselves, and make them
become our champions.
Does that make sense?
Speaker 2 (13:57):
Yeah, or be part of the team.
Speaker 1 (13:59):
Yeah, exactly, I love that Be part of the team.
Speaker 2 (14:02):
It's really individual.
Some, you know, each person hasdifferent parts and some could
be great, as as the champions,and others are just a good
support, but that is of course,very individual.
But you asked about the brickwall metaphor yes, yes.
I love, I love, I love thatyou're asking me about that and
I also realized that in thebeginning you said, oh, the
brick wall of confidence canalso be something good.
(14:23):
So in this case, the and youare right, actually, because we
are meant to build a foundationin this, I have the brick wall
as a metaphor of things that areobstacles in our way.
So basically, what happens is,let's imagine we are speaking
and you're going to love thisexample, because I'm going to
take the public speaking exampleactually.
So let's say you said earlier,the child sings and thinks it's
(14:47):
great and has lots of fun, it'sreally noisy.
And then, of course, peoplemight say, oh, can you stop?
It's too loud, it's uh, I don'twant to hear, this is uh.
Or maybe people say unkind, Ithink maybe siblings say unkind,
I think, whatever it is, thischild suddenly gets this idea oh
, I'm a bad singer, my voiceisn't nice.
So they feel oh, and then theystop singing and they feel shame
(15:11):
deep somewhere, some.
Maybe something happened.
They were singing on achristmas, whatever, it can be
very banal, it can be verymundane, it can be something
more traumatic, but somethinghappened and they bury this
shame about their voice and thatis underground and we don't
want to feel shame.
(15:31):
Like I said, the shadow stuff,shame, anger, jealousy, all of
those feelings greed, sloth, allthose, really, I mean they.
I've googled how many basefeelings some people's only
eight, some people say it's 28.
I think the average westernperson can identify three
(15:52):
feelings, which is sad, mad andglad, which I found funny.
But of course there's all thesemore feelings that I'm saying
in inverted commas, uglyfeelings.
So shame, let's say shame.
You bury that and then youdon't want to go there, you
don't want to get it out of theground at all because you don't
want to go there, you don't wantto get it out of the ground at
all because you don't want toface that shame at all.
And then you just start puttinga foundation stone on it, and
(16:16):
that could be in this case.
It could be I'm not enough, myvoice isn't good enough, I'm not
well, I'm not worthy.
Maybe in this case I'm notenough, I'm not worthy and I'm
not worthy.
Maybe in this case I'm notenough, I'm not worthy and I'm
not safe.
I've identified as really base,foundational, negative beliefs
(16:37):
people hold that feed intoeverything else.
So those foundation stones,let's say with the singing shame
is I'm not enough, because myvoice isn't nice and I'm not
safe when I sing because peoplewere laughing at me on stage.
So you have the foundationstones and then you give
yourself a rule for your life.
The rule is I shouldn't sing onstage and I shouldn't sing.
(16:59):
But let's say I shouldn't singon stage or speak on stage
because people will laugh andI'll be rejected and ridiculed.
So those two big stones, theyhold the shame in place and you
won't go there.
And then throughout the years,so your rule is I shouldn't sing
on stage.
And then you find more reasonswhy you shouldn't sing on stage.
(17:21):
I'm not entertaining, I'm notold enough, I'm not young enough
, I don't have dope hair, I'venot got the equipment, the
technical.
I don't have dope hair, I'vegot.
I've not got the equipment, thetechnical.
I don't have the right teacherto teach me, I don't have the
right gender or right this, thatall of those thousand other
beliefs stuck on top of that.
Building each brick by brick,is is building a big, massive
(17:44):
wall suddenly and you're likeokay, I'm not singing on stage
because I don't have rhythm, Ican't sing, my voice is creaky,
my accent is bad.
So lots of bricks there and,yeah, that is basically the
brick wall metaphor, keepingburied feelings really nicely
locked in place by rude beliefslike I'm not safe, I'm not
(18:09):
worthy, I'm not safe, I'm notworthy, I'm not enough.
And then, on top, lots oflittle reasons why logical, in
inverted commas, logical reasonswhy I shouldn't sing.
Speaker 1 (18:18):
I can't sing oh my goodness, yeah, that's how it
starts.
It's like funny, you're sayingall this, you know, and, and you
I bet everyone who's listeninghas been like, oh okay, I can
come up with my own examples.
Some will literally be singing,others will be.
You know, the first time theytried to tell a joke or
(18:41):
something, right, and someonesaid you're not funny.
And for the rest of their daysthey were like I'm not funny or
I'm not pretty or I'm notwhatever, right, and how that
can really stick with us forever.
And you know, I'm almost 50years old, right, and some some
things that I'm working on islike bull caca I kind of want to
(19:05):
swear, but from like, when Iwas little, it's so amazing to
me that so much power can staywith us.
It can follow us like a currentfor the rest of our days.
So, after identifying ourlimiting beliefs, do you
recommend proving them wrong?
How does this process work andwhat strategies do you suggest
(19:27):
for challenging negative thoughtpatterns effectively?
Speaker 2 (19:32):
Yeah.
So I think the first step wouldbe just take each brick out.
So I call that, or the therapyindustry calls it, cognitive
restructuring.
That means you're disputing thebeliefs, you're disproving the
beliefs.
So you could say, for, forexample, you say people laugh at
(19:52):
me when I tell a joke.
Is this always the case?
Maybe one time people laughed,so actually the belief that
you're holding people laugh atme is not true.
So you would just try todisprove all the beliefs.
Who taught?
Who taught me this belief is?
Is this, like I said already,the objective truth, or is it?
Maybe sometimes it doesn'tapply.
(20:15):
Is my voice objectively reallyreally bad or is it just
something that's in my head?
And do people hear medifferently?
And you can ask a lot ofquestions to disprove the belief
.
Or you say I'm too old to singon stage.
(20:35):
Maybe there's people my age whoare actually really successful
at singing.
So all of these can be quiteeasily disproved.
There might be still resistance.
So if you're listening and youhave the singing example and
it's a common one you may notdislodge them immediately.
You may not say oh yeah, gwen,you're right.
Actually this person is areally successful singer at at
(20:57):
my age I should also have achance.
So, because the buried emotionsare still underneath.
But what we, what we do, isreally just talk through it and
ask a number of questions thatwill help you distance.
Or, for example, I had for thisis a bit different about
business I had oh, I can't run asuccessful business because I'm
(21:19):
a mom.
That's that was really in me.
Or oh, I can't run a successful, I can't make 10k months
consistently because I might getsick.
Those kind of people tellingthemselves that you could
disprove because there's lots ofmoms making lots of cash.
Yeah, it has nothing to do.
(21:39):
It might be harder Look, I'mbringing in limiting beliefs
because it's so ingrained for mebut it may not even be harder.
Maybe they have an easier timethan somebody having another
problem or another lifesituation.
That is difficult, that youknow.
You see my my, oh, I'm thinkingabout this.
Speaker 1 (21:57):
Yeah, so just talking , yeah so I just I didn't mean
to interrupt, so I apologize, um, but uh.
So I was having a conversationwith my husband about some kind
of limiting belief and wetracked it back to its origin,
like to its source, right, andit was so funny.
(22:17):
He said I don't understand whya person who affects us so young
, as a child, and then as anadult, you're like they are
complete freaking bananas,they're bozos, they don't have
their life in order, likenothing, right, and but you
(22:38):
still give that bozo power overyou because of the thing they
said to you once, right?
Do you ever notice that whenpeople start looking at where
their stuff came from, yeah,that they're like why?
Why is this person who is notthe person I want to be, or like
(23:00):
I don't want to be like thatperson at all.
I don't want to live that way,like?
Speaker 2 (23:04):
why did I?
Speaker 1 (23:05):
let their comment on my behavior or looks or whatever
, right, like why do I bringthat in?
Like how, how can we encouragepeople to be like look at the
source?
Or is that just what you do?
Speaker 2 (23:26):
Look at the source.
No, no, you're right.
It's the best, of course, ifyou can trace it back and say
how did I come to this belief?
And what I want to say, though,is it back and say how did I
come to this belief?
And what I want to say, though,is it's good to ask why and be
shocked, but also to acknowledgethat and to forgive ourselves
for believing that, because,obviously, the human mind is we
don't.
The mind doesn't want to think,or the soul doesn't want to
feel.
Oh my god, I did this wrong.
I'm really stupid.
And then the new thing comes,beating themselves up.
(23:49):
But what is important to alsosee that often it's a survival
mechanism where you aredependent on this person or
these are you really good littlegang in the neighborhood and
they what they say, is importantbecause, ultimately, we are
tribal beings.
We don't want to be cast out.
So what we do is yes, you wereright.
Yes, I'm going to change myself.
Speaker 1 (24:10):
It depends.
Wow, I love that.
The tribal beings connectionbecause I think I forget in the
world that we live in?
Yeah, that we really need eachother.
Speaker 2 (24:20):
Yes, totally, Totally , and that's why I think we need
to really have that compassionOnce we've picked up something
and just have compassion, andthen the subconscious will know
it can tell us more.
It doesn't need to because itwon't be told off.
But yeah, I'm shocked to when Ithink back.
I've just thought back at somethings that I like whatever,
(24:42):
some little high school bulliesor what, they don't matter at
all, but it has, it affects youand it can shape you and it
doesn't have to.
Sometimes people are in asituation where they've got such
a good fallback circle ofpeople and they have such a full
life that it doesn't affectthem.
So it's not a given that ifsomebody gets a negative comment
(25:03):
as a growing up person, that itwill affect them, but it can.
Speaker 1 (25:08):
Yeah, absolutely.
I love that.
So, moving beyond the thinkingprocess, you talk about
uncovering and acknowledging theunderlying emotions tied to
limiting beliefs.
Why is accessing thesubconscious important and how
can individuals effectivelynavigate their emotions in this
(25:28):
process?
Because I think this isprobably where a lot of people
like have a little freak outright.
They're like, oh, oh, my gosh,that's always been there.
Like do I do that?
You know what I mean?
Like is this my defensivemechanism?
Like that's not good.
Like how do we, how do we,navigate emotions in this
(25:49):
process?
Speaker 2 (25:50):
Yeah, the subcon I.
I mean it is my favorite topic.
It's also on my website, my.
My biggest term people searchfor is how real quick.
Speaker 1 (25:57):
How can people find your website?
Speaker 2 (25:59):
oh yeah, oh yeah, it's gwendy kleezer, it's.
I'm gonna spell it out because,yes, please do E-N-D-I-K-L-I-S
for Sahara Acom.
Perfect, that's my website.
So yeah, on that people, themost common search term is how
do I access my subconscious?
(26:19):
So it's a popular question.
I love doing it.
Actually, as kids we've alreadyplayed being unconscious
Somehow somebody I meanobviously it never worked was
probably.
We tried to breathe in acertain way.
I don't know how we there wasno social media to show us, but
it didn't work, but we were.
We wanted to do it for sure.
That's the first thing, and thesecond thing is subconscious.
(26:41):
It can really quieten people.
I was recently at a talk herein London about dreaming and I
said I'm going to challengemyself and ask a question was a
big hall full of 500 people.
So I did ask and there werelike three psychologists,
psychiatrists, at the front andI said what is the connection
between dreaming and thesubconscious?
(27:02):
and they were silent they didn'tknow what to say, because
obviously the subconscious mypoint is not every psychologist
or person working in health willsay yeah, that's a thing.
Personally, I believe in it.
I think memories get storedsomewhere.
Dreams come from somewhere.
We have collective.
If I do a special pose, peoplewill know this is threatening,
(27:25):
this is kind, this is so.
That is what I speak about whenI say subconscious.
So as humans, we have astorehouse that's given to us,
that we pass on, that we can allaccess when.
If we want to, we don't have to, but we can.
And if we don't, it might comein dreams or in.
If you people do a Freudianslip when they say something
wrong accidentally.
Speaker 1 (27:48):
Wow, I was just thinking, you know, when you
said the subconscious beingpassed on and everything.
It's really interesting becauseI know in early childhood
development studies they've donestudies where children will,
where infants, very youngtoddlers will react to body
language in cues that don't havewords, that don't have sound,
(28:12):
and they will react.
And it's a primal reaction,it's something, it's like a
protective mechanism.
So do you feel that thesubconscious also like really
works to protect us and kind ofkeep us alive, you know as
primal beings, or is that justlike something silly that I'm
thinking about?
Speaker 2 (28:32):
I think the instincts also play into it, now that
you're saying it, because Ithink even dogs can understand
if I have an angry face or ahappy face.
So I guess mammals have havethat kind of knowledge.
But the subconscious definitelydoes it protect us?
I think it's, it can.
It's just like a big I don'twant to call it a dump, but a
(28:54):
storehouse of experience.
Speaker 1 (28:57):
So in that, way, yeah , storage room.
Speaker 2 (29:01):
Mine's the size of a warehouse, someone else's maybe
a closet, I don't know yeah, no,no, and we all I mean some
people I love this metaphor andthen we all have somewhere in
there.
It's a bridge to the universesomewhere.
So I think we can.
There is something thatconnects us all.
I really believe that.
(29:21):
I find it fascinating.
And, yeah, so, the subconscious.
But when you were asking aboutthe emotions and so on, so why
we need to get in line withthese emotions?
Because when earlier, when I umexplained the how to um dispute
the all the thoughts I'm too old, I'm too young, yes, somebody
else who's 17 has done this, andso on, that might be all
(29:45):
logical reason yeah, okay, I getit, I get it.
Some other mom has made money,some other person has climbed
this mountain.
That's cool, but still, theemotion underneath it all
doesn't believe it.
So that's why we need to gointo the subconscious, because
we can't fix with the thinkingpart of our brain, we can't fix
the emotions.
The emotions need to be fixedwith the tribal, the primal, the
(30:10):
everything that's in there, andthere's, yeah, that, for
example, the plants, even plants.
Let me just I think I'mdigressing a bit too much too
far into the next topic that Iwant to speak about, how we
process through these emotions,but basically the emotions in
the subconscious, they need tobe called or named.
(30:32):
So, like I said, in thisexample, with the public
speaking, the shame Okay there'sshame.
Let's just call it that.
It's okay, everybody has it.
It has come from, maybe fromthis or that, and now I want to
deal with it.
So, yeah, that basically.
So we have that emotion, andthen I guess the next thing is
how can we process through it?
Speaker 1 (30:53):
Yeah, yeah.
So once the negative emotionsare processed, how do you
suggest filling the void with,you know, positive beliefs and
emotions?
Is it really a matter ofchanging how we speak to
ourselves?
Like I always say to ourstudents when I'm talking about
like confidence and gettingtheir businesses started and
stuff, and you know I'm like,hey, you know, you don't need to
(31:17):
shit, talk yourself right, likeyou don't need to take that
from other people, because whenpush comes to shove right, I
don't care where you are out inthe world.
No one can be as mean to you asyou, right?
Speaker 2 (31:33):
So how do we like help?
Speaker 1 (31:34):
people how do you help people like.
Reinforce these new andempowering beliefs.
Speaker 2 (31:40):
Yeah, yeah, let's go, though I want to cycle back a
little bit to the processingagain.
Yeah, because also.
So what I was?
I guess I was digressing a bit,but what I wanted to say is
that so we have this emotion andthere's a few ways the
subconscious will understand.
So that can be withhypnotherapy, it can be with
dream work, it can be withmovement, just going for a walk
(32:04):
or a voice, using your voice,sounding, shouting in the wind.
So once you have this emotionart therapy or just doing art,
scribbling, just like that,letting the body, so it can be
really something people callrage, dancing.
So do all the things that arebased on the senses, the, the,
the smell you could do, the, thevoice, feeling, all all of
(32:30):
those will help access thesubconscious.
And what I sometimes like to dowhen, for example, gardening, I
don't know I also think plantsmaybe probably help with the
subconscious in a way.
Even in a really easy example,I've got a.
I had a, lots of hedges, hedgeseverywhere, and I had to take
them out and I thought, oh,these are digging up my limiting
(32:52):
beliefs and it felt really good.
So I had all these piles ofeverything and it was good to
take it away to the dump, andeven in kind of work symbols, I
guess that was for me a symboland I've just said this is a
symbol now for my limitingbeliefs.
I'm getting them out.
So basically, the subconsciousspeaks in metaphors, symbols and
(33:13):
anything that's body-based andI would say nature is part of
that as well.
So that's how you could process.
If you want to processsomething, process it through
that.
Not only most people wouldjournal if they do it, but that
again it's just the brain work,but anything like breath work or
a good jog or rage dancing,that will help you get it out.
(33:37):
I'm a big swimmer with thatkind of stuff.
Speaker 1 (33:42):
I get in and I swim and you know I can be mad and I
you know I rage swim.
I spent most of COVID rageswimming.
You know, I mean, I was uh 12hours from my children who were
grown and I couldn't see them.
So you know, I was rageswimming big time.
So I think that it's good thatyou I'm going to have to check
(34:05):
out rage dancing and get somemusic on.
And you know, I think that'sthat sounds like my new sport
rage swimming, rage dancing.
I'm going to the rage Olympics,so I love that yes it helps it's
and, yeah, that.
Speaker 2 (34:20):
Anyway, I wanted to encourage anyone who has
discovered this emotion, findways to process through it and
again, on my website, I'vewritten blogs about it.
But this is the way to, yeah,to to get get it out of your
system.
And then what you were askingin the next step, or the almost
last step, is okay, I've createdthis vacuum.
I've released the all the, theemotions that were charged so so
(34:47):
high that they were giving meso much pressure, and I've
released the thinking, and, ofcourse, I'm never expecting that
everything is cleared andcompletely cleansed, because
this is always.
We're humans, you know, we arealways feeling a little bit of
all this isn't good, but then,immediately when you catch
yourself, ok, no, I'm rephrasingthis how can I learn, how can I
(35:09):
do it better?
How is this?
Maybe not a big deal, and so on, but the next step is to, to
build the new persona, and Ireally feel that embodying is
important.
So, let's say, the person whowants to present to the group,
really in a relaxed manner, atease, and in a way that
everybody learns and takes onthe new persona of what would
(35:33):
this person do?
If they were this person whodoes this.
What would this person do ifthey were this person who does
this?
So they would probably reallyfocus on the audience as well
and take in their feedback andnot try to be only right and not
make a mistake.
They would just be very open tothe exchange and passionate and
just leaning into the feelingof I love this topic and I want
(35:55):
to tell everybody about it.
So that's how you could leaninto in a behavior way.
Or you say, oh, I want to makemy 10K consistent month.
What does this person do?
They probably work slightlydifferently than you are at the
moment.
So you could look at that andembody that and say this person
would make a sales call and bereally happy about the sales
(36:16):
call and say, listen, I'moffering something good to
someone and that's great.
If they want it, they can haveit.
If they don't need it, that'sabsolutely cool.
Maybe they want it soon, inthree months, maybe never.
So get into that person.
And how do we do that?
Firstly by, I guess, gettingreally in the thinking about it,
to saying, yeah, this personwould try to learn from
(36:38):
experiences, would try to bepositive and see that and so on.
And also I would recommendchange your environment a bit.
How would this person live?
Maybe it's time for a decluttera little bit.
I mean I don't want to go intothese always cliched topics, but
maybe that person makes theirbed every morning, even things
(36:58):
like that.
I mean, this is tiny, but itsends a signal to the
subconscious again, because you,you realize that subconscious
notices I'm tidying this up, I'mtaking care of my environment,
taking care of my files or my,my workbook, that I'm writing
and I like.
Also in terms of plants, ofcourse, it's probably nice to
have nice scents of plants ornice just having, I don't know.
(37:22):
I feel I love plants.
Actually I'm just sitting herelooking at my balcony plants.
But so embody the whole thing.
Use your five senses again.
Maybe a perfume will remind you.
Maybe you can even take alittle talisman, and I'm a
person.
For example, if I have thisring here, I say, well, this is
now my ring.
That embodies this.
(37:42):
If I ever lose the ring, youknow, I know for myself, I can
take another object and givethat the power.
Speaker 1 (37:49):
So you're talking like anchoring, like helping
people anchor.
I love that.
I do that.
So I do that myself, like Ieven have positive affirmations
written on my mirror at times,or I always you know, I always
have certain things with me,just I don't know.
(38:09):
It just helps me feel groundedIf I feel out of sorts or
whatever I know I have, likesome you know, I have like a
rock in my purse that like I Ikeep one of my kids gave me when
they were like two.
You know it doesn't have to beanything like spectacular, but
I'm a believer in anchoring andI'm a believer in decluttering
(38:30):
too, and you know it's easy forherbalists to get cluttered
space.
We need jars and herbs andcontainers and notebooks, and so
I really I really think that Ilove that you brought up
decluttering, because I thinkthat that's really a good place,
like because my profession canbe so cluttered.
I probably have like 35notebooks stacked on my desk and
(38:52):
not a joke.
So I totally I actually have aeight foot long dining room
table as my desk because I needI need to have space around me
and not have it be cluttered, soI love that you say that.
So where can people learn moreand work with you or, you know,
(39:17):
connect with things that you'reoffering?
Like, how can we, you know, howcan people find you?
I know you gave out your URL,so I'm gonna ask you to do that
again, but like, just how canpeople, where can they get to
you?
Speaker 2 (39:30):
Yeah, so my website for sure, because I blog on
there and I share quite a lot.
So that's GwendyKlisacom,g-w-e-n-d-i-k-l-i-s-acom, and
thank you for asking.
By the way, I'm always veryhappy to, of course, share and
help people and connect withpeople, so reach out to me
(39:52):
anyone if you have questions,and I'm on Instagram,
gwendyklisa.
And I've got a new thing alimiting beliefs blaster.
It's a free mini course where,yeah, I guess I take you through
to on a more detailed levelabout what I've spoken about
today and that you can find atthe moment.
(40:12):
It's on a link at bitly forwardslash, at bitly forward slash,
and then with a capital limitingnext word, saying no spaces
believes, also with a capital,and then blaster with a capital,
again bit.
I love that, but so that if yousign up there you will get it.
(40:34):
At the moment it's an emailformat email every few days with
the next step and yeah, I golike quite into detail as one
change one belief and then goand let's do that kind of thing
I love that it comes via email,because it's like it really
takes no effort.
Speaker 1 (40:52):
You open everybody opens their email on their phone
, like like you know on theircommute, or you know in the
morning when they're havingtheir tea or their coffee or
whatever, and it's like it's soeasy when things come via email.
I love when I can just likeenjoy a quick email and I can
say, okay, I'm going to savethis in a folder because I'm
(41:12):
coming back to it.
Or you know, okay, I got what Ineeded from it.
I love that.
I love that that's available topeople.
I think it's really cool thatyou're offering you know it's
this free course.
I, you know, I am a bigbeliever um, that you would
definitely be worth paying for.
So, yes, it is.
Speaker 2 (41:34):
I mean, I gotta be honest, it definitely is, but I
like to make it availablebecause it will help people and
it does help people.
It's part of what I do with myclients and I want it to be out
there because I hear so often Ido it myself, but if you pay
attention or everybody listeningnext time you're speaking to
(41:56):
someone, pay attention when theysay I can't, this is too I
can't and so on, all these kindof things they're saying why
something that can't dosomething, and then just listen
out to that because we do thatall the time.
So, yeah, I would.
I don't want people to fallinto that trap anymore,
basically.
So I love that.
So, yeah, I am really happy.
Speaker 1 (42:19):
Thank you so much to be on this podcast, demetria oh
well, thank you so much forbeing here and I just I really
appreciate your time andeveryone.
I'm gonna also have the linksin the bio um for the podcast,
so you'll be able to connectwith any links.
You.
You guys know that you can alsoemail me always and I can send
(42:41):
you any links that you've heardon the show.
We'll also, when the podcastcomes out, we'll have all the
information on our Facebook pagetoo, so people can go over
there when you hear this andfind any of the links that you
need.
So thank you so much for beingon the podcast.
I really appreciate it.
I've had so much fun with youtoday and I've learned so much.
(43:02):
So thank you, thank you, thankyou Same.
Thank you, demetria.
Okay, bye-bye.
Speaker 2 (43:08):
Bye.
Hi, this is Demetria Clark, the director of Heart of
Herbs Herbal School, and today,on the Heart of Herbs Herbal
School podcast, we are talkingto Gwendy Klise.
Now, gwendy is really coolbecause she's a cognitive
behavioral hypnotherapist,specializing in something that I
talk about a lot in ourclassroom, especially when
(00:26):
students are getting ready toembark on a new business or a
new offering or learning how totake the next step in their
herbal studies or theiraromatherapy studies, and that's
confidence, and you guys knowthat I really believe that
confidence is something that youcan create for yourself, that
(00:48):
you can have breakthroughs, andso Gwendy talks about this.
She helps people get out oftheir head and start believing
in themselves and theirabilities, and you guys know
that I love that kind of stuff.
I love the fact that she canhelp people bust down walls,
break barriers.
(01:09):
She's based in London and she'srun an online business for the
past 10 years about this, so I'mgoing to let her introduce
herself to you guys and explaina little bit about what she does
before we like dive in andstart asking all kinds of great
questions.
(01:29):
So, gwendy, please say hey toeveryone.
Hi, demetria.
Speaker 2 (01:34):
Hi everyone.
I am so happy that you invitedme today because I, firstly, I
love herbs.
To be honest, I'm a bit of agardener.
I haven't told you this, but Ido.
Actually, I believe in plantsfor sure, and what you say about
confidence is so cool and Ilove the way that you're so
positive about it and I canimagine you how you actually
(01:54):
cheer on your, your students andanybody listening to this.
Confidence is like Demetria saidit's something you create for
yourself and it's also somethingthat people have to build up.
Nobody, 99% of us are not bornwith a full or maybe we are born
with a full confidence, butthis is already going deep into
the topic.
Throughout our lives there willbe knocks, and sometimes these
(02:18):
knocks can lead to a little dentin the confidence, and this is
how we get onto that track oflowering the confidence a bit.
And today we are all aboutspeaking about what we can do to
bring that back up and reallystep into it and start believing
in ourselves, our abilities,our ability to study, to do
(02:40):
business or to do whatever Imean.
This applies, of course, to allareas of life.
So, yeah, that's.
That's just a thank you forhaving me and what I do.
I work really on the wholehuman in a way that I believe in
.
Yes, you have to change thethinking.
People have a problem and thefirst thing we, we tend to do
are, I think, people who areherbalists probably a a bit more
(03:03):
in tune, for sure, more in tunewith nature and the body, but
an ordinary people, they willstart just thinking, getting
into the spiraling thinking,ruminating, overthinking, and
that is good.
I mean.
The good thing is what is goodto calm that down and get that
thinking onto a level.
That's where the cognitive andheart comes in and a cognitive
(03:26):
behavioral hypnotherapist.
So get the thinking in trackand then, what I also like to do
, obviously, get into thesubconscious and access that.
I talk more about that later.
And then the next step toreally having that full
confidence is to change yourbehavior and challenge yourself.
The doing is part of theconfidence, obviously, because
(03:46):
you are setting yourself goals.
So I like to, my approach isreally holistic, in that way
that I go into the thinking,into the feeling, into the
physical sensations of theconfidence and into the actions.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
Oh, wow, I love that.
So I also run Birth ArtsInternational, which is a doula
training organization, and so Italk a lot about how I think and
I talk about this with ourstudents too in reference to,
like confidence.
It's like you're born okay,right, and the world decides
they're gonna pull all thesebricks out of your wall, right.
(04:24):
It sounds to me like your workis just rebuilding those those
walls of of confidence where youknow, you know, when a child
first says I want to sing a song, it doesn't occur to them that
the song isn't going to soundgood or that it isn't worth
singing, or that their lyricsare going to be whatever they,
(04:46):
they're confident and they wantto do it.
And then it's the world thatsays you don't sound good enough
, or your song doesn't rhyme, orwhatever.
And it sounds to me like thework that you do is really
helping people put those thosewalls back up and overcoming
their limiting beliefs.
So can you start by explainingyour theory of overcoming
(05:07):
limiting beliefs and its keyprinciples?
Speaker 2 (05:10):
Yeah, yeah, sure.
So I think the way we aresaying limiting beliefs, because
we know that's a concept, butin real life people will just
encounter a situation thatbothers them, where they maybe
wish I could act differently.
Why am I doing this?
Something is holding me back.
For example, somebody wants tobe able to present to a bigger
(05:31):
group, really in a good way andin a confident way and in a way
that everybody learns and that,and.
But they are holding a limitingbelief in some way that makes
them hold back and not be ableto present.
And I'm just, I'm just going togive this.
So this is how people suddenlynotice oh, I've got a belief.
(05:51):
I can't present to a group, I'mbad at public speaking, I'm
that kind of thing.
Or you just realize you have agoal and you can't reach it.
This is what I've seen a lot inthe business field.
They're setting themselves the10k goal and whatever goal, and
it's not, it's so elusive.
And these people I've workedwith them too, I've been there
(06:13):
myself, of course we work hard,we do everything and then we
can't reach it because there'salways something missing.
And and that is the other way,where we say, oh, I can't make
10k.
I can't do it consistentlybecause I'm something you know
and these are there.
We know there's some sabotagegoing on, basically.
So that's, that's the I guess,the starting point for this.
Speaker 1 (06:36):
Oh yeah, I love that.
So what inspired you to developthis theory and to specifically
go into this work?
Was there a personal experienceor insight that led you to
develop this theory and tospecifically go into this work?
Was there a personal experienceor insight that led you to
explore this more and develop astructured approach to
overcoming limiting beliefs?
Or was it like just abrainstorm one day and you were
like, oh my gosh, this is how Ican help, this is how I can make
(07:00):
a difference in the world?
So what was your inspiration?
Speaker 2 (07:04):
Yeah, it was.
It was two things really.
It was firstly that I think,also believe again, I believe
that I've really strong emotionsand that it's hard for me
sometimes to get a handle onthem.
So I've been held.
I feel I've been held backquite a lot in life by having
being overly whatever and thisand that, and instead of just
(07:25):
getting on with this orprocessing through it in a
healthy way and doing the thingthat I actually wanted to do,
instead of going into any kindof spiral.
So that is one thing that forme, it's really necessary to
work through, this as a person,and I've so that that's the, I
guess the, the basis.
And then I've there's that wassomething else somebody in
(07:47):
lockdown.
We were chatting and she said,oh, I've been doing lots of
shadow work and I was like, ohmy god, I'm sitting here in this
flat with three kids and all ofthat and some people are doing
shadow work.
So I said, listen, you can doshadow work as well, nobody's
stopping you.
So I started exactly exactly,so I started going into that.
I read a really good bookcalled I've got it actually here
(08:10):
the dark side of the lightchasers by Debbie Ford.
It's a nice book about shadowwork, in case somebody's
interested.
And anyway, I went in there andjust delved into my shadow and
I uncovered quite a few things.
And obviously only do that ifyou, if you have somebody to
work with you through it, so Iwouldn't just say anybody should
(08:30):
just do it.
So you need to be able to have,have, have a companion with
that if you go there.
Speaker 1 (08:37):
Basically, oh, that's great.
Will you explain what you meanby shadow work for people who do
not know what that means?
Speaker 2 (08:45):
Yeah, I mean the concept.
I mean it could mean a lot ofthings, but the way I mean it is
because you're asking this,it's just to get into your soul
or into your unconscious,subconscious and get to know all
the parts.
And this is really pertinentalso to what we're going to
speak about today.
Yes, of course I know I'm, Ican speak to people, I love
(09:07):
speaking to people and that'smaybe my gregarious part or my
my friendly part, and I knowthat part well and I like that
part.
But then, of course, I alsohave a part in me that's so
easily demotivated and it's likewhen somebody achieves
something and it's not me, Icould go into a sulk.
I'm better now and I'veovercome it.
(09:28):
That is, for example, that sulkypart is something that I would
call a shadow, because it'ssomething we hide.
Of course, nobody's proud ofthat and we don't want to.
We don't put that forward.
But all these parts need tobecome too light.
We can I mean, we can keep themunder lock and people function.
Thousands of people function.
(09:49):
They just lock them away and dodo life right.
So that's an option for us.
But for somebody who wants todiscover that or feels there's a
need because there's so muchpressure building up in them.
It's good to get to know theseother shadow parts of themselves
, or the part I'm going to speaklater for example, the part of
shame, or all these emotions wesay I don't feel shame, no, no,
(10:12):
no, no, no.
And then maybe, when you, youcan think, maybe there is some
element of myself that I'veburied so deep, that maybe has
some shame, and bringing thatout will transform you basically
especially yeah, okay, I'mgoing to speak later public
speaking examples, I'm soexcited about this whole topic.
Yeah, so that's shadow work.
Speaker 1 (10:33):
Yeah, I love that, like I always.
You know students will so forme, like personally, in
reference to what you weretalking about right.
I am so boring online I am justlike great job, you know I'm not
, I'm not very gregarious or allthis stuff, and so I've been
trying to, in the past year,like get out of my skin and not
(10:55):
be so like um, I don't know,afraid to live in this space,
you know, and and I've beendoing this for for, oh gosh, 30
years now, so it's like I reallyshould be over it by now, right
?
So I've been trying to, like,you know, really touch on the
things that hold me back and Ialways talk to our students
(11:16):
about that too, and that I thinksometimes you have to, you know
, arm wrestle with the darkparts of yourself, the parts
that, no matter what is going on, you know, like you're in this
little cloud.
We have to like not bring ourcloud with us everywhere, and I
think it's really important thatyou're doing work like this,
(11:38):
because I think sometimes peoplethink, if they address the
parts of themselves that theydon't like or that they want to
work on, or they're missing outon opportunities for one,
self-growth but also motivation,like some of the things that I
don't necessarily always likeabout myself have also given me
the strength to do other thingstoo, so it's important to also
(12:01):
embrace and understand those.
So I think it's really coolthat you work in that realm and
that you talk to people aboutthat.
Now you have something calledthe brick wall metaphor.
Can you explain that to that,explain that to us and then
illustrate, you know, the waysthat it can work against us or
(12:24):
help us?
Or how does this metaphor helpindividuals visualize and
understand their own barriers topersonal growth and success?
Speaker 2 (12:31):
Yeah, yeah, okay.
So I wanted to just say whatyou said about getting the
darker parts up.
Yes, and I think you mentionedyou transformed one of them into
a helper, into a support, isthat right?
Speaker 1 (12:43):
Oh, yeah, yeah, no, I did I absolutely.
Speaker 2 (12:45):
That is exactly the thing.
Maybe some people areruminating too much, and that is
a part, but that can be apensive part.
Just bring them to light, letthem express and give them their
job.
That basically just wanted tosay that.
Speaker 1 (12:58):
I love that.
Give them their job.
I love that because that's whatI do.
I do like I'm not always verygood with um people and then
when people meet me they're like, oh my gosh, you're so funny
and you're so kind, but like Istick to myself until I feel
comfortable and safe.
And that doesn't always workwhen you do public speaking and
stuff like that.
So I always seem to be a littlestandoffish and I'm really been
(13:21):
trying to work on that.
But on the other hand, thatpart of me that's like that
allowed me to write likesomething like 20,000 pages of
student course material over theyears.
So you can, you can use those.
You use those things as toolsif you, if you look and
understand that they're there.
So I love that you encouragepeople to, you know, embrace the
(13:47):
different parts of themselvesthat maybe in some context, we
feel aren't the greatest partsof ourselves, and make them
become our champions.
Does that make sense?
Speaker 2 (13:57):
Yeah, or be part of the team.
Speaker 1 (13:59):
Yeah, exactly, I love that Be part of the team.
Speaker 2 (14:02):
It's really individual.
Some, you know, each person hasdifferent parts and some could
be great, as as the champions,and others are just a good
support, but that is of course,very individual.
But you asked about the brickwall metaphor yes, yes.
I love, I love, I love thatyou're asking me about that and
I also realized that in thebeginning you said, oh, the
brick wall of confidence canalso be something good.
(14:23):
So in this case, the and youare right, actually, because we
are meant to build a foundationin this, I have the brick wall
as a metaphor of things that areobstacles in our way.
So basically, what happens is,let's imagine we are speaking
and you're going to love thisexample, because I'm going to
take the public speaking exampleactually.
So let's say you said earlier,the child sings and thinks it's
(14:47):
great and has lots of fun, it'sreally noisy.
And then, of course, peoplemight say, oh, can you stop?
It's too loud, it's uh, I don'twant to hear, this is uh.
Or maybe people say unkind, Ithink maybe siblings say unkind,
I think, whatever it is, thischild suddenly gets this idea oh
, I'm a bad singer, my voiceisn't nice.
So they feel oh, and then theystop singing and they feel shame
(15:11):
deep somewhere, some.
Maybe something happened.
They were singing on achristmas, whatever, it can be
very banal, it can be verymundane, it can be something
more traumatic, but somethinghappened and they bury this
shame about their voice and thatis underground and we don't
want to feel shame.
(15:31):
Like I said, the shadow stuff,shame, anger, jealousy, all of
those feelings greed, sloth, allthose, really, I mean they.
I've googled how many basefeelings some people's only
eight, some people say it's 28.
I think the average westernperson can identify three
(15:52):
feelings, which is sad, mad andglad, which I found funny.
But of course there's all thesemore feelings that I'm saying
in inverted commas, uglyfeelings.
So shame, let's say shame.
You bury that and then youdon't want to go there, you
don't want to get it out of theground at all because you don't
want to go there, you don't wantto get it out of the ground at
all because you don't want toface that shame at all.
And then you just start puttinga foundation stone on it, and
(16:16):
that could be in this case.
It could be I'm not enough, myvoice isn't good enough, I'm not
well, I'm not worthy.
Maybe in this case I'm notenough, I'm not worthy and I'm
not worthy.
Maybe in this case I'm notenough, I'm not worthy and I'm
not safe.
I've identified as really base,foundational, negative beliefs
(16:37):
people hold that feed intoeverything else.
So those foundation stones,let's say with the singing shame
is I'm not enough, because myvoice isn't nice and I'm not
safe when I sing because peoplewere laughing at me on stage.
So you have the foundationstones and then you give
yourself a rule for your life.
The rule is I shouldn't sing onstage and I shouldn't sing.
(16:59):
But let's say I shouldn't singon stage or speak on stage
because people will laugh andI'll be rejected and ridiculed.
So those two big stones, theyhold the shame in place and you
won't go there.
And then throughout the years,so your rule is I shouldn't sing
on stage.
And then you find more reasonswhy you shouldn't sing on stage.
(17:21):
I'm not entertaining, I'm notold enough, I'm not young enough
, I don't have dope hair, I'venot got the equipment, the
technical.
I don't have dope hair, I'vegot.
I've not got the equipment, thetechnical.
I don't have the right teacherto teach me, I don't have the
right gender or right this, thatall of those thousand other
beliefs stuck on top of that.
Building each brick by brick,is is building a big, massive
(17:44):
wall suddenly and you're likeokay, I'm not singing on stage
because I don't have rhythm, Ican't sing, my voice is creaky,
my accent is bad.
So lots of bricks there and,yeah, that is basically the
brick wall metaphor, keepingburied feelings really nicely
locked in place by rude beliefslike I'm not safe, I'm not
(18:09):
worthy, I'm not safe, I'm notworthy, I'm not enough.
And then, on top, lots oflittle reasons why logical, in
inverted commas, logical reasonswhy I shouldn't sing.
Speaker 1 (18:18):
I can't sing oh my goodness, yeah, that's how it
starts.
It's like funny, you're sayingall this, you know, and, and you
I bet everyone who's listeninghas been like, oh okay, I can
come up with my own examples.
Some will literally be singing,others will be.
You know, the first time theytried to tell a joke or
(18:41):
something, right, and someonesaid you're not funny.
And for the rest of their daysthey were like I'm not funny or
I'm not pretty or I'm notwhatever, right, and how that
can really stick with us forever.
And you know, I'm almost 50years old, right, and some some
things that I'm working on islike bull caca I kind of want to
(19:05):
swear, but from like, when Iwas little, it's so amazing to
me that so much power can staywith us.
It can follow us like a currentfor the rest of our days.
So, after identifying ourlimiting beliefs, do you
recommend proving them wrong?
How does this process work andwhat strategies do you suggest
(19:27):
for challenging negative thoughtpatterns effectively?
Speaker 2 (19:32):
Yeah.
So I think the first step wouldbe just take each brick out.
So I call that, or the therapyindustry calls it, cognitive
restructuring.
That means you're disputing thebeliefs, you're disproving the
beliefs.
So you could say, for, forexample, you say people laugh at
(19:52):
me when I tell a joke.
Is this always the case?
Maybe one time people laughed,so actually the belief that
you're holding people laugh atme is not true.
So you would just try todisprove all the beliefs.
Who taught?
Who taught me this belief is?
Is this, like I said already,the objective truth, or is it?
Maybe sometimes it doesn'tapply.
(20:15):
Is my voice objectively reallyreally bad or is it just
something that's in my head?
And do people hear medifferently?
And you can ask a lot ofquestions to disprove the belief
.
Or you say I'm too old to singon stage.
(20:35):
Maybe there's people my age whoare actually really successful
at singing.
So all of these can be quiteeasily disproved.
There might be still resistance.
So if you're listening and youhave the singing example and
it's a common one you may notdislodge them immediately.
You may not say oh yeah, gwen,you're right.
Actually this person is areally successful singer at at
(20:57):
my age I should also have achance.
So, because the buried emotionsare still underneath.
But what we, what we do, isreally just talk through it and
ask a number of questions thatwill help you distance.
Or, for example, I had for thisis a bit different about
business I had oh, I can't run asuccessful business because I'm
(21:19):
a mom.
That's that was really in me.
Or oh, I can't run a successful, I can't make 10k months
consistently because I might getsick.
Those kind of people tellingthemselves that you could
disprove because there's lots ofmoms making lots of cash.
Yeah, it has nothing to do.
(21:39):
It might be harder Look, I'mbringing in limiting beliefs
because it's so ingrained for mebut it may not even be harder.
Maybe they have an easier timethan somebody having another
problem or another lifesituation.
That is difficult, that youknow.
You see my my, oh, I'm thinkingabout this.
Speaker 1 (21:57):
Yeah, so just talking , yeah so I just I didn't mean
to interrupt, so I apologize, um, but uh.
So I was having a conversationwith my husband about some kind
of limiting belief and wetracked it back to its origin,
like to its source, right, andit was so funny.
(22:17):
He said I don't understand whya person who affects us so young
, as a child, and then as anadult, you're like they are
complete freaking bananas,they're bozos, they don't have
their life in order, likenothing, right, and but you
(22:38):
still give that bozo power overyou because of the thing they
said to you once, right?
Do you ever notice that whenpeople start looking at where
their stuff came from, yeah,that they're like why?
Why is this person who is notthe person I want to be, or like
(23:00):
I don't want to be like thatperson at all.
I don't want to live that way,like?
Speaker 2 (23:04):
why did I?
Speaker 1 (23:05):
let their comment on my behavior or looks or whatever
, right, like why do I bringthat in?
Like how, how can we encouragepeople to be like look at the
source?
Or is that just what you do?
Speaker 2 (23:26):
Look at the source.
No, no, you're right.
It's the best, of course, ifyou can trace it back and say
how did I come to this belief?
And what I want to say, though,is it back and say how did I
come to this belief?
And what I want to say, though,is it's good to ask why and be
shocked, but also to acknowledgethat and to forgive ourselves
for believing that, because,obviously, the human mind is we
don't.
The mind doesn't want to think,or the soul doesn't want to
feel.
Oh my god, I did this wrong.
I'm really stupid.
And then the new thing comes,beating themselves up.
(23:49):
But what is important to alsosee that often it's a survival
mechanism where you aredependent on this person or
these are you really good littlegang in the neighborhood and
they what they say, is importantbecause, ultimately, we are
tribal beings.
We don't want to be cast out.
So what we do is yes, you wereright.
Yes, I'm going to change myself.
Speaker 1 (24:10):
It depends.
Wow, I love that.
The tribal beings connectionbecause I think I forget in the
world that we live in?
Yeah, that we really need eachother.
Speaker 2 (24:20):
Yes, totally, Totally , and that's why I think we need
to really have that compassionOnce we've picked up something
and just have compassion, andthen the subconscious will know
it can tell us more.
It doesn't need to because itwon't be told off.
But yeah, I'm shocked to when Ithink back.
I've just thought back at somethings that I like whatever,
(24:42):
some little high school bulliesor what, they don't matter at
all, but it has, it affects youand it can shape you and it
doesn't have to.
Sometimes people are in asituation where they've got such
a good fallback circle ofpeople and they have such a full
life that it doesn't affectthem.
So it's not a given that ifsomebody gets a negative comment
(25:03):
as a growing up person, that itwill affect them, but it can.
Speaker 1 (25:08):
Yeah, absolutely.
I love that.
So, moving beyond the thinkingprocess, you talk about
uncovering and acknowledging theunderlying emotions tied to
limiting beliefs.
Why is accessing thesubconscious important and how
can individuals effectivelynavigate their emotions in this
(25:28):
process?
Because I think this isprobably where a lot of people
like have a little freak outright.
They're like, oh, oh, my gosh,that's always been there.
Like do I do that?
You know what I mean?
Like is this my defensivemechanism?
Like that's not good.
Like how do we, how do we,navigate emotions in this
(25:49):
process?
Speaker 2 (25:50):
Yeah, the subcon I.
I mean it is my favorite topic.
It's also on my website, my.
My biggest term people searchfor is how real quick.
Speaker 1 (25:57):
How can people find your website?
Speaker 2 (25:59):
oh yeah, oh yeah, it's gwendy kleezer, it's.
I'm gonna spell it out because,yes, please do E-N-D-I-K-L-I-S
for Sahara Acom.
Perfect, that's my website.
So yeah, on that people, themost common search term is how
do I access my subconscious?
(26:19):
So it's a popular question.
I love doing it.
Actually, as kids we've alreadyplayed being unconscious
Somehow somebody I meanobviously it never worked was
probably.
We tried to breathe in acertain way.
I don't know how we there wasno social media to show us, but
it didn't work, but we were.
We wanted to do it for sure.
That's the first thing, and thesecond thing is subconscious.
(26:41):
It can really quieten people.
I was recently at a talk herein London about dreaming and I
said I'm going to challengemyself and ask a question was a
big hall full of 500 people.
So I did ask and there werelike three psychologists,
psychiatrists, at the front andI said what is the connection
between dreaming and thesubconscious?
(27:02):
and they were silent they didn'tknow what to say, because
obviously the subconscious mypoint is not every psychologist
or person working in health willsay yeah, that's a thing.
Personally, I believe in it.
I think memories get storedsomewhere.
Dreams come from somewhere.
We have collective.
If I do a special pose, peoplewill know this is threatening,
(27:25):
this is kind, this is so.
That is what I speak about whenI say subconscious.
So as humans, we have astorehouse that's given to us,
that we pass on, that we can allaccess when.
If we want to, we don't have to, but we can.
And if we don't, it might comein dreams or in.
If you people do a Freudianslip when they say something
wrong accidentally.
Speaker 1 (27:48):
Wow, I was just thinking, you know, when you
said the subconscious beingpassed on and everything.
It's really interesting becauseI know in early childhood
development studies they've donestudies where children will,
where infants, very youngtoddlers will react to body
language in cues that don't havewords, that don't have sound,
(28:12):
and they will react.
And it's a primal reaction,it's something, it's like a
protective mechanism.
So do you feel that thesubconscious also like really
works to protect us and kind ofkeep us alive, you know as
primal beings, or is that justlike something silly that I'm
thinking about?
Speaker 2 (28:32):
I think the instincts also play into it, now that
you're saying it, because Ithink even dogs can understand
if I have an angry face or ahappy face.
So I guess mammals have havethat kind of knowledge.
But the subconscious definitelydoes it protect us?
I think it's, it can.
It's just like a big I don'twant to call it a dump, but a
(28:54):
storehouse of experience.
Speaker 1 (28:57):
So in that, way, yeah , storage room.
Speaker 2 (29:01):
Mine's the size of a warehouse, someone else's maybe
a closet, I don't know yeah, no,no, and we all I mean some
people I love this metaphor andthen we all have somewhere in
there.
It's a bridge to the universesomewhere.
So I think we can.
There is something thatconnects us all.
I really believe that.
(29:21):
I find it fascinating.
And, yeah, so, the subconscious.
But when you were asking aboutthe emotions and so on, so why
we need to get in line withthese emotions?
Because when earlier, when I umexplained the how to um dispute
the all the thoughts I'm too old, I'm too young, yes, somebody
else who's 17 has done this, andso on, that might be all
(29:45):
logical reason yeah, okay, I getit, I get it.
Some other mom has made money,some other person has climbed
this mountain.
That's cool, but still, theemotion underneath it all
doesn't believe it.
So that's why we need to gointo the subconscious, because
we can't fix with the thinkingpart of our brain, we can't fix
the emotions.
The emotions need to be fixedwith the tribal, the primal, the
(30:10):
everything that's in there, andthere's, yeah, that, for
example, the plants, even plants.
Let me just I think I'mdigressing a bit too much too
far into the next topic that Iwant to speak about, how we
process through these emotions,but basically the emotions in
the subconscious, they need tobe called or named.
(30:32):
So, like I said, in thisexample, with the public
speaking, the shame Okay there'sshame.
Let's just call it that.
It's okay, everybody has it.
It has come from, maybe fromthis or that, and now I want to
deal with it.
So, yeah, that basically.
So we have that emotion, andthen I guess the next thing is
how can we process through it?
Speaker 1 (30:53):
Yeah, yeah.
So once the negative emotionsare processed, how do you
suggest filling the void with,you know, positive beliefs and
emotions?
Is it really a matter ofchanging how we speak to
ourselves?
Like I always say to ourstudents when I'm talking about
like confidence and gettingtheir businesses started and
stuff, and you know I'm like,hey, you know, you don't need to
(31:17):
shit, talk yourself right, likeyou don't need to take that
from other people, because whenpush comes to shove right, I
don't care where you are out inthe world.
No one can be as mean to you asyou, right?
Speaker 2 (31:33):
So how do we like help?
Speaker 1 (31:34):
people how do you help people like.
Reinforce these new andempowering beliefs.
Speaker 2 (31:40):
Yeah, yeah, let's go, though I want to cycle back a
little bit to the processingagain.
Yeah, because also.
So what I was?
I guess I was digressing a bit,but what I wanted to say is
that so we have this emotion andthere's a few ways the
subconscious will understand.
So that can be withhypnotherapy, it can be with
dream work, it can be withmovement, just going for a walk
(32:04):
or a voice, using your voice,sounding, shouting in the wind.
So once you have this emotionart therapy or just doing art,
scribbling, just like that,letting the body, so it can be
really something people callrage, dancing.
So do all the things that arebased on the senses, the, the,
the smell you could do, the, thevoice, feeling, all all of
(32:30):
those will help access thesubconscious.
And what I sometimes like to dowhen, for example, gardening, I
don't know I also think plantsmaybe probably help with the
subconscious in a way.
Even in a really easy example,I've got a.
I had a, lots of hedges, hedgeseverywhere, and I had to take
them out and I thought, oh,these are digging up my limiting
(32:52):
beliefs and it felt really good.
So I had all these piles ofeverything and it was good to
take it away to the dump, andeven in kind of work symbols, I
guess that was for me a symboland I've just said this is a
symbol now for my limitingbeliefs.
I'm getting them out.
So basically, the subconsciousspeaks in metaphors, symbols and
(33:13):
anything that's body-based andI would say nature is part of
that as well.
So that's how you could process.
If you want to processsomething, process it through
that.
Not only most people wouldjournal if they do it, but that
again it's just the brain work,but anything like breath work or
a good jog or rage dancing,that will help you get it out.
(33:37):
I'm a big swimmer with thatkind of stuff.
Speaker 1 (33:42):
I get in and I swim and you know I can be mad and I
you know I rage swim.
I spent most of COVID rageswimming.
You know, I mean, I was uh 12hours from my children who were
grown and I couldn't see them.
So you know, I was rageswimming big time.
So I think that it's good thatyou I'm going to have to check
(34:05):
out rage dancing and get somemusic on.
And you know, I think that'sthat sounds like my new sport
rage swimming, rage dancing.
I'm going to the rage Olympics,so I love that yes it helps it's
and, yeah, that.
Speaker 2 (34:20):
Anyway, I wanted to encourage anyone who has
discovered this emotion, findways to process through it and
again, on my website, I'vewritten blogs about it.
But this is the way to, yeah,to to get get it out of your
system.
And then what you were askingin the next step, or the almost
last step, is okay, I've createdthis vacuum.
I've released the all the, theemotions that were charged so so
(34:47):
high that they were giving meso much pressure, and I've
released the thinking, and, ofcourse, I'm never expecting that
everything is cleared andcompletely cleansed, because
this is always.
We're humans, you know, we arealways feeling a little bit of
all this isn't good, but then,immediately when you catch
yourself, ok, no, I'm rephrasingthis how can I learn, how can I
(35:09):
do it better?
How is this?
Maybe not a big deal, and so on, but the next step is to, to
build the new persona, and Ireally feel that embodying is
important.
So, let's say, the person whowants to present to the group,
really in a relaxed manner, atease, and in a way that
everybody learns and takes onthe new persona of what would
(35:33):
this person do?
If they were this person whodoes this.
What would this person do ifthey were this person who does
this?
So they would probably reallyfocus on the audience as well
and take in their feedback andnot try to be only right and not
make a mistake.
They would just be very open tothe exchange and passionate and
just leaning into the feelingof I love this topic and I want
(35:55):
to tell everybody about it.
So that's how you could leaninto in a behavior way.
Or you say, oh, I want to makemy 10K consistent month.
What does this person do?
They probably work slightlydifferently than you are at the
moment.
So you could look at that andembody that and say this person
would make a sales call and bereally happy about the sales
(36:16):
call and say, listen, I'moffering something good to
someone and that's great.
If they want it, they can haveit.
If they don't need it, that'sabsolutely cool.
Maybe they want it soon, inthree months, maybe never.
So get into that person.
And how do we do that?
Firstly by, I guess, gettingreally in the thinking about it,
to saying, yeah, this personwould try to learn from
(36:38):
experiences, would try to bepositive and see that and so on.
And also I would recommendchange your environment a bit.
How would this person live?
Maybe it's time for a decluttera little bit.
I mean I don't want to go intothese always cliched topics, but
maybe that person makes theirbed every morning, even things
(36:58):
like that.
I mean, this is tiny, but itsends a signal to the
subconscious again, because you,you realize that subconscious
notices I'm tidying this up, I'mtaking care of my environment,
taking care of my files or my,my workbook, that I'm writing
and I like.
Also in terms of plants, ofcourse, it's probably nice to
have nice scents of plants ornice just having, I don't know.
(37:22):
I feel I love plants.
Actually I'm just sitting herelooking at my balcony plants.
But so embody the whole thing.
Use your five senses again.
Maybe a perfume will remind you.
Maybe you can even take alittle talisman, and I'm a
person.
For example, if I have thisring here, I say, well, this is
now my ring.
That embodies this.
(37:42):
If I ever lose the ring, youknow, I know for myself, I can
take another object and givethat the power.
Speaker 1 (37:49):
So you're talking like anchoring, like helping
people anchor.
I love that.
I do that.
So I do that myself, like Ieven have positive affirmations
written on my mirror at times,or I always you know, I always
have certain things with me,just I don't know.
(38:09):
It just helps me feel groundedIf I feel out of sorts or
whatever I know I have, likesome you know, I have like a
rock in my purse that like I Ikeep one of my kids gave me when
they were like two.
You know it doesn't have to beanything like spectacular, but
I'm a believer in anchoring andI'm a believer in decluttering
(38:30):
too, and you know it's easy forherbalists to get cluttered
space.
We need jars and herbs andcontainers and notebooks, and so
I really I really think that Ilove that you brought up
decluttering, because I thinkthat that's really a good place,
like because my profession canbe so cluttered.
I probably have like 35notebooks stacked on my desk and
(38:52):
not a joke.
So I totally I actually have aeight foot long dining room
table as my desk because I needI need to have space around me
and not have it be cluttered, soI love that you say that.
So where can people learn moreand work with you or, you know,
(39:17):
connect with things that you'reoffering?
Like, how can we, you know, howcan people find you?
I know you gave out your URL,so I'm gonna ask you to do that
again, but like, just how canpeople, where can they get to
you?
Speaker 2 (39:30):
Yeah, so my website for sure, because I blog on
there and I share quite a lot.
So that's GwendyKlisacom,g-w-e-n-d-i-k-l-i-s-acom, and
thank you for asking.
By the way, I'm always veryhappy to, of course, share and
help people and connect withpeople, so reach out to me
(39:52):
anyone if you have questions,and I'm on Instagram,
gwendyklisa.
And I've got a new thing alimiting beliefs blaster.
It's a free mini course where,yeah, I guess I take you through
to on a more detailed levelabout what I've spoken about
today and that you can find atthe moment.
(40:12):
It's on a link at bitly forwardslash, at bitly forward slash,
and then with a capital limitingnext word, saying no spaces
believes, also with a capital,and then blaster with a capital,
again bit.
I love that, but so that if yousign up there you will get it.
(40:34):
At the moment it's an emailformat email every few days with
the next step and yeah, I golike quite into detail as one
change one belief and then goand let's do that kind of thing
I love that it comes via email,because it's like it really
takes no effort.
Speaker 1 (40:52):
You open everybody opens their email on their phone
, like like you know on theircommute, or you know in the
morning when they're havingtheir tea or their coffee or
whatever, and it's like it's soeasy when things come via email.
I love when I can just likeenjoy a quick email and I can
say, okay, I'm going to savethis in a folder because I'm
(41:12):
coming back to it.
Or you know, okay, I got what Ineeded from it.
I love that.
I love that that's available topeople.
I think it's really cool thatyou're offering you know it's
this free course.
I, you know, I am a bigbeliever um, that you would
definitely be worth paying for.
So, yes, it is.
Speaker 2 (41:34):
I mean, I gotta be honest, it definitely is, but I
like to make it availablebecause it will help people and
it does help people.
It's part of what I do with myclients and I want it to be out
there because I hear so often Ido it myself, but if you pay
attention or everybody listeningnext time you're speaking to
(41:56):
someone, pay attention when theysay I can't, this is too I
can't and so on, all these kindof things they're saying why
something that can't dosomething, and then just listen
out to that because we do thatall the time.
So, yeah, I would.
I don't want people to fallinto that trap anymore,
basically.
So I love that.
So, yeah, I am really happy.
Speaker 1 (42:19):
Thank you so much to be on this podcast, demetria oh
well, thank you so much forbeing here and I just I really
appreciate your time andeveryone.
I'm gonna also have the linksin the bio um for the podcast,
so you'll be able to connectwith any links.
You.
You guys know that you can alsoemail me always and I can send
(42:41):
you any links that you've heardon the show.
We'll also, when the podcastcomes out, we'll have all the
information on our Facebook pagetoo, so people can go over
there when you hear this andfind any of the links that you
need.
So thank you so much for beingon the podcast.
I really appreciate it.
I've had so much fun with youtoday and I've learned so much.
(43:02):
So thank you, thank you, thankyou Same.
Thank you, demetria.
Okay, bye-bye.
Speaker 2 (43:08):
Bye.
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